SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Andrew G. Doe]

What a pointless discussion: "I would have stopped Brian from taking drugs"/"I would have let him take drugs". I would have bought sh*t loads of stocks in Apple 30 years ago or so.
None of the above have any meaning, because they are all impossible things to do, today.

And Andrew, seriously man, do you really think Fishmonk is evil and want Brian to suffer? Like really?

Seriously, reading his posts here - assuming they're not a huge leg-pull - you have to form the opinion that he's cool - or to use his own word, "happy" - with Brian enduring years of profound mental turmoil (not to mention making life for his family and those around him a misery) because hey, it produced some great music. Because that's exactly what he said, despite his efforts to backpedal.

We're all fans here, otherwise we wouldn't be on this board - it says it self. I think people must be able to have their own opinions without being deemed less of a fan or whatever.

I've no problem with anyone having an opinion - got a few myself, you may have noticed - but when it's so half-baked as to be close to trollish, I think said poster is fair game. Similarly, I consider the fan who seriously gets off on Sounds Of Summer because it's all they've got the equal of someone who has all the original releases, all the solo and related stuff and a closet full of boots, and I envy them because they've bypassed or avioded all the concomitant bullmerda: they dig the music, period.

Also, I wonder, is there a difference between being fan or Brian Wilson's music and the man himself? Do they go hand in hand, or is there a distinction. Just curious.

Now, there I'm with you - I firmly believe there are people who consider themselves 'fans' of Brian Wilson not because of the peerless music he's made but rather because he's that most attractive of modern figures, the damaged genius. They look at him and think hey, he's a bit like me. Is that a good thing ? I'm not sure. If it gives them hope that their life can be turned around, then yes. If it gives them a get-out clause or an excuse to emlate his less palatable behaviour, no.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Now, about this damn box set... 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Now, about this damn box set... 

The big rumor is there's a box set of SMiLE stuff coming out. I don't believe it. 

[Boiled Egg]

The SMiLE music was never written under the influence of LSD or anything like that. Brian said "gotta have a clear head" for recording--so the studio was off limits as well for that sort of thing as well.

According to Brian, the first point of order for himself and VDP in the creation of the Smile material was the purchase of some $3000 worth of Afghanistan's finest. VDP added Desbutols (speed) to the mix. This is well-documented. You were saying ?

Can anyone advance an educated guess on how much $3k got you in '66?

[Mike's Beard]

Pretty damn hammered. 

[SloopJohnB]

Can anyone advance an educated guess on how much $3k got you in '66?

A base convertible Corvette was $4k in 1966. So yeah, "pretty damn hammered" sounds correct 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Can anyone advance an educated guess on how much $3k got you in '66?

A base convertible Corvette was $4k in 1966. So yeah, "pretty damn hammered" sounds correct 

Brian's $5000 check got VDP a Volvo in mid-1966. I'd say, not so much hammered as totally blitzed.

[sockittome]

Pretty damn hammered. 

Post of the week! 

[Bill Tobelman]

I said:

The SMiLE music was never written under the influence of LSD or anything like that. Brian said "gotta have a clear head" for recording--so the studio was off limits as well for that sort of thing as well.

Andrew said:

According to Brian, the first point of order for himself and VDP in the creation of the Smile material was the purchase of some $3000 worth of Afghanistan's finest. VDP added Desbutols (speed) to the mix. This is well-documented. You were saying ?

So that's like acid Andrew? You'd know right?

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I was under the apparently false impression that what David Leaf has always referred to as "the moment" somewhat coincided with Sgt. Pepper's & the Summer of Love & maybe I'm wrong here but wasn't this art/societal/moment supposed to reflect and/or embody the fruition/potential/possibilities of a certain drug...possibly LSD???

The missing link here is the Koestler book which laid out how to present art to invoke the unconscious & the transcendence of self. So Van Dyke's lyrics owe more to Koestler than acid (by a ratio of two to one). Anyway feel free to clear this up for folks.

Set the record straight Andrew.

[Bill Tobelman]

Here's a quote from The Act Of Creation for those who know about the sandbox & SMiLE.

...though unconscious process cannot be governed by conscious volition, they can at least be coaxed into activity by certain tricks acquired at the price of a little patience. Friedrich Schiller learned to get himself into a creative frame of mind by smelling rotten apples, Turgenev by keeping his feet in a bucket of hot water....

Anyway, I'm sure such passages won't move those who'd require Turgenev to have his feet in sand to qualify for association with SMiLE's sandbox but inaccurate non scholars such as myself throw caution to the wind and just make up false crap as we see fit (by a ratio of two to one).

[bgas]

Here's a quote from The Act Of Creation for those who know about the sandbox & SMiLE.

...though unconscious process cannot be governed by conscious volition, they can at least be coaxed into activity by certain tricks acquired at the price of a little patience. Friedrich Schiller learned to get himself into a creative frame of mind by smelling rotten apples, Turgenev by keeping his feet in a bucket of hot water....

Anyway, I'm sure such passages won't move those who'd require Turgenev to have his feet in sand to qualify for association with SMiLE's sandbox but inaccurate non scholars such as myself throw caution to the wind and just make up false crap as we see fit (by a ratio of two to one).

I think your first sentence here puts it all in perspective for me; your illuminating posts belong in the sandbox. Maybe someone could move them there

[Bill Tobelman]

So I guess you're not up for any "da-da" quotes from The Act Of Creation either.

[Dunderhead]

I guess there's nothing else to say in this debate. I am absolutely happy that history happened exactly the way that it did, that doesn't mean that if I had been Brian's friend I would have poked him with a knife and collected his tears in a vile to drink. It's just a childish fantasy that you guys have of changing the past. Who are any of you to decide how much pain Brian should have had? You'd all agree some amount of pain is necessary, but where would you draw the line? Nobody should have that kind of power honestly, people have the right to make their own decisions, and Brian did! And what happened as a result of his decisions happened. Some of you believe that having pity for Brian is a good thing, but I don't believe that pity is a very admirable quality.

Generally the problem with these debates on the internet is that there's no understanding between any of the posters, but everyone thinks they know the other posters here based on what they read. But really nobody knows the first thing about anyone else here, I could say Andrew is an insufferable elitist and he can say I'm a pathetic fan, but at the end of the day neither of us have any ability to convey our thoughts to eachother, because there's no understanding, the essence of what's being said is lost and everyone just ends up having separate debates with the points they imagine others are making. Which is really frustrating.

Am I frothing maniac who wants to insert Brian Wilson into a Saw movie? No.

At this point I just want the boxset to come out, regardless of what's going to be on it. I come here each day hoping that they'll be a new thread with new details about the release, but there never is one, just the same ol' grind.

[Dunderhead]

Here's a quote from The Act Of Creation for those who know about the sandbox & SMiLE.

...though unconscious process cannot be governed by conscious volition, they can at least be coaxed into activity by certain tricks acquired at the price of a little patience. Friedrich Schiller learned to get himself into a creative frame of mind by smelling rotten apples, Turgenev by keeping his feet in a bucket of hot water....

Anyway, I'm sure such passages won't move those who'd require Turgenev to have his feet in sand to qualify for association with SMiLE's sandbox but inaccurate non scholars such as myself throw caution to the wind and just make up false crap as we see fit (by a ratio of two to one).

I think your first sentence here puts it all in perspective for me; your illuminating posts belong in the sandbox. Maybe someone could move them there

Bill's posts should remain here. Just because some people don't like it doesn't mean others don't find them interesting. They're as on topic as anything else. It's not like we need to conserve threads and make sure we don't waste any posts. There'll always be more threads and more posts, there are 10 other smile threads going.

[Bill Tobelman]

Fishmonk, I think we're on the threshold of a new understanding of SMiLE. But I don't think the proper level of understanding will be shared by the general public.

Frank Holmes definitely seemed to indicate to me that there were just 3 people who were creatively involved in SMiLE. He is totally right.

What those 3 shared hasn't been totally shared but it's cool and way ahead of its time and on a philosophical level that no other album is on!!!

This is super cool highest high of sixties art.

Smarter minds say "No it's not!" This is just a tribute to "the American story" or something like that.

Let's let move on and let smarter minds stay where they are.

[Dunderhead]

Fishmonk, I think we're on the threshold of a new understanding of SMiLE. But I don't think the proper level of understanding will be shared by the general public.

Frank Holmes definitely seemed to indicate to me that there were just 3 people who were creatively involved in SMiLE. He is totally right.

What those 3 shared hasn't been totally shared but it's cool and way ahead of its time and on a philosophical level that no other album is on!!!

This is super cool highest high of sixties art.

Smarter minds say "No it's not!" This is just a tribute to "the American story" or something like that.

Let's let move on and let smarter minds stay where they are.

I think it's not so much a matter of right or wrong interpretation, as there is less and more honest. It's all about sort of understanding Brian's "perspective" (The perspective he had in 1966). I think when Brian started speaking "hip" his very understanding of the world changed too, so I think understanding that stoner speak of trips and hang ups helps shift into that sort of frame of mind more. Understanding what he read too is really important. To me all the pieces clearly indicate a pattern of sort of philosophic-psychedelia. Which is a term many would laugh at, but I'm just doing my best to describe what Brian was doing, he certainly meant to convey some finer points of philosophy to his listener, his own description of Surf's Up is very lucid and intelligent.
I have seen Brian say many times that he read or wanted to read books on metaphysics. Do we know if he ever did? I suppose I have trouble imagining Brian reading Kant, but I'd still be interested to know what he meant by this.
I think there's a very strong tie between genius and self-awareness. And I don't meant that as what a psychologist might say is a normal, healthy self-awareness. I mean that in the poetic sense. Things like poetry and music are very primal, and to tap into that you need to almost walk the edge of sanity. Some say the purpose of psychedelics is to gain that type of self-awareness, so you can really see why an ambitious young talent like Brian was interested in pushing himself like that.

[OBLiO]

Here's a quote from The Act Of Creation for those who know about the sandbox & SMiLE.

...though unconscious process cannot be governed by conscious volition, they can at least be coaxed into activity by certain tricks acquired at the price of a little patience. Friedrich Schiller learned to get himself into a creative frame of mind by smelling rotten apples, Turgenev by keeping his feet in a bucket of hot water....

Anyway, I'm sure such passages won't move those who'd require Turgenev to have his feet in sand to qualify for association with SMiLE's sandbox but inaccurate non scholars such as myself throw caution to the wind and just make up false crap as we see fit (by a ratio of two to one).

I hope photos of the sandbox surface.


ESQ Editor posted an article under the gnosticism thread - the phrase "saw God". Is it possible that taking LSD actually causes a distortion? That a person already sees God, but isn't thinking of it that way conciously... that the spiritual awakening isn't necessarily an awakening. The phrase "bird on a wire". What if seeing that bird on the wire becomes a distraction. That what actually takes place is a distortion of the hand God dealt you in how you conciously and subconciously interact with the physical realm and through distortion a person can become distracted and focuses on one thing or another which subtracts from his interactions in other areas.

I mentioned the song Drive-In. Music, humor, step out of my head into the drive-in watching those guys get chased around the lot, look up at the screen and see Smokey the Bear "only you can prevent forest fires".... I smell the chili dog and taste the coke... all that... no assistance needed. Spiritual connection with that experience.

Curious what your thoughts are... and check this out... found a Smokey the Bear ad from 1963...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pul1ArXYEyA

[Runaways]

Let's let move on and let smarter minds stay where they are.

[Bill Tobelman]

The idea of the riddle came into being at this time, and from lots of different sources be it Loren, the How To Speak Hip LP, or his reported bookstore flashback.

Cross reference this with The Act Of Creation and all its riddle references & its explanation of tools to do the job.....

But you have to add this to Brian's ultimate religious experience & then you start to get what SMiLE is all about.

[Dunderhead]

The idea of the riddle came into being at this time, and from lots of different sources be it Loren, the How To Speak Hip LP, or his reported bookstore flashback.

Cross reference this with The Act Of Creation and all its riddle references & its explanation of tools to do the job.....

But you have to add this to Brian's ultimate religious experience & then you start to get what SMiLE is all about.

It's about context more than anything else. You have to understand where Brian was in the universe. I don't know if he saw that PSA or not, but it's important to keep in mind that THAT was the type of thing he would be exposed to, and if he hadn't seen that specific one he probably had seen a dozen like it.

I think even looking at what restaurants Brian liked to go to can be valuable. Didn't he like to go to a mexican place in Venice? I'm trying to convince a friend of mine who lives in LA to go there and check it out. One can sort of see these little things exerting their own influence. Or like how he cried at Flipper. 

[Bill Tobelman]

Oblio said:

ESQ Editor posted an article under the gnosticism thread - the phrase "saw God". Is it possible that taking LSD actually causes a distortion? That a person already sees God, but isn't thinking of it that way conciously... that the spiritual awakening isn't necessarily an awakening. The phrase "bird on a wire". What if seeing that bird on the wire becomes a distraction. That what actually takes place is a distortion of the hand God dealt you in how you conciously and subconciously interact with the physical realm and through distortion a person can become distracted and focuses on one thing or another which subtracts from his interactions in other areas.

There's a great quote where Brian says that all living things are Christ, to be alive is to be a Christ. On that level your idea has legs & more.

Also on that same level everything acquires a level of spirituality which is more in line with the Native American's beliefs & is one I wholeheartedly endorse.

[OBLiO]

There's a great quote where Brian says that all living things are Christ, to be alive is to be a Christ. On that level your idea has legs & more.

Also on that same level everything acquires a level of spirituality which is more in line with the Native American's beliefs & is one I wholeheartedly endorse.

Christ is conciousness and conciousness is a force of nature. Yes?
No shortcuts to enlightment... but you can create a thing or two here and there little by little and it can be a positive experience. No martyrdom required. No monkeying with the synapses. Yes?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I said:

The SMiLE music was never written under the influence of LSD or anything like that. Brian said "gotta have a clear head" for recording--so the studio was off limits as well for that sort of thing as well.

Andrew said:

According to Brian, the first point of order for himself and VDP in the creation of the Smile material was the purchase of some $3000 worth of Afghanistan's finest. VDP added Desbutols (speed) to the mix. This is well-documented. You were saying ?

So that's like acid Andrew? You'd know right?

You said "or anything like that", indicating drugs in general, not merely hallucinogens.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The SMiLE music was never written under the influence of LSD or anything like that. Brian said "gotta have a clear head" for recording--so the studio was off limits as well for that sort of thing as well.

According to Brian, the first point of order for himself and VDP in the creation of the Smile material was the purchase of some $3000 worth of Afghanistan's finest. VDP added Desbutols (speed) to the mix. This is well-documented. You were saying ?

Holy fuckballs that's a lot of weed, esp. for 1966 dollars. If he'd have gotten popped, he would have spent a LONG time in jail over that one.

[Mark A. Moore]

This thread is wildly entertaining . . .