Down By the Pier

[coco1997]

Brian's official social media accounts commemorated the anniversary of the release of "Beach Boys '85" yesterday and made reference to a few unreleased Brian compositions from those sessions, including one called "Down by the Pier." Do we know anything about this song? Is it available to listen to anywhere?

[All Summer Long]

Everything I've read said that Down by the Pier was sung (and possibly co-written) by Carl; I briefly 'lurked' over at the other board today, where it is being reported as being (if I am understanding correctly) a Carl solo song recorded separately from (but shortly afterwards) the BB85 sessions.  Discussion about some other BB85 outtakes is present on the thread there as well.

[WillJC]

It's briefly recounted in the Wilson Project. Down By the Pier was a song written by Carl, Tom Kelly and Billy Steinberg, and demoed in May 1985, outside of the Levine-produced sessions.

[Mooger Fooger]

The song has a very 80's feel. It is reminiscent of "I just called to Say I love You" by Stevie Wonder as far as the structure and instrumentation goes. Carl sings lead on the demo. It also has a vibe more in place on Youngblood than BB85.

[HeyJude]

Once again I gotta say that the Carl estate is so bizarrely non-existent when it comes to trying to do ANYTHING with his music/legacy. I'm not talking about any one specific track; I know "solo" stuff and "BRI" stuff can get sticky. But I'm pretty sure there are tons of Carl solo demos outside the purview of BRI that Carl's estate could have done something with. Release them as is, have someone (someone GOOD) overdub/finish them, etc.

There's no website with merch, no estate-programmed Spotify playlist, nothing.

I would imagine they feel his legacy is sufficiently served via Beach Boys releases/projects, but I think they should be working on Carl projects. A photo book. Something. Anything. I say this even knowing that it's possible a lot of his solo stuff is maybe slightly bland and akin to the "Beckley/Lamm/Wilson" stuff. That "You Oughta Know" solo Carl demo that was played awhile back sounded like a cross between BB '85 and the Beckley/Lamm/Wilson stuff. Not great, but not bad. But I'm sure they could put together a solid set of his stuff.

[coco1997]

Thanks for all the responses, everyone! So I take it this song has never been booted or can't be heard anywhere?

[Pretty Funky]

This it? Doesn’t really sound like Carl to me.

https://youtu.be/_yQf_5f3OXM?si=vBPwbOGXC8LSCfOR

[Dan Lega]

That YouTube video of "Down By The Pier" is posted by FIVEFIVEONE -- someone notoriously known for exclusively using AI to create "lost" songs by The Beach Boys!

[Mooger Fooger]

The YT clip is most definitely NOT Down by the Pier. It is not in circulation.

[HeyJude]

That's obviously not the Carl track, but it not an AI track either. It's just a song by the same name by some other singer.

Not sure why that person on YouTube is still at it doing really depressingly uncreative jobs of faking tracks; they're not getting any momentum/traction on views there.

You gotta keep an eye out there, though, because other people do randomly seem to drop new stuff out there (e.g. "Drip Drop", "I Really Love You").

[Lonely Summer]

Once again I gotta say that the Carl estate is so bizarrely non-existent when it comes to trying to do ANYTHING with his music/legacy. I'm not talking about any one specific track; I know "solo" stuff and "BRI" stuff can get sticky. But I'm pretty sure there are tons of Carl solo demos outside the purview of BRI that Carl's estate could have done something with. Release them as is, have someone (someone GOOD) overdub/finish them, etc.

There's no website with merch, no estate-programmed Spotify playlist, nothing.

I would imagine they feel his legacy is sufficiently served via Beach Boys releases/projects, but I think they should be working on Carl projects. A photo book. Something. Anything. I say this even knowing that it's possible a lot of his solo stuff is maybe slightly bland and akin to the "Beckley/Lamm/Wilson" stuff. That "You Oughta Know" solo Carl demo that was played awhile back sounded like a cross between BB '85 and the Beckley/Lamm/Wilson stuff. Not great, but not bad. But I'm sure they could put together a solid set of his stuff.

I love Carl's solo stuff, but you're right, the estate has done nothing. Didn't even offer any bonus tracks on the cd versions of his albums.

[Tony S]

It could just be that Carl's estate(Justyn and Jonah) are just lazy, and content to receive Carl's portion of Beach Boys revenue. I know that may be a stretch, esecially since Jonah by all accounts is a very successful realtor to the stars. But as for Justyn, not quite sure what he does to make a living, if anything, other than collect his share of BB touring dollars and other assets from his dad. Who knows, not being a wise guy here, just saying this might be the reason we see virtually nothing from Carl's estate.

[HeyJude]

What I was saying before about the lack of motivation to do anything with Carl's work was pretty much implying that there is either laziness or a very odd conservative approach to cultivating Carl's legacy.

I don't like to assume, but there's also literally NO voice out there speaking for Carl or his work. There's nobody out there giving interviews talking about this stuff. There's no website. Nothing.

Now, it is Carl's sons that are essentially his "vote" at BRI, and so that *has* been a task that has involved some level of work or at least attention. I don't know how much they're involved beyond voting yay or nay. What we do know is that they've certainly not "rocked the boat" at BRI over the years, such that, when apparently one if the first if not the very first times Jonah and Justyn voted *against* Mike on any issue (BRI signing off on the "Love & Mercy" score/soundtrack), Mike made a bit stink about it in interviews.

But I really don't understand why there's ZERO out there from Carl's estate. They did a few charity events years ago, they did that "Best of" Carl CD that had solo and BB tracks on it a zillion years ago (You know how long ago that was? Brad Elliott wrote the liner notes.), but was a super short-run expensive item. I think they signed off on a super limited run Carl Rickenbacker as well, but I think even that was something in the works while Carl was still alive.

I'd argue there should be a Carl website and social media hubs, and they should be putting out albums of his demos, photo books, merch, etc, etc. But even if they didn't want to go that route, why not put out some Carl shirts and posters and raise more money for charity?

There is stuff the estate has, and/or could pursue, that would be worth releasing. Not too long ago a bit of a documentary surfaced on that creepy cult leader guy that headed that organization Carl was part of. I have no interest in watching that guy or organizaton, but plopped in the middle of that, excerpted on YouTube, is some great footage of Carl, including him singing a solo acoustic "I Wish For You" if I recall correctly.

[Lonely Summer]

What I was saying before about the lack of motivation to do anything with Carl's work was pretty much implying that there is either laziness or a very odd conservative approach to cultivating Carl's legacy.

I don't like to assume, but there's also literally NO voice out there speaking for Carl or his work. There's nobody out there giving interviews talking about this stuff. There's no website. Nothing.

Now, it is Carl's sons that are essentially his "vote" at BRI, and so that *has* been a task that has involved some level of work or at least attention. I don't know how much they're involved beyond voting yay or nay. What we do know is that they've certainly not "rocked the boat" at BRI over the years, such that, when apparently one if the first if not the very first times Jonah and Justyn voted *against* Mike on any issue (BRI signing off on the "Love & Mercy" score/soundtrack), Mike made a bit stink about it in interviews.

But I really don't understand why there's ZERO out there from Carl's estate. They did a few charity events years ago, they did that "Best of" Carl CD that had solo and BB tracks on it a zillion years ago (You know how long ago that was? Brad Elliott wrote the liner notes.), but was a super short-run expensive item. I think they signed off on a super limited run Carl Rickenbacker as well, but I think even that was something in the works while Carl was still alive.

I'd argue there should be a Carl website and social media hubs, and they should be putting out albums of his demos, photo books, merch, etc, etc. But even if they didn't want to go that route, why not put out some Carl shirts and posters and raise more money for charity?

There is stuff the estate has, and/or could pursue, that would be worth releasing. Not too long ago a bit of a documentary surfaced on that creepy cult leader guy that headed that organization Carl was part of. I have no interest in watching that guy or organizaton, but plopped in the middle of that, excerpted on YouTube, is some great footage of Carl, including him singing a solo acoustic "I Wish For You" if I recall correctly.

That was such a tease. Put the entire performance out there!
This is why I often refer to Carl as the forgotten Beach Boy. The others all have someone keeping their image/memory/whatever out there.

[HeyJude]

Both the Carl and Dennis estates should have websites and social media going and tied into the other individual BBs and group accounts. The same way Lennon and Harrison social media is tied into Paul and Ringo and the Beatles.

There isn’t ANYBODY tied to either of those families/estates that has the time to curate that sort of thing?

The whole thing becomes self-fulfilling if you don’t tend to it at all. Is there a huge market for Carl Wilson t-shirts and posters and mugs? I don’t know, probably not right now. Even Beach Boys merch outside of stuff sold at gigs doesn’t seem to have a ton of traction.

But if they had a presence out there, and were networked into things that are VERY Carl/Dennis-centric like the “Feel Flows” and “Sail On Sailor” sets, they’d get more attention/followers/eyes, and people could then seek out those Carl and Dennis pages/sites and have another direction to go.

Oh, you like Carl’s stuff? Here’s a whole album of his demos you’ve never heard.

Dennis stuff is a bit more difficult on the music side; I don’t know that the “estate” of Dennis as such really holds a lot of tapes that aren’t already owned by either BRI or Caribou/Guercio.

But again, photo books, books of essays, etc, etc.

Carl and Dennis stuff also wouldn’t necessarily have to completely sidestep BRI material. I would imagine if the Carl estate said “Hey, we’re doing a Carl archival set and we’d like to include some BBs/BRI stuff”, they could probably get some co-operation.

I helped run a band’s internet deal back in the early 2000s; they were clueless about the internet and never helped. We were running their website and message boards, etc. nearly as if the band was all dead and were trying to make of it what we could. That’s how little they helped and how little material (whether photos, videos, music, etc.)  they were offering us to help THEM promote themselves. We eventually just started digging through their stuff and finding audio and video ourselves. Anyway, the point is, we had no budget, no help, and obviously not the level of awareness that any Beach Boy would have (in our case the lead singer was a TV/film actor of mid-level fame; that was our one hook), and yet we put a larger presence out there back then than Carl or Dennis have right now.

I’m sure, if you asked the families/estates, they would probably say they consider Beach Boys projects/merch, etc. to serve the same purpose for Carl and Dennis, but it’s just not the same.

It would be difficult to do worse than nothing for a couple decades and then that “This Is Elvis” track.

Dennis got a big push years ago with the excellent Stebbins bio and then the POB deluxe reissue. And then…..nothing. One “Bambu” RSD vinyl release a million years after the fact. 

[Toursiveu]

In 2010, a film about the last years of Dennis' life was announced to be in the works. It was called The Drummer and shooting was to begin in 2012. Aaron Eckhart was cast as Dennis, Vera Farmiga as Christine McVie and Chloë Grace Moretz as Shawn Marie Love. (Good casting, if you ask me...)
But later, Aaron Eckhart left the project, and the director / screenwriter / producer of the film, Randall Miller, went to jail due to criminal negligence after a woman died in an accident on a film he was shooting (Midnight Rider : The Gregg Allman Story). After that, The Drummer was never made, never heard of again.

I don't particularly like all those biopics (Bohemian Rhapsody and Back to Black are just awful), but The Drummer had potential and would have introduced Dennis to a whole new generation.

What I'd like to see, at least, is a good documentary about Carl's life. That would be a start. Carl's estate is sitting on a gold mine and they don't do anything with it. Carl should be considered one of the greatest singers of his (or any) generation, but I get the feeling that he's a little bit forgotten these days. It's not only sad, it's really unfair.  

[Lonely Summer]

In 2010, a film about the last years of Dennis' life was announced to be in the works. It was called The Drummer and shooting was to begin in 2012. Aaron Eckhart was cast as Dennis, Vera Farmiga as Christine McVie and Chloë Grace Moretz as Shawn Marie Love. (Good casting, if you ask me...)
But later, Aaron Eckhart left the project, and the director / screenwriter / producer of the film, Randall Miller, went to jail due to criminal negligence after a woman died in an accident on a film he was shooting (Midnight Rider : The Gregg Allman Story). After that, The Drummer was never made, never heard of again.

I don't particularly like all those biopics (Bohemian Rhapsody and Back to Black are just awful), but The Drummer had potential and would have introduced Dennis to a whole new generation.

What I'd like to see, at least, is a good documentary about Carl's life. That would be a start. Carl's estate is sitting on a gold mine and they don't do anything with it. Carl should be considered one of the greatest singers of his (or any) generation, but I get the feeling that he's a little bit forgotten these days. It's not only sad, it's really unfair.  

It is unfair, but I'm sure people will say "Carl was such a private person, he wouldn't want all his dirty laundry out in the open". But doing a good documentary doesn't have involve digging into the dirt. And if they were to talk about his slide into substance abuse circa 1977/78, they can also point out that he cleaned up after the tour Down Under. They can discuss his battle with the draft board as testimony to Carl being a man of principle.