Upcoming BW interview in Village Voice (June 8)

[Cam Mott]

Here's my interpretation, soapbox please: The only interest in movements Brian expressed in the 60s was movements within songs not within albums. There is '66/7 discussion of movements in songs and '66/7 evidence of movements in songs but no known* '66/7 discussion of movements or evidence of movements in the album. The '66/7 evidence shows he had the songs and their "movements" thought out and sequenced when he went into the studio, so he wasn't struggling to invent a sequence, he knew the sequence before he recorded. The sequence was within the songs. The album sequence may or not have been finalized but with a twelve track album where all the movements are internal to each track the album sequence wouldn't be the big deal it became when the sequence for BWPS was invented from the disassembled song/track movements. It is as likely that he had a final sequence for the album thought out as it is that he did not have one thought out it seems to me. As much as I want to believe that SMiLE was so romantically unobtainable and such a heroic struggle and as movementy and seguey as Sgt. Pepper and BWPS, I just don't see it in what is actually there.

Sermon: SMiLE wasn't junked because he couldn't pull it together, it was junked because he didn't dig it when it was pulled together. Respectfully.

*known BSS [before "Smile Sessions"]

[desmondo]

Here's my interpretation, soapbox please: The only interest in movements Brian expressed in the 60s was movements within songs not within albums. There is '66/7 discussion of movements in songs and '66/7 evidence of movements in songs but no known* '66/7 discussion of movements or evidence of movements in the album. The '66/7 evidence shows he had the songs and their "movements" thought out and sequenced when he went into the studio, so he wasn't struggling to invent a sequence, he knew the sequence before he recorded. The sequence was within the songs. The album sequence may or not have been finalized but with a twelve track album where all the movements are internal to each track the album sequence wouldn't be the big deal it became when the sequence for BWPS was invented from the disassembled song/track movements. It is as likely that he had a final sequence for the album thought out as it is that he did not have one thought out it seems to me. As much as I want to believe that SMiLE was so romantically unobtainable and such a heroic struggle and as movementy and seguey as Sgt. Pepper and BWPS, I just don't see it in what is actually there.

Sermon: SMiLE wasn't junked because he couldn't pull it together, it was junked because he didn't dig it when it was pulled together. Respectfully.

*known BSS [before "Smile Sessions"]

Cam

I do find a certain amount of favour with this particularly regarding the internal movements and how various fades and hard edits worked within these. However there are certain things that to me are apparent and I believe H&V is a good example of this - forgive me but I may be slightly out with some timings etc but I hope you get the gist of my thoughts. In essence I don't believe Brian had the songs all thought out in the beginning mainly because everything - well just about - was modular. He may have had a theme for each song but not much more.

H&V - the main verse melody part - was essentially conceived as a song in the sandbox with VDP present. I have no doubt that Brian had the chords and the melody before VDP joined him and conveyed the theme to VDP who then came up with those fantastic words - for me H&V is the perfect blend of words and music ever committed to tape.

In addition to the main verse bit, there is also the chorus (BR theme) - the two together make up a standard verse/chorus thing.

We also have the False Barnyard and Western Theme and of course the piano demo that includes Barnyard and IIGS. There is also talk of YAMS making an appearance at some stage and of course the Cantina section and late 66/67 H&V sessions among others.

So Brian has the verse and chorus but needs other stuff to truly make it a trip across the Wild West. Hence you get various sections that I think we are all agreed could have fitted within H&V at any time (various board members have done just that including myself).

I believe the problem he had was that he had all these sections for H&V and could not find a version that he was totally happy with (it would have done my head in). I think this was repeated on numerous songs including VT, CIFTM, The Elements and maybe WC. I think it was as much a technical thing as much as pressure from outside.

It was only in 2003 when Darian turned up with it all loaded on Pro-Tools that life became a lot easier - adding and taking away sections was just a click of a mouse rather than splicing, cutting and taping back together. I think that allowed Brian very quickly to realise his vision for SMILE.

So respectfully I disagree with your sermon in that I believe Brian junked Smile because he couldn't pull it together.

On another point, whilst I do believe that SMILE 2004 is the finished version - I do have  a problem with the third movement. On purely a personal level I think the first and second movements are absolutely fantastic - everything about them makes sense.

Its the third movement that bugs me - IIGS (the song) doesn't fit and IMHO has greater musical and lyrical links with the first movement as does on OAH.

Lets hope the TSS answers some questions

[Andrew G. Doe]

Here's my opinion.

1 - no-one knows much of anything. Even Brian. Maybe especially Brian (I'll say why I think so later). We're dealing with mutilated scraps, the odd, cryptic press comment (which may or may not have been invented/inflated by Derek Taylor) and a whole mess of conflicting interviews from 1966-2011. Even the guys restoring Napoleon or Metropolis had the original script to guide them. We've got, at best, a handwritten list which Brian may or may not have dictated, a back cover working proof he may or may not have seen and some tape box notations that doubtless made sense to whoever wrote them 40+ years ago but are now as lucid as Linear A. Granted, religions have been founded on far shakier foundations but you see my point. Everyone - everyone, yours truly included - is to a greater or lesser degree manipulating those few scraps, trying to make them fit into our own personal idee fixee and dispensing with anything that contradicts our chosen credo. It all boils down to the same result: no-one knows.

2 - Brian has absolutely no interest in the past. This isn't just my opinion, but that of people who have known him for decades. His musical recall can be truly jaw-dropping, as can his memory for faces, but the past is truly another country for him. They don't just do things differently there, as far as he's concerned no such place exists unless he's reminded of it. Once a project is completed, recorded and toured, that's it. Been there, done that, next. Therefore, once Brian signed off on The Smile Sessions nearly a year ago, it fell off his radar until he was called in to audition work in progress, as it will again until he's presented with the final (?) product to OK, and again when he has to get on the media treadmill to talk about it. Which, the observant may have noted, he's really not a huge fan of.

So, while it's always entirely possible that some has indeed accidentally stumbled upon The Truth, for anyone - anyone at all - to unequivocally state that they have cracked it, that they know The Answer is at best spurious, more often an irritating exercise in self-delusion (something I achieved back in the late 70s/early 80s on the scantiest of material evidence: did it with Spring as well, but that's another story entirely...). The Smile riddle will never be solved because, unless there's a vault full of neatly labelled safety reels, session notes and AFM contracts somewhere, insoluble. In my view, the best kind of mystery.  

[desmondo]

Here's my opinion.

1 - no-one knows much of anything. Even Brian. Maybe especially Brian (I'll say why I think so later). We're dealing with mutilated scraps, the odd, cryptic press comment (which may or may not have been invented/inflated by Derek Taylor) and a whole mess of conflicting interviews from 1966-2011. Even the guys restoring Napoleon or Metropolis had the original script to guide them. We've got, at best, a handwritten list which Brian may or may not have dictated, a back cover working proof he may or may not have seen and some tape box notations that doubtless made sense to whoever wrote them 40+ years ago but are now as lucid as Linear A. Granted, religions have been founded on far shakier foundations but you see my point. Everyone - everyone, yours truly included - is to a greater or lesser degree manipulating those few scraps, trying to make them fit into our own personal idee fixee and dispensing with anything that contradicts our chosen credo. It all boils down to the same result: no-one knows.

2 - Brian has absolutely no interest in the past. This isn't just my opinion, but that of people who have known him for decades. His musical recall can be truly jaw-dropping, as can his memory for faces, but the past is truly another country for him. They don't just do things differently there, as far as he's concerned no such place exists unless he's reminded of it. Once a project is completed, recorded and toured, that's it. Been there, done that, next. Therefore, once Brian signed off on The Smile Sessions nearly a year ago, it fell off his radar until he was called in to audition work in progress, as it will again until he's presented with the final (?) product to OK, and again when he has to get on the media treadmill to talk about it. Which, the observant may have noted, he's really not a huge fan of.

So, while it's always entirely possible that some has indeed accidentally stumbled upon The Truth, for anyone - anyone at all - to unequivocally state that they have cracked it, that they know The Answer is at best spurious, more often an irritating exercise in self-delusion (something I achieved back in the late 70s/early 80s on the scantiest of material evidence: did it with Spring as well, but that's another story entirely...). The Smile riddle will never be solved because, unless there's a vault full of neatly labelled safety reels, session notes and AFM contracts somewhere, insoluble. In my view, the best kind of mystery.  

That is what makes it such fun - n'est-ce pas?

[Jonas]

Sermon: SMiLE wasn't junked because he couldn't pull it together, it was junked because he didn't dig it when it was pulled together. Respectfully.

I like this line a lot.

[18thofMay]

Here's my opinion.

1 - no-one knows much of anything. Even Brian. Maybe especially Brian (I'll say why I think so later). We're dealing with mutilated scraps, the odd, cryptic press comment (which may or may not have been invented/inflated by Derek Taylor) and a whole mess of conflicting interviews from 1966-2011. Even the guys restoring Napoleon or Metropolis had the original script to guide them. We've got, at best, a handwritten list which Brian may or may not have dictated, a back cover working proof he may or may not have seen and some tape box notations that doubtless made sense to whoever wrote them 40+ years ago but are now as lucid as Linear A. Granted, religions have been founded on far shakier foundations but you see my point. Everyone - everyone, yours truly included - is to a greater or lesser degree manipulating those few scraps, trying to make them fit into our own personal idee fixee and dispensing with anything that contradicts our chosen credo. It all boils down to the same result: no-one knows.

2 - Brian has absolutely no interest in the past. This isn't just my opinion, but that of people who have known him for decades. His musical recall can be truly jaw-dropping, as can his memory for faces, but the past is truly another country for him. They don't just do things differently there, as far as he's concerned no such place exists unless he's reminded of it. Once a project is completed, recorded and toured, that's it. Been there, done that, next. Therefore, once Brian signed off on The Smile Sessions nearly a year ago, it fell off his radar until he was called in to audition work in progress, as it will again until he's presented with the final (?) product to OK, and again when he has to get on the media treadmill to talk about it. Which, the observant may have noted, he's really not a huge fan of.

So, while it's always entirely possible that some has indeed accidentally stumbled upon The Truth, for anyone - anyone at all - to unequivocally state that they have cracked it, that they know The Answer is at best spurious, more often an irritating exercise in self-delusion (something I achieved back in the late 70s/early 80s on the scantiest of material evidence: did it with Spring as well, but that's another story entirely...). The Smile riddle will never be solved because, unless there's a vault full of neatly labelled safety reels, session notes and AFM contracts somewhere, insoluble. In my view, the best kind of mystery.  

About time....
Oh and I concur

[Cam Mott]

I agree with everything my esteemed pal Andrew said. The best we can do is take the contemporaneous evidence and make the best interpretation we can and not get too married to any interpretation.

[desmondo]

I agree with everything my esteemed pal Andrew said. The best we can do is take the contemporaneous evidence and make the best interpretation we can and not get too married to any interpretation.

Agreed - respectfully

[Cam Mott]

Oh yeah, and there is contemporaneous documentation of movements within songs but no contemporaneous evidence [of any kind that I'm aware of] for album movements. 

OK, I'll go lay down in the air conditioning.

[juggler]

The Village Voice has posted more of the interview on its blog...
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/06/qa_brian_wilson.php

[Andrew G. Doe]

Honestly, you have to admit - that's a pretty pointless interview. Brian was on auto-pilot.

[pixletwin]

Do you have a relationship with the other members right now?

No, I don't. Not really, no. I'm not really interested in them.

So you don't have plans to reunite for the 50th anniversary?

Right. No.

Are the original Smile studio sessions still coming out later this year?

Yeah, they are.


Is there anything on there you're looking forward to the public hearing for the first time?

Not really, no.

 

[Micha]

Sermon: SMiLE wasn't junked because he couldn't pull it together, it was junked because he didn't dig it when it was pulled together. Respectfully.

I can go with that absolutely, because it doesn't actually contradict itself: He couldn't pull it together in a way/fashion/manner that he dug. That's why he kept recording and junking new sections, I think.

Cam, what do you think how thought out Brian's "original vision" was? Do you think he exactly knew what 12 songs were to be SMiLE when he started recording or could that "vision" have evolved during the recording process as Peter Reum thinks (to whom I agree about this)?

And could you explain "soapbox please" to me? I'm not a native English speaker, but that phrase sound humorous to me.

as movementy and seguey as Sgt. Pepper

I don't see Pepper being movementy. SMiLE does have three main themes: America, childhood (or cycle of life, whatever), and Elements. Whether Brian saw that as "movements" in 1966/67 is indeed unclear and open to interpretation.

no-one knows much of anything.

That's true, I think, that's why I see my views as interpretation, not as fact. Hey, is "Linear A" common knowledge? 

[Cam Mott]

Micha,

The soapbox means I'm giving a public speech, sometimes as a crackpot.

To me too much is made of the re-recording. He put a lot of work in the GV single and it got done. He put a lot of work in the H&V single and the alleged Vt single and they got done. That seems like not being lost, it was just the way he did it with the singles. There is no over re-recording for the rest of the album imo.

To me it seems like SMiLE was being something in the fashion of his other albums of the period based on his desire to emulate Rubber Soul, a collection tracks that were separate but "belonged together" like paintings in an exhibition. So that was the album concept whether that changed over time or not I don't know, I don't see any evidence for it beyond a possible re-shuffle of the track order. The concepts for the non-single tracks don't seem to have changed much. The singles' concepts did change it appears, a progressive improving I take it, just like GV.

Sgt. Pepper is more seguey to you maybe?  "Movements" is probably getting abused, but you know people do see that as movements. Brian said in 1966 he wanted songs to have "movements". He documented SMiLE tracks for songs as "movements". Reporters and critics of the time saw movements in the songs. Years later Brian claimed he wanted SMiLE to have "movements" [was that for songs or album?] like Rhapsody In Blue. Does RIB have "movements"? If it does, isn't it a song with movements? It has been discussed but I forget.

Edit: According to Wikipedia [which we all know is never inaccurate, right?] : "A rhapsody in music is a one-movement work that is episodic yet integrated, free-flowing in structure, featuring a range of highly contrasted moods, colour and tonality." I don't know if that is what Brian meant. Sounds more like Brian's description of Rubber Soul.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Hey, is "Linear A" common knowledge? 

If you're a Minoan scholar, sure.

[Roger Ryan]

And could you explain "soapbox please" to me? I'm not a native English speaker, but that phrase sound humorous to me.

Specifically, I believe it was common for preachers, salesmen, etc. to stand on a box (I assume ones used to ship soap) on a public street so they could be seen above the heads of any crowds that may gather. The slang "to get on a soapbox" means you are going to give a speech to try and convince others you are right.

[hypehat]

There's another 'interview' which is kinda heartbreaking from the journalists perspective, because he's a really big fan and Brian can't be bothered. The ending sentence has near Kafka levels of despair....


http://www.nowtoronto.com/guides/nxne/2011/story.cfm?content=181103

Obviously his moodswings have swung the other way....

[Andrew G. Doe]

Most irresponsible piece. Naming Brian's fave deli - I can see a whole bunch of the more lunatic fringe excitedly Googling it. Classy journalism.

Plus, I'd question the opening, unless Brian went to Toronto for that one interview.

[rab2591]

Most irresponsible piece. Naming Brian's fave deli - I can see a whole bunch of the more lunatic fringe excitedly Googling it. Classy journalism.

Plus, I'd question the opening, unless Brian went to Toronto for that one interview.

After reading that piece that I couldn't believe Brian's management linked that article on his facebook page.

[bgas]

Yep, here it is! 

http://www.yelp.com/biz/beverly-glen-deli-los-angeles

[hypehat]

Most irresponsible piece. Naming Brian's fave deli - I can see a whole bunch of the more lunatic fringe excitedly Googling it. Classy journalism.

Plus, I'd question the opening, unless Brian went to Toronto for that one interview.

After reading that piece that I couldn't believe Brian's management linked that article on his facebook page.

I can barely believe they published it!

[Roger Ryan]

The ending sentence has near Kafka levels of despair....

Well, Brian's been a fan of Morton's for a long time now and the interviewer did want to talk about restaurants. Personally, I find it a little pathetic that the reporter would dismiss Brian's favorite deli because it's not as elite as some of the city's more high-end establishments. I like fine cuisine, but I still wouldn't be eating at Mr. Chow's and its like all the time even if I had Brian's money.

[No. Fourteen]

Brian has mentioned these places in an interview before:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/24/entertainment/et-favewknd24


And yes, I googled the Beverly Glen for my last trip to L.A.  (Though I didn't end up going.)

[juggler]

Plus, I'd question the opening, unless Brian went to Toronto for that one interview.

Brian was in Toronto within the last couple weeks.

He was clearly present in CBC studios for two different interviews.
http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/guest-page/brian-wilson.html
http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2011/05/24/brian-wilson-clip/

[Andrew G. Doe]

Plus, I'd question the opening, unless Brian went to Toronto for that one interview.

Brian was in Toronto within the last couple weeks.

He was clearly present in CBC studios for two different interviews.
http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/guest-page/brian-wilson.html
http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2011/05/24/brian-wilson-clip/

Thanks for pointing that out. I need to eat more fish.