According to the internet, Bruce co-wrote Hey Little Cobra, which sold over a million copies in the early 60s.  And was a staff producer for a record label.  He wrote a string of decent BBs songs (instrumental, Disney Girls, Dierdre).  Depending on your take on "songwriter" he "wrote" prominent and complicated background walls for huge Elton John and Pink Floyd songs.  He got a flippin' song of the year grammy in the mid-70s.  His 80s work with the band was at times good (She Believes in....).  Why hasn't anyone suggested Bruce, his credentials are actually much longer than anyone else....

*I'm not much of a Bruce guy in general.  I like Dennis and Carl's solo records and BB contributions a ton, as far as personal taste goes.  But the question was about "who is the better songwriter" and that sounds like a much different question. 

Most of us are probably biased in this area, not having heard much of Bruce's pre-BB's work, and probably unaware of some of his outside work in the 70's. I think where Bruce might outdistance his bandmates (except Brian, of course), is as an arranger.
The problem with rating the BB's as songwriters is that most of them have had periods where they were fairly productive, followed by times when the songwriting muse seems to have left them. For example, did Carl write any new songs between Holland in 1973 and LA in 79? He seemed very inspired as a writer in the early 70's..followed by several years of nothing. Then he started writing again around 78-79, and was pretty prolific up till 1985. And then another drought. Ditto for Al. He's gone years without putting out any new material.

I thought Dennis is looking pretty good. Hard to believe what happened to his appearance in the last year of his life just two years after this was taken

He looks okay, but his voice is gone. 

The Carl songs are the ones I go back to over and over on the later albums. Full Sail, Livin' With a Heartache, Where I Belong, Angel Come Home, It's Gettin' Late, Keep the Summer Alive,  the solo stuff. Of course Carl's songs have the advantage of usually being sung by Carl!

I have no interest in the symphonic disc, but sadly, that is the kind of stuff the general public buys. Maybe we will get a combined 68/69 set next year.

[I'm also sick and tired of Dennis and Carl being relegated to being the "dead guys." They meant a whole lot more to the Beach Boys and their success than just being footnotes]

Why does the public continue to dwell on events that happened decades ago, especially with things that people got over and left in the past in their own lives? This isn't just "dirt," it's archeological dirt. I hate seeing the Wilson brothers' past problems constantly dredged back up, especially when both Carl and Brian moved on. Yes, those events in Australia happened, but they're only a small part of the story.

Dear members of the press, please stop asking people with known drug agendas (anti or pro) about these events. The same goes for serial killer questions regarding events 50+ years in the past. Stop pretending that gossip is newsworthy. Thank you.

I'm also sick and tired of Dennis and Carl being relegated to being the "dead guys." They meant a whole lot more to the Beach Boys and their success than just being footnotes.
I guess it would take too much effort for the average reporter to actually listen to some Beach Boys recordings in preparation for an interview. It wouldn't hurt, though, if, when Dennis or Carl are mentioned, to talk about what what a great songwriter, singer and producer Carl became, how he kept the band together; how Dennis developed as a songwriter with his own style.
Ok, rant off.

Yes!  Pretty much every article written about the BB these days refers to Dennis as "the one that drowned in 1983" and Carl as the one that died of lung cancer in 98.  Like that's all that's worth mentioning about them.  How about mentioning that Carl ran the band for many years and was the lead vocalist on arguably their most famous songs? 

Why does the public continue to dwell on events that happened decades ago, especially with things that people got over and left in the past in their own lives? This isn't just "dirt," it's archeological dirt. I hate seeing the Wilson brothers' past problems constantly dredged back up, especially when both Carl and Brian moved on. Yes, those events in Australia happened, but they're only a small part of the story.

Dear members of the press, please stop asking people with known drug agendas (anti or pro) about these events. The same goes for serial killer questions regarding events 50+ years in the past. Stop pretending that gossip is newsworthy. Thank you.

I'm also sick and tired of Dennis and Carl being relegated to being the "dead guys." They meant a whole lot more to the Beach Boys and their success than just being footnotes.

Ok, rant off.

Rant appreciated.

I'm glad to hear he is getting his back fixed as well.  I saw Brian live last October and left feeling more worried about him than anything else.  He could barely walk.  It was more than being "escorted" on and off the stage, he was nearly being carried.  And I'm sure being in pain contributed to his "I don't really want to be here" style of singing that night.

Wouldn't it be nice if Brian could just relax and enjoy his senior years, instead of playing the performing puppet, being dragged out for one more performance of the songs he wrote and recorded with the BB's 50 years ago? But of course relaxing and talking a walk in the park doesn't exactly bring in the dollars.

Mike understandably fails to mention that perhaps if he hadn't thwarted the Wilson brothers' more progressive musical direction after 1975, iconoclastic as it may have been, in favor of commerciality at all costs, they wouldn't have been so frustrated and felt a need to increasingly turn to hard drugs to escape such a creatively stifling professional situation.

I’m not a Mike apologist, and I hate that he badmouths dead relatives and bandmates, but blaming him for the Wilsons’ drug use is really unfair, in my opinion. 

Unfair?? You try being in a band  with a second guessing, ungrateful schmuck all those years. I guarantee you'll either quit or, in Brian's case, find something that makes putting up with that clown a lot easier while writing songs for him to sing. 

And exactly how long have you worked with Mike???

I love how we blame everything that went wrong in the Beach Boys on Mike, or Murray, or Landy. Are not individuals at least partially responsible for their own behavior?

[I Don't Know/Come On To Me]

What does it mean these days when an artist releases a single? And in particular, a "double A sided single"? It's just a download, right? There's no physical single, whether it be a vinyl 45, a cassette or cd single.

Calling I Don't Know/Come On To Me a "double A sided single" is gimmicky, but it's just marketing. I'm not aware of a vinyl release. I guess, he's releasing two songs (in effect, two singles) simultaneously to promote a new album, so, why not? While I'm not sold on the "double A sided single" marketing angle, I do think releasing digital singles is just as legitimate as any other format. They're just less important from a consumer standpoint sometimes, because you can often just download any song off an album.

Yeah, that's why it annoys me when people talk about their new "singles". Every freaking song on the album is  a single by that definition.

God, I hope so! I'm kind of skeptical about it though. Maybe it's just the pessimist in me.  I had read a few months ago that supposedly the Esher demos were going to be released. To be honest, I'm really surprised that we didn't get 50th anniversary sets of either Rubber Soul or Revolver(or both). Both of those albums are in my mind crucial to the history and career of The Beatles.

But this is the Beatles and Apple, they haven't been exactly generous with Vault Beatles. We were lucky to get the Anthology sets.
I doubt we'll get anything more than a reissue of the White Album on White Vinyl.

I'm really surprised The Beatles / Apple haven't released more in recent years.    Even that mash up Love album sold pretty well IIRC. 

There are a couple things the fans have been wanting for years, and still, no sign that they will come out:
Let it Be - the film (on dvd, with outtakes, etc)
Shea Stadium (yeah, I know, we got the Ron Howard doc a couple years ago....)

I don't know what their problem is, I guess they are just waiting till all the Beatles fans are dead to put this stuff out. And that's not going to happen, because the Beatles have fans in all age groups. They are the one British Invasion band that kids in 2018 can tell you about.
Well, maybe the Rolling Stones. But the Stones are still active. The Fab Four have been inactive for decades, but that music still brings in new fans.
So come on, guys, give the people what they want!

Shea Stadium is an absolute no brainer.   For the life of me, I don't understand why it sits on the shelf.   Especially after they showed it in theaters following the Ron Howard doc (which I found a tad underwhelming to be honest).

I remember when George passed, there were rumors of a deluxe Let It Be DVD with gobs of bonus features, but it never happened.    I know it's not exactly their proudest moment, but come on, just about every Beatles fan has already seen the movie.   It was available on VHS and Laserdisc, and bootleg DVDs are very easy to find. 

The Ron Howard doc didn't impress me at all. The same stuff was covered better in the Anthology.

It's not for nothing, as well, that Brian *looks* great in those pics with Carnie. Rest assured, if he had taken some sort of serious downturn and was readmitted, he'd look worse for the wear and you wouldn't see Carnie posting pics.

I'm also guessing they want to be as proactive as Brian's health is allowing in rehabbing, as he's due to go back out on tour in less than a month now (which would presumably be preceded by at least a little bit of rehearsal).

What's there to rehearse? Smiling and waving?

I like the middle eight on Long Haired Lady by Paul and Linda McCartney, but the rest of it leaves me cold.

What does it mean these days when an artist releases a single? And in particular, a "double A sided single"? It's just a download, right? There's no physical single, whether it be a vinyl 45, a cassette or cd single.

My dad and I always said that Elvis and the Blue Moon Boys were the first rock&roll "supergroup". I'm glad that the other guys were inducted into the Hall of Fame, but I think they should have been inducted along with Elvis.

Unfortunately, the Crickets weren't even inducted with Buddy Holly - despite the fact that there were records of the Crickets with Buddy released as just "the Crickets".
But I am glad that DJ, Scotty and Bill were finally recognized by the HOF. When I listen to those early records, I am always impressed with their playing, even though it was not on a virtuoso level. It was just what those records needed, not a wasted note anywhere.

I can only find one example of Carl being asked about the "Australia episode", and that was that 1989 European interview that someone (very graciously) translated and posted here. I think he was still trying to not really discuss it and not divulge any detail. Which is totally understandable.

Carl is a rare example of going off the deep end (whether only alcohol or alcohol and other things) but then *COMPLETELY* cleaning it up, and presumably without any major intervention (at least intervention on the Landy scale like Brian went through). Carl appeared to be drunk (and/or high) at shows as evidenced on audio and video from late 1976 or so until some time in 1978. And then, by later in 1978 or certainly by 1979, he was ONE HUNDRED PERCENT turned around and the most sober, straight-laced, straight-faced, squeaky clean guy on stage (okay, well that was maybe still Al!).

Beyond the extremely poor taste Mike continually shows in bringing up the Wilson brothers and their *decades-old* problems is that he sometimes lumps Carl in with Brian and Dennis, and Brian and Dennis had much more long-term, severe, chronic problems that were evidenced *in public* (on stage and on record) for a much longer period of time than Carl. With Carl, he sounded a little "slurry" on studio recordings for a year or two, and had his year or two of being moderately to severely sloshed on stage, and by 1979 and every year through 1997 (with the exception of his 81/82 hiatus), he was the most pro, dependable, clean, dignified guy on stage (along with Al).

That was certainly the public perception, and at least it seemed true onstage. That being said, I'm reasonably sure that Carl had issues with alcohol his last couple of decades. Brian's discredited (in some ways) first book touches on it, and folks who were around the scene have noted it as well. It certainly wasn't on the level of what happened in the late 70s, however.

I wouldn't give much credibility to anything about Carl in that terrible book. I will say, though, that Carl had a lot of heavy duty stuff to deal with in his later years - Brian's ongoing problems with drugs and alcohol, Dennis' troubles with same, the Landy situation, Audree's declining health... and finally, Carl's own health issues. I can't fault a guy dealing with all that if he wants to relax and enjoy a drink from time to time. We don't give him enough credit for cleaning up after the debacle in Australia. We don't give him enough credit for always giving his best on stage, cheerleaders or not; he wasn't just dialing it in, night after night. He always cared about the quality of the performance - even when some members apparently didn't.

Oh, I think it's quite clear that they hated every freaking second of it, singing those artsy songs, instead of " come on baby let's go surfing in my hot rod".  That's why, when they got control of the band, they came up with songs like Long Promised Road and It's About Time.

There was a time when I thought Go All the Way by the Raspberries was Fleetwood Mac. 

Also, I'm ashamed to admit this on a BB board, but I used to think Surf City and Little Old Lady from Pasadena were Beach Boys songs. 

Go Your Own Way/Go All the Way mashup?

I would bet many people think of those 2 Jan and Dean songs as BB's songs - the BB's did them in concert many times.

I used to get some band names mixed up:

the Pixies and the Posies is the only one i can think of right now

Oops, misread the thread title, thought it said Summer in Paradise back on the Billboard 200.

Beginning with Live in London, I think all of Carl's live performances of "Darlin'" are rocking more than the excellent studio version.

Yeah, puts the studio cut in the shade. Part of it is he just became a better singer as time went on.

What if the BB's had played Monterey with a new set list and presentation? Instead of the striped shirts, or the white suits, just walk on stage in the duds they'd been sleeping in. Show starts off with Dennis beating the bloody piss out of his f----ing drum set! Carl takes his beloved Rickenbacker and smashes the s---- out of it, and Mike intones "you'll never hear surf music again!" Then Brian walks out, and encourages the crowd to get into a huge brawl, cause he wants to record the sound of a real rock festival riot.
That would have been awesome.
 

I think if you were to list the coolest things ever to appear on screen, you would have to include Rick and Dino singing "My Rifle, Pony and Me" in Rio Bravo. The Duke close by. I watch that movie a couple of times a year, and that's the epitome of cool, that scene.

The man was awesome. He was there at the very beginning, had the first #1 on the Hot 100. Did he suffer from being a teen idol, maybe wasn't taken a seriously as he should have? And then when he transitioned into the Stone Canyon era he didn't get the respect he deserved. Man, Garden Party is a great tune.

If it was up to me, Rick would receive the credit for creating country rock instead of Gram Parsons.

When I first read the thread title, I thought it said "Weird Al's Commercial Instincts Under Utilized?"

I think Al could definitely have added more to the band throughout the years (compared to the amount he actually did)... in particular, I think there should have been more Al leads and less Mike leads on the early tunes.  I also think Al's offerings as a songwriter could have blossomed more, but he wasn't really taken seriously being the one non-family member in the band, and I get the feeling he didn't want to step on anyone's toes by trying to "push" more of his songs through.

I would have to agree that, yes, Weird Al's commercial instincts have been under utilized.
For example, Pancreas should have been a single. Any BW fan would immediately recognize it as the great Smile era tribute it is.
 

One aspect of the reunion tour that bothered me was how little of the new songs they played live.
If they were planning to do it again, it should be an album that all the guys are involved in, not just a Brian project that they sing on. And they should spend enough time in tour rehearsals to make the new songs part of the show.
And I seriously can't imagine any of the above happening.
So open up those vaults!

[The vault is the reunion. The vault is the star. The vault is the future.]

Everything Jude said is right.

2012 was a beautiful fluke.

The ultimate fact is that. . .

The vault is the reunion.
The vault is the star.
The vault is the future.

Whatever else happens -- be it joint promotional events, outsourced musical products -- it's what's in those vaults that MATTERS.
Everything else is everything else.

 

Nice to see others share sentiments similar to mine.

But i'm all for opening the vaults further - more studio outtakes, live recordings, videos; that's where the BB's future lies IMHO.