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621061 Posts in 24988 Topics by 3550 Members - Latest Member: SunshineOverClouds November 24, 2017, 12:03:20 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 22, 2017, 11:43:07 PM
That was pretty much it. Didn't have any real lasting power with the indie scene either; since 2000, pretty much everything has been self-released and has been heard by very few. They release music pretty much just to satisfy themselves with no delusion of any kind of sales. No worries there...I've been doing that for 16 years now LOL
Me, too.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your Top 3 Favorite Solo Albums on: November 22, 2017, 11:42:18 PM
1- Youngblood - Carl Wilson

2- Carl Wilson - self titled

3- Orange Crate Art - Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 22, 2017, 11:39:49 PM
I find it ironic that Mike's Beach Boys are playing his new solo tunes, while Brian's band just plays the same old songs night after night. My opinion - i'm glad Mike is playing the new songs. I've been listening to some of the songs on youtube, and am enjoying what I've heard so far. Yeah, the autotune is not the best thing in the world, but that's how records are made these days. I will write more when I've had time to listen more. But it's not the trainwreck I was expecting.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / Brian Wilson Solo Albums / Re: Brian Wilson on: November 22, 2017, 10:19:05 PM
some of his stuff is really good
Brian's or Landy's?  LOL
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Manson Dead on: November 21, 2017, 11:46:59 PM
Im sure Dennis is in a better place.. DW grew up in a family that went to church and were believers..  He knew right from wrong and a good guy just a little wild in his youth.. He never talked about manson again and was deeply troubled by ever knowing him.. im sure his addictions went out of control from the guilt of knowing him.. I never knew DW but do know about addictions and guilt.. i use my own problems to try to understand DW.. just my take on things..

Nicely stated.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 21, 2017, 11:46:12 PM
Nobody ever points out that - at the time - the High Llamas were passed around and written about a lot as sort of an "up-and-coming" indie band, and they were one of the first to be associated with that kind of '60s-revival alt-rock music scene from the '90s. It was a complete accident that Johnston stumbled upon Hawaii, and by extension, a musician of Sean O'Hagan's caliber. Keep in mind that the 1995 Paley timeline coincides EXACTLY with the rise of Britpop.

It's likely that he saw potential in the High Llamas as the counterpart to Oasis or Blur or something - a case of a broken clock being right twice a day. It had nothing to do with being "hip". This is a guy who, only three years before, thought that the group should record "Shortenin' Bread" with the Fat Boys as their next big hit.

And considering that the Beach Boys totally missed the boat on punk and new wave, it's easy to see why they didn't care too much for the Paley material, and why they wasted so much time trying to break into the charts again.

Good point. Heck, the Old Wheeler Cabinessence Board shared web space with the High Llamas board ,too.

Makes you wonder though if they had gone with O'Hagen.  The High Llamas' moment in the sun, such as it was, didn't last all that long....is there a chance that any collaboration would have been looked at as a novelty and too much "of its time"? We'll never know now, but it does make one wonder.
Did the High Llamas actually have some hit records? I thought they were just an underground band popular with critics.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 21, 2017, 11:43:41 PM
The Beach Boys played new Mike Love alongside classic hits at the "Unleash The Love" listening party last night. This is not okay.
Sure it is. Glad they are playing some of the new songs. Wonder if any of them will make it into the regular setlist? And for how long?
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Manson Dead on: November 21, 2017, 12:35:54 AM
Wonder if hes looking for dennis in the afterlife to kick his ass some more  for ripping off his song
Manson won't be seeing Dennis.

And yes, I know Dennis was no saint, but I still like to think of him in a better place.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 21, 2017, 12:32:58 AM
I think that the simple truth was that Carl was as square, in his own way, as Mike and Al. The Paley stuff was too hip for his taste.
Hmm...I've heard a good bit of the Paley sessions, and 'hip' was not a word that came to mind. Retro, yes. 60's style recordings, yes. Some good tunes in there and some throwaways, but I don't believe it was too 'out there' for Carl, Mike and Al to appreciate. It's more likely that all had reservations about turning over recording of a new album to a guy who hadn't been a full time band member in a good many years.
10  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Bob Dylan Thread on: November 21, 2017, 12:14:20 AM
I generally don’t get Concert  box sets - I usually can’t afford them and I am not interested to hear the same or nearly the same set list every night.
But f I had the funds I’d probably consider this one. What I like about Dylan is how he changes up songs. I’ve heard several completely different takes on In the Garden, plus 2 totally different versions of Solid Rock, to give 2 examples. He follows his muse with great results.

In contrast, the BBs have done things the same way over the years. Darlin in 1969 sounds the same as in the 80s. One of the few songs they fooled around with was Help Me Rhonda.

I totally get what you’re saying regarding The Beach Boys....because much of their sound does seem to have stayed the same. But I think us hardcore fans deserve a nice 2 disc album that features some of the crazier and good renditions The Beach Boys have done throughout the years.

Take the Lei’d In Hawaii takes we just got with the Wild Honey set. They sound completely different from anything we’ve heard from them since and it’s still great. Or that crazy rock version of ‘Lookin At Tomorrow’ HeyJude posted recently. It’s really rare, but they have some some really out-there renditions of their songs that should deserve to be on a compilation album.
It can work both ways. They can get positive reviews for trying new versions of old songs; or people can complain that "they changed my favorite song!" I think the BB's were more open to new arrangements in the 70's. By the 80's, they were back to doing the songs as close to the records as possible.
Some Bob fans loved his new arrangements of songs; some didn't. I recall there being some talk of people walking out during his 78 world tour because he wasn't playing them the way they were on the records. The following year, even more people were booing or walking out because he wasn't doing those old songs. Sometimes you just can't win.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 18, 2017, 11:49:22 PM
I think one of the major reason Carl didn't want to work with Brian at that point is right there in that interview footage from the stuff shot during that Baywatch Nights session.  Carl realised his brother needed to get better before touring etc.

Meanwhile Brian was writing and recording literally dozens of new songs with Andy Paley and Don Was. What was Carl offering in terms of new material for the band? Zip/nada/nothing.
Recording is one thing. Touring is another. Brian hadn't toured regularly with the band in ages, just occasional appearances, usually just the big events like the 4th of July shows or Live Aid.
As far as new material from Carl, I think he was saving it for the Like a Brother album. It's always been my gut feeling that at some point after the 1985 album, Carl just gave up as far as moving the Beach Boys forward as a contemporary band. Mike wanted total control, and Carl just stepped aside and let him have it. Mike had his ideas about what was accessible and commercial, and sometimes he was successful - Getcha Back, Kokomo, Wipe Out; other times, Mike's ideas didn't go over with the general public.
I think Carl's focus in the later years was the live band - just making sure the musicians played the songs the way they were supposed to be played, making sure the vocal parts were sung correctly. He heard EVERYTHING - if you hit a bum note, you'd get the "stink eye" from Carl. You didn't want to get that!
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 18, 2017, 11:43:10 PM
I wonder if VDP's attitude towards Brian these days goes back to OCA? I recall an interview where VDP talked about touring with BW in support of the album. Is Van Dyke bitter because that didn't happen?
Denny Laine made the mistake of talking to a writer back in the 80's sort of "off the record", and then those stories ended up in the tabloids. Denny never has an unkind word for McCartney these days, but it seems it is too little, too late. Macca seems to be in touch with other ex-Wings like Denny Seiwell, but Laine is like...well, it's like he never existed.


The same with Pete Best... it's unfortunate because I would have loved to have seen Pete Best on the Beatles anthology series speaking with Paul, George and Ringo about the early years..oh well...
Agreed. If the idea of Anthology was "the story of the Beatles, told by the Beatles", then Pete should have been included. And leaving Denny out of Wingspan - the only person not named McCartney to be in the band for the entire 10 years - left a huge hole in the story.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 18, 2017, 11:40:02 PM
One other note...I remember being at a 1983 Beach Boys concert in April of that year at the old Meadowlands in New Jersey, when the Beach Boys still played and filled arenas. They broke into Looking at Tomorrow, and did a great job on it....I believe one of the condiions of Carl coming back into the band was more practice, and the addition of different songs from the cannon into the set lists, with new arrangements. Clearly this was one. What struck me most about this show, it was the last time I saw Dennis Wilson perform....he was in attendance, performed solo YASB at the end barely being able to speak much less sing...he was in bad shape. The next day in the papers the review of the show said "Joe Cocker showed up and sang YASB"...that's how bad he sounded.
Those were good times, other than Dennis deteriorating before our eyes. Carl was back, and the guys actually appeared to be enjoying playing again. Never got to hear them play Looking at Tomorrow, but I was impressed that they had worked a couple songs from Youngblood into the show, along with somewhat lesser known songs like You're So Good to Me and Warmth of the Sun.
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Bob Dylan Thread on: November 18, 2017, 11:35:54 PM
Yes it is wild that there hasn’t been an up to date Dylan thread here, although there are a number on SS who have said that they don’t care for him.
I just finished reading Bob Dylan - A Spiritual Life. It focuses mainly on the period starting in the late 70s when he “found religion” (although spiritual/religious references can be found in his earliest songs).
I didn’t listen to his songs from the late ‘70s to mid 80s because music critics said the music wasn’t any good. Turns out those critics simply couldn’t stand the thought of Dylan expressing his strong beliefs in song. When will I learn not to listen to “experts” but find out for myself if there’s something to like.

The new “bootleg”series (no 13) just came out and focuses on this period. I heard a few tracks from these and liked them, so today I bought the 2 CD set. I listened to the first CD today and really enjoyed it. Guess it helps that I am not turned off by people singing religious/Spiritual songs, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu , etc. everybody’s got to find their own way.
At least I know one person on SS who likes this period in Dylan’s musical career - Watamushi (as indicated by his present avatar).

Oh, on that Rolling Thunder Video, while listening to Shut Down Part II: that song works very well with Elvis’ Little Sister.  Smiley

Yeah, I dig Dylan in that period. Slow Train Coming and Shot of Love are one of (a lot of) fave Dylan albums of mine. I have only listened to Saved once and didn't like it very much, but I feel I need to give it another listens.

My favorite tracks from the era are: Gotta Serve Somebody, Precious Angel, I Believe in You, Do Right to Me Baby, Heart of Mine, Property of Jesus, Every Grain of Sand, You Changed My Life.

I'm not a Christian, but I always enjoy gospel-influenced stuff from anyone-Brian(He Come Down, That Same Song), Dylan, Paul Simon (Love Me Like a Rock, Gone at Last) , Paul McCartney(That Day is Done from Flowers in the Dirt is one of my favorite and I think there's gospel influence, but it isn't quite obvious), etc. I don't know much about the culture of Christians or the historical background behind gospel music, but I can't help loving a certain sense of magnificence in this kind of music.

And yeah, I need to give the BS13 a chance, but there's been so much on my wish list lately. I listened to the samples on spotify yesterday, and they sounded quite good though.


I only have the 2 cd version; hoping our local library gets the big box, cause I can't afford it. And there's nothing wrong with non Christians listening to gospel. I'm not a Hindu, but I love George Harrison's religious songs.
I can't afford it either, but my local library wouldn't get it, so I'll be waiting till the price goes lower so that I can buy it.  I'd go with 2 Cd version before that, though.
Some of the stuff that didn't make it to the 2 cd version is turning up on Spotify and youtube. I'll take it anyway I can get it.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 17, 2017, 10:04:38 PM
Add to that timeline, and I realize I've talked about this before but it's relevant - In an interview with Brian conducted August 1995, he mentioned inviting the Beach Boys to his house for a listening party so he could play them more of the tracks he was working up. And despite them being described as "enthusiastic" to work again with Brian, they all canceled on him and didn't show up. That hurt Brian, and add that Aug 1995 interview to several where he says he wants to work with The Beach Boys, and had material which he was excited to present and actively working on with Paley and Was, yet the band seemed to balk if not be outright rude about even listening to it, let alone cutting more tracks. It did hurt Brian, he says it hurt him to have these cancellations and whatnot, and yet he kept saying he wanted to work with them.

At some point, isn't it a natural reaction for someone who keeps hearing "no" and can't even get his own band to come to his place to listen to new songs to just say "f*** this" and move on? The fact his brother was one of the louder voices in all of this had to hurt even more.

Wow. Compare and contrast to 1966/67 when Brian's friends would eagerly come over for listening parties when he'd invite them. How much of a let down must that have been to see how much everything had changed in his life. Brian thrives off of good vibes and excitement from others when sharing his music. And the friends who attended the SMiLE acetate listening parties were the ones that Brian's mates (at least Mike?) labelled as leaches or not good for Brian to be associated with, yet those friends seemed to be so much more supportive than Brian's own family/bandmates when one compares these experiences. So very sad.

That's a good comparison to draw - In the mid 60's Brian hosted these listening parties where he wanted to play whatever new music he was working on for friends and associates and get their reactions. It was the first time Van Dyke Parks personally interacted with Brian, at a listening party where David Crosby took Van Dyke to hear advance mixes of the Sloop John B single.

Then in 1995, Brian's own band shines on him.

Keep the year 1995 in mind as there is more to be said about the timeline and the years in which all of this was happening.

The yr Brian called Carl an asshole. There's also an interview from around that time where, if i recall correctly, Brian tells Melinda that he wants to buy a monkey cause they fling sh*t at people  LOL
I remember reading that interview where Brian called Carl (and Mike) an @$$hole. Brian was liable to say about anything back then, but that comment made me sad. If anyone in the Beach Boys DIDN'T deserve to be called an a---ole, it was Carl. Carl was the strong, quiet presence that kept them together. As soon as he was gone, they splintered.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1995 studio footage. Brian, Mike and Paley on: November 17, 2017, 09:47:53 PM
This video is packed with emotions and observations...


2) Paley seems to be leading the session more than BW.

Sadly, I think that's become the norm.
17  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Bob Dylan Thread on: November 17, 2017, 09:44:51 PM
Yes it is wild that there hasn’t been an up to date Dylan thread here, although there are a number on SS who have said that they don’t care for him.
I just finished reading Bob Dylan - A Spiritual Life. It focuses mainly on the period starting in the late 70s when he “found religion” (although spiritual/religious references can be found in his earliest songs).
I didn’t listen to his songs from the late ‘70s to mid 80s because music critics said the music wasn’t any good. Turns out those critics simply couldn’t stand the thought of Dylan expressing his strong beliefs in song. When will I learn not to listen to “experts” but find out for myself if there’s something to like.

The new “bootleg”series (no 13) just came out and focuses on this period. I heard a few tracks from these and liked them, so today I bought the 2 CD set. I listened to the first CD today and really enjoyed it. Guess it helps that I am not turned off by people singing religious/Spiritual songs, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu , etc. everybody’s got to find their own way.
At least I know one person on SS who likes this period in Dylan’s musical career - Watamushi (as indicated by his present avatar).

Oh, on that Rolling Thunder Video, while listening to Shut Down Part II: that song works very well with Elvis’ Little Sister.  Smiley

Yeah, I dig Dylan in that period. Slow Train Coming and Shot of Love are one of (a lot of) fave Dylan albums of mine. I have only listened to Saved once and didn't like it very much, but I feel I need to give it another listens.

My favorite tracks from the era are: Gotta Serve Somebody, Precious Angel, I Believe in You, Do Right to Me Baby, Heart of Mine, Property of Jesus, Every Grain of Sand, You Changed My Life.

I'm not a Christian, but I always enjoy gospel-influenced stuff from anyone-Brian(He Come Down, That Same Song), Dylan, Paul Simon (Love Me Like a Rock, Gone at Last) , Paul McCartney(That Day is Done from Flowers in the Dirt is one of my favorite and I think there's gospel influence, but it isn't quite obvious), etc. I don't know much about the culture of Christians or the historical background behind gospel music, but I can't help loving a certain sense of magnificence in this kind of music.

And yeah, I need to give the BS13 a chance, but there's been so much on my wish list lately. I listened to the samples on spotify yesterday, and they sounded quite good though.


I only have the 2 cd version; hoping our local library gets the big box, cause I can't afford it. And there's nothing wrong with non Christians listening to gospel. I'm not a Hindu, but I love George Harrison's religious songs.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 16, 2017, 11:11:39 PM
Wasn't Melinda also a factor in the songs not ever being released? I've read that she didn't like the material either and in turn pushed him towards working with Joe Thomas instead.
I remember that being reported in Rolling Stone circa 1999.

19  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Bob Dylan Thread on: November 16, 2017, 11:02:29 PM
Yes it is wild that there hasn’t been an up to date Dylan thread here, although there are a number on SS who have said that they don’t care for him.
I just finished reading Bob Dylan - A Spiritual Life. It focuses mainly on the period starting in the late 70s when he “found religion” (although spiritual/religious references can be found in his earliest songs).
I didn’t listen to his songs from the late ‘70s to mid 80s because music critics said the music wasn’t any good. Turns out those critics simply couldn’t stand the thought of Dylan expressing his strong beliefs in song. When will I learn not to listen to “experts” but find out for myself if there’s something to like.

The new “bootleg”series (no 13) just came out and focuses on this period. I heard a few tracks from these and liked them, so today I bought the 2 CD set. I listened to the first CD today and really enjoyed it. Guess it helps that I am not turned off by people singing religious/Spiritual songs, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu , etc. everybody’s got to find their own way.
At least I know one person on SS who likes this period in Dylan’s musical career - Watamushi (as indicated by his present avatar).

Oh, on that Rolling Thunder Video, while listening to Shut Down Part II: that song works very well with Elvis’ Little Sister.  Smiley

Although most of the stuff on the new cd is from soundboard cassettes, some of these songs sound much more energized in the live versions. I think it would be hard to improve upon Slow Train Coming as an album, but Saved always felt comparatively lifeless to me. I was lucky to see Bob twice in 1980 - January and November in Seattle at the Paramount. The first show was very moving, just the idea of Bob dropping all the older material, doing a complete concert of just his new songs. It was very passionate, with, of course, a few catcalls from the nonbelievers in the crowd. The November show was, musically, the best show I've ever seen him do. There were still plenty of the new gospel songs in the show, but he'd also brought back a lot of the older songs, and a few covers. Bob and the musicians just seemed to really be enjoying what they were doing that night.
BTW, love the avatar.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: November 15, 2017, 11:22:40 PM


2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances


In a better world, Brian could do a Wild Honey show, or Sunflower, or even Beach Boys Today....but the general public doesn't even know those albums.
I'm surprised, though, that Mike and Bruce aren't doing an Endless Summer show.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 15, 2017, 11:20:03 PM
I wonder if Carl was thinking that the Paley stuff sounded TOO vintage sounding,too 60's and maybe thought they sounded dated..of course that's the part of the songs I like best and I hope Brian does one more Wall of sound 60's sounding CD soon..it seem Carl was into the more mello A&R type stuff in line with Chicago and Christopher Cross while the BB were doing songs with heavy drum machines, heavy synths and heavy guitars..the Paley stuff sounded more like Today or Summer Days/Nights than Problem Child,...



I think you nailed it there. And the fact that no label ever stepped up to release the Paley sessions "as is" indicates that there was a perception that this type of production/recording would not fare well in the marketplace circa 1996. Sure, it might have received some positive reviews from the hip crowd, but that's not what the BB's were looking for in 1995. Then, as always, they were looking for a vehicle to get them back on the charts.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: November 13, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
So does this mean he won't be touring behind a new album in 2018? Or is the new album going to be "Pet Sounds Live - Again"?
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 13, 2017, 01:40:35 PM
Wow. The covers are quite pointless.

Al and Brian's cover songs on their solo albums have been criticized to be pointless very often. But most of them had something to make it worth listening to.

But, as far as I listened to the samples, there was no such thing in Mike's covers. Too similar to the original, in other words, Obviously very little efforts were made for the recordings of the covers.

I'd rather have a full live album of The current Beach Boys.

Al re-recording BB songs for his "Postcards" album wasn't the most inspired choice of all time, but he did indeed do different arrangements for the songs for the most part. "Rhonda" was done in a blues arrangement (somewhat closer to the old 70s BB live arrangement), "California Dreamin'" was done in a pretty cool stripped-down arrangement, etc.
I thought those remakes were very good, although, yes, I wondered why Al didn't come up with more new songs. But I get it now. These are the songs the guys sing night after night in concert, so I guess it makes sense to have new studio versions of them. And maybe some casual fans will buy the cd's if they see some familiar titles on them.
24  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Fats Domino RIP on: November 12, 2017, 10:29:33 PM
I was waiting to see what Rolling Stone might do in memory of Fats, but unlike Chuck Berry, he didn't get the cover. I didn't even recognize the woman on the cover. Tom Petty's death got a lot more attention, but I guess that happens when you die young. Fats lived a long, full life, but hadn't been active musically in a long time. To the younger generations, he's either someone they're not familiar with, or someone they heard their parents or (gasp!) grandparents talk about.

Sad, but true. Yet, Fats Domino belongs on the “Mount Rushmore” of Rock and Roll and is one of the reasons a magazine like Rolling Stone even exists.
Absolutely.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Touring Lineups on: November 10, 2017, 09:00:56 PM
Chiming in on a back ground player mentioned earlier. Joe Chemay  plays bass for Peter Cetera now, and sings bkgd on the new Roy Orbison release!

I saw Chemay's name on the credits for the new Orbison orchestral overdub album (also saw Robbie McIntosh formerly of McCartney's band in the credits as well).

I have mixed feelings about the new Orbison album. It doesn't hurt anyone, and some of the arrangements are nice. But the "rock" songs sound kind of goofy with a full orchestra, while the ballads already had various string arrangements and whatnot on them. Also not a fan of the manufactured "duet" on "I Drove All Night."


I feel the same way about hearing Elvis Presley sing "Burning Love" with orchestral backing.
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