'My Love Lives On' is a song featuring a Dennis lead vocal that dates from the Caribou sessions....I think the final part of it was done in 1977, but it was originally started in 1974 

That was going to be my next question for those in the know. That is, do we know for sure if Denny's lead vocal indeed dates from August of '74, or rather, if from the work that was done during the Bambu sessions in '77?

If it's truly a '74 vocal...we're taking about more "missing link' type of stuff in terms of the timeline of Denny's voice. Very exciting stuff!

[studio album track]

This is my 5th legal box set, not to mention all of the boot box sets. I think this is well balanced for group effort, and frankly, I cannot say that I would change much here. I have seen lots of excitement in reviewing this thread, and some disappointment. Quite honestly, given the politics surrounding The Beach Boys, I think Alan and Mark have done a great job of balancing everything out. The early years are mostly Brian, as they should be, but the rest of the group is well represented after Smile. I think Dennis and Carl are well represented, keeping in mind that almost every live track is from the years Carl led the road band. For those who want to hear obscure tracks (e.g. My Solution, We Got Love, Problem Child, etc.) they are ALL on Ebay. You just have to look. This is a career spanning package, and I feel great that everyone in the group stepped up and made sure Carl and Dennis are represented too.  Congratulations to the team that assembled this box.

I agree with you in principal, Peter, but the completist and historian in me still has to single out the absence of We Got Love as a fairly unique situation, a missed opportunity and a rare mistake with its not being included on the set. Namely, and going from memory, it's still the only released Beach Boys non-promo, non-single or EP, non-compilation or soundtrack, studio album track -- albeit released briefly and in small quantities -- that I can think of that's never been *officially* released on commercial/retail CD [That is, obviously discounting stuff like Happy Endings, etc.]. In a nutshell, not just an obscure track, but one that's technically part of the band's officially released album catalog -- even if only for a few hundred lucky souls in Germany.

And, while I have plenty of bootleg versions lifted from that noted German vinyl (with copious amounts of nasty digital noise reduction in a case or two...some better than others), or taken from someone's own reference cassette copy, I sure would've loved to have heard it directly from the master tape in pristine quality. This set would've seemed like a no-brainer, particularly in terms of representing Blondie and Ricky in some sort of "rarity capacity" (though I do like Hard Times, too). On the other hand, with the exception of no Carry Me Home, this is really my only major disappointment for the set. The compilers really did seem to listen to the hardcore fans, thus, consider me 98% satisfied!


Oh well...maybe the next compilation...lol.



PS - One other live track I would've liked to have seen officially released: One of those two Michigan State '66 recordings of Denny doing You've Got To Hide Your Love Away -- perhaps with that "on the ten yard line" bit erased via a fresh multitrack mixdown or a fly-in from another part of the song. Such a nice, heartfelt performance that fans often single out as being one of the "good ones."

So is it too soon to have Phil Cohen un-banned yet?

My guess is that he'll still find something to bitch about. Say that Capitols' "wall of secrecy has "driven" fans to in-fighting over the track line-up, etc, etc. You know, the usual boring routine. Of course, never admitting that he was 100% wrong (as usual), while simply changing course.

What's the name of the supposedly mind-blowing Dennis Wilson song that was found recently?

 'My Love Lives On'?

Don't see that it can be anything else. To my count we have 3 previously unreleased Dennis songs on the set, Mona Kana, WIBNTLA and My Love Lives On. We all know Mona Kana has been booted and that WIBNTLA has never been booted but I know nothing about My Love Lives On.

I googled it and nothing, nada, except today's news.

My Love lives On is a 1977, Bambu-era track.  

So is it this newly discovered Dennis track? Do you  have any more info?  
Somebody had PMd me the year of the track a month ago but had no more info.

Assuming it's the same recording, I wouldn't call it newly discovered, in that the tape has always known to exist, and we have documentation for it in terms of its session date (i.e. Oct. 1977). Again, that's assuming it's the same version.

What's the name of the supposedly mind-blowing Dennis Wilson song that was found recently?

 'My Love Lives On'?

Don't see that it can be anything else. To my count we have 3 previously unreleased Dennis songs on the set, Mona Kana, WIBNTLA and My Love Lives On. We all know Mona Kana has been booted and that WIBNTLA has never been booted but I know nothing about My Love Lives On.

I googled it and nothing, nada, except today's news.

My Love lives On is a 1977, Bambu-era track.  

Also, Dear Capitol... please make the mastering nice. Not overly bright, hard or hyped. 

[We Got Love]

More importantly, I would call leaving off "We Got Love" both a major omission and a serious mistake. It's pretty much now the only officially-released, major BB studio track I can think of (however sparse that release was), offhand, that has never seen digital light.

I might understand what you mean here, but you can find the studio version of We Got Love on CD. I have a copy.

Or do you mean it has not been "restored" digitally?

Right. I have "that" version (actually several versions) too. I mean an officially released digital version.

[We Got Love]

Keeping the occasional "personal fave" omissions in mind, overall, I'm very, very pleased with this track lineup. As someone else noted, I truly think that this one tops the '93 box in terms of content (the official debut of the Smile material on the '93 box aside), which is no easy task considering how much the vaults have been mined already. That speaks volumes for both the compilers and the fact that the band was a recording machine in its time! Am I really going to finally get to hear WIBNTLA in less than 3 months, after waiting for it and dreaming about it for over a decade? Please pinch me now! Body...please don't betray me before then!

Random thoughts: Great to have the 2011, vinyl-only stereo Smile tracks in official digital form; "We're Together Again" in an official stereo mix -- cool!; An official CD release of "Sound Of Free".....finally!!!!; "Soul Searchin" and "You're Still A Mystery"...finally can throw out my crappy sounding  "unofficial" versions!; Vintage live versions of "Little Bird" and "It's About Time" in good quality? Pinch me again!; "Vegetables" and "Wonderful" from the "Unplugged" Tour (Paramount?) in an official capacity -- a nice representation; The Carnegie version of "Only With You"...the best!; An official release of "Country Air" in stereo -- very nice;"Where Is She"..."Barnyard Blues"..."California Feelin".....double pinch me!

In terms of major omissions, I am a bit disappointed that "Carry Me Home" didn't make the cut, but I sorta get it (no comment). More importantly, I would call leaving off "We Got Love" both a major omission and a serious mistake. It's pretty much now the only officially-released, major BB studio track I can think of (however sparse that release was), offhand, that has never seen digital light. I'm holding out hope that the powers-that-be can find *some* place for it at the last minute (e.g. a hidden track, a CD single?). We really need that one in good quality. Also...strange that they left off the end suite from TWGMTR. Artistically....very strange. Something political? A sore subject? I had always envisioned "Summer's Gone" closing off the set, chronologically (and maybe leading into to a hidden track of that Rolling Stone version of "Surfer Girl").


All-in-all: Very pleased. Thank you, Capitol!

[The Little Girl I Once Knew]

Add Chiba, RFH, and Wembley and you have a good package.

The Berkeley and Socal shows were damn good too.

I'll raise you one and also say *some* of the mixes from the respective Grand Prairie, NPR tracks as well. That is, specifically and for me personally, "The Little Girl I Once Knew." In the case of that one, I much prefer the integration of the vocals -- namely Jeff's falsetto -- over how it was mixed on the CD. Same performance. Two different mixes. Quite a difference.

On a related note, if anyone is interested, or has anything to add where I still have question marks, here's a breakdown of that NPR airing in terms of  actual sources. I did a brief run-through last night. If anyone sees any mistakes, feel free to comment as well:


NPR - In Concert:

Do It Again - Alternate mix of "DIA 2012" studio (digitally time-compressed/tempo sped-up + assorted "live" sounds and crowd noise mixed in [spoken "yeahs" "one more time," etc.]. Though, those spoken sounds don't appear to be from the actual live performance in Grand Prairie, TX.)
Catch A Wave - Artist Confidential
Don't Back Down - Grand Prairie, TX
Surfer Girl - Grand Prairie, TX
Surfin Safari - Artist Confidential
The Little Girl I Once Knew - Grand Prairie, TX
Isn't It Time - Alternate Studio Mix (w/ "sneaky" edit at end and solo vocal line to simulate a hard ending).
Little Deuce Coupe - Spoken intro is an edit from Grand Prairie, TX, Rest of song maybe a combination of Grand Prairie and Artist Confidential ? It was late, and I got tired of sync-ing and going back and forth between everything...lol. Anyone?
409 - Artist Confidential
Shut Down - Artist Confidential
I Get Around - Artist Confidential
Sail On, Sailor - ? (NOT Grand Prairie)
TWGMTR - Alternate Studio Mix (w/ hard ending)
California Girls - Grand Prairie, TX
Dance, Dance, Dance - Grand Prairie, TX
All Summer Long - Grand Prairie, TX
Help Me, Rhonda - Grand Prairie, TX
Rock 'N' Roll Music - Grand Prairie, TX
Do You Wanna Dance - Grand Prairie, TX
Barbara Ann - Grand Prairie, TX
Surfin USA - ?  (NOT Grand Prairie)
Good Vibrations - Artist Confidential

BPG have no connection with the box set.

Could Betty still be "attached" to Alan if he was simply working independently/freelance? As an assistant possibly? I mean, she did claim to hear the track in question. Or, is she involved with Mike in some other professional capacity?

Betty has lots of connections in the Beach Boys world, with lots of people. It's entirely possible that she heard it through a connection with Boyd, but equally possible she heard it any of half a dozen other ways.

Okay, thanks. I'm just trying to surmise if all this means that it's most likely an archival MIC track....vs. something else altogether (e.g. a ML solo track).

BPG have no connection with the box set.

Could Betty still be "attached" to Alan if he was simply working independently/freelance? As an assistant possibly? I mean, she did claim to hear the track in question. Or, is she involved with Mike in some other professional capacity?

All this assuming Mike was in the studio to lay down some vocals... do we have a shot of him in the booth ? Nope, just one standing behind Scott T. who is playing... something.

That's very true. Scott simply mentioned he was "overdubbing on a Mike Love track" and that he "had a feeling we would hear it." For all we know, Mike could've just been keeping tabs or acting as "overlord" for the session.

Also, perhaps more importantly, and in case anyone missed it in the comments section, a one "Betty Collignon," who is listed as an "Archivist/Administrative Asst. at Boyd Production Group" on her Linkedin page, said  the track "sounded great." So, at the very least, I'm indeed putting my money on something for MIC.    


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151703675622774

Yeah, I have it.

  I thought I was the Only one

Pffff...child's play. I have the  actual set already!

OK, I'm a doofus...I just watched last night's rebroadcast, and sure enough they did "Isn't It Time".  Not sure how I missed that!  But no "TWGMTR".

No problem at all - thanks for the update!  At the very least, we can rest assure that we saw the same show edit.

Wow, they did "Do It Again" on Later?  How many songs did they actually play there?  All that were on last night's rebroadcast were the opening "Surfin' USA", "Barbara Ann", and "Heroes and Villains".  Unless I missed something, but I doubt it.  I have it recorded, and intend to check back.

"Do It Again" was performed on the original Tuesday, live version of the BBC show. It wasn't shown on the extended taped version that ran on the following Friday.

Going back in the thread, it appears it was:

9/25/2012 - 30 min. live version:

Do It Again
Barbara Ann
TWGMTR

9/28/2012 - 60 min. extended (taped) version:

Isn't It Time
Barbara Ann (alternate version IIRC??)
TWGMTR (alternate version)
Heroes and Villains


EDIT: And that abbreviated, opening instrumental version of Surfin' USA, as well, of course.  

OK, so I just saw the BBs episode on Palladia for the first time.  Majorly bummed, as it appears they sliced 15 out of the show, including the two "new" songs, and any interview they may have done...does this usually happen with Palladia rebroadcasts, or only the Boys'?

The syndicated US Palladia rebroadcasts of the extended, taped version (and, IIRC, the now defunct US airings on Ovation and Fuse) are all slotted in a one-hour block, *including* commercials. So, yes, they're cut for every episode, as I believe the BBC runs that original 60 minute, extended version pretty much straight through. Right, UK'ers?

But, here's the weird part: I caught one of the early Palladia airings, and they showed Isn't It Time, Barbara Ann (w/ short interview) and Heroes and Villains! Also, that abbreviated, instrumental-only version of Surfin' USA that opened the show. Thus, are you saying that they re-cut that Palladia version? Very strange if so!

Yes, no Isn't It Time this time.  Jools talked to the guys but I don't know if I'd call it an interview...Mike answered one question, and I think that was it.

Wow, that's bizarre. Did they sub-in one of the other songs from the original live show in its place (e.g. Do It Again)?

I guess I'll have to look out for future re-airings, as I always ignored them after that early one I caught.

OK, so I just saw the BBs episode on Palladia for the first time.  Majorly bummed, as it appears they sliced 15 out of the show, including the two "new" songs, and any interview they may have done...does this usually happen with Palladia rebroadcasts, or only the Boys'?

The syndicated US Palladia rebroadcasts of the extended, taped version (and, IIRC, the now defunct US airings on Ovation and Fuse) are all slotted in a one-hour block, *including* commercials. So, yes, they're cut for every episode, as I believe the BBC runs that original 60 minute, extended version pretty much straight through. Right, UK'ers?

But, here's the weird part: I caught one of the early Palladia airings, and they showed Isn't It Time, Barbara Ann (w/ short interview) and Heroes and Villains! Also, that abbreviated, instrumental-only version of Surfin' USA that opened the show. Thus, are you saying that they re-cut that Palladia version? Very strange if so!

I have a problem with the need to "get" certain music in order to like it.  I realize that an appreciation for music increases the more you get it (i.e., the more you understand the interlacing of context, style, personality, circumstance, etc.), but I take issue when somebody tells me that I don't like something because I don't get it.  I get the Dennis stuff, at least to an extent.  And I don't like most of it.  

Someone was just saying this to me about Pet Sounds and Smile. They said it all sounds the same, they get it, but they don't like it. I guess its possible to not like something that is great...but it feels so bad to hear about it.

That's can often be a heartbreaking thing for me to hear, as well, when I hold a recording in high reverence.

For me, music is the most visceral and emotional aural experience I can think of: A harmony or chord progression; The way a singer phrases/turns a note or the unique *sound* of their voice; The organic way the instruments all mesh together and the related production values; The way the lyrics *compliment* the melody and mood, trumping any literal meaning; An unexpected moment. In summation, the parts over any sum. Yes, having an understanding of the artist's mindset and the technical/structural aspects of the recording can certainly enhance that experience, but it's never been the primary or driving force for me in terms of enjoyment. When I hear so much detail, beauty and micro-diversity in something, only to hear someone say "it all sounds the same," I can't help but admit that it stings a bit. Unfortunately, that's the Catch-22: Music is also one of the most personal experiences I can think of.

I guess that's why I've always enjoyed the Beach Boys best music (e.g. Pet Sounds). It's that tapestry of sounds and how it can make the hair on the back of by neck stand up at times. For me, there's never been anything I've needed to "get" as far as that goes. It's not, or is only rarely an intellectual experience for me [and that's NOT saying that music, both in structure and execution, can't be an intellectual process]. The music just flows over me.

Great news.

So Mike working in the same studio...that's for something else?...or is it a surprise appearance on Brian's solo album?

Hi Justin,

I think the general consensus here has been that it's most likely Mike working on an archival, MIC track. Particularly with Alan Boyd in that photo as well.

I think "Radio's" still quite solid after a year. Production-wise, I believe it will also hold up a lot longer than something like "Imagination," -- that one with its glassy, triple-tracked wall-of-Brian vocals. I was as swept away as anyone at the time for the mania of that release -- "the first all-new, Brian Wilson record to be released in over a decade" -- and find it virtually unlistenable today. Now, THAT one is MOR and bland in the worst kind of way. Conversely, I honestly don't think I'll feel that way about TWGMTR in 15 years because the strengths of the record (e.g. the "suite" at the end, the vocal production) are very strong, and they dwarf whatever MOR leanings Joe Thomas tends to have. As far as the autotune goes, it's simply this generation's studio tool-du jour. Not organic...but just the way it is. Perhaps, it's a bit overused and obvious in places, but short of spending 3 months in the studio to get everything as good as possible, I think it's a satisfactory solution to hear Brian in the best light vs. what might've been (and yes, I'm aware that Al's voice is doused in it as well on FTTBA).


As far as the songs themselves, looking at my initial track rankings, I still think it's pretty much the same order today. Though, I honestly don't hate the "fun-in-the-sun, name-checking, cliche-ridden" songs as much as I did at first. As a friend of mine stated...they're dopey...but they're infectiously fun, catchy and dopey. Not flat-out annoying and irritating. And while I would obviously prefer more of the "serious stuff," again, I don't flat-out hate them these days.


On the other hand, I think the record still had it faults. It really didn't feel like a group Beach Boys album in the traditional sense, where *everyone* usually brought their (hopefully) best stuff to the table and had more input. It felt rushed. But I guess that was then, this is now. Carl and Dennis are both dead. The rest of the guys are 70-years-old. Musical politics. Etc, etc. Vocally-speaking, I find it an absolute crime that that group's strongest vocalist, Al, the one whose sound could still bring back memories of days gone by, was almost an afterthought. I still shudder when I recall reading things like that he was initially only supposed to sing a tiny bit of FTTBA. Always the second-class citizen I guess and that "politics" thing again. I know it was necessary to showcase Brian, but did he really need to sing lead on the majority of the album's tracks? At the very least, if they truly wanted a hit "radio" single, it might've been a better idea to let Al take the initial lead on "Isn't It Time"...and go from there (I actually could hear *Brian* singing the "all of the things we used/want to do" bit instead).


All-in-all...still a solid "B" for me. I still listen to it regularly. And those last 3 songs (really more like the last 4 songs for me)...whoa....more than I ever expected or could've asked for. FTTBA is a flat-out Beach Boys classic, IMHO.

[Anyone with me here? Anyone?]

Oh man Disney Boy.... you're making this so difficult. All This is That is absolutely phenomenal. Unfortunately it's sandwiched by dreadful shoot-me-in-the-face muck.   hahaha - but seriously if someone introduced me to the Beach Boys with Make It Good and Cuddle Up, I would disown them if they were my child, defriend them if a friend, quit my job if they were my boss, fire them if they were my employee, lose my faith if they were my priest, and get divorced if my wife. Anyone with me here? Anyone??

Well, since you asked...

I like "Cuddle Up" quite a bit. But, I'll agree with you on "Make It Good." I'm as big a Dennis fan as anyone, but for me, "Make It Good" embodies all the worst, most overwrought and ponderous tendencies x 10 that Dennis could ever be accused of. He was rarely off-mark in the channeling of his emotions and instincts, yet, he was with this one.

But...that's just me.

I'm just going to weigh in and say, categorically and definitively that NO vocals were pre-recorded and/or flown in during any of the C50 live shows.

Thank you. That's an important thing to hear because it clarifies that a) any and all sweetening for the new live album was simply and expectedly done in post-production and b) for stuff like the Japanese broadcast of the Chiba show, there was some post-production sweetening done to that as well (e.g. "Isn't It Time"). Ditto for the work that was done on the Sirius and NPR broadcasts (which we pretty much already knew). So...thanks again, Scott.

(Incidentally, I note you're using www.lukpac.org - are you anything to do with that fantastic Zappa Vinyl Vs CDs page?  That's one of my favourite things on the entire internet.)

That's actually the work of a couple of other folks.  LP's just a good friend who lets me leech some of his server space.

[Brian's vocal is identical to the Chiba tape.]

SAIL ON SAILOR is from Chiba. It's slowed down about 5% without changing the pitch and like Heroes and Villains, the rate of slowdown changes in each section of the song.  Brian's vocal is identical to the Chiba tape.  

I think it might be even more complicated than that, in terms of how the vocal may have been stitched together. Here's a few examples below where I have to question just how identical it actually is, and I'm honestly interested in what anyone else might make of this...because I don't know what the hell to make of it...lol.

For the non-CD, "Chiba recording" Brian says his first "Sail On Sailor" on the *upbeat* of the first note in the measure (approx. at the 26 second mark of the Chiba mp3 below), whereas on the new CD he says it on the *downbeat* of the first note in the measure. That is, it's phrased differently on the latter. Thus, they would've had to digitally re-align them to make them match, and I'm still not sure that would make them the same. Also, for the Chiba performance, he says the correct "often frightened, unenlightened," whereas on the new CD it's closer to an "often frightened, uninvited (or something blurry along those lines)." The vocal on the non-CD "Chiba recording" is doubled as well, so unless that's just a manifestation of one of the doubled vocals, that really shouldn't affect the above. Also, Brian's last word (i.e. "sail") of the "alone but I sail" line clearly dips in pitch on the non-CD recording (whereas it's "straight" on the CD...and not just in some kind of autotune way). There's a few other examples as well that seem to raise some flags.

Now, I'll admit I haven't gone through every bit of the entire song to see if there's any sections that might indeed be direct from Chiba, but at least with the above, I think there's a few question marks. No? Am I nuts...lol?



Any other thoughts welcome, of course.


Sail On Sailor - The 50th Anniversary Tour CD:

http://www.lukpac.org/~dave/Sail%20On%20Sailor%20-%2050th%20Anniversary%20Tour%20CD.mp3



Sail On Sailor - Chiba, Japan:

http://www.lukpac.org/~dave/Sail%20On%20Sailor%20-%20Chiba,%20Japan.mp3

 The other bit of good news is that it appears that the streaming soundboard recording of the Chiba performance available on the internet is actually from Chiba with minimal if any overdubs ... but considerable electronic tempo changes.

Just curious, but do you happen to have an audience recording of "Isn't It Time" from Chiba as well? The a capella vocal bit at the beginning of the "soundboard" recording is clearly lifted directly from the studio single version. So, unless they sampled/lip-synced that bit live (looking at an audience show from Singapore, 6 days later, they didn't there), that's one bit of studio audio that was laid in afterward. Al's vocal is also manually double-tracked (w/ studio vocal?) in most places to boot -- with a "nice" clash at 2:06.  

"Isn't It Time" - Chiba, Japan:

http://www.lukpac.org/~dave/Isn%27t%20It%20Time%20-%20Chiba,%20Japan.mp3