SMiLE Sessions box set!

[homeontherange]

Psychedelic drugs like LSD or cannabis (yes, it's a psychedelic drug) enhance creativity during the trip, but ofcourse can give you some real mental issues. Both Pet Sounds and Smile are products of the creativity boost that Brian got from his early use of psychedelic drugs. It's impossible to know if he'd reach that musical peak if he hadn't used this stuff to go deep down into his mind.

[Ganz Allein]

Psychedelic drugs like LSD or cannabis (yes, it's a psychedelic drug) enhance creativity during the trip, but ofcourse can give you some real mental issues. Both Pet Sounds and Smile are products of the creativity boost that Brian got from his early use of psychedelic drugs. It's impossible to know if he'd reach that musical peak if he hadn't used this stuff to go deep down into his mind.

Psychedelic drugs can stimulate creativity because they provide a different perspective on your thoughts and environment. But any new perspective or experience can boost artistic creativity. I'm confident that Brian would have reached very high (no pun intended), incredible musical peaks even if he never touched illegal substances. And I bet he'd be scaling those musical peaks for a lot longer, too.

[homeontherange]

Psychedelic drugs can stimulate creativity because they provide a different perspective on your thoughts and environment. But any new perspective or experience can boost artistic creativity. I'm confident that Brian would have reached very high (no pun intended), incredible musical peaks even if he never touched illegal substances. And I bet he'd be scaling those musical peaks for a lot longer, too.

I agree, but it's impossible to know. His pre-acid-stuff ofcourse showed an enormous creative potential. His early stuff can sound predictable and sometimes uninspired but suddenly you get this weird chord that just popped out of his head that sounds great, which shows his amazing creative ability. I believe he would've still written amazing music without the psychedelics but it would've been different from what we have know, definitely.
The attention you get to details in music while stoned is really something you can't describe, and that's what I think made him continue with the pot. He discovered he got even deeper into music. It's so sad it messed up his brain though. Especially anxious and fragile people shouldn't deal with this stuff. What's done is done though, and we've got some amazing music to listen to. Doesn't really matter what the psychedelics did.

[Runaways]

i don't think you can assume either way.  Musically he could have gone further, with a higher peak. 

[pixletwin]

Some of you are confusing me. You are saying that without drugs SMiLE wouldn't have been possible... Can you say something which never materialized was made possible by drugs?

[rab2591]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Brian himself believes that drugs added to his creativity - or at least gave him the extra push to find these songs in the recesses of his mind. I don't believe the man needed drugs - he created songs like 'Don't Worry Baby' without drugs - the man was/is a genius without drugs. However, without drugs, would he have wanted to find this new 'hip' sound and crowd?

I think he could have come up with the same melodies, but I don't think that the idea of SMiLE would have ever been conceived without drugs.

[Mike's Beard]

Some of you are confusing me. You are saying that without drugs SMiLE wouldn't have been possible... Can you say something which never materialized was made possible by drugs?

So we've got the "Smile didn't happen because of drugs" and "Smile couldn't have been thought of without the aid of drugs". I think I've discovered a paradox here. 

[homeontherange]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Brian himself believes that drugs added to his creativity - or at least gave him the extra push to find these songs in the recesses of his mind. I don't believe the man needed drugs - he created songs like 'Don't Worry Baby' without drugs - the man was/is a genius without drugs. However, without drugs, would he have wanted to find this new 'hip' sound and crowd?

I think he could have come up with the same melodies, but I don't think that the idea of SMiLE would have ever been conceived without drugs.

Totally agree.

[tansen]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Brian himself believes that drugs added to his creativity - or at least gave him the extra push to find these songs in the recesses of his mind. I don't believe the man needed drugs - he created songs like 'Don't Worry Baby' without drugs - the man was/is a genius without drugs. However, without drugs, would he have wanted to find this new 'hip' sound and crowd?

I think he could have come up with the same melodies, but I don't think that the idea of SMiLE would have ever been conceived without drugs.

Totally agree.

+1

[Andrew G. Doe]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Sounds to me like a quote from his pseudobiography, in which case, no, he didn't say it. 

[Dunderhead]

Granted, this was before the digital revolution in movie-making, but the premise holds true. A film historian and collector made the point that, however complex, a camera is simply a machine for forming an image on film. He stated, and proved, that he could load film into the camera used to shoot 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) and the camera used to shoot The Birth Of A Nation (1914), and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in the result. The modern camera makes it easier, that's all. Same with writing and music - once you assimilate the basics, anything else is just embellishment, but the basic ability has to be there.

Used to be it was all very simple - drugs killed Smile and nearly did for Brian in the process. Now, it's all much less clear-cut, but one thing is obvious: post Smile, Brian's escalating drug use robbed us of maybe ten years of his potential peak, just as Landy's tender ministrations robbed us of another decade or so. Whether or not drugs were good for Brian's creativity in the short term is questionable: the first song he wrote after his first trip was "California Girls", and there's no huge quantum leap in his composing or production techniques. A far better scribe than I once pointed out that there was a steady upwards curve from "Surfin USA" to "Good Vibrations", and that's true. No sudden steps.

This analogy..., you're saying that the difference between every director is down to "embellishment" because the camera always works the same. But I wouldn't say that, I'd say that when it comes to film, the part you call "embellishment" I call "artistry". It's like your saying art is a room, and no matter what you put in it, it's always a room and all decoration is just "embellishment". But without that embellishment, a room is just empty space. The room might always have the same dimensions, but that's not the part that matters, what matters is what you put in the room. The same room could be a parlor, an office, a bedroom, it can be art deco, colonial, rustic, modern. The "embellishment", as you are wont to call it, is where all the art happens.

I think believing that drugs "robbed" us of more good music is a bad attitude to have. By taking drugs out of the equation you're changing who Brian was, and probably changing the art he would have made as well. It's a case of "be careful what you wish for", if you could wake up tomorrow in a world where Brian Wilson never touched drugs, there's no reason to believe you'd like what you saw. Drugs didn't steal anything away, in order for drugs to have stolen something there has to have been something to steal from, but that "perfect' BW career isn't real, it only exists in your imagination, and you can't steal from something that was never real. You should be thankful for the career Brian had, not for the career that you imagine he would have had, because that's just a pipe dream, a fantasy.

[OBLiO]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Brian himself believes that drugs added to his creativity - or at least gave him the extra push to find these songs in the recesses of his mind. I don't believe the man needed drugs - he created songs like 'Don't Worry Baby' without drugs - the man was/is a genius without drugs. However, without drugs, would he have wanted to find this new 'hip' sound and crowd?

I think he could have come up with the same melodies, but I don't think that the idea of SMiLE would have ever been conceived without drugs.

I think the idea for SMiLE is based in Koestler's writings. The drug culture had kicked into gear at the same time and there was a seriousness to it as Dave Gilmour pointed out. But the laughter that accompanied the drug taking was relative to Koestler's ideas about humor. The seriousness was relative to understanding the universe and that's where the spiritual aspect comes in. But a person can laugh and try and understand the universe without the drugs. LSD isn't a recreational drug as someone stated earlier. It wasn't designed for fun-time and scientists still don't know how it really works because it has different effects on different people.

I think you can believe you are more creative, but that would be based off your memory of the experience. No doubt it is an influence, but what is the influence? Enhanced perception of what your senses take in, but it's fleeting. What happens if you aren't getting that chord or that mood or that thing you are looking for? That thing you felt when you were high? what do you do? Take more drugs? That's when it becomes a problem... because you think you were more creative when you were high. So it would make sense for Brian to say he was more creative on marijuana or saw more colors on LSD because his senses were enhanced. But his true creativity is what he did with the experience after the fact. If you are not creative in the first place, you can't do anything with the experience. If you keep going back to the drugs for that experience, the drugs will eventually eat you up. You can get the same experience from riding a roller coaster, but riding a roller coaster is no way to live your life. You have to keep some ground. SMiLE wasn't finished until Brian had his feet back on the ground.

[tansen]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Sounds to me like a quote from his pseudobiography, in which case, no, he didn't say it. 

The quote sure makes a lot of sense though!

[homeontherange]

I think the idea for SMiLE is based in Koestler's writings. The drug culture had kicked into gear at the same time and there was a seriousness to it as Dave Gilmour pointed out. But the laughter that accompanied the drug taking was relative to Koestler's ideas about humor. The seriousness was relative to understanding the universe and that's where the spiritual aspect comes in. But a person can laugh and try and understand the universe without the drugs. LSD isn't a recreational drug as someone stated earlier. It wasn't designed for fun-time and scientists still don't know how it really works because it has different effects on different people.

I think you can believe you are more creative, but that would be based off your memory of the experience. No doubt it is an influence, but what is the influence? Enhanced perception of what your senses take in, but it's fleeting. What happens if you aren't getting that chord or that mood or that thing you are looking for? That thing you felt when you were high? what do you do? Take more drugs? That's when it becomes a problem... because you think you were more creative when you were high. So it would make sense for Brian to say he was more creative on marijuana or saw more colors on LSD because his senses were enhanced. But his true creativity is what he did with the experience after the fact. If you are not creative in the first place, you can't do anything with the experience. If you keep going back to the drugs for that experience, the drugs will eventually eat you up. You can get the same experience from riding a roller coaster, but riding a roller coaster is no way to live your life. You have to keep some ground. SMiLE wasn't finished until Brian had his feet back on the ground.

Great post. No conservative judgements on this please

[rab2591]

What did Brian say? something like "Marijuana gave me that extra creativity, but LSD added whole new colors to my palette."

Sounds to me like a quote from his pseudobiography, in which case, no, he didn't say it.  

Pardon my ignorance here, but did Brian ever give partial credit to drugs for his intricate songwriting abilities?

[Mikie]

Should this discussion be moved to the Sandbox?

Naahh, Beach Boys, SMiLE and drugs is as on-topic as can be  56 (60.9%)
 
The voting percentage is getting higher and higher as this thread moves along and the posts increase!   Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!  That's funny. 

[rab2591]

Granted, this was before the digital revolution in movie-making, but the premise holds true. A film historian and collector made the point that, however complex, a camera is simply a machine for forming an image on film. He stated, and proved, that he could load film into the camera used to shoot 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) and the camera used to shoot The Birth Of A Nation (1914), and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in the result. The modern camera makes it easier, that's all. Same with writing and music - once you assimilate the basics, anything else is just embellishment, but the basic ability has to be there.

Used to be it was all very simple - drugs killed Smile and nearly did for Brian in the process. Now, it's all much less clear-cut, but one thing is obvious: post Smile, Brian's escalating drug use robbed us of maybe ten years of his potential peak, just as Landy's tender ministrations robbed us of another decade or so. Whether or not drugs were good for Brian's creativity in the short term is questionable: the first song he wrote after his first trip was "California Girls", and there's no huge quantum leap in his composing or production techniques. A far better scribe than I once pointed out that there was a steady upwards curve from "Surfin USA" to "Good Vibrations", and that's true. No sudden steps.

I think believing that drugs "robbed" us of more good music is a bad attitude to have. By taking drugs out of the equation you're changing who Brian was, and probably changing the art he would have made as well. It's a case of "be careful what you wish for", if you could wake up tomorrow in a world where Brian Wilson never touched drugs, there's no reason to believe you'd like what you saw. Drugs didn't steal anything away, in order for drugs to have stolen something there has to have been something to steal from, but that "perfect' BW career isn't real, it only exists in your imagination, and you can't steal from something that was never real. You should be thankful for the career Brian had, not for the career that you imagine he would have had, because that's just a pipe dream, a fantasy.

Of course the art would have been different had he never indulged. However, you say that had Brian never taken drugs "there's no reason to believe you'd like what you saw" - I disagree. Brian's pre-please let me wonder career was incredible - those albums are a testament to what Brian could do without drugs....and even without drugs you could see an evolution of ideas that were maturing past the surf/car theme and into ideas and thoughts about love.

Brian could evolve artistically without drugs, and I for one would give up all my copies of Pet Sounds, the coming SMiLE boxset, etc just to get a glimpse at what he could have accomplished without drugs.

[OBLiO]

Should this discussion be moved to the Sandbox?

Naahh, Beach Boys, SMiLE and drugs is as on-topic as can be  56 (60.9%)
 
The voting percentage is getting higher and higher as this thread moves along and the posts increase!   Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!  That's funny. 

That is funny! I hadn't even voted... yet... just did... not gonna say what my vote is...

[Jason]

Yes, it has been "documented" that drugs, or the memory of the drug experiences, made Brian more creative. But I don't think Brian's descent into exorbitant amounts of much harder drug use has anything to do with trying to recapture that "zeitgeist" (for lack of a better term), and everything to do with his bipolar disorder. Untreated bipolar disorder, especially when aggravated by previous/current drug use, is a serious problem. THAT is why I find it completely inconceivable that people can sit back and go on about Brian's drug use and then bitch and moan about the quality of his work lately. The drug use, or the memory of the experiences, POSSIBLY made him more creative (for one, he was already creative, drugs don't make an uncreative person creative), but I think the toll taken on him is far more upsetting.

I mean hey, if you want to glorify drug use you might as well glorify the effects! But I don't see the idiots on here who are glorifying Brian's drug use engaging in such use themselves (or maybe you do and don't regale us with your lovely stories). And you same people glorifying his drug use call yourselves fans? You're despicable; lower than whale merda.

[Dunderhead]

It's not about "more", people keep putting it in terms of "better", "more creative". But we have no objective measure of creativity, it's not like we can take a measure of Brian's creativity before and after he dropped acid. You can't say Brian was more creative before or after he did drugs, you can't say that the music he made after doing drugs was "better" or "worse" than what he would have done otherwise.
What you can say is that it would be different. Imagining that difference is tantalizing, but ultimately all it is is a product of imagination. It's easy to fantasize that the difference would be to your preference, but there's no real reason to believe that. I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

I like Brian Wilson, not some other hypothetical musician who made entirely different art.

[tansen]

Yes, it has been "documented" that drugs, or the memory of the drug experiences, made Brian more creative. But I don't think Brian's descent into exorbitant amounts of much harder drug use has anything to do with trying to recapture that "zeitgeist" (for lack of a better term), and everything to do with his bipolar disorder. Untreated bipolar disorder, especially when aggravated by previous/current drug use, is a serious problem. THAT is why I find it completely inconceivable that people can sit back and go on about Brian's drug use and then bitch and moan about the quality of his work lately. The drug use, or the memory of the experiences, POSSIBLY made him more creative (for one, he was already creative, drugs don't make an uncreative person creative), but I think the toll taken on him is far more upsetting.

I mean hey, if you want to glorify drug use you might as well glorify the effects! But I don't see the idiots on here who are glorifying Brian's drug use engaging in such use themselves (or maybe you do and don't regale us with your lovely stories). And you same people glorifying his drug use call yourselves fans? You're despicable; lower than whale merda.

Wow, really? Idiots? despicable? lower than whale merda? Let's not go overboard here.

Like said before, I don't think anyone is glorifying Brian's drug use, and again there is a difference between the drugs that mainly made Brian the man he is today (e.g. taking a toll on the man) - the cocaine and amphetamine - and the drugs that we are talking about, the LSD and marihuana. All some of us are saying is that the latter drugs were enhancing his perception and songwriting, and that sure as heck don't give you the right to call us idiots, and what not - or calling yourself any more a fan than us.

Drugs were a part of Brian's life, some of them having a good effect, and some of them a really bad effect - let's just be able to distinct between the two.

[OBLiO]

Yes, it has been "documented" that drugs, or the memory of the drug experiences, made Brian more creative. But I don't think Brian's descent into exorbitant amounts of much harder drug use has anything to do with trying to recapture that "zeitgeist" (for lack of a better term), and everything to do with his bipolar disorder. Untreated bipolar disorder, especially when aggravated by previous/current drug use, is a serious problem. THAT is why I find it completely inconceivable that people can sit back and go on about Brian's drug use and then bitch and moan about the quality of his work lately. The drug use, or the memory of the experiences, POSSIBLY made him more creative (for one, he was already creative, drugs don't make an uncreative person creative), but I think the toll taken on him is far more upsetting.

I mean hey, if you want to glorify drug use you might as well glorify the effects! But I don't see the idiots on here who are glorifying Brian's drug use engaging in such use themselves (or maybe you do and don't regale us with your lovely stories). And you same people glorifying his drug use call yourselves fans? You're despicable; lower than whale merda.

I agree with you about the glorifying of drug use... too many people around me have destroyed themselves with drugs over the years. I hope I am not coming off as a proponent... each person makes their own decision what they do to themselves... drugs do not turn you into a creator, they turn you into a receiver, and in some cases a receptacle... if anything, it was the glorification of LSD at that time as to why people got into it. I would have been one of the people advising Brian not to do it. I know a girl around the corner from me who has been diagnosed with bi-polar, but I think she is an acid casualty... complicated story, but someone else mentioned that here, as well. I'm happy Brian made it through all that stuff and is still kickin'. Personally, I like "That Lucky Old Sun"... he still has "it".

[rab2591]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

I wonder if Brian Wilson feels the same way.

[Dunderhead]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

I wonder if Brian Wilson feels the same way.

Even things we regret are still part of who we are. If there was someway to let Brian see his life how it would have been without drugs, there's no guarantee he would like that more than how things actually happened.

Haven't you ever seen "It's a Wonderful Life"? It's easy to believe that if history had happened differently, things would be better, but that's just a fantasy, and fantasies aren't real. Fantasies reflect the wishes and hopes of the person doing the fantasizing, but that doesn't mean the reality of things would play out according to his or your wishes. Brian has given us a lot of wonderful art, and instead of dwelling on what maybe could have been we should try and realize that we all got into liking the Beach Boys because of the art Brian made, not the art he might have made.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

So you're happy that Brian, with the help of some so-called friends, drugged himself into a state that rendered him almost unable to function as a human being, much less a musician,  for several years, and into such a state that it required the services of someone who then inflicted more damage than your gloriously creative psychedelics ever did him with prescription drugs, to the extent that he was almost made a vegetable ?

You, sir, are not just a fool, you are most certainly not any kind of BB/BW fan. I'll not bother myself with you anymore.