The Autotune Thread

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

jon had a thread about the new orleans show. no autotune is being used.

That bugs the hell out of me, because I respect Mr. Stebbins and trust him. So what am I hearing? Because it really, really, really sounds like pitch correction. Of all the crappy live recordings I've ever heard, none have ever sounded like this before. We "autotuners" are hearing something that's aberrant. What is it?

[anazgnos]

jon had a thread about the new orleans show. no autotune is being used.

That bugs the hell out of me, because I respect Mr. Stebbins and trust him. So what am I hearing? Because it really, really, really sounds like pitch correction. Of all the crappy live recordings I've ever heard, none have ever sounded like this before. We "autotuners" are hearing something that's aberrant. What is it?

Jon did say he was on stage.  It's possible he was hearing an onstage mix without the vocal processing, rather than the FOH mix.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I've been thinking... Is it just Jeff backing him up?

[drbeachboy]

Nobody in the audience has heard it either. Any chance this is just reverb and echo?

[18thofMay]

I've been thinking... Is it just Jeff backing him up?

Yes

[anazgnos]

I don't think we can conclude that "nobody in the audience has heard it".  A very small handful of board members who have attended shows have reported not noticing it.

Neither Jeff nor echo would produce digital pitch-stepping artifacts.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

I don't think we can conclude that "nobody in the audience has heard it".  A very small handful of board members who have attended shows have reported not noticing it.

Neither Jeff nor echo would produce digital pitch-stepping artifacts.

+1

[drbeachboy]

I don't think we can conclude that "nobody in the audience has heard it".  A very small handful of board members who have attended shows have reported not noticing it.

Neither Jeff nor echo would produce digital pitch-stepping artifacts.

I meant the board. This is the place where the discussion is taking place.

[Ron]

There's no autotune on that video. 

[RONDEMON]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

[TV Forces]

That bugs the hell out of me, because I respect Mr. Stebbins and trust him. So what am I hearing? Because it really, really, really sounds like pitch correction. Of all the crappy live recordings I've ever heard, none have ever sounded like this before. We "autotuners" are hearing something that's aberrant. What is it?

Whatever it is, I hope you don't lose too much sleep tonight.
I wonder if either Obama or Romney will weigh in on this most important of issues.

[Zach95]

It would be nice to get a definitive answer, is all.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

That sounds like chrousing...

[OGoldin]

Jon as usual is right.  I converted the clip to mp3 and then ran it through the Amazing Slowdowner at half speed (this is a program that can change key or tempo without changing other factors).  If there were autotune then the slurs from one note to another should sound like arpeggios -- and they don't.  He's definitely slurring from one note to another.  No autotune at all.

[Autotune]

Beach Boys fan need a sort of trainwreck theory permanently. Up until a couple weeks ago the tour would be a disaster because Jeff Foskett would be too loud in the mix. Before that, the reunion was meh without Blondie. Before that, the DIA video was fake because David had not taken part in the recording (allegedly, of course). And on and on.

Recently the live autotune thing came along.

Thank God we now have "Spring Vacation" to rant about.

I personally have not made any complaints about Foskett or Blondie or Do It Again.  In each of those cases, I would presume that certain people were expressing their reservations about the things they personally had reservations about, but you're acting as though it's really all the same people who can just be swept under the same rug for being perpetually aggrieved.  I'm not really convinced that this is the case.

The fact that there are numerous and varied complaints about the Beach Boys in 2012 is not actually evidence that all complaints are invalid, and that everything is perfectly swell.

My point is that live autotune is the trainwreck fan theory of the week.

Go to hell. I am not here to bitch and complain. I'm here to learn more about my favorite band. I'm going to a show to hear my favorite band perform live. I am mildly critically about a decision somebody made. Have you never criticized anything before? I'm sick of your tone, your obnoxious assumptions and your dismissive attitude. Go to the Blueboard if you want to blindly worship Brian Wilson. I'm allowed to express my opinion on a message board IN A THREAD DEVOTED TO THIS TOPIC without your bull merda. I love this band and I want to see them perform to the best of their abilities. Apparently, the only thing BB fans like more than bitching about the BBs is bitching about other BB fans. You don't hear it? Fine. That's not our fault. I don't care. Enjoy it, and go foda yourself.

Nicely put.

I just wish that when all is said and done and reality proves you wrong, you step forward and acknowledge it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Jon as usual is right.  I converted the clip to mp3 and then ran it through the Amazing Slowdowner at half speed (this is a program that can change key or tempo without changing other factors).  If there were autotune then the slurs from one note to another should sound like arpeggios -- and they don't.  He's definitely slurring from one note to another.  No autotune at all.

I did the same thing. What you guys are hearing is chrousing, NOT auto-tune.

[endofposts]

jon had a thread about the new orleans show. no autotune is being used.

Jon Stebbins isn't God.  He's just a writer. His opinion is his opinion, it's not fact.

[endofposts]

Jon as usual is right.  I converted the clip to mp3 and then ran it through the Amazing Slowdowner at half speed (this is a program that can change key or tempo without changing other factors).  If there were autotune then the slurs from one note to another should sound like arpeggios -- and they don't.  He's definitely slurring from one note to another.  No autotune at all.

I did the same thing. What you guys are hearing is chrousing, NOT auto-tune.

I'm not sure that's any better.  It does sound like something or other is being done, but there are many things besides autotune or autotune equivalents. 
It is autotune, or something, it doesn't sound like a human voice.  It sounds just terrible. 

Even if people want to think or think they know Brian's voice is being digitally altered using some process or other, can we all agree he sounds awful?  He does.  It's not that he doesn't hit the right notes, but he hits the wrong notes at a high volume, and his vocal timbre is unpleasant. His voice is mixed way too loud and much louder than any other singer in the band when he does a lead.  Mike's voice may not be that great, either, but he's not loud in the mix.  The mixing of Brian's voice is just too loud and doesn't match with the other lead singers on all the videos and audio clips that have been released.  It's like the ghost of Murry Wilson has comandeered the sound board, yelling, "Surge!"  If Brian really does just sing loud and Mike just sings softly, then turn down Brian, and turn up Mike.  Is that hard to do or something?

[Zach95]

Mind if I ask what chrousing is?

[OGoldin]

as quoted above from another thread, we can put the autotuning controversy to rest -- I did an experiment running a youtube clip of Heroes and Villains from this tour at half speed through the Amazing Slowdowner (changes tempo without changing key) and have proven that there is no autotuning. If there were, then Brian's slurs should be arpeggiated, and they are not. Brian is not being autotuned this tour. Rather -- he's singing well.  Maybe he has taken on some new vocal techniques that make him sound weird to those used to his singing from before.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think what we're hearing is a pitchy singer (Brian) who seems to search for the pitch AS he's singing a note (sometimes he finds it, sometimes not) and then with Jeff or whoever else trying to subtly double him ON pitch. Not even trying to double him really, but rather, trying to anticipate when Brian might not be able to hit a note or simply not sing.

That said, I think Brian sounds fantastic when he's on! He kicks ass on California Dreaming especially!

[endofposts]

I mentioned this on another thread, but -- just to put the autotuning controversy to rest -- I did an experiment running a youtube clip of Heroes and Villains from this tour at half speed through the Amazing Slowdowner (changes tempo without changing key) and have proven that there is no autotuning. If there were, then Brian's slurs should be arpeggiated, and they are not. Brian is not being autotuned this tour. Rather -- he's singing well.  Maybe he has taken on some new vocal techniques that make him sound weird to those used to his singing from before.

Everyone has a different definition of singing well.  I guess maybe you could say he has a new technique to make him louder, but if he has, he's way louder than anybody else and it sounds odd.  If he sang all the right notes,  his voice is overwhelming the mix and it's harsh.  I also can't figure out why that video of "Heroes & Villains" makes him sound like one of those guys who calls the Muslims to prayer when he sings "innocent girl."  His pitch is wavering between a couple of different tones on each vowel. If that's just a new singing technique (not a digital effect) to make his singing sound like that intentionally, he should stop.

[Autotune]

I think what we're hearing is a pitchy singer (Brian) who seems to search for the pitch AS he's singing a note (sometimes he finds it, sometimes not) and then with Jeff or whoever else trying to subtly double him ON pitch. Not even trying to double him really, but rather, trying to anticipate when Brian might not be able to hit a note or simply not sing.

That said, I think Brian sounds fantastic when he's on! He kicks ass on California Dreaming especially!

Jeff doubles him occasionally only (part of GV, TWGMTR if he screws up and little else), and you can easily tell. Alan doubles him in the chorus of YSGTM. Other than that, it's Brian on his own.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

I don't know anything about digital vocal processing. If it isn't pitch correction, it's something else and I can accept that. There is something going on with his voice, I believe that to be a fact. I do not believe that any kind of vocal technique can make BW sound like that. It's being manipulated, and frankly, it sounds worse than his natural voice.  

Dr. Lenny, I hear it. I've heard it in every vocal clip that's been posted. Fifty-six percent of the respondents to the poll at the top of this thread agree (not that said results are proof, I believe at least half of any population of voters in any context are idiots). Honestly, no matter who denies the use of vocal processing, or how adamantly they assert their position, I will probably choose to believe my own perception. Perhaps I am a fool. Perhaps you are.

Already, band insiders have denied it. Mr. Stebbins has denied it. Many on this board deny it. At this point, given the clip of "You're So Good to Me" posted above, I feel justified to stand by my assertion that something is being used to alter his vocals digitally, to their detriment. I can't imagine what it would take to make me admit I was wrong. Pristine soundboard mixes? A denial from the Man himself? It's tough to discount that which you directly perceive. I'm mystified that others don't hear it, as it sounds so clear to me. So there you go. I can't believe you can't hear it, and you can't believe I can. I'll admit I'm no expert. I'll admit that I, and others, could be wrong. But man. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise.

EDIT: I'm sorry for my outburst re: Dr. Lenny earlier in the thread. Dr. Lenny, I'm sorry. I've enjoyed many of your posts. My motives are pure, though my heart may be tainted by bitterness and cholesterol.

EDIT (again, sorry): Jeff has doubled Brian for a long time. Are there any examples of this effect being produced at past solo shows? I don't believe it's a matter of volume or doubling. We'd have heard it before, if that was the case.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Mind if I ask what chrousing is?

In this case, it's a plug-in . Chorus is an effect that takes your original signal, makes a copy of it, slightly detunes it, and sends it to the amp mixed with your original signal. The effect sounds as if more than one player is playing, and the detuning is to approximate the sound of two players who are never perfectly in tune. Usually it's used on guitars, not vocals. So yeah, it sounds like Brian's vocals are processed, but it's not auto-tune.