I think Elvis had a big impact on that generation-even if someone like Dennis seldom mentioned him-his death hit a lot of people hard at that time. As for POB …I always assumed that the problem was that Dennis, outside the BBs, wasn’t that well known. As we know, Dennis has had a whole critical reevaluation in recent years but it is mainly based on material released after his death. Only hardcore fans probably knew about his songwriting talent in 1977.

Well obviously what makes Smile fascinating is all the conflicting info floating around-did Brian have the whole concept in his head or was he winging it, did he begin to have issues with Van Dyke’s lyrics or was he always in sync with him, did certain BBs really hate it or was it just his paranoia, could he have finished by May 1967 with more support or was he lost and unable to figure out the puzzle without Van Dyke. Also were there many more Smiles tapes and acetates that were lost or do we basically have all the music made between Aug 66 and May 67?

If you are referring to the 1965 Andy Williams show I don’t know but he sang the song on the April 1965 Shindig episode-though that clip is not as well known

I think the LP cover was taken the day before at the LA show but the band looked similar at both shows

Nice find-must admit that it never occurred to me to look into that-I assume the whole special was probably filmed in late June (Brian’s birthday on June 20 being a big part of it)

Correct …the only European show that took place was the CBS convention. I mentioned in my book that there was indeed some tension at that show between Mike and Brian but I don’t believe the incident that he described happened. Most likely he trusted a source too much and they exaggerated. The review of the show stated that Mike rushed toward Brian and “attempted to turn the grand piano over but instead toppled Wilson’s mic over” and that Brian quickly left the stage after that song.

Yeah, after 15 or 16 years it sometimes seems like there is nothing left to say but then someone posts something that makes me want to respond…..so I still enjoy it

Thank you!

Again though, I’ve noted before that the Dead is a very different animal from the BBs. I am not a deadhead and have never really been interested in their music but I know that the Dead liked to play in a more jazz inspired manner and drag out songs with lots of improvisation. Thus a Deadhead may really be willing to shell out money for each live release to get the version of Dark Star with the twenty minute guitar duel or the 45 minute version of Truckin. But as Ron Altbach noted, the BBs were not an improvisational band-they were more like an orchestra in which every musician and singer has a part to play and there is little variation from night to night. Hence you may want a live concert from 1969 or 1973 but do you really need multiple shows from 1969 that are basically identical in length and set list? Some fans may have more desire than others of course.

Yeah I get it…the summer is when I have a lot of time to read all the posts and maybe I just notice it more then. As you can see from my book and website, I am more interested in the history…so I tend to respond more to those topics than others

Seems like things have gotten very slow on the board…looks like about two or three posts on average the last week. Is it because people are on vacation or just not much new to discuss till the next archival release drops? Just curious.  I admit that I don’t post much myself lately but when I do post often seems like there are few replies for days at a time

I have a few Brian interviews from 1966-1967 where he somewhat self disparagingly states that The Beach Boys ‘are basically squares’. I think Brian was a guy-like Bruce J-with a foot in the 50s and a foot in the 60s. He loved all those beautifully sung but corny songs like Graduation Day and Things we did last summer and lyrically Be True fits in with that vibe.  And Brian actually did have fondness for HS and football and cheerleaders and all that. In the autumn of 68 when the BBs played in Anaheim, Brian spent the entire show discussing Hawthorne HS sports with a fellow alum rather than watching the show.

I mean it was definitely a thought that was out of step with the times in the late 60s and early 70s. If my memory serves me it was not in the BBs set till the 1980s, when they also added the Jan and Dean Little Old Lady from Pasadena to the act and also resurrected their cheesy cover of Long Tall Texan

Yeah…it’s interesting that the Bay Area scene that RS hyped so much has declined in importance in music history while the stock of the “slick” LA groups like the BBs, Doors and Byrds has increased. Obviously in their day the Airplane were considered a big part of the counter-culture but that is also the problem-listening to the Airplane is listening to 1967 but Wild Honey has a more timeless quality. Personally I was never a Dead-head but those that are often say you had to be there-I think the dead was self indulgent with twenty minutes of guitar noodling-but the people that were taking LSD loved it-but if you are not on a trip does the music hold up? Not for me.

Yeah…he was a big part of the live act in 72-73-a dynamic presence in the more laid back group-the dynamic was different in 74 without him

But sha-na-na had a hand in the 50s-early 60s nostalgia that led to American Graffiti, which led to Endless Summer and the BB return to the big money

But the way there is a blog called Additions which has updates and corrections to the book up to 1972

Yeah well as has been said, in the coolness stakes the Beatles were always cooler-they had a sense of style as early as 1960 and, while they did some kind of hokey songs like Til There was You to appeal to grannies, they would never have done a song like Be True To Your School-they were too rock and roll for that. Dennis had the most rock and roll sensibility in the BBs. As Van zant said the rock and roll attitude was to cut school to smoke cigarettes and cruise the neighborhood-not to be the quarterback of the football team and sing around the piano with mom and dad.  However-as Elvis Costello said once-part of the appeal for Europeans of the BBs is how American they were-the way they wore sweaters and had their combed neatly like for a school photo and the things they sang about fascinated people in England who didn’t really have the traditions of malt shops and cheerleaders and cruising. Mick Jagger did an interview in 65 where he mentions that he liked Brian but hated the other guys because they seemed too jocky to him. He also talked about how their lyrics about school and having Fun were subjects he’d never ever write about.  The Beach Boys were never “cool” and that was a problem for them but in recent years you could say that the definition of cool has changed and the BBs are now considered cool in retrospect

Here is the link to 1973  https://www.beachboysgigs.com/1973-2/     The website is Beachboysgigs.com and you can look at the years 1962 to 1973.  I view it as an update to my book- and I try when possible to have a photo from each gig-if I don't have one-then I may use another image and I will usually state that the photo is not from that show

I was relating it to the original thread-BBs fans who hate the whole idea of Be True To Your School and Barbara Ann-and Beatles fans that don't want to know about their hero singing Bip Bop or Mary Had a Little Lamb or Broad Street

By the way-I’d say McCartney is a similar one for me and a segment of people I meet. Obviously those of us who listen to the great Fabcast know that Howie is a major fan-but I’d argue Paul’s solo career divides Beatles fans. Most of them feel that he rarely made a misstep as a Beatle but that his twee side hinted at in the Fab Four really came out in the 70s. So I meet lots of Beatles fans who only own one or two Macca albums but have everything by the Beatles ever put out!

Yeah you have hit on something there-I find that people I meet that are resistant to the BBs charms often associate them with “corny” or “cheesy” songs such as “Barbara Ann” and “Be True To Your School” or “Kokomo.” I often forget this association because I always skip those songs when I listen to them. It’s something we all do-we love an artist or band and therefore we basically subtract from our mind anything we can’t relate to or dislike by them. There are many artists who have four albums I listen to all the time and twenty others that I don’t own anymore. Example-Elvis Costello-I listen to his first six or seven albums constantly but basically I am uninterested after Punch the Clock (1983) and I’ve tried many times but I don’t engage the same way with his later stuff but I still think he is a genius based on those six or seven albums

Right….he was given them to stay awake on maneuvers….so maybe not till 58-9.

Right…the drugs may have started with pills on the road that everyone did in those days. The Guaralnick book suggests it first became a problem around 1965-6, which was at his career low point-as the films really declined in quality and he put on weight. Still what ever problems he had at that time did not leak out to the public and he had a very clean image as late as 1971. But that is when he started to just have a hard time staying in control and people started to know occasional troubling behavior in the studio and on the road. By 72 he was becoming kind of erratic and it shows on screen in that film

Well I think that set is probably being discussed-it’s the logical next release-question is whether the powers that be think there is enough interest in that set to be a physical release or just a digital download