Joe Thomas 2.0

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

I noticed today a news article stating Joe Thomas is producing a 50th Anniversary documentary for the Beach Boys.  Someone please explain why he is attached to the album and documentary.  I mean, there's any number of people Brian could have written songs with, including members of his band and the other Beach Boys.  So why Joe Thomas?  Did Brian not have any new songs to add to the project, and the only old songs he had were IMAGINATION leftovers?  Since there was supposed to be a Stars And Stripes Part 2, did the Boys owe Thomas another album?  What's going on?

[cablegeddon]

Hey I've only been a BW-fan for a few months but if I ever saw a rip-off artist.......

[Runaways]

quick someone give him a justice league comic and don't let him see the songwriting credits!!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Well, the mob connection idea was touted around for awhile, but it's main proponent mysteriously vanished. Others cite Melinda as to blame a catalyst in getting them back together.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Well, the mob connection idea was touted around for awhile, but it's main proponent mysteriously vanished. Others cite Melinda as to blame a catalyst in getting them back together.

Melinda IMO definitely has guided and/or manipulated Brian and his career, at least as long as they have been married.   And she appeared so enamored of the Thomases that she moved herself and Brian to Chicago to live next to them.  And then they move away and they sue Joe Thomas.    I wish I could find an interview with him online where he talks about his Brian Wilson and Beach Boys connection.

[Autotune]

Thomas is probably a safety net for the boys in the studio. He must have talents of some sort. Perhaps he is good at creating a calm atmosphere in the studio. They know him and he knows them.

[I. Spaceman]

He had material that was needed for this new album to get completed in short order. Brian isn't as prolific as he once was.

[Autotune]

Quality material, may I add.

[Runaways]

yeah Brian needed some tunes, he had some stored with JT.   I think JT contributed to production as another voice for the band to bounce stuff off, but i think that's about it.

[joe_blow]

Is there any idea out there of how much of a collaboration the Wilson/Thomas songs were. In other words, are the co writing credits more along the lines of Deirdre and Desert Drive?

[b00ts]

Thomas is probably a safety net for the boys in the studio. He must have talents of some sort. Perhaps he is good at creating a calm atmosphere in the studio. They know him and he knows them.

Yes, it seems like this is important. Joe Thomas managed to put together the last successfully finished Beach Boys album (Stars and Stripes... I forget which volume it was) and he clearly has some sort of knack for getting the guys to work together and for creating a 'safe' environment for Brian.

[Wirestone]

Brian did not need JT for the songs. He has most of an album in the can with Scott Bennett (including new a VDP collaboration) and two or three dozen Paley sessions tunes, along with other tunes written with Asher and Kalinich that haven't seen the light of day. This isn't even including the dozens of Landy-era compositions that are listed in the BMI database.

What's more, he's already released JT co-writes and co-productions on GIOMH without any involvement from Joe, so the mulleted one's presence wasn't even needed to release the material.

I think what's far more likely is that he wanted and needed someone to handle the sessions with the BBs and to keep things on track. His old band likely wouldn't have gone for his new band running things in the studio, so they would needed a mutually acceptable third party. JT is it.

Alternative theory: They got together to write some new songs for the project. They did a couple, then Brian decided he was blocked / didn't want to do anymore, so they went back to finish old material instead.

I will say, it will be interesting to see if the collaboration continues ...

[b00ts]

Brian did not need JT for the songs. He has most of an album in the can with Scott Bennett (including new a VDP collaboration) and two or three dozen Paley sessions tunes, along with other tunes written with Asher and Kalinich that haven't seen the light of day. What's more, he's already released JT co-writes and co-productions on GIOMH without any involvement from Joe, so the mulleted one's presence wasn't even needed to release the material.

I think what's far more likely is that he wanted and needed someone to handle the sessions with the BBs and to keep things on track. His old band likely wouldn't have gone for his new band running things in the studio, so they would needed a mutually acceptable third party. JT is it.

Interesting. When does the second Scott Bennett song cycle date from?

[Wirestone]

Brian did not need JT for the songs. He has most of an album in the can with Scott Bennett (including new a VDP collaboration) and two or three dozen Paley sessions tunes, along with other tunes written with Asher and Kalinich that haven't seen the light of day. What's more, he's already released JT co-writes and co-productions on GIOMH without any involvement from Joe, so the mulleted one's presence wasn't even needed to release the material.

I think what's far more likely is that he wanted and needed someone to handle the sessions with the BBs and to keep things on track. His old band likely wouldn't have gone for his new band running things in the studio, so they would needed a mutually acceptable third party. JT is it.

Interesting. When does the second Scott Bennett song cycle date from?

It's started from the same batch of material as TLOS. He wrote a lot of songs that summer. They also, IIRC, kept collaborating and recording for awhile after the initial demo sessions, so there are even more songs.

I tend to think, given the previously unheard material on this BB album, that Brian doesn't really give straight answers on songwriting anymore. He always claims that he's blocked, but somehow when he needs to have an album of originals, he manages to have more than enough material (even GIOMH has a couple of new things on it). Recycling goes on, but the number and quality of tunes on the new record suggests the archive well is deeper and better stocked than I imagined.

[37!ws]

I think the connection actually can be narrowed down to....Steve Dahl. (And I use the term "narrowed" loosely in terms of Steve.)

Steve has been a Beach Boys / BW fan as long as I can remember, and he's had Brian on his show several times over the last few decades, including with longtime (ex-)radio partner Garry Meier. Aaaand....Joe Thomas worked with Steve on a few recordings of Steve Dahl and the Dahlphins. So...Steve probably introduced the two.

[endofposts]

I'm wondering if the use of Joe Thomas co-writes, either recycled from the past or new ones, was part of getting him on board the project.  It was a bone of contention in the original Melinda Wilson lawsuit, so it could be he requested or demanded some songwriting credits on this new BB album to make up for what he didn't get on "Imagination."  I also suspect Thomas has more to do with the production of the new record than he's given credit for, but there's less money to be made on that.  As for his doing the documentary, he has compiled a list of credits as the producer of PBS "Soundstage," so he may not be off the mark with it.  It can't be that hard to put together a documentary on 50 years of the Beach Boys.  They surely aren't going to get David Leaf to do it, since he has a history of being completely biased towards Brian Wilson at the expense of the other band members.

[Wirestone]

I'm wondering if the use of Joe Thomas co-writes, either recycled from the past or new ones, was part of getting him on board the project.  It was a bone of contention in the original Melinda Wilson lawsuit, so it could be he requested or demanded some songwriting credits on this new BB album to make up for what he didn't get on "Imagination."

I wondered about this too. Although I looked at the Imagination credits, and Joe is credited on all the newly written songs except for Cry and Happy Days, neither of which he really seems to have had much to do with. I guess he could claim something on Cry, given the blues-y arrangement and jam at the end, and possibly he helped edit Happy Days together. Hard to know.

I would guess that songwriting percentages might be a bigger bone of contention, frankly. Tony Asher talked about this once -- Murry assigned him percentages for the songs that were as low at 25 or 30 percent. And I would imagine this is still true -- Brian gets more songwriting royalties for IJWMFTT than Tony does, which just seems unjust. You can certainly imagine demands that Joe take less of a publishing share. Well, now he gets his own back.

(Which is one of the reasons I was wondering how long this collaboration lasts ...)

[Wirestone]

Do any legal folks here know if it would be possible to get a copy of the original suit and countersuit between Melinda and Joe? It would be fascinating reading.

[b00ts]

Do any legal folks here know if it would be possible to get a copy of the original suit and countersuit between Melinda and Joe? It would be fascinating reading.

I am betting that it is a matter of public record. There is a lot of good info in Peter Ames Carlin's "Catch a Wave" biography, as I'm sure you're aware.

http://www.billboard.com/news/thomas-fires-legal-salvo-at-brian-wilson-950087.story#/news/thomas-fires-legal-salvo-at-brian-wilson-950087.story

Some of the info in this Billboard article could make it easier to track down the documents. It is interesting that Thomas accuses Melinda of "defaming" him to "tour personnel," and it also mentions the Japan tour. Wasn't this the tour directly after Darian complained to Melinda about Thomas' arrangements? It all seems to fit together pretty well. Perhas the "tour personnel" was Darian.

[Mark Dillon]

It would appear that Thomas is very strongly involved on writing the new tracks, since credited songwriting collaborators Jim Peterik (of Survivor "Eye of the Tiger fame) and Larry Millas are Illinois-based cronies of his. And despite what the credits might indicate, Thomas was also quite involved in the studio. In a recent interview I asked Brian what role Thomas played and he replied "co-producer."

[Wirestone]

Do any legal folks here know if it would be possible to get a copy of the original suit and countersuit between Melinda and Joe? It would be fascinating reading.

I am betting that it is a matter of public record. There is a lot of good info in Peter Ames Carlin's "Catch a Wave" biography, as I'm sure you're aware.

http://www.billboard.com/news/thomas-fires-legal-salvo-at-brian-wilson-950087.story#/news/thomas-fires-legal-salvo-at-brian-wilson-950087.story

Some of the info in this Billboard article could make it easier to track down the documents. It is interesting that Thomas accuses Melinda of "defaming" him to "tour personnel," and it also mentions the Japan tour. Wasn't this the tour directly after Darian complained to Melinda about Thomas' arrangements? It all seems to fit together pretty well. Perhas the "tour personnel" was Darian.

It's hard, though -- just because something is public record doesn't mean it's freely available online. There are a lot of lawsuits filed, and these ones never made it to trial. So I'm not sure where to begin. I'd love to read them, though.

Here is a post from the late, great Coach Bob Hanes about Joe Thomas's departure -- it's an interesting one. I saved it at the time because I figured it might come in handy down the road. And so it has.

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: BobHanes@webtv.net (Bob Hanes)
Subject: [PSML] the split between Brian and Joe

After the band was assembled for the first tour, it became painfully
obvious that Joe was "way out of his depth" musically.  As rehearsals
and then the  tour progressed.  It shown even more.  To everyone!  
When Brian and Melinda took the Californians to the airport in Chicago
after the first legs of the touring was completed,  Melinda took a band
member aside and said, "come see Brian when we return to LA, he needs to
be around musicians like you."  We knew that he and Joe don't agree about
music, and that the next recording will be different.

Joe has a tremendous fear of flying!  That's a fact!  As preparations
began for the Japanese tour, Joe kept putting off taking care of
business,  Passport etc.  Rehearsals were held in LA.  Everyone but Joe
attended.  Though he kept saying he was going to Japan.   When time to
leave arrived no Joe.  On the way to Japan my friend had to reassign
parts to cover for Joe's absence.  IT WAS ONLY AT THIS POINT THAT THE
BAND FOUND OUT SCOTT BENNETT WAS A MUSICIAN!!!    Joe had him on tour
only as a singer.  Now, come to find out this guy was REALLY talented!  
After the first shows in Japan, Brian called a meeting.  He had
something "important" "we have a problem" was all that was announced.

At the meeting Brian tried to get the band to fire Joe.  It went
something like this.  Brian: "we've really got a good thing going here!"
band:  "yeah Brian we do"  Brian:  "this is a great band'  "when we tour
the west coast Joe's gonna want to join us"  silence   Brian: "we've
really got a good thing going!  I don't think we need JOE!"
silence....finally band member: "well BRIAN whatever is best for the
music"  Brian:  "well, Joe's a good musician"  (Brian then looks at each
guy in the band hoping someone would point out that Joe played the wrong
chords on GOK and GV most of the time)  more silence.  finally BRIAN"s
friend said: "Brian you're just gonna have to listen to your heart and
do what's best for the music"  Brian: "yeah, Melinda said it was my
call.  I'll make the call!"

When the band returned to LA, prior to the west coast leg of the tour,
my friend the band member was sent to 2 or 3 Brother warehouses to
select gear to replace amplifiers, lights, musical instruments and
speakers that had been shipped back to Chicago because they "belonged"
to Joe.   The legal sh*t didn't hit the fan until after the west coast
tour.

The Roxy cd, fulfilled Brian And Joe's "two CD deal".  
Game over!  Just a lot of nasty sh*t from Joe and his  air theramine
playing DJ friend Steve.

The Right Reverend Bob, dumb angel chapel,
Church of the Harmonic Overdub

[Fro]

I tend to think, given the previously unheard material on this BB album, that Brian doesn't really give straight answers on songwriting anymore. He always claims that he's blocked, but somehow when he needs to have an album of originals, he manages to have more than enough material (even GIOMH has a couple of new things on it). Recycling goes on, but the number and quality of tunes on the new record suggests the archive well is deeper and better stocked than I imagined.

That's not a huge shock considering the length of time we're talking about here.  I'm sure Brian couldn't crank out 3 albums in a year but this has nearly been a 20-year period where he's been trying to write with various folks, and we've only gotten 3 albums of original stuff.

[egon spengler]

Do any legal folks here know if it would be possible to get a copy of the original suit and countersuit between Melinda and Joe? It would be fascinating reading.

The LA Superior Court has access to case documents online, but (unlike many state courts I've dealt with) charges a fairly steep fee--$4.75 just to search, $7.50 for the first 10 pages of any document, then $.07 per page.. Could cost upwards of $85 just to get the complaint and answer/counterclaim. My firm has an account with them, but they'd probably frown on me charging that much just for fun

If I can brag for a moment, I've seen some really awesome BB legal records through my job--settlement docs, contracts, etc. Totally worth 7 years of school and 6-figure student loan debt!

[Wirestone]

I tend to think, given the previously unheard material on this BB album, that Brian doesn't really give straight answers on songwriting anymore. He always claims that he's blocked, but somehow when he needs to have an album of originals, he manages to have more than enough material (even GIOMH has a couple of new things on it). Recycling goes on, but the number and quality of tunes on the new record suggests the archive well is deeper and better stocked than I imagined.

That's not a huge shock considering the length of time we're talking about here.  I'm sure Brian couldn't crank out 3 albums in a year but this has nearly been a 20-year period where he's been trying to write with various folks, and we've only gotten 3 albums of original stuff.

True! And, by my count, we're up to three or four (or five, if you stretch it) unreleased albums over that time. But we wouldn't have such a deep well otherwise.

[Ron]

That's pretty interesting back story on Joe getting canned, thanks Wirestone.