The Autotune Thread

[Wirestone]

I wish that everyone here had a clip available of Brian appearing on Steve Dahl's radio show back in 97-98. He and Joe were showing up to talk about Imagination. Brian had a keyboard and played and sang some. But Joe had him hooked up to the most ridiculous sounding vocal effects unit. IIRC, it was mainly industrial-strength reverb, but it was the opposite of natural. It sounded good on one number, but it eventually got wonky and they turned it off.

Likewise, late in 98, Brian performed his first live show (although not with the current live band). For all the numbers from Imagination, he basically lip synced (they claim he sang along with pre-recorded vocals, but ... yeah ...). And the other numbers may not have been synched, but they were overdubbed so much in post-production, I'm not even sure how he did at the time.

The point is, if Joe is indeed involved in how this is all going down, he well may think that having some sort of effect applied to Brian's live vocal is essential. He probably hasn't followed BW's touring career that closely, and doesn't think anything of turning to an effects box if he thinks Brian is being outsung. I don't think it's done with ill-intent, and I think Billy's notion of a chorusing effect is interesting (and seems to comport with some recent YT vids). That being said, without a full show with clear audio, it's hard to tell how it all works. Maybe there are different effects. Maybe they're turned up more in some songs than others. It's hard to say.

Anyway. The point is, there is ample history of this kind of thing. And if Joe is helping to mastermind it, we have our responsible party.

[guitarfool2002]

Mind if I ask what chrousing is?

In this case, it's a plug-in . Chorus is an effect that takes your original signal, makes a copy of it, slightly detunes it, and sends it to the amp mixed with your original signal. The effect sounds as if more than one player is playing, and the detuning is to approximate the sound of two players who are never perfectly in tune. Usually it's used on guitars, not vocals. So yeah, it sounds like Brian's vocals are processed, but it's not auto-tune.

Everyone feel free to ignore this as happened with the earlier answer to "How does Autotune work", but the origins of chorusing come from multitrack recording and the doubling of a lead vocal track. As heard on Les Paul and Mary Ford records from the early 50's, originally, when you sing the same vocal notes over a vocal already on tape, it cannot match exactly, it's not humanly possible, so the differences between the pitches create a phasing-filtering effect that can sound metallic or even robotic, depending on how far apart (pitch-wise, rhythmically) the notes really are. If you alter it even further and stretch them even further apart, it creates a "comb filter" effect, which creates a "whooshing" noise that became known as flanging and which the band The Small Faces rode to a mega-hit drugged out sounding record called "Itchykoo Park", although that wasn't the first by far: Les Paul did it, and so did Stan Ross at Gold Star. The Beatles used it a lot in '67. Everyone followed. Tape flanging is beautiful.

Devices were developed to enable doubling a vocal or any part electronically - at Abbey Road, it was called Automatic Double Tracking, or ADT. Guitarists wanted that sound too, of overdubbing and doubling a part, so pedals and effects used the process Billy C described, and thus we had the Roland Jazz Chorus amp and various Boss and other chorus pedals for guitars. Again, simulating a doubled track.

So it stands to reason that:

A. Brian doubled lead and backing vocals *a lot* in the 1960's and beyond on his productions, creating a wall of vocals and creating that sheen which made the vocals swirl and jump out of the mix...it was a signature sound for Beach Boys vocals, what if he or someone else wanted that sound in 2012 on a reunion stage? Chorusing - natural or electronic, is not the same as pitch correction.

and B. If you have upwards of ten voices singing parts and those parts are being doubled in the blend, you have voices singing the same notes which would create natural chorusing...if you have 5 Beach Boys in the studio, you would double them on an overdub for that sound. If you have ten guys singing live, you can get the sound naturally. If you have two guys singing the same melody and one is veering a bit off pitch from the other, the chorusing effect will become more noticeable.

And chorusing/doubling does smooth out a lot of pitchy notes.

Just sayin'.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

THANK YOU. One thing a lot ( ) of people are forgetting is the fact that on his solo shows, Brian's vocals were very dry , a little too much if you ask me. I think in this case the pendulum has been swung too far the other way.

[anazgnos]

as quoted above from another thread, we can put the autotuning controversy to rest -- I did an experiment running a youtube clip of Heroes and Villains from this tour at half speed through the Amazing Slowdowner (changes tempo without changing key) and have proven that there is no autotuning. If there were, then Brian's slurs should be arpeggiated, and they are not. Brian is not being autotuned this tour. Rather -- he's singing well.  Maybe he has taken on some new vocal techniques that make him sound weird to those used to his singing from before.

Plugins like Amazing Slowdowner or Paulstretch use a ton smoothing and interpolation between the stretched samples. The point of those kinds of tools are to produce a pleasing and listenable result, not a scientifically bit-perfect recreation of the original audio.  It's not clear that you would get exactly the results you think, to say nothing of the fact that there are better sources to "experiment" with than many times re-encoded youtube audio.

I agree that Brian's singing well - he sounds totally into it on that "You're So Good to Me", his delivery is tight and he's really on top of it for the most part.  I just wish I could hear his voice.

[lance]

haven§t they been applying some sort of trickery to their live vocals since the late sixties, some automatic live doubling, as guitarfool says. I listened to something on you tube from one of the shows last week and it didnt sound so much like autotune to me as it sounded like there were two Brians singing, one hitting the right note, one a little flat.

[LostArt]

And let's not forget this...people that were at the shows say it sounded good, except for the beginning of the New Orleans show, when they didn't have time for a proper sound check, and it took a few songs for the sound person to dial it in.  Other than that, almost all reviews say it sounded good at the shows.  The sound tech is mixing for the venue, and for the folks in the seats.  So, whatever reverb, compression, eq, chorusing is used, it's used to make the band sound good in the venue.  And from most reports, it does sound good.  A miniature recording device is not going to give an accurate representation of what people at the shows are hearing.  It's simply impossible.  I don't care if it's an iPhone or a higher end miniature HD recorder.  A small crappy mic fed into an HD digital recorder is going to give you an HD recording of a small crappy mic, and unless the device allows the user to adjust input gain (doubtful), the device will have an auto limiter/compressor at the input that further alters the sound.  


I'm really excited to see the show in Milwaukee on the 1st of July.
I just wish they would put some pitch correction on Brian's voice        

[desmondo]

The problem I have with this Autotune thing is that listening to various recordings and U Tube clips there are so many bum notes by them all that if Autotune was being used those bum notes wouldn't exist and they would be on all the vocalists

[Quzi]

The problem I have with this Autotune thing is that listening to various recordings and U Tube clips there are so many bum notes by them all that if Autotune was being used those bum notes wouldn't exist and they would be on all the vocalists

Most live autotuners only 'tune' the note you are singing to whatever is the closest note is. If you need to sing an F but you are naturally singing somewhere near a B, the autotune adjust that B you are singing so it's a 'perfect' B. For autotune to work, you need to be singing near the right notes all the time (something which Brian hasn't done for... a good while I'd say  )

[Autotune]

And let's not forget this...people that were at the shows say it sounded good, except for the beginning of the New Orleans show, when they didn't have time for a proper sound check, and it took a few songs for the sound person to dial it in.  Other than that, almost all reviews say it sounded good at the shows.  The sound tech is mixing for the venue, and for the folks in the seats.  So, whatever reverb, compression, eq, chorusing is used, it's used to make the band sound good in the venue.  And from most reports, it does sound good.  A miniature recording device is not going to give an accurate representation of what people at the shows are hearing.  It's simply impossible.  I don't care if it's an iPhone or a higher end miniature HD recorder.  A small crappy mic fed into an HD digital recorder is going to give you an HD recording of a small crappy mic, and unless the device allows the user to adjust input gain (doubtful), the device will have an auto limiter/compressor at the input that further alters the sound.  


I'm really excited to see the show in Milwaukee on the 1st of July.
I just wish they would put some pitch correction on Brian's voice        

I'll say it again: there was nothing robotic in Brian's performance at JazzFest. Nothing funny about his voice. It was imperfect enough, with bum notes and all. And his vocals were overall good.

If it does no correct pitch, it's not a pitch corrector. Is it that hard to understand?

BTW, regarding Wirestone's last post: I wonder if anyone has seen Joe at these shows. Is he part of the touring crew?

[LostArt]

And let's not forget this...people that were at the shows say it sounded good, except for the beginning of the New Orleans show, when they didn't have time for a proper sound check, and it took a few songs for the sound person to dial it in.  Other than that, almost all reviews say it sounded good at the shows.  The sound tech is mixing for the venue, and for the folks in the seats.  So, whatever reverb, compression, eq, chorusing is used, it's used to make the band sound good in the venue.  And from most reports, it does sound good.  A miniature recording device is not going to give an accurate representation of what people at the shows are hearing.  It's simply impossible.  I don't care if it's an iPhone or a higher end miniature HD recorder.  A small crappy mic fed into an HD digital recorder is going to give you an HD recording of a small crappy mic, and unless the device allows the user to adjust input gain (doubtful), the device will have an auto limiter/compressor at the input that further alters the sound.  


I'm really excited to see the show in Milwaukee on the 1st of July.
I just wish they would put some pitch correction on Brian's voice        

I'll say it again: there was nothing robotic in Brian's performance at JazzFest. Nothing funny about his voice. It was imperfect enough, with bum notes and all. And his vocals were overall good.

If it does no correct pitch, it's not a pitch corrector. Is it that hard to understand?

Is this post aimed at me?  Because, um, well, you know, I agree with you.

[seltaeb1012002]

The problem I have with this Autotune thing is that listening to various recordings and U Tube clips there are so many bum notes by them all that if Autotune was being used those bum notes wouldn't exist and they would be on all the vocalists

Most live autotuners only 'tune' the note you are singing to whatever is the closest note is. If you need to sing an F but you are naturally singing somewhere near a B, the autotune adjust that B you are singing so it's a 'perfect' B. For autotune to work, you need to be singing near the right notes all the time (something which Brian hasn't done for... a good while I'd say  )

Quzi is correct. Seems like the 22 people who voted "No" took over this thread. Let's not forget that this IS an issue, and that the pitch correction IS pushing Brian's off notes WAY further off than they should be. It's not chorus, doubling, etc. It's the robotic artifacts of badly done pitch correction that we're all hearing. Granted it would be harder to pick this out at a live venue (though I know I'd catch it right away. and if you search around, people that were at the venues are saying they heard it as well) This is a mistake on The Beach Boys behalf, and I hope they rectify this before the end of the tour.

The pitch correction is the only flaw of the show as far as I'm concerned. This is a rare once in a lifetime "never-thought-this-would-happen" moment. I was listening to the TX show last night and it all hit me how special it is that we have 4 original recognizable voices up there, sounding damn good for the most part. (Seems that Bruce still has a pretty solid falsetto!) OK - only other complaint - I wish they would pull Wouldn't It Be Nice down one full step. Sounds like Al's straining on that one.

It would be a better experience for me & others if they took the pitch correction off, but it's still incredible to watch this unfold.

[Autotune]

And let's not forget this...people that were at the shows say it sounded good, except for the beginning of the New Orleans show, when they didn't have time for a proper sound check, and it took a few songs for the sound person to dial it in.  Other than that, almost all reviews say it sounded good at the shows.  The sound tech is mixing for the venue, and for the folks in the seats.  So, whatever reverb, compression, eq, chorusing is used, it's used to make the band sound good in the venue.  And from most reports, it does sound good.  A miniature recording device is not going to give an accurate representation of what people at the shows are hearing.  It's simply impossible.  I don't care if it's an iPhone or a higher end miniature HD recorder.  A small crappy mic fed into an HD digital recorder is going to give you an HD recording of a small crappy mic, and unless the device allows the user to adjust input gain (doubtful), the device will have an auto limiter/compressor at the input that further alters the sound.  


I'm really excited to see the show in Milwaukee on the 1st of July.
I just wish they would put some pitch correction on Brian's voice        

I'll say it again: there was nothing robotic in Brian's performance at JazzFest. Nothing funny about his voice. It was imperfect enough, with bum notes and all. And his vocals were overall good.

If it does no correct pitch, it's not a pitch corrector. Is it that hard to understand?

Is this post aimed at me?  Because, um, well, you know, I agree with you.

Ha!
Just the first paragraph, to help illustrate your point.

[Menace Wilson]

For what it's worth...

I spent 15 years in a band with a singer who had trouble singing in tune.  We used to go through his vocals phrase by phrase, word by word, sometimes syllable by syllable, applying autotune.

My two cents:

Pitch correction would not necessarily arpeggiate glissandos.  Autotuners generally have attack settings and "humanizing" settings that allow for slides and vibrato, etc.

As for whether it's there, I think I can hear it (though it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others).  There are two main things to listen for: 1) sometimes when Brian sings something flat, the autotune catches hold of a note that's a half or whole step below the correct note.  When this happens, it sounds like Brian is holding a consistent note...but the wrong one. 2) sometimes autotune can get "confused" as to which note you are trying to sing.  In these cases you hear a split second of "wobbling" around the note before latching on to one.  

Autotune doesn't sound like chorusing, but B-Dub may have some chorusing applied to his vox as well.  

      

[Wirestone]

BTW, regarding Wirestone's last post: I wonder if anyone has seen Joe at these shows. Is he part of the touring crew?

No idea, but his main work over the last 14 years has been in producing live concerts for PBS on the Soundstage show (http://mixonline.com/post/features/audio_pbs_soundstage_steps/). This is now his expertise -- and given the stage trappings, etc., it would surprise me very much if he wasn't involved in the staging somehow.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

And, as others have observed, other voices (and all instruments) sound completely natural and unprocessed.  The recordings aren't all bad, and none are at such a low bitrate that intonation is affected. This effect is on Brian alone, and there's no way crappy mics can magically change the quality of one voice embedded in one or two audio channels, surrounded by 10 other uncorrupted voices and a full band.  To believe so requires magical thinking.

[Autotune]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected. And they are not at all a half-step off. He's flatting plain and simple. C'mon man, you gotta hear that. It's insane; people claim to have sophisticated hearing as to detect a ptich corrector, but cannot hear how many bum notes he's singing. On occasion, when this has been pointed out, some guys responded that the auotune will not correct his pitch anyway-- now that's the ultimate absurdity.

By the way, he sang this better at JazzFest. And no voice wobbling to be detected in the venue.

[RONDEMON]

Chorusing won't do those weird pitch wobbles.
He's hitting bum notes and the tuning is going crazy trying to find it.

iPhone users - download the "I Am T-Pain" app and mess around and you'll hear a very close similarity to BW's vocals on the majority of the shows.
It probably wasn't used at the Jazz Fest as the sound isn't completely customized to the artists' wishes as there's dozens of other bands using the same gear etc.

It probably isn't mixed in with what the guys on-stage are hearing in their monitors but it's definitely being mixed in with what the crowd hears.

Here's that Billy Joel autotuned National Anthem video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8smRRyoYGc

From one of the comments on there...

"Billy talked about this performance on Howard Stern today. The TV producer auto-tuned his mic without him knowing."

[b00ts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

You are right, Bill, there is very clear pitch correction on Brian's voice, but the problem here is that a) some people don't have the ears to hear it, and...

B) Some people apparently can't enjoy the Beach Boys concerts if there is autotune on Brian's voice, so they must fight a battle with everyone else, saying that there is absolutely no pitch correction, and they are 100% sure. Very strange.

In the end, it sucks and is disrespectful to Brian, but it isn't a huge deal; it is not a turd in the punchbowl of the reunion but more just a bit of fecal matter. In other words, the punch still tastes fine, and I will enjoy it until I get e. coli poisoning.

/Thread

[desmondo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected. And they are not at all a half-step off. He's flatting plain and simple. C'mon man, you gotta hear that. It's insane; people claim to have sophisticated hearing as to detect a ptich corrector, but cannot hear how many bum notes he's singing. On occasion, when this has been pointed out, some guys responded that the auotune will not correct his pitch anyway-- now that's the ultimate absurdity.

By the way, he sang this better at JazzFest. And no voice wobbling to be detected in the venue.

Yep its just not so good singing but........

1. What's the point in having autotune if it doesn't work?? - Bill you should have been asked

2. His band will know that his singing varies from night to night and they will know all about autotune and what it can't do and what it can do - I think they would have said something to say it is a crap idea and won't work

3. I have no doubt all the singers on stage would have Brian in their in-ears otherwise they wouldn't know how to harmonise with him and in Jeff's case support his leads - it really would sound rubbish with no monitors

4. ML is also off a lot on many of the songs they are doing

5. Bill - get your farm ready ;-)

[desmondo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

You are right, Bill, there is very clear pitch correction on Brian's voice, but the problem here is that a) some people don't have the ears to hear it, and...

B) Some people apparently can't enjoy the Beach Boys concerts if there is autotune on Brian's voice, so they must fight a battle with everyone else, saying that there is absolutely no pitch correction, and they are 100% sure. Very strange.

In the end, it sucks and is disrespectful to Brian, but it isn't a huge deal; it is not a turd in the punchbowl of the reunion but more just a bit of fecal matter. In other words, the punch still tastes fine, and I will enjoy it until I get e. coli poisoning.

/Thread

IMHO it is a VERY BIG DEAL because the Beach Boys are famous for their harmonies and having the best of voices and here they are using autotune - can't you get it - its like finding out Eric Clapton has been miming all these years or John Coltrane's parts were played by someone else - its a big story waiting to happen and I can't believe the BBs management hadn't thought of that.

A scummy journo could have a field day

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected.
[/quote]

I explained that: "So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse."

[/quote]

And they are not at all a half-step off. He's flatting plain and simple. C'mon man, you gotta hear that.
[/quote]

Please link a Youtube video, with the precise time at which you hear a flat note which is not a half-step (or whole-step) off, and the word he's singing when you hear this, and I'll get my guitar tuner ready,

[endofposts]

Chorusing won't do those weird pitch wobbles.
He's hitting bum notes and the tuning is going crazy trying to find it.

iPhone users - download the "I Am T-Pain" app and mess around and you'll hear a very close similarity to BW's vocals on the majority of the shows.
It probably wasn't used at the Jazz Fest as the sound isn't completely customized to the artists' wishes as there's dozens of other bands using the same gear etc.

It probably isn't mixed in with what the guys on-stage are hearing in their monitors but it's definitely being mixed in with what the crowd hears.

Here's that Billy Joel autotuned National Anthem video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8smRRyoYGc

From one of the comments on there...

"Billy talked about this performance on Howard Stern today. The TV producer auto-tuned his mic without him knowing."

Android users can use the "Tune Me" free app.  You need to pre-set the correct key of the song to make it sound most natural.  It actually sounds like your natural voice until you sing something you can't hit well.  It's not professional auto-tune, but a pretty good simulation. Auto-Tune and other pitch correctors only work well on people who can really sing and hit most of the notes or close to them.  I'm not sure why some seem confused by that.  No, auto-tune can't make everyone sound good and it makes the worst singers sound robotic when they're not exactly already close to being on-pitch.  You know, like Brian does on some of those recordings.  Although I think the main problem is he's mixed too loud, even more than any processing. At least if his mic was turned down all the flaws would be less obvious.

[desmondo]

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected.

I explained that: "So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse."

[/quote]

And they are not at all a half-step off. He's flatting plain and simple. C'mon man, you gotta hear that.
[/quote]

Please link a Youtube video, with the precise time at which you hear a flat note which is not a half-step (or whole-step) off, and the word he's singing when you hear this, and I'll get my guitar tuner ready,
[/quote]

Bill - so why use Autotune if its going to put Brian out of key anyway - doesn't make sense

[anazgnos]

1. What's the point in having autotune if it doesn't work??

There is no point, that's why they should stop using it

2. His band will know that his singing varies from night to night and they will know all about autotune and what it can't do and what it can do - I think they would have said something to say it is a crap idea and won't work

They may not have a say in the matter, and they may need to avoid rocking the boat in order to keep their jobs.

3. I have no doubt all the singers on stage would have Brian in their in-ears otherwise they wouldn't know how to harmonise with him and in Jeff's case support his leads - it really would sound rubbish with no monitors

As has been explained, standard operating procedure would be to not have the autotuned signal sent to the monitors, but only to the audience

4. ML is also off a lot on many of the songs they are doing

That sucks, but at least you can hear Mike's voice