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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Tricycle Rider on November 17, 2019, 01:18:55 AM



Title: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tricycle Rider on November 17, 2019, 01:18:55 AM
From tingly @SHF:

Al Jardine said today that there is a great box set that they're working on. Its working title is Feel Flows. Contents are Sunflower, Surfs Up, and an unreleased live recording of which he has no memory doing. He didn't say what concert, physical/download, if it's certain for release, possible release date, whether remastered, if there are outtakes,...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 17, 2019, 03:27:14 AM

Ah, beautiful! You can always count on Al Jardine  ;D



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 17, 2019, 08:09:21 AM
That would be fantastic!
I guess the concert would be from just before Blondie and Ricky joined, but maybe they were already part of the backing group. Maybe Carnegie Hall from September '71 if that one was recorded?
I guess if there will be a boxset for "Holland" in the future (and giving it's relative high profile outside of Beach Boys fandom, I think it would be a possibility) they will include the partly bootlegged show that features "Long promised road" from the "Endless harmony" soundtrack.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 17, 2019, 11:34:08 AM
Oh lord  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 17, 2019, 12:28:15 PM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 17, 2019, 12:57:46 PM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tpesky on November 17, 2019, 03:28:24 PM
Al Jardine having memory recall issues ?! I’m shocked  ;D  Seriously though great news. I’d think Al would remember the Carnegie Hall concert.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 17, 2019, 04:04:50 PM
Al Jardine having memory recall issues ?! I’m shocked  ;D  Seriously though great news. I’d think Al would remember the Carnegie Hall concert.

Yeah...especially considering there were several! ('71, '72, '73)….


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 17, 2019, 05:44:08 PM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on November 17, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 18, 2019, 04:41:46 AM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...
I'm excited for pretty much anything from Brian from the 1971-74 period. I wonder if any demos or other recordings will be unearthed?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 18, 2019, 05:36:44 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 05:50:42 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.


I'm not sure but I think "I've got a friend" was part of a later time frame (the Blondie & Ricky era) which "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" don't cover. But this is just guessing on my part, I of course don't know what show will be on the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on November 18, 2019, 07:05:19 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 10:08:41 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 18, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)

Dang it. Legendary song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on November 18, 2019, 11:57:36 AM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


I've been eagerly waiting to hear the backing tracks of This Whole World, All I Wanna Do and At My Window for so long now. If it's like the Wild Honey boxes this should be amazing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 18, 2019, 11:58:15 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 18, 2019, 12:34:48 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on November 18, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)

How is the SMiLE online sessionography coming? Has it been shelved indefinitely. That would be ironic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 01:30:32 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)


Did you hear a version of the broadcast? What was the quality like?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 18, 2019, 04:26:29 PM
Not good.

https://rtlgreat208.wordpress.com/



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on November 19, 2019, 12:45:30 AM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


I've been eagerly waiting to hear the backing tracks of This Whole World, All I Wanna Do and At My Window for so long now. If it's like the Wild Honey boxes this should be amazing.

Yes, hearing those three would be awesome! I imagine in This Whole World there must be some amazing musical details buried beneath all those thick layers of backing vocals.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on November 19, 2019, 10:17:14 AM
speaking of at my window, and al jardine for that matter

I'd like to hear early tracking for that song when it was still a form of raspberries/strawberries cover of the Kingston trio song which Al wanted to do

(perhaps a little like how riot in cellblock #9 became student demonstration time on their next LP)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aeijtzsche on November 19, 2019, 10:53:21 AM
speaking of at my window, and al jardine for that matter

I'd like to hear early tracking for that song when it was still a form of raspberries/strawberries cover of the Kingston trio song which Al wanted to do

(perhaps a little like how riot in cellblock #9 became student demonstration time on their next LP)

That does exist--although it's not really "different" as such from "Window".  As far as I recall, they never did vox for Raspberries.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on November 19, 2019, 07:07:11 PM
AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 20, 2019, 02:55:53 AM
So when are we expecting the official news about this box set? Sometime next month?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on November 20, 2019, 08:40:12 AM
"AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs."

officially, of course, they'd have to be, songwriting credits couldn't support otherwise.  the songname Raspberries & Strawberries first came up with how At My Window recording began


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 09:57:12 AM
"AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs."

officially, of course, they'd have to be, songwriting credits couldn't support otherwise.  the songname Raspberries & Strawberries first came up with how At My Window recording began


I think she meant she couldn’t hear the resemblance between the two songs


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 11:10:27 AM
Think it’s kind of obvious now, but does this officially confirm there won’t be a copyright extension release this year?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 20, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Think it’s kind of obvious now, but does this officially confirm there won’t be a copyright extension release this year?

But wouldn't they lose the copyright on tracks like I'm Going Your Way if they fail to release them by 01/01/2020?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 12:48:31 PM
That’s what I was getting at. Not a lot of time to put it out though


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 20, 2019, 01:23:59 PM
For any digital releases, they can announce and release the thing on December 31 if they want.

Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.

You get the idea.

If there is indeed a physical component to any upcoming set, I agree it's getting late for an announcement for a physical release before the end of 2019.

The physical 2-CD "Party" outtake set was announced October 23, 2015 for a November 20, 2015 release.

The physical 2-CD "Sunshine Tomorrow" set was announced May 23, 2017 for a June 20, 2017 release.

So a physical product by the end of December could still be announced based on those timelines. They could also do a staggered release (similar to home releases of films) where they put out a digital release of the set before the end of December with a physical set following a month or two later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on November 21, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
The 1968 sets actually dropped with zero announcement before the producers were even aware of it, about a week before the assumed release date. None of the official social media accounts gave a mention of them until quite a bit later. These things can definitely come out with no warning.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 21, 2019, 08:54:00 AM
Good points!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 22, 2019, 11:42:29 AM
This will be amazing,  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on November 22, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
Definitely have a love-hate relationship with digital music, but it would be cool to listen to the streaming version before Christmas. I doubt there will be a hard copy if Friends and 20/20 didn't get one, even if there is more "critical acclaim" for the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Seems they only did it with Wild Honey because of the new stereo mix really.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on November 22, 2019, 05:36:13 PM
Definitely have a love-hate relationship with digital music, but it would be cool to listen to the streaming version before Christmas. I doubt there will be a hard copy if Friends and 20/20 didn't get one, even if there is more "critical acclaim" for the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Seems they only did it with Wild Honey because of the new stereo mix really.
If Al Jardine said there would be a box set named Feel Flows, then I think there's a fair chance real physical box set is coming...

Plus, I like to think Sunflower/Surf's Up era would be given physical treatment, especially if they could justify 2 CD release for Party! sessions back in 2015.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't mind it at all as long as the release, be it physical or just digital, would happen and we'd get to hear the music, though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 22, 2019, 05:54:24 PM
Need to see tracklist. Bring it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on November 23, 2019, 10:26:40 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on November 23, 2019, 10:30:42 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.
Feel Flows: Torture Edition!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 23, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.
Feel Flows: Torture Edition!
Feel Flows: The Grateful Dead version!  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2019, 11:29:21 AM
Don't give me any ideas to do a "chopped and screwed" mix of Feel Flows :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on November 23, 2019, 02:13:09 PM
I am hoping we get a longer version of WIBNTLA.  I would like to hear more of the outro.  So spontaneous and different from their norm.  And while I'm wishing, a mix where the guitar solo is a click higher.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
I agree. I absolutely love that outro


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 24, 2019, 09:53:21 AM
I suppose the 4th Quarter Christmas season release having to come out ASAP doesn't need apply because they have a rough idea of how many units will ship to the die-hard fans.  The greatest hits crowd probably doesn't even know much about the 1969-71 period anyway.  That being said with Sunflower (making Rolling Stone's Top 500 albums of all-time) and Surf's Up considered classics by music fans in the know, you think there would be some promo for the set via interviews and reviews.  I think they should do a physical box (and maybe companion smaller set like Smile Sessions) and really hype it up.  It would be so great for the band's legacy especially if the masses who are unfamiliar discover this era.  And if that's the case here's my prediction:

- We will get a digital only release in December with 1969 live material (if any) and some 1969 studio sessions (APPETIZER)
- There will be a glorious Feel Flows box next year with a decent amount of press coverage and build-up (MAIN COURSE)
- There will be a 1970 December digital live release (DESSERT)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 24, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Don't give me any ideas to do a "chopped and screwed" mix of Feel Flows :lol
Bring it!  >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 25, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
I want it digital, it’s the easiest way for me to listen to it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 25, 2019, 03:57:46 PM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

However, if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet, I will likely buy it in that format. And yes, I know vinyls aren't everyone's personal preference, but it's just the way I'd like it packaged.

Wish list:

- Vocals only of WIBNTLA backing vocals
- A decent sounding version of the backing vocals for Til I Die
- Anything that has to do with 'This Whole World'
- Any demos for any songs from this era
- Brian's Til I Die piano demo
- The list goes on and on

Cannot wait for any official word about this release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on November 25, 2019, 04:23:01 PM

Wish list:

- Anything that has to do with 'This Whole World'


Yeah, I'm pretty stoked for the version of This Whole World with the alt tag that was featured very briefly in that airlines commercial they did... that seems like a real lost gem.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on November 26, 2019, 12:22:37 AM
Cola ad version of Cool Cool Water?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on November 26, 2019, 06:05:52 AM
Cola ad version of Cool Cool Water?

Think that was more 1967.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 26, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
Agree that it'd be great to include the airline TV commercial featuring This Whole World...

Lord, I remember seeing that on television and freaking out... If I recall correctly, Bruce was the featured spokesperson...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 26, 2019, 08:35:21 AM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

...if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet...



I agree on the booklet, but it's a hard no on the vinyl. The vinyl is why the Smile Sessions boxset is way more expensive. It's a needless extravagance that should be a separate release. At the very least there should be a cheaper version without any vinyl.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 09:25:55 AM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

...if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet...



I agree on the booklet, but it's a hard no on the vinyl. The vinyl is why the Smile Sessions boxset is way more expensive. It's a needless extravagance that should be a separate release. At the very least there should be a cheaper version without any vinyl.

As I said I know that it's not everyone's preference...just something I would like. As for the Smile Sessions - that's kind of a boxset that had to come with a vinyl. I completely see why Surf's Up and Sunflower would be redundant to some fans (especially fans who have owned several of the vinyl releases over the years), but Smile at that point had no official release - it was kinda like them saying "finally, here is what you possibly would've gotten in 1967", so a boxset including vinyls made perfect sense to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 26, 2019, 09:43:23 AM
Add me to the list of folks who don't need vinyl added to a large boxed set that already has the same content on CD. I'm all for releasing stuff on vinyl for the people who want it, but there's no reason that can't be accomplished as a separate release. That was true of "Smile" as well. I would have gladly paid $30 less to skip the vinyl in that set. Didn't get also release the vinyl separately?

There have been archival releases like the McCartney sets where there are like 10 different SKUs with all the different variations. Single CD, Double CD, single vinyl, double vinyl, huge boxed set, deluxe set, etc. I know a BB set, if we even got a physical component at all, wouldn't see that sort of thing happen. But if Capitol/UMe wants to sell some BB boxed sets, they're better served not bloating the set out with extraneous, repetitive content like vinyl that repeats what's on the CDs.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 26, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
Add me to the list of folks who don't need vinyl added to a large boxed set that already has the same content on CD. I'm all for releasing stuff on vinyl for the people who want it, but there's no reason that can't be accomplished as a separate release. That was true of "Smile" as well. I would have gladly paid $30 less to skip the vinyl in that set. Didn't get also release the vinyl separately?

There have been archival releases like the McCartney sets where there are like 10 different SKUs with all the different variations. Single CD, Double CD, single vinyl, double vinyl, huge boxed set, deluxe set, etc. I know a BB set, if we even got a physical component at all, wouldn't see that sort of thing happen. But if Capitol/UMe wants to sell some BB boxed sets, they're better served not bloating the set out with extraneous, repetitive content like vinyl that repeats what's on the CDs.



Yeah, have a separate 3/4 LP release for the people who really like having stuff on vinyl. Make it like the Beatles' 50th sets and have Sunflower and Surf's Up (remixed if that's what they're going to do) and then devote the other records to finished tracks from the era which weren't included (IJGMP, 4th of July, WIBNTLA, I'm Goin Your Way).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 10:02:39 AM
Well I enjoy having the vinyl included. Should've made my disclaimer longer in my original post - every time I mention the word vinyl here I get a diatribe back about it. Again I say, it's just my preference and to me it's not "bloat" and it's not "repetitive".

As for the vinyl release of SMiLE, it did get a separate release as well apart from the boxset. The smaller CD set also came with a button that the large boxset didn't come with. I mean, we could also complain about the 3-dimensional boxset artwork because that was completely pointless and added a lot of cost to the set. But I won't because that attention to detail made it a very special product. Likewise, the inclusion of the vinyl made it more of a special product too. In the 40 years that the totality of Smile was ignored by the band (in any official capacity - and I say total because we never got a set that accumulated all the sessions and songs together) I don't think an added $30 to the cost of a boxset that released all of this in amazing quality is worth whining about.

It's funny that every time a set is released we are told to "go buy it because it helps support future projects"....but apparently it was a burden that they added some value to the Smile set with vinyls (that only added profit to the project and thus helped support future projects). Some here get lambasted for streaming these sets while others complain that we can't spend too much money to support these projects due to supposed bloat and repetitiveness.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 26, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
Take a poll of how many people around you buy new CD's. Most stores who did carry them won't even touch them now. I'm just putting that out there.

It's disheartening to me to see or hear local musicians making a new album spending thousands to get CD's pressed with artwork, inserts, etc...when most people simply do not tote around CD's when they're in listening mode during their daily lives. The preferred delivery of music changed dramatically, for better or worse, yet the CD is still being discussed. I'm just going by the dozens of musicians I'm in contact with on a weekly basis. Most of them stream or pay subscription services for mobile or instant listening, and those who make listening an experience at home choose vinyl and their turntable of choice.

Don't hate the players, hate the game...if people have an issue with streaming and subscription listening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 26, 2019, 11:21:54 AM
Instantly available streaming is a double edged sword; on one hand it's great to get everything immediately, but the bad part is that there is no actual disc and case to hold and no booklet to go through. I "cut my teeth" buying cd's at the CD store at the local mall, and consequently learning to love  many bands and styles of music. It hurt my heart to see the CD store close down for good, along with various other CD stores. I'm firmly stuck on the CD format of music, and probably always will be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on November 26, 2019, 11:55:01 AM
I neither have the appropriate technology nor the trust that a corporate entity will keep the music available (or affordable) in the long term for me to abide with streaming. I go with just vinyl and digital downloads (lossless for my favorites). CDs are an exceedingly rare purchase nowadays: only if it's a cherished boxset or if there's no other way to obtain the music. With the CDs I just end up ripping them losslessly and never playing the discs; the artwork is too small, although I will revisit a nicely assembled physical book(let) every now and then...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 26, 2019, 12:13:18 PM
Instantly available streaming is a double edged sword; on one hand it's great to get everything immediately, but the bad part is that there is no actual disc and case to hold and no booklet to go through. I "cut my teeth" buying cd's at the CD store at the local mall, and consequently learning to love  many bands and styles of music. It hurt my heart to see the CD store close down for good, along with various other CD stores. I'm firmly stuck on the CD format of music, and probably always will be.

I had the same reaction when the music world shifted from vinyl LPs to CDs! I cut MY teeth buying 12" vinyl at the local mall, and shed a tear when it became quite clear that the industry was "downsizing" it's album art presentation standard to fit the jewel case.  :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 26, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
Regarding the "bloat" adding vinyl to a CD boxed set, it's simply a case of adding needless *cost* to a set where all of the components are also available separately.

I guarantee you there are hundreds if not a few thousand vinyl copies of "Smile" just sitting there in that big 2011 "Smile Sessions" boxed set going unused.

Purchases of such boxed sets theoretically help fund future projects (how much this happens in actuality I tend to wonder), but the more expensive the set is, the harder it is for some people to buy. Again, McCartney doesn't bloat his "Archive" sets with vinyl duplicates of the stuff already on the CDs.

Certain bundles make sense, especially when there is little to no added cost. For instance, some vinyl releases (or CDs for that matter) come with a digital download code.

It's barely worth debating though, I admit. Big CD boxed sets are pretty rare these days.

I think BRI could still do some amazing things with nice boxed sets and physical *and* digital archival releases. But imagine how much *more* money they would have made doing this stuff 10-15-20 years ago when physical sales were still a thing.

But the deal with a Beach Boys boxed set is that they probably would need to make a boxed set pretty lavish to entice sales. But I don't think it would need to be unneeded vinyl. A nice book with photos, etc. That sort of stuff.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 26, 2019, 02:43:54 PM
I didn't shed a tear when LPs were replaced by CDs in the late 80's.  While I missed my album covers, I was fed up with dealing with vinyl, not to mention I couldn't play my records in my car so it was good riddance from me.  If I want better resolution audio than CDs I'll go for high res digital audio.  My Smile Sessions vinyl sits in it's box.  I should probably just give it to my brother.  He's on a vinyl kick these days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
Regarding the "bloat" adding vinyl to a CD boxed set, it's simply a case of adding needless *cost* to a set where all of the components are also available separately.

I guarantee you there are hundreds if not a few thousand vinyl copies of "Smile" just sitting there in that big 2011 "Smile Sessions" boxed set going unused.

And I guarantee there are hundreds if not a few thousand copies of booklets from these boxsets that no one opens that just sit around. I legit have opened the Made In California book probably twice ever since I got it. And the second time I opened it I think was to retrieve a CD. Point being, there will always be something that certain people don't want in a boxset that we could technically buy piecemeal (hell, I could've done without the entire Good Vibrations sessions CD on the Smile Set).....or we could support a project (without whining about it) that comes with a lot of goodies all in one set.

And again I'll say, I'm speaking about the SMiLE set where I think it was a really good idea to include the vinyl - just because of the historical significance of probably the most famous unreleased album of all time finally getting a release...and what that vinyl release could have looked like in 1967. Having a boxset for Sunflower/Surf's Up with vinyls probably isn't the best idea, and I fully admit that, but it's something that I personally would like. In the future I'll specify that I'd want two boxsets, one for vinyl fans and one for not, only so we don't have to debate this every time a new boxset is mentioned.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 26, 2019, 06:23:39 PM
I have no issue with the vinyl in and of itself. What irritates me is when it adds to the cost...I wasn't able to afford the Smile Sessions set (not the full one, anyway) for example.


Edit

My kid told me a little bit ago that she wants a turntable for Christmas and I sh*t you not wants to start collecting vinyls. I didn’t mention this thread or anything, I swear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 27, 2019, 03:47:25 AM
To be honest, I haven't been able to afford even many of the digital releases in recent years. So I completely hear ya there. The Smile Sessions on iTunes actually came out one day before the physical set came out - and it was quite a bit cheaper than the physical set iirc. So there were ways to get the 5 CD's worth of music without needing to pay the extra cost for the vinyls, book, poster, etc. And I admit that iTunes quality isn't FLAC quality, but to my ears through my studio headphones or speaker setup I don't hear a major difference (not enough of a difference to matter).

Again I'll say, there was a lot about the boxset that was over-the-top - heck, there were some sets that came with lights on the inside of the 3D Smile shop! But it kinda had to be over-the-top given the rare nature of this album (being one of the most famous unreleased albums in history). I totally forgot yesterday, but not only did it come with the LPs but it came with the 45s with their respective artwork on the sleeves - which I have rarely ever listened to, but I love to have in my collection. In one package we got everything a person would've gotten (obviously a different track listing and mix) in 1967 had this album come out then...which, I think, is exactly what Mark Linett, Alan Boyd were partly trying to achieve with this set. So yeah, unfortunately it cost more, but it also made it one of the most unique boxsets to ever be released (and all the CD contents were available to purchase digitally without all the added flair).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 28, 2019, 12:24:18 AM
The recorded music industry obviously has gone through massive changes over the past 20 years.  The only real market left for physical releases is deluxe packages for super-fans/collectors.  Do places like Target and Barnes & Noble even sell CDs anymore?  I'm not even sure the last time I bought a CD... maybe 2012, 2013.  Vinyl has made a comeback, but it's a niche thing, also aimed at super-fans/collectors.  No one is going into to Target and buying Sgt Pepper on vinyl because they want to listen to the songs.  They've already heard the songs.  They already have the songs on the iphone.  The vinyl package is simply a vanity product-- a decoration to look cool in the owner's home. 

Of course, I bought the Smile box in 2011.  How could I not?  It was the dream release of every hardcore BB/BW fan for decades. But I've never played any of the vinyl though it certainly does look cool.  I did read the book, cover to cover.  I ripped the CDs once to my iTunes and returned them to the box never to be taken out again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 28, 2019, 04:59:18 AM
Pretty much all of my vinyls are stored in a closet where no one sees 'em. I actually bought Ziggy Stardust from Target a year ago (and I listen to it from time to time) and it sits on a shelf mixed in with a lot of other vinyls, not being used as a vanity product.

I think those who purchase modern vinyls have various reasons for getting them - vanity is definitely one of them for some, but others have different reasons - personally I like the experience of listening to a vinyl. I find that I actually sit and listen to the music more closely: the music is my #1 priority at that time (because firstly I know that the vinyl will wear out one day and that every listen is a precious one, and two I have to physically interact with the record by flipping it over). And while this sounds completely stupid, it can be compared to watching a movie in a movie theater vs watching the same exact movie on an 85" flatscreen in 4K with Dolby Surround in your home - it's both technically the same exact movie that you're viewing on giant screens, but they are different experiences. Some prefer one or the other. And that's the way it is for me with vinyl vs listening with my iPhone. I do both, and do the latter much more. But when I'm chilling out and really focussing on music I prefer the vinyl. Just a personal preference.

Also, there are some vintage records that aren't available digitally that are available on vinyl - albeit none that you would buy in Target, but nonetheless, if I own a rare classical music album on vinyl (and quite a few vintage BB records that sound better than their digital copies), I might as well buy some other modern pressed albums to accompany it (mostly because, again, I like the experience).

Everyone is different and everyone has their own weird ways of consuming entertainment. Some people are completely happy displaying pictures in digital frames while others prefer print, even though they are virtually the same thing. Vanity is definitely a reason for some (and I admit I have displayed my SMiLE record before for vanity sake), but it's not the only reason.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 28, 2019, 11:14:37 PM
I know i'm showing my age, but I still role my eyes at people talking about "vinyls". I love records, always will; I grew up with them, it was always the ultimate, to sit down with that package, and devote the next 30 to 50 minutes with that album. I was one of the last to start buying cd's, and now nobody wants them, but I think cd's can be a nice listening experience. For me, streaming is when I just want to have some music on in the background while I am online, or doing stuff around the house. In the car, I don't really care about sound quality, because the music is competing with the sound of the road, the loud trucks and cars going by me.
These days, if the album is important enough to me, I will buy the vinyl - it costs a little more, but it's worth it. Less important stuff I will buy on cd. I bought the vinyl Smile Sessions because that was how I had always envisioned it - the album that was supposed to come out in 1967.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on November 29, 2019, 01:19:07 AM
Can people stop saying "Vinyls"...it's upsetting  :-\

"Records"...that's the word you want  ;D

or if you must.."My Vinyl"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TheLazenby on November 29, 2019, 10:07:21 AM
The recorded music industry obviously has gone through massive changes over the past 20 years.  The only real market left for physical releases is deluxe packages for super-fans/collectors.  Do places like Target and Barnes & Noble even sell CDs anymore?  I'm not even sure the last time I bought a CD... maybe 2012, 2013.  Vinyl has made a comeback, but it's a niche thing, also aimed at super-fans/collectors.  No one is going into to Target and buying Sgt Pepper on vinyl because they want to listen to the songs.  They've already heard the songs.  They already have the songs on the iphone.  The vinyl package is simply a vanity product-- a decoration to look cool in the owner's home. 

Of course, I bought the Smile box in 2011.  How could I not?  It was the dream release of every hardcore BB/BW fan for decades. But I've never played any of the vinyl though it certainly does look cool.  I did read the book, cover to cover.  I ripped the CDs once to my iTunes and returned them to the box never to be taken out again.

I was just at a Barnes and Noble that sold CD's, in fact.  Target, on the other hand, has very few.

Other places like Best Buy carry vinyl exclusively.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 29, 2019, 10:19:27 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 29, 2019, 04:39:47 PM
I thought Best Buy quit selling CDs period earlier this year, like around June


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 29, 2019, 09:58:12 PM
I thought Best Buy quit selling CDs period earlier this year, like around June
I think it was a little longer than that. I thought they quit selling cd's about a year or two ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 30, 2019, 08:40:44 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 30, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.

Cool kid!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 30, 2019, 08:31:39 PM
Can people stop saying "Vinyls"...it's upsetting  :-\

"Records"...that's the word you want  ;D

or if you must.."My Vinyl"
Agreed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 01, 2019, 02:39:43 AM
Vinyls is technically accurate - add the "s" to it = vinyls. Easy. :police:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 01, 2019, 04:21:24 AM
I wonder if this year's copyright set covering unreleased stuff from 1969 is to be released next Friday, just like last year....



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on December 01, 2019, 10:14:47 AM
Vinyls is technically accurate - add the "s" to it = vinyls. Easy. :police:

Maybe.....if this petition worked - https://thevinylfactory.com/news/petition-the-plural-of-vinyl-to-vinyls/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 01, 2019, 10:51:44 AM
Quote
This will also serve the essential purpose of annoying people who would rather ridicule a complete stranger than say something encouraging to a fellow “vinyls” collector, especially those who may be just getting started in the hobby.

Sad that happens. I'm totally cool with saying vinyl or records, but I legitimately had no idea the plural for vinyl didn't include an "s". So apologies to those in this thread whose reaction was an eye-roll for that. In the future, perhaps if you encounter this faux pas again, explain why instead of not explaining - I had no idea if you guys were being serious about the word "vinyls" or why it was even an issue.

I know i'm showing my age, but I still role my eyes at people talking about "vinyls".

As long as we're pointing out mistakes, you don't "role" eyes but rather "roll".

Anywho, glad this was pointed out to me and I won't be making the mistake again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.

That doesn't exist. Only the studio instrumental track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on December 02, 2019, 11:49:08 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 02, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
Me too :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on December 03, 2019, 08:01:36 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.

You have no idea how often my wife and I say this exact thing.

It's a lot.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 03, 2019, 08:09:34 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ReggieDunbar on December 03, 2019, 08:24:43 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.

What? I provide my kids with their basic needs. Does she have to buy her own food too?!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 03, 2019, 09:49:05 AM
:lol

Nah, she used her Christmas money...was the very first CD she bought herself.

It's funny...I'm 41 and most of the music I have these days is in digital form; my 12 year old is the one who wants to collect cds and vinyls*.



* Sorry....couldn't resist


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 03, 2019, 01:19:44 PM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.
Actually, the place I was referring to in my post you quoted was indeed Borders. Oops.  :lol Yes, I miss it greatly...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 03, 2019, 01:26:11 PM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.

Suncoast video!! Oh God, I haven't thought about that in years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 03, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.

Sorry to keep it going off-topic but I remember all those stores you mentioned as well including Sound Warehouse (or Sound Whorehouse as my friend called it).  Bill Gates said it many years ago - that all physical media would be gone in the near future.  I'm sure he never saw the resurgence of vinyl coming, and ironically that's something I have zero interest in.  Yes, I love my album covers but that's it.  I found the prices at Borders to be reasonable.  I always shopped there over Barnes and Noble.  Of course Tower Records was my favorite.  I would regularly go to three in the Chicago area (Lincoln Park, Schaumburg and Bloomingdale for you locals).  You are correct - all physical media will be sold less and less in big box stores and sadly many big box stores and malls will be gone.  I don't really buy any physical media anymore unless it's a must-have which is rare.  I don't mind going to our local Half Price Books for books and movies or simply just going to the library.  I take out a movie or two, watch them, and I'm done.  Why would I want to own most of them?  Anyway I hope to see a physical Feel Flows box based on what we're hearing it could be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 03, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
Tower, Musicland, Wherehouse, Record Factory, Camelot...  so many memories of those stores back in the day.
I was thrilled when Wherehouse started selling used CDs... Circa 1994-95, I remember finding an orphaned Disc 2 (with the Smile tracks) from the 1993 box set for $4.99.  Incredible deal at a time when I was broke student and the $70 box was outside my budget.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on December 04, 2019, 03:42:13 AM
I live in the big city of Dallas, Tx, so while we have lost many large stores such as Tower Records, Virgin Records, Blockbuster, etc, we still have some indie record and video stores around. Movie Trader Company and Barnes and Nobles still exist as well. I collect DVDs and Cds of only my favorite movies and albums.  Same with books. I think in my post apocalyptic mind, it will be good to have physical copies of these things. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on December 04, 2019, 10:02:50 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


Yes, the prices on music and movies at Borders were high, but they had a great selection, and it always felt so welcoming there. I find Barnes & Noble to be a sterile atmosphere.

As for the Feel Flows Box Set, count me among those who would buy it on vinyl, but I agree it should be available in all media. They'll have to pry my physical media from my cold, dead hands.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 04, 2019, 11:19:21 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


 They'll have to pry my physical media from my cold, dead hands.
Amen.  8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 05, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
Wow!
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on December 06, 2019, 08:22:52 PM
I'm a vinyl lover, but the price of new vinyl has gotten outrageous. Not many stores have a deep selection anyway. If you're looking for new stuff in the Seattle area, Silver Platters is the only place worth visiting. But we have dozens of good stores for used records and cd's. Yes, I miss Tower, Peaches, Borders, and all the rest.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 07, 2019, 09:55:44 AM



Is today the day?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 07, 2019, 10:04:09 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 07, 2019, 10:20:24 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?



Historical data:




Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 07, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
My stomach is churning with anticipation. That, or more stones! Either way something big is about to happen :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 07, 2019, 10:42:59 AM
OMG!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 08, 2019, 04:28:49 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?



Historical data:




Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.




It will be a Friday - since 2015 everything gets released on a Friday. (of course, New Zealand gets Friday before Europe or the US so most of us would know about it on the Thursday)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 10, 2019, 04:24:23 AM
UPDATE:

According to Reddit.

Digital stuff comes out this Friday.

And Bruce confirmed to a fan that the box set (physical!) is arriving February 2020

I’m in mobile so I can’t copy and paste but that’s the meat of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 04:59:29 AM
UPDATE:

According to Reddit.

Digital stuff comes out this Friday.

And Bruce confirmed to a fan that the box set (physical!) is arriving February 2020

I’m in mobile so I can’t copy and paste but that’s the meat of it.

Here's the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/)


Quote
Thanks to u/BlameTheDutch25 (Note: this is our member jiggy22) for clearly summing up what we’re expecting:

A set of material recorded in 1969, but not necessarily associated with the Sunflower album (stuff like Break Away, Celebrate the News, 'Til I Die Demo, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, etc.), will be coming out most likely this Friday, December 13th (digital streaming only).

At a November 17th show in Morro Bay, Al said they’re working on a box set with material from Sunflower and Surf’s Up (with “Feel Flows” as the working title). Bruce Johnston told u/HellaciousMedic at a recent BB show that a box set will come out in February 2020.

Obviously nothing is certain, this is just the best info we have so far. We do know legally we will be getting something soon so keep an eye out!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 10, 2019, 05:43:01 AM



The real new info comes from Bruce, the rest is (likely correct) speculation




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 07:32:13 AM
(Very likely) digital release in December
BW concert in January
Physical boxset in February

It's like 3 months of Christmas for me :-D

This is such great news about both sets. If there was any other era outside of PS and SMiLE that deserves a boxset it's Sunflower/Surf's Up. Cannot wait for this.

Thanks for the update, rebel! A Bruce confirmation is great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set WITH UPDATE
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 08:08:24 AM
Wow...this is awesome to hear, er, read!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set WITH UPDATE
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 10, 2019, 09:08:51 AM
Wow...this is awesome to hear, er, read!


!!!!!

Celebrate the News has pretty much the best outro/tag in the history of this band. At least for non-Brian material. It's certainly the most rocking. I dare anyone to listen to that outro at full volume and not move/headbang to the beat. I double dare ya.

Crossing my fingers we get some cool alternate versions of that song and a fresh mix.

Also, San Miguel needs a fresh mix in the worst way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 10, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
I can't wait for this! We're coming up to possibly my favorite Beach Boys era(the 1969 era tracks, and going into Sunflower followed by Surf's Up).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DennysDrums83 on December 10, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
I know it's still a few years away, but I would love to get a "In Concert" box set with a bunch of unreleased live tracks from 72-73 including "River Song", "Here She Comes", "Surf's Up", and "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 10, 2019, 04:40:19 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 05:04:37 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 05:06:25 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.
Absolutely. These invaluable works deserve much more respect from the record company and recognition from public.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 05:58:54 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 06:36:49 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 10, 2019, 07:10:49 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.

Ain't that the truth. I owe my fandom of this band to Cameron Crowe, due to the BBs infomercial he squeezed into his film "almost famous"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on December 11, 2019, 12:46:35 AM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.


Seriously. It’s probably the easiest and cheapest way to promote this stuff, especially if there’s digital only components or timed releases.

Brian’s Instagram did post a clip of him talking about Cool, Cool Water a couple days ago. Doesn’t mention any possibly upcoming release but it is like a little hint in a way, if you’re already thinking of it. Nice clip either way, he can’t remember the name of either a mellotron/Moog but he sounds real interested and in a good mood.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 11, 2019, 06:08:17 AM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.

Ain't that the truth. I owe my fandom of this band to Cameron Crowe, due to the BBs infomercial he squeezed into his film "almost famous"

I absolutely love that movie, and the inclusion of Feel Flows is icing on the cake. The movie that got me back into The Beach Boys in a serious way was 'De Ja Vu' - it's definitely not on 'Almost Famous' levels, but it just goes to show that no matter how odd the context of the marketing of this music, it can still resonate with people. That was 10+ years ago, and had I never seen that film I know my life would be completely different right now.
________

Thanks Slothrop for the heads up on the instagram post (https://www.instagram.com/p/B5sltnNhYHr/)! I would say that isn't a coincidence. Hopefully we get more of those leading up to February! I could listen to Brian explain music all day and never get tired of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on December 11, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
Friday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 11, 2019, 10:33:31 AM
That Instagram post is very interesting. Is it a new clip of him, or an older one that they just decided to use? The harmony part he sang was pretty nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on December 11, 2019, 12:16:55 PM
Friday.

or tomorrow (Thursday - US time zones) in New Zealand and Australia!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on December 11, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
That Instagram post is very interesting. Is it a new clip of him, or an older one that they just decided to use? The harmony part he sang was pretty nice.

Not sure but they don’t put a lot of references to Sunflower on his Instagram, so maybe (hopefully) it’s part of new interviews done for promotion of this period.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 11, 2019, 03:21:39 PM
I’m 100% sure the first part (Brian saying how much he loves Cool Cool Water) is from EH documentary. He then continues, and the keyboard discussion part I hadn’t heard before. Probably the same interview, just edited.


https://www.instagram.com/brianwilsonlive/?hl=en


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: marcella27 on December 11, 2019, 07:13:24 PM
Brian's impersonation of rooster is great.  "One of those...what do they call them?  A...rooster."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 12, 2019, 02:21:58 AM
Has anyone from AUS/NZ found anything yet?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 12, 2019, 02:26:11 AM
Has anyone from AUS/NZ found anything yet?
It should be 35 minutes until it's Friday in NZ. We'll see....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on December 12, 2019, 03:07:49 AM
I've got access to Aus/NZ/Vietnam stuff, but I don't know what I'm looking for... any ideas?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ReggieDunbar on December 12, 2019, 03:10:21 AM
I've got access to Aus/NZ/Vietnam stuff, but I don't know what I'm looking for... any ideas?

Keep on updating on their discography!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 12, 2019, 03:13:52 AM
Im from nz, nothing yet and its friday


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 12, 2019, 03:25:52 AM
I am so excited!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 12, 2019, 03:26:37 AM
Im from nz, nothing yet and its friday
oh no, that's too bad.

Guess it would be out on Dec 20 or 27? Or some outtakes from 1969 (which are, admittedly, not many) would be out of copyright...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on December 12, 2019, 05:21:24 AM
IIRC, the copyright motivation actually resulted from a misunderstanding of the law, which is why most artists (including the Beatles!) did them for a year or two and then stopped. The BBs continued because of fan interest. Seems like fans weren’t interested enough in last year’s for them to continue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on December 12, 2019, 06:01:23 AM
IIRC, the copyright motivation actually resulted from a misunderstanding of the law, which is why most artists (including the Beatles!) did them for a year or two and then stopped. The BBs continued because of fan interest. Seems like fans weren’t interested enough in last year’s for them to continue.

Not according to Mark Linett last year:

"It has a lot to do with 50-year copyright term limit in the U.K. and the E.U. for sound recordings. Back in 2013, some copyright tribunal amended that, and added 20 years to the term. But there was a sort of use-it-or-lose-it provision, which basically said unreleased recordings have to be officially released within 50 years of creation in order to get copyright protection. And I think they did this because in 2012, the first Beatles recordings were starting to fall into the public domain. It happened with the Beach Boys too — the Surfin’ Safari album in that territory is now public domain, because the registration wasn’t retroactive."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 12, 2019, 06:02:56 AM
Last year's collection was well received despite receiving very little promotion. No need for the sky to fall... yet.

The year by year trawl through the BB vaults seems to have continued unabated... hence the Murray set coming out next friday. Maybe everything is due to drop on the 20th.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 12, 2019, 07:02:59 AM
My understanding of the copyright law -- which admittedly is next to none -- is that it goes by the *songs themselves,* not the *performances*. That would explain why The Beatles only had one copyright extension release -- and even that one was kind of useless because every *song* in and of itself had been released at some point. Except for "Carnival of Sound," I can't think of any Beatles song in the vaults that hasn't had some kind of release.

But going through the Beach Boys' copyright extension releases:
The Big Beat 1963 had at least one previously unreleased song ("Thank Him")
Keep An Eye On Summer had a few
In 1965 and 1966 I don't think there really was anything; what The Beach Boys gave us was all bonus.
Sunshine Tomorrow had "All Day, All Night" and "Honey Get Home"
Wake the World had a good handful of previously unreleased titles

The thing is...if the Beach Boys were putting out collections that had *just* the unreleased titles, they'd be pretty small, so they were padded with some stuff that was obviously ear candy for us die-hards. There was no reason, for example, to release any of the concert stuff, because none of those titles were in danger of copyright expiration, but we got 'em anyway.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 12, 2019, 07:47:00 AM
Regarding the level of fan interest for the end-of-year “Copyright Extension” comps, while I don’t have any sales numbers, I would tend to think that these releases don’t sell in huge numbers, but Capitol/BRI know that ahead of time. I don’t think everything prior to the ’68 comps was selling a great deal more than the ’68 stuff. Also, these releases tend to have a pretty minimal budget. They have to pay for the stuff to be mixed and mastered (and sometimes not even mixed when vintage mixes are used). But it’s all material that’s already there. It’s pretty close to free money, especially the digital-only releases where there’s no manufacturing overhead costs.

In a few cases, Capitol/UMe and BRI have highlighted key/important material that’s worth doing physical releases for. I’d gather that a 70/71-ish boxed set early next year would be such a case, and they’d do something a bit more elaborate to make it worth a physical purchase.

From everything I’ve heard/seen, I’d tend to doubt that all of a sudden they’re going to cut off any further archival releases.

As for the “Copyright Extension” aspect and whether they *need* to be putting this stuff out, as far as I know it seems to be a case of there being some conflicting, contrary interpretations of the law, but that the “safe” thing to do is at the very least put out any unreleased songs that weren’t released in the past in order to more safely protect them under copyright. As previously mentioned, it seems that the only stuff that *need* protection are songs not previously released. That’s why the first ’63 release, “Big Beat ‘63”, was only full of weird odds and ends like “Thank Him”. Subsequently, it does appear that for the most part each successive year’s release has been a case of grabbing the hand full of songs that *need* protection, and then filling the sets out with stuff for fans (and also putting stuff that will at least lead to hundreds or a few thousand copies being sold rather than only 85 copies if it’s just like an EP with nothing but “Endless Sleep” and “Christmas Eve”).

There are no doubt grey areas in this copyright law. What if a 1967 demo for “Life is for the Living” surfaced? Would it then immediately put the “Adult Child” version in public domain because it’s now established that it’s over 50 years old and hasn’t been protected?

We know that having released any take of, say, “Fun Fun Fun” therefore protects all “work parts” for that eventual master. But what about completely different sessions? What if a 1968 session tape for “Sweet and Bitter” exists?

Also, it seems unclear as to how live recordings are classified. It would seem one interpretation is that the recording itself has to be protected, thus the huge dumps of extant live recordings in some previous years. But obviously as we get into the 70s, I doubt BRI is going to put out every extant recording from that decade.

Going back to the mention of the Beatles ’63 “extension” set, that one was odd. It had a bunch of raw ’63 session tapes, but not *all* of them. A bunch of takes of “There’s a Place”, but still missing some that circulate. Not sure what that was about. And if indeed it’s a case of only needing to protect unreleased songs, then indeed due to the small number of unique unreleased song titles (all of which made it onto archival releases save “Carnival of Light”, which did technically get one public airing at some show/exhibit some years back), the Beatles releases aren’t needed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 12, 2019, 11:06:59 AM
I'm in Ireland. Was expecting it to be out tonight past 12 but its not looking good


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 12, 2019, 11:08:06 AM
Ok, here's a weird question; do informal studio jams count as unreleased songs?  ;D I was just reading the Beatles recording sessions book, and I noticed a few entries where the group apparently did some sessions of just raw jamming during the Sgt Pepper sessions. Would they count as songs? I have a feeling that the Get Back session tapes would be extremely difficult to sort out from a legal perspective, because it would come down to trying to define what would be considered and "unreleased song", and what would be considered just an impromptu jam made up on the spot for fun.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on December 12, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
7.00am Friday in Sydney - nothing on itunes or spotify yet


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 12, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
I’m watching this thread like a hawk awaiting news...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 12, 2019, 12:16:12 PM
I’m watching this thread like a hawk awaiting news...

Me too. This is really disappointing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 12, 2019, 12:16:51 PM
BTW, I looked at the Reddit post again...it actually says "digital streaming only." Does that mean it won't be downloadable??? (Note to self...log into that Reddit account I never use and ask questions.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 12, 2019, 12:32:31 PM
When I see people say "streaming", it can mean either.

Some folks have taken to using "streaming" as a term for video or audio that encompasses all digital formats, including actual streaming (e.g. Spotify, Pandora, etc. for audio, or Netflix/Amazon or digital rentals for video) as well as digital *purchases* (e.g. actual downloadable audio files, or the "purchase" of digital video for full retail price, which usually still entails *streaming* the purchase rather than downloading it).

I sense the audio world has become even more polarized/extreme; people either go for physical releases or, if they're fine with digital, they often just go with Spotify rather than *buying* MP3s on Amazon, etc.

That being said, there hasn't been any digital-only release in terms of these BB "extension" releases that has been literally "streaming only", they've always been made available on Amazon for download, iTunes (or whatever Apple is calling their store now), and other digital audio retailers who often sell lossless and high-rez downloads.

Given how a large contingent of Beach Boys fans in my experience (no offense intended) tend to be well behind the cutting edge or even mainstream of how audio is consumed, they would be severely limiting their audience by only streaming a new BB "extension" release.

I'd say the main thing that would need to be clarified if they still do a digital release this month and also intend to do a physical boxed set sort of thing in a few months from now, is if the physical release will have any or all of the content of the earlier digital release, or if they are separately themed collections. The one reddit blurb implies the digital release coming first would catch 1969 odds and ends that need to be released before the end of 2019 that fall outside the purview of whatever the physical release will be. But I dunno.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on December 12, 2019, 03:18:34 PM
I'll buy digital files, but am not interested in anything that requires me to buy a subscription.

Also waiting for release news, like everyone else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on December 12, 2019, 03:54:43 PM
Not a single person in the know has said a digital release is coming this year. Given the lack of content thus far I would temper expectations accordingly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 12, 2019, 04:13:24 PM
Nope.. Not out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 12, 2019, 07:01:22 PM
Ok, here's a weird question; do informal studio jams count as unreleased songs?  ;D I was just reading the Beatles recording sessions book, and I noticed a few entries where the group apparently did some sessions of just raw jamming during the Sgt Pepper sessions. Would they count as songs? I have a feeling that the Get Back session tapes would be extremely difficult to sort out from a legal perspective, because it would come down to trying to define what would be considered and "unreleased song", and what would be considered just an impromptu jam made up on the spot for fun.
Yes, they count. An improvisation is a composition. Its creator(s) hold(s) the copyright at the moment of its creation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on December 12, 2019, 11:16:12 PM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on December 13, 2019, 02:13:48 AM
IIRC, the copyright motivation actually resulted from a misunderstanding of the law, which is why most artists (including the Beatles!) did them for a year or two and then stopped. The BBs continued because of fan interest. Seems like fans weren’t interested enough in last year’s for them to continue.

Not according to Mark Linett last year:

"It has a lot to do with 50-year copyright term limit in the U.K. and the E.U. for sound recordings. Back in 2013, some copyright tribunal amended that, and added 20 years to the term. But there was a sort of use-it-or-lose-it provision, which basically said unreleased recordings have to be officially released within 50 years of creation in order to get copyright protection. And I think they did this because in 2012, the first Beatles recordings were starting to fall into the public domain. It happened with the Beach Boys too — the Surfin’ Safari album in that territory is now public domain, because the registration wasn’t retroactive."

But The Beatles and Beach Boys stuff was released

I see these things as copyrighting things like sessions or alternate takes


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 13, 2019, 02:34:43 AM
Nothing as of this morning. I have a feeling it'll be out next Friday with the Murray EP.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 02:50:53 AM
Murry EP?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 02:58:56 AM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.
Exactly. Is "Commonwealth" a "song", or just an impromptu half mumbled piss take of the politics of the day? But then again, it can never hurt to copyright something just for the simple reason that it exists, right?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 13, 2019, 03:07:08 AM
Murry EP?
This one: https://omnivorerecordings.com/product-tag/murry-wilson/ (https://omnivorerecordings.com/product-tag/murry-wilson/)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 13, 2019, 08:33:28 AM
While it’s certainly up in the air as far as whether a digital download release will occur in the next 18 days, all chatter and indications seem to suggest a Sunflower/Surf’s Up set of some sort is in the works. It may well be that we only see a physical release, which obviously at this stage wouldn’t be taking place until a few months into the new year.

But what I’m pretty sure of is that the digital copyright extension releases have not been canceled due to “lack of fan interest” or anything of that nature. The digital releases have less overhead and are easier (and often cheaper) for fans to buy, and there are indications a *physical* boxed set is coming at some point, which would suggest a hope on the part of Capitol and/or BRI that there will be *increased* interest in this next release rather than diminished interest.

Going back to last year when the cache of ’68 live shows was released, it was established that BRI has essentially nothing in the vaults as far as live ’69 soundboard/multitrack recordings. So we already knew we weren’t getting the type of multi-tiered digital release that we got for 1968.

The only reason a digital release would need to happen by the end of 2019 is if there still is an assumption that as-yet-unreleased songs need to be protected, *and* there are unreleased song titles recorded in 1969 that are firmly established as hitting 50 years before the end of 2019 (not sure what happens when a song was recorded across 1969 and 1970 for instance). I’d still guess there are a few things recorded in 1969 that are still unreleased. I believe there were ’69 sessions for “I’m Going Your Way”, and some other odds and ends (“Over the Waves”, etc.). It’s true that most ’69 material is either already protected by having come out on “Sunflower”, or other archival releases in the past. “Soulful Old Man Sunshine”, “Loop de Loop”, “Where is She”, and so on, have already been covered.

Who knows. Maybe they want to put the remaining ’69 outtakes on a physical boxed set, and don’t want to make fans double dip by buying a digital download in December and then the physical set. Perhaps BRI will do some weird dump online only onto streaming services of just ’69 odds and ends?

I’m not too concerned by the timing of this stuff. The main concern is whether a BB release can still get bogged down in politics. I mean, *of course* it can and probably usually does. But it seems like in the last 10-20 years, it has mostly been small issues with track selection rather than some huge set being prepped only for a band member to try to cancel the whole thing.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 13, 2019, 08:38:31 AM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.
Exactly. Is "Commonwealth" a "song", or just an impromptu half mumbled piss take of the politics of the day? But then again, it can never hurt to copyright something just for the simple reason that it exists, right?

In the case of the "Let It Be" sessions, they did indeed copyright every "song" that appeared in the film. So they copyrighted "Suzy's Parlour" (credited to all four), the off-the-cuff "Jazz Piano Song" (credited to Paul and Ringo), and even Paul's opening piano piece as "Paul's Piano Piece" even though it's Paul trying to sort of riff on Barber's "Adagio for Strings."

All that "Commonwealth/Enoch Powell" jam session stuff certainly is formed enough with enough chord changes and lyrics that it could be copyrighted (and likely will if it's released next year with whatever they're putting out to go along with the Peter Jackson film thing).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 13, 2019, 10:01:51 AM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 13, 2019, 11:42:12 AM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think there will be some sort of supplemental Smile Sessions release in the future.  Mark and Alan did a wonderful job on the 2011 box, and they and Capitol undoubtedly intended it to be the definitive treatment of its subject.   And yet, I, probably like many Smile fans, have never really shed the idea that there's still some unreleased Smile something out there that'd be worth hearing.   And, there's also the lingering fantasy that audio reels from the David Oppenheim film will finally turn up and reveal some missing material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 11:43:37 AM
One thing that I really hope they do is get Stephen Desper involved in doing mastering of the full Sunflower and Surf's Up albums as part of this set. I know we all have these albums, but if we can get versions that sound as good as those study videos Mr Desper did, I'd gladly buy them again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 13, 2019, 12:37:47 PM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think there will be some sort of supplemental Smile Sessions release in the future.  Mark and Alan did a wonderful job on the 2011 box, and they and Capitol undoubtedly intended it to be the definitive treatment of its subject.   And yet, I, probably like many Smile fans, have never really shed the idea that there's still some unreleased Smile something out there that'd be worth hearing.   And, there's also the lingering fantasy that audio reels from the David Oppenheim film will finally turn up and reveal some missing material.

Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 13, 2019, 01:13:02 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 13, 2019, 03:19:38 PM


The "Feel Flow" set and "On Tour: 1969" are now on Spotify...





it's what I would say if they were on Spotify.  ;D




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 13, 2019, 06:28:24 PM
Got me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 13, 2019, 06:29:29 PM
Not I. :3d


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 13, 2019, 08:03:02 PM
Knowing "On Tour: 1969" is very unlikely to happen, it didn't get me.


I wish that post were real though....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: AKA on December 14, 2019, 03:06:40 AM


The "Feel Flow" set and "On Tour: 1969" are now on Spotify...





it's what I would say if they were on Spotify.  ;D




https://youtu.be/mDEtCeeSp2k


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 14, 2019, 07:44:10 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: coco1997 on December 14, 2019, 09:08:39 AM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 14, 2019, 02:40:25 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.

It's almost like he's making this stuff up  :eggcellent


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 05:33:24 PM
On EH, SaltyMarshmallow said:

Quote
Some better info than just guesses suggests the 27th is more likely for something. Soundscan entries for I'm Going Your Way and Carnival have appeared with that date.

http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/16933/thread (http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/16933/thread)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 05:34:48 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.

It's almost like he's making this stuff up  :eggcellent
Nobody is making stuff up. It's just speculation based on a few non-firsthand info posted on forums, to begin with.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 14, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
So far the speculation has been ridiculously wrong...so...why not wait for official word instead of relying on the guessing and speculation and whatever is posted on other forums?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 07:49:59 PM
So far the speculation has been ridiculously wrong...so...why not wait for official word instead of relying on the guessing and speculation and whatever is posted on other forums?
Chances are that there wouldn't be any "official word" (if you mean official announcement by that) on this year's copyright set before its actual release.
Last year, (if I recall correctly) even Alan Boyd and Mark Linett had no idea about the release date until "Wake the World" and "I Can Hear Music" sets were released.

There would definitely be official promotion if a box set were to happen, though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 14, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on December 15, 2019, 05:05:54 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...

At the very end of the 1966 Child Is Father of the Man track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 16, 2019, 01:23:07 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...

Indeed. Please start that topic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 16, 2019, 08:48:22 AM
Regarding the continued speculation and guessing and all of that, while anything too outlandish or unrealistic isn’t really conducive to anything, I don’t think speculation and guessing is uncalled for.

Yes, these “extension” drops have almost always been done with weirdly *zero* publicity. In fact, we’ve never really had a firm answer as to why neither Capitol/UMe publicize these sets ahead of time (other than maybe a few days in a few cases?), and do very little publicity even after the sets drop (I recall a few articles last year, though I honestly can’t remember whether Capitol or BRI did any sort of press release or if it was just music writers writing about the ’68 sets). It’s almost as if there’s some edict or agreement that these sets can only happen if they’re *not* heavily publicized. I dunno.

These sets will always have a pretty narrow audience, but I can’t fathom that releasing some info on the digital sets a few weeks ahead of time would do anything but *help* those releases. A little bit of hype and excitement wouldn’t be a bad thing. Why not pluck a track or two out and tease them? I suspect something like that might occur next year for a bigger, possible physical release of something. But it costs Capitol and BRI virtually nothing to do just drop a quick press release a few weeks ahead of time for an “extension” set, nor to pick a track or two and plop them on YouTube and other services to tease the releases. It’s why I wonder if the idea with these copyright extension “dumps” of material is that most parties (apart from those trying to get the band and the label to celebrate their back catalog) feel it’s best to keep these things low key.

In any event, while we shouldn’t expect anything other than radio silence given most of the sets from past years (the exceptions usually being the few that got physical releases), the radio silence leaves us with little else to do but speculate and guess. I think that sort of stuff when based on some sort of logic or reasoning (past years’ patterns, public listings that people dig into, etc.) is fine, and fun.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 16, 2019, 10:12:24 AM
Totally agree Hey Jude.  Speculation is what the message boards are for.  In the old days we'd meet other fans and speculate in person or over the phone.  This is the same thing.  I think it's a lot of fun.  Some people get annoyed by it.  They don't have to read it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 16, 2019, 11:19:07 AM
2HeyJude: "Hype" & speculation may be, wellll, helpful but it's definitely not fun - this date shifting "this Friday", "No, next Friday", "forget it, next next next Friday" is really pain in the neck. & extremely hilarious at the same time. :-D Didn't even think that random user at light trifle site reddit would even be listened & everybody seriously excited by his/her date guesses. Now it really makes sense. #makessense100% #wowamazingnews!!!  #WeGetItAnyFridayWoohoo!!! :3d #WhoSpeculatesCorrectDateWillWin3-storeyMansion

 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on December 16, 2019, 12:26:31 PM
the type of speculating the merits of which are being questioned here is, of course, by intent or happenstance, speculating the wrong thing

don't waste time speculating when but instead WHY

at such an 11th hour position we'd think all details of the release would be sewn up tight.  a delay like this can only mean they still aren't

so what/who is holding up the 'done deal'?

i.e., material (recorded or written) proved not as represented or inexplicably not delivered, terms as written were not as discussed or presumed, rights to material were omitted or failed, financial figures still being haggled about, much more editing work required than had been thought to make it as presentable as desired,  agreements by principals not signed, marketing studies changing on a daily basis, mistakes discovered only after the passage of 50 years

those are all unknowns to us, without being tipped and that may happen in the crunch of things


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 16, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
Calling it a delay implies they intended to release it one of the last two weeks - which we've already established we have no evidence of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 16, 2019, 02:55:48 PM
I'll be frank...until I get some sort of real proof that something's happening, it's not happening. I've heard diddly sh*t all year about this until the recent Reddit post. Don't know why I let that sway me for a bit; quite possibly wishful thinking on my part


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 17, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Like much of the speculation, it depends on what definitions of terms we’re using. Can we safely call anything a “delay” in this case? I don’t know. There are multiple types of delays. There are cases were a release date is announced, and a delay pushes it back. That’s certainly *not* the case here, where no release has been announced. However, there are of course internal delays. A release may have been in the offing with a tentative date that got pushed back. Let’s remember that even in cases where there absolutely *has* to be a release by the end of the year for copyright purposes, they for whatever reason always wait until the last few weeks of December to do it. So I never assume anything is coming, and when it seems that it *is* coming, I always just assume December 31 until I hear otherwise.

As a beleaguered long-time BB fan, I know never to assume *anything*. However, I’m not sure why there are suppositions that there is like *zero* indication of something coming. Two band members have indicated something is coming, if only in physical form in the coming months. Unless someone is just making s**t up, those Soundscan entries for song titles with dates tied to them are certainly pretty compelling if circumstantial evidence. And yes, there have been other “rumblings” from a variety of sources throughout the year.

My guess some time back was that we were going to get sort of a “Sunshine Tomorrow” or “Party Unplugged” sort of situation where a physical release ran concurrent with a digital counterpart (with either identical content or a digital “sequel” like we got for the ’67 stuff). I wonder if a physical set release has seen any number of easily imaginable delays (it’s the BBs and BRI we’re talking about here, and we’re also talking about an era in the band’s career where the non-Brian members have a larger stake/interest in the material since they were writing and singing and producing more of it, hence more potential negotiating and vetoing, etc.), and maybe the plan changed relatively late in the game to secure the needed material for protection by the end of this year in digital form. Then, in turn, they’d still need everybody to sign off, and they’d probably still want to not make it another “Big Beat ‘63” with only odds and ends of limited interest, so they may still want to fashion something more presentable in the mode of the ’67 and ’68 studio sets.

But I’m not annoyed by the speculation; it’s fun. And this is coming from someone who has for DECADES now been saber-rattling about opening up the archives, that those archives are frankly more interesting and important than any live tours or new studio material to be honest. There’s a team in there now working on this, and if *that* team can’t make the BBs/BRI open up the archives, then nothing will make that happen short of scenarios we don’t want, namely when the BRI members are deceased, by which time even the 90s hipster fans the bands gained will be headed towards collecting social security.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 19, 2019, 03:02:25 AM
Well, its Friday in New Zealand and
... no new releases :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 19, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 19, 2019, 08:36:49 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?
Bruce also mentioned the box.  And it would be coming out in 2020 at this point.  We are just hoping for an additional 1969 digital release (similar to something like Sunshine Tomorrow Part 2) to drop tomorrow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 19, 2019, 08:48:46 AM
Maybe next Friday...

(wishful thinking on my part)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 19, 2019, 08:55:14 AM
This new digital set is sure to sell a million units....... in January!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 19, 2019, 09:02:35 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?

If there are any unreleased songs from the Sunflower/Surf's Up era that were recorded in 1969, then they'd need to be released by year end. Something akin to “Walkin’” or "Well You Know I Knew", which were recorded during the 20/20 sessions in 1968.

I'd be surprised if there's not at least a digital release of live performances, perhaps with a few studio recordings tacked on to ensure copyright protection (if there are any).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 19, 2019, 10:57:45 AM
Well, its Friday in New Zealand and
... no new releases :(

Was hoping to have it for Christmas like last year. That's a shame


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 19, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
Does this mean I’ll be able to do Fig Plucker without any retribution? Asking for a friend... :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 19, 2019, 04:41:12 PM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 20, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
I think we can at least conclude what they don't want to include on a theoretical box set. Perhaps that's what we got today!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 20, 2019, 05:02:34 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 20, 2019, 05:53:19 AM
Does this mean I’ll be able to do Fig Plucker without any retribution? Asking for a friend... :lol

If these type of tracks are not released by 23:59, December, 31, 2019, they will fall into public domain, at least within the EU, correct?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 07:18:43 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 20, 2019, 08:11:21 AM
Maybe the separate release of the Murry tracks should have been a clue. If we were getting another copyright dump this year, wouldn't they have just been thrown in the big pile like the past curios we've received, Audree's vocal track from last year, etc? I think this is it for 2019.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2019, 09:26:14 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I suppose in the "anything is possible" category, that might be something to worry about.

But what was the last Beach Boys mainstream (meaning Capitol/UMe/BRI) release that *wasn't* released digitally? Indeed, the main mode for these "Copyright Extension" releases has been *digital-only*, with a few also seeing physical release.

It is possible they'd put something exclusive on a 2020 Sunflower/Surf's Up boxed set? Perhaps. But I mean, with even large lavish boxed sets, they often carry most if not everything over to digital releases, down to the elaborate booklets and even video content.

I'd say there's a small chance there might be some small component of an eventual boxed set release that doesn't carry over to digital. I'd say it's as close to impossible as one can fathom that they'll do some sort of multi-disc boxed set and *not* release that on any digital formats.

At this stage, there are more vinyl-only exclusives than CD-only exclusives.

Really, those who only do digital/streaming aren't the ones that need to worry when it comes to music releases. They're covered by Spotify and others for streaming, Amazon and others for digital MP3 purchase, and other online retailers often for lossless and high-rez options.

And frankly, while I'm all for putting all this stuff out on any and all formats to get to the widest audience possible, I can't say a huge amount of consideration needs to given to someone who doesn't even have a CD player or disc drive to rip a CD, based on the one in a million chance that Capitol and BRI would do a CD-only release. I get it, PCs don't come with disc drives anymore and even I often end up ripping CDs to my iPod, etc. rather than playing CDs. If there was any precedent for not putting stuff out digitally, then I'd worry about those who literally have no means to play or rip a CD. But I don't think that's going to be a problem.

And even if some rando track is exclusive to a potential CD set, it'll probably be up on YouTube in short order for everyone to hear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 20, 2019, 10:18:21 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I mean, we can speculate to the farthest fringes of our imaginations (ie maybe they'll be releasing this set vinyl only - which is a ridiculous thought when you think about all the demos, live tracks, backing tracks, vocals-only tracks we could be getting with this set), but if we look at what they've done in the past, and what makes the record company the most money in this era, the reality is this:

Every physical boxset this band has released post-iTunes has had a digital release as well - sales would nosedive if they made this physical/CD release only. In an age where more and more computers are without CD drives and nearly every form of media conforms to our mobile digital lifestyle, I can't imagine that the record company would do this. Such an act would be inviting piracy - as in, many don't have a CD drive to even play this music, so of course they'd pirate what they can't access legally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2019, 10:32:52 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I suppose in the "anything is possible" category, that might be something to worry about.

But what was the last Beach Boys mainstream (meaning Capitol/UMe/BRI) release that *wasn't* released digitally? Indeed, the main mode for these "Copyright Extension" releases has been *digital-only*, with a few also seeing physical release.

It is possible they'd put something exclusive on a 2020 Sunflower/Surf's Up boxed set? Perhaps. But I mean, with even large lavish boxed sets, they often carry most if not everything over to digital releases, down to the elaborate booklets and even video content.

I'd say there's a small chance there might be some small component of an eventual boxed set release that doesn't carry over to digital. I'd say it's as close to impossible as one can fathom that they'll do some sort of multi-disc boxed set and *not* release that on any digital formats.

At this stage, there are more vinyl-only exclusives than CD-only exclusives.

Really, those who only do digital/streaming aren't the ones that need to worry when it comes to music releases. They're covered by Spotify and others for streaming, Amazon and others for digital MP3 purchase, and other online retailers often for lossless and high-rez options.

And frankly, while I'm all for putting all this stuff out on any and all formats to get to the widest audience possible, I can't say a huge amount of consideration needs to given to someone who doesn't even have a CD player or disc drive to rip a CD, based on the one in a million chance that Capitol and BRI would do a CD-only release. I get it, PCs don't come with disc drives anymore and even I often end up ripping CDs to my iPod, etc. rather than playing CDs. If there was any precedent for not putting stuff out digitally, then I'd worry about those who literally have no means to play or rip a CD. But I don't think that's going to be a problem.

And even if some rando track is exclusive to a potential CD set, it'll probably be up on YouTube in short order for everyone to hear.
I think I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about a box set *and* a separate digital archival release, whereas you meant a digital version of the physical box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 20, 2019, 11:17:09 AM
Maybe Reddit has the answers.  ;D :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2019, 01:02:10 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 01:52:16 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 20, 2019, 02:15:57 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.

Small record companies are tossed format crumbs to license because big labels throw no bones.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 21, 2019, 06:46:20 AM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Cover_of_Cabin_Essence_single_by_The_Beach_Boys.jpeg)

Do you guys remember the Cabin Essence 45 that came out prior to The Smile Sessions release? It was a giveaway or something with MOJO magazine, everyone here wanted a digital rip of it because that specific mix was only available via that vinyl freebie (up until TSS release, that is). I think I remember some posters getting annoyed by the amount of PM requests :lol good times.

As for the Feel Flows set, unless they want to drastically lose money on this set I highly doubt it'll be vinyl only.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 21, 2019, 08:48:07 AM
Great point rab.  They might want to do some decent promotion for this set - especially since Sunflower was named one of the top 500 albums ever and is not well known among the masses.  So they may be doing a similar thing they did with Smile Sessions - magazine and TV interviews, an advance single, record store promos, etc.  It makes sense if we are not getting a 1969 digital release and with what Al and Bruce have let slip.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 21, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
I would love to see a full on promotional campaign for this. I said it before (more specifically for any possible late-2019 digital release), but even some social media posts pushing this set would go a long way. I would love to see a wide range of interviews, sneak-peak 30 second snippets of select songs, as Ram4 says an advanced single would be awesome (in both Digital and 45 form).

To add to my Feel Flows boxset wishlist: I would also really like a Sunflower or Surf's Up poster (like the SMiLE poster we got in TSS). I have all my Beach Boys posters hanging up in my office, would love to add another classic to the collection.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 21, 2019, 01:38:15 PM
Some folk here may disagree, but I consider Sunflower to be their most significant release since Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on December 22, 2019, 04:09:52 AM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 22, 2019, 06:06:10 AM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion

Did you really mean that? Pet Sounds was Brian. He doled out vocal parts in order to make it a Beach Boys record.

Sunflower is great and, in its own little way, Friends is a mighty fine collective effort.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 22, 2019, 07:49:27 AM
I always consider Pet Sounds to be Brian's best production (even though I'd rather listen to Beach Boys Today! most of the time), and Sunflower to be the best group effort.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 22, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion

Did you really mean that? Pet Sounds was Brian. He doled out vocal parts in order to make it a Beach Boys record.

Sunflower is great and, in its own little way, Friends is a mighty fine collective effort.

Agreed. I love the way Friends was created - I think it was Brian's last true effort at fully producing and completing a Beach Boys album. I love that everyone got to pitch in with music, instruments, ideas, but Brian was there co-writing and producing every song (even the one song he wasn't credited on). That album has such a varied style yet it's all so cohesive.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 23, 2019, 06:50:38 AM
I prefer Friends to Sunflower, but it is nevertheless a fine album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FatherOfTheMan Sr101 on December 23, 2019, 08:02:47 AM
Friends is a summer album and Sunflower is a fall album, both are perfect :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 23, 2019, 10:32:07 AM
Friends is more of a winter album for me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 23, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
For me, Friends = summer
Sunflower = anytime


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 23, 2019, 12:17:48 PM
I, too, prefer Friends to Sunflower, but also agree that the latter is great in its own way.

As for the seasons, Friends to me is a spring album - newborn life, waking the world, young love, it's the young adult years of a man who has just started a family. Even the cover art feels like the fresh green of spring.

Agreed with c-man, Sunflower = anytime.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 23, 2019, 01:30:57 PM
"Friends" has often been my favorite Beach Boys album since I first heard it in the mid 1990's. "Sunflower" has also often been my favorite album of theirs too. I can't make up my mind.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 26, 2019, 03:01:32 AM
It's not much, but we have something!! 27th in NZ!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 05:16:28 AM
Apparently on Spotify NZ

The Beach Boys 1969: I'm Going Your Way

I'm Going Your Way (Alternate Vocal Take)
Slip On Through (Early Version)
Carnival (Over the Waves) - looks like it is a 2:43 minute version






Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 06:57:58 AM
The cover art confirms what the track listing tells us, which is that this is a barebones legal requirement release, nothing more (though perhaps they only needed to put the two tracks out and just threw an extra Dennis outtake on there because why not).

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80551310_2448873675382648_608037966043938816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=_TRf6PRYqscAQnTVIlPKut3WKDnKrMlPLEmbrk_UX70YBF_wyhcXEj8_w&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=515ee0f48935cab4cffccdfeb2b84f6a&oe=5E74F513)

The only question remaining is whether these three tracks will also be out on the eventual boxed set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on December 26, 2019, 07:19:16 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 07:31:55 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

Again, I think this is a quiet copyright extension dump; stuff that *had* to be put out by end of year (and even then, only two of the three I'm guessing). The good stuff comes in X number of months in 2020.

This 3-song "EP" would be a supremely odd item to particularly promote. The Dennis songs are cool, sure. "Carnival" is more of a curiosity than a truly good song. I'm guessing if they *weren't* doing some sort of more thorough boxed set in the coming year, they would have filled this set out similar to what they've done for 1967 and 68.

I mean, I guess they could have pushed this as a teaser for a forthcoming boxed set, but perhaps they're still hashing out that boxed set.

But we can (hopefully) kind of just treat this is a pseudo-teaser for a forthcoming set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 07:54:34 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 08:28:17 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?

It was mentioned last year that BRI has virtually nothing in the vaults as far as 1969 live soundboard/multitrack recordings.

There is that French show aired on French TV that is available for purchase as a video download; presumably BRI does not own that footage. Other than small bits here and there, there's nothing but a few audience recordings.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on December 26, 2019, 08:39:46 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

Again, I think this is a quiet copyright extension dump; stuff that *had* to be put out by end of year (and even then, only two of the three I'm guessing). The good stuff comes in X number of months in 2020.

This 3-song "EP" would be a supremely odd item to particularly promote. The Dennis songs are cool, sure. "Carnival" is more of a curiosity than a truly good song. I'm guessing if they *weren't* doing some sort of more thorough boxed set in the coming year, they would have filled this set out similar to what they've done for 1967 and 68.

I mean, I guess they could have pushed this as a teaser for a forthcoming boxed set, but perhaps they're still hashing out that boxed set.

But we can (hopefully) kind of just treat this is a pseudo-teaser for a forthcoming set.

That's fair, but even as a teaser I'd at least expect the social media accounts to give it a mention in advance of it coming out. It's not much of a trailer if the only people who know about it are...on these forums, actively scanning for something.

The artwork (or lack of it) says a lot. Just saying, must be frustrating for those who work on these things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 09:01:33 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?

It was mentioned last year that BRI has virtually nothing in the vaults as far as 1969 live soundboard/multitrack recordings.

There is that French show aired on French TV that is available for purchase as a video download; presumably BRI does not own that footage. Other than small bits here and there, there's nothing but a few audience recordings.

Yikes! That is incredible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 26, 2019, 09:17:39 AM
Wow this is disappointing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 09:28:58 AM
People, while this is the BBs and any future plans could unravel at any time, I'd argue the nature of this "extension" drop actually lends more credence to the idea that a larger, more substantive release is coming. If this was a full disc's worth of rando '69 outtakes, I'd say that might suggest the larger set Al and Bruce have spoken about was not coming.

A quick trawl of recording dates and song lists, as was pointed out by other folks including myself in recent weeks, indicated that only two songs were recorded in 1969 and thus far not released in any form: "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival."

I'm not understanding the disappointment, this weird EP actually potentially portends a larger release; we obviously just have to wait longer.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on December 26, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Guys, anyone have any idea who arranged "Carnival (Over the Waves) on this release? Was it Brian in particular or is this unknown?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on December 26, 2019, 12:44:07 PM
... And does anyone know whereabouts I can check its credits myself too? Thanks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 26, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
Here is ESQ’s reporting on the CE releases: https://esquarterly.com/2019/12/26/the-beach-boys-im-going-your-way-digital-ep/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 01:26:00 PM
5 discs?! Holy mother of f***.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 26, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
Here is ESQ’s reporting on the CE releases: https://esquarterly.com/2019/12/26/the-beach-boys-im-going-your-way-digital-ep/

What reporting? It's the same info that was posted here and elsewhere including the ep that was reported here when it dropped earlier. Unnamed sources?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 02:53:29 PM
It's interesting that on the copyright extension ep they would note that the version of I'm Going Your Way is an "alternate vocal take", when the other original version hasn't even been officially released. Why would they differentiate between the two, but only release one? That little bit of info isn't even going to resonate to anybody but the most hardcore fan base.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 26, 2019, 04:14:52 PM


At this point, which tracks recorded in 1969 have not been officially released yet?

I can think of "What Can The Matter Be ?", but is there anything else?
Could it be that, simply, there were not expiring tracks in need to be released this year?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 04:41:15 PM
I'm still  bit confused about the terminology and specifics of what falls under the category of being a candidate for copyright extension. Are actual unreleased songs themselves the most important and top priority? Do alternate takes or session excerpts of commercially released songs count for copyright extension?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 26, 2019, 05:09:08 PM
Carnival is one of those BB's songs that only us hardcores could ever appreciate  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 26, 2019, 05:20:33 PM
It's interesting that on the copyright extension ep they would note that the version of I'm Going Your Way is an "alternate vocal take", when the other original version hasn't even been officially released. Why would they differentiate between the two, but only release one? That little bit of info isn't even going to resonate to anybody but the most hardcore fan base.

This essentially confirms that the song will be included in the upcoming box set in a more complete form IMO. By releasing an alternate version, they can fulfill the copyright requirement but save the proper version for the box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 05:24:14 PM


At this point, which tracks recorded in 1969 have not been officially released yet?

I can think of "What Can The Matter Be ?", but is there anything else?
Could it be that, simply, there were not expiring tracks in need to be released this year?






Don’t forget Fig Plucker


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 26, 2019, 06:43:44 PM
Apparently on Spotify NZ

The Beach Boys 1969: I'm Going Your Way

I'm Going Your Way (Alternate Vocal Take)
Slip On Through (Early Version)
Carnival (Over the Waves) - looks like it is a 2:43 minute version






Now on Spotify US.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
I can't find it on Spotify.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 26, 2019, 07:03:27 PM
I can't find it on Spotify.

I also can’t find it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 26, 2019, 08:43:34 PM
Try this link:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2qJkNuNWv8E2vogifmYUOc


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Fall Breaks on December 26, 2019, 10:35:21 PM
Thanks Wata!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 10:38:22 PM
Thanks for posting the link!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 27, 2019, 05:05:07 AM
They are also on the Beach Boys Youtube channel as well.

Can't wait to hear more. All three are in great quality and it feels like a tease we'll have to wait for the rest.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 27, 2019, 06:17:34 AM
Here are direct YouTube links for those not otherwise inclined to trawl the web:

I'm Going Your Way - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omZqahnNaVM

Slip on Through - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S0D-9ri9pw

Carnival - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUp1LtH3TU


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on December 27, 2019, 06:44:36 AM
Thanks for posting the links, HeyJude. This definitely whets the appetite for the full box set.

The new tracks are now available on Amazon and iTunes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on December 27, 2019, 06:49:46 AM
What an interesting song.  Just my opinion, but I think if they had really worked on this and come up with a catchy guitar riff it could have had some staying power.  Imagine an album called California Slide.  What a cool name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 27, 2019, 07:02:40 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on December 27, 2019, 07:31:51 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 

When "I'm Going Your Way" was first booted, I couldn't understand why it was never released.  Perhaps the Manson connection.  This "new" version has me scratching my head even more.  It  would have fit nicely on the "Once Upon A Time in LA" soundtrack.  Kudos to Mark & Alan!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 08:44:57 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 

When "I'm Going Your Way" was first booted, I couldn't understand why it was never released.  Perhaps the Manson connection.  This "new" version has me scratching my head even more.  It  would have fit nicely on the "Once Upon A Time in LA" soundtrack.  Kudos to Mark & Alan!

Was "I'm Going Your Way" allegedly another Manson cowrite? What's the supposed connection?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on December 27, 2019, 09:29:26 AM
I know nothing about the origins of the song, but it certainly 'sounds' kind of Manson-ish. The lyrics have that same kind of creepy double-entendre-ish edge as Never Learn Not To Love. Which isn't to say that I dislike them... just that there's some menace to them, and they are a pretty shocking departure from what the group was releasing the previous year.

The overall sound is great. In some ways it sounds like a prototype for Slip On Through.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 10:18:24 AM
Hal: "One...Two..."
Dennis: "Pick up those sticks!"
Hal: "One...Two...Three", chop-chop-chop (double-time)

Classic!  :)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 10:40:18 AM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: coco1997 on December 27, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
So do we know when the full box set is being released?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 11:30:57 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

I complete agree. Whether or not this is a copyright extension dump, it could have been marketed as a teaser single for an upcoming set (or even simply marketing it as "Hey! Look what we just found in the vaults!"). Just dumping it and completely ignoring it makes it seem like the band has zero faith in this kind of material. Whereas the Murry Wilson tracks - obviously someone thought they had value because they spent some time spreading the word.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, because I am beyond digging this 'I'm Going Your Way' track (side note, completely agree with the poster who said this song would fit perfectly on the 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' soundtrack)...but why doesn't this band do any marketing for this stuff?? Social media marketing is about as simple as it gets. As I've said before: you never know what little marketing gimmicks will have a huge impact in the future. It's like the butterfly effect, even some minuscule post on Twitter marketing this could create some buzz in the right corner of the world, and create more sales for an upcoming set.

And, off topic, back to my comment about 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' - I was surprised Tarantino didn't put 'Never Learn Not To Love' in the movie somewhere! It seemed obvious that it would've been a cool Easter egg to place in the movie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 27, 2019, 01:25:42 PM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

I complete agree. Whether or not this is a copyright extension dump, it could have been marketed as a teaser single for an upcoming set (or even simply marketing it as "Hey! Look what we just found in the vaults!"). Just dumping it and completely ignoring it makes it seem like the band has zero faith in this kind of material. Whereas the Murry Wilson tracks - obviously someone thought they had value because they spent some time spreading the word.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, because I am beyond digging this 'I'm Going Your Way' track (side note, completely agree with the poster who said this song would fit perfectly on the 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' soundtrack)...but why doesn't this band do any marketing for this stuff?? Social media marketing is about as simple as it gets. As I've said before: you never know what little marketing gimmicks will have a huge impact in the future. It's like the butterfly effect, even some minuscule post on Twitter marketing this could create some buzz in the right corner of the world, and create more sales for an upcoming set.

And, off topic, back to my comment about 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' - I was surprised Tarantino didn't put 'Never Learn Not To Love' in the movie somewhere! It seemed obvious that it would've been a cool Easter egg to place in the movie.

Is there really a band at this point? Or do the two factions just occasionally "make nice" when there is some screamingly obvious reason to do so? Could it be the case that the highly lauded Sunflower-Surf's Up period--colloquially understood as 1970-71 due to the release dates of the LPs--is one of the few things that might galvanize them to work together again on a project? It could be that Mark and Alan decided to use that fact to push for something much more elaborate that would get a fuller range of marketing efforts because "the band" got behind the idea sufficiently to actively participate in its creation.

There's really only one track here that's worth getting excited about ("Going Your Way") and even it's been around in a similar bootlegged form for some time. ("Slip On Through" deserves a full chronology--and let me also suggest that any compilation of this period should include a new version of Steve Desper's book.) It seems apparent that any of the material from 1969 that wound up on Sunflower will likely be included in the FEEL FLOWS comp without copyright penalty, as these songs were already copyrighted upon original release.

Last year we received an incredible, unexpected treasure trove of material--frankly, you are sounding a tad ungrateful by moaning about what is probably just a lull in the process.

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 02:10:13 PM
Is there really a band at this point? Or do the two factions just occasionally "make nice" when there is some screamingly obvious reason to do so? Could it be the case that the highly lauded Sunflower-Surf's Up period--colloquially understood as 1970-71 due to the release dates of the LPs--is one of the few things that might galvanize them to work together again on a project? It could be that Mark and Alan decided to use that fact to push for something much more elaborate that would get a fuller range of marketing efforts because "the band" got behind the idea sufficiently to actively participate in its creation.

By "band" I meant whatever the entity is that markets the band itself. I don't mean that Mike, Al, Brian, and Bruce need to meet and discuss sending out a tweet about a new EP dropping.

There's really only one track here that's worth getting excited about ("Going Your Way") and even it's been around in a similar bootlegged form for some time. ("Slip On Through" deserves a full chronology--and let me also suggest that any compilation of this period should include a new version of Steve Desper's book.) It seems apparent that any of the material from 1969 that wound up on Sunflower will likely be included in the FEEL FLOWS comp without copyright penalty, as these songs were already copyrighted upon original release.

Going back to SaltyMarshmellows point: were any of the Murry Wilson tracks anything to get excited about? Not especially. And especially considering no one outside of us knows who the heck Murry Wilson is. But someone marketing that had enough sense to raise awareness just a little and now some people will probably buy those songs that otherwise would've have heard about it. This is solely my point: the smallest marketing could help bolster some buzz about this. And again I'll say, with the butterfly effect you never know how small of a post could lead to bigger sales. So while WE know and have heard this song before due to bootlegs, your average fan on Twitter more than likely hasn't, and thus just one little tweet could help bring some great music to ears that haven't heard it before.

Last year we received an incredible, unexpected treasure trove of material--frankly, you are sounding a tad ungrateful by moaning about what is probably just a lull in the process.

Apologies that my opinion sounds like moaning. I even specifically stated that "I don't mean to sound ungrateful" - and quite frankly, looking back on my post, I don't even see how shedding my opinion about social media marketing this great music makes me sound ungrateful to all the great things we have been given in the past few years. In fact I'm overjoyed by this music which is why I don't get why it doesn't get pushed even slightly with a Twitter or Facebook post.

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 04:15:57 PM
Is this 1969 EP technically the 1st standalone released EP by The Beach Boys since "4 By The Beach Boys" in 1964?

(Not really counting "Mt. Fairway & Vernon" as an EP since it wasn't a standalone release).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 04:22:49 PM
While the lack of marketing is weird, all I can say is that I'm seriously overjoyed at any/all archival releases by this band, and I thank Alan and Mark for their hard work, and for the BBs band members for allowing this stuff to be released.

If I were to guess - Capitol Records potentially being stingy aside - I'd assume that since the material on these copyright sets varies wildly both in terms of quality, completeness, etc, that perhaps some elements of the band (the people who have to sign off on what gets released) might be a bit ambivalent about some material getting released and heavily promoted.

Maybe a compromise was reached to put stuff out, but have it just put it out there very quietly for the hardcore fans (who will discover it even if there's not a lot or any Capitol label promotion) in order for there to decrease the possibility of anyone (who could veto stuff) vetoing the specific methods of promotion, and/or decreasing the possibility of vetoing which tracks by which members (living or deceased) get highlighted via promotion more than others.  Maybe it was just easier for a bunch of guys pushing 80 (some with strong opinions) and estates to just put stuff out in more of autopilot mode, thus decreasing boardroom meetings or internal bickering that might have had to otherwise occur if more promo was going to be a thing.

Basically I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of promo might on some level have to do with band politics. If that's the case, then I'm just glad we're getting what we're getting, and I'm VERY thankful.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 27, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
Might this set include Holland as well?

If it really is 6(?) discs, I think maybe. If this includes all of the Surf’s Up album sessions, then it presumably will serve as the copyright extension release for 1971 ... which would also potentially include some of the So Tough sessions. And if you’re including those, it could be an elaborate box for the “Surf’s Up Era”. We’ll see I suppose.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 04:56:34 PM
While the lack of marketing is weird, all I can say is that I'm seriously overjoyed at any/all archival releases by this band, and I thank Alan and Mark for their hard work, and for the BBs band members for allowing this stuff to be released.

If I were to guess - Capitol Records potentially being stingy aside - I'd assume that since the material on these copyright sets varies wildly both in terms of quality, completeness, etc, that perhaps some elements of the band (the people who have to sign off on what gets released) might be a bit ambivalent about some material getting released and heavily promoted.

Maybe a compromise was reached to put stuff out, but have it just put it out there very quietly for the hardcore fans (who will discover it even if there's not a lot or any Capitol label promotion) in order for there to decrease the possibility of anyone (who could veto stuff) vetoing the specific methods of promotion, and/or decreasing the possibility of vetoing which tracks by which members (living or deceased) get highlighted via promotion more than others.  Maybe it was just easier for a bunch of guys pushing 80 (some with strong opinions) and estates to just put stuff out in more of autopilot mode, thus decreasing boardroom meetings or internal bickering that might have had to otherwise occur if more promo was going to be a thing.

Basically I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of promo might on some level have to do with band politics. If that's the case, then I'm just glad we're getting what we're getting, and I'm VERY thankful.

Yeah I'm absolutely thankful, and again that 'I'm Going Your Way' track is friggin awesome (and it sounds so crisp!). I'd hate to see band politics get in the way of promotion, but I wouldn't doubt that would happen given this is The Beach Boys!

I'm sure Feel Flows will get some promotion though...especially because it's a physical set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 27, 2019, 06:34:23 PM
Is this 1969 EP technically the 1st standalone released EP by The Beach Boys since "4 By The Beach Boys" in 1964?

(Not really counting "Mt. Fairway & Vernon" as an EP since it wasn't a standalone release).

There's that weird "The Beach Boys Love Songs" EP from 2006. It shows up on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, etc.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/music/beach-boys-love-songs (https://www.thebeachboys.com/music/beach-boys-love-songs)

There were also EPs in other regions. Like that cool 1977 UK EP with Mona/Rock And Roll Music/Sail On Sailor/Marcella.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 27, 2019, 07:12:24 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on December 27, 2019, 08:00:24 PM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.

Hey c-man, I understand if you don't want to (or can't), but who are the instrumentalists and vocalists on "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 08:00:54 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.

As a Beach Boys fan, without getting into the nuts and bolts of QT's reasoning for adding supposed not-too-well-known bands who were also hip to the soundtrack, I'm just saying I would've liked to have heard NLNTL in the movie. Considering the song doesn't even sound like the stereotypical Beach Boys song your average American knows and loves, I think it would've been a cool and subtle Easter egg for people to find on their own. That is all.

*edit: I do want to add that I did say I was surprised that Tarantino didn't put that song in the movie, so thanks for the explanation as to why he probably didn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 09:51:14 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.

As a Beach Boys fan, without getting into the nuts and bolts of QT's reasoning for adding supposed not-too-well-known bands who were also hip to the soundtrack, I'm just saying I would've liked to have heard NLNTL in the movie. Considering the song doesn't even sound like the stereotypical Beach Boys song your average American knows and loves, I think it would've been a cool and subtle Easter egg for people to find on their own. That is all.

*edit: I do want to add that I did say I was surprised that Tarantino didn't put that song in the movie, so thanks for the explanation as to why he probably didn't.

I would also have loved to have heard NLNTL within that film, or just in general for that song to get more ears on it - not for the sake of the unfortunate Manson connection - but because it's one of Dennis's very best and most fully realized productions with the band. It just so happens that Denny did a completely phenomenal job with that song which had very creepy origins.

And how unfortunate it is of course for such a great production, and such a great song that Denny nursed out of that crude demo of Charlie's, to suffer having been largely ignored by the band for 50 years due to its origins. If the final result had just been a mediocre or average BBs song, it wouldn't be as unfortunate, but it just so happens that clearly Dennis put a crap ton of effort into that song, and it turned out exceptionally and unusually great as far as I'm concerned.

If that song had no such connection, I think people would for years have been talking about the final result being an early towering work of artistry from Dennis Wilson, where he really started to truly flower as an artist. But instead it has a stigma for life, understandably. We've had the instrumental "be with me" version officially released for many years now, and I'm convinced this song didn't get a similar treatment for all this time due to one reason and one reason only.

But I completely understand why the band would be hesitant to get that song more into the world. We're very lucky to have those two alternate versions of it from The last copyright extension release, I'm quite shocked that those were released but I'm very grateful they were. I feel like somebody must have convinced them that it was worth it to put those versions out purely for historical purposes and to make fans happy, and I'm so so glad that they agreed to it. Call me a weirdo, but those two alternate versions are among my favorite things to listen to in the entire catalog these days.

But somehow I don't see a scenario where that song will ever get licensed in a major film. I don't think the band or powers that be would allow it. I think the band wants to distance itself from Manson, although of course Mike's book might suggest otherwise. But as a unified group with various voting members, I don't think that would fly for the song to be used in a movie such as this one. Just my humble opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 27, 2019, 10:18:14 PM
I’m loving this!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sensiblechuckle on December 27, 2019, 10:45:12 PM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 11:05:59 PM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.

Hey c-man, I understand if you don't want to (or can't), but who are the instrumentalists and vocalists on "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival"?

All I can tell you about "I'm Going Your Way" so far is that those are the two guitarists, and that Hal Blaine is the drummer, and Dennis is obviously the only vocalist. The voice from the control room at the end of the bootlegged rough mix sounds like Bruce, so he was apparently involved in the production. As for "Carnival", it appears to have been recorded at the same session as "I Just Got My Pay", for which the Boys themselves played the instruments. Dennis can be heard counting it off on the new mix, and I hear Brian, Al, and Mike, with Carl and Dennis likely in there too. Doesn't seem like Bruce sings on that, unless someone else hears him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on December 28, 2019, 06:07:03 AM
Isolating some of the channels, oddly enough I think all of those vocals on Carnival are actually Al and Dennis. They're the only two voices heard before and after the take and considering the individually-tracked parts you've got:

Highest part - Al doubled falsetto (I'm 100% positive it's not Bruce, Brian or Carl)
Second part - Dennis doubled, at first singing a regular harmony and occasionally jumping up into falsetto with Al on one of the tracks, then switching to a nasal 'new new new' and sometimes talking over the take (distinctly his voice at the end)
Third part - Al doubled, the pinched nasal voice on the right, at first I thought this could've Brian but on closer inspection it's definitely another Al and he's heard speaking in that channel after the breakdown
Fourth part - Dennis doubled bass voice, lots of vocal fry going on and it doesn't sound at all like Mike's style
Fifth part - Al's goofy 'operetta' vocal, which he even announces he's about to do before the take begins


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 28, 2019, 09:47:10 AM
I hear Brian in the mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 28, 2019, 09:57:50 AM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

Thanks so much for this! I wonder if, like the Hateful Eight, they'll do an extended version for Netflix with the deleted scenes added. Nice to see that NLNTL (at least alluded to) was a part of this film, even if it did get cut.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kwan_dk on December 29, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
IF a box set is forthcoming, fingers crossed, I really, really, REALLY hope that some of those Stephen Desper mixes that he shared with us in those study videos will be part of it. I remember listening to a mix of Cool, Cool Water that blew my mind. (Only heard it once) It would be the perfect opportunity to get his versions out to a wider audience.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:27:02 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:33:23 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:41:39 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:49:27 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 5 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:54:24 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!
Me too. Maybe the rhythm was to complicated? Sometimes I still lose the beat it  if I try to sing along.
Six discs?!?  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:59:49 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!
Me too. Maybe the rhythm was to complicated? Sometimes I still lose the beat it  if I try to sing along.
Six discs?!?  :o

Oh shoot, I meant 5 discs. The source I heard for that number was that previous ESQ article...not sure where they sourced that info from though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on December 29, 2019, 07:36:09 PM
I wonder if the second Flame LP will be included?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 29, 2019, 11:49:37 PM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little. 

Proving my point that QT knows that story, but that he decided that such a level of detail was not needed in the film. To be "fair," you have to acknowledge that QT made a conscious decision not to go down that road any further than he did.

And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

As for the sound of "I'm Going Your Way"--it clearly sounds much better in this version, but I don't hear it as being all that much closer to being a completed song. As others have noted, it still needs some added elements. It certainly reminds us that the band had very disparate material striving to be heard, but what's also clear is that other up-tempp tunes from Dennis were taken to completion in its place ("Got to Know the Woman," "Slip On Through," "It's About Time") and they do tend to fit more neatly into the evolving idea of what the BB's were in its 1970 incarnation. Unlike what we've seen in the 1968 material, which raises some interesting questions as to just how the material for FRIENDS was decided upon, there's nothing here that raises similar questions concerning SUNFLOWER (in any of its incarnations).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 04:12:44 AM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little.  

Proving my point that QT knows that story, but that he decided that such a level of detail was not needed in the film. To be "fair," you have to acknowledge that QT made a conscious decision not to go down that road any further than he did.

And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 30, 2019, 05:06:53 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on December 30, 2019, 06:27:31 AM
I hear Brian in the mix.
Where specifically? Each vocal that sounds like it could be him turns out to be someone else when you listen closely.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 30, 2019, 08:00:53 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?

No, sadly. He pulled them down awhile ago after fears that BRI would shut it down...I don’t really know how to summarize it...someone else can probably jump in and fill in the details. I really only heard his mix of “Vegetables” because I never had the time to sit down and go through all of his mixes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 30, 2019, 08:53:00 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?

No, sadly. He pulled them down awhile ago after fears that BRI would shut it down...I don’t really know how to summarize it...someone else can probably jump in and fill in the details. I really only heard his mix of “Vegetables” because I never had the time to sit down and go through all of his mixes.

I would have thought it was more like he pulled them down after some um...rigorous debate here and other places regarding who was singing on the Sail On, Sailor video he uploaded.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 30, 2019, 09:15:45 AM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 30, 2019, 10:38:18 AM
Here's hoping "Carry Me Home" finally sees the light of day and gets a proper release.  I can't wait for the announcement of this box set.  This might be my favorite era for the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 11:00:19 AM
Here's hoping "Carry Me Home" finally sees the light of day and gets a proper release.  I can't wait for the announcement of this box set.  This might be my favorite era for the band.


Agreed. I’m also looking forward to hearing any possibly unheard Brian leads that would show off the change in his voice, as I’ve been obsessed with that for many years


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 30, 2019, 11:41:50 AM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.

There are the old 5.1 DVD isolations, and also for many years now a "vocals only" mix of the song has been around, and it's clearly *not* anything close to "Michael, Michael". I think it's clearly "bygone", but slightly more plausible (likely incorrect) possibilities are the usual "my god" or "by god", etc.

I always got the impression that "vocals only" mix was a sort of raw, "all vocal faders up" rough "mix", which one would think would have revealed alternate vocal tracks, but who knows. Whenever that was mixed down, other things may have been muted.

When can we start the "I miss my pad" versus "I miss my pet" debate for "That's Not Me?"  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 30, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
He took it down because he had a hissy fit over being told that he was wrong, and couldn't accept or admit to his mistake.
 COMMENT:   Thank you Jay for making my point.  You see everyone what happens?  It very hard  posting here because of people like Jay who thinks a recording engineer of fifty years, past president and CEO of a NASDAQ traded corporation with offices in five countries, and holder of several international patents, has a hissy fit. Jay, do you really think that after dealing with hundreds of not thousands of people on a creative level to a corporate level I am going to have trouble handling comments from fans -- anonymous fans?

NO!  I took the website down because it was beginning to affect the bottom line -- my livelihood. It's people such as YOU who make unsubstantiated comments as if fact, then others (in a re-posting) put their spin on it and on it goes. You show no respect for yourself by hiding behind a pseudonym taking pot shots at a known personality. In one post on this thread you praise my mix of Sunflower on the study-video with a wonderful comment, and in a following post you accuse me of having an unstable personality that can't handle criticism from some fans. I suppose you believe I had hissy fits all throughout the recording of Sunflower and Surf's Up? Or is this a new trait of my personality that you have detected -- a trait that must be true, because you posted it!!

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME? You have never met me, nor I you. If I had, I wouldn't know you from the other dozen Jays I've known in my life. [/size]

ATTENTION!!!   guitarfool2002  Global Moderator:

Here's an example of what we're talking about on my Honored Guest thread. Jay has made a personal attack to me. If not an attack on my character, then certainly a derogatory remark directed to me and only me.
Under Rules #2 and #5, I demand his post be removed. Also, if you are monitoring the comments posted (and I know you are because you are posting too) why do I need to ask you to remove these belittling darts being thrown my way?  If you are going to monitor, then monitor -- not just add a comment now and then. If you want me, a known personality to continue to post here, then do your job!

You see, Mr. Moderator(s) this is what happens . . . Jay says "he has a hissy fit." This is re-posted as "he is hard to work with." This is re-posted as "he loses his temper often." Then, "he's a loose cannon."  I don't have the time to defend all these roomers, but soon people with whom I must connect in commerce are looking me up on the Internet and finding crap, untrue crap. To which there is no time to take defense. The best thing is to stop them at their source. That's your job.

You see, I can't even post about a box set without some fan trashing me. This box set is about my work and I could contribute much to this website about it, but for poor monitoring of fans' breaking the rules. By not protecting your known posters, you are in effect, protecting all your hidden posters.  If you are not going to monitor and protect identified posters from slander by a few of the hidden identities, then don't expect me to post.
  ~Stephen W. Desper


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 02:11:47 PM
No more.... let’s move on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 02:24:46 PM
Agreed that it is best to move on, the post will be removed, and please moving forward let's not have any more like this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 30, 2019, 03:03:32 PM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.

There are the old 5.1 DVD isolations, and also for many years now a "vocals only" mix of the song has been around, and it's clearly *not* anything close to "Michael, Michael". I think it's clearly "bygone", but slightly more plausible (likely incorrect) possibilities are the usual "my god" or "by god", etc.

I always got the impression that "vocals only" mix was a sort of raw, "all vocal faders up" rough "mix", which one would think would have revealed alternate vocal tracks, but who knows. Whenever that was mixed down, other things may have been muted.

When can we start the "I miss my pad" versus "I miss my pet" debate for "That's Not Me?"  :lol

COMMENT to 37!ws:  Yes, it is all correct.  What I said was, you can hear Michael, Michael (that's what I hear) or "bygone, bygone."

Don't you see (or hear) it's not about what is sung, it's about what is heard. You can hear both or one, like an optical illusion of a turning box, can look like it's turning one direction and then turn the other direction.

It's one of many sonic illusions. You know how it's done? As I said, there are two tracks. If both are mixed together, the listener can hear either one. A sonic delusion. You are hearing the "wrong track" if you hear the other track  :) 
~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 30, 2019, 03:13:37 PM
I'm just going to say one more thing, and that'll be it for me. I lost under the name Jay because that happens to be my actual name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 30, 2019, 03:55:02 PM
He took it down because he had a hissy fit over being told that he was wrong, and couldn't accept or admit to his mistake.
 COMMENT:   Thank you Jay for making my point.  You see everyone what happens?  It very hard  posting here because of people like Jay who thinks a recording engineer of fifty years, past president and CEO of a NASDAQ traded corporation with offices in five countries, and holder of several international patents, has a hissy fit. Jay, do you really think that after dealing with hundreds of not thousands of people on a creative level to a corporate level I am going to have trouble handling comments from fans -- anonymous fans?

NO!  I took the website down because it was beginning to affect the bottom line -- my livelihood. It's people such as YOU who make unsubstantiated comments as if fact, then others (in a re-posting) put their spin on it and on it goes. You show no respect for yourself by hiding behind a pseudonym taking pot shots at a known personality. In one post on this thread you praise my mix of Sunflower on the study-video with a wonderful comment, and in a following post you accuse me of having an unstable personality that can't handle criticism from some fans. I suppose you believe I had hissy fits all throughout the recording of Sunflower and Surf's Up? Or is this a new trait of my personality that you have detected -- a trait that must be true, because you posted it!!

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME? You have never met me, nor I you. If I had, I wouldn't know you from the other dozen Jays I've known in my life. [/size]

ATTENTION!!!   guitarfool2002  Global Moderator:

Here's an example of what we're talking about on my Honored Guest thread. Jay has made a personal attack to me. If not an attack on my character, then certainly a derogatory remark directed to me and only me.
Under Rules #2 and #5, I demand his post be removed. Also, if you are monitoring the comments posted (and I know you are because you are posting too) why do I need to ask you to remove these belittling darts being thrown my way?  If you are going to monitor, then monitor -- not just add a comment now and then. If you want me, a known personality to continue to post here, then do your job!

You see, Mr. Moderator(s) this is what happens . . . Jay says "he has a hissy fit." This is re-posted as "he is hard to work with." This is re-posted as "he loses his temper often." Then, "he's a loose cannon."  I don't have the time to defend all these roomers, but soon people with whom I must connect in commerce are looking me up on the Internet and finding crap, untrue crap. To which there is no time to take defense. The best thing is to stop them at their source. That's your job.

You see, I can't even post about a box set without some fan trashing me. This box set is about my work and I could contribute much to this website about it, but for poor monitoring of fans' breaking the rules. By not protecting your known posters, you are in effect, protecting all your hidden posters.  If you are not going to monitor and protect identified posters from slander by a few of the hidden identities, then don't expect me to post.
 ~Stephen W. Desper

Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 30, 2019, 04:45:48 PM
And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).

I think the film reflects a grownup revisiting his pre-pubescent memories of what things were like in 1969. Focused on his childhood love of certain film/TV genres which he has exploded into a powerful, ultra-violent oeuvre to great acclaim bordering on hero worship by many. He's certainly taken a different tack with OATILA--creating a warm central relationship that is sustained and unsullied by the events that occur in the film--and he tries to proceed by indirection a lot more than usual, which indicates that he really tried a lot harder with this film to reign in his narrative excesses. That probably explains a lot of the cuts that occurred (including the Manson scenes).

And given that nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach to making this film noticeably less violent, and re-anointing his childhood self by making a nine-year-old girl the most focused, together person in the film, I think it's likely that QT acknowledges and appreciates the BBs in their early greatness (the portion that appeals to the teenager)--but I don't get the sense that he has followed them into their late 60s wilderness with anything like the affection so often demonstrated here. There is little evidence that he finds them musically essential for a film about 1969.

If he decides to make a longer version of the film--an ill-advised move from my perspective--he could indeed put NLNTL into the film somehow. But it will always be the case than when he first created the film he wanted to show to the public, that material (and, by extension, NLNTL) was excised from the film. (Assuming, of course, that it was actually in the film in the original cut.)

As a BB fan, I'm agnostic about NLNTL making an appearance in the story. There are more substantive ways to get a handle on Manson and the Family than any version of OATILA is likely to ever provide--with or without the song. I think QT should leave well enough alone and move on to his next project, particularly given the acclaim the film has received. (I can't find any recent references to a four-hour version; that was a prevailing rumor in August, but what happened instead is that QT tacked on a few things for a late-October tweak, which produced decidedly mixed reactions from the media.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 30, 2019, 05:07:26 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 05:18:27 PM
And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).

I think the film reflects a grownup revisiting his pre-pubescent memories of what things were like in 1969. Focused on his childhood love of certain film/TV genres which he has exploded into a powerful, ultra-violent oeuvre to great acclaim bordering on hero worship by many. He's certainly taken a different tack with OATILA--creating a warm central relationship that is sustained and unsullied by the events that occur in the film--and he tries to proceed by indirection a lot more than usual, which indicates that he really tried a lot harder with this film to reign in his narrative excesses. That probably explains a lot of the cuts that occurred (including the Manson scenes).

And given that nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach to making this film noticeably less violent, and re-anointing his childhood self by making a nine-year-old girl the most focused, together person in the film, I think it's likely that QT acknowledges and appreciates the BBs in their early greatness (the portion that appeals to the teenager)--but I don't get the sense that he has followed them into their late 60s wilderness with anything like the affection so often demonstrated here. There is little evidence that he finds them musically essential for a film about 1969.

If he decides to make a longer version of the film--an ill-advised move from my perspective--he could indeed put NLNTL into the film somehow. But it will always be the case than when he first created the film he wanted to show to the public, that material (and, by extension, NLNTL) was excised from the film. (Assuming, of course, that it was actually in the film in the original cut.)

As a BB fan, I'm agnostic about NLNTL making an appearance in the story. There are more substantive ways to get a handle on Manson and the Family than any version of OATILA is likely to ever provide--with or without the song. I think QT should leave well enough alone and move on to his next project, particularly given the acclaim the film has received. (I can't find any recent references to a four-hour version; that was a prevailing rumor in August, but what happened instead is that QT tacked on a few things for a late-October tweak, which produced decidedly mixed reactions from the media.)

Yes, Tarantino talked a lot about how it was a revisiting of his childhood. In fact it's why a lot of the shots in the film (of driving through Hollywood) are from a low angle - he said he wanted to see the same perspective on film that he saw as a little kid when his dad would drive them through the city. Even if it is a movie that reflects Tarantino's childhood in LA, the film is also full of quirky and over-the-top moments that have no place in a child's memory. Thus again, I'm still surprised that NLNTL wasn't in the film as an Easter egg (not as a pivotal music centerpiece in the film)...with the full understanding that obviously Tarantino didn't want it in the film. I appreciate your replies and see what you're getting at, but it still doesn't change my outlook about it.

As for the Netflix version - what I heard about the late-October tweak was that it was likely a response to the film being banned in China (due to the Bruce Lee scene). What some think is that since that market was closed in China (thus a loss of profit), the movie company wanted to squeeze a bit more money out of the American theater audience by re-releasing it as an "extended" version (which only included two very minor additions to the end and beginning of the movie iirc). If correct, this was such a quick move that I doubt Tarantino had time to do anything substantial in regards to editing (thus it was just a quick bookending of two random additional scenes that added nothing to the movie itself). So such a version isn't really an extended version to the extent that The Hateful Eight (Netflix extended edition) was, thus I don't really think the October release is at all the extended version that Nicholas Hammond talked about in the Summer.

Once Upon A Time In Hollywood is one of my favorite movies ever. I have read so much about this film, watched so many interviews with Tarantino and the cast. I think it's one of the most perfect pieces of cinematography I've ever seen. So while I think this movie is perfect the way we have it, I wouldn't at all think it an ill-advised move for Tarantino to make an extended 4 hour version...it's like if BW made an extended version of Pet Sounds in 1967 - I would still consider the original Pet Sounds to be definitive, but I would be curious to hear what else Brian was tinkering with for that album. Granted, if an extended version doesn't come out I'm still a happy camper...this movie was above and beyond, and I'm just glad it was made in the first place!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 05:30:47 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.

Completely agree. There's honestly zero reason that Mr. Desper has to post on this forum (especially in the stunning detail that he does). But he does and I think we are incredibly lucky for this. While some may disagree with some past statements and opinions he has made, there is a certain level of decorum to keep with someone who has given us so much...especially someone who has been consistently open with this community about their past with the band.

Also, would like to add that I think the mods here have done a great job (and have helped keep this community stable and free of trolls - and thus this place has been doing great for the last few years). As for the issue with anonymity of posters, my opinion regarding that was posted recently in the Stephen Desper thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 06:46:24 PM
Reply to Mr. Desper:  Action was taken as soon as both Billy and I became aware of what was going on. Understand that "my job" also involves working for a paycheck, which I was doing in the hours between when these posts were made and when I was able to connect with Billy on one of my work breaks this afternoon. Up until the last 2 minutes of my break at work, both Billy and I were acting on it.

So while I understand the frustrations, please understand too that I am not on call here 24-7, and neither is Billy. When something is brought to our attention, we try to act on it *when we can*. In this case today, I was working and unable to act immediately. So please have some understanding too that this is a volunteer gig which Billy and I do (Billy much longer) because we love the band and the music, we care about this community, and we care about the people who are part of it.

We can't please everyone. Just understand that sometimes our actual work and daily lives delay reading every post up to the minute, and having to read "do your job" is something we just have to let roll off our backs due to the realities of working on the clock as we do and having other issues to deal with on a daily basis. We do our best.

And I also don't want to remind people of the past, but I think we've done a pretty good job cleaning the place up and keeping it civil and focused on the music and the band. There was a time where interpersonal issues and posters acting like jackasses were filling our complaint boxes and causing a lot of people a lot of grief, and one of the best things we did was to put the kibosh on all that stuff. So while it's not perfect, and some want things a certain way and won't be happy until they get 100% demands met, we don't have near the issues that once existed here. And I can say with 100% honesty: Good riddance to all of that nonsense and those who were causing it. They're gone. The board is still here. While it's not perfect, while it doesn't please everyone, it's still a place to read and chat and learn and interact, free of PM smear campaigns, liars and frauds claiming some exemption from the rules and from normal human behavior, and people trying to bully off other members. Again, good riddance to all of that.

Standing offer, as it has stood for years: If anyone has a problem, please reach out to Billy or I with a message. While we can't make the preferred decision all the time, we will absolutely discuss and address any concerns. And that will also keep threads like this on topic for everyone else.


PS: Please remember that in the other thread, some "sources" also gave you information about me and Billy that was completely false, and adding that to a list of false information and outright lies that were and are still circulating about us personally along with distorting and lying about events that happened here, it is definitely not easy to correct lies and misinformation that others with a grudge are spreading around. So I know where your frustrations are coming from, and I've been in the same position as shown by whatever sources gave you incorrect info, along with whatever warped version of events from the past is still being told.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 06:56:25 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

Donny, if you have any issues, you have both my private contact info and can reach out to me or Billy here with a message. I'd prefer that to airing out more stuff against this board publicly in a thread like this.

As far as people not posting here, you know better and know the facts of what happened. If people don't post here, that's their choice unless they were banned. And those that were banned - They're no longer welcome here due to their own behaviors. Anyone was and is free to follow them wherever they go, but the numbers and readership has not suffered here, in fact with new members and active posters, the numbers on this board are larger than they were before 2016. So much for the exodus or scorched earth.

We had Brian Wilson himself come on this board to answer members' questions, and some here were more concerned with taking shots at the whole thing and trying to say it wasn't really him rather than enjoying the opportunity. Do you think he'd come back after someone said they'd rather have PeeWee Herman on the board? That's the general level of ass-hattery and disrespect that existed. Again, no regrets for sweeping that garbage out the door. We try to do what we can to keep it running smooth, understanding we can't please everyone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 07:05:18 PM
Last one.

I too have learned so much from Stephen Desper's posts through the years, it's impossible to calculate just how much knowledge and enjoyment I've gotten from his writings. Add me to the list of those who would want to see him involved in a project involving the music he recorded hands-on with the band. I felt the same way about the Sgt Pepper deluxe sets when I found out the engineer Geoff Emerick was not part of the process in that sessions/outtakes and deluxe re-release project. These men who know every tape splice, who can recall fader moves and what was patched in on a given section of music, who can recall exactly which microphone and piece of gear was used to get those sounds on any given track, who may even recall what and whose drink of choice caused the stain on a tape box...Yes, I wish there was a way to include them in these archival releases. And it takes some of the luster off the excitement when they are not, for whatever reasons. For me at least, that's my 2 cents.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 08:31:22 PM
I couldn’t say it any better GF.

On a lighter note... I’m hyped as hell for this set. When I first became a fan back in 1995 this is the time period that spoke to me the most. I never thought we’d see this kind of set,  as it felt like this material would be forevermore the “underground “ music. The Beach Boys as a proto-Tame Impala. Now a set like this feels like the ultimate vindication.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 30, 2019, 09:17:10 PM
I hope the box set would lead to wider re-appreciation of Sunflower and Surf's Up, as Sunshine Tomorrow did for Wild Honey.

On a side note, it's too bad that Rolling Stone replaced Sunflower with The SMiLE Sessions in their 2012 edition of "all time top 500 albums" list. I know they include compilations & best-of's in the list, and SMiLE is a terrific work of art on its own, but I'd have preferred that an actually finished (and great) album stayed in the list rather than an unfinished one.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 30, 2019, 10:43:53 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 11:51:53 AM
Quote
The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation.

I'm going to leave it at this for now : honored or not, everybody should be treated with respect, but it needs to be a two way street.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 12:10:32 PM
I will now apologize to Mr Desper for the "hissyfit" comment I made. But yeah, it's a two way street....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 31, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
I will now apologize to Mr Desper for the "hissyfit" comment I made. But yeah, it's a two way street....

Is an apology sincere if it uses the words that contributed to the ruckus? And 'but, yea?'


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Latshaw on December 31, 2019, 01:28:12 PM
<Is an apology sincere if it uses the words that contributed to the ruckus? And 'but, yea?'>

Of course not.  Nor is a curt self-defense by an  anonymous poster who notes that he bravely signs his missives with his real... first... name.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 01:31:41 PM
Second time I’ve asked this to be dropped and for us to move on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 31, 2019, 01:46:18 PM
Quote
The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation.

I'm going to leave it at this for now : honored or not, everybody should be treated with respect, but it needs to be a two way street.


COMMENT to ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩,  I'm sorry, but the only way it becomes a two-way street is if both parties reveal their real and true identity. Otherwise only one party can comment both ways, while the other party can only go down a one-way street.

I'm not certain what you are implying, but given the number of posts I have placed over the years, I believe you would be hard-pressed to find my treatment of any fan less than respectful and polite.

When I started posting here on Smilesmile, many "insiders" warned me of what I was getting myself into, saying ... in the end you will come out on losing as they are merciless as long as they are unknown.  I am beginning to understand why I was cautioned and why so many principle players remain silent.

From my perspective the solution is effective monitoring with action taken if the rules are broken. When you fellows took over that task, this site was not too friendly a place. I acknowledge the work you have done to make it a more friendly place and encourage you to continue, as this is an on-going problem that will always need your attention.

 ~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 31, 2019, 01:59:43 PM


Beach Boys fans haven't been gettin' any since 1968. 3 songs and Murry is just not enough. Beach Boys fandom demands a big release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
With all due respect...

You had indeed insulted us based on what had happened several years ago (and not just here). I thought we had cleared the air about it back then. Someone took offense to it. (Hell, *I* took offense to it but said nothing. ) said poster did not know you edited your original post and apologized for it.

And as for real and true identity, screw it. My name is William Terry Castillo. Date of birth 13 August 1978. Houston, Texas. I’m Hispanic and Dutch/Jewish. That’s all the personal information I’m giving out, but hopefully it proves sufficient to have my words and thoughts matter.

And if it seems like I’m a bit angry, it’s because quite frankly I am. Again, I thought we had moved on from what happened years ago. I’d seen your posts here and elsewhere making references to it and I let it slide. Some of those were not the nicest. I said nothing and now I wish I had, as it is readily apparent that these issues weren't cleared up. I once let a (then-) honored guest verbally abuse and threaten members with no consequences ...I'm not saying you're doing that, just making the point on why everybody has to be treated the same


More to the point, I’m angry that we’re having this discussion when we have far more interesting things to talk about right now


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 02:13:42 PM
Ok, f*** this. I'm gone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Ok, f*** this. I'm gone.



If you are, I am as well, but I'd rather us try to take this via PM and at least try to fix all this :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 31, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Jay, just my opinion, but sometimes a simple apology is best in these situations--qualifying it even a little bit tends to bring out the nit-pickers.

"Honored guests" are entitled to exercise some additional demands and expectations. Some will do this more than others, just as some of us will tend to be more aggressive and flamboyant in our mode of expression here. I agree with Billy that we should endeavor to be courteous to all, so long as we don't all become so nice that it becomes deadly dull!! 
:hat

Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all who post here. There have been a number of great threads over at the other place, but this is still the place to be IMNSHO. Long may it remain that way. Remember 2020 is destined to be a magical Beach Boys year for so many reasons. But I think whenever we reference the soon-upcoming year, it should always be notated as follows, just to reinforce our special relationship with it...

Welcome to 20/20, everyone! ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 04:00:24 PM


"Honored guests" are entitled to exercise some additional demands and expectations.
No, they aren't. They are human beings just like us.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 04:07:51 PM
Agreed...but let's please put this aside and get back to the boxed set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 06:48:12 PM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 31, 2019, 08:19:49 PM
Everything from the sunflower era


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 08:44:20 PM
I have a feeling that we’re going to hear a song we’ve never heard before...that’s what excites me the most.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Willy Wilson on December 31, 2019, 09:46:37 PM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

Three things if I may... All of Sunflower vocals-only. Better quality versions of ‘It’s a New Day’ and ‘Sound of Free’.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 09:56:08 PM
Vocals only would be ace...I completely would be down with that. I’ve long held that Sunflower is the band’s most harmonically rich album, and hearing it presented as such would likely uncover a treasure trove of previously unheard backup parts.

I look forward to hearing more Brian in general.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 31, 2019, 11:00:49 PM
I'd be down for literally anything from 1969-71 (or any outtakes from the Beach Boys, really), but what intrigues me the most is Fred Vail Country Album. Apparently the vocals are not strong and the album is incomplete, but it'd be a real pleasure for me to get to listen to one of the rare occasions where Brian attempted country music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on January 01, 2020, 06:05:33 AM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on January 01, 2020, 07:02:53 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

A HQ version of the original mix of Lady, the original version of Loop De Loop, alt lyrics Forever, possibly an alternate mix of This Whole World with the guitars more audible and the Eastern Airlines version, My Solution... The list goes on with all the stuff we know exists but hasn't been bootlegged.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on January 01, 2020, 07:32:49 AM
A decent quality stereo version of "Sound Of Free" would be high on my wish list for the set along with "Settle Down" and "Behold the Night" from the Dennis and Darryl Dragon aborted lp. Also, Sunflower released with the quality and stereo quality that my old Statside import lp has... So far I haven't heard that quality on CD (hissy hissy)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on January 01, 2020, 07:45:40 AM
Also, Sunflower released with the quality and stereo quality that my old Statside import lp has...

That (i.e. the UK issue) was my first copy of the album, and I'm reminded now of an odd fact -- "Got To Know The Woman" and "Deirdre" are reversed in the track order on that version. I wonder what that was all about.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on January 01, 2020, 07:53:04 AM
What I am most excited about hearing, if it exists...

Another mix/version of WIBNTLA
Some rocking live material
Any unreleased DW songs


Question for Mr. Desper:

If it has been discussed elsewhere I missed it, but I was curious if you have any memories of "I'm Going Your Way" that are worth sharing?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 08:07:03 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

A HQ version of the original mix of Lady, the original version of Loop De Loop, alt lyrics Forever, possibly an alternate mix of This Whole World with the guitars more audible and the Eastern Airlines version, My Solution... The list goes on with all the stuff we know exists but hasn't been bootlegged.


Completely forgot about the airline version...good one


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on January 01, 2020, 08:15:04 AM
I have a feeling that we’re going to hear a song we’ve never heard before...that’s what excites me the most.

I think there's going to be songs as in plural. The Bedroom Tapes article say that there were A LOT of uncatalogued sessions found around this time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 09:43:50 AM
...I completely forgot about that, although I usually think of the period after the one covered in the set when I think of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JakeH on January 01, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!

No black-and-white answer to this question will ever appear. All we can do is theorize. My basic theory is that by this time the Beach Boys had become a closed-system. Brian, a few years back, had what seems to be a final (initial?) opportunity to work with (produce) outside singers-vocalists with actual talent. This was Redwood/Three Dog Night in 1967, and Brian of course did this on the sly... he was thwarted in this effort by the band/Family, and he also caved-in and allowed himself to be thwarted.  Brian's thing with the Beach Boys - his ability to work with them in the way he wanted to - was exhausted, or depleted by the end of the 1960s. (or at least mostly so).  He obviously still had an itch to produce or work in contexts outside the Beach Boys, but he knew (or felt, on some deeper level) that he couldn't do it; that it was never going to work, and he had to remain a "Beach Boy."

So according to this theory, the answer is: no, Brian couldn't have reached out to an actual, legitimate country singer.  One thing he could do, though,  is safely mess around with trusted, non-threatening insiders like Fred Vail, American Spring (members of the Beach Boy family) and, for instance, whatever he was doing with Rocky Pamplin in the late seventies. This is not serious stuff.  My guess about the "Fred tapes" is that they sound like American Spring's "Tennessee Waltz" but with Fred singing... Who knows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 10:38:22 PM
According to the Peter Ames Carlin book, Brian’s reputation wasn’t the greatest in the industry at this point in time, so that may add to it.

Then again, the correct answer may be the simplest... he was just doing him a favor


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on January 02, 2020, 06:20:17 AM
I would love an official release of My Solution! Although I'm not sure if it was recorded the same year or after the Surfs Up lp. I'm excited that Carnival is out! Also Out In the Country, another mix of 4th of July.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 02, 2020, 07:14:18 AM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!

No black-and-white answer to this question will ever appear. All we can do is theorize. My basic theory is that by this time the Beach Boys had become a closed-system. Brian, a few years back, had what seems to be a final (initial?) opportunity to work with (produce) outside singers-vocalists with actual talent. This was Redwood/Three Dog Night in 1967, and Brian of course did this on the sly... he was thwarted in this effort by the band/Family, and he also caved-in and allowed himself to be thwarted.  Brian's thing with the Beach Boys - his ability to work with them in the way he wanted to - was exhausted, or depleted by the end of the 1960s. (or at least mostly so).  He obviously still had an itch to produce or work in contexts outside the Beach Boys, but he knew (or felt, on some deeper level) that he couldn't do it; that it was never going to work, and he had to remain a "Beach Boy."

So according to this theory, the answer is: no, Brian couldn't have reached out to an actual, legitimate country singer.  One thing he could do, though,  is safely mess around with trusted, non-threatening insiders like Fred Vail, American Spring (members of the Beach Boy family) and, for instance, whatever he was doing with Rocky Pamplin in the late seventies. This is not serious stuff.  My guess about the "Fred tapes" is that they sound like American Spring's "Tennessee Waltz" but with Fred singing... Who knows

Brian clearly had a penchant for working with artists/projects seemingly on a lark from time to time. The above theories are interesting to chew on.

There's also the possibility, by 1970 or so, that Brian may have lacked the self-confidence as a producer to produce a *major* artist even if one had materialized for him to work with.

In between "major" and the fluke insider examples like Fred Vail would be something like those sessions during this time with Don Goldberg that only materialized several years back. He was an unknown, but was also not previously an "insider" in the organization. The band couldn't have been too threatened by Brian working with Goldberg; Goldberg brought two of his own songs (one of which Mike seemingly enthusiastically tackled himself), and did a version of a BB song ("Out in the Country") that was ultimately so unmemorable to the Beach Boys that nobody could remember years later who even wrote the thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 02, 2020, 07:26:25 AM
Wait, what's this about an "airline" version of "This Whole World"??? How have I not heard it??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on January 02, 2020, 08:41:05 AM
Wait, what's this about an "airline" version of "This Whole World"??? How have I not heard it??

A version of the song was recorded on 3/12/71 for an Eastern Airlines commercial.  I don't think it's ever been booted.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on January 02, 2020, 08:45:51 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

I'm not sure if there are any, but session tracks for 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree' would be incredible - and a backing track, and a vocals only (especially of that outro).

The extended version of WIBNTLA. Brian's piano demo of 'Til I Die' should be heard by everybody - it's just such a chill piano track...also, any early demo versions with vocals would be awesome (if they exist). I can't even imagine all the goodies we'll get with this!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: superunison on January 02, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
Where is the tambourine in the second verse of I'm Going Your Way that I've heard in booted versions? Also is this version a bit slower than the booted version (I'm assuming that this one is the tape at the correct speed). 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on January 03, 2020, 03:09:44 AM
looking forward to a possible  version of Tree with a Dennis lead vocal


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on January 03, 2020, 04:29:00 AM
looking forward to a possible  version of Tree with a Dennis lead vocal

Unless some sort of lost early mix is uncovered, there won't be. No other lead vocals are on the multitrack.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on January 03, 2020, 04:34:27 AM
Where is the tambourine in the second verse of I'm Going Your Way that I've heard in booted versions? Also is this version a bit slower than the booted version (I'm assuming that this one is the tape at the correct speed). 

Based on Bruce's squeaky voice at the end of the bootleg I'm guessing the new release is the correct key for the track, which Dennis then sped up a semitone for a second single-tracked attempt at the lead vocal (presumably the non 'alternate' version that'll be on whatever is released this year).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on January 03, 2020, 05:49:55 AM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 10, 2020, 04:33:44 PM
I'd love to hear more material like Where Is She, Walkin', You're As Cool As Can Be, any Dennis songs, early versions/demos, etc. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonicVolcano on January 11, 2020, 02:56:37 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on January 11, 2020, 07:11:28 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonicVolcano on January 12, 2020, 10:46:39 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


That would be amazing :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on January 13, 2020, 03:53:00 AM
Yes it would- I will buy all the live versions of Wild Honey, Marcella, and Jumpin' Jack Flash they will sell me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on January 14, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Yes it would- I will buy all the live versions of Wild Honey, Marcella, and Jumpin' Jack Flash they will sell me.

I will gladly buy any & all live versions of anything by the BB from the early to mid 70s.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DennysDrums83 on January 15, 2020, 07:02:21 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


I hope it includes River Song, Here She Comes, and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 17, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
I hope we get some release date news about this soon!  Can't wait too long.  :bw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 18, 2020, 11:27:23 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


That would be sweet.  That early 70's era had some considerably good live moments.  Having Blondie and Ricky in the band really helped give the band a little more street cred and edge.  Would love to hear more from that period.  👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on January 18, 2020, 04:24:56 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on January 18, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 20, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on January 21, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.
And there is that note on the back of Sunflower explaining how every voice, every instrument was recorded in stereo - not just a bunch of monophonic signals panned left, center and right.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on February 08, 2020, 09:53:05 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 08, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 08, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!

What's this? I've never heard of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 08, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Remeber we thought this was coming out at Christmas 😂😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aeijtzsche on February 08, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.

Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.
And there is that note on the back of Sunflower explaining how every voice, every instrument was recorded in stereo - not just a bunch of monophonic signals panned left, center and right.

*every* instrument and voice...maybe not so much, but certainly more of that than before.  A lot of the vocals were done with the AKG C24 stereo microphone which allows perfect XY diaphragm alignment every time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on February 08, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!

What's this? I've never heard of it.

Pops up in discussion occasionally and mentioned by Al and I think Bruce in the Endless Harmony Documentary. I recall Al sings a bit as it’s based on the song Cool Cool Water and he says something like “I’d really like to hear it again as it’s so good”.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on February 09, 2020, 12:58:54 AM
First and foremost, I'd love to hear more Brian stuff from that time, whatever it may be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on February 09, 2020, 06:46:55 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 09, 2020, 07:26:20 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.

The official release is actually from a vintage edit of those two or three rough mix parts; the edit was done by Rick Henn's brother-in-law Dennis Dragon, using good old fashioned razor-and-splice techniques!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on February 09, 2020, 08:16:19 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.

The official release is actually from a vintage edit of those two or three rough mix parts; the edit was done by Rick Henn's brother-in-law Dennis Dragon, using good old fashioned razor-and-splice techniques!

Wait, wasn't that done in the early 90s? I guess authentic tape splicing may as well count as vintage!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 09, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.

The official release is actually from a vintage edit of those two or three rough mix parts; the edit was done by Rick Henn's brother-in-law Dennis Dragon, using good old fashioned razor-and-splice techniques!

Wait, wasn't that done in the early 90s? I guess authentic tape splicing may as well count as vintage!

According to Rick Henn's recollections in ESQ, at some point after the "SOMS" sessions, he took his rough mixes over to DD's studio (Rick was married to DD's sister Kathy Dragon), and DD did the edits. He doesn't say exactly when, but I'm thinking this wasn't too long after the sessions, possibly within a few years at the most. My understanding is that they almost used that edited mix for the '93 box set (I actually heard it in the fall of '92, when David Leaf played it over the phone for Domenic Priore and me), and that this is what was ultimately used for the releases in '98 and 2013.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 13, 2020, 11:48:06 AM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 13, 2020, 12:27:36 PM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.

I could easily imagine that the powers that be are waiting for a little time to pass for the media to have less reason to write about Mike "I use the brand name to support people who kill animals for fun" Love, because he (and tangentially, his modern day antics) are sadly tied into the release of this set, like it or not.

All the more reason to just release this set - and all others like it - quietly (like the 20/20 set). Unfortunately, anything that puts *less* of a microscope on the brand at this point in time is a good thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 13, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 13, 2020, 01:41:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.

If they release it in late August or September - even if it's in actuality due to these awful circumstances - the reason can still be marketed as having been timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Sunflower's August 31, 1970 release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 13, 2020, 02:03:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.

If they release it in late August or September - even if it's in actuality due to these awful circumstances - the reason can still be marketed as having been timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Sunflower's August 31, 1970 release.
That would actually be a smart move. If course I would hope to have a big box set of unreleased recordings sooner rather than later, but it would be a good move to the it in with an important event, such as a 50th anniversary. Especially if they wanted to style it in a similar fashion to the Smile set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 13, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
what i really want to know is if they are going to release the Fred Vail country thing (they can do a release with Omnivore records just like they did with the Murry Wilson and Snow stuff)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on February 13, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
I'll take whatever I can get ASAP.   :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on February 13, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.

I could easily imagine that the powers that be are waiting for a little time to pass for the media to have less reason to write about Mike "I use the brand name to support people who kill animals for fun" Love, because he (and tangentially, his modern day antics) are sadly tied into the release of this set, like it or not.

All the more reason to just release this set - and all others like it - quietly (like the 20/20 set). Unfortunately, anything that puts *less* of a microscope on the brand at this point in time is a good thing.

This is why we can't have nice things.  :-\



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 13, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
I thought maybe August 28, around the same time as Sunflower actually came out back in 1970. But no matter what, we have to get something this year, BRI is not gonna let those copyrights just go


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 14, 2020, 09:02:07 AM
If this set is delayed until later this year, it will give all of us mean fans a chance to apologize to Mike Love for bullying him... :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on February 14, 2020, 09:04:52 AM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 14, 2020, 09:07:39 AM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?

Sure to sell a million units?  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 14, 2020, 03:54:16 PM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?
Nothing confirmed. Only that something was in the planning stages for February.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 14, 2020, 04:20:04 PM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?
Nothing confirmed. Only that something was in the planning stages for February.
yeah but it was only a rumour said by Bruce, nothing coming from Boyd or Linett sadly :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on February 15, 2020, 08:26:53 AM
There are the rumours that Al has been listening to some on the tour bus...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DreadfulDanG on February 15, 2020, 11:20:40 AM
Here's my wishlist (or shopping list!) for this set:

What Can the Matter Be?
You Never Give Me Your Money
'Til I Die 1969 demo (or any early versions for that matter, especially if the fabled version with 'positive' lyrics exists).
I'm Going Your Way - just a nice, clean mixed and mastered version, please!
My Solution - as above
Won't You Tell Me
Telephone Backgrounds (On a Clear Day)

...and any stuff Dennis was working on during this time frame, like It's a New Day and Behold the Night. I think everything else that was slated for his solo album came right after Surf's Up sessions wrapped so probably wouldn't belong here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 15, 2020, 12:18:01 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on February 15, 2020, 12:31:52 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on February 15, 2020, 01:26:34 PM
Here's my wishlist (or shopping list!) for this set:

What Can the Matter Be?
You Never Give Me Your Money
'Til I Die 1969 demo (or any early versions for that matter, especially if the fabled version with 'positive' lyrics exists).
I'm Going Your Way - just a nice, clean mixed and mastered version, please!
My Solution - as above
Won't You Tell Me
Telephone Backgrounds (On a Clear Day)

...and any stuff Dennis was working on during this time frame, like It's a New Day and Behold the Night. I think everything else that was slated for his solo album came right after Surf's Up sessions wrapped so probably wouldn't belong here.

The positive lyrics Til I Die does exist. I doesn't circulate though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on February 15, 2020, 01:34:47 PM
The positive lyrics Til I Die does exist. I doesn't circulate though.

This might be #1 on my list!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 15, 2020, 01:45:36 PM
There is an interview with Brian where he says that My Solution was going to be on Love You. Does a version from 1976-1977 exist?
Or were  they just going to use the 1970 version


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 15, 2020, 06:48:39 PM
I imagine it would have been the 1970 version. Considering they used "Good Time" for the album, "My Solution" would have had a similar overall sound. Kind of. lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on February 15, 2020, 09:11:17 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 15, 2020, 11:50:19 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 16, 2020, 12:21:52 PM
Well, remember, Brian was producing TWO new albums for the BBs at the time - one to be called simply New Album, and the other to be called Brian Loves You. The former was never released, and there was never a definite lineup, but that's supposedly where things like "Tomboy" and "Solution" would have gone. By the time Love You was released, he was on to Adult Child (which, of course, was rejected by the label).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 18, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
It's the Dennis stuff that interests me most, but having said that, there are so many gems that show up once you trawl the archives. Things we never knew even existed before (well maybe just me).

 I'm thinking of Peaches right now as I type.

Was it widely known, for example that "New Song" evolved into "Transcendental Meditation" before the 1968 CE release? It certainly wasn't known when that first hit the internet in the 90s.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 06:18:08 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 06:20:18 AM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 19, 2020, 08:07:19 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on February 19, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?
After. He and Christine worked at Tom Murphy's Track Record after this date. I produced an artist friend of mine at Track. On a shelf in the control room was one of their 2" master reels. My friend remembers the tape, too. The date on his tape box is March 28, 1982.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 19, 2020, 11:04:43 AM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.

Yes, but my point was that several of the songs that were going to be reused were all from the 1969-1970 period.
Also, I forgot that Good Time was on the Spring album from 1972.
And Ding Dang is clearly one of the examples of Brian just really wanting to get a song out in the world. It was recorded in 73, but Brian was obsessed with that song for years


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.

Yes, but my point was that several of the songs that were going to be reused were all from the 1969-1970 period.
Also, I forgot that Good Time was on the Spring album from 1972.
And Ding Dang is clearly one of the examples of Brian just really wanting to get a song out in the world. It was recorded in 73, but Brian was obsessed with that song for years

I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.

Specifically as to "Good Time", I always figured it did have a *relatively* similar sparse arrangement as the tracks on "Love You."

As for "Ding Dang", I don't think that needs much explanation. It's one of countless "Shortenin' Bread" off-shoots/variants Brian had rolling around in his head.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 19, 2020, 03:03:36 PM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 19, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?
After. He and Christine worked at Tom Murphy's Track Record after this date. I produced an artist friend of mine at Track. On a shelf in the control room was one of their 2" master reels. My friend remembers the tape, too. The date on his tape box is March 28, 1982.

I read about some of those tracks a few years ago. I still for the life of me can't  figure out how Shortnin' Bread and My Solution were meant to go
together.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 20, 2020, 12:14:02 AM
Strangely enough, I can!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 06:23:23 AM
I read about some of those tracks a few years ago. I still for the life of me can't  figure out how Shortnin' Bread and My Solution were meant to go
together.

If you hear those 1980 backing tracks, it kinda starts to make *some* sense, if only in that they have a very similar recording ambience having presumably been recorded at the same time. But I’d say I can only really imagine as more of a medley, with one song simply leading into the next.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 07:28:52 AM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.

While not officially credited as such, "Walkin' the Line" seems to crib a noticeable bit from Al's "Looking Down the Coast".

Also, if one believes Dennis Wilson and possibly Garby Leon helped write "City Blues", then that's another example.

Brian's "On Christmas Day" is essentially a partial remake of "Belles of Paris/Bells of Christmas", though who wrote what on the older BB tracks (which includes Brian, Al, and Mike as I recall) is unclear.

Mike did this a few times it would seem. The outtake "Tricia" sounds to me to be a partial re-write of "Sandy/Sherry She Needs Me".

Rather infamously, "Summer of Love" is the last in a long line of tracks riffing on the same deal: Child of Winter/Mike Come Back To LA/Wontcha Come Out Tonight/Some of Your Love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 20, 2020, 08:56:37 AM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.

While not officially credited as such, "Walkin' the Line" seems to crib a noticeable bit from Al's "Looking Down the Coast".

Also, if one believes Dennis Wilson and possibly Garby Leon helped write "City Blues", then that's another example.

Brian's "On Christmas Day" is essentially a partial remake of "Belles of Paris/Bells of Christmas", though who wrote what on the older BB tracks (which includes Brian, Al, and Mike as I recall) is unclear.

Mike did this a few times it would seem. The outtake "Tricia" sounds to me to be a partial re-write of "Sandy/Sherry She Needs Me".

Rather infamously, "Summer of Love" in the last in a long line of tracks riffing on the same deal: Child of Winter/Mike Come Back To LA/Wontcha Come Out Tonight/Some of Your Love.

Thanks for that list, HJ. Very cool.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on February 20, 2020, 12:12:58 PM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.

I've got nothing to base this on and I might be totally wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the version of "She Believes In Love Again" from the TWGMTR sessions is an overdubbed version of Bruce's solo version from the sampler.

Also to add onto Bruce's obsession with his small list of songs he's written, lets not forget his re-recording of "Disney Girls" as a solo track in 1975 (for some reason credited to Papa Doo Run Run), only to be re-recorded again for his 1977 solo album Going Public and then again in the '90s for his orchestral project. Gotta say, Bruce has written a few tunes and he definitely tries to wring everything he can out of them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on February 20, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
RE: "STEVIE" --

I told Stevie Nicks the backstory of the song and got a copy of it to her. She was amazed and had never heard a thing about it. She kept asking "Brian wrote it -- not Dennis?" She was at a loss because she said, "I don't think Brian ever said a single word to me -- ever."

She added that she once caught Dennis perched in a tree watching her in her bedroom. . . . . 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 20, 2020, 01:46:35 PM
RE: "STEVIE" --

I told Stevie Nicks the backstory of the song and got a copy of it to her. She was amazed and had never heard a thing about it. She kept asking "Brian wrote it -- not Dennis?" She was at a loss because she said, "I don't think Brian ever said a single word to me -- ever."

She added that she once caught Dennis perched in a tree watching her in her bedroom. . . . .  

Wow. Maybe Brian had a huge crush on Stevie (like the rest of the world), but was too intimidated to talk to her.

"Stevie" seems to continue the tradition started with "My Diane" where the love or fixation that one Wilson brother had for a woman was oddly handed off to a different Wilson brother to sing the lead vocal on. Only in the case of Stevie, maybe Brian wrote the lyrics from Denny's perspective, but sang them himself? Impossible to know. To think about both songs from a psychological perspective is a fascinating mindf*ck. Maybe it was too personal and embarrassing which caused the change in singer.

There's *got* to be some fascinating backstory with "Stevie", both in terms of content and how it came to be, and it's especially a historically significant song being the only time Denny produced Brian. Can't believe it hasn't been released considering how good it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 01:56:26 PM
Funny thing is that I remember someone online years ago pitching the idea, seemingly partly seriously, that the song was about someone else, even Stevie Wonder. What else could it be? Desper? Kalinich? Stephen Love?

I guess the song takes on a new dimension in that context.....

I can't imagine it being anyone else but Nicks of course, regardless of whose "point of view" the song is supposed to be from.

Regarding all of the purported Dennis/Christine McVie recordings, I'm curious: A) How they've never surfaced for the most part, even though some pretty obscure stuff ("Cocaine/Hamburger Tape", etc.) has surfaced. and B) How substantive/finished the material is. How much is noodling/vamping, how much is backing tracks or just piano tracks with no melody/vocals, and what might be in even a somewhat "finished" state.

Also, C) Do they *really* exist, like multiple studio reels of completely unheard collaborations between the two?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on February 20, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
Regarding all of the purported Dennis/Christine McVie recordings, I'm curious: A) How they've never surfaced for the most part, even though some pretty obscure stuff ("Cocaine/Hamburger Tape", etc.) has surfaced. and B) How substantive/finished the material is. How much is noodling/vamping, how much is backing tracks or just piano tracks with no melody/vocals, and what might be in even a somewhat "finished" state.

Also, C) Do they *really* exist, like multiple studio reels of completely unheard collaborations between the two?

The Dennis/Christine material to me, is something I'm filing under "amazing if true" but the thing is what could really be there? As a variation of what the poster above says, is there anything beyond noodling around? And if so, if they were cutting actual songs, were the actually finished. I assume whatever it is, it's not bells and whistles. So at best, hopefully some piano pieces with a decent vocal. And I don't see any duets. Is Dennis early '80s voice and Christine's voice even compatible? It'd be interesting to see what's up with all this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 20, 2020, 03:42:30 PM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.

I've got nothing to base this on and I might be totally wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the version of "She Believes In Love Again" from the TWGMTR sessions is an overdubbed version of Bruce's solo version from the sampler.

Also to add onto Bruce's obsession with his small list of songs he's written, lets not forget his re-recording of "Disney Girls" as a solo track in 1975 (for some reason credited to Papa Doo Run Run), only to be re-recorded again for his 1977 solo album Going Public and then again in the '90s for his orchestral project. Gotta say, Bruce has written a few tunes and he definitely tries to wring everything he can out of them.
Excuse me?
Bruce Has written every single song that has ever existed. He said it so himself, remember?
“ I've been alive forever
And I wrote the very first song
I put the words and the melodies together
I am music and I write the songs”
So remember, there is no songs written by Brian Wilson. Or Mike Love.
Not even sure why Mike went after Brian for writing credits, it’s clear Bruce did everything 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on February 20, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
I spoke very briefly with Bruce yesterday before a show and he mentioned a Sunflower release coming out in summer. That's all I got.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 20, 2020, 06:57:14 PM
I spoke very briefly with Bruce yesterday before a show and he mentioned a Sunflower release coming out in summer. That's all I got.
Yeh! Some news.
I didn’t think it would come out this month.
My guess is a basic set in July or August, with a remastered Sunflower, and another disk or 2 with extras. Around 60-70 tracks in total.
Then, in December we will get a digital exclusive with more live performances and session excerpts.
Very similar to the 2017 sets


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 21, 2020, 03:22:38 PM
Strangely enough, I can!
Show me. Record a mash-up of the two songs together(from scratch), as you hear/imagine it.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 21, 2020, 03:40:17 PM
If i recall correctly they also recorded a remake/re-recording of Can't Wait Too Long during that period/year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on February 21, 2020, 06:54:10 PM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

Disc One (remastered/remixed... nothing on CD yet compares to Desper's master of the British release in quality)
 1. "Cottonfields" (Al's single version in stereo)  3:15
 2. "Slip-On Through"   2:17
 3. "This Whole World"   1:56
 4. "Add Some Music to Your Day"   3:34
 5. "Got to Know the Woman" 2:41
 6. "Deirdre"  3:27
 7. "It's About Time"  2:55
 8. "Tears in the Morning" 4:07
 9. "All I Wanna Do" 2:34
10. "Forever" 2:40
11. "Our Sweet Love" 2:38
12. "At My Window" 2:30
13. "Cool, Cool Water"   5:03
bonus tracks
14. Breakaway 2:56
15. Celebrate The News 3:07
16. Susie Cinncinati ('70 b-side mix) 3:05
17. Fallin In Love  3:02 (yeah, keep the 2012 version)
18. Sounds Of Free (stereo, somehow, sounds so out of place in mono) 2:26
19. Good Time ('70 mix) 2:50
20. When Girls Get Together ('70 mix) 3:31
Total length:   61:07

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)

 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on February 21, 2020, 09:10:01 PM
Perhaps they could release the whole "Landlocked" album on vinyl to coincide with the box set and promote it as a "lost album".

Even though it's an album that didn't exist in the first place, it will probably help gather more attention from rock magazines and casual Beach Boys fans alike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on February 21, 2020, 09:10:40 PM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

...

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
09. “I’m Going Your Way”
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)


You missed one... ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on February 22, 2020, 08:00:29 AM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

...

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
09. “I’m Going Your Way”
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)


You missed one... ;D


I'm sure I missed a lot more then one  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 22, 2020, 04:36:45 PM
Perhaps they could release the whole "Landlocked" album on vinyl to coincide with the box set and promote it as a "lost album".

Even though it's an album that didn't exist in the first place, it will probably help gather more attention from rock magazines and casual Beach Boys fans alike.
Landlocked was the original name of Surfs Up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on February 23, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
I'm hoping it will include "Feel Flows" with the "surface joy" lyrics.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 24, 2020, 03:33:43 AM
I'm hoping it will include "Feel Flows" with the "surface joy" lyrics.
I totally forgot about that! If you listen very closely, you can hear a voice buried in the second verse that seems to be singing another lyric that doesn't fit with the "main" voice singing the second verse.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 24, 2020, 06:42:00 AM
I wouldn't even begin to try to construct what I think would be an ideal 1970/71 set, because the whole idea is that there is stuff in the vaults we haven't heard and/or don't know about.

I don't particularly need another simple remastering of the same mixes/tracks we already have seen released. *Remixes* would be of more interest, but even then there is *so much* completely unheard material/songs, *that* should be the focus.

Ideally, a set is big enough to focus on a lot of different types of material. But at the end of the day, we need more "I'm Going Your Way" and that sort of stuff, not another remastering of "I Just Got My Pay".

If we got a 4-5 disc boxed set, I'd hate for like two of the discs to be hogged with another re-re-remastering of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" and then another remastering of all the non-album tracks that have *already* been released on the GV box, the MIC set, etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 24, 2020, 04:19:14 PM
My main interest is hearing any previously unheard Brian vocals,especially during this period and the one immediately after


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on February 25, 2020, 03:39:43 AM
I wonder if the hadwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, which were "The father's life is done, And the children carry on" which supossedly would have occured right before the "Child, Child Child" coda were ever recorded? That would be an interseting find if indeed they were.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aeijtzsche on February 26, 2020, 07:11:02 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 27, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."
Yes. And he plays new mixes of San Miguel, and the back track for the single version of Cotton Fields.
As Brian would say, it was “outta sight.”
If you are going to watch it, and you just want to here the music:
San Miguel: 3:02:49
Cotton Fields: 3:34:37
The hopeful fall release: 3:38:55


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on February 27, 2020, 10:48:17 AM
San Miguel is such a great track.  I am surprised it never made it onto Sunflower or Surf's Up.  My one gripe with it is that they don't repeat the catchy chorus/second verse. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 27, 2020, 12:01:20 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."
Yes. And he plays new mixes of San Miguel, and the back track for the single version of Cotton Fields.
As Brian would say, it was “outta sight.”
If you are going to watch it, and you just want to here the music:
San Miguel: 3:02:49
Cotton Fields: 3:34:37
The hopeful fall release: 3:38:55

Yeah, the backing tracks of that tunes are so amazing!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 27, 2020, 05:57:27 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 28, 2020, 04:48:03 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release



yeah, maybe they're going to release it 'til early December


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on February 29, 2020, 10:24:52 AM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release



yeah, maybe they're going to release it 'til early December
They'll be competing with the new Let It Be movie and box set plus there is always a slim chance of an All Things Must Pass 50th release (but totally a hopeful guess by me).  Going to be an interesting fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on February 29, 2020, 12:01:48 PM
I wouldn't even begin to try to construct what I think would be an ideal 1970/71 set, because the whole idea is that there is stuff in the vaults we haven't heard and/or don't know about.

I don't particularly need another simple remastering of the same mixes/tracks we already have seen released. *Remixes* would be of more interest, but even then there is *so much* completely unheard material/songs, *that* should be the focus.


Remixes would be sweet.  The Beatles albums that were remixed in the last few years have been really nice.  But I'm sure this box set will have a cornucopia of content.  I'm hopeful we'll get an official announcement of this box set in the next few months at least.   Really excited about this. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 05, 2020, 04:54:38 PM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 05, 2020, 05:47:05 PM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available
yeah, i think that they're going to release My Solution this year, Capitol's main priority is releasing archival BB's stuff due to the 2012 european law 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 06, 2020, 12:08:52 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available
yeah, i think that they're going to release My Solution this year, Capitol's main priority is releasing archival BB's stuff due to the 2012 european law 

Bless those Europeans for putting that law into affect. That is indirectly led to all of this wonderful music being released.

What if it turns out there were some hardcore BBs fans in European politics who got the law to happen so that it would  lead to the releases we have been gifted with. I'm sure it's not true, but it's funny to consider it…


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 06, 2020, 04:48:15 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.

I've never heard this. Source??

Quote
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?

Well...my thoughts are twofold here:

1) The law only applies to, what??? Europe?? It's still technically protected in the rest of the world. It might not be worth their trouble for such a limited scope.

2) Having said that, maybe one thing they could do is figure out if there's a minimum length of time that the music has to be available in order for it to count for renewed copyright. Let's say the music has to be available for a minimum of one hour. I could easily see them very quietly making the music available but only to certain areas at the most inconvenient time to download, and then once that minimum time is met, yank the music. I think people were afraid that The Beatles' lone copyright extension release was like that -- it went online, but then shortly after it was taken down with no hint that it ever existed. (It reemerged later on that day -- I think the consensus was that there was a problem with the original upload, like incorrect pricing or something.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 06, 2020, 06:57:19 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.

I've never heard this. Source??

Quote
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?

Well...my thoughts are twofold here:

1) The law only applies to, what??? Europe?? It's still technically protected in the rest of the world. It might not be worth their trouble for such a limited scope.

2) Having said that, maybe one thing they could do is figure out if there's a minimum length of time that the music has to be available in order for it to count for renewed copyright. Let's say the music has to be available for a minimum of one hour. I could easily see them very quietly making the music available but only to certain areas at the most inconvenient time to download, and then once that minimum time is met, yank the music. I think people were afraid that The Beatles' lone copyright extension release was like that -- it went online, but then shortly after it was taken down with no hint that it ever existed. (It reemerged later on that day -- I think the consensus was that there was a problem with the original upload, like incorrect pricing or something.)
It was from a September 2013 interview with Rock Cellar Magazine


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 06, 2020, 09:25:23 AM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 06, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).

Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 06, 2020, 04:27:50 PM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).

Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian
yeah, i remember reading that about Carry Me Home not being released


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on March 06, 2020, 10:45:33 PM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on March 07, 2020, 10:13:21 AM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 07, 2020, 11:14:09 AM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.

So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on March 07, 2020, 12:02:22 PM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doinnothin on March 07, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.

I raise you one Neil Young


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 08, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on March 08, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 08, 2020, 05:05:18 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)

Yes - and I assume that's because there was no solo recorded for the track in '79/'80. Carl played both bass and rhythm guitar on the song, drummer Scott Mathews says he also played bass on it (there are actually no less than three bass tracks on the recording), and Al also laid down a rhythm guitar track. So, lots of guitars there!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 09, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian

Well, it's probably not particularly constructive to debate whether "Lazy Lizzie" is more offensive or creepy than those other songs. Yes, all three songs form a trio of songs that, despite Brian writing them from a presumably innocent point of view, are undeniably creepy given the full context of who is singing the songs, the ages of those writing and singing, etc.

The issue with "Lazy Lizzie" versus the other two songs is that the other two songs were released over 40 years ago and currently reside quietly on relatively obscure BB albums.

"Lazy Lizzie", if it were released, would be on a relatively low-key archival release. But the difference is that, again whether one agrees or disagrees with it, offense and controversy re-emerge due to some sort of impetus. That usually comes when something new is put out on the marketplace. So if "Hey Little Tomboy" were to be included on some new hits compilation that got a lot of attention (yes, I know there's no reason that would happen, but let's imagine it did), it might garner new attention it hasn't in the past and, not for the first time, something that has existed for half a century that was *just as potentially offensive* 20 years ago as it is now, could all of a sudden be deemed in 2020 to be offensive and ignite a backlash.

Believe me, I've wondered for a number of years in the age of social media outrage (again, whether one agrees with it or not; I imagine a lot of us view it as sometimes being justified, sometimes not) about whether some random clickbait writer will spew out some story about "Hey Little Tomboy" and bring it to the attention of a non-fan audience that just waits around for something to be offended by.

And, to be honest, while a huge controversy or calling into question the character of Brian or any of the band members is something I think would be far too excessive, I don't think a calm, respectful analysis of these songs that includes pointing out that they are and maybe always were kind of weird/creepy/inappropriate would be out of line. The problem is that such a piece will not be written for mainstream consumption. It will be written to "catch" Brian and the band 87 years after the fact, and it will be written by a non-fan, someone who isn't familiar enough with Brian to know that his deal in that era was writing these songs from an innocent, juvenile point of view.

I said I wasn't going to parse these songs too much, but I would say that while the argument can always be made that these songs are written from the point of view of someone of an age appropriate to be socializing with the subjects of the songs, "Lazy Lizzie" sounds kind of creepy and predatory even if the "narrator" of the song is of the same age.

Again, to be very clear, I'm a fan and scholar of the band, and I have a brain that can reason, and I can put all of this stuff in context, and I'm very aware that these songs are more curiosities than something to be alarmed about. I have no problem calling them creepy and maybe sexist/offensive, etc. That doesn't make me think Brian or the guys are bad people. There are just these hand full of songs that have a clear creepy vibe despite the writer/performer intentions. I think it's insulting someone's intelligence to deny that, *on the surface*, a then-35-ish-year-old man singing about following a high school girl around as she walks home from school seems inappropriate/creepy, etc. Again, once one knows Brian's deal and where his head was at, and the astonishing level of innocence he wrote with, and the degree to which he was closed off from a lot of modern sensibilities (whether they be social norms or musical styles/subjects), it's easy to understand the clear innocence with which these weird songs were written.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 09, 2020, 09:10:05 AM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song), and also whether it's deemed to be among the higher quality outtakes. Neither of those factors seem to make it more likely to see release. The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 09:17:07 AM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 09, 2020, 09:17:41 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.

Sometimes I'm cool with Brian recycling old melodies - he has certainly done it plenty of times! For some reason, I just hear creative atrophy when I listen to this particular song, more so than virtually any song by Brian from this time period. Yet we know he had way, way more great music in him, just around the corner.

IMHO, I just think this sounds like what a song would sound like if Brian was given a demand to write a song in 20 minutes, at a moment where he wasn't feeling creative inspiration. I suppose it's possible that if I heard the raw, perfect quality session tapes, that my opinion of the song could be improved a little.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on March 09, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
Jack Rieley even said he wished Brian fleshed out the Mt Vernon fragments into full songs, mentioning Better Get Back in Bed in particular! Leaf's book had some praise for it too.

There's a ton going on in that arrangement that the boot quality obscures. More so than most of Brian's Love You era productions. Organ, piano, three basses (including one with a fuzztone and a bowed string bass), tambourine, bongos, congas, harmonica, trumpets, baritone sax...

That doesn't make it better but I wouldn't call it uninspired.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 09, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)

Yes - and I assume that's because there was no solo recorded for the track in '79/'80. Carl played both bass and rhythm guitar on the song, drummer Scott Mathews says he also played bass on it (there are actually no less than three bass tracks on the recording), and Al also laid down a rhythm guitar track. So, lots of guitars there!

You may recall that something called Tongal had some kind of you record the guitar solo competition, which allowed people to download a flac file of the Goin' To The Beach track sans modern overdubs.

There was another unique track available from the Tongal site too, from memory. If I go looking thru my collection I might find them.
 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 09, 2020, 01:32:41 PM

For a thread ostensibly about a 1970-71 box set, there's an awful lot of discussion of 1976-1980 tracks (which I have also contributed to).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 09, 2020, 03:11:31 PM

For a thread ostensibly about a 1970-71 box set, there's an awful lot of discussion of 1976-1980 tracks (which I have also contributed to).
yeah, I think that it started with the discussion of the remake track of My Solution


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 09, 2020, 06:32:57 PM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.
The thing about never learn not to love is that they didn’t know until years later. Probably late 70s, early 80s. As several bandmembers have said, for the longest time, they just thought it was a Dennis track


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 10:07:47 PM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.
The thing about never learn not to love is that they didn’t know until years later. Probably late 70s, early 80s. As several bandmembers have said, for the longest time, they just thought it was a Dennis track

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 10, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.

I'm with you - I love Lazy Lizzie and would love to hear a well-mixed and mastered version of the song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 10, 2020, 11:01:28 AM

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.

It wasn't a mystery to Stephen Desper who recorded Manson singing the song, at Dennis's behest.  But I'm not surprised that no one else knew.  I know Dennis was supporting Manson and the Family and after he had them evicted (by moving out of the rented house and stopping payments) he supposedly gave Manson money for the song - but I'm a little surprised Dennis didn't give Manson partial songwriting credit.  It was recorded in 1968 and released 6 months before the murders.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 10, 2020, 11:23:57 AM

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.

It wasn't a mystery to Stephen Desper who recorded Manson singing the song, at Dennis's behest.  But I'm not surprised that no one else knew.  I know Dennis was supporting Manson and the Family and after he had them evicted (by moving out of the rented house and stopping payments) he supposedly gave Manson money for the song - but I'm a little surprised Dennis didn't give Manson partial songwriting credit.  It was recorded in 1968 and released 6 months before the murders.


IIRC Dennis mentioned it in an interview around that time* that a) Manson wrote or co-wrote the song and b) he wanted just the cash.
BTW I think the contents of what Stephen Desper recorded with Manson are unknown. A songlist has never surfaced if I recall correctly.


* It's in the 1971 Rolling Stone article "A California Saga":

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beach-boys-a-california-saga-part-ii-233192/

Dennis was asked if it was true Charles Manson wrote the words of “Never Learn Not to Love,” an eerie opus on the 20-20 album with an ominous message: Surrender . . . I’m your kind . . . Come in, closer, come in, closer, closer.

“That’s right, he did.”

Why didn’t you give him the label credit?

“He didn’t want that. He wanted money instead. I gave him about a hundred thousand dollars’ worth of stuff.

“But I don’t think you should put that in your story. I see no reason the story should mention him at all.”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 10, 2020, 12:41:06 PM
Regarding NLNTL / Manson, it would seem pretty obvious that what the band knew and what they were prepared to say publicly were 2 different things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 11, 2020, 11:28:38 AM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.

Quote from: Mike Love
For instance, they were going to do a Best Of The Beach Boys Volume Three in 19 - , whatever the hell it was, and I came in there and went, "Wait a second, call in Endless Summer." And instead of being Volume Three which sound nauseating to me...

He obviously forgot about the *actual* Best of the Beach Boys Volume Three that came out...and frankly, I don't blame him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 11, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Regarding NLNTL / Manson, it would seem pretty obvious that what the band knew and what they were prepared to say publicly were 2 different things.
Dennis knew, and I’m sure other members knew too, but as far as I know, at least by 1976, Brian didn’t know


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on March 11, 2020, 12:21:27 PM
Regarding NLNTL / Manson, it would seem pretty obvious that what the band knew and what they were prepared to say publicly were 2 different things.
Dennis knew, and I’m sure other members knew too, but as far as I know, at least by 1976, Brian didn’t know
Brian's reaction when Bob Harris brings that song up says otherwise.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 11, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.

Quote from: Mike Love
For instance, they were going to do a Best Of The Beach Boys Volume Three in 19 - , whatever the hell it was, and I came in there and went, "Wait a second, call in Endless Summer." And instead of being Volume Three which sound nauseating to me...

He obviously forgot about the *actual* Best of the Beach Boys Volume Three that came out...and frankly, I don't blame him.

What's interesting is that "Endless Summer" doesn't conform to what a "Greatest Hits Vol. 4" (or Vol. 3, etc.) would have been, because it repeats a bunch of the songs from those old GH albums. So it's not like it was just a title change. Mike's apparent idea essentially amounted to "Let's reissue the 'Best of the Beach Boys Vol. 1 and 2', switch around some tracks, and re-title it."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 11, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 11, 2020, 03:55:46 PM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on March 11, 2020, 04:08:15 PM
It was really weird seeing Al actually getting pissed off about it. He actually swore at the interviewer.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on March 12, 2020, 04:40:16 AM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!

Is this the interview where they are at a record store to do a meet and greet for the LA Album release?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 12, 2020, 06:50:35 AM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!

Is this the interview where they are at a record store to do a meet and greet for the LA Album release?


Could be; can't remember for sure. I just remember it was 1978 or 79, so yeah, they were plugging either MIU or LA. LA is probably more likely, as they seemed to do more publicity for that one.

I don't remember Al swearing, just a rather stuffy news guy *relatively* innocently asking Brian about something to do with Manson, and Al being agitated and doing a "don't ask about that, we're not here to talk about that" bit. It wasn't like Al started screaming and ran the guy out of the room. But it was a more firm, awkward refusal and admonition than typically seen in interviews with BBs or Al specifically.

I might still have this archived away somewhere on an old laptop or something. I'll have to check.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 12, 2020, 12:49:20 PM
I remember seeing that a few years ago. That's a pretty good description of how it played out. Al was just trying to keep things positive.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on March 12, 2020, 02:30:36 PM
Al says something like "That's bullshit", and then basically redirected the questioning, but in a bit of a harsher tone than usual. The weird thing is that the interviewer brings manson's name up completely out of nowhere. I got the distinct impression that whoever asked the question didn't seem to have a firm grasp on who Manson even was.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 12, 2020, 09:48:25 PM
You would be surprised how many people know about the BB Manson connection.
I was talking to my friend, who knows nothing about the BBs, and I was telling him all about Brian, and he asks, “Didn’t he help Manson with the murders?” I literally was shocked.
I obviously explained the true story, how Dennis was the one who let Manson live out of his house, and they worked on some music. I explained how the BBs were in no way responsible or the cause of Manson’s crime.
Thats the problem with the BBs talking about Manson, no matter how many times they talk about what actually happened, all most people take away is that the BBs were connected to a famous murderer


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 14, 2020, 08:43:19 AM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 14, 2020, 08:54:20 AM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"

Well, at least it doesn't happen the other way around - meaning, someone just mentions The Beach Boys, and someone else automatically says, "Oh yeah, they knew Charles Manson". At least, HOPEFULLY not!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 14, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"

Well, at least it doesn't happen the other way around - meaning, someone just mentions The Beach Boys, and someone else automatically says, "Oh yeah, they knew Charles Manson". At least, HOPEFULLY not!
It does unfortunately


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
How long before any release should we expect to have a press release, track listing or any other firm details on this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on March 18, 2020, 06:14:28 AM
From what I can gather from BBFC site....

Made in California - press release on June 11, 2013 for the release on August 27

Beach Boys' Party: Uncovered and Unplugged - press release on Oct 22, 2015 for the release on November 20

Pet Sounds 50th - press release on March 23, 2016 for the release on June 10

Sunshine Tomorrow - press release on May 23, 2017 for the release on June 30



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 11:03:17 AM
Suppose that means at least four weeks before, but potentially a couple of months (if we're lucky).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 18, 2020, 05:31:52 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?




i feel that the whole Feel Flows box set it's going to be a major thing spanning from 1969-1971-ish, well, who knows, the lack of news only makes us create a lot of suppositions


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on March 19, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 19, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Good call. I remember dreaming that they would do this for their 33 1/3 rd anniversary, with 33 1/3rd tracks, - for some reason I felt the Oxnard remote recording of Mr Moto was a good fit for the 1/3rd!!

Seriously though, this would be so good.
The live tracks coming out during this copyright extension era have been an absolute revelation. Only wishing the recording of Rock and Roll Woman was released (proper release, not the version from Amercan Band video).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 19, 2020, 06:18:46 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Good call. I remember dreaming that they would do this for their 33 1/3 rd anniversary, with 33 1/3rd tracks, - for some reason I felt the Oxnard remote recording of Mr Moto was a good fit for the 1/3rd!!

Seriously though, this would be so good.
The live tracks coming out during this copyright extension era have been an absolute revelation. Only wishing the recording of Rock and Roll Woman was released (proper release, not the version from Amercan Band video).
the version of Rock 'N' Roll Woman was a cutted/edited version, right? i feel that it's so short (last about minute and half)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 20, 2020, 12:14:13 AM
According to this, about 1:28

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=longlostsurfsongs3


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 20, 2020, 01:51:05 AM
According to this, about 1:28

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=longlostsurfsongs3
well, I only missed for 2 seconds XD


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on April 10, 2020, 05:48:15 AM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aeijtzsche on April 10, 2020, 06:47:22 AM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?

No one who would know, and yes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on April 16, 2020, 11:33:18 PM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?

Why would it have ever been put out in March in the first place?  There has been no official press release of it yet. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on April 17, 2020, 12:43:14 AM
This video just posted on Brian's YouTube account in which he talks (none too interestingly, it must be said) about Feel Flows (the song) seems like a good sign, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8v3VVgqtOA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2dXhuByqALAg7dIiVGwc7sZOjV0mJP_jHhyolqPSH874y4P4gwzpob3tA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on April 17, 2020, 01:43:31 AM
This video just posted on Brian's YouTube account in which he talks (none too interestingly, it must be said) about Feel Flows (the song) seems like a good sign, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8v3VVgqtOA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2dXhuByqALAg7dIiVGwc7sZOjV0mJP_jHhyolqPSH874y4P4gwzpob3tA


Not really. It's from the "Warmth of the sun"-podcast from around 2006.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on April 17, 2020, 04:03:53 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on April 17, 2020, 07:34:48 AM
If I were UMG, I'd bump the release to Christmas.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on April 17, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?

They've been posting snippets of Brian Wilson interviews about specific songs for the last two weeks. They've been all over the place in terms of timeline, early 1960s to 1970s. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just the content machine churning out material for clicks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on April 17, 2020, 07:30:09 PM
If I were UMG, I'd bump the release to Christmas.
Fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on April 18, 2020, 03:54:42 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?

They've been posting snippets of Brian Wilson interviews about specific songs for the last two weeks. They've been all over the place in terms of timeline, early 1960s to 1970s. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just the content machine churning out material for clicks.

Aren't they just from that Warmth of The Sun comp tie in podcast from 2007?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 01, 2020, 03:49:40 PM

Any news on the status of this? it would really brighten up the lockdown.

Also wondering if with rumors of a 60th anniversary reunion of sorts, maybe a new compilation might come out, maybe with one or two archival tracks from late seventies. That'd be nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 02, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
If it did have a release date it's most likely been postponed


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 02, 2020, 11:59:43 AM

Any news on the status of this? it would really brighten up the lockdown.

Also wondering if with rumors of a 60th anniversary reunion of sorts, maybe a new compilation might come out, maybe with one or two archival tracks from late seventies. That'd be nice.

Fall
Also, probably expect the copyright extensions to continue every year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on May 04, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
The sooner the better I say! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 07:55:41 AM
The sooner the better I say! 
It’s fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 11:06:25 AM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 05, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it

Very late August seems like a VERY good guess, not only because it's the actual anniversary date, but because it's still technically (barely) during the summer, which makes it more of a Beach Boys "thing", and also it's as far as they can push the release out away from the timeline epicenter of the Coronavirus and have it still be a summer BBs release. I would tend to think it's too perfect a date for these multiple reasons for it to be released any other time in 2020 but then. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 05, 2020, 12:26:11 PM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it

I never disagreed with any of this.  I haven't the faintest why so many people seem to think this thing is just going to magically pop up in the immediate future.  There has been no official announcement or press release for it yet; we only have Jardine's and Linett's word to go by. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on May 05, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
I can see some digital teasers before fall but that's just my opinion. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 05, 2020, 01:27:39 PM
I see this coming around Aug/Sep, being close to the actual anniversary date.

My next question would be, do people see this being followed by "less releasable" tracks, plus completists live recordings via digital releases in Dec?

 I'm thinking along the lines of 2017s "Sunshine Tomorrow" (physical release), followed by "Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and "Live Sunshine".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
I see this coming around Aug/Sep, being close to the actual anniversary date.

My next question would be, do people see this being followed by "less releasable" tracks, plus completists live recordings via digital releases in Dec?

 I'm thinking along the lines of 2017s "Sunshine Tomorrow" (physical release), followed by "Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and "Live Sunshine".
They could do that. That’s the most likely.
Or, they could do what they did back in 2011 with the Smile Sessions, where there is a 2 disk set with all the remixes and bonuses, then a 4 or 5 disk set with tons of live performances, studio outtakes, etc.
Personally, I am more inclined to think that your suggestion is probably going to be what happens. Around August or September, we get the actual box set, and then we get the digital only exclusives in December.
It’s all really confusing, especially with the pandemic, and the fact that I have no idea how they’re going to handle vinyl, seeing as the vinyl community is kind of in disarray at the moment.
Also, this kind of goes without saying, but I highly doubt that the official title is going to be Feel Flows.
If they choose a song title from either of these albums, it’s probably going to be more along the lines of Add Some Music to Your Day. Or, I had a kind of cool idea. They could call it Long Promised Road, just like the upcoming documentary, and kind of tie the two in together.
Or they could take the boring route, and literally just call the thing Sunflower and Surf's Up (Deluxe edition)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 22, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 22, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

Isn't the line "Good for my soul"?  I'll admit, though, that I can't remember which song it's even from - all I can think of at the moment is, "You've got so much soul, you blow my mind!" from "Got To Know The Woman".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 22, 2020, 08:46:30 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

Isn't the line "Good for my soul"?  I'll admit, though, that I can't remember which song it's even from - all I can think of at the moment is, "You've got so much soul, you blow my mind!" from "Got To Know The Woman".
The Sunday morning gospel is good for the soul 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 22, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
The Sunday morning gospel goes good with the soul . . .


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Fall Breaks on May 22, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Those last two days were good for my soul ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on May 23, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
I think they're going to call it "Take a Load off Your Feet, Pete".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 23, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
There’s blues folk and country and ROCK like a rolling stone



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 23, 2020, 10:05:59 PM
Those last two days were good for my soul ...

I forgot about those lyrics, but they're just not on par with the lyrics from Add some music  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 25, 2020, 06:15:54 AM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 25, 2020, 02:27:20 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase.  

I take your point, but to my mind there won't be a lot of purchases of an archival release like this by people who wouldn't be aware of the source of that "Good with the Soul" lyric (ie. fairly hard core Beach Boys fans).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on May 26, 2020, 08:00:09 PM
No matter WHAT you call it, archival releases are pretty much just for the hardcore fans in the first place.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on May 27, 2020, 06:17:16 AM
I'd vote for "It's About Time"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 27, 2020, 07:46:11 AM
But I don’t think that this is just an archival release. Obviously, most of it’s going to be archival, but I feel like it’s going to be a complete repackaging of those albums. Or at least one of them, probably Sunflower.
That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a name like “Sunflower (Super Deluxe Addition)” or something like that


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 27, 2020, 02:08:53 PM
But I don’t think that this is just an archival release. Obviously, most of it’s going to be archival, but I feel like it’s going to be a complete repackaging of those albums. Or at least one of them, probably Sunflower.
That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a name like “Sunflower (Super Deluxe Addition)” or something like that

I think Edition is more likely than Addition.

(Not being nasty, more and more errors like this are all over the place, and I'm certainly not immune from typos, auto-correct faux pas etc.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 27, 2020, 02:20:32 PM
I misread that as “Addiction “. 😒 Well, I certainly AM addicted to music :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 28, 2020, 05:48:16 AM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase.  

I take your point, but to my mind there won't be a lot of purchases of an archival release like this by people who wouldn't be aware of the source of that "Good with the Soul" lyric (ie. fairly hard core Beach Boys fans).

Well, Sunshine Tomorrow did very well sales-wise (exceeding whatever the expectations were), and that's not an obvious title.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 06, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
So while we are still waiting on this, I thought it would be fun to propose some track lists. My guess is that The first 12 tracks will be remixed and remastered versions of Sunflower. The rest is uncertain, but I’m going to copy and paste a post from the https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-2019-copyright-extension-speculation.886274/ Steve Hoffman forums with detailed breakdown of the sunflower sessions.
1969:
January
9 - session: Forever/San Miguel
13 - session: San Miguel (remake) [Sunset]
22 - session: San Miguel [Valentine - 2 sessions]
24 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]
27 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]
29 - session: San Miguel [Capitol]

February
13 - session: Got To Know The Woman [Sunset]
14 - session: Got To Know The Woman [Sunset]
21 - session: Deidrie
24 - session: What Can The Matter Be ?/Celebrate The News [Sunset]
25 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]

March
3 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]
5 - session: Loop De Loop [Western]
6 - session: Loop De Loop [Western]
8 - session: Loop De Loop
11 - session: Loop De Loop [Sunset]
12 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
14 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
17 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
19 - session: All I Wanna Do [Gold Star]
21 - session: Deidrie [Gold Star]
31 - single session: Break Away [ID Sound]

April
2 - single session: Break Away
10 - single session: Break Away vocals [ID Sound]
23 - single session: Break Away [Gold Star]

May
24 - session: What Can The Matter Be [Valentine]

July
9 - session: Slip On Through
14 - session: Slip On Through/I'm Going Your Way (= California Slide) [Sunset]

August
8 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version)
15 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version) [Sunset]
22 - Kalinich poetry album session: America, I Know You [Wally Heider][5]
29 - session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine [Sunset]

September
5 - session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine [Sunset]

October
6 - Add Some Music session: Slip On Through
13 - Add Some Music session: Walkin'
20 - Add Some Music session: Games Two Can Play
28 - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

November
3 - Add Some Music session: 'untitled'
4 - Add Some Music session: When Girls Get Together
6 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine/Our Sweet Love/'Til I Die (demo) [Sunset]
9 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine vocals
10 - Add Some Music session: 'untitled'
11 - Add Some Music session: Raspberries, Strawberries (= At My Window)
13 - Add Some Music session: This Whole World
18 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning
?? - Add Some Music session: Where is She ?

December
23 - Dennis Wilson session: 'Dennis' piano interlude' (= (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again demo)
24 - Add Some Music session: Susie Cincinnati/Back Home
26 - Add Some Music session: Lady
?? - Add Some Music session: Carnival (= Over The Waves) [9]
?? - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

1970 Sessions

January
2 - Add Some Music session: 'Untitled #3'
5 - Add Some Music session: I Just Got My Pay/Carnival (= Over The Waves)
7 - Add Some Music session:
Susie Cincinnati/Good Time/You Never Give Me Your Money
9 - Add Some Music session: Carnival (= Over The Waves)
17 - Add Some Music session: Take A Load Off Your Feet, Pete
18 - Add Some Music session: Back Home [demo]
19 - Add Some Music session: Back Home
26 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning/Our Sweet Love/Take A Load Off
Your Feet/Fallin' In Love (= Lady) strings
27 - Live In London session: mixing (Capitol) [1]
28 - Live In London session: mixing (Capitol)
28 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning [piano tag - Valentine]
?? - Add Some Music session: Back Home
?? - Add Some Music session: Take A Load Off Your Feet
?? - Add Some Music session: Cool, Cool Water
?? - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

February
2 - Add Some Music session: Susie Cincinatti [car fx]
18 - Add Some Music session: mastering and album assembled
the tracks for the first offering to Reprise were as follows: Susie Cincinnati/Good
Time/Our Sweet Love/Tears In The Morning/When Girls Get Together/Slip On
Through/Add Some Music To Your Day/Take A Load Off Your Feet/This Whole
World/I Just Got My Pay/At My Window/Fallin' In Love [Artisan Sounds]

April
17, 21, 28, 29 - Fred Vail country album session: the following titles were recorded over the
four sessions - Bethany Ann*/There's Always Something There To Remind
Me*/Kittens, Kids & Kites/Lucky Billy/Black Man In Georgia/One Woman
Won't Hold Me/Why Don't You Give Her To Me/If You're Not Loving, You're
Not Living/All For The Love Of A Girl*/Only The Lonely*/Carolina On My
Mind/My Way Of Life*/A Fool Such As I*/You Pass Me By/I Can't Help It If
I'm Still In Love With You [Wally Heider's][3]

June
19 - session: master for "Last Capitol Album" prepared. The tracks to be included
on the album (apparently entitled Reverberation) were: Cotton Fields (45
version, DuoPhonic)/Loop De Loop+/All I Wanna Do*/Got To Know The
Woman (mono mix)/When Girls Get Together (track only)Break Away/San
Miguel+/Celebrate The News/Deirdre*/The Lord's Prayer (stereo remix of
1963 version - actually electronically reprocessed)/Forever*. This is the order
on the master. The tracks noted * were used on Sunflower while those
noted + were pulled to the "2nd Warner Brothers album" reel.
[Artisan Sounds ?]

July
?? - Sunflower session: It's About Time (before the 8th)
?? - "Big Gus Club", Los Angeles CA [6]
7 - Sunflower session: Cool, Cool Water
8 - Sunflower session: Cool, Cool Water (mixdown)
21 - session: [no title] [7]
21 - Sunflower session: mastering & copying [Artisan Sounds]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on June 07, 2020, 09:00:59 AM
Whoever posted that on the Steve Hoffman forums just copied that off bellagio10452.com.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 10:59:51 AM
Whoever posted that on the Steve Hoffman forums just copied that off bellagio10452.com.
Oh? My bad I wasn’t looking that deeply, I was just trying to figure out what sessions they might include on the set, and that was the most comprehensive list that I found.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Curt Lambert on June 07, 2020, 12:17:57 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 07, 2020, 02:09:08 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 02:23:37 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?
2 different record labels.
There was actually 3 different versions of sunflower.
The first one was assembled in February 1970 for Warner brothers, and had the title add some music with this track list:
Susie Cincinnati
Good Time
Our Sweet Love
Tears In The Morning
When Girls Get Together
Slip On Through
Add Some Music To Your Day
Take A Load Off Your Feet
This Whole World
I Just Got My Pay
At My Window
Fallin' In Love
They also owed one last album to capital, so they scraped together some outtakes, and rarities, and made an album called reverberation in June, with this track list:
1.   "Cottonfields" (single version)   
2.   "Loop de Loop"   
3.   "All I Wanna Do"   
4.   "Got to Know the Woman" (mono mix)   
5.   "When Girls Get Together" (instrumental)   
6.   "Break Away"   
7.   "San Miguel"   
8.   "Celebrate the News"   
9.   "Deirdre"   
10.   "The Lord's Prayer" (stereo remix)   
11.   "Forever”
Both albums were rejected by their respective labels, capital released live in London instead, and they had to release an album of all new material, seeing as Break away and celebrate the news has been released at capital the previous year, so capital owned those copyrights.
So, they basically combined both add some music and reverberation, scrapped several tracks, recorded It’s about Time and a new version of Cool Cool Water, turned it in to Warner Bros., and boom. That’s how we got the album we know today


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on June 07, 2020, 06:39:36 PM
I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on June 07, 2020, 07:28:35 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on June 07, 2020, 07:32:09 PM
I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on June 08, 2020, 08:35:25 AM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.

I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).

Thanks c-man. Didn’t realize that Cotton Fields was a Capitol single; I assumed Break Away was the last Capitol single and Cotton Fields was the first Reprise single.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 08, 2020, 10:32:46 AM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.

I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).

Thanks c-man. Didn’t realize that Cotton Fields was a Capitol single; I assumed Break Away was the last Capitol single and Cotton Fields was the first Reprise single.
Add Some Music was the first WB single, then Slip On Through


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 08, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 08, 2020, 03:24:47 PM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set

I think that was what was talked about before the lockdown, but good to have a bit more evidence/info. Thanks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 09, 2020, 08:32:37 AM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set
Any more info? Possible release date, possible marketing name, etc.?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 09, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
I know no one asked, but here’s my prediction:
Disc One: remastered sunflower + bonus tracks from the Sunflower sessions
Disk 2: instrumentals, a cappellas, and studio banter from the sunflower sessions.
Disk 3: remastered Surfs’ Up + bonus tracks from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 4: instrumentals, a cappella’s, and studio banter from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 5: live recordings from 1969-1971.
Then, hopefully, this December, we get a copyright dump with anything that’s left.
Then in December 2021, we get another copy right dump with super early So Tough Sessions, then sometime in 2022, we can get a new box set  chronicling the Blondie and Ricky years.
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Willy Wilson on June 09, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
I know no one asked, but here’s my prediction:
Disc One: remastered sunflower + bonus tracks from the Sunflower sessions
Disk 2: instrumentals, a cappellas, and studio banter from the sunflower sessions.
Disk 3: remastered Surfs’ Up + bonus tracks from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 4: instrumentals, a cappella’s, and studio banter from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 5: live recordings from 1969-1971.

This is just what I want...  :smokin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 01:39:15 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 16, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.

A couple of years ago you wrote the post below. Are we in the ballpark?

Although Townshend and McCartney have some incredible works that still remain long unreleased, you really couldn't say they trump the contemporary released product. The sheer QUALITY of BB's material, and we're talking songs from demo to master -- all the layers -- to my knowledge (and I've done deep dives through more than a few band vaults) is unprecedented. No other band has what they have. You look at major AOR artists -- Elton, The Band, The Eagles -- there's NOTHING there. In some cases they were stretching just to get enough material to fill an LP. TONS of filler.

Personally, if I owned these masters, I would do a 15-25 disc DUMP of all of this unreleased (1968-1978) material. Redefine the market like the BOOTLEG SERIES did in '91. There wouldn't be a single music rag, blog, or website that wouldn't automatically give it ANTHOLOGY-like press. You wouldn't have to read about BB's music in expensive fan publications. Real press would EAT IT UP. Film and TV placements would follow, moving the narrative past the tents, bedroom years, and shitt ily written Christmas tour articles. With so little effort, EVERYTHING could change.

EVERYTHING.
And all because of outtakes.

PR TAGLINE: "WHAT IF THERE WAS ANOTHER BEATLES? Guess what -- There WAS."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 02:18:51 PM
You are in the ballpark.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 16, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
Whoa....Better start saving!  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 02:31:26 PM
Nowhere near that big -- but for the period covered, breathtaking.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 16, 2020, 05:09:08 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.

WHOAH (Joey Lawrence voice). STOKED.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: blackrunninghorse on June 16, 2020, 05:48:02 PM
I remember you saying Howie a couple of years ago that there are still some great unreleased tracks in the vaults, is that true still?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Every LP could and SHOULD be a box set.
The Brother vault is an embarrassment of riches.

Especially during the eras where ALL SIX were composing/producing.
It's ridiculous. Absolute Vitamin C.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on June 16, 2020, 06:29:36 PM
Every LP could and SHOULD be a box set.
The Brother vault is an embarrassment of riches.

Especially during the eras where ALL SIX were composing/producing.
It's ridiculous. Absolute Vitamin C.

What is the timeline for this box set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on June 16, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
Now I’m even more excited


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 17, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.
I want 5 disks of every single version of Shortenin' Bread


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2020, 11:08:59 AM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.
I want 5 disks of every single version of Shortenin' Bread

YESSS.

Thanks for the update Howie, "breathtaking" is quite the endorsement and I'm absolutely stoked for this. Can't wait for the announcement to come!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on June 17, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 17, 2020, 11:35:21 AM
If the box is set for an August release to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the original SunFlower, then we should be hearing an announcement here within the next couple weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on June 17, 2020, 11:49:53 AM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

Wow, that is cool to hear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 17, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.


How the hell did I miss that? Always wanted to hear Brian's version of Country with such super musicians as James Burton, Glen Hardin etc.


EDIT: Very nice. Vail certainly is not the best singer in the world, but still a good enough job. And I love that pedal steel intro. Want to hear more!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
Holy sh*t!  Fred doesn’t sound too bad, I always expected way worse if I ever got to hear any of his stuff!  Thanks for posting that link!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
Lord, I remember communicating with Fred way back in my Friends of The Beach Boys days.  He talked about the album way back then, in the spring of ‘77! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SaltyMarshmallow on June 17, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Here's a post about it from last November: https://www.facebook.com/russ.smith.739/posts/10218995856679337

Sounds like the plan was to raise enough funds to complete that track with new overdubs, potentially for the archive release, and then do additional work on the other songs with Fred's vocals. That'd presumably be a springboard to put the whole collection of instrumental tracks out. I wish we'd picked up on this sooner, no idea if they managed to reach the goal!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2020, 02:06:31 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

This is fantastic! The pedal steel guitar is top notch, I hope this gets an official release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RONDEMON on June 17, 2020, 03:09:40 PM
If Howie is excited, I'm extra excited. Thanks for chiming in, H. This is my favorite era of the band song-wise and production-wise. A really interesting and short-lived period of consistently good work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on June 17, 2020, 04:02:57 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

Not a country fan but that was pretty cool to hear.

By the way, it finally hit me who Fred reminds me off...the late Richard Harrison aka the Old Man from Pawn Stars.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
Fred always reminded me of Ned Beatty


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 17, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
can't believe I missed Fred's video from last Dec! so cool to finally hear something from the mythical Brian Wilson "country album"

definitely Buddy Emmons playing steel on this track. Jay Dee Maness is a steel legend too, also on the sessions.
sure hope all the songs get to see the light of day!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 18, 2020, 02:06:09 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on June 18, 2020, 02:30:15 AM
Imagine Brian Wilson taking the country music market by storm in 1970, haha!

This sounds indeed pretty good. Nothing earth-shattering but well done and the lead vocals are much better than expected. Reminds me of Spring in a way!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on June 18, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!

Also, I've heard from a reputable source that as of a couple days ago, the boxset has unfortunately been given yet another delay. I'd been hoping it'd be coming out in August in celebration of Sunflower's 50th, but if I had to guess, an October-November release date for the holiday season seems more likely. I know Howie can only tell us so much, but I would love to know what's been causing so much difficulty in the production, promotion, and ultimate release of this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 18, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!



Whoa?! Really? Great! And what a nice gesture from Brian to Fred Vail, to record an album for him with such top notch musicians