The Autotune Thread

[hypehat]

AGD, the tapes from Tucson are the most blatant example I can think of. Heroes & Villains, in particular - the verses. I think we are characterising 'mild chorusing' differently, natch.

They are doing it subtler, but it's still there on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZZw_H2Cm4&feature=related

Most clips of Do You Wanna Dance, Sail On Sailor and Heroes And Villains should also be evidence enough....

It is nowhere near as strong as it can be on the Tampa gig, btw.


As an aside, your challenge has mostly got me just surfing through clips of the reunion and having a good time!   

[37!ws]

Okay, just watched the link AGD requested....and I agree with him: if they are using Auto-Tune, they need to sue somebody. Brian is CLEARLY off-pitch by like a quarter-tone or so on a few words, in particuarly, "water, " "marauder," "stumble"...sounds like somebody who's not quite reaching the notes.

I will say, though, he seems to be singing it with more feeling (SLIGHTLY more, that is) than before on the song...

[seltaeb1012002]

Okay, just watched the link AGD requested....and I agree with him: if they are using Auto-Tune, they need to sue somebody. Brian is CLEARLY off-pitch

I think that's why we're all bugging out. The autotune is doing more harm than good. Though I can understand why it might not be as easy to hear in a live situation.

On another note, it sounds like they really eased up on it last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1EhNnCZ9kw

[Quzi]

Okay, just watched the link AGD requested....and I agree with him: if they are using Auto-Tune, they need to sue somebody. Brian is CLEARLY off-pitch

I think that's why we're all bugging out. The autotune is doing more harm than good. Though I can understand why it might not be as easy to hear in a live situation.

On another note, it sounds like they really eased up on it last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1EhNnCZ9kw

Eased up or turned off? I can't hear anything to be honest (  ). That being said, I haven't listened to anything else from the show, but hopefully it's more like this and a little less like that SoS performance I posted!

[seltaeb1012002]

It sounds like it could be set to "slow", but it may very well be turned off.

Put it this way, if this was the first performance I heard from the tour, I wouldn't be claiming pitch correction.

I'm anxious to see some of the other performances pop up before I make a complete judgement.

Either way, this is progress guys! 

[harrisonjon]

If/when they release a DVD, what happens to Brian's vocal? More filter? Studio overdubs by BW (or JF?)?

[seltaeb1012002]

If/when they release a DVD, what happens to Brian's vocal? More filter? Studio overdubs by BW (or JF?)?

I'd think so. Whatever they did with the Brian Wilson On Tour DVD would be the best move imo.

Part of me that thinks that Joe Thomas may autotune the crap out of everything, but here's hoping that he doesn't.

Of course, if they need natural-sounding, undetectable pitch correction, I'd be happy to offer my services. 

[37!ws]

Okay, just watched the link AGD requested....and I agree with him: if they are using Auto-Tune, they need to sue somebody. Brian is CLEARLY off-pitch

I think that's why we're all bugging out. The autotune is doing more harm than good. Though I can understand why it might not be as easy to hear in a live situation.

Well, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I mean, Brian's just plain MISSING the notes....REACHING THERE, but not quite getting there. If it were Auto-Tuned, he'd either GET THERE or just blatantly not be there at all. He was close. Auto-Tune would prevent the "close" and make it either where it NEEDS TO BE, or lower. Brian's too close (but noticeably off), or else SOMETHING would have sounded different.

[seltaeb1012002]

Okay, just watched the link AGD requested....and I agree with him: if they are using Auto-Tune, they need to sue somebody. Brian is CLEARLY off-pitch

I think that's why we're all bugging out. The autotune is doing more harm than good. Though I can understand why it might not be as easy to hear in a live situation.

Well, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I mean, Brian's just plain MISSING the notes....REACHING THERE, but not quite getting there. If it were Auto-Tuned, he'd either GET THERE or just blatantly not be there at all. He was close. Auto-Tune would prevent the "close" and make it either where it NEEDS TO BE, or lower. Brian's too close (but noticeably off), or else SOMETHING would have sounded different.

You think so? I hear what you're saying in a few instances. But peep the robotic pitch slide as soon as the SOS video starts. That's B-Pain in full throttle.

But hey this might all be pointless since it looks like they might not have used it in NY.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Would someone kindly point me at what they consider to be the most blatant example of BW AT on youtube from the current tour ? Thanks in advance.

Check your Facebook messages...sent one. FWIW, I don't think it's been used as much as some people say (and you're spot on about the chorusing being used), but this was very hard to miss.

Here's the deal...I don't think it's used on every song, at all. In fact, I'd venture to guess that it's only being used on songs that are being filmed for possible DVD release. I know...why would the sound people do it if it sounds bad? To that, I answer....well, it was done on the Knebworth dvd (years after the fact) and it sounded terrible.

As for why it's not being used on other band members? Well, I thought I heard it on Bruce a couple of times, but I could be mistaken. That said, Brian's voice is NOT conducive to sounding good when *live* pitch correction is being used.

[LostArt]

[In fact, I'd venture to guess that it's only being used on songs that are being filmed for possible DVD release.

It wouldn't matter if a song is going to be included in a DVD/live album, because the board in the recording truck would be getting unprocessed signals.  You wouldn't want a live recording to use the same eq/effects/processing that is present on the house mix because that is all applied to make it sound good for the folks in the venue.  Those same settings likely would not sound good on a live recording.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

^True. My field is studio recording, not live recording.

[guitarfool2002]

And remember if it follows the example of live albums from the past 50 years or so, there will be extensive fixes or even re-recordings and punch-ins to "fix" any problems in post-production. Unless it becomes one of those "100% Live!" releases where the PR goes out of its way to say there was no fixing or sweetening done to the concert tapes.

So the argument that says Autotune is being used live with an eye towards a DVD release doesn't seem as valid since any fixing would be done in post anyway, well after the tapes were recorded live.

I'll have to post what I heard/know about at least one of the "American Idol" finale shows if anyone doubts this...

[LostArt]

I'll have to post what I heard/know about at least one of the "American Idol" finale shows if anyone doubts this...

Oh man, I can only imagine.

[guitarfool2002]

I'll have to post what I heard/know about at least one of the "American Idol" finale shows if anyone doubts this...

Oh man, I can only imagine.

From a musical/performance standpoint, just assume what you may think about it is close to the truth.

And from a live recording standpoint in general, there are hundreds of examples but I heard one firsthand from an engineer who was contracted to do a live feed for a band's future radio/net broadcast, for a band who is multi-platinum and plays big shows and venues, and this person said the playing from one prominent member (co-founder) wasn't just sloppy, it was awful. No names, no instruments mentioned...but the stuff we hear if anyone doesn't already know can be very far removed and very much altered from the signals coming into the board where the recording is being done.

And it backs up the earlier comment here about the sound being mixed differently for the live audience actually in the venue: Those same effects and all that wacky live audio crossover kind of stuff is done for the folks in the seats. What you may hear on a future "official" live recording is not that mix, in many cases. Unless they get a tape straight from the live board, like Dinky Dawson's Steely Dan concert cassette recordings from '74 where you hear all the panning and such.

[Cam Mott]

Is Brian's voice alone being doubled and/or tripled? If it is could it be that an auto tune effect is produced by several people missing/searching for a pitch to varying degrees at the same time?

Even if that made any sense [doubt it] it wouldn't explain why it is more pronounced on fan recordings and bearly audible/non-existent on professional recording or to live ears.

Wha?

[Mr. Cohen]

OMG... AGD is denying the obvious autotune/pitch correction. The bastion of logic has fallen to the deadly sway of Brianistianity! Dude, just get some pitch correction software and sing into it - you'll immediately hear the sorts of effects you can clearly hear on Brian's voice in those clips.

[37!ws]

And how much does such pitch correction software cost for a one-off experiment such as this?

[Mr. Cohen]

I'm sure you can could try a free demo. This is the 21st century. It's not some mystical technology. It's actually very simple.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

...and very affordable. Hell, there are some software programs that come with it free, such as LMMS, which is free in and of itself!

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

this thread:

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.



14 pages of this sh*t.

Please....when someone goes to the trouble of explaining something, address the explanation.  Don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA" and repeat the same stupid assertion over and over and over and over again.  Jeez.

[LostArt]

this thread:

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't make someone sound WORSE!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone sound worse.



14 pages of this sh*t.

Please....when someone goes to the trouble of explaining something, address the explanation.  Don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA" and repeat the same stupid assertion over and over and over and over again.  Jeez.

True for both sides of the argument.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

Really? How so?

[guitarfool2002]

Really? How so?

Well, for me it was a case of posting at least two pretty long posts about both Autotune and chorusing along with others who posted similar things, and how that could have affected the vocals we're discussing, and it changed nothing, other than with a few posters who agreed.

The notion that what we may hear in some cases is a chorusing effect and not pitch correction didn't change anything. We could have written "blah blah blah blah blah....." and it would have had the same result as we're here on page 14. Of course some would say my posts are like saying "blah, blah..." but that's another story.

That was my "grassy knoll" comparison, or take it as far as the moon landing conspiracies...people will hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see, and at some point it becomes like talking into a dead phone.

That photo of Oswald holding the papers in front of his neck with the rifle...some *still* see Oliver Stone's fantasy version of a mystery guy with an X-Acto knife cropping and altering that shot for Life magazine in the film even after additional photos from that same day surfaced. What can you do except put out the facts and answer questions?

In this case it does cut both ways.

And did/does anyone hear pitch correction on Fallon's show?

[LostArt]

Really? How so?

"They're not using Autotune, because Brian is singing flat!  Autotune wouldn't allow someone to sound flat, and I'm not talking a whole step or two whole steps.  I'm talking, say, 30 cents flat!! It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a dodgy technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone who sings a B instead of an F sound like they're singing the wrong note.

"But he's not singing a wrong note, he's singing a few cents flat!  Autotune wouldn't allow someone to sound a few cents flat if it was doing it's job. It's called AUTOTUNE, for Christ's sake!"

Someone offers a dodgy technical explanation as to exactly why Autotune would make someone who sings a B instead of an F sound like they're singing the wrong note.