Brian's problem's...again

[puni puni]

The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

You'll understand when you've lived a thousand years.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Wow... that makes PERFECT sense.

I don't think so, either.  You have to remember that the Brian we see now is not the Brian that was a kid and a teenager.  I don't see the social impairment you'd expect, as Cyncie says, among other things.  There is really nothing from Brian's pre-Landy life to suggest any sort of autism, in my opinion.

[Cyncie]

The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

You'll understand when you've lived a thousand years.

Blunted affect (emotional expression) is one of the characteristics of Brian's disorder. In the BWPS interviews, Brian commented that sometimes he's smiling on the inside, but is face can't show it.

[Catbirdman]

I don't think so, either.  You have to remember that the Brian we see now is not the Brian that was a kid and a teenager.  I don't see the social impairment you'd expect, as Cyncie says, among other things.  There is really nothing from Brian's pre-Landy life to suggest any sort of autism, in my opinion.

That is so sad and so true. Something horrible happened to Brian in the Landy years. Whatever medications he was being force-fed... oh man, it just makes me so incredibly angry to think about it...

[mr_oleary]

Pick one:

1. Schizoaffective disorder
2. Manic-depressive
3. Tardive dyskinesia

As a psychologist I can say this makes the most sense to me based on my knowledge of Brian's situation.  I would also add some sort of anxiety disorder (most likely Generalized Anxiety Disorder) to account for his panic attacks and fear of touring. 

[Dave in KC]

Yah, and they kept telling us that the DON"T PANIC signboards backstage at Knebworth were not meant for Brian.

[Jaco]

And what about hearing voices (auditory hallucinations)?

Brian's life had many ups and (emotional) breakdowns, he had to deal with his father Murry, record companies, SMiLE project, the Boys, lawyers etc, and I don't know if it is interesting, but I've read somewhere about medical discoveries that hearing voices is probably caused by traumatic experiences. Guess he had a few...

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_Voices_Movement

70% of voice hearers reported that their voices had begun after a severe traumatic or intensely emotional event, such as an accident, divorce or bereavement, sexual or physical abuse, love affairs, or pregnancy. Romme et al. (1998) found that the onset of voice hearing amongst a 'patient' group was preceded by either a traumatic event or an event that activated the memory of an earlier trauma. There was a high association with abuse. These findings are being substantiated further in an on-going study with voice hearing amongst children.[9]

[Cyncie]

And what about hearing voices (auditory hallucinations)?

Brian's life had many ups and (emotional) breakdowns, he had to deal with his father Murry, record companies, SMiLE project, the Boys, lawyers etc, and I don't know if it is interesting, but I've read somewhere about medical discoveries that hearing voices is probably caused by traumatic experiences. Guess he had a few...

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_Voices_Movement

70% of voice hearers reported that their voices had begun after a severe traumatic or intensely emotional event, such as an accident, divorce or bereavement, sexual or physical abuse, love affairs, or pregnancy. Romme et al. (1998) found that the onset of voice hearing amongst a 'patient' group was preceded by either a traumatic event or an event that activated the memory of an earlier trauma. There was a high association with abuse. These findings are being substantiated further in an on-going study with voice hearing amongst children.[9]

Auditory hallucinations are also possible with the Schizoaffective Disorder diagnosis.

[runnersdialzero]

Man. Fuck the human brain.

[Mikie]

Pick one:

1. Schizoaffective disorder
2. Manic-depressive
3. Tardive dyskinesia

As a psychologist I can say this makes the most sense to me based on my knowledge of Brian's situation.  I would also add some sort of anxiety disorder (most likely Generalized Anxiety Disorder) to account for his panic attacks and fear of touring. 

Agreed.  I didn't just pull these out of my butt and post them here.  This is the real diagnosis for Brian Wilson.

[Curtis Leon]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

I severely doubt it. All autism spectrum disorders present symptoms very early on, in varying degrees of intensity. Brian's parents would've noticed something in contrast with his brothers if Brian suffered from anything of the sort. From our current understanding, Brian had a relatively normal social life growing up and played on the local football team. As well, Brian has never been shown to suffer from a lack of empathy either in his songwriting or in his personal life - quite the opposite, actually.

The real clincher against a diagnosis like this, however, would be down to his voice. Those diagnosed with Asperger's almost always suffer from blunted speech, inability to control pitch and loudness to a certain point, strange intonation and so forth. Brian's voice has never shown any of these signs, even after the drug excesses of the 70s and Landy's medication regimen. If he did indeed suffer from Asperger's, it would've been almost impossible for him to sing with such vocal control and precision as he did during the 60's, not to mention the sheer beauty of the tone.

I'm not saying it's impossible - nothing is impossible in regards to the mind - but it is very, very unlikely.

[runnersdialzero]

If he did indeed suffer from Asperger's, it would've been almost impossible for him to sing with such vocal control and precision as he did during the 60's, not to mention the sheer beauty of the tone.

Don't know if this is true, considering a few known Asperger'sy singers in the music world who, from what I can tell, have no issues with vocal control etc. I'd imagine it affects speech more so than singing.

[The Shift]

Asperger's covers many many symptoms and has many differing levels. I don't think you can say anyone has  or hasn't got Asperger's simply because they do or don't exhibit a particular symptom. It strikes me as being a bit like saying a guy can't have cancer cos there ain't blood in his stools … sorry, grotesque example I know, but I've got Shortenin' Bread blasting from the speakers and am finding it hard to focus!

[Jaco]

Known people with Asperger's Syndrome?

Albert Einstein, Napoleon Bonaparte, Leonardo da Vinci, Beethoven, Elvis, Bill Gates, Tom Hanks, Shakespeare?


Glenn Gould?

Listen first to this: Glenn Gould plays Bach - Partita #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB76jxBq_gQ


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gould

He was progressive and anti-progressive at once, and likewise at once both a critic of the Zeitgeist and its most interesting expression. He was, in effect, stranded on a beachhead of his own thinking between past and future. That he was not able, by himself, to fashion a bridge between them is neither surprising, nor, in the end, disappointing. We should see this failure, rather, as an aspect of his genius. He both was and was not a man of his time.[40]

I guess he just wasn't made for these times

and

It has been debated whether or not Gould was autistic, or, more accurately, if his mind fell within the autism spectrum.[6] The diagnosis was first suggested by psychiatrist Peter Ostwald, a friend of Gould's, in the 1997 book, Glenn Gould: The Ecstasy and Tragedy of Genius.[55] It has been disputed by, among others, Kevin Bazzana.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

The yawning dog at 2:15 made me yawn.

I love Gould's recordings, especially the Bach concertos with Golschmann.  Watching him on video has always been an uncomfortably intimate and human experience, though.

I'm currently house-sitting for an elderly couple from Canada, and a piano played by Gould when staying with or visiting the wife's family is in the living room...

[KittyKat]

Known people with Asperger's Syndrome?

Albert Einstein, Napoleon Bonaparte, Leonardo da Vinci, Beethoven, Elvis, Bill Gates, Tom Hanks, Shakespeare?


Glen Gould?

Listen first to this: Glen Gould plays Bach - Partita #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB76jxBq_gQ




From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gould

He was progressive and anti-progressive at once, and likewise at once both a critic of the Zeitgeist and its most interesting expression. He was, in effect, stranded on a beachhead of his own thinking between past and future. That he was not able, by himself, to fashion a bridge between them is neither surprising, nor, in the end, disappointing. We should see this failure, rather, as an aspect of his genius. He both was and was not a man of his time.[40]

I guess he just wasn't made for these times

and

It has been debated whether or not Gould was autistic, or, more accurately, if his mind fell within the autism spectrum.[6] The diagnosis was first suggested by psychiatrist Peter Ostwald, a friend of Gould's, in the 1997 book, Glenn Gould: The Ecstasy and Tragedy of Genius.[55] It has been disputed by, among others, Kevin Bazzana.

I don't believe most if any of that above list.  It must be from Wikipedia or some other internet source.  I know Steven Spielberg is one celeb that claims to have been an undiagnosed Asperger due to his obsession with film-making when he was a child.  Well, guess what, most kids are obsessed with something or other and all of them live in a fantasy world.  That doesn't mean they have Asperger's Syndrome.  Just the fact that Spielberg does such emotionally centered films would indicate he's interested in other people and their feelings.  Same with Shakespeare.  Tom Hanks favors emotional type material as well as comedy.  People with autism are said to be especially humor impaired.  I have a really hard time believing Elvis was even remotely autism-spectral.  It's become trendy for people to diagnose themselves or others as autism spectrum personalities.  I don't buy it.  I agree with those who note that Brian had no problems making friends throughout his life, from childhood on, so he doesn't seem to qualify, either.

[runnersdialzero]

There are varying degrees of this stuff, though, and not everyone has every single symptom.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Obviously it's too hard to arm-chair diagnose these things from afar.  But it is interesting to consider, I guess.  I've never been diagnosed, but I'm 95 per cent sure I fall on the spectrum somewhere.

To me, it's not down to emotions, really, or even obsessions, or the empathy stuff.  Some doctors believe that people on the autistic spectrum actually have so much empathy, that they are unable to cope with the world.  To me, what makes me feel the most "autistic" is the relative inability to live outside my own mind.

And in some ways, you can see that in Brian NOW.  But I don't know about Brian as a kid.

[KittyKat]

Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped next year from the DSM (psych diagnosis manual), according to sources on Google.  It may not even exist or be a true "disease" nor ever was (it was named and based on one German psychiatrist's casual observations and personal theories, over 50 years ago).  It was a fashionable trend, just like other diagnosis that were trendy at one time then fell out of favor.  In any case, Brian's personality changed over time and a lot of the symptoms of schizophrenia and bipolar overlap with what used to be called Asperger's, which can only be diagnosed if it existed from early childhood onward.

[myonlysunshine]

Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped next year from the DSM (psych diagnosis manual), according to sources on Google.  It may not even exist or be a true "disease" nor ever was (it was named and based on one German psychiatrist's casual observations and personal theories, over 50 years ago).  It was a fashionable trend, just like other diagnosis that were trendy at one time then fell out of favor.

No it isn't a "fashionable trend." I have Asperger's Syndrome. I was diagnosed as a young child as a high functioning autistic. I also am studying Educational Psychology and am currently training to be a transition specialist for those on the spectrum who are transitioning from high school to college, so I happen to know a lot about the disorder. Asperger's Syndrome is a real disorder and a real diagnosis. You are misinterpreting why it is being removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders. It is simply being removed because studies have shown that it is not a distinct condition, separate from autism, as psychologists once thought. Rather, Asperger's just encompasses the highest functioning part of the spectrum. It is not a separate diagnosis from autism, rather it is merely a part of the overall spectrum, which includes all autism spectrum diagnoses. The plan is simply to remove the diagnosis and just call them all "autism spectrum disorders." That does not mean that the disorder or the disorders are not real, just that they are really just all manifestations of the same thing.

In any case, as someone who actually has the disorder and works with other people with Asperger's I really, really doubt that Brian has the disorder.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped next year from the DSM (psych diagnosis manual), according to sources on Google.  It may not even exist or be a true "disease" nor ever was (it was named and based on one German psychiatrist's casual observations and personal theories, over 50 years ago).  It was a fashionable trend, just like other diagnosis that were trendy at one time then fell out of favor.

No it isn't a "fashionable trend." I have Asperger's Syndrome. I was diagnosed as a young child as a high functioning autistic. I also am studying Educational Psychology and am currently training to be a transition specialist for those on the spectrum who are transitioning from high school to college, so I happen to know a lot about the disorder. Asperger's Syndrome is a real disorder and a real diagnosis. You are misinterpreting why it is being removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders. It is simply being removed because studies have shown that it is not a distinct condition, separate from autism, as psychologists once thought. Rather, Asperger's just encompass the highest functioning part of the spectrum. It is not a separate diagnosis from autism, rather it is merely a part of the overall spectrum, which includes all autism spectrum diagnoses. The plan is simply to remove the diagnosis and just call them all "autism spectrum disorders." That does not mean that the disorder or the disorders are not real, just that they are really just all manifestations of the same thing.

In any case, as someone who actually has the disorder and works with other people with Asperger's I really, really doubt that Brian has the disorder.

Thank you for that reply to a rather distasteful post.  I would say it's being removed, or "moved" rather, from the DSM because it's actually become better understood and starting to be recognized better.

[SMiLE Brian]

Props to all alone for setting the record straight

[Wirestone]

I don't think KittyKat's post was in particularly poor taste. Mental illnesses are notoriously poorly defined, and the DSM is a real minefield. The notion that Asperger's diagnoses are way too widespread is also not unusual -- part of an increasing and real societal trend to medicalize peculiar behavior.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I don't think KittyKat's post was in particularly poor taste. Mental illnesses are notoriously poorly defined, and the DSM is a real minefield. The notion that Asperger's diagnoses are way too widespread is also not unusual -- part of an increasing and real societal trend to medicalize peculiar behavior.

Well, calling it trendy seemed to make light of the very real pain people feel because of various brain-wiring.  But I would agree that any sort of talk about what's going on in our brains and bodies is going to be limited by those same brains of ours.

[runnersdialzero]

Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped next year from the DSM (psych diagnosis manual), according to sources on Google.  It may not even exist or be a true "disease" nor ever was (it was named and based on one German psychiatrist's casual observations and personal theories, over 50 years ago).  It was a fashionable trend, just like other diagnosis that were trendy at one time then fell out of favor.

No it isn't a "fashionable trend." I have Asperger's Syndrome. I was diagnosed as a young child as a high functioning autistic. I also am studying Educational Psychology and am currently training to be a transition specialist for those on the spectrum who are transitioning from high school to college, so I happen to know a lot about the disorder. Asperger's Syndrome is a real disorder and a real diagnosis. You are misinterpreting why it is being removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders. It is simply being removed because studies have shown that it is not a distinct condition, separate from autism, as psychologists once thought. Rather, Asperger's just encompasses the highest functioning part of the spectrum. It is not a separate diagnosis from autism, rather it is merely a part of the overall spectrum, which includes all autism spectrum diagnoses. The plan is simply to remove the diagnosis and just call them all "autism spectrum disorders." That does not mean that the disorder or the disorders are not real, just that they are really just all manifestations of the same thing.

In any case, as someone who actually has the disorder and works with other people with Asperger's I really, really doubt that Brian has the disorder.

Thank y'kindly for this. While there is a tendency nowadays for some folks to read about something on the internet and then think themselves into believing they have it (and some not good doctors preying on that kind of behavior), things like Asperger's shouldn't be discredited or not taken seriously just because some folks self-diagnose a bit too often.

I got the same sh*t from some people after being diagnosed with something a few years back. Even some very close family members didn't buy it - I had either went out of my way to tell the doctor what she wanted to hear (hint: I didn't. Who wants to be told their wiring is a little off upstairs?) or I wasn't acting exactly like the exaggerated-for-TV character on whatever show who, in a sudden rage, stabbed his wife in the ass 72 times for breathing too loudly and then moments later began a 72 hour cookie binge while watching the entire Barney The Dinosaur series or whatever. Not everyone has the exact same symptoms to the exact same degree, and everyone is going to approach their symptoms a little differently. I was given the diagnosis and, above any other possibilities, it kinda made sense to me. Still, these folks didn't buy it. The symptoms are hard enough to work through day to day, I don't need people who have a poor understanding of the subject stressing me out further and making me feel worse by telling me I'm basically making sh*t up, y'know?

Anywayz. sry about the life story, just saying, yeah - I don't care for it when people want to discredit people on these things without really knowing them. I won't deny some people are wrongly diagnosed by a doctor looking to fatten their wallet, nor am I saying some people don't put on an act or think themselves into a condition, but consider giving each individual the benefit of the doubt, getting to know them better, and then deciding if they may be putting on an act or may have a tendency to self-diagnose themselves with horrible things every other day.