Joe Thomas 2.0

[37!ws]

I remember Rev. Bob's discussion about the "discovery" that Scott Bennett could play an instrument...

And I also find it odd that it was during a tour that it was discovered because he's credited as a MUSICIAN in the Imagination liner notes!

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I'm with you here. But can't forget that at the time one of the reasons for fans' backslashing the album were Brian's stacked backing vocals. He hasn't done it since, except for the hidden track on TLOS. I conclude: Brian obviously reads this board.

Brian's vocals are stacked on most of the TLOS "demos", which is part of the reason why I find them more endearing than the finished product.

[endofposts]

Brian didn't really produce it and wasn't even around for a lot of the mix-downs.

The first part of your sentence has been said of every one of Brian's solo albums. So I have no idea why it would be more or less true for GIOMH. Do you have any specific reason to believe it here?

As for mixing, I think that's a red herring. Brian hasn't been involved in the mixing stage of several of his albums -- and given that he can't even hear stereo properly, he's not a good person to do it anyway.

This is why I think he must have had a good amount of influence over post-production (mixing in particular) on Gettin' In Over My Head... the mix is pretty mono-sounding for much of the album. Unfortunately, as you said, Brian is not the ideal person to mix his own material. This is the case with most artists, whether they hear in mono or stereo.

The fact that people doubt Brian's involvement in his own records has to do in part with the collaborators he surrounds himself with. Brian has always been a consummate collaborator, with isolated incidents of nearly pure auterism (Love You, for one example). I always enjoy the fact that Brian highlights the contributions of others, such as on the Pet Sounds box set. Many people think that the whole album is genius Brian Wilson pulling all the strings, but the brilliant musicians Had quite a lot of input, as we hear in those sessions.

The reverse seems to be true for many of the solo albums where people suspect Brian isn't doing anything but singing. The staged studio shots from his DVDs do little to dispell this notion.

Brian wasn't involved in the final mixdown on GIOMH, according to what I was told (can't say anything beyond that), and they should have thought more about who they picked to do it.  Although I'm not sure the mix is really the main problem with the album. I guess some people like it, but I don't care for it. Brian's lead vocals aren't very good on most of it, though his harmonies are okay.

[b00ts]

Brian didn't really produce it and wasn't even around for a lot of the mix-downs.

The first part of your sentence has been said of every one of Brian's solo albums. So I have no idea why it would be more or less true for GIOMH. Do you have any specific reason to believe it here?

As for mixing, I think that's a red herring. Brian hasn't been involved in the mixing stage of several of his albums -- and given that he can't even hear stereo properly, he's not a good person to do it anyway.

This is why I think he must have had a good amount of influence over post-production (mixing in particular) on Gettin' In Over My Head... the mix is pretty mono-sounding for much of the album. Unfortunately, as you said, Brian is not the ideal person to mix his own material. This is the case with most artists, whether they hear in mono or stereo.

The fact that people doubt Brian's involvement in his own records has to do in part with the collaborators he surrounds himself with. Brian has always been a consummate collaborator, with isolated incidents of nearly pure auterism (Love You, for one example). I always enjoy the fact that Brian highlights the contributions of others, such as on the Pet Sounds box set. Many people think that the whole album is genius Brian Wilson pulling all the strings, but the brilliant musicians Had quite a lot of input, as we hear in those sessions.

The reverse seems to be true for many of the solo albums where people suspect Brian isn't doing anything but singing. The staged studio shots from his DVDs do little to dispell this notion.

Brian wasn't involved in the final mixdown on GIOMH, according to what I was told (can't say anything beyond that), and they should have thought more about who they picked to do it.  Although I'm not sure the mix is really the main problem with the album. I guess some people like it, but I don't care for it. Brian's lead vocals aren't very good on most of it, though his harmonies are okay.

Interesting. Thanks, McG. The mix is certainly flat and lifeless, but I agree that if the album had better lead vocal performances, it would have come across as a much better piece of work.

[37!ws]

My problem with GIOMH isn't so much the mixing; I can take or leave the mixing job on that one...my real problem with it: 1) I'm praying and praying that "The Waltz" is just a put-on, but I fear that it's not; and 2) the songs are just TOO FREAKIN' LONG. Mainly in the instrumental breaks. Just cut a little bit out of each and I think overall it'd be a better album.

Oh....and the dependency on guest artists. Too many. And I'm still convinced that all McCartney did was sit down at his Mac, record himself singing one line of "A friend like youuuu" and e-mailed it to Brian, who then just dropped it into GarageBand where appropriate.

[Wirestone]

But, I think Joe Thomas was brought back, not because of Imagination, but because of....drum roll...Stars And Stripes. Yes, Stars And Stripes, the album, wasn't the most popular release for fans like us, but, the project did have some redeeming qualities. With Joe running the show, the guys DID work together. They appeared on TV. Did a few shows together to promote the record. And, they appeared to be happy. Regardless of the chosen country artists, the song selections, and Joe's backing track production, THE GUYS SOUNDED GREAT! And, that's what Capitol Records wanted for this reunion. For the group to be happy and to SOUND great. I can almost picture a Capitol Records executive saying to Joe, "Remember what you did with the Stars And Stripes project. We want you to do THAT with this project..." So far, I think things worked out pretty well.

Fabulous post. And right on, I think. From the beginning, this has been one of my main thoughts about Joe coming back. It didn't make sense in terms of a BW solo record -- he and the band know how to make those -- but it certainly has some logic for the Beach Boys.

2) the songs are just TOO FREAKIN' LONG. Mainly in the instrumental breaks. Just cut a little bit out of each and I think overall it'd be a better album.

Try the album itself, too. It's like 53 minutes! Way too long for something with so many mid-tempo numbers.

Brian wasn't involved in the final mixdown on GIOMH, according to what I was told (can't say anything beyond that), and they should have thought more about who they picked to do it.

Not sure why a deal is made about this, given that Brian isn't credited with mixing the album in the first place. Mark L. is credited with the mixing, although it's been suggested that Melinda had a hand in it.

Whatever the case, the mix is certainly not great -- everything louder than everything else, and not a lot of subtlety anywhere.

[endofposts]

Don't forget the bass harmonica.  There's more than one song with that on it, as I recall.  It makes me think of the background music on "Green Acres."  .  Paul Mertens is good, but he was overused on GIOMH in general.

[Ron]

You know there's bass harmonica on the new bb album too, right?

[Wirestone]

Don't forget the bass harmonica.  There's more than one song with that on it, as I recall.  It makes me think of the background music on "Green Acres."  .  Paul Mertens is good, but he was overused on GIOMH in general.

It seems like a lot of the album was tracked with Scott, too ... it's the first time they collaborated (on City Blues), and probably built the trust that allowed TLOS to happen.

[endofposts]

You know there's bass harmonica on the new bb album too, right?

It depends on how it's used.  It sounded fine on "Pet Sounds" on "I Know There's An Answer," but it's not something that can be applied to all songs, at least not prominently.  The young Brian had a knack for using unusual instruments or combinations in ways that made sense or didn't draw attention to themselves.  In some later uses on Brian's solo work, it's like a self-conscious imitation of Brian's old production style instead of fitting in naturally.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

He hasn't done it since, except for the hidden track on TLOS.

What hidden track?

[Autotune]

Don't forget the bass harmonica.  There's more than one song with that on it, as I recall.  It makes me think of the background music on "Green Acres."  .  Paul Mertens is good, but he was overused on GIOMH in general.

It seems like a lot of the album was tracked with Scott, too ... it's the first time they collaborated (on City Blues), and probably built the trust that allowed TLOS to happen.

City Blues is like California Feelin' in a way: great songs that weren't properly produced as recordings. They're ok but could have been great. Missed opportunities.

[Rocker]

You know there's bass harmonica on the new bb album too, right?

It depends on how it's used.  It sounded fine on "Pet Sounds" on "I Know There's An Answer," but it's not something that can be applied to all songs, at least not prominently.  The young Brian had a knack for using unusual instruments or combinations in ways that made sense or didn't draw attention to themselves.  In some later uses on Brian's solo work, it's like a self-conscious imitation of Brian's old production style instead of fitting in naturally.

Just today I thought abut that topic. I agree with you

[Wirestone]

He hasn't done it since, except for the hidden track on TLOS.

What hidden track?

At the very end, there's a snippet of a wall of Brians singing a little variation of the title song.

And actually, there's a wall of Brians on the opening and closing tracks of the Gershwin record (Rhapsody in Blue and reprise).

You know there's bass harmonica on the new bb album too, right?

It depends on how it's used.  It sounded fine on "Pet Sounds" on "I Know There's An Answer," but it's not something that can be applied to all songs, at least not prominently.  The young Brian had a knack for using unusual instruments or combinations in ways that made sense or didn't draw attention to themselves.  In some later uses on Brian's solo work, it's like a self-conscious imitation of Brian's old production style instead of fitting in naturally.

BW has a particular love for a deep, buzzy bass sound, though. It's on a lot of his records, old and new. Sometimes its a baritone sax, sometimes a bass harmonica, sometimes a Moog. But he's used it enough in various eras that I think it's something he just really likes -- and with Paul in the band, it's always an option (including times when it probably shouldn't be!  )

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

At the very end, there's a snippet of a wall of Brians singing a little variation of the title song.

*runs to cd shelf*

Holy sh*t... I've never let it run all the way through in the years I've owned it.

[hypehat]

At the very end, there's a snippet of a wall of Brians singing a little variation of the title song.

*runs to cd shelf*

Holy sh*t... I've never let it run all the way through in the years I've owned it.

Me neither, until I picked up the vinyl this year.... and I bought the sodding thing in 08! 

[Ron]

At the very end, there's a snippet of a wall of Brians singing a little variation of the title song.

*runs to cd shelf*

Holy sh*t... I've never let it run all the way through in the years I've owned it.

I think that's probably the demo, based on the wall of Brians doing it.  The band used to do it on tour, too... they'd play a greatest hits set, and do that little variation in the middle of it as a tease, then after intermission play the album. 

[Autotune]

He hasn't done it since, except for the hidden track on TLOS.

What hidden track?

At the very end, there's a snippet of a wall of Brians singing a little variation of the title song.

And actually, there's a wall of Brians on the opening and closing tracks of the Gershwin record (Rhapsody in Blue and reprise).

You know there's bass harmonica on the new bb album too, right?

It depends on how it's used.  It sounded fine on "Pet Sounds" on "I Know There's An Answer," but it's not something that can be applied to all songs, at least not prominently.  The young Brian had a knack for using unusual instruments or combinations in ways that made sense or didn't draw attention to themselves.  In some later uses on Brian's solo work, it's like a self-conscious imitation of Brian's old production style instead of fitting in naturally.

BW has a particular love for a deep, buzzy bass sound, though. It's on a lot of his records, old and new. Sometimes its a baritone sax, sometimes a bass harmonica, sometimes a Moog. But he's used it enough in various eras that I think it's something he just really likes -- and with Paul in the band, it's always an option (including times when it probably shouldn't be!  )

Brian's preference for bass sounds is not unlike Giuseppe Verdi's, who favored the buzzy and edgy cimbasso over the dark tuba in his orchestrations.

You're right about the BWRG opening wall-of-Brians. When done properly, it makes up for the lack of Beach Boys voices more than his or any band IMO.

[Ron]

The greatest, sturdiest, tallest, thickest, most formidable wall of Brian ever was the beautiful middle 8 of "Love and Mercy".  It sounds like GOD sang it.

[Chris Brown]

The greatest, sturdiest, tallest, thickest, most formidable wall of Brian ever was the beautiful middle 8 of "Love and Mercy".  It sounds like GOD sang it.

Yeah, that part always gives me chills - I'm always bummed when they cut it from the live versions.

I typically love "wall-of-Brian" harmonies, although on GIOMH you could tell his heart wasn't in them.  But on BW88 and Imagination, they sound awesome.  He sounds strong, confident, and nobody sings a better falsetto vocal than Brian, even into his 40's and 50's. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the band vocals too, but I wish he'd still do a few "wall-of-Brian" tracks on his solo albums. 

[Landlocked]

The greatest, sturdiest, tallest, thickest, most formidable wall of Brian ever was the beautiful middle 8 of "Love and Mercy".  It sounds like GOD sang it.

I haven't listened to L&M in a while, but with a plug like that, I had to go back and check for it. Oh. My. Brian. That's incredible. I'm going to have to make a 10 hour loop of just that incredible section and drift off into a trance-like state, drooling on myself in obsessed fanaticism.

[Too Much Sugar]

The greatest, sturdiest, tallest, thickest, most formidable wall of Brian ever was the beautiful middle 8 of "Love and Mercy".  It sounds like GOD sang it.

It's funny, I was listening to "Brian Wilson", today, and I was really stuck on that part.  One of the best post-1975 Brian moments, period, and one the best wall of Brian's, as well.  I also always loved how that section ends at a slightly unusual place, chord wise.  It's really great songwriting.

Though it always cracks me up how, after that magical, majestic part, you're then suddenly jolted by the loud and cartoonish "HEY!!"

[Lonely Summer]

Personally, I loved the "stack of Brian's" on BW88, OCA and Imagination. GIOMH was easily the weakest BW solo album to that point in his career. I'd loved absolutely everything up to that point - wasn't bothered by the AC sound of Imagination, it sounded exactly like what I expected from and older Brian. Loved the 88 album when it came out, played it endlessly, seemed like an eternity between that and the two 1995 albums, and I quickly fell in love with both of them, too. When GIOMH came out, I played it several times, but it never "hit" me. Nice, pleasant, but very little 'magic". And then BWPS came out, and everyone forgot about GIOMH. Didn't expect to like the Xmas album, but I did. But I would say the jewel of Brian's solo career is TLOS. If that ends up being his last album of newly written songs, I can be okay with it.

[Ron]

The greatest, sturdiest, tallest, thickest, most formidable wall of Brian ever was the beautiful middle 8 of "Love and Mercy".  It sounds like GOD sang it.

It's funny, I was listening to "Brian Wilson", today, and I was really stuck on that part.  One of the best post-1975 Brian moments, period, and one the best wall of Brian's, as well.  I also always loved how that section ends at a slightly unusual place, chord wise.  It's really great songwriting.

Though it always cracks me up how, after that magical, majestic part, you're then suddenly jolted by the loud and cartoonish "HEY!!"

Brian has this strange dichotomy going on, where he writes all these beautiful and quite moody songs, but looks so happy, in a fake way, singing them.  So for instance, on Love & Mercy, that's one of the most beautiful things he ever did, it's melancholy, touching... intimate... very expressive... but his voice isn't.  His face isn't.  He looks so happy, although you know he isn't. 

...so it's fitting that he sings that beautiful part, and just when you're about to start crying, he does his "HEY!" clown act for you again, to snap you out of it. 

[Loaf]

I remember Rev. Bob's discussion about the "discovery" that Scott Bennett could play an instrument...

And I also find it odd that it was during a tour that it was discovered because he's credited as a MUSICIAN in the Imagination liner notes!

On how many songs does he play an instrument on Imagination? One, i think? Perhaps Brian wasn't even there when Scott recorded his part? How many other other musicians from that session were with Brian's tour band? When they say they discovered Scott was a 'musician' , i don't think they mean a guy who can lay down a guitar part in a pinch in the studio, but someone who can grind it out on tour.