Feel Flows box set

[HeyJude]

Unless I'm missing something, all Howie said was that it currently wasn't scheduled for release.  That could mean a number of things.  Do we have any actual information that any of the band members are deliberately holding up this release?  It seems like there is a lot of speculation going on for a project that was never officially announced in the first place.  Would be nice to get clarity on whether Howie's comments meant it was cancelled, postponed or just simply a release date hasn't been set yet. 

Several release dates have been pushed. It is currently not on the release schedule.

If it were canceled unequivocally, I don't think anybody would be trying to get the fans to advocate for its release.

If it were not on the release schedule simply because a date hasn't been set yet, I don't think anybody would be telling us it's *not* on the release schedule and that they "wish" we could hear it.

I think it's pretty clear that the set is not definitively canceled, and that is has been postponed several times and it now in figurative if not literal purgatory where we can either tell everyone we want it released, or it can eventually just die off and never happen.

[HeyJude]

Is it possible that someone in the BB's camp heard that the Let it Be reissue/remix/remake was postponed till 2021, and decided that was the way to go? It makes no sense to me. A lot of us have been stuck at home for the last 4 or 5 months, we've had plenty of time to listen to box sets, watch dvd's, they should get this stuff out now...and before we all die of covid.

This BB set and its scheduling (or lack thereof) has *zero* to do with any Beatles releases or any other artist's release (or postponement).

I'm guessing the Beatles LIB project is on ice specifically because they wanted a theatrical release of the new Peter Jackson film (which is dumb because that film will not make a bunch of money theatrically, even with theaters back at 100%, but that's a whole other ball of a wax).

[HeyJude]

What are the odds that a certain band-member was pissed that another band-member boycotted The Beach Boys earlier this year. Granted, the boxset was supposed to come out February 2020 which is exactly when the boycott occurred, so more likely this thing was dead-in-the-water before then. But it does make me wonder.

From what I've heard, that whole trophy hunting gig kerfuffle is not impacting why the "Feel Flows" set is not on the release schedule.

[HeyJude]

Question for those who might know: would all unreleased songs (up to the end of 1970) still need to see the light of day or risk falling into Europe's public domain? And, potentially, do you think we would still see alt versions of existing songs under some kind of digital release dump?

Obviously there would be a considerable loss in terms of the presentation of the boxset and what this offers to the Beach Boys' narrative, but I am genuinely curious from somebody who could say on a musical front the kind of impact a non-release would have in terms of actually hearing the songs in one format or another.

I think that is unknown, but the most viable train of thought on this is that they'd only have to protect unreleased titles.

And this is why the TIMING of releasing this set *now* (or soon; this year anyway) is important.

Any scenario of dumping anything as a digital-only "copyright extension" thing will absolutely undercut the box set, and possibly lead to its definitive cancellation.

Scenario 1: The digital dump only has a small amount of tracks consisting of only unreleased titles. This "spoils" some of the most exciting stuff on a box set, undermining/deflating it.

Scenario 2: The digital dump is conformed more to something like the '67 or '68 sets, where unreleased titles are augmented by alternate versions, forming a more robust "multi disc* sized set. This would spoil *even more* of the box, and undermine it to the point where even many hardcore fans would find it hard to pay to buy it all again in a physical set, to *possibly* get some undetermined amount of additional tracks.

Scenario 3: The digital dump has the full contents of the boxed set. In the scenario, I can't envision them also then releasing the boxed set.

Each of these scenarios has an increasing likelihood of ending the actual full boxed set, and in the land of of the BBs, I can easily envision the "worst of both worlds" scenario where a digital dump has some of the good stuff, but is missing a lot of it, but has just enough to justify just canceling the box.

I'm not saying the box would be definitively dead in any particular scenario. But again, there's a reason folks are helping us make a push for this set *now*.

[HeyJude]

Is it possible that some of the unreleased stuff is so good that some in the band believe it will make them look bad that it wasn't included on the albums originally?  Probably not, but that thought just popped into my head.

No.

While "it's too good, we shouldn't release it" does sound like Beach Boys-style mind-boggling reasoning, I don't believe anything like that is at play here.

Again, I think people need to focus less on the *why* (meaning, that it's a bunch of machinations unrelated specifically to the set, but still impacting it), and focus more on that it's simply not on the schedule and the advocating needs to be about how great the material and set is and why they should release it.

[HeyJude]

This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.

[Rocker]

"At times like this isn't it nice to know there's something you can depend on - The Beach Boys"




Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAnFklmCGoI

[startBBtoday]

Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?

[HeyJude]

Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?

The exciting thing is that we don't know; there's stuff we don't even know about.

But even the stuff we know about is pretty tantalizing. There's the stuff that was on the "Brother Rarities Proposed Bonus Tracks" disc that was discovered several years ago (some of which overlaps with stuff on the not-really-an-album "Landlocked" reel):

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17621.0.html

Various backing track, stripped-down mixes, and vocals-only mixes seem a strong possibility.

[Joel Goldenberg]

Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?

Clean version of My Solution plus alternates.
Clean version of the original Big Sur.
Brian demo of 'Til I Die
Positive lyric version of 'Til I Die.
Vocal-only versions of Sunflower, Surf's up tracks
Backing tracks of tracks.
Loop de Loop as done in the early 1970s
Soulful Old Man Sunshine with Carl's "Shunshine" fixed  
Every version possible of Break Away

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Any possible newly discovered Brian vocals, especially considering this is my favorite period of his vocally

[HeyJude]

Look at it this way. That "Brother Rarities" in-house thing looked pretty tantalizing, and that was presumably compiled *20* years ago with less knowledge of the depths of the archives, and was compiled under the assumption of having left-over room on a "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" reissue for some bonus tracks to fill the remaining 30-40 minutes of one CD.

"Feel Flows" was compiled years after a pretty thorough run through the full tape archives, and while exact size is unknown, I think it's safe to assume it's multi-disc.

I don't think anybody working on the set would be so excited if this set was just like an old "Landlocked" boot with some slightly alternate mixes thrown in.

Some of those tracks on that "Brother Rarities" set are game-changers all on their own. A couple of alternate versions of "'Til I Die" would be worth the price of admission. The instrumental piano demo is amazing, even in its simplicity.

[B.E.]

I wonder if they ventured beyond Surf's Up and into late 1971 and 1972. Maybe something like "Carry Me Home" was included on this set. I doubt they had a hard cutoff.

[guitarfool2002]

It's amazing to me that in some circles there seems to be either a denial or a complete deflection of the facts which were laid out for all to read in this discussion. "Move along, nothing more to see here, no one knows, etc..." doesn't work in a situation like this where something is reported as completed and sitting dormant on the shelf.

If it takes emails and messages and whatnot to the band members to change the status of this release, that suggests it's a band member issue. For whatever messed up reason that may be. But then fans should start emailing and messaging and flooding them with comments asking for it to come out. That sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Apart from what's already been listed, how about some Sunflower studio session tapes and maybe more versions/mixes of Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, heck that alone would be worth the price of admission. Same with Til I Die, let people hear the genius of this stuff before it's too late.

[CenturyDeprived]

It's amazing to me that in some circles there seems to be either a denial or a complete deflection of the facts which were laid out for all to read in this discussion. "Move along, nothing more to see here, no one knows, etc..." doesn't work in a situation like this where something is reported as completed and sitting dormant on the shelf.

If it takes emails and messages and whatnot to the band members to change the status of this release, that suggests it's a band member issue. For whatever messed up reason that may be. But then fans should start emailing and messaging and flooding them with comments asking for it to come out. That sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Apart from what's already been listed, how about some Sunflower studio session tapes and maybe more versions/mixes of Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, heck that alone would be worth the price of admission. Same with Til I Die, let people hear the genius of this stuff before it's too late.

And truly, you hit the nail on the head there GF. Before it's too late. Fans are getting old. Fans as they grow older are dying from natural causes, and of course from this dastardly disease that has sadly permeated the planet.

There are well documented stories of folks - who were on their deathbeds - who were able to get advance screenings of some of the more recent Star Wars movies so that they could see them and experience joy before passing away. This of course involved the movie studios and the creative people to sign off on such a wonderful gift and perform and act of kindness, which bent the rules to help somebody enjoy a piece of art as their dying wish.

This band and its members may not be aware of this, but whoever in the band is holding this release up could literally be depriving elderly or otherwise sick fans of this band of joy during their last moments. This may sound like an exaggeration but I really don't think it is. Especially at this moment in time when depression and mental health issues run rampant due to the world being upside down, the healing power of music cannot be underestimated.

It sounds crazy but I have no doubt that this band's music is so powerful that it could not only heal and give emotional comfort to those who are not well, but specifically this could mean so much to people, beyond the scope of what the members of the band can realize. I literally think that a release of this magnitude could bring extra years of life to people. The healing power of music.  It's that special.

To think this could all be squandered for some sort of petty squabbling, ego issues, or whatever nonsense is causing a delay/cancellation - and I have no doubt that this would be something petty that's causing it - is absolutely tragic.  

I really think there's a way this whole situation could be framed to the band which they would realize the words I'm saying are true. And of course the issues may not be petty to them personally, but if they care about the potential of helping fans experience joy at this very dark moment in time, and just how big a deal that is to many people - I would hope they could figure things out and let this release happen.

For the love of all that's good in the world. C'mon.

[rab2591]

Deleted by author.

[CenturyDeprived]

I should also add ... today on Sirius XM radio I heard an ad for some upcoming Rolling Stones box set. I'm not some huge fan of that band so I wasn't listening super closely, but I did catch a few words speaking about how it would have all sorts of different tracks, it was gushing to the fans that this is some gooood RS stuff.

It's insane to me that this band, by comparison, has to have its fanbase pleading for such a release to see the light of day. Well, that's the situation we are in, and we've got to find a way to make this release happen.

If this is Mike who is holding this up, I really hope that his competitive spirit against the Rolling Stones can kick into high gear. If ever we need that competitive spirit that he showed at the Hall of Fame speech, it's right now.

This band can absolutely kick the ass of the Rolling Stones when it comes to output, and now is the perfect chance to gain points  for the BBs brand.

And I swear, I feel confident that there will be reviewers who will talk about the positive contributions that Mike brought to the music, and how All I Wanna Do is a supremely underrated track.

This has simply got to happen. Of all of the different eras during this band's existence - wouldn't it make sense that the era that shows more than any other that they were a real "band" with positive contributions from every single member, be an era that should be highlighted?

[Joel Goldenberg]

The Rolling Stones box set in question is the Goat's Head Soup deluxe edition. I have heard many Stones outtakes over the years in less than great fidelity, and BB outtakes are 1,000 times more interesting.

[Ram4]

This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.

On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

[Ian]

Has to be said that while the Stones are always willing to open the Atlantic archives-post 1970-fans hungering for outtakes from the Brian Jones years will not get satisfaction because the stones and Allan klein’s estate/abko will never reach agreement-so all abko can put out is remastered versions of the existing catalog with no input from mick and Keith-so the Stones are just as dysfunctional as the BBs in some respects

[HeyJude]

Has to be said that while the Stones are always willing to open the Atlantic archives-post 1970-fans hungering for outtakes from the Brian Jones years will not get satisfaction because the stones and Allan klein’s estate/abko will never reach agreement-so all abko can put out is remastered versions of the existing catalog with no input from mick and Keith-so the Stones are just as dysfunctional as the BBs in some respects

I'm by no means a Stones expert, but it sounds like for material they own outright, they manage to get stuff out.

The "Feel Flows" set is all BRI-owned and controlled material.

60s material is owned by Capitol, with unreleased material requiring BRI approval.

Yet, it has been 60s material that has been mined far more than 70s/80s/90s material. There are of course many reasons for this (obviously PS and Smile yield more demand).

But BRI owns a TOOOONNNNNNN of studio and live material from 1970 to, well, the present, of which there are no external (meaning non-band/corporate member) roadblocks. Yet this is the stuff that is always more difficult to get out.

[HeyJude]

This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.

On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

If you're happy just sitting back and making the mind-blowing prediction that "something might happen some day, whatever", that's fine.

But this attitude would not be based on what's actually going on with this set.

What people in the know, including people who have worked on this set, are trying to say is that, *if you actually care about hearing this material*, then you absolutely SHOULD worry about it right now.

Obviously, this isn't a life-or-death situation. Nobody should have a panic attack over it or let it control their lives.

But within the scope of caring about the band and having this interest in our lives, this is something to get worked up about and worried about not happening if things don't change.

I feel like there are some BB fans doing this:

[twentytwenty]

Are we really sure that this is a band member issue?

[HeyJude]

Are we really sure that this is a band member issue?

Read what Stebbins wrote again. (As well as what others have said; who and what we've been saying *isn't* the issue) 

There's a point at which you either have to believe those in the know, and those that have and are working on these sets, or you're saying they're wrong.

The precise backroom politics and reasoning behind this aren't going to be spelled out in bloody detail, nor are specific names going to be named. Maybe somebody, I don't know.

But the important thing to understand is that there's an amazing set ready to go, and it isn't planned for release right now. The *only* thing to do given the info that can be put out there (and frankly, the only thing to do even if we knew every minute detail and knew all the names) is to tell the band and pertinent parties (frankly, tell everybody; why not?) that we want this set, and it would be a good thing for the band.

[Cork On The Ocean]

Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly take digital only releases over nothing at all, but what engenders a not insignificant amount of envy is that recently, all of these fantastic 60's/70's artists and albums which are celebrating 50th anniversaries (in addition to copyright extension necessities), have been getting such amazing reissues and/or box sets, while we have not had a physical release in now over three years - and even then, it could have been bigger what with all the extra sessions and live material that was digitally dumped after the fact at the end of the year.

And not only are so many others getting physical releases, they're getting multiple deluxe physical releases. For goodness sake, McCartney's Flaming Pie, which isn't even that old (I'm in my 30's and it came out while I was in HS), got five different deluxe physical sets. Also, through the superdeluxeedition site and Hoffman forums, I stumbled on the Richard and Linda Thompson box set news. I checked them out on Spotify and it's right up my alley, so I bit. Now, I'd never heard of them, and even my parents with a huge eclectic 60's/70's record collection have never heard of them, and as far as I can tell, they hardly (or maybe never) even broke into the charts anywhere, yet apparently there's a worldwide market for an 8-disc set.

I don't pretend to know how the intricacies of this industry works, but I have a hard time believing with all these products out there, many with multiple formats to choose from, that there isn't a robust market for, or they couldn't turn a profit on, a single format 5-disc release. And it's not like people are pressuring them to begin a daunting two year long project without any notion of where it's going, what would be on it, or who would want it - it's apparently already done! With almost unprecedented economic turmoil and massive unemployment, we have to beg them to now take our money. I have a hard time believing the hold up is the pandemic, when so many other things are coming out. I also have a hard time believing it's the distributing label, the two members who teased it, the estate of the member whose song titles the set, or the member who seems to need to read from a cue card to record a 15-second "Hi, this is...hope everybody is staying safe" YouTube video. Reasoning and over 50 years of precedent hint at the holdup. Could be wrong - hopefully wrong.