The Smiley Smile Message Board

Al interview, with the statement below to end. :o


http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/persistence-pays-off-step-with-al-jardine-of-the-beach-boys


Part Two will appear shortly, featuring a major announcement concerning a new Beach Boys release, so don't stray too far...

Why do they tease us!?!?!?!  ;D I hope it's good FANTASTIC news!

Thanks for linking this! I think I will get A Postcard From California after all.

As long as it's not the same old moldies, I'm about to sh*t my pants.

Better get a change of pants ready...


http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/pretty-darn-close-beach-boy-al-jardine-on-his-new-solo-album-plus-smile-1

A few comments.

Smile - obviously incredible news.

2012 - needs to work on his math.

Grammy Lifetime Achievement - they were awarded that ten years ago

Big wow!!!

All parties up for 2012 and a SMiLE related release.

I hope Al has the ok to announce all this.


I would like to see us doing the Grammys this year as a Lifetime Achievement situation, but unfortunately that’s not gonna happen because the group would rather start next year, so that gives me a year to prepare.

So for 2012 we hope to kick-off the Grammys, then a worldwide tour.  I think you’ll get a chance to see us live, because it will be quite a coming-out party in 2012.

Brian’s team has been very encouraging; we just have to figure out how to do it, you know, who will the players be and who will be involved, but everyone has agreed in principle to do it.

Guess 2011 just kind of snuck up on them! ;D

Andrew. Awarded yes but did not perform. I think that is what he is wishing for.

I really, really hope this is true, amazing news about SMiLE!

Seconded, thirded, fourthed, .... gazillioned! A big wow, and I hope it will be an item to treasure... I am thinking a 3CD-set, with disk 1 containing the best possible reconstruction of the album itself, and the other two filled with desirable additional material. And a lavish booklet. And a SMiLE bathrobe. And a pair of SMiLE slippers. And a SMiLE bottle of vintage single malt whiskey. And a box of SMiLE cigars.

To ensure a maximum SMiLE experience on the first few evenings of listening.

Let's wait see -  could be the 30 years box set stuff bolstered by the other bits that have trickled out, like the Humble Harv H&V demo, various GVs cuts... all remastered of course!

Oh, and if Al's into it, the "real" version of Worms!

You mean: Al Sardine's Can Of Worms? Should we open it, really?

You forgot the plans for the sandbox.

I am over the moon, since I never got the Sea of Tunes box. I don't think the new one will be as comprehensive as that, but this is really happening, man!  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

:lol

BTW: will the 2011 Smile be in Duophonic?

Just askin', maaan...

Holy crap, I just came in my pants.

Is that the Banana/Louie/Sandbox experience?

Give a sh*t, would you Andrew? Capitol might be releasing Smile! ;D

Might be, of course. I won't believe it until I have the cd in my grubby hands.

To keep riding the skepticism wagon,  how many times have Capitol/Warner/the BB's themselves hinted at releasing Smile since it was canned? The mooted version in late '67 minus Smiley tracks that was mentioned in LLVS, Warner's dealbreaker.... Any more?

The petition to ban you has just started.

Sorry, I'm a bear without my morning coffee  ;D

Jesus fucking shitting Christ on a stick.

I'm at a loss for real words.

I always knew this day would come (even if it was the 2067 microchip version from LLVS), but now that it's finally here I am astounded.

3CDs MINIMUM, preferably 4 and a DVD.

I hear Lenny Bernstein chuckling in his grave...

I'd be thrilled with ONE CD collating the GoodVibrations tracks plus a few others. I don't need to hear endless takes(though I'll buy it).

However, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Until I hold it in my hot little hands. BRI does have a tendency to not follow through on their plans.

and then there's "The Beach Boys Play Smile" already available in iTunes. Featuring previously released stuff, including Smiley Smile versions in place of SMiLE versions.

Let's not get too excited until we learn more...

That would be the limited (sand)box edition which includes a beagle and a weimaraner which - on command will "do their thing" in that very sandbox so that you can really fully experience the late 66 / early 67 musical development Brian was going through?  ;D


To be honest, I'm excited, but we're relying on a single quote from the same guy that promised us a soon-to-be released first solo studio-album quite a few years back (and ending up with an I-Tunes download).
But that's the pessimist in me.  :)   I really hope that within a year we all hold and listen to that SMiLE-box we have been waiting for for so many years.

Wow, my jaw just dropped (literally) when I read the Jardine story in my newsfeed.

If the tour and the Smile release actually happen, I'll be a very happy camper.

  :woot  :thewilsons

No, no, no. One CD would be such a missed opportunity. Ideally I want every minute of music and session chatter. I want all my bootlegs to be rendered obsolete. Then, and only then, would I be thrilled. Anything less than that would merely be satisfactory.

To each his own. I was just contemplating the possibility of that set, in an absurdly beautiful packaging, with lots of never heard and seen things to go with it, would be pressed in a limited run of 1,000 copies, and of all the original masters and acetates simultaneously being destroyed.

I'll believe it when it's released.

I really want to believe this is happening, but my eyes were rolling when Al talked about needing a little more time to finish up the two bonus tracks for the official CD that was supposed to be released years ago. Heck, he's even talking about making changes (during remastering) to a track he has already released via iTunes.

You have to know that BRI/Capitol did not want the SMiLE announcement to come out this way! I just hope the official response is to mute Al's comment as "premature; nothing's settled yet", then the parties involve move forward to compile the best possible SMiLE release imaginable.

As to the history of promising this material before, there was the semi-official announcement in the mid-90s that the PET SOUNDS BOX SET would be followed by a single-disc GOOD VIBRATIONS sessions collection (eventually released five years ago in a very downsized version) and then a two or three disc SMiLE sessions collection.

I agree. Remember when in 2006 Al announced BBs-reunion shows in London and no one ever heard about that ?

Professor - Would you be so kind as to explain the differences as between "dupohonic" and "binaural" for the "little people?"

There is a "binaural" version of Surfer Girl in the Perfect Harmony collection and I can hear vocals in one ear and orchestration in the other...

Hope this is not a really dumb question...or perhaps one for Socrates or Plato from the days of those acoustically perfect fora? 

Explain it to me as if I were five years old! (svp)   ;)

Thanking you in advance...

I don't think that version of "Surfer Girl" is the actual definition of "binaural". "Binaural" is a stereo process in which the separation of the instruments/vocals is done in a way to make it sound like the listener is actually in the room with the musicians. In the case of Pearl Jam's album BINAURAL, this was done by the band performing live in front of a model of a human head with two microphones placed where the ears would be. The stereo separation is not arbitrary when done "binaurally", but the instruments/vocals are placed in the stereo field identical to how the musicans performed in the physical location of the studio. Stephen Desper recorded SUNFLOWER to mimic an actual physical space as well.

"Duophonic", on the other hand, is a crude process which attempts to turn a mono mix into a stereo one but shifting the low frequencies to one channel and the high frequencies to the opposite channel. The result is that the bass may appear to come from the left speaker (or right) while the higher tones such as cymbals or chimes appear to come from the right speaker (or left). It's pretty unpleasant to listen to and the process has not been used in decades.

Me too.

Thanks, great explanation...

Did Stack-o-Tracks follow the binaural route? 

Was it, (as I have always maintained) the forerunner of karaoke?

By this I mean, using the instruments section and allowing the consumer to substitute his or her own vocals?

Thanks again for that "very well explained" response... ;)

There's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip.

Hiya fille –
I think Roger Ryan summed it up pretty well. A few remarks: he (Roger) uses the modern connotation of  ‘binaural’, with that artificial head. In German it is called: ‘Kunstkopfstereofonie’. The Germans did a lot of radio plays that way, which were incredibly realistic, fearsomely so.
However, via Google I discovered that there are numerous things that ‘binaural’ applies to, e.g. subjects of a biophysical nature (particular waves in our brains, in our aural perception, and so on). That led me to the idea that indeed it might have been some marketing hype in the proto-stereo days, where vocals were presented left, and all the rest right. Sounds terrible to me.
‘Duophonic’ works basically as Roger wrote, I think. IMHO there’s also an ever so slight delay between the two channels, that’s meant to add to the faux-stereo experience. It produces an ugly phasing effect, at least that is what I think.
Hope I passed the audition.

How long does it take the record company to gear up for something like this "Smile" release?
Are they working on it now?
Ah ,that Al Jardine,always stirring up hope!

Perhaps it was just a joke on Al's part. To brighten up our lives for a month or so.

Yes, and then if Smile doesn't happen, everyone will funnel their $$ into buying the NEW Edition of Postcards, aka the original TLOS.

I don't think Alan's laughing a lot right now.

He's always looking down in the mouth isn't he?*


* = dentist humour.

 :lol very good!

I see that a lot of people are quite rightly cautious about Al's announcement regarding SMiLE, but given the recent removal of rarities and SMiLE material from youtube and the surfacing of some rarities such as the YASB rehearsal I feel we have cause to be quite optimistic. 

Bear in mind the YASB rehearsal "surfaced" a year ago -  we only just got to know about it. That said, as I said earlier, any 50th anniversary material trawl won't have begun yesterday.

Cautious optimism! Cautious optimism!

Uh-oh!

Retraction coming soon AGD? :(

Nope - I just get the impression he's been a little, ah, precipitate ?

I'll have to look that one up and get back to ya! ;D

OMG! This has to be true!!!

I just prey they don't mess this release up..

Like everyone else here, I'm really crossing my fingers that this is for real. Although, if his claims are indeed true one really starts to wonder what's up with Al. He seems to spill the beans whenever possible! Somehow, I imagine a lot of past BB-related surprise-parties bombing because of Al yelling "surprise" just before the unsuspecting person opened the door.  ;D

It will be a very nice release with the deluxe treatment it deserves!

Are you being optimistic or do you know more than the rest of us? Please share!  :)

Well, yeah... they could say that, but I seriously doubt they will.

BTW, I've had a couple of conversations with fans who've gotten themselves tied in knots over the exact meaning of the "Beach Boys version of Smile" comment: simply, what Alan is referring to is the original 1966-67 sessions, as opposed to BWPS. That's all.

The website from which Frank Holmes had been selling Smile art prints is down (and has been offline for a few months, I think).  Pure speculation... did Capitol finally buy or license the original cover/booklet art?

I think if we boil it all down, we get some seriously suggestive points.

1.) Al and the touring BBs have definitely reached an understanding -- he's playing at the Reagan event.
2.) Brian's hesitation toward a reunion and assorted hooplah was (as many suggested) done to tamp down speculation when his folks were trying to promote BWRG and solo tours. His camp is talking with everyone else.
3.) There seems to be some record company move toward some sort of rarities set.

On their own, these are all interesting pieces of news. I think anything more specific is premature -- Smile would certainly be a coup, but I'm going to believe it when I see it. Likewise, Brian doing more than an appearance or two (if that) with the group would be a surprise.

I've heard these rumors every few years since what....1972?  Does anyone think there is anything of substance from SMiLE that's not already on our hard-drives?  A completed master of CITFOTM?  It would seem that Brian utilized just about every scrap he could on BWPS. 

I'd welcome an official release if for no other reason that to put the whole thing to bed.  I'm not gonna crap my pants because it says Capitol on the cd.   ;D

It's definitely a "wait and see" sort of thing. 
One has to wonder if Capitol will make an effort to procure the acetates in the possession of Durrie Parks, Bruce and Al, and others; or whether it will be a case of "this is what we have this is what you get".
 Hopefully they're using someone knowledgable on Smile, such as Alan Boyd, rather than using some in house geek. 

HOLY CRAP IN MY FACE.

Certainly I don't expect a Beach Boys SMiLE set to be anything more than a sessions collection of the material most of us have heard, but it would be nice to have everything in the best available sound quality and in the proper context (extensive liner notes, etc.). What was released on the GV box set, plus what SOT gave us plus nuggets like the edited backing track to "Child Is Father Of The Man" is fine by me.

I want to see it happen, but there's no use getting my hopes up just yet.  This summer?  How many times was the Pet Sounds box delayed again?

The Beach Boys' version of Smile = Smiley Smile  deluxe edition.     ;D

i'd kinda like there to be a 2cd version that anyone who goes to barnes and noble can get if they're curious.  There should be a version sitting in the beach boys section.  i'm sure capitol would have in mind too.

That's a pretty big difference in expectations from the earlier poster who would only be satisfied with a release of every bit of recorded material.

Personally, I would think that if they're going to bother doing this at all, they would find everything that's available, and we know there are things out there that most of have not heard.  At very least, there are the Veggies or IIGS sessions with toothbrushing and toilet flushing sounds.  There's whatver is on the Parks acetate, and maybe Mike Love really does have a copy of that fabled 7-minute H&V.  We can hope.

Of course I'm hoping for lots of previously unheard material and better sound qualities than on the bootlegs, but the most important thing is that after 44 years, there will finally be an officially released 'Smile' by The Beach Boys. The 'Smile' tracks on the GV box set and BWPS were of course great, but they didn't close the book. It's time for one of the best unreleased albums in pop music to finally become one of the best albums.

Here Here!!! ;D

 ???























  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

I have nothing else to say other then I'll take 100000

We're sure to sell a million units in...

I hope that is the case.  Frank's artwork is synonymous with the music of Smile.  It's about time he officially got his due.

So what does everybody think? What kinda versions do you think we'll get out of "Heroes And Villains", "Surf's Up", "Wonderful", "Cabin Essence", or "Wind Chimes"? Same as the '93 box set? How will the unfinished tracks be presented? if no new vocals were recorded, I'm really intrigued to see how this plays out. I really hope we get some ultimate version of "Heroes". Incorporating a bunch of different parts. My favorite version as of now is the Smiley Smile version, but I gotta imagine there might be something just as cool still waiting for us. And also, "Surf's Up"....maybe they will do what the Anne Wallace (I think?) mix did with "Surf's Up" and sync the solo piano version to the backing track? Or just use the completed '71 version? Will they just try to put the material into a listenable order? Or follow BWPS? Do they use "I Love To Say Da Da" or "Cool, Cool Water"

My hope is that it gets released in a one-disc format for the average person, showcasing what will be the album entitled SMiLE by The Beach Boys. Then, along with that, have a deluxe edition (for us) that will include alternate takes of stuff like "Heroes'", the "rock with me Henry" version of "Wonderful", "He Gives Speeches", and whatever other cool stuff they find. I'm assuming it might just be a 2-disc thing, if only because Al didn't use the words "box-set". And I'd be Ok with a 2-disc set as long as it give us all the most complete versions of every song from the SMiLE era. I still find this odd if Brian considers this The Beach Boys version of SMiLE, if only because it seems like SMiLE, to him, was the 2004 album.

What's everybody else say?

i agree with that there needs to be one for the average music fan.  something where they can go into barnes and noble and see it on the rack.  in the glorious original album cover. 

A one or two-disc version for the casuals and a box set ala The Pet Sounds Sessions for the die-hards would be ideal.  But I think just having nice clean stereo mixes of everything they have the tapes of (Especially "Child Is Father Of The Man") would be enough for me.  The good news is that a lot of the little fragments and "feels" don't run very long, so a 2 or 3 disc set could conceivably contain a lot of material.

Well, it was known that Mark Linnet had been doing tape research on "Smile" tapes and work on a proposed CD/DVD project of 1972 concert recordings. The music biz is in a state of ruins, and Brother Records may as well wring some money from their most valuable remaining unreleased materials. The most important question is, has Mark Linnet found anything new that we haven't already heard on bootlegs?

Note Al's statement that "we didn't do any new recording"  rather than "we aren't going to do any new recording." 

This almost could be interpreted as if Capitol's Smile package is more or less finished.

Now, of course, if it's not supposed to come out until the summer, things could change substantially even if a tentatively finished collection exists at this time.  Still, Al seems to have enough certainty about what it is to be speaking about it in the past tense. 



 

I hope they'll also offer a vinyl version. Though I'm not a part of the recent vinyl revival fad(though I've never not owned a turntable since I got my first one in 1966), it would be a thrill to own a "Smile" album cover and booklet, as originally intended & designed.

This is going to include the original booklets too?  I thought all those got eaten

Very good points. Also, Summer is nearly right around the corner, so, if it were more of an iffy thing I don't think Al would have mentioned such a close date. Ignorance is bliss so for the time being I'm going to believe Al 100% that SMiLE is being released this summer....until then I will cringe at the opening words of "WonderBill" on Endless Harmony..... :-\

At this point all we can do is speculate, but: is Capitol itself throwing this collection together  or will Brian have any say in structure of the 'album'/set?

A handful of the booklets survived, and there are several reproduction editions.

I didn't know it was that bad till tonight when I searched "Smile - the beach boys" and only Smiley Smile tracks and a few heroes and villains takes came up. All of the SMiLE songs I saved in my favorites have been removed. Everything has disappeared! I'm very optimistic about this!

We're prolly getting the Smile that capitol put together in 88....same mix, everything.  ;D

as long as it's not the one from 67

I'm still searching for words, honestly never thought a(nother) BB SMiLE material release would happen in my lifetime.

After the initial jaw-dropping shock....

I guess I fall into the cautiously optimistic crowd here - I certainly hope that these things actually come to fruition, but won't be holding my breath.  As others have said, even if there's nothing "new" for us die-hards, just having good quality mixes would be more than worth the price of admission.  If we get a few things that we've never heard before, all the better, but at this point it's really hard to believe that everything that's there to find hasn't been found already.  Hopefully I'lll be proven wrong on that front!

As for the "reunion" talk, I think Al might be setting people up for disappointment.  I think that a reunion, if it happens, would be much more special as a one shot deal, a massive concert event with a killer setlist.  A worldwide tour seems a bit much to me.

I'm trying not to get too excited. But an official Beach Boys Smile? C'mon! That's good news. I hope it is happening and Al isn't just "blowin' smoke".

Someone at Capitol Records must have found that long lost memo. ;)

I'd be cool with that, too. SS is a vital piece of Smile.

Actually, I wouldn't mind that at all. Maybe the Smiley Smile album remastered with five or so outtakes/studio session excerpts, and maybe some songs from Hawaii like Gettin' Hungry. Yeah...that would be cool with me.  8)

I agree.
The version of Gettin' Hungry in Hawaii is actually much better than the studio cut & it doesn't have as much of those annoying pauses.
Odd to think that this is the only concert that Gettin' Hungry and Hawthorne Blvd. were ever played at.

Hell, I'd be happy with a dvd of the silent Hawaii footage, as is. No sound at all, cuts and tears in the film, dirt spots...it wouldn't bother me one bit.  :)

What I find of great interest:

On BW's official website, our AGD posted two messages about the upcoming release of SMiLE, yesterday and today. The inner circle and/or the mods did not take these down.

I think that augurs very well.

Our AGD ?  :o ;)

Well, I'm guessing that Brian would have had to OK it - Capitol have always deferred to his wishes over Smile, even though, legally, they owned the tapes. But, that's just as guess, of course.

One further point: yes, we, meaning the likes of us posting here, probably do have a lot of what will be on any such release. But "we" are a very small group, and plenty other folk will not have heard what we have over the last 35-odd years. Example: the 2008 POB sold about 13,000 in the UK alone, and I'm willing to bet there aren't 13,000 hardcore DW fans in the WORLD.  The vast majority of folk will know of Smile, and no serious rock historian or fan would pass up on such a release.  I want to see one, just one, review that says "jesus, it's in bits and it still makes Pepper suck", or something along those lines.

Even if I have to write it myself.  ;D

 :lol (affectionate possessive form...)

What if Capitol did the exact same format/formula for the Smile Box set as they did with the Pet Sounds set?

First of all, have a definitive track line-up in stereo, then do sessions in chronological order, but only tracking "Highlights" (Whatever that means, I think the whole session would be a highlight) and then the track itself.
Then a disc of stack-o-vocals and alternative takes with some promos stuck in there.
Finally, a disc of the album in mono; just like the PS Boxed Set.   Oh, a replication of the Smile booklet.

Would that satisfy your needs?

That would be most acceptable, with the caveat that in this instance a definitive track lineup ain't possible. For yucks, maybe they should use the 12/66 handwritten list.

I love being affectionately possessed.   :grouphug

Every morning I log on to this board praying for such a thread title as this one!! Then I saw the stuff about an Al Jardine release and was ready to chuck my computer through the window ... However, a little patient scrolling payed off: A potential Smile archival release - !!!!!!!

I share the caution expressed elsewhere in the thread, and although it'd be great to daydream of alternate mixes of H&V, the verses to Child, vocals for Look unearthed from Durrie Park's garage, IF this release ever comes to fruition my reckoning is that we already have all the stuff already.

Dont get me wrong: I agree with those that would be over the moon with a nicely packaged, all in one place official release of the stuff we already have (please use the original artwork though!)

At the same time, I'm curious as to the likelihood of unbooted material being sourced for this project. Presumably different mixes of H&V are out there somewhere? Mike must have some of the Smile material still? Durrie Parks' stuff must have been listened to by someone. Wasn't she approached a few years back?

Let's just hope some type of Smile release comes through soon.

Perhaps we've been put on the wrong foot. Perhaps it'll be 1 CD, titled: Mike Love Presents The Real Smile. With mr. Love's personal selection and favourite sequence.

 I think sequencing is the most interesting question a possible official Smile release raises. It really is problematic.

Don't want to get too far out with this, but I do think one of Smile's most beguiling qualities is its formlessness. It's like Lego for rock snobs!!

As soon as you lock it down to some sort of definitive track listing, something will be lost. I think a great idea, to follow AGD's cue, would be to use the handwritten track list. So 1 disc is devoted to the 'album' like the Pet Sounds box. But here's the rub: The handwritten track list is printed on the sleeve but this time we have the message: load disc for correct playing order, or some such 21st century take on the original instruction. Slap it in your computer and all the fragments are there but you have to arrange them yourself a la Project Smile. The irony would be simultaneously wonderful and horrifying I think. Smile evades us once again!

Yup, it's up there with cold fusion and vacuum energy.

So you wouldn't want official BW mixes from 1967? Uh, Ok??  ???

No, he wants the remixes as done by Eugene Landy and Alexandra Morgan.

And let's not forgot to mention new/additional lyrics done in "Summer Of Love" style.  :p

Getting way ahead of myself here, but a lot of the tracks are in pretty bad shape aren't they? Do good versions of Barnyard or CIFOTM even exist, and if not, how much can these recordings be cleaned up?

I don't see why they couldn't include more lo fi recordings though. When I think of releases like the Velvet Underground box that has all sorts of scratchy demos, there's no reason why a potential smile release wouldn't include more muddy recordings. Let's hope anyway - I'd hate to see good stuff like Child thrown away due to sound quality.

The horror! The horror!

Been done but not by Mike. Yeah, I said it.

One thing about this band is that they always seem to have something or another turn up that we have never heard before and that kicks ass...I would be glad if they give an honest treatment of the music, have something brilliant and unheard turn up, don't leave out anything crucial, give us better quality versions of the songs; and basically a COMPLETE package. The end-all to all things SMiLE!...which includes the ultimate Heroe's mix, proper mixes of all the other tunes with all parts assembled that we know belong (like the yodels in Wonderful), CITFOTM is a must, and finally a contest where the winner gets to have steak with Brian who after dinner plays the entire Love You album in your living on your brand new baldwin Organ which the lucky person would also win.

If this pans out I feel really happy for all those who waited 44 years for this...I only waited about 15....

What about the work that was done on 'Worms' by Bruce during the Light Album era?   ;)

Or a bonus disc with remixes by The Black Eyed Peas, Kanye West and Timbaland.

I don't want to be a downer, but this is a salient point. According to Alan Boyd himself, there are many empty tape boxes when it comes to the SMiLE sessions. In fact, Mr. Boyd has stated that at least one session found on the SOT releases (the overdub to the "Vegetables" coda, I believe) no longer exists in the official vaults. With many of the sessions unaccounted for, and given the album was never completed to begin with, I don't think we will see anything more definite than the single disc SOT issued a decade back in terms of a "finished" presentation. An attempt to do this kind of approximation can only be seen by the general public as disappointing coming seven years after Brian completed a much more polished approximation of the same thing.

Therefore, unless the band/Capitol are sitting on material we've not heard before, I don't think the idea of presenting the Beach Boys' SMiLE as an album is a good idea. Better to do a comprehensive session collection. The problem of the missing session tapes also affects the ability to do certain stereo mixes or vocal-only tracks. We know the "Good Vibrations" vocals are gone and Mr. Boyd has also said that Carl's lead on "Cabin Essence" is missing as well. In many cases, we have no vocals at all.

Interestingly, Mr. Boyd has stated that he feels confident that previously unheard material exists in the hands of collectors and/or on the various acetates that were handed out, but is there any hope of obtaining these items? I hope so. Even if the sound quality is appalling, this material should find its way into the set.

Finally, on an up note, I think that Brian's edited backing track to "The Child Is The Father Of The Man" is in good shape!

The optimist in me weeps tears of joy whilst the pessimist side predicts the release will be stalled several times due to liner notes content disagreements before finally being scrapped in favour of a 4 disk box of the "Summer In Paradise" sessions.

the Don't Worry Baby stereo mix a few years back proves that ya never know

Wonder whether that includes anyone posting here? C'mon chaps, time to do the decent thing!  :D

 :lol um, make that:  :'(

I don't have anything, I just hope those in charge of putting the "new material" out are looking at our posts of what we expect/want/deserve.   :angel:

My other major question surrounding Smile is always how much of what we have are genuine Brian 66/67 edits, and how much has been pieced together subsequently by Mark Linnett for the GV box? Worms for example was in fragments in 67 I believe. I haven't listened to the sessions recently so I don't how much artistic license Mr Linnett would've taken with the structure of Worms, or how much the structure was already mapped out from the sessions. The same is true for the GV Box edit of Vegetables. He had to piece these songs together somehow.

Of course since BWPS there's another perspective on how fragments such as Gee, western theme etc. could be put together, not that I'm suggesting they re-structure songs according to the BWPS template, but I think inevitably a bit of artistic license is going to be involved somewhere and it'll be interesting to see how that's handled (if, of course, this release ever happens).

I don't personally think a pure sessions release is feasible, although it would probably be the purist's solution.

Don't worry bro', messrs. Linett and Boyd have had a chip implanted in their brain, and are continuously brought up to date about the demands of the SS.net community, exclusively so. Just post 'I Want The Durrie Parks Acetates On There' three times in a row, and your request will be honoured. Don't forget the secret code though.

Roger - I am not sure you are a "downer" but, any sessions tracks for inclusion in an issue of SMiLE seem analogous to the Pet Sounds Sessions, for similar and for different reasons.  Pet Sounds was not released "under a cloud" as Smiley was although the "top down value judgment" has been turned around as it has withstood the artistic test of time .

The Smiley thing took on "a life of its own" leaving people puzzled and perhaps leaving the artists/musicians questioning their assuredly fine work.  After having seen Brian do the "re-sorted" and "reconfigured" BB tracks live, my sense it was more of a realization of Brian's ability to "take his music to the street" once again, in the sense of personal triumph, rather than trying to outdo anyone.  Brian triumphed, in a sense over his demons and his profound losses.  It was as "against all odds" and many  His fans were jubilant for that personal triumph.  It was his vision for the work.  

This does not remove any synergy or credit for the original work.  The vocal synergy as among the BB's can be "imitated" but not "replicated."  One of the tracks that I really love from the Pet Sounds box sessions set is "Trombone Dixie" and like a puzzle to be put together, the sessions tracks, will enable and empower the listener, and (posterity for musical/vocal analysis) to see how these many sections "fit together" even if some of the tracks might not be available.  Even informally, as in the "after-party" Youtube on this page, you can see the "synergy" and how they band members and "support musicians" had "fun" with the music.  The tracks show them not "arriving" but the "voyage" getting to the finished product.  

And, I can't speak to even what an "acetate" is because I am clueless about that, but feel that whatever is held out for the listener/fan/student will be as Pet Sounds sessions has been, clearly demonstrating the journey of the project, and the vocals/instrumentation in a way we have not enjoyed up to this point with SMiLE.  

I bet people would even love to have a Beatles "Rubber Soul" sessions set.  It shows the "learning curve" of the band, and the process to "build an album." It is going from the architectural rendering and blueprint, to putting the key in the door of the mansion.  

No one who "covers" this music will or has compared to those original vocals, including Dennis and Carl, recorded at a more or less vocal zenith.  The "performers" are/were not the "creators."  They did not build the mansion.  Brian built it, vocally, with the Beach Boys.  

JMHO  ;)
 

I thought Worms came from an acetate - you can hear it wobble!

From my Little Orphan Annie Decorder I got in the mail?

Or is it: New England Clam Chowder
is that the red or the white?

I can never remember that, white?

This feels a bit like back in 2003 when the announcement made the rounds that Brian would perform SMiLE live.

So is that GV box version from an acetate, i.e. a vintage edit? I really thought mark had constructed it.

The version of Worms on the GV box set is 100% unique to that box set, where you can hear the pitch get shaky during the "la la" vocals heard during the intro. Those vocals in the intro appear nowhere else, at least from most of what we've been able to hear. For what it's worth I cannot remember the reasons why that is how it is, but it was researched.

We dubbed it the "Laa Laa version" of Worms, nothing to do with the Teletubbies of course. ;D

I'd love to hear his lyrics to the instrumentals.  ;D

She belongs there left in her little coupe
never known as a drag-strip racer
she laughs and thanks God she won, won, won, won the race

 ;D

Pretty much how I feel.  If Brian has given his blessing, that is a huge roadblock lifted.  But since Al doesn't have many details on it, that implies there is a ways to go to get to a finished package, and there is plenty that could get hung up with liner notes, egos, credits, rights, lawsuits, etc.

Something I’ve never seen addressed…we’ve heard about the Durrie Parks, Al’s acetates, Bruce’s H&V at the bottom of the sea, etc…but I’ve never seen reference to acetates, early mixes, reference tapes, etc owned by Carl’s estate (or Dennis’).  Seems to me that after BW and VDP, Carl would have been the most likely to have copies.  Anyone heard anything about that?


Unless the worldwide tour is a "farewell" tour (or, inspired by Cher, their first farewell tour).   I don't really expect these guys to give up the steady income, but they are Medicare age and it would be a way to get a lot of publicity.  But personally I’d rather not see Brian get involved in any big way.  He has worked to make an independent career for himself that he/wife/managers can call the shots on.  Ongoing reinjection into the drama, egos, lawsuits of the Beach Boys machine doesn’t sound like a positive direction.

P.S.  While a regular lurker, I haven’t posted in years, but this (potential) news is too big not to comment on.

I recall that the wobble was due to a mastering error that was not corrected before the box set was released. Whether the unfinished track was edited together by Linett or not, we know the song originally followed that structure (for the most part) since Parks lyrics indicate verse/chorus/verse/chorus. I'm sure the bridge and ending could be determined by listening to the existing session tapes.

At one point I remember reading that "Wonderful" was the only track presented on the GV box set that existed that way on an actual reel (apart from the previously released alternate edit of "Heroes & Villains"). Also, I heard that some of the tracks had their parts compiled on reels in a specific order and Linett simply edited them together in that order; I recall this relates to "Heroes & Villains" (Sections) and "Wind Chimes".

We know for certain that Linett grafted the "Tag To Vegetables" portion onto "Vegetables"; the crossfade covered with reverb is not a vintage '67 effect.

Consider said roadblock lifted.

It's true that "Barnyard" only exists as a poor second generation copy, a dubdown to mono recorded onto one track of an otherwise blank 8-track/one inch tape.

Lo-Fi is better than No-fi, but if it is at all possible we need the best sounding stuff as possible without comprimising the mixes...The BB are more of a sonically mind blowing band than the Velvet underground....

At minimum, the best available version of every Smile song, muddy or not, should be included.  

I'm not sure that any package will ever truly "close the book" on Smile '66-'67.  No matter what's released, there will still be unsolved mysteries.  With that said, I truly hope that the powers that be are leaving no stone unturned in an effort to make this thing as complete as possible.  

You don't want a situation where some mind-blowing version of H&V or Surf's Up turns up a couple years later on an acetate, and we all start pining for an even better Smile set from Capitol.  Or maybe we do want that.  :lol

Colour me flabbergasted.

This potential Smile release is one of the greatest news I've heard these last few years, and I don't even know what to say about it, except "wait and see". I, along with most of you here, have very high expectations about whatever will be released, IF something is released. I sure hope a 3 or 4-CD set is in the works... A single CD wouldn't do Smile justice.

...OR Beach Boys Central could finally be opened, and it would be the ideal way to release "bonus sessions" deemed CD-unworthy. We can dream, can't we...  ::) ;D

This. I wish we had some idea what material was actually out there, so much of SMiLE has been officially released, only the second tier of material hasn't been put out somewhere. Are we going to get anything as good as Heroes or CE that we haven't heard yet? After 45 years I hope that we get a special release of this stuff that's worth buying.

I feel I can state with absolute certainly that, no matter how extensive the track listing or lavish the packaging, someone here will find something to bitch about.  :ahh

Brilliant !  :-D

Never have I heard truer words than these. Not that I'm saying I won't be bitching, because I'm sure I will. I hope they do release it as a big set  like PS, but for some reason, I just don't feel that will happen. I think we'll get 2 discs tops. And 99 percent of it is stuff we already have. The reason we always get let down is because we all get carried away by what we 'hope' is going to be on there. Already, most people on here are jacked up about a big box set, and there isn't even any official word.

How about this for an promo tag line ?

"In 2004, Brian Wilson presented Smile. Now, in 2011, Capitol Records present the real thing".

:lol

Methinks there would be some heat over that one ;)

Well, I remember reading/hearing somewhere that Brian Wilson/the Brian Wilson "estate" has been collecting Smile material for years now (since the BWPS dream started). They started asking around for any bootlegs/acetates/whatever floating around, and promised not to punish anyone who gave them the material. Supposedly, they have gotten some interesting stuff back over time and Brian now has his own personal archive of Smile material.

I mean, who else was going to have better luck asking people for this stuff than Brian himself?

The fact that Brian is on board for this project could have more do with why it's going to really happen than just Brian providing his approval.

Then should we start a visible shopping list, so as the powers TB know where not to slip up?  :D

1) Frank Holmes' artwork (cos I feel he was wrongly passed over for the 2004 release, and that release was diminished by the absence of his artwork)

True ? I never heard that?

I can assure you that I, for one, will be happy with whatever we get as long as it's a multi-CD set. Obviously we won't get to hear every little second of the Smile sessions, but a single CD would be an outrage.

Well, how about this then: If you could choose whittle it down to only 1 official  cd's worth of material, what would it be and how would you sequence it?  And this is your dream line-up; even if you know the stuff is missing, or is presumed missing, it doesn't matter. We'll just pretend it's there and they can release it!

1. Our Prayer
2. A version of H&V with IIGS and Barnyard in it somehow.
3. I Ran w/vocals  (don't care if this isn't 'officialy' a SMiLE track. I think early on it was).
4. DYLW with Bicycle Rider chorus
5. Cabin Essence
6. OMP 'Barnshine'
7. Good Vibrations
8. Wonderful
9. CIFOTM
10. The Elements
      Mrs. O'Learys Cow
      Wind Chimes
      Vegetables
      water chant leading into....
11. Surf's Up

i totally disagree there.  It wasn't the beach boys record, so it had "smile" looking like holmes is art.  but it shouldn't have had the original cover.  this should

As for "I Ran"(working title later changed to "Look"), while paperwork indicates that a vocal session was scheduled, there is no evidence that it ever happened. Certainly, when the melody became "Song For Children"(on "Brian Wilson Presents Smile"), the lyrics were(likely) a 21st century creation. Waiting for a vocal version of  the 1966/67 "Look" might involve waiting till the end of time. It doesn't exist.

Apparently, for the 2004 release Frank was approached regarding the original artwork, but terms couldn't be agreed.

For us, probably... for Joe Q. Public, I think 80-odd minutes of largely unconnected and/or incomplete sections would be ample. Maybe that's the way to go - a mass consumption single CD, and a box set for the likes of us.

The only "Smile" tracks which aren't in circulation with 100% fidelity are "Barnyard", "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine"(vocal version), "Child is Father to The Man" & "George Fell Into His French Horn", so at least we should get better-sounding versions of 3 of those 4.
                      The scenario that many of us wish for(and which, to varying extents might possibly be true) is that "Smile" may have come closer to completion than existing bootleg and/or official releases of "Smile" material have suggested. We'll see.

Beg to differ, but Brian's 11/66 mono mix of the "CIFOTM" that I've [koff] heard sounds pretty gosh darn fine to me.

Also, by definition, any b**tl*g is less than 100% fidelity.  :-D

What if there would be a few sessions to fill up the gaps? If they'd record some new overdubs or additional sections where necessary? Obviously this should be done with vintage recording equipment, under Brian's supervision, and where possibly with the help of some of the old Wrecking Crew guys (and gal). Would that be sacreligious or a good idea?

It would be a ridiculous idea - these people are all pushing 70.

 Speaking for me, I don't want "new" old Smile; I want the mostest bestest of the original in analog sound, the way Brian heard it.

New vocal additions would obviously be not such a good idea, but a few instrumental additions maybe?

LOL, good one.

Brian has apparently been in the studio this week -- hmmm.

Oh god, it's true!  ;D

I think that, to quote AGD, a mass consumption single CD, and a box set for the likes of us would be the way to go.

Obviously the "sessions" should be left as they are. I'm only talking about the single CD (which would also be included in the box set, just like the original 'Pet Sounds' album was part of the 'Pet Sounds Sessions' box set). I think it should be as close to a finished original 'Smile' as possible. And if some of the songs and sections would sound more "finished" with some new strings, horns, etc. added, than I don't see why that would be such a bad idea. I'm not talking about mixing vintage 'Smile' material with entirely new recordings, I'm just talking about dotting some i's.

I disagree, because whomever cloned material for "Sea of Tunes" obviously had access to 3-track, 4-track & 8-track tapes, albeit to do quickie, clandestine, one-pass-of-the tape mixes.

"Estate"? Brian, while not exactly in his prime, is still very much with us......though he will be 70 next year.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't expect you'll find much support for that idea around here.  Even with the best of intentions, vintage equipment, the same musicians, etc., I just think it's wrong-headed to try and "go back" and add things to recordings made almost 45 years ago.  No matter how many i's you try to dot, it's literally impossible to complete the album as it would have existed in 1967, so I don't see what would be gained in doing so.

Where did the verse melody come from for CITFOTM on BWPS? Did Brian just remember it or did he invent it in 2004...

Also, I would love to have a 3 and a half minute H&V instrumental version, and a really clean version of IIGS... Santa, are you listening?? Christmas in July this year??

Well said, Chris.

It's just too late to tinker with recordings in the manner suggested.  Heck, even the additions to Surf's Up in 1971 have always seemed slightly "off" to me.  And that was a mere four years after the fact!  Even in that short period of time, the "vibe" had changed.  People change, instruments change, technology changes, etc.  The original recordings have a special magic that can never be recaptured. 

I'm as excited as the next Smiley Board member at the prospect of a Beach boys Smile release . . . but we've been promised this very thing three or four times before.  And we got . . . nada.  I'm not holding my breath.  Even if Brian's camp confirms this, I've got my doubts.   sorry to "Debby Downer" on y'all.  I've been burned too many times before.  Remember the single disc Good Vibrations anniversary release that years later became an EP/single?   

Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE.    He did.     That doesn't preclude the release of The Beach Boys present the original SMiLE in its entirety as much as possible in its original form.

A somewhat bigger question is how it will be sequenced.......or will that be attempted?    Darian helped Brian sequence HIS release.....who or how will a release of the original material be sequenced or organized?
not to mention marketed
disclaimer....

(donald on a Friday night after a few shots)

Disney album.

Astonishing they're paying for that after the Gershwin clusterblank.

I'm guessing, it being Disney material, they'll merchandise and promote the living bejeezsus out of it.  I also have a theory about BWRG, which I'm sure you can make a very good guess at.  ::)

Well, Brian signed a contract agreeing to make the two albums(Gershwin & Disney) and he's fulfilling the contractual obligation.

So, the stars have aligned in a magnificent display of perfect congruity. The symmetry, grace and enormity of this eventuality is staggering, the degree of closure to be realized, miraculous! Let the principals and universe allow for all extant material, whether in private possession, acetates, or wherever they may reside, to be unearthed and included, so that the fullest justice that can ever be done to the sacred sound dreams of Brian Douglas Wilson, known first as Dumb Angel, then as Smile, WILL be done. Amen.

My Prayer :)

Did you factor in that Pluto is not an ordinary planet anymore, because it's too small?

I'm missing something, whether meant literally or jokingly....how does Pluto factor in, specifically?

Oh, I found your 'astrological' statement beautiful, mesmerizing, all right. I wanted to make a tiny joke, because Bri was heavily into astrology, I seem to remembet ('What Do The Planets Mean?'). That's all, please don't make too much of it...

With the benefit of hindsight I agree but at the time it would have been the right thing to do. BWPS was sold as the real finally completed deal, and the only reason Frank's artwork wasn't used was, I understand, more a financial consideration than an artistic one.

Yes, I agree that it's more appropriate to this release (if this release happens). In 2004, however, we were also assured that the release of a BBs SMILE was an "over my dead body" matter.

I hope Frank gets his due this time around and is appropriately rewarded!  That album cover is the most iconic in RnR mythology!

If Holmes' artwork had been used for BWPS, 95% of the hardcore would have gone batshit insane. They made the right call.

If this SMiLE thing really comes out, I hope that "Air Dada" will be part of it.
Because I'm almost convinced that the "Love To Say Dada" sessions were recorded for "The Elements".
I just makes sense.
Brian stated in the late 70's that "Air" was an unfinished piano piece. He remembered "All Day".
"All Day" was recorded later with the Wrecking Crew, flutes used as birds, the often forgotten "Air Dada".
"Love To Say Dada" with the same groove represents water.
"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" fire and "Fall Breaks", again with the same feel, earth.
The so called Jasper theory.
And if this SMiLE-announcement was just some kind of promo gag from Al, he'll be another head shorter, I tell ya.

I'd like a boxset and booklet with original art of all recordings/acetates presented in chronological order [as best can be established] starting with GV and ending in March '67 [or whatever decided on date]. Please send out the May '66 H&V tape to see what can be recovered.

I'd like all available documentation from the personal stashes, studios, AFM, AFTRA, Capitol's files and financial records, Queens Litho, etc.. Commentary individually from all involved and a big group confab of everyone face to face on DVD. Let's see did I forget anything?

Oh, I'd like it all for $39.99. That's not too much to ask is it?

Jasper wrote:


 :lol has that been done before? I mean: fan beheads former idol because of misfired joke?

But then again, Pluto is a Disney character.  Brian might just include a song that Pluto "sang" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlleFrhsgc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlleFrhsgc)) on his upcoming Disney album.  ;D

i don't think so.  I've always thought they made the right call.  Just like the title said, it was brian wilson PRESENTING smile.  They would have had to change the art for one thing, make it say brian wilson.  Doesn't matter if it was about financial reasons either.  It would not have been right. 

I know you just want him to get his due, but putting that original art on bwps would have been a misrepresentation.  And i doubt he'd want that. 

Let's hope that the knowledge that such a project is on the way will cause anyone hoarding lost materials to come forward, whether to return the material or sell it to Capitol and/or Brother.

I always forget about Air Dada.
I've only heard it on a few select Smile mixes (the ones that chose to get creative!)

BTW, what and where's the facts on Air Dada?
Either in books or on this board?

yeah i've never even heard of air dada?

que es??

"Air Da Da" is merely the second "section" of I Love To Say Da Da from a later session, re-recorded. The sessions are on Secret Smile.

Would have been nice if they'd had him do new artwork for BWPS though. 

Yes, I definitely would like to see a vinyl version as well, with the full sized booklet, of course.  And I'd be really surprised if they don't offer one.

I bought the cover slick and booklet reprint years ago, but it'll be great to see Frank Holmes' original cover and booklet artwork in an official release.  Personally, I'm glad Frank Holmes artwork was not used for 2004's recording of BWPS, as it makes whole lot more sense for the original 1966-67 Beach Boys recordings/sessions, which I have optimistically assumed would ultimately be released.

Speaking of vinyl, anyone know if there are any discographies indicating the various formats in which Beach Boys recordings were released?  For example, in addition to vinyl LPs and singles,  back in the pre-cassette Smile era, Beach Boys  material also saw release on 4 track, 8 track, and reel to reel.  Plus I seem to recall there may have been at least one PlayTape from that era containing perhaps two to four BB songs.

I'd be all over a vinyl version.  Of course this would be the one cd version, assuming that would happen.  i really hope it does. 

New tidbit from the source that broke this story...

http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/the-beach-boys-set-to-release-smile-the-greatest-lost-masterpiece-of-all-time

I've tried to maintain a steady head about all of this, but if Capitol Records was asked about it, and they didn't shoot it down, doesn't that say something? CRAP!

Not only did they not shoot it down, but using the phrase "additional details" they have tacitly confirmed that what Alan said is accurate.

You forgot some sort of excited Smiley face. We all know you need to work on that  ;)

 :woot

Like this ?   :pirate

Oh mercy, I'm getting unhealthily excited about all this, and am setting myself up for a major disappointment I fear.

Alan Boyd and Mark Linnet's involvement does sound promising - like this is something more viable than Al jumping the gun. Maybe explains why Alan Boyd has been so responsive, and on it in terms of his recall, during several fairly recent discussions re: Heroes & Villains Pt 2 and what was found in what box. Maybe he's always like that but would make sense if he has been doing fresh trawls of the Smile material.


I love Air Da Da - one of my favourite Smile pieces.

I'm not entirely sold on it being air, or Da da being water for that matter, although your solution is a perfect one. What confuses me is why Love to say Dada has an apparent 3rd section (they start to lead into a piano section that quickly trails off - on Secret Smile I think)? Why record 3 sections to a song that was supposed to be part of a suite - seems more like a self contained song to me. But then Vegetables was supposedly part of the Elements too.

Also doesn't Air Da da come from a Heroes reel and therefore belong with that song?

Where's Alan Boyd when you need him, eh? .... Oh ... I forgot  ;)

.

oh mah looooorrrdd.

glad linett is on this.  he always makes the songs sound new again. 

That's it!

Please Mark, no gross digital reverb on this...PLEASE!

And, like I’ve said on countless threads on two message boards since they started up. I wish for a Smile sessions box the same size as the Pet Sounds box. Three or four discs with a nice booklet or two. Would like stereo mixes like the SOT set but mono would be fine - as Brian intended. The Sea Of Tunes releases were broken up as a box and a single CD, but I'd like to see it all contained in one box. Hope Capitol promotes the hell out of it so the masses can hear what we've been hearing all these years.

For the Smile-o-Philes here:

This may have been covered somewhere else already, but what do we know that exists that has NOT been included on bootlegs since 1978? A three minute version of "Child Is Father To The Man"? Or the same with vocals? Is there stuff that has been heard that has not appeared on the countless bootlegs over the years? Are the Durrie Parks acetates for real (been confirmed) or is that an urban myth? How about the Al Jardine "Heroes & Villains" acetate? Is that any different than what we've already heard?

I remember Dom Priore bringing a tape of the "Cantina" sction to the Oakland BB convention in the early 80's and being blown away by it. Play it again, play it again! That was like a revelation. I'd read about it previously but never heard it until then.  Then  it eventually came out as a bonus track on the Capitol Smiley 2-fer.

And some here have heard the SMiLE “Linett mixes” from around 1988, I presume?  Of course we have even better technology today; possibly even better than 24 bit, though I think Mark probably scrapped those mixes and started over. Maybe the mixing/mastering has already been undertaken for this new project. So what did you guys think of Linett’s Smile mixes that were circulating for awhile? Is it OK to bring it up here or please forgive me if that’s suppose to be hush hush.

Al mentioned the release of SMILE as an afterthought, to be honest.  We talked for about 40 minutes, mainly about "Postcard," and when he said he had to go, I brought up the 50th anniversary.  After talking about The Grammys, I asked him about all the unreleased material just sitting in a vault and if any of it might come out this year.  

With about 90 seconds left in the interview, Al just said, "Smile's coming out this summer."  I stopped for a few seconds, and I said, "Al, are you positive?"  He said he was.  I wouldn't have printed that if I didn't believe it to be true.  But I understand the 40+ years of the band telling folks it was coming out soon.  I just haven't been around as long to hear all the promises, I suppose.

He really came across as a down-to-earth guy, very friendly, and I'm glad he gave me that major scoop.  I sat on the interview for about 2.5 weeks; Al sent me some follow-up answers last Monday, including his admission that he didn't have any other details on SMILE.

I also sent him & his team the transcribed interview as a courtesy, so they knew what was going to be said, except for my introduction.  Alan Boyd also read it before it went to press; unfortunately, as you know, Capitol didn't want him to divulge any details.  

No one said I shouldn't publish the news about SMILE.  Just wanted to get that out there.  Maybe they thought I shouldn't, but they didn't say no.  Who knows, maybe the BB are asking Al about that interview as we speak.

Last night I published a stand-alone article on SMILE.  I'm surprised no one hasn't noticed the opening promo tag line, as well as the person I thank at the end.  You could say he was a special editor, but more importantly, he made sure everything was correct, and if I left out an important detail, he steered me in the correct direction.  So thanks, Andrew.

http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/the-beach-boys-set-to-release-smile-the-greatest-lost-masterpiece-of-all-time

I've been a Smiley Smiler for several years now; I supposed I was waiting a bit to see if anyone was gonna put two and two together.  Also, I was probably afraid the interview might get torn to shreds on here, but it seems like most people got a kick out of it.  Here's hoping more BB interviews are down the line.

Wow. WOW!

Forgot to mention this, but how did I get the interview with Al.......well, it was almost a year in the making.  Before Postcard came out, I was put in touch with David Carr, who was handling Al's public relations.  Carr seemed interested at the time, said he would send me a copy of Postcard to review, and would put me in touch with Al.  Well, that never happened.

Now, moving onto mid January.  Al must have a new pr guy; I was put in touch with Spud who plays in the band Drifting Sand; and one day later, I was told, "Hey, if you wanna talk with Al, we can do it right now."  I contacted them as a lark to be honest; I knew how well my first attempt panned out.  I stammered and said, well, if we can postpone the interview for another day, I can get my questions together.  Luckily for me, I was kinda, sorta ready that next day, and I got to talk with Al.  And that's my first BB experience.  Still haven't seen any of them in concert.

If this indeed happens, that's quite an experience  :o

If Smile gets released this summer, we're gonna feel like Sam Flynn does when enters the grid in Tron.

According to Alan Jardine:

Are there plans for a new Beach Boys archival project?

Capitol Records plans to issue a Beach Boys version of Smile sometime this summer to begin the celebration of The Beach Boys’ anniversary.  Smile is the Holy Grail for Beach Boys’ fans, so it will be good.   

I don’t have many details on it, although we didn't do any new recording. I'm happy to see it finally come out.  Brian’s changed his mind about releasing the material, but it was inevitable, wasn’t it? (Al chuckles). 

We shall see...............

Jeremy, thanks for the interview and article. In all your years of Beach Boy fandom, did you think you'd be the person to finally break the news of Smile's release? A surreal experience, I'm sure. Again, thanks for the read... and for bringing a little excitement to the week.



The Durrie Parks acetates have been confirmed to exist, though their content and playability are big question marks. As for Al's supposed acetates, I think the fact that he doesn't have many (any?) details about this release would suggest he hasn't been very involved in looking for/providing material. That said, I suppose it's entirely possible he gave whatever he has to Mr. Boyd years ago and said have at it... We shall see.

I'm not clear on this......is this whole smile release thing another bogus rumour?

nope, legit.  SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM :hat

I am pretty happy with any news, I imagine they'll make the official announcement of this in the near future considering "summer" is just a few months away. SMiLE coming out is like end of the world scares honestly, the reasonable man feels like he must discount any such claim.
I'm curious though what do you guys think is most likely?:
1. An "as close as we can get it to how it would have sounded" version of the album, perhaps following the sequence of BWPS ala Purple Chic.
2. An archive release that includes different mixes/session highlights/demos perhaps in chronological order.
3. A multidisc set with the first disc being option 1 and the rest being archives.

Option 1 is not something that I'd run out and get the first day it was out honestly, unless it was really especially choice. But I'd hop on something more comprehensive the day it comes out.  The question really is, who does Capital think the market is, do they think that option 1 could attract more casual fans with a cheaper pricetag? Or do they think they can make the most scratch on the collectors market who are willing to pay premium prices. That's a good Fermi question.

Brian has given his OK...   so maybe he'll add his input into what he really planned( if there was such a thing) Not counting BWPS

I lean towards a multi-disc, but not necessarily with 1 and archives.  
I think it's all up in the air, and there won't be any real announcements until they get it finalized and the promo campaign started working.

I think generally the larger the market the longer the marketing campaign. Bit ticket things like blockbuster movies can begin campaigns a year or more in advance of release, generally when a band releases an album within a month of its announcement it's considered a "surprise" and is usually targeted as a "special" release for collectors. Depends on who the market is.

It's only February and Capitol may have been/are planning a summer release; with promos to start?? 
Then Al squeaks....  So what does that do to their plans, if they even had any( this is Capitol after all)

This may have been covered somewhere else already, but what do we know that exists that has NOT been included on bootlegs since 1978? A three minute version of "Child Is Father To The Man"? Or the same with vocals? Is there stuff that has been heard that has not appeared on the countless bootlegs over the years? Are the Durrie Parks acetates for real (been confirmed) or is that an urban myth? How about the Al Jardine "Heroes & Villains" acetate? Is that any different than what we've already heard?

And some here have heard the SMiLE “Linett mixes” from around 1988, I presume?  Of course we have even better technology today; possibly even better than 24 bit, though I think Mark probably scrapped those mixes and started over. Maybe the mixing/mastering has already been undertaken for this new project. So what did you guys think of Linett’s Smile mixes that were circulating for awhile?

wait a minute...  is this deja-vu all over again?

Do you have any answers to my questions, Bgas?  Or just comments.  Are you one o' them SMiLE experts or just a collector? Seems like there's a few refugees from the Smile Shop here who could provide legit answers......

So far I think the only conclusive answer we've had is, no, nobody really knows of anything new. There' been no confirmation on any of the rumored stuff. I don't know about the citfotm one though, is there something different then the mixes that are already out there?

I read on the Steve Hoffman board that Alan Boyd had said that acetate(s) of missing Smile material did exist.  Is this someone putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?  Or possibly thinking of the Durrie Parks acetates?

Am I the only one who can't believe the Durrie Parks acetates haven't been cataloged and transferred?

I hope this release happens.  When I did my own Smile mix I found that extended Abbey Rd type medleys seemed to be the best way to present a lot of the material.

Alan posted that here. See below..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How complete was Surf's Up in 1967?

I've heard about the existence of a tape of a full arrangement on that second section of SURF'S UP. It's been described to me, third-hand. Supposedly it's pretty weird, lots of strange horn and string parts. But I haven't heard it. We don't have it in the Beach Boys' tape library. And it's not among Brian's tapes either.

There is an enormous amount of SMILE material that's missing. I recently saw a photograph on Ed Roach's site of a tape shelf at Brother Studio, late 1970s. Right there, along with safety 1/4" masters of all the group's albums, is a tape labeled "BRIAN - DUMB ANGEL." Probably a 1/4" or 1/2". I nearly had a stroke when I saw that, and I immediately called anyone and everyone who ever had access to tapes at Brother, and asked what they knew about it. No one knew. What was on that reel? Where is it now? It certainly wasn't listed in the 1985 inventory of the group's tapes.

What WAS listed in that inventory are the many empty tape boxes from the SMILE era, on titles like "Heroes and Villains," "Cabinessence," "Surf's Up," "Vegetables," etc... they were empty in 1985, they're empty today. I'm certain, however, that excerpts from at least one of them (overdubs onto the last verse of "Vegetables") showed up on one of the SOT discs. They're almost all 1/4" mixdowns. Other SMILE tracks were assembled onto some of the 1/2" STACK-O-TRACKS assembly reels, and those SMILE songs are also....missing.

Never did find the multitrack of CABINESSENCE with Carl's lead vocal on it, by the way.

And "Heroes and Villains" is heartbreaking... there's almost NOTHING of any pre-1967 work on that song. I went through every tape on that title while scrounging up parts for the "Hawthorne" remix.... There are no multi-tracks on any of the verses from the early 1967 "alternate" version... nothing at all on the 3rd verse as found in the single (which is why the stereo spread goes a little, um...funky at that point in the Hawthorne mix), "Barnyard" exists only as a (not very good) dub onto an 8 track worktape, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're missing some significant work on "I'm In Great Shape" as well. We did find the first two verses for the single, but they seem to have been re-recorded by Brian specifically for the single. But there's no "3 score and five I'm very much alive" anywhere except on that partially mangled safety copy dated 2/10/67.

Was there indeed a completely diffferent version of the song (as Bruce has claimed) that may have included some sort of a Barnyard Suite (featuring Billy, who loved his chickens) and maybe even a barroom brawl? Did Brian have some sort of crisis in December 1966 that moved him to scrap everything he'd done before on that song and start again? Listening to some of those January 1967 tapes where he's almost obsessively tinkering with different chants of the song's title, it kinda sounds like he's fishing for inspiration.

And speaking of that early alternate mix, we have the tape box (which has a sort of "edit-list" written on it) for the master, but the song itself has been spliced out of the reel. I actually think the count-in may still be there.

Here's what's written on that tape box, dated 1/31/67:
_____________________________

HEROS AND VILLAINS - 1ST PART

1 - 1st version of PT-1
2 - 2nd version of PT-1 with more echo
3 - 1st version of PT-2

4 Bridge to 3rd verses [or versions] (start with “My Children”)
5 Bridge To PT Two (whistle Part)

[note - EDITED, indicating all above parts]

6 - 3rd verses
7 BRIDGE [Last item crossed out]

NOTE:
THIS REEL HAS HAD ALL OF THE ABOVE REMOVED TO AN UNKNOWN REEL 12/31/85 J. PETERS
___________________________________

Here's what's written on the tape box for the SAFETY copy of "heroes and Villains"
_______________________________

“Heroes & Villains” as of 2/10/67 master
1st verse
2nd verse
3rd verse (all edited together)

1 - bridge to 3rd verse
2 - bridge to fade
3 - cantina
4 - 2nd verse
5 - fade

(The above crossed out sort of...)

2:57 MASTER

PROT COPY
_______________________________

I can't even tell for sure if they're referring to the same edit. There's no way to know any of this for sure, because so much is missing. And I'll admit I sometimes think it's kinda pointless for anyone to say "It was THIS way" or "That song was supposed to be constructed like THIS" when there are so many huge gaps among the tapes themselves. especially when it comes to discussing "Heroes."

-Did Brian actually destroy some tapes back in the day? I think he just might have...

-Are there one-of-a-kind tapes that have been stolen and are now in the hands of collectors? Yes...

-Were there tapes that Brian somehow left behind at a studio after working on them that have since found their way into the hands of collectors? Probably...

-Are there acetates of missing material in the hands of collectors and/or people who were around at the time? Absolutely...

Good call. The technical term is "covering one's ass".  ;D


Nah, I'm just a hard-workin' guy.

I wouldn't classify myself as a Smile "Expert", by any stretch. That was Coach.
Smile Collector , for sure.
Having read the quoted Alan Boyd/Hoffman message, I'd say there are either some big stone cold liars out there, or "everyone" didn't get asked.
Be interesting to know whether all the BBs are/were part of everyone, because of all the possible sources, I'd venture the best possibilities are there.

Asking "everyone" would first require knowing who "everyone" was. I'm willing to bet there are folk out there with names we've never heard of in possession of tapes/acetates that they don't realise are important, or indeed in any way interesting.

Oh, for sure, there are people with acetates.  My sense was to this quote:
>>and I immediately called anyone and everyone who ever had access to tapes at Brother, and asked what they knew about it. No one knew << 
The question being, I suppose, was there some security feature involved with accessing the Brother tapes, and was that kept on a list?
were some of the tapes possibly kept at the Santa Monica studio, and thrown out in the trash with all the photos/memorabilia? ( most acquired by Hodads)

Would Carl have made copies, for home review,when he was working on Smile tracks, ( maybe they're still there) or would he being the private guy he was, have left work at work?

Speaking from the experience I had in March 1985, security at the Brother Studio tape store probably was very lax. Back in '85, I was able to walk - with Steve Desper, granted, but no-one checked anything going in or out - into the Capitol tape room in the Tower, and just pull boxes off the racks to look at. I had a shoulder bag, and could have walked out with pretty well anything.

And for those who may be wondering, yes, there was a box for T 2580... and yes, there was a master in it. Not by The Beach Boys, however.

Curious.  What/who was n the T2580 box?

Can't recall right now - solo artist, I recall.

Is there something you want to tell us, Andrew?

Edit:   ;D

And I'm sure that this question already exists somewhere in the depths of these forums; Did the people 'in charge' of putting the SOT box set together put everything they had on those cd's? I can't recall who or what 'SOT' really was in the first place, one person or a group of people. I swear that I heard somewhere that when SOT was busted (which I recall being not long after the SS SOT came out), it was pretty much just one guy who had all of these tapes. Of course, that could be internet legend for all I know.
Also; is there anyone else who thinks this 'Durrie Parks Acetate' thing is a bit overblown? It was mentioned once by Durrie years ago, and that was the first and last time we've heard of it, isn't it? I think people have this idea of a box full of acetates buried in her garage-what was it exactly that she said again? Was it 'I think I may have an acetate in my garage somewhere' or 'I have a bunch of them in the garage for sure'? I assume that by this point, it wasn't anything of importance, or in the end it didn't even exist/wasn't there anymore.

Considering the fellas working on it, I'm sure we will get the best that is possible.

Would it be out of place for the musos and collectors on this board to mount a campaign on the other muso/collector boards they frequent to come forward or spread the word to those who do/might have some of this missing or unique material to come forward now because there might not be a another chance [not to be overly dramatic, still aware that it might not happen this time]? If the cat is out of the bag, I wonder if a regular news media campaign asking for the material has been considered? Something that could go viral and possibly reach the widest range of possible holders.

Wasn't there some doubt about what there might be or what condition it might be in? Was there something about a flood?

Few of us can know for certain but I'd bet they edited out a lot of studio chatter and a few false starts to squeeze material on to as few discs as made sense.

More interesting might be the box that Vigotone had reportedly got ready to ship before they were busted. Far as I recall being mentioned, when that happened a lot of tapes were taken by the authorities.

Were they returned to their proper homes? HAve we heard any or all of that material?  Are we about to????

There must be the one or other unbooted gem in the vaults. Surprising really that nothing from the session with Paul McCartney turned up yet. At least a bit of studio chatter. Or was nothing recorded?
Or the 1967 remake of "False Barnyard", when Carl sang live with the Wrecking Crew. All that is available is the talking between takes.
And perhaps there was more work done after the SMiLE sessions than it's believed. After all, a SMiLE song or segment found it's way on every BB record 'til the announcement of a release in 1972. That was the real end. And didn't Bruce work on "Do You Like Worms?" in the late 70's?

Already being discussed in another thread:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9845.0.html

Thanks Chris Moise, Million Units, Jasper, Cam(us)and others for the responses.

If this new SMiLE comp is anything close to the sound quality of the SOT 16-17 set, it'll be very nice. Always thought when they came out that the Japanese T2580 disc and the Vigotone and Purple Chick issues set the bar towards an eventual legit SMiLE release. 

To answer your question directly, a finished 3-minute edited backing track for "The Child Is Father Of The Man" was found in the vault and was considered for release on the ENDLESS HARMONY soundtrack as well as HAWTHORNE, CA. Obviously, it didn't make the cut. Close to a decade ago, I asked Mr. Boyd if there were any vocals and he replied "no", that it was just the backing track; it featured sections that had been booted but edited (by Brian in '66/'67) in a specific order. He didn't want to reveal the segments or the order it was edited in since that would "spoil the fun" if the track saw an eventual release. I asked if the available chorus vocals could be synched up to the backing track and he replied it was possible, but wouldn't consider it a likely option since he felt an archival release should be presented as such without attempts made to create things not found on the original tapes.

We know some folks on this board have heard the backing track (I haven't), but my understanding is that, apart from the chorus, no additional vocals were ever found (which makes sense given that Parks needed to write new verse lyrics for the song in '03).

Is this the version that is on Secret Smile? I would kind of like the BV's added on just becaus of how super awesome they are. Maybe if there was an "alternate versions" CD that was included, they could synch them up.

I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't surprise me that the track finally leaked out. Something to keep in mind for those who have heard all the boots: chances are that we will be getting less in an official release, not more. For me, context is everything and that's what I'm looking forward to.

I agree...If it is like the Pet Sounds box set I will be super happy...lots more stuff on the bootleg circuit, but the set is pristine. I'm still drooling over it. Hell I took it out again last night just to look through the books because I am that excited for this SMiLE! whatever we are getting.

I am really looking forward to the quality of the music...what is often out there isn't that swell compared to the real deal. As Jasper said earlier, there may be something or another that has gone under the radar...I will keep an open mind.

What's the odds it is all 66/67? Could there be some stuff that was worked on until 72, or the Bruce tinkered Worms? Alternate versions CD, puhleeaase!!!

Brian's edit and mono mix of this track is dated 11/66, and IMHO, it stands alone, sans vocals, as a primo example of Brian's creativity during this period. Synching vocals would achieve nothing other than to prove it can be done.

My understanding is that Carl & Steve Desper took the tapes out of the vault in 1972, listened to them, shook their heads, made safeties and put them back in the boxes. No additional recording was done. Some additional work was done on "Been Way Too Long"  in 1980 (2/11 at Rumbo).

Thanks, Roger!

I gotta ask, why does "When Girls Get Together" get pulled out of the vault and released, but "Do You Like Worms" and "Can't Wait Too Long" get taken out, but then stay unreleased? Why Brian against both? Or did they just realize releasing songs like those would make tracks like "Sumahuma" and "Some Of Your Love" seem even more embarassing?

The simple answer is that The Beach Boys are criminally insane.

I think they needed a BW vocal, even as a duet.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bonus DVD within the package containing both archive and contemporary interviews with all the players in the Smile saga, esp Van Dyke Parks.

Although I don't think it'll happen, I'd like to see a bonus disc with liveversions of Smile-songs the BBs did record over the years (unreleased ones of course)

No, but like with the Good Vibrations Boxset I'm sure that they'll add plenty of goodies like this on a bonus disc.

I wish I could be so sure.

Wasn't there something years ago about some unheard of vocals showing up on some song due to 'tape bleed' from somebody's headphones? I believe it was CIFOTM. Brian erased the vocals for whatever reason, but you could still faintly hear them on a backing track? I know I read that somewhere, maybe on old SMiLE board....

That was something Darian heard while researching BWPS. Not sure it was vocals, though, but my memory is hazy on that point.

I remember it being a clarinet reciting the same melody as the lead vocals that Darian heard - I think. I'm also hazy on this....

Probably heard it from this article:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct04/articles/smile.htm


I'd sure like to know which CIFOTM session these multitracks were from.

Jeesh, wonder why I thought it was a clarinet.

Virtually repeating what you quoted, but this is from an earcandy article by eric white:

"In conversation with him after the show, Sahanaja explained to me how he examined Carl Wilson's vocal on a multi-track of 'Child is Father of the Man' culled from the archives. He further isolated the headphone bleed from this track and was able to discern unheard backing tracks and vocal parts!"

http://www.earcandymag.com/smileliveRFH2-21-04.htm (http://www.earcandymag.com/smileliveRFH2-21-04.htm)

I heard a story about a clarinet, too - maybe that's for Look?

Thanks! I just checked Priore's book and Darian was referring to 'Look!' when talking about the clarinet bleed.

It's great to know we are able to hear vocals for CITFOTM...even faintly....perhaps this will be a bonus track on SMiLE 2011???

I certainly hope so. If Darian was listening to multitracks, the sound quality may be a quantum leap up from what is "out there" now for that song depending on which session tape he was listening to. There's excellent quality stuff that exists from the early sessions, but the stuff that has leaked out for the "final" version is all of relatively poor quality.

.

This post confirms that the right person is at the helm for this project.  I'm very glad that Smile 2011 is in the hands of Boyd and Linett who have been working on this stuff and thinking about these Smile mysteries for many, many years.

I think that we can all be confident that Smile 2011 will be the best possible package that can be compiled from sources, known and discovered.  And if this release fails to blow away the hardcore fans with much in the way of new material, it won't be due to lack of trying on the part of Boyd et al.  

Had a thought -  we know virtually sod-all about the format of this conjectured release so far, other than what Al let slip in just a few wods.

What if this SMiLE material is to be a single bonus disc for a new career retrospective box? It might be little more than remastered material from the two-fers and the 93 GVs box, together with snippets from Hawthorne CA and Endless Harmony.

2016/2017 will be the 50th anniversary of SMiLE – how they gonna celebrate than unless they hold back the best stuff?

Just theorising, is all...

that wouldn't sell.

I'd also like to see home demos from SMiLE - Like the Heroes and Villains demo on Endless Harmony....is there more of that stuff around?


The market is good now - The Beach Boys are celebrating their 50th - this is the perfect time to resurrect their "lost masterpiece" in boxset form, imo.

Agree, just theorising, is all...

A stand alone album of unfinished tracks is unlikely so as has mentioned, a box set or as a bonus album could work.

The story is so interesting that a DVD/ CD combo could be the way to go. Lots of interviews, studio clips (if any) plus I think BWPS, being the 'official' Capitol release, needs a mention after all.

Your words that we know sod-all about this a very true! After all this speculation I really hope I'm not disappointed with the final product.


I think the Beautiful Dreamer documentary really did its job in that area. I don't know how much more information they could give us without the DVD seeming redundant. I think a booklet with interviews from Brian and VDPs would be just fine. Also, I'd love a Pet Sounds Sessions-type booklet where they interview the Wrecking Crew about Brian in the studio during SMiLE. A few bonus pictures of Brian's legendary sandbox piano would be nice too  :p

A Mike, Al, Bruce opinion would be important though.

indeed. I wonder how Mike will feel about giving his opinion knowing that many of the people reading his interview/statement will think he's full of sh*t.

I agree with that. It's inevitable that's what will happen. There's been so many sessions takes - all the way from small snippets of music to instruments only, vocals only, culminating into completed tracks. That's why I'm hoping for a box set of many sessions, just like the Pet Sounds box. I think SMiLE deserves the same treatment as Pet Sounds with a box set of 4 or 5 discs and a book or two. Something for the masses, in addition to a few things for the hard cores.

Big posters, buttons, bumper stickers, coffee mugs, kites, hanging mobiles, frisbees, YouTube clips, Facebook page, and condoms from Capitol Marketing to promote the hell out of it.

Considering the ages of the Beach Boys (and many of their fans), plus the still declining state of the record industry, I doubt they're planning that far ahead.

Stop before you make me cry.  :'(

Since it is a Beach Boys release: I would like to see a lot more interviews with the other surviving Boys and Brian and then all of them in one room, and then Capitol and subcontractor employees involved, unheard from scensters, wives, employees and relatives, etc.. Those Turtles, Robbins, Wrecking Crew, Arnie Geller, Nick Grillo, that lawyer, Steve Korthof [if available], 2nd engineers [if any], Humble Harv, Goldstein, Shapiro, Balatin, Jerry the Columbia engineer, uhhhh...hhhmmmm..?

I really hope they'll include some tracks recorded in that period, but not meant for SMiLE: Tones by Carl Wilson, I Don't Know by Dennis Wilson, etc...

Maybe they can get the guys to kind of polish it up with some overdubs - get Joe Thomas in to slick it up.  Maybe the 50th reunion could be the final recordings to the holy grail of rock!   :o

When was this and what's your source?
not saying you don't know what you're talkin about, i just wanna read about it.


and btw, why was it ever given the name False Barnyard?

How'd you find this out?

What other songs were close to being on Endless Harmony or Hawthorne?
(Other than the Battle Hymn of Republic, we know that was shot down the first note that was heard by the exec's(

What work was done?
Something instrumentally?
I would love it if there was a cut of CWTL with some 1980 BW vocals were added.   ;D

BTW, was the work that was done on this day used for any of the released version of Can't Wait Too Long (GV Box set & SS/WH twofer)

I concur, but it's easy to oversee this kinda stuff with the genius of Smile luring in the same era.
Also, add: Teeter Totter Love

them's fightin words   ;)

The "False Barnyard" with Carl on vox is circulating as the session snippets between takes and also as a full successful take (#14 iirc). It is also different to the version tagged onto HV found on the cd twofers of SS\WH.

Okay maybe it's just me and I'm out of the loop here. But here goes, this year also marks the 45th Anniversary of PET SOUNDS. So I'm hoping that Capitol is not planning on reissuing it again. One can have too many copies in their collection. I'll be glad to see something represented for SMiLE, but we'll have to wait, see, and post comments about it later.

Ted  ::)

Instrumental overdubs... and no, because the first tape "BWTL" was on - the Preiss Smile tape - came into limited circulation before the session.

Joe Thomas....I don't think so. That self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music quickly became viewed(for reasons not entirely clear) by Brian's wife and associates as someone who was taking advantage of Brian.(don't get me wrong: I like the "Imagination" album, as slickly produced as it is.)

As well as checking the band / associates personal collections for acetates,demos etc. i would really hope that a thorough search could be made of the sony (?) tape library for any multi tracks recorded at columbia studios. IIRC this is where the tape for California Girls on the box set came from. I've always wondered if this is where the Good Vibrations multi track is , probably in a box or on a shelf with I Ran vocals and the tapes for all the different Heroes versions. I remember someone saying this would cost a fair bit of money including tape storage charges so Capitol would only consider this if an official Smile product was planned.
Hope Alan and Mark have this one covered. Would Des Jones (do we know his real identity ? ) have anything or any leads ? He seemed to have heard things the rest of us weren't privy to.
My biggest hope for the box is the 5 / 6 minute Heroes from feb/march 67 and a couple of pre cantina versions - one with Great Shape/Barnyard and one incorporating the january comp reel sections.  However if there are tapes at Sony we could be in for a really major surprise.

The "Cal Girls" tapes were discovered at Columbia because Capitol specifically asked them to go look for Beach Boys stuff when prepping the 1993 box set. If any BB tapes remain at the old Columbia storage facility, it's because they're mis-named on the box.

I'm a fan of Imagination. I like the easy-listening vibe a lot more than the poorly produced GIOMH or the slightly cluttered TLOS. I like the Pepperish horns on Your Imagination. It's a very catchy album. I wonder if the multitrack masters of Imagination are still in the vaults? Ready for a 2048 50th anniversary celebration.

Anyway, this Smile...what's that all about?

Does anyone reckon any Smiley Smile stuff will show up on the set, or are we talking only up until Brian Scrapped Everything?

Thanks for your reply Andrew. That's seriously disappointing though. I was under the impression sony found Cal Girls and let capitol know they had it. I guess this means any missing tapes left at studios have been filed next to the missing Magnificent Ambersons reel. That is a real shame. Is there really no hope ? I'll be very interested to read post release (assuming it happens) where Alan and Mark looked and asked for tapes,acetates etc. I'm sure they will do their best.
If only the inside pop reels could miraculously appear. Oh well. I guess my only realistic hope is for acetates to be handed over for the project. C'mon Bruce - what's on your Heroes acetate ?  Now's the time to spill the beans. We've been crying over spilt milk for too long.
 

In a search for the missing "Good Vibrations" tapes, it is also important to consider where(at what studio) the single was mixed down.

It's always been stated that Mike Love objected to the "Over and over the crow cry uncovers the cornfield. Over and over, the thresher man covers the wheatfield" lyrics in "Cabinessence", but in 1966, Love did cooperate and sing them. It's Carl's solo parts that weren't recorded until 1968. I wonder if, in reality, it was Carl who was uncooperative at the 1966 vocal sessions for the song. Carl's death, and Mike Love's reluctance to write an autobiography will leave that question unanswered. Love has said that he wanted Van Dyke Parks to explain the lyrics' meaning, and Van Dyke has stated that he couldn't. Parks said "It's an American Gothic trip that Brian & I have been working on. If you don't like the lyrics, then throw them out."

You sound like you don't wanna offend anybody or that Joe Thomas might read this...I think we're all in the same thought about him and his schemes.  ;)

Given the vocals were recorded on the 8-track at Columbia, which was the only commercial 8-track in LA at the time, I think your question just answered itself. Also...

"I remember the time we had. It was at Columbia. I remember I had it right in the sack, I could just feel it when I dubbed it down, made the final mix... down to mono"

What California Girls tape are we talking about?

What was on there to be released on the GV box set? the vocals only?

[/quote] Joe Thomas....I don't think so. That self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music quickly became viewed(for reasons not entirely clear) by Brian's wife and associates as someone who was taking advantage of Brian.(don't get me wrong: I like the "Imagination" album, as slickly produced as it is.) [/quote]

Joe Thomas a "self-admitted non-fan of Brian's music"?  I thought it was Brian Wilson's wife who didn't know much at all about the Beach Boys when she met him. When did Thomas say that he was no fan of Brian's music? I thought the inclusion of Keep an Eye on Summer on Imagination was Thomas' idea.  Would a "non-fan" be familiar with this song?

Yes, the vocal multitracks included on the 5th CD of the 1993 box.

I think the thing about Joe Thomas not being a fan stems from the O'Hagan interview - IIRC, Sean says to Joe that Brian is a visionary pop artist who pushed forward the entirety of music, or something similarly well-meaning but hyperbolic, and Thomas replies 'Not the Brian Wilson I know.' The implication being that BW is just the guy who wrote Surfin' USA to him.

That Boyd post upthread about empty tape boxes breaks my heart.

When I first heard of SMiLE and read a lot of posts here I disliked Mike for fucking up the project - but then I realized he sang on A LOT of tracks - Bruce Johnston's interview in 'Brian Wilson - Songwriter' starts to put this into perspective. A lot of Beach Boys fans will still think Mike is full of sh*t, no matter what. There are a lot of (mis?)informed people out there.

Punkinhead - Information regarding the edited/mixed backing track to "The Child Is Father Of The Man" is from memory of having lived through the period and reading message boards like this one. As you can see from the Alan Boyd post that was quoted, Mr. Boyd has contributed a lot of information on-line as well as correcting misconceptions. Around the time of the ENDLESS HARMONY soundtrack release, Mr. Boyd commented that the "Child" backing track had been found (this was considered the most significant SMiLE-related discovery in years) and there was talk about it being included on EH. Later, when asked about unreleased material that might appear on the HAWTHORNE, CA collection, Mr. Boyd commented that "Child" was again under consideration. As Mr. Doe can attest to, the track exists (and may very well have been booted already) and I would be shocked if it didn't make the cut on the proposed SMiLE release.

A couple of other things: the bleed-though heard on the multi-tracks for "The Child Is The Father Of The Man" was simply another layer of chorus vocals, not something significantly different like a lead vocal on the verse or anything. Darian incorporated the bleed-though vocals into the version heard on BWPS.

The clarinet bleed-though was indeed from the "Look" multi-tracks which is where the clarinet line and verse melody came from on "Song For Children".

Finally, BWPS was a Warners release (on their subsidiary Nonesuch), so I doubt the upcoming Capitol release will incorporate any of it apart from acknowledging it in the liner notes.

Pardon me if this has been asked above, but did Darian have access to this unreleased CITFOTM backing track while he was helping assemble SMiLE? And thus, we have probably already heard it (through the Wondermints)?

Whoops, obviously it's not the same track - BWPS version is no where near 3 minutes long.

i think it was more jealousy over brian not using him than the music.

Good question. I'm certain Darian heard the track, but I'm not certain the '66 mix fit into the live "three movements" idea which was the starting point of BWPS. Even though I haven't heard it, I assume the '66 mix treats the song as its own separate identity, not as a link track. The BWPS version is shorter at 2:17 and we know that Darian (and Brian) specifically reworked the one portion of it to more comfortably lead into "Surf's Up", so I'd say the BWPS version is probably not an exact reproduction of the '66 mix although it may be close.

A few comments:

Teeter Totter Love could be included because it exists and others have heard it. No matter what the quality may be, after all this time it should be included as a "bonus track" for historical value.

One of the few pieces that hasn't been mentioned is a reel full of "I'm In Great Shape" sessions with Van Dyke, and this session tape was mentioned a few years ago by Alan Boyd himself. It's this kind of session material - un-edited - which is obviously not going to sell to the majority of fans but which fans like me who are into the studio scene would pay very good money for if it were offered for sale or download. Hint, hint.

Some of the sessions released to the general public could also shed some light on how involved Van Dyke was as a musician and not just as a wordsmith in the Tony Asher way.

Des Jones - Wasn't his big Smile coup something reported to be "'Do A Lot' with toothbrushing sound effects" which was on a reel from Columbia or something? There were reels of Columbia Byrds outtakes too, or so someone said there were. But I could be wrong. By the way all of that was on another public board almost 10 years ago, I guess some of the info being discussed never caught up. If it has been ten years since all of that, I wonder if that toothbrushing effects tape will make an appearance?

I dig the typewriters myself, very Ernie Kovacs... :)

Not to be a pessimist, but assuming this release even happens at all, I'll bet it's just a repackaging of already-released SMILE-era tracks plus a few alternate mixes and no more than a handful of actual rarities. I'm pretty sure that at this point we've already seen most of the best (most complete and produced) material released.

It's pretty close... but somehow it doesn't quite capture the wistful, yearning quality of the original (and bear in mind that saying this is someone who finds that section of BWPS incredibly moving, and who burst into tears at the premiere at this point).

I'd be opposed to the inclusion of that for two reasons: one, it's of the era, but nothing to do with Smile whatsoever... and two, Jasper's vocal makes Wild Man Fischer sound like Pavarotti.


As you say, that was a decade ago, and even at the time there were people who had the opinion that DJ was long on talk, short on proof. I could say any number of things concerning Smile material and probably get away with it, but I chose to stick with stuff that can be proven.  Aside from any other consideration, it prevents me looking like an idiot should it be disproven.  ;D

The great thing about being a pessimist is the not-inconsiderable pleasure you experience on being proven wrong.  ;D

I think Teeter Totter would be a neat thing for the curious to check out - anybody who has a copy of LLVS has the session photos, the session logs, the session sheets, etc but not the actual audio. Let it all hang out, I say, even if the vocal isn't very good. Add to that Denny's instrumental piece too, again documented/photographed but never heard. Bonus track material, for sure.

I understand sensitivities and privacy and all of that, but things like the "Des Jones" reels of tape, and concealing the identity of the keeper of the Inside Pop film footage...it leads to wild speculation, but obviously reasons of safety and privacy take over as well and some of those collectors don't want their information published. If they truly have the goods in their collections. In Des Jones' case, was it a put-on after all? Or do such tapes really exist?

Add to the wishlist the Jasper D. studio photos that never saw the release they were promised to buyers of the "portfolios". I'd *love* to see them as part of a Smile archive release.

For those listening: Please release the Jasper Smile photos.

False Barnyard came about because the tag to the cantina version of Heroes came out on a bootleg Smile LP and was falsely labelled Barnyard, because - well, it sounded like it could have been Barnyard.  Turns out the real Barnyard was later found and booted, so the original "Barnyard" became false Barnyard.  Ironically, the "false Barnyard" tag was included in Heroes while the "true Barnyard" was cut - probably to go into I'm In Great Shape, but that's another story.

I've heard the Carl live vocal rerecord of the "false Barnyard" tag, so it definitely exists.  As does the 3 minute Child.  The last was booted on Goodbye Surfing I believe (in poor quality), and I thought the Carl false Barnyard was on Secret Smile, although I may be wrong on that.

highly unlikely, but is there any chance Brian's camp will put out a special edition BWPS (complete with vocals-only/instrumentals-only tracks) around the time SMiLE 2011 hits the shelves?

I think (going from memory, as always, and it'll probably be wrong as it usually is) that it first surfaced on Long Lost Surf Songs... was it Vol 3?
And I think it sat there unnoticed for a few years after that disc's release until some sharp-eared, handsome, hyper intelligent young man noticed it. Understandable - the audio's not to hot really.  Still would be useful now to identify the source of that boot material.
Unfortunately the disc is locked away in a temporary box room while the decorators have-at the living room.

So, we're almost a week into this story... And a Smile release from Capitol is major freakin' news....

So, how is it that it has not yet been noticed by the likes of Billboard and Rollingstone.com???

Since nothing is official they have no reason to waste time reporting on it - I assume.

When they get more of a confirmation from Capital I think they'll start writing.

http://www.music-news.com/shownews.asp?H=Beach-Boys-Smile-to-be-released?&nItemID=39142 (http://www.music-news.com/shownews.asp?H=Beach-Boys-Smile-to-be-released?&nItemID=39142)

...and I sure hope that the reporting is better than found at that link! Not only do they not attribute Al's quotes to him (treating his responses as just part of a news release), but referring to BWPS as from a couple of years ago along with implying that tracks like "Good Vibrations", "Heroes & Villains" and "Surf's Up" leaked out is ridiculous.

Also, the idea being presented that this is the real Beach Boys version coming out strongly suggests that it will be a finished album. Folks are only going to be disappointed. It would be better to present the upcoming release as the original sessions which Brian Wilson replicated in order to present a finished album. Awkward but truthful.

It's a great example of why RollingStone and Billboard aren't reporting anything as of yet.

they'll wait for an official release i'm sure

You mean, IF you had it, it would be locked in that room, right?

You are talking about 'Barnshine', aren't you? I always thought that was Mike singing the lyrics. Unless this is something else I'm forgetting about. Cripes, starting to talk again about all these snippets is confusing!

Aren't the photos ruined? I thought that was part of the reason that 'BE' gave for not being able to get those out to people. Unless he was talking out of his ass and just decided to take the money and run, which is entirely possible.

I think you have to presume from the git-go, that anything BE says/has said( that's not info taken directly fom Capitol's archives) is a bald-faced lie.


As to the new Smile set; While not totally germane to the recordings, I'd like Capitol to include the original promo recording they did that says "We'll sell a million units in january".  Or is it that readily available somewhere? ( old-timers setting in, maybe)

After BWPS was released, Melinda posted on the blueboard about her frustration with Nonesuch's promotional effort, and said that the Nonesuch contract was for (I think) 7 or 8 years (I'm pretty sure that's how she posted it, not knowing offhand the exact number of years...but I'm sure others here can correct me).  If that's correct, then it is conceivable BWPS would be available for release in 2011 on another label (Capitol, perhaps???)   

Don't somehow see Capitol acquiring the rights to BWPS and then re-promote it this year. Suppress it, maybe.  ;D

Ok, so since I'm guessing that this will be a strictly 66/67 SMiLE compilation - how will they treat the song 'Surf's Up'? Without the finished coda? This is a part I'm a bit foggy on - Did Brian have the "A Childrens song...." lyrics conceived before or after he scrapped SMiLE? And if it was conceived before he scrapped it could they use the '71 version of 'Surf's Up' just to make the song more complete in the 2011 set?

I think it's important that the guys all promote this if they want it to sell. I think Mick Jagger's full-of-it, too, but he (& Keith) made himself pretty accessible for the Exile reissue (which was mainly packaged air IMHO) and probably really helped sell it.

Oh my god, what have I missed?

Is smile being released, can somebody fill me in

I missed this. Does someone claim to know who has the Inside Pop reels?

True!  But it did occur to me that maybe the BW camp would drive the bargain: OK, we'll approve a Smile package but only if BWPS is included (they did somehow get BW's version of "California Feeling" on "Beach Boys Classics").  I know, highly unlikely!

That version of California is not THE version of California Feeling that everyone wants to hear that Brian recorded.

Just read an Article.

Hop this happens, wow  ;D

I know, but my point was that they got BRI to OK a then-recent Brian Wilson solo recording on a Beach Boys release (when there was already a BB version of the same song in the archives, as well as a vintage 1974 Brian demo).

By the way, it occured to me that there is another reason why Capitol wouldn't want the compiler or engineer of the "Smile" compilation interviewed so early, or want the tracklisting revealed: If there is nothing in the new compilation that fans(or bootleggers) don't already have, then bootleggers(whether actual silver disc manufacturers or merely download websites) would be able to create the same collection, before Capitol could get their version to stores & online dealers.
                                   Remember: years ago Mike Love explained the absence of an official "Smile" CD, by saying "You've got it all already."

I gotta admit, I have been into this SMiLE business for quite a while now, but I have no idea what "False Barnyard", "Barnshine", and "Air Dada" are. Or "All Day" for that matter. Could somebody explain or Possibly Make it so I finally knew what the sh*t these parts are supposed to be. I'm so confused on all this.

In other news, while at first I hoped they would somehow be able to present SMiLE in some kind of "finished" way, I realized that probably isn't going to happen. So I figured they should treat it like Dylan's The Basement Tapes and maybe do an album called The SMiLE Sessions which should count as an album in The Beach Boys canon, featuring the best possible versions of every single song, with Brian's approval of course. So if Brian feels the Smiley Smile version is the essential take of "H&V" for SMiLE then so be it. Same with the '71 "Surf's Up", and so on.  Then in a separate "deluxe" treatment give us all other valuable outtakes and alternates.

I guess what I mean is I just want this to be a concise collection for the public to get the essence of SMiLE, but also a larger collection for us Smiley Smiler's to feast upon. I know I already wrote something like this, but yeah.

Oh who knows. Let's wait and see.

If they have some really great material waiting to be heard, if they had recovered the inside pop tapes, lost acetates, or missing tapes I'm sure anything worthwhile on them would appear on this compilation. Even if it's not a sessions collection it would seem odd if any of this lost material was recovered it wouldn't be released on a special SMiLE themed 50th anniversary release. There doesn't seem to be any better time to release that stuff so if it exists I don't think it would be held back. Either way I think this release will confirm the status of all the rumored material once and for all.

"All Day"(that title was announced by the engineer) is a bunch of very rough attempts at the "Love to Say Da Da" tune that never went past being backing track rehearsals(rehearsals that happened to be recorded). We're all happy when another fragment, another piece of the puzzle, another clue to the mystery, falls into the hands of collectors, but unless the compiler & engineer of Capitol's new collection find something significant, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, clutching at straws, or whatever expression you choose. After listening to the various unofficial releases(and my homemade 2-CD collection of the best stuff) for years, I had pretty much given "Smile" listening(including Brian's 2004 version) a rest, when Al Jardine's announcement re-awakened my interest in "Smile". Remember:this was an attempt to record a (Likely) 38 to 40 minute pop music album for release on a 1960's vinyl record. The amount of music that exists, once existed, could possibly be located, or Brian Wilson intended to create, is not infinite.
                                    Let's hope that 6 months or so of "Smile" debate, discussion, analysis & speculation doesn't get us all burnt out by the time that Capitol's product arrives.

You forgot to add that it's Brian solo on piano. It's like when he recorded the Harpsichord for "Wonderful", many takes were needed until he got it, because he obviously didn't like homework. An early version of "Dada" or "Cool, Cool, Water".

We really need an index for this stuff...I just gave myself a headache going through bootlegs looking for All Day.  I didn't want to ask because I knew I had it somewhere.  Ugh.  Finally found it on Heroes and Villains Sessions volume 2.

....and it's also on "Psychedelic Sounds".

Ah, yeah it is.  I wouldn't have even thought to look on there.  I only remembered the skits and chants being on that one.  We need an index!

So is "Air Dada" = "All Day"?

And still, what is "Barnshine" and "False Barnyard"?

Barnshine - the ho-down fade of H&V (which was originally the third part of "Old Master Painter/'Sunshine"). On one version of this fragment, vocals can be (barely) heard featuring "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics.

False Barnyard - same ho-down fade thing as mentioned above, sans extra vocals. Named so because it  was erroneously labeled "Barnyard" on many of the old boots.

Yep.  And Air Dada is the version of the second section of Love to Say Dada found on Secret Smile and The Big Grin.  Maybe other boots as well?  Can't remember offhand.

For old time sake how about a remastered version of "Here Come de Honey Dew Man".  I spent quite a bit of time contemplating that one as Holidays.

It was an inspired bit of hoaxery. ;)  Ahh, early Smile bootleg memories....

Yup, I liked it so much I went out and bought Miles D's Porgy and Bess...

If they're going to include wacky semi-related bonus tracks, how about the full version of Alan Boyd's Geronimo Leaps song?  With a disclaimer, naturally. :lol

Apparently so, but no one is talking. And it was suggested but not confirmed if I remember, that those reels are *video only* and the audio tracks, which would have been separate perhaps as filmed by CBS News at that time, are not with the video. Which means it could be a stack of silent film.

If I remember, again, there were official efforts to contact and get the film from the collector but it failed. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I think people who have posted on this board were involved.

Many takes were needed because he played with feel, and he wanted a perfect feel, as we've heard before. That's why his recordings from 66-67 have a bit more humanity than the BWPS versions, at least to my ears.

When recording anything in the studio, taking dozens of takes to perfect an 8 bar solo, let's use as an example, is pretty much the way it works. Did Elvis do his homework when he did upwards of 50 takes on a simple song on some of his early RCA sessions, or was he going for the perfect one? ;D

And the Beach Boys were one of the few super groups of the time who were able/allowed as long as they wanted as often as they wanted in the studio to get-the-perfect-take/do-their-homework-in-the-studio. No producer pushing to get 3 or 4 songs finished in a single 3 hour session.

Jasper will know better but I thought it had come down to possibly the films had been routinely discarded years back by CBS. The sound was recorded separately but my memory is it was on film instead of video. Maybe not, anyway Jasper will know what is knowable.

Nope, you're entirely correct.

Some of what I remember is what I was told at the time, that after the discussions and the discoveries of Oppenheim's film notes and all of that stuff, that someone working in an official capacity, and that could have been Alan Boyd, was contacted and attempts were made to contact the collector who *apparently* had the reels of Inside Pop film. Do I remember correctly that person wanted an unrealistic sum of money for the film, and the whole thing ended there? Or was that something else?

The frustrating thing was that the whole thing kind of stopped dead, in spite of all of the excitement and interest being generated online. I don't recall much of a follow-up, other than where it is now which is basically nowhere. It was similar to when someone who was supposedly Michael Vosse logged onto the Smile Shop, and was taking questions, but then some board drama erupted and the whole thing turned into chaos. Whether it was Vosse or not, it was kind of cool to get caught up in it, like the premiere of Smile at RFH when reports were coming in from those at the show.

I'm the person who located the transcripts of all the "Inside Pop" film reels through the internet (God, I feel important now!).
And guitarfool2002 was great to take the time to look through them at New York University, find the Beach Boys notes + copy them.
But the reels were never discovered! Or am I missing something? I certainly hope so.

Interesting post, I'm not sure how to take it!

Just to set the record straight, I was not the one who found the transcripts at NYU and never claimed to be, but I remember who did on the Smile Shop, that's about all! All I ever did was what several others did at the time and tried to translate Oppenheim's notes and abbreviations into something that made sense to Smile, and I also had conversations with a few folks who were taking it to the next step in the process of actually locating the reels.

Whatever I wrote about contacting a collector is what I remember hearing at the time through the grapevine, which would suggest the tapes/films had been located.

Oh, sorry for the unjustified roses. I think I'm getting senile. But I remember the guy's name: It's Dan!

It was Dan Lega who did the leg work in the Oppenheim archive. The last I heard was from the IP soundman who had asked a contact he still had and he was told that it was believed the materials had been discarded by CBS. Maybe a dumpster diver claimed them or maybe they are still just sitting in storage somewhere.

That was actually Michael Vosse posting on this board using the moniker "nemo". Did anybody save those posts?

i always forget I could prolly just type in Barnshine or False Barnyard on YouTube and i'll be able to hear what version/mix/take that's being discussed.  ::)

I remember reading that All Day was actually recorded after Love To Say Dada, which I always found surprising. So, is that not the case?

Also, wasn't All Day found on a Heroes reel and is therefore potentially related to Heroes?


I remember reading those Vosse posts in a Smile shop archive. They were fascinating although I remember him being quite bemused that people were so obsessed with the music still.

Surely somebody saved that thread??!!

Can't one of the mods simply go back and pull up the thread, or his posts, and repost them here?

When I checked them out they were archived from The Smile Shop, which this obviously used to be. There was quite a bit that was accessible including the Vosse Fusion article, but I don't think it's up anymore. I'm sure somebody here has probably saved that stuff. I'd sure like to read through the Vosse/Nemo posts if anybody cares to re - up them? Thanks in advcance!

That was a neat time for the Smile Shop, I remember working on an album project the week Vosse was posting and I couldn't wait to log in and read what was going on. Than, literally, some kind of chaos erupted and I think it was over.


I'll say this as a direct plea, on this board right now to clear it up - I think the Oppenheim film information was sorted out and forwarded to Alan Boyd or someone working with him at that time who could have the ability to acquire the film or copies of that film. He or an associate of his can answer the question yes or no of whether or not they contacted the collector who may or may not have had the collection of Inside Pop film. That would ultimately answer the question of whether the film exists, which I'll say again and which it seems has been backed up, that something does exist.

Would be lovely to see the smile footage in question.

Like most here, I'm not holding out too much hope for anything 'new' from this potential Smile release. I suspect it will be most likely less than we already have on all the separate boots.

Didn't aeszsche, who began working with Alan Boyd, confirm that there were no extra Smile outtakes in the vaults beyond some sort of free jazz noodling from one of the sessions, and this was only 6 months or so ago? Has Aeszsche (sorry can never spell that correctly) posted here in a while? That in itself might be quite telling.

This interesting piece of vault info was reported in early 2005:

The 8 track tape with with the "I'm In Great Shape" track actually has about 20 takes on it - all playing the same thing - "fluttertone" and all, some with celeste, some with piano, some with a piano with the strings taped. I think three takes were leadered, and one (with taped strings) has a bass overdub. The tape is labeled simply "Brian and Van Dyke" with a little notation on the back saying "I'm In Great Shape." Couldn't say for sure whether that's a vintage notation or not.


This means there are extra Smile outtakes we haven't heard. :)

No, 'All Day' was an early, early version done by Brian on piano in Jan or Feb. 

couldn't find that specific topic, but searching on "Oppenheim" one gets some interesting results:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1206.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2833.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,134.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1831.25.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2618.msg49804.html#msg49804
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,724.msg20600.html#msg20600

IIRC Alan Boyd mentioned finding the tracking session for the 1/67 DW "I Don't Know" session.

I only log into this board occasionally these days... and look what I missed since I was last here at the end of January! Bloomin' Typical... ;)

Having also frequented various BB Internet boards over the last 16 years - including the original Cabinessence board, the Green Board, the blue 'American Band' board, and the various overlapping versions of the Smile Shop - I am amazed at this news, and also quite heartened to see some of the old names back. Mr Roger Ryan, Mr Cameron Mott, I think we first discussed SMiLE bootlegs in 1995 on Cabinessence. A pleasure to see you back, good sirs! Although in truth, perhaps you never went away, and it was I that disappeared... although not without writing the odd few interesting things on the way. I have honestly never had so much fun posting on an Internet discussion board as I did when I got home from Brian's '04 SMiLE premiere, and tried to make sense of what I'd just heard and seen on-line with everyone asking questions. And the same sense of fun pervaded everything I wrote subsequently...

I really hope Johns Hunt and Lane know about this, and that it makes them happy.

Whatever we eventually get from Capitol, and whenever we get it, it cannot fail to be interesting. If they merely release the old 88 mixes and edits in decent quality because that's all that can now be found, I will buy it. If there's more - and who really knows whether there will be? - I will buy that too. I don't think anyone who has been interested in this music for so long can really lose with this release. The esteemed Mr Doe is undoubtedly right that there will be disappointments along the way, and there will almost certainly be a vocal group of The Disappointed around here. But I will not be one of them...

...I will be at the door of a large record shop waiting for them to open up when the day comes, ready to buy - well, whatever it turns out to be - and with however much money is needed to buy it burning a hole in my hot, clenched fist. What other music can you say that about?

Wow; we live in interesting times. Again!

MattB

I looked at those links, and there are so many snippets and sections and re-records, etc. that I've forgotten about, or forgotten what they're called-Good Lord my head hurts.

The 2 Jo(h)ns 2 know, and they are content.

Thanks - I didn't know this. As I understand it, only 3 or 4 of these takes have been booted?

and thanks for this info! Never made sense to me that All Day would be a later take when it was obviously less polished. Does have a groovy vibe to it with the bird whistles and all. My kids love this one shouting "Bird!" every time the whistles go.

Great post!

Mr Doe wrote:

>The 2 Jo(h)ns do know, and are content.

Thanks Andrew, good to know! And *I* dug the recent River Song reference, though I'll draw the line at calling anyone 'sweetie'... ;) [EDIT: oh, sorry, that was Wee Helper making with the River Song references, not you. D'oh!]

Some people have expressed surprise that there are still unbooted SMiLE sessions. I don't think that has been seriously in doubt for years. The question is whether those sessions are available to Messrs Boyd and Linett so that they could potentially now be released officially, or whether they're *only* still in the hands of the shadowy 'collectors'!

Off the top of my head, I seem to remember Mark Linett saying, way, way back in the 90s on one of these boards (or I *think* it was - but it's a sure sign that you know far too much about a subject when you've forgotten more about it than you can still remember...!) that the mix of Vega-Tables on the 93 GV box set just came from tapes representing just *one* day's work on the song. I always took that to mean that there were tapes of other days' work on the song that weren't used to produce that mix, and that Mark had heard those but decided not to use them to produce the box set mix.

Although, of course, Mark never ACTUALLY said that, so I'm guilty of extrapolating information when it may not be correct to do so. And everyone interested in SMiLE has done that at one time or another, right? ;)

There are loads of other things that we know must be out there, though. Bicycle Rider has already alluded to the actual takes of the remade False Barnyard. Years ago, I heard a tape (a cassette, not a reel) with just the between-takes chatter of that session (the takes themselves had been edited out), and as BR says, the full sessions must be 'out there'. The full 20-odd recorded take history of IIGS has also been mentioned on this thread, but as far as I know, that isn't circulating. (Not that I'd know if it was, before you ask - I've *never* been in any kind of 'inner circle' of traders, and, to be honest, preferred to stay that way, and clear of all the crazy politics! Just a man reading and writing stuff occasionally).

So the stuff is out there... but whether it will be released in the near future is as moot as ever, I would have thought...!

MattB

Matt,
I remember well your detailed posts about the Smile debut in Feb 2004.  That was an exciting time on the old Smile Shop board.  Here in California, it was mid-afternoon as reports trickled in from the first concert...  Holidays with lyrics!  Look with lyrics!  Unbelievable stuff... Everyone reading the board was blown away.  No one had really known what to expect.  In the days leading up to the first concert, there had been rumors that the music would be in movements, but no one around here knew exactly which songs had made the cut, let alone specific details about lyrics and playing order.

If Capitol's Smile 2011 really happens, I imagine things will be a bit different.  This time, things will likely unfold gradually, like they did with other major archival releases like the Good Vibrations 30 years box and the Pet Sounds Sessions.  First, there will be rumors about the overall nature of the package.  At some point, Capitol will have to issue a press release that gives some idea of what to expect.  A track listing will surface.  Copies will probably leak out to insiders or members of the media.  And then advance reviews will start appearing.   It'll still be a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to it, but nothing will likely top the time everything came down to a single day in 2004. 

Well...........I hope the new Smile release includes the early version of Vegetables with Van Dyke's lyrics "Tripped on a cornucopia, stripped the stalk green, and I hope ya like me most of all my favorite vegetable".

And what would a Smile Sessions set be without "George Fell Into His French Horn"? Or maybe "Brian talks about Smog"? Or........................OK, maybe not.

I'm by normal standards educated on smile, know the very basics, but you guys are just incredible, this is a brilliant thread.

If this release happens I just hope it's a massive box set with everything on it.

I wonder how they are going to do it, should be very interesting.

Matt B., I just wanted to chime in and say that night was about as close as a group of people could ever expect to be around a shared experience via a message board. I'll never forget waiting to read the next post, and my mind being blown as your reports started coming in. I just wanted to thank you for your reporting that night, I think I put everything else aside for a few hours and joined in the fun, it was the next best thing to being there, and of course when I finally heard the tapes of that night the tears rolled down.

Cheers!

I heard that "False Barnyard" material as well, and always wondered if the actual takes were eventually wiped or taped over but someone ran a journal reel, and that reel preserved the chatter between takes. Why else would it be edited that way?

BWPS is what turned me into a hardcore BB fan. I remember knowing nothing about SMiLE, I think I picked up the record on buzz alone and it was the most bizarre music I had ever heard. I remember listening to that cd every time I drove anywhere for about a year. But once I read the liner notes to that I've been hooked. I think we tend to forget how great BWPS was, it seems less significant in the years since as I learn more about the original project, but looking back on it, it was a really great release.

I kind of envy you old-timers, building up anticipation over decades.

Fishmonk wrote:

>I kind of envy you old-timers, building up anticipation over decades.

Hey, I always feel like a newcomer here. I mean, I only got interested in Brian and the Beach Boys as a result of the Don Was 'I Just Wasn't Made For These Times' documentary. Before that, I knew ZIP about SMiLE.

And then I check the calendar, and I realise that film was nearly FIFTEEN YEARS ago. How'd that happen?  :o

But I expect everyone feels that way. Even some of the guys here who could have heard the original 'we're sure to sell a million units...' message when it was fresh and new!

I still think Brian's SMiLE, live AND recorded, was amazing. I could not be-LIEVE some of the people around and about who moaned about pianos and digital recording destroying the music. The original 66-67 music is amazing. The 2004 recordings and arrangements are, in my opinion, amazing too (because IT'S THE SAME MUSIC, lovingly arranged and recreated by the original artists and a group of people who worked VERY hard to make it as close as humanly possible to the original, 37 years on). So why not embrace both? You'll have a much nicer time...!

Enough of that, though, as that argument has been done to death...!

Mr GF2002 (is it Craig, I forget...?) and juggler, thanks for your words about the posting on February 20th, 2004. It was a blast, but only because the people here were such fun to discuss the concert with! Regarding the False Barnyard re-record session... didn't Bicycle Rider say upthread that he HAD heard (but did not possess) the COMPLETE session, as opposed to just the between-takes chat that we have heard at some point on our long journeys through this music?

MattB

We have some former Capitol salesmen registered here ?  I never knew...  :)

Sorry Matt, me displaying the effects of insufficient tea first thing: said 'advert' was actually a track on an in-house Capitol album priming the company's salesmen on the upcoming January 1967 releases - not a radio ad as was originally thought.

With the one known existing copy residing in a UK collector's house...

Thanks Andrew. I did know about it being an internal sales promo at one point, but like I said above, you know you've known a lot about a subject when you've forgotten more than you still know - if that sentence can *possibly* make any sense! Wasn't that why you did your web site - to keep all of this stuff in a location whence it was harder to be forgotten than unreliable organic grey matter?

Anyway, what I should have said was... there do seem to be people on here who would have been old enough to hear that announcement — if, of course, they'd been in the right place at the right time (ie. on Capitol's sales team).

Although, as far as I know, the famous (and, of course, absolutely NON-imaginary) Dick Reising has never actually signed up here... ;)

I should have had MY tea before attempting such conjectural subjunctive intentionals (memorably summarised by my grammar tutor as 'woulda coulda shouldas'), too.

Anyway, back to the usual programme of SMiLE guesswork and misinformed speculation. What IS this CD or set - IF it eventually exists - going to have on it?

MattB

If so, it would be fairly conclusive proof of an afterlife. 

Not to mention a celestial www. ;D

I haven't read this entire thread, but has there been an actual official announcement about *any* kind of significant release or are we just going by Al Jardine's little tease? 

We're going by the fact that when contacted by the interviewer for further details, Capitol declined to supply them. Note, they didn't deny what Alan said. I'm guessing Alan jumped the gun on an official announcement. I'm also guessing there are a lot of unhappy folk at the Tower right now.

They needn't be that unhappy. It ain't gonna cost them any sales.

What they might have to do though is tighten security as I'm sure a few folk will be curious about what outtakes etc they might be able to snaffle and put out on the black market!

That was a needed reality check - for now we're going mostly on Al Jardine's word in an interview, minus the official confirmation. Better than nothing, but still...

An interesting point to consider: Despite all of the speculation on where they may have been, where exactly ARE the Smile multi-track tapes in 2011? I didn't think Capitol owned any parts of the actual master tapes, but rather whatever mixes Brian or whoever gave to them to release. Even that infamous shot of the Beach Boys tape library showing Smile titles on the labels - those boxes of reels were not at Capitol when that photo was taken.

The recordings from "Pet Sounds" onwards are owned by Brother Records,and they are under a long-term license to Capitol. The settlement of a 1967 lawsuit(Brother vs.Capitol) gave Brother the ownership from "Pet Sounds" onwards.

The released masters, yes. The ownership of the unreleased material is slightly more complex, however Smile is pretty straightforward - Capitol bankrolled the sessions, they own the tapes.

I wonder who will be writing the "liner notes" for whatever the release turns out to be?

How would that have affected their Reprise deal in the 70's?  They were supposed to supply Smile as part of that agreement, so how would that have been possible if Capitol still owned it?

Damn good point, and one I've obviously not considered.

Esp as they worked on Surf's Up using 66/67 tapes, for the 71 release.  Interesting...

Drat, and double drat. Muttley !!!

I'm sure it was pretty simple:  even though Capitol bankrolled the sessions for Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, SMiLE, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and 20/20, the rights to those all went to Brother once the Capitol contract was up, probably as part of the settlement of the 1967 lawsuit..  Hence Warners was able to re-release all the previously released stuff mentioned above, and hoped to release SMiLE, via their distribution deal with Brother.  However...whomever wrote that deal apparently forgot to include Break Away, and that's how Capitol was able to include it on Spirit Of America. 

Someone posted this at the Steve Hoffman forum. It's new to me. Can anyone confirm?

Also, the raw footage for the Leonard Bernstein TV special was located several years ago. The film elements for all the footage shot for the Leonard Bernstein Special, ended up in a film library in (of all places) Germany, complete with directors logs. That was found about 5 years back, requests to copy: granted, and passed onto Capitol.

whoa what?????????????????!!!
That's major news if it's true, is it confirmed at all?

Why copy for Capitol ?  Doesn't make sense - CBS, yes.  I'm getting a funny feeling this is a Chinese whispers version of the searching 'we' did a while back. Could be wrong, but it's odd that it's not surfaced until now. Is this a recent post on Hoffman ?

Posted last night. See post 613: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=6233926&highlight=germany#post6233926 (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=6233926&highlight=germany#post6233926)

As soon as I saw it I thought, "gotta post this over at Smiley Smile for the straight dope."  ^-^

I just read it, and I'm thinking that it's just a mistake that the poster made. Over the years, there have been so many things we've heard and then forgotten it starts to all blend together in your head! I think that he's probably 'remembering' the directors notes that were found describing what was filmed.

This was my thought too, it just sounds way to good to be true. But we can still dream can't we?

I've weighed in with my considered opinion: let's see what ripples ensue.

Why doesn't someone ask the poster for more detail or invite him over here?

Phase Two.  :)

It is my earnest hope to be proven wrong in this instance... but something just feels wrong.

I agree.  This has already pretty much been debunked over there, linking to a post made by Alan Boyd here in late 2006 stating that the footage had not been found.  I'd love to find out otherwise, but the available evidence says no.

I haven't been to the other board, I don't know the context or anything but you know....

Wouldn't Boyd or any of the other Honored Guests have chimed in here with news of obtaining what is basically the Holy Grail of SMiLE/BB artifacts?

You would think but there are two issues, the discovery and the delivery. It may be discovered but not delivered to Capitol.

It's pretty sketch but it don't hurt [or cost anything] to check it out.

What a bombshell that would be, but I'm with Ebb and Flow here - if true, I can't imagine that such news wouldn't be conveyed by someone like Alan Boyd, or that we wouldn't hear a thing about it for several years after it actually occurred.

Then again no one (until Al) had spilled the beans about this whole summer Capitol Smile album until now, so you never know..... But I have a feeling that this isn't the case.

Also, I thought that there was a possibility that the film was possibly found with Directors notes, but that the audio was most likely gone, making the found film statement correct but a whole lot less exciting.

Reading that thread on the Hoffman board was like drinking a Bud Light after sipping cognac. ;D

Nah, I think we're more like drinking diet coke vs regular coke.

I actually had to check the date on some of those posts to see if they were recent or dated 2004. Interesting to see some old names from the past, too.

Duvel vs. Natty Light :)

Since we are talking about other sites, I have to say, some of those dudes in "The Record Room" think they are like the cool kids in school, concerning The Beach Boys and this board. Like the people who post here are dumbasses or something, and that they are like sooooo past that stupid SMiLE album, man.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the vocal sessions from Good Vibrations were in that same archive in Germany.

I didn't know there were any other websites besides this one, but I'm glad this is the one I found because jeeze that record room one is depressing.

Maybe that poster was talking about the actual cut of the film that was broadcast, giving the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise it's mixing in what seems to be several different parts of the Inside Pop outtake saga into one story, including one part that most likely hasn't happened. Unless it was a better print of the original broadcast being described.

I wonder if I should have oatmeal or eggs......

Regular milk or skim milk?

Beatles or Beach Boys



oops wrong thread! ;)

Oh Beatles definitely man, they did that sgt. peppers thing, that was real groovy of them.

Road trip, anybody?  ;D

Why Capitol indeed? The BBs weren't the only artists featured in that documentary; in fact BW's SU perf was only a small fraction of it. Presumably the outtakes featured many others bands' intimate moments (ie, rows) too. Unless the raw footage was located specifically for the purpose of a BBs release/product/project, there'd be plenty of other labels lusting after them... or not.

Why only copy them for Capitol? As others have speculated, it's probably several rumours being combined into another.

Well, as I am resident in Germany, I will offer my time to physically go to the archive/library in question and request a preview copy. I will use the backing of one of Germany's largest TV networks to do so. I propose the poster of the thread put up or shut-up with regards to the CBS film outtakes.

Don't give up hope... "lost" stuff turns up all the time. Just think about how many times ever-more complete copies of "Metropolis" have turned up, all over the world, in the last few decades.

Me, I'm still holding out for "Terri She Needs Me" from the BW sessions.  :-\

Well, even if the footage from the documentary is silent, that doesn't mean someone won't release it:

http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-London-1966/dp/B000EQ5SFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297431412&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-London-1966/dp/B000EQ5SFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297431412&sr=8-1)

Nahh - they drink Kool-Aid over there...  :ohyeah

Ha!  ;)

I had a dream this was released last night  ;D

Back in 1978, I had a dream SMiLE was released.
Truthfully!

I miss Ian.

Yeah, isn't the new/lost cut coming out this year? with stuff that hasn't been seen since the original premiere?

You missed it! It was last year.

It played the arthouse cinema circuit, Turner Classic Movies and now it's here:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Metropolis-Blu-ray-Brigitte-Helm/dp/B0040QYROK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297616771&sr=8-1

Heck, we even discussed it on this board. Despite the ragged quality of the lost 25 minutes, the additional footage really helps to make the film more coherent and enjoyable.

In regards to the INSIDE POP footage: the disadvantage of finding it is that it was never intended for release. Once the program was edited together and shown in April '67, the material not used would have been viewed as having little value. Once a film actually gets released, there is a much higher probability that it will survive somewhere which is why the METROPOLIS footage was found. The excised INSIDE POP footage did not see a release, so the chances of survival drop considerably.

not sure this will work, but somebody just posted the Fire music video with the band on brian's facebook.  has this been around openly??

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=590333984303&oid=34250497240

Not Brian's Facebook - Fans of Brian Wilson...  :)

And... that's the official "GV" promo - clearly recall seeing it on Top Of The Pops back in 1966.

Near the end, does anybody know who the guy is holding a movie camera?

Could be David Anderle... but to be entirely honest, no idea.

I don't know either but I wonder if it could be the mysterious Bob Gordon/Gordan? That looks like a....uhh...I forget what you call those cameras, but a still camera instead of a movie camera to me.

Was going to say Hasselblad, but I could well be wrong...

...and Elvis Costello sports one on 'This Year's Model'. Well, he's a bit of a lunatic... ;)

Probably so, but I was trying to thinking the type of camera instead of the brand. The only one I ever used was probably a No-name-o.

Oh, I believe it's a 6 x 6" roll film camera. For professional use. Hasselblad and Zenza Bronica were prominent brands, still are. Don't know if Leica had one, they were famous for their range-finder cameras (e.g. the M6).

Can someone please post this somewhere other than Facebook? I'm not able to view it - much appreciated!

Looks like someone's back tracking furiously - http://wcbsfm.radio.com/2011/02/14/al-jardine-says-the-smile-isnt-quite-ready/ (http://wcbsfm.radio.com/2011/02/14/al-jardine-says-the-smile-isnt-quite-ready/).

And that, I'd say, is why asking anyone except the principals about Smile is something of a waste of time. Not that it isn't anyway, but you get my point...  ;D

good lord.

weird how if Mike, Bruce and Al were to record some new vocals, they wouldn't be that bad with the way their vocals sound...now if there's new lyrics written, that's a different story.

If they release a smile without Brian, is that gonna upset Brian?

Good lord indeed...

Recording new vocals on the original tracks would be blasphemy, I have no other word for it.

Well, it was an interesting two weeks of "what-ifs", now back to the reality of no summer Smile release. 

Erk!  ???

That snippet gives even less info than the original source interview.  No context.  No hint as to what else was discussed, whether the chat took place on a phone or a bus, under a bar table, on a whale watching trip ... nadda.  Author or the original breaking SMiLE news Jeremy at least confirmed that he ran the original news past those who would know.

What was the question asked for this latest piece?

Interviewer: "Hey Al, how's the re-re-re-re-recording of additional overdubs for the re-re-remixed Postcard from California" Purple Chick re-re-re-remaster going?

Jardine: "I don’t know if we even have enough parts to put it together or not. May have to record some more.”

Veeeeery frustrating.

His original quote, in Jeremy's article of Feb 3?

"I don’t have many details on it, although we didn't do any new recording."

Raise your hand if you think Al spoke too soon about an official Smile release:

(http://scatts.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/old-classroom.jpg?w=400&h=308)

Where did this initial information come from that Alan Boyd and Linett are assembling this project?

If it is good information, we shouldn't discredit this project altogether based on Al's supposed new words.

Agreed.

The latest report is weaker.

Thought it seemed too good to be true...

Pssshhhhh, I for one can't wait to hear Alec Baldwin narrating Postcard-Style "She belongs there.....left in her liberty...........never know as......a non-believer" over the 'Wonderful' instrumental.

How depressing.

son of a bitch.

Great Al.......  ::)

A red herring, perhaps? Misdirection?

Jeez. Well. Where did this Linett and Boyd info come from? If that info is indeed correct, I believe we'll still get it.

As far this whole thing concerning vocals, I find it extremely hard to believe that they will add new vocals. Would they make "Dada" into "Blue Hawaii", "Look" into "Song for Children", etc? I highly doubt this will happen. And sure as sh*t don't want a re-recorded lead by Jardine in his 'aww-schucks" voice on something like "Surf's Up".

I highly doubt there will be new vocals. I think Al is a bit thick. I'm sure this will be just what they recorded from 1966 to 1971.

I really hope this project is still happening.

As it turns out, Al Jardine perpetrated a hoax, and he has now retracted it.  "Smile" fans, here's something to cheer you up. Check out www.bigozine2.com(at least for the next week)

Typical.

Al, of all people (apart from Mike, Brian, Bruce, Alan Boyd, Mark Linett...and most serious Beach Boys fans), should know that the original SMiLE could not possibly be presented as a completed album. This "well, I guess it won't come out because there are still things that need to be recorded" is pure insanity and I can't believe the quotes are accurate.

Well just as, we got confirmation that Boyd and Linett were indeed working on the tapes, hopefully we will get confirmation one way or the other regarding this project.

are you referencing the Sweet Insanity article?

You want my take ?  Someone took him outside, shook him a little, maybe slapped him upside the head once or twice and told him "go and recant what you said, OK, and keep your damn mouth shut in future, and in the meantime we'll carry on as if you'd not said anything and get it ready."

That's my take.  ;D

He's referring to the SMiLE fan mix he has put together that can be found in the left-hand column about half-way down the page.

Phil - I didn't realize you wrote for ICE magazine; I surely miss that very fine publication!

I was an information contributor for "ICE" for 13 years(1991-2004), though, in that time, I only wrote one actual article. "ICE" publisher Pete Howard now has a new business selling vintage concert posters & memorabilia.

With fewer and fewer record stores in existence, and today's teenagers having no interest in buying music on a manufactured disc, the music industry is headed downhill towards extinction like a runaway locomotive. Those who are hoarding classic rock outtakes don't have much time left to market them. When even the notoriously anti-outtakes "Pink Floyd" are working on an outtakes project(and they are, according to drummer Nick Mason), the music industry's days are obviously numbered. The time to make money on 1960's & 1970's outtakes is now or never.

Well, this is interesting news.  As I reported in the initial interview that got the SMILE debate going once again, it's coming out.  About a week ago I mentioned on here that Capitol Records told me they weren't comfortable in allowing Boyd/Linett to speak with me about any additional SMILE details.  

That is still true.  And yes, I'm still standing by the original story, as I didn't prompt Al about SMILE, he just said it when I mentioned  all the unreleased material still inside their vault.  I wanted to talk more, but he said he had to go.  What Andrew said about the higher ups getting mad with Al sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Mr. Cohen, may I ask where you heard about this Floyd outtake project? I would love to see them FINALLY release "Vegetable Man", probably my favorite Syd/Pink Floyd song.

       I agree with Andrew, it sounds like someone told Al to retract the statement, much like Mike was told to retract the statement that there was going to be a 50th year reunion tour, only to be followed up soon by a statement from all parties that there probably would be a 50th year reunion tour.  My guess is Al was correct with his first statement, and that plans are afoot to produce The Beach Boys' SMiLE this summer.  However, the powers that be don't want it known until they're good and ready to make an official statement.


            Love and merci,   Dan Lega

Like Fredo Corleone from The Godfather.

I smell Red Herring. ;D

I'll wait for the summer when any project, including a greatest hits package, is more likely. ;)

Never understood why that and "Scream Thy Last Scream" weren't included on the latest Syd comp, at least as a bonus download.  Still, that's what YouTube's for.

Nick Mason spoke about an archival project, albeit before Pink Floyd renewed their license to EMI for the group-owned recordings(1974 onward). He said that there were few unreleased tracks, but mentioned an alternate version of "Wish You Were Here" with violinist Stephane Grapelli(funny, he Is on the released version, albeit barely audible and uncredited). I'll look into it and find where the quote was. Mason described the project as the group's final physical product.

Answer: because although Syd wrote it, 90% of the lead vocal on "Scream Thy Last Scream" is by Nick Mason. Mason also did some of the singing on "Vegetable Man", and he apparently regrets his short-lived attempt to be a singer.

Ugh... how many times have we been promised Smile  ::)

Yeah.  I think this is just a bit of damage control on Al's part, but if they do any new recording I am out on this.  No way.

http://smilealbum.tripod.com/mikelovesmilelive.htm

I had pretty much gotten burnt out on listening to "Smile", whether it is Brian's 2004 version or my homemade 2-CD compilation of The Beach Boys' 1966/67 versions, but I had recently resumed listening to "Smile" again, in the aftermath of the recent rumors; rumors that were ultimately a hoax. Now, the "Smile" discs go back onto the shelf.
                                        Despite the undeniable quality of songs such as "Good Vibrations", "Heroes & Villains", "Surf's Up" & "Caninessence", the truth is that Brian Wilson was never again able to, for an entire album, match the consistent quality of "Pet Sounds". In early 1967, while Brian was still struggling with "Heroes & Villains", he expressed the opinion(to an interviewer) that he was losing his talent. Well, of course, he wasn't losing his talent. There were numerous quality Brian Wilson songs scattered over various Beach Boys & Brian Wilson albums in the decades to come. But I think Brian realised, that with "Pet Sounds" & "Good Vibrations" that he had peaked. Even if "Smile" had been released back then, The Beatles(with their "Sgt.Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" & "Magical Mystery Tour" albums) were still going to leave Brian behind in the dust. Yes, The Beach Boys have gotten decades of mileage out of the "Smile" myth(to build hip credentials for a group that was previously considered "uncool"), but maybe, in our imaginations, we ourselves have hyped "Smile" up to be something better than it is.
                                         I am appalled that the surviving Beach Boys members continue to put their interpersonal hatreds first before the concept of treating the fans right. The latest chapter in this sorry saga(Al Jardine's announcement & retraction) leaves myself and many other fans downhearted.

Wait, are we on the Hoffman board here?!

No, (laughs): I'm a banished ex-Hoffman board member; banished back in 2009.

I doubt that 'Magical Mystery Tour' would have helped leave Brian behind in the dust.

OK, I'm intrigued - what did you do/say ?

Must have been in the way you said it? 

As to Brian being "left in the dust": POPPYCOCK! 
No one knows/will ever know. I'd venture a timely ( January 1967) Release of SmiLe, would have left the Beatles in Brian's dust and changed forever the music scene, altering the Pepper production and splintering the time/space continuum as we know it today.

Does seem weird that on the one hand he was saying that they "didn't do any new recording", but is now saying “I don’t know if we even have enough parts to put it together or not. May have to record some more.” Of all the reasons to not put smile out, not having enough parts and having to record new stuff seems the least feasible explanation me.

And at this point, my greatest fear with this is that they decide to 'finish' it. Although I think Brian's camp would be in an uproar. And wouldn't they need to get approval from Brian's people first? Since he finished it, and it's his and VDP's songs. Still, for some reason, I'm getting  some Bad Vibrations.

Despite the fact that "Magical Mystery Tour" is (technically speaking) a compilation, it had lots of innovative sounds. Groups like Electric Light Orchestra wouldn't have been possible without the influence of "Magical Mystery Tour". Jeff Lynne & Roy Wood admit that that they were heavily influenced by "I Am The Walrus". There's nothing on "Smile" that would have been influential on other artists, and the nature of Smile's songs would have made them (for several reasons) unsuitable or too inaccessable to be covered by other artists.

See, this is what I don't get:   you seem to consider yourself an authority on the matter, yet you mix the known with the unknown and declare it as fact;  For you to claim nothing on Smile would have been influential on other artists is ludicrous.
Smile, even in it's non-finish/release has been influential on countless artists; if you want to advance your Beatles only agenda, I suggest you peddle it on a Beatles message board, and maybe they'll appreciate your lunacy.
While it's a given this is your opinion, as it is for us all, you should have huge warnings on everything you write:
"This is Just My Opinion, and we're all bozos on this bus"   

lol this is ridiculous.  

I'll forgive Al for "Santa Ana Winds" if this release happens

Yeah.  Even unreleased, Smile was and continues to be a huge influence on other artists.

An influence on whom, other than Darian Sahanaja? Much of Smile's vocal complexity & lyrical abstraction would have precluded anyone covering these tracks. Admittedly, Brian was never particularly interested in recording studio technological "tricks" to the extent that The Beatles were, but The Beatles' use of those "tricks" proved to be quite influential. I'm a fan of both The Beatles & The Beach Boys(having lived in that era, and experienced their music in the context of its' time, the 1960's).
                                  The Beach Boys publicists & friends did their share of hyping "Smile"(both in 1966/67, then later in 1972 in an attempt to rebuild the group's popularity via an article in Rolling Stone magazine). The question that I'm posing, is have we fans talked ourselves into thinking "Smile"(as a whole, as opposed to its' 5 best songs heard a la carte) is something better than it really is? It is a question that we should be asking after the recent raising and crushing of the fans' hopes.  Is there valid reason to continue this "Smile" obsession?

I don't know the extent to which it has been an influence but I got to agree.

Should we start at Sagittarius Present Tense and work our way to present day?  That would take all night...


It didn't stop Laughing Gravy.  Or whoever it was that did the Do You Like Worms cover that made it to the Vigotone boot.  Or Apples in Stereo from doing Heroes and Villains. Or, again this would take all night...


What???  Do you know how many different studios Good Vibrations was recorded in?  And I don't recall the Beatles ever recording a song that sounded like a roaring inferno.



I wasn't born back then.  I heard a version of Smile for the first time around 1999.  Before it was played for me, I thought the Beach Boys were just a lame oldies act.  And it blew me away.  So no, I talked myself into nothing.  The music did the talking and it still does.

philcohen certainly thinks he knows a lot huh

So many posts. So many pages into the thread and I am left with one thought...

Nick Mason sang Vegetable Man and Scream Thy Last Scream? That's news to me.  :o

Obviously Smile is great but I think its success if released in '67 would have been limited by the fact that the group pre-dates the Beatles.  If you think about it, no group that reached popularity before the Beatles ever had much album success in that era.  But if any album could've overcome the odds, it would've been Smile...

whenever i wanna hear smile influenced music today.  I just click on something from the elephant 6 crew.  

i mean. listen to this ha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D02Dp6D0z1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s73iSXURYPo

modern spin to my ears.

Indeed, Nick sang 90% of the lead on "Scream Thy Last Scream", and does much of the backing voices  on "Vegetable Man"

You don't think songs like Heroes And Villians had any influence at all on the ELO sound?  ::)

In one obvious instance, Yes: on "Across The Border" from the album "Out of The Blue".