Brian's problem's...again

[Paul J B]

Brian and drugs are complicated because for a long time it was easier to claim that you were a drug casualty than to say you were mentally ill. It's a cultural thing, albeit one that has changed.

And it's also possible that those close to Brian and the situation have every incentive to minimize what happened to him -- both in terms of drugs and mental illness -- because no one wants to look bad in retrospect. Just remember that the fact that Brian was institutionalized in the late 60s is a relatively new piece of knowledge -- I don't think that was commonly known until the last 10 years or so. So that was a secret that was held for some 30-plus years.

I think it's difficult to know precisely anything about Brian's "true" mental state, because he's smart and crafty, the people around him have every incentive to mislead (and have for the last 40 years), and the popular entertainment media and fandom prefer compelling, emotional stories to flawed human reality.

Interesting thoughts Wirestone. My own impression is that for whatever reasons, the public has never really been told the truth. It may not be our business and maybe it is all just too complicated to simplify. In any case this thread has helped so now I have a bit more ammo next time I'm approached with the "Brian's problems" questions.

My sister, had also just seen Glen Campbell in Milwaukee a month or two ago. She was aware of his Alzheimer's and said the crowd was very compassionate about his struggles during the performance. Not exactly apples to apples but it does make a difference if people KNOW what the situation is. With Brian it's always vague and therefore always invites speculation and false assumptions. Even the Larry King transcript only helps complicate things because as we all know what Brian says is often not reality. That interview leads one to think most of his issues are depression related. It seems obvious that it's a lot more complicated.

[Mr. Cohen]

I think that the long-term effects of my Brian's cocaine and alcohol abuse has been underestimated by fans, simply because Brian seemed relatively fine whenever he sobered up for a few during the '70s. Some of the damage is not immediately apparent when it comes to those kinds of drugs. It's kind like how a football player can get pummeled throughout their 20s and 30s and seem fine, only to not be able to remember where their house is in their 50s.  

Though we don't know all the facts, it seems like Brian really got out of control in the late 70s and early 80s. Remember, the Brian in '76 had only been seriously abusing for a couple of years. And even then, it seemed like the old Brian was just barely hanging on - he was there, but you kind of had to squint to see it. But by 1983, he been abusing drugs and alcohol to an insane extent for over a decade.

In 1985, there's an interview with Brian during Live Aid, and he seems to be suffering from serious memory loss. He can't even remember the basic details of his day. While we can't say for sure, it seems Landy didn't start heavily over-prescribing medication to Brian until the very late '80s and early '90s, when he became desperate to maintain his control over Brian. So, what see in the mid-80s was probably damage Brian had largely done to himself.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe Landy's treatments exacerbated Brian's problems, but it seems more to have affected his mental health rather than the physical health of his brain, if you ask me.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

[Heysaboda]

God bless the guy, we're lucky he still tours/sings/records. 

Times one million!

I can never think of Brian Wilson without thinking of all the glorious gifts he has given us!

[LostArt]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

No man, Richard Kimble was played by David Janssen. 




Is my age showing?

[The Heartical Don]

I think that the long-term effects of my Brian's cocaine and alcohol abuse has been underestimated by fans, simply because Brian seemed relatively fine whenever he sobered up for a few during the '70s. Some of the damage is not immediately apparent when it comes to those kinds of drugs. It's kind like how a football player can get pummeled throughout their 20s and 30s and seem fine, only to not be able to remember where their house is in their 50s.  

Though we don't know all the facts, it seems like Brian really got out of control in the late 70s and early 80s. Remember, the Brian in '76 had only been seriously abusing for a couple of years. And even then, it seemed like the old Brian was just barely hanging on - he was there, but you kind of had to squint to see it. But by 1983, he been abusing drugs and alcohol to an insane extent for over a decade.

In 1985, there's an interview with Brian during Live Aid, and he seems to be suffering from serious memory loss. He can't even remember the basic details of his day. While we can't say for sure, it seems Landy didn't start heavily over-prescribing medication to Brian until the very late '80s and early '90s, when he became desperate to maintain his control over Brian. So, what see in the mid-80s was probably damage Brian had largely done to himself.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe Landy's treatments exacerbated Brian's problems, but it seems more to have affected his mental health rather than the physical health of his brain, if you ask me.

Interesting points there, Dada. I agree up to a point: it is not very likely that the excesses in drugs and alcohol didn’t do any harm, and that each and any problem he’s been suffering from throughout the nineties and noughties is due to Landy’s overmedication.
On the other hand, there’s a point I want to make: contrary to most heavy users of, say, cocaine and alcohol (well, those that are observed in hospital to have got permanent damage from those substances), Brian can hardly be said to have suffered from longterm vitamin deficits. Memory loss in alcohol abuse (not the retrograde amnesia, but the difficulties in coming up with names, places, years), also known as Korsakov’s, is attributable to a chronic shortage in Vitamine B, notably B12.
Well, our Brian can safely be said to have enjoyed copious amounts of food, even in his worst days, IMHO (gathering from the stories that don’t contradict each other on this issue). Steaks and salads always were within reach IIRC.
Whether his brain got some atrophy from it all, that I don’t know. I’d have to see some MRS/MRI scan for that.

[Mr. Cohen]

On the other hand, there’s a point I want to make: contrary to most heavy users of, say, cocaine and alcohol (well, those that are observed in hospital to have got permanent damage from those substances), Brian can hardly be said to have suffered from longterm vitamin deficits.

True, but nutritional deficits are just one way alcohol ([url]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1998.tb04389.x/abstract;jsessionid=986EC1579D7228D665EDE04598912054.d02t02[url]) can harm the brain. Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to be an anti-alcohol spokesperson.  I enjoy drinking. But from the little I've read, it sounds like Brian was capable of drinking crazy amounts by the late '70s. There's a difference between have 6-7 beers and 15-20 shots in a night.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

Henry Turner. You know, from Regarding Henry - the one about the guy who gets shot in a convenience store and loses his memory and discovers through family love that he likes scrambled eggs. A classic.

[The Heartical Don]

On the other hand, there’s a point I want to make: contrary to most heavy users of, say, cocaine and alcohol (well, those that are observed in hospital to have got permanent damage from those substances), Brian can hardly be said to have suffered from longterm vitamin deficits.

True, but nutritional deficits are just one way alcohol ([url]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1998.tb04389.x/abstract;jsessionid=986EC1579D7228D665EDE04598912054.d02t02[url]) can harm the brain. Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to be an anti-alcohol spokesperson.  I enjoy drinking. But from the little I've read, it sounds like Brian was capable of drinking crazy amounts by the late '70s. There's a difference between have 6-7 beers and 15-20 shots in a night.

I agree - but that is why I mentioned 'atrophy', damage to, for instance, the white matter in the brain (the sheath that insulates fibres of nerve cells), and also the result of nerve cell loss (cell death), due to chronic alcohol poisoning.

But thanks for the link, I will follow it.

[Aegir]

But from the little I've read, it sounds like Brian was capable of drinking crazy amounts by the late '70s. There's a difference between have 6-7 beers and 15-20 shots in a night.

Rock and roll, man.

[Runaways]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

Henry Turner. You know, from Regarding Henry - the one about the guy who gets shot in a convenience store and loses his memory and discovers through family love that he likes scrambled eggs. A classic.

this actually seems applicable.

[The Heartical Don]

But from the little I've read, it sounds like Brian was capable of drinking crazy amounts by the late '70s. There's a difference between have 6-7 beers and 15-20 shots in a night.

Rock and roll, man.

 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

No man, Richard Kimble was played by David Janssen. 




Is my age showing?

Yes it is. So were you a fan of the Marx Brothers growing up?    Actually I have never seen the original. But the Harrison Ford version is one of my favorites.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

Henry Turner. You know, from Regarding Henry - the one about the guy who gets shot in a convenience store and loses his memory and discovers through family love that he likes scrambled eggs. A classic.

Yes! That is a good one. I actually cried watching that.

[LostArt]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

No man, Richard Kimble was played by David Janssen.  




Is my age showing?

Yes it is. So were you a fan of the Marx Brothers growing up?    Actually I have never seen the original. But the Harrison Ford version is one of my favorites.

   Nah.  I mean, I was a fan of the Marx Brothers, but those were old movies even when I was a kid.  The Fugitive was a weekly TV series in the ‘60s, starring David Janssen as Dr. Richard Kimble, and Barry Morse as Lieutenant Philip Gerard.  It had a decent four year run on ABC  There were only four TV channels at the time, though, ABC, NBC, CBS, and Public Broadcasting, so there wasn’t a whole lot of competition,  I was 7 years old when the series started in 1963, but I didn’t start watching until a couple years later.  I liked it.

edit:   Eh, sorry for going off topic.  Ummmm, Brian probably watched the show, too.  There. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Han Solo looks good for his age

he's indiana jones first in my book

Dr Richard Kimble

No man, Richard Kimble was played by David Janssen. 




Is my age showing?

Yes it is. So were you a fan of the Marx Brothers growing up?    Actually I have never seen the original. But the Harrison Ford version is one of my favorites.

   Nah.  I mean, I was a fan of the Marx Brothers, but those were old movies even when I was a kid.  The Fugitive was a weekly TV series in the ‘60s, starring David Janssen as Dr. Richard Kimble, and Barry Morse as Lieutenant Philip Gerard.  It had a decent four year run on ABC  There were only four TV channels at the time, though, ABC, NBC, CBS, and Public Broadcasting, so there wasn’t a whole lot of competition,  I was 7 years old when the series started in 1963, but I didn’t start watching until a couple years later.  I liked it.

edit:   Eh, sorry for going off topic.  Ummmm, Brian probably watched the show, too.  There.

I have heard of the 60s Fugitive actually. I just never seen it. But hey, my favorite band is from the 60s, and I was born on Aug 19 1977. The same week/day that Elvis and Groucho died.

[Ron]

The 60's fugitive was pretty good, you should check it out.  You like old music (Obviously!) so you'll probably like old television shows too, especially when they're actually pretty cool like the Fugitive. 

[Lonely Summer]

The 60's fugitive was pretty good, you should check it out.  You like old music (Obviously!) so you'll probably like old television shows too, especially when they're actually pretty cool like the Fugitive. 

I have every ep of the Fugitive in my collection - one of the best shows ever made!

[harrisonjon]

He's 70 in Paul McCartney years but 95 in Keith Richard years (or vice versa). Either way, his biological age clearly does not reflect how he aged his mind and body with drug in-take.

Plus there's the delayed effect of being whacked by dad. See also Dennis.

It's more remarkable that he's still here.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

The 60's fugitive was pretty good, you should check it out.  You like old music (Obviously!) so you'll probably like old television shows too, especially when they're actually pretty cool like the Fugitive. 

I will check it out. I have watched old shows like Columbo, Lassie, Happy Days, Dennis the Menace, Get Smart, and many more. But never The Fugitive for some reason. I've never seen it on tv. I can problem rent it at Premiere Video which has everything!

[Ron]

I don't know why they don't show it on t.v. anymore... I guess it always comes down to who owns the rights and the price they want to syndicate it or whatever.  You'd think it would have been given the "nick at night" treatment somewhere along the way but I can't remember the last time I saw a rerun of it anywhere. 

I can just imagine how great it must have been when it first came out, such a ridiculous premise with the one armed man, and every episode wondering if he was lying, or was crazy or imagined it.... Seeing that finale (was it a movie? or a two hour episode?  Can't remember) must have been really cool. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I own seasons 1-3 on DVD. One of the best episodic dramas of all time, in my opinion, and better than the movie.

[Myk Luhv]

Since we're talking about Brian's problems: Has he ever gotten more traditional psychological therapy (minus Landy, obviously...) for his non-mental-illness issues, i.e., about Murry or his family-band? It seems like it might have (would/does?) help...

[Ron]

I would imagine he has, he has (or did) a team of specialists at UCLA who worked with him (maybe still do) once Melinda got involved.  I would imagine doctors of that caliber either treated him or referred him to someone. 

[Myk Luhv]

Whoa, I had no idea he had his very own team of specialists to help deal with his sundry problems, jeez. I suppose that says a lot right there, doesn't it? At least someone was sensible enough to do that though since he obviously seems much improved.