SMiLE Sessions box set!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

One more thing real quick...the reason why I wish Brian hadn't touched drugs isn't because "oh he got high, that's bad m'kay". It wasn't the drugs that f***ed him up...it was the huge amount of drugs he took. At the very least, I wish he had done drugs in moderation .If you had someone who was "sensitive" like Brian and coming from a family with a history of emotional issues (to say the least), then have them use amounts of coke that would make John Belushi raise an eyebrow, AND using speed, AND drinking heavily, AND had previously dropped acid back when it was stronger than it is now, AND later on was overly prescribed the wrong meds, AND abused Xanax by choice while ingesting large amounts of caffeine... you are no longer just dealing with emotional issues, you're talking about legitimate neurological damage. That is not a good thing at all. We're past the point of expanding consciousness and venturing into the realm of causing actual permanent brain and neurological injury. Do any of you think Brian enjoys his condition now?
Do you think he likes the fact that he has difficulty playing the piano and singing at the same time?

[Andrew G. Doe]

This thread is wildly entertaining . . . 

We aim to please. 

[MBE]

I love almost all of  the Beach Boys pre 1975 music and that includes the Smile sessions. That said to me it is simply good music. I never bothered with much speculation I just listened to what I could and enjoyed. I understand what the non release meant as far as them loosing their hipness or excellerating Brian's mental decline (one that started before Smile or even strong drugs) but today I don't feel the need to read much into it. It's really excellent music but it's just one period of interest for me. I find everything they did from 1961-80 fascinating to some extent though I think it was downhill 15 Big Ones on except for Dennis (at least musically).

[letsmakeit31]

I think we'er all going/or are a bit crazy now!!!, I know I am for sure!!!
COME ON POWERS TO BE!!!! MAKE WITH THE TRACKLIST LICKIE SPIT!!!!.
ANY INFO WOULD BE GREAT PLEASEEEEEEEEE.
Then at least we have something new to talk about phew rant over, ok back to the bank hoilday weekend

[Mike's Beard]

I think if I read many more of these posts my head is going to explode. Just like that guy in Scanners. Imagine that.

[The Heartical Don]

I think if I read many more of these posts my head is going to explode. Just like that guy in Scanners. Imagine that.

 

[The Heartical Don]

One more thing real quick...the reason why I wish Brian hadn't touched drugs isn't because "oh he got high, that's bad m'kay". It wasn't the drugs that fodido him up...it was the huge amount of drugs he took. At the very least, I wish he had done drugs in moderation .If you had someone who was "sensitive" like Brian and coming from a family with a history of emotional issues (to say the least), then have them use amounts of coke that would make John Belushi raise an eyebrow, AND using speed, AND drinking heavily, AND had previously dropped acid back when it was stronger than it is now, AND later on was overly prescribed the wrong meds, AND abused Xanax by choice while ingesting large amounts of caffeine... you are no longer just dealing with emotional issues, you're talking about legitimate neurological damage. That is not a good thing at all. We're past the point of expanding consciousness and venturing into the realm of causing actual permanent brain and neurological injury. Do any of you think Brian enjoys his condition now?
Do you think he likes the fact that he has difficulty playing the piano and singing at the same time?

Hmmm... I think that Brian probably is the last person on earth who would have been able to 'use drugs in moderation'. Truckloads of cocaine and cannabis, rivers of alcohol, amphetamines, and the occasional acid tab all point to this conclusion. IMHO he was simply unable to limit himself, after having experienced the effects of these substances. I'd call his ingestion habits 'psychiatric', not in a derogatory sense, mind. Patients may smoke a cigar, for instance, but usually they can't enjoy it at all - they suck and inhale like wild, merely to get the maximum nicotine kick. Which is short by its nature, so they chain-smoke cigars, if given the chance. Should they be allowed to drink alcohol, they would drink themselves into oblivion ASAP.

It's sad to say that Brian acted just like this, according to the sources I read. Food, coffee, booze, cigarettes, cocaine, speed, cannabis... everything in unbelievably immoderate quantities.

So: I cannot for the life of me imagine a 40-year old Brian enoying a nice glass of red wine in the late evening, after having spent a fruitful day in the studio.

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

[letsmakeit31]

One more thing real quick...the reason why I wish Brian hadn't touched drugs isn't because "oh he got high, that's bad m'kay". It wasn't the drugs that fodido him up...it was the huge amount of drugs he took. At the very least, I wish he had done drugs in moderation .If you had someone who was "sensitive" like Brian and coming from a family with a history of emotional issues (to say the least), then have them use amounts of coke that would make John Belushi raise an eyebrow, AND using speed, AND drinking heavily, AND had previously dropped acid back when it was stronger than it is now, AND later on was overly prescribed the wrong meds, AND abused Xanax by choice while ingesting large amounts of caffeine... you are no longer just dealing with emotional issues, you're talking about legitimate neurological damage. That is not a good thing at all. We're past the point of expanding consciousness and venturing into the realm of causing actual permanent brain and neurological injury. Do any of you think Brian enjoys his condition now?
Do you think he likes the fact that he has difficulty playing the piano and singing at the same time?

Hmmm... I think that Brian probably is the last person on earth who would have been able to 'use drugs in moderation'. Truckloads of cocaine and cannabis, rivers of alcohol, amphetamines, and the occasional acid tab all point to this conclusion. IMHO he was simply unable to limit himself, after having experienced the effects of these substances. I'd call his ingestion habits 'psychiatric', not in a derogatory sense, mind. Patients may smoke a cigar, for instance, but usually they can't enjoy it at all - they suck and inhale like wild, merely to get the maximum nicotine kick. Which is short by its nature, so they chain-smoke cigars, if given the chance. Should they be allowed to drink alcohol, they would drink themselves into oblivion ASAP.

It's sad to say that Brian acted just like this, according to the sources I read. Food, coffee, booze, cigarettes, cocaine, speed, cannabis... everything in unbelievably immoderate quantities.

So: I cannot for the life of me imagine a 40-year old Brian enoying a nice glass of red wine in the late evening, after having spent a fruitful day in the studio.

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

Have to say Heartical Don best post of the day esp this "As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being" That was the point I was trying to make too eariler on this topic

[tansen]

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

I think anyone in their right mind would say the same, but is such a pointless statement, even if it's a goodhearted one. It's like saying I wish the Vietnam war never happened, even if that meant no 'Forrest Gump'. We all would say the same, but it's an unfruitful and none-viable argument. The past happened, and in Brian's case a traumatic and sad one, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it now.

[Camus]

Surely the largest amount of damage done to Brian Wilson wasn't recreational drugs, but the illegally prescribed drugs by Landy?  From what i can gather, they damaged his brain far more than the recreational drugs he took. 

[The Heartical Don]

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

I think anyone in their right mind would say the same, but is such a pointless statement, even if it's a goodhearted one. It's like saying I wish the Vietnam war never happened, even if that meant no 'Forrest Gump'. We all would say the same, but it's an unfruitful and none-viable argument. The past happened, and in Brian's case a traumatic and sad one, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it now.

Well, it was in response to the attitude previously on display here (i.e. a morbid 'liking' of what happened to Brian, combined with the 'tortured artist' argument). So to me it's not pointless... (but well, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it). Incidentally, John Cleese (he of Monty Python) once stated, after successful psychotherapy, that he'd gladly have traded in his finest achievements, in lieu of peace of mind.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I've seen 3D movies without the glasses, and it was OK, you could get a sense of what the effect was supposed to be, and enjoy it on a level.
So much better with the   glasses on though

Can you guess where I'm going with this analogy?

I once listened to Do You Like Worms on endless repeat for about 3 hours on acid. Not because I was off my head, but because it sounded so good as to warrant that many listens. Whilst listening to it I could see through reality to the lines and circles that made the universe. (I can only tell you this because I was recording myself on dictaphone at the time - an interesting tape)

SMiLE is music best enjoyed whilst on drugs, in my opninon. It was concieved through drug use and would not exist without  it, again in my opinion. The album and drugs go hand in hand.

On all the interviews I've ever seen with Brian, he remained lucid and intelligent right up until Landy circa 1983. As far as I can see it was the mis-prescribed drugs that really damaged him. Having said that I think drug damage is a coat he has worn for many years. I'm not saying it's an act ala Keith Richards, but I think it serves a purpose for him  sometimes.

If Brian hadn't taken acid and smoked dope, I really don't think we'd have the music we have, conversely, I think if he'd not overdone it we'd have music we don't have. I really admire the guy, and pity him his past to a point, but there are many people I pity more, and who have suffered more  than a pampered rich rock star who overdid it in the sixties - but I suppose suffering is relative.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone, really not my intention. I don't post often as I don't like the sound of eggshells breaking. I do like worms, but not in a can.


And the 3D glasses, they made the film look great, but I had conjunctivitis for a month.

[The Heartical Don]

Surely the largest amount of damage done to Brian Wilson wasn't recreational drugs, but the illegally prescribed drugs by Landy?  From what i can gather, they damaged his brain far more than the recreational drugs he took. 

Difficult one. I don't know what exactly was prescribed to him by Landy, and in what quantities. Ames Carlin's book has a couple of alarming paragraphs on this topic, and he's very factual; Brian's longtime friend and therapist Peter Reum reportedly was shocked after discovering symptoms of tardive dyskynesia in Brian (stiffness, slow reactivity, perhaps convulsions and twitches, strange posture), and he ascribed it to the meds and their dosages. I guess the 'Landy turned Brian into a puppet without any willpower' is valid after all (at first I, and others, took it as a gross exaggeration, if not a joke).

Reum is said to have feared for Brian's life, as a result of that 'official' medication (Bri would've turned into a vegetable eventually, and perhaps have died from a heart attack).

So Landy's treatment damaged him. But the same can be said of the large mountains of coke he ingested, and the alcohol. These damage brain cells, without any doubt. Cannabis, LSD, and even heroin aren't that detrimental in this respect. The first two can induce psychiatric problems of their own, in susceptible persons, that's why I'll never condone them. Heroin is an opiate. If one uses it in moderation, and in pure form, one can get very old with it - but it is a very heavy addiction. Sudden withdrawal is extremely dangerous.

[tansen]

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

I think anyone in their right mind would say the same, but is such a pointless statement, even if it's a goodhearted one. It's like saying I wish the Vietnam war never happened, even if that meant no 'Forrest Gump'. We all would say the same, but it's an unfruitful and none-viable argument. The past happened, and in Brian's case a traumatic and sad one, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it now.

Well, it was in response to the attitude previously on display here (i.e. a morbid 'liking' of what happened to Brian, combined with the 'tortured artist' argument). So to me it's not pointless... (but well, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it). Incidentally, John Cleese (he of Monty Python) once stated, after successful psychotherapy, that he'd gladly have traded in his finest achievements, in lieu of peace of mind.

I know Don, but you already posted pretty much the exact same thing previously in this thread, which is why I commented on it now. And there is only person in this thread who 'likes' what happened to Brian, and I don't think even he really 'likes' it per se, but merely enjoy the music that Brian Wilson wrote, some of it perhaps due to some of his drug use/abuse, again leading to the said suffering.

[Mike's Beard]

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

I think anyone in their right mind would say the same, but is such a pointless statement, even if it's a goodhearted one. It's like saying I wish the Vietnam war never happened, even if that meant no 'Forrest Gump'. We all would say the same, but it's an unfruitful and none-viable argument. The past happened, and in Brian's case a traumatic and sad one, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it now.

Well, it was in response to the attitude previously on display here (i.e. a morbid 'liking' of what happened to Brian, combined with the 'tortured artist' argument). So to me it's not pointless... (but well, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it). Incidentally, John Cleese (he of Monty Python) once stated, after successful psychotherapy, that he'd gladly have traded in his finest achievements, in lieu of peace of mind.

Wot no Faulty Towers? Screw that! Suck it up and be a man John. 

[The Heartical Don]

As I said earlier: I could have done without SMiLE (and Pet Sounds, for that matter), had Brian been able to lead a stable and happy life as a trade-off. Everything else is egotistical, narcissistic fandom at enormous personal cost of another human being.

I think anyone in their right mind would say the same, but is such a pointless statement, even if it's a goodhearted one. It's like saying I wish the Vietnam war never happened, even if that meant no 'Forrest Gump'. We all would say the same, but it's an unfruitful and none-viable argument. The past happened, and in Brian's case a traumatic and sad one, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it now.

Well, it was in response to the attitude previously on display here (i.e. a morbid 'liking' of what happened to Brian, combined with the 'tortured artist' argument). So to me it's not pointless... (but well, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it). Incidentally, John Cleese (he of Monty Python) once stated, after successful psychotherapy, that he'd gladly have traded in his finest achievements, in lieu of peace of mind.

Wot no Faulty Towers? Screw that! Suck it up and be a man John.  

  (...and that includes your typo, Sir - a self-referential one if there ever was one...)

[Boiled Egg]

Surely the largest amount of damage done to Brian Wilson wasn't recreational drugs, but the illegally prescribed drugs by Landy?  From what i can gather, they damaged his brain far more than the recreational drugs he took. 

Difficult one. I don't know what exactly was prescribed to him by Landy, and in what quantities. Ames Carlin's book has a couple of alarming paragraphs on this topic, and he's very factual; Brian's longtime friend and therapist Peter Reum reportedly was shocked after discovering symptoms of tardive dyskynesia in Brian (stiffness, slow reactivity, perhaps convulsions and twitches, strange posture), and he ascribed it to the meds and their dosages. I guess the 'Landy turned Brian into a puppet without any willpower' is valid after all (at first I, and others, took it as a gross exaggeration, if not a joke).

Reum is said to have feared for Brian's life, as a result of that 'official' medication (Bri would've turned into a vegetable eventually, and perhaps have died from a heart attack).

So Landy's treatment damaged him. But the same can be said of the large mountains of coke he ingested, and the alcohol. These damage brain cells, without any doubt. Cannabis, LSD, and even heroin aren't that detrimental in this respect. The first two can induce psychiatric problems of their own, in susceptible persons, that's why I'll never condone them. Heroin is an opiate. If one uses it in moderation, and in pure form, one can get very old with it - but it is a very heavy addiction. Sudden withdrawal is extremely dangerous.

Certainly anecdotal evidence suggests BW was coshed by Landy's regimen far harder than his recreationals.  There's a radio interview promoting Smiley Smile - one of you good dudes might be able to point to it - in which BW sounds as lucid and together and relaxed as at any point.  Compare that with the monosyllabic noddy that shows up in interview post-Landy and it's a distressing counterpoint.

[rab2591]

Surely the largest amount of damage done to Brian Wilson wasn't recreational drugs, but the illegally prescribed drugs by Landy?  From what i can gather, they damaged his brain far more than the recreational drugs he took. 

Difficult one. I don't know what exactly was prescribed to him by Landy, and in what quantities. Ames Carlin's book has a couple of alarming paragraphs on this topic, and he's very factual; Brian's longtime friend and therapist Peter Reum reportedly was shocked after discovering symptoms of tardive dyskynesia in Brian (stiffness, slow reactivity, perhaps convulsions and twitches, strange posture), and he ascribed it to the meds and their dosages. I guess the 'Landy turned Brian into a puppet without any willpower' is valid after all (at first I, and others, took it as a gross exaggeration, if not a joke).

Reum is said to have feared for Brian's life, as a result of that 'official' medication (Bri would've turned into a vegetable eventually, and perhaps have died from a heart attack).

So Landy's treatment damaged him. But the same can be said of the large mountains of coke he ingested, and the alcohol. These damage brain cells, without any doubt. Cannabis, LSD, and even heroin aren't that detrimental in this respect. The first two can induce psychiatric problems of their own, in susceptible persons, that's why I'll never condone them. Heroin is an opiate. If one uses it in moderation, and in pure form, one can get very old with it - but it is a very heavy addiction. Sudden withdrawal is extremely dangerous.

Certainly anecdotal evidence suggests BW was coshed by Landy's regimen far harder than his recreationals.  There's a radio interview promoting Smiley Smile - one of you good dudes might be able to point to it - in which BW sounds as lucid and together and relaxed as at any point.  Compare that with the monosyllabic noddy that shows up in interview post-Landy and it's a distressing counterpoint.

This may be it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRFE-24ucxc

[Runaways]

And the 3D glasses, they made the film look great, but I had conjunctivitis for a month.

3D glasses make a movie look dim and dark.  and difficult to focus on. 

[Dunderhead]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to f*** off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

[bgas]

Fishmonk, I think we're on the threshold of a new understanding of SMiLE. But I don't think the proper level of understanding will be shared by the general public.

Frank Holmes definitely seemed to indicate to me that there were just 3 people who were creatively involved in SMiLE. He is totally right.

What those 3 shared hasn't been totally shared but it's cool and way ahead of its time and on a philosophical level that no other album is on!!!

This is super cool highest high of sixties art.

Smarter minds say "No it's not!" This is just a tribute to "the American story" or something like that.

Let's let move on and let smarter minds stay where they are.

Trying to get straight in my mind who these 3 people are; thes sense I get from your post is it would be Brian, VDP, Frank.  If so, that's so off the wall.
I love Frank's drawings, but don't feel he was at all involved in Smile, other than doing the drawings. I don't feel his work influenced any of the music, that's for sure.
Perhaps you meant Brian, VDP and ML?  Brian, VDP, David Anderle?  Brian and ?,?

[hypehat]

Come on Fishmonk, it's not even like it's a grey area with Brian. We do know what too much drug use looks like. It looks like you going AWOL for a day only to be found miles away playing piano in a gay bar for tips. It looks like gaining 150+ pounds in the space of two years and becoming bed-bound. It looks like offering your infant daughter heroin. It looks like writing songs about cruising for school children, and it looks like taking to the stage in a bathrobe and playing in the key of BW.

Brian Wilson had far, far, far too many drugs. He did not take drugs recreationally. He abused many differing drugs. He pretty much obliterated himself with them in 70's. An idiot could see Brian had a drug problem, and that Brian was most likely trying to self-medicate his mental problems. It's fairly common psychological practice. People tend to do that. Even Brian. He was in pain, and he took far, far, far, far too many drugs. Try and deny that.

[Shady]

Wait, the July 12th date is a fake.

Ugh, whatever. This is getting ridiculous

[hypehat]

Fishmonk, I think we're on the threshold of a new understanding of SMiLE. But I don't think the proper level of understanding will be shared by the general public.

Dude, seriously. Get over yourself. That is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board.