Sept 2, 1962-By this time, the BBs were obtaining many engagements for personal appearances, though they were limited by the fact that 3 members were still attending school. On this day they played at Milton Berle’s daughter’s birthday party and then at Pandora’s Box on the Sunset Strip. Two days later Brian and Gary Usher held a session to record The Revolution and Number One for Rachel and the Revolvers and Humpty Dumpty for Bob and Sheri. On Sept 5 and 6 1962 the BBs recorded most of their first album.  On Sept 13 1962 Brian recorded Cindy Oh Cindy and The Surfer Moon (For Bob and Sheri). On Sept 14 1962 the BBs played at the Howdy Hop at Hawthorne HS and later at the Surfers Ball in Long Beach.

Sept 1 and 2 1963-The BBs were busy in the studio recording most of their album Little Deuce Coupe.  Brian also worked on After the Game, which ended up as the B-side to the Survivors single. Sept 4 1963-The BBs were in Denver and made a personal appearance at Woolworth's in the Cherry Creek Shopping Center and at the Moonlight Ballroom. Two days later they played a Back-to-School Dance at the Trocadero Ballroom, also in Denver with the Castells, the Astronauts and Bobby Vinton. On Sept 7 1963 they made the first of many appearances at the Lagoon near Salt Lake City, where Mike and Brian wrote Fun, Fun, Fun. Two days later they were back in California to play at Helix HS Stadium in San Diego. On Sept 11, 1963 they played the Station Theatre at China Lake CA with the Cherry Creek Singers. This show took place at a Navy base but was open to the public. Sept 14 1963-the BBs made their second app in Sacramento-with Al in the lineup in place of Brian.  Unfortunately, a thief stole two of the BBs’ guitars after the gig.

Sept 2-5 1964-The BBs headed to the east coast to play their first shows in Buffalo and Syracuse, NY.  The Buffalo News reviewer Nell Lawson wrote of the Sept 2 show: “They rate first class as showmen…Their own compositions took up half of the program including ‘Fun, Fun, Fun,’ ‘Little Old Lady,’ ‘Little Deuce Coupe’ (about an automobile) and ‘Runaway.’  They invited and got roaring audience participation for ‘Let’s go Tripping’ (and) scared the girls into near hysteria with ‘The Monster Mash.’  The coup de grace was a fast beat, ‘Wanderin’ (The Wanderer). What would Sigmund Freud have made of it all?” On September 4 they returned to Hull, MA to play the Surf Ballroom. Dennis recalled, “About 1000 girls waited at the stage door when we came out and wrecked the taxi to get at us.” The BBs played in Hartford, CT the next night. The BBs then headed home for more recording. On Sept 9 1964 they recorded an early version of I’m So Young. On Sept 11 and 12 1964 the BBs were back at The Lagoon near Salt Lake City and then played the Boise HS Auditorium in Idaho on Sept 13, 1964.

Sept 1-5, 1965: The BBs, now with Bruce in place of Brian, were on a tour of the east coast. On Sept 1 they played a big show at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh, PA with Peter and Gordon, Tom Jones, Brian Hyland, and the Shirelles. The next day they played in Rochester, NY with Dickey Lee, Bobby Comstock and the Counts and Sonny and Cher (riding high with “It Ain’t Me Babe).  The teenage pandemonium was beginning to become tiresome. Al commented backstage, “All the noise is beginning to bug us. None of us can hear the others out there. The kids should listen more!” Shows followed in Utica, Ottawa and Toronto.  Dennis was the most popular and his performance of “Do You Wanna Dance” at these shows elicited screams and shouts.

Sept 8 1965-The BBs were back in the studio to work on the stopgap Party LP: They recorded versions of Hully Gully, Ruby Baby, Satisfaction, Tell Me Why, I Should Have Known Better, and You’ve Got to Hide Your Love Away, amongst others. However, they had little time to work on the LP, as they then had to head off to Salt Lake City for more appearances at the Lagoon on Sept 10 and 11, 1965.  When the BBs returned home after these gigs, Billy Hinsche was there to greet them and introduced Carl to his sister Annie, who would marry the guitarist in 1966.  On Sept 14 1965-the BBs were back at work on the Party LP-and worked on versions of Tell Me Why, I Should Have Known Better, Mountain of Love, You’ve Got to Hide Your Love Away, Ticket to Ride, Devoted to You, and Alley Oop, amongst others.

Sept 1 1966-Brian and the BBs remained hard at work finishing the Good Vibration single.  The ill-fated Smile was also underway and a version of He Gives Speeches was recorded.  A week later Brian was at work on Holidays.  On Sept 9 and 10 the BBs were again at the Lagoon near Salt Lake City.  When they returned home, they were back in the studio to record vocals for Good Vibrations on Sept 12, 1966.  Sept 11 1967: The BBs were at Wally Heider’s studio to basically re-record the August Hawaii concert in the studio: The BBs worked on versions of The Letter, God Only Knows, Sloop John B, Help Me Rhonda, Good Vibrations, Surfer Girl, California Girls, You’re So Good To Me, Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring and Heroes and Villains but ultimately abandoned this project.

Sept 3 and 6 1968-Brian worked on a remake of the ultimately unreleased ‘We’re Together Again’.  On Sept 7, 1968 the BBs were back at the Lagoon with the Box Tops.  Meanwhile on Sept 9 and 11, 1968 more sessions were held for We’re Together Again
On the latter date work was also done on the track of the infamous Never Learn Not to Love.  Sept 5 1969-Brian worked on Soulful Ol’ Man Sunshine.  The BBs were probably not present, as they played the Lagoon again (!) on Sept 5 and 6 with Paul Revere and the Raiders. Unfortunately, no photograph of any of the BBs many appearances at the Lagoon has ever turned up anywhere! I am still hoping to find some. The next day they played the Bronco Stadium in Boise, Idaho with the Raiders (who were hometown heroes in Boise).  This was in the midst of the Manson madness and Dennis was so worry about his son Scott that he took him with him on this tour. 

Sept 12, 1970-The BBs made their last ever appearance at the Lagoon. Sept 14, 1971-Carl appeared in an LA court and was at last granted permission by a judge to perform alternate service in lieu of the military-thus finally ending his four years of legal problems –associated with his CO status.  Sept 1972-The BBs, now including Ricky and Blondie were on an east coast tour and played at the Wildwood Convention Hall in New Jersey on September 1, followed by shows in Ocean City, MD and at Pine Knob Musical Theater near Detroit/

Sept 1, 1973-The BBs performed at the Century Theater in Buffalo According to Joe Wilhelm of the Courier Express, the Beach Boys attracted a receptive audience that cheered oldies but “responded almost as equally to a hard driving rock delivery of ‘We Got Love’, which they perform for the first time on this tour; to several funky offerings; and to some movingly romantic folk blues interpretations…If you went there expecting a night of repetitious surfing harmony…you would have been disappointed. Instead, you would have found a talented outfit, up to date, but never out of tune.” The version of Darlin’ on the In Concert LP was taped this night. Shows followed at Massey Hall in Toronto and at Pine Knob on September 3, 1973. The versions of Sail on Sailor, Surfer Girl and the Trader used on the In Concert LP were taped at the latter show.

Sept 1, 1974-The BBs performed at Indiana University in Bloomington with Kansas and the Eagles.  Peter Kaufman of the Indiana Daily Student noted that the new songs “received a polite but token reception” but when the group played older numbers “the crowd was ecstatic: from ‘Sloop John B’ through ‘Surfer Girl’, ‘Help Me Rhonda’, ‘I Get Around’, ‘Fun, Fun, Fun’ and ‘Good Vibrations’ the crowd loved it all.  Then the encores ‘California Girls’, ‘Barbara Ann’ and “Surfing USA’ and the Beach Boys 75-minute set was over.  And if the vocals occasionally wandered and the harmony was a little ragged here and there, nobody seemed to mind.  It was too exhilarating to mind.” The BBs then played two nights at Pine Knob before heading to New York City to relax for a few days.  On Sept 8 1974 they opened for CSNY at their tour ending show at Roosevelt Raceway in Westbury NY. Joni Mitchell and Jesse Colin Young were also on the bill. 

This was apparently Ricky Fataar’s last appearance as a Beach Boy.  He left to play in Joe Walsh’s band, possibly under acrimonious circumstances.  On Facebook, his band mate Carli Munoz alleged that there was some racism displayed by unnamed people in the band’s organization towards Ricky and Ricky’s friend and fellow drummer Kevin Michaels then chimed in to say that he was present in the studio when Ricky quit over this treatment (probably at Caribou). I can neither confirm nor deny this account and Ricky has generally not commented much on his time in the BBs.  By this time, Dennis’s hand was recovered and he took over the kit again in Nov 1974 with, of course, help from Bobby Figueroa and others.

Sept 1 1975-The BBs played the Nassau Coliseum with Ambrosia. The next night they played a big show at the State Fairgrounds in Syracuse with the Doobie Brothers, America, Jefferson Starship, New Riders of the Purple Sage and the Stanley Brown Group.  Bad weather turned the fairgrounds into a puddle of mud and delays led to the group not taking the stage till 11:30 PM.  The Syracuse Post Standard noted, “By that time, many concertgoers had given in to the increasing cold and wind and gone home.  But for those who remained, the Beach Boys played the best of the surfing music they’ve made so popular over the past several years, including ‘Sloop John B’ and ‘Help Me Rhonda.’” Sept 12, 1975-with the tour over, Mike chose to play a few solo shows on behalf of the Freedom Train (which was tied in with the U.S. bicentennial celebrations that were beginning) including this one in Sioux City, Iowa.

Sept 1, 1976-The BBs returned to the Nassau Coliseum. They were promoting 15 Big Ones and the Daily News reported, “Selections culled from the Beach Boys latest album...a compilation of surfed up old R&R hits like Palisades Park were politely received but paled next to the hysteria brought on by Wouldn’t It Be Nice.” They then played in Buffalo with the Cate Brothers and Jeff Beck with Jan Hammer. On Sept 3 and 4 they were in Toronto Civic Centre, followed by shows in Ottawa, and Montreal.  This was the group’s last appearance until late November.  Ron Altbach informed me: “Mike got hepatitis when the Beach Boys were in Montreal.  I saw him completely yellow and freaked out.”  During this tour Mike and Al had taped an appearance on the syndicated Mike Douglas Show where they discussed TM and performed Everyone’s in Love with You and TM Song. It aired while they were in Canada

Sept 1, 1977-The BBs, including Brian, performed a highly publicized show in Central Park.  The set consisted of: “California Girls”, “Darlin”, “Sloop John B”, “Little Deuce Coupe”, “In My Room”, “Sail On Sailor”, “California”, “Airplane”, “Back Home”, “Surfer Girl”, “Lady Lynda”, “Catch a Wave”, “Be True To Your School”, “Honkin’ Down the Highway”, “It’s OK”, “Love is a Woman”, “Roller Skating Child”, “Everyone’s In Love With You”, “Feel Flows”, “Heroes and Villains”, “Help Me Rhonda”, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice”, “I Get Around”, “Good Vibrations”, “Surfin’ USA” and “Fun, Fun, Fun.”  As most fans are aware, there was a lot of tension in the band at this time. Following this concert, the band flew to Newark to catch a connecting flight to LA.  The stopover proved to be a PR-nightmare, as the group had a horrific argument on the tarmac in full view of a Rolling Stone reporter.  All their dirty laundry was thrown into public scrutiny.  They nearly broke up for good.  It took over a month to patch things up enough that they could play together and the bad feelings were evident to even casual observers on the autumn dates.

Sept 1978-The BBs were finishing a short tour with the reunited Jan and Dean. They played in Mobile on Sept 1 and then at the Omni in Atlanta the next night, where Bruce appeared on stage with the group for the first time since 1973.  He’d been working with them at Criteria and remained for the rest of the dates.  He told David Leaf that it was interesting, “because the only other time we’d ever officially played together, in terms of a set, all six of us, was the Whiskey (in 1970).  The shows were good, a little sloppy, which is just a matter of rehearsing.  A lot of times when you break for a few days it gets sloppy, but that’s something every band goes through,” The tour with J&D was fun but dark clouds were gathering. The Lakeland-show on Sept 3 showed that Dennis was becoming unglued more and more.  According to the Lakeland Ledger, “the drummer disappeared halfway through the set, cutting the band’s drum power in half, and reappeared to stagger around the stage, dance on the piano and disassemble the microphones.”
The tour ended with gigs in Savannah and Jacksonville.

Sept 1 1979-The BBs played in Columbia, MD and at Aqueduct Racetrack with Flo and Eddie, followed by a tour ending show in Toronto with Long John Baldry on Sept 3.  When they got back to California, Brian decided to join Jan and Dean during one of their shows at Disneyland. He sang and played bass on California Girls and Barbara Ann. A reviewer said he was the most relaxed he'd seen him in years, which is interesting as Brian was starting to again seriously decline at this time.  Sept 1980-Carl was at work on his first solo album at Caribou during this time.

Sept 1 1981-The BB played in Saratoga Springs, NY. Carl was not in the band at this time but a chain-smoking Brian was there. By this point, Dennis was coming apart at the seams and, while he was there, he was replaced by Bobby Figueroa midway through the show.  The band was not at its’ best and the reviewer at the Syracuse show the next night noted that they put on a sloppy, indifferent performance. He criticized the audience for not minding.  He asked, "Is it important that the band's musical medley about automobiles...came to an abrupt halt when lead singer Mike Love apparently forgot the simple chorus to '409'?  Or that Brian Wilson hacked out some raspy coughs during several songs, including the dreamy introduction to the band's first encore, 'Good Vibrations'? … Probably not."  The next day, back in California, Dennis was arrested for public drunkenness.

Carl was busy opening for the Doobie Brothers in the Midwest at this time and then began another solo tour on Sept 5 1981 in Indiana.  Mike was promoting the Looking Back with Love album and appeared in Fort Lauderdale, Cocoa Beach and Sarasota, Florida, followed by gigs on Sept 11, 12 1981 at Knott’s Berry Farm and Disney World.

Sept 1 1982-With Carl back in the band, the BBs returned to Saratoga for a much stronger show.  They played in Toronto two days later.  Brian was still on the road but was extremely overweight and out of it.  According to Liam Lacey of the Globe and Mail, other than singing one verse of “Sloop John B” he spent the night “on the side of the stage, occasionally playing, more often just watching or banging his hands to the music, less a musical force than an exhibit.” Shows followed at the Canfield Fair, Allentown, Cleveland, Atlantic City and the Kansas State Fair in Hutchinson, KS on Sept 10.  The latter show was special for the Wilsons, since their father's family had lived there for generations.  Charles Wilson, brother of their grandfather Buddy, visited Brian and Carl backstage (Dennis was absent for most of these dates).  Shows followed on Sept 11 and 12 at the Nebraska State Fair and Red Rocks. The reviewer of the Nebraska show noted, “The band was terrific, the singing was strong. Carl Wilson is back better than ever.”

Sept 1, 1983- The BBs appeared at the Boston Commons minus Brian and Dennis. It has been alleged that Dennis was present the next night but the reviewer stated he was absent “recovering from minor surgery” so I am unsure of that claim.  Mike and Dean appeared on the Hyannis Village Green on September 3 and then the BBs played Allentown, PA, Holmdel, NJ, Harrisburg and then Williamsport, PA on Sept 6.  Sept 1984 was more of the same
With shows in Elmira, NY on Sept 1, Canfield, OH, Williamsburg, VA, Dubuque, Iowa, Hutchinson, KS, Fair, Lincoln, NE, Bismarck ND and the Puyallup Fair in Washington on Sept 10. The Lincoln show reviewer noted, Kent Warneke of the Omaha World-Herald reported, “Over the years the voices of Mike Love, Carl Wilson, Al Jardine and Bruce Johnston, the main Beach Boys, haven’t always been in great shape… But only a few times during Carl Wilson’s solo on ‘Don’t Worry Baby’ did any voice falter Saturday night.  The rest of the 90-minute show that included one encore was right on target.”

Sept 1 1985-The BBs played Albi Stadium in Spokane, WA. The next night they played the Pacific Amphitheater in Costa Mesa. That day they also appeared on the Jerry Lewis MDA Telethon.On Sept 14-15 1985-they played the State Fair in Puyallup, WA. Carl missed these shows and Brian played in his place. The reviewer noted that he “stood near the center of the stage and sang the lead on several songs including Sloop John B, Dance, Dance, Dance, Surfer Girl and God Only Knows.” Think I’ll stop here!

You make great points. Mainly I was just noting that as much people bemoan Joe Thomas -he is there because Brian chooses to not be totally in control of the recording process for a variety of reasons.

I am a huge Brian fan but at the end of the day we have to say that he must take some of the blame. If he is unwilling to ever again take total control of the recording process, as has basically been the case since the late 70s than he will be at the mercy of the people he cedes control to. If Brian had really wanted a Wilson-Paley album to be released in the 1990s than he had to actually produce the record but it seems like he ultimately, despite being free of Landy, no longer wanted that responsibility.

Yeah he got into a rut-just like in his 60s movie career. He did realize it and in 1974 he really shook things up with a radically different set list but apparently he felt that the audience didn’t like it and after one or two shows he went back to the set list he’d been doing before.  He was obviously bored -though he often still sang some songs with great feeling!

Yeah my memory is that he sang well and was still relatively thin but seemed stoned and looked pale and somewhat unwell. Also by 1972 the oldies were all treated as parodies and rushed through with little feeling or used as an opportunity to drink water or kiss fans-a far cry from the feeling he put into the old numbers in 1969.  He even seemed bored with more recent numbers like suspicious minds-which was a monumental moment in the 69-70 shows. Obviously he gets wrapped up in numbers like how great thou art-but I feel like he started singing that with too much bombast compared to the subtlety of singing on the 66 master take

It’s from the same Red Skelton show that we’ve known about for years but no one ever bothered to watch the full preserved hour long broadcast-with that small extra bit. Still pretty cool! By the way-Jim’s book is beyond awesome but my book with Jon is the first one to mention that date-as I uncovered the info when the paperwork (once owned by Dave M) came up for auction years ago

It’s hard to get super excited-as the shows are all pretty similar in 1972 and to my mind not his best-or do you think some of these shows are exceptional?

I noted elsewhere that I read the new portions of the book (have not yet reread the original portions from 78 and 85) and thoroughly enjoyed it. As I said it is a book about Brian rather than a BBs book so the updates are mainly filling in what had happened to Brian was up to. Even then it is more about David’s personal experiences as an insider in Brian’s life and is not a biography of everything that BW has gone through since 1985. Indeed at times when David became busy with his own life he checked out of Brian’s life so there is nothing about the years 2008 or so up to 2018. If I was to be at all critical I would say that, as he is an insider, David refrains from any criticism so he has nothing bad to say about any albums or the 25th anniversary show or Joe Thomas or Scott Bennett, etc. Again, that is fine, though I am sure he has lots more he could say about all of the ins and outs. David revealed that Debbie from the board was an anonymous source on the original book and gives her ample space to share her experiences from the 1977-1981 period that was not in the original book-which is fascinating. We also learn all about how the Radio City show was organized.

By the way that August 19 1973 Nassau Coliseum show is also source for Sloop John, Help Me Rhonda and Leaving This Town on the released album

I love all the new releases and don’t have any serious audiophile complaints about Feel Flows . My only question is whether I need Sounds of Summer if I already own all of the songs. For anyone starting to collect BBs material it sounds great. I just don’t know if am willing to pay simply for new mixes. I purchased so many comps in the past but then I just listened to Made in California instead-so do I need another greatest hits? But that has nothing to do with this particular comp-it’s a question we all consider every time a new compilation appears. Sometimes I break down and buy it and sometimes I don’t-like I ended up buying the ultra deluxe recent Who Sell Out even though I already owned the previous version with lots of extra tracks. But if five years down the line an even more deluxe one appears-it would be a hard sell.

Personally I prefer live in London LP but I am of the less is more school-I prefer a more stripped down sound for the BBs just as I do for Elvis

I think it’s been suggested that maybe Brian wasn’t informed and his website people issued the statement when Jack died without actually discussing it with the big man. It’s a little strange that a statement is given that is posed as if Brian wrote it but Stranger things have previously happened

Seems like an impossible question to answer-he was a guy who liked to party and at a certain point it started to become a problem. He had his share of crazy moments but seemed fairly together till 1977 when he slowly started to deteriorate. I’ve heard that after his 1971 hand injury he started drinking more-he felt a bit awkward standing onstage with no drums to hide behind. I have a 1965 interview where he claims that he doesn’t drink at all but who knows if that was true at that time.

Of course the double release was in place of a single lp concert recorded in late 1972, which apparently was rejected for not including many older songs. so the 73 release was more of a crowd pleaser with many oldies albeit done in 1970s style. I recall that Brian was not that hot on the first attempt at the concert LP or so he said in the 73 Record World interview

There are a lot of what if’s in his career-like what if he kept touring and recording non soundtracks in the mid 60s would he have held his own against the British Invasion or what if he had done A Star Is Born-would he have risen to the occasion or was he really too down and out in 1976 to really get his life back together?

The reviews are interesting and they point out, I think, correctly that ultimately it is hard to get at the interior Elvis-hard to know what he was thinking. That book Listening to Elvis talks about that, for example, even though we know Elvis allegedly hated recording many of his movie songs in the 1964-68 period especially-the session tapes seldom reveal that frustration (at most Elvis occasionally makes a joke about the turkey of a song he has to sing) so his inner frustration was buried-so that is hard to show in a film

It’s too bad he doesn’t really look like Elvis-Kurt Russell physically looked more like him than Butler’ in my opinion

Interesting info-I don’t have my book in front of me but that might be a show that I didn’t have a review of. I know it’s a thousand years ago but do you happen to recall if they said why Dennis was absent (it was long after his hand accident and he was at most shows in that period-though mainly just singing harmony rather than drumming

Also has to be said that the Wilson dynamic was complicated-as it is in many families. Multiple people have stated that they had trouble expressing their feelings and could not really deal with emotional scenes -Brian and Dennis were both MIA at Murry’s funeral. Certainly modern Brian seems to have trouble dealing with those kinds of things.

There was that one very revealing Carl interview from, I think, the late 80s where he went into some detail about a number of controversial topics-like his 70s substance issues-he was super honest in that interview-which stands out in my mind because he was usually pretty diplomatic/cagey in interviews after 1982 or so.

Not to derail the thread but I am torn in my opinions about this LP and basically all of Paul’s 1970s albums. They don’t grab me as much as I would like them to. Clearly Ram is a lot slicker and more polished than Love You but somehow I am always ready to listen to Love You and seldom feel inspired to listen to Ram. It’s also interesting that as bad as some BB lyrics can be, I usually prefer them to Paul’s 70s lyrics, which are often as inane as sumuhama. by the way I am a huge Beatles fan and I own many of the Wings canon but seldom feel like playing those LPs-maybe it is my loss.

As I’ve said before it is atrocious but almost all the BBs tv appearances in that period were heavy on the cheese factor-like that horrible version of Little old Lady From Pasadena or their endless summer TV series from 1989 (only redeemed by the great campfire segments). Opinions vary on the Full House appearances but I am not a fan

I think the prison/hospital gigs were all related to Carl’s draft case as Brian stated in an interview but they did not end in 1969. They did some more in 71, 72 and made their final prison appearances in early 73. they played the Women’s prison on Terminal Island in 71, a prison in Maryland in 72 and a few more California prisons in March 73

Yeah well they all booked rock acts for the ratings....Lennon did an interview where he really regretted that appearance on Carson-first of all Joe Garagiola was not exactly the guy to talk to the Beatles! And then Tahlullah Bankhead was on the show and was constantly making comments...Lennon was apparently not amused and McCartney griped about Garagiola when he returned to do Carson in 1984 to promote his movie. Yeah-Neil commented on that Tom Jones appearance and said it was a mistake to appear with him-but hey I agree with you-that stuff is fun to look at-and it did not harm their careers at all-Neil can be a little precious about things-it's all in good fun.  It is funny though how unhip the host and his guests often were in those days...Did you see when the BBs appeared on Douglas in Dec 1980-he was happy to see the BBs but he was far more impressed to see the guy who wrote "I Write the Songs"!  That kind of show business doesn't exist anymore.  It was such a strange scene-the old Mel Torme/Robert Goulet fans forced to interview and have on people like the Stones (Douglas had them on in 1964 in Cleveland) and Beach Boys.

And I agree that TV was a mixed bag in those days...Neil Young refused to appear with Buffalo Springfield on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show because he viewed it as not their audience at all-obviously the rest of the Springfield felt that any publicity is good and were apparently very miffed that as a result they had to pass on the appearance.  It is true though that I don't think Carson ever was as popular with the teenage rock crowd as Letterman was in the 1980s-he was more of a jazz buff-though he had many rock acts on over the years. Certainly Mike Douglas and Merv Griffin were extremely square shows-both of those guys were more into Robert Goulet or later Barry Manilow than anything remotely "hip".  I Guess Ed Sullivan, another total square, was the show to be on-and the BBs appeared twice.  David Frost and Cavett were more intelligent but even Cavett seemed kind of square when it came to rock-though again he welcomed people like Lennon and CSN on his show.