Brian's problem's...again

[The Shift]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Pick one:

1. Schizoaffective disorder
2. Manic-depressive
3. Tardive dyskinesia

Going through my mind too, especially reading the "where does Brian run to" thread, but then I don't know how the other conditions which Mikie listed here are defined and suspect there's probably plenty of overlap in the symptoms. Peter might be able to add to that but the subject has been thrashed thoroughly in many many earlier threads also.

This thread caught my eye simply because a relative has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's and I recognise a few shared characteristics.

[startBBtoday]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Pick one:

1. Schizoaffective disorder
2. Manic-depressive
3. Tardive dyskinesia

Going through my mind too, especially reading the "where does Brian run to" thread, but then I don't know how the other conditions which Mikie listed here are defined and suspect there's probably plenty of overlap in the symptoms. Peter might be able to add to that but the subject has been thrashed thoroughly in many many earlier threads also.

This thread caught my eye simply because a relative has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's and I recognise a few shared characteristics.

He definitely shares characteristics, but one aspect of Asperger's is the inability to participate in team/sports activities. Between his participation in the Beach Boys as a group, baseball, football, etc. it leads me to believe Asperger's probably wasn't one of his conditions.

[Kamandi]

Based on Brian's limited mobility and behavior while waiting for the plane in Tucson the day after their first show, I wonder if he is also experiencing chronic pain issues. That combined with his mental illness might make this tour more difficult than others in the past.

[endofposts]

Based on Brian's limited mobility and behavior while waiting for the plane in Tucson the day after their first show, I wonder if he is also experiencing chronic pain issues. That combined with his mental illness might make this tour more difficult than others in the past.

Yep, if he has back problems, some of them aren't helped by sitting down, or laying down, or standing up, or physical activity.  I've had a minor back thing and it seems like if you do any one thing for too long, it starts hurting.  Bless the guy for being out there with whatever problems he has, along with the other guys.  I've read that Mike has had some health problems here and there, too, not to mention Bruce having surgery a few years ago.

[Micha]

He definitely shares characteristics, but one aspect of Asperger's is the inability to participate in team/sports activities. Between his participation in the Beach Boys as a group, baseball, football, etc. it leads me to believe Asperger's probably wasn't one of his conditions.

Hm, Aspergers are not generally inable to do sports or team sports, though it is more difficult for them. And if the Asperger guy has a band that is willing to do as he says, as were the Beach Boys, it can work. He's not really part of the team but the director of the team.

But knowing a few things about Aspergers I agree with you that Brian probably isn't one.

[AndrewHickey]

He definitely shares characteristics, but one aspect of Asperger's is the inability to participate in team/sports activities. Between his participation in the Beach Boys as a group, baseball, football, etc. it leads me to believe Asperger's probably wasn't one of his conditions.

People with Asperger's are perfectly capable of taking part in team activities. Some have low muscle tone or bad co-ordination. so aren't very good at sports, but not all do.
It's possible Brian has Asperger's, but I doubt it. He's missing quite a few of the normal behavioural characteristics that go with Asperger's, and doesn't really look like someone with Asperger's either. If he *does* have it, it's very mild, but I think it's more likely that he's just someone who is scared, because of his upbringing, of social situations, in a way that leads to presenting with a few of the same symptoms but for a different underlying reason.

[Lonely Summer]

I own seasons 1-3 on DVD. One of the best episodic dramas of all time, in my opinion, and better than the movie.

Yeah, WAAYYY better than the movie! Last time I was aware of it being on tv was circa 1990 on A&E. I'm told it never did well as a syndicated show because Kimble finally got to confront the one armed man in the last episode - people aren't interested anymore once they know how it ends. Not true for me, though, I watch the eps over and over.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Having seen Brian a dozen times over the past 13 years I should be used to his mysterious ways. Yet I must admit I was slightly...hurt, I guess...at his lack of response following the unbelieveable love and adoration heaped upon him at Saturday night's concert. The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

And why, after all these years, do I even still bother to ask these unanswerable questions? 

[Zach95]

Having seen Brian a dozen times over the past 13 years I should be used to his mysterious ways. Yet I must admit I was slightly...hurt, I guess...at his lack of response following the unbelieveable love and adoration heaped upon him at Saturday night's concert. The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

And why, after all these years, do I even still bother to ask these unanswerable questions? 

I noticed this as well. It was right after Do It Again, or rather the first string of songs, when the crowd gave him a minute or so standing ovation of adoration.  It was really something. Brian didn't even move a wink.  Now, later in the concert he said thank you a few times following his leads, which was nice, but that ovation was incredible and he didn't say a word.

[sea of tunes]

Who 1st diagnosed Brian with schizoaffective disorder?

[Paul J B]

Having seen Brian a dozen times over the past 13 years I should be used to his mysterious ways. Yet I must admit I was slightly...hurt, I guess...at his lack of response following the unbelieveable love and adoration heaped upon him at Saturday night's concert. The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

And why, after all these years, do I even still bother to ask these unanswerable questions? 

I noticed this as well. It was right after Do It Again, or rather the first string of songs, when the crowd gave him a minute or so standing ovation of adoration.  It was really something. Brian didn't even move a wink.  Now, later in the concert he said thank you a few times following his leads, which was nice, but that ovation was incredible and he didn't say a word.

I don't think we will ever know. I purchased and finished the Peter Carlin book a few weeks ago, and even though it was a decent book it sort of left the reader with the impression (as did David Leaf) that Brian really needed to release Smile in order to shed a lot of his "problems". Obviously, there has been NO change in Brian's well being or stage persona since BWPS was finished. He has had off days since he started touring in '99 and he continues to do so. Brian is the way he is and nothing will change. The last solo show that I saw in 2009, he darn near looked like a mannequin. Unfortunately, since most of the info we get on him is from other people speaking for him or drawing their own assumptions or conclusions I have come to the sad reality that we will never know how Brian really feels.

[hypehat]

Having seen Brian a dozen times over the past 13 years I should be used to his mysterious ways. Yet I must admit I was slightly...hurt, I guess...at his lack of response following the unbelieveable love and adoration heaped upon him at Saturday night's concert. The audience gave him the damnest standing ovation I'd ever witnessed and it didn't put the slightest dent in his armour of unhappiness.

Does he hear us? Does he feel the love? Or is he simply checking his watch and waiting to get the hell away from us?

And why, after all these years, do I even still bother to ask these unanswerable questions?  

I noticed this as well. It was right after Do It Again, or rather the first string of songs, when the crowd gave him a minute or so standing ovation of adoration.  It was really something. Brian didn't even move a wink.  Now, later in the concert he said thank you a few times following his leads, which was nice, but that ovation was incredible and he didn't say a word.

I don't think we will ever know. I purchased and finished the Peter Carlin book a few weeks ago, and even though it was a decent book it sort of left the reader with the impression (as did David Leaf) that Brian really needed to release Smile in order to shed a lot of his "problems". Obviously, there has been NO change in Brian's well being or stage persona since BWPS was finished. He has had off days since he started touring in '99 and he continues to do so. Brian is the way he is and nothing will change. The last solo show that I saw in 2009, he darn near looked like a mannequin. Unfortunately, since most of the info we get on him is from other people speaking for him or drawing their own assumptions or conclusions I have come to the sad reality that we will never know how Brian really feels.

Not strictly true - since he's finished Smile, he's been way more productive. Reckon the Brian of the nineties would have walked into a record company office and said 'I wanna make a Gershwin covers album?'

And he's also got better at singing - Compare where he was at the start of the decade (saying Pet Sounds live/The Roxy is a little unfair, so GIOMH) to the Gershwin album, because he cares more.

As for the reality, yes, simply finishing Smile was not going to cure Brian's mental illness. But I bet it made him feel f***ing amazing, and probably set the little gears in his head working that made him think he could do another 'suite' with TLOS. Or a Beach Boys reunion.

Yeah, we'll never know.

[sea of tunes]

I always got the impression that finishing "SMiLE" in 2003 was about catharsis.  Melinda and his manager nudged him into thinking it would be a good idea to finally revisit it and it became kind of a personal cleansing for him.  The response to it was kind of a vindication for him (and Van Dyke). 

I've never seen Brian live, so I cannot comment.  But of the videos I have seen, he always bows with the band after the performance is completed.  Again, that is solely based on performances I have seen on DVD and Youtube from the last 10 years or so.

Some of the performances I have seen with the Beach Boys from this year, during the ovation, he quickly turns and jets for stage left.  I honestly take that to be that he probably is uncomfortable (for whatever reason) being involved in this reunion.  In interviews, he has been subdued and let Mike do most of the driving.  I take his body language to be 'I'm here because the guys really wanted me to be but I can't wait for this to be over so I can go back to doing whatever I want'.

[LostArt]

Some of the performances I have seen with the Beach Boys from this year, during the ovation, he quickly turns and jets for stage left.  I honestly take that to be that he probably is uncomfortable (for whatever reason) being involved in this reunion.  In interviews, he has been subdued and let Mike do most of the driving.  I take his body language to be 'I'm here because the guys really wanted me to be but I can't wait for this to be over so I can go back to doing whatever I want'.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13574.0.html

[Amanda Hart]

Some of the performances I have seen with the Beach Boys from this year, during the ovation, he quickly turns and jets for stage left.  I honestly take that to be that he probably is uncomfortable (for whatever reason) being involved in this reunion.  In interviews, he has been subdued and let Mike do most of the driving.  I take his body language to be 'I'm here because the guys really wanted me to be but I can't wait for this to be over so I can go back to doing whatever I want'.

He leaves the stage quickly during all of his solo shows, too. I've been at shows were he was in good form and engaged during the performance, but got up and exited the stage while the band was still playing before intermission. It's not unique to these shows and I doubt it has anything to do with how he feels about the reunion. From what I've heard and observed myself, he seems to be enjoying this tour more overall than any tour he's done in a long time.

Who knows why he always leaves early; maybe he's uncomfortable getting an ovation, maybe he's being a smart ass and getting up as soon as the instructions come on his teleprompter, or maybe he really has to go to the bathroom (he is an old man, after all). If there is one thing we can say for certain about Brian Wilson, it's that you never can really tell why he does what he does or what he could be thinking at any moment.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I never bought into the part about the catharsis and "exorcising demons" and "getting the monkey off his back" by addressing SMiLE. Frankly, I never thought he wanted to do the thing; I thought he agreed to do it to please his wifeandmanagers, who were more interested in salvaging a solo career. The Beautiful Dreamer documentary did nothing to change my mind.

If I am to be totally honest, I see no change in Brian Wilson, the artist, since BWPS. Well, there is one thing; his vocals on the last two albums (Gershwin and Disney) have been very good, maybe his best in 35 years. However, I thought that had more to do with Brian finally learning how to phrase and "use" his damage voice effectively.

As far as Brian the person - the man - none of us really know. Maybe the BWPS experience was cathartic, I don't know. One thing I can SEE. Since Brian began consistently recording and performing as a solo artist, he appears to have aged significantly.

[Amanda Hart]

If I am to be totally honest, I see no change in Brian Wilson, the artist, since BWPS. Well, there is one thing; his vocals on the last two albums (Gershwin and Disney) have been very good, maybe his best in 35 years. However, I thought that had more to do with Brian finally learning how to phrase and "use" his damage voice effectively.

I totally agree with you, Sheriff. I think learning how to use his voice in it's current state and working in his new range has been the key to Brian's vocal success over the last 4 years or so. Finishing and touring Smile may have given him more motivation. I really do believe he is driven by success more than anything other single factor, so maybe seeing the adulation relating to BWPS pushed him to keep going. However, I don't think finishing Smile was the cure-all for Brian's demons that it was as touted at the time.

[Amazing Larry]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Wow... that makes PERFECT sense.

[anazgnos]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Wow... that makes PERFECT sense.

Be wary of Internet Asperger's Diagnosis Syndrome, though.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

20 minute songwriting binges? That doesnt sound too manic, to be honest.

Sorry, will edit. I meant that he constantly claims to have finished an entire song, "like that," in 20 minutes.

To be honest, I have some type of undignosed depression, and when I start to feel it coming on, i have a strang urge to sit at my piano and write. It's like the music is the depression, it's like... I want it to feel that way so I can write... It's very strange...

[Dunderhead]

I've often wondered if Brian has undiagnosed Asperger's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Wow... that makes PERFECT sense.

Be wary of Internet Asperger's Diagnosis Syndrome, though.

I don't think that covers a lot of Brian's apparent symptoms. It really seems like he has a type of panic disorder. Panic attacks, compulsive behaviour, agoraphobia, flashbacks and hallucinations. It's always sounded like some type of comorbid condition combining panic disorder and schizophrenia.

[Cyncie]

I don't see Asperger's syndrome in Brian at all. Asperger's generally is characterized by difficulty with social interaction and communication in childhood that improves as the child matures, whereas Brian's difficulties increased as he got older. People with Asperger's also present with very narrow/limited areas of interest. Young Brian, by all accounts, participated in normal activities. He dated and had friends and was actively engaged in school. Children with Asperger's are often clumsy, and young Brian participated in several sports.

I'm not going to look at current Brian, with his reduced affect, decreased physical ability and idiosyncratic communication and apply a diagnosis of a syndrome that should have manifested itself in childhood. Instead, I'll just accept the diagnosis we've been given: Schizoaffective Disorder, tardive dyskinesia, and a bad back.

[Catbirdman]

To be honest, I have some type of undignosed depression, and when I start to feel it coming on, i have a strang urge to sit at my piano and write. It's like the music is the depression, it's like... I want it to feel that way so I can write... It's very strange...

Just get it treated, Father. You'll be glad you did. I went 37 years just slugging it out on my own, and now it sucks to think of all that time spent functioning at subpar levels.

I found that depression was a great inspiration for creativity. But I could never write while depressed. I could only write after the fact, looking back.

I still use your H&V Cantina mix in my personal Smile!

[runnersdialzero]

Unfortunately, it's far from a simple "just get it treated" for some. Among several other factors, the medication trial and error is just brutal. I will say I'm totally envious of you's d00ds' ability to be creatively productive/productive at all despite or in conjunction with the issues - it's greatly dulled mine about 90% of the time.

ANYWAYYZZ. Good luck to both of you. ^_^

[Catbirdman]

Unfortunately, it's far from a simple "just get it treated" for some. Among several other factors, the medication trial and error is just brutal. I will say I'm totally envious of you's d00ds' ability to be creatively productive/productive at all despite or in conjunction with the issues - it's greatly dulled mine about 90% of the time.

ANYWAYYZZ. Good luck to both of you. ^_^

Tell me about it. My med tryouts lasted 3 years. Good luck to all of us, with our various ailments.