The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Tricycle Rider on November 17, 2019, 01:18:55 AM



Title: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tricycle Rider on November 17, 2019, 01:18:55 AM
From tingly @SHF:

Al Jardine said today that there is a great box set that they're working on. Its working title is Feel Flows. Contents are Sunflower, Surfs Up, and an unreleased live recording of which he has no memory doing. He didn't say what concert, physical/download, if it's certain for release, possible release date, whether remastered, if there are outtakes,...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 17, 2019, 03:27:14 AM

Ah, beautiful! You can always count on Al Jardine  ;D



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 17, 2019, 08:09:21 AM
That would be fantastic!
I guess the concert would be from just before Blondie and Ricky joined, but maybe they were already part of the backing group. Maybe Carnegie Hall from September '71 if that one was recorded?
I guess if there will be a boxset for "Holland" in the future (and giving it's relative high profile outside of Beach Boys fandom, I think it would be a possibility) they will include the partly bootlegged show that features "Long promised road" from the "Endless harmony" soundtrack.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 17, 2019, 11:34:08 AM
Oh lord  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 17, 2019, 12:28:15 PM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 17, 2019, 12:57:46 PM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tpesky on November 17, 2019, 03:28:24 PM
Al Jardine having memory recall issues ?! I’m shocked  ;D  Seriously though great news. I’d think Al would remember the Carnegie Hall concert.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 17, 2019, 04:04:50 PM
Al Jardine having memory recall issues ?! I’m shocked  ;D  Seriously though great news. I’d think Al would remember the Carnegie Hall concert.

Yeah...especially considering there were several! ('71, '72, '73)….


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 17, 2019, 05:44:08 PM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on November 17, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 18, 2019, 04:41:46 AM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...
I'm excited for pretty much anything from Brian from the 1971-74 period. I wonder if any demos or other recordings will be unearthed?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 18, 2019, 05:36:44 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 05:50:42 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.


I'm not sure but I think "I've got a friend" was part of a later time frame (the Blondie & Ricky era) which "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" don't cover. But this is just guessing on my part, I of course don't know what show will be on the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on November 18, 2019, 07:05:19 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 10:08:41 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 18, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)

Dang it. Legendary song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on November 18, 2019, 11:57:36 AM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


I've been eagerly waiting to hear the backing tracks of This Whole World, All I Wanna Do and At My Window for so long now. If it's like the Wild Honey boxes this should be amazing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 18, 2019, 11:58:15 AM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 18, 2019, 12:34:48 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on November 18, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)

How is the SMiLE online sessionography coming? Has it been shelved indefinitely. That would be ironic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 18, 2019, 01:30:32 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.
Alan Boyd said in the Q&A session happened earlier this year:

Quote
Unfortunately, all we have on I'VE GOT A FRIEND is a very basic backing track, no vocals. And nothing on the song live, sorry to say.

so I'd say there's little chance we would get it, sadly.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=26378.0)



The song was played at a show that was broadcasted on radio:

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/5-10-72.html


So maybe it's still sitting in their archives.
Honestly, I think I'd want what might well be the only "professionally" recorded live version of "Hold On Dear Brother" above anything else.

Sorry to disappoint, but "Hold On Dear Brother" was not performed at the Radio Luxembourg concert, despite reports to the contrary. It and "He Come Down" were played straight from the LP during the intermission/interview part of the show, so that's how they ended up in the broadcast. AFAIK, "Brother" was only played live one time, and that was in 2014 for the "Brian Wilson and Friends" show in Vegas, with guest star Nate Ruess. THAT one was professionally recorded!  :)


Did you hear a version of the broadcast? What was the quality like?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 18, 2019, 04:26:29 PM
Not good.

https://rtlgreat208.wordpress.com/



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on November 19, 2019, 12:45:30 AM
It's happening people!!!  ;D

We're coming into the era of these releases I've been waiting for, my favorite beach boys era

This!!


I've been eagerly waiting to hear the backing tracks of This Whole World, All I Wanna Do and At My Window for so long now. If it's like the Wild Honey boxes this should be amazing.

Yes, hearing those three would be awesome! I imagine in This Whole World there must be some amazing musical details buried beneath all those thick layers of backing vocals.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on November 19, 2019, 10:17:14 AM
speaking of at my window, and al jardine for that matter

I'd like to hear early tracking for that song when it was still a form of raspberries/strawberries cover of the Kingston trio song which Al wanted to do

(perhaps a little like how riot in cellblock #9 became student demonstration time on their next LP)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 19, 2019, 10:53:21 AM
speaking of at my window, and al jardine for that matter

I'd like to hear early tracking for that song when it was still a form of raspberries/strawberries cover of the Kingston trio song which Al wanted to do

(perhaps a little like how riot in cellblock #9 became student demonstration time on their next LP)

That does exist--although it's not really "different" as such from "Window".  As far as I recall, they never did vox for Raspberries.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on November 19, 2019, 07:07:11 PM
AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 20, 2019, 02:55:53 AM
So when are we expecting the official news about this box set? Sometime next month?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on November 20, 2019, 08:40:12 AM
"AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs."

officially, of course, they'd have to be, songwriting credits couldn't support otherwise.  the songname Raspberries & Strawberries first came up with how At My Window recording began


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 09:57:12 AM
"AMW & KT's "Raspberries" = 2 different songs."

officially, of course, they'd have to be, songwriting credits couldn't support otherwise.  the songname Raspberries & Strawberries first came up with how At My Window recording began


I think she meant she couldn’t hear the resemblance between the two songs


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 11:10:27 AM
Think it’s kind of obvious now, but does this officially confirm there won’t be a copyright extension release this year?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 20, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Think it’s kind of obvious now, but does this officially confirm there won’t be a copyright extension release this year?

But wouldn't they lose the copyright on tracks like I'm Going Your Way if they fail to release them by 01/01/2020?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 20, 2019, 12:48:31 PM
That’s what I was getting at. Not a lot of time to put it out though


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 20, 2019, 01:23:59 PM
For any digital releases, they can announce and release the thing on December 31 if they want.

Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.

You get the idea.

If there is indeed a physical component to any upcoming set, I agree it's getting late for an announcement for a physical release before the end of 2019.

The physical 2-CD "Party" outtake set was announced October 23, 2015 for a November 20, 2015 release.

The physical 2-CD "Sunshine Tomorrow" set was announced May 23, 2017 for a June 20, 2017 release.

So a physical product by the end of December could still be announced based on those timelines. They could also do a staggered release (similar to home releases of films) where they put out a digital release of the set before the end of December with a physical set following a month or two later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 21, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 21, 2019, 08:54:00 AM
Good points!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 22, 2019, 11:42:29 AM
This will be amazing,  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on November 22, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
Definitely have a love-hate relationship with digital music, but it would be cool to listen to the streaming version before Christmas. I doubt there will be a hard copy if Friends and 20/20 didn't get one, even if there is more "critical acclaim" for the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Seems they only did it with Wild Honey because of the new stereo mix really.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on November 22, 2019, 05:36:13 PM
Definitely have a love-hate relationship with digital music, but it would be cool to listen to the streaming version before Christmas. I doubt there will be a hard copy if Friends and 20/20 didn't get one, even if there is more "critical acclaim" for the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Seems they only did it with Wild Honey because of the new stereo mix really.
If Al Jardine said there would be a box set named Feel Flows, then I think there's a fair chance real physical box set is coming...

Plus, I like to think Sunflower/Surf's Up era would be given physical treatment, especially if they could justify 2 CD release for Party! sessions back in 2015.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't mind it at all as long as the release, be it physical or just digital, would happen and we'd get to hear the music, though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 22, 2019, 05:54:24 PM
Need to see tracklist. Bring it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on November 23, 2019, 10:26:40 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on November 23, 2019, 10:30:42 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.
Feel Flows: Torture Edition!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 23, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
I thought it was going to be an entire box set of Feel Flows sessions.
Bring it on!
My first assumption that was that it would be a version of Feel Flows with a four-hour flute solo, spanning five CDs.
Feel Flows: Torture Edition!
Feel Flows: The Grateful Dead version!  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2019, 11:29:21 AM
Don't give me any ideas to do a "chopped and screwed" mix of Feel Flows :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on November 23, 2019, 02:13:09 PM
I am hoping we get a longer version of WIBNTLA.  I would like to hear more of the outro.  So spontaneous and different from their norm.  And while I'm wishing, a mix where the guitar solo is a click higher.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
I agree. I absolutely love that outro


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 24, 2019, 09:53:21 AM
I suppose the 4th Quarter Christmas season release having to come out ASAP doesn't need apply because they have a rough idea of how many units will ship to the die-hard fans.  The greatest hits crowd probably doesn't even know much about the 1969-71 period anyway.  That being said with Sunflower (making Rolling Stone's Top 500 albums of all-time) and Surf's Up considered classics by music fans in the know, you think there would be some promo for the set via interviews and reviews.  I think they should do a physical box (and maybe companion smaller set like Smile Sessions) and really hype it up.  It would be so great for the band's legacy especially if the masses who are unfamiliar discover this era.  And if that's the case here's my prediction:

- We will get a digital only release in December with 1969 live material (if any) and some 1969 studio sessions (APPETIZER)
- There will be a glorious Feel Flows box next year with a decent amount of press coverage and build-up (MAIN COURSE)
- There will be a 1970 December digital live release (DESSERT)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 24, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Don't give me any ideas to do a "chopped and screwed" mix of Feel Flows :lol
Bring it!  >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 25, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
I want it digital, it’s the easiest way for me to listen to it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 25, 2019, 03:57:46 PM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

However, if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet, I will likely buy it in that format. And yes, I know vinyls aren't everyone's personal preference, but it's just the way I'd like it packaged.

Wish list:

- Vocals only of WIBNTLA backing vocals
- A decent sounding version of the backing vocals for Til I Die
- Anything that has to do with 'This Whole World'
- Any demos for any songs from this era
- Brian's Til I Die piano demo
- The list goes on and on

Cannot wait for any official word about this release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on November 25, 2019, 04:23:01 PM

Wish list:

- Anything that has to do with 'This Whole World'


Yeah, I'm pretty stoked for the version of This Whole World with the alt tag that was featured very briefly in that airlines commercial they did... that seems like a real lost gem.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on November 26, 2019, 12:22:37 AM
Cola ad version of Cool Cool Water?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on November 26, 2019, 06:05:52 AM
Cola ad version of Cool Cool Water?

Think that was more 1967.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 26, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
Agree that it'd be great to include the airline TV commercial featuring This Whole World...

Lord, I remember seeing that on television and freaking out... If I recall correctly, Bruce was the featured spokesperson...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 26, 2019, 08:35:21 AM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

...if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet...



I agree on the booklet, but it's a hard no on the vinyl. The vinyl is why the Smile Sessions boxset is way more expensive. It's a needless extravagance that should be a separate release. At the very least there should be a cheaper version without any vinyl.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 09:25:55 AM
Digital/Streaming is just fine with me.

...if the boxset is physical and it comes with some vinyls and a nice booklet...



I agree on the booklet, but it's a hard no on the vinyl. The vinyl is why the Smile Sessions boxset is way more expensive. It's a needless extravagance that should be a separate release. At the very least there should be a cheaper version without any vinyl.

As I said I know that it's not everyone's preference...just something I would like. As for the Smile Sessions - that's kind of a boxset that had to come with a vinyl. I completely see why Surf's Up and Sunflower would be redundant to some fans (especially fans who have owned several of the vinyl releases over the years), but Smile at that point had no official release - it was kinda like them saying "finally, here is what you possibly would've gotten in 1967", so a boxset including vinyls made perfect sense to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 26, 2019, 09:43:23 AM
Add me to the list of folks who don't need vinyl added to a large boxed set that already has the same content on CD. I'm all for releasing stuff on vinyl for the people who want it, but there's no reason that can't be accomplished as a separate release. That was true of "Smile" as well. I would have gladly paid $30 less to skip the vinyl in that set. Didn't get also release the vinyl separately?

There have been archival releases like the McCartney sets where there are like 10 different SKUs with all the different variations. Single CD, Double CD, single vinyl, double vinyl, huge boxed set, deluxe set, etc. I know a BB set, if we even got a physical component at all, wouldn't see that sort of thing happen. But if Capitol/UMe wants to sell some BB boxed sets, they're better served not bloating the set out with extraneous, repetitive content like vinyl that repeats what's on the CDs.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 26, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
Add me to the list of folks who don't need vinyl added to a large boxed set that already has the same content on CD. I'm all for releasing stuff on vinyl for the people who want it, but there's no reason that can't be accomplished as a separate release. That was true of "Smile" as well. I would have gladly paid $30 less to skip the vinyl in that set. Didn't get also release the vinyl separately?

There have been archival releases like the McCartney sets where there are like 10 different SKUs with all the different variations. Single CD, Double CD, single vinyl, double vinyl, huge boxed set, deluxe set, etc. I know a BB set, if we even got a physical component at all, wouldn't see that sort of thing happen. But if Capitol/UMe wants to sell some BB boxed sets, they're better served not bloating the set out with extraneous, repetitive content like vinyl that repeats what's on the CDs.



Yeah, have a separate 3/4 LP release for the people who really like having stuff on vinyl. Make it like the Beatles' 50th sets and have Sunflower and Surf's Up (remixed if that's what they're going to do) and then devote the other records to finished tracks from the era which weren't included (IJGMP, 4th of July, WIBNTLA, I'm Goin Your Way).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 10:02:39 AM
Well I enjoy having the vinyl included. Should've made my disclaimer longer in my original post - every time I mention the word vinyl here I get a diatribe back about it. Again I say, it's just my preference and to me it's not "bloat" and it's not "repetitive".

As for the vinyl release of SMiLE, it did get a separate release as well apart from the boxset. The smaller CD set also came with a button that the large boxset didn't come with. I mean, we could also complain about the 3-dimensional boxset artwork because that was completely pointless and added a lot of cost to the set. But I won't because that attention to detail made it a very special product. Likewise, the inclusion of the vinyl made it more of a special product too. In the 40 years that the totality of Smile was ignored by the band (in any official capacity - and I say total because we never got a set that accumulated all the sessions and songs together) I don't think an added $30 to the cost of a boxset that released all of this in amazing quality is worth whining about.

It's funny that every time a set is released we are told to "go buy it because it helps support future projects"....but apparently it was a burden that they added some value to the Smile set with vinyls (that only added profit to the project and thus helped support future projects). Some here get lambasted for streaming these sets while others complain that we can't spend too much money to support these projects due to supposed bloat and repetitiveness.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 26, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
Take a poll of how many people around you buy new CD's. Most stores who did carry them won't even touch them now. I'm just putting that out there.

It's disheartening to me to see or hear local musicians making a new album spending thousands to get CD's pressed with artwork, inserts, etc...when most people simply do not tote around CD's when they're in listening mode during their daily lives. The preferred delivery of music changed dramatically, for better or worse, yet the CD is still being discussed. I'm just going by the dozens of musicians I'm in contact with on a weekly basis. Most of them stream or pay subscription services for mobile or instant listening, and those who make listening an experience at home choose vinyl and their turntable of choice.

Don't hate the players, hate the game...if people have an issue with streaming and subscription listening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 26, 2019, 11:21:54 AM
Instantly available streaming is a double edged sword; on one hand it's great to get everything immediately, but the bad part is that there is no actual disc and case to hold and no booklet to go through. I "cut my teeth" buying cd's at the CD store at the local mall, and consequently learning to love  many bands and styles of music. It hurt my heart to see the CD store close down for good, along with various other CD stores. I'm firmly stuck on the CD format of music, and probably always will be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on November 26, 2019, 11:55:01 AM
I neither have the appropriate technology nor the trust that a corporate entity will keep the music available (or affordable) in the long term for me to abide with streaming. I go with just vinyl and digital downloads (lossless for my favorites). CDs are an exceedingly rare purchase nowadays: only if it's a cherished boxset or if there's no other way to obtain the music. With the CDs I just end up ripping them losslessly and never playing the discs; the artwork is too small, although I will revisit a nicely assembled physical book(let) every now and then...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 26, 2019, 12:13:18 PM
Instantly available streaming is a double edged sword; on one hand it's great to get everything immediately, but the bad part is that there is no actual disc and case to hold and no booklet to go through. I "cut my teeth" buying cd's at the CD store at the local mall, and consequently learning to love  many bands and styles of music. It hurt my heart to see the CD store close down for good, along with various other CD stores. I'm firmly stuck on the CD format of music, and probably always will be.

I had the same reaction when the music world shifted from vinyl LPs to CDs! I cut MY teeth buying 12" vinyl at the local mall, and shed a tear when it became quite clear that the industry was "downsizing" it's album art presentation standard to fit the jewel case.  :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 26, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
Regarding the "bloat" adding vinyl to a CD boxed set, it's simply a case of adding needless *cost* to a set where all of the components are also available separately.

I guarantee you there are hundreds if not a few thousand vinyl copies of "Smile" just sitting there in that big 2011 "Smile Sessions" boxed set going unused.

Purchases of such boxed sets theoretically help fund future projects (how much this happens in actuality I tend to wonder), but the more expensive the set is, the harder it is for some people to buy. Again, McCartney doesn't bloat his "Archive" sets with vinyl duplicates of the stuff already on the CDs.

Certain bundles make sense, especially when there is little to no added cost. For instance, some vinyl releases (or CDs for that matter) come with a digital download code.

It's barely worth debating though, I admit. Big CD boxed sets are pretty rare these days.

I think BRI could still do some amazing things with nice boxed sets and physical *and* digital archival releases. But imagine how much *more* money they would have made doing this stuff 10-15-20 years ago when physical sales were still a thing.

But the deal with a Beach Boys boxed set is that they probably would need to make a boxed set pretty lavish to entice sales. But I don't think it would need to be unneeded vinyl. A nice book with photos, etc. That sort of stuff.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 26, 2019, 02:43:54 PM
I didn't shed a tear when LPs were replaced by CDs in the late 80's.  While I missed my album covers, I was fed up with dealing with vinyl, not to mention I couldn't play my records in my car so it was good riddance from me.  If I want better resolution audio than CDs I'll go for high res digital audio.  My Smile Sessions vinyl sits in it's box.  I should probably just give it to my brother.  He's on a vinyl kick these days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 26, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
Regarding the "bloat" adding vinyl to a CD boxed set, it's simply a case of adding needless *cost* to a set where all of the components are also available separately.

I guarantee you there are hundreds if not a few thousand vinyl copies of "Smile" just sitting there in that big 2011 "Smile Sessions" boxed set going unused.

And I guarantee there are hundreds if not a few thousand copies of booklets from these boxsets that no one opens that just sit around. I legit have opened the Made In California book probably twice ever since I got it. And the second time I opened it I think was to retrieve a CD. Point being, there will always be something that certain people don't want in a boxset that we could technically buy piecemeal (hell, I could've done without the entire Good Vibrations sessions CD on the Smile Set).....or we could support a project (without whining about it) that comes with a lot of goodies all in one set.

And again I'll say, I'm speaking about the SMiLE set where I think it was a really good idea to include the vinyl - just because of the historical significance of probably the most famous unreleased album of all time finally getting a release...and what that vinyl release could have looked like in 1967. Having a boxset for Sunflower/Surf's Up with vinyls probably isn't the best idea, and I fully admit that, but it's something that I personally would like. In the future I'll specify that I'd want two boxsets, one for vinyl fans and one for not, only so we don't have to debate this every time a new boxset is mentioned.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 26, 2019, 06:23:39 PM
I have no issue with the vinyl in and of itself. What irritates me is when it adds to the cost...I wasn't able to afford the Smile Sessions set (not the full one, anyway) for example.


Edit

My kid told me a little bit ago that she wants a turntable for Christmas and I sh*t you not wants to start collecting vinyls. I didn’t mention this thread or anything, I swear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 27, 2019, 03:47:25 AM
To be honest, I haven't been able to afford even many of the digital releases in recent years. So I completely hear ya there. The Smile Sessions on iTunes actually came out one day before the physical set came out - and it was quite a bit cheaper than the physical set iirc. So there were ways to get the 5 CD's worth of music without needing to pay the extra cost for the vinyls, book, poster, etc. And I admit that iTunes quality isn't FLAC quality, but to my ears through my studio headphones or speaker setup I don't hear a major difference (not enough of a difference to matter).

Again I'll say, there was a lot about the boxset that was over-the-top - heck, there were some sets that came with lights on the inside of the 3D Smile shop! But it kinda had to be over-the-top given the rare nature of this album (being one of the most famous unreleased albums in history). I totally forgot yesterday, but not only did it come with the LPs but it came with the 45s with their respective artwork on the sleeves - which I have rarely ever listened to, but I love to have in my collection. In one package we got everything a person would've gotten (obviously a different track listing and mix) in 1967 had this album come out then...which, I think, is exactly what Mark Linett, Alan Boyd were partly trying to achieve with this set. So yeah, unfortunately it cost more, but it also made it one of the most unique boxsets to ever be released (and all the CD contents were available to purchase digitally without all the added flair).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 28, 2019, 12:24:18 AM
The recorded music industry obviously has gone through massive changes over the past 20 years.  The only real market left for physical releases is deluxe packages for super-fans/collectors.  Do places like Target and Barnes & Noble even sell CDs anymore?  I'm not even sure the last time I bought a CD... maybe 2012, 2013.  Vinyl has made a comeback, but it's a niche thing, also aimed at super-fans/collectors.  No one is going into to Target and buying Sgt Pepper on vinyl because they want to listen to the songs.  They've already heard the songs.  They already have the songs on the iphone.  The vinyl package is simply a vanity product-- a decoration to look cool in the owner's home. 

Of course, I bought the Smile box in 2011.  How could I not?  It was the dream release of every hardcore BB/BW fan for decades. But I've never played any of the vinyl though it certainly does look cool.  I did read the book, cover to cover.  I ripped the CDs once to my iTunes and returned them to the box never to be taken out again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 28, 2019, 04:59:18 AM
Pretty much all of my vinyls are stored in a closet where no one sees 'em. I actually bought Ziggy Stardust from Target a year ago (and I listen to it from time to time) and it sits on a shelf mixed in with a lot of other vinyls, not being used as a vanity product.

I think those who purchase modern vinyls have various reasons for getting them - vanity is definitely one of them for some, but others have different reasons - personally I like the experience of listening to a vinyl. I find that I actually sit and listen to the music more closely: the music is my #1 priority at that time (because firstly I know that the vinyl will wear out one day and that every listen is a precious one, and two I have to physically interact with the record by flipping it over). And while this sounds completely stupid, it can be compared to watching a movie in a movie theater vs watching the same exact movie on an 85" flatscreen in 4K with Dolby Surround in your home - it's both technically the same exact movie that you're viewing on giant screens, but they are different experiences. Some prefer one or the other. And that's the way it is for me with vinyl vs listening with my iPhone. I do both, and do the latter much more. But when I'm chilling out and really focussing on music I prefer the vinyl. Just a personal preference.

Also, there are some vintage records that aren't available digitally that are available on vinyl - albeit none that you would buy in Target, but nonetheless, if I own a rare classical music album on vinyl (and quite a few vintage BB records that sound better than their digital copies), I might as well buy some other modern pressed albums to accompany it (mostly because, again, I like the experience).

Everyone is different and everyone has their own weird ways of consuming entertainment. Some people are completely happy displaying pictures in digital frames while others prefer print, even though they are virtually the same thing. Vanity is definitely a reason for some (and I admit I have displayed my SMiLE record before for vanity sake), but it's not the only reason.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 28, 2019, 11:14:37 PM
I know i'm showing my age, but I still role my eyes at people talking about "vinyls". I love records, always will; I grew up with them, it was always the ultimate, to sit down with that package, and devote the next 30 to 50 minutes with that album. I was one of the last to start buying cd's, and now nobody wants them, but I think cd's can be a nice listening experience. For me, streaming is when I just want to have some music on in the background while I am online, or doing stuff around the house. In the car, I don't really care about sound quality, because the music is competing with the sound of the road, the loud trucks and cars going by me.
These days, if the album is important enough to me, I will buy the vinyl - it costs a little more, but it's worth it. Less important stuff I will buy on cd. I bought the vinyl Smile Sessions because that was how I had always envisioned it - the album that was supposed to come out in 1967.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on November 29, 2019, 01:19:07 AM
Can people stop saying "Vinyls"...it's upsetting  :-\

"Records"...that's the word you want  ;D

or if you must.."My Vinyl"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TheLazenby on November 29, 2019, 10:07:21 AM
The recorded music industry obviously has gone through massive changes over the past 20 years.  The only real market left for physical releases is deluxe packages for super-fans/collectors.  Do places like Target and Barnes & Noble even sell CDs anymore?  I'm not even sure the last time I bought a CD... maybe 2012, 2013.  Vinyl has made a comeback, but it's a niche thing, also aimed at super-fans/collectors.  No one is going into to Target and buying Sgt Pepper on vinyl because they want to listen to the songs.  They've already heard the songs.  They already have the songs on the iphone.  The vinyl package is simply a vanity product-- a decoration to look cool in the owner's home. 

Of course, I bought the Smile box in 2011.  How could I not?  It was the dream release of every hardcore BB/BW fan for decades. But I've never played any of the vinyl though it certainly does look cool.  I did read the book, cover to cover.  I ripped the CDs once to my iTunes and returned them to the box never to be taken out again.

I was just at a Barnes and Noble that sold CD's, in fact.  Target, on the other hand, has very few.

Other places like Best Buy carry vinyl exclusively.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 29, 2019, 10:19:27 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 29, 2019, 04:39:47 PM
I thought Best Buy quit selling CDs period earlier this year, like around June


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 29, 2019, 09:58:12 PM
I thought Best Buy quit selling CDs period earlier this year, like around June
I think it was a little longer than that. I thought they quit selling cd's about a year or two ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 30, 2019, 08:40:44 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 30, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.

Cool kid!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 30, 2019, 08:31:39 PM
Can people stop saying "Vinyls"...it's upsetting  :-\

"Records"...that's the word you want  ;D

or if you must.."My Vinyl"
Agreed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 01, 2019, 02:39:43 AM
Vinyls is technically accurate - add the "s" to it = vinyls. Easy. :police:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 01, 2019, 04:21:24 AM
I wonder if this year's copyright set covering unreleased stuff from 1969 is to be released next Friday, just like last year....



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on December 01, 2019, 10:14:47 AM
Vinyls is technically accurate - add the "s" to it = vinyls. Easy. :police:

Maybe.....if this petition worked - https://thevinylfactory.com/news/petition-the-plural-of-vinyl-to-vinyls/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 01, 2019, 10:51:44 AM
Quote
This will also serve the essential purpose of annoying people who would rather ridicule a complete stranger than say something encouraging to a fellow “vinyls” collector, especially those who may be just getting started in the hobby.

Sad that happens. I'm totally cool with saying vinyl or records, but I legitimately had no idea the plural for vinyl didn't include an "s". So apologies to those in this thread whose reaction was an eye-roll for that. In the future, perhaps if you encounter this faux pas again, explain why instead of not explaining - I had no idea if you guys were being serious about the word "vinyls" or why it was even an issue.

I know i'm showing my age, but I still role my eyes at people talking about "vinyls".

As long as we're pointing out mistakes, you don't "role" eyes but rather "roll".

Anywho, glad this was pointed out to me and I won't be making the mistake again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM
Mad pumped for this.

Really hope it has a clean version of I've Got A Friend amongst the live stuff.

That doesn't exist. Only the studio instrumental track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on December 02, 2019, 11:49:08 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 02, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
Me too :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on December 03, 2019, 08:01:36 AM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.

You have no idea how often my wife and I say this exact thing.

It's a lot.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 03, 2019, 08:09:34 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ReggieDunbar on December 03, 2019, 08:24:43 AM
You’re right.  My kid bought Sunshine Tomorrow with her own money right around the time they made the announcement.

What? I provide my kids with their basic needs. Does she have to buy her own food too?!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 03, 2019, 09:49:05 AM
:lol

Nah, she used her Christmas money...was the very first CD she bought herself.

It's funny...I'm 41 and most of the music I have these days is in digital form; my 12 year old is the one who wants to collect cds and vinyls*.



* Sorry....couldn't resist


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 03, 2019, 01:19:44 PM
The Best Buy near me doesn't sell music, period. It's all technology stuff. I very much miss the Barnes and Noble book and CD store near me.
I miss Borders.
Actually, the place I was referring to in my post you quoted was indeed Borders. Oops.  :lol Yes, I miss it greatly...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 03, 2019, 01:26:11 PM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.

Suncoast video!! Oh God, I haven't thought about that in years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 03, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.

Sorry to keep it going off-topic but I remember all those stores you mentioned as well including Sound Warehouse (or Sound Whorehouse as my friend called it).  Bill Gates said it many years ago - that all physical media would be gone in the near future.  I'm sure he never saw the resurgence of vinyl coming, and ironically that's something I have zero interest in.  Yes, I love my album covers but that's it.  I found the prices at Borders to be reasonable.  I always shopped there over Barnes and Noble.  Of course Tower Records was my favorite.  I would regularly go to three in the Chicago area (Lincoln Park, Schaumburg and Bloomingdale for you locals).  You are correct - all physical media will be sold less and less in big box stores and sadly many big box stores and malls will be gone.  I don't really buy any physical media anymore unless it's a must-have which is rare.  I don't mind going to our local Half Price Books for books and movies or simply just going to the library.  I take out a movie or two, watch them, and I'm done.  Why would I want to own most of them?  Anyway I hope to see a physical Feel Flows box based on what we're hearing it could be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 03, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
Tower, Musicland, Wherehouse, Record Factory, Camelot...  so many memories of those stores back in the day.
I was thrilled when Wherehouse started selling used CDs... Circa 1994-95, I remember finding an orphaned Disc 2 (with the Smile tracks) from the 1993 box set for $4.99.  Incredible deal at a time when I was broke student and the $70 box was outside my budget.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on December 04, 2019, 03:42:13 AM
I live in the big city of Dallas, Tx, so while we have lost many large stores such as Tower Records, Virgin Records, Blockbuster, etc, we still have some indie record and video stores around. Movie Trader Company and Barnes and Nobles still exist as well. I collect DVDs and Cds of only my favorite movies and albums.  Same with books. I think in my post apocalyptic mind, it will be good to have physical copies of these things. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on December 04, 2019, 10:02:50 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


Yes, the prices on music and movies at Borders were high, but they had a great selection, and it always felt so welcoming there. I find Barnes & Noble to be a sterile atmosphere.

As for the Feel Flows Box Set, count me among those who would buy it on vinyl, but I agree it should be available in all media. They'll have to pry my physical media from my cold, dead hands.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 04, 2019, 11:19:21 AM
I miss Borders, and I’m sure at some point Barnes & Noble will join them in the graveyard as well (I'm down to two locations within reasonable driving distance, where it used to be like 5 or 6). But Borders had *awful* prices. Barnes & Noble is overpriced, and Borders as I recall was even worse.

Most of the stores I remember, both in my youth and even more recently, seem to be have disappeared. Tower Records, Circuit City, Toys R Us (recently re-opened a couple locations, but it’s more a PR thing than back to being a real chain), Kay Bee, Borders, Suncoast, “The Wherehouse” (probably more regional), Blockbuster Video, Hollywood Video, the list goes on and on.

And the funny thing is, the big box stores (Target, Walmart, etc.) aren’t really filling those niches. I recall a year or two ago when Toys R Us went under, all the articles said Target and Walmart would move in on that market/territory and stock more toys. Newp. They suck.

And, more unsurprisingly, stores are continuing to carry less and less music and movies. I’m guessing music will be completely gone from Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble (a little rack of overpriced “collectible” vinyl doesn’t count) in the next few years (I think “Best Buy” has already eliminated it). I’d expect physical video media to follow suit in the next several years, perhaps relegated to the same sort of cheapo DVD rack you see at Rite Aids and 7-11 stores.


 They'll have to pry my physical media from my cold, dead hands.
Amen.  8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 05, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
Wow!
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on December 06, 2019, 08:22:52 PM
I'm a vinyl lover, but the price of new vinyl has gotten outrageous. Not many stores have a deep selection anyway. If you're looking for new stuff in the Seattle area, Silver Platters is the only place worth visiting. But we have dozens of good stores for used records and cd's. Yes, I miss Tower, Peaches, Borders, and all the rest.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 07, 2019, 09:55:44 AM



Is today the day?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 07, 2019, 10:04:09 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 07, 2019, 10:20:24 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?



Historical data:




Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 07, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
My stomach is churning with anticipation. That, or more stones! Either way something big is about to happen :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 07, 2019, 10:42:59 AM
OMG!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 08, 2019, 04:28:49 AM



Is today the day?





Why would it be?



Historical data:




Last year's 1968 releases were announced and dropped on December 7th/8th.

"Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and the live '67 digital releases hit on December 8th, 2017.

The '66 live stuff - December 9, 2016.




It will be a Friday - since 2015 everything gets released on a Friday. (of course, New Zealand gets Friday before Europe or the US so most of us would know about it on the Thursday)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 10, 2019, 04:24:23 AM
UPDATE:

According to Reddit.

Digital stuff comes out this Friday.

And Bruce confirmed to a fan that the box set (physical!) is arriving February 2020

I’m in mobile so I can’t copy and paste but that’s the meat of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 04:59:29 AM
UPDATE:

According to Reddit.

Digital stuff comes out this Friday.

And Bruce confirmed to a fan that the box set (physical!) is arriving February 2020

I’m in mobile so I can’t copy and paste but that’s the meat of it.

Here's the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/)


Quote
Thanks to u/BlameTheDutch25 (Note: this is our member jiggy22) for clearly summing up what we’re expecting:

A set of material recorded in 1969, but not necessarily associated with the Sunflower album (stuff like Break Away, Celebrate the News, 'Til I Die Demo, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, etc.), will be coming out most likely this Friday, December 13th (digital streaming only).

At a November 17th show in Morro Bay, Al said they’re working on a box set with material from Sunflower and Surf’s Up (with “Feel Flows” as the working title). Bruce Johnston told u/HellaciousMedic at a recent BB show that a box set will come out in February 2020.

Obviously nothing is certain, this is just the best info we have so far. We do know legally we will be getting something soon so keep an eye out!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 10, 2019, 05:43:01 AM



The real new info comes from Bruce, the rest is (likely correct) speculation




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 07:32:13 AM
(Very likely) digital release in December
BW concert in January
Physical boxset in February

It's like 3 months of Christmas for me :-D

This is such great news about both sets. If there was any other era outside of PS and SMiLE that deserves a boxset it's Sunflower/Surf's Up. Cannot wait for this.

Thanks for the update, rebel! A Bruce confirmation is great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set WITH UPDATE
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 08:08:24 AM
Wow...this is awesome to hear, er, read!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set WITH UPDATE
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 10, 2019, 09:08:51 AM
Wow...this is awesome to hear, er, read!


!!!!!

Celebrate the News has pretty much the best outro/tag in the history of this band. At least for non-Brian material. It's certainly the most rocking. I dare anyone to listen to that outro at full volume and not move/headbang to the beat. I double dare ya.

Crossing my fingers we get some cool alternate versions of that song and a fresh mix.

Also, San Miguel needs a fresh mix in the worst way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 10, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
I can't wait for this! We're coming up to possibly my favorite Beach Boys era(the 1969 era tracks, and going into Sunflower followed by Surf's Up).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DennysDrums83 on December 10, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
I know it's still a few years away, but I would love to get a "In Concert" box set with a bunch of unreleased live tracks from 72-73 including "River Song", "Here She Comes", "Surf's Up", and "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 10, 2019, 04:40:19 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 05:04:37 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 05:06:25 PM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.
Absolutely. These invaluable works deserve much more respect from the record company and recognition from public.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 05:58:54 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 10, 2019, 06:36:49 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 10, 2019, 07:10:49 PM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.

Ain't that the truth. I owe my fandom of this band to Cameron Crowe, due to the BBs infomercial he squeezed into his film "almost famous"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on December 11, 2019, 12:46:35 AM
This Friday and not even an announcement

Bizzare
There was no official announcement from, say, Beach Boys social media accounts and the official site, prior to the release of last year's copyright set either.

That said, it's concerning that there has been little info on the release shared beforehand from Alan and Mark unlike last year. Probably they're too busy working on the box set though.

It has always blown my mind the complete lack of marketing for these projects - I mean, how much effort does it take to post one little blurb about a new set that you can buy on iTunes? Brian's Facebook, The Beach Boys Twitter account, etc etc...even just a handful of people becoming aware and buying the set due to social media marketing would make the 10 seconds it takes to post a message worth it.


Seriously. It’s probably the easiest and cheapest way to promote this stuff, especially if there’s digital only components or timed releases.

Brian’s Instagram did post a clip of him talking about Cool, Cool Water a couple days ago. Doesn’t mention any possibly upcoming release but it is like a little hint in a way, if you’re already thinking of it. Nice clip either way, he can’t remember the name of either a mellotron/Moog but he sounds real interested and in a good mood.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 11, 2019, 06:08:17 AM
True, but as long I can buy it, I'm happy

I'll definitely be happy when this thing drops. But I'm reminded of my own weird Beach Boys journey, where marketing 'Don't Worry Baby' in a movie is the reason I immersed myself deeply into The Beach Boys catalogue. From my perspective, you never know what odd marketing (no matter how small the effort) will affect what people hear this music and get involved in the community.

But I totally agree with ya, I'll be happy as long as I can buy/listen to it.

Ain't that the truth. I owe my fandom of this band to Cameron Crowe, due to the BBs infomercial he squeezed into his film "almost famous"

I absolutely love that movie, and the inclusion of Feel Flows is icing on the cake. The movie that got me back into The Beach Boys in a serious way was 'De Ja Vu' - it's definitely not on 'Almost Famous' levels, but it just goes to show that no matter how odd the context of the marketing of this music, it can still resonate with people. That was 10+ years ago, and had I never seen that film I know my life would be completely different right now.
________

Thanks Slothrop for the heads up on the instagram post (https://www.instagram.com/p/B5sltnNhYHr/)! I would say that isn't a coincidence. Hopefully we get more of those leading up to February! I could listen to Brian explain music all day and never get tired of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on December 11, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
Friday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 11, 2019, 10:33:31 AM
That Instagram post is very interesting. Is it a new clip of him, or an older one that they just decided to use? The harmony part he sang was pretty nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on December 11, 2019, 12:16:55 PM
Friday.

or tomorrow (Thursday - US time zones) in New Zealand and Australia!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: slothrop on December 11, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
That Instagram post is very interesting. Is it a new clip of him, or an older one that they just decided to use? The harmony part he sang was pretty nice.

Not sure but they don’t put a lot of references to Sunflower on his Instagram, so maybe (hopefully) it’s part of new interviews done for promotion of this period.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 11, 2019, 03:21:39 PM
I’m 100% sure the first part (Brian saying how much he loves Cool Cool Water) is from EH documentary. He then continues, and the keyboard discussion part I hadn’t heard before. Probably the same interview, just edited.


https://www.instagram.com/brianwilsonlive/?hl=en


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: marcella27 on December 11, 2019, 07:13:24 PM
Brian's impersonation of rooster is great.  "One of those...what do they call them?  A...rooster."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 12, 2019, 02:21:58 AM
Has anyone from AUS/NZ found anything yet?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 12, 2019, 02:26:11 AM
Has anyone from AUS/NZ found anything yet?
It should be 35 minutes until it's Friday in NZ. We'll see....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on December 12, 2019, 03:07:49 AM
I've got access to Aus/NZ/Vietnam stuff, but I don't know what I'm looking for... any ideas?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ReggieDunbar on December 12, 2019, 03:10:21 AM
I've got access to Aus/NZ/Vietnam stuff, but I don't know what I'm looking for... any ideas?

Keep on updating on their discography!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 12, 2019, 03:13:52 AM
Im from nz, nothing yet and its friday


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 12, 2019, 03:25:52 AM
I am so excited!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 12, 2019, 03:26:37 AM
Im from nz, nothing yet and its friday
oh no, that's too bad.

Guess it would be out on Dec 20 or 27? Or some outtakes from 1969 (which are, admittedly, not many) would be out of copyright...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on December 12, 2019, 05:21:24 AM
IIRC, the copyright motivation actually resulted from a misunderstanding of the law, which is why most artists (including the Beatles!) did them for a year or two and then stopped. The BBs continued because of fan interest. Seems like fans weren’t interested enough in last year’s for them to continue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 12, 2019, 06:01:23 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 12, 2019, 06:02:56 AM
Last year's collection was well received despite receiving very little promotion. No need for the sky to fall... yet.

The year by year trawl through the BB vaults seems to have continued unabated... hence the Murray set coming out next friday. Maybe everything is due to drop on the 20th.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 12, 2019, 07:02:59 AM
My understanding of the copyright law -- which admittedly is next to none -- is that it goes by the *songs themselves,* not the *performances*. That would explain why The Beatles only had one copyright extension release -- and even that one was kind of useless because every *song* in and of itself had been released at some point. Except for "Carnival of Sound," I can't think of any Beatles song in the vaults that hasn't had some kind of release.

But going through the Beach Boys' copyright extension releases:
The Big Beat 1963 had at least one previously unreleased song ("Thank Him")
Keep An Eye On Summer had a few
In 1965 and 1966 I don't think there really was anything; what The Beach Boys gave us was all bonus.
Sunshine Tomorrow had "All Day, All Night" and "Honey Get Home"
Wake the World had a good handful of previously unreleased titles

The thing is...if the Beach Boys were putting out collections that had *just* the unreleased titles, they'd be pretty small, so they were padded with some stuff that was obviously ear candy for us die-hards. There was no reason, for example, to release any of the concert stuff, because none of those titles were in danger of copyright expiration, but we got 'em anyway.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 12, 2019, 07:47:00 AM
Regarding the level of fan interest for the end-of-year “Copyright Extension” comps, while I don’t have any sales numbers, I would tend to think that these releases don’t sell in huge numbers, but Capitol/BRI know that ahead of time. I don’t think everything prior to the ’68 comps was selling a great deal more than the ’68 stuff. Also, these releases tend to have a pretty minimal budget. They have to pay for the stuff to be mixed and mastered (and sometimes not even mixed when vintage mixes are used). But it’s all material that’s already there. It’s pretty close to free money, especially the digital-only releases where there’s no manufacturing overhead costs.

In a few cases, Capitol/UMe and BRI have highlighted key/important material that’s worth doing physical releases for. I’d gather that a 70/71-ish boxed set early next year would be such a case, and they’d do something a bit more elaborate to make it worth a physical purchase.

From everything I’ve heard/seen, I’d tend to doubt that all of a sudden they’re going to cut off any further archival releases.

As for the “Copyright Extension” aspect and whether they *need* to be putting this stuff out, as far as I know it seems to be a case of there being some conflicting, contrary interpretations of the law, but that the “safe” thing to do is at the very least put out any unreleased songs that weren’t released in the past in order to more safely protect them under copyright. As previously mentioned, it seems that the only stuff that *need* protection are songs not previously released. That’s why the first ’63 release, “Big Beat ‘63”, was only full of weird odds and ends like “Thank Him”. Subsequently, it does appear that for the most part each successive year’s release has been a case of grabbing the hand full of songs that *need* protection, and then filling the sets out with stuff for fans (and also putting stuff that will at least lead to hundreds or a few thousand copies being sold rather than only 85 copies if it’s just like an EP with nothing but “Endless Sleep” and “Christmas Eve”).

There are no doubt grey areas in this copyright law. What if a 1967 demo for “Life is for the Living” surfaced? Would it then immediately put the “Adult Child” version in public domain because it’s now established that it’s over 50 years old and hasn’t been protected?

We know that having released any take of, say, “Fun Fun Fun” therefore protects all “work parts” for that eventual master. But what about completely different sessions? What if a 1968 session tape for “Sweet and Bitter” exists?

Also, it seems unclear as to how live recordings are classified. It would seem one interpretation is that the recording itself has to be protected, thus the huge dumps of extant live recordings in some previous years. But obviously as we get into the 70s, I doubt BRI is going to put out every extant recording from that decade.

Going back to the mention of the Beatles ’63 “extension” set, that one was odd. It had a bunch of raw ’63 session tapes, but not *all* of them. A bunch of takes of “There’s a Place”, but still missing some that circulate. Not sure what that was about. And if indeed it’s a case of only needing to protect unreleased songs, then indeed due to the small number of unique unreleased song titles (all of which made it onto archival releases save “Carnival of Light”, which did technically get one public airing at some show/exhibit some years back), the Beatles releases aren’t needed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 12, 2019, 11:06:59 AM
I'm in Ireland. Was expecting it to be out tonight past 12 but its not looking good


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 12, 2019, 11:08:06 AM
Ok, here's a weird question; do informal studio jams count as unreleased songs?  ;D I was just reading the Beatles recording sessions book, and I noticed a few entries where the group apparently did some sessions of just raw jamming during the Sgt Pepper sessions. Would they count as songs? I have a feeling that the Get Back session tapes would be extremely difficult to sort out from a legal perspective, because it would come down to trying to define what would be considered and "unreleased song", and what would be considered just an impromptu jam made up on the spot for fun.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on December 12, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
7.00am Friday in Sydney - nothing on itunes or spotify yet


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 12, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
I’m watching this thread like a hawk awaiting news...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 12, 2019, 12:16:12 PM
I’m watching this thread like a hawk awaiting news...

Me too. This is really disappointing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 12, 2019, 12:16:51 PM
BTW, I looked at the Reddit post again...it actually says "digital streaming only." Does that mean it won't be downloadable??? (Note to self...log into that Reddit account I never use and ask questions.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 12, 2019, 12:32:31 PM
When I see people say "streaming", it can mean either.

Some folks have taken to using "streaming" as a term for video or audio that encompasses all digital formats, including actual streaming (e.g. Spotify, Pandora, etc. for audio, or Netflix/Amazon or digital rentals for video) as well as digital *purchases* (e.g. actual downloadable audio files, or the "purchase" of digital video for full retail price, which usually still entails *streaming* the purchase rather than downloading it).

I sense the audio world has become even more polarized/extreme; people either go for physical releases or, if they're fine with digital, they often just go with Spotify rather than *buying* MP3s on Amazon, etc.

That being said, there hasn't been any digital-only release in terms of these BB "extension" releases that has been literally "streaming only", they've always been made available on Amazon for download, iTunes (or whatever Apple is calling their store now), and other digital audio retailers who often sell lossless and high-rez downloads.

Given how a large contingent of Beach Boys fans in my experience (no offense intended) tend to be well behind the cutting edge or even mainstream of how audio is consumed, they would be severely limiting their audience by only streaming a new BB "extension" release.

I'd say the main thing that would need to be clarified if they still do a digital release this month and also intend to do a physical boxed set sort of thing in a few months from now, is if the physical release will have any or all of the content of the earlier digital release, or if they are separately themed collections. The one reddit blurb implies the digital release coming first would catch 1969 odds and ends that need to be released before the end of 2019 that fall outside the purview of whatever the physical release will be. But I dunno.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on December 12, 2019, 03:18:34 PM
I'll buy digital files, but am not interested in anything that requires me to buy a subscription.

Also waiting for release news, like everyone else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on December 12, 2019, 03:54:43 PM
Not a single person in the know has said a digital release is coming this year. Given the lack of content thus far I would temper expectations accordingly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 12, 2019, 04:13:24 PM
Nope.. Not out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 12, 2019, 07:01:22 PM
Ok, here's a weird question; do informal studio jams count as unreleased songs?  ;D I was just reading the Beatles recording sessions book, and I noticed a few entries where the group apparently did some sessions of just raw jamming during the Sgt Pepper sessions. Would they count as songs? I have a feeling that the Get Back session tapes would be extremely difficult to sort out from a legal perspective, because it would come down to trying to define what would be considered and "unreleased song", and what would be considered just an impromptu jam made up on the spot for fun.
Yes, they count. An improvisation is a composition. Its creator(s) hold(s) the copyright at the moment of its creation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on December 12, 2019, 11:16:12 PM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on December 13, 2019, 02:13:48 AM
IIRC, the copyright motivation actually resulted from a misunderstanding of the law, which is why most artists (including the Beatles!) did them for a year or two and then stopped. The BBs continued because of fan interest. Seems like fans weren’t interested enough in last year’s for them to continue.

Not according to Mark Linett last year:

"It has a lot to do with 50-year copyright term limit in the U.K. and the E.U. for sound recordings. Back in 2013, some copyright tribunal amended that, and added 20 years to the term. But there was a sort of use-it-or-lose-it provision, which basically said unreleased recordings have to be officially released within 50 years of creation in order to get copyright protection. And I think they did this because in 2012, the first Beatles recordings were starting to fall into the public domain. It happened with the Beach Boys too — the Surfin’ Safari album in that territory is now public domain, because the registration wasn’t retroactive."

But The Beatles and Beach Boys stuff was released

I see these things as copyrighting things like sessions or alternate takes


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 13, 2019, 02:34:43 AM
Nothing as of this morning. I have a feeling it'll be out next Friday with the Murray EP.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 02:50:53 AM
Murry EP?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 02:58:56 AM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.
Exactly. Is "Commonwealth" a "song", or just an impromptu half mumbled piss take of the politics of the day? But then again, it can never hurt to copyright something just for the simple reason that it exists, right?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 13, 2019, 03:07:08 AM
Murry EP?
This one: https://omnivorerecordings.com/product-tag/murry-wilson/ (https://omnivorerecordings.com/product-tag/murry-wilson/)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 13, 2019, 08:33:28 AM
While it’s certainly up in the air as far as whether a digital download release will occur in the next 18 days, all chatter and indications seem to suggest a Sunflower/Surf’s Up set of some sort is in the works. It may well be that we only see a physical release, which obviously at this stage wouldn’t be taking place until a few months into the new year.

But what I’m pretty sure of is that the digital copyright extension releases have not been canceled due to “lack of fan interest” or anything of that nature. The digital releases have less overhead and are easier (and often cheaper) for fans to buy, and there are indications a *physical* boxed set is coming at some point, which would suggest a hope on the part of Capitol and/or BRI that there will be *increased* interest in this next release rather than diminished interest.

Going back to last year when the cache of ’68 live shows was released, it was established that BRI has essentially nothing in the vaults as far as live ’69 soundboard/multitrack recordings. So we already knew we weren’t getting the type of multi-tiered digital release that we got for 1968.

The only reason a digital release would need to happen by the end of 2019 is if there still is an assumption that as-yet-unreleased songs need to be protected, *and* there are unreleased song titles recorded in 1969 that are firmly established as hitting 50 years before the end of 2019 (not sure what happens when a song was recorded across 1969 and 1970 for instance). I’d still guess there are a few things recorded in 1969 that are still unreleased. I believe there were ’69 sessions for “I’m Going Your Way”, and some other odds and ends (“Over the Waves”, etc.). It’s true that most ’69 material is either already protected by having come out on “Sunflower”, or other archival releases in the past. “Soulful Old Man Sunshine”, “Loop de Loop”, “Where is She”, and so on, have already been covered.

Who knows. Maybe they want to put the remaining ’69 outtakes on a physical boxed set, and don’t want to make fans double dip by buying a digital download in December and then the physical set. Perhaps BRI will do some weird dump online only onto streaming services of just ’69 odds and ends?

I’m not too concerned by the timing of this stuff. The main concern is whether a BB release can still get bogged down in politics. I mean, *of course* it can and probably usually does. But it seems like in the last 10-20 years, it has mostly been small issues with track selection rather than some huge set being prepped only for a band member to try to cancel the whole thing.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 13, 2019, 08:38:31 AM
Presumably though a point comes where a judge has to rule that something is uncopyrightable by virtue of not being music.
Exactly. Is "Commonwealth" a "song", or just an impromptu half mumbled piss take of the politics of the day? But then again, it can never hurt to copyright something just for the simple reason that it exists, right?

In the case of the "Let It Be" sessions, they did indeed copyright every "song" that appeared in the film. So they copyrighted "Suzy's Parlour" (credited to all four), the off-the-cuff "Jazz Piano Song" (credited to Paul and Ringo), and even Paul's opening piano piece as "Paul's Piano Piece" even though it's Paul trying to sort of riff on Barber's "Adagio for Strings."

All that "Commonwealth/Enoch Powell" jam session stuff certainly is formed enough with enough chord changes and lyrics that it could be copyrighted (and likely will if it's released next year with whatever they're putting out to go along with the Peter Jackson film thing).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 13, 2019, 10:01:51 AM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 13, 2019, 11:42:12 AM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think there will be some sort of supplemental Smile Sessions release in the future.  Mark and Alan did a wonderful job on the 2011 box, and they and Capitol undoubtedly intended it to be the definitive treatment of its subject.   And yet, I, probably like many Smile fans, have never really shed the idea that there's still some unreleased Smile something out there that'd be worth hearing.   And, there's also the lingering fantasy that audio reels from the David Oppenheim film will finally turn up and reveal some missing material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 13, 2019, 11:43:37 AM
One thing that I really hope they do is get Stephen Desper involved in doing mastering of the full Sunflower and Surf's Up albums as part of this set. I know we all have these albums, but if we can get versions that sound as good as those study videos Mr Desper did, I'd gladly buy them again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 13, 2019, 12:37:47 PM
There wasn't a SMiLE copyright (digital only) release in 2016 or 2017 but we got a huge 5 CD box packed to the 80 minute mark on each disc a few years prior which sounds like what they are planning to do with Feel Flows.  My only gripe with that was hearing of a 6th disc worth of music being dropped from the box (could have been internet rumors).  They could have done a digital release with that extra SMiLE material plus a stereo mix of the album.  But next Friday could still be the day for some 1969 stuff.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think there will be some sort of supplemental Smile Sessions release in the future.  Mark and Alan did a wonderful job on the 2011 box, and they and Capitol undoubtedly intended it to be the definitive treatment of its subject.   And yet, I, probably like many Smile fans, have never really shed the idea that there's still some unreleased Smile something out there that'd be worth hearing.   And, there's also the lingering fantasy that audio reels from the David Oppenheim film will finally turn up and reveal some missing material.

Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 13, 2019, 01:13:02 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 13, 2019, 03:19:38 PM


The "Feel Flow" set and "On Tour: 1969" are now on Spotify...





it's what I would say if they were on Spotify.  ;D




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 13, 2019, 06:28:24 PM
Got me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 13, 2019, 06:29:29 PM
Not I. :3d


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 13, 2019, 08:03:02 PM
Knowing "On Tour: 1969" is very unlikely to happen, it didn't get me.


I wish that post were real though....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: AKA on December 14, 2019, 03:06:40 AM


The "Feel Flow" set and "On Tour: 1969" are now on Spotify...





it's what I would say if they were on Spotify.  ;D




https://youtu.be/mDEtCeeSp2k


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 14, 2019, 07:44:10 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: coco1997 on December 14, 2019, 09:08:39 AM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 14, 2019, 02:40:25 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.

It's almost like he's making this stuff up  :eggcellent


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 05:33:24 PM
On EH, SaltyMarshmallow said:

Quote
Some better info than just guesses suggests the 27th is more likely for something. Soundscan entries for I'm Going Your Way and Carnival have appeared with that date.

http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/16933/thread (http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/16933/thread)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 05:34:48 PM
Reddit guy with the info has adjusted post to say NEXT Friday (December 20th) so you can stop checking now lol.

He actually adjusted the post to say "fingers crossed" for the 20th so it's still just speculation at this point.

It's almost like he's making this stuff up  :eggcellent
Nobody is making stuff up. It's just speculation based on a few non-firsthand info posted on forums, to begin with.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 14, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
So far the speculation has been ridiculously wrong...so...why not wait for official word instead of relying on the guessing and speculation and whatever is posted on other forums?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 14, 2019, 07:49:59 PM
So far the speculation has been ridiculously wrong...so...why not wait for official word instead of relying on the guessing and speculation and whatever is posted on other forums?
Chances are that there wouldn't be any "official word" (if you mean official announcement by that) on this year's copyright set before its actual release.
Last year, (if I recall correctly) even Alan Boyd and Mark Linett had no idea about the release date until "Wake the World" and "I Can Hear Music" sets were released.

There would definitely be official promotion if a box set were to happen, though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on December 14, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on December 15, 2019, 05:05:54 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...

At the very end of the 1966 Child Is Father of the Man track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on December 16, 2019, 01:23:07 AM
Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates on eBay? Been meaning to make a topic on it ..

They were purchased by a private collector, and are basically unheard other than a tantalizing snippet at the very, very tail end of Wake the World Friends set.

I own that. Where at, exactly in the digital set is it? I really need to make a topic about this...

Indeed. Please start that topic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 16, 2019, 08:48:22 AM
Regarding the continued speculation and guessing and all of that, while anything too outlandish or unrealistic isn’t really conducive to anything, I don’t think speculation and guessing is uncalled for.

Yes, these “extension” drops have almost always been done with weirdly *zero* publicity. In fact, we’ve never really had a firm answer as to why neither Capitol/UMe publicize these sets ahead of time (other than maybe a few days in a few cases?), and do very little publicity even after the sets drop (I recall a few articles last year, though I honestly can’t remember whether Capitol or BRI did any sort of press release or if it was just music writers writing about the ’68 sets). It’s almost as if there’s some edict or agreement that these sets can only happen if they’re *not* heavily publicized. I dunno.

These sets will always have a pretty narrow audience, but I can’t fathom that releasing some info on the digital sets a few weeks ahead of time would do anything but *help* those releases. A little bit of hype and excitement wouldn’t be a bad thing. Why not pluck a track or two out and tease them? I suspect something like that might occur next year for a bigger, possible physical release of something. But it costs Capitol and BRI virtually nothing to do just drop a quick press release a few weeks ahead of time for an “extension” set, nor to pick a track or two and plop them on YouTube and other services to tease the releases. It’s why I wonder if the idea with these copyright extension “dumps” of material is that most parties (apart from those trying to get the band and the label to celebrate their back catalog) feel it’s best to keep these things low key.

In any event, while we shouldn’t expect anything other than radio silence given most of the sets from past years (the exceptions usually being the few that got physical releases), the radio silence leaves us with little else to do but speculate and guess. I think that sort of stuff when based on some sort of logic or reasoning (past years’ patterns, public listings that people dig into, etc.) is fine, and fun.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 16, 2019, 10:12:24 AM
Totally agree Hey Jude.  Speculation is what the message boards are for.  In the old days we'd meet other fans and speculate in person or over the phone.  This is the same thing.  I think it's a lot of fun.  Some people get annoyed by it.  They don't have to read it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 16, 2019, 11:19:07 AM
2HeyJude: "Hype" & speculation may be, wellll, helpful but it's definitely not fun - this date shifting "this Friday", "No, next Friday", "forget it, next next next Friday" is really pain in the neck. & extremely hilarious at the same time. :-D Didn't even think that random user at light trifle site reddit would even be listened & everybody seriously excited by his/her date guesses. Now it really makes sense. #makessense100% #wowamazingnews!!!  #WeGetItAnyFridayWoohoo!!! :3d #WhoSpeculatesCorrectDateWillWin3-storeyMansion

 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on December 16, 2019, 12:26:31 PM
the type of speculating the merits of which are being questioned here is, of course, by intent or happenstance, speculating the wrong thing

don't waste time speculating when but instead WHY

at such an 11th hour position we'd think all details of the release would be sewn up tight.  a delay like this can only mean they still aren't

so what/who is holding up the 'done deal'?

i.e., material (recorded or written) proved not as represented or inexplicably not delivered, terms as written were not as discussed or presumed, rights to material were omitted or failed, financial figures still being haggled about, much more editing work required than had been thought to make it as presentable as desired,  agreements by principals not signed, marketing studies changing on a daily basis, mistakes discovered only after the passage of 50 years

those are all unknowns to us, without being tipped and that may happen in the crunch of things


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 16, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
Calling it a delay implies they intended to release it one of the last two weeks - which we've already established we have no evidence of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 16, 2019, 02:55:48 PM
I'll be frank...until I get some sort of real proof that something's happening, it's not happening. I've heard diddly sh*t all year about this until the recent Reddit post. Don't know why I let that sway me for a bit; quite possibly wishful thinking on my part


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 17, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Like much of the speculation, it depends on what definitions of terms we’re using. Can we safely call anything a “delay” in this case? I don’t know. There are multiple types of delays. There are cases were a release date is announced, and a delay pushes it back. That’s certainly *not* the case here, where no release has been announced. However, there are of course internal delays. A release may have been in the offing with a tentative date that got pushed back. Let’s remember that even in cases where there absolutely *has* to be a release by the end of the year for copyright purposes, they for whatever reason always wait until the last few weeks of December to do it. So I never assume anything is coming, and when it seems that it *is* coming, I always just assume December 31 until I hear otherwise.

As a beleaguered long-time BB fan, I know never to assume *anything*. However, I’m not sure why there are suppositions that there is like *zero* indication of something coming. Two band members have indicated something is coming, if only in physical form in the coming months. Unless someone is just making s**t up, those Soundscan entries for song titles with dates tied to them are certainly pretty compelling if circumstantial evidence. And yes, there have been other “rumblings” from a variety of sources throughout the year.

My guess some time back was that we were going to get sort of a “Sunshine Tomorrow” or “Party Unplugged” sort of situation where a physical release ran concurrent with a digital counterpart (with either identical content or a digital “sequel” like we got for the ’67 stuff). I wonder if a physical set release has seen any number of easily imaginable delays (it’s the BBs and BRI we’re talking about here, and we’re also talking about an era in the band’s career where the non-Brian members have a larger stake/interest in the material since they were writing and singing and producing more of it, hence more potential negotiating and vetoing, etc.), and maybe the plan changed relatively late in the game to secure the needed material for protection by the end of this year in digital form. Then, in turn, they’d still need everybody to sign off, and they’d probably still want to not make it another “Big Beat ‘63” with only odds and ends of limited interest, so they may still want to fashion something more presentable in the mode of the ’67 and ’68 studio sets.

But I’m not annoyed by the speculation; it’s fun. And this is coming from someone who has for DECADES now been saber-rattling about opening up the archives, that those archives are frankly more interesting and important than any live tours or new studio material to be honest. There’s a team in there now working on this, and if *that* team can’t make the BBs/BRI open up the archives, then nothing will make that happen short of scenarios we don’t want, namely when the BRI members are deceased, by which time even the 90s hipster fans the bands gained will be headed towards collecting social security.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 19, 2019, 03:02:25 AM
Well, its Friday in New Zealand and
... no new releases :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 19, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 19, 2019, 08:36:49 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?
Bruce also mentioned the box.  And it would be coming out in 2020 at this point.  We are just hoping for an additional 1969 digital release (similar to something like Sunshine Tomorrow Part 2) to drop tomorrow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on December 19, 2019, 08:48:46 AM
Maybe next Friday...

(wishful thinking on my part)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 19, 2019, 08:55:14 AM
This new digital set is sure to sell a million units....... in January!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 19, 2019, 09:02:35 AM
Unless I've missed something, there has been no official announcement of any new Beach Boys product, compilation or box set.  All we have to work with is Jardine's vague statement.  But if this potential release was going to focus on the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, wouldn't it make more sense to put it out next year for the former album's 50th anniversary?  Hasn't that been basically how they've been releasing these last few compilations?  Why would we expect this to come out beforehand?

If there are any unreleased songs from the Sunflower/Surf's Up era that were recorded in 1969, then they'd need to be released by year end. Something akin to “Walkin’” or "Well You Know I Knew", which were recorded during the 20/20 sessions in 1968.

I'd be surprised if there's not at least a digital release of live performances, perhaps with a few studio recordings tacked on to ensure copyright protection (if there are any).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 19, 2019, 10:57:45 AM
Well, its Friday in New Zealand and
... no new releases :(

Was hoping to have it for Christmas like last year. That's a shame


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 19, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
Does this mean I’ll be able to do Fig Plucker without any retribution? Asking for a friend... :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 19, 2019, 04:41:12 PM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 20, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
I think we can at least conclude what they don't want to include on a theoretical box set. Perhaps that's what we got today!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 20, 2019, 05:02:34 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 20, 2019, 05:53:19 AM
Does this mean I’ll be able to do Fig Plucker without any retribution? Asking for a friend... :lol

If these type of tracks are not released by 23:59, December, 31, 2019, they will fall into public domain, at least within the EU, correct?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 07:18:43 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 20, 2019, 08:11:21 AM
Maybe the separate release of the Murry tracks should have been a clue. If we were getting another copyright dump this year, wouldn't they have just been thrown in the big pile like the past curios we've received, Audree's vocal track from last year, etc? I think this is it for 2019.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2019, 09:26:14 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I suppose in the "anything is possible" category, that might be something to worry about.

But what was the last Beach Boys mainstream (meaning Capitol/UMe/BRI) release that *wasn't* released digitally? Indeed, the main mode for these "Copyright Extension" releases has been *digital-only*, with a few also seeing physical release.

It is possible they'd put something exclusive on a 2020 Sunflower/Surf's Up boxed set? Perhaps. But I mean, with even large lavish boxed sets, they often carry most if not everything over to digital releases, down to the elaborate booklets and even video content.

I'd say there's a small chance there might be some small component of an eventual boxed set release that doesn't carry over to digital. I'd say it's as close to impossible as one can fathom that they'll do some sort of multi-disc boxed set and *not* release that on any digital formats.

At this stage, there are more vinyl-only exclusives than CD-only exclusives.

Really, those who only do digital/streaming aren't the ones that need to worry when it comes to music releases. They're covered by Spotify and others for streaming, Amazon and others for digital MP3 purchase, and other online retailers often for lossless and high-rez options.

And frankly, while I'm all for putting all this stuff out on any and all formats to get to the widest audience possible, I can't say a huge amount of consideration needs to given to someone who doesn't even have a CD player or disc drive to rip a CD, based on the one in a million chance that Capitol and BRI would do a CD-only release. I get it, PCs don't come with disc drives anymore and even I often end up ripping CDs to my iPod, etc. rather than playing CDs. If there was any precedent for not putting stuff out digitally, then I'd worry about those who literally have no means to play or rip a CD. But I don't think that's going to be a problem.

And even if some rando track is exclusive to a potential CD set, it'll probably be up on YouTube in short order for everyone to hear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 20, 2019, 10:18:21 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I mean, we can speculate to the farthest fringes of our imaginations (ie maybe they'll be releasing this set vinyl only - which is a ridiculous thought when you think about all the demos, live tracks, backing tracks, vocals-only tracks we could be getting with this set), but if we look at what they've done in the past, and what makes the record company the most money in this era, the reality is this:

Every physical boxset this band has released post-iTunes has had a digital release as well - sales would nosedive if they made this physical/CD release only. In an age where more and more computers are without CD drives and nearly every form of media conforms to our mobile digital lifestyle, I can't imagine that the record company would do this. Such an act would be inviting piracy - as in, many don't have a CD drive to even play this music, so of course they'd pirate what they can't access legally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2019, 10:32:52 AM
As far as I'm concerned this silence and lack of a download release this year is all good news if you are like me and want all of this 1969-71 material in a physical box.

I don't even own a cd player, so it's bad news for me

Any physical media release will also have a digital release component as well.
How do you know, though? The powers that be could simply say "nope", and that would be it. It may be an overly pessimistic view, but I assume/expect nothing, and just hope for the best.

I suppose in the "anything is possible" category, that might be something to worry about.

But what was the last Beach Boys mainstream (meaning Capitol/UMe/BRI) release that *wasn't* released digitally? Indeed, the main mode for these "Copyright Extension" releases has been *digital-only*, with a few also seeing physical release.

It is possible they'd put something exclusive on a 2020 Sunflower/Surf's Up boxed set? Perhaps. But I mean, with even large lavish boxed sets, they often carry most if not everything over to digital releases, down to the elaborate booklets and even video content.

I'd say there's a small chance there might be some small component of an eventual boxed set release that doesn't carry over to digital. I'd say it's as close to impossible as one can fathom that they'll do some sort of multi-disc boxed set and *not* release that on any digital formats.

At this stage, there are more vinyl-only exclusives than CD-only exclusives.

Really, those who only do digital/streaming aren't the ones that need to worry when it comes to music releases. They're covered by Spotify and others for streaming, Amazon and others for digital MP3 purchase, and other online retailers often for lossless and high-rez options.

And frankly, while I'm all for putting all this stuff out on any and all formats to get to the widest audience possible, I can't say a huge amount of consideration needs to given to someone who doesn't even have a CD player or disc drive to rip a CD, based on the one in a million chance that Capitol and BRI would do a CD-only release. I get it, PCs don't come with disc drives anymore and even I often end up ripping CDs to my iPod, etc. rather than playing CDs. If there was any precedent for not putting stuff out digitally, then I'd worry about those who literally have no means to play or rip a CD. But I don't think that's going to be a problem.

And even if some rando track is exclusive to a potential CD set, it'll probably be up on YouTube in short order for everyone to hear.
I think I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about a box set *and* a separate digital archival release, whereas you meant a digital version of the physical box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 20, 2019, 11:17:09 AM
Maybe Reddit has the answers.  ;D :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2019, 01:02:10 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2019, 01:52:16 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 20, 2019, 02:15:57 PM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.

Small record companies are tossed format crumbs to license because big labels throw no bones.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 21, 2019, 06:46:20 AM
All I know is that if it turns out to be a vinyl only release I’ll be extremely pissed.

Not saying it is, as I’ve heard absolutely nothing about the set apart of what’s in this thread, but just wanted to voice that.

Agreed; there are an annoying amount of vinyl exclusives (which often don't come with a digital download option). Some of it has to do with vinyl being really trendy now, and indie labels finding it cheaper to license things for vinyl-only rather than multiple formats.

I picked up a previously-unreleased soundtrack I really, really wanted for years and years that they finally put out a few years ago. It was vinyl only. So it sits there until I either find it digitally on like YouTube, or I stop being lazy and rip the thing from vinyl to digital/CD myself. It would be much easier if they just put the friggin' thing on a CD, or even offered a digital download card or something. But nope. The small label that licensed it only paid for a license to press it on vinyl.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Cover_of_Cabin_Essence_single_by_The_Beach_Boys.jpeg)

Do you guys remember the Cabin Essence 45 that came out prior to The Smile Sessions release? It was a giveaway or something with MOJO magazine, everyone here wanted a digital rip of it because that specific mix was only available via that vinyl freebie (up until TSS release, that is). I think I remember some posters getting annoyed by the amount of PM requests :lol good times.

As for the Feel Flows set, unless they want to drastically lose money on this set I highly doubt it'll be vinyl only.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 21, 2019, 08:48:07 AM
Great point rab.  They might want to do some decent promotion for this set - especially since Sunflower was named one of the top 500 albums ever and is not well known among the masses.  So they may be doing a similar thing they did with Smile Sessions - magazine and TV interviews, an advance single, record store promos, etc.  It makes sense if we are not getting a 1969 digital release and with what Al and Bruce have let slip.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 21, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
I would love to see a full on promotional campaign for this. I said it before (more specifically for any possible late-2019 digital release), but even some social media posts pushing this set would go a long way. I would love to see a wide range of interviews, sneak-peak 30 second snippets of select songs, as Ram4 says an advanced single would be awesome (in both Digital and 45 form).

To add to my Feel Flows boxset wishlist: I would also really like a Sunflower or Surf's Up poster (like the SMiLE poster we got in TSS). I have all my Beach Boys posters hanging up in my office, would love to add another classic to the collection.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 21, 2019, 01:38:15 PM
Some folk here may disagree, but I consider Sunflower to be their most significant release since Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on December 22, 2019, 04:09:52 AM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 22, 2019, 06:06:10 AM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion

Did you really mean that? Pet Sounds was Brian. He doled out vocal parts in order to make it a Beach Boys record.

Sunflower is great and, in its own little way, Friends is a mighty fine collective effort.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 22, 2019, 07:49:27 AM
I always consider Pet Sounds to be Brian's best production (even though I'd rather listen to Beach Boys Today! most of the time), and Sunflower to be the best group effort.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 22, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
Agree about sunflower. Probably their best Collective piece of music other than Pet Sounds in my honest opinion

Did you really mean that? Pet Sounds was Brian. He doled out vocal parts in order to make it a Beach Boys record.

Sunflower is great and, in its own little way, Friends is a mighty fine collective effort.

Agreed. I love the way Friends was created - I think it was Brian's last true effort at fully producing and completing a Beach Boys album. I love that everyone got to pitch in with music, instruments, ideas, but Brian was there co-writing and producing every song (even the one song he wasn't credited on). That album has such a varied style yet it's all so cohesive.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 23, 2019, 06:50:38 AM
I prefer Friends to Sunflower, but it is nevertheless a fine album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FatherOfTheMan Sr101 on December 23, 2019, 08:02:47 AM
Friends is a summer album and Sunflower is a fall album, both are perfect :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 23, 2019, 10:32:07 AM
Friends is more of a winter album for me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 23, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
For me, Friends = summer
Sunflower = anytime


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 23, 2019, 12:17:48 PM
I, too, prefer Friends to Sunflower, but also agree that the latter is great in its own way.

As for the seasons, Friends to me is a spring album - newborn life, waking the world, young love, it's the young adult years of a man who has just started a family. Even the cover art feels like the fresh green of spring.

Agreed with c-man, Sunflower = anytime.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 23, 2019, 01:30:57 PM
"Friends" has often been my favorite Beach Boys album since I first heard it in the mid 1990's. "Sunflower" has also often been my favorite album of theirs too. I can't make up my mind.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on December 26, 2019, 03:01:32 AM
It's not much, but we have something!! 27th in NZ!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 05:16:28 AM
Apparently on Spotify NZ

The Beach Boys 1969: I'm Going Your Way

I'm Going Your Way (Alternate Vocal Take)
Slip On Through (Early Version)
Carnival (Over the Waves) - looks like it is a 2:43 minute version






Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 06:57:58 AM
The cover art confirms what the track listing tells us, which is that this is a barebones legal requirement release, nothing more (though perhaps they only needed to put the two tracks out and just threw an extra Dennis outtake on there because why not).

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80551310_2448873675382648_608037966043938816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=_TRf6PRYqscAQnTVIlPKut3WKDnKrMlPLEmbrk_UX70YBF_wyhcXEj8_w&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=515ee0f48935cab4cffccdfeb2b84f6a&oe=5E74F513)

The only question remaining is whether these three tracks will also be out on the eventual boxed set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 26, 2019, 07:19:16 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 07:31:55 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

Again, I think this is a quiet copyright extension dump; stuff that *had* to be put out by end of year (and even then, only two of the three I'm guessing). The good stuff comes in X number of months in 2020.

This 3-song "EP" would be a supremely odd item to particularly promote. The Dennis songs are cool, sure. "Carnival" is more of a curiosity than a truly good song. I'm guessing if they *weren't* doing some sort of more thorough boxed set in the coming year, they would have filled this set out similar to what they've done for 1967 and 68.

I mean, I guess they could have pushed this as a teaser for a forthcoming boxed set, but perhaps they're still hashing out that boxed set.

But we can (hopefully) kind of just treat this is a pseudo-teaser for a forthcoming set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 07:54:34 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 08:28:17 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?

It was mentioned last year that BRI has virtually nothing in the vaults as far as 1969 live soundboard/multitrack recordings.

There is that French show aired on French TV that is available for purchase as a video download; presumably BRI does not own that footage. Other than small bits here and there, there's nothing but a few audience recordings.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 26, 2019, 08:39:46 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 26, 2019, 09:01:33 AM
What is the status on 1969 live recordings?

It was mentioned last year that BRI has virtually nothing in the vaults as far as 1969 live soundboard/multitrack recordings.

There is that French show aired on French TV that is available for purchase as a video download; presumably BRI does not own that footage. Other than small bits here and there, there's nothing but a few audience recordings.

Yikes! That is incredible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 26, 2019, 09:17:39 AM
Wow this is disappointing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2019, 09:28:58 AM
People, while this is the BBs and any future plans could unravel at any time, I'd argue the nature of this "extension" drop actually lends more credence to the idea that a larger, more substantive release is coming. If this was a full disc's worth of rando '69 outtakes, I'd say that might suggest the larger set Al and Bruce have spoken about was not coming.

A quick trawl of recording dates and song lists, as was pointed out by other folks including myself in recent weeks, indicated that only two songs were recorded in 1969 and thus far not released in any form: "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival."

I'm not understanding the disappointment, this weird EP actually potentially portends a larger release; we obviously just have to wait longer.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on December 26, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Guys, anyone have any idea who arranged "Carnival (Over the Waves) on this release? Was it Brian in particular or is this unknown?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on December 26, 2019, 12:44:07 PM
... And does anyone know whereabouts I can check its credits myself too? Thanks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 26, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
Here is ESQ’s reporting on the CE releases: https://esquarterly.com/2019/12/26/the-beach-boys-im-going-your-way-digital-ep/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 01:26:00 PM
5 discs?! Holy mother of f***.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 26, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
Here is ESQ’s reporting on the CE releases: https://esquarterly.com/2019/12/26/the-beach-boys-im-going-your-way-digital-ep/

What reporting? It's the same info that was posted here and elsewhere including the ep that was reported here when it dropped earlier. Unnamed sources?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 02:53:29 PM
It's interesting that on the copyright extension ep they would note that the version of I'm Going Your Way is an "alternate vocal take", when the other original version hasn't even been officially released. Why would they differentiate between the two, but only release one? That little bit of info isn't even going to resonate to anybody but the most hardcore fan base.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 26, 2019, 04:14:52 PM


At this point, which tracks recorded in 1969 have not been officially released yet?

I can think of "What Can The Matter Be ?", but is there anything else?
Could it be that, simply, there were not expiring tracks in need to be released this year?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 04:41:15 PM
I'm still  bit confused about the terminology and specifics of what falls under the category of being a candidate for copyright extension. Are actual unreleased songs themselves the most important and top priority? Do alternate takes or session excerpts of commercially released songs count for copyright extension?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 26, 2019, 05:09:08 PM
Carnival is one of those BB's songs that only us hardcores could ever appreciate  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 26, 2019, 05:20:33 PM
It's interesting that on the copyright extension ep they would note that the version of I'm Going Your Way is an "alternate vocal take", when the other original version hasn't even been officially released. Why would they differentiate between the two, but only release one? That little bit of info isn't even going to resonate to anybody but the most hardcore fan base.

This essentially confirms that the song will be included in the upcoming box set in a more complete form IMO. By releasing an alternate version, they can fulfill the copyright requirement but save the proper version for the box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 05:24:14 PM


At this point, which tracks recorded in 1969 have not been officially released yet?

I can think of "What Can The Matter Be ?", but is there anything else?
Could it be that, simply, there were not expiring tracks in need to be released this year?






Don’t forget Fig Plucker


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 26, 2019, 06:43:44 PM
Apparently on Spotify NZ

The Beach Boys 1969: I'm Going Your Way

I'm Going Your Way (Alternate Vocal Take)
Slip On Through (Early Version)
Carnival (Over the Waves) - looks like it is a 2:43 minute version






Now on Spotify US.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 26, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
I can't find it on Spotify.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 26, 2019, 07:03:27 PM
I can't find it on Spotify.

I also can’t find it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 26, 2019, 08:43:34 PM
Try this link:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2qJkNuNWv8E2vogifmYUOc


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Fall Breaks on December 26, 2019, 10:35:21 PM
Thanks Wata!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2019, 10:38:22 PM
Thanks for posting the link!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 27, 2019, 05:05:07 AM
They are also on the Beach Boys Youtube channel as well.

Can't wait to hear more. All three are in great quality and it feels like a tease we'll have to wait for the rest.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 27, 2019, 06:17:34 AM
Here are direct YouTube links for those not otherwise inclined to trawl the web:

I'm Going Your Way - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omZqahnNaVM

Slip on Through - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S0D-9ri9pw

Carnival - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUp1LtH3TU


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on December 27, 2019, 06:44:36 AM
Thanks for posting the links, HeyJude. This definitely whets the appetite for the full box set.

The new tracks are now available on Amazon and iTunes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on December 27, 2019, 06:49:46 AM
What an interesting song.  Just my opinion, but I think if they had really worked on this and come up with a catchy guitar riff it could have had some staying power.  Imagine an album called California Slide.  What a cool name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 27, 2019, 07:02:40 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on December 27, 2019, 07:31:51 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 

When "I'm Going Your Way" was first booted, I couldn't understand why it was never released.  Perhaps the Manson connection.  This "new" version has me scratching my head even more.  It  would have fit nicely on the "Once Upon A Time in LA" soundtrack.  Kudos to Mark & Alan!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 08:44:57 AM
Available on Google Play for download:  https://play.google.com/store/music/album/The_Beach_Boys_The_Beach_Boys_1969_I_m_Going_Your?id=Begt25kjfztetxcelwytlbrqgqq

I like "I'm Going Your Way" (never heard it before).  It's quite remarkable just how much content the band recorded that never made it officially to any of their albums.  Although a good chunk of their unreleased content is either bizarre to downright awful, some of it such as songs like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", and "Barnyard Blues" are quite enjoyable. 

When "I'm Going Your Way" was first booted, I couldn't understand why it was never released.  Perhaps the Manson connection.  This "new" version has me scratching my head even more.  It  would have fit nicely on the "Once Upon A Time in LA" soundtrack.  Kudos to Mark & Alan!

Was "I'm Going Your Way" allegedly another Manson cowrite? What's the supposed connection?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on December 27, 2019, 09:29:26 AM
I know nothing about the origins of the song, but it certainly 'sounds' kind of Manson-ish. The lyrics have that same kind of creepy double-entendre-ish edge as Never Learn Not To Love. Which isn't to say that I dislike them... just that there's some menace to them, and they are a pretty shocking departure from what the group was releasing the previous year.

The overall sound is great. In some ways it sounds like a prototype for Slip On Through.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 10:18:24 AM
Hal: "One...Two..."
Dennis: "Pick up those sticks!"
Hal: "One...Two...Three", chop-chop-chop (double-time)

Classic!  :)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 10:40:18 AM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: coco1997 on December 27, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
So do we know when the full box set is being released?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 11:30:57 AM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

I complete agree. Whether or not this is a copyright extension dump, it could have been marketed as a teaser single for an upcoming set (or even simply marketing it as "Hey! Look what we just found in the vaults!"). Just dumping it and completely ignoring it makes it seem like the band has zero faith in this kind of material. Whereas the Murry Wilson tracks - obviously someone thought they had value because they spent some time spreading the word.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, because I am beyond digging this 'I'm Going Your Way' track (side note, completely agree with the poster who said this song would fit perfectly on the 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' soundtrack)...but why doesn't this band do any marketing for this stuff?? Social media marketing is about as simple as it gets. As I've said before: you never know what little marketing gimmicks will have a huge impact in the future. It's like the butterfly effect, even some minuscule post on Twitter marketing this could create some buzz in the right corner of the world, and create more sales for an upcoming set.

And, off topic, back to my comment about 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' - I was surprised Tarantino didn't put 'Never Learn Not To Love' in the movie somewhere! It seemed obvious that it would've been a cool Easter egg to place in the movie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 27, 2019, 01:25:42 PM
Some tracks Murry Wilson produced for an obscure vocal group nobody even remembers the names of got more promotion than new Beach Boys music. Mind boggling.

I complete agree. Whether or not this is a copyright extension dump, it could have been marketed as a teaser single for an upcoming set (or even simply marketing it as "Hey! Look what we just found in the vaults!"). Just dumping it and completely ignoring it makes it seem like the band has zero faith in this kind of material. Whereas the Murry Wilson tracks - obviously someone thought they had value because they spent some time spreading the word.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, because I am beyond digging this 'I'm Going Your Way' track (side note, completely agree with the poster who said this song would fit perfectly on the 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' soundtrack)...but why doesn't this band do any marketing for this stuff?? Social media marketing is about as simple as it gets. As I've said before: you never know what little marketing gimmicks will have a huge impact in the future. It's like the butterfly effect, even some minuscule post on Twitter marketing this could create some buzz in the right corner of the world, and create more sales for an upcoming set.

And, off topic, back to my comment about 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' - I was surprised Tarantino didn't put 'Never Learn Not To Love' in the movie somewhere! It seemed obvious that it would've been a cool Easter egg to place in the movie.

Is there really a band at this point? Or do the two factions just occasionally "make nice" when there is some screamingly obvious reason to do so? Could it be the case that the highly lauded Sunflower-Surf's Up period--colloquially understood as 1970-71 due to the release dates of the LPs--is one of the few things that might galvanize them to work together again on a project? It could be that Mark and Alan decided to use that fact to push for something much more elaborate that would get a fuller range of marketing efforts because "the band" got behind the idea sufficiently to actively participate in its creation.

There's really only one track here that's worth getting excited about ("Going Your Way") and even it's been around in a similar bootlegged form for some time. ("Slip On Through" deserves a full chronology--and let me also suggest that any compilation of this period should include a new version of Steve Desper's book.) It seems apparent that any of the material from 1969 that wound up on Sunflower will likely be included in the FEEL FLOWS comp without copyright penalty, as these songs were already copyrighted upon original release.

Last year we received an incredible, unexpected treasure trove of material--frankly, you are sounding a tad ungrateful by moaning about what is probably just a lull in the process.

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 02:10:13 PM
Is there really a band at this point? Or do the two factions just occasionally "make nice" when there is some screamingly obvious reason to do so? Could it be the case that the highly lauded Sunflower-Surf's Up period--colloquially understood as 1970-71 due to the release dates of the LPs--is one of the few things that might galvanize them to work together again on a project? It could be that Mark and Alan decided to use that fact to push for something much more elaborate that would get a fuller range of marketing efforts because "the band" got behind the idea sufficiently to actively participate in its creation.

By "band" I meant whatever the entity is that markets the band itself. I don't mean that Mike, Al, Brian, and Bruce need to meet and discuss sending out a tweet about a new EP dropping.

There's really only one track here that's worth getting excited about ("Going Your Way") and even it's been around in a similar bootlegged form for some time. ("Slip On Through" deserves a full chronology--and let me also suggest that any compilation of this period should include a new version of Steve Desper's book.) It seems apparent that any of the material from 1969 that wound up on Sunflower will likely be included in the FEEL FLOWS comp without copyright penalty, as these songs were already copyrighted upon original release.

Going back to SaltyMarshmellows point: were any of the Murry Wilson tracks anything to get excited about? Not especially. And especially considering no one outside of us knows who the heck Murry Wilson is. But someone marketing that had enough sense to raise awareness just a little and now some people will probably buy those songs that otherwise would've have heard about it. This is solely my point: the smallest marketing could help bolster some buzz about this. And again I'll say, with the butterfly effect you never know how small of a post could lead to bigger sales. So while WE know and have heard this song before due to bootlegs, your average fan on Twitter more than likely hasn't, and thus just one little tweet could help bring some great music to ears that haven't heard it before.

Last year we received an incredible, unexpected treasure trove of material--frankly, you are sounding a tad ungrateful by moaning about what is probably just a lull in the process.

Apologies that my opinion sounds like moaning. I even specifically stated that "I don't mean to sound ungrateful" - and quite frankly, looking back on my post, I don't even see how shedding my opinion about social media marketing this great music makes me sound ungrateful to all the great things we have been given in the past few years. In fact I'm overjoyed by this music which is why I don't get why it doesn't get pushed even slightly with a Twitter or Facebook post.

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 04:15:57 PM
Is this 1969 EP technically the 1st standalone released EP by The Beach Boys since "4 By The Beach Boys" in 1964?

(Not really counting "Mt. Fairway & Vernon" as an EP since it wasn't a standalone release).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 04:22:49 PM
While the lack of marketing is weird, all I can say is that I'm seriously overjoyed at any/all archival releases by this band, and I thank Alan and Mark for their hard work, and for the BBs band members for allowing this stuff to be released.

If I were to guess - Capitol Records potentially being stingy aside - I'd assume that since the material on these copyright sets varies wildly both in terms of quality, completeness, etc, that perhaps some elements of the band (the people who have to sign off on what gets released) might be a bit ambivalent about some material getting released and heavily promoted.

Maybe a compromise was reached to put stuff out, but have it just put it out there very quietly for the hardcore fans (who will discover it even if there's not a lot or any Capitol label promotion) in order for there to decrease the possibility of anyone (who could veto stuff) vetoing the specific methods of promotion, and/or decreasing the possibility of vetoing which tracks by which members (living or deceased) get highlighted via promotion more than others.  Maybe it was just easier for a bunch of guys pushing 80 (some with strong opinions) and estates to just put stuff out in more of autopilot mode, thus decreasing boardroom meetings or internal bickering that might have had to otherwise occur if more promo was going to be a thing.

Basically I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of promo might on some level have to do with band politics. If that's the case, then I'm just glad we're getting what we're getting, and I'm VERY thankful.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 27, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
Might this set include Holland as well?

If it really is 6(?) discs, I think maybe. If this includes all of the Surf’s Up album sessions, then it presumably will serve as the copyright extension release for 1971 ... which would also potentially include some of the So Tough sessions. And if you’re including those, it could be an elaborate box for the “Surf’s Up Era”. We’ll see I suppose.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 04:56:34 PM
While the lack of marketing is weird, all I can say is that I'm seriously overjoyed at any/all archival releases by this band, and I thank Alan and Mark for their hard work, and for the BBs band members for allowing this stuff to be released.

If I were to guess - Capitol Records potentially being stingy aside - I'd assume that since the material on these copyright sets varies wildly both in terms of quality, completeness, etc, that perhaps some elements of the band (the people who have to sign off on what gets released) might be a bit ambivalent about some material getting released and heavily promoted.

Maybe a compromise was reached to put stuff out, but have it just put it out there very quietly for the hardcore fans (who will discover it even if there's not a lot or any Capitol label promotion) in order for there to decrease the possibility of anyone (who could veto stuff) vetoing the specific methods of promotion, and/or decreasing the possibility of vetoing which tracks by which members (living or deceased) get highlighted via promotion more than others.  Maybe it was just easier for a bunch of guys pushing 80 (some with strong opinions) and estates to just put stuff out in more of autopilot mode, thus decreasing boardroom meetings or internal bickering that might have had to otherwise occur if more promo was going to be a thing.

Basically I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of promo might on some level have to do with band politics. If that's the case, then I'm just glad we're getting what we're getting, and I'm VERY thankful.

Yeah I'm absolutely thankful, and again that 'I'm Going Your Way' track is friggin awesome (and it sounds so crisp!). I'd hate to see band politics get in the way of promotion, but I wouldn't doubt that would happen given this is The Beach Boys!

I'm sure Feel Flows will get some promotion though...especially because it's a physical set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 27, 2019, 06:34:23 PM
Is this 1969 EP technically the 1st standalone released EP by The Beach Boys since "4 By The Beach Boys" in 1964?

(Not really counting "Mt. Fairway & Vernon" as an EP since it wasn't a standalone release).

There's that weird "The Beach Boys Love Songs" EP from 2006. It shows up on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, etc.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/music/beach-boys-love-songs (https://www.thebeachboys.com/music/beach-boys-love-songs)

There were also EPs in other regions. Like that cool 1977 UK EP with Mona/Rock And Roll Music/Sail On Sailor/Marcella.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 27, 2019, 07:12:24 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on December 27, 2019, 08:00:24 PM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.

Hey c-man, I understand if you don't want to (or can't), but who are the instrumentalists and vocalists on "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 27, 2019, 08:00:54 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.

As a Beach Boys fan, without getting into the nuts and bolts of QT's reasoning for adding supposed not-too-well-known bands who were also hip to the soundtrack, I'm just saying I would've liked to have heard NLNTL in the movie. Considering the song doesn't even sound like the stereotypical Beach Boys song your average American knows and loves, I think it would've been a cool and subtle Easter egg for people to find on their own. That is all.

*edit: I do want to add that I did say I was surprised that Tarantino didn't put that song in the movie, so thanks for the explanation as to why he probably didn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2019, 09:51:14 PM

As for QT, I don't think he and his film posse are really Beach Boys fans. I'm not guessing that those in that orbit are deep into the deep cuts and vault material of the band; it made more sense, I suspect, to have Sharon Tate stick up for Paul Revere and the Raiders (the Melcher connection) than drag in a group that was off the charts in '69. Once the decision was made to just tease the audience with a ten-second cameo of Manson and pivot all the action to the Spahn Ranch, there's really no room for a Dennis-Charlie connection.

That said, "I'm Going Your Way" is pretty perfect for Cliff's ongoing tease with the Manson chick--but I just don't get the impression his taste (or the taste of those around him) really swings that way.

I mean, Dennis' name is specifically stated in the movie - so the Dennis-Charlie connection is already there in the movie itself. And there are some pretty deep cuts from lesser-known bands on that soundtrack - so the idea of placing a Beach Boys-Manson track doesn't sound like it would be too out-of-the-norm for the movie. Also, you don't have to pillage the vaults to hear the Manson-Dennis song that was on a studio album...and given how much research was done for this film I'd find it hard to believe that Tarantino wasn't aware or made aware of the song. Just my opinion.

Dennis' name is stated exactly once, and--as noted--Manson's actual presence is limited to a ten-second cameo. I'm sure QT knows about "Never Learn." But it's clear from the film--which is, after all, about the film business, with music as just an overlay--that he decided against that narrative thread. The fact that he has other deep cuts in there from lesser-known groups is part of his particular wonkiness--a desire to demonstrate some "higher" form of hip cred that is part of his moviemaking mystique. Apparently from where he sits the BBs were too well-known and not "hip" enough to be in that particular discussion even though they actually had the connection with Manson.

As a Beach Boys fan, without getting into the nuts and bolts of QT's reasoning for adding supposed not-too-well-known bands who were also hip to the soundtrack, I'm just saying I would've liked to have heard NLNTL in the movie. Considering the song doesn't even sound like the stereotypical Beach Boys song your average American knows and loves, I think it would've been a cool and subtle Easter egg for people to find on their own. That is all.

*edit: I do want to add that I did say I was surprised that Tarantino didn't put that song in the movie, so thanks for the explanation as to why he probably didn't.

I would also have loved to have heard NLNTL within that film, or just in general for that song to get more ears on it - not for the sake of the unfortunate Manson connection - but because it's one of Dennis's very best and most fully realized productions with the band. It just so happens that Denny did a completely phenomenal job with that song which had very creepy origins.

And how unfortunate it is of course for such a great production, and such a great song that Denny nursed out of that crude demo of Charlie's, to suffer having been largely ignored by the band for 50 years due to its origins. If the final result had just been a mediocre or average BBs song, it wouldn't be as unfortunate, but it just so happens that clearly Dennis put a crap ton of effort into that song, and it turned out exceptionally and unusually great as far as I'm concerned.

If that song had no such connection, I think people would for years have been talking about the final result being an early towering work of artistry from Dennis Wilson, where he really started to truly flower as an artist. But instead it has a stigma for life, understandably. We've had the instrumental "be with me" version officially released for many years now, and I'm convinced this song didn't get a similar treatment for all this time due to one reason and one reason only.

But I completely understand why the band would be hesitant to get that song more into the world. We're very lucky to have those two alternate versions of it from The last copyright extension release, I'm quite shocked that those were released but I'm very grateful they were. I feel like somebody must have convinced them that it was worth it to put those versions out purely for historical purposes and to make fans happy, and I'm so so glad that they agreed to it. Call me a weirdo, but those two alternate versions are among my favorite things to listen to in the entire catalog these days.

But somehow I don't see a scenario where that song will ever get licensed in a major film. I don't think the band or powers that be would allow it. I think the band wants to distance itself from Manson, although of course Mike's book might suggest otherwise. But as a unified group with various voting members, I don't think that would fly for the song to be used in a movie such as this one. Just my humble opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 27, 2019, 10:18:14 PM
I’m loving this!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sensiblechuckle on December 27, 2019, 10:45:12 PM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2019, 11:05:59 PM
Dig the Memphis-style guitars on this alternate "Slip On Through" and the country-ish psych guitars on "I'm Going Your Way". According to track sheet notations, these were (Mike) Deasy and Eddie (Carter). These two tracks were recorded at the same session at Gold Star, July '69.

On "Carnival", the guys sang each of their vocal parts separately, then doubled them (except for the fifth part) - a rare modus operandi for them, and probably the first time they ever did this. This was recorded on 16-track, so the final tape has four parts doubled and a single fifth part, using a total of 9 tracks for vocals (I think all of them except Bruce were involved with the recording). You can really hear the individual parts much better on this new remix than on the original bootlegged mix.

Hey c-man, I understand if you don't want to (or can't), but who are the instrumentalists and vocalists on "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival"?

All I can tell you about "I'm Going Your Way" so far is that those are the two guitarists, and that Hal Blaine is the drummer, and Dennis is obviously the only vocalist. The voice from the control room at the end of the bootlegged rough mix sounds like Bruce, so he was apparently involved in the production. As for "Carnival", it appears to have been recorded at the same session as "I Just Got My Pay", for which the Boys themselves played the instruments. Dennis can be heard counting it off on the new mix, and I hear Brian, Al, and Mike, with Carl and Dennis likely in there too. Doesn't seem like Bruce sings on that, unless someone else hears him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 28, 2019, 06:07:03 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 28, 2019, 09:47:10 AM
I hear Brian in the mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 28, 2019, 09:57:50 AM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

Thanks so much for this! I wonder if, like the Hateful Eight, they'll do an extended version for Netflix with the deleted scenes added. Nice to see that NLNTL (at least alluded to) was a part of this film, even if it did get cut.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kwan_dk on December 29, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
IF a box set is forthcoming, fingers crossed, I really, really, REALLY hope that some of those Stephen Desper mixes that he shared with us in those study videos will be part of it. I remember listening to a mix of Cool, Cool Water that blew my mind. (Only heard it once) It would be the perfect opportunity to get his versions out to a wider audience.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:27:02 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:33:23 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:41:39 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:49:27 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 5 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 29, 2019, 02:54:24 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!
Me too. Maybe the rhythm was to complicated? Sometimes I still lose the beat it  if I try to sing along.
Six discs?!?  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 29, 2019, 02:59:49 PM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.

For real? I loved the versions in the study mixes, but I gotta hear 'This Whole World' once in a while no matter what version it is!
I may have listened to it once or twice after, but that's about it. Only because "Slip On Through" is my all time favorite Dennis song as a group member.  ;D

It blows my mind that 'Slip On Through' wasn't a hit. With 6 discs of material, here's to hoping there's an early demo of that (and other songs) on this set!
Me too. Maybe the rhythm was to complicated? Sometimes I still lose the beat it  if I try to sing along.
Six discs?!?  :o

Oh shoot, I meant 5 discs. The source I heard for that number was that previous ESQ article...not sure where they sourced that info from though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on December 29, 2019, 07:36:09 PM
I wonder if the second Flame LP will be included?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 29, 2019, 11:49:37 PM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little. 

Proving my point that QT knows that story, but that he decided that such a level of detail was not needed in the film. To be "fair," you have to acknowledge that QT made a conscious decision not to go down that road any further than he did.

And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

As for the sound of "I'm Going Your Way"--it clearly sounds much better in this version, but I don't hear it as being all that much closer to being a completed song. As others have noted, it still needs some added elements. It certainly reminds us that the band had very disparate material striving to be heard, but what's also clear is that other up-tempp tunes from Dennis were taken to completion in its place ("Got to Know the Woman," "Slip On Through," "It's About Time") and they do tend to fit more neatly into the evolving idea of what the BB's were in its 1970 incarnation. Unlike what we've seen in the 1968 material, which raises some interesting questions as to just how the material for FRIENDS was decided upon, there's nothing here that raises similar questions concerning SUNFLOWER (in any of its incarnations).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 04:12:44 AM
To be fair, there was much more of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood cut out, for example, this is an outtake with Manson specifically regarding 20/20 and NLNTL;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg1J62Ut_k

With that out of the way, I'm really digging this new take of I'm Going Your Way moreso than the oft booted version, although I hear some of the bootleg still in there (towards the end), so I'm kind of curious to know what the process of editing this was, because it sounds to me it was very much like how Alan and Mark pieced together Walkin' from last year into a close to complete song.

Truth be told, and I guess we were spoiled with the last few years of Beach Boys outtakes and studio content, but I really liked this release, even though it's so little.  

Proving my point that QT knows that story, but that he decided that such a level of detail was not needed in the film. To be "fair," you have to acknowledge that QT made a conscious decision not to go down that road any further than he did.

And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 30, 2019, 05:06:53 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 30, 2019, 06:27:31 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 30, 2019, 08:00:53 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?

No, sadly. He pulled them down awhile ago after fears that BRI would shut it down...I don’t really know how to summarize it...someone else can probably jump in and fill in the details. I really only heard his mix of “Vegetables” because I never had the time to sit down and go through all of his mixes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 30, 2019, 08:53:00 AM
Amen. I literally quit listening to my Sunflowef/Surf's Up twofer after hearing the version in his study video. There just didn't seem to be a point to hearing it in any other way.
Can I find this anywhere online?

No, sadly. He pulled them down awhile ago after fears that BRI would shut it down...I don’t really know how to summarize it...someone else can probably jump in and fill in the details. I really only heard his mix of “Vegetables” because I never had the time to sit down and go through all of his mixes.

I would have thought it was more like he pulled them down after some um...rigorous debate here and other places regarding who was singing on the Sail On, Sailor video he uploaded.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 30, 2019, 09:15:45 AM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 30, 2019, 10:38:18 AM
Here's hoping "Carry Me Home" finally sees the light of day and gets a proper release.  I can't wait for the announcement of this box set.  This might be my favorite era for the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 11:00:19 AM
Here's hoping "Carry Me Home" finally sees the light of day and gets a proper release.  I can't wait for the announcement of this box set.  This might be my favorite era for the band.


Agreed. I’m also looking forward to hearing any possibly unheard Brian leads that would show off the change in his voice, as I’ve been obsessed with that for many years


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 30, 2019, 11:41:50 AM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.

There are the old 5.1 DVD isolations, and also for many years now a "vocals only" mix of the song has been around, and it's clearly *not* anything close to "Michael, Michael". I think it's clearly "bygone", but slightly more plausible (likely incorrect) possibilities are the usual "my god" or "by god", etc.

I always got the impression that "vocals only" mix was a sort of raw, "all vocal faders up" rough "mix", which one would think would have revealed alternate vocal tracks, but who knows. Whenever that was mixed down, other things may have been muted.

When can we start the "I miss my pad" versus "I miss my pet" debate for "That's Not Me?"  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 30, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
He took it down because he had a hissy fit over being told that he was wrong, and couldn't accept or admit to his mistake.
 COMMENT:   Thank you Jay for making my point.  You see everyone what happens?  It very hard  posting here because of people like Jay who thinks a recording engineer of fifty years, past president and CEO of a NASDAQ traded corporation with offices in five countries, and holder of several international patents, has a hissy fit. Jay, do you really think that after dealing with hundreds of not thousands of people on a creative level to a corporate level I am going to have trouble handling comments from fans -- anonymous fans?

NO!  I took the website down because it was beginning to affect the bottom line -- my livelihood. It's people such as YOU who make unsubstantiated comments as if fact, then others (in a re-posting) put their spin on it and on it goes. You show no respect for yourself by hiding behind a pseudonym taking pot shots at a known personality. In one post on this thread you praise my mix of Sunflower on the study-video with a wonderful comment, and in a following post you accuse me of having an unstable personality that can't handle criticism from some fans. I suppose you believe I had hissy fits all throughout the recording of Sunflower and Surf's Up? Or is this a new trait of my personality that you have detected -- a trait that must be true, because you posted it!!

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME? You have never met me, nor I you. If I had, I wouldn't know you from the other dozen Jays I've known in my life. [/size]

ATTENTION!!!   guitarfool2002  Global Moderator:

Here's an example of what we're talking about on my Honored Guest thread. Jay has made a personal attack to me. If not an attack on my character, then certainly a derogatory remark directed to me and only me.
Under Rules #2 and #5, I demand his post be removed. Also, if you are monitoring the comments posted (and I know you are because you are posting too) why do I need to ask you to remove these belittling darts being thrown my way?  If you are going to monitor, then monitor -- not just add a comment now and then. If you want me, a known personality to continue to post here, then do your job!

You see, Mr. Moderator(s) this is what happens . . . Jay says "he has a hissy fit." This is re-posted as "he is hard to work with." This is re-posted as "he loses his temper often." Then, "he's a loose cannon."  I don't have the time to defend all these roomers, but soon people with whom I must connect in commerce are looking me up on the Internet and finding crap, untrue crap. To which there is no time to take defense. The best thing is to stop them at their source. That's your job.

You see, I can't even post about a box set without some fan trashing me. This box set is about my work and I could contribute much to this website about it, but for poor monitoring of fans' breaking the rules. By not protecting your known posters, you are in effect, protecting all your hidden posters.  If you are not going to monitor and protect identified posters from slander by a few of the hidden identities, then don't expect me to post.
  ~Stephen W. Desper


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 02:11:47 PM
No more.... let’s move on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 02:24:46 PM
Agreed that it is best to move on, the post will be removed, and please moving forward let's not have any more like this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 30, 2019, 03:03:32 PM
Apparently the "study videos" can still be found online.

I think there was also some debate over the background vocals on "Surf's Up." SD insisted it was "Michael, Michael," as in calling to the angel Michael, but the vocal isolations that have been circulating (I think from the EH DVD 5.1 mixes) make it clear that it was "bygone, bygone." SD's explanation: there were two separate tracks with different vocals, and what we've been hearing was the wrong one.

There are the old 5.1 DVD isolations, and also for many years now a "vocals only" mix of the song has been around, and it's clearly *not* anything close to "Michael, Michael". I think it's clearly "bygone", but slightly more plausible (likely incorrect) possibilities are the usual "my god" or "by god", etc.

I always got the impression that "vocals only" mix was a sort of raw, "all vocal faders up" rough "mix", which one would think would have revealed alternate vocal tracks, but who knows. Whenever that was mixed down, other things may have been muted.

When can we start the "I miss my pad" versus "I miss my pet" debate for "That's Not Me?"  :lol

COMMENT to 37!ws:  Yes, it is all correct.  What I said was, you can hear Michael, Michael (that's what I hear) or "bygone, bygone."

Don't you see (or hear) it's not about what is sung, it's about what is heard. You can hear both or one, like an optical illusion of a turning box, can look like it's turning one direction and then turn the other direction.

It's one of many sonic illusions. You know how it's done? As I said, there are two tracks. If both are mixed together, the listener can hear either one. A sonic delusion. You are hearing the "wrong track" if you hear the other track  :) 
~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 30, 2019, 03:13:37 PM
I'm just going to say one more thing, and that'll be it for me. I lost under the name Jay because that happens to be my actual name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 30, 2019, 03:55:02 PM
He took it down because he had a hissy fit over being told that he was wrong, and couldn't accept or admit to his mistake.
 COMMENT:   Thank you Jay for making my point.  You see everyone what happens?  It very hard  posting here because of people like Jay who thinks a recording engineer of fifty years, past president and CEO of a NASDAQ traded corporation with offices in five countries, and holder of several international patents, has a hissy fit. Jay, do you really think that after dealing with hundreds of not thousands of people on a creative level to a corporate level I am going to have trouble handling comments from fans -- anonymous fans?

NO!  I took the website down because it was beginning to affect the bottom line -- my livelihood. It's people such as YOU who make unsubstantiated comments as if fact, then others (in a re-posting) put their spin on it and on it goes. You show no respect for yourself by hiding behind a pseudonym taking pot shots at a known personality. In one post on this thread you praise my mix of Sunflower on the study-video with a wonderful comment, and in a following post you accuse me of having an unstable personality that can't handle criticism from some fans. I suppose you believe I had hissy fits all throughout the recording of Sunflower and Surf's Up? Or is this a new trait of my personality that you have detected -- a trait that must be true, because you posted it!!

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME? You have never met me, nor I you. If I had, I wouldn't know you from the other dozen Jays I've known in my life. [/size]

ATTENTION!!!   guitarfool2002  Global Moderator:

Here's an example of what we're talking about on my Honored Guest thread. Jay has made a personal attack to me. If not an attack on my character, then certainly a derogatory remark directed to me and only me.
Under Rules #2 and #5, I demand his post be removed. Also, if you are monitoring the comments posted (and I know you are because you are posting too) why do I need to ask you to remove these belittling darts being thrown my way?  If you are going to monitor, then monitor -- not just add a comment now and then. If you want me, a known personality to continue to post here, then do your job!

You see, Mr. Moderator(s) this is what happens . . . Jay says "he has a hissy fit." This is re-posted as "he is hard to work with." This is re-posted as "he loses his temper often." Then, "he's a loose cannon."  I don't have the time to defend all these roomers, but soon people with whom I must connect in commerce are looking me up on the Internet and finding crap, untrue crap. To which there is no time to take defense. The best thing is to stop them at their source. That's your job.

You see, I can't even post about a box set without some fan trashing me. This box set is about my work and I could contribute much to this website about it, but for poor monitoring of fans' breaking the rules. By not protecting your known posters, you are in effect, protecting all your hidden posters.  If you are not going to monitor and protect identified posters from slander by a few of the hidden identities, then don't expect me to post.
 ~Stephen W. Desper

Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 30, 2019, 04:45:48 PM
And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).

I think the film reflects a grownup revisiting his pre-pubescent memories of what things were like in 1969. Focused on his childhood love of certain film/TV genres which he has exploded into a powerful, ultra-violent oeuvre to great acclaim bordering on hero worship by many. He's certainly taken a different tack with OATILA--creating a warm central relationship that is sustained and unsullied by the events that occur in the film--and he tries to proceed by indirection a lot more than usual, which indicates that he really tried a lot harder with this film to reign in his narrative excesses. That probably explains a lot of the cuts that occurred (including the Manson scenes).

And given that nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach to making this film noticeably less violent, and re-anointing his childhood self by making a nine-year-old girl the most focused, together person in the film, I think it's likely that QT acknowledges and appreciates the BBs in their early greatness (the portion that appeals to the teenager)--but I don't get the sense that he has followed them into their late 60s wilderness with anything like the affection so often demonstrated here. There is little evidence that he finds them musically essential for a film about 1969.

If he decides to make a longer version of the film--an ill-advised move from my perspective--he could indeed put NLNTL into the film somehow. But it will always be the case than when he first created the film he wanted to show to the public, that material (and, by extension, NLNTL) was excised from the film. (Assuming, of course, that it was actually in the film in the original cut.)

As a BB fan, I'm agnostic about NLNTL making an appearance in the story. There are more substantive ways to get a handle on Manson and the Family than any version of OATILA is likely to ever provide--with or without the song. I think QT should leave well enough alone and move on to his next project, particularly given the acclaim the film has received. (I can't find any recent references to a four-hour version; that was a prevailing rumor in August, but what happened instead is that QT tacked on a few things for a late-October tweak, which produced decidedly mixed reactions from the media.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 30, 2019, 05:07:26 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 05:18:27 PM
And even in these deleted scenes, there's certainly no room to overlay NLNTL into the sequence. About the only place where that could've been done would've been when Sharon Tate is playing "Good Thing"--and I think that even if QT had been at all tempted to try that, it would be seen as an overreach to have her listening to Manson's song. As noted, I don't think QT is viscerally a fan of the band, and the fact that he cut these scenes indicates that he didn't think that specific historical detail was important enough to retain.

I don't think anyone has been arguing against this point. Even given his decision to cut a more detailed Beach Boys/Manson connection from the film, as a Beach Boys fan I'm still surprised he didn't use NLNTL in the movie....perhaps just as background noise or someone driving by a record store and the song is heard playing for 3 seconds in passing. Which has been my only point from the beginning. To paraphrase my original post about this topic: I think it would've been a cool Easter egg for people to find. Clearly he didn't want to use the song in the film, or else it would be in there. But I'm still surprised.

Obviously Tarantino made a conscious decision to cut that deleted scene from the film. But I also think it's awesome that he consciously wrote such detail into the script and spent the money to record the scene. Also, there is talk that a 4 hour cut may be made for Netflix, obviously using the deleted scenes found on the blu-ray. But who knows what else could be added? Given NLNTL is mentioned (not by name but at least nodded to) in a deleted scene, I myself wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the song could be added to footage we haven't even seen yet for a possible Netflix extended version (edit: want to add that I know the deleted scenes added to the current run time of the film make for a 4 hour film, but who knows how he would edit the scenes or if there is additional footage from other scenes already in the film that he would add to such an extended version).

Also want to add that an album that Tarantino said has greatly influenced his soundtracks is the soundtrack to American Graffiti - an album with 'Surfin Safari' and whose latter bookend is 'All Summer Long'...so while this doesn't prove that he likes The Beach Boys, it inclines me to think that it's possible he has a soft spot for them. And until I see his gargantuan record collection, I don't think I'll comment on what music he dislikes (or isn’t a fan of).

I think the film reflects a grownup revisiting his pre-pubescent memories of what things were like in 1969. Focused on his childhood love of certain film/TV genres which he has exploded into a powerful, ultra-violent oeuvre to great acclaim bordering on hero worship by many. He's certainly taken a different tack with OATILA--creating a warm central relationship that is sustained and unsullied by the events that occur in the film--and he tries to proceed by indirection a lot more than usual, which indicates that he really tried a lot harder with this film to reign in his narrative excesses. That probably explains a lot of the cuts that occurred (including the Manson scenes).

And given that nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach to making this film noticeably less violent, and re-anointing his childhood self by making a nine-year-old girl the most focused, together person in the film, I think it's likely that QT acknowledges and appreciates the BBs in their early greatness (the portion that appeals to the teenager)--but I don't get the sense that he has followed them into their late 60s wilderness with anything like the affection so often demonstrated here. There is little evidence that he finds them musically essential for a film about 1969.

If he decides to make a longer version of the film--an ill-advised move from my perspective--he could indeed put NLNTL into the film somehow. But it will always be the case than when he first created the film he wanted to show to the public, that material (and, by extension, NLNTL) was excised from the film. (Assuming, of course, that it was actually in the film in the original cut.)

As a BB fan, I'm agnostic about NLNTL making an appearance in the story. There are more substantive ways to get a handle on Manson and the Family than any version of OATILA is likely to ever provide--with or without the song. I think QT should leave well enough alone and move on to his next project, particularly given the acclaim the film has received. (I can't find any recent references to a four-hour version; that was a prevailing rumor in August, but what happened instead is that QT tacked on a few things for a late-October tweak, which produced decidedly mixed reactions from the media.)

Yes, Tarantino talked a lot about how it was a revisiting of his childhood. In fact it's why a lot of the shots in the film (of driving through Hollywood) are from a low angle - he said he wanted to see the same perspective on film that he saw as a little kid when his dad would drive them through the city. Even if it is a movie that reflects Tarantino's childhood in LA, the film is also full of quirky and over-the-top moments that have no place in a child's memory. Thus again, I'm still surprised that NLNTL wasn't in the film as an Easter egg (not as a pivotal music centerpiece in the film)...with the full understanding that obviously Tarantino didn't want it in the film. I appreciate your replies and see what you're getting at, but it still doesn't change my outlook about it.

As for the Netflix version - what I heard about the late-October tweak was that it was likely a response to the film being banned in China (due to the Bruce Lee scene). What some think is that since that market was closed in China (thus a loss of profit), the movie company wanted to squeeze a bit more money out of the American theater audience by re-releasing it as an "extended" version (which only included two very minor additions to the end and beginning of the movie iirc). If correct, this was such a quick move that I doubt Tarantino had time to do anything substantial in regards to editing (thus it was just a quick bookending of two random additional scenes that added nothing to the movie itself). So such a version isn't really an extended version to the extent that The Hateful Eight (Netflix extended edition) was, thus I don't really think the October release is at all the extended version that Nicholas Hammond talked about in the Summer.

Once Upon A Time In Hollywood is one of my favorite movies ever. I have read so much about this film, watched so many interviews with Tarantino and the cast. I think it's one of the most perfect pieces of cinematography I've ever seen. So while I think this movie is perfect the way we have it, I wouldn't at all think it an ill-advised move for Tarantino to make an extended 4 hour version...it's like if BW made an extended version of Pet Sounds in 1967 - I would still consider the original Pet Sounds to be definitive, but I would be curious to hear what else Brian was tinkering with for that album. Granted, if an extended version doesn't come out I'm still a happy camper...this movie was above and beyond, and I'm just glad it was made in the first place!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 30, 2019, 05:30:47 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.

Completely agree. There's honestly zero reason that Mr. Desper has to post on this forum (especially in the stunning detail that he does). But he does and I think we are incredibly lucky for this. While some may disagree with some past statements and opinions he has made, there is a certain level of decorum to keep with someone who has given us so much...especially someone who has been consistently open with this community about their past with the band.

Also, would like to add that I think the mods here have done a great job (and have helped keep this community stable and free of trolls - and thus this place has been doing great for the last few years). As for the issue with anonymity of posters, my opinion regarding that was posted recently in the Stephen Desper thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 06:46:24 PM
Reply to Mr. Desper:  Action was taken as soon as both Billy and I became aware of what was going on. Understand that "my job" also involves working for a paycheck, which I was doing in the hours between when these posts were made and when I was able to connect with Billy on one of my work breaks this afternoon. Up until the last 2 minutes of my break at work, both Billy and I were acting on it.

So while I understand the frustrations, please understand too that I am not on call here 24-7, and neither is Billy. When something is brought to our attention, we try to act on it *when we can*. In this case today, I was working and unable to act immediately. So please have some understanding too that this is a volunteer gig which Billy and I do (Billy much longer) because we love the band and the music, we care about this community, and we care about the people who are part of it.

We can't please everyone. Just understand that sometimes our actual work and daily lives delay reading every post up to the minute, and having to read "do your job" is something we just have to let roll off our backs due to the realities of working on the clock as we do and having other issues to deal with on a daily basis. We do our best.

And I also don't want to remind people of the past, but I think we've done a pretty good job cleaning the place up and keeping it civil and focused on the music and the band. There was a time where interpersonal issues and posters acting like jackasses were filling our complaint boxes and causing a lot of people a lot of grief, and one of the best things we did was to put the kibosh on all that stuff. So while it's not perfect, and some want things a certain way and won't be happy until they get 100% demands met, we don't have near the issues that once existed here. And I can say with 100% honesty: Good riddance to all of that nonsense and those who were causing it. They're gone. The board is still here. While it's not perfect, while it doesn't please everyone, it's still a place to read and chat and learn and interact, free of PM smear campaigns, liars and frauds claiming some exemption from the rules and from normal human behavior, and people trying to bully off other members. Again, good riddance to all of that.

Standing offer, as it has stood for years: If anyone has a problem, please reach out to Billy or I with a message. While we can't make the preferred decision all the time, we will absolutely discuss and address any concerns. And that will also keep threads like this on topic for everyone else.


PS: Please remember that in the other thread, some "sources" also gave you information about me and Billy that was completely false, and adding that to a list of false information and outright lies that were and are still circulating about us personally along with distorting and lying about events that happened here, it is definitely not easy to correct lies and misinformation that others with a grudge are spreading around. So I know where your frustrations are coming from, and I've been in the same position as shown by whatever sources gave you incorrect info, along with whatever warped version of events from the past is still being told.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 06:56:25 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

Donny, if you have any issues, you have both my private contact info and can reach out to me or Billy here with a message. I'd prefer that to airing out more stuff against this board publicly in a thread like this.

As far as people not posting here, you know better and know the facts of what happened. If people don't post here, that's their choice unless they were banned. And those that were banned - They're no longer welcome here due to their own behaviors. Anyone was and is free to follow them wherever they go, but the numbers and readership has not suffered here, in fact with new members and active posters, the numbers on this board are larger than they were before 2016. So much for the exodus or scorched earth.

We had Brian Wilson himself come on this board to answer members' questions, and some here were more concerned with taking shots at the whole thing and trying to say it wasn't really him rather than enjoying the opportunity. Do you think he'd come back after someone said they'd rather have PeeWee Herman on the board? That's the general level of ass-hattery and disrespect that existed. Again, no regrets for sweeping that garbage out the door. We try to do what we can to keep it running smooth, understanding we can't please everyone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2019, 07:05:18 PM
Last one.

I too have learned so much from Stephen Desper's posts through the years, it's impossible to calculate just how much knowledge and enjoyment I've gotten from his writings. Add me to the list of those who would want to see him involved in a project involving the music he recorded hands-on with the band. I felt the same way about the Sgt Pepper deluxe sets when I found out the engineer Geoff Emerick was not part of the process in that sessions/outtakes and deluxe re-release project. These men who know every tape splice, who can recall fader moves and what was patched in on a given section of music, who can recall exactly which microphone and piece of gear was used to get those sounds on any given track, who may even recall what and whose drink of choice caused the stain on a tape box...Yes, I wish there was a way to include them in these archival releases. And it takes some of the luster off the excitement when they are not, for whatever reasons. For me at least, that's my 2 cents.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2019, 08:31:22 PM
I couldn’t say it any better GF.

On a lighter note... I’m hyped as hell for this set. When I first became a fan back in 1995 this is the time period that spoke to me the most. I never thought we’d see this kind of set,  as it felt like this material would be forevermore the “underground “ music. The Beach Boys as a proto-Tame Impala. Now a set like this feels like the ultimate vindication.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 30, 2019, 09:17:10 PM
I hope the box set would lead to wider re-appreciation of Sunflower and Surf's Up, as Sunshine Tomorrow did for Wild Honey.

On a side note, it's too bad that Rolling Stone replaced Sunflower with The SMiLE Sessions in their 2012 edition of "all time top 500 albums" list. I know they include compilations & best-of's in the list, and SMiLE is a terrific work of art on its own, but I'd have preferred that an actually finished (and great) album stayed in the list rather than an unfinished one.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 30, 2019, 10:43:53 PM
Have to say I agree with Mr Desper here. I think it’s clear lots of people don’t post here anymore because of similar reasons (including me for many months until this past week). Some are regular fans like me, and others are insiders like Stephen.

I'm sorry that BRI etal do not seem to understand how valuable it would be to have a fully-realized version of Stephen's account of his years with the Beach Boys available for posterity. I can only speculate as to the reasons why this is the case. I do think that there are some unhealed wounds there which on occasion manifest themselves in the exchanges here, but these are more than offset by the incredibly valuable details and insider insights that have emerged here over the years. For those who have found certain of Stephen's statements hard to reconcile with their own "sense of things," we need to use "tact, poise and reason" (semi-obscure non-BBs musical reference there...) to proceed with further discussion.

The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation. The more we remember this, the more likely it is that Stephen will reconsider his decisions: should that happen, the net benefits to us here at the board are truly immeasurable. We should all be doing what we can to assist in transforming a situation where Stephen's recollections have not been respected and honored at a level that they clearly deserve. Anyone who owns his book or who read the most recent incarnations of the study-videos know what we are currently missing.

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 11:51:53 AM
Quote
The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation.

I'm going to leave it at this for now : honored or not, everybody should be treated with respect, but it needs to be a two way street.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 12:10:32 PM
I will now apologize to Mr Desper for the "hissyfit" comment I made. But yeah, it's a two way street....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 31, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
I will now apologize to Mr Desper for the "hissyfit" comment I made. But yeah, it's a two way street....

Is an apology sincere if it uses the words that contributed to the ruckus? And 'but, yea?'


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Latshaw on December 31, 2019, 01:28:12 PM
<Is an apology sincere if it uses the words that contributed to the ruckus? And 'but, yea?'>

Of course not.  Nor is a curt self-defense by an  anonymous poster who notes that he bravely signs his missives with his real... first... name.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 01:31:41 PM
Second time I’ve asked this to be dropped and for us to move on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 31, 2019, 01:46:18 PM
Quote
The category "honored guest" is separate from the "average" poster here, and we need to be more conscious of this separation.

I'm going to leave it at this for now : honored or not, everybody should be treated with respect, but it needs to be a two way street.


COMMENT to ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩,  I'm sorry, but the only way it becomes a two-way street is if both parties reveal their real and true identity. Otherwise only one party can comment both ways, while the other party can only go down a one-way street.

I'm not certain what you are implying, but given the number of posts I have placed over the years, I believe you would be hard-pressed to find my treatment of any fan less than respectful and polite.

When I started posting here on Smilesmile, many "insiders" warned me of what I was getting myself into, saying ... in the end you will come out on losing as they are merciless as long as they are unknown.  I am beginning to understand why I was cautioned and why so many principle players remain silent.

From my perspective the solution is effective monitoring with action taken if the rules are broken. When you fellows took over that task, this site was not too friendly a place. I acknowledge the work you have done to make it a more friendly place and encourage you to continue, as this is an on-going problem that will always need your attention.

 ~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on December 31, 2019, 01:59:43 PM


Beach Boys fans haven't been gettin' any since 1968. 3 songs and Murry is just not enough. Beach Boys fandom demands a big release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
With all due respect...

You had indeed insulted us based on what had happened several years ago (and not just here). I thought we had cleared the air about it back then. Someone took offense to it. (Hell, *I* took offense to it but said nothing. ) said poster did not know you edited your original post and apologized for it.

And as for real and true identity, screw it. My name is William Terry Castillo. Date of birth 13 August 1978. Houston, Texas. I’m Hispanic and Dutch/Jewish. That’s all the personal information I’m giving out, but hopefully it proves sufficient to have my words and thoughts matter.

And if it seems like I’m a bit angry, it’s because quite frankly I am. Again, I thought we had moved on from what happened years ago. I’d seen your posts here and elsewhere making references to it and I let it slide. Some of those were not the nicest. I said nothing and now I wish I had, as it is readily apparent that these issues weren't cleared up. I once let a (then-) honored guest verbally abuse and threaten members with no consequences ...I'm not saying you're doing that, just making the point on why everybody has to be treated the same


More to the point, I’m angry that we’re having this discussion when we have far more interesting things to talk about right now


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 02:13:42 PM
Ok, f*** this. I'm gone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Ok, f*** this. I'm gone.



If you are, I am as well, but I'd rather us try to take this via PM and at least try to fix all this :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 31, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Jay, just my opinion, but sometimes a simple apology is best in these situations--qualifying it even a little bit tends to bring out the nit-pickers.

"Honored guests" are entitled to exercise some additional demands and expectations. Some will do this more than others, just as some of us will tend to be more aggressive and flamboyant in our mode of expression here. I agree with Billy that we should endeavor to be courteous to all, so long as we don't all become so nice that it becomes deadly dull!! 
:hat

Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all who post here. There have been a number of great threads over at the other place, but this is still the place to be IMNSHO. Long may it remain that way. Remember 2020 is destined to be a magical Beach Boys year for so many reasons. But I think whenever we reference the soon-upcoming year, it should always be notated as follows, just to reinforce our special relationship with it...

Welcome to 20/20, everyone! ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2019, 04:00:24 PM


"Honored guests" are entitled to exercise some additional demands and expectations.
No, they aren't. They are human beings just like us.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 04:07:51 PM
Agreed...but let's please put this aside and get back to the boxed set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 06:48:12 PM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 31, 2019, 08:19:49 PM
Everything from the sunflower era


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 08:44:20 PM
I have a feeling that we’re going to hear a song we’ve never heard before...that’s what excites me the most.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Willy Wilson on December 31, 2019, 09:46:37 PM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

Three things if I may... All of Sunflower vocals-only. Better quality versions of ‘It’s a New Day’ and ‘Sound of Free’.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 31, 2019, 09:56:08 PM
Vocals only would be ace...I completely would be down with that. I’ve long held that Sunflower is the band’s most harmonically rich album, and hearing it presented as such would likely uncover a treasure trove of previously unheard backup parts.

I look forward to hearing more Brian in general.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on December 31, 2019, 11:00:49 PM
I'd be down for literally anything from 1969-71 (or any outtakes from the Beach Boys, really), but what intrigues me the most is Fred Vail Country Album. Apparently the vocals are not strong and the album is incomplete, but it'd be a real pleasure for me to get to listen to one of the rare occasions where Brian attempted country music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on January 01, 2020, 06:05:33 AM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on January 01, 2020, 07:02:53 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

A HQ version of the original mix of Lady, the original version of Loop De Loop, alt lyrics Forever, possibly an alternate mix of This Whole World with the guitars more audible and the Eastern Airlines version, My Solution... The list goes on with all the stuff we know exists but hasn't been bootlegged.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on January 01, 2020, 07:32:49 AM
A decent quality stereo version of "Sound Of Free" would be high on my wish list for the set along with "Settle Down" and "Behold the Night" from the Dennis and Darryl Dragon aborted lp. Also, Sunflower released with the quality and stereo quality that my old Statside import lp has... So far I haven't heard that quality on CD (hissy hissy)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on January 01, 2020, 07:45:40 AM
Also, Sunflower released with the quality and stereo quality that my old Statside import lp has...

That (i.e. the UK issue) was my first copy of the album, and I'm reminded now of an odd fact -- "Got To Know The Woman" and "Deirdre" are reversed in the track order on that version. I wonder what that was all about.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on January 01, 2020, 07:53:04 AM
What I am most excited about hearing, if it exists...

Another mix/version of WIBNTLA
Some rocking live material
Any unreleased DW songs


Question for Mr. Desper:

If it has been discussed elsewhere I missed it, but I was curious if you have any memories of "I'm Going Your Way" that are worth sharing?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 08:07:03 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

A HQ version of the original mix of Lady, the original version of Loop De Loop, alt lyrics Forever, possibly an alternate mix of This Whole World with the guitars more audible and the Eastern Airlines version, My Solution... The list goes on with all the stuff we know exists but hasn't been bootlegged.


Completely forgot about the airline version...good one


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on January 01, 2020, 08:15:04 AM
I have a feeling that we’re going to hear a song we’ve never heard before...that’s what excites me the most.

I think there's going to be songs as in plural. The Bedroom Tapes article say that there were A LOT of uncatalogued sessions found around this time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 09:43:50 AM
...I completely forgot about that, although I usually think of the period after the one covered in the set when I think of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JakeH on January 01, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!

No black-and-white answer to this question will ever appear. All we can do is theorize. My basic theory is that by this time the Beach Boys had become a closed-system. Brian, a few years back, had what seems to be a final (initial?) opportunity to work with (produce) outside singers-vocalists with actual talent. This was Redwood/Three Dog Night in 1967, and Brian of course did this on the sly... he was thwarted in this effort by the band/Family, and he also caved-in and allowed himself to be thwarted.  Brian's thing with the Beach Boys - his ability to work with them in the way he wanted to - was exhausted, or depleted by the end of the 1960s. (or at least mostly so).  He obviously still had an itch to produce or work in contexts outside the Beach Boys, but he knew (or felt, on some deeper level) that he couldn't do it; that it was never going to work, and he had to remain a "Beach Boy."

So according to this theory, the answer is: no, Brian couldn't have reached out to an actual, legitimate country singer.  One thing he could do, though,  is safely mess around with trusted, non-threatening insiders like Fred Vail, American Spring (members of the Beach Boy family) and, for instance, whatever he was doing with Rocky Pamplin in the late seventies. This is not serious stuff.  My guess about the "Fred tapes" is that they sound like American Spring's "Tennessee Waltz" but with Fred singing... Who knows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 01, 2020, 10:38:22 PM
According to the Peter Ames Carlin book, Brian’s reputation wasn’t the greatest in the industry at this point in time, so that may add to it.

Then again, the correct answer may be the simplest... he was just doing him a favor


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on January 02, 2020, 06:20:17 AM
I would love an official release of My Solution! Although I'm not sure if it was recorded the same year or after the Surfs Up lp. I'm excited that Carnival is out! Also Out In the Country, another mix of 4th of July.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 02, 2020, 07:14:18 AM
The question is why Brian chose to produce Fred! I mean-couldn’t he have reached out to an actual country singer! Sort of a perverse decision-just like his choosing jack reiley to sing tree a year later!

No black-and-white answer to this question will ever appear. All we can do is theorize. My basic theory is that by this time the Beach Boys had become a closed-system. Brian, a few years back, had what seems to be a final (initial?) opportunity to work with (produce) outside singers-vocalists with actual talent. This was Redwood/Three Dog Night in 1967, and Brian of course did this on the sly... he was thwarted in this effort by the band/Family, and he also caved-in and allowed himself to be thwarted.  Brian's thing with the Beach Boys - his ability to work with them in the way he wanted to - was exhausted, or depleted by the end of the 1960s. (or at least mostly so).  He obviously still had an itch to produce or work in contexts outside the Beach Boys, but he knew (or felt, on some deeper level) that he couldn't do it; that it was never going to work, and he had to remain a "Beach Boy."

So according to this theory, the answer is: no, Brian couldn't have reached out to an actual, legitimate country singer.  One thing he could do, though,  is safely mess around with trusted, non-threatening insiders like Fred Vail, American Spring (members of the Beach Boy family) and, for instance, whatever he was doing with Rocky Pamplin in the late seventies. This is not serious stuff.  My guess about the "Fred tapes" is that they sound like American Spring's "Tennessee Waltz" but with Fred singing... Who knows

Brian clearly had a penchant for working with artists/projects seemingly on a lark from time to time. The above theories are interesting to chew on.

There's also the possibility, by 1970 or so, that Brian may have lacked the self-confidence as a producer to produce a *major* artist even if one had materialized for him to work with.

In between "major" and the fluke insider examples like Fred Vail would be something like those sessions during this time with Don Goldberg that only materialized several years back. He was an unknown, but was also not previously an "insider" in the organization. The band couldn't have been too threatened by Brian working with Goldberg; Goldberg brought two of his own songs (one of which Mike seemingly enthusiastically tackled himself), and did a version of a BB song ("Out in the Country") that was ultimately so unmemorable to the Beach Boys that nobody could remember years later who even wrote the thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 02, 2020, 07:26:25 AM
Wait, what's this about an "airline" version of "This Whole World"??? How have I not heard it??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on January 02, 2020, 08:41:05 AM
Wait, what's this about an "airline" version of "This Whole World"??? How have I not heard it??

A version of the song was recorded on 3/12/71 for an Eastern Airlines commercial.  I don't think it's ever been booted.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on January 02, 2020, 08:45:51 AM
Speaking of the set...

What is one thing you guys are the most excited about hearing?

I'm not sure if there are any, but session tracks for 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree' would be incredible - and a backing track, and a vocals only (especially of that outro).

The extended version of WIBNTLA. Brian's piano demo of 'Til I Die' should be heard by everybody - it's just such a chill piano track...also, any early demo versions with vocals would be awesome (if they exist). I can't even imagine all the goodies we'll get with this!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: superunison on January 02, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
Where is the tambourine in the second verse of I'm Going Your Way that I've heard in booted versions? Also is this version a bit slower than the booted version (I'm assuming that this one is the tape at the correct speed). 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr Fulton on January 03, 2020, 03:09:44 AM
looking forward to a possible  version of Tree with a Dennis lead vocal


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 03, 2020, 04:29:00 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 03, 2020, 04:34:27 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on January 03, 2020, 05:49:55 AM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 10, 2020, 04:33:44 PM
I'd love to hear more material like Where Is She, Walkin', You're As Cool As Can Be, any Dennis songs, early versions/demos, etc. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonicVolcano on January 11, 2020, 02:56:37 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on January 11, 2020, 07:11:28 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonicVolcano on January 12, 2020, 10:46:39 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


That would be amazing :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on January 13, 2020, 03:53:00 AM
Yes it would- I will buy all the live versions of Wild Honey, Marcella, and Jumpin' Jack Flash they will sell me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bill M on January 14, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Yes it would- I will buy all the live versions of Wild Honey, Marcella, and Jumpin' Jack Flash they will sell me.

I will gladly buy any & all live versions of anything by the BB from the early to mid 70s.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DennysDrums83 on January 15, 2020, 07:02:21 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


I hope it includes River Song, Here She Comes, and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 17, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
I hope we get some release date news about this soon!  Can't wait too long.  :bw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 18, 2020, 11:27:23 AM
Looking forward to any live material.

I really hope the 72-73 era will be covered as well some day. They were such a great live act back then.

Mark Linett has said that a box for In Concert is a possibiltiy


That would be sweet.  That early 70's era had some considerably good live moments.  Having Blondie and Ricky in the band really helped give the band a little more street cred and edge.  Would love to hear more from that period.  👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on January 18, 2020, 04:24:56 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on January 18, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 20, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on January 21, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.
And there is that note on the back of Sunflower explaining how every voice, every instrument was recorded in stereo - not just a bunch of monophonic signals panned left, center and right.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on February 08, 2020, 09:53:05 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 08, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 08, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!

What's this? I've never heard of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 08, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Remeber we thought this was coming out at Christmas 😂😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 08, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.

Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.

Years ago someone told me that Bruce recorded his vocal in stereo -- in that he had two microphones in front of him, each panned to one side...which might explain why it sounds weird.
And there is that note on the back of Sunflower explaining how every voice, every instrument was recorded in stereo - not just a bunch of monophonic signals panned left, center and right.

*every* instrument and voice...maybe not so much, but certainly more of that than before.  A lot of the vocals were done with the AKG C24 stereo microphone which allows perfect XY diaphragm alignment every time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on February 08, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
The Coca Cola ad .... Cool Cool   ....Cola!

What's this? I've never heard of it.

Pops up in discussion occasionally and mentioned by Al and I think Bruce in the Endless Harmony Documentary. I recall Al sings a bit as it’s based on the song Cool Cool Water and he says something like “I’d really like to hear it again as it’s so good”.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on February 09, 2020, 12:58:54 AM
First and foremost, I'd love to hear more Brian stuff from that time, whatever it may be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on February 09, 2020, 06:46:55 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 09, 2020, 07:26:20 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.

The official release is actually from a vintage edit of those two or three rough mix parts; the edit was done by Rick Henn's brother-in-law Dennis Dragon, using good old fashioned razor-and-splice techniques!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on February 09, 2020, 08:16:19 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 09, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
I want a complete new mix of the Surfs Up LP. There are several spots where it sounds muddy.
The vocals on Long Promised Road are extremely low Quality. Also, the vocals on Disney Girls are really weird when played in headphones. Its almost like there on the right side more than the left.
Also, anything about Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Our Sweet Love

If they could somehow digitally fix the "Shunshine" line I would be eternally grateful. Absolutely wonderful song but I can't ignore that flub.

Didn't Carl ultimately veto putting that song on an album because of that flub?  Couldn't he just have just recorded a new vocal?
I believe the final mix was made in 1969, and 24 years later, in 1993, when they were working on the Good Vibrations set, they didn’t have access to the original tracks. It was eventually released in that state in 1998. But, 22 years later, maybe the tracks have been found. I haven’t heard anything about that, but one can dream. But yes, Carl didn’t want it on the GV set

Not a final mix, just two (or three?) rough mixes that had to be spliced together. That's why there's some weird stereo experimentation going on with the Orban comb filter, it was never meant for any kind of release. Last I heard the multitrack with the Beach Boys' vocals is missing from the vaults - they have the backing track, plus some extra instrumental overdubs and the a capella intro, but a remix wouldn't be possible.

The official release is actually from a vintage edit of those two or three rough mix parts; the edit was done by Rick Henn's brother-in-law Dennis Dragon, using good old fashioned razor-and-splice techniques!

Wait, wasn't that done in the early 90s? I guess authentic tape splicing may as well count as vintage!

According to Rick Henn's recollections in ESQ, at some point after the "SOMS" sessions, he took his rough mixes over to DD's studio (Rick was married to DD's sister Kathy Dragon), and DD did the edits. He doesn't say exactly when, but I'm thinking this wasn't too long after the sessions, possibly within a few years at the most. My understanding is that they almost used that edited mix for the '93 box set (I actually heard it in the fall of '92, when David Leaf played it over the phone for Domenic Priore and me), and that this is what was ultimately used for the releases in '98 and 2013.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 13, 2020, 11:48:06 AM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 13, 2020, 12:27:36 PM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.

I could easily imagine that the powers that be are waiting for a little time to pass for the media to have less reason to write about Mike "I use the brand name to support people who kill animals for fun" Love, because he (and tangentially, his modern day antics) are sadly tied into the release of this set, like it or not.

All the more reason to just release this set - and all others like it - quietly (like the 20/20 set). Unfortunately, anything that puts *less* of a microscope on the brand at this point in time is a good thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 13, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 13, 2020, 01:41:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.

If they release it in late August or September - even if it's in actuality due to these awful circumstances - the reason can still be marketed as having been timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Sunflower's August 31, 1970 release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 13, 2020, 02:03:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed into later in the year, or even next year.

If they release it in late August or September - even if it's in actuality due to these awful circumstances - the reason can still be marketed as having been timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Sunflower's August 31, 1970 release.
That would actually be a smart move. If course I would hope to have a big box set of unreleased recordings sooner rather than later, but it would be a good move to the it in with an important event, such as a 50th anniversary. Especially if they wanted to style it in a similar fashion to the Smile set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 13, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
what i really want to know is if they are going to release the Fred Vail country thing (they can do a release with Omnivore records just like they did with the Murry Wilson and Snow stuff)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on February 13, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
I'll take whatever I can get ASAP.   :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on February 13, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
So, we can assume we are not getting anything this month? Unless its just a surprise digital set. But we would have heard something from BRI if there was a physical set coming in the next couple weeks.

I could easily imagine that the powers that be are waiting for a little time to pass for the media to have less reason to write about Mike "I use the brand name to support people who kill animals for fun" Love, because he (and tangentially, his modern day antics) are sadly tied into the release of this set, like it or not.

All the more reason to just release this set - and all others like it - quietly (like the 20/20 set). Unfortunately, anything that puts *less* of a microscope on the brand at this point in time is a good thing.

This is why we can't have nice things.  :-\



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 13, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
I thought maybe August 28, around the same time as Sunflower actually came out back in 1970. But no matter what, we have to get something this year, BRI is not gonna let those copyrights just go


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 14, 2020, 09:02:07 AM
If this set is delayed until later this year, it will give all of us mean fans a chance to apologize to Mike Love for bullying him... :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on February 14, 2020, 09:04:52 AM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 14, 2020, 09:07:39 AM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?

Sure to sell a million units?  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 14, 2020, 03:54:16 PM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?
Nothing confirmed. Only that something was in the planning stages for February.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 14, 2020, 04:20:04 PM
Didn’t someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?
Nothing confirmed. Only that something was in the planning stages for February.
yeah but it was only a rumour said by Bruce, nothing coming from Boyd or Linett sadly :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on February 15, 2020, 08:26:53 AM
There are the rumours that Al has been listening to some on the tour bus...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DreadfulDanG on February 15, 2020, 11:20:40 AM
Here's my wishlist (or shopping list!) for this set:

What Can the Matter Be?
You Never Give Me Your Money
'Til I Die 1969 demo (or any early versions for that matter, especially if the fabled version with 'positive' lyrics exists).
I'm Going Your Way - just a nice, clean mixed and mastered version, please!
My Solution - as above
Won't You Tell Me
Telephone Backgrounds (On a Clear Day)

...and any stuff Dennis was working on during this time frame, like It's a New Day and Behold the Night. I think everything else that was slated for his solo album came right after Surf's Up sessions wrapped so probably wouldn't belong here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 15, 2020, 12:18:01 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on February 15, 2020, 12:31:52 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on February 15, 2020, 01:26:34 PM
Here's my wishlist (or shopping list!) for this set:

What Can the Matter Be?
You Never Give Me Your Money
'Til I Die 1969 demo (or any early versions for that matter, especially if the fabled version with 'positive' lyrics exists).
I'm Going Your Way - just a nice, clean mixed and mastered version, please!
My Solution - as above
Won't You Tell Me
Telephone Backgrounds (On a Clear Day)

...and any stuff Dennis was working on during this time frame, like It's a New Day and Behold the Night. I think everything else that was slated for his solo album came right after Surf's Up sessions wrapped so probably wouldn't belong here.

The positive lyrics Til I Die does exist. I doesn't circulate though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on February 15, 2020, 01:34:47 PM
The positive lyrics Til I Die does exist. I doesn't circulate though.

This might be #1 on my list!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 15, 2020, 01:45:36 PM
There is an interview with Brian where he says that My Solution was going to be on Love You. Does a version from 1976-1977 exist?
Or were  they just going to use the 1970 version


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 15, 2020, 06:48:39 PM
I imagine it would have been the 1970 version. Considering they used "Good Time" for the album, "My Solution" would have had a similar overall sound. Kind of. lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on February 15, 2020, 09:11:17 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 15, 2020, 11:50:19 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on February 16, 2020, 12:21:52 PM
Well, remember, Brian was producing TWO new albums for the BBs at the time - one to be called simply New Album, and the other to be called Brian Loves You. The former was never released, and there was never a definite lineup, but that's supposedly where things like "Tomboy" and "Solution" would have gone. By the time Love You was released, he was on to Adult Child (which, of course, was rejected by the label).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 18, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
It's the Dennis stuff that interests me most, but having said that, there are so many gems that show up once you trawl the archives. Things we never knew even existed before (well maybe just me).

 I'm thinking of Peaches right now as I type.

Was it widely known, for example that "New Song" evolved into "Transcendental Meditation" before the 1968 CE release? It certainly wasn't known when that first hit the internet in the 90s.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 06:18:08 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 06:20:18 AM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 19, 2020, 08:07:19 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on February 19, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?
After. He and Christine worked at Tom Murphy's Track Record after this date. I produced an artist friend of mine at Track. On a shelf in the control room was one of their 2" master reels. My friend remembers the tape, too. The date on his tape box is March 28, 1982.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 19, 2020, 11:04:43 AM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.

Yes, but my point was that several of the songs that were going to be reused were all from the 1969-1970 period.
Also, I forgot that Good Time was on the Spring album from 1972.
And Ding Dang is clearly one of the examples of Brian just really wanting to get a song out in the world. It was recorded in 73, but Brian was obsessed with that song for years


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 19, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
I heard a version (just a backing track) of "My Solution" that was supposedly from 1980, but yeah, I'm guessing if they were going to put it on TBBLY, it'd simply be the 1970 version, to give "Good Time" some company.
Yeah. But also in the same interview he says that Hey Little Tomboy was going to be on Love You.
And the album was also called Brians In Love, and he wanted it out by late September 76. And none of those things happened.
Strangely, he talks about Tomboy as if he knows it’s a weird song, and he knows the problem with it.
But, 1976 was a different time than 2020, so...

Also, why did Brian want to keep recycling old songs around this time?
Susie Cincinnati from 15BO was recorded in 1970, released as the B side to Add Some Music, then released again as another B Side in 1974.
Back Home off 15BO was originally written in 1963.
Obviously Good Time was old.
And Adult/Child’s track list had 3 older 1970 songs for consideration, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay.
And for the Christmas album worked on for 77, Santa’s Got an Airplane was based off of a song from 1969-70.
So did Brian genuinely want to get these songs out there?
Was it because his voice was clearer then?
Or did he not have a lot of confidence in his 76-77 material?

While the BBs made unequivocally weird moves as far as re-using *already released* material on occasion (e.g. “Susie Cincinnati”), the re-use of unreleased material (both re-recording old songs and even using elements of older recordings) is more common among musical artists, especially when we’re talking about re-using material only a few years old at the time.

One of the countless great things Mark Lewisohn pointed out in the midst of talking about his first volume of his Beatles biography is that you really have to get out of the frame of mind of thinking of a band’s or artist’s or person’s history based on LP releases, or even particularly in a strictly chronological yearly fashion. While Lewisohn may have been referring more to the story of the Beatles’ *lives* rather than simply their music career, I think this rule can be carried over to some degree to a musical career as well.

So, while in some cases the band probably did just desperately raid the recent section of their vaults for new album material, it’s also possible in many cases that when the band or Brian were using, say, “Hey Little Tomboy” for “MIU”, they weren’t always looking at it as “I guess we’ll have to use an outtake to fill this album out”. Instead, it was “here is my catalog of material that I’ve written and/or recorded; what can I continue to work on?”

Surely other bands/artists have used old material and we never even know it, because there’s no visibility or knowledge regarding what’s in their vaults. Random example is several more recent Jeff Lynne/ELO projects. Nobody would know when the stuff came from, and in a few cases Lynne has mentioned the vintage of a specific track here or there.

Yes, but my point was that several of the songs that were going to be reused were all from the 1969-1970 period.
Also, I forgot that Good Time was on the Spring album from 1972.
And Ding Dang is clearly one of the examples of Brian just really wanting to get a song out in the world. It was recorded in 73, but Brian was obsessed with that song for years

I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.

Specifically as to "Good Time", I always figured it did have a *relatively* similar sparse arrangement as the tracks on "Love You."

As for "Ding Dang", I don't think that needs much explanation. It's one of countless "Shortenin' Bread" off-shoots/variants Brian had rolling around in his head.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 19, 2020, 03:03:36 PM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 19, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
If "My Solution" were to be released, I'd prefer it to be in two versions; one with Brian's "narration" and one without. Well, having a third version with just the instrumental backing would be cool too.  ;D


There's an instrumental track from around the "Keepin' the summer alive"-sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk 

The "My Solution" backing track does come from mid-1980, which would post-date the "Keepin' the Summer Alive" sessions, and would be part of the often-overlooked era that I find fascinating: The scattered, seemingly haphazard sessions that took place after KTSA and before BB '85. C-man posted a list of some of this material with recording dates a year or so ago:

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song


Stevie continues to fascinate me.

Was it written/recorded before or after Denny and Christine broke up?
After. He and Christine worked at Tom Murphy's Track Record after this date. I produced an artist friend of mine at Track. On a shelf in the control room was one of their 2" master reels. My friend remembers the tape, too. The date on his tape box is March 28, 1982.

I read about some of those tracks a few years ago. I still for the life of me can't  figure out how Shortnin' Bread and My Solution were meant to go
together.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 20, 2020, 12:14:02 AM
Strangely enough, I can!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 06:23:23 AM
I read about some of those tracks a few years ago. I still for the life of me can't  figure out how Shortnin' Bread and My Solution were meant to go
together.

If you hear those 1980 backing tracks, it kinda starts to make *some* sense, if only in that they have a very similar recording ambience having presumably been recorded at the same time. But I’d say I can only really imagine as more of a medley, with one song simply leading into the next.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 07:28:52 AM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.

While not officially credited as such, "Walkin' the Line" seems to crib a noticeable bit from Al's "Looking Down the Coast".

Also, if one believes Dennis Wilson and possibly Garby Leon helped write "City Blues", then that's another example.

Brian's "On Christmas Day" is essentially a partial remake of "Belles of Paris/Bells of Christmas", though who wrote what on the older BB tracks (which includes Brian, Al, and Mike as I recall) is unclear.

Mike did this a few times it would seem. The outtake "Tricia" sounds to me to be a partial re-write of "Sandy/Sherry She Needs Me".

Rather infamously, "Summer of Love" is the last in a long line of tracks riffing on the same deal: Child of Winter/Mike Come Back To LA/Wontcha Come Out Tonight/Some of Your Love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 20, 2020, 08:56:37 AM


I would imagine part of the explanation would simply be that, by 1976/77, if Brian was going to mine old stuff that he remembered/was more relatively heavily involved in, that 69/70 time frame would be the last era where that was the case in any substantial way.

There weren't a ton of nearly or fully completed Brian-centric (meaning mainly written and produced by Brian, with prominent Brian vocals) *unreleased* tracks between 1971 and 1975.

Brian was at the helm for 15BO, Love You, and Adult Child, and it's not surprising that when he needed (or wanted) to dig into older tracks to use, he wasn't reaching for "Hard Times" or "My Love Lives On" or "Carry Me Home", etc. He went for stuff he had been relatively heavily involved in.
 

While we have many examples of the band taking a Brian fragment or partially-finished song, and then working on it (with little to none further Brian involvement) to completion, do we have any examples of the opposite? Meaning, Brian taking a song idea by a different BB member, then working on it on his own and taking it through to completion with little or no involvement of that originator? I guess an example *might* be Sloop John B, which was just an idea for a cover by Al, that Brian seemingly on his own went down the creative rabbit hole with, mostly on his own.

While not officially credited as such, "Walkin' the Line" seems to crib a noticeable bit from Al's "Looking Down the Coast".

Also, if one believes Dennis Wilson and possibly Garby Leon helped write "City Blues", then that's another example.

Brian's "On Christmas Day" is essentially a partial remake of "Belles of Paris/Bells of Christmas", though who wrote what on the older BB tracks (which includes Brian, Al, and Mike as I recall) is unclear.

Mike did this a few times it would seem. The outtake "Tricia" sounds to me to be a partial re-write of "Sandy/Sherry She Needs Me".

Rather infamously, "Summer of Love" in the last in a long line of tracks riffing on the same deal: Child of Winter/Mike Come Back To LA/Wontcha Come Out Tonight/Some of Your Love.

Thanks for that list, HJ. Very cool.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on February 20, 2020, 12:12:58 PM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.

I've got nothing to base this on and I might be totally wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the version of "She Believes In Love Again" from the TWGMTR sessions is an overdubbed version of Bruce's solo version from the sampler.

Also to add onto Bruce's obsession with his small list of songs he's written, lets not forget his re-recording of "Disney Girls" as a solo track in 1975 (for some reason credited to Papa Doo Run Run), only to be re-recorded again for his 1977 solo album Going Public and then again in the '90s for his orchestral project. Gotta say, Bruce has written a few tunes and he definitely tries to wring everything he can out of them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on February 20, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
RE: "STEVIE" --

I told Stevie Nicks the backstory of the song and got a copy of it to her. She was amazed and had never heard a thing about it. She kept asking "Brian wrote it -- not Dennis?" She was at a loss because she said, "I don't think Brian ever said a single word to me -- ever."

She added that she once caught Dennis perched in a tree watching her in her bedroom. . . . . 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on February 20, 2020, 01:46:35 PM
RE: "STEVIE" --

I told Stevie Nicks the backstory of the song and got a copy of it to her. She was amazed and had never heard a thing about it. She kept asking "Brian wrote it -- not Dennis?" She was at a loss because she said, "I don't think Brian ever said a single word to me -- ever."

She added that she once caught Dennis perched in a tree watching her in her bedroom. . . . .  

Wow. Maybe Brian had a huge crush on Stevie (like the rest of the world), but was too intimidated to talk to her.

"Stevie" seems to continue the tradition started with "My Diane" where the love or fixation that one Wilson brother had for a woman was oddly handed off to a different Wilson brother to sing the lead vocal on. Only in the case of Stevie, maybe Brian wrote the lyrics from Denny's perspective, but sang them himself? Impossible to know. To think about both songs from a psychological perspective is a fascinating mindf*ck. Maybe it was too personal and embarrassing which caused the change in singer.

There's *got* to be some fascinating backstory with "Stevie", both in terms of content and how it came to be, and it's especially a historically significant song being the only time Denny produced Brian. Can't believe it hasn't been released considering how good it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2020, 01:56:26 PM
Funny thing is that I remember someone online years ago pitching the idea, seemingly partly seriously, that the song was about someone else, even Stevie Wonder. What else could it be? Desper? Kalinich? Stephen Love?

I guess the song takes on a new dimension in that context.....

I can't imagine it being anyone else but Nicks of course, regardless of whose "point of view" the song is supposed to be from.

Regarding all of the purported Dennis/Christine McVie recordings, I'm curious: A) How they've never surfaced for the most part, even though some pretty obscure stuff ("Cocaine/Hamburger Tape", etc.) has surfaced. and B) How substantive/finished the material is. How much is noodling/vamping, how much is backing tracks or just piano tracks with no melody/vocals, and what might be in even a somewhat "finished" state.

Also, C) Do they *really* exist, like multiple studio reels of completely unheard collaborations between the two?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on February 20, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
Regarding all of the purported Dennis/Christine McVie recordings, I'm curious: A) How they've never surfaced for the most part, even though some pretty obscure stuff ("Cocaine/Hamburger Tape", etc.) has surfaced. and B) How substantive/finished the material is. How much is noodling/vamping, how much is backing tracks or just piano tracks with no melody/vocals, and what might be in even a somewhat "finished" state.

Also, C) Do they *really* exist, like multiple studio reels of completely unheard collaborations between the two?

The Dennis/Christine material to me, is something I'm filing under "amazing if true" but the thing is what could really be there? As a variation of what the poster above says, is there anything beyond noodling around? And if so, if they were cutting actual songs, were the actually finished. I assume whatever it is, it's not bells and whistles. So at best, hopefully some piano pieces with a decent vocal. And I don't see any duets. Is Dennis early '80s voice and Christine's voice even compatible? It'd be interesting to see what's up with all this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 20, 2020, 03:42:30 PM
To generalize, I'd say Brian has tended to take musical riffs/motifs/bits from the past, usually of his own writing, and re-work them into something else. He has also of course remade his own finished compositions (e.g. the GIOMH album, etc.).

Dennis tended to do this sometimes as well (e.g. "Moonshine" vs. "Holy Man", etc.).

Whereas, Al has tended to workshop actual recordings sometimes for decades ("Loop de Loop", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Waves of Love") and then also has re-recorded old unreleased compositions ("And I Always Will", "Looking Down the Coast", etc.).

Meanwhile, Mike has often gone the route of just re-recording both BB hits and his own solo stuff over and over and over.

Carl has had so little output that it's hard to know much of what he may have reworked of his own.

Bruce seems to fixate on old tracks too. It was seemingly partly if not mostly his idea to use "When Girls Get Together" on KTSA ten years after the fact. He even toyed with putting 1963's "The Lord's Prayer" on KTSA. He of course infamously re-worked "Here Comes the Night", and also revamped his own "Ten Years Harmony" as "Endless Harmony." He has messed around with "She Believes In Love Again" multiple times after releasing it on BB '85, recording a solo version that popped up on that weird CD sampler a decade or so ago, and supposedly working on it with Foskett during the TWGMTR BB sessions.

I've got nothing to base this on and I might be totally wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the version of "She Believes In Love Again" from the TWGMTR sessions is an overdubbed version of Bruce's solo version from the sampler.

Also to add onto Bruce's obsession with his small list of songs he's written, lets not forget his re-recording of "Disney Girls" as a solo track in 1975 (for some reason credited to Papa Doo Run Run), only to be re-recorded again for his 1977 solo album Going Public and then again in the '90s for his orchestral project. Gotta say, Bruce has written a few tunes and he definitely tries to wring everything he can out of them.
Excuse me?
Bruce Has written every single song that has ever existed. He said it so himself, remember?
“ I've been alive forever
And I wrote the very first song
I put the words and the melodies together
I am music and I write the songs”
So remember, there is no songs written by Brian Wilson. Or Mike Love.
Not even sure why Mike went after Brian for writing credits, it’s clear Bruce did everything 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on February 20, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
I spoke very briefly with Bruce yesterday before a show and he mentioned a Sunflower release coming out in summer. That's all I got.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 20, 2020, 06:57:14 PM
I spoke very briefly with Bruce yesterday before a show and he mentioned a Sunflower release coming out in summer. That's all I got.
Yeh! Some news.
I didn’t think it would come out this month.
My guess is a basic set in July or August, with a remastered Sunflower, and another disk or 2 with extras. Around 60-70 tracks in total.
Then, in December we will get a digital exclusive with more live performances and session excerpts.
Very similar to the 2017 sets


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 21, 2020, 03:22:38 PM
Strangely enough, I can!
Show me. Record a mash-up of the two songs together(from scratch), as you hear/imagine it.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 21, 2020, 03:40:17 PM
If i recall correctly they also recorded a remake/re-recording of Can't Wait Too Long during that period/year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on February 21, 2020, 06:54:10 PM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

Disc One (remastered/remixed... nothing on CD yet compares to Desper's master of the British release in quality)
 1. "Cottonfields" (Al's single version in stereo)  3:15
 2. "Slip-On Through"   2:17
 3. "This Whole World"   1:56
 4. "Add Some Music to Your Day"   3:34
 5. "Got to Know the Woman" 2:41
 6. "Deirdre"  3:27
 7. "It's About Time"  2:55
 8. "Tears in the Morning" 4:07
 9. "All I Wanna Do" 2:34
10. "Forever" 2:40
11. "Our Sweet Love" 2:38
12. "At My Window" 2:30
13. "Cool, Cool Water"   5:03
bonus tracks
14. Breakaway 2:56
15. Celebrate The News 3:07
16. Susie Cinncinati ('70 b-side mix) 3:05
17. Fallin In Love  3:02 (yeah, keep the 2012 version)
18. Sounds Of Free (stereo, somehow, sounds so out of place in mono) 2:26
19. Good Time ('70 mix) 2:50
20. When Girls Get Together ('70 mix) 3:31
Total length:   61:07

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)

 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on February 21, 2020, 09:10:01 PM
Perhaps they could release the whole "Landlocked" album on vinyl to coincide with the box set and promote it as a "lost album".

Even though it's an album that didn't exist in the first place, it will probably help gather more attention from rock magazines and casual Beach Boys fans alike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on February 21, 2020, 09:10:40 PM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

...

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
09. “I’m Going Your Way”
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)


You missed one... ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on February 22, 2020, 08:00:29 AM
If the Feel Flows box dies and we get an expanded Sunflower release, A two-disc set like  this would be nice:

...

Disc Two (associated tracks)
01. "San Miguel"
02. "Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane)"
03. "Carnival"
04. "I Just Got My Pay"
05. "Walkin'"
06. "Games Two Can Play"
07. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"
08. "Back Home"
09. “I’m Going Your Way”
+++ (let's get this one over an hour of tracks too!!)


You missed one... ;D


I'm sure I missed a lot more then one  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 22, 2020, 04:36:45 PM
Perhaps they could release the whole "Landlocked" album on vinyl to coincide with the box set and promote it as a "lost album".

Even though it's an album that didn't exist in the first place, it will probably help gather more attention from rock magazines and casual Beach Boys fans alike.
Landlocked was the original name of Surfs Up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on February 23, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
I'm hoping it will include "Feel Flows" with the "surface joy" lyrics.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 24, 2020, 03:33:43 AM
I'm hoping it will include "Feel Flows" with the "surface joy" lyrics.
I totally forgot about that! If you listen very closely, you can hear a voice buried in the second verse that seems to be singing another lyric that doesn't fit with the "main" voice singing the second verse.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 24, 2020, 06:42:00 AM
I wouldn't even begin to try to construct what I think would be an ideal 1970/71 set, because the whole idea is that there is stuff in the vaults we haven't heard and/or don't know about.

I don't particularly need another simple remastering of the same mixes/tracks we already have seen released. *Remixes* would be of more interest, but even then there is *so much* completely unheard material/songs, *that* should be the focus.

Ideally, a set is big enough to focus on a lot of different types of material. But at the end of the day, we need more "I'm Going Your Way" and that sort of stuff, not another remastering of "I Just Got My Pay".

If we got a 4-5 disc boxed set, I'd hate for like two of the discs to be hogged with another re-re-remastering of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" and then another remastering of all the non-album tracks that have *already* been released on the GV box, the MIC set, etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 24, 2020, 04:19:14 PM
My main interest is hearing any previously unheard Brian vocals,especially during this period and the one immediately after


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on February 25, 2020, 03:39:43 AM
I wonder if the hadwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, which were "The father's life is done, And the children carry on" which supossedly would have occured right before the "Child, Child Child" coda were ever recorded? That would be an interseting find if indeed they were.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 26, 2020, 07:11:02 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on February 27, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."
Yes. And he plays new mixes of San Miguel, and the back track for the single version of Cotton Fields.
As Brian would say, it was “outta sight.”
If you are going to watch it, and you just want to here the music:
San Miguel: 3:02:49
Cotton Fields: 3:34:37
The hopeful fall release: 3:38:55


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on February 27, 2020, 10:48:17 AM
San Miguel is such a great track.  I am surprised it never made it onto Sunflower or Surf's Up.  My one gripe with it is that they don't repeat the catchy chorus/second verse. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 27, 2020, 12:01:20 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."
Yes. And he plays new mixes of San Miguel, and the back track for the single version of Cotton Fields.
As Brian would say, it was “outta sight.”
If you are going to watch it, and you just want to here the music:
San Miguel: 3:02:49
Cotton Fields: 3:34:37
The hopeful fall release: 3:38:55

Yeah, the backing tracks of that tunes are so amazing!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 27, 2020, 05:57:27 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on February 28, 2020, 04:48:03 PM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release



yeah, maybe they're going to release it 'til early December


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on February 29, 2020, 10:24:52 AM
In case anyone won't watch Mark Linett's interview video as referenced in the relevant thread, he says that a "large project" is tentatively scheduled for "the fall."

Nice time for a release



yeah, maybe they're going to release it 'til early December
They'll be competing with the new Let It Be movie and box set plus there is always a slim chance of an All Things Must Pass 50th release (but totally a hopeful guess by me).  Going to be an interesting fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on February 29, 2020, 12:01:48 PM
I wouldn't even begin to try to construct what I think would be an ideal 1970/71 set, because the whole idea is that there is stuff in the vaults we haven't heard and/or don't know about.

I don't particularly need another simple remastering of the same mixes/tracks we already have seen released. *Remixes* would be of more interest, but even then there is *so much* completely unheard material/songs, *that* should be the focus.


Remixes would be sweet.  The Beatles albums that were remixed in the last few years have been really nice.  But I'm sure this box set will have a cornucopia of content.  I'm hopeful we'll get an official announcement of this box set in the next few months at least.   Really excited about this. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 05, 2020, 04:54:38 PM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 05, 2020, 05:47:05 PM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available
yeah, i think that they're going to release My Solution this year, Capitol's main priority is releasing archival BB's stuff due to the 2012 european law 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 06, 2020, 12:08:52 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.
2 of these tracks, Walking and Thank Him, have since been released on the 2013 and 2018 copyright extension sets.
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?
I’m especially wondering about My Solution, which was recorded on Oct 31, 1970. So the song has to be released by Dec 31, 2020 or the BBs lose the copyrights, and any other label can release the songs.
Same with Carry Me Home, which was recorded in 1972. So they have to release it before Dec 31, 2022.
So, will these songs be on this set, or, in the case of CMH, a 2022 Holland sessions set? Even though it’s clear the BBs do not want these available
yeah, i think that they're going to release My Solution this year, Capitol's main priority is releasing archival BB's stuff due to the 2012 european law 

Bless those Europeans for putting that law into affect. That is indirectly led to all of this wonderful music being released.

What if it turns out there were some hardcore BBs fans in European politics who got the law to happen so that it would  lead to the releases we have been gifted with. I'm sure it's not true, but it's funny to consider it…


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 06, 2020, 04:48:15 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.

I've never heard this. Source??

Quote
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?

Well...my thoughts are twofold here:

1) The law only applies to, what??? Europe?? It's still technically protected in the rest of the world. It might not be worth their trouble for such a limited scope.

2) Having said that, maybe one thing they could do is figure out if there's a minimum length of time that the music has to be available in order for it to count for renewed copyright. Let's say the music has to be available for a minimum of one hour. I could easily see them very quietly making the music available but only to certain areas at the most inconvenient time to download, and then once that minimum time is met, yank the music. I think people were afraid that The Beatles' lone copyright extension release was like that -- it went online, but then shortly after it was taken down with no hint that it ever existed. (It reemerged later on that day -- I think the consensus was that there was a problem with the original upload, like incorrect pricing or something.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 06, 2020, 06:57:19 AM
So I just thought of something. When the Made in California set was being made, the BBs refused to put 5 tracks on it. My Solution, Stevie, Carry Me Home,  Walking, and Thank Him.

I've never heard this. Source??

Quote
But could the BBs some how stop the remaining 3 tracks from being released officially? I know these songs are super easy to find, but if the BBs truly don’t want them officially released, could they do anything to stop from losing the copyrights?

Well...my thoughts are twofold here:

1) The law only applies to, what??? Europe?? It's still technically protected in the rest of the world. It might not be worth their trouble for such a limited scope.

2) Having said that, maybe one thing they could do is figure out if there's a minimum length of time that the music has to be available in order for it to count for renewed copyright. Let's say the music has to be available for a minimum of one hour. I could easily see them very quietly making the music available but only to certain areas at the most inconvenient time to download, and then once that minimum time is met, yank the music. I think people were afraid that The Beatles' lone copyright extension release was like that -- it went online, but then shortly after it was taken down with no hint that it ever existed. (It reemerged later on that day -- I think the consensus was that there was a problem with the original upload, like incorrect pricing or something.)
It was from a September 2013 interview with Rock Cellar Magazine


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 06, 2020, 09:25:23 AM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 06, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).

Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 06, 2020, 04:27:50 PM
Keep in mind that “Made in California” was not viewed by the band/label as mainly an “archival” deep-dive set for hardcore fans. It was a coffee-table book/holiday gift sort of CD boxed set for the masses. So they may have had different feelings/thoughts about what would go on a set like that versus what gets dumped onto a “Copyright Extension” set which, in some cases, will only be released digitally.

There is also the simple passage of time that can sometimes lead to band members eventually being convinced to release stuff. Think about the stuff that *didn’t* make it onto the ’93 GV set only to later appear on “Endless Harmony Soundtrack”, and then think about the stuff that didn’t make it onto the EH Soundtrack that appeared later on, and so on.

While I can’t imagine them NOT eventually releasing “Carry Me Home” somewhere, wasn’t that composition technically already published years ago when some band covered it an album of BB/Brian covers? If so, it may be that they wouldn’t *have to* still release that one.

Same thing for “Stevie” and “My Solution”; I think they can be convinced to put those on more obscure archival releases. Frankly, I find the 1980 version of “My Solution” more enjoyable than the 1970 version; certainly more listenable.

There are some archival bits that are unlikely to see official release, but that would be stuff that’s either only available in mediocre or poor sound quality (e.g. the “Hamburger/Cocaine” tape), material that is very challenging to listen to outside of hardcore fandom/scholarship (again the Hamburger tape, etc.), material that is not musically that interesting and is just a bit too “rough” content-wise (e.g. the “Drip Drop” tape), and in a few rare cases items that, whether you agree with it or not, would probably incite backlash/controversy due to the subject matter (I’m thinking of “Lazy Lizzie” most obviously).

Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian
yeah, i remember reading that about Carry Me Home not being released


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on March 06, 2020, 10:45:33 PM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on March 07, 2020, 10:13:21 AM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 07, 2020, 11:14:09 AM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.

So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on March 07, 2020, 12:02:22 PM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doinnothin on March 07, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
My feeling is that the surviving BBs are a lot less interested in what goes on these releases than we are.

Of course. I'd say nearly for sure. And I'd say the same for perhaps Bob Dylan and his Bootleg Series. Of all the major artists involved with their archival projects, I'd probably say maybe Pete Townshend is one of the few that would be super hands on. And maybe Mick Jagger with the Stones (at least Exile and Some Girls) as he actually went in and finished previously unfinished stuff for those projects re-issues.

I raise you one Neil Young


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 08, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on March 08, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 08, 2020, 05:05:18 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)

Yes - and I assume that's because there was no solo recorded for the track in '79/'80. Carl played both bass and rhythm guitar on the song, drummer Scott Mathews says he also played bass on it (there are actually no less than three bass tracks on the recording), and Al also laid down a rhythm guitar track. So, lots of guitars there!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 09, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
Lazy Lizzie?
In a world with Hey Little Tomboy and Roller Skating Child, Lazy Lizzie isn’t that bad.
The reason Carry Me Home wasn’t released was because of Dennis’s Lyrics hit a little too close to home for some members, my guess is Brian

Well, it's probably not particularly constructive to debate whether "Lazy Lizzie" is more offensive or creepy than those other songs. Yes, all three songs form a trio of songs that, despite Brian writing them from a presumably innocent point of view, are undeniably creepy given the full context of who is singing the songs, the ages of those writing and singing, etc.

The issue with "Lazy Lizzie" versus the other two songs is that the other two songs were released over 40 years ago and currently reside quietly on relatively obscure BB albums.

"Lazy Lizzie", if it were released, would be on a relatively low-key archival release. But the difference is that, again whether one agrees or disagrees with it, offense and controversy re-emerge due to some sort of impetus. That usually comes when something new is put out on the marketplace. So if "Hey Little Tomboy" were to be included on some new hits compilation that got a lot of attention (yes, I know there's no reason that would happen, but let's imagine it did), it might garner new attention it hasn't in the past and, not for the first time, something that has existed for half a century that was *just as potentially offensive* 20 years ago as it is now, could all of a sudden be deemed in 2020 to be offensive and ignite a backlash.

Believe me, I've wondered for a number of years in the age of social media outrage (again, whether one agrees with it or not; I imagine a lot of us view it as sometimes being justified, sometimes not) about whether some random clickbait writer will spew out some story about "Hey Little Tomboy" and bring it to the attention of a non-fan audience that just waits around for something to be offended by.

And, to be honest, while a huge controversy or calling into question the character of Brian or any of the band members is something I think would be far too excessive, I don't think a calm, respectful analysis of these songs that includes pointing out that they are and maybe always were kind of weird/creepy/inappropriate would be out of line. The problem is that such a piece will not be written for mainstream consumption. It will be written to "catch" Brian and the band 87 years after the fact, and it will be written by a non-fan, someone who isn't familiar enough with Brian to know that his deal in that era was writing these songs from an innocent, juvenile point of view.

I said I wasn't going to parse these songs too much, but I would say that while the argument can always be made that these songs are written from the point of view of someone of an age appropriate to be socializing with the subjects of the songs, "Lazy Lizzie" sounds kind of creepy and predatory even if the "narrator" of the song is of the same age.

Again, to be very clear, I'm a fan and scholar of the band, and I have a brain that can reason, and I can put all of this stuff in context, and I'm very aware that these songs are more curiosities than something to be alarmed about. I have no problem calling them creepy and maybe sexist/offensive, etc. That doesn't make me think Brian or the guys are bad people. There are just these hand full of songs that have a clear creepy vibe despite the writer/performer intentions. I think it's insulting someone's intelligence to deny that, *on the surface*, a then-35-ish-year-old man singing about following a high school girl around as she walks home from school seems inappropriate/creepy, etc. Again, once one knows Brian's deal and where his head was at, and the astonishing level of innocence he wrote with, and the degree to which he was closed off from a lot of modern sensibilities (whether they be social norms or musical styles/subjects), it's easy to understand the clear innocence with which these weird songs were written.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 09, 2020, 09:10:05 AM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song), and also whether it's deemed to be among the higher quality outtakes. Neither of those factors seem to make it more likely to see release. The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 09:17:07 AM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 09, 2020, 09:17:41 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.

Sometimes I'm cool with Brian recycling old melodies - he has certainly done it plenty of times! For some reason, I just hear creative atrophy when I listen to this particular song, more so than virtually any song by Brian from this time period. Yet we know he had way, way more great music in him, just around the corner.

IMHO, I just think this sounds like what a song would sound like if Brian was given a demand to write a song in 20 minutes, at a moment where he wasn't feeling creative inspiration. I suppose it's possible that if I heard the raw, perfect quality session tapes, that my opinion of the song could be improved a little.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on March 09, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 09, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
So did Mike for "Made in California" I believe ("Going to the beach"). But I agree with you guys.

They (Al?) updated Loop De Loop for Endless Harmony too as I recall.

Yes, Al.

Why did Mike have Scott Totten overdub “Goin’ to the Beach.” This may be a stupid comparison I could fix from carefully A/B’ing the two versions, but  the solo is Scott Totten and not Carl, correct? (sadly)

Yes - and I assume that's because there was no solo recorded for the track in '79/'80. Carl played both bass and rhythm guitar on the song, drummer Scott Mathews says he also played bass on it (there are actually no less than three bass tracks on the recording), and Al also laid down a rhythm guitar track. So, lots of guitars there!

You may recall that something called Tongal had some kind of you record the guitar solo competition, which allowed people to download a flac file of the Goin' To The Beach track sans modern overdubs.

There was another unique track available from the Tongal site too, from memory. If I go looking thru my collection I might find them.
 :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 09, 2020, 01:32:41 PM

For a thread ostensibly about a 1970-71 box set, there's an awful lot of discussion of 1976-1980 tracks (which I have also contributed to).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 09, 2020, 03:11:31 PM

For a thread ostensibly about a 1970-71 box set, there's an awful lot of discussion of 1976-1980 tracks (which I have also contributed to).
yeah, I think that it started with the discussion of the remake track of My Solution


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 09, 2020, 06:32:57 PM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.
The thing about never learn not to love is that they didn’t know until years later. Probably late 70s, early 80s. As several bandmembers have said, for the longest time, they just thought it was a Dennis track


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 09, 2020, 10:07:47 PM
"Lazy Lizzie" is undoubtedly an interesting, intriguing insight into Brian and his writing. Even the weird, repetitive, sometimes mundane stuff is interesting in terms of where his head was at and where he was at musically. The fact that he so rarely was trying to copy contemporary pop/rock styles/trends during that time frame is fascinating.

That he knowingly or unknowingly was working that same "Better Get Back in Bed" vibe, and frankly a somewhat similar riff/vibe to "Shortenin' Bread", etc. is undeniably interesting.

Not releasing it officially would be down to mainly a question of whether it's tasteful (and/or would elicit some sort of bad PR/backlash, and whether that risk is worth it for such a song). The fact that it has circulated widely in at least okay-ish sound quality perhaps also makes it less *needed* as a release (and it has also, from what I can tell, much more selectively circulated in much better, virtually pristine quality).

In any event, they'd presumably have until 2026/2027 to decide. Whatever happens, I certainly wouldn't bet a bunch of money we'll see "Lazy Lizzie" officially released any time soon.

Because of the era we live in, where clickbait sites are salivating to make a story out of nothing (or next to nothing), I feel literally 100% confident this song will never, ever be officially released. I think if we were to go through all of the least likely candidates for BBs songs *ever* getting official release, this might rank dead last for those reasons.

If the band could wave a magic wand and make other released songs from their catalog simply go away and never exist, I think Hey Little Tomboy would be #1 on that list, followed by the entire Summer in Paradise album that Mike seems embarrassed by at this point (maybe simply because it flopped so hard, because he'd probably be singing its praises had the thing sold). I would not doubt that there might have at one point in the early 70s been internal discussions of it was possible to delete Never Learn Not to Love from future pressings of 20/20. Glad they never went with that Streisand Effect measure.

And maybe the Heroes and Villains version where Mike (apparently at Brian's behest?) spoken word talks over the music about their latest music being a nuclear bomb... that would also be near the very bottom of the list of song versions that would ever get released officially, for obvious reasons.
The thing about never learn not to love is that they didn’t know until years later. Probably late 70s, early 80s. As several bandmembers have said, for the longest time, they just thought it was a Dennis track

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 10, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.

I'm with you - I love Lazy Lizzie and would love to hear a well-mixed and mastered version of the song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 10, 2020, 11:01:28 AM

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.

It wasn't a mystery to Stephen Desper who recorded Manson singing the song, at Dennis's behest.  But I'm not surprised that no one else knew.  I know Dennis was supporting Manson and the Family and after he had them evicted (by moving out of the rented house and stopping payments) he supposedly gave Manson money for the song - but I'm a little surprised Dennis didn't give Manson partial songwriting credit.  It was recorded in 1968 and released 6 months before the murders.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 10, 2020, 11:23:57 AM

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.

It wasn't a mystery to Stephen Desper who recorded Manson singing the song, at Dennis's behest.  But I'm not surprised that no one else knew.  I know Dennis was supporting Manson and the Family and after he had them evicted (by moving out of the rented house and stopping payments) he supposedly gave Manson money for the song - but I'm a little surprised Dennis didn't give Manson partial songwriting credit.  It was recorded in 1968 and released 6 months before the murders.


IIRC Dennis mentioned it in an interview around that time* that a) Manson wrote or co-wrote the song and b) he wanted just the cash.
BTW I think the contents of what Stephen Desper recorded with Manson are unknown. A songlist has never surfaced if I recall correctly.


* It's in the 1971 Rolling Stone article "A California Saga":

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beach-boys-a-california-saga-part-ii-233192/

Dennis was asked if it was true Charles Manson wrote the words of “Never Learn Not to Love,” an eerie opus on the 20-20 album with an ominous message: Surrender . . . I’m your kind . . . Come in, closer, come in, closer, closer.

“That’s right, he did.”

Why didn’t you give him the label credit?

“He didn’t want that. He wanted money instead. I gave him about a hundred thousand dollars’ worth of stuff.

“But I don’t think you should put that in your story. I see no reason the story should mention him at all.”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 10, 2020, 12:41:06 PM
Regarding NLNTL / Manson, it would seem pretty obvious that what the band knew and what they were prepared to say publicly were 2 different things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 11, 2020, 11:28:38 AM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.

Quote from: Mike Love
For instance, they were going to do a Best Of The Beach Boys Volume Three in 19 - , whatever the hell it was, and I came in there and went, "Wait a second, call in Endless Summer." And instead of being Volume Three which sound nauseating to me...

He obviously forgot about the *actual* Best of the Beach Boys Volume Three that came out...and frankly, I don't blame him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 11, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Regarding NLNTL / Manson, it would seem pretty obvious that what the band knew and what they were prepared to say publicly were 2 different things.
Dennis knew, and I’m sure other members knew too, but as far as I know, at least by 1976, Brian didn’t know


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on March 11, 2020, 12:21:27 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 11, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
I recall an interview in the early 1990s when Mike was asked about the Capitol two-fer CDs, and he said he barely even knew about them.

ETA: That turns out to have been an understatement. The interview is here: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html.

Quote from: Mike Love
For instance, they were going to do a Best Of The Beach Boys Volume Three in 19 - , whatever the hell it was, and I came in there and went, "Wait a second, call in Endless Summer." And instead of being Volume Three which sound nauseating to me...

He obviously forgot about the *actual* Best of the Beach Boys Volume Three that came out...and frankly, I don't blame him.

What's interesting is that "Endless Summer" doesn't conform to what a "Greatest Hits Vol. 4" (or Vol. 3, etc.) would have been, because it repeats a bunch of the songs from those old GH albums. So it's not like it was just a title change. Mike's apparent idea essentially amounted to "Let's reissue the 'Best of the Beach Boys Vol. 1 and 2', switch around some tracks, and re-title it."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 11, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 11, 2020, 03:55:46 PM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on March 11, 2020, 04:08:15 PM
It was really weird seeing Al actually getting pissed off about it. He actually swore at the interviewer.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on March 12, 2020, 04:40:16 AM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!

Is this the interview where they are at a record store to do a meet and greet for the LA Album release?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 12, 2020, 06:50:35 AM
The Manson angle has, obviously, always been a touchy subject with most of the band members. How much of that is due to bad feelings and uneasiness versus simply being a PR issue, that’s up for debate I suppose. The farther away from Dennis the member/associate was/is, the more likely they seem to be more bemused about the whole debacle rather than alarmed or concerned. I sense Dennis was far more uneasy even broaching the subject than, say, Bruce, for instance.

Other than Mike weirdly using it as an “edgy” angle to sell his autobiography a few years ago, the band members have rarely volunteered to talk about Manson in any detail.

Which highlights the fact that the band has been pretty lucky over the years that they haven’t more often been asked about it, and that that particular angle to their story has not been more regularly highlighted in pieces on the band that cover their history.

Some of this was due to periods when nobody cared enough to interview them much or ask them about anything (e.g. some parts of the late 70s into the 80s). Their low ebb of fame and attention occasionaly benefitted them in that there was little scrutiny. Various brushes with the law in the 70s, or the band playing Sun City in 1981/82, went largely unnoticed.

There was one old TV news piece/interview that was up on YouTube *years* ago but has been gone for ages, where Brian and Al are being interviewed sitting next to each other, during the MIU-ish era in 1978, and the interviewer brings up Manson to Brian, and Al uncharacteristically gets super agitated and offended and blocks the interviewer from asking Brian about it. Al seemed to be genuinely concerned that discussing it would upset Brian.

Damn, i need to see that interview!

Is this the interview where they are at a record store to do a meet and greet for the LA Album release?


Could be; can't remember for sure. I just remember it was 1978 or 79, so yeah, they were plugging either MIU or LA. LA is probably more likely, as they seemed to do more publicity for that one.

I don't remember Al swearing, just a rather stuffy news guy *relatively* innocently asking Brian about something to do with Manson, and Al being agitated and doing a "don't ask about that, we're not here to talk about that" bit. It wasn't like Al started screaming and ran the guy out of the room. But it was a more firm, awkward refusal and admonition than typically seen in interviews with BBs or Al specifically.

I might still have this archived away somewhere on an old laptop or something. I'll have to check.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 12, 2020, 12:49:20 PM
I remember seeing that a few years ago. That's a pretty good description of how it played out. Al was just trying to keep things positive.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on March 12, 2020, 02:30:36 PM
Al says something like "That's bullshit", and then basically redirected the questioning, but in a bit of a harsher tone than usual. The weird thing is that the interviewer brings manson's name up completely out of nowhere. I got the distinct impression that whoever asked the question didn't seem to have a firm grasp on who Manson even was.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 12, 2020, 09:48:25 PM
You would be surprised how many people know about the BB Manson connection.
I was talking to my friend, who knows nothing about the BBs, and I was telling him all about Brian, and he asks, “Didn’t he help Manson with the murders?” I literally was shocked.
I obviously explained the true story, how Dennis was the one who let Manson live out of his house, and they worked on some music. I explained how the BBs were in no way responsible or the cause of Manson’s crime.
Thats the problem with the BBs talking about Manson, no matter how many times they talk about what actually happened, all most people take away is that the BBs were connected to a famous murderer


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 14, 2020, 08:43:19 AM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 14, 2020, 08:54:20 AM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"

Well, at least it doesn't happen the other way around - meaning, someone just mentions The Beach Boys, and someone else automatically says, "Oh yeah, they knew Charles Manson". At least, HOPEFULLY not!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on March 14, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
Heh. Probably about ten years ago I was teaching an ACT prep class (those of you not in the U.S., it's one of the tests teenagers take to help with their university admissions), and for some reason one of the kids mentioned Charles Manson. Another student said, "Wasn't one of the Beach Boys involved with him?"

Well, at least it doesn't happen the other way around - meaning, someone just mentions The Beach Boys, and someone else automatically says, "Oh yeah, they knew Charles Manson". At least, HOPEFULLY not!
It does unfortunately


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
How long before any release should we expect to have a press release, track listing or any other firm details on this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on March 18, 2020, 06:14:28 AM
From what I can gather from BBFC site....

Made in California - press release on June 11, 2013 for the release on August 27

Beach Boys' Party: Uncovered and Unplugged - press release on Oct 22, 2015 for the release on November 20

Pet Sounds 50th - press release on March 23, 2016 for the release on June 10

Sunshine Tomorrow - press release on May 23, 2017 for the release on June 30



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 11:03:17 AM
Suppose that means at least four weeks before, but potentially a couple of months (if we're lucky).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 18, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 18, 2020, 05:31:52 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?




i feel that the whole Feel Flows box set it's going to be a major thing spanning from 1969-1971-ish, well, who knows, the lack of news only makes us create a lot of suppositions


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on March 19, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 19, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Good call. I remember dreaming that they would do this for their 33 1/3 rd anniversary, with 33 1/3rd tracks, - for some reason I felt the Oxnard remote recording of Mr Moto was a good fit for the 1/3rd!!

Seriously though, this would be so good.
The live tracks coming out during this copyright extension era have been an absolute revelation. Only wishing the recording of Rock and Roll Woman was released (proper release, not the version from Amercan Band video).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 19, 2020, 06:18:46 PM
I'm also starting to wonder if there could be another major box set for the 60th anniversary.

1980/83= The Capitol Years 6 LPs / 4 CDs (20th anniversary)
1993 = Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys (30th anniversary)
Nothing in particular around the 40th anniversary, then
2011 = Smile Sessions + 2013 = Made In California (50th anniversary)
2020 = Feel Flows

Is there potential for another "career spanning" box set sometime between 2021-2023?






Yep - the much needed live retrospective.


Good call. I remember dreaming that they would do this for their 33 1/3 rd anniversary, with 33 1/3rd tracks, - for some reason I felt the Oxnard remote recording of Mr Moto was a good fit for the 1/3rd!!

Seriously though, this would be so good.
The live tracks coming out during this copyright extension era have been an absolute revelation. Only wishing the recording of Rock and Roll Woman was released (proper release, not the version from Amercan Band video).
the version of Rock 'N' Roll Woman was a cutted/edited version, right? i feel that it's so short (last about minute and half)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 20, 2020, 12:14:13 AM
According to this, about 1:28

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=longlostsurfsongs3


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DeanEntwistle on March 20, 2020, 01:51:05 AM
According to this, about 1:28

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=longlostsurfsongs3
well, I only missed for 2 seconds XD


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on April 10, 2020, 05:48:15 AM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 10, 2020, 06:47:22 AM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?

No one who would know, and yes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on April 16, 2020, 11:33:18 PM
So, who said march for this release? Do we even know if this project exists?

Why would it have ever been put out in March in the first place?  There has been no official press release of it yet. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on April 17, 2020, 12:43:14 AM
This video just posted on Brian's YouTube account in which he talks (none too interestingly, it must be said) about Feel Flows (the song) seems like a good sign, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8v3VVgqtOA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2dXhuByqALAg7dIiVGwc7sZOjV0mJP_jHhyolqPSH874y4P4gwzpob3tA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on April 17, 2020, 01:43:31 AM
This video just posted on Brian's YouTube account in which he talks (none too interestingly, it must be said) about Feel Flows (the song) seems like a good sign, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8v3VVgqtOA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2dXhuByqALAg7dIiVGwc7sZOjV0mJP_jHhyolqPSH874y4P4gwzpob3tA


Not really. It's from the "Warmth of the sun"-podcast from around 2006.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on April 17, 2020, 04:03:53 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SBonilla on April 17, 2020, 07:34:48 AM
If I were UMG, I'd bump the release to Christmas.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on April 17, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?

They've been posting snippets of Brian Wilson interviews about specific songs for the last two weeks. They've been all over the place in terms of timeline, early 1960s to 1970s. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just the content machine churning out material for clicks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on April 17, 2020, 07:30:09 PM
If I were UMG, I'd bump the release to Christmas.
Fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on April 18, 2020, 03:54:42 AM
So why post it on YouTube at this particular time?

They've been posting snippets of Brian Wilson interviews about specific songs for the last two weeks. They've been all over the place in terms of timeline, early 1960s to 1970s. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just the content machine churning out material for clicks.

Aren't they just from that Warmth of The Sun comp tie in podcast from 2007?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 01, 2020, 03:49:40 PM

Any news on the status of this? it would really brighten up the lockdown.

Also wondering if with rumors of a 60th anniversary reunion of sorts, maybe a new compilation might come out, maybe with one or two archival tracks from late seventies. That'd be nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 02, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
If it did have a release date it's most likely been postponed


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 02, 2020, 11:59:43 AM

Any news on the status of this? it would really brighten up the lockdown.

Also wondering if with rumors of a 60th anniversary reunion of sorts, maybe a new compilation might come out, maybe with one or two archival tracks from late seventies. That'd be nice.

Fall
Also, probably expect the copyright extensions to continue every year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on May 04, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
The sooner the better I say! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 07:55:41 AM
The sooner the better I say! 
It’s fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 11:06:25 AM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 05, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it

Very late August seems like a VERY good guess, not only because it's the actual anniversary date, but because it's still technically (barely) during the summer, which makes it more of a Beach Boys "thing", and also it's as far as they can push the release out away from the timeline epicenter of the Coronavirus and have it still be a summer BBs release. I would tend to think it's too perfect a date for these multiple reasons for it to be released any other time in 2020 but then. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 05, 2020, 12:26:11 PM
I’m not sure why no one wants to believe me, so I’m gonna go ahead and say it again. The set Will not come out any later than this fall. It could come out earlier, but there’s no chance of it being delayed until next year. i’ll give you three reasons why
1. Mark has said on a live stream that it’s already being scheduleed for this fall.
2. Any material from 1970 will no longer be owned by December 31 of this year. So basically, for this project to be completely copyrighted by BRI, all the material has to be released by December 31 of this year.
3. It won’t be released in the next couple months, mainly for obvious reasons.

So it will be released later this year. most likely in the fall.
If I were to make some predictions on what the date could be, here are my predictions:
August 28: to coincide with the 50th anniversary of SunFlower

November 20: this is the date back in 2015 that they chose to release the BB Party set
November 27: record store day
December 11: if it’s an online only copyright extension.
Obviously it’s possible that it could come out literally any day, but these are just my opinions on what is the most likely based on the past.
But don’t expect it within the next couple months. modern artists are delaying their albums because of the pandemic, because they’re worried about low album sales. These sets are not exactly Best sellers, but don’t expect their label to try to alienate customers who can’t go and buy it. They want the most amount of people who can buy it to buy it

I never disagreed with any of this.  I haven't the faintest why so many people seem to think this thing is just going to magically pop up in the immediate future.  There has been no official announcement or press release for it yet; we only have Jardine's and Linett's word to go by. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on May 05, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
I can see some digital teasers before fall but that's just my opinion. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 05, 2020, 01:27:39 PM
I see this coming around Aug/Sep, being close to the actual anniversary date.

My next question would be, do people see this being followed by "less releasable" tracks, plus completists live recordings via digital releases in Dec?

 I'm thinking along the lines of 2017s "Sunshine Tomorrow" (physical release), followed by "Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and "Live Sunshine".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 05, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
I see this coming around Aug/Sep, being close to the actual anniversary date.

My next question would be, do people see this being followed by "less releasable" tracks, plus completists live recordings via digital releases in Dec?

 I'm thinking along the lines of 2017s "Sunshine Tomorrow" (physical release), followed by "Sunshine Tomorrow 2" and "Live Sunshine".
They could do that. That’s the most likely.
Or, they could do what they did back in 2011 with the Smile Sessions, where there is a 2 disk set with all the remixes and bonuses, then a 4 or 5 disk set with tons of live performances, studio outtakes, etc.
Personally, I am more inclined to think that your suggestion is probably going to be what happens. Around August or September, we get the actual box set, and then we get the digital only exclusives in December.
It’s all really confusing, especially with the pandemic, and the fact that I have no idea how they’re going to handle vinyl, seeing as the vinyl community is kind of in disarray at the moment.
Also, this kind of goes without saying, but I highly doubt that the official title is going to be Feel Flows.
If they choose a song title from either of these albums, it’s probably going to be more along the lines of Add Some Music to Your Day. Or, I had a kind of cool idea. They could call it Long Promised Road, just like the upcoming documentary, and kind of tie the two in together.
Or they could take the boring route, and literally just call the thing Sunflower and Surf's Up (Deluxe edition)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 22, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 22, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

Isn't the line "Good for my soul"?  I'll admit, though, that I can't remember which song it's even from - all I can think of at the moment is, "You've got so much soul, you blow my mind!" from "Got To Know The Woman".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 22, 2020, 08:46:30 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

Isn't the line "Good for my soul"?  I'll admit, though, that I can't remember which song it's even from - all I can think of at the moment is, "You've got so much soul, you blow my mind!" from "Got To Know The Woman".
The Sunday morning gospel is good for the soul 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 22, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
The Sunday morning gospel goes good with the soul . . .


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Fall Breaks on May 22, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Those last two days were good for my soul ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on May 23, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
I think they're going to call it "Take a Load off Your Feet, Pete".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 23, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
There’s blues folk and country and ROCK like a rolling stone



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 23, 2020, 10:05:59 PM
Those last two days were good for my soul ...

I forgot about those lyrics, but they're just not on par with the lyrics from Add some music  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 25, 2020, 06:15:54 AM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 25, 2020, 02:27:20 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase.  

I take your point, but to my mind there won't be a lot of purchases of an archival release like this by people who wouldn't be aware of the source of that "Good with the Soul" lyric (ie. fairly hard core Beach Boys fans).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on May 26, 2020, 08:00:09 PM
No matter WHAT you call it, archival releases are pretty much just for the hardcore fans in the first place.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on May 27, 2020, 06:17:16 AM
I'd vote for "It's About Time"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on May 27, 2020, 07:46:11 AM
But I don’t think that this is just an archival release. Obviously, most of it’s going to be archival, but I feel like it’s going to be a complete repackaging of those albums. Or at least one of them, probably Sunflower.
That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a name like “Sunflower (Super Deluxe Addition)” or something like that


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 27, 2020, 02:08:53 PM
But I don’t think that this is just an archival release. Obviously, most of it’s going to be archival, but I feel like it’s going to be a complete repackaging of those albums. Or at least one of them, probably Sunflower.
That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a name like “Sunflower (Super Deluxe Addition)” or something like that

I think Edition is more likely than Addition.

(Not being nasty, more and more errors like this are all over the place, and I'm certainly not immune from typos, auto-correct faux pas etc.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 27, 2020, 02:20:32 PM
I misread that as “Addiction “. 😒 Well, I certainly AM addicted to music :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 28, 2020, 05:48:16 AM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  :P

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

"Feel Flows" works fine.  Less is more.  You want a snappy title for the album; not an overly abstract and wordy phrase.  

I take your point, but to my mind there won't be a lot of purchases of an archival release like this by people who wouldn't be aware of the source of that "Good with the Soul" lyric (ie. fairly hard core Beach Boys fans).

Well, Sunshine Tomorrow did very well sales-wise (exceeding whatever the expectations were), and that's not an obvious title.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 06, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
So while we are still waiting on this, I thought it would be fun to propose some track lists. My guess is that The first 12 tracks will be remixed and remastered versions of Sunflower. The rest is uncertain, but I’m going to copy and paste a post from the https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-2019-copyright-extension-speculation.886274/ Steve Hoffman forums with detailed breakdown of the sunflower sessions.
1969:
January
9 - session: Forever/San Miguel
13 - session: San Miguel (remake) [Sunset]
22 - session: San Miguel [Valentine - 2 sessions]
24 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]
27 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]
29 - session: San Miguel [Capitol]

February
13 - session: Got To Know The Woman [Sunset]
14 - session: Got To Know The Woman [Sunset]
21 - session: Deidrie
24 - session: What Can The Matter Be ?/Celebrate The News [Sunset]
25 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]

March
3 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]
5 - session: Loop De Loop [Western]
6 - session: Loop De Loop [Western]
8 - session: Loop De Loop
11 - session: Loop De Loop [Sunset]
12 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
14 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
17 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
19 - session: All I Wanna Do [Gold Star]
21 - session: Deidrie [Gold Star]
31 - single session: Break Away [ID Sound]

April
2 - single session: Break Away
10 - single session: Break Away vocals [ID Sound]
23 - single session: Break Away [Gold Star]

May
24 - session: What Can The Matter Be [Valentine]

July
9 - session: Slip On Through
14 - session: Slip On Through/I'm Going Your Way (= California Slide) [Sunset]

August
8 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version)
15 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version) [Sunset]
22 - Kalinich poetry album session: America, I Know You [Wally Heider][5]
29 - session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine [Sunset]

September
5 - session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine [Sunset]

October
6 - Add Some Music session: Slip On Through
13 - Add Some Music session: Walkin'
20 - Add Some Music session: Games Two Can Play
28 - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

November
3 - Add Some Music session: 'untitled'
4 - Add Some Music session: When Girls Get Together
6 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine/Our Sweet Love/'Til I Die (demo) [Sunset]
9 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine vocals
10 - Add Some Music session: 'untitled'
11 - Add Some Music session: Raspberries, Strawberries (= At My Window)
13 - Add Some Music session: This Whole World
18 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning
?? - Add Some Music session: Where is She ?

December
23 - Dennis Wilson session: 'Dennis' piano interlude' (= (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again demo)
24 - Add Some Music session: Susie Cincinnati/Back Home
26 - Add Some Music session: Lady
?? - Add Some Music session: Carnival (= Over The Waves) [9]
?? - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

1970 Sessions

January
2 - Add Some Music session: 'Untitled #3'
5 - Add Some Music session: I Just Got My Pay/Carnival (= Over The Waves)
7 - Add Some Music session:
Susie Cincinnati/Good Time/You Never Give Me Your Money
9 - Add Some Music session: Carnival (= Over The Waves)
17 - Add Some Music session: Take A Load Off Your Feet, Pete
18 - Add Some Music session: Back Home [demo]
19 - Add Some Music session: Back Home
26 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning/Our Sweet Love/Take A Load Off
Your Feet/Fallin' In Love (= Lady) strings
27 - Live In London session: mixing (Capitol) [1]
28 - Live In London session: mixing (Capitol)
28 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning [piano tag - Valentine]
?? - Add Some Music session: Back Home
?? - Add Some Music session: Take A Load Off Your Feet
?? - Add Some Music session: Cool, Cool Water
?? - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

February
2 - Add Some Music session: Susie Cincinatti [car fx]
18 - Add Some Music session: mastering and album assembled
the tracks for the first offering to Reprise were as follows: Susie Cincinnati/Good
Time/Our Sweet Love/Tears In The Morning/When Girls Get Together/Slip On
Through/Add Some Music To Your Day/Take A Load Off Your Feet/This Whole
World/I Just Got My Pay/At My Window/Fallin' In Love [Artisan Sounds]

April
17, 21, 28, 29 - Fred Vail country album session: the following titles were recorded over the
four sessions - Bethany Ann*/There's Always Something There To Remind
Me*/Kittens, Kids & Kites/Lucky Billy/Black Man In Georgia/One Woman
Won't Hold Me/Why Don't You Give Her To Me/If You're Not Loving, You're
Not Living/All For The Love Of A Girl*/Only The Lonely*/Carolina On My
Mind/My Way Of Life*/A Fool Such As I*/You Pass Me By/I Can't Help It If
I'm Still In Love With You [Wally Heider's][3]

June
19 - session: master for "Last Capitol Album" prepared. The tracks to be included
on the album (apparently entitled Reverberation) were: Cotton Fields (45
version, DuoPhonic)/Loop De Loop+/All I Wanna Do*/Got To Know The
Woman (mono mix)/When Girls Get Together (track only)Break Away/San
Miguel+/Celebrate The News/Deirdre*/The Lord's Prayer (stereo remix of
1963 version - actually electronically reprocessed)/Forever*. This is the order
on the master. The tracks noted * were used on Sunflower while those
noted + were pulled to the "2nd Warner Brothers album" reel.
[Artisan Sounds ?]

July
?? - Sunflower session: It's About Time (before the 8th)
?? - "Big Gus Club", Los Angeles CA [6]
7 - Sunflower session: Cool, Cool Water
8 - Sunflower session: Cool, Cool Water (mixdown)
21 - session: [no title] [7]
21 - Sunflower session: mastering & copying [Artisan Sounds]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on June 07, 2020, 09:00:59 AM
Whoever posted that on the Steve Hoffman forums just copied that off bellagio10452.com.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 10:59:51 AM
Whoever posted that on the Steve Hoffman forums just copied that off bellagio10452.com.
Oh? My bad I wasn’t looking that deeply, I was just trying to figure out what sessions they might include on the set, and that was the most comprehensive list that I found.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Curt Lambert on June 07, 2020, 12:17:57 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 07, 2020, 02:09:08 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 02:23:37 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?
2 different record labels.
There was actually 3 different versions of sunflower.
The first one was assembled in February 1970 for Warner brothers, and had the title add some music with this track list:
Susie Cincinnati
Good Time
Our Sweet Love
Tears In The Morning
When Girls Get Together
Slip On Through
Add Some Music To Your Day
Take A Load Off Your Feet
This Whole World
I Just Got My Pay
At My Window
Fallin' In Love
They also owed one last album to capital, so they scraped together some outtakes, and rarities, and made an album called reverberation in June, with this track list:
1.   "Cottonfields" (single version)   
2.   "Loop de Loop"   
3.   "All I Wanna Do"   
4.   "Got to Know the Woman" (mono mix)   
5.   "When Girls Get Together" (instrumental)   
6.   "Break Away"   
7.   "San Miguel"   
8.   "Celebrate the News"   
9.   "Deirdre"   
10.   "The Lord's Prayer" (stereo remix)   
11.   "Forever”
Both albums were rejected by their respective labels, capital released live in London instead, and they had to release an album of all new material, seeing as Break away and celebrate the news has been released at capital the previous year, so capital owned those copyrights.
So, they basically combined both add some music and reverberation, scrapped several tracks, recorded It’s about Time and a new version of Cool Cool Water, turned it in to Warner Bros., and boom. That’s how we got the album we know today


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 07, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on June 07, 2020, 06:39:36 PM
I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on June 07, 2020, 07:28:35 PM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on June 07, 2020, 07:32:09 PM
I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on June 08, 2020, 08:35:25 AM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.

I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).

Thanks c-man. Didn’t realize that Cotton Fields was a Capitol single; I assumed Break Away was the last Capitol single and Cotton Fields was the first Reprise single.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 08, 2020, 10:32:46 AM
Anyone ever hear why Breakaway was not on Sunflower?

Because it had already been released by Capitol?

This raises an interesting point - Brother retained the rights to the albums Pet Sounds and following, but what about the singles which did not appear on an album in those '66 to '69 years?
The only single that didn’t appear on an album between 1966 and 1969 was break away. And I don’t believe that they regained the rights to their 1966-69 catalog by July 1970 when the first album for Warner Bros. was finally assembled. and if I am completely wrong on this, I apologize. But I think another reason that Break Away never appeared on an official album was because of the fact that it did so poorly on the charts. Also, it could be that so much time had passed that they refused to put an old song that had already been released on a new album. Obviously, especially with their late 70s catalog, they freely stole from their own archives of the early 70s material, but they never put any previously released tracks on a new album several years later, with the exception of Susie Cincinnati

Since 'Breakaway" wasn't on an album, Capitol retained the rights to it (and to "Celebrate The News", and to the single version of "Cotton Fields"). That's why Capitol was able to include "Break Away" on Spirit Of America six years later.

I just wonder why Cotton Fields wasn’t on Sunflower over either At My Window or Our Sweet Love? It has really every member prominently except Al. Hell, Bruce has two songs (three, if you count At My Window). Al has three co-writing credits (modifying It’s About Time (and guitar) plus AMW and OSL and partial lead on Add Some Music. But the record feels absent of Al. Other than that, the album’s pretty much perfect.

Because Reprise didn't own the rights to "Cotton Fields", Capitol did. Al produced that version in August specifically for release as a single, and the band didn't sign with Warner-Reprise until November. Overseas, EMI Stateside was able to put it on Sunflower because they owned the rights to that album (and the next one).

Thanks c-man. Didn’t realize that Cotton Fields was a Capitol single; I assumed Break Away was the last Capitol single and Cotton Fields was the first Reprise single.
Add Some Music was the first WB single, then Slip On Through


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 08, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 08, 2020, 03:24:47 PM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set

I think that was what was talked about before the lockdown, but good to have a bit more evidence/info. Thanks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 09, 2020, 08:32:37 AM
ESQ referring to this as an upcoming 5 CD set
Any more info? Possible release date, possible marketing name, etc.?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 09, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
I know no one asked, but here’s my prediction:
Disc One: remastered sunflower + bonus tracks from the Sunflower sessions
Disk 2: instrumentals, a cappellas, and studio banter from the sunflower sessions.
Disk 3: remastered Surfs’ Up + bonus tracks from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 4: instrumentals, a cappella’s, and studio banter from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 5: live recordings from 1969-1971.
Then, hopefully, this December, we get a copyright dump with anything that’s left.
Then in December 2021, we get another copy right dump with super early So Tough Sessions, then sometime in 2022, we can get a new box set  chronicling the Blondie and Ricky years.
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Willy Wilson on June 09, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
I know no one asked, but here’s my prediction:
Disc One: remastered sunflower + bonus tracks from the Sunflower sessions
Disk 2: instrumentals, a cappellas, and studio banter from the sunflower sessions.
Disk 3: remastered Surfs’ Up + bonus tracks from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 4: instrumentals, a cappella’s, and studio banter from the Surfs’ Up sessions.
Disk 5: live recordings from 1969-1971.

This is just what I want...  :smokin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 01:39:15 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 16, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.

A couple of years ago you wrote the post below. Are we in the ballpark?

Although Townshend and McCartney have some incredible works that still remain long unreleased, you really couldn't say they trump the contemporary released product. The sheer QUALITY of BB's material, and we're talking songs from demo to master -- all the layers -- to my knowledge (and I've done deep dives through more than a few band vaults) is unprecedented. No other band has what they have. You look at major AOR artists -- Elton, The Band, The Eagles -- there's NOTHING there. In some cases they were stretching just to get enough material to fill an LP. TONS of filler.

Personally, if I owned these masters, I would do a 15-25 disc DUMP of all of this unreleased (1968-1978) material. Redefine the market like the BOOTLEG SERIES did in '91. There wouldn't be a single music rag, blog, or website that wouldn't automatically give it ANTHOLOGY-like press. You wouldn't have to read about BB's music in expensive fan publications. Real press would EAT IT UP. Film and TV placements would follow, moving the narrative past the tents, bedroom years, and shitt ily written Christmas tour articles. With so little effort, EVERYTHING could change.

EVERYTHING.
And all because of outtakes.

PR TAGLINE: "WHAT IF THERE WAS ANOTHER BEATLES? Guess what -- There WAS."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 02:18:51 PM
You are in the ballpark.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 16, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
Whoa....Better start saving!  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 02:31:26 PM
Nowhere near that big -- but for the period covered, breathtaking.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 16, 2020, 05:09:08 PM
I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.

WHOAH (Joey Lawrence voice). STOKED.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: blackrunninghorse on June 16, 2020, 05:48:02 PM
I remember you saying Howie a couple of years ago that there are still some great unreleased tracks in the vaults, is that true still?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Every LP could and SHOULD be a box set.
The Brother vault is an embarrassment of riches.

Especially during the eras where ALL SIX were composing/producing.
It's ridiculous. Absolute Vitamin C.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on June 16, 2020, 06:29:36 PM
Every LP could and SHOULD be a box set.
The Brother vault is an embarrassment of riches.

Especially during the eras where ALL SIX were composing/producing.
It's ridiculous. Absolute Vitamin C.

What is the timeline for this box set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on June 16, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
Now I’m even more excited


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 17, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.
I want 5 disks of every single version of Shortenin' Bread


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2020, 11:08:59 AM
I want 5 cds full of My Solutions sessions.
I want 5 disks of every single version of Shortenin' Bread

YESSS.

Thanks for the update Howie, "breathtaking" is quite the endorsement and I'm absolutely stoked for this. Can't wait for the announcement to come!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on June 17, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on June 17, 2020, 11:35:21 AM
If the box is set for an August release to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the original SunFlower, then we should be hearing an announcement here within the next couple weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on June 17, 2020, 11:49:53 AM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

Wow, that is cool to hear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 17, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.


How the hell did I miss that? Always wanted to hear Brian's version of Country with such super musicians as James Burton, Glen Hardin etc.


EDIT: Very nice. Vail certainly is not the best singer in the world, but still a good enough job. And I love that pedal steel intro. Want to hear more!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
Holy sh*t!  Fred doesn’t sound too bad, I always expected way worse if I ever got to hear any of his stuff!  Thanks for posting that link!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
Lord, I remember communicating with Fred way back in my Friends of The Beach Boys days.  He talked about the album way back then, in the spring of ‘77! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on June 17, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2020, 02:06:31 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

This is fantastic! The pedal steel guitar is top notch, I hope this gets an official release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RONDEMON on June 17, 2020, 03:09:40 PM
If Howie is excited, I'm extra excited. Thanks for chiming in, H. This is my favorite era of the band song-wise and production-wise. A really interesting and short-lived period of consistently good work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on June 17, 2020, 04:02:57 PM
Um, so this has been out there under everyone's noses for over 6 months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b4NbKvv8

At the time of this video (December), one track of Fred's with vocals was being considered for the boxset, so we might see that on the tracklist. It sounds shockingly good.

Don't know how to take Fred's "this one happened to survive" comment (he previously said he still had all of the tapes), but it's looking like whatever's there has been digitally transferred and will probably make it out in some form before the end of the year.

Not a country fan but that was pretty cool to hear.

By the way, it finally hit me who Fred reminds me off...the late Richard Harrison aka the Old Man from Pawn Stars.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 17, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
Fred always reminded me of Ned Beatty


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 17, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
can't believe I missed Fred's video from last Dec! so cool to finally hear something from the mythical Brian Wilson "country album"

definitely Buddy Emmons playing steel on this track. Jay Dee Maness is a steel legend too, also on the sessions.
sure hope all the songs get to see the light of day!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 18, 2020, 02:06:09 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on June 18, 2020, 02:30:15 AM
Imagine Brian Wilson taking the country music market by storm in 1970, haha!

This sounds indeed pretty good. Nothing earth-shattering but well done and the lead vocals are much better than expected. Reminds me of Spring in a way!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on June 18, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!

Also, I've heard from a reputable source that as of a couple days ago, the boxset has unfortunately been given yet another delay. I'd been hoping it'd be coming out in August in celebration of Sunflower's 50th, but if I had to guess, an October-November release date for the holiday season seems more likely. I know Howie can only tell us so much, but I would love to know what's been causing so much difficulty in the production, promotion, and ultimate release of this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 18, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!



Whoa?! Really? Great! And what a nice gesture from Brian to Fred Vail, to record an album for him with such top notch musicians


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 10, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
So, I don't know what this will be, but seems that maybe Fred's Country album teaser may have something to do with this (maybe a tie-in release?)....


Fred Vail presents "Nashville The Studio Scene 1944-2020 (teaser)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKl5sPDfi_c


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 11, 2020, 01:09:23 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!



Whoa?! Really? Great! And what a nice gesture from Brian to Fred Vail, to record an album for him with such top notch musicians
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!



Whoa?! Really? Great! And what a nice gesture from Brian to Fred Vail, to record an album for him with such top notch musicians


Mind....blown.

As for the delay that sucks but it’ll get here and I know it’ll be well worth the wait!

Besides, we’re dropping an album in September and wouldn’t want it to get overlooked 😆


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 11, 2020, 08:22:37 AM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!

Also, I've heard from a reputable source that as of a couple days ago, the boxset has unfortunately been given yet another delay. I'd been hoping it'd be coming out in August in celebration of Sunflower's 50th, but if I had to guess, an October-November release date for the holiday season seems more likely. I know Howie can only tell us so much, but I would love to know what's been causing so much difficulty in the production, promotion, and ultimate release of this set!
It might have to do with that vinyl record pressing plant that burned down a couple months ago. Maybe they want to put parts of the set on vinyl, and they’re having production difficulties.
Keep in mind that I have absolutely no information, I’m just guessing here


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on July 11, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
This was shared online recently:

The problem that may cause upcoming major label CD,DVD & Blu-ray music boxed sets to be postponed into 2021 or 2022 or cancelled isn’t manufacturing the discs. Those discs were always pressed under “Clean Room” conditions. The workers always wore masks & gloves. The more serious issues are the fabricating and printing of the packaging elements that are typical of major label boxed sets (10″ x 10″ and 12″ x 12″ boxes and slipcases, hardback & paperback books, posters and memorabilia reproductions), the closing of many mastering facilities, and the millions of unemployed consumers who won’t be able to afford the products.
It is more than boxed sets of “The Beatles-Let It Be” and the earliest John Lennon & George Harrison solo albums that are at stake, but also the following projects that are known to be in development:
The Rolling Stones-Goats Head Soup
Queen-The Miracle
Genesis-The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
The Who Sell Out
The Doors-Morrison Hotel
Marillion-Fugazi
Crosby Stills Nash & Young-Deja Vu
Bruce Springsteen-Tracks 2
Neil Young-Archives Vol.2(1972-1976)
The Beach Boys-5-disc set, tentatively titled “Feel Flows”
Cream-Wheels of Fire (+ additional concert recordings)
The Doobie Brothers-Quadio (Blu-ray audio box)
Bob Dylan-The Bootleg Series Vol.16
And, of course, future archival projects by Jimi Hendrix, The Kinks, Steve Miller Band and (astonishingly) the firsr-ever release of archival material by Joni Mitchell.
Not surprisingly, all the upcoming (late August) boxed sets from the Cherry Red group of labels feature small, simple packaging (mini album covers in a clamshell box). And large format boxes from Gonzo multimedia (America & Trevor Rabin) have been postponed. The issue is obviously printing and fabricating the packaging materials.

The Stones set is definitely coming out.  Here's another reason to take this with a big grain of salt.  The author of this info - Phil Cohen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 11, 2020, 08:58:29 PM
The Stones set is definitely coming out.  Here's another reason to take this with a big grain of salt.  The author of this info - Phil Cohen.

Good old Phil - the source of so much despair and doom, oh and don't forget the gloom!

I thought we might get some hard word on something by the end of July though.
Remember the little insert that came with the Good Vibrations b/w Heroes and Villains RSD 78. At least that was something concrete to look at. And that was months before the release. Oh pre-covid times, how I miss thee!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 12, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
I’m just happy that there’s more confirmation that it’s a full five disc set. That should be packed!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 12, 2020, 01:47:01 PM
This was shared online recently:

The problem that may cause upcoming major label CD,DVD & Blu-ray music boxed sets to be postponed into 2021 or 2022 or cancelled isn’t manufacturing the discs. Those discs were always pressed under “Clean Room” conditions. The workers always wore masks & gloves. The more serious issues are the fabricating and printing of the packaging elements that are typical of major label boxed sets (10″ x 10″ and 12″ x 12″ boxes and slipcases, hardback & paperback books, posters and memorabilia reproductions), the closing of many mastering facilities, and the millions of unemployed consumers who won’t be able to afford the products.
It is more than boxed sets of “The Beatles-Let It Be” and the earliest John Lennon & George Harrison solo albums that are at stake, but also the following projects that are known to be in development:
The Rolling Stones-Goats Head Soup
Queen-The Miracle
Genesis-The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
The Who Sell Out
The Doors-Morrison Hotel
Marillion-Fugazi
Crosby Stills Nash & Young-Deja Vu
Bruce Springsteen-Tracks 2
Neil Young-Archives Vol.2(1972-1976)
The Beach Boys-5-disc set, tentatively titled “Feel Flows”
Cream-Wheels of Fire (+ additional concert recordings)
The Doobie Brothers-Quadio (Blu-ray audio box)
Bob Dylan-The Bootleg Series Vol.16
And, of course, future archival projects by Jimi Hendrix, The Kinks, Steve Miller Band and (astonishingly) the firsr-ever release of archival material by Joni Mitchell.
Not surprisingly, all the upcoming (late August) boxed sets from the Cherry Red group of labels feature small, simple packaging (mini album covers in a clamshell box). And large format boxes from Gonzo multimedia (America & Trevor Rabin) have been postponed. The issue is obviously printing and fabricating the packaging materials.

The Stones set is definitely coming out.  Here's another reason to take this with a big grain of salt.  The author of this info - Phil Cohen.
All of which is going to be used as more reasons to stop physical product and force us all to rely on streaming and downloads.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on July 13, 2020, 12:33:13 PM
BTW for everyone who's interested in this, here is Johnny Horton's original "All for the love of a girl":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTTpIVMaP0


Who sang backgrounds on Fred's recording? At first I thought it might've been the Honeys, but now I'm not so sure. I'd need to listen with better speakers than I have right now.
Believe it or not, the female backing vocalist on the finished tracks was none other than a young Linda Rondstadt!

Also, I've heard from a reputable source that as of a couple days ago, the boxset has unfortunately been given yet another delay. I'd been hoping it'd be coming out in August in celebration of Sunflower's 50th, but if I had to guess, an October-November release date for the holiday season seems more likely. I know Howie can only tell us so much, but I would love to know what's been causing so much difficulty in the production, promotion, and ultimate release of this set!
It might have to do with that vinyl record pressing plant that burned down a couple months ago. Maybe they want to put parts of the set on vinyl, and they’re having production difficulties.
Keep in mind that I have absolutely no information, I’m just guessing here

I mean there is this weird virus going around named after a beer that's been causing all sorts of wacky chaos...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 13, 2020, 02:09:38 PM
Assuming these "Copyright Extension" releases are still working at least in part on the concept of actually protecting the copyright of some material, then they'll have to at least put something out digitally this year.

A continued economic downturn isn't something that should be ignored when putting product out, but assuming this is a 5-CD set and has even the bare minimum MSRP of such a set ($60-$75 without a bunch of extra books and slipcases and stuff) for a physical iteration, there will also be cheaper (sometimes at least) digital download options, and also many folks (even some aging BB fans) just listen to this stuff on Spotify.

I always prefer physical releases, but we're getting too old to wait for this stuff, so whatever format they can get it out there, I say do it. The second or third generation hipster BB fans that got into "Smile" in the 90s are now hitting their 50s and 60s. Mike Love is less than a year from hitting 80 years old. Even young fans now can't wait until Matt Jardine's great grandson is writing the liner notes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on July 13, 2020, 03:06:15 PM
If the box set gets pushed back to the end of this year or the beginning of next, the digital version could get released before the box itself. If packaging delays are what's holding thing up, it makes some sense to go digital first.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on July 13, 2020, 04:14:50 PM
Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on July 13, 2020, 07:05:49 PM
Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.

So what is?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 13, 2020, 07:53:51 PM
That doesn’t give me a good feeling ... hopefully it’s delayed and not cancelled


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 14, 2020, 01:43:34 PM
Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.

So what is?

The obvious implication is that there is the usual internal wrangling going on. Look Mike just sign off on the damn thing - the fact that you don't have as many songwriting credits as you were given earlier on in your career cannot be changed. Also, no good holding out for liner notes that cast you in a better light.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on July 14, 2020, 02:25:11 PM
Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.

So what is?

The obvious implication is that there is the usual internal wrangling going on. Look Mike just sign off on the damn thing - the fact that you don't have as many songwriting credits as you were given earlier on in your career cannot be changed. Also, no good holding out for liner notes that cast you in a better light.

Wouldn’t Brian, Al, and Carl’s sons have a BRI voting majority here though?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 14, 2020, 02:32:26 PM
My understanding is that new releases of previously unreleased material require unanimity - am I wrong?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 14, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
If that’s what it is, then that’s fucking ridiculous. And if Mike is the sole reason then he can go f*** himself. Some of us would like to hear this music before crossing over, ya know? In 2020 that’s not always a given


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 14, 2020, 03:42:48 PM
My understanding is that new releases of previously unreleased material require unanimity - am I wrong?

Capitol can release previously released (e.g. "original album") material without BRI approval, for 62-69 material that Capitol owns.

For previously unreleased material recorded that Capitol owns, Capitol and BRI both have to approve it, and that only requires a majority at BRI.

This "Feel Flows" set would seem to tend to include mostly post-Capitol material, which BRI owns outright and can do with as they please (requiring again only a majority vote as far as I'm aware). The only other criteria might include whether they have a standing licensing agreement with a label like Capitol/UMG that gives that label "first rights of refusal."

The "Feel Flows" set could include some crossover between Capitol and BRI-owned material; I'm not sure because we obviously don't know what might be on the set from 1969 or whenever. I would imagine Capitol/UMG will distribute any eventual set regardless.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 14, 2020, 03:45:13 PM
Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.

So what is?

The obvious implication is that there is the usual internal wrangling going on. Look Mike just sign off on the damn thing - the fact that you don't have as many songwriting credits as you were given earlier on in your career cannot be changed. Also, no good holding out for liner notes that cast you in a better light.

Wouldn’t Brian, Al, and Carl’s sons have a BRI voting majority here though?

I have no idea who or what might be holding up a set. But yes, any three of the four voting entities at BRI can carry the day. The problem is, there is very little evidence that Carl's estate has voted against Mike.

There is *one* exception; it appears for once Carl's sons finally did vote *against* Mike for BRI's sign off on the release of the "Love & Mercy" score/soundtrack (Mike discussed this in an interview a few years ago).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 14, 2020, 06:45:12 PM
Oh hey, another thread devolves into a fight over Mike Love... how wonderful


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 14, 2020, 07:35:43 PM
Oh hey, another thread devolves into a fight over Mike Love... how wonderful

Woo hoo!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 14, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Oh hey, another thread devolves into a fight over Mike Love... how wonderful

Nobody’s fighting on here. I did indeed post about Mike once it was revealed it had nothing to do with the packaging, based on past history. I hope to be proven wrong.

Again, nobody is fighting on here (and I sincerely hope it stays that way).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 15, 2020, 07:24:16 AM
Oh hey, another thread devolves into a fight over Mike Love... how wonderful

Nobody’s fighting on here. I did indeed post about Mike once it was revealed it had nothing to do with the packaging, based on past history. I hope to be proven wrong.

Again, nobody is fighting on here (and I sincerely hope it stays that way).
As the project has been “delayed,“ that implies that it had a release date. Therefore, everyone must’ve signed off on it already. So the most likely reason for the delay is packaging or marketing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 15, 2020, 09:35:08 AM
...except Howie stated on the previous page that packaging delays had nothing to do with this delay


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 15, 2020, 09:39:28 AM
Given everything going on in the world right now there could be a significant number of things holding this up that have nothing to do with Mike Love. If it is him I wouldn’t be surprised, but I’m also not going to berate the guy based off of mere speculation. Keep in mind many major projects are being pushed to late this year due to a global pandemic currently taking place. Could very well be due to that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 15, 2020, 10:34:38 AM
Very true...considering I myself am dealing with that I should know.

In any case hopefully it is just a delay


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on July 15, 2020, 12:03:39 PM
Yeah I am more surprised when things appear these days then when they don’t! I was amazed that Neil Young released Homegrown last month


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 15, 2020, 01:57:57 PM
All true - my earlier post was a bit gratuitous - I guess another likely scenario is that it's been put off for a while to allow consumer confidence to build up a little more.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 15, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
Noticed this on the EH Board. A limited reissue of ‘Ten Years Of Harmony’ due in September from Japan under Universal Music.

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/UICY-40330

Description
Reissue in Hi-Res CD format (UHQCD format x MQA technology). Features the DSD master in 2020, using US original master tapes. The DSD master is available in 352.8kHz/24bit high resolution (perfect for MQA-enabled audio players / not digitally distributed up to this time). The mini LP faithfully replicates its US first pressing LP design (gatefold), including two inner sleeves. Includes an obi faithfully replicating its Japanese first pressing LP design. Comes with lyrics and a description. Green color label coating. Available as cardboard sleeve packaging for the first time. *The disc can also be played on regular CD players in UHQCD 44.1kHz/16bit resolution. However, MQA-enabled hardware/software is necessary to harness the full potential of this Hi-Res CD.

For those that know these things, could this cause a delay in a Box Set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 15, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
Noticed this on the EH Board. A limited reissue of ‘Ten Years Of Harmony’ due in September from Japan under Universal Music.

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/UICY-40330

Description
Reissue in Hi-Res CD format (UHQCD format x MQA technology). Features the DSD master in 2020, using US original master tapes. The DSD master is available in 352.8kHz/24bit high resolution (perfect for MQA-enabled audio players / not digitally distributed up to this time). The mini LP faithfully replicates its US first pressing LP design (gatefold), including two inner sleeves. Includes an obi faithfully replicating its Japanese first pressing LP design. Comes with lyrics and a description. Green color label coating. Available as cardboard sleeve packaging for the first time. *The disc can also be played on regular CD players in UHQCD 44.1kHz/16bit resolution. However, MQA-enabled hardware/software is necessary to harness the full potential of this Hi-Res CD.

For those that know these things, could this cause a delay in a Box Set?

Exciting. Looks like this release is part of a broader series of reissues encompassing multiple greatest hits/compilation packages.

 ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on July 15, 2020, 08:07:06 PM
Yeah, I think this is something Universal Music Japan is doing independently from its US equivalent, and should not affect the feel flows box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on July 15, 2020, 08:31:42 PM
I wish some Beach Boys related higher power would just say something. Even if it’s just here for the nerds. Very very few non hardcore fans are going to buy this. You gotta be a nerd to want it. This isn’t even level 2 fandom. This is max fandom. The non hyper nerds (like us) who will buy this is extremely negligible. This is strictly for the cork sniffers. Just tell us what the heck is going on and perhaps a proposed quarter it could be released in, please!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on July 15, 2020, 11:45:45 PM
"Pursuant to the “use it or lose it” provision (Directive 2001/77/EU, Art. 3(1)), recordings are only entitled to the 20-year extension if they are offered for sale to the public before the expiration of the original 50-year term. Consequently, pre-1963 works that were not released to the public before December 31, 2012 have now fallen into the public domain in Europe."

As I undestand it, if a release in any form does not occur prior to December 31, 2020, all previuosly unreleased material will fall into the Public Domain in the EU.

An interesting side note: There were vocal sessions by Marilyn for a segment of Vegetables. This did not appear on any copyright extension release. I would be curious to know the legal status of those sessions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 16, 2020, 12:27:00 AM
My understanding of this law was that it applies on a per song basis for studio recordings.

In other words, an alternate version recording is protected as long as any recording of ghe song has seen release. Thus, say Slip On Through -all versions- are now protected due to the one release on the 1969 C E release.

That being said, I'm sure this coming box will include many songs not previously released (in addition of course to many many alternates).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2020, 01:04:35 AM
Is Fig Plucker now in the public domain?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 16, 2020, 08:49:25 AM
Noticed this on the EH Board. A limited reissue of ‘Ten Years Of Harmony’ due in September from Japan under Universal Music.

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/UICY-40330

Description
Reissue in Hi-Res CD format (UHQCD format x MQA technology). Features the DSD master in 2020, using US original master tapes. The DSD master is available in 352.8kHz/24bit high resolution (perfect for MQA-enabled audio players / not digitally distributed up to this time). The mini LP faithfully replicates its US first pressing LP design (gatefold), including two inner sleeves. Includes an obi faithfully replicating its Japanese first pressing LP design. Comes with lyrics and a description. Green color label coating. Available as cardboard sleeve packaging for the first time. *The disc can also be played on regular CD players in UHQCD 44.1kHz/16bit resolution. However, MQA-enabled hardware/software is necessary to harness the full potential of this Hi-Res CD.

For those that know these things, could this cause a delay in a Box Set?

Exciting. Looks like this release is part of a broader series of reissues encompassing multiple greatest hits/compilation packages.

 ;D

A re-re-issue of an old reissue compilation is the exact opposite of exciting in my book. The Beach Boys are all nearly 80 years old and we're still getting more hits compilations.

Can't wait for the audiophile import gold dusted high-rez reissue of this one too!:

(https://img.discogs.com/NLA0bbr2A0wab1oktBx4F-NSymc=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-9660788-1484370104-2059.jpeg.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 16, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
"Ten Years of Harmony" is "special" though. As far as I know, we don't have "Sea Cruise" or the title track readily available on cd. It'll be a welcome addition to my collecrion, personally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 16, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
"Ten Years of Harmony" is "special" though. As far as I know, we don't have "Sea Cruise" or the title track readily available on cd. It'll be a welcome addition to my collecrion, personally.
Yes. It's not like we've had dozens of comps focusing on their 70's output. It's still one of my favorite BB's comps.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 16, 2020, 01:28:42 PM
I mean, if someone wants to spend $40-$45 to ship this Japanese CD just to get "Sea Cruise" instead of the million other cheaper ways to snag it, have at it. I'm not even sure of the provenance of the master tapes being used for this. Are they obtaining new first-gen masters from BRI, or are they just using a Japanese sub-master tape? Will it have the weird mixes from the US CD version, or the unique 45 mixes from the UK CD version? Or neither?

"Ten Years of Harmony" is an interesting comp, no question. Just like some fans became fans based on other comps (I remember "Sunshine Dream" being a favorite), I'm sure some folks had "Ten Years..." as their first taste of post-60s stuff.

I guess I am surprised that they legitimately got clearances for stuff like "River Song", which is owned by Guercio/Sony.

But obviously my main point was not so much that stuff like this is objectionable, but rather that reissues and compilations are not what the band and its legacy and its fans need. All hands should be on deck opening up the archives. Then when an international label starts reissuing old Radio Shack comps and stuff, we'll be able to just laugh rather than be annoyed that *this* is what we get instead of <fill in the blank with about a million projects>.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 16, 2020, 02:22:11 PM
In other words, an alternate version recording is protected as long as any recording of ghe song has seen release. Thus, say Slip On Through -all versions- are now protected due to the one release on the 1969 C E release.

I don't know why I said (typed) Slip On Through. My bad. I meant an example like I'm Going Your Way (California Slide) ie. a previously unreleased track.

 ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 16, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
Is Fig Plucker now in the public domain?

I'd say yes. Go for it - why don't you organise a European release of that one great outtake - knock yourself out.*

* = Not intended as legal advice, for that you need to pay $$!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2020, 03:32:30 PM
So technically I could sneak that one in there as a bonus track on an album (not the original recording)?

Asking for a friend... :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 16, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
So technically I could sneak that one in there as a bonus track on an album (not the original recording)?

Asking for a friend... :lol

Sure, why not? I'll go with, yes (in Europe). But I haven't gone to the trouble of reviewing the relevant laws, just based on my reading of news reports at the time they were introduced.

Tell your "friend"  ;) he/she has TheTojo's imprimatur!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 16, 2020, 05:44:35 PM
I mean, if someone wants to spend $40-$45 to ship this Japanese CD just to get "Sea Cruise" instead of the million other cheaper ways to snag it, have at it. I'm not even sure of the provenance of the master tapes being used for this. Are they obtaining new first-gen masters from BRI, or are they just using a Japanese sub-master tape? Will it have the weird mixes from the US CD version, or the unique 45 mixes from the UK CD version? Or neither?

"Ten Years of Harmony" is an interesting comp, no question. Just like some fans became fans based on other comps (I remember "Sunshine Dream" being a favorite), I'm sure some folks had "Ten Years..." as their first taste of post-60s stuff.

I guess I am surprised that they legitimately got clearances for stuff like "River Song", which is owned by Guercio/Sony.

But obviously my main point was no so much that stuff like this is objectionable, but rather that reissues and compilations are not what the band and its legacy and its fans need. All hands should be on deck opening up the archives. Then when an international label starts reissuing old Radio Shack comps and stuff, we'll be able to just laugh rather than be annoyed that *this* is what we get instead of <fill in the blank with about a million projects>.
This takes me back to 2001-2010, where all we got were endless compilations of old material we had heard over and over again, maybe with a random new stereo mix or curiosity thrown in there from time to time. Let us go down the list...
The Very Best of the Beach Boys
Classics selected by Brian Wilson
Sounds of Summer: The Very Best of The Beach Boys
The Platinum Collection (Sounds of Summer Edition)
Good Vibrations: 40th Anniversary Edition
The Warmth of the Sun
The Original US Singles Collection The Capitol Years 1962–1965
Summer Love Songs
So I’m just grateful that we got a TUN of new vault clearing between 2011-2019, and hope it continues.
I’m very optimistic.
We’ve got a title: Feel Flows
We’ve got possible included material: 1969-1971, Sunflower and Surfs’ Up
We’ve got a possible length: 5 CDs
We’ve got previews of two possible inclusions: new mixes of San Miguel and Cotton Fields (Single)
We’ve got more info: Fred mentioning that they might put a part of his country project on there.
We’ve got a possible release window: Fall 2020]
So I say we’ve got a 85% chance of getting something before December 31.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on July 16, 2020, 06:31:39 PM
"Ten Years of Harmony" is "special" though. As far as I know, we don't have "Sea Cruise" or the title track readily available on cd. It'll be a welcome addition to my collecrion, personally.

Which title track?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2020, 08:45:43 PM
Didn’t Bruce have a song written called Ten Years Harmony that was reworked after Endless Harmony on KTSA?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on July 16, 2020, 08:46:11 PM
"Ten Years of Harmony" is "special" though. As far as I know, we don't have "Sea Cruise" or the title track readily available on cd. It'll be a welcome addition to my collecrion, personally.

Which title track?

Looks like they are saying the title track is ten years of harmony. I didn’t know that was ever released officially. Perhaps this is the first time?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 16, 2020, 11:16:55 PM
Didn’t Bruce have a song written called Ten Years Harmony that was reworked after Endless Harmony on KTSA?

You mean this?

https://youtu.be/iOdfXisA9go


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2020, 01:43:42 AM
Yup that’s the one


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on July 17, 2020, 07:27:01 AM
"Ten Years of Harmony" is "special" though. As far as I know, we don't have "Sea Cruise" or the title track readily available on cd. It'll be a welcome addition to my collecrion, personally.

Which title track?

Looks like they are saying the title track is ten years of harmony. I didn’t know that was ever released officially. Perhaps this is the first time?

That song was not on the original LP lineup, or the subsequent CD release. I don't expect it to be included in this new Japanese release either. The promo blurb linked above doesn't include a track lineup.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wata on July 17, 2020, 07:44:16 AM
https://www.universal-music.co.jp/beach-boys/products/uicy-40330/ (https://www.universal-music.co.jp/beach-boys/products/uicy-40330/)

This site has the official tracklist for the comp (in Japanese), which does not include the song Ten Years of Harmony.

By the way, Ten Years of Harmony (the song) was released on the single "Don't Worry Baby/Ten Years of Harmony" by California Music in 1974, and it is available on the CD "California Music & Disney Girls : RCA/Equinox Collection" released in 2000.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 17, 2020, 08:40:05 AM
Okay, well the automated Google translation of the Japanese track listing is kinda funny in a few spots. Can't wait for Bruce's classic "Deadla", and Al's opus "Linda of the Autumn Wind." Brian's songs end up being puns like "This Hole World" and "Seeds God Rhythm."  

1
Add Some Music To Your Day

2
Roller Skating Child

3
Desnie girl

4
It's A Beautiful Day

5
California Saga/California

6
Woncha Come Out Tonight

7
Marcella

8
Rock and roll music

9
Go In On

10
It's okay

11
Cool cool water

12
San Miguel

13
School day

14
Good timing

15
Sail on sailor

Disc 2

1
Darling

2
Linda of the Autumn Wind

3
Sea cruise

4
The Trader

5
This Hole World

6
Don't Go Near The Water

7
Surfs up

8
Come Go With Me

9
Deadla

10
Seeds Got Rhythm

11
River song

12
Long Promist Road

13
Feel Flows

14
Till I Die


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on July 17, 2020, 08:54:28 AM
"9
Go In On" would be much funnier as "Goin' On In".  >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
I don't know why, but I swore Ten Years of Harmony(the song) was released on that album. Was it released on any Beach Boys related album?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 17, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
A statement on why the set is being held up would go a long way in this case...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on July 17, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
Or even release a teaser for it with “coming soon”. It is just ridiculous...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 17, 2020, 09:42:42 AM
A statement on why the set is being held up would go a long way in this case...
They’re not gonna tell you why it’s being held up, because it was never announced in the first place. Even though we have a lot of information about it, there still has been absolutely no official press release from capital, or from BRI, or no pre-orders, or nothing like that. So technically, even though it may have been internally delayed, it hasn’t been delayed to the public, because it was never officially announced.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 17, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
While there have been no official press releases regarding any set, some members of the band *have* mentioned it in interviews.

All I can add at the moment is that, considering that other physical releases of movies/music (and other products; toys, etc.) continue to make it out there and continue to be slated for the coming months, I think it's *very very* unlikely that any delay on any BB set would have anything to do with COVID.

McCartney is putting out a reissue set in a few weeks that has about 87 different swag elements; 7 total discs, slipcases, books, photos, reproductions of his 1997 medical records, and so on. Far more expensive and elaborate than any BB set might be. So this stuff is making it out there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2020, 10:20:42 AM
To be honest I'm not really a fan of releases in several different CD formats, simply because it's to confusing to decide on which one to get. lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
I just want the damn thing lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 17, 2020, 12:22:56 PM
I don't know why, but I swore Ten Years of Harmony(the song) was released on that album. Was it released on any Beach Boys related album?

You sure you’re not getting confused with ‘Endless Harmony’ from 1980 and the KTSA album?

https://youtu.be/g-ZwFUCX44I


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2020, 01:04:04 PM
I don't know why, but I swore Ten Years of Harmony(the song) was released on that album. Was it released on any Beach Boys related album?

You sure you’re not getting confused with ‘Endless Harmony’ from 1980 and the KTSA album?

https://youtu.be/g-ZwFUCX44I
Positive. I remember seeing "Ten Years Harmony" being listed on a Beach Boys comp once, on ebay.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 17, 2020, 02:10:19 PM
Nothing ‘Official ‘ that I can find. Only the California Music version. Someone else might know though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 17, 2020, 03:01:12 PM
Nothing ‘Official ‘ that I can find. Only the California Music version. Someone else might know though.

I agree, nothing official until that California Music release (which was preceded by at least 2 CM boots, either or both of which might have included it).

There were some odd stray tracks on the Polyphone label boots of 1990, including some Bruce tracks, but I don't recall Ten Years Harmony being amongst them. I'd have to check. Pretty certain no official release under the Beach Boys name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
It might be the Mandela effect, but I swear I remember reading it being part of a comp of the same name along with different mixes of some tracks, in Andrew Doe's book. Course I no longer have it so I can't double check.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on July 17, 2020, 08:35:10 PM
In this day and age, we need all the previously unreleased Beach Boys material we can get! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2020, 08:51:52 PM
In this day and age, we need all the previously unreleased Beach Boys material we can get! 

That is the truth, my friend.

That, and some good old love and mercy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on July 17, 2020, 08:55:09 PM
It might be the Mandela effect, but I swear I remember reading it being part of a comp of the same name along with different mixes of some tracks, in Andrew Doe's book. Course I no longer have it so I can't double check.

I’m going to guess Mandela because both versions of this set had different mixes/versions for various songs. Could that be what you’re thinking of, Billy C?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2020, 09:10:01 PM
Possibly. Probably. Most likely :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on July 18, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
I am still sitting here waiting for the online sessionography we were supposed to get with MiC.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 18, 2020, 06:20:45 PM
It might be the Mandela effect, but I swear I remember reading it being part of a comp of the same name along with different mixes of some tracks, in Andrew Doe's book. Course I no longer have it so I can't double check.
x

I’m going to guess Mandela because both versions of this set had different mixes/versions for various songs. Could that be what you’re thinking of, Billy C?
I think perhaps in my case I might have confused it with San Miguel.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 18, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
Yeah....Too many San Miguels confuses me at times as well. ;D  :beer :beer :beer


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 27, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
Really hoped we would have had some official word on this by now. I'd kill for a track list - not literally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 27, 2020, 01:32:13 PM
Really hoped we would have had some official word on this by now. I'd kill for a track list - not literally.
Just take off your facemask and breathe on the person who's got it  :lol :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on July 27, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 27, 2020, 03:01:40 PM
FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.

To those who have worked on this, thank you! (And a simple thank you doesn't do any of that work justice, I know).

To those that can make this thing happen to actually get it in our hands, do it! Now's the perfect time. NOW. Nothing will make this better or better-timed if it happens a year from now.

For that matter, and I'm just going purely off of my educated guess based on past years' "copyright extension" drops, I'd have to imagine if they *don't* get this box out by the end of year, they'd presumably have to part some of the tracks out and do a momentum-killing digital download drop on like December 30th that just cherry picks the stuff that *has* to be released. I can't imagine why the band wouldn't know this, but doing it that way would kill the momentum of the full boxed set (not to mention annoying/alienating fans who will buy the digital stuff and then re-buy that same material on the box at a later date).

Get this thing out now! Make it a November/December drop; it's got to be possible. Announce it ASAP. Drop digital singles to Spotify and YouTube and hype this thing! Make other bloated boxed sets look bad!

We're not getting any younger.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 27, 2020, 03:57:05 PM
FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.

Is this a confirmation of the name? I can't remember if that was confirmed yet or not. Regardless, thanks for keeping us updated on this, and I can't wait to hear it all. Especially anything that has to do with 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree'!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 27, 2020, 04:56:30 PM
So the question still remains why is it still sitting on the shelf to the point where there hasn't even been a projected time frame for a release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 27, 2020, 06:17:09 PM
From my industry sources, Feel Flows had numerous projected release dates that were pushed at the last minute. The buzz is that this is the logical third part of the Pet Sounds / Smile "triptych," with the "1970/71" package showing the entire band at their best as songwriters and producers. If BRI wants to capitalize on, or monetize their assets, missing this moment with THIS material will screw up the next five years. No doubt.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 27, 2020, 06:52:28 PM
FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.


Awesome..:looking forward to it 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 27, 2020, 09:29:29 PM
FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.

To those who have worked on this, thank you! (And a simple thank you doesn't do any of that work justice, I know).

To those that can make this thing happen to actually get it in our hands, do it! Now's the perfect time. NOW. Nothing will make this better or better-timed if it happens a year from now.

For that matter, and I'm just going purely off of my educated guess based on past years' "copyright extension" drops, I'd have to imagine if they *don't* get this box out by the end of year, they'd presumably have to part some of the tracks out and do a momentum-killing digital download drop on like December 30th that just cherry picks the stuff that *has* to be released. I can't imagine why the band wouldn't know this, but doing it that way would kill the momentum of the full boxed set (not to mention annoying/alienating fans who will buy the digital stuff and then re-buy that same material on the box at a later date).

Get this thing out now! Make it a November/December drop; it's got to be possible. Announce it ASAP. Drop digital singles to Spotify and YouTube and hype this thing! Make other bloated boxed sets look bad!

We're not getting any younger.

You are so right.

I hope it's not some silly, overthinking record label/political nonsense that is causing a delay. If they are looking for "the perfect" time to release it for maximum sales, there's no better time than the present. All rules are out the window in the era that we live in right now, that's for sure.

I do wonder what could be causing the delay, though.

But in any case, I'm overjoyed that this is going to come out. It sounds like this is going to be another real legacy game changer.

This could be just what the world needs right now, some beautiful healing unheard vintage BBs music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Conspiracy Jim on July 28, 2020, 03:28:11 AM
Genuinely excited for this. If Made In California's trove of unreleased tracks was an hors d'oeuvre, I'm guessing this is two main courses and possibly dessert.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 28, 2020, 04:28:03 AM
If Mr Linett's statement about an autumn release still holds true, and since the box is now apparently complete, we may be seeing something about it in the coming month. The first Beach Boys product to be officially mentioned beforehand since that Royal Philharmonic Orchestra album two years back.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 10:34:57 AM
My gut is still telling me it’ll be around record store day, so late November. Mainly because, seeing as there is, you know, a deadly pandemic, people on that day will be more likely to go online, and if the BBs release a brand new five disc plus vinyl set on that day, people will be more likely to buy it. Also, in 2015, they released the party set a week before record store day. So that could be likely as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 28, 2020, 10:56:06 AM
My gut is still telling me it’ll be around record store day, so late November. Mainly because, seeing as there is, you know, a deadly pandemic, people on that day will be more likely to go online, and if the BBs release a brand new five disc plus vinyl set on that day, people will be more likely to buy it. Also, in 2015, they released the party set a week before record store day. So that could be likely as well.


Maybe that's it. If they are looking to try to capitalize on people being sympathetic towards record stores being driven even further out of business by the pandemic, maybe they think they will get extra sales that way. But I'm sure the price of the set will be somewhat hefty, so I'm not sure that's going to make much of a difference to get people to make an impulse buy.

Hardcore fans are either going to buy it or they're not going to buy it. (Hopefully they will!)

And this box set needs some proper press and promotion. No doubt there will be viral promotion, where fans are going to be gushing about it online, and people will hear about it that way. But I sure hope that the powers that be go the extra mile to get it some press in bigger publications. I'm sure this material deserves it. And the brand deserves positive press to get various antics the brand has been associated with during 2020 out of people's minds.

Nevertheless, the record store day theory might be the reason why there's a delay. Or perhaps one of several reasons. Inquiring minds want to know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on July 28, 2020, 11:07:06 AM
October-November is the most likely release date now, according to sources.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 11:49:21 AM
My gut is still telling me it’ll be around record store day, so late November. Mainly because, seeing as there is, you know, a deadly pandemic, people on that day will be more likely to go online, and if the BBs release a brand new five disc plus vinyl set on that day, people will be more likely to buy it. Also, in 2015, they released the party set a week before record store day. So that could be likely as well.


Maybe that's it. If they are looking to try to capitalize on people being sympathetic towards record stores being driven even further out of business by the pandemic, maybe they think they will get extra sales that way. But I'm sure the price of the set will be somewhat hefty, so I'm not sure that's going to make much of a difference to get people to make an impulse buy.

Hardcore fans are either going to buy it or they're not going to buy it. (Hopefully they will!)

And this box set needs some proper press and promotion. No doubt there will be viral promotion, where fans are going to be gushing about it online, and people will hear about it that way. But I sure hope that the powers that be go the extra mile to get it some press in bigger publications. I'm sure this material deserves it. And the brand deserves positive press to get various antics the brand has been associated with during 2020 out of people's minds.

Nevertheless, the record store day theory might be the reason why there's a delay. Or perhaps one of several reasons. Inquiring minds want to know.
I mean, I think it makes some sense. If people go to the record store, and there’s a whole bunch of discounts, and they’re browsing and see a brand spanking new fire 5 CD 2LP beach boys set, They would have a good reason to buy it.
Also, maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I’m really hoping that it has a version that has all five CDs, with the albums and all the new material on them, and then to LPs both with the new remixed Sunflower and Surfs Upalbums on them. Easily worth $129-149


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 11:52:34 AM
Honestly, the only thing I’m worried about is them messing up a remix to All I Wanna Do.
I have faith, but every other track seems pretty easy to remix. For example, there’s not a lot of ways to mess up a forever remix, or a tears in the morning remix. But All I Wanna Do is such an intricate and produce to perfection song, but if done even slightly wrong, a new remix can Destroy the mood and feeling of the original.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 28, 2020, 12:44:18 PM
Folks, I really think you've got think about this and also re-read some previous posts.

My advice would be to assume at the moment that this is *not* on any release schedule, that it's sitting there waiting to be released and that a number of opportunities could be missed or bungled if this set continues to be held (and obviously even more so if it just never comes out). As previously mentioned, if the box doesn't come out before year-end, they'll probably have to barf out another last-minute minimalist digital drop of *only* the material that has to be released before year end. Best case scenario at that point is that momentum and publicity is lost if/when a big box actually comes out. Worst case, and this is just my guess about one possibility, is that the box never happens because whatever/whomever is currently holding up the box would then just point out that the stuff that *has* to be released has already been released.

Read some previous posts.

From my industry sources, Feel Flows had numerous projected release dates that were pushed at the last minute.

What has happened thus far doesn't appear to just be the normal cycle for releasing such sets. The dates getting pushed is *not*, as far as I've been made aware, due to packaging issues or COVID delays.

This set has been done and is getting back-burnered. We need to let the band and other powers that be know that this set is heavily desired, and it would be best to get this thing out *now* (meaning this year), that that this material *DESERVES* this type of treatment rather than a December 31st Spotify dump of a hand full of tracks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 28, 2020, 12:52:42 PM
So it's someone in the band holding it up, or the label? That's all that can be assumed right now.

I guess people like me are remembering back 25 years to when the Pet Sounds Sessions was also reported as "ready to go" multiple times and then it got held up for reasons that were reported fell squarely on a band member's objections to the liner notes. I really hope that isn't the case here. But deja vu is feeling strong on this one, which is why it would be good to at least get an update.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 28, 2020, 01:05:27 PM
I dunno, but considering Capitol/Universal has put out previous BB sets, and my own gut that they'd have no problem releasing a set that's just sitting there finished waiting to be released, I don't think someone would be out of line for guessing/assuming it's not the label that's holding things up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 28, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
That's as a good a guess as any. This is a period of the BB's career when all members were contributing, well, maybe not equally, but it's the closest they ever came to that. So does someone still feel that they are being underrepresented?
Well, if all else fails, they can give us another Pet Sounds box. The 25th anniversary of the 30th anniversary box set.  :lol ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 28, 2020, 02:23:47 PM

Well, if all else fails, they can give us another Pet Sounds box. The 25th anniversary of the 30th anniversary box set.  :lol ;)
That reminds me of something Pete Townshend said during the Who show I saw last year. At one point he mentioned that it the was the 30th anniversary of their 25th anniversary tour.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 28, 2020, 03:39:05 PM
A few more things on this set, based on some comments here and also some comments on the other BB board that seem to be guessing/assuming certain things:

To reiterate what I mentioned before, it's important to read some of these previous posts. Simply put, there's a difference between "I wish you could hear this set" and "I can't wait for you to hear this set!"

What I feel we have now is a rallying point for fans to tell the band and other pertinent parties that this set should be released, and released now.

To be clear, this isn't about fans being impatient. We're not Veruca Salt-ing when we say the set needs to be released now. "Release the set now!" means that the set needs to be saved, and we're trying to help the band realize all of the great opportune things that could come from putting this set out, and to help them realize how foolhardy it would be to postpone or cancel the set continually. 

"Feel Flows" should be calendared for November (give or take), and BRI and Capitol/UMG should be working on arranging a live stream YouTube video round table with Howie hosting and talking to Boyd, Linett, and Brian, Al, Bruce, and Mike about this set/era/material. There are ten thousand examples in the industry to follow, only the BBs have the best material to be doing it with. Think about how little there is left to say for a panel of people doing a "Back to the Future" reunion panel discussion, and then think about how substantive a big honkin' Beach Boys boxed set with a round table discussion from the band and archive team could be.

The opportunities are endless, and all we have right now is a Japanese CD reissue of "Ten Years of Harmony" that seven completist fans will buy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 28, 2020, 04:38:37 PM
What I feel we have now is a rallying point for fans to tell the band and other pertinent parties that this set should be released, and released now.

While you’re probably right it is unbelievably stupid to me that fans would even have to get vocal about wanting this NOW. I said it recently, and I’m not trying to be morbid, but older fans have already left us, and more will follow. HeyJude or someone else said it in a previous post: we’re not getting any younger!

What does the record company think? That 10 years will go by and the world will be somehow magically filled with even more Beach Boys fans than there are now? I don’t see this band getting any more popular than they are right now. And more to that point, the younger fans who will be around in 10+ years won’t even want to buy the damn thing but instead want to stream it. Whereas the market is ripe NOW for physical sets because the completists, the boomers, the passionate fans are here now with their pocketbooks open.

Whatever is holding this up, it needs to be dealt with. Why put time into compiling all this beautiful music, with liner notes, etc, if it just keeps getting delayed?

Also what was up with ESQ claiming there was big beach boys news coming asap? And the song cover that has yet to be released?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 04:40:08 PM
A few more things on this set, based on some comments here and also some comments on the other BB board that seem to be guessing/assuming certain things:

To reiterate what I mentioned before, it's important to read some of these previous posts. Simply put, there's a difference between "I wish you could hear this set" and "I can't wait for you to hear this set!"

What I feel we have now is a rallying point for fans to tell the band and other pertinent parties that this set should be released, and released now.

To be clear, this isn't about fans being impatient. We're not Veruca Salt-ing when we say the set needs to be released now. "Release the set now!" means that the set needs to be saved, and we're trying to help the band realize all of the great opportune things that could come from putting this set out, and to help them realize how foolhardy it would be to postpone or cancel the set continually. 

"Feel Flows" should be calendared for November (give or take), and BRI and Capitol/UMG should be working on arranging a live stream YouTube video round table with Howie hosting and talking to Boyd, Linett, and Brian, Al, Bruce, and Mike about this set/era/material. There are ten thousand examples in the industry to follow, only the BBs have the best material to be doing it with. Think about how little there is left to say for a panel of people doing a "Back to the Future" reunion panel discussion, and then think about how substantive a big honkin' Beach Boys boxed set with a round table discussion from the band and archive team could be.

The opportunities are endless, and all we have right now is a Japanese CD reissue of "Ten Years of Harmony" that seven completist fans will buy.
Eh, I doubt it. They’re probably just waiting for the perfect time to release it. They couldn’t release it in the spring, because of the pandemic. They could release it right now, but it probably wouldn’t get as many purchases as they’re hoping it will. So the best time to release it is right around Black Friday, that November December time frame.
I highly doubt that it’s because of band politics. It might be, but I highly doubt that.
Also, if it truly has been packaged, mixed, mastered, and there’s artwork and everything already made, they have to at least release something to recuperate their money on making the set. This stuff ain’t free.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on July 28, 2020, 04:58:08 PM
I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years. 

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 28, 2020, 05:53:11 PM
Oh?......  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 28, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
A few more things on this set, based on some comments here and also some comments on the other BB board that seem to be guessing/assuming certain things:

To reiterate what I mentioned before, it's important to read some of these previous posts. Simply put, there's a difference between "I wish you could hear this set" and "I can't wait for you to hear this set!"

What I feel we have now is a rallying point for fans to tell the band and other pertinent parties that this set should be released, and released now.

To be clear, this isn't about fans being impatient. We're not Veruca Salt-ing when we say the set needs to be released now. "Release the set now!" means that the set needs to be saved, and we're trying to help the band realize all of the great opportune things that could come from putting this set out, and to help them realize how foolhardy it would be to postpone or cancel the set continually. 

"Feel Flows" should be calendared for November (give or take), and BRI and Capitol/UMG should be working on arranging a live stream YouTube video round table with Howie hosting and talking to Boyd, Linett, and Brian, Al, Bruce, and Mike about this set/era/material. There are ten thousand examples in the industry to follow, only the BBs have the best material to be doing it with. Think about how little there is left to say for a panel of people doing a "Back to the Future" reunion panel discussion, and then think about how substantive a big honkin' Beach Boys boxed set with a round table discussion from the band and archive team could be.

The opportunities are endless, and all we have right now is a Japanese CD reissue of "Ten Years of Harmony" that seven completist fans will buy.

I think a panel discussion would be great, but tell Mike to leave the matching Robert Graham shirts in Tahoe this time. Although if things remain as they are, it would still be a hilarious look for a Zoom video meeting to have two dudes wearing matching stripes and the other two not.

It would be helpful *if* fans wished to contact people about getting on the stick and releasing this to know who to contact, as in who is actually holding this up if the reason is indeed a who. I'd hate to see, say, Al Jardine get flooded with thousands of fan emails saying "Release this set!" and Al would be saying "It's not me!". Or whatever.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 28, 2020, 08:51:58 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but, will this likely cover the 1969-1971 era (Sunflower & Surf's Up) as indicated by this Redditor?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fCbO21-krayo8jsK_h2XxzLpcClF6SzvK--aeGFXAdwC_xJwzaOLASDudntBETVHlb_QvtHZjx9TOCsKmgXy2__DOHC0bnyAtvZmjKDp3FQgoucGzj3l7-3WYR5BrBYODOD52UkGqdzb95mOBSuYI=w1482-h349-no?authuser=0)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but, will this likely cover the 1969-1971 era (Sunflower & Surf's Up) as indicated by this Redditor?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fCbO21-krayo8jsK_h2XxzLpcClF6SzvK--aeGFXAdwC_xJwzaOLASDudntBETVHlb_QvtHZjx9TOCsKmgXy2__DOHC0bnyAtvZmjKDp3FQgoucGzj3l7-3WYR5BrBYODOD52UkGqdzb95mOBSuYI=w1482-h349-no?authuser=0)
Nope, it’s going to cover the 1987-1992 period, with never before herd unreleased material from the summer in paradise sessions


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 28, 2020, 09:15:42 PM
Nope, it’s going to cover the 1987-1992 period, with never before herd unreleased material from the summer in paradise sessions

Crud.

I was secretly hoping for box of nothing but every vocal take from the "Kokomo" session complete with backing tracks, and as a bonus to the first 5,000 sets sold: conversations about who didn't invite Brian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 28, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Nope, it’s going to cover the 1987-1992 period, with never before herd unreleased material from the summer in paradise sessions

Crud.

I was secretly hoping for box of nothing but every vocal take from the "Kokomo" session complete with backing tracks, and as a bonus to the first 5,000 sets sold: conversations about who didn't invite Brian.
Oh that’s on there too. Disk 3 is entirely dedicated to every interview clip where Mike mentions that “HE” in fact came up with the hook


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 28, 2020, 11:30:06 PM
Oh that’s on there too. Disk 3 is entirely dedicated to every interview clip where Mike mentions that “HE” in fact came up with the hook

I need to know WHEEEEEEEEEEEN I can get it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 08:32:33 AM
Eh, I doubt it. They’re probably just waiting for the perfect time to release it. They couldn’t release it in the spring, because of the pandemic.  

Unfortunately, as I mentioned previously, this isn't the case. Several release dates have been pushed back. Also, from multiple sources, I've heard delays have *zero* to do with COVID (whether we're talking scheduling or potential manufacturing delays). For that matter, purchase and consumption of both physical and digital/streaming entertainment, meaning video and music, saw and continue to see an *uptick* due to COVID due to people being cooped up at home. Like 95% of both digital and physical purchases of this boxed set would be via online/mail anyway. No major retailer would carry the thing. Other than random indie record shops, this would be a thing people would be buying on Amazon, etc. The past several months would have been a very opportune time to get the set out. That window still exists, but it and other factors are closing in.

They could release it right now, but it probably wouldn’t get as many purchases as they’re hoping it will. So the best time to release it is right around Black Friday, that November December time frame.
I highly doubt that it’s because of band politics. It might be, but I highly doubt that.
Also, if it truly has been packaged, mixed, mastered, and there’s artwork and everything already made, they have to at least release something to recuperate their money on making the set. This stuff ain’t free.

That is all presupposing a level of logic that goes against all available evidence/history with releases from this band. To even fathom under the *best* of circumstances that this is all part of a well-planned timing strategy on the part of the band ignores everything we know about how they operate. It also goes against the available evidence. Did that weird end of 2019 digital EP drop smell like that was part of a big master plan? And again, industry sources are saying multiple release dates have been pushed. The schedule, such as it exists right now (where the thing isn't on a calendar), is the exact opposite of having a master strategy to drop this at the best possible moment.

Again, it is my understanding that there are no potential packaging delays, no logistical or tactical problems with releasing the set vis-a-vis COVID, and no apparent unwillingness on the part of the record label.

Now, the idea here is that we want the band to know this thing should be put out ASAP. So the *goal* would be to see this in our hands by November (give or take). But if that happens, it'll be because we're telling them right now that the course should be altered to make that happen. And if that happens, I'll be eternally grateful to the band for making it happen. It would be a win-win-win for everybody on every side.

Every band member come out smelling like roses with this set out there and getting attention. Al, Mike, Bruce, Carl, and Dennis all will be better understood as musical forces in their own right, and anybody that doesn't already know will know that Brian was still contributing amazing material as well. Not only does the set allow for a larger reassessment of the stuff that they already put out back then, it will blow minds with all the unheard masterpieces.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 08:42:14 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but, will this likely cover the 1969-1971 era (Sunflower & Surf's Up) as indicated by this Redditor?


While there are some exceptions in the broad world of Reddit in other arenas, I wouldn't go there to get hot tips and reliable news on the Beach Boys. In particular, if a Reddit post says "I hope they release X", it strongly indicates they don't actually know what's on the set.

It's true that we've had an odd level of information about this set; it has been very gradually spoken of in slightly more specific terms over the span of seemingly a year or more, with no official announcments. But I think this is probably due to the idea that it should have already been out by now. I don't think anybody wanted to be teasing this set for 27 years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 09:26:25 AM
Two questions come to mind for me.

1. Did Howie drop by to provide new information, i.e. that the project was recently completed and is now ready to go, or is the implication that nothing has so far happened despite this being the case for ages ?

2. Mark L said back in Feb/March on that IK Multimedia livestream that they were shooting for a fall release. If several dates have already been pushed back, is the inference that we are looking at a Christmas time release at best?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on July 29, 2020, 09:50:13 AM
I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 09:58:30 AM
Many thanks to you Howie, not to mention Mark and Alan.

Sounds fantastic. Worrying to read that it is not currently scheduled for release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on July 29, 2020, 10:00:03 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on July 29, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Howie, what can we fans do to encourage the "powers that be" to set a release date and let them know how hungry we are for this product? I don't normally preorder on Amazon, but I'd gladly do so for this box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
EEK. Well that pretty much confirms the Beach Boys themselves (or some member or members of the org - Mike or Brian, I assume) put the stop to it.

And the group being Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate, right? Doesn't add up. I am assuming one person can knock it down in this case. Lame.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Howie, what can we fans do to encourage the "powers that be" to set a release date?

Well, it was just essentially confirmed the set was cancelled - without using that exact term. As far as I am reading between the lines.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.


God, insane. Thank you for the info you've posted over here recently. Are you allowed to shed any light on what's holding it up or is that a no-go? Beyond frustrating that this is just sitting there, not being heard.

Agreed, that last part about it not being scheduled for release is completely insane.

Thanks for sharing the other info, Howie. And many, many (Commandant Lassard voice) thanks for all your efforts in general with this box it. Future generations and music scholars will owe you, Mark, and Alan a huge thanks.

This needs to be released soon. I will seriously buy two copies and gift a friend with one of them.

Let's get this show on the road, Capitol! Stop waiting around for "the perfect" moment to release it. There's never going to be a perfect moment. Just do it soon and get a few months' head start viral marketing push; all music geeks have right now is time, which can be spent purchasing it, devouring it, and singing praises of this set to others.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
EEK. Well that pretty much confirms the Beach Boys themselves (or some member or members of the org - Mike or Brian, I assume) put the stop to it.

And the group being Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate, right? Doesn't add up. I am assuming one person can knock it down in this case. Lame.

Seriously hoping you're wrong, and that all that's holding it up is Capitol marketing people hemming and hawing over the best possible release date, the way movie studios are these days. I sure hope that's all it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on July 29, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Howie did you write the liners? And is Craig involved with sessionography? By the way I’ve enjoyed your fab cast this summer but they beg the question have you ever met/interviewed Paul? If so how did it go? If not, have you ever heard whether he’s heard what must be two of his biggest fans!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 29, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
Are we allowed to maybe get a small detail of two of the tracks on the box?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 11:14:33 AM
E.g. anything as revelatory as Surfs Up 1967 as appeared on Smile Sessions?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 11:16:13 AM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 11:19:12 AM
The music that we do have will never let you down Billy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 11:25:29 AM
True but I’m tired of the fans getting jerked around due to issues that should’ve been resolved decades ago. It’s gone past frustrating to the point of anger. I’ve dealt with a lot of crap in my twenty five years as a fan ; I can only imagine how those who have been fans longer must feel.

Brian will always have my support. As far as the band goes I’m almost pissed off enough to get rid of my entire collection. Not there yet.

Yet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
As I and others have said several times in just the past week, understanding that there may be reasons why it can't be mentioned, it would be very helpful to know the source(s) of why the release of this set has stalled, and therefore give fans a chance to write to whomever or whatever stalled it and express our feelings and support for a release, or complain if necessary. If even 1500 fans reach out and say we will buy this set, that's more copies than your average new jazz or bluegrass release has to sell in order to go top 5 in their respective charts today.

Another point to consider is if we tabbed up all the individual hits and readers on this board during a 24 hour span rather than the totals showing hourly as it does now, and each of those people dropped the right party a line, those figures would surprise some people I'm sure. Strength in numbers, and the core audience for a set like this reads this board regularly.

Whether it's hamburgers, sports teams, or legacy music releases, the voices of those fans and consumers holding the money carry a lot more weight than people realize. If enough people contact the right sources, things can change drastically. They just need to know who to contact so the people in the supply chain who want it to come out aren't getting flooded with emails and messages asking that it come out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 11:33:16 AM
From the post I took it that it wasn’t the label but rather it was something else. That’s why I’m so pissed off right now. Complete lack of regard for the fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 11:35:17 AM
My two cents. I think we should stop pushing Howie for information that it may be more than awkward to release.

Remember, this is The Beach Boys we’re talking about...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on July 29, 2020, 11:40:44 AM
From the post I took it that it wasn’t the label but rather it was something else. That’s why I’m so pissed off right now. Complete lack of regard for the fans.
I agree with you Billy. The band has no regard for their fans. As somebody who owns probably 15 different "versions" of Pet Sounds, I am beyond frustrated.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 11:48:26 AM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
From the post I took it that it wasn’t the label but rather it was something else. That’s why I’m so pissed off right now. Complete lack of regard for the fans.
I agree with you Billy. The band has no regard for their fans. As somebody who owns probably 15 different "versions" of Pet Sounds, I am beyond frustrated.

Again, please explain this to me. The band doesn’t owe you anything


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 12:03:52 PM
My two cents. I think we should stop pushing Howie for information that it may be more than awkward to release.

Remember, this is The Beach Boys we’re talking about...


I agree


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 12:08:36 PM
My two cents. I think we should stop pushing Howie for information that it may be more than awkward to release.

Remember, this is The Beach Boys we’re talking about...

Since I'm one of the people asking questions, let me clarify I am *not* pushing Howie in any way. If it comes off that way, I'm not doing that. What I'm saying is it would be helpful to know what's going on overall so fans can voice their opinions and contact the right people if they wish. To have both Al and Bruce specifically mention this set, in one case how the tracks were being played on the tour bus or something, then to not get any information or answers at all except the set is currently shelved is beyond frustrating.

It's a money business, if there are even a thousand fans (or the number of individual hits to this board on any given day) waving upwards of 120 bucks or more at these interests and saying "we will buy this", that's not only money but chart placement which leads to more sales once people (and the industry) sees the numbers. A label releases a new album by a jazz trumpeter, it sells 600 copies, it hits #2 on the jazz album charts...that's reality in 2020.  If even a thousand fans contact the right people on this, there's the power from the consumer base that has money ready to spend.

If it turns out not to be a label issue, and it is a band member or members doing something to oppose this, then I'd almost have to side with those who are saying they're done supporting them. If it's a label issue, both voices and and influx of money talk louder than office politics or whatever.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on July 29, 2020, 12:10:55 PM
Yeah, the logical conclusion to "the set has been worked on for two years and is finished and ready for release but it doesn't currently has a date" is "it's cancelled" and "the beach boys hate us"

If we are gonna speculate maybe we could speculate something a bit more realistic?
Maybe the biggest market for this set is the USA, and the main customers are people who shop in record stores, and the US situation at the moment means its incredibly hard to guess at which point the majority of record stores across the entire country will be able to be safely open?  

Wait sorry, I mean "Mike cancelled it because he thought a picture in the liner notes was slightly unflattering" and "Al postponed it because he wanted to redub the aeroplane on Loop De Loop"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
I’m sorry if I come off mean, but some of you people on this Board are so entitled.
Obviously I would love this set. I would love all the unreleased material that they have.
But the band and its members don’t Owe us anything. They don’t owe me the set, they’ve already given me 30 albums and dozens of compilations and other box sets.
And if you’re honestly going to stop being a fan, just because one box gets delayed or canceled, then you probably weren’t a real fan in the first place. A real fan would appreciate the music, not the politics.
And if this box does get canceled, don’t be mad because you don’t get to listen to it, be mad that people actually put work into it that is going to go unappreciated. Those are the people that are owed something


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 12:12:43 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on July 29, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
From the post I took it that it wasn’t the label but rather it was something else. That’s why I’m so pissed off right now. Complete lack of regard for the fans.
I agree with you Billy. The band has no regard for their fans. As somebody who owns probably 15 different "versions" of Pet Sounds, I am beyond frustrated.

Again, please explain this to me. The band doesn’t owe you anything

I never said that they owed me anything. I do not believe that they do. However, as a "paying customer", I think that we should have our voices heard as we have made them a lot of money over the years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
There would be no band if there were no fans spending their money for 60 years on the product the band offers them. Simple as that. If company offering a product that their consumers don't want or are disappointed with take the stance "screw you, this is what you're getting, and we don't care what you say about it", that company would either sink like a stone or would need to rethink their consumer relations and PR because those consumers would desert them in droves. That's what some fans are feeling rather than "entitlement", and I have to say I agree with them.

Or we could talk about another greatest hits package. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 12:19:54 PM
I’m sorry if I come off mean, but some of you people on this Board are so entitled.
Obviously I would love this set. I would love all the unreleased material that they have.
But the band and its members don’t Owe us anything. They don’t owe me the set, they’ve already given me 30 albums and dozens of compilations and other box sets.
And if you’re honestly going to stop being a fan, just because one box gets delayed or canceled, then you probably weren’t a real fan in the first place. A real fan would appreciate the music, not the politics.
And if this box does get canceled, don’t be mad because you don’t get to listen to it, be mad that people actually put work into it that is going to go unappreciated. Those are the people that are owed something

Not a real fan?! I’m going to try to say this as nice as possible, but if you think that way, then you are completely out of bounds.  I’m extremely pissed for those like Alan and Howie (both who are great guys )who put so much time and effort putting this together for what it looks like now, absolutely nothing.

I’m going to try to bite my tongue (fingers?) and avoid saying anything more in response to that asinine statement, as you obviously don’t know the first thing about me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:21:10 PM
From the post I took it that it wasn’t the label but rather it was something else. That’s why I’m so pissed off right now. Complete lack of regard for the fans.
I agree with you Billy. The band has no regard for their fans. As somebody who owns probably 15 different "versions" of Pet Sounds, I am beyond frustrated.

Again, please explain this to me. The band doesn’t owe you anything

I never said that they owed me anything. I do not believe that they do. However, as a "paying customer", I think that we should have our voices heard as we have made them a lot of money over the years.
Yeah but see, as a paying customer, you’ve got the product you were promised. If you pay money to buy a vinyl of pet sounds, you’re going to get a vinyl of pet sounds. I would understand being mad if this box set went out for pre-order, and then after you put money into it it was canceled, but no. You haven’t paid money for the set, the set hasn’t been bought by anyone, so you have absolutely no reason to be mad other than the fact that you feel entitled that you deserve a set just for being a fan


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 12:23:00 PM
I want the boxset dammit!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on July 29, 2020, 12:25:46 PM
No one is going to be "done" with The Beach Boys based on whether or not a box set comes out, and the label and band know this. It would probably be more constructive to discuss the topic without hyperbole and drama.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
Even then, it still doesn’t matter. You were still never promised a set. If they want to delay it, cancel it, for any reason, it’s all up to them. It doesn’t matter a reason. If they want to cancel a set because they’re not happy that track three has a weird popping sound in the left channel, they can cancel it for just that reason.
So if Mike has a problem with the liner notes, or something like that, then it’s perfectly reasonable that the set doesn’t come out.
I’m not saying that it would make me happy, because it wouldn’t.
I’m not saying that it’s the right thing to do, because it’s not.
 I’m just saying that you can’t be so entitled, and think that they “owe” you the set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 12:35:04 PM
I’m not “acting entitled”... I’m angry for the fans and for those who worked on it. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:38:18 PM
I’m sorry if I come off mean, but some of you people on this Board are so entitled.
Obviously I would love this set. I would love all the unreleased material that they have.
But the band and its members don’t Owe us anything. They don’t owe me the set, they’ve already given me 30 albums and dozens of compilations and other box sets.
And if you’re honestly going to stop being a fan, just because one box gets delayed or canceled, then you probably weren’t a real fan in the first place. A real fan would appreciate the music, not the politics.
And if this box does get canceled, don’t be mad because you don’t get to listen to it, be mad that people actually put work into it that is going to go unappreciated. Those are the people that are owed something

Not a real fan?! I’m going to try to say this as nice as possible, but if you think that way, then you are completely out of bounds.  I’m extremely pissed for those like Alan and Howie (both who are great guys )who put so much time and effort putting this together for what it looks like now, absolutely nothing.

I’m going to try to bite my tongue (fingers?) and avoid saying anything more in response to that asinine statement, as you obviously don’t know the first thing about me.
Clearly you didn’t read my whole post. You must’ve missed the part where I literally said, “ And if this box does get canceled, don’t be mad because you don’t get to listen to it, be mad that people actually put work into it that is going to go unappreciated. Those are the people that are owed something.”
There would be no band if there were no fans spending their money for 60 years on the product the band offers them. Simple as that. If company offering a product that their consumers don't want or are disappointed with take the stance "screw you, this is what you're getting, and we don't care what you say about it", that company would either sink like a stone or would need to rethink their consumer relations and PR because those consumers would desert them in droves. That's what some fans are feeling rather than "entitlement", and I have to say I agree with them.

Or we could talk about another greatest hits package.  
Yeah but see, here’s the thing. While there is a small dedicated group of fans like you and me who would love this set and eat it up, the bandmembers, the label, and everyone involved make way more money on those greatest hits packages. That’s where the real money is to be made. Is it irritating? Absolutely. But it is the truth.
No one is going to be "done" with The Beach Boys based on whether or not a box set comes out, and the label and band know this. It would probably be more constructive to discuss the topic without hyperbole and drama.
This! So basically what you people are saying is, if this box that doesn’t come out, you’re going to get rid of their whole catalog. You’re going to throw your smile sessions box out in the trash, snap your pet sounds vinyl in half, stick all the album covers in the shredder? That’s what you’re gonna do?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
I’m not “acting entitled”... I’m angry for the fans and for those who worked on it.  
I mainly just mad about the people that worked on it. The fans didn’t do anything. You haven’t paid any money for this set, you were not promised this set, so I have no reason to feel bad for you. And I’m including myself in that too, because as a fan, this does upset me. But I understand it’s my own entitlement that makes me upset.
And if it truly is canceled, of course I’m upset about that. But it’s not gonna diminish my enjoyment of the rest of their catalog


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 12:48:49 PM
I’m going to ask this again...how long have you been a fan?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on July 29, 2020, 12:49:58 PM
If you weren't there in the Wilson's garage watching them write Surfin', can you really claim to be a fan?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:51:39 PM
If you weren't there in the Wilson's garage watching them write Surfin', can you really claim to be a fan?
It was written in their living room


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 12:53:57 PM
I’m going to ask this again...how long have you been a fan?
I could tell you that I’ve been there since the very first single, or I could tell you that I’ve only become a fan in the last month. But either way, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not entitled to the set, you were never promised the set, and the only people who are justified in their anger are the people who worked on it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 01:00:09 PM
^Thats what I thought. Knew you weren’t going to answer.

There was a reason I was asking but the way you worded that proved my point anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on July 29, 2020, 01:05:17 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:07:09 PM
I’m going to ask this again...how long have you been a fan?
I could tell you that I’ve been there since the very first single, or I could tell you that I’ve only become a fan in the last month. But either way, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not entitled to the set, you were never promised the set, and the only people who are justified in their anger are the people who worked on it.

I've been following and been a part of a number of fandoms online for about 25 years, and I think it's time to retire the straw man argument that the band (or whatever the product/thing is) "doesn't owe you anything."

Nobody thinks they're legally or otherwise entitled to anything. Nobody is saying the band HAS to release anything. Fans are saying they WANT something, and they're also offering the band the advice that it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to release stuff.

The band can do whatever they want, and fans can react however they want. If a fan throws their hands up in the air because the band doesn't seem to care about them, that's entirely their prerogative. Frankly, if a band member sees a fan who is disenchanted by such things, their response in my opinion shouldn't be "I don't owe you anything", it should be to look into why fans are disenchanted and what can be done.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 01:10:02 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.


THANK YOU Jon. That’s why I was asking in the first place before I got that snide little reply.

I mean, sh*t, there’s those of us who know more that can’t say anything about it. In this case, I don’t, but there have other times I have been sworn to secrecy and couldn’t say anything, and it looks (to me anyway) that the thing that is holding this box back is the same thing.

Entitled my ass.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 01:11:46 PM
In the nature of being the kind of guy I am and not holding back - here’s my take:

*There is no way the effort and time would have been put into this for 2 years, without Capitol backing it 100%. As far as I can interpret, Howie confirmed that none of the business-related reasons were holding this up.

*There is no “delay”. This has been cancelled, or at the very least does not have a release date. If this were not to be released in summer, it would have been slated for release in November. If it is to be released in November, that would need to be planned and set now. If it is not to be released by end of year, it will not be released because the 1970 tracks will need to come out as copyright extensions.

*Mike is the logical reason why this is held up. The only reasoning I can guess is a major box set covering this period does not jibe with his branding of what "the group" is today. I hope I’m wrong on this, and this is not Mike-bashing - not my style there either. But I don’t see Carl’s sons blocking this, Al & Bruce seem to have been enthusiastic, and Brian could only benefit from the box. Sorry, but I don’t see anything else that could be happening here, but would be happy to be completely incorrect. But someone needs to come out and say it - and I’m not a Mike-basher, so I’ll be the one to say it.

The question then becomes: can one member veto the thing? I think releases have to be unanimous? If not, then this means *two* members veto’d it. Weird.

*unless there is some continued quibbling about track listing, mixes, etc. Could be there - not meaning to put it on Mike entirely, but history would seem to suggest that is most likely the deal here. I suppose Al also might have a tendency to be more concerned about how things are presented as well.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:15:42 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thank you!

And to the point of Billy asking how long someone else has been a fan, I know the point is not to say that you're only a fan if you've put X number of years in. The point is that it would seem you'd have either be a very, very new fan or you'd have to have lived in a bubble for half a century to be so incredulous as to think this boxed set is being held up by COVID or packaging, or that it's all on track and part of some master plan. This especially makes no sense when multiple credible people have specifically told you the set is not being held up due to COVID or packaging, and that release dates being pushed means what's happening right now is *not* part of a master plan.

Following up on what Jon said, this band has a unique skill for snapping defeat from the jaws of victory.

Everybody else is lined up and has already done their work or is ready to. The team that put the set together did their thing, which we know will be top notch and amazing. The label is willing to put it out. Fans have their wallets ready.

We're not asking the guys to go back and write another Pet Sounds. We're telling them "you already made five more Pet Sounds, and we'll buy them from you, and releasing the stuff will make everybody realize you were and are *all* musical geniuses."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:17:41 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 01:18:23 PM
Who can we start writing to to apply pressure?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:22:03 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

You're out of your depth on this one. It's okay to just back away. You have the guy who writes the liners and consults on these sets telling you what's going on. To continue to disagree is just trolling frankly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on July 29, 2020, 01:22:18 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:23:28 PM
Who can we start writing to to apply pressure?

Capital Records / BRI.
If it is Mike, writing to him will do nothing. Remember, this is the same guy who refused to budge on a trophy hunting event. and that was with main stream media scrutiny. I don’t think he’s gonna have any reaction to a couple fans sending him some angry letters and emails


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

You're out of your depth on this one. It's okay to just back away. You have the guy who writes the liners and consults on these sets telling you what's going on. To continue to disagree is just trolling frankly.
That was a joke. There was actually A famous hip-hop group who did that. They announced an album, and said that it was finished, and it got a lot of media attention. And instead of releasing it to the public, they sold it to the highest bidder at 2.5 million dollars. that album still hasn’t been heard by the public. The original bidder still has it, and it’s been almost 8 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Beach boys would do something like that.
But no, I’m pretty sure that the reason for the delay has something to do with the bandmembers. And as I’ve stated, if they don’t want it released, then it shouldn’t be released. At the end of the day, the final decision should be left up to the original creators of the music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 01:32:08 PM
Taking a page from current events, time to protest M&B shows until it released. OSD needs a bullhorn..... >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 01:32:30 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 01:34:05 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

Not until today’s post, no. I’d heard “rumors” but didn’t take them seriously until toda


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:34:15 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Billy bought smiley smile during the SIP era... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

You should change your name to “septic tank” , because that post was completely full of sh*t.

Hey, Alan, Howie...your work on the set means nothing...you’re entitled too, because someone on a message board said so! Ya know, I could pick up the phone and call Stephen Desper and tell him his original work meant nothing either. I wonder if he is entitled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
For the record, if Mike is the reason why this set is being delayed, there most certainly will be some level of positive reevaluation of his contributions to the band if there are various deep dive versions of "All I Wanna Do" on the set.

His underrated contributions to that song could theoretically get him new artistic cred, much in the way that he gained such after the "sunshine tomorrow" set was released - it made people including myself realize that he had some great stuff to offer during that time period which perhaps wasn't getting proper attention.

Just AIWD, just one song alone was a quantum leap for the band. Further exploration of that song, and the era in which it was birthed helps the legacy everyone in the band.

There's no doubt in my mind that every single member of the band will have moments to shine, but this is a particularly big one. And there aren't many other moments post 1970 during the history of the band where Mike could shine like this (and get positive reevaluation artistic cred) amongst the faction of fans that otherwise might not give him the time of day.

Plus, even the meat and potatoes fans of the band in general could appreciate this song more. Every time I've ever played it for any ordinary friends of mine, they are consistently blown away.

Bottom line, this box set undoubtedly will help *Mike's* legacy, *and* the legacy of the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
To put an even finer point on this, I think the band members need to realize how pure and positive this era and this release would be.

There's no villain in the story of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up"; there's no controversies. I mean, anybody can conjure negativity up if they try hard enough.

But this is an era where *everybody* in the band was not only showing up, but hitting great peaks and all displaying their talent. Bruce integrating more than he ever had, and turning in his best work. Al co-writing with the other guys and doing great vocals, and turning in stuff that only Al could have contributed (nobody else would have done "Lookin' at Tomorrow"; it's a great alternative vibe for the band), Carl and Dennis writing some of their best stuff. And Mike turns in some of the best gems of his career in this era. "All I Wanna Do" is momentous.

This is the band rolling up their sleeves and doing amazing work, of which they have largely gone unrecognized all these years. This stuff might as well be their "Smile." And that's just the *released* material. The archival, previously-unreleased material amps this up a million fold. Unlike other bands who do archival packages who end up relegated to faking "outtakes" by doing the "Alternate Mix with 10% less Flugelhorn", this band has albums worth of life-affirming, jaw-dropping material. It truly puts any other band's unreleased archive to shame. And it CHANGES the story, for the masses anyway.

And sets like this would pave the way for further reassessments of other eras/albums.  There truly is stuff even from the 80s and 90s that we haven't heard that would change the story as well.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

You should change your name to “septic tank” , because that post was completely full of sh*t.

Hey, Alan, Howie...your work on the set means nothing...you’re entitled too, because someone on a message board said so! Ya know, I could pick up the phone and call Stephen Desper and tell him his original work meant nothing either. I wonder if he is entitled.
I never said their work was not important, however, they should not have the final say on what happens to the set. That’s the thing about modifying other peoples art, you have to have the original creators permission. And clearly, in this case, the original creators of the music are not giving their permission.
This is the same reason why albums released after people die bother me as well. They didn’t have a say in if the public heard that or not


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:50:01 PM

I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

What a sh*tty thing to tell the people who work on this stuff and champion in. As many have said, without Jon Stebbins, Dennis Wilson would still be a little asterisk in group bios instead of revered as he is now.

If everybody just rolled over and let the band do what they want, and never championed anything, we'd currently be about a thousand tracks lighter in our Beach Boys collections. There would be no game-changing biographies. No "Good Vibrations" boxed set. No "Endless Harmony Soundtrack." No "Smile" box. No "Pet Sounds" sessions. No "Made in California." No copyright extension sets.

If your take-away from all of this is that everybody but four living Beach Boys are "entitled" for championing releasing amazing material, then you just don't get it. You'll always have "Sounds of Summer" on Spotify.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 01:53:22 PM
I never said their work was not important, however, they should not have the final say on what happens to the set. That’s the thing about modifying other peoples art, you have to have the original creators permission. And clearly, in this case, the original creators of the music are not giving their permission.
This is the same reason why albums released after people die bother me as well. They didn’t have a say in if the public heard that or not

You are *so* not getting this at all. Do you really think anybody here is unaware that the band have to agree to release stuff?

The reason "The Day the Clown Cried" never got released is because Jerry Lewis didn't want it out.

The reason BB releases are devised, compiled, completed, years of work put in, and then back-burnered is *not* as simple as someone just all of a sudden deciding they don't ever want it out, full stop. Nobody's trying to put something out against anybody's wishes. *That's* why this situation is even more frustrating, but *also* why people are still trying to convince whomever they can to make the release happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 01:54:04 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

The quote was "It is currently NOT scheduled for release."

You can use the word "cancelled", or come up with something more palatable if you prefer. "Indefinitely postponed"? Maybe an optimistic "Awaiting a rescheduled release date"? Perhaps "Never existed in completed form in the first place"?

If there is no November release date set, it will not be released - in my opinion. They will have to release the 1970 material as a copyright dump by 12/31. Notice Howie did not mention anything about discs and packaging manufactured. In order for these things to occur, the release date most certainly would have to be set sometime very very soon. This is not sitting in a warehouse waiting to be released on the world. Sounds cancelled to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 01:55:36 PM

I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

What a sh*tty thing to tell the people who work on this stuff and champion in. As many have said, without Jon Stebbins, Dennis Wilson would still be a little asterisk in group bios instead of revered as he is now.

If everybody just rolled over and let the band do what they want, and never championed anything, we'd currently be about a thousand tracks lighter in our Beach Boys collections. There would be no game-changing biographies. No "Good Vibrations" boxed set. No "Endless Harmony Soundtrack." No "Smile" box. No "Pet Sounds" sessions. No "Made in California." No copyright extension sets.

If you're take-away from all of this is that everybody but four living Beach Boys are "entitled" for championing releasing amazing material, then you just don't get it. You'll always have "Sounds of Summer" on Spotify.
I’m not discrediting the amazing work that people who have worked on all of these box sets and releases have done. However, Morley, I believe that if the original creator doesn’t agree with it being released, then it shouldn’t be released.
If some of the bandmembers have objections to this box set being released, then it just shouldn’t be released. obviously I want it released, as I find this period of their courier absolutely fascinating. however, as I stated before, if the bandmembers don’t want it out there, then neither do I


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 01:57:55 PM
To put an even finer point on this, I think the band members need to realize how pure and positive this era and this release would be.

There's no villain in the story of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up"; there's no controversies. I mean, anybody can conjure negativity up if they try hard enough.

But this is an era where *everybody* in the band was not only showing up, but hitting great peaks and all displaying their talent. Bruce integrating more than he ever had, and turning in his best work. Al co-writing with the other guys and doing great vocals, and turning in stuff that only Al could have contributed (nobody else would have done "Lookin' at Tomorrow"; it's a great alternative vibe for the band), Carl and Dennis writing some of their best stuff. And Mike turns in some of the best gems of his career in this era. "All I Wanna Do" is momentous.

This is the band rolling up their sleeves and doing amazing work, of which they have largely gone unrecognized all these years. This stuff might as well be their "Smile." And that's just the *released* material. The archival, previously-unreleased material amps this up a million fold. Unlike other bands who do archival packages who end up relegated to faking "outtakes" by doing the "Alternate Mix with 10% less Flugelhorn", this band has albums worth of life-affirming, jaw-dropping material. It truly puts any other band's unreleased archive to shame. And it CHANGES the story, for the masses anyway.

And sets like this would pave the way for further reassessments of other eras/albums.  There truly is stuff even from the 80s and 90s that we haven't heard that would change the story as well.



Just to add fodder to this - I met Al last year after a show, and said something about him not playing "Lookin At Tomorrow", and he seemed to be taken aback and almost offended that I mentioned the song. He said something like "No, no ... that song is a downer/too negative, it doesn't fit ..." and trailed off. It was actually really odd ha. So, you never know I guess ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 02:00:10 PM
Are we getting “SIP naked” instead? I miss GF’s mock cover of it...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

The quote was "It is currently NOT scheduled for release."

You can use the word "cancelled", or come up with something more palatable if you prefer. "Indefinitely postponed"? Maybe an optimistic "Awaiting a rescheduled release date"? Perhaps "Never existed in completed form in the first place"?

If there is no November release date set, it will not be released - in my opinion. They will have to release the 1970 material as a copyright dump by 12/31. Notice Howie did not mention anything about discs and packaging manufactured. In order for these things to occur, the release date most certainly would have to be set sometime very very soon. This is not sitting in a warehouse waiting to be released on the world. Sounds cancelled to me.
As someone who is pretty young, and knows quite a bit about the record industry, allow me to say that they don’t really need that much time to set a date. They could finish it, and release it a week later. With the way that technology is today, that’s what the majority of artists do. The majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released. It’s the same with these box sets as well. It might not be finished, they might still be making last-minute changes before they put it out to the public. We don’t know. They might not have a date, and come up with one on November 1.
But again, just because there isn’t a date at this moment, doesn’t mean there won’t be a date before the end of the year. They don’t have to set these things up months in advance anymore.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on July 29, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 02:03:45 PM
I’m not discrediting the amazing work that people who have worked on all of these box sets and releases have done. However, Morley, I believe that if the original creator doesn’t agree with it being released, then it shouldn’t be released.
If some of the bandmembers have objections to this box set being released, then it just shouldn’t be released. obviously I want it released, as I find this period of their courier absolutely fascinating. however, as I stated before, if the bandmembers don’t want it out there, then neither do I

You're being too reductive in your reasoning here.

There are more possible scenarios for a release being held up than an outright objection to it existing or ever coming out.

Think about something like the "Pet Sounds Sessions" boxed set; the issue was not that anybody objected to it being released. It was a hang-up about liner notes. (To be VERY clear, liner notes or other content are, as we've been saying, *not* the hang-up with "Feel Flows.")

What if a band has a member whose mystical numerologist tells them every date available is a bad date to release the set? Is that still reasonable? (Again, this is nothing to do with "Feel Flows", just an example of one of MANY things that can hang these projects up outside of objecting to actual content).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

The quote was "It is currently NOT scheduled for release."

You can use the word "cancelled", or come up with something more palatable if you prefer. "Indefinitely postponed"? Maybe an optimistic "Awaiting a rescheduled release date"? Perhaps "Never existed in completed form in the first place"?

If there is no November release date set, it will not be released - in my opinion. They will have to release the 1970 material as a copyright dump by 12/31. Notice Howie did not mention anything about discs and packaging manufactured. In order for these things to occur, the release date most certainly would have to be set sometime very very soon. This is not sitting in a warehouse waiting to be released on the world. Sounds cancelled to me.
As someone who is pretty young, and knows quite a bit about the record industry, allow me to say that they don’t really need that much time to set a date. They could finish it, and release it a week later. With the way that technology is today, that’s what the majority of artists do. The majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released. It’s the same with these box sets as well. It might not be finished, they might still be making last-minute changes before they put it out to the public. We don’t know. They might not have a date, and come up with one on November 1.
But again, just because there isn’t a date at this moment, doesn’t mean there won’t be a date before the end of the year. They don’t have to set these things up months in advance anymore.

I don't get the "as someone who is pretty young" comment. How is that relevant? Just curious because I'm not really following ...

Pressing thousands of discs and packaging can take a few months. If there's any vinyl involved, it can take a really long time. I've pressed records and tapes myself in recent years.

I think you're gonna need to qualify "the majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released" ha. Not if there is any physical media, they don't. That is technically impossible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:05:05 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 02:09:16 PM
As someone who is pretty young, and knows quite a bit about the record industry, allow me to say that they don’t really need that much time to set a date. They could finish it, and release it a week later. With the way that technology is today, that’s what the majority of artists do. The majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released. It’s the same with these box sets as well. It might not be finished, they might still be making last-minute changes before they put it out to the public. We don’t know. They might not have a date, and come up with one on November 1.
But again, just because there isn’t a date at this moment, doesn’t mean there won’t be a date before the end of the year. They don’t have to set these things up months in advance anymore.

Stop it, please. You have people who worked ON THIS SET speaking about it on this board, and you're implying you might know more. You don't. Not on this. Just stop. It's trolling, whether you realize it or not.

And as someone else pointed out, a *physical boxed set* release (which is the whole point of this, to *not* just do a digital dump), with multiple discs inside of a box with a book, etc., absolutely does take some lead time. They cannot decide to release it, and then have it out a week later.

I somehow doubt you know the 2020 internal scheduling for Capitol/UMG as far as lead time with manufacturing, promotion, etc. Guess who does know, and guess who surely knows precisely what timing is needed or required? The people who worked on the set, including someone who posted in this thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 02:10:41 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.


No it doesn't. Go away please.

I think we need to ignore this garbage and move back to advocating for this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:11:20 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

The quote was "It is currently NOT scheduled for release."

You can use the word "cancelled", or come up with something more palatable if you prefer. "Indefinitely postponed"? Maybe an optimistic "Awaiting a rescheduled release date"? Perhaps "Never existed in completed form in the first place"?

If there is no November release date set, it will not be released - in my opinion. They will have to release the 1970 material as a copyright dump by 12/31. Notice Howie did not mention anything about discs and packaging manufactured. In order for these things to occur, the release date most certainly would have to be set sometime very very soon. This is not sitting in a warehouse waiting to be released on the world. Sounds cancelled to me.
As someone who is pretty young, and knows quite a bit about the record industry, allow me to say that they don’t really need that much time to set a date. They could finish it, and release it a week later. With the way that technology is today, that’s what the majority of artists do. The majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released. It’s the same with these box sets as well. It might not be finished, they might still be making last-minute changes before they put it out to the public. We don’t know. They might not have a date, and come up with one on November 1.
But again, just because there isn’t a date at this moment, doesn’t mean there won’t be a date before the end of the year. They don’t have to set these things up months in advance anymore.

I don't get the "as someone who is pretty young" comment. How is that relevant? Just curious because I'm not really following ...

Pressing thousands of discs and packaging can take a few months. If there's any vinyl involved, it can take a really long time. I've pressed records and tapes myself in recent years.

I think you're gonna need to qualify "the majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released" ha. Not if there is any physical media, they don't. That is technically impossible.
Drake’s fourth studio album Views was finished recording on April 27. It was released to digital services two days later on April 29. All the CDs and vinyls came out two weeks later on May 13.
That’s two days after finished recording for digital release, and two weeks and two days for a physical release. And that was an album that sold millions and millions of copies. This box set will probably sell in the thousands, so it’s not gonna take as long to produce as you think it will.
And by the way, that Drake album was distributed under UMG, the exact same company that distributes these box sets


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 29, 2020, 02:12:20 PM
Well, as someone who owns 2 copies of the Happy Birthday America LP (forgot it's real name) as well as a copy of Maureen Love's solo album, it's a safe bet that I'll buy this set when it's released.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that "not currently scheduled for release" means canceled, although that is slightly worrying.

Thanks to Howie for sharing what you have. Which raises the question of how much investment (time and $$$) goes into something like this. An investment like that would sensibly be made only if there was a reasonable expectation of a return on it. Business is business and whatever the issues might be, if that much investment has gone into this, then it will likely come out, and this year is the likely time frame.

The most interesting point from Howie's informative post was that this set has the potential to change the perception of the abilities/talent/contribution of the respective members of the group. That's not something I expected, and it makes me think there are heaps of songs that most of us don't even know exist.

I think we should do what we can to voice our support for the release of this set, sooner rather that later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
I see the point and agree that none of us as fans are "entitled" to anything and we should have some measure of respect for the band members' wishes. And it is difficult when we can only speculate from the outside based on bits of info.

But based on what we are hearing from those involved and the history of The Beach Boys, I think we should all be able to agree that it will be a damn shame if the hard work that has gone in to this set goes to waste.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 02:16:30 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.


No it doesn't. Go away please.

I think we need to ignore this garbage and move back to advocating for this set.

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
I see the point and agree that none of us as fans are "entitled" to anything and we should have some measure of respect for the band members' wishes. And it is difficult when we can only speculate from the outside based on bits of info.

But based on what we are hearing from those involved and the history of The Beach Boys, I think we should all be able to agree that it will be a damn shame if the hard work that has gone in to this set goes to waste.
Oh, I agree that this set definitely deserves to be released, and needs to be heard. I’m just sick of the entitled fans who are spewing out this garbage about never listening to the band again, and they’re done with them, and they don’t care about their fans, and just going on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 02:27:10 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.



Look, you waste of flesh... you do NOT know sh*t about me and don’t presume to know what I’m thinking. I do not feel like I’m “entitled “ to anything. The way things are going right now, Covid will probably do what two strokes couldn’t do and finish me off before the set comes out anyway. So I do not feel entitled to anything . What you need to do is quit being an asshole and respect the fact that 1)people are going to be upset and mocking them just shows what kind of person you are. I don’t know why I’m even arguing with a troll to begin with.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:34:18 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.



Look, you waste of flesh... you do NOT know sh*t about me and don’t presume to know what I’m thinking. I do not feel like I’m “entitled “ to anything. The way things are going right now, Covid will probably do what two strokes couldn’t do and finish me off before the set comes out anyway. So I do not feel entitled to anything . What you need to do is quit being an asshole and respect the fact that 1)people are going to be upset and mocking them just shows what kind of person you are. I don’t know why I’m even arguing with a troll to begin with.
Damn, you’re about to die from Covid, and the best thing you can do is argue with someone on a message board?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 02:35:26 PM
Wow..I’m so passed off at this troll I forgot my second point. Nice.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on July 29, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
beach boys good


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
If it gets canceled I’m done with the band for good. Never thought I’d say that but the complete lack of regard to the fans is beyond f***ed up.
Please explain? Back in the 60s and 70s, when these albums were released, they never “promised” you or me anything. They have dozens and dozens of songs in the vaults, that they don’t have to release.
Obviously, if it were up to me, I would have them put out a 50 disc box with nothing but new mixes and unreleased material covering their entire career.
But unfortunately, that’s not up to me. But I’m not going to stop being a fan, just because I’m mad they’re not putting the material out that “I” want to hear.
If there are tracks that members don’t want officially released, it might upset me, but I respect them enough to understand their decision. Keep in mind that the made in California box was supposed to have Thank Him, My Solution and Cary Me Home on it, but it didn’t, because certain members of the band thought it would be insensitive and it made them uncomfortable to release them in a official capacity.
and as I said, while I wish that every single track was released, at the end of the day, it is the bandmembers choice to release or not to release, and if it makes them uncomfortable to release, then I completely respect their decision not to.
Now on the other hand, if this is actually just label politics, and searching for the right release date and the right price point, then I wish they’d quit the shenanigans, get there act together and release the damn thing.
But even if it never comes out, I’m still going to be a fan. Nothing will take away the decades of fantastic music they’ve given us, and at the end of the day, that’s what’s important

Have to ask...were you a fan back when the PS box was supposed to come out the first time but didn’t due to politics? This is seeming a lot like that time. It’s different when something doesn’t come out due to it being potentially embarrassing like, say, I’m begging you please. I have no issue with that. Hell, there’s stuff in my band’s back catalogue built up over the past 20 years I wouldn’t want released. That’s not the same as, “ooh we’re going to be releasing this....nope the liner notes aren’t as congratulatory towards one person as it could be...let’s delay it by a year because we can’t get along”.  As Howie mentioned above, it’s already been green lit by the label, which says all we need to know.
You still haven't addressed the initial question. If this doesn't come out, are you quitting the message board? Are you never listening to the band again? Are you throwing away your records? Never buying anything again? What does being "done" with a band even mean?
It means, he thinks that he is “entitle d” to a set.



Look, you waste of flesh... you do NOT know sh*t about me and don’t presume to know what I’m thinking. I do not feel like I’m “entitled “ to anything. The way things are going right now, Covid will probably do what two strokes couldn’t do and finish me off before the set comes out anyway. So I do not feel entitled to anything . What you need to do is quit being an asshole and respect the fact that 1)people are going to be upset and mocking them just shows what kind of person you are. I don’t know why I’m even arguing with a troll to begin with.
Damn, you’re about to die from Covid, and the best thing you can do is argue with someone on a message board?

Wow...just fucking..:wow


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Nearest Faraway Place on July 29, 2020, 02:39:06 PM
Wow..I’m so passed off at this troll I forgot my second point. Nice.


You still haven’t answered the question... You said you’d be “done” with the band if they didn’t release this set. Why? Is it because you feel so entitled to the set that if you don’t get it, you’re just gonna throw all your old LPs away?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
Ignore and/or boot the troll. Let's move on.

The point raised a while back that there is an additional vacuum in the particular area of 1970-ish-themed boxed sets with the Beatles "Let It Be" stuff getting pushed off is a good point.

There's no other band that has this much *unheard* stuff from 1970/71 at this quality level. None.

There are marketing angles as well that could be exploited. "Premiering" sneak peak tracks with various online magazines, Q&As, the possibilities are endless.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 29, 2020, 02:39:46 PM
I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

The quote was "It is currently NOT scheduled for release."

You can use the word "cancelled", or come up with something more palatable if you prefer. "Indefinitely postponed"? Maybe an optimistic "Awaiting a rescheduled release date"? Perhaps "Never existed in completed form in the first place"?

If there is no November release date set, it will not be released - in my opinion. They will have to release the 1970 material as a copyright dump by 12/31. Notice Howie did not mention anything about discs and packaging manufactured. In order for these things to occur, the release date most certainly would have to be set sometime very very soon. This is not sitting in a warehouse waiting to be released on the world. Sounds cancelled to me.
As someone who is pretty young, and knows quite a bit about the record industry, allow me to say that they don’t really need that much time to set a date. They could finish it, and release it a week later. With the way that technology is today, that’s what the majority of artists do. The majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released. It’s the same with these box sets as well. It might not be finished, they might still be making last-minute changes before they put it out to the public. We don’t know. They might not have a date, and come up with one on November 1.
But again, just because there isn’t a date at this moment, doesn’t mean there won’t be a date before the end of the year. They don’t have to set these things up months in advance anymore.

I don't get the "as someone who is pretty young" comment. How is that relevant? Just curious because I'm not really following ...

Pressing thousands of discs and packaging can take a few months. If there's any vinyl involved, it can take a really long time. I've pressed records and tapes myself in recent years.

I think you're gonna need to qualify "the majority of artists nowadays finish their albums days before they’re released" ha. Not if there is any physical media, they don't. That is technically impossible.
Drake’s fourth studio album Views was finished recording on April 27. It was released to digital services two days later on April 29. All the CDs and vinyls came out two weeks later on May 13.
That’s two days after finished recording for digital release, and two weeks and two days for a physical release. And that was an album that sold millions and millions of copies. This box set will probably sell in the thousands, so it’s not gonna take as long to produce as you think it will.
And by the way, that Drake album was distributed under UMG, the exact same company that distributes these box sets

Sorry, but I don't think that is physically possible. And if it is technically possible in some bizarre, extremely unlikely scenario - it is so remote and uncommon to not be applicable to most scenarios, particularly not for a physical box set from The Beach Boys. It takes several weeks minimum to get a test pressing. Once you approve the test pressing, it takes another several weeks at minimum for the physical packages to be pressed. A label is going to be sending out promo copies and investing in promotion for weeks leading up to the release to get a return on their investment.

This is all relevant because - IMO if a release date is not set within the next month or so, this set is not likely to be released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Sorry, but I don't think that is physically possible. And if it is technically possible in some bizarre, extremely unlikely scenario - it is so remote and uncommon to not be applicable to most scenarios, particularly not for a physical box set from The Beach Boys. It take 4-5 weeks to get a test pressing. Once you approve the test pressing, it takes another several weeks at minimum for the physical packages to be pressed. A label is going to be sending out promo copies and investing in promotion for weeks leading up to the release to get a return on their investment.

The Drake comparison was totally off. First of all, a label will absolutely push all other manufacturing jobs in a factory aside to rush release a multi-million seller. Not likely so for a low-key larger boxed set.

The fan bases are also very different in terms of who buys in which format. For better or worse, BB fans buy physical far more often than Drake fans.

Also, an *archival/reissue* type release is very different; part of the whole point is a more lavish physical set.

And, oh yeah...Drake isn't BRI!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
At this point, "The Nearest Faraway Place" has taken it too far. Cease and desist. The discussion is about the box set and fans' opinions, not about cherry-picking replies, starting arguments, directing jabs at people, and trying to stir the sh*t. Time to bow out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 02:46:16 PM
Wow..I’m so passed off at this troll I forgot my second point. Nice.


You still haven’t answered the question... You said you’d be “done” with the band if they didn’t release this set. Why? Is it because you feel so entitled to the set that if you don’t get it, you’re just gonna throw all your old LPs away?
[/quote]


And that, my friends, is the last you’ll ever see the Nearest Faraway Motherfucker, ever post at this board (that Covid comment is what did it actually)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on July 29, 2020, 02:52:28 PM
Wow..I’m so passed off at this troll I forgot my second point. Nice.


You still haven’t answered the question... You said you’d be “done” with the band if they didn’t release this set. Why? Is it because you feel so entitled to the set that if you don’t get it, you’re just gonna throw all your old LPs away?




And that, my friends, is the last you’ll ever see , aka the Nearest Faraway Motherfucker, ever post at this board (that Covid comment is what did it actually)
[/quote]

Moderators are doxing now? [/quote]




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
At this point I'd say any fans who are wondering what's going on with this set, send emails to BRI, Capitol, even the Beach Boys Facebook page and simply ask about it. Ask what is going on with this set which at least two band members have mentioned publicly. If you get hundreds of fans asking about a specific product that has been teased and mentioned for this many months, they can't ignore it.

And this notion of fans being "entitled" to such a set - It's not entitlement, it's the people who support these entities giving enough of a f*** to ask about a product that they're excited to purchase. If BRI wants to ignore those fans, the truly invested and passionate fans, in favor of selling BB logo baseball hats and reissuing greatest hits packages from the past or whatever, that tells many of us exactly what we need to know to make decisions moving forward.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 03:05:12 PM
Wow..I’m so passed off at this troll I forgot my second point. Nice.


You still haven’t answered the question... You said you’d be “done” with the band if they didn’t release this set. Why? Is it because you feel so entitled to the set that if you don’t get it, you’re just gonna throw all your old LPs away?




And that, my friends, is the last you’ll ever see the Nearest Faraway Motherfucker ever post at this board (that Covid comment is what did it actually)

Moderators are doxing now? [/quote]



[/quote]






Anyway he’d left his name in his email address, and yeah I shouldn’t have posted and quite frankly I was pissed off by that Covid quote. I edited it out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dudd on July 29, 2020, 03:16:30 PM
(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/116437243_734780504012525_2441199599702171738_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4QkuOqBHunYAX_sdlc7&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=1c610487f4502c6b16d19a31bf9dafa7&oe=5F46EC19)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on July 29, 2020, 03:24:16 PM
(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/116437243_734780504012525_2441199599702171738_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4QkuOqBHunYAX_sdlc7&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=1c610487f4502c6b16d19a31bf9dafa7&oe=5F46EC19)
What a terrible opinion


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on July 29, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/116437243_734780504012525_2441199599702171738_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4QkuOqBHunYAX_sdlc7&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=1c610487f4502c6b16d19a31bf9dafa7&oe=5F46EC19)
What a terrible opinion
Opinions like that is why BRI won't give us a box set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 03:31:37 PM
Glad to see the dude banned. Bravo!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 03:41:21 PM
(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/116437243_734780504012525_2441199599702171738_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4QkuOqBHunYAX_sdlc7&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=1c610487f4502c6b16d19a31bf9dafa7&oe=5F46EC19)
Satire returns!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SpanoItaliano on July 29, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
The only thing i'm picking up here is that you guys don't want Feel Flows to come out. Which is a shame, because being a fan of The Beach Boys, I do.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 03:51:47 PM
 True confession... I quite like MIU


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 03:52:19 PM
I would remind everyone to remember that this is The Beach Boys we’re talking about.  If and when we ever find out the actual reason for this problem with the release of this set, it probably will make very little sense and will leave us all scratching our heads.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 03:52:45 PM
The only thing i'm picking up here is that you guys don't want Feel Flows to come out. Which is a shame, because being a fan of The Beach Boys, I do.

Who said they didn’t want the boxed set out? I certainly do/did.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 03:53:02 PM
The only thing i'm picking up here is that you guys don't want Feel Flows to come out. Which is a shame, because being a fan of The Beach Boys, I do.

What are you talking about? Everyone who posted here has said they want the set to come out. Are you joking?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 03:53:39 PM
I would remind everyone to remember that this is The Beach Boys we’re talking about.  If and when we ever find out the actual reason for this problem with the release of this set, it probably will make very little sense and will leave us all scratching our heads.

Yup , and that’s what I was trying to explain to that little kid earlier


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
My head hurts...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 29, 2020, 03:56:51 PM
The only thing i'm picking up here is that you guys don't want Feel Flows to come out. Which is a shame, because being a fan of The Beach Boys, I do.

Not a single person has said they don't want the set to come out. Even the troll said he wanted the set.

The whole point of the thread is discussing and showing desire for the set.

And separately, "MIU Album" isn't bad. It's got some good stuff. It isn't the priority now, but later on we should be getting a set focusing on outtakes from that era, too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 03:59:11 PM
My head hurts...

I need a beer.

No, make that a keg.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 04:06:16 PM
I’ll buy the beer but you can only get within 6 feet of it!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
All in all, I feel bad for everyone who was anticipating it, and those who had worked so hard to bring it to the public. Only thing I can say is petition, petition, petition. Swamp the social media of each person (read:Mike) who might be standing in the way and make your voices heard. Only thing I can think of


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 04:07:40 PM
My head hurts...

I need a beer.

No, make that a keg.


Haven’t had a drink in 6 years but for the first time in a very long time, I briefly got tempted. Today’s been ass.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
I’ll buy the beer but you can only get within 6 feet of it!

Sold! I'll go in on a case of Singlecut "Hop Sounds", the Pet Sounds beer lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
All in all, I feel bad for everyone who was anticipating it, and those who had worked so hard to bring it to the public. Only thing I can say is petition, petition, petition. Swamp the social media of each person (read:Mike) who might be standing in the way and make your voices heard. Only thing I can think of

That's what I've been saying too, we have a project which is complete, which has been ready, and someone or something is holding it up for who knows what reasons. Flood the involved parties with emails, messages, etc. Voices of consumers carry much more weight today than people realize. Money talks, and the people holding that money ready to spend get heard.

And consumers also know when they're being rooked.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 29, 2020, 04:15:58 PM
What i really want to know is, which one of our board members payed $2 million for that Wu-Tang Clan cd?
Mr. Shkreli, please stand up  :lol :lol :lol

This is just the Beach Boys being the Beach Boys. In 2027, will they all be bickering over a Beach Boys Love You/M.I.U. box?
'I don't want that thing coming out, Brian sounds like $#it on those songs."
"Are you kidding? His falsetto is amazing on She's Got Rhythm".
"Well, i'm not letting this box come out unless the 30 minute disco mix of HCTN is included".
 :angel:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 04:16:55 PM
Can the emails/addresses/etc that should be contacted please be posted?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on July 29, 2020, 04:43:56 PM
Only thing I can say is petition, petition, petition. Swamp the social media of each person (read:Mike) who might be standing in the way and make your voices heard.

And stress the positive when you post -- you want to convince them there's a market that truly wants this product.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 04:56:13 PM
Roger that


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 04:58:14 PM
Can the emails/addresses/etc that should be contacted please be posted?

Good idea...I’m looking into the information


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 29, 2020, 05:06:15 PM
Do you think trying to message Al on Facebook would be appropriate?  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 05:10:01 PM
Maybe although if history holds true he likely isn’t the one vetoing it. I doubt Brian is too. Best to start with the social media accounts for the one who DOES have a history of this, the label, etc.  Too much hard work went into this to let it die.

And on a related note...thanks to everyone who tried/are trying to make this happen. I know it’s an uphill battle but grateful for all that you do


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
Wonder what Bruce thinks since his boss (Mike) vetoed it...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 05:55:36 PM
I don’t think he really cares as 1) he’s not a voting member  and 2) he’s mentioned many times that this is only a job for him

Man, I promise the few F2S fans there are here ...there will NOT be this level of drama when we release our 20th anniversary boxed set next year 😆


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 18thofMay on July 29, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
Thank you to Howie and Jon for your contributions. This band has the capacity to elicit many, many emotions.
Anger is generally reserved for one core member/recipient, the trumped up talisman from the Baldwin Hills.
I'd suggest the blockage sits in his lap.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 06:03:41 PM
I am guessing that Mike Love had a say in this project getting off the ground in the first place. So if the implication that he is vetoing it is true, what could have changed in the meantime that cannot be resolved? There must be some complications that we are not privy to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 29, 2020, 06:11:46 PM
As I’ve said, this is The Beach Boys. Don’t hold your breath for an explanation that makes sense. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 06:22:38 PM
Thank you to Howie and Jon for your contributions. This band has the capacity to elicit many, many emotions.
Anger is generally reserved for one core member/recipient, the trumped up talisman from the Baldwin Hills.
I'd suggest the blockage sits in his lap.

If he has a blockage in his lap, some cranberry juice might be in order 😏

Seriously though you are 100% on the money


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 06:23:31 PM
As I’ve said, this is The Beach Boys. Don’t hold your breath for an explanation that makes sense. 

Sadly, that is very true


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on July 29, 2020, 06:29:18 PM
Well, if we take the Pet Sounds Sessions as an example, it might seem lame and petty to us that Mike had issues with the liner notes but from his perspective he had to defend his interests as he saw them. They reached a compromise in the end on that. I hope they can again if that is what is needed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on July 29, 2020, 06:43:17 PM
Let’s focus on the positives and see how we can proactively get this thing released in a timely manner. I run the Instagram profile https://instagram.com/thebeachboys66 (https://instagram.com/thebeachboys66), and if someone creates an online petition for this set’s release, I will post a link to it on my feed for the approx. 3,400 followers I have to see!

Let’s get Capitol’s attention and get the ball rolling on this! Thank you Alan, Howie, Mark, and everyone else involved in this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
Great idea!!!

Dumb question...
How do you actually start a petition?

Yes...I know...I’m a music producer, I’ve worked in technical support for 16 years as well, and I’m clueless on this. 😆


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on July 29, 2020, 06:53:57 PM
Man, catching up on this thread. This is heartbreaking.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 29, 2020, 07:01:49 PM
Wonder what Bruce thinks since his boss (Mike) vetoed it...

Pardon for not reading all the posts in this thread, but did Mike actually veto this or is this just speculation based on what has been talked about here?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 07:08:34 PM
Wonder what Bruce thinks since his boss (Mike) vetoed it...

Pardon for not reading all the posts in this thread, but did Mike actually veto this or is this just speculation based on what has been talked about here?

It's speculation, actually, nit it is based on the fact that it's already been greenlit by the label AND completed. Bruce isn't a voting member, so that eliminates him.  Al had shown enthusiasm for it publicly, so that eliminates him. So, that would narrow it down to Brian, Mike, or Carl's estate (whom I doubt would've vetoed).

That leaves two people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 07:26:36 PM
This was such a great time for everyone in the band.  Shame if someone is blocking it.  My gut tells me someone is jealous of DW content.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
This was such a great time for everyone in the band.  Shame if someone is blocking it.  My gut tells me someone is jealous of DW content.

I didn't even think about the Dennis aspect of it...good point


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 29, 2020, 07:37:58 PM
I’d love to know the opinion of all the people who constantly defend Mike for everything. Is it worth not getting the box set?

I would love to know what the complaint was...perhaps ‘Student Demonstration Time’ didn’t get its own CD full of session takes and alternate versions? Or maybe he wanted to slather the “not great” autotune on every song? Actually, I wonder if he wrote the last three words in ‘A Day In The Life Of A Tree’ and is now demanding 1/3rd of the credit for the entire song.

This band is the personification of Yin and Yang: for every good thing that happens there is always an equally negative thing that has to follow it.

I was really hoping some Covid issue was holding his up in the hopes that a certain band member actually put his big-boy pants on and approved the set. But of course there was some stupid problem that completely fucks over the fans. And to those that think this is entitled: this is just how passionate we are about this beautiful music. So yeah, I’m just a meaningless fan whose already bought Sunflower for the third time, but yeah I wanna hear the vocals-only of ‘All I Wanna Do’ because I think it’s one of the most beautiful songs I’ve ever heard and I want to hear more of it.

The band owes me nothing, but they owe one another respect for the incredible body of work they created over the last 60 years.

*and I know the Mike thing is just speculation, but given the history I don’t doubt he’s the issue here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 07:41:47 PM
I’d love to know the opinion of all the people who constantly defend Mike for everything. Is it worth not getting the box set?

I would love to know what the complaint was...perhaps ‘Student Demonstration Time’ didn’t get its own CD full of session takes and alternate versions? Or maybe he wanted to slather the “not great” autotune on every song? Actually, I wonder if he wrote the last three words in ‘A Day In The Life Of A Tree’ and is now demanding 1/3rd of the credit for the entire song.

This band is the personification of Yin and Yang: for every good thing that happens there is always an equally negative thing that has to follow it.

I was really hoping some Covid issue was holding his up in the hopes that a certain band member actually put his big-boy pants on and approved the set. But of course there was some stupid problem that completely fucks over the fans. And to those that think this is entitled: this is just how passionate we are about this beautiful music. So yeah, I’m just a meaningless fan whose already bought Sunflower for the third time, but yeah I wanna hear the vocals-only of ‘All I Wanna Do’ because I think it’s one of the most beautiful songs I’ve ever heard and I want to hear more of it.




Well said, brother.  BTW I love your avatar pic and quote.

The band owes me nothing, but they owe one another respect for the incredible body of work they created over the last 60 years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 29, 2020, 07:45:06 PM
Thanks! 2001 is one of my favorite movies, also liked the possible homages to 2001 that ‘Love and Mercy’ had.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Yep, that was awesome. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
Great idea!!!

Dumb question...
How do you actually start a petition?

Yes...I know...I’m a music producer, I’ve worked in technical support for 16 years as well, and I’m clueless on this. 😆


If a petition is started, in order to get the attention of both the band and the record label, it should be called:

 "PLEASE… TAKE OUR MONEY"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 07:55:39 PM
This was such a great time for everyone in the band.  Shame if someone is blocking it.  My gut tells me someone is jealous of DW content.

My thoughts and fears exactly


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 29, 2020, 07:58:43 PM
Great idea!!!

Dumb question...
How do you actually start a petition?

Yes...I know...I’m a music producer, I’ve worked in technical support for 16 years as well, and I’m clueless on this. 😆


If a petition is started, in order to get the attention of both the band and the record label, it should be called:

 "PLEASE… TAKE OUR MONEY"

Jeez, if there was ever a message Mike would be receptive to its this^

Someone just needs to tell Mike the “approval” is for a lawsuit against Brian, this set will be out in a week.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 29, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Great idea!!!

Dumb question...
How do you actually start a petition?

Yes...I know...I’m a music producer, I’ve worked in technical support for 16 years as well, and I’m clueless on this. 😆


If a petition is started, in order to get the attention of both the band and the record label, it should be called:

 "PLEASE… TAKE OUR MONEY"

Jeez, if there was ever a message Mike would be receptive to its this^

Someone just needs to tell Mike the “approval” is for a lawsuit against Brian, this set will be out in a week.

I would buy 10 sealed copies of "unleash the love" in order to get this FF box to happen.  Totally serious. Or 20 even.

Whatever it takes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 29, 2020, 08:10:42 PM
Oh man don’t even open that door :lol

Mike is going to blackmail us all into buying 10 copies of Unleash The Love each in order to put his approval on this set.

And when Mike ponders this idea the words running through his mind will be “Do it! Do it!” in Mark McGrath’s voice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 08:12:27 PM
"I once had a doggie named Wrinkles..."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on July 29, 2020, 08:18:56 PM
Hi. I've been reading the forum for years, and in case TBTB peruse this thread, thought I'd register and add my voice to show the demand for this box set is there. Maybe I skew younger than most here, IDK, but for what it's worth, here's how my fandom progressed.

I'm in my 30's, and was a casual fan as a kid and teenager in the 90's. That is, I knew and loved all the hits, had them on my computer's MP3 playlist, burned a CD for the car and listened frequently, but could not tell you the name of the band members, the album names, or much of anything post PS. The most exotic tracks on my playlist were Heroes and Villains and Disney Girls, and remember at that time not being sure those two tracks were even legit studio releases. Actually, I think Disney Girls was a cover.

Sometime in 2013, I happened to see the Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums list with PS being #2, and decided to give the whole thing a listen (and it just so happened to be at night, with headphones, as BW later suggested). I couldn't believe how amazing the whole thing was. I was hooked - obsessed. Serendipitously, MiC had just come out. I bought it immediately and then was really floored - overwhelmed - at the amount of great music I'd never heard. 3 out of 5 discs full of fantastic stuff I didn't know existed!

What a perfect time to start discovering them too, as this is about the time when these copyright extension sets started. I've purchased every one as they've come out, and dived deeper and deeper into this band's history. I went back and bought all the twofers, the 2012 Mono/Stereo remasters, MFiT/Apple Digital Masters, Smile Sessions, all the old compilations, most of the Analogue Productions vinyl (and some digital), all the member's solo albums (some in multiple formats), just about every documentary, Peter Ames Carlin's book, the autobiographies, the Love and Mercy film, multiple issues of ESQ, watched the made for TV movies tons of times, frequently read these boards and use the Bellagio 10452 site, took my 5 year old daughter to see Brian Wilson presents Pet Sounds, and when we can, will go see Mike and Bruce's band, and Brian's again.

I'm sure I still would have bought a number of their old albums, mostly through iTunes, but there's no way I would have gone as far as I have were it not for these unbelievable sets we've been blessed with the last few years. It's really gotten me way more into them than I would have been otherwise, and exposed me and I'm sure many others to the embarrassment of riches this band produced, released, and have had sitting in the vaults the many years after the beach and surf and car and girl songs. If Wake the World and I Can Hear Music had been a physical release, I'd have bought it, but was glad to get them nonetheless. And on top of it all, they have people like Mark Linett and Alan Boyd curating this stuff. Other artists should be so lucky. I've seen the myriad of mixed/negative reactions of anniversary sets from other bands in threads over at the Hoffman forums. From what I've heard, Mark and Alan have never disappointed. If anything they've exceeded expectations. They care so much and do such excellent, quality work.

Yes, the audience at the show I went to was older. Probably a lot of lifelong fans. I'll bet many of them would buy Feel Flows. But my daughter, and a lot of other little kids were standing in the aisles, and at the back above the seats, jumping, dancing and swaying, even when they played Darlin', Sail on Sailor, and Feel Flows. At home she, and her little sister, ask me to put the records on all the time. My oldest daughter's favorite is You Still Believe in Me, because she loves the bicycle bell and horn.

I'm a relatively new fan, and you've got another generation or two coming up behind me. And it's due in large part to these archival sets. Despite itself, this band persists. For me, and I'm sure many others, these tracks aren't just curiosities, to be listened to once, say "oh that's interesting" and never listen to them again. They're better than many album cuts most bands of the era were releasing. Let us hear the brilliance of all the work that was done on what have been contemporarily reappraised as a couple of the greatest albums of all time. Reintroduce the public to these gems. Don't hide them away again. The years covering Sunflower/Surf's Up are so important in terms of the leadership and creativity of the rest of the band after BW stepped back. Don't make same mistakes twice. Please release this and let that era shine the way it should have originally back in '70 and '71.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 08:22:39 PM
Welcome to the board!  We need more of you posting.  Thanks for taking the time.  I feel like there are a lot of people out there like you, kinda lurking.  That was myself for many years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 08:24:46 PM
"I once had a doggie named Wrinkles..."

Brother, I'd name a certain part of my anatomy Wrinkles if it got the boxed set out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 08:26:04 PM
Lol, I actually kinda like that song.  But I hear ya.  Goofy as hell, but sweet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on July 29, 2020, 08:32:50 PM
Welcome Cork! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 08:33:41 PM
Hi. I've been reading the forum for years, and in case TBTB peruse this thread, thought I'd register and add my voice to show the demand for this box set is there. Maybe I skew younger than most here, IDK, but for what it's worth, here's how my fandom progressed.

I'm in my 30's, and was a casual fan as a kid and teenager in the 90's. That is, I knew and loved all the hits, had them on my computer's MP3 playlist, burned a CD for the car and listened frequently, but could not tell you the name of the band members, the album names, or much of anything post PS. The most exotic tracks on my playlist were Heroes and Villains and Disney Girls, and remember at that time not being sure those two tracks were even legit studio releases. Actually, I think Disney Girls was a cover.

Sometime in 2013, I happened to see the Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums list with PS being #2, and decided to give the whole thing a listen (and it just so happened to be at night, with headphones, as BW later suggested). I couldn't believe how amazing the whole thing was. I was hooked - obsessed. Serendipitously, MiC had just come out. I bought it immediately and then was really floored - overwhelmed - at the amount of great music I'd never heard. 3 out of 5 discs full of fantastic stuff I didn't know existed!

What a perfect time to start discovering them too, as this is about the time when these copyright extension sets started. I've purchased every one as they've come out, and dived deeper and deeper into this band's history. I went back and bought all the twofers, the 2012 Mono/Stereo remasters, MFiT/Apple Digital Masters, Smile Sessions, all the old compilations, most of the Analogue Productions vinyl (and some digital), all the member's solo albums (some in multiple formats), just about every documentary, Peter Ames Carlin's book, the autobiographies, the Love and Mercy film, multiple issues of ESQ, watched the made for TV movies tons of times, frequently read these boards and use the Bellagio 10452 site, took my 5 year old daughter to see Brian Wilson presents Pet Sounds, and when we can, will go see Mike and Bruce's band, and Brian's again.

I'm sure I still would have bought a number of their old albums, mostly through iTunes, but there's no way I would have gone as far as I have were it not for these unbelievable sets we've been blessed with the last few years. It's really gotten me way more into them than I would have been otherwise, and exposed me and I'm sure many others to the embarrassment of riches this band produced, released, and have had sitting in the vaults the many years after the beach and surf and car and girl songs. If Wake the World and I Can Hear Music had been a physical release, I'd have bought it, but was glad to get them nonetheless. And on top of it all, they have people like Mark Linett and Alan Boyd curating this stuff. Other artists should be so lucky. I've seen the myriad of mixed/negative reactions of anniversary sets from other bands in threads over at the Hoffman forums. From what I've heard, Mark and Alan have never disappointed. If anything they've exceeded expectations. They care so much and do such excellent, quality work.

Yes, the audience at the show I went to was older. Probably a lot of lifelong fans. I'll bet many of them would buy Feel Flows. But my daughter, and a lot of other little kids were standing in the aisles, and at the back above the seats, jumping, dancing and swaying, even when they played Darlin', Sail on Sailor, and Feel Flows. At home she, and her little sister, ask me to put the records on all the time. My oldest daughter's favorite is You Still Believe in Me, because she loves the bicycle bell and horn.

I'm a relatively new fan, and you've got another generation or two coming up behind me. And it's due in large part to these archival sets. Despite itself, this band persists. For me, and I'm sure many others, these tracks aren't just curiosities, to be listened to once, say "oh that's interesting" and never listen to them again. They're better than many album cuts most bands of the era were releasing. Let us hear the brilliance of all the work that was done on what have been contemporarily reappraised as a couple of the greatest albums of all time. Reintroduce the public to these gems. Don't hide them away again. The years covering Sunflower/Surf's Up are so important in terms of the leadership and creativity of the rest of the band after BW stepped back. Don't make same mistakes twice. Please release this and let that era shine the way it should have originally back in '70 and '71.

That was absolutely beautiful....very well said

And welcome to the board!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on July 29, 2020, 08:39:18 PM
I'm devastated. All I can really say.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on July 29, 2020, 08:57:01 PM
This was such a great time for everyone in the band.  Shame if someone is blocking it.  My gut tells me someone is jealous of DW content.
You mean the same someone who was the biggest advocate for Dennis' content on the Made in California set? ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on July 29, 2020, 08:57:47 PM
Eventually it will be released.  Don't worry.  Cooler heads will prevail:)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 29, 2020, 09:35:49 PM
(comment removed)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 29, 2020, 09:40:25 PM
Anyone know when the new ESQ comes out?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 09:58:20 PM
I’m not entirely sure right off the top of my head


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 29, 2020, 10:12:14 PM
We have historical precedent for historic/archival box sets being delayed, if that is indeed what could possibly happen here.

I'm sure I don't need to state the obvious but NOTHING HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED...

That said, in 1996, THE PET SOUNDS SESSIONS was to be released in the fall of that calendar year. How did I know? I read it in Ice Magazine one day in the CD shop I worked at.

In reality – it was delayed over 12 months and finally dropped in November, 1997.

Better late than never.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on July 29, 2020, 10:23:32 PM
[deleted by user]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 29, 2020, 10:32:49 PM
^ Thank you, and welcome to the board!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on July 29, 2020, 10:33:00 PM
I really really don't need to hear this right now. I've expressed concern here a few years ago that the copyright sets will end when we hit the 70s. The Brother 2fers had none of the planned bonus tracks. Made In California was a missed opportunity for 70s outtakes. There was also a set of Brother Rarities planned and scrapped. It just figures. A delay, I can deal with. A cancellation would be tragic because it wouldn't be just this, but future releases now at risk too. The new Endless Summer Quarterly is all about Sunflower and Mike and Bruce have a lot of good things to say. What the hell, man...

I wish this forum had a like button - I would like everything HeyJude and Billy C have posted.  I have been looking forward to this box since the rumors first began. I can only pray something happens and this work isn't lost.  The Beach Boys 70s vault is enormous and I was dying for that levee to break.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 29, 2020, 10:48:55 PM
My head hurts...

Yep - I'm with you M


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on July 29, 2020, 10:56:09 PM
We have historical precedent for historic/archival box sets being delayed, if that is indeed what could possibly happen here.

I'm sure I don't need to state the obvious but NOTHING HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED...

That said, in 1996, THE PET SOUNDS SESSIONS was to be released in the fall of that calendar year. How did I know? I read it in Ice Magazine one day in the CD shop I worked at.

In reality – it was delayed over 12 months and finally dropped in November, 1997.

Better late than never.

Yes, that's right.  The PS box was on release calendar for '96... and then turned up a full year later.  The scuttlebutt at the time was the delay was due to unhappiness with the liner notes and their author David Leaf on the part certain member(s).

When you think about, it was pretty miraculous that the Smile box more or less came out when it was scheduled to in 2011.  For some reason, the stars lined up for that one, very atypical in BB history, post-1966.  Of course, that release itself was only after a half-dozen or so false starts spread out over 44 years.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 29, 2020, 11:04:42 PM
Of course a SMiLE box was first conceived with the intention of being a follow up to said Pet Sounds box set many years earlier.

Christ. SMiLE was promised to Warner for a 1972 release!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on July 29, 2020, 11:20:31 PM
Another lurker coming out of the woodwork here. The uncertainty around the box set is definitely upsetting - hopefully Howie may be able to provide some further detail without having to name names.

I do wonder what Mike could possibly have against this set. There must be something in either the liner notes or studio dialogue that doesn't jive with his current image - remembering that he was a pretty 'out there' individual circa 69-71 (the apple juice fast, hanging out with Craig Smith etc). That's the only justification I can think of - protecting the brand that he currently prefers to put across when it comes to himself and his role in the band as the clean cut leader through adversity.

It also occurs to me that these recordings would clearly demonstrate Carl and Dennis taking the reins once Brian stepped back, with Mike's contributions being somewhat reduced. Again, maybe Mike doesn't like this, considering he's often praised as the one who held things together throughout that period.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 29, 2020, 11:29:29 PM
We have historical precedent for historic/archival box sets being delayed, if that is indeed what could possibly happen here.

I'm sure I don't need to state the obvious but NOTHING HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED...

That said, in 1996, THE PET SOUNDS SESSIONS was to be released in the fall of that calendar year. How did I know? I read it in Ice Magazine one day in the CD shop I worked at.

In reality – it was delayed over 12 months and finally dropped in November, 1997.

Better late than never.

Yes, that's right.  The PS box was on release calendar for '96... and then turned up a full year later.  The scuttlebutt at the time was the delay was due to unhappiness with the liner notes and their author David Leaf on the part certain member(s).

When you think about, it was pretty miraculous that the Smile box more or less came out when it was scheduled to in 2011.  For some reason, the stars lined up for that one, very atypical in BB history, post-1966.  Of course, that release itself was only after a half-dozen or so false starts spread out over 44 years.



It was more than scuttlebutt - Mike Love had issues with the original PS box liner notes, he complained, they pulled the set from the release schedule, and the main result of the whole thing was Mike got to write his own commentary which they included in the revised package. If I'm wrong on any of that, please advise.

Maybe the scuttlebutt you're referring to was a rumor that an advance copy of the booklet was accidentally sent to Mike that wasn't supposed to be sent, he saw it and complained, and that's what kicked off the whole delay issue. Believe it or not, but that was the scuttlebutt. I also remember reading about both a PS Sessions and a Smile Sessions set in the pipeline in what I think was Tower Records' "Pulse" magazine, and I'm sure it was '95 or maybe even '94 because I was living a half-block away from Tower in Boston at the time and remember being ecstatic over that little news blurb when I brought that new issue home.

If you guys missed it, this was the deja vu a few of us were discussing a few pages back. As in, there have been precedents on this happening in the past with archival releases and releases in general, and again believe it or not, most of the hang-ups seemingly came from Mike Love.

And the real miracle, and this coming from people who were involved in the set at the time, was how that 45 minutes of Smile ever got released on the GV box set. Band members had veto power of what tracks to include, apparently Brian exercised his veto on "Let Him Run Wild" which is why that is a glaring omission from the GV box (Brian didn't like his vocal), and from what was told later a lot of convincing had to be done on several fronts to include as much of Smile as they did. And it turned out to be one of the best decisions they could have made, especially at that time and on that set. But I don't think any issues among band members delayed or even scuttled that release at any point. Again, I could be wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 29, 2020, 11:38:17 PM
I'm slow with reading threads on message boards... lifelong failing.

I do remember exactly the scenario you mentioned about Mike having an issue about the liner notes and the release being halted so it could be revised with his "elucidation" to use a Myke type word.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on July 29, 2020, 11:54:10 PM

It was more than scuttlebutt - Mike Love had issues with the original PS box liner notes, he complained, they pulled the set from the release schedule, and the main result of the whole thing was Mike got to write his own commentary which they included in the revised package. If I'm wrong on any of that, please advise.

Maybe the scuttlebutt you're referring to was a rumor that an advance copy of the booklet was accidentally sent to Mike that wasn't supposed to be sent, he saw it and complained, and that's what kicked off the whole delay issue. Believe it or not, but that was the scuttlebutt. I also remember reading about both a PS Sessions and a Smile Sessions set in the pipeline in what I think was Tower Records' "Pulse" magazine, and I'm sure it was '95 or maybe even '94 because I was living a half-block away from Tower in Boston at the time and remember being ecstatic over that little news blurb when I brought that new issue home.


Yes, in early 1995, Billboard ran story a 3-CD set called "The Smile Era" (2 discs of Smile material and 1 disc of Good Vibrations sessions).  Leaf, Linett and some Capitol staff were quoted.

See Billboard, Feb. 4, 1995, p. 10
https://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&f=false

p. 127
https://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA127&dq=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&pg=PA127#v=onepage&q=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&f=false



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 30, 2020, 12:14:39 AM
Wasn’t there also supposed to be a Good Vibrations sessions collection at one point as well?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kwebb on July 30, 2020, 12:24:28 AM
Another lurker pitching in here. I've been a fan since 2013 when a friend bought the 50 Big Ones album. The 70's are my favorite period of Beach Boys music, and Sunflower is one of my favorite albums of all time - I listen to it more than Pet Sounds if I'm being honest. When I first heard about the copyright releases in 2015 I realized that eventually unreleased and alternate material from the 1970's would probably come out. I've been looking forward to an archival release from Sunflower since then. I bought Sunshine Tomorrow and the 1968 session albums released a couple of years ago, and every year I look forward to the unearthing of unreleased material. This box set would make my year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: My Smile Solution on July 30, 2020, 02:12:13 AM
 :bw I'm also looking very much forward to this and have signed the petition :bw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on July 30, 2020, 02:17:42 AM
The part that most interests me is hearing more unreleased Dennis material. It's criminal just how little we really have from what was arguably his creative peak in the early 70's. I really believe he could've been huge if he'd had the drive and discipline to write (and finish) more songs in the soul-rock style of Slip on Through, Going Your Way etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 30, 2020, 02:36:09 AM
Signed the petition, thanks for sharing that, Mr Wilson Joliet!

Also, welcome to all the new posters here! You all should join the discussions, share your opinions, tell us your favorite albums.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on July 30, 2020, 03:53:45 AM
HeyJude said earlier that liner notes and other content are NOT the hang-up with Feel Flows.  So we should drop that from our arguments concerning why there’s a delay. Please correct me if I’m wrong here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 30, 2020, 06:27:13 AM
Quote
Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

So this leads us to WHO is blocking this set from being released:

Al? Al is the one who spilled the beans on this project in the first place, and he said it was coming out a long time ago. So even with the logic of a grade-school child one can easily deduce that he isn’t the hold up.
Bruce? Again, Bruce talked about this thing publicly and said it was being released in Feb 2020 (at one point). Logically he (along with Al) were excited about the release of it. (Though I can’t remember if Bruce has a vote, so this point may not matter).
Carl’s estate? They want to make money, no way did they veto this.
Brian? Again, he/Melinda want to make money. Unless there was something in the liner notes that was bending the truth, I can’t see in a million years Brian holding this up. And if there was a wording issue or a content issue I can’t imagine that the makers of the set wouldn’t try to rectify such a problem immediately.
Mike? Just look at his history of blocking sets. The guy is the only one from this group petulant enough to block fans from hearing great music just to satisfy his ego. Look at his history of lawsuits, interviews, acts towards other people he dislikes. It really wouldn’t surprise any of us if he were the reason this isn’t coming out.

And just to clarify my reason for previously thinking COVID was a possible hangup for this set: at the time I and others speculated that since there was still no official word as to whether this thing even had a release date, that the label was just waiting for a right time to announce/release this thing. Covid has messed so many things up in any industry - I mean when one person tests positive many businesses have to shut down for 2 weeks. There are just so many gray areas when it comes to life in the Covid world, hence I think it was a logical deduction to think that a global pandemic that had/has the possibility of killing millions of people worldwide could have caused a delay.

Now that we know there is no delay because there’s not anything to delay, it does make sense that this is a political issue. A completely finished product is just sitting on a shelf with possibly no future. And I’m not even surprised. Angry? Yeah. Disappointed? Absolutely. Surprised? Nah, the one thing this band is consistent at is fucking up any and almost every opportunity that comes their way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on July 30, 2020, 07:26:50 AM


What if the boxset is delayed because they were planning to announce it together with the announcement of a world tour of the reunited Beach Boys but now the tour is on-hold due to COVID-19?
Am I being too hopeful?  ;)





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on July 30, 2020, 07:40:10 AM



What if the boxset is delayed because they were planning to announce it together with the announcement of a world tour of the reunited Beach Boys but now the tour is on-hold due to COVID-19?
Am being I too hopeful?  ;)

Yes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on July 30, 2020, 07:46:40 AM


So we have the following

Yes, in early 1995, Billboard ran story a 3-CD set called "The Smile Era" (2 discs of Smile material and 1 disc of Good Vibrations sessions).  Leaf, Linett and some Capitol staff were quoted.

See Billboard, Feb. 4, 1995, p. 10
https://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&f=false

p. 127
https://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA127&dq=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&pg=PA127#v=onepage&q=beach%20boys%20%22Smile%20era%22%20Billboard&f=false



So we have the following announced and unfulfilled dates for a Smile release:

Jan 1967
May 1967
Jan 1973
late 1988
August 1995

If it wasn't for BWPS we would never have gotten the Smile Sessions box!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on July 30, 2020, 07:56:18 AM
Am I naive if I'm thinking the songs on the box set doesn't have enough of involvement from a certain Mr. Love?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 08:07:27 AM
Just a bit of advice that may help fans focus on things worth focusing on with this set:

It's perhaps worth looking less at *why* the box is being delayed and more at the fact that it *is* being delayed, delayed to the point where it's not on the release schedule and it's distressingly unclear whether it'll come out at all.

I don't really know how much more detail can be offered on the specifics of why the hold-up is happening. I used the "Pet Sounds Sessions" example awhile back as an example of how something *unrelated* to the contents of a set might cause someone to hold a set up. This was an imperfect example of course, because issues with liner notes is sort of "content", but I also specifically mentioned that nothing like that liner notes situation was the case with "Feel Flows."

I don't think it's out of line to suggest that the content of this set is not what's causing a party or parties to hold this up. The band knew/knows the set was being compiled, and work on the set was finished. Remember, this sets involves handling tapes owned by BRI. People can't touch the tapes let alone compile a boxed set from those tapes unless BRI allows that work to take place. Further, there is plenty of precedent for the compilers on these sets removing tracks if they're vetoed by any band member. These sets don't live or die on one particular track.

I also used a (seemingly) goofier example in a previous post where we envision a band where a member or two consults a mystical numerologist who tells them no release date right now is advisable. Again, nothing like *that* specifically is going on with "Feel Flows", but the purpose of that example is to envision a case where a set is being held up for reasons unrelated to the content of the boxed set. As I've said numerous times now, this is both extra frustrating but also more reason for us to lobby for this set to be put on the schedule, because in this scenario nobody has an issue with the content (whether we're talking the actual music, or the liners, or the cover art, packaging, etc.).

So, again, it might be worthwhile to look not at *why* the set hasn't been calendared, and more at the simple fact that it hasn't been and may not, and they we've got to convince the band to do a great thing *for the band* and also for the fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 30, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Just a bit of advice that may help fans focus on things worth focusing on with this set:

It's perhaps worth looking less at *why* the box is being delayed and more at the fact that it *is* being delayed, delayed to the point where it's not on the release schedule and it's distressingly unclear whether it'll come out at all.

I don't really know how much more detail can be offered on the specifics of why the hold-up is happening. I used the "Pet Sounds Sessions" example awhile back as an example of how something *unrelated* to the contents of a set might cause someone to hold a set up. This was an imperfect example of course, because issues with liner notes is sort of "content", but I also specifically mentioned that nothing like that liner notes situation was the case with "Feel Flows."

I don't think it's out of line to suggest that the content of this set is not what's causing a party or parties to hold this up. The band knew/knows the set was being compiled, and work on the set was finished. Remember, this sets involves handling tapes owned by BRI. People can't touch the tapes let alone compile a boxed set from those tapes unless BRI allows that work to take place. Further, there is plenty of precedent for the compilers on these sets removing tracks if they're vetoed by any band member. These sets don't live or die on one particular track.

I also used a (seemingly) goofier example in a previous post where we envision a band where a member or two consults a mystical numerologist who tells them no release date right now is advisable. Again, nothing like *that* specifically is going on with "Feel Flows", but the purpose of that example is to envision a case where a set is being held up for reasons unrelated to the content of the boxed set. As I've said numerous times now, this is both extra frustrating but also more reason for us to lobby for this set to be put on the schedule, because in this scenario nobody has an issue with the content (whether we're talking the actual music, or the liners, or the cover art, packaging, etc.).

So, again, it might be worthwhile to look not at *why* the set hasn't been calendared, and more at the simple fact that it hasn't been and may not, and they we've got to convince the band to do a great thing *for the band* and also for the fans.

Respectfully saying this in reply, but that's like being invited to a wedding where the seats are filled with family and friends, the groom is standing with the preacher and wedding party waiting for the bride to walk down the aisle, the wedding march is playing on the organ, and the bride never shows up. The first thing everyone is going to ask is "What happened?".

So fans should envision a scenario where it's been suggested it's not the label, it's not the actual content, yet the resistance is coming from within the band who had all signed off on the project, given interviews, and in a few cases teased the set publicly. Yet content isn't the issue.

So fans are left - according to the above scenarios - assuming someone in the band just decided to block the whole thing for the time being, for some reason other than what's actually on the completed box set? And we're supposed to convince the bride...I mean, the one(s) holding this back...to walk down the aisle without knowing why it didn't happen?

In order to convince someone to rethink a decision, it has to be known why they made the decision in the first place.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on July 30, 2020, 09:49:08 AM
I've commented on Mike Love's last Facebook post two days in a row now.

My last one:

Hey Mike, still want to hear that Feel Flows box set! In fact, "All I Wanna Do" is "Add Some Music To My Day!"

Here's his Facebook for anyone else who wants to chime in:

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMikeLove


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 30, 2020, 10:04:11 AM
Just a bit of advice that may help fans focus on things worth focusing on with this set:

It's perhaps worth looking less at *why* the box is being delayed and more at the fact that it *is* being delayed, delayed to the point where it's not on the release schedule and it's distressingly unclear whether it'll come out at all.

I don't really know how much more detail can be offered on the specifics of why the hold-up is happening. I used the "Pet Sounds Sessions" example awhile back as an example of how something *unrelated* to the contents of a set might cause someone to hold a set up. This was an imperfect example of course, because issues with liner notes is sort of "content", but I also specifically mentioned that nothing like that liner notes situation was the case with "Feel Flows."

I don't think it's out of line to suggest that the content of this set is not what's causing a party or parties to hold this up. The band knew/knows the set was being compiled, and work on the set was finished. Remember, this sets involves handling tapes owned by BRI. People can't touch the tapes let alone compile a boxed set from those tapes unless BRI allows that work to take place. Further, there is plenty of precedent for the compilers on these sets removing tracks if they're vetoed by any band member. These sets don't live or die on one particular track.

I also used a (seemingly) goofier example in a previous post where we envision a band where a member or two consults a mystical numerologist who tells them no release date right now is advisable. Again, nothing like *that* specifically is going on with "Feel Flows", but the purpose of that example is to envision a case where a set is being held up for reasons unrelated to the content of the boxed set. As I've said numerous times now, this is both extra frustrating but also more reason for us to lobby for this set to be put on the schedule, because in this scenario nobody has an issue with the content (whether we're talking the actual music, or the liners, or the cover art, packaging, etc.).

So, again, it might be worthwhile to look not at *why* the set hasn't been calendared, and more at the simple fact that it hasn't been and may not, and they we've got to convince the band to do a great thing *for the band* and also for the fans.

Respectfully saying this in reply, but that's like being invited to a wedding where the seats are filled with family and friends, the groom is standing with the preacher and wedding party waiting for the bride to walk down the aisle, the wedding march is playing on the organ, and the bride never shows up. The first thing everyone is going to ask is "What happened?".

So fans should envision a scenario where it's been suggested it's not the label, it's not the actual content, yet the resistance is coming from within the band who had all signed off on the project, given interviews, and in a few cases teased the set publicly. Yet content isn't the issue.

So fans are left - according to the above scenarios - assuming someone in the band just decided to block the whole thing for the time being, for some reason other than what's actually on the completed box set? And we're supposed to convince the bride...I mean, the one(s) holding this back...to walk down the aisle without knowing why it didn't happen?

In order to convince someone to rethink a decision, it has to be known why they made the decision in the first place.

Exactly. This is a messageboard and people are going to speculate the “why”. Of course it’s good to be looking for a solution (and people are already writing on social media, a petition is gaining traction, and if there are any other ideas they are completely welcome) but that doesn’t mean that a messageboard dedicated to this band should stifle any conversation about why” this isn’t happening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 10:07:24 AM
"Boxed set is complete, ready to go, it's amazing, mixed, mastered, everything ready to release, but it's not on the release schedule" does sound quite a bit like the wedding's ready to go and the bride or groom just won't show up, doesn't it?

Let's go back to the imaginary scenario with the mystical numerologist. If that was the scenario, would you try to convince them about why the set is important and good for everybody and needs to be released, or would you try to convince them that they should rethink everything they believe about numerology? The latter would be very, very hard to do. The former would be much more productive.

Again, "Feel Flows" has nothing to do with numerology or anything like that. But I think the only thing that's viable right now is to essentially re-sell the band on their own boxed set.

For the purposes of what we're trying to do, given that the set is ready to go (meaning we don't have to lobby them to *make* the set still), given the circumstances of this particular situation and what we do know, the "why" as to the hold up doesn't really matter. Our message to the band members and any other pertinent parties is "this set is needed, we want it, it needs to come out, it's ready to go and we have our wallets open, easy peasy, let's do this!"



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 10:13:28 AM
Exactly. This is a messageboard and people are going to speculate the “why”. Of course it’s good to be looking for a solution (and people are already writing on social media, a petition is gaining traction, and if there are any other ideas they are completely welcome) but that doesn’t mean that a messageboard dedicated to this band should stifle any conversation about why” this isn’t happening.

Nobody's trying to stifle anything. Speculate away. Nothing wrong with that.

What some people in the know are trying to say is, the "why" doesn't matter logistically much right now for the purposes of lobbying for the set to be released, given what those in the know have explained. Nobody would be trying to push this thing past the goal post if it wasn't at least potentially salvageable.

I don't anticipate that anybody anytime soon, if ever, is going to find out the nitty gritty of why this set has thus far been back-burnered. It may never be fully known or explained publicly, and frankly I'm fine with that as long as minds can be changed/shifted just very slightly on this one tiny issue so we can see this set released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 30, 2020, 10:29:00 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on July 30, 2020, 10:41:55 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.
Am I incorrect, or doesn't Carl's estate usually side with Mike?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 30, 2020, 10:51:49 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.
Am I incorrect, or doesn't Carl's estate usually side with Mike?

You are correct based on what I've heard. However, I don't know if in the case of an archival Beach Boys release involving a label it comes down to a majority vote, or if each party has a single-vote veto kind of situation as far as the label is concerned where one "no" vote is enough to block something even after the full BRI membership signed on to support it. I'm going back to the PS Sessions example where by almost all accounts it was solely Mike's objection to the liner notes that blocked the original release plans for that set. I'm trying to make sense of it, but in that case (and seemingly the case with the Feel Flows box project) you had all members originally sign on and participate in the project up to setting a release date, but prior to the actual release an objection was raised and it was pulled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on July 30, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
Thanks for the welcome and kind words. In regards to the archival releases not just being one offs - all the physical media I've purchased I digitized and made a gigantic chronological playlist. There's also a separate chronological "favorites" playlist that I'm always adding to, which goes to my phone so I can play it anywhere. It's 277 tracks and I went and checked the distribution and found that 109 tracks are things that were at one point, previously unreleased, and of those, 43 come directly from Sunshine Tomorrow (1 & 2), Wake the World and I Can Hear Music, so these sets are definitely getting a lot of love and a lot of play. I can't begin to imagine how it'll blow up if and when Feel Flows comes out. A number of these copyright extension tracks have play counts in the hundreds. Some of that is because I'm listening through my headphones and end up falling asleep with it playing after the kids go to bed. Others...I'm not quite at the point where I'm in bed all day with Be My Baby on repeat, but with how much I love this stuff, and with the lockdown continuing...I'm not far off!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 30, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
I've commented on Mike Love's last Facebook post two days in a row now.

My last one:

Hey Mike, still want to hear that Feel Flows box set! In fact, "All I Wanna Do" is "Add Some Music To My Day!"

Here's his Facebook for anyone else who wants to chime in:

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMikeLove


I copied and pasted the same message 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on July 30, 2020, 11:48:20 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.
Am I incorrect, or doesn't Carl's estate usually side with Mike?

They've sided with Mike on issues relating to his Beach Boys touring franchise... and I can't necessarily blame them.  You don't bite the hand that feeds you, and let's face it, Mike has been a touring machine for decades and his operation has been very lucrative for himself... and BRI's other shareholders.

On catalog/music issues, it's less clear.  I know that there was the story about them breaking ranks with Mike over the use of BB music in the Love & Mercy film.  The Pet Sounds Sessions' strife predates the involvement of Justyn/Jonah, as Carl was still alive in '96-'97.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 30, 2020, 12:05:54 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but since the issue of the Love & Mercy music was raised...There was a situation where BRI and all members could make money on mechanical rights, royalties, etc from both the film and soundtrack and subsequent releases on DVD and digital...without lifting a finger, without doing any work, without playing under a tent in Cape Cod in the dead of summer and with 100% humidity...and Mike still objected.

So using the example of Carl's interests siding with Mike's touring issues on the table of BRI, the Love & Mercy soundtrack deal was a case where a "yes" vote from that entity was a recurring payday without doing anything, including for Mike who had ownership interests in some of those songs which would pay out in perpetuity, and yet Mike objected. So the yes vote from the Wilsons was a similar no-brainer unless Mike was able to convince them somehow to vote no based on Mike's personal hang-ups or whatever justification he was using, and obviously they didn't go with Mike for what seems to be a rare 3 to 1 vote.

As I explained earlier the PS Sessions box was indeed when Carl was still alive, but from all accounts it was Mike's and Mike's alone objections to the liner notes that caused it to be pulled and revised, which delayed the original release plans. So that seems to be a case of BRI originally giving it a yes vote, the project going through and being ready for release, and someone (Mike in this case) either complaining, petitioning, or taking/threatening legal action against the label and other related interests after earlier agreeing to the project through the band's corporate vote. That again is the sense of deja vu some of us had when all of this happened with the Feel Flows set. That's why some of us are wondering what the hell happened.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I'd say, until or if more information can be dispensed on this one, yeah, I think we need to tell all the band members we want this set, and that it's good for the band and fans.

It isn't going to hurt to tell someone who isn't blocking its release that we want the set. Obviously, it's not advisable to accuse any of them of blocking anything when you don't know if that's the case or not. But really, if we actually knew it was a specific person (or persons) standing in the way, would it be beneficial to send accusatory notes to that person or persons? Or is it better to explain why this set should be out, and why its beneficial to the band and fans.

We'll have the rest of our lives for the postmortem on this (hopefully a postmortem where the set did come out). Right now the only thing that seems to have a chance to save the set is to sell (or re-sell) the entire band on this, that both direct and indirect influence/pressure will change things.

Really, if someone is getting messages saying "release this set", and that person isn't holding it up, maybe it will also help them re-broach the topic with the parties that could be blocking it.

It's easy to let all parties know we want this. This discussion we're having right now, here and on Facebook and elsewhere, where we're all saying how much we want this set, and we're discussing it with a passion, *that's* a big part of letting them all know.

Despite not having a ton of BB-related things to compare this to and thus trying to use the PS Sessions set as an example, the "Feel Flows" situation is really not similar to the PS Sessions situation. What's happening now I think is both more complicated in terms of some machinations, but also simpler in execution in that nobody seems to have a problem with the *content* of the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 01:31:24 PM
Also, looking at something like the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack, the voting situation of which was discussed by Mike openly in an interview, perhaps fans can use some educated guesswork considering how other projects would happen or not happen.

The L&M soundtrack came out in what, by all indications including interviews, was a 3-to-1 vote (or a "3 yesses and thus the fourth vote doesn't matter" vote, however one wants to portray it).

*If* a similar situation played out with a later release that requires that final sign-off, one might guess that a 3-to-1 vote *might* once again be sufficient to make it happen.

Currently, "Feel Flows" is not scheduled for release.

My suggestion is letting all the band members and interested parties know how much we want this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 30, 2020, 01:37:49 PM
Maybe Mike objected to the box being named after a Carl song. Would it appease him if they titled it Don't Go Near the Water?
If the physical box does not come out, will they release the material as a copyright dump?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 30, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
It's starting to sound like the issue could be doubts around the size of the market for the set.

The issue could be the difference in returns on a 5CD box set with beautiful packaging and 'premium' inclusions (retail cost of over $100 most likely on probably a fairly slim margin these days) - I don't know this for sure, just guessing - vs. the returns on a digital only release where the overheads are greatly reduced, and the cost to consumer is less, but the margin higher.

Like I said in an earlier post, business is business, and at the end of the day the profits have to justify the inputs. So it's one thing to prepare all this stuff, proofs of labels, booklets etc. It's another thing to hit the button on CD pressing, booklet and box printing - that's a significant outflow of $$.

Maybe reassuring the people in control as to that issue will get this "over the line".

I've signed the petition FWIW.

Fortunately we have the recent precedents of similar box sets, TSS & MIC. Both of which I believe would've produced more than satisfactory returns. It may be just a matter of belief in the interest in the band in this particular era - after all SMiLE is absolutely unique in its legendary status - we can't really say that for Sunflower /Surf's Up. I believe that there is a strong core of very devoted fans who would definitely buy this, and with the right word of mouth/social media/ etc promotion there is also a much wider audience for this sort of box as well. It has the potential to perhaps raise the status of the band overall, and bring in a flow on effect by the generation of further interest in the band. It's sounding like this box is that special.

Now this is all very much just speculation form an outsider looking in, but that's the way I read what's going on. And although I am guilty of thinking/saying 'it must be Mike again' - that is just lazy - whereas more considered analysis leads to probably more accurate conclusions.

What we really need to assess the marketability of this set (and the potential flow on mentioned above) is a better understanding of how the recent releases, digital and physical have been going. We'll probably never have access to specifics, but a general idea would help.





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 01:47:28 PM
Maybe Mike objected to the box being named after a Carl song. Would it appease him if they titled it Don't Go Near the Water?
If the physical box does not come out, will they release the material as a copyright dump?

They've been publicly calling this "Feel Flows" for awhile. I don't think the title is an issue. Also, I can only guess those putting together the set, especially at this stage, would gladly re-title the boxed set if that was the hang-up.

As for the second question, my guess is that if the box continues to be assumed to be "delayed", an end of year copyright dump would not include anywhere near the whole contents of the box, but rather only the song titles that have never been released and need to be protected. Which, as I've said, would undercut things more than help, and might ultimately contribute to momentum leading us towards the boxed set being dropped.

All sorts of scenarios are technically possible. But now I don't think is the time to just assume that, maybe, if we're lucky, we'll get a small digital dump at the end of 2020 and then another digital dump *a year and half from now* at the end of 2021. Now's the time to give the momentum to getting the box out ASAP; this year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 01:53:02 PM
It's starting to sound like the issue could be doubts around the size of the market for the set.

The issue could be the difference in returns on a 5CD box set with beautiful packaging and 'premium' inclusions (retail cost of over $100 most likely on probably a fairly slim margin these days) - I don't know this for sure, just guessing - vs. the returns on a digital only release where the overheads are greatly reduced, and the cost to consumer is less, but the margin higher.

Like I said in an earlier post, business is business, and at the end of the day the profits have to justify the inputs. So it's one thing to prepare all this stuff, proofs of labels, booklets etc. It's another thing to hit the button on CD pressing, booklet and box printing - that's a significant outflow of $$.

Maybe reassuring the people in control as to that issue will get this "over the line".

I've signed the petition FWIW.

Fortunately we have the recent precedents of similar box sets, TSS & MIC. Both of which I believe would've produced more than satisfactory returns. It may be just a matter of belief in the interest in the band in this particular era - after all SMiLE is absolutely unique in its legendary status - we can't really say that for Sunflower /Surf's Up. I believe that there is a strong core of very devoted fans who would definitely buy this, and with the right word of mouth/social media/ etc promotion there is also a much wider audience for this sort of box as well. It has the potential to perhaps raise the status of the band overall, and bring in a flow on effect by the generation of further interest in the band. It's sounding like this box is that special.

Now this is all very much just speculation form an outsider looking in, but that's the way I read what's going on. And although I am guilty of thinking/saying 'it must be Mike again' - that is just lazy - whereas more considered analysis leads to probably more accurate conclusions.

What we really need to assess the marketability of this set (and the potential flow on mentioned above) is a better understanding of how the recent releases, digital and physical have been going. We'll probably never have access to specifics, but a general idea would help.



Having now put out numerous boxed sets, and similar (though less lavish) physical sets like "Sunshine Tomorrow", I believe both the team working on this and the band are pretty familiarized with the potential market/sales for this set. Also, the BB base is still FAR behind the majority of the music market as far as still buying physical rather than digital (and certainly rather than streaming).

Part of what this set is about is *not* going the cheap route. Part of this is about giving those albums and that era, and ALL THE MEMBERS, their due.

This boxed set is Mike's/Al's/Bruce's/Carl's/Dennis's "Smile" boxed set. And it could be the first of many.

What they need to understand is that *their* legacy and reputation is enhanced exponentially with this release.

Trust me, the people working on this set work on good terms with *all* the band members. They know they need to make this a win for all members, and they're also students of the band's history and realize such a set SHOULD properly sell the world on the genius of *all* the band members.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on July 30, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
I know this sounds loony, but what if Mike is holding this thing up because he wants to put "Big Sur" on his next solo album? Perhaps he doesn't want this out there at the moment so people could compare and contrast, as it's likely that the 1970 (right?) version would probably be of much higher quality.

Also, I do agree with hitting up Mike's Facebook nicely asking him if we could hear the set soon. I also suggest speaking Mike's language. That means that we should be peppering our posts with "fun, fun, fun" and "good vibrations" and whatnot. Obviously, I'm kidding, but I don't think it hurts. Lastly I think the worst thing is for people to attack him. I'm not sure what we are doing will make a difference either way, but I think being decent is always the better way.

Lastly, if we don't get the set believe it or not I understand. It is their music, and if the band themselves don't agree to release it, then we don't get to have it. As much as that stinks, I understand it. It's their art. Hopefully it all comes together though, because the few things we've heard about the set seem tantalizing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 30, 2020, 02:01:41 PM

Having now put out numerous boxed sets, and similar (though less lavish) physical sets like "Sunshine Tomorrow", I believe both the team working on this and the band are pretty familiarized with the potential market/sales for this set. Also, the BB base is still FAR behind the majority of the music market as far as still buying physical rather than digital (and certainly rather than streaming).

Part of what this set is about is *not* going the cheap route. Part of this is about giving those albums and that era, and ALL THE MEMBERS, their due.

This boxed set is Mike's/Al's/Bruce's/Carl's/Dennis's "Smile" boxed set. And it could be the first of many.

What they need to understand is that *their* legacy and reputation is enhanced exponentially with this release.

Trust me, the people working on this set work on good terms with *all* the band members. They know they need to make this a win for all members, and they're also students of the band's history and realize such a set SHOULD properly sell the world on the genius of *all* the band members.

I think we're in agreement - I was in no way suggesting a digital release was preferable in any way.

As very much an outsider, but someone who has been following this band for decades, it's hard to know what can *realistically* be done to help this along.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 30, 2020, 02:01:53 PM
Signed the petition and shared it on Mike Love’s FB Page,

Here’s the link if anyone missed it a few pages ago (thanks again to Mr Wilson Joliet for sharing this)

http://chng.it/cQ68yLYssf


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 02:04:02 PM
I know this sounds loony, but what if Mike is holding this thing up because he wants to put "Big Sur" on his next solo album? Perhaps he doesn't want this out there at the moment so people could compare and contrast, as it's likely that the 1970 (right?) version would probably be of much higher quality.

Also, I do agree with hitting up Mike's Facebook nicely asking him if we could hear the set soon. I also suggest speaking Mike's language. That means that we should be peppering our posts with "fun, fun, fun" and "good vibrations" and whatnot. Obviously, I'm kidding, but I don't think it hurts. Lastly I think the worst thing is for people to attack him. I'm not sure what we are doing will make a difference either way, but I think being decent is always the better way.

Lastly, if we don't get the set believe it or not I understand. It is their music, and if the band themselves don't agree to release it, then we don't get to have it. As much as that stinks, I understand it. It's their art. Hopefully it all comes together though, because the few things we've heard about the set seem tantalizing.

As mentioned before, these sets don't live or die on one track. Tracks have been vetoed on past releases. If a band member doesn't want a specific track on it, it's removed and work continues. Maybe some lobbying/discussion back and forth takes place, but ultimately track vetoes are honored.

I mean, I guess if someone had said "no Heroes and Villains on the Smile box!", then maybe that would have needed to be negotiated as a rare case of a potential deal breaker.

But again, as far as I've heard, the audio (or other) content of "Feel Flows" is not at issue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 30, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
I think being decent is always the better way.

 :lol




Sorry couldn't resist - I actually support what you're saying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 30, 2020, 02:21:59 PM

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on July 30, 2020, 02:45:38 PM
I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 30, 2020, 02:49:55 PM
I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on July 30, 2020, 04:00:39 PM
I don’t really get why labels still do physical releases, it’s bad business. Imagine the work spent on a project like this. Ad the unnecessary things as booklets that needs to be designed, artwork that needs to be designed, manufacturing etc. It’s such a niche market these days even for a band like this
Just slap a white picture with the band name and the title of the release on it as a cover and out to the digital world with it.

I mean, look at the biggest smile set that costs 131 dollars on amazon, how many of those can they really sell?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice that they do, but it really can’t be that great business wise?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on July 30, 2020, 04:39:44 PM
Signed the petition and shared it on Mike Love’s FB Page ...

If fans are going to share the petition to Mike's FB, it needs to be shared to Brian's and Al's FB pages as well, to keep a consistent positive tone about how very much the fans want this release. The idea is to convince everyone that there's a viable market and a strong demand for this box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on July 30, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
It's starting to sound like the issue could be doubts around the size of the market for the set.


Surely it still makes more sense to release it and potentially make a profit. They've already sunk a decent amount of money into the set by the sound of it (payrolling at least two professional audio guys for ~2 years, mastering costs). Granted, I'm not sure how the cost of actually pressing stock would compare to this for a huge label like Capitol - but I imagine they keep the expense as self contained as possible considering they own all the necessary facilities. Again, I don't know that much about it - I just get the feeling that they're at a point where it would make more sense financially just to release it in some form and have a chance of making some money back on what they've invested in it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 30, 2020, 04:48:47 PM
Signed the petition and shared it on Mike Love’s FB Page ...

If fans are going to share the petition to Mike's FB, it needs to be shared to Brian's and Al's FB pages as well, to keep a consistent positive tone about how very much the fans want this release. The idea is to convince everyone that there's a viable market and a strong demand for this box set.


Completely agree


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on July 30, 2020, 05:16:41 PM

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 18thofMay on July 30, 2020, 06:05:33 PM

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?
Don't worry about that comment Howie, thank you for your contributions here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 30, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but since the issue of the Love & Mercy music was raised...There was a situation where BRI and all members could make money on mechanical rights, royalties, etc from both the film and soundtrack and subsequent releases on DVD and digital...without lifting a finger, without doing any work, without playing under a tent in Cape Cod in the dead of summer and with 100% humidity...and Mike still objected.

So using the example of Carl's interests siding with Mike's touring issues on the table of BRI, the Love & Mercy soundtrack deal was a case where a "yes" vote from that entity was a recurring payday without doing anything, including for Mike who had ownership interests in some of those songs which would pay out in perpetuity, and yet Mike objected. So the yes vote from the Wilsons was a similar no-brainer unless Mike was able to convince them somehow to vote no based on Mike's personal hang-ups or whatever justification he was using, and obviously they didn't go with Mike for what seems to be a rare 3 to 1 vote.

I loved LOVE & MERCY so much I pre-ordered two BD discs because I was paranoid it would go out of print immediately and I wanted a "backup". I feared MyKe would swoop in with an injunction or something. Probably irrational, but that was my fear. It also lead me, at least in some part, to go see the film fourteen times during its theatrical run. Obviously I loved the film so that was the main reason for my repeat visits to the theater.

And regarding the soundtrack, there was a slight delay in the release. Did we ever find out why? The film realeased on June 5th (2015) but the soundtrack didn't drop until August 14th. Was that Myke's doing as well? Or was that something else? I did note, upon close inspection, that some of the Atticus Ross soundscapes were ever so slightly different on the soundtrack than within the film.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on July 30, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   :o

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 30, 2020, 06:55:54 PM

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?
Don't worry about that comment Howie, thank you for your contributions here.


Amen to that. Seriously, you are a godsend...Beach Boys fans owe you (and Mark, and Alan) a huge debt of gratitude and anybody who doesn't see that isn't a real fan (and possibly need to get their head examined).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on July 30, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
A couple quick kinda related but still somewhat off-topic questions:

1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?

2. Other than Let Him Run Wild (plus the three above and probably Stevie), has there been anything else that Brian’s vetoed?


As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?
We all appreciate your work, Howie. Thank you for the time you’ve put into the project. I interpreted the above comment as a compliment - dying on the vine is some nice writing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on July 30, 2020, 07:25:57 PM

1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on July 30, 2020, 08:02:33 PM
Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   :o

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??
You should go back and read the posts from the last 24 hours.  Saying "maybe it never existed in the first place" tells me you didn't read back too far.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on July 30, 2020, 08:08:01 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.

I wasn't familiar with the Jack Rieley quote CenturyDeprived's post referenced, so went searching and found the thread containing a copy/paste of a Jack Rieley Q&A that appears to be from 1996. If this set is really held up and the reasons are not logistical, could the answer, even some 50 (petty) years later, be there in his responses concerning the group dynamics and feelings about the Surf's Up material at the time? Am I in the ballpark? Warm? Scalding?

Oh...but in that scenario, it wouldn't make any sense to have greenlit it in the first place and to work so hard on it for the last few years. That'd be really sadistic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 30, 2020, 08:47:20 PM
I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.

I wasn't familiar with the Jack Rieley quote CenturyDeprived's post referenced, so went searching and found the thread containing a copy/paste of a Jack Rieley Q&A that appears to be from 1996. If this set is really held up and the reasons are not logistical, could the answer, even some 50 (petty) years later, be there in his responses concerning the group dynamics and feelings about the Surf's Up material at the time? Am I in the ballpark? Warm? Scalding?

Oh...but in that scenario, it wouldn't make any sense to have greenlit it in the first place and to work so hard on it for the last few years. That'd be really sadistic.


This is the quote, which is sadly way, way accurate. Freakishly so. This quote is to the beach boys what the movie Idiocracy is to current times. Spot-on accurate, Nostradamus-esque prediction:


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on July 30, 2020, 08:52:34 PM

1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.

Funny, since Brian has brought "My Solution" from depths a surprising number of times. He mentioned it being a track on an early version of Love You in the 1976 Bob Harris interview, he cut a new track for it in 1980 as a part of the "Song Within A Song" medley with a new "Shortenin' Bread" track, and he recycled it for the opening of "Happy Days" on Imagination of all albums. It'd be a bit out of character for him to feel embarrassed about releasing it, but of course maybe his feelings about it have since changed. And I always figured that "Thank Him" was simply too murky of a recording quality wise for it to be part of the MIC box set, and so it got put on The Big Beat 1963 digital set where that wasn't much of an issue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 30, 2020, 09:58:18 PM

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?

TBH, I’m pretty sure the VDP reference was meant as a compliment. Would be disappointed if it wasn’t.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 31, 2020, 12:37:13 AM
For some reason I took it as vine as in “Hollywood & Vine” aka Capitol Records, referring to all those he hard work that went into it.

Which is why our voices need to be heard. Not just for us fans, but for those who worked tirelessly behind the scenes to try to ensure the band’s legacy is what it deserves to be. Sadly, such a legacy hasn’t been as important to the band through the years, as Jack Rieley had eloquently stated, which is what angers me as a fan and as a fellow musician.

Trust me when I say I understand the work that goes into compiling a set of such magnitude. My band is doing the same for our 20th next year and when you have a huge amount of recordings to go through, it can become quite cumbersome albeit fun. Trying to sort things through when dates may not have been kept as meticulously? Yeah that’s a pain in the ass. Now (and this doesn’t apply to us thank God) you have to ensure all egos are satisfied. Then there’s getting it approved by the label? For that to go to naught would be a crime.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 31, 2020, 12:43:01 AM

1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.

Funny, since Brian has brought "My Solution" from depths a surprising number of times. He mentioned it being a track on an early version of Love You in the 1976 Bob Harris interview, he cut a new track for it in 1980 as a part of the "Song Within A Song" medley with a new "Shortenin' Bread" track, and he recycled it for the opening of "Happy Days" on Imagination of all albums. It'd be a bit out of character for him to feel embarrassed about releasing it, but of course maybe his feelings about it have since changed. And I always figured that "Thank Him" was simply too murky of a recording quality wise for it to be part of the MIC box set, and so it got put on The Big Beat 1963 digital set where that wasn't much of an issue.

With Brian you never know. I mean, the guy actually dug City Blues out of mothballs from the cocaine sessions and redid that so anything is possible 😏


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on July 31, 2020, 09:58:36 AM
I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on July 31, 2020, 11:56:57 AM
I'm honestly not worried.  It will come out eventually - even this year.  I'm not going to sit and speculate endlessly on the conspiracy behind it.  It could even come down to one measly track being pulled/kept.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on July 31, 2020, 11:57:19 AM
similar thing happening with a recently-announced Thelonious Monk release. an unheard concert from 1968 was unveiled in June and scheduled to be released today, but has now been held up indefinitely due to a dispute between the Monk estate and his former record label. we even got to see what it looked like. so disappointing

(https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Thelonius-Monk-Palo-Alto-packshot.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Gettin Hungry on July 31, 2020, 12:23:33 PM
I was very much looking forward to that Monk release.

Hope we'll get some answers on Feel Flows soon. If I've learned anything as a fan of the Beach Boys, it's to not be surprised by the drama.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 31, 2020, 12:38:42 PM
^ and to consistently attempt to piss away their legacy by making the absolute dumbest decisions at the worst possible time


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on July 31, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   :o

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??
You should go back and read the posts from the last 24 hours.  Saying "maybe it never existed in the first place" tells me you didn't read back too far.

I actually did look through it.  And I was making a joke about it not existing (hence the "Seriously though" line that followed).  Other than a lot of predictable bickering it doesn't seem clear if this is actually coming out or has been cancelled. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 31, 2020, 01:08:48 PM
I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 

I don't want to get bogged down in the semantics of what constitutes "work still to be done", but all indications are that, several release dates having come and gone, what is happening *now* is not a "normal" part of "work" that would be done at this stage. In other words, no, the band doesn't have anything left to do but agree to its release. As far as I've heard, there is no "work" as such left apart from manufacturing/distribution. There are no discussions left about the content of the set from everything we've heard.

And all indications based on insiders and sources in the know is that what has happened with release dates being pushed and the set currently *not* being on the schedule, is not a normal/typical process such a release would follow. This seems to decidedly *not* be a "it will come, they're just doing their thing and it'll be out, it's been planned all along" sort of situation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on July 31, 2020, 01:12:28 PM
I'm honestly not worried.  It will come out eventually - even this year.  I'm not going to sit and speculate endlessly on the conspiracy behind it.  It could even come down to one measly track being pulled/kept.

Like 27 posts now have specifically mentioned that the tracklisting/content of the set is *not* an issue. It has already been mixed/mastered, and they'd only mix and master the set once the track listing is ironed out. Further, in the realm of "anything is possible" if you're for some reason determined to believe like one track veto could be holding this up, we've had specific mention from sources that content/packaging/COVID, none of that is the reason this set isn't on the calendar.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on July 31, 2020, 01:24:32 PM
... and if tracks are veto'd, they would just kill those tracks to get the project moving.

I don't get the talk of "I'm sure it will come out" either - that's like saying, "I'm sure they'll do a lavish box set for Holland and Brian is Back" - sure, these things could happen, but people who are involved in this have told us this is not scheduled for release. That is a very difference statement than something like "the release date has not been set". Not scheduled for release means, in no uncertain terms, there is no release planned - currently. We are not speculating as to when this will be released. We are speculating as to whether or not this will actually be released at all. Currently, the answer seems to be it will not be released. There is no conspiracy. Howie posted that the set is not scheduled for release. I think we can take that at face value.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on July 31, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 :) :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on July 31, 2020, 08:08:38 PM
sorry for the repeating... the message board doesn't like me this evening....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on July 31, 2020, 08:24:16 PM
Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 :) :)

I'd dig it, but I don't think there's any universe in which he'd do that. I don't know if he likes a lot of this material all that much from that Jack Rieley Q&A I was reading. Also, it's not his group's image or their bread and butter. Just a cursory glance at their setlists, and it seems that the only post Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations tracks they regularly play are Bruce's Disney Girls, sometimes Darlin', Sail On Sailor, It's OK, Getcha Back, and of course, Kokomo.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on July 31, 2020, 09:19:43 PM
Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 :) :)

It's quite possible that could be part of the thinking to hold the release for 2021. I mean, technically SURF'S UP and "Feel Flows" was both recorded* & released in calendar year 1971 and next year would be the 50th.

And, apologies if it has already been mentioned (I'm certain it likely has) but the Peter Jackson LET IT BE (Beatles) documentary was pushed to 2021 (https://variety.com/2020/film/news/beatles-get-back-peter-jackson-delayed-1234633265/) – most definitely due to the Covid-19 related "market constraints".

Anything is possible.

* Surf's Up (the song) tracks back to 1966


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 31, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 :) :)

A few factors might disagree with that, although knowing Mike and his touring, who knows.

First - When perhaps the most important archival release since the full box set and Smile Sessions came out, Sunshine Tomorrow, Mike and his band made several nationally televised appearances which included interviews. I believe the biggest was the Washington DC show with John Stamos and Mark McGrath. Instead of giving the release a plug on TV that would reach millions who probably didn't know Sunshine Tomorrow existed yet would be interested, Mike instead focused his marketing and PR and lip service on his horrid Do It Again remake.

He can do whatever he wants, but for f**ks sake, he could have promoted a set with real, archival, mostly unheard Beach Boys music. He did not. Instead he promoted his band and his projects.

Why would he be expected to promote or even tour behind this set when he's done little or nothing to give the previous set a boost, and instead choosing to use his tours and appearances to hawk his own releases? He even found a way to give a copy of "Summer In Paradise" to everyone who bought the GV box set on QVC! Who knows, maybe he's cooked up a way to ride this one to some profits.  ;D

And that leads to #2: I doubt 80-90% of the crowds who go to see Mike's shows would be potential buyers for this set. It's a different focus, different demographic, different kind of fan. Greatest hits versus deep cuts and rarities in a deluxe box. This box set doesn't need Mike's touring to find its audience, the audience for this box is already seeking it out if not demanding it, and being told in Monty Python "Cheese Shop" style..."Sorry, we're fresh out." Or for US viewers, in Seinfeld style..."No soup for you! Next!".

And what I don't understand is Mike would get a lot of cred, a lot of praise, and a lot of positive vibes from a set like this because he did do some fantastic work with the band during this period. Totally separate from what he does now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 31, 2020, 10:51:16 PM
Don't go near the box set, it's kinda sad,
What's happened to the box set, it's really bad,

 :( :( :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 01, 2020, 12:06:49 AM

And what I don't understand is Mike would get a lot of cred, a lot of praise, and a lot of positive vibes from a set like this because he did do some fantastic work with the band during this period. Totally separate from what he does now.


This is a really important point. One which has surprised me a little. I've always seen this band as being one, clearly most talented guy, Brian, and then Dennis as second fiddle (he did seem to like to use strings) as perhaps ghe next best songwriter/producer in the bband.Carl next, and then Al and then Mike as a less talented contributor of essentially some good lyrics.

From what I'm hearing about this box, it sounds like it has the potential to change that perception a lot, and to put things on a much mord even footing.

From what Desper as has said over the years, the guys clearly still allowed Brian to take the lead when he wanted to in this period, but obviously the others were contributing more and more. I always envisaged that the contributions came more so from the Wilson brothers and less so from Al, Mike and Bruce, but if we get this box set it seems I might have to revisit my perception of things. That'll be a good thing.

As an aside, and a similar thing, I must say that one of the biggest impacts of the 50th anniversary period was that it meant I had to listen to All This Is That a few more times, and I started to appreciate that song in a way I hadn't before.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 01, 2020, 03:02:56 AM
Let me start by saying that the following is only my personal perception of how things seem to work with The Beach Boys...

If a vault filled with beautiful, previously unheard music was discovered, one possible reaction from the involved parties might be “this is amazingly gorgeous stuff and it needs to be shared, in spite of the fact that my role in making this music was not as great as others in the band.”

Or another reaction could be “this is amazingly gorgeous stuff and it needs to be shared, because my role in making this music was more important than the public realizes.”

Or another reaction could be “this amazingly gorgeous stuff makes  another member of the band seem more important in its making than me, so I don’t like that, so I don’t want it heard.”

Assign band members to the reaction that fits your perception of each...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on August 01, 2020, 06:00:00 AM
I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 

I don't want to get bogged down in the semantics of what constitutes "work still to be done", but all indications are that, several release dates having come and gone, what is happening *now* is not a "normal" part of "work" that would be done at this stage. In other words, no, the band doesn't have anything left to do but agree to its release. As far as I've heard, there is no "work" as such left apart from manufacturing/distribution. There are no discussions left about the content of the set from everything we've heard.

And all indications based on insiders and sources in the know is that what has happened with release dates being pushed and the set currently *not* being on the schedule, is not a normal/typical process such a release would follow. This seems to decidedly *not* be a "it will come, they're just doing their thing and it'll be out, it's been planned all along" sort of situation.

Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2020, 08:22:21 AM
Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.

Just playing devil's advocate, on the question who are we to tell Mike how to manage his business: Fans especially online have been trying to tell Brian how to manage his business especially since he went solo in 1998. Everything from telling him he should quit touring and retire since his very first solo tour, to who he should or shouldn't work with on his music and how it should sound, up to suggesting he was being controlled and drugged by "handlers", and so many other facets of his "business". So if they can put the business and career decisions and personal life under the microscope as some did (and still do) with these other band members, isn't it par for the course and fair game across the board?

Again devil's advocate, but in this case the fans are the ones who put these guys into mansions and wealth through buying their product for 60 years, I think like fans who buy a sports team's tickets and merchandise and cable TV packages with their money, they should be able to offer opinions on that team.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 01, 2020, 09:11:46 AM
Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.

Just playing devil's advocate, on the question who are we to tell Mike how to manage his business: Fans especially online have been trying to tell Brian how to manage his business especially since he went solo in 1998. Everything from telling him he should quit touring and retire since his very first solo tour, to who he should or shouldn't work with on his music and how it should sound, up to suggesting he was being controlled and drugged by "handlers", and so many other facets of his "business". So if they can put the business and career decisions and personal life under the microscope as some did (and still do) with these other band members, isn't it par for the course and fair game across the board?

Again devil's advocate, but in this case the fans are the ones who put these guys into mansions and wealth through buying their product for 60 years, I think like fans who buy a sports team's tickets and merchandise and cable TV packages with their money, they should be able to offer opinions on that team.

To add to this, I think it's also the mark of a healthy fanbase that people are publicly speaking out about a project they want to see released. To be honest, no artist really asks for the opinions and guidance from fans. But what makes a fan a fan is their passion for the artist they support...even if that means some people getting on social media asking for a certain set of songs to be released.

I think it's fair game if people express their opinions to bandmembers on Facebook, petition.org, etc (if they do it in a civil way) about an entity which they have spent thousands of dollars, time, and money on. If fans didn't express their opinions to the members of this band would we even have SMiLE now? I doubt it. If Brian wasn't pushed a bit by Darian to play Heroes and Villains, if Darian didn't help Brian piece together BWPS, we wouldn't have the Smile Sessions right now. And we could say that it was none of Darian's business, that Brian is his own man and had his logical reasons for not wanting to revisit SMiLE material, but Brian seems to be better off because of it, and the world got to experience some of the most creative music to come out of the 1960s.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on August 01, 2020, 09:29:33 AM

To add to this, I think it's also the mark of a healthy fanbase that people are publicly speaking out about a project they want to see released. To be honest, no artist really asks for the opinions and guidance from fans. But what makes a fan a fan is their passion for the artist they support...even if that means some people getting on social media asking for a certain set of songs to be released.

I think it's fair game if people express their opinions to bandmembers on Facebook, petition.org, etc (if they do it in a civil way) about an entity which they have spent thousands of dollars, time, and money on. If fans didn't express their opinions to the members of this band would we even have SMiLE now? I doubt it. If Brian wasn't pushed a bit by Darian to play Heroes and Villains, if Darian didn't help Brian piece together BWPS, we wouldn't have the Smile Sessions right now. And we could say that it was none of Darian's business, that Brian is his own man and had his logical reasons for not wanting to revisit SMiLE material, but Brian seems to be better off because of it, and the world got to experience some of the most creative music to come out of the 1960s.

That's such a great point.  Last fall when David Leaf had his event at UCLA when he screened his film of Smile's London debut, he introduced it by relating that he had moved to California in the '70s with the express purpose of getting Brian to finish and release Smile.  And Probyn later mentioned how he had taken out an ad in an LA newspaper in the '80s begging Capitol to release Smile.  Darian and Domenic Priore were also present at that event, and who can dismiss their respective contributions to keeping the Smile flame alive?  Smile was, is and always will be about Brian Wilson's music and explosion of creativity in 1966, but does BWPS or the Smile box happen without the decades-long efforts of fans like Leaf, Darian, Probyn and Domenic?   No way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2020, 09:57:36 AM
Those are great points - It was the enthusiasm and dedications of the fans that made Smile happen, and I don't think anyone would suggest that the fans and the artists are worse off that we got Brian's completed work both live and on disc alongside the sessions box with the original material.

Important to note how there was a time not too long ago when the idea of fans getting either a completed Smile, an official Capitol release, AND Brian Wilson touring and playing live shows would have been considered pure fantasy, if not impossible. I think the requests, enthusiasm, and support from the fans helped make the impossible a reality.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SydBarrett on August 01, 2020, 10:58:10 AM
I just hope we don't act too entitled


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: picassosson on August 01, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 01, 2020, 02:22:20 PM
WTF is wrong with them?

They've both got (very different) mental health issues.
Well you asked.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 01, 2020, 04:58:34 PM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 01, 2020, 05:15:47 PM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

I mean, in their defense they said that is the saddest "thread" ever, not that it was the saddest event ever.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: picassosson on August 01, 2020, 05:45:28 PM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

Yes, well - in Beach Boys message board proportion. And... maybe not even there. Point taken. Goes to show how spoiled I've been in recent years with the copyright releases. I was just really looking forward to this release, and let my guard down in terms of not being able to imagine it being cancelled. For the band to green light the vault clearing of LEID IN HAWAII, the copyright releases for Friends/2020, but not THIS... I was just kind of blindsided. But hey, after a particularly good decade archive wise I really somehow believed this much longer history of dysfunction and bizarre decision making was behind us.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 01, 2020, 06:04:30 PM
Me too. My daughter had been looking forward to the set too. When I told her Jaymie said something like how every time they have a chance to do escape the “Full House and Kokomo lameness “ they “ go and screw it all up as usual “.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 01, 2020, 06:42:40 PM
For the band to green light the vault clearing of LEID IN HAWAII, the copyright releases for Friends/2020, but not THIS... I was just kind of blindsided. But hey, after a particularly good decade archive wise I really somehow believed this much longer history of dysfunction and bizarre decision making was behind us.

This is a good point - it can't possibly be an issue of quality holding this one back - Lei'd in Hawaii is one of their most amateurish performances ever (both the actual live performance and the studio redo) - and they still released that in full. They also put an acapella version of Never Learn Not to Love on the 20/20 set. It'd certainly be weird if a sudden interest in preserving reputation was the reason for this release being stalled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 02, 2020, 07:44:09 AM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

I mean, in their defense they said that is the saddest "thread" ever, not that it was the saddest event ever.

That's exactly what was said. The reply wasn't needed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 02, 2020, 01:04:07 PM
This is how I see it:
There never was an official announcement for this release, was there? So, no need to get mad that something doesn't get released at this point when it wasn't even announced in the first place.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 02, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
Al and Bruce mentioning it is about as official of an announcement without actually making it IMHO.

Oh well. I’m not nearly as angry as I was the other day; just frustrated and disgusted. But honestly, if the band doesn’t give a sh*t about their legacy, why do we care so much?

As I stated before I really feel bad for those who worked so hard to try to bring this to us, the fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 02, 2020, 04:41:53 PM
I waited 40 plus years for Smile so I can wait a few extra months for the box set without getting my knickers in an emotional knot.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 02, 2020, 04:49:21 PM
I waited 40 plus years for Smile so I can wait a few extra months for the box set without getting my knickers in an emotional knot.

Well I would imagine there are some fans worried about possibly compromised immune systems during the COVID era and wouldn’t mind hearing the set sooner rather than later. So getting knickers tied into an emotion knot makes sense to me in those cases.

I can indeed say I’ve been blessed as a new fan (10 years now) to become a fan in such a time when we are drenched in copyright releases, amazing box sets, Brian’s solo output, etc. So I do need to admit that I have a lot to be thankful for. However the Surf’s Up era material has seemingly been a constant hangup for the band (wasn’t there a two-disc set of unreleased material that never really saw the light of day?). I just hope this doesn’t turn into that all over again.

Edit: also people are pissed because the “few extra months” you speak of doesn’t currently exist. This thing has no scheduled release date so we may never see the Feel Flows boxset.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on August 02, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  :p


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 02, 2020, 04:53:34 PM
Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  :p

I mean, if a member of the band is pissed that 500 members of an online forum want to spend $120 a piece on this boxset then I don’t know what to say. However I’m sure the hangup is something 70 times more petulant than some annoyed fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 02, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  :p

I mean, if a member of the band is pissed that 500 members of an online forum want to spend $120 a piece on this boxset then I don’t know what to say. However I’m sure the hangup is something 70 times more petulant than some annoyed fans.

Yup


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 02, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
I want the boxset dammit! ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 02, 2020, 06:27:48 PM
 Some thoughts:
1.Maybe I should tell Mike on Twitter that the original version of Big Sur is the best Beach Boys song of the 1970s, and we need a version with pristine fidelity.
2. Mike wrote in his book of tension between Bruce and the Wilson brothers in 1970-71, to the point of putting up a "No Wilsons Allowed" sign on the studio door. Could there be an issue with the liner notes regarding Jack Rieley?
3. Maybe the delay is all over whether to include My Solution and Seasons In the Sun. ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 02, 2020, 11:19:07 PM
Everyone: sign the petition. How can it hurt?

The one scenario I have not seen discussed re: the state of limbo for FEEL FLOWS is that Mike is pushing for a bunch of concessions regarding a 60th anniversary tour and he's decided to use this box set as some form of blackmail leverage. It could be something like Brian & Al want Blondie on the tour, and Mike wants Stamos. Or he has some unusual ideas about how to divvy up the proceeds that will work to his financial advantage as compensation for his being widely perceived as the "heavy" in the sour-mash ending to C50.

The way to put a stop to all that would be for someone to steal the master tapes for "Kokomo" and threaten to burn them if Mike doesn't follow Van Dyke's advice to Brian about SOS and "cut the sh*t."

 >:D :police: :3d :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 03, 2020, 08:16:17 AM
Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  :p

The "complaining" (read: saying we'll pay money for the band's product) came AFTER the friggin' delay. This isn't funny, if it's trying to be. What does this possibly add to what's going on with trying to get this set released?

Seriously, looking at those that love this band and want this set and have now seen insiders explain in as much detail as humanly possible what's going on, yet continue to ignore that information, I don't know which people are being purposely incredulous, which are trolling, and which are just trying to deflect the seriousness (yes, relative to how "serious" a musical release can be) of this by making dumb jokes.

Do you really think those involved with this set, and those in the know, would want to be rallying fans to advocate for this release if they thought fans advocating (which unfortunately a few seem determined to weirdly portray as "complaining" or "whining") for the set was what imperiled it in the first place?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 03, 2020, 08:27:49 AM
This is how I see it:
There never was an official announcement for this release, was there? So, no need to get mad that something doesn't get released at this point when it wasn't even announced in the first place.

Ignoring that advocating for a release is not "getting mad", this is completely illogical.

If this project never existed anywhere but in the minds of fans who wanted it, then yeah, it would be silly to say "release it!" when there's nothing ready to release (even then, though, it wouldn't be silly for fans to tell a band what they'd like and what they're willing to buy).

But you have PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THIS SET explaining that it was GREENLIT, MIXED, MASTERED, AND READY TO GO.

Further, one would have to be extremely dense or feigning incredulity (or I guess just not actually into the band or interested in archival releases) to not realize that what's happening is that a legitimate project that was greenlit is now in jeopardy and the idea in bringing this all up now is for us to make a final push and advocate for its release.

Stebbins was right; there are a hand full of people seeming to just stumble around not seeing the big flashing light indicating what's going on here. (Or purposely ignoring it). We have everything but a feature-length documentary naming every name on this one, people.

Project done, with obvious goal of being released. Project currently not planned for release. All but a notarized statement informing you that the hold-up is not due to COVID or the content of the set (not the music, not the liners, not the cover art, not the title, etc.). The prompt now: Let the band and everybody know we want this set and that both fans *and* the band will be better off for releasing it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 03, 2020, 08:29:28 AM
Since many have apparently not paid attention to many details revealed in this thread, especially from Howie, and continue to speculate that the release is delayed and possibly cancelled due to liner notes, etc., perhaps Billy or HeyJude could start a new thread on the status of this set.  I’d try myself but don’t want to screw it up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 03, 2020, 08:32:13 AM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

C'mon. In the grand scheme life and death issues will always trump talking about a band. Obviously the previous post was hyperbolic. I don't believe anybody literally thinks this thread is the saddest thing ever in human history. Anybody who has common sense realizes that.

I take all of these current events very, very seriously (see my posts in the 2020 touring band thread), but sorry, I've never been a fan of jumping into an *obviously not life and death* hobbyist (or whatever) discussion and dropping the mic with a "the world has real problems" commentary.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 03, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

C'mon. In the grand scheme life and death issues will always trump talking about a band. Obviously the previous post was hyperbolic. I don't believe anybody literally thinks this thread is the saddest thing ever in human history.

I take all of these current events very, very seriously (see my posts in the 2020 touring band thread), but sorry, I've never been a fan of jumping into an *obviously not life and death* hobbyist (or whatever) discussion and dropping the mic with a "the world has real problems" commentary. Anybody who has common sense realizes that.

I don't have common sense.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 03, 2020, 08:44:49 AM
Since many have apparently not paid attention to many details revealed in this thread, especially from Howie, and continue to speculate that the release is delayed and possibly cancelled due to liner notes, etc., perhaps Billy or HeyJude could start a new thread on the status of this set.  I’d try myself but don’t want to screw it up.

Speaking as a moderator here, I think having one dedicated thread as we do now is the best way for people to easily find updates. When there are multiple threads things get lost in the shuffle.

What I will do is pin this thread so it appears at the top of the discussions so it's easy to find.

Any other requests or concerns please drop me a line.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Vale on August 03, 2020, 08:46:46 AM
I want the boxset dammit! ;)

I've never wanted something so much.
Checking all the time for news here and there. I need this boxset.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 03, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
Project done, with obvious goal of being released. Project currently not planned for release. All but a notarized statement informing you that the hold-up is not due to COVID or the content of the set (not the music, not the liners, not the cover art, not the title, etc.). The prompt now: Let the band and everybody know we want this set and that both fans *and* the band will be better off for releasing it.

And this is what is so mind-blowing to me: that fans actually have to raise a fuss just so they can SPEND money right now. I don't know about the rest of you all, but COVID put a dent in the ol' finances. But yet here I am gladly willing to save up a little extra just to be able to listen to some amazing music. Think about that: during a global pandemic where the world is on the brink of financial chaos and we're all being told to BEG a certain band-member to allow us to spend our hard earned money on something other than essentials. Given the history of this band it shouldn't even surprise me that we need to beg the schoolyard bully to take our lunch-money.

I signed the petition, I may write on Mike's Facebook wall, but other than that I don't really know what more can be done.

It's funny, someone on the EH forum was bragging that their forum didn't "implode" due to the recent news about the Feel Flows set...implying that Smiley Smile supposedly "imploded" due to this news - no, what we have is 975+ posts in this thread alone that shows that hundreds of fans want this set...as opposed to the paltry 6 pages of dry musings from a prominent member there deflecting, as usual, any blame away from Mike Love. That place is worse than BBB.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 03, 2020, 10:20:51 AM
Thank god an "interested party" isn't after me and OSD anymore... ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 03, 2020, 10:50:47 AM
Thank god an "interested party" isn't after me and OSD anymore... ;)

The guy recently created a thread asking why people don't use their real names for their username. Gee whiz, maybe it's because they don't want to be friggin doxed by an "interested party", or they don't want the police called on them from halfway around the world :o imagine that!

Seriously, you can't make this stuff up. And sadly people willfully participate there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 03, 2020, 12:54:05 PM
Project done, with obvious goal of being released. Project currently not planned for release. All but a notarized statement informing you that the hold-up is not due to COVID or the content of the set (not the music, not the liners, not the cover art, not the title, etc.). The prompt now: Let the band and everybody know we want this set and that both fans *and* the band will be better off for releasing it.

And this is what is so mind-blowing to me: that fans actually have to raise a fuss just so they can SPEND money right now. I don't know about the rest of you all, but COVID put a dent in the ol' finances. But yet here I am gladly willing to save up a little extra just to be able to listen to some amazing music. Think about that: during a global pandemic where the world is on the brink of financial chaos and we're all being told to BEG a certain band-member to allow us to spend our hard earned money on something other than essentials. Given the history of this band it shouldn't even surprise me that we need to beg the schoolyard bully to take our lunch-money.

I signed the petition, I may write on Mike's Facebook wall, but other than that I don't really know what more can be done.

It's funny, someone on the EH forum was bragging that their forum didn't "implode" due to the recent news about the Feel Flows set...implying that Smiley Smile supposedly "imploded" due to this news - no, what we have is 975+ posts in this thread alone that shows that hundreds of fans want this set...as opposed to the paltry 6 pages of dry musings from a prominent member there deflecting, as usual, any blame away from Mike Love. That place is worse than BBB.

Anyone depicting this place "imploding" due to this news is *missing the entire point.*

News that this set was finished and is just sitting there unreleased was not just plopped onto this board as an "FYI." I think everybody wants the fans to let the band/pertinent parties know that this set should be released.

Otherwise, we'd all still be sitting here with thumbs up our a** assuming a release in the next few months given the talk of the set by several band members.

There's a reason we're talking about this, and a reason we're talking about it now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 03, 2020, 01:04:30 PM
Exactly.

People here and elsewhere seem to be under the impression this is just delayed for a couple months. I don’t know how much more clear “Currently NOT scheduled for release” could be. Especially when the source is Howie Edelson who was passionate enough about this release to go out on a limb to get the fans involved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 03, 2020, 02:14:44 PM
Is it possible that someone in the BB's camp heard that the Let it Be reissue/remix/remake was postponed till 2021, and decided that was the way to go? It makes no sense to me. A lot of us have been stuck at home for the last 4 or 5 months, we've had plenty of time to listen to box sets, watch dvd's, they should get this stuff out now...and before we all die of covid.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 03, 2020, 02:18:48 PM
Typical Beach Boys...have a chance to beat the Beatles to the punch, and instead it’s “nah, fam, we good“. 😒


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 03, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
What are the odds that a certain band-member was pissed that another band-member boycotted The Beach Boys earlier this year. Granted, the boxset was supposed to come out February 2020 which is exactly when the boycott occurred, so more likely this thing was dead-in-the-water before then. But it does make me wonder.

A lot of us have been stuck at home for the last 4 or 5 months, we've had plenty of time to listen to box sets, watch dvd's, they should get this stuff out now...and before we all die of covid.

The Nintendo Switch gaming system seemingly sold out everywhere when the quarantine started. They were selling for like twice their price on Ebay for a while. People are itching for home entertainment. When Stebbins wrote that even "the label wants this thing released" I lost a lot of hope. The label knows this thing is a hot ticket item and it's being kicked to the curb for whatever reason. Now is the time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 03, 2020, 06:13:22 PM
When Stebbins wrote that even "the label wants this thing released" I lost a lot of hope. The label knows this thing is a hot ticket item and it's being kicked to the curb for whatever reason. Now is the time.

The person holding this up just seems to like f###ing around as a form of point scoring - it assists his fragile ego to exert some control where he can, but at the end of the day he's smart enough to know (I hope) that he'll be better off $$-wise when he lets it through. That's my positive outlook on this.

In my country, there's a saying, "never stand between a labor politician and a bag of money". Mutandis mutandae, I feel this applies here. There's a substantial bag in this box set, and it's time dependent.

At the end of the day, greed will win out, but not before a point has been made within the group.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on August 04, 2020, 11:48:00 AM
Question for those who might know: would all unreleased songs (up to the end of 1970) still need to see the light of day or risk falling into Europe's public domain? And, potentially, do you think we would still see alt versions of existing songs under some kind of digital release dump?

Obviously there would be a considerable loss in terms of the presentation of the boxset and what this offers to the Beach Boys' narrative, but I am genuinely curious from somebody who could say on a musical front the kind of impact a non-release would have in terms of actually hearing the songs in one format or another.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 04, 2020, 12:33:54 PM
<<<<<shouts into the void>>>>>>>

It would be nice, as compensation, if BRI finally released that online sessionography they promised with MiC....  :angel:



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 04, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
Is it possible that some of the unreleased stuff is so good that some in the band believe it will make them look bad that it wasn't included on the albums originally?  Probably not, but that thought just popped into my head.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 04, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
Unless I'm missing something, all Howie said was that it currently wasn't scheduled for release.  That could mean a number of things.  Do we have any actual information that any of the band members are deliberately holding up this release?  It seems like there is a lot of speculation going on for a project that was never officially announced in the first place.  Would be nice to get clarity on whether Howie's comments meant it was cancelled, postponed or just simply a release date hasn't been set yet. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 04, 2020, 02:35:03 PM
This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 04, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
I sent very polite tweets to Brian, Mike and Al begging them to ensure the prompt release of the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 07:55:52 AM
Unless I'm missing something, all Howie said was that it currently wasn't scheduled for release.  That could mean a number of things.  Do we have any actual information that any of the band members are deliberately holding up this release?  It seems like there is a lot of speculation going on for a project that was never officially announced in the first place.  Would be nice to get clarity on whether Howie's comments meant it was cancelled, postponed or just simply a release date hasn't been set yet. 

Several release dates have been pushed. It is currently not on the release schedule.

If it were canceled unequivocally, I don't think anybody would be trying to get the fans to advocate for its release.

If it were not on the release schedule simply because a date hasn't been set yet, I don't think anybody would be telling us it's *not* on the release schedule and that they "wish" we could hear it.

I think it's pretty clear that the set is not definitively canceled, and that is has been postponed several times and it now in figurative if not literal purgatory where we can either tell everyone we want it released, or it can eventually just die off and never happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 07:59:29 AM
Is it possible that someone in the BB's camp heard that the Let it Be reissue/remix/remake was postponed till 2021, and decided that was the way to go? It makes no sense to me. A lot of us have been stuck at home for the last 4 or 5 months, we've had plenty of time to listen to box sets, watch dvd's, they should get this stuff out now...and before we all die of covid.

This BB set and its scheduling (or lack thereof) has *zero* to do with any Beatles releases or any other artist's release (or postponement).

I'm guessing the Beatles LIB project is on ice specifically because they wanted a theatrical release of the new Peter Jackson film (which is dumb because that film will not make a bunch of money theatrically, even with theaters back at 100%, but that's a whole other ball of a wax).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 08:01:34 AM
What are the odds that a certain band-member was pissed that another band-member boycotted The Beach Boys earlier this year. Granted, the boxset was supposed to come out February 2020 which is exactly when the boycott occurred, so more likely this thing was dead-in-the-water before then. But it does make me wonder.

From what I've heard, that whole trophy hunting gig kerfuffle is not impacting why the "Feel Flows" set is not on the release schedule.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 08:10:04 AM
Question for those who might know: would all unreleased songs (up to the end of 1970) still need to see the light of day or risk falling into Europe's public domain? And, potentially, do you think we would still see alt versions of existing songs under some kind of digital release dump?

Obviously there would be a considerable loss in terms of the presentation of the boxset and what this offers to the Beach Boys' narrative, but I am genuinely curious from somebody who could say on a musical front the kind of impact a non-release would have in terms of actually hearing the songs in one format or another.

I think that is unknown, but the most viable train of thought on this is that they'd only have to protect unreleased titles.

And this is why the TIMING of releasing this set *now* (or soon; this year anyway) is important.

Any scenario of dumping anything as a digital-only "copyright extension" thing will absolutely undercut the box set, and possibly lead to its definitive cancellation.

Scenario 1: The digital dump only has a small amount of tracks consisting of only unreleased titles. This "spoils" some of the most exciting stuff on a box set, undermining/deflating it.

Scenario 2: The digital dump is conformed more to something like the '67 or '68 sets, where unreleased titles are augmented by alternate versions, forming a more robust "multi disc* sized set. This would spoil *even more* of the box, and undermine it to the point where even many hardcore fans would find it hard to pay to buy it all again in a physical set, to *possibly* get some undetermined amount of additional tracks.

Scenario 3: The digital dump has the full contents of the boxed set. In the scenario, I can't envision them also then releasing the boxed set.

Each of these scenarios has an increasing likelihood of ending the actual full boxed set, and in the land of of the BBs, I can easily envision the "worst of both worlds" scenario where a digital dump has some of the good stuff, but is missing a lot of it, but has just enough to justify just canceling the box.

I'm not saying the box would be definitively dead in any particular scenario. But again, there's a reason folks are helping us make a push for this set *now*.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 08:15:27 AM
Is it possible that some of the unreleased stuff is so good that some in the band believe it will make them look bad that it wasn't included on the albums originally?  Probably not, but that thought just popped into my head.

No.

While "it's too good, we shouldn't release it" does sound like Beach Boys-style mind-boggling reasoning, I don't believe anything like that is at play here.

Again, I think people need to focus less on the *why* (meaning, that it's a bunch of machinations unrelated specifically to the set, but still impacting it), and focus more on that it's simply not on the schedule and the advocating needs to be about how great the material and set is and why they should release it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 08:18:40 AM
This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 05, 2020, 09:53:07 AM
"At times like this isn't it nice to know there's something you can depend on - The Beach Boys"




Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAnFklmCGoI


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on August 05, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?

The exciting thing is that we don't know; there's stuff we don't even know about.

But even the stuff we know about is pretty tantalizing. There's the stuff that was on the "Brother Rarities Proposed Bonus Tracks" disc that was discovered several years ago (some of which overlaps with stuff on the not-really-an-album "Landlocked" reel):

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17621.0.html

Various backing track, stripped-down mixes, and vocals-only mixes seem a strong possibility.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 05, 2020, 02:08:43 PM
Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?
Clean version of My Solution plus alternates.
Clean version of the original Big Sur.
Brian demo of 'Til I Die
Positive lyric version of 'Til I Die.
Vocal-only versions of Sunflower, Surf's up tracks
Backing tracks of tracks.
Loop de Loop as done in the early 1970s
Soulful Old Man Sunshine with Carl's "Shunshine" fixed  ;D
Every version possible of Break Away


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 05, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
Any possible newly discovered Brian vocals, especially considering this is my favorite period of his vocally


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2020, 03:23:22 PM
Look at it this way. That "Brother Rarities" in-house thing looked pretty tantalizing, and that was presumably compiled *20* years ago with less knowledge of the depths of the archives, and was compiled under the assumption of having left-over room on a "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" reissue for some bonus tracks to fill the remaining 30-40 minutes of one CD.

"Feel Flows" was compiled years after a pretty thorough run through the full tape archives, and while exact size is unknown, I think it's safe to assume it's multi-disc.

I don't think anybody working on the set would be so excited if this set was just like an old "Landlocked" boot with some slightly alternate mixes thrown in.

Some of those tracks on that "Brother Rarities" set are game-changers all on their own. A couple of alternate versions of "'Til I Die" would be worth the price of admission. The instrumental piano demo is amazing, even in its simplicity.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 05, 2020, 04:20:02 PM
I wonder if they ventured beyond Surf's Up and into late 1971 and 1972. Maybe something like "Carry Me Home" was included on this set. I doubt they had a hard cutoff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 05, 2020, 04:22:22 PM
It's amazing to me that in some circles there seems to be either a denial or a complete deflection of the facts which were laid out for all to read in this discussion. "Move along, nothing more to see here, no one knows, etc..." doesn't work in a situation like this where something is reported as completed and sitting dormant on the shelf.

If it takes emails and messages and whatnot to the band members to change the status of this release, that suggests it's a band member issue. For whatever messed up reason that may be. But then fans should start emailing and messaging and flooding them with comments asking for it to come out. That sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Apart from what's already been listed, how about some Sunflower studio session tapes and maybe more versions/mixes of Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, heck that alone would be worth the price of admission. Same with Til I Die, let people hear the genius of this stuff before it's too late.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 05, 2020, 04:54:48 PM
It's amazing to me that in some circles there seems to be either a denial or a complete deflection of the facts which were laid out for all to read in this discussion. "Move along, nothing more to see here, no one knows, etc..." doesn't work in a situation like this where something is reported as completed and sitting dormant on the shelf.

If it takes emails and messages and whatnot to the band members to change the status of this release, that suggests it's a band member issue. For whatever messed up reason that may be. But then fans should start emailing and messaging and flooding them with comments asking for it to come out. That sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Apart from what's already been listed, how about some Sunflower studio session tapes and maybe more versions/mixes of Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, heck that alone would be worth the price of admission. Same with Til I Die, let people hear the genius of this stuff before it's too late.


And truly, you hit the nail on the head there GF. Before it's too late. Fans are getting old. Fans as they grow older are dying from natural causes, and of course from this dastardly disease that has sadly permeated the planet.

There are well documented stories of folks - who were on their deathbeds - who were able to get advance screenings of some of the more recent Star Wars movies so that they could see them and experience joy before passing away. This of course involved the movie studios and the creative people to sign off on such a wonderful gift and perform and act of kindness, which bent the rules to help somebody enjoy a piece of art as their dying wish.

This band and its members may not be aware of this, but whoever in the band is holding this release up could literally be depriving elderly or otherwise sick fans of this band of joy during their last moments. This may sound like an exaggeration but I really don't think it is. Especially at this moment in time when depression and mental health issues run rampant due to the world being upside down, the healing power of music cannot be underestimated.

It sounds crazy but I have no doubt that this band's music is so powerful that it could not only heal and give emotional comfort to those who are not well, but specifically this could mean so much to people, beyond the scope of what the members of the band can realize. I literally think that a release of this magnitude could bring extra years of life to people. The healing power of music.  It's that special.

To think this could all be squandered for some sort of petty squabbling, ego issues, or whatever nonsense is causing a delay/cancellation - and I have no doubt that this would be something petty that's causing it - is absolutely tragic.  

I really think there's a way this whole situation could be framed to the band which they would realize the words I'm saying are true. And of course the issues may not be petty to them personally, but if they care about the potential of helping fans experience joy at this very dark moment in time, and just how big a deal that is to many people - I would hope they could figure things out and let this release happen.

For the love of all that's good in the world. C'mon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 05, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Deleted by author.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 05, 2020, 05:04:37 PM
I should also add ... today on Sirius XM radio I heard an ad for some upcoming Rolling Stones box set. I'm not some huge fan of that band so I wasn't listening super closely, but I did catch a few words speaking about how it would have all sorts of different tracks, it was gushing to the fans that this is some gooood RS stuff.

It's insane to me that this band, by comparison, has to have its fanbase pleading for such a release to see the light of day. Well, that's the situation we are in, and we've got to find a way to make this release happen.

If this is Mike who is holding this up, I really hope that his competitive spirit against the Rolling Stones can kick into high gear. If ever we need that competitive spirit that he showed at the Hall of Fame speech, it's right now.

This band can absolutely kick the ass of the Rolling Stones when it comes to output, and now is the perfect chance to gain points  for the BBs brand.

And I swear, I feel confident that there will be reviewers who will talk about the positive contributions that Mike brought to the music, and how All I Wanna Do is a supremely underrated track.

This has simply got to happen. Of all of the different eras during this band's existence - wouldn't it make sense that the era that shows more than any other that they were a real "band" with positive contributions from every single member, be an era that should be highlighted?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 05, 2020, 06:30:49 PM
The Rolling Stones box set in question is the Goat's Head Soup deluxe edition. I have heard many Stones outtakes over the years in less than great fidelity, and BB outtakes are 1,000 times more interesting.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on August 06, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.
On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on August 06, 2020, 10:15:53 AM
Has to be said that while the Stones are always willing to open the Atlantic archives-post 1970-fans hungering for outtakes from the Brian Jones years will not get satisfaction because the stones and Allan klein’s estate/abko will never reach agreement-so all abko can put out is remastered versions of the existing catalog with no input from mick and Keith-so the Stones are just as dysfunctional as the BBs in some respects


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 06, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Has to be said that while the Stones are always willing to open the Atlantic archives-post 1970-fans hungering for outtakes from the Brian Jones years will not get satisfaction because the stones and Allan klein’s estate/abko will never reach agreement-so all abko can put out is remastered versions of the existing catalog with no input from mick and Keith-so the Stones are just as dysfunctional as the BBs in some respects

I'm by no means a Stones expert, but it sounds like for material they own outright, they manage to get stuff out.

The "Feel Flows" set is all BRI-owned and controlled material.

60s material is owned by Capitol, with unreleased material requiring BRI approval.

Yet, it has been 60s material that has been mined far more than 70s/80s/90s material. There are of course many reasons for this (obviously PS and Smile yield more demand).

But BRI owns a TOOOONNNNNNN of studio and live material from 1970 to, well, the present, of which there are no external (meaning non-band/corporate member) roadblocks. Yet this is the stuff that is always more difficult to get out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 06, 2020, 11:29:05 AM
This is the quote that made me think it may be cancelled:

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Jon specifically says here "maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look good right now."

I don't think this can be spelled out any more explicitly. It's not looking good, it's not on the schedule. It hasn't been definitely canceled, otherwise nobody would be bothering to let fans know they need to advocate for it.
On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

If you're happy just sitting back and making the mind-blowing prediction that "something might happen some day, whatever", that's fine.

But this attitude would not be based on what's actually going on with this set.

What people in the know, including people who have worked on this set, are trying to say is that, *if you actually care about hearing this material*, then you absolutely SHOULD worry about it right now.

Obviously, this isn't a life-or-death situation. Nobody should have a panic attack over it or let it control their lives.

But within the scope of caring about the band and having this interest in our lives, this is something to get worked up about and worried about not happening if things don't change.

I feel like there are some BB fans doing this:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/4b/2f/934b2f94ac95b6e41f09170db556b194.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 06, 2020, 12:26:57 PM
Are we really sure that this is a band member issue?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 06, 2020, 01:29:21 PM
Are we really sure that this is a band member issue?

Read what Stebbins wrote again. (As well as what others have said; who and what we've been saying *isn't* the issue) 

There's a point at which you either have to believe those in the know, and those that have and are working on these sets, or you're saying they're wrong.

The precise backroom politics and reasoning behind this aren't going to be spelled out in bloody detail, nor are specific names going to be named. Maybe somebody, I don't know.

But the important thing to understand is that there's an amazing set ready to go, and it isn't planned for release right now. The *only* thing to do given the info that can be put out there (and frankly, the only thing to do even if we knew every minute detail and knew all the names) is to tell the band and pertinent parties (frankly, tell everybody; why not?) that we want this set, and it would be a good thing for the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 06, 2020, 02:54:13 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly take digital only releases over nothing at all, but what engenders a not insignificant amount of envy is that recently, all of these fantastic 60's/70's artists and albums which are celebrating 50th anniversaries (in addition to copyright extension necessities), have been getting such amazing reissues and/or box sets, while we have not had a physical release in now over three years - and even then, it could have been bigger what with all the extra sessions and live material that was digitally dumped after the fact at the end of the year.

And not only are so many others getting physical releases, they're getting multiple deluxe physical releases. For goodness sake, McCartney's Flaming Pie, which isn't even that old (I'm in my 30's and it came out while I was in HS), got five different deluxe physical sets. Also, through the superdeluxeedition site and Hoffman forums, I stumbled on the Richard and Linda Thompson box set news. I checked them out on Spotify and it's right up my alley, so I bit. Now, I'd never heard of them, and even my parents with a huge eclectic 60's/70's record collection have never heard of them, and as far as I can tell, they hardly (or maybe never) even broke into the charts anywhere, yet apparently there's a worldwide market for an 8-disc set.

I don't pretend to know how the intricacies of this industry works, but I have a hard time believing with all these products out there, many with multiple formats to choose from, that there isn't a robust market for, or they couldn't turn a profit on, a single format 5-disc release. And it's not like people are pressuring them to begin a daunting two year long project without any notion of where it's going, what would be on it, or who would want it - it's apparently already done! With almost unprecedented economic turmoil and massive unemployment, we have to beg them to now take our money. I have a hard time believing the hold up is the pandemic, when so many other things are coming out. I also have a hard time believing it's the distributing label, the two members who teased it, the estate of the member whose song titles the set, or the member who seems to need to read from a cue card to record a 15-second "Hi, this is...hope everybody is staying safe" YouTube video. Reasoning and over 50 years of precedent hint at the holdup. Could be wrong - hopefully wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on August 06, 2020, 05:36:30 PM
On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

If you're happy just sitting back and making the mind-blowing prediction that "something might happen some day, whatever", that's fine.

But this attitude would not be based on what's actually going on with this set.

What people in the know, including people who have worked on this set, are trying to say is that, *if you actually care about hearing this material*, then you absolutely SHOULD worry about it right now.

Obviously, this isn't a life-or-death situation. Nobody should have a panic attack over it or let it control their lives.

But within the scope of caring about the band and having this interest in our lives, this is something to get worked up about and worried about not happening if things don't change.
Look at what you more or less just wrote and how you come off as someone coming unglued... ;D

It's fine to sit back and wait.. BUT YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD WORRY
But it isn't a life or death situation AND nobody should have a panic attack over it or or let it control their lives...
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING TO GET WORKED UP ABOUT AND WORRIED ABOUT NOT HAPPENING!

You have literally gone mad from this.  You are the one who is worried, you are having a panic attack, it's clearly controlling your life and yet you just told me not to be worried, not have a panic attack, not let it control my life. :)

I love message boards for threads like this and posts like yours.  I can tell you are trying to be calm Hey Jude, but in reality you are losing it.  It's funny to watch.  I feel for you.  But I also don't care.  It will come eventually. :angel:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 06, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
Why are you on the thread if ya don’t care?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 06, 2020, 06:57:20 PM
On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

If you're happy just sitting back and making the mind-blowing prediction that "something might happen some day, whatever", that's fine.

But this attitude would not be based on what's actually going on with this set.

What people in the know, including people who have worked on this set, are trying to say is that, *if you actually care about hearing this material*, then you absolutely SHOULD worry about it right now.

Obviously, this isn't a life-or-death situation. Nobody should have a panic attack over it or let it control their lives.

But within the scope of caring about the band and having this interest in our lives, this is something to get worked up about and worried about not happening if things don't change.
Look at what you more or less just wrote and how you come off as someone coming unglued... ;D

It's fine to sit back and wait.. BUT YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD WORRY
But it isn't a life or death situation AND nobody should have a panic attack over it or or let it control their lives...
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING TO GET WORKED UP ABOUT AND WORRIED ABOUT NOT HAPPENING!

You have literally gone mad from this.  You are the one who is worried, you are having a panic attack, it's clearly controlling your life and yet you just told me not to be worried, not have a panic attack, not let it control my life. :)

I love message boards for threads like this and posts like yours.  I can tell you are trying to be calm Hey Jude, but in reality you are losing it.  It's funny to watch.  I feel for you.  But I also don't care.  It will come eventually. :angel:

This music is historically very significant.

This music means a hell of a lot to many people.

Stop being so judgmental and trying to analyze why people want music to be released. For f*cks sake. We are all fans of this band which is why we are on this board.

The cathartic nature of this band's music cannot be overstated. If this music never coming out in the history of any of our lifetimes is an awful idea to people, especially when it seems to have been very close to having come out, it stands to reason that they advocate like hell to get it out there.

Especially since insiders imply that perhaps fans knowing some of this information could be the only hope this set has for release. I don't think the insiders would have made those posts if they didn't think they could possibly be meaningful posts, hoping against hope to have the potential for something to happen positive as an outcome of them posting.

Of course one can always make the statement that there are more important things in the world to deal with, but then again, you could also say that about a family member of yours passing away... well guess what - it's more important that thousands of people passed away in Beirut, so your own personal trauma doesn't matter by comparison. It's a completely terrible analogy to try and force somebody to defend why something is meaningful to them on a personal level. From a musical and historical perspective, it would be absolutely tragic for this to not come out, especially if the reason is as trivial as every indication points this to being. Nobody needs to have a contest to describe why one tragedy is greater than another. Ridiculous.

And anybody who tries a DIY approach to helping overcome the roadblocks that are holding it back should be applauded, not mocked. Geez. That last post is what the facepalm emoji was made for.

To say "it will come eventually" is a lovely thought, but unless there's any evidence that it is factual, it is at this point just wishful thinking, and could very easily go the other way if the indications by insiders have any weight.

Also, now I feel like I have been responding to a troll and it's a sickening feeling.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 06, 2020, 07:13:38 PM
On the other hand, a sudden decision could be made today for all we know and it will be released this fall.  I'm not going to worry about it.  It's all ready to go and I believe it will come out sooner or later.

If you're happy just sitting back and making the mind-blowing prediction that "something might happen some day, whatever", that's fine.

But this attitude would not be based on what's actually going on with this set.

What people in the know, including people who have worked on this set, are trying to say is that, *if you actually care about hearing this material*, then you absolutely SHOULD worry about it right now.

Obviously, this isn't a life-or-death situation. Nobody should have a panic attack over it or let it control their lives.

But within the scope of caring about the band and having this interest in our lives, this is something to get worked up about and worried about not happening if things don't change.
Look at what you more or less just wrote and how you come off as someone coming unglued... ;D

It's fine to sit back and wait.. BUT YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD WORRY
But it isn't a life or death situation AND nobody should have a panic attack over it or or let it control their lives...
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING TO GET WORKED UP ABOUT AND WORRIED ABOUT NOT HAPPENING!

You have literally gone mad from this.  You are the one who is worried, you are having a panic attack, it's clearly controlling your life and yet you just told me not to be worried, not have a panic attack, not let it control my life. :)

I love message boards for threads like this and posts like yours.  I can tell you are trying to be calm Hey Jude, but in reality you are losing it.  It's funny to watch.  I feel for you.  But I also don't care.  It will come eventually. :angel:

You don't get it. At all.

Stop kicking people in the balls for trying to help make this stuff happen.

If you're content with your "Sounds of Summer" CD, then start a thread about that.





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on August 06, 2020, 08:07:04 PM
Don't worry Century Depraved, I am not a troll or trying to troll you.  I've been counting the years to 2020 to get Sunflower material but I am not despondent about it.  I have just as much of a right to post as anyone else.  HeyJude didn't have to reply to me but he did and his post was so contradicting it made me laugh and I couldn't help myself.  Post all you want about who you assume is holding it up, do your petitions as well.  I have been "worried" about releases by many of my favorite bands for decades and most of the time I could sound like many of you on this thread.  But I've gotten a little older and I don't see the point of worrying about it.  In fact, today I read something from a boutique label called Iconoclassic that was putting out remasters of The Guess Who in the last decade.  Apparently Sony Music pulled their license to release titles and the projects they had on deck including a box set are all canceled.  That means unless they can get a license from Universal ("who are reluctant to license"), that's the end of the line.  Cryptically Iconoclassic said "the days of 11.98/12.98 reissues are done. Many walls have been erected."  That is far more of a dead end than Feel Flows to me.   


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 06, 2020, 08:12:53 PM
I think what they’re getting at is you might not care but at least have some empathy for those who do


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on August 06, 2020, 08:26:19 PM
I also have a hard time believing it's the distributing label, the two members who teased it, the estate of the member whose song titles the set, or the member who seems to need to read from a cue card to record a 15-second "Hi, this is...hope everybody is staying safe" YouTube video. Reasoning and over 50 years of precedent hint at the holdup. Could be wrong - hopefully wrong.

way to squeeze in a jab at Brian, d*ckhead.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 06, 2020, 08:43:01 PM
I also have a hard time believing it's the distributing label, the two members who teased it, the estate of the member whose song titles the set, or the member who seems to need to read from a cue card to record a 15-second "Hi, this is...hope everybody is staying safe" YouTube video. Reasoning and over 50 years of precedent hint at the holdup. Could be wrong - hopefully wrong.

way to squeeze in a jab at Brian, d*ckhead.

It's not meant as a jab. Just reality. It's amazing he's still here, and still going on tour. Despite how shaky it can sometimes be, anytime he comes nearby, I'd buy a ticket and cheer him on. I'm just saying, with his history, struggles, approaching 80, it's obvious he doesn't use social media, make videos, comment on pretty much anything - others do it for him - so I don't see him actively being involved in any drama, or really anything to do with the business side of things. Even when he was young, sober and of sound mind, everything I've read indicates he completely ignored day to day business. That's all it meant. Prick.   


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 06, 2020, 09:43:10 PM
I think what they’re getting at is you might not care but at least have some empathy for those who do

Exactly.

If not for the dedicated acts of "passionate" fans, many great strides in the history of this band would never have happened.

The Wondermints were fanboys, and if it wasn't for that passion that Darian had, BWPS would never have been released, the 2011 reconstructed Smile wouldn't exist. There's no way that anybody can say that a lackadaisical or passive attitude across the board with every fan is actually a *good* thing. It doesn't mean everyone needs to sit around fretting about stuff, but it does mean that the extraordinary actions of some fans can sometimes make a difference.

Just like the extraordinary actions of Mark and Alan with all the recent catalog dumps. And Jon Stebbins. And countless other people who I am unintentionally omitting, who over the years have really busted their butts to make things happen. Behind the scenes, silent heroes. We all owe them an enormous debt of gratitude.

If there's even a chance of fans helping something get released, why mock it? The Wondermints example already proves it's theoretically possible and has happened before with this band. Passionate fandom eventually leading to better catalog releases, thus BBs material treated with the dignity that it deserves.

So yeah, a little empathy towards people who are more passionate about it could go a long way.  Amazing that this even needs to be said, it should be common courtesy between well-meaning fans.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 06, 2020, 10:59:53 PM
I also have a hard time believing it's the distributing label, the two members who teased it, the estate of the member whose song titles the set, or the member who seems to need to read from a cue card to record a 15-second "Hi, this is...hope everybody is staying safe" YouTube video. Reasoning and over 50 years of precedent hint at the holdup. Could be wrong - hopefully wrong.

way to squeeze in a jab at Brian, d*ckhead.

It's not meant as a jab. Just reality. It's amazing he's still here, and still going on tour. Despite how shaky it can sometimes be, anytime he comes nearby, I'd buy a ticket and cheer him on. I'm just saying, with his history, struggles, approaching 80, it's obvious he doesn't use social media, make videos, comment on pretty much anything - others do it for him - so I don't see him actively being involved in any drama, or really anything to do with the business side of things. Even when he was young, sober and of sound mind, everything I've read indicates he completely ignored day to day business. That's all it meant. Prick.   

In all fairness, the original post didn't come off too nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 07, 2020, 02:41:11 AM
Post all you want about who you assume is holding it up, do your petitions as well.  I have been "worried" about releases by many of my favorite bands for decades and most of the time I could sound like many of you on this thread.  But I've gotten a little older and I don't see the point of worrying about it. 

My reasons for "worrying" about it (highlighted in yellow):

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.

Ram4,

This thing nearly "died on the vine" twice. Stebbins says "it doesn't look great right now".

So while we could just sit on our hands and hope for the best, some fans want to be vocal in the hopes that their voices will be heard by whoever is holding this set up. So laugh all you want at people who have supposedly "literally gone mad" for spending probably 30 minutes a day writing on a Beach Boys message board. But perhaps you could understand that HeyJude is passionate about this release because people who he has a lot of respect for shared their worry about the future of this set.

You mentioned that you've "gotten a little older" and thus you "don't see the point of worrying about it." - since you've already had that revelation, perhaps when you get even older you'll realize the pointlessness of wasting your time worrying and posting about how other people post on fan-forums.

And I'll end by quoting Century Deprived, as he perfectly put into words what I and others have been thinking:

If not for the dedicated acts of "passionate" fans, many great strides in the history of this band would never have happened.

The Wondermints were fanboys, and if it wasn't for that passion that Darian had, BWPS would never have been released, the 2011 reconstructed Smile wouldn't exist. There's no way that anybody can say that a lackadaisical or passive attitude across the board with every fan is actually a *good* thing. It doesn't mean everyone needs to sit around fretting about stuff, but it does mean that the extraordinary actions of some fans can sometimes make a difference.

Just like the extraordinary actions of Mark and Alan with all the recent catalog dumps. And Jon Stebbins. And countless other people who I am unintentionally omitting, who over the years have really busted their butts to make things happen. Behind the scenes, silent heroes. We all owe them an enormous debt of gratitude.

If there's even a chance of fans helping something get released, why mock it? The Wondermints example already proves it's theoretically possible and has happened before with this band. Passionate fandom eventually leading to better catalog releases, thus BBs material treated with the dignity that it deserves.

So yeah, a little empathy towards people who are more passionate about it could go a long way.  Amazing that this even needs to be said, it should be common courtesy between well-meaning fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 07, 2020, 06:41:54 AM
Maybe a stupid question. What do we think will be included in the box set that hasn't previously been officially released? What are people most excited about?

No expectations.  I'll welcome whatever odd and/or wonderful "lost" tracks they have to offer.  The Beach Boys are a treasure trove of fascinating unreleased recordings.  I just want this thing to be released. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SydBarrett on August 07, 2020, 11:19:09 AM
Real talk, some of you people need to learn that if they release it on digital only, it's not that big of a deal


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Vale on August 07, 2020, 11:29:34 AM
Digital or box set... but I need this, I really need it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 07, 2020, 11:38:33 AM
Real talk, some of you people need to learn that if they release it on digital only, it's not that big of a deal

True, if it comes with the artwork and has liner notes in PDF form and such


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 07, 2020, 11:56:38 AM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SydBarrett on August 07, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.

Maybe being too demanding isn't the solution here


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 07, 2020, 01:10:33 PM
I dunno, if someone involved with the set is basically pleading with us to make our voices heard, I don't think it's too demanding. Now, if it was just cancelled/shelved without that, it'd be different


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 07, 2020, 01:18:48 PM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.

Maybe being too demanding isn't the solution here

I don't think it's demanding when fans are telling the corporation they'd buy their product, and would do so enthusiastically. That's what I really cannot understand, most companies spend most of their energy and resources trying to convince people to buy their products, and here is a case where from most indications someone either in the band or within BRI as a corporation is stonewalling the release of this product. And there's not even a word uttered as to even a release date.

Stripping away that this is the Beach Boys for a second, does that make any sense in terms of Business 101, supply and demand?

And also, the set is completed and sitting on a shelf. It's not like a fantasy project fans are saying they'd like to see...this is a product which is 2+ years in the making, completed, and is being held back.

Ridiculous to not even hear a word about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 07, 2020, 01:56:52 PM
Real talk, some of you people need to learn that if they release it on digital only, it's not that big of a deal

This is unfortunately not the mic-drop comment you may think it is.

This whole thing is NOT about simply salvaging a *physical* release of the set.

There are already like a dozen posts that explain IN DETAIL why we're not going to necessarily get anywhere near *all* of the material if they are forced to barf out a last-minute digital drop. The "delayed but not technically canceled" aspect of this is both one of the problems (in that a result might be a small digital drop of only the material required to protect copyrights), but also one of the reasons we're hear advocating for it, because it's still viable.

Sure, a nice lavish boxed set would be a nice thing, worthy of the material and the band. It would be what fans and the band deserve. But it's really not the issue holding things up.

To be more explicitly clear (for the millionth time), the current delays ARE NOT due to issues with the cost of doing a physical boxed set. Indeed, several have already specifically mentioned that THE LABEL WANTS THIS OUT.

The current issues holding things up have NOTHING to do with physical vs. digital release.

I'm trying to not to be too crusty about all of this, but I don't know if some of these people bursting into the conversation for the first time trying to minimize the situation are just *not* reading all of the previous posts in the thread, or are choosing to ignore them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 07, 2020, 02:00:31 PM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.

Maybe being too demanding isn't the solution here

What demands? All that's being asked is for fans to voice that they want the set, and for the band to listen and release it. Release a *finished, ready to go* boxed set.

Do you really think someone working on the set would post about the situation because what's needed is for all of us to sit on our hands and just wait and hope?

What kind of fanbase do the BBs have? How does the discussion turn from advocating for the band to release a finished product we all want, to deriding fans for even wanting it or asking for it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 07, 2020, 02:45:04 PM
I guess the dysfunction of The Beach Boys is reflected in the dysfunction of their fans...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 07, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
I guess the dysfunction of The Beach Boys is reflected in the dysfunction of their fans...

Most definitely. At the end of the day, though, we all need to remember that we all are indeed *fans*


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 07, 2020, 03:49:05 PM
It's actually really incredible how diverse The Beach Boys were/are - from brothers, cousins, friends, to a future country star filling in Brian's shoes for a while, African Americans joining the band. And any group that has such a diverse set of people is inevitably going to have dysfunction.

And you're right, it is mirrored well in the fanbase. However at the end of the day the band comes together for the music, as do the fans. The music is the glue that keeps holding us all together. There are huge rifts in the band, huge rifts in the fanbase, but all of us (from Mike Love to OSD) get lost in the harmonies of 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' or 'Good Vibrations' and it always puts a smile on our faces.

I'm really hoping that whatever problem is holding up this set is resolved. 2020 has been such a freaking awful year...the pandemic, the economic downturn, the racial tension, that horrific bomb that went off in Beirut the other day. Please bring a ray of much needed sunlight into this darkened year...

What group would be better than The Beach Boys to release a major set this year? Think about all the people these guys have worked with: from EDM artists to a peace prize winning folk artist, from rap artists to a slew of country artists. This band is so diverse, so welcoming, their music is healing (as was said earlier) and it brings warmth to the cold. What a perfect group to help bring some happiness to a world that desperately needs some right now.

While there is so much human dysfunction in the band, the one thing these guys were able to do stunningly well is come together to create heavenly sounds out purely out of voices and some instruments. They used their creative power to come up with touching lyrics, complex chords, and gorgeous melodies. They overcame their differences to put out release after release, and hopefully they can do it once again in 2020. There are some people out there who could probably use a dose of this incredible music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 07, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 07, 2020, 03:57:58 PM
Post all you want about who you assume is holding it up, do your petitions as well.  I have been "worried" about releases by many of my favorite bands for decades and most of the time I could sound like many of you on this thread.  But I've gotten a little older and I don't see the point of worrying about it.

My reasons for "worrying" about it (highlighted in yellow):

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.

Ram4,

This thing nearly "died on the vine" twice. Stebbins says "it doesn't look great right now".

So while we could just sit on our hands and hope for the best, some fans want to be vocal in the hopes that their voices will be heard by whoever is holding this set up. So laugh all you want at people who have supposedly "literally gone mad" for spending probably 30 minutes a day writing on a Beach Boys message board. But perhaps you could understand that HeyJude is passionate about this release because people who he has a lot of respect for shared their worry about the future of this set.

You mentioned that you've "gotten a little older" and thus you "don't see the point of worrying about it." - since you've already had that revelation, perhaps when you get even older you'll realize the pointlessness of wasting your time worrying and posting about how other people post on fan-forums.

And I'll end by quoting Century Deprived, as he perfectly put into words what I and others have been thinking:

If not for the dedicated acts of "passionate" fans, many great strides in the history of this band would never have happened.

The Wondermints were fanboys, and if it wasn't for that passion that Darian had, BWPS would never have been released, the 2011 reconstructed Smile wouldn't exist. There's no way that anybody can say that a lackadaisical or passive attitude across the board with every fan is actually a *good* thing. It doesn't mean everyone needs to sit around fretting about stuff, but it does mean that the extraordinary actions of some fans can sometimes make a difference.

Just like the extraordinary actions of Mark and Alan with all the recent catalog dumps. And Jon Stebbins. And countless other people who I am unintentionally omitting, who over the years have really busted their butts to make things happen. Behind the scenes, silent heroes. We all owe them an enormous debt of gratitude.

If there's even a chance of fans helping something get released, why mock it? The Wondermints example already proves it's theoretically possible and has happened before with this band. Passionate fandom eventually leading to better catalog releases, thus BBs material treated with the dignity that it deserves.

So yeah, a little empathy towards people who are more passionate about it could go a long way.  Amazing that this even needs to be said, it should be common courtesy between well-meaning fans.

Is it really a matter of empathy?  In all fairness Ram4's initial comment was pretty benign, yet several folks jumped all over him for taking a casual approach to it.  A tad bit ridiculous honestly.  Pretty sure we all want this thing to get a release and we'd all be disappointed if it doesn't happen.  That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 07, 2020, 04:03:42 PM
An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 07, 2020, 04:22:01 PM
Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 07, 2020, 04:36:22 PM
Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.

Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

I've read both Howie and Jon's comments and believe them at face value that there are in-house problems that may put this project in jeopardy.  That said, I'm not interested in filling the blanks with assumptions and speculation even if it seems obviously true.  This project was never even officially announced in the first place and that leaves a lot of room for ambiguity over what is actually going on.  I just hope that not only does it see a release, but does so in the way that it was intended to be released.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 07, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

People who care have been reading it and also paying attention to the real deal in terms of information and fact. Look at the view count on this topic.

Based on previous experiences, though, who knows what kind of garbage is being spread around other fan communities. And again from previous experiences, some will either have the facts laid out in front of them and choose to either ignore them or not accept them, or will believe less than impeccable sources spreading false info or gossip via whatever private messaging or instant messenger platform is available and hiding behind that.

The things people choose to believe over the facts never ceases to amaze me, especially with this band and elements of the fan base.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 07, 2020, 04:56:21 PM
The bottom line is that the release of the greatest material in this band's catalog tends to unfortunately be a very fragile thing, which historically teeters on not being released at all. Because that is a simple fact, not something that is made up, but an actual matter of historical record, I don't see how anyone can say it's alarmist to worry that this stuff may not come out at all.

Look what happened with smile in 1966, look what happened with all the other times that music from smile was going to be released and wasn't. Again and again it goes back to the Jack Rieley quote. It's weird in a manner that a few other bands can touch the weirdness factor of. But dammit we are fans of this band and we love the music and will tolerate the weirdness as long as the music comes out.

This box is undoubtedly the cream of the crop, some of the best of the band has to offer in terms of unreleased material.  Due to many political factors, and usually elements of the same type of issue, the very best that this band has to offer tends to repeatedly be in jeopardy, in a way that boggles the mind. The fact that this material seems to continue that tradition perhaps I shouldn't be surprising, but it should be alarming nonetheless.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 07, 2020, 05:01:57 PM
The bottom line is that the release of the greatest material in this band's catalog tends to unfortunately be a very fragile thing, which historically teeters on not being released at all. Because that is a simple fact, not something that is made up, but an actual matter of historical record, I don't see how anyone can say it's alarmist to worry that this stuff may not come out at all.

Look what happened with smile in 1966, look what happened with all the other times that music from smile was going to be released and wasn't. Again and again it goes back to the Jack Rieley quote. It's weird in a manner that a few other bands can touch the weirdness factor of. But dammit we are fans of this band and we love the music and will tolerate the weirdness as long as the music comes out.

This box is undoubtedly the cream of the crop, some of the best of the band has to offer in terms of unreleased material.  Due to many political factors, and usually elements of the same type of issue, the very best that this band has to offer tends to repeatedly be in jeopardy, in a way that boggles the mind. The fact that this material seems to continue that tradition perhaps I shouldn't be surprising, but it should be alarming nonetheless.


Basically agreed, however I would point out that a lot of unreleased material has seen the light of day especially with albums such as Endless Harmony, Hawthorne, CA the four big box sets as well as some of the digital stuff they've put out in the last few years.  Of course it's reasonable to be concerned over this project and it would be surely disappointing if it doesn't come out, but it's also reasonable to hold some faith that this release will ultimately find its way to the fans. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 07, 2020, 05:39:18 PM
Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.

Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

I've read both Howie and Jon's comments and believe them at face value that there are in-house problems that may put this project in jeopardy.  That said, I'm not interested in filling the blanks with assumptions and speculation even if it seems obviously true.  This project was never even officially announced in the first place and that leaves a lot of room for ambiguity over what is actually going on.  I just hope that not only does it see a release, but does so in the way that it was intended to be released.  

The status of the project is it’s not scheduled for release. Are you looking for words like cancelled, postponed, etc? I don’t think that matters much because if it’s not scheduled for release within the next 1-2 months, it will not be released - at least not in its current form.

Who is holding it up? The Beach Boys are holding it up. Probably just one member, possibly two.

Why is there a holdup? Because The Beach Boys are not signing off on the set. Again, that has been clarified.

Why does it matter if the word “cancelled” is used? The result is the same. If they don’t get it together very soon - and by all accounts that is not happening - there is no Feel Flows. There might be some replacement or some plans to change things around, but that will also inevitably come with compromises that change what it is.

Main point: there is really no mystery here, other than the exact details of why members of the group don’t want this released, which members they are, and what might happen next to potentially change things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 07, 2020, 07:07:15 PM
Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 07, 2020, 08:15:18 PM
Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.

Howie laid out the facts but did not elaborate.
Jon filled in the blanks and explicitly called out some things because people here still seemed to be scratching their heads about what was said in no uncertain terms.
Some people are still scratching their heads, which I don’t get at all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 07, 2020, 11:04:08 PM
I was really excited by Howie's comment when he posted it. It took Stebbins' comment to alert me to the subtext of it, which I can now see very clearly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 08, 2020, 12:29:08 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 08, 2020, 01:07:49 AM
On July 13th Howie acknowledged that the set was being held up. So that right there confirmed to us that something was indeed wrong (and given that Bruce said this thing was supposed to come out in February 2020 should’ve already rang some alarm bells).

On July 27th Howie said “I wish you all had it in your ears.” - couple that with the July 13th news and it’s not looking good. I’m pretty sure a lot of this flew over my head as well.

Then July 29th he spelled it out as best he could without jeopardizing himself. Then Jon posted and made things very clear.

@DonnyL, thanks for your posts - said everything perfectly I was failing to convey.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 08, 2020, 02:12:42 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 08, 2020, 02:46:03 AM
I’m really not trying to be picky when I say this, so I hope I don’t come across that way, but it was nearly a month (not 10 days) that Howie went from saying “upcoming” and “Cannot wait” (June 19) to acknowledging that the boxset was being held up (July 13). And it was about a month and a half from the time he made the “upcoming” comment to the point when he said this set was currently not scheduled for release (July 29). And not that the duration of time matters much, but a month (or a month and a half) is a good chunk of time for either something to fall apart or give one the realization that the problems you thought would be solved are not being solved. Thus I don’t think the change was as abrupt as you’re thinking. Again, I don’t think the duration of time matters much but I wanted to clear that up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 08, 2020, 03:05:01 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 08, 2020, 03:19:05 AM
Well both months are four letters and start with “J”’ so it’s understandable.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on August 08, 2020, 06:32:01 AM
African Americans joining the band.

*Africans


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 08, 2020, 07:43:16 AM
African Americans joining the band.

*Africans

Jeesh, thanks. As I was writing it I even consciously thought about them coming from South Africa.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 09, 2020, 10:04:40 PM
One question. Come December 31st, if recordings previously unreleased have not been released by the stroke of midnight, that will fall into public domain in the EU. There will be some sort of copyright extension required whether the band members want it or not, correct?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 10, 2020, 08:25:57 AM
One question. Come December 31st, if recordings previously unreleased have not been released by the stroke of midnight, that will fall into public domain in the EU. There will be some sort of copyright extension required whether the band members want it or not, correct?

I posted an answer to this several times in previous posts/pages.

The potential nature of a potential partial digital dump of material at the end of the year that is caused by the full set's delay is a big part of why we're saying we need to advocate for releasing this set now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 10, 2020, 08:42:56 AM
Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.

Jon wouldn't be speaking to any of this unless he knew enough to speak on it from a knowledgeable point of view.

For that matter, for what it's worth since a few people seem to be questioning Jon Stebbins, maybe even doubting Howie Edelson or just choosing to ignore what he wrote, and not even mentioning the thousand posts I've made in this thread, I can speak for myself that the gazillion things *I've* posted in this thread are not based simply on what has been posted on this thread by insiders.

In this particular instance, and I'm not sure why I need to say this so bluntly, I'm working with other specific information from insiders that hasn't been posted here.

If we're going to have some tough/straight talk here, for all the sarcastic comments over the years about "Beach Boys fans being as dysfunctional as the band" (which I think we all agree is sometimes true, and probably a result both of the band's fault and our own faults), I have to say that the myriad (even if minority) of Beach Boys fans who still either can't understand or refuse to acknowledge the obvious subtext of what insiders and those who have spoken to insiders are saying about this set, this is part of the reason BB fans can't have nice things.

I get it, some fans are more seasoned and informed about the band's history and the backroom politics, and some are more familiar with the record industry, etc. Some folks are more cynical or jaded than others. But I've rarely seen a fan base where, for whatever reason, whether it be just personality tics, or some weird personal ethos/politics/train of thought, there is a small but noticeable subset of fans who *absolutely refuse* to acknowledge very, very obvious things about this band and about events surrounding this band. It's like the fans who think when Foskett jumped from Brian to Mike's band in 2014 that *zero* politics were at play and it was just a normal workplace change. Or the fans that think the 2012 reunion ended because of an e-mail Melinda wrote. If one wants to be completely optimistic to the point of being oblivious to this degree, that is obviously their right. But then it becomes problematic when you burst into a discussion (setting aside what appears to be a case of some folks simply not reading the full thread and asserting or asking things that have been answered numerous times) with this level of incredulity.

If you read the posts from Howie and Jon (and others including myself), and your reaction is *still* to just sit back and fold your arms and say "Well, I dunno. Maybe there's something going on, but maybe everything is fine and going according to plan. Why are people so worked up and worried?", then that's going to be met with reactions like what Jon mentioned, pointing out why it seems nuts that some fans are still stumbling around confused and asserting 27 optimistic scenarios that ignore common sense, ignore this band's history, and ignore the specific things people who *worked on this set* are saying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 10, 2020, 08:51:14 AM
Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

What is the current status of the project? We absolutely know, and it's been stated numerous times. It has been completed (compiled, mixed, mastered, and artwork/packaging prepped). It is currently not on the release schedule. Other than the semantics of "postponed vs. canceled", this all seems pretty clear. It's a project that's clearly in jeopardy. If it was canceled, nobody would be trying to rally support for a dead project. If it was going according to normal plan, nobody would be rallying fans/support.

Who is holding up the potential release? This has not been disclosed. And it doesn't matter. I've said ten thousand times now that all band members and associates (especially band members) should be told this set should be released. That's the easiest thing to do.

What are the contentions as to why there is a hold up? This is kind of the same question as the previous. The specifics haven't been disclosed. You've been told what *aren't* the reasons (it's not COVID, it's not packaging, it's not the content of the set). As I've also said many times, the reasons for the hold up are things we can't change. Rather than making anybody essentially *disbelieve* their own reason for stalling the set, the only course right now is to advocate for the set and make it so that *outweighs* those other reasons we can't change.

Is this canceled, or is there a push to release it? This has also clearly been answered. It's not officially canceled (again, nobody would be trying to get an actual dead project released). And there IS a push to release it. That push is THIS THREAD, and fans in general talking about it and advocating.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 10, 2020, 09:56:45 AM
To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 10, 2020, 12:09:25 PM
To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???

Yes, and we can also let them know right here on this board that we want it. That's a big part too. More discussion of how much we want the set, and perhaps also pointing out the foolhardy proposition of *not* releasing the set, and then discussing why this set would be so amazing.

No histrionics, no harassment, no end of the world. Just passionate advocating.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 10, 2020, 01:27:36 PM
I really want this box set and signed the change.org petition.  Since the copyright extensions started, I have been looking forward to this year to start getting stuff from the 70s, I am a completist and want everything.  To me the early 1970s will likely show each band member making great music.  In my opinion, one of Mike's best compositions is the original Big Sur, would love to have that in a pristine form.  Dennis was really shining during the early 70s and would love more of that.  Brian was more active than the standard narrative shows, so more Brian productions or demos would be awesome.  Carl was really starting to compose some great songs in the early 1970s.  Al and Bruce also had good compositions as well as the introduction of Ricky and Blondie.

I think this set will show that each member had great contributions and will heighten the legacy of the Beach Boys.  I will be buying multiple copies to give some as gifts (you don't have to wait until Christmas, I will give the gifts now).  Please release this, I am 100% confident it is awesome and will showcase everyone's abilities.  People are still stuck at home, and getting some new music to dive into would be awesome.

To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???

Yes, and we can also let them know right here on this board that we want it. That's a big part too. More discussion of how much we want the set, and perhaps also pointing out the foolhardy proposition of *not* releasing the set, and then discussing why this set would be so amazing.

No histrionics, no harassment, no end of the world. Just passionate advocating.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 10, 2020, 01:49:44 PM
I really want this box set and signed the change.org petition.  Since the copyright extensions started, I have been looking forward to this year to start getting stuff from the 70s, I am a completist and want everything.  To me the early 1970s will likely show each band member making great music.  In my opinion, one of Mike's best compositions is the original Big Sur, would love to have that in a pristine form.  Dennis was really shining during the early 70s and would love more of that.  Brian was more active than the standard narrative shows, so more Brian productions or demos would be awesome.  Carl was really starting to compose some great songs in the early 1970s.  Al and Bruce also had good compositions as well as the introduction of Ricky and Blondie.

I think this set will show that each member had great contributions and will heighten the legacy of the Beach Boys.  I will be buying multiple copies to give some as gifts (you don't have to wait until Christmas, I will give the gifts now).  Please release this, I am 100% confident it is awesome and will showcase everyone's abilities.  People are still stuck at home, and getting some new music to dive into would be awesome.

To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???

Yes, and we can also let them know right here on this board that we want it. That's a big part too. More discussion of how much we want the set, and perhaps also pointing out the foolhardy proposition of *not* releasing the set, and then discussing why this set would be so amazing.

No histrionics, no harassment, no end of the world. Just passionate advocating.


I will buy multiple copies to give as gifts also.

I legit can't wait to give the band and the record label my hard-earned dollars. This music is pure joy and is worth every penny.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Michael Edwards Love on August 10, 2020, 02:53:26 PM
Then I'll come out of lurking to say that I signed the petition and that I'll buy it. It would be some good news in a year of much bad.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on August 10, 2020, 04:01:13 PM
Then I'll come out of lurking to say that I signed the petition and that I'll buy it. It would be some good news in a year of much bad.

^Ditto this. I shared the petition to my social media pages and also got several other Beach Boys fans I know to sign it. This box set needs to be released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 10, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
FREE THE FLOW!!!!

 :police: :3d :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 10, 2020, 07:20:50 PM
Would love to hear a stereo mix of Sound of Free.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: buddhahat on August 11, 2020, 12:44:24 AM
 http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)

I scanned back a few pages and couldn’t see the petition link so thought it might be useful to repost. Let’s hope this gets to see the light at some point soon!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 11, 2020, 01:20:29 AM
Would love to hear a stereo mix of Sound of Free.

From what I've heard, the multi tracks for the final version of Sound of Free aren't in the vaults.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 11, 2020, 05:44:16 AM
Would love to hear a stereo mix of Sound of Free.

From what I've heard, the multi tracks for the final version of Sound of Free aren't in the vaults.

I agree that would be awesome, but I heard the same thing about the multi tracks.  I think that is why the MIC Sound of Free is a needle drop.  Great lyrics by Mike on that one!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aingevt on August 11, 2020, 05:55:57 AM
I look forward to these releases every year. When all we got last year was a couple songs I knew that meant something truly amazing was being prepared. I check this site every day with heavy anticipation of news of its release. I signed the petition and am waiting and hoping for the chance to throw my money at this band and their amazing music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 11, 2020, 07:52:17 AM
Would love to hear a stereo mix of Sound of Free.

From what I've heard, the multi tracks for the final version of Sound of Free aren't in the vaults.

I agree that would be awesome, but I heard the same thing about the multi tracks.  I think that is why the MIC Sound of Free is a needle drop.  Great lyrics by Mike on that one!

The version of "Sound of Free" on that "Brother Proposed Bonus Tracks" comp disc is also a needledrop. So it would seem between 2000 and 2013 they didn't find any multis.

The newest audio extraction software is pretty remarkable; they could probably pull of a decent stereo mix of the song that way. That's not super high on my list of needs, but the type of extraction that can be done now is much more impressive than say 20 years ago when the first (and still pretty decent) "stereo remixes" of stuff like "Good Vibrations" were being done by fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on August 11, 2020, 07:58:22 AM
No one knows how much I desire this set than my wife, and I honestly think she'll want it to be released just to keep me quiet :lol

In all seriousness though, a collection of this material finally released to the world would truly make so many people's 2020 far better than it has been. I'm lucky that I haven't hit too hard, but this set would still make all the difference. The prospect of a large book to go along with this set, with many of the wonderful photos from this era inside, would be a huge icing on the cake, and I'm sure if this gets a physical release, that would be a no brainer.

My money is merely waiting BRI. Show me the payment link and there will be no hesitation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Vale on August 11, 2020, 09:20:17 AM
No one knows how much I desire this set than my wife, and I honestly think she'll want it to be released just to keep me quiet :lol

In all seriousness though, a collection of this material finally released to the world would truly make so many people's 2020 far better than it has been. I'm lucky that I haven't hit too hard, but this set would still make all the difference. The prospect of a large book to go along with this set, with many of the wonderful photos from this era inside, would be a huge icing on the cake, and I'm sure if this gets a physical release, that would be a no brainer.

My money is merely waiting BRI. Show me the payment link and there will be no hesitation.

100% agree and my wife too! :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 11, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
I would hope that the fact that this box that will bring so much joy to people during an utterly dreadful and largely joyless time in human history would be enough to tip the scales in our favor. No issue that is holding up this set is impossible to overcome.

I just wonder how much a billionaire would have to throw at the powers that be to get them to release it. If Bill Gates or Elon musk were superfans of his band, how big a check would they have to cut in order to cause the holdup to simply vanish?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 11, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
I would hope that the fact that this box that will bring so much joy to people during an utterly dreadful and largely joyless time in human history would be enough to tip the scales in our favor.

I suspect the man who, let's face it, is almost certainly to blame for this believes he's already done his bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8OVy33V_OI


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 11, 2020, 11:51:28 AM
Even worse... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jvR8j94gHws&time_continue=1&feature=emb_title


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on August 11, 2020, 12:08:20 PM
Even worse... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jvR8j94gHws&time_continue=1&feature=emb_title
This Clown School dropout has incredibly well tuned his skills at making a complete fool of himself with slop like this. And on top of it all has a video of himself behind him. His voice sounds like he's got a clam stuck in his throat and I would think Stamos would know better than to associate himself with the most hated clown the world of music has ever witnessed.  >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SydBarrett on August 11, 2020, 12:57:13 PM
Here we go again


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 11, 2020, 04:17:21 PM
http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)

I scanned back a few pages and couldn’t see the petition link so thought it might be useful to repost. Let’s hope this gets to see the light at some point soon!

The petition needs roughly 40 more votes to reach its goal, how about a push to make it happen?

I'd like to see it reach the goal not just to let the band members, BRI, and the label know how many fans are pledged to buying a *deluxe box set* that is completed and currently held up, but also to show those who are calling this petition pointless, a waste of time, etc how invested real fans of this band are...and how the lectures and finger-wagging at "entitled" fans are the really pointless, unnecessary, and unwelcome activities.

Here's the link again, share it with other entitled fans who do pointless things (sarcasm...) and let the band and all involved know how many are holding the cash and cards waiting to buy this music.

 http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on August 11, 2020, 06:36:05 PM
I added my name to the petition. There are a multitude of die hards who will pay cold, hard cash for this set. Get it out. Now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 11, 2020, 07:00:54 PM
http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)

I scanned back a few pages and couldn’t see the petition link so thought it might be useful to repost. Let’s hope this gets to see the light at some point soon!

The petition needs roughly 40 more votes to reach its goal, how about a push to make it happen?

I'd like to see it reach the goal not just to let the band members, BRI, and the label know how many fans are pledged to buying a *deluxe box set* that is completed and currently held up, but also to show those who are calling this petition pointless, a waste of time, etc how invested real fans of this band are...and how the lectures and finger-wagging at "entitled" fans are the really pointless, unnecessary, and unwelcome activities.

Here's the link again, share it with other entitled fans who do pointless things (sarcasm...) and let the band and all involved know how many are holding the cash and cards waiting to buy this music.

 http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)

I sent it out to the old PSML email list, and Hughes from France forwarded it to a France user group.  18 more signatures to reach 500.  Although, I believe once it hits 500 it will have a new goal.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 11, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
Guys and gals, I have to admit I've resigned myself to the fact that we aren't getting Feel Flows. Now while I'm bummed, I'm not desperately sad like I would've been if BWPS or The SMiLE Sessions or the like had been scrapped. I'm just accepting it though. I'm glad we've gotten so much vault material these last few years and I always had a sneaking suspicion something would get screwed up and here it is.

The fact that a guy intimately involved with the set came on here to basically rally the troops and inform of us this being in limbo, that probably means things don't look very good. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Mr. Edelson may be putting his butt on the line in a way as far as working with The Beach Boys (or possibly other groups who are paying attention) to tell us this. And I don't think he woulda done this is if things didn't look so bleak. If there was a minor issue that looked like it would be fixable within a bit, I personally don't think he woulda made mention on our board here. So while I'm not saying to give up, I think things are worse on this front than I originally did, having time to process the info.

I agree with those of you are trying to make things happen, and indeed I both signed the petition and have posted positive comments on Mike Love's Facebook page about getting this thing out there. But beyond that, I'm just not sure what we can do. So as I basically said earlier, I'm resigning myself to the fact that we ain't seeing this thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 12, 2020, 08:46:34 AM
I just added my sig to the petition. I also posted it on my Facebook page, I have a lot of people as friends who I know like the band, and would by the set.

Here's hoping logical heads prevail.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 12, 2020, 08:52:29 AM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 12, 2020, 09:02:24 AM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



I think the goal is incremental.  When I first looked at it the initial goal was 250, then it moved to 500, now it is 1000.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 12, 2020, 09:13:56 AM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



I think the goal is incremental.  When I first looked at it the initial goal was 250, then it moved to 500, now it is 1000.

That's true, it's incremental - 500 was the goal as of yesterday and it was met, so now it increases.

500 signatures and counting from fans supporting a deluxe box set is a pretty strong message being sent, I'd think.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 12, 2020, 09:20:59 AM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



I think the goal is incremental.  When I first looked at it the initial goal was 250, then it moved to 500, now it is 1000.

That's true, it's incremental - 500 was the goal as of yesterday and it was met, so now it increases.

500 signatures and counting from fans supporting a deluxe box set is a pretty strong message being sent, I'd think.

I agree, especially since it has only been talked about on message boards, no widespread coverage of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 12, 2020, 10:14:16 AM
*cough* "Feels flow" protest signs at M&B shows?.....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 12, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
*cough* "Feels flow" protest signs at M&B shows?.....

Sure...but let's be artful about it--

FREE THE FLOW!!!!

50 of these babies at the M&B shows ought to get the coins clicking in a certain someone's change purse...  :3d


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on August 12, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



I think the goal is incremental.  When I first looked at it the initial goal was 250, then it moved to 500, now it is 1000.

That's true, it's incremental - 500 was the goal as of yesterday and it was met, so now it increases.

500 signatures and counting from fans supporting a deluxe box set is a pretty strong message being sent, I'd think.

Earlier in the year, there was a petition vowing to boycott Beach Boys performances and releases, thst had far more signatures.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 12, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
The petition reached its initial goal of 500 signatures overnight.

Pointless exercise or not, at least fans who are now aware of the situation have an opportunity to voice their support for releasing this set.

It makes me wonder why some elements of the Beach Boys fan community are against this petition, and also seem to be upset at fans who are speaking up and saying they'd like to see it released.

Hmmm.

Anyway, the petition reached its initial 500 signature goal, now the results can be seen by those most closely involved.

Well done.  :)



I think the goal is incremental.  When I first looked at it the initial goal was 250, then it moved to 500, now it is 1000.

That's true, it's incremental - 500 was the goal as of yesterday and it was met, so now it increases.

500 signatures and counting from fans supporting a deluxe box set is a pretty strong message being sent, I'd think.

Earlier in the year, there was a petition vowing to boycott Beach Boys performances and releases, thst had far more signatures.

That petition started far outside Beach Boys fan circles, hit the international media, and went viral with both political and moral overtones. No comparison in origin, scope, or intent to this one with fans petitioning the release of a box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rich E P on August 13, 2020, 09:21:47 AM
I signed the petition.  I love The Beach Boys.  The sound of those boys around a microphone singing together is my very favourite sound on earth.  It truly is. 

I am certain that this Feel Flows set contains more moments that the world needs right now.  Harmony of the purest kind.  Carl Wilson said, "The music does have a spiritual a spiritual quality to it.  Just an indescribable thing it did to the environment."  I agree.  The world could really use more of these moments.  I urge those with any sway to help make this wonderful and often criminally over-looked period of the boys history help heal, educate and bring more recognition to a band that deserves it.  My thanks to Mark Linett and Alan Boyd who have worked very hard for many years to protect and grow the legacy of The Beach Boys.  Stay safe folks and Add Some Music To Your Day!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 13, 2020, 11:13:34 AM
The "other" board's legendary historian is blaming "us" for the box set fiasco. ::) Kinda like the wack-ass David Beard article that blamed the fans for the trophy hunting gig...

Hell, they singled out OSD for stating his opinions on M&B as a reason BBs fans don't deserve this set.


P.S- There are potshots at GF2002...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 13, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
Yeah, Melinda (oops! Cat's out of the bag on that!), one would think he'd want to stay far away from that Alan Boyd "appalling" comment. For any audience from the EH forum, here is the reply that Guitarfool gave to Alan regarding why he didn't buy that set:

Quote
When the tracks are on the Beach Boys official YouTube channel, how is it appalling to listen there?

What's appalling is to see a person who exhibited bad behavior, in some cases the words and comments bordering on slanderous and extending from trashing other fans to gossiping about and slandering band members and families, getting acknowledged. If someone insults, lies about, or in any other way wrongs people I consider friends, they're off the radar. And I don't support their future endeavors where their name is attached.

Sorry if that's offensive, but maybe a lot of people still don't know what went on and how dirty it got. Maybe I'm old fashioned but words matter and actions have consequences. In this case, that credit put a stain on an otherwise terrific project.

The part in yellow is emphasized by me. The obvious stupidity is that "someone" (your guess is probably correct lol) is casting stones at Guitarfool for listening to YouTube tracks provided BY THE BAND whilst completely ignoring that they themselves spread vile gossip about Brian Wilson's wife behind the scenes (which is why Guitarfool chose not to buy that specific set in the first place). So listening to tracks that make the band money on YouTube versus sharing the ridiculous idea that Melinda only adopted her kids for tax reasons (and that's one of the less colorful pieces of gossip)...this is a perfect example of the mindset of many of the posters over there, which is why so many of us will never sign up there. I think what's most offensive is that "someone" thinks so little of their fellow poster's intelligence that they'd be so brazen to throw shade at others for supposedly disrespecting the band (for listening to YouTube tracks? haha) given their history of actually disrespecting Brian Wilson's own family (thus obviously disrespecting Brian himself).

And sincere apologies to my fellow SS posters for bringing this up here. As I will never have an account at the "Endless Harmony" forum (probably the most ironic name they could've come up with) I'm limited to how I can reply to the absurd posts made there...and when I see complete distortion of the facts, and people trying to purposefully confuse the facts I feel I have to respond somehow. And given that these facts have never been argued against (and likely never will) hopefully this will be the last of it.

Wanted to add this in:

Hell, they singled out OSD for stating his opinions on M&B as a reason BBs fans don't deserve this set.

So if blunt fan opinions are the basis of being "ashamed" for being a part of the fandom, what feelings do these people get when Mike Love himself says that some of Brian's music "sounds like sh*t"? People are gonna have opinions, and opinions hurt less than straight up lies that can damage someone's reputation. But over there, in their odd version of reality, Mike Love being criticized for his vocals is more disruptive to the fandom than spreading complete horseshit about Melinda Wilson. Gotta love it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 13, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
Folks,

I don’t think we’re getting Feel Flows. Mike Love interview from today - he is asked about archival releases, and basically says he’s looking toward the 60th anniversary and the “special” things they might be doing for that - including some kind of talk about collaborations with other artists:

https://youtu.be/OWz7Stun-KI

(forward to around 9:00)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 13, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
Transcript of the interview segment:

Darren Paltrowitz:
"The last time I interviewed you was two to three years ago, and during that interview you got a phone call from Jeffrey Foskett who had just discovered some kind of an archival release that you were thinking of putting out, and one thing that we haven't discussed is how many great archival releases from you and from The Beach Boys in the last three or four years. Is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

Mike Love:
"Well I don't know how much there is in the vault, but I'd, I'll tell you this, we're coming up on probably the 60th anniversary of the group in another year or so, and that warrants something special that's for sure, and so, um, I've got some ideas on that but we're too early to talk about it. But um, uh, I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and and as you say archival but also new renditions with other artists and stuff of many of our songs and that, that'll be a lot of fun to do. And I think I'm looking forward to what the future may bring."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 13, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
Sounds like we might finally be getting Stars and Stripes Vol. 2, though.  :lol :'(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 13, 2020, 07:49:33 PM
In all seriousness, you've gotta think if there weren't a hang up with Feel Flows then he would have mentioned it. So, not good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 13, 2020, 07:59:38 PM
Transcript of the interview segment:

Darren Paltrowitz:
"The last time I interviewed you was two to three years ago, and during that interview you got a phone call from Jeffrey Foskett who had just discovered some kind of an archival release that you were thinking of putting out, and one thing that we haven't discussed is how many great archival releases from you and from The Beach Boys in the last three or four years. Is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

Mike Love:
"Well I don't know how much there is in the vault, but I'd, I'll tell you this, we're coming up on probably the 60th anniversary of the group in another year or so, and that warrants something special that's for sure, and so, um, I've got some ideas on that but we're too early to talk about it. But um, uh, I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and and as you say archival but also new renditions with other artists and stuff of many of our songs and that, that'll be a lot of fun to do. And I think I'm looking forward to what the future may bring."


Just reposting that because it's the crux of the whole issue as of today August 13 when the interview was recorded.

Question: How can Mike not know what was in the vault when Bruce, for one, was interviewed along with Brian for the "Feel Flows" liner notes and the box set is reported as complete? I'm assuming the other band members were interviewed too but withholding that as fact until it's clarified...so how can Mike say he doesn't know when they're sitting on a box set that his bandmate Bruce (and Al Jardine) have mentioned publicly?

I gotta say re: Bruce. While doing the liners for the upcoming box set, we did a nearly three-hour interview. To ME -- he was the MVP. Amazing recall. Was able to put it in razor sharp perspective and proved that he's actually thought long and hard about this music. I wish we could use it all -- because he went far deeper than ever on this era, discussing at length what made this band tick during those years. He went full out. Pulled no punches.

Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.

I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing. It kills me that you haven't already.

Surely Mike knew and knows there was an upcoming box set in the works, so why would he not mention that when asked DIRECTLY about archival releases?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 13, 2020, 08:03:21 PM
Also keep in mind that Mike has a verifiable track record of pushing blame onto others whenever he can, thus if Feel Flows were being held up by anyone else in the band I’d bet a lot of money that Mike would be quick to publicly share that information if asked about it directly (which he basically was here).

His wording about “opportunities” to “come up” with archival releases is worrisome. Mike, you have an archival release literally sitting on a shelf right now, no need to figure out any opportunities or come up with any ideas - heaven forbid Mike wants to overdub the Hanson brothers on Wouldn’t It Be Nice To Live Again.

I feel really bad for Howie, Alan, and Mark. All their hard work and Mike doesn’t even acknowledge it (regardless of whoever is holding this up, Mike for sure 100% knows this exists and he just lied saying he doesn’t know how much is in the vault).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 13, 2020, 08:07:44 PM
"Well I don't know how much there is in the vault...".

I'm sure there's more, but, Ten Years of Harmony, Rarities, Endless Harmony, Hawthorne, CA, Pet Sounds Sessions, Smile Sessions, Made In California, The Big Beat 1963, Keep an Eye On Summer, Party! Uncovered and Unplugged, Becoming the Beach Boys, 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow, 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow 2, Live Sunshine, 1968 Wake the World, 1968 I Can Hear Music, 1968 Live, FEEL FLOWS, and the avalanche of everything beyond, Mark Linett on that Sunset Sound stream from February with the San Miguel and Cottonfields samples talking about how The Beach Boys are unique in not only how much stuff they left behind, but how much GOOD stuff they left behind...

"Well I don't know how much there is in the vault...". He can't be serious!    


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 13, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
Sounds like we might finally be getting Stars and Stripes Vol. 2, though.  :lol :'(

I’d rather get jackhammered in various orifices by Freddy Krueger while dressed as Minnie Pearl  than a repeat of THAT abomination 🤨


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on August 13, 2020, 11:43:57 PM
It'll be Stars & Stripes Vol. 2 but with Marc McGrath instead of the country singers on every single song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on August 13, 2020, 11:58:25 PM
I hope they’ll listen the voices of their fans and release the box set, but I think they’ll cancel and release a digital collection with some tracks from the box 🙁
We’re in the mid-August and no release date yet, so maybe if there’s no release date til September it will be canceled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 14, 2020, 07:35:25 AM
Mike sounded very evasive on these questions...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2020, 07:45:57 AM
I hope this is all just a brilliant PR campaign to generate buzz about this set...get a petition going, social media buzz, Mike Love completely snubs the set to get the people talking about how this set may not come out at all. Then in a week or two this thing is available for pre-order.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 14, 2020, 08:00:45 AM
I hope this is all just a brilliant PR campaign to generate buzz about this set...get a petition going, social media buzz, Mike Love completely snubs the set to get the people talking about how this set may not come out at all. Then in a week or two this thing is available for pre-order.

The same thing crossed my mind! We can dream...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 14, 2020, 08:28:14 AM
Folks,

I don’t think we’re getting Feel Flows. Mike Love interview from today - he is asked about archival releases, and basically says he’s looking toward the 60th anniversary and the “special” things they might be doing for that - including some kind of talk about collaborations with other artists:



I think that was also one of the first things he mentioned about what a 2012 reunion could be like. That seems to be the first thing that comes to his mind: re-recordings with "hip" artists. To tell you the truth, I think this would be the worst they could do. Not only that they already did their share of these kind of recordings, it just is ridiculous. So, if the Beach Boys will record a new album, I hope "the people that handle Brian" will make sure it is of new material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 14, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
If anything I think the interview excerpt - keep in mind this was labeled as recorded yesterday (Aug. 13) - shows where Mike's enthusiasm and priorities exist. More compilations which will most likely include "greatest hits" and "summer hits" type of packages, and perhaps worse IMO even MORE remakes, rerecordings, and guest artists remaking Beach Boys classics.

I mean, seriously - Mike says it himself in that interview. I have to think that Mike feels that's the kind of product the fans will want to buy and be enthusiastic about. Remakes, guest artists, and more hits compilations.

Yet there is a box set project that has been worked on for several years, a set of music which Bruce was involved with via his extensive liner notes interview and a set which Bruce himself touted earlier this year along with Al, and Mike ignores it completely.

So either Mike wasn't being 100% honest when he claimed he doesn't know what's in the vaults after his bandmate teased a full box set taken from the vaults, or he simply dodged the question to show instead where *he* would like to see the band's and the brand's future activities proceed. Or maybe he just doesn't care and won't promote archival releases like this currently stalled box set. Anyone's guess.

But his words are there as of yesterday for all to consider.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on August 14, 2020, 08:43:40 AM
Sounds like we might finally be getting Stars and Stripes Vol. 2, though.  :lol :'(

I’d rather get jackhammered in various orifices by Freddy Krueger while dressed as Minnie Pearl  than a repeat of THAT abomination 🤨

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Thread Trophy!!! :billy2


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 14, 2020, 09:12:53 AM
These new developments strongly support the idea that Mike is holding up FEEL FLOWS to gain leverage over the 60th anniversary plans.

And not only that, he'll veto anything that permits the post office to mail it to you once you order it.  :police:

The best plan for those who were involved would be to leak the exact contents of FEEL FLOWS, and get it into the hands of the rock press, who will run with it. It will be hard for the Lovester to keep that "well-a well-a well-a balsam" act he's doing once that occurs...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 14, 2020, 10:06:54 AM
My opinion of Mike Love has sunk to new depths...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 14, 2020, 10:59:14 AM
Sounds like we might finally be getting Stars and Stripes Vol. 2, though.  :lol :'(



:lol

I aim to please
I’d rather get jackhammered in various orifices by Freddy Krueger while dressed as Minnie Pearl  than a repeat of THAT abomination 🤨

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Thread Trophy!!! :billy2


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 14, 2020, 11:01:49 AM
Here’s the thing I don’t get....

Mike has always been Mr Commercial, yet here he is talking up stuff which next to  nobody will buy and ignoring stuff which fans are desperate to buy. Classic case of 2+2=elevendy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2020, 01:25:48 PM
I say the following with no doubt in my mind that Mike Love is the one delaying this release. Again, if it were anyone else holding this up (especially Brian) Mike wouldn't have skipped a beat to cast the blame upon them when asked straight up about archival releases...because at this point I'm sure Mike knows that he is the one being blamed for it's non-release and you'd think he'd be quick to clear that up if it weren't the case. Mike was asked and completely snubbed 3 years of hard work on what is apparently a glorious boxset that is ENTIRELY completed. What a slap in the face to Howie, Alan, and Mark for all the work they've done over the years with these releases.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

Perhaps this is the problem. Mike doesn't at all want an image change for The Beach Boys. And if the set is that good (which I am damn sure it is) perhaps Mike is worried about the publicity and continued change of perception that people have of The Beach Boys. Though one would have thought that Mike wouldn't have approved of The Smile Sessions, but perhaps in the wake of that he saw the fanfare for the Love and Mercy movie, the continued reverence for Brian Wilson overshadowing his own Kokomo dream. Perhaps he really is sick of the Wilson brothers continuing to steal the show.

That being said, Don Malcom's theory of Mike using this to gain leverage over the 60s Anniversary is interesting. That being said, Howie didn't really state that there were ongoing talks about the release, it sounds like it's completely dead until someone revives it.

I have to think that Mike feels that's the kind of product the fans will want to buy and be enthusiastic about. Remakes, guest artists, and more hits compilations.

If Feel Flows ever comes out, I would love to compare the sales figures for Feel Flows and Mike's UTI album....guarantee the former would blow the latter out of the water.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 14, 2020, 01:41:15 PM
I say the following with no doubt in my mind that Mike Love is the one delaying this release. Again, if it were anyone else holding this up (especially Brian) Mike wouldn't have skipped a beat to cast the blame upon them when asked straight up about archival releases...because at this point I'm sure Mike knows that he is the one being blamed for it's non-release and you'd think he'd be quick to clear that up if it weren't the case. Mike was asked and completely snubbed 3 years of hard work on what is apparently a glorious boxset that is ENTIRELY completed. What a slap in the face to Howie, Alan, and Mark for all the work they've done over the years with these releases.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

Perhaps this is the problem. Mike doesn't at all want an image change for The Beach Boys. And if the set is that good (which I am damn sure it is) perhaps Mike is worried about the publicity and continued change of perception that people have of The Beach Boys. Though one would have thought that Mike wouldn't have approved of The Smile Sessions, but perhaps in the wake of that he saw the fanfare for the Love and Mercy movie, the continued reverence for Brian Wilson overshadowing his own Kokomo dream. Perhaps he really is sick of the Wilson brothers continuing to steal the show.

That being said, Don Malcom's theory of Mike using this to gain leverage over the 60s Anniversary is interesting. That being said, Howie didn't really state that there were ongoing talks about the release, it sounds like it's completely dead until someone revives it.


I'm literally sick to my stomach because I'm sure you're right.

Either that, and/or deliberate revenge for the other members of this band doing the petition to stand up to the awful trophy hunting show earlier this year.  Or revenge against that segment of the fanbase. Not that all segments of the fanbase don't want this, but it will particularly piss off a particular section, his biggest critics.

This is completely absurd. I still think the man could be bribed. If enough people were willing to purchase this set, or literally if some deep pocketed superfan of the band literally was going to back up the Brinks truck into Mike's bank account, perhaps he could be persuaded otherwise.

I don't see how he isn't the cause of this.  It's something related to ego. Every damn time.

I swear, if I had deep pockets, I would offer him seven figures directly deposited into his bank account, plus a matching COVID  charity donation. Get this material out into the world. This is utterly sickening  to think it's being held up for trivial matters, I can't imagine it's for anything else. And this interview seems to be the beginning of a coverup.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 14, 2020, 02:22:54 PM
Maybe if we all say we’ll pitch in a quarter for every copy sold to the charity of his choice it’d get his attention 😒


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2020, 02:37:12 PM
If I pitch a quarter anywhere it'll be to a charity that directly opposes the Transcendental Meditation movement. Goodness that religion/practice must utterly suck if after 50 years it still can't keep someone from being so damn petty.

You all realize how many hundreds/thousands of dollars many of us have spent on this band? Between tickets to shows, boxsets, books, movies, albums bought over and over again, memorabilia at concerts, etc. No one should have to bribe their way to hearing this boxset.

Instead, we should create a Go-Fund-Me for Mark, Alan, and Howie. Us fans could pitch in $50-$100 a piece into the fund as a thank you for all their hard work over the years. Seriously, the last thing Mike Love needs is more money and a boost to his ego. If anything, any money we have should be going to the people who worked their ass off on this set and can't even show the world how great it is. Mark, Alan, and Howie have had to walk on freaking egg shells for so many years, trying not to upset the entity that they have put their lives into. And I'm absolutely serious about creating a Go-Fund-Me for these guys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 14, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
Giving the person responsible for blocking the release of FEEL FLOWS a financial reward for “un-blocking” it is absurd.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 14, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
Electing Trump as president was absurd.

It still happened.

At the end of the day, if the set is released money will flow to Love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 14, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
Giving the person responsible for blocking the release of FEEL FLOWS a financial reward for “un-blocking” it is absurd.  

It happens all the time. Look at the Wonder Years TV show DVD release. That was held up for years because of music licensing issues, because the songwriters and publishers wanted more coin for usage of their songs that had originally been licensed only for airings on TV and not for physical media.

It took a lot of legal red tape - and what one could consider bribery - but eventually it was finally released with almost entirely the original music intact minus a few exceptions that required music replacement..

That said, from a moral and ethical standpoint I totally agree with what you're saying. But it's pretty common. Look at how many movie productions perhaps never would've gotten made if not for an actor holding out for more money. Maybe that's not exactly what's happening here but ultimately perhaps money could make it happen. I don't know.

But something is happening here for either money or leverage. Look at how the US Postal Service is currently being used as a pawn. This whole situation makes me so unbelievably sad beyond words.

As unhappy as I am and as most every fan in the know is right now, I'll still heap praise on Mike for his contributions to this music if this set comes out, regardless of what's holding it up. I think that goes for most fans and the media too. It's sort of like a "dog missing" sign that offers a reward with no questions asked.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sea of tunes on August 14, 2020, 04:40:27 PM
Here's a cool interview with Mark Linett from February, 2020: https://youtu.be/prFdy74TyuA?t=9344 – full interview goes for almost 80 minutes.

At this point, he discusses recently mixing the "San Miguel" backing track: https://youtu.be/prFdy74TyuA?t=9685. The discussion also goes in depth about his work with BW and his experience filming LOVE & MERCY, etc.

I love detailed interviews such as this... I consider it a privilege to listen to someone as talented as Mr. Linett talk shop.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
Giving the person responsible for blocking the release of FEEL FLOWS a financial reward for “un-blocking” it is absurd.  

Completely agree. Apparently Mike Love has a net worth of $80 Million. I doubt he'd even care to acquire some paltry sum of money scrounged up by fans that he hates. Any money he gets should be from the sales of the set itself and nothing more. Also, I don't think even Mike would care for the negative optics of him hustling fans during a time of financial turmoil.

But this isn't about money. It's about some absolutely trivial qualm he has with the set itself or a member of the band.

- Mike won't even acknowledge that this set exists even though he 100% knows that this set exists
- If this were a problem solvable by anyone close to The Beach Boys camps then Howie wouldn't have to come on here to fire a rescue flare in a last ditch effort to save the set
- If this were a problem solvable by money anyone at Capitol Records could show Mike projections of the $$$ that this set would pour into his bank account

No, this seems to be a case of something so fucking dumb that not even Mike wants to acknowledge it. He didn't want to touch that "archival" question with a ten-foot pole because he was probably afraid that if he did delve into it further he would've been asked specifically about the Feel Flows set. But instead we got sidetracked into Mike's dark future vision of The Beach Boys which I'm sure includes us hearing Mark McGrath shout "Do It!" repetitively over a remake of "All I Want To Do"

:wall are there any Mike apologists here who want to cheer me up with some unrealistic optimism about how this set still has a chance of coming out? Maybe I need to browse elsewhere for that fantasy...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 14, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
I think someone who travels between this board and that other place (which does have some great stuff now and again--that whole HOLLAND thread over there was pretty terrific) to find out how many of those folks are signing the FEEL FLOWS petition. If they are sitting on their hands over there for whatever sets of reasons, they should be urged to throw off all the shackles that are binding them and hit hard at the battle that's confronting us--the celebration of the band's greatest collective period of creativity. They need to advocate for this release, and be a part of those who are testifying to their willingness to put down their hard-earned dough for this release.

Enough noise made about this will eventually result in press coverage of the situation, which will force their hands in terms of explaining who, what, where, when and why on earth they are doing this when they are just a few steps from the final round-up. I again urge whoever is in a position to be the "Deep Throat" of FEEL FLOWS (hmm, that's getting a little too kinky even for THIS board...) to leak the track listing for this puppy to make it clear just how much stuff we're talking about.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2020, 05:14:53 PM
I think someone who travels between this board and that other place (which does have some great stuff now and again--that whole HOLLAND thread over there was pretty terrific) to find out how many of those folks are signing the FEEL FLOWS petition. If they are sitting on their hands over there for whatever sets of reasons, they should be urged to throw off all the shackles that are binding them and hit hard at the battle that's confronting us--the celebration of the band's greatest collective period of creativity. They need to advocate for this release, and be a part of those who are testifying to their willingness to put down their hard-earned dough for this release.

Enough noise made about this will eventually result in press coverage of the situation, which will force their hands in terms of explaining who, what, where, when and why on earth they are doing this when they are just a few steps from the final round-up. I again urge whoever is in a position to be the "Deep Throat" of FEEL FLOWS (hmm, that's getting a little too kinky even for THIS board...) to leak the track listing for this puppy to make it clear just how much stuff we're talking about.

They're too busy whining about Guitarfool listening to some YouTube videos to actually do something productive about this set. Seriously, very amusing to watch what goes on over there (I mean, I'm sure our circular banter is amusing to them too, but at least we seem somewhat concerned about this set).

The part highlighted in yellow - freaking fantastic idea. I know it's probably not plausible, but man Brian himself should leak the tracklisting to someone at Rolling Stone Magazine, and publicly ask for support to get this thing released. Hell, Brian boycotted his own music earlier this year...I don't think him going to Rolling Stone is too outside the realm of possibility haha.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 14, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
I think someone who travels between this board and that other place (which does have some great stuff now and again--that whole HOLLAND thread over there was pretty terrific) to find out how many of those folks are signing the FEEL FLOWS petition. If they are sitting on their hands over there for whatever sets of reasons, they should be urged to throw off all the shackles that are binding them and hit hard at the battle that's confronting us--the celebration of the band's greatest collective period of creativity. They need to advocate for this release, and be a part of those who are testifying to their willingness to put down their hard-earned dough for this release.

Enough noise made about this will eventually result in press coverage of the situation, which will force their hands in terms of explaining who, what, where, when and why on earth they are doing this when they are just a few steps from the final round-up. I again urge whoever is in a position to be the "Deep Throat" of FEEL FLOWS (hmm, that's getting a little too kinky even for THIS board...) to leak the track listing for this puppy to make it clear just how much stuff we're talking about.

They're too busy whining about Guitarfool listening to some YouTube videos to actually do something productive about this set. Seriously, very amusing to watch what goes on over there (I mean, I'm sure our circular banter is amusing to them too, but at least we seem somewhat concerned about this set).

The part highlighted in yellow - freaking fantastic idea. I know it's probably not plausible, but man Brian himself should leak the tracklisting to someone at Rolling Stone Magazine, and publicly ask for support to get this thing released. Hell, Brian boycotted his own music earlier this year...I don't think him going to Rolling Stone is too outside the realm of possibility haha.

That is an absolutely brilliant idea.

In fact, there should be a big printed followup article to that "Bedroom Tapes of Brian Wilson" that specifically delves into the mystery of why this set has gone missing after it was teased and spoken about by various bandmembers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 14, 2020, 06:43:18 PM
The petition currently stands at 611 signatures. Again I'll say, that's a pretty good total for something so specific and started by relatively small fan community efforts (in comparison to political petitions, etc).

At this point it's just foolish to suggest there is not or there would not be a demand for this set. And that number shows only those who signed up after seeing the link through Beach Boys related groups, imagine how many more there are in the record collecting community, the music community in general (musicians and recording folks in particular love this era of the band second to only PS/Smile), and fans of those albums not participating online who don't even know such a set was in the works.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 14, 2020, 07:33:15 PM
Maybe Mike will say yes if he can precede each track with "welllllllllllllllllll." ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 14, 2020, 07:44:41 PM
Is it known with certainty that all members of BRI have to sign off on an album project? It’s not a situation where 3/4 could? What about the talk about the Love & Mercy soundtrack? Was that different because it was not an album release by The Beach Boys ?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 14, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
Is it known with certainty that all members of BRI have to sign off on an album project? It’s not a situation where 3/4 could? What about the talk about the Love & Mercy soundtrack? Was that different because it was not an album release by The Beach Boys ?

Good question. I wondered the same thing. Love & Mercy may have been different because it was more a case of licensing and usage (and subsequent royalties) to an external interest and external companies with a film using existing music, rather than a historical or archival box set from and focused on the band itself. Yet there were green lights given in the process going back a few years to even get access to the tapes which would appear on the box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 14, 2020, 09:13:51 PM
A unanimous vote is madness considering the dysfunction. Should be majority.

In relation to this era, I was thinking of the An American Family Film, which I actually like...well Part One anyway. I'm not familiar with the intricate details, but Stamos produced that and it was kind of guided by Mike's heavy hand, or pen, right?

Smile falls apart, Brian's burning the album covers then immediately launches into Let the Wind Blow...ok sure. Then it's 1969, there's the Manson stuff, showing Brian giving away gold records while endlessly playing Shortin' Bread or whatever, while the guys record Add Some Music - a Mike co-written and lead vocal song. Dennis gets a moment with Forever. Then it jumps to 1973, Murry passes away, post-Watergate/American Graffiti they're popular again, Mike comes up with Endless Summer, and they're back playing the Surfin'/Beach/Cars songs, as apparently it should be. All is right again. Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATPST, Holland - all evaporated. Rieley, that whole era, it's like it never happened.

I get the albums didn't originally sell as well, the general public watching this thing wouldn't be as familiar, time constraints, etc. But maybe it got memory holed because he considers it all a blip in their career - an unfortunate detour. Could the FF veto be that he simply hates this era?    


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Niko on August 14, 2020, 09:23:43 PM
I've been lurking for a long time, just popped back to say...dear god please get this box set out, it sounds too good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 14, 2020, 09:32:05 PM
Well, while all signs point to Mike as far as we can tell right now - I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a moment and consider it might be more than one member, and/or someone else or some other series of events. After all, stranger things have happened and this is The Beach Boys (who would have thought it was Carl responsible for the 1995 potential album not happening?).

It’s a stretch, but let’s say there’s some tension behind the scenes on FF, and Mike doesn’t want to talk about it in the interview so kind of cuts away to talk about the 60th. “I don’t know how much is in the vaults” - quite possible he truly doesn’t. Maybe he signed off on FF, and Al Jardine is holding it up (ha), and Mike simply doesn’t care that much about it and moved on (“oh well, that seemed like a cool box set but we couldn’t get it together, what’s up next?”).

I went through the exercise to show that I’m not trying to show an anti-Mike bias. I certainly don’t think he usually deserves the kind of talk he gets around here. I think it is certainly possible he’s not the source of the holdup.

BUT - truly, this time all logic points to him being the issue. The whole tone in the interview sounded like was uncomfortable with that topic, and it sure seems like he wants to move right past it all to the next round of having fun fun fun in the sun. My own opinion on the why - just speculating - is that Mike doesn’t like the 1969-71 “brand” of the BB and wants to maintain control of the image of the group as he sees it now. I think he tolerates the Pet Sounds/Smile period because it was still during the commercially successful era, and he was still semi-at the forefront. Wild Honey he was involved with heavily. ‘68-69 didn’t have the commercial nor critical viability for anything beyond the download dump.

That said, I think there may be more to this than just Mike. The band has historically been way more guarded about the Brother era for some reason. I think I mentioned when I met Al, he was quite put off my my mention of “Lookin At Tomorrow”. It was odd. I wonder if there’s some type of perfectionism, someone not happy with some other aspects, or MORE than one member having concerns. Another thing to consider is: Al, Mike, Brian, and Carl’s family obviously let this thing get to the COMPLETED point only to THEN block it at the last minute. That means whatever people were saying months ago (Al & Bruce, etc) May not be relevant now. Something changed when it went from in-progress to finished. Part of why it’s relevant to know if they need a unanimous decision or not. One thing that doesn’t add up is if Mike was opposed to this era getting deluxe treatment, why/how would the project have gotten that far, only to have the breaks put on after? It’s all pretty peculiar.

Just thinking out loud.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 14, 2020, 09:45:37 PM
Just to be fair here, regarding the comments about the kind of talk Mike gets here: Have you looked at the internet recently? I'm jokingly saying that, but anytime you come across a Beach Boys related article or feature that allows reader comments you see that kind of talk at a far greater percentage than saying "here" as in this is the only place that calls out Mike Love, and it's from people who I'd bet 99% of them are not active on Beach Boys social media or web communities like this one. Again just to be fair.

Back to the issues of the box set: Whether it has anything to do with this box set or not, I think what "Cork On The Ocean" said above is worth considering even separate from this specific box set issue. That "American Family" TV movie is and was Mike Love's version of the band's history, there's no other way to describe it. When you watch it and notice that entire eras of the band's history and music are missing, in this case the same era covered by the box set, you have to consider why that is, and the post above does a good job of identifying it so anyone who watches it can judge for themselves. But when you have entire eras like the PS/Smile era painted with such a broad and ridiculous brush to where it shows Mike "saving" Brian from a gaggle of druggies and hangers-on, and when you have people who we *know* were not of that ilk yet were portrayed that way in the film, something definitely stinks, something isn't right. And the reasons for that are when you line up some of Mike's accounts of that era from lawsuits, books, interviews and whatnot and see that the scenes played out in that movie were what Mike thinks they were or wants people watching to think they were, the depictions are simply not factual for how it really was. It's as simple as that.

So when the entire era "missing" from Mike's televised version of events lines up with the era covered in this box set currently in limbo, whether or not one has anything to do with the other, it is definitely interesting to consider.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 14, 2020, 10:18:08 PM
The idea that the Feel Flows box would change the public perception of who the Beach Boys are and what they represent has me thinking, how would Mike and Bruce have to respond to this? Would it mean a return to guru robes for Mike (and showing his bald head on stage)? Would all the surfing, cars, girls songs be replaced with the likes of Be Still, Meant For You, Country Air, Wake the World, All I Wanna Do, This Whole World, Long Promised Road, All This is That, and the full California Saga? Would Bruce actually sit at a grand piano, in long pants, playing audible parts?
No more beach balls in the crowds; pass the incense and peppermints instead.
No more state fair and Seaworld gigs; instead, they would play colleges and coffee houses.
Instead of selling t-shirts and baseball caps, the souvenir stand would feature organic vege-tables, herbal supplements, and copies of Whole Earth News.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 14, 2020, 10:42:18 PM
Let's not forget, a few short years ago, very recently in fact, Mike started playing All I Wanna Do in concert. And he did it more than a few times.

And seemingly, he perhaps did it partly in response to growing positive Internet buzz about the song, as if he had forgotten that it was a song he had written that had this level of acclaim that he had been unaware of until recently.

So... that is at least a recent example of Mike responding positively to positive buzz about his contributions from that era.

What has changed since then?

Who knows how much bad blood was generated behind the scenes after the awful trophy hunting show which Brian and Al publicly spoke out against. Who knows how much that may have strained relations behind the scenes. If Mike is as vengeful as his buddy Donald Trump, he would perhaps do any number of things purely out of revenge.

As somebody else speculated earlier, I think this could have something to do with the amount of incredible Dennis Wilson content during that time which might make Mike feel more of an inferiority complex if it got too much Wilson-centric praise for his liking. I really think Mike can only tolerate a certain amount of public praise aimed specifically at *The Wilsons* before he lashes out. Yet of course, Mike would still have his chance to shine without a doubt on this box set. There is zero doubt in my mind he would still come out looking good from his contributions.

To take Mike out of the equation, I suppose it could be possible that there are some non band songwriters who contributed to some of the material who might be holding out for more money. But my hunch tells me that the answer is somewhere closer to the vicinity of some of the ideas I am hypothesizing about above.

I should also add, I'd love to be completely wrong about my ideas. I don't want any of this stuff to be true whatsoever. It speaks of dysfunction and utter tragic family dynamic and I hope to God that I am wrong. And I also hope that this set comes out and that I can eat my words which I would be more than happy to do.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 14, 2020, 10:58:14 PM
This is pure speculation and I know very little about the facts involved, but:

I think it's interesting to consider that Mike stated under oath (during one of his litigations against Brian) that Brian ceased contributing to the Beach Boys after 1967. I'm not sure to what degree his case hinged on this argument, nor can I remember which specific lawsuit it pertained to. Still, I think it's arguable that Mike has a lot of investment in preserving that false narrative.

Yes we've had the 1967-68 sets which got through seemingly without his objection, but they were pretty low key, especially Wake the World and I Can Hear Music which weren't promoted whatsoever. Maybe Mike has concerns about a well publicised release bringing Brian's level of activity in 69-71 into public attention. He certainly has long benefited from the 'Brian went to bed' myth - could it be that he actually fears legal ramifications if his statements in line with that myth are proven false in front of a larger audience?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 15, 2020, 02:01:34 AM
Talk of this set changing the way the Beach Boys are viewed seems far fetched to me in relation to some of the theories being put forward.

Of course the set will be incredible for us die hard fans but Sunflower/Surfs Up and lots of previously unreleased bits and pieces from that era are already out there.

The SMiLE sessions are out there! Nothing is gonna beat that IMO in relation to changing the way the band are viewed.

Huge thanks to all the guys who helped put it together. I'm confident we will get it soon.....ish.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on August 15, 2020, 03:19:02 AM
Talk of this set changing the way the Beach Boys are viewed seems far fetched to me in relation to some of the theories being put forward.

Of course the set will be incredible for us die hard fans but Sunflower/Surfs Up and lots of previously unreleased bits and pieces from that era are already out there.

The SMiLE sessions are out there! Nothing is gonna beat that IMO in relation to changing the way the band are viewed.

Huge thanks to all the guys who helped put it together. I'm confident we will get it soon.....ish.

I agree, while Sunflower and Surfs Up are good the amount of times the record label rejected this material should mean at least something. I’m looking forward to hopefully hearing this stuff if and when it does get released but to think it’s going to be some profound revelation that will change music history is going a bit far.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 05:40:24 AM
Howie (the guy who spent three years helping put this set together) said that “It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.

Which no matter how you look at it would change the perception of The Beach Boys for a lot of people (even if just slightly). Many people will likely always see them as a fun-in-the-sun band, but for those of us who delve a little deeper, this set is supposed to be a complete game-changer.

It’s my theory that the guy who pushed the lie that Brian only “stayed in bed doing drugs and collecting checks for three decades” (paraphrase, but it is nearly verbatim from the 2005 lawsuit) wouldn’t want even more evidence out there to prove him wrong (even though there is already a mountain of evidence to prove him wrong).

- Howie came on this forum to let us know this set is entirely completed and it has no scheduled release date (and frighteningly he already saved this set from dying on the vine TWICE).
- According to Bruce or Al, this set was supposed to come out in February 2020 (it has likely been ready to go for a long time).
- If there were ANY deals/talks currently going on about any content in the set Howie would not have come on here and spoke about the set being shelved (but clearly this thing is just dead at the moment)
- Someone in the band clearly doesn’t want this set out. It’s probably not Bruce or Al because they were both excited enough to spill the beans about it ages ago (and Bruce was the “MVP” for being so detailed in his interviews for the liner notes for Feel Flows). It’s probably not Carl’s estate because why would they refuse to make money off of this set? It’s probably not Brian because, according to Howie, Brian went so in depth for the liner notes interview (especially regarding the song ‘Marcella’) thus obviously Brian approved of this boxset otherwise he wouldn’t have wasted his time doing the interview in the first place. That leaves one guy who has a history of badmouthing the Wilson’s and lying about Brian’s involvement with the band during this era
- Mike was asked about archival releases the other day and completely snubbed this set. If he were keeping quiet because there was infighting/talks going on I would understand. But, again, if there were talks going on then Howie would not have come on here because doing so would possibly disrupt the talks. But this set is clearly dead at the moment.

And that’s the most alarming part: if this were a qualm about a liner note or a veto for a couple songs, I’m sure those problems could have been worked out months ago. But instead this thing is just collecting dust on a shelf and clearly no talks are going on at the moment (again, otherwise Howie wouldn’t have come on here to make some waves).

I wish there was more we could do other than sign a petition, but hopefully that goes somewhere. What a damn shame all this is happening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 15, 2020, 07:53:28 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 15, 2020, 08:02:38 AM
I'm just trying to think of different angles here, but I remember vaguely Mike wanting his daughter(s)? to sing some song on the 50th tour, but Melinda putting a stop to it cause it was a Brian lead? Am I remembering this wrong?

It could be Brians camp that stopping this release behind Brians back.

It could be Mike holding it up for leverage for a 60th reunion.

It could be the record label thinking the final product isn't strong enough.

It could be a bunch of small things adding to a bigger problem.

It could be Bruce or Al stopping it and speaking about it in the press to save face (joking)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 15, 2020, 08:17:03 AM
I'm just trying to think of different angles here, but I remember vaguely Mike wanting his daughter(s)? to sing some song on the 50th tour, but Melinda putting a stop to it cause it was a Brian lead? Am I remembering this wrong?

It could be Brians camp that stopping this release behind Brians back.

It could be Mike holding it up for leverage for a 60th reunion.

It could be the record label thinking the final product isn't strong enough.

It could be a bunch of small things adding to a bigger problem.

It could be Bruce or Al stopping it and speaking about it in the press to save face (joking)


You forgot to add that it's my fault.   :hat ;) :p :lol ;D :banana :ohyeah


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Curt Lambert on August 15, 2020, 08:21:22 AM
If it is Mike stopping it, can't he simply be out voted by the others?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 08:22:15 AM
It could be the record label thinking the final product isn't strong enough.

Jon Stebbins has said in this very thread that the label wants this thing released.

And I just can't see Brian's camp being petty enough to completely halt a release like this - without any negotiation or compromise. I mean, Mark Linett is the guy who played Chuck Britz in Brian's own major motion picture biopic...Linett doesn't seem like the kind of guy that Brian's camp would completely give the finger to. Also, this thing is a moneymaker and it only helps Brian's camp (both in image and financially - especially with Long Promised Road still awaiting some official release).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 08:24:50 AM
If it is Mike stopping it, can't he simply be out voted by the others?

I think it was HeyJude who came on and talked about this many pages back (I can't find the post), but I think because it isn't already officially released material it needs a unanimous vote. Like, I think the gist was that if this were a compilation of previously released material it could be released by a majority vote, but because it is full of unreleased stuff every voting member has to agree to it.

I could totally be misremembering that, hopefully HeyJude can chime in on this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 15, 2020, 08:25:23 AM
If it is Mike stopping it, can't he simply be out voted by the others?

If they tried that I have a feeling there would be threat of some kind of legal action to follow...but it's all speculation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 15, 2020, 08:30:02 AM
I guess the question too is what makes *this set* different than the previous releases of similar deep vault material? For all the speculation, the only thing we have to go on that's new is Mike's interview from two days ago where he not only ignores the box set completely and claims he doesn't know what's in the vaults (even though this specific project has been happening for 2+ years), but he also shifts the conversation to his plans for a 60th anniversary bash including more remakes, guest singers covering the tunes, and more compilations.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 08:45:46 AM
I guess the question too is what makes *this set* different than the previous releases of similar deep vault material?

Perhaps it is indeed the fact that it "forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade."

I mean, so many fans already knew about SMiLE and had their hands on instrumentals and sessions. While Wild Honey/Friends/2020 are great albums they aren't groundbreaking. But Sunflower is ranked up there in Rolling Stone's 200 Greatest Albums Of All Time list (I'm not even sure SMiLE made that list)...and surely a set like this would only bolster that ranking. It could just be that good.

And as others have pointed out, maybe it's not even the content of the set but rather the set is being used as leverage for the 60th reunion. And on that note, if I had a choice between getting a 60th reunion or the Feel Flows set I would 100% take the Feel Flows set. I've been completely content with Brian's lineup, people seem to enjoy Mike's gigs (good enough that people risk contracting COVID to see them). What could the 60th give us that could even top the C50? I'll take the magic of this boxset over the drama of a 60th reunion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 15, 2020, 08:49:41 AM
I agree - I guess I should clarify and add what makes this set different from the others in that it is being held up as it is, while the others didn't seem to have such issues, especially after the set was basically ready to go.

As far as a 60th concert tour or something? I agree - That ship already sailed way back in Fall 2012.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 15, 2020, 09:17:24 AM
I agree - I guess I should clarify and add what makes this set different from the others in that it is being held up as it is, while the others didn't seem to have such issues, especially after the set was basically ready to go.

As far as a 60th concert tour or something? I agree - That ship already sailed way back in Fall 2012.

Also, the idea *if* the FF box set is somehow being used as leverage in some fashion for a 60th reunion is gross as hell (if it's true, which I doubt it is). If that were true, how could any fan enjoy an onstay"reunion" that would come about essentially via blackmail, arm twisting, and using the threat of screwing over deceased bandmates' legacies by not releasing great material in order to force their petty current touring demands on their bandmates. I'm not buying that's the reason, but if it is, it's awful.

Yeah, if the box set is being used as leverage, it's disgusting no matter how you spin it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 09:36:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kQoTi3J.png)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 15, 2020, 10:01:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kQoTi3J.png)

THIS.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 15, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the material surpasses the 50 year mark without being released, Mike and the guys lose the copyright and the label can release the boxset however they please?

At least the unreleased content of the box set? Or am I completely wrong about this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 15, 2020, 11:09:09 AM
99% of us are guessing here but the Love vs Wilson ego stuff doesn't make sense for me.

Lots of Brian stuff in recent copyright drops...68 stuff for instance. Proof is already on Sunflower anyway that Brian wasn't in bed, he's all over it.

It's likely down to some financial gripe between Mike and Brian IMO or perhaps outside writers.

Mike is the only author of "Big Sur" right? That's always seemed a little odd to me and perhaps is a reason why the 4/4 version has never been released. Does Mike even care about that song though? probably not.

I've read what Howie and Jon have said but I'm hopeful that whatever is stalling it will get sorted and it will be released in the near future.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on August 15, 2020, 12:11:12 PM
But didn’t Mike recently re-record 4/4 Big Sur? Some were expecting to see it appear on his recent solo offerings but in the end all we got was YouTube clip I think.



rab, that pic reminds me of someone on the board who used to do amazing mockups of fantasy Beach Boys releases, during the Smile Sessions era perhaps (9 years, f***). Where is that valued poster these days?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on August 15, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept an eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:25 PM
rab, that pic reminds me of someone on the board who used to do amazing mockups of fantasy Beach Boys releases, during the Smile Sessions era perhaps (9 years, f***). Where is that valued poster these days?

I remember those! I forget who it was but man they really helped get us hyped up for the set. Can't believe that was almost 10 years ago - how time flies!

Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept a eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.

Thanks for joining and adding your voice to the mix. For better or for worse, this place is looked at by those close to and (at times) by those in the band. So your voice is definitely noted. Hopefully whoever it is that is in the position of giving this set the green light will hear the voices and have a change of heart.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 15, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
I think the poster was "earcandy"....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 01:49:25 PM
Great memory, SB!

(http://www.earcandymag.com/parody/mikeloveaction.jpg)

(http://www.earcandymag.com/parody/smilesandlabel.jpg)

Only two of EarCandy's creations were still available to view. Shame his boxset concepts weren't still up.

And I've still yet to make my little bottle of SMiLE sandbox sand!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on August 15, 2020, 02:44:58 PM
My guess is this is payback for the trophy hunting thing.  From here on out Mike will only support “his” BBs projects, which means corny remakes, etc. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Abracadabra on August 15, 2020, 03:10:20 PM
Hi, I have just joined the SS board, but have been massive BB fan since aged 10-ish (now 40) and they been my favorite band since then. I have been following the Feel Flows thread, checking in most days for news on a release, but alas, none so far. Still remaining optimistic we will see a release (soon), even if digital download only. Fingers and toes crossed!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 15, 2020, 03:33:20 PM
Hi, I have just joined the SS board, but have been massive BB fan since aged 10-ish (now 40) and they been my favorite band since then. I have been following the Feel Flows thread, checking in most days for news on a release, but alas, none so far. Still remaining optimistic we will see a release (soon), even if digital download only. Fingers and toes crossed!

Welcome!!!

Hopefully we will see it released


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on August 15, 2020, 04:00:31 PM
Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept a eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.

Thanks for joining and adding your voice to the mix. For better or for worse, this place is looked at by those close to and (at times) by those in the band. So your voice is definitely noted. Hopefully whoever it is that is in the position of giving this set the green light will hear the voices and have a change of heart.
[/quote]


Absolutely. Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson's contributions to this thread demonstrate the impact that SS has, and as and when the band members check in here I am sure they are struck by the passion and love for their work shown by their fans. I hope these sentiments can go some way to easing the problems that appear to be stalling this project.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on August 15, 2020, 04:05:13 PM
rab, that pic reminds me of someone on the board who used to do amazing mockups of fantasy Beach Boys releases, during the Smile Sessions era perhaps (9 years, f***). Where is that valued poster these days?

I remember those! I forget who it was but man they really helped get us hyped up for the set. Can't believe that was almost 10 years ago - how time flies!

Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept a eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.

Thanks for joining and adding your voice to the mix. For better or for worse, this place is looked at by those close to and (at times) by those in the band. So your voice is definitely noted. Hopefully whoever it is that is in the position of giving this set the green light will hear the voices and have a change of heart.


Absolutely. Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson's contributions to this thread demonstrate the impact that SS has, and as and when the band members check in here I am sure they are struck by the passion and love for their work shown by their fans. I hope these sentiments can go some way to easing the problems that appear to be stalling this project.
[/quote]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 15, 2020, 04:58:28 PM
rab, that pic reminds me of someone on the board who used to do amazing mockups of fantasy Beach Boys releases, during the Smile Sessions era perhaps (9 years, f***). Where is that valued poster these days?

I remember those! I forget who it was but man they really helped get us hyped up for the set. Can't believe that was almost 10 years ago - how time flies!

Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept a eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.

Thanks for joining and adding your voice to the mix. For better or for worse, this place is looked at by those close to and (at times) by those in the band. So your voice is definitely noted. Hopefully whoever it is that is in the position of giving this set the green light will hear the voices and have a change of heart.


Absolutely. Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson's contributions to this thread demonstrate the impact that SS has, and as and when the band members check in here I am sure they are struck by the passion and love for their work shown by their fans. I hope these sentiments can go some way to easing the problems that appear to be stalling this project.

This place can get rather opinionated, so I’m sure whenever band members decide to visit they either see great support or very blunt negative criticism. Al Jardine is probably the only one who escapes any criticism however haha. Just the nature of any fandom I suppose.

You’re absolutely right though. While I do complain about Mike, I really hope he knows that every fan does appreciate what he brought to the music - be it his unique vocals or incredible lyrical contributions. And I hope Brian knows that even in the face of criticism for his solo output that the reason why we’re all willing to sign up for a message board is because of his music.

We all do have great passion for this music - whether it’s OldSurferDude or Cam Mott. We’re all here because we freaking love this band, the history of this band, and the drama that follows this band. This is just yet another part of a chapter in The Beach Boys saga, and hopefully this chapter has a happy ending.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 15, 2020, 05:07:18 PM
Hi guys, I'm a huge BB fan and as such am desperate to see this thing come to light. I've always kept an eye on Smiley Smile to satiate my thirst for everything BB-related. The whole Feel Flows project and the work put into it behind the scenes has prompted me to sign up here and have my two-cents-worth - as stated previously, FF has the potential to be a game changer and in the grand scheme of things can only benefit this amazing band's legacy as a whole, personal differences aside. I'm sure there are many more like me who haven't voiced their love of the BBs on here before but really want to see the project come to full fruition and are ready to spend their hard-earned money on what would be the perfect Christmas present. I live in hope that one day the full FF set will sit next to my beloved BB vinyl collection and boxset releases.
Welcome to the board!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on August 15, 2020, 06:25:00 PM
Welcome, as well!  We are happy to have you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 15, 2020, 06:41:31 PM
The idea that the Feel Flows box would change the public perception of who the Beach Boys are and what they represent has me thinking, how would Mike and Bruce have to respond to this? Would it mean a return to guru robes for Mike (and showing his bald head on stage)? Would all the surfing, cars, girls songs be replaced with the likes of Be Still, Meant For You, Country Air, Wake the World, All I Wanna Do, This Whole World, Long Promised Road, All This is That, and the full California Saga? Would Bruce actually sit at a grand piano, in long pants, playing audible parts?
No more beach balls in the crowds; pass the incense and peppermints instead.
No more state fair and Seaworld gigs; instead, they would play colleges and coffee houses.
Instead of selling t-shirts and baseball caps, the souvenir stand would feature organic vege-tables, herbal supplements, and copies of Whole Earth News.


And tubes of Mama Says organic toothpaste. Also, the concert stage could be a replica of the Radiant Radish.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on August 16, 2020, 05:05:35 PM
Someone on the Hoffman forum claims to know the real reason the box is delayed.  Of course he isn't telling, so...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on August 17, 2020, 05:00:33 AM
Someone on the Hoffman forum claims to know the real reason the box is delayed.  Of course he isn't telling, so...

Yeah, I asked if he could give anything close to a indication of how he feels it's going... and he kinda sits where we are. It's more (he says) that he knows someone in the know, rather than actually knowing the project.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 17, 2020, 05:10:39 AM
My guess is this is payback for the trophy hunting thing. 

Totally doubtful.  Assuming Mike is the culprit in the first place (we're just making educated assumptions after all), this seems like it's just him being his usual difficult self. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on August 17, 2020, 05:24:59 AM
The more I read this thread the more I just feel frustrated.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 17, 2020, 05:48:09 AM
Two more points on this:

—There is a massive irony in play at this point when one takes a look at the material in the recent ESQ related to SUNFLOWER. In the interview segment Mike and Bruce are prominent (far more so than Brian) and both speak positively about the material on the LP--and, what’s more, each goes out of his way to say positive things about Dennis' songs on the LP.

That said, it's another step from a warm/fuzzy memory of the material officially released on the LP to an all-out endorsement of opening up the vaults and releasing scores of unreleased material. That's why it is so crucial that someone leak the actual contents of the FEEL FLOWS box set: not only is it the only way that the music press will be cognizant of just how much is there and how much of a game-changer such a wealth of material is, but it's also the only way we are ever going to be able to determine what the actual reason for the hold-up is.

—Howie alluded to several key points in the process where he had to intercede on the project's behalf, but he hasn't provided us with any details about what the issues were at those points in time. Rather than specify that, he's chosen to tell us that he was under the impression that those hurdles were overcome and that there had been signoff from all relevant parties. (Someone correct me if I have that wrong, please.) I think he should make a few more of those in-process details available in the hopes that it might at least tell us more about what may be hanging things up.

I would think that this can be done without mentioning specific names, since that seems to be the piece of info with the potential to blow the entire thing up to a point of permanent disrepair.

The upshot is that we need as much specificity as possible coming from a grassroots effort of this type. If that is supplied, then this info can be used to get the rock media involved, which is the key thing that can move the needle.

So, to sum up, it means we really need: the track listing for the box set out there in public view, and a generalized idea of what the earlier objections and impediments to the set were over the course of the project’s inception and development.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 18, 2020, 10:13:33 AM
Has anyone heard from Howie of Stebbins about if anyone at BRI cares about the petition at change.org.  It looks like it is starting to stall at 640 signatures.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 18, 2020, 11:37:48 AM
The idea that the Feel Flows box would change the public perception of who the Beach Boys are and what they represent has me thinking, how would Mike and Bruce have to respond to this? Would it mean a return to guru robes for Mike (and showing his bald head on stage)? Would all the surfing, cars, girls songs be replaced with the likes of Be Still, Meant For You, Country Air, Wake the World, All I Wanna Do, This Whole World, Long Promised Road, All This is That, and the full California Saga? Would Bruce actually sit at a grand piano, in long pants, playing audible parts?
No more beach balls in the crowds; pass the incense and peppermints instead.
No more state fair and Seaworld gigs; instead, they would play colleges and coffee houses.
Instead of selling t-shirts and baseball caps, the souvenir stand would feature organic vege-tables, herbal supplements, and copies of Whole Earth News.


And tubes of Mama Says organic toothpaste. Also, the concert stage could be a replica of the Radiant Radish.
I love it! 8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 18, 2020, 12:29:17 PM
Has anyone heard from Howie of Stebbins about if anyone at BRI cares about the petition at change.org.  It looks like it is starting to stall at 640 signatures.

Whatever the outcome, there are now over 600 fans saying they will buy this set if and when it would come out, and that's only those who signed this petition. How many more who didn't sign feel the same way? It's good to allow fans to have a voice in the process and show how interested they are in a product like this.

What I still do not understand is why were there efforts to criticize and label fans who support releasing this as entitled or worse, suggest doing anything like this is pointless, try to impugn or lessen Howie's enthusiasm for getting the set to the fans, or even more of a mystery why there are *still* people suggesting the set doesn't exist after all that has been said by band members and those who have been working on it? I seriously don't understand why there is a negative pushback on something which does exist and which would be nothing but POSITIVE for the fans and the band.

And here a lot of us thought something like this would be a big win all around, and bring the fan base together for once when we all need it. I guess the implied message in the negative is f*** that, just move on. Sad.

I could say more but I won't. For once.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 18, 2020, 04:04:57 PM
I just can't see the petition gaining much more traction unless someone higher up in these organizations promotes the thing. Part of me hopes that the deafening silence coming from any of the camps right now is a sign that talks are happening. Perhaps the petition has already put pressure on whoever is blocking this thing.

If it's Mike blocking the set I would hope that Brian (whose camp didn't hesitate at all to call Mike out for the pathetic trophy hunting gig) would do whatever he could to get this set released (ie go to Rolling Stone, share the petition on social media).

If it's Brian blocking the set I would hope that Mike would spend a couple minutes talking about yet another horrible mistake a Wilson brother made ("And Brian blocking this set is just another example of bad decisions that Brian has made - have I ever told you about the hard drugs he used to use??").

Or I wish that Al would innocently spill the beans about whatever is holding this thing up.

Thank you to the person who created the petition in the first place, and thanks to all of you who signed and shared it. Hopefully some waves will be made and this thing will see a positive outcome.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 18, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
It certainly is a bizarre situation when fans are excited about buying an archival Beach Boys product and this is the response. Nothing but silence. I think the petition at least showed that there is a viable interest from the fan base in buying this. I don't know what other upcoming products from BRI or the band in general have that interest, especially for an expensive, deluxe edition type of set. It surely hasn't been the touring, since Brian and Al called their whole year off (wisely), Mike keeps plugging away at one-night-stand gigs in the middle of the US for some reason, and the greatest hits downloads that have always sold and will never not sell are always on the market as they've been for decades. Mike's recent comments on that podcast were definitely not encouraging, in fact they bordered on the absurd when he said he wasn't sure what is in the vault.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on August 19, 2020, 07:10:58 AM
Don M. makes the most sensible point above. Get the rock press interested in the story. I could see that influencing the project favorably. Free press and public attention are two things the band loves. That is a smart strategy, and more likely to get a response than letters, posts, and a petition aimed at the band itself. Think of it the same way you would if you were going after a big corporation or a politician. They ignore you until the press gets involved. The press are harder to ignore.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 19, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Don M. makes the most sensible point above. Get the rock press interested in the story. I could see that influencing the project favorably. Free press and public attention are two things the band loves. That is a smart strategy, and more likely to get a response than letters, posts, and a petition aimed at the band itself. Think of it the same way you would if you were going after a big corporation or a politician. They ignore you until the press gets involved. The press are harder to ignore.

No doubt - This isn't the only issue with this band that some wider reporting in the music press would have been welcome. But the issue is also that it's "this band", and in the case of the box set there is a probably a very small handful of people who know what's going on, and if one of them becomes the source for a press report on the box set being held up, you could probably cue the exit music for them.

And I'd also think back to probably the last time the Beach Boys name got picked up by the international press outside of the music outlets, which was the trophy hunting gig Mike played earlier this year. The petition was the catalyst for getting the attention on the event itself by the larger news outlets, aided by the political overtones of the event. Had there not been thousands signing it originally, which led to people in the band signing it too, there would have been no coverage. The press, music or traditional, will not run with a story if there is no interest in that story, or if people are not talking about it in some way. If it's a petition started by fans in Beach Boys fan communities that has signatures to back up the interest in an archival release, it shows editors that there is something happening here and there is an interest. If someone randomly drops a tip that a Beach Boys box set is the topic of conversation, it would help to see that people are actively talking about it and also wondering what's going on.

I was talking with someone maybe 5-6 years ago who booked bands for a well-known venue in the Northeast. He said when a band sends promo material to be considered for a booking, one of the main factors they looked at was how many fans and followers they had on social media, and how many would potentially turn out to the venues to see the band. If a band had a fantastic EP or demo and only 200 followers online, and another band had a lesser recording yet had 7000 followers within a 100 mile radius of the venue, they'd first go with the group that had more fans/followers because there was a demonstrated interest and following for the group who would buy tickets and buy the concessions at a show. It's practically the same with news outlets choosing which stories to pick up. They'll run the story which they know people will click on and generate ad revenue for their parent company, and if they see groups of BB's fans actively involved in an issue, it will be more likely to run.   


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 19, 2020, 12:13:53 PM
As for the "cue the exit music" caveat for those with more direct involvement with the band (and its highly individualistic individuals!)...

--While that very well may be true, I would counter with the proposition that this is the "hill to die on" when it comes to the band, its music, and its legacy. While I am probably among the greatest fans of "Mess of Help to Stand Alone" you'll ever find, reports from those in the know suggest that there is no version of the tune with the original "Beatrice" lyrics forthcoming from the vaults, and the pickings become progressively leaner from that point on ("Rooftop Harry" die-hards notwithstanding).

So if one or the other of those insider folks does decide to "go rogue" at this moment, they'd be picking the best possible point to sacrifice that future access--so long as the package as characterized by Howie is released more or less intact.

Clearly FEEL FLOWS represents the last and best chance to give the Beach Boys their most encompassing historical perspective, showcasing the collective depth and range of their talents. For those who believe that this is the best and most warranted course of action that the band could take to burnish their legacy and gain points for opening one more window into the ferment of their creative and personal lives at that time, it's an action that has a great deal of principle behind it despite any "corporate repercussions."

Surely there must be enough folks privy to that track listing to create "plausible deniability", no?  :police:

The press could handle the story by referring to the supplier of the info as "sources close to those involved in the project" or some other such media dodge-ball phrase...

Should anyone protect their relationship over the prospect of being involved with a down-the-line box set release of MIU? With THIS box set still locked away? Huh?? Really???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Phlip on August 19, 2020, 12:26:20 PM
I wonder since there seemed to be a general consensus among the Beach Boys themselves that a Feel Flows box set was a good idea, that maybe the conflict/delay is simply about what the actual market is for such a release and the retail price they want to charge for it.

For example, if it is believed that this box set would have a somewhat limited market but at the same time would also have intense interest among those who do want to buy it, then maybe there is a push among some in BRI to jack up the retail price way beyond what you might expect it to cost based upon the retail price of previous historical releases like the Smile Sessions or some of the other Brother historical CD releases over the past few years.  

Or maybe some want to split up the box set into parts (including maybe a vinyl record that can be sold separately) to maximize whatever profit there is to be made from the project, and/or make all or part of it some kind of a high-end big bucks limited collector's release.  

I just find it hard to believe that any of the stakeholders would block the release for some stupid personal reason(s), especially if there is money to be made and what with the loss of touring revenue due to Covid-19.

I mean, you can only release a repackaging of Pet Sounds and Smile and Beach Boys Summer Hits so many times and then the market just isn't there. So a Feel Flows box set might be seen by some in BRI as the last big opportunity for the Beach Boys to make money on a new release. Because after that, I doubt that there will be a lot of interest in the 15 Big Ones Sessions or in an official release of Adult/Child or in a re-mix of M. I. U. or in 75 distinct and separate versions of "Kokomo" or in the 30th Anniversary release of Summer in Paradise.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 19, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
Is this all fallout from the trophy hunter gig? Did Mike ask for a bunch of freebie copies to hand out to the trophy hunters? Maybe he demanded that Donald Trump's liner notes not be expunged from the booklet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 19, 2020, 01:07:32 PM
This was addressed a couple weeks ago in the thread, but as far as I'm hearing, the trophy hunting gig situation has zero to do with the current "Feel Flows" situation.

I also don't think marketing or pricing issues or questions about the interest/marketability are at play. It was greenlit and *completed*; it's money and time spent at this stage, so the ideal thing for everybody would be to have the set released, and that investment can be recouped.

I've mentioned several times in previous posts that focusing too much on the *why* of the hold-up is kind of a non-starter. It's not going to be made public any time soon, if ever. Because of that, and because from everything I'm hearing the issues don't have anything to do with the *content* of the set, the best course is to convince them why releasing the set is a good idea.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 19, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
This was addressed a couple weeks ago in the thread, but as far as I'm hearing, the trophy hunting gig situation has zero to do with the current "Feel Flows" situation.

I also don't think marketing or pricing issues or questions about the interest/marketability are at play. It was greenlit and *completed*; it's money and time spent at this stage, so the ideal thing for everybody would be to have the set released, and that investment can be recouped.

I've mentioned several times in previous posts that focusing too much on the *why* of the hold-up is kind of a non-starter. It's not going to be made public any time soon, if ever. Because of that, and because from everything I'm hearing the issues don't have anything to do with the *content* of the set, the best course is to convince them why releasing the set is a good idea.

Have you heard if the petition has helped at all?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 19, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
This was addressed a couple weeks ago in the thread, but as far as I'm hearing, the trophy hunting gig situation has zero to do with the current "Feel Flows" situation.

I also don't think marketing or pricing issues or questions about the interest/marketability are at play. It was greenlit and *completed*; it's money and time spent at this stage, so the ideal thing for everybody would be to have the set released, and that investment can be recouped.

I've mentioned several times in previous posts that focusing too much on the *why* of the hold-up is kind of a non-starter. It's not going to be made public any time soon, if ever. Because of that, and because from everything I'm hearing the issues don't have anything to do with the *content* of the set, the best course is to convince them why releasing the set is a good idea.

Have you heard if the petition has helped at all?

All I can say at the moment is that none of it hurts.

People talking about it here and on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and all of that certainly can't hurt either.

ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

The discussion here is very important.

I think the main thing is that those in a position to get this set in our hands need to know that we know about it, and that we know that it's done and ready to go and needs to be released. They need to know that we know that they know. And so on.

We're still doing everything we can to keep the wheels turning on this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jwoverho on August 19, 2020, 09:56:54 PM
I just signed the petition and donated some extra money to spread the word.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 19, 2020, 10:06:53 PM
Listening to that Nate Ruess interview about working with Brian Wilson just got me thinking, what if a celebrity who was a fan of the band did a tweet about this box set. Or what if they appeared on a podcast or a talk show or whatever is a possible means of an interview during the pandemic, and mentioned it? Not only  mentioned it, but did some advocating for why it might not be coming out, and perhaps even postulated the reasons?

Obviously it would take somebody who is a big enough fan of the band to want to do it, but I imagine there might be some celebrities who are. Maybe that would cause a news outlet to pick it up and start trying to spread the word some more that way?

Maybe the way this FF story needs to be spun is that we as fans just cannot stand for this project be another 1967 SMiLE non-release/shelving. Outside of Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy, there are a few fanbases who have been subject to as much waiting for holy Grail type of projects for years and years and years, only to have our hopes thwarted so many times. Maybe a writer would like to write about how this could be history repeating itself.

I think that's part of why this situation is so bothersome, because it feels like déjà vu. 1960s, 2000s, same as it ever was. And then we think about how Brian had a follow up to TWGMTR which he also shelved because the reunion imploded. And perhaps there are some similar reasons behind what's going on here compared to what happened decades earlier with this band. I'm convinced the issues that plagued this band at the beginning have mutated and are still manifesting themselves in incredibly unhealthy ways 60 years later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 20, 2020, 05:18:10 AM
Regarding that Mike Love interview, I want to reiterate a point that some seem to be getting confused about:

Darren Paltrowitz:
"The last time I interviewed you was two to three years ago, and during that interview you got a phone call from Jeffrey Foskett who had just discovered some kind of an archival release that you were thinking of putting out, and one thing that we haven't discussed is how many great archival releases from you and from The Beach Boys in the last three or four years. Is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

I don't think anyone is seriously surprised that Mike doesn't know the full extent of what is in the vaults. It's more that the words "archival release" were used twice in the sentence prior to the question and Mike doesn't even acknowledge the vault material that he obviously knows is awaiting release right now (in the form of Feel Flows). I nor anyone else expect Mike to know that Al worked on some obscure song by himself in a studio at some point, but Mike indeed knows that there is vault material on Feel Flows that many fans "one day hope to hear" and yet he didn't say a word about it.

Again, if his silence means that there are ongoing talks about the set, then I am completely happy with his silence. But don't be surprised when fans are outraged by Mike not acknowledging a completed set full of vault material that, as of last month, has no scheduled released date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 20, 2020, 05:33:35 AM
ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

I find it interesting that those who have aligned more closely with Mike Love in the past aren’t contributing to any sort of solution to the problem that Howie brought forth. “Big” names elsewhere (who closely associate with Mike) haven’t promoted any discussion about the set and certainly haven’t endorsed the petition.

While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.

This set could only make more Beach Boys fans. More beach boys fans = more possible subscribers to ESQ. Sharing a petition that casts no blame on any bandmembers, just merely points out that fans want to hear this music, could only help ESQ.

HeyJude, thanks so much for the update on everything.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 20, 2020, 12:29:04 PM
This set has a Carl Wilson connection, but I'm really posting it to say . . .


https://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/tom-petty-wildflowers-all-the-rest-box-set-details-preorder/


Now that's how you release a box set!! :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on August 20, 2020, 04:05:08 PM

While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.


I totally agree - this is the end of a fine period where all members are skilled contributors. Going forward there is no doubt great material yet to be released that would be devoured by fans but the Feel Flows set would mark a real seminal point in the band's career. It would be such a shame were it not to see a worthy release...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 21, 2020, 07:50:45 AM
ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

I find it interesting that those who have aligned more closely with Mike Love in the past aren’t contributing to any sort of solution to the problem that Howie brought forth. “Big” names elsewhere (who closely associate with Mike) haven’t promoted any discussion about the set and certainly haven’t endorsed the petition.

While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.

This set could only make more Beach Boys fans. More beach boys fans = more possible subscribers to ESQ. Sharing a petition that casts no blame on any bandmembers, just merely points out that fans want to hear this music, could only help ESQ.

HeyJude, thanks so much for the update on everything.

I don't understand the whole scene to be honest. It's a petition directed at all parties with no malice or finger-pointing, and the outcome fans are asking for - even if it's just a scheduled or preliminary release date so fans know it's on the schedule - would be a win/win situation for all involved. Instead there is a combination of total silence, some are labeling fans "entitled" in a derogatory way, and others telling fans it's pointless to do such a thing, and Mike deflects a question about archival material in an interview after he signed off on doing this archival set. Yet no alternative is offered for fans who want to let all those parties know they'd want and buy such a set. And yes, if more fans not as invested get into this era of the band through a set like this, I'd think more would buy or subscribe to fan publications like ESQ. Again, a win/win all around. Instead we have the scene where we are now.

I truly don't get it. I guess the best thing to do is keep talking about it? What a debacle.

The petition is up to 701, here's the link if anyone still wants to sign it or forward it to others who would be interested:

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: El Jefe on August 21, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
Long-time lurker, first-time poster:

Unlike many of y'all, I don't have any inside connections to the Beach Boys. I never had the honor of getting yelled at by Dr. Landy, and I couldn't pick Rocky Pamplin out of a lineup. I'm just an obsessive weirdo with upwards of $100 burning a hole in my pocket, and I want to spend it on the Feel Flows box set, even if the only new material turns out to be, I don't know, three seconds of Carl saying that he broke a string.

My hunch is that the best way to shake this thing loose is to convince the right people that they can make money off of it. (I don't mean that as a criticism! Fancy box sets are a commercial endeavor, and I doubt they'd exist if not for avarice.) But even if my hunch is correct, I don't know who the right people are, or how to convince them that there's a market.

Here's my question: What's the most effective thing I can do to help? Who needs to hear that us random fans want to buy this thing, and what's the best way to get that message across? I've signed the petition, and I'm glad it's there, but what now? Should I be writing letters to someone at Capitol, and if so, who? Is there some other specific action that I can take to help?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on August 21, 2020, 11:00:30 AM
Nice first post!

Is there a specific entity we can barrage with emails?  I signed the petition; but maybe we can hit it another way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 21, 2020, 11:29:23 AM
Suppose that we assume a hypothetical price point for what this box might cost. Let's even guess on the higher end. And we get a pledge of 700 or however many people there are (just thus far) to agree to purchase that box set at that price.

Then we add up that hypothetical dollar amount of money, and state what that money would be, which of course would just be a bare minimum amount of money that the record company would be making, I'm sure it would sell far more copies than that.

And then suppose a wealthy member of this board, or a celebrity who is a big fan of the band agrees to match or even double that amount of money as a donation to a pandemic relief charity once the box is released. Could something like that get online traction?

Why would the band or the record company want to turn down money with a dollar amount dangling right before their eyes, and turn down a charity donation of that sort? Neither are good optics.

To me, the most interesting story to write about is that a band has fans who are passionate enough to perhaps do something as crazy as that. And that a band itself would be as crazy to actually need something of that sort in order to maybe, just maybe get great music released. It's all completely batshit crazy. But maybe that crazy odd dysfunction is the story that would cause a writer to want to write about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 21, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
Writing letters to Capitol would likely do nothing. Jon Stebbins wrote in this very thread that even the record label wants this set released - they are probably salivating at the $$$ that would be flowing in. If we flooded Capitol with letters saying "We want this set released!" they would probably sadly mutter to themselves "So do we."

And then suppose a wealthy member of this board, or a celebrity who is a big fan of the band agrees to match or even double that amount of money as a donation to a pandemic relief charity once the box is released.

While I'm not in the crowd that thinks Mike playing open air gigs is going to lead to a mass of deaths, I can also shake my head thinking about Beach Boys fans raising money (to get a Beach Boys box set released) to help give aid to people who could have gotten sick due to going to a Beach Boys concert. This band never fails to surprise me.

I think Mike has a net worth of $80 million, Brian has a net worth of $120 million, Al $40 million. These figures could be total BS, and of course this isn't money these guys have in the bank anyways. But it gives you a general idea that these guys aren't even close to being homeless (which is why I find the theory that Brian is forced to tour to make money hilarious, but I digress). Extorting the fans for charity money during a time of financial stress so we can get a boxset released is bad optics for the band...especially when Mike is under fire for playing gigs during COVID and possibly adding to the COVID count.

Anyways, I really wish that someone with a big name associated with the band (Darian, Jason Fine, Brian Wilson himself) would publicly speak out about this.

Keep in mind that a while back Mark Linett apparently said that this set was scheduled to release this Fall. Howie Edelson comes on here last month and says that this set currently has to scheduled release date. This is the time to be doing something. I don't know how much more us fans can do. Actually 702 people signing a petition is a pretty good number, someone who is able to should email Jason Fine with that petition. I wonder if he could get an article written about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 21, 2020, 02:20:15 PM
One aspect of this set that is not really being talked about is the impetus that it could have towards future similar sets in future.

I could imagine a situation where over the next decade we see sort of "twofers on steroids" for the 70s era albums.

So you could see one for So Tough/Holland, another for In Concert (including the full original 1 disc version), one for 15 Big Ones - it would support a 3 disc set, I would think, as would Love You. And then MIU/L.A. Light Album, and KTSA/The Beach Boys. The point is, in ten years time their could be a really special legacy of truly great physical releases, filled out by annual digital only live archive releases as well, but it has to start somewhere - and if this one isn't released, how would you go getting people to put the work into any future release, when there's the very real prospect that someone with enough power to put the kibosh on them won't hesitate to do so.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 21, 2020, 02:26:00 PM
thetojo, I've been thinking about that as well. If this box set isn't released, then I think that's it for copyright extension box sets. Selling these projects as physical releases isn't easy, and that's with the full support of the band. Even any future digital-only releases will probably be compromised.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 21, 2020, 02:56:14 PM
It just dawned on me that seeing as this box that is the first one that has material from the post Capitol years (although I guess there would be some late Capitol era stuff in it also?), perhaps it's not a coincidence that this is the first of these copyright extension sets to have an issue threatening its release. Maybe that could somehow be more than a coincidence.

If it is somehow a member of this band holding out for more money/revenue sharing, could that be the cause of it?

What comes to mind is how a band like Def Leppard for years refused to let their albums be available on streaming platforms, they were stubbornly trying to get a bigger piece of the pie then they felt was being offered to them. So for a number of years, on Spotify, the only versions of some of their songs you could hear were modern day re-recordings (that were actually surprisingly good) which the band owned the rights to and could profit off of in a greater manner that wouldn't have been possible with the revenue sharing for the original recordings. Eventually an agreement was made, and now the entire catalog is there on Spotify and other platforms, but it took years.

Although if it was just as simple as being *solely* this, maybe Mike would have mentioned it in that interview instead of sidestepping the vault material entirely, so maybe I'm wrong. Just throwing ideas out there.

Also, it just dawned on me that perhaps there are disputes over the songwriting credits and percentages on some of the songs. Could that be it?

I would be surprised if throughout this thread, the real reasons haven't been at least partly identified. I think it's got to be some combination of things that have been spoken about here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 21, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 21, 2020, 03:40:24 PM
CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.

How many outside writers (who are not members of the band) do we know were possibly connected to writing songs from this era? At least in terms of who is known?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on August 21, 2020, 06:58:06 PM
Well, the guy who co wrote It's About Time.  (Burchman) The guy who helped Al write Looking at Tomorrow.  (Winfrey?)  Joe Knott.  Shapiro.  Lieber and Stoller.  Jakobson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on August 21, 2020, 07:44:41 PM
Just playing Devin's advocate, but how would letters not help but a petition would?  At least a letter is directly showing up at the target.  IDK.  Just spitballing here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on August 21, 2020, 11:03:21 PM
Fifty years ago today I bought what quickly became my favorite album of all time, and remains so to this day. It’s by the Beach Boys and its title is Sunflower.

So I have a request today for the members of BRI - Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl’s estate. Please get together and come to a quick agreement to get the Feel Flows box set released in time for the 2020 Holiday season.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 22, 2020, 01:15:01 AM
Well, the guy who co wrote It's About Time.  (Burchman) The guy who helped Al write Looking at Tomorrow.  (Winfrey?)  Joe Knott.  Shapiro.  Lieber and Stoller.  Jakobson.

There was an article a while back about Bob Burchman, the it's about time guy. Was certainly an interesting insight into how the band may treat outside writers. Maybe some are asking for a bigger cut now or felt they were treated unfairly/illegally. Found it here - https://medium.com/@JPRobinson/the-forgotten-song-that-made-the-beach-boys-countercultural-2171d70b94e8


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on August 22, 2020, 08:58:35 AM
CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 22, 2020, 09:17:40 AM
CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.

Thanks, Jon. I know all of us here greatly appreciate you and Howie telling us what you can. You had mentioned last month that thing aren’t looking great regarding the problems being worked out...has this outlook changed for the better since you posted that?

Thanks again for coming here and posting.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on August 22, 2020, 11:39:16 AM
Yeah, but why sit and wait and accept we don't know anything in silence, when we can speculate randomly for another 30 or 40 pages.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 22, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
Yeah, but why sit and wait and accept we don't know anything in silence, when we can speculate randomly for another 30 or 40 pages.

Well, it was speculation in this thread that led Howie to clear up the confusion with his informative post(s)...which is why we know a lot more about the set now. I’m not saying my theories or other theories are fruitful to getting us the set (because they aren’t), but previous theories/speculation led to important information being dropped. While I completely get and respect what Jon is saying (and HeyJude also tried to point this out previously), I also think that some speculation can lead to good things (which has already been proven true in this very thread).

That being said, I want to thank all the lurkers who decided to make accounts here to help add their voices to the mix. Expressing interest in this set is definitely far more helpful than all the speculation (which I am very guilty of being a part of). If anything is going to get this set released it will be the simple fact that a lot of good fans want to hear this great music. Hopefully that message is well received by the people who have the power to give this set the green light.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 22, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 22, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Jerry Schilling, yes


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on August 22, 2020, 05:57:58 PM
I signed the petition few days ago and posted it on my Facebook page.

Has anyone over at EH posted a link to the petition?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JakeH on August 22, 2020, 06:57:21 PM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 22, 2020, 07:32:33 PM
^ Great thoughts.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 22, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
Disagree that there is no “group”. “The Beach Boys” (not Mike’s touring band) still exist.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on August 23, 2020, 01:15:15 AM
Disagree that there is no “group”. “The Beach Boys” (not Mike’s touring band) still exist.

Sure, but the "Beach Boys" touring act isn't "the group."  If the touring act went into the studio right now and cut an album, could it be released as a "Beach Boys" album?   The answer to that is an obvious "no." No matter how good or polished such an album was, it could never be a "Beach Boys" album because (1) the Brother Record shareholders other than ML would likely put the kibosh on such a project; and (2) critics and fans would overwhelmingly reject such a release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 23, 2020, 02:23:54 AM
I’ll write this again since I don’t think I got a reply last time. If they miss the 50 year copyright extension deadline, couldn’t the label just release the stuff anyways then since Mike, al, Bruce and Brian don’t own the copyright anymore?
Isn’t that the reason behind all of these 50 year copyright extension sets?

Or am I completely wrong here?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 23, 2020, 08:25:12 AM
This might come off as the most stupid post I've ever made here, but I really don't understand the point of copywriting. I mean, if something slips into the public domain but the label still owns the masters, couldn't they just release it anyway?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 23, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.

I greatly fear that this post has an element of truth and may point somewhat to what's going on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 23, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.

I greatly fear that this post has an element of truth and may point somewhat to what's going on.


But would a "Feel Flows" box set be any less representative of the brand name "Beach Boys" than seeing the touring Beach Boys play Mike's solo releases like "This Too Shall Pass" over actual Beach Boys songs? On one hand the suggestion is the 1970-1972 era doesn't represent what the brand identity is in 2020, yet on the other neither do Mike's solo releases which are featured at every Beach Boys concert.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 23, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
But would a "Feel Flows" box set be any less representative of the brand name "Beach Boys" than seeing the touring Beach Boys play Mike's solo releases like "This Too Shall Pass" over actual Beach Boys songs? On one hand the suggestion is the 1970-1972 era doesn't represent what the brand identity is in 2020, yet on the other neither do Mike's solo releases which are featured at every Beach Boys concert.

I understand your logic here, but can definitely think of a key player who would not.

But the weird thing about this whole scenario (that the Feel Flows set is simply too 'off-brand' for the Beach Boys, which is putting it in jeopardy) is that the project was approved in the first place by all the members. Just curious, was the project *always* going to be the scale it is currently, i.e. a 5CD box set?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 23, 2020, 12:38:35 PM
I’ll write this again since I don’t think I got a reply last time. If they miss the 50 year copyright extension deadline, couldn’t the label just release the stuff anyways then since Mike, al, Bruce and Brian don’t own the copyright anymore?
Isn’t that the reason behind all of these 50 year copyright extension sets?

Or am I completely wrong here?

I don’t know these things either, however the 3 songs released Dec 27 last year (I’m Going Your Way) on Spotify apparently were enough to cover 1969 releases I think someone wrote at the time. I would assume a few songs released in the same way before this year is out will cover 1970.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 23, 2020, 01:15:07 PM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.

I greatly fear that this post has an element of truth and may point somewhat to what's going on.


But would a "Feel Flows" box set be any less representative of the brand name "Beach Boys" than seeing the touring Beach Boys play Mike's solo releases like "This Too Shall Pass" over actual Beach Boys songs? On one hand the suggestion is the 1970-1972 era doesn't represent what the brand identity is in 2020, yet on the other neither do Mike's solo releases which are featured at every Beach Boys concert.

Still, if that theory is true, it would be the ultimate example of the "don't f*** with the formula" ideology being completely accurate in terms of detriment to the artistic output of this band, despite denials for decades. The slight addendum (as GF points out that  "This Too Shall Pass" is being peddled by Mike at BBs shows) being Mike effectively saying "don't f*** with the formula, unless it's in a cheesy manner that I see fit, and that benefits my personal version of the legacy".

Oh how I hope this is not true but it seems so logical as to be hard to fathom it's not at least partly true. ??? I sincerely hope I am completely wrong and that it's an easier issue to overcome then the stubborn whims of a vengeful, bitter old coot. I have no idea how one overcomes that.  

I still feel it's hard to fathom that the real reason(s) haven't been more less approximated in various user posts throughout the course of this thread somewhere. What other possible reasons could it be other than somewhere in the vicinity of what's been speculated?  But yes, I understand that the focus should be at convincing the band and powers that be that this set's release would be a good move for the brand and that speculation is perhaps pointless. Yet I still must ponder, how does a fanbase best help convince someone (or multiple someones) that the set would be good for their legacy if they are completely in the dark as to why in the first place a miguided notion is causing the holdup/non-release to begin with?  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 23, 2020, 02:20:41 PM
I’ll write this again since I don’t think I got a reply last time. If they miss the 50 year copyright extension deadline, couldn’t the label just release the stuff anyways then since Mike, al, Bruce and Brian don’t own the copyright anymore?
Isn’t that the reason behind all of these 50 year copyright extension sets?

Or am I completely wrong here?

That is a per-song thing.
So any song, previously unreleased in any form, would fall within what you say.
Any never before heard song could be released.

So things like alternate mixes, instrumental tracks, alternate takes, alternate versions, vocals only versions, session excerpts etc. are not fair game.

While I'm hopeful that there is significant content that would be out of copyright as you say, the majority of the content would not be out of copyright.

This also begs the question, who would be in a position to actually leak the tracks. My estimation is that the list of names would be so short that they simply could not be leaked. So regardless of the copyright position, I don't believe your scenario could play out in any event!

Live recordings are z different ball-game, but again, the high quality recordings aren't likely to just leak simply because the Earth finishes another orbit of the Sun, someone with access has to actually leak them. Otherwise it's just another rehashed bootleg.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 23, 2020, 02:39:07 PM
Just wanted to say to JakeH, great post above. Very thoughtful.

However I disagree, not with the historical interpretation, but with the likelihood that the name/branding issue is the hang up.

Howie says he consulted the relevant parties along the way - settling the tracklist would have been part of that.

This leads me to surmise that something changed around the first few months of this year, say January to March sometime, which caused one or more parties to have a change of heart. To me that suggests it comes down to a personal interaction which happened or a public position which changed at that time.

That, from memory, was around the time that one of the licensors of The Beach Boys name made a public statement regarding the appropriate use of the name against the wishes of the licensee. Right or wrong, I doubt that any such condition on the use of the name was contained in the licensing agreement.
Just sayin'.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 23, 2020, 03:15:45 PM
Just wanted to say to JakeH, great post above. Very thoughtful.

However I disagree, not with the historical interpretation, but with the likelihood that the name/branding issue is the hang up.

Howie says he consulted the relevant parties along the way - settling the tracklist would have been part of that.

This leads me to surmise that something changed around the first few months of this year, say January to March sometime, which caused one or more parties to have a change of heart. To me that suggests it comes down to a personal interaction which happened or a public position which changed at that time.

That, from memory, was around the time that one of the licensors of The Beach Boys name made a public statement regarding the appropriate use of the name against the wishes of the licensee. Right or wrong, I doubt that any such condition on the use of the name was contained in the licensing agreement.
Just sayin'.

Yep. I think Mikey was publicity humilated by Brian's support of the anti-hunting show petition, and now this is his revenge. Nobody puts Mikey in a corner. What a capper on a career legacy.

If Mike wants unchecked power (duh) and to never under any circumstances be questioned about any show or action he ever plays/does under the band name from here on out, in exchange for the FF release, then I say Brian and everybody should give it to him, if it means future archival releases will squeak by without issue. Let Mike play an outhouse cleaning factory, a Trump campaign event, pro-hunting shows even his most ardent defenders are disgusted by -  whatever nonsense garbage he wants to tarnish the brand with, let him do it without question.

Who cares anymore. It's worth it if releases it like this will be held in limbo. I think few fans would argue that. Let the Salieri have his bottle.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 23, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Imagine if, ten years from now, Mike Love is the lone living band member. Think about how he would then be able to further twist the band’s history to enhance his own importance without opposition. It makes me nauseous.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on August 23, 2020, 05:19:16 PM
Jesus, mtaber…. :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JakeH on August 23, 2020, 07:33:41 PM

However I disagree, not with the historical interpretation, but with the likelihood that the name/branding issue is the hang up.

Yes - My intention was really only to offer a reminder of a particular sticky issue/problem that is always present, either in the background or foreground; it was, for example, one of the motivating factors behind Mike's lawsuit over Brian Wilson Presents Smile promotional material, circa 2004 - the allegedly unauthorized use of the words "Beach Boys" in the alleged promotion of non-Beach Boys music; music that Mike may not have wanted the Beach Boys' name associated with. (that was not the only reason for the lawsuit.)  Still, the image/brand issue is not necessarily the cause of anything going on here today.  However, the outcome of a canceled box set from this particular era of the group's history just so happens to have "branding" implications, even if they are just incidental, and it just so happens that this is occurring at a time when the touring Beach Boys are constrained in their ability to promote their version of the Beach Boys in the way they have done for decades.  It could easily all just be coincidental.

Imagine if, ten years from now, Mike Love is the lone living band member. Think about how he would then be able to further twist the band’s history to enhance his own importance without opposition. It makes me nauseous.

I wouldn't worry about it.  Really, the more interesting hypothetical is what would have occurred if Brian Wilson had died in the late '60s, mid-70s or early '80s. 

In any event, how much is Mike really "twisting" history?  Before bashing him, it should be remembered that his preferred conception of the Beach Boys is one that the public has favored for most, if not all, of the group's history.  This was what secured their initial popularity in 1963 and 64... the response to Pet Sounds was muted... Sunflower bombed, Friends bombed, Surf's Up did okay (probably because the words "Surf's Up" got people interested again), and the popularity of Endless Summer is further proof that the public wants fun in the sun.  The Beach Boys were filling stadiums in the mid '70s because of surfing-California-happy; and if Brian was honored during the "Brian is Back" promotional scheme in 1976, it was only because he was held up as the writer of "Fun Fun Fun," "California Girls" and "Little Deuce Coupe", not because of Pet Sounds, "Til I Die," "Day In the Life of a Tree," "This Whole World," let alone Smile, which is his greatest achievement.  In 1988, the public wasn't interested in what Brian had to say with "Love and Mercy" - they wanted "Kokomo."  If a person bought tickets to the 2012 reunion tour then that person is, arguably, a fan of Mike's Beach Boys concept.     

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 23, 2020, 09:04:00 PM
If a person bought tickets to the 2012 reunion tour then that person is, arguably, a fan of Mike's Beach Boys concept. 

Hey Jake, your post was a great read, but I do have to ask about this part. Is this your opinion or what you think Mike thinks? Cuz I mean, though these weren't arena shows, I think for the most part they were much bigger deals than Mike's faux-Beach Boys shows. And the reasoning for that, I assume, was that it was pushed as the return of Brian Wilson (and of course Al Jardine and then to a lesser extent David Marks).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on August 23, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
Imagine if, ten years from now, Mike Love is the lone living band member. Think about how he would then be able to further twist the band’s history to enhance his own importance without opposition. It makes me nauseous.

Hopefully, that won't happen. I can't think of a more insidious nightmare than Mike Love outliving Brian or Al.  :angry


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JakeH on August 23, 2020, 10:03:44 PM
If a person bought tickets to the 2012 reunion tour then that person is, arguably, a fan of Mike's Beach Boys concept. 

Hey Jake, your post was a great read, but I do have to ask about this part. Is this your opinion or what you think Mike thinks? Cuz I mean, though these weren't arena shows, I think for the most part they were much bigger deals than Mike's faux-Beach Boys shows. And the reasoning for that, I assume, was that it was pushed as the return of Brian Wilson (and of course Al Jardine and then to a lesser extent David Marks).

My opinion only, because in my opinion, if Mike is on stage, it is his show, no matter who else is there.  The same cannot be said for Brian, due to his receding presence on stage.  Brian can sit behind the piano at his own shows, with his own band, and not always do that much, and it is somehow still his show.  Not the case if Mike is out there.   Question: Was "Be True To Your School" performed during the reunion tour? (I don't know the answer to this). If it was, then that is evidence of what the show was about and where they were coming from.  Maybe I'm mistaken (I don't follow set lists), but I doubt Brian would ever perform that song on one of his own tours -has he ever performed it live? And was "Surf's Up" performed during the reunion tour? (Again, I don't know) Because if you've got a Beach Boys reunion tour on which "Surf's Up" is not performed and "Be True To Your School" is performed, then that's much closer to a Mike concept than a Brian-oriented concept.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 24, 2020, 03:11:26 AM
To be fair, 2012 was predominantly promoted as Celebration 50 or C50 for short. Yeah a reunion for the fans but a celebration of all things Beach Boys. In all honesty Mike has been as important to the live shows in the same way Brian has been important to the recorded material. Most here did see the C50 I suspect and I don’t recall any feelings of ill will against Mike’s stage performance or setlists, which gave each member plus several from Brian’s group the chance to shine vocally. From memory there were about 14 performers onstage of which only 4 were from Mikes group, so it was very Brian Wilson Band influenced.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 24, 2020, 05:27:40 AM
If a person bought tickets to the 2012 reunion tour then that person is, arguably, a fan of Mike's Beach Boys concept. 

Hey Jake, your post was a great read, but I do have to ask about this part. Is this your opinion or what you think Mike thinks? Cuz I mean, though these weren't arena shows, I think for the most part they were much bigger deals than Mike's faux-Beach Boys shows. And the reasoning for that, I assume, was that it was pushed as the return of Brian Wilson (and of course Al Jardine and then to a lesser extent David Marks).

My opinion only, because in my opinion, if Mike is on stage, it is his show, no matter who else is there.  The same cannot be said for Brian, due to his receding presence on stage.  Brian can sit behind the piano at his own shows, with his own band, and not always do that much, and it is somehow still his show.  Not the case if Mike is out there.   Question: Was "Be True To Your School" performed during the reunion tour? (I don't know the answer to this). If it was, then that is evidence of what the show was about and where they were coming from.  Maybe I'm mistaken (I don't follow set lists), but I doubt Brian would ever perform that song on one of his own tours -has he ever performed it live? And was "Surf's Up" performed during the reunion tour? (Again, I don't know) Because if you've got a Beach Boys reunion tour on which "Surf's Up" is not performed and "Be True To Your School" is performed, then that's much closer to a Mike concept than a Brian-oriented concept.

Brian and his band have played 'Be True To Your School' in concert.

'Surf's Up' was not performed during the C50, however 'Our Prayer', 'Friends', 'This Is That', 'Marcella', etc were on the setlist for the C50. So while 'Surf's Up' wasn't there, a slew of even more obscure Beach Boys songs were on the setlist (songs that Mike rarely goes near (if he ever has)).

And I will add that I caught one of the last Brian Wilson shows before COVID shut everything down, it was a Greatest Hits show, and it was very similar to a Mike Love setlist. Keep in mind, all those 60s hits that Mike gravitates toward were all helmed by Brian Wilson. So while I may not want the image of The Beach Boys to be that of palm trees and surf boards, I also have a huge admiration and love for that early 60s material (so hearing it in concert will elicit no complaints from me).

People who went to see the C50 weren't going there to see Mike Love and his concept of The Beach Boys. They were going there to hear songs from almost every Beach Boys album being performed by the remaining members of The Beach Boys and their incredibly talented backing band.

Imagine if, ten years from now, Mike Love is the lone living band member. Think about how he would then be able to further twist the band’s history to enhance his own importance without opposition. It makes me nauseous.

I wouldn't worry about it.  Really, the more interesting hypothetical is what would have occurred if Brian Wilson had died in the late '60s, mid-70s or early '80s. 


I would worry about it. 'The Beach Boys: An American Family' is a very real thing:

From the LA New Times (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=2371.25) (big thanks to Rocker for posting this):
Quote
And when that wasn't enough, [Mike Love] created a miniseries to claim his glory, presenting himself as the true vision behind the Beach Boys. The sad fact, though, is that the TV movie now exists forever as a strong public record -- in other words, to be believed as history by those who don't know any better.

"I didn't like the second part," Brian hesitantly says of the miniseries. "It wasn't really true to the way things were. I'd like to see another movie if it was done right. But I just sort of turned my back to this one, or my other cheek, or whatever you wanna call it. It was best just to ignore it because it really wasn't true to life."

Sahanaja remembers a rehearsal last summer when Wilson's wife and comanager, Melinda, was on the phone with a copy of the script in front of her, yelling at one of Love's representatives over certain questionable content. Brian was so upset that he asked for the keys to the car and sat in the parking lot until the incident was over. "It was so sad," says Sahanaja, "because Brian's happier now, trying to move on -- and yet this stuff from the past keeps popping up to haunt him. My theory is that Brian and Melinda were most disturbed, apart from all the Mike Love propaganda at Brian's expense, by a scene that depicted Dennis Wilson screaming, 'You never supported me as an artist,' at his older brother. From everything I've read and everyone I've ever talked to, Dennis was the one guy -- perhaps the only guy -- who always stood by Brian."\

In fact, the miniseries begins by portraying Dennis (who reportedly despised Love; legend has it that   the two were once involved in a fistfight onstage at the Greek Theatre in the '70s) and Love surfing together as best friends -- the two studs on the beach -- even though every Beach Boys history to date claims Dennis was the band's only surfer. The film then depicts it being Love's idea to form the band, and as the miniseries progresses, Mike comes up with nearly every brilliant idea -- from creating the titles Pet Sounds and Endless Summer to "jamming with John and Paul" in India -- as Brian rapidly becomes a slobbering, drug-crazed idiot. It's almost comical. 

Mike absolutely has a verified track record of trying to change history, especially post-80s/90s. The 2005 freebie CD lawsuit included a section where it was claimed that "For three decades, from 1967 onward, Brian Wilson laid in bed doing drugs and collecting checks." (paraphrasing but that's pretty much verbatim what was said). Doesn't mention that Brian wrote a lot of songs, doesn't mention that he toured with the band at times during those three decades. And within the last decade he compared Melinda to Landy (utterly sickening comparison when you realize how healthy, active, and engaged Brian is now compared to the days of being doped up to the point of having a stroke).

Mike absolutely tries to change history, even with Brian alive...if Brian passed on and Mike decided to continue this behavior, I shudder to think what we'd be hearing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 24, 2020, 08:25:57 AM
I’m hoping that Howie can somehow update us on the current situation without compromising himself. I know this is a very delicate topic for him, so will understand if he maintains silence for a while.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 24, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
I want to reiterate something I tried to be clear on earlier, but it seems to be misunderstood:

"The Beach Boys" as a group, entity, etc. still exist - NOT Mike's touring band.

The Beach Boys never truly disbanded, they just kind of stopped recording and playing shows together. If Jerry Schilling is still managing the group, this IMO suggests that there is a mediator on the scene to possibly help smooth things over if there is friction between factions within the group.

The "brand" angle, I think is something else entirely. While it may very well be part of why a member may or may not be comfortable w/ Feel Flows, any one member does not have the ability to decide how the group is branded - that is something determined by BRI and I assume people like Schilling. If I recall, there are terms regarding how "The Beach Boys" can be presented (wasn't there an issue about female singers, etc.?). Jerry Schilling was one of Carl's best friends, and we can be assured he has good intentions regarding the legacy of The Beach Boys.

So is BRI managed by someone other than Schilling? If there is no "group", and Schilling does not manage BRI or Mike's touring band, what does he manage exactly?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on August 24, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
He manages Brother Records, Inc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 24, 2020, 11:52:47 AM
Imagine if there was a super deluxe edition of Sgt Pepper and Ringo blocked it because he wanted the Beatles legacy to be based on Love you do instead. That’s what this feels like



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on August 24, 2020, 12:21:02 PM
He manages Brother Records, Inc.

Well that clears it up. I guess "group" and corporation are more or less one and the same, though I suppose one could argue Bruce (and David?) are part of the "group" but not BRI.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2020, 12:41:36 PM
I’ll write this again since I don’t think I got a reply last time. If they miss the 50 year copyright extension deadline, couldn’t the label just release the stuff anyways then since Mike, al, Bruce and Brian don’t own the copyright anymore?
Isn’t that the reason behind all of these 50 year copyright extension sets?

Or am I completely wrong here?

The theoretical idea behind "copyright extension" is to release something before it becomes 50 years old, thus protecting it from falling into the public domain.

In the case of "Feel Flows", BRI owns the rights to presumably most if not nearly everything on the set, as far as ownership of the tapes.

Additionally, I believe even on 60s material (which Capitol owns), they have to get BRI approval to release any previously unreleased material.

Even if Capitol owned the rights to something that fell into public domain, and even if nothing contractually precluded them from releasing the material, it wouldn't exactly be good for their relationship with the band to release something against their wishes.

None of that applies with "Feel Flows." BRI owns the tapes, and the label wants to release it.

Yes, BRI would need to release any unreleased song titles before the end of this year to protect 1970 material, which is why we're advocating for the full set so that we don't get some barfed out minimalist digital extension on December 31st.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
This might come off as the most stupid post I've ever made here, but I really don't understand the point of copywriting. I mean, if something slips into the public domain but the label still owns the masters, couldn't they just release it anyway?

They could release it anyway, but then if it's released as a "public domain" release, everybody else on the planet can copy it and "release" it themselves as well.

Capitol doesn't own the masters on "Feel Flows" for the most part, so this isn't at play in this case anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2020, 12:49:24 PM
Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.

While different band members have different levels of sensibilities when it comes to the different eras of the band, none of this is at play with "Feel Flows."

The release of four discs worth of 1967 studio material, and four discs of 1968-ish studio material, and then many discs of live material from 1967/68, would indicate that type of material being released isn't a problem.

It's true that the sensitivity seems to increase with later material, but again, as I've said before, BRI had to greenlight this project being compiled, and also as I've said, nothing to do with with band names or content of the set is the reason behind the delays.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2020, 12:58:47 PM
He manages Brother Records, Inc.

Well that clears it up. I guess "group" and corporation are more or less one and the same, though I suppose one could argue Bruce (and David?) are part of the "group" but not BRI.

The group mostly just exists the same way the Beatles exist, via a holding company.

It's easier to think of it as the band not existing, and a corporation existing where Mike, Al, Brian, and Carl's estate co-own the Beach Boys name and associated things. They license the name to Mike to tour with. They license other merchandise the same way Apple does (albeit on a much smaller scale of course), and so on.

Even when they *did* reunite for C50 in 2012, it wasn't really a case of the band then existing again. They didn't even run the C50 project through BRI. They created a new company, "50 Big Ones", with Mike, Brian, and Joe Thomas as bosses. They then employed everybody else, presumably in the process cutting a short-term deal vis-a-vis the BRI license for the "Beach Boys" name that allowed "50 Big Ones" to use the name for the reunion.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 24, 2020, 06:26:44 PM
If the group recently touring as the Beach Boys isn't the Beach Boys, then they should be arrested for impersonating them. If it is simply a tribute to the Beach Boys, then it should be promoted as such.
What do you get when you go to see a show put on by Mike's touring band? An evening of Beach Boys hits, along with a couple of newer things from Mike.
What do you get when you go to see a show put on by Brian's touring band? An evening of Beach Boys hits, plus Love and Mercy.
It's not like Brian is out there doing a show of the music he's written and created since his solo career started in 1987. He does the Beach Boy hits he wrote, produced, arranged; Al was one of the singers on those records. To my mind, then, that makes their show as much a Beach Boys show as Mike and Bruce's.
It's still my opinion that the Beach Boys name should have been retired when Carl died. Mike could tour under his own name, or "Mike Love of the Beach Boys", or "Mike Love's Endless Summer Beach Band", or "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band".
I still think of the classic Beach Boys lineup as having Mike, Al, Carl, Dennis and Brian (or Bruce). When two or more of those members are gone, it shouldn't be called The Beach Boys - because, as if often noted, I don't think we'd be too happy if Paul McCartney or Ringo Starr were going around calling their band The Beatles. But the Beatles are the exception. Look at The Who. The Temptations. Creedence Clearwater REVISITED. Herman's Hermits starring Peter Noone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on August 24, 2020, 11:39:20 PM
It's still my opinion that the Beach Boys name should have been retired when Carl died. Mike could tour under his own name, or "Mike Love of the Beach Boys", or "Mike Love's Endless Summer Beach Band", or "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band".

Without a doubt, Carl's passing in 1998 marked the end, both symbolically and literally, for the "Beach Boys" touring act being coterminous with "the group."  Carl was certainly the glue holding Mike and Al together.  And in terms of integrity, it would indeed have made sense to stop using the name for anything other than the 50th anniversary tour/album or things along those lines.  BUT, as the saying goes, money talks and b.s. walks.   Brian, Al, Justyn and Jonah get a nice cut from the revenue of the "Beach Boys" touring act, so they have an interest in (1) the continuation of that touring act and (2) maximizing the revenue therefrom.   "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band" doesn't bring home the bacon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on August 25, 2020, 12:50:15 AM
 Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 25, 2020, 02:22:29 PM
Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Basically after 31 Dec , if someone somehow leaks the material there’s no legal basis to take action. Or...they will be public domain songs at that point which means anybody can perform and/or record them and the original composer(s) don’t receive a dime for their hard earned work


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on August 26, 2020, 02:38:51 AM
Just throwing in my bump again to keep making some positive noise about this material! BRI, my wallet is ready!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 26, 2020, 07:05:13 AM
Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 26, 2020, 08:35:52 AM
Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

That is interesting. Apart from the petition, have fans been hitting up the band members' Facebook pages asking about the box set? The Facebook audience alone would be thousands of fans on board with the enthusiasm for this set. And as mentioned, something has to come out from this era before 2021 or they lose some of the music in a legal sense. Here's a box set ready to go and fans willing to buy it, guys! What's the hold up?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on August 26, 2020, 08:56:56 AM
Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

I am going to cautiously interpret this as promising news.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 26, 2020, 01:38:00 PM
Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

That is interesting. Apart from the petition, have fans been hitting up the band members' Facebook pages asking about the box set? The Facebook audience alone would be thousands of fans on board with the enthusiasm for this set. And as mentioned, something has to come out from this era before 2021 or they lose some of the music in a legal sense. Here's a box set ready to go and fans willing to buy it, guys! What's the hold up?



I did


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 26, 2020, 04:12:39 PM
Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Any recordings of unique compositions that haven't been released by the 50 year mark become public domain, regardless of whether they "circulate" or not.

So, if a band has 25 unique compositions recorded in 1970, and they don't release them by the end of 2020, and then decide to release those recordings in 2023, they are unprotected and anybody can take that 2023 release, copy it, and release it themselves, ostensibly legitimately. Or, if they don't release it by the end of 2020, and somehow it leaked before *or* after that date and "circulated", those recordings would also be unprotected.

If an artist has a unique song recording under strict lock and key that they don't ever want to release, and know with 100% certainty it will never leak or escape the vault, then they can still just sit on it.

You can see how this can turn into a scenario where it de-incentivizes artists from releasing *unprotected* work that hasn't leaked.

But really, "Feel Flows" is about more than just protecting copyrights. This is about showcasing this amazing, perception-altering (to the masses) material. If "copyright extension" helps to motivate these sets to happen, then I think we're all fine with that.

But the material on "Feel Flows" deserves more than only *some* of it being released digitally, with possibly generic boot-level "cover art."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 26, 2020, 04:34:25 PM
I'm guessing it's not a coincidence. And, as you might expect, there are a number of shout-outs to the #freefeelflows movement in the thread.

But I'm still of the opinion that the media needs to have the track listing slipped to them after Labor Day if there is no further movement on this by then.

And I would hope, since the set is named FEEL FLOWS, that they would see fit to release it on Carl's birthday.  ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 26, 2020, 06:14:42 PM
I'm guessing it's not a coincidence. And, as you might expect, there are a number of shout-outs to the #freefeelflows movement in the thread.

But I'm still of the opinion that the media needs to have the track listing slipped to them after Labor Day if there is no further movement on this by then.

And I would hope, since the set is named FEEL FLOWS, that they would see fit to release it on Carl's birthday.  ;)

Yes. How wonderful it would be if it were released on the birthday of either Carl or Dennis. Definitely.

If - and it's an if - a given bandmember is holding up this set for some sort of petty bargaining chip or for some sort of power/control ransom scenario, the amount of disrespect that would show to the children of the deceased members of this band is jaw-dropping and gross. The amount emotionally that this music being released could mean to the now adult children whose parents passed away far too early is incalculable.

Regardless of the specific reason, I would be really surprised if it isn't something petty and ridiculous, ultimately speaking. I have a feeling there are a heck of a lot of people and relatives who are close to the band, who must know the actual reasons why this holdup is going on, and are perhaps quietly seething right now at the possibility of this set turning to dust over some petty nonsense, but can't say anything about it publicly. That thought alone makes me sad beyond words.

Let's hope everything changes for the positive, and FFs gets out there - and the secrets of why this set has been held up can remain a secret for all I or most anyone cares, as long as the music is out there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 26, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
Let's hope everything changes for the positive, and FFs gets out there - and the secrets of why this set has been held up can remain a secret for all I or most anyone cares, as long as the music is out there.

Agreed + +


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 26, 2020, 10:39:00 PM
Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Any recordings of unique compositions that haven't been released by the 50 year mark become public domain, regardless of whether they "circulate" or not.

So, if a band has 25 unique compositions recorded in 1970, and they don't release them by the end of 2020, and then decide to release those recordings in 2023, they are unprotected and anybody can take that 2023 release, copy it, and release it themselves, ostensibly legitimately. Or, if they don't release it by the end of 2020, and somehow it leaked before *or* after that date and "circulated", those recordings would also be unprotected.

If an artist has a unique song recording under strict lock and key that they don't ever want to release, and know with 100% certainty it will never leak or escape the vault, then they can still just sit on it.

You can see how this can turn into a scenario where it de-incentivizes artists from releasing *unprotected* work that hasn't leaked.

But really, "Feel Flows" is about more than just protecting copyrights. This is about showcasing this amazing, perception-altering (to the masses) material. If "copyright extension" helps to motivate these sets to happen, then I think we're all fine with that.

But the material on "Feel Flows" deserves more than only *some* of it being released digitally, with possibly generic boot-level "cover art."


The idea of it comes to this sickens me. If it does end up in the public domain I would cover both albums and i would make any royalties that would’ve gone to Mike or Bruce would go to BrIan and Al.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 28, 2020, 04:56:10 AM
With people posting to social media about the box set, maybe we should include the link to the petition each time, so the Brian, Al, and Mike see that link, and it exposes others in the social media thread to the petition to potentially sign it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on August 28, 2020, 05:54:30 AM
There’s an update about the current status of this box?
Things will be worked/can be worked to get this released?
The box still have a chance to be released till the end of this year?
I’m asking it because I don’t know of the deadline to set a release date


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 28, 2020, 09:04:49 AM
I just read some articles about Cameron Crowe's film "Almost Famous" turning 20 this month.

Rolling Stone and other major publications have done big writeups about it because it's a big anniversary.

www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-features/almost-famous-20th-anniversary-cameron-crowe-interview-1041826/amp/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/movies/kate-hudson-billy-crudup-reunite-almost-famous/%3famp=true

Crowe is a BBs superfan it would seem. Plus, coincidentally, that movie specifically gave the song Feel Flows its biggest fame, arguably, in relatively modern times. Crowe and that film put the song FF *on the map* for a generation of music fans.

Maybe it's a gift from the heavens that the well-publicized anniversary of a film with a connection to that song just happens to be happening right now, when we need some publicity for this.

Crowe might be someone to reach out towards, and/or maybe one of the numerous publications writing about that 20th anniversary would be inclined to do another article or investigative journalism to get to the bottom of what's happening here, or at bare minimum to point blank ask each band member what's going on with the box. Deflection ain't gonna work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 28, 2020, 04:10:44 PM
Excellent idea, CD. I suspect someone here in the SS orbit is in contact with Crowe and can fill him in on the situation...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 29, 2020, 12:34:42 AM
The appearance of Feel Flows in that movie when it came out really brought a lot of my friends round to looking at the Beach Boys in a different way.

The fact it was a Carl song too was interesting. The reevaluation of the band in the music press was only really in it's early stage back then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 29, 2020, 12:56:37 AM
That was around the time period that people really started getting into the post "classic" period, and  the other BB members besides Brian *really* started to finally get credit.  And to top it all of, that had the end result of Brian's post 67 work being reevaluated, and thus the realization that he was still put out great work long after the myth held he'd stopped.

So yeah, we need this set out. Time's a tickin'


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 30, 2020, 08:29:42 AM
And now Brian's FB has a "Surf's Up was released on this day in 1971" post. Getting a lot of interaction. It mentions it was a group effort and lists everybody's contributions...with one exception. Tomorrow's 50th anniversary of Sunflower should be telling. If all we get from their social media is another "Sunflower was released on this day 50 years ago! What's your favorite track?", then I have little hope. Also, I can't believe the background splash on their main social media accounts are still Royal Philharmonic OUT NOW! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 30, 2020, 09:31:57 AM
And now Brian's FB has a "Surf's Up was released on this day in 1971" post. Getting a lot of interaction. It mentions it was a group effort and lists everybody's contributions...with one exception.  

The non-mention of Mike makes it pretty clear to me that some Mike-related BS is the reason for the FF box being squashed. Find me a logical scenario where Mike isn't the cause, despite Mike still getting snubbed in Brian's post. No way. It all lines up.   :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on August 30, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
Yes, very subtle. Carl contributed these, Al contributed these, this was Bruce's contribution, and these were Brian's. And?...and that's it! LOL. "A group effort!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: positivemusic on August 31, 2020, 04:34:50 AM
And now Brian's FB has a "Surf's Up was released on this day in 1971" post. Getting a lot of interaction. It mentions it was a group effort and lists everybody's contributions...with one exception.  

The non-mention of Mike makes it pretty clear to me that some Mike-related BS is the reason for the FF box being squashed. Find me a logical scenario where Mike isn't the cause, despite Mike still getting snubbed in Brian's post. No way. It all lines up.   :-\

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Zargo on August 31, 2020, 05:27:58 AM

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.

"All I wanna do" got mentioned today in Brian's post about Sunflower, so that surely shuts down the idea of any Feel Flows hinting to us. "Don't Go Near The Water" is pleasant, but perhaps Camp Brian doesn't like to be reminded of the many Al/Mike co-writes in the 70's...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 31, 2020, 05:38:01 AM
With people posting to social media about the box set, maybe we should include the link to the petition each time, so the Brian, Al, and Mike see that link, and it exposes others in the social media thread to the petition to potentially sign it.

Not sure how much internet time Brian, Mike and Al actually put in.  But hopefully their handlers will see it.  😁


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 31, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
Also nice to see after eight days of radio silence imposed by Mr. Suppressive Personality, that Brian's Facebook posts have loosened the tongue (fingers?) of the crew at "that other place"...we need everyone pitching in and looking for ways to shake this situation loose, folks. I don't want to sound like a broken record but the rock press has got to be alerted to this situation, and the more details about exactly what is being held back should be placed in their hands. They can take care of the rest...

Two iconic records brought out at the tail end of August in consecutive years that have so much more material behind them to further illuminate the creative energy peaking in the band from 1969-71--those anniversary dates remind us of just how valuable such an archival release really is for the band and its fans.

Let's keep letting them know how important it is and how much we care!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 31, 2020, 01:51:42 PM

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.

"All I wanna do" got mentioned today in Brian's post about Sunflower, so that surely shuts down the idea of any Feel Flows hinting to us. "Don't Go Near The Water" is pleasant, but perhaps Camp Brian doesn't like to be reminded of the many Al/Mike co-writes in the 70's...

While I do agree with you on this, I can't help but raise my eyebrows that they listed every song on the Surf's Up album except for the two that Mike Love was involved with. But yes, if they were sending a subtle message then they aren't being very consistent with that message given the Sunflower post, so I begrudgingly agree with you.
__________

And with that said, I am completely saddened that we have these two monumental anniversaries of albums (two days in a row) and no mention of the boxset that was meant to celebrate said albums. This would've been the perfect time to make such an announcement, and all we get are two posts from Brian's Facebook page, and The Beach Boys Facebook page shared a pathetic streaming link to the Surf's Up album. What a kick to the gut.

It has been 50 days since Howie came here and confirmed that this set was being held up. 30 days ago he again confirmed that there was no release date currently scheduled. While I don't think that the Surf's Up post was a hidden message to fans, I still can't shake the thought that Brian's camp publicly snubbed Mike Love's involvement on the record that houses 'Feel Flows'.

There has been no positive word about release for this set from anyone. There has been complete silence for 30 days. The days keep ticking by. It will be October soon, and the longer they put off announcing, the less likely this set will be able to come out. I don't know how long it takes to ramp up manufacturing of these sets, or how long a promotional campaign would take, but the closer to the new year the more I lose hope.

And sadly I don't have much hope left. I wish someone would prove me wrong, but I'm just not seeing the realistic possibility of release here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 31, 2020, 02:58:01 PM

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.

"All I wanna do" got mentioned today in Brian's post about Sunflower, so that surely shuts down the idea of any Feel Flows hinting to us. "Don't Go Near The Water" is pleasant, but perhaps Camp Brian doesn't like to be reminded of the many Al/Mike co-writes in the 70's...

While I do agree with you on this, I can't help but raise my eyebrows that they listed every song on the Surf's Up album except for the two that Mike Love was involved with. But yes, if they were sending a subtle message then they aren't being very consistent with that message given the Sunflower post, so I begrudgingly agree with you.
__________

And with that said, I am completely saddened that we have these two monumental anniversaries of albums (two days in a row) and no mention of the boxset that was meant to celebrate said albums. This would've been the perfect time to make such an announcement, and all we get are two posts from Brian's Facebook page, and The Beach Boys Facebook page shared a pathetic streaming link to the Surf's Up album. What a kick to the gut.

It has been 50 days since Howie came here and confirmed that this set was being held up. 30 days ago he again confirmed that there was no release date currently scheduled. While I don't think that the Surf's Up post was a hidden message to fans, I still can't shake the thought that Brian's camp publicly snubbed Mike Love's involvement on the record that houses 'Feel Flows'.

There has been no positive word about release for this set from anyone. There has been complete silence for 30 days. The days keep ticking by. It will be October soon, and the longer they put off announcing, the less likely this set will be able to come out. I don't know how long it takes to ramp up manufacturing of these sets, or how long a promotional campaign would take, but the closer to the new year the more I lose hope.

And sadly I don't have much hope left. I wish someone would prove me wrong, but I'm just not seeing the realistic possibility of release here.

The part in bold...A streaming link? That's ironic.  :p ;) :smokin :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on August 31, 2020, 03:10:17 PM
I saw a post from a Beatles/Apple insider about the new John Lennon “Gimme Some Truth” that will be released in October.
He said the final approval was in August 19th, and the announcement came last Friday.
So if Feel Flows will be released, they can make a announcement til October to have time to do the manufacturing in time for a December release.
If November comes and it still didn’t get an announcement, I think that’s it and we’ll expect a digital copyright extension release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 31, 2020, 03:17:22 PM
The petition is now up to 847. Anyone who knows other fans interested in this music and this box set but who might not be aware of the petition, consider forwarding them the link. Here is the petition link again for those interested:

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ (http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 31, 2020, 04:06:03 PM
There is going to be a big box set of The Who's "The Who Sell Out" album along with a "classic albums" style documentary set for I think early next year, and a box set for "Who's Next" is already being planned. The Who is my favorite group on earth, and as excited as I am for those projects I honestly would be more excited for the Feel Flows box set. Just for the simple reason that the last several copyright extension releases have literally redefined our entire perspective of the beach boys. Every release since "Sunshine Tomorrow" has felt like getting to know a completely new and different band for the first time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 31, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
Every release since "Sunshine Tomorrow" has felt like getting to know a completely new and different band for the first time.

In that case, the current dysfunctional situation should feel deeply comforting, reassuring you that these are the same Beach Boys you've always known. :)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 01, 2020, 12:50:21 PM
Fred Vail shared the Sunflower 50th post on FB too. In relation to the track that was previewed for the set awhile back, all he said was maybe doing a crowdfund to complete the album, about 10 more songs, mixing and overdubs. Idk if that means this set ain't happening and he has to finish the whole thing himself if it's to be released, or if he was just referring to the rest of it.

Also on the BB Sunflower FB post, in terms of voting, ESQ said "majority wins the day", so is it more than one of them?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 01, 2020, 06:30:15 PM

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.

"All I wanna do" got mentioned today in Brian's post about Sunflower, so that surely shuts down the idea of any Feel Flows hinting to us. "Don't Go Near The Water" is pleasant, but perhaps Camp Brian doesn't like to be reminded of the many Al/Mike co-writes in the 70's...

While I do agree with you on this, I can't help but raise my eyebrows that they listed every song on the Surf's Up album except for the two that Mike Love was involved with. But yes, if they were sending a subtle message then they aren't being very consistent with that message given the Sunflower post, so I begrudgingly agree with you.
__________

And with that said, I am completely saddened that we have these two monumental anniversaries of albums (two days in a row) and no mention of the boxset that was meant to celebrate said albums. This would've been the perfect time to make such an announcement, and all we get are two posts from Brian's Facebook page, and The Beach Boys Facebook page shared a pathetic streaming link to the Surf's Up album. What a kick to the gut.

It has been 50 days since Howie came here and confirmed that this set was being held up. 30 days ago he again confirmed that there was no release date currently scheduled. While I don't think that the Surf's Up post was a hidden message to fans, I still can't shake the thought that Brian's camp publicly snubbed Mike Love's involvement on the record that houses 'Feel Flows'.

There has been no positive word about release for this set from anyone. There has been complete silence for 30 days. The days keep ticking by. It will be October soon, and the longer they put off announcing, the less likely this set will be able to come out. I don't know how long it takes to ramp up manufacturing of these sets, or how long a promotional campaign would take, but the closer to the new year the more I lose hope.

And sadly I don't have much hope left. I wish someone would prove me wrong, but I'm just not seeing the realistic possibility of release here.
It's September, and i'm looking back over what's happened so far this year. I don't have ANY hope left.
I'm not buying the bs that 2021 will be a ray of sunshine, either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2020, 06:31:07 PM

Also on the BB Sunflower FB post, in terms of voting, ESQ said "majority wins the day", so is it more than one of them?

ESQ didn't seem to do anything in terms of mentioning or even sharing the petition, or any other efforts by fans to let the band and management know how much they'd like to see this set released. I'm wondering why.

Seriously, in terms of marketing, how f**king great would it have been to mark the release anniversaries of the SAME TWO ALBUMS featured on this box set since the anniversaries line up and they were released a day apart from each other, and one is the golden anniversary year? The missed opportunity aspect of this is staggering, it's so ridiculous.

And in terms of "majority wins the day", I wonder if a majority will vote "yes" on the topic of celebrating the band's 60th by releasing more remakes and re-records of classic songs, more guest artists for Mike to sing Beach Boys covers with, and more "compilations" of the same greatest hits we've bought for decades.

Sh*t.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 01, 2020, 07:16:39 PM

It is possible, but I vaguely remember Brian having very little, if anything at all about "Student Demonstration Time" in the Sunflower twofer liner notes. I think he called it "too intense" or something to that effect.

Although, that doesn't explain "Don't Go Near The Water" not being mentioned.

"All I wanna do" got mentioned today in Brian's post about Sunflower, so that surely shuts down the idea of any Feel Flows hinting to us. "Don't Go Near The Water" is pleasant, but perhaps Camp Brian doesn't like to be reminded of the many Al/Mike co-writes in the 70's...

While I do agree with you on this, I can't help but raise my eyebrows that they listed every song on the Surf's Up album except for the two that Mike Love was involved with. But yes, if they were sending a subtle message then they aren't being very consistent with that message given the Sunflower post, so I begrudgingly agree with you.
__________

And with that said, I am completely saddened that we have these two monumental anniversaries of albums (two days in a row) and no mention of the boxset that was meant to celebrate said albums. This would've been the perfect time to make such an announcement, and all we get are two posts from Brian's Facebook page, and The Beach Boys Facebook page shared a pathetic streaming link to the Surf's Up album. What a kick to the gut.

It has been 50 days since Howie came here and confirmed that this set was being held up. 30 days ago he again confirmed that there was no release date currently scheduled. While I don't think that the Surf's Up post was a hidden message to fans, I still can't shake the thought that Brian's camp publicly snubbed Mike Love's involvement on the record that houses 'Feel Flows'.

There has been no positive word about release for this set from anyone. There has been complete silence for 30 days. The days keep ticking by. It will be October soon, and the longer they put off announcing, the less likely this set will be able to come out. I don't know how long it takes to ramp up manufacturing of these sets, or how long a promotional campaign would take, but the closer to the new year the more I lose hope.

And sadly I don't have much hope left. I wish someone would prove me wrong, but I'm just not seeing the realistic possibility of release here.
It's September, and i'm looking back over what's happened so far this year. I don't have ANY hope left.
I'm not buying the bs that 2021 will be a ray of sunshine, either.

Me too.
And it’s a shame, but I think it’ll be canceled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2020, 08:37:20 PM

Also on the BB Sunflower FB post, in terms of voting, ESQ said "majority wins the day", so is it more than one of them?

ESQ didn't seem to do anything in terms of mentioning or even sharing the petition, or any other efforts by fans to let the band and management know how much they'd like to see this set released. I'm wondering why.

Seriously, in terms of marketing, how f**king great would it have been to mark the release anniversaries of the SAME TWO ALBUMS featured on this box set since the anniversaries line up and they were released a day apart from each other, and one is the golden anniversary year? The missed opportunity aspect of this is staggering, it's so ridiculous.

And in terms of "majority wins the day", I wonder if a majority will vote "yes" on the topic of celebrating the band's 60th by releasing more remakes and re-records of classic songs, more guest artists for Mike to sing Beach Boys covers with, and more "compilations" of the same greatest hits we've bought for decades.

Sh*t.


Plus the fact that Mike's socials stayed completely silent about the anniversaries of these albums is telling as well. Is that just a coincidence? Brian and Al by contrast were more than happy to gleefully look back upon those albums publicly over the last couple of days.

Is Mike going to play some avoidance game and just ignore questions of this box for the rest of his days? Or is it a mention of the box going to be something that is forbidden to be asked by all future interviewers? What will he do when fans purchase tickets for one of his shows, and hold up banners asking him to address the box? Plus meet and greets once they return.

At some point Mike, as well as the rest of the band, but it would seem mainly Mike - who is the only one who specifically dodged the recent interview question about archival releases - will have to address things one way or another. It might be a BS cover-up answer, but they will still have to address it. They can't play avoidance games with fans forever about this. Fans are not going to let this go. Somebody in the band has got to spill the beans at some point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 02, 2020, 04:07:12 AM
The petition is now up to 1,028.

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2020, 06:38:05 AM
Plus the fact that Mike's socials stayed completely silent about the anniversaries of these albums is telling as well. Is that just a coincidence? Brian and Al by contrast were more than happy to gleefully look back upon those albums publicly over the last couple of days.

Is Mike going to play some avoidance game and just ignore questions of this box for the rest of his days? Or is it a mention of the box going to be something that is forbidden to be asked by all future interviewers? What will he do when fans purchase tickets for one of his shows, and hold up banners asking him to address the box? Plus meet and greets once they return.

At some point Mike, as well as the rest of the band, but it would seem mainly Mike - who is the only one who specifically dodged the recent interview question about archival releases - will have to address things one way or another. It might be a BS cover-up answer, but they will still have to address it. They can't play avoidance games with fans forever about this. Fans are not going to let this go. Somebody in the band has got to spill the beans at some point.

It would be mildly amusing to waste some money on a meet and greet ticket just to get Mike to sign a pristine vinyl copy of 'Summer in Paradise' with the words "WHERE THE F*** IS FEEL FLOWS?" written across the entire front in permanent marker.

It's September, and i'm looking back over what's happened so far this year. I don't have ANY hope left.
I'm not buying the bs that 2021 will be a ray of sunshine, either.

Yeah, I'm thinking you're right.

There are 121 days left between now and the New Year. Maybe some announcement will be made soon. But if there is nothing going on behind-the-scenes, now is the time for anyone with connections to be asking Jason Fine to look into this and perhaps get an article pushed in Rolling Stone.

The petition is now up to 1,028.

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ

That is fantastic news!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 02, 2020, 07:09:36 AM
The petition is now up to 1,028.

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ

1,040 this morning and still growing!

I could be wrong, but it looks like several fans mentioned and linked the petition on the Beach Boys Facebook page in the last day or so, under the repost of Brian's "Sunflower" 50th post. That has to be a reason for the bump in activity, and it's great to see. And again, the only word from ESQ was a post advertising the magazine in the same comments, yet not a word about the petition or about supporting the release of the set at all. And again, you have to wonder why.

The fans are still speaking loudly in spite of those not listening or outright dismissing this effort.

At some point it would be nice to see someone in a decision-making capacity just cut through the bullshit and respond to the fans. If they're ignored, you'll lose them. The petition will keep setting new goals...how many more goals do fans need to meet before those running things get the damn point?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2020, 08:24:15 AM
At some point it would be nice to see someone in a decision-making capacity just cut through the bullshit and respond to the fans. If they're ignored, you'll lose them. The petition will keep setting new goals...how many more goals do fans need to meet before those running things get the damn point?

The optimist in me is hoping that the silence is due to talks going on in the background. But the realist in me says that, other than Howie's post from the month before last, there has already been complete silence about this set for 7 months.

As for your "you'll lose them" comment, I agree in the sense that I'd be more sympathetic to support Mike's 60th Anniversary dreams of song remakes only if Feel Flows comes out. Otherwise, Mike's remake CD with the Beach Boys name slapped on the cover can collect dust in the $5 bin for all I care. Regardless of whoever is blocking Feel Flows (ignoring the extraordinarily wild and completely unrealistic agenda-driven speculation that is merely based on simple logic and a rudimentary knowledge of the history of the band) I hope that everyone in the band realizes how important this release is to over 1,000 fans and counting. This is the last major release that matters to the band history. This is was the last major creative explosion before the endless summer started. When 'Kokomo' hits the 50th anniversary in the year 2038, maybe we'll have a little boxset commemorating that. Until then, this is it. And this is a set that is "Heaven on Earth". These are the songs that made Brian cry in the booth they were so beautiful. This is where Dennis Wilson created a masterpiece that went unheard for 40+ years. This is where Carl crept out and created a song that is now iconic in Almost Famous. This is where Mike and Brian created one one of the most beautiful and underrated love songs of all time.

Will we ever get to hear the sessions for these songs? Will we ever get to hear the a cappella background vocals for the tag of 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree'? How about all those unearthed gems that we have yet to hear at all?

Where is ESQ in all of this? Where are the "big" names sharing this petition elsewhere? This isn't a time for political games regarding one's future standing with band members. Howie already stuck his neck out there to inform us of the dire situation. Where is everyone else?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2020, 10:29:08 AM
The confusing thing about this is that it went from "BIG NEWS SOON!!!!!" to complete silence seemingly within a few weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2020, 10:31:53 AM
That’s a damn good question rab

Hell at this point I’m considering paying the license fee and releasing an EP called “Where’s Feel Flows?!” and having a couple of Sunflower/Surfs Up covers just to further bring attention.

Then again with the lack of sales success of my last project it may have the opposite effect 😂🥺😢😭


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
The confusing thing about this is that it went from "BIG NEWS SOON!!!!!" to complete silence seemingly within a few weeks.

That was referring to something different besides the boxed set. I think “big” was overshooting it. “Soon” was a lie, and there ain’t no “news” for damn sure


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 02, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
And to think that quite possibly, this box might be jeopardized due to Mike having a hard-on for monetizing private shows funded by murdering animals for fun.

Because if this is happening - even in part - out of some sort of revenge against what happened in February, when Mike probably felt humiliated by the very public snafu across major media sources, peace behind the scenes could've probably have been kept if Brian and Al hadn't shared the petition pleading (along with most decent people, plus many of Mike's ardent defenders) for that show to be nixed.

Brian and Al did the right thing, but I'm sure Mike viewed it as nothing more than a threat to his control of the brand.

Mike has shown a history of acting at his lowest when he feels his control is threatened, so I have a little reason to think that that isn't part of the equation here. Maybe it's a more complex issue than that, but I have to think that some bad stuff went down between the camps after Brian and Al shared that petition. Maybe that opened the floodgates for Mike to try to grasp control or finagle some sort of power grab to counteract his feelings of being threatened.

So yeah, if that's the case, it just becomes completely nausea-inducing to think that this beautiful music of the deceased Wilson brothers could be a casualty of Mike prioritizing playing a show gleefully promoting the murdering of animals. Think about it, and let it digest for a moment.  That is just so mindblowingly sick I can't even process it. If that February situation has anything to do with what's happening here with FF whatsoever, that might be the most disgusting thing in the history of this band.

"Don't you dare tell me I can't play a show promotng the murdering animals for fun, I will retaliate in ways you can't even imagine" does not seem like a far-fetched scenario to me, but then again that's just my opinion, man. That is certainly not what I *want* to be the case, but 60 years of shenanigans make me believe it's not out of the realm of possibility.

I sincerely hope I'm completely wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on September 02, 2020, 11:15:36 AM
"Don't you dare tell me I can't play a show promotng the murdering animals for fun, I will retaliate in ways you can't even imagine" does not seem like a far-fetched scenario to me, but then again that's just my opinion, man.

I assume that has to be a Big Lebowski reference? Ha.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 02, 2020, 11:51:26 AM
The confusing thing about this is that it went from "BIG NEWS SOON!!!!!" to complete silence seemingly within a few weeks.

That was referring to something different besides the boxed set. I think “big” was overshooting it. “Soon” was a lie, and there ain’t no “news” for damn sure

Didn't Mr. Edelson say the "news" would have had nothing to do with the set? I think that "BIG" news post was around the same time Bruce gave that interview talking about how ESQ had been wanting them to re-record Add Some Music (not sure why they'd want that), and that they in fact were re-recording it, all the group, a bunch of their kids, etc. I wouldn't imagine that constitutes all caps "BIG" news, so who knows what it was. Just a desperate fantasy here - I'll choose to believe that Mike wants the re-recorded Add Some Music done and on the set and to promote, and wants the set name changed to Add Some Music, so that's the hold up. If only it were as simple as all that. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2020, 11:56:38 AM
Why does it always come down to the same damn thing over and over again? Putting together a big box set is a process more complicated than any of us could probably dream of. There could be thousands of reasons for it being delayed or currently without a release date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 02, 2020, 12:15:31 PM
Because its always the same "problem child" involved.... :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 02, 2020, 12:20:45 PM
Jay.  Howie confirmed this set is complete and releaseable now, and has been for a while. Whatever is holding this up is not related to the physical product.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
The physical product may well be complete and ready to go, but what if there were last minute legalities over authorship, or monetary compensation to somebody? Just because the set itself is complete doesn't mean all loose ends have been tied yet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 02, 2020, 12:52:20 PM
The physical product may well be complete and ready to go, but what if there were last minute legalities over authorship, or monetary compensation to somebody? Just because the set itself is complete doesn't mean all loose ends have been tied yet.

So you would count Mike completely sidestepping and deflecting the question about vault releases, plus Brian's social media snubbing Mike's contribution to the SU album, plus Mike being the only member with an active social media who completely ignored both recent album anniversaries (and this is a guy who historically loves to talk about big anniversaries), all of which happened within the last month or so, as mere coincidence?

I mean, maybe it is, but I'd say that's some circumstantial evidence of something bad with the camps.
 
February was a really bad thing that happened, Mike was publicly humiliated and for good reason. And things got so bad, he allowed Donald Trump Jr to pick on Brian and stayed silent. Silence speaks volumes. I can't logically think that has zero to do with what's going on here.  Maybe it's not the whole reason, but I can't conceive it's 100% unrelated.

Based on his past actions, does Mike strike you as the type of guy who would just let that go and not be revenge minded? Specifically, his use of the brand name as he sees fit was called into question in a huge scale in a massively public way. I can think few things that would be anywhere near as threatening to that man.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2020, 01:31:36 PM
Of course Mike totally sidestepped questions about unreleased material, because there is a big upcoming project that has to remain as "tight lipped" as possible until ready! Remember what happened with Al blowing the surprise of a Smile box set? Ain't no way on earth a major label would want that to happen again, so it wouldn't surprise me if all parties involved were asked/instructed to not say to much. Come on guys, common sense shouldn't be this hard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2020, 02:20:37 PM
Of course Mike totally sidestepped questions about unreleased material, because there is a big upcoming project that has to remain as "tight lipped" as possible until ready! Remember what happened with Al blowing the surprise of a Smile box set? Ain't no way on earth a major label would want that to happen again, so it wouldn't surprise me if all parties involved were asked/instructed to not say to much. Come on guys, common sense shouldn't be this hard.

Not trying to be crusty here or anything, but have you read this entire thread? Most of the stuff you're talking about has already been asked and answered.

Multiple band members have already discussed the "Feel Flows" set publicly.  People who have worked on the set have spoken about it publicly. There's no "secret" here.

The whole point of this movement is that we know the set exists, is finished, and is NOT scheduled for release. Many have already addressed the theory that everything is fine and they just haven't "officially announced" something yet: That theory is not accurate at all.

In case anybody needs a more unequivocal way to put this: From everything I've heard, the recent interview with Mike was not *at all* about any strategy to "surprise" everybody with the set, or about any other edict about not discussing the set at all to the point of professing seeming ignorance as to the general robust nature of the vaults in general.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The physical product may well be complete and ready to go, but what if there were last minute legalities over authorship, or monetary compensation to somebody? Just because the set itself is complete doesn't mean all loose ends have been tied yet.

Read the entire thread. These questions have already been answered, to varying degrees of specificity. In short, none of these theories are at play. The set is ready to go. There is no beef about the contents of the set. I could go on, but as I said, this has all already been gone over multiple times in previous posts in this thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2020, 02:43:03 PM
Of course Mike totally sidestepped questions about unreleased material, because there is a big upcoming project that has to remain as "tight lipped" as possible until ready! Remember what happened with Al blowing the surprise of a Smile box set? Ain't no way on earth a major label would want that to happen again, so it wouldn't surprise me if all parties involved were asked/instructed to not say to much. Come on guys, common sense shouldn't be this hard.

I genuinely can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Given how much you have claimed this forum is supposedly a Mike Love Hate Club I'm leaning toward you're actually being serious.

AL ALREADY SPILLED THE BEANS ABOUT THIS SET. BRUCE ALREADY SPILLED THE BEANS ABOUT THIS SET. One of the three people who worked on this set came here and not only confirmed this set exists but said he had saved the thing from dying on the vine twice, and that is was basically dead now.

Seriously, stop drinking the kool aid at the EH forum....the place where logic goes to die. I get that some there are offended by the "wild" "agenda drive" speculation (heaven forbid we make logical theories based off of the actual history regarding Mike and boxsets), but it should be painfully obvious what is going on when not only the co-maker of this set comes here and says this set is sitting on a shelf, but also that Mike completely ignored that this set even exists when asked straight up about archival material.

Al was excited for the set. Bruce was excited for the set. Brian has a documentary coming out named after a song on 'Surf's Up'. Mike was pretty much straight up asked about a boxset that TWO of his bandmates already spoke publicly about and he ignores it and starts getting giddy about some lousy remakes for the 60th. Can't wait to hear Boyz 2 Men cover 'Amusement Parks USA'.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
I'm well aware that all of the members of the group have talked about the set, and I'm well aware there is no "secret" about it. The point I was trying to make is that whenever a big project is being readied for release nobody wants any specific details to leak until the right time. So obviously Mike would want to not give the public to many specific details until the right moment.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 02, 2020, 03:11:10 PM
Mike Love, throughout the history of the band, has normally been extremely eager to “tease” information to the press about upcoming releases. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2020, 03:17:05 PM
I’m gonna say this right now what’s gonna happen. We’ll get some kind of mandatory release at the end digital only; we *might* end up with an actual release to coincide with the 60th anniversary of Surfin. Which granted makes little sense as it couldn’t be any more different but that’s the BB for you, especially considering a certain member’s complete lack of commercial common sense despite being obsessed with commerciality above all else.

Ah screw the certain member phrase. Mike. Mike. Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike .

Yup


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:02 PM
I'm well aware that all of the members of the group have talked about the set, and I'm well aware there is no "secret" about it. The point I was trying to make is that whenever a big project is being readied for release nobody wants any specific details to leak until the right time. So obviously Mike would want to not give the public to many specific details until the right moment.

True but it’s past the point of it being leaked. It’s more of it being suppressed


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2020, 03:25:32 PM
I'm well aware that all of the members of the group have talked about the set, and I'm well aware there is no "secret" about it. The point I was trying to make is that whenever a big project is being readied for release nobody wants any specific details to leak until the right time. So obviously Mike would want to not give the public to many specific details until the right moment.

What specific details? He could've just acknowledged that the set even exists! Given that Al and Bruce have already publicly acknowledged it, it is very telling to me that Mike completely ignored the set altogether....given Howie's information and the lack of any positive update.

Mike Love, throughout the history of the band, has normally been extremely eager to “tease” information to the press about upcoming releases.  

Yep.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2020, 03:28:25 PM
I'm well aware that all of the members of the group have talked about the set, and I'm well aware there is no "secret" about it. The point I was trying to make is that whenever a big project is being readied for release nobody wants any specific details to leak until the right time. So obviously Mike would want to not give the public to many specific details until the right moment.

Wrong.

First of all, the interview wasn't asking Mike for a friggin' tracklisting or anything. It didn't even ask specifically about one particular release (e.g. "Feel Flows"). It was basically a "wow, you guys sure have a big archive of interesting material, right?", with the answer being essentially, "meh, I dunno, but here's some other idea I have for next year for something nobody wants, for which I'll actually go into some amount of detail."

Given how other band members have spoken of a 70/71 boxed set, there's NO reason Mike wouldn't be able to say "yeah, there's some interesting stuff in the archives, in fact, they've been working on another set recently."

I think there absolutely *could* be reasons to not talk about the boxed set, but I don't believe those reasons would have anything to do with keeping elements of the set a surprise, or for fear of info leaking out.

I don't know how many times or ways I can explain that what has happened with this set is NOT a normal cycle/pattern/schedule for how such sets go.

You have numerous people doing everything but naming every name and gory detail, trying to explain with big light-up signs "Hey, this set was ready to go and now something is keeping it from happening. It's sufficiently an abnormal, concerning issue such that big giant red flags need to be waved, and fans need to be called to voice their support."

Nobody needed to do this for "Sunshine Tomorrow", or the '68 sets, or the "Party" set, and so on.

This "Feel Flows" situation is different. And for a zillionth time, I can only also say that nobody would ever be able to just guess the precise reason this is all going down this way. It's not only not a normal release cycle for a project, I'd also say it's fair to say the current reason(s) for the ongoing delay are out of the ordinary even compared to normal reasons such sets are delayed or not released. There is no squabble over tracklistings, no issues about credits or royalties, no beef about the cover art or book or packaging. The only real commonality between this situation and past situations is what Jon Stebbins mentioned in his post, that it ultimately ends up being a result of the band, or a member or members, doing their circular firing squad thing.

I'm reminded of back in the 90s when someone asked Neil Aspinall at Apple in an interview about why they wouldn't release a set of all the Beatles' music videos. His answer was something like "that would be too obvious." I think the current BB situation, while not anything specifically like that at all, is a similar situation as far as hearing the reasons for the product not coming out, and thinking "Huh? What?"

As I've said, the reasons may be complicated and unlikely to be known any time soon, if ever, but it's also a situation that can easily be bypassed if the needed parties just realize this set is important and needs to be released now, and that nothing bad will come of it, only ALL GOOD STUFF. For everybody.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 02, 2020, 04:14:50 PM
Would like to know how many unique previously unreleased songs might be on this box. That would give us a sense of whether or not it is a complete disaster if the box doesn't come out this year.

The '69 set was 3 tracks.

Given the number of tracks from this era that have found their way onto previous official releases, there might be say 15 previously unreleased songs, but there might be 60. I just don't know what's in the archives, beyond what is on widely circulating boots.

This will make a big difference to the viability of the set beyond 31 Dec.

This begs the question of whether or not the digital only release would get approval this year.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on September 02, 2020, 04:42:38 PM
I just shared it to my beach boys instagram profile that has 3,700 followers. Hopefully we’ll get some more signatures!!!

Give a follow if you’re on Instagram, thanks!! https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpyOzese49/?igshid=j0ht951u3olc (https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpyOzese49/?igshid=j0ht951u3olc)

I frequently have Carnie Wilson and Al’s verified account like and comment on my posts, so maybe this will gain some traction!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 06:00:33 AM
I just shared it to my beach boys instagram profile that has 3,700 followers. Hopefully we’ll get some more signatures!!!

Give a follow if you’re on Instagram, thanks!! https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpyOzese49/?igshid=j0ht951u3olc (https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpyOzese49/?igshid=j0ht951u3olc)

I frequently have Carnie Wilson and Al’s verified account like and comment on my posts, so maybe this will gain some traction!

Thanks so much! 74 people signed it since you made that post. We're now at 1,120 fans who want Feel Flows released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 03, 2020, 07:26:00 AM
Radio Silence on the EH board... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 03, 2020, 08:06:12 AM
Radio Silence on the EH board... ::)

Or as the jocks say, Dead Air.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 03, 2020, 09:22:18 AM
With more people learning about the set and wondering if it's this or that holding it up, or that there has never been an announcement, so maybe it doesn't exist/is still being worked on, etc, and since the thread is almost a year old and 53 pages, I thought a gathering up of the statements (some secondhand) from those close to the project/in the know, and from others on various forums, was in order. Message me if I miss/mess anything up and I'll edit.



November 17, 2019 on the Steve Hoffman Forums, the post that started this thread, user tingly said:

"Al Jardine said today that there is a great box set that they're working on. Its working title is Feel Flows. Contents are Sunflower, Surfs Up, and an unreleased live recording of which he has no memory doing. He didn't say what concert, physical/download, if it's certain for release, possible release date, whether remastered, if there are outtakes,..."

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-7#post-22567080



December 4, 2019 Fred Vail @ RCA Studio B on YouTube channel Big Hippo Music In Country Music We Trust, previewing "All For The Love Of A Girl" said:

"The Beach Boys, they're going to be doing an outtake album of songs they recorded in '69 and '70, next year for Capitol. It'll be the 50th anniversary of Sunflower, one of their big albums, and they decided that they might want to put a Fred Vail track on it, because it was recorded in April of 1970 when we were doing Sunflower, the Beach Boy album".

https://youtu.be/Ng3b4NbKvv8?t=140



December 9, 2019 (1) and later on July 29, 2020 (2) reddit. May have since been edited, (1) theclaptonfan, relaying info from (2) HellaciousMedic said:

(1) "They said they were getting Sunflower and Surf’s Up signed and Bruce mentioned new material from those albums will be coming out in February next year."

(2) "When I talked with Bruce at a VIP meet back in November he said it was gonna come out around February of this year, and when I got the chance to talk with him again on one of the Michale Graves VIP web conferences he said it is still coming out. It's good to know that it is all done and ready though even though it doesn't have a confirmed release date."

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/fad0388?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/i092yu/more_on_the_feel_flows_set/fzo35b8?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3



February 3, 2020 Safari Club kerfuffle. Brian and Al support boycott. BB play the show on February 6th, 2020 anyway.



February 21, 2020 reddit, roffels said:

"I met Bruce Johnston briefly before the Beach Boys recent Orlando show, he said expect a summer Sunflower release."

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/ficahmc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3



February 22, 2020 EH Board, saltymarshmallow said:

"Amazed this hasn't gotten around yet, but about a month ago someone on the Discord server spoke to Garry Griffin and Clint Boire (Brian's sound guy) backstage and they said a 5 CD set featuring Sunflower material is coming later this year, probably in Summer. And apparently Al's been listening to stuff on the tour bus."

https://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/19712/thread



February 26, 2020 Mark Linett YouTube livestream @ Sunset Sound, channel Produce Like A Pro, sampling new mixes of San Miguel and Cottonfields, when asked when they were coming out said:

"I hope this fall. We're waiting on a release date. It's a large project, so it takes a bit of...bit of finesse to get it all done and approved, yeah. But we're still working on it."

https://youtu.be/prFdy74TyuA?t=13134



April 30, 2020 EH Board, jiggy22 said:

"Heard today from "a guy that knows a guy" that the set is currently stalling due to what was described as "internal conflicts"".

https://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/22381/thread



May 26, 2020 ESQ, the Beach Boys Publication of Record, releases the Sunflower 50th Issue. In its News and Notes:

"A five-disc Feel Flows boxed set, focusing on sessions from 1969 through 1971 is in the works"

https://esquarterly.com/esq-store/summer-2020-issue-130-sunflower-50th-anniversary-edition/



June 10 2020, ESQ on FB:

"Some BIG Beach Boys news coming soon!"

https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/posts/10158263240917487



June 16, 2020

I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.



June 19, 2020

I gotta say re: Bruce. While doing the liners for the upcoming box set, we did a nearly three-hour interview. To ME -- he was the MVP. Amazing recall. Was able to put it in razor sharp perspective and proved that he's actually thought long and hard about this music. I wish we could use it all -- because he went far deeper than ever on this era, discussing at length what made this band tick during those years. He went full out. Pulled no punches.

Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.

I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing. It kills me that you haven't already.



July 1, 2020 superdeluxeedition Phil Cohen says an issue that may delay many upcoming releases, including Feel Flows is:

"the fabricating and printing of the packaging elements that are typical of major label boxed sets...the closing of many mastering facilities, and the millions of unemployed consumers who won’t be able to afford the products."



July 13, 2020

Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.



July 27, 2020

FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.



July 28 2020

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.



July 29 2020

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.




July 29, 2020

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.



July 30, 2020 superdeluxedition Bruce Kelso says:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/get-in-touch/#comment-1630126



August 13, 2020 Mike Love on YouTube podcast Paltrocast with Darren Paltrowitz, in regards to previous archival releases and what's to come:

DP "is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

ML "Well, I don't know how much there is in the vault, but I'll tell you this, we're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the group in another year or so, and that warrants something special, that's for sure, and so, I've got some ideas on that, but little too early to talk about it, but I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs, and that'll be a lot of fun to do, and I think, I'm looking forward to what the future may bring."

https://youtu.be/OWz7Stun-KI?t=532



August 16, 2020 Steve Hoffman Forums, user pool_of_tears, in reply to a post noting the delay has nothing to do with the content, said:

"Oh, I know :) I’ve heard the reason and my lips are sealed"

"I was told by someone who is truly "in the know", and I have to respect the source...as my mother used to say: mums the word. As it's been said here, the set is done. It's like having rounded third and heading for home...getting ready to sldie into the catcher's feet and knock him off balance, but instead getting caught in a pickle."

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-34#post-24718885
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-34#post-24720399



August 22, 2020

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.



August 30, 2020

Brian's FB posts on the 49th anniversary of the release of Surf's Up, touting it as a group effort and running through the tracks each member contributed, save for one. The Beach Boys page links to places to stream the album.

https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/posts/10159310418277241



August 31, 2020

Sunflower 50th. No announcements. Brian's FB posts on the 50th anniversary of the release of Sunflower. Shared by The Beach Boys page. The Beach Boys page also shared ESQ's Sunflower 50th Issue post. Al's anniversary post features a video of All I Wanna Do, and Fred Vail posts on Sunflower's anniversary with an interview video he did discussing it. Mike's website and social media have been inactive since around the 4th of July.

In response to a query about the track "All For The Love Of a Girl" that Fred Vail teased back in December and when it might come out, Fred said:

"considering doing a “crowd fund” to complete it—-lots of overdubs and mixing—approximately 10 more songs"

And although people here and on other forums have speculated that a unanimous vote is required for unreleased BRI material, ESQ, in response to the Sunflower Issue tease, and voting speculation said:

"we did what we could with the information we had." and "but majority wins the day. I think there’s a bit more going on that."

https://www.facebook.com/fred.vail.7/posts/10224010333663118

https://www.facebook.com/thebeachboys/posts/10158603915874140



September 17, 2020

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.







September 26, 2020

The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.






September 27, 2020

Just to be clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.

What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.



October 12, 2020

I will say one thing, people keep citing "you said content had nothing to do with it" or Made in California or why is it being blocked etc... Take this in, the situation evolved from one place to another. You should have had the box months ago, it was blocked. That is history. Now is a DIFFERENT time in history. If you do end up getting the set, it may be missing things that were in the version that was blocked. Why is that? Because there are people who have expressed that they possibly would like to change it. The people who would like to change it are NOT the people who put together the box that you should have had months ago that was blocked. They wanted to give you something great and wonderful and inclusive. They worked hard on it and delivered. We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility and that is a bulletin directly from the inside. Not speculation. But as of now, i guess we're all in "we'll see" mode as things are still fluid as far as i know.



That's all I've found in terms of "official statements", insider info and relevant user posts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on September 03, 2020, 09:40:06 AM
Great post, Cork On The Ocean!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on September 03, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
Clearly something happened between June 19 and July 13.

Still think an article by Rolling Stone about the incredible unreleased music (Someone would have to give then a preview) and the “revelations” the box set contains and bemoaning whatever hassles are holding it up could turn the tide and trigger a release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 03, 2020, 11:40:11 AM
Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: southbay on September 03, 2020, 11:46:25 AM
So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.

I have read his statement over and over again to find where he acknowledged that something was indeed happening and I'm not finding it.

He says "I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs" but this doesn't at all mean that anything is going to actually happen.

He specifically says that he "thinks" there will be "opportunities" to "come up with" archival releases. Sad thing is, Feel Flows doesn't need an opportunity to be "come up with" - it is literally finished. It is completely ready to go. So there is no way he was referring to Feel Flows - in which case his statement doesn't mean anything to this thread, other than what he clearly didn't say in that statement.

@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

Yeah. Really hoping those ESQ quotes can be deciphered some. "but majority wins the day. I think there’s a bit more going on that." What does that last sentence even mean?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2020, 01:09:49 PM
While I of course cannot say for certain, I suspect ESQ is *not* aware of what's going on behind the scenes, at least anywhere near the full story.

Also, and this is 100% just my own opinion, if they *did* have the full story, they would *not* report it. I say this only because in the past they've passed on reporting on far less inflammatory/sensitive issues regarding the internal politics of the band and their corporation.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2020, 01:17:30 PM

@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 03, 2020, 01:42:05 PM

@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)

So as of now there are at least 2 votes saying no, which is why it isn't being released, correct? 

I have been pretty excited about working to get people to sign the petition, but am now starting to just be frustrated that no announcements or statements from the band are occurring.  At this point I am starting to wish I didn't know about the set, so I wouldn't be disappointed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 01:47:02 PM

@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)

Thanks so much for this. For whatever reason, this entire time I was under the impression that archival releases require a unanimous vote. What the hell is going on then?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 03, 2020, 01:51:24 PM
Cork is my hero...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on September 03, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.

I have read his statement over and over again to find where he acknowledged that something was indeed happening and I'm not finding it.

He says "I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs" but this doesn't at all mean that anything is going to actually happen.

He specifically says that he "thinks" there will be "opportunities" to "come up with" archival releases. Sad thing is, Feel Flows doesn't need an opportunity to be "come up with" - it is literally finished. It is completely ready to go. So there is no way he was referring to Feel Flows - in which case his statement doesn't mean anything to this thread, other than what he clearly didn't say in that statement.

Not only that, but it seems like he's just repeating the word of the interviewer to appease him and attempt to tie the answer together.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2020, 02:06:21 PM
I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 03, 2020, 02:17:16 PM
It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 03, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Cork is my hero...

I second that emotion. Thank you so much for your efforts, Cork. Bravo.

This spells things out in a very clear, easily-digestible manner. In fact, seeing things laid out in that manner could theoretically give a music journalist a blueprint on how to relativity easily write a story about this. Almost in the way those websites on the oral history of famous movies are presented. Just get some good graphics and perhaps draw some cartoon sketches or stock BBs photos, alongside this timeline, to help visualize how everything has been going down.

Literally, Cork just did some great investigative journalism, and some proper media outlet should run a story on this.

It will get clicks, shares, and generate advertising revenue.


If for no other reason that wanting to make money, a Buzzfeed, Rolling Stone, or other such site needs to run with this. This is a story that can be monetized, and in the process, bring the plight of this set to a much higher level of public attention.

This timeline is exhibit A for which Mike's dismissive non-answer is not going to cut it. Us fans are not fools, the cat has been let out of the bag. Sorry Mike. There's a whole bunch of history with this box that is clearly happening, which he doesn't want us fans to know about for some reason. To me, that can likely only mean it's not something he feels he can readily explain and get public sympathy for (ie. some typical ego-related nonsense), so essentially he's doing a passive aggressive cover-up.

Let's get a story going about this. The journalist doesn't have to opine about what's actually going on, they can literally just state the facts. I may have my own opinions, and that's all they are, opinions. I don't present them as facts.

But there's a story to be told here by a magazine or media outlet, no doubt. Even if every manager connected to the band gives a "no comment" response if asked in an official capacity, that too is part of the story.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 03, 2020, 02:32:23 PM
Thanks B.E, rab2591, SMiLE Brian, and CenturyDeprived.

I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.

Right. Since it was being heavily discussed at the time, I included it for reference, and as an example of something asked and answered, as Stebbins' August 22nd reply did.

As for the unanimous vote thing, I've seen it discussed in a few places, and implied everywhere, since many posts are pondering why one certain member would want to halt it. But if it is in fact majority, then thinking it through logically (even if logic doesn't apply to the complicated relationships as band members and as individuals), then I'd say the two least likely veto votes would be Al, who teased it and had apparently been listening to it on tour before the shutdown, and Brian who "went hardcore on the '69-'71 era" for the liners. The two vetoes leave the obvious Mike, with the history of holdups, memory-holing the era on American Family, who has been silent since the 4th of July and who sidestepped the vault question, and then Carl's estate.

I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but I recall discussions about Carl's estate voting with Mike before on things? Other than voting with him, I don't know what issues there'd be. Was it Carl and Dennis that bickered on the track list for Surf's Up, and Carl axed a bunch of Dennis' songs, or I am misremembering or simplifying it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2020, 02:32:36 PM
It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.

I suppose all of these scenarios would have varying levels of plausibility in the theoretical (I'm not sure huge public controversies would ensue over issues related to Bob Burchman or Gregg Jacobson). Material with those writers has been issued and reissued many times even in recent years, so I've never heard of new renewed legal beefs about any of that.

I mean, they even released one song on "Hawthorne, CA" back in 2001 ("Lonely Days") that had *no* songwriting credit, because nobody could remember who wrote it, right?

In any event, none of that is at play with this release from what I've heard. The whole thing is done and ready. As I've said many times, the content of the set (and I'm using a very broad definition of "content" that would include tracklisting, mixing, clearing of credits and rights, booklets, cover art, etc.) is not what's holding things up. As I've also said many times, the content *not* being an issue is precisely why it has been strongly suggested that it's worth telling the band and related parties that this set should be released, because it's still possible to make happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 03, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.

I have thought about this also, but the insiders have seemingly dispelled this theory with what they've said that's far.

Plus, I could virtually bet that *if* that's the cause, that those folks could be paid off via a fundraiser or something. Even the record label wants this to be released, there's no way that some random songwriter is holding this up for $10 million and not budging. I just don't buy that.

Again, to believe this has something *other* than to do with Mike is to be of the opinion that Mike not mentioning the 49/50 anniversary of the 70/71  albums, plus Brian's page comically snubbing Mike in a recent post, are simply coincidences that have nothing to do with what's going on.

Does that sound logical? I'm of the opinion that it doesn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2020, 02:41:08 PM
Thanks B.E, rab2591, SMiLE Brian, and CenturyDeprived.

I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.

Right. Since it was being heavily discussed at the time, I included it for reference, and as an example of something asked and answered, as Stebbins' August 22nd reply did.

As for the unanimous vote thing, I've seen it discussed in a few places, and implied everywhere, since many posts are pondering why one certain member would want to halt it. But if it is in fact majority, then thinking it through logically (even if logic doesn't apply to the complicated relationships as band members and as individuals), then I'd say the two least likely veto votes would be Al, who teased it and had apparently been listening to it on tour before the shutdown, and Brian who "went hardcore on the '69-'71 era" for the liners. The two vetoes leave the obvious Mike, with the history of holdups, memory-holing the era on American Family, who has been silent since the 4th of July and who sidestepped the vault question, and then Carl's estate.

I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but I recall discussions about Carl's estate voting with Mike before on things? Other than voting with him, I don't know what issues there'd be. Was it Carl and Dennis that bickered on the track list for Surf's Up, and Carl axed a bunch of Dennis' songs, or I am misremembering or simplifying it?

I'm not sure where people have gotten the idea that unanimous votes are needed for archival releases. I don't know if people are assuming it's one person that could hold something up, and then working their way backwards from that to assume it has to be unanimous, or what.

I think the teams over the years working on sets are pretty sensitive to individual track vetoes, even sometimes from non-corporate members (I recall that Bruce asked "I Write the Songs" to be removed from the Knebworth '80 DVD and CD, though he may have had some actual legal say due to being the producer on that project; I'm not sure).

But once they've commissioned for a set to be made, and it has been compiled, mixed, mastered, etc.; years of work done on it, and it's ready to release, I think once money and resources have been laid out, a majority vote would take the day.

Of the relative few public references to actual BRI votes (e.g. various public court filings, and then an interview with Mike about the L&M soundtrack from the last few years), we've seen references to non-unanimous votes.

I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 03, 2020, 02:54:06 PM
Paging Cameron Crowe...

Crowe's 2000 film "Almost Famous" very specifically made me a fan of this band, via the mini infomercial that Crowe snuck in there for Pet Sounds. I was a casual fan before that, but that scene in the film specifically caused me to dig deeper. Several years later I was able to thank him in person when I ran into him at a BW show.  

Countless other watchers of that film dug deeper into this band because he chose the song "Feel Flows" in the end credits. (I'm guessing that was the very first time that song was licensed in any sort of Hollywood film? I would be shocked if there was an earlier example.) Crowe CLEARLY thinks highly of the 70-71 period of this band. He CLEARLY thought that was a significant song to put in his film. He's a music geek and scholar. This song being in that movie was no accident. Crowe is probably the most high profile person to specifically give center stage to the material of this band from this era, especially at that relatively early date of 2000.

I've purchased countless thousand$$$ of dollars of Beach Boys product since becoming a fan of this band via that film's kind nudging. Doesn't the band want more of my hard-earned money? Don't they want more fans, more fans' money, and most importantly for the gospel of The Beach Boys, and THE HEALING POWER OF MUSIC to continue doing its thing? This set will make new fans, and it will certainly get people to throw more money at the band and brand name.  

The release of this box set will mean more TV shows and movies will license the band's music in the future. No doubt.

Cameron Crowe, or somebody connected to him, should give a tweet, or drop a line to somebody at Rolling Stone. If ever there was a time when somebody famous with connections could come in handy, it's now.  Help us, Obie Won KaCrowebe - you're our only hope.

Maybe Crowe has already casually heard about this set, but isn't aware of the jeopardy it is in, or that maybe some tweets/emails/phone calls could maybe make a difference. The set needs a high profile champion. Look at how great folks like Guercio or Stebbins, for example championed Denny's solo album in '77 and '08, and nudged it towards the finish line? Or how it took Darian and the 'Mints to get Brian to finally realize SMiLE?  Howie, Jon, Alan, Mark have all done phenomenal work here, but someone else needs to come along and grease the wheels via whatever means necessary. The ball needs to keep rolling.

Somebody must know somebody connected to Crowe. Let's put our thinking caps here on people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 03, 2020, 04:02:15 PM
Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 03, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.
The idea of the label getting cold feet actually sounds slightly plausible once you read this quote from Howie from July: "It forever changes how The Beach Boys will be viewed as (a) musical entity at the beginning of the decade". There must be some serious revelations on it.

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 03, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
100% agreed. At the end of the day that’s all that matters


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.
The idea of the label getting cold feet actually sounds slightly plausible once you read this quote from Howie from July: "It forever changes how The Beach Boys will be viewed as (a) musical entity at the beginning of the decade". There must be some serious revelations on it.

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

Jon Stebbin's posted that the label wants this thing out there. So it is obviously not the label.

Billy, I don't think this thing is getting released either. I'm still going to share the petition, still going to beg those in a position of influence to do whatever they can. But at this point I think this thing is done with. I don't know what the hell happened, but I hope it was for a damn good reason. Otherwise, they just let down a TON of fans, let down the makers of the boxset, and most of all let down the ever-evolving historical record of this band.

f*** it, if people think the legacy is completely set in stone, so be it. But good grief, something like this could have massive influence on how rock press talks about The Beach Boys. Just like how now SMiLE is very much part of The Beach Boys lore now instead of being just a minor footnote. Major archival releases help define who bands are and how the current (and future) generations see the band. This won't at all diminish their amazing 60s output, rather it gives us an entirely new perspective on the post-60s era that will only make every person involved in this set MORE MONEY.

Again, I don't know what the hell happened, but I'm assuming if Howie came here to spill the beans about it to get some word going around, I'm betting the problem is something completely petty and trivial. Otherwise, if it were something heartfelt/serious I'm sure Howie would've respected the decision to shelve the thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 03, 2020, 04:42:24 PM
But that’s the thing though....it was already signed off on if I understood correctly. Legally speaking once that happens, isn’t Capitol the only ones who can shelve it at that point?

I just hate the fact the all of the hard work put into it is so far going to waste


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on September 03, 2020, 04:45:27 PM
Countless other watchers of that film dug deeper into this band because he chose the song "Feel Flows" in the end credits. (I'm guessing that was the very first time that song was licensed in any sort of Hollywood film? I would be shocked if there was an earlier example.) Crowe CLEARLY thinks highly of the 70-71 period of this band. He CLEARLY thought that was a significant song to put in his film. He's a music geek and scholar. This song being in that movie was no accident. Crowe is probably the most high profile person to specifically give center stage to the material of this band from this era, especially at that relatively early date of 2000.

I've always kinda assumed that Crowe chose "Feel Flows", at least in part, as a tribute to Carl. This was Crowe's first film since Carl's death. Has Crowe ever commented on that? Just a curiosity...



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 03, 2020, 04:46:08 PM
If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 03, 2020, 04:58:06 PM

I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.


Fans have been speaking. Over 1100 so far signed a petition. How many more signatures are needed? How many more social media posts are needed? So some fans don't like petitions, but it's an organized way for fans to come together and make their voices heard on a single topic.

Others are silent. Not radio silence, not dead air...at this point maybe "gag order" is a better description? Who knows.

Does anyone among band members and related parties care? Is anyone listening to fans doing exactly what's been suggested?

I think if the answer is "no", and no one is listening to the fans, then perhaps knowing at some point the who and the why would be very important.

Actually what's probably most important would be for someone to at least acknowledge the fans' voices. This radio silence or gag order makes it seem like no one gives a sh*t. And on top of that, other fans saying it's a waste of time...WHY is it a waste of time if no one knows who or why the set got shelved and no release date is in sight?

What a farce.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 03, 2020, 05:04:06 PM
If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit
At this point, I Will BUY MULTIPLE COPIES AND GIVE THEM TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD AND EH(*gasp*). PHYSICAL AND DIGITAL. That's how badly I want this damn thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 03, 2020, 05:09:08 PM

I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.


Fans have been speaking. Over 1100 so far signed a petition. How many more signatures are needed? How many more social media posts are needed? So some fans don't like petitions, but it's an organized way for fans to come together and make their voices heard on a single topic.

Others are silent. Not radio silence, not dead air...at this point maybe "gag order" is a better description? Who knows.

Does anyone among band members and related parties care? Is anyone listening to fans doing exactly what's been suggested?

I think if the answer is "no", and no one is listening to the fans, then perhaps knowing at some point the who and the why would be very important.

Actually what's probably most important would be for someone to at least acknowledge the fans' voices. This radio silence or gag order makes it seem like no one gives a sh*t. And on top of that, other fans saying it's a waste of time...WHY is it a waste of time if no one knows who or why the set got shelved and no release date is in sight?

What a farce.

Agreed 1000%


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 03, 2020, 05:09:34 PM
If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit
At this point, I Will BUY MULTIPLE COPIES AND GIVE THEM TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD AND EH(*gasp*). PHYSICAL AND DIGITAL. That's how badly I want this damn thing.

Famous last words! 😂 Maybe add a caveat that one has to buy our next album first 😏


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 03, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
Has anyone communicated with any of the adult children of the band? If this box is being junked for petty reasons as I suspect, I could imagine the adult children of the bandmembers, or at least some of them, might privately be upset and have major discontent over this. I'm sure they were very much looking forward to it. How could they not be?

Imagine, a game-changer that has the potential to elevate the artistic stature of your late parent, yet somebody wants to make damn sure to their last breath that nobody in the world ever gets to hear that music. Despicable. If petty reasons are behind it, that is truly despicable. I'm sure at minimum the children know that the set exists but is being held back, even if the nuance of exact reasons aren't 100% clear to them.

Perhaps one of them might be willing to share the petition. And then another one. Or at least comment on the petition or the box one way or another.

Are they all collectively realistically going to sit quietly about this music for the rest of their days? (I find it hard to imagine that not one of them is deeply upset about this). Not that this getting released is their fight per se, but on the other hand, maybe it actually is.

I think it's only a matter of time before somebody on the inside, or with connections to the inside, spills the beans about what's going on.

Or better yet, in lieu of bean-splilling, the adult children who presumably would be upset that their parents' music is being hung out to dry could band together to create some behind-the-scenes healthy, mature communication between the camps which will simply result in the box being released, and the true reasons can simply disappear into the ether while we enjoy the music and pad the pockets of all of the bandmembers and estates.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: badfinger_74 on September 04, 2020, 04:53:47 PM
So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 04, 2020, 05:11:48 PM
So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.


I think that is my feeling as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 04, 2020, 07:06:07 PM
If so he needs to get over himself. This is Mike’s last chance to give himself any sort of artistic legacy other than the guy who f***ed over Brian at every turn


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 05, 2020, 06:31:59 AM
I think these Q&A excerpts with Mike (from Uncut, posted at http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=24884.50;wap2 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=24884.50;wap2)) helps put things into perspective a bit. You can boycott, petition, and comment online all you want against what you perceive to be his decisions, but when you catch a glimpse behind the scenes his decision-making process is simpler than you may believe. He's not really thinking about it much.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 05, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
Further to Junkstar's comment, I reiterate the following from an interview in Goldmine in 1992 which I referred to way up thread (like, back in March):


Quote
Capitol's treatment of the Beach Boys' catalog on CD has been fabulous. What was your impression of the slew of two-fer Beach Boys CDs?

I don't even know. I don't know.

Have you seen them?

No. I don't know. You find that amusing?

Yeah, it's hard to believe that being a Beach Boy you haven't seen something like that.

It is hard to believe. I find it hard to believe too.

Why is that?

Why is that? Because I'm a Pisces, is that a good answer [uproarious laughter]? That's as good as I can come up with. There is nothing that we can do to stop them from merchandising our records the way they want to merchandise them so we're at their mercy. So if they've done something that in the opinion of the caring public is well done, then I'm glad to hear it.

http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html

I gather that's not quite the case in relation to Feel Flows, but it's equally clear that the fate of archival releases is not what keeps Mike awake at night. So if it's indeed Mike who's the sticking point, it was probably some decision he made in a high-handed moment of pique and promptly forgot about. Certainly he doesn't feel any affection for the "core of people absorbed in knowing everything about everything", because he thinks of us as Brian Wilson cultists who don't give him his due.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 05, 2020, 08:17:45 AM
Thanks Junkstar and William.

I do think that the petition is more about letting every band member know how badly we want this set (because for all we know Mike isn't the one blocking this thing). Few people in the fandom have an open door to Mike's world, those that do don't seem to care much at all about this set. Thus, if it is Mike blocking this set, I would hope that Brian, Al, Bruce, Totten, etc would see that a grassroots petition (with no traction whatsoever) has gained 1,140+ signatures and pass the word along to Mike. The petition is a way for whoever is blocking this set to be made aware that many fans are hoping for this ray of light in a year that has been completely abysmal for mostly everyone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 05, 2020, 10:40:10 AM
The petition is about to break 1,300 signatures. As I said in the last post, the fans are speaking: How many more "goals" on this thing will be necessary? It's that no one is acknowledging it which is the frustration. The fans are doing what was recommended. And the numbers are still growing, with no coverage from any music press and going on grassroots word-of-mouth among fans with an interest.

As far as the various "camps" and this set - They know. I'm sure they know there is a petition too, and I'm sure they're made aware of what's happening in this discussion. And we know both camps are aware of the music - Al said the test pressings were played on the tour bus before Covid shut down the touring industry, so people on the BW bus heard it. Bruce teased it too, even suggesting what was perhaps a preliminary release date - He knows what's on the set. So both the Brian and Mike bands are more than aware. And as fans themselves, I'm sure band members would love to have this set in their collections.

The only problem is things hit a brick wall, and beyond that I'll use the term "gag order" to describe the scenario since no one is saying a word.

Whatever or whoever the reason may be, it must be something no one wants to discuss. And it just fuels more speculation and finger pointing.

Put the thing out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 05, 2020, 12:53:43 PM
So I made a comment on ESQ's facebook post regarding the 10th anniversary of Al Jardine's 'Postcard from California' expressing my disappointment at the lack of coverage regarding this box set, and received a PERSONAL MESSAGE, asking why I was taking "unnecessary shots" at ESQ and inquiring what behind-the-scenes disaster I was referring to in my comment (you can decide for yourself if anything I said was out of line, mine is the long post including the link to the change.org petition: https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/photos/a.345125747486/10158487201832487/?comment_id=10158495305522487&notif_id=1599151752100968&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif).

Including in my response a statement of surprise and appreciation that they would take the time to personally respond to me, I asked again why there is silence regarding this previously openly acknowledged set. And mentioned that again, 1,000+ fans are eager to spend their hard-earned money on it. The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 05, 2020, 01:02:05 PM
So I made a comment on ESQ's facebook post regarding the 10th anniversary of Al Jardine's 'Postcard from California' expressing my disappointment at the lack of coverage regarding this box set, and received a PERSONAL MESSAGE, asking why I was taking "unnecessary shots" at ESQ and inquiring what behind-the-scenes disaster I was referring to in my comment (you can decide for yourself if anything I said was out of line, mine is the long post including the link to the change.org petition: https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/photos/a.345125747486/10158487201832487/?comment_id=10158495305522487&notif_id=1599151752100968&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif).

Including in my response a statement of surprise and appreciation that they would take the time to personally respond to me, I asked again why there is silence regarding this previously openly acknowledged set. And mentioned that again, 1,000+ fans are eager to spend their hard-earned money on it. The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

Unfortunately your comment has been deleted. Nice to know ESQ is on the fans’ side   ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 05, 2020, 01:08:34 PM
Since they deleted and/or hid my comment here is a screenshot I took...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 05, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
I must say, each year I've more and more questioned the value of my ESQ subscription.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 05, 2020, 01:23:58 PM
No question for me after that. Wow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on September 05, 2020, 01:28:03 PM
Quite similar to the moderation style of Mike Love's socials. Lost a lot of respect for ESQ over the last few years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 05, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
ESQ had that article said BW was an invalid “singing along” with his band... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 05, 2020, 01:55:28 PM
What a disgusting and despicable slap to the face of every Beach Boys fan. It's basically the powers that be confirming that they are boycotting us and the petition, and the hard dedicated work of Howie, Mark Linett, Alan Boyd, Ian, c-man, Jon Stebbins, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, Dennis Wilson, Carl Wilson, etc. No respect is left for ESQ and those involved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 05, 2020, 02:11:53 PM
I wonder what sort of numbers on the petition signatures would be considered significant. I guess 1,300 might suggest that box could be expected to generate at least around $130,000 in sales. That said, I would imagine higher sales would be expected as well as required to justify the release. Someone here must have an idea how many units Made In California sold?

Maybe 10,000 signatures would make a difference on the basis that you would then be looking at guaranteed sales in excess of $1,000,000.

I guess at the moment the petition makes little to difference other than being a part of the general conversation among the likes of us which is at least keeping the topic on the agenda.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 05, 2020, 03:47:20 PM
This ESQ’s response (and deleting the comment) is a shame but not surprising at all, especially if you see what’s happening since 2016.
You could imagine that they would see the fans side (and they’re fans like us) and share this petition, but guess who would retaliate not giving exclusive interviews, access to backstage, etc
Not defending here, because I really think it was disrespectful deleting the commentary and answering like that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 05, 2020, 07:52:15 PM
I see some ridiculous talk elsewhere about fans supposedly acting "entitled" regarding this set. Would like to set the record straight on this one: Fans were informed by one of the makers of the set that the set has no scheduled release date. Then Jon Stebbins came on the forum to clarify Howie's post: that this wasn't an issue with COVID, the problem had to do with a circular firing squad. Oddly enough, that information (plus the information about copyright deadline) made some fans worried that we would never even hear a lot of what is on this set (if anything at all). Hence, what some seem to hilariously see as "entitled" is merely a lot of worried fans wondering what is going on with the set.

The Smile Sessions had three official release dates. THREE! The date kept getting pushed back (for whatever reasons), but the fact is that they had a planned release date early on when the set was nearing completion. Feel Flows does not have this, which is what is concerning fans. So what some ridiculously call "entitlement" is just some logical puzzlement from fans which has evolved into petitions and questioning those who could give us answers....OH THE HUMANITY!

Perhaps we should all just sit on our hands? Perhaps no fan should actually act like a fan? Perhaps no one should have any enthusiasm about any future release again? What a fun fandom that sounds like ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 05, 2020, 08:18:39 PM
I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 05, 2020, 10:50:57 PM
I see some ridiculous talk elsewhere about fans supposedly acting "entitled" regarding this set. Would like to set the record straight on this one: Fans were informed by one of the makers of the set that the set has no scheduled release date. Then Jon Stebbins came on the forum to clarify Howie's post: that this wasn't an issue with COVID, the problem had to do with a circular firing squad. Oddly enough, that information (plus the information about copyright deadline) made some fans worried that we would never even hear a lot of what is on this set (if anything at all). Hence, what some seem to hilariously see as "entitled" is merely a lot of worried fans wondering what is going on with the set.

The Smile Sessions had three official release dates. THREE! The date kept getting pushed back (for whatever reasons), but the fact is that they had a planned release date early on when the set was nearing completion. Feel Flows does not have this, which is what is concerning fans. So what some ridiculously call "entitlement" is just some logical puzzlement from fans which has evolved into petitions and questioning those who could give us answers....OH THE HUMANITY!

Perhaps we should all just sit on our hands? Perhaps no fan should actually act like a fan? Perhaps no one should have any enthusiasm about any future release again? What a fun fandom that sounds like ::)

Exactly. Not only that some of us actually CARE about the band’s legacy , apparently more than the band does. Or , rather, one person. Sadly its the one who has the say so.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 05, 2020, 11:03:43 PM


Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

That just means we all need to keep pushing this petition until the number is too large to ignore. Let's send direct, private messages to friends and fellow music fans, and see if we can spread the word in a direct, personal, and non-spam-like way.


ESQ's dismissal of the current signature count implies that a "large" number may be something that will cause FF's existence to be addressed, grudgingly of not, in *some* fashion, unless I'm misunderstanding their reply.

The band, either via individual members, their management, or whatever mouthpiece they may be communicating through, will at some point have to address this box. Either they'll have to give some excuse which covers up the actual reasons, or they will have to address the real reasons, but they won't be able to just ignore a persistent group of well meaning fans who are searching for answers about this. You can't put toothpaste back into the tube and that's what they're trying to do here it would seem. Too much has been said about the box by too many people.

I think the real reasons why this isn't coming out are perhaps embarrassing and would not have good optics for someone involved. I can't think of any other reason for some sort of conspiracy of silence which seems to be the case.

And hopefully, a much better alternative for all parties involved, as opposed to awkward public obfuscation/discussion/avoidance of the reasons for the delay would just be to release the box, and let the fans empty their wallets for the band's benefit.

The fact that Brian's social media pages have recently repeatedly hinted to Brian being on the side of releasing/acknowledging the box (I take the "feel flows" live clip, as well as the shout outs to the album anniversaries as being not-so-subtle hints to fans) as evidence that Brian wants this music out.

Brian is the last person, after all he's been through, to have to worry about whether music he wants to be released can eventually come out or not. For whatever reasons are behind it, it's painful to think that at this late stage in the game he and his side have to be fighting some sort of fight to honor the music that he and his late brothers made so many years ago. That should piss every fan off royally.

Let's continue this fight for Brian and the late Wilsons, if for no other reason. It's a noble cause, as far as I'm concerned. I can't see any opposition to FF having any legitimacy.

The overall silence from all parties tells me the reasons are rooted in some giant amount of BS - and once again, to me, that points to it being a Mike issue in some form. The way the ESQ has to stay quiet and not rock the boat for fear of not getting future interviews with Mike? I think the same must be true for Brian, not for fear of losing interviews of course, but for potentially inflaming a situation with a very litigious guy who has shown a history of doing all sorts of awful things out of retaliation. If Brian's page decided to just post publicly and say "we want to release this, but Mike is making these demands, or outright refusing because of XYZ", that could make this and other band situations 10 times worse, so I *hope* that the continued silence  means there's some behind the scenes attempts at convincing, negotiation or communication still happening in some fashion which could be the reason for the silence from everyone involved.

Just my humble opinion on what seems logical to me at this point. Maybe I'm wrong, but none of this seems completely outlandish to me. Everyone involved isn't just staying silent for the fun of it. There's got to be some reason. The parties clearly have something to lose by speaking about it publicly at this point. Once again, I think it's a bit naïve to think that Brian and Al publicly humiliating Mike back in February with the very well-covered anti hunting fiasco would have 100% nothing to do with the situation. When has Mike ever struck anybody has a guy who would just take something like that on the chin, shrug it off, and then *not* try to retaliate to whoever "wronged" him?  

I think continued silence says there's still some attempts at things being worked out, or perhaps this box is being used as a pawn in some way which is gross, but if it winds up meaning the box gets released then I don't really care what has to happen to get that result.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 06, 2020, 02:15:05 AM
Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Radfahrer on September 06, 2020, 03:50:39 AM
Maybe we could get Robin Pecknold (Fleet Foxes) on board? It seems that he is a big fan of the Sunflower/Surf's Up-era. He even mentioned Feel Flows in the liner notes for the first Fleet Foxes album. He's very active on Instagram and seems to read messages by fans. And he got a big and active community following him.

In my option it's import to raise the awareness of this dilemma. At some point the band or members of the band have to comment publicily. The sooner the better as this topic could cause a lasting rift inside the fan community. I thought it's all about harmony...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 06, 2020, 06:48:07 AM
A few minutes earlier I saw a post from The Daily Beatle blog about a release from last year that was made available maybe for a few seconds, and then was unavailable with some Beatles outtakes from 1969, and who made this happen was Apple/Universal:

https://open.spotify.com/album/1Na3Ts9thPv4JoEoF2f0v9?si=g5d-1YKeSOGgDmTTjjPw-Q

Maybe if BRI/Capitol would do this at least with the 1970 tracks from Feel Flows while they’ll try to work whatever issues are preventing now the box to be released


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 06, 2020, 07:17:48 AM
Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 06, 2020, 08:25:05 AM
Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.

So they'll keep moving the goal posts like a politician in order to suit their agenda, I suppose? This is awful behavior and incredibly transparent. Reeks of trying to coddle the egotistical gross whims of someone behind the scenes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 06, 2020, 08:34:22 AM
Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.

I bet when ESQ broke the 1,000 subscriber mark they were pretty darn happy about it and didn't look at that number in a condescending way. Likewise, this petition has basically been spread by word-of-mouth...No big names have endorsed the petition, nor have any media outlets talked about it (the trophy hunting petition only blew up after the media and Brian Wilson got involved with the petition). So 1,300 signatures is a pretty good number all things considered.

Shame that they dismissed the petition number. It is also more interesting that they inquired about what "behind-the-scenes disaster" you were referring to regarding Feel Flows. I guess this could mean many things:

1) ESQ knows nothing about any "behind-the-scenes disaster" and are completely clueless about any problems with the Feel Flows boxset
2) ESQ knows nothing about any "behind-the-scenes disaster" because they know the set now has a release date
3) There are so many behind-the-scenes disasters regarding Feel Flows that they legitimately didn't know which one you're referring to
4) They don't want to publicly get involved in an internal band scuffle because it would keep them from access to certain band members in the future (as AlanJames wrote above) and decided to play dumb
 
#4 is the most likely and I really can't blame them...they have a business to uphold, so I do understand. Keeping in mind the reason we want their help to spread the word is because they have a very large following. But they have that large following because they have kept to a successful business model (a business model that likely keeps them out of band politics for the most part).

Here are things from our perspective: a band member said that an amazing boxset was supposed to come out in February 2020, so of course all of us fans are dying to hear this music. It is now September 2020 and the only official word we've heard recently is that this set isn't scheduled to even be released. So I hope that ESQ, the band, those in each camp can entirely understand why we're puzzled by everything and want some answers. Are we entitled to answers? Hell no. But if us fans were entirely void of selfishness we wouldn't even be fans in the first place.

We've all spent thousands of dollars supporting this band, all we're asking is that we can each give them a couple hundred more for this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 06, 2020, 08:50:45 AM
This is a gold mine for the rock press if someone will just show enough gumption to put the track list together with Cork's timeline and pass it on.

To all those responding to ESQ and its comments to the poster, do keep in mind that it is the equivalent of the "embedded press" in Iraq ca. 2007.

And, of course, over at "the other place" Mr. Suppressive Personality is trying to cram "entitlement" down people's throats in order to shut them up. Who knew that Bill Barr had a doppelganger living in England?  :3d

And he and his cronies are seizing upon a series of speculations about how such archival projects get approved for release to distort the issue further. No, we're not surprised at the tactics of Mr. Suppressive Personality and those who continue to enable him.

To boil down Cork's terrific timeline reconstruction: the fans did not sneak into the BB's vaults, concoct a track list for material there from 1969-71, and demand a release of it on general principles.

No, what happened was that a group of long-time collaborators spent countless hours working the project through the minefields of this fractured group, and brought the project to completion, per Howie's comments here. As noted from comments/interpretations of Cork's timeline, something went awry in the 3-4 week period from June 19-July 13 and we now have the heaviest of all iron curtains slammed down on the project as if it never existed in the first place.

Given all that, we are 1000% entitled to know what is going on. We can't force the group to release this, of course. We are not "entitled" to do that.

But we deserve to know what has happened. And we have every right to advocate for its release.

Let's see--1300 fans at, what $100 a copy for a 5-CD set? That's $130,000 just from the hard-core fans. (And that number continue to grow.) What are the sales figures on the Sunshine series? What were the sales figures on TSS, or the GV box set back in the day? Let's have an empirical point of comparison on this, instead of blowhards ordering us to STFU.

It's important to keep the pressure up so that, if nothing else, what happened to derail this project will see the light of day. The media is the way to make this happen. Surely someone will realize that the balance of the BBs archive beyond 1969-71 is not worth just walking away from this apparent fiasco with one's tail between one's legs. As Billy said, FEEL FLOWS is the last chance for the band to use any release to put a bonafide artistic feather in their cap. If they don't put this out, it will be the dumbest thing they've ever done--and that, of course, is saying more than a mouthful, now, isn't it?  :smokin

Also--keep spreading the word about FEEL FLOWS. Let's get the signatures on the petition up as high as possible. Let's keep upping the ante! If we can get the potential revenue from fans who want this set heading in the direction of $500K, something's going to have to give.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 06, 2020, 09:14:14 AM
This is a gold mine for the rock press if someone will just show enough gumption to put the track list together with Cork's timeline and pass it on.

To all those responding to ESQ and its comments to the poster, do keep in mind that it is the equivalent of the "embedded press" in Iraq ca. 2007.

And, of course, over at "the other place" Mr. Suppressive Personality is trying to cram "entitlement" down people's throats in order to shut them up. Who knew that Bill Barr had a doppelganger living in England?  :3d

And he and his cronies are seizing upon a series of speculations about how such archival projects get approved for release to distort the issue further. No, we're not surprised at the tactics of Mr. Suppressive Personality and those who continue to enable him.

To boil down Cork's terrific timeline reconstruction: the fans did not sneak into the BB's vaults, concoct a track list for material there from 1969-71, and demand a release of it on general principles.

No, what happened was that a group of long-time collaborators spent countless hours working the project through the minefields of this fractured group, and brought the project to completion, per Howie's comments here. As noted from comments/interpretations of Cork's timeline, something went awry in the 3-4 week period from June 19-July 13 and we now have the heaviest of all iron curtains slammed down on the project as if it never existed in the first place.

Given all that, we are 1000% entitled to know what is going on. We can't force the group to release this, of course. We are not "entitled" to do that.

But we deserve to know what has happened. And we have every right to advocate for its release.

Let's see--1300 fans at, what $100 a copy for a 5-CD set? That's $130,000 just from the hard-core fans. (And that number continue to grow.) What are the sales figures on the Sunshine series? What were the sales figures on TSS, or the GV box set back in the day? Let's have an empirical point of comparison on this, instead of blowhards ordering us to STFU.

It's important to keep the pressure up so that, if nothing else, what happened to derail this project will see the light of day. The media is the way to make this happen. Surely someone will realize that the balance of the BBs archive beyond 1969-71 is not worth just walking away from this apparent fiasco with one's tail between one's legs. As Billy said, FEEL FLOWS is the last chance for the band to use any release to put a bonafide artistic feather in their cap. If they don't put this out, it will be the dumbest thing they've ever done--and that, of course, is saying more than a mouthful, now, isn't it?  :smokin

Also--keep spreading the word about FEEL FLOWS. Let's get the signatures on the petition up as high as possible. Let's keep upping the ante! If we can get the potential revenue from fans who want this set heading in the direction of $500K, something's going to have to give.

On top of that, another great reason for someone in the rock press to bring this up, a tagline of sorts, could be posing the question "why would a band turn down potential of upwards of a quarter million dollars in revenue during the times of the pandemic when most other revenue streams have dried up"?

That, combined with the silence, spells that something is rotten in Denmark.

Hell, let's make this the biggest fan-driven kerfuffle in the history of rock music where the fans are the ones raising a stink to the point where they cannot be ignored. That's another interesting part of this story. That the fans believe in the music so much and love it so dearly that they would be so passionate in their quest for answers.

The whole thing doesn't line up, and that's what is so interesting to be examined from a journalistic perspective. Since when does Mike, of all people, turn down money? Arguably the most money hungry person in the history of rock music, who bitches about profit margins and such during his quest to absolve himself of responsibility for ruining C50… How is that guy turning down extra money when his revenue streams from playing live music have dried up? How does that make sense?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 06, 2020, 09:40:08 AM
Mike Love sucks....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 06, 2020, 09:58:57 AM
The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on September 06, 2020, 10:18:22 AM
3) There are so many behind-the-scenes disasters regarding Feel Flows that they legitimately didn't know which one you're referring to

 :lol  :lol  :lol   Thanks, I needed that.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on September 06, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on September 06, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

You know, that probably has to qualify as post of the year and I hope FreakySmiley would consider throwing that one back at ESQ.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on September 06, 2020, 11:42:06 AM
Chill...         Please ....   I believe good things will come...    When the stars align.....     Wait..........  Patience is a good quality...



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 06, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 06, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 06, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
Maybe we could get Robin Pecknold (Fleet Foxes) on board? It seems that he is a big fan of the Sunflower/Surf's Up-era. He even mentioned Feel Flows in the liner notes for the first Fleet Foxes album. He's very active on Instagram and seems to read messages by fans. And he got a big and active community following him.

In my option it's import to raise the awareness of this dilemma. At some point the band or members of the band have to comment publicily. The sooner the better as this topic could cause a lasting rift inside the fan community. I thought it's all about harmony...

Or how about Sean O'Hagen of the The High Llamas? I'd say he was not only a fan of that era but expressed it quite well in his writing. Hawaii anyone?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 06, 2020, 12:53:09 PM
Actually, I think there's a better explanation for all of this: Capitol are not allowed to release anything at this point, other than Pet Sounds anniversary editions. Next year is another big one - 55 years of Pet Sounds!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 06, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on September 06, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 06, 2020, 03:17:53 PM
Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?

Stebbins said the hold wasn’t due to COVID.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 06, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it

+1

Let's not give up this fight. Not now, not ever. There is NO way I can conceive this is being held up or canceled for any legitimate reason. I feel like we all need a peptalk here!

Brian wants this box out. (His socials wouldn't be dropping hints if he wanted to quash fans from keeping this era's material in mind). That's reason enough to keep fighting, to not stay silent but to keep spreading the word, and to remain optimistic that there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

Whoever is trying to eliminate this box it from existence would very much like every fan who is complaining to simply stop complaining, and for this to be buried. Why would fans want to give in to such a dastardly desire that somebody in power unfortunately surely has?

The way the Beautiful Dreamer doc showed a weight was lifted off Brian's shoulders when SMiLE was finally completed and presented? After all the BS baggage he'd dealt with from others (Mike namely, per Brian's own words in that doc)... not that this era's music necessarily means quite as much to Brian by comparison, but I think the circumstantial evidence shows he wants this music released, and it should stoke a fire in every fan to *continue* to do everything possible to see that Brian's wishes would not be blocked for any reason, and not give in to blocking reasons that surely amount to assclownery.

IMHO, it's a slap in the face to Brian, to his late brothers, and to the wonderful folks who slaved over assembling this set, for us to just be negative, pessimistic, fold our cards and be inactive about this.

At a certain point, the band known as the Beach Boys will no longer be playing shows, and that revenue stream will dry up. And archival releases (and licensing) will be the only way to continue monetizing the brand. This is why I am optimistic, and feel at some point this music is going to come out, but of course it should come out now.

This can't stay locked up forever when there is demand that will equate into the six figures, Plus a bunch of positive press. And when there is money to be made by journalists getting ad revenue to write about this and investigate what's going on here. Which I heartily welcome.

It's completely nuts to think that we have to be fighting for this - fighting for the band to *make* money and get *positive* press, but such is the situation with this ridiculous yet fantastic band. Put a disgruntled, vengeful narcissist with a giant chip on their shoulder in a band and watch what happens, logic tells me this is probably a case study in that. Brian has been on the receiving end of vengeance for many decades, which makes me sick. This is why it does not seem out of the ordinary to assume that could have a role in what's happening here. I very much welcome evidence that shows I'm incorrect, because I actually want to be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 06, 2020, 06:53:39 PM
I don't see how they can not release at least some of the material by December. The Beach Boys have done some insanely dumb things over the years, but they aren't stupid enough to risk losing the legal right to their own recordings.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on September 06, 2020, 08:14:11 PM
I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 06, 2020, 10:00:11 PM
I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  :hat
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 06, 2020, 10:29:51 PM
I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  :hat
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.

An option of physical and/or digital is of course ideal, but I think very few fans would be egregiously upset if the full, intact set was going to be released, but digital only. Yet I cannot see what's happening here as being something that is somehow over something as grand scheme of things trivial as a behind the scenes debate/disagreement over release format. The media blackout and other circumstantial factors seem to heavily suggest the entire release is in jeopardy, regardless of format, for content reasons. As in somebody, some organization, ridiculously having a bug up their butt that it should come out at all.

Everyone would certainly agree a physical release would be nice, but the format in which this music comes out should be the absolute least important thing that fans should be concerned about. That's like worrying about if the seats are comfortable on the Titanic life rafts. To ensure it comes out whatsoever should be the focus here.  That tremendously great and historically significant music is in jeopardy for what most certainly has to be some BS reasons should royally piss everybody off. Nobody should brush it off as some sort of unimportant thing for this band. A non release would be a big deal and a very, very sad situation. Downright tragic from a music history perspective, if you ask me.

That said, one would think the band would certainly generate more income from a physical set, not to mention more critical praise and enhancement for the brand. But I will cry no tears if this comes out intact, digital only.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on September 06, 2020, 11:38:44 PM
Could it be that Mike is insisting “the band” be touring in support for such a major release?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 06, 2020, 11:46:49 PM
I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  :hat
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.

An option of physical and/or digital is of course ideal, but I think very few fans would be egregiously upset if the full, intact set was going to be released, but digital only. Yet I cannot see what's happening here as being something that is somehow over something as grand scheme of things trivial as a behind the scenes debate/disagreement over release format. The media blackout and other circumstantial factors seem to heavily suggest the entire release is in jeopardy, regardless of format, for content reasons. As in somebody, some organization, ridiculously having a bug up their butt that it should come out at all.

Everyone would certainly agree a physical release would be nice, but the format in which this music comes out should be the absolute least important thing that fans should be concerned about. That's like worrying about if the seats are comfortable on the Titanic life rafts. To ensure it comes out whatsoever should be the focus here.  That tremendously great and historically significant music is in jeopardy for what most certainly has to be some BS reasons should royally piss everybody off. Nobody should brush it off as some sort of unimportant thing for this band. A non release would be a big deal and a very, very sad situation. Downright tragic from a music history perspective, if you ask me.

That said, one would think the band would certainly generate more income from a physical set, not to mention more critical praise and enhancement for the brand. But I will cry no tears if this comes out intact, digital only.

I'm sorry you feel that way. After all the work that was put into this box set, to just toss all that aside and do it as a copyright dump would be a severe letdown. Sure, it's better than nothing, but we're Beach Boys fans, we want the world!
I am guessing that copyright dump is the way this will all go; and as far as a product for the mainstream market, it will probably be Mike's Stars and Stripes Volume 3 or whatever. I really have no desire at all to hear Mike rapping with Kanye West, or see him trying to get cozy with Taylor Swift. Of course, Mike being Mike, the best he can hope or is a duet with the little brother from Hanson, or Jessica Simpson's supertalented younger sister Ashlee.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 06, 2020, 11:52:51 PM
I'd love it if Feel Flows got the same treatment as The Smile Sessions or Made In California. But if FF as it exists now(as described by Howie) comes out only as a digital release I would be ecstatic.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 06, 2020, 11:53:42 PM
I'd love it if Feel Flows got the same treatment as The Smile Sessions or Made In California. But if FF as it exists now(as described by Howie) comes out only as a digital release I would be ecstatic.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on September 07, 2020, 12:14:10 AM
So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.

I've noticed that too. For instance, Brian's social media team wrote that the inclusion of Brian's songs on Surf's Up is what makes the album a masterpiece - and I couldn't agree more! The others were writing and recording very good, sometimes even great material around that time. But Brian's songs still made all the difference. He clearly wasn't creating as much in terms of quantity but 'Til I Die is not a song you come up with if all you ever do is lay around in bed all day. The story of him pulling back after Smile is so flawed. It's obvious that Brian was still in charge for Wild Honey and Friends, while Carl became more and more involved. He was an-on-and-off participant on the albums that followed but overall he remained a strong presence even into the Holland era.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 07, 2020, 01:44:30 AM
Perhaps there are those who would prefer to keep that myth intact... the process of avoiding the re-assessing the distribution of truth vs myth has proven most illuminating about a certain lyricist’s mindset and most depressing to watch.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 07, 2020, 09:34:53 AM
Perhaps there are those who would prefer to keep that myth intact... the process of avoiding the re-assessing the distribution of truth vs myth has proven most illuminating about a certain lyricist’s mindset and most depressing to watch.

What was Mike's perspective on Brian post-'67 in his autobiography? Did he push the bed myth there? I know he did in that ridiculous lawsuit in 2005, but I wasn't sure if he was still trying to spread that myth.

PS, great posts badfinger and phirnis.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 07, 2020, 10:35:26 AM
I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.


The entire thing is odd. Any speculation seems to be frowned upon (and people are speculating because we were given some very bad news about this set with no follow up information (and I'm not blaming Howie for this, I completely understand his current silence)). Certain people who do have sway won't even acknowledge the petition or its possible legitimacy (denigrating the number of signatures? That's pretty harsh). We're seemingly told to have patience - yet one of the creators of the set didn't seem to be optimistic at all for the release of the set...so what would we even have patience for? When we show enthusiasm for wanting the set released certain people seem to classify this as entitlement - seemingly berating anyone who makes any effort to try and nudge whoever to greenlight the set.

And the silence all around is deafening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 07, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.


The entire thing is odd. Any speculation seems to be frowned upon (and people are speculating because we were given some very bad news about this set with no follow up information (and I'm not blaming Howie for this, I completely understand his current silence)). Certain people who do have sway won't even acknowledge the petition or its possible legitimacy (denigrating the number of signatures? That's pretty harsh). We're seemingly told to have patience - yet one of the creators of the set didn't seem to be optimistic at all for the release of the set...so what would we even have patience for? When we show enthusiasm for wanting the set released certain people seem to classify this as entitlement - seemingly berating anyone who makes any effort to try and nudge whoever to greenlight the set.

And the silence all around is deafening.

Brian and Al have both acknowledged the music from this era within the last couple weeks, multiple times.  They've given shout-outs to the 50th and 49th birthdays of 2 beloved BBs albums. And 50th bdays for beloved albums don't come every day. These are not albums to be embarrassed about.  This isn't Summer In Paradise's anniversary.

One member named Mike Love has not mentioned those albums at ALL in 2020, and by looking at his social media, you'd never even know it was the birthday of those albums whatsoever. (Mike has in recent years played music such as All I Wanna Do and Til I Die live, so it's not like he outright has an allergic reaction to that music, per se).

Yet, by contrast, Mike Love's social media team HAS commented on a bunch of big (and not-so-big) anniversaries:
 
- on June 27, 2020, Mike publicly wished Bruce a happy birthday
- Brian and Al's birthdays in 2020 (crickets)
- on September 3, 2019, Mike publicly wished Al a happy birthday
- on June 27, 2019 Mike publicly wished Bruce a happy birthday
- on June 20, 2019, Mike publicly wished Brian a happy birthday
- on June 16, 2019, Mike's account went out of its way to post about the 50th anniversary of the BBs playing Prague in 1969
- on June 13, 2019,, Mike's account went out of its way to post about the 36th (?) anniversary of the BBs playing a Reagan White House event

(those last 2 anniversaries obviously can't even remotely compete with the Sunflower/Surf's Up anniversaries in terms of historical significance by any stretch of the imagination, yet they were prioritized while Sunflower/Surf's Up got ignored).

Does anyone see a pattern here? Post February 2020, Mike stopped wishing BOTH Brian and Al their annual birthday greeting. And only Brian and Al; Bruce kept getting his. Some people may laugh this off and think it's overanalyzing, but is it really? Again, Brian and Al must have royally pissed off Mikey by having the audacity to publicly speak about being outraged at his despicable hunting show.

HOW.
DARE.
THEY.

How can anyone think that something pertaining to the relationships from that point on is irrelevant to what's going on here? In other words, Mike has sour grapes and has found a way to stick it to people who have wronged him, and challenged how he used the brand. Do these circumstantial facts suggest otherwise?  Mike is very much known to be a guy who'll gladly cut off his nose to spite his own face. Plus, preceding these posts I mentioned above, there's a huge, regular pattern of Mike heavily promoting the 50th anniversary of various other BBs albums. Yet somehow, it's a coincidence that he goes publicly silent about Sunflower's 50th, AND Surf's Up's 49th, AND Brian AND Al's birthdays, yet Bruce keeps getting birthday shout-outs?

Connect the dots here, people. Convince me that Mike Love isn't causing this holdup out of reasons grown out of some sort of petty vengeance due to the events of February 2020. I can't prove it, but I think things seem to point that way. It sucks.

The fact that Mike in recent years has played music such as All I Wanna Do and Til I Die live, merely tells me he thought he could get something out of playing those songs (critical praise, perhaps, and feeling like he's competing in remotely the same league as Brian's live shows) . "What can doing XYZ do for me?" seems to be his driving force. And what's happening here with FF tells me he thinks he can get something out of f*cking with the release of this set. Either revenge, or attempting some sort of sick revising of history to try and keep media focused on the brand being the early days. Or somebody suggested Mike is maybe trying to get the "whole band" to tour for this box, which if true (I highly doubt it) would be him trying to force a reunion by holding a release hostage. Who'd want to see a reunion that would have come together out of essentially a blackmail situation? But I can't see that being what's happening here.

As rab2591 points out, the silence all around is deafening. It truly is, but most notable is Mike's silence not just about the FF set, but Mike's (and only Mike's) silence about the album anniversaries, and Mike's new (since 2020) silence about the birthdays of Brian and Al. The optics point in a certain direction.

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 07, 2020, 12:12:44 PM
With everything that's been said (or not said in this case), I have to think Love saying no to the box is a given. But if there really are only four votes, and it really is majority rule, then as Yoda says, "there is another".

If Brian and Al's anniversary social activity were an indicator (not to mention the latter's tease), it'd seem they'd want it out, which only leaves Carl's estate. What in the world would be their objection?

But then go back to "circular firing squad" and "one or two". If there are only three living, voting members, Carl's estate in a "firing squad" makes no sense, which leaves Mike vs Brian and/or Al. If majority rules, then Brian and Al could simply ignore him, no? Logically then, at least one of those two are voting no as well, which also doesn't make a lot of sense.

There's just not enough information to confidently pinpoint which other party or parties are involved and the precise issues with it, but with all we've been given, I can't imagine the reasons not being spectacularly stupid and petty.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 07, 2020, 12:18:16 PM
Bruce's birthday:

Al tweeted in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 (but he was a day late)

Brian tweeted never

Mike tweeted each year until now - but only on Facebook in 2020

David tweeted never.

Conclusion: Bruce is holding up the boxset because no one remembered to post a tweet for his birthday this year.

(The obvious corollary is that we only got 3 tracks last year because he was annoyed at Al for missing his birthday)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  :hat

So you're happy if only 10% of the boxed set is released digitally? You gotta read the full thread, or at least back to page 20-whatever.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.

It goes without saying that we'll deal with whatever comes out, or doesn't come out. But this thing where people are just folding their arms and kicking back and saying "whatever happens is fine", and belittling the movement to get this set released, it's just insulting.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:04:29 PM
Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?

This has been answered a number of times by multiple folks in the thread.

No, COVID has nothing to do with this set not coming out or being scheduled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on September 07, 2020, 01:05:37 PM
Bruce's birthday:

Al tweeted in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 (but he was a day late)

Brian tweeted never

Mike tweeted each year until now - but only on Facebook in 2020

David tweeted never.

Conclusion: Bruce is holding up the boxset because no one remembered to post a tweet for his birthday this year.

(The obvious corollary is that we only got 3 tracks last year because he was annoyed at Al for missing his birthday)


Hahaha damn Bruce!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
I don't see how they can not release at least some of the material by December. The Beach Boys have done some insanely dumb things over the years, but they aren't stupid enough to risk losing the legal right to their own recordings.

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:10:45 PM
Could it be that Mike is insisting “the band” be touring in support for such a major release?

No. The touring situation has nothing to do with the delays.

If anything, one would *think* there would/should be *more* motivation to move archival product as a revenue stream considering BRI is raking in next to zero from touring revenue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:18:44 PM
As I've been saying quite a bit, and I know this is frustrating, trying to guess the why/how and even who about why this set has been delayed is kind of a non-starter. There's no way someone could just guess it.

As far as the "who", I've learned over the years of fandom to never make too many assumptions. These guys have often over the years contradicted themselves and done and said things that make no sense.

Remember that I said some time back that the *content* of the set has nothing to do with the delays. As such, my common sense and BB fan sense would tell me that one wouldn't get too many clues based off of any member or members seeming to have said at various times that they appreciate the 70/71 material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 07, 2020, 01:29:58 PM
If we do end up with a digital only release, would it be overly-optimistic to draw er optimism from the fact that the 1968 release was digital-only but far from bare bones?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 07, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Idk. Without a direct statement I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but "definitely not all of them", "circular firing squad", "one or two" and "in big flashing letters" - I'm guessing when the man said he consulted with "brains" (anagram Brian) and "heart" (heart = Love), those are the two. But yeah, if it takes two to tank it and Brian and his team are the other no, I couldn't even begin to fathom the reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 07, 2020, 01:38:15 PM
If we do end up with a digital only release, would it be overly-optimistic to draw er optimism from the fact that the 1968 release was digital-only but far from bare bones?
I don't know, but if we do end up with a digital only release, i am hoping some of the physical package stuff - liner notes, etc - will leak out to the public. Or we could just call upon a team of experts - I'm not one of them - here to write some notes about the contents.
I'm sure we will get our regular 50 year copyright dumps for the material from 1970 and 1971.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:43:22 PM
I'd also like to briefly address the other message board resurrecting the strawman argument (against what I'm not sure; I guess against lobbying for this set to be released?) that fans are talking about this set out of a sense of entitlement.

That's bulls**t.

And frankly, I'd wager the folks minimizing all of this by suggesting fans are acting "entitled" are people who are out of the loop (perhaps much to their frustration) and don't know what's going on with this set. And because they don't know what's going on, they are, as Jon Stebbins put it, stumbling around and not seeing the subtext and machinations involved in why this movement to tell the band we want this released is happening. I guess I'm not surprised when a new and/or young fan doesn't see all of this subtext. But when veteran fans/scholars aren't seeing *exactly* what's going on, when those people can't see the big flashing letters and signs being held up as this movement has been undertaken, I have to admit I'm a bit surprised. There's either a weird disconnect in terms of not understanding, or other interests are being defended/protected by trying to tell fans that all of this "isn't a big deal" or "they could have been planning this release strategy all along!", etc.

The fans didn't start this. The *band* greenlit a set and paid to have it made. Then multiple band members publicly spoke about it. We then learned it has been done and ready to release for quite some time, and yet something is holding it up. Fans are telling the band "we have monies, and we'll give those monies to you if you release the thing you already commissioned and paid for, and oh yeah, the set makes the band look great too!"

None of this is about fans feeling entitled.

What fan would possibly argue AGAINST fans politely and enthusiastically asking for the band to release this set? Unless someone has some other loyalty or bias/motivation, what fan doesn't want to see a nice 1970/71 boxed set? Are there really fans that argue against fans asking for this set simply because they're out of the loop about the machinations involved in this set not coming out thus far?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2020, 01:51:26 PM
Idk. Without a direct statement I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but "definitely not all of them", "circular firing squad", "one or two" and "in big flashing letters" - I'm guessing when the man said he consulted with "brains" (anagram Brian) and "heart" (heart = Love), those are the two. But yeah, if it takes two to tank it and Brian and his team are the other no, I couldn't even begin to fathom the reasons.

There are no anagrams involved, nor synonyms.

And I think Jon's point (I don't want to speak for him of course) was not that there a bunch of hidden messages to pick up on. Quite the opposite. Simply reading what has been said, in a very literal, verbatim sense, should be all the big flashing letters you need.

It's not about hidden messages or anagrams.

It's about common sense and logic and the years of experience as BB fans.

And I don't think the point has been to name specific names. There are 87 reasons that's not easy to do, nor would it be helpful. That's why I've been saying everybody should ask/tell all the band members they want the set out. It can't hurt if you tell someone who already wants it out that you want it out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 07, 2020, 02:40:46 PM
HeyJude said “87 reasons”...  hidden meaning?

8 plus 7 eguals 15... as in 15 Big Ones? The hidden meaning is that there are 15 tracks that are holding up the box set...

8 minus 7 equals 1... meaning ONE person is holding up Feel Flows...

7 minus 8 equals negative 1... Who is the most “negative one” in the group?  

It’s all crystal clear now...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on September 07, 2020, 02:55:22 PM
HeyJude said “87 reasons”...  hidden meaning?

8 plus 7 eguals 15... as in 15 Big Ones? The hidden meaning is that there are 15 tracks that are holding up the box set...

Mike Love was born on March 15, 1941.

March 15, and
1941 : 1 + 9 + 4 + 1 = 15

Just sayin'    :lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 07, 2020, 02:55:54 PM
In addition to discussing the situation here,  those participating in this thread who feel strongly enough about it all really should take some time to contact any and all friends/acquaintances with some modicum of knowledge and appreciation of the band and explain what is happening and why adding their show of support is a valuable effort.

"Grassroots appeals" can often turn the tide if folks continue to press the issue and thus are able to preserve the momentum of the effort.

With respect to a digital-only release: we can only take what they are willing to give us. AGAIN--this is the best possible reason for someone to leak the track list of FEEL FLOWS, so that what is exactly at stake here is revealed in the brightest possible light. Howie's description of it is compelling and heartfelt but it isn't enough to demonstrate the magnitude of the project, particularly to media folks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 07, 2020, 03:29:01 PM
I also strongly disagree with those who act like the petition doesn’t matter; spreading the word on how much the fans *want* this set out is a good thing; to do otherwise is an insult to anyone who worked on the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 07, 2020, 05:38:28 PM
I can’t think of a music release I would want more (by any artist) than this Feel Flows boxset. It will be a bummer if it is not released especially having read about its existence from band members and participants for the last 10 months.

Yes, it does appear that Mike Love might be (based on the tiny amount of info we have) one of the hold outs.

Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?

And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

At most, Feel Flows is a legacy release. A money-losing vanity piece that would hopefully remind everybody how truly great the 1970-1971 Beach Boys were. And at the very least, Feel Flows is fancy damage control release for the sole purpose of retaining European copyrights (if that’s even a real thing anymore).

And for those of you who say “Mike Love’s people will never see my nasty comments anyway”, then I say “they’ll never see your petition either.”

I have no idea what any of the individual Beach Boys are thinking, but if I were to make a guess, I would GUESS that Mike is thinking solely in reunion terms, which is to say, people will be starving for uncomplicated fun in 2021… maybe a 60-date 60th anniversary summer/fall tour with guest stars galore… a cheesy new Beach Boys “Duets” CDs on the endcap of every Target and Walmart, plus a MIC-style career-spanning box in late 2021.

And if that IS what he’s thinking then, for him, Feel Flows is just some dusty for-collectors-only release that will step on upcoming reunion messaging and undermine the surprise of Big Beach Boys News in early 2021.

Like I said, I'll be bummed if Feel Flows fizzles, but if I had to choose between:
A) a Feel Flows archive set in 2020, no 2021 reunion tour, no cheesy 2021 reunion CD
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973
I’ll go with “B”  because 2021 would surely be the last time the surviving Beach Boys could pull off a reunion. And I want to get out of the house. I sure hope these guys can work it out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 07, 2020, 06:10:57 PM
Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?

Mike Derangement Syndrome :lol If Mike is the one blocking it I would hope that through the positive and negative comments that Mike could see we are a bunch of fans who just want to hear the music. Fans will be fans, some will be nasty, sarcastic, jovial, positive. If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.

But again, apparently this is released by a majority vote, so this set is being held up by two or more voting members of BRI. So I think we can confidently say this isn't a single member vetoing the set because of the annoying fans at the Smiley Smile message board.

And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

Nobody said 1,000 signatures was enough to move the needle. There are some of us who would like ESQ to shed some light on either the petition or the Feel Flows boxset so actual traction on the petition or general buzz about the set can take place. ESQ is definitely a big name in the fandom, they have some 7,000 followers on Facebook. I completely get why they don't get involved, but it would be nice if they shared the petition or asked some questions about the set.

Quote
I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

These two statements so obviously contradict each other. It doesn't matter how long it takes to make the profit. Fact is it has a good chance of making a profit. Also, these guys are millionaires to a ridiculous extent. I wrote about it many many pages back, but these guys likely don't give a damn about the paltry amount of money they will end up making from this set. Regardless, it is still money that will be added to their bank accounts.

Quote
And for those of you who say “Mike Love’s people will never see my nasty comments anyway”, then I say “they’ll never see your petition either.”

Who has said this? Mike Love has stated in the past that he frequently looks at this board. So no doubt he has read the comments regarding himself.

Quote
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973

The reason why people want this out before December 31, 2020 is because of copyright deadlines. So releasing an archival boxset in 2023 would be completely pointless for the band to do.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 07, 2020, 06:31:24 PM

I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.


Fair point overall, but do keep in mind that most of those costs have probably already occurred, given that the project is complete and ready to go.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 07, 2020, 06:42:55 PM
Quote
Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?
😒


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 07, 2020, 07:15:18 PM
Beach Boy reunion in 2021 is frankly not a prospect that appeals to me, even if it were to happen. The ship has sailed - 2012 was good but we must remember nearly a decade has passed. Mike and Al's  voice hasn't declined too much, but Brian's and Bruce's seem to have worsened quite a bit. These are people nearing 80 years old - and 80 is a very different beast than 70 in terms of physical health and endurance.

If it's down to the hypothetical 60th anniversary tour vs. a full and high fidelity document of one of Carl and Dennis's peaks as songwriters and recording artists, it's the latter all the way for me. It may not be of the greatest appeal to a broad audience, but it's historically and culturally important that it be available for public consumption.

This is *especially* true for Dennis's work in my opinion. There's still a long way to go in reversing his current reputation as the self-destructive wild card who brought Charlie Manson into the fold. Dennis's musical output between 68-72 would speak for itself - if it were all given the proper chance to be heard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 07, 2020, 07:47:42 PM
You make a great point. They've paid for the research/studio time/liner notes part already... so who knows? Maybe there's a desire (by someone?) to take the best items from the Feel Flows set and roll them into a 2021 career-spanning set. That's a just a guess. I sincerely hope not! Like I said, I'll be REALLY disappointed if the complete 5-CD set doesn't come out. I just don't think that the way to help this thing along is via insults toward band members. I like all of the Beach Boys. I don't agree with every decision that each makes... but I like all of them. And for someone who likes all of them, you can't beat the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. I'm not directing that last part at you. That's just a general thought.



I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.


Fair point overall, but do keep in mind that most of those costs have probably already occurred, given that the project is complete and ready to go.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 07, 2020, 08:06:58 PM
Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

Quote
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973

The reason why people want this out before December 31, 2020 is because of copyright deadlines. So releasing an archival boxset in 2023 would be completely pointless for the band to do.
[/quote]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 07, 2020, 08:18:10 PM
I get it. Not your cup of tea. But if they do it, the tour WILL sell out because it will bring people some much-needed joy. I'm confident we'll get that high fidelity document of Carl and Dennis sooner or later, but the only ship that has truly sailed is seeing Carl and Dennis live. The others are still with us and I'll consider it a treat and even an honor to celebrate their music with them yet again regardless of their age.

Beach Boy reunion in 2021 is frankly not a prospect that appeals to me, even if it were to happen. The ship has sailed - 2012 was good but we must remember nearly a decade has passed. Mike and Al's  voice hasn't declined too much, but Brian's and Bruce's seem to have worsened quite a bit. These are people nearing 80 years old - and 80 is a very different beast than 70 in terms of physical health and endurance.

If it's down to the hypothetical 60th anniversary tour vs. a full and high fidelity document of one of Carl and Dennis's peaks as songwriters and recording artists, it's the latter all the way for me. It may not be of the greatest appeal to a broad audience, but it's historically and culturally important that it be available for public consumption.

This is *especially* true for Dennis's work in my opinion. There's still a long way to go in reversing his current reputation as the self-destructive wild card who brought Charlie Manson into the fold. Dennis's musical output between 68-72 would speak for itself - if it were all given the proper chance to be heard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 07, 2020, 09:52:55 PM
I think I may have posted in the beginning of this thread but nothing since. Just a few thoughts and ideas. Any possibility a holdout is related to future 50th releases? Rather than just the 70/71 albums a member is considering the long game?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on September 07, 2020, 10:04:33 PM
Would I go to a 60th anniversary show?   If Brian participates, then probably yes.  But I'm not holding my breath. The various camps always have their issues. And the man himself seemed somewhat frail in his performing-from-home videos a couple months ago. Doubt he's really up to a big tour.  IMO, best case would be not a road trip but rather a few "home games" (e.g., a limited stint in L.A. where it all began).



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 07, 2020, 10:45:54 PM
I really don't care about a 60th anniversary reunion. For starters, I know I would not be able to afford the tickets - to put this in perspective, the most i spent on concert tickets last year was $35 for the Beach Boys. Even the nosebleed seats at a reunion show will top $70. And I'm not convinced the guys can deliver it at this point. Mike does fine with his current band because most of the heavy lifting is done by younger musicians. If I felt the need to sit at the feet of a master, Brian Wilson, and that my life would somehow be enhanced by the experience, I might go for it, but I really don't look him as a wise old yogi that is going to lead me to the light. His music has already done that.
I want the full Feel Flows box - cd's, inserts, the complete experience.
I don't need another career spanning box set. We've already got a couple of those. What would they do different this time that they didn't do before?
Someone earlier said something about Dennis' current reputation as a drug addict who hung out with Manson. Really? That is what people think when they hear the name Dennis Wilson today? I don't think there is any lack of awareness of Dennis as a composer, piano player, as a true artist. The reissue of Pacific Ocean Blue was greeted with unanimous praise, and it is always Dennis' contributions on those late 60s'/early 70's albums I see being singled out for praise. If anyone's contributions might gain a reppraisal from the release of FF, it will be Carl's - as a producer, as a songwriter, as a singer. I hope so anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 07, 2020, 11:45:16 PM
I'm working on an assumption that the track list isn't an issue. It seems clear from the insider knowledge we've been given that this thing got a green light long ago, and to have been 2 years in development with consultation along the way, it would not make any sense that those sorts of issues were the holdup.

What does that leave? An internal squabble - but over what. Historically, liner notes is the best precedent we have, but my reading is that's along the same lines as track listing - it's likely been settled - after all it's clear that some issues have already come up and already been resolved.

The label could be in a standoff with BRI - probably would have to relate to $ split, because "the label wants to release it" - but that doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me

It occurs to me that someone - and I'm not suggesting anyone in particular here - could be trying to link the deal for this release to a deal for some other future release or releases - that could be the hold up.

Is that a possibility?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2020, 02:03:45 AM
Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

It’s not a maybe. It’s the reality of the situation...which is why there are nearly 60 pages of posts in this thread. To make it clearer, here are a couple posts that easily spell out the situation:

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 04:00:41 AM
I know the "situation"... 60 pages of armchair lawyers. Plenty of major artists haven't even bothered so... maybe.
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

And just to be clear, I mean to say *just a few* armchair lawyers, over and over, throughout the 60 pages.


Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

It’s not a maybe. It’s the reality of the situation...which is why there are nearly 60 pages of posts in this thread. To make it clearer, here are a couple posts that easily spell out the situation:

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 08, 2020, 07:07:04 AM
Brian's facebook page shared an article about the 'Sunflower' album about 15-20 minutes ago, so I figured what the hell, and made a comment linking the change.org petition and asking if there was a chance we might get any public acknowledgment about the petition for the previously publicly acknowledged box set, also noting that I had asked the same of ESQ and noted my disappointment at their lack of coverage (also noting that my comment had either been deleted or hidden) so for whatever it's worth we'll see how the BW social media machine reacts.

Also worth noting the jokes about ESQ doing wall-to-wall COVID coverage and whatnot gave me a good laugh, much needed. And rab, you made an excellent articulation on my feelings regarding ESQ dismissing the signature count (saying that they were probably pretty stoked when they hit 1,000 subscribers). I wish I would've been able to word my feelings so eloquently while I was still in exchange with them, when you're building your fan-base/subscribers/followers or whatever, you shouldn't scoff at any number because everyone starts at 0, or at best 1.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 08, 2020, 07:41:28 AM
I think I’ve cracked the code. Some of us have mentioned someone holding out for some future release...Mike wants a 50th box set of SIP coming out in 2043, and that’s the only way he’ll let this go out.  ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2020, 07:42:20 AM
Quote
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

HeyJude answered this question pages back and I even quoted it yesterday in direct response to your exact question. Please read his post(s) carefully.

@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 08, 2020, 07:56:25 AM
ESQ was rude as sh*t to freakysmiley..., ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 08:30:25 AM

And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

The problem isn't specifically ESQ commenting on the lack of efficacy of a petition, but rather the aversion to covering this story/issue AT ALL. As I said before, it's not surprising, it's just unfortunate. ESQ has had some great writers come in to write some great scholarly/research articles. But the magazine as a whole has never and still doesn't live up to the billing as the Beach Boys "Publication of Record." It strays away from any difficult or important issues surrounding the band. No difficult questions are asked.

That ESQ hasn't even appeared to *politely ask* any members about why the box isn't coming out speaks volumes. That ESQ would belittle a petition (however minimally it might actually bring any change) also speaks volumes.

I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

At most, Feel Flows is a legacy release. A money-losing vanity piece that would hopefully remind everybody how truly great the 1970-1971 Beach Boys were. And at the very least, Feel Flows is fancy damage control release for the sole purpose of retaining European copyrights (if that’s even a real thing anymore).

With all due respect, I don't think you need to new-member-splain to a 15-year-old Beach Boys message board the popularity and selling power of 1970s Beach Boys material. Many of the folks in this thread have been fans for decades and decades and have been online since the 90s. We're well aware what the big sellers are.

That being said, your characterization of the situation is inaccurate and incomplete. "Feel Flows", like "Sunshine Tomorrow" and other similar sets, would never burn up the sales charts. EVERYBODY knows that.

But BRI owns the materials, a box set would be sold at a premium, and overhead costs are not excessive on such sets.

Knowing the sales potential, BRI greenlit this set, as they have done many others in the past.

Also, as others have already pointed out, all those overheard costs have *already* been paid out. All that's left to do is bring money in.


I have no idea what any of the individual Beach Boys are thinking, but if I were to make a guess, I would GUESS that Mike is thinking solely in reunion terms, which is to say, people will be starving for uncomplicated fun in 2021… maybe a 60-date 60th anniversary summer/fall tour with guest stars galore… a cheesy new Beach Boys “Duets” CDs on the endcap of every Target and Walmart, plus a MIC-style career-spanning box in late 2021.

Wrong. None of that has anything to do with the delays. Further, Mike has already re-booked his own 2020 shows for 2021. There's an open question about how much *anybody* will be touring next year, but if tours ramp back up, it'll be Mike's band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 08:36:31 AM
You make a great point. They've paid for the research/studio time/liner notes part already... so who knows? Maybe there's a desire (by someone?) to take the best items from the Feel Flows set and roll them into a 2021 career-spanning set. That's a just a guess. I sincerely hope not!


Your guess is wrong. It has been explained numerous times that the delays have nothing to do with the content of the set. While I suppose that didn't specifically spell out precluding this scenario ("saving" the material for some other career-spanning set), I will specifically say that that is *not* the plan, and the delays on "Feel Flows" have nothing to do with wanting the material for some *other* release down the road.

I've also already mentioned in past posts that marketability/fear of low sales, etc. have *nothing* to do with the delays.

BRI did not greenlight and pay for the set to be 100% completed and then realize "oh s**t, a 1970/71 boxed set won't outsell hits compilations!" They've released a slew of both physical and digital archival releases, and everybody on all sides (the band members, shareholders, the label, the people working on the sets) are *very well aware* of the potential sales for such releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 08:43:48 AM

And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?


This question/issue has been answered about a thousand times already in this thread.

If you don't understand the machinations involved in these releases, that they are justified/kickstarted by the "copyright extension" need, but then expanded far beyond that scope, if you don't understand why that is a delicate dance to make happen/get approved, on top of the already-difficult process involved with *anything* to do with this band, then it's not much worth discussing.

What will potentially/likely happen if the full physical boxed set isn't released this year has been explained many times already. A digital dump will likely be needed. But it'll deflate (both symbolically and literally) the larger, full set. For painfully obvious reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


Quote
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

HeyJude answered this question pages back and I even quoted it yesterday in direct response to your exact question. Please read his post(s) carefully.

@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
New-member-splaining? It’s been 8 years since my last post but heck time flies and I haven’t felt the need. Sorry.

Consider it decades-of-experience-splaining. The overhead costs are extremely high and your comments show me you’ve had no experience in this. You’re just talking.

If lavish Beach Boys box sets made money, they’d make one every year. Even those McCartney sets (which I love BTW) are break-even at best. They’re just legacy-establishing pieces. Grab ‘em while you can folks.



And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

The problem isn't specifically ESQ commenting on the lack of efficacy of a petition, but rather the aversion to covering this story/issue AT ALL. As I said before, it's not surprising, it's just unfortunate. ESQ has had some great writers come in to write some great scholarly/research articles. But the magazine as a whole has never and still doesn't live up to the billing as the Beach Boys "Publication of Record." It strays away from any difficult or important issues surrounding the band. No difficult questions are asked.

That ESQ hasn't even appeared to *politely ask* any members about why the box isn't coming out speaks volumes. That ESQ would belittle a petition (however minimally it might actually bring any change) also speaks volumes.

I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

At most, Feel Flows is a legacy release. A money-losing vanity piece that would hopefully remind everybody how truly great the 1970-1971 Beach Boys were. And at the very least, Feel Flows is fancy damage control release for the sole purpose of retaining European copyrights (if that’s even a real thing anymore).

With all due respect, I don't think you need to new-member-splain to a 15-year-old Beach Boys message board the popularity and selling power of 1970s Beach Boys material. Many of the folks in this thread have been fans for decades and decades and have been online since the 90s. We're well aware what the big sellers are.

That being said, your characterization of the situation is inaccurate and incomplete. "Feel Flows", like "Sunshine Tomorrow" and other similar sets, would never burn up the sales charts. EVERYBODY knows that.

But BRI owns the materials, a box set would be sold at a premium, and overhead costs are not excessive on such sets.

Knowing the sales potential, BRI greenlit this set, as they have done many others in the past.

Also, as others have already pointed out, all those overheard costs have *already* been paid out. All that's left to do is bring money in.


I have no idea what any of the individual Beach Boys are thinking, but if I were to make a guess, I would GUESS that Mike is thinking solely in reunion terms, which is to say, people will be starving for uncomplicated fun in 2021… maybe a 60-date 60th anniversary summer/fall tour with guest stars galore… a cheesy new Beach Boys “Duets” CDs on the endcap of every Target and Walmart, plus a MIC-style career-spanning box in late 2021.

Wrong. None of that has anything to do with the delays. Further, Mike has already re-booked his own 2020 shows for 2021. There's an open question about how much *anybody* will be touring next year, but if tours ramp back up, it'll be Mike's band.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 08, 2020, 11:00:11 AM
Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


Quote
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

HeyJude answered this question pages back and I even quoted it yesterday in direct response to your exact question. Please read his post(s) carefully.

@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?

The copyright situation is fairly easy to understand, at least in terms of practical considerations and recordings that need to be released. What are you confused about?

1- Compositions and sound recordings are separate copyrights.
2- Any compositions that have not been published need to be released by 12/31 in some form, to be protected. [EDIT: *Might be wrong on this point, however it's moot because any relevant previously unreleased composition would be associated with an unreleased sound recording, so see point 3]
3- Any unique sound recordings that have not been published need to be released by 12/31. My understanding is an alternate version/mix from the same recording session would be considered covered if released (i.e., a vocals only mix, take 1 vs. take 17, etc.).


What they clearly did on the 1969 set was to quietly release a sort of "alternate" take of "I'm Going Your Way" to fulfill the copyright, while presumably the more final version would be on Feel Flows. They did not need to release any of the other 1969 totally unreleased tracks (aside from "Carnival"), as these have all been released in some form or another.

Looking at Feel Flows, it is clear that a copyright dump is not the same thing as an archive project at this point. With every release, the compilers/producers have included tons of material they don't have to include. Presumably they have also left out material that is deemed never to be released at all, and has not been booted. The main point here is that if there is any possibility that they may want to release it, and/or it has been circulated in some form - it needs to be included.

This includes live recordings. For instance, if there is a recording of Brian performing at the Whisky in 1970 - it seems any surviving sound recordings may become public domain in the UK on 1/1.

There are a myriad of factors beyond the surface here. IMO "Seasons in the Sun" and "Big Sur" would be key tracks to lead the set as "singles" or promos for marketing purposes. "Seasons in the Sun" sounds like a lost BB hit, and it's appealing that the group recorded it prior to the Terry Jacks version. If you guys think we're getting the full copyright dump of "Seasons in the Sun" in good quality - how would you feel if it's in the form of  a 30-second  "Take 4, alternate mix" which features Carl's scratch vocal, and talking and laughing? How would you feel if there's a soundboard recording of Brian at the Whisky, but we get the bootlegged audience recording for the dump?

How would you feel if those kinds of tracks are all we ever get, because the potential lack of releasing Feel Flows by the end of 2020 negates the need for any kind of lavish, comprehensive set? What if the same thing happens in 2021?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 11:04:32 AM
I may be "wrong". I guess time will tell. You seem quite authoritative though. Sounds like I have so much to learn from you.


You make a great point. They've paid for the research/studio time/liner notes part already... so who knows? Maybe there's a desire (by someone?) to take the best items from the Feel Flows set and roll them into a 2021 career-spanning set. That's a just a guess. I sincerely hope not!


Your guess is wrong. It has been explained numerous times that the delays have nothing to do with the content of the set. While I suppose that didn't specifically spell out precluding this scenario ("saving" the material for some other career-spanning set), I will specifically say that that is *not* the plan, and the delays on "Feel Flows" have nothing to do with wanting the material for some *other* release down the road.

I've also already mentioned in past posts that marketability/fear of low sales, etc. have *nothing* to do with the delays.

BRI did not greenlight and pay for the set to be 100% completed and then realize "oh s**t, a 1970/71 boxed set won't outsell hits compilations!" They've released a slew of both physical and digital archival releases, and everybody on all sides (the band members, shareholders, the label, the people working on the sets) are *very well aware* of the potential sales for such releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
spring baby,

Are you this “persuasive” in your everyday life? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 08, 2020, 11:08:29 AM
Also, though I signed it on the first day, I don't really think the petition will have much effect on anything here. IMO it seems like a way for us fans to feel like we're "doing something" or taking some kind of action to change things, when we may not be able to. I'm also thinking that the relatively low number of signatures on it might actually hurt more than it helps. Better ways to influence change might be to be individually creative and figure out our own ways to influence the proceedings, if that's even possible. One man's opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2020, 11:23:45 AM
Also, though I signed it on the first day, I don't really think the petition will have much effect on anything here. IMO it seems like a way for us fans to feel like we're "doing something" or taking some kind of action to change things, when we may not be able to. I'm also thinking that the relatively low number of signatures on it might actually hurt more than it helps. Better ways to influence change might be to be individually creative and figure out our own ways to influence the proceedings, if that's even possible. One man's opinion.

The way I see it, and I’ve said it many many times: given that the petition has spread by word-of-mouth (basically) I am shocked the number is as high as it is now. The trophy hunting petition only started gaining major traction after the media/BW picked up on the story. This petition hasn’t had any boost from anyone in any higher standing of the band or media. Which is why people like me would love for ESQ to post about it.

In my mind, this petition was more about raising awareness of the issue to band members, camp members, media, etc who could possibly nudge whoever is blocking this set into greenlighting it - is this completely unrealistic? Probably, but it’s all we have left at this point.

The low number of the petition shouldn’t hurt anything. The label wants to release this thing, likely because they have actual sales projections. A small petition circulating on one Beach boys forum and some Beach boys related Facebook posts wouldn’t have any negative impact.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
You're just regurgitating the same stuff we've been reading on message boards for 7 years. Does anyone stop to consider whether these copyright "facts" are even accurate? The only thing I'm confused about is why some fans are posing as copyright experts.



Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


Quote
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

HeyJude answered this question pages back and I even quoted it yesterday in direct response to your exact question. Please read his post(s) carefully.

@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?

The copyright situation is fairly easy to understand, at least in terms of practical considerations and recordings that need to be released. What are you confused about?

1- Compositions and sound recordings are separate copyrights.
2- Any compositions that have not been published need to be released by 12/31 in some form, to be protected.
3- Any unique sound recordings that have not been published need to be released by 12/31. My understanding is an alternate version/mix from the same recording session would be considered covered if released (i.e., a vocals only mix, take 1 vs. take 17, etc.).


What they clearly did on the 1969 set was to quietly release a sort of "alternate" take of "I'm Going Your Way" to fulfill the copyright, while presumably the more final version would be on Feel Flows. They did not need to release any of the other 1969 totally unreleased tracks (aside from "Carnival"), as these have all been released in some form or another.

Looking at Feel Flows, it is clear that a copyright dump is not the same thing as an archive project at this point. With every release, the compilers/producers have included tons of material they don't have to include. Presumably they have also left out material that is deemed never to be released at all, and has not been booted. The main point here is that if there is any possibility that they may want to release it, and/or it has been circulated in some form - it needs to be included.

This includes live recordings. For instance, if there is a recording of Brian performing at the Whisky in 1970 - it seems any surviving sound recordings may become public domain in the UK on 1/1.

There are a myriad of factors beyond the surface here. IMO "Seasons in the Sun" and "Big Sur" would be key tracks to lead the set as "singles" or promos for marketing purposes. "Seasons in the Sun" sounds like a lost BB hit, and it's appealing that the group recorded it prior to the Terry Jacks version. If you guys think we're getting the full copyright dump of "Seasons in the Sun" in good quality - how would you feel if it's in the form of  a 30-second  "Take 4, alternate mix" which features Carl's scratch vocal, and talking and laughing? How would you feel if there's a soundboard recording of Brian at the Whisky, but we get the bootlegged audience recording for the dump?

How would you feel if those kinds of tracks are all we ever get, because the potential lack of releasing Feel Flows by the end of 2020 negates the need for any kind of lavish, comprehensive set? What if the same thing happens in 2021?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: spring-baby on September 08, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
Good point. I'll own that! I'm being too snarky.

spring baby,

Are you this “persuasive” in your everyday life? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on September 08, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
You're just regurgitating the same stuff we've been reading on message boards for 7 years. Does anyone stop to consider whether these copyright "facts" are even accurate? The only thing I'm confused about is why some fans are posing as copyright experts.

Feel free to research it yourself. It might clear up some confusion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 08, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
You're just regurgitating the same stuff we've been reading on message boards for 7 years. Does anyone stop to consider whether these copyright "facts" are even accurate? The only thing I'm confused about is why some fans are posing as copyright experts.

These members you call "fans posing as copyright experts" are either musicians who have been involved with both labels and their own releases (and have worked with legacy artists personally), or have been in and around the Beach Boys circles of information for several decades who have interacted with key players on several fronts. That can be vouched for but it shouldn't need to be. I'd listen to what they're saying before trying to write them off as "fans" who don't know. And as was illustrated above, the whole process isn't a one-size-fits-all scenario in how the different bands and labels (and publishers) are handling these new rules.

If that's not enough info, as someone already suggested, consider getting in touch with a copyright lawyer and ask more specific questions to get those specific answers. Otherwise, I'd reconsider writing off people posting here as fans pretending to be lawyers, because that's just not fair and it's throwing shade on people who are directly answering your questions from places of experience.

Just consider beyond this, the question *why* are fan efforts to do something or anything to help get the word to the right people being dismissed, mocked, and outright denigrated by certain individuals and circles?

Calling fans talking about this set entitled and spoiled...hmmm, I also remember several years ago a Brian Wilson tour of the UK was postponed and some of the same loud voices blasting fans supporting this set were acting as if a criminal offense had been committed and spinning several false reasons why the concerts were not held. Entitlement, et tu? Funny how things turn like that.

My own opinions are that there has been a weird dynamic where certain outlets and voices act as if their word is law, and fans get lectures and finger-wagging whenever some opinions start getting heard that go against the preferred narrative. Getting lectured and being told fans should apologize to the band members for voicing opinions, really? If fans want lectures and finger-wagging when their opinions need to be set straight by those circles, you know where to find them. And it's been on full display with this box set. Fans are basically being told to shut up, yet again, and their efforts don't matter because there are more important things to be concerned with. The petition doesn't matter, it's a waste of time, the numbers are a joke. Is that what fans want? Being told what to think, what to be happy about buying, to not rock the boat, here's what's coming out and be happy it's being offered, don't be so entitled and whiny, etc. Again, you know now where to find it. Some of us know where and how to avoid it just the same.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 08, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?

Honestly I'm not exactly holding my breath in anticipation of a response either, but I figure it will be both LESS likely to be deleted/hidden by BW's social media moderators and MORE likely to be seen by his SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS/FOLLOWERS.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 08, 2020, 01:13:39 PM
Also, though I signed it on the first day, I don't really think the petition will have much effect on anything here. IMO it seems like a way for us fans to feel like we're "doing something" or taking some kind of action to change things, when we may not be able to. I'm also thinking that the relatively low number of signatures on it might actually hurt more than it helps. Better ways to influence change might be to be individually creative and figure out our own ways to influence the proceedings, if that's even possible. One man's opinion.

The way I see it, and I’ve said it many many times: given that the petition has spread by word-of-mouth (basically) I am shocked the number is as high as it is now. The trophy hunting petition only started gaining major traction after the media/BW picked up on the story. This petition hasn’t had any boost from anyone in any higher standing of the band or media. Which is why people like me would love for ESQ to post about it.

In my mind, this petition was more about raising awareness of the issue to band members, camp members, media, etc who could possibly nudge whoever is blocking this set into greenlighting it - is this completely unrealistic? Probably, but it’s all we have left at this point.

The low number of the petition shouldn’t hurt anything. The label wants to release this thing, likely because they have actual sales projections. A small petition circulating on one Beach boys forum and some Beach boys related Facebook posts wouldn’t have any negative impact.

That's a fair opinion, though I do disagree personally. Also the trophy hunting thing is a good example - you're correct that it raised awareness, but ultimately it did not stop the gig and potentially caused further rifts (no idea if it did or not).

*I'm not against the petition, for the record - it's fine/whatever. I just don't believe it will be effective.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 08, 2020, 01:14:35 PM
You're just regurgitating the same stuff we've been reading on message boards for 7 years. Does anyone stop to consider whether these copyright "facts" are even accurate? The only thing I'm confused about is why some fans are posing as copyright experts.



Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


Quote
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

HeyJude answered this question pages back and I even quoted it yesterday in direct response to your exact question. Please read his post(s) carefully.

@freakysmiley, thanks for commenting there! I would be surprised if they answered you, but it was definitely worth a shot.

It is promising that they shared an article about ‘Sunflower’ - surely this must mean something?

The copyright situation is fairly easy to understand, at least in terms of practical considerations and recordings that need to be released. What are you confused about?

1- Compositions and sound recordings are separate copyrights.
2- Any compositions that have not been published need to be released by 12/31 in some form, to be protected.
3- Any unique sound recordings that have not been published need to be released by 12/31. My understanding is an alternate version/mix from the same recording session would be considered covered if released (i.e., a vocals only mix, take 1 vs. take 17, etc.).


What they clearly did on the 1969 set was to quietly release a sort of "alternate" take of "I'm Going Your Way" to fulfill the copyright, while presumably the more final version would be on Feel Flows. They did not need to release any of the other 1969 totally unreleased tracks (aside from "Carnival"), as these have all been released in some form or another.

Looking at Feel Flows, it is clear that a copyright dump is not the same thing as an archive project at this point. With every release, the compilers/producers have included tons of material they don't have to include. Presumably they have also left out material that is deemed never to be released at all, and has not been booted. The main point here is that if there is any possibility that they may want to release it, and/or it has been circulated in some form - it needs to be included.

This includes live recordings. For instance, if there is a recording of Brian performing at the Whisky in 1970 - it seems any surviving sound recordings may become public domain in the UK on 1/1.

There are a myriad of factors beyond the surface here. IMO "Seasons in the Sun" and "Big Sur" would be key tracks to lead the set as "singles" or promos for marketing purposes. "Seasons in the Sun" sounds like a lost BB hit, and it's appealing that the group recorded it prior to the Terry Jacks version. If you guys think we're getting the full copyright dump of "Seasons in the Sun" in good quality - how would you feel if it's in the form of  a 30-second  "Take 4, alternate mix" which features Carl's scratch vocal, and talking and laughing? How would you feel if there's a soundboard recording of Brian at the Whisky, but we get the bootlegged audience recording for the dump?

How would you feel if those kinds of tracks are all we ever get, because the potential lack of releasing Feel Flows by the end of 2020 negates the need for any kind of lavish, comprehensive set? What if the same thing happens in 2021?

I haven't "regurgitated" anything dude - I'm familiar w/ (US) copyright law and I've researched this. You seem to be confused about how it works, so I'll ask again - in what areas are you confused? I can probably clear that up, as I am not confused about how it works. I do not consider myself an expert, but the meat and potatoes of it (and the practical implications) are not difficult to understand.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
Calling fans talking about this set entitled and spoiled...hmmm, I also remember several years ago a Brian Wilson tour of the UK was postponed and some of the same loud voices blasting fans supporting this set were acting as if a criminal offense had been committed and spinning several false reasons why the concerts were not held. Entitlement, et tu? Funny how things turn like that.

:lol even more funny considering how much obnoxious whining that group did regarding Brian playing more "final" Pet Sounds shows...Did they want Brian Wilson to play the UK or didn't they?

Just consider beyond this, the question *why* are fan efforts to do something or anything to help get the word to the right people being dismissed, mocked, and outright denigrated by certain individuals and circles?

And consider who those circles/individuals frequently defend (or more telling, which camp they chastise often)...

Honestly I'm not exactly holding my breath in anticipation of a response either, but I figure it will be both LESS likely to be deleted/hidden by BW's social media moderators and MORE likely to be seen by his SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS/FOLLOWERS.

Good point.

1,329 have signed, next goalpost is at 1,500. Hopefully it keeps getting signatures.

That's a fair opinion, though I do disagree personally. Also the trophy hunting thing is a good example - you're correct that it raised awareness, but ultimately it did not stop the gig and potentially caused further rifts (no idea if it did or not).

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from too. Time will tell I suppose.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 01:19:49 PM
Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


I think the continual disconnect with a few people who seem to be determined to burst into the room and tell everyone "nobody knows anything, so what's the point?" is that some people DO know something. Some people know enough about what's going on that they know better than to make a list of 50 "possible" outcomes in all of this, and then sit back and fold their arms and say "any of this could happen, none of us know, so what's the big deal?"

In terms of discussing the "Feel Flows" set, if you're focusing on the "legal" aspect of copyright extension, then you're missing the entire point. As others have said, the "Copyright Extension" sets are pretty clear in their prompts. They cover small hand fulls of tracks that *probably* need protection, and then they use the opportunity to then also EXPAND the sets to include a lot of stuff they *don't* have to.

The only reason any of that is even germane to "Feel Flows" is that there is a *wide* gap between what probably *needs* to be released before the end of the year, and what is actually on the set. The decision to release the actual prepared boxed set before the end of the year could be the difference between a multi-disc boxed set and that 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" EP.

But again, delving into who is an "expert" in copyright extension is entirely missing the point. The box was already authorized to prepare and is ready to go. The machinations going on right now have nothing to do with the legalities of copyright extension. As stated above, the only area where that comes into play is in a scenario where the set *doesn't* come out soon enough, or at all. That then sets in motion several possible outcomes, none of which are preferable to just releasing the full set, and most of which are quite worse.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 08, 2020, 01:27:53 PM
Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


I think the continual disconnect with a few people who seem to be determined to burst into the room and tell everyone "nobody knows anything, so what's the point?" is that some people DO know something. Some people know enough about what's going on that they know better than to make a list of 50 "possible" outcomes in all of this, and then sit back and fold their arms and say "any of this could happen, none of us know, so what's the big deal?"

In terms of discussing the "Feel Flows" set, if you're focusing on the "legal" aspect of copyright extension, then you're missing the entire point. As others have said, the "Copyright Extension" sets are pretty clear in their prompts. They cover small hand fulls of tracks that *probably* need protection, and then they use the opportunity to then also EXPAND the sets to include a lot of stuff they *don't* have to.

The only reason any of that is even germane to "Feel Flows" is that there is a *wide* gap between what probably *needs* to be released before the end of the year, and what is actually on the set. The decision to release the actual prepared boxed set before the end of the year could be the difference between a multi-disc boxed set and that 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" EP.

But again, delving into who is an "expert" in copyright extension is entirely missing the point. The box was already authorized to prepare and is ready to go. The machinations going on right now have nothing to do with the legalities of copyright extension. As stated above, the only area where that comes into play is in a scenario where the set *doesn't* come out soon enough, or at all. That then sets in motion several possible outcomes, none of which are preferable to just releasing the full set, and most of which are quite worse.


What else do you think could be done by fans to further the release of this set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 01:29:21 PM
New-member-splaining? It’s been 8 years since my last post but heck time flies and I haven’t felt the need. Sorry.

Consider it decades-of-experience-splaining. The overhead costs are extremely high and your comments show me you’ve had no experience in this. You’re just talking.

If lavish Beach Boys box sets made money, they’d make one every year. Even those McCartney sets (which I love BTW) are break-even at best. They’re just legacy-establishing pieces. Grab ‘em while you can folks.


My apologies. I should have said "Never-contributes-to-discussions-splaining".

What we do know is that BRI paid for it. What we do all know is that, whatever those costs, *nearly all of them have already been spent*.

You're not the first person to try to burst into the conversation (seemingly without having read the entire thread, or not retaining the information in any event), claim some nebulous amount of experience/knowledge, and then go on to offer a bunch of general observations, without having any inside information about what's going on with this set, and that ignore the 60 years of weird Beach Boys politics.

NOBODY claims these sets make a ton of money. If you knew enough about the industry, and more specifically about the history of the band vis-a-vis archival releases and also vis-a-vis their attitude over the years regarding post-60s material, you'd know very well how precarious a set like "Feel Flows" could be as it attempts to be undertaken. Read Howie's posts. This thing almost died several times before it even happened.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2020, 01:34:27 PM
Mine was rhetorical question. If I were looking for serious answers re: copyright extension I’d consult a music lawyer (and even they don’t seem to agree on the European copyright thing). Some musicians including The Beach Boys have just been playing it safe – that’s all.

I just think it’s funny that the very same posters who used to carefully explain in legal terms why The Beach Boys were releasing piles of session outtakes and concerts are the same people who are now explaining how only unreleased songs are in copyright peril. It’s almost as if nobody knows anything. Including me.

I think it’s possible we get a 5CD boxset.
I think it’s possible we get a large digital dump at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get a bare bones handful of 1970 songs at the end of the year.
I think it’s possible we get nothing.


I think the continual disconnect with a few people who seem to be determined to burst into the room and tell everyone "nobody knows anything, so what's the point?" is that some people DO know something. Some people know enough about what's going on that they know better than to make a list of 50 "possible" outcomes in all of this, and then sit back and fold their arms and say "any of this could happen, none of us know, so what's the big deal?"

In terms of discussing the "Feel Flows" set, if you're focusing on the "legal" aspect of copyright extension, then you're missing the entire point. As others have said, the "Copyright Extension" sets are pretty clear in their prompts. They cover small hand fulls of tracks that *probably* need protection, and then they use the opportunity to then also EXPAND the sets to include a lot of stuff they *don't* have to.

The only reason any of that is even germane to "Feel Flows" is that there is a *wide* gap between what probably *needs* to be released before the end of the year, and what is actually on the set. The decision to release the actual prepared boxed set before the end of the year could be the difference between a multi-disc boxed set and that 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" EP.

But again, delving into who is an "expert" in copyright extension is entirely missing the point. The box was already authorized to prepare and is ready to go. The machinations going on right now have nothing to do with the legalities of copyright extension. As stated above, the only area where that comes into play is in a scenario where the set *doesn't* come out soon enough, or at all. That then sets in motion several possible outcomes, none of which are preferable to just releasing the full set, and most of which are quite worse.


What else do you think could be done by fans to further the release of this set?

All I can say is keep talking about it, letting everyone know the set EXISTS, and continue to let everyone know the fans want it, and that it's good for the band too.

I can't say how much a petition will impact things versus anything else.

I think a main point is that the *existence* of robust conversation about the set, across this board and social media, and petitions, is the most important aspect.

That's why venues like ESQ ignoring all of this is so disappointing. Who does it hurt to just say "hey, I'm hearing this amazing set was prepared and ready to go, so hey Beach Boys, please release this set!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 08, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Based on that "87 reasons" comment a few pages back I'm gonna have to assume that the box set has 87 previously unreleased tracks, otherwise it's a reference to Kokomo (released in '87). A third possibility is that this all stems from a dispute about $87 someone lent to someone else decades ago (possibly to rent an instrument), and was never repaid!

How am I doing, HeyJude?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 08, 2020, 03:01:20 PM
Quote
These members you call "fans posing as copyright experts" are either musicians who have been involved with both labels and their own releases (and have worked with legacy artists personally), or have been in and around the Beach Boys circles of information for several decades who have interacted with key players on several fronts.

Or in some cases, both.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 08, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
Based on that "87 reasons" comment a few pages back I'm gonna have to assume that the box set has 87 previously unreleased tracks, otherwise it's a reference to Kokomo (released in '87). A third possibility is that this all stems from a dispute about $87 someone lent to someone else decades ago (possibly to rent an instrument), and was never repaid!

How am I doing, HeyJude?

Snarky comebacks tend to read better when the years they reference are actually accurate.

You should've done a Wipeout reference for '87.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 08, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
The iChing (Sponsored by the Ancient Wisdom division of Apple) tells me differently. Mike’s holding up the boxed set because he’s pissed the Pickle Brothers material didn’t get reissued


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 08, 2020, 04:20:57 PM
Calling fans talking about this set entitled and spoiled...hmmm, I also remember several years ago a Brian Wilson tour of the UK was postponed and some of the same loud voices blasting fans supporting this set were acting as if a criminal offense had been committed and spinning several false reasons why the concerts were not held. Entitlement, et tu? Funny how things turn like that.

:lol even more funny considering how much obnoxious whining that group did regarding Brian playing more "final" Pet Sounds shows...Did they want Brian Wilson to play the UK or didn't they?

Just consider beyond this, the question *why* are fan efforts to do something or anything to help get the word to the right people being dismissed, mocked, and outright denigrated by certain individuals and circles?

And consider who those circles/individuals frequently defend (or more telling, which camp they chastise often)...


Great point(s). I guess it's not entitlement to either want or expect Brian to tour and play a setlist that those fans wanted rather than what was being offered. But notable that it's some of the same voices now claiming fans are acting with a sense of entitlement surrounding this box set. What's the term for that...starts with an "h" I believe...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 08, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
Calling fans talking about this set entitled and spoiled...hmmm, I also remember several years ago a Brian Wilson tour of the UK was postponed and some of the same loud voices blasting fans supporting this set were acting as if a criminal offense had been committed and spinning several false reasons why the concerts were not held. Entitlement, et tu? Funny how things turn like that.

:lol even more funny considering how much obnoxious whining that group did regarding Brian playing more "final" Pet Sounds shows...Did they want Brian Wilson to play the UK or didn't they?

Just consider beyond this, the question *why* are fan efforts to do something or anything to help get the word to the right people being dismissed, mocked, and outright denigrated by certain individuals and circles?

And consider who those circles/individuals frequently defend (or more telling, which camp they chastise often)...


Great point(s). I guess it's not entitlement to either want or expect Brian to tour and play a setlist that those fans wanted rather than what was being offered. But notable that it's some of the same voices now claiming fans are acting with a sense of entitlement surrounding this box set. What's the term for that...starts with an "h" I believe...

Whoa...slow down....you’re making sense and that concept is lost in some quarters. We may need to bring out the reading blocks and Mr. Socko and break it down slowly.

hyp·o·crite
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
 
noun
a person who indulges in hypocrisy.
"the story tells of respectable Ben who turns out to be a cheat and a hypocrite"

Or better yet  “Him say thing about bad man and do same thing him do. I’m telling mum!”



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 09, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Based on that "87 reasons" comment a few pages back I'm gonna have to assume that the box set has 87 previously unreleased tracks, otherwise it's a reference to Kokomo (released in '87). A third possibility is that this all stems from a dispute about $87 someone lent to someone else decades ago (possibly to rent an instrument), and was never repaid!

How am I doing, HeyJude?

Snarky comebacks tend to read better when the years they reference are actually accurate.

You should've done a Wipeout reference for '87.

Okay, right you are. Not the era of the band I've got the most interest in.

But to be clear, not really intending to be "Snarky". It's more just an expression of my frustration with the pettiness of things that go on in this band. Although I referenced HeyJude, it was merely because he made the 87 reasons post - not because I've got anything against him or what he posts.

I guess I just don't feel that anything we do here will make any difference. It's frustrating not knowing why it is that this dysfunction continues after all these years.

BTW if ML happens to read this there's the title for the 2021 reunion "After All These Years" - has the advantage that it references the 1989 reunion - the first great Beach Boys reunion of the modern era.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 09, 2020, 03:23:43 PM
I guess I just don't feel that anything we do here will make any difference. It's frustrating not knowing why it is that this dysfunction continues after all these years.

I'd like to think of the butterfly effect in this case. Yes, 1,300 people signing a petition isn't earth shattering by any means, but that is 1,300 individual people who are publicly supporting the people in background who are possibly still trying to make this set happen. There are 1,455 posts in this thread alone, having 120,000+ views. Some of those views are from Howie himself, makes me wonder if Mike, Al, Bruce, Brian, Melinda, etc are some of those views too.

Our discussions, petitions, "entitled" behavior could very well give some of these people the extra push of motivation needed to get done what needs to get done. Given what Howie has told us, it sounds like whatever is going on isn't fun for him. Now imagine if there were ZERO posts about this set. Imagine if there was no enthusiasm, no support from fans. I'm not sure if there is currently any effort to get this set released, but if there is (back to the butterfly effect) perhaps just one of the posts here could be enough to keep the momentum going for a possible turnaround for this set.

Maybe we don't have any impact. But I'd rather do something rather than nothing just in case there is even a small chance that our discussions actually do have an impact on the release of this set.
_______________

Perhaps if ESQ posted about the set then even more enthusiasm could be created from the fanbase. There are other big names that don't seem to be giving this set any support, and I wish they would. It appears as if these players in the game are entrenched politically in their respective camps and it's utterly ridiculous. What happened to that slogan that was thrown around all the time by ESQ on this forum:

"It's all about the music!"

But yet right now when the music is on the chopping block there is no talk of the music. Just pure silence - actually, its worse than silence: deleting a post and denigrating a grassroots petition privately. Does that sound like a love of the music to anyone else?

Let this sink in: a creator of the last major boxset release that this band will ever have posted publicly that this boxset is currently shelved. And the biggest fanzine associated with this band has NOTHING to ask/say about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 09, 2020, 04:48:50 PM
Although I post here under a pseudonym I was one of the first to sign the petition.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 09, 2020, 05:04:53 PM
Although I post here under a pseudonym I was one of the first to sign the petition.

You've also been a regular part of the discussion in most of this thread, which helps too. I hope what I wrote above didn't inadvertently imply that you yourself weren't doing anything to help this set get released. If so, I didn't mean to imply that at all. I, too, feel discouraged about the way things are going, and at times I have my doubts that anything we're doing will help at all. But I am grateful for all the discussion that has continued to take place here for the last couple months. And thank you for signing the petition.

And a huge thanks to whoever made the petition in the first place! The wording, the artwork for the petition page - it's all top notch.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 09, 2020, 05:56:11 PM
Although I post here under a pseudonym I was one of the first to sign the petition.

You've also been a regular part of the discussion in most of this thread, which helps too. I hope what I wrote above didn't inadvertently imply that you yourself weren't doing anything to help this set get released. If so, I didn't mean to imply that at all. I, too, feel discouraged about the way things are going, and at times I have my doubts that anything we're doing will help at all. But I am grateful for all the discussion that has continued to take place here for the last couple months. And thank you for signing the petition.

And a huge thanks to whoever made the petition in the first place! The wording, the artwork for the petition page - it's all top notch.

I think the petition is well-worded, and does its best to get people wanting to sign. And I know with this band there's always an element of toeing the line. But in my humble opinion, I'm of the mind that the petition should go further, to mention that most of the members of the band with active social media accounts CONTINUE as of September 2020 to post about material from this set, CONTINUE to mention the anniversaries of the albums in question, which can only be taken as a hint  to fans of their side in this situation... while another member of this band conspicuously has been completely quiet about the set and conspicuously ignores the anniversary of the albums, and to let fans draw their own conclusions.

Something like "We don't know what this means exactly, but it would seem that there is a behind the scenes impasse happening; this set, highlighting a particularly fruitful period of music for his late brothers, may be shelved against Brian Wilson's wishes". Will this do any good? I dunno. But I think it'd get more people to want to sign it. This very thought might piss some people off, as it should.

I think fans will possibly be more incentivized to sign and share, and may get more fired up if they think there's some sort of injustice happening against the wishes of the last surviving Wilson brother in particular, and the legacies of his late brothers are seemingly being f*cked with and diminished.

There cannot be a legit, understandable reason why that can be explained away as being "okay, no problem, nothing to see here."  This is not just a vague injustice for music fans that this music would not come out in and of itself, but in my view it would be very much highlighted that it seems by most logical evidence that a non-release of this box would go contrary to Brian Wilson and Al Jardine's wishes, who in late 2020 (during a time period when the petition is active and repeatedly shared on their pages, so they know it exists) have social media accounts that continue to actively promote and remind fans of the band's music from this time period. Brian and Al are not doing that by accident. They're telling fans "we like this material too, and we'd really like to talk about details, but we can't at this time, but here's a bone we can throw you that hints very strongly at our thoughts on the matter"

I'd love if Brian and Al would outright state their side in this clearly, but if negotiations are happening, that is the only logical reason why they'd keep quiet and try to not stir the pot. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to surmise that band members who continually post about anniversaries of specific albums would not be the cause of a non-release of material from said albums.

Maybe there's a better, slightly more diplomatic, and less long-winded way to word things that I stated above. Mike doesn't need to be directly accused of anything, except conspicuously ignoring those album anniversaries, which is a piece of factual information. But I stand by my feelings in a general sense that incorporating just a bit of this general idea would help the petition gain more traction. Plus it might make a publication want to write about it. Most fans (casual or more than casual but less than superfans) aren't gonna do the research to know what seems to be going on here.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 09, 2020, 06:15:09 PM
If the petition slows down at 1500 or 1350 or whatever, at least those fans spoke up and let the band members know that there is a demand and that they would buy this set. That's not a bad thing, in fact for over 1,000 fans to say they will spend at least 100 bucks on a Beach Boys box set with no coverage in the music press so far, during a pandemic when money is tight all over, through a true grassroots effort and petition...I'd say that's pretty damn good. Cheers to all who have been signing it and talking it up.

I know I've said it before, but it's come to a point where if there are people within this fan community, and people who may place themselves *above* the regular fans, who see fit to mock or dismiss or even denigrate this petition and those signing it...what else can you say to them except screw you.

I think the examples of the BW shows and setlists above pretty much called out the hypocrisy of those labeling fans "entitled" over this box set, so if there are valid reasons why some are being so negative toward fellow fans trying to inspire a release, they had better be damned good and more than valid reasons or else there will be even more of a divide among fans of this band and the music. And maybe that's a good thing at this point? Who knows. I guess it also puts the oft-used, bogus catch-phrase defense "It's all about the music" to rest as mentioned above. Which is also a good thing. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 09, 2020, 06:18:16 PM
I signed! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 09, 2020, 06:38:11 PM
Awesome!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 10, 2020, 08:19:08 AM
Quote
I think fans will possibly be more incentivized to sign and share, and may get more fired up if they think there's some sort of injustice happening against the wishes of the last surviving Wilson brother in particular, and the legacies of his late brothers are seemingly being f*cked with and diminished.

Great point, CD. Perhaps in our public pleas for signatures we can also add that in. No matter what is holding this set up, it certainly is an injustice, not only to the Wilson brothers, but to the music itself that this set has been such a pain for someone in the band that it is unlikely to even be released.

Quote
I think the examples of the BW shows and setlists above pretty much called out the hypocrisy of those labeling fans "entitled" over this box set, so if there are valid reasons why some are being so negative toward fellow fans trying to inspire a release, they had better be damned good and more than valid reasons or else there will be even more of a divide among fans of this band and the music. And maybe that's a good thing at this point?

Guitarfool, I completely agree. I’m sure the reasons are 100% valid to the people inspiring and promoting the negativity (or censorship). But to regular fans, the band, and the music itself it’s a complete slap in the face. And while the OP said that the “entitled” ones were those who want the set “tomorrow”, literally no one has demanded that this set be released “tomorrow”. So I can only assume that their gripe is with those who have been vocal about getting the set released before the copyright deadline (and that basically is “tomorrow” in marketing/manufacturing terms)...which would be the 1300 fans who have signed the petition.

GF, it honestly is a good thing because it perfectly illustrates the reasons for the divide between the fandom camps. Further, it illustrates how band politics have permeated the fandom to the detriment of the music...to the point where some won’t even promote a simple webpage whose sole purpose is to help get Beach Boys music released. Again, heaven forbid that fans are enthusiastic about the music. Heaven forbid that some fans are being proactive about supporting the makers of this boxset instead of whining about entitlement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 10, 2020, 08:20:15 AM
I started following @flows_feel on Twitter that I saw popup after Van Dyke Parks and Carnie Wilson liked a post from them.  It looks like @flows_feel is posting songs from the box set era and asking people to sign the petition.  Just thought I would pass it on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 10, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
This is a really popular thread, nearly 125k views. Would not be a bad idea to update the first post in the thread with the petition. Just a thought.

https://www.change.org/p/release-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-in-2020?cs_tk=ApzpaKsVJ-TDQ94bLF8AAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvNObON_SgyMDRlcVdV8PmUk%3D&utm_campaign=23e2ebc2ef4649ffb4ecef28cccd583a&utm_content=initial_v0_0_3&utm_medium=email&utm_source=promotion_completion&utm_term=cs (https://www.change.org/p/release-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-in-2020?cs_tk=ApzpaKsVJ-TDQ94bLF8AAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvNObON_SgyMDRlcVdV8PmUk%3D&utm_campaign=23e2ebc2ef4649ffb4ecef28cccd583a&utm_content=initial_v0_0_3&utm_medium=email&utm_source=promotion_completion&utm_term=cs)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on September 10, 2020, 03:29:02 PM
This is the only part of the URL you need to use:
https://www.change.org/p/release-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-in-2020

It goes to the correct location. The question mark and everything after it in the post above are tracking for an email promotion. (Full disclosure, I used to put together email promos as part of my job, so I know how to recognize the tracking parts of a URL.)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 10, 2020, 03:56:47 PM
Forums like this log multiple views per user though, right? E.g. I've probably viewed this thread 30 times, maybe more - practically, the number of individuals who've actually viewed the thread may be something like 5% of that large figure


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on September 10, 2020, 04:24:29 PM
Funny I started to read this whole thread (well, most of it...) the exact same day that the release of Tom Petty's long-awaited Wildflowers & All the Rest album was finally announced.

In that particular case, the delay was due to legal and family disputes between Petty's daughters and his widow. (I seem to remember it was annonced by TP himself around 2012 / 2013, four or five years before he passed away).

Completely different situation, of course, but there's a similarity in that we might finally hear the best music that particular artist's ever recorded.

So, it might take years for Feel Flows to finally come out, but I'm not losing hope!
Let's just hope it comes out in our lifetimes and that it doesn't have time to become another "BB mythic lost album" like Smile.

I signed the petition.
 
Greetings from Belgium.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on September 10, 2020, 04:27:27 PM
I just signed.

Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 10, 2020, 05:03:29 PM
This is the only part of the URL you need to use:
https://www.change.org/p/release-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-in-2020

It goes to the correct location. The question mark and everything after it in the post above are tracking for an email promotion. (Full disclosure, I used to put together email promos as part of my job, so I know how to recognize the tracking parts of a URL.)


Good information...thanks


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 10, 2020, 05:30:03 PM
Billy C. Is the man! 8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: patsy6 on September 10, 2020, 06:03:04 PM
Funny I started to read this whole thread (well, most of it...) the exact same day that the release of Tom Petty's long-awaited Wildflowers & All the Rest album was finally announced.

In that particular case, the delay was due to legal and family disputes between Petty's daughters and his widow. (I seem to remember it was annonced by TP himself around 2012 / 2013, four or five years before he passed away).

Completely different situation, of course, but there's a similarity in that we might finally hear the best music that particular artist's ever recorded.

So, it might take years for Feel Flows to finally come out, but I'm not losing hope!
Let's just hope it comes out in our lifetimes and that it doesn't have time to become another "BB mythic lost album" like Smile.

I signed the petition.
 
Greetings from Belgium.
Another similarity is that we'll get to hear Carl Wilson's great voice on both the Feel Flows box set and the Wildflowers box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on September 12, 2020, 10:14:11 PM
I posted a comment on a Al Jardine Facebook page post that read “Please release the Feel Flows boxset.

A short time later I received a notification that said, “Al Jardine likes your comment “.

Not that it was Al himself and, this was like a month ago. But it gave me hope.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 13, 2020, 10:21:49 AM
I posted a comment on a Al Jardine Facebook page post that read “Please release the Feel Flows boxset.

A short time later I received a notification that said, “Al Jardine likes your comment “.

Not that it was Al himself and, this was like a month ago. But it gave me hope.

I'm still keeping the faith myself. What you mentioned above is just more evidence that, as if anyone had any doubt, Al and Brian must want the box out as they support this material, while one member (who regularly acts like a member of a different kind) stays completely silent about this material sticks and thus out like a sore thumb.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 13, 2020, 06:25:14 PM
I posted a comment on a Al Jardine Facebook page post that read “Please release the Feel Flows boxset.

A short time later I received a notification that said, “Al Jardine likes your comment “.

Not that it was Al himself and, this was like a month ago. But it gave me hope.

I'm still keeping the faith myself. What you mentioned above is just more evidence that, as if anyone had any doubt, Al and Brian must want the box out as they support this material, while one member (who regularly acts like a member of a different kind) stays completely silent about this material sticks and thus out like a sore thumb.

It's interesting though, that even if Al doesn't run his own Facebook page, whoever does run it KNOWS about the Feel Flows set. And no doubt whoever runs his page is probably close to Al personally (which is likely why they know about the set). And if the set had any crazy issues that would warrant Al not wanting it to be released then I am sure that whoever runs Al's Facebook page wouldn't touch that comment. But they did. Positively. Just one month ago. Think about that.

So Surfrider, thank you for that information, and thanks for commenting that on his page. 

Given that Al spilled the beans on the set at the beginning of the year (and his Facebook page recently liked a comment about the release of the set) you'd have to be a complete idiot to think he's one of the people blocking this set's release. It brings me right back to Mike Love. I guess it takes 2+ people to block a set from release, but this whole thing just wreaks of Mike Love's handiwork. While some elsewhere find this speculation entertaining, I find the whole thing ridiculous. There is this amazing boxset sitting on a shelf and some of us fans are trying to do something and other fans are sitting on their hands going total Greta Thunberg "how dare you!?" to those of us who simply sign a petition and discuss the set on a forum.

Regardless of who is blocking the set, I sure do hope that things are looking up these days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 13, 2020, 06:30:44 PM
Thank you from this myke and Bruce troll!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 13, 2020, 06:57:25 PM
I posted a comment on a Al Jardine Facebook page post that read “Please release the Feel Flows boxset.

A short time later I received a notification that said, “Al Jardine likes your comment “.

Not that it was Al himself and, this was like a month ago. But it gave me hope.

I'm still keeping the faith myself. What you mentioned above is just more evidence that, as if anyone had any doubt, Al and Brian must want the box out as they support this material, while one member (who regularly acts like a member of a different kind) stays completely silent about this material sticks and thus out like a sore thumb.

It's interesting though, that even if Al doesn't run his own Facebook page, whoever does run it KNOWS about the Feel Flows set. And no doubt whoever runs his page is probably close to Al personally (which is likely why they know about the set). And if the set had any crazy issues that would warrant Al not wanting it to be released then I am sure that whoever runs Al's Facebook page wouldn't touch that comment. But they did. Positively. Just one month ago. Think about that.

So Surfrider, thank you for that information, and thanks for commenting that on his page.  

Given that Al spilled the beans on the set at the beginning of the year (and his Facebook page recently liked a comment about the release of the set) you'd have to be a complete idiot to think he's one of the people blocking this set's release. It brings me right back to Mike Love. I guess it takes 2+ people to block a set from release, but this whole thing just wreaks of Mike Love's handiwork. While some elsewhere find this speculation entertaining, I find the whole thing ridiculous. There is this amazing boxset sitting on a shelf and some of us fans are trying to do something and other fans are sitting on their hands going total Greta Thunberg "how dare you!?" to those of us who simply sign a petition and discuss the set on a forum.

Regardless of who is blocking the set, I sure do hope that things are looking up these days.

Yet how do we *really* know that it "takes 2+ people to block"? I guess that seems to have been surmised from a vague ESQ post, right? But there was no detail in that, so it seems that might be an idea that was extrapolated, but perhaps incorrectly.

Not that I know any better, mind you. I just wonder why we confidently take that for being accurate. If it is indeed accurate, all I can think is that there could be all sorts of things being leveraged behind the scenes that we have no idea about, which could cause a party to buckle to Mike's desires.

Ultimately I find it difficult to see a scenario that Mike has 100% zero part in this block. Truthfully, does anybody really think that? Can anyone fathom such a "Mike has nothing whatsoever to do with this" scenario, and just think that his silence on social media is just a coincidence, and that what happened earlier this year in February couldn't possibly be a factor? I think there are plenty of  people who probably agree on this hunch, but maybe don't want to talk about it publicly.

I just think every fan should be livid that this music has been jeopardized. And not stay quiet about it. Not that I have a desire for people to be unhappy, yet I feel fans should not just be complacent, they should continue to make their voices heard, and I believe there is strength in numbers in this.

Any effort to call this "entitlement" is really absurd, and again it's a giant slap in the face to Al, Brian, and all the wonderful folks who worked so hard on this set. If I am "entitled", well I'm also the guy who was repeatedly advocating for people to purchase the MP3s of the last copyright set, which I happily did myself. I purchased it despite the fact that I exclusively listen to it via streaming it on my paid Spotify account, and I've actually never even played one of the MP3s from my hard drive, but I purchased it anyway because I feel it's very important to support the band and the people who work on this material. I basically payed for this material twice, and I would happily do it again in a heartbeat. Not looking for any pat on the back, simply stating that I put my money where my mouth is. And many such "entitled" fans would as well. And screw that nonsense lingo. Absolute horsecrap. If fans are "entitled", then the party who is actively and cruelly blocking this set should be gifted with an adjective that is far worse.

I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing. I took those words to heart. Alan's words must've been said out of somewhat of a imperative mindset that fans do what they can to support these sets, because if not they will be jeopardized.

So that's what I am continuing to do in this case. Every fan should do the same. Let's get an answer out of Mike and the rest of them. They cannot stay silent forever, and they can't deflect forever. I imagine that Brian would be fine to publicly talk about the reasons, but there's either a legal block on that, or they fear spilling the beans will lead to even further repercussions. It's an absolute tragedy for music history if this never comes out. Fans are growing older and I'm sure some will pass away in the interim if there is any significant delay. Let that sink in for a minute. it's really very sad.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 14, 2020, 07:28:00 AM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Shift on September 14, 2020, 07:55:07 AM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.

December 22, 2018 (replying to GF's post the previous day) – y're welcome:

Quote from: guitarfool2002
But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

Quote from: Alan Boyd
It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

Edited to correct date; apologies if anyone was confused.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 08:48:58 AM
John, you’re welcome:

Yeah, Melinda (oops! Cat's out of the bag on that!), one would think he'd want to stay far away from that Alan Boyd "appalling" comment. For any audience from the EH forum, here is the reply that Guitarfool gave to Alan regarding why he didn't buy that set:

Quote
When the tracks are on the Beach Boys official YouTube channel, how is it appalling to listen there?

What's appalling is to see a person who exhibited bad behavior, in some cases the words and comments bordering on slanderous and extending from trashing other fans to gossiping about and slandering band members and families, getting acknowledged. If someone insults, lies about, or in any other way wrongs people I consider friends, they're off the radar. And I don't support their future endeavors where their name is attached.

Sorry if that's offensive, but maybe a lot of people still don't know what went on and how dirty it got. Maybe I'm old fashioned but words matter and actions have consequences. In this case, that credit put a stain on an otherwise terrific project.

The part in yellow is emphasized by me. The obvious stupidity is that "someone" (your guess is probably correct lol) is casting stones at Guitarfool for listening to YouTube tracks provided BY THE BAND whilst completely ignoring that they themselves spread vile gossip about Brian Wilson's wife behind the scenes (which is why Guitarfool chose not to buy that specific set in the first place). So listening to tracks that make the band money on YouTube versus sharing the ridiculous idea that Melinda only adopted her kids for tax reasons (and that's one of the less colorful pieces of gossip)...this is a perfect example of the mindset of many of the posters over there, which is why so many of us will never sign up there. I think what's most offensive is that "someone" thinks so little of their fellow poster's intelligence that they'd be so brazen to throw shade at others for supposedly disrespecting the band (for listening to YouTube tracks? haha) given their history of actually disrespecting Brian Wilson's own family (thus obviously disrespecting Brian himself).

And sincere apologies to my fellow SS posters for bringing this up here. As I will never have an account at the "Endless Harmony" forum (probably the most ironic name they could've come up with) I'm limited to how I can reply to the absurd posts made there...and when I see complete distortion of the facts, and people trying to purposefully confuse the facts I feel I have to respond somehow. And given that these facts have never been argued against (and likely never will) hopefully this will be the last of it.

Wanted to add this in:

Hell, they singled out OSD for stating his opinions on M&B as a reason BBs fans don't deserve this set.

So if blunt fan opinions are the basis of being "ashamed" for being a part of the fandom, what feelings do these people get when Mike Love himself says that some of Brian's music "sounds like sh*t"? People are gonna have opinions, and opinions hurt less than straight up lies that can damage someone's reputation. But over there, in their odd version of reality, Mike Love being criticized for his vocals is more disruptive to the fandom than spreading complete horseshit about Melinda Wilson. Gotta love it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 14, 2020, 09:48:47 AM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.

December 21, 2006 – y're welcome:

Quote from: guitarfool2002
But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

Quote from: Alan Boyd
It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

Did Andrew tell you to do that?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 14, 2020, 09:49:30 AM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.

December 21, 2006 – y're welcome:

Quote from: guitarfool2002
But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

Quote from: Alan Boyd
It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

Did Andrew tell you to do that?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 14, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
About to post the same thing about the doester...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 14, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.

The guy that writes the liner notes and consults and works on these sets with Alan Boyd and Mark Linett has already posted in this thread multiple times. Do you really need more before you trust all of this?

I just do not understand the incredulity that some fans have about this stuff.

Not that it should matter after Howie Edelson has posted numerous times in this thread, but multiple times I've posted a link to the "Feel Flows" petition on my Facebook page, Alan Boyd has "liked" it.

I have no doubt that Alan Boyd and Mark Linett, who put tons of time and effort into this set, VERY MUCH want it to be released. Who among BB fans or scholars DOESN'T want this set released? Fans and spectators who have been watching the BB world and the industry in general over the years should know well why this doesn't mean that Boyd or Linett or Edelson can just plaster every corner of the internet personally as community activists to drum up fan support. It just can't work that way.

That's why we're doing what we're doing on this board and elsewhere.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 11:17:54 AM
Seriously, John M. When has anyone ever given a logical reason for that spreading of horseshit about Melinda? I would love an answer to this because I haven’t gotten one in the half decade since all that came out.

While you may not seem to grasp why that incident pisses off some fans, other reasonably grounded fans don’t seem to have the mental faculties (or lack thereof) to completely ignore it, either.
 
Say “y’re welcome” all you want and whine about “entitlement” over there in the land of Disharmony, but perhaps do some reflection on some of the characters you chum up with over there and then ask yourself why a huge swath of posters have absolutely no interest in joining that forum (and likely never will).

A certain sect of fans seems to be completely threatened by the fact that Melinda is in Brian’s life. When in reality every one of us fans are absolutely blessed that she is in Brian’s life. Yet people with a history of spreading sh*t about her get a pat on the back. If you can’t see the problem there, then I’m real glad that’s your first post here in 4 years.

Better bow out of this before I get accused of being Melinda Wilson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 14, 2020, 11:19:29 AM
I am Melinda! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 12:17:28 PM
Ah Melinda, my old friend...It could be worse. You could be erasing PMs to help protect a supposed “friend” only to find out they are bragging about threatening to kill people or burn their house down. Good thing I reached out AFTER I found out the supposed friend was talking sh*t about me. Now, can you please ask Brian if he’d sign the petition too?

Thanks Mrs Wilson once again!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
"I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing."

I missed this. If Alan were imploring fans to support Feel Flows, I would be more likely to jump in. I trust Alan.

The guy that writes the liner notes and consults and works on these sets with Alan Boyd and Mark Linett has already posted in this thread multiple times. Do you really need more before you trust all of this?

I just do not understand the incredulity that some fans have about this stuff.

Not that it should matter after Howie Edelson has posted numerous times in this thread, but multiple times I've posted a link to the "Feel Flows" petition on my Facebook page, Alan Boyd has "liked" it.

I have no doubt that Alan Boyd and Mark Linett, who put tons of time and effort into this set, VERY MUCH want it to be released. Who among BB fans or scholars DOESN'T want this set released? Fans and spectators who have been watching the BB world and the industry in general over the years should know well why this doesn't mean that Boyd or Linett or Edelson can just plaster every corner of the internet personally as community activists to drum up fan support. It just can't work that way.

That's why we're doing what we're doing on this board and elsewhere.

Howie stuck his neck out to give us as much info as he could without burning any bridges. Honestly the fact that he keeps getting ignored is quite frankly pissing me off


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 12:37:58 PM
I posted a comment on a Al Jardine Facebook page post that read “Please release the Feel Flows boxset.

A short time later I received a notification that said, “Al Jardine likes your comment “.

Not that it was Al himself and, this was like a month ago. But it gave me hope.

I'm still keeping the faith myself. What you mentioned above is just more evidence that, as if anyone had any doubt, Al and Brian must want the box out as they support this material, while one member (who regularly acts like a member of a different kind) stays completely silent about this material sticks and thus out like a sore thumb.

It's interesting though, that even if Al doesn't run his own Facebook page, whoever does run it KNOWS about the Feel Flows set. And no doubt whoever runs his page is probably close to Al personally (which is likely why they know about the set). And if the set had any crazy issues that would warrant Al not wanting it to be released then I am sure that whoever runs Al's Facebook page wouldn't touch that comment. But they did. Positively. Just one month ago. Think about that.

So Surfrider, thank you for that information, and thanks for commenting that on his page. 

Given that Al spilled the beans on the set at the beginning of the year (and his Facebook page recently liked a comment about the release of the set) you'd have to be a complete idiot to think he's one of the people blocking this set's release. It brings me right back to Mike Love. I guess it takes 2+ people to block a set from release, but this whole thing just wreaks of Mike Love's handiwork. While some elsewhere find this speculation entertaining, I find the whole thing ridiculous. There is this amazing boxset sitting on a shelf and some of us fans are trying to do something and other fans are sitting on their hands going total Greta Thunberg "how dare you!?" to those of us who simply sign a petition and discuss the set on a forum.

Regardless of who is blocking the set, I sure do hope that things are looking up these days.

Yet how do we *really* know that it "takes 2+ people to block"? I guess that seems to have been surmised from a vague ESQ post, right? But there was no detail in that, so it seems that might be an idea that was extrapolated, but perhaps incorrectly.

Not that I know any better, mind you. I just wonder why we confidently take that for being accurate. If it is indeed accurate, all I can think is that there could be all sorts of things being leveraged behind the scenes that we have no idea about, which could cause a party to buckle to Mike's desires.

Ultimately I find it difficult to see a scenario that Mike has 100% zero part in this block. Truthfully, does anybody really think that? Can anyone fathom such a "Mike has nothing whatsoever to do with this" scenario, and just think that his silence on social media is just a coincidence, and that what happened earlier this year in February couldn't possibly be a factor? I think there are plenty of  people who probably agree on this hunch, but maybe don't want to talk about it publicly.

I just think every fan should be livid that this music has been jeopardized. And not stay quiet about it. Not that I have a desire for people to be unhappy, yet I feel fans should not just be complacent, they should continue to make their voices heard, and I believe there is strength in numbers in this.

Any effort to call this "entitlement" is really absurd, and again it's a giant slap in the face to Al, Brian, and all the wonderful folks who worked so hard on this set. If I am "entitled", well I'm also the guy who was repeatedly advocating for people to purchase the MP3s of the last copyright set, which I happily did myself. I purchased it despite the fact that I exclusively listen to it via streaming it on my paid Spotify account, and I've actually never even played one of the MP3s from my hard drive, but I purchased it anyway because I feel it's very important to support the band and the people who work on this material. I basically payed for this material twice, and I would happily do it again in a heartbeat. Not looking for any pat on the back, simply stating that I put my money where my mouth is. And many such "entitled" fans would as well. And screw that nonsense lingo. Absolute horsecrap. If fans are "entitled", then the party who is actively and cruelly blocking this set should be gifted with an adjective that is far worse.

I remember when Alan Boyd came to this site and implored fans to support the 68-69 set, and reminded everyone how important it was to do so. That it was extremely important for fan support to continue, and for the label to see that fan support continuing. I took those words to heart. Alan's words must've been said out of somewhat of a imperative mindset that fans do what they can to support these sets, because if not they will be jeopardized.

So that's what I am continuing to do in this case. Every fan should do the same. Let's get an answer out of Mike and the rest of them. They cannot stay silent forever, and they can't deflect forever. I imagine that Brian would be fine to publicly talk about the reasons, but there's either a legal block on that, or they fear spilling the beans will lead to even further repercussions. It's an absolute tragedy for music history if this never comes out. Fans are growing older and I'm sure some will pass away in the interim if there is any significant delay. Let that sink in for a minute. it's really very sad.


Here here !

For the record, when I buy digital only releases I burn them to cd to listen to them on the car, but at home I listen on Spotify or on the (Official)YouTube page so the artist continues to get paid (very little but it still counts). As I am an artist who currently only has digital releases , it’s only fair. I will do the same regardless of what format this set gets. So yeah, the BB will be getting money from me regardless


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 14, 2020, 12:47:02 PM
So if AGD's name was in the Feel Flows liner notes, we could end this thread now?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 14, 2020, 12:56:02 PM
Why is it that the creators of an official project also have to be the ones lobbying for its release? Howie came here only to clear up confusion regarding the Feel Flows status.

The Beach Boys' so-called "publication of record" should be pressing this matter on its social media platforms. That's what a fan page and fanzine is there for. Not JUST Sharon Marie discographies or promoting how many fired BB sidepersons they can collect for their comedy projects.

This situation is only proving how weak, biased, and fearful ESQ is (and always was).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 12:59:10 PM
So if AGD's name was in the Feel Flows liner notes, we could end this thread now?

They’d just be copied from other people’s work anyway 🤣


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 01:00:10 PM
Why is it that the creators of an official project also have to be the ones lobbying for its release? Howie came here only to clear up confusion regarding the Feel Flows status.

The Beach Boys' so-called "publication of record" should be pressing this matter on its social media platforms. That's what a fan page and fanzine is there for. Not JUST Sharon Marie discographies or promoting how many fired BB sidepersons they can collect for their comedy projects.

This situation is only proving how weak, biased, and fearful ESQ is (and always was).
ESQ doesn’t want to piss Mike off


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 01:19:40 PM
Why is it that the creators of an official project also have to be the ones lobbying for its release? Howie came here only to clear up confusion regarding the Feel Flows status.

The Beach Boys' so-called "publication of record" should be pressing this matter on its social media platforms. That's what a fan page and fanzine is there for. Not JUST Sharon Marie discographies or promoting how many fired BB sidepersons they can collect for their comedy projects.

This situation is only proving how weak, biased, and fearful ESQ is (and always was).
ESQ doesn’t want to piss Mike off

I wish they would just outright admit that.
 
But of course that would be impossible because that itself would piss Mike off


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 14, 2020, 02:13:22 PM
I reckon there's next to nothing you can do that wouldn't piss Mike off.

Ever since someone fxxked with formula many decades ago Mike's been in a permanent state of pissed off.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 14, 2020, 03:10:00 PM
There must be something about fans supporting this petition or something about fans speaking out in general to encourage a release of this set which is upsetting these people enough that it leads to nonsense like this stuff posted today by a guy who hasn't posted here or even bothered with this forum (except to criticize and lie about it from afar) in 4 years.

Ask yourself why this petition, and the whole scenario surrounding the fans speaking their minds about this set, is causing so much strife and anger for these people to where they're denigrating the petition, mocking the fans signing it, and in general doing what they can to divert and distract from the actual issue everyone is talking about.

As if it needs to be said again, this is who they are and this is what they do. And it may also be why the viewership on their home turf rarely goes higher than 15-20 readers at any given time of the day.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RONDEMON on September 14, 2020, 04:32:02 PM
My wild guess is that certain folks don't want to release this set until they're able to tour. Or that one of the songwriters of the Sunflower album doesn't want his unreleased or demo material to be heard by the public.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on September 14, 2020, 04:47:22 PM
Hearing about the drama surrounding this set's release/non-release really shows that sometimes things never change. It's tradition at this point that any good beach boys music doesn't come out and we get left with misguided table scraps and bitter feelings. Here's hoping there is a change in the cards this time...

I don't have much hope left and I wish I haven't heard about the set in the first place...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 05:07:36 PM
Hearing about the drama surrounding this set's release/non-release really shows that sometimes things never change. It's tradition at this point that any good beach boys music doesn't come out and we get left with misguided table scraps and bitter feelings. Here's hoping there is a change in the cards this time...

I don't have much hope left and I wish I haven't heard about the set in the first place...

The tradition is that when it comes to artistic decisions (releasing, recording, completing or otherwise) regarding material under "The Beach Boys" name, there is a nauseating pattern that goes back for decades of Brian's artistic desires too often getting sh*t on by the same party, over and over again. In one way or another. Sometimes it's only a contributing factor, and sometimes it's the main factor. It's not a black-and-white situation, but it's still very much a problem. Once is too many times.

As VDP said in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, and I'm paraphrasing, of all people, Brian as an artist should get to make the decisions and get the support he deserves.

I don't know what VDP and BW's relationship is like these days, but it would sure be interesting to know what he thinks about this box being jeopardized. As well as the great Stephen Desper, who worked so incredibly hard on all of the intricacies and sounds, who used futuristic technology that we should all be grateful for. His great work is jeopardized too.

The fact that somehow this Feel Flows box set decision rests with other parties is a great injustice. Brian is going to go down in history as one of the great artists of the 20th century. He is the *last* guy who should be dealing with what have historically been ego-driven blockades, and walking on eggshells to avoid the wrath of narcissists. While that's not exclusively the reason why things sometimes don't work out right, it's nevertheless been a highly troubling recurring theme that is really, really terrible.

Imagine having a thorn in your side for that many years. I would have self medicated as well.

Jack Rieley's famous/infamous quote about the pathological tragedy of this band's greatest music being unheard and underappreciated becomes even more astoundingly accurate and stunningly ahead of its time when considering how that quote was made regarding the Feel Flows box set era of music - the very same era of music that once again is jeopardized and endangered, being fraught with these types of "let's go ahead and NOT release this music, mkay?" garbage issues half a century later.  

Jack KNEW.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 05:24:32 PM
My wild guess is that certain folks don't want to release this set until they're able to tour. Or that one of the songwriters of the Sunflower album doesn't want his unreleased or demo material to be heard by the public.


That would make perfect sense


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
My wild guess is that certain folks don't want to release this set until they're able to tour. Or that one of the songwriters of the Sunflower album doesn't want his unreleased or demo material to be heard by the public.


That would make perfect sense

If it were really as simple as just one living member not wanting their own demo material released, wouldn't the easy solution to simply be delete several tracks from the set, and then release the rest of it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 06:10:27 PM
Seriously, John M. When has anyone ever given a logical reason for that spreading of horseshit about Melinda? I would love an answer to this because I haven’t gotten one in the half decade since all that came out.

While you may not seem to grasp why that incident pisses off some fans, other reasonably grounded fans don’t seem to have the mental faculties (or lack thereof) to completely ignore it, either.
 
Say “y’re welcome” all you want and whine about “entitlement” over there in the land of Disharmony, but perhaps do some reflection on some of the characters you chum up with over there and then ask yourself why a huge swath of posters have absolutely no interest in joining that forum (and likely never will).

A certain sect of fans seems to be completely threatened by the fact that Melinda is in Brian’s life. When in reality every one of us fans are absolutely blessed that she is in Brian’s life. Yet people with a history of spreading sh*t about her get a pat on the back. If you can’t see the problem there, then I’m real glad that’s your first post here in 4 years.

Better bow out of this before I get accused of being Melinda Wilson.

Waiting for a response, John. I know I won't get one, given the track record from your cadre. But here's to hoping that perhaps, by some miracle, we'll see some adult response from the children from the EH forum.

Seriously, waiting for some adult/ratiuonal explanation for the bullshit that was lobbed at Melinda Wilson. I know, you can't give a rational expiation. But I just wanted to prove to every member of each forum who keeps watch over these threads that YOU CAN'T. And thus, when you're side vehemently defends Mike Love it just becomes a joke because facts and simple logic just don't seem to jibe with what you all spew out over at the Disharmony forum.

Again, waiting for a response that won't come. But good try, sport!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 06:27:04 PM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 06:53:07 PM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

I can only hope, which I think is a longshot, that somebody privately who has Mike's ear could potentially nudge him to agree to release this box. But if it's about a grudge, ego, and decades old grievances, which I suspect are part of what's happening here, it would probably be a fat chance. And I also wouldn't doubt if there are people who actually think that fans staying silent will result in a better chance of the band releasing the box. I don't know what the right answer is. But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 07:06:42 PM
The entitlement crap is what pisses me off. I mean, most of us have shown concern for the songs hitting public domain, and also for everyone like Howie not having their work be in vain. That’s not entitlement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

I can only hope, which I think is a longshot, that somebody privately who has Mike's ear could potentially nudge him to agree to release this box. But if it's about a grudge, ego, and decades old grievances, which I suspect are part of what's happening here, it would probably be a fat chance. And I also wouldn't doubt if there are people who actually think that fans staying silent will result in a better chance of the band releasing the box. I don't know what the right answer is. But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.

If someone who does have Mike’s ear reads this...please remind him that his contributions to this era are highly regarded.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 07:11:02 PM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

I can only hope, which I think is a longshot, that somebody privately who has Mike's ear could potentially nudge him to agree to release this box. But if it's about a grudge, ego, and decades old grievances, which I suspect are part of what's happening here, it would probably be a fat chance. And I also wouldn't doubt if there are people who actually think that fans staying silent will result in a better chance of the band releasing the box. I don't know what the right answer is. But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.

If someone who does have Mike’s ear reads this...please remind him that his contributions to this era are highly regarded.

Ain't that the truth. For whatever shenanigans Mike does which greatly piss me off, I will always give the man respect for the great work he did, and this era certainly has it. Some people would rather cut off their nose to spite their face.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 07:39:42 PM
But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.

Well, when you sign a dinky petition the criticism is completely warranted. I mean, we are fans who have each likely spent $thousands+ supporting this band. But heaven forbid when one of the MAKERS of this set comes onto this forum telling us this set is SHELVED that we don't sit on our hands like others do. Actually, sitting on their hands is giving them too much credit. No, they have to bitch and whine about Guitarfool because he wasn't cool with a credit that went toward a dude who lobbed complete bullshit at Melinda Wilson. But we're the ones who need a slap on the wrist for being entitled. It's fucking comical.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 07:55:48 PM
But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.

Well, when you sign a dinky petition the criticism is completely warranted. I mean, we are fans who have each likely spent $thousands+ supporting this band. But heaven forbid when one of the MAKERS of this set comes onto this forum telling us this set is SHELVED that we don't sit on our hands like others do. Actually, sitting on their hands is giving them too much credit. No, they have to bitch and whine about Guitarfool because he wasn't cool with a credit that went toward a dude who lobbed complete bullshit at Melinda Wilson. But we're the ones who need a slap on the wrist for being entitled. It's fucking comical.

If Darian and The Wonderments didn't particularly actively give a f*ck about "shelved" music, then BWPS and TSS in all likelihood would never exist. Nor would Brian likely have the personal closure of this albatross that had been around his neck for decades.

What if this set is being held up or heaven forbid canceled because of a personal grudge? I just want to know how everybody would actually react to that if that were a fact. Again, it would be an absolute tragedy. Or are there people who are really genuinely fans of this band who would just shrug that off and not be deeply bothered by it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2020, 08:03:26 PM
But nobody should be criticized for actually giving a f*ck.

Well, when you sign a dinky petition the criticism is completely warranted. I mean, we are fans who have each likely spent $thousands+ supporting this band. But heaven forbid when one of the MAKERS of this set comes onto this forum telling us this set is SHELVED that we don't sit on our hands like others do. Actually, sitting on their hands is giving them too much credit. No, they have to bitch and whine about Guitarfool because he wasn't cool with a credit that went toward a dude who lobbed complete bullshit at Melinda Wilson. But we're the ones who need a slap on the wrist for being entitled. It's fucking comical.

If Darian and The Wonderments didn't particularly actively give a f*ck about "shelved" music, then BWPS and TSS in all likelihood would never exist.

Well now you’re talking logic, which isn’t something readily apparent to some.I just get pissed when someone shows up after four years to throw an out-of-context post in the mix to somehow prove something. When context is key and that context is something that has yet to be explained by anyone from that gang...and likely never will. I would love to know what PMs are flying around right now regarding the latest posts in this thread. As long as my address isn’t being procured or I’m not being accused of being Melinda Wilson I guess I’m doing something wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 14, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
I for one am looking forward to the day where I can heap well-deserved praise on Mike, as well as each and every member of this band, for their stellar work on the set. And everybody is old, time is running short.

To think of having petty arguments while pushing 80 is just the dumbest/saddest thing I can possibly think of for how to spend those years. I can't decide whether it's more dumb or more sad, but one certainty is that it's absolutely tragic. Most especially if it involves family.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 14, 2020, 08:31:41 PM
Glad that all my enemies (not that I have many lol) will be long gone by the time I reach 80; I can’t imagine holding a grudge for that many decades.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 14, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
Sorry to be obnoxiously repetitive, guys, but someone has got to leak the track listing for FEEL FLOWS to the press. It's the best shot to get things moving.

Of course, no one is "entitied" to see that, since it "doesn't exist" because someone "who knows nothing" about what's in his band's archives isn't having another hissy fit...  ::)

Let the media do the heavy lifting for us. As I said before, can there possibly be another project with this band that's worth kow-towing to the latest version of "blowing it"? The breadth and depth of the BB's future artistic legacy is on the line right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on September 14, 2020, 10:05:57 PM
You guys, a vast majority here seriously have no idea what actually goes on behind closed doors with this band, its members, or the families and people closest to it. Please attempt to show a sign of respect to the band and act like fans they deserve, take the high road. Build each other up, don’t tear each other down. Heed the advice found in some of the band’s most heartfelt and meaningful lyrics. Lyrics that you guys are fans of.

The endless bickering is extremely laughable, and quite frankly, your clouded endless speculation has led most here to become way off-base as to the details of this possible release. Also, it’s apparent that you have no idea how absurd this looks because this thread has turned into a disgrace.

I truly wish for the fandom that this place would be more filled with discussions found in the last couple of pages of the insignificant questions thread than what’s been going on in this thread alone. I get it, this is a place to discuss and speculate, but it can be done in a much much more appropriate way.

Support the possible release of this set, but try to do it in a more positive manner.

“I was sittin' in a crummy movie with my hands on my chin
Oh the violence that occurs seems like we never win

Love and mercy that's what you need tonight
So, love and mercy to you and your friends tonight

I was lyin' in my room and the news came on T.V.
A lotta people out there hurtin' and it really scares me

Love and mercy that's what you need tonight
So, love and mercy to you and your friends tonight

I was standin' in a bar and watchin' all the people there

Oh the loneliness in this world well it's just not fair

Hey love and mercy that's what you need tonight
So, love and mercy to you and your friends tonight

Love and mercy that's what you need tonight
Love and mercy tonight”

B


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 15, 2020, 03:52:58 AM
I'd say there's been relatively little bickering in the thread overall. Most people are on the same page - we've been given clear info by those in the know, and there are a few (especially on other boards apparently) who fancy themselves the intellectual gatekeepers re: what exists in the vaults and how fans ought to behave.

It seems clear that Al, Bruce and probably Brian want this material heard - there are several indicators of this now. But I guess those guys are just entitled or misinformed like the rest of us  ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 15, 2020, 07:46:48 AM
As editor and publisher of, not one, but TWO Beach Boys fanzines, I’m pleased to announce my enthusiastic encouragement for the release of the FEEL FLOWS box set! Although it has been 40 years since issue three of Celebrate the Newsletter came out, my readers (those that are still alive) learned long ago to grow accustomed to each subsequent issue being later than the one before! In any case, rumors are swirling that a new edition is ready to roll off the (dust covered) presses!  Celebrate the Newsletter Issue FOUR could feature a candid, behind-the-scenes look into the inner workings of this 5 CD sets’ hold up!  That’s right, fellow fans!  An EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW with a close former friend and confidante of the culprit/culprits largely responsible for the delay will highlight issue 4, which is due out as soon as this box set is OFFICIALLY eliminated from any possible release! 

I’m sensitive to the fact that this inside source doesn’t wish to jeopardize the release of FEEL FLOWS by giving out inside information that could further damage the aforementioned culprit/culprits’ reputation, but its my belief that my informer will gladly open this “Pandora’s Box” if the set ultimately stays on the shelf, to be lost for fans forever.

If, on the other hand, FEEL FLOWS actually DOES come out in its 5 CD box set form, issue 4 of CTN will obviously lose its main attraction, but will still provide lots of mirth and merriment for its readers!  Thanks for listening!

And, as a side note, this “inside source” is NOT anyone directly involved with putting this box set together! If you’re familiar with my two fanzines, you’ll know exactly how serious this is!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 15, 2020, 08:07:37 AM
My wild guess is that certain folks don't want to release this set until they're able to tour. Or that one of the songwriters of the Sunflower album doesn't want his unreleased or demo material to be heard by the public.


These are not factors in the set's delays.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 15, 2020, 08:44:41 AM
You guys, a vast majority here seriously have no idea what actually goes on behind closed doors with this band, its members, or the families and people closest to it. Please attempt to show a sign of respect to the band and act like fans they deserve, take the high road. Build each other up, don’t tear each other down. Heed the advice found in some of the band’s most heartfelt and meaningful lyrics. Lyrics that you guys are fans of.

The endless bickering is extremely laughable, and quite frankly, your clouded endless speculation has led most here to become way off-base as to the details of this possible release. Also, it’s apparent that you have no idea how absurd this looks because this thread has turned into a disgrace.

I truly wish for the fandom that this place would be more filled with discussions found in the last couple of pages of the insignificant questions thread than what’s been going on in this thread alone. I get it, this is a place to discuss and speculate, but it can be done in a much much more appropriate way.

Support the possible release of this set, but try to do it in a more positive manner.


With all due respect, I love talking about the most arcane of minutia when it comes to the BBs, but talking about who played the third overdubbed percussion on one track in 1965 is not going to help get "Feel Flows" released.

I've tried to help steer people away from fixating on naming the "who" in all of this, and especially the "why", because it's un-guess-able. I'd love for such a thread to remain 100% free of any excessive/unbecoming potshots and name-calling. But overall I think this thread has stayed on track. It hasn't become excessively ugly or anything. There's a lot of of speculation, much of which is not accurate. But I think it's all being pitched as speculation and guess work, because the band isn't discussing anything, and the "fanzine of record" for the band is also MIA on this.

This thread is not a "disgrace." I'm frankly tired of people popping into this thread with little or no contribution to it, only to cast their own judgment on it, or on the movement to get this set released.

If you want to have an "ESQ" attitude about this, say nothing, afford every band member every benefit of the doubt when it certainly seems like at least some members *do not* respect their fans, then have at it.

Bickering and name-calling and ugliness about the band and all of this is not productive. But that's not what this thread is. It's about keeping the conversation going, it's about making sure people don't forget about the issue of releasing this set. It's about not going back to threads about remixes of "Problem Child", Hal Blaine's sideburns, and s*itty Jan & Dean b-sides while ignoring this "Feel Flows" issue.

You say that most of us don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and that we should respect the band. Well, that issue of respect working both ways is something that could encompass its own thread, so I won't delve too far into that. But I will say that I *do* know what has happened/is happening when it comes to "Feel Flows", and while it has been explained a thousand times in this thread why all of that information can't just be barfed out there, I think it's fair to say that knowing what the actual deal is, it's pretty laughable to take this "let's just give everybody the benefit of the doubt" ESQ-style mentality about the set.

Further, anybody that knows how the politics of this stuff works *also* knows that immediately going into overdrive and insulting band members, or name-calling, etc. are also *not* productive. The reason the issue of this set being back-burnered got brought up here was not to turn this thing into a griping session. It was and is to make people aware it exists, without naming names or betraying confidences, and to help people realize the solution is to say *loud and often*, but respectfully, that we want this set.

That's what's happening in thread.

I think many folks here still don't understand the full subtext of what's happening with this set and more importantly the subtext of how and why we've been made aware of its existence and delay in an effort to get the thing released.

For those that like to take the sort of "mob wife" attitude when it comes to this band, the ESQ attitude if you will, of ignoring any internal politics or negativity, and want to just delve into fandom only on *their* terms and only discuss their pet interests; if you want to ignore an amazing set slipping through the cracks and just talk about what type of mics they used at Western in July of 1964, then you can continue to just do that. I personally am happy to do both. I bow to nobody in my interest in every bit of minutia with this band. But I also know how to prioritize and how to keep perspective, and keep things real.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on September 15, 2020, 08:46:22 AM
"As editor and publisher of, not one, but TWO Beach Boys fanzines, I’m pleased to announce my enthusiastic encouragement for the release of the FEEL FLOWS box set! Although it has been 40 years since issue three of Celebrate the Newsletter came out, my readers (those that are still alive) learned long ago to grow accustomed to each subsequent issue being later than the one before! In any case, rumors are swirling that a new edition is ready to roll off the (dust covered) presses!  Celebrate the Newsletter Issue FOUR could feature a candid, behind-the-scenes look into the inner workings of this 5 CD sets’ hold up!  That’s right, fellow fans!  An EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW with a close former friend and confidante of the culprit/culprits largely responsible for the delay will highlight issue 4, which is due out as soon as this box set is OFFICIALLY eliminated from any possible release!  

I’m sensitive to the fact that this inside source doesn’t wish to jeopardize the release of FEEL FLOWS by giving out inside information that could further damage the aforementioned culprit/culprits’ reputation, but its my belief that my informer will gladly open this “Pandora’s Box” if the set ultimately stays on the shelf, to be lost for fans forever.

If, on the other hand, FEEL FLOWS actually DOES come out in its 5 CD box set form, issue 4 of CTN will obviously lose its main attraction, but will still provide lots of mirth and merriment for its readers!  Thanks for listening!

And, as a side note, this “inside source” is NOT anyone directly involved with putting this box set together! If you’re familiar with my two fanzines, you’ll know exactly how serious this is!"



sounds reasonable.  go ahead, or not


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 15, 2020, 08:56:26 AM
You guys, a vast majority here seriously have no idea what actually goes on behind closed doors with this band, its members, or the families and people closest to it. Please attempt to show a sign of respect to the band and act like fans they deserve, take the high road. Build each other up, don’t tear each other down. Heed the advice found in some of the band’s most heartfelt and meaningful lyrics. Lyrics that you guys are fans of.

The endless bickering is extremely laughable, and quite frankly, your clouded endless speculation has led most here to become way off-base as to the details of this possible release. Also, it’s apparent that you have no idea how absurd this looks because this thread has turned into a disgrace.

I truly wish for the fandom that this place would be more filled with discussions found in the last couple of pages of the insignificant questions thread than what’s been going on in this thread alone. I get it, this is a place to discuss and speculate, but it can be done in a much much more appropriate way.

Support the possible release of this set, but try to do it in a more positive manner.


With all due respect, I love talking about the most arcane of minutia when it comes to the BBs, but talking about who played the third overdubbed percussion on one track in 1965 is not going to help get "Feel Flows" released.

I've tried to help steer people away from fixating on naming the "who" in all of this, and especially the "why", because it's un-guess-able. I'd love for such a thread to remain 100% free of any excessive/unbecoming potshots and name-calling. But overall I think this thread has stayed on track. It hasn't become excessively ugly or anything. There's a lot of of speculation, much of which is not accurate. But I think it's all being pitched as speculation and guess work, because the band isn't discussing anything, and the "fanzine of record" for the band is also MIA on this.

This thread is not a "disgrace." I'm frankly tired of people popping into this thread with little or no contribution to it, only to cast their own judgment on it, or on the movement to get this set released.

If you want to have an "ESQ" attitude about this, say nothing, afford every band member every benefit of the doubt when it certainly seems like at least some members *do not* respect their fans, then have at it.

Bickering and name-calling and ugliness about the band and all of this is not productive. But that's not what this thread is. It's about keeping the conversation going, it's about making sure people don't forget about the issue of releasing this set. It's about not going back to threads about remixes of "Problem Child", Hal Blaine's sideburns, and s*itty Jan & Dean b-sides while ignoring this "Feel Flows" issue.

You say that most of us don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and that we should respect the band. Well, that issue of respect working both ways is something that could encompass its own thread, so I won't delve too far into that. But I will say that I *do* know what has happened/is happening when it comes to "Feel Flows", and while it has been explained a thousand times in this thread why all of that information can't just be barfed out there, I think it's fair to say that knowing what the actual deal is, it's pretty laughable to take this "let's just give everybody the benefit of the doubt" ESQ-style mentality about the set.

Further, anybody that knows how the politics of this stuff works *also* knows that immediately going into overdrive and insulting band members, or name-calling, etc. are also *not* productive. The reason the issue of this set being back-burnered got brought up here was not to turn this thing into a griping session. It was and is to make people aware it exists, without naming names or betraying confidences, and to help people realize the solution is to say *loud and often*, but respectfully, that we want this set.

That's what's happening in thread.

I think many folks here still don't understand the full subtext of what's happening with this set and more importantly the subtext of how and why we've been made aware of its existence and delay in an effort to get the thing released.

For those that like to take the sort of "mob wife" attitude when it comes to this band, the ESQ attitude if you will, of ignoring any internal politics or negativity, and want to just delve into fandom only on *their* terms and only discuss their pet interests; if you want to ignore an amazing set slipping through the cracks and just talk about what type of mics they used at Western in July of 1964, then you can continue to just do that. I personally am happy to do both. I bow to nobody in my interest in every bit of minutia with this band. But I also know how to prioritize and how to keep perspective, and keep things real.

Can you tell us if there is any movement at all in getting it released, positive or negative?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 15, 2020, 10:06:59 AM
Mtaber, could you interview Rocky for issue 4? >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 15, 2020, 10:12:36 AM
For those that like to take the sort of "mob wife" attitude when it comes to this band, the ESQ attitude if you will, of ignoring any internal politics or negativity, and want to just delve into fandom only on *their* terms and only discuss their pet interests; if you want to ignore an amazing set slipping through the cracks and just talk about what type of mics they used at Western in July of 1964, then you can continue to just do that. I personally am happy to do both. I bow to nobody in my interest in every bit of minutia with this band. But I also know how to prioritize and how to keep perspective, and keep things real.

This snippet from a brilliant post from Hey Jude is one we should all put as the sig lines in our posts. And that "mob wife" metaphor is so on-target, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Quite possibly the greatest sentence posted here ever...thanks, man!

Don't want to pile on GV33, as I suspect he had decent intentions, so I will leave the blowtorch on the shelf and simply reprint what Howie wrote so that there is one more signpost for it in the thread, with one comment. From July 29, 20/20:

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.


The "disgrace" will be if Howie's incredibly hard work winds up being for naught. Before any of us are overly tempted to saddle up that big, tall moral high horse, let's keep that in the forefront of our thoughts. "Love and Mercy" for a world that, right now, can use all that it can get would get a tangible boost with the release of FEEL FLOWS.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 15, 2020, 12:03:52 PM
Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 15, 2020, 12:09:48 PM
Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Joel Goldenberg is actually a poster here. Hopefully it's just the start of publications talking about this. Thanks for posting, Cork! And thanks Joel for writing this up!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 15, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
Great work Joel!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 15, 2020, 12:23:43 PM
Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Most excellent that word of this set is gaining traction. Let's keep things going in this direction :)

I would hope that *every* BBs fan could be happy that an article was finally published about the set, hopefully it's just the first of many.

I can imagine some pushback about this article from a small amount of people who'd be offended at an article giving even a tiny drop of speculation that Mike could have something to do with it, but if Mike really truly has nothing to do with what's going on here, he most certainly could address that injustice via social media, just as in February when he addressed the horrible injustice of being implored by decent people to not play a show promoting killing animals for fun, fun, fun.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 15, 2020, 12:28:03 PM
For those that like to take the sort of "mob wife" attitude when it comes to this band, the ESQ attitude if you will, of ignoring any internal politics or negativity, and want to just delve into fandom only on *their* terms and only discuss their pet interests; if you want to ignore an amazing set slipping through the cracks and just talk about what type of mics they used at Western in July of 1964, then you can continue to just do that. I personally am happy to do both. I bow to nobody in my interest in every bit of minutia with this band. But I also know how to prioritize and how to keep perspective, and keep things real.

This snippet from a brilliant post from Hey Jude is one we should all put as the sig lines in our posts. And that "mob wife" metaphor is so on-target, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Quite possibly the greatest sentence posted here ever...thanks, man!

Don't want to pile on GV33, as I suspect he had decent intentions, so I will leave the blowtorch on the shelf and simply reprint what Howie wrote so that there is one more signpost for it in the thread, with one comment. From July 29, 20/20:

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.


The "disgrace" will be if Howie's incredibly hard work winds up being for naught. Before any of us are overly tempted to saddle up that big, tall moral high horse, let's keep that in the forefront of our thoughts. "Love and Mercy" for a world that, right now, can use all that it can get would get a tangible boost with the release of FEEL FLOWS.



Just bumping these posts for the benefit of anyone still questioning if the set exists. It's amazing how much time has gone by since that first post in July to where the existence of the set is still being questioned in the middle of September.

And great to see that Joel had his article about the set published - That more people that know, the better.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 15, 2020, 12:42:32 PM
Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 15, 2020, 12:51:53 PM
Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

My sense is that a very small group of fans are trying to question as much about this as they possibly can without specifically calling the hand full of knowledgeable sources into question (although sometimes they pretty much are).

I think that small group of fans is a mixture of stubborn fans, the "ten thumbs up, everything's great" fans with blinders on, and people who are frustrated they're not looped in on what's going on behind the scenes, and instead of believing those who *are" looped in, are kind of projecting/deflecting by remaining comically overly-skeptical.

When it comes to "Feel Flows", there is ample evidence to respectfully simply call/ask/proselytize about calling for this set's release. There isn't enough public information to make a like of 50 assumptions/accusations. This is why the focus needs to remain on calling for this set to be released, because that small group of skeptics that are out of the loop seem to latch onto complaining about the fringe theories rather than simply joining all together and telling the band we want this set released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 15, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

My sense is that a very small group of fans are trying to question as much about this as they possibly can without specifically calling the hand full of knowledgeable sources into question (although sometimes they pretty much are).

To add to this: I and perhaps another speculated that a delay probably was due to COVID, Jon Stebbins came here and said the holdup had nothing to do with COVID (basically spelled out in crayon that the problem was band politics), and that the prospect of the problem getting "worked out" was "not looking good"...keep in mind, there is still questioning as to whether or not there is even a problem. Jon Stebbins also said that the "label wants it" but yet this information is also being ignored because people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows (otherwise why else would this ridiculous incident keep being brought up in these Feel Flows threads?). It appears that you, HeyJude, have some insider information that you've been able to confirm the severity of the situation (and you've done this several times in the last month), and yet the questioning you speak of keeps rearing its head.

It's just interesting to watch that a lot of the questioning seems to be aimed at posts here...to the point where valuable insider information is incredulously ignored. It's almost like to some it's more important to berate a petition or berate worried fans than it is to find a productive way to help get this set released. Who benefits from this behavior?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 15, 2020, 03:22:00 PM
Is anyone questioning the existence of the set other than in a deliberately pedantic way?
Or, a better question might be, is anyone questioning the existence of the project or the work done on said project?

Anybody who is is also probably a Flat Earther


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 15, 2020, 07:44:40 PM
Oh come the f*** on.

Mike has a bug up his ass, like usual, and is blocking an amazing testament to the group's artistry.

He blocked the fucking Pet Sounds boxed set for a year.

Our reliable sources have made it plain as day, and anyone who would doubt that is an idiot.

End of story.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on September 15, 2020, 08:56:28 PM
I’m getting tired of checking this thread.

I see both ‘fans ‘ point of view.

Yes we are ‘owed’ nothing .. but we know it exists.

And we are trying to do whatever it takes to get released.

I don’t know where all of the ‘entitled’ crap comes from.
Jeez. Some of us are really into the thought of hearing new music.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 16, 2020, 02:58:41 AM
It shouldn't even be a controversy. Brian, Al and Bruce all want it out. I've not a shadow of a doubt that Carl and Dennis would too, if they were alive today. That leaves Mike (and Carl's estate who obviously make their own decisions). I think that's the biggest injustice - what right does Mike have to block a set which is mostly made up of compositions by Brian, Carl, Dennis, Bruce and Al? Let's not kid ourselves - Mike made a couple solid contributions in this period - but frankly they make up a very small percentage of the group's activity at the time. Especially if we don't count All I Wanna Do which was written at the end of 1967.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 16, 2020, 04:45:26 AM
ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 16, 2020, 05:17:10 AM
I don’t know where all of the ‘entitled’ crap comes from.

I legitimately don’t know either. The person who originally posted that on the EH forum aimed that accusation at people who wanted the set out “tomorrow” when literally no one has said they want it out tomorrow. The person who initially lobbed the entitlement statement there also signed the petition which specifically states that the signers want to hear this music “as soon as possible” - which could very well mean “tomorrow” if it’s possible. I don’t want to say they’re accusing themselves of entitlement, but then I’m also completely confused as to who they are accusing.

There are many people worried about the copyright deadline which is why many of us want the set out before midnight December 31, 2020...which is why many of us signed the petition.
______

That’s great news about ESQ! That along with Joel’s article will hopefully create some buzz.

Custom Machine also posted this on the EH forum:

Quote
And ESQ is teasing us again, this time with the word “several” in the new Fall 2020 issue: “There are several big announcements in The Beach Boys world coming soon.”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on September 16, 2020, 05:59:43 AM
So, ESQ finally joins the team, that's great. That along with Joels article means that we're finally getting some kind of movement on this. This is only the start people, BB fans gather!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 16, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Rab said "people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows" which points out a real issue for labels right now. Digital sales are dead now where streaming is offered. It's devastating. No band or label wants to give away music for free. I could imagine those holding this up are struggling to decide whether it's worth the cost to manufacture an expansive set now that digital is dead. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on September 16, 2020, 07:25:23 AM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:11:21 AM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

None of that has anything to do with "Feel Flows." The delays have nothing to do with fear of low sales or otherwise questioning the economics of releasing the set. The set is NOT in jeopardy because anybody thinks not enough people bought previous sets.

I guess you can start another thread if you want to litigate one person's buying habits from multiple years ago. But on the topic of "Feel Flows", the delays have ZERO to do with marketability/economics/sales projections type of issues. The delays have ZERO to do with what anybody at BRI or Capitol think about the buying vs. streaming habits of potential customers. The delays certainly have ZERO to do with what *one* person said about streaming/downloading a set multiple years ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 16, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

In response to Hey Jude: Apologies if I missed an insider making this claim. I find it hard to believe that economics don't play into this (look at the way Andrew Sandoval talks about the struggle to get out any expanded Monkee releases), but I stand corrected if Alan or Mark have stated otherwise.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:17:02 AM
Rab said "people keep implying that due to one guy not buying a digital release in 2018 that the label may not have faith in the fan support for Feel Flows" which points out a real issue for labels right now. Digital sales are dead now where streaming is offered. It's devastating. No band or label wants to give away music for free. I could imagine those holding this up are struggling to decide whether it's worth the cost to manufacture an expansive set now that digital is dead. 

The delays on "Feel Flows" do not have anything to do with fear or doubts about potential overheard costs or sales numbers. To be clear: "Feel Flows" is not a victim of whatever ills have befallen the record industry. All of those factors, including potential sales on a "Feel Flows" set, were all known and considered prior to the set being prepped and ready to go. The delays are due to completely different factors having nothing to do with budgets or record industry trends, etc.

Also, as has been pointed out many times in the thread, almost all of the overhead costs have already been paid out on this set. They've already paid to research, transfer, mix, master, commission liner notes, prep artwork, etc. All of that has already been done. Releasing the set would only *recoup* those costs to start with.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:20:54 AM
In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

I guarantee you nobody at BRI or Capitol expected that last-second EP to sell well. That EP was clearly a stopgap just to cover a few tracks because no boxed set was released before the end of 2019.

"Feel Flows" delays have nothing to do with that EP. Nobody is saying not to release "Feel Flows" because not enough people paid to digitally download "Over the Waves" last year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 16, 2020, 08:22:48 AM
That's fair, although I thought I had read the FF project was launched late last year. The industry had not admitted digital defeat yet at that point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 16, 2020, 08:31:34 AM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

No, Steve, I didn't miss any point. Speaking of points, please point me to where exactly Guitarfool said that he downloaded the tracks illegally. In fact, I'll even link the thread to where this exchange took place for you to easily look for it:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26268.msg644931.html#msg644931 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26268.msg644931.html#msg644931)

Guitarfool said that he got them for free online. He never said he illegally downloaded them. Now, please read the post written directly after Boyd's comment where Guitarfool explains that he listened to music on YouTube.

Quote
When the tracks are on the Beach Boys official YouTube channel, how is it appalling to listen there?

What's appalling is to see a person who exhibited bad behavior, in some cases the words and comments bordering on slanderous and extending from trashing other fans to gossiping about and slandering band members and families, getting acknowledged. If someone insults, lies about, or in any other way wrongs people I consider friends, they're off the radar. And I don't support their future endeavors where their name is attached.

Sorry if that's offensive, but maybe a lot of people still don't know what went on and how dirty it got. Maybe I'm old fashioned but words matter and actions have consequences. In this case, that credit put a stain on an otherwise terrific project.

Jon Stebbins came here and posted that "the label wants it" - meaning there isn't any worry from the label's standpoint that this set won't make money due to some supposed lack of financial support from the fanbase. So why on earth is a post from 2018 about Guitarfool listening to tracks on YouTube at all relevant in this thread? Oh its not, it's just another way for the EH crew to take potshots at a moderator that lives rent-free in their minds for whatever reason.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:32:01 AM
In response to Steve Mayo:  ...and because 1969: I'm Going Your Way was released just as digital sales collapsed at the end of 2019, I'll bet it didn't sell very well.

In response to Hey Jude: Apologies if I missed an insider making this claim. I find it hard to believe that economics don't play into this (look at the way Andrew Sandoval talks about the struggle to get out any expanded Monkee releases), but I stand corrected if Alan or Mark have stated otherwise.

I'm not sure why there are fans stuck on only listening to Alan Boyd or Mark Linett. Of course they know what the deal is. But they aren't the only two people who do. It's like some fans haven't read any BB liner notes since 2000.

I'm telling you, the boxed set was greenlit and 100% completed, and only *then* was backburnered. *That* was *not* due to economics. At all. I've tried to say as much as I can in this thread. I've been on this board for 15 years, have been posting on BB boards for 25 years. I don't post these types of absolutes when I don't know.

In this particular case, I do know what's going on, and it has zero to do with fear/questioning potential sales numbers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 16, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

Edit: They sent me to Alan and Mark. I just looked it up. I mean, c'mon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:48:30 AM
Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

I'm not offended. None of that matters. All I'm telling you is that you can KEEP lobbying for this set because one particular thing you seem weirdly hung up on (the dwindling economic prospects of the record industry) is NOT at play when it comes to "Feel Flows." Why in the world would this small piece of information require extra credentials and vetting?

If you don't believe anything anybody says unless their name is Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (you seem to not mention Howie Edelson for some reason even though he's posted about working on the set multiple times), then have at it I guess.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on September 16, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Has anything changed in the past few months be it positive or negative about the release of the box set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
That's fair, although I thought I had read the FF project was launched late last year. The industry had not admitted digital defeat yet at that point.

You're applying record industry logic to this "Feel Flows" situation, and what's going on behind the scenes has *zero* to do with music industry trends and economic indicators. It's not a record industry issue or a Capitol/UMe issue. It's a BRI/band issue. BRI has a whole other layer of politics that operate completely separately from what goes on in the record industry.

The Beach Boys have always been happy to ignore both positive and negative trends/indicators in the record industry...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 08:56:24 AM
Has anything changed in the past few months be it positive or negative about the release of the box set?

We're still pushing for it. That's all I can say/add at this particular moment.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on September 16, 2020, 09:02:11 AM
Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

I'm not offended. None of that matters. All I'm telling you is that you can KEEP lobbying for this set because one particular thing you seem weirdly hung up on (the dwindling economic prospects of the record industry) is NOT at play when it comes to "Feel Flows." Why in the world would this small piece of information require extra credentials and vetting?

If you don't believe anything anybody says unless their name is Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (you seem to not mention Howie Edelson for some reason even though he's posted about working on the set multiple times), then have at it I guess.


OK Howie. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on September 16, 2020, 09:15:10 AM
The way people keeps looking at each others forums shows that everyone might as well still be on the same one. You guys love each other really  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2020, 10:06:10 AM
Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

I'm not offended. None of that matters. All I'm telling you is that you can KEEP lobbying for this set because one particular thing you seem weirdly hung up on (the dwindling economic prospects of the record industry) is NOT at play when it comes to "Feel Flows." Why in the world would this small piece of information require extra credentials and vetting?

If you don't believe anything anybody says unless their name is Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (you seem to not mention Howie Edelson for some reason even though he's posted about working on the set multiple times), then have at it I guess.


OK Howie. 

What a nice fellow. Thanks for adding to the conversation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 10:07:30 AM
It’s about as likely to come as the boxed set does right now. Or for me to break the Billboard charts

Right? He's so quick to throw shade at Guitarfool (about listening to YouTube tracks? LOL) but when asked a straightforward question about a major incident that happened to the fandom he's nowhere to be found. I mean, it's not surprising, I just love seeing the hypocrisy.

Seriously, John, ESQ, and the legendary "historian" can keep degrading the petition, but meanwhile, we're not not the one's who will look back on this time thinking "I did all I could to get this set out, I bitched about entitlement for two months!", no, we'll be ones who actually tried to do something and, no matter what happens, be happy that we did what we could. I mean, we're not Mike's lapdogs, so I get it, but anyone with an ounce of self respect could understand our position.

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.

None of that has anything to do with "Feel Flows." The delays have nothing to do with fear of low sales or otherwise questioning the economics of releasing the set. The set is NOT in jeopardy because anybody thinks not enough people bought previous sets.

I guess you can start another thread if you want to litigate one person's buying habits from multiple years ago. But on the topic of "Feel Flows", the delays have ZERO to do with marketability/economics/sales projections type of issues. The delays have ZERO to do with what anybody at BRI or Capitol think about the buying vs. streaming habits of potential customers. The delays certainly have ZERO to do with what *one* person said about streaming/downloading a set multiple years ago.

Exactly.

I’m going to go out and say what I’ve been thinking for a while now. Every  time I see a post ignoring Howie’s post about what’s going on, and instead saying it might be due to something else, I start to wonder if there’s an ulterior motive behind it.
Steve, you know damn well this boxed set is not held up due to what GF posted a few years ago. That is honestly one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Brian and Melinda sent me to Alan last year when I was doing my Murry research. I trust Alan. He has access to the database and the tapes. I was not trying to offend you, but your username does not indicate who you are. How am I supposed to know if you know what you are talking about in this instance.

I'm not offended. None of that matters. All I'm telling you is that you can KEEP lobbying for this set because one particular thing you seem weirdly hung up on (the dwindling economic prospects of the record industry) is NOT at play when it comes to "Feel Flows." Why in the world would this small piece of information require extra credentials and vetting?

If you don't believe anything anybody says unless their name is Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (you seem to not mention Howie Edelson for some reason even though he's posted about working on the set multiple times), then have at it I guess.


OK Howie. 


Why the hell did you post that?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 10:17:42 AM
This is a weird time in Beach Boys history. We’ve had someone accused of being Melinda, someone accused of being Howie...f*** it. Might as well tell the truth. Sigh...truth is...I’m the ghost of Murry F*cking  Wilson, and some of you are pissing me off. Booooooooo


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 16, 2020, 10:25:02 AM
I’m actually Rocky Pamplin.

Loosers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 16, 2020, 10:27:13 AM
This is a weird time in Beach Boys history. We’ve had someone accused of being Melinda, someone accused of being Howie...f*** it. Might as well tell the truth. Sigh...truth is...I’m the ghost of Murry F*cking  Wilson, and some of you are pissing me off. Booooooooo
Okay Murry W.! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 10:31:58 AM
I’m actually Rocky Pamplin.

Loosers.

How DARE you hurt my boys? I’m gonna Two-Step Side-Step my way over there and kick your ass, if you don’t surge on out of here! Booooooooo 🤣


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on September 16, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272

I’d think ESQ posting on their Facebook page would mobilize more fans (much larger following there), but suppose we should take what we can get!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272

I’d think ESQ posting on their Facebook page would mobilize more fans (much larger following there), but suppose we should take what we can get!

Yeah, right now any little bit helps


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 16, 2020, 01:32:46 PM
Everyone with a Facebook page should link ESQ's tweet there, and everyone with a Twitter account should retweet it ASAP. The more it proliferates, the more the word will "get around."

Kudos to ESQ for un-embedding themselves enough to look at the big picture, which is to get the group the acclaim it deserves, no matter what foibles they may have had (or, for that matter, might still have). Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, and Bruce deserve to bask in the glory of their incredible efforts during this time frame, and FEEL FLOWS is the best way to make sure that as many people understand and appreciate their prodigiously brilliant output during those frenetic times.

Keep at it folks--the tide will turn.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 16, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
I still think there could be 87 previously unreleased tracks.

Is it possible for at least part of the track listing to be revealed, after all, I think it would build momentum and for God's sake - the Internet knows this thing exists - and once the Internet knows something it's real.

In fact, any snippet of new info could get some more traction for this issue.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 16, 2020, 04:41:52 PM
With all this talk about Sunflower and Surf’s Up, are we forgetting that the set would also include sessions from like half of So Tough, along with “Break Away”-era, and live tracks -potentially even stuff like BW at the Whisky on the Rocksichord? And Dennis’ unfinished solo record?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 05:00:02 PM
Actually...I did forget! Wow...yeah now I *really* am I intrigued by what’s on there


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 16, 2020, 05:08:29 PM
With all this talk about Sunflower and Surf’s Up, are we forgetting that the set would also include sessions from like half of So Tough, along with “Break Away”-era, and live tracks -potentially even stuff like BW at the Whisky on the Rocksichord? And Dennis’ unfinished solo record?

Totally. Plus Celebrate the News, and a bunch more. I think our eyes are gonna pop out of our sockets when we see the tracklisting.

All the more reason that it's a crime against music history and against all that's decent in the world of this band for somebody to be preventing this music from being heard, enjoyed, purchased, etc. Blows my mind.
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
With all this talk about Sunflower and Surf’s Up, are we forgetting that the set would also include sessions from like half of So Tough, along with “Break Away”-era, and live tracks -potentially even stuff like BW at the Whisky on the Rocksichord? And Dennis’ unfinished solo record?

Totally. Plus Celebrate the News, and a bunch more. I think our eyes are gonna pop out of our sockets when we see the tracklisting.

All the more reason that it's a crime against music history and against all that's decent in the world of this band for somebody to be preventing this music from being heard, enjoyed, purchased, etc. Blows my mind.
 

Agreed. It’s also a crime towards the band itself


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 16, 2020, 05:20:43 PM
With all this talk about Sunflower and Surf’s Up, are we forgetting that the set would also include sessions from like half of So Tough, along with “Break Away”-era, and live tracks -potentially even stuff like BW at the Whisky on the Rocksichord? And Dennis’ unfinished solo record?

Totally. Plus Celebrate the News, and a bunch more. I think our eyes are gonna pop out of our sockets when we see the tracklisting.

All the more reason that it's a crime against music history and against all that's decent in the world of this band for somebody to be preventing this music from being heard, enjoyed, purchased, etc. Blows my mind.
 

Agreed. It’s also a crime towards the band itself

And interest in this set will only help stoke interest in the eventual release of the original version of Big Sur (still cannot believe that's not been released) which most BBs fans agree is one of Mike's best tracks that he wrote on his own. This paves the way for that. For praise for Mike and for every member of this band.

So, yeah... (Carl & The Passions So Yeah...) what on earth is the holdup? We know this holdup cannot be something based on logic. It's probably based on some emotional/grudge BS or out of the box being used as a pawn for something else. I cannot fathom these are non-factors. Life is way too short for this crap to be taking up space in anybody's head within the group, let alone in the head of any regularly meditating member who prides themselves on being spiritual. Come the f*ck on. Being vengeful does not help lengthen anybody's life spans or bring anything good into this world.

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 16, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
I don't see how that could offend anyone.

I'm just a TMer for the last 30 odd years, is all.

 :)   ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 18thofMay on September 16, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
I really need to get back on here more often.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 16, 2020, 05:51:47 PM
I don't see how that could offend anyone.

I'm just a TMer for the last 30 odd years, is all.

 :)   ;D

I think that meditation is a very good thing. I would tend to imagine the majority of folks who are very heavily into the practice of meditation are probably generally not the type of folks who are actively vengeful or lawsuit-happy, which is fortunate. The world needs much, much less of that stuff.

What this world needs is peace and love and Beach Boys music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 16, 2020, 06:29:24 PM
We're in agreement -

I did add a smiley just to show I'm not actually offended by it.

Reality is, anyone who has been around this world close to 80 years should have enough experience of life to just let some things go. My opinion only.

And I can't truly say I'm deeply into meditation these days, at least not TM. I think I did what I did for many years, and now I'm enjoying the benefits of it, to some extent.

I have always found it hard to reconcile Mike's meditation with his actions and attitude. All I can say is, I'd confidently bet that we don't use the same mantra!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on September 16, 2020, 06:36:49 PM

ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272


From the new Fall 2020 issue of ESQ: “There are several big announcements in The Beach Boys world coming soon.”



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 16, 2020, 06:46:52 PM

ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272


From the new Fall 2020 issue of ESQ: “There are several big announcements in The Beach Boys world coming soon.”



"Several"

We shall see

They can't even get a box set out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 16, 2020, 06:48:20 PM

ESQ just tweeted about the box set, maybe that means it is moving forward?

https://twitter.com/ESQmagEditor/status/1306053498719670272


From the new Fall 2020 issue of ESQ: “There are several big announcements in The Beach Boys world coming soon.”

I posted earlier that you posted that on the EH forum but it got completely buried. Thanks for posting that in the first place!

I'm really hoping "coming soon" means sooner rather than later (like the last tease). This fanbase needs some good news right about now.

Also I want to thank ESQ again for posting something about Feel Flows. Really means a lot that we're getting more support for this cause.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 16, 2020, 07:28:10 PM

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.


In advance of what I'm going to reply to Steve so the truth actually gets told, I'm not doing this to derail or distract from the box set discussions. But when someone posts what are either outright lies or distortions against me, I get a chance to reply. So here it is.

Getting this out of the way first, Steve, I did in fact address this the day it all happened and posted a reply publicly. If anyone reached out to me privately on this issue I also discussed it with them off the board. Maybe you missed this or conveniently ignored it, but here is that exact reply with the date and link. After writing that, I said my peace and apologized. Until you and manning carried over to this forum this week, some two years after it happened and in Manning's case four years after he last posted here, my words have been on this forum for anyone to read.

But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

I appreciate the hard work, Alan, both you and Mark have been a Godsend to the fans and your persistence in getting this material out and love for the material itself...we're blessed to have you where you are, doing what you do! I'd never, ever suggest anything less.

I understand where it would hurt, but I would ask in return that you also understand how bad things were on a personal level between Doe and people I call my friends (and me, too), to where they were being lied about and trashed by a guy using his status as a "historian" to behave that way. And that hurt them, and me too to see what was going on behind the shroud of "insider" Beach Boys circles. There are lines one simply does not cross on basic human decency levels, and in some of these cases, lines were crossed which to this day there have been no apologies or even admissions that things should not have been said or done.

So I'll say again, I'm not advocating a boycott, I'm not saying don't buy this, but when I saw that credit it did put a dark cloud over it *for me* personally. I would think if the credit was for research, Ian Rusten among a few others would have deserved a credit too considering the sheer volume of research he's added through the years, especially to the site hosted by Doe.

But again, that's just me. If my wording on the "free" point was confusing, as I think it was, I'm sorry for that. If it felt like I was calling for a boycott, I absolutely was not. But just the same, seeing those credits did put a damper on the whole thing for me, and I had to be honest when I said that earlier, but perhaps in not the right choice of words. I want as many people as possible to hear this amazing music, I'd never suggest otherwise. But for me, the credits honestly did have an effect on my view of it and I wish that were not the case - My own hang-up.

Steve wrote: " He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet."

Totally false statement, Steve. I never said such a thing. I also never downloaded the set illegally on the internet. Don't charge me with things I didn't do, or tell people I said something I never said. The proof is in my archived posts. Perhaps you should check your facts before making accusations like this.

Steve wrote: "You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since."

Bullshit, Steve. Again I never said I would download this set illegally, and I never did. Again as you can see in my posts, the set was posted on the official Beach Boys YouTube channel when it first came out, and I listened there. Not that it's any of your business, but I also paid for the set later through Amazon Music. So again, get your facts straight before lying about me and what I said or did.

The issue of this having anything to do with the Feel Flows box set has already been addressed by multiple people here. It is ridiculous, and as you've already been told by someone who actually knows what's going on, it has nothing to do with the current issues surrounding Feel Flows.

Steve wrote: "If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling."

Ok Steve, let's run your example another way. Let's say you had someone doing work for any company who had a decade-plus history of spreading lies and gossip about people in that company. Let's say some of those lies and gossip got revealed one day. Let's go even further and say the lies and gossip being spread by that person was about the spouse and family of one of that company's board members, not just a board member but one of the founders of that company.

Steve, how long do you think THAT person would last at the company? Do you think they'd be asked to do any more work for that company? Do you think they'd be invited to the company Christmas party and get thanked in the program?

How long do you think it would take before that person was out on their ass in the street once years of their lies and gossip about a founder and board member's wife came to light?

Well, you'll have to plug in the names in that example. It's funny how "appalling" you claim my comments were yet you seem to have no problem at all sitting silent through years of the other example which actually happened. Hint: The company name was BRI and the band's name was the Beach Boys. Fill in the rest...and next time try not to project dirty laundry that goes beyond anything you've tried to pin on me onto another example.

Appalling is g*ddamned right. Years of mocking and bashing a founding Beach Boys' wife...I guess in the book of Steve, that's not near as appalling as listening to tracks on YouTube. For fucks sake, take a dose of reality and perspective next time.

Steve wrote: "Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts."

See my quote above from 2018.

Steve wrote: "That was what john was referring to."

I guess you're speaking for John Manning since he hasn't bothered to come back to respond or reply to questions asked of him two days ago? Or is this part of the email you sent him? Well, if you email him again, you can pass on the message that a few questions were asked of him, in case he missed them. Or maybe his first and only visit in four years was just to do a drive-by and try to take some shots at me. Anyway, if you are speaking for him now, pass it on to him if you would.


One last thing. Steve, you may have issues with me and that's perfectly fine. You can address them with me any time. But don't post outright lies and other bits of info that are false, especially when the exact words from years past are archived on this board and available for anyone to read. And don't try to place the blame for a box set not coming out on me when it's not only ridiculous, but you don't have a clue on the reasons why. It makes you look foolish (you can pass that on to Manning as well), especially in this case when what you posted doesn't match at all what was said or done. Oh, and this whole thing about bootlegs and illegal downloads and whatnot...I did get the message you sent me last summer offering me some unreleased Beach Boys material. I ignored it and never replied, but I'll make that right and do so now:

No thanks.

 





 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 08:10:58 PM
We're in agreement -

I did add a smiley just to show I'm not actually offended by it.

Reality is, anyone who has been around this world close to 80 years should have enough experience of life to just let some things go. My opinion only.

And I can't truly say I'm deeply into meditation these days, at least not TM. I think I did what I did for many years, and now I'm enjoying the benefits of it, to some extent.

I have always found it hard to reconcile Mike's meditation with his actions and attitude. All I can say is, I'd confidently bet that we don't use the same mantra!

Mike’s mantra, according to someone who should know, is “me me me” 😏


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 16, 2020, 08:49:55 PM

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.


In advance of what I'm going to reply to Steve so the truth actually gets told, I'm not doing this to derail or distract from the box set discussions. But when someone posts what are either outright lies or distortions against me, I get a chance to reply. So here it is.

Getting this out of the way first, Steve, I did in fact address this the day it all happened and posted a reply publicly. If anyone reached out to me privately on this issue I also discussed it with them off the board. Maybe you missed this or conveniently ignored it, but here is that exact reply with the date and link. After writing that, I said my peace and apologized. Until you and manning carried over to this forum this week, some two years after it happened and in Manning's case four years after he last posted here, my words have been on this forum for anyone to read.

But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

I appreciate the hard work, Alan, both you and Mark have been a Godsend to the fans and your persistence in getting this material out and love for the material itself...we're blessed to have you where you are, doing what you do! I'd never, ever suggest anything less.

I understand where it would hurt, but I would ask in return that you also understand how bad things were on a personal level between Doe and people I call my friends (and me, too), to where they were being lied about and trashed by a guy using his status as a "historian" to behave that way. And that hurt them, and me too to see what was going on behind the shroud of "insider" Beach Boys circles. There are lines one simply does not cross on basic human decency levels, and in some of these cases, lines were crossed which to this day there have been no apologies or even admissions that things should not have been said or done.

So I'll say again, I'm not advocating a boycott, I'm not saying don't buy this, but when I saw that credit it did put a dark cloud over it *for me* personally. I would think if the credit was for research, Ian Rusten among a few others would have deserved a credit too considering the sheer volume of research he's added through the years, especially to the site hosted by Doe.

But again, that's just me. If my wording on the "free" point was confusing, as I think it was, I'm sorry for that. If it felt like I was calling for a boycott, I absolutely was not. But just the same, seeing those credits did put a damper on the whole thing for me, and I had to be honest when I said that earlier, but perhaps in not the right choice of words. I want as many people as possible to hear this amazing music, I'd never suggest otherwise. But for me, the credits honestly did have an effect on my view of it and I wish that were not the case - My own hang-up.

Steve wrote: " He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet."

Totally false statement, Steve. I never said such a thing. I also never downloaded the set illegally on the internet. Don't charge me with things I didn't do, or tell people I said something I never said. The proof is in my archived posts. Perhaps you should check your facts before making accusations like this.

Steve wrote: "You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since."

Bullshit, Steve. Again I never said I would download this set illegally, and I never did. Again as you can see in my posts, the set was posted on the official Beach Boys YouTube channel when it first came out, and I listened there. Not that it's any of your business, but I also paid for the set later through Amazon Music. So again, get your facts straight before lying about me and what I said or did.

The issue of this having anything to do with the Feel Flows box set has already been addressed by multiple people here. It is ridiculous, and as you've already been told by someone who actually knows what's going on, it has nothing to do with the current issues surrounding Feel Flows.

Steve wrote: "If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling."

Ok Steve, let's run your example another way. Let's say you had someone doing work for any company who had a decade-plus history of spreading lies and gossip about people in that company. Let's say some of those lies and gossip got revealed one day. Let's go even further and say the lies and gossip being spread by that person was about the spouse and family of one of that company's board members, not just a board member but one of the founders of that company.

Steve, how long do you think THAT person would last at the company? Do you think they'd be asked to do any more work for that company? Do you think they'd be invited to the company Christmas party and get thanked in the program?

How long do you think it would take before that person was out on their ass in the street once years of their lies and gossip about a founder and board member's wife came to light?

Well, you'll have to plug in the names in that example. It's funny how "appalling" you claim my comments were yet you seem to have no problem at all sitting silent through years of the other example which actually happened. Hint: The company name was BRI and the band's name was the Beach Boys. Fill in the rest...and next time try not to project dirty laundry that goes beyond anything you've tried to pin on me onto another example.

Appalling is g*ddamned right. Years of mocking and bashing a founding Beach Boys' wife...I guess in the book of Steve, that's not near as appalling as listening to tracks on YouTube. For fucks sake, take a dose of reality and perspective next time.

Steve wrote: "Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts."

See my quote above from 2018.

Steve wrote: "That was what john was referring to."

I guess you're speaking for John Manning since he hasn't bothered to come back to respond or reply to questions asked of him two days ago? Or is this part of the email you sent him? Well, if you email him again, you can pass on the message that a few questions were asked of him, in case he missed them. Or maybe his first and only visit in four years was just to do a drive-by and try to take some shots at me. Anyway, if you are speaking for him now, pass it on to him if you would.


One last thing. Steve, you may have issues with me and that's perfectly fine. You can address them with me any time. But don't post outright lies and other bits of info that are false, especially when the exact words from years past are archived on this board and available for anyone to read. And don't try to place the blame for a box set not coming out on me when it's not only ridiculous, but you don't have a clue on the reasons why. It makes you look foolish (you can pass that on to Manning as well), especially in this case when what you posted doesn't match at all what was said or done. Oh, and this whole thing about bootlegs and illegal downloads and whatnot...I did get the message you sent me last summer offering me some unreleased Beach Boys material. I ignored it and never replied, but I'll make that right and do so now:

No thanks.

 





 


Nothing else really to add, except to point out that artists do get played for YouTube streams. Not much, mind you, but they do get paid if played off the official channel


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 17, 2020, 06:50:25 AM
Yes, Mayo was laid on a bit too heavy, eh? Too much Mayo always makes my face break out...  :smokin

No one will boycott FEEL FLOWS if the liner notes contain a mention of Mr. Suppressive Personality. If one is really offended by his inclusion, just grab a Sharpie and render him invisible.

Let's keep our eye on the prize. Everyone here who is on social media should grab that ESQ tweet and send it out as far and wide ("deep and wide"?) as they can, to spread the word that a fabulous 5-CD set with immense historical significance is teetering on the brink of life or death and that all Beach Boys fans, whether casual or fanatically devoted, should make their voices heard to tip the decision in the right direction.

And yes, it's beyond time for someone to channel their inner Daniel Ellsberg and leak the track listing, already!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on September 17, 2020, 06:58:53 AM
Well, well, well, (half) sarcastically I feel like ESQ owes me an apology for being such jerks to me last week ::) That being said, I'm glad they finally decided to share something relating to this 'Feel Flows' set; it's interesting to me that when I corresponded with them they sounded awfully definitive that there was no reason I should expect them to enter the conversation. Whether it's a change of heart or something else I'm missing, it's a step in the right direction. Time to spread the word.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 17, 2020, 07:11:22 AM
Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 17, 2020, 08:03:08 AM
Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.

I don't understand why they don't take the Bob Dylan route and put up sampler albums (for big sets) on streaming and put the full sets on iTunes and Amazon for purchase. I guess they're assuming many people will pirate the music if they did it that way...but surely the amount of people who would pay $40+ for the full sets would outweigh the .003 cents they're making per play on Spotify (https://soundcharts.com/blog/music-streaming-rates-payouts). At least do that for the first year, and when most people have bought the set then place it up on streaming services.

And yeah, the attack on Guitarfool was weird but not surprising. Again, it's the reason why many of us will never sign up on that forum. While they put on a good guise of positivity, behind the veil is what you saw in the last 4 pages of this thread. They made the same attack against him in mid-August on their own forum, and for whatever reason they decided to team up and try the disinformation campaign again one month later on this forum. No amount of logic or proof can seem to persuade them that Guitarfool isn't The Beach Boys version of Kim Dot Com hellbent on singlehandedly destroying the profit-making capabilities of The Beach Boys archival releases. And I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but as long as these individuals keep trying (and failing) to revive the damn horse people will have to keep defending their (and others) integrity.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 17, 2020, 08:09:47 AM
Plus rab, you get personal threats in the PM system if they don’t like you there! :police:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 17, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
Obviously no one here has to justify their choices when it comes to how they choose to enjoy Beach Boys product (as long as its legal), particularly as we have all indeed spent plenty of money over the years on the band. However, it is quite probable that buying rather than streaming these copyright extension sets is the best way to "support" their continuation, though the choice made by one person will make close to no difference.

It is also wrong and unfair for GF's actions to be misrepresented. However it is to me a little petty to proudly state that you haven't bought a set just because a particular name is included somewhere in the credits.

As it happens I don't generally don't buy digital music and instead choose to stream if that is the only option (the idea of having gigabyte upon gigabyte of digital music is not appealing to me...I have also almost never illegally downloaded music throughout my life). I am neither proud nor ashamed of that. My preference is for physical product, and I will be at the front of the queue for any physical release, e.g. 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow.

If these copyright extension sets appeared to be under serious threat due to the number of digital sales, I would happily buy them to ensure they get the best possible support from the fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 17, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
Obviously no one here has to justify their choices when it comes to how they choose to enjoy Beach Boys product (as long as its legal), particularly as we have all indeed spent plenty of money over the years on the band. However, it is quite probable that buying rather than streaming these copyright extension sets is the best way to "support" their continuation, though the choice made by one person will make close to no difference.

It is also wrong and unfair for GF's actions to be misrepresented. However it is to me a little petty to proudly state that you haven't bought a set just because a particular name is included somewhere in the credits.

As it happens I don't generally don't buy digital music and instead choose to stream if that is the only option (the idea of having gigabyte upon gigabyte of digital music is not appealing to me...I have also almost never illegally downloaded music throughout my life). I am neither proud nor ashamed of that. My preference is for physical product, and I will be at the front of the queue for any physical release, e.g. 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow.

If these copyright extension sets appeared to be under serious threat due to the number of digital sales, I would happily buy them to ensure they get the best possible support from the fans.

Which is why, to me, talking about the digital sets is a red herring. This is hardcore, straight-up, legacy time. A big, high-quality set of some of a classic band's least-known but best music. A no-brainer, and I wish they did it on vinyl too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 17, 2020, 11:28:50 AM
Quote
However it is to me a little petty to proudly state that you haven't bought a set just because a particular name is included somewhere in the credits.

Let’s turn the tables: if some poster here spread a bunch of garbage about Jacquelyne I would hope people wouldn’t be too happy if that person’s name were included in an official release. Considering how much Melinda has been dragged through the mud the last decade+ I would hope that people would be a bit more understanding of why Guitarfool had the reaction that he did...again I say, if the tables were turned I doubt the reaction from a certain crew would be much different...and I wouldn’t blame them.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 12:00:03 PM
Agreed


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 17, 2020, 01:04:04 PM
It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 17, 2020, 01:12:08 PM
Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 17, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
Great to hear from Howie again.
Fingers still crossed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 01:29:06 PM
Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





Thank you for the update...going to put this in my signature to stop any kind of misunderstanding or certain people’s obstinance


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 17, 2020, 01:38:58 PM
Sincere thanks for the update, Howie.

This music means a heck of a lot to a lot of people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 17, 2020, 01:40:32 PM
Obviously no one here has to justify their choices when it comes to how they choose to enjoy Beach Boys product (as long as its legal), particularly as we have all indeed spent plenty of money over the years on the band. However, it is quite probable that buying rather than streaming these copyright extension sets is the best way to "support" their continuation, though the choice made by one person will make close to no difference.

It is also wrong and unfair for GF's actions to be misrepresented. However it is to me a little petty to proudly state that you haven't bought a set just because a particular name is included somewhere in the credits.

As it happens I don't generally don't buy digital music and instead choose to stream if that is the only option (the idea of having gigabyte upon gigabyte of digital music is not appealing to me...I have also almost never illegally downloaded music throughout my life). I am neither proud nor ashamed of that. My preference is for physical product, and I will be at the front of the queue for any physical release, e.g. 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow.

If these copyright extension sets appeared to be under serious threat due to the number of digital sales, I would happily buy them to ensure they get the best possible support from the fans.

Which is why, to me, talking about the digital sets is a red herring. This is hardcore, straight-up, legacy time. A big, high-quality set of some of a classic band's least-known but best music. A no-brainer, and I wish they did it on vinyl too.

And this is one of many disconnects happening where a few people have tried to burst into the thread with their "industry" expertise to "explain" to us the obvious trends in physical vs. digital download vs. streaming.

I think a few people are under the false impression that advocating for a physical boxed set is somehow being ignorant to the realities of the music industry.

Trust me, Boyd/Linett/Edelson and Capitol/UMe understand the marketability of physical vs. digital, etc.

"Feel Flows" would be (and hopefully WILL be) something akin to the Beatles boxed sets released over the last three years. No, of course BB set won't sell like a Beatles set.

But we're lucky that "Feel Flows" was pitched not simply as "well, put it out physically too because some old timer BB fans don't like streaming".

"Feel Flows" is about legacy, about giving THE BAND (and also the fans) a lavish, respectable presentation.

Digital downloads/streaming are a NON ISSUE in this realm, because OF COURSE any BB release, as past archival releases have been, will also be available to buy digitally in Apple, Amazon, etc. (often if not usually including download high-rez options), and will also be streaming on Spotify/YouTube/Pandora, etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 01:42:13 PM
Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.

Sorry but anyone who thinks streaming revenue will support future archive releases is delusional.

Not saying anyone is required to buy them or support them - stream away if you want - but presenting streaming as “supporting” the releases is a fallacy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on September 17, 2020, 02:11:32 PM
Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.

Also chiming in with a thanks for dropping by. Your phrasing gives me some hope that, if still stuck, it’s not completely off the cards yet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 17, 2020, 02:16:56 PM
Meanwhile, yet another big name artist gets their sh*t together and releases something amazing in the way of a career spanning box set that will be truly special.

I'm looking at you Elton John!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9450922/elton-john-jewel-box-set-rarities-b-sides-deep-cuts


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 17, 2020, 02:23:00 PM
Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.

Sorry but anyone who thinks streaming revenue will support future archive releases is delusional.

Not saying anyone is required to buy them or support them - stream away if you want - but presenting streaming as “supporting” the releases is a fallacy.

I think Wirestone is simply pointing out that the band/Capitol choose to put all of their material on streaming platforms. He's saying they're not putting it there for us NOT to listen to it.

Of course streaming has greatly devalued (both figuratively and literally) music, and of course artists make next to nothing on it, and of course it de-incentivizes people to buy it.

But none of this has anything to do with "Feel Flows" (other than, as I mentioned before, that a stopgap digital release at the end of this year could kill any eventual full release of "Feel Flows").

"Feel Flows" was devised and made in the context of 2020 music industry conditions, with full knowledge of the realities of the industry.

The hold-up is unrelated to any of these industry economics issues.

Sure, now and any time is always good to mention that yes, BUYING this set will help immensely more than not.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 17, 2020, 02:36:16 PM
It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.

Thanks so much for the update, Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 17, 2020, 02:49:40 PM
Meanwhile, yet another big name artist gets their sh*t together and releases something amazing in the way of a career spanning box set that will be truly special.

I'm looking at you Elton John!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9450922/elton-john-jewel-box-set-rarities-b-sides-deep-cuts

After reading that article about the Elton John box, one would think that Mike would feel a competitive spirit in order to show that his band has the goods too.

But then reading these line in the article: "The 148-song set, personally curated by the singer, will chronicle his early stages collaborating with lyricist Bernie Taupin" and "I find it hard to comprehend just how prolific Bernie and I were during the early days," John says in a statement." made me wonder if Mike is possibly holding the box hostage out of trying to coerce "Cousin Brian" to collaborate on new material, to continue Mike's mission to be known as the Bernie Taupin to Brian's Elton John for all times, for that to be a regular thing that is widely thought.  That would go in line with Mike's recent vault material deflection coupled with his hinting at something new down the road.

Mike is completely obsessed with trying to drill in the idea that HE is Brian's primary writing partner, that this is something he is owed. And to find ways to ensure that his name is always spoken about, hand in hand, in the news whenever Brian's music is discussed (the way Bernie is often mentioned in articles about Elton's music). I think Mike was and remains very, very broken and bitter by the way the 2012 album and reunion didn't pan out in the way he wanted it to (namely, for the album/reunion to be the triumphant return of WILSON/LOVE-penned songs, which would finally show the world how much Brian NEEDS Mike.)

I could see how if this scenario were the case here, that things could come to an immovable impasse. I don't think Brian particularly wants to work with Mike again. And I don't know how a situation like that - if true - could be "negotiated" unless the demand was dropped, if Mike reluctantly sees it as an endeavor that won't ever happen, yet realizes correctly that greenlighting the box will still bring him money and plenty of praise.

Minus touring, Mike has way too much time on his hands for scheming now, and I think this limbo state of the box is the result, in my estimation. I think whatever the holdup, it's born out of some form of ridiculous desperation and is due to someone who wants to "get something out of" Feel Flows indirectly, other than directly getting money/praise from the actual release itself. Gross.

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think this scenario is out of character for Mike. Does anyone? That way he also gets to play the role of "good guy" who just "innocently wants to write with his dear cousin",  potential new music he has spun to BRI as profit-generating and critical-praise-generating, and he gets to gaslight Brian and those around Brian as being the bad guys for not wanting to deal with him again, which in reality IMHO is the healthiest thing Brian could do. For the group-centric Sunflower era reiussue to be a gateway to the "group-centric (as defined by Mike)" current music. I could see how maybe, just maybe, that specific spin could get backers/support by others behind the scenes, if it indeed takes more than just Mike's whims to greenlight/block this set.

In theory, I could see even Carl's estate agreeing to a scenario like this, if it were thought that this could somehow help repair broken family relationships.  Obviously, most anybody with a heart would in theory want Brian and Mike's relationship to be mended, and for them to have a problem-free relationship on purely a personal level, yet if this scheme is what's happening, I personally think using anything at all - let alone precious amazing music from 50 years ago - as a bargaining chip is a low move. As a bonus, if Mike has concocted such as scheme, he'd also get to piss off his apparent mortal enemy, Melinda Wilson, because I'm sure she is protective of Brian and isn't keen on that songwriting reunion either, so I'm sure Mike would be extraordinarily happy to specifically see her buckle to his whims - that control over Melinda might bring good ol' Mike more joy than the act of actually writing with Brian. Because that's what things are always about with Mike - control.

I think it's entirely possible. I'm certainly not stating anything as fact because hell if I know, but I could see it happening. And if it seems fans have too many wild schemes they are guessing, it's only because of what the history of this band and the antics of one member in particular have shown us could be plausible behavior. Just use logic: does Mike strike ANYONE as a guy who - if he thinks he could get something out of it - would not try to find a way to extract a desired outcome out of a situation by whatever means necessary? If he is doing the holding up, it surely must be based on a reason that's a big deal to him. This scenario fits the bill and checks the boxes, IMHO. Getting more praise and legacy adulation (directed at him and his proper place in the band's history as he sees it via the big return of WILSON/LOVE), pissing off Melinda Wilson, and generating even more money from some sort of reunion album or tour. Mike knows he'll never ever get these things without something to hold over everyone's head, and maybe he thinks he's found it with FF.  :-\  

Oof. I'm hoping against hope that the problems, whatever they are, get resolved. One thing is for sure, control freak narcissists have been an absolute f*cking plague on this great band for 60 years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on September 17, 2020, 02:50:21 PM
Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.
Also chiming in with a thanks for dropping by. Your phrasing gives me some hope that, if still stuck, it’s not completely off the cards yet.
Yes. "If and when" lightens the mood a bit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 17, 2020, 02:57:56 PM
Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.
Also chiming in with a thanks for dropping by. Your phrasing gives me some hope that, if still stuck, it’s not completely off the cards yet.
Yes. "If and when" lightens the mood a bit.

The “if” certainly isn’t so uplifting, but I see your point about the “and when”. I am hopeful that we’ll end up with this set. I really can’t wait to hear all the beautiful pieces on it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 17, 2020, 03:23:27 PM
It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

I only started commenting on the topic once several others had already resurrected it. I just wanted to offer an opinion as someone who isn't involved in the personal disputes; note I also said it was wrong for GF's actions to be misrepresented. I will also add that we could all be less petty about things.

I agree that we don't need to go on about it, and that it is not relevant to this project.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 03:56:50 PM
Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.

Sorry but anyone who thinks streaming revenue will support future archive releases is delusional.

Not saying anyone is required to buy them or support them - stream away if you want - but presenting streaming as “supporting” the releases is a fallacy.

I think Wirestone is simply pointing out that the band/Capitol choose to put all of their material on streaming platforms. He's saying they're not putting it there for us NOT to listen to it.

Of course streaming has greatly devalued (both figuratively and literally) music, and of course artists make next to nothing on it, and of course it de-incentivizes people to buy it.

But none of this has anything to do with "Feel Flows" (other than, as I mentioned before, that a stopgap digital release at the end of this year could kill any eventual full release of "Feel Flows").

"Feel Flows" was devised and made in the context of 2020 music industry conditions, with full knowledge of the realities of the industry.

The hold-up is unrelated to any of these industry economics issues.

Sure, now and any time is always good to mention that yes, BUYING this set will help immensely more than not.

I think it is related to Feel Flows - not the holdup, but the project.

I’m referring to the tangent convo surrounding Alan Boyd stopping by a couple years ago imploring the fans to support these archive projects to ensure they keep coming out. As we are now aware, they don’t have to release such deluxe sets.

Capitol of course decides to offer these releases on streaming services - including YouTube. And of course I have no issue with fans streaming them and not buying them - that’s the game, that’s all fine. Capitol and the group are offering these as legal, guilt free options.

Wirestone said “I pay for my streaming subscription and some amount of that goes to the band”. What I’m calling out is the implication that paying for a streaming service supports the projects, because that is a fallacy IMO.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 04:08:23 PM
It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

I only started commenting on the topic once several others had already resurrected it. I just wanted to offer an opinion as someone who isn't involved in the personal disputes; note I also said it was wrong for GF's actions to be misrepresented. I will also add that we could all be less petty about things.

I agree that we don't need to go on about it, and that it is not relevant to this project.
fair enough


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 04:32:57 PM
I’ve stated this before but I buy physical media AND stream; the actual cds get put away safely and I stream on YouTube or Spotify. I listen to the cds in the car. The artist may not get paid *much * for the streams (trust me, I know...that $0.03 ain’t sh*t) but at least it adds to the total.

I’m gonna use my band as an example for those confused how artist paid streaming works

If someone were to buy something from my site fear2stop.bandcamp.com I obviously get paid. If they just stream from that site though I get nothing. However, if someone bought something there and then heard it on Spotify or went to YouTube and streamed from my *official* site ( let’s say someone wanted to hear F2S’s licensed cover of Solar System  https://youtu.be/qcqjeR_pYzA) I get paid for both. If someone streamed from my personal YouTube channel, I get nothing. If the YouTube channel says “topic” ( like Beach Boys Topic, or Fear 2 Stop Topic, to list two examples)it’s the official page and the artist gets paid.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 17, 2020, 04:39:02 PM
Thanks Billy. I of course also stream the physical product that I do buy.

And very much enjoyable cover. Your sound is very much suited to songs from the Love You era.

Fingers crossed for Feel Flows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 17, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
I’ve stated this before but I buy physical media AND stream; the actual cds get put away safely and I stream on YouTube or Spotify. I listen to the cds in the car. The artist may not get paid *much * for the streams (trust me, I know...that $0.03 ain’t sh*t) but at least it adds to the total.

I’m gonna use my band as an example for those confused how artist paid streaming works

If someone were to buy something from my site fear2stop.bandcamp.com I obviously get paid. If they just stream from that site though I get nothing. However, if someone bought something there and then heard it on Spotify or went to YouTube and streamed from my *official* site ( let’s say someone wanted to hear F2S’s licensed cover of Solar System  https://youtu.be/qcqjeR_pYzA) I get paid for both. If someone streamed from my personal YouTube channel, I get nothing. If the YouTube channel says “topic” ( like Beach Boys Topic, or Fear 2 Stop Topic, to list two examples)it’s the official page and the artist gets paid.

Really dig the cover, Billy!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 06:25:13 PM
Thank you kindly...hopefully the shameless plug* brought some levity to the mix. Right now things are tense but at the end of the day, we’re all fans . I keep saying it, but the legacy of this great band is at stake; when Howie state’s that this could change the perception of the band, that’s *huge*. So on a personal level I want this set out for that very reason (along with the hard work put into it). That’s why I’m so passionate


*and for another cheap plug, in my sig is a link to a BW inspired Halloween song (went for a Passing By meets haunted house type bag)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 17, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
What has to be understood is that streaming revenue is fundamentally not a viable source of income for anyone but the very most popular artists in the world.


In USD:

Spotify pays artists $0.004 per play
YouTube music pays artists $0.00069 per play


So, let's say a Beach Boys archival set gets a million streams on Spotify. That would equal $4000 in streaming revenue.

Let's say the set also gets 1 million streams on YouTube - that would equal $690.

As a real example, the 'Wake the World' set collectively has about 920,000 streams to date on Spotify - so the figures would be a bit less than the above, and that's before tax, and before being split among all the various parties.

Needless to say, streaming revenue probably doesn't even cover the basic mixing and mastering costs involved with a project like this. Supposing they actually promote the Feel Flows set, you could hope for the streaming income to be somewhat more, but still not even close to approaching six digits.


All this is to say - consuming a release via streaming really doesn't amount to meaningfully supporting an artist. It's great for convenience - but it has to be coupled with some kind of physical purchase.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 17, 2020, 07:57:35 PM
Hey Tom. You seem to know the numbers. Any idea what sort of return a box set might pay to an artist? Rather than speculating on FF, how about PS and Smile, which did get released?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on September 17, 2020, 08:16:11 PM
Tom (or anyone), do we know how much Spotify, YouTube and Apple Music pay labels per play?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
What has to be understood is that streaming revenue is fundamentally not a viable source of income for anyone but the very most popular artists in the world.


In USD:

Spotify pays artists $0.004 per play
YouTube music pays artists $0.00069 per play


So, let's say a Beach Boys archival set gets a million streams on Spotify. That would equal $4000 in streaming revenue.

Let's say the set also gets 1 million streams on YouTube - that would equal $690.

As a real example, the 'Wake the World' set collectively has about 920,000 streams to date on Spotify - so the figures would be a bit less than the above, and that's before tax, and before being split among all the various parties.

Needless to say, streaming revenue probably doesn't even cover the basic mixing and mastering costs involved with a project like this. Supposing they actually promote the Feel Flows set, you could hope for the streaming income to be somewhat more, but still not even close to approaching six digits.


All this is to say - consuming a release via streaming really doesn't amount to meaningfully supporting an artist. It's great for convenience - but it has to be coupled with some kind of physical purchase.
Very true. I made 18 cents on YouTube last month . Yeesh.

But that’s why I always recommend people purchase and then stream


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 08:26:07 PM
Tom (or anyone), do we know how much Spotify, YouTube and Apple Music pay labels per play?

Per the web

Quote

Spotify pays whoever holds the rights to a song anywhere from $0.006 to $0.0084 per play. The rights “holder” can then split these earning between the record label, producers, artists, and songwriters, which means splitting pennies between many parties.

This is a pretty good resource

https://www.dittomusic.com/blog/how-much-do-music-streaming-services-pay-musicians

Now on Spotify’s own artist site they don’t say, and say it’s affected by “various factors”. I’d like to know how that works for an independent artist both on an indie label or on their own label. I’ve had months where I got paid more for less streams, for instance.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 17, 2020, 08:27:31 PM
The numbers re: cents per stream from major streaming services are more or less a matter of public record (Billy beat me to the punch). Re: physical releases and the inner workings there, only insiders could speculate.  

I would have to assume though that the cost of creating a physical product would not be a big concern for a major label like Capitol, who have their own manufacturing plants. It does therefore seem baffling that they chose not to have physical products for the 1968 sets. How little faith must they have had in those releases that they weren't even prepared to take a stab at making some profit out of the investment they'd already made - they chose instead to dump it online and hope to at least break even.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 17, 2020, 08:29:16 PM
Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Joel Goldenberg is actually a poster here. Hopefully it's just the start of publications talking about this. Thanks for posting, Cork! And thanks Joel for writing this up!
You're welcome!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 17, 2020, 08:33:33 PM
Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html
To fill you in, I write for the largest English weekly newspaper in the Canadian province of Quebec, which serves a large part of Montreal and its northern neighbor Laval. The article is online-only, but our print version, founded March 1, 1963, has 160,000 circulation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 17, 2020, 08:34:05 PM
Great work Joel!
Thanks! The word must be spread!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 17, 2020, 09:31:25 PM
If there is so little audience for this music as you all seem to imply, then Capitol shouldn’t waste time releasing it.

My god, you treat this band as if they’re struggling indie rockers instead of being well-paid stars for the last half-century.

I refuse to be guilted over something like this. I believe the band owns its masters at this point (at least for this era) and could release them whenever and however and for whatever sums they want. They choose, out of cowardice, to remain with a major label and make the galling compromises that entails. They choose to be paid less because it makes them feel important.

But the label, at least in this case, isn’t even standing in the way. It’s not concerned about streaming. It wants to release a lavish physical boxed set, of the sort that I and all of you would buy in a heartbeat.

How many of you bought the OCA double colored vinyl? Not too many, if the lack of discussion on this board is any indication. But I did.


Striking through this so 1.) we know it existed but 2.) that I was being unacceptably cranky. Wasn't the first time, won't be the last, but this is a special place and ya'll are special folks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 17, 2020, 09:39:22 PM
By no means am I saying the audience is small. I never suggested that - I'm saying the current streaming system is unjust to the point that even a release which receives almost a million streams on Spotify will only make about $4000 dollars. I.e. you essentially have to be getting tens if not hundreds of millions of streams to make real money on a digital only release.

My main point is that a physical release is therefore essential to make a decent profit, and the absence of a physical release would appear to indicate a complete lack of confidence in the material from the record label's end (referring to the 1968 sets here). Some have suggested they'd be okay with streaming only as a compromise - I'm merely suggesting it'd not only be a poor compromise for all involved, but also a nonsensical business choice.

Anyway, based on Howie's comments, it seems the label indeed wants this one to come out, physical set and all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 17, 2020, 10:20:16 PM
That’s how I took it too; showing that there’s no money in streaming only even when a large amount of people stream it. A physical release is necessary to maximize return on investment ; the audience is there regardless. I’d be happy with streaming only as a consumer. My own experience shows that as an artist there’s nowhere near enough money that there *should* be. Us artists are getting the shaft, but that’s a discussion for a different time.

If anything, the petition has showed the demand is there


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 10:36:11 PM
By no means am I saying the audience is small. I never suggested that - I'm saying the current streaming system is unjust to the point that even a release which receives almost a million streams on Spotify will only make about $4000 dollars. I.e. you essentially have to be getting tens if not hundreds of millions of streams to make real money on a digital only release.

My main point is that a physical release is therefore essential to make a decent profit, and the absence of a physical release would appear to indicate a complete lack of confidence in the material from the record label's end (referring to the 1968 sets here). Some have suggested they'd be okay with streaming only as a compromise - I'm merely suggesting it'd not only be a poor compromise for all involved, but also a nonsensical business choice.

Anyway, based on Howie's comments, it seems the label indeed wants this one to come out, physical set and all.

Let’s not conflate digital only releases with streaming.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 17, 2020, 10:39:49 PM
If there is so little audience for this music as you all seem to imply, then Capitol shouldn’t waste time releasing it.

My god, you treat this band as if they’re struggling indie rockers instead of being well-paid stars for the last half-century.

I refuse to be guilted over something like this. I believe the band owns its masters at this point (at least for this era) and could release them whenever and however and for whatever sums they want. They choose, out of cowardice, to remain with a major label and make the galling compromises that entails. They choose to be paid less because it makes them feel important.

But the label, at least in this case, isn’t even standing in the way. It’s not concerned about streaming. It wants to release a lavish physical boxed set, of the sort that I and all of you would buy in a heartbeat.

How many of you bought the OCA double colored vinyl? Not too many, if the lack of discussion on this board is any indication. But I did.
I take offense at that last comment. I would very much like to buy the OCA double vinyl, but at $30 for the set, it's a low priority compared to paying the rent, putting gas in my car so I can get to my part time job (my second part time job was killed by Covid 19), buying groceries.

I get the impression that most of the folks here are living very comfortably; laying down $30 for a piece of vinyl, $70 for a concert ticket, or $100 plus for a box set is no great problem for you.

Some of us live a different reality.

And that said, I would still much rather have a physical box set that simply a download/streaming option.
That's too much like the days when friends and I would trade cassettes. No packaging, no artwork, no information about the tracks, nothing.

When things get better - IF things get better - I will get the OCA vinyl. It's something I had hoped for for a very long time.

The last thing I'm gonna worry about is Capitol Records or the Beach Boys making a profit. Those guys have seen more money than I will ever see if I live 100 lifetimes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 10:39:50 PM
If there is so little audience for this music as you all seem to imply, then Capitol shouldn’t waste time releasing it.

My god, you treat this band as if they’re struggling indie rockers instead of being well-paid stars for the last half-century.

I refuse to be guilted over something like this. I believe the band owns its masters at this point (at least for this era) and could release them whenever and however and for whatever sums they want. They choose, out of cowardice, to remain with a major label and make the galling compromises that entails. They choose to be paid less because it makes them feel important.

But the label, at least in this case, isn’t even standing in the way. It’s not concerned about streaming. It wants to release a lavish physical boxed set, of the sort that I and all of you would buy in a heartbeat.

How many of you bought the OCA double colored vinyl? Not too many, if the lack of discussion on this board is any indication. But I did.

No idea what this post is supposed to be all about but ... streaming isn’t “supporting” the release. No one is saying anyone should feel guilty for streaming only. Maybe a person doesn’t have the bread, or they’re not all that interested in all of the material, or they just don’t care. Nothing wrong with that, who cares man.

It’s also not about lining rich rock star pockets with extra Ferrari $$$, or providing evidence that you’ve supported the group enough ‘cause you once bought an orange record. The tangent/subtopic is about Alan Boyd coming to the site to let us know that if the archive releases don’t get sufficient $$$/support, we might not keep getting them. Clearly, this does not seem to be the concern with Feel Flows. But it’s a relevant point - let’s say FF is released and sells a lot. Maybe we’ll get another lavish set. Let’s say more people choose to stream - even though it’s released physically ... we might not. Pretty simple.

Implying paying for a streaming service supports a release is the thing. It doesn’t.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 17, 2020, 10:56:27 PM
Let’s not conflate digital only releases with streaming.

That's true - digital purchase i.e. iTunes is great, but I suspect it's not an option favoured by many consumers nowadays considering the product is the exact same one that can be streamed for a much lower price point (or free in the case of YT music). There's very little incentive for the consumer, so I'd say the vast majority would still just stream it in that instance.

It's also the reason most smaller artists aren't bothering with CDs anymore - if it's free to stream anyway, then the only way to get people to pay a higher price point for something that's already freely available online is to have a 'deluxe' physical option i.e. vinyl with extra goodies. People don't go for the in between option


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 17, 2020, 11:11:40 PM
The tangent/subtopic is about Alan Boyd coming to the site to let us know that if the archive releases don’t get sufficient $$$/support, we might not keep getting them. Clearly, this does not seem to be the concern with Feel Flows. But it’s a relevant point - let’s say FF is released and sells a lot. Maybe we’ll get another lavish set. Let’s say more people choose to stream - even though it’s released physically ... we might not. Pretty simple.

Implying paying for a streaming service supports a release is the thing. It doesn’t.

Right on. One has to wonder if there's a theoretical way that we could go one step further than a petition and literally show our financial support for a physical set before the fact (kind of like crowdfunding). I follow plenty of independent artists who do stuff like this - they'll say 'We want to press 500 LPs, but we're only going to manufacture them if 500 people pre-order, and if we fail to meet the target everyone gets a refund'. Takes the risk out of the equation altogether and guarantees a profit. Of course, that sort of thing would have to be set up by the label itself so it won't happen - it's just a novel thought.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
Let’s not conflate digital only releases with streaming.

That's true - digital purchase i.e. iTunes is great, but I suspect it's not an option favoured by many consumers nowadays considering the product is the exact same one that can be streamed for a much lower price point (or free in the case of YT music). There's very little incentive for the consumer, so I'd say the vast majority would still just stream it in that instance.

It's also the reason most smaller artists aren't bothering with CDs anymore - if it's free to stream anyway, then the only way to get people to pay a higher price point for something that's already freely available online is to have a 'deluxe' physical option i.e. vinyl with extra goodies. People don't go for the in between option


Interesting point. I don’t really know the breakdown of demographics etc - just my own experience, selling and buying. As a consumer, I don’t buy digital anything and I don’t stream (unless you count want you might call “sampling” here and there via YouTube etc). In terms of selling music, CDs always sold more than digital download, streaming, vinyl, and cassette combined - even in recent years (I stopped selling CDs awhile back).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 17, 2020, 11:37:57 PM
The tangent/subtopic is about Alan Boyd coming to the site to let us know that if the archive releases don’t get sufficient $$$/support, we might not keep getting them. Clearly, this does not seem to be the concern with Feel Flows. But it’s a relevant point - let’s say FF is released and sells a lot. Maybe we’ll get another lavish set. Let’s say more people choose to stream - even though it’s released physically ... we might not. Pretty simple.

Implying paying for a streaming service supports a release is the thing. It doesn’t.

Right on. One has to wonder if there's a theoretical way that we could go one step further than a petition and literally show our financial support for a physical set before the fact (kind of like crowdfunding). I follow plenty of independent artists who do stuff like this - they'll say 'We want to press 500 LPs, but we're only going to manufacture them if 500 people pre-order, and if we fail to meet the target everyone gets a refund'. Takes the risk out of the equation altogether and guarantees a profit. Of course, that sort of thing would have to be set up by the label itself so it won't happen - it's just a novel thought.

Certainly Capitol has no problem putting up the dollars, and will surely earn a handsome profit for all - Sunflower and Surf’s Up are seriously acclaimed records and this era in the BB is ripe for the masses right now.. I bought a couple friends the twofer CD awhile back as a gift, and they were like, “wow I can’t believe this is the Beach Boys, how have we not heard this?!? It’s so good” and on and on. Think about artists like Rodriguez or Nick Drake - unknown in their time, famous many years later. Early ‘70s BB are very similar - just waiting in the wings to take off when the stars align.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on September 18, 2020, 07:03:27 AM
Tom (or anyone), do we know how much Spotify, YouTube and Apple Music pay labels per play?

Per the web

Quote

Spotify pays whoever holds the rights to a song anywhere from $0.006 to $0.0084 per play. The rights “holder” can then split these earning between the record label, producers, artists, and songwriters, which means splitting pennies between many parties.

This is a pretty good resource

https://www.dittomusic.com/blog/how-much-do-music-streaming-services-pay-musicians

Now on Spotify’s own artist site they don’t say, and say it’s affected by “various factors”. I’d like to know how that works for an independent artist both on an indie label or on their own label. I’ve had months where I got paid more for less streams, for instance.



IIRC, YouTube or Spotify or Apple or all of them have a stipulation that for an artist's music to be available to stream on their services, ALL of that artist's music must be PERPETUALLY available on their service? Just wondering if indie artists would be able to pull their music off these platforms, and either only allow their music to be streamed from their own websites at a price they dictate, or band together and launch their own streaming service with a subscription rate that makes it more profitable for the artists. I'm sure this has been thought of before, and if so, there's probably some logistical or practical reason it won't work, 'cause I'm assuming if it COULD work, indie artists would already be doing it? What's stopping a new indie artist from having their music out on the big services long enough to get "known" in the general public consciousness, then pulling their work so it can only be streamed under their terms for a more reasonable profit?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 10:04:08 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

And who said it did?

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 10:07:54 AM
I don't wanna talk about streaming vs. physical etc as a stand alone - it's a boring topic, and I've been through that many times on other music/gear/industry forums.

What I want to talk about is The Beach Boys, Feel Flows, and how streaming vs. physical products affects these copyright releases. And how maybe, just maybe - this is relevant to this thread because if FF is not released - we are gonna get another copyright dump this year. And it's likely gonna be a bare bones one. And 2021 is a different year than 2020, and sales of these sets are relevant to future releases, including FF.

The policing of this thread is getting weird IMO.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 18, 2020, 10:09:56 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."


I don't think that anyone thinks that, more of a case of conversation following a natural course and veering into related areas. The line at which something crosses from on topic to off topic is a blurry one. Surely no one here will take their eye off the overarching current concern of the Feel Flows box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

Also, guess what?

If FF is not released this year, it's possible it's pushed out further. And then further. And then - maybe re-assessed? Maybe re-assessed a year or two later with considerations for things like, I don't know ... sales and budgets? This is an on-topic tangent.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 10:20:41 AM
Also, guess what?

If FF is not released this year, it's possible it's pushed out further. And then further. And then - maybe re-assessed? Maybe re-assessed a year or two later with considerations for things like, I don't know ... sales and budgets? This is an on-topic tangent.

Dude, talk about whatever you want. I'm only suggesting this is a weighty and big enough topic that it warrants another thread.

Of course all of this is various shades of "on topic".

I personally think fixating on this particular issue is MISSING THE POINT of what's going on *right now*. It's literally cart-before-the-horse stuff.

The delays currently happening have ZERO to do with any of this. Sure, if the set IS RELEASED, then all those other issues become more germane.

Maybe that's the best way to put it: My feeling is that it makes a MILLION times more sense to talk about the streaming vs. purchasing issue *after* we get this "Feel Flows" set released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 10:25:58 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.

Well you keep moving the target.

I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post - which is interesting and relevant IMO - letting fans know that lack of purchasing of the copyright sets threatens the continuation of the sets. Regardless of the drama surrounding how that post came about, and how it was introduced into this thread (I'm not participating in that part), I think that is valid and legit.

It's particularly valid in the scenario in which FF is released as a deluxe box set but maybe doesn't sell as much as expected because everyone is streaming it. Then maybe we don't get another lavish set, and just get basic dumps with bare minimum. I am personally most looking forward to a 1976-era set tbh. And I would wish that that particular set is a multi-disc physical box, vinyl, etc.

So what is the big conspiracy here? I don't see how a thread that becomes a circle jerk of "I really want FF to come out!" is really any more helpful than an active conversation with a natural flow. What exactly, in your opinion, should people be discussing here?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 10:28:48 AM

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that.

Okay then


Dude, talk about whatever you want.

And I will ... in this thread


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 18, 2020, 10:58:53 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.

Well you keep moving the target.

I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post - which is interesting and relevant IMO - letting fans know that lack of purchasing of the copyright sets threatens the continuation of the sets. Regardless of the drama surrounding how that post came about, and how it was introduced into this thread (I'm not participating in that part), I think that is valid and legit.

It's particularly valid in the scenario in which FF is released as a deluxe box set but maybe doesn't sell as much as expected because everyone is streaming it. Then maybe we don't get another lavish set, and just get basic dumps with bare minimum. I am personally most looking forward to a 1976-era set tbh. And I would wish that that particular set is a multi-disc physical box, vinyl, etc.

So what is the big conspiracy here? I don't see how a thread that becomes a circle jerk of "I really want FF to come out!" is really any more helpful than an active conversation with a natural flow. What exactly, in your opinion, should people be discussing here?

The point in bold:

In this specific case, what is still being lost sometimes in the discussion is that the Feel Flows set was approved, given the green light, worked on, completed, and is now sitting that way without a projected release date. Obviously if it got that far in the process, the possible lack of sales and support was not an issue, the possible lack of support and sales due to digital streaming isn't an issue, and currently those issues are not holding up the set. We've been told by people directly involved that the *label wants it*.

So any issues going back to 2018 don't seem to have been an issue here if the set was originally approved, the project was completed, and the label wants it. And we're told the issues from 2018 that were resurrected through whatever ulterior motives were at play had nothing to do with this. Does anything more need to be said?

Of course it's important for fans to support and buy such material - You currently have 1,400 of them on a petition saying they'd support it and buy it, and you have people here posting repeatedly that they support and buy it.

I guess I don't understand why a series of posts from 2018 continues to be an issue when all of the support and willingness to buy this set has been demonstrated over and over again, and all the names on that petition and writing their thoughts here back it up.

If more voices in support of this are needed, then take it to other media outlets beyond the fan base. It was great to see Joel give it a good write-up in his publication. The fan base is already on board. We've been repeatedly saying we're on board for weeks. The petition is still getting signatures saying "we're on board".

I don't think the issue is any lack of fan support at this point. I don't think it ever was to be honest, minus those stunts pulled earlier this week trying and failing to suggest otherwise. The fans, the label, and if social media is any indication, several principles directly involved are on board with this set.

I think most people who know about the existence of this completed set have already signed the petition, or posted here in support. The fans are speaking loudly. If that's not enough, get it into the hands of the online music press.

Regarding streaming versus physical product, I wrote some of my thoughts in a separate topic. Anyone is welcome to do the same. I don't think, in my own personal opinion, that trying to get into the feasibility of streaming versus physical product carries much weight in 2020 especially when that delivery system has been in place now for years. The only solution to this dilemma would be to restrict all streaming purchases and limit releases to only physical product, and I think that wouldn't make sense in the simplest business terms to wipe out all of that potential revenue over aesthetics. People who want the physical product will buy it, people who do not buy physical product will pay to stream it. As long as the music gets out there to people who want it, and revenue is collected from doing it, they can coexist. And if the system in place is the issue, where new releases are available to stream, it's an issue far beyond the fans' reach to where the labels would have to be convinced to cut off streaming for their artists. I really can't see anything like that with big labels and major artists involved happening.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187) - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
I'm of the belief that some people are legitimately "in the know" about the reasons for the set's holdup - at least this has been hinted to by some posts indicating certainty (not hunches) of what's *not* causing the holdup. I don't think anyone would allude to things like that with certainty unless they had some certainty.

So I concur that streaming type issues should be taken off the table for this thread - I too would hate to give anyone who actually desires the set to NOT be released any shot in the arm to their heinous desires by us fans getting this thread bogged down on what appears to be an irrelevant tangent.

(Not that the streaming topic isn't interesting in and of itself, but yeah if it's not what's happening here, then it just becomes a distraction). If I knew what I as a fan could do to help the situation, I'd do it in a heartbeat (and I wish there was a pamphlet that concerned fans could receive that would outline steps of what we can do - or can avoid doing - to perhaps help even the tiniest bit to move the dial on FF), but I feel pretty confident that talking about what it seems is *not* the reason is counterproductive in this thread, since distractions are counterproductive, IMHO. I say all of that respectfully.

My hunch (and that's all it is, is a strong hunch) is that Mike Love and his antics in some form are behind this state we're in. To think otherwise is to ignore some circumstantial evidence, plus ignore some past similar holdups, and think that all of that is just mere coincidence - do some people think that? 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 11:39:33 AM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.

Well you keep moving the target.

I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post - which is interesting and relevant IMO - letting fans know that lack of purchasing of the copyright sets threatens the continuation of the sets. Regardless of the drama surrounding how that post came about, and how it was introduced into this thread (I'm not participating in that part), I think that is valid and legit.

It's particularly valid in the scenario in which FF is released as a deluxe box set but maybe doesn't sell as much as expected because everyone is streaming it. Then maybe we don't get another lavish set, and just get basic dumps with bare minimum. I am personally most looking forward to a 1976-era set tbh. And I would wish that that particular set is a multi-disc physical box, vinyl, etc.

So what is the big conspiracy here? I don't see how a thread that becomes a circle jerk of "I really want FF to come out!" is really any more helpful than an active conversation with a natural flow. What exactly, in your opinion, should people be discussing here?

The point in bold:

In this specific case, what is still being lost sometimes in the discussion is that the Feel Flows set was approved, given the green light, worked on, completed, and is now sitting that way without a projected release date. Obviously if it got that far in the process, the possible lack of sales and support was not an issue, the possible lack of support and sales due to digital streaming isn't an issue, and currently those issues are not holding up the set. We've been told by people directly involved that the *label wants it*.

So any issues going back to 2018 don't seem to have been an issue here if the set was originally approved, the project was completed, and the label wants it. And we're told the issues from 2018 that were resurrected through whatever ulterior motives were at play had nothing to do with this. Does anything more need to be said?

Of course it's important for fans to support and buy such material - You currently have 1,400 of them on a petition saying they'd support it and buy it, and you have people here posting repeatedly that they support and buy it.

I guess I don't understand why a series of posts from 2018 continues to be an issue when all of the support and willingness to buy this set has been demonstrated over and over again, and all the names on that petition and writing their thoughts here back it up.

If more voices in support of this are needed, then take it to other media outlets beyond the fan base. It was great to see Joel give it a good write-up in his publication. The fan base is already on board. We've been repeatedly saying we're on board for weeks. The petition is still getting signatures saying "we're on board".

I don't think the issue is any lack of fan support at this point. I don't think it ever was to be honest, minus those stunts pulled earlier this week trying and failing to suggest otherwise. The fans, the label, and if social media is any indication, several principles directly involved are on board with this set.

I think most people who know about the existence of this completed set have already signed the petition, or posted here in support. The fans are speaking loudly. If that's not enough, get it into the hands of the online music press.

Regarding streaming versus physical product, I wrote some of my thoughts in a separate topic. Anyone is welcome to do the same. I don't think, in my own personal opinion, that trying to get into the feasibility of streaming versus physical product carries much weight in 2020 especially when that delivery system has been in place now for years. The only solution to this dilemma would be to restrict all streaming purchases and limit releases to only physical product, and I think that wouldn't make sense in the simplest business terms to wipe out all of that potential revenue over aesthetics. People who want the physical product will buy it, people who do not buy physical product will pay to stream it. As long as the music gets out there to people who want it, and revenue is collected from doing it, they can coexist. And if the system in place is the issue, where new releases are available to stream, it's an issue far beyond the fans' reach to where the labels would have to be convinced to cut off streaming for their artists. I really can't see anything like that with big labels and major artists involved happening.



Most of us (aside from the folks who kind of wander into the thread and have not read through it all) are in agreement that there does not seem to be any indication that there are label/financial issues with the lack of release of the completed project. I just don't see why this discussion has to be so black & white, and almost political -in terms of factions of the group's fans.

The conversation regarding Alan Boyd's comments surrounding the 1968 set are relevant to this discussion IMO. And I hope we can discuss these things with nuance. I would even argue the "GET FEEL FLOWS RELEASED" petition-type/rallying cry is the topic that should be in it's own thread. I was under the impression this thread was discussion about the FF box in general. Some are narrowing in on a very particular aspect of the conversation; others are introducing broader concepts and discussing them.

It's relevant because posters like Wirestone are suggesting that paying for a streaming service supports the set. And it's relevant because Alan Boyd's comments in 2018 are likely just as applicable right now as they were then. And in the event that FF is not released this year - it will be relevant again in 2021 in the event that FF is re-assessed for the market at that time.

If we get a copyright dump this year that is similar to last year - then we have two years in a row that there was not really a real "project" released. Things change at labels. Howie said he saved the thing twice. The idea that getting these kinds of releases are an uphill battle is ripe for discussion. The idea that what we know now is now how it is tomorrow is ripe for discussion.

The bolded section of my post: "I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post - which is interesting and relevant IMO - letting fans know that lack of purchasing of the copyright sets threatens the continuation of the sets. Regardless of the drama surrounding how that post came about, and how it was introduced into this thread (I'm not participating in that part), I think that is valid and legit."

^ extremely relevant to this topic. These sets do not fund themselves. They are funded 100% on the future prospects for profitability. It has apparently been determined that the $$$ invested in FF will return profit at this point in time. Whether that determination changes next year or the year after (in the event of a non-release of FF this year) is open for discussion.

What if sales numbers are important to BRI members making these decisions? What if certain members don't want to release sets unless they meet certain sales criteria, and would prefer more unpopular releases to remain obscure? What if larger sales numbers for archive sets would encourage these members to reconsider? All thoughts and ideas that are relevant.

There's talk about "legacy" on these boards. This is the group's legacy. Whether we like it or not, the current members are the ones who get to decide how they want it to be presented. It's lame if any of them signed off, then pulled out. It would be nice if Dennis' family had a voice, but history is what it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I'm of the belief that some people are legitimately "in the know" about the reasons for the set's holdup - at least this has been hinted to by some posts indicating certainty (not hunches) of what's *not* causing the holdup. I don't think anyone would allude to things like that with certainty unless they had some certainty.

So I concur that streaming type issues should be taken off the table for this thread - I too would hate to give anyone who actually desires the set to NOT be released any shot in the arm to their heinous desires by us fans getting this thread bogged down on what appears to be an irrelevant tangent.

(Not that the streaming topic isn't interesting in and of itself, but yeah if it's not what's happening here, then it just becomes a distraction). If I knew what I as a fan could do to help the situation, I'd do it in a heartbeat (and I wish there was a pamphlet that concerned fans could receive that would outline steps of what we can do - or can avoid doing - to perhaps help even the tiniest bit to move the dial on FF), but I feel pretty confident that talking about what it seems is *not* the reason is counterproductive in this thread, since distractions are counterproductive, IMHO. I say all of that respectfully.

My hunch (and that's all it is, is a strong hunch) is that Mike Love and his antics in some form are behind this state we're in. To think otherwise is to ignore some circumstantial evidence, plus ignore some past similar holdups, and think that all of that is just mere coincidence - do some people think that?  

I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introducted in this thread.

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If the only function of this thread is to rally to get the thing released, as some seem to be suggesting.

I say we discuss it all in this thread - unfiltered. That's what makes these discussions engaging. I don't want censorship or policing of the thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 11:46:54 AM


What if sales numbers are important to BRI members making these decisions? What if certain members don't want to release sets unless they meet certain sales criteria, and would prefer more unpopular releases to remain obscure?  

TWGMTR hit #3 (a very high mark for a bunch of 70 year old dudes making a record), yet Mike still found a way to spin that as a negative. Pet Sounds is widely regarded as one of the most incredible pieces of musical art to come out of the 20th century, yet he had the gall to jaw-droppingly say in a recent-ish interview something to the effect that the Pet Sounds album should have had him writing the lyrics, and then it really could have been next level.

Bottom line is that those at BRI (I'm thinking of one dude, mainly) have decades-long personal vendettas and quests for power/respect that trump (pardon the expression) anything that could positively thought of as "certain sales criteria" by most rationally-thinking individuals.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 11:51:09 AM


What if sales numbers are important to BRI members making these decisions? What if certain members don't want to release sets unless they meet certain sales criteria, and would prefer more unpopular releases to remain obscure?  

TWGMTR hit #3 (a very high mark for a bunch of 70 year old dudes making a record), yet Mike still found a way to spin that as a negative. Pet Sounds is widely regarded as one of the most incredible pieces of musical art to come out of the 20th century, yet he had the gall to jaw-droppingly say in a recent-ish interview something to the effect that the Pet Sounds album should have had him writing the lyrics, and then it really could have been next level.

Bottom line is that those at BRI (I'm thinking of one dude, mainly) have decades-long personal vendettas and quests for power/respect that trump (pardon the expression) anything that could positively thought of as "certain sales criteria" by most rationally-thinking individuals.

How about responding to the main point of my post, instead of grabbing a random hypothetical example and using it as a gotcha?

But you have proved my point - that it's ripe for discussion. It's an interesting angle. It's a more compelling conversation when these angles are not suppressed in the name of turning this thread into what is essentially a boring petition.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 11:52:45 AM


Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

If someone with insider information would outright state that fans putting logic together to speculate about how things seem to line up about Mike likely - at least in part - being behind this holdup is a bad idea to discuss and would have a negative impact, I'll happily keep my theories to myself. I'd love to be disproven, too. I'd also be happy to never know the real answer, and to just have the music released.

I'm of the opinion that Mike and the other band members, families, everyone involved can't keep silent forever and ever about this set. I mean, that would take an awful lot of work. Fans are gonna keep clamoring for its release, and they are not gonna shut up.

I mean, at a certain point, if this non-release drags on for months or years (heaven forbid), and if everyone involved 100% remains silent, it will become obvious that some active suppression of this great music is happening, and that in and of itself is going to come to the media's attention in a bigger way. And then THAT will be the story that sells. Is it going to be "no comment" for years and years, and deleting social media comments for years and years on end? If Mike is behind this, I'm sure he doesn't want to look like the bad guy yet again. And this band is so incredibly famous for their greatest music being suppressed, so half of the work for that being a sellable story to media outlets has been done already. SMiLE Part II is how this would look. Eventually this will be better known in the media. And ultimately, I think that's gonna put pressure to the parties involved to resolve their conflicts and just get the damn music out and take fans' money.

But on the whole, I will agree that it's probably most productive to mainly talk about why it would be a good thing for the band to release this music. I'll not be holding my breath for somebody in the know to say "I can promise that Mike has nothing to do with it, lay off him". For me personally, it's very hard to not get caught up in the negative stuff, because frankly it's beyond awful to think that some petty BS is likely behind the squashing of great music.

After so many examples of similar stuff throughout the decades, it's a really terrible feeling. As I said, I'd love to know a roadmap as fans what we could/should/shouldn't do to help. But in the meantime, I'll listen to those who seem to for sure know certain things about what's going on here. If any people in the know can give feedback as to whether what we discuss is helping or hurting the situation, without spilling the beans, I and hopefully most other fans will gladly take any such advice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 11:57:03 AM


What if sales numbers are important to BRI members making these decisions? What if certain members don't want to release sets unless they meet certain sales criteria, and would prefer more unpopular releases to remain obscure?  

TWGMTR hit #3 (a very high mark for a bunch of 70 year old dudes making a record), yet Mike still found a way to spin that as a negative. Pet Sounds is widely regarded as one of the most incredible pieces of musical art to come out of the 20th century, yet he had the gall to jaw-droppingly say in a recent-ish interview something to the effect that the Pet Sounds album should have had him writing the lyrics, and then it really could have been next level.

Bottom line is that those at BRI (I'm thinking of one dude, mainly) have decades-long personal vendettas and quests for power/respect that trump (pardon the expression) anything that could positively thought of as "certain sales criteria" by most rationally-thinking individuals.

How about responding to the main point of my post, instead of grabbing a random hypothetical example and using it as a gotcha?

But you have proved my point - that it's ripe for discussion. It's an interesting angle. It's a more compelling conversation when these angles are not suppressed in the name of turning this thread into what is essentially a boring petition.

Definitely don't want to be suppressing thought or angles. I don't mean to come across like that.  My sole motivation is for this thread to hopefully in some way help the set be released.

I just happen to feel based on the nature of some of the posts in this thread, that it can be surmised that what you are suggesting is for sure, confirmed to not a factor in the non-release.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
The conversation regarding Alan Boyd's comments surrounding the 1968 set are relevant to this discussion IMO. And I hope we can discuss these things with nuance. I would even argue the "GET FEEL FLOWS RELEASED" petition-type/rallying cry is the topic that should be in it's own thread. I was under the impression this thread was discussion about the FF box in general. Some are narrowing in on a very particular aspect of the conversation; others are introducing broader concepts and discussing them.

If you would argue that the topic about ways to help release Feel Flows in the thread titled Feel Flows should have its own thread, then certainly you can see the logic in moving a topic about streaming archival releases to another thread?

When this thread was created we were under the impression that we would actually be getting the set. At the moment, per Jon Stebbins ("It's not looking great") to Howie's most recent ""if" the project gets going", we know that there is a good chance this set may not come out at all. Thus at the moment I think the more pressing topic very much related to the topic Feel Flows is the actual release of Feel Flows. Not some hypothetical that involves Feel Flows somehow mostly getting streamed and thus possibly extinguishing a lavish boxset for the 1976 era (which, hate to say, if SS/WildHoney/Friends/2020 didn't get lavish boxsets I highly doubt that Love You will either).

Again,

Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187) - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:04:31 PM
I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introducted in this thread.

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If the only function of this thread is to rally to get the thing released, as some seem to be suggesting.

I say we discuss it all in this thread - unfiltered. That's what makes these discussions engaging. I don't want censorship or policing of the thread.

There's no censorship here. And "policing of threads" is up to the moderators/owners of a board. Threads get split (and combined) ALL THE TIME.

I've said numerous times now that the streaming/industry issue is interesting and worth discussing. It hurts NOTHING and NO ONE to put that all in a separate thread. It actually focuses and enhances *both* threads/discussions. If *that's* not good enough for you, then you're the one being difficult.

The problem with burning time in this thread talking about this fetish of obsessing about the streaming debate is that it ends up EXACTLY LIKE THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. We end up talking about what we're talking about, and then we talk about *that*, and then we talk about whether we should be talking about talking about something.

I would implore the mods to have a separate thread for the streaming vs. purchase debate (a thread which I'll be happy to participate in!), and direct folks here to that thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
The conversation regarding Alan Boyd's comments surrounding the 1968 set are relevant to this discussion IMO. And I hope we can discuss these things with nuance. I would even argue the "GET FEEL FLOWS RELEASED" petition-type/rallying cry is the topic that should be in it's own thread. I was under the impression this thread was discussion about the FF box in general. Some are narrowing in on a very particular aspect of the conversation; others are introducing broader concepts and discussing them.

If you would argue that the topic about ways to help release Feel Flows in the thread titled Feel Flows should have its own thread, then certainly you can see the logic in moving a topic about streaming archival releases to another thread?

When this thread was created we were under the impression that we would actually be getting the set. At the moment, per Jon Stebbins ("It's not looking great") to Howie's most recent ""if" the project gets going", we know that there is a good chance this set may not come out at all. Thus at the moment I think the more pressing topic very much related to the topic Feel Flows is the actual release of Feel Flows. Not some hypothetical that involves Feel Flows somehow mostly getting streamed and thus possibly extinguishing a lavish boxset for the 1976 era (which, hate to say, if SS/WildHoney/Friends/2020 didn't get lavish boxsets I highly doubt that Love You will either).

Again,

Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187) - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.

I personally think all of the FF stuff should stay here - it's a more engaging, long winding strange trip that way. I'm saying if one is to argue keeping things on-topic - and that topic is rallying for the release - then THAT should be separated out.

What I'm saying is that this is the catch-all FF thread. And if someone wants to narrow that down - branch that one out. Rather than telling others to branch out relevant sub-topics in the catch-all thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 12:08:15 PM

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.

Well you keep moving the target.

I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post -

And I ask, why? Why are we discussing a years-old post in relation to a boxed set that is *not* imperiled in any way because of the issues raised in that old post? I'm not saying you *can't* discuss anything, I'm asking why?

If this set somehow ended up raising that tangential issue, which in turn raised (in your mind anyway) the topic of streaming vs. downloading and music industry economics, then I also ask, why is there resistance to starting a separate thread about it? What is *that* "conspiracy theory" all about?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:12:41 PM
I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introducted in this thread.

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If the only function of this thread is to rally to get the thing released, as some seem to be suggesting.

I say we discuss it all in this thread - unfiltered. That's what makes these discussions engaging. I don't want censorship or policing of the thread.

There's no censorship here. And "policing of threads" is up to the moderators/owners of a board. Threads get split (and combined) ALL THE TIME.

I've said numerous times now that the streaming/industry issue is interesting and worth discussing. It hurts NOTHING and NO ONE to put that all in a separate thread. It actually focuses and enhances *both* threads/discussions. If *that's* not good enough for you, then you're the one being difficult.

The problem with burning time in this thread talking about this fetish of obsessing about the streaming debate is that it ends up EXACTLY LIKE THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. We end up talking about what we're talking about, and then we talk about *that*, and then we talk about whether we should be talking about talking about something.

I would implore the mods to have a separate thread for the streaming vs. purchase debate (a thread which I'll be happy to participate in!), and direct folks here to that thread.

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:13:14 PM
Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187) - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.

EXACTLY. For f*ck's sake man, we've already wasted *pages* talking about how to talk about talking about it.

What could be on a 1972/1973 set is also an interesting topic, is also not technically "totally off-topic", and could theoretically be impacted by "Feel Flows" if it's released. But I wouldn't advocate against moving *that* topic to another thread either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 18, 2020, 12:19:23 PM
Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 12:25:48 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187)

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:28:59 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:29:03 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 12:31:35 PM
I personally think all of the FF stuff should stay here - it's a more engaging, long winding strange trip that way. I'm saying if one is to argue keeping things on-topic - and that topic is rallying for the release - then THAT should be separated out.

What I'm saying is that this is the catch-all FF thread. And if someone wants to narrow that down - branch that one out. Rather than telling others to branch out relevant sub-topics in the catch-all thread.

Our point is that this thread is confusing enough as it is. There are people who literally come here every day who ask questions that have been answered a thousand times, answered both by insiders and the knowledgable members of this forum. How much more confusing is it going to be for people to slog through this thread if now we're adding some hypothetical streaming problem to the mix?

This thread was originally about information regarding the Feel Flows set. We then found out information that the prospect of Feel Flows being released didn't look good. Thus the thread morphed from "lets talk about Feel Flows" to "we won't have anything to talk about unless this set gets released!" - which is completely logical.

If anything, I too am interested in the topic of streaming, DonnyL, but I also don't want any of Howie's posts getting lost in the mire. I don't want people getting more confused and asking twice as many questions because they can't easily find an answer to a question that actually directly relates to the Feel Flows set that is buried behind pages of a hypothetical streaming debate/arguing about whether or not that topic belongs in the thread.

Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you.

Just a hunch, I'm guessing and would bet that HeyJude's source actually 100% knows what is going on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 12:32:02 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.

OK got it. Sorry to have misunderstood you. Anyway, it's unfortunate there's arguments here because ultimately I would hope we just all want a single goal of getting this music out. There's no perfect way to achieve proper communication that works for everybody in the world the message boards I suppose.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:33:30 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.

Please stop with the references to old posters I have no affiliation or interaction with, or even familiarity with.

Even if it is, so what if it's cart before the horse? Why can't that be discussed? Why all the talk about what should and should not be discussed in this thread? Really bizarre. Again, if your agenda is to soley have a thread that is rallying for FF, *that* is what should be separate. Let us discuss whatever as it relates to FF here. seriously


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 18, 2020, 12:36:33 PM
Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187)

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 12:36:38 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.

Please stop with the references to old posters I have no affiliation or interaction with, or even familiarity with.

Even if it is, so what if it's cart before the horse? Why can't that be discussed? Why all the talk about what should and should not be discussed in this thread? Really bizarre. Again, if your agenda is to soley have a thread that is rallying for FF, *that* is what should be separate. Let us discuss whatever as it relates to FF here. seriously

Your topic isn't limited to Feel Flows though. It encompasses a vast swath of archival material still in vaults. If anything, the topic of getting Feel Flows released does belong in a topic titled Feel Flows and the topic of streaming as it relates to FFs and subsequent archival releases should have it's own thread because it's not limited to FFs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:38:38 PM

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.

Okay, maybe I can clean this up right now so we can move on.

Clearly people *thought* you were saying the streaming issue was related to the hold-up on "Feel Flows" because it otherwise seems relatively random and off-topic to re-litigate a years-old post about streaming or downloading BB releases, and it also seems relatively off-topic to bust someone's balls when they admit they stream material through official channels.

I think "if you think streaming supports artists, then you're wrong" is PRETTY DARN OFF-TOPIC, and also the *perfect* entry point for a new thread to discuss the topic.

Subsequently, it's clear the issue actually is that you disagree about *what* this thread is or should be about.

The interesting thing about message boards is that an easy solution to this is to start a separate thread and then it *all* can be discussed. Nobody's hurt by two threads. Conversely, it is not helping to clog *this* thread up with these semantics debates.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 12:46:48 PM
Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187)

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.



okay NOW I WILL GO OFF TOPIC, and also simply GO OFF:

Please quote instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate interpretations:

"I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introduced in this thread."

There is nothing "insulting" nor "uncalled for" in my comments. I was simply stating that I'm trying to discuss Boyd's points (which I feel are relevant to this discussion overall) there without bringing in all the dirt of the past, and others probably don't want to discuss this because of all the political baggage that comes with the way the topic was introduced here. This was an innocent remark, not a jab.

You're a mod, and you need to do better and remain unbiased, not misrepresent posts. I am not in cahoots with AGD or filledpage or whoever these people are. I don't even get along with AGD.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 12:51:34 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"

I gotta say, this is definitely the most bizarre and entertaining music "release" I've witnessed. I can't wait to see how we'll all react when/if the tracklist becomes available. I'm almost hoping they do stream it, because I remember I had to wait 3 days for MiC to be shipped to my door after it was released. There was so much buzz and talk about the different tracks and I didn't participate because I was waiting to be surprised by the set. So it was 3 long days of waiting.

But anyways, I will be ordering the boxset the second it's available to order, but I would love to hear it when it drops at 12:01 AM whatever day it's released digitally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
I say we all make a video collage purporting to be from the future, of fans opening their Feel Flows boxset and posting the "unwrapping" on Youtube, as fans often do with box sets. And then we see the joy on their faces, the joy on their parents and gray-haired grandparents' faces upon listening to the music, and take a kill them with kindness approach to whoever is behind this ridiculous holdup. I'm only half-kidding on this.

Or what would the band do if someone who was legitimately unfortunately in poor health and perhaps not long for this world made a Youtube video plea for the FF music to be released while they are still living? Something like that could go viral. Would the band just ignore it? I can guarantee there are elderly BBs fans and superfans, or other folks who aren't doing well, for whom this set would be a shot in the arm for happiness.

Finally, what about JOHN STAMOS, the superfan of the song FOREVER?? Where is he in this equation? Wouldn't he want alternate versions of this song released? Then again, he's in the back pocket of someone. Hmm...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"

I gotta say, this is definitely the most bizarre and entertaining music "release" I've witnessed. I can't wait to see how we'll all react when/if the tracklist becomes available. I'm almost hoping they do stream it, because I remember I had to wait 3 days for MiC to be shipped to my door after it was released. There was so much buzz and talk about the different tracks and I didn't participate because I was waiting to be surprised by the set. So it was 3 long days of waiting.

But anyways, I will be ordering the boxset the second it's available to order, but I would love to hear it when it drops at 12:01 AM whatever day it's released digitally.

I have to say, this is a relatively unique situation vis-a-vis archival releases for the band.

While we've lamented in the past what hasn't been released, or what *could* be released, etc., they haven't often fully prepped a huge boxed set only to not release it.

Even other seemingly "canceled" projects like theoretical late 80s/early 90s Smile/GV boxed sets did not get to the stage of being fully compiled, mixed, mastered, and artwork prepped and ready to go.

Also, part of the subtext of what's going on now that one should consider is that how and why we know about this set should also tell everyone that is a unique situation.

Believe me, I've heard about other projects over the years that have been *pitched* to the band only to be ignored or shot down. I've heard of preliminary work being done to compile things, only for plans to change. But rarely if ever has there been a case where an amazing set (not hyperbolic to wonder if it's *the* greatest BB archival release) is like one step from home plate only to be halted.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Finally, what about JOHN STAMOS, the superfan of the song FOREVER?? Where is he in this equation? Wouldn't he want alternate versions of this song released? Then again, he's in the back pocket of someone. Hmm...

I've been saying for years that Stamos would be a thousand times more useful and effective as a BB supporter if he'd do things like champion archival releases, rather than just being a weekend rock star.

Who wants to see if they can shake anything loose on his social media?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 18, 2020, 01:05:11 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 18, 2020, 01:07:04 PM
Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187)

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.



okay NOW I WILL GO OFF TOPIC, and also simply GO OFF:

Please quote instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate interpretations:

"I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introduced in this thread."

There is nothing "insulting" nor "uncalled for" in my comments. I was simply stating that I'm trying to discuss Boyd's points (which I feel are relevant to this discussion overall) there without bringing in all the dirt of the past, and others probably don't want to discuss this because of all the political baggage that comes with the way the topic was introduced here. This was an innocent remark, not a jab.

You're a mod, and you need to do better and remain unbiased, not misrepresent posts. I am not in cahoots with AGD or filledpage or whoever these people are. I don't even get along with AGD.

Fair enough. I apologize if I misinterpreted what you said as something other than what you intended. I never said you were in cahoots with anyone here in this thread or in any other discussion here, so you're responding to something that doesn't exist as an issue.

As far as misrepresenting posts, I've been wrong before and will be wrong again, but in this case it wasn't deliberate and has nothing to do with a bias or anything else. It's simply reacting to what's being said, and we get it wrong sometimes like anything else.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 01:12:12 PM
Or what would the band do if someone who was legitimately unfortunately in poor health and perhaps not long for this world made a Youtube video plea for the FF music to be released while they are still living? Something like that could go viral. Would the band just ignore it?

I do think health and happiness are much needed in 2020 - given COVID, given the societal upheavals and changes (hell, look at how ornery everyone in this fandom is (especially me haha)). Ever since the set was known to be in jeopardy, it has floated around that if there was any year that we need a huge boost of happiness, it's this year. We've all had to deal with major changes in our lives, but what a treat it would be to end the year with a huge dose of amazing archival material. I know it's a long shot, but I wish so much that my 2020 could be saved by a ray of sunshine from The Beach Boys.

Also yes, bring on Stamos!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 01:12:49 PM
Finally, what about JOHN STAMOS, the superfan of the song FOREVER?? Where is he in this equation? Wouldn't he want alternate versions of this song released? Then again, he's in the back pocket of someone. Hmm...

I've been saying for years that Stamos would be a thousand times more useful and effective as a BB supporter if he'd do things like champion archival releases, rather than just being a weekend rock star.

Who wants to see if they can shake anything loose on his social media?



Totally. This is a song that is supposedly (and I don't doubt it) very personal to him, plus personal to his character of Uncle Jesse.

Stamos covered the damn song on an actual studio BBs album. It's the feather in his cap.

Uncle Jesse's wife, Lori Loughlin aka Aunt Becky, is now going to be locked away in prison... should Feel Flows with their signature song suffer the same fate?  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

My own fan knowledge/scholarship tells me you could probably look at that old "Brother Rarities Proposed Bonus Tracks" set of discs from 2000 to get just an inkling of an idea of some of the stuff that could be on the set.

I'd wager we'd get one or more iteration of "This Whole World" including that extra long backing track on that "Brother Rarities" test disc. The demo and alternate of "'Til I Die" would seem likely. The alternate "Add Some Music To Your Day."

I know, these are all obvious.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 01:19:51 PM
As has been mentioned, "Feel Flows" also wouldn't have to deal with the Beatles Get Back/Let It Be Peter Jackson multimedia project overshadowing (rightly or wrongly) a BB boxed set.

The path has been cleared for this set to be a true game-changer and work of art (a work of art containing works of art!)

The online article headlines write themselves. "Beach Boys to Add Some Music to Troubled Times with New Boxed Set", etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 18, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
As has been mentioned, "Feel Flows" also wouldn't have to deal with the Beatles Get Back/Let It Be Peter Jackson multimedia project overshadowing (rightly or wrongly) a BB boxed set.

The path has been cleared for this set to be a true game-changer and work of art (a work of art containing works of art!)

The online article headlines write themselves. "Beach Boys to Add Some Music to Troubled Times with New Boxed Set", etc.

And I think this is why it's such a huge deal for a lot of people. As has been said, total game-changer. Brian did extensive interviews for the liner notes. I can't even imagine how amazing the packaging is going to be. Gah, kills me that no good news has been said yet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 01:34:25 PM
As has been mentioned, "Feel Flows" also wouldn't have to deal with the Beatles Get Back/Let It Be Peter Jackson multimedia project overshadowing (rightly or wrongly) a BB boxed set.

The path has been cleared for this set to be a true game-changer and work of art (a work of art containing works of art!)

The online article headlines write themselves. "Beach Boys to Add Some Music to Troubled Times with New Boxed Set", etc.

And I think this is why it's such a huge deal for a lot of people. As has been said, total game-changer. Brian did extensive interviews for the liner notes. I can't even imagine how amazing the packaging is going to be. Gah, kills me that no good news has been said yet.

Yep. Brian opens himself up (presumably) to talk about his late brothers, and the great contributions they made to the band. Not a common thing for Brian to do. Nearly unheard of, certainly in any extensive way, since their passings. That in and of itself is a big deal, and I'm sure it meant something to Brian emotionally. Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, but to think that someone wants to sh*t on that is so extraordinarily terrible that I have no words.

Has anyone attempted to reach out to any of the non-BB member cowriters of any of the material from this era? I'd like to think there's someone who doesn't have something to lose in terms of future connections with this band, or someone who just doesn't give a f*ck anymore, who would be willing to spill the beans. Maybe even if it's just to a tabloid rag, for money. That's the thing. There are too many people connected to this band, to the songs of this era, for this to stay a secret and locked away forever. I just don't think that's gonna happen. Someone's gonna blab, someone else with a chip on their shoulder perhaps. Van Dyke Parks for example had no problem talking about how Mike stuck him with the bill for a flight in the early '90s. Someone can only be a dick to so many people for so many years before those with grievances come forward if for no other reason than to give that person a hard time.

In fact, I could see someone on the inside who can't publicly talk about things possibly leaking out a tidbit of info anonomously to a news source, or dropping a hint intentionally to be spread by a different person, in order to help move the dial here. Or if it's for some vengeful reason between parties, I have no doubt that two can (and will) play at that game in some way, shape, or form.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on September 18, 2020, 01:36:22 PM
Uncle Jesse's wife, Lori Loughlin aka Aunt Becky, is now going to be locked away in prison...

All the more relevance for ML's reworked version of "Riot in Cell Block Number 9"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 18, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
Uncle Jesse's wife, Lori Loughlin aka Aunt Becky, is now going to be locked away in prison...

All the more relevance for ML's reworked version of "Riot in Cell Block Number 9"

 :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 18, 2020, 02:34:03 PM
It's more than a little sad that we have more alternate versions of the Stamos version of Forever that the version by it's originator.

And I remember reading that Stamos wasn't exactly pleased with the results, and wasn't that keen for its release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 18, 2020, 02:46:10 PM
I’ll need to read the last two pages, but I think the discussion of streaming and such belongs in this thread because it does give information on how a digital only vs physical release would affect the project. NOT the release, mind you; specifically how it does . If anything I keep bringing it up to show how important a physical release is. It’s extremely relevant in this day/age.

K now I’ll get myself caught back up

Edit


sh*t...I’m VERY behind on this thread


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 18, 2020, 02:53:11 PM
Quote
I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

That’s how I felt too; looks like I picked the wrong day to have a dr appointment


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 18, 2020, 03:10:23 PM
As has been mentioned, "Feel Flows" also wouldn't have to deal with the Beatles Get Back/Let It Be Peter Jackson multimedia project overshadowing (rightly or wrongly) a BB boxed set.

The path has been cleared for this set to be a true game-changer and work of art (a work of art containing works of art!)

The online article headlines write themselves. "Beach Boys to Add Some Music to Troubled Times with New Boxed Set", etc.

And I think this is why it's such a huge deal for a lot of people. As has been said, total game-changer. Brian did extensive interviews for the liner notes. I can't even imagine how amazing the packaging is going to be. Gah, kills me that no good news has been said yet.

Yep. Brian opens himself up (presumably) to talk about his late brothers, and the great contributions they made to the band. Not a common thing for Brian to do. Nearly unheard of, certainly in any extensive way, since their passings. That in and of itself is a big deal, and I'm sure it meant something to Brian emotionally. Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, but to think that someone wants to sh*t on that is so extraordinarily terrible that I have no words.

Has anyone attempted to reach out to any of the non-BB member cowriters of any of the material from this era? I'd like to think there's someone who doesn't have something to lose in terms of future connections with this band, or someone who just doesn't give a f*ck anymore, who would be willing to spill the beans. Maybe even if it's just to a tabloid rag, for money. That's the thing. There are too many people connected to this band, to the songs of this era, for this to stay a secret and locked away forever. I just don't think that's gonna happen. Someone's gonna blab, someone else with a chip on their shoulder perhaps. Van Dyke Parks for example had no problem talking about how Mike stuck him with the bill for a flight in the early '90s. Someone can only be a dick to so many people for so many years before those with grievances come forward if for no other reason than to give that person a hard time.

In fact, I could see someone on the inside who can't publicly talk about things possibly leaking out a tidbit of info anonomously to a news source, or dropping a hint intentionally to be spread by a different person, in order to help move the dial here. Or if it's for some vengeful reason between parties, I have no doubt that two can (and will) play at that game in some way, shape, or form.

I obviously can't speak to any one specific case, and there are of course many types of associates related to the band, but I'd wager few if any musicians/co-writers/collaborators would know the particulars of what's holding this set up.

If often doesn't amount to more than most of those types either not even knowing about the set, or just overhearing that a set was in the works at some point.

That all being said, it couldn't hurt to get every person in the BB family/orb to say they want this set released. Can't hurt one bit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 18, 2020, 03:42:40 PM
Quote
I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

That’s how I felt too; looks like I picked the wrong day to have a dr appointment

Hey Billy, your health and wellbeing must always be priority! :billy2


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 18, 2020, 04:27:11 PM
👍



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 18, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
Sorry if I derailed the thread or came across as 'guilting' anybody - if you read my original posts that clearly wasn't my intention, nor do I have any stake in drama that occurred two year prior to my even registering for an account here. I honestly just found the streaming aspect to be an interesting subtopic, especially as relates to the virtual non-'release' of the 1968 sets after much more effort was put into Sunshine Tomorrow. I see no need to start a new thread - there's not that much more to say on it that I can see - it was an organic tangent which perhaps should have been brief but then got a bit overblown.

Back on topic - I do believe getting people like Carnie Wilson on board to speak about the release would be a good next step, or even Al who has come close to openly supporting the movement for its release. Really the ideal would be Brian - he's the one who has the power to take a stand on this - he wrote most of the songs and his position as the real leader of the band is historically secure at this point. If Mike tried to antagonise or bar Brian from a hypothetical reunion over something like this it'd be nothing but a huge PR nightmare for Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 18, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
^Agreed. On all points.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 18, 2020, 07:23:37 PM

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.

Bingo. And eventually a number of projects that were originally blocked/delayed were released later on.

But what we don't need in a thread like this--one that has already been heavily targeted for distraction and hijacking--is someone going off into several tangents simultaneously in the same message/message string. You're a very smart guy, Donny, but IMO you are wasting our time by attempting to somehow go beyond the obvious and verifiable facts about potentially fluctuating economic considerations. When you cross the line into speculation about what happens if FEEL FLOWS doesn't appear, you risk becoming wonky and tedious, just as I risk being tedious and combative by taking after you-know-who and calling for the track listing of FEEL FLOWS to be leaked.

You can't really go any further with this line of reasoning than to say "some factors change"...unless you've also got a crystal ball next to your laptop that you're not telling us about.

What matters to most of the folks in this thread is doing what they can to publicize and expand support for a set whose existence has been confirmed and has been described as a game-changer by Howie. Part of the goal of creating that support is to get as much actual information out into the zeitgeist as possible. Part of that actual information (wait for it) is for us to know exactly what was planned to be in the FEEL FLOWS project.

Of course the next counter-argument will be that if that happens, that will cause everyone to circle the wagons. Which brings us back to the circular firing squad--capable of rearing its head pretty much whenever it decides to do so. No, the more people know about what they will be missing, the more the clamor for the set will grow.

BTW, the subject matter in that "other" FEEL FLOWS thread you are trying to start belongs in this discussion, and has been covered in this thread previously. To answer your question: Mike was able to block things by himself in the past, so we have to assume that given how he has consolidated power in the years since Carl's passing, it is highly likely that he can do so again.

CD's post on page 65 takes an intriguing (and rather harrowing) turn in expanding my original idea here that Mike was blocking the release to get something he wanted. I think that topic needs to be explored further, if people can stomach some of the implications within it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 18, 2020, 08:44:41 PM

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.

Bingo. And eventually a number of projects that were originally blocked/delayed were released later on.

But what we don't need in a thread like this--one that has already been heavily targeted for distraction and hijacking--is someone going off into several tangents simultaneously in the same message/message string. You're a very smart guy, Donny, but IMO you are wasting our time by attempting to somehow go beyond the obvious and verifiable facts about potentially fluctuating economic considerations. When you cross the line into speculation about what happens if FEEL FLOWS doesn't appear, you risk becoming wonky and tedious, just as I risk being tedious and combative by taking after you-know-who and calling for the track listing of FEEL FLOWS to be leaked.

You can't really go any further with this line of reasoning than to say "some factors change"...unless you've also got a crystal ball next to your laptop that you're not telling us about.

What matters to most of the folks in this thread is doing what they can to publicize and expand support for a set whose existence has been confirmed and has been described as a game-changer by Howie. Part of the goal of creating that support is to get as much actual information out into the zeitgeist as possible. Part of that actual information (wait for it) is for us to know exactly what was planned to be in the FEEL FLOWS project.

Of course the next counter-argument will be that if that happens, that will cause everyone to circle the wagons. Which brings us back to the circular firing squad--capable of rearing its head pretty much whenever it decides to do so. No, the more people know about what they will be missing, the more the clamor for the set will grow.

BTW, the subject matter in that "other" FEEL FLOWS thread you are trying to start belongs in this discussion, and has been covered in this thread previously. To answer your question: Mike was able to block things by himself in the past, so we have to assume that given how he has consolidated power in the years since Carl's passing, it is highly likely that he can do so again.

CD's post on page 65 takes an intriguing (and rather harrowing) turn in expanding my original idea here that Mike was blocking the release to get something he wanted. I think that topic needs to be explored further, if people can stomach some of the implications within it.


No crystal ball, but we have enough information at this point to come to our own conclusions. And the writing is in the wall, and any discussion about the the potential future release of FF is gonna have to include ...  you know, the future ... which is likely to be different than today.

It’s September. We have Mike’s interview. We have public comments from Howie and Jon.

They are gonna probably need to release a bunch of live recordings end of year, along with “Seasons in the Sun”, “Big Sur”, and “My Solution”, key unreleased tracks. If this happens, it will possibly change what is currently completed as FF. Whatever project Capitol is apparently eager to release will potentially morph into a different project or projects. Those who think the tangent regarding sales of digital downloads factoring into this discussion are dismissing relevant ideas out of hand. And without the tangents and speculations, this thread is boring as hell too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 18, 2020, 09:16:31 PM
Who was it who said ‘I will always be the Antichrist’?  >:D

...asking for a friend.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 18, 2020, 09:25:27 PM
One thing I’d like to point out....a CE dump at the end of this year doesn’t necessarily make the boxed set pointless; remember there has to be one for next year too, and we really don’t know what from 1971 is on the set. That may be where most of the “good” stuff is for all we know. Hopefully we don’t have to settle , but time’s a tickin’


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 19, 2020, 03:09:25 AM
Quote
If this happens, it will possibly change what is currently completed as FF. Whatever project Capitol is apparently eager to release will potentially morph into a different project or projects. Those who think the tangent regarding sales of digital downloads factoring into this discussion are dismissing relevant ideas out of hand.

You had mentioned pages back that the main reason why the topic of streaming is particularly important is because if “everyone” streams FFs then future lavish boxsets will be put in jeopardy. It was basically our point that the boxset is already guaranteed to make $140,000 (per the petition - thus “everyone” isn’t going to stream it) and that number skyrockets by who knows how many magnitudes when/if an actual marketing campaign starts. Also, at the moment we can still choose to buy or stream a plethora of previous archival releases - thus your admitted main topic of supporting an archival release to support future projects doesn’t just encompass FFs but instead an entire broad range of archival releases that are actually available to be purchased right now (unlike FFs). So in that context, yes I still completely stand by my point that the topic you found most relevant regarding streaming deserves its own thread because the topic has (and deserves) the potential to expand into a much broader conversation that isn’t limited to the confines of the Feel Flows boxset.

Now, if we want to move the goalposts and say that we should be discussing the unfortunate alternatives if FFs does not get released before December 31, 2020 then I am all for that...because I think people should realize why we are trying to focus our efforts on getting this thing released: it is my understanding that compiling and creating Feel Flows has already been paid for by BRI. If a lot of the contents of this set get released via a copyright dump, then yes the project would likely have to change. But how likely is BRI going to want to fund a new/different product if the one they previously funded got stuck in some non-release limbo that ended in a copyright dump?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 19, 2020, 03:57:28 AM
I just want to know if they found a version of FF with the original last verse printed in the lyrics on the original album that aren't in the actual song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 19, 2020, 09:00:17 AM
With this discussion about supporting these archival releases that’s coming digital or physical, I was checking today what digital releases I bought and what I downloaded through torrents or soulseek.
I think it’s fair to the band to buy all of them, so they’ll keep releasing more goodies like the previous collections (especially Friends Sessions, the best archival release to date), so I made a list and I hadn’t bought 5 releases, but today I purchased Friends Sessions from Tidal and from now I’ll buy one release per month at least, so in the coming months I’ll have all of them bought legally.
If something like this would make the band to continue release archival material, so keep it coming!
Waiting for the Feel Flows box set to pre-order as soon as it will be announced!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 19, 2020, 01:03:58 PM
Quote
If this happens, it will possibly change what is currently completed as FF. Whatever project Capitol is apparently eager to release will potentially morph into a different project or projects. Those who think the tangent regarding sales of digital downloads factoring into this discussion are dismissing relevant ideas out of hand.

You had mentioned pages back that the main reason why the topic of streaming is particularly important is because if “everyone” streams FFs then future lavish boxsets will be put in jeopardy. It was basically our point that the boxset is already guaranteed to make $140,000 (per the petition - thus “everyone” isn’t going to stream it) and that number skyrockets by who knows how many magnitudes when/if an actual marketing campaign starts. Also, at the moment we can still choose to buy or stream a plethora of previous archival releases - thus your admitted main topic of supporting an archival release to support future projects doesn’t just encompass FFs but instead an entire broad range of archival releases that are actually available to be purchased right now (unlike FFs). So in that context, yes I still completely stand by my point that the topic you found most relevant regarding streaming deserves its own thread because the topic has (and deserves) the potential to expand into a much broader conversation that isn’t limited to the confines of the Feel Flows boxset.

Now, if we want to move the goalposts and say that we should be discussing the unfortunate alternatives if FFs does not get released before December 31, 2020 then I am all for that...because I think people should realize why we are trying to focus our efforts on getting this thing released: it is my understanding that compiling and creating Feel Flows has already been paid for by BRI. If a lot of the contents of this set get released via a copyright dump, then yes the project would likely have to change. But how likely is BRI going to want to fund a new/different product if the one they previously funded got stuck in some non-release limbo that ended in a copyright dump?

1- I introduced a series of hypotheticals to illustrate the validity of the streaming vs buying idea being a relevant, on topic point.

2- I didn’t introduce that point, Alan Boyd did in 2018. I was noting it is relevant to the FF discussion.

3- signatures don’t equal sales, especially when we have posters suggesting that paying for a streaming subscription counts as supporting archive releases.

4- I’m not interested in a streaming thread. I’m interested in how it’s relevant to archive releases and this FF topic.

5- the policing of the thread is the main reason this tangent is going on so long. Just let the convos flow, it keeps the thread active and moving.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 19, 2020, 01:06:51 PM
I should apologize for being a jackass earlier. I'm dealing with challenges of these times the same way a lot of us likely are -- that is, not well at all.

I appreciate this band and care about it deeply. I believe in supporting its members. Hell, I even bought a physical copy of "Unleash the Love," if it makes a difference to Mike.

But I also find this kind of inter-band drama -- still -- around releases of music recorded a half-century ago profoundly dispiriting. Everyone here is grousing at one another because we're not able to do the one thing we _all_ want to do, which is buy the frigging boxed set already.

Bless you all and love and mercy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 19, 2020, 02:04:15 PM
Great post, Wirestone. Cheers, Donny. Hope everyone is having a great weekend.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 19, 2020, 02:34:08 PM
Hi Wirestone, what you wrote wasn’t too bad, though I don’t think anyone wanted to make you feel guilty or thinks you should.
Nonetheless to come back on to deliver this friendly message is a measure of the decency we’ve seen from you on these boards over the years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 19, 2020, 02:34:54 PM
Whilst I am slightly reluctant to post this - it's basic common sense that if 1,400 people pay $100 each for a physical box set, that does not amount to $140,000 in profit, as has been assumed, implied or inferred by some here. - There's a difference between profit and revenue, and there's a difference between wholesale and retail. Both of those differences work against that kind of result that is suggested.

And we have been told, and I think should accept, that this whole thing isn't really about economics anyway. These guys wouldn't notice the difference in their bank balances as a result of whether or not this is released. And it's BRI, not any label causing the hold up here.

Therefore it is support of a kind other than financial that is the matter at stake here, and that will, if anything will, turn the tide.

As Forrest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that".



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 19, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
I should apologize for being a jackass earlier. I'm dealing with challenges of these times the same way a lot of us likely are -- that is, not well at all.

I appreciate this band and care about it deeply. I believe in supporting its members. Hell, I even bought a physical copy of "Unleash the Love," if it makes a difference to Mike.

But I also find this kind of inter-band drama -- still -- around releases of music recorded a half-century ago profoundly dispiriting. Everyone here is grousing at one another because we're not able to do the one thing we _all_ want to do, which is buy the frigging boxed set already.

Bless you all and love and mercy.

Kudos to you and this post - I’m getting too hotheaded in here. But I’d like to see us all do better.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 19, 2020, 02:53:50 PM
Whilst I am slightly reluctant to post this - it's basic common sense that if 1,400 people pay $100 each for a physical box set, that does not amount to $140,000 in profit, as has been assumed, implied or inferred by some here. - There's a difference between profit and revenue, and there's a difference between wholesale and retail. Both of those differences work against that kind of result that is suggested.

And we have been told, and I think should accept, that this whole thing isn't really about economics anyway. These guys wouldn't notice the difference in their bank balances as a result of whether or not this is released. And it's BRI, not any label causing the hold up here.

Therefore it is support of a kind other than financial that is the matter at stake here, and that will, if anything will, turn the tide.

As Forrest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that".



I’m sure they will sell significantly more than 1400 units (I would assume at least 10x that) of the box if it’s released. But I also assume that a good chunk of those who signed the petition will not buy it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 19, 2020, 03:07:47 PM
Whilst I am slightly reluctant to post this - it's basic common sense that if 1,400 people pay $100 each for a physical box set, that does not amount to $140,000 in profit, as has been assumed, implied or inferred by some here. - There's a difference between profit and revenue, and there's a difference between wholesale and retail. Both of those differences work against that kind of result that is suggested.

And we have been told, and I think should accept, that this whole thing isn't really about economics anyway. These guys wouldn't notice the difference in their bank balances as a result of whether or not this is released. And it's BRI, not any label causing the hold up here.

Therefore it is support of a kind other than financial that is the matter at stake here, and that will, if anything will, turn the tide.

As Forrest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that".



You're absolutely right. I cannot can see this having anything to do directly with how much money this box would generate. That is not causing a giant media blackout from all of the bandmembers regarding the set.  This I believe has everything to do with the box being used as a pawn for some other scheme. Think about who we are dealing with, and the history.

To assume otherwise would imply that Mike isn't the type of person who would want to get something out of a situation if he could. That he would just leave things he deeply values simply on the table.  That doesn't seem particularly logical to me.

If you want to believe Mike has nothing to do with this, you would have to believe that he doesn't want to write with Brian again enough to scheme for it, and that as the 60th anniversary approaches and surely his last chance to write with Brian looms, that he wouldn't try to hold something hostage in order to get that to happen, if such a situation just happened to drop into his lap. You would have to think that somehow out of character for him. An added bonus of reuniting with Brian again is to improve Mike's own understandably putrid standing in the media again after what happened in February. The optics would be "look everybody, everything's OK with Brian and me now, Brian is even writing with me again!"  And mike's best case scenario hypothetical successful collaboration would prove to the world once and for all that Brian needs Mike in order to write successful hits. Tell me that isn't exactly what Mike seems to want in this world?

I think he justifies all of his actions based on how unjustly he feels he was treated with the songwriting credit decades ago. Everything is an effort to continually correct his minimized public perception which he blames on that.  He's never shown any indication in interviews since winning the early 1990s lawsuit that he has "gotten over it". Which I can understand, only to a point.

But I think either he will eventually realize that his efforts to get exactly what he wants are futile, and/or perhaps hopefully he could be convinced that FF's release is simply in his best interest. Or maybe Brian will just give in and work with Mike again. Brian is historically way too forgiving a person for his own good in my estimation (even including Landy it would seem), yet of course he has people around him looking out for his own best interests as well.

I have little doubt that if the truth of what's going on with the box ever comes out, the optics will be really, really bad.

I do think fans should keep working to get this traction in other media outlets, as well as contacting as many of the band associates as possible to perhaps get somebody to tweet about it. It's only a matter time before we are better able to surmise what's happening here. I really don't believe all the parties involved can remain silent forever. IMHO, if anything, the set might get released purely out of the parties not wanting the negative press should the reasons for the holdup get made public.

I should add… Another piece of circumstantial evidence that seems to fit in with my theory that this is about Mike trying to force some sort of reunion activity, is that Al recently responded with "suggest to Brian and Mike!" to a fan on social media who asked Al if a final BBs reunion album could happen. If anything, perhaps Al thinks that enough vocal fan interest in a reunion would eventually cause any behind-the-scenes Brian/Mike stalemates to subside, and sadly I find it difficult to believe that this box's limbo isn't part of that whole equation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 19, 2020, 03:16:29 PM
Whilst I am slightly reluctant to post this - it's basic common sense that if 1,400 people pay $100 each for a physical box set, that does not amount to $140,000 in profit, as has been assumed, implied or inferred by some here. - There's a difference between profit and revenue, and there's a difference between wholesale and retail. Both of those differences work against that kind of result that is suggested.

And we have been told, and I think should accept, that this whole thing isn't really about economics anyway. These guys wouldn't notice the difference in their bank balances as a result of whether or not this is released. And it's BRI, not any label causing the hold up here.

Therefore it is support of a kind other than financial that is the matter at stake here, and that will, if anything will, turn the tide.

As Forrest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that".



Okay, I was making a definite generalization and I know it wouldn’t be an exact $140,000. My point was that they will be making more than the $4000 “profit” that 1,000,000 listens will get you on Spotify. Next time I’ll be a heck of a lot more specific.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on September 19, 2020, 03:33:47 PM
Just want to mention that I have a friend who hosts a radio program in Connecticut who I’ve been talking with regarding what has been going on with the Feel Flows box set. His show airs biweekly on Fridays and he plays lots of 60s and 70s music, including The Beach Boys, along with new music. On Friday, September 4th, he made mention of the box set on-air. He spoke briefly about what it is, that it is being held up for unknown reasons, and that he believes that is important for the decision makers in charge to find a way to release it. While he didn’t mention the Change.org petition, the fact that he mentioned that the set exists to all his listeners I think is noteworthy, since it is yet another way to help spread the word that the set exists and is currently being held up. I’m sure regional radio show mentions such as this one, combined with all the social media posts are helping spread awareness about what is going on.

For anyone interested, the show is “Connections on WPKN”, which airs on WPKN in Connecticut. You can listen to the show online via the WPKN website. The September 4th episode can be listened to here: http://archives.wpkn.org/bookmarks/listen/301545/spontaneous-connections-new-and-vintage-music- and the mention occurs right around the 2 hour and 15 minute mark.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on September 19, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
I will say, more to the point, that Rolling Stone or Pitchfork could do something pretty tough about the box and get the broader music community riled up. Of course, that's the definition of a high-risk, high-reward proposition.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 19, 2020, 03:58:51 PM
I will say, more to the point, that Rolling Stone or Pitchfork could do something pretty tough about the box and get the broader music community riled up. Of course, that's the definition of a high-risk, high-reward proposition.

"Mike Love tries to force Brian Wilson to write with him, as he holds hostage the music of Brian's late brothers to get what he wants" might be a rough headline, but it also might not be far from the truth. And yes, no telling how that would play out, but it'd be risky as hell.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 19, 2020, 04:20:45 PM
The effort to release Feel Flows has been mentioned on Wikipedia. My article is their source. Word being spread!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 19, 2020, 04:44:09 PM
Thanks for writing that piece, Joel! Glad it’s making the rounds.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 19, 2020, 04:46:29 PM
Thanks for writing that piece, Joel! Glad it’s making the rounds.

+1. Thanks Joel!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 19, 2020, 05:58:29 PM
That’s awesome!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 19, 2020, 06:28:40 PM
To be honest, if some kind of ‘forcing of hands’ is in play over a 60th (and I’m doubtful) then I find absolutely nothing to ‘Celebrate’.
Actually, has there been anything worthy of a group celebration since 2012? Not for me.  ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 20, 2020, 01:36:56 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

My own fan knowledge/scholarship tells me you could probably look at that old "Brother Rarities Proposed Bonus Tracks" set of discs from 2000 to get just an inkling of an idea of some of the stuff that could be on the set.

I'd wager we'd get one or more iteration of "This Whole World" including that extra long backing track on that "Brother Rarities" test disc. The demo and alternate of "'Til I Die" would seem likely. The alternate "Add Some Music To Your Day."

I know, these are all obvious.

I was going to say we should use that to create a bare minimum list/discussion of what could come out. And I plan to edit that into this post in a second. EDIT: See three posts down.

The effort to release Feel Flows has been mentioned on Wikipedia. My article is their source. Word being spread!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows

Thanks Joel!! Your article is also used as a source for this info on Wiki’s (main) BB article/page as well!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 20, 2020, 01:43:41 PM
Of course it is not about the % of signees who will actually buy. It's about generating and expanding awareness of this situation and having a strategy to apply whatever pressure is possible upon those who are holding this up.

It's fine to have tangents in the thread, it's just important that they don't circle back to other tangents that have already been proven to be malicious attempts at distraction.

Rab's surmise about what would need to be done to FEEL FLOWS if only a copyright dump happens at the end of the year is the elephant in the room here, because it points up that the only way that question can be answered is if the track listing surfaces. Then we know a great deal more about the impacts.

I think podcast folks such as the one myonlysunshine just referenced should be encouraged to focus on such an approach, referencing Howie's assessment of the project. They should be supplied with some talking points about the music that has emerged from that period over the years to extrapolate from Howie's description.

Wirestone, you are right on it in terms of who should be bringing out the media pressure regarding this. But (again, apologies for the equivalent of playing "Be My Baby" 87 times in a row...) that requires the track listing--those guys need all the info they can have at their disposal to take this to the limit.

CD, the "Mike holds FF hostage" scenario is a compelling (and harrowing) hypothesis, with irresistibly lurid overtones. But the big media folks will have to actually confirm that such is the case before that headline will be unfurled. The other headline that comes to mind is" "79 GOING ON 12."

Joel, we all REALLY appreciate your efforts!

All Summer Long, we are READY for that list...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 20, 2020, 02:28:35 PM
Of course it is not about the % of signees who will actually buy. It's about generating and expanding awareness of this situation and having a strategy to apply whatever pressure is possible upon those who are holding this up.

It's fine to have tangents in the thread, it's just important that they don't circle back to other tangents that have already been proven to be malicious attempts at distraction.

Rab's surmise about what would need to be done to FEEL FLOWS if only a copyright dump happens at the end of the year is the elephant in the room here, because it points up that the only way that question can be answered is if the track listing surfaces. Then we know a great deal more about the impacts.

I think podcast folks such as the one myonlysunshine just referenced should be encouraged to focus on such an approach, referencing Howie's assessment of the project. They should be supplied with some talking points about the music that has emerged from that period over the years to extrapolate from Howie's description.

Wirestone, you are right on it in terms of who should be bringing out the media pressure regarding this. But (again, apologies for the equivalent of playing "Be My Baby" 87 times in a row...) that requires the track listing--those guys need all the info they can have at their disposal to take this to the limit.

CD, the "Mike holds FF hostage" scenario is a compelling (and harrowing) hypothesis, with irresistibly lurid overtones. But the big media folks will have to actually confirm that such is the case before that headline will be unfurled. The other headline that comes to mind is" "79 GOING ON 12."

Joel, we all REALLY appreciate your efforts!

All Summer Long, we are READY for that list...

This is true. No media company is going to state something as fact without having their ducks in a row.

Of course, it's entirely possible they might be able to state some speculation based on circumstantial evidence, historical research and educated guesswork as long as they don't state things as fact.

In any case, your headline of "79 GOING ON 12" is spot on.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 20, 2020, 03:14:46 PM
Thanks for the support Don Malcolm!! As a younger/newer fan, I haven’t heard a lot of what has already surfaced on older releases and boots so I’m eagerly supporting, hoping for, and awaiting this box set for many reasons.

So considering what we know exists, there are 20 masters from the original albums plus:

- I’m Going Your Way - As others have mentioned in this thread (I just can’t rememner who), the 2019 EP says this is alternate version, so perhaps there is a more final (faded or otherdubbed or with a final vocal) version in the vaults. The Brother Rarities set indicates a version with a running time of 1:53 exists; maybe this is a master because the 2019 “alternate vocal [(OD?)] take” runs to 2:36 including a session dialogue intro and breakdown at the end of the Take.
- Carnival (Over the Waves) - obviously the “master” was officially released almost a year ago, but it’s possible that there may also be some vocal WIP takes, complete and/or incomplete.
- Slip On Through - An early version was released on the EP, but there’s likely to be alternate takes from the final version. I believe the Sunflower ESQ said that the final master was re-recorded at a later session from this early EP version? Maybe Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have some alternate mixes that show Dennis’ guitar overdub on the master?
- San Miguel - At least the remix that Mark Linett already premiered in that 2-hour interview on YouTube.
- Cotton Fields (single version) - At least the remix that Mark Linett already premiered in that interview.
- possibly at least one of the songs Fred Vail and Brian cut for Cows in the Pasture.
-  Susie Cincinnati - original 1970 single mix according to the shelved Brother Rarities set. Aejitzsche and/or c-man have also discussed hearing the backing track for both versions recorded, of which the second was overdubbbed and became the master. At least 3 possible tracks there.
- Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin’ In An Aeroplane) - original 1969/1970 version with Al’s falsetto (that he replaced in 1998 with a lower vocal) if he didn’t object to its release now.
- Take A Lead Off Your Feet - original mix
- Lady (Fallin’ In Love) - “previously unreleased stereo mix” mentioned on the Brother Rarities set, unless this was the version used for Summer Love Songs.
- Sound of Free - from the original masters, if it has been discovered since 2013.
- I Just Got My Pay - “original mix” from the Brother Rarities set.
- When Girls Get Together - original 1970 mix, plus the instrumental version slated for Reverberation
- Add Some Music To Your Day - with alternate lyrics and vocals from the Rarities set.
- This Whole World - long version with alternate vocals from the Rarities set. Maybe some vocal-only alternate takes/mixes? Maybe some of the original session that aejitzsche recreated the guitars from for us a few months ago. Supposedly full Eastern Airlines version.
- Tears in the Morning - alternate lyrics/vocals version from the Rarities set.
- Got to Know the Woman - at least maybe the mono mix slated for Reverberation. Maybe a new mix showing Dennis’ guitar overdub? Maybe a version including Doug Dragon’s organ that was removed?
- It’s About Time - maybe instrumental only mix or drums and percussion only mix?
- All I Wanna Do - possibilities are endless. At least Backing track and/or a cappella mixes.
- Forever - Again, possibilities endless. At least backing track and/or a cappella mixes. Maybe the original version before Mike’s vocals were added.
- Cool, Cool Water - possibilities are endless. Alternate a cappella and/or instrumental alternate mixes showing pre- and post-overdubs, the more organic and more water-synth versions. Coca-Cola version?
- Break Away - a cappella and/or instrumental. Maybe without the acoustics to show the dueling lead guitars?
- Celebrate the News - a cappella and/or instrumental.
- Back Home 1970 - alternate takes?
- My Solution
- Seasons in the Sun
- Soulful Old Man Sunshine - maybe more has been found?
- Games Two Can Play - original pre-Adult Child mix if one exists?
- Maybe the recordings from Dennis’ first solo album? Discussed elsewhere but I can’t find the full list at the moment, but I’ll look later and edit again.
- Barnyard Blues - Backing track? Supposedly there’s also a piano demo?
- Good Time - original mix.
- You Never Give Me Your Money - Piano jam after a Good Time take.
- Big Sur - 4/4 version.
- ‘Til I Die - piano demo plus alternate positive lyrics version. Vocals only?
- WIBNTLA - maybe backing track only?
- Don’t Go Near the Water - a cappella mix?
- Long Promised Road - alternate mixes? Maybe whatever started the basic track (Carl on acoustic guitar or keys?)
- Disney Girls - a cappella mix?
- Student Demonstration Time - Instrumental only? Maybe the master without the Moog siren and/or bullhorn vocal effects?
- Feel Flows - did someone say the master runs longer or did I just invent that? Regardless, instrumental only or a cappella mixes?
- Lookin’ At Tomorrow - The Rarities set mentions an original unphased mix. Maybe also some Al vocal/guitar basic track takes?
 - A Day in the Life of a Tree - Jack Reilly’s vocal only? :lol Maybe an instrumental only mix that switches to vocals-only in the coda?
- Surf’s Up - Vocals only from the Rarities set. Maybe the 1971 track?
- Ol’ Movie - from the Rarities set.
- Awake - “Brian demo” from the Rarities set.
- Fourth of July - “original mix” and “alternate version” from the Rarities set.
- Happy Birthday Brian - from the Rarities set.
- Hawaii Song - from the Rarities set.
- Won’t You Tell Me - written by Murry and Rick Henn. Brian and Carl duet. (If it still exists)
- Sail On, Sailor - Brian piano demo and/or “songwriting tape with Van Dyke.” Maybe a 1971 version with a Carl vocal if it (still) exists?
- Telephone Backgrounds (On A Clear Day) - Carl Moog demo(?) if I recall correctly
- I’ve Got A Friend - Backing track
- Maybe some recordings for CATP? I feel like that would be too late for this project and be a 1971/2021 CE release, but that’s just my opinion. I have NO inside sources or info.

Live?
Maybe the 1969 Paris show remixed and remastered by Mark Linett and Alan Boyd? Maybe Brian with the band standing in for Mike in February? Maybe a tape from the Whisky - apparently Bruce says he has one? Maybe the show where Ricky Fataar joined the backing band before joining as a full member? (though this would probably be better as a 2021 CE or part of a CATP release/box or an In Concert release/box)

EDIT: Apologies for how visually ugly this looks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 20, 2020, 04:07:09 PM
Since Dennis seemed to be in the habit of recording piano/vocal demos in '68, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more of those to come. Also since the version of I'm Going Your Way released last year was labelled an 'alternative' take, I do wonder what the 'final' take would be. It can the the bootlegged one where it's single tracked, because the lyrics don't seem finalised there and overall he doesn't sing it as neatly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 20, 2020, 05:31:30 PM
To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?

My own fan knowledge/scholarship tells me you could probably look at that old "Brother Rarities Proposed Bonus Tracks" set of discs from 2000 to get just an inkling of an idea of some of the stuff that could be on the set.

I'd wager we'd get one or more iteration of "This Whole World" including that extra long backing track on that "Brother Rarities" test disc. The demo and alternate of "'Til I Die" would seem likely. The alternate "Add Some Music To Your Day."

I know, these are all obvious.

I was going to say we should use that to create a bare minimum list/discussion of what could come out. And I plan to edit that into this post in a second. EDIT: See three posts down.

The effort to release Feel Flows has been mentioned on Wikipedia. My article is their source. Word being spread!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows

Thanks Joel!! Your article is also used as a source for this info on Wiki’s (main) BB article/page as well!!
Wow!!! There's a "further reading" mention in the Wikipedia article on the Surf's Up album as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on September 20, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
Thanks for that list, All Summer Long. Some combination of any of these would be incredible! I'll be gutted if this doesn't come out.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 22, 2020, 07:49:40 AM
On Brian's FB post this morning of a picture of Smile tapes with the caption "SMiLE", Howie replied "FEEL FLOWS".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 22, 2020, 08:56:36 AM
I don't understand it. In the last few days there have been posts on the Facebook page with the usual archival video clips and photos, but also a promotion for an ESQ giveaway contest and now a post about Smile.

It feels like there is an elephant in the room, along with an entire zoo if not the entirety of Noah's ark. Seriously, promoting another sweepstakes giveaway and now a Smile post while the one topic buzzing around the fanbase doesn't seem to be on the radar?

I don't understand it. What else can fans do at this point? It feels like nothing, except enter another contest and post hashtags.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 22, 2020, 09:02:11 AM
On Brian's FB post this morning of a picture of Smile tapes with the caption "SMiLE", Howie replied "FEEL FLOWS".

I don't understand it. In the last few days there have been posts on the Facebook page with the usual archival video clips and photos, but also a promotion for an ESQ giveaway contest and now a post about Smile.

It feels like there is an elephant in the room, along with an entire zoo if not the entirety of Noah's ark. Seriously, promoting another sweepstakes giveaway and now a Smile post while the one topic buzzing around the fanbase doesn't seem to be on the radar?

I don't understand it. What else can fans do at this point? It feels like nothing, except enter another contest and post hashtags.

Doesn't at all seem right at all. And I'm glad that we're all here still asking questions. Like we keep saying, this is the last major boxset this band will likely ever release, and there is silence all around.

Also, it appears that Howie's "FEEL FLOWS" comment is gone. Either they deleted it or he deleted it (at least, I can't find it).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on September 22, 2020, 09:16:37 AM
At this point, I can't imagine they haven't noticed that no matter what they post to social media, the comments that tend to get the most replies and the most likes/loves, are those in reference to the Feel Flows set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 22, 2020, 10:05:05 AM
It’s still there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 22, 2020, 10:19:34 AM
On Brian's FB post this morning of a picture of Smile tapes with the caption "SMiLE", Howie replied "FEEL FLOWS".

I don't understand it. In the last few days there have been posts on the Facebook page with the usual archival video clips and photos, but also a promotion for an ESQ giveaway contest and now a post about Smile.

It feels like there is an elephant in the room, along with an entire zoo if not the entirety of Noah's ark. Seriously, promoting another sweepstakes giveaway and now a Smile post while the one topic buzzing around the fanbase doesn't seem to be on the radar?

I don't understand it. What else can fans do at this point? It feels like nothing, except enter another contest and post hashtags.

Doesn't at all seem right at all. And I'm glad that we're all here still asking questions. Like we keep saying, this is the last major boxset this band will likely ever release, and there is silence all around.

Also, it appears that Howie's "FEEL FLOWS" comment is gone. Either they deleted it or he deleted it (at least, I can't find it).

I don't understand promoting giveaway contests and Smile during all this, but what can we do except ask questions and post hashtags.

At some point that's going to get tedious too, if it already hasn't.

It doesn't leave a positive feeling in the air, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 22, 2020, 10:24:23 AM
On Brian's FB post this morning of a picture of Smile tapes with the caption "SMiLE", Howie replied "FEEL FLOWS".

I don't understand it. In the last few days there have been posts on the Facebook page with the usual archival video clips and photos, but also a promotion for an ESQ giveaway contest and now a post about Smile.

It feels like there is an elephant in the room, along with an entire zoo if not the entirety of Noah's ark. Seriously, promoting another sweepstakes giveaway and now a Smile post while the one topic buzzing around the fanbase doesn't seem to be on the radar?

I don't understand it. What else can fans do at this point? It feels like nothing, except enter another contest and post hashtags.

Doesn't at all seem right at all. And I'm glad that we're all here still asking questions. Like we keep saying, this is the last major boxset this band will likely ever release, and there is silence all around.

Also, it appears that Howie's "FEEL FLOWS" comment is gone. Either they deleted it or he deleted it (at least, I can't find it).

I don't understand promoting giveaway contests and Smile during all this, but what can we do except ask questions and post hashtags.

At some point that's going to get tedious too, if it already hasn't.

It doesn't leave a positive feeling in the air, that's for sure.

Keep in mind, if one zooms in on BW's photo of the Smile tapes, the "cool, cool water" tape can be seen, which of course connects back to Feel Flows via Sunflower.

I'd be hard-pressed to think that CCW tape being posted is an intentional wink wink to the fans, but I want to believe.

I think it must be very awkward for them to try to move forward posting random stuff and keeping a social media presence while ignoring the FF elephant in the room. I don't envy whoever is running those accounts.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 22, 2020, 10:56:26 AM
I'm mentioning the FF box set again in my next music column, with the updates we all know about, including the new Wikipedia entries.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 22, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Brian posted the Surfer Girl album cover the other day on Instagram. Sounds crazy but here me out. If you zoom into the cover, who do you see? Mike Love? And Mike is fourth from left. And of course it needs four votes. So we can assume that they have three votes and need Mike the fourth. Now of course, Mike Love is an anagram of .... 300 words later ... and that's how Brian's social media team posting for the Surfer Girl anniversary explains the entire Feel Flows boxset situation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 24, 2020, 12:12:11 PM
Just wanting to keep this discussion moving, so  looking back at the listing of songs that was posted a page or so back - that covers only the tracks widely known to exist - I have assumed all along that although the archives have already been mined fairly deeply for this era, there must be more tracks we don't know about, but which would probably not be the bulk of the set.

I'm thinking there's maybe 3 disc's worth of the 2 albums with alternates, a Cappella mixes, instrumental versions demos etc of known songs. Say 1 disc worth of previously unknown tracks, recordings, demos etc, and that leaves 1 disc for live material.

I must say that my first thought from Al's comment about the live show - I think he said a show he couldn't remember doing - was the Big Sur show from 1970 (one song of which was released on the Ode records various artists compilation). There's also the possibility it was the Central Park concert from 1971 or some other show altogether.

How do people see the track list being structured?

For me it'd be
Disc 1 - Sunflower + alternates
Disc 2 - Surf's Up + alternates
Disc 3 - [maybe] an earlier Sunflower or Add Some Music rejected album master + more outtakes
Disc 4 - session material + the rarest (prev. unbooted) tracks + demos
Disc 5 - 1 complete live show, disc fleshed out with rare and interesting other live material.

Which live shows are the best candidates for the live disc?

BTW - if you are someone who is in the know about the track listing, as much as we'd love you to spill the beans, obviously thrre's no actual expectation of that. Wild speculation is de rigueur here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 24, 2020, 01:06:16 PM
I have a strong feeling there are at least a few newly discovered songs on there. Purely speculation but my gut is telling me there is, and Lord knows it’s too big to ignore lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tord on September 24, 2020, 02:05:36 PM
The petition has reached 1500 signatures.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 24, 2020, 02:42:01 PM
When (NOT "if") news finally breaks that this set is finally being released, they may need to change the title of the set to "Celebrate The News"  8) i'm sure that great  song will be represented on here as well.

Ironic that the FF box set, named after a song with a title that refers to a Jack Riley lyric about ejaculation (not kidding, either, look it up!) has had the brakes pumped on it. Literally the song is about the wonderful joy of release, yet someone in this band wants to block the joy of fans for some surely demented BS reasons. Ego, ego, ego. In one way or another. May the party blocking this set out of pettiness have a flaccid existence for the rest of their days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on September 24, 2020, 04:58:13 PM
I still think it should be called "It's About Time":)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 24, 2020, 05:50:14 PM
They wait any longer , they need to change it to “It’s about damn time” :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 24, 2020, 06:14:49 PM
Maybe the set should be called Coitus Interruptus...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 24, 2020, 07:53:50 PM
I was gonna make a Dennis joke but that’d be more appropriate for the ‘69 set.

Huh huh huh I said “69” huh huh huh 🤔


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 25, 2020, 06:13:40 PM
I just hope that they do what they're damn sure of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 25, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
I just hope that they do what they're damn sure of.

I'm damn sure of the likely fact that Brian and Al are not behind this block (plenty of circumstantial evidence of such), and I'm damn sure that Mike's history of ego-driven, revisionist history hijinks such as delaying the Pet Sounds Sessions box are things that actually provably happened, and nobody should consider that history irrelevant when thinking about why the FF set is likely in its current state of hell. Cannot understand people bending themselves into pretzels to dismiss that history.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 25, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
I think that was supposed to be a Tears in the Morning joke 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 25, 2020, 10:52:16 PM
I think that was supposed to be a Tears in the Morning joke 😎

Yeah I know :) I'm just venting as I'm bugged at our old Mike for jeopardizing the existence of some of the greatest music of the 20th century :/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 26, 2020, 10:49:00 AM

Anyone know anything about Hawaii Song?

And Ol Movie = early version of Spark In The Dark or is it Funky Pretty?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on September 26, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Hawaii clocks in at 4:05. First 3 minutes are a shaker out of one speaker and piano and strings. At 3 minute mark shaker stops and background oh and ahs are sung at end there are some words spoken and it ends with the words is that it.

Ol movie is 4:15 minutes long. Starts out with piano and strings from middle of cuddle up  at 0:38 second mark dennis adds ahs and ohs. At around 1:50 mark sounds like flutes come in. Then more dennis ohs and ahs until the end. Early cuddle up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 26, 2020, 09:13:23 PM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 26, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
Thank you *so*much for the update.  The idea of what Dennis’s material must sound like is spinning around in my head right now. *If* you can say anything, is there anything from Brian that was recently discovered?

I sincerely hope that all opposing “issues” get resolved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 26, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.





Wow. I am very grateful just to hear the description. To say that fans would love for this music to be released is an incredible understatement. Tantalizing doesn't even begin to describe.

And this being Record Store Day, everybody who is a fan of this band should be furious and make some noise that this set remains MIA. FF's absence is also screwing over vulnerable independent record stores during a very trying time, who could've sold many copies today. But I'm sure whoever is doing the blocking couldn't give two sh*ts about that whatsoever.

That Mike goes on silly TV shows to promote car-bound concerts, while ignoring the existence of this material, should make fans question what's happening here. Did anyone watch that recent interview? All Mike talked about is John Stamos and Mark freakin' McGrath. You know, the important stuff. The true geniuses associated with this band's legacy.

What a gutwrenching slap in the face it must be to the children of the late members of this band to witness someone in power who must be shortsighted enough to try and block/kill the set in this described incarnation. There is no way I can conceive that some of the kids aren't extraordinarily unhappy with what's going on. No way.

Nobody wants an altered version of this set.
Nobody wants this stuff awkwardly integrated with "new" material with "famous" guest stars.
Hell. No.

The demand is there for FF as described. Fans will be thrilled with the music, all of the bandmembers will get positive recognition and money. What an absolutely absurd situation this is.

Any potential other "new" material or desires to go a "different direction" with the brand can be completely satisfied by simply releasing other material in its own form on its own; FF does not need to be messed with. FF will simply positively raise awareness of the brand, and good reviews for the music of ALL members are a good thing for ALL members. For cryin out loud.

Release the set. Please. Money is ready!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on September 26, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.

"...to lose that would truly be a sin..."

"...I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered."

This is painful. A fucking tragedy. Especially if the set is taken in a less expansive direction from the one already submitted for release. Just the thought of altering that, lessening that, denying it's exposure would be a very sad result. Perhaps a bunt instead of a grand slam. Thanks for always battling for what's good for the Beach Boys Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 26, 2020, 10:53:48 PM
Thanks man.
You'd think by now it'd be easier to do so.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2020, 12:36:18 AM
Be that as it may, grateful as f*** that you’re there battling for the Beach Boys’ legacy, even with all the roadblocks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 12:58:08 AM
Be that as it may, grateful as f*** that you’re there battling for the Beach Boys’ legacy, even with all the roadblocks.

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on September 27, 2020, 03:12:26 AM
Just saying, if this set winds up on a USB stick given to me in an alleyway, I'll PayPal you the asking price Howie and you can split it among the deserving parties.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 27, 2020, 03:42:44 AM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.







Thanks for your input, Howie!
I may read too much into this, but are you implying that it is the Dennis material that is the course cause of the holdup (i. e. someone not wanting it on the release)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 27, 2020, 05:53:10 AM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.


Man that's a killer - I'd pay stupid amounts of money to hear that unheard Dennis material. Let's hope things get sorted out. It'll be a true insult to his memory as an artist if this material stays in the vault because of some petty conflict 50 years down the line (and nearly 30 years after his passing).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 06:35:24 AM
The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.







Thanks for your input, Howie!
I may read too much into this, but are you implying that it is the Dennis material that is the course of the holdup (i. e. someone not wanting it on the release)?

I, for one, would never underestimate the lengths that those who are petty and jealous would do in order to preserve their egos.

Turns out Mike's used car salesman history revisionism (or if you are to believe it, perhaps simply the innocent ignorant historical revisionism by his record label) wasn't just wrong by four years, it was wrong by a *decade*. Never forget:

(https://i.imgur.com/ccxRXWt.jpg)

Good thing those stickers didn't last long, because there were more important stickers that soon took precedence:

(https://i.imgur.com/vKPOEP7.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 27, 2020, 06:41:14 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 27, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
I'm sure Mike personally handled the sticking of promotional stickers onto his solo album


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 27, 2020, 06:57:24 AM
Just to be clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 27, 2020, 07:04:28 AM
Just to me clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.

Is there much Bruce stuff?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 27, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 27, 2020, 07:23:28 AM
Just to me clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.

Thank you, Howie!
There’s a possibility that the box set could be released this year?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 27, 2020, 07:35:50 AM
Given recent rumblings, I get the sense we are reaching make or break behind the scenes. Not surprising I guess now we are approaching the final quarter of the year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on September 27, 2020, 08:36:28 AM
I am very glad to hear that the reason is not the inclusion of DW material.  At least that strips away one layer of possible petty behavior.  Really hope that it comes out.  If anyone out there knows any other avenue by which we can, as fans, nudge this along, please let us know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on September 27, 2020, 08:38:52 AM
What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on September 27, 2020, 08:54:53 AM
That would be a tremendous shame, and of course so frustrating when they had it in mind to get it right the first time.

In this case I suppose the “revamped” version would still be somewhat worthwhile. The question is what would happen to this Dennis material and similar. Would it find its way out on a grey label release or locked away in the vault forever?

How much damage could the “wrong people” do to material from this era?

Great to hear from Jon and Howie this Sunday, albeit concerning. How anyone can question the past records and judgement of Alan Boyd, Mark L, Howie and Jon (not sure the level of involvement from Jon on this particular set) is be strange to me at least.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 08:57:34 AM
That is distressing news indeed. What possible reason could any person in power have for wanting to revamp a set to strip it of some of its best material, most especially the great DW music like that, unless they feel somehow some material falls too closely into the category of a "solo" thing and not enough of a "BBs" thing. Misguided nonsense about "branding".

The amount of grief that another Wilson brother, Brian, had to endure for Pet Sounds being too much of a "solo" project makes me sick, and of course look how that album - which very fortunately stayed on track - became far and away the most lauded and famous music in the entire catalog.

More people will spend their hard-earned pandemic dollars on this set if it includes the DW material. Period. One would have to be delusional to think otherwise.

I hope some other people on the inside can speak up about what's going on, or at minimum can at least publicly voice their immense displeasure at the thought of DW music being squandered. I can't imagine something as softball as just saying that would be hard for them to do.  

It doesn't take much thinking to imagine more than a handful of specific people with an online presence who must certainly be very upset at the thought. Why stay silent?  If ever there was a time to speak up, now would be it. This would be a great injustice to DW's legacy, not to mention the legacy of the whole band and brand.

Mutilating FFs by drastically cutting it down, yet expanding Unleash the Love to 2 full CDs of drek. Sounds like a perfectly logical and normal series of occurrences with this band. The band *and* the brand CAN DO BETTER than allowing this travesty to unfold.

I'm sure Dennis is looking down from above, and would like to kick the person responsible for trying to mutilate this set in the balls.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on September 27, 2020, 09:23:27 AM

Great to hear from Jon and Howie this Sunday, albeit concerning. How anyone can question the past records and judgement of Alan Boyd, Mark L, Howie and Jon (not sure the level of involvement from Jon on this particular set) is be strange to me at least.
I'm just a fan advocating for my friends hard work which I know cannot be improved upon by anyone else. As always I remain independent of the machine.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 27, 2020, 09:30:54 AM
Just to me clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.




Alright! Thanks for your hard work, Howie, and best wishes that it will get out the way it should be.


EDIT: After the commercial succes of P.O.B.'s re-release you'd expect them to be open for more Dennis material. IIRC they did indeed put his "Fallin' in love" on the lovesongs compilation soon after that and I thought POB's re-release was the reason for that.
No one of the Boys even seems to mention the commercial and critical succes of the re-relase, when they get asked about Dennis' work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 27, 2020, 10:41:02 AM
That's right folks, nearly an album's worth of Dennis '71 solo album-ish material is just ONE PART of a large set of amazing material.

Hopefully with Howie once again stepping in here to explain things,  the occasional skepticism and downplaying of calling for this set's release can stop. 

Thanks Howie for continuing to work on this and for explaining how to put this set in perspective. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 27, 2020, 12:43:55 PM
Thank you Howie (and Jon) for the updates and additional info. Hope we get to hear it all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on September 27, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
Thanks for that list, All Summer Long. Some combination of any of these would be incredible! I'll be gutted if this doesn't come out.



For the record, I wouldn’t have been able to compile without jackjachman’s thread:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25249.0.html

I should have posted that a while ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 27, 2020, 12:57:14 PM
Howie and Jon, it's always great to see you guys here--thanks for speaking up and bringing some new wrinkles to all of our Buddha brows...

And Joel G., I think I can speak for most of us in hoping that you will take careful note of the factual and interpretive updates provided here and will find a way to incoporate that into your next article.

I still think a complete track list of FEEL FLOWS as it was signed off on should be put into the hands of the rock press, but it appears that we will have to take a "two-step side-step" approach to that. Given that it appears we must proceed that way in terms laying this out for the media, one or two more tidbits about unreleased work from other band members might supply the needed grease to get a "full-court press" up to speed next month to keep the pathway open for a December FEEL FLOWS release. We still need to escalate the attention being paid to this, so the word to those of you active on social media is definitely "don't back down." Let's use every tidbit to any possible advantage...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 27, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
I'm reading all of this as the Dennis Solo material is fairly safe, but not so much the Dennis Wilson Beach Boys material if that makes sense.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 27, 2020, 02:12:39 PM


I, for one, would never underestimate the lengths that those who are petty and jealous would do in order to preserve their egos.

Turns out Mike's used car salesman history revisionism (or if you are to believe it, perhaps simply the innocent ignorant historical revisionism by his record label) wasn't just wrong by four years, it was wrong by a *decade*. Never forget:

(https://i.imgur.com/ccxRXWt.jpg)

Good thing those stickers didn't last long, because there were more important stickers that soon took precedence:

(https://i.imgur.com/vKPOEP7.jpg)

Well it was the first solo album by a Beach Boy, the most envious, petty and litigious one.

It just wasn't the first solo album by any Beach Boy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 27, 2020, 02:13:46 PM
Thanks to Howie + Jon for the update/new info.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on September 27, 2020, 03:14:55 PM
I'm reading all of this as the Dennis Solo material is fairly safe, but not so much the Dennis Wilson Beach Boys material if that makes sense.
No that makes no sense, and if it did it's still wrong.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
If the music wasn’t as good as it is I’d have bailed on this band years ago.  The more I think about this mess the more irritated I get


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on September 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
So despite what has been posted here previously (by Hey Jude) I'm now getting the impression that the content of the box set IS the hold up.

Or is there another issue as well?

And is it one or two BRI members who are delaying the release of Feel Flows?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 03:29:09 PM
I'd like to see Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters get involved at this point.

I wonder if he knows what is going on here. He obviously has a very deep connection to Dennis' music, and had an extraordinarily unique role as having received a baton to continue Dennis' legacy for Holy Man. Which based on the BBC documentary, he seems to know it was a very important thing and seemed humbled by it.

I could imagine a guy like that wanting to do what he could in terms of letting his celebrity to help publicize what's happening here. A gross injustice and a slap in the face against the late fellow who he obviously has deep admiration for.

Hell, maybe even Brian May who is now also connected to the DW canon would be willing to get involved. At minimum those guys should be made aware of what's happening here.  Plus Cameron Crowe.

Dennis is not around and does not have a voice to speak for or advocate for himself anymore, and that to me is a real tragedy in this whole thing.

And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this? It sounds silly but is there a bigger Dennis fanboy who is a beloved celebrity? Let alone somebody who VERY much has Mike's ear? I feel pretty damn certain if Stamos simply said to Mike that he wants this box to come out intact, or else he won't play future BBs shows, that an intact FF would happen in an instant. I literally think it would be as simple as that. Of all the people in the world who might be able to directly move the needle to help the legacy of his band, Uncle Friggin Jessie might literally be the only person who could do it. Totally serious and not even kidding. It is utterly absurd but this approximates actual reality.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on September 27, 2020, 06:30:36 PM
Let's get back to planet earth, everyone. By now it's clear that the issue is one of "less is more". It's nothing to do with some unbelievable accusation like "Mike is jealous of the Dennis songs". This board gets so ridiculous.

Just think about it - if the goal is to gain the band some recognition from people who aren't ALREADY recognizing them, then 5 CDs is probably not an easy sell. Can you imagine going up to someone who isn't a big fan of Pet Sounds or Smile and saying, "Look, I know you don't care for those records but really, the Beach Boys are a great band, just listen to this 6.5-hour-long collection of unreleased songs and sessions highlights!" Remember that almost every professional critic who reviewed The Smile Sessions box set groaned and moaned about how excessive it was. (I have also read similar criticisms leveled against Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World, inexplicably.)

For the record, I think everything should get released and that anyone who'd complain about "too much content" is a fool.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lake Erie Surfer on September 27, 2020, 06:36:21 PM
I think when you distill it down the goal ultimately is copyright protection. And this stuff needs to be released in some form to avoid falling into the public domain. That would seem to obviate questions about the content of the set. They need to put out the material they want to legally protect.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 06:47:14 PM
Let's get back to planet earth, everyone. By now it's clear that the issue is one of "less is more". It's nothing to do with some unbelievable accusation like "Mike is jealous of the Dennis songs". This board gets so ridiculous.

Just think about it - if the goal is to gain the band some recognition from people who aren't ALREADY recognizing them, then 5 CDs is probably not an easy sell. Can you imagine going up to someone who isn't a big fan of Pet Sounds or Smile and saying, "Look, I know you don't care for those records but really, the Beach Boys are a great band, just listen to this 6.5-hour-long collection of unreleased songs and sessions highlights!" Remember that almost every professional critic who reviewed The Smile Sessions box set groaned and moaned about how excessive it was. (I have also read similar criticisms leveled against Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World, inexplicably.)

For the record, I think everything should get released and that anyone who'd complain about "too much content" is a fool.

If that were really the case, an easy solution would be to release a couple different varieties of it, the way they did with The Smile Sessions - a super deluxe one AND a cut down one. Remember - despite a few reviewers who might have stupidly bemoaned TSS being excessive, it went on to win a Grammy, so they got put in their place.  The band would more or less please everybody by doing that, if it was really as simple as that.

So yeah... I'm not quite buying that as an excuse. if it was really as simple as that, but not any "opposition" to *something*, another solution could simply be to have a bunch of the tracks be digital only bonus tracks. Clearly, when the heart and soul of this set is jeopardized and the makers of the say come here to tell that to us, I cannot believe it's as simple as the band randomly saying  "Gee, let's just make this smaller for the heck of it".

Nothing is ever as easy, simple, and completely apolitical as that in Beach Boys land. Especially on the heels of the tumultuousness that happened in February, and when we consider the delays that happened with the pet sounds sessions too. There's lots of things that point in the direction that this isn't just some simple, apolitical thing, IMHO.

And I really can't see the term "dying on the vine" getting said innocuously for no reason either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on September 27, 2020, 07:11:08 PM
Maybe it's a marketing dispute. Maybe the camp believes that a lavish 5-CD set will appear more "important" than a a ~100-track digital release, but the other camp thinks that the gluttony of material defeats the purpose of such a package.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 27, 2020, 07:25:20 PM
Maybe it's a marketing dispute. Maybe the camp believes that a lavish 5-CD set will appear more "important" than a a ~100-track digital release, but the other camp thinks that the gluttony of material defeats the purpose of such a package.

It could be a marketing issue, and it could also have some element of ego in there in some way, shape or form. You have to admit, Mike has provided a great many examples of having done things with that as his driving force or so it would seem. How that would exactly unfold, how that would be spun in a manner that would specifically impact this set I can't say for sure. But I find it difficult to believe that it is 100% a complete non-issue in every way.

I have a little doubt that if there is some weird ego thing happening, that a different reason or two or three could easily be given as subterfuge. There are many many reasons that Mike gave as why he saw fit to end the 2012 reunion, many of them contradicted each other. He could pick a different reason for any day of the week, and then he said something earlier in the tour that contradicts that. But it's pretty obvious in 2012 he got his feelings hurt and decided to take his ball and go home.

The guy seems to do that. A lot.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 28, 2020, 04:04:34 AM
Definitely more confused than before as to what's going on with this. Perhaps it's time for speculation and those claiming to have tidbits of inside knowledge to pipe down for a bit and just await further clarification from Howie who actually knows.

Based on Howie's posts it definitely sounds like it may be reworked as a baseline copyright extension release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on September 28, 2020, 04:28:14 AM
What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.

So is there anything the fan community can do here to keep this set in the hands of the "right people" and see a proper release?  Honestly these online petitions ultimately seem a little useless and other than hounding and harassing folks (which I also frown upon doing), I'm not sure what else can be done.  There has to be a constructive, positive way to let our voices be heard.  I believe it was the fans that pushed to get Dennis' lost WIBNTLA onto their last box set; surely we are not completely powerless. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 28, 2020, 01:00:07 PM
Let's get back to planet earth, everyone. By now it's clear that the issue is one of "less is more". It's nothing to do with some unbelievable accusation like "Mike is jealous of the Dennis songs". This board gets so ridiculous.

Just think about it - if the goal is to gain the band some recognition from people who aren't ALREADY recognizing them, then 5 CDs is probably not an easy sell. Can you imagine going up to someone who isn't a big fan of Pet Sounds or Smile and saying, "Look, I know you don't care for those records but really, the Beach Boys are a great band, just listen to this 6.5-hour-long collection of unreleased songs and sessions highlights!" Remember that almost every professional critic who reviewed The Smile Sessions box set groaned and moaned about how excessive it was. (I have also read similar criticisms leveled against Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World, inexplicably.)

For the record, I think everything should get released and that anyone who'd complain about "too much content" is a fool.

It's fascinating that once every ten pages or so someone new to the conversation seems to pop up out of nowhere, pronounce the "ridiculous" nature of elements of the discussion, and sit back and fold their arms like they have it all figured out.

If you think this set is about throwing a 5-CD box at the head of someone with no interest in the band at all, you're missing the point.

For the MILLIONTH time, *everybody* involved with this set has a good idea about how many copies it can sell.

The *recognition* issue is about getting Rolling Stone and other print and online media to cover a RENEWED look at this amazing material. Some casual music fans and casual BB fans will learn more about it, and they'll have a MILLION ways to delve into the material further. This includes buying a 5-CD set, but it also involves just buying "Sunflower" or "Surf's Up", or sampling tracks to purchase or stream.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 28, 2020, 01:02:55 PM
Maybe it's a marketing dispute. Maybe the camp believes that a lavish 5-CD set will appear more "important" than a a ~100-track digital release, but the other camp thinks that the gluttony of material defeats the purpose of such a package.

No, none of this is accurate.

As I've said a million times in this thread, nothing to do with the size/cost/marketability/content of this set is the reason for the hold up.

And I'm tired of explaining why, if this set can't make it out and they are *forced* to do a digital-only release, that portends a potential series of things that will undercut the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on September 28, 2020, 01:17:25 PM
nothing to do with the size/cost/marketability/content of this set is the reason for the hold up.

Howie and Jon's last posts beg to differ

What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.

If someone thinks the set needs to be "revamped" then that means the dispute is over content... And most likely the size of it, as Jon also implied that it's not about any specific content in particular


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 01:24:32 PM
nothing to do with the size/cost/marketability/content of this set is the reason for the hold up.

Howie and Jon's last posts beg to differ

What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.

If someone thinks the set needs to be "revamped" then that means the dispute is over content... And most likely the size of it, as Jon also implied that it's not about any specific content in particular

I would think that it's conceivable that the reason that the set is being sidelined - and the fact that maybe the set could still come out in some butchered, mutilated form - are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

The FF set could be equated by someone in the band as "a general direction for the band to be hyped up as, that they personally don't want to be the focus of what people/media/music mags think of as The BBs".

The uncut, lavish set as we know it to exist could be completely sidelined due to some sort of branding desire for the totality of the band/brand (or for some other crap reason)... and separate from that, possibly a minimal digital dump might be made purely as a contractual thing for copyright reasons on some material. That would be less a content issue and more an overall branding issue that could be killing the set, yet a "revamp" might just be a lame consolation prize done purely for legal reasons.

EDIT: HeyJude just explained some of the same thoughts that I clunkily tried to express here, in better form, a few posts down :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jeffh on September 28, 2020, 01:26:08 PM
I'd like to see Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters get involved at this point.

I wonder if he knows what is going on here. He obviously has a very deep connection to Dennis' music, and had an extraordinarily unique role as having received a baton to continue Dennis' legacy for Holy Man. Which based on the BBC documentary, he seems to know it was a very important thing and seemed humbled by it.

I could imagine a guy like that wanting to do what he could in terms of letting his celebrity to help publicize what's happening here. A gross injustice and a slap in the face against the late fellow who he obviously has deep admiration for.

Hell, maybe even Brian May who is now also connected to the DW canon would be willing to get involved. At minimum those guys should be made aware of what's happening here.  Plus Cameron Crowe.

Dennis is not around and does not have a voice to speak for or advocate for himself anymore, and that to me is a real tragedy in this whole thing.

And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this? It sounds silly but is there a bigger Dennis fanboy who is a beloved celebrity? Let alone somebody who VERY much has Mike's ear? I feel pretty damn certain if Stamos simply said to Mike that he wants this box to come out intact, or else he won't play future BBs shows, that an intact FF would happen in an instant. I literally think it would be as simple as that. Of all the people in the world who might be able to directly move the needle to help the legacy of his band, Uncle Friggin Jessie might literally be the only person who could do it. Totally serious and not even kidding. It is utterly absurd but this approximates actual reality.

Really? Stamos should risk pissing Mike off and maybe lose his gig over unreleased music ?  He should threaten to not play anymore shows with The Beach Boys ? Are you serious?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 01:29:56 PM
I'd like to see Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters get involved at this point.

I wonder if he knows what is going on here. He obviously has a very deep connection to Dennis' music, and had an extraordinarily unique role as having received a baton to continue Dennis' legacy for Holy Man. Which based on the BBC documentary, he seems to know it was a very important thing and seemed humbled by it.

I could imagine a guy like that wanting to do what he could in terms of letting his celebrity to help publicize what's happening here. A gross injustice and a slap in the face against the late fellow who he obviously has deep admiration for.

Hell, maybe even Brian May who is now also connected to the DW canon would be willing to get involved. At minimum those guys should be made aware of what's happening here.  Plus Cameron Crowe.

Dennis is not around and does not have a voice to speak for or advocate for himself anymore, and that to me is a real tragedy in this whole thing.

And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this? It sounds silly but is there a bigger Dennis fanboy who is a beloved celebrity? Let alone somebody who VERY much has Mike's ear? I feel pretty damn certain if Stamos simply said to Mike that he wants this box to come out intact, or else he won't play future BBs shows, that an intact FF would happen in an instant. I literally think it would be as simple as that. Of all the people in the world who might be able to directly move the needle to help the legacy of his band, Uncle Friggin Jessie might literally be the only person who could do it. Totally serious and not even kidding. It is utterly absurd but this approximates actual reality.

Really? Stamos should risk pissing Mike off and maybe lose his gig over unreleased music ?  He should threaten to not play anymore shows with The Beach Boys ? Are you serious?

Of course I'm serious. Stamos has PLENTY of money. If he really, truly cares about the legacy of DW, I cannot conceive the guy would be happy, hunky dory with the idea of an entire album of DW material being straight up CRAPPED ON and BUTCHERED.

There is literally no other celebrity who comes close to being as overtly a DW fanboy as Stamos.  

To *some* people, there are things more important than short term money made from gigs, especially to already very wealthy people. Plus, Mike NEEDS Stamos. Badly. Mike is not going to risk losing someone who draws in the babes, as I'm sure Mike sees it. Mike would not tell Stamos to peace out. No way.

To Stamos, playing occasional gigs with The BBs is a "for fun" or vanity type project. This is not his bread and butter. And he has known Mike for YEARS. I'm sure he could approach the situation, if he cared to, in a delicate and non forceful way. And I think he could move the needle, I really do.  I mean, what is this band missing now? It's missing a peacemaker, a mediator, the Carl of the equation.

Because of Stamos' unique position in the M&B universe, and his unique position as a huge DW fanboy and (one would think) someone who truly gives a f*ck about the legacy of DW specifically, I think he could play that role, if he wanted to, if it meant enough to him, presuming (as I am, and I think as most people would imagine) that Mike is at least, at minimum part of the reason why this awful block is happening.

It's nuts, but I feel that Stamos is about the only guy on the planet who I think Mike would feel that a situation which resulted in fully, completely losing Stamos would harm Mike's version of the brand. And for that reason, I think he could yield some power if he cared. It would greatly surprise me that if Stamos became aware that an entire album's worth of DW material was being mutilated, that he would not be personally upset by learning this.

jeffh, do you really dispute any of this?

I mean, geez. I cannot imagine anyone thinking that Mike himself has never made any ultimatums about stuff that meant something to him at some point in the past pertaining to things that matter to him in the band. I'm sure he has, and I'm sure he could take some of his own medicine. Why is that such an outrageous thought? Wealthy people exist in this world who sometimes do things for other than money. It does happen occasionally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SpanoItaliano on September 28, 2020, 01:35:12 PM
Godddddd can't wait for this baby to come out!!😍😍😍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 28, 2020, 01:44:20 PM
nothing to do with the size/cost/marketability/content of this set is the reason for the hold up.

Howie and Jon's last posts beg to differ

No, I think you're misinterpreting those posts.

Jesus, first I *am* Howie, now I don't know what he's talking about?

The problem is not that there is someone behind the scenes desiring to edit the sets down either due to content or length. Everybody signed off on the compilation, mixing, mastering and art/package prep for this set in its finished, full state.

The problem is that if the full set isn't greenlit for release, they will be *forced* to do a digital-only release, and at that point a bunch of material could be lost in the process because the set shifts from a lavish archival release to celebrate the band, and into a compulsory "copyright protection" dump.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 28, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
If someone thinks the set needs to be "revamped" then that means the dispute is over content... And most likely the size of it, as Jon also implied that it's not about any specific content in particular

No, no. It was stated that the set is *in danger of being revamped*, meaning the full, physical set is being stonewalled, but someone will almost surely explain to them that they *have to* protect certain songs' copyrights, and thus a scaled-back digital-only "revamp" will be the only option at that point.

The "revamp" isn't the cause of the set being delayed. The "revamp" would be the RESULT of the set being delayed.

This has been discussed for ten thousand pages in this thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 28, 2020, 01:49:59 PM
I'd like to see Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters get involved at this point.

I wonder if he knows what is going on here. He obviously has a very deep connection to Dennis' music, and had an extraordinarily unique role as having received a baton to continue Dennis' legacy for Holy Man. Which based on the BBC documentary, he seems to know it was a very important thing and seemed humbled by it.

I could imagine a guy like that wanting to do what he could in terms of letting his celebrity to help publicize what's happening here. A gross injustice and a slap in the face against the late fellow who he obviously has deep admiration for.

Hell, maybe even Brian May who is now also connected to the DW canon would be willing to get involved. At minimum those guys should be made aware of what's happening here.  Plus Cameron Crowe.

Dennis is not around and does not have a voice to speak for or advocate for himself anymore, and that to me is a real tragedy in this whole thing.

And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this? It sounds silly but is there a bigger Dennis fanboy who is a beloved celebrity? Let alone somebody who VERY much has Mike's ear? I feel pretty damn certain if Stamos simply said to Mike that he wants this box to come out intact, or else he won't play future BBs shows, that an intact FF would happen in an instant. I literally think it would be as simple as that. Of all the people in the world who might be able to directly move the needle to help the legacy of his band, Uncle Friggin Jessie might literally be the only person who could do it. Totally serious and not even kidding. It is utterly absurd but this approximates actual reality.

Really? Stamos should risk pissing Mike off and maybe lose his gig over unreleased music ?  He should threaten to not play anymore shows with The Beach Boys ? Are you serious?

To assert that Stamos actually *would* do this is not at all realistic.

That he *should* do this? Absolutely. Stamos could absolutely (and without losing his bromance with Mike) lobby Mike and the others to release this set, and he *would* have more sway than many if not most. Sadly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JaiGuruDev on September 28, 2020, 01:51:53 PM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 01:52:17 PM
I'd like to see Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters get involved at this point.

I wonder if he knows what is going on here. He obviously has a very deep connection to Dennis' music, and had an extraordinarily unique role as having received a baton to continue Dennis' legacy for Holy Man. Which based on the BBC documentary, he seems to know it was a very important thing and seemed humbled by it.

I could imagine a guy like that wanting to do what he could in terms of letting his celebrity to help publicize what's happening here. A gross injustice and a slap in the face against the late fellow who he obviously has deep admiration for.

Hell, maybe even Brian May who is now also connected to the DW canon would be willing to get involved. At minimum those guys should be made aware of what's happening here.  Plus Cameron Crowe.

Dennis is not around and does not have a voice to speak for or advocate for himself anymore, and that to me is a real tragedy in this whole thing.

And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this? It sounds silly but is there a bigger Dennis fanboy who is a beloved celebrity? Let alone somebody who VERY much has Mike's ear? I feel pretty damn certain if Stamos simply said to Mike that he wants this box to come out intact, or else he won't play future BBs shows, that an intact FF would happen in an instant. I literally think it would be as simple as that. Of all the people in the world who might be able to directly move the needle to help the legacy of his band, Uncle Friggin Jessie might literally be the only person who could do it. Totally serious and not even kidding. It is utterly absurd but this approximates actual reality.

Really? Stamos should risk pissing Mike off and maybe lose his gig over unreleased music ?  He should threaten to not play anymore shows with The Beach Boys ? Are you serious?

To assert that Stamos actually *would* do this is not at all realistic.

That he *should* do this? Absolutely. Stamos could absolutely (and without losing his bromance with Mike) lobby Mike and the others to release this set, and he *would* have more sway than many if not most. Sadly.

Exactly. Not that I think it's likely to happen, but I truly, truly believe that Stamos COULD in fact be the HERO in this whole thing, if he truly wanted to be.

Totally serious. Think about it. It may be laughable because thinking about Stamos immediately conjures up images of 80s mullets and Dave Coulier doing bad "Cut-It-Out!" gags, but as bizarre as it it is, Stamos SURELY has some sway with Mike in a very unique way.

To any doubters, I would ask: think of someone, anyone, other than Stamos, who Mike would feel that losing that person would maybe be somewhat of a blow to the marketing of the live show (maybe not a fatal blow, but still a blow)?  Someone other than Stamos who Mike would surely feel HELPS Mike steer the BBs ship in the direction that Mike sees fit (Mike hypes up Stamos ALL the time at every opportunity possible, such as the recent Mike interview about the drive-in shows in California, to which the female interviewer swooned over Stamos being present at those shows, and Mike just ate it all up).

If it's Mike holding it up (duh), who else other than Stamos could possibly hold any sort of sway?  Let alone someone who is already an obvious DW fanboy and has publicly been so for decades, enough to have personally helped elevate DW's stature in the early '90s? Gotta give credit to Stamos for doing that, many many people know the song "Forever" SOLELY because of Stamos and Full House.

Of course Stamos would have some sway if he cared enough. Stamos is like the Eddie Van Halen to M&B, as ridiculous as that seems. Irreplaceable in the eyes of the bandleader who values babes at shows as much as Mike does. Again, if Stamos approached this not like a d*ck, but as someone who really, truly cares about the legacy of this band, and as someone who would have the guts to say to Mike "I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on that, Mike", then maybe he could move the needle.

If Stamos could be incentivized to do so, then the fact that he could make a difference is not a ridiculous thought. The only thing Mike understands is reacting to things that are threats to him in some fashion. Does anyone think Mike would want to lose Stamos?

If it seems like a desperate suggestion, well these are clearly desperate times for the set, sad to say.

The list of actions that Mike has done which are reactionary is massive. On rare occasion, it's actually something good that comes of it, like Mike sprucing up his setlist and getting into deeper material, as a reaction to compete with Brian's extraordinarily well-reviewed live show, and to not completely and embarrassingly pale in comparison in the eyes of many. Mike didn't just add in a bunch of deeper cuts when he did a few years back for no reason. It was reactionary. No doubt.  So yeah, this could have a similar type of effect. Something good coming out Mike as a result of fear of not wanting something else bad happening, losing his keys to the babe contingent of his live shows. Would Mike want to - now and Forever - answer reporters' questions of "where's Stamos?" with "uhh... he doesn't play with us anymore".

Ya know, Luke Skywalker didn't ask to be the guy who saved a perilous situation, either. It just fell into his lap, due to circumstances. Stamos literally could be a hero. Not all heros wear capes, but some of them do wear Jesse & The Rippers oufits.
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 28, 2020, 02:27:27 PM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


WTF?!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 28, 2020, 02:28:24 PM

It's fascinating that once every ten pages or so someone new to the conversation seems to pop up out of nowhere, pronounce the "ridiculous" nature of elements of the discussion, and sit back and fold their arms like they have it all figured out.

If you think this set is about throwing a 5-CD box at the head of someone with no interest in the band at all, you're missing the point.

For the MILLIONTH time, *everybody* involved with this set has a good idea about how many copies it can sell.

The *recognition* issue is about getting Rolling Stone and other print and online media to cover a RENEWED look at this amazing material. Some casual music fans and casual BB fans will learn more about it, and they'll have a MILLION ways to delve into the material further. This includes buying a 5-CD set, but it also involves just buying "Sunflower" or "Surf's Up", or sampling tracks to purchase or stream.

That is the issue, absolutely. And that is why a track listing for FEEL FLOWS needs to at least be leaked to the media (though I'm sure everyone who's posted in this thread, for better or worse, would like to see it). I feel for Howie in so many ways--what an impossibly frustrating position to be put into--but he or someone with that info really needs to get it into the hands of those who can give it the type of coverage that will blow the lid off things. He's taken a step in that direction here, but someone needs to walk all the way down the stairs and out the door into the full light of day on this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 02:31:47 PM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


Are you sure that was Mike Love? maybe it was some other tool wearing a baseball hat and being a jerk for no good reason.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 28, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


WTF?!

I know, I always had Mike down as a Snickers man myself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 02:39:06 PM

It's fascinating that once every ten pages or so someone new to the conversation seems to pop up out of nowhere, pronounce the "ridiculous" nature of elements of the discussion, and sit back and fold their arms like they have it all figured out.

If you think this set is about throwing a 5-CD box at the head of someone with no interest in the band at all, you're missing the point.

For the MILLIONTH time, *everybody* involved with this set has a good idea about how many copies it can sell.

The *recognition* issue is about getting Rolling Stone and other print and online media to cover a RENEWED look at this amazing material. Some casual music fans and casual BB fans will learn more about it, and they'll have a MILLION ways to delve into the material further. This includes buying a 5-CD set, but it also involves just buying "Sunflower" or "Surf's Up", or sampling tracks to purchase or stream.

That is the issue, absolutely. And that is why a track listing for FEEL FLOWS needs to at least be leaked to the media (though I'm sure everyone who's posted in this thread, for better or worse, would like to see it). I feel for Howie in so many ways--what an impossibly frustrating position to be put into--but he or someone with that info really needs to get it into the hands of those who can give it the type of coverage that will blow the lid off things. He's taken a step in that direction here, but someone needs to walk all the way down the stairs and out the door into the full light of day on this.

Yeah, the track listing could really bring some attention to this, but it might not blow it wide open.

By their nature unheard songs aren't going to be instantly recognized as unrealized masterpieces (which we all know some of them will be).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 02:40:43 PM

It's fascinating that once every ten pages or so someone new to the conversation seems to pop up out of nowhere, pronounce the "ridiculous" nature of elements of the discussion, and sit back and fold their arms like they have it all figured out.

If you think this set is about throwing a 5-CD box at the head of someone with no interest in the band at all, you're missing the point.

For the MILLIONTH time, *everybody* involved with this set has a good idea about how many copies it can sell.

The *recognition* issue is about getting Rolling Stone and other print and online media to cover a RENEWED look at this amazing material. Some casual music fans and casual BB fans will learn more about it, and they'll have a MILLION ways to delve into the material further. This includes buying a 5-CD set, but it also involves just buying "Sunflower" or "Surf's Up", or sampling tracks to purchase or stream.

That is the issue, absolutely. And that is why a track listing for FEEL FLOWS needs to at least be leaked to the media (though I'm sure everyone who's posted in this thread, for better or worse, would like to see it). I feel for Howie in so many ways--what an impossibly frustrating position to be put into--but he or someone with that info really needs to get it into the hands of those who can give it the type of coverage that will blow the lid off things. He's taken a step in that direction here, but someone needs to walk all the way down the stairs and out the door into the full light of day on this.

This is so INCREDIBLY true. If such a tracklisting got to the press, then someone from the band would - however reluctantly - HAVE to eventually answer to why the material is in jeopardy.

I cannot believe that every member of the band, their families, friends, every single person did a NXIVM style cattle branding into their chests vowing to never talk about the set, and that a leaked tracklisting wouldn't put pressure to get the set and its FULL contents addressed, and hopefully, released.

This would literally be the biggest Watergate or Wikileaks in the history of the classic rock world.

SMiLE Part II. Why is the band's greatest material consistently being squandered? Helluva headline.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on September 28, 2020, 02:45:33 PM

... Jesus, first I *am* Howie, now I don't know what he's talking about? ...


Hey Jude, please help me out here. Are you saying you are actually Howie? Or that someone mistook you as Howie?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 02:47:59 PM

Yeah, the track listing could really bring some attention to this, but it might not blow it wide open.

By their nature unheard songs aren't going to be instantly recognized as unrealized masterpieces (which we all know some of them will be).

That may be true, but it's an incredibly tantalizing discussion for any rock music press to want to discuss why someone would want to screw over the legacy of the unheralded (but gaining much fame/respect especially since the 2008 POB reissue) 2nd genius of the band, DW. Why would someone want to squander an entire album's worth of material by this guy, who isn't around to advocate for himself anymore, after the set has ALREADY been assembled and previously deemed worthy enough of putting together?

Once again, this doesn't even get into the other great material that is clearly on this set, including (I'm sure) alternate versions of more famous songs, and why that material would be desired to be squandered.

Why would a band want to shortchange themselves? That's the real question, and a minefield that certain parties do not want to answer, but those parties will be put into a very awkward position to concoct answers to, and might hopefully just relent their ridiculous, misguided cause and simply allow the full set to be released.

I feel sure it has something at least partially to do with Mike Love's unending erection for the band/brand to be known primarily as his grosso Stamosified vision of it. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anyone in the know has outright denied that some party's warped vision for OVERALL BRANDING being incompatible with FF is a complete non-issue regarding the block of FF.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 02:48:37 PM

... Jesus, first I *am* Howie, now I don't know what he's talking about? ...


Hey Jude, please help me out here. Are you saying you are actually Howie? Or that someone mistook you as Howie?



He's saying the latter. That particular allegation was made a few pages back.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 02:57:09 PM
I don't think a band ever has to answer for what they do.

You might think it's not fair, not right or whatever, and I agree, but it's their decision, not ours.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 03:05:51 PM
I don't think a band ever has to answer for what they do.

You might think it's not fair, not right or whatever, and I agree, but it's their decision, not ours.



But what if Brian and Al are for the set, and someone is trying to block it against their wishes? That's OK? And what if petty vindictiveness and narcissism is fueling that?  That's an absolute horror show in my book.  

What if Mike could have legally finagled a way in 1998 to have the rights to go into the vault and destroy all of the master tapes for unreleased Mike-less BW material, against the wishes of BW?  I feel what we have here is perhaps only a few steps removed from that. This is part of why fans are so riled up and will not let this just fade away. A situation may have unfolded where someone who has no business speaking for the dead's wishes is somehow in power to do so, and is doing things for self-serving reasons, and that disgusts me.  

It's not just "not right or whatever", it's disgusting.

This situation may perhaps be a decades-later tragic aftereffect of DW's shares in the band being sold after his death to pay off his debts. That, to me, nullifies the argument of it being "their" decision. Dennis was part of "they" when it comes to this band. Only his tragic premature death and the tragic situation of his shares no longer being in the hands of his heirs have enabled someone to *exploit that situation for their own ego and gain*.

That thought is absolutely, positively sickening, and anybody with a heart would probably feel the same way if they really sat and thought about it for a moment.  The situation is more akin to watching a boxing fight, and someone is cheating with brass knuckles. Because they can.

If caring and passionate fans weren't being watchdogs for the legacy, there's a LOT of things historically that would have unfolded differently and with far worse results.

To picture of Mike in C50 standing around the piano with everyone in 2012 singing "add some music to your day", from an album that had a vibe of band unity to it, and to reconcile that with the probable fact that he is likely the cause of trying to screw over everyone else in the band, including his late cousins, for some petty, egomaniacal reasons makes me think lower of the man that I ever thought possible.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SpanoItaliano on September 28, 2020, 03:17:18 PM
Personally, I think John Stamos is holding up its release because he doesn't want any of Dennis' material on it, as his goal is to go down in history as The Beach Boys' one and only drummer.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SpanoItaliano on September 28, 2020, 03:30:04 PM
What if Bruce could have legally finagled a way in 1972 to have the rights to go into the vault and hide the master tape for the unreleased Out in the Country by Don Goldberg, against the wishes of Don Goldberg?  I feel what we have here is perhaps only a few steps removed from that despicable hypothetical analogy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 28, 2020, 03:36:21 PM

... Jesus, first I *am* Howie, now I don't know what he's talking about? ...


Hey Jude, please help me out here. Are you saying you are actually Howie? Or that someone mistook you as Howie?



He's saying the latter. That particular allegation was made a few pages back.

Yup.  I found the accusation so ludicrous that I changed my user name to what it is now (and messaged Howie to tell him about the ludicrous post)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
I'm not arguing that it's right, or fair or just - I'm not saying don't call it out.

What I am saying is don't encourage people to breach their (contractual or other) responsibilities.

Do you think it would be a good result if the tracklist were leaked and someone like Howie got blacklisted from all BRI involvement notwithstanding innocence. That's the sort of territory that is possible as a result of what people are suggesting here. And I don't think that's fair.

In my country at least, and I think probably in the US as well, inducing someone to breach a contract can potentially result in damages being awarded no only against the "breacher" but also against the "inducer".

Actions have consequences - or in Sanskrit "karma".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 28, 2020, 04:30:55 PM
I'm not arguing that it's right, or fair or just - I'm not saying don't call it out.

What I am saying is don't encourage people to breach their (contractual or other) responsibilities.

Do you think it would be a good result if the tracklist were leaked and someone like Howie got blacklisted from all BRI involvement notwithstanding innocence. That's the sort of territory that is possible as a result of what people are suggesting here. And I don't think that's fair.

In my country at least, and I think probably in the US as well, inducing someone to breach a contract can potentially result in damages being awarded no only against the "breacher" but also against the "inducer".

Actions have consequences - or in Sanskrit "karma".


I totally get what you're saying, and I would never berate someone in that position for abstaining from leaking a tracklist.  Nor would I ever expect them to do so. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Howie's already incredibly valiant efforts. We're all still allowed to hope that something, somehow happens.

Yet I hope that there are still different, creative ways for the tracklist to leak.  Sometimes leaks come indirectly from inside from the highest of places, you really just never know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 28, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Yes - let's all hope something good happens.

This year, I think we could all use some good news.

And yes, Brian or Al could always leak the track list, you just never know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on September 28, 2020, 05:19:09 PM
Summary:

1. FF was completed and ready for release, the label and BRI are behind it. All on board.

2. Some member(s) of the group decided they don’t actually want to put it out yet for some unknown reason.

3. As it’s looking less and less likely that it will be released in 2020, “Plan B” seems to be in the works - this involves putting something together to cover the the tracks subject to 2020 copyright protection. As several of us noted many times in this thread - this potentially changes what FF is or will be, thus potentially jeopardizing it’s viability and future existence.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 28, 2020, 07:19:21 PM
I have zero interest in a "plan B"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 28, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
I come in here at least twice a day to check for updates, and I appreciate any that I find - thanks to Howie for trying to keep us up to speed.

I find it interesting to think that any of us who have seriously followed this band for more than a few minutes can actually be surprised by things like this looming catastrophe re: the FF set.  To try to find logical reasons for the hold-up is an exercise in futility.  I agree with those who have posted that the focus should be on “what can I do to help get this released” rather than on “what could be the cause of the hold-up”.

HeyJude has explained in detail that the set is ready to go, like a huge box of candy that’s sitting on a shelf, but one or more of the store owners won’t open the doors...

And it has nothing to do with Milky Ways...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on September 28, 2020, 09:07:36 PM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


I hope to one day have as much free time as this kid.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on September 28, 2020, 11:23:21 PM
[Deleted by user]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on September 28, 2020, 11:55:29 PM
Crazy to think that yesterday was the last date of the C50 tour, and the last time we saw any actual unity here. Anyone scared of damaging the brand has truly missed the entire point.

I wonder if it’s anything to do with how poorly Sunflower did on the charts? “Why is that worth celebrating”.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 29, 2020, 12:01:39 AM
Yes - let's all hope something good happens.

This year, I think we could all use some good news.

And yes, Brian or Al could always leak the track list, you just never know.

Right. The thing is, I don't think Brian has a fight left in him. He is 78 and has been through hell and back, and his old wounds just keep getting picked at by narcissistic vultures. I'm sure it took a good amount of emotional energy to get him to the point to be interviewed extensively about that time period. And about the music of his late brothers. Yet someone comes along to sh*t on all of that.

I'd really like to know how anybody who is familiar with the story of this band could not be deeply upset at the thought of that. Of Brian putting himself out there for what must've been an emotional interview about a difficult time for him, talking about his brothers' contributions in a more extensive manner that he may not have often done in the past, and then having all of that come to nothing. It's really no wonder that Brian seems to have "checked out" of outwardly caring about many things, and he often seems to brush things off in a manner that people interpret as him being out of it or something like that. It would be very hard for anyone to outwardly express getting hopes up about good things that could happen when - for the *umpteenth* time - there are garbage people out there ready to spoil the good vibrations yet again. It truly blows my mind how much crap he has been through and continues to go through at the hands of self-serving narcissistic fools.

That poor guy used up so many of his emotional resources many years ago, not that he was ever much of a combative fighter to begin with. But maybe someone on behalf of him, like Melinda, or somebody anonymously in their organization with permission from the top, might take it upon themselves to leak the tracklisting, if for no other reason then to stick it to Mike.  I mean, computers and files sometimes go missing and stuff.

Sure as the sun will come around again to start another day, I'm equally sure that Melinda understandably detests Mike more than anyone could possibly imagine. She might be the one to have the biggest incentive to have this leak out, if just to piss Mike off. But then again I'm sure she has Brian's well-being to think about, and the last thing Brian wants to do is to get involved with is the stress of a big public kerfuffle. I can only hope that behind the scenes Melinda and others who yield some power could be  putting the screws to Mike in any number of ways.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 29, 2020, 02:04:09 AM
(Deleted duplicate post)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on September 29, 2020, 02:54:57 AM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


I hope to one day have as much free time as this kid.

Smoke a lot of dope and you'll have it.  😋


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 29, 2020, 07:54:50 AM
It's alright JaiGuruDev, I understood the reference.

Regarding the issue of “what can I do to help get this released”, there was a germ of an idea between me and one of the mods on the Beach Boys subreddit about getting people to cover songs from this era and publish/share videos of these covers advocating for Feel Flows' release. I haven't heard back from him in a bit, but certainly there are people here that may be interested in doing that as well, and what better way to show people how amazing this set would be than with the music itself. It may be for naught, or maybe a bombardment of covers could attract some attention. I mean, this (beautiful) cover of Thank Him (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-HYZL-zFjA) got the attention of Brian's management and social media and was apparently heard by Brian himself, so who knows. And hey, even if it isn't released this year, with enough songs we can have our own version of the box set by the end of the year ;D

Was already thinking along the same lines...we’re already starting something similar!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 29, 2020, 07:55:55 AM
I saw Mike Love at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him about the Feel Flows set or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.


I hope to one day have as much free time as this kid.

Smoke a lot of dope and you'll have it.  😋


Sounds like a plan!



...


Oh wait...dammit... *puts it out*. 😏


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 29, 2020, 03:05:24 PM
I come in here at least twice a day to check for updates, and I appreciate any that I find - thanks to Howie for trying to keep us up to speed.

I find it interesting to think that any of us who have seriously followed this band for more than a few minutes can actually be surprised by things like this looming catastrophe re: the FF set.  To try to find logical reasons for the hold-up is an exercise in futility.  I agree with those who have posted that the focus should be on “what can I do to help get this released” rather than on “what could be the cause of the hold-up”.

HeyJude has explained in detail that the set is ready to go, like a huge box of candy that’s sitting on a shelf, but one or more of the store owners won’t open the doors...

And it has nothing to do with Milky Ways...

Great post. I can't say I'm surprised, I'm just annoyed at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ruby Go Home on September 29, 2020, 05:57:03 PM
It's to the point where Howie is literally writing "FEEL FLOWS" on Brian's Facebook posts. And yet some people still don't want to believe anything is wrong.
Wow, I had no idea things had gotten that dire. :'( I'm praying for this set to be released soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 30, 2020, 09:53:31 AM
I've heard rumblings that Mike has been invited to play some sort of Trump inauguration garbage in the event of a reelection. I could easily see if that invitation was the case, even if it's just something that is a possible thing that could happen for Mike without any guarantees, that Mike would want the current focus if the BRAND to be on the meat and potatoes stuff, for the media to pay less attention to the deeper material, which Mike would view as being incompatible with the "America's Band" image that he wants to project in the media.

The "America's Band" stuff is certainly being played up in the advertisements for the drive-in shows. Not that that slogan is anything new, but it seems more heavily integrated into current promo than I can remember in recent history. I don't see that as being an accident.

That well could be contributing to or causing into this FF block. Vile and disgusting.

It would also very clearly explain why Mike had such a Viagra hard-on to play that Trump Jr. associated trophy hunting show earlier this year without backing down. As I said before, he's long been trying to brown nose Trump to get something out of it in return. Narcissistic turd. And FF could well be a casualty as a direct result of this narcissism and insanity that this pathetic man is inflicting on the legacy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on September 30, 2020, 10:54:27 AM
Well, I was scrolling through Fred Vail's FB page, and happened upon an exchange about the unreleased 1970 Country Album.

If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like Fred is saying it will cost too much (about $30k) to fully produce the album, which is fair enough. However, when asked by if he could simply release it as it is, in its original form, he says it's only 2/3 complete vocally, so that's probably NOT an option.

I know I'd enjoy it either way. I thought lots of archival projects are released without being finished...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on September 30, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
So we're at "we're not getting Feel Flows because of Trump" now?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ruby Go Home on September 30, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
I've heard rumblings that Mike has been invited to play some sort of Trump inauguration garbage in the event of a reelection.

Where have you heard this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on September 30, 2020, 12:00:20 PM
I've heard rumblings that Mike has been invited to play some sort of Trump inauguration garbage in the event of a reelection. I could easily see if that invitation was the case, even if it's just something that is a possible thing that could happen for Mike without any guarantees, that Mike would want the current focus if the BRAND to be on the meat and potatoes stuff, for the media to pay less attention to the deeper material, which Mike would view as being incompatible with the "America's Band" image that he wants to project in the media.

The "America's Band" stuff is certainly being played up in the advertisements for the drive-in shows. Not that that slogan is anything new, but it seems more heavily integrated into current promo than I can remember in recent history. I don't see that as being an accident.

That well could be contributing to or causing into this FF block. Vile and disgusting.

It would also very clearly explain why Mike had such a Viagra hard-on to play that Trump Jr. associated trophy hunting show earlier this year without backing down. As I said before, he's long been trying to brown nose Trump to get something out of it in return. Narcissistic turd. And FF could well be a casualty as a direct result of this narcissism and insanity that this pathetic man is inflicting on the legacy.

This post. It's a beautiful work of art. The way we start with a rumour, and manage to extrapolate into pure disgust over this scenario we've just invented. It's magnificent. Let's just stop the thread now and bask in it's glory for a week or two.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 30, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
That you, Mike? ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 30, 2020, 12:24:49 PM
I've heard rumblings that Mike has been invited to play some sort of Trump inauguration garbage in the event of a reelection. I could easily see if that invitation was the case, even if it's just something that is a possible thing that could happen for Mike without any guarantees, that Mike would want the current focus if the BRAND to be on the meat and potatoes stuff, for the media to pay less attention to the deeper material, which Mike would view as being incompatible with the "America's Band" image that he wants to project in the media.

The "America's Band" stuff is certainly being played up in the advertisements for the drive-in shows. Not that that slogan is anything new, but it seems more heavily integrated into current promo than I can remember in recent history. I don't see that as being an accident.

That well could be contributing to or causing into this FF block. Vile and disgusting.

It would also very clearly explain why Mike had such a Viagra hard-on to play that Trump Jr. associated trophy hunting show earlier this year without backing down. As I said before, he's long been trying to brown nose Trump to get something out of it in return. Narcissistic turd. And FF could well be a casualty as a direct result of this narcissism and insanity that this pathetic man is inflicting on the legacy.

This post. It's a beautiful work of art. The way we start with a rumour, and manage to extrapolate into pure disgust over this scenario we've just invented. It's magnificent. Let's just stop the thread now and bask in it's glory for a week or two.

Someone on social media stated they heard some Mike/Trump related stuff this hinted at in some radio interview. Until I actually hear such an interview with my own ears, it would remain just a rumor, yes. And even if Mike straight up says he'd gonna play some Trump event, correct, that doesn't conclusively *prove* that the event is why the FF block is happening. I stand by my assumption that some sort of branding crap dispute is probably playing into Mike's mindset, and if there ever was a time that he'd want to keep the meat and potatoes type of mindset at the forefront of peoples' minds, and keep the "AMERICA'S BAND" ideology with him in the forefront, in the media's eyes, well this time in history would quite possibly be such a time. Most especially if the eyes of the world have the potential to be on MIKE LOVE in a massively huge way should this in fact be the case.

Not that the deeper material was ever particularly compatible with the America's Band flag waving stuff - this goes back to the great divide of the schism between the branding of this band for example in the early 90s, with fans seeing Summer in Paradise peddled as new BBs product just as the band's reputation for Pet Sounds is climbing, or Mike pushing Uncle Jesse and Mark McGrath in our faces just as Sunshine Tomorrow is making a splash. It's always been a big problem, trying to reconcile the branding.

I think Mike wants as many low information BBs fans as possible to drown out any and all dissenters, and I could easily see how someone who values what Mike seems to value would find it beneficial to his warped version of the brand to NOT have this other stuff (which he is often not at the forefront of), to be a BIG DEAL in the media's mind these days. Just look at when the not-Mike-centric Pet Sounds just hit #2 on the Rolling Stone list, Rolling Stone threw Mike under the bus in the 1st paragraph. He's a joke, and all he has to keep feeding his ego is to keep ad naseum pushing his limited version of the brand.

I remain purely disgusted by Mike having played that trophy hunting show, by his overall general support of Trump, and I remain convinced that he's brown-nosing to Trump for some reason(s). If you think some of the assumptions and extrapolations that I've made from this are off-base, well that's certainly your right. I'm not stating anything as fact, and I'm allowed an opinion just as much as you are. Until we know for sure what's going on here, every single thing is a rumor at this point, including people trying to claim that it's not Mike and that it's not at least in part an overall branding dispute. Those are rumors just the same.

At minimum I believe that a person who is as short-sighted, deluded, and narcissistic as to play a Trump-adjacent trophy hunting show would be more likely to be the type of person to believe that some short-sighted, deluded, and narcissistic reasons for junking this set are the right course of action.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 30, 2020, 01:40:52 PM
I have no idea if Mike would play a future Trump event (wouldn't surprise me of course), but the hold up on "Feel Flows" has nothing to do with anything related to that. Nothing to do with Mike's tour or live shows.

Mike has been supportive of a vile person/politician for over four years now, during which we've had numerous archival releases focusing on "non-hit" material/eras.

As I've said, the core reason for all of this is so specific that it's virtually un-guessable.  Obviously, within any possible reason for such things, you could extrapolate it to the myriad of BRI/BB political BS over the years, and the stubborn nature of some folks, and since we can't literally bore into these peoples' heads, we can't ever know for sure exactly what reasoning (or lack thereof) is going on in their heads. But, ultimately there is a very real, obvious thing happening behind the scenes, and it is being used to justify holding up this set.

As I've said, when or if people finally hear what it's all about, they'll probably all look at the resulting decision to delay this set and think "huh? why?". The core reason is very specific, and an obviously weighty/serious thing all on its own. The issue is that to most folks in the know, it isn't actually a reason why "Feel Flows" would actually need to be delayed at all. The *thing* going on behind the scenes isn't crazy or unreasonable. What's driving people nuts is that certain folk or folks are saying because of that *thing*, the set shouldn't come out right now. Most would look at the situation (in my opinion) and say "What does that thing have to do with putting this set out?"

That's why it's so frustrating, but also (as I've said many times) why I think folks have still seen a scenario where the set can come out, because the reason for the delay is not some sort of unavoidable, prohibitive reason. Those delaying the set could give the go-ahead today. And I hope they do. And even after all of this kerfuffle, I think they'd still be the hero/heroes for doing it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ruby Go Home on September 30, 2020, 02:39:05 PM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 30, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
I have no idea if Mike would play a future Trump event (wouldn't surprise me of course), but the hold up on "Feel Flows" has nothing to do with anything related to that. Nothing to do with Mike's tour or live shows.

Mike has been supportive of a vile person/politician for over four years now, during which we've had numerous archival releases focusing on "non-hit" material/eras.

As I've said, the core reason for all of this is so specific that it's virtually un-guessable.  Obviously, within any possible reason for such things, you could extrapolate it to the myriad of BRI/BB political BS over the years, and the stubborn nature of some folks, and since we can't literally bore into these peoples' heads, we can't ever know for sure exactly what reasoning (or lack thereof) is going on in their heads. But, ultimately there is a very real, obvious thing happening behind the scenes, and it is being used to justify holding up this set.

As I've said, when or if people finally hear what it's all about, they'll probably all look at the resulting decision to delay this set and think "huh? why?". The core reason is very specific, and an obviously weighty/serious thing all on its own. The issue is that to most folks in the know, it isn't actually a reason why "Feel Flows" would actually need to be delayed at all. The *thing* going on behind the scenes isn't crazy or unreasonable. What's driving people nuts is that certain folk or folks are saying because of that *thing*, the set shouldn't come out right now. Most would look at the situation (in my opinion) and say "What does that thing have to do with putting this set out?"

That's why it's so frustrating, but also (as I've said many times) why I think folks have still seen a scenario where the set can come out, because the reason for the delay is not some sort of unavoidable, prohibitive reason. Those delaying the set could give the go-ahead today. And I hope they do. And even after all of this kerfuffle, I think they'd still be the hero/heroes for doing it.


Thanks, HJ. I guess I'm about as good as guessing the reason as Mike is at writing a listenable song these days. I'm quite *glad* it's not for that specific reason I speculated, glad to be wrong about that.  Because that would seem to be an unmovable obstacle. Maybe this obstacle can still be moved.

If the tracklisting cannot directly be leaked, maybe someone from near the top indirectly hinting at the reason for the holdup could help things. Or maybe they'll simply leak out a hint out of pure spite, just to piss off the person killing the box, even if it amounts to no change. I sometimes wonder when someone near the top will just go full on charred earth and let it rip, finally having had enough, freely speaking their mind about their opinions about band stuff mainly pertaining to one particular avoider of fucking with the formula. Unrelated to FF, I think something like that is bound to happen at some point. It *almost* happened with Rocky, until someone obviously got to him. As has been seen with Trump, sometimes people break NDAs because they are just fed up. 

To say the situation of this box being potentially killed for some nonsense is a frustrating and heartbreaking situation as a fan would be a gross understatement. Someone needs to be a hero. I still think someone can pull a heroic move in this. I'm still optimistic. Once again, laugh all you want, but Stamos could be that guy. And there are probably others in or adjacent to the organization who could help too, if they cared enough or were incentivized to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2020, 02:41:01 PM
HeyJude - it seems like you know what the 'thing' in question is - is there any reason you're obliged not to share it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 30, 2020, 02:44:46 PM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.

If you think that's plausible, how do you reconcile the recent multiple social media posts from Brian's account celebrating the anniversaries of both Sunflower and Surf's Up, also posting live video of the song FEEL FLOWS from the recent tour, which is a red letter glowing dog whistle hint (to me, and to many others) that Brian is on Team Feel Flows Box Set.

I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that Melinda would be oblivious to this, and would just randomly have those posts approved, keeping the FF box set's music in the minds of Brian's followers, while Mike's social media remains 100% silent about anything whatsoever pertaining to that era or those anniversaries.

Brush all this off as a complete unrelated series of coincidences? Maybe you might do that, but I don't think that's at all likely. That's some solid circumstantial evidence to me that Melinda isn't saying "let's not release it, and instead, let's sh*t on the legacy of Brian's late brothers and keep their music locked up". No way.

I will say, that I take Brian's social media's notable omission of Mike in the post about the various members' contributions to Surf's Up as an obvious intentional f*ck you to Mike, and that shows that there are obvious issues with those 2 camps. If Mike would be holding up the set for some unrelated petty crap, I could easily imagine that deeply pissing of Melinda, whose husband already went through what must have been some soul-searching interviews talking at length about his late brothers and their music, in prepping for this box set.  

It's already been debunked earlier in this thread by people who would know that it's NOT a content issue quibbling about 1 or 2 given songs that's holding this up. And unless I'm mistaken, it appears to be heavily alluded to - again, by those would know - that it's not pertaining to liner notes either. So there appears to be actual evidence that it's NOT what you've suggested.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Join The Human Race on September 30, 2020, 02:49:14 PM
Been flowing along this thread but haven't posted until now. It is frustrating but I'm just being patient. I want more unreleased things out there; what BB fan wouldn't? But there is already so much wonderful music out there in just their catalog alone, I'm trying not to let the bad vibes and speculation get me down.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 30, 2020, 03:21:44 PM
If there is a vaild reason for the 180 on FEEL FLOWS, it would be a simple matter for the band to explain it to people. (That hasn't happened, of course.)

The "mob wife" contingent might get their noses out of joint about my assertion, of course, insisting that the band can do whatever it wants without telling anyone anything, but such a stance suggests that the Big Mob Wife (aka Mr. Suppressive Personality) actually KNOWS what's going down (and who is respnsible, and why) and is playing another weird psychological game over in St. Elba-land.

Since Brian gave extensive interviews for FEEL FLOWS, the chance that Melinda is now vetoing it is less than minuscule. What is hard to figure, however, is exactly why such a stealthy approach to this situation seems to be needed from those on the inside.

All of the above can simply be set aside, however--in the absence of concrete knowledge, all we can really do is continue to press for further info, continue to encourage the parties to resolve their differences and release FEEL FLOWS as originally conceived, and in the absence of movement on those fronts, continue to call for someone on the inside to leak the contents of the box set to the rock press in order to apply sufficient pressure to bring the matter fully into the light of day.

Some additional Facebook posts that respectfully ask about the status of FEEL FLOWS on pages where they are likely to at least be allowed to remain visible (if not answered) would also seem to be in order.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 30, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
HeyJude - it seems like you know what the 'thing' in question is - is there any reason you're obliged not to share it?

Yes. Same reason most anybody would not be able to reveal certain details/sources, etc.

But I've continued to mention that I feel comfortable saying that, for the purposes of advocating for this set, it doesn't matter. Knowing the whole back story wouldn't change anything about the main point right now being to continue to let everybody and anybody know that we want this set and that it should come out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 30, 2020, 03:28:46 PM
Maybe after all that controversy and the attention was given about Mike playing a concert for Trump Jr with Brian and Al posting a petition against it in their Facebook/Instagram accounts, maybe Mike wants a retraction from both, or he’ll not give the greenlit to release the box.
Whatever it is, I hope they can settle their differences and release the box in time this year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 30, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.

I disagree that this seems plausible given what we know from the past, but regardless of any of that, I can tell you that none of the above is accurate. Not even close.

Mike's book isn't a particularly great source for info on C50. In particular, the stories about autotune and other nitpick arguments during the tour seem, to put it politely, *incomplete*.

There was and is plenty of room for material for all members. All members shine, including Brian.

Brian has done more tracks from this era in his show than anybody.

And, I'd advise going back and fully reading the thread, at least everything since July whatever-it-was when this news broke. I've posted seemingly dozens of times by now in this thread that the tracklisting is NOT an issue with the delays. The tracklisting is not an issue with *anybody*.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 30, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
Maybe after all that controversy and the attention was given about Mike playing a concert for Trump Jr with Brian and Al posting a petition against it in their Facebook/Instagram accounts, maybe Mike wants a retraction from both, or he’ll not give the greenlit to release the box.
Whatever it is, I hope they can settle their differences and release the box in time this year.

I've already mentioned numerous times in the thread that Mike's tour is not an issue with the delays, and I've also mentioned that the trophy hunting gig early this year is not an issue either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on September 30, 2020, 03:46:42 PM
Maybe after all that controversy and the attention was given about Mike playing a concert for Trump Jr with Brian and Al posting a petition against it in their Facebook/Instagram accounts, maybe Mike wants a retraction from both, or he’ll not give the greenlit to release the box.
Whatever it is, I hope they can settle their differences and release the box in time this year.

I've already mentioned numerous times in the thread that Mike's tour is not an issue with the delays, and I've also mentioned that the trophy hunting gig early this year is not an issue either.

HeyJude, so I’m sorry about this. I totally forgot you had previously told us about it.
And thank you so much for the reply and for what you’ve been posting on this thread.
I really appreciate your comments and thoughts.
I’ll try to think in positive terms about it, hoping the box can be released this year, if there’s time to do it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
So, Mike’s been supportive of a vile person/politician for four years now? I didn’t realize he was a fan of Hillary Clinton!

Oops,forgot about keeping politics out of these threads...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 30, 2020, 04:45:49 PM
Maybe after all that controversy and the attention was given about Mike playing a concert for Trump Jr with Brian and Al posting a petition against it in their Facebook/Instagram accounts, maybe Mike wants a retraction from both, or he’ll not give the greenlit to release the box.
Whatever it is, I hope they can settle their differences and release the box in time this year.

I've already mentioned numerous times in the thread that Mike's tour is not an issue with the delays, and I've also mentioned that the trophy hunting gig early this year is not an issue either.

HeyJude, so I’m sorry about this. I totally forgot you had previously told us about it.
And thank you so much for the reply and for what you’ve been posting on this thread.
I really appreciate your comments and thoughts.
I’ll try to think in positive terms about it, hoping the box can be released this year, if there’s time to do it.

It's all good, no prob.  We should all be talking right now about how we are diving into a great boxed set instead of this. 

I think most of us are trying our best to make the set happen with limited tools.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on September 30, 2020, 06:15:30 PM
So, Mike’s been supportive of a vile person/politician for four years now? I didn’t realize he was a fan of Hillary Clinton!

Oops,forgot about keeping politics out of these threads...
It apparently is only ok when it's  anti Trump....because all the tolerance the Dems have shown.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 30, 2020, 06:24:34 PM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Auto tune is software...unless it’s something like this

https://www.sustainpunch.com/vocal-autotune-pedals/

Everytime I read the thing about “autotune devices being hooked up to the microphones” I shake my head. Read that in Mike’s book and I about wept



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 30, 2020, 10:35:42 PM
I think that was supposed to be a Tears in the Morning joke 😎
Right now, If i was Brian or Al, I would:
 hit hard at the battle that's confronting me,
knock down all the roadblocks stumbling me,
throw off all the shackles that are binding me down, down, down


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 01, 2020, 01:24:16 AM
I've been simply doing my best effort and commenting on almost every instagram post put out by Brian's Page, Mike's Page, and the Official Beach Boys Page. I even DM'd Mike's page this morning in a very complimentary way, though I know that'll vanish in to the ether. Anyone curious, I'm @hypnoticfred.

I'm trying, I'm REALLY trying. Howie, any idea if this sort of thing helps even slightly, or does it actually hinder the situation?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 01, 2020, 06:32:32 AM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Auto tune is software...unless it’s something like this

https://www.sustainpunch.com/vocal-autotune-pedals/

Everytime I read the thing about “autotune devices being hooked up to the microphones” I shake my head. Read that in Mike’s book and I about wept


I'd say that's a possibility. I doubt Mike would know the difference.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 01, 2020, 06:33:25 AM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Auto tune is software...unless it’s something like this

https://www.sustainpunch.com/vocal-autotune-pedals/

Everytime I read the thing about “autotune devices being hooked up to the microphones” I shake my head. Read that in Mike’s book and I about wept


I'd say that's a possibility. I doubt Mike would know the difference.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 01, 2020, 09:16:09 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ReggieDunbar on October 01, 2020, 09:19:14 AM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Auto tune is software...unless it’s something like this

https://www.sustainpunch.com/vocal-autotune-pedals/

Everytime I read the thing about “autotune devices being hooked up to the microphones” I shake my head. Read that in Mike’s book and I about wept



There's gotta be at least one computer running the software... So naming it a device is a easy way explaining it to the reader. It's called storytelling :)
//RD


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on October 01, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
This is pure speculation with no basis in anything but could Mike be holding it up because he wants Brian to write some new songs with him?  He complained bitterly about TWGMTR that he wasn't allowed to write head to head with Brian.  Maybe he sees this box set release as a bargaining tool to accomplish this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 01, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
This is pure speculation with no basis in anything but could Mike be holding it up because he wants Brian to write some new songs with him?  He complained bitterly about TWGMTR that he wasn't allowed to write head to head with Brian.  Maybe he sees this box set release as a bargaining tool to accomplish this?

Nah, the delay has nothing to do with any desire or plan or idea to work together on new material.

I won't dredge up all the C50 stuff from 2012, but the evidence strongly indicates Mike *talks* about wanting to write with Brian *a lot* more than he seems to actually *want* to write with Brian. He had months on the road with Brian in 2012 (Melinda, Joe Thomas, etc. were gone for most of the tour), the most time he had spent daily with Brian since like 1981, and was on a daily basis in a setting where a keyboard was always within reach, and there is zero evidence he made any overtures/efforts to write with Brian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 01, 2020, 10:09:56 AM
Is it possible that Melinda could be behind this? Sunflower and Surf's Up are considered to be some of the best group albums, with everyone getting a chance to shine. This goes against the "Brian is the sole genius of the Beach Boys" narrative, so I could see Melinda having a problem with a box set covering this period. From Mike's book, we know she interfered with the C50 tour by changing a setlist and ordering five autotune devices. If she can do that, it seems likely she can get a box set delayed.

Maybe she doesn't like the tracklist. There may not be room for both 'Til I Die (track and backing vocals) and Student Demonstration Time (alternate vocal take) and I could see her lobbying for the former.

I'm just speculating and there's no evidence for this, but it seems plausible to me.


Auto tune is software...unless it’s something like this

https://www.sustainpunch.com/vocal-autotune-pedals/

Everytime I read the thing about “autotune devices being hooked up to the microphones” I shake my head. Read that in Mike’s book and I about wept



There's gotta be at least one computer running the software... So naming it a device is a easy way explaining it to the reader. It's called storytelling :)
//RD


True, but as a producer and musician it drove me batty 🤣


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on October 01, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
What if Phil Spector's to blame? We know he and his mind gangsters were powerful enough to destroy Smile back in '67 so it's not totally out of the question that he could be making moves to delay the set from his jail cell. Very disgusting, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 01, 2020, 11:56:50 AM
Has anyone explained how the Surfin' Safari anniversary post Brian's team posted on Instagram earlier is a subtle dig at Mike holding up Feel Flows yet?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 01, 2020, 01:11:46 PM
Has anyone explained how the Surfin' Safari anniversary post Brian's team posted on Instagram earlier is a subtle dig at Mike holding up Feel Flows yet?

What was the subtle dig?  Here's the caption:

On this day in 1962, The Beach Boys released their debut album, Surfin’ Safari. While the official production credit went to Nick Venet, Brian (just twenty-years-old) and his dad Murry contributed substantially to the album’s production. Brian said he wrote the song “Surfin’” after Dennis told him “surfing’s getting really big. You ought to write a song about it.” Brian wrote or co-wrote nine of the twelve songs, including “Surfing’ Safari,” “409” and “County Fair.” Brian and the ‘Boys were just getting started …

#1962
#surfinsafari
#surfin
#capitolrecords
#nickvenet
#murrywilson
#brianwilson
#debut
#garagesurf
#20


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 01, 2020, 01:38:31 PM
Has anyone explained how the Surfin' Safari anniversary post Brian's team posted on Instagram earlier is a subtle dig at Mike holding up Feel Flows yet?

What was the subtle dig?  Here's the caption:

On this day in 1962, The Beach Boys released their debut album, Surfin’ Safari. While the official production credit went to Nick Venet, Brian (just twenty-years-old) and his dad Murry contributed substantially to the album’s production. Brian said he wrote the song “Surfin’” after Dennis told him “surfing’s getting really big. You ought to write a song about it.” Brian wrote or co-wrote nine of the twelve songs, including “Surfing’ Safari,” “409” and “County Fair.” Brian and the ‘Boys were just getting started …

#1962
#surfinsafari
#surfin
#capitolrecords
#nickvenet
#murrywilson
#brianwilson
#debut
#garagesurf
#20


I was just alluding to the people insisting that the anniversary posts for Sunflower and Surf's Up were digs at Mike, instead of just....anniversary posts that gets posted for every album by Brian's team.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 01, 2020, 01:52:32 PM

As I've said, the core reason for all of this is so specific that it's virtually un-guessable.  Obviously, within any possible reason for such things, you could extrapolate it to the myriad of BRI/BB political BS over the years, and the stubborn nature of some folks, and since we can't literally bore into these peoples' heads, we can't ever know for sure exactly what reasoning (or lack thereof) is going on in their heads. But, ultimately there is a very real, obvious thing happening behind the scenes, and it is being used to justify holding up this set.

As I've said, when or if people finally hear what it's all about, they'll probably all look at the resulting decision to delay this set and think "huh? why?". The core reason is very specific, and an obviously weighty/serious thing all on its own. The issue is that to most folks in the know, it isn't actually a reason why "Feel Flows" would actually need to be delayed at all. The *thing* going on behind the scenes isn't crazy or unreasonable. What's driving people nuts is that certain folk or folks are saying because of that *thing*, the set shouldn't come out right now.


Unguessable, hey . . . I'll take up that challenge (we could be here a while).

1. Someone's advocating that the Beach Boys should push for "Summer Time" to start on January 1 and end on Dec 31 - so that there's just more Summer to go around?

2. Okay, I'm stumped.

Seriously though - it sounds like it is more of a genuinely held opinion about what should happen, something that might/could happen in the future as opposed to a selfish ultimatum type demand. Sounds like a decision that shouldn't be rushed into, but really has marginal impact on whether this set should really be released.

Okay, I'll have another stab. It's someone wanting to finish off some unfinished material - with the addition of new vocals perhaps - and therefore not wanting the box set to come out as is - with the unfinished versions of tracks.

Dennis' tracks come to mind.

I could imagine something akin to the Beatles' "Free As A Bird" being on the table.

Otherwise, my frontrunner guess is back to someone wanting to re-record "Here Comes The Night" in the latest style, let's say a post-punk, glam metal, future ghetto funk fusion!




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on October 01, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to be worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 01, 2020, 05:27:30 PM
People would prefer not listening to HeyJude, Howie, Jon, etc.  LET’S SPECULATE!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 01, 2020, 05:30:11 PM
Brian Wilson himself could say something and still nobody would believe him. Ridiculous.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 01, 2020, 05:57:45 PM
People would prefer not listening to HeyJude, Howie, Jon, etc.  LET’S SPECULATE!!!!!
:woot :woot :woot :woot


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 01, 2020, 06:45:54 PM
Speculation is just another form of masturbation, only messier


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 01, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Based on HeyJude's latest statements, it seems like the reason is actually trivial and not what we might consider a logical reason for the set to be completely on hold. If that's the case then we haven't got much chance of guessing it. Better to keep campaigning in whatever way possible I suppose


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on October 01, 2020, 08:49:59 PM
Speculation is just another form of masturbation, only messier

One of those is also more likely to end in a positive result too


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 01, 2020, 10:07:46 PM
:lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 02, 2020, 08:45:34 AM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on October 02, 2020, 10:06:57 AM
I politely advocate for the release on a daily basis on just about every social media post they put up, but if their reasons are unguessable and seemingly unrelated to the set, I don't know what good any of it will do. If it really is more or less unrelated, but a serious situation warranting attention, that doesn't seem to jibe with the own worst enemy, finding a way to f*** things up, whole circular firing squad doing their thing...again statement. That would imply historically nonsensical, petty squabbling.

You guys know what you know. I don't know what to think, but it's sad that they still can't get it together at nearly 80 years old and 60 as a group. I've only started diving deep and getting obsessed in 2013 after I bought MiC and I'm already beyond exasperated at them. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for those who have been fans for decades, or since the very beginning. In relation to...other places...talking about entitlement and such, I'd argue if the band didn't want us talking about it or championing it's release, they only have themselves to blame for repeatedly teasing it, it's contents, possible release timelines, mentioning it in their "Official Publication of Record". Seems they have a long and storied history of teasing their fans with releases that get hopelessly delayed or yanked out of existence.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 02, 2020, 12:23:00 PM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

Thank you to keep us informed, HeyJude.

Reading your post makes me think: or it’s because of concerns about releasing it during covid (and I don’t remember if it’s been ruled out by you, Howie or Jon), to release it during Brian’s documentary promotional run (named after a Carl’s song, just like FF), or to release it to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the band (not involving a reunion tour or a new album).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 02, 2020, 12:42:41 PM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

Thank you to keep us informed, HeyJude.

Reading your post makes me think: or it’s because of concerns about releasing it during covid (and I don’t remember if it’s been ruled out by you, Howie or Jon), to release it during Brian’s documentary promotional run (named after a Carl’s song, just like FF), or to release it to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the band (not involving a reunion tour or a new album).

None of the above.

COVID would be the perfect time to release this set. Not trying to be insensitive; it's a hugely scary time, but it's literally a time where people cooped up at home are spending more on home entertainment. Plus, BRI revenue is next to zero this year due to minimal touring. A set that they've already laid all the money out for would be perfect right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 02, 2020, 12:56:30 PM
It's sure be interesting to know what the band members, their families, and the employees tasked with running their social media accounts, what all of those folks think of the fan movement wanting the set released, advocating that it would be a smart thing.

I would think that there must be a lot of infuriated people behind the scenes who are seeing enthusiastic fans creating a petition and pushing for the release, yet they are somehow staying silent. Not infuriated BY the fans, but FOR the fans, and upset that they are presumably under a directive to stay silent.

I can't help but think that at minimum, the desire is there for not just insiders like Howie and Jon, but people AT the top or VERY close to the top of the BBs food chain to want to publicly address what's going on here, and not just endlessly give the silent treatment to fans.

Once again, this is all the more reason for the tracklist to leak out.

When does a conspiracy of silence ever end well?  Mike better hope that COVID keeps going for a long while because if he reinstates Meet and Greets, I am certain that there will be fans who purchase tickets to get the chance to directly ask him why the conspiracy of silence about the set. This set is not going to fade away silently into the night.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 02, 2020, 06:33:14 PM
Relevant to perhaps nothing, I want to share a story.

Roughly 20 years ago, a co-worker at the time got tickets to see Vanilla Ice live. It was near where he lived, and the price was good, so he went. This was when Vanilla Ice was doing a tour of clubs and smaller venues - I guess to fund his real estate ventures or something.

So he's at the club, and everyone is waiting for Ice to come out. He has a DJ/mixer with him who's also acting as the emcee and trying to fire up the crowd, spinning some tracks, etc. He's yelling into the mic to give Ice his props, give him his props, etc. So the crowd does. And the guy keeps yelling at the crowd to give Ice his props, and the crowd does repeatedly...but they get tired of that bullshit and want to see Ice perform, which is what they paid to see. And Vanilla Ice is still not performing anything. The crowd is getting restless.

So the guy says it again, and my friend finally yelled back "We already gave him his props, now it's time to fucking perform!". Which Ice finally did. But the show was stopped at some point after the house lights came up and the emcee started yelling "Who's smokin' that wet? Is someone smokin' wet?". But eventually he did Ice Ice Baby which he could have done 12 times in a row and still given the crowd their show.


I guess the point is, the fans are growing tired of giving our props (i.e. continuous support and encouragement) to this band and this shelved box set and hearing dead silence. It would be nice to get at least some acknowledgement, or else fans will grow tired of repeating the same damn things over and over again for weeks if not months on end. The petition is there, the comments on all social media platforms including this forum are there, the fans have been consistently enthusiastic and active in their support for a release...It's time to f**king perform. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 02, 2020, 07:47:58 PM
Relevant to perhaps nothing, I want to share a story.

Roughly 20 years ago, a co-worker at the time got tickets to see Vanilla Ice live. It was near where he lived, and the price was good, so he went. This was when Vanilla Ice was doing a tour of clubs and smaller venues - I guess to fund his real estate ventures or something.

So he's at the club, and everyone is waiting for Ice to come out. He has a DJ/mixer with him who's also acting as the emcee and trying to fire up the crowd, spinning some tracks, etc. He's yelling into the mic to give Ice his props, give him his props, etc. So the crowd does. And the guy keeps yelling at the crowd to give Ice his props, and the crowd does repeatedly...but they get tired of that bullshit and want to see Ice perform, which is what they paid to see. And Vanilla Ice is still not performing anything. The crowd is getting restless.

So the guy says it again, and my friend finally yelled back "We already gave him his props, now it's time to fucking perform!". Which Ice finally did. But the show was stopped at some point after the house lights came up and the emcee started yelling "Who's smokin' that wet? Is someone smokin' wet?". But eventually he did Ice Ice Baby which he could have done 12 times in a row and still given the crowd their show.


I guess the point is, the fans are growing tired of giving our props (i.e. continuous support and encouragement) to this band and this shelved box set and hearing dead silence. It would be nice to get at least some acknowledgement, or else fans will grow tired of repeating the same damn things over and over again for weeks if not months on end. The petition is there, the comments on all social media platforms including this forum are there, the fans have been consistently enthusiastic and active in their support for a release...It's time to f**king perform. 

I'm surprised Mike didn't try to do a collaboration with Vanilla Ice.

"Rollin' in my Five Point Wheeeennnnnnn"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 03, 2020, 08:29:57 AM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

Perhaps it might be useful to put up some kind of FAQ on this project and everything we objectively know about it to be true.  If for the sole reason to curb all the speculation going on in this thread.  Seems in some cases we're all just talking past each other at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ken.W on October 03, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

Perhaps it might be useful to put up some kind of FAQ on this project and everything we objectively know about it to be true.  If for the sole reason to curb all the speculation going on in this thread.  Seems in some cases we're all just talking past each other at this point.

The only thing I’m taking from all of this, is that the box isn’t coming out and the reason it isn’t coming out has nothing to do with the box  🤷‍♂️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 03, 2020, 01:56:41 PM
Okay, so far we've been told the following are not the reasons for the holdup:
- making it conditional upon a new release,
- making it conditional upon a new tour,
- making it conditional upon any sort of reunion project,
- it's not based on an objection to any of the content (ie. track inclusions, liner notes, booklets, packaging etc.) I'd say it is implicit in that that the format (CD, LP, digital etc.) is not the issue either.
- it's not a timing issue (such as economic issues/concerns around covid-19) implicitly any other timing issue.
- it's not related to some fundamental question about whether copyright extension releases are viable overall.
- it's not because of any economic factor about sales expectations etc.

What we've been told it is:
- a valid concern to resolve a certain issue.
- something which most of us (or maybe it was most people who know how the industry really works) would say "huh?" or "what?" or some like term as to why someone linked this issue to the release of the box set.
- in other words, it's something that it seems to me could be resolved at a later time.

## I've paraphrased all of the above, which may mean certain important nuances in the messaging have been lost.

Pure speculation time (again)

It is my summation then that it could be Carl's estate holding things up, because they may be a bit further removed from the industry than the others.

IF that is correct, my sincere apologies to Mike Love for the nasty things I may have posted suggesting it was him holding things up, with the proviso that such apology does not extend to the rest of the insults I hurled at Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 03, 2020, 03:18:06 PM
HeyJude - it seems like you know what the 'thing' in question is - is there any reason you're obliged not to share it?

Yes. Same reason most anybody would not be able to reveal certain details/sources, etc.

But I've continued to mention that I feel comfortable saying that, for the purposes of advocating for this set, it doesn't matter. Knowing the whole back story wouldn't change anything about the main point right now being to continue to let everybody and anybody know that we want this set and that it should come out.

I'm getting a strange feeling reading all these latest posts that someone in the group is ill.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 03, 2020, 06:48:01 PM
HeyJude - it seems like you know what the 'thing' in question is - is there any reason you're obliged not to share it?

Yes. Same reason most anybody would not be able to reveal certain details/sources, etc.

But I've continued to mention that I feel comfortable saying that, for the purposes of advocating for this set, it doesn't matter. Knowing the whole back story wouldn't change anything about the main point right now being to continue to let everybody and anybody know that we want this set and that it should come out.

I'm getting a strange feeling reading all these latest posts that someone in the group is ill.

No,  nothing to do with illness.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 03, 2020, 07:02:39 PM
Considering what has been debunked, it would seem this is perhaps due to some weird behind-the-scenes machinations with BRI, maybe something to do with power or overall control of something(s), during which time the agreement to release this set somehow slipped through. It seems like some sort of nonsense that the entire group had to agree to and somebody is being a holdout for unrelated but ultimately asinine reasons.  Perhaps some tax/royalty thing as a whole for the band, choice of which lawyers to use for the brand, who controls what, or some other lame business related garbage has resulted in a hangup.  Maybe something in that ballpark.

Which is especially ironic considering both Brian and Dennis repeatedly throughout the history of this band avoided business meetings and truly gave no shits about things like that. The gave many shits about ART. And now something like that is very possibly causing some of those very guys' greatest music to be mutilated or killed completely.

If the holdup isn't directly related to the box, and is just purely about some other thing that is being a roadblock, it would seem that whichever member is holding things up clearly doesn't ultimately value the contents on the box, and feels that it's fine to screw over the legacy of the dead Wilson brothers, not to mention the entire band/brand, in an effort to get their way about some unrelated thing. The elderly fans to whom this set would mean the world, who may not be around to hear the music at all unless it comes out soon, clearly don't mean a damn to whoever is responsible.

Whatever reason it turns out to be, I don't see how this above would be an untrue statement. Somebody in the band thinks that it's more important to get their way about an unrelated thing, and finds that to be more important than the music on this box or the positive effect it would have on the legacy, let alone the positive effect it would have on fans who are going through the darkest of times during Covid. This, coming from "Mr. Positivity", a moniker that actually beats the irony factor of Ellen's "Queen of Nice" by several light years.

And once again, if there's anybody in the band who has consistently shown they have their priorities out of whack, we all know who that is. I don't know that anybody has poo-poo'ed the claim that the set is being used as a pawn in some fashion, for some envious member scheming to get their way about some other unrelated matter.

It's truly sick. If this set winds up not coming out, then 2020 will be the year Mike DID follow through on his decision to release his ridiculous "viral Super Bowl" song that NOBODY wanted or cared about, and decided NOT to release a giant amount of amazing precious music that EVERYBODY wanted. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

It ALWAYS comes back to that Jack Rieley quote. EVERY TIME.  Put a pathological egomaniac in a band (or hell, in charge of the country), stir, let simmer, and watch the ultimately atrocious results, like some demented science experiment. We've been watching the very results that Jack so wisely spoke about in unbelievably spot-on fashion for many, many decades.  F*cking tragic.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 03, 2020, 08:21:05 PM
HeyJude - it seems like you know what the 'thing' in question is - is there any reason you're obliged not to share it?

Yes. Same reason most anybody would not be able to reveal certain details/sources, etc.

But I've continued to mention that I feel comfortable saying that, for the purposes of advocating for this set, it doesn't matter. Knowing the whole back story wouldn't change anything about the main point right now being to continue to let everybody and anybody know that we want this set and that it should come out.

I'm getting a strange feeling reading all these latest posts that someone in the group is ill.

No,  nothing to do with illness.
Good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on October 04, 2020, 08:37:04 AM
..


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on October 04, 2020, 08:38:39 AM
Relevant to perhaps nothing, I want to share a story.

Roughly 20 years ago, a co-worker at the time got tickets to see Vanilla Ice live. It was near where he lived, and the price was good, so he went. This was when Vanilla Ice was doing a tour of clubs and smaller venues - I guess to fund his real estate ventures or something.

So he's at the club, and everyone is waiting for Ice to come out. He has a DJ/mixer with him who's also acting as the emcee and trying to fire up the crowd, spinning some tracks, etc. He's yelling into the mic to give Ice his props, give him his props, etc. So the crowd does. And the guy keeps yelling at the crowd to give Ice his props, and the crowd does repeatedly...but they get tired of that bullshit and want to see Ice perform, which is what they paid to see. And Vanilla Ice is still not performing anything. The crowd is getting restless.

So the guy says it again, and my friend finally yelled back "We already gave him his props, now it's time to fucking perform!". Which Ice finally did. But the show was stopped at some point after the house lights came up and the emcee started yelling "Who's smokin' that wet? Is someone smokin' wet?". But eventually he did Ice Ice Baby which he could have done 12 times in a row and still given the crowd their show.


I guess the point is, the fans are growing tired of giving our props (i.e. continuous support and encouragement) to this band and this shelved box set and hearing dead silence. It would be nice to get at least some acknowledgement, or else fans will grow tired of repeating the same damn things over and over again for weeks if not months on end. The petition is there, the comments on all social media platforms including this forum are there, the fans have been consistently enthusiastic and active in their support for a release...It's time to f**king perform. 

I'm surprised Mike didn't try to do a collaboration with Vanilla Ice.

"Rollin' in my Five Point Wheeeennnnnnn"

Please, don't give him ideas...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 04, 2020, 01:13:55 PM
Considering what has been debunked, it would seem this is perhaps due to some weird behind-the-scenes machinations with BRI, maybe something to do with power or overall control of something(s), during which time the agreement to release this set somehow slipped through. It seems like some sort of nonsense that the entire group had to agree to and somebody is being a holdout for unrelated but ultimately asinine reasons.  Perhaps some tax/royalty thing as a whole for the band, choice of which lawyers to use for the brand, who controls what, or some other lame business related garbage has resulted in a hangup.  Maybe something in that ballpark.


I must say this explanation, what I'd call a BRI constitutional reform agenda, did occur to me as a possibility that hasn't been excluded yet.

It may also be something like long-term investment or divestment decision - could have something to do with fringe assets held by BRI - or some other business decision.

It could have something to do with the relationship with Capitol/UM.

I don't think we are going to find out for a few years, but I'm hoping whatever it is - based on what we're hearing, it can't be resolved quickly or there is a serious deadlock - the party or parties who are holding out can re-examine the need for it's resolution before this release is approved and realize that it can still be resolved after the release.

It sounds to me like it is not so much a deliberate ultimatum using this box as leverage, and more of just a misunderstanding about possible other ways to resolve the issue.

In order for the box set to come out, it sounds like what is required is a reassessment of the situation by that party/those parties.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 05, 2020, 01:08:11 AM
I touched on this many pages ago but I don’t think it was commented on. The whole group is near 80. Could certain parties want a good deal now (and payment now) for future releases? They may not be around to negotiate future releases so are putting pressure on while they can.

Just a thought.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 05, 2020, 12:14:52 PM
Actually I had a vision last night of a man on a flaming surfboard hovering in the sky.

He said "I am the music, I yearn to be heard. When you hear me, you complete me".

I said "that's great, weird guy on a surfboard in the sky in my vision, but what is the holdup with the Feel Flows box set?"

He said, "great question Thetojo - the answer is almost unguessable"

I said that's why I'm asking.

He said "they can't agree on whether or not to allow the name "The Beach Boys" be licensed to a live band that doesn't include an original Beach Boy."

I said "Huh?, What? That's got nothing to do with . . ."

He cut me off and said "I know, but are you surprised?"

I said " tell me one more thing, what are next weekend's lottery numbers?"

That's when he disappeared.

Sorry folks, I forgot to ask about the track listing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 05, 2020, 07:07:10 PM
All this talk about "leverage" and "holding out" for whatever deals strikes me as ludicrous.  This isn't Smile.  This isn't Pet Sounds.    The market for this set is minuscule.  The number of people who worldwide who are genuinely pining for this set is tiny (like a few thousand).  In short, if one or more of the BRI principals truly believes that holding up this set gives him some sort of leverage over anything, he's delusional.  (which, considering the history of the group, is actually more likely than not  :lol  )


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 06, 2020, 03:23:28 AM
Quote
As I've said, when or if people finally hear what it's all about, they'll probably all look at the resulting decision to delay this set and think "huh? why?". The core reason is very specific, and an obviously weighty/serious thing all on its own. The issue is that to most folks in the know, it isn't actually a reason why "Feel Flows" would actually need to be delayed at all. The *thing* going on behind the scenes isn't crazy or unreasonable. What's driving people nuts is that certain folk or folks are saying because of that *thing*, the set shouldn't come out right now. Most would look at the situation (in my opinion) and say "What does that thing have to do with putting this set out?"

As we all are speculating, let us remember this quote (which I wish could be stickied to every page of this thread) from HeyJude. There is a serious “thing” going on behind the scenes and the delay of this boxset is being caused by that “thing” even though the “thing” has nothing to do with the boxset. When/if we ever hear the reason and we are left saying “huh? Why?” I can only imagine it is something that makes no logical sense in regards to the boxset. It isn’t illness, it isn’t COVID, it probably isn’t leverage. But it’s also not a trivial matter.

In any case, with this information I think my speculating days are over. Where that leaves me is just sad that we are probably never going to see this set. The months keep ticking by with no positive news. This would be the time to announce and start a marketing campaign for a Christmas release, but nothing has come up. No one in the band talks about this set (granted, very few interviews have taken place due to COVID).

HUGE thanks to everyone who continues to do all that they can to try and get this set released. The person who made the petition, you got 1500 fans unified for an amazing cause - unifying such a diverse group is a huge accomplishment on its own. And thanks to all who have (and continue) to use social media to get the word out about the set.

I’m not giving up hope yet, but as the days tick by, as it gets cooler out, leaves are changing, I am more and more grieved by the lack of any positive news. I guess all we can do is keep talking about the set - but with each day it does get harder to talk about a topic we have made 1,894 posts about already.

Thanks HeyJude for your insights. Hopefully we get some positive news soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 06, 2020, 07:39:04 AM
All this talk about "leverage" and "holding out" for whatever deals strikes me as ludicrous.  This isn't Smile.  This isn't Pet Sounds.    The market for this set is minuscule.  The number of people who worldwide who are genuinely pining for this set is tiny (like a few thousand).  In short, if one or more of the BRI principals truly believes that holding up this set gives him some sort of leverage over anything, he's delusional.  (which, considering the history of the group, is actually more likely than not  :lol  )

It's true. Bruce is holding the KTSA 40th deluxe set back purely for leverage over his range of designer shorts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on October 06, 2020, 07:10:55 PM
I liked "TheTojo's" dream about a Beach Boy-less group touring under the Beach Boys name.  It could well be the case.

In the same vein, maybe Mike is finally tired of paying Brian, Alan, and Carl's estate a licensing fee whenever he tours as The Beach Boys?  Perhaps he's trying to get that fee reduced or cancelled?

Both scenarios certainly fit the mold of not having anything to do with the box set, but being a legitimate concern that someone, (that being Mike,) would like changed.


Love and merci,

Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 07, 2020, 05:38:59 AM
Jude's still-cryptic revelations strongly suggest that initial speculations about the hold-up of FEEL FLOWS made many pages back in this thread were on the money, both figuratively and literally.

Of course it's both a shame and a sham if a set such as FEEL FLOWS has been held hostage to any other demands that purportedly aggrieved parties may be making.

I'd suggest that those who are directly engaging with social media outlets take an approach that references these scenarios in what they post; something on the order of "Can you please confirm the information trickling out that strongly suggests that FEEL FLOWS is being held hostage to some other set of internal issues that have nothing to do with the music itself? Making this situation clear to the public is one of the best ways to apply pressure to those who've made FEEL FLOWS into "only a pawn in the(ir) game."

Also it would be useful if our experts here could weigh in on what they think the "drop dead date" is for putting the physical box set into production in order to meet a December 31 deadline (thus covering the copyright issues).

We also need to dig into the reports that the set might be broken up, which doesn't track with the more recent notions about it being hostaged to some unrelated corporate wrangling. Social messages should also address that issue and strongly advise against such occurring, indicating that the fan base is not going to be nearly as responsive to piecemeal releases of this material when a more comprehensive approach had been undertaken and signed off on by the principals.

Even though there is much else going on in the fraught world of the USA, we need to keep the pressure on in order to save America's band from going under the waves AGAIN.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 07, 2020, 07:03:59 AM
I'd suggest that those who are directly engaging with social media outlets take an approach that references these scenarios in what they post; something on the order of "Can you please confirm the information trickling out that strongly suggests that FEEL FLOWS is being held hostage to some other set of internal issues that have nothing to do with the music itself? Making this situation clear to the public is one of the best ways to apply pressure to those who've made FEEL FLOWS into "only a pawn in the(ir) game."

I get that we're all frustrated by the wait. I want to hold this set in my own hands as much as anyone else here, but this suggestion above is the wrong way to approach the release dilemma. Pushing the artists to respond to fan rumors will only make them less willing to move on FF. We need to let them know there's an audience that's beyond eager for this product -- in a positive manner. Convince them how much we want to hear it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 07, 2020, 07:07:54 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 07, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
I liked "TheTojo's" dream about a Beach Boy-less group touring under the Beach Boys name.  It could well be the case.

In the same vein, maybe Mike is finally tired of paying Brian, Alan, and Carl's estate a licensing fee whenever he tours as The Beach Boys?  Perhaps he's trying to get that fee reduced or cancelled?

Both scenarios certainly fit the mold of not having anything to do with the box set, but being a legitimate concern that someone, (that being Mike,) would like changed.


Love and merci,

Dan Lega

There's nothing going on regarding touring licensing fees. Those fees have been the thing keeping that ship going for 22 years now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 07, 2020, 08:46:08 AM
I'd suggest that those who are directly engaging with social media outlets take an approach that references these scenarios in what they post; something on the order of "Can you please confirm the information trickling out that strongly suggests that FEEL FLOWS is being held hostage to some other set of internal issues that have nothing to do with the music itself? Making this situation clear to the public is one of the best ways to apply pressure to those who've made FEEL FLOWS into "only a pawn in the(ir) game."

I get that we're all frustrated by the wait. I want to hold this set in my own hands as much as anyone else here, but this suggestion above is the wrong way to approach the release dilemma. Pushing the artists to respond to fan rumors will only make them less willing to move on FF. We need to let them know there's an audience that's beyond eager for this product -- in a positive manner. Convince them how much we want to hear it.

I don't know that I'd word such things precisely the way they are referenced above, but generally speaking I don't think the above suggestion to politely ask that question on social media (both directly and sort of rhetorically on one's own social media platforms) is out of line.

The point isn't to throw random "fan rumors" at band members. Rather, it's about taking some key information we're being told by reputable, reliable sources and pitching it back to the band members not only to try to get some answers, but also to *let those band members know* that fans now know something is up. We need them to know that we know. Trust me, they know now that we know, and they know these aren't "fan rumors."

Obviously, this thread has also had a ton of incorrect guesses and rumors, and if people are pitching *that* stuff directly to band members, that wouldn't be as productive I suppose (though they'd have to then realize that the genesis of even incorrect rumor is the *correct* reports that this set is being stalled).

I obviously can't speak to guessing how a given band member might react to fans asking them these type of questions. But if a polite "so what's up with this boxed set?" type of posts would somehow make any band members, presumably out of spite, then *less likely* to greenlight such a set, well then we're all kinda already screwed then, because if this band is not only clueless as to their fan base but also actively disdainful of it to the point of spitefully canceling releases, then there's nothing left to do with these guys and nothing left to say. At that point they won't deserve fans.

Thankfully, I know at least some members/shareholders *don't* operate like that.

What's going on behind the scenes is such that I don't think a hand full of fans asking about the set is going to endanger the set. Polite, but firm posts asking about the set will, again, let them know that we know. The point is to help them figure out releasing the set is a win-win-win for everybody.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 07, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
If they really know now that we know, it’s a great thing.
But if they know, why they can’t give the green light to release it?
Why they still act like they don’t know that we as fans want it so much?
I hope after some comments in every post they did since the news about this situation might help them to finally release it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 07, 2020, 10:35:03 AM
To those ITK: Would fans knowing the reason why the set is blocked actually hinder it from ever being realised?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 07, 2020, 12:15:55 PM
The only wrong thing that anyone can do in a public setting would be to point fingers, even if we are 95+% certain who is the instigator of this situation. (Note: SS and other boards are only semi-public settings, since no band members participate directly except in the rarest of cases.)

Here's a question: many folks from other BB and BB-related boards have followed up by signing the petition and/or placing notes on social media? If a sizable portion of the folks who spend a good bit of their time with the BB's music aren't willing to do even that, then they are failing to follow Emdeeh's suggested strategy. It would be akin to  American fans not voting in the upcoming election.

Having chosen to cut ties with those folk who left SS, I am 100% the wrong person to answer such a question, but several folks here could probably come up with a credible estimate on the percentage of "passive" fans. Heck, we really don't know if we've manage to maximize the petition participation from those who post and lurk on SS...

In the light of all that,  those folks who are ultra-passionate about this situation should press further, but within prescribed limits of respect and decorum. That should not preclude making it clear, as Jude says, that we know now that "something strange is up" regarding this release being caught in an odd kind of crossfire. Urging the band to resolve this matter so that the release can proceed as planned is not stepping over any line--it's a good bit less interventionist than suggesting the track listing be leaked. Assuming that Jude's description is accurate, such a revelation would not address the actual issue that's responsible for the hold-up.

That said, I still think the track listing should be leaked, because it will galvanize a sub-set of fans who've be reluctant to engage with the situation. Once they see exactly what is at stake, they'll be more inclined to jump in.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 07, 2020, 05:31:45 PM
I might know something. I don't know if it's connected to the Feel Flows hold up, but I know of something recent in Beach Boy World that isn't directly related all to the box set but would certainly fit the problem slot, on the basis that the reason is another issue entirely that would make you go "huh?" trying to join the dots.

If it is what I think it is, a flimsy excuse to not release anything new until the thing gets resolved is the only way I can reconcile it. But it might not be what I think it is.
Something recent in Beach Boy World? Yeah, i might know what that is, too.

Then again, I might not. But if I don't know it, I sure hope someone does. Or maybe someone else thinks that they know - but in reality, they don't. And the ones who know that they know are keeping quiet. Problem is, even the ones who know that they know probably don't know.
Am I being clear? For, to examine the non-release of the FF box requires tremendous energy and discipline.
But then why should anyone listen to me, or should I speak, since I know nothing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 07, 2020, 06:17:25 PM
Is this occurrence a matter of public record? If not, is there any reason it shouldn't be discussed publicly?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on October 07, 2020, 08:40:18 PM
This box set really could have been the one shining light in this otherwise god awful year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 08, 2020, 06:54:55 AM
This box set really could have been the one shining light in this otherwise god awful year

It would be great if the band could read a comment like this and finally would give the green light to release the box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on October 08, 2020, 08:06:20 AM
"Am I being clear? For, to examine the non-release of the FF box requires tremendous energy and discipline.
But then why should anyone listen to me, or should I speak, since I know nothing."


….somebody's seen Head at least as many times as I



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 08, 2020, 09:06:26 AM
This box set really could have been the one shining light in this otherwise god awful year

If FEEL FLOWS manages to be released on Carl's birthday, it will be for BB fans a lot like what Apollo 8 was for those who lived through 1968--a moment of healing that helped make it possible to keep "Goin' On." Hope springs eternal for a better world, and it would be a better world with this box set available for all to enjoy.

Not to tell Joel G. what to write in his updates...  :smokin ...but finding a way to convey that emotion--the special essence that sets BBs music apart from everyone else--is something that might connect in that way, particularly if people will post it all over social media.

We really have to try everything we can think of in order to help move the needle on this, folks...

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 08, 2020, 10:06:40 AM
This box set really could have been the one shining light in this otherwise god awful year

If FEEL FLOWS manages to be released on Carl's birthday, it will be for BB fans a lot like what Apollo 8 was for those who lived through 1968--a moment of healing that helped make it possible to keep "Goin' On." Hope springs eternal for a better world, and it would be a better world with this box set available for all to enjoy.

Not to tell Joel G. what to write in his updates...  :smokin ...but finding a way to convey that emotion--the special essence that sets BBs music apart from everyone else--is something that might connect in that way, particularly if people will post it all over social media.

We really have to try everything we can think of in order to help move the needle on this, folks...

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

I started following FreeFeelFlows on Twitter.  It keeps posting live versions of songs from this era and has directly asked the question about the Feel Flows box set to the Beach Boys Twitter accounts.  I doubt many of the guys actually run their own accounts though, so who knows if they even see stuff like that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 08, 2020, 01:42:08 PM
Stamos just replied to FreeFeelFlows on twitter:

https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1314302473104842753


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 08, 2020, 01:49:34 PM
Does this mean John's onboard with us? A hopeful note...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 08, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
Stamos just replied to FreeFeelFlows on twitter:

https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1314302473104842753

Well I'll be the Monkey's Uncle Jesse.

Holy. Crap.

Did Stamos actually just save the day for FF?! Not that his response points a finger as far as why a blockade would be lifted, but still that is fantastic.

For those who haven't clicked the Twitter link, Stamos said "soon-ish" in response to when FF was gonna be released.

This means of course that without a doubt he was previously aware of the box and its existence. Which makes sense considering what a fan he is of Dennis's music from that era. We knew he had/has Mike's ear. Stamos is a superfan, so he is in the best position to help grease the wheels, IMO.

The first bit of good news in a good long while.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 08, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
To be clear, it's unclear what Stamos is referring to when he says "soon-ish." He may be saying he's going to ask Mike about it "soon-ish", as that's part of the question he was responding to. It appears Stamos is doing two of those drive-in concerts with Mike later this month, so I'm wondering if Stamos is saying he'll soon be asking Mike about it.

But let's hope this helps shake something loose.....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 08, 2020, 02:00:37 PM
To be clear, it's unclear what Stamos is referring to when he says "soon-ish." He may be saying he's going to ask Mike about it "soon-ish", as that's part of the questions he was responding to.

But let's hope this helps shake something loose.....

This is true. But at least at the minimum it would seem to indicate that Stamos could help move this along in a positive direction, if it isn't already moving that way already. We shall see. Wow.

As I said earlier, John Stamos could be the hero in this situation if he wanted to be. And if this band and its legacy means as much to him as I tend to think it does, there's no decent reason why he wouldn't throw his efforts behind it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on October 08, 2020, 02:32:01 PM
This is literally the closest we've come to good news regarding this set in months. I am quietly holding hope for more good word.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 08, 2020, 02:39:59 PM
To be clear, it's unclear what Stamos is referring to when he says "soon-ish." He may be saying he's going to ask Mike about it "soon-ish", as that's part of the question he was responding to. It appears Stamos is doing two of those drive-in concerts with Mike later this month, so I'm wondering if Stamos is saying he'll soon be asking Mike about it.

But let's hope this helps shake something loose.....


That’s how I read it as too


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on October 08, 2020, 03:52:03 PM
Stamos just replied to FreeFeelFlows on twitter:

https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1314302473104842753


OK that is somthing I guess


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on October 08, 2020, 04:48:37 PM
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JaiGuruDev on October 08, 2020, 04:56:30 PM
Smiley Smile Forums: Mr. Capitol?

Capitol Records: I am extraordinarily busy, Smiley.

Smiley Smile Forums: I just wanted to ask about the Feel Flows set, the 50th Anniversary boxset for the Beach Boys. When do we get it?

Capitol Records: You don't

Smiley Smile Forums: Why not?

Capitol Records: We're only releasing 3 tracks.

Smiley Smile Forums: What 3 tracks? You have to release all the songs, right guys?

Capitol Records: Wrong, sir! WRONG! Under the US Copyright Act signed in 1976, it states quite clearly that all copyright won't expire IF - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy! - "Copyright in sound recordings and television broadcasts is not calculated with reference to the life of an author. " et cetera, et cetera..."Copyright in sound recordings expires 50 years from the end of the year in which the recording was made UNLESS THE RECORDING IS PUBLISHED DURING THAT 50 YEAR PERIOD!! It's ALL there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You PIRATED Beach Boys songs! You UPLOADED them to Youtube, which now has to be claimed and shut down, so you get... NOTHING!!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY, SIR!!!

Smiley Smile Forums: You're a crook. You're a liar and swindler! That's what you are! How can you do a thing like this?! Music that will change the way the Beach Boys are viewed as a musical entity, and then you smash  all our hopes to pieces?! YOU'RE AN INHUMAN MONSTER!!

Capitol Records: I SAID "GOOD DAY!!!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 08, 2020, 04:57:54 PM
 8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D

While Stamos has plenty of detractors, and while I personally think it's silly and beneath the band to keep trotting him out endlessly and promoting him on stage more than other things, I personally have no problem with the guy as a dude, and he seems like a decent enough fellow who just happened to get lucky by being in the right place and the right time, and also being persistent with his fandom in the mid-1980s, helping give the band a shot in the arm purely in terms of getting the name out there during a time which they were in a slump when it came to fame.

If he helps move this release along, then more power to him, and he would be worthy of everybody's respect for making any sort of effort, especially if the effort pays off.

IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.

Stamos is a total anomaly, and maybe he serves a roll a bit like David Marks, where he can to some degree freely move between the Wilson/Love camps. Not that he's some massively "beloved" figure in the Brian Wilson camp I wouldn't think, yet he's probably the biggest outright fanboy of Dennis Wilson that exists in the world of people who are important to Mike Love. So in that sense, he seems like he helps bridge the deep deep fractures within this band just a little bit. Maybe more than a little bit.

But to answer your question on the whole, I think he remains a joke to a lot of people and I think lots of fans would just roll eyes at him once more. But they might grudgingly thank the guy anyway.

John Stamos does not strike me as a big egotistical guy, so I'm not sure that he's seeking adulation and respect from legions of fans of this band, yet perhaps it might not be a bad idea for him to think about how much more respect he would get across-the-board if he helped move this along. He would literally be a hero. Yet even if that were to happen I somehow doubt the details of that would ever come to light. So he would have to do it mainly for feeling it's the right thing to do, not to mention the fact that I'm sure he'd love to listen to those FF tracks himself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 08, 2020, 05:52:30 PM
Before Stamos came in to save the day (I read it as the set is coming out soon-ish), this thread had reached peak ridiculousness.

"I know something, and it could be very important but I can't say what it is. Why am I posting this? What is the purpose of this post? Well, it's nothing else than to tell you that I know something and you don't, and that I'm very important and can't tell you."

Folks, there's no point in telling people that you know something if you can't tell them what it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 08, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
Before Stamos came in to save the day (I read it as the set is coming out soon-ish), this thread had reached peak ridiculousness.

"I know something, and it could be very important but I can't say what it is. Why am I posting this? What is the purpose of this post? Well, it's nothing else than to tell you that I know something and you don't, and that I'm very important and can't tell you."

Folks, there's no point in telling people that you know something if you can't tell them what it is.

Nobody was insinuating that they were important for having insider information. Not in the slightest. Whatsoever.  

We should be grateful for someone to do what they could to steer us away from ideas that were apparently incorrect assumptions and hypotheses. Just because somebody is sworn to secrecy about what the answer is, doesn't mean they can't respectfully comment on what the answer isn't. Swearing not to divulge what the answer isn't was probably not part of the deal when they learned what the answer was. Do you literally think anybody in this thread was motivated by any reason other than just wanting to help?

It's an incredibly frustrating situation of course, but nobody should hold anything against those who are literally just trying to help in the limited way they can. I'm sure those with inside information would LIKE to comment and state exactly what the issue is, but it's not as simple as that.

Better to know what the reasons *aren't* than to not know one iota or tiny morsel of information one way or another.  Yet somehow you're disputing this. Gaining more knowledge - including knowing what is NOT causing the FF block - helps, even a little. And it's brainstorming in this very thread that led people to abandon focusing on confirmed non-issues, and fortunately that also led to the Twitter tagging of Stamos, which has led us to a hint of hope.

Was there also no point in Al talking about the set way back when since he didn't divulge every single piece of info on the set and tracklisting that he knew at the time? Let's pile on Al too, while we're at it.  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Reverberation on October 08, 2020, 06:56:53 PM
Stamos just replied to FreeFeelFlows on twitter:

https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1314302473104842753

Well, this is most reassuring. It's not much, but a least it seems that all that stuff that stood to potentially be lost, is now hopefully saved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 09, 2020, 01:15:47 AM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 09, 2020, 06:13:21 AM
Smiley Smile Forums: Mr. Capitol?

Capitol Records: I am extraordinarily busy, Smiley.

Smiley Smile Forums: I just wanted to ask about the Feel Flows set, the 50th Anniversary boxset for the Beach Boys. When do we get it?

Capitol Records: You don't

Smiley Smile Forums: Why not?

Capitol Records: We're only releasing 3 tracks.

Smiley Smile Forums: What 3 tracks? You have to release all the songs, right guys?

Capitol Records: Wrong, sir! WRONG! Under the US Copyright Act signed in 1976, it states quite clearly that all copyright won't expire IF - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy! - "Copyright in sound recordings and television broadcasts is not calculated with reference to the life of an author. " et cetera, et cetera..."Copyright in sound recordings expires 50 years from the end of the year in which the recording was made UNLESS THE RECORDING IS PUBLISHED DURING THAT 50 YEAR PERIOD!! It's ALL there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You PIRATED Beach Boys songs! You UPLOADED them to Youtube, which now has to be claimed and shut down, so you get... NOTHING!!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY, SIR!!!

Smiley Smile Forums: You're a crook. You're a liar and swindler! That's what you are! How can you do a thing like this?! Music that will change the way the Beach Boys are viewed as a musical entity, and then you smash  all our hopes to pieces?! YOU'RE AN INHUMAN MONSTER!!

Capitol Records: I SAID "GOOD DAY!!!"
I look forward to that ride in the glass elevator that offers a great aerial view of the Capitol Tower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 09, 2020, 06:15:51 AM
Don't know if this has been pointed out, but Van Dyke Parks was asked (not by me) on Twitter (seeing as he was key to getting the BBs signed to Warner) about the box set. Van Dyke replied that he had no knowledge of it. I posted a link to my first article.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 08:06:57 AM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 09, 2020, 09:20:17 AM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

Well, that would be incredibly disappointing.....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 10:02:50 AM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.

If some insider, like Stamos, actually somehow moves the needle behind the scene and GETS the set released INTACT... as opposed to the alternative for the majority of the music to never see the light of day... well yeah, they'd be  friggin' hero to the legacy in my book. Doesn't mean that they helped "finish SMiLE", but they'd still be worthy of much respect for doing so. To think otherwise, that's crazy talk.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 10:07:50 AM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

That's absolutely awful. This tells me that somebody behind the scenes WANTS Dennis' material gone from the set for some reason, or might somehow agree to the FF release if the Dennis material is extracted from it. Terrible.

I still say that even if the reasons why the set is being delayed/blocked are not directly about Dennis, and are about some totally unrelated thing not having to do with the set itself... that there is still a crap ton of petty, envious jealousy aimed at the late Dennis Wilson by a living member of the band.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who thinks this is absolutely impossible and completely untrue must believe in the tooth fairy.

And who knows how that could affect any number of things indirectly. That living member is seriously the most jealous guy in the history of rock music, and he's got more than one Wilson brother to be jealous of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on October 09, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
Boxset or not, the Dennis material has to be released before it falls into public domain. Taking it from the box only means that it would have to come out digitally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
Boxset or not, the Dennis material has to be released before it falls into public domain. Taking it from the box only means that it would have to come out digitally.

Depends on what it is. Not everything on this boxed set would have to be protected. An obvious example would be alternate takes/mixes/versions of songs that have already been published.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:31:50 PM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

Well, that would be incredibly disappointing.....

It most certainly would......


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 09, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

I'm having trouble understanding the connection here.

If details are being shared with John Stamos, then Dennis Wilson's material will be removed from the set?

I'm assuming you're talking about Mike. Why is the connection to Stamos being related to this comment? Don't we know that Mike is involved with the box set anyway? What does Stamos' knowledge have to do with anything? Couldn't we know that Mike could wipe out Dennis' material even without knowing that Stamos is aware of what's going on?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 12:33:29 PM
I can just see some schmuck behind the scenes justifying this as saying "well, that's Dennis solo material, it doesn't belong on a BEACH BOYS set".

Other than straight up saying "I'm jealous and my ego hurty wurty", what other possible "justification" could be given by someone in power for removing Dennis material, other than saying that "solo" material doesn't belong on a BBs set?

The only way I could see this not being a total disaster is if it leads to Dennis material being released on its own, as a standalone thing.

I still think if the set gets butchered, we're likely to lose more than *just* the Dennis wholly unreleased songs. We'd probably lose alternate mixes and other cool stuff like that of previously-released songs. Absolutely sucks. If someone is doing this for ego reasons, they are truly a POS.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:41:03 PM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.

If some insider, like Stamos, actually somehow moves the needle behind the scene and GETS the set released INTACT... as opposed to the alternative for the majority of the music to never see the light of day... well yeah, they'd be  friggin' hero to the legacy in my book. Doesn't mean that they helped "finish SMiLE", but they'd still be worthy of much respect for doing so. To think otherwise, that's crazy talk.

I have advocated for years that Stamos should stop his weekend-rock-star shtick and use his celebrity (and celebrity fan) status, not to mention Mike's obsession with him, to further some good causes in the BB world (meaning advocating for archival releases instead of trying to produce lame TV shows or Broadway shows that try to milk the BB song catalog).

Stamos could have been the hero of all BB fans if he had taken that tact at any point over all these years.

That all being said, having processed this Stamos bit and spoken to various folks, I don't sense Stamos is or will be having any impact on any aspect of this release, whether it's a decision to release it, or any potential alterations of track listings.

The main point of interest in his tweet yesterday was simply an alternative source seemingly confirming that he knows about the set and presumably is aware (as I'm sure all the BBs are at this point) that fans know that A) The set exists and is ready to go, and B) The set is currently in some form of limbo as far as a release.

If there is a source that Stamos is able to speak to who will wipe all or nearly all of the Dennis material off this set, I don't believe Stamos has much if any ability to change *that*.

It goes without saying that we can all *hope* that Stamos would have the power to get the band to release the set in its original incarnation. I just don't think Stamos having that sort of power is very likely.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 12:45:40 PM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.

If some insider, like Stamos, actually somehow moves the needle behind the scene and GETS the set released INTACT... as opposed to the alternative for the majority of the music to never see the light of day... well yeah, they'd be  friggin' hero to the legacy in my book. Doesn't mean that they helped "finish SMiLE", but they'd still be worthy of much respect for doing so. To think otherwise, that's crazy talk.

I have advocated for years that Stamos should stop his weekend-rock-star shtick and use his celebrity (and celebrity fan) status, not to mention Mike's obsession with him, to further some good causes in the BB world (meaning advocating for archival releases instead of trying to produce lame TV shows or Broadway shows that try to milk the BB song catalog).

Stamos could have been the hero of all BB fans if he had taken that tact at any point over all these years.

That all being said, having processed this Stamos bit and spoken to various folks, I don't sense Stamos is or will be having any impact on any aspect of this release, whether it's a decision to release it, or any potential alterations of track listings.

The main point of interest in his tweet yesterday was simply an alternative source seemingly confirming that he knows about the set and presumably is aware (as I'm sure all the BBs are at this point) that fans know that A) The set exists and is ready to go, and B) The set is currently in some form of limbo as far as a release.

If there is a source that Stamos is able to speak to who will wipe all or nearly all of the Dennis material off this set, I don't believe Stamos has much if any ability to change *that*.

It goes without saying that we can all *hope* that Stamos would have the power to get the band to release the set in its original incarnation. I just don't think Stamos having that sort of power is very likely.

I'm having a hard time understanding how an issue (previously described as totally unrelated to the contents of this box) could lead to a decision to butcher the box and remove most of Dennis' contents, if the main issue at hand (even if it was cloaked in being about an unrelated thing) could be about anything other than petty jealous crap aimed against Dennis.

I cannot wrap my head around that jealousy sh*t not being a thing at play here.

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:46:04 PM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

I'm having trouble understanding the connection here.

If details are being shared with John Stamos, then Dennis Wilson's material will be removed from the set?

I'm assuming you're talking about Mike. Why is the connection to Stamos being related to this comment? Don't we know that Mike is involved with the box set anyway? What does Stamos' knowledge have to do with anything? Couldn't we know that Mike could wipe out Dennis' material even without knowing that Stamos is aware of what's going on?

No. There's nothing in my post saying Stamos himself nor Stamos talking to somebody would be the thing that results in material being wiped. Stamos is in all likelihood himself inconsequential to the outcome concerning this set.

I'm saying *if* Stamos is privy to information regarding "Feel Flows", that would be coming from a source, and it happens to be that that source is a person who will/wants to wipe the Dennis material from this set.

I can't really elaborate beyond that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:51:20 PM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.

If some insider, like Stamos, actually somehow moves the needle behind the scene and GETS the set released INTACT... as opposed to the alternative for the majority of the music to never see the light of day... well yeah, they'd be  friggin' hero to the legacy in my book. Doesn't mean that they helped "finish SMiLE", but they'd still be worthy of much respect for doing so. To think otherwise, that's crazy talk.

I have advocated for years that Stamos should stop his weekend-rock-star shtick and use his celebrity (and celebrity fan) status, not to mention Mike's obsession with him, to further some good causes in the BB world (meaning advocating for archival releases instead of trying to produce lame TV shows or Broadway shows that try to milk the BB song catalog).

Stamos could have been the hero of all BB fans if he had taken that tact at any point over all these years.

That all being said, having processed this Stamos bit and spoken to various folks, I don't sense Stamos is or will be having any impact on any aspect of this release, whether it's a decision to release it, or any potential alterations of track listings.

The main point of interest in his tweet yesterday was simply an alternative source seemingly confirming that he knows about the set and presumably is aware (as I'm sure all the BBs are at this point) that fans know that A) The set exists and is ready to go, and B) The set is currently in some form of limbo as far as a release.

If there is a source that Stamos is able to speak to who will wipe all or nearly all of the Dennis material off this set, I don't believe Stamos has much if any ability to change *that*.

It goes without saying that we can all *hope* that Stamos would have the power to get the band to release the set in its original incarnation. I just don't think Stamos having that sort of power is very likely.

I'm having a hard time understanding how an issue (previously described as totally unrelated to the contents of this box) could lead to a decision to butcher the box and remove most of Dennis' contents, if the main issue at hand (even if it was cloaked in being about an unrelated thing) could be about anything other than petty jealous crap aimed against Dennis.

I cannot wrap my head around that jealousy sh*t not being a thing at play here.

I think at this stage there is a sort of, as they say in the scientific/medical field, comorbidity of issues circling this band and this release. One thing is the main problem/issue, and then as only the BBs can do, when that issue *might* be finally cleared up or eliminated, that "circular firing squad" comes back in and hashes out a new issue/problem.

In other words, the issue that has been holding up the set is, largely, separate from the more recent information concerning the possibility of Dennis material being dropped from the set.

As usual, this both complicates matters (both internally and from the fan point of view trying to figure out what the f**k is going on), while also weirdly signaling a set is still viable. Only the BBs would take a second (or tenth or hundredth) chance to make something right, and still f**k it up just enough to still kind of ruin it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 09, 2020, 12:52:31 PM
I’m very confused. I’ve been under the impression that “material on the completed 5 CD set” is NOT the issue holding up release.  Now it seems possible that the holdup IS due to “material on the 5 CD set”...

My head hurts...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
8)
i would love to see how BB Fandom reacts to John Stamos being the the driving force of getting Feel Flows released. :D


IMHO it would put them up there, a few notches below folks like Darian, on a list of those who helped make a big impact on the legacy of this band, should Stamos be a factor in this set getting out.



Crazy talk.

If some insider, like Stamos, actually somehow moves the needle behind the scene and GETS the set released INTACT... as opposed to the alternative for the majority of the music to never see the light of day... well yeah, they'd be  friggin' hero to the legacy in my book. Doesn't mean that they helped "finish SMiLE", but they'd still be worthy of much respect for doing so. To think otherwise, that's crazy talk.

I have advocated for years that Stamos should stop his weekend-rock-star shtick and use his celebrity (and celebrity fan) status, not to mention Mike's obsession with him, to further some good causes in the BB world (meaning advocating for archival releases instead of trying to produce lame TV shows or Broadway shows that try to milk the BB song catalog).

Stamos could have been the hero of all BB fans if he had taken that tact at any point over all these years.

That all being said, having processed this Stamos bit and spoken to various folks, I don't sense Stamos is or will be having any impact on any aspect of this release, whether it's a decision to release it, or any potential alterations of track listings.

The main point of interest in his tweet yesterday was simply an alternative source seemingly confirming that he knows about the set and presumably is aware (as I'm sure all the BBs are at this point) that fans know that A) The set exists and is ready to go, and B) The set is currently in some form of limbo as far as a release.

If there is a source that Stamos is able to speak to who will wipe all or nearly all of the Dennis material off this set, I don't believe Stamos has much if any ability to change *that*.

It goes without saying that we can all *hope* that Stamos would have the power to get the band to release the set in its original incarnation. I just don't think Stamos having that sort of power is very likely.

I'm having a hard time understanding how an issue (previously described as totally unrelated to the contents of this box) could lead to a decision to butcher the box and remove most of Dennis' contents, if the main issue at hand (even if it was cloaked in being about an unrelated thing) could be about anything other than petty jealous crap aimed against Dennis.

I cannot wrap my head around that jealousy sh*t not being a thing at play here.

I think at this stage there is a sort of issue of, as they say in the scientific/medical field, comorbidity of issues circling this band and this release. One thing is the main problem/issue, and then as only the BBs can do, when that issue *might* be finally cleared up or eliminated, that "circular firing squad" comes back in and hashes out a new issue/problem.

In other words, the issue that has been holding up the set is, largely, separate from the more recent information concerning the possibility of Dennis material being dropped from the set.

As usual, this both complicates matters (both internally and from the fan point of view trying to figure out what the f**k is going on), while also weirdly signaling a set is still viable. Only the BBs would take a second (or tenth or hundredth) chance to make something right, and still f**k it up just enough to still kind of ruin it.


Absolutely. Only the BBs. Which in my mind means only Mike Love and his Endless Ego Issues.

Why would anyone behind the scenes want to butcher the set to remove Dennis' material? Unless someone thinks that Dennis' material would thrive better on its own, unrelated release, but we all know that's not the case. It'd have its biggest audience and would thrive the most on a set like this. And doubtlessly, it would also cast a shadow over some of the other material because Denny was just. that. good. And therein must lie the real issue.

Just as Mike could give 794 reasons as to why he ended C50, I'm sure he could find a way to cloak his jealousy of Dennis in 884 different other ways and point to those things, or even create intentional obstacles just to blame things on those unrelated obstacles, instead of coming clean as a narcissist egoist.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 12:59:03 PM
I’m very confused. I’ve been under the impression that “material on the completed 5 CD set” is NOT the issue holding up release.  Now it seems possible that the holdup IS due to “material on the 5 CD set”...

My head hurts...

I can try to clear it up as best as possible.

1. Set is completed and ready to go

2. Issue comes up leading to set being blocked/delayed/stonewalled, whatever you want to call it.

3. Separately, while the question of the set coming out is still up in the air, there is the possibility of the Dennis material being wiped from the set if it *does* end up coming out.  

Only in the world of the BBs could they take this amazing material, turn it into a s**t-show by delaying a release, then potentially allow the set, but only after a whole other set of crap comes up and they compromise the whole point of the set by dropping material and once again finish things off by rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 09, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
I’ve followed this band for 50 years.  I know they have mastered the art of “shitting the bed” when it comes to virtually all aspects of their creative careers. If something CAN be f***ed up, this band will FIND A WAY!!!  It doesn’t surprise me that this set is in jeopardy over something ludicrous/asinine/petty.  And my “best guess” is that Mike is driving the “f***-up bus”...

As I’ve said before, lord help us if Mike out-lives the rest of the band. He’ll re-write Beach Boy history with no one to stop him.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
I’ve followed this band for 50 years.  I know they have mastered the art of “shitting the bed” when it comes to virtually all aspects of their creative careers. If something CAN be f***ed up, this band will FIND A WAY!!!  It doesn’t surprise me that this set is in jeopardy over something ludicrous/asinine/petty.  And my “best guess” is that Mike is driving the “f***-up bus”...

As I’ve said before, lord help us if Mike out-lives the rest of the band. He’ll re-write Beach Boy history with no one to stop him.



Just replace "they" and "this band" with Mike Edward Egomaniac Bully Ironic Last Name Love and your sentence gains far more accuracy.

The amount of living people who are close to the situation, who if they could, would probably like to speak their mind publicly regarding their thoughts about Mike, but don't simply because he is both living and litigious, I would assume is a not insubstantial number.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 01:16:12 PM
It's just tragic that the band has learned nothing seemingly after 60 years in the business.

Look at the surviving Beatles and the estates. They have as much, arguably MORE reasons/potential pitfalls concerning the myriad of band issues/releases, etc.

There is far *more* money rolling around Apple/The Beatles than with the Beach Boys and BRI. Just as many if not more issues of ego/legacy, etc.

Yet, Apple and the Beatles, even prior to Harrison's death, had largely figured out how to work together and get s**t done and cross-market each other. To work together even if they don't want to *be* together. Paul and Yoko holding hands at red carpets. Getting *product* out there.

I mentioned this years ago, but for years now the Beatles' social media accounts and the individual solo accounts have all cross-marketed each other.

The Beach Boys could have never gotten in a room together after 1996 and still done far better with their legacy and their empire. They could have been promoting each others' solo albums.

As it is, they don't even have *one* unified force simply promoting *group* releases! It's never even clear who's running the auto-bot-ish "The Beach Boys" social media accounts. It doesn't even matter.

We should be picking our favorite tracks off of "Feel Flows" right now, and we should all be trading theories back and forth on what will be on a "So Tough/Holland" set.

What a mess. How sad.

I remain hopeful, because the music is that great and that important.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 09, 2020, 01:16:50 PM
All you have to think about is the way the Rocky/Ron Hamady book was “re-structured” from its original slant of “Mike is the villain” to its released form of “Mike saved Brian and the group” to know the power the Lovester wields...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
All you have to think about is the way the Rocky/Ron Hamady book was “re-structured” from its original slant of “Mike is the villain” to its released form of “Mike saved Brian and the group” to know the power the Lovester wields...

What happened behind the scenes there is jaw-dropping to think about, and has vibes of mafia-esque threats or bribes being made. Not one person can claim any other possible reason is logical. But it'd be pretty funny to see anyone try.

It was brazen and blatant, and an insult to everyone's intelligence after the many posts Rocky did on this board.

That book, and what went down to change it, in and of itself is worthy of a book of its own.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 09, 2020, 01:37:42 PM
It’s so sad to read about the possibility regarding Dennis material being dropped from this set only because of crap/Mike Love jealousy towards Dennis.
If this set doesn’t come out as originally planned, surely I’ll sell Mike’s stuff that I have in my collection.
If only he could put aside his jealousy to see that Dennis material could be a reason to have more sales...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
My understanding is simplistic but don't Dennis' estate have some kind of ownership over Dennis' compositions? At very least the publishing side of things. I.e. Is there a chance those recordings could one day come out on a Dennis specific release where other band members have no authority to stop it?

Very upsetting if the Dennis material is indeed removed. It's one of the main things that actually interests me about the set, as I'm sure is true for many of us.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2020, 02:07:55 PM
While it's obviously not the actual reason for the holdup, my mind keeps going back to the fact that these sets are now entering the historical period where Mike would prefer us to believe that he was the one holding the band together. This is a blatant myth that he'd probably convinced himself of over time - but the contents of this set certainly won't reflect that. I counted a while back and I'm pretty sure he had in the realm of a dozen writing credits in this period, and probably not many more lead vocals. Mike openly fawned over Dennis' writing in the 70's - shows his true character that he would now potentially sabotage his cousin's legacy in order to preserve his ego.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Join The Human Race on October 09, 2020, 03:27:07 PM
Just catching up on this thread; mostly a passerby as mentioned way back earlier. Anyway, the set is done, right? Like fully complete and ready to ship? Or do they still have to press the final copies but every thing else (mastering, sequencing, liner notes) is done? If the set is complete and ready for sell, then wouldn't all those copies have Dennis' songs?

Also, is there an official source that confirms the hold up is over Dennis' material? Or is that speculation when the information got out that it may get released, but with fewer songs? Again, is there an official source saying that its' Dennis getting the axe or just speculation that it could be his songs due to the complicated history between him and Mike?

Regardless of what happens, I do not think you have to worry about Mike rewriting the history of the Beach Boys regardless of who is the final member left. The music of Brian is out there. Summer in Paradise is also out there. Even if Mike rewrote Beach Boys' history, do you think the fans are just going to be silent about Brian? Hell no! Fans like us are in this stuff deep. So much of the inner drama doesn't even go to the surface. The stuff that does reach the surface is their music; which is now available almost anywhere. That's always going to define the band and be the introduction for new fans. That's the history people will remember. The sessions are all out there of Brian kicking ass in the studio. That's literally music history happening. I, like most of you, probably wish for their popularity to increase; in particular away from the hits, Pet Sounds, and Smile. At the same time, I'm okay with this era being a deep fan one. Not many people can appreciate songs like 'Til I Die and A Day in The Life of A Tree.

I hope the full set is released, obviously.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 09, 2020, 03:33:16 PM
Just catching up on this thread; mostly a passerby as mentioned way back earlier. Anyway, the set is done, right? Like fully complete and ready to ship? Or do they still have to press the final copies but every thing else (mastering, sequencing, liner notes) is done? If the set is complete and ready for sell, then wouldn't all those copies have Dennis' songs?

Also, is there an official source that confirms the hold up is over Dennis' material? Or is that speculation when the information got out that it may get released, but with fewer songs? Again, is there an official source saying that its' Dennis getting the axe or just speculation that it could be his songs due to the complicated history between him and Mike?

No manufacturing has taken place as far as I know. It has been essentially ready to manufacture for some time now.

If you read recent posts, the hold up has not been Dennis material. The removal of Dennis material is a separate issue. Read the last page or two of posts.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2020, 04:11:41 PM

The stuff that does reach the surface is their music; which is now available almost anywhere. That's always going to define the band  


Yep, what's out there (and what's not out there) is indeed always going to define the band. The intentional absence of material from this set is part of that definition.

Who but Mike would have ANY reason to try and release a cut down version of the box that cuts out Dennis' material? I'd love to hear anyone's theory on how it could possibly be anyone/anything other than Mike. Please note: we already know from past posts in this thread, from people in the know, that it's not a legal/rights thing, so that potential option goes out the window. But hey, what do I know. I'm all ears if anybody has any logical suggestions other than the obvious suspect.

That there's golden stuff that will potentially not reach the surface due to some horse manure is an absolutely tragic thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 09, 2020, 06:22:06 PM
Just catching up on this thread; mostly a passerby as mentioned way back earlier. Anyway, the set is done, right? Like fully complete and ready to ship? Or do they still have to press the final copies but every thing else (mastering, sequencing, liner notes) is done? If the set is complete and ready for sell, then wouldn't all those copies have Dennis' songs?

Also, is there an official source that confirms the hold up is over Dennis' material? Or is that speculation when the information got out that it may get released, but with fewer songs? Again, is there an official source saying that its' Dennis getting the axe or just speculation that it could be his songs due to the complicated history between him and Mike?

No manufacturing has taken place as far as I know. It has been essentially ready to manufacture for some time now.

If you read recent posts, the hold up has not been Dennis material. The removal of Dennis material is a separate issue. Read the last page or two of posts.



But there’s some talk between the shareholders/parties involved about removing Dennis material?
They have been using it as a condition to give the green light to release the box?
It’s sad if this is a valid topic now, and if they have been discussing it at their meetings regarding the box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Reverberation on October 09, 2020, 09:44:42 PM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

:(

That's what I'm most curious about hearing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 09, 2020, 10:44:53 PM
All of the reasoning about Dennis' material in this time frame "not being BBs music" ignores the fact that some of it originally intended for his original solo project wound up being released on BB albums. Using that logic, a song such as "My Solution" shouldn't be included, either, since Brian eventually reworked it into "Happy Days" on IMAGINATION.

Given the complicated relationship of Dennis' material as it relates to the band, it makes a good bit more sense in 2020 to include it as part of a compilation like FEEL FLOWS in order to fully document the creative atmosphere of the band members during the 1969-71 time frame.

That's a point that should also be made publicly by anyone writing about the current situation. It makes the public disclosure of the track listing for FEEL FLOWS that much more imperative, in order to demonstrate exactly what might be vulnerable as a result of this faulty, selective reasoning.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 10, 2020, 01:26:26 AM
Checked in to see there'd been a bit of movement, and got a bit excited. Then started reading and got very disappointed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 10, 2020, 02:47:21 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material. I believe he was quite happy with the Dennis stuff on MIC.

Then you pop into this thread and it can become really REALLY confusing because of people speculating.

Disrespectful to Darian to talk about legacy and Stamos at the same time.

All he said was "soonish" for gawd sake  ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SloopJohnB on October 10, 2020, 04:40:37 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material. I believe he was quite happy with the Dennis stuff on MIC.

^ This. All I've read so far is pure speculation. Yet it looks like some people are treating it as an undisputable fact.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: francois on October 10, 2020, 08:18:26 AM
Y'all so good at speculations, you should sell houses.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 10, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
A suitable response:

https://youtu.be/ElJRY0PoZgY (https://youtu.be/ElJRY0PoZgY)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 10, 2020, 05:53:28 PM
All of the reasoning about Dennis' material in this time frame "not being BBs music" ignores the fact that some of it originally intended for his original solo project wound up being released on BB albums. Using that logic, a song such as "My Solution" shouldn't be included, either, since Brian eventually reworked it into "Happy Days" on IMAGINATION.

Given the complicated relationship of Dennis' material as it relates to the band, it makes a good bit more sense in 2020 to include it as part of a compilation like FEEL FLOWS in order to fully document the creative atmosphere of the band members during the 1969-71 time frame.

That's a point that should also be made publicly by anyone writing about the current situation. It makes the public disclosure of the track listing for FEEL FLOWS that much more imperative, in order to demonstrate exactly what might be vulnerable as a result of this faulty, selective reasoning.



If Dennis material would be removed from this set, really I wouldn’t mind if it will be canceled and released in digital.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 10, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
Jiggy over at the other place surmises that we will have a copyright dump at the end of the year, and the FEEL FLOWS package will get released as currently configured around the time of the 50 anniversary of the SURF's UP LP (late August '21). Manning was slogging us for what he claims will be eight more months of fine whinery...but it's actually ten months until that date, and the folks on the inside have the ability to assist us in a decrescendo on this subject by simply addressing what the freak is going on.

Those who appear to know something more about all this should feel free to weigh in...

...in the meantime, the current FEEE FLOWS track listing is still the best way to give those folk with more influence something to work with. I urge any of those who are privy to that information to make it publicly available. We can't rely on Stamos...we need a shoe to drop.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joshferrell on October 10, 2020, 09:25:06 PM
something just came to me about this whole Dennis Wilson situation. now this may be far fetched but WHAT IF the Beach Boys are releasing a new album next year and they are saving a couple of his songs to finish and place it on there, Ala: Free as a bird or Soul Searchin'. just a thought. but of course if one of them sees this. that may not be a bad idea, plus an unreleased Carl song too..hint hint...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 10, 2020, 10:48:09 PM
If they're going to include solo Dennis material on sets supposedly devoted to the group, then what if, in the future, solo Carl stuff turns up on a Beach Boys set? Maybe some of Mike's unreleased solo stuff - First Love, Country Love?
I always thought it odd that River Song was on the Ten Years of Harmony comp.
Maybe Caroline, No should have been left off Pet Sounds, since that was a Brian solo single.
 ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 11, 2020, 02:51:22 AM
Maybe Caroline, No should have been left off Pet Sounds, since that was a Brian solo single.
 ??? ??? ???

And maybe the title track... and Let's Go Away for a While.... and Don't Talk Put Your Head on My Shoulder...,

Let's face it. There are more a few "Beach Boys" songs, particularly pre-1968, in which only one "Beach Boy" (i.e., Brian) had any involvement.

I get the distinction of "well, this is different because it's stuff Dennis never intended for a Beach Boys record whereas Brian's stuff was always intended for the BBs."   But at this point, who cares?  If it's good material from the relevant period, why not put it out there?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on October 11, 2020, 09:52:54 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 11, 2020, 10:19:47 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

I thought it had been cleared up earlier in this thread that at least re: feel flows, this wasn't an issue.

I'm aware they had plenty of personal issues in the past but as far as that impacting Dennis Wilson material appearing in later years on comps and so on, then I'm unaware of that and would be interested to know more.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on October 11, 2020, 10:26:23 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

Nice to see you here again this Sunday Jon.
Are you speaking in more general terms or specifically in relation to Dennis material that may form a part of a Feel Flows set?

I don’t find it difficult to believe that he would have a problem with some Dennis material in general but if the latter this seems like a new development.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 11, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

I thought it had been cleared up earlier in this thread that at least re: feel flows, this wasn't an issue.

I'm aware they had plenty of personal issues in the past but as far as that impacting Dennis Wilson material appearing in later years on comps and so on, then I'm unaware of that and would be interested to know more.

I addressed this several times in recent posts, including one on this page above. 

The issue of removing Dennis material is a more recent development separate from the initial issues with the set's delay.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 11, 2020, 10:36:53 AM
something just came to me about this whole Dennis Wilson situation. now this may be far fetched but WHAT IF the Beach Boys are releasing a new album next year and they are saving a couple of his songs to finish and place it on there, Ala: Free as a bird or Soul Searchin'. just a thought. but of course if one of them sees this. that may not be a bad idea, plus an unreleased Carl song too..hint hint...

No,  not even close. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 11, 2020, 10:39:57 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

I thought it had been cleared up earlier in this thread that at least re: feel flows, this wasn't an issue.

I'm aware they had plenty of personal issues in the past but as far as that impacting Dennis Wilson material appearing in later years on comps and so on, then I'm unaware of that and would be interested to know more.

I addressed this several times in recent posts, including one on this page above. 

The issue of removing Dennis material is a more recent development separate from the initial issues with the set's delay.


OK, so, Dennis Wilson solo material had nothing to do with the initial delay however it's now unlikely to be released in whatever version of FF is released? and it's likely because of Mike Love objections?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 11, 2020, 10:54:25 AM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

I thought it had been cleared up earlier in this thread that at least re: feel flows, this wasn't an issue.

I'm aware they had plenty of personal issues in the past but as far as that impacting Dennis Wilson material appearing in later years on comps and so on, then I'm unaware of that and would be interested to know more.

I addressed this several times in recent posts, including one on this page above. 

The issue of removing Dennis material is a more recent development separate from the initial issues with the set's delay.


OK, so, Dennis Wilson solo material had nothing to do with the initial delay however it's now unlikely to be released in whatever version of FF is released? and it's likely because of Mike Love objections?

The likely thing is you're not going to get insiders to directly say "yes" do that, but it's easy to surmise that must basically be the case, more or less, from the last several posts. It's an absolutely atrocious situation. Mike Love is a petty, jealous little man, and that's me censoring my real thoughts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 11, 2020, 11:04:08 AM
Sweet vindication for me and OSD! >:D

Edit: But seriously, what a f***ed up situation to be jealous of your dead Cousin's music from FIFTY years ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on October 11, 2020, 11:12:47 AM
Sweet vindication for me and OSD! >:D

Why not bitter or sour vindication ?

 You would enjoy being vindicated even if it means we all miss out ?

I’m sure you would prefer we don’t miss out, but this attitude suggests otherwise.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 11, 2020, 11:49:39 AM
Sweet vindication for me and OSD! >:D

Why not bitter or sour vindication ?

 You would enjoy being vindicated even if it means we all miss out ?

I’m sure you would prefer we don’t miss out, but this attitude suggests otherwise.



Maybe it's not my place to speak for SB, but I tend to think that many people are just absolutely fed up with Mike, and are also fed up with the small but persistent amount of people who will bend themselves into a pretzel to find ways to somehow defend him and find illogical ways in which to absolve him of responsibility for all sorts of stuff.

I don't think you'll find any fan of the band who actually *wants* to be right about Mike. It's just that they know in their hearts that they are right, and there's probably some sort of relief at seeing what they know to be true being vindicated. Ultimately I'm sure every fan to whom this music means something to is utterly disgusted at the thought of Mike doing something like this.

I think the only pleasure derived would be at seeing the prezel-bending defenders being proven wrong. Personally I don't gain any pleasure in that whatsoever; the whole thing just makes me extremely sad and infuriated.

My thoughts are with Dennis's kids and Dennis's surviving close friends who are probably utterly disgusted beyond words at a certain someone in the band behaving like narcissist trash.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 11, 2020, 12:50:34 PM
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that Mike has a problem with Dennis material.
This would only be true if there was no "evidence" that is not widely known to the public. I doubt many here would think that's the case.

I thought it had been cleared up earlier in this thread that at least re: feel flows, this wasn't an issue.

I'm aware they had plenty of personal issues in the past but as far as that impacting Dennis Wilson material appearing in later years on comps and so on, then I'm unaware of that and would be interested to know more.

I addressed this several times in recent posts, including one on this page above.  

The issue of removing Dennis material is a more recent development separate from the initial issues with the set's delay.


OK, so, Dennis Wilson solo material had nothing to do with the initial delay however it's now unlikely to be released in whatever version of FF is released? and it's likely because of Mike Love objections?

The likely thing is you're not going to get insiders to directly say "yes" do that, but it's easy to surmise that must basically be the case, more or less, from the last several posts. It's an absolutely atrocious situation. Mike Love is a petty, jealous little man, and that's me censoring my real thoughts.

Mike Love is a jealous narcissistic man, he really is.
A jealous little man that needs to veto his cousin’s music only because he sees himself as The Beach Boys guardian.
The Wilsons and Al really had to stand themselves fighting for this music to be released and/or take the license from Mike vetoing him to use The Beach Boys name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 11, 2020, 01:23:06 PM
If Dennis material would be removed from this set and released next year in a Dennis solo release/or if there’s a leak it would be great.
But ban Dennis 70/71 songs to be released is a crime against his sons, his fans the the music in general.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 11, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 11, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

It's highly possible that there was never until now an approved budget to go back into the vault tapes and properly mix and master and do all of that stuff to that material. Who would pay for that? It's also possible that there's plenty of material or elements that were newly discovered.

On top of that, when it comes to marketing, it's only really in the last dozen years that the stature of Dennis and his genius has become better known thanks to the ongoing efforts of wonderful folks like Jon. It's not necessarily easy to find a marketable home for material like that, but a box like FF which highlights the contributions of ALL members of the era would certainly be the perfect place for it. For both DW's material to shine and get the most listeners, and for it to be a reciprocal thing for the whole box's contents to get more attention and praise.

I'm sure that the music of smile that Brian recorded in the 1960s was very important to him, but there were also many reasons why it didn't come out. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with the children of Dennis not caring, or about the material not meaning enough to them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 11, 2020, 07:41:49 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

It's highly possible that there was never until now an approved budget to go back into the vault tapes and properly mix and master and do all of that stuff to that material. Who would pay for that? It's also possible that there's plenty of material or elements that were newly discovered.

On top of that, when it comes to marketing, it's only really in the last dozen years that the stature of Dennis and his genius has become better known thanks to the ongoing efforts of wonderful folks like Jon. It's not necessarily easy to find a marketable home for material like that, but a box like FF which highlights the contributions of ALL members of the era would certainly be the perfect place for it. For both DW's material to shine and get the most listeners, and for it to be a reciprocal thing for the whole box's contents to get more attention and praise.

I'm sure that the music of smile that Brian recorded in the 1960s was very important to him, but there were also many reasons why it didn't come out. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with the children of Dennis not caring, or about the material not meaning enough to them.

I don't know. Maybe it just feels a bit exploitative to me for people to project their own feelings onto Al, the Wilsons or Dennis' children to justify their own desire for this music or hatred for Mike Love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 11, 2020, 11:19:53 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

It's highly possible that there was never until now an approved budget to go back into the vault tapes and properly mix and master and do all of that stuff to that material. Who would pay for that? It's also possible that there's plenty of material or elements that were newly discovered.

On top of that, when it comes to marketing, it's only really in the last dozen years that the stature of Dennis and his genius has become better known thanks to the ongoing efforts of wonderful folks like Jon. It's not necessarily easy to find a marketable home for material like that, but a box like FF which highlights the contributions of ALL members of the era would certainly be the perfect place for it. For both DW's material to shine and get the most listeners, and for it to be a reciprocal thing for the whole box's contents to get more attention and praise.

I'm sure that the music of smile that Brian recorded in the 1960s was very important to him, but there were also many reasons why it didn't come out. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with the children of Dennis not caring, or about the material not meaning enough to them.

I don't know. Maybe it just feels a bit exploitative to me for people to project their own feelings onto Al, the Wilsons or Dennis' children to justify their own desire for this music or hatred for Mike Love.
Agreed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 12, 2020, 12:12:31 AM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

For what it's worth, Dennis' sons have neither a stake nor a say in the Beach Boys.  The BBs' holding company Brother Records Inc. (BRI) bought out Dennis' share of the corporation for cash circa 1984 to retire some of Denny's debts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2020, 01:45:43 AM
But they do still own the publishing rights to his actual songs right? Selling a stake in a company doesn't mean ceding ones songwriting credits & associated rights


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 12, 2020, 02:36:00 AM
We were always told the material wasn't the reason for the holdup.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 12, 2020, 02:46:47 AM
But they do still own the publishing rights to his actual songs right? Selling a stake in a company doesn't mean ceding ones songwriting credits & associated rights

Probably yes.  There's an ongoing "Dennis Wilson Trust" that's been managed by the same lawyer since the '80s, and it's highly likely that some publishing royalties are being paid to Dennis' kids.  But, again, Denny's estate has no stake in BRI and thus no control over "Beach Boys" releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 04:56:04 AM
The “original cause of the holdup” and the “inclusion of Dennis material” are two separate issues. The issue with Dennis’material is a recently developed roadblock.  HeyJude explains this every page or so...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 12, 2020, 07:20:57 AM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on October 12, 2020, 08:10:10 AM
The “original cause of the holdup” and the “inclusion of Dennis material” are two separate issues. The issue with Dennis’material is a recently developed roadblock.  HeyJude explains this every page or so...

Does the whole "Dennis material" issue have "any" basis other than speculation?  Didn't that come up only because they say that 26 minutes of his early aborted solo release is included in the box?  They say that the material in the box is NOT the issue, so I think this is a completely needless worry. :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on October 12, 2020, 08:19:11 AM
as far as Dennis's material has to be put out before year-end to escape public domain, that would mean ANYTHING on the box that's unreleased and not an alternate version, not just Dennis's stuff... nowhere has anyone said that they want to take Dennis's stuff off the box, just that Stamos is aware of the box... the conclusion that he would be partial to removing Dennis material is unfounded, and frankly a little hateful.


FREE FEEL FLOWS   !!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 08:23:05 AM
The “original cause of the holdup” and the “inclusion of Dennis material” are two separate issues. The issue with Dennis’material is a recently developed roadblock.  HeyJude explains this every page or so...

Does the whole "Dennis material" issue have "any" basis other than speculation?  Didn't that come up only because they say that 26 minutes of his early aborted solo release is included in the box?  They say that the material in the box is NOT the issue, so I think this is a completely needless worry. :-\

I don't get it. Why are you ignoring the thing you were *just* told in the post you're responding to?

The delays on the set are issue #1. Subsequently, and *separately*, an issue regarding the inclusion/removal of Dennis material has come up, all while the status of the set (whether edited or not) remains up in the air.

So NO, the content of the set *not* being the reasons for the delays all these months should NOT alleviate anybody's worry about Dennis material being removed.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 08:26:21 AM
as far as Dennis's material has to be put out before year-end to escape public domain, that would mean ANYTHING on the box that's unreleased and not an alternate version, not just Dennis's stuff... nowhere has anyone said that they want to take Dennis's stuff off the box, just that Stamos is aware of the box... the conclusion that he would be partial to removing Dennis material is unfounded, and frankly a little hateful.


FREE FEEL FLOWS   !!!!

Seriously, you need to go back and read all these posts. I don't know if you're skimming them or not absorbing them, but NOBODY said Stamos wants Dennis material removed from the box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 08:30:44 AM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 08:35:11 AM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

I think it's pretty clear that NONE of the shareholders have anywhere near the amount of interest in or reverence for archival material the way fans and scholars of the band do.

I think some members have been more enthusiastic than others about it, and have tended to be happy to sign off on such things.

But I don't think any of the members have, unprompted, spearheaded campaigns to release archival material. They don't see the intrinsic value in it the way we do. Which is unfortunate for us, and also for them.

That being said, what's going on with "Feel Flows" is not really the same sort of thing. There are parties that have been and continue to be fine and supportive with putting out "Feel Flows." The hold ups, and then separately the issue of removing Dennis material, are more specific, deliberate undertakings by certain parties that go well beyond just simply not being actively enthusiastic about such things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 08:42:13 AM
It is my opinion that anyone who supports Mike in any of the band’s numerous controversies since the 1960’s simply hasn’t been paying attention.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 08:42:54 AM
It is my opinion that anyone who supports Mike in any of the band’s numerous controversies since the 1960’s simply hasn’t been paying attention.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on October 12, 2020, 08:45:52 AM
Sweet vindication for me and OSD! >:D

Why not bitter or sour vindication ?

 You would enjoy being vindicated even if it means we all miss out ?

I’m sure you would prefer we don’t miss out, but this attitude suggests otherwise.


That's just about the most effed up response to a post that I can think of unless you're trying to out do AGD here. Of course we feel vindicated!! And even if Mike Love  is not the reason for the holdup, he's rich white trash and both SB and I have been attacked without mercy for trying to make people understand that Mike Love is only out for one person and that's his own lonely ego infested grudge holding overpaid self. You owe an apology for your insidious remarks. >:(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on October 12, 2020, 08:52:10 AM
HeyJude,
be cool man, after this many pages it's easy to get in skim mode, and maybe I have. My question is still based on

" Subsequently, and *separately*, an issue regarding the inclusion/removal of Dennis material has come up"

where is this coming from?? My point is I can't find a source for this that seems credible,

It just seems to be board member speculation... whats the source? (please)


cheerds
Doc Smiley


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 12, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
Since the set has not hit manufacturing, does anyone know what the drop dead date would be to actually get this manufactured for a release this year?  What is the lead time?  If at some point in the future they make the release date the last Friday of this year, when would the set have to been sent to manufacturing to be able to physically release it this year?  8 week lead time, 4 week lead time, anyone know?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on October 12, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
Thank you Hey Jude for clearing up the trifecta of cluelessness that several posts presented. I seriously don't know how you have the patience to deal with constant herding of the "unaware yet adamant" attitudes and expressions into the the direction of correctness and factual. Howie and I are reading some of the posts by people unwilling to accept a direct line to the inside and wondering is it even worth it. Hey Jude gets my respect for doing his best to guide people towards the truth. It's a very hard job and we appreciate it. I will say one thing, people keep citing "you said content had nothing to do with it" or Made in California or why is it being blocked etc... Take this in, the situation evolved from one place to another. You should have had the box months ago, it was blocked. That is history. Now is a DIFFERENT time in history. If you do end up getting the set, it may be missing things that were in the version that was blocked. Why is that? Because there are people who have expressed that they possibly would like to change it. The people who would like to change it are NOT the people who put together the box that you should have had months ago that was blocked. They wanted to give you something great and wonderful and inclusive. They worked hard on it and delivered. We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility and that is a bulletin directly from the inside. Not speculation. But as of now, i guess we're all in "we'll see" mode as things are still fluid as far as i know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 12, 2020, 09:17:04 AM
OK, I'm clear on this now. Thanks Jon S and HeyJ.

It's hard for people to get through 80 pages and keep track tbf.

Re: Doc Smiley...pretty sure it was Howie who talked about the Dennis material now being in doubt. If you find Howie's profile, you can look at posts he made.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 09:17:29 AM
Jon, I think your post is too “wordy” for some on this board. I think you might edit down your last post because I honestly don’t think it will sink in otherwise. No offense intended.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on October 12, 2020, 09:39:18 AM
Jon, I think your post is too “wordy” for some on this board. I think you might edit down your last post because I honestly don’t think it will sink in otherwise. No offense intended.

If someone wants to know what is going on and either cannot or will not engage with John's post in order to understand what is going on, then an abbreviated post is not going to make a difference.  Everything that can be known by those of us who are not on the inside has been made known to the greatest possible degree and in the clearest possible terms without the authors of those posts jeopardizing their own standing.  If you don't already get it it is either because you don't want to or you can't.  A shorter post will not solve this problem with the will and/or the intellect.  Thank you, Jon, for affirming what HeyJude has said over and over again, at great length, in plain English.

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on October 12, 2020, 09:42:27 AM
Sweet vindication for me and OSD! >:D

Why not bitter or sour vindication ?

 You would enjoy being vindicated even if it means we all miss out ?

I’m sure you would prefer we don’t miss out, but this attitude suggests otherwise.



This is such a silly response.  SB stated he is glad to be vindicated, he does not say he is glad there are problems or that he is glad we all miss out.  GIVEN that there are problems and that we all miss out he is glad that he is vindicated.  What he said is what he meant and we he meant is quite clear.

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
I think one thing some people *continue* to not grasp is this:

People in the know who are trying to give you all as much information as possible about the ongoing issues with this set are not simply doing so for your own edification. It's not simply a case of knowing about issues/problems behind the scenes and then barfing it all out for the fan base just so they can know and chatter and complain.

By bringing up certain things at certain times to the attention of the fan base, the purpose is to CHANGE THINGS, to possibly get stuff released that's being stonewalled, and maybe to at least try to change the removal of key material from the set.

This is a subtle, inexact, tightrope walk, whatever you want to call it, process.

Just the right things/people need to be called out *just enough*, at *just the right time*, not angrily or inflammatory, so that the "people who need to know" will in fact know that the fans now know.

The band members all knowing that the fans know that "Feel Flows" exists and is ready to go does not guarantee anything. Similarly, the band members knowing that fans know there could be missing Dennis material excised by one particular person, also does not *guarantee* anything. But letting band members know that fans know certain things can sometimes move the needle.

Some people don't seem to understand this. Some people seem to still, after 700 years of the history of this band, look at everything in a linear, logical fashion. Some people seem to relish in full, 100% blinders-on incredulity. Some people seem to be unwilling to believe anything unless you bring a band member to their doorstep and make the band member tell them the full truth.

This is the Beach Boys, and this is the internet. Dumb, rampant, ignorant gossip and speculation will always abound.

But I assure you, what's being discussed by the main participants of this ongoing "Feel Flows" thread is not speculation or guess work. It's the real deal, and it's people knowing the real deal trying to do everything they can behind and in front of the scenes to actually still make this set happen.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 09:44:54 AM
Thank you Hey Jude for clearing up the trifecta of cluelessness that several posts presented. I seriously don't know how you have the patience to deal with constant herding of the "unaware yet adamant" attitudes and expressions into the the direction of correctness and factual. Howie and I are reading some of the posts by people unwilling to accept a direct line to the inside and wondering is it even worth it. Hey Jude gets my respect for doing his best to guide people towards the truth. It's a very hard job and we appreciate it. I will say one thing, people keep citing "you said content had nothing to do with it" or Made in California or why is it being blocked etc... Take this in, the situation evolved from one place to another. You should have had the box months ago, it was blocked. That is history. Now is a DIFFERENT time in history. If you do end up getting the set, it may be missing things that were in the version that was blocked. Why is that? Because there are people who have expressed that they possibly would like to change it. The people who would like to change it are NOT the people who put together the box that you should have had months ago that was blocked. They wanted to give you something great and wonderful and inclusive. They worked hard on it and delivered. We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility and that is a bulletin directly from the inside. Not speculation. But as of now, i guess we're all in "we'll see" mode as things are still fluid as far as i know.

Thanks Jon.

And once again, Jon has much more effectively and succinctly explained what the deal is.

Everybody, read and then re-read Jon's post above.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 10:04:57 AM
Thank you Hey Jude for clearing up the trifecta of cluelessness that several posts presented. I seriously don't know how you have the patience to deal with constant herding of the "unaware yet adamant" attitudes and expressions into the the direction of correctness and factual. Howie and I are reading some of the posts by people unwilling to accept a direct line to the inside and wondering is it even worth it. Hey Jude gets my respect for doing his best to guide people towards the truth. It's a very hard job and we appreciate it. I will say one thing, people keep citing "you said content had nothing to do with it" or Made in California or why is it being blocked etc... Take this in, the situation evolved from one place to another. You should have had the box months ago, it was blocked. That is history. Now is a DIFFERENT time in history. If you do end up getting the set, it may be missing things that were in the version that was blocked. Why is that? Because there are people who have expressed that they possibly would like to change it. The people who would like to change it are NOT the people who put together the box that you should have had months ago that was blocked. They wanted to give you something great and wonderful and inclusive. They worked hard on it and delivered. We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility and that is a bulletin directly from the inside. Not speculation. But as of now, i guess we're all in "we'll see" mode as things are still fluid as far as i know.

Thank you, Jon (and thank you, HeyJude). While all of this is extraordinarily troubling, I'm sure I speak for a great many fans when I say that I'm very grateful that you chimed in with your thoughts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 10:06:33 AM
Especially the “f*** with the formula” line


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 10:11:03 AM
I for one can't wait to get this custom printed on a T-shirt

(https://i.imgur.com/6goau5a.jpg)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 12, 2020, 10:16:11 AM
Jon, I think your post is too “wordy” for some on this board. I think you might edit down your last post because I honestly don’t think it will sink in otherwise. No offense intended.

Pretty sure the average post length on this board is 10 paragraphs long, which makes Jon post look small.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 12, 2020, 10:26:35 AM
I for one can't wait to get this custom printed on a T-shirt

(https://i.imgur.com/6goau5a.jpg)


The feel flows collection! :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 11:09:13 AM
At the “other” place a certain someone is implying that “insiders” are intentionally stirring the pot to cause turmoil 😤

I mean, really now, c’mon. Gimme a damn break


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 12, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
I trust Howie Edelson and Jon Stebbins...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 12, 2020, 11:18:57 AM
At the “other” place a certain someone is implying that “insiders” are intentionally stirring the pot to cause turmoil 😤

I mean, really now, c’mon. Gimme a damn break
Hell we are compared to QAnon at one point... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 11:38:11 AM
At the “other” place a certain someone is implying that “insiders” are intentionally stirring the pot to cause turmoil 😤

I mean, really now, c’mon. Gimme a damn break

The *only* reason why any insiders would be posting in this thread is to help the set be released, and without it being butchered. Who would be doing that posting for fun? It's a desperate situation, clearly. The INTACT music surely means a hell of a lot to the insider folks who would come and talk about here, and they know that it means a hell of a lot to us reading the thread.

There's no way in hell that any insider has any other ultimate objective. If some of the ugliness of what is happening behind the scenes happens to be indirectly surmised during the course of discussion, then so be it. Anybody would literally have to be out of their minds to think that "exposing the ugly truth" is any insider's real goal. 

The lengths that some people go to pass the buck and avoid actually acknowledging that Mike is clearly acting terribly is truly astounding. I just dare anybody to come up with a reason other than petty jealousy that Mike would have for trying to mutilate the box set. Yet it's somehow the messenger, blame the people who risk a hell of a lot to talk about stuff and dance around certain specifics somewhat because they *have to* do that dance in order to be able to say anything at all. It is absolutely disgusting to think that anybody could really have that blame the insiders mindset, and have their tongues so far up Mike's wrinkly ass.  It's gaslighting to such a degree that I cannot even fathom it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 11:48:10 AM
Exactly!


I believe someone like Howie or Jon over someone who posts under the name of a pitch correction software on a forum ran by a charlatan , any day of the damn week


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 11:48:41 AM
Exactly!


I believe someone like Howie or Jon over someone who posts under the name of a pitch correction software on a forum ran by a charlatan , any day of the damn week


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 12, 2020, 12:52:15 PM
At the “other” place a certain someone is implying that “insiders” are intentionally stirring the pot to cause turmoil 😤

I mean, really now, c’mon. Gimme a damn break

The *only* reason why any insiders would be posting in this thread is to help the set be released, and without it being butchered. Who would be doing that posting for fun? It's a desperate situation, clearly. The INTACT music surely means a hell of a lot to the insider folks who would come and talk about here, and they know that it means a hell of a lot to us reading the thread.

There's no way in hell that any insider has any other ultimate objective. If some of the ugliness of what is happening behind the scenes happens to be indirectly surmised during the course of discussion, then so be it. Anybody would literally have to be out of their minds to think that "exposing the ugly truth" is any insider's real goal. 

The lengths that some people go to pass the buck and avoid actually acknowledging that Mike is clearly acting terribly is truly astounding. I just dare anybody to come up with a reason other than petty jealousy that Mike would have for trying to mutilate the box set. Yet it's somehow the messenger, blame the people who risk a hell of a lot to talk about stuff and dance around certain specifics somewhat because they *have to* do that dance in order to be able to say anything at all. It is absolutely disgusting to think that anybody could really have that blame the insiders mindset, and have their tongues so far up Mike's wrinkly ass.  It's gaslighting to such a degree that I cannot even fathom it.

Exactly!


I believe someone like Howie or Jon over someone who posts under the name of a pitch correction software on a forum ran by a charlatan , any day of the damn week


That is who they are, and this is what they do (and have been doing for years). When something doesn't fit the narrative, they attack the messenger(s), in this case that includes someone who actually worked on the set for 2 years. Not a damn thing has changed. Choose where you get your info and who you get it from, it's not difficult to suss out at this point. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 12, 2020, 01:23:54 PM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.
Smiley Smile is the official Bash Mike Love Board. You won't win this argument here. For what it's worth, though, I agree with you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 01:35:57 PM
So ... if the people who worked on it are saying something , why are there still questions?! I’ve known Jon and Howie for years, and I trust them immensely. Has nothing to do with this being the “bash mike board “ or the other place being a “bash everyone here” thing. Why are people trying to discredit them?!

I mean, I know *why* , I just don’t get it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 12, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 12, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility

That's a pretty clear statement right there of who is to blame, from a insider and someone extremely close to and emotionally connected to Dennis Wilson . . . not that anyone reading this thread with their eyes open, or for that matter following this band for longer than a few hours, needed it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 01:39:38 PM
Jon Stebbins once again nailed the term to use for some folks: "Unaware yet Adamant."

People that are that incredulous about what's being told to them about this set at this point either don't actually know a lot about this band and its history, or they're purposely ignoring the evidence and sources for some reason (ego, pedantry, frustration about not being in the loop on the back story, etc.).

I think folks know that they'll have egg on their face if they doubt trusted folks like Stebbins, Edelson, Boyd, Linett, etc., so we've got this weird thing happening with a hand full of fans/spectators where they're trying to be incredulous and cast doubt on this stuff while simultaneously trying to say "well, erm, no, I mean, I trust Jon and Howie, buuutttt....."



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 12, 2020, 01:44:30 PM
Jon, I think your post is too “wordy” for some on this board. I think you might edit down your last post because I honestly don’t think it will sink in otherwise. No offense intended.

Pretty sure the average post length on this board is 10 paragraphs long, which makes Jon post look small.

First, that's pure crap, and second if you don't want to read long posts, don't read 'em -- simple as that! No need to try to take a swipe at the board dating from 2015.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 01:45:16 PM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

Mike was very heavily involved in the songwriting of sunshine tomorrow. That was his last hurrah as Brian's main lyricist. Naturally that would be more in his wheelhouse of something he can feel good about its release.

There's nobody on that set who is really *outshining him*. On FF, while he'd surely have a chance to shine on his own, I'm sure he would nevertheless be outshined by others, most especially in a particularly acute way by the guy whose music he is trying to butcher and mutilate.

For people who find it so hard to believe, you know, people change and become far bigger bastards as time goes by. For any number of reasons. Mike has also postured as an environmentalist who cares about animals, and then in 2020 he goes and plays a despicable pro hunting show, gets a massive amount of public flak and won't back down. His priorities changed. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

I can't do anything to help you if you're going to be this ignorant of the band's history.

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 12, 2020, 01:47:26 PM
. . . after 700 years of the history of this band . . .

Now I'm no code-breaker, but I do play a bit of chess. I'm assuming that this one means we can expect at least ten archival releases from the 70s to be stonewall or delayed during the coming decade!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 02:01:29 PM
Some of the posts on the other board provide a very clear picture of the ideological/logical differences.

One person said (I'm paraphrasing) that if they were a band member, they would question why they'd want a fanbase like this, and would gladly disown "spoiled and minuscule bunch of grownups."

Yes, they're calling out the group of fans and people *working on these sets* who are TRYING TO SAVE THIS F***ING THING.

People who have that attitude are lucky the people working on these sets ever give them the time of day.

And, to state the obvious, I think MANY MANY fans actually think that way about the band. Maybe it's that fans should be fed up with a band that doesn't care about its fanbase (or its OWN LEGACY).

To reiterate, all of these amazing boxed sets and archival releases happen at the prodding of the teams putting them together, and/or the label. I'm not saying that no member ever helped the process along, but there wouldn't be lavish, MULTI DISC sets for studio material in 1967/68/69 if the BBs were just left to their own devices.

"Feel Flows" nearly died many times, and it wasn't band members fighting to make it happen. Indeed, the people working on these sets have some members seemingly actively working against them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 12, 2020, 02:11:12 PM

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.

Well said, Jude. The preponderance of the evidence suggests that the litigious one is mucking around in the bulrushes again. It's frustrating to me, though, that we don't have a Dr. Ellsberg (as opposed to a Dr. Landy) to "take one for the team" and reveal just what was put together for FEEL FLOWS. Knowing those who've worked on these sets, I can understand their reluctance: getting on the inside of this band is a big deal, even in its twilight phase, and to be ostracized forever if revealed as the source of the leak would be a tough cross to bear...

...but I really believe that someone is going to have to swallow hard and do just that in order to get more clarity into the situation.

Most of us are operating completely in the dark on this, and what's infuriating is knowing that there are certain *sshats over in the Land of Nod who know exactly what is going on and are playing games not only with us, but with their fellow Nodders. Mr. Suppressive Personality needs to look in the mirror when he quotes David Leaf about the "band getting the fans they deserve"--for all of his long-term efforts and his (purported) drive for "objective knowledge," he has long ago morphed into a shameless Lovester lapdog whose net worth to the band as a whole went into the red well before he was rightfully booted out of here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 02:24:09 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
You hit the nail on the head, Don, especially with that last paragraph.


I’m also going to say this again...why is it certain people are choosing to ignore what Howie and Jon have both said?! Jon’s last post was about as clear as can be without burning bridges. I’m really trying hard to be nice, but I have a major issue when someone doubts the integrity of two thoroughly decent guys who have put their asses on the line to keep us informed. That is extremely offensive to me, and one or two cases, I wonder about the motivation behind such statements.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 02:31:46 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.
 

It's possible to do both.

Not sure why it comes down to some assertion that this is the "Bash Mike Love forum".  There's no mutually exclusive thing happening here, or with any number of other case studies in this band.

I'll happily call out when Mike does good stuff, when he kicks ass, as have many others on this board. If he brings the goods, he'll get praise. "Cool Head, Warm Heart" trounced Brian and Al's contributions on that Hallmark CD. His lyrics on Wild Honey were solid. Please Let Me Wonder if possibly my fave BBs song ever. His vocals on Meant For You are fab. I am a fan of Kokomo.

Conversely, if he acts like a pathetic narcissistic ass, he'll also get spoken about in not highly terms, as he should be. ESPECIALLY when it's at the expense of the other members of the band who aren't here to speak for or defend themselves. There's nothing difficult about saying that Mike has brought some very good stuff to the band, and that in a great many instances including this one, he is acting like a piece of sh*t. It's not some mutually exclusive thing. This isn't a game of sports. You can appreciate the good things Mike has brought AND also state that it is despicable that he'd be fucking over his dead cousin.


I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

Being disgusted with Mike's actions is BECAUSE we love the music SO damn much. If this was just some sh*t bar band, or a band made up of 5 Mike Loves, we'd never ever give two craps about the fact that great music and the legacy is being sh*t on.

Perhaps the best way for Mike Love to stop acting like such a POS is if he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of sycophants, and if enough people actually gave a f*ck and were educated enough as opposed to a ton of low information fans, for it to in any way affect his bottom line. What a dream it would be if every member of the audience at the upcoming parking lot drive in shows that M&B are playing were to pull out a giant glowing poster that said "please keep Dennis' songs on FF, please don't screw over your dead cousin"... if a GIANT SEA of cars at 3 shows did that, it would probably make news, and he'd maybe have a change of heart, if only to avoid embarrassment.

But you know, Mike - like his hero - loves the poorly educated.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 02:34:21 PM
You hit the nail on the head, Don, especially with that last paragraph.


I’m also going to say this again...why is it certain people are choosing to ignore what Howie and Jon have both said?! Jon’s last post was about as clear as can be without burning bridges. I’m really trying hard to be nice, but I have a major issue when someone doubts the integrity of two thoroughly decent guys who have put their asses on the line to keep us informed. That is extremely offensive to me, and one or two cases, I wonder about the motivation behind such statements.

Not to mention, I'm absolutely certain that the feelings of Jon and Howie are shared by a number of other insiders, including very, VERY probably people who are much closer to the band in terms of actual DNA. I'm sure they're not just speaking for themselves by being appalled at the thought of Mr. Positivity mutilating Dennis' content.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 02:41:12 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.


I respect what you’re saying. Just to clarify, I’ve *always* championed Mike’s contributions to the music, probably more than most (hell, I actually like Looking Back with Love a lot). I’ll be buying the set regardless. My issues are the set being blocked and the possibility of all the hard work gone into it being for naught, and the complete lack of respect (not by you, talking about certain other individuals) shown towards those who busted their asses off trying to make this happen. That’s the deal with me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
You hit the nail on the head, Don, especially with that last paragraph.


I’m also going to say this again...why is it certain people are choosing to ignore what Howie and Jon have both said?! Jon’s last post was about as clear as can be without burning bridges. I’m really trying hard to be nice, but I have a major issue when someone doubts the integrity of two thoroughly decent guys who have put their asses on the line to keep us informed. That is extremely offensive to me, and one or two cases, I wonder about the motivation behind such statements.

Not to mention, I'm absolutely certain that the feelings of Jon and Howie are shared by a number of other insiders, including very, VERY probably people who are much closer to the band in terms of actual DNA. I'm sure they're not just speaking for themselves by being appalled at the thought of Mr. Positivity mutilating Dennis' content.

Yup


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 12, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
You hit the nail on the head, Don, especially with that last paragraph.


I’m also going to say this again...why is it certain people are choosing to ignore what Howie and Jon have both said?! Jon’s last post was about as clear as can be without burning bridges. I’m really trying hard to be nice, but I have a major issue when someone doubts the integrity of two thoroughly decent guys who have put their asses on the line to keep us informed. That is extremely offensive to me, and one or two cases, I wonder about the motivation behind such statements.

All of this regarding motivation has been playing out for years, maybe it took a clusterfuck like this box set getting shelved to expose more of what has been going on all along among various elements within this band and the fanbase. You saw a few people show up here several weeks ago and basically lie and distort trying to speculate on reasons why the set got held up, while the group they're associated with now spends time criticizing those who are speculating why the set got held up, not to mention people who actually worked on the set. It's all about pushing a narrative, then trying to smear those who go against that narrative. Going after Howie and Jon should be the last straw in all of it, for those who still can't see it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:02:31 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 03:10:14 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morph into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does. Unless anyone here is crazy enough to think that Mike consulted with Dennis' estate to get their thoughts on mutilating Dennis' material. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:16:52 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

You're such a hero, Hey Jude.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:17:50 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 03:18:39 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed?

Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:21:51 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed? Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.

Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 12, 2020, 03:24:02 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed? Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.

Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he didn't never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

At minimum, I think it's rich to think that he'd be anything but incensed that of all people, it would be Mike who would be throwing weight behind removing the material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:25:43 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:30:07 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:32:52 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed? Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.

Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he didn't never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

At minimum, I think it's rich to think that he'd be anything but incensed that of all people, it would be Mike who would be throwing weight behind removing the material.

Maybe. Maybe not. I have no idea. You don't either. You feel that way, and you're projecting your feelings back onto Dennis.

You can want to hear the material without an attempt to evoke emotion by mentioning Dennis' name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Knowing how unmotivated the band has been forever when it comes to pushing archival releases (and more specifically *recognizing* the intrinsic value of their archive), and knowing the political minefield that the BB world always has been and always will be, and then knowing the people working on these sets who navigate *all of that*, I have to say it's a d*ck move to react to a few positive comments about them by saying "they're not storming the beach at Normandy."



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:37:25 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
Knowing how unmotivated the band has been forever when it comes to pushing archival releases (and more specifically *recognizing* the intrinsic value of their archive), and knowing the political minefield that the BB world always has been and always will be, and then knowing the people working on these sets who navigate *all of that*, I have to say it's a d*ck move to react to a few positive comments about them by saying "they're not storming the beach at Normandy."



To take what I said as a "slap in the face to the people who work on these sets" was a dramatic mischaracterization, and it's what goes on over and over and over and over and over on this board.

Someone says something you disagree with. And then it becomes disrespectful to this person, this person, this person and this person.

I'll just boil this down again. I appreciate everyone's efforts in compiling these archival releases. It's awesome.

But Mike is in the band. And if he doesn't want something to represent the band that he helped form 59 years ago, then who the hell am I to call him a bastard and tell him it should?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:42:54 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:44:18 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Can you point to where I stated I could "essentially take or leave this set?"

We're all doing the same thing! You're also "arguing semantics about your opinion of what does and doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion." You just think your opinion is more valuable than mine. So, mine is "trolling."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:46:02 PM
Knowing how unmotivated the band has been forever when it comes to pushing archival releases (and more specifically *recognizing* the intrinsic value of their archive), and knowing the political minefield that the BB world always has been and always will be, and then knowing the people working on these sets who navigate *all of that*, I have to say it's a d*ck move to react to a few positive comments about them by saying "they're not storming the beach at Normandy."



To take what I said as a "slap in the face to the people who work on these sets" was a dramatic mischaracterization, and it's what goes on over and over and over and over and over on this board.

Someone says something you disagree with. And then it becomes disrespectful to this person, this person, this person and this person.

I'll just boil this down again. I appreciate everyone's efforts in compiling these archival releases. It's awesome.

But Mike is in the band. And if he doesn't want something to represent the band that he helped form 59 years ago, then who the hell am I to call him a bastard and tell him it should?

Sounds like you're not a fan of the board, and seem to think fans lamenting the potential deletion of amazing music on a boxed set (lamenting being very different from "calling a bastard") is needless/ridiculous/overly dramatic. What's left to say in this thread then?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 03:47:32 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?
If that's all it was, then sure.

But god knows how many pages ago, it was all about, "what would Al and the Wilsons and Dennis' family think of this?" rather than, "I don't think his stuff should be removed from the set."

It's the overdramatization and projection onto important people that I'm tired of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!

z

Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.


On second thought, I take back what I said earlier about who it was directed to and wasn’t directed to 😒


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2020, 03:51:47 PM
I can't even keep track of this thread anymore - it's no wonder people are confused. Is there some way to have a separate sticky which just shows the key info from Howie and Jon? It's natural that this thread has gotten emotional and bloated, but it's also important that more people pick up on the key info being presented to us.

Honestly not sure why anyone would the need to turn this into a Mike sympathy jerk. I appreciate Mike's contributions to the band. I appreciate Dennis' too. I think to obscure the significance of either as an artist is a crime. In this case, it just so happens that the former appears to be trying to obscure the latter. Unfortunate, but of course I'm going to advocate for Dennis' stuff to be released. It shouldn't be a binary situation, as much as some would like to turn it into one.

Stebbins hit the nail on the head re: speculators trying to find logic or consistency here. Time passes and people change. Mike advocated for Sound of Free and Lady to come out on MIC even though those weren't strictly Beach Boys songs. Since then he's spent several years selling others (and himself) the story that Dennis' sole contribution around 1969 was to bring Charles Manson into the fold, including the unverified allegation that Dennis witnessed a murder and didn't report it to the police (something Mike also never followed up on or even revealed until conveniently wishing to promote his book). Not wanting to speculate too far, but it seems Mike has a deep seated need to control the narrative around the Beach Boys as a historical phenomenon - the more primary source material comes out relating to this period, the less control he has over the narrative.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Can you point to where I stated I could "essentially take or leave this set?"

We're all doing the same thing! You're also "arguing semantics about your opinion of what does and doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion." You just think your opinion is more valuable than mine. So, mine is "trolling."

I have information you don't. It's not your fault, and I understand the frustration with the level of information that can be dispensed. I guess what I'm saying is that I can't expect you to know that my input regarding this set is more informed than yours. But in this one case, it is.

You seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out. You seem to be much more interested in and energized by criticizing how others *do care* about it.

So yeah, it's effectively trolling I think.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?
If that's all it was, then sure.

But god knows how many pages ago, it was all about, "what would Al and the Wilsons and Dennis' family think of this?" rather than, "I don't think his stuff should be removed from the set."

It's the overdramatization and projection onto important people that I'm tired of.

I think you just have a fixation about what you feel (incorrectly in my opinion) is "projection" (a term you've used many times now), and seem to find the evocation of "what would so-and-so think/do?" to be a pet peeve.

You also seem to find calling someone out for nixing material to be overly dramatic.

All obviously your prerogative, but it seems like there isn't anything left for you to add to this discussion on the topic of the set. You seem to be talking about the people talking about it now. I get it, this happens all the time on boards. But after awhile, it does feel like trolling.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on October 12, 2020, 04:00:10 PM
Note for, Hey Jude

Yes, I did miss that post of Howies concerning Dennis's material. I consider him credible of course.

Peace

Doc Smiley   :)


FREE FEEL FLOWS  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 04:01:38 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Can you point to where I stated I could "essentially take or leave this set?"

We're all doing the same thing! You're also "arguing semantics about your opinion of what does and doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion." You just think your opinion is more valuable than mine. So, mine is "trolling."

I have information you don't. It's not your fault, and I understand the frustration with the level of information that can be dispensed. I guess what I'm saying is that I can't expect you to know that my input regarding this set is more informed than yours. But in this one case, it is.

You seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out. You seem to be much more interested in and energized by criticizing how others *do care* about it.

So yeah, it's effectively trolling I think.

OK, so now I'll ask you to "point to where I stated I could 'essentially take or leave this set'" again and ask you to point to where I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but when you start lying about things people have and haven't posted and twisting their words, it gets pretty weird.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 04:06:03 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?
If that's all it was, then sure.

But god knows how many pages ago, it was all about, "what would Al and the Wilsons and Dennis' family think of this?" rather than, "I don't think his stuff should be removed from the set."

It's the overdramatization and projection onto important people that I'm tired of.

I think you just have a fixation about what you feel (incorrectly in my opinion) is "projection" (a term you've used many times now), and seem to find the evocation of "what would so-and-so think/do?" to be a pet peeve.

You also seem to find calling someone out for nixing material to be overly dramatic.

All obviously your prerogative, but it seems like there isn't anything left for you to add to this discussion on the topic of the set. You seem to be talking about the people talking about it now. I get it, this happens all the time on boards. But after awhile, it does feel like trolling.

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
OK, so now I'll ask you to "point to where I stated I could 'essentially take or leave this set'" again and ask you to point to where I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but when you start lying about things people have and haven't posted and twisting their words, it gets pretty weird.

It's not my job to do a copy and paste dissertation. Anybody can go back and read your posts and everybody else's. "Take or leave" is obviously a very loose paraphrasing/characterization. But yes, when someone says things like this:

"...if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester."

"If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?"


It seems like those comments seem to come from a place of not being troubled by such material not being released. Sounds like you're okay with this set coming out, or not coming out. Hence "take it or leave it."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on October 12, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 12, 2020, 04:15:34 PM
Thank you Hey Jude, Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson for the clarifications and trying to set the record straight and also trying to do it without burning bridges.
At this very moment, I think all we have to do is pray for the best to come: the set to be released in its original form without any changes.
I don’t hate Mike as some guys here has said. What I hate is his insistence to keep jealous towards Dennis as a person and also as an artist. Why he doesn’t want to put these differences aside (as a person who learned to meditate, advocate for it and spoke about its peaceful nature) and let the Dennis material to be released as originally intended in this case?
To put aside some negativity in favor of the band’s legacy would be a great thing, a great accomplishment.
I think that’s what we want, and we as fans also want to hear Mike’s material on this set!
Everybody in the band has the gifts in their songwriting, and certainly we want to hear them all: everybody shining through the music 🙂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Yeah, HeyJude. Howie uses his real name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 04:20:21 PM
All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard.

You seem to be annoyed with the idea that people with information aren't more forthcoming. That's understandable to some degree.

You also seem to think folks (including myself I presume) are trying to play some sort of game, of trying to flaunt knowledge without revealing it. Again, I guess that's understandable to some degree.

But that's not the case here, I assure you. People are trying to work things the best they can to make this set happen.

This isn't really comparable directly to typical journalistic endeavors, because it's not a question of just "report it" or "don't report it", and not even just a question of protecting sources. We're not blowing the whistle on an international incident. We're trying to prod a group of people to release a consumer product. One of cultural significance, but a consumer product nonetheless. So a game has to be played. The fans need to know enough to know what they should be advocating for, and the group in turns needs to know the fans know. But specific information and sources can't be revealed for a bunch of *obvious* reasons, at least so long as the modus operandi is to help get this set released.

You can think this is all bulls**t.

But I assure folks, it is not. I don't flaunt years or post counts or anything, but I would hope my 15 years a ten gazillion posts here would at least allow folks to believe I'm not jerking anybody around here. I'm trying to help get this set released, as are others.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 12, 2020, 04:21:02 PM
Since the set has not hit manufacturing, does anyone know what the drop dead date would be to actually get this manufactured for a release this year?  What is the lead time?  If at some point in the future they make the release date the last Friday of this year, when would the set have to been sent to manufacturing to be able to physically release it this year?  8 week lead time, 4 week lead time, anyone know?

A really interesting question.
Anyone know?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
OK, so now I'll ask you to "point to where I stated I could 'essentially take or leave this set'" again and ask you to point to where I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but when you start lying about things people have and haven't posted and twisting their words, it gets pretty weird.

It's not my job to do a copy and paste dissertation. Anybody can go back and read your posts and everybody else's. "Take or leave" is obviously a very loose paraphrasing/characterization. But yes, when someone says things like this:

"...if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester."

"If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?"


It seems like those comments seem to come from a place of not being troubled by such material not being released. Sounds like you're okay with this set coming out, or not coming out. Hence "take it or leave it."

Those quotes are about Dennis' songs.

You said I could "take or leave" the set and that I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'd rather hear the set without Dennis' songs than not hear the set at all. Those quotes are the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 04:21:52 PM
Quote
The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care.

I’ll call it something beyond douchey but I’m trying hard to be nice. It’s not “playing the guessing the game” ; if anything , they’re doing us a favor by  telling us what they can without burning bridges and end up getting the set cancelled


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 04:22:31 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Yeah, HeyJude. Howie uses his real name.

What was that about not being a troll?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 04:24:07 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Well stated as usual Howie.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Yeah, HeyJude. Howie uses his real name.

What was that about not being a troll?

I mean, I'm assuming Howie was referring to me, but it's ridiculous if he was. I've never claimed to cover the Beach Boys. I wouldn't criticize Howie if he posted on a forum about politics under a pseudonym just because he's a journalist.

I do know I wouldn't post guarded and incomplete information about my field of expertise under a pseudonym.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on October 12, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Personally, the unreleased Dennis material is what I want most.  As much as I'd love to hear an instrumental "At My Window" (which I actually would), unreleased music by a talented songwriter is the trump card, and I hope the people involved realize that is how some of us feel.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jon Stebbins on October 12, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 05:15:19 PM
I’ve slogged through the last several pages of this thread, and just want to put in my two cents...

I do not know why this set is in jeopardy. I have my theories, but figuring things out in Beach Boy land is often an exercise in futility, so my “best guess” is very possibly wrong.

I do know that a ton of work has gone into assembling this massive set. If I put that much work into a similar project, only to see it hanging by a thread as it’s deadline for release nears, I’d be doing whatever I could to knock down the roadblock/roadblocks.  That would include trying to enlist the support of those inclined to have the most interest in my project.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on October 12, 2020, 05:16:46 PM
Personally, the unreleased Dennis material is what I want most.  As much as I'd love to hear an instrumental "At My Window" (which I actually would), unreleased music by a talented songwriter is the trump card, and I hope the people involved realize that is how some of us feel.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2020, 05:18:27 PM
Maybe let's cease insulting the generous people who have given us all the tangible info we've got about this set...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 05:25:13 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

Hardcore truth. Anybody who can’t understand this, quite frankly, is either a troll or needs some serious help


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2020, 05:25:48 PM
Personally, the unreleased Dennis material is what I want most.  As much as I'd love to hear an instrumental "At My Window" (which I actually would), unreleased music by a talented songwriter is the trump card, and I hope the people involved realize that is how some of us feel.

Me too tbh. There was quite a lot of Dennis stuff in the 1968 sets that we didn't even know existed - I've no doubt it's the same for this next period. Dennis in the late 60's-early 70's is so tantalising in that there are only really a dozen or so songs available. Getting the full picture of his writing around that time is really a game changer (starting really with the 'I Can Hear Music' set).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 05:26:21 PM
Duplicate post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: startBBtoday on October 12, 2020, 05:26:42 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

I was actually calling HeyJude douchey, "mental giant."

Keep dropping vague hints to let fans parse them out and speculate until their heads explode, though. It's clearly been very helpful as we've turned one minor issue into another one involving Dennis' songs. It seems as if we're only going the wrong way.

I would not expect fans of the subject I cover to bow at my alter. I'm a journalist. I don't consider myself the subject. I don't know why you and Howie feel differently.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2020, 05:32:28 PM
On and on we go...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2020, 05:33:00 PM
I don't see anybody asking you to bow at any altar (not 'alter' as you wrote - some journalist??).

All I see is Howie defending himself and rightly stating that he's done exactly what you suggest - reveal what info he can in order to steer us in the right direction, without breaching his standards.

All this is pure fluff and distraction anyway. Clearly, as we've been told, the set is now being reworked for possible release, with Dennis's solo work from 1972 potentially being excised. What's so hard to understand about that?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 05:35:58 PM
Maybe it’s not expecting anyone to “bow at their alter”, * more like being treated respectfully even though they don’t bow down to *your* “alter”

*spelling mistakes intentional in my post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on October 12, 2020, 05:43:15 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

I was actually calling HeyJude douchey, "mental giant."

Keep dropping vague hints to let fans parse them out and speculate until their heads explode, though. It's clearly been very helpful as we've turned one minor issue into another one involving Dennis' songs. It seems as if we're only going the wrong way.

I would not expect fans of the subject I cover to bow at my alter. I'm a journalist. I don't consider myself the subject. I don't know why you and Howie feel differently.

I'm lost...

1. Who said the initial issue was minor?  If it was sufficient to cancel the entire set it doesn't seem like it was minor.  Maybe I missed something.
2. Who is the "we" that turned one minor issue into another one involving Dennis' songs?  And, where did you get the idea that anything "we" did resulted in the original issue turning into the most recent issue?

Regarding calling someone douchey, here is what was said:

"The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey."

1. Insiders, plural.  Unless HeyJude is plural, you were calling he and at least one other douchey.
2. You specifically said that "the insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as...douchey."  The only other insiders that are revealing anything at all are Jon and Howie, so it seems to me you were calling one or both of them douchey, in addition to HeyJude.

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 06:02:40 PM
Re #2 : and that’s where I have an issue. Someone attacks a friend of mine, I’m gonna attack back , especially when it seems someone is being willfully ignorant.

Or just trying to start sh*t. Either way, not going to let it stand.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on October 12, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
I love The Beach Boys (collectively...all of them).
I would spend a significant amount of money on a Feel Flows boxed set.  The more unreleased material it contained (regardless which band member wrote it or sang it) the more I’d be willing to spend on it.
I think there are a lot of fans like me (with disposable income) who sure could use some good Beach Boys vibes to help get through this coronavirus crap.

Hopefully the right pair of eyes will see and appreciate this message. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 06:26:25 PM
Very well stated. Hell, I’m saving up money specifically for this release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 12, 2020, 06:40:58 PM
Nice to see that Cam Mott signed the petition.

As always, thanks to Howie and Jon for their incredible efforts. I now call on some misterioso computer wizard to hack into Mr. Suppressive Personality's computer and liberate the FEEL FLOWS track list. Better slip it off onto a zip drive lickety-split, Doe-Boy!!  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 12, 2020, 06:53:19 PM
Since the set has not hit manufacturing, does anyone know what the drop dead date would be to actually get this manufactured for a release this year?  What is the lead time?  If at some point in the future they make the release date the last Friday of this year, when would the set have to been sent to manufacturing to be able to physically release it this year?  8 week lead time, 4 week lead time, anyone know?

A really interesting question.
Anyone know?

Seems like 4 weeks is sbout right from what goes on with other non- BB releases.

I don't know, but that's what it seems to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 12, 2020, 06:55:29 PM
Personally, the unreleased Dennis material is what I want most.  As much as I'd love to hear an instrumental "At My Window" (which I actually would), unreleased music by a talented songwriter is the trump card, and I hope the people involved realize that is how some of us feel.

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 12, 2020, 06:56:45 PM
The irony once again is how the crowd that started lambasting fans for being and acting "entitled" when they showed support for the box set release are now demanding more public information from people who have firsthand knowledge of the set's status and reasons why it's not scheduled.

Talk about hypocrisy.

So fans who want this set released are "entitled" and the band owes them nothing, according to that narrative...but people connected to the production of this set now owe those same people crying about "entitled fans" more info on the set?

Who's acting "entitled" now? What a farce. Again, consider the source.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 12, 2020, 06:58:21 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

Hardcore truth. Anybody who can’t understand this, quite frankly, is either a troll or needs some serious help

You left out super-stupid. They could be dumb as a doorpost!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 07:07:10 PM
Very true. I was trying to be gentle lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 12, 2020, 09:16:19 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

Thank you.  Well put, again. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on October 12, 2020, 09:20:48 PM
What is anyone here actually fighting about? Really. Sheesh almighty.

I should have expected that debates about autotune could only carry a message board so far, but this seems to be endless pages of yammering about a box set that 1.) is done but 2.) isn't out yet for 3.) reasons. We don't know 3.) for sure yet, although goodness knows the source of foulness in this band's history is never difficult to spot. And there may be 4.) more reasons being generated, this being a band that can never, and I emphasize never, get its sh*t together.

But we're eating ourselves alive here, and it ain't pretty or useful. I appreciate the insider knowledge, look forward to any potential release, and am ordering the Murry Wilson vinyl because it's actually coming out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on October 12, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
HeyJude, I think it's safe to say that my respect for you and your patience/persistence has tripled over the last few pages.

Also, from Howie's comments it sounds like we have already reached what would be considered a "drop dead date" for the box set's release by this year's end. But next spring is still a plausibility/possibility? Hopefully still in it's original configuration.
Thank you again to both Howie and Mr. Stebbins for you continued articulate and succinct contributions to an often messy discourse (my immense respect for all your behind-the-scenes efforts should not go without mention).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2020, 10:16:35 PM
HeyJude, I think it's safe to say that my respect for you and your patience/persistence has tripled over the last few pages.

Also, from Howie's comments it sounds like we have already reached what would be considered a "drop dead date" for the box set's release by this year's end. But next spring is still a plausibility/possibility? Hopefully still in it's original configuration.
Thank you again to both Howie and Mr. Stebbins for you continued articulate and succinct contributions to an often messy discourse (my immense respect for all your behind-the-scenes efforts should not go without mention).

Here, here!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on October 13, 2020, 06:29:08 AM
HeyJude, I think it's safe to say that my respect for you and your patience/persistence has tripled over the last few pages.

+1, as they say.

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on October 13, 2020, 09:35:46 AM
@Heyjude and @startbbtoday,. this argument is so simple but yet you will never agree to disagree about this.

* Those who don't know the reasons why this set isn't being released are making guesses and sometimes tongue in cheek guesses about what the problem might be.
* Those who know about the reasons shoot them down immediately and saying stop guessing, it won't change anything.
You're both right, and you're both wrong (in each others point of views).  

Personally I think it's great that we have some insider information on the boards, is it somewhat frustrating to not getting all the facts? Of course it is, but you have to understand where they come from. Would they be able to get this kind of inside knowledge if they immediately leaked the information they got on a fan forum? Of course they wouldn't.

And after all, we wouldn't even barely know about this set if it weren't for those who have inside information. Remember that and appreciate the information we're getting.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 13, 2020, 11:12:13 AM
While it's been said before, it bears repeating again - thank you Howie, Jon, and HJ for your tireless efforts. You folks should not have deal with the garbage nonsense that's being flung at you, nor should you have to deal repeatedly with people who just don't and won't get it.  

You all rock, and the vast majority of fans DEEPLY appreciate you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 13, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
While it's been said before, it bears repeating again - thank you Howie, Jon, and HJ for your tireless efforts. You folks should not have deal with the garbage nonsense that's being flung at you, nor should you have to deal repeatedly with people who just don't and won't get it. 

You all rock, and the vast majority of fans DEEPLY appreciate you.


👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on October 13, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
Thanks guys -- I appreciate it.

I tell as much as I can without fucki ng sh it up for everybody.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 13, 2020, 05:11:32 PM
We appreciate you immensely, brother 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on October 13, 2020, 06:17:19 PM
The guys in the band should see this set as a legacy thing.  It's not about selling units or getting fans now, it's about cementing their standing and winning fans for decades

How many of you have played the live version of Blondie singing Wild Honey, or WIBNTLA, or the alternate All I Want to Do with Dennis singing lead, or even an audience recording of them doing Jumpin' Jack Flash to a friend?  How many of the friends liked it and thought wow, this is the Beach Boys?  I'm raising my hand, and these are people who wouldn't listen to the Beach Boys on a bet.  How many other people do you think they in turn passed it on to?  Things like that roll across the years paying dividends, more so than another version of Do It Again.  Long term, long term.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 13, 2020, 06:28:56 PM
The guys in the band should see this set as a legacy thing.  It's not about selling units or getting fans now, it's about cementing their standing and winning fans for decades

How many of you have played the live version of Blondie singing Wild Honey, or WIBNTLA, or the alternate All I Want to Do with Dennis singing lead, or even an audience recording of them doing Jumpin' Jack Flash to a friend?  How many of the friends liked it and thought wow, this is the Beach Boys?  I'm raising my hand, and these are people who wouldn't listen to the Beach Boys on a bet.  How many other people do you think they in turn passed it on to?  Things like that roll across the years paying dividends, more so than another version of Do It Again.  Long term, long term.

I'm raising my hand. Same for me. I've shared recently-released BB recordings that have been freed from being locked up for 50 years, and I feel like some friends have opened their eyes. I second all of this. Yet I fear a stubborn band member who wants the reputation/legacy primarily to based on what's already established, but you know, hopefully somehow, someone behind the scenes will nudge them in the right direction, and I'm trying really hard to be optimistic as much as it pains me to think of the alternative. I hope someone behind the scenes can figure out how to make stubborn, bitter old coot have a change of heart. There's GOT to be a way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on October 13, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
Kennyhasbeenfound inspired me to go watch/listen to this for the umpteenth time.  Has there ever been a band with a more diverse and interesting history and back catalog?  I doubt it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uS6m0fN-Ow0

Long live The Beach Boys!  Free Feel Flows!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 13, 2020, 07:04:47 PM
Question from a poster naive both on the business aspect of these releases and just how much Dennis material is involved.

Hypothetically, if the equivalent of a disc is removed from a box set, is the price drop substantial? I think the price of $100 has been tossed around so could it be $95 minus one disc (not worth quibbling) compared to the more attractive, say, $65?

Just wondering if ‘somebody’ is thinking of sales numbers in the market rather than what the market wants?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 13, 2020, 09:16:52 PM
Question from a poster naive both on the business aspect of these releases and just how much Dennis material is involved.

Hypothetically, if the equivalent of a disc is removed from a box set, is the price drop substantial? I think the price of $100 has been tossed around so could it be $95 minus one disc (not worth quibbling) compared to the more attractive, say, $65?

Just wondering if ‘somebody’ is thinking of sales numbers in the market rather than what the market wants?

Don't think your theory makes any real sense.

It seems very clear now that these archival type releases are not motivated by commercialism to any substantial extent. It's all about the constant back and forth between what the fans want, on the one hand, and what the band is prepared to release, on the other. There's a lot of tension in there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on October 14, 2020, 04:19:28 AM
Thanks guys -- I appreciate it.

I tell as much as I can without fucki ng sh it up for everybody.

And you do it marvelously well. We wouldn't even know that it was done and how much work got put in to it, or how important this set actually is if it weren't for you


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 14, 2020, 07:51:12 AM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

I can't do anything to help you if you're going to be this ignorant of the band's history.

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.

I know all about the bands history! I would like to point out that there is a difference between what Mike has said, and what Mike's critics have exaggerated what he has said. I know that Mike denies ever saying 'Don't F with the formula'. So rather than tell me that we know Mike is behind Feel Flows box not coming out because we have preconceived bias that it has to be him. Please send me a link to prove that Mike has said any such thing, or evem those close to Mike. I will not buy into hypatheticals or rumors. I know that I haven't read everything on this topic, so maybe I missed it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 14, 2020, 07:52:54 AM
The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.



So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

I can't do anything to help you if you're going to be this ignorant of the band's history.

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.

I know all about the bands history! I would like to point out that there is a difference between what Mike has said, and what Mike's critics have exaggerated what he has said. I know that Mike denies ever saying 'Don't F with the formula'. So rather than tell me that we know Mike is behind Feel Flows box not coming out because we have preconceived bias that it has to be him. Please send me a link to prove that Mike has said any such thing, or evem those close to Mike. I will not buy into hypatheticals or rumors. I know that I haven't read everything on this topic, so maybe I missed it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 14, 2020, 08:47:40 AM
Question from a poster naive both on the business aspect of these releases and just how much Dennis material is involved.

Hypothetically, if the equivalent of a disc is removed from a box set, is the price drop substantial? I think the price of $100 has been tossed around so could it be $95 minus one disc (not worth quibbling) compared to the more attractive, say, $65?

Just wondering if ‘somebody’ is thinking of sales numbers in the market rather than what the market wants?

The issue of Dennis material doesn't have anything to do with trying to lower the size/cost of the set. I'm not even sure it would result in a disc being eliminated from the total disc count; it would depend on how material is reshuffled.

Either way, this is not an issue. I don't think any potential price points tossed around are anything more than speculation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 14, 2020, 09:01:47 AM
I know all about the bands history! I would like to point out that there is a difference between what Mike has said, and what Mike's critics have exaggerated what he has said. I know that Mike denies ever saying 'Don't F with the formula'. So rather than tell me that we know Mike is behind Feel Flows box not coming out because we have preconceived bias that it has to be him. Please send me a link to prove that Mike has said any such thing, or evem those close to Mike. I will not buy into hypatheticals or rumors. I know that I haven't read everything on this topic, so maybe I missed it.

Things have become much more calm in the last day or two on this thread, so I don't want to go back to that place again over re-litigating the same thing over and over.

If you know the history of the band, you should know very well both the myriad of politics as well as their level of interest/motivation in *actively making archival releases happen*.

I can't show very many quotes from band members on this subject, *and that's the point*. They rarely talk about it, especially outside of occasional quick promotional blitzes during the release of sets.

But there is no interview with Mike Love where, unprompted, he talks about the amazing archive of unreleased 70s material, let alone why it should be released.

We have the most recent interview with Mike from recent weeks/months where he's given a big, easy soft ball opportunity to talk about "Feel Flows", and he ignores it and minimizes what's even in the vaults.

There's the 1992 Goldmine interview where the interviewer seems amused with how little Mike knows or cares about reissues in general, and Mike seems annoyed the interviewer finds it amusing.

Speaking more generally about band attitudes in latter eras about the early 70s material, certainly Brian, Al, and Bruce have all spoken more often and more fondly of that era/material.

If what you're looking for is a Mike interview where he confirms *anything* about "Feel Flows", whether it's the existence of it, or who might be blocking it, or what material might be deleted by whom, then OBVIOUSLY such quotes don't exist. If you want to think all of the discussion on this set has been born of zero legit info and it's all speculation, that's your choice. But I assure folks, what I've said and what Howie and Jon have discussed is the real deal. I don't think anybody should have to explain for the 87th time why folks can't name every detail or every name when it comes to this stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 14, 2020, 11:14:36 AM
The “other” board is denying Mike said “don’t f*** with the formula” for crying out loud.... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 14, 2020, 11:59:16 AM
The “other” board is denying Mike said “don’t f*** with the formula” for crying out loud.... ::)

I haven't been on another Beach Boys board. Lol! I was just giving an example of something that has become historical fact in many people's minds when it may not be. It may be Mike that is blocking the release of the Feel Flows box. I would state that Mike was more involved in Sunflower/Surfs Up than he was Friends. But we did get the Wake the World sessions. That made less financial sense than a Sunflower/Surfs Up sessions. Isn't Mike business minded and thus more likely to sign off on this than the 1968 sessions? Hopefully there is just a hold up/discussion on what material will be on it. I would like to see Sweet and Bitter and My Solution on there. :) If there is more unreleased Dennis material that is unreleased, I would love to have that too. But if they are trying to cut 10 or 15 tracks, I wouldn't mind cutting songs we already have such as Lady, Wouldn't it be Nice to Live Again, Sounds of Free, etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 14, 2020, 12:17:49 PM
The “other” board is denying Mike said “don’t f*** with the formula” for crying out loud.... ::)

Mike DIDN'T say it -- it was something someone else said ABOUT Mike, which has stuck to him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 14, 2020, 12:27:05 PM
The “other” board is denying Mike said “don’t f*** with the formula” for crying out loud.... ::)

Mike DIDN'T say it -- it was something someone else said ABOUT Mike, which has stuck to him.

Arguing about Mike having not literally said those words is kind of missing the point in like 99% of the discussions it comes up in. Yes, it's important for the historical record to highlight that the actual literal quote isn't confirmed. I won't go into the weeds about how it's quite possible he *did* say it but doesn't remember, or that he said something similar but doesn't remember it, or that it was a case of someone paraphrasing a sentiment he expressed, etc.

But the reason this comes up all the time is because the quote certainly *does* reflect the attitude Mike had about the band at various points over the years. HIS OWN WORDS in interviews indicate as such. He has expressed that he was concerned about alienating the fan base that liked the old stuff. It's not even a completely unfounded concern!

But if someone is like "Hrrm, well, maybe Mike has an aversion to this or that because of the 'don't f**k with the formula' thing", a response that "Nobody can prove he said that exact quote!" is missing the point.

Sure, if someone is trying to attempt to explain how Mike feels about material, it doesn't do any good to insist he literally said that exact phrase.

But "Mike never said don't f**k with the foruma" is kind of like "Mike didn't fire Brian in 2012!" It's like, yes, yes, anybody whose opinion actually matters knows those things aren't actually literally true. But they both speak to more broad issues/sentiments/events.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 14, 2020, 12:31:08 PM
I would state that Mike was more involved in Sunflower/Surfs Up than he was Friends. But we did get the Wake the World sessions. That made less financial sense than a Sunflower/Surfs Up sessions. Isn't Mike business minded and thus more likely to sign off on this than the 1968 sessions?

No. Or rather, "no, not necessarily."

The politics surrounding the band and its history and its attitude towards various ears of the band's career are much more complicated.

I get it that some people want to try to deconstruct this stuff and simplify it. But no, it is nowhere near as simple as "Mike's a bottom-line business kind of guy, so why would he block something that would make money?", nor as simple as "Mike signed off on X, so why would he not sign off on Y?"

The band, collectively and individually, have ignored/turned down/missed many, many, many great business and professional opportunities over the years, for many, many reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 14, 2020, 05:06:54 PM
HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 14, 2020, 05:29:19 PM
HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.

It's pretty damn difficult to look at many of Mike's actions and not think that the quote in in line for something he would say back then, or a general vibe he would have espoused at some point, or at least something to that effect.

I mean, no less than Sir George Martin spoke about Mike in terms of being a scared band member, and scared people want to cling to what they know as a winning formula. Not sure why anyone thinks this is some revisionist history for this DFWTF quote (or the general nature of it) to be connected to Mike's way of thinking, even if he did nevertheless deviate from the "formula" sometimes anyway.

Clearly, the ultimate formula that worked for Mike was being Brian Wilson's main collaborator; that's without any doubt a songwriting team formula that he did not want to see anyone f*ck with and a position he didn't want to lose. D'uh x10000. Yet somehow, for reasons I cannot understand, there are people who find it offbase to connect Mike to that quote or idea.  Is there one person who'd say that if DFWTF was referring to the Brian/Mike songwriting team, that Mike still wouldn't have said/implied DFWTF?  That absurd claim would imply that 1960s Mike would be fine, totally fine, with that Wilson/Love team being reduced, diminished, or ceasing to exist as the main songwriting partnership of the BBs. Sure, Mike would be fine with that.  ::)

Plus, if that DFWTF quote somehow was somehow thought of in a positive context by the majority of fans and music publications, Mike would probably be happy to claim it as his own quote or his own general idea. Look, a lot of people (myself included) have occasionally uttered the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I can GET that mindset. Doesn't mean that Mike's fears of the formula being f*cked with didn't manifest in all sorts of ugly actions/reactions that continue to this day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on October 14, 2020, 06:33:50 PM

And even if Mike Love didn't actually say DFWTF, he absolutely thought it. But I'm thinking he actually not only said it, but had quite a bit more to say about it that we will never know about.  :old


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 14, 2020, 06:56:09 PM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 14, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Well let's just think for a moment. We have pet sounds which is largely a Brian album. Summer in Paradise which is largely a Mike solo album. What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

If we are going to talk about "appropriate" presentation of using the brand name, that's quite a rabbit hole to go down with when it comes to Mike. He has absolutely no shame with making things as Mike centric as he wants - because he can - but then wigs out if heaven forbid too much material that is centric of a different member is going to be highlighted too much.

But yes, it's entirely possible that's part of what his FF hangup is. It would still make him a tremendous hypocrite. To have these arguments when he is pushing 80, not to mention the elderly living friends of Dennis are in that same late period of their lives who might not even get to hear this music being released if it gets hung up too long... it's just inane, petty, and toxic... just let the music out there, MR. POSITIVITY, and let people enjoy it and purchase it and celebrate the entire band for crying out loud.

To agree with, apologize for, or legitimize that mindset is to really not be seeing the big picture here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 14, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Dennis’s solo material total is around 25 minutes. So there’s still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brian’s Back, etc
“Love You” was a Brian’s solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And don’t forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
There’s songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Don’t Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mike’s project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennis’s 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 14, 2020, 11:59:26 PM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Dennis’s solo material total is around 25 minutes. So there’s still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brian’s Back, etc
“Love You” was a Brian’s solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And don’t forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
There’s songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Don’t Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mike’s project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennis’s 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Phlip on October 15, 2020, 12:36:07 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 15, 2020, 12:37:31 AM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Dennis’s solo material total is around 25 minutes. So there’s still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brian’s Back, etc
“Love You” was a Brian’s solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And don’t forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
There’s songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Don’t Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mike’s project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennis’s 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Firstly, respectfully, we can drop this "one of the principles" speak. It's obviously Mike. It's funny how that similar dancing around the subject happens so often when discussing Mike stuff. You'll see it in documentaries, etc., it's been happening for so many years.

If somehow this scenario miraculously happens, that only the Dennis songs get excised from the set, no other tampering happens, and then all of those songs get released as their own standalone release several months later, that wouldn't be the end of the world exactly.

Yet keep in mind that would put less eyes and ears on the Dennis material, AND also less eyes and ears, and less interest on the FF project as a whole. Stronger together. You know this is true. Sad but true. Plus it would be likely that at least some of the material or some of the alternate mixes might fall by the wayside and never see the light of day. That would suck.

Plus honestly, I think I speak for a lot of fans in saying that such a compromise would somewhat taint the experience of the FF project in general if all DW songs were removed due to some jealous nonsense and bile of a bitter 80 year old. Not saying I wouldn't still enjoy the music, and I'm sure I would still love the contributions of all members, but in the back of my mind it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth that Mike was such an unbelievable douche, to not only screw over his late cousin, but to diminish the legacy of the band as a whole, which the intact set could obviously greatly enhance.

It would feel a bit like watching Orson Welles' studio-butchered masterpiece "The Magnificent Ambersons", and enjoying it, yet always wondering "what if"...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 15, 2020, 12:48:06 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

This is true, I think that sometimes the band might have a hard time seeing what the big deal is about certain albums, but in the case of FF, it seems to be something very different. There seems to be a roadblock by one member, Mike, aimed very specifically at a portion of the project.

More directly pertaining to your post, I think the bandmembers have started to realize over the years that there are hardcore fans for various BBs eras that they have not thought about for a while. So perhaps it's a bit of an education or an eye-opening experience for them to realize that this music which they had forgotten about is so beloved.  

Al is a particularly modest, "oh shucks" type of guy, so it makes sense that he would speak that way. The fact that he spoke previously about the FF set indicates that he knows it would really mean a lot to fans. He knows. The band knows. They are not strangers to this board, the internet in general, or to the wants and desires of money-spending, set-purchasing BBs fans.

But if there's not enough internal band enthusiasm for the project, then we should continue making noise and speaking our minds about how enthusiastic we are for the intact project to be released, and not shutting up about how gutwrenchingly terrible a decision it would be to mutilate and butcher the wonderful set that has been labored over for so long.

It would seem from the more recent series of posts from insiders that at this point the holdup is likely mainly (or maybe only) over Mike and his world famous ego, as opposed to a general lack of enthusiasm for the FF material/era by any other members of the band. Al or Brian saying "meh" isn't the cause of the holdup; Brian apparently has done extensive interviews for the box already, where he doubtlessly has touched upon the contributions of his late brothers, a subject he doesn't often tackle. I'm sure the box and its contents must mean something to him. But it wouldn't hurt to keep reminding him as well as the rest of the members of the band that it means something to us as well.

#intact #dontbutcherfeelflows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 15, 2020, 05:09:50 AM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Dennis’s solo material total is around 25 minutes. So there’s still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brian’s Back, etc
“Love You” was a Brian’s solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And don’t forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
There’s songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Don’t Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mike’s project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennis’s 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Yeah, I think you’re right.
If Dennis material would be removed from the set to be released as a Dennis Wilson project with all the songs and bonus material, it would be cool.
I still hope to see the songs released on FF, but a standalone release it would be great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on October 15, 2020, 06:17:10 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al isn't the only one.  Bruce has gone on record saying how he didn't like Friends, thought it was too lightweight and needed to be - I'm paraphrasing here - heavier and more aggressive.  Ironic considering Bruce's lightweight contributions to Sunflower and Surf's Up - but he did do a "heavy" rock number for 20/20 along with his instrumental.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 15, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 15, 2020, 09:50:57 AM
HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.

My point was that the post that evoked the "don't f**k with the formula" quote, which in turn got this latest discussion about the phrase started, was written with the knowledge that there's no confirmation of the quote. It was clearly meant to evoke/invoke a particular member vis-a-vis the current goings-on with this "Feel Flows" set.

My point was that if someone reads that post and their first reaction is to point out that the quote isn't confirmed, they're *entirely missing the point*.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 15, 2020, 10:10:39 AM
By the way, if anybody wants to take a look at Brian Wilson's Facebook page and see the Party! photos that were just posted, a solo Party session photo of specifically just Dennis (and no other members in the picture) was chosen as the main, primary photo for that grouping.

I doubt that's an accident either. It's another subtle hint that Brian wants his late brother's music released on FF.

As if that's still a question to anybody, hopefully it's not.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 15, 2020, 11:17:04 AM
Jude, I will drop it to get the thread back on track...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 15, 2020, 12:23:41 PM
Same here...

I don't have anything else to say here, other than I very dearly wish to buy this set! And I'd love to have the Dennis material included. The Dennis material needs to be released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 15, 2020, 02:45:18 PM
Honestly, I'd want the Dennis material to be on a separate release, only on the condition that there would be much more of it from the period in question. But I doubt that would happen. Regardless, it's important that all of the group members embrace their brother, cousin and friend by including his work on their box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2020, 04:00:57 PM
Yeah - if it was guaranteed that the Dennis stuff would come out on a different release later on then I wouldn't mind. But it doesn't seem that likely - sadly I doubt there's that much of a consumer base for it. Maybe if Pacific Ocean Blue's popularity keeps going we could eventually get an even more extended version, with Poops as an extra bonus disc after Bambu. In any case, Feel Flows is probably the safest and best chance of this material getting released anytime in the near future - which is why it's important we campaign for it to stay on there.

Surely Brian would have opinions on this - he has nothing but good things to say about Dennis as a songwriter.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 15, 2020, 04:16:06 PM
Yeah - if it was guaranteed that the Dennis stuff would come out on a different release later on then I wouldn't mind. But it doesn't seem that likely - sadly I doubt there's that much of a consumer base for it. Maybe if Pacific Ocean Blue's popularity keeps going we could eventually get an even more extended version, with Poops as an extra bonus disc after Bambu. In any case, Feel Flows is probably the safest and best chance of this material getting released anytime in the near future - which is why it's important we campaign for it to stay on there.

Surely Brian would have opinions on this - he has nothing but good things to say about Dennis as a songwriter.
The time to do it would have been right after the POB/Bambu cd release. Now sadly I think the momentum is gone. The same could be said for a reunited Beach Boys. Somehow I don't see the m playing Madison Square Garden now(they had an offer to play around the time the C50 tour was ending).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 15, 2020, 05:18:24 PM
Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 ::)

Dennis’s solo material total is around 25 minutes. So there’s still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brian’s Back, etc
“Love You” was a Brian’s solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And don’t forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
There’s songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Don’t Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mike’s project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennis’s 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Yeah, I think you’re right.
If Dennis material would be removed from the set to be released as a Dennis Wilson project with all the songs and bonus material, it would be cool.
I still hope to see the songs released on FF, but a standalone release it would be great.
:afro


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 15, 2020, 07:47:24 PM
Assuming that unlike the late 70s Caribou stuff, this early 70s Dennis stuff is owned by BRI and thus, no matter what, it's clearance for release requires a successful BRI vote on the question.

Ie. If not on this box set, then probably no reason to think a separate release would eventuate.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 15, 2020, 08:52:13 PM
Assuming that unlike the late 70s Caribou stuff, this early 70s Dennis stuff is owned by BRI and thus, no matter what, it's clearance for release requires a successful BRI vote on the question.

Ie. If not on this box set, then probably no reason to think a separate release would eventuate.

Also, unfortunately, there's also not necessarily a reason to think that *if* a separate release would eventuate, that it would for sure have *all* of the content that was intended for FF if FF were to be butchered up by Mike. I mean, there are many scenarios and ways that this could play out, and we're all hoping for the best, but I don't know why any real fan of the band would just get complacent and all chilled out like it's no big deal at this critical juncture.  

Unless they are somehow trying really, really hard to find a way to not pin what could happen on Mike, or if they want to preemptively reduce the heat that he'll surely get if he gets his way regarding the set.

It's not hard for me to sadly imagine a cut-up FF scenario, that would result in a reduced cultural/music history impact for both the band's legacy and Dennis' legacy (compared to what it could be). I don't know how any true BBs fan could think about this and not become royally pissed at the thought, and not be royally pissed at who'd be chiefly responsible if that were to occur. It does not compute. There may be some things that Mike gets too much heat for, which perhaps he should rightly be shielded from by well-meaning fans; this is not one of them. I only half-jokingly advocate a Save Mike From His Own Narcissism change.org petition.

We really shouldn't be happily complacent at the thought of getting some sort of reduced consolation prize here. Not only do I of course want to hear all the material as was originally intended for this set, but also I want to see my favorite band get the full (not reduced) accolades for this material that they ALL deserve.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 16, 2020, 12:20:17 AM
I would think that if the Dennis material was set aside for a stand alone release, there would be even more of it. Why would there be less? Maybe they'll reissue POB again - this time, with Bambu and the early 70's material on bonus discs. Don't laugh. The Kinks' Lola Vs. Powerman was just reissued as a double cd back in 2014; now they are set to release a deluxe box - I've forgotten how many discs, 2 was enough for me, but obviously there is a market for this stuff. The record companies just keep rehashing the same old stuff, so why not POB? Were there quad mixes made for the album? Maybe they can do some remixes of various songs; live versions -are there any? Maybe some outtakes from the All I Want to Do sessions  ;D.
10 years from now, we can look forward to box sets of Looking Back with Love and Celebration material. How about a deluxe edition of Going Public?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 16, 2020, 06:25:52 AM
I guess the difference is, despite the squabbling between the Davies bros., the Kinks' management clearly understands that archival releases are where it's at currently, and is free to create those without internal holdups.

Plus there's no single Beach Boys related song from this 'Feel Flows' era that comes close to being as well known as 'Lola' - especially not Dennis solo material that the layperson doesn't know exists.

It is a confusing situation tbh. All the material originally slated for this set has been mixed and mastered, even what is now possibly being cut out. It doesn't seem to make sense to never release that Dennis material which is 100% ready to go. Even if certain parties are worried said material will dilute or confuse the band's image going forward, that could easily be sidestepped by just releasing it with little fanfare as a digital only thing - they've done it before e.g. the extra Sunshine Tomorrow stuff which came several months after the main set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on October 16, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on October 16, 2020, 09:42:04 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

Maybe he thought you said "Never Learn not to Love"....possible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on October 16, 2020, 11:51:19 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

Maybe he thought you said "Never Learn not to Love"....possible.

I agree with that. He might have misheard you, perhaps? He has performed it live.

https://youtu.be/M0mAZr7BKzA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 16, 2020, 01:21:45 PM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

This is a good example about how all of these guys are sometimes just effing weird.

Some others theorized Al misheard you. I doubt it. I think he heard correctly, and reacted in that strange way. I would guess maybe he wasn't offended, but I do think he and all of the guys to varying degrees (especially Al, Mike, and Bruce who toured much more during the BB years than Brian did) often still fall back into the mode of being trigger-shy/apprehensive about "non-hit" material, or "less well known" material.

Sometimes the guys, especially in the years after Carl's death in the 2000s, have embraced the obscure stuff more to varying degrees (Brian and Al more so than Mike, but even Mike has done more deep cuts in the 2000s than he ever did in the 80s or 90s). But they also have it baked into their brains that "Obscure Deep Cuts" = something potentially bad. Lukewarm response for the audience, promoters being annoyed you're not doing more hits, all sorts of stuff.

So I think Al has often embraced deep cuts, and ironically has *specifically* singled out the track "Lookin' at Tomorrow" NUMEROUS times over the years. He added it back to the BB setlist in 1983 for awhile, during the height of the quickie-oldies-show-after-a-baseball-game era. Al also did the song with his "Family & Friends" band in 1999 and at subsequent solo shows in the 2000s, and then also of course with Brian's band.

It's one of his go-to Al-centric deep cuts, and in the same year he was probably doing the song in concert, he also could have easily been taken aback and felt trigger-shy about doing the song.

I asked Brian in a Yahoo online chat in 2000 if he'd ever do "Sail on Sailor" in concert, and he insisted he would *never* perform it. Then a year later he performed it.

I saw one of the few Brian/Al joint shows in 2007 (the infamous one where Brian decided to lay down and take a nap on stage), and Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

I think sometimes when Al thinks of a track from like 1971, he sometimes remembers the negative stuff and associates it with that. Other times, he is able to just look at the pure music and discuss how good it is.

This is why it's hard to trust how they feel about material and how they'll act towards it, either in concert or on archival releases, etc. It can change all the time. Al said in 2012 interviews that the reunion was a "one last time" sort of thing, yet I absolutely think he also really thought (naively) that the reunion would or could be permanent.

These guys are pro at contradicting themselves and each other.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on October 16, 2020, 02:01:40 PM
Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

In this particular case, based on what has been said over the years, it also seems that this has a lot to do with the him just really not being keen on the lyrics.
I forget what he said about it during the Warmth of the Sun podcase series, but I think he had good things to say about is musically.

On this topic, I always thought Mike sounds quite self-conscious/doubtful in the way he introduces Isn't It Time on the 50th live album


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 16, 2020, 02:14:39 PM
On this topic, I always thought Mike sounds quite self-conscious/doubtful in the way he introduces Isn't It Time on the 50th live album

Another area where they seem weird and arguably contradictory, because Mike indeed always seemed to have a kind of a subdued (and later more directly antagonistic) position about the reunion album, yet "Isn't It Time" was the *only* song from the album that he KEPT in his own setlist for his own band after the 50th tour was over. Granted, it didn't last long, but he weirdly kept doing that song after the messy end to the reunion and after he expressed misgivings about the album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 16, 2020, 02:23:28 PM
Artists have a weird relationship with their songs. I mean, Brian has stated numerous times how much he hates Sail On Sailor ( I think it’s more the lyrics if I recall correctly), which just blows my mind


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on October 16, 2020, 03:07:10 PM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

This is a good example about how all of these guys are sometimes just effing weird.

Some others theorized Al misheard you. I doubt it. I think he heard correctly, and reacted in that strange way. I would guess maybe he wasn't offended, but I do think he and all of the guys to varying degrees (especially Al, Mike, and Bruce who toured much more during the BB years than Brian did) often still fall back into the mode of being trigger-shy/apprehensive about "non-hit" material, or "less well known" material.

Sometimes the guys, especially in the years after Carl's death in the 2000s, have embraced the obscure stuff more to varying degrees (Brian and Al more so than Mike, but even Mike has done more deep cuts in the 2000s than he ever did in the 80s or 90s). But they also have it baked into their brains that "Obscure Deep Cuts" = something potentially bad. Lukewarm response for the audience, promoters being annoyed you're not doing more hits, all sorts of stuff.

So I think Al has often embraced deep cuts, and ironically has *specifically* singled out the track "Lookin' at Tomorrow" NUMEROUS times over the years. He added it back to the BB setlist in 1983 for awhile, during the height of the quickie-oldies-show-after-a-baseball-game era. Al also did the song with his "Family & Friends" band in 1999 and at subsequent solo shows in the 2000s, and then also of course with Brian's band.

It's one of his go-to Al-centric deep cuts, and in the same year he was probably doing the song in concert, he also could have easily been taken aback and felt trigger-shy about doing the song.

I asked Brian in a Yahoo online chat in 2000 if he'd ever do "Sail on Sailor" in concert, and he insisted he would *never* perform it. Then a year later he performed it.

I saw one of the few Brian/Al joint shows in 2007 (the infamous one where Brian decided to lay down and take a nap on stage), and Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

I think sometimes when Al thinks of a track from like 1971, he sometimes remembers the negative stuff and associates it with that. Other times, he is able to just look at the pure music and discuss how good it is.

This is why it's hard to trust how they feel about material and how they'll act towards it, either in concert or on archival releases, etc. It can change all the time. Al said in 2012 interviews that the reunion was a "one last time" sort of thing, yet I absolutely think he also really thought (naively) that the reunion would or could be permanent.

These guys are pro at contradicting themselves and each other.

It's been a couple years now (this was around October 2018), so I don't remember the exact convo - but I think you are right ... his response was bizarre, and these guys are bizarre at times. And tbh I was taken aback by meeting him in this way - as a fan. My take at the time was that he didn't think it fit with the vibe or image of the type of show he was doing. Like, "postcard from California"/folk tales of BB songs type of thing ... like Lookin At Tomorrow was political, etc. That was my take, but who the F knows ... no idea where he would have confused it with "Never Learn Not To Love", that's a real stretch ha.

EDIT: I remember a little more- I believe I said, "I'm surprised you didn't play 'Lookin' At Tomorrow" ... it wasn't like I was telling him he should have or requesting it ... made the response even more weird. I might have even said, "Since you played Surf's Up, I'm surprised you didn't play Take A Load off Your Feet or Lookin At Tomorrow", and he could have even said something like, "No, Lookin at Tomorrow is not ... [big pensive pause with offended look] ... it's not right ... you can't ... it's ... it's not appropriate ..." ... it was that weird man. I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words, but that was the general gist of the interaction.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 16, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
These days that song would actually fit the current climate quite well


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on October 16, 2020, 06:27:13 PM
It's been a couple years now (this was around October 2018), so I don't remember the exact convo - but I think you are right ... his response was bizarre, and these guys are bizarre at times. And tbh I was taken aback by meeting him in this way - as a fan. My take at the time was that he didn't think it fit with the vibe or image of the type of show he was doing. Like, "postcard from California"/folk tales of BB songs type of thing ... like Lookin At Tomorrow was political, etc. That was my take, but who the F knows ... no idea where he would have confused it with "Never Learn Not To Love", that's a real stretch ha.

EDIT: I remember a little more- I believe I said, "I'm surprised you didn't play 'Lookin' At Tomorrow" ... it wasn't like I was telling him he should have or requesting it ... made the response even more weird. I might have even said, "Since you played Surf's Up, I'm surprised you didn't play Take A Load off Your Feet or Lookin At Tomorrow", and he could have even said something like, "No, Lookin at Tomorrow is not ... [big pensive pause with offended look] ... it's not right ... you can't ... it's ... it's not appropriate ..." ... it was that weird man. I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words, but that was the general gist of the interaction.
I heard Al perform a lovely version of the song at City Winery in April 2018. just six months earlier. Truly strange!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 17, 2020, 12:11:46 AM
It's no mystery to me why Al might be gun-shy and/or choosy with respect to deep cuts.  Not all audiences and venues are created equal.  If Al feels that, say, "Lookin At Tomorrow" is appropriate at some venues and with some audiences but not at or with others, well, God bless him, Al may have very good reasons for thinking that.  

 I've told this story before on this board, but I too attended a "Something Great From '68" show.  It was at one of the big Indian casinos near Palm Springs.  And frankly I've never seen an audience less receptive to or appreciative of deep cuts than the crowd that night.   I mean, it was Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, Blondie and one of the best bands in the business... playing all this great music.... and folks were walking out early.  Not a few.  Not a trickle.  I mean, they were pouring out early in droves.   Sure, Brian and Al are in their late 70s and they've been doing this forever, and they're not guys with huge egos, but you can't tell me that they don't notice when a flood of folks are walking out early. On that particular night, it was a fairly big venue, and my understanding is that the casino gives away a fair amount of tickets to its gambling crowd who aren't necessarily even fans of the hits, let alone the deep cuts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on October 17, 2020, 02:47:43 AM
I think part of the "problem" here is that their hit songs have such universal appeal. Also, the Beach Boys, unlike the Beatles, aren't particularly loved for their album catalog (yet?). An album like Friends may appeal to hardcore fans (I know it's my personal favorite) but neither did that one sell at the time nor did it make it into those "best albums ever" lists by Rolling Stome or Mojo over the years. So I do find Al's surprise at the band touring that album understandable (if a little sad, personally). Not to the same degree as Pet Sounds, but Surf's Up is at least respected among critics I think (because it's a "darker", heavier record I presume) yet some of the lyrics and even the music on that album may be perplexing if you came to see Little Deuce Coupe and California Girls; genius songs, very uplifting and familiar too - and then comes Al Jardine and sings an unknown song about unemployment? I can totally see why that wouldn't work with every audience. The Beach Boys have virtually no history of challenging their concert audiences (except maybe for a couple of years in the early 70s).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 17, 2020, 09:20:10 AM
Maybe not the Beach Boys with a few exceptions (like the '93 box set performances), but man some of those earlier pre-Smile Brian tours were full of deep cuts, just fantastic setlists full of tracks people never thought they'd hear played on stage, no less by Brian himself. There were some truly great setlists from 99-04 or so. After Smile was a blockbuster, a few tours got more deep cuts if not specific works like the Gershwin shows which I'd say were pretty challenging setlists, but the '68 tour I saw at the Tower had a great mix of hits and the deep Friends cuts. And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.

I agree about the casino crowds as described above, the practice of "comping" the gamblers and high rollers tickets for any number of shows is what leads to that kind of episode. It's a fucking weird subculture where older people get all these free gifts from the casinos and some just don't care what the shows may be or who is even playing, hence the walkouts. If it isn't their thing, they split and eat cocktail shrimp and prime rib at the buffet like there's no tomorrow, and money isn't even an issue since they piss it away gambling on the floor anyway. And the younger gamblers are there to gamble, not to see a legacy act. So it's kind of odd to expect a crowd like that to want to see whatever show they're getting comped tickets for.

How does this tie in to a Feel Flows box set? Honestly, and seriously, did most of the audience who paid a lot of cash to see McCartney live buy tickets to see him play deep cuts from Ram, or McCartney II, or even more than a few from Egypt Station or something? Hell no. They were there for the hits, and most were fine with that. Imagine Paul *not* doing Hey Jude or I Saw Her Standing There and instead doing deep album cuts that a few diehards would go nuts over and more in the crowd would be hitting the bathrooms or concession stands. Yet Paul's deluxe box sets have a core audience and they buy those deluxe sets en masse. There has to be a separation, and the success or lack thereof of a deluxe archival release should *not* be tied to what these musicians play at their live shows, again especially legacy artists who have a full library of "hits" and crowd-pleasers.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 17, 2020, 12:02:58 PM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I wish I could have been at a show with the Zombies! Unfortunately, I don't think they came to Dallas with them. I have seen Brian's groups about 5 times. Saw Mike's band once back in 99 or 2000.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 17, 2020, 01:33:41 PM

 And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.



https://youtu.be/gPNv5cPn5II


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 17, 2020, 06:39:53 PM
Maybe not the Beach Boys with a few exceptions (like the '93 box set performances), but man some of those earlier pre-Smile Brian tours were full of deep cuts, just fantastic setlists full of tracks people never thought they'd hear played on stage, no less by Brian himself. There were some truly great setlists from 99-04 or so. After Smile was a blockbuster, a few tours got more deep cuts if not specific works like the Gershwin shows which I'd say were pretty challenging setlists, but the '68 tour I saw at the Tower had a great mix of hits and the deep Friends cuts. And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.

I agree about the casino crowds as described above, the practice of "comping" the gamblers and high rollers tickets for any number of shows is what leads to that kind of episode. It's a fucking weird subculture where older people get all these free gifts from the casinos and some just don't care what the shows may be or who is even playing, hence the walkouts. If it isn't their thing, they split and eat cocktail shrimp and prime rib at the buffet like there's no tomorrow, and money isn't even an issue since they piss it away gambling on the floor anyway. And the younger gamblers are there to gamble, not to see a legacy act. So it's kind of odd to expect a crowd like that to want to see whatever show they're getting comped tickets for.

How does this tie in to a Feel Flows box set? Honestly, and seriously, did most of the audience who paid a lot of cash to see McCartney live buy tickets to see him play deep cuts from Ram, or McCartney II, or even more than a few from Egypt Station or something? Hell no. They were there for the hits, and most were fine with that. Imagine Paul *not* doing Hey Jude or I Saw Her Standing There and instead doing deep album cuts that a few diehards would go nuts over and more in the crowd would be hitting the bathrooms or concession stands. Yet Paul's deluxe box sets have a core audience and they buy those deluxe sets en masse. There has to be a separation, and the success or lack thereof of a deluxe archival release should *not* be tied to what these musicians play at their live shows, again especially legacy artists who have a full library of "hits" and crowd-pleasers.


Or the artists could play smaller venues, where the audience is the die hards, not gamblers looking to take a break from the slot machines.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 17, 2020, 10:58:58 PM
Speaking personally only but as an artist I’d hate to perform at one of those type of shows. “Ah so hey, new album’s up at fear2stop.bandcamp.com oh and hey they got the snow crabs out at the buffet now only $39.95 to get in. So here’s our newest....hey wait...please come back! Ah, sh*t”.

No thanks


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 18, 2020, 07:25:01 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on October 18, 2020, 08:07:55 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn’t want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought “I’ll start doing rare stuff, too.”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 18, 2020, 08:55:04 AM

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn’t want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought “I’ll start doing rare stuff, too.”

That was RJM, reporting live from inside Mike Love's brain. Now, the weather.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 18, 2020, 10:15:19 AM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 18, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
Ever experience deja vu???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 18, 2020, 10:27:54 AM
Ever experience deja vu???

I keep having issues with double post glitches on here


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 18, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn’t want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought “I’ll start doing rare stuff, too.”

I do agree that Brian was doing more deep cuts first. That is true. The first time I saw Brian live was during the first Pet Sounds tour. A couple years earlier I saw Mike and Bruce for the first time and the least popular songs they did were Do It Again, Disney Girls and Darlin. But that was true when Carl was still around.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 18, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
Ever experience deja vu???

Yes.

Oh, you mean because of the "The Beach Boys were nothing without Mike's showmanship" vs "Brian is a genius" thing. Yeah, that too.

I'll settle this once and for all - Brian is a genius.

Carry on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on October 19, 2020, 02:10:01 AM
I loved Brian doing deep cuts as much as anyone but I also think it's important that their early hit songs aren't considered "Mike material" as is sadly often the case, at least implicitly. Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Surfin' USA, Help Me Rhonda, even Little Deuce Coupe and Be True to Your School - while Mike may stand for concentrating on that type of songs in concert (first half of the 60s), musically those are all Brian's creations and they're all pure genius. Mike may have written some lyrics here and there (and I love his lead singing in the 60s!) but none of these songs would even exist without Brian, the band's main songwriter and producer, period.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 19, 2020, 06:45:05 AM
I remember in the 90's when Carl was still around that the band rarely dug too deep with their repertoire.  I thought it was remarkable when I heard them play "The Warmth of the Sun", "Darlin'", and "I Can Hear Music".  Then Al left the group and started his own thing and I finally got to hear deeper cuts I had always dreamed about seeing played live.  Love always seemed resistant to the lesser known material but he definitely has come around over the years.  In the early 2000's he had already started doing songs like "It's OK".  He has even performed "All I Wanna Do" live a couple of times.  Maybe Al and Brian's sets had an influence on him but I am glad to see all the surviving members openly embracing their overlooked material.  I also think their post-Pet Sounds content has been reevaluated over the years and looked at in a warmer light.  Remember that there was a time when half the band's catalog was out of print.  Ever since the twofers from 2000 the band has been represented in a much more accurate light.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 19, 2020, 08:29:26 AM

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago?

These are not indicative of Mike warmly embracing all eras and deep cuts. "All This Is That" (which *was* dropped from the setlist by the late 70s, only re-appeared briefly in 93/94 before being intermittently performed by Mike in the post-Carl/Al years) is clearly Mike's pet TM song. He does it more as a reference to his TM stuff than he does out of honoring deep cuts. "Forever" has never been a "regular" in the setlist. Carl sang it for like five minutes during the '88 tour, and then since then it has largely been a Stamos vehicle when he plays with Mike (yes, on occasion others like David Marks have sang it).

As I've mentioned, Mike has done more "deep cuts" in the 2000s, but he doesn't regularly do a ton of non-hits from the late 60s and especially the 70s or 80s.


I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

No, this is ignoring vast swaths of the band's history, selectively plucking out a few details. I don't know how much Mike has ever "praised" 70s material. Sure, he has complained about Capitol promoting them as a surf band, but I've always found that complaint to be really strange and ironic because it's basically the attitude Mike maintained for the majority of years. He seems happy to use the example to ding someone else, and his book is also full of stuff like that.

And if you read the Rolling Stone piece on the 2012 tour, you'll see how Mike felt about adding deep cuts. Long story short, he occasionally does it *on his terms*, when *he* picks the song, but when Brian suggests "Marcella" Mike has a very "Mike" reaction as described in the article. It seems the song only made it into the setlist because Brian just told "his guys" to play it, not even worrying whether Mike's guys would know it.

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I think you need to re-read the thread. Nobody has said the set has been blocked due to Dennis material.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Would anything short of a member admitting they blocked the set or asked for material be removed suffice? Because you know that's not going to happen.

If you want to ignore 60 years of band history, as well as people who work on these sets and are otherwise experts and scholars, that's your prerogative. But we've all been down this "prove it to me!" road before. That type of attitude is never convinced.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 19, 2020, 08:32:46 AM
I loved Brian doing deep cuts as much as anyone but I also think it's important that their early hit songs aren't considered "Mike material" as is sadly often the case, at least implicitly. Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Surfin' USA, Help Me Rhonda, even Little Deuce Coupe and Be True to Your School - while Mike may stand for concentrating on that type of songs in concert (first half of the 60s), musically those are all Brian's creations and they're all pure genius. Mike may have written some lyrics here and there (and I love his lead singing in the 60s!) but none of these songs would even exist without Brian, the band's main songwriter and producer, period.

And that's precisely why Brian has done most of those "oldies" himself in concert. Brian is proud of those songs too, and they are as much if not more his than they are Mike's. I remember some fans back in 1999 complaining about Brian doing "hits", and especially back then, it was important to remember than Brian's active tour years with the band were about 1961-1965, 1976-1982 (and even then somewhat sporadically in the later years), with only random appearances after that. So when he started touring solo, he *hadn't* performed those hits nearly as many times as Mike and the other guys had. I think Brian was "reclaiming" his hits a bit on his solo tours.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 19, 2020, 08:36:50 AM
I remember in the 90's when Carl was still around that the band rarely dug too deep with their repertoire.  I thought it was remarkable when I heard them play "The Warmth of the Sun", "Darlin'", and "I Can Hear Music".  Then Al left the group and started his own thing and I finally got to hear deeper cuts I had always dreamed about seeing played live.  Love always seemed resistant to the lesser known material but he definitely has come around over the years.  In the early 2000's he had already started doing songs like "It's OK".  He has even performed "All I Wanna Do" live a couple of times.  Maybe Al and Brian's sets had an influence on him but I am glad to see all the surviving members openly embracing their overlooked material.  I also think their post-Pet Sounds content has been reevaluated over the years and looked at in a warmer light.  Remember that there was a time when half the band's catalog was out of print.  Ever since the twofers from 2000 the band has been represented in a much more accurate light.

There's no "maybe" about it. Brian and Al's setlists, and the rave reviews of the quality of Al's shows in 1999, definitely had an impact.

Check out a 1998/1999/2000 setlist and show from Mike's band. It's often pretty painful. This was the era where the "deep cuts" were things like Bardowell and Adrian Baker singing "Duke of Earl", and Baker doing "Sherry." It *literally* started turning into an all-purpose "oldies" show, with multiple covers that the BBs had *never* recorded themselves. Had Brian and Al not been doing adventurous setlists, and had Scott Totten not joined Mike's band, Mike's band could have very well veered into true casino/lounge act oldies mode, adding Bobby Darin and Elvis tracks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 19, 2020, 10:01:26 AM
Any news about the current status of FF?
Dennis material is still an issue, there’s a chance to be released this year?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 19, 2020, 12:57:55 PM
Any news about the current status of FF?
Dennis material is still an issue, there’s a chance to be released this year?

Oh yes, this was a thread about Feel Flows.

Although I am not privy to any inside goings on, I think it's fair to say that we are at or near the point now where the next official news you'll hear is the day "70 We Had Joy, We Had Fun" hits the digital music stores. What an irony!

Anyways, it's looking pretty gloomy out here in Beach Boys fan land. Especially now Mike's group has taken bigger steps towards playing at a Trump show, and has been denounced by Brian and Al for it.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-10-19/beach-boys-splinter-over-politics-brian-wilson-trump-fundraiser


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 19, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
I continue to feel extremely bad for Howie, Jon, Alan, Mark, and all the fine folks who have worked so hard on this set, in the face of the continuing antics of Mike and his Trump promotion. I am hoping against hope that this doesn't make any sort of ripple in the FF negotiations (if any are to be taking place), but I cannot see the amount of bad press he is getting as being any sort of good thing that will help the set come out. If anything, Mike getting into extreme egomaniacal, double-down mode and doing whatever the hell he wants, regardless of anyone's feelings (like not telling Brian or Al about playing such a polarizing, high profile show) I fear may feed into and amplify a similar stubborn mentality over FF.

Plus I am afraid that Mike's actions in continuing to taint the brand name (he was trending on Twitter forchristsakes) will just make any release under the BBs name something that might not happen for a long time. I think that if we get FF in any form, it might be delayed quite a bit to get some space from Mike's high profile asinine actions.

Let's just hope I'm wrong. I can't be the only one who shares these fears. Maybe part of Brian's relatively softball statement rebuking of Mike playing the Trump show is intended to avoid unnecessarily further inflaming relations with a guy that Brian is very unfortunately tied to having to deal endlessly like a thorn in his side, and maybe trying to save FF is part of that relatively softball approach.  One day, I think we'll actually hear from insiders and from people VERY close to the top what they REALLY think of Mike. Could be the contents for a coffee table book. There are lots of silently stewing folks, I'm certain.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 19, 2020, 08:25:53 PM
As I posted in the other thread, maybe one of the purposes of this thread as to turn people off from being interested in Feel Flows.

Nothing surprises me anymore


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 19, 2020, 10:06:32 PM

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn’t want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought “I’ll start doing rare stuff, too.”

That was RJM, reporting live from inside Mike Love's brain. Now, the weather.
I think live performers start digging out more deep cuts when they stop recording new stuff - or no one is interested in the new stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on October 20, 2020, 08:35:52 AM
HeyJude said...  "Nobody has said the set has been blocked due to Dennis material."

Okay, now I'm even more confused. 

So none of the other Beach Boys are fighting (against Mike, from all hints) to keep all the Dennis material on the set?  They're all okay with dumping it to get the set released?  If so, that's very sad.

And the original issue of someone (Mike again from all hints) blocking the set because they have some "legitimate" concern in the Beach Boy world -- that has nothing to do with Feel Flows set, but is being used as a pawn to get what they want -- has that been resolved?

Okay, maybe I get it -- the original "legitimate" concert hasn't been resolved, and the box is still on hold.  And now Mike doesn't want the Dennis material on it, but the reasoning behind this has nothing to do with "legitimate" concern.

But it sure appears as if the Dennis material is being used by Mike as another pawn to get what he wants.  I guess the two issues could be totally unrelated -- but it seems a mighty far stretch to get there.    :spin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 20, 2020, 08:53:29 AM
HeyJude said...  "Nobody has said the set has been blocked due to Dennis material."

Okay, now I'm even more confused. 

So none of the other Beach Boys are fighting (against Mike, from all hints) to keep all the Dennis material on the set?  They're all okay with dumping it to get the set released?  If so, that's very sad.

And the original issue of someone (Mike again from all hints) blocking the set because they have some "legitimate" concern in the Beach Boy world -- that has nothing to do with Feel Flows set, but is being used as a pawn to get what they want -- has that been resolved?

Okay, maybe I get it -- the original "legitimate" concert hasn't been resolved, and the box is still on hold.  And now Mike doesn't want the Dennis material on it, but the reasoning behind this has nothing to do with "legitimate" concern.

But it sure appears as if the Dennis material is being used by Mike as another pawn to get what he wants.  I guess the two issues could be totally unrelated -- but it seems a mighty far stretch to get there.    :spin

I've tried to clarify it several times, and Jon Stebbins also pretty succinctly summed it up as well.

Here goes:

1. Band allows set to be compiled. It's completed, mixed, mastered, ready to go.

2. Internal issues having nothing to do with the set itself lead person(s) to delay/block the release of the set, claiming these internal issues dictate the set shouldn't come out yet.

3. Later on, separately, while the set coming out *at all* is still up in the air, a person(s) moves to remove virtually all of the Dennis solo material from the set. As far as I'm aware, this is simply something this person or persons wants/is demanding. They're not saying "Give me X, otherwise I'll veto this material." I suppose implicit in such a move is quite likely that they *won't* sign off on the set if the material is retained. Either way, this is all a separate brewing issue from the original scenario that delayed and appears to continue to delay the set for nearly a year at this point (give or take, depending on when you start the clock).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 20, 2020, 08:56:14 AM
Also, a point worth pondering in relation to this set (and undeniably other things going on such as the PR disaster that is Mike's choice of fundraiser gigs) is this:

Do The Beach Boys even control BRI anymore?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 20, 2020, 09:12:50 AM
HeyJude said...  "Nobody has said the set has been blocked due to Dennis material."

Okay, now I'm even more confused. 

So none of the other Beach Boys are fighting (against Mike, from all hints) to keep all the Dennis material on the set?  They're all okay with dumping it to get the set released?  If so, that's very sad.

And the original issue of someone (Mike again from all hints) blocking the set because they have some "legitimate" concern in the Beach Boy world -- that has nothing to do with Feel Flows set, but is being used as a pawn to get what they want -- has that been resolved?

Okay, maybe I get it -- the original "legitimate" concert hasn't been resolved, and the box is still on hold.  And now Mike doesn't want the Dennis material on it, but the reasoning behind this has nothing to do with "legitimate" concern.

But it sure appears as if the Dennis material is being used by Mike as another pawn to get what he wants.  I guess the two issues could be totally unrelated -- but it seems a mighty far stretch to get there.    :spin

I've tried to clarify it several times, and Jon Stebbins also pretty succinctly summed it up as well.

Here goes:

1. Band allows set to be compiled. It's completed, mixed, mastered, ready to go.

2. Internal issues having nothing to do with the set itself lead person(s) to delay/block the release of the set, claiming these internal issues dictate the set shouldn't come out yet.

3. Later on, separately, while the set coming out *at all* is still up in the air, a person(s) moves to remove virtually all of the Dennis solo material from the set. As far as I'm aware, this is simply something this person or persons wants/is demanding. They're not saying "Give me X, otherwise I'll veto this material." I suppose implicit in such a move is quite likely that they *won't* sign off on the set if the material is retained. Either way, this is all a separate brewing issue from the original scenario that delayed and appears to continue to delay the set for nearly a year at this point (give or take, depending on when you start the clock).

I was expecting for some better news about FF, but reading this makes me sad and almost losing the faith. I thought these issues were going to be worked out and the set would be released as originally intended.
It’s a shame to see the issue of removing Dennis material is still being discussed and maybe it’ll happen.
Man, maybe it’s better if they cancel the set anyway and release all of its contents as digital.
To see the project mutilated like this is infuriating.
Somebody doesn’t  want to Dennis songs to be released and gain some attention from press and fans, but it’s okay to gain some bad PR about doing the fundraiser gig.
It’s sad to be a Beach Boys fan now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 20, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
I would say all bets are off right now, as the political thing points up the fact that Mike is operating as if he is completely independent of the group.

The problem is, in terms of the history of the band as even the "mob wife" contingent over at "the nearest faraway place" sees it--hell, they actually had a very good thread there about the Holland years, which at least by implication suggests that the 67-73 period is highly regarded by a majority of "embedded" BB fans--if this set doesn't come out, it becomes a victory for those who want to push the pre-'66 material as the only thing that matters.

That's why the full track list needs to be leaked NOW, in order to capitalize on what is now once again in the public eye--the ongoing fracture in the band regarding its own identity. It's a perfect story for this moment in 20/20.

As much as I sympathize with those who suffered through the process of creating the set, I think the chances of creating a big enough public cause celebre about the situation will be squandered without someone stepping up to the plate and handing over that track list to the media.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 20, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
I would say all bets are off right now, as the political thing points up the fact that Mike is operating as if he is completely independent of the group.

The problem is, in terms of the history of the band as even the "mob wife" contingent over at "the nearest faraway place" sees it--hell, they actually had a very good thread there about the Holland years, which at least by implication suggests that the 67-73 period is highly regarded by a majority of "embedded" BB fans--if this set doesn't come out, it becomes a victory for those who want to push the pre-'66 material as the only thing that matters.

That's why the full track list needs to be leaked NOW, in order to capitalize on what is now once again in the public eye--the ongoing fracture in the band regarding its own identity. It's a perfect story for this moment in 20/20.

As much as I sympathize with those who suffered through the process of creating the set, I think the chances of creating a big enough public cause celebre about the situation will be squandered without someone stepping up to the plate and handing over that track list to the media.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

+1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on October 20, 2020, 03:37:11 PM
We are not getting this box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 20, 2020, 03:43:43 PM
We are not getting this box set.

If they’re going to remove Dennis or some other material, maybe we shouldn’t get this box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 20, 2020, 03:55:01 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 20, 2020, 04:06:57 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 20, 2020, 04:20:47 PM
I would say all bets are off right now, as the political thing points up the fact that Mike is operating as if he is completely independent of the group.

The problem is, in terms of the history of the band as even the "mob wife" contingent over at "the nearest faraway place" sees it--hell, they actually had a very good thread there about the Holland years, which at least by implication suggests that the 67-73 period is highly regarded by a majority of "embedded" BB fans--if this set doesn't come out, it becomes a victory for those who want to push the pre-'66 material as the only thing that matters.

That's why the full track list needs to be leaked NOW, in order to capitalize on what is now once again in the public eye--the ongoing fracture in the band regarding its own identity. It's a perfect story for this moment in 20/20.

As much as I sympathize with those who suffered through the process of creating the set, I think the chances of creating a big enough public cause celebre about the situation will be squandered without someone stepping up to the plate and handing over that track list to the media.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

+1

+2


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 20, 2020, 05:40:14 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 20, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Totally man. I respect the hell out of your viewpoint and I agree completely. Maybe when Mike is crying into his soup after his narcissistic buddy loses the election, he'll come around to the idea of releasing the set, I don't know. But I also agree that the tracklisting still needs to get out there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on October 20, 2020, 09:22:15 PM
I would say all bets are off right now, as the political thing points up the fact that Mike is operating as if he is completely independent of the group.

The problem is, in terms of the history of the band as even the "mob wife" contingent over at "the nearest faraway place" sees it--hell, they actually had a very good thread there about the Holland years, which at least by implication suggests that the 67-73 period is highly regarded by a majority of "embedded" BB fans--if this set doesn't come out, it becomes a victory for those who want to push the pre-'66 material as the only thing that matters.

That's why the full track list needs to be leaked NOW, in order to capitalize on what is now once again in the public eye--the ongoing fracture in the band regarding its own identity. It's a perfect story for this moment in 20/20.

As much as I sympathize with those who suffered through the process of creating the set, I think the chances of creating a big enough public cause celebre about the situation will be squandered without someone stepping up to the plate and handing over that track list to the media.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

+1

+2

+3


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on October 21, 2020, 12:59:12 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 21, 2020, 01:02:09 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?
Oh, come on, of course it's Mike, it's always Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 21, 2020, 01:06:46 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?

It's patently clear that actual names can't be named at this juncture.

Beyond that, I think the strong hints and indications don't make this situation particularly ambiguous.

So, unless you're only saying it because we don't have ironclad 100% documentary proof of it, yes I'd say you're missing something if you feel it's 100% unclear who might be involved in some aspects of issues with "Feel Flows", and/or if you really feel it's equally likely that anybody could be the hold up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on October 21, 2020, 01:52:23 PM
It's patently clear that actual names can't be named at this juncture.

I cannot see how it would make a difference to anything at this point ?  :lol
(not that I am asking anyone to name names)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 21, 2020, 02:23:02 PM
It's patently clear that actual names can't be named at this juncture.

I cannot see how it would make a difference to anything at this point ?  :lol
(not that I am asking anyone to name names)

People obviously made promises to insiders that certain names won't be specifically named, and that certain on-the-nose facts won't directly be discussed.

It makes a difference if HJ or anyone else made a promise to somebody, purely on a moral/ethical level, plus not wanting to burn that bridge. Why is this hard to understand?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on October 21, 2020, 02:48:22 PM
I was just expressing my amusement that the name has been as good as spoken anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 21, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
It's patently clear that actual names can't be named at this juncture.

I cannot see how it would make a difference to anything at this point ?  :lol
(not that I am asking anyone to name names)

If you don't understand how it would make a difference, then I think you might not understand how sourcing and not naming names works.

Also, in many cases it's not as simple as the answer to all the problems being just one person's name. It can be two people. Or one person, with the unfortunate cajoled or tacit cooperation of another, and all sorts of other in betweens.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 21, 2020, 03:01:15 PM
I was just expressing my amusement that the name has been as good as spoken anyway.

Got it. Yeah, it's actually pretty amusing in the history of this band, how many times Mike is so obviously fingered for some sh*t act, but people dance around directly saying his name when talking about him. I don't know if that's a situation that will continue only as long as Mike is with us, but the situation of the dance routine is a remarkable phenomenon that I think is well past its sell-by date.

(In this case of FF, I totally get it, and have nothing but respect for HJ, Jon, Howie).

If someone made a thread about how many times Mike has been obviously fingered for crap behavior by people who avoid saying his name (Sir George Martin in Beautiful Dreamer, another interviewee in Beautiful Dreamer too, just for starters), it would be a very long list, and quite a dance routine indeed. Is it just because they're afraid of lawsuits? I mean, Mike himself does this when talking about Melinda Wilson in his dog whistle way, and I'm sure that's ONLY because he knows the media will rake him over the coals like never before, and that family drama will get stirred up to a point like it never had before, if Mike in every interview specifically ridiculously said what he obviously really feels, that "Melinda is keeping me from Brian, waaa waaa waaaa".

The amount of sh*t talking that must go on in private about Mike, both by members of the band past/present, must be astronomical. I have little doubt the Jardine household and various Wilson extended family households probably have at minimum armchair PhD level knowledge of the term Narcissistic Personality Disorder because of having had to deal with Mike directly or indirectly for so long.  

One can't have an honest discussion of the history of this band without acknowledging and diving deep into understanding Mike's Narcissistic Personality Disorder for decades, and the damage he has caused (none of that discredits the actual good stuff he did in the early years, either). Somebody scholarly will probably write a book about it one day. One of the things I loved the most about Dennis is that he was not afraid to straight up talk sh*t about what a horse's ass his cousin was, without beating around the bush.

Not everything bad that ever happened with the Beach Boys is due to Mike. But an overwhelming majority of the bad and regrettable things that are self-inflicted by members are because of Mike, both past and present, mostly due to the fact that Mike lucked out by living long enough to create as much damage as he has inflicted upon the brand, compounded by the fact of him becoming even worse and bitter and vengeful as a has-been old coot. The amount of damage is getting worse as time goes on, as Brian settles into his well-deserved Mozart of the 20th Century role, and Mike settles into his Salieri for the 20th Century role.

Just think about 2020, and the number of BBs-related things that Mike has done for the band/brand. There are not many things to choose from period (good or bad) because the year has been so stunted, so you have a small amount of items to choose from... and two of them are horrible Trump/Trump adjacent shows and the fallout/awful press from them... one of them is killing Feel Flows which makes me want to cry... one of them is Mike writing a wretched song that nobody asked for where he sings about a Viral Super Bowl, seemingly "acknowledging" the risks of the pandemic, but then he goes on to play a Viral Super Bowl Trump promo show to help elect a Covid-is-a-hoax snake oil salesman candidate, under the BBs brand name. I cannot decide whether Mike is more of a prick or more of an imbecile.

Other than 1983 and 1998, 2020 is bar none the worst year to be a BBs fan, and those bad BBs vibrations in 2020 are ALL because of Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 21, 2020, 04:30:01 PM
Is it just because they're afraid of lawsuits?

It could simply be that they possess a character trait that Mike Love unfortunately lacks: tact.

Just think about 2020, and the number of BBs-related things that Mike has done for the band/brand. There are not many things to choose from period (good or bad) because the year has been so stunted, so you have a small amount of items to choose from... and two of them are horrible Trump/Trump adjacent shows and the fallout/awful press from them... one of them is killing Feel Flows which makes me want to cry... one of them is Mike writing a wretched song that nobody asked for where he sings about a Viral Super Bowl, seemingly "acknowledging" the risks of the pandemic, but then he goes on to play a Viral Super Bowl Trump promo show to help elect a Covid-is-a-hoax snake oil salesman candidate, under the BBs brand name. I cannot decide whether Mike is more of a prick or more of an imbecile.

I cannot stress this paragraph enough. He made what, $50 off that song to contribute to COVID-19 aid? Again, the irony of him writing a $50 check with proceeds from his own COVID charity song, only for that money to feasibly end up helping some poor sod who was possibly infected at one of his concerts.

Anyways, that paragraph perfectly sums up the complete stupidity of this year in Beach Boys land. And I would seriously hope that the Mike Love sycophants would take a good hard look at that paragraph and contemplate their continued defense of this guy. I've noticed the excuses for Feel Flows have dropped off the radar on the EH forum. I'm pretty sure it's now very clear to those people that this set just isn't happening this year, and thus due to copyright dumps the set will likely have to be completely changed *if it's ever coming out at all*. What a absolute shame.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 21, 2020, 04:36:57 PM
You can’t stop the defense from a certain paragraph creating poster there..... ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 21, 2020, 04:52:38 PM
Is it just because they're afraid of lawsuits?

It could simply be that they possess a character trait that Mike Love unfortunately lacks: tact.


I agree that people who don't name Mike specifically in interviews despite obviously talking about him, like Sir George Martin, are doing that to be tactful, whereas Mike lacks tact, however granted Mike also does his dance routine without specifically naming Melinda. But I think he doesn't do that dance out of respect for her, but more of he knows he will start some real, real deep sh*t beyond anything he could possibly imagine if he repeatedly spoke ill of her by name in interviews.

However I really think that this Trump event and Mike killing FF should be the tipping point where people who are associated closely with band finally call him out, and speak their mind about him. At some point there's going to be a charred earth moment with some people. I don't have much doubt of that. It's just a matter of when. You know it's there just bubbling under the surface.

There are a great many number of people in high places who I'm sure absolutely hate Mike's guts and would love to be free to finally say what they really think. I'm grateful to whichever interviewer (who was it?) was able to get Brian in a relaxed and comfortable enough state to say how he really feels about Mike... which no doubt Mike thinks was something planted in his head. For what it's worth, Brian actually looks incredibly good and healthy in this interview clip, almost like he de-aged himself by 10 years compared to when it was filmed.

https://youtu.be/U4J6hxXq86Y


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 22, 2020, 01:28:17 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 22, 2020, 01:39:19 PM
Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 22, 2020, 01:40:00 PM

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

Magic Transistor Radio: You must be selectively ignoring the posts by Dennis Wilson's official biographer in this thread, who I think ranks as someone who would know what's going on behind the scenes. Or are you going to argue with him, and tell him that he's pushing false rumors?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

As has been stated by people who would know: just because there's examples of Mike greenlighting Dennis content in the past, that doesn't by definition mean that he isn't blocking it this time around.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 22, 2020, 01:42:49 PM

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

Magic Transistor Radio: You must be selectively ignoring the posts by Dennis Wilson's official biographer in this thread, who I think ranks as someone who would know what's going on behind the scenes. Or are you going to argue with him, and tell him that he's pushing false rumors?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

As has been stated by people who would know: just because there's examples of Mike greenlighting Dennis content in the past, that doesn't by definition mean that he isn't blocking it this time around.

I assume you are speaking of Jon Stebbins? I respect him. I haven't seen his posts on this topic. I will look for them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 22, 2020, 01:55:15 PM

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

Magic Transistor Radio: You must be selectively ignoring the posts by Dennis Wilson's official biographer in this thread, who I think ranks as someone who would know what's going on behind the scenes. Or are you going to argue with him, and tell him that he's pushing false rumors?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

As has been stated by people who would know: just because there's examples of Mike greenlighting Dennis content in the past, that doesn't by definition mean that he isn't blocking it this time around.

I assume you are speaking of Jon Stebbins? I respect him. I haven't seen his posts on this topic. I will look for them.

I didn't mean to come across as insulting, so apologies if I did. It's hard to know whether people are just deciding to purposely ignore certain information in the thread, or if certain important posts just got unintentionally overlooked.

I realize the thread is huge and there's lots of discussion. But yes, look up his posts and you will see that there is evidence refuting your idea that Mike is somehow not the stumbling block for the Dennis material. We are very lucky to have gotten the small pieces of info that we have, I don't expect folks like that to divulge more specific details if they are not able to, so it would be great if they weren't shamed for not sharing more (as I've seen others ridiculously do), because it's no doubt infuriating for them too to only be able to speak in code. I'm sure they would love to chat more about it freely, but obviously there are factors why they can't.

The actions of Narcissist Mike are a damn awful shame.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 22, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
Reading this thread is apparently heavy-lifting for a lot of people. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 22, 2020, 02:09:29 PM

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

Magic Transistor Radio: You must be selectively ignoring the posts by Dennis Wilson's official biographer in this thread, who I think ranks as someone who would know what's going on behind the scenes. Or are you going to argue with him, and tell him that he's pushing false rumors?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

As has been stated by people who would know: just because there's examples of Mike greenlighting Dennis content in the past, that doesn't by definition mean that he isn't blocking it this time around.

I assume you are speaking of Jon Stebbins? I respect him. I haven't seen his posts on this topic. I will look for them.

I humbly suggest not posting in this thread until you actually read it; all of it (or at least all the stuff since July). There's no rule that says you have to. But if you've missed Stebbins's posts, then you're not reading enough of this thread to realize that what's being said is not just fan conjecture. You've mentioned numerous things that aren't true (for instance, nobody said the hold-up on the set was due to removing Dennis material; I've explained that NUMEROUS times in this thread), that have already been explained in this thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 22, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 22, 2020, 04:42:06 PM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 22, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.

Please let's not state it's "the band", when it's Mike.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 22, 2020, 06:08:11 PM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Yeah, I totally agree with you 🙂
Based on the comments I know it’s Mike, and he’s a master to the embarrass the band and the brand.

Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.

Please let's not state it's "the band", when it's Mike.

Yeah, I totally agree with you 🙂
Reading the comments here it’s clear it’s Mike, and he’s the king of embarrassing the band and the brand.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 22, 2020, 07:51:26 PM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Yeah, I totally agree with you 🙂
Based on the comments I know it’s Mike, and he’s a master to the embarrass the band and the brand.

Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.

Please let's not state it's "the band", when it's Mike.

Yeah, I totally agree with you 🙂
Reading the comments here it’s clear it’s Mike, and he’s the king of embarrassing the band and the brand.

Sad and tragic, but if we are going to be completely honest with ourselves, it's the truth.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 23, 2020, 12:46:32 AM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.
I haven't heard anything good from McCartney in over 20 years. Neil, on the other hand, is releasing so much music these days I can't keep up with it all. I have listened to Dylan's latest, and I can't say it's one of my favorite things he's done, it's worth at least a couple more spins.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 23, 2020, 01:42:19 AM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.

Please let's not state it's "the band", when it's Mike.
So we're now blaming every single negative event in the entire Beach Boys career on Mike? Cool....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 23, 2020, 02:47:30 AM
Not everything, of course dude. Same thing we were talking about earlier about his actions tainting the legacy. Cause now they run the risk of being lumped in with guys like Ted Nugent, whom is a whack job no matter what end of the spectrum in this case. They NEED to put this box out ASAP; I fear that the recent controversy may hinder it further. As I stated earlier, perhaps that was the point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 23, 2020, 03:58:06 AM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Elora on October 23, 2020, 04:28:37 AM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some of use people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.

Others that have been blocked... (I'll edit this as I find new ones)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Big Sur
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Add Some Music to Your Day (A Capella)
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows
I Just Got My Pay (2019 Mix)
Slip On Through (Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro)
Long Promised Road (Track & Background Vocals Mix)
Add Some Music To Your Day (Alternate Verson)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 23, 2020, 04:33:11 AM
redundant information before I noticed the post above


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on October 23, 2020, 04:39:54 AM
Reading this thread is apparently heavy-lifting for a lot of people.  

I don't think anyone beyond the 10 relentlessly active posters on this forum have actually read through this entire thread, where the average post length is about 3 to 6 paragraphs of "Here's my 2 cents on why Mike Love is an asshole..." It would be nice if we had had a sticky or something that collected all the hard information we have, but such helpful and constructive ideas have never been this board's forte.

Have to mention: thanks to CorkOntheOcean for assembling all the posts up to early September (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26791.msg664617/topicseen.html#msg664617)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 23, 2020, 04:39:55 AM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some of use people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.

Others that have been blocked... (I'll edit this as I find new ones)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Big Sur
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Add Some Music to Your Day (A Capella)
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)

Did someone upload the TID demo on youtube?!?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Elora on October 23, 2020, 04:46:50 AM
Quote
Did someone upload the TID demo on youtube?!?
Not publicly, just unlisted for the purposes of seeing if it'd be flagged by copyright.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 23, 2020, 06:14:20 AM
Well... something is happening. Let’s hope this pans out the way we want it to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 23, 2020, 07:08:26 AM
Cool!
I was losing faith to see this box set released, but now seeing these uploads (even if it’s unlisted) at least things started to happen!
Let’s hope for a release ASAP, physical or digitally.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 23, 2020, 07:11:50 AM
Quote
Did someone upload the TID demo on youtube?!?
Not publicly, just unlisted for the purposes of seeing if it'd be flagged by copyright.

How recently was this done as a test? Meaning, is this a new thing where these tracks were taken down just recently, or might've happened a while back?

It's possible that the band alerted youtube to to keep certain FF tracks off of their site from being uploaded... but that might have been done preemptively back when the box was still on track before it got derailed. Not trying to be a Debbie downer just wondering if this is all a delayed remnant of back when it was going to be released, as opposed to this being something new and indicative of something positive actually happening right now regarding the release (I sure as hell hope it's the latter).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Elora on October 23, 2020, 07:26:44 AM
Quote
Did someone upload the TID demo on youtube?!?
Not publicly, just unlisted for the purposes of seeing if it'd be flagged by copyright.

How recently was this done as a test? Meaning, is this a new thing where these tracks were taken down just recently, or might've happened a while back?

It's possible that the band alerted youtube to to keep certain FF tracks off of their site from being uploaded... but that might have been done preemptively back when the box was still on track before it got derailed. Not trying to be a Debbie downer just wondering if this is all a delayed remnant of back when it was going to be released, as opposed to this being something new and indicative of something positive actually happening right now regarding the release (I sure as hell hope it's the latter).

The take downs were all noted today, some were new uploads to test the system, some were older uploads that had been fine until today. Supposedly they were added to YouTube's copyright database as of noon yesterday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 23, 2020, 07:41:05 AM
I've given up on this set ever coming out. I think 2021 will bring us another Mike Love cd, with more b-grade celebrities singing with him. Probably another remake of Do it Again. And there's gotta be a remake of Drive-In there. Maybe he can get his friend Donald Trump to do a rap on it - I hear he's soon to be out of work. He probably plays keyboards about as well as Bruce does these days.
I don't doubt that the Brian/Al/Blondie team is working up something for the coming year as well, maybe some Zoom shows. I can imagine the reviews: "Brian Wilson phoned in his performance."  :lol :lol


Me too.
At least we have McCartney releasing a new album to bring us some joy through this difficult time, and Neil Young releasing a great archival box set with tons of unreleased material in great quality.
These guys (the band, not Howie, Alan, Mark, the team that made it and also HJ and Jon) knows how to f*ck great things themselves.
It’s a shame, but maybe that’s why bands like The Beatles are greater each year and with more acclaim/respect, and The Beach Boys are become more and more marginalized.
At least, thank you for trying to release a set with tons of beautiful music and try to improve the Beach Boy’s legacy.

Please let's not state it's "the band", when it's Mike.
So we're now blaming every single negative event in the entire Beach Boys career on Mike? Cool....

As Billy rightly said, of course not everything is his fault. I never implied that everything negative in the entire history of this band was his fault, so I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth. However lots of things are his fault. In my estimation, an inordinately large amount of them, in no small part due to his narcissistic personality and how that has manifested. But certainly not everything is his fault.

When something is actually Mike's fault, such as trying to jealously screw over Dennis Wilson and remove his content from the box, well yes, he - and not his bandmates - should absolutely be called out for that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 23, 2020, 07:46:25 AM
Quote
Did someone upload the TID demo on youtube?!?
Not publicly, just unlisted for the purposes of seeing if it'd be flagged by copyright.

How recently was this done as a test? Meaning, is this a new thing where these tracks were taken down just recently, or might've happened a while back?

It's possible that the band alerted youtube to to keep certain FF tracks off of their site from being uploaded... but that might have been done preemptively back when the box was still on track before it got derailed. Not trying to be a Debbie downer just wondering if this is all a delayed remnant of back when it was going to be released, as opposed to this being something new and indicative of something positive actually happening right now regarding the release (I sure as hell hope it's the latter).

The take downs were all noted today, some were new uploads to test the system, some were older uploads that had been fine until today. Supposedly they were added to YouTube's copyright database as of noon yesterday.

Very interesting. This is a wonderfully brilliant way to circumvent whatever gag order has been in place in order to get the word out about what is on this box, and a taste of what could be in jeopardy.

It's certainly possible that we could get some or all of these tracks in a reduced copyright dump, but unless it's the whole set as originally intended, it will be a damn tragedy, and the media should know the details about this entire FF episode. Especially being that Mike's name just trendied on Twitter for the worst reason possible, there's clearly interest in the brand. Let's make that interest about something good for once.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 23, 2020, 08:01:42 AM
Reading this thread is apparently heavy-lifting for a lot of people.  

I don't think anyone beyond the 10 relentlessly active posters on this forum have actually read through this entire thread, where the average post length is about 3 to 6 paragraphs of "Here's my 2 cents on why Mike Love is an asshole..." It would be nice if we had had a sticky or something that collected all the hard information we have, but such helpful and constructive ideas have never been this board's forte.

Have to mention: thanks to CorkOntheOcean for assembling all the posts up to early September (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26791.msg664617/topicseen.html#msg664617)

Agreed on all points.  It's really, really hard to keep up with any actual news of anything happening when you have to wade through pages and pages of folks merely speculating and/or bickering with each other.  I honestly skip through most replies unless they are from one of the insiders. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 23, 2020, 08:02:37 AM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some of use people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.

Others that have been blocked... (I'll edit this as I find new ones)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Big Sur
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Add Some Music to Your Day (A Capella)
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)

I didn't even know any of these were actually up on YouTube.  Now I'm bummed I never got to hear any of them.  :-(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on October 23, 2020, 09:23:16 AM
Feel Flows
That is all


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on October 23, 2020, 09:30:05 AM
Has anyone tried uploading Feel Flows yet, god I love that song


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 23, 2020, 10:33:05 AM
FWIW, I had the alternate version of Tears In The Morning On my YouTube, and that got taken down in 2019!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on October 23, 2020, 10:34:07 AM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some of use people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.

Others that have been blocked... (I'll edit this as I find new ones)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Big Sur
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Add Some Music to Your Day (A Capella)
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows

I didn't even know any of these were actually up on YouTube.  Now I'm bummed I never got to hear any of them.  :-(

It's not so much that these tracks were put on YT then taken down, but rather certain tracks already published are now being identified with these titles. So "Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)" was never publicly online (at least to my knowledge), but the regular studio version is now identified and labelled by YT as being that track since there's enough similarities (and for some reason it wasn't already identified as being the 2009 remaster like some of the other Surf's Up tracks). You can see it in the description of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unn8wIQzAeE

While I may be getting ahead of myself, seeing this makes me think we might be getting a digital release not unlike the Wake the World and I Can Hear Music sets a few years before, this time covering 1970. These songs all have sessions from 1970* or earlier and together seem more than just a "release what's necessary to protect copyright" collection compared to the I'm Going Your Way EP. The real question is whether or not this hypothetical release affects/effected the planned contents of the box set, assuming the titles listed above are all that there is. The unreleased stuff was probably taken from the box set, but there's still a lot missing (nothing regarding "All I Wanna Do" or "Break Away", or booted things like the percussion track of "It's About Time" or "Add Some Music" with alternate lyrics). I think this is the closest thing to a leaked tracklist some of y'all we're hoping for.

*With exception to the two medleys ("All Of My Love/Ecology" and "Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows") and possibly "Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]". While I can believe "Ecology" has sessions dating from 1970, I thought the "Happy Birthday, Brian" was from Brian's 29th birthday in 1971? Does this mean it's from a year before, or that the real date is uncertain/unknown? Is this hypothetical release including 1971 material as well? And is "Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]" just Brian's vocal from the Smile Sessions (as this video suggests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK4im7frScQ) or is it...something else?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 23, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 23, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
And is "Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]" just Brian's vocal from the Smile Sessions (as this video suggests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK4im7frScQ) or is it...something else?

Well I saw it appear under a fanmix that made use of the 2011 Stereo mix of Surf's Up, so perhaps not. Top hope is a new mix of the Smile Sessions stereo mix with some of the 1971 elements re-added.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 23, 2020, 12:11:05 PM
Clearly someone is finding a way to preview portions of FEEL FLOWS via this YouTube mechanism.

Can POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA be far behind??

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! (Not meant literally, of course...!)  :police:

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 23, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
I humbly suggest not posting in this thread until you actually read it; all of it (or at least all the stuff since July).

There are classic works of literature shorter than this thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on October 23, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
Reading this thread is apparently heavy-lifting for a lot of people.  

I don't think anyone beyond the 10 relentlessly active posters on this forum have actually read through this entire thread, where the average post length is about 3 to 6 paragraphs of "Here's my 2 cents on why Mike Love is an asshole..." It would be nice if we had had a sticky or something that collected all the hard information we have, but such helpful and constructive ideas have never been this board's forte.

Have to mention: thanks to CorkOntheOcean for assembling all the posts up to early September (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26791.msg664617/topicseen.html#msg664617)

Thanks terrei. I've edited it slightly to bring it up to date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 23, 2020, 01:39:37 PM


I don't think anyone beyond the 10 relentlessly active posters on this forum have actually read through this entire thread, where the average post length is about 3 to 6 paragraphs of "Here's my 2 cents on why Mike Love is an asshole..."

But, you know, Mike IS an asshole, and he keeps gifting us with more and more reasons in 2020 to feel that way about him. And inarguably, his assholery is intrinsically intertwined with why the set is in the jeopardized position that is currently is, as has been stated by insiders who would know in this thread. So it's perfectly on topic.

Brian's social media said such in so many words today, too. There's a reason for that.

If we're very, very lucky, Mike's asshole behavior will be paused/muted/quashed in a manner that allows for this great music to finally be released, and for Mike's late cousin Dennis' music and legacy to attain the dignity that it rightly deserves.  And, ya know, for Mike HIMSELF to actually gain a few browine points. Mike's reputation is in the gutter, yet still, the set could help even him gain some respect if only for his long ago musical contributions.

There's a reason (the intact set's jeopardization) that people are deeply upset with Mike being a dick, and why that's being discussed. It's not like this was a random topic about the Breeding Habits of Maine Coon Cats that devolved into a Mike Sucks Fest. Mike's bitter attitude sucking so much is EXACTLY why this set is where it is at this very moment.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 23, 2020, 03:59:15 PM
A bit of interesting information that a few people have pointed out. Some of use people who upload rarities and remixes to Youtube have begun to receive copyright claims for a few distinct tracks.

So far these tracks have included:
  • My Solution [Track and Backing Vocals] (I swear this is real)
  • Good Time [2019 Mix]
  • Surf's Up [Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix]

Seems like some things are moving forwards.

Others that have been blocked... (I'll edit this as I find new ones)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Big Sur
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Add Some Music to Your Day (A Capella)
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)

I didn't even know any of these were actually up on YouTube.  Now I'm bummed I never got to hear any of them.  :-(
There's a brief (claimed) Til I Die piano demo up, but it's extremely distorted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxd4Nr-i7IQ


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on October 23, 2020, 04:04:10 PM
Sorry duplicate post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on October 23, 2020, 04:05:16 PM
Yes, that is indeed the ‘Til I Die demo.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Looking at the list again, some of the titles are making me hypothesize a bit. For one, "Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)" suggests there is a "Cool, Cool Water (2019 Mix)", that the former is a secondary mix. And "This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)" appears to be the extended track with backing vocals, but why not the version with lead vocals? Same with "My Solution".

Adding to this is how the list is mostly made up of alternate mixes (some of which have been previously released), new mixes of songs otherwise only available on box sets (barring Susie Cincinnati, but a new mix was on the MIC box set), and two medleys from 1971 (one of which seems to be humourous studio goofing and the other an assemblage of minute long fragments, including an early version of the "River Song" intro).

While personally I think all of this is cool, this isn't necessarily mind-blowing stuff, at least to the level Howie promised. Rather, it feels like a sort of Feel Flows outtakes collection, songs that didn't make the cut for the physical box set, like Sunshine Tomorrow 2, but with the copyright protected material included as well (although it's odd "Seasons in the Sun" and "Big Sur" aren't in some alternate mix like "My Solution", or "I'm Going Your Way" and "Carnival" for that matter). If this is the case (like I said, just hypothesizing here), Feel Flows as intended still has another year to come out mostly unscathed (the only major omissions probably being the aforementioned 1970 tracks, assuming Dennis' solo material survives as well). Unfortunately, it would also mean another year of scouring this and other Feel Flows threads in hopes of any positive updates. Can't wait :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 24, 2020, 01:16:03 AM
There's a brief (claimed) Til I Die piano demo up, but it's extremely distorted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxd4Nr-i7IQ

Oh my gosh.  That is one of those "what was that dude smoking when he got the bright idea of posting that?" clips.  The description has an explanation about how it's distorted because he removed a voice-over.   Ohhhh-kay, but if the end product is an unlistenable mess, why bother?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 24, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
There's a brief (claimed) Til I Die piano demo up, but it's extremely distorted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxd4Nr-i7IQ

Oh my gosh.  That is one of those "what was that dude smoking when he got the bright idea of posting that?" clips.  The description has an explanation about how it's distorted because he removed a voice-over.   Ohhhh-kay, but if the end product is an unlistenable mess, why bother?

It sounds like it belongs in one of the abstract pieces that Atticus Ross made for the 'Love and Mercy' movie...only not really because this just sounds bad. But I appreciate the effort. Hopefully we'll be able to officially hear this soon!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on October 24, 2020, 12:58:48 PM
Yes, that is indeed the ‘Til I Die demo.

Nope. That is only a part of the demo if that is all the uploader has. The demo runs 1:48 vs the uploaded 0:58 seconds. Plus brian says “let’s hear it “ as soon as he finishes playing  

It is in crystal clear no voice over no distortion releasable quality. Too bad the uploader called us trannies. I’m no longer in the “university” here so no uploading material for me at this time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 24, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 24, 2020, 01:56:06 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on October 24, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
Yes, that is indeed the ‘Til I Die demo.
Nope. You only have a part of the demo if that is all you have. The demo runs 1:48 vs your 0:58 seconds. Plus brian says “let’s hear it “ as soon as he finishes playing  
It is in crystal clear no voice over no distortion releasable quality. Too bad you called us trannies. I’m no longer in the “university” here so no uploading material for me at this time.

Bryand isn't whoever uploaded that video.



Oops. My bad then. Sorry about that. Amended my post.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 25, 2020, 09:12:01 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 25, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
This thread rules, 20+ pages out of John Stamos saying "soon-ish" and it goes half dead at the drop of new information about music

I think people are just feeling beat down and don't want to get their hopes up too much. As pathetic as it is, John Stamos saying what he said was the closest we've had to somebody who is a member of the band giving us any sort of timeline, or even acknowledging that it could still come out at all whatsoever. So that's different than a listing of songs that hypothetically may or may not be part of it. But hopefully they will.

Of course these songs from YouTube detectives (amazing work to those who have figured out how to crack that system) sound tantalizing and I'd be thrilled if they came out, but it still will be a real blow if the set is butchered and mutilated. Killing a bunch of Dennis Wilson content is completely unforgivable in my view.  After how to set has been described by Howie, it's a little bit hard to get all happy and excited about the thought of a butchered-up consolation prize. Plus Mike's antics with Donald Trump have just deeply soured many fans' whole attitude in general.

I'm still hoping for the best. But fans just don't wanna get their hopes up and get all excited only to be let down again. But we shall see what happens.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 25, 2020, 09:38:44 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 25, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
This thread rules, 20+ pages out of John Stamos saying "soon-ish" and it goes half dead at the drop of new information about music

I think people are just feeling beat down and don't want to get their hopes up too much. As pathetic as it is, John Stamos saying what he said was the closest we've had to somebody who is a member of the band giving us any sort of timeline, or even acknowledging that it could still come out at all whatsoever. So that's different than a listing of songs that hypothetically may or may not be part of it. But hopefully they will.

Of course these songs from YouTube detectives (amazing work to those who have figured out how to crack that system) sound tantalizing and I'd be thrilled if they came out, but it still will be a real blow if the set is butchered and mutilated. Killing a bunch of Dennis Wilson content is completely unforgivable in my view.  After how to set has been described by Howie, it's a little bit hard to get all happy and excited about the thought of a butchered-up consolation prize. Plus Mike's antics with Donald Trump have just deeply soured many fans' whole attitude in general.

I'm still hoping for the best. But fans just don't wanna get their hopes up and get all excited only to be let down again. But we shall see what happens.

I'm reliably told that delivery of sound recording assets to YouTube almost always comes with an album artwork asset (these are the videos you see on the 'topic' channels), and it usually happens 1-2 months ahead of release... so it looks like something got greenlit and put on standby here, maybe due for December. That means something's coming out unless a new decision goes the other way and stops it.

It's not exactly clear what got given the go ahead, though the inclusion of Ecology (a Dennis & Daryl track not meant for the Beach Boys as far as anyone's aware) makes me cautiously optimistic.

We were already assuming/expecting that we'd get a minimal copyright dump just purely for legal purposes, even if the full set fell through. But I guess since some of these songs seem to go beyond what would be be considered the most minimal required amount to preserve copyright (I think?), then perhaps this is an indicator that at minimum we'll get some sort of FF reduced consolation prize, somewhere between the barebones "as little as possible just to preserve copyright" and the maximum possible (lavish physical box with intact Dennis material as originally intended).

I'm cautiously optimistic too, and I always have been. I really don't want more reasons to dislike Mike or reasons to think of him screwing up what I love about this band (that being the contributions of all members), so I'm hoping and wishing and thinking and praying that this set doesn't come out in some sort of diminished form, which will leave a very bitter taste in my mouth, yes even if we get a consolation prize.  But again, I'm trying my damndest to remain positive, but it's damn hard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 25, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
A couple more have been surreptitiously detected. Current count:

Surf’s Up (Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Slip On Through (Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro)
Add Some Music To Your Day (A Capella)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Tears In The Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
I Just Got My Pay (2019 Mix)
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Good Time (2019 Mix)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Big Sur
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Long Promised Road (Track & Background Vocal Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows

It's adding up to something, but whether that something is the original boxset or a compromise version or a companion release in the vein of Sunshine Tomorrow 2 is anyone's guess.

How about interrogating the system as regards some of the Poops titles other than Ecology?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 25, 2020, 01:45:01 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on October 25, 2020, 02:50:41 PM
Regarding Poops material, I did discover one thing that could be related to it, although the connection is verrrrry loose and probably means nothing. An auto-generated video of the Lew London song "Old Movies" (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvFju97UOA) is listed as being composed by Dennis Wilson and Daryl Dragon. In reality, this song in particular is written by Mark Josephs, but it seems that YT confused it with "Old Movie", the Dennis Wilson title. With that being said, YT auto-generated video descriptions aren't infallible (elsewhere they credit Dennis' "Barbara" as being written by Brian and Daryl Dragon), but it seems strange that they mistook the Mark Josephs song for the still-unreleased Dennis one. Could just be there was more info on the Dennis song than the Josephs song. I also don't know exactly when this description was added, but no earlier then October 26, 2018 at least.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 25, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
Regarding Poops material, I did discover one thing that could be related to it, although the connection is verrrrry loose and probably means nothing. An auto-generated video of the Lew London song "Old Movies" (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvFju97UOA) is listed as being composed by Dennis Wilson and Daryl Dragon. In reality, this song in particular is written by Mark Josephs, but it seems that YT confused it with "Old Movie", the Dennis Wilson title. With that being said, YT auto-generated video descriptions aren't infallible (elsewhere they credit Dennis' "Barbara" as being written by Brian and Daryl Dragon), but it seems strange that they mistook the Mark Josephs song for the still-unreleased Dennis one. Could just be there was more info on the Dennis song than the Josephs song. I also don't know exactly when this description was added, but no earlier then October 26, 2018 at least.

Could you perhaps provide a screenshot of this description? Nothing is showing up for me when I look. The copyrighted audio description can be automatically updated by Youtube. For example a several month old video using Good Time was flagged as the 2019 mix a few days ago.

Also it's worth noting that the automatic copyright notices in the descriptions are becoming links, rather than the basic black text they were when this was first discovered. They only link back to existing mixes, for example "Surf's Up - Brian Wilson Lead Vocal" still links back to the 2009 remaster of Surf's Up, but a development is a development. Things certainly seem to be happening


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 25, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
How about interrogating the system as regards some of the Poops titles other than Ecology?

We've tried everything Poops related that circulates or is known but so far nothing's shown aside from Ecology


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Elora on October 25, 2020, 03:21:48 PM
Regarding Poops material, I did discover one thing that could be related to it, although the connection is verrrrry loose and probably means nothing. An auto-generated video of the Lew London song "Old Movies" (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvFju97UOA) is listed as being composed by Dennis Wilson and Daryl Dragon. In reality, this song in particular is written by Mark Josephs, but it seems that YT confused it with "Old Movie", the Dennis Wilson title. With that being said, YT auto-generated video descriptions aren't infallible (elsewhere they credit Dennis' "Barbara" as being written by Brian and Daryl Dragon), but it seems strange that they mistook the Mark Josephs song for the still-unreleased Dennis one. Could just be there was more info on the Dennis song than the Josephs song. I also don't know exactly when this description was added, but no earlier then October 26, 2018 at least.

For what it's worth when Ol' Movie was tested, it apparently got flagged with only Cuddle Up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on October 25, 2020, 03:34:08 PM
Here's what I see

(https://i.redd.it/wllwew4dhbv51.png)

It's not the same as the copyrighted audio links that have been noted thus far (with the "Music in this video | Learn more | Listen ad-free with YouTube Premium" prefaces), but it's still automatically generated by YT. But yeah, it's probably just mistakenly credited to Dennis and Daryl based on the credits of "Cuddle Up" (through its "Old Movie" title connection).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 26, 2020, 01:16:37 AM
How about interrogating the system as regards some of the Poops titles other than Ecology?

We've tried everything Poops related that circulates or is known but so far nothing's shown aside from Ecology

Thanks, that clarifies that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 27, 2020, 01:54:49 AM
I really do not know what to make of this, and it's making me a little unnerved. If we still get a 5CD set in 2021, I don't care how much they throw at us, but I don't want them to skimp, and then we get nothing. I'm happy for the Track and Background Vocals mixes to be digital only if they were never part of the 5CD set, as these are arguably 'filler', but are still a nice listen.

Fingers crossed for some info soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on October 27, 2020, 08:15:47 AM
I really do not know what to make of this, and it's making me a little unnerved. If we still get a 5CD set in 2021, I don't care how much they throw at us, but I don't want them to skimp, and then we get nothing. I'm happy for the Track and Background Vocals mixes to be digital only if they were never part of the 5CD set, as these are arguably 'filler', but are still a nice listen.

Fingers crossed for some info soon.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 27, 2020, 10:34:44 AM
Again, reminding everyone (and anyone in a position to do so...)  that this is the time to leak the full FEEL FLOWS tracklist. I suspect you'll find that most if not all of these items are part of it, and seeing the full list would allow media a chance to dissect the entire situation.

For example, it would allow Joel Goldenberg to go to town, as he's already updated his plea for FEEL FLOWS, coupled with a 50-year anniversary shout-out to SUNFLOWER. (Link provided for Joel's 10/17 article, which I have not seen posted here until now):

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-the-beach-boys-sunflower-at-50/article_4b370ca5-8489-5ee2-8b66-03f94ae32028.html

Once the full track list is out in the open for everyone to see, such media material will pop up all over the Internet. And it will make a positive difference. Let's put the "mob wife" mentality back in the drawer where it belongs--you don't get anyone to own up to a mistake by glossing over it. You present the best facts you have and let the chips fall where they may. If the BBs want to keep a loyal fan base who will buy ANYTHING of theirs again, they will have to figure out how to do some face-saving for the 75% of folks who are going to remember the events of 20/20 (divisive slash intentional...) and will boycott future product if it is tampered with after the fact.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 27, 2020, 11:26:13 AM
For example, it would allow Joel Goldenberg to go to town, as he's already updated his plea for FEEL FLOWS, coupled with a 50-year anniversary shout-out to SUNFLOWER.
FREE FEEL FLOWS!
Fact check: Exceptionally true.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 27, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 27, 2020, 12:45:18 PM
Again, reminding everyone (and anyone in a position to do so...)  that this is the time to leak the full FEEL FLOWS tracklist. I suspect you'll find that most if not all of these items are part of it, and seeing the full list would allow media a chance to dissect the entire situation.


Advocating that someone on the inside leaks a tracklist isn't exactly helpful unless you want them to lose their job or get blacklisted. If assets have been delivered to YouTube, something's been worked out for better or worse that no fan intervention is gonna effect. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Sorry - my grammar police hat comes on - "affect" not "effect".

And, I agree wholeheartedly - a deal has clearly been done now, and nothing new will change it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 27, 2020, 02:23:25 PM
Again, reminding everyone (and anyone in a position to do so...)  that this is the time to leak the full FEEL FLOWS tracklist. I suspect you'll find that most if not all of these items are part of it, and seeing the full list would allow media a chance to dissect the entire situation.


Advocating that someone on the inside leaks a tracklist isn't exactly helpful unless you want them to lose their job or get blacklisted. If assets have been delivered to YouTube, something's been worked out for better or worse that no fan intervention is gonna effect. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Sorry - my grammar police hat comes on - "affect" not "effect".

And, I agree wholeheartedly - a deal has clearly been done now, and nothing new will change it.

a. It's possible someone on the inside might just decide to say f*ck it, and risk burning that bridge, and go charred earth on this. Just think about the amount of insiders right now who would love to speak their mind about Mike Love (not just about him with regards to FF, but in general). You KNOW there's inside people (I can think of some specifically whose names I will not mention) who must have to bite their tongue to stay publicly quiet about their thoughts on Mike's terrible repeated behavior.

I feel like the Trump thing is getting close to the final straw with a lot of those people, and the dam may burst at some point. It came close to bursting with Rocky, until somebody "changed his mind" behind the scenes, the details of which must be a fascinating story - far more fascinating than his crap book.  Bottom line is that it might happen, it would just take someone who has major guts (not meant as a slight to anyone who doesn't leak the tracklisting, BTW), and it's entirely possible a leaker could leak it and not have things necessarily be traced back to them too. Trashed printouts sometimes get lost, case in point how Gloria helped free Brian from the clutches of Landy.

It could happen, but yeah I get there are ramifications that might cause it to not happen.  But it could very well happen from someone super close to the top who isn't posting on this board.

b. I think if the tracklisting leaked, and then (thanks to Mike) we were to get some reduced consolation prize cut down release, that Mike would, as Ricky Ricardo might say, have some explaining to do, and hopefully the media and fans would hound him for an answer, and perhaps he'd just relent and let the rest of the set be released in that case, at a later date.  Or maybe the other members would publicly address the missing tracks.

What was the deal with the Sunshine Tomorrow sequel digital-only set? Didn't that pretty much come about due to the unexpected success of the original physical/digital release of Sunshine Tomorrow? I wonder how exactly that came to be, does anyone know? I mean, I suppose that if enough media attention was put onto not only the great music of a hypothetically cut down set, but the media digging into why the rest of the Dennis tracks are MIA (if that were to happen), maybe a sequel digital set would happen that would fill in the missing pieces.

But the problem is, I think that not only the compilers, but the band (minus Mike) know what they have here; they know it's too good to just dribble drabble dump out like some unimportant nothingness, and to think of a bunt instead of a grand slam that could happen here, a release strategy like that would just be heartbreaking and perhaps unacceptable to the non-narcissist contingent of the band. On the other hand, Mike making as much news as he has lately for being a dick with the Trump show, might further incentivize music/media outlets to dig into why this set was cut down, if only to make more clickbait headlines about Mike being the Donald Trump of the music industry.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on October 28, 2020, 05:52:45 AM
Since it seems that once again this thread is going off on a tangent over leaking a track listing, is there anyone in the know that can provide any kind of status update on this project?  Is there any attempt going on to get this thing released or is it just sitting indefinitely in limbo? 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on October 28, 2020, 06:26:30 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 28, 2020, 06:29:03 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Fantastic News, thanks Howie!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 28, 2020, 06:30:55 AM
:rock :thewilsons :woot :woot :woot

Thanks so much Howie! Thank you for your hard work, and thank you to everyone behind the scenes who worked to get this thing going. I am smiling ear to ear right now ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on October 28, 2020, 06:48:38 AM
Great news to start a Wednesday with. Not even caring that I just typed a grammatically poor sentence. Not caring at all!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on October 28, 2020, 07:10:51 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Ah, Mr Kowalski got proper credit for the sliverware percussion on This Whole World (Rehearsals - Session Chatter)!

In all seriousness, I'm glad to hear this. Been looking forward to something about this period since last January.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on October 28, 2020, 07:27:54 AM
Fantastic good news!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on October 28, 2020, 07:30:05 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 28, 2020, 07:40:59 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.
With my Wildflowers 9LP set to arrive this week, and this, it's been a damn good week. Thanks Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on October 28, 2020, 07:51:34 AM
Thank Goodness!  Maybe 2020 won't be a total bust! :) :) :) :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 28, 2020, 08:37:12 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Oh man. That's so great to hear. thanks again for all your hard work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 28, 2020, 08:45:21 AM
90 pages, 2,289 posts - and that’s without any detailed information about this release.

Imagine the traffic when we start getting the details. Awaiting that pre-order on Amazon eagerly...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on October 28, 2020, 09:22:13 AM
❤️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on October 28, 2020, 09:22:51 AM
Thanks and congratulations, Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 28, 2020, 09:23:57 AM
That's awesome news, Howie! I'm so ready to drop money on this set.

 :happydance


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on October 28, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Best news I've heard in months. Thank you Howie and everyone involved in making this happen!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on October 28, 2020, 09:30:14 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Great news!
Thanks for your hard work, Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on October 28, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
SUPER , DUPER , WOOPER NEWS (All fingers and toes crossed)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 28, 2020, 10:46:42 AM
Howie, if things are at last moving along without a leak of the track list, that is clearly the best possible outcome. I can only presume that there have been a number of things going on behind the scenes of late...the details of which we are not privy to...and I think 99% of the folks will be fine "never learn(ing) not to love" (i.e. knowing all those details) if we wind up with an "all's well that ends well" scenario.

I do hope, however, that when the product finally appears, that folks will be forthcoming about telling us if anything changed from the original conception. I am hoping from the tone of your note that the outcome will be the release of the originally intentioned package, but I certainly understand that this is not something that should be publicly discussed until all of the "battles" and  "hurdles" and "roadblocks" and  "shackles" have been put firmly and permanently in the rear-view mirror.

As always, thanks for your fantastic work and superhuman perseverance...and I hope that the epic nature of this thread (in all its "long and winding road" aspects...hmm, wrong band!) might have played some small part in reminding the principals that love, mercy and support works best as a two-way street.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Radfahrer on October 28, 2020, 11:24:15 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

 :grouphug


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ken.W on October 28, 2020, 11:40:59 AM
In all seriousness, this is the best news I’ve heard in a long time. Thank you, Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 28, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.


Sweet! Thanks for the update!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on October 28, 2020, 11:45:12 AM
Overjoyed to hear that there is some good progress! Big musical blessing here folks to lap up. Thanks to Howie and all involved - you've done a sublimely good thing here pushing things along (edited).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on October 28, 2020, 12:04:16 PM
Great to hear this! All the best for the coming work, Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on October 28, 2020, 12:06:15 PM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Oh wow ..

Finally some good news this year  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 28, 2020, 12:19:44 PM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

A huge extra repeated thanks is owed to Howie and the team of folks behind the scenes (Boyd, Linett, etc.) who do more to make this stuff happen than you'll ever know.

And I think the fans who have kept the discussion going on this and kept it on the public/internet radar should also offer themselves and each other a thanks as well. It truly *has* made a difference. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I know we'll all stay vigilant/cautiously optimistic, etc. as things move forward. We all know with the BBs that we're never fully out of the woods until the product is out there in our figurative if not literal hands. But this latest news is good. I'm glad folks know that things are moving forward now.

The behind the scenes stories are interesting, and always ongoing, and there will be plenty of time in the future to ruminate on all of that. Right now, let's get this material in our ear holes....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on October 28, 2020, 01:16:02 PM
I think its clear what has happened. Mark McGrath convinced Mike to stop blocking the set backstage at the drive-in shows. God Bless You Mark McGrath. To thank him we should all go out and buy the latest album by Sugar Ray, their 2019 masterpiece Lil' Yachty


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 28, 2020, 01:58:45 PM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

A huge extra repeated thanks is owed to Howie and the team of folks behind the scenes (Boyd, Linett, etc.) who do more to make this stuff happen than you'll ever know.

And I think the fans who have kept the discussion going on this and kept it on the public/internet radar should also offer themselves and each other a thanks as well. It truly *has* made a difference. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I know we'll all stay vigilant/cautiously optimistic, etc. as things move forward. We all know with the BBs that we're never fully out of the woods until the product is out there in our figurative if not literal hands. But this latest news is good. I'm glad folks know that things are moving forward now.

The behind the scenes stories are interesting, and always ongoing, and there will be plenty of time in the future to ruminate on all of that. Right now, let's get this material in our ear holes....

This week my city comes out of a 4 month lockdown, and now this!

Thanks to all who worked on making this happen, especially Howie, Mark & Alan.

Now if my wandering brain calculates it correctly, we should have a track list by late November. A digital preview for My Solution by the weekend probably won't happen, but might have been a nice Halloween touch.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 28, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Great news, thanks Howie!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 28, 2020, 05:09:30 PM
Good news! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on October 28, 2020, 09:11:20 PM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

Thank you for the good news Howie. It is greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on October 28, 2020, 10:20:03 PM
[Deleted by user]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 29, 2020, 01:39:30 AM
The Killer, Jerry Lee Lewis said to Mike ‘I want that Feel Flows set released....Ole Jerry Lee doesn’t have another 85 years left in em son.’  :old


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on October 29, 2020, 03:24:18 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

A huge extra repeated thanks is owed to Howie and the team of folks behind the scenes (Boyd, Linett, etc.) who do more to make this stuff happen than you'll ever know.

And I think the fans who have kept the discussion going on this and kept it on the public/internet radar should also offer themselves and each other a thanks as well. It truly *has* made a difference. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I know we'll all stay vigilant/cautiously optimistic, etc. as things move forward. We all know with the BBs that we're never fully out of the woods until the product is out there in our figurative if not literal hands. But this latest news is good. I'm glad folks know that things are moving forward now.

The behind the scenes stories are interesting, and always ongoing, and there will be plenty of time in the future to ruminate on all of that. Right now, let's get this material in our ear holes....
Do we know if a 2020 physical release off the table yet, or still a possibility?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on October 29, 2020, 11:20:59 AM
YES!!! Can't wait!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on October 29, 2020, 06:23:24 PM
Jaw... dropped. Thank you, Howie!!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 30, 2020, 08:06:52 AM
I know Dennis’ material has been a focus of discussions here, but, considering the set is called Feel Flows, I’m hoping there’s a bunch of Carl stuff that’s previously unknown on this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 30, 2020, 08:27:04 AM
I'm with you, mtaber!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on October 30, 2020, 08:34:55 AM
Supposedly these new titles have been reported

Okie From Muskogee
Riot In Cell Block #9 (Live/1970)

And most interestingly....

Surf's Up (Brother Records Version)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 30, 2020, 08:42:24 AM
Great stuff!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 30, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Considering none of the tracks up on YouTube are actually from the "Feel Flows" set, I'm not sure how much of a corollary one can draw between those songs being pulled and the actual content of the "Feel Flows" set. It may correlate to the set existing (and even then I'm not sure), but it doesn't correlate to the specific content as far as I can tell.

Most of the notations on those YouTube tracks are essentially meaningless. It's usually people just ripping stuff from a CD, or at best re-EQ'ing something and calling it a "New 2019 Mix."

"Surf's Up (Brother Records Version)"? I mean, even if "Feel Flows" has ten alternate versions of the song, none of them would likely be given the super generic, non-descriptive caption of "Brother Records Version."

I'm guessing "A Day in the Life of a Tree (Don Rickles Lead Vocal Version)" and "Forever (Bob Saget Mix)" would also get flagged.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 30, 2020, 09:57:39 AM


I'm guessing "A Day in the Life of a Tree (Don Rickles Lead Vocal Version)" and "Forever (Bob Saget Mix)" would also get flagged.

I for one can't wait for the Rickles version!

Also, the world lost one of the greatest opportunities for comic gold ever, being that Rickles passed away before getting to officially roast Mike.  :lol Maybe someone creative with a good Rickles vocal impersonator on hand can do an animated version one day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on October 30, 2020, 10:03:00 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on October 30, 2020, 10:12:59 AM
Considering none of the tracks up on YouTube are actually from the "Feel Flows" set, I'm not sure how much of a corollary one can draw between those songs being pulled and the actual content of the "Feel Flows" set. It may correlate to the set existing (and even then I'm not sure), but it doesn't correlate to the specific content as far as I can tell.

Most of the notations on those YouTube tracks are essentially meaningless. It's usually people just ripping stuff from a CD, or at best re-EQ'ing something and calling it a "New 2019 Mix."

"Surf's Up (Brother Records Version)"? I mean, even if "Feel Flows" has ten alternate versions of the song, none of them would likely be given the super generic, non-descriptive caption of "Brother Records Version."

I'm guessing "A Day in the Life of a Tree (Don Rickles Lead Vocal Version)" and "Forever (Bob Saget Mix)" would also get flagged.


The titles are officially tagged assets that exist on the system, not names given by the users uploading videos.

Two recents (Surf's Up and Okie) don't follow the formatting of the others and I don't think they're related.

Ah yes, that makes more sense.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aingevt on October 30, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
A big thank you to all involved! I need something positive to illuminate this otherwise dismal year!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 30, 2020, 11:28:35 AM
Supposedly these new titles have been reported

Okie From Muskogee
Riot In Cell Block #9 (Live/1970)

And most interestingly....

Surf's Up (Brother Records Version)


Hmm...that sounds intriguing 🤩 I wonder...was this a special mix, or a re-record, or what...

We’ll know soon!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 30, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
The 1971 re-recorded version they tried?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on October 30, 2020, 01:58:31 PM
The 1971 re-recorded version they tried?

Oh, wow, very cool if it's that.  I don't think I'm alone in always wondering what that sounded like.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 30, 2020, 02:36:36 PM
Same here!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 30, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
I know Dennis’ material has been a focus of discussions here, but, considering the set is called Feel Flows, I’m hoping there’s a bunch of Carl stuff that’s previously unknown on this set.
That would be a nice surprise. The way people go on and on about Dennis' music, well...I'd like to see similar enthusiasm for what the baby brother brought to the group.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on October 30, 2020, 08:02:49 PM
Man, I really needed this good news.  Thanks to all involved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on October 30, 2020, 08:58:33 PM
I know Dennis’ material has been a focus of discussions here, but, considering the set is called Feel Flows, I’m hoping there’s a bunch of Carl stuff that’s previously unknown on this set.
That would be a nice surprise. The way people go on and on about Dennis' music, well...I'd like to see similar enthusiasm for what the baby brother brought to the group.

I think there's a lot of appreciation for Carl as a singer and defacto group leader in this period, as well as his role as a co-producer for most of these sessions. Still, Dennis was the much more prolific writer, and the comparative quality of their solo efforts speaks for itself imo. Writing just doesn't seem to have been a big priority for Carl - or at least not consistently over time.

I'd love to be proven wrong though. One does have to suspect that he wrote more than just three songs in the 71-73 period - he must at least have tossed off a few practice songs before coming up with something as good as Long Promised Road.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 30, 2020, 09:14:41 PM
I’m excited to see additional Brian stuff whether as a writer or as a vocalist. I’m almost certain we’ll hear a song we’ve never heard of before from him. That’s just a hunch based on past releases. This is my favorite period of him vocally so looking forward to it.

I keep going back to that Surfs up alternate version

I wonder too....could we possibly get the shows  where Brian replaced mike in better sound? 😱


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 31, 2020, 01:36:52 AM
If they actually have a decent quality recording of one of the shows where Brian subbed for mike, I might be ok with losing some of the Dennis material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on October 31, 2020, 08:56:19 AM
If they actually have a decent quality recording of one of the shows where Brian subbed for mike, I might be ok with losing some of the Dennis material.

And as they used to say in my family (more or less): "If your uncle was a lady, he'd be your aunt".

Confusingly, now I look back, I think it actually *was* my uncle who used to say that. Perhaps he was trying to tell us all something...?  :-D

But you take my point - it's about as uncertain as can be (at least to 99 percent of the uninformed target market for this set, including myself) what this mystery release might contain. Firstly, hardly anyone knows exhaustively *what* recordings exist for this period at all, and of those that do know, they are probably not going to tell us publicly, for very sensible reasons. Secondly, it seems likely (but is again actually just speculation) that of the stuff that exists, only some of it will come out on this set, assuming, of course, that this set ever does come out. Thirdly, the line-up of what might have been slated to come out at one point may have been changed since the original speculatory news leaked out. But actually we don't know this either, as that's all just hearsay and speculation too and also hasn't been anything like confirmed.

So: we don't know what the big circle in the Venn diagram comprises (the set of all 1969-1971 recordings that might possibly be included). We don't know what the smaller circle within that set comprises (the set of recordings that may allegedly, at one point, have been slated for release before the end of this year on something that, it seems likely, would have been called Feel Flows. Probably). And we don't know for sure yet if that smaller circle has changed and if so, what to.

That's quite a lot of what Donald Rumsfeld (lawd lavv'im) called 'unknown unknowns', right there.

I thought unravelling SMiLE or 'Can't Wait Too Long' was impossible enough, but at least we had a tracklisting for the former and some recordings for the latter. This set, at least at time of writing, seems even more elusively impossible to pin down. It's a riddle wrapped inside an enigma and sat on by at least two probable iterations of Schrödinger's Cat (Schrödinger's *Set*, anyone?   ;D  ). Although hopefully it won't be long before that changes...

Disclaimer: as usual in these matters, I know nothing and am privy to precisely no inside info. It's dull but true.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on October 31, 2020, 09:54:57 AM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

A huge extra repeated thanks is owed to Howie and the team of folks behind the scenes (Boyd, Linett, etc.) who do more to make this stuff happen than you'll ever know.

And I think the fans who have kept the discussion going on this and kept it on the public/internet radar should also offer themselves and each other a thanks as well. It truly *has* made a difference. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I know we'll all stay vigilant/cautiously optimistic, etc. as things move forward. We all know with the BBs that we're never fully out of the woods until the product is out there in our figurative if not literal hands. But this latest news is good. I'm glad folks know that things are moving forward now.

The behind the scenes stories are interesting, and always ongoing, and there will be plenty of time in the future to ruminate on all of that. Right now, let's get this material in our ear holes....
Do we know if a 2020 physical release off the table yet, or still a possibility?

From a post of his October 12:

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.

So now we know it has been sorted out and is moving forward, but I'm wondering if too much time has passed for this to be released this year. Howie's shorts weather comment makes me think it'll be next year - but I'm not sure how the copyright snag fits into this. Hopefully we get some details soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 31, 2020, 10:02:07 AM
If they actually have a decent quality recording of one of the shows where Brian subbed for mike, I might be ok with losing some of the Dennis material.

I kinda doubt Mike would be super happy about releasing a *full* show like that, which would/could show how the band was able to sound great completely minus him... maybe mayybe one song from one of those shows, if such a recording existed, but even then I'm not sure he'd be exactly keen on that idea.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on October 31, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
The only show I am aware from when Brian subbed for Mike that circulates is the spring 1970 Seattle show-I quite enjoy that boot but the sound is poor. I get the sense that it was an audience recording rather then something taped by desper-hence I question how much they could improve the audio of that if they don’t have any multitracks of the show in their vaults


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 31, 2020, 07:13:39 PM
I know Dennis’ material has been a focus of discussions here, but, considering the set is called Feel Flows, I’m hoping there’s a bunch of Carl stuff that’s previously unknown on this set.
That would be a nice surprise. The way people go on and on about Dennis' music, well...I'd like to see similar enthusiasm for what the baby brother brought to the group.

I think there's a lot of appreciation for Carl as a singer and defacto group leader in this period, as well as his role as a co-producer for most of these sessions. Still, Dennis was the much more prolific writer, and the comparative quality of their solo efforts speaks for itself imo. Writing just doesn't seem to have been a big priority for Carl - or at least not consistently over time.

I'd love to be proven wrong though. One does have to suspect that he wrote more than just three songs in the 71-73 period - he must at least have tossed off a few practice songs before coming up with something as good as Long Promised Road.
I'm the one person who got much more enjoyment from 'Carl Wilson' and 'Youngblood' than 'Pacific Ocean Blue' - although i much prefer POB to the stuff the group was putting out in 76-78.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 01, 2020, 01:37:29 AM
Love both Feel Flows and Long Promised Road, and while I'm a big fan of Dennis, I'm very happy to (hopefully) hear what else Carl was doing in this era.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on November 01, 2020, 10:34:20 PM
While we wait ... a little less impatiently ... enjoy ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCGyYJjW5Fo


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on November 01, 2020, 10:35:30 PM
DELETED ... Double post ... darn the internet ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on November 02, 2020, 03:25:25 AM
Wow, Blondie on drums, Ricky on guitar, the Dragons , Dennis D. on drums and Daryl on organ, a cool Eddie Carter.....and of course, Carl Wilson! Never knew Blondie played drums!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on November 02, 2020, 06:25:12 AM
All of this talk of Feel Flows reminds me of this Feel Flows homage from a band called Maple Mars.  What if Feel Flows met Pet Sounds...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-0mEi3IOs

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on November 02, 2020, 07:54:40 AM
All of this talk of Feel Flows reminds me of this Feel Flows homage from a band called Maple Mars.  What if Feel Flows met Pet Sounds...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-0mEi3IOs

EoL

Real nice!! Thanks for that EOL.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Niko on November 02, 2020, 11:54:06 AM
GUYS I HAVE NEWS

A few years back I made a compilation edit of a bunch of my favorite rarities and unreleased tracks (which you can listen to here https://vimeo.com/134540323)

I originally uploaded to youtube, but due to content ID strikes I made the video private.

However this video has just been hit with strikes again, with two songs that have NEVER been officially released - Big Sur (the 4/4 version) and even more exciting, a track titled: "Medley: All of My Love/Ecology"

That song title comes from the copyrighted material claimed in my video, not from me.

Go to the video and listen to the edit of ecology for reference - for anyone unaware its a medley of different pieces of music Dennis wrote - plenty of edits of the song have been made over the years, ours was close enough to the track getting released for it to be struck with a copyright I guess.

I think this is pretty good news for the box set going forward. f*** YEA

(https://img.techpowerup.org/201102/screenshot-2020-11-03-at-4-00-53-am.png)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 02, 2020, 02:40:52 PM
Wow


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 02, 2020, 03:44:30 PM
This was found out a few pages back. Here's the list of songs that have been discovered that way:

Surf’s Up (Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix)
Forever (2019 A Cappella Mix)
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (A Capella)
Slip On Through (Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro)
Add Some Music To Your Day (Alternate Version)
Add Some Music To Your Day (A Capella)
‘Til I Die (Piano Demo)
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals Mix)
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix)
Tears In The Morning (Track & Backing Vocals)
I Just Got My Pay (2019 Mix)
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix)
Good Time (2019 Mix)
Take A Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix)
Back Home (Demo)
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)
Seasons In The Sun
Big Sur
‘Til I Die
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 Mix)
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals)
Student Demonstration Time
Sound Of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master)
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)
Long Promised Road (Track & Background Vocal Mix)
Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 02, 2020, 08:42:56 PM
I wonder if that demo of Back Home is the Al version, or a different one entirely....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 04, 2020, 12:19:13 PM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 04, 2020, 01:08:40 PM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Filmore East 1971. It's a radio broadcast which is why random people can put it on their random albums.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 04, 2020, 01:17:04 PM


That explains it, thanks!
I was hoping it could somehow be a track from the boxset.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 05, 2020, 06:31:03 AM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Filmore East 1971. It's a radio broadcast which is why random people can put it on their random albums.



And now the video is gone.  🤷‍♂️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 05, 2020, 12:27:18 PM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Filmore East 1971. It's a radio broadcast which is why random people can put it on their random albums.



And now the video is gone.  🤷‍♂️

It works in the UK still.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 05, 2020, 12:55:25 PM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Filmore East 1971. It's a radio broadcast which is why random people can put it on their random albums.



And now the video is gone.  🤷‍♂️
It was never up in the US if that's where you're from. These random radio releases happen at totally random times in totally random countries. Has nothing to do with Feel Flows anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 05, 2020, 04:06:09 PM

Hey guys, what show / year do you think this is from?

https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4 (https://youtu.be/rimKDkeAeT4)


Do you think it sounds 1970-1971ish?




Filmore East 1971. It's a radio broadcast which is why random people can put it on their random albums.



And now the video is gone.  🤷‍♂️
It was never up in the US if that's where you're from. These random radio releases happen at totally random times in totally random countries. Has nothing to do with Feel Flows anyway.

Yeah I'm in the States so that was the case. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 08, 2020, 11:01:11 AM
Great to hear things are on track! Now we just wait for something like a release date.

Signed,

An Entitled Fan With Money Already Socked Away To Buy This Box Set

 :lol



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 08, 2020, 06:28:47 PM
A press release to say its actually coming at some point wouldn't be so difficult


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: AaronReturn2005 on November 08, 2020, 11:23:14 PM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 09, 2020, 04:19:09 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 09, 2020, 08:14:32 AM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.

That's not how the site's copyright detection works, it'd only take a few seconds of similar audio for the algorithm to find something to flag.

All of my production recreation videos get flagged initially, and not only are they not the original recordings, but are often missing huge chunks of instrumentation and vocals.  YouTube's AI is a big dumb brute at the moment.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 09, 2020, 09:47:25 AM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.

That's not how the site's copyright detection works, it'd only take a few seconds of similar audio for the algorithm to find something to flag.

All of my production recreation videos get flagged initially, and not only are they not the original recordings, but are often missing huge chunks of instrumentation and vocals.  YouTube's AI is a big dumb brute at the moment.

That's really bizarre, because I always just assumed that the algorithm was solely searching for a specific waveform, like a fingerprint identification, much in the way the Shazam app would do that.

What you are saying leads me to wonder if that might be the case, but additionally their dummy AI machine might flag stuff simply by title?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 09, 2020, 11:22:22 AM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.

That's not how the site's copyright detection works, it'd only take a few seconds of similar audio for the algorithm to find something to flag.

All of my production recreation videos get flagged initially, and not only are they not the original recordings, but are often missing huge chunks of instrumentation and vocals.  YouTube's AI is a big dumb brute at the moment.

Some Youtubers have resorted to changing the pitch and speed of certain sound recordings and movie clips to try and trick the algorithm/detection software. It makes me wonder if YouTube has changed the algorithm/detection system enough to where it also detects sound-alikes for the sake of weeding out the people who try to cheat the system.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 09, 2020, 12:23:19 PM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.

That's not how the site's copyright detection works, it'd only take a few seconds of similar audio for the algorithm to find something to flag.

All of my production recreation videos get flagged initially, and not only are they not the original recordings, but are often missing huge chunks of instrumentation and vocals.  YouTube's AI is a big dumb brute at the moment.

Some Youtubers have resorted to changing the pitch and speed of certain sound recordings and movie clips to try and trick the algorithm/detection software. It makes me wonder if YouTube has changed the algorithm/detection system enough to where it also detects sound-alikes for the sake of weeding out the people who try to cheat the system.

Clearly I am very uneducated about this, but it all just seems so weird to me because I always thought they just analyze the waveforms visually for a match, much like a fingerprint identification system.

I don't know how changing the pitch of a completely different recording made by a completely different person with different instruments could possibly trip the system into thinking it was something else. Weird.

However, I do understand that people change the pitch of official recordings in order to get the system to *not* flag official recordings. That's been happening for years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on November 11, 2020, 04:10:19 PM
Hoping all this quiet now will be followed by something causing great joy! 8) 8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on November 12, 2020, 09:40:24 AM
... for us who tend to drop by this thread some 5-50 times a day; we all have to take the responsibility to keep it alive – my take today; we will get a digital release before Christmas – a box set will materialize in 2021 – it is most unlikely the record company will be able to make a box set before Christmas – unless it’s already been in production – And for the company’s potential income – they know the box set will sell around 5000 whether Christmas or not -
And in a way, since Surf’s Up was released in 1971 it doesn’t seem too far out to release a box set to commemorate the release of this equally great (my all time favourite) record - have faith! -- all the best from Oslo :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on November 12, 2020, 09:41:14 AM
... double post -  8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 12, 2020, 10:02:59 AM
I really wish it wasn't crickets and that we heard some new FF news, but let's face it - Mike and Bruce might just be too distracted by their tears of sadness for their orange hero losing the election.

Maybe the sadness has kept the box set from coming out in any sort of expedited manner. It must be hard to sign BRI paperwork that is soggy from being drenched in tears. But if Mike wanted to help speed up efforts to greenlight the set to get it out before Christmas, a quick release could help pad his pockets with enough money to contribute to Trump's slush fund to pay off legal debts! Why doesn't Mr. Positivity look on the bright side?

Election "Fraud" Demonstration Time?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 12, 2020, 10:32:15 AM
I really wish it wasn't crickets and that we heard some new FF news, but let's face it - Mike and Bruce might just be too distracted by their tears of sadness for their orange hero losing the election.

Maybe the sadness has kept the box set from coming out in any sort of expedited manner. It must be hard to sign BRI paperwork that is soggy from being drenched in tears. But if Mike wanted to help speed up efforts to greenlight the set to get it out before Christmas, a quick release could help pad his pockets with enough money to contribute to Trump's slush fund to pay off legal debts! Why doesn't Mr. Positivity look on the bright side?

Election "Fraud" Demonstration Time?

Bruce mentioned to someone at a concert that he voted Libertarian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 12, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
I really wish it wasn't crickets and that we heard some new FF news, but let's face it - Mike and Bruce might just be too distracted by their tears of sadness for their orange hero losing the election.

Maybe the sadness has kept the box set from coming out in any sort of expedited manner. It must be hard to sign BRI paperwork that is soggy from being drenched in tears. But if Mike wanted to help speed up efforts to greenlight the set to get it out before Christmas, a quick release could help pad his pockets with enough money to contribute to Trump's slush fund to pay off legal debts! Why doesn't Mr. Positivity look on the bright side?

Election "Fraud" Demonstration Time?


Bruce mentioned to someone at a concert that he voted Libertarian.

Odd, he always struck me as a Federalist or a Whig.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on November 12, 2020, 11:34:32 AM
Good on him though. You got to be a particular heinous prick to have voted Trump, not for his politics really but because of his completely unacceptable conduct as president and person.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: positivemusic on November 12, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
As everyone should have, but so few unfortunately did. But, I digress.

I really wish it wasn't crickets and that we heard some new FF news, but let's face it - Mike and Bruce might just be too distracted by their tears of sadness for their orange hero losing the election.

Maybe the sadness has kept the box set from coming out in any sort of expedited manner. It must be hard to sign BRI paperwork that is soggy from being drenched in tears. But if Mike wanted to help speed up efforts to greenlight the set to get it out before Christmas, a quick release could help pad his pockets with enough money to contribute to Trump's slush fund to pay off legal debts! Why doesn't Mr. Positivity look on the bright side?

Election "Fraud" Demonstration Time?

Bruce mentioned to someone at a concert that he voted Libertarian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 12, 2020, 01:58:08 PM
Good on him though. You got to be a particular heinous prick to have voted Trump, not for his politics really but because of his completely unacceptable conduct as president and person.

Too bad we can’t all be the tolerant and peaceful type that wishes emotional suffering on those with different viewpoints (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27383.msg667134.html#msg667134).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 12, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
All I'm saying is that 1996, the Republicans lost. The Pet Sounds box was delayed. 2012, the Republicans lost, Made in California was delayed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on November 12, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
Good on him though. You got to be a particular heinous prick to have voted Trump, not for his politics really but because of his completely unacceptable conduct as president and person.
Judgemental comments like that are part of the reason Trump wins. No concerns over Hillary or Obama or Joe eh?
What part of a great economy, no started wars, and freedom do you hate? Seems your head is stuck in MSNB where every positive change this admin has implemented gets buried in the reporting cycle.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on November 12, 2020, 02:56:49 PM
I really wish it wasn't crickets and that we heard some new FF news, but let's face it - Mike and Bruce might just be too distracted by their tears of sadness for their orange hero losing the election.

Maybe the sadness has kept the box set from coming out in any sort of expedited manner. It must be hard to sign BRI paperwork that is soggy from being drenched in tears. But if Mike wanted to help speed up efforts to greenlight the set to get it out before Christmas, a quick release could help pad his pockets with enough money to contribute to Trump's slush fund to pay off legal debts! Why doesn't Mr. Positivity look on the bright side?

Election "Fraud" Demonstration Time?
By your logic, FF Box has been announced. Let's declare the winner before due process is followed through right? How is calling someone orange not racist?
Who are the world series champions for 2021? Please declare! Amazing how quickly it went from Russians made the 2016 election illegitimate to elections can't be illegitimate!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 12, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
No more politics in this thread.

Period.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 12, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
Politics somehow bleeds into seemingly innocuous threads...

Question:What’s the best song on Pet Sounds?

Answer: Trump supporters should be executed!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 12, 2020, 04:43:38 PM
Yep, can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen the rules broken here regarding politics, specifically:

Quote
2) Debate is fine; when it crosses into personal attacks, it becomes a different matter.   Publicly posting calls for members to be banned or for members to quit will not be tolerated. Any concerns should be addressed privately to the moderators.  Expletives or personal insults directed at other board members and/or moderators will not be allowed as signature lines, status, or as part of a poster's account profile when posting to the board. Any violations of this will result in a ban.Each case will be looked at on an individual basis.

6)Harrassment via unwarranted posting or via PM will not be tolerated. If someone has a beef with another member, taking it to private message is preferred rather than clogging the main board up. However, if recipient of said message asks the sender to stop contacting them, it needs to. Further contact after that will be addressed on an individual basis.

And they always get away with it. And who are the people doing the attacking? It’s the people calling the other people with different beliefs “fascist” “pricks”. Please for the love of it look up the definition of fascist before you use the term again.

Ban me for bringing up politics again, so be it. I’m with mtaber, I’m out of here anyways if people are going to continue to bring up politics in such a harassing and intolerant way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 12, 2020, 05:00:42 PM
^That’s why I’m bringing it up now . I don’t care what end of the political side anyone is; the nastiness has gotten out of hand. Election is over (Thank God) . What’s NOT over is the wonderful music we’ve gotten from this wonderful band, and that’s what we should be concentrating on.

Hey we’re getting the boxed set...that should count for something


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 12, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
I’m extremely excited to get this set.  We really can’t expect much “new” music from Brian and co.as the guys approach their 80’s, but the idea of sets like Feel Flows coming out every year or two is the next best thing.  Accolades to Howie, Alan, etc are well deserved!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 12, 2020, 05:36:10 PM
On a side note, has anyone heard anything from Emily recently? She used to post frequently but I haven’t noticed anything from her in quite a while.  I know she was dealing with some highly stressful stuff a year or two ago, just wondering if she’s ok. She and I used to go back and forth with Rocky two years ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 12, 2020, 05:36:30 PM
Thanks Billy. I cannot wait for the day when every single one of us has this set and we’re talking about the wonderful things on it! Hopefully it’s soon!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 12, 2020, 06:48:15 PM
On a side note, has anyone heard anything from Emily recently? She used to post frequently but I haven’t noticed anything from her in quite a while.  I know she was dealing with some highly stressful stuff a year or two ago, just wondering if she’s ok. She and I used to go back and forth with Rocky two years ago.

I was wondering about her too. Hadn’t seen her on Facebook either; I used to have her number but I’ve changed phones since then. I hope everything is ok


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on November 13, 2020, 12:02:16 AM
Politics somehow bleeds into seemingly innocuous threads...

Question:What’s the best song on Pet Sounds?

Answer: Trump supporters should be executed!

That's funny given the common image is of Trump supporters carrying assault rifles to "inspect" demonstrations, intimidate voters, storm armed into state capitols and plan abduction and murder of elected officials etc. Often seen driving around with ISIS-esque pickup technicals with huge flags and banners. Correct me if I'm way off here  ;D


Btw I don't feel the need to go down the political rabbit hole, just correct your victimhood example.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on November 13, 2020, 12:03:42 AM
Excited for news on the box set around Xmas hopefully


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Yorick on November 13, 2020, 03:02:36 AM
Can't wait for this boxset!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 13, 2020, 06:07:19 AM
What part of “no more talking about politics “ is so difficult to understand?

Final time I’m saying it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 13, 2020, 09:07:39 AM
Erased my post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on November 13, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
I just uploaded a copy of a Smile bootleg onto YouTube. Funnily enough, the piano demo of Surf's Up was tagged as the "Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix" some people are getting. Yes, the claim did include the entire first movement (with a different melody and ending to the backing track) and the falsetto outro from it, so this might suggest it's NOT a re-remix of the Smile Sessions version, but rather something closer to a '67 Surf's Up.

That's not how the site's copyright detection works, it'd only take a few seconds of similar audio for the algorithm to find something to flag.

Sorry, I'm a few days late on this conversation. I have been having issues with album reviews getting blocked now. Apparently, I can't play a song in the background while I review them anymore. At least some songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 13, 2020, 07:02:00 PM
In the meantime, Elton John has seen fit to release his mega Jewels box set today and there's an Elvis Presley box set of his June 1970 Nashville sessions coming out Nov. 20. So there certainly seems to be a market for box sets nowadays.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 14, 2020, 12:10:56 AM
Out of curiosity...any idea of the gestation period for those two sets (in comparison to Feel Flows)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 14, 2020, 09:41:13 AM
Out of curiosity...any idea of the gestation period for those two sets (in comparison to Feel Flows)?

You mean from official announcement to release? Elton was Sept 17 and Elvis August 7.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on November 14, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
Box sets are viable now for sure, trendy even. As soon as the Sgt Pepper one happened it was game on.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on November 15, 2020, 10:30:02 AM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 15, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 15, 2020, 12:24:03 PM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Here is the quote from EH, written by SaltyMarshmallow, if anyone is interested:

Quote
I guess the implication was lost on the last page, but apparently I have the green light to say it now: according to a reliable source (someone who works at Capitol), the group were approached about doing another reunion album earlier this year. Brian and Al both flat-out said no.

And I agree, CD. I think TWGMTR is a perfect send off from the band, and Brian had already wanted to do a follow-up album years ago which was refused by Mike due to the “writing alone in a room with Brian” thing (I think).

Would any of you want to be alone in a room with a guy who berates your wife and talks sh*t about your mental health to the press? *edit, I think many wouldn’t mind using the room as a UFC cage for a while, but in Brian’s case, I think he just wants to be free of Mike for good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on November 15, 2020, 01:09:25 PM
I guess this spells the end of the Beach Boys eh? If there are no new albums to produce, does this mean the dream is over?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 15, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
I guess this spells the end of the Beach Boys eh? If there are no new albums to produce, does this mean the dream is over?


It's not the end of the band when there is such an absolute game-changing goldmine of vault material left to be released, such as FF.

Plus, Brian and Al can always go back into the studio and record more new material if inspiration strikes. And Mike can do the sequel to his viral super bowl mega smash, Santa Goes to the Viral Super Bowl: All Things Must Pass II.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on November 15, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
Things are good. It's moving forward.

I can’t believe I never commented/responded to this. Awesome!! Thanks Howie!!

In the meantime, Elton John ... and there's an Elvis Presley box set of his June 1970 Nashville sessions coming out Nov. 20. So there certainly seems to be a market for box sets nowadays.

And I can’t wait for From Elvis in Nashville too. Been promoting both that and Feel Flows for at least a month or so whenever I can.

Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Here is the quote from EH, written by SaltyMarshmallow, if anyone is interested:

Quote
I guess the implication was lost on the last page, but apparently I have the green light to say it now: according to a reliable source (someone who works at Capitol), the group were approached about doing another reunion album earlier this year. Brian and Al both flat-out said no.

And I agree, CD. I think TWGMTR is a perfect send off from the band, and Brian had already wanted to do a follow-up album years ago which was refused by Mike due to the “writing alone in a room with Brian” thing (I think).

Would any of you want to be alone in a room with a guy who berates your wife and talks sh*t about your mental health to the press? *edit, I think many wouldn’t mind using the room as a UFC cage for a while, but in Brian’s case, I think he just wants to be free of Mike for good.

Disappointing of course, but I can’t say I blame them after Mike’s actions this year (and any time since 2012).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on November 15, 2020, 08:16:33 PM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Certainly not surprising that Al and Brian were not keen, given what has gone down in recent years.

In case I was not clear, my reason for posting in this thread was just to wonder out loud if there was any link between 60th anniversary discussions and the previous Feels Flows hold up. Hey Jude has said that the reason that was used for the hold up shouldn't logically affect a Feel Flows release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 15, 2020, 08:38:03 PM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Certainly not surprising that Al and Brian were not keen, given what has gone down in recent years.

In case I was not clear, my reason for posting in this thread was just to wonder out loud if there was any link between 60th anniversary discussions and the previous Feels Flows hold up. Hey Jude has said that the reason that was used for the hold up shouldn't logically affect a Feel Flows release.

I'm of the opinion that regardless of what knowledge insiders might have in determining the reasons of what could be causing the FF hold up, that nothing in the history of this band is necessarily unrelated to BBs-related decisions that happen in the year 2020.

I think the wounds (namely, Mike feeling wronged) stretch back decades and decades, and old resentments could be informing all sorts of decisions indirectly, FF included. To me there's a logical throughline of dysfunction. If Mike wanted a 60th anniversary album to happen, he's got to be pissed and hurt if the other members don't have interest in that - and Mike, when he is pissed and hurt, has a history of lashing out.

The trophy hunting show, the Trump show, all of the fallout from both of those, couldn't have *helped* the chances of a reunion album, nor could all of that bad blood have been a good thing for FF. The very best case scenario would be that those incidents would be neutral and have no effect, but realistically it just shows not only a breakdown of communication between the camps, but a concerted effort by Mike to conceal and hide things he intends to do with the brand name until the very last minute in order to minimize any pushback or make it too late for anybody to do anything about it. It's all terrible behavior that is so incredibly dysfunctional and childish for someone his age. Aren't people supposed to gain more wisdom as they get older? Mike seems to have the emotional intelligence of a six year old.

But it will be an incredibly happy day when FF finally comes out. It's literally the only thing that would get Mike, or the brand name - sadly due to his actions in 2020 with the brand name - a morsel of good press these days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on November 15, 2020, 11:18:59 PM
I don't wanna be too insensitive to those who may be heartbroken by the news, but that's kinda hilarious and gratifying that Brian and Al weren't even prepared to come to the table re: working with Mike again. I'm glad they've been able to establish healthy boundaries - Brian especially deserves peace and comfort at this point in his life. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on November 16, 2020, 03:54:06 AM
Brian doesn't need to do another BB reunion. The hit songs and Pet Sounds will be played for many generations to come - that's his legacy and nothing can change that. Also critics and fans will continually (re)discover some of the great lesser-known stuff from after the band's commercial peak. TWGMTR was a fine swan song to their career as recording artists. Despite some weird production choices it still holds up as a good album. That's much more than anyone could have asked for by that point. That said, I wouldn't mind another (last?) Brian album, ideally with Alan handling some of the lead vocals. It's tough to imagine a world with no new music by Brian Wilson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 16, 2020, 03:58:45 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 16, 2020, 08:38:04 AM
I don't wanna be too insensitive to those who may be heartbroken by the news, but that's kinda hilarious and gratifying that Brian and Al weren't even prepared to come to the table re: working with Mike again. I'm glad they've been able to establish healthy boundaries - Brian especially deserves peace and comfort at this point in his life. 


Healthy boundaries is a very good way of putting it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 16, 2020, 08:38:23 AM
The director of the Long Promised Road doc recently confirmed there'll be an official soundtrack including (oddly) a new song written and sung by Brian and Jim James from My Morning Jacket so hey, it's not nothing.

That is super cool news.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 16, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
Realistically, I don't think a 60th anniversary album and tour were ever in the cards.  Too much bad blood, too much rancor, they're all a decade older, etc.

On the other hand, I guess I would like to see them mark the 60th anniversary in some manner.  Let's face it.  If there is ever be a "last hurrah," the 60th is it.   They'd all around  ~90 for the 70th, so rule that out.

Ideally, I'd like to see them do a handful of "last call" shows somewhere around L.A. where it all began.  Book the Hollywood Bowl (or even the Hawthorne High auditorium), run through the greatest hits and a few rarities and call it a night.  I'd attend.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 16, 2020, 10:15:46 AM

In the meantime, Elton John ... and there's an Elvis Presley box set of his June 1970 Nashville sessions coming out Nov. 20. So there certainly seems to be a market for box sets nowadays.

And I can’t wait for From Elvis in Nashville too. Been promoting both that and Feel Flows for at least a month or so whenever I can.





And it seems to be going to be great judging from the previews we have (check the Elvis-thread in the "General Music" section of this board).


Was the offer for a new 60th anniversary album part of the 50th anniversary offering? I remember that Capitol offered them a deal for another album when they saw how successful the reunion tour and album were. Maybe when the reunion ended and it was clear that no new album was going to be made (putting aside the live CD) they said "It's not off the table. Come back for the 60th anniversary".
Anyway, I sometimes wonder if Mike's new recordings and output are partly meant to show Brian that he - Mike - can get things done and still write songs. Unfortunately, I've said that before, in that sense Mike's exhibits are mostly not that good. Many of his contributions to TWGMTR weren't up to par with the material. Although I really like "Daybreak over the ocean"; I wish the BBs would've had re-recorded it from scratch, though. The addition of their voices (especially Al's; "bring back my baby") takes this one to another level.

I guess TWGMTR is a fitting last album by this musical legend. But I can't help but wonder how some of the songs Brian came up with after 2012 and released on NPP like "The right time", "Tell me why" and others would've sounded with the complete surviving Beach Boys. Especially those two songs I mentioned are so great with the latter one blowing my mind to this day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: urbanite on November 16, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Didn't Al mention in a number of interviews, pre-covid, that there were going to be reunion shows?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on November 16, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Brian doesn't need to do another BB reunion. The hit songs and Pet Sounds will be played for many generations to come - that's his legacy and nothing can change that.

I think that's the essence of it - no new Brian/Beach Boys song could ever be as important as what he's already done decades ago. Now the same is true for someone like McCartney, but the difference is he'll probably never stop writing and recording cos it still comes so easily to him, and he doesn't care so much whether he has a hit. For Brian the self-pressure is still there, and he's on record as saying he struggles to write these days.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 16, 2020, 01:11:35 PM
Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Here is the quote from EH, written by SaltyMarshmallow, if anyone is interested:

Quote
I guess the implication was lost on the last page, but apparently I have the green light to say it now: according to a reliable source (someone who works at Capitol), the group were approached about doing another reunion album earlier this year. Brian and Al both flat-out said no.

And I agree, CD. I think TWGMTR is a perfect send off from the band, and Brian had already wanted to do a follow-up album years ago which was refused by Mike due to the “writing alone in a room with Brian” thing (I think).

Would any of you want to be alone in a room with a guy who berates your wife and talks sh*t about your mental health to the press? *edit, I think many wouldn’t mind using the room as a UFC cage for a while, but in Brian’s case, I think he just wants to be free of Mike for good.


Speaking directly to the comment about a 60th anniversary album, how does that relate to the Feel Flows box set at all? The only way it would is if Mike was using the release of this box set that has *nothing to do with* a 60th anniversary reunion plan as a bargaining chip or some other use of the box set to piggyback onto something he had in mind for a 60th anniversary project of some kind.

And in that case, it's exactly what fans here were calling out back in August after Donny L posted audio of an interview Mike had given related to the 60th anniversary and what may be in the works. Here is exactly what Mike said in August for those keeping track:

Transcript of the interview segment:

Darren Paltrowitz:
"The last time I interviewed you was two to three years ago, and during that interview you got a phone call from Jeffrey Foskett who had just discovered some kind of an archival release that you were thinking of putting out, and one thing that we haven't discussed is how many great archival releases from you and from The Beach Boys in the last three or four years. Is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

Mike Love:
"Well I don't know how much there is in the vault, but I'd, I'll tell you this, we're coming up on probably the 60th anniversary of the group in another year or so, and that warrants something special that's for sure, and so, um, I've got some ideas on that but we're too early to talk about it. But um, uh, I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and and as you say archival but also new renditions with other artists and stuff of many of our songs and that, that'll be a lot of fun to do. And I think I'm looking forward to what the future may bring."




So I'd say information being passed around about 60th anniversary albums has more to do with those specific issues than it does with this box set which obviously marks the 50th anniversaries of Sunflower and Surf's Up in 2020 and 2021. If it does relate directly to the holdup of the Feel Flows box, than it can be said the fans speculating (oh, the horror!) that Mike was holding up the set to use as leverage for projects he wanted to do were correct all along. And all that's on the record are the words of Mike describing new renditions of the band's classics with other artists and other compilations which he has ideas on "but we're too early to talk about it" as of August.

Sometimes information like this being passed around requires context. In this case, if there was a connection between Feel Flows and what Mike told an interviewer about 60th anniversary plans he had in the works, the fans who connected the two back in August were right.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 16, 2020, 01:23:48 PM
Unless a ‘final song’ can top ‘Summers Gone’,I’m just not interested. I stumbled on the 2012 C50 London version a few days ago and seeing Brian playing it smiling, missed lyrics and all, just can’t be topped.

https://youtu.be/qQigc-3xIbk



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 16, 2020, 01:37:07 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 16, 2020, 02:58:32 PM
Any theoretical "60th Anniversary" plans, real or imagined, were/are not an issue impacting the previous ongoing delays with the "Feel Flows" set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 16, 2020, 07:33:00 PM
Unless a ‘final song’ can top ‘Summers Gone’,I’m just not interested. I stumbled on the 2012 C50 London version a few days ago and seeing Brian playing it smiling, missed lyrics and all, just can’t be topped.

https://youtu.be/qQigc-3xIbk


That moment when Brian closes his eyes in sublime bliss is beautiful.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on November 16, 2020, 11:27:48 PM
Unless a ‘final song’ can top ‘Summers Gone’,I’m just not interested. I stumbled on the 2012 C50 London version a few days ago and seeing Brian playing it smiling, missed lyrics and all, just can’t be topped.

https://youtu.be/qQigc-3xIbk



Wow, I uploaded that just over 8 years ago? It was quite a trip to watch that again - thanks for reminding me!

As for FF, I hope we hear any more info shortly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 17, 2020, 12:05:20 AM
I can't see the point of the guys doing a 60th anniversary album if Brian isn't writing anymore. Al? He's never been a prolific songwriter. Mike, of course, is doing a lot of recording these days, but I doubt Brian and Al would be excited about a reunion album that is 90% Mike Love - "we did that already, it was called Summer in Paradise, and it sucks".
The only thing I would be interested in hearing from them now is if they found a rare Dennis or Carl song, and added new vocals to it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 17, 2020, 06:21:19 AM
The idea of any 60th anniversary possibilities should probably be in a separate thread, but I’m too lazy today to do that.  In any case, what I’d find enjoyable would be an album of Brian, Al, Blondie and their band doing a kind of “Party” album, kind of like the campfire scenes done in the ‘80’s.  Very informal, only semi-rehearsed.  Maybe have them each pick several songs they love that they haven’t done before,rehearse them only briefly, then just wing it.  I think of that fairly recent clip of Brian playing “This Could Be the Night” for Al.  No auto tune.  Mistakes and laughing left in.  I would love it!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 17, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
People going on about a 60th anniversary album and I’m just sitting here waiting for the release of Pleasure Island 30 years after it was announced...

Free Pleasure Island!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 17, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
Pleasure Island and the Rock & Roll album as a twofer!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: barsone on November 17, 2020, 05:52:29 PM
Unless a ‘final song’ can top ‘Summers Gone’,I’m just not interested. I stumbled on the 2012 C50 London version a few days ago and seeing Brian playing it smiling, missed lyrics and all, just can’t be topped.

https://youtu.be/qQigc-3xIbk


That moment when Brian closes his eyes in sublime bliss is beautiful.

Pretty Funky.....THANK YOU big time for the link and your description.  You NAILED it !!!    My favorite post 70's Brian song

Joel G....you are so RIGHT ON with the Brian description....What a perfect way to say goodbye to the 2020 summer and the 97 pages of FF sh*tshow.   Not sure where the parties/principals go from here as it seems Brian and Al drew a line in the sand regarding the 60 yr album offer.  Probably back to the boring Branded BB's in 2021 and for all of us wanting just one more of something before this all ends after we get FF.

Lastly thank you to Hey Jude, Jon, and Howie along with any others in the know offering input over the past five months.  Long thread....yes    frustrating thread.....yes      But I'm damn glad I read every post of every page as it will hopefully make the final product of FF offering something we all love and appreciate



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on November 18, 2020, 06:09:16 AM
People going on about a 60th anniversary album and I’m just sitting here waiting for the release of Pleasure Island 30 years after it was announced...

Free Pleasure Island!

Right on!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on November 18, 2020, 11:41:19 AM
Listened to our 1969 EP again today. I hope all this sort of material is still included in the box set - these aren’t bits that should just be on a random CE set when the box set exists.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 18, 2020, 12:21:13 PM
The only thing I would be interested in hearing from them now is if they found a rare Dennis or Carl song, and added new vocals to it.

Well we got Waves Of Love. Nice song, but it's no Free As A Bird or Real Love. Honestly, I'd rather hear an original incomplete scratch vocal from Dennis than one of his songs completed now by the others.

I just don't think that this would work too well. If they finished say I've Got A Friend - it's Dennis' work - it's not really anyone else's. It would end up being like Holy Man - without Dennis on vocals, it lacks something. (Grittiness?)

I suppose there might be 5 or 6 songs that could be completed, but would it be worth the trouble?  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 18, 2020, 07:38:14 PM
The only thing I would be interested in hearing from them now is if they found a rare Dennis or Carl song, and added new vocals to it.

Well we got Waves Of Love. Nice song, but it's no Free As A Bird or Real Love. Honestly, I'd rather hear an original incomplete scratch vocal from Dennis than one of his songs completed now by the others.

I just don't think that this would work too well. If they finished say I've Got A Friend - it's Dennis' work - it's not really anyone else's. It would end up being like Holy Man - without Dennis on vocals, it lacks something. (Grittiness?)

I suppose there might be 5 or 6 songs that could be completed, but would it be worth the trouble?  
I like Waves of Love a lot. I might be the only one. One of my favorite songs on Al's album/cd/download.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on November 19, 2020, 03:12:06 AM
Dennis' voice was definitely a key ingredient in preventing some of his more sentimental songs from becoming cloying. He was completely soulful and edgy every time he opened his mouth to sing. Like what Jim Morrison tried to do, but much more effortless and real.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on November 19, 2020, 04:13:35 AM
I also like waves of love.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aingevt on November 19, 2020, 06:09:49 AM
I love Don't Fight The Sea as well. The story of how it finally got finished was really exciting at the time. I think it would be amazing if they did something similar with "Dancin' the Night Away". They could all trade off on the leads, combine during backgrounds/chorus and wouldn't have to be in the same room! The bridge is already finished and has Carl's beautiful contribution. A guy can dream.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 19, 2020, 06:34:48 AM
I'm sure that would make Andy Paley very happy - and Joe Thomas less so!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 19, 2020, 03:08:03 PM
"Waves of Love" is a nice song. I wouldn't have minded a version with more BBs singing on it, but once Al released it himself (in no less than three different mixes, with a fourth unreleased mix being posted online at one point), I never saw it as a tragedy that the BBs didn't do it.

Read the Jason Fine Rolling Stone article from 2012 if you haven't; Brian literally bolts out of the room to avoid even having to discuss doing "Waves of Love."

"Dancin' the Night Away" is not A-level material. It's easily the worst of the three "Beach Boys" tracks from those Paley sessions. That little Carl bridge (or whatever it is) is interesting. The rest of the song is either very similar, or literally an embryonic version of "How Could We Still Be Dancin'", and that's not A-grade material either. I wouldn't mind a future BB archival set featuring that Carl bit in better sound quality, and if there are somehow some additional vocals in the vaults we haven't hear, sure, of course I'd love to hear it. But that song is not even up to the level of most of the material on TWGMTR.

If they were *going* to do another album, it sounds like there are a bunch of TWGMTR outtakes they could use. But I'm guessing a bunch of those are more Brian/Joe Thomas compositions, and we all know how Mike feels about singing on *that* stuff these days, even when he gets to add lyrics.

Talking about that and "Dancin' the Night Away" leads me back to "Feel Flows" thusly: If the band can get back on track and issue ample archival material, then *that's* where all the gold is. Not new reunion recordings. I'm not saying those couldn't be good potentially. But they *just managed* to scrape together a solid, "whoa, this is better than I thought it could be!" album back in 2012. They aren't particularly in a better place on any level now in 2020. Their voices, save Al, have deteriorated further. The inter-band politics and relationships seem to be worse than they were in 2010/2011.

One of many ways this should (and perhaps is) pitched to the band these days is that they don't even need to record new albums. They have like a dozen new albums sitting there in the vaults!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on November 20, 2020, 05:08:46 AM
Any news regarding Feel Flows?
Everything was worked out/they gave green lit to release it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 20, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
I’m hoping Feel Flows, presuming it comes out, will include studio chatter that will give insights into Carl’s producing techniques, such as how commanding he was in giving direction to singers and musicians.  We’ve seen and heard Brian giving orders, but not much on Carl and the rest of the band. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 21, 2020, 04:54:22 AM
I've never heard any Sunflower session tapes — like a lot of fans, my close awareness of the BB's sessions ends in 1968/69 with the end of the eight-track era, which, as I understand it, was as late as the guys who made the Sea of Tunes boots was able to go. The rumour I heard was that the bootleggers didn't have access to a 16-track tape machine, so there was no point them making copies of any archive 16-track tapes, with the result that all tapes made after the band switched to recording on 16-track in around 1969 were off-limits for them to pilfer. I've no idea whether that's correct, but it's certainly true that the detailed Sea Of Tunes discs pretty much grind to a halt at that point in BB history.

My point is, though, that there might not BE much in the way of session recordings for Sunflower (that's the bit I don't know, having not heard any boots of those sessions). Certainly by the time you got to the 80s and people were recording on 24-track multitrack or more, you would rarely hear much of the session even if you had the master multitrack. That's because songs were increasingly constructed ON the multitrack, instead of being the result of multiple, increasingly perfected live takes like in the Wrecking Crew era with Brian producing. We only hear all of the SMiLE and Pet Sounds sessions, for example, for a few reasons. Firstly, the Beach Boys were wealthy artists at the time and didn't mind paying for the (considerable) expense of recording everything from sessions on multitrack tape (which wasn't cheap). Many lesser (and poorer) artists would rehearse a few takes in the studio in this era to be ready to record, and only *then* roll tape to capture a good live performance. That way, you only used a few minutes of tape instead of hours (as with, say, the Heroes and Villains vocal sessions, where even the Boys can be heard complaining that they're now on Take 50 or something and they might as well spool back and record over all the earlier blown takes to save tape).

By the 80s, it would be much more generally the case that you'd record maybe a basic track for a new song of just a few minutes in duration once everyone was rehearsed for the song and ready to go, maybe with just the drummer and bassist or maybe some keys to give a shape to the song as you recorded, and then add everything else gradually as overdubs onto that same 4-5 minute section of multitrack tape. The only 'session' stuff you'd hear would be a few seconds at the start and end of each of the multiple tracks that make up that single performance. You hear this kind of stuff a little bit in some of the SOT SMiLE sessions, where an instrumental perfomance is being overdubbed vocally. Often the last thing you hear after the track ends is one of the vocalists (often Brian) saying 'OK, let's add another overdub'. That's because those words are recorded on the performance of the first set of vocal tracks to be recorded. When the tape was being recorded in the studio, they would have had the multitrack with the instrumental on it, the Boys would do a take, then Brian (say) would say 'let's do another overdub' and that fragment of speech would be captured at the end of the song. After that, they'd have recorded that next overdub — but crucially, over the *same* four minutes or whatever of multitrack tape. So the net effect is that you have a multitrack with Brian saying 'let's do another overdub' at the end... but actually, the second overdub IS already overlaid on that recording. This is different to what you'd have heard for a Today or Summer Days era recording, where if we have the whole tape of the complete session, you might hear Brian say that at the end of a song, and then you get another pass at the song where they add the second overdub a few minutes after the original recording. Bottom line — the more 'multitrackular' recording got over time (yeah, I know that isn't a word, but whatever, you know what I mean), the less likely you are to hear a complete tape of the session as it happened live in the studio.

As I said at the start, what I don't know is what the case is with Sunflower — while you'd be much less likely to hear a complete session recorded at the time of Steve Levine making BB85, for example (unless, of course, SL deliberately elected to record the complete sessions for his own archiving purposes... and I have no idea whether he did or not), I don't know what the done practice was at the time of making Sunflower at the turn of the 70s. Was it more like the Wrecking Crew era or the 1980s practice? Perhaps we'll soon find out, if this damn box eventually comes out and we hear lots of Carl-heavy studio production chatter! Or we couild find out sooner if anyone who HAS (naughtily or otherwise) heard any Sunflower session tapes cares to chip in to this thread at this point...? (He said, leaving the question hanging pregnantly in the air...)

All of which is a very long way of saying... it seems to me that you might not hear *anything* of Carl producing on the Sunflower masters, or at least, not in as complete a way as we hear Brian producing in the Wrecking Crew era. It might just be that the only things captured on the Sunflower masters are a few seconds of Carl counting in the master take, say... and maybe concluding with a 'thanks, that's enough' over the talkback when the song is finished beyond the point where the master was going to be faded out on the completed record.

But I'd love to be proved wrong. 'Cause I sure loves me some BB session recording action... and I'm sure I'm not alone...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 21, 2020, 08:00:49 AM
There are plenty of session tapes from the Sunflower era, and I've heard quite a lot of them. Some from 8-track, some from 16-track. They tended to lay down basic tracks as "live" as possible, but of course there were usually plenty of instrumental overdubs, as well as vocal overdubs. Carl's productions of his two self-compositions for the Surf's Up album, though, are another story - as he played all of the instruments on "LPR" and most of the instruments on "FF" (with the Charles Lloyd and Woody Thews contributions added later), there really isn't anything there in terms of session tape.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on November 21, 2020, 10:34:32 AM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on November 21, 2020, 10:41:20 AM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.


Thank you!!! ❤️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 21, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.


A Happy Thanksgiving indeed!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on November 21, 2020, 10:51:24 AM
 :thewilsons   :happydance   :listening   :love


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 21, 2020, 10:51:32 AM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.



Thanks Howie!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on November 21, 2020, 11:16:45 AM
That's amazing. Thanks.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on November 21, 2020, 11:21:00 AM
Many thanks Howie, I have just worn out the LIKE button

AND I do hope to wear out my F5 button awaiting any more news  ;D

Before Christmas ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 21, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
Thanks again Howie. Your keeping us informed is much appreciated.

And especially in saying no-one will be disappointed- which I take to mean that nothing was cut from the box.  ;) ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on November 21, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
The reason Sea of Tunes stops at 1968-69 is because Capitol owns those masters, and BRI owns Sunflower and on. There’s definite grey area on the Reverberation tracks. Songs like “San Miguel”, “Got to Know the Woman” and several others, began on 8-track, and were later transferred to 16 when the group obtained a 3M M-56 16-track in 1969. The Capitol songs from the same period like “Celebrate the News” and “Break Away” were completed on 8-track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: NateRuvin on November 21, 2020, 03:41:26 PM
Thanks for the update Howie! Brought us a lotta joy to see that 8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 21, 2020, 04:02:31 PM
Thats amazing..  Thanks Howie


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on November 21, 2020, 04:39:43 PM
The board breathes a collective sigh of relief!!!  Thanks Howie!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 21, 2020, 05:50:30 PM
The reason Sea of Tunes stops at 1968-69 is because Capitol owns those masters, and BRI owns Sunflower and on. There’s definite grey area on the Reverberation tracks. Songs like “San Miguel”, “Got to Know the Woman” and several others, began on 8-track, and were later transferred to 16 when the group obtained a 3M M-56 16-track in 1969. The Capitol songs from the same period like “Celebrate the News” and “Break Away” were completed on 8-track.

This is very interesting, thanks for that insight.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 21, 2020, 06:00:32 PM
I've never heard any Sunflower session tapes — like a lot of fans, my close awareness of the BB's sessions ends in 1968/69 with the end of the eight-track era, which, as I understand it, was as late as the guys who made the Sea of Tunes boots was able to go. The rumour I heard was that the bootleggers didn't have access to a 16-track tape machine, so there was no point them making copies of any archive 16-track tapes, with the result that all tapes made after the band switched to recording on 16-track in around 1969 were off-limits for them to pilfer. I've no idea whether that's correct, but it's certainly true that the detailed Sea Of Tunes discs pretty much grind to a halt at that point in BB history.



It would be fascinating to hear a detailed rundown of how the SOT boots came to be. I mean, it's almost worthy of a documentary. There must be some fascinating tidbits to tell.

Was it someone entrusted to the vaults who snuck an early DAT recorder in, for the sole purpose of colluding with bootleg distributors to sell them the material, for the bootleg companies to then press to CD and sell to indie music stores?

The sheer quantity and quality is astounding, and honestly it seems like it was the heist of the century from a bootleg perspective. While the morality of how it went down is certainly hard to defend, from purely a music historical perspective it was a tremendously important and wonderful thing for that music to have been freed. I'd argue it might have help further the band's legend in terms of fans learning the band was underrated and worthy of deeper discoveries by fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 21, 2020, 06:48:10 PM
I'd love to see a documentary of SOT, too.  But... we're not going to get that until the statute of limitations runs out, or whoever did it passes away.  (Or until they get nabbed by the authorities and then can tell their tale.)

I'm still waiting for the ultra complete SOT, where we get everything, not the cut up sessions we got!

Of course, it'd be even better if the Beach Boys would officially release every single piece of session tape they have!  And release it in multi-track format, all 2, 4, 8, or 16 tracks so that we can listen to each track separately if we want.

And, of course, thank you Howie for letting us know that "Feel Flows" is still on track.  I just wish we had a release date for it!!! 


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Empire Of Love on November 21, 2020, 09:45:30 PM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.


Thank you for the update!

EoL


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hapman on November 21, 2020, 09:49:58 PM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 21, 2020, 10:09:25 PM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?

Looks like nothing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mikeyj on November 21, 2020, 10:42:09 PM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?

Looks like nothing

Well, I don't know about nothing. I'm sure it's not an official release if that's what you mean but it still seems interesting enough to me. You can play 30 second previews of the tracks and some of it I have never heard before.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 12:09:27 AM
It's surely got to be something related to FF. I mean, there are incomplete tracks on there with parts missing, and session chatter on some tracks... you couldn't generate those without access to the multitracks, I would have thought. It's not just a Spleeter job either... the tracks sound smoother than that, and also there are some where you have the backing track AND backing vocals, but no lead. That would be hard to create convincingly in Spleeter, it seems to me. But of course, I could be wrong...

Curious about what the weird-sounding Surf's Up 'Pt I' track is, too (Track 53). It sounds like Brian's December 66 lead from the piano-only session dubbed over an instrumental track that I'm not familiar with. It's not the long-lost Surf's Up part two, though, as the title and a quick listen to the preview make clear (it's pretty clearly the first part of the song).

An attempted re-record of the part I backing track, so that Brian's 66 lead could be used in 1971? Wasn't there talk that they'd tried something like that?

I've forgotten more than I ever knew about this (if that even makes sense), but I seem to recall that:

The band wanted to use the 1966 Part I instrumental backing with Brian's separately recorded vocal from the December-only piano session. They tried to fly it in, but 1970s tech being what it was, they couldn't get the result to fit well. So... wasn't it said sometime that they tried to re-record the backing track TO the vocal, as that was the only way they could get it to fit? But couldn't make that sound decent either, so... they tried to get Brian to re-sing his Part I vocal over the 1966 Part I Wrecking Crew backing. And then Brian wouldn't do that EITHER... so they got Carl to do it. And that's the Surf's Up version we got to hear on the album.

So this might be the backing track they tried to re-record to the vocal. Maybe. Or maybe I've got this totally scrambled. Somebody throw me a bone here...?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 22, 2020, 02:06:52 AM


There is no way that is not connected to the official release.
And I think you are right regarding track 53, Matt.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 22, 2020, 02:08:40 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 22, 2020, 02:09:43 AM
Since when is Tony Asher credited on Loop de Loop?  Mistake or have I been missing Tony's connection to that ditty for all these years?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 02:53:33 AM
What's missing? I got so confused through the course of this labyrinthine, up-and-down thread, that I honestly can't remember what was supposed to be on this set that now seems, er... NOT to be on it.

*IF* this thing IS Feel Flows, of course. Or part of it. Which... it might not be...

Ah, business as usual at Beach Boys Central...!    :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on November 22, 2020, 02:55:24 AM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.



Amazing  :spin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 22, 2020, 02:59:43 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 04:24:41 AM
Fair point. I'm just thinking... if I was managing the launch of this thing, I might release news of just a few bits of it at a time. So might this just be *some* of the content... with more to come?

Sadly, I have no idea if this is the case or not; I'm just speculating. But certainly there is no mention of the original albums in this playlist — the tracks excerpted here that *are* from the original Sunflower and Surf's Up albums are different in some way to the standard album mixes. So that's at least one disc's worth of set that seems to be missing from this, er... whatever it is on-line (mindful of the fact that both albums fitted on one CD back in the 2000 reissues).

Not that I would be disappointed if this was 'it', mind. The point is: to a long-standing fan like me, if this IS the whole of FF, I'm already in; it's worth the price of admission already. But if they announce another couple of discs' worth next week, say, with even more goodies on it, communities like this and the 'other place' are going to go through the roof. They're sure to sell a million units in... er... whenever it is it comes out.

Well, OK... not a million. You know what I mean. There won't be a fan who won't want it, is what I'm trying to say. A staggered announcement might be the launch plan.

Having said that, the last few copyright releases just seemed to *appear* in December with no launch or marketing plan at all... so why should this one be any different?   :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Radfahrer on November 22, 2020, 04:40:31 AM
Have you listened to some of those samples? Oh boy, oh boy...  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on November 22, 2020, 04:57:03 AM
Wait what? Whereabouts can I find these samples? Thanks.

Never mind, FOUND THEM! (Edit).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on November 22, 2020, 05:34:44 AM
WOW (samples)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 05:58:07 AM
Isn't it a great feeling when a thread like this, which has run into the sands of circular unfounded speculation for months, suddenly starts moving again with some REAL information on progress?    ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: NateRuvin on November 22, 2020, 07:14:42 AM
WOWWW those samples get me excited!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on November 22, 2020, 07:18:47 AM
What a nice surprise on this gloomy Sunday morning!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 22, 2020, 07:19:42 AM
The label listed is Capitol, and it contains stuff we've not heard before. So whatever it is, it's clearly official in some capacity.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 22, 2020, 07:37:38 AM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?


Whatever it is, it sounds great!




Since when is Tony Asher credited on Loop de Loop?  Mistake or have I been missing Tony's connection to that ditty for all these years?


Wasn't Al credited on this version (as opposed to "Sail Plane Song")?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on November 22, 2020, 07:46:12 AM
:o :o :o Thank you hapman for posting that!

Really flipping for some reason over the sample for the “Back Home” piano demo (track 25)… man, Al has a great voice. And have we ever heard Al sing as low as on track 42?

Also, very interesting to hear the sample of “Sweet And Bitter,” much more stripped back than the version we’ve heard before. In the Q & A that Mark and Alan did with the Beach Boys Discord channel a couple years back, Alan mentioned that Don Goldberg had ended up with the only tapes for “SaB” containing Mike’s lead on them, so BRI must have teamed up with Don to get that together for this set. (Also, if memory serves me, didn’t Terry Jacks end up with some of the tapes for the Beach Boys’ “Season in the Sun”? Wonder if he was of any help for this set as well.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 07:46:21 AM
My Solution sounds great!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 07:48:05 AM
Track #59, the 'Til I Die piano demo. :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 07:57:14 AM
You Never Give Me Your Money!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 22, 2020, 07:57:42 AM
All the samples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 08:01:45 AM
Looks like I have something to write for my next column.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 08:11:22 AM
Thanks Elora!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on November 22, 2020, 08:13:30 AM
Happy to hear the great news from Howie.

I wonder if this allmusic entry (great find, hapman!) is for what is/would have been the copyright dump?

Edit: link added for convenience:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on November 22, 2020, 08:26:12 AM




BTW, the "Surf's Up pt.1" track is claimed as "(1971 Remake Track With Brian Wilson vocals)"





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 22, 2020, 08:44:49 AM
Happy to hear the great news from Howie.

I wonder if this allmusic entry (great find, hapman!) is for what is/would have been the copyright dump?

Edit: link added for convenience:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792

Check the last page in the thread


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on November 22, 2020, 09:22:18 AM
Great news FF is finally happening .....but it looks a little meagre on the new Dennis music, does it not?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 22, 2020, 09:52:09 AM
Dammit why do I have to work today 😥


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 22, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?

Looks like nothing

Well, I don't know about nothing. I'm sure it's not an official release if that's what you mean but it still seems interesting enough to me. You can play 30 second previews of the tracks and some of it I have never heard before.

Those samples were not there when I clicked on it

That is definitely something


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Menace Wilson on November 22, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
Okay, so what is this (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792) supposed to be?

Holy cow those samples just blew my mind.  Beyond excited.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on November 22, 2020, 10:19:33 AM
I know I should be listening to the samples, but God, I feel like I’d be cheating not waiting for the full box to come out, so I think I’m going to wait.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on November 22, 2020, 10:53:09 AM
... magic: isolated backing vocals for Feel Flows track -- absolutely beautiful -!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: kwebb on November 22, 2020, 10:53:38 AM
Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on November 22, 2020, 10:57:44 AM
Listening to the samples now -- pure bliss!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ninten on November 22, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
What a great way to start the day! Big Sur sounding absolutely beautiful. Can't wait for the box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on November 22, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
Another crazy thing about this is that 64 tracks is a lot and it probably isn't even all of them. For example, the San Miguel track is just instrumental but we definitely heard one with the vocals when Mark previewed it on that Youtube video.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lake Erie Surfer on November 22, 2020, 11:29:41 AM
Revelatory and absolutely breathtaking! Even the Bruce material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Doobidoo on November 22, 2020, 11:43:55 AM
There is so many feelings in my body! I'm so exited, it's much better than I ever would dream of!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 22, 2020, 11:46:24 AM
So I'm guessing this is definitely the track listing?  Odd that allmusic.com has it.  "Carry Me Home" remains unreleased but in fairness that one didn't get recorded until Blondie and Ricky joined the team.  The sound samples sound great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 22, 2020, 11:48:22 AM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on November 22, 2020, 11:59:13 AM
I see it's already got two five-star ratings at Allmusic, so obviously Howie is right and this sh*t is the bomb.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 22, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
All the samples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q

WOW. Thanks so much. Holy crap. That instrumental snippet of long promised road... damn


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on November 22, 2020, 12:26:37 PM
FEEL FLOWS is alive, well, and thriving.
No one will be disappointed.


Great news, Howie!
Thank you so much, and also Alan, Mark and everybody who worked to make this happen!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
Great news FF is finally happening .....but it looks a little meagre on the new Dennis music, does it not?

Well, we don't know yet... this might not be the full track listing as far as the as-yet unreleased stuff goes. Let's wait a bit longer and see...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 22, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?

That’s my prediction but either way I’m happy


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 22, 2020, 12:50:04 PM
The 1971 Brian Lead on Surf's Up is very interesting. I hope it is indeed a "new" lead vocal from him from that era. The backing track of A Day In The Life(of A Tree), going from the small clip, sounds..."Godly". That's the only way I can describe it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 01:01:41 PM
It sounds like the December 66 vocal from the piano version to me, but over a backing track we haven't heard before...? I thought the story was that Brian refused to sing ANY new leads for Surf's Up in 1971, and only contributed at all right at the end, when the group were adding vocals to the 'a children's song' tag in the studio in his house. Wasn't the story that he suddenly pounded downstairs from his bedroom and added his contribution in his bathrobe?

Who knows if that's true. I think that was how Jack Rieley told it... and he was allegedly fond of journalistically enhancing a good anecdote...!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 22, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 01:07:02 PM
Right - that's what I meant in my earlier post about the new backing track being performed to fit the existing vocal, rather than the more usual way of doing it the other way around...!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 22, 2020, 01:07:20 PM
The question now is, is it a vintage job, or a recent edit on a newly discovered backing track?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on November 22, 2020, 01:15:26 PM
Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?

That’s my prediction but either way I’m happy

Yes, that's what makes the most sense. I think some of the unheard stuff was still "available" on that Brother Rarities CD somebody found (or elsewhere), so it could have gotten released otherwise.

I wonder how curated those samples are? Some of them are perfectly tantalizing yet reasonably satisfying (end at decent spots). And they once again prove how mere seconds of isolated Beach Boys background vocals are life-affirming.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 22, 2020, 01:15:50 PM
It needs to be said that whoever brokered this piece accord between the various BBs parties to finally make this happen deserves a Nobel peace prize in pop music. Screw all of this casino awards BS; a new award category needs to be given to the unsung hero(s) of this set, including Howie, Jon, and who knows who else. That will probably never happen most likely in any official capacity, but it's nevertheless well deserved.

People behind the scenes somehow really made a positive difference for music history of the world.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 22, 2020, 01:28:52 PM
Another crazy thing about this is that 64 tracks is a lot and it probably isn't even all of them. For example, the San Miguel track is just instrumental but we definitely heard one with the vocals when Mark previewed it on that Youtube video.


You're right! And Fred Vail's version of "All for the Love of a Girl" isn't here either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on November 22, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
Like I keep saying... it's possible this isn't the full boxed set track listing. I wouldn't assume anything is necessarily definitely missing in action yet. Elsewhere, the speculation is that these are only 1970-recorded tracks... there may still be details of the 1971-recorded (and maybe even 1972-recorded) material to come.

Which... would be nice. Obviously.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 22, 2020, 01:55:18 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doinnothin on November 22, 2020, 01:57:01 PM
We're such a lucky fanbase. What a joy to even get a taste of what's headed our way. Thank you to all involved!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 22, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
Like I keep saying... it's possible this isn't the full boxed set track listing. I wouldn't assume anything is necessarily definitely missing in action yet. Elsewhere, the speculation is that these are only 1970-recorded tracks... there may still be details of the 1971-recorded (and maybe even 1972-recorded) material to come.

Which... would be nice. Obviously.

I hope so


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on November 22, 2020, 02:23:42 PM
The live Riot In Cell Block #9 sounds like the '70 Big Sur Folk Festival version (Mike's intro is the same) but in far superior sound quality than circulating recordings ... fingers crossed for the full show without audio drop outs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 22, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
It needs to be said that whoever brokered this piece accord between the various BBs parties to finally make this happen deserves a Nobel peace prize in pop music. Screw all of this casino awards BS; a new award category needs to be given to the unsung hero(s) of this set, including Howie, Jon, and who knows who else. That will probably never happen most likely in any official capacity, but it's nevertheless well deserved.

People behind the scenes somehow really made a positive difference for music history of the world.


I agree


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 22, 2020, 03:10:59 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 22, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet. 
Feel Flows is expected to be 5 discs with a lot more material on it than this.  Sounds like the concert that will be included Al alluded to is from the Big Sur Folk Festival.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 03:27:29 PM
Perhaps the samples are from a two-disc version of the larger box, for those with lower budgets?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 22, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet.  
This is almost certainly a separate release to the 5 disc set we were initially told about... considering:

1) It's not called Feel Flows (confirmed title of the box set)
2) We were told Feel Flows would feature a full concert recording (definitely the Big Sur concert, only Riot is included here, and Aren't You Glad was released on Sunshine Tomorrow)
3) There is only one Dennis track included out of the 25 or so minutes that Howie mentioned
4) This is only 64 tracks, ~180 minutes of audio. This can fit on 3 CDs; surely they weren't planning on spreading it out to 5 CDs with about 13 tracks on each disc.

My theory is that this is a digital only release that's being released for two reasons:

-to preserve copyright for the 1970 tracks that are included
-to act as a teaser to a bigger box set (hopefully!!!) as almost all of this 1969-1971 material does not need to be released in 2020 for legal reasons.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 22, 2020, 03:31:10 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet. 
Feel Flows is expected to be 5 discs with a lot more material on it than this.  Sounds like the concert that will be included Al alluded to is from the Big Sur Folk Festival.

Yeah exactly.

I dont see this being the "feel flows" box set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 22, 2020, 04:25:51 PM
I listen to my music on a Sony boombox stereo in my bedroom, whose acoustics produce a virtual surround effect on some songs, including those from Sunflower and Surf's Up, so this box will be a wonderful listen for me when it emerges.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 22, 2020, 06:43:03 PM
The fact that the release date on this is listed as last Monday suggests this isn't a copyright dump that we'll be able to buy. More likely, it's a streaming-only album that was made available for minutes then taken down -- not unlike what (is believed to have) happened earlier this year with the Beatles 1969 Recordings Spotify album that someone stumbled upon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/)

I'd happily plunk down money to buy it, but I agree that it's more likely a copyright placeholder until Feel Flows is finally released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on November 22, 2020, 06:54:57 PM
MIND (BODY AND SOUL) OFFICIALY BLOWN  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ninten on November 22, 2020, 07:28:59 PM
Another reason this probably isn't Feel Flows--doesn't seem to include I'm Going Your Way, which was part of that pre-release with 3 songs last year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ninten on November 22, 2020, 07:29:28 PM
[Duplicate post]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: patsy6 on November 22, 2020, 07:31:07 PM
Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on November 22, 2020, 07:48:28 PM
Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?

That’s my prediction but either way I’m happy

I agree that this makes the most sense but wouldn’t it make more sense to release the bare minimum like they did last year so as not to spill out too much? And even if this is like scottythered suggested,

 
The fact that the release date on this is listed as last Monday suggests this isn't a copyright dump that we'll be able to buy. More likely, it's a streaming-only album that was made available for minutes then taken down -- not unlike what (is believed to have) happened earlier this year with the Beatles 1969 Recordings Spotify album that someone stumbled upon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/)

I'd happily plunk down money to buy it, but I agree that it's more likely a copyright placeholder until Feel Flows is finally released.

... which I think is more likely, they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds? And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up. The only thing that would make a little bit of sense is if they were able to grab only You Never Give Me Your Money, since it’s only 40 seconds long.

Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.

Awesome!! Hopefully this date stays put.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 22, 2020, 08:06:59 PM
Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.
whoa


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on November 22, 2020, 08:12:34 PM
Billy's show:
https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/5355969761095940


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: louielouie on November 22, 2020, 08:23:37 PM
This is great news, the best moment of this dark 11 months so far. Stuff like the background vocal arrangement of This Whole World, Feel Flows or Long promised road are otherworldly, really amazing. :) :


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 22, 2020, 08:35:36 PM
... they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds?

Depends on which copyright lawyer you ask. I'm beginning to think that lawyers for UMG et al have decided that quiet digital/streaming releases for all of a few seconds qualify for copyright extension; it's just that no one's taken them to court to challenge it. Certainly seems like less of a hassle for the record companies than pressing up 100-500 copies and selling them, like with Dylan.

And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up.

Answered here: https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480 (https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 22, 2020, 09:07:01 PM
Billy's show:
https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/5355969761095940

Unrelated to FF, but what a shame about Al losing the video from the Postcards show he had professionally filmed. I wonder what the story is with that. He sounded really quite sad about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 22, 2020, 09:29:50 PM
Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.

Ugh.  6+ months?!  Say it ain't so.   That's disappointing but if there's anyone is a position to know and be willing to talk, Al would be the guy. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 22, 2020, 09:38:26 PM
Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.

Ugh.  6+ months?!  Say it ain't so.   That's disappointing but if there's anyone is a position to know and be willing to talk, Al would be the guy. 


I want to celebrate and be only happy about Al's words, but I suppose I won't feel confident that it's truly coming out intact, and I won't be able to feel there's zero chance of it potentially still being compromised in one way or another until there's a formal press release with track listing released. Just trying to be realistic here.

As proven already with the way this it has been treated like a yo-yo, the only way the release is truly secure and not able to be messed with anymore is once it's actually out.  The longer the period of gestation before it comes out, the more it could still maybe be used as a bargaining chip by a certain someone. If it was held up before, it could theoretically be held up or messed with again, but hopefully that won't be the case, and I'll just try to be positive from here on out, but understandably I'm being a bit cautious in my glee. Most certainly hearing these samples is very tantalizing.

Hopefully no more shenanigans will happen before then, and I also wonder why they are waiting such a long time, unless they think that it's going to sell better as a "summer" product or are hoping to tie it in with some sort of reunion for promotional reasons. I think whatever shenanigans have happened already is why the project missed the opportunity to be released during this holiday season. Shades of the Pet Sounds Sessions box set.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 22, 2020, 10:06:59 PM
Next year is the 60th anniversary of the band; I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the reason why


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on November 22, 2020, 10:57:36 PM

Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.


What?? I was expecting the Feel Flows box last February!

But seriously, I'm just grateful that it's happening. Thanks to all involved, both back in 1969, 70, & 71 and today, a big fifty years later.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on November 22, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Just can't wait to hear a quality mix of San Miguel.. Really a standout track I believe that faced the chop too soon. Would've fit nicely on Sunflower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on November 23, 2020, 02:08:58 AM
We're such a lucky fanbase. What a joy to even get a taste of what's headed our way. Thank you to all involved!

I love what I am hearing. Especially the new mixes of released songs sans lead vocals. Like Bruce’s Deirdre and Tears in the Morning. Just delightful and totally enjoyable without the leads. And you really can appreciate the superb musical arrangements that helped make these songs so magical!

This box is going to be fantastic!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on November 23, 2020, 02:48:41 AM
Looks like Christmas is sorted.

Now all we need is to take the Solution.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 23, 2020, 06:00:52 AM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet.  
This is almost certainly a separate release to the 5 disc set we were initially told about... considering:

1) It's not called Feel Flows (confirmed title of the box set)
2) We were told Feel Flows would feature a full concert recording (definitely the Big Sur concert, only Riot is included here, and Aren't You Glad was released on Sunshine Tomorrow)
3) There is only one Dennis track included out of the 25 or so minutes that Howie mentioned
4) This is only 64 tracks, ~180 minutes of audio. This can fit on 3 CDs; surely they weren't planning on spreading it out to 5 CDs with about 13 tracks on each disc.

My theory is that this is a digital only release that's being released for two reasons:

-to preserve copyright for the 1970 tracks that are included
-to act as a teaser to a bigger box set (hopefully!!!) as almost all of this 1969-1971 material does not need to be released in 2020 for legal reasons.

All things certainly possible.  However it seems doubtful that in addition to this they have 5 extra discs of other material that is somehow better than what we have here, although I would be gleeful to be proven wrong.  It's not entirely clear exactly what this release is in the first place or why Allmusic.com has this listing (as well as sound samples).  All of this endless speculation on here has become exhausting; I'd just like to hear a straight answer on what exactly 1970 Release is supposed to be. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on November 23, 2020, 06:09:52 AM
I'm normally not a begging man, but I could really do with Mr Edelson showing up and confirming whether this is a "1969 Recordings" situation here. If so, I would like to say that the Rolling Stone's management are officially pure evil for normalising this practise.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 23, 2020, 06:20:45 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 23, 2020, 06:43:29 AM
Rolling Stones 1969 Unreleased TV Radio Live Performances: https://www.allmusic.com/album/-1969-unreleased-tv-radio-concert-performances-mw0003367730


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on November 23, 2020, 07:40:42 AM
Do we know when this digital download will be available for purchase?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 23, 2020, 08:20:44 AM
Near identical thing for George Harrison from a couple of weeks beforehand, which isn't promising: https://www.allmusic.com/album/-1970--mw0003450793

And also a 1969 sessions album, incorrectly tagged as a single: https://www.allmusic.com/album/1969-sessions-mw0003346157 (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1969-sessions-mw0003346157)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2020, 08:22:15 AM
Do we know when this digital download will be available for purchase?

Probably when the physical copy goes on sale


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on November 23, 2020, 09:00:26 AM
The Sunflower-Holland period is one of my favorites, so I'm all hyped for any CE dumps that get released.

Near identical thing for George Harrison from a couple of weeks beforehand, which isn't promising: https://www.allmusic.com/album/-1970--mw0003450793

If this would get an actual release... WOW :o :o :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 23, 2020, 09:10:27 AM
May or June 2021 makes sense.  If this box is all it's supposed to be, they will want to have a bit of a promotional push behind it like they did for The Smile Sessions.  That means magazine covers and interviews.  I wouldn't rule out a little 1970 copyright dump release next month like we got last year for perhaps a handful of box set leftovers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on November 23, 2020, 09:24:04 AM
Guess I have even more to write about for my next Suburban column.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on November 23, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
Do we know when this digital download will be available for purchase?

Probably when the physical copy goes on sale

Since most of those tracks with the samples were recorded in 1970, I assumed that they were going to be the Copyright digital dump at the end of the year.  Maybe I am wrong, but I was hoping we would get those tracks digitally sometime over the next month.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 23, 2020, 10:52:08 AM




BTW, the "Surf's Up pt.1" track is claimed as "(1971 Remake Track With Brian Wilson vocals)"








Yeah, sounds like that. The moog seems to take a big part of the backing track


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2020, 11:10:46 AM
Do we know when this digital download will be available for purchase?

Probably when the physical copy goes on sale

Since most of those tracks with the samples were recorded in 1970, I assumed that they were going to be the Copyright digital dump at the end of the year.  Maybe I am wrong, but I was hoping we would get those tracks digitally sometime over the next month.


Ahhh I misunderstood. Yeah the copyright extension probably will be next month unless it is decided “releasing it “ temporarily counted. Thought you meant the digital version of the full set lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on November 23, 2020, 12:21:26 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 23, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Hal Blaine was hired for the session, so it's at least partially live drums.  While they were using the Rhythm King as a drum machine for several tracks, (Til I Die, HELP, Lady, etc) I think this is just an example of live drumming sounding very mechanical.  But I haven't heard the session tape, so C-man will know for sure.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 23, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet. 
Feel Flows is expected to be 5 discs with a lot more material on it than this.  Sounds like the concert that will be included Al alluded to is from the Big Sur Folk Festival.

That was my first guess when I first heard Al talk about it (self-congratulatory smile on face)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on November 23, 2020, 12:42:25 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Hal Blaine was hired for the session, so it's at least partially live drums.  While they were using the Rhythm King as a drum machine for several tracks, (Til I Die, HELP, Lady, etc) I think this is just an example of live drumming sounding very mechanical.  But I haven't heard the session tape, so C-man will know for sure.

Thanks for the reply! Certainly if anyone would be capable of being that metronomic, it'd be Hal.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on November 23, 2020, 12:54:30 PM
Would be great if Howie or somebody in the know could tell us what the Allmusic release actually is

It's most likely the projected tracklist for Feel Flows as it's highly doubtful that this is a separate project.  Although that would be pretty sweet. 
Feel Flows is expected to be 5 discs with a lot more material on it than this.  Sounds like the concert that will be included Al alluded to is from the Big Sur Folk Festival.

That was my first guess when I first heard Al talk about it (self-congratulatory smile on face)


Bug Sur sure is a great show, there has for many years a boot doing the rounds of 50/50 soundboard & audience recording (in not the greatest quality)- Be great to have it in all its glory, 'Aren't You Glad' really cooks


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 23, 2020, 01:05:56 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on November 23, 2020, 02:31:19 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 23, 2020, 02:40:11 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I find it hard to believe everything from the Sunflower/Surfs up era has been booted but we shall see


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 23, 2020, 02:52:52 PM
Near identical thing for George Harrison from a couple of weeks beforehand, which isn't promising: https://www.allmusic.com/album/-1970--mw0003450793

And also a 1969 sessions album, incorrectly tagged as a single: https://www.allmusic.com/album/1969-sessions-mw0003346157 (https://www.allmusic.com/album/1969-sessions-mw0003346157)

Wow, so this is definitely a thing then.  I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these tracks on the Beach Boys "1970 Release" will pop up on Feel Flows though.  Oddly enough according to allmusic.com this thing was "released" on 11/16.  I'm not seeing it anywhere though to listen to. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on November 23, 2020, 02:54:38 PM
... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 23, 2020, 02:59:59 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?
There's another possibility: The vast majority of the beach boys' recordings in 1969-1971 are well documented and have already been heard. The band released what they felt was the best stuff from this era on Sunflower and Surf's Up, then again on various albums throughout the 70s, then even more so on box sets and compilations throughout the years. Think about how much stuff from this era was later released or bootlegged. HELP, Games Two Can Play, I Just Got My Pay, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, San Miguel, My Solution, Big Sur, Where is She, Loop de Loop, Good Time, When Girls Get Together, Seasons in the Sun, Back Home (various versions), Sweet and Bitter, Big Sur, 4th of July, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, Barbara, and I still probably haven't named them all. This isn't even considering anything that was released at the time. Even then, there are other things here that some of us have heard, like Happy Birthday Brian and Til I Die demo, but that have not been widely bootlegged. I highly doubt there are any huge surprises waiting for us like there were on the 1968 sets. The Friends / 2020 era wasn't really mined like the Sunflower / Surf's Up era was, probably because the songs from that period that showed up on the 2018 releases were mostly unfinished. I also don't see the purpose of this release if they are going to need yet another pre-Feel Flows digital EP for other completely unheard and unknown songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on November 23, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

Ding ding ding. That’s making the most sense to me right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 23, 2020, 03:23:54 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?
There's another possibility: The vast majority of the beach boys' recordings in 1969-1971 are well documented and have already been heard. The band released what they felt was the best stuff from this era on Sunflower and Surf's Up, then again on various albums throughout the 70s, then even more so on box sets and compilations throughout the years. Think about how much stuff from this era was later released or bootlegged. HELP, Games Two Can Play, I Just Got My Pay, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, San Miguel, My Solution, Big Sur, Where is She, Loop de Loop, Good Time, When Girls Get Together, Seasons in the Sun, Back Home (various versions), Sweet and Bitter, Big Sur, 4th of July, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, Barbara, and I still probably haven't named them all. This isn't even considering anything that was released at the time. Even then, there are other things here that some of us have heard, like Happy Birthday Brian and Til I Die demo, but that have not been widely bootlegged. I highly doubt there are any huge surprises waiting for us like there were on the 1968 sets. The Friends / 2020 era wasn't really mined like the Sunflower / Surf's Up era was, probably because the songs from that period that showed up on the 2018 releases were mostly unfinished. I also don't see the purpose of this release if they are going to need yet another pre-Feel Flows digital EP for other completely unheard and unknown songs.

Not wanting to create a fight here, but I'd say you've merely described in detail my no.1 above, which I described in brief.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 23, 2020, 03:25:46 PM
... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

Ding ding ding. That’s making the most sense to me right now.
I've said this elsewhere, but why would they put in effort to include a ton of alternates of released songs from both albums, plus material from 1969 and 1971? Realistically, they only needed to upload 2-3 of these (or maybe 4) in order to protect the copyright.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 23, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?
There's another possibility: The vast majority of the beach boys' recordings in 1969-1971 are well documented and have already been heard. The band released what they felt was the best stuff from this era on Sunflower and Surf's Up, then again on various albums throughout the 70s, then even more so on box sets and compilations throughout the years. Think about how much stuff from this era was later released or bootlegged. HELP, Games Two Can Play, I Just Got My Pay, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, San Miguel, My Solution, Big Sur, Where is She, Loop de Loop, Good Time, When Girls Get Together, Seasons in the Sun, Back Home (various versions), Sweet and Bitter, Big Sur, 4th of July, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, Barbara, and I still probably haven't named them all. This isn't even considering anything that was released at the time. Even then, there are other things here that some of us have heard, like Happy Birthday Brian and Til I Die demo, but that have not been widely bootlegged. I highly doubt there are any huge surprises waiting for us like there were on the 1968 sets. The Friends / 2020 era wasn't really mined like the Sunflower / Surf's Up era was, probably because the songs from that period that showed up on the 2018 releases were mostly unfinished. I also don't see the purpose of this release if they are going to need yet another pre-Feel Flows digital EP for other completely unheard and unknown songs.

Not wanting to create a fight here, but I'd say you've merely described in detail my no.1 above, which I described in brief.
Oh perfect, I must've misread. I think that has to be the case - surely if they had found unheard tracks from 1970, they would've been included here, as all the significant unreleased 1970 tracks are included as completed versions (Big Sur, My Solution, Seasons in the Sun).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 23, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

Yeah, it's Hal Blaine on drums and Gene Estes playing a shaker.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on November 23, 2020, 05:27:36 PM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

Yeah, I see your point. Drum machine technology wasn't yet making such realistic-sounding snare sounds, for instance.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on November 23, 2020, 05:32:17 PM
One thing that is interesting about this 1970 release (samples) is that the only song I have not previously heard here is You Never Give Me Your Money. There is no other "outtake" here which has remained out of public hearing.

There are 2 possibilities:

1. The tapes from this year (1970) have been mined/leaked to such an extent that there is not a single song that we didn't know about still in the archives.

2. There will still have to be a small copyright dump prior to Christmas to protect a few other things.

Any thoughts?
As a rebuff to no. 2 I have not heard much of these outtakes. Yeah I've heard the usual, but these mixes will no doubt sound much better. LOVE the alt outtake don't go near the water.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 23, 2020, 05:40:45 PM
I noticed that the sound clip of Sweet and Bitter sounded quite a bit different to the version we've all heard.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 23, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Is this new timeline setting up a Beach Boys vs Beatles battle again? Feel Flows box versus revised Let it Be film?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on November 23, 2020, 07:57:47 PM
Warning: this is the first of two wall-of-text posts incoming.

The allmusic link to 1970 Release doesn't work for me anymore, as it just redirects somewhere else, but the album is still listed in their discography on the site. Anyone else have this problem? https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792

If so, here's the complete list of songs, with proper titles as provided by Elora (presumably gathered from YouTube's auto-generated titles, with some errors and gaps corrected by me where able. The bolded parts are my guesses where no official title could be determined).

Good Time (2019 Mix) 2:56
Carnival (Over the Waves) - Sobra Las Olas 1:34
Susie Cincinnati (2019 Mix) 3:02
I Just Got My Pay (2019 Mix) 2:43
This Whole World (Alternate Ending) 1:41
Add Some Music To Your Day (Alternate Version) 3:27
Our Sweet Love (String Section) 1:00
Slip On Through (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 2:48
This Whole World (Long Version & Backing Vocals Mix) 3:11
Add Some Music To Your Day (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 4:35
Deirdre (Backing Track) 3:35
It's About Time (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 2:53
Tears in the Morning (Track & Backing Vocals) 4:13
All I Wanna Do (Session Intro & Backing Vocals) 3:46
Forever (Sessions Highlights) 3:37
Forever (Track & Backing Vocals) 2:59
Our Sweet Love (Track & Backing Vocals) 2:39
At My Window (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 2:51
Cool, Cool Water (Alternate Version) 6:26
Loop De Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane) (Backing Track) 2:49
San Miguel (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 2:59 [also has brief session intro]
Good Time (Session Intro, Track & Backing Vocals) 4:27
When Girls Get Together (Backing Track) 1:51
Susie Cincinnati (Basic Session Highlights) 3:04
Back Home (Demo) 2:23
Slip On Through (Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro) 3:25
This Whole World (Backing Vocals Section) 1:05
Add Some Music to Your Day (2019 A Capella) 3:30
Got to Know the Woman (A Capella) 2:55
All I Wanna Do (A Capella) 2:58
Forever (2019 A Capella Mix) 2:52
Sunflower Promo 1:00
Student Demonstration Time 4:02 [presumably a new mix?]
'Til I Die 2:38 [also a new mix?]
Big Sur 2:36
Seasons in the Sun (2019 Mix) 3:30
Sound of Free (1970 Single Mix, 2019 Master) 2:22
Sweet and Bitter (2019 Mix) 2:33
My Solution 3:44
H.E.L.P. Is on the Way (2019 Mix) 2:31
You Never Give Me Your Money 0:40
Don't Go Near the Water (Alternate Version) 2:42
Surf's Up Promo 1:02
Good Time 0:19 [seemingly a "Backing Vocals Section"]
Don't Go Near the Water (Track & Backing Vocals Mix) 3:41
Long Promised Road (Track & Background Vocal Mix) 3:40
Take a Load Off Your Feet (Alternate Vocals Mix) 2:29
Disney Girls (1957) 4:17 [seemingly a "Track & Backing Vocals" mix, but no vocals heard in the preview]
Student Demonstration Time (Track & Backing Vocals) 3:46
Feel Flows (Track & Backing Vocals) 5:02
Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) (Session Intro & Alternate Mix) 2:43
A Day in the Life of a Tree (Track & Backing Vocals) 2:54
Surf's Up, Pt.1 (1971 Remake Track with 1966 Brian Vocal) 1:41
Surf's Up (Brian Wilson Lead Vocal 2019 Mix) 4:08
Feel Flows (Backing Vocals Excerpt) 0:35
Disney Girls 0:36 [seemingly a "Backing Vocals Excerpt"]
Medley: All of My Love/Ecology 5:06
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows 2:47
'Til I Die (Piano Demo) 1:56
Riot in Cell Block #9 (Live/1970) 3:31 [from the 1970 Big Sur Folk Festival concert]
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) 2:44 [seemingly an "A Capella" mix]
My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals) 3:43
Sunflower Promo 1:02 [a second promo, only noticeable difference in preview is the inclusion of This Whole World instead of Deirdre]
It's About Time (Backing Vocals Excerpt) 0:50

Also another repost of the link if you want to hear the samples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on November 23, 2020, 08:06:38 PM
After seeing all the titles just listed, here are some (hypothetical) questions this collection raises for me and other interesting things I noticed (apologies if some of these things have already been asked/answered, just hypothesizing out loud some more):
1. "It's About Time" has Carl added as one of the composers
2. Both "My Solution" and "My Solution (Track & Backing Vocals)" are included, even though only one is needed to protect the copyright. Why include both if this is just a copyright extension digital-only release (if that's what this is)?
3. Is "Cool, Cool Water (Alternate 2019 Mix)" (one of the auto-generated YouTube titles discovered about a month ago) the same as this collection's "Cool, Cool Water (Alternate Version)"?
4. Is there a complete version of "This Whole World (Long Version)" and not just one with backing vocals?
5. "All I Wanna Do (Session Intro & Backing Vocals)" has no mention of a track in the title even though the preview includes what sounds like a basic track. Is that just the session intro or should it be considered a "Track & Backing Vocals" mix?
6. The mix of "Sweet and Bitter" is very stripped down compared to the circulating version, which I believe was said to have been overdubbed some time later. Is the version included here an attempt at an authentic 1970 mix?
7. Is there going to be new mixes (aka 2019 mixes) for all tracks from this era or just those not on the original albums as this collection hints at?
8. Assuming this collection makes up at least some of Feel Flows' contents (and is not a separate release altogether, it's hard to tell for certain at this point), there's ~2.5 CDs worth of material here, with the addition of the entire Big Sur concert plus Dennis' solo material making the total ~3 CDs. If there's a remix or remaster of the original albums then it's 4 CDs, leaving only ~80 minutes left to cover what's missing if there are only 5 CD's.
9. What's noticeably missing (from what I can tell anyways): San Miguel (complete song), Break Away, Celebrate the News, What Can the Matter Be?, I'm Going Your Way (complete song), Loop de Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' in an Aeroplane) (complete song), Where Is She?, Games Two Can Play, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Back Home (complete song), Fallin' in Love, (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again, Barnyard Blues, 4th of July, Barbara (probably included as part of Dennis' solo material), Symphony of Frogs, Untitled #3, Telephone Backgrounds (On A Clear Day), Won't You Tell Me (with Brian & Carl's vocals), songs from the Fred Vail country album, Silly Walls (with David Sandler on lead vocals), Awake (Brian's piano demo), and songs from the early Carl & the Passions sessions in late 1971.
10. While only tangentially related, is there any news on releases by The Flame or Spring, since the former album is 50 years old now (and also had a follow-up that's still unreleased) and the latter album's recording sessions took place in 1971 (probably some of 1972 as well)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 23, 2020, 08:12:08 PM
The allmusic link to 1970 Release doesn't work for me anymore, as it just redirects somewhere else, but the album is still listed in their discography on the site. Anyone else have this problem?

Insider info says there was a takedown request.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on November 23, 2020, 08:24:40 PM
The allmusic link to 1970 Release doesn't work for me anymore, as it just redirects somewhere else, but the album is still listed in their discography on the site. Anyone else have this problem?

Insider info says there was a takedown request.

Should I perhaps remove my first post then to be safe?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 23, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Should I perhaps remove my first post then to be safe?

I don't think you need to do that. I mean, it's not like you posted the nuclear football codes?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 23, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
Should I perhaps remove my first post then to be safe?

I don't think you need to do that. I mean, it's not like you posted the nuclear football codes?

But if anyone does have those feel free to post!  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on November 24, 2020, 05:41:51 AM
The write-up on allmusic is gone, sure, but at least ONE of the actual links to the music is still there:

https://rovimusic.rovicorp.com/playback.mp3?c=lC9pxyb9Lf858OXBxCItTlWnbEN5fCjifro6xhIBuB4%3D&f=I


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 24, 2020, 07:42:09 AM
So when I saw the AllMusic page, I knew it would eventually get taken down, so I went to make sure someone had saved it in the Internet Archive (someone did).

Now that's gone too: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792 (https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792)

Capitol reeeeeally wanted this memory-holed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 24, 2020, 08:49:01 AM
I loved hearing all the clips.

And I love the speculation of how this and many other things will fit into the box set.

I, for one, though, keep holding a thought in the back of my mind, namely this...

Remember... early in the year Endless Summer Quarterly said there was going to be a 5 disc set covering "Sunflower" and "Feel Flows"...  BUT... Howie came here and said the description in ESQ wasn't anywhere close to what the project really was!

So I keep hoping that there's a LOT MORE than 5 discs in this box set!  And for 5 discs (which is a lot!) to be off by "that" much it seems to me the set has to be at least 7 discs, and probably more!  Maybe even a video disc?

Just food for thought, that I'm surprised no one has really speculated on before!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Also, I'm really glad that we have a tentative release date.  But May or June 2021?

Why can't it be sooner?  I find it depressing that we still have to wait that long for it.

I mean, wasn't it supposed to come out last February with almost no fanfare?  Why can't they put it out this year with no fanfare?

Alright, maybe lots of "fanfare" had been planned before last February, but since the release date had been derailed none of the fanfare was put forth.  Still, how much fanfare do you need for this?  Especially in this day and age when brick and mortar shops are almost all but gone?  Do we really need 7 or 8 months of anticipation for it to come out?  Didn't someone say the Elvis and Elton John box sets were only announced a few months in advance?  Why can't this come out in December or January; or February at the latest?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 24, 2020, 09:18:23 AM
Why can't it be sooner?  I find it depressing that we still have to wait that long for it.

Alright, maybe lots of "fanfare" had been planned before last February, but since the release date had been derailed none of the fanfare was put forth.  Still, how much fanfare do you need for this?  Especially in this day and age when brick and mortar shops are almost all but gone?  Do we really need 7 or 8 months of anticipation for it to come out?  Didn't someone say the Elvis and Elton John box sets were only announced a few months in advance?  Why can't this come out in December or January; or February at the latest?

You're conflating "announced" with "already in production." Pressing and printing physical box sets takes time, and when you're under a global pandemic, things slow down even more. Everyone has to be in agreement before production gets to go forward. If you want someone to blame, it's whoever slowed down the decision making process and dragged their feet in signing off (cough cough Mike cough).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on November 24, 2020, 09:23:06 AM
Still on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 24, 2020, 09:32:44 AM
Why can't it be sooner?  I find it depressing that we still have to wait that long for it.

Alright, maybe lots of "fanfare" had been planned before last February, but since the release date had been derailed none of the fanfare was put forth.  Still, how much fanfare do you need for this?  Especially in this day and age when brick and mortar shops are almost all but gone?  Do we really need 7 or 8 months of anticipation for it to come out?  Didn't someone say the Elvis and Elton John box sets were only announced a few months in advance?  Why can't this come out in December or January; or February at the latest?

You're conflating "announced" with "already in production." Pressing and printing physical box sets takes time, and when you're under a global pandemic, things slow down even more. Everyone has to be in agreement before production gets to go forward. If you want someone to blame, it's whoever slowed down the decision making process and dragged their feet in signing off (cough cough Mike cough).




My understanding was the set was already finalized and it only needed to be manufactured.  So now that we have the go ahead and nothing apparently is going to be changed, just send the specs to the manufacturers and get it made!  How long can that take?  Okay, yes, with the pandemic it probably will take longer than usual.  And I guess there could be changes that are going to be made, but if Howie says it's "thriving" and "nobody will be disappointed" I took that to mean nothing was changed.

So give it to me in a couple months!  Please?  Pretty please?  Pretty please with sugar on top?   :'(


Love and merci,
Dan Lega




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 24, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
My understanding was the set was already finalized and it only needed to be manufactured.  So now that we have the go ahead and nothing apparently is going to be changed, just send the specs to the manufacturers and get it made!  How long can that take?  Okay, yes, with the pandemic it probably will take longer than usual.  And I guess there could be changes that are going to be made, but if Howie says it's "thriving" and "nobody will be disappointed" I took that to mean nothing was changed.

My dude, it's just not that simple. You don't just get the OK and make 2,000 copies of a multi-disc box set with a printed booklet. You make a handful, then everyone again has to sign off on them. If there's issues with the pressed CDs or the printings, they need to be fixed. Then they get fixed and get inspected again. You'll be sorely disappointed if you get your box set in 2 months and half the discs don't work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on November 24, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
Yep. Remember the brouhaha when the tracking on that one disc on Made in California was off by half a second?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on November 24, 2020, 10:47:28 AM
Yep. Remember the brouhaha when the tracking on that one disc on Made in California was off by half a second?

oh god, yes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 10:59:46 AM
Yep. Remember the brouhaha when the tracking on that one disc on Made in California was off by half a second?

oh god, yes.

Makes me wonder if any sort of final QC was performed on the MIC master before that slipped out into the hands of the public. I'm guessing somebody screwed up big-time behind the scenes with that one. I got a disc replacement myself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 24, 2020, 12:12:17 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 12:38:10 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on November 24, 2020, 01:13:01 PM
For those of you longing for more live shows to be in the FF set we're pretty much 100% to get the Monterey Big Sur music festival show from 1970 but what are the other possibilities? 1971 there was the Good Vibrations from Central Park show from which the footage and isolated vocal of Dennis sing Forever which was used during the C50 tour plus the set includes Okie which was one of the copyright tracks flagged on You Tube so we might get that set. Also there is the Beach Boys set with the Grateful Dead. What else is out there suitable for release?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 24, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
I'm dying for a release of the Concert in Central Park!  That's probably my Holy Grail in the concert area.

I'm also super-super-stoked for finally getting a real release of "My Solution"!  I love that track.  It's both hilarious and genius!

I didn't watch Brian on Facebook, but I doubt the reason he said he didn't know anything about it is not because of Mike, but because of either...

1)  He didn't recognize the name of the box set.  Maybe if they had described it as a box set with Sunflower and Surf's Up albums on it he might have known what they were talking about?

2)  It's been months upon months, and almost certainly more than a year (or two?) since he was asked to give an interview for the box set, so maybe he's forgotten about it mostly, and maybe someone else has been doing most of the legal finagling for him on whether it should come out or not?

Also, I heard from a reliable source that the box set is going to be 5 discs only.  So my speculation that it would be more than that  is not going to be fulfilled.  Darn it!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 24, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
For those of you longing for more live shows to be in the FF set we're pretty much 100% to get the Monterey Big Sur music festival show from 1970 but what are the other possibilities? 1971 there was the Good Vibrations from Central Park show from which the footage and isolated vocal of Dennis sing Forever which was used during the C50 tour plus the set includes Okie which was one of the copyright tracks flagged on You Tube so we might get that set. Also there is the Beach Boys set with the Grateful Dead. What else is out there suitable for release?

The isolated Dennis vocal on "Forever" on C50 was taken from the studio recording. They just used some '71 Central Park footage.

I don't think any multis exist for the Central Park show. In fact, I don't think even the full raw videotape footage exists of the full show. If you look at "Endless Harmony", the footage looks markedly *worse* than it does in "An American Band", implying that even the master tape for the aired segment went astray in the intervening years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on November 24, 2020, 01:41:16 PM
Also, I'm really glad that we have a tentative release date.  But May or June 2021?

Why can't it be sooner?  I find it depressing that we still have to wait that long for it.

I mean, wasn't it supposed to come out last February with almost no fanfare?  Why can't they put it out this year with no fanfare?

Alright, maybe lots of "fanfare" had been planned before last February, but since the release date had been derailed none of the fanfare was put forth.  Still, how much fanfare do you need for this?  Especially in this day and age when brick and mortar shops are almost all but gone?  Do we really need 7 or 8 months of anticipation for it to come out?  Didn't someone say the Elvis and Elton John box sets were only announced a few months in advance?  Why can't this come out in December or January; or February at the latest?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

It was, as seen here, relatively recently that this set, amazingly, got back on track and got momentum again.

There are a number of reasons that that late date on which the set got back on track would dictate that this thing could not make it out in full physical form in mere weeks/a month or two.

Nobody is more of the mind of "put this stuff out before we're all dead" than me; I can't tell you how many die-hard Beatles fans have died over the last decades waiting for a friggin' "Let It Be" DVD. But it's a small miracle (or more than a small one!) that "Feel Flows" is hopefully back on track. Let's all try to stick it out and survive until then....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
Also, I'm really glad that we have a tentative release date.  But May or June 2021?

Why can't it be sooner?  I find it depressing that we still have to wait that long for it.

I mean, wasn't it supposed to come out last February with almost no fanfare?  Why can't they put it out this year with no fanfare?

Alright, maybe lots of "fanfare" had been planned before last February, but since the release date had been derailed none of the fanfare was put forth.  Still, how much fanfare do you need for this?  Especially in this day and age when brick and mortar shops are almost all but gone?  Do we really need 7 or 8 months of anticipation for it to come out?  Didn't someone say the Elvis and Elton John box sets were only announced a few months in advance?  Why can't this come out in December or January; or February at the latest?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

It was, as seen here, relatively recently that this set, amazingly, got back on track and got momentum again.

There are a number of reasons that that late date on which the set got back on track would dictate that this thing could not make it out in full physical form in mere weeks/a month or two.

Nobody is more of the mind of "put this stuff out before we're all dead" than me; I can't tell you how many die-hard Beatles fans have died over the last decades waiting for a friggin' "Let It Be" DVD. But it's a small miracle (or more than a small one!) that "Feel Flows" is hopefully back on track. Let's all try to stick it out and survive until then....

Just listening with headphones to the 1970 samples that Elora graciously uploaded put me in a totally blissed out, ASMR state of happiness and made me forget about 2020 for a brief moment. The healing power of music. This band has that like no other band. For that reason alone it's quite a shame that this release didn't happen in this year to help fans get through the tough times, but thank goodness a release apparently is going to happen at all.❤️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on November 24, 2020, 02:19:31 PM
Yep. Remember the brouhaha when the tracking on that one disc on Made in California was off by half a second?

It was 2 seconds, and you can bet I got my replacement!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on November 24, 2020, 02:21:28 PM
I didn't watch Brian on Facebook, but I doubt the reason he said he didn't know anything about it is not because of Mike, but because of either...

1)  He didn't recognize the name of the box set.  Maybe if they had described it as a box set with Sunflower and Surf's Up albums on it he might have known what they were talking about?

2)  It's been months upon months, and almost certainly more than a year (or two?) since he was asked to give an interview for the box set, so maybe he's forgotten about it mostly, and maybe someone else has been doing most of the legal finagling for him on whether it should come out or not?

There's also a third option: Perhaps because the set hasn't been officially announced yet, Brian isn't sure yet if he's allowed to say anything about it and therefore he opted to err on the side of caution and claim he doesn't know anything about it. He did the same thing in early 2011 with the 50th reunion/TWGMTR, whereby whenever the press asked him any questions about a possible reunion his answers were that of “I have no interest in a reunion, I want to continue my solo career” or something along those lines.

Later we found out those were lies he purposefully fed to the press and that a reunion had been in the works for at least a year or two prior. I remember after the reunion album and tour were announced he expressed relief in one interview about how he was thankful that he didn’t have to remain tight-lipped about it anymore.

Also, I doubt this was in any way intentional, but you gotta love how Al literally said that "everyone knows about" the Feel Flows box set on Billy Hinche's Facebook show a few days ago, and only days later when asked about it Brian says "I don't know anything about that."  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on November 24, 2020, 02:36:08 PM
For those of you longing for more live shows to be in the FF set we're pretty much 100% to get the Monterey Big Sur music festival show from 1970 but what are the other possibilities? 1971 there was the Good Vibrations from Central Park show from which the footage and isolated vocal of Dennis sing Forever which was used during the C50 tour plus the set includes Okie which was one of the copyright tracks flagged on You Tube so we might get that set. Also there is the Beach Boys set with the Grateful Dead. What else is out there suitable for release?

I think the Big Sur show is the only one of those you mentioned that has to be released but I could be wrong. On an unrelated note, the set with the Dead is out there in pretty good quality and I doubt it would ever see, or need, an official release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: harveyw on November 24, 2020, 02:37:26 PM
Still on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q

And now gone from youtube too!

Edit: now here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZcSn-Ybjw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on November 24, 2020, 02:41:04 PM
Some of Brian's answers in today's Q&A suggest that there was a disconnect between the moderator picking a question for Brian to answer and Brian's actual answer. I think they were communicating verbally to one other, and that Brian wasn't reading the questions on his screen. Not that I blame him, I had a hard time trying to scroll through 1000+ questions to find the ones he answered. The new FB design is not user-friendly and eats up considerable computer memory.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 24, 2020, 02:52:10 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question

Translation: Brian didn't want to give more than 3 word answers to any questions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on November 24, 2020, 03:10:28 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question

Translation: Brian didn't want to give more than 3 word answers to any questions.
Translation: That you, Mike? ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 03:15:27 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question

Translation: Brian didn't want to give more than 3 word answers to any questions.

That may be true also. Brian could also say "yes, coming soon" as a brief response if he wanted to. But if Mike was behind shenanigans - as has been said by insiders who would know - do you think Brian *wants* to open the door to a discussion that could lead to somebody asking him about said shenanigans? He probably wanted to change the subject just like for decades he wanted to change the subject about Smile, because it had become an uncomfortable thing for him to get into. Same with when Brian was once asked about POB, and he pretended to be unaware of it.  Tough to talk about his brother Denny for any number of reasons, especially if Brian is having an off day, so easier to just brush it off and move on.

Hopefully this set's release can transform into good vibrations for Brian from here on out, but I'm sure for a while there behind the scenes, this set and the holdup and attempted thwarting of content must have been somewhat stressful, and it's far from the first time Brian has had to deal with that BS due to that same reason throughout his career.

Do I think Brian is staying up at night tossing and turning over this box? Probably not. He's probably hesitant to put too much of a emotional investment into thinking and worrying about something that could wind up having disappointment as the final result, and it's that sad pattern that he has developed as a defense mechanism because of the release of his art being screwed with by others so much over the years.  I don't think Brian's emotional mental health and well-being is ever a remote consideration for Mike when Mike goes on his ego trips. Does anyone really think this is an incorrect assumption?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on November 24, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question

Translation: Brian didn't want to give more than 3 word answers to any questions.
Translation: That you, Mike? ::)

Yeah mate, its me Mike Love just hanging around on this message board. I just love hanging out with all you great friendly guys who love and appreciate the music!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 24, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
Still on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q

And now gone from youtube too!

Edit: now here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZcSn-Ybjw

Can Capital please relax. The fans are doing a better job promoting this thing than they are


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 24, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Brian probably couldn't care less


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 24, 2020, 04:33:45 PM
Still on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6570o9dAr4Q

And now gone from youtube too!

Edit: now here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZcSn-Ybjw

Can Capital please relax. The fans are doing a better job promoting this thing than they are
Capitol doesn't have anything to do with that vid being moved. And this is still up: https://web.archive.org/web/20201122125851/https://www.allmusic.com/album/1970-release-mw0003450792?fbclid=IwAR3TNzgjItMq5P_bkni9f15VsqFD6Z24FsRpoqOq8fO-iNhx5l7p-9BRYg8


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 04:43:31 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Brian probably couldn't care less

I guess that's why Brian opened up and gave extensive interviews about the era for the box. Right?


Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.



Yes, Shady. Brian did all that, went deeper than he ever has before, as described by Howie, all for a project he couldn't care less about.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on November 24, 2020, 05:25:36 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Brian probably couldn't care less

I guess that's why Brian opened up and gave extensive interviews about the era for the box. Right?


Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.



Yes, Shady. Brian did all that, went deeper than he ever has before, as described by Howie, all for a project he couldn't care less about.

You took what I said wrong

I never said Brian wasn't involved in the project or that he didn't care to contribute to it in a meaningful way. I was referencing the delay issues, the release date hold up, the fall out from the box set. Brian contributed, gave the ok and moved on in my opinion. He probably doesn't even know its called Feel Flows and I'm not saying that negatively


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 24, 2020, 06:49:31 PM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Brian probably couldn't care less

I guess that's why Brian opened up and gave extensive interviews about the era for the box. Right?


Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.



Yes, Shady. Brian did all that, went deeper than he ever has before, as described by Howie, all for a project he couldn't care less about.

You took what I said wrong

I never said Brian wasn't involved in the project or that he didn't care to contribute to it in a meaningful way. I was referencing the delay issues, the release date hold up, the fall out from the box set. Brian contributed, gave the ok and moved on in my opinion. He probably doesn't even know its called Feel Flows and I'm not saying that negatively

Fair enough, sorry if I misunderstood what you're saying.

But even upon that clarification, I still take issue, because to assume that would mean that Brian doesn't care whatsoever that his late brother's material was being jeopardized, and I just don't buy that. On top of that, there was a period where the entire release was totally up in the air if it was going to happen at all. I'm sure Melinda was pissed about Mike being a bratty man-child, and unless she's a robot who is able to just press a button and not let that emotion show at all to her husband, it doesn't make much sense to think Brian doesn't know/care at all.

Especially seeing as he's at home 24/7 these days and isn't on tour with plenty of distractions, I'm sure he has plenty of time to ingest some facts here and there about what's happening. Even accidentally.

I do think it's very possible that Brian has tried very much to stay completely out of the drama involved in this set, and most likely his wife tries to shield him from the stress of it. Maybe Brian is somewhat of an ostrich, but I don't think he is just totally checked out from knowing or caring anything about what's going on.

And if Brian for some reason has chosen to not care or to purposefully remain unaware of what's going on, well once again that choice can be traced back to the ongoing stress and politics that releases by this band always go in tandem with, and the blame for that rests on the shoulders of his cousin.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on November 25, 2020, 08:03:58 AM
If I were in Brian's shoes I don't think I'd lose much sleep over the box set. I'm convinced he cares deeply about the music itself, but probably not as much about the politics of its repackaging? Of course I might be totally wrong, just guessing/assuming here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on November 25, 2020, 08:12:47 AM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Translation : all of his cousin's FF-related antics are stressful to even think about, so he'd rather just avoid the question

Translation: Brian didn't want to give more than 3 word answers to any questions.

It honestly wouldn't really be that surprising if he really doesn't know anything about the box set.   :thud


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 25, 2020, 08:23:58 AM
Brian was asked about the boxed set on the live Q&A he's doing on Facebook. His response? "Feel Flows I don't know about that"

Brian probably couldn't care less

In the context that this was a Facebook Q&A that probably dragged Brian away from his usual routine, I completely agree. That being said, I do agree with CD that Brian definitely cares about this music and the legacy of his bothers. So I am very sure that Brian cares about this set, but this was a Facebook Q&A, and Brian is beyond known for giving the most quick and easy answers to this type of questioning.

Brian probably just wanted to see how many pages of speculation would be written up on SS if he said 7 words dismissing the set ;D

It honestly wouldn't really be that surprising if he really doesn't know anything about the box set.   :thud

He knows about the set. And he did in-depth interviews for the liner notes - there is no way he did those interviews without any context of what the interviews were for.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on November 25, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
I just did another interview for the project with Brian on Friday.
Brian knows all about Feel Flows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 25, 2020, 09:20:29 AM
He talked down/denied any question about what became the C50 the year before it happened. As it still hasn’t been announced, a denial about FF is probably his best answer and cuts off any further questioning.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 25, 2020, 09:21:29 AM
I just did another interview for the project with Brian on Friday.
Brian knows all about Feel Flows.

Well there you go. Awesome.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 25, 2020, 09:25:47 AM
Maybe that was what caused the problems all along: no one told Brian about it  ;D ;D *onlykidding*


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 25, 2020, 10:03:34 AM
I just did another interview for the project with Brian on Friday.
Brian knows all about Feel Flows.

Very cool. Thanks Howie.

Anybody who at this point doesn't understand that Brian will plead ignorance with random fans, or in certain generic interview situations in which he isn't comfortable (Howie excluded) in order to get out of talking about things that could have touchy or political connotations, simply hasn't been paying attention to Brian's nature (albiet inconsistent nature) for decades.

I mean let's face it, Mike did the same thing when he brushed off FF in that interview a few months back. It's preposterous for anybody to think that anyone in the band somehow doesn't know/care what's going on with the box. For the life of me I can't understand how anybody could draw that type of conclusion.

Yes, Brian won't know the name of the pressing plant that the box will get manufactured at. I'm sure there are some details that will escape him because he doesn't care about that type of stuff. But I'm sure he knows plenty, especially if the entire project was jeopardized, there's no way he wasn't aware and didn't/doesn't care about the important stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 25, 2020, 10:34:11 AM
sh*t, Brian probably meant it as a joke. Wouldn’t surprise me...”interested parties “ view this board . Can’t blame them...we’re interesting people lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on November 25, 2020, 10:52:25 AM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

Yeah, it's Hal Blaine on drums and Gene Estes playing a shaker.

A belated thanks for your reply, C-man. Interesting, I don't think I hear a shaker on that basic track, but my ears could be bad. And there are definitely additional drums on the final track. But I agree that such a realistic snare sound was way beyond the capability of any drum machine in 1969.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 25, 2020, 10:56:47 AM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

Yeah, it's Hal Blaine on drums and Gene Estes playing a shaker.

A belated thanks for your reply, C-man. Interesting, I don't think I hear a shaker on that basic track, but my ears could be bad. And there are definitely additional drums on the final track. But I agree that such a realistic snare sound was way beyond the capability of any drum machine in 1969.

I never noticed the shaker in the final mix, either - until I heard the basic tracking session. Now it's quite obvious to me in the final mix! As for extra drums being overdubbed - I think that's the effect of the echo/delay applied to the original drums.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on November 25, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on November 25, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

Yeah, it's Hal Blaine on drums and Gene Estes playing a shaker.

A belated thanks for your reply, C-man. Interesting, I don't think I hear a shaker on that basic track, but my ears could be bad. And there are definitely additional drums on the final track. But I agree that such a realistic snare sound was way beyond the capability of any drum machine in 1969.

I never noticed the shaker in the final mix, either - until I heard the basic tracking session. Now it's quite obvious to me in the final mix! As for extra drums being overdubbed - I think that's the effect of the echo/delay applied to the original drums.

It's a cabasa twisted manually, like the Heroes and Villains chorus, so you're getting a more mechanical sandpapery texture than something like a maraca. It essentially replaces the hi-hat. There's also a ratchet/noisemaker veeeeeery faintly audible in the final mix on the downbeats! (seconding delay/stereo placement of the drums rather than an overdub)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on November 25, 2020, 01:03:18 PM
The shaker on "All I Wanna Do" is kinda like the cowbell on "Slip On Through" - the source instrument was not used in a way that is typical, before or since. The cowbell on "Slip On Through" brings to mind the sound of rhythmic crickets or grasshoppers IMO. Which is tbh a genius production move from Dennis, considering the lyrical content ... puts one in mind of the "place" the song inhabits occurring late at night, and also implies the protagonist waiting impatiently for some type of response from the subject of his affections.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on November 25, 2020, 01:08:38 PM
... they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds?

Depends on which copyright lawyer you ask. I'm beginning to think that lawyers for UMG et al have decided that quiet digital/streaming releases for all of a few seconds qualify for copyright extension; it's just that no one's taken them to court to challenge it. Certainly seems like less of a hassle for the record companies than pressing up 100-500 copies and selling them, like with Dylan.

And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up.

Answered here: https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480 (https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480)

I’m catching up...but scottythered, thanks for the info and more specifically what I meant is explained below.

... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

Ding ding ding. That’s making the most sense to me right now.
I've said this elsewhere, but why would they put in effort to include a ton of alternates of released songs from both albums, plus material from 1969 and 1971? Realistically, they only needed to upload 2-3 of these (or maybe 4) in order to protect the copyright.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on November 25, 2020, 02:24:26 PM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brian typed everything.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on November 25, 2020, 02:35:21 PM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brian typed everything.

I’m pretty sure on previous Q&As Brian speaks the answer and someone types it for him. Probably a lot faster that way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on November 25, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brian typed everything.

I’m pretty sure on previous Q&As Brian speaks the answer and someone types it for him. Probably a lot faster that way.
Yep, that's how they've confirmed they do it. Same thing happened this time around.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on November 25, 2020, 05:35:39 PM
I just did another interview for the project with Brian on Friday.
Brian knows all about Feel Flows.

Good to hear, Howie. I figure Brian's response to the FF question is just another of his put-ons.

It'll all make for a great article down the road apiece: "Hitch-hiking with Godot: The FEEL FLOWS Story"...  :3d

The shaker on "All I Wanna Do" is kinda like the cowbell on "Slip On Through" - the source instrument was not used in a way that is typical, before or since. The cowbell on "Slip On Through" brings to mind the sound of rhythmic crickets or grasshoppers IMO. Which is tbh a genius production move from Dennis, considering the lyrical content ... puts one in mind of the "place" the song inhabits occurring late at night, and also implies the protagonist waiting impatiently for some type of response from the subject of his affections.

Stephen Desper called it "the big cricket." I'm curious about its genesis...is it on the track from the get-go or was it added later in the production process?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on November 25, 2020, 06:04:33 PM

Stephen Desper called it "the big cricket." I'm curious about its genesis...is it on the track from the get-go or was it added later in the production process?

It was added later...but, there is also a cowbell on the original, previously unreleased track recorded at Gold Star three months or so before the final version.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on November 25, 2020, 07:44:48 PM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.

In his book a few years ago, he explained that he definitely heard *the material* on Pacific Ocean Blue, because he had heard it in various incarnations and evolutions over the years that Dennis was working on it. Basically, he just never sat down and *listened to* POB.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on November 25, 2020, 09:12:22 PM
I remember being at a live Q&A with Brian where he said he'd never heard POB before. I think it's kinda cool that whoever is typing for him is writing exactly what he says.

In his book a few years ago, he explained that he definitely heard *the material* on Pacific Ocean Blue, because he had heard it in various incarnations and evolutions over the years that Dennis was working on it. Basically, he just never sat down and *listened to* POB.

That's plausible.
Let's face it.    It's neither the end of the world nor really all that surprising if Brian never sat down and spent 40 straight minutes listening to POB.   We're fans. They're not.  It's a job for them.  Maybe Brian is going to listen to a Rubber Soul or a Spector Christmas album all the way through because he's a fan.  But was Denny's music really his cup of tea?  And it wouldn't surprise me if there were some BB albums that Denny never listened to all the way through.  Ditto Mike Love.   Heck, remember that Gold Mine interview from 1992 in which the interviewers complimented ML on the BBs' Capitol two-fer CDs which had been out a full 2 years at that point, and Mike had no idea what they were talking about.  Hadn't seen 'em, hadn't heard of them, didn't care.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on November 26, 2020, 01:46:52 AM
Yeah, they did confirm someone else does the typing. Just think it's cool that they write exactly what he says rather than saying no Brian, you do know what Feel Flows is about.

I guess that makes sense that he might never have listened to POB from start to finish. He just talks about what he is comfortable with unless he is really at ease with someone he knows I guess.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on November 26, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
I am sure it's a longshot, but I think it would be very cool to have Desper's book included with Feel Flows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on November 26, 2020, 03:48:45 PM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 27, 2020, 03:48:20 PM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.

Or, you know, a way to actually listen to it in quad - I'm thinking a 5.1 mix, sans center and bass channels, on BluRay - we all want cool stuff, whether it's even a remote possibility or not is another matter.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 27, 2020, 11:27:47 PM
And Brian to hand deliver the set directly to me....we’ll make lasagna that night 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on November 28, 2020, 06:59:41 AM
"....we’ll make lasagna that night"

plus bring matzo-ball soup


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on November 28, 2020, 11:35:50 AM
"....we’ll make lasagna that night"

plus bring matzo-ball soup
and cheese pizza


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on November 28, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
with Reddi-Wip


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on November 28, 2020, 01:38:55 PM
While watching Norbit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on November 28, 2020, 02:05:32 PM
And listening to "Da Doo Ron Ron" now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on November 28, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
and WAIT YOUR goshdarn TURN.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 30, 2020, 09:24:41 AM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.

Or, you know, a way to actually listen to it in quad - I'm thinking a 5.1 mix, sans center and bass channels, on BluRay - we all want cool stuff, whether it's even a remote possibility or not is another matter.

The Analogue Productions SACD of both Sunflower and Surf's Up decodes with a surround sound processor to surround sound.  It's not a Desper matrix decoder, and the Desper matrix was not designed to decode into 4.0 (let alone 5.1), but because at the time in both the promotional materials included with the albums and in the press the albums were reported to be quadrophonic compatible, AP put in a surround sound option.  Stephen wasn't happy about it but when he found out why they had done it, he understood even though he didn't really approve.  It's not a discrete 4.0 but it is "surround."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 30, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.

Or, you know, a way to actually listen to it in quad - I'm thinking a 5.1 mix, sans center and bass channels, on BluRay - we all want cool stuff, whether it's even a remote possibility or not is another matter.

The Analogue Productions SACD of both Sunflower and Surf's Up decodes with a surround sound processor to surround sound.  It's not a Desper matrix decoder, and the Desper matrix was not designed to decode into 4.0 (let alone 5.1), but because at the time in both the promotional materials included with the albums and in the press the albums were reported to be quadrophonic compatible, AP put in a surround sound option.  Stephen wasn't happy about it but when he found out why they had done it, he understood even though he didn't really approve.  It's not a discrete 4.0 but it is "surround."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 30, 2020, 09:26:09 AM
Sorry for the double post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on November 30, 2020, 10:09:40 AM
It does seem like quite a shame that Stephen wasn't more involved with the FF set (unless I'm mistaken?). I can only imagine politics are part of that, although maybe there will be some interviews with him. It definitely seems like he became the 7th member of the band at that time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 30, 2020, 02:40:08 PM
I assume he was interviewed for the liner notes to the set?  I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 30, 2020, 05:34:11 PM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.

Or, you know, a way to actually listen to it in quad - I'm thinking a 5.1 mix, sans center and bass channels, on BluRay - we all want cool stuff, whether it's even a remote possibility or not is another matter.

The Analogue Productions SACD of both Sunflower and Surf's Up decodes with a surround sound processor to surround sound.  It's not a Desper matrix decoder, and the Desper matrix was not designed to decode into 4.0 (let alone 5.1), but because at the time in both the promotional materials included with the albums and in the press the albums were reported to be quadrophonic compatible, AP put in a surround sound option.  Stephen wasn't happy about it but when he found out why they had done it, he understood even though he didn't really approve.  It's not a discrete 4.0 but it is "surround."

I suppose I'll ask then, is there any reason that the output of the quad decode - the proper matrix - could not be released as discrete 4.0?

I had assumed that there would be no technical difficulty with this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on November 30, 2020, 06:59:58 PM
 We’ve discussed this before but there are old interviews floating around where Brian discussed listening to POB and liking it.  Why he now claims never to have heard it.,...he’s younger than that now...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 30, 2020, 07:29:17 PM
SWD's book... And a vinyl copy of the original matrix mix to vindicate the innovation 50 years ago.

Or, you know, a way to actually listen to it in quad - I'm thinking a 5.1 mix, sans center and bass channels, on BluRay - we all want cool stuff, whether it's even a remote possibility or not is another matter.

The Analogue Productions SACD of both Sunflower and Surf's Up decodes with a surround sound processor to surround sound.  It's not a Desper matrix decoder, and the Desper matrix was not designed to decode into 4.0 (let alone 5.1), but because at the time in both the promotional materials included with the albums and in the press the albums were reported to be quadrophonic compatible, AP put in a surround sound option.  Stephen wasn't happy about it but when he found out why they had done it, he understood even though he didn't really approve.  It's not a discrete 4.0 but it is "surround."

I suppose I'll ask then, is there any reason that the output of the quad decode - the proper matrix - could not be released as discrete 4.0?

I had assumed that there would be no technical difficulty with this.

My understanding - and Stephen should really chime in on this - is that despite press releases saying that Sunflower and Surfs Up were quad encoded/compatible, in fact Stephen’s matrix was never a 4.0 quad matrix and so can’t be decoded to a true 4.O by any of the decoding algorithms used then or now.  AP has done the best they can do with what is encoded on the master tapes.  A new matrix would have to be made to get true “quad” and of course a new discrete 5.1 or 7.1 would be the best course if they want to release a surround mix.  Or they could manufacture lots of Stephen’s decoder devices and we could hear it the way he intended. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on November 30, 2020, 08:06:29 PM
My understanding is that he, at the time, demonstrated that it was possible to press a vinyl record with the decoded matrix that would play on any stereo phonograph (hence my comment earlier; it's an entirely reasonable item to include in a deluxe boxed set). The record company wasn't interested in the novelty/innovation, and so it went.

I'm going from memory but I recall the "surround" mix was never meant o to be anything beyond stereo (only two speakers necessary), as mentioned above. That's why the unsanctioned 4.0 release on the SACD was not welcomed by SWD. What he has expressed over the years is the desire to see what he (and Carl) created to be released as originally intended.

I'm sure I could find direct quotes in Honored Guest thread but I won't bother since it's a pain to do using a phone.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 02, 2020, 12:26:56 PM
Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on December 02, 2020, 07:28:39 PM
Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on December 02, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
Here's a relevant post I found:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1203.msg3372.html#msg3372


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 03, 2020, 07:56:06 AM
I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 03, 2020, 08:19:31 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 03, 2020, 11:07:17 AM
I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


New stereo mixes would be welcome.  Even though that seems to be the latest method to repackage and re-release the same music.   
They recently remixed a bunch of John Lennon's solo material for a greatest hits compilation.  But with absolutely no disrespect meant towards Mr. Desper's work, I would be curious to hear how a remixed Sunflower would sound. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 03, 2020, 11:08:47 AM
I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


New stereo mixes would be welcome.  Even though that seems to be the latest method to repackage and re-release the same music.  
They recently remixed a bunch of John Lennon's solo material for a greatest hits compilation.  But with absolutely no disrespect meant towards Mr. Desper's work, I would be curious to hear how a remixed Sunflower would sound.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 03, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
Okay, so I now understand - it's all about psychoacoustics.

Amazing noone's ever bootlegged the decode.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RONDEMON on December 03, 2020, 12:05:56 PM
I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: urbanite on December 03, 2020, 12:43:21 PM
I like Sunflower but there's no song on the album that would have been a hit on am radio during that time.  There should have been a song on the album called Sunflower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 03, 2020, 12:58:34 PM
I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

Interestingly, shortly thereafter on CATP, they went overboard in the opposite direction, with the comically too-loud drums on "Here She Comes"  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 03, 2020, 12:59:58 PM
I like Sunflower but there's no song on the album that would have been a hit on am radio during that time.  There should have been a song on the album called Sunflower.

Has the band ever stated the reason for the album's title? I guess the whole flower blooming imagery and it being an "album offering" was some sort of hippie code for "the band is cool to enjoy now", but I wonder if it was ever specifically discussed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on December 03, 2020, 01:29:19 PM
Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.
So is this system like Prologic 2 where you get different frequencies bounced to different speakers?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on December 03, 2020, 02:17:34 PM
always found it interesting that a few years later Glen Campbell had a minor hit called Sunflower, At that time I did look to see if there was a Beach Boy connection, but other than the obvious, there wasn't.  :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 03, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
In the version of “Back Home” done around that time, there’s the line about “backyards where folks keep sunflowers growin”...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 03, 2020, 03:19:54 PM
In the version of “Back Home” done around that time, there’s the line about “backyards where folks keep sunflowers growin”...

Interesting, I wonder if that lyric came about after the album title was coined, or vice versa


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 03, 2020, 03:32:32 PM
I’d think the song lyric inspired the album title. I can imagine the thinking being “holy crap, we were gonna call the album Add Some Music, but the single flopped - now what do we call it?”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 03, 2020, 03:38:45 PM
I’d also express the opinion that Sunflower  wasn’t successful commercially primarily  because The Beach Boys were the uncoolest band in the universe at that time. Nothing to do with the drums. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on December 03, 2020, 06:42:05 PM
Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.
So is this system like Prologic 2 where you get different frequencies bounced to different speakers?

Well as far as I know, Desper has never really elaborated on what the process did under the hood, but no--Prologic uses some kind of summing/subtraction matrix to artificially create discrete material to multi-speaker set-ups.  Desper's system is for stereo -- it only goes to two speakers but his technology does some things to psychoacoustically trick the brain into hearing a more 3D sound. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 03, 2020, 08:32:22 PM
I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

Interestingly, shortly thereafter on CATP, they went overboard in the opposite direction, with the comically too-loud drums on "Here She Comes"  :lol

Well, that one WAS produced & mixed by a drummer, so...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 03, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 04, 2020, 01:34:31 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 04, 2020, 06:39:28 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 04, 2020, 07:12:28 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

The drums and bass are too loud for my taste. Conversely, the lead vocals are buried. I wish they'd introduced themselves by leaning closer to the mic!   ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 04, 2020, 07:28:55 AM
I’d think the song lyric inspired the album title. I can imagine the thinking being “holy crap, we were gonna call the album Add Some Music, but the single flopped - now what do we call it?”

The album title came from the logo of a sunflower crate label, it was Carl's idea. Google 'Orangedale Sunflower'.

I'd imagine the line in Back Home was meant as a deliberate reference. The album was always called 'Sunflower' even when it was first submitted - 'Add Some Music' was a temporary change from the label to tie into the single.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 04, 2020, 08:01:48 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

Or I think the band as a whole was trying to get some attention with the rock audiences and get closer to what FM and AOR radio was playing, and part of that sound was based on Zeppelin, The Who, etc where drums and bass were way up in the mixes. "When The Levee Breaks" being perhaps the most famous example, where the drums and the drum sound are the main hook of the tune, and that's a truly *extreme* drum sound that became iconic.

However...when you listen to the song "Here She Comes", and consider when it was recorded, the production actually sounds a few years ahead of its time, and predates what became a staple of mid-70's FM album rock: The rock shuffle, or for more musician-minded types the up-tempo version of what Steely Dan used on a few of their more well known songs and also what Jeff Porcaro used on hit after hit. That driving shuffle, the close-mic'ed isolated drum sound pushed up in the mix, etc.

Listen to the intro - That driving shuffle could have been "The Lido Shuffle" by Boz Scaggs, "Black Friday" or "Reelin In The Years" by Steely Dan, or perhaps even more coincidental if you put a Clarence Clemmons sax line on top of that intro, it was very close if not eerily similar to what Springsteen was doing on his first few albums, especially with that Hammond organ.

So was CATP more influential than any sales numbers would indicate, or was it just something in the musical air in 1972-73 that happened to be a sound of the moment? Either way it did give the band a rock edge that they were looking for to cross over to some rock and AOR listeners.

Great track, great sounds - But looking back on it I wonder if it would have actually gotten airplay if they had kept the fast driving shuffle in the intro going throughout the song rather than breaking the groove as they did and slowing the pulse. Not a critique, just an observation, but if you get people moving and grooving on a rocking shuffle it's generally a letdown to have them stop moving and grooving the same way after setting them up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 04, 2020, 08:39:52 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

I think the drums and bass sit decently well in the mix once everything kicks in and the vocals start, but particularly in the intro it just seems almost like it's a bit of a mistake. Yet I'm sure it was an intentional choice. The snare also sounds a little bit shrill to me so maybe that's why I'm not quite digging it being pumped up so loudly in the intro. After the intro, I think the song settles into more of a cool groove that I can dig for the remainder of it.

But to me it comes across almost like the inverse of Metallica with their "and justice for all" album, where the bass was infamously and comically buried because of some weird ego issue involving Lars, and oddly perhaps out of loyalty to their late bass player Cliff Burton.

The intro of "Here she comes" to my ears feels like an overreach to show off a bit. Maybe this was not on purpose or actually conciously intended that way, but right or wrong, it comes across to me in that matter. It's a well-known musical trope that musicians will often try to mix their own musical instrument louder in order to stick out more. The scene at the music studio in the movie "boogie nights" is another funny example.

Interestingly, compare to "honkin' down the highway", where there's a drum-only intro with no other instruments whatsoever. Naturally the intro is pretty loud and heavy sounding, and then a completely different EQ/compression is applied to the drums as soon as the song properly kicks in. That's an example where it works, but on "here she comes" it just sounds a bit weird IMHO.

C-man, were Ricky/Blondie, and Carl chiefly the ones who worked on the mixing and production on this tune?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 04, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
I’ll always remember listening to a local FM station when Carl and the Passions was coming out, hoping to hear a track or two before the album actually hit the stores.  They would play a “superset” of 4 songs from various artists, then they’d tell you what those 4 tracks were after the superset had finished. So, I’m listening, listening, listening and I don’t hear The Beach Boys. The dj comes on and says something like “ that was new music from the Stones, Randy Newman, Little Feet and The Beach Boys!” And I would flip out!  I heard no Beach Boys!!!  This repeated over several torturous hours.  The dj had been playing “Here She Comes”.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on December 04, 2020, 09:03:42 AM
"Here She comes" has such a cool groove. And the intro is a favorite Beach Boys moment of mine.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 04, 2020, 09:12:33 AM
I’ll always remember listening to a local FM station when Carl and the Passions was coming out, hoping to hear a track or two before the album actually hit the stores.  They would play a “superset” of 4 songs from various artists, then they’d tell you what those 4 tracks were after the superset had finished. So, I’m listening, listening, listening and I don’t hear The Beach Boys. The dj comes on and says something like “ that was new music from the Stones, Randy Newman, Little Feet and The Beach Boys!” And I would flip out!  I heard no Beach Boys!!!  This repeated over several torturous hours.  The dj had been playing “Here She Comes”.  :)

This is amazing :lol

That's what I love about it: how completely detached this song is from anything in The Beach Boys catalogue. There are a few songs I'll play people to change their stereotypical perception of The Beach Boys:

Cabinessense
Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
Here She Comes

These songs completely nuke the idea that this band is solely a fun-in-the-sun July 4th soundtrack band (which is how most people see the band, imo). And when Feel Flows comes out I'll add some of that to the arsenal.

It's this rich catalogue of creativity, beauty, and variety that makes The Beach Boys such a special band.

"Here She comes" has such a cool groove. And the intro is a favorite Beach Boys moment of mine.

Same!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 04, 2020, 09:21:57 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

Or I think the band as a whole was trying to get some attention with the rock audiences and get closer to what FM and AOR radio was playing, and part of that sound was based on Zeppelin, The Who, etc where drums and bass were way up in the mixes. "When The Levee Breaks" being perhaps the most famous example, where the drums and the drum sound are the main hook of the tune, and that's a truly *extreme* drum sound that became iconic.

However...when you listen to the song "Here She Comes", and consider when it was recorded, the production actually sounds a few years ahead of its time, and predates what became a staple of mid-70's FM album rock: The rock shuffle, or for more musician-minded types the up-tempo version of what Steely Dan used on a few of their more well known songs and also what Jeff Porcaro used on hit after hit. That driving shuffle, the close-mic'ed isolated drum sound pushed up in the mix, etc.

Listen to the intro - That driving shuffle could have been "The Lido Shuffle" by Boz Scaggs, "Black Friday" or "Reelin In The Years" by Steely Dan, or perhaps even more coincidental if you put a Clarence Clemmons sax line on top of that intro, it was very close if not eerily similar to what Springsteen was doing on his first few albums, especially with that Hammond organ.

So was CATP more influential than any sales numbers would indicate, or was it just something in the musical air in 1972-73 that happened to be a sound of the moment? Either way it did give the band a rock edge that they were looking for to cross over to some rock and AOR listeners.

Great track, great sounds - But looking back on it I wonder if it would have actually gotten airplay if they had kept the fast driving shuffle in the intro going throughout the song rather than breaking the groove as they did and slowing the pulse. Not a critique, just an observation, but if you get people moving and grooving on a rocking shuffle it's generally a letdown to have them stop moving and grooving the same way after setting them up.

Fantastic post. In regards to the highlighted yellow part, I remember the liner notes for the two-fer were written by Elton John - and Elton talks about how this album blew his mind in terms of songwriting and production which then went on to influence him. I could be skewing that a bit as I haven't read those liner notes in almost 10 years, but I remember that being the gist of it. So I'd say it's totally possible that it was more influential than the sales numbers would indicate. It reminds me of artists being really hip to other Beach Boys albums that, at the time of release, were not incredibly popular (McCartney and Pet Sounds, Jim Morrison and Wild Honey, and this current example of Elton John and CATPs). Seems like many artists had their ears dialed into what The Beach Boys were doing regardless of popular opinion - whether for inspiration or just for the enjoyment of it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 04, 2020, 02:14:11 PM
Fab - Sail On, Sailor is another one to play for people that blows their mind when they find out it’s the Beach Boys...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: urbanite on December 04, 2020, 04:51:08 PM
Reminds me that Tom Petty wrote something for the liner notes for the album Holland.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 04, 2020, 08:44:43 PM

C-man, were Ricky/Blondie, and Carl chiefly the ones who worked on the mixing and production on this tune?

In the CATP/Holland twofer liner notes, Ricky is credited as the producer on the two Blondie/Ricky tunes. It's been said (by David Leaf, who got it from the 1974 BBC radio series on The Beach Boys) that the album was finished by Ricky and Blondie in one studio (likely The Village), Dennis and Daryl in another (likely Sunset Sound), and Carl, Al, and Mike in a third (probably the studio at Brian's). They were in a hurry to finish it , so I think that's how it was mixed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 04, 2020, 08:52:48 PM
That makes sense. The album sounds very disconnected. The songs for the most part are excellent, but they just don't flow together nicely. It's basically some Beach Boys songs, some Flame songs. They got it right on Holland though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on December 04, 2020, 09:34:53 PM
I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


I think your points are valid but at the same time:
- the audience for Feel Flows is already niche, and I'm sure a selling point of "previously unreleased original stereo mix, like the producers intended" would appeal to that niche. Compare to the Big Star Third box or Ramones boxes... They have several different album mixes so it's not unheard of, and would at the very least provide an interesting comparison
- no decoder would be necessary, the decoded version would be printed on disc; no surround setup or quad needed
- by the sounds of the samples I heard, I agree that earlier generation tapes could be turned into some fantastic remixes

It's certainly not a hill to die on, but at the same time, if there ever was a time to get it out there, this is it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on December 04, 2020, 10:46:49 PM

I’d also express the opinion that Sunflower  wasn’t successful commercially primarily because The Beach Boys were the uncoolest band in the universe at that time. Nothing to do with the drums. 


That's it exactly, at least in the United States of America. Back in 1970, if Sunflower had been released exactly as recorded, but the artists were listed as Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, the album would have gone straight to number one.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 05, 2020, 05:16:14 AM

I’d also express the opinion that Sunflower  wasn’t successful commercially primarily because The Beach Boys were the uncoolest band in the universe at that time. Nothing to do with the drums. 


That's it exactly, at least in the United States of America. Back in 1970, if Sunflower had been released exactly as recorded, but the artists were listed as Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, the album would have gone straight to number one.

Yep, and knowing this it really makes one sympathize with Brian's idea for wanting to change the band name to "The Beach"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 05, 2020, 05:20:10 AM
Fab - Sail On, Sailor is another one to play for people that blows their mind when they find out it’s the Beach Boys...

I also remember blowing some minds when I played 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree' for some people...it was so nice to hear those sample tracks from AllMusic that included the instrumental for 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree' - I am praying that we get an a cappella of the coda somewhere in the FF set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 05, 2020, 07:59:38 AM

C-man, were Ricky/Blondie, and Carl chiefly the ones who worked on the mixing and production on this tune?

In the CATP/Holland twofer liner notes, Ricky is credited as the producer on the two Blondie/Ricky tunes. It's been said (by David Leaf, who got it from the 1974 BBC radio series on The Beach Boys) that the album was finished by Ricky and Blondie in one studio (likely The Village), Dennis and Daryl in another (likely Sunset Sound), and Carl, Al, and Mike in a third (probably the studio at Brian's). They were in a hurry to finish it , so I think that's how it was mixed.


Thanks c-man.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 05, 2020, 08:11:58 AM

...I'm sure a selling point of "previously unreleased original stereo mix, like the producers intended"...

Thing is though, as Mr. Desper would certainly point out - the original stereo mixes ARE as the producers intended! :) Any new stereo remix would be for a different purpose, such as to serve as a compliment to the original, not as a replacement, and therefore should be marketed as such.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 05, 2020, 08:16:29 AM
That makes sense. The album sounds very disconnected. The songs for the most part are excellent, but they just don't flow together nicely. It's basically some Beach Boys songs, some Flame songs. They got it right on Holland though.

Yes, and Carl told Geoffrey Himes in 1982:  "I thought Carl & The Passions should have been three separate albums. Blondie and Ricky were going one direction that sounded a lot like The Band or Stevie Winwood. I thought "Marcella" and "Mess Of Help", two of Brian's best tunes ever, were another direction. If we had done eight tunes like "Marcella", it could have been a great rock album, almost a folk-rock album. I think Dennis' "Cuddle Up" was great; that direction could have been a real romantic side to an album. I wish Brian had been strong enough to produce the record, because it could have an ass-kicking, great record."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on December 05, 2020, 11:04:18 AM

...I'm sure a selling point of "previously unreleased original stereo mix, like the producers intended"...

Thing is though, as Mr. Desper would certainly point out - the original stereo mixes ARE as the producers intended! :) Any new stereo remix would be for a different purpose, such as to serve as a compliment to the original, not as a replacement, and therefore should be marketed as such.

"Previously unreleased alternate mix that the producers would have preferred to have been released at the time"?  :)

I think there are quotes in the Desper thread about Carl wanting the public to hear what they were hearing in the studio, so that's what I meant by "intended". See also the use of "original intention" from the study videos. Those aren't remixes, which would be a third (and new) thing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on December 05, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺


So do i, and EVEN a certain Drummer called John Bonham loved the Drum sound on CATP


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 05, 2020, 10:09:31 PM
I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

I think the balance of the mixes would be more due to Carl & Brian’s sensibilities rather than Desper’s. Also, drums further back in the mix work better in multi-layered productions like Sunflower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 06, 2020, 05:49:01 AM
I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺


So do i, and EVEN a certain Drummer called John Bonham loved the Drum sound on CATP

Cool...is there a particular interview you can reference? That might be fun to read!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on December 07, 2020, 07:16:18 AM
"Previously unreleased alternate mix that WE THINK the producers would have preferred to have been released at the time"

works as long as WE remains unidentified



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 08, 2020, 05:38:36 AM
"Here She comes" has such a cool groove. And the intro is a favorite Beach Boys moment of mine.

A fun game to play with this song:

Put this song on for your friends and ask them what band it is.  Unless they've heard it before they'll never guess correctly. 

The Ricky/Blondie sound was a radical departure from what the Beach Boys had been doing and I really dug these guys.  They absolutely gave the band, who had been waning in popularity, some much-needed street cred.  Especially  when it came to their live shows.  It's too bad they didn't stay within the group long enough to really meld their sound with the rest of the band.  I would have welcomed another album with them after Holland.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 08, 2020, 08:19:08 AM
That sounds like a similar thing I actually did on the radio once. We were doing some kind of giveaway at the station (format; modern rock, and this was circa 1997), and we were told just come up with a creative way to give away the prizes. So I played "Funky Pretty" off the In Concert album and said to win, you had to correctly identify the group. People called in and guessed Survivor, I think the Rolling Stones, and a bunch of others that I don't remember that were way off. NOBODY guessed it until I said, "Here, I'll play a few seconds of another song on the album" and switched to "Help Me, Rhonda."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 08, 2020, 12:57:23 PM

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.



It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 08, 2020, 01:45:51 PM

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.



It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 08, 2020, 02:47:06 PM

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.



It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Yep.

And as soon as I heard about Bob Dylan's catalog being worth 300 million bucks, I instantly thought about what members of the Beach Boys must have thought of that, when imagining how much their catalog would've been worth had Murry not sold them out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 08, 2020, 03:30:46 PM
The Brother years onwards is still a valuable commodity - not like 1961-1968-9, but surely more valuable than a hell of a lot of other artists best years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 08, 2020, 08:44:50 PM

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega



Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.



It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Yep.

And as soon as I heard about Bob Dylan's catalog being worth 300 million bucks, I instantly thought about what members of the Beach Boys must have thought of that, when imagining how much their catalog would've been worth had Murry not sold them out.


I’m surprised it didn’t sell for more to be honest. And I haven’t listened to a lot of Dylan’s stuff, but the way that people talk about him, I’d think at least $500M.

The Brother years onwards is still a valuable commodity - not like 1961-1968-9, but surely more valuable than a hell of a lot of other artists best years.

I think we all agree with you, thetojo, but who knows how many outside of us hardcore fans - especially publishing companies - feel that way or even have listened to this material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 09, 2020, 06:17:57 AM
That sounds like a similar thing I actually did on the radio once. We were doing some kind of giveaway at the station (format; modern rock, and this was circa 1997), and we were told just come up with a creative way to give away the prizes. So I played "Funky Pretty" off the In Concert album and said to win, you had to correctly identify the group. People called in and guessed Survivor, I think the Rolling Stones, and a bunch of others that I don't remember that were way off. NOBODY guessed it until I said, "Here, I'll play a few seconds of another song on the album" and switched to "Help Me, Rhonda."

Haha nice.  Unfortunately in this day and age with the advent of smartphones, it's a little harder to play that game without someone easily cheating.  But it's remarkable how drastic the sound of the band had changed at that time.   


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on December 09, 2020, 08:40:37 AM
Had a listen to "Here She Comes" and now all I hear is how the drums are so loud...never noticed it before.....Thanks a lot guys   >:( ;D >:(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 10, 2020, 06:14:14 AM
Had a listen to "Here She Comes" and now all I hear is how the drums are so loud...never noticed it before.....Thanks a lot guys   >:( ;D >:(

Yeah, and the lead vocals - especially Ricky's lines - are not loud enough!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on December 10, 2020, 11:35:00 AM
Next week??!! 😀👍

https://youtu.be/hV4LC2obhsA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 10, 2020, 12:10:42 PM
"Speculation." My guess is December 16, based on the "November 16" date that was on that AllMusic site...probably meant December.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 10, 2020, 04:01:18 PM
"Speculation." My guess is December 16, based on the "November 16" date that was on that AllMusic site...probably meant December.

It's not a Friday though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on December 10, 2020, 04:23:30 PM
"Speculation." My guess is December 16, based on the "November 16" date that was on that AllMusic site...probably meant December.
It must come out on a Friday, so that leaves either December 18 or December 25.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 11, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Why "must" it come out on a Friday???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 11, 2020, 10:46:19 AM
Why "must" it come out on a Friday???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Release_Day


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 11, 2020, 10:56:34 AM
"Speculation." My guess is December 16, based on the "November 16" date that was on that AllMusic site...probably meant December.
It must come out on a Friday, so that leaves either December 18 or December 25.
Agreed.  Something should drop next Friday just like in previous years, even if it's just a few tracks again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on December 12, 2020, 11:07:03 AM
Based on a statement in the new esq it appears that there will be some kind of download only soon but the feel flows box will be next year (no announced date yet)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 14, 2020, 08:02:01 PM
Had a dream I bought the box set last night

Thats how bad I want it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on December 15, 2020, 08:32:44 AM
I had the exact same dream except I was totally naked.
I really don't know what it says about me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 15, 2020, 10:29:59 AM
I had the exact same dream except I was totally naked.
I really don't know what it says about me.

You've clearly got H.E.L.P. Is On The Way on the mind...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on December 15, 2020, 04:52:13 PM
I had the exact same dream except I was totally naked.
I really don't know what it says about me.

You've clearly got H.E.L.P. Is On The Way on the mind...

I’d love just once to see you, I’d love just once to see you, I’d love just once to see you in the....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 16, 2020, 06:44:14 AM
Based on a statement in the new esq it appears that there will be some kind of download only soon but the feel flows box will be next year (no announced date yet)

If the thing is basically done and completed, hopefully an official announcement and release date will come soon. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 16, 2020, 08:35:32 AM
Based on a statement in the new esq it appears that there will be some kind of download only soon but the feel flows box will be next year (no announced date yet)

If the thing is basically done and completed, hopefully an official announcement and release date will come soon.  
A release date would have to leak out in the next few months prior to the official announcement.  I would think they are preparing interviews with different magazines and websites to promote the box which would mean we are looking around May or June for a release with the official press release a good 2-3 months prior to that.  All just personal guesses based on many prior releases.  This is too important of a release to not promote.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on December 16, 2020, 10:45:32 AM
Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 16, 2020, 11:04:09 AM
Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.


It's about time to hear great news, I'm so glad to hear that. More than anything, I sure hope some level of interpersonal BS between the camps can be resolved.

Thanks Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on December 16, 2020, 12:30:53 PM
Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.

Wonderful news Howie! Looking forward to it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 16, 2020, 02:01:21 PM
Howie, it's about time we got some good news in this whole world. Especially knowing that it will add some music to your day, our day, in fact everyone's day. But this long wait wasn't all bad, as I got to know the woman, Deirdre, who was telling me she had tears in the morning, when she awoke to hear that the Feel Flows set had faced another set-back. Yes, the long wait seemed to take forever, and many people had been quoted as saying, "all I wanna do is get my hands on this set, put it on the player, sit at my window and drink a glass of cool, cool water, despite it being winter-time". On behalf of everyone here, may we send you our sweet love in keeping us updated on this eagerly awaited box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 16, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.


Awesome!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on December 16, 2020, 02:41:01 PM
Howie - I will leave cookies and milk for you on Christmas Eve!  You are our Santa!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on December 16, 2020, 08:09:06 PM
 :happydance


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 17, 2020, 09:10:36 AM
Thanks for the update, Howie!! Can’t wait!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 17, 2020, 01:00:48 PM


Anyone in Japan, Australia or NZ have any news to share with us?



BTW, the 1969 copyright release seems to be gone from Spotify. Does anyone still see it?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pudge104 on December 17, 2020, 01:10:05 PM


Anyone in Japan, Australia or NZ have any news to share with us?



BTW, the 1969 copyright release seems to be gone from Spotify. Does anyone still see it?



There is nothing on the NZ iTunes site and yes, 1969 is gone from everywhere as far as I can tell.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on December 17, 2020, 02:23:41 PM
Definitely strange about the 1969 ep being removed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on December 17, 2020, 02:27:32 PM
Gone on Apple Music in Sweden as well


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on December 17, 2020, 03:09:32 PM

Definitely strange about the 1969 ep being removed.


We could probably assume that those tracks will be included in the upcoming (?) 2020 digital release.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 17, 2020, 03:26:27 PM
Just about every place I could think of is missing last year's triple-play, including qobuz's French store.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 17, 2020, 05:27:00 PM
Shaded out here in the States on Spotify.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 18, 2020, 06:55:31 AM
On Amazon Prime there is a live album entitled "It's About Time" with 18.12.2020 release date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 18, 2020, 07:03:08 AM
On Amazon Prime there is a live album entitled "It's About Time" with 18.12.2020 release date.

Do you have a link to that?? I checked, and the only recent thing I'm seeing is that Christmas With The Beach Boys title...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 18, 2020, 07:07:16 AM
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08QJNFXQ7?ref_=dm_mo_retail_store_shop


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 18, 2020, 07:34:39 AM
That looks to be one of the grey-market radio broadcast releases that has nothing to do with Capitol or BRI.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on December 18, 2020, 08:36:07 AM
On Amazon Prime there is a live album entitled "It's About Time" with 18.12.2020 release date.

Do you have a link to that?? I checked, and the only recent thing I'm seeing is that Christmas With The Beach Boys title...
terrible sound, the boot I owned 20 + years ago...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 18, 2020, 08:39:48 AM
Yeah, definitely not authorized, unless The Beach Boys are now on a label called Digital Opium. :)  Sounds pretty decent though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on December 18, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
It's the filmore east show that circulates on various other grey market releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 18, 2020, 12:42:55 PM
I'm in Australia  - Saturday morning now, and I'm not seeing anything new. >:(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 18, 2020, 01:18:46 PM
Yeah there won't be anything. They sent an email earlier with no mention of this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 18, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
Who's "they"??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on December 18, 2020, 04:47:58 PM
On Amazon Prime there is a live album entitled "It's About Time" with 18.12.2020 release date.

Looking for that one I ran into this interesting page.

https://igames.dk/page/artist/The%20Beach%20Boys?currency=USD


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 18, 2020, 05:57:59 PM
Who's "they"??

The Beach Boys email list.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on December 18, 2020, 06:38:29 PM
Did the I'm Going Your Way release not come out in late December last year? It's possible it's still coming and they just didn't want it to drop on the same day as McCartney III...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 18, 2020, 08:08:45 PM
It came out on December 27.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on December 19, 2020, 03:17:13 PM
Over at the EH forum, titles of approximately 100 tracks from the set were discovered using the ISRC code. Some amazing titles!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 19, 2020, 11:13:50 PM
Over at the EH forum, titles of approximately 100 tracks from the set were discovered using the ISRC code. Some amazing titles!

I’m sure if given a credit for his/her hard work and patience sorting through the titles it wouldn’t be a problem posting here.

Nice job hidlive! 👍👏

(mods..delete if required)

hidlive posted

WARNING: BIG WALL OF TEXT

Hey guess what? Found some cool titles on a copyright site!

If you go to repsearch.ppluk.com/ and search up The Beach Boys, you'll find over 100 tracks listed with 2020 dates! And they have time lengths attatched!!! Here's the full list, in order of ISRC prefix:

Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [3:14]
It’s About Time [0:50]
San Miguel [2:34]
Good Time [2:56]
Carnival (Over The Waves) / Sobra Las Olas [1:34]
Susie Cincinnati [3:02]
I Just Got My Pay [2:43]
Soulful Old Man Sunshine [3:14]
I’m Goin’ Your Way [2:24]
This Whole World [1:41]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:27]
Our Sweet Love [1:00]
Slip On Through [3:25]
This Whole World [3:11]
Add Some Music To Your Day [4:35]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:30]
Got To Know The Woman [2:55]
Deirdre [3:35]
It’s About Time [2:53]
Tears In The Morning [4:13]
All I Wanna Do [3:46]
All I Wanna Do [2:58]
Forever [2:59]
Forever [2:52]
Our Sweet Love [2:39]
At My Window [2:51]
Cool, Cool Water [6:26]
Loop De Loop (Flip Flop Flyin’ In An Aeroplane) [2:49]
San Miguel [2:59]
Good Time [4:27]
When Girls Get Together [1:51]
Susie Cincinnati [3:04]
Back Home [2:23]
Sunflower Promo [1:00]
This Whole World [1:05]
Big Sur [2:36]
(Wouldn’t It Be Nice To) Live Again [6:53]
Seasons In The Sun [3:30]
Old Movie (Cuddle Up) [3:38]
Sound Of Free [2:22]
My Solution [3:44]
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way [2:31]
Surf’s Up Promo [1:02]
Don’t Go Near The Water [2:42]
Long Promised Road [3:40]
A Day In The Life Of A Tree [0:35]
Good Time [0:19]
Don’t Go Near The Water [3:41]
Long Promised Road [4:16]
Take A Load Off Your Feet [2:29]
Disney Girls (1957) [4:17]
Student Demonstration Time [3:46]
Feel Flows [5:02]
Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) [2:43]
A Day In The Life Of A Tree [2:54]
‘Til I Die [1:56]
‘Til I Die [2:36]
’Til I Die [4:47]
Surf’s Up, Pt. 1 [1:41]
Surf’s Up [4:08]
Surf’s Up [4:05]
Sweet And Bitter [2:33]
Won’t You Tell Me [2:01]
Won’t You Tell Me [2:54]
Settle Down (Sound Of Free) [2:17]
Medley: All Of My Love / Ecology [5:06]
Before [2:26]
You Never Give Me Your Money [0:40]
Hawaiian Dream [4:34]
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian / God Only Knows [2:47]
I’ve Got A Friend [2:28]
Feel Flows [0:35]
Disney Girls [0:36]
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [2:46]
Riot In Cell Block #9 [3:31]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:22]
Take A Load Off Your Feet [2:26]
It’s About Time [4:24]
Susie Cincinnati [2:42]
Back Home [3:29]
Student Demonstration Time [4:44]
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [2:44]
Celebrate The News [2:34]
It’s Natural [2:35]
Awake [3:44]
Walkin’ [2:44]
San Miguel [1:00]
Baby Baby ;3:15]
My Solution [3:43
Marcella [3:29]
‘Til I Die [2:11]
Sunflower Promo [1:02]
You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone [3:35]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on December 19, 2020, 11:45:39 PM
Wow! I would expect more too, as that certainly isn’t 5CDs worth, or even4CDs including the two main albums on 1CD.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on December 20, 2020, 12:42:03 AM
More than heard here (64 titles).

https://youtu.be/_KZcSn-Ybjw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2020, 12:52:14 AM
I always thought that "Baby Baby" wasn't recorded. I hope one day to hear the studio version of "I've Got A Friend".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on December 20, 2020, 02:53:19 AM
I always thought that "Baby Baby" wasn't recorded. I hope one day to hear the studio version of "I've Got A Friend".


That would be a long time dream for a lot of people (me included). But if nothing new has been found, the studio version is without vocals.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 20, 2020, 07:57:34 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 20, 2020, 08:58:09 AM
BTW, for what it's worth, at least ONE sample is still online -- the entry was removed from AllMusic, but the clips must still be online: https://rovimusic.rovicorp.com/playback.mp3?c=lC9pxyb9Lf858OXBxCItTlWnbEN5fCjifro6xhIBuB4%3D&f=I


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 20, 2020, 11:58:22 AM
I could easily be missing something, but I'm not seeing anything here that is known to be (or could be construed to be) Dennis's HUBBA HUBBA material. Is it possible that they are waiting 'til 2021 to post the ultra-rare stuff?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 20, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 20, 2020, 01:10:01 PM
"It's a New Day" is from the Holland era, so I doubt it'd be considered for the box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 20, 2020, 01:16:24 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on December 20, 2020, 01:46:21 PM
I always thought that "Baby Baby" wasn't recorded. I hope one day to hear the studio version of "I've Got A Friend".


That would be a long time dream for a lot of people (me included). But if nothing new has been found, the studio version is without vocals.

Alan Boyd's mention of the track many years ago described Dennis' vocal on Baby Baby. I've Got a Friend is apparently still just the backing track.



Yeah, I forgot to delete the "Baby, baby" part in the quote. I was only talking about "I've got a Friend". Sorry for any confusion.





"It's a New Day" is from the Holland era, so I doubt it'd be considered for the box.

It isn't. July 1971, Blondie's vocal added slightly later.


I believe you are thinking of "Hard Times", 37!ws.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on December 20, 2020, 02:34:17 PM
No, I was definitely thinking of "It's a New Day," BECAUSE OF Blondie's vocal. Just didn't know that part of it is from '71.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 21, 2020, 06:27:19 AM
Do we know for sure when Blondie's vocal was added to "It's A New Day"? While true he wasn't an official Beach Boy until early '72, and the track was cut in the summer of '71, isn't it possible Dennis hired him to sing it anyway, since it was being pitched as a commercial jingle?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 21, 2020, 06:39:39 AM
Do we know for sure when Blondie's vocal was added to "It's A New Day"? While true he wasn't an official Beach Boy until early '72, and the track was cut in the summer of '71, isn't it possible Dennis hired him to sing it anyway, since it was being pitched as a commercial jingle?

Were the Flame in the US around then and is it known when they were recording their second LP with Carl? I'm wobbly on my Flame timeline.

Howie said on here once that Blondie told him his 'audition' BB recording was playing bass on Student Demonstration Time (is there a session tape to verify that?), which could set a precedent for doing other studio things before joining the group.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 21, 2020, 06:43:28 AM
Do we know for sure when Blondie's vocal was added to "It's A New Day"? While true he wasn't an official Beach Boy until early '72, and the track was cut in the summer of '71, isn't it possible Dennis hired him to sing it anyway, since it was being pitched as a commercial jingle?

Were the Flame in the US around then and is it known when they were recording their second LP with Carl? I'm wobbly on my Flame timeline.

Howie said on here once that Blondie told him his 'audition' BB recording was playing bass on Student Demonstration Time (is there a session tape to verify that?), which could set a precedent for doing other studio things before joining the group.

I believe The Flame moved to the U.S. sometime in '69, and their first LP was released in 1970. "SDT" was cut in December of '70, I believe (no, I've never heard that session tape). Blondie moved back to South Africa for a few months after the breakup of The Flame, so probably late '71-early '72. Timeline-wise, he definitely could have recorded the vocal for "It's A New Day" when it was tracked or shortly thereafter.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on December 21, 2020, 08:41:09 AM
No, I was definitely thinking of "It's a New Day," BECAUSE OF Blondie's vocal. Just didn't know that part of it is from '71.


My bad! I alway mix them up when talking about them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on December 21, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Just want to say I'm dying to hear a clean version of Won't You Tell Me. For all of Murray's faults, he was a darn good songwriter.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 21, 2020, 11:22:47 AM
Can I suggest to those marketing this boxset to actually come out and make an announcement. If it is left until next year it is likely to be swamped by this...The Beatles ‘Get Back’ movie and inevitable soundtrack.

Sneak peak released yesterday. It’s going to be BIG!

https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 21, 2020, 01:11:14 PM
Can I suggest to those marketing this boxset to actually come out and make an announcement. If it is left until next year it is likely to be swamped by this...The Beatles ‘Get Back’ movie and inevitable soundtrack.

Sneak peak released yesterday. It’s going to be BIG!

https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE

:lol Like an announcement now will matter if Feel Flows is coming out in say May.  I am sure they want to wait until the magazine covers and interviews are ready, as well as other promotional things going on at once.  You just want an announcement because you can't wait for news! :-D And I wouldn't disagree with you - what harm can an announcement bring now?  But we already have had an announcement - Howie says it's coming out soon.  Yes, Get Back will be huge.  But what's the alternative - release it a year later?  What if they release Rubber Soul and Revolver boxsets (which are likely coming soon thereafter)?  The BB will be fine.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on December 21, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
Can I suggest to those marketing this boxset to actually come out and make an announcement. If it is left until next year it is likely to be swamped by this...The Beatles ‘Get Back’ movie and inevitable soundtrack.

Sneak peak released yesterday. It’s going to be BIG!

https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE

:lol Like an announcement now will matter if Feel Flows is coming out in say May.  I am sure they want to wait until the magazine covers and interviews are ready, as well as other promotional things going on at once.  You just want an announcement because you can't wait for news! :-D And I wouldn't disagree with you - what harm can an announcement bring now?  But we already have had an announcement - Howie says it's coming out soon.  Yes, Get Back will be huge.  But what's the alternative - release it a year later?  What if they release Rubber Soul and Revolver boxsets (which are likely coming soon thereafter)?  The BB will be fine.

Speaking of which, look what will be coming out for those who dig the Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocEGvQ10OE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocEGvQ10OE)

Not sure if the Beach Boys were ever recorded like this, would've been interesting to see. No question that the Beatles were quite the personalities compared to the Beach Boys though  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Phlip on December 21, 2020, 04:49:40 PM
Just want to say I'm dying to hear a clean version of Won't You Tell Me. For all of Murray's faults, he was a darn good songwriter.

My impression hearing the Brian & Carl version of "Won't You Tell Me" (with Rick Henn's lead vocal erased) is that those are two uninspired guys who have absolutely no interest in recording that song. Doing it as as favor to Murry sounds like the most logical circumstance.

Of course that was just after the Beach Boys finished recording the Surf's Up album and did Good Vibrations from Central Park, and so WYTM almost feels like it's from another time and place.

In fact, with Dennis Wilson co-producing the track at about the same time he recorded "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again," WYTM actually might have fit better on a 1971-72 Dennis Wilson album (if it had happened).   

So given the end result, the Rick Henn lead is the definitive version as far as I'm concerned. 

It is kind of interesting, though, that the Beach Boys were apparently at least somewhat open to recording songs whose origin was from outside the group, with two Don Goldberg songs ("Sweet and Bitter" & "In the Country") and a Rick Henn song ("Won't You Tell Me") at least attempted (to one extent or another) by the Beach Boys around that time. Perhaps that made it easier for all of them to accept the idea of Blondie & Ricky contributing songs to C&TP and becoming members of the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 22, 2020, 02:24:52 AM
Speaking of which, look what will be coming out for those who dig the Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocEGvQ10OE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocEGvQ10OE)

Not sure if the Beach Boys were ever recorded like this, would've been interesting to see. No question that the Beatles were quite the personalities compared to the Beach Boys though  ::)

Should be a fun film.  Looking forward to it.  You know, the coolest personality of 'em all was George Martin.  There he is in those clips, riding out peak hippie in Brylcreem & shirt-and-tie, making no effort to be anyone other than George Martin.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 22, 2020, 03:20:41 AM

It is kind of interesting, though, that the Beach Boys were apparently at least somewhat open to recording songs whose origin was from outside the group, with two Don Goldberg songs ("Sweet and Bitter" & "In the Country") and a Rick Henn song ("Won't You Tell Me") at least attempted (to one extent or another) by the Beach Boys around that time. Perhaps that made it easier for all of them to accept the idea of Blondie & Ricky contributing songs to C&TP and becoming members of the band.

I'd add Seasons in the Sun to that category, they even let Terry Jacks produce it!

Not disagreeing with anything you said, just worth noting that Out in the Country is primarily a Brian song, so it's a little different to those others.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on December 22, 2020, 06:49:31 AM

It is kind of interesting, though, that the Beach Boys were apparently at least somewhat open to recording songs whose origin was from outside the group, with two Don Goldberg songs ("Sweet and Bitter" & "In the Country") and a Rick Henn song ("Won't You Tell Me") at least attempted (to one extent or another) by the Beach Boys around that time. Perhaps that made it easier for all of them to accept the idea of Blondie & Ricky contributing songs to C&TP and becoming members of the band.

I'd add Seasons in the Sun to that category, they even let Terry Jacks produce it!

Not disagreeing with anything you said, just worth noting that Out in the Country is primarily a Brian song, so it's a little different to those others.

And soulful Old Man Shunshine where Rick produced and co-wrote.  My impression is that they were desperate for a hit to rejuvenate their career - this is when they were playing to half empty music venues - and were more than willing to give outside producers and writers a shot.  If the Terry Jacks version of Seasons in the Sun was a hit, I suspect the Beach Boys version would have been a hit as well, although perhaps released under a pseudonym.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 22, 2020, 02:50:06 PM
Can I suggest to those marketing this boxset to actually come out and make an announcement. If it is left until next year it is likely to be swamped by this...The Beatles ‘Get Back’ movie and inevitable soundtrack.

Sneak peak released yesterday. It’s going to be BIG!

https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE

:lol Like an announcement now will matter if Feel Flows is coming out in say May.  I am sure they want to wait until the magazine covers and interviews are ready, as well as other promotional things going on at once.  You just want an announcement because you can't wait for news! :-D And I wouldn't disagree with you - what harm can an announcement bring now?  But we already have had an announcement - Howie says it's coming out soon.  Yes, Get Back will be huge.  But what's the alternative - release it a year later?  What if they release Rubber Soul and Revolver boxsets (which are likely coming soon thereafter)?  The BB will be fine.

I could easily see the reason (if not THE reason, then perhaps A reason, one of several different reasons) why the box is getting pushed out 6+ months into the new year could be to distance Mike's 2020 actions and Trump/"BBs" brand commingling in the public's minds with some time passing.

This includes, in my estimation, why there's no marketing happening in an official capacity at this point right now. Those marketing folks KNOW that they want to get the FF box some space from those events; marketing people may drop the ball sometimes, but they're also well aware of Mike's reputation and the brand name taking a beating this year. All a marketing person has to do is simply see what happens in the comments the moment there's a Beach Boys post on social media by any major news outlet.  It's not rocket science, and the marketing person can be of marginal talent to see this clearly. It'd be obvious even to an unpaid marketing intern.  

Whether or not someone reading this messageboard likes Trump or despises him, the fact is that Mike got a TON of pushback from fans (particularly the type of fans who'd be most interested in a '70-'71 era box set, and the type of music publications who'd be interested in that psychedelia type era), he got a TON of bad press, and some space and distance from that can only be a good thing for the box. That's not a politically-driven opinion of mine, it's a simple fact and not debatable.  

If the FF box had come out the week after that Trump fundraiser show, the press coverage the box would get would have been a different thing entirely than it will be 6 months from now, there is no doubt in my mind of that.  People won't completely forget Mike's actions 6 months from now, and his reputation won't magically become great, but the Trump/ "BBs" association and level of vitriol over that will almost certainly become less of an acute thing. Now all Mike's gotta do between today and the release of FF is just stop himself from doing a crap collab called "Shitty Blues" with Eric Clapton and Van Morrison.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 22, 2020, 04:41:36 PM
I personally think its baffling that capitol haven't even put out a press release to acknowledge the box sets existence. Thats usually done a good few months before hand to build up some excitement.  Then again it is Capitol records and they're not great at marketing or promotion


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on December 23, 2020, 08:32:20 AM
I suppose that they simply haven't settled on a definitive release date and that's why there hasn't been any sort of promotion until now. It will come.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on December 23, 2020, 08:36:15 AM
I personally think its baffling that capitol haven't even put out a press release to acknowledge the box sets existence. Thats usually done a good few months before hand to build up some excitement.  Then again it is Capitol records and they're not great at marketing or promotion
Seems pretty industry standard to me.  I can think of many releases that were only announced 8 weeks out.  You'd think with social media available they could create a buzz long before something is slated to come out.  Kind of like... oh I don't know - The Beatles Get Back? 

In other news King Crimson dropped the complete sessions for their Lizard album from 1970 this week.  They said they had to do it to renew the copyrights after 50 years.  They released a 26 CD mega box for their debut album and 1969 concerts recently, and dumped the entire sessions for their two 1970 albums.  Come on BB - your 1969-70 material is next. ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 23, 2020, 09:58:09 AM
And this is what I said last page. Howies  updates have been great, but they do not qualify as an ‘announcement’. The Beatles ‘Get Back’ also has no release date, but Peter Jackson raises the interest level of the project with a teaser. Just saying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 23, 2020, 10:08:53 AM
Can I suggest to those marketing this boxset to actually come out and make an announcement. If it is left until next year it is likely to be swamped by this...The Beatles ‘Get Back’ movie and inevitable soundtrack.

Sneak peak released yesterday. It’s going to be BIG!

https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE

:lol Like an announcement now will matter if Feel Flows is coming out in say May.  I am sure they want to wait until the magazine covers and interviews are ready, as well as other promotional things going on at once.  You just want an announcement because you can't wait for news! :-D And I wouldn't disagree with you - what harm can an announcement bring now?  But we already have had an announcement - Howie says it's coming out soon.  Yes, Get Back will be huge.  But what's the alternative - release it a year later?  What if they release Rubber Soul and Revolver boxsets (which are likely coming soon thereafter)?  The BB will be fine.

I could easily see the reason (if not THE reason, then perhaps A reason, one of several different reasons) why the box is getting pushed out 6+ months into the new year could be to distance Mike's 2020 actions and Trump/"BBs" brand commingling in the public's minds with some time passing.

This includes, in my estimation, why there's no marketing happening in an official capacity at this point right now. Those marketing folks KNOW that they want to get the FF box some space from those events; marketing people may drop the ball sometimes, but they're also well aware of Mike's reputation and the brand name taking a beating this year. All a marketing person has to do is simply see what happens in the comments the moment there's a Beach Boys post on social media by any major news outlet.  It's not rocket science, and the marketing person can be of marginal talent to see this clearly. It'd be obvious even to an unpaid marketing intern.  

Whether or not someone reading this messageboard likes Trump or despises him, the fact is that Mike got a TON of pushback from fans (particularly the type of fans who'd be most interested in a '70-'71 era box set, and the type of music publications who'd be interested in that psychedelia type era), he got a TON of bad press, and some space and distance from that can only be a good thing for the box. That's not a politically-driven opinion of mine, it's a simple fact and not debatable.  

If the FF box had come out the week after that Trump fundraiser show, the press coverage the box would get would have been a different thing entirely than it will be 6 months from now, there is no doubt in my mind of that.  People won't completely forget Mike's actions 6 months from now, and his reputation won't magically become great, but the Trump/ "BBs" association and level of vitriol over that will almost certainly become less of an acute thing. Now all Mike's gotta do between today and the release of FF is just stop himself from doing a crap collab called "Shitty Blues" with Eric Clapton and Van Morrison.

While I hear what you are saying, the buyers of this project are more than aware of this years  events and like me see the bigger picture. Personally, the decisions of one band member in 2020 will not influence me buying a group product that’s 50 years old. Point taken about attracting newer interest though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 23, 2020, 12:34:13 PM
A Beatles project is on a whole different level and scale compared to a BB project. Apple operates on every level very differently than BRI and the BBs.

Sure, as I said long ago, if a BB set can come out when there *isn't* also a Beatles project grabbing attention in the music mags and whatnot, that would be nice as far as getting extra attention on a BB release.

But a BB release largely won't be significantly negatively impacted by a Beatles set. We don't even know what form the Beatles project will take. It may be a film hitting theaters first, and even that's up on the air considering the state of movie theaters.

The BB set is moving along, with some huge roadblocks now miraculously cleared. I think all of these bands and entities should be getting stuff out faster when their fans are literally dying off. But having said that, everybody is doing everything they can now on this BB set and at this point a little more patience will pay off. Howie, Alan, and Mark are making this thing happen (with fan support); I strongly suspect had another team been in place, the set would have died on the vine long ago.

I'm not into cheerleading the fans or anything, but keep in mind that the fans *did* help get this set back on track. We just have to view our patience and support as the next step in helping this set happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 23, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Are we expecting any digital Xmas presents tomorrow (25th, Friday)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 23, 2020, 08:06:54 PM
Are we expecting any digital Xmas presents tomorrow (25th, Friday)?


You mean, the day AFTER tomorrow?  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 23, 2020, 09:16:22 PM
Are we expecting any digital Xmas presents tomorrow (25th, Friday)?


You mean, the day AFTER tomorrow?  :)

Well it depends where in the world you are, doesn't it.   ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on December 23, 2020, 10:35:13 PM
Somebody asked if The Beach Boys were ever filmed as The Beatles were for Get Back.  Well...  David Oppenheim filmed the Boys during The SMiLE sessions!  What a shame that the complete footage has never been found!  Or even the sound recordings!

Someone else asked why Capitol hasn't put out any teasers for Feel Flows.  Well... in the newly released video for "Little Saint Nick" there is an Easter Egg with "Feel Flows" written on a surfboard!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 24, 2020, 05:46:05 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 24, 2020, 06:03:17 AM
Somebody asked if The Beach Boys were ever filmed as The Beatles were for Get Back.  Well...  David Oppenheim filmed the Boys during The SMiLE sessions!  What a shame that the complete footage has never been found!  Or even the sound recordings!

Someone else asked why Capitol hasn't put out any teasers for Feel Flows.  Well... in the newly released video for "Little Saint Nick" there is an Easter Egg with "Feel Flows" written on a surfboard!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Easter egg...or stocking stuffer?  :) EDIT: given the timeline, Easter egg does make more sense. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on December 24, 2020, 07:24:34 AM
So I guess we've got the Rolling Stones to thank for no more annual copyright releases?
Is it midnight in NZ then?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on December 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
What are the best places to look for a possible end of year release - except for this forum of course... 😙


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on December 24, 2020, 01:31:37 PM
25th here in Aus and nothing  :'(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on December 24, 2020, 02:46:09 PM
... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

^ I'm starting to think this is in fact, what happened here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on December 24, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
I know there aren't many, if any, proper concert recordings in the archives from 1970, but thought there might be one or two.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 24, 2020, 09:13:49 PM
... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

^ I'm starting to think this is in fact, what happened here.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
I’m almost certain that was the case. We’re still getting the set so no biggie imho.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 25, 2020, 09:53:27 PM
OK, I haven't been here for a while, I'm scrolling backwards here trying to find info but it's an endless process and I'm losing patience. I heard the incredible samples on AllMusic a couple of weeks ago but apparently they were taken down or something, from the one comment I've seen, plus they were just samples, amazing as some of them were. The Surf's Up alternate or whatever was fantastic, as were quite a few others.

Can someone briefly summarize what the latest is regarding the new boxset or copyright extension release?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on December 25, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
Feel Flows set to come out in 2021 says Howie (and he seemed pretty positive so we can probs be cautiously optimistic that it won't be a slimmed down version). Looks like there's no 2020 copyright release, however, as it should have come out on the 25th if it was going to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thr33 on December 26, 2020, 06:27:13 AM
Obviously Feel Flows likely coming out in some capacity is great news. I do worry that this bodes poorly for future Copyright Extension releases.

The Sunflower and Surf's Up period has some degree of commercial and critical appeal. But what about things like Holland, Beach Boys In Concert, and Brian's Back? And what about things like So Tough, the Caribou recordings, and things after Love You? Will there be less of an incentive to release further sets that are less viable knowing what qualifies under the copyright law?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on December 26, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Obviously Feel Flows likely coming out in some capacity is great news. I do worry that this bodes poorly for future Copyright Extension releases.

The Sunflower and Surf's Up period has some degree of commercial and critical appeal. But what about things like Holland, Beach Boys In Concert, and Brian's Back? And what about things like So Tough, the Caribou recordings, and things after Love You? Will there be less of an incentive to release further sets that are less viable knowing what qualifies under the copyright law?

I could be wrong, but I don’t think we have to worry about that. Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have talked about wanting to do a Brian Is Back box. I thought the idea of an In Concert box was discussed too, and every other era would probably be done just though CE drops because of the limited demand outside us hardcore fans.

Edited to fix a typo.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on December 26, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on December 26, 2020, 04:11:32 PM
I'm not too worried - this was obviously a stopgap measure because Feel Flows ended up being delayed into '21, and they didn't want to release a bunch of material which would later be on the set anyway. It's a unique situation, we can't really make assumptions about how this will impact future releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on December 28, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.

Great news, Howie!
Thank you so much, and also Alan, Mark and everyone involved  ;D

I hope Dennis solo material is still in the final tracklist.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 28, 2020, 07:24:58 PM
Quote from: Pretty Funky link=topic=26791.msg66
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [3:14
It’s About Time [0:50]
San Miguel [2:34]
Good Time [2:56]
Carnival (Over The Waves) / Sobra Las Olas [1:34]
Susie Cincinnati [3:02]
I Just Got My Pay [2:43]
Soulful Old Man Sunshine [3:14]
I’m Goin’ Your Way [2:24]
This Whole World [1:41]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:27]
Our Sweet Love [1:00]
Slip On Through [3:25]
This Whole World [3:11]
Add Some Music To Your Day [4:35]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:30]
Got To Know The Woman [2:55]
Deirdre [3:35]
It’s About Time [2:53]
Tears In The Morning [4:13]
All I Wanna Do [3:46]
All I Wanna Do [2:58]
Forever [2:59]
Forever [2:52]
Our Sweet Love [2:39]
At My Window [2:51]
Cool, Cool Water [6:26]
Loop De Loop (Flip Flop Flyin’ In An Aeroplane) [2:49]
San Miguel [2:59]
Good Time [4:27]
When Girls Get Together [1:51]
Susie Cincinnati [3:04]
Back Home [2:23]
Sunflower Promo [1:00]
This Whole World [1:05]
Big Sur [2:36]
(Wouldn’t It Be Nice To) Live Again [6:53]
Seasons In The Sun [3:30]
Old Movie (Cuddle Up) [3:38]
Sound Of Free [2:22]
My Solution [3:44]
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way [2:31]
Surf’s Up Promo [1:02]
Don’t Go Near The Water [2:42]
Long Promised Road [3:40]
A Day In The Life Of A Tree [0:35]
Good Time [0:19]
Don’t Go Near The Water [3:41]
Long Promised Road [4:16]
Take A Load Off Your Feet [2:29]
Disney Girls (1957) [4:17]
Student Demonstration Time [3:46]
Feel Flows [5:02]
Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) [2:43]
A Day In The Life Of A Tree [2:54]
‘Til I Die [1:56]
‘Til I Die [2:36]
’Til I Die [4:47]
Surf’s Up, Pt. 1 [1:41]
Surf’s Up [4:08]
Surf’s Up [4:05]
Sweet And Bitter [2:33]
Won’t You Tell Me [2:01]
Won’t You Tell Me [2:54]
Settle Down (Sound Of Free) [2:17]
Medley: All Of My Love / Ecology [5:06]
Before [2:26]
You Never Give Me Your Money [0:40]
Hawaiian Dream [4:34]
Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian / God Only Knows [2:47]
I’ve Got A Friend [2:28]
Feel Flows [0:35]
Disney Girls [0:36]
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [2:46]
Riot In Cell Block #9 [3:31]
Add Some Music To Your Day [3:22]
Take A Load Off Your Feet [2:26]
It’s About Time [4:24]
Susie Cincinnati [2:42]
Back Home [3:29]
Student Demonstration Time [4:44]
Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) [2:44]
Celebrate The News [2:34]
It’s Natural [2:35]
Awake [3:44]
Walkin’ [2:44]
San Miguel [1:00]
Baby Baby ;3:15]
My Solution [3:43
Marcella [3:29]
‘Til I Die [2:11]
Sunflower Promo [1:02]
You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone [3:35]

What exactly is this amazing track list?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Somebody asked if The Beach Boys were ever filmed as The Beatles were for Get Back.  Well...  David Oppenheim filmed the Boys during The SMiLE sessions!  What a shame that the complete footage has never been found!  Or even the sound recordings!

Someone else asked why Capitol hasn't put out any teasers for Feel Flows.  Well... in the newly released video for "Little Saint Nick" there is an Easter Egg with "Feel Flows" written on a surfboard!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

That's really subtle and cool, Dan. The full Oppenheim footage supposedly also included a "Child is Father of the Man" session and Mike "sabotaging" a Cabinessence session. "What exactly does 'over and over, the crow cries, uncover the cornfield' mean?", perhaps? What there is of the footage supposedly wound up in a specific archive, but has never been located there, as we all know.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 28, 2020, 08:28:55 PM


What exactly is this amazing track list?

Reply..
What ‘hidive’ did was type in ‘Beach Boys’ in the site below (63 pages) and noted all the titles with a release date of 2020.


https://repsearch.ppluk.com/ars/faces/pages/audioSearch.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=q0kwsuw07_4




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 29, 2020, 06:11:40 AM
Duplicate post.  See below.   :jedi


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on December 29, 2020, 06:14:04 AM


What exactly is this amazing track list?

Reply..
What ‘hidive’ did was type in ‘Beach Boys’ in the site below (63 pages) and noted all the titles with a release date of 2020.


https://repsearch.ppluk.com/ars/faces/pages/audioSearch.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=q0kwsuw07_4




So is this the alleged Feel Flows tracklisting or just a legal rights dump?  A few weeks ago someone posted a similar tracklist of George Harrison songs (maybe for readying a big All Things Must Pass box set?) so it's anyone's guess if this is official or not. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 29, 2020, 06:50:09 AM
Delete.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2020, 08:56:23 AM
Just a quick note that this all over the news - Paul McCartney scored the number one album on the charts this week with his McCartney 3 release. That's pretty damn impressive for an artist a few years shy of 80 years old, and ultimately it shows yet again that there is a market for "legacy" artists and their new releases. And the album is basically Sir Paul by himself in the studio cutting tracks and playing all the parts. Good for him. It's a good album, and there are some very, very good songs on there, as well as some nice guitar work from Macca.

I'm just saying this too because one sales figure I heard was 25,000 units over this past holiday week were what pushed it to #1. That's not much considering Bieber or Cardi B could release pure sh*t and get 10 million streams or views in a few weeks, but for physical product sales that's all it took. And for something like a box set to reach #1 the numbers would be far, far, FAR less to accomplish that.

As thrilled as I am that things are back on track for a BB's box release, there's also the notion of releasing at the right time...and The Beatles have always had that advantage over the Beach Boys. A holiday when most of the record-buying public is locked down or restricted and craving some new music to hear and enjoy at home? That doesn't happen everyday obviously, and I hate to think such an opportunity for a deluxe set to have dropped during this same time McCartney scored a #1 against most odds was blown.

Anyway, check out McCartney III, it's a good listen...and good for Sir Paul on scoring a #1 album! If the BB's and BRI could get their sh*t together and maybe focus on this kind of thing instead of drive-in shows and when Mike is going to play shows again, the music market is as wide open as it's been in decades, ripe for the picking if the right material is out there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pudge104 on December 30, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
It actually hit #2 but still impressive.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2020, 11:53:03 AM
It actually hit #2 but still impressive.

No, it hit #1. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it did.  ;D

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/9504857/mccartney-iii-debuts-top-album-sales-chart/ (https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/9504857/mccartney-iii-debuts-top-album-sales-chart/)

https://twitter.com/PaulMcCartney/status/1343597882742550528 (https://twitter.com/PaulMcCartney/status/1343597882742550528)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on December 30, 2020, 02:56:51 PM
McCARTNEY III peaked at Number Two on the Billboard 200.
Topping another Billboard chart, while still commendable and impressive, is really just topping some other chart.

The Billboard 200 is the industry standard.

A single topping out at, say, Number Four on the Mainstream Rock Songs list -- but stalling out at Number 33 on the Hot 100 -- means the artist scored a Top 40 hit -- not a Top 10.

McCARTNEY III is a Top Two hit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Since Billboard announced the Macca #1 chart position in the article linked above, maybe there are just too many charts...well, yes there are too many but Macca did reach #1 on their top selling album chart (physical copies sold) and that's what is being reported all over the news.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 30, 2020, 03:16:20 PM
Billboard 200 counts streams on there too...the album sales charts aren’t as important any more because sales are going down for everybody (trust me, I know 🥺). So yeah, he hit #2 on the “big daddy” chart so to speak.

Either way that’s a hell of an accomplishment...I haven’t sold sh*t for my past two releases so believe me, I’m not minimizing that achievement!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 30, 2020, 03:21:43 PM
Then it must be all hype and B.S. being reported, someone should tell Paul since he's doing a celebration dance on his Twitter feed after reaching #1 on that chart.  :lol

I would too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on December 30, 2020, 04:25:38 PM
Well, he did hit #1 in the UK. Flowers In The Dirt was his last #1 there.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on December 30, 2020, 05:57:03 PM
Speaking of Billboard .. Little Saint Nick is 47 on the billboard hot 100 this week. Pretty cool


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on December 30, 2020, 07:24:03 PM
Wasn't Egypt Station a Billboard 200 No. 1?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on December 31, 2020, 06:31:47 AM
I love Paul McCartney, and while I have mixed (at best) feelings about his last two studio albums, it also has to be said that McCartney put out an EMBARRASSING amount of variants of "McCartney III" trying to push it to #1. I'd feel this way even if it was the best album he had ever made. It would still be embarrassing and frankly unbecoming. It really is *that* ridiculous.

This wasn't even the normal case of putting out a few cover variants at Target stores or something. It was an obscene amount of variants, essentially trying to get a few thousand hardcore fans to buy not two or three, but 20+ variants of the album to goose the sales chart (since the streaming numbers aren't going to do it).

When there were delays on some of the vinyl pressings, they delayed *all* version of the album an extra week so that ALL of those vinyl variants could be counted in the first week sales numbers. They added copies of the album to everything they possibly could. The sheet music songbook? Sure, add the *actual album* to that too! They also nearly *GAVE AWAY* copies on Amazon, selling digital copies in the first week for $3.99.

There were at least *TEN* vinyl variants. There were around *ELEVEN* CD variants (*not* including every bundle variant), plus a cassette. So yes, probably 1,000 hardcore fans bought up to *22* copies (or more for some swag items) of the album to help push this album as high as it got.

Here is a (probably not complete) list of variants (and this is ONLY USA variants!):


LPs

Black Standard - 602435136592
Red Third Man Records PM Site - 602435321875 (same number as UK non-Third Man Records)
Coke Bottle Clear Spotify PM Site - 602435136608
Opaque Pink Newbury Comics - 602435384719
White Indie - 602435321783
Green Target - 602435321776
Opaque Blue Barnes & Noble - 602435321820
Opaque Orange Universal - 602435384689
Opaque Yellow Beatle Fan PM Site - 602435439655
Yellow with Black Dots Third Man Records - TME707

CDs

Standard - 602435136561
Green Target - 602435136578
Songbook - 602435445939
White Deluxe - 602435513195
Blue Deluxe - 602435513201
Red Deluxe - 602435513225
Yellow Deluxe - 602435513249
White Mini-Jacket - 602435481661
Blue Mini-Jacket - 602435481869
Red Mini-Jacket - 602435481739
Yellow Mini-Jacket - 602435481784
White with Dice – 602435481432
Blue with Dice - 602435481791
Red with Dice - 602435481678
Yellow with Dice - 602435481746
White with T-Shirt - 602435481456
Blue with T-Shirt - 602435481814
Red with T-Shirt - 602435481708
Yellow with T-Shirt - 602435481753
White with Hat - 602435481463
Blue with Hat - 602435481838
Red with Hat - 602435481715
Yellow with Hat - 602435481760
White with Mask - 602435481487
Blue with Mask - 602435481845
Red with Mask - 602435481722
Yellow with Mask - 602435481777

Cassette

Smoky Tint - 602435321738

And yes, McCartney's PR team did everything they could to try to change this from a #2 album to a #1 album in the headlines by obscuring which album chart they were talking about. Even milking his hardcore collector fans *that* hard, they couldn't get it to #1 on the actual main Billboard album chart.

It's all relative of course. It's still an achievement considering the market conditions for this type of artist, where they have to rely so heavily on old fashioned physical sales to make up for far less streaming. But I can't overstate how ridiculous it has been the last few weeks and months as McCartney's team churned out as many physical variants as possible. At one point, they added four bonus tracks after a bunch of variants had been pre-ordered. But get this: They put ONE bonus track on each of four variants, meaning you had to buy FOUR copies of the CD to get all four bonus tracks. I'm pretty sure someone crunching the numbers probably realized there are packaging "completists", but then also some hardcore fans who really only collect variants with different, you know, MUSICAL CONTENT, so they hatched the one bonus-per CD with different color variant plan for that demographic of fan.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 31, 2020, 08:18:14 AM
I love Paul McCartney, and while I have mixed (at best) feelings about his last two studio albums, it also has to be said that McCartney put out an EMBARRASSING amount of variants of "McCartney III" trying to push it to #1. I'd feel this way even if it was the best album he had ever made. It would still be embarrassing and frankly unbecoming. It really is *that* ridiculous.

This wasn't even the normal case of putting out a few cover variants at Target stores or something. It was an obscene amount of variants, essentially trying to get a few thousand hardcore fans to buy not two or three, but 20+ variants of the album to goose the sales chart (since the streaming numbers aren't going to do it).

When there were delays on some of the vinyl pressings, they delayed *all* version of the album an extra week so that ALL of those vinyl variants could be counted in the first week sales numbers. They added copies of the album to everything they possibly could. The sheet music songbook? Sure, add the *actual album* to that too! They also nearly *GAVE AWAY* copies on Amazon, selling digital copies in the first week for $3.99.

There were at least *TEN* vinyl variants. There were around *ELEVEN* CD variants (*not* including every bundle variant), plus a cassette. So yes, probably 1,000 hardcore fans bought up to *22* copies (or more for some swag items) of the album to help push this album as high as it got.

Here is a (probably not complete) list of variants (and this is ONLY USA variants!):


LPs

Black Standard - 602435136592
Red Third Man Records PM Site - 602435321875 (same number as UK non-Third Man Records)
Coke Bottle Clear Spotify PM Site - 602435136608
Opaque Pink Newbury Comics - 602435384719
White Indie - 602435321783
Green Target - 602435321776
Opaque Blue Barnes & Noble - 602435321820
Opaque Orange Universal - 602435384689
Opaque Yellow Beatle Fan PM Site - 602435439655
Yellow with Black Dots Third Man Records - TME707

CDs

Standard - 602435136561
Green Target - 602435136578
Songbook - 602435445939
White Deluxe - 602435513195
Blue Deluxe - 602435513201
Red Deluxe - 602435513225
Yellow Deluxe - 602435513249
White Mini-Jacket - 602435481661
Blue Mini-Jacket - 602435481869
Red Mini-Jacket - 602435481739
Yellow Mini-Jacket - 602435481784
White with Dice – 602435481432
Blue with Dice - 602435481791
Red with Dice - 602435481678
Yellow with Dice - 602435481746
White with T-Shirt - 602435481456
Blue with T-Shirt - 602435481814
Red with T-Shirt - 602435481708
Yellow with T-Shirt - 602435481753
White with Hat - 602435481463
Blue with Hat - 602435481838
Red with Hat - 602435481715
Yellow with Hat - 602435481760
White with Mask - 602435481487
Blue with Mask - 602435481845
Red with Mask - 602435481722
Yellow with Mask - 602435481777

Cassette

Smoky Tint - 602435321738

And yes, McCartney's PR team did everything they could to try to change this from a #2 album to a #1 album in the headlines by obscuring which album chart they were talking about. Even milking his hardcore collector fans *that* hard, they couldn't get it to #1 on the actual main Billboard album chart.

It's all relative of course. It's still an achievement considering the market conditions for this type of artist, where they have to rely so heavily on old fashioned physical sales to make up for far less streaming. But I can't overstate how ridiculous it has been the last few weeks and months as McCartney's team churned out as many physical variants as possible. At one point, they added four bonus tracks after a bunch of variants had been pre-ordered. But get this: They put ONE bonus track on each of four variants, meaning you had to buy FOUR copies of the CD to get all four bonus tracks. I'm pretty sure someone crunching the numbers probably realized there are packaging "completists", but then also some hardcore fans who really only collect variants with different, you know, MUSICAL CONTENT, so they hatched the one bonus-per CD with different color variant plan for that demographic of fan.

Holy crap! That is eye-opening and mind-bogglingly ridiculous.

I remember back in 2007, the smashing pumpkins had what I believed to be an obscene amount of variants of their mediocre  "reunion" album "zeitgeist", which really felt like milking the hardcore completist fans. But this take it to the next level and beyond. :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 31, 2020, 08:24:34 AM
If McCartney's team did all of this in order to generate some headlines and chart positions, I say good for them. They figured out the current game and the way it's played, and got results. The music business is (and has been) so f**ked up in general when it comes to sales and charts that nothing really makes sense.

Look at the Billboard Top 100 singles and Top 200 album charts this week. The majority of singles in the top 20 are Christmas songs between 30-70 years old. Prior to several years ago, they never tabulated those kinds of songs in the singles chart and you never saw the Christmas classics placing that high or at all. Now since the system was changed, you have the chart that's currently on Billboard featuring artists who haven't charted in literally 50 or more years getting top-10 singles.

Is that accurate? Is it fair to have Christmas "singles" which have been in fully automated rotation for the past month, some spinning every hour on the hour, on hundreds of FM "24 hour Christmas music" formats and all-day-Christmas streams across the US having those automated spins tabulated alongside artists whose music one has to actually purchase?

Look at the "standard" Top 200 album list this week. Phil Spector's Christmas album is #12 I believe...a higher chart showing than that classic ever had when it was current. The album chart minus McCartney and 24K Goldin or some similar sh*t is loaded with classic Christmas albums. I laughed when I saw a Bobby Helms "greatest hits" album cracking the top 40, nothing against Helms but people weren't buying any hit of his in 2020 other than Jingle Bell Rock. Yet there he is on the industry standard chart with a greatest hits comp.

So is any of this mess fair or accurate? There's the debate.

But I do see McCartney in the middle of all this crap getting headlines no matter what it took, and scoring a #2 or #1 album or whatever you want to call it.

I guess my point is, if he can do it, maybe the marketing teams behind the Beach Boys catalog and even BRI should take notes and try to generate similar results if and when necessary.

Seeing McCartney celebrating the chart position of his new album is much better press than reading about an uproar over playing a trophy-hunting convention gig, you know. But I'll leave it at that.


PS to HeyJude - I could be wrong, but I think some of those variants of the "3" album you listed were also done as exclusives to get people to shop at local record stores for the holidays, the "record store day" concept applied to the holiday shopping season. I know several local shops around here were promoting some exclusive pressings to try to get customers in and buying, and with all that's going on I think that's a pretty good thing overall. I think similar to previous record store day events some of the labels coordinated with the shops and associations to do this, so it wasn't entirely a gimmick by McCartney's marketing team to spike chart numbers by pressing all those variants of his album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on December 31, 2020, 10:19:41 AM
Given how no form of release has happened for any live recordings made in 1970, am I right in understanding that as of 00:01 tonight, these recordings become public domain within the EU? Or does the fact the the original recordings have the Copyright extension, mean the live versions do as well?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on December 31, 2020, 03:08:19 PM
Given how no form of release has happened for any live recordings made in 1970, am I right in understanding that as of 00:01 tonight, these recordings become public domain within the EU? Or does the fact the the original recordings have the Copyright extension, mean the live versions do as well?

Wouldn't It Be Nice from Big Sur 70 has been available in legal form for many years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on December 31, 2020, 07:19:23 PM
I've listened to most of the Macca III tracks, and while my gut feeling is that nothing here is going to really stand the test of time like the man's best work, I still gotta say wow.  It's a hell of a collection of songs for a 78-year-old man to make.  Probably the best original work I ever heard from a musician over 75, hell, maybe 70.   If there were a "senior circuit" for popular music like they have for pro golf, Macca would be like the Tiger Woods (in his prime) of that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on January 01, 2021, 06:37:32 AM
Macca has always had that businessman side of his brain. Exploitative? Maybe. He wouldn't release all those variants though if there weren't so many people with the impulsive need to buy all of them. I was fine with a high resolution download myself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on January 01, 2021, 09:59:42 AM
Look at the "standard" Top 200 album list this week.

Indeed - The Beach Boys Christmas Album has spent the last four weeks bouncing around the lower end of the chart, being at #115 this week. I guess what you're saying here is that this is mostly down to Little Saint Nick being on rotation in supermarkets and such like.

As for McCartney III -- as someone who has only ever bothered to listen to one other McCartney album since Tug of War (that being Flaming Pie, which I only ever thought had one good song), I can say I'm very impressed with it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on January 01, 2021, 10:01:22 AM
Duplicate deleted


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on January 01, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
McCartney 3 can be purchased on cassette in 2020? Oh dear lord.
Sorry...respect for the guy has dropped a notch reading about the variants above.  :thud


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on January 01, 2021, 10:13:29 AM
McCartney 3 can be purchased on cassette in 2020? Oh dear lord.
Sorry...respect for the guy has dropped a notch reading about the variants above.  :thud

In case you aren't aware, cassettes are considered "hip" again amongst millennials (and maybe others who just like them). Hence, every Record Store Day for the past few years has seen someone of notoriety do a special "cassette-only" release. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 01, 2021, 10:30:59 AM
Given how no form of release has happened for any live recordings made in 1970, am I right in understanding that as of 00:01 tonight, these recordings become public domain within the EU? Or does the fact the the original recordings have the Copyright extension, mean the live versions do as well?

Interesting question. And what about the FF stuff that was on Allmusic a while ago? BTW, could someone please explain how the snippets ended up on a site like Allmusic - and nowhere else?

And however interesting could someone please move the McCartney stuff - isn't this thread about FF? Thx...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on January 01, 2021, 10:41:03 AM
Given how no form of release has happened for any live recordings made in 1970, am I right in understanding that as of 00:01 tonight, these recordings become public domain within the EU? Or does the fact the the original recordings have the Copyright extension, mean the live versions do as well?

Interesting question. And what about the FF stuff that was on Allmusic a while ago? BTW, could someone please explain how the snippets ended up on a site like Allmusic - and nowhere else?

And however interesting could someone please move the McCartney stuff - isn't this thread about FF? Thx...
The answers to those two questions are probably related. Other bands such as The Rolling Stones have figured out ways to "release" material to preserve copyright without actually "releasing" it, and that's probably exactly what The Beach Boys have done here due to Feel Flows now coming in 2021... which doesn't bode well for the potential of future releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on January 01, 2021, 10:52:15 AM
And however interesting could someone please move the McCartney stuff - isn't this thread about FF? Thx...

Here's a fine landing spot: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,24095.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,24095.0.html)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 01, 2021, 11:45:49 AM
Other bands such as The Rolling Stones have figured out ways to "release" material to preserve copyright without actually "releasing" it, and that's probably exactly what The Beach Boys have done here due to Feel Flows now coming in 2021... which doesn't bode well for the potential of future releases.

This begs the question, exactly what is the point of protecting copyright if there is no intention to ever release?

Is there a feeling that this unreleased stuff is more commercially viable say 60 or 65 years after it was recorded, as opposed to 50 years after?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on January 01, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
McCartney 3 can be purchased on cassette in 2020? Oh dear lord.
Sorry...respect for the guy has dropped a notch reading about the variants above.  :thud

In case you aren't aware, cassettes are considered "hip" again amongst millennials (and maybe others who just like them). Hence, every Record Store Day for the past few years has seen someone of notoriety do a special "cassette-only" release. :)

I was NOT aware.  eBay, here I come.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 01, 2021, 12:52:52 PM
I love Paul McCartney, and while I have mixed (at best) feelings about his last two studio albums, it also has to be said that McCartney put out an EMBARRASSING amount of variants of "McCartney III" trying to push it to #1. I'd feel this way even if it was the best album he had ever made. It would still be embarrassing and frankly unbecoming. It really is *that* ridiculous.

This wasn't even the normal case of putting out a few cover variants at Target stores or something. It was an obscene amount of variants, essentially trying to get a few thousand hardcore fans to buy not two or three, but 20+ variants of the album to goose the sales chart (since the streaming numbers aren't going to do it).

When there were delays on some of the vinyl pressings, they delayed *all* version of the album an extra week so that ALL of those vinyl variants could be counted in the first week sales numbers. They added copies of the album to everything they possibly could. The sheet music songbook? Sure, add the *actual album* to that too! They also nearly *GAVE AWAY* copies on Amazon, selling digital copies in the first week for $3.99.

There were at least *TEN* vinyl variants. There were around *ELEVEN* CD variants (*not* including every bundle variant), plus a cassette. So yes, probably 1,000 hardcore fans bought up to *22* copies (or more for some swag items) of the album to help push this album as high as it got.

Here is a (probably not complete) list of variants (and this is ONLY USA variants!):


LPs

Black Standard - 602435136592
Red Third Man Records PM Site - 602435321875 (same number as UK non-Third Man Records)
Coke Bottle Clear Spotify PM Site - 602435136608
Opaque Pink Newbury Comics - 602435384719
White Indie - 602435321783
Green Target - 602435321776
Opaque Blue Barnes & Noble - 602435321820
Opaque Orange Universal - 602435384689
Opaque Yellow Beatle Fan PM Site - 602435439655
Yellow with Black Dots Third Man Records - TME707

CDs

Standard - 602435136561
Green Target - 602435136578
Songbook - 602435445939
White Deluxe - 602435513195
Blue Deluxe - 602435513201
Red Deluxe - 602435513225
Yellow Deluxe - 602435513249
White Mini-Jacket - 602435481661
Blue Mini-Jacket - 602435481869
Red Mini-Jacket - 602435481739
Yellow Mini-Jacket - 602435481784
White with Dice – 602435481432
Blue with Dice - 602435481791
Red with Dice - 602435481678
Yellow with Dice - 602435481746
White with T-Shirt - 602435481456
Blue with T-Shirt - 602435481814
Red with T-Shirt - 602435481708
Yellow with T-Shirt - 602435481753
White with Hat - 602435481463
Blue with Hat - 602435481838
Red with Hat - 602435481715
Yellow with Hat - 602435481760
White with Mask - 602435481487
Blue with Mask - 602435481845
Red with Mask - 602435481722
Yellow with Mask - 602435481777

Cassette

Smoky Tint - 602435321738

And yes, McCartney's PR team did everything they could to try to change this from a #2 album to a #1 album in the headlines by obscuring which album chart they were talking about. Even milking his hardcore collector fans *that* hard, they couldn't get it to #1 on the actual main Billboard album chart.

It's all relative of course. It's still an achievement considering the market conditions for this type of artist, where they have to rely so heavily on old fashioned physical sales to make up for far less streaming. But I can't overstate how ridiculous it has been the last few weeks and months as McCartney's team churned out as many physical variants as possible. At one point, they added four bonus tracks after a bunch of variants had been pre-ordered. But get this: They put ONE bonus track on each of four variants, meaning you had to buy FOUR copies of the CD to get all four bonus tracks. I'm pretty sure someone crunching the numbers probably realized there are packaging "completists", but then also some hardcore fans who really only collect variants with different, you know, MUSICAL CONTENT, so they hatched the one bonus-per CD with different color variant plan for that demographic of fan.

It isn't uncommon for McCartney to release a number of variants of his albums.  For both New and Egypt Station he put out "deluxe" versions of these albums containing bonus tracks such as live versions of the music as well as several extra (and honestly forgettable) new tracks.  But yeah he went way overboard with this one.  Kind of fun I guess that you have a variety of flavors to choose from with this album but if you're a serious collector that has to own everything, this one is a real headache.  

As for the album itself, it's okay.  Perhaps the best song on here is the one that he wrote and recorded during the 1997 Flaming Pie sessions: "When Winter Comes".  Although it is a little jarring to hear just how much McCartney's voice has declined over the years when this track closes the album.

Going back to Feel Flows, although I am hopeful this one will sell well and get proper publicity and attention, it seems unlikely that box sets usually hit #1.  Although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.  

Look at the "standard" Top 200 album list this week.


As for McCartney III -- as someone who has only ever bothered to listen to one other McCartney album since Tug of War (that being Flaming Pie, which I only ever thought had one good song), I can say I'm very impressed with it.

If you enjoyed his latest album, you might like his Fireman album, Electric Arguments.   It's very similar in execution and also has the "one-man band" sound. 

https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k7WIBgmD0oPR6d80581lOAJX7NrFA6PfE


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on January 01, 2021, 02:12:04 PM
McCartney 3 can be purchased on cassette in 2020? Oh dear lord.
Sorry...respect for the guy has dropped a notch reading about the variants above.  :thud

In case you aren't aware, cassettes are considered "hip" again amongst millennials (and maybe others who just like them). Hence, every Record Store Day for the past few years has seen someone of notoriety do a special "cassette-only" release. :)

I was NOT aware.  eBay, here I come.  :lol

Same...Beach Boys tapes plus many others hit the dumpster during a Covid isolation clean-up. Dohhh!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 04, 2021, 12:19:42 PM
Look at the "standard" Top 200 album list this week.

Indeed - The Beach Boys Christmas Album has spent the last four weeks bouncing around the lower end of the chart, being at #115 this week. I guess what you're saying here is that this is mostly down to Little Saint Nick being on rotation in supermarkets and such like.

As for McCartney III -- as someone who has only ever bothered to listen to one other McCartney album since Tug of War (that being Flaming Pie, which I only ever thought had one good song), I can say I'm very impressed with it.

The way the charts were calculated changed massively in recent years, not just albums but singles as I mentioned earlier, and that is why you have Bing Crosby, Bobby Helms, Brenda Lee, etc. getting top-10 albums and singles around Christmas where they previously had been excluded. So it begs the question which of these "charts" is actually accurate or even worth noting?

For singles, the Billboard chart has been dominated by old Christmas hits the past few weeks. If radio airplay in the US is factored in, there are these FM stations, pre-programmed, playing 24 hours of Christmas music every day for over a month. Some classics, notably the ones which are currently dominating the top-40 Billboard singles chart, are played literally every hour on the hour. Consider that every major US city and radio market has one of these continuous holiday stations, along with those outside the metro areas doing the same thing. Multiply all those stations times 50 states, and there are literally hundreds if not thousands of stations spinning Bing Crosby and Andy Williams hourly. Of course the airplay on radio alone would bring massive totals for those songs.

Then factor in how many streams there are online spinning the same holiday music 24/7. That gets factored into the singles charts as well.

Christmas albums are perennial sellers - People want a hit, today it's as easy as just clicking on the full album stream. Boom, more sales.

Then as you mentioned there are the commercial licensed satellite and streaming services for stores and businesses (and even on-hold music). I guess all that gets calculated too.

My mind was on that McCartney "Top Album" chart - On that one, it tabulates actual physical copies of albums sold, as in vinyl, CD, etc. So it may actually be more of a realistic "chart" because it's showing how much actual product is being shipped to the stores.

But imagine how many decades these charts which are industry standard have been woefully inaccurate if ever since they changed the algorithm and tabulation/survey process the charts have been dominated by decades-old Christmas songs and albums which were barely seen on the current top-100 or top-200 singles and album charts let alone dominating the top 50 positions on each.

It just suggests that either something is wrong or something has been wrong with the way music is charted - and I think it's both. I don't think the music biz has caught up with digital downloading and streaming, and I also think there are some very smart tech teams at the labels who can and do take advantage of that fact to show unrealistic numbers for their artists.

But it also opens up a door for something like the Feel Flows box set to chart at number 1 on its respective genre and category charts because it really doesn't take many units sold or downloaded to place an item on those charts these days. Yet that status of a number 1 placement means more than actual units sold when it comes to publicity and PR.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 04, 2021, 02:13:09 PM
Pure speculation on my end but I think it would be cool if this box set includes material from 1969 to 1975ish.  Then some subsequent bulk releases down the road for the 15 Big Ones/Love You/Adult Child era.  Then after those, whatever outtakes remain from MIU to Beach Boys 85 roughly.  One can dream...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 04, 2021, 06:12:20 PM
Anyone know what the song "It's Natural" is?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on January 05, 2021, 12:56:51 AM
All this McCartney stuff should have it's own thread. I wanna read about the Feel Flows Boxset  :smokin ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 05, 2021, 08:06:12 AM
Not trying to make it a thing, but the McCartney album was brought up in relation to how another "legacy" act would do with a release (e.g. "Feel Flows"). There have been a few posts about McCartney's new album; I don't think we need to immediately call for a new thread and complain due to like a half dozen partially-off-topic posts in a 114-page thread.

Indeed, there is much to learn in terms of potential Beach Boys releases from how McCartney and Beatles product has been marketed in recent years and decades. I think some aspects aren't very comparable or applicable (with the BBs we're talking exclusively, for now anyway, about only archival releases), and Beatles and even McCartney product has a larger audience undoubtedly, but other aspects of what McCartney does (many themed curated playlists/EPs to build up momentum/excitement for a new release) could work quite well for the BBs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 05, 2021, 08:09:37 AM
Pure speculation on my end but I think it would be cool if this box set includes material from 1969 to 1975ish.  Then some subsequent bulk releases down the road for the 15 Big Ones/Love You/Adult Child era.  Then after those, whatever outtakes remain from MIU to Beach Boys 85 roughly.  One can dream...

This set was/is an outgrowth of "Copyright Extension" releases, and it's also meant to pretty specifically showcase Sunflower/Surf's Up material. I very much want to see LOTS of outtakes from the 70s and 80s (I probably want late 70s/early 80s outtakes more than most any other fan), but any boxed set that includes an appropriate amount of material that also tried to cover through 1975 would have to be like a 12-disc set or something.

"Feel Flows" is and should be a (mainly) 1970-1971 set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 06, 2021, 08:55:42 AM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:


(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


It was poster on another messageboard and that user also posted a lot of other articles from the late 60s. Check them out:


https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=73674.1800


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 06, 2021, 09:53:46 AM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:


(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was an *advertisement* rather than a real article.

Still very interesting. But framing it as a trade ad is very different from a real contemporary article on the band.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on January 06, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
Good ol' Jack Rieley. I'm assuming we have him to thank for getting articles like that into the consciousness of readers.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on January 06, 2021, 11:00:19 AM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:


(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


It was poster on another messageboard and that user also posted a lot of other articles from the late 60s. Check them out:


https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=73674.1800

65 million?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 06, 2021, 11:16:06 AM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:


(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was an *advertisement* rather than a real article.

Still very interesting. But framing it as a trade ad is very different from a real contemporary article on the band.



Sorry, didn't want to misrepresent this. I just typed in the first somewhat fitting word that came to me. It probably is more of an advertisement or something similar, I agree.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on January 06, 2021, 06:45:14 PM
It's no biggie. Let's all not turn into nitpickers and hairsplitters, like the guttersnipe contingent amongst those residing over at the "nearest not faraway enough" place...

The site this was taken from is from the UK and bears many of the hallmarks of the Brit's approach to pop music in general and the BBs in particular...about 50% on its way to being Nick Kent...which is NOT a direction worth aiming for. The play-by-play of the main poster has its moments but, as is often the case with the Brits, is way too glib--much too similar to the mag writers selected here.

The actual ad copy here is interesting, and it prompts a query regarding who wrote it. Was it actually Jack, or was it long-time Warners chief flack Stan Cornyn? Stan used to sign his stuff IIRC, so I'm leaning toward the idea that this might just be Jack's prose.

Something that's probably been answered before, but a cursory search here didn't turn up anything specific: in Bob Dawbarn's interview with Mike from 1969 our friend the Lovester lays claim to writing "Do It Again" and bringing it to Brian to be finished. Do we know the actual genesis of the music for "Do It Again"? The melody bears a certain up-down-up-down semi-monotony that is similarly existent in Mike's "Big Sur," so one might extrapolate  that Mike actually created the melody with the lyrics...at which point Brian took over and made a complete song out of it. What sayeth our masters of detail regarding all this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on January 06, 2021, 09:11:22 PM
Well Do it Again has origins back to Hawthorne Blvd. and that itself reminds me of a song by the Frogmen .. the name escapes me... but Mike could still technically be right if he had a hand in Hawthorne Blvd - but let’s be real here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on January 06, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:

(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was an *advertisement* rather than a real article.

Still very interesting. But framing it as a trade ad is very different from a real contemporary article on the band.


Right. An ad from the Nov. 14, 1970 issue of Billboard.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on January 06, 2021, 09:24:07 PM

Well Do it Again has origins back to Hawthorne Blvd. and that itself reminds me of a song by the Frogmen .. the name escapes me... but Mike could still technically be right if he had a hand in Hawthorne Blvd - but let’s be real here.


A mild resemblance to "Underwater" by The Frogmen.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xN8RgVFoBY




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 06, 2021, 10:27:23 PM
Well Do it Again has origins back to Hawthorne Blvd. and that itself reminds me of a song by the Frogmen .. the name escapes me... but Mike could still technically be right if he had a hand in Hawthorne Blvd - but let’s be real here.


The Frogmen song is called Underwater

https://youtu.be/3xN8RgVFoBY

Truth be told it’s a bit of a stretch..i hear more of A Thing or Two personally


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on January 07, 2021, 01:07:14 AM
  as is often the case with the Brits, is way too glib-
A bit of a generalisation, methinketh.  I hope you're only talking about the music mag journos.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on January 07, 2021, 01:50:01 AM
I'm pretty sure everything else I've read about "Do It Again" says that Mike came up with the lyrical idea of the song, brought it to Brian, and together they worked out the song, with Brian writing the music.  I don't think there is any reason to overcomplicate it.  I don't think either Brian or Mike have told exactly how it went down.  And unless they do I don't know what speculating is going to accomplish.


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on January 07, 2021, 02:08:35 AM
Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 07, 2021, 12:31:58 PM
Okay, now we're back to Feel Flows talk, since at least one version of Marcella will be on this box set, does that mean we get to hear Beatrice From Baltimore. Does it have separate lyrics/vocals, or is it just a working title for You Need A Mess Of Help?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on January 07, 2021, 05:07:56 PM
Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???
I have been asking for information on Bill Jackson for years now! I think in one interview Mike gave Bill a slightly different name.
Bill, are you out there?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on January 07, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Here Comes the Night also feels like a slight precursor to Do It Again. And of course the chorus falsetto melody started as a new organ line that Brian wrote for Surfin in Hawaii '67.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on January 07, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???
I have been asking for information on Bill Jackson for years now! I think in one interview Mike gave Bill a slightly different name.
Bill, are you out there?

Admittedly, it's  ridiculous, but I just went on classmates.com and checked out the Dorsey High Class of '59 yearbook... and there he is on the top of p. 96... Bill Jackson.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on January 08, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Fantastic!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on January 08, 2021, 04:47:23 PM
  as is often the case with the Brits, is way too glib-
A bit of a generalisation, methinketh.  I hope you're only talking about the music mag journos.

Yes, referring to the journos, not to the entire citizenry!

Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???
I have been asking for information on Bill Jackson for years now! I think in one interview Mike gave Bill a slightly different name.
Bill, are you out there?


Well, THIS thread has everything you never wanted to know about Bill Jackson:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=7531.0

But wouldn't it be great if it turned out to be THIS Bill Jackson?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/books/2017/01/17/jackson-takes-pride-diverse-cast-lion-winter/96646462/

After you check out the link, you probably won't be holding your breath...

I'm pretty sure everything else I've read about "Do It Again" says that Mike came up with the lyrical idea of the song, brought it to Brian, and together they worked out the song, with Brian writing the music.  I don't think there is any reason to overcomplicate it.  I don't think either Brian or Mike have told exactly how it went down.  And unless they do I don't know what speculating is going to accomplish.

Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Speculating is what many of us are here for, Dan...and the idea that Mike might have written a melody for his lyrics isn't on the level of a quadratic equation, now, is it?

Okay, now we're back to Feel Flows talk, since at least one version of Marcella will be on this box set, does that mean we get to hear Beatrice From Baltimore. Does it have separate lyrics/vocals, or is it just a working title for You Need A Mess Of Help?

The semi-official word is that no one preserved a copy of the song with the original lyrics, but you never know. What has been speculated (there I go again!) as being the first verse of "Beatrice" has circulated ever since David Leaf's first edition of his BB bio, and they do scan with the melody, but they do seem a bit too tongue-in-cheeky to, shall we say, "stand alone."

That said, I'm sure many are hoping against hope that there's a still a demo with those lyrics on it and that it might show up--but I'm not sure if it's "eligible" to be on FEEL FLOWS.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on January 08, 2021, 05:09:24 PM
  as is often the case with the Brits, is way too glib-
A bit of a generalisation, methinketh.  I hope you're only talking about the music mag journos.

Yes, referring to the journos, not to the entire citizenry!

Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???
I have been asking for information on Bill Jackson for years now! I think in one interview Mike gave Bill a slightly different name.
Bill, are you out there?


Well, THIS thread has everything you never wanted to know about Bill Jackson:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=7531.0

But wouldn't it be great if it turned out to be THIS Bill Jackson?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/books/2017/01/17/jackson-takes-pride-diverse-cast-lion-winter/96646462/

After you check out the link, you probably won't be holding your breath...


All joking aside, until yesterday, I truly thought Bill Jackson was a made-up friend in a made-up story.  Let's face it.  The name sounds like something a guy would sign in a hotel guest book as he checked in with his mistress.   But, damn, then I saw that there really was a Bill Jackson at Dorsey High with Mike Love in 1959... and, you know, he looks like he could be surfer... so why not?  Maybe the story is more or less true, and everything happened pretty the way Mike Love said it did.    I'm kind reminded of the Tim Burton film "Big Fish."   :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SunshineTomorrow on January 09, 2021, 12:54:00 PM
"Live in 1970" uploaded today to the official YouTube page? Not available for me though.

Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 09, 2021, 12:58:52 PM
"Live in 1970" uploaded today to the official YouTube page? Not available for me though.

Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA)

Yes indeed, 74 (count 'em) live tracks from '70 showing up on the official BB YouTube channel but all tagged "unavailable".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 09, 2021, 01:00:42 PM
"Live in 1970" uploaded today to the official YouTube page? Not available for me though.

Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA)


It's nothing "official" I guess as it mixes soundboard and audience recordings. Don't know why it's on that channel.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on January 09, 2021, 02:43:09 PM
"Live in 1970" uploaded today to the official YouTube page? Not available for me though.

Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA)


It's nothing "official" I guess as it mixes soundboard and audience recordings. Don't know why it's on that channel.
That channel automatically uploads any "releases" by the band, including stuff like this and the Surfin' Safari re-releases. Someone's obviously just taken advantage of the copyright on these recordings being expired in the EU due to the lack of their release in 2020. It's just someone's bootleg collection now "legally" released, featuring an ad in the middle of an intro - https://youtu.be/dWha_Z19_SA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 09, 2021, 07:14:55 PM
Many of these tracks have significantly better sound quality (albeit not great) than what was ever bootlegged.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on January 09, 2021, 11:09:15 PM
  as is often the case with the Brits, is way too glib-
A bit of a generalisation, methinketh.  I hope you're only talking about the music mag journos.

Yes, referring to the journos, not to the entire citizenry!

Never mind asking Brian and Mike about Do It Again. Has anyone asked Bill Jackson???
I have been asking for information on Bill Jackson for years now! I think in one interview Mike gave Bill a slightly different name.
Bill, are you out there?


Well, THIS thread has everything you never wanted to know about Bill Jackson:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=7531.0

But wouldn't it be great if it turned out to be THIS Bill Jackson?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/books/2017/01/17/jackson-takes-pride-diverse-cast-lion-winter/96646462/

After you check out the link, you probably won't be holding your breath...


All joking aside, until yesterday, I truly thought Bill Jackson was a made-up friend in a made-up story.  Let's face it.  The name sounds like something a guy would sign in a hotel guest book as he checked in with his mistress.   But, damn, then I saw that there really was a Bill Jackson at Dorsey High with Mike Love in 1959... and, you know, he looks like he could be surfer... so why not?  Maybe the story is more or less true, and everything happened pretty the way Mike Love said it did.    I'm kind reminded of the Tim Burton film "Big Fish."   :lol


Same. I always thought Mike was full of sh*t on that one. But maybe he was telling the truth this whole time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 11, 2021, 06:12:07 AM
"Live in 1970" uploaded today to the official YouTube page? Not available for me though.

Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nT6i9gnGVfpzznoABAOX9tATiPJPAiFIA)


It's nothing "official" I guess as it mixes soundboard and audience recordings. Don't know why it's on that channel.

I'm unable to play any of those tracks.  Looks like someone shut them down...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 11, 2021, 07:12:46 AM
BTW, one workaround to be able to play the tracks: use one of those online YouTube-to-MP3/MP4 converters.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on January 11, 2021, 12:13:19 PM
BTW, one workaround to be able to play the tracks: use one of those online YouTube-to-MP3/MP4 converters.

Tried ... didn't work for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: JonEverett on January 12, 2021, 01:25:22 AM
Would it be allowed to upload the Live 1970 tracks here?
Jon


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 12, 2021, 07:27:03 AM
Probably not: like it or not, these things are official now. (And they're for sale on European download sites now, including Amazon. And they're on Spotify.) Plus, admins frown on trading even unofficial stuff on this site, understandably.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 12, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Correct, please don't post direct links to download that kind of thing here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 13, 2021, 01:50:58 AM
I’ve only listened to the first 14 songs in that playlist so far, and that’s Big Sur 1970 in quality similar (or perhaps the same) to Vigotone’s GSHG set but with the missing songs patched in from a common low-quality source. If this is an official ”release”, they sure don’t make a lot of effort but are probably just grabbing the nearest available bootleg sources. 😢


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 13, 2021, 01:58:33 AM
BTW, looking on Tidal, details say ”copyright 2020 Iconic Artists Group, LLC”. I’m beginning to doubt that this is an official release... No sign of UMG/Capitol anywhere.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 13, 2021, 03:30:06 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 13, 2021, 04:47:51 AM
Word on the street is that it *is* an official release, like it or not. It just doesn't involve the usual suspects of Mark Linett et al. Also, the powers that be have said before that recordings of Beach Boys concerts from 1970 are virtually nonexistent, so if you're going to have a collection of 1970 stuff, what you have is pretty much what exists. It appears that they basically did a Beat the Boots kind of thing, like Zappa did: just basically dump what's on the boots.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 13, 2021, 07:02:27 AM
Someone """acquired""" the apparently lossless download and none of the spectrograms exceed 192kbps MP3 quality, sometimes less, so if you have the original bootlegs on CD they're probably higher fidelity than this. Supports the idea that some were just ripped from YouTube.

The first track on the Tidal version comes with a few seconds from a Youtube ad. Classy! I think you’re right about the streaming versions being ripped from Youtube.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 13, 2021, 08:30:39 AM
BTW, looking on Tidal, details say ”copyright 2020 Iconic Artists Group, LLC”. I’m beginning to doubt that this is an official release... No sign of UMG/Capitol anywhere.

The plot thickens.

Granted, anyone can paste a copyright or ownership tag on anything posted online, the more dubious the more likely it can be done, HOWEVER:

Take a look at this discussion which fell off the radar here a few months ago:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html)

"Iconic Artists Group" is under the same umbrella of LLC's and business entities as "Iconic Brothers LLC", which is - as you can read at that link - The LLC listed June 26, 2020 that acquired the BB's song titles from Mike's interests. Again, read the link. "Iconic Artists", "Iconic Brothers"...those company names are attached to multiple interests sharing the same corporate address as Irving Azoff's various interests, as Azoff is a co-founder and owner of "Iconic Artists". For those unaware of who Irving Azoff is, google the name.

So if this dump of live material is listed to "Iconic Artists Group LLC", it connects directly to the group of interests and LLC's under the "Iconic" umbrella of holdings and Irving Azoff's interests, and that signing over of Mike's interests in the songs listed in the public documents at the link above into "Iconic Brothers".

That's all I'll post about it, but for those interested in going down the rabbit hole and some truly inside baseball, the links to start with are there.

That is, unless someone just felt like tagging "Iconic Artists Group LLC" onto a collection of bootlegged live tracks ripped from other sources...but I doubt that's the case.

Happy digging.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on January 13, 2021, 11:28:35 AM
Word on the street is that it *is* an official release, like it or not. It just doesn't involve the usual suspects of Mark Linett et al. Also, the powers that be have said before that recordings of Beach Boys concerts from 1970 are virtually nonexistent, so if you're going to have a collection of 1970 stuff, what you have is pretty much what exists. It appears that they basically did a Beat the Boots kind of thing, like Zappa did: just basically dump what's on the boots.
Not true on concerts from 1970 being virtually nonexistent. There are a couple in the vaults. But of course that isn't relevant since the people who put this release together have zero access to multitrack concerts, or anything other than bootlegs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on January 13, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
"A couple in the vaults" as opposed to, say, a big percent of their concerts = "virtually nonexistent." Note the adverb.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 13, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
As mentioned above, everything on this ”set” is lossy. Just had a look myself and there’s absolutely nothing above 15 kHz which is a sure sign of (terrible, low quality) compression.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 13, 2021, 12:25:10 PM
The plot thickens.

Granted, anyone can paste a copyright or ownership tag on anything posted online, the more dubious the more likely it can be done, HOWEVER:

Take a look at this discussion which fell off the radar here a few months ago:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html)

"Iconic Artists Group" is under the same umbrella of LLC's and business entities as "Iconic Brothers LLC", which is - as you can read at that link - The LLC listed June 26, 2020 that acquired the BB's song titles from Mike's interests. Again, read the link. "Iconic Artists", "Iconic Brothers"...those company names are attached to multiple interests sharing the same corporate address as Irving Azoff's various interests, as Azoff is a co-founder and owner of "Iconic Artists". For those unaware of who Irving Azoff is, google the name.

So if this dump of live material is listed to "Iconic Artists Group LLC", it connects directly to the group of interests and LLC's under the "Iconic" umbrella of holdings and Irving Azoff's interests, and that signing over of Mike's interests in the songs listed in the public documents at the link above into "Iconic Brothers".

That's all I'll post about it, but for those interested in going down the rabbit hole and some truly inside baseball, the links to start with are there.

That is, unless someone just felt like tagging "Iconic Artists Group LLC" onto a collection of bootlegged live tracks ripped from other sources...but I doubt that's the case.

Happy digging.  :)

Thanks for the info. Wasn’t familiar with this Irving Azoff character before but I quick Google search educated me. I wonder how he managed to become so successful. He must’ve worked his Azoff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 13, 2021, 05:08:22 PM
As mentioned above, everything on this ”set” is lossy. Just had a look myself and there’s absolutely nothing above 15 kHz which is a sure sign of (terrible, low quality) compression.

Just wondering what software you are using to test, just to know.
?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 14, 2021, 01:06:44 AM
I started a new thread, Live 1970.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 14, 2021, 01:08:19 AM
BTW, looking on Tidal, details say ”copyright 2020 Iconic Artists Group, LLC”. I’m beginning to doubt that this is an official release... No sign of UMG/Capitol anywhere.

The plot thickens.

Granted, anyone can paste a copyright or ownership tag on anything posted online, the more dubious the more likely it can be done, HOWEVER:

Take a look at this discussion which fell off the radar here a few months ago:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html)

"Iconic Artists Group" is under the same umbrella of LLC's and business entities as "Iconic Brothers LLC", which is - as you can read at that link - The LLC listed June 26, 2020 that acquired the BB's song titles from Mike's interests. Again, read the link. "Iconic Artists", "Iconic Brothers"...those company names are attached to multiple interests sharing the same corporate address as Irving Azoff's various interests, as Azoff is a co-founder and owner of "Iconic Artists". For those unaware of who Irving Azoff is, google the name.

So if this dump of live material is listed to "Iconic Artists Group LLC", it connects directly to the group of interests and LLC's under the "Iconic" umbrella of holdings and Irving Azoff's interests, and that signing over of Mike's interests in the songs listed in the public documents at the link above into "Iconic Brothers".

That's all I'll post about it, but for those interested in going down the rabbit hole and some truly inside baseball, the links to start with are there.

That is, unless someone just felt like tagging "Iconic Artists Group LLC" onto a collection of bootlegged live tracks ripped from other sources...but I doubt that's the case.

Happy digging.  :)

How did it end up on the _official_ BB ch.???

Have they lost all control?

And how did the FF snippets end up on Allmusic???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on January 14, 2021, 03:29:04 AM
As mentioned above, everything on this ”set” is lossy. Just had a look myself and there’s absolutely nothing above 15 kHz which is a sure sign of (terrible, low quality) compression.

Just wondering what software you are using to test, just to know.
?

I use iZotope RX as it has a great looking spectrogram function, but there are lots of different software offering this. Audacity has one, but it’s pretty basic. Then there’s software such as Tau Analyser or Trader’s Little Helper if you want a quicker alternative.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on January 14, 2021, 09:32:10 AM
And how did the FF snippets end up on Allmusic???

That was the way to keep everything from losing copyright in 2020 so they didn’t have to spoil the box by doing massive digital dumps.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 14, 2021, 12:51:03 PM
As mentioned above, everything on this ”set” is lossy. Just had a look myself and there’s absolutely nothing above 15 kHz which is a sure sign of (terrible, low quality) compression.

Just wondering what software you are using to test, just to know.
?

I use iZotope RX as it has a great looking spectrogram function, but there are lots of different software offering this. Audacity has one, but it’s pretty basic. Then there’s software such as Tau Analyser or Trader’s Little Helper if you want a quicker alternative.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 15, 2021, 11:18:30 AM
And how did the FF snippets end up on Allmusic???

That was the way to keep everything from losing copyright in 2020 so they didn’t have to spoil the box by doing massive digital dumps.

I see, thanks. So that was an official thing. But the live set is another thing. Just don't understand how "they" - whoever it is - can/are able to put stuff like that on an _official_ channel...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on January 15, 2021, 12:35:34 PM
And how did the FF snippets end up on Allmusic???

That was the way to keep everything from losing copyright in 2020 so they didn’t have to spoil the box by doing massive digital dumps.

I see, thanks. So that was an official thing. But the live set is another thing. Just don't understand how "they" - whoever it is - can/are able to put stuff like that on an _official_ channel...
Since it has been over 50 years since these recordings, anyone can release them legally. Then since a new legal release comes out digitally, it gets uploaded to Youtube and Spotify. Mark and Alan weren't involved with this, but they did create those new mixes featured in the allmusic snippets.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelsflow on January 17, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Back to Sunflower and "Feel Flows". I just stumbled upon this article:


(https://i.imgur.com/tkBZX9y.jpg)


It was poster on another messageboard and that user also posted a lot of other articles from the late 60s. Check them out:


https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=73674.1800

Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 18, 2021, 01:38:56 AM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.






Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on January 18, 2021, 07:19:15 AM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.






Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.

Wasn't Marcella recorded long long before the rest of the material for So Tough?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 18, 2021, 10:29:54 AM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.






Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.

Wasn't Marcella recorded long long before the rest of the material for So Tough?

Technically it started out in the 60's as "All Dressed Up For School", then morphed into "I Just Got My Pay".  The latter song was indeed recorded around the Sunflower sessions...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on January 18, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
Just curious as to when we can expect more information to drop on the actual Feel Flows project.  For those "in the know", is an official announcement of this project imminent?  If I recall a few months ago Howie stated that everything was basically done with the box set.  Is it just red tape legalities we're waiting on? 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on January 18, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
Based on Al’s comments on Billy Hinsche’s FB show back in November, it is coming out in May or June. If that is still the case, I would imagine that there would be some sort of press in March.

It’s amazing that the YouTube video of the Allmusic snippets has had over 6K views. Clearly there is a demand for this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 18, 2021, 05:15:53 PM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.






Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.

I believe a good portion (half?) of So Tough was cut in 1971. This box covers the 2021 copyright extension.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 19, 2021, 01:48:14 AM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.






Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.

I believe a good portion (half?) of So Tough was cut in 1971. This box covers the 2021 copyright extension.


That could be the case! Personally I wouldn't have a problem with this set covering Sunflower through So Tough and then have a special single release for the Holland album. That album has a certain cult-status even outside of Beach Boys fans (not unlike Wild Honey), so it would make sense to release a special edition imo. Although I'm not sure if there is enough outtake material etc. from that time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 19, 2021, 02:13:47 PM
I just realized somethng, and sorry if this has already come up, I don't follow this thread that closely. But IIRC Howie said that Brian's (or Bruce's?) recollection of how "Marcella" was done impressed him mightily. But "Marcella" was on neither Sunflower nor Surf's Up but on So Tough. So, will this set also include material from that album? Again, I'm not following this thread closely but wait for the big announcement, so it's possible that this was already cleared, but I couldn't find anything related to that question.


Thank you, Rocker.  Never heard of that forum.  Very interesting posts.  Some stuff I had never seen before. -Will


You're welcome! I didn't know that board either. I only came across it by accident when I was doing a picture search.

I believe a good portion (half?) of So Tough was cut in 1971. This box covers the 2021 copyright extension.


That could be the case! Personally I wouldn't have a problem with this set covering Sunflower through So Tough and then have a special single release for the Holland album. That album has a certain cult-status even outside of Beach Boys fans (not unlike Wild Honey), so it would make sense to release a special edition imo. Although I'm not sure if there is enough outtake material etc. from that time.

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 19, 2021, 03:42:28 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Custom Machine on January 19, 2021, 07:35:05 PM
As far as The BBs In Concert is concerned, I'm looking forward to an expanded CD set as well as copyright extension digital releases of every 1972 and 1973 concert recorded for potential use in that album.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 19, 2021, 07:38:38 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere*, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

*was the source Brad Elliot’s 1981 book? I think it might have been.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on January 19, 2021, 07:48:52 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 19, 2021, 08:23:24 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.

Makes sense- anyone have the ‘81 Brad Elliot book? Trying to determine if I’m crazy or not. Nevermind don’t answer that question ...



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 19, 2021, 10:35:18 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.

Makes sense- anyone have the ‘81 Brad Elliot book? Trying to determine if I’m crazy or not. Nevermind don’t answer that question ...



I have it - I'll check when I get home and report back.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 20, 2021, 01:28:43 AM
As far as The BBs In Concert is concerned, I'm looking forward to an expanded CD set as well as copyright extension digital releases of every 1972 and 1973 concert recorded for potential use in that album.




Yes!  ;D
This still exists btw: http://beachboyscentral.com/ (http://beachboyscentral.com/) so regular downloads of concerts would be nice.
Anyway, the live recordings from that era ('70-'74/5) need to be released. They were so good back then. I just listened to the Nassau radio broadcast from '74 a couple of days back. What a band!





As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.


I see. So it will not be limited to just the two albums but even more material. Gets better and better every time I learn something new about the set. The "Cottonfileds" single was actually on the european release of "Sunflower", so it makes sense to have it on the set. The acapella mix (if to be found on "Feel Flows") will blow away everyone's mind if they haven't heard it.
When it comes to "Holland", I really think that a standalone release would make sense. That is, if enough material is there to fill out more than just one disc. Obviously you have "Mt. Vernon" and "We got love", but I don't know if there's more (not sure if "Hard Times" was recorded for "Holland"). Maybe a second disc of live performances in the Netherlands. But it would still need something more.
A set as you mention (Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer) would be my second choice, I guess. The recordings after "Holland" have such a different feel, so that I would release them independently. But whatever, I am sure that Alan, Mark and Howie will find a way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 20, 2021, 11:53:18 AM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.

Makes sense- anyone have the ‘81 Brad Elliot book? Trying to determine if I’m crazy or not. Nevermind don’t answer that question ...



I have it - I'll check when I get home and report back.

Just following this up - as promised - there's no specific reference to The Night Was So Young in Elliott's book with an earlier date, but reference is made to I Wanna Pick You Up being recorded during the 15 Big Ones sessions, and a working title for 15BO being "Pick Ya Up At 8". I'd say this is what you were thinking of.??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 20, 2021, 12:58:39 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 01:23:15 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.

Makes sense- anyone have the ‘81 Brad Elliot book? Trying to determine if I’m crazy or not. Nevermind don’t answer that question ...



I have it - I'll check when I get home and report back.

Just following this up - as promised - there's no specific reference to The Night Was So Young in Elliott's book with an earlier date, but reference is made to I Wanna Pick You Up being recorded during the 15 Big Ones sessions, and a working title for 15BO being "Pick Ya Up At 8". I'd say this is what you were thinking of.??

I can't 100% remember (this was when I was a teenager in the '90s), but in the discography- it would have asterisks etc next to certain tracks and indicate different years recorded I think? Of course I might just have confused "night was so young" with "It's OK" or "Good Timin" for all these years or something. Or it might have been a different book.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 01:31:54 PM

As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

Huh, The Night Was So Young? Not that one.

I like those ideas for coverage. It'd probably be necessary if annual digital releases are becoming less stable. Alan expressed interest in doing a "Brian's Back" box semi-recently, which in his mind would cover 15 Big Ones to MIU. The MIU sessions are vast in of themselves and could potentially dilute a deserved focus on the 15BO-LY-AC trilogy, but I'm not sure how else you'd do it with the next phase being the CBS albums. Can't imagine an MIU boxset on its own selling.

I’m certain “Night Was So Young” was documented as having been recorded in 1974 somewhere, but can’t find a reference online. Certainly it could not have been part of the Love You sessions proper- it has a totally different sonic imprint.

MIU would be included in a 1976-77 release. Not sure what they added in ‘78 if anything, but the core sessions were fall ‘77. By 1978, we’re into the Caribou era- which IMO would be pretty tough to chronicle as a a marketable package. At least “Good Timin” would go on the ‘72-‘75 release.

Donny, "The Night Was So Young" might have been written around '75 (it's reportedly about Debbie Kiel), but it was definitely recorded in '76 or early '77. For one thing, it's a 24-track recording, whereas everything from '74 is 16-track. "Winds Of Change" and "Come Go With Me" from MIUwere finished in '78, so there was a little bit of overlap there with the early L.A. era.

To add to this, its position on lists and a rough mix reel suggests to me that it could've been recorded simultaneously with We Gotta Groove, which is extremely Love You. Both of them have Wilsons playing together on similar sounding tack piano, guitar and drums. Even if not, it's typical Love You instrumentation. To my ears it unmistakably has the sonic signature of those sessions, especially the early mix, which existed on a November '76 compilation. You wouldn't think of My Diane as Love You either without being told because it didn't get as far as Brian adding a synth.

As for the sonic signature I am referring to, I still say "Night Was So Young" is an outlier. It sounds sonically more like "Ding Dang" and "It's OK" than the rest of the record to me. But "I Wanna Pick You Up" is in the ballpark too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 20, 2021, 01:40:35 PM
You have a great memory . . . when it comes to the format/layout-

Entry no.302  :)

APR 11, 1977 Brother-Reprise MSK 2258 (LP)
Recorded: Fall 1976 except +Early 1976, %1973 and $1970
by The Beach Boys
THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU      Prod: Brian Wilson
     Mixdown Producer: Carl Wilson

side one
     Let Us Go On This Way-BW-Mike Love--] :58
     Roller Skating Child-BW--2:16
     Mona-BW-2:05
     Johnny Carson--BW--2:46
   $Good Time-BW-Alan Jardine--2:48
     Honkin' Down The Highway---BW---2:46
   %Ding Dang-BW-Roger McGuinn---0:54

side two
     Solar System-BW-2:47
     The Night Was So Young--BW --2:13
     I'll Bet He's Nice-BW---2:35
     Let's Put Our Hearts Together--BW--2:11
  +I Wanna Pick You Up-BW--2:38
     Airplane--BW-3:05
     Love Is A Woman--BW-2:55



As you say, it may have been a different book.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on January 20, 2021, 03:34:47 PM
As far as The BBs In Concert is concerned, I'm looking forward to an expanded CD set as well as copyright extension digital releases of every 1972 and 1973 concert recorded for potential use in that album.


Yes!  ;D
This still exists btw: http://beachboyscentral.com/ (http://beachboyscentral.com/) so regular downloads of concerts would be nice.
Anyway, the live recordings from that era ('70-'74/5) need to be released. They were so good back then. I just listened to the Nassau radio broadcast from '74 a couple of days back. What a band!





As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

I see. So it will not be limited to just the two albums but even more material. Gets better and better every time I learn something new about the set. The "Cottonfileds" single was actually on the european release of "Sunflower", so it makes sense to have it on the set. The acapella mix (if to be found on "Feel Flows") will blow away everyone's mind if they haven't heard it.
When it comes to "Holland", I really think that a standalone release would make sense. That is, if enough material is there to fill out more than just one disc. Obviously you have "Mt. Vernon" and "We got love", but I don't know if there's more (not sure if "Hard Times" was recorded for "Holland"). Maybe a second disc of live performances in the Netherlands. But it would still need something more.
A set as you mention (Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer) would be my second choice, I guess. The recordings after "Holland" have such a different feel, so that I would release them independently. But whatever, I am sure that Alan, Mark and Howie will find a way.

Live tracks for FEEL FLOWS would not include anything from '72 (or so I would surmise...), which is the first time a number of well-regarded tunes debut in the live shows. So I'm surmising that the HOLLAND-IN CONCERT-"CARIBOU MIRAGE" period is going to be heavy on augmenting IN CONCERT, including all or most of the items that didn't make the cut back in the day.

Unless our heroes uncover a ton of unreleased tracks and outtakes rivaling what we saw on SUNSHINE TOMORROW and I CAN HEAR MUSIC, I'm just not sensing that this is going to rise to the level of a physical release. I think that is more likely to happen for a BRIAN IS BACK!? set, which could also avail itself of the ADULT CHILD material. This period has Brian as the narrative hook, with plenty of outtakes and alternate versions. There's no doubt that it would receive a lot of media attention...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 11:30:44 PM
You have a great memory . . . when it comes to the format/layout-

Entry no.302  :)

APR 11, 1977 Brother-Reprise MSK 2258 (LP)
Recorded: Fall 1976 except +Early 1976, %1973 and $1970
by The Beach Boys
THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU      Prod: Brian Wilson
     Mixdown Producer: Carl Wilson

side one
     Let Us Go On This Way-BW-Mike Love--] :58
     Roller Skating Child-BW--2:16
     Mona-BW-2:05
     Johnny Carson--BW--2:46
   $Good Time-BW-Alan Jardine--2:48
     Honkin' Down The Highway---BW---2:46
   %Ding Dang-BW-Roger McGuinn---0:54

side two
     Solar System-BW-2:47
     The Night Was So Young--BW --2:13
     I'll Bet He's Nice-BW---2:35
     Let's Put Our Hearts Together--BW--2:11
  +I Wanna Pick You Up-BW--2:38
     Airplane--BW-3:05
     Love Is A Woman--BW-2:55



As you say, it may have been a different book.




Sweet thanks ha


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 11:36:11 PM
As far as The BBs In Concert is concerned, I'm looking forward to an expanded CD set as well as copyright extension digital releases of every 1972 and 1973 concert recorded for potential use in that album.


Yes!  ;D
This still exists btw: http://beachboyscentral.com/ (http://beachboyscentral.com/) so regular downloads of concerts would be nice.
Anyway, the live recordings from that era ('70-'74/5) need to be released. They were so good back then. I just listened to the Nassau radio broadcast from '74 a couple of days back. What a band!





As the set covers 1969-71, it technically encompasses what you might call "post-20/20" through So Tough. In terms of releases, this would be the "Break Away" single through So Tough. With regard to unreleased material, the "last Capitol album" (Fading Rock Group Revival, Reverberation, etc.) would be the earliest record. As portions of that record ultimately became Sunflower, it's fair to say Sunflower-So Tough ... but the problem with that description is that it excludes actual post-20/20 releases like "Break Away"/"Celebrate the News" and "Cottonfields".

IMO the best way to go next is for two sets: 1972-75 (the Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer era), then the Brian is Back-era (1976-77).  Worth noting that good portions of 15 Big Ones and Love You were actually cut 1973-75 ("Ding Dang", "It's OK", "Night Was So Young", "Back Home" etc.), so that would create a kind of interesting feel on these releases.

I see. So it will not be limited to just the two albums but even more material. Gets better and better every time I learn something new about the set. The "Cottonfileds" single was actually on the european release of "Sunflower", so it makes sense to have it on the set. The acapella mix (if to be found on "Feel Flows") will blow away everyone's mind if they haven't heard it.
When it comes to "Holland", I really think that a standalone release would make sense. That is, if enough material is there to fill out more than just one disc. Obviously you have "Mt. Vernon" and "We got love", but I don't know if there's more (not sure if "Hard Times" was recorded for "Holland"). Maybe a second disc of live performances in the Netherlands. But it would still need something more.
A set as you mention (Holland-In Concert-Endless Summer) would be my second choice, I guess. The recordings after "Holland" have such a different feel, so that I would release them independently. But whatever, I am sure that Alan, Mark and Howie will find a way.

Live tracks for FEEL FLOWS would not include anything from '72 (or so I would surmise...), which is the first time a number of well-regarded tunes debut in the live shows. So I'm surmising that the HOLLAND-IN CONCERT-"CARIBOU MIRAGE" period is going to be heavy on augmenting IN CONCERT, including all or most of the items that didn't make the cut back in the day.

Unless our heroes uncover a ton of unreleased tracks and outtakes rivaling what we saw on SUNSHINE TOMORROW and I CAN HEAR MUSIC, I'm just not sensing that this is going to rise to the level of a physical release. I think that is more likely to happen for a BRIAN IS BACK!? set, which could also avail itself of the ADULT CHILD material. This period has Brian as the narrative hook, with plenty of outtakes and alternate versions. There's no doubt that it would receive a lot of media attention...

While post-1977 recordings would be really interesting for us fans, I can’t think of anything particularly marketable or remarkable ... except maybe those random tracks like “Stevie”.

I think Holland has potential but there are not many outtakes there. For that reason, I could see a 2-3 disc set of unreleased tracks from Holland + In Concert +outtakes being a pretty sure bet because the band was good and there’s a lot of the hits to draw from in unreleased versions etc. Oh and if they play up the Endless Summer era, and give it a catchy name ... maybe even cover art like Endless Summer but with real photos of the group ... really lots of cool potential there.

The Brian is Back era is really the last goldmine. That stuff is legend and in many ways as great as anything they’ve ever done. And getting it all laid out with New Album, Adult Child, etc ... to me, that’s even more exciting that Feel Flows. This one really should be a box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on January 21, 2021, 11:46:18 AM
I really don't see any reason to deviate from combining CATP/Holland [the Ricky + Blonde era] for one release - I know there aren't huge numbers of outtakes - followed by a release highlighting the bands live chops through the 1972-1974 era, including of course, the full 1 disc version of In Concert / live shows from '72 - '74.

Unless I'm missing something and a box set that we've been told covers Sunflower and Surf's Up (and was originally scheduled for early 2020) also covers most of Carl and the Passions.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 21, 2021, 08:51:45 PM
I really don't see any reason to deviate from combining CATP/Holland [the Ricky + Blonde era] for one release - I know there aren't huge numbers of outtakes - followed by a release highlighting the bands live chops through the 1972-1974 era, including of course, the full 1 disc version of In Concert / live shows from '72 - '74.

Unless I'm missing something and a box set that we've been told covers Sunflower and Surf's Up (and was originally scheduled for early 2020) also covers most of Carl and the Passions.



Well this convo came about because a good chunk of So Tough is coming in Feel Flows- portions of So Tough were cut in 1971. The set covers 1969-71, so before Sunflower and after Surf’s Up. Not sure how many tracks but since there are only 8, it could be a chunk. “Marcella” seems more or less confirmed, and I know sessions for “Mess of Help”/“Beatrice from Baltimore”, “All This Is That” and “He Come Down” began in ‘71. But maybe they’ll just do early versions or something. Also Dennis’ tracks might potentially have some overlap with his 1971 material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on January 22, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
BTW, looking on Tidal, details say ”copyright 2020 Iconic Artists Group, LLC”. I’m beginning to doubt that this is an official release... No sign of UMG/Capitol anywhere.

The plot thickens.

Granted, anyone can paste a copyright or ownership tag on anything posted online, the more dubious the more likely it can be done, HOWEVER:

Take a look at this discussion which fell off the radar here a few months ago:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27459.0.html)

"Iconic Artists Group" is under the same umbrella of LLC's and business entities as "Iconic Brothers LLC", which is - as you can read at that link - The LLC listed June 26, 2020 that acquired the BB's song titles from Mike's interests. Again, read the link. "Iconic Artists", "Iconic Brothers"...those company names are attached to multiple interests sharing the same corporate address as Irving Azoff's various interests, as Azoff is a co-founder and owner of "Iconic Artists". For those unaware of who Irving Azoff is, google the name.

So if this dump of live material is listed to "Iconic Artists Group LLC", it connects directly to the group of interests and LLC's under the "Iconic" umbrella of holdings and Irving Azoff's interests, and that signing over of Mike's interests in the songs listed in the public documents at the link above into "Iconic Brothers".

That's all I'll post about it, but for those interested in going down the rabbit hole and some truly inside baseball, the links to start with are there.

That is, unless someone just felt like tagging "Iconic Artists Group LLC" onto a collection of bootlegged live tracks ripped from other sources...but I doubt that's the case.

Happy digging.  :)

Wow, great connection you made. Certainly makes one wonder what’s going on with this release. It’s perhaps of note that this appears to be Iconic Artist Group’s first and only release to-date, so it’s not like they’re out there claiming copyrights en masse for a bunch of different artists. Feel like that weakens the case that they’re just doing general run-of-the-mill grey-market bootlegging for a quick buck. If that were the case you’d think they’d just be pumping out the releases non-stop.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on January 22, 2021, 09:44:25 AM
I really don't see any reason to deviate from combining CATP/Holland [the Ricky + Blonde era] for one release - I know there aren't huge numbers of outtakes - followed by a release highlighting the bands live chops through the 1972-1974 era, including of course, the full 1 disc version of In Concert / live shows from '72 - '74.

Unless I'm missing something and a box set that we've been told covers Sunflower and Surf's Up (and was originally scheduled for early 2020) also covers most of Carl and the Passions.



Well this convo came about because a good chunk of So Tough is coming in Feel Flows- portions of So Tough were cut in 1971. The set covers 1969-71, so before Sunflower and after Surf’s Up. Not sure how many tracks but since there are only 8, it could be a chunk. “Marcella” seems more or less confirmed, and I know sessions for “Mess of Help”/“Beatrice from Baltimore”, “All This Is That” and “He Come Down” began in ‘71. But maybe they’ll just do early versions or something. Also Dennis’ tracks might potentially have some overlap with his 1971 material.

It seems weird to put the SO TOUGH stuff on a box set called FEEL FLOWS, but if they're doing that it must be due to some kind of copyright issue coming up in '21. (And that they don't want to have to do a "dump" at the end of the year.)

It really does make the most sense to bundle SO TOUGH with HOLLAND and add the live material to that in order to show just what kind of a band evolved from the retooling of personnel.

And that set might work commercially as a physical release.

Not quite convinced that the BRIAN IS BACK!? period has some of the band's "greatest stuff," but it's all very interesting and extremely varied--thus ensuring that it would sell well. The evolution of LOVE YOU would make quite a disk unto itself, I would think.

Perhaps we'll get some clarification about the contents of FEEL FLOWS one of these days. It's been a long slog--even longer for those who were in the trenches trying to make sure that the whole thing didn't go "poof!"--and wouldn't it be nice to get an actual track list for it, eh?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on January 22, 2021, 12:32:33 PM
I think a "CARIBOU to CRITERIA" box would be absolutely incredible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on January 22, 2021, 01:05:42 PM
I think a "CARIBOU to CRITERIA" box would be absolutely incredible.

I'd even love to see them go ahead and also include the few years after that. There's some interesting KTSA stuff, plus "Stevie", the 1980 "My Solution", and that sort of stuff. I'd love to see it end at pre-Landy in 1982. Once it rolls around to 1983, Brian starts cutting solo demos and I'm not even sure which stuff is under the purview of the "Beach Boys" versus stuff Brian owns. (A "Solo Brian Rarities" set is a whole other ball of wax worth looking at of course).

And, I'm only engaging in guessing (if somewhat educated guessing), but as it gets later into the 70s, there are a lot of unreleased *titles*, as in wholly unreleased songs rather than just alternates (though there are plenty of interesting alternates).

There's stuff we know about that we haven't even heard, and I'm sure stuff we don't even know about.

Let's hope "Feel Flows" begets some other no-brainer sets, even if the rest probably need to remain digital.

1. Feel Flows 70/71
2. A 1972/73 set
3. A 1974-1982 set
4. A live box

We've all been making these types of lists for a couple decades now. I hope "Feel Flows" is the next step in this stuff happening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 22, 2021, 01:29:05 PM
I think a "CARIBOU to CRITERIA" box would be absolutely incredible.

Hell yeah it would. If you all need help going through the archives or remastering, I’m available (hint hint) 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on January 22, 2021, 01:30:35 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 22, 2021, 04:38:44 PM
Maybe an outtakes release covering multiple years could be released prior to those years. One possible solution


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 22, 2021, 05:26:04 PM

3. A 1974-1982 set


15 Big Ones, Love You, Adult Child and MIU are enormous, at least as many songs as the period Feel Flows is looking to cover without even including the scattered '73-'75 tracks. The LA, KTSA and post-KTSA era is almost equally huge. It couldn't feasibly sit beside the rest on a single release unless the scale increased dramatically or the depth dropped by a lot.

Yes.

How about this:

CARIBOU (1972-75) - outtakes from So Tough to pre-15 Big Ones, presented as a proper album that could have been.

ENDLESS SUMMER LIVE (1972-75) - cover art like Endless Summer but with real photos of the group from the era. Track list mirrors Endless Summer as closely as possible for the first disc!

BRIAN IS BACK (1976-77) - 15 Big Ones + Love You + MIU  outtakes + New Album, Adult Child, etc.

1978-2012 - everything else. Not too much marketable here is what I think is the problem.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on January 23, 2021, 01:40:25 AM
I love that Endless Summer live idea!! I'd also ideally love to have a "Beachago" set. I wouldn't mind a KTSA box set. I'd like a disc of the whole album totally remastered to sound more "live", at least two cd's of outtakes, and maybe the 1980 Philadelphia show.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 23, 2021, 03:51:56 AM


ENDLESS SUMMER LIVE (1972-75) - cover art like Endless Summer but with real photos of the group from the era. Track list mirrors Endless Summer as closely as possible for the first disc!





I can see the commercial point of this and the Boys - no doubt - were a great live band at this time. But really another show with the same songs? We have the great Knebworth show, which includes Brian and Bruce, so that is good enough for me. I'm not a fan of Billy Hinsche's sound in the Beach Boys blend on the oldies (interestingly he sounds more fitting on stuff like "Funky pretty" etc), so I woudn't be too excited about this. I'd rather have a complete Blondie & Ricky show or a compilation of the best stuff. I wouldn't be offended though, if they'd release something like you suggested.


BTW I wanted to ask this in another thread but since we're talking about live recordings from this periode: The live versions of "Wild Honey" and "It's about Time" (possibly others as well) on "Made in California" have this weird echo/delay on the vocals. Was that how they did it back then or was it a decision by Mark, Alan etc. ? I don't like it, to be honest. Takes away a lot of power and "live"-feeling.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on January 25, 2021, 07:50:20 PM
My 2 cents (after taxes): I can't believe we're speculating on future releases when we don't even have Feel Flows in our hands (and ears) yet. That said, I do think the So Tough/Holland material deserves it's own set - the Ricky/Blondie era. I also think that's the last really fertile period musically; the group trying new sounds, integrating the two new guys into the band; with material that is well regarded these days.
I suppose there could be a Brian is Back - But He Really Wasn't box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 25, 2021, 10:00:44 PM
^ I personally prefer the Brian is Back era to anything else after Friends.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on January 26, 2021, 02:24:24 AM
My 2 cents (after taxes): I can't believe we're speculating on future releases when we don't even have Feel Flows in our hands (and ears) yet. That said, I do think the So Tough/Holland material deserves it's own set - the Ricky/Blondie era.


I don't know about this copyright extension business, but since at least some of the So Tough material seems to be on "Feel Flows" (Marcella) would it be too crazy to think that the complete album will be covered, even though some of the tracks still have the copyright until later this year?
As mentioned before, I could see them putting the three albums (Sunflower, Surf's Up, So Tough) onto this new set and releasing a deluxe version of "Holland" for it's anniversary (not unlike a single release for "Wild Honey" with "Sunshine Tomorrow"). But that's just me. I don't have any insight into what the team is working with and what their plans are.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on January 27, 2021, 01:44:11 AM
We'll all have forgotten who the Beach Boys were by the time this comes out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on January 27, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Quote
DonnyL:

Yes.

How about this:

CARIBOU (1972-75) - outtakes from So Tough to pre-15 Big Ones, presented as a proper album that could have been.

ENDLESS SUMMER LIVE (1972-75) - cover art like Endless Summer but with real photos of the group from the era. Track list mirrors Endless Summer as closely as possible for the first disc!

BRIAN IS BACK (1976-77) - 15 Big Ones + Love You + MIU  outtakes + New Album, Adult Child, etc.

1978-2012 - everything else. Not too much marketable here is what I think is the problem.

Not a bad idea either.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on January 27, 2021, 11:57:33 PM
We'll all have forgotten who the Beach Boys were by the time this comes out.
Yeah, things have been awfully quiet recently. It’s making me optimistic for an announcement soon at least.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on January 28, 2021, 05:52:23 PM
Things have been quiet for damn near a year. And that makes you excited for details?..........


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 28, 2021, 06:37:58 PM
Considering Howie has updated us recently I wouldn’t call it being quiet for a year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on January 29, 2021, 12:56:58 AM
Considering Howie has updated us recently I wouldn’t call it being quiet for a year.
Exactly. It feels like we haven’t had an update from Howie for a hot minute, and the last two were “it’s all going well”. Smells good to me!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 29, 2021, 09:35:33 AM
They say no news is good news... Hmmmmm....
But hopefully we can Celebrate the news one day... 😁


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on January 29, 2021, 09:37:04 AM
I just wonder...Who are their target audience? Old fans or new - or both? Why not release the whole shebang while we're still alive!!?? Why not please the long-time fans instead of future generations who don't have a clue who the Beach Boys were? We've grown up together, enjoyed and supported the boys for - I believe many of us - 50 years or more. We've longed for new releases, we had some great moments, sometimes disappointed, but we're still here for the boys! And we've spent thousands of dollars and we're still prepared to spend more... Am I being selfish thinking that way? But when we, the long-time fans are dead it's too late....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 29, 2021, 11:04:16 AM
Considering Howie has updated us recently I wouldn’t call it being quiet for a year.
Exactly. It feels like we haven’t had an update from Howie for a hot minute, and the last two were “it’s all going well”. Smells good to me!

I think you got the opposite meaning of what I’m saying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on January 29, 2021, 02:40:04 PM
I just wonder...Who are their target audience? Old fans or new - or both? Why not release the whole shebang while we're still alive!!?? Why not please the long-time fans instead of future generations who don't have a clue who the Beach Boys were? We've grown up together, enjoyed and supported the boys for - I believe many of us - 50 years or more. We've longed for new releases, we had some great moments, sometimes disappointed, but we're still here for the boys! And we've spent thousands of dollars and we're still prepared to spend more... Am I being selfish thinking that way? But when we, the long-time fans are dead it's too late....

Hear Ye!  Hear Ye!


On another note, is there anyone else besides me who's not exactly bowled over with the snippets and the "song list" that was unearthed?  I mean, yes, the snippets sound great, and will be revelatory.  And I think "Loop De Loop" and "My Solution" are both genius.  But I also think there are a lot of Beach Boy super fans who don't like those two songs very much.  So where are all the things Howie said were going to make people think differently about the Beach Boys?  "I Just Got My Pay" and "Carnival/Over The Waves" certainly aren't going to do it.   Have some of you heard most of the new Dennis songs that are going to be on it?  Are they going to make people think differently about the Beach Boys?  I mean, in my mind, many Dennis songs do have the power to do that.  So hopefully they'll be a revelation!  I just hope there are a lot of other songs we've never heard (and were completed, or nearly completed) to add to the box that help to change people's minds about the Boys.

And there's still FIVE MONTHS before it comes out!  AAAAAAARGH!  That is just way too long!  Please, someone, speed it up!  Get it out sooner!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on January 29, 2021, 02:58:02 PM
Sort of wondering the same - I don't see Brian's (rightfully) discarded Sunflower songs from this period changing any public perceptions for the better. My guess is also on the Dennis stuff


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on January 29, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
*they have not leaked any unreleased snippets from 1971.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 29, 2021, 06:16:32 PM
Call me crazy, but i have a very strong feeling Ecology is going to blow some minds....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on February 03, 2021, 10:47:58 AM
^ I personally prefer the Brian is Back era to anything else after Friends.

Me too, with the exception of Holland, which I think is as strong as the material from the Brian-dominated years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 03, 2021, 12:52:06 PM
Well, there's like 116 tracks (give or take 1 or 2) on this box set.

We know of around 70-80 of them at this stage, what they will be. I'd allow 10 tracks for the 1970 Big Sur show. There could be some rehearsals. I don't think there'll be more than 2 or 3 from CATP.

That leaves, let's say at least 20 tracks that we don't know about. Those 20 could be either more run-of-the-mill tracks or they could be revelatory. ??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 03, 2021, 02:07:28 PM
I don't understand how and why everybody thinks Big Sur will be released. It seems as though the existing soundboard recording isn't even the full show.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 03, 2021, 02:08:04 PM
I don't understand how and why everybody thinks Big Sur will be released. It seems as though the existing soundboard recording isn't even the full show.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on February 03, 2021, 02:08:37 PM
I don't understand how and why everybody thinks Big Sur will be released. It seems as though the existing soundboard recording isn't even the full show.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on February 04, 2021, 09:42:48 AM
I don't understand how and why everybody thinks Big Sur will be released. It seems as though the existing soundboard recording isn't even the full show.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on February 04, 2021, 10:45:58 AM
If it is indeed legit, Big Sur 1970 has been officially released on Live in 1970.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on February 04, 2021, 11:16:46 AM
Well, there's like 116 tracks (give or take 1 or 2) on this box set.

We know of around 70-80 of them at this stage, what they will be. I'd allow 10 tracks for the 1970 Big Sur show. There could be some rehearsals. I don't think there'll be more than 2 or 3 from CATP.

That leaves, let's say at least 20 tracks that we don't know about. Those 20 could be either more run-of-the-mill tracks or they could be revelatory. ??
What makes you think there’s 116 tracks?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 04, 2021, 12:07:06 PM
So......any news ?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 04, 2021, 12:14:23 PM
Well, there's like 116 tracks (give or take 1 or 2) on this box set.

We know of around 70-80 of them at this stage, what they will be. I'd allow 10 tracks for the 1970 Big Sur show. There could be some rehearsals. I don't think there'll be more than 2 or 3 from CATP.

That leaves, let's say at least 20 tracks that we don't know about. Those 20 could be either more run-of-the-mill tracks or they could be revelatory. ??
What makes you think there’s 116 tracks?

I'm sorry to be vague - I'll dig up my info and post it when I'm at my desktop.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 05, 2021, 07:48:25 AM
Good stuff is coming folks. Nothing is ever certain until we have the thing in our hands/ears, but as much as one can possibly ascertain, good things are coming.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on February 05, 2021, 09:59:02 PM
Good stuff is coming folks. Nothing is ever certain until we have the thing in our hands/ears, but as much as one can possibly ascertain, good things are coming.

Translation: “no word, hints, teasers, or marketing. But uh eventually .. the set will come out. So uh it’s coming.. good things coming. Any day now. Any day I’ll be right. It’s gonna happen. Just wait. You’ll see. Any day now.... “


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 06, 2021, 01:42:02 AM
Good stuff is coming folks. Nothing is ever certain until we have the thing in our hands/ears, but as much as one can possibly ascertain, good things are coming.

Translation: “no word, hints, teasers, or marketing. But uh eventually .. the set will come out. So uh it’s coming.. good things coming. Any day now. Any day I’ll be right. It’s gonna happen. Just wait. You’ll see. Any day now.... “

Let's say any month now . .


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on February 06, 2021, 05:04:55 AM
Sounds exciting, but as usual with the Beach Boys, I believe it when I see it ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on February 06, 2021, 05:12:12 AM
Good stuff is coming folks. Nothing is ever certain until we have the thing in our hands/ears, but as much as one can possibly ascertain, good things are coming.

Translation: “no word, hints, teasers, or marketing. But uh eventually .. the set will come out. So uh it’s coming.. good things coming. Any day now. Any day I’ll be right. It’s gonna happen. Just wait. You’ll see. Any day now.... “

Things have been quiet for damn near a year. And that makes you excited for details?..........

Considering Howie has updated us recently I wouldn’t call it being quiet for a year.

Not sure if you saw Billy’s reply here, rebel. But things haven’t been quiet. And there actually has been word.

Considering how open Howie was about the possible shelving of this project half a year ago, I think he would be shouting from the rooftops if this thing were being shelved again. But rather, we have gotten nothing but positive news about this set from Howie, who is helping create this boxset.

His most latest update on the set, a month and a half ago:

Work continues on.
There's a really good communal vibe regarding the box.

FEEL FLOWS is going to be the perfect soundtrack to 2021.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on February 06, 2021, 10:30:56 AM
Hold on a little longer, guys.
Very cool stuff coming on the horizon.

It's all good, I promise you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 06, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Hold on a little longer, guys.
Very cool stuff coming on the horizon.

It's all good, I promise you.

Thank you!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on February 06, 2021, 12:41:24 PM
Thank you, Howie ❤️ - I guess it's hard for you not to post the full monty ...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 08, 2021, 12:17:06 PM
Hold on a little longer, guys.
Very cool stuff coming on the horizon.

It's all good, I promise you.

I find this vague - are the Beach Boys getting back into merching beachwear again!

Just kidding - thanks Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 08, 2021, 06:45:22 PM
Much appreciated as always Howie 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 09, 2021, 12:56:52 AM
Well, there's like 116 tracks (give or take 1 or 2) on this box set.

We know of around 70-80 of them at this stage, what they will be. I'd allow 10 tracks for the 1970 Big Sur show. There could be some rehearsals. I don't think there'll be more than 2 or 3 from CATP.

That leaves, let's say at least 20 tracks that we don't know about. Those 20 could be either more run-of-the-mill tracks or they could be revelatory. ??
What makes you think there’s 116 tracks?

My bad - I meant 122.

Feel Flows Box Set - prediction
 001   Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song)   3:14sec
 002      
 003   It's About Time   0:50sec
 004      
 005   San Miguel   2:34sec
 006   Good Time   2:56sec
 007      
 008   Carnival (Over The Waves)/Sobra Las Olas   1:34sec
 009   Susie Cincinnati   3:02sec
 010   I Just Got My Pay   2:43sec
 011      
 012      
 013   Soulful Old Man Sunshine   3:14sec
 014   I'm Goin' Your Way   2:24sec
 015      
 016      
 017      
 018   This Whole World   1:41sec
 019   Add Some Music To Your Day   3:27sec
 020   Our Sweet Love   1:00sec
 021   Slip On Through   3:25sec
 022      
 023   This Whole World   3:11sec
 024   Add Some Music To Your Day   4:35sec
 025   Add Some Music To Your Day   3:30sec
 026   Got To Know The Woman   2:55sec
 027   Deirdre   3:35sec
 028   It's About Time   2:53sec
 029   Tears In The Morning   4:13sec
 030   All I Wanna Do   3:46sec
 031   All I Wanna Do   2:58sec
 032      
 033   Forever   2:59sec
 034   Forever   2:52sec
 035   Our Sweet Love   2:39sec
 036   At My Window  [Long version?]   2:51sec
 037   Cool, Cool Water   6:26sec
 038   Loop De Loop (Flip Flop Flyin' In An Aeroplane)   2:49sec
 039   San Miguel   2:59sec
 040   Good Time   4:27sec
 041   When Girls Get Together   1:51sec
 042   Susie Cincinnati   3:04sec
 043   Back Home   2:23sec
 044   Sunflower Promo   1:00sec
 045   This Whole World   1:05sec
 046      
 047   Big Sur   2:36sec
 048   (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again   6:53sec
 049   Seasons In The Sun   3:30sec
 050   Old Movie (Cuddle Up)   3:38sec
 051      
 052      
 053   Sound Of Free   2:22sec
 054      
 055   My Solution   3:44sec
 056   H.E.L.P. Is On The Way   2:31sec
 057   Surf's Up Promo   1:02sec
 058   Don't Go Near The Water   2:42sec
 059   Long Promised Road   3:40sec
 060   A Day In The Life Of A Tree   0:35sec
 061   Good Time   0:19sec
 062   Don't Go Near The Water   3:41sec
 063   Long Promised Road   4:16sec
 064   Take A Load Off Your Feet   2:29sec
 065   Disney Girls (1957)   4:17sec
 066   Student Demonstration Time   3:46sec
 067   Feel Flows   5:02sec
 068   Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)   2:43sec
 069   A Day In The Life Of A Tree   2:54sec
 070   'Til I Die   1:56sec
 071   'Til I Die   2:36sec
 072   'Til I Die   4:47sec
 073   Surf's Up, Pt. 1   1:41sec
 074   Surf's Up   4:08sec
 075   Surf's Up   4:05sec
 076   Sweet And Bitter   2:33sec
 077   Won't You Tell Me   2:01sec
 078   Won't You Tell Me   2:54sec
 079   Settle Down (Sound Of Free)   2:17sec
 080   Medley: All Of My Love/Ecology   5:06sec
 081   Before   2:26sec
 082   You Never Give Me Your Money   0:40sec
 083   Hawaiian Dream   4:34sec
 084   Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian/God Only Knows   2:47sec
 085   I've Got A Friend   2:28sec
 086   Feel Flows   0:35sec
 087   Disney Girls   0:36sec
 088   Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song)   2:46sec
 089   Riot In Cell Block #9   3:31sec
 090   Add Some Music To Your Day   3:22sec
 091   Take A Load Off Your Feet   2:26sec
 092   It's About Time   4:24sec
 093      
 094      
 095      
 096   Susie Cincinnati   2:42sec
 097   Back Home   3:29sec
 098   Student Demonstration Time   4:44sec
 099   Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song)   2:44sec
 100   Celebrate The News   2:34sec
 101   It's Natural   2:35sec
 102   Awake   3:44sec
 103   Walkin'   2:44sec
 104   San Miguel   1:00sec
 105   Baby Baby   3:15sec
 106   My Solution   3:43sec
 107      
 108   Marcella   3:29sec
 109      
 110      
 111      
 112      
 113      
 114      
 115      
 116   'Til I Die   2:11sec
 117      
 118      
 119      
 120      
 121      
 122   Sunflower Promo   1:02sec



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on February 09, 2021, 01:44:51 PM
 :o  Wha'????   :o

Very cool.  But c'mon... you've got to explain why you chose that number of extra tracks, and why you put the blank spots where you put them!   :p


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bryand on February 09, 2021, 05:35:55 PM
These are ISRC (International Standard Recording Code) numbers that Universal Music has created. Typically the ISRC corresponds with the track number. The numbers above were created in late 2020. The missing spots are those ISRC numbers that were not registered in 2020.

I supposed that only time will tell whether tracks are registered for those track numbers or if they get skipped.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 09, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
These are ISRC (International Standard Recording Code) numbers that Universal Music has created. Typically the ISRC corresponds with the track number. The numbers above were created in late 2020. The missing spots are those ISRC numbers that were not registered in 2020.

I supposed that only time will tell whether tracks are registered for those track numbers or if they get skipped.

What bryand said.

Plus I should add that there is also an indication from the same source that a version of Wouldn't It Be Nice first released in 1970 is to be rereleased, hence, Big Sur 1970!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on February 09, 2021, 10:24:15 PM
"Typically corresponds" with the track number, but does the track order that's implied in the listing make much sense? How does it stack up in terms of session chronology? The big place where live tracks could appear in this doesn't seem as though it supports a chronological approach to the material...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 09, 2021, 11:12:09 PM
Not every release of this type is strictly chronological.

I don't know if the promos could turn up as hidden tracks at the end of discs or something like that. I'm not claiming any insider knowledge - I don't have any.

One problem I see with a strict chronological approach is that I personally don't want to listen to 3 versions of the same song in a row. I'll make an exception for Surf's Up and 'Til I Die.

I'm guessing that the blanks are mostly 1971 recorded titles for which no previous release has ever happened and/or live tracks, but I'm guessing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on February 11, 2021, 03:15:16 PM
Very curious to see how the blanks will be filled in.   ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on February 12, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Okay, I've done some calculating.  The set is supposed to be five CD's.  So with about 80 minutes per CD, that adds up to 400 minutes.

And I just tallied all the times on the tracklist above and the total comes out to be about 263 minutes and 20 seconds.

So that leaves 135+ minutes left over.  So we could easily be missing 2 hours and 10+ minutes of music from the set!  That's a lot of material that could be very revelatory!

So, okay, I'm feeling a little better about the prospects for this set.  Thanks again, Howie, for keeping us updated.


PS -- Of course a question many have been asking: is the set going to include remixes of the albums?  I don't know how long each album is, but we would have to subtract those running lengths from the total above.  I, for one, hope that they don't include remixes of the albums in the set, because I want more room for unreleased material, sessions, and backing and vocal tracks.  Of course it would be nice if they would rerelease the albums separately with new mixes!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega





Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on February 17, 2021, 10:53:43 AM
Every day I come here waiting for news. Having bought the '93 set on the day of issue, which was also described in similar terms to 'game changer', I can say I'm equally excited for this one.

What a fruitful period this was. Brian was very active still, Dennis was reaching maturity as a composer, and there was stellar input from the rest of the band. The title of the set, with its recognition of Carl as a creative force is well deserved, and overdue in the public eye,

I find this period was also when Dennis reached his apex as a vocalist, his controlled raggedness which Brian had always valued and used to great effect, coming to the fore on tracks such as Lady, and Wouldn't it be nice to Live Again. If there are some previously unknown tracks containing Dennis at his vocal peak, then this set will be a treasure indeed!

Also, if the new mixes are of the calibre of the San Miguel remix which Mark debuted for us a year or so back, then we're in for a treat, although in the case of Sunflower I'm not sure how Stephen Desper's mixes can be improved on. (I could write poetry about that mix). It will be great to hear any more Sunflower backing tracks and vox only

Very exciting.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aegir on February 18, 2021, 09:34:10 AM
Looking forward to those "Landlocked" tracks being on Spotify so I can listen to I Just Got My Pay on demand.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on February 18, 2021, 02:21:15 PM
So, we were waiting on Irving Azoff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 18, 2021, 03:42:56 PM
So, we were waiting on Irving Azoff.

No.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on February 19, 2021, 02:00:22 AM
  Having bought the '93 set on the day of issue, which was also described in similar terms to 'game changer' ...
I happened to be visiting EMI's UK factory while they were pressing it!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 20, 2021, 04:27:26 PM
Okay, I've done some calculating.  The set is supposed to be five CD's.  So with about 80 minutes per CD, that adds up to 400 minutes.

And I just tallied all the times on the tracklist above and the total comes out to be about 263 minutes and 20 seconds.

So that leaves 135+ minutes left over.  So we could easily be missing 2 hours and 10+ minutes of music from the set!  That's a lot of material that could be very revelatory!

So, okay, I'm feeling a little better about the prospects for this set.  Thanks again, Howie, for keeping us updated.


PS -- Of course a question many have been asking: is the set going to include remixes of the albums?  I don't know how long each album is, but we would have to subtract those running lengths from the total above.  I, for one, hope that they don't include remixes of the albums in the set, because I want more room for unreleased material, sessions, and backing and vocal tracks.  Of course it would be nice if they would rerelease the albums separately with new mixes!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega





Good work Dan.

I count 29 blanks [see previous page] - so that averages just over 3 minutes per unknown track, about what you'd expect. Plus I stopped at 122 because there are no entries above that in the ISRC numbering registered yet, but that doesn't mean that there might not be a few numbered above 122 which are yet to be registered. A very real possibility. - Maybe that solves the mystery regarding the live disc - but maybe it's just a short show, not a full live disc. It would also mean the average length comes down.

I've got my fingers crossed for this to be released before my next big holiday which will be mid-May. Relaxing on the beach, listening to the Beach Boys sounds like a plan.  :)

I personally think that if they re-remaster the albums again, then they will be separate releases. I mean let's face it, if you're buying this box, you've probably got two or three releases of Sunflower and Surf's Up already in your collection. [Some smileysmilers might even have as many as ten of each!]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on February 20, 2021, 09:51:50 PM
I just don’t get why there is literally zero marketing or word of mouth. This is realistically aimed at the hardcore fans. Why be so in the dark about it? Hopefully the new entity buying the group will be better - because this is pathetic. Who cares if we are lucky/privileged enough to know the release date or track listing ‘early’. Not like anyone but US will buy it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on February 21, 2021, 12:30:14 AM
I just don’t get why there is literally zero marketing or word of mouth. This is realistically aimed at the hardcore fans. Why be so in the dark about it? Hopefully the new entity buying the group will be better - because this is pathetic. Who cares if we are lucky/privileged enough to know the release date or track listing ‘early’. Not like anyone but US will buy it.

I don't think it's been officially announced yet. It's only through word of mouth that we know anything about it. I join you however in hoping there is a good marketing strategy in place for when it is announced, because as Howie has stated more than once, people NEED to hear this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 21, 2021, 01:14:18 AM
I have faith everything’s gonna work out just fine....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on February 21, 2021, 01:01:23 PM
Rebel, the new entity buying the group is logically the reason for there not being any word yet.

Also, the last time The Beach Boys released a major studio-album boxset they pushed the release date back about 2-3 times. So with The Beach Boys possibly remembering that incident they're perhaps making sure this thing is 100% completed before any official word gets out. And I realize that Feel Flows was apparently all ready to go over the summer, but Howie mentioned late-November that he did a recent interview with Brian for the project - so apparently they were adding more to the project post-summer (even if it was just more interview material).

Regardless, since Howie hasn't been raising any alarm bells I am confident that things are going smoothly behind the scenes. But it is awesome to see a lot of excitement for the set! Can't wait to hear this music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on February 22, 2021, 08:16:07 AM
I just don’t get why there is literally zero marketing or word of mouth. This is realistically aimed at the hardcore fans. Why be so in the dark about it? Hopefully the new entity buying the group will be better - because this is pathetic. Who cares if we are lucky/privileged enough to know the release date or track listing ‘early’. Not like anyone but US will buy it.

Well, there's plenty word of mouth among the hardcore fans on the boards. That's how we advocated for the set last year.

As explained in the ten thousand posts earlier in this thread, the whole situation was sensitive and it was only late last year that things finally got freed up to let this thing come out. That's essentially when the timeline for the release sort of re-started.

You don't know a release date, so you don't know when any sort of promotional campaign or press release with details would be coming. They've *never* announced track listings like six or nine months before a release.

We all want this thing out. We all know about it, and hopefully even more will know about it when the time is right.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on February 22, 2021, 05:28:26 PM
Was Van Dyke Parks interviewed for the set? A while ago, he indicated on Twitter that no interview took place. Maybe one took place since?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on February 25, 2021, 10:40:37 PM
Losing hope


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 26, 2021, 07:15:00 AM
Losing hope

(https://i.imgur.com/9qsnlOs.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 26, 2021, 07:15:03 PM
Was Van Dyke Parks interviewed for the set? A while ago, he indicated on Twitter that no interview took place. Maybe one took place since?

Not sure Van Dyke's input to the 1970-71 works was particularly massive - I dare say he was trying to avoid the Beach Boys scene at that time - but it's entirely possible that I should go back and have a read of the relevant literature on that.

[I know that a couple of SMiLE remnants surfaced on Sunflower & Surf's Up, but I doubt Van Dyke was consulted or had any involvement].


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: All Summer Long on February 26, 2021, 08:26:17 PM
Was Van Dyke Parks interviewed for the set? A while ago, he indicated on Twitter that no interview took place. Maybe one took place since?

Not sure Van Dyke's input to the 1970-71 works was particularly massive - I dare say he was trying to avoid the Beach Boys scene at that time - but it's entirely possible that I should go back and have a read of the relevant literature on that.

[I know that a couple of SMiLE remnants surfaced on Sunflower & Surf's Up, but I doubt Van Dyke was consulted or had any involvement].

As far as I know, he helped convince Warner/Reprise to sign the band, IIRC.  That could be fairly important, and he could also have stories regarding "A Day in the Life of a Tree" (or "Sail On, Sailor" if a 1971 version has been located in the vaults).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on February 27, 2021, 01:31:12 PM
Was Van Dyke Parks interviewed for the set? A while ago, he indicated on Twitter that no interview took place. Maybe one took place since?

Not sure Van Dyke's input to the 1970-71 works was particularly massive - I dare say he was trying to avoid the Beach Boys scene at that time - but it's entirely possible that I should go back and have a read of the relevant literature on that.

[I know that a couple of SMiLE remnants surfaced on Sunflower & Surf's Up, but I doubt Van Dyke was consulted or had any involvement].

As far as I know, he helped convince Warner/Reprise to sign the band, IIRC.  That could be fairly important, and he could also have stories regarding "A Day in the Life of a Tree" (or "Sail On, Sailor" if a 1971 version has been located in the vaults).

True, and if the early demo of Sail On Sailor forms any part of this set, then that alone would justify an interview with him.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ed Roach on February 28, 2021, 01:05:01 PM
For some reason I haven't been able to log in here forever... It's nice to be back, especially at such a promising time


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on February 28, 2021, 01:26:12 PM
Welcome back, Ed! It's good to see you here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on February 28, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Hi Ed....does your welcome return perhaps pre-empt any imminent, official news on the Feel Flows box set?

Here’s hoping.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 01, 2021, 08:18:02 AM
For some reason I haven't been able to log in here forever... It's nice to be back, especially at such a promising time


Welcome back, Ed! I was wondering if you'd left the board. Good to see you again


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on March 01, 2021, 10:25:38 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeLoveOFCL/status/1366449288063184896

 : )


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 01, 2021, 11:06:31 AM
Thats something I guess.

Press Release would be nice


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on March 01, 2021, 11:32:36 AM
Thats something I guess.

Press Release would be nice

This is Mike Love advertising a WORLD TOUR for the boxset. It is more than something - it is confirmation that everyone is 100% onboard with the release of this set in 2021. They can't really go back now, so we're getting the set. This is huge news for any doubters and naysayers. Yes a press release would be phenomenal, but this is confirmation that we will be getting a press release soon (it's already March and 2021 is already flying by...before you know it we'll all be dusting off our CD players and cranking up the hi-fi sets, listening to the music and reading the incredible booklet that will accompany this set).

Ever since Howie gave us the good news (and especially since his last update in November) I've been completely confident we'd be seeing this set. I hope that Mike Love announcing a world tour for the set would be just as good news to everyone else.

edit: as1972, thanks for sharing that! This is truly wonderful to hear.

Makes me wonder if Brian will start doing a show or two to promote this set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 01, 2021, 12:11:32 PM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: peoplewitheyes on March 01, 2021, 12:35:03 PM
A 'world tour'??  In 2021?  Where the hell is he going to play?

ah, I see now it's a world tour of Florida...  Seems to make sense now :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on March 01, 2021, 01:48:11 PM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.

It is at least an improvement on Mike's flat out denial during our despondent phase.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on March 01, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.

And that is why I propose we lock the thread now and don't discuss anything else about it. Even when we get a tracklist, or when it is released, there will be no point discussing it since we already knew the set was on track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 01, 2021, 01:58:39 PM
Regarding Mike, we've known since late last year that everybody is on board for (or at least nobody is blocking) the "Feel Flows" set. I don't think we need a Mike tour title to tell us that.

As far as Mike touring, last year was a pretty strong indication that Mike *will* play gigs during this pandemic in areas where they'll have his show, and under any guidelines (or lack of guidelines in some cases) required.

Mike's touring band publicizing archival Beach Boys product has always been kind of conflicting and weird for a lot of fans. But he's been doing it for ages, so, so be it.

As for discussing the FF set, we're not children. We don't need to lock the thread discussing a high profile archival boxed set. This isn't a "guess the tracklisting!" thread. It's a thread to discuss it, both before and certainly *after* it comes out. To discuss the lobbying for its release, as well as the actual content once we know what's on it. In what world would there be no point in discussing the set once it comes out? That's what the in-depth discussions *start*. In the meantime, if someone can't handle *not* being given a release date or tracklisting *right now*, then you can always skip the thread.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: NateRuvin on March 01, 2021, 03:05:40 PM
Mike and co announcing the Feel Flows world tour is the closest thing we've gotten to an official announcement from the band yet. Very promising. I have plans to see the band multiple times this summer, really hoping I can.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 01, 2021, 03:57:54 PM
Thats something I guess.

Press Release would be nice

This is Mike Love advertising a WORLD TOUR for the boxset. It is more than something - it is confirmation that everyone is 100% onboard with the release of this set in 2021. They can't really go back now, so we're getting the set. This is huge news for any doubters and naysayers. Yes a press release would be phenomenal, but this is confirmation that we will be getting a press release soon (it's already March and 2021 is already flying by...before you know it we'll all be dusting off our CD players and cranking up the hi-fi sets, listening to the music and reading the incredible booklet that will accompany this set).

Ever since Howie gave us the good news (and especially since his last update in November) I've been completely confident we'd be seeing this set. I hope that Mike Love announcing a world tour for the set would be just as good news to everyone else.

edit: as1972, thanks for sharing that! This is truly wonderful to hear.

Makes me wonder if Brian will start doing a show or two to promote this set.

Doesn't help getting the word out that the box set is coming to anyone but the hardcores

Not being negative but now would be a great time to get the promotion machine working


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on March 01, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
This thread will not be locked.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 01, 2021, 06:54:06 PM
Agreed


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on March 02, 2021, 05:55:23 AM
Mike and co announcing the Feel Flows world tour is the closest thing we've gotten to an official announcement from the band yet.

Exactly. This was the point of my previous post. I personally have full confidence this set is coming out and realize that everyone was already on board for set’s release (per Howie’s posts last year). But to those recently doubting this set’s existence and possibility of release, this tour announcement should give everyone 100% confirmation - especially since at least one person was previously doubting the confirmation from Howie in this thread.
_____

Shady, I guess I’m just tired of seeing people being so pessimistic about this release. And to be fair, I’m sure I’ve said some pessimistic things in this very thread so I’m not trying to point fingers. But at this stage, I think we should just be grateful that people in the band are officially acknowledging the set (or the name of the set in an official capacity). Just 6+ months ago we were being told this set’s release wasn’t looking good and it had been shelved. Now Mike Love is announcing a Feel Flows tour. I’m sure soon enough we’ll be getting official word and details about the set itself.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on March 02, 2021, 06:41:32 AM
"This isn't a "guess the tracklisting!" thread."

of course it can and should be, whimsey, speculation knowledgeable or otherwise, wish lists are a good part of discussion process


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 02, 2021, 08:34:04 AM
"This isn't a "guess the tracklisting!" thread."

of course it can and should be, whimsey, speculation knowledgeable or otherwise, wish lists are a good part of discussion process



I'm looking forward to when it becomes a "see the tracklisting!" thread.

Followed closely by a "salivate over the tracklisting!" thread.

Then a "hear the tracklisting!" thread."

Then a few more hundred pages of discussion before this thread sinks under the screens horizon, gone but not forgotten, much like the Smile box thread.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on March 02, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
As mentioned in the BB tour thread. Surely not a coincidence unless you have something you want to promote.

https://m.facebook.com/TheAmpSA/photos/gm.909602983136526/10158491002561996/?type=3&source=44


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 02, 2021, 11:39:44 AM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.


IIRC when "Sunshine Tomorrow" came out, Mike&Bruce did their Wild Honey tour, but didn't really play anything from that album apart from "Darlin'" and "Wild Honey". Possibly "Aren't you glad" a couple of times but I may be wrong on that.
So, while I agree that them calling the tour "Feel Flows" is a good sign for the release of the set, I don't necessarily expect Mike&Bruce doing a lot of songs from it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 02, 2021, 02:27:16 PM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.


IIRC when "Sunshine Tomorrow" came out, Mike&Bruce did their Wild Honey tour, but didn't really play anything from that album apart from "Darlin'" and "Wild Honey". Possibly "Aren't you glad" a couple of times but I may be wrong on that.
So, while I agree that them calling the tour "Feel Flows" is a good sign for the release of the set, I don't necessarily expect Mike&Bruce doing a lot of songs from it.

Exactly; it seems to be more commonplace for some artists to need to "title" their tours. McCartney does it too, he just picks seemingly random, sometimes awkward sounding tour titles ("Freshen Up Tour"?), whereas it seems like Mike's tour just sometimes grabs a song or album that is celebrating an anniversary, and uses that title. I wouldn't expect Mike to run though like most of the "Surf's Up" album or anything.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on March 02, 2021, 08:40:31 PM
Absolutely--this is an epic thread that has wandered like a vine relentlessly in search of that lucky old sun, maneuvering around every impediment, hitting hard at the battles that confronted it, throwing off all the roadblocks stumbling it, flipping itself over and turning into unfolding, enveloping missiles of soul! You don't close down a thread like that...you just let it keep rolling, rolling, rolling on...and when all is finally revealed, when we know every nook and cranny of the material, and we've discussed all of its salient details, then we'll just let it take a long, deep breath of that country air...surrounded by the beauty of the everywhere that will be all around us.

And who knows--Mike & Bruce might just play "Don't Go Near the Water," "Disney Girls," "'Til I Die," "Big Sur," and "All I Wanna Do." And then we'll have world peace...

 :3d


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 03, 2021, 07:57:13 AM
Well, Mike&Bruce did play "All I wanna do", "Forever" (though with Stamos), "Disney Girle (1957)", and I believe even "Surf's Up" in concert, so who knows. I was just trying to keep the expectations down based on the Wild Honey tour.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on March 03, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Well, Mike&Bruce did play "All I wanna do", "Forever" (though with Stamos), "Disney Girle (1957)", and I believe even "Surf's Up" in concert, so who knows. I was just trying to keep the expectations down based on the Wild Honey tour.

I don't believe I've seen a Mike and Bruce Surf's Up (Though the whole touring band did participate in the Fendertones rendition), but 'Til I Die was part of their setlist a while back.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 03, 2021, 08:28:48 AM
Well, Mike&Bruce did play "All I wanna do", "Forever" (though with Stamos), "Disney Girle (1957)", and I believe even "Surf's Up" in concert, so who knows. I was just trying to keep the expectations down based on the Wild Honey tour.

I don't believe I've seen a Mike and Bruce Surf's Up (Though the whole touring band did participate in the Fendertones rendition), but 'Til I Die was part of their setlist a while back.


Yes, I forgot about "'Til I die".
I'm not sure they played "Surf's Up". Maybe I mixed it up with the Fendertones' version. But in my mind I somehow seem to remember them doing that song with Jeff Foskett. Again, I could be wrong about that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on March 03, 2021, 08:56:24 AM
I saw them do Surf's Up at the Royal Albert Hall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 03, 2021, 12:55:46 PM
Great - I come for box set news and read all this malarky about Mike's touring band.

I thought there are other threads to discuss each of the touring groups.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 05, 2021, 03:04:30 AM
What are people's thoughts on the timeframe for this?

This is based solely on wishful thinking, but if this is to be a summer release,  we should hopefully hear an official announcement in April. I'm expecting some nice unboxing promo films similar to what was released during the Smile set announcement. Like Smile, I hope we also get some webisodes, accompanied by a trickle of track teases


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Junkstar on March 05, 2021, 06:47:16 AM
Ask Irving Azoff. He's in charge now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 05, 2021, 07:23:05 AM
Ask Irving Azoff. He's in charge now.

Just trying to get a positive discussion going.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 05, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Ask Irving Azoff. He's in charge now.

Just trying to get a positive discussion going.  :)

I'm still hopeful of a May release date, but really June seems a bit more likely.

Given that Mike's Feel Flows tour is in May maybe that points to a May release. I also seem to recall that a May date may have been mentioned a little way back, probably after the Azoff deal was done but before it was publicly announced.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on March 06, 2021, 11:22:16 PM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.


IIRC when "Sunshine Tomorrow" came out, Mike&Bruce did their Wild Honey tour, but didn't really play anything from that album apart from "Darlin'" and "Wild Honey". Possibly "Aren't you glad" a couple of times but I may be wrong on that.
So, while I agree that them calling the tour "Feel Flows" is a good sign for the release of the set, I don't necessarily expect Mike&Bruce doing a lot of songs from it.

Exactly; it seems to be more commonplace for some artists to need to "title" their tours. McCartney does it too, he just picks seemingly random, sometimes awkward sounding tour titles ("Freshen Up Tour"?), whereas it seems like Mike's tour just sometimes grabs a song or album that is celebrating an anniversary, and uses that title. I wouldn't expect Mike to run though like most of the "Surf's Up" album or anything.
I don't know exactly when or where this naming a tour stuff started. I seriously doubt when Bob Dylan/The Band tour in 1974 they were calling it the Before the Flood tour. It just got called that AFTER the live album bearing that name came out.
I saw Paul Revere and the Raiders at the Tacoma Dome back in 1997, and they were selling shirts calling it the Refuse to Go Away Tour. lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on March 07, 2021, 07:29:10 AM
We'd been told several times since the new year that the box set was on track.

That Mike is touring a Feel Flows tour really adds nothing to what we knew.


IIRC when "Sunshine Tomorrow" came out, Mike&Bruce did their Wild Honey tour, but didn't really play anything from that album apart from "Darlin'" and "Wild Honey". Possibly "Aren't you glad" a couple of times but I may be wrong on that.
So, while I agree that them calling the tour "Feel Flows" is a good sign for the release of the set, I don't necessarily expect Mike&Bruce doing a lot of songs from it.

Exactly; it seems to be more commonplace for some artists to need to "title" their tours. McCartney does it too, he just picks seemingly random, sometimes awkward sounding tour titles ("Freshen Up Tour"?), whereas it seems like Mike's tour just sometimes grabs a song or album that is celebrating an anniversary, and uses that title. I wouldn't expect Mike to run though like most of the "Surf's Up" album or anything.
I don't know exactly when or where this naming a tour stuff started. I seriously doubt when Bob Dylan/The Band tour in 1974 they were calling it the Before the Flood tour. It just got called that AFTER the live album bearing that name came out.
I saw Paul Revere and the Raiders at the Tacoma Dome back in 1997, and they were selling shirts calling it the Refuse to Go Away Tour. lol

The Beach Boys' summer '64 tour was titled the "Summer Safari" tour. Maybe they were the first to name a tour?  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Summer_Days on March 07, 2021, 11:11:09 AM
Well, Motown did package tour with multiple groups and solo artists called the Motortown Revue starting in the beginning of the ‘60s. Only thing I can think of that compares.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Summer_Days on March 07, 2021, 11:11:41 AM
edit: sorry, accidental double post


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on March 08, 2021, 12:30:37 AM
x


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on March 08, 2021, 12:31:22 AM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...

I'd put an instrumental & backing vocal mix of 'Trader" at or near the top of things that I would most like to hear. Uncanny backing vocals on that lovely song. Anyone listening?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on March 08, 2021, 07:02:41 AM
Isolated tracks for many of the tunes in the CATP/HOLLAND phase would be most welcome, with "The Trader" at or near the top of the list. (But I think that's for a follow-up set and not for FEEL FLOWS...)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 08, 2021, 08:11:53 AM
As excited as I am about this set, the next one should be even better...

I'd put an instrumental & backing vocal mix of 'Trader" at or near the top of things that I would most like to hear. Uncanny backing vocals on that lovely song. Anyone listening?



Incredible song (music AND lyrics) and production! Any outtakes and/or mixes would be great


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 08, 2021, 03:46:55 PM
Only OT post from me but that comment about the next set reminds me I need to hurry up and put my  re-EQ’D/mix of the So Tough and Holland albums up on YouTube before the next copyright extension gets them taken down!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on March 10, 2021, 07:16:01 PM
Isolated tracks for many of the tunes in the CATP/HOLLAND phase would be most welcome, with "The Trader" at or near the top of the list. (But I think that's for a follow-up set and not for FEEL FLOWS...)

Obviously.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on March 12, 2021, 01:18:02 PM
https://twitter.com/beachboyslegacy/status/1290814686867476480/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/beachboyslegacy/status/1290814686867476480/photo/1)
Not mine, but thought I'd share.

Also, I remember seeing some fan made box set mock-ups of The Beach Boys Love You and some of their other albums somewhere online.  Anyone out there know where I can find those again?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: echomatic on March 12, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
https://twitter.com/beachboyslegacy/status/1290814686867476480/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/beachboyslegacy/status/1290814686867476480/photo/1)
Not mine, but thought I'd share.

Also, I remember seeing some fan made box set mock-ups of The Beach Boys Love You and some of their other albums somewhere online.  Anyone out there know where I can find those again?

Are you thinking of "Ear Candy"?
https://www.earcandymag.com/smilemerchandise-1211.htm



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on March 12, 2021, 04:43:21 PM
I remember seeing that stuff but I'm talking about other albums having deluxe box sets.  I recall a "Love You" one for sure.  May have even been created by someone else on this board...?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on March 12, 2021, 08:20:28 PM
On YouTube there's an interview with Brian from 1974 that I don't think I'd ever heard before.  I post it here because Brian mentions writing some songs with Roger McGuinn, and I'm hoping Howie, Mark, and Alan can find them and put them on an upcoming boxed set!   ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVdj_AC60ls&t=16s


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on March 13, 2021, 04:48:54 AM
In the “Echo Canyon” film, Roger Mcguinn says that every time Brian sees him, Brian says “Ding Dang!”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on March 13, 2021, 04:59:49 AM
I remember seeing that stuff but I'm talking about other albums having deluxe box sets.  I recall a "Love You" one for sure.  May have even been created by someone else on this board...?

Judd made some really amazing mock-ups many years ago. I couldn't find the Love You set though - not sure if he did that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.


(http://i.imgur.com/90ZMEpe.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Vycmwmn.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nPHNlO3.jpg)

(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/SupremeKingDan/TheTodaySessions_zps41684045.jpg)

(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/SupremeKingDan/TheSunflowerSessions_zpsbe26012b.jpg)

(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/SupremeKingDan/TheFriendsSessions_zpsab5985c1.jpg)

And an oldie but a goodie. Oh the good 'ol days...

(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/SupremeKingDan/OSD2_zpsd3eb089d.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on March 13, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
Mike's touring band publicizing archival Beach Boys product has always been kind of conflicting and weird for a lot of fans. But he's been doing it for ages, so, so be it.

You mean The Beach Boys?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on March 13, 2021, 11:03:20 AM
Mike's touring band publicizing archival Beach Boys product has always been kind of conflicting and weird for a lot of fans. But he's been doing it for ages, so, so be it.

You mean The Beach Boys?
If you go to the Beach Boys' official site, all the show are credited to Mike Love, not The Beach Boys.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/events


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on March 13, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Mike's touring band publicizing archival Beach Boys product has always been kind of conflicting and weird for a lot of fans. But he's been doing it for ages, so, so be it.

You mean The Beach Boys?
If you go to the Beach Boys' official site, all the show are credited to Mike Love, not The Beach Boys.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/events

Yet when you click on the ticket links, they say 'The Beach Boys'. Very interesting that MIKE LOVE is written next to each show.

As for what HeyJude said, Mike Love does tour under his own name with the same band - and those shows have used some archival Beach Boys pictures as promotion in the past.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on March 13, 2021, 12:01:04 PM
In response to rab2591, that's what I was talking about.  Thanks! :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on March 13, 2021, 03:57:43 PM
On another board there's been talk of some box set release on Amazon, but with no title, names or anything. Anyone?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on March 13, 2021, 03:58:42 PM

If you go to the Beach Boys' official site, all the show are credited to Mike Love, not The Beach Boys.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/events

Heard of the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson - but who's that guy Mike Love??

(Pun intended...)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on March 13, 2021, 03:59:33 PM
There's been talk about upcoming box sets - anyone know if they are in the works??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on March 13, 2021, 04:05:33 PM
I remember seeing that stuff but I'm talking about other albums having deluxe box sets.  I recall a "Love You" one for sure.  May have even been created by someone else on this board...?

Judd made some really amazing mock-ups many years ago. I couldn't find the Love You set though - not sure if he did that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.


Wow, never heard of or seen before - still I consider myself a die-hard fan - ever since 1965...
Are they still available??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on March 14, 2021, 03:13:29 AM
Mike's touring band publicizing archival Beach Boys product has always been kind of conflicting and weird for a lot of fans. But he's been doing it for ages, so, so be it.

You mean The Beach Boys?
If you go to the Beach Boys' official site, all the show are credited to Mike Love, not The Beach Boys.
https://www.thebeachboys.com/events



I think it's possible that this is just for the website. It looks like the Beach Boys' online presentation will get a big update because of the selling of their copyrights etc., so I guess that their website will contain tour dates for all variations and that therefor it will be mentioned on the website which of the Beach Boys will be part of the individual show so that nobody would expect to see the full Beach Boys band when it's just Mike and Bruce or Brian, Al and Blondie. But of course this is just a guess from my side. I'm just not expecting Mike not being allowed anymore to tour under the Beach Boys' name, that's why I'm hesitating to read more into this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 14, 2021, 05:41:57 PM
That amazon thing is interesting. Remember it was the same with the smile sessions.. just popped up on amazon one day


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 15, 2021, 04:36:28 AM
That amazon thing is interesting. Remember it was the same with the smile sessions.. just popped up on amazon one day

I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on March 15, 2021, 02:19:26 PM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on March 15, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?

nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on March 15, 2021, 04:47:34 PM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?

nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]

Care to post a link? I can't find it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on March 15, 2021, 08:58:50 PM
nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]
Care to post a link? I can't find it.

Certainly, here's the Amazon Japan versions:

5-disc: https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08TZK8TTR (https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08TZK8TTR)
EAN : 0602435443126
ASIN : B08TZK8TTR

2-disc: https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08VCL54XX (https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08VCL54XX)
EAN : 0602435444871
ASIN : B08VCL54XX

There's very little info on their International Article Numbers/UPCs, but searching the EANs at https://gepir.gs1.org/index.php/search-by-gtin (https://gepir.gs1.org/index.php/search-by-gtin) confirms it's a Universal Music Group release. By no means any kind of proof, but I suppose anything's possible until we learn more.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 15, 2021, 10:58:01 PM
Just give us a preorder already!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 16, 2021, 12:34:36 AM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?

nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]

Care to post a link? I can't find it.

UK site is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on March 17, 2021, 12:57:16 AM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?

nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]

Care to post a link? I can't find it.

UK site is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
£80 seems potentially steep, but I put in a preorder for that Amazon price guarantee. I can always cancel anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on March 17, 2021, 11:46:51 AM
Hope I can write an article update soon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on March 17, 2021, 01:32:14 PM
I ordered it. They won't charge me till it ships, and if it turns out to be the Bucks Fizz Box set, I'll just cancel it. Best case scenario, I get Feel Flows on release day for the price-locked price.

Is there a link to this mystery Amazon box set?

nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]

Care to post a link? I can't find it.

UK site is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
nvm, I found it. Looks like Amazon pulled it for sale in Japan, UK and Australia, and it's completely memory-holed in the US site. But it is both a 5CD box and 2CD set coming from Universal Music Group in June, so... [fingers crossed]
Care to post a link? I can't find it.

Certainly, here's the Amazon Japan versions:

5-disc: https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08TZK8TTR (https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08TZK8TTR)
EAN : 0602435443126
ASIN : B08TZK8TTR

2-disc: https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08VCL54XX (https://www.amazon.co.jp/TBC/dp/B08VCL54XX)
EAN : 0602435444871
ASIN : B08VCL54XX

There's very little info on their International Article Numbers/UPCs, but searching the EANs at https://gepir.gs1.org/index.php/search-by-gtin (https://gepir.gs1.org/index.php/search-by-gtin) confirms it's a Universal Music Group release. By no means any kind of proof, but I suppose anything's possible until we learn more.

Thank you. I preordered it from A.UK *fingers crossed*


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on March 18, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Thank you. I preordered it from A.UK *fingers crossed*

Do you live in the UK? I live in the US and preorder keeps telling me that they won't ship to my US address.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on March 18, 2021, 10:34:42 AM
What's the advantage in pre-ordering this way, before the set is officially announced?

I live in the US, so the option isn't available to me, but I'm wondering why the rush.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 18, 2021, 11:19:10 AM
How are you guys even pre-ordering. It just says "currently unavailable" for me
 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on March 18, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
What's the advantage in pre-ordering this way, before the set is officially announced?

Literally none.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on March 18, 2021, 03:19:40 PM
What's the advantage in pre-ordering this way, before the set is officially announced?

I live in the US, so the option isn't available to me, but I'm wondering why the rush.
Amazon’s preorder price guarantee means you’ll only get charged the lowest price it’s listed at before they ship it to you. Should there be a freak drop (and believe me, it’s happened), you don’t want to have missed that. Also, if I change my mind, they won’t charge until it ships, so I can cancel quite happily. So if it’s going to cost me roughly the same as my local shop, I’ll order it local.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on March 18, 2021, 04:05:43 PM
How are you guys even pre-ordering. It just says "currently unavailable" for me
 

The ability to preorder on the UK and Japanese sites is dependent on the geolocational data of your IP address -- I was able to get a preorder button on Amazon UK by accessing via a VPN. But then Amazon also won't let you preorder unless your delivery address matches that country. So if you live somewhere else, you're S.O.L. until its officially announced.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on March 18, 2021, 05:11:11 PM
Amazon’s preorder price guarantee means you’ll only get charged the lowest price it’s listed at before they ship it to you. Should there be a freak drop (and believe me, it’s happened), you don’t want to have missed that.

Isn't that the way regular pre-ordering works once the product has officially been announced? At least that's how it's worked for me -- lowest price from the point at which you pre-order.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on March 18, 2021, 06:38:07 PM
Thank you. I preordered it from A.UK *fingers crossed*

Do you live in the UK? I live in the US and preorder keeps telling me that they won't ship to my US address.

I am in the US but I am fortunate to have a contact over there who regularly receives for me (usually Doctor Who related stuff) and forwards them to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on March 19, 2021, 02:18:09 PM
Amazon’s preorder price guarantee means you’ll only get charged the lowest price it’s listed at before they ship it to you. Should there be a freak drop (and believe me, it’s happened), you don’t want to have missed that.

Isn't that the way regular pre-ordering works once the product has officially been announced? At least that's how it's worked for me -- lowest price from the point at which you pre-order.

Oh, of course, but Amazon is the place that has the whackiest price fluctuations going.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 23, 2021, 11:51:32 AM
Need my feel flows box set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 23, 2021, 07:54:50 PM
Need my feel flows box set

Maybe spending some time with your Smile Sessions or Made in California box sets will tide you over until you can get your fix (or even your Capitol Years or 30 Years of Good Vibrations box sets might help).

I'm just guessing we've got say, 11 or 12 weeks to go.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on March 24, 2021, 08:42:50 AM
July 22 according to Mr Desper (source Endless Harmony board)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 24, 2021, 11:36:26 AM
Good to have a date. The wait continues


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 24, 2021, 01:12:39 PM
July 22 according to Mr Desper (source Endless Harmony board)

Well that's a little disappointing - but I'm certain it will be well worth the wait.

Great also that Desper is in the loop, which might indicate he's had substantial involvement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on March 24, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
Given that’s not a Friday, it won’t  be coming out that day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: quad73 on March 25, 2021, 08:35:07 AM
From Stephen Desper

"Modern use of a multi-track is just to use it for stacking tracks. I did not use the multi-track stage like most. For me it was just a means to an end -- the Master Mix 2-channel Stereo Mix. Therefore my multi-tracks cannot be used for re-mixing because about 30% of the Stereo Mix is via re-amping and cannot be duplicated, the Multi-track is full of cuts and some of the oxide is wiped. In some parts multiple lead tracks were used and only Carl knows which tracks are "on" at which time or what to use and what to discard. Further, other tracks were distend to be processed through any of several matrix topologies, no longer available.

The best hearing of Sunflower and Surf's Up are from my book Recording The Beach Boys in which these albums are resolved through the final matrix and the source is from the original Mastering Sessions under Carl Wilson and my direction.  All other masterings and/or so-called re-mix attempts would not reflect the tonal and mastering directions of The Beach Boys -- thus would not be "produced by The Beach Boys," but someone else who was probably not even alive at the time these albums were recorded.    

My Book will be posted as a study-video in about three or four weeks at this message board. If you connect your computer to a good 2-channel stereo sound system, you will hear a virtual surround mix as it was originally intended to be heard by the producers. I.E., the sound will be unlike anything you have heard before. 

The release date for Feel Flows box set is July 22, 2021"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on March 25, 2021, 10:15:38 AM
The release date for Feel Flows box set is July 22, 2021"

Maybe he means 2022. July 22, 2022 indeed is a Friday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 25, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Just pointing out that this thread will be 500 days old next week. What a journey it's been!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 26, 2021, 05:40:34 AM
For what it’s worth, my band’s recent 50 track compilation was released by us on our BandCamp site on a Friday...but retailers put it up on a Tuesday. Course they then had the nerve to price  it at ten bucks or less and slap “Deluxe Edition” on the title 🤬


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on March 26, 2021, 08:01:28 AM
I got all excited there as page 124 opened....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 26, 2021, 09:07:07 AM
I got all excited there as page 124 opened....

Just wait till we hit 125


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on March 26, 2021, 09:14:49 AM
Stephen Desper just posted this at EH

Quote
COMMENT:    NO ONE has consulted me at any time on liner notes, tape tracks, or perhaps issuing SF and SU resolved through the matrix. To me it seems an ideal time to break with tradition and bring theses albums into the 21st century with a proper mastering -- but nothing. So far, Recording The Beach Boys is the only source for hearing these albums as Carl and I heard them at mixdown; resolved through the playback matrix. And also the only source to hear both albums actually mastered by Carl and myself . . . not some staff engineer who wasn't even around when the albums were made.

Alan, who was reviewing the liner notes, called me to ask what type of echo device was in use for the mixdowns at The House Studio.  Seems Alan had forgotten that there was an acoustic chamber used at The House Studio. He said he wrote in the liner notes that it was a plate echo device. That's the EMT Plate Echo system, which did not exist at Bellagio. Al called on the last day for printed changes to the liner notes. After some discussion, I could see that the liner notes may contain some false information -- MAY, as I have not seen anything. Al said I was quoted in the liner notes and I informed him of my copyrighted book of 553 pages . . . and that no one has passed the liner notes across my eyes for review -- which if there is infringement, we don't want cease & desist letters screwing up the release time-line. Soon thereafter, BB lawyer Jerry Shilling and I entered into telephone discussions. But since we were then talking after the press date for changes, we just left it open, so we shall see. 

In our conversations, both Alan and Jerry cited July 22, 2021 as the release date. Other than that, I do not know.  ~swd

So, 22nd of July then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 26, 2021, 12:46:22 PM
Can’t see BRI being too happy with Mr. Desper right now... :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on March 26, 2021, 03:06:02 PM
Personally if Desper is really being left out of the conversation, I think it's needlessly dumb. His sound is what made those albums what they were in the first place. I can understand not wanting to commit to new quadrophonic mixes, but it sounds to me that the archivists just want to rush the music out, and are probably underbudgeted. But in the end, I don't come into this set for anything else but the music, and assume that there are always going to be politics at play. That's the nature of being a Beach Boys fan. It's messy, and you gotta wade through all the politics in order to get into the music. Hopefully we can hear from Desper's perspective, but in the end, the fact that this music is getting reissued in the first place is a cause for joy in and of itself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 26, 2021, 03:27:40 PM
Totally, Steve Desper was an integral part of the 1970s BBs sound...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 26, 2021, 03:58:37 PM
Personally if Desper is really being left out of the conversation, I think it's needlessly dumb. His sound is what made those albums what they were in the first place. I can understand not wanting to commit to new quadrophonic mixes, but it sounds to me that the archivists just want to rush the music out, and are probably underbudgeted. But in the end, I don't come into this set for anything else but the music, and assume that there are always going to be politics at play. That's the nature of being a Beach Boys fan. It's messy, and you gotta wade through all the politics in order to get into the music. Hopefully we can hear from Desper's perspective, but in the end, the fact that this music is getting reissued in the first place is a cause for joy in and of itself.

Totally, Steve Desper was an integral part of the 1970s BBs sound...

+1 to both of these posts. Much respect to everyone involved behind the scenes in championing this release, and to Mark, Alan, and Steve.

Politics suck.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 26, 2021, 04:42:41 PM
Personally if Desper is really being left out of the conversation, I think it's needlessly dumb. His sound is what made those albums what they were in the first place. I can understand not wanting to commit to new quadrophonic mixes, but it sounds to me that the archivists just want to rush the music out, and are probably underbudgeted. But in the end, I don't come into this set for anything else but the music, and assume that there are always going to be politics at play. That's the nature of being a Beach Boys fan. It's messy, and you gotta wade through all the politics in order to get into the music. Hopefully we can hear from Desper's perspective, but in the end, the fact that this music is getting reissued in the first place is a cause for joy in and of itself.

Totally, Steve Desper was an integral part of the 1970s BBs sound...

+1 to both of these posts. Much respect to everyone involved behind the scenes in championing this release, and to Mark, Alan, and Steve.

Politics suck.

4 years of Trump malarky and a post from S W Desper triggers the comment "Politics suck".    ;D  That's what I call late to the party.

Disappointed, like most people, that Desper has had little/no involvement in this, but this group has to remember that what we might want isn't always going to be commercially sensible. I'd love a 32 bit / 384 kHz release of every Beach Boys thing in existence (in multitrack). . . but it doesn't mean it makes sense for it to be released.

If there's been infringement of SWDs copyright then he has his rights - but we don't know that, and the last thing any of us want is a further delay to the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on March 26, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Four years of "malarkey"" has led to perhaps the greatest political statement ever from a President.
"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh, um, like to be able uh...Anyway." Blue Collar Joe.

As Frank Drebin said and the media repeats, nothing to see here, please disperse!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on March 26, 2021, 06:06:25 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 26, 2021, 07:25:28 PM
Personally if Desper is really being left out of the conversation, I think it's needlessly dumb. His sound is what made those albums what they were in the first place. I can understand not wanting to commit to new quadrophonic mixes, but it sounds to me that the archivists just want to rush the music out, and are probably underbudgeted. But in the end, I don't come into this set for anything else but the music, and assume that there are always going to be politics at play. That's the nature of being a Beach Boys fan. It's messy, and you gotta wade through all the politics in order to get into the music. Hopefully we can hear from Desper's perspective, but in the end, the fact that this music is getting reissued in the first place is a cause for joy in and of itself.

Totally, Steve Desper was an integral part of the 1970s BBs sound...

+1 to both of these posts. Much respect to everyone involved behind the scenes in championing this release, and to Mark, Alan, and Steve.

Politics suck.

4 years of Trump malarky and a post from S W Desper triggers the comment "Politics suck".    ;D  That's what I call late to the party.

Disappointed, like most people, that Desper has had little/no involvement in this, but this group has to remember that what we might want isn't always going to be commercially sensible. I'd love a 32 bit / 384 kHz release of every Beach Boys thing in existence (in multitrack). . . but it doesn't mean it makes sense for it to be released.

If there's been infringement of SWDs copyright then he has his rights - but we don't know that, and the last thing any of us want is a further delay to the set.

To clarify what I meant in this case... band/US/world politics suck when they adversely affect this band and its music/reputation/etc. Anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 26, 2021, 07:57:03 PM
Okay

Hope I didn't offend anyone - just trying to pass the time between now and whenever the hell this box hits the shelves with a bit of light banter.

Too soon?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 27, 2021, 01:07:19 AM
Okay

Hope I didn't offend anyone - just trying to pass the time between now and whenever the hell this box hits the shelves with a bit of light banter.

Too soon?



Never too soon in my book lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 27, 2021, 07:19:20 AM
Not to flog a dead horse, but it is inconceivable to me that the engineer and co producer of Sunflower and Surfs Up wasn’t interviewed for this project and consulted on the remastering.  I understand they want a new mastering, but Steve is now the only one who knows what Carl and his intentions were in mastering how they did, and that info could be very helpful when remastering the albums even if they want to go for a more modern sound. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on March 27, 2021, 08:33:55 AM
It's funny sometimes how things change over a few years - When I had similar opinions about engineer Geoff Emerick being almost totally excluded from the Sgt Pepper deluxe reissue project and eventual box set material, there was more pushback and debate, almost like the replies were saying "get over it". And yet Geoff perhaps knew as much about nearly every bar of music on those Pepper tapes as anyone else, including the Beatles themselves and George and Giles Martin.


On a side note, referring back to an earlier comment: Politics? In the world of the Beach Boys? Naaahhhh.... :lol

The inside politics of this band, the inside politics surrounding those claiming to be insiders, the inside politics of nearly every facet of this band and various fan outlets are what almost ruins it for me until I can actually listen to some music and flush all that garbage away. But that's life.  :smokin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on March 27, 2021, 10:11:43 AM
Not to flog a dead horse, but it is inconceivable to me that the engineer and co producer of Sunflower and Surfs Up wasn’t interviewed for this project and consulted on the remastering.  I understand they want a new mastering, but Steve is now the only one who knows what Carl and his intentions were in mastering how they did, and that info could be very helpful when remastering the albums even if they want to go for a more modern sound.  

At risk of joining in the dead-horse flogging, how can anyone possibly disagree with this?  It's incomprehensible to me that one could look at the situation objectively and shrug and say, "Stephen Desper? Hmmn, not really seeing how he could have any unique insights into any of this."  
 
The Sunflower-Surf's Up era is one of the most interesting in the group's recording history, particularly with the other members of the group blossoming to such a great extent while Brian was still delivering the goods in reduced, but still potent way.  And Desper had a hand in all of it.  And 50 years later, he's alive and cogent and responsive (and frankly seems like a very nice guy who was once very close to the Wilson brothers), and no one bothers to involve him?   As GF mentions, this sort of thing does happen (cf. Geoff Emerick and Beatles remasters/reissues), but it's unfortunate that it does.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 27, 2021, 12:33:02 PM
Not to flog a dead horse, but it is inconceivable to me that the engineer and co producer of Sunflower and Surfs Up wasn’t interviewed for this project and consulted on the remastering.  I understand they want a new mastering, but Steve is now the only one who knows what Carl and his intentions were in mastering how they did, and that info could be very helpful when remastering the albums even if they want to go for a more modern sound.  

At risk of joining in the dead-horse flogging, how can anyone possibly disagree with this?  It's incomprehensible to me that one could look at the situation objectively and shrug and say, "Stephen Desper? Hmmn, not really seeing how he could have any unique insights into any of this."  
 
The Sunflower-Surf's Up era is one of the most interesting in the group's recording history, particularly with the other members of the group blossoming to such a great extent while Brian was still delivering the goods in reduced, but still potent way.  And Desper had a hand in all of it.  And 50 years later, he's alive and cogent and responsive (and frankly seems like a very nice guy who was once very close to the Wilson brothers), and no one bothers to involve him?   As GF mentions, this sort of thing does happen (cf. Geoff Emerick and Beatles remasters/reissues), but it's unfortunate that it does.


I assume there are some unfortunate politics that we all simply don't know about. It's the same type of disappointment when Van Dyke Parks was not involved with the Smile Sessions 2011 box - that was also an inconceivable omission, yet it happened. I'm sure there are reasons why in both cases, neither of those omissions could simply be some random oversight, but certainly from a fan/historical perspective it's deeply unfortunate.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on March 27, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Well we know why Van Dyke didn’t participate in the Smile Sessions box set - he was P.O.’d at the protracted negotiations between Capitol and Frank Holmes and the insultingly low amount of compensation offered to him.  They finally came to an agreement but by then the notes and book were essentially done and Van wasn’t in a frame of mind to contribute.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on March 27, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
Van should write a book like Stephen's, but about SMiLE.

Now that would P.O. a few people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on March 27, 2021, 02:20:14 PM
Yes, the VDP/Smile box situation is somewhat analogous.  As much as I love that package, would the liner notes, if nothing else, have been enhanced by VDP's track-by-track comments? Without a doubt.  I will say, though, that as much I'm a fan of VDP's lyrics and music, the impression that I have is that he's not necessarily the easiest person in the world to work with it.  His comments often display a fair amount of snottiness and pettiness... e.g., his claim that he "had been victimized by Brian Wilson's buffoonery."

I guess my point is that VDP non-involvement with TSS wasn't necessarily entirely the fault of the other side.

I don't know Steve Desper personally, but I have seen enough in the way of interviews and online posts by him to have the opinion that the guy is a mensch and a straight-shooter, and once-upon-a-time a good friend of Carl, Dennis and Brian.  If he says "No one has consulted me at any time on liner notes, tape tracks," etc., the story is likely as simple as that. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 28, 2021, 04:39:41 PM
Gotta say, it’s great to read a FF thread that doesn’t have most of the board and moderators ganging up on a single member and telling them their posts are awful


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 28, 2021, 04:50:27 PM
endless harmony.... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on March 28, 2021, 09:16:05 PM
That being said -- Stephen is pretty emphatically retired, and also emphatic that the best (only?) way to listen to the material he recorded with the Boys is the through the original mixes. A box featuring remixed material and outtakes seems by definition something he'd disapprove of. Mark and Alan could certainly read his posts here for many years to see that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jiggy22 on March 29, 2021, 11:45:25 AM
Gotta say, it’s great to read a FF thread that doesn’t have most of the board and moderators ganging up on a single member and telling them their posts are awful
isn't that the guy you called a waste of flesh


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 29, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Gotta say, it’s great to read a FF thread that doesn’t have most of the board and moderators ganging up on a single member and telling them their posts are awful
isn't that the guy you called a waste of flesh


Rainboweyez is the guy who made that crack about me dying of Covid? Didn’t know that; in that case, f*** him. Didn’t realize it was the same guy

Edit

Yup sure is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on March 29, 2021, 06:09:46 PM
Mike & ESQ interview, acknowledges Feel Flows set is coming out soon.

https://www.insiteatlanta.com/california-music?fbclid=IwAR2U_3cVZFN1BSZUe68d94VGTAgluKoKQyaHkrEkyE-faYMzkDWXf-MEJTQ


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on March 29, 2021, 08:09:39 PM
Thanks Mike


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on March 30, 2021, 09:14:37 AM
for this upcoming Feel Flows box set I certainly hope none of the original master stereo mixes that Stephen desper meticulously engineered under carl Wilson approval are tampered with in the least.  you cannot improve on perfection

I found objectionable the remastering of Our Sweet Love for the 2009 comp. CD Summer Love Songs, since the quiet little percussion shake that nicely closed that sunflower song (I'd become so accustomed to) was (for all intents and purposes) excised.  WHY!?  FOR WHAT PURPOSE SERVED!?




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on March 30, 2021, 09:15:38 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 30, 2021, 09:43:49 AM
for this upcoming Feel Flows box set I certainly hope none of the original master stereo mixes that Stephen desper meticulously engineered under carl Wilson approval are tampered with in the least.  you cannot improve on perfection

I found objectionable the remastering of Our Sweet Love for the 2009 comp. CD Summer Love Songs, since the quiet little percussion shake that nicely closed that sunflower song (I'd become so accustomed to) was (for all intents and purposes) excised.  WHY!?  FOR WHAT PURPOSE SERVED!?


Are you saying the original mixes should never be remastered? Or that the raw multi-tracks should never be remixed?

I mean, pretty much every archival release we've seen has involved new mixes of vintage multi-tracks, or new remasters of old mixes. None of this is "tampering."

Multiple different engineers have remastered "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" material over the years, and I haven't really heard a *bad* remaster of that material. Some might be slightly more preferable than others.

The original mixes of those albums aren't going anywhere; there are 10 different ways to get them right now. In the meantime, I think the material will sound great and interesting in fully remixed form; a remix doesn't erase the original mixes, and is just *another* way to hear the material.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on March 30, 2021, 12:02:31 PM
for this upcoming Feel Flows box set I certainly hope none of the original master stereo mixes that Stephen desper meticulously engineered under carl Wilson approval are tampered with in the least.  you cannot improve on perfection

I found objectionable the remastering of Our Sweet Love for the 2009 comp. CD Summer Love Songs, since the quiet little percussion shake that nicely closed that sunflower song (I'd become so accustomed to) was (for all intents and purposes) excised.  WHY!?  FOR WHAT PURPOSE SERVED!?



The entire purpose of archival releases like this is to "tamper" with the recordings. There will likely be backing track, vocal only, and other alternate mixes included in the box, all created from the multitracks. When the box set releases, original copies of Sunflower and Surf's Up (which are everywhere, as they've been reissued dozens of times) will not disappear. What's the purpose of this mentality? The original mixes of both albums may appear on the box as the mono mix of Pet Sounds did in 1997, or they may not. What difference does it make if we all have the albums and have heard them plenty of times?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: barsone on March 30, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
for this upcoming Feel Flows box set I certainly hope none of the original master stereo mixes that Stephen desper meticulously engineered under carl Wilson approval are tampered with in the least.  you cannot improve on perfection

I found objectionable the remastering of Our Sweet Love for the 2009 comp. CD Summer Love Songs, since the quiet little percussion shake that nicely closed that sunflower song (I'd become so accustomed to) was (for all intents and purposes) excised.  WHY!?  FOR WHAT PURPOSE SERVED!?


Are you saying the original mixes should never be remastered? Or that the raw multi-tracks should never be remixed?

I mean, pretty much every archival release we've seen has involved new mixes of vintage multi-tracks, or new remasters of old mixes. None of this is "tampering."

Multiple different engineers have remastered "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" material over the years, and I haven't really heard a *bad* remaster of that material. Some might be slightly more preferable than others.

The original mixes of those albums aren't going anywhere; there are 10 different ways to get them right now. In the meantime, I think the material will sound great and interesting in fully remixed form; a remix doesn't erase the original mixes, and is just *another* way to hear the material.

HJ,

I was a faithful everyday reader of the FF thread for the first 105 pages or so.  Staying up late every evening with a glass of red to see what new comments were posted in the thread.  With laughter and smiles, I read the days 'reasons' why the FF is coming soon...vs why its being delayed.  My question to you is this if your able to answer.  Obviously the sale of BRI was in the works but I seem to recall you saying there were other reasons why the FF release was being delayed.  Could the current Desper e-mail release above also a reason why FF did not show in 2020.  Meaning legal/copyright stuff ??

And thanks to you for your PATIENCE those first 95 pages !

Barsone


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on March 30, 2021, 05:09:51 PM
The entire purpose of archival releases like this is to "tamper" with the recordings. There will likely be backing track, vocal only, and other alternate mixes included in the box, all created from the multitracks. When the box set releases, original copies of Sunflower and Surf's Up (which are everywhere, as they've been reissued dozens of times) will not disappear. What's the purpose of this mentality? The original mixes of both albums may appear on the box as the mono mix of Pet Sounds did in 1997, or they may not. What difference does it make if we all have the albums and have heard them plenty of times?

To some extent, I'm sympathetic to both sides of this debate.  On the one hand, there is the concept of artistic integrity. The idea is that there was this creative process all those decades ago, and certain choices were made in the creative process, and those choices should be respected to the extent possible.  Geoff Emerick reportedly used the example of a cowbell on one of the tracks, saying that Lennon-McCartney had asked him to make it sound like something other than a cowbell, and he did, and they were happy with it... and then Giles Martin comes along 50 years later and makes it sound exactly.... like.... a cowbell.

On the other hand, where is really the harm?  The fans get something they'll enjoy; the musicians (or their estates) cash in; the record labels get a product they can sell during a period of great challenge for their industry.   The old mixes are available to those who want them. If you get over the notion that what these musicians did a half-century ago is somehow sacrosanct, it's a win-win-win.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on March 30, 2021, 07:01:18 PM
The entire purpose of archival releases like this is to "tamper" with the recordings. There will likely be backing track, vocal only, and other alternate mixes included in the box, all created from the multitracks. When the box set releases, original copies of Sunflower and Surf's Up (which are everywhere, as they've been reissued dozens of times) will not disappear. What's the purpose of this mentality? The original mixes of both albums may appear on the box as the mono mix of Pet Sounds did in 1997, or they may not. What difference does it make if we all have the albums and have heard them plenty of times?

To some extent, I'm sympathetic to both sides of this debate.  On the one hand, there is the concept of artistic integrity. The idea is that there was this creative process all those decades ago, and certain choices were made in the creative process, and those choices should be respected to the extent possible.  Geoff Emerick reportedly used the example of a cowbell on one of the tracks, saying that Lennon-McCartney had asked him to make it sound like something other than a cowbell, and he did, and they were happy with it... and then Giles Martin comes along 50 years later and makes it sound exactly.... like.... a cowbell.

On the other hand, where is really the harm?  The fans get something they'll enjoy; the musicians (or their estates) cash in; the record labels get a product they can sell during a period of great challenge for their industry.   The old mixes are available to those who want them. If you get over the notion that what these musicians did a half-century ago is somehow sacrosanct, it's a win-win-win.



I think the modern remixes etc are interesting, but it depends on whether or not you consider the mix to be integral to be original performance- I personally do.

An analogy is the guitar solo on “Goin to the Beach”. This is a new performance on a vintage BB track. Modern remixes etc are comparable IMO. If someone added a second vocal to “You Still Believe In Me”, is this  “tampering”, or is this a cool new way to hear the song? Perhaps the best example I can think of is that more recent symphonic album, where the tracks were almost completely redone. To some, a remix is similar- so I think if you approach it from that standpoint, you might understand the position of people like myself as a fan and Desper as a creator. In Desper’s case, this area was one of his primary contributions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Latshaw on March 31, 2021, 06:45:18 AM
"I can think of is that more recent symphonic album, where the tracks were almost completely redone."

For me, one of the stunning blunders for the symphonic album was the decision not to use the stereo remixes.  They flew in the mono versions, then recorded new instrumentation to cover the rough spots, which accounts for the patchwork nature of the project.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on March 31, 2021, 07:10:58 AM
Geez, I mean, at this point debating whether *anything* other than original mixes should be released is like debating whether movies should be remade, or whether Dylan should ever plug in an electric guitar. These things all happened a thousand years ago already, and we all survived.

Overdubbing *new* material onto old BB tracks 60 years later is kind of an extreme example, and different from simply remixing vintage tracks, although even in that case with the symphonic album it was presented as a new, updated project where it's patently obvious *new* overdubs have been added. That was the whole crux of the project, that new overdubs were added. They haven't reissued the original albums with those symphonic overdubbed versions subbed in or anything.

But backing up, is anybody still really apprehensive about *remixing* old tracks? The original mixes/versions are almost always still readily available. If you don't like remixes, you can pass.

Geoff Emerick's legacy is just fine; Apple has gone to great lengths to make sure the original mixes remain *the* main versions still out there, and that they remain available.

Similarly, Desper needn't worry. Like Emerick, the original work he did not only is still there on the raw multitracks even when they *do* remix the stuff. And, his final original mixes remain available.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on March 31, 2021, 08:09:47 AM
I do think that there was more to the Emerick-Martin-Sgt Pepper box set situation bubbling under the public surface. Geoff was an integral part of those sessions and how that record sounded like it did, I don't think anyone would deny that. And for years I personally have read many accounts crediting George Martin with developing a certain sound or studio effect that was just as much an integral hook in a specific Beatles song, while the truth is that credit should have gone to Geoff who either dreamed up the effect/sound or had the creativity and know-how to make it happen.

So maybe some feathers were ruffled when Geoff started to give interviews and wrote his book where he detailed some of these famous sounds and production ideas on Beatles records and sort of challenged the longer-held notion that George Martin was the mastermind behind those sounds. Then when the Pepper deluxe 50th edition project gets underway, and George's son Giles is in the driver's seat...Well, maybe that explains why Geoff's role in the project was minimalized as it was.

There's politics in everything, so whatever is going on in Beach Boys Land right now has that element working too.

I can also see both sides in the issue of remixing tracks - Speaking as someone who actually prefers Mark's stereo mix of Pet Sounds over any of the original mono mixes, included the much-lauded Hoffman 24K DCC remaster which I own but rarely play anymore, both sides have valid points. Ultimately the original mixes and mastered versions of these old albums are still available, and remixed versions give listeners a chance to hear them from a fresh perspective. If we want to truly go all-in on preserving the integrity of the original mixes and masters, that would technically exclude any digital-only compressed format versions of the music, right? Because even that changes the original intent and texture of the mixes even if many listeners wouldn't notice.

And the same debate could be thrown back at something like Mike Love's remakes of Beach Boys classics on his last solo LP...why would someone like Mike basically do a carbon-copy of the instrumental backing tracks and arrangements, mix those backing tracks to sound like they did on the 60's originals, recreate backing vocal stacks using the same arrangements, then put his own autotuned lead vocal on top? I'd say the same people arguing against remixing Sunflower or Surf's Up remixes would say recreating original BB's classic hits and releasing them as a solo project with new lead vocals would be just as egregious in terms of preserving the original integrity of the works and avoiding the notion of touching up the Mona Lisa with modern colors.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on March 31, 2021, 11:20:03 AM
Geez, I mean, at this point debating whether *anything* other than original mixes should be released is like debating whether movies should be remade, or whether Dylan should ever plug in an electric guitar. These things all happened a thousand years ago already, and we all survived.

Overdubbing *new* material onto old BB tracks 60 years later is kind of an extreme example, and different from simply remixing vintage tracks, although even in that case with the symphonic album it was presented as a new, updated project where it's patently obvious *new* overdubs have been added. That was the whole crux of the project, that new overdubs were added. They haven't reissued the original albums with those symphonic overdubbed versions subbed in or anything.

But backing up, is anybody still really apprehensive about *remixing* old tracks? The original mixes/versions are almost always still readily available. If you don't like remixes, you can pass.

Geoff Emerick's legacy is just fine; Apple has gone to great lengths to make sure the original mixes remain *the* main versions still out there, and that they remain available.

Similarly, Desper needn't worry. Like Emerick, the original work he did not only is still there on the raw multitracks even when they *do* remix the stuff. And, his final original mixes remain available.



Well, I'm personally not commenting on whether or not they should be done ... but there is certainly room for opinion/interpretation in what they are when they are done. Sorry, but to some people (including myself): applying a digital reverb in place of an original chamber, or replacing the performance of the original hand on the lead vocal fader during the final dubdown is very much akin to adding a new overdub. You could argue that the reverb in some original mixes is more noticeable in the final result than whether or not someone replaced a rhythm guitar, for example.

Though I'm not stating that remixes should not be done at all, I think there is validity in that concept as well. The Pet Sounds stereo mix, for example, has been on the market now for almost as long as the original mixes were prior to the stereo remix. And we now have plenty of examples of the stereo mix replacing the original mono mix- in fact, IME it's just as common (if not more common) to hear the Carl tag on "God Only Knows" or the Brian bridge on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" when these songs are played in public settings, etc.

The biggest miss I've found in archival releases is there's a noticeable lacking of vintage working or alternate mixes- a few have come out here and there, and to me- these are far more interesting than any remix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on March 31, 2021, 12:54:12 PM
No art, once released into the world, stays static.  Every form of it has some form of revisitation.  The oft referenced Mona Lisa, for example, has, starkly in opposition to the arguments it has been used as support for, been radically altered over the years.  It has to be in order to remain in the public view.  Personally, I've never seen the version of the Mono Lisa in the Louvre -- the version that has had extensive repairs, has had the first layer of paint washed off in an overzealous attempt to clean it, that has been attacked and healed.  I wish that I could, because, despite the damage and despite the necessary maintenance, it's still Leonardo's work, and to be in the same room with that painting is surely different than being in the same room as a print of the same, or a copy in an art book -- which is the only way I've experienced that painting.  I have seen other Leonardos in person, at the MET here in New York, just as I've seen Rothkos in Detroit, Picassos in Ann Arbor, or Warhols in Chicago.  None of these works of art has remained unaltered over the years.  They are what they are now because of human intervention. 

Similarly, other forms of music require constant intervention and reimagination to remain in the public's sphere of awareness.  Every time a major orchestra performs Mahler's Fifth symphony, it presumably varies slightly from what Mahler had in mind when he committed the notes to paper in the late 19th century.  And the further in the past a composer is, the more deviation is possible.  This kind of conflict is evident in the wildly different ways musicians can interpret baroque and renaissance music -- either attempting to perform it in a way close to the composer's vision, or in a way that is more palatable to modern ears.

Popular recorded music is actually fairly unique in the way that it can remain.  Multitrack tape allows retrospective remixing in a way that can't be contemplated in the visual arts (digital art is different of course.). We can't strip away all the paint from a Leonardo without ruining the painting.  With recorded music, we can.  Of course, the question that people are asking here is, should we just because we can?  I think that it is possible to answer this question in both the affirmative and in the negative with wholly legitimate justification.  And I think it's traceable to the listeners values, which, again, are equally legitimate values to hold, even if they are fundamentally different.

The wonderful thing about art of all stripes is that it can hit every person in a different way.  For some art is emotional.  For some it's intellectual.  For most it's a mixture of those plus no shortage of other factors.  For those who value listening to recorded music as a more emotional enterprise, it's defensible to insist that remasters and remixes should be anathema to the purity of the art.  For those whose values tilt towards the intellectual side of the experience of art, not exploiting the non-destructive possibilities of deconstructing the music is, understandably, seen as almost offensive.

The biggest mistake here is to assume that the emotional listener has a more sensually rich experience than the intellectually-bent listener.    For each, I think the ultimate end is the same -- to be moved by the music, to feel something about it, to be made to feel something by it.

Unfortunately, this kind of discussion is all fine on a message board somewhere, but in practice, as we've seen, a commercial release is not a great platform for philosophical discussions about the aesthetics of the remix.  I think that the best we can do is, whether we are for remixes or against them, celebrate the fact that this 50 year old music is still here, and we can listen to it pretty close to the way it first appeared 50 years ago.  No italian anarchists have poked a hole in it, and no well meaning but hamfisted caretakers permanently removed a layer of it with no hope of ever getting it back.  It does not exist only as a dusty score in a music library, waiting for some ensemble to play it again.  It's here, and will always be here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on March 31, 2021, 02:10:37 PM
^ great post!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on March 31, 2021, 03:26:37 PM
Funnily enough, there are a few examples of Mr. Desper doing that very thing:
- 'Til I Die (alternate mix) - a personal mix later officially issued
- finishing Loop De Loop with Al years later, also officially issued
- study video breakdowns of multitrack minutiae (most notably Cool, Cool Water)

Not to raise negative points but I think the "worst case" scenario we've seen is something like the revisited Sail Plane Song, but at least in that case we still have the "original".

I'm all for tastefully mixed alternative versions, and the sectional track/background vocals/a cappella mixes that came out for the '67 and '68 compilations give me great hope for more of the same!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on March 31, 2021, 03:31:04 PM
No art, once released into the world, stays static.  Every form of it has some form of revisitation.  The oft referenced Mona Lisa, for example, has, starkly in opposition to the arguments it has been used as support for, been radically altered over the years.  It has to be in order to remain in the public view.  Personally, I've never seen the version of the Mono Lisa in the Louvre -- the version that has had extensive repairs, has had the first layer of paint washed off in an overzealous attempt to clean it, that has been attacked and healed.  I wish that I could, because, despite the damage and despite the necessary maintenance, it's still Leonardo's work, and to be in the same room with that painting is surely different than being in the same room as a print of the same, or a copy in an art book -- which is the only way I've experienced that painting.  I have seen other Leonardos in person, at the MET here in New York, just as I've seen Rothkos in Detroit, Picassos in Ann Arbor, or Warhols in Chicago.  None of these works of art has remained unaltered over the years.  They are what they are now because of human intervention. 

Similarly, other forms of music require constant intervention and reimagination to remain in the public's sphere of awareness.  Every time a major orchestra performs Mahler's Fifth symphony, it presumably varies slightly from what Mahler had in mind when he committed the notes to paper in the late 19th century.  And the further in the past a composer is, the more deviation is possible.  This kind of conflict is evident in the wildly different ways musicians can interpret baroque and renaissance music -- either attempting to perform it in a way close to the composer's vision, or in a way that is more palatable to modern ears.

Popular recorded music is actually fairly unique in the way that it can remain.  Multitrack tape allows retrospective remixing in a way that can't be contemplated in the visual arts (digital art is different of course.). We can't strip away all the paint from a Leonardo without ruining the painting.  With recorded music, we can.  Of course, the question that people are asking here is, should we just because we can?  I think that it is possible to answer this question in both the affirmative and in the negative with wholly legitimate justification.  And I think it's traceable to the listeners values, which, again, are equally legitimate values to hold, even if they are fundamentally different.

The wonderful thing about art of all stripes is that it can hit every person in a different way.  For some art is emotional.  For some it's intellectual.  For most it's a mixture of those plus no shortage of other factors.  For those who value listening to recorded music as a more emotional enterprise, it's defensible to insist that remasters and remixes should be anathema to the purity of the art.  For those whose values tilt towards the intellectual side of the experience of art, not exploiting the non-destructive possibilities of deconstructing the music is, understandably, seen as almost offensive.

The biggest mistake here is to assume that the emotional listener has a more sensually rich experience than the intellectually-bent listener.    For each, I think the ultimate end is the same -- to be moved by the music, to feel something about it, to be made to feel something by it.

Unfortunately, this kind of discussion is all fine on a message board somewhere, but in practice, as we've seen, a commercial release is not a great platform for philosophical discussions about the aesthetics of the remix.  I think that the best we can do is, whether we are for remixes or against them, celebrate the fact that this 50 year old music is still here, and we can listen to it pretty close to the way it first appeared 50 years ago.  No italian anarchists have poked a hole in it, and no well meaning but hamfisted caretakers permanently removed a layer of it with no hope of ever getting it back.  It does not exist only as a dusty score in a music library, waiting for some ensemble to play it again.  It's here, and will always be here.

I agree on a lot of these points, again coming from someone whose go-to version of Pet Sounds is and has been Mark's stereo mix from the box set over 20 years ago! If I - or we collectively - enjoy something more on a purely aesthetic level, along with both the emotional and intellectual elements (present across the board in a work like Pet Sounds), are we to say in order to keep the work pure that we should *not* have remixes of that work to enjoy? Of course I say no, because it would deprive me of the version of Pet Sounds which I go to for aesthetic, sonic, intellectual, and emotional fulfillment through that work.

However, I will play devil's advocate and run the example of Geoff Emerick through the process. The examples of artists and their art which you cited were from deceased artists decades or even centuries after they created their art.

One of the most mind-blowing pieces of info came from an art history professor, a Phd no less, who enlightened us to the fact that so many of the "Old Masters" were often not the only hands and brushes to create many of their more famous works of art. They would have studios where sometimes students - interns in modern lingo - would be tasked with filling in backgrounds, adding peripheral objects to the surroundings of the main subject, under the direction of the master. So, I think all of us collectively had the question "Then this means Artist X didn't actually paint or complete that canvas, and we're not seeing his trees or his curtains in the background?".  It just seemed to blow the lid off the whole perception of viewing and enjoying art as a whole, as in someone who thinks DaVinci's trees are the best depictions of trees in a landscape background they had ever seen on a certain canvas, only it may have been some lowly intern at his studio who actually created those specific trees which triggered the emotional and aesthetic response. The same response came when another professor revealed how some of the more famous film composers, names like Elfman, Mancini, etc had similar studios of workers who would "fill in" the orchestrations and transitional material after the composer brought in a basic sketch for a melody. So in those cases, whose art are we responding to? And that creates a situation where even the identity of the artist is in question, never mind the art itself or the way it exists for future generations to enjoy and react to.

Anyway, the point in the Emerick example is how the artist whose hands, ears, and creativity went into the original art are or were still alive when the remixes and reworkings of the art were given new mixes and sonic textures by others. Yet, he was not involved in the process of remixing and reworking the same tracks he helped create when he was fully capable of doing so, or at least being in the studio consulting during the process. I think that is the point which separates the examples of centuries-old music which exists only on scores as to the original concept of the creators and composers from an example of the guy who actually did the mixing being shut out of any remixing process.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, just to be clear again, but I think there is some validity to the concerns of fans who saw Geoff Emerick in that Pepper remix process not only being sidelined for the game but basically being asked to buy a general admission ticket as the art which he played a key role in creating was being reworked using elements which he himself actually did originally and was still capable of doing.

And just as fascinating is how as late as the 1950's the ability to overdub and edit media like magnetic tape versus trying to capture a full, continuous, live performance forever changed the way music is both created and archived...and perceived. Music used to be captured like a still photograph, as a snapshot in time of a particular moment when a work was performed and recorded. After tape allowed editing and overdubbing, it became a more static form of art that was more about manipulating the media to enhance the song rather than capturing a full performance snapshot of the song itself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 31, 2021, 04:26:20 PM
I genuinely love Mark and Alan's stereo remixes, and I too prefer listening to Pet Sounds in stereo compared to mono. That might be because I first deep dived this band circa 2000, so the stereo version is the one I fell in love with. To those who were in love with Pet Sounds from 1966 to 1997, they may feel that the stereo version craps on their memories... or they might also agree with my humble opinion that the stereo version has more ear candy to dive into and appreciate.

To each their own.

As long as the originals remain available, I think it's really not such a big deal. It becomes a problem when a rare case like George Lucas comes along and intentionally makes the originals unavailable. That will always be a ridiculous thing to do, yes it's Lucas' right as an artist I suppose, but it's messed up when a generation of people have a deep emotional attachment to the original.

I do understand and respect Stephen's point of view, and I am guessing he doesn't like the idea that a new version of the albums will become the "go-to" version in the new streaming universe for many new fans, thus undercutting his work as well as the approved-by-the-band-members-including-deceased-ones mixes from decades past. And yes, while the originals will always be available, I'm sure that plenty of new fans (and old ones too) will refer to new mixes as their preferred mixes, if only because maybe they'll sound more "modern" or accessible, although who knows how they'll sound, and it's always subject to interpretation.  So yeah, I get how that could irk someone. There's no way to get Carl or Dennis approval on a new stereo remix.

So even though I completely approve of skilled folks like Mark and Alan doing new mixes, and even though I disagree with the standpoint that mixes like that should not be done, I nevertheless empathize with those who are very much against tweaking old mixes.  But ultimately, there's no way to control the marketplace of what version people like/prefer to listen to. By the logic of trying to quash new mixes, we should also be mad at fans for doing their own fan mixes in case any of those mixes gain popularity as earworms, and get into new fans' heads and hearts more than the original mixes. And that's silly talk.

There's no stopping the inevitable. We're in the "roll your own" world these days, and people are ALWAYS going to find ways to tweak and fiddle with old classic recordings, and there will always be interesting experiments that come out of it. As long as the originals aren't made unavailable, I think it's not a big deal in my humble estimation, but of course, the mileage of those who were much closer to the proceedings back in the day may vary.

As was mentioned earlier, we have the very, very cool Desper alternate mix of Til I Die, and I'm very glad we have BOTH that version as well as the album version. The more the merrier! It's a new way to discover some of the magic contained in the original mixes. Some things will surely newly "pop out", and thus when going back to listen to the original Desper mixes, people can then also appreciate some subtle, hidden gems contained inside. It's not a bad thing, really it's not.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Toursiveu on March 31, 2021, 05:30:05 PM

It becomes a problem when a rare case like George Lucas comes along and intentionally makes the originals unavailable. That will always be a ridiculous thing to do, yes it's Lucas' right as an artist I suppose, but it's messed up when a generation of people have a deep emotional attachment to the original.


I sure hope no one ever adds more stormtroopers and dewbacks in Cool, Cool Water.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on March 31, 2021, 10:29:14 PM
Two points...

Number one:  The thing is, the original mixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" are NOT readily available for purchase.  You need to hunt for ORIGINAL pressings of the records to hear them.  And how easy is that to do?  Stephen Desper says every subsequent re-release of each album was not a copy of the original mix.  So, heck, I'm not sure I ever heard the original releases of those albums.  Now my guess is that I have, because I got into the Beach Boys shortly after the album "Surf's Up" came out, so the LP copies I have may be original -- but they're in storage right now, so I can't check them to make sure.  So, maybe I have heard them, and maybe I haven't?

Now, having said that, I'm all for well done remixes, which may upset Mr. Desper.  BUT... shouldn't we also have the right to hear Mr. Desper's and the Beach Boys' original mix, too?  The original mix should be as easy to buy as any remix.  Mr. Desper has been fighting for 50 years to get his original mixes back into the ears of the fans.  And when the company is spending money on putting out a box set, including a possible remix of the albums, then why not spend a little more money and try to restore the original mix while you're at it?  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  I mean, yeah, they did a stereo remix of "Pet Sounds", but they also restored the original mono mix.  So do both here, too!  Why not?  Especially as they were the first albums to have been run through an early version of the Spatializer!  That's pretty historic to me!

Number two:  With all this talk of the original mix being only available on the first pressing of the records I was wondering if there was a way to truly replicate that pressing?  Then I began to imagine some company doing a laser scan of an original disc -- couldn't that bring back the original mix?!  And with the laser scan, couldn't you then go in and look for the tiniest imperfections in the original printing of the disc and smooth out the occasional pops so that it would be near pristine?  And then you can do two things: converting/manufacturing that scan you could make a new pressing of the record, and, you can also make a digital version to play.  I wish I were a modern day Thomas Edison!

PS -- By the way, we don't have confirmation that remixes of the albums will be a part of the box set, do we?  I know it's probably a good guess that they will be, but I don't recall ever hearing that they would be.

Love and merci,   
Dan Lega



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on April 01, 2021, 12:30:27 AM

Number one:  The thing is, the original mixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" are NOT readily available for purchase.  You need to hunt for ORIGINAL pressings of the records to hear them.  And how easy is that to do?  Stephen Desper says every subsequent re-release of each album was not a copy of the original mix.  So, heck, I'm not sure I ever heard the original releases of those albums.  Now my guess is that I have, because I got into the Beach Boys shortly after the album "Surf's Up" came out, so the LP copies I have may be original -- but they're in storage right now, so I can't check them to make sure.  So, maybe I have heard them, and maybe I haven't?

Now, having said that, I'm all for well done remixes, which may upset Mr. Desper.  BUT... shouldn't we also have the right to hear Mr. Desper's and the Beach Boys' original mix, too?  The original mix should be as easy to buy as any remix.  Mr. Desper has been fighting for 50 years to get his original mixes back into the ears of the fans.  And when the company is spending money on putting out a box set, including a possible remix of the albums, then why not spend a little more money and try to restore the original mix while you're at it?  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  I mean, yeah, they did a stereo remix of "Pet Sounds", but they also restored the original mono mix.  So do both here, too!  Why not?  Especially as they were the first albums to have been run through an early version of the Spatializer!  That's pretty historic to me!


This isn't true. The mixes available now are the same mixes that have been available since 1970 and 1971 - there are no others. Desper proposed a version run through his virtual surround tech (meaning, the original mixes that we already have but reprocessed, much the same way a mono mix might be given a rechanneled stereo effect, but obviously a more advanced system designed to psychoacoustically trick stereo into '3D' audio) and the label rejected it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 01, 2021, 03:31:01 AM
Wouldn’t that make the versions on the boxed set truer to the original vision of the album compared to what Desper proposed? Note: I think both should be available, just making a point


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 01, 2021, 07:37:57 AM
The truly original mixes and mastered versions of albums across the board and across genres - especially archival releases from 50+ years ago - have not been available for decades. Since everything has been rejiggered in some way for digital since the 80's, especially in terms of mastering and mastering levels, the only way to truly hear the original versions of these old albums would be to seek out the original pressings. Anything they do to transfer it to digital formats will change the texture of the original, but honestly it's something only diehard audiophiles would care about or notice. Even CD's released in the 80's sound radically different from reissues of the same albums from the past 10-15 years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on April 01, 2021, 07:46:53 AM
Yes, there are a few different things at play:
- the original intention/Spatializer mix (3D stereo) reflecting what the band heard in the studio - this was rejected by the label but encoded into...
- the master for the album as we all know it. The first pressing LP is based on the best available LP master tapes (and approved by Carl); subsequent reissues may have used later-generation copies (as happened with many albums of the era) OR, in the case of digital reissues, received different mastering. Any current issue of Sunflower would be based on the original LP MIX but may have a different mastering. The Spatializer would still be able to decode it, but it wouldn't be the exact same as the Carl-approved version unless it was the first pressing LP.
- 5.1 or quad mixes that have been released on various products over the years are not what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be)
- any new stereo remix would not be what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be). I don't know what will be on the set, but it's likely that there will be alternate or modern remixes of many tracks, if not a "remixed album" (a la Pet Sounds sessions).

I can't speak for Mr. Desper but from what I've seen, I get the impression that his frustration stems from the refusal/reluctance to release the "original intention", while other remixes (5.1, quad) with no Carl involvement have gotten the green light.


In movie terms it would be like:
- original Director's Cut (Spatializer) is unavailable
- theatrical version (original LP) is still available but with different colour timings depending on format/pressing
- various "Special Editions" with modern special effects have been made with no involvement from the original director

This box set represents another opportunity to "right the wrong" and get the "Director's Cut" out there but it seems that it may not be happening (I'm not following too closely).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on April 01, 2021, 08:02:37 AM
Number two:  With all this talk of the original mix being only available on the first pressing of the records I was wondering if there was a way to truly replicate that pressing?  Then I began to imagine some company doing a laser scan of an original disc -- couldn't that bring back the original mix?!  And with the laser scan, couldn't you then go in and look for the tiniest imperfections in the original printing of the disc and smooth out the occasional pops so that it would be near pristine?  And then you can do two things: converting/manufacturing that scan you could make a new pressing of the record, and, you can also make a digital version to play.  I wish I were a modern day Thomas Edison!

Dan, to some extent, such technology does exist.   And with the right software, the sound could be "smoothed out" to a degree.


The Lawrence Berkeley Lab has worked with the Smithsonian on scanning technology to digitize and preserve old recordings that only exist on shellac, vinyl, etc.
https://irene.lbl.gov/sample-page/irene-home-history/

BTW, for years, I haven't been able to help but smile at your "Love & Merci" tag.  Very clever, so thank you for that!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 01, 2021, 08:13:35 AM
Yes, there are a few different things at play:
- the original intention/Spatializer mix (3D stereo) reflecting what the band heard in the studio - this was rejected by the label but encoded into...
- the master for the album as we all know it. The first pressing LP is based on the best available LP master tapes (and approved by Carl); subsequent reissues may have used later-generation copies (as happened with many albums of the era) OR, in the case of digital reissues, received different mastering. Any current issue of Sunflower would be based on the original LP MIX but may have a different mastering. The Spatializer would still be able to decode it, but it wouldn't be the exact same as the Carl-approved version unless it was the first pressing LP.
- 5.1 or quad mixes that have been released on various products over the years are not what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be)
- any new stereo remix would not be what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be). I don't know what will be on the set, but it's likely that there will be alternate or modern remixes of many tracks, if not a "remixed album" (a la Pet Sounds sessions).

I can't speak for Mr. Desper but from what I've seen, I get the impression that his frustration stems from the refusal/reluctance to release the "original intention", while other remixes (5.1, quad) with no Carl involvement have gotten the green light.


In movie terms it would be like:
- original Director's Cut (Spatializer) is unavailable
- theatrical version (original LP) is still available but with different colour timings depending on format/pressing
- various "Special Editions" with modern special effects have been made with no involvement from the original director

This box set represents another opportunity to "right the wrong" and get the "Director's Cut" out there but it seems that it may not be happening (I'm not following too closely).

Again playing devil's advocate, strictly in a business sense - If the version that was rejected is the director's cut, it was never available to begin with and what was released originally was what created the interest and legacy. And if it were to be made available, either then or now, anyone who wanted to hear it would need an external piece of hardware to hear it. In terms of film reissues, would it make sense to add a piece of A/V hardware to a reissue package so you could see the cut of the film which was never released?

Again I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in terms of business bottom lines, securing and having a multi-disc box set full of outtakes and vault rarities would take precedent over manufacturing a device and including another mix of the works specific for that device to be used to view or hear that cut or mix.

And the whole purity of the original mix/master/cut/release subject just isn't practical with all of the changes in format over the past 50 years. Sure there will always be someone who will restore an old BetaMax video machine or a Laserdisc player in order to see a specific release of a film from the 80's or whatever, but that's not the bigger market being courted for archival releases. And anything that gets transferred to workable formats for reissues is going to be different from the original, first-generation release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 01, 2021, 08:33:10 AM
Yes, there are a few different things at play:
- the original intention/Spatializer mix (3D stereo) reflecting what the band heard in the studio - this was rejected by the label but encoded into...
- the master for the album as we all know it. The first pressing LP is based on the best available LP master tapes (and approved by Carl); subsequent reissues may have used later-generation copies (as happened with many albums of the era) OR, in the case of digital reissues, received different mastering. Any current issue of Sunflower would be based on the original LP MIX but may have a different mastering. The Spatializer would still be able to decode it, but it wouldn't be the exact same as the Carl-approved version unless it was the first pressing LP.
- 5.1 or quad mixes that have been released on various products over the years are not what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be)
- any new stereo remix would not be what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be). I don't know what will be on the set, but it's likely that there will be alternate or modern remixes of many tracks, if not a "remixed album" (a la Pet Sounds sessions).

I can't speak for Mr. Desper but from what I've seen, I get the impression that his frustration stems from the refusal/reluctance to release the "original intention", while other remixes (5.1, quad) with no Carl involvement have gotten the green light.


In movie terms it would be like:
- original Director's Cut (Spatializer) is unavailable
- theatrical version (original LP) is still available but with different colour timings depending on format/pressing
- various "Special Editions" with modern special effects have been made with no involvement from the original director

This box set represents another opportunity to "right the wrong" and get the "Director's Cut" out there but it seems that it may not be happening (I'm not following too closely).

It occurs to me that with the unique technology of Stephen's at the time of recording and mixing, coupled with the subsequent reluctance by the label to 100% completely realize that vision when it came time to releasing it back in the day, coupled with the new enhancements which will happen with the box at that I can't wait to hear, this is almost a SMiLE Part II type of situation with the band, where the fully original intent may never be completely, 100% known.

Obviously the originally-released mix on LP should constitute the "final word" having been approved by the band, but if there was a spatializer intent/desire by the band beyond that which never saw the light of day, it just adds one more element of unsolvable mystery to this album and the band's canon, an interesting parallel of sorts to the admittedly much more complicated mystery of SMiLE.

I remain grateful for the different versions that we will soon be getting to hear, it's always cool to hear these amazing works of art in a new light. It sure would be great to be able to hear what Stephen in the band had intended for the spatializer mix to sound like, but if that's not possible due to any number of political and business practicality reasons, I nevertheless expect to be fully satisfied with the upcoming varieties we have to look forward to.

And once again, I respect Stephen's opinion on these matters, as should most any fan. It's a complex situation that is not possible to make everybody completely happy, unfortunately.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on April 01, 2021, 09:24:08 AM

It sure would be great to be able to hear what Stephen in the band had intended for the spatializer mix to sound like, but if that's not possible due to any number of political and business practicality reasons, I nevertheless expect to be fully satisfied with the upcoming varieties we have to look forward to.


Desper released those versions of both Sunflower and Surf's Up publicly through his study videos, although that's a digital vinyl needledrop compressed in an online video, so there's inevitably still some degree of separation from an idealised 'original intent' here. It's an interesting listening experience, but probably not commercially viable in a modern setting, and, at the end of the day, still an extra layer of processing on top of a normal stereo mix that already had Beach Boy approval. It is out there if you know how to access it though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on April 01, 2021, 10:19:39 AM
I'll listen to any and all mixes of this stuff, and I respect everybody that worked on every mainstream and niche version, but at the end of the day, who even listens to the actual quad mixes of "Band on the Run" or "Imagine" or "Walls and Bridges" or "Venus and Mars?" Those are far less niche than the encoded-within-a-stereo-mix surround mixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", and few are listening to those either.

I'm not a big fan of invoking Carl's name when trying to claim new mixes are somehow besmirching Carl's name or his intentions. The surviving BBs have signed off on archival releases, including stereo remixes.

If we didn't do anything Carl can't sign off on, we'd have *no* archival releases. And to be frank, Carl was more stingy about archival releases than some of the other band members. I've heard Carl was *not* into the PS stereo remix when presented with it in 1996. And while I know everybody would much rather have Carl alive, it has to be said that the only reason we got "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" in 1998 was because Carl wasn't around to object. I suspect Carl would have continued to be somewhat colder to putting out tons of remixes and outtakes had he survived. I'd like to think he would have come around, and he did eventually sign off on the PS Sessions set and the GV set.

At the end of the day, I'd have no objection to properly encoding Desper's mixes onto some sort of BD audio sort of format (so that we don't have to procure weird equipment to extact the mixes from the stereo mixes, which just seems absurd to me), but I'd probably listen to it once and then stow it away and listen to the HOURS of *actual outtakes* that we hopefully will have. Such a project is like 47th on a list of things that should be released. It's like the Fred Vail country album. Should it be released? Sure, why not? Do I think it's anywhere near the top of a list of things we'd like to see in terms of BB-related releases? No, of course not.

Debating whether this or that sullies the original mixes of album is sort of like still complaining about classic rock songs being used in TV commercials. It happened like 30-40 years ago, and debating it is like stepping into a time warp.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 01, 2021, 10:35:37 AM
I'll listen to any and all mixes of this stuff, and I respect everybody that worked on every mainstream and niche version, but at the end of the day, who even listens to the actual quad mixes of "Band on the Run" or "Imagine" or "Walls and Bridges" or "Venus and Mars?" Those are far less niche than the encoded-within-a-stereo-mix surround mixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", and few are listening to those either.

I'm not a big fan of invoking Carl's name when trying to claim new mixes are somehow besmirching Carl's name or his intentions. The surviving BBs have signed off on archival releases, including stereo remixes.

If we didn't do anything Carl can't sign off on, we'd have *no* archival releases. And to be frank, Carl was more stingy about archival releases than some of the other band members. I've heard Carl was *not* into the PS stereo remix when presented with it in 1996. And while I know everybody would much rather have Carl alive, it has to be said that the only reason we got "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" in 1998 was because Carl wasn't around to object. I suspect Carl would have continued to be somewhat colder to putting out tons of remixes and outtakes had he survived. I'd like to think he would have come around, and he did eventually sign off on the PS Sessions set and the GV set.

At the end of the day, I'd have no objection to properly encoding Desper's mixes onto some sort of BD audio sort of format (so that we don't have to procure weird equipment to extact the mixes from the stereo mixes, which just seems absurd to me), but I'd probably listen to it once and then stow it away and listen to the HOURS of *actual outtakes* that we hopefully will have. Such a project is like 47th on a list of things that should be released. It's like the Fred Vail country album. Should it be released? Sure, why not? Do I think it's anywhere near the top of a list of things we'd like to see in terms of BB-related releases? No, of course not.

Debating whether this or that sullies the original mixes of album is sort of like still complaining about classic rock songs being used in TV commercials. It happened like 30-40 years ago, and debating it is like stepping into a time warp.

While Carl allegedly was against the SOMS song being released due to his flubbed vocal, I do have to wonder if any resistance he had to PS being released in stereo might have had to do with avoiding the band politics and internal conflict that would be sure to arise when revisiting such archival material. Particularly since that material was sourced from a politically sensitive time in the groups history.

I think Carl wanted very much to avoid conflict, and as evidenced by Mike holding up the box set for purposes of changing the liner notes, Carl might have just wanted to avoid the whole thing once he saw that shitstorm coming, prior to it having been worked out. That's my hypothesis and take on it, anyway.

I do have to wonder what type of a stink Mike raised at the time when they couldn't isolate his vocal track on the bridge for WIBN, and went with Brian's vocal in its place. Oh to of been a fly on the wall to have seen how that went down. I'm glad vocal extraction techniques weren't yet available in 1996, because the Brian bridge is absolutely my preferred version of the song. But again, in the last couple years of his life, Carl might have been very aware of the politics about things like that missing vocal line, and just decided initially to not support the project because he didn't know what type of an emotional landmine the whole thing might implode into. Considering how battle scarred he was with regards to internal politics in this band, I can understand that point of view, but I'm very glad he did come around to signing off on that box.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on April 01, 2021, 10:36:08 AM
Geez, I mean, at this point debating whether *anything* other than original mixes should be released is like debating whether movies should be remade, or whether Dylan should ever plug in an electric guitar. These things all happened a thousand years ago already, and we all survived.

Overdubbing *new* material onto old BB tracks 60 years later is kind of an extreme example, and different from simply remixing vintage tracks, although even in that case with the symphonic album it was presented as a new, updated project where it's patently obvious *new* overdubs have been added. That was the whole crux of the project, that new overdubs were added. They haven't reissued the original albums with those symphonic overdubbed versions subbed in or anything.

But backing up, is anybody still really apprehensive about *remixing* old tracks? The original mixes/versions are almost always still readily available. If you don't like remixes, you can pass.

Geoff Emerick's legacy is just fine; Apple has gone to great lengths to make sure the original mixes remain *the* main versions still out there, and that they remain available.

Similarly, Desper needn't worry. Like Emerick, the original work he did not only is still there on the raw multitracks even when they *do* remix the stuff. And, his final original mixes remain available.



Well, I'm personally not commenting on whether or not they should be done ... but there is certainly room for opinion/interpretation in what they are when they are done. Sorry, but to some people (including myself): applying a digital reverb in place of an original chamber, or replacing the performance of the original hand on the lead vocal fader during the final dubdown is very much akin to adding a new overdub. You could argue that the reverb in some original mixes is more noticeable in the final result than whether or not someone replaced a rhythm guitar, for example.

Though I'm not stating that remixes should not be done at all, I think there is validity in that concept as well. The Pet Sounds stereo mix, for example, has been on the market now for almost as long as the original mixes were prior to the stereo remix. And we now have plenty of examples of the stereo mix replacing the original mono mix- in fact, IME it's just as common (if not more common) to hear the Carl tag on "God Only Knows" or the Brian bridge on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" when these songs are played in public settings, etc.

The biggest miss I've found in archival releases is there's a noticeable lacking of vintage working or alternate mixes- a few have come out here and there, and to me- these are far more interesting than any remix.

I've certainly found some latter-day remixes to be better than others, and in particular I'm not a fan of excessive digital reverb. The PS '96 stereo mix was quite good overall, and then in the 2000s some of those remixes started introducing too much digital reverb (or reverb in general, regardless of the source) to my taste; I sometimes wonder if Brian asked for that on some of the 60s remixes.

That being said, no I don't equate most remixes to actually adding new modern-day overdubs. Two very different things.

For me, stereo remixes are best done to serve a purpose of something like that "Yellow Submarine Songtrack", to go  back to the raw, often dry sound of the multitracks and hear things with a clarity that just isn't there on the vintage mixes.

Some latter-day mixes are just hands-down better than the original; things like some of the Lennon solo album remixes, where Lennon's original mixes are limp and near-mono. But even in that case, we still have the originals.

As for stereo remixes "replacing" the originals, sure, that happens. In some cases, that's the *intention*, to give the songs new life and give a new reason to be playing them.

I think that as far as remixing goes, it makes sense to say we all have our own opinion, and some of us may not choose to listen to them. So I think "should we like remixes?" is an appropriate question. But I think "should we be remixing?" is no longer a reasonable or realistic question. Again, it's like asking "should movies be remade?" or "should digital replace analog?" It's done, it has been decided, and on top of that, I think there is plenty of room to argue not only that stereo remixes are here and there's nothing we can do about them, but also that in fact they are a *good* thing for many, many reasons.

If all the original mixes start getting deleted, then the discussion takes a different direction of course.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on April 01, 2021, 10:47:01 AM
I'll listen to any and all mixes of this stuff, and I respect everybody that worked on every mainstream and niche version, but at the end of the day, who even listens to the actual quad mixes of "Band on the Run" or "Imagine" or "Walls and Bridges" or "Venus and Mars?" Those are far less niche than the encoded-within-a-stereo-mix surround mixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", and few are listening to those either.

I'm not a big fan of invoking Carl's name when trying to claim new mixes are somehow besmirching Carl's name or his intentions. The surviving BBs have signed off on archival releases, including stereo remixes.

If we didn't do anything Carl can't sign off on, we'd have *no* archival releases. And to be frank, Carl was more stingy about archival releases than some of the other band members. I've heard Carl was *not* into the PS stereo remix when presented with it in 1996. And while I know everybody would much rather have Carl alive, it has to be said that the only reason we got "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" in 1998 was because Carl wasn't around to object. I suspect Carl would have continued to be somewhat colder to putting out tons of remixes and outtakes had he survived. I'd like to think he would have come around, and he did eventually sign off on the PS Sessions set and the GV set.

At the end of the day, I'd have no objection to properly encoding Desper's mixes onto some sort of BD audio sort of format (so that we don't have to procure weird equipment to extact the mixes from the stereo mixes, which just seems absurd to me), but I'd probably listen to it once and then stow it away and listen to the HOURS of *actual outtakes* that we hopefully will have. Such a project is like 47th on a list of things that should be released. It's like the Fred Vail country album. Should it be released? Sure, why not? Do I think it's anywhere near the top of a list of things we'd like to see in terms of BB-related releases? No, of course not.

Debating whether this or that sullies the original mixes of album is sort of like still complaining about classic rock songs being used in TV commercials. It happened like 30-40 years ago, and debating it is like stepping into a time warp.

While Carl allegedly was against the SOMS song being released due to his flubbed vocal, I do have to wonder if any resistance he had to PS being released in stereo might have had to do with avoiding the band politics and internal conflict that would be sure to arise when revisiting such archival material. Particularly since that material was sourced from a politically sensitive time in the groups history.

I think Carl wanted very much to avoid conflict, and as evidenced by Mike holding up the box set for purposes of changing the liner notes, Carl might have just wanted to avoid the whole thing once he saw that shitstorm coming, prior to it having been worked out. That's my hypothesis and take on it, anyway.

I do have to wonder what type of a stink Mike raised at the time when they couldn't isolate his vocal track on the bridge for WIBN, and went with Brian's vocal in its place. Oh to of been a fly on the wall to have seen how that went down. I'm glad vocal extraction techniques weren't yet available in 1996, because the Brian bridge is absolutely my preferred version of the song. But again, in the last couple years of his life, Carl might have been very aware of the politics about things like that missing vocal line, and just decided initially to not support the project because he didn't know what type of an emotional landmine the whole thing might implode into. Considering how battle scarred he was with regards to internal politics in this band, I can understand that point of view, but I'm very glad he did come around to signing off on that box.

One of the issues I've heard that Carl had with the PS remix was the differences from the mono mix, meaning the things that weren't on multitracks that couldn't be included, such as the bridge vocal on WIBN, the double-tracked vocals, the stuff on "God Only Knows", etc.

I'm not sure what process was involved in getting him to sign off. Did he simply not initially understand that technical reasons dictated those changes? Did he initially think they just made weird alternate mix decisions? Or was he aware that there was no way to make a stereo remix with *no* variations and thus was trying to argue the entire concept was objectionable because of that?

I don't know how much Carl weighed the politics of the situation in the case of the PS Sessions set. I've had the impression a lot of work was done on the set without a lot of involvement from the other band members, and at some point after a lot of work had been done, it was thrown in their laps for approval. I have a vague recollection that the band was on tour when Carl was presented with a copy of the stereo mix, and it was at that point that he raised concerns about the mix differences. And of course, at some point in the process Mike allegedly felt David Leaf's liner notes were too Brian-centric.

I don't know how much Carl or anyone feared the set would be a political minefield (beyond knowing that everything and anything could be), but from what I've heard, the set soured the band on some figures. David Leaf never did any BB liner notes again after that, and at least for a short time, a new team was working on archival releases when "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" came out.  


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on April 01, 2021, 11:25:39 AM
Yes, there are a few different things at play:
- the original intention/Spatializer mix (3D stereo) reflecting what the band heard in the studio - this was rejected by the label but encoded into...
- the master for the album as we all know it. The first pressing LP is based on the best available LP master tapes (and approved by Carl); subsequent reissues may have used later-generation copies (as happened with many albums of the era) OR, in the case of digital reissues, received different mastering. Any current issue of Sunflower would be based on the original LP MIX but may have a different mastering. The Spatializer would still be able to decode it, but it wouldn't be the exact same as the Carl-approved version unless it was the first pressing LP.
- 5.1 or quad mixes that have been released on various products over the years are not what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be)
- any new stereo remix would not be what was originally developed in the studio (enjoyable as they may be). I don't know what will be on the set, but it's likely that there will be alternate or modern remixes of many tracks, if not a "remixed album" (a la Pet Sounds sessions).

I can't speak for Mr. Desper but from what I've seen, I get the impression that his frustration stems from the refusal/reluctance to release the "original intention", while other remixes (5.1, quad) with no Carl involvement have gotten the green light.


In movie terms it would be like:
- original Director's Cut (Spatializer) is unavailable
- theatrical version (original LP) is still available but with different colour timings depending on format/pressing
- various "Special Editions" with modern special effects have been made with no involvement from the original director

This box set represents another opportunity to "right the wrong" and get the "Director's Cut" out there but it seems that it may not be happening (I'm not following too closely).

It occurs to me that with the unique technology of Stephen's at the time of recording and mixing, coupled with the subsequent reluctance by the label to 100% completely realize that vision when it came time to releasing it back in the day, coupled with the new enhancements which will happen with the box at that I can't wait to hear, this is almost a SMiLE Part II type of situation with the band, where the fully original intent may never be completely, 100% known.

Obviously the originally-released mix on LP should constitute the "final word" having been approved by the band, but if there was a spatializer intent/desire by the band beyond that which never saw the light of day, it just adds one more element of unsolvable mystery to this album and the band's canon, an interesting parallel of sorts to the admittedly much more complicated mystery of SMiLE.

I remain grateful for the different versions that we will soon be getting to hear, it's always cool to hear these amazing works of art in a new light. It sure would be great to be able to hear what Stephen in the band had intended for the spatializer mix to sound like, but if that's not possible due to any number of political and business practicality reasons, I nevertheless expect to be fully satisfied with the upcoming varieties we have to look forward to.

And once again, I respect Stephen's opinion on these matters, as should most any fan. It's a complex situation that is not possible to make everybody completely happy, unfortunately.

COMMENT:  Let us be clear, "Spatializer" as a viable consumer and professional iteration did not evolve until a decade after SF and SU were released. So the earlier albums and the product that came along later should not be interchanged or connected.

I never claim that SU or SF were recorded using Spatializer. It did not exist at that time.  The matrix I used was a different animal.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that the multi-track for SU or SF is the same thing as you know today. I never envisioned remixes. Therefore, the multi-track does NOT contain all the information used to record the Master Tape. The multi-track has been cut up, emollition wiped, and the mixes themselves were derived from about 25% re-amping of both instrumental and vocal tracks while other tracks had expansion via matrix based expanders -- which both are lost forever.  I used the multi-track as a means to reach the final product, and not enable a repeat mix. Now you can attempt to remix any multi-track, but back in the analog days, the multi-track was expendable and not a vehicle for storing everything that went into the Master. Other words, not everything on the Master Tape is contained in the Multi-track. Some sounds were obtained at the time of mixdown and after the multi-track was made.  Don't apply today's definition of a multi-track to one over fifty years old.   Anyway, why would you wish to re-do a mix that was done with Beach Boy supervision and involvement. Especially taking the original out of the analog format for any changes would depart from the original sonic signature. Out takes and mixes of just vocals are one thing, but the final versions are so entangled with Beach Boy musical involvement, any attempt to re-mix would not include all the music of the original.  Certainly I have taken some Beach Boy songs and re-mastered them, but when I do that I always make certain the listener knows it is a departure from the original or I provide the original for comparison. 

Although no one on the "feel flows" team has contacted me about anything, which I find strange, I am looking forward to hearing and re-visiting the old sounds. 

The only source for hearing SF and SU as originally intended is by listening to the needle drop section within my book Recording The Beach Boys. This analog sourced version is mastered by Carl and myself while being resolved using the playback matrix formula for the realization in the study-video.
  ~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on April 01, 2021, 11:54:31 AM
I always loved my original copy of Sunflower ( the European version) with mono Cottonfields as the opener... a wonderful sounding mix. Is that the same Spatializer(ish) mix as the US version?  If it is, I must say that it's still the best version I've ever heard. The two different CD reissues don't hold up to it very well at all... (hissssss)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on April 01, 2021, 01:27:39 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Stephen! I'm glad to hear that you are looking forward to revisiting that era, as we all are.

Thank you again for all you have provided over the years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on April 01, 2021, 02:30:10 PM
The thing is, I think the teams working on this stuff know what is and isn't on the multi-tracks. To use a similar (though certainly not identical) example, the "Pet Sounds" multitracks are missing elements added during the vintage mixdowns, etc. The people mixing it knew that, and made decisions based on all of the available information and materials, and well as by consulting the surviving members that did produce and participate in those sessions. So back in 1996, Brian directed them to, for instance, *mix out* the extraneous background talking heard in the original mono mix of "Here Today."

The idea is to remix to give a fresh view on the material, with the idea being that of course it *isn't* going to sound just like the original mixes. That's kind of the point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on April 01, 2021, 02:47:19 PM
The Kinks' VGPS box set has "remixes" based on incomplete multitracks, too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 01, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Isn't the simple answer to all of this that if you want the original, then buy the original. Scour eBay and hundreds of other sources until you get what you want. If you want pristine sound, albeit not quite what Carl (& Stephen did in mixing), buy a new release.

I'm not sure why people feel so "entitled", often to an impossible dream.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 01, 2021, 03:54:55 PM
Isn't the simple answer to all of this that if you want the original, then buy the original. Scour eBay and hundreds of other sources until you get what you want. If you want pristine sound, albeit not quite what Carl (& Stephen did in mixing), buy a new release.

I'm not sure why people feel so "entitled", often to an impossible dream.




Agreed. Again, it’s not like a George Lucas situation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on April 01, 2021, 07:45:26 PM
Hi Mr. Desper,

Thanks for replying here! 

In my case, the reason I like to hear remixes is that Brian Wilson's and The Beach Boy's productions have SO MUCH in them, and all of it is incredibly interesting, yet not everything makes it to the final mix, as some parts are not mixed in and others are so multi-layered it's hard to tell exactly what is going on.  So, I always find it extremely exciting and welcome to hear something new in a Beach Boy song, such as a beautiful counterpoint never heard before as their productions are full of overwhelming genius.  And... without access to the original multi-track tapes or session tapes, if the only way to hear a "new" snippet of musical beauty is by a remix, then, yeah, let me hear a remix.

But, yeah, let me hear the original, too!  So you're saying if the original master tapes were used and run through your matrix and mixed to CD and LP, then we could hear the original intent of the album without having to buy any special equipment, i.e. your matrix add-on?  It seems so simple!  And everyone with a modern amp has Spatializer settings on it, so I don't understand why record executives act like they're afraid of releasing something that has a Spatializer-type effect on it.  Seems very weird and backward to me.

I'm really sorry you weren't contacted to give your input into the box set.  It will definitely be missed.  But Mark and Alan have done great things before, and we're all hoping, and expecting, they hit another home run this time! 

You keep mentioning being able to hear the original intent of the album by getting your book.  But it's not available at this time, is it?  Please let us know when we'll be able to listen to it again!

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on April 01, 2021, 10:56:30 PM
Isn't the simple answer to all of this that if you want the original, then buy the original. Scour eBay and hundreds of other sources until you get what you want. If you want pristine sound, albeit not quite what Carl (& Stephen did in mixing), buy a new release.

I'm not sure why people feel so "entitled", often to an impossible dream.



I personally do not believe it’s that simple, no.

What would be the most simple is the multi tracks don’t exist and we just have the original masters (this is the case for a lot of catalogs- one prominent example is the Mamas & Papas. There is actually a partially remixed 1970 compilation which I find very interesting).

I think one point that Desper is making that is being glossed over is that record making in the 1960s-early ‘70s was not perceived how it is today. There was not a “record all the parts individually, and then later have a thing called a mixdown, then go back and tweak etc”. It was a process of getting the 1/4” mono or stereo master - that was the “performance” that was captured to tape.

I personally believe a consideration can be made to respecting the original work and the time in which it was created.  Additionally, the paradox of choice may come into play also- the concept that more choices tends to lead to less satisfaction.

“I look at sound like a painting, you have a balance and the balance is conceived in your mind. You finish the sound, dub it down, and you’ve stamped out a picture of your balance with the mono dubdown. But in stereo, you leave that dubdown to the listener - to his speaker placement and speaker balance. It just doesnt seem complete to me." -Brian Wilson


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 02, 2021, 12:42:29 PM
I think one point that Desper is making that is being glossed over is that record making in the 1960s-early ‘70s was not perceived how it is today. There was not a “record all the parts individually, and then later have a thing called a mixdown, then go back and tweak etc”. It was a process of getting the 1/4” mono or stereo master - that was the “performance” that was captured to tape.

And what is especially interesting about this very salient point is that 1970 and the surrounding years were themselves a bridge between the two major eras in recording.  I consider the mono, stereo, three-track, and 4-track era to be of a piece -- despite the increased possibility of overdub, the principles of 3- and 4-track recording are essential live to mono, microphone based technique.    The 16- and 24-track era are also of a piece after a certain time.  I think automation is definitely the harbinger of the new era, as hard as it might be to pin down when the true "multitrack era" began.

But 8-track era is sui generis.  Too few tracks for an overdub festival, too many tracks entirely conceive of the recording as a strictly performance based medium.  I think the early, pre-automation 16-track era inherited its initial mindset from 8-track mindset, and that's where we find ourselves for Sunflower and Surf's Up.  And that's where we find ourselves as far as Donny's point goes.  The mix is now way more important than it ever has been before -- certainly, just 3 years earlier there's was not much one had to do to mix at all -- since everything had been tracked together and monitored largely in mono while so doing.  Now, you actually have to put work into a mix, and do some planning.

I think it's at these moments where a lot of the value of art gets imparted into the art.  At the human moments.  Sometimes it doesn't even have to be good art, as such, but because the moment captured in time is so human, there is value there.  I've always thought that Jackson Pollocks sell for so much at auction not so much because his painting is "good" but because he was able to imbed himself and his time in the canvas.  I think this goes for a lot of abstract artists especially.  But it needn't be limited to abstract artists -- part of the great thrill of seeing a painting in a museum is the ability to see the brushstrokes in 3D and know they were created by a human in some other time; in some other part of the world.  If you're lucky, you can smell the art.  There's a particular sculpture-type thing in MOMA that smells like an ashtray.  That artist connected with me, somehow, by allowing me to smell the cigarettes they constantly smoked while making the art.

It's about sharing a moment with a human, I think.  So hearing the original mixes and masters are an added human connection -- Steve and Carl and whomever else was drafted into running a fader on the ol' Quad-8 injected their humanity in that move, recorded their existence, and passed it on to us.  To not have those moments there in the music is unequivocally a loss, but I think that the identity of art includes loss as a sine qua non, indeed, essential player.  It's the shade to the dark that gives us chiaroscuro.  It makes art a conversation--a chronological experience--a lung inhaling and exhaling.

And then of course, what is lost gets compensated for by equally human moves -- and again, it's a question of the individual appreciator's values, but there is no responsibility to privilege one set of human moves over another's.  It's humans that do remixes, humans that do remasters, and at the end of the day, in our particular case of the Beach Boys, we know these people are good humans who authentically love the music -- which helps a lot.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: anders wyller on April 02, 2021, 12:53:47 PM
I think one point that Desper is making that is being glossed over is that record making in the 1960s-early ‘70s was not perceived how it is today. There was not a “record all the parts individually, and then later have a thing called a mixdown, then go back and tweak etc”. It was a process of getting the 1/4” mono or stereo master - that was the “performance” that was captured to tape.

And what is especially interesting about this very salient point is that 1970 and the surrounding years were themselves a bridge between the two major eras in recording.  I consider the mono, stereo, three-track, and 4-track era to be of a piece -- despite the increased possibility of overdub, the principles of 3- and 4-track recording are essential live to mono, microphone based technique.    The 16- and 24-track era are also of a piece after a certain time.  I think automation is definitely the harbinger of the new era, as hard as it might be to pin down when the true "multitrack era" began.

But 8-track era is sui generis.  Too few tracks for an overdub festival, too many tracks entirely conceive of the recording as a strictly performance based medium.  I think the early, pre-automation 16-track era inherited its initial mindset from 8-track mindset, and that's where we find ourselves for Sunflower and Surf's Up.  And that's where we find ourselves as far as Donny's point goes.  The mix is now way more important than it ever has been before -- certainly, just 3 years earlier there's was not much one had to do to mix at all -- since everything had been tracked together and monitored largely in mono while so doing.  Now, you actually have to put work into a mix, and do some planning.

I think it's at these moments where a lot of the value of art gets imparted into the art.  At the human moments.  Sometimes it doesn't even have to be good art, as such, but because the moment captured in time is so human, there is value there.  I've always thought that Jackson Pollocks sell for so much at auction not so much because his painting is "good" but because he was able to imbed himself and his time in the canvas.  I think this goes for a lot of abstract artists especially.  But it needn't be limited to abstract artists -- part of the great thrill of seeing a painting in a museum is the ability to see the brushstrokes in 3D and know they were created by a human in some other time; in some other part of the world.  If you're lucky, you can smell the art.  There's a particular sculpture-type thing in MOMA that smells like an ashtray.  That artist connected with me, somehow, by allowing me to smell the cigarettes they constantly smoked while making the art.

It's about sharing a moment with a human, I think.  So hearing the original mixes and masters are an added human connection -- Steve and Carl and whomever else was drafted into running a fader on the ol' Quad-8 injected their humanity in that move, recorded their existence, and passed it on to us.  To not have those moments there in the music is unequivocally a loss, but I think that the identity of art includes loss as a sine qua non, indeed, essential player.  It's the shade to the dark that gives us chiaroscuro.  It makes art a conversation--a chronological experience--a lung inhaling and exhaling.

And then of course, what is lost gets compensated for by equally human moves -- and again, it's a question of the individual appreciator's values, but there is no responsibility to privilege one set of human moves over another's.  It's humans that do remixes, humans that do remasters, and at the end of the day, in our particular case of the Beach Boys, we know these people are good humans who authentically love the music -- which helps a lot.





Great, great post - thx.





anderswyller.com


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 02, 2021, 05:21:08 PM
They should have at least talked to Stephen Desper... ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on April 02, 2021, 05:21:46 PM
I don't care about who mixes and different this and that. All this is that! As a long-time fan - 50 years+ - I'm just happy there is "new" material coming out, legally. Hopefully I'll stay alive, trying to avoid this damn corona, for many years. In the next few years we'll hopefully get to hear more from the best era in the BB history. So stop bashing, stop those silly meaningless discussions, and just be happy there is "new" material coming out at all! I'm happy for every little snippet that comes out. Wishing a Happy Easter to all BB fans and prominent guests of this board!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 03, 2021, 12:24:16 AM
^ Here here👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on April 03, 2021, 03:54:10 AM
I don't care about who mixes and different this and that. All this is that! As a long-time fan - 50 years+ - I'm just happy there is "new" material coming out, legally. Hopefully I'll stay alive, trying to avoid this damn corona, for many years. In the next few years we'll hopefully get to hear more from the best era in the BB history. So stop bashing, stop those silly meaningless discussions, and just be happy there is "new" material coming out at all! I'm happy for every little snippet that comes out. Wishing a Happy Easter to all BB fans and prominent guests of this board!

I think any discussion about the changing ontological status of the mix is entirely pertinent to this thread and is far from meaningless! Whilst I concur that any project that holds a stethoscope up to the Sunflower / Surf's Up era is going to be interesting and worthwhile, to adopt the mentality that we should be happy with what we get is to lay yourself wide open to a good soap-dropping in the prison shower from the forces of capitalism. 

People do care about the ontology of the mix in this case, as these two albums, Sunflower in particular, are defined by their mix, (this Donny, Joshilyn et al have succinctly explained). Not only that, Stephen Desper, the actual MIXER of the original project, has stated many times that the way to hear these projects as the artists intended is via the encoded matrix mix and in a correctly orientated listening environment. His study videos bear this out. Whilst it is true that the average 50+ year fan may not care about things like this, (as bsten has ably demonstrated), a lot of this boxed set's potential audience DO CARE. These are the audiophiles, the recorded sound scholars, and the historians (although in honour of Joshilyn's videos I think all Beach Boys practical sound historians should be referred to as hoistorians henceforth).

Sorry to single you out bsten. To a point I'm playing devil's advocate. Not only is your post as valid as anyone's, it  also perfectly asks the purism vs revisionism question of 'does it matter'? The answer is 'to some yes, to others, no'. But as always such a simple binarism belies the nuances which are being discussed. Of course historical accuracy matters, but should that inhibit any new interpretations?

It was stated earlier in the thread that up until the fixed medium of recorded sound, the printed score was an interpretive tool. The advent of recording for the first time gave sound object status. If one rejects the myth that up until the advent of multitracking the purpose of recording was to capture a live performance, then one quickly sees (hears) that even as far back as the acoustic era of wax recording, this was a heavily mediated process. The introduction of microphones further separated recording from a live performance. The idea that one could hear a performer singing or playing as if standing right next to you  was perhaps the most shocking and revolutionary aspect of recording that ever took place in terms of its status as an ontological object. Recording has always been mediated, it has always been manipulated. It has always been presented as a fixed medium deemed ready by the creators for dissemination. The final word.

However, I have always wondered about Brian's famous quote about the sacrosanctity of the mix being preserved better through mono. Had he never seen a tone knob? Since the 1930's, playback equipment in the home had given the consumer the ability to filter the sound via tone controls. Whilst his point is well taken, it seems to refer to early hard-panned stereo such as Don't Worry Baby, or much of the Beatles early stereo mixes. My point is that the user manipulation of the finished product began long before Brian was born. The stereo  of the early 1970's  in fact really cemented and encouraged the idea of the audiophile, and the sacrosanctity of the mix. This is an era when home users really were concerned with speaker placement and listening position, the prerequisites under which Desper's matrix operates. Perhaps Mark and Alan are conscious of the fact that very few people access music in this way anymore, with headphones now the preferred delivery medium. Stereo is a different beast through headphones, and this informs many contemporary mix decisions.

With this in mind, it is interesting to note that the majority of the 2012 boxed set MIC, and the contemporaneous single album stereo releases are, to my ears  mixed to be more headphone-centric than previous releases. In fact it took me awhile to reconcile myself with this set, as the pre-1970 material in particular sounded very mediated over speakers. Through headphones however, a lot of the decisions, particularly regarding dynamics started to make sense. Also, much of what defined the sound of this set is that it was , according to Mark mixed fully 'in the box', that is to say no outboard gear. As someone who had also gone fully over to plug-ins by this point, I could certainly hear the difference. Since MIC, there have been some amazing advancements in the sound of plug-ins. Not only hardware based emulations such as the UAD plugs but also companies like BrainWorx. Even Waves have upped their game (the RS124 emulation - wow). My point. 10 years ago you could easily hear the plug-ins, now, not so much. Mark, if after the MIC box I ever doubted you, I have to say that the Wild Honey stereo mix more than brought me round. Great through headphone and speakers. We're in safe hands.

So whilst I would welcome, and would pay premium for a Desper encoded Sunflower mix to be included as the central part of the set, I can understand why this probably won't happen. Most people do not access music in a way that would be conjusive to it. We have also, since the 1930's manipulated the end product, essentially voiding this idea of the sacrosanctity of the mix before it even took hold.

I personally like art that is in flux, that can be open to reinterpretation. Access to multi tracks almost takes recorded music back to the idea of the score as an interpretive tool. If the material is good, then surely it can not only withstand reinterpretation, but also thrive because of it. Out of all the classic art forms, music is the most ephemeral. It is a flexible artform.

Free those multitracks I say, but hand me a copy of the encoded Sunflower for my desert island sojourn.

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 03, 2021, 06:00:07 PM
I don't care about who mixes and different this and that. All this is that! As a long-time fan - 50 years+ - I'm just happy there is "new" material coming out, legally. Hopefully I'll stay alive, trying to avoid this damn corona, for many years. In the next few years we'll hopefully get to hear more from the best era in the BB history. So stop bashing, stop those silly meaningless discussions, and just be happy there is "new" material coming out at all! I'm happy for every little snippet that comes out. Wishing a Happy Easter to all BB fans and prominent guests of this board!

Whilst I concur that any project that holds a stethoscope up to the Sunflower / Surf's Up era is going to be interesting and worthwhile, to adopt the mentality that we should be happy with what we get is to lay yourself wide open to a good soap-dropping in the prison shower from the forces of capitalism. 

Well, that choice of metaphor is just class all the way . . . hardly likely to be offensive to anyone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 03, 2021, 07:57:33 PM
Lots to digest from Greg -- thanks for Hoistorians coinage, I love it!

I agree, obviously, that there is much value in this discussion.  It's easy to see it as bitching and moaning if you pass over some of the points people are making too dismissively.  But it's actually a really important thing to consider.  It's true, and I think one would be hard pressed to formulate a satisfying argument to the contrary, that art is not a one-way street.  I don't think anybody really wants that--it would be boring, yeah?  I like to think of art (ad arguendo, at least, if not de facto, if I may mix my Latin stock phrases a bit) as people throwing stuff out there and saying, "well, whaddya think of that?"  To create art and share it with people is, in a sense inviting pushback.

One of my least favourite experiences is creating something, sharing it, and getting back toothless bromides.  I would rather someone say "I hate your video" than "Nice video" because at least hatred has some real feeling behind it.  The point is, I think most artists, despite the agony of negative feedback, would much prefer some sort of pushback to tacit, plastic "enjoyment" of the work.

That's not to say that it's ok to be needlessly negative.  Especially when we are engaged in discussing work whose creator is liable to walk in on us.  It's different and more abstract to talk about criticism and to push back against artists who aren't around anymore.  It's easier, and it's also a sucker punch in some ways because they're not around anymore to push back themselves.

So I think the question we have to ask ourselves on this messageboard is, how do we continue to have meaningful discussions about this music?  Repeating over and over again how awesome the music is and how much we love it is not really that interesting (and, frankly, a bit of a given, here?).  I'm always looking for ways to drive interesting, meaningful, and if possible, new discussions about the music that I consider to be legitimately important music in the history of western music.  And in the meantime, I'm trying to get people who have not been Beach Boys fans to come over to our side.

But I think to do both of those things is going to require some hard discussions (hopefully not emotionally hard--I just mean hard because it makes us all think deeply.)  And I think that thinking deeply about our relationship to this music,--what it should be, what it can be, what it could be, what it should not be-- both qua art and qua commercial product, is a huge and worthwhile topic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on April 04, 2021, 12:15:49 AM
I don't care about who mixes and different this and that. All this is that! As a long-time fan - 50 years+ - I'm just happy there is "new" material coming out, legally. Hopefully I'll stay alive, trying to avoid this damn corona, for many years. In the next few years we'll hopefully get to hear more from the best era in the BB history. So stop bashing, stop those silly meaningless discussions, and just be happy there is "new" material coming out at all! I'm happy for every little snippet that comes out. Wishing a Happy Easter to all BB fans and prominent guests of this board!

Whilst I concur that any project that holds a stethoscope up to the Sunflower / Surf's Up era is going to be interesting and worthwhile, to adopt the mentality that we should be happy with what we get is to lay yourself wide open to a good soap-dropping in the prison shower from the forces of capitalism. 

Well, that choice of metaphor is just class all the way . . . hardly likely to be offensive to anyone.

Read it in context.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 04, 2021, 12:17:50 PM
Great metaphor, we can’t just settle for whatever released on a whim. How about a feel flows deluxe edition with Desper’s encoded mix?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on April 04, 2021, 01:07:26 PM
It is valid to make a point about the exploitative nature of capitalism. But some might find the comparison between what was implied and a relatively trivial musical release somewhat disproportionate and distasteful.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on April 04, 2021, 01:47:29 PM
It is valid to make a point about the exploitative nature of capitalism. But some might find the comparison between what was implied and a relatively trivial musical release somewhat disproportionate and distasteful.

It was a general point, and not specifically about Feel Flows. It certainly wasn't supposed to be controversial. I won't delete it as it has already been quoted, but apologies to Sam and thetogo for any offense caused. I'll rein in my metaphors in future.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on April 04, 2021, 02:37:07 PM
I wasn't bothered or offended, I was just considering how others might be in light of the previous comment. I know that wasn't obvious from my post.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 04, 2021, 02:52:04 PM
I wasn't bothered or offended, I was just considering how others might be in light of the previous comment. I know that wasn't obvious from my post.

+ 1

I must say that I myself do a fair bit of stirring. Now I feel bad that I made a point of it. I don't take anything too seriously, so don't stress on my account.

For the most part I find it's a pretty good group here and we all understand each other well and no-one sets out to offend anyone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on April 04, 2021, 02:54:41 PM
I should also add that only commenting on that sentence does a disservice to what was an interesting post, along with others on the topic (Joshiliyn et al).

I am reminded of a quote I saw many years ago, which was contemporary to the period in which the concert hall acoustics were first imprinted on classical recordings (after the acoustic era perhaps), and where a commentator of the time was questioning the authenticity of such practices. I think it would have been in the Greg Milner book if you have read that.

It would also be interesting to know from Mark L the extent to which they do have the headphone generation in mind when working on this stuff; it is surely unlikely that headphones are anything more than a secondary reference whilst he is doing the work.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on April 05, 2021, 05:24:41 AM
What I meant was I see a lot of selfishess - I want this, I want that. We could discuss forever till our heads turn blue. Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but in the end, well, we get what we get. And there's nothing we can do about it.

I fully agree that it's sad Desper had no say. Sad news indeed, still nothing we can do anything about.

There's no doubt we get good value for our money. Anything "new" from the BB is welcome, and worth every penny.

It's funny though, w/all boots that have been released, there's hardly been any arguments or discussions. We have accepted them and thanked God we had some ear-pleasing stuff from "our" boys. Audiophiles or not.

I am thankful to have lived in the same period as the BB, and not in the 1700's 1200's or whatever.

Still happy for every little snippet that's released, legal or not, preferably legal. Long live the Beach Boys! They certainly made my life better...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on April 05, 2021, 10:41:14 AM
Great metaphor, we can’t just settle for whatever released on a whim. How about a feel flows deluxe edition with Desper’s encoded mix?

It's always unfortunate when art and commerce collide, and the sales potential for an eminently worthwhile release are limited to a relatively narrow demographic of hard-cores, so that that research, personnel and packaging expenses become a factor, if that's what happened here. Luckily Alan and Mark are on board to ensure that these obstacles to full fruition are minimized as much as humanly possible, and can provide a more than adequate buffer for any minor technical compromises that may or may not have had to be made here, due to budgetary restrictions.

Too bad the flowering of lavish, nearly unlimited support for new releases that blossomed during the late '60s didn't happen to coincide with archival era (and that Smile couldn't have benefited from the full financial support and treatment from Capitol that was forthcoming at the time if only it had been completed. I can just picture that jewel dropping down onto the heads, eyes and ears of the unsuspecting masses in its contemporary context, both as an object of unparalleled physical and aural loveliness.)

With Regard to Desper (and Carl Wilson)'s visions of sonic perfection for this material, I bow down to their dedication for their craft and pursuit of absolute perfection and beauty. Thank you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on April 05, 2021, 02:49:19 PM
Given the increasingly tortured politics in play around the band and its surviving members, we are indeed fortunate to get anything "new" from the band. Given that, it is highly likely that any discussion of the sound technology at the heart of SUNFLOWER and SURF'S UP was simply unable to rise to a sufficient level of scrutiny to warrant what might have been another impasse-producing moment in a project that seems to have had more than its share of them.

But fans can still speak with their pocketbooks on that particular issue if they so choose. Once FEEL FLOWS is released, the various platforms for raising money to fund a project that would permit the needed work to re-implement Steve's technology and bring it out as a separate set on its own could be put into play to provide a framework to bring this to fruition (along the lines of SMiLE BRIAN's suggestion).

What's needed for that is a credible budget estimate for the work necessary to prepare the new mixes, and the associated costs to produce a physical product (CDs, packaging).

Since FEEL FLOWS won't provide a full re-mix of either LP, this strikes me as the way to proceed to preserve what Carl and Steve masterminded back in the day, regardless of what might happen in the future.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 05, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on April 05, 2021, 09:21:40 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 05, 2021, 11:42:38 PM
The release date for Feel Flows box set is July 22, 2021"

Maybe he means 2022. July 22, 2022 indeed is a Friday.
Or it could be July 23, 2023. Don't know if that is a Friday, though.
Or it could be July 32, 2525.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
What I meant was I see a lot of selfishess - I want this, I want that. We could discuss forever till our heads turn blue. Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but in the end, well, we get what we get. And there's nothing we can do about it.

I fully agree that it's sad Desper had no say. Sad news indeed, still nothing we can do anything about.

There's no doubt we get good value for our money. Anything "new" from the BB is welcome, and worth every penny.

It's funny though, w/all boots that have been released, there's hardly been any arguments or discussions. We have accepted them and thanked God we had some ear-pleasing stuff from "our" boys. Audiophiles or not.

I am thankful to have lived in the same period as the BB, and not in the 1700's 1200's or whatever.

Still happy for every little snippet that's released, legal or not, preferably legal. Long live the Beach Boys! They certainly made my life better...

THIS. Given how passionate Howie has sounded about the project over the last year I am completely confident that this will be a set we're all going to be happy with. Sure, I'd love Desper's input (both interviews and on the mixes) - but we didn't get that with this. However, I have total faith in Mark, Alan, Howie, and everyone else who has had a hand in this project. Look at the Smile Sessions, look at MiC. Look at the Wild Honey releases. Sonically we have never been let down by these guys, when it comes to packaging physical boxsets we have been some of the luckiest fans on the planet (I don't think I've seen any boxset come close to the detail that The Smile Sessions had).

bsten, you raise such a great point about how lucky we are as people to even be alive at this point in time - most all of us live 100x better than kings who lived 200 years ago. We are the most fortunate people on the planet yet we seem so discontented with the luxuries we've been blessed to enjoy in this life.

Also, I find it humorous that the people who complain so much about capitalism do so on computers/phones built by child labor with parts that are undeniably killing this planet. If we're going to point out the failings of capitalism there are better places to start than a Beach Boys release that is entirely full of tunes that would only exist in a capitalist society.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on April 06, 2021, 06:37:52 AM
Also, I find it humorous that the people who complain so much about capitalism do so on computers/phones built by child labor with parts that are undeniably killing this planet. If we're going to point out the failings of capitalism there are better places to start than a Beach Boys release that is entirely full of tunes that would only exist in a capitalist society.

Breath taking hypocrisy is my middle name.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on April 06, 2021, 07:35:16 AM

Also, I find it humorous that the people who complain so much about capitalism do so on computers/phones built by child labor with parts that are undeniably killing this planet.

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2021, 06:18:30 PM
Also, I find it humorous that the people who complain so much about capitalism do so on computers/phones built by child labor with parts that are undeniably killing this planet. If we're going to point out the failings of capitalism there are better places to start than a Beach Boys release that is entirely full of tunes that would only exist in a capitalist society.

Breath taking hypocrisy is my middle name.

Mine too at times :-D. I do also agree with much of your initial post.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on April 07, 2021, 09:51:29 AM
Also, I find it humorous that the people who complain so much about capitalism do so on computers/phones built by child labor with parts that are undeniably killing this planet. If we're going to point out the failings of capitalism there are better places to start than a Beach Boys release that is entirely full of tunes that would only exist in a capitalist society.

Breath taking hypocrisy is my middle name.

Mine too at times :-D. I do also agree with much of your initial post.

And with my faux pas now forgiven, and a potential thread derailment avoided, its back to business as usual.

Hmmm, I wonder when this set is coming out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 07, 2021, 10:23:53 AM
Nothing Beach Boys related on any RSD lists this year


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 07, 2021, 02:11:56 PM

Hmmm, I wonder when this set is coming out

Okay - now you're talking. If it was before mid-May we'd probably have some solid info by now.

I was hoping for June which would be early Summer - plus I just want this asap.

The 22 July date, although not a Friday is the best lead we have - just thinking outside the square here for a mo - that date is a Thursday, which if this box was to be released on the Friday morning in New Zealand, Australia  etc. - that would still be Thursday in the U.S. - what do you guys think of that logic?

My money is on 23 July for the time being (until I change my mind . . . again).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: onkster on April 07, 2021, 05:14:23 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?
Hell, I’d settled for a reverb-free or semi-dry remix in stereo. There’s a great album in there buried under a wall of sonic muck.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Do you have a link? I can’t find it on Twitter.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 10, 2021, 01:42:48 PM
Funny, when I just checked in to see what's happening in this thread I could've sworn I saw a tumbleweed roll across my screen.  :(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 10, 2021, 06:55:44 PM
Funny, when I just checked in to see what's happening in this thread I could've sworn I saw a tumbleweed roll across my screen.  :(
:o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on April 11, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Funny, when I just checked in to see what's happening in this thread I could've sworn I saw a tumbleweed roll across my screen.  :(

It'll be raining new desert content shortly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 11, 2021, 08:05:06 PM
I suspect the only new physical format releases from Capitol/the Beach Boys/whoever owns this stuff now will be Best of the Beach Boys, Volume 409; Pet Sounds 55th anniversary box set; and Mike Love Sings His Bank Book. We'll get another Al Jardine solo album before Feel Flows sees the light of day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on April 12, 2021, 02:01:14 PM
Keep the faith and it'll be here soon enough. All the indications are that things are moving in the right direction - no doubt it will have been worth the wait when the time does come where we can sit back and enjoy it in its full splendour!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 12, 2021, 06:19:52 PM
It's a frustrating wait. Hopefully they get the marketing moving on this soon and give it the promotion it deserves.

The Record Store Day news was disappointing, hard to believe they wouldn't take advantage of that.

Ah well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on April 12, 2021, 08:06:15 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 12, 2021, 08:41:57 PM
Thank you very much, Howie  ;D

You are a godsend


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on April 12, 2021, 09:02:47 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

Hopefully this means the machine printing the box/discs!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 12, 2021, 10:08:48 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.


Thank you for that ! 😎


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 12, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 12, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.
I hope so. Too much talk and not enough action!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 13, 2021, 03:31:57 AM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.
Howie providing all the info we need! Much appreciated as always.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on April 13, 2021, 06:35:23 AM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

Hoping for an official announcement soon. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on April 13, 2021, 06:37:44 AM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

That’s what she said?!  ;D

In all seriousness, awesome news! Thanks for sharing, Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on April 13, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

It's great to hear another update that this thing is getting nearer by the day!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 13, 2021, 03:21:51 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?
On Twitter: I actually asked him about a surround mix, and he responded to someone else to the affirmative.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 13, 2021, 03:23:56 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?
On Twitter. He said this in 2009. Hat tip Quadraphonic Quad: "Four months ago I was moving house and I found the master tape of Song Cycle in a garage, so I had it digitalized, to save it for my grandchildren. And we're going to put it out again in 5.1 surround sound. It'll be as manic as before but it'll have much better clarity."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 13, 2021, 03:26:29 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 13, 2021, 03:27:03 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?
Twitter


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 13, 2021, 03:39:29 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.
I hope so. Too much talk and not enough action!

I think you mean “action that you can see”; Howie and crew have worked their asses off to make this happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 13, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
Speaking of unreleased surround-related material, Van Dyke Parks has revelaed on Twitter that a surround mix of his Song Cycle LP was created, but no one wants to release it.

Oh my GOD. I’d kill for that. Where did he say that? Any way we can help? A go fund me?
Recently on Twitter. He said this in 2009: Four months ago I was moving house and I found the master tape of Song Cycle in a garage, so I had it digitalized, to save it for my grandchildren. And we're going to put it out again in 5.1 surround sound. It'll be as manic as before but it'll have much better clarity."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on April 14, 2021, 05:41:31 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.
I hope so. Too much talk and not enough action!

I think you mean “action that you can see”; Howie and crew have worked their asses off to make this happen.

No doubt, and many, many thanks to Alan, Mark, and Craig as well as Howie. You have all added so much to our lives in recent years through your tireless efforts. Oh, and thanks to the band as well, this is going to be a mind-blowingly huge and perfectly breaking wave to catch a ride on!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jwoverho on April 15, 2021, 09:27:20 PM
It's coming.
It's major.

The machine is at full speed.

Thanks for that Howie! Just those few words are enough to dispel the kind of speculation that tends to dominate discussion on message boards.

I've been thinking back to reading David Leaf's book, THE BEACH BOYS AND THE CALIFORNIA MYTH, in the 80's and being fascinated and at the same time saddened at all the work that was done by the group during this period being met with indifference in the States along with much being shelved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on April 16, 2021, 10:51:56 AM
I ordered from the link on amazon.uk and I just received the email that the release was pushed to September.b ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 16, 2021, 01:29:16 PM
What link?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on April 16, 2021, 01:55:53 PM
What link?

It has been transformed into generic listing hell: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08TZK8TTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 16, 2021, 02:16:59 PM
I ordered from the link on amazon.uk and I just received the email that the release was pushed to September.b ???

They're sure to sell at 1000 units . . . . in January!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 16, 2021, 03:17:06 PM
It better not be September. Awful time to release a Beach Boys box set, especially Sunflower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 16, 2021, 04:10:41 PM
It better not be September. Awful time to release a Beach Boys box set, especially Sunflower.

Sunflower itself was released August 31, 1970, literally one day before September started, so while I don't completely disagree with your opinion, it would be perfectly in keeping with the album it is culled from.

Also, if they release it in September, they'll perhaps get some people in the holiday gift buying mode, moreso than a July "summer" release - that may be a marketing call that's maybe happening here, and that'd actually be understandable.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on April 16, 2021, 04:31:03 PM
We don't know for certain that the set listed on Amazon UK is Feel Flows, so it could be another product that's been pushed back on the release schedule.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on April 16, 2021, 04:36:55 PM
It better not be September. Awful time to release a Beach Boys box set, especially Sunflower.

Could the original August 31 release explain part of the reason why it performed so badly on the charts in 1970 >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on April 16, 2021, 09:31:03 PM
Just wish we’d get some real definitive answer. Little ridiculous. Only the losers like us are going to buy it. What’s the big deal in letting us know definitively? John Doe who knows Kokomo doesn’t care about this. The nerds on the forums do.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 17, 2021, 12:24:16 AM
2 things:
One, the date of that amazon link box isn't necessarily accurate, even if it is the box. That thing is just a placeholder for now, and anything can change about that;
Two, if the "machine is at full speed" ie. this box set is literally being manufactured, then the release date is before September.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on April 17, 2021, 03:53:56 AM
2 things:
One, the date of that amazon link box isn't necessarily accurate, even if it is the box. That thing is just a placeholder for now, and anything can change about that;
Two, if the "machine is at full speed" ie. this box set is literally being manufactured, then the release date is before September.

Howie?
Stephen?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on April 17, 2021, 05:41:42 AM
Just wish we’d get some real definitive answer. Little ridiculous. Only the losers like us are going to buy it. What’s the big deal in letting us know definitively? John Doe who knows Kokomo doesn’t care about this. The nerds on the forums do.

Patience, people. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on April 17, 2021, 08:38:04 AM
In an interview on the Michael Shelly radio show on WFMU, Al Jardine just mentioned/confirmed that July 23rd is indeed the release date for the Feel Flows box set. The show is just airing now, but I believe it can be listened to later on the WFMU archives site: https://www.wfmu.org/recentarchives.php


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 17, 2021, 08:40:06 AM
Great catch!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 17, 2021, 08:57:34 AM
Well there ya go  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 17, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

Hmmm, I wonder when this set is coming out

Okay - now you're talking. If it was before mid-May we'd probably have some solid info by now.

I was hoping for June which would be early Summer - plus I just want this asap.

The 22 July date, although not a Friday is the best lead we have - just thinking outside the square here for a mo - that date is a Thursday, which if this box was to be released on the Friday morning in New Zealand, Australia  etc. - that would still be Thursday in the U.S. - what do you guys think of that logic?

My money is on 23 July for the time being (until I change my mind . . . again).

Just couldn't resist an "I called it!"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on April 18, 2021, 01:01:26 PM

Hmmm, I wonder when this set is coming out

Okay - now you're talking. If it was before mid-May we'd probably have some solid info by now.

I was hoping for June which would be early Summer - plus I just want this asap.

The 22 July date, although not a Friday is the best lead we have - just thinking outside the square here for a mo - that date is a Thursday, which if this box was to be released on the Friday morning in New Zealand, Australia  etc. - that would still be Thursday in the U.S. - what do you guys think of that logic?

My money is on 23 July for the time being (until I change my mind . . . again).

Just couldn't resist an "I called it!"

Unless you changed your mind . . . Again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 18, 2021, 01:41:26 PM

Hmmm, I wonder when this set is coming out

Okay - now you're talking. If it was before mid-May we'd probably have some solid info by now.

I was hoping for June which would be early Summer - plus I just want this asap.

The 22 July date, although not a Friday is the best lead we have - just thinking outside the square here for a mo - that date is a Thursday, which if this box was to be released on the Friday morning in New Zealand, Australia  etc. - that would still be Thursday in the U.S. - what do you guys think of that logic?

My money is on 23 July for the time being (until I change my mind . . . again).

Just couldn't resist an "I called it!"

Unless you changed your mind . . . Again.

Yeah, well, . . . :-[


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jwoverho on April 20, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
It better not be September. Awful time to release a Beach Boys box set, especially Sunflower.

"We're sure to sell a million units in September!" ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on April 20, 2021, 06:06:43 PM
It better not be September. Awful time to release a Beach Boys box set, especially Sunflower.

"We're sure to sell a million units in September!" ;)

“Everyone will buy it! Who cares if they have lives?!?”  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on April 26, 2021, 02:02:19 PM

They say "No news is Good news!"

I've got a feeling something very special is brewing, because it's been quiet here for a while.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on April 26, 2021, 03:58:44 PM
Very quiet.

Place will explode the second we hear something... whenever that will be


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on May 03, 2021, 05:34:43 AM
Hmmm... Howie brought up Behold The Night on the Endless Harmony board version of this thread, so that's getting an official release, from what it looks like. :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pmugghc on May 03, 2021, 10:48:19 AM
The Twitter account @beachboyslegacy posted the following info, I have no idea whether the info is true or just a wish list, but I'd be very happy (esp för I've got a Friend) if it is true:

Feel Flows, The Beach Boys box-set, will include material from Dennis Wilson's lost album 'Poops/Hubba Hubba'. These are the tracks that will probably be in the set:

Settle Down
Ol' Movie
Behold The Night
It's A New Day
I've Got A Friend
Baby, Baby
All Of My Life/Ecology
 
Remember:
Settle Down: Sound Of Free early version
Ol' Movie: Cuddle Up early version
Behold The Night
It's A New Day: shampoo commercial
I've Got A Friend
Baby, Baby: performed live once by The Beach Boys
All Of My Life/Ecology = River Song early version


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on May 03, 2021, 10:51:06 AM
The Twitter account @beachboyslegacy posted the following info, I have no idea whether the info is true or just a wish list, but I'd be very happy (esp för I've got a Friend) if it is true:

Feel Flows, The Beach Boys box-set, will include material from Dennis Wilson's lost album 'Poops/Hubba Hubba'. These are the tracks that will probably be in the set:

Settle Down
Ol' Movie
Behold The Night
It's A New Day
I've Got A Friend
Baby, Baby
All Of My Life/Ecology
 
Remember:
Settle Down: Sound Of Free early version
Ol' Movie: Cuddle Up early version
Behold The Night
It's A New Day: shampoo commercial
I've Got A Friend
Baby, Baby: performed live once by The Beach Boys
All Of My Life/Ecology = River Song early version

AGD said that Howie said just as much last year and it was pretty already known to be considered for the set. This is pretty much a reconfirmation or a repost just for the Twitter page.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 06, 2021, 03:50:37 PM
The Beach Boys legacy page is nice but needs to stop acting like its official


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 08, 2021, 02:13:45 AM
AGD has recently said that the DW/DD material is confirmed and will definitely be on the set. Hopefully he knows whereof he speaks, that is very exciting news. "I've Got a Friend" studio instrumental track at last, + other gems!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 08, 2021, 02:20:49 AM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 08, 2021, 02:24:17 AM
AGD has recently said that the DW/DD material is confirmed and will definitely be on the set. Hopefully he knows whereof he speaks, that is very exciting news. "I've Got a Friend" studio instrumental track at last, + other gems!


The live performances of that song are great and imo show the song being perfect for a Dennis, Carl and/or Blondie lead. It's funny how sometimes just a small part of a song gets stuck in your head. For me it is the "giggle when I'm feeling down" part of this song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Terry Trolley on May 08, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Howie commented on one of my facebook posts confirming the Dennis stuff will definitely be on the box

I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 08, 2021, 08:06:52 PM
Excellent


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 09, 2021, 06:20:42 AM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct

Oh, only quoted AGD in this case because it was the most recent confirmation that I had heard. Ordinarily Howie would be my go-to guy as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 09, 2021, 02:27:42 PM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct

O only quoted AGD in this case because it was the most recent confirmation that I had heard about it. Ordinarily Howie would also be my go-to guy.

Howie is da man when it comes to Feel Flows box set news.  ;D

Are we thinking that the version of I've Got A Friend is just the track, or that a vocal sync from a live recording has been done?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on May 09, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
I hope the short versions were made for inclusion on the vinyl version.
If they shortened some tracks for the box, that would be such a loss.
But it’s better to hear these songs even in truncated versions than not to hear them at all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 09, 2021, 05:12:11 PM
This could be the week we hear something 🙏


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 09, 2021, 10:33:45 PM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct

O only quoted AGD in this case because it was the most recent confirmation that I had heard about it. Ordinarily Howie would also be my go-to guy.

Howie is da man when it comes to Feel Flows box set news.  ;D

Are we thinking that the version of I've Got A Friend is just the track, or that a vocal sync from a live recording has been done?

I would think that flying in a lo-fi vocal from one of the live recordings would be quite a stretch, even a desecration of the pristine studio instr. track. Doubtful that any better res or studio vocal exists or we would have probably heard about it by now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 10, 2021, 02:17:15 AM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct

O only quoted AGD in this case because it was the most recent confirmation that I had heard about it. Ordinarily Howie would also be my go-to guy.

Howie is da man when it comes to Feel Flows box set news.  ;D

Are we thinking that the version of I've Got A Friend is just the track, or that a vocal sync from a live recording has been done?

I would think that flying in a lo-fi vocal from one of the live recordings would be quite a stretch.


Same here. If no studio vocal does exist then it will only be the backing track.
But I guess it is possible that a professional live recording is in the vaults and could be included (just a guess!).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on May 10, 2021, 04:35:58 AM
I put more stock in any information from Howie than anybody else. That said, I have a very strong hunch this information is indeed correct

O only quoted AGD in this case because it was the most recent confirmation that I had heard about it. Ordinarily Howie would also be my go-to guy.

Howie is da man when it comes to Feel Flows box set news.  ;D

Are we thinking that the version of I've Got A Friend is just the track, or that a vocal sync from a live recording has been done?

I would think that flying in a lo-fi vocal from one of the live recordings would be quite a stretch.


Same here. If no studio vocal does exist then it will only be the backing track.
But I guess it is possible that a professional live recording is in the vaults and could be included (just a guess!).

I'm just glad that the song is getting an official release! For years I've always wanted to know how it was going to sound & what the lyrics were (the bootlegs were pretty bad). ;)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on May 10, 2021, 07:02:04 AM
A pro recording would only exist in the RTL vaults in Luxembourg.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 11, 2021, 05:30:35 AM
A pro recording would only exist in the RTL vaults in Luxembourg.

And that might not even be multi-track.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on May 12, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Hilarious how calm we all are about the impending release of FF as opposed to the folks over yonder who are now salivating uncontrollably and getting worried about timing discrepancies...as Sly Stone once sang, que sera sera!  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 12, 2021, 11:50:07 AM
I've been waiting since November 2019. I'm personally burned out


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 12, 2021, 07:45:23 PM
I've been waiting since November 2019. I'm personally burned out
I can't say I'm excited about it, either. Can't say I believe it's gonna be released anytime soon, either.

It's right down there with the Get Back/Let it Be revision.

Either put the stuff out now, or stop talking about it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on May 13, 2021, 08:05:49 AM
The version of "I've Got A Friend" on FF is the track only.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 13, 2021, 10:14:13 AM
I've been waiting since November 2019. I'm personally burned out
I can't say I'm excited about it, either. Can't say I believe it's gonna be released anytime soon, either.

It's right down there with the Get Back/Let it Be revision.

Either put the stuff out now, or stop talking about it.

It's not that I'm not excited. I am just bored of speculating and waiting for an announcement which I'm sure a lot of others are too.

If the July release date is legit I guess we will be hearing something in the next few weeks. Let's see what happens.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 13, 2021, 12:38:30 PM
The version of "I've Got A Friend" on FF is the track only.


Thank you very much for that info, Howie, hello! I've seen a track list that lists it on the set at 2-odd minutes, but one member here says that the version he's heard was nearly 4 minutes long. Was it edited for the set (unfortunate) or is there some other explanation?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on May 13, 2021, 01:02:18 PM
The version of "I've Got A Friend" on FF is the track only.


Thank you very much for that info, Howie, hello! I've seen a track list that lists it on the set at 2-odd minutes, but one member here says that the version he's heard was nearly 4 minutes long. Was it edited for the set (unfortunate) or is there some other explanation?


I would assume edited for listenability, since the progression largely just repeats. It has to all get on a CD somehow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 13, 2021, 01:19:39 PM
The version of "I've Got A Friend" on FF is the track only.



Thank you, Howie!

I'm just listening to the live version ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RySyQx6hrwA ). Again, I think Blondie would lead himself very well to sing especially the second part of the song ("I've got a friend, that makes me giggle when I'm feeling down" etc.). The first part could be done by either one, Brian or Al. I guess they could still do this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on May 14, 2021, 01:14:32 PM
Hmm...amazing how most of us are so calm about the impending FF...!  :hat







Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on May 14, 2021, 02:25:14 PM
Hmm...amazing how most of us are so calm about the impending FF...!  :hat

Right? I'm just happy that it's coming out. I am surprised that there hasn't been much talk about it publicly - but I'm sure there are many reasons for that. One day we'll get a release date, pre-order, and a press release and this place will explode ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 14, 2021, 07:08:09 PM
I’m excited, but a combination of health issues (was in hospital for a week and just got out today) , focusing on my band, and doing a deep dive into Nirvana’s catalog, I’ve been a bit preoccupied. That said in a couple of mj the minds are going to be blown.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on May 15, 2021, 04:42:59 AM
Best time to drop any Beach Boys stuff is early summer, as it always has been. Hoping for news soon!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 16, 2021, 02:01:55 AM
Got to credit David Beard on the EH board.

https://esquarterly.com/2021/05/16/al-jardine-discusses-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-set-and-potentials-for-a-60th-anniversary/

Feel Flows box set

Al Jardine: Wait until you hear the live version of “Take A Load Off Your Feet”; it will blow your ‘sandals’ off! It is so damn good … I almost fainted when I heard it. I didn’t even remember performing it live. I think Mike Meros is on the keys … There’s an entire live performance section that will be on the Feel Flows set of that era’s songs from different performances of ours through the years. It’s beautifully done … absolute perfection. I’ve always hated the studio version of “Take A Load Off Your Feet,” but now I LOVE it because of this live version. Isn’t that funny? It’s what I call ‘playback/payback.’

There are a lot of great live tracks performed through the years from that era that are on the new Feel Flows release, and at least half the collection contains alternate takes. It’s all very fascinating and a lot of fun to listen to.

The Beach Boys 60th Anniversary

For the 60th anniversary, I’ve got a feeling we’ll do shows in several different locations. I’m not sure how many though. We will definitely do a show in Los Angeles … I think that’s on the horizon. I’m not sure, but I think it’s going to be more of a tribute show to The Beach Boys … performed by other acts. I think there’s also consideration of another album. I have a calypso/folk style song called “Islands In The Sun” that I think would fit nicely. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.

©2021 Endless Summer Quarterly/All Rights Reserved


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 16, 2021, 08:00:47 AM
Thanks for posting. Very interesting


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on May 16, 2021, 08:06:19 AM
This will be quite exciting! I can’t wait until July! :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on May 16, 2021, 11:06:18 AM
Got to credit David Beard on the EH board.

https://esquarterly.com/2021/05/16/al-jardine-discusses-the-beach-boys-feel-flows-set-and-potentials-for-a-60th-anniversary/

Feel Flows box set

Al Jardine: Wait until you hear the live version of “Take A Load Off Your Feet”; it will blow your ‘sandals’ off! It is so damn good … I almost fainted when I heard it. I didn’t even remember performing it live. I think Mike Meros is on the keys … There’s an entire live performance section that will be on the Feel Flows set of that era’s songs from different performances of ours through the years. It’s beautifully done … absolute perfection. I’ve always hated the studio version of “Take A Load Off Your Feet,” but now I LOVE it because of this live version. Isn’t that funny? It’s what I call ‘playback/payback.’

There are a lot of great live tracks performed through the years from that era that are on the new Feel Flows release, and at least half the collection contains alternate takes. It’s all very fascinating and a lot of fun to listen to.

The Beach Boys 60th Anniversary

For the 60th anniversary, I’ve got a feeling we’ll do shows in several different locations. I’m not sure how many though. We will definitely do a show in Los Angeles … I think that’s on the horizon. I’m not sure, but I think it’s going to be more of a tribute show to The Beach Boys … performed by other acts. I think there’s also consideration of another album. I have a calypso/folk style song called “Islands In The Sun” that I think would fit nicely. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.

©2021 Endless Summer Quarterly/All Rights Reserved



With Mike Meros on Keys, that would no doubt be from the 1993 'Box Set Tour' Paramount Show (quite possibly one of their best ever shows)
The only other time they did 'Feet' live (I believe) was 1971 and again for a few shows in 1975


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on May 16, 2021, 01:22:14 PM
imagine a nice clean live version of "looking at Tomorrow" like they did in 1983...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upfghY2KK3s


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 16, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
I remember Bruce saying years ago on the now ex Brit Board that he thought the 93 ‘unplugged’ (as he termed it) stuff should be released. Maybe we should thank him for this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on May 16, 2021, 01:25:59 PM
I am unironically looking forward to the live Disney Girls from 1982


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on May 16, 2021, 01:32:22 PM
I am unironically looking forward to the live Disney Girls from 1982

I saw (and heard, of course) them do this live that year - pretty good performance, IIRC. It's also around on several audience recordings from that summer.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 16, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
I came on this thread like 30 mins ago and like a billion people we're viewing it yet there's no news.

Thought we got a release date


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 17, 2021, 05:40:19 AM
I came on this thread like 30 mins ago and like a billion people we're viewing it yet there's no news.

Thought we got a release date

If it's allegedly coming out in July they better hurry up and give the thing an official announcement. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on May 17, 2021, 07:06:44 AM
Even though it has circulated in pristine quality for years now, the '93 Paramount stuff should get a release, and presenting some of the period-appropriate stuff on "Feel Flows" makes total sense.

The show is about as good as 90s BBs ever got. It's marred a bit by the early 90s cheap-sounding keyboards (no fault of the players; that was just the tech at the time, and nobody wanted to lug around a real piano at that stage I guess), as well as the unfortunate drumming. But the rest of the show, and the setlist, is so good that it overcomes all of that.

As for the Al interview blurb, it's classic Al. Who wants to take bets any new album will for sure *not* include the song he's mentioning (isn't that another title that's been floating around for years if not decades?), and that his idea for 60th projects will end up *not* being what actually happens? Poor Al. I've heard the tentative title for the new Beach Boys album is "Waves of Love 3.0"....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on May 17, 2021, 09:47:02 AM
Hey Jude, totally agree about Paramount '93. I have a booted version from Pa. and that was a great unplugged set list. Have heard the Paramount shows on You Tube, and the vocals, particularly Al's and Carl's, are spot on...their best concerts of the 90s or 80s for that matter. Never to be able to be duplicated again either with Carl gone, so that should finally be offically released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 17, 2021, 10:54:47 AM
A couple of songs from the "Unplugged"-show were released on MIC and the Pet Sounds 40th anniversary set IIRC.

The show is great for the rare songs of course. And the Boys still had a great harmony sound (in no small thanks to Matt Jardine). But over the years I grew less interested in this show. I like the radio broadcasted '93 show in St. Goarshausen, Germany better for example although it doesn't have the rarities. It may be because of the better (imo) mix and the energy, I don't know. Maybe it's also because imo the hype about the Paramount show is too much, as the rarities are not so big in number, it's basically just eight songs. Again, not saying the performances were bad. But it's just not enough imo.
Plus, as someone already said, the cheesy keyboard sounds certainly didn't age well. Unfortunately the use of mostly accoustic instead of electric guitars actually emphasizes the keyboards on the rare songs. The right time for a live album of this material has long since passed. Shortly after Carl's death (let's say around 2000) was probably the last time this would've made sense.
But yeah, to release just a couple of songs as part of a boxset is probably the best way to get this stuff out. Carl's "Caroline, no" is breathtaking, and if "Take a load off your feet" (and possibly "Add some Music ...") will be on "Feel flows" then I'm fine with that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on May 17, 2021, 12:16:04 PM
There are a couple of Paramount tracks on the box. While we were working on it, Al was extremely impressed with the keys of FEET and was very happy to know that it was Meros.

He really wanted him to get the proper acknowledgement for services rendered. He never remembered hearing anything other than the Red Barn rehearsals of this material -- he was floored that it had been recorded on multis.

Get psyched everybody -- I promise, good things are on the horizon.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 17, 2021, 12:42:49 PM
There are a couple of Paramount tracks on the box. While we were working on it, Al was extremely impressed with the keys of FEET and was very happy to know that it was Meros.

He really wanted him to get the proper acknowledgement for services rendered. He never remembered hearing anything other than the Red Barn rehearsals of this material -- he was floored that it had been recorded on multis.

Get psyched everybody -- I promise, good things are on the horizon.

Yay, awesome - thanks again Howie!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 17, 2021, 02:23:13 PM
There are a couple of Paramount tracks on the box. While we were working on it, Al was extremely impressed with the keys of FEET and was very happy to know that it was Meros.

He really wanted him to get the proper acknowledgement for services rendered. He never remembered hearing anything other than the Red Barn rehearsals of this material -- he was floored that it had been recorded on multis.

Get psyched everybody -- I promise, good things are on the horizon.

As usual, thanks Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 17, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
"On the horizon" doesn't sound like this week 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on May 17, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
But your grandkids will be able to celebrate the opening week in 2070.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: aingevt on May 18, 2021, 06:05:39 AM
A note from Howie always gets me hyped! I won't allow myself to get too hyped cause the waiting would make me lose it!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 19, 2021, 06:23:28 PM
Same here!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 19, 2021, 09:37:35 PM
Assuming our info is correct - 64 days to go - that's less than 10 weeks - so an announcement can't be too far away.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sangheon on May 20, 2021, 12:01:33 AM
"On the horizon" doesn't sound like this week 😂

It's the place we can't go near... ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 20, 2021, 12:25:21 AM
"On the horizon" doesn't sound like this week 😂

It's the place we can't go near... ;D

That reminds me of "Dune" (the water of life can only be drunk by men, it's a place where women can't go.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 20, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Assuming our info is correct - 64 days to go - that's less than 10 weeks - so an announcement can't be too far away.

It's ridiculous not to have an announcement yet


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on May 20, 2021, 11:36:46 AM
Assuming our info is correct - 64 days to go - that's less than 10 weeks - so an announcement can't be too far away.

It's ridiculous not to have an announcement yet

Maybe it was postponed to September.
But I still think it will be announced tomorrow or at least next week.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 20, 2021, 12:38:05 PM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on May 20, 2021, 01:11:22 PM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 20, 2021, 01:31:48 PM
The reality is, if this thing is coming out in July and they do in fact wait till the very last minute to announce it, make pre orders available and promote it then that is their own loss because it will impact the sales.

If we don't hear anything by the 24th of this month then they dropped the ball


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 20, 2021, 02:03:18 PM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

I can say with certainty (and I still have the magazine) that an announcement of *both* a Pet Sounds and Smile "sessions" boxsets was published in late 1994 or 95. As the next few years went by, the Smile set fell off the music press radar entirely, but the talk of the PS set was seen in magazines and fanzines (as HeyJude said) and whatever early versions of dial-up internet mailing lists were happening. And it also felt like they kept delaying and delaying its release, but no reasons were given at least in the articles I remember reading. Then when it was on the cusp of release, and it felt like this was finally happening, it got delayed again. And later, word leaked out that a copy of the booklet notes and essays was either accidentally or deliberately sent to Mike Love, and he vetoed it based on the content and tone of those essays. So he wrote an essay too, and that's what was included in the package. And then it came out, and I remember buying it.

So anyone can decide if that's what happened, and if Mike's objections did scupper the release for a bit, but that was the scuttlebutt going around. I doubt anyone would confirm that now, or maybe they would...



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 20, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
I remember that scuttlebutt, and I'd say it was probably accurate in my estimation.

But now I pray to a new god, this one's called Iconic Artists Group!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 20, 2021, 11:47:17 PM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

Wow, I learn something new every day on this board that I didn't know before. Had no idea the stereo remix had leaked a full year before its official release! That had to have both been awesome as well as anticlimactic for the actual release, all things considered. Yet I'm sure minds were still massively blown by all the other bonus tracks that hadn't leaked.

Seeing as the PSS was "pulled from release very late in the game", were booklets ever printed and discarded that didn't pass Mike's barometer? Or maybe the kibosh was put just before anything hit the printing press? Almost makes it seem like it could've been another situation with the SMiLE LP covers that were junked.

Which spins off another question - I wonder what the furthest (other than SMiLE and PSS) that any release has gotten to coming out by this band, before getting killed and junked. I guess Sweet Insanity is another. Although I'm talking about something where something was printed in anticipation of release, but then changed at the last minute.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2021, 04:37:12 AM
Then when it was on the cusp of release, and it felt like this was finally happening, it got delayed again. And later, word leaked out that a copy of the booklet notes and essays was either accidentally or deliberately sent to Mike Love, and he vetoed it based on the content and tone of those essays. So he wrote an essay too, and that's what was included in the package.


Wouldn't he have access to the whole thing anyway? I'd think that it couldn't be released without each member giving his ok.
The release of the Pet Sounds Sessions and the non-release of the 90s Smile set, as well as - if I'm not mistaken - the Beach Boys rejecting the Grammy for Pet Sounds as "Album of the Century" in '99/'00 are still mysteries to me. Especially the latter sounds like the dumbest idea anyone could ever have. Why did they do that?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2021, 06:41:30 AM
The band members would have had to sign off on all aspects of the PS box. I don't remember hearing that Mike like *accidentally* got access to the liner notes; I think he and all band members were presented with the set at some point.

I recall a story of Carl (and presumably the other band members) being presented with the set (at least, the audio contents) while out on tour. My impression all those years ago was that the set had been compiled with little or no involvement of band members outside of Brian, and I'm not sure how much knowledge they had of the set in the early stages. But it also wasn't a case of hiding anything from them, as they had to sign off on the thing. As I've previously mentioned, perhaps in another thread, I recall hearing that Carl initially had some concerns/objections about aspects of the stereo remix, specifically the noticeable and unavoidable differences (all those missing vocals and other bits in the mono mix done during mixdown that aren't on the multitracks). At some point, if he didn't already know the reasons for those differences, he was informed, and obviously at some point he signed off on it.

I got the impression from one insider back in the late 90s that the band generally was a bit circumspect regarding the set, perhaps in part because so much about it was so Brian-centric. The presentation was Brian-centric, and the compilation process of the set was too. But obviously, these things were unavoidable. The album is very much a Brian deal, and it's not like they had the time or interest while touring all year to sit in the studio to oversee a boxed set.

You also have to remember that some of the band members were wary of David Leaf going all the way back to the 80s when Leaf released his book. Leaf's approach to writing about the band was not exactly always extra sympathetic to the other band members. So when Leaf's liners on the PS set were unavoidable also very Brian-centric, it's not surprising it might have put some band members off. As I've mentioned before, note that while the PS set came out, Leaf never again wrote liner notes for a BRI-sanctioned Beach Boys release.

I think even by 1996, there was still residual distrust or wariness from the band regarding Brian in relation to the Landy stuff and specifically the "autobiography" from 1991. I think that's one of the reasons that for several years *after* being extracted from Landy, Brian still didn't do any live shows with the Beach Boys.

As for "Feel Flows", I would advise folks to continue to stay pumped and excited. I'm hearing all good things.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2021, 08:50:26 AM
I remember reading the blurb about Mike getting sent the notes and essays "accidentally" in a magazine somewhere back in the day...no clue what it was and it could have been the author's own take on it. But yes, it did come out later that the essays originally in the package were the reason Mike objected and the reason he got an essay in the set. Draw your own conclusions.

As far as the set being too "Brian-centric" in the eyes of some band members...well, that's just plain ridiculous for obvious reasons. I'll leave it at that.  ;D

Funny how things work...That video of Brian playing the Topanga gig from '96 which surfaced this month has a piece of the PS Sessions timeline history included there too. If you click on this link to that June 8th '96 video, you'll hear them talking about the PS box being delayed, and a possible Fall '96 release date in the works. That of course didn't happen either...it was Fall '97, November '97 to be exact, when that came out as we know. I also remember it well because I had just moved back to Boston to play in a band, and was living in Cambridge while the Louise Woodward trial was in full force there. And I bought the PS box the day it came out that November. Still one of the best box sets ever released, hands down.

So yes, the delays we were describing earlier in this thread were being reported and followed by fans and the music community at the time, and just when we all thought it was coming out, it would get delayed again as this concert video also shows. Check out the video, at 9 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/1ITOSw-PzPA?t=537 (https://youtu.be/1ITOSw-PzPA?t=537)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on May 21, 2021, 05:11:12 PM
 I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison. 

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on May 22, 2021, 12:41:33 AM
I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison. 

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.

I had the opposite experience with the '93 set. Nowhere had it on release day, except a tiny little independent shop about 10 miles from me who had only one or two copies if I remember correctly.

I only found this shop by the good old Yellow Pages. Does it make my story even more antiquated to note that the phone I was using to ring round on probably had a rotary dial?

I didn't drive them, so this was a bus journey. The anticipation on the way there doubled on the journey back as I read the track listing and liner notes. Then a wonderful afternoon  spent listening to this very best of boxed sets. Brilliantly compiled, beautifully mastered and presented, the previously unreleased material sparkled like generously sprinkled gems amongst the more familiar material. Each CD had it's own mood, and told it's own story like four separate concept albums. This set was the soundtrack of that summer.

I was 21 but the memory of this day is so clear. My then girlfriend wasn't happy as I spent a sizable chunk of our holiday (vacation) money on the set. She soon changed her tune when we reached the Smile stuff! Happy happy times.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on May 22, 2021, 08:30:16 AM
I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison.  

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.

I had the opposite experience with the '93 set. Nowhere had it on release day, except a tiny little independent shop about 10 miles from me who had only one or two copies if I remember correctly.

I only found this shop by the good old Yellow Pages. Does it make my story even more antiquated to note that the phone I was using to ring round on probably had a rotary dial?

I didn't drive them, so this was a bus journey. The anticipation on the way there doubled on the journey back as I read the track listing and liner notes. Then a wonderful afternoon  spent listening to this very best of boxed sets. Brilliantly compiled, beautifully mastered and presented, the previously unreleased material sparkled like generously sprinkled gems amongst the more familiar material. Each CD had it's own mood, and told it's own story like four separate concept albums. This set was the soundtrack of that summer.

I was 21 but the memory of this day is so clear. My then girlfriend wasn't happy as I spent a sizable chunk of our holiday (vacation) money on the set. She soon changed her tune when we reached the Smile stuff! Happy happy times.

Ah, rotary phones... my late grandma hung to hers until like '98, I think.   We're the same age, but In '93, I couldn't afford the GV: 30 years box.  In school with no job, I literally did not have $70 to spare.   I had read the reviews and knew about the Smile-track centerpiece, and I was intrigued... but broke. I may have told this story on here before but in a bizarre turn of BB fan karma, approximately 8 or 9 months after that box dropped, I was browsing the "Used CD" section of The Wherehouse, and lo and behold there was a stray Disc 2 (the one with the Pet Sounds/Smile era) priced at the princely sum of $4.  I couldn't believe my good fortune.  To this day, I wonder how that happened.  Who "parts out" a boxed set?  And if you're going to jettison some of your discs from that set, who ditches Disc 2?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on May 22, 2021, 01:31:36 PM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

Wow, I learn something new every day on this board that I didn't know before. Had no idea the stereo remix had leaked a full year before its official release! That had to have both been awesome as well as anticlimactic for the actual release, all things considered. Yet I'm sure minds were still massively blown by all the other bonus tracks that hadn't leaked.

Seeing as the PSS was "pulled from release very late in the game", were booklets ever printed and discarded that didn't pass Mike's barometer? Or maybe the kibosh was put just before anything hit the printing press? Almost makes it seem like it could've been another situation with the SMiLE LP covers that were junked.

Which spins off another question - I wonder what the furthest (other than SMiLE and PSS) that any release has gotten to coming out by this band, before getting killed and junked. I guess Sweet Insanity is another. Although I'm talking about something where something was printed in anticipation of release, but then changed at the last minute.

I paid good money for a silver-pressed CD boot of that sampler stereo mix in early 1997!

And yes, it was known and discussed at the time that Mike had held up the release. Folks posted about it at length.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on May 22, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
Yep, I ordered the boot sampler because of the delay, I couldn’t wait to hear the stereo mix. I remember the day it arrived vividly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 23, 2021, 01:48:48 PM
Was PSS the last Beach Boys package to be released while Carl was alive?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on May 23, 2021, 05:30:40 PM
I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 24, 2021, 03:56:53 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 24, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!

Alan Boyd was really a miracle worker on that doc and its soundtrack. David Leaf recommended him for the Delilah Films Endless Harmony project and he took the ball and ran with it, getting tons of rare unreleased material, including SOMS, in the film and on the soundtrack. Then there was the groundbreaking "Hawthorner, CA" double set and it was off to the races for him, a dream come true.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 24, 2021, 03:59:12 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 24, 2021, 07:20:57 PM
 ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 24, 2021, 07:32:53 PM
Guys... seriously..

We still haven't heard anything?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 24, 2021, 07:35:58 PM
Would it kill them to formally acknowledge it's existence.. allow us to pre-order.. stuff like that?

They can do the artwork and track lists later if they aren't ready.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 25, 2021, 02:58:53 AM
I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!

Alan Boyd was really a miracle worker on that doc and its soundtrack. David Leaf recommended him for the Delilah Films Endless Harmony project and he took the ball and ran with it, getting tons of rare unreleased material, including SOMS, in the film and on the soundtrack. Then there was the groundbreaking "Hawthorner, CA" double set and it was off to the races for him, a dream come true.



Yes, great soundtrack. Still regularly in my player!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on May 25, 2021, 06:21:00 AM
Would it kill them to formally acknowledge it's existence.. allow us to pre-order.. stuff like that?

They can do the artwork and track lists later if they aren't ready.

This thing isn't going to sell out or something; does anybody really need to pre-order it with extra lead time? It'll be announced with a sufficient gap between announcement and release date. Everyone will have plenty of time to pre-order, plan accordingly, etc.

And the set's existence has been acknowledged by those working on it, and numerous band members. Beyond that, what could possibly come *prior* to an announcement? Does anybody really need Iconic/BRI to announce that an announcement is forthcoming? That's essentially what this thread is.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on May 25, 2021, 07:01:49 AM
Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.


I actually owned that sampler after finding it in a record shop while visiting Ohio.  Owned the stereo mix well before the box set came out.  I remember trying to convince folks on the AOL BB message forum that I had it and no one believed me at the time.  🤷‍♂️


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on May 25, 2021, 08:42:07 AM
The Almost Famous box set was announced last week for an early July release. Following that logic, we ought to be hearing about FF in a couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: onkster on May 25, 2021, 11:18:09 AM
Quote
You also have to remember that some of the band members were wary of David Leaf going all the way back to the 80s when Leaf released his book. Leaf's approach to writing about the band was not exactly always extra sympathetic to the other band members. So when Leaf's liners on the PS set were unavoidable also very Brian-centric, it's not surprising it might have put some band members off. As I've mentioned before, note that while the PS set came out, Leaf never again wrote liner notes for a BRI-sanctioned Beach Boys release.

Hmmm, Has there ever been such a thing as “bootleg liner notes”?

As in, did Leaf’s Liner notes ever leak out to the underground? I would love to read them!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on May 25, 2021, 07:24:25 PM
Quote
You also have to remember that some of the band members were wary of David Leaf going all the way back to the 80s when Leaf released his book. Leaf's approach to writing about the band was not exactly always extra sympathetic to the other band members. So when Leaf's liners on the PS set were unavoidable also very Brian-centric, it's not surprising it might have put some band members off. As I've mentioned before, note that while the PS set came out, Leaf never again wrote liner notes for a BRI-sanctioned Beach Boys release.

Hmmm, Has there ever been such a thing as “bootleg liner notes”?

As in, did Leaf’s Liner notes ever leak out to the underground? I would love to read them!

They're the notes in the box. IIRC, after various parties vented a bit, they compromised by adding Mike's introduction. Nothing else was changed, and David's notes were used.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 25, 2021, 08:09:55 PM
I've never understood this whole phenomenon of pre-ordering. Is there some reason that's better than just trotting down to the record store on release day? Is there some danger all the copies will sell out the first day?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on May 25, 2021, 10:52:58 PM
Not every store in the world will order every release, especially box sets.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on May 26, 2021, 02:02:15 AM
It's also a psychological thing. Pre-ordering gives me a sense of agency. When you've waited nigh on two years for something, pre ordering gives one a feeling akin to walking in the shop and purchasing it.

Like a lot of others, I've experienced some pretty horrific family traumas related to the pandemic. Pre ordering that box is going to put a smile on my face, however briefly. Chase those good feelings when you can.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on May 26, 2021, 04:27:37 AM
I like to pre-order from Amazon because I can pay off the order before it ships, instead of having it charge to my card at an inconvenient time. Kind of like layaway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on May 26, 2021, 07:07:24 AM
I've never understood this whole phenomenon of pre-ordering. Is there some reason that's better than just trotting down to the record store on release day? Is there some danger all the copies will sell out the first day?

Pre-ordering online is a necessity for most if they want it on release date. There is no record store to trot down to anymore for many if not most folks. They don't exist anymore for many folks, unless they want to drive long distances to the few indies that survive. Big box retailers aren't going to carry most stuff.

What I don't understand is the need to pre-order things *far* in advance. Other than locking in a good price if it goes up initially for pre-orders at a low price, there's no need to pre-order things *months* in advance rather than days or a few weeks.

Or rather, a better way to put it is, pre-ordering once it's available to pre-order makes sense. What we don't *need* is for something to be *made available* for pre-orders months and months in advance. In other words, this process is, should be, and will be easy: Whenever it's available for pre-order, have at it and pre-order. I just don't need to do so faster than whenever the label and retailers make it available.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: scottythered on May 26, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Is there some reason that's better than just trotting down to the record store on release day? Is there some danger all the copies will sell out the first day?

As stated above, this also implies that you actually have a local physical record store. The closest one to me that might actually carry it is 40+ miles away.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 26, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
You also get to get an idea of the popularity of the product from pre-orders. The actual item being in the top 100 on amazon is promotion in its self.

The price guarantee is great for us.

There is a lot of benefits to getting the word out as soon as possible.

But that's just me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 26, 2021, 10:45:46 AM
I've never understood this whole phenomenon of pre-ordering. Is there some reason that's better than just trotting down to the record store on release day? Is there some danger all the copies will sell out the first day?

Pre-ordering online is a necessity for most if they want it on release date. There is no record store to trot down to anymore for many if not most folks. They don't exist anymore for many folks, unless they want to drive long distances to the few indies that survive. Big box retailers aren't going to carry most stuff.

What I don't understand is the need to pre-order things *far* in advance. Other than locking in a good price if it goes up initially for pre-orders at a low price, there's no need to pre-order things *months* in advance rather than days or a few weeks.

Or rather, a better way to put it is, pre-ordering once it's available to pre-order makes sense. What we don't *need* is for something to be *made available* for pre-orders months and months in advance. In other words, this process is, should be, and will be easy: Whenever it's available for pre-order, have at it and pre-order. I just don't need to do so faster than whenever the label and retailers make it available.

I guess some of it may be that some items (unlike FF, presumably?) are made in limited quantities, and it may just be a generalized overreaction to want to make sure the item they want doesn't sell out in advance. Sometimes it's not an overreaction: while it's not an online pre-order thing, I guess Record Store Day in-store items are like that, where it's imperative to get a copy as quickly as possible, but as far as online ordering goes, I'm sure that there are plenty of super limited edition physical album/box releases by any number of artists (not pertaining to Record Store Day, but actual releases that are sold online) that get snapped up by pre-orders long before the release date, and become unobtanium shortly thereafter, unless people pay jacked up prices.

Again, this is presumably irrelevant to FF, but that mindset may be just burned into people's mindsets as a knee-jerk thing across the board nowadays, since physical releases are becoming less common in general, and often are done in smaller production runs. I guess some people who are huge fans just want to have it ordered as soon as humanly possible, and not have to think/worry about whether or not it'll sell out, be difficult to purchase, etc down the road.

Personally I'm not worried about pre-ordering way in advance, because despite that I'm a BBs superfan and CANNOT WAIT to hear FF, I have no reason to think the box will be difficult to obtain if not pre-ordered well in advance. But I'll definitely pre-order it whenever it goes onsale!

I do wonder how many copies will be manufactured of FF. I would imagine that if demand were to exceed the expected supply, that more copies would be subsequently manufactured to meet demand. If Rolling Stone and all of the old guard magazines/publications go batshit crazy about how awesome FF is, and the promotion is done really well, plus great buzz/word of mouth through fans, I have an optimistic hunch that FF will actually exceed sales expectations, and maybe they'll have to make a 2nd or 3rd pressing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on May 26, 2021, 02:22:22 PM
I've never understood this whole phenomenon of pre-ordering. Is there some reason that's better than just trotting down to the record store on release day? Is there some danger all the copies will sell out the first day?

The "trotting" part, I reckon. :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on May 26, 2021, 02:31:28 PM
I've been working with the great Justin Kreutzmann on some beautiful promo clips for the set.
It's gaining speed, people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on May 26, 2021, 02:46:03 PM
We appreciate your encouraging updates, Howie! "Your doctor knows it keeps us calm..."  :smokin


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on May 26, 2021, 03:11:27 PM
Pre-ordering online is a necessity for most if they want it on release date. There is no record store to trot down to anymore for many if not most folks. They don't exist anymore for many folks, unless they want to drive long distances to the few indies that survive. Big box retailers aren't going to carry most stuff.

What I don't understand is the need to pre-order things *far* in advance. Other than locking in a good price if it goes up initially for pre-orders at a low price, there's no need to pre-order things *months* in advance rather than days or a few weeks.

Yeah, I live quite a distance from a record store that I'm not even sure exists anymore. I'm so busy these days that even a 40 minute trip into town takes a good chunk out of my free time. Pre-ordering and having it shipped to my house is very convenient...although, the Made in California set was 3 days late in getting to my house - that was a very long 3 days.

I remember getting The Smile Sessions for a lower price by pre-ordering months in advance...but looking back at the order, I paid $110 for it, not sure if the price went up from that closer to release day or not.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on May 26, 2021, 05:07:10 PM
I don't know whether I'll pre-order from Amazon.  I did for TSS and MIC, but I'll need to know more about FF before ordering.
Personally, I'd love to return to the aforementioned days when I walked into Borders on release day and picked up a Pet Soudns box from the stack of 20 that they had.  I personally frequent some good, large independent record stores, but how confident am I that, in 2021, I'll be able to walk into one of those stores on release day and buy a Feel Flows box?  Frankly, not confident at all.   It's such a different retail environment compared to 25+ years ago. At this point, (1) who knows if who'll even be carrying the item?  And (2) even if they do carry it, in what quantity?    There's a mentality now, especially with respect to high-end archival box sets, that more or less everyone who wants the thing is going to buy it on Amazon so even good retailers aren't going to take on big quantities


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on May 27, 2021, 02:01:45 AM
I've been working with the great Justin Kreutzmann on some beautiful promo clips for the set.
It's gaining speed, people.


That's great! I'm glad that your working to promote this kind of stuff. IIRC you mentioned a couple of years back how much more could be done to promote things like "Made in California" etc. I totally agree with that and it's good that you now have the chance to influence this to some degree. I'm looking forward to the clips!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on May 31, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
I know I am annoying everyone

But it has to be this week we hear something   ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 02, 2021, 03:38:02 AM
Hey all.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B095LF5R5N/ref=tmm_acd_title_20?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1622628282&sr=1-3


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 04:10:59 AM
Good catch. You have to scroll down to the product description, but yep, that's it!

Only the two disk LP version listed so far, (clicking on the boxed set lead to Billy Eyelash, no thanks). A price of £19.81

Page 133 of the thread, it begins........

Official title

Feel Flows: The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions 1969-1971

 :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 04:32:49 AM
Billie Elish  :lol

This is great news. Hopefully the errors will be fixed by today or tomorrow


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 06:29:32 AM
DISC ONE
SUNFLOWER Original Album
1. Slip On Through (2019 master) (2:19)
2. This Whole World (2019 master) (1:58)
3. Add Some Music To Your Day (2019 master) (3:36)
4. Got To Know The Woman (2019 master) (2:43)
5. Deirdre (2019 master) (3:30)
6. It’s About Time (2019 master) (2:57)
7. Tears In The Morning (2019 master) (4:07)
8. All I Wanna Do (2019 master) (2:36)
9. Forever (2019 master) (2:42)
10. Our Sweet Love (2019 master) (2:41)
11. At My Window (2019 master) (2:32)
12. Cool, Cool Water (2019 master) (5:03)
13. Sunflower Promo 1 (previously unreleased) (0:59)
SUNFLOWER Live
Previously Unreleased – Produced by The Beach Boys
14. This Whole World (Live 1988) (2:10)
15. Add Some Music To Your Day (Live 1993) (3:23)
16. Susie Cincinnati (Live 1976) (2:46)
17. Back Home (Live 1976) (3:15)
18. It’s About Time (Live 1971) (3:45)
19. Riot In Cell Block 9 (Live 1970) (3:34)
SUNFLOWER Bonus Tracks
20. Break Away (original 1969 single mix) (2:55)
21. Celebrate The News (previously unreleased 2020 mix) (2:37)
22. Loop De Loop (previously unreleased 1969 mix) (2:59)
23. San Miguel (previously unreleased 2020 mix) (2:33)
24. Susie Cincinnati (previously unreleased 2020 mix) (3:02)
25. Good Time (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:56)
26. Two Can Play (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:06)
27. Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (2021 stereo mix – previously unreleased) (3:21)

DISC TWO
SURF’S UP Original Album
1. Don’t Go Near The Water (2019 master) (2:41)
2. Long Promised Road (2019 master) (3:32)
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet (2019 master) (2:32)
4. Disney Girls (1957) (2019 master) (4:08)
5. Student Demonstration Time (2019 master) (3:59)
6. Feel Flows (2019 master) (4:44)
7. Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) (2019 master) (1:57)
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (2019 master) (3:09)
9. Til I Die (2019 master) (2:32)
10. Surf’s Up (2019 master) (4:14)
11. Surf’s Up Promo (previously unreleased) (1:02)
SURF’S UP Live
Previously Unreleased – Produced by The Beach Boys
12. Take A Load Off Your Feet (Live 1993) (2:35)
13. Long Promised Road (Live 1972) (4:14)
14. Disney Girls (Live 1982) (4:23)
15. Surf’s Up (Live 1973) (4:58)
16. Student Demonstration Time (Live 1971) (4:42)
Surf’s Up Bonus Tracks
17. Big Sur (previously unreleased) (2:35)
18. H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:31)
19. Sweet And Bitter (previously unreleased) (2:33)
20. My Solution (previously unreleased) (3:44)
21. 4th of July (2019 mix – previously unreleased) (3:11)
22. Sound of Free (1970 single mix, 2019 master) (2:22)
23. Lady (Fallin’ In Love) (1970 stereo mix – previously unreleased) (2:21)
24. Seasons In The Sun (previously unreleased) (3:27)

DISC THREE
SUNFLOWER SESSIONS
1. Sunflower Promo 2 (previously unreleased) (0:59)
2. Slip On Through (track and backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:47)
3. This Whole World (long version track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:10)
4. Add Some Music To Your Day (track and backing vocals – previously unreleased) (4:35)
5. Deirdre (track – previously unreleased) (3:34)
6. It’s About Time (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:53)
7. Tears In The Morning (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (4:08)
8. All I Wanna Do (session intro, track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:46)
9. Forever (session highlights – previously unreleased) (3:36)
10. Forever (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:01)
11. Our Sweet Love (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:39)
12. At My Window (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:50)
13. Cool Cool Water (alternate 2019 mix – previously unreleased) (6:24)
14. San Miguel (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:57)
15. Loop De Loop (track – previously unreleased) (2:49)
16. Good Time (session intro, track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (4:27)
17. When Girls Get Together (track – previously unreleased) (1:47)
18. Slip On Through (alternate 1969 mix with session intro – previously unreleased) (3:25)
19. Our Sweet Love (string section – previously unreleased) (1:00)
1969-1970 a Cappella
20. San Miguel (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (1:00)
21. Break Away (Tag) (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:18)
22. Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song) (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (2:44)
23. Good Time (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:19)
24. This Whole World (backing vocals section – previously unreleased) (1:05)
25. Add Some Music To Your Day (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (3:30)
26. Got To Know The Woman (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (2:52)
27. It’s About Time (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:50)
28. All I Wanna Do (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (2:58)
29. Forever (previously unreleased 2019 a Cappella mix) (2:52)

DISC FOUR
SURF’S UP SESSIONS
1. Don’t Go Near The Water (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:45)
2. Long Promised Road (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:38)
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet (alternate vocal – previously unreleased) (2:28)
4. Disney Girls (1957) (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (4:17)
5. Student Demonstration Time (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:46)
6. Feel Flows (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (5:02)
7. Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) (session intro and alternate mix – previously unreleased) (2:43)
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (2:55)
9. Til I Die (long version with alternate lyrics – previously unreleased) (4:47)
(Brian Wilson)
10. Surf’s Up (2019 mix – previously unreleased) (4:08)
(Brian Wilson-Van Dyke Parks)
11. (Wouldn’t It Be Nice To) Live Again (extended 2019 – previously unreleased) (6:50)
(Dennis Wilson-Stanley Shapiro)
Surf’s Up a Cappella
12. Don’t Go Near The Water (previously unreleased 2020 a Cappella mix) (2:36)
(Alan Jardine-Mike Love)
13. Long Promised Road (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (4:00)
14. Feel Flows (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:33)
15. Disney Girls (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:36)
16. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (backing vocals excerpt – previously unreleased) (0:32)
17. Til I Die (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (2:36)
18. Surf’s Up (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (4:04)
Bonus Tracks
19. I Just Got My Pay (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:43)
20. Walkin’ (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:44)
21. When Girls Get Together (previously unreleased 2020 mix) (3:45)
22. Baby Baby (previously unreleased) (3:13)
23. Awake (previously unreleased) (3:44)
24. It’s A New Day (previously unreleased) (2:20)

DISC FIVE
Bonus Disc
1. This Whole World (alternate ending – previously unreleased) (1:41)
2. Add Some Music To Your Day (previously unreleased alternate version) (3:27)
3. Don’t Go Near The Water (alternate version – previously unreleased) (2:42)
4. Surf’s Up Part 1 (1971 remake track with 1966 Brian vocal – previously unreleased) (1:41)
5. Soulful Old Man Sunshine (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (3:14)
(Brian Wilson-Rick Henn-Don Ralke)
6. I’m Goin’ Your Way (previously unreleased alternate mix) (2:24)
(Dennis Wilson)
7. Where Is She (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:22)
(Brian Wilson)
8. Carnival (Over The Waves/Sobra Las Olas) (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (1:34)
9. It’s Natural (previously unreleased) (2:35)
10. Medley: All Of My Love / Ecology (previously unreleased) (5:05)
11. Before (previously unreleased) (2:25)
12. Behold The Night (previously unreleased) (2:26)
13. Old Movie (Cuddle Up) (previously unreleased) (3:37)
14. Hawaiian Dream (previously unreleased) (4:33)
15. Settle Down / Sound Of Free (basic session outtake – previously unreleased) (2:17)
16. I’ve Got A Friend (previously unreleased) (2:26)
17. Til I Die (piano demo – previously unreleased) (1:55)
18. Back Home (previously unreleased demo) (2:20)
19. Back Home (alternate version – previously unreleased) (2:34)
20. Won’t You Tell Me (demo – previously unreleased) (2:01)
21. Won’t You Tell Me (previously unreleased 2019 mix) (2:54)
22. Barbara (previously unreleased 2020 mix) (2:59)
23. Slip On Through (early version track) (2:48)
24. Susie Cincinnati (basic session highlights – previously unreleased) (3:05)
25. My Solution (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:04)
26. You Never Give Me Your Money (previously unreleased) (0:40)
27. Medley: Happy Birthday, Brian / God Only Knows (previously unreleased) (2:47)
28. You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone (track & backing vocals – previously unreleased) (3:32)
29. Marcella (a Cappella – previously unreleased) (3:27)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on June 02, 2021, 06:53:28 AM
whoa mama!

EDIT: packaging images from SHF

https://www.platomania.nl/search/results/?q=feel+flows&format=

(https://i.postimg.cc/13Q0VnyG/ff2cd.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8ymm1Nw/ff2vinyl.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4pMSBFt/ff4vinyl.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bvh2zmHp/ffbox.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on June 02, 2021, 07:00:00 AM
 :happydance  :woot  :thewilsons

"This Whole World" live!! (Actually I'm very happy about the whole package.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 07:37:44 AM
Wow, where to start?

The cover art is very reminiscent of the Friends artwork, also Endless Summer. I like it. Very of the era. It almost looks like an alternate cover for Sunflower. I like how it showcases all the band members and underlines how this was a group effort. I notice Mike's picture is the biggest. Maybe we've uncovered the reason for the delay ;D

The booklet looks nice and thick. I'm hoping there is a lot of sessionography and recording tech porn.

As for the track listing, how exciting. I need to go back over this in detail, but my eye is initially drawn to disk 5. All those Dennis songs!

It states for disk 1 and 2 that these are 2019 masters. Are we to then expect a remaster of the original albums rather than remixes?. I'm presuming there is a contunation of the practice started with the Wild Honey collection as listing new mixes as previously unreleased

It looks like we're getting all the things we hoped for, such as the Dennis material, extended Till I Die with alternate lyrics and a clean My Solution. I know we heard the latter on the snippets release, but it's good to know for sure.

Some tracks I've never heard of, namely:-

Baby, Baby
Before
Behold
Hawaiian Dream

Mark, Alan, Howie. Thank you. It looks like you've done us proud again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 07:38:31 AM
nothing like a full tracklisting and artwork reveal to totally kill this thread.

is everybody sleeping at the same time?

this is what we've been constantly refreshing for!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on June 02, 2021, 07:39:03 AM
Great artwork, very reflective of the budget. Is that Mama Cass on guitar?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on June 02, 2021, 07:41:55 AM
Where can I throw my cash?  :o :o :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 07:45:58 AM
I'm thinking I'm going to treat myself to the boxed set and the LP set.

Amazon behind the curve as usual.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: NateRuvin on June 02, 2021, 07:47:53 AM
YES! The moment  is finally here. Thanks so much to Howie, Mark, Alan, and all the talented contributors to this set. I can't wait!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 07:50:30 AM
I know I am annoying everyone

But it has to be this week we hear something   ;D

All hail the prophet Shady


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 02, 2021, 08:02:17 AM
Gonna blow some minds, I'm sure! Wow! The albums basically got the "Elvis FTD Classic Albums" treatment, although because of their way of recording there's much more that can be done with Beach Boys recordings etc. But how interesting to see the rest of the set. The live cuts, the acapella versions, the bonus cuts! Very well done!

And also interesting to note that it has some songs from "So tough" but is stopping right before going deeper into that album's songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 08:02:57 AM
This is more beautiful than I ever could have imagined. Thank you to all involved.

I can't wait to digest the track list


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on June 02, 2021, 08:29:38 AM
I'd really wanted the raspberries/strawberries recording origins of at my window

and the Coca-Cola recording origins of cool cool water

with 5 discs there certainly was enough space and perfect setting needless to say

another wasted opportunity


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 08:36:05 AM
I'd really wanted the raspberries/strawberries recording origins of at my window

and the Coca-Cola recording origins of cool cool water

with 5 discs there certainly was enough space and perfect setting needless to say

another wasted opportunity

Any positives for you? How about the Dennis material?

Personally I read the track list and counted myself lucky. Each to their own though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on June 02, 2021, 08:43:02 AM
I'd really wanted the raspberries/strawberries recording origins of at my window

and the Coca-Cola recording origins of cool cool water

with 5 discs there certainly was enough space and perfect setting needless to say

another wasted opportunity
There wasn't an early recording of At My Window called Raspberries, Strawberries as some articles claim. Just an early title they were using for the same recording that came out on Sunflower


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 08:46:04 AM
CD 5. Bonus Disc

Oh my god

How is it not possible for me to get the 5CD set, the 2 CD and the Vinyl box set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 08:48:45 AM
I'd really wanted the raspberries/strawberries recording origins of at my window

and the Coca-Cola recording origins of cool cool water

with 5 discs there certainly was enough space and perfect setting needless to say

another wasted opportunity
There wasn't an early recording of At My Window called Raspberries, Strawberries as some articles claim. Just an early title they were using for the same recording that came out on Sunflower

Yes, and track 12 of disk 3 gives us that track. As for the Coca Cola track, perhaps there were copyright issues.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 02, 2021, 08:59:27 AM
CD 5. Bonus Disc

Oh my god

How is it not possible for me to get the 5CD set, the 2 CD and the Vinyl box set

Wouldn't all material be found on the 5CD box set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 09:10:08 AM
CD 5. Bonus Disc

Oh my god

How is it not possible for me to get the 5CD set, the 2 CD and the Vinyl box set

Wouldn't all material be found on the 5CD box set?

The vinyl/2CD sets seem to have a handful of unique edits.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on June 02, 2021, 09:12:27 AM
I’m am so happy right now I could cry. Been too long. ;D

https://youtube.com/shorts/ffkgvrRHXCw?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
The artwork is absolutely beautiful

Guys, I really am blown away with this. Could not have asked for more


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 02, 2021, 09:28:53 AM
It's pretty amazing to finally see this thing exist for everybody to see.

No need for excessive self-congratulations, but all of the folks here who pushed for this last year and let it be known we wanted this have helped to make sure this thing happens.

And it goes without saying that Howie Edelson made this thing happen, and he along with Boyd and Linett deserve various types of awards. Hopefully a Grammy, and we'll just make up some awards to give them in the meantime...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 09:30:37 AM
I  see Mr Linett is browsing.

A Huge Thank You Mark


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 09:33:12 AM
https://music.apple.com/au/album/feel-flows-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-super/1570363167 (https://music.apple.com/au/album/feel-flows-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-super/1570363167)

Big sur preview, it sounds beautiful


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 09:34:57 AM
https://music.apple.com/au/album/feel-flows-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-super/1570363167 (https://music.apple.com/au/album/feel-flows-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-super/1570363167)

Big sur preview, it sounds beautiful

Wow, those background vox.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 09:36:39 AM
I  see Mr Linnett is browsing.

A Huge Thank You Mark

Yes!!!!


Thank you Mark and Alan, Howie and everyone

You guys have no idea how much this means to us, especially in these times.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 02, 2021, 09:47:41 AM
Regarding the Big Sur snippet, I've never noticed they're using the Rhythm King drum machine again. Same patch as Falling In Love and Till I Die also.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 02, 2021, 10:09:09 AM
CD 5. Bonus Disc

Oh my god

How is it not possible for me to get the 5CD set, the 2 CD and the Vinyl box set
Indeed. But I guess the only stereo Sound of Free will be the session excerpt.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 02, 2021, 10:10:49 AM
I will very, very. very happily be writing about this in my next music column.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on June 02, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
I'd like to say thanks too - staggering! Something in there to delight all listeners.

Looking forward to the whole, but in terms of individual tracks too, I'm most excited about Back Home Live '76; the new Dennis material; Big Sur; Back Home demo; When Girls Get Together and Awake. Not to mention the new album mixes [EDIT: or rather, 'Masters' to contextualise the set].

Thanks for ensuring it was released guys.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on June 02, 2021, 10:50:03 AM
I'd like to say thanks too - staggering! Something in there to delight all listeners.

Looking forward to the whole, but in terms of individual tracks too, I'm most excited about Back Home Live '76; the new Dennis material; Big Sur; Back Home demo; When Girls Get Together and Awake. Not to mention the new album mixes.

Thanks for ensuring it was released guys.

There are no new album mixes


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
The music  universe post has been pulled.. also we've heard nothing from The Beach Boys.

Maybe some places went a day early on this


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on June 02, 2021, 11:01:00 AM
I'd like to say thanks too - staggering! Something in there to delight all listeners.

Looking forward to the whole, but in terms of individual tracks too, I'm most excited about Back Home Live '76; the new Dennis material; Big Sur; Back Home demo; When Girls Get Together and Awake. Not to mention the new album mixes.

Thanks for ensuring it was released guys.

There are no new album mixes

Oh, doesn't make much difference anyways -- great released.

I don't quite understand though -- it gives the full LPs and says "2019 mix" next to them. What are these tracks if not album remixes?? Just wanna know what they are in this case.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on June 02, 2021, 11:02:24 AM
Lots of juicy goodness here!  Diggin' that artwork and booklet.  And once again, huge thanks to all involved!!!   :rock


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 11:04:36 AM
I'd like to say thanks too - staggering! Something in there to delight all listeners.

Looking forward to the whole, but in terms of individual tracks too, I'm most excited about Back Home Live '76; the new Dennis material; Big Sur; Back Home demo; When Girls Get Together and Awake. Not to mention the new album mixes.

Thanks for ensuring it was released guys.

There are no new album mixes

Oh, doesn't make much difference anyways -- great released.

I don't quite understand though -- it gives the full LPs and says "2019 mix" next to them. What are these tracks if not album remixes?? Just wanna know what they are in this case.

It says "2019 master"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: PetSmile on June 02, 2021, 11:08:10 AM
I'd like to say thanks too - staggering! Something in there to delight all listeners.

Looking forward to the whole, but in terms of individual tracks too, I'm most excited about Back Home Live '76; the new Dennis material; Big Sur; Back Home demo; When Girls Get Together and Awake. Not to mention the new album mixes.

Thanks for ensuring it was released guys.

There are no new album mixes

Oh, doesn't make much difference anyways -- great released.

I don't quite understand though -- it gives the full LPs and says "2019 mix" next to them. What are these tracks if not album remixes?? Just wanna know what they are in this case.

It says "2019 master"

Oh, woopsie. Must have confused the 'mix' labels on tracks below with them. Apologies.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 02, 2021, 11:12:46 AM
As others have pointed out, track listings on latter-day releases (e.g. in the digital/streaming era) have usually been pretty good about indicating remix vs. (re)master, and this track listing notes these are "masters", not remixes. These notations are usually accurate, down to noting the year the remasters were done even when the eventual sets they're housed on have been delayed significantly.

All of which, as I suspected, has rendered previous debates about the efficacy of doing remixes on these two albums moot.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on June 02, 2021, 11:33:53 AM
"As for the Coca Cola track, perhaps there were copyright issues."

it's 2021 for pete's sake, how many more decades does this set need to wait until 'copyright issues' finally are resolved?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 02, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
We've gotten a bout 200 previously unreleased tracks in the last decade alone. Is 1 track of a song we have multiple versions of really worth getting this upset about?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on June 02, 2021, 11:59:07 AM
Many Many THANKS to all those involved in making this Set a reality

Massive thanks to all The Beach Boys (especially to Dennis & Carl ,who might not be here but must be looking down and enjoying our euphoria) for making such superb music during the period in question


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 02, 2021, 12:03:14 PM
CD 5. Bonus Disc

Oh my god

How is it not possible for me to get the 5CD set, the 2 CD and the Vinyl box set

Wouldn't all material be found on the 5CD box set?

The vinyl/2CD sets seem to have a handful of unique edits.

Seems a litte strange. Is there anywhere that does a comparison?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ram4 on June 02, 2021, 12:26:26 PM
The 5CD box looks great, looking forward to getting it.  I noticed Back Home (1970) is not on here (and that's ok - we have it on Made In California) plus we do get other versions of it anyway.  I was hoping for a full a Capella version of Break Away.  Other than that - I am thrilled with the track list!  I knew something special had to be planned for Sunflower (and Surf's Up) when the 1969 copyright dump was 3 songs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 02, 2021, 12:47:41 PM
Amazing beyond words, thanks to Howie, Mark, Alan, and everyone involved!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bud Shaver on June 02, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Tears (I got tears I got tears) in the morning (in the mornin')
Now that the release day is coming soon


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on June 02, 2021, 01:22:40 PM
My typical MO for such things is Deluxe Box Set + Vinyl Set. Now please get this up for preorder. Pleeeeeeeease.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on June 02, 2021, 01:31:26 PM
Totally agree - it'll be the 5 CDs and vinyl for me. Howie was right - this thing looks very special!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rich E P on June 02, 2021, 01:41:21 PM
Damn, am I the only one literally drooling over the tastiness of this set!  So excited.  I have always loved this underappreciated (by the general music buying public) era of the band's work.  This beautiful set seems like a wonderful in depth exploration of the work and an embarrassment of riches.

Many thanks to Howie (I really enjoyed your posts and teasers leading up to this announcement), Mark and Alan, and everyone else involved in what is clearly a labour of love.  I had the opportunity to exchange messages (and provide concert tickets) with/to Mark several years back and Alan Boyd was kind enough to invite me over to his place to talk Beach Boys and listen to some wonderful audio treats.  Top Gents. My limited experience with these folks behind these projects is that they are knowledgeable, passionate professionals who know and love the music. They work hard.  We all know how difficult it is to please all parties involved with this band that we love so much.  Your work is appreciated.  Thanks for keeping the legacy alive and vital!

As others have said, this has been a very trying last year and a half.  This promise of this set has been a carrot that has kept me going and holding out hope for the future.  Perhaps that sounds overly dramatic but it is the truth.  

Roll on July 23.  And if anyone can find a listing to preorder on Amazon Canada send me a link.  Doesn't seem available for preorder yet.  I know I will be purchasing every variation possible because I am a geek like that and that is just what I do.  If loving The Beach Boys is wrong, I don't wanna be right!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
Pre orders will definitely be up on the third wherever you are


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 02, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
 :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: buddhahat on June 02, 2021, 02:49:59 PM
What great news! Can’t wait. Does anyone have the track listing for the vinyl set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on June 02, 2021, 02:59:09 PM
Well, this is certainly something. Can't wait! Thanks to everyone for making it a reality!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steven on June 02, 2021, 03:45:49 PM
   Thrilling to read the track list and view the cover art. (Which vaguely reminds of a cross between ENDLESS SUMMER and FRIENDS.) I'll be down for the 5CD set whenever pre-order is available. A grateful "Thanks" to all who made FEEL FLOWS happen!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
Big sur on Spotify here in Ireland now

So beautiful 😍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on June 02, 2021, 04:06:35 PM
Yay! Can't wait!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 02, 2021, 04:55:35 PM
They always F up the cover art. IMO. Aaaaaaalways half ass 🤷🏻‍♂️
This is the artwork we get from the box set of 2 of their best albums.... yikes
You would think since the title is called Feel Flows the art would be from 1971


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 05:02:32 PM
You can order the box set as an MP3 right now on amazon as an MP3 but not the physical copy. So strange.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hongkongcrowe on June 02, 2021, 05:11:57 PM
Here's the info from Wikipedia: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows_(album)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Love Thang on June 02, 2021, 07:07:03 PM
Great artwork, very reflective of the budget. Is that Mama Cass on guitar?

At first I thought Carl was some Cuban farm worker. Also surprised Mike didn’t insist the box come with some type of Velcro removable hat on his photo.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Heysaboda on June 02, 2021, 07:23:37 PM

At last, I have a reason to live again!!!  So happy about this!

 :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 07:33:13 PM
What great news! Can’t wait. Does anyone have the track listing for the vinyl set?

Kinda weird what they did with the original albums, but here it is...

LP 1 SIDE A – SUNFLOWER Original Album
1. Slip On Through (2:19)
2. This Whole World (1:58)
3. Add Some Music To Your Day (3:36)
4. Got To Know The Woman (2:43)
5. Deirdre (3:30)
6. It’s About Time (2:57)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
7. Cotton Fields (2020 stereo mix) (3:16)
8. San Miguel (backing vocals excerpt) (0:35)
9. It’s About Time (backing vocals excerpt) (0:50)

LP 1 SIDE B – SUNFLOWER Original Album
1. Tears In The Morning (4:11)
2. All I Wanna Do (2:36)
3. Forever (2:42)
4. Our Sweet Love (2:41)
5. At My Window (2:32)
6. Cool, Cool Water (5:04)
BONUS TRACK (previously unreleased)
7. This Whole World (Live 1988) (2:01)

LP 2 SIDE C – SUNFLOWER Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. Loop De Loop (original 1969 mix) (2:59)
2. San Miguel (2020 mix) (2:20)
3. Susie Cincinnati (2020 mix) (3:02)
4. Good Time (2019 mix) (2:56)
5. I Just Got My Pay (2019 mix) (2:43)
6. Two Can Play (2019 mix) (2:06)
7. I’m Goin’ Your Way (alternate mix) (2:10)
8. Where Is She (2019 mix) (2:22)
9. Break Away Tag (backing vocals excerpt) (0:18)
10. Our Sweet Love (string section) (1:00)

LP 2 SIDE D – SUNFLOWER Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. This Whole World (alternate ending) (1:41)
2. Add Some Music To Your Day (alternate version) (3:27)
3. Soulful Old Man Sunshine (2019 mix) (3:00)
4. All I Wanna Do (a cappella) (2:41)
5. Back Home (alternate version) (2:34)
6. When Girls Get Together (2019 mix) (3:45)
7. It’s About Time (live 1971) (3:55)
8. This Whole World (backing vocals section) (0:34)

LP3 SIDE E – SURF’S UP Original Album
1. Don’t Go Near The Water (2:41)
2. Long Promised Road (3:32)
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet (2:32)
4. Disney Girls (4:11)
5. Student Demonstration Time (3:59)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
6. Disney Girls (live 1982) (4:19)
7. Feel Flows (backing vocals excerpt) (0:33)

LP3 SIDE F – SURF’S UP Original Album
1. Feel Flows (4:48)
2. Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) (1:59)
3. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (3:09)
4. ’Til I Die (2:33)
5. Surf’s Up (4:14)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
6. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (track & backing vocals) (2:54)
7. ’Til I Die (a cappella) (2:11)

LP 4 SIDE G – SURF’S UP Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. It’s A New Day (2:20)
2. Big Sur (2:35)
3. (Wouldn’t It Be Nice To) Live Again (2019 mix) (4:35)
4. H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 mix) (2:31)
5. 4th Of July (2019 mix) (3:09)
6. Lady (Fallin’ In Love) (1970 stereo mix) (2:21)
7. Behold The Night (2:24)
8. ’Til I Die (piano demo) (1:55)

LP 4 SIDE H – SURF’S UP Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. Medley: All Of My Love / Ecology (4:15)
2. Sweet And Bitter (2:21)
3. My Solution (3:43)
4. Awake (3:17)
5. Take A Load Off Your Feet (Live 1993) (2:26)
6. Surf’s Up (Live 1973) (4:56)
7. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (backing vocals excerpt) (0:32)
8. Disney Girls (backing vocals excerpt) (0:20)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 02, 2021, 07:33:51 PM
Never thought I'd see "My Solution" on vinyl.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 02, 2021, 07:40:36 PM
I know it will be fixed soon but the amazon listing is such a diaster. The artwork has been added but its still under the artist name "Billy Elish"  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on June 02, 2021, 07:48:06 PM
It’s a dream to see this finally happen!
This era deserved so much care like this.
Thanks Howie, Mark, Alan and everybody involved in this project! You did a beautiful job ❤️
And specially, thank you to The Beach Boys for doing so much beautiful music!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on June 02, 2021, 08:16:28 PM
This looks absolutely amazing. We can't thank Howie, Mark, Alan and the others who have made this project enough. This thing looks chock full of interesting stuff.

However, I gotta ask...

What is up with "I'm Going Your Way"? Is there no "original" version? The version released in 2019 was the "alternate vocal take" while this one is an "alternate mix" apparently. Weird.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: NickandthePassions on June 02, 2021, 09:12:19 PM
Looks like Big Sur is the first promotional single for Feel Flows: https://open.spotify.com/track/0MELSVgcAZhXg6ZAqmllD2?si=BoPi54uLTmqcw9pgnu5LsQ


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ninten on June 02, 2021, 09:28:44 PM
Looks like Big Sur is the first promotional single for Feel Flows: https://open.spotify.com/track/0MELSVgcAZhXg6ZAqmllD2?si=BoPi54uLTmqcw9pgnu5LsQ

Can't believe this is finally out! One of my favourite unreleased Beach Boys songs ever. Sounds incredible!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 02, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
I have a problem with the depiction of Carl as a singing cowboy on the cover. Maybe it’s just me......Giddyup! 😲


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rich E P on June 02, 2021, 10:29:48 PM
I just bought and am currently devouring Big Sur on iTunes.  Sounds heavenly!  What a sweet appetizer!  Can't wait for the main course.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 03, 2021, 12:38:16 AM
I have a problem with the depiction of Carl as a singing cowboy on the cover. Maybe it’s just me......Giddyup! 😲


Well, that's what he posed as for the original album's photo shoot.


(https://s3-us-east-2.amazonaws.com/musicfestnews/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/02095947/sunflower-inner.jpg)




EDIT:

This was posted 7 hours ago on the Beach Boys' facebook account:
Quote

We’ve got plans for you… the announcement you’ve been waiting for is coming tomorrow. 🌊 Sign up for our email list now so you don’t miss it!
https://umusic.digital/beach-boys-newsletter/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 01:04:45 AM
Yes I know. But the Gene Autry hat and acoustic guitar raises it to another level.  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 01:17:17 AM
Pre-order now up. $124.98

https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095L2LGJS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1YTPQZQO4EL70&dchild=1&keywords=beach+boys+feel+flows+box+set&qid=1622707892&s=music&sprefix=beach+boys+feel+flows+%2Caps%2C441&sr=1-2


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 03, 2021, 01:27:54 AM
Yes I know. But the Gene Autry hat and acoustic guitar raises it to another level.  :lol


He did wear the hat and had the guitar during the shooting as well.


(https://dowr580i1gdmf.cloudfront.net/1/0/8/4/1/10841_0067__20151015124716.jpg?Expires=1622708595&Signature=iYmFCJriKoibjDSL68RiXNrF2UR~1fL8cxc8NoFAU~znX6wq7fbQ8mL67iYX~mN78wx9bR-RCcP~kQxwsOylQQwk2zcqo~INLyLh0jyK9WgYVILkjjhIm5TXs1HJ~uwWjPr7fF5EeWdKsYfLkLyNPTXeVUFEB1JM12vKme-h8HB0rjwiFxgHYT43QXiUtYBo0QPSArZ6J0ODTFokDl~PyrXqSVCWTLAZG6o-meHsfJHeMTDoHUyk3R4ltGrJRHqg56PFqwVoX7B3kaxpJkyb~uVI~qUkirjFmExI5UfUHmpYAAGDhIRtvXUHEbn113tFNIG3a~5c5LRWAl46npzLCQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIW54XVLPFW7CE7OA)


(https://i.redd.it/rssup48vvdk51.jpg)



But to tell you the truth, I need to get used to the artwork of Feel Flows as well. It is well done and all but I'm used to different images of that time, especially when it comes to Surf's Up. The bright new artwork goes pretty well with what an optimistic album Sunflower is. But Surf's Up is quite dark and introspective (hence the original cover). The new cover says "Soulful old man sunshine" and "Break away", even "Loop de loop" to me than "'Til I die". But that's ok. And I am sure I will get used to it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 01:39:00 AM
I’ll just have to chalk one up to artistic license I guess.  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on June 03, 2021, 01:46:25 AM
Always extremely exciting when eagerly anticipated, high-caliber archival projects like this, especially ones that face obstacles and take longer than usual to reach fruition, are finally announced, artwork & final track list unveiled etc. and this is definitely no exception, far from it. O FRABJOUS DAY, CALLOO CALLAY!!

This will be a true jewel, thanks so much to Alan, Mark, Howie, Craig and everyone who made this treasure happen for us all to cherish.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 03, 2021, 01:50:18 AM
Still saying Billy Eyelash.

Seeing her name next to the Feel Flows set is a bit like finding another type of curly bodily hair in an otherwise delicious meal.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 02:02:29 AM
A few changes but I think the band rotunda still exists.


http://box5853.temp.domains/~beacabre/ocd/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Midwest-Town-2.jpg


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on June 03, 2021, 02:16:57 AM
Are the vinyl mixes going to be different than what's on the CD's?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 02:19:50 AM
Can’t confirm the accuracy but wiki has this list.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows_(album)

Double LP edition   Edit
LP 1   Edit
Sunflower 2019 remaster - Side A
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Slip On Through"   2:19
2.   "This Whole World"   1:58
3.   "Add Some Music to Your Day"   3:36
4.   "Got to Know the Woman"   2:43
5.   "Deirdre"   3:30
6.   "It's About Time"   2:57
Sunflower Bonus Tracks - Side A
No.   Title   Length
7.   "Cotton Fields" (2020 stereo mix, previously unreleased)   3:16
8.   "San Miguel" (Backing vocals excerpt, previously unreleased)   0:35
9.   "It's About Time" (Backing vocals excerpt, previously unreleased)   0:50


Sunflower 2019 remaster - Side B
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Tears in the Morning"   4:07
2.   "All I Wanna Do"   2:36
3.   "Forever"   2:42
4.   "Our Sweet Love"   2:41
5.   "At My Window"   2:32
6.   "Cool, Cool Water"   5:03
Sunflower Bonus Track - Side B
No.   Title   Length
7.   "This Whole World" (Live 1988, previously unreleased)   2:01


LP 2   Edit
Surf's Up 2019 remaster - Side A
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Don't Go Near the Water"   2:41
2.   "Long Promised Road"   3:32
3.   "Take a Load Off Your Feet"   2:32
4.   "Disney Girls (1957)"   4:08
5.   "Student Demonstration Time"   3:59
6.   "Feel Flows"   4:44
7.   "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"   1:57
8.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree"   3:09
9.   "'Til I Die"   2:32
10.   "Surf's Up"   4:14
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side A
No.   Title   Length
11.   "Disney Girls" (Live 1982)   4:19
12.   "Feel Flows" (Backing vocals excerpt)   0:33


Surf's Up 2019 remaster - Side B
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Feel Flows"   4:44
2.   "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"   1:57
3.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree"   3:09
4.   "'Til I Die"   2:32
5.   "Surf's Up"   4:14
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side B
No.   Title   Length
6.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree" (Track & backing vocals)   2:54
7.   "'Til I Die" (a Capella)   2:11


Quadruple LP edition   Edit
LP 1   Edit
Sunflower 2019 remaster - Side A
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Slip On Through"   2:19
2.   "This Whole World"   1:58
3.   "Add Some Music to Your Day"   3:36
4.   "Got to Know the Woman"   2:43
5.   "Deirdre"   3:30
6.   "It's About Time"   2:57
Sunflower Bonus Tracks - Side A
No.   Title   Length
7.   "Cotton Fields" (2020 stereo mix, previously unreleased)   3:16
8.   "San Miguel" (Backing vocals excerpt, previously unreleased)   0:35
9.   "It's About Time" (Backing vocals excerpt, previously unreleased)   0:50


Sunflower 2019 remaster - Side B
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Tears in the Morning"   4:07
2.   "All I Wanna Do"   2:36
3.   "Forever"   2:42
4.   "Our Sweet Love"   2:41
5.   "At My Window"   2:32
6.   "Cool, Cool Water"   5:03
Sunflower Bonus Track - Side B
No.   Title   Length
7.   "This Whole World" (Live 1988, previously unreleased)   2:01


LP 2   Edit
Sunflower Bonus Tracks - Side C
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Loop de Loop" (Original 1969 mix)   2:59
2.   "San Miguel" (2020 mix)   2:20
3.   "Susie Cincinnati" (2020 mix)   3:02
4.   "Good Time" (2019 mix)   2:56
5.   "I Just Got My Pay" (2019 mix)   2:43
6.   "Two Can Play" (2019 mix)   2:06
7.   "I'm Goin' Your Way" (Alternate mix)   2:10
8.   "Where Is She" (2019 mix)   2:22
9.   "Break Away (Tag)" (Backing vocals excerpt)   0:18
10.   "Our Sweet Love" (String section)   1:00


Sunflower Bonus Tracks - Side D
No.   Title   Length
1.   "This Whole World" (Alternate ending)   1:41
2.   "Add Some Music to Your Day" (Alternate version)   3:27
3.   "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" (2019 mix)   3:00
4.   "All I Wanna Do" (a Capella)   2:41
5.   "Back Home" (Alternate version)   2:34
6.   "When Girls Get Together" (2019 mix)   3:45
7.   "It's About Time" (Live 1971)   3:55
8.   "This Whole World" (Backing vocals section)   0:34


LP 3   Edit
Surf's Up 2019 remaster - Side E
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Don't Go Near the Water"   2:41
2.   "Long Promised Road"   3:32
3.   "Take a Load Off Your Feet"   2:32
4.   "Disney Girls (1957)"   4:08
5.   "Student Demonstration Time"   3:59
6.   "Feel Flows"   4:44
7.   "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"   1:57
8.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree"   3:09
9.   "'Til I Die"   2:32
10.   "Surf's Up"   4:14
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side E
No.   Title   Length
11.   "Disney Girls" (Live 1982)   4:19
12.   "Feel Flows" (Backing vocals excerpt)   0:33


Surf's Up 2019 remaster - Side F
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Feel Flows"   4:44
2.   "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"   1:57
3.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree"   3:09
4.   "'Til I Die"   2:32
5.   "Surf's Up"   4:14
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side F
No.   Title   Length
6.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree" (Track & backing vocals)   2:54
7.   "'Til I Die" (a Capella)   2:11


LP 4   Edit
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side G
No.   Title   Length
1.   "It's a New Day"   2:20
2.   "Big Sur" (1970 version)   2:35
3.   "(Wouldn't It Be Nice to) Live Again" (2019 mix)   4:35
4.   "H.E.L.P. is On the Way" (2019 mix)   2:31
5.   "4th of July" (2019 mix)   3:09
6.   "Lady (Fallin' in Love)" (1970 stereo mix)   2:21
7.   "Behold the Night"   2:24
8.   "'Til I Die" (Piano demo)   1:55
Surf's Up Bonus Tracks - Side H
No.   Title   Length
1.   "Medley: All of My Love / Ecology"   4:15
2.   "Sweet and Bitter"   2:21
3.   "My Solution"   3:43
4.   "Awake"   3:17
5.   "Take a Load Off Your Feet" (Live 1993)   2:26
6.   "Surf's Up" (Live 1973)   4:56
7.   "A Day in the Life of a Tree" (Backing vocals excerpt)   0:32
8.   "Disney Girls" (Backing vocals excerpt)   0:20


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on June 03, 2021, 02:30:39 AM

At last, I have a reason to live again!!!  So happy about this!

 :hat

Wouldn't it be Nice (to Live Again?) Yes, it will!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 03, 2021, 02:38:16 AM
The early "Big Sur" is now up on youtube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKugon1OBgU


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: buddhahat on June 03, 2021, 05:08:22 AM
What great news! Can’t wait. Does anyone have the track listing for the vinyl set?

Kinda weird what they did with the original albums, but here it is...

LP 1 SIDE A – SUNFLOWER Original Album
1. Slip On Through (2:19)
2. This Whole World (1:58)
3. Add Some Music To Your Day (3:36)
4. Got To Know The Woman (2:43)
5. Deirdre (3:30)
6. It’s About Time (2:57)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
7. Cotton Fields (2020 stereo mix) (3:16)
8. San Miguel (backing vocals excerpt) (0:35)
9. It’s About Time (backing vocals excerpt) (0:50)

LP 1 SIDE B – SUNFLOWER Original Album
1. Tears In The Morning (4:11)
2. All I Wanna Do (2:36)
3. Forever (2:42)
4. Our Sweet Love (2:41)
5. At My Window (2:32)
6. Cool, Cool Water (5:04)
BONUS TRACK (previously unreleased)
7. This Whole World (Live 1988) (2:01)

LP 2 SIDE C – SUNFLOWER Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. Loop De Loop (original 1969 mix) (2:59)
2. San Miguel (2020 mix) (2:20)
3. Susie Cincinnati (2020 mix) (3:02)
4. Good Time (2019 mix) (2:56)
5. I Just Got My Pay (2019 mix) (2:43)
6. Two Can Play (2019 mix) (2:06)
7. I’m Goin’ Your Way (alternate mix) (2:10)
8. Where Is She (2019 mix) (2:22)
9. Break Away Tag (backing vocals excerpt) (0:18)
10. Our Sweet Love (string section) (1:00)

LP 2 SIDE D – SUNFLOWER Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. This Whole World (alternate ending) (1:41)
2. Add Some Music To Your Day (alternate version) (3:27)
3. Soulful Old Man Sunshine (2019 mix) (3:00)
4. All I Wanna Do (a cappella) (2:41)
5. Back Home (alternate version) (2:34)
6. When Girls Get Together (2019 mix) (3:45)
7. It’s About Time (live 1971) (3:55)
8. This Whole World (backing vocals section) (0:34)

LP3 SIDE E – SURF’S UP Original Album
1. Don’t Go Near The Water (2:41)
2. Long Promised Road (3:32)
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet (2:32)
4. Disney Girls (4:11)
5. Student Demonstration Time (3:59)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
6. Disney Girls (live 1982) (4:19)
7. Feel Flows (backing vocals excerpt) (0:33)

LP3 SIDE F – SURF’S UP Original Album
1. Feel Flows (4:48)
2. Lookin’ At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) (1:59)
3. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (3:09)
4. ’Til I Die (2:33)
5. Surf’s Up (4:14)
BONUS TRACKS (previously unreleased)
6. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (track & backing vocals) (2:54)
7. ’Til I Die (a cappella) (2:11)

LP 4 SIDE G – SURF’S UP Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. It’s A New Day (2:20)
2. Big Sur (2:35)
3. (Wouldn’t It Be Nice To) Live Again (2019 mix) (4:35)
4. H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2019 mix) (2:31)
5. 4th Of July (2019 mix) (3:09)
6. Lady (Fallin’ In Love) (1970 stereo mix) (2:21)
7. Behold The Night (2:24)
8. ’Til I Die (piano demo) (1:55)

LP 4 SIDE H – SURF’S UP Bonus Tracks (previously unreleased)
1. Medley: All Of My Love / Ecology (4:15)
2. Sweet And Bitter (2:21)
3. My Solution (3:43)
4. Awake (3:17)
5. Take A Load Off Your Feet (Live 1993) (2:26)
6. Surf’s Up (Live 1973) (4:56)
7. A Day In The Life Of A Tree (backing vocals excerpt) (0:32)
8. Disney Girls (backing vocals excerpt) (0:20)

Thanks for this. Nice to see WIBNTLA  on LP4 and actually that last disc looks like a pretty sweet sequence. Might try and mock a playlist up of that in anticipation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on June 03, 2021, 05:37:18 AM
Pumped!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on June 03, 2021, 05:49:00 AM
Feel Flows vinyl: https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095M9QR58/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Feel+flows+vinyl&qid=1622724505&sr=8-1


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 05:50:26 AM
Amazon says July 30th, not the 23rd.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 03, 2021, 05:54:08 AM
You can order the box set as an MP3 right now on amazon as an MP3 but not the physical copy. So strange.



The physical copy *was* up for a while, even as recently as this morning. I left for a couple hours and when I got home it was gone. I assume that's just to do with the big things happening soon(tm)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 03, 2021, 05:58:07 AM
Yes, I nearly pre-ordered the Super Deluxe MP3 version thinking it was the 5 disk at the price of £26,99.

I thought I'd bagged one of those momentary bargains, but that's not to say that won't happen. I pre-ordered the Smile box for around £70 then the next day it had shot up to over £100. My finger is getting sore from refreshing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 06:02:21 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 03, 2021, 06:04:09 AM
Here’s the trailer!

https://youtu.be/t8g4xNNs7wE


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on June 03, 2021, 06:07:41 AM
Anyone notice that Amazon has this listed as a “Billie Eilish” release?  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 03, 2021, 06:13:52 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 03, 2021, 06:23:59 AM
Anyone notice that Amazon has this listed as a “Billie Eilish” release?  :lol

This appears to be some sort of cosmetic thing on the actual item page on Amazon.

When you actually put the set in your cart and check out, it correctly shows "Beach Boys" as the artist and Eilish's name is nowhere to be seen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 06:26:33 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific

No, it's an official store exclusive.  The Who recently did this with their SELL OUT vinyl package.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on June 03, 2021, 06:34:41 AM
Amazon says July 30th, not the 23rd.

It's weird because the physical item (5CD) page shows July 30th, but the My Orders page still shows July 23rd.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 03, 2021, 06:36:47 AM
The trailer on YouTube indicates July 30th, so I'd assume July 30th is the correct date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 03, 2021, 06:48:17 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific

No, it's an official store exclusive.  The Who recently did this with their SELL OUT vinyl package.

Ok, thank you


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 03, 2021, 06:48:42 AM
Is it only the 5CD that comes with a book?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on June 03, 2021, 06:56:34 AM
A thing of beauty, and--as Howie promised--something that does total justice to the band's "collectivist" period. Disk five is a work of art in itself, and clearly takes the "bonus disk" concept several steps further than what was accomplished with the analogous disk on the 1993 GV set.

Curious as to whether they've devised a "promo" disk in hopes of getting targeted airplay for the set. Seems to me that they had something like that back in '93...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: stinkynimrod on June 03, 2021, 07:04:50 AM
Is it only the 5CD that comes with a book?

Also wondering the same. I'd like to get the 4LP but I can't tell if the book pictured is the same as the one with the 5cd. Not mentioned in the item description for any of the non-5-cd products.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 07:08:18 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific

Is this more helpful?  It SEEMS to be a UK store but has the total in US $'s.

https://thesoundofvinyl.com/*/New-In-Vinyl/Feel-Flows-The-Sunflower-Surf-s-Up-Sessions-1969-1971-Exclusive-Translucent-Blue-Yellow-Vinyl-4LP/7076146P000



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 03, 2021, 07:08:54 AM
Interestingly, it looks like this is an earlier attempt from the artist on what eventually became the cover:

(https://i.redd.it/f505klrk4sk51.jpg)

Here's the artist's Instragram: https://www.instagram.com/dilloncarson/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on June 03, 2021, 07:42:23 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific

Is this more helpful?  It SEEMS to be a UK store but has the total in US $'s.

https://thesoundofvinyl.com/*/New-In-Vinyl/Feel-Flows-The-Sunflower-Surf-s-Up-Sessions-1969-1971-Exclusive-Translucent-Blue-Yellow-Vinyl-4LP/7076146P000



Great find! In comparison with BB site that saves about $100 on import costs and taxes for us here in the UK


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on June 03, 2021, 07:50:04 AM
Does anyone have a Amazon Canada link for the 5 disc set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on June 03, 2021, 07:51:29 AM
Does anyone have a Amazon Canada link for the 5 disc set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Sam_BFC on June 03, 2021, 08:17:13 AM
Does anyone have a Amazon Canada link for the 5 disc set?

Any good?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B095L2LGJS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2WRZ0NOUIWJ74&dchild=1&keywords=beach+boys+feel+flows&qid=1622733389&sprefix=feel+flows%2Caps%2C255&sr=8-5


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: alanjames on June 03, 2021, 08:19:34 AM
There’s a 10% coupon code available in the official site: GET10OFF.

But I’m waiting for the box set to be available in the uDiscover store, because there’s a $25 OFF available coupon: SUMMER25


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: stinkynimrod on June 03, 2021, 08:31:27 AM
There’s a 10% coupon code available in the official site: GET10OFF.

But I’m waiting for the box set to be available in the uDiscover store, because there’s a $25 OFF available coupon: SUMMER25

Just got the 4LP at uDiscover. SUMMER25 coupon knocked 25% off.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 03, 2021, 08:49:45 AM
Link to Amazon US preorders, release date listed as July 30th, $79.98 US for the 4-LP vinyl:

https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095M9QR58/ref=sr_1_4?crid=OM75WQQO73Z4&dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735236&sprefix=feel+flows%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095M9QR58/ref=sr_1_4?crid=OM75WQQO73Z4&dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735236&sprefix=feel+flows%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-4)

5-CD deluxe box set, $124.98 US:

https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095L2LGJS/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735489&sr=8-15 (https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095L2LGJS/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735489&sr=8-15)

2-CD "Sessions", $19.98 US:

https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095LF5R5N/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735582&sr=8-12 (https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095LF5R5N/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735582&sr=8-12)

2-LP "Sessions", $26.98 US:

https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095LS2CS2/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735642&sr=8-8 (https://www.amazon.com/Flows-Sunflower-Surfs-Sessions-1969-1971/dp/B095LS2CS2/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=feel+flows+beach+boys&qid=1622735642&sr=8-8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 03, 2021, 08:52:15 AM
The amazon pre order sitatuon is a bit of a fiasco


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on June 03, 2021, 08:59:55 AM
Is it only the 5CD that comes with a book?

4 lp and 2 cd come with a diff book from the 5 CD


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 03, 2021, 09:01:05 AM
That is why the 5 CD is a MUST HAVE!  :p


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 03, 2021, 09:01:33 AM
colored vinyl

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/products/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-color-4lp

Good spot but is anyone other than the official BB site selling the coloured vinyls? International shipping is horrific

Is this more helpful?  It SEEMS to be a UK store but has the total in US $'s.

https://thesoundofvinyl.com/*/New-In-Vinyl/Feel-Flows-The-Sunflower-Surf-s-Up-Sessions-1969-1971-Exclusive-Translucent-Blue-Yellow-Vinyl-4LP/7076146P000



Oh well done. And if you use SOV10OFF1 you get 10% off - making it £78.94 delivered, rather than the £126 from the official site. 

Also the official site happily cancelled my order, despite a line in their FAQs saying that "it is not possible" (I mean, it obviously is)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 03, 2021, 09:04:51 AM
"Feel Flows" got a write-up in Rolling Stone this morning:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-big-sur-1177572/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-big-sur-1177572/)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 03, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
I gave to say, between the bellyachin' about no Coca Cola Cool Cool Water, and some dimwit on Facebook claiming the Dennis Wilson tracks are "Not important", I have seen the sparkle gush of love that makes me hold my distance with Beach Boys fans.

Having said that, this set is AMAZING!

Thanks to all who put it together, and thank you very much to the people who got this set to become a reality.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on June 03, 2021, 09:36:54 AM
There’s a 10% coupon code available in the official site: GET10OFF.

But I’m waiting for the box set to be available in the uDiscover store, because there’s a $25 OFF available coupon: SUMMER25

It works but no preorder as of yet  :-[


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on June 03, 2021, 09:41:03 AM
another rolling stone article

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-guide-1176987/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 03, 2021, 09:56:37 AM
another rolling stone article

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-guide-1176987/

Some revelations there, and makes me even more excited to hear the Dennis stuff. Much as I love POB and Bamboo, he was at his absolute peak as a vocalist in 69' /70

And Brian claiming he wrote 'Won't You Tell Me'. I can therefore upgrade this song from a guilty pleasure to a genuine treasure  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 10:04:07 AM
I gave to say, between the bellyachin' about no Coca Cola Cool Cool Water, and some dimwit on Facebook claiming the Dennis Wilson tracks are "Not important", I have seen the sparkle gush of love that makes me hold my distance with Beach Boys fans.
Don't let two people taint the entire fan base.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 03, 2021, 10:36:53 AM
another rolling stone article

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-guide-1176987/


Thanks! Looks like Dennis may finally get his due. The praise he got when POB was re-released and that edition's commercial succes seems to have been forgotten in Beach Boys land. So if this will give him more status in the Beach Boys' saga, that would be great.

I can't wait to listen to all this stuff! Even Murry can be heard  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 03, 2021, 11:19:12 AM
Thanks to Howie and everyone involved in this project!  I’ve been going through a lot of personal issues recently that have had me pretty down - I don’t want to claim that the news of the Feel Flows set has saved my life, but it certainly has helped to raise me out of a very depressing period.

I’m old school and want to go to a record store on release day, be there when the doors open, and get the set the instant they pull it out of the box!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 03, 2021, 11:31:19 AM
Feel flows box set.  Number 1 best seller on amazon!!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 03, 2021, 11:39:14 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/192463662_2880714712198540_7463816342610462351_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=txcTirIkTpIAX_yw_ms&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=e6601d6ee56b6bdfa608511b9e5c7548&oe=60DE5744)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 03, 2021, 11:41:07 AM
And...they also fixed the "Eilish" error on the 5-CD Amazon listing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: STE on June 03, 2021, 11:45:26 AM

Promotional video:

https://youtu.be/t8g4xNNs7wE (https://youtu.be/t8g4xNNs7wE)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Occasional grilled cheese on June 03, 2021, 11:54:42 AM
Alot of this press coverage is referring to the box set version of Big Sur as a previously unreleased song without reference to the reworked version that appeared on Holland 48 years ago. This lack of distinction keeps me up at night.

Edit: Rolling Stone made good below the fold. Brooklyn Vegan and Consequence need to improve


Title: Re: Feel Flows box setm going
Post by: feelintheflows on June 03, 2021, 12:12:44 PM
Thanks to Howie and everyone involved in this project!  I’ve been going through a lot of personal issues recently that have had me pretty down - I don’t want to claim that the news of the Feel Flows set has saved my life, but it certainly has helped to raise me out of a very depressing period.

I’m old school and want to go to a record store on release day, be there when the doors open, and get the set the instant they pull it out of the box!


Im sorry to hear that. It’s been a very difficult year. Well life in general can be difficult. I’m going through some anxiety bullshit that came out of nowhere. But if there’s anyone that can can cheer us up it’s The Beach Boys.

Ps I can’t wait for I’ve Got A Friend



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 03, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
#1 best seller title for a deluxe box set that won't be released for two months...and the listings just went live earlier this morning.

Pretty damn impressive. Kudos to all who made it happen, including the fans (and fans here) who loudly supported this project from the beginning, especially when it looked bleak when the release was in jeopardy. Cheers!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 03, 2021, 12:54:13 PM
Who wants to do a comparison between the different editions? What's missing on the 5CD box and on which issues are the tracks found? :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 01:42:50 PM
Who wants to do a comparison between the different editions? What's missing on the 5CD box and on which issues are the tracks found? :)
Nothing on the 2CD, 2LP, or 4LP editions is missing from the 5CD set.  There are about 18 tracks that are longer on the 5CD set.
I don't know what "which issues are the tracks found" means.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 03, 2021, 01:52:37 PM
Who wants to do a comparison between the different editions? What's missing on the 5CD box and on which issues are the tracks found? :)
Nothing on the 2CD, 2LP, or 4LP editions is missing from the 5CD set.  There are about 18 tracks that are longer on the 5CD set.
I don't know what "which issues are the tracks found" means.

I'll explain. The way I understand it some tracks on the 5CD box seem to appear in other iterations on some of the other versions of Feel Flows. Would be interesting to find out the where these other versions would be found and what crosses over between the sets.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 03, 2021, 02:09:30 PM
Also surprised Mike didn’t insist the box come with some type of Velcro removable hat on his photo.

 :lol

And Brian claiming he wrote 'Won't You Tell Me'. I can therefore upgrade this song from a guilty pleasure to a genuine treasure  :lol

I completely understand  ;)
I've always loved the song but was under the impression Murry wrote it with Rick Henn. on the Sundazed 45 it's credited to just Murry.

the harmonized vocal intro and somewhat insecure lyrics do point more to Brian as creator. perhaps the other Beach Boys just found it way too schmaltzy to consider releasing, but I'm so glad it's on this set and that Brian is now claiming full responsibility for it. it appears we're getting 2 different versions as well. here's the full blurb from RS:

“Won’t You Tell Me”
A voice-and-organ demo of a ballad officially co-credited to the Wilsons’ infamous dad, Murry. (It came out as a B side from a band he was managing, the Sunrays.) As Brian says, “I don’t think I wrote ‘Won’t You Tell Me’ with my dad. I think I wrote that by myself.” In this demo, you can hear Murry in the studio, claiming, “Best song you guys have sung for five years!” Brian’s response is to crack up laughing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 03, 2021, 02:11:38 PM
Is it just me, or does Surf's Up sound like it has been giving the red carpet treatment in remasterinbg in the Youtube video clip. It sounds like Brian is -in- the room. Holy moly.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: “Big Daddy” on June 03, 2021, 02:32:07 PM
Corrections welcome. Track lengths are sourced from the Beach Boys web store.

(https://i.imgur.com/oysB9oX.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/3zTHlvw.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZLuidLO.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/BdDj52U.png)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Thanks for those, BD. Very helpful.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Craig Feldspar on June 03, 2021, 03:59:43 PM
Guys, does this mean that we get the extended flute jam version????




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 03, 2021, 03:59:59 PM
Any chance we could get some insight from one of our honoured guests regarding the amazon UK box set situation  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on June 03, 2021, 04:10:45 PM
Interesting that Brian claims authorship of Won't You Tell Me. Musically it doesn't really strike me as being Brian-esque. The chord changes and uneven metre are aren't typical of him imo, and it always made more sense to me that it would be Murry trying to write a Brian-style song. Also, what's the likelihood that Brian's misremembering here, considering it's a song he probably hasn't thought about in five decades? Maybe hearing the organ demo with him on vocals was enough for him to falsely remember that he must've penned it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 03, 2021, 05:01:09 PM
Guys, does this mean that we get the extended flute jam version????




That's affirmative!

The pictures of the covers of "Brother Proposed Bonus Tracks" CDs that were available on the internet years back had a timing of 7:07, but one would think that a 6:45 edit would have to include said extended flute jam.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 03, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
AWESOME!!!

I just pre-ordered from iTunes and I'm gonna buy the vinyl set as well on Amazon. Does anyone know if the vinyl set comes with the same book as the 5 CD set?

This set looks INCREDIBLE. And the audio of Big Sur - it sounds so crisp and gorgeous. I cannot wait for this!!!

Howie, thanks so SO much for all the hard work you've put into this. You, Mark, Alan, and anyone else who helped are making the world a much happier place right now.

*edit. Looks like the book that comes with the vinyl set is softcover (as opposed to the hardcover with the CD version) - hopefully they both have the same content?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on June 03, 2021, 05:16:56 PM
Anyone know what "Before" is? I think that's the only title I've never heard of.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RubberSoul13 on June 03, 2021, 05:23:39 PM
Just pre-ordered my 5CD from Amazon, and will pick up the LPs upon release at our last remaining local record store this summer!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 03, 2021, 05:25:58 PM
Any chance we could get some insight from one of our honoured guests regarding the amazon UK box set situation  :)

Australia Amazon too please. No prices yet and no CD box. LPs 2+4 and 2 CD only


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 05:39:44 PM
*edit. Looks like the book that comes with the vinyl set is softcover (as opposed to the hardcover with the CD version) - hopefully they both have the same content?
The 5CD and 4LP books can't have the same content because the 5CD book would refer to many songs not on the 4LP set and have different track by track annotation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on June 03, 2021, 05:56:28 PM
the 2 cd booklet and 4 lp booklet are different from the 5 cd booklet


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cork On The Ocean on June 03, 2021, 06:06:57 PM
Great couple of days celebrating the news. Love the artwork. Better than I could have imagined. Preordered the 5CD set and the Color 4LP set from the BB store. Guess they decided against the Fred Vail track "All for the Love of a Girl"? Hope that (or any other tracks from that album) eventually get some sort of release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 03, 2021, 11:02:44 PM
Corrections welcome. Track lengths are sourced from the Beach Boys web store.


Great job man, thanks!

I don't see anything that warrants a purchase of anything more than the 5CD boxset - especially if the vinyl is digitally sourced. The main difference between the versions seems to be just shortening of tracks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TV Forces on June 03, 2021, 11:42:36 PM
https://littlepadbeachboys.blogspot.com/2021/06/feel-flows-box-set-officially-announced.html


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 04, 2021, 12:14:17 AM
Any chance we could get some insight from one of our honoured guests regarding the amazon UK box set situation  :)

Looking at worldwide Amazon sites, the boxed set does appear to be limited to the US right now, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm hoping this is just a short supply issue, and I think we also need to factor in the pandemic as a contributor. However it could be that they simply haven't prepared for the overwhelming demand for this set. I'm tempted to order from the US, but I want it on release day.

I suppose I could tentatively put in a US order and then cancel it if and when the UK site is stocking it, but I've had issues with them charging before dispatch in the past.

What to do......


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on June 04, 2021, 01:15:05 AM
https://littlepadbeachboys.blogspot.com/2021/06/feel-flows-box-set-officially-announced.html


Very cool how Dillon Carson's "fan art" became the basis for the cover art.   And interesting how Al's depiction was de-Teutonized.

For me it's always started and finished with the music, but I've always thought that one of the truly fun aspects of the Beach Boys' "universe" is the many examples of fans, through sheer enthusiasm, becoming part of the story.  There have been countless examples of that, e.g., fans being commissioned to do liner notes; fans like Jeff Foskett becoming part of the BB touring band; Smile superfans like Darian & Wondermints becoming part of Brian's band and playing a key role in the resurrection of Smile, etc etc.  I remember that even one of those guys from the Fendertones somehow got invited to play a few gigs with Brian's band.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 04, 2021, 01:23:58 AM
Interesting that Brian claims authorship of Won't You Tell Me. Musically it doesn't really strike me as being Brian-esque. The chord changes and uneven metre are aren't typical of him imo, and it always made more sense to me that it would be Murry trying to write a Brian-style song. Also, what's the likelihood that Brian's misremembering here, considering it's a song he probably hasn't thought about in five decades? Maybe hearing the organ demo with him on vocals was enough for him to falsely remember that he must've penned it.


I agree with this. Although I'm haven't listened to the song in a while it definitely had that vibe of Murry's style. On the other hand the recently released "Be here in the morning, baby" also sounded more like what I was expecting from Murry. It had that square music sound (not meant in a negative way).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 04, 2021, 01:32:47 AM
Quote
Smile superfans like Darian & Wondermints becoming part of Brian's band and playing a key role in the resurrection of Smile

Somewhat related, being part of the 20 minute standing ovation at the second Smile show has to be one of the greatest honours of my life, especially when it was said that that was when Brian finally let go of the demons surrounding that album. It is lovely how, even in a small way, the fans become an integral part of the tapestry.

I'm also reminded of when Mike thanked Bossaroo for his depiction of him as Emperor Palpatine. Priceless!

As Hey Jude has elsewhere stated, we also played a supporting role in getting this set released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 04, 2021, 01:39:43 AM
I'm listening to the song "Feel Flows" right now and I just remembered that in an interview back in the day Carl described how the sounds on that song were produced. I wonder if that will be part of the booklet. It's certainly not a "lost" interview or such, but it is a nice moment that focuses on the music and technical aspect. Anyway, just talking.... don't pay too much attention to me. I'm just really looking forward to this set.




The Beach Boys Announce Feel Flows – The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions 1969-1971 Box Set

https://consequence.net/2021/06/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set/?fbclid=IwAR091W0q0BB1w7srGUL6dQZt6hh8iZgvHUeTWcnxr1BZ0ex3kPsqWiLfnyE


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pmugghc on June 04, 2021, 02:39:01 AM
Rolling Stone has this article:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-guide-1176987/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on June 04, 2021, 04:19:16 AM
the 2 cd booklet and 4 lp booklet are different from the 5 cd booklet

*edit. Looks like the book that comes with the vinyl set is softcover (as opposed to the hardcover with the CD version) - hopefully they both have the same content?
The 5CD and 4LP books can't have the same content because the 5CD book would refer to many songs not on the 4LP set and have different track by track annotation.

Good call, I didn't think of that. I wonder if the vinyl booklet at least has the same essay that the 5 cd book has.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 04, 2021, 04:48:19 AM
Any chance we could get some insight from one of our honoured guests regarding the amazon UK box set situation  :)

It's available for pre-order from HMV right now if you don't want to wait for Amazon


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 04, 2021, 06:41:47 AM
Ordered the 5CD set on Amazon.de for €90!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on June 04, 2021, 07:32:52 AM
lookin' at tomorrow, a welfare song

at the beginning of the false (guitar) starts you can hear Al say "Not now, Carnie"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 04, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Got an email saying the two disc will be delayed till the 4th or 5th of August


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on June 04, 2021, 10:58:23 AM
Preordered for $152 Canadian with taxes all in  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on June 04, 2021, 11:15:35 AM
Preordered for $152 Canadian with taxes all in  Grin


same here!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 04, 2021, 12:15:25 PM
in case anyone missed it, you can get 25% off ($37.50) the uDiscover price of $149.98. with tax it came to about $120 for me

and now THE WAIT.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 04, 2021, 01:31:08 PM
Does anyone have a clue as to when the live version of "This whole World" was recorded? They played it at a couple of shows in '88, usually in a medley with "Don't worry Baby", I believe, not unlike Brian did in his early solo touring years ("Live at the Roxy").


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 04, 2021, 03:03:28 PM
Does anyone have a clue as to when the live version of "This whole World" was recorded? They played it at a couple of shows in '88, usually in a medley with "Don't worry Baby", I believe, not unlike Brian did in his early solo touring years ("Live at the Roxy").

It was in and out of the setlist for at least a few months. That pro-shot Arizona show with the song is from May '88, and I think there's an audience recording from August of '88 with the song.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on June 04, 2021, 03:12:05 PM
in case anyone missed it, you can get 25% off ($37.50) the uDiscover price of $149.98. with tax it came to about $120 for me

Many thanks for the heads up!   Ordered the 5cd from uD with the SUMMER25 code.   ~$112 with the discount + sales tax, so about $12 below Bezos' price. (Of course, with Amazon's pre-order price guarantee, it's possible that a lower price will kick in at some point between now and the end of July).



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ppk700 on June 04, 2021, 04:23:05 PM
I just preordered my 5-CD set. I'm so excited, everything about this is amazing. We are so lucky! Sunflower and Surf's Up are two of the greatest albums of all time. This is well-deserved.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DJ Mark David on June 05, 2021, 01:23:00 AM
I had to do the 5cd + the 4 LP.

Was on the fence about colored vinyl but in the end there’s nothing wrong with good old black.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 05, 2021, 03:16:36 AM
I had to do the 5cd + the 4 LP.

Was on the fence about colored vinyl but in the end there’s nothing wrong with good old black.



Why both? Seems there isn't anything on the vinyl that isn't on the 5CD-set (except som shorter edits)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 05, 2021, 03:25:13 AM
Does anyone have a clue as to when the live version of "This whole World" was recorded? They played it at a couple of shows in '88, usually in a medley with "Don't worry Baby", I believe, not unlike Brian did in his early solo touring years ("Live at the Roxy").

It was in and out of the setlist for at least a few months. That pro-shot Arizona show with the song is from May '88, and I think there's an audience recording from August of '88 with the song.




Yes. I wondered from what date the "new" version comes from.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DJ Mark David on June 05, 2021, 11:49:57 AM
I had to do the 5cd + the 4 LP.

Was on the fence about colored vinyl but in the end there’s nothing wrong with good old black.



Why both? Seems there isn't anything on the vinyl that isn't on the 5CD-set (except som shorter edits)?

CDs for the car, LPs for home....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on June 05, 2021, 10:12:42 PM
So maybe it got buried, maybe nobody cares...

But on the 1969: I'm Going Your Way EP from 2019, there was "I'm Going Your Way" classified as an "Alternate Vocal Take" while Feel Flows version of the song is listed an as "alternate mix" or something of that nature. Does anybody else (besides me) think that the "alternate mix" label is likely not intended? Because otherwise, we basically started aren't getting the quote-unquote original version. Now of course since Dennis isn't with us (and that at least I am not sure he ever got the tune to the final mix down status) anything put out is likely the work of Mark Linett and of course okayed by Brian, Mike, Al, Carl's estate and perhaps Bruce.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on June 05, 2021, 10:37:02 PM
Also, anybody find it kinda weird that there will be "2019 mixes" of both "Good Time" and "When Girls Get Together"? Personally I figured that their inclusion on the set would have them as they left when the era that encompasses the set ends, as of course both were later put on official, canon Beach Boys studio albums. My assumption is that both will be presented as closely as possible to what they were in '70 and/or '71. Anyway though, is it possible that neither were given even rough mixes in '70/'71?

Lastly, anybody sure about the writers on "It's Natural" and "Won't You Tell Me"? I know it's been said that "It's Natural" is collaboration between Brian and David Sandler but I hadn't seen it confirmed. If it is indeed a Wilson/Sandler tune I am very interested to hear it as "Sweet Mountain" is pretty close to a masterpiece in my book. As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 05, 2021, 10:48:22 PM
For those in the US who perhaps want to support an indie store, although not bricks and mortar. Price seems to match Amazon.

https://recordstoreday.com/UPC/602508802188


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UK_Surf on June 06, 2021, 04:01:31 AM
After 133 pages of build-up I'm thrilled to see the flow's been freed! This looks amazing, huge congrats to all involved.

It's also a brilliant sign that the music press is involved and making some seriously good noise about this, not just in music terms, but about the bones of the set itself:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-guide-1176987/

Plus a brief teaser here:
https://pitchfork.com/news/the-beach-boys-releasing-box-set-of-sunflower-and-surfs-up-sessions/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on June 06, 2021, 04:25:57 AM
Also, anybody find it kinda weird that there will be "2019 mixes" of both "Good Time" and "When Girls Get Together"? Personally I figured that their inclusion on the set would have them as they left when the era that encompasses the set ends, as of course both were later put on official, canon Beach Boys studio albums. My assumption is that both will be presented as closely as possible to what they were in '70 and/or '71. Anyway though, is it possible that neither were given even rough mixes in '70/'71?

Lastly, anybody sure about the writers on "It's Natural" and "Won't You Tell Me"? I know it's been said that "It's Natural" is collaboration between Brian and David Sandler but I hadn't seen it confirmed. If it is indeed a Wilson/Sandler tune I am very interested to hear it as "Sweet Mountain" is pretty close to a masterpiece in my book. As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?

Good Time and When Girls Get Together were both mixed in 1970 and included on the original submission of Sunflower. I'm looking forward to any new mixes, a lot, but I agree that it's a bit of a strange discrepancy when remasters of the original albums are what the set is otherwise prioritising. Those are reflective of the group's artistic intent at the time too, and would have been on the album had it not been for the label. This Whole World and 1970's Good Time had the same stamp of approval, and I don't think the treatment should differ, whether that's remixing both or remastering both. Since we're not going down the remix route, I hope a cop ex release will put the remaining '69-'70 mixes in one place (including those that are already scattered on different comps like Susie and Got My Pay).

It's Natural, I believe, was just written by David Sandler. The I'm Going Your Way released in 2019 featured the later lead vocal attempt - the bootlegged take is a scratch.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DingDangIsTheGreatestSong on June 06, 2021, 06:23:35 AM
So I pre-ordered the 4 LP colored vinyl, are there any differences from the CD version? Also, I ordered from the BB website it says it going to ship on July 30th, I thought pre-ordering you'd get it the day of, but will probably have to wait until sometime in August right?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 06, 2021, 08:54:38 AM
So I pre-ordered the 4 LP colored vinyl, are there any differences from the CD version? Also, I ordered from the BB website it says it going to ship on July 30th, I thought pre-ordering you'd get it the day of, but will probably have to wait until sometime in August right?

The differences between the LPs and CDs, some tracks are shorter mixes (Live Again for example is presumably missing the jam ending). HOWEVER, one track seems to be longer. The Live in 1971 It's About Time seems to be 10 seconds longer on the LP than the CD. In addition, some tracks are labelled as "2019" mix on the CD and "2020" on the LP or vice verse. However that might just be a clerical error.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: doc smiley on June 06, 2021, 09:07:27 AM
If I see anything disappointing here it would be "Sound of Free" 1970 single mix 2019 master... was really hoping we would get a stereo version of this, even if they had to create one using today's tech. otherwise, pretty happy with what I'm seeing
  8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 06, 2021, 10:33:34 AM
Wait until you hear the session excerpt for "Sound Of Free."
I told Boyd -- "This sounds like if Lennon recorded Plastic Ono Band during the RAM sessions."

This thing is packed with, like, a billion little gems.

What a group.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 06, 2021, 11:01:01 AM
Wait until you hear the session excerpt for "Sound Of Free."
I told Boyd -- "This sounds like if Lennon recorded Plastic Ono Band during the RAM sessions."

This thing is packed with, like, a billion little gems.

What a group.


Wow, that is amazing, cannot wait to hear.

In the event that there's a follow up digital release sequel that comes out with some extra content that wasn't able to fit on the CDs, like Sunshine Tomorrow 2, I'm realllly hoping there might be some alternate versions of Celebrate The News, either session excerpts or instrumental version with backing vocals, stuff like that. (Of course I'm chomping at the bit to hear the new mix that is included on the proper set! :) )

I have a hunch if this physical release set sounds like hotcakes, that we might be lucky and get a sequel set of extra tracks like that. There's certainly a recent case of that happening from only several years back as I mentioned.

That said, I certainly don't want to be a whiner and complain about what we didn't get, I am extraordinarily grateful for what we will get already with this set that's going to come out!



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on June 06, 2021, 11:33:29 AM
If I see anything disappointing here it would be "Sound of Free" 1970 single mix 2019 master... was really hoping we would get a stereo version of this, even if they had to create one using today's tech. otherwise, pretty happy with what I'm seeing
  8)

The multi-track master of Sound of Free could not be found.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on June 06, 2021, 11:54:33 AM
Mark, thank you so much for your efforts to bring this set to fruition!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 06, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?

discussed it a little a page or 2 back.
a couple of us are glad Brian is now claiming credit for it, while a couple others seem sure that Murry wrote it and Brian is misremembering. appears that it's being credited to both Brian and Murry in the liner notes.

I've been revisiting the song (which i love) since the announcement. the chords, harmonies, melody, lyrics, not to mention Brian's sheer investment in singing the thing, all point to him indeed having written it. and now we have Brian saying he wrote it entirely. doesn't seem like a thing he'd forget or falsely take credit for.

at any rate, I'm ecstatic we're getting 2 separate versions of this gem of a song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 06, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
So I have the 2cd set coming from amazon UK, Box Set coming from Amazon France. I am very, very tempted to purchase the coloured vinyl box set from The Beach Boys store


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 06, 2021, 01:37:39 PM
and now we have Brian saying he wrote it entirely. doesn't seem like a thing he'd forget or falsely take credit for.





Hope Mike doesn't read this board anymore....  :lol :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: brother john on June 06, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
I'm guessing this has already bean posted, so apols if I'm repeating someone else's post...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZcSn-Ybjw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZcSn-Ybjw)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ang Jones on June 07, 2021, 01:59:13 AM
So I have the 2cd set coming from amazon UK, Box Set coming from Amazon France. I am very, very tempted to purchase the coloured vinyl box set from The Beach Boys store

I think that you may get it cheaper here depending on shipping charges: https://thesoundofvinyl.com/*/*/Feel-Flows-The-Sunflower-Surf-s-Up-Sessions-1969-1971-Exclusive-Translucent-Blue-Yellow-Vinyl-4LP/70760000000?utm_campaign=TheSoundofVinyl20210603&utm_content=&utm_medium=social&utm_source=FacebookPost&utm_umguk=l.facebook.com%2F&utm_campaign=TheSoundofVinyl20210603&utm_content=&utm_medium=social&utm_source=FacebookPost&fbclid=IwAR2ZyGOmXUa0FdqOLcObe4RUI1Za1CVNESW9sRAwn570Q4BKEoiejlFiIGg

£79.99.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 07, 2021, 02:17:29 AM
Why has Dennis not been recognized after all these years and decades?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 07, 2021, 02:58:34 AM
Why has Dennis not been recognized after all these years and decades?

Didn't the Pacific Ocean Blue reiussue do really well? It's a cult classic now. Bambu got a standalone Record Store Day release. Among general music-lovers, it's safe to say he's the second most well known Beach Boy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on June 07, 2021, 03:06:08 AM
Why has Dennis not been recognized after all these years and decades?

PoB's acclaim has increased a lot yeah. I suspect the issue is that many of Dennis' strong songs were never released, and those which were released were mostly on 20/20 and Sunflower, both of which are barely known outside fan circles. His impulsive nature and short attention span also mean that many of his best fragments/song ideas were never finished properly or fleshed out to their fullest potential.

Early 70's really were a weird time for the band. Dennis was trying to do white soul but the band went for roots-rock instead before jumping on the nostalgia train. All this meaning Dennis' efforts to go in a more contemporary direction never really landed like they should have, mostly because the group never really followed through or continued in that direction. The closest they got was highlighting It's About Time live in '71.

I do tend to wonder if Slip on Through and Sound of Free could have been successful singles in 1970 if they'd had the proper promotion/backing. Both strong, commercial songs which wouldn't have been out of place on radio at the time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtcarr79 on June 07, 2021, 03:10:38 AM
I wanted to pre-order the 5CD set from my local independent record shop but got this reply from them:

"Hi Matthew, just getting back to you about this - I have been advised by the rep that we will probably be limited to one copy of this box set and he can't confirm the price to me either (!) so it might be wise to order it from elsewhere to avoid disappointment, sorry I couldn't offer better news"

It's a shame that I'll have to order it from a large company that doesn't really need my money - and who will have fewer restrictions on how much stock it can order. No wonder the little shops are struggling...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on June 07, 2021, 03:38:42 AM
So I pre-ordered the 4 LP colored vinyl, are there any differences from the CD version? Also, I ordered from the BB website it says it going to ship on July 30th, I thought pre-ordering you'd get it the day of, but will probably have to wait until sometime in August right?

... The Live in 1971 It's About Time seems to be 10 seconds longer on the LP than the CD...

Maybe that's to add a fade in/out to the track. That's what I would guess.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 07, 2021, 05:19:13 AM
Still no stock for the 5CD on Amazon UK, oddly


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 07, 2021, 06:21:25 AM
I wanted to pre-order the 5CD set from my local independent record shop but got this reply from them:

"Hi Matthew, just getting back to you about this - I have been advised by the rep that we will probably be limited to one copy of this box set and he can't confirm the price to me either (!) so it might be wise to order it from elsewhere to avoid disappointment, sorry I couldn't offer better news"

It's a shame that I'll have to order it from a large company that doesn't really need my money - and who will have fewer restrictions on how much stock it can order. No wonder the little shops are struggling...

Interesting.

The box set must be very limited in supply.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 07, 2021, 06:22:33 AM
Still no stock for the 5CD on Amazon UK, oddly

Makes no sense.

I went with Amazon France


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtcarr79 on June 07, 2021, 07:19:44 AM
Still no stock for the 5CD on Amazon UK, oddly

Makes no sense.

I went with Amazon France

Is that from the UK? I went with HMV after a few minutes of panic. I'm a bit wary of ordering stuff from Europe post-Brexit in case they slap on a hefty surcharge. Plus I don't want to contribute to Jeff Bezos' space holiday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on June 07, 2021, 07:32:47 AM
As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?

discussed it a little a page or 2 back.
a couple of us are glad Brian is now claiming credit for it, while a couple others seem sure that Murry wrote it and Brian is misremembering. appears that it's being credited to both Brian and Murry in the liner notes.

I've been revisiting the song (which i love) since the announcement. the chords, harmonies, melody, lyrics, not to mention Brian's sheer investment in singing the thing, all point to him indeed having written it. and now we have Brian saying he wrote it entirely. doesn't seem like a thing he'd forget or falsely take credit for.

at any rate, I'm ecstatic we're getting 2 separate versions of this gem of a song.

I dunno... To me the whole vibe of the song just doesn't say Brian at all. The tempo and feel, the uneven numbering of bars, the slightly clunky chord changes. Plus more than anything else, the melody and lyrics just don't feel Brian-esque at all to me - the melody is too on the nose & doesn't feel complete/organic in the way it flows and resolves.

The lyric is weird too - quite over-elaborated in its subject matter and trying too hard to tell a story, whereas Brian tended to keep his lyrics quite basic. It's also quite a conservative lyric which is another thing that leads me to think Murry - would Brian in '70 really have written a song about pleading a girl to tell him if she's a virgin? Really if we compare to Brian's other songs from the time, it makes little sense. He was well into the lighthearted, slice of life sort of bag at that point. Won't You Tell Me just has such a sense of grandiosity and taking itself 100% seriously which doesn't match Brian's style at the time. Even Brian's 'serious' songs of he time like Our Sweet Love orTil I Die are much more subtle and idiosyncratic.

To me, Won't You Tell Me as a complete package definitely has the slightly awkward, adult contemporary tinged vibe of Murry attempting to write a Brian style song. Still, I guess we'll never know for sure. But I can entirely believe that Brian would be misremembering here. The man has written hundreds of songs - it's not unreasonable to suppose that the details of a song which was scrapped five decades ago are a bit hazy to him now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 07, 2021, 08:21:13 AM
Still no stock for the 5CD on Amazon UK, oddly

Makes no sense.

I went with Amazon France

Is that from the UK? I went with HMV after a few minutes of panic. I'm a bit wary of ordering stuff from Europe post-Brexit in case they slap on a hefty surcharge. Plus I don't want to contribute to Jeff Bezos' space holiday.

Yeah the France one will attract tax. I'm assuming that Amazon UK will open sales up within the month


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 07, 2021, 08:23:00 AM
Still no stock for the 5CD on Amazon UK, oddly

Makes no sense.

I went with Amazon France

Is that from the UK? I went with HMV after a few minutes of panic. I'm a bit wary of ordering stuff from Europe post-Brexit in case they slap on a hefty surcharge. Plus I don't want to contribute to Jeff Bezos' space holiday.

😂😂

Apparently it ships from a warehouse in the UK.

Trust me, I would love to purchase from anywhere else but the few places that are selling it are charging pretty high prices. Got it from Amazon France for 83 euro.

Hopefully it works out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on June 07, 2021, 08:26:47 AM
As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?

discussed it a little a page or 2 back.
a couple of us are glad Brian is now claiming credit for it, while a couple others seem sure that Murry wrote it and Brian is misremembering. appears that it's being credited to both Brian and Murry in the liner notes.

I've been revisiting the song (which i love) since the announcement. the chords, harmonies, melody, lyrics, not to mention Brian's sheer investment in singing the thing, all point to him indeed having written it. and now we have Brian saying he wrote it entirely. doesn't seem like a thing he'd forget or falsely take credit for.

at any rate, I'm ecstatic we're getting 2 separate versions of this gem of a song.

I dunno... To me the whole vibe of the song just doesn't say Brian at all. The tempo and feel, the uneven numbering of bars, the slightly clunky chord changes. Plus more than anything else, the melody and lyrics just don't feel Brian-esque at all to me - the melody is too on the nose & doesn't feel complete/organic in the way it flows and resolves.

The lyric is weird too - quite over-elaborated in its subject matter and trying too hard to tell a story, whereas Brian tended to keep his lyrics quite basic. It's also quite a conservative lyric which is another thing that leads me to think Murry - would Brian in '70 really have written a song about pleading a girl to tell him if she's a virgin? Really if we compare to Brian's other songs from the time, it makes little sense. He was well into the lighthearted, slice of life sort of bag at that point. Won't You Tell Me just has such a sense of grandiosity and taking itself 100% seriously which doesn't match Brian's style at the time. Even Brian's 'serious' songs of he time like Our Sweet Love orTil I Die are much more subtle and idiosyncratic.

To me, Won't You Tell Me as a complete package definitely has the slightly awkward, adult contemporary tinged vibe of Murry attempting to write a Brian style song. Still, I guess we'll never know for sure. But I can entirely believe that Brian would be misremembering here. The man has written hundreds of songs - it's not unreasonable to suppose that the details of a song which was scrapped five decades ago are a bit hazy to him now.
Granted at the same time Soulful Old Man Sunshine doesn’t have as much of a Brian sound but he’s still a co writer and the demo is definitely him. I know that doesn’t necessarily mean anything but still


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 07, 2021, 08:48:02 AM
Why has Dennis not been recognized after all these years and decades?

PoB's acclaim has increased a lot yeah. I suspect the issue is that many of Dennis' strong songs were never released, and those which were released were mostly on 20/20 and Sunflower, both of which are barely known outside fan circles. His impulsive nature and short attention span also mean that many of his best fragments/song ideas were never finished properly or fleshed out to their fullest potential.

Early 70's really were a weird time for the band. Dennis was trying to do white soul but the band went for roots-rock instead before jumping on the nostalgia train. All this meaning Dennis' efforts to go in a more contemporary direction never really landed like they should have, mostly because the group never really followed through or continued in that direction. The closest they got was highlighting It's About Time live in '71.

I do tend to wonder if Slip on Through and Sound of Free could have been successful singles in 1970 if they'd had the proper promotion/backing. Both strong, commercial songs which wouldn't have been out of place on radio at the time.

I agree on everything you would just think based on looks and charm ,charisma and talent that he would be up there with Jim Morrison , Jimi Hendrix as iconic status. But I feel as though Brian for these 50+ years have been given credit on everything the other guys haven’t really gotten out of his shadow. I try to put myself in Dennis’s shoes and the other guys shoes. Brian lead them to great success so therefore natural your bad is gonna rely on you. but there came a point where they didn’t need to rely on him and they made great music from friends to Holland without Brian more or less. and then came endless summer which I blame capital for that so Dennis never really was really able to get his way the fact that none of his songs are on surfs Up and the 1973 concert album still bugs me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DJ Mark David on June 07, 2021, 11:17:38 AM
I’m feeling like some merch would also flow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 07, 2021, 06:15:58 PM
Isn’t it kind of weird they haven’t promoted this feel flows set with oh I don’t the song feel flows.....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ebb and Flow on June 07, 2021, 08:21:06 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 07, 2021, 10:59:54 PM
For the real completists there is a SHM-CD version of the 5 disc set. Don’t know anything about them.


https://tower.jp/item/5209587/フィール・フロウズ:サンフラワー&サーフズ・アップ・セッションズ1969-1971<完全生産限定盤>

https://tower.jp/item/5209640/FEEL-FLOWS:-The-Sunflower-&-Surf's-Up-Sessions-1969-1971<限定盤>


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on June 08, 2021, 03:49:43 AM
I can understand why they weren't a part of this set, but I would love for the mono promo mixes of Susie Cincinatti and Add Some Music to turn up on an end of year copyright dump ;) I'm guessing maybe the next mix of the former on the box will mirror this in stereo - we'll soon know!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 08, 2021, 06:37:50 AM
I can understand why they weren't a part of this set, but I would love for the mono promo mixes of Susie Cincinatti and Add Some Music to turn up on an end of year copyright dump ;) I'm guessing maybe the next mix of the former on the box will mirror this in stereo - we'll soon know!

For me, the big missing thing is Silly Walls, that Wilson/Sandler thing. They included Awake, and It's Natural is a Brian/Sandler thing according to Don Goldberg's book. A bit sad they missed out on the third one - my favourite of the two that circulate.
To be clear, I am incredibly excited for the set, it's just this one omission I'm a bit bummed by.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 08, 2021, 12:00:58 PM
There’s a 10% coupon code available in the official site: GET10OFF.

But I’m waiting for the box set to be available in the uDiscover store, because there’s a $25 OFF available coupon: SUMMER25

Just got the 4LP at uDiscover. SUMMER25 coupon knocked 25% off.

Could you like us please? I am trying "SUMMER25" at https://store.udiscovermusic.com/ but "No Voucher >SUMMER25< found."


EDIT:
Nevermind - seems you need to be in the American store to use it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 08, 2021, 12:10:21 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Agree


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 08, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Agree. The more I think about it the more I don’t understand the Feel Flows title. Great song I just don’t see the correlation. And the random idiot or casual fan won’t know what it means.

If you're aiming for random idiots, you're looking for trouble. Idiocy breeds it.

This box is aimed at the obsessive fan, not the casual fan.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 08, 2021, 02:36:58 PM
My box set is delayed till the 9th of August  :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Mayo on June 08, 2021, 02:50:55 PM
it just means the set is selling very well. we will all get in very soon. im very glad it is selling well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 08, 2021, 03:52:58 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Agree. The more I think about it the more I don’t understand the Feel Flows title. Great song I just don’t see the correlation. And the random idiot or casual fan won’t know what it means.


If you're aiming for random idiots, you're looking for trouble. Idiocy breeds it.

This box is aimed at the obsessive fan, not the casual fan.

Okaaay...?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 08, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
it just means the set is selling very well. we will all get in very soon. im very glad it is selling well.

My 2cd is delayed as well from amazon UK.

I'll be waiting a while  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on June 08, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Agree. The more I think about it the more I don’t understand the Feel Flows title. Great song I just don’t see the correlation. And the random idiot or casual fan won’t know what it means.

If you're aiming for random idiots, you're looking for trouble. Idiocy breeds it.

This box is aimed at the obsessive fan, not the casual fan.

ADD SOME MUSIC was rejected by the Beach Boys when it came time to finally assemble their first Warners LP.

"Feel Flows," the song, as utilized by Cameron Crowe in his popular and well-received film "Almost Famous," was lifted out of relative obscurity by its placement as the film's closing track, reaching an entirely new audience at the time.

FEEL FLOWS, the CD compilation, is a way of giving some long-overdue props to Carl Wilson, who was "the glue" of this entire period, but whose untimely death in 1998 had served to obscure the magnitude of his contributions to the "democratic" period that the band entered into from 1968-73. All the surviving members of the band are well aware of just how significant Carl's contributions were in keeping the band on track in a time frame when things could just as easily fallen apart. I'm guessing that all of them wanted to use that song title as a way of recalibrating everyone's understanding of the band's history--just as Brian decided to honor his brother by using another of Carl's songs, LONG PROMISED ROAD, as the title of a documentary.

I don't think the band had the title thrust upon them, and even if such was the case, they've had plenty of time to change their minds (which they have been well-known for doing over the years!)...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 08, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Imagine we got a landlocked bonus disc 😍

I wonder if that was very considered. Hopefully we get an in depth Alan or Mark interview soon.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ebb and Flow on June 08, 2021, 08:11:31 PM

ADD SOME MUSIC was rejected by the Beach Boys when it came time to finally assemble their first Warners LP.

"Feel Flows," the song, as utilized by Cameron Crowe in his popular and well-received film "Almost Famous," was lifted out of relative obscurity by its placement as the film's closing track, reaching an entirely new audience at the time.

FEEL FLOWS, the CD compilation, is a way of giving some long-overdue props to Carl Wilson, who was "the glue" of this entire period, but whose untimely death in 1998 had served to obscure the magnitude of his contributions to the "democratic" period that the band entered into from 1968-73. All the surviving members of the band are well aware of just how significant Carl's contributions were in keeping the band on track in a time frame when things could just as easily fallen apart. I'm guessing that all of them wanted to use that song title as a way of recalibrating everyone's understanding of the band's history--just as Brian decided to honor his brother by using another of Carl's songs, LONG PROMISED ROAD, as the title of a documentary.

I don't think the band had the title thrust upon them, and even if such was the case, they've had plenty of time to change their minds (which they have been well-known for doing over the years!)...

I know all of this and agree somewhat, but I still think that "Add Some Music" just works better as a title for a box set compilation and for John Q Public who unfortunately has little familiarity to some of the music on this set.  BB fanatics like us would buy the set regardless of what it was called.

And AFAIK the "Add Some Music" title was never actually "rejected" by anyone, it was just changed to Sunflower for the final approved album after several iterations of the track lineup had been rejected.  If the album had been approved by Warner/Reprise earlier in 1970 it would have gone out with that title.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on June 09, 2021, 01:29:30 AM
"Add Some Music" is a mediocre and prosaic title in general, for the song or single putative album it's OK, but for an ambitious box set "Feel Flows" is far superior.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on June 09, 2021, 05:55:30 AM
"Add Some Music" is a mediocre and prosaic title in general, for the song or single putative album it's OK, but for an ambitious box set "Feel Flows" is far superior.

This. "Sunflower" is a much better title. "Feel Flows" is an insanely superior box title.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Yorick on June 09, 2021, 06:29:24 AM
The 'Til I Die piano demo is an instrumental run-through of the chords, very rough and basic. But it's nice to hear Brian's voicings this clear.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Yorick on June 09, 2021, 06:32:54 AM
The Surf's Up 1971 remake track with 1966 Brian vocals is a weird thing. It's intriguing, but not a great listening experience. I wonder just how much of it was flown-in. Perhaps the muted trumpets were also flown-in. I think I would have preferred hearing the 1971 backing track as it was left, but it's still nice to be able to hear it in some form.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on June 09, 2021, 07:08:04 AM
There's an alternate mix of "Long promised road" "out there", in hd, you can clearly hear the instruments, and the vocals are crispy, that clocks in at 4:51. On the FF box set there are: the 2019 master, 3:32, a cappella, 4:00, live 1972, 4:14 and track/backing vocals, 3:38 versions. Did they miss out on that one? And is the rest of the SU album available in hd, like the "LPR" alternate mix - is it a fan mix?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on June 09, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
The Surf's Up 1971 remake track with 1966 Brian vocals is a weird thing. It's intriguing, but not a great listening experience. I wonder just how much of it was flown-in. Perhaps the muted trumpets were also flown-in. I think I would have preferred hearing the 1971 backing track as it was left, but it's still nice to be able to hear it in some form.

What do you mean by "flown-in"? It's presented exactly as recorded; no extra instruments were added.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. G on June 09, 2021, 08:19:44 AM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 09, 2021, 08:50:17 AM
If the set is called feel flows a song off of a  1971 album wouldn’t you think the cover art would be something similar to that  same
 album?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on June 09, 2021, 10:36:19 AM
I think the people working on this set know what they're doing as far as choosing a title and cover art.

They don't have to do a hard sell on this for hardcore fans; we'll buy this if they're loose discs in a manila envelope.

This is being targeted to a wider array of potential buyers (and not necessarily total random schlubs, but fans of this type of music that still don't know about early 70s BBs), and the title and cover art are being presented as a *new* product.

The title needs to be short and punchy and memorable hopefully, and the cover art eye-catching.

I can't not have a soft spot for the cover art for "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", but this type of set clearly needs something else, for many reasons.

I don't want to get too bogged down in the semantics of an "Add Some Music" title. I'd say if that was the title, it would beg questions (e.g. "add some music to WHAT?"), and "Add Some Music to Your Day" is probably too long. Social media hashtags and metadata for all sorts of online services are hindered the longer a title is. "Feel Flows" is perfect.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on June 09, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
If the set is called feel flows a song off of a  1971 album wouldn’t you think the cover art would be something similar to that  same
 album?

With the country (hopefully...) coming out of a pandemic, my sense is that the powers that be opted for something more positive in tone/color than the wonderful but ultra-moody SURF'S UP album art.

And this way they split the difference--by titling the collection with a song from SURF'S UP, but referencing the art from the "album offering" of SUNFLOWER.

And they did the sunflower up proudly with Disk Five, n'est-ce pas?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM

I don't want to get too bogged down in the semantics of an "Add Some Music" title. I'd say if that was the title, it would beg questions (e.g. "add some music to WHAT?"),



I don't see it like that. I think "Add some Music" would be a nice title. It just advices you to add music to basically everything. Just add some music. Now, I guess the title would make the most sense in combination with the backcover of "Sunflower" which actually mentions some ingredients (I guess that was the idea?). But what the heck. "Add some Music" is a nice phrase.

Regarding the new set: I'm fine with "Feel Flows". It's not as catchy, sure, but it works as a description of how the Beach Boys' best music was done: By letting your feelings flow into it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steven on June 09, 2021, 03:34:47 PM
I feel like "Add Some Music" would have been a better title for this set, even though I much prefer Feel Flows over that track.  "Add Some Music" was also the original title for Sunflower.


Agree. The more I think about it the more I don’t understand the Feel Flows title. Great song I just don’t see the correlation. And the random idiot or casual fan won’t know what it means.

 

If you're aiming for random idiots, you're looking for trouble. Idiocy breeds it.

This box is aimed at the obsessive fan, not the casual fan.


  FEEL FLOWS is the  perfect title in commercial and aesthetic terms. Best known song on the box, heard by millions since 2000 via the film Almost Famous.

 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 10, 2021, 01:43:38 AM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h

Hmm....appealing. Anyone used this seller before?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 10, 2021, 04:28:28 AM
The 'Til I Die piano demo is an instrumental run-through of the chords, very rough and basic. But it's nice to hear Brian's voicings this clear.

Where are you listening to it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: tansen on June 10, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h

Hmm....appealing. Anyone used this seller before?

Many times. All legit and good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on June 10, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h

Hmm....appealing. Anyone used this seller before?

Many times. All legit and good.

I've bought from them on amazon, never used their website before. I got a refund from uDiscover and went with ImportCDs instead.
I'll be checking with them first from now on. thanks Mr. G


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: buddhahat on June 10, 2021, 03:56:12 PM
Thanks Mark Linett for all your hard work over the years. Still listen regularly to the Smile Sessions - love that set. Can’t wait for this one too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 10, 2021, 05:11:45 PM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h

Hmm....appealing. Anyone used this seller before?

Many times. All legit and good.

Thanks. Would be importing anyway and even with the additional charges this still works out better than Amazons base price. 👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CAFeelin89 on June 10, 2021, 09:17:33 PM
Importcds.com 5 Cd set for US $88.52 plus s/h

Hmm....appealing. Anyone used this seller before?

Many times. All legit and good.

Thanks. Would be importing anyway and even with the additional charges this still works out better than Amazons base price. 👍

Are the ones on ImportCDs US copies being sold out of the US? That may be a dumb question, but I'm not sure what's "imported" about them. I'm really sold on that price, though!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on June 10, 2021, 10:15:43 PM
Thanks Mark Linett for all your hard work over the years. Still listen regularly to the Smile Sessions - love that set. Can’t wait for this one too.

You're most welcome........


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 11, 2021, 01:08:44 AM
Thanks Mark Linett for all your hard work over the years. Still listen regularly to the Smile Sessions - love that set. Can’t wait for this one too.

You're most welcome........


I'd like to second that message by buddhahat, Mark! Thanks for all the work you guys did. For the Beach Boys' legacy and the Beach Boys' fans it is a blessing that people like you, Alan Boyd, Howie Edelson etc. are working on these releases.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on June 11, 2021, 02:10:19 AM
Thanks Mark Linett for all your hard work over the years. Still listen regularly to the Smile Sessions - love that set. Can’t wait for this one too.

You're most welcome........


I'd like to second that message by buddhahat, Mark! Thanks for all the work you guys did. For the Beach Boys' legacy and the Beach Boys' fans it is a blessing that people like you, Alan Boyd, Howie Edelson etc. are working on these releases.

Thirded, with utmost enthusiasm and appreciation!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 11, 2021, 06:55:42 AM
Now on Amazon U.K. for £79.68

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B095L2LGJS?tag=camelalerts-21&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_GB


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 11, 2021, 11:42:18 AM
My pleasure guys. Cannot wait for you all to hear all this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 12, 2021, 01:27:29 AM
The Beach Boys: 4LP Unboxing "Feel Flows" – The Sunflower & Surf's Up Sessions 1969-1971


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS80zkzOVA4


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on June 12, 2021, 04:11:35 AM
Thanks Rocker, that is beautiful!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 12, 2021, 05:30:50 AM
The a capella version of Surf's Up.

Oh my lord.

https://www.qobuz.com and search for the Feel Flows set. Then scroll through the tracks and purchase the track. Only that and Big Sur are available for now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 12, 2021, 06:18:55 AM
The a capella version of Surf's Up.

Oh my lord.

https://www.qobuz.com and search for the Feel Flows set. Then scroll through the tracks and purchase the track. Only that and Big Sur are available for now.


Yeah it's been up for a couple days. I bought it on Wednesday. Odd that it hasn't been officially mentioned or added to streaming yet. But hey, I'm not complaining. The cleanest Child coda yet more than satisfies me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on June 12, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
The price for the 5CD set on Amazon US dropped to $105.99


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on June 13, 2021, 02:47:31 AM
I'd love to be able to download the mp3's PLUS order the book (physical or digital). But unfortunately not possible. Never play cd's or vinyl, always transfer to mp3. Don't get me wrong, been a fan and bought vinyl ever since 1965, but times have changed...

I've seen there's Hi-Res mp3 available. Any information on that? The quality compared to cd/vinyl?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 13, 2021, 04:53:19 AM
I'd love to be able to download the mp3's PLUS order the book (physical or digital). But unfortunately not possible. Never play cd's or vinyl, always transfer to mp3. Don't get me wrong, been a fan and bought vinyl ever since 1965, but times have changed...

I've seen there's Hi-Res mp3 available. Any information on that? The quality compared to cd/vinyl?

Qobuz lists a FLAC download for around £55, which is lossless format, higher quality than mp3. However you can rip FLAC files from the CD anyway with a computer.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jules on June 13, 2021, 06:13:03 AM
Purchased on 7 June my 5cd version from Amazon Italy for 68.85 Euros including tax (8% Swiss VAT) and includes delivery to Switzerland.

If I order today from Amazon IT, it is now 80.86 Euros.

It is a little strange how the prices can vary so much from Amazon site to Amazon Site. In my experience sometimes Amazon IT is cheaper and sometimes Amazon De. if you buy a French artist, Amazon FR is often the cheapest.

Amazon UK has since Brexit become much more expensive than Amazon DE but even then there are exceptions.

PS: My first post to this Board although I have lurked for years. Been a Beach Boy fan since 1973 when I was still at school in the UK - the second LP I bought was Holland (first LP John Lennon's Imagine).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mr. Tiger on June 15, 2021, 07:42:33 AM
I'd love to be able to download the mp3's PLUS order the book (physical or digital). But unfortunately not possible. Never play cd's or vinyl, always transfer to mp3. Don't get me wrong, been a fan and bought vinyl ever since 1965, but times have changed...

I've seen there's Hi-Res mp3 available. Any information on that? The quality compared to cd/vinyl?

Qobuz lists a FLAC download for around £55, which is lossless format, higher quality than mp3. However you can rip FLAC files from the CD anyway with a computer.

24 bit 88.2 khz files are being offered, which is actually better quality than cd.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 18, 2021, 02:06:24 AM
Purchased on 7 June my 5cd version from Amazon Italy for 68.85 Euros including tax (8% Swiss VAT) and includes delivery to Switzerland.

If I order today from Amazon IT, it is now 80.86 Euros.

It is a little strange how the prices can vary so much from Amazon site to Amazon Site. In my experience sometimes Amazon IT is cheaper and sometimes Amazon De. if you buy a French artist, Amazon FR is often the cheapest.

Amazon UK has since Brexit become much more expensive than Amazon DE but even then there are exceptions.

PS: My first post to this Board although I have lurked for years. Been a Beach Boy fan since 1973 when I was still at school in the UK - the second LP I bought was Holland (first LP John Lennon's Imagine).

It's gone from £79 to £86 on Amazon UK too. A constant £90 on HMV though. Glad I got in early :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonoraDick on June 20, 2021, 03:38:50 PM

Are the ones on ImportCDs US copies being sold out of the US? That may be a dumb question, but I'm not sure what's "imported" about them. I'm really sold on that price, though!

Yes, I think they're based in Kentucky.

Acting on a tip from a coupon site, I signed up for importcds' newsletter. Although there was no mention of this on their site, the email from importcds confirming the newsletter contained a 10% discount code good for 14 days. I successfully applied this to my order, bring the final cost for the   
5 cd set to just under $90... a full $25 less than Amazon. Shipping will be slower, as they say 5-10 days for the "standard" shipping I chose; you could upgrade to "expedited" for a few dollars more (I think about $5 as I recall) and still beat Bezos out of quite a few bucks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CAFeelin89 on June 20, 2021, 08:30:50 PM

Are the ones on ImportCDs US copies being sold out of the US? That may be a dumb question, but I'm not sure what's "imported" about them. I'm really sold on that price, though!

Yes, I think they're based in Kentucky.

Acting on a tip from a coupon site, I signed up for importcds' newsletter. Although there was no mention of this on their site, the email from importcds confirming the newsletter contained a 10% discount code good for 14 days. I successfully applied this to my order, bring the final cost for the   
5 cd set to just under $90... a full $25 less than Amazon. Shipping will be slower, as they say 5-10 days for the "standard" shipping I chose; you could upgrade to "expedited" for a few dollars more (I think about $5 as I recall) and still beat Bezos out of quite a few bucks.

Excellent information, thank you!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on June 21, 2021, 05:20:52 AM
I really hoped for a remix mostly of the awful boomy bd on this whole world. Really glad the set is finally coming though!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TheLukeDiamond on June 24, 2021, 01:12:35 AM
Just bought the 5 CD box set on ImportCDs, that website is just amazing! Completely legit from what I can tell, and if you sign up for their email newsletter, you get a 10% off coupon. My order ended up being 88 USD, shipping and all! I'm so excited.

Does anyone know if there'll be a release of the Sunflower and Surf's Up LPs individually? I was considering buying the LP set just for the reissued albums, but I don't have that kind of money!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 24, 2021, 01:22:25 AM
FWIW, this was posted on the Beach Boys' Facebook profile:


Got a groovy little motor car… 🚗
Can you guess which track off of #FeelFlows is coming out this Friday?
Pre-order #FeelFlows here: https://TheBeachBoys.lnk.to/FeelFlows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on June 24, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
FWIW, this was posted on the Beach Boys' Facebook profile:


Got a groovy little motor car… 🚗
Can you guess which track off of #FeelFlows is coming out this Friday?
Pre-order #FeelFlows here: https://TheBeachBoys.lnk.to/FeelFlows

Yep, the July '76 Anaheim performance of Susie Cincinnati has been out in countries where it's Friday.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on June 24, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Listening to Susie... er... is this a pattern? ie. The preview tracks coming from the least talented songwriters of the group (and definitely the least associated with the creative bonanza that the Sunflower/Surf's Up era represent)... what's next... a Bruce song?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on June 25, 2021, 01:23:33 AM
Here's the youtube-link:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCJCB57gHhM




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: waketheworld on June 25, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
Listening to Susie... er... is this a pattern? ie. The preview tracks coming from the least talented songwriters of the group (and definitely the least associated with the creative bonanza that the Sunflower/Surf's Up era represent)... what's next... a Bruce song?

that's harsh...I didn't say untrue, I said harsh


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on June 25, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 25, 2021, 07:09:49 PM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.


A very odd choice indeed. As a hard-core fan I can certainly appreciate it, but it's just a strange choice on every level, I don't think this choice of a teaser single will get one additional person to purchase the box. I'm not dissing it though, it's a good performance and I've always liked this song, although I'm sure it's not one of the best tracks on the entire box, and perhaps they're just really trying to keep the best stuff under wraps for now.

My guess would be the powers that be were really trying to be diplomatic about giving a spotlight to each of the band members and their own songs. That may well have been some contractual thing. Or maybe it's just some sort of a directive from marketing to showcase each member and this song was chosen because somebody working on this it happens to like it. But my guess is that Al gave it a thumbs up and then he probably still has an affection for his own song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DonnyL on June 25, 2021, 07:38:16 PM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.


A very odd choice indeed. As a hard-core fan I can certainly appreciate it, but it's just a strange choice on every level, I don't think this choice of a teaser single will get one additional person to purchase the box. I'm not dissing it though, it's a good performance and I've always liked this song, although I'm sure it's not one of the best tracks on the entire box, and perhaps they're just really trying to keep the best stuff under wraps for now.

My guess would be the powers that be were really trying to be diplomatic about giving a spotlight to each of the band members and their own songs. That may well have been some contractual thing. Or maybe it's just some sort of a directive from marketing to showcase each member and this song was chosen because somebody working on this it happens to like it. But my guess is that Al gave it a thumbs up and then he probably still has an affection for his own song.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the idea of the ‘69-‘71 set including live performances of songs from the era but performed in other eras. I don’t get that ... I’d rather hear, say- “Country Air” as it was performed in 1970 ... just seems to me that the continuity and vision for the set would be better served with that than a 1989 performance of “This Whole World” ending the original Sunflower LP. One man’s opinion. Possibly a cost-saving measure to include dupes of the same songs, in terms publishing $$$.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 25, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
I don't understand that choice of songs to release either. It's a recording from 5 years after the era being presented on the box. If this is a teaser to generate interest, why not generate interest with a track from the era being covered on the set?

I'll speak freely on this one...it reminds me of the label's decision to release "Runaway Dancer" as a single from Brian's "No Pier Pressure" and have it performed on Conan's TV show to generate interest in the album and tour. It wasn't in the top-5 songs on that album, objectively and in my opinion, yet the label said let's push this as a single. Never agreed with that decision considering what else surrounded that song in terms of quality and representing Brian Wilson's music.

It would be like putting a track from a Mike & Bruce concert in the 2000's on the Made In California set and using it as a teaser. It doesn't make sense, but I hope whatever interest is generated is positive for the set itself. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 25, 2021, 11:12:06 PM
So... my 2cd order from amazon UK has been pushed back to September 2nd

Cool


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: UEF on June 25, 2021, 11:38:39 PM
Amazon U.K. also lowered the presale price to £74.91 (all pre orders will go out at the lowest price it hits before release)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on June 26, 2021, 05:52:10 AM
So... my 2cd order from amazon UK has been pushed back to September 2nd

Cool

Yep my Amazon US order of the 5CD set was pushed to 8/27


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 26, 2021, 06:55:24 AM
So... my 2cd order from amazon UK has been pushed back to September 2nd

Cool

Yep my Amazon US order of the 5CD set was pushed to 8/27

 ???

Could this mean that worldwide release has been postponed to late August? I'd be disappointed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 26, 2021, 06:56:08 AM
(sorry, double post)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on June 26, 2021, 07:30:19 AM
This release isn't just celebrating the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, it's also celebrating the songs created and recorded during this time.  I'm fine with the idea of including live versions of these songs as performed through the years - most were not performed live in 69-71 anyway.

I suspect the live 69-71 concerts will come in a copyright dump online at the end of the year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 26, 2021, 08:08:30 AM
So... my 2cd order from amazon UK has been pushed back to September 2nd

Cool

Yep my Amazon US order of the 5CD set was pushed to 8/27

 ???

Could this mean that worldwide release has been postponed to late August? I'd be disappointed.

The physical one for sure. But curiously, both Amazon and Apple Music still list the date as July 30th. Hopefully it's just the physical that's delayed and we don't have to wait another month to hear it at all.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 26, 2021, 08:25:56 AM
So... my 2cd order from amazon UK has been pushed back to September 2nd

Cool

Yep my Amazon US order of the 5CD set was pushed to 8/27

 ???

Could this mean that worldwide release has been postponed to late August? I'd be disappointed.

The physical one for sure. But curiously, both Amazon and Apple Music still list the date as July 30th. Hopefully it's just the physical that's delayed and we don't have to wait another month to hear it at all.

Ah thank you. I'm not acquainted with the way Amazon and Apple Music do these things. I'll patiently wait for the 5CD-set; it's always a delight to order it at my local retailer's, and hand Paul (the owner's name) the money myself when it will have arrived. It is a good, modern, not-too-big record shop; it's aways been a family business, and have bought my vinyl and CDs there for 40 years now. Incredible, when I think about this. This kind of pleasant ritual is so satisfying.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 26, 2021, 09:18:22 AM
This release isn't just celebrating the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, it's also celebrating the songs created and recorded during this time.  I'm fine with the idea of including live versions of these songs as performed through the years - most were not performed live in 69-71 anyway.

I suspect the live 69-71 concerts will come in a copyright dump online at the end of the year.

I don't think anyone who posted about "Susie" has an issue with including these live versions from other eras on the actual set, in fact I think everyone welcomes them on the set. It was the issue of using a live track from 1976 as an advance promo or teaser kind of thing for the 69-71 set. I don't think it represents what the overall vibe of the set is about, but again that's just my opinion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on June 26, 2021, 12:16:45 PM
The official Beach Boys FB page is now saying Aug. 27 for the release date.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 26, 2021, 12:30:22 PM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on June 26, 2021, 01:05:20 PM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.

To be entirely clear, since they still all say July 30th, this does include the digital releases, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 26, 2021, 02:32:50 PM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.

Cool, and if anything, the new date makes it closer to the original Aug 31, 1970 release date of Sunflower. Thanks for the update, Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on June 26, 2021, 02:57:46 PM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.

I kinda like the idea of having the live tracks over the years included. Honestly I was kinda hoping Dylan's More Blood, More Tracks set was gonna use live tracks on that one to demonstrate how the songs have changed over the years on stage.

I will say though, the inclusion of a live 1976 version of "Back Home" is odd. I get that "Back Home" was recorded during the Sunflower sessions, hence it's inclusion. However, while the 1963 version and the 15 Big Ones version are very similar, the Sunflower era version is quite different, perhaps due to the creative mind of one Alan Jardine. Now granted, this Sunflower era version does have the wailing "back home, I spent my summer" part, and that definitely does tie it closer to the 1976 live version. But still, altogether a peculiar choice, and one that would of course fit better on a 15 Big Ones set. Either way though, it's cool, and I'm glad to be getting the track on the new set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 26, 2021, 05:51:52 PM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.

Glad it's not something untoward, weird or sinister. I hate those things. With Iconic in charge now, surely we've seen the end of that type of crap.

Disappointing though about the sliding date. I'll be okay with it though if it's happened in order to facilitate a concurrent blu-ray audio release, or a live video or something else super-cool like that. If it's just like they don't want this coming out too close to a John Lennon, or George Harrison release or whatever - not happy!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 26, 2021, 07:06:13 PM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.

Glad it's not something untoward, weird or sinister. I hate those things. With Iconic in charge now, surely we've seen the end of that type of crap.

Disappointing though about the sliding date. I'll be okay with it though if it's happened in order to facilitate a concurrent blu-ray audio release, or a live video or something else super-cool like that. If it's just like they don't want this coming out too close to a John Lennon, or George Harrison release or whatever - not happy!

My guess is it's either being moved to accommodate extra vinyl pressings from better than expected pre-sales... or that the powers that be think a late summer release is the best way to get the best of both worlds when it comes to some fans buying a "summer" (late summer, but still a summer month) BBs product, while also having its existence still be in recent memory for other potential purchasers when it comes time for a holiday gift near the end of the year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 26, 2021, 07:34:30 PM
Hoping it’s all linked to pre-sales demand. FWIW, I’ve been searching regularly on sites closer to my country than going the US Amazon route, with several listing the set but none yet to have a date or price. Perhaps the algorithms pick this up and the powers that be have decided to increase the run so the suppliers worldwide have stock.
I’ve no knowledge of the business of these releases, but just tossing it in the mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 27, 2021, 12:11:22 AM
It's August 27th, folks.

Nothing untoward, weird, or sinister -- just a scheduling thing, as is commonplace.
I promise, a ton of cool stuff coming up.

Get pumped.

Thank you Howie -

but are you sure that the delay isn't a consequence of Mike Love having rewritten the booklet notes, in secret and in the last minutes? This kind of thing does happen sometimes, I was told.

It also explains the gap between online and physical release dates.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on June 27, 2021, 05:13:22 AM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.

I kinda like the idea of having the live tracks over the years included. Honestly I was kinda hoping Dylan's More Blood, More Tracks set was gonna use live tracks on that one to demonstrate how the songs have changed over the years on stage.

I will say though, the inclusion of a live 1976 version of "Back Home" is odd. I get that "Back Home" was recorded during the Sunflower sessions, hence it's inclusion. However, while the 1963 version and the 15 Big Ones version are very similar, the Sunflower era version is quite different, perhaps due to the creative mind of one Alan Jardine. Now granted, this Sunflower era version does have the wailing "back home, I spent my summer" part, and that definitely does tie it closer to the 1976 live version. But still, altogether a peculiar choice, and one that would of course fit better on a 15 Big Ones set. Either way though, it's cool, and I'm glad to be getting the track on the new set.

Quite by accident I found this post from C-man a few years back.


Speaking of lyrical differences, has anyone here heard the live version from '76 as sung by Al (at the shows for which Brian was not present)?  It's hilarious in that Al changed part of it to reflect a summer in the inner city, stealing hubcaps and such.  Been a few years since I heard it last, so I can't quote him verbatim without going downstairs and digging out the old cassettes, but it's really funny.

Perhaps the inclusion of the '76 track is due to it containing a lead by Alan, with changed lyrics. Did Al deliver something which was closer to the '70 version? This would explain it's inclusion.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BeachBoysCovers on June 27, 2021, 02:05:55 PM
And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Steve Latshaw on June 28, 2021, 06:57:08 AM
<<Thank you Howie -
but are you sure that the delay isn't a consequence of Mike Love having rewritten the booklet notes, in secret and in the last minutes? This kind of thing does happen sometimes, I was told.
It also explains the gap between online and physical release dates.>>

I would think, coming from Howie, "..nothing untoward, weird or sinister..." means just that.  Nothing untoward, weird or sinister.

No reason to question him further.

Take his word for it. And relax.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 28, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
<<Thank you Howie -
but are you sure that the delay isn't a consequence of Mike Love having rewritten the booklet notes, in secret and in the last minutes? This kind of thing does happen sometimes, I was told.
It also explains the gap between online and physical release dates.>>

I would think, coming from Howie, "..nothing untoward, weird or sinister..." means just that.  Nothing untoward, weird or sinister.

No reason to question him further.

Take his word for it. And relax.

Oh, Steve, I was writing in jest here... referring of course to stories from 1996 and 1997.

I don't think Howie wasn't entirely sure or serious.

Thanks for commenting anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonoraDick on June 29, 2021, 07:28:47 AM
And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this?

No, it mustn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on June 29, 2021, 10:43:36 AM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.


Maybe their pushing the release date back in order to change the cover art. :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on June 29, 2021, 02:48:01 PM
That’s a pretty odd choice to promote the set ... a 15 Big Ones-era live track w the horns, etc? Not ‘69-‘71 era, and not really one of their better live performances or periods for live shows either IMO.


Maybe their pushing the release date back in order to change the cover art. :lol

Maybe they're pushing it back to coincide with some massive announcement of the foreshadowed 60th anniversary stuff.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on June 29, 2021, 05:56:35 PM
So thankful to all for the hard work and I can't wait to get my copies...

But... what a long, strange and ridiculous trip this has been


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 29, 2021, 10:46:44 PM
So thankful to all for the hard work and I can't wait to get my copies...

But... what a long, strange and ridiculous trip this has been

With this band it could never be anything less


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 30, 2021, 03:16:49 AM
So thankful to all for the hard work and I can't wait to get my copies...

But... what a long, strange and ridiculous trip this has been

With this band it could never be anything less

How true.

Did I ever think, at age 15 (when I truly became the aficionado that I still am), that I'd be here, and be reading about the Feel Flows set, and the 60th anniversary of the Beach Boys?

That was 47 years ago  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on June 30, 2021, 07:05:57 AM
And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this?
Preparing for filming another season of Big Shot maybe?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 30, 2021, 08:59:33 AM
And once again, it must be asked, where is John Stamos in all of this?

No, it mustn't.

 :lol

Conversations like this one are of the utmost importance.

If you happen to like Monty Python, that is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on July 01, 2021, 04:22:43 AM
[OK... I'll bite]

"That was never five minutes just now!!!!!"


Title: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: delsboy on July 01, 2021, 11:31:39 AM
Feel Flows delayed till 8-26, what gives.


Title: Re: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: as1972 on July 01, 2021, 11:38:14 AM
Howie Edelson has stated this much. People are speculating manufacturing delays or whatever.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26791.msg672979.html#msg672979


Title: Re: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: delsboy on July 01, 2021, 11:40:59 AM
I am sorry I didn't see that, I have diabetic eye problems, hope you are not made at me for not being aware like you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on July 01, 2021, 11:50:58 AM
Covid has caused a lot of physical media manufacturing delays from my experience.


Title: Re: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: UEF on July 01, 2021, 12:13:16 PM
Hence the long delays and absence of stock on Amazon. Looks like they were onto something.

I thought it seemed a bit soon from the announcement.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 01, 2021, 12:40:09 PM
FYI: The "Feel Flows Delayed" topic was merged into the existing "Feel Flows" topic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows delayed till 8-26
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on July 02, 2021, 02:33:39 PM
Covid has caused a lot of physical media manufacturing delays from my experience.

Yeah, warehouses in general haven't recovered. There's huge discrepancies between demand and supply right now. I work for Starbucks and we run out of product so quickly and when we get a supply shipment, we have no idea if we're going to get everything we need. And I think the combination of low pay, poor working conditions, and lack of good healthcare has caused a shortage in warehouse employees too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on July 02, 2021, 07:42:24 PM
Is the delay on physical only?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 03, 2021, 03:21:38 AM
I have to come back to that live version of "Susie Cincinnati" (is that how you spell it....?). I see the guitar and to a lesser extent the lead vocal have that strange echo or reverb sound that was used so heavily on the 70s live tracks of "Made in California". Was that the way the Beach Boys used it for those shows? I have to say that it really takes the pleasure out of "It's about Time" and "Wild Honey" from MiC imo. It's not as bad on "Susie ..." but I hope they keep it that way for the other live tracks.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 03, 2021, 10:10:45 AM
Is the delay on physical only?

No. The dates on digital versions have been changed now,


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on July 04, 2021, 12:29:17 AM
Is the delay on physical only?

No. The dates on digital versions have been changed now,

Yes; my own local record retailer changed to August 27 for the 5CD set a couple of days ago.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on July 05, 2021, 12:44:32 PM
I expect that the next announcement will be that we have to subscribe to Disney Plus to hear the music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: humanoidboogie on July 06, 2021, 01:31:54 PM
I expect that the next announcement will be that we get to hear another track from the box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 06, 2021, 02:21:54 PM
Although not a recent interview, this one fits regarding "Feel Flows" as Brian talks about some music from that era.


Brian Wilson Remembers: An In-Depth Interview with the Beach Boys’ Resident Genius

https://bestclassicbands.com/brian-wilson-interview-kubernik-7-3-21/?fbclid=IwAR0qaq5mZttvtAiSB98Al-TeQS09EcqIfp8idazTuXLSVvwMX2nQdiRBkSw


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on July 08, 2021, 02:17:08 AM
Shame with the delay as the group's music is usually more popular in summertime. Hopefully won't affect sales too much!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 09, 2021, 08:07:04 AM
Shame with the delay as the group's music is usually more popular in summertime. Hopefully won't affect sales too much!

I wonder how much effect the summer theme would have on a set like this anyway, considering the target audiences who would buy the deluxe editions of the set are more invested and longer-term fans than those who don't know the band's background history. The music they were making in 1970-71 had nothing to do with their earlier "fun in the sun" vibes, in fact they were trying to reinvent themselves and be more progressive in their music and live shows more than trying to connect with the summertime vibe crowd. It would be nice to get as many new listeners, but you have to wonder how many fans who may own one or two of the greatest hits comps and that's it are going to go all out for the deluxe editions of this or any other set.

When all this was announced I thought it would be a holiday season release around November to get the gift-buying and "Prime Day" type of crowds into it too, but I guess the summer vibe does carry over into those decisions based on the band's name alone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on July 09, 2021, 01:03:57 PM
Shame with the delay as the group's music is usually more popular in summertime. Hopefully won't affect sales too much!

I wonder how much effect the summer theme would have on a set like this anyway, considering the target audiences who would buy the deluxe editions of the set are more invested and longer-term fans than those who don't know the band's background history. The music they were making in 1970-71 had nothing to do with their earlier "fun in the sun" vibes, in fact they were trying to reinvent themselves and be more progressive in their music and live shows more than trying to connect with the summertime vibe crowd. It would be nice to get as many new listeners, but you have to wonder how many fans who may own one or two of the greatest hits comps and that's it are going to go all out for the deluxe editions of this or any other set.

When all this was announced I thought it would be a holiday season release around November to get the gift-buying and "Prime Day" type of crowds into it too, but I guess the summer vibe does carry over into those decisions based on the band's name alone.

The summer vibe only goes so far for the rest of the planet ... down here it's bloody freezing today.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on July 10, 2021, 03:28:51 AM
I expect that the next announcement will be that we get to hear another track from the box set.

And a random one, at that.

This just in, Surf's Up acapella mix now up on YouTube, from other sources. Sounds yummy! There was a booted version of this a couple of years back, in much poorer quality, which had an extra section in the tag + studio chatter at the end, but the extra section featured a prominent sour note, which may have been why they faded it earlier on the release.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 10, 2021, 05:12:21 AM
I expect that the next announcement will be that we get to hear another track from the box set.

And a random one, at that.

This just in, Surf's Up acapella mix now up on YouTube, from other sources. Sounds yummy!

It appears to finally have been officially released on Amazon and Apple Music. The Acapella on Youtube is just the version accidentally released on Qobuz, "remastered" by the uploader.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on July 10, 2021, 06:50:22 AM

COMMENT:   I don't know what all the fuss is about, but you will find an acapella version of Surf's Up in Part Two of my book Recording The Beach Boys -- first published 15 years ago.  It's a vocal-only mix I pulled many years ago. The book is still available for reading at another message board.   ~swd



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 10, 2021, 01:48:54 PM
- delete -


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2021, 03:18:36 PM
I keep seeing a two cd Japanese import of Feel Flows that allegedly has exclusive bonus tracks listed on Ebay. Any idea what the "exclusive" tracks are?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 11, 2021, 06:37:29 PM
I keep seeing a two cd Japanese import of Feel Flows that allegedly has exclusive bonus tracks listed on Ebay. Any idea what the "exclusive" tracks are?

Disc 1
+ Sunflower Promo 1
Disc 2
+ Surf's Up Promo

It looks like these tracks are "hidden" - but may appear following the album remasters, rather than at the end of the disc. It's all pretty unclear to me.
This info gleaned from various retailers websites.

Eg. https://diskunion.net/rock/ct/detail/1008322706

Of course these tracks will also appear on the 5 CD set anyways!

Seems like it's a bit of marketing deception from the Japanese??? [No offense to anyone out there - love Japan!]


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: joe_blow on July 14, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Amazon Canada has the 5 CD set being released on July 23rd still Possibly just later updating their site?

Does anyone know if the vinyl sets will come with a download card?

Thanks!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 15, 2021, 01:11:03 PM
Guess the PR is starting to roll...


(https://shop.recordcollectormag.com/rc/images/rc521.jpg)

https://recordcollectormag.com/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on July 16, 2021, 04:08:34 AM
"an in-depth article about the fabulous music the Boys made without their de facto leader as he became increasingly absent following the relative commercial failure of his 1966 masterpiece, Pet Sounds."

I forgot that Brian had little do with Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, is co-writer on only 7 of 12 songs on Sunflower. For whatever reason this post-Pet Sounds mythology about Brian still exists. I guess headlines aren't as flashy without the name Pet Sounds in them?

Outside of that, I am stoked that the guys are getting some much deserved credit for their creative work where Brian wasn't at the helm. I can't wait for this set!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 19, 2021, 09:57:28 PM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on July 20, 2021, 12:34:15 AM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on July 20, 2021, 12:39:25 AM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.

Found it. Interesting. aside from the lyric change, it's also very dry. Nice to hear that Rhythm King (Go Go setting) soloed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on July 20, 2021, 02:12:33 AM
Four star review by Andrew Male in the latest Mojo. Most interesting bit for me: "Won't You Tell Me is an engulfing romantic melodrama akin to Please Let Me Wonder ... it appears here in two versions: as a lavish, chiming Brian and Carl duet; and as a solo Brian demo, with control room interjections from his father that only enhance the pathos". He also more keen on the alternative lyrics to Til I Die than Peter Ames Carlin.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 20, 2021, 05:44:56 AM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.

Found it. Interesting. aside from the lyric change, it's also very dry. Nice to hear that Rhythm King (Go Go setting) soloed.

Interestingly, it's not the mix that will be on the box (which clocks in at around 5 minutes).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on July 20, 2021, 05:58:33 AM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.

Found it. Interesting. aside from the lyric change, it's also very dry. Nice to hear that Rhythm King (Go Go setting) soloed.

Interestingly, it's not the mix that will be on the box (which clocks in at around 5 minutes).

Perhaps an extra two minutes of the Rhythm King?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 20, 2021, 06:11:15 AM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.

Found it. Interesting. aside from the lyric change, it's also very dry. Nice to hear that Rhythm King (Go Go setting) soloed.

Interestingly, it's not the mix that will be on the box (which clocks in at around 5 minutes).

Perhaps an extra two minutes of the Rhythm King?

IIRC an article has already described it as being essentially the same (as I read it) to the Alternate Mix on Endless Harmony. So opening with the instruments building up.

EDIT: It's the Uncut article, which states "A stretched-out version of the august “’Til I Die”, with a lingering bass and vibraphone intro, attempts to inject Brian’s existential crisis with a misplaced feelgood factor."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: king of anglia on July 20, 2021, 08:57:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on July 20, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Guess the PR is starting to roll...


(https://shop.recordcollectormag.com/rc/images/rc521.jpg)

https://recordcollectormag.com/



Got it, and its a very good read HOWEVER the opening Paragraph didn't fill me with great hope as it stated it's 40 Years since SU was released  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 20, 2021, 04:21:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on July 20, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
New article on FF, with comments from Alan Boyd and Mark Linett:

'FEEL FLOWS' -- THE BEACH BOYS RE-IMAGINED THIS SUMMER
http://www.sunnysouthnews.com/blog/2021/07/20/feel-flows-the-beach-boys-re-imagined-this-summer/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on July 20, 2021, 05:48:28 PM
New article on FF, with comments from Alan Boyd and Mark Linett:

'FEEL FLOWS' -- THE BEACH BOYS RE-IMAGINED THIS SUMMER
http://www.sunnysouthnews.com/blog/2021/07/20/feel-flows-the-beach-boys-re-imagined-this-summer/


Oh yeah.....👍

According to the producers, they hope the upcoming set does well, so they can continue creating boxes like “Feel Flows.”

“There’s still some amazing material in the vaults. We would love the opportunity to share it with everybody.”



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on July 20, 2021, 08:19:54 PM
Looks like the alternate lyric version of Till I Die has leaked on youtube.

I'd love to verify this, but I can't find it.

Found it. Interesting. aside from the lyric change, it's also very dry. Nice to hear that Rhythm King (Go Go setting) soloed.

It must be the mix that was on the Reprise Bonus tracks CDs that showed up at a California music store a number of years back.  That’s the mix I would have preferred being on Feel Flows - the extended mix with alternate lyrics is a Frankenstein creation that didn’t exist in 69-71.

Interestingly, it's not the mix that will be on the box (which clocks in at around 5 minutes).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on July 22, 2021, 02:39:58 AM
New article on FF, with comments from Alan Boyd and Mark Linett:

'FEEL FLOWS' -- THE BEACH BOYS RE-IMAGINED THIS SUMMER
http://www.sunnysouthnews.com/blog/2021/07/20/feel-flows-the-beach-boys-re-imagined-this-summer/


Oh yeah.....👍

According to the producers, they hope the upcoming set does well, so they can continue creating boxes like “Feel Flows.”

“There’s still some amazing material in the vaults. We would love the opportunity to share it with everybody.”



FUNKY PRETTY BOX: 1972 - 1974 SESSIONS CONFIRMED  :thud

(jokes, but obviously that's the next big one)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on July 22, 2021, 02:40:25 AM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on July 22, 2021, 04:08:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o

Missed it ... it's been taken down already,  damn.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 22, 2021, 02:57:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o

Missed it ... it's been taken down already,  damn.

.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on July 22, 2021, 03:30:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o

Missed it ... it's been taken down already,  damn.

.

Whatever you guys are talking about, could you share with the rest of us, please?? Did we all miss something incredible?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on July 22, 2021, 05:37:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o

Missed it ... it's been taken down already,  damn.

.

Whatever you guys are talking about, could you share with the rest of us, please?? Did we all miss something incredible?
It was an upload of an alternate version of The Trader, the ending jam from Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, and an alternate version of In My Room.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on July 23, 2021, 12:15:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60SsCN7UE
Where on earth did that come from???   :o

Missed it ... it's been taken down already,  damn.

.

Whatever you guys are talking about, could you share with the rest of us, please?? Did we all miss something incredible?

Sounded like a "Trader" demo, different vocal performance, no 2nd section. Not the best sound quality but really cool. Also extended flute jam at end of WiBNtLA, pretty nice (the extended version on FF will feature it), and the early version of In My Room which I believe was on the GV box set. Here today, Lei'd in Maui....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 28, 2021, 09:04:45 AM
Posted by the Beach Boys' Facebook account:

Friday we are releasing not one, but TWO tracks off the #FeelFlows box set. Any guesses on which ones?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on July 29, 2021, 09:38:56 AM
The two tracks are "This Whole World - Alternate Ending" and "Surf's Up - A Cappella". They are now available on Spotify here in Australia, it being after midnight here and us being quite near the International Date Line. The rest of the world should get them as their clocks tick over.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on July 29, 2021, 09:58:44 AM
The Surf's Up a cappella would seem to be straightforwardly the vocal track from the 1971 version. This Whole World has a different vocal take for both Carl and Brian, though up to the ending the only obvious difference is that Carl sings "full of different people" rather than "lots of different people" and "ooh, here comes another day" rather than "now hear comes another day". At the very end though, rather than the a cappella tag, there's a quite different vocal arrangement designed to bring the song to a climax along with the end of the instrumental track. It's obviously great to hear, and the whole track is beautifully mixed, but the changes that were made on the released version were for the better.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on July 29, 2021, 10:13:35 AM
Thanks for the description William, I'm looking forward to hearing them


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on July 29, 2021, 05:50:56 PM
OK the box set got delayed and I just lost interest..  was burned out

Just heard the new singles... excitement is back to 200%

That ending is absolutely incredible, my god


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on July 29, 2021, 10:43:52 PM
The alternate This Whole World is up on YouTube. It is absolutely terrific, has an easygoing, relaxed lead vocal with different phrasing and a couple of different lyrics, different-style backing vocals near the end and the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold. The best FF nugget yet released!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 30, 2021, 01:21:24 AM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on July 30, 2021, 04:30:04 AM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on July 30, 2021, 04:55:59 AM
The alternate This Whole World is up on YouTube. It is absolutely terrific, has an easygoing, relaxed lead vocal with different phrasing and a couple of different lyrics, different-style backing vocals near the end and the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold. The best FF nugget yet released!

'the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold'   SPOT ON!!   


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Aomdiddlywalla on July 30, 2021, 05:02:52 AM
The alternate This Whole World is up on YouTube. It is absolutely terrific, has an easygoing, relaxed lead vocal with different phrasing and a couple of different lyrics, different-style backing vocals near the end and the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold. The best FF nugget yet released!

'the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold'
Oh yes!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on July 30, 2021, 05:49:29 AM
The alternate This Whole World is up on YouTube. It is absolutely terrific, has an easygoing, relaxed lead vocal with different phrasing and a couple of different lyrics, different-style backing vocals near the end and the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold. The best FF nugget yet released!

Very thankful they did not end up going with this cheeseball ending.  The a capella tag in the final version always gave me chills.  This ending sounds more at home capping an episode of The Love Boat instead.  Still it's fascinating to listen to.  Can't wait for this release to come out!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on July 30, 2021, 11:57:06 AM
The alternate This Whole World is up on YouTube. It is absolutely terrific, has an easygoing, relaxed lead vocal with different phrasing and a couple of different lyrics, different-style backing vocals near the end and the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold. The best FF nugget yet released!

'the close is pure '60s Sunshine Pop gold'   SPOT ON!!   


Agreed completely


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 30, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


That's cool. Also nice that we can now connect these two things 'officially'.



The released "This whole World"'s ending is perfect and one of the most powerful moments in the Beach Boys' canon imo. It gives the song something to go out on. The alternate ending - after one listen - is very nice but doesn't round up the song. It sounds like an unfinished thing. It was definitely the right decision to use the acapella tag.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on July 30, 2021, 12:21:31 PM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


That's cool. Also nice that we can now connect these two things 'officially'.



The released "This whole World"'s ending is perfect and one of the most powerful moments in the Beach Boys' canon imo. It gives the song something to go out on. The alternate ending - after one listen - is very nice but doesn't round up the song. It sounds like an unfinished thing. It was definitely the right decision to use the acapella tag.

The 'alternate ending' was devised specifically for use in a commercial a year later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on July 30, 2021, 02:00:48 PM
Love this.

Can't wait for the next 4 weeks to pass - my experiments with a DeLorean have stalled-!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on July 31, 2021, 05:26:19 AM
Whoa, that was unexpected! I didn't check the time of the track beforehand, but I was thinking it'd be the extended jam we've heard about.

Pretty wild how they even accomplished making this ending. They must've had to go into the multi's and re-record a lot of the instruments to follow the new chords.

Sorry if it's been spoken about already, but Mr. Desper, if you're reading this, do you remember recording this bit? It seems like a lot of effort went into matching the original sounds.

Also - not sure I'm hearing Brian in the blend - seems to me the ending is a Bruce creation?

The alternate lead vocal is sweet. I wonder if that's an earlier outtake, or if it was re-cut for the commercial.

Mr. Linett, if you're reading - this sounds like it could be a Frankenstein mix, or is this what was on the multis as is?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on July 31, 2021, 09:11:21 AM

Pretty wild how they even accomplished making this ending. They must've had to go into the multi's and re-record a lot of the instruments to follow the new chords.

Sorry if it's been spoken about already, but Mr. Desper, if you're reading this, do you remember recording this bit? It seems like a lot of effort went into matching the original sounds.


The track at the end is not a re-recording, it's just what was on the tape after the master cuts off to go a capella.  There's a big drum fill without any other instruments (thus the opportunity for Bruce to reharmonize here) and then I think they actually play another verse, but I might be misremembering that part.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on July 31, 2021, 10:45:16 AM
The track at the end is not a re-recording, it's just what was on the tape after the master cuts off to go a capella.  There's a big drum fill without any other instruments (thus the opportunity for Bruce to reharmonize here) and then I think they actually play another verse, but I might be misremembering that part.

I see, very interesting!

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something, but how does that explain the G / Cm / F progression at 1:29? Is the instrumental here a different take from the original (or spliced in from a different section in the instrumental take)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on July 31, 2021, 10:54:14 AM

Pretty wild how they even accomplished making this ending. They must've had to go into the multi's and re-record a lot of the instruments to follow the new chords.

Sorry if it's been spoken about already, but Mr. Desper, if you're reading this, do you remember recording this bit? It seems like a lot of effort went into matching the original sounds.


The track at the end is not a re-recording, it's just what was on the tape after the master cuts off to go a capella.  There's a big drum fill without any other instruments (thus the opportunity for Bruce to reharmonize here) and then I think they actually play another verse, but I might be misremembering that part.

Yes and no. The track as recorded went into a drum fill and continued through another cycle and a half of the whole progression before falling apart, but that's not what was used here. They copied the tape, kept the drums and lead guitar, wiped other instruments, and added new bass and glockenspiel onto that second bridge/chorus section out.

The alternate lead vocal tracks were on the original tape, copied with the rest. I guess Mark used them in this mix to make it more of a full 'alternate' package.

There's apparently no Brian here - seems to just be Bruce (times three), Carl (times two) and Mike stacked on six parts (unless one of those is actually Al). Bruce has his arranging fingerprints all over this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on July 31, 2021, 01:12:27 PM
Thanks to Joshilyn and SM for their insights. Bruce, eh? Explains why it comes off that little bit too gooey.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 01, 2021, 12:32:42 AM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


That's cool. Also nice that we can now connect these two things 'officially'.



The released "This whole World"'s ending is perfect and one of the most powerful moments in the Beach Boys' canon imo. It gives the song something to go out on. The alternate ending - after one listen - is very nice but doesn't round up the song. It sounds like an unfinished thing. It was definitely the right decision to use the acapella tag.

I'm not saying that this ending is superior to the official one by any means, not even close. Just that it is interesting and excellent in its own right.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 01, 2021, 01:42:24 AM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


That's cool. Also nice that we can now connect these two things 'officially'.



The released "This whole World"'s ending is perfect and one of the most powerful moments in the Beach Boys' canon imo. It gives the song something to go out on. The alternate ending - after one listen - is very nice but doesn't round up the song. It sounds like an unfinished thing. It was definitely the right decision to use the acapella tag.

I'm not saying that this ending is superior to the official one by any means, not even close. Just that it is interesting and excellent in its own right.


I didn't mean to suggest that you was saying this. Just wanted to add the thoughts that came to my mind when listening to the song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 02, 2021, 03:46:26 AM
Do you guys think that the alternate version of add some music is the one with the original lyrics?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 02, 2021, 04:25:00 AM
Do you guys think that the alternate version of add some music is the one with the original lyrics?

I believe it was one of 30 second snippets last year. It does have the original lyrics


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 02, 2021, 05:21:49 AM
Do you guys think that the alternate version of add some music is the one with the original lyrics?

I believe it was one of 30 second snippets last year. It does have the original lyrics
Oh interesting, I didn't listen to the snippets as it tend to ruin the first listening experiences for me so I missed out on all of that haha. I'm very much looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the original lyrics


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 02, 2021, 06:05:41 AM
Do you guys think that the alternate version of add some music is the one with the original lyrics?

I believe it was one of 30 second snippets last year. It does have the original lyrics
Oh interesting, I didn't listen to the snippets as it tend to ruin the first listening experiences for me so I missed out on all of that haha. I'm very much looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the original lyrics

Judging by the snippet, it'll be exactly the same mixing as the version that has gone around for the past 15 odd years (hard panned lead vocal and all). But it'll at least be in high quality finally :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rerun on August 02, 2021, 01:15:02 PM
Interestingly, this alternate ending is one of the only BB songs I can think of that has a true ending and doesn't fade out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 03, 2021, 01:06:48 AM
Is that ending to "This whole World", which I haven't heard yet, the same they played on that one commercial?

I believe so, this is the alternate tag described


That's cool. Also nice that we can now connect these two things 'officially'.



The released "This whole World"'s ending is perfect and one of the most powerful moments in the Beach Boys' canon imo. It gives the song something to go out on. The alternate ending - after one listen - is very nice but doesn't round up the song. It sounds like an unfinished thing. It was definitely the right decision to use the acapella tag.

I'm not saying that this ending is superior to the official one by any means, not even close. Just that it is interesting and excellent in its own right.


I didn't mean to suggest that you was saying this. Just wanted to add the thoughts that came to my mind when listening to the song.

I'm glad that's settled, now we'll have world peace. :p


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 03, 2021, 06:14:11 AM
Interestingly, this alternate ending is one of the only BB songs I can think of that has a true ending and doesn't fade out.

I can think of loads. The discussion got me thinking about fadeouts though, and some googling turned up the following article which happens to mention Caroline No.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/09/the-fade-out-in-pop-music-why-dont-modern-pop-songs-end-by-slowly-reducing-in-volume.html


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 03, 2021, 10:37:37 AM
Interestingly, this alternate ending is one of the only BB songs I can think of that has a true ending and doesn't fade out.

I can think of loads. The discussion got me thinking about fadeouts though, and some googling turned up the following article which happens to mention Caroline No.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/09/the-fade-out-in-pop-music-why-dont-modern-pop-songs-end-by-slowly-reducing-in-volume.html

Great article but the knee-jerk, reactionary pedant in me must point out the error in this statement:

Quote from: The above article
or the bass flutes that take unexpected prominence at the end of “Caroline, No.

It's actually one concert C flute, two alto flutes, and one bass flute.... 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 03, 2021, 10:50:30 AM
As Carl once said, they put a lot of work into their tags


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 03, 2021, 01:05:43 PM
Anybody know why wouldn't it be nice to live again aren't on the boxset?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 03, 2021, 01:17:17 PM
Anybody know why wouldn't it be nice to live again aren't on the boxset?

It is on the boxed set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 03, 2021, 03:24:01 PM
Anybody know why wouldn't it be nice to live again aren't on the boxset?

It is on the boxed set.
I must be blind haha. I checked again after your answer and there it was on cd4. That's one of the songs I look forward to the most with the new mix


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 04, 2021, 08:36:46 PM
Cancelled by 2cd from amazon .. going to do it the old fashioned way... Tower Records


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 05, 2021, 07:01:23 AM
So apparently no one wants to talk about the other track that just got released. I have a few questions though about Surf's Up - A Cappella.

Was the entire vocal track for the first movement recorded in 1971? Who, if anyone, sings on it apart from Carl? And where exactly did "bygone, bygone" come from? Does it appear on anything that was recorded in 1966/67? Could it possibly have been an idea someone came up with in 1971, and if so who?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 05, 2021, 07:23:35 AM
Al is on the tag, A Childrens Song, and that tag is AWESOME! I think the bygone bygone, sounds like it could be a female....maybe Marilyn Wilson? Always wondered who that was singing it too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 05, 2021, 07:48:45 AM
All of the vocals in the first half of the song were recorded in 1971.

'Bygone' is Carl and Carl doubling himself with a whisper; unclear who invented the part.

'Domino' harmonies are Bruce and Carl.

'Are you sleeping' harmony is Brian.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 05, 2021, 08:56:44 AM
Thanks, SM. One of those "domino" harmony vocals (Carl's or Bruce's?) could have shattered a window.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 05, 2021, 09:31:24 AM
So apparently no one wants to talk about the other track that just got released. I have a few questions though about Surf's Up - A Cappella.

Was the entire vocal track for the first movement recorded in 1971? Who, if anyone, sings on it apart from Carl? And where exactly did "bygone, bygone" come from? Does it appear on anything that was recorded in 1966/67? Could it possibly have been an idea someone came up with in 1971, and if so who?

Possibly fewer are talking about it because the recording data on the song has been known for a long time. Plus, a vocals-only track on this song did leak like 15+ years ago.

Not saying it's not worth talking about; it's one of the most amazing songs of their career, and this is one of the most impressive vocals one could possibly isolate.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 05, 2021, 10:04:58 AM
Another track up on Spotify: Slip On Through - Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro. Nothing too amazing - basically the Sunflower version with fewer overdubs and a false start take at the beginning.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on August 05, 2021, 06:27:18 PM
So cool to hear Brian's inimitable detuned piano still in use buried in this mix of Slip On Through!   :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 06, 2021, 04:58:36 AM
Thanks, SM. One of those "domino" harmony vocals (Carl's or Bruce's?) could have shattered a window.

I believe it's Bruce's harmony you're referring to. That man's vocal talents are astounding at times.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 06, 2021, 05:42:38 AM
So cool to hear Brian's inimitable detuned piano still in use buried in this mix of Slip On Through!   :hat

Wow. Oh man this is such an amazingly cool version.

It's one of those revelations where as soon as I heard it isolated on this track it was like I somehow knew it was there all along, that Brian Wilson piano vibe that you hear on the wild honey album, but in the Sunflower final album mix it's buried and not as prominent so it comes as a wonderful surprise to hear it like this.

I'm looking forward to hearing so many more wonderful surprises like that throughout the set, I am pumped!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cristian Kiper on August 06, 2021, 06:19:20 AM
This version is about 4.7% slower than the released version, so it seems the track was sped up for release, like Caroline, No.

EDIT: Just noticed the MiC a cappella mix is also slower, so this is nothing new... for some reason listening to the instrumental track made it that much obvious to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 07, 2021, 02:56:02 AM
Another track up on Spotify: Slip On Through - Alternate 1969 Mix With Session Intro. Nothing too amazing - basically the Sunflower version with fewer overdubs and a false start take at the beginning.


Man, those backing vocals !!!!!   :o :o :o


Here's the youtube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwDwJWRrkvU


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 07, 2021, 02:38:51 PM
YESSS was hoping this alternate version was the one they put on the set. IMO a better version than the released version. Those bg vocs blow me away!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: waketheworld on August 08, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
I think that this version would have been a hit!  Great melody, driving percussion, fantastic lead vocal...the background vocals are sublime.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 09, 2021, 02:18:41 PM
 Okay, about 2 weeks to go now - unless my maths or memory is off.

Starting to think that I can let myself get a preliminary level of excitement here. No further delays in sight!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 10, 2021, 10:18:14 AM
I think that this version would have been a hit!  Great melody, driving percussion, fantastic lead vocal...the background vocals are sublime.


In 1970 the Beach Boys could've released some of the greatest songs of their career (which in fact they did) and they wouldn't get a hit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 10, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
Hello,

As a result of limited availability for the order release of the "Feel Flows" The Sunflower & Surfs Up Sessions 1969-1971, we've cancelled the item from the following order and you haven't been charged:

204-5786767-0530740

We’re sorry for the inconvenience caused.

Regards,

Customer Service Department
Amazon.co.uk

B A S T A R D S  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SloopJohnB on August 10, 2021, 10:54:41 AM
Hello,

As a result of limited availability for the order release of the "Feel Flows" The Sunflower & Surfs Up Sessions 1969-1971, we've cancelled the item from the following order and you haven't been charged:

204-5786767-0530740

We’re sorry for the inconvenience caused.

Regards,

Customer Service Department
Amazon.co.uk

B A S T A R D S  ::)

Same here...  :-[


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 10, 2021, 11:29:54 AM
Please Amazon France don't let me down  :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 10, 2021, 11:41:41 AM
I'm furious and we should be given answers


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 10, 2021, 12:04:47 PM
I'm furious and we should be given answers


MAYBE HOWIE CAN CHIME IN (PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 10, 2021, 12:23:05 PM
Cancelled by 2cd from amazon .. going to do it the old fashioned way... Tower Records
Tower Records? You mean they are back as more than just an online store?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 10, 2021, 12:36:44 PM
Cancelled by 2cd from amazon .. going to do it the old fashioned way... Tower Records
Tower Records? You mean they are back as more than just an online store?

They're online only since the end of last year as far as I know too...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 10, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
Cancelled by 2cd from amazon .. going to do it the old fashioned way... Tower Records
Tower Records? You mean they are back as more than just an online store?

We are lucky to have two actual tower records shops in Dublin, Ireland


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 10, 2021, 01:02:43 PM
Cancelled by 2cd from amazon .. going to do it the old fashioned way... Tower Records
Tower Records? You mean they are back as more than just an online store?

We are lucky to have two actual tower records shops in Dublin, Ireland

That's news to me! Especially considering they declared bankruptcy years ago and only came back as an online seller last November, at least in the US. Are the stores' signs yellow with red lettering in Dublin like the old Tower shops? I practically lived at Tower's 3-story shop on Newbury and Mass Ave in Boston in the 90's, I miss them.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 10, 2021, 01:07:12 PM
They are the classic Tower Records stores. They somehow survived in Ireland. They do great business


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 10, 2021, 05:01:55 PM
The towers on Newbury in Boston was tremendous!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 10, 2021, 06:48:18 PM
The towers on Newbury in Boston was tremendous!

The best! Great memories there. Spent a boatload of cash at that place too.  :lol  I did win the Today/Summer Days 2-fer when they did a Sunday night music trivia contest, with a regular priced CD being the prize. Great book and magazine section on the first floor, that's where I also bought Look Listen Vibrate Smile.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 11, 2021, 01:31:29 AM
My Amazon UK order also cancelled. Very unhappy!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tidepool Interlude on August 11, 2021, 05:07:56 AM
Same here. Cancelled.

Is this Amazon's way of hiking up the price in a week of so and me not getting my 'Price Guarantee'?

Fantastic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on August 11, 2021, 05:39:59 AM
The towers on Newbury in Boston was tremendous!

The best! Great memories there. Spent a boatload of cash at that place too.  :lol  I did win the Today/Summer Days 2-fer when they did a Sunday night music trivia contest, with a regular priced CD being the prize. Great book and magazine section on the first floor, that's where I also bought Look Listen Vibrate Smile.

Today/Summer Days 2-fer was the first CD I ever bought.  It was hard for future CDs to be of the caliber of that first purchase.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 11, 2021, 05:53:03 AM
Same here. Cancelled.

Is this Amazon's way of hiking up the price in a week of so and me not getting my 'Price Guarantee'?

Fantastic.

Yes, I had a great price guarantee, and I won't be re ordering any time soon through Amazon

As I have no record shop anywhere near me, I suppose I'll just be streaming this set. A real shame for those who worked hard on this. Sales are going to be hit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tidepool Interlude on August 11, 2021, 06:24:33 AM
Same here. Cancelled.

Is this Amazon's way of hiking up the price in a week of so and me not getting my 'Price Guarantee'?

Fantastic.

Yes, I had a great price guarantee, and I won't be re ordering any time soon through Amazon

As I have no record shop anywhere near me, I suppose I'll just be streaming this set. A real shame for those who worked hard on this. Sales are going to be hit.

For what it's worth, Greg, I just argued with Amazon customer service for over an hour and they (very) reluctantly agreed to honour my price guarantee if and when it comes back in stock. I did have to speak to a manager though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 11, 2021, 07:16:10 AM
Same here. Cancelled.

Is this Amazon's way of hiking up the price in a week of so and me not getting my 'Price Guarantee'?

Fantastic.


Yes, I had a great price guarantee, and I won't be re ordering any time soon through Amazon

As I have no record shop anywhere near me, I suppose I'll just be streaming this set. A real shame for those who worked hard on this. Sales are going to be hit.

There own fault


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on August 11, 2021, 07:46:38 AM
So apparently no one wants to talk about the other track that just got released. I have a few questions though about Surf's Up - A Cappella.

Was the entire vocal track for the first movement recorded in 1971? Who, if anyone, sings on it apart from Carl? And where exactly did "bygone, bygone" come from? Does it appear on anything that was recorded in 1966/67? Could it possibly have been an idea someone came up with in 1971, and if so who?

Possibly fewer are talking about it because the recording data on the song has been known for a long time. Plus, a vocals-only track on this song did leak like 15+ years ago.

Not saying it's not worth talking about; it's one of the most amazing songs of their career, and this is one of the most impressive vocals one could possibly isolate.

COMMENT:  All these questions about the recording of Surf's Up are answered in my book Recording The Beach Boys.  Also an A Cappella of Surf's Up vocals in in the book/study-video that I made about 50 years ago, but put in the book about 15 years ago.
Bygone, Bygone is a multi-word overdub of 1971 (mind-twister) and is on the original lyric sheet.
~swd




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 11, 2021, 07:58:42 AM
Same here. Cancelled.

Is this Amazon's way of hiking up the price in a week of so and me not getting my 'Price Guarantee'?

Fantastic.

Yes, I had a great price guarantee, and I won't be re ordering any time soon through Amazon

As I have no record shop anywhere near me, I suppose I'll just be streaming this set. A real shame for those who worked hard on this. Sales are going to be hit.

For what it's worth, Greg, I just argued with Amazon customer service for over an hour and they (very) reluctantly agreed to honour my price guarantee if and when it comes back in stock. I did have to speak to a manager though.

Thanks, I'll give that a try and mention it's been honoured for other people.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on August 11, 2021, 11:29:21 AM
Removed ~swd




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on August 11, 2021, 12:04:57 PM

Pretty wild how they even accomplished making this ending. They must've had to go into the multi's and re-record a lot of the instruments to follow the new chords.

Sorry if it's been spoken about already, but Mr. Desper, if you're reading this, do you remember recording this bit? It seems like a lot of effort went into matching the original sounds.


The track at the end is not a re-recording, it's just what was on the tape after the master cuts off to go a capella.  There's a big drum fill without any other instruments (thus the opportunity for Bruce to reharmonize here) and then I think they actually play another verse, but I might be misremembering that part.

Yes and no. The track as recorded went into a drum fill and continued through another cycle and a half of the whole progression before falling apart, but that's not what was used here. They copied the tape, kept the drums and lead guitar, wiped other instruments, and added new bass and glockenspiel onto that second bridge/chorus section out.

The alternate lead vocal tracks were on the original tape, copied with the rest. I guess Mark used them in this mix to make it more of a full 'alternate' package.

There's apparently no Brian here - seems to just be Bruce (times three), Carl (times two) and Mike stacked on six parts (unless one of those is actually Al). Bruce has his arranging fingerprints all over this.

COMMENT:  I noticed your question to me.   I must say I don't know what release you are discussing, but you should know that if you have access to the multi-track you can pretty much make the song do anything. It's like editing of a movie; a love scene can be edited as romance or rape. In my book, I lead with the a cappella of Surf's Up followed in beat by the original song, but you could lead with a guitar lick or drum roll or any tracks or sub-mix of tracks within the multi-track. . . you can change the structure or architecture or personality or impression or etc. if you have access to the multi-track. ~swd 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 11, 2021, 12:31:33 PM
I've kinda lost interest in this set now. I suppose the plan was to build up anticipation, as they slowly release tracks for streaming, but in my case it's gone from a "must buy" to "if i happen to be in a cd store in the next few months and see it, i might buy it".
Other parts of life are more important right now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 11, 2021, 01:12:20 PM
I've kinda lost interest in this set now. I suppose the plan was to build up anticipation, as they slowly release tracks for streaming, but in my case it's gone from a "must buy" to "if i happen to be in a cd store in the next few months and see it, i might buy it".
Other parts of life are more important right now.

It has been a marathon, for sure, but there are quite a few bits that might grab your attention again when it hits the shelves. I'm talking about things that aren't just an alternate mix or whatever, but songs you haven't heard at all before. I'm not saying you need to be a religious zealot over this set, but my feeling is that it delivers a little more than the usual copyright extension releases we've had in years gone by. For starters, it offers a substantial book.

Hang in there! :police:


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on August 11, 2021, 03:55:54 PM
With Amazon UK cancelling orders willy-nilly, does anyone know of a safe bet to buy the 5 CD box set from over here? Thanks


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on August 11, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
Don’t post forever and then double post!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 11, 2021, 04:40:32 PM
With Amazon UK cancelling orders willy-nilly, does anyone know of a safe bet to buy the 5 CD box set from over here? Thanks
I'll most likely get mine on ebay.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on August 11, 2021, 05:04:26 PM
Cheers.
£120 cheapest at the moment but assume more will become available closer to release. Whenever that may be!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 11, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Cheers.
£120 cheapest at the moment but assume more will become available closer to release. Whenever that may be!


My Amazon Pre-Order for the 5 CD Set was £ 74 , before they cancelled it  >:D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 11, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
I've kinda lost interest in this set now. I suppose the plan was to build up anticipation, as they slowly release tracks for streaming, but in my case it's gone from a "must buy" to "if i happen to be in a cd store in the next few months and see it, i might buy it".
Other parts of life are more important right now.

Other parts of life are always more important, but nothing could diminish my appetite for this particular set, barring nuclear war & the ensuing winter of discontent. This will not avail U.K. fans I suppose, but Import CDs is offering it for 88 bucks + $4.00 shipping. Sorry to hear about the orders being cancelled, I hope at least amazon.fr comes through.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on August 12, 2021, 01:21:14 AM
With Amazon UK cancelling orders willy-nilly, does anyone know of a safe bet to buy the 5 CD box set from over here? Thanks
HMV?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 12, 2021, 06:09:08 AM
With Amazon UK cancelling orders willy-nilly, does anyone know of a safe bet to buy the 5 CD box set from over here? Thanks
HMV?

Sold out now, online at least.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 12, 2021, 09:34:07 AM
'Til I Die - A Cappella is on Spotify either now or later today, depending on your time zone.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 12, 2021, 09:36:02 AM
I think I'll just keep it on repeat all day.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on August 12, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
I've kinda lost interest in this set now. I suppose the plan was to build up anticipation, as they slowly release tracks for streaming, but in my case it's gone from a "must buy" to "if i happen to be in a cd store in the next few months and see it, i might buy it".
Other parts of life are more important right now.

I’m impressed - you must have an interesting life.  For someone like me who has no life nothing is more important and more eagerly anticipated than the release of this box set!,


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 12, 2021, 12:46:43 PM
Well a rather nice Feel Flows Box Set T-Shirt being fashioned by Christian Love in this vid BUT I WOULD RATHER HAVE THE SET PLEASE ( Unlikely at this Junction for us UK Fans )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ankxfDTSWS4


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: harveyw on August 12, 2021, 02:15:44 PM
As an avowed never-use-Amazon-er, I've always found SpeedyHen to be super-reliable, and almost as cheap. Looks as if they pay their tax bill too! They have the set available for pre-order at under £85 right now, with free UK shipping. Though I'm making no promises.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 12, 2021, 03:49:10 PM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: BBB on August 12, 2021, 04:07:52 PM
As an avowed never-use-Amazon-er, I've always found SpeedyHen to be super-reliable, and almost as cheap. Looks as if they pay their tax bill too! They have the set available for pre-order at under £85 right now, with free UK shipping. Though I'm making no promises.

SpeedyHen it is. Never even heard of them before....and still ordered from them! Pure desperation.
Thanks for all the replies concerning the problems with UK orders.
Here’s hoping availability isn’t an issue once released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on August 12, 2021, 07:58:09 PM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful
Where is this teaser that you speak of?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 12, 2021, 09:15:01 PM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful
Where is this teaser that you speak of?

David Beards latest "good vibrations" podcast

Around 40 or 42 minutes in


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 12, 2021, 10:06:04 PM
I've kinda lost interest in this set now. I suppose the plan was to build up anticipation, as they slowly release tracks for streaming, but in my case it's gone from a "must buy" to "if i happen to be in a cd store in the next few months and see it, i might buy it".
Other parts of life are more important right now.

I’m impressed - you must have an interesting life.  For someone like me who has no life nothing is more important and more eagerly anticipated than the release of this box set!,
Well, my dad died earlier this year; that's kind of changed a lot of my focus.
Also, as a working musician, scrambling to get gigs now that things are opening up again. And they might shut down just as fast again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 13, 2021, 12:07:36 AM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful
Where is this teaser that you speak of?

David Beards latest "good vibrations" podcast

Around 40 or 42 minutes in

Wow wow wow. Thank you for sharing that. Just wow.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 13, 2021, 04:24:36 AM
Wow thanks for sharing that tip on behold the night. That was amazing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: maggie on August 13, 2021, 07:44:45 AM
As an avowed never-use-Amazon-er, I've always found SpeedyHen to be super-reliable, and almost as cheap. Looks as if they pay their tax bill too! They have the set available for pre-order at under £85 right now, with free UK shipping. Though I'm making no promises.

Ironically, the vast majority of Speedy Hen's business is actually conducted through Amazon, where they are one of the larger-volume third-party media sellers -- alongside behemoths like Chalky's, Rarewaves, MovieMars, ImportCDs, and Dodax/Nagiry. (Dodax and Nagiry appear to be the same company as they always have the identical prices and inventory, and ship out of the same address in Bern, Switzerland.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 13, 2021, 07:48:30 AM
Behold the Night does indeed sound lovely, albeit in short snippet from.

I love the interplay between the synth and the harpsichord, with Dennis's youthful, double tracked vocal floating over the top.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on August 13, 2021, 08:34:31 AM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful
Where is this teaser that you speak of?

David Beards latest "good vibrations" podcast

Around 40 or 42 minutes in


https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly90aGViZWFjaGJveXMucG9kYmVhbi5jb20vZmVlZC54bWw/episode/dGhlYmVhY2hib3lzLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tLzgyNTdhOTk1LWUxODctM2MxNy04N2VlLTg2MGI1NTYzNzc0NA

43:50

Wooooooooooow, soooooooo beautiful!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 13, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
THAT is incredible. I cannot wait to hear more from this set!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 13, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
That teaser of 'behold the night" is just beautiful

Wow! Dennis was on a whole other level at this time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: waketheworld on August 13, 2021, 07:17:49 PM
I thought I had heard ever song Dennis ever recorded, but I never heard that.  Sounds quite beautiful.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 13, 2021, 08:44:47 PM
Some other URLs for the podcast:

Podbean
https://thebeachboys.podbean.com/e/good-vibrations-episode-39-%e2%80%94-feel-flows-box-set-discussion-with-alan-boyd-1628648504/

Apple
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-vibrations-a-beach-boys-program/id1313106797?i=1000531662477


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 14, 2021, 01:22:25 AM
That snippet reminds me of "Tug of Love". Looking forward to hearing the whole song


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 14, 2021, 03:12:40 AM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 14, 2021, 03:39:52 AM
Wow thanks for sharing that tip on behold the night. That was amazing

Spine-tinglingly terrific! No wonder certain other band members were supposedly envious of his skilllz at around that time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 14, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

Steamboat is one of my all time favorite beach boys songs though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 14, 2021, 07:10:13 AM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

Steamboat is one of my all time favorite beach boys songs though.

I love that song dearly. I think beach boys history would be a lot different (in a good way) had Dennis gotten his songs on Surf’s Up - what a phenomenally powerful album it could have been.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 14, 2021, 01:57:33 PM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

Steamboat is one of my all time favorite beach boys songs though.

I love that song dearly. I think beach boys history would be a lot different (in a good way) had Dennis gotten his songs on Surf’s Up - what a phenomenally powerful album it could have been.

I guess when we hear the long version of "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" we might have a better perspective on the track sequencing debate that occurred at the time, but having dropped the song from Surf's Up it has always floored me that it didn't come up for consideration for Carl & The Passions. I can see that it's a new band by then, and a different project, but that song was screaming out to be released.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 14, 2021, 04:39:34 PM
This is how the band always did things, once Brian wasn’t running the show.  They’d have 20 songs to pick from for an album. Seven would be really tremendous. Seven would be ok. Six would be fairly bad.  The album would include 3 from group A, 5 from group B and 4 from group C. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 14, 2021, 05:59:01 PM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

Steamboat is one of my all time favorite beach boys songs though.

I love that song dearly. I think beach boys history would be a lot different (in a good way) had Dennis gotten his songs on Surf’s Up - what a phenomenally powerful album it could have been.

I guess when we hear the long version of "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" we might have a better perspective on the track sequencing debate that occurred at the time, but having dropped the song from Surf's Up it has always floored me that it didn't come up for consideration for Carl & The Passions. I can see that it's a new band by then, and a different project, but that song was screaming out to be released.


Honestly I think it might have fit even better on So Tough


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 14, 2021, 06:26:44 PM
Nice extra Brian falsetto on the 'Til I Die tag.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on August 14, 2021, 09:13:38 PM
Podcast sheds some interesting light on what MIGHT have been one reason for the delay/halt in the project.  Alan mentions how they went through several iterations of the set in terms of sequencing the tracks, and the final track sequencing selection came about after input from “the group.”  The final selection is similar to what they did with Made in California, and we know who was behind that.  So perhaps - this is all speculation of course - the initial sequence of the albums with bonus tracks following including a capella, instrumental mixes, finished outtake songs and unfinished demos and Dennis tracks did not meet with a certain member’s approval, and the live versions and finished outtakes following the albums, with the demos, unfinished Dennis tracks and outtake songs on the fifth disc was just what this follicularly challenged member wanted to sign off on the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 15, 2021, 05:43:21 AM
Podcast sheds some interesting light on what MIGHT have been one reason for the delay/halt in the project.  Alan mentions how they went through several iterations of the set in terms of sequencing the tracks, and the final track sequencing selection came about after input from “the group.”  The final selection is similar to what they did with Made in California, and we know who was behind that.  So perhaps - this is all speculation of course - the initial sequence of the albums with bonus tracks following including a capella, instrumental mixes, finished outtake songs and unfinished demos and Dennis tracks did not meet with a certain member’s approval, and the live versions and finished outtakes following the albums, with the demos, unfinished Dennis tracks and outtake songs on the fifth disc was just what this follicularly challenged member wanted to sign off on the set.

Yeah.. Damn it Stamos!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 15, 2021, 05:54:10 AM
Well as we all know Mike has always been a stickler for song sequencing in concert so it could well be.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 15, 2021, 07:33:07 AM
This is how the band always did things, once Brian wasn’t running the show.  They’d have 20 songs to pick from for an album. Seven would be really tremendous. Seven would be ok. Six would be fairly bad.  The album would include 3 from group A, 5 from group B and 4 from group C. 

That's a really great way to explain it! And yet, somewhat in their defense, the seven tremendous tracks would sound like they came from two or three or four completely different bands. (Though in your hypothetical, the 12 tracks that actually were chosen likely have the same problem.)  :lol  And we probably won't agree even amongst ourselves which A-list tracks should have made the cut.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 16, 2021, 06:17:18 AM
Podcast sheds some interesting light on what MIGHT have been one reason for the delay/halt in the project.  Alan mentions how they went through several iterations of the set in terms of sequencing the tracks, and the final track sequencing selection came about after input from “the group.”  The final selection is similar to what they did with Made in California, and we know who was behind that.  So perhaps - this is all speculation of course - the initial sequence of the albums with bonus tracks following including a capella, instrumental mixes, finished outtake songs and unfinished demos and Dennis tracks did not meet with a certain member’s approval, and the live versions and finished outtakes following the albums, with the demos, unfinished Dennis tracks and outtake songs on the fifth disc was just what this follicularly challenged member wanted to sign off on the set.

There was undoubtedly plenty of planning and back-and-forth regarding sequencing, etc.

But issues regarding track selection or sequencing of tracks was *not* the reason behind that stall/delay that required fans to rally and lobby for the set's release last year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on August 16, 2021, 08:12:33 AM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 16, 2021, 10:56:40 AM
I love "Only With You" -- another DW song that makes a perfect wedding song like "Forever"!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Join The Human Race on August 16, 2021, 03:00:47 PM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".


I think Holland seems like there is no Dennis since he does not sing the leads on his songs. I really like all of Holland; I'm trying to pick out Dennis voice on that album. Is he doing backup vocals on Steamboat and Only With You? I actually can't tell.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on August 16, 2021, 03:12:14 PM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".


I think Holland seems like there is no Dennis since he does not sing the leads on his songs. I really like all of Holland; I'm trying to pick out Dennis voice on that album. Is he doing backup vocals on Steamboat and Only With You? I actually can't tell.

Dennis is the bass vocal on steamboat and he sings the second half of the song the but I think he’s doubled by Carl for that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 16, 2021, 10:06:10 PM

Mike won't like this one - long article on Dennis and half page review of Feel Flows set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on August 16, 2021, 11:57:47 PM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".


I think Holland seems like there is no Dennis since he does not sing the leads on his songs. I really like all of Holland; I'm trying to pick out Dennis voice on that album. Is he doing backup vocals on Steamboat and Only With You? I actually can't tell.

Dennis is the bass vocal on steamboat and he sings the second half of the song the but I think he’s doubled by Carl for that.

I can definitely hear his voice on "Steamboat". Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's present in the group vocals on "Big Sur" too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 17, 2021, 02:23:52 PM
Podcast sheds some interesting light on what MIGHT have been one reason for the delay/halt in the project.  Alan mentions how they went through several iterations of the set in terms of sequencing the tracks, and the final track sequencing selection came about after input from “the group.”  The final selection is similar to what they did with Made in California, and we know who was behind that.  So perhaps - this is all speculation of course - the initial sequence of the albums with bonus tracks following including a capella, instrumental mixes, finished outtake songs and unfinished demos and Dennis tracks did not meet with a certain member’s approval, and the live versions and finished outtakes following the albums, with the demos, unfinished Dennis tracks and outtake songs on the fifth disc was just what this follicularly challenged member wanted to sign off on the set.

Yeah.. Damn it Stamos!!

HAHAHAHA! I met Stamos up close once in a behind-the-scenes band context, and what really stuck with me were his perfect teeth, and his shark-like expression as he quickly examined me intently and appraisingly, trying to input the salient data points into his internal hard drive to determine if and how I fit into the overall picture and (probably just my vivid imagination) how I could possibly be of use to him in the future. Follicly challenged, indeed (I know he meant someone else.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 17, 2021, 03:45:49 PM
My box set delayed again..  ahh at least its not cancelled.. yet..

Genuinely will be shocked if it turns up


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 17, 2021, 03:50:34 PM
Mark Linett interview will debut tonight on The Beach Boys talk show.

Should be interesting

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qzz_oUzeijM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qzz_oUzeijM)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 17, 2021, 11:49:35 PM
Shady, I've decided to bus the many miles to my nearest HMV next Friday rather than rely on Amazon or their competitors. This is of course after phoning them the day before to check they have it in stock!

The nice thing is, that is reminiscent of how I obtained the GV set back in '93, through phone calls and lengthy bus travel.

I can then peruse the literature on the return journey to really build the anticipation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 18, 2021, 01:26:39 AM

Mike won't like this one - long article on Dennis and half page review of Feel Flows set.

This looks excellent, the first major article ever on Dennis's early work. I hope I can catch it on the newsstands, I wasn't able to find the Howie Edelson Goldmine issue


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on August 18, 2021, 03:34:26 AM
I've given up trying to buy the 5CD so have ordered the 2CD for £14.99. When Made In California came out I waited a few months, Sainsbury's online sold off their entertainment stock and I got mine half price. Maybe there'll be a repeat of that, meantime UK stock seems to have all gone to reviewers!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Greg Parry on August 18, 2021, 03:45:00 AM
I'm going to be furious if HMV don't have a copy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 18, 2021, 06:30:51 AM
I found the Goldmine issue, am checking daily for the Record Collector issue, and just found the current Shin Dig issue with the 5th Dimension so I at least know my bookstore carrys it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 18, 2021, 10:32:01 AM
Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame :-\

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".


I think Holland seems like there is no Dennis since he does not sing the leads on his songs. I really like all of Holland; I'm trying to pick out Dennis voice on that album. Is he doing backup vocals on Steamboat and Only With You? I actually can't tell.

Dennis is the bass vocal on steamboat and he sings the second half of the song the but I think he’s doubled by Carl for that.

I can definitely hear his voice on "Steamboat". Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's present in the group vocals on "Big Sur" too.

Yes I'm quite sure it's Dennis and Carl doing the "Don't worry Mr Fulton, we'll keep your steamboat going". Not sure if the bass scat singing his Dennis or Mike. I can't really hear Al in the mix either so it could be Dennis and Carl did all the vocals on that one. Carl is way more prominent though. The harmonies are too muddy to really hear the individual voices.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on August 18, 2021, 08:46:35 PM
Yeah who is doing the bass scat vocal? I always go back and forth. I lean toward it being Dennis … but he never sounded like that again.  It sounds unique for Mike as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 19, 2021, 12:18:38 AM
I feel pretty sure that it's Dennis, and can hear a continuity between it and his later bass vocals (the end of River Song and Shortenin' Bread being the two that spring to mind), allowing for his progressing raspiness.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 19, 2021, 04:30:15 AM
Dennis indeed, with the "Mr. Fulton" vocals (I think) being himself, Ricky and Carl.

Dennis is there in the brief Only With You backing vocals. I wanna say the first half of The Trader and California too, but that's harder to judge through only the current mixes.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 19, 2021, 08:16:42 AM
As usual, Friday brings a few new tasters from the boxed set, which you can access now on Spotify if you're in New Zealand/east coast of Australia, or linked there through a VPN. Otherwise they will be there when the clock strikes midnight in your time zone. (ETA: Actually, it may just be available everywhere - I'm able to get it without the VPN in my pre-midnight time zone right now).

One of these is the most exciting so far IMO, namely the remix of San Miguel we heard a glimpse of in that video with Mark Linnell (I think it was) a year or so ago. It's awesome -- miles more powerful than the previously released mix. Among other things, there is a bit of harmony vocal that wasn't on the previous version in the bit between the last chorus and the fadeout section.

The other is Feel Flows - Track & Backing Vocals, which is also great. It gives us a chance to hear the backing vocals unobscured by either the lead vocal or the Leslie effect (or whatever it was) that was applied on the released version. For the first time, you can really hear what's being sung on the chorus ("white puff glistening shadowy glow"), especially when it continues playing after the instrumental track fades out. Also, the instrumental section has just the saxophone with no flute.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 19, 2021, 09:32:33 AM
I feel pretty sure that it's Dennis, and can hear a continuity between it and his later bass vocals (the end of River Song and Shortenin' Bread being the two that spring to mind), allowing for his progressing raspiness.


I'm not sure about it being Dennis. Could be, definitely not Mike imo. Kinda reminds me of the bass vocal on "Pacific Ocean Blues", but that was Greg Jacbson, I think.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 19, 2021, 09:52:48 AM
.....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 19, 2021, 11:06:49 AM
I found the Goldmine issue, am checking daily for the Record Collector issue, and just found the current Shin Dig issue with the 5th Dimension so I at least know my bookstore carrys it.

Which Record Collector issue is this that you speak of?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 19, 2021, 11:09:37 AM
I think it's August, maybe September. Google it just to be sure, but it's not out here in NJ yet.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 19, 2021, 11:12:17 AM
As usual, Friday brings a few new tasters from the boxed set, which you can access now on Spotify if you're in New Zealand/east coast of Australia, or linked there through a VPN. Otherwise they will be there when the clock strikes midnight in your time zone. (ETA: Actually, it may just be available everywhere - I'm able to get it without the VPN in my pre-midnight time zone right now).

One of these is the most exciting so far IMO, namely the remix of San Miguel we heard a glimpse of in that video with Mark Linnell (I think it was) a year or so ago. It's awesome -- miles more powerful than the previously released mix. Among other things, there is a bit of harmony vocal that wasn't on the previous version in the bit between the last chorus and the fadeout section.

The other is Feel Flows - Track & Backing Vocals, which is also great. It gives us a chance to hear the backing vocals unobscured by either the lead vocal or the Leslie effect (or whatever it was) that was applied on the released version. For the first time, you can really hear what's being sung on the chorus ("white puff glistening shadowy glow"), especially when it continues playing after the instrumental track fades out. Also, the instrumental section has just the saxophone with no flute.

Those both sound superb. I'm a little disappointed, probably like most of us here I had always thought it was "white HOT glistening shadowy FLOW" which also fits in better with the supposed (graphic content alert) ejaculation theme, or co-theme, of the tune. "Puff" doesn't quite have the same ring to it, unless you're talking about dragons, marshmallows or Rice Krispies.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 19, 2021, 11:15:01 AM
I think it's August, maybe September. Google it just to be sure, but it's not out here in NJ yet.

Just a general Feel Flows article?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 19, 2021, 11:51:05 AM
Promotion starting!

https://youtu.be/HGhvYTG-Nao


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 19, 2021, 06:22:48 PM
I wonder if we'll get any new interviews with the band together for this release


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on August 19, 2021, 06:43:47 PM
That Feel Flows track and vocals is exquisite!   :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 19, 2021, 07:18:35 PM
I wonder if we'll get any new interviews with the band together for this release

If there are any group interviews, Mike and Bruce need to get their matching Robert Graham striped shirts out of storage and have them cleaned and pressed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 19, 2021, 07:38:26 PM
I wonder if we'll get any new interviews with the band together for this release

If there are any group interviews, Mike and Bruce need to get their matching Robert Graham striped shirts out of storage and have them cleaned and pressed.

😂😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 19, 2021, 07:38:59 PM
That Feel Flows track and vocals is exquisite!   :o

I know!!!

I am so excited


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 20, 2021, 12:43:27 AM
SAN MIGUEL.

Holy hell awwwesome

Thank the music gods above, the band, and Howie, Mark, and Alan.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: chrism1971 on August 20, 2021, 12:47:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0-tjCKf38&t=24s


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 20, 2021, 03:50:17 AM
That Feel Flows track and vocals is exquisite!   :o

It certainly is! The end is insanely great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 20, 2021, 07:27:03 AM
Based on the snippets I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that this set will smash a lot of preconceptions held towards the Beach Boys as being a "surf group".

I think this will do more to open them up to a new audience than the Smile Sessions ever did. And for those who know how much Smile means to me, that is a HUGE revelation.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 20, 2021, 07:27:31 AM
Imo San Miguel is one of the unreleased greats. Superb energy, rocking guitar solo, great arrangment and sublime harmonies. How the hell didn't this make the cut on Sunflower or Surf's Up ???

Replace Tears in the Morning (sorry Bruce) and start side B with San Miguel = near perfect album!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on August 20, 2021, 07:42:40 AM
I have read both the Record Collector (#521) and the Shindig! (#118) cover stories. The RC one must be one of the best articles written lately about the group. The Dennis piece on Shindig! was largely built for archive quotes, but the Feel Flows era on Record Collector is well thought and has exclusive quotes from all the surviving bandmates (most interesting is Al Jardine talking about All This is That or Bruce Johnston on 'Til I Die -shame that they used "Brian"'s words from the WIBN book about that song) although the real attraction are the insights of Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on August 20, 2021, 08:22:36 AM
I have read both the Record Collector (#521) and the Shindig! (#118) cover stories. The RC one must be one of the best articles written lately about the group. The Dennis piece on Shindig! was largely built for archive quotes, but the Feel Flows era on Record Collector is well thought and has exclusive quotes from all the surviving bandmates (most interesting is Al Jardine talking about All This is That or Bruce Johnston on 'Til I Die -shame that they used "Brian"'s words from the WIBN book about that song) although the real attraction are the insights of Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile).

Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on August 20, 2021, 10:20:26 AM
Absolutely jammin' to San Miguel  ;D I can't contain my excitement for Friday!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 20, 2021, 10:50:22 AM
Imo San Miguel is one of the unreleased greats. Superb energy, rocking guitar solo, great arrangment and sublime harmonies. How the hell didn't this make the cut on Sunflower or Surf's Up ???

Jack Rieley's perspective on the track selection for Surf's Up, including the exclusion of San Miguel, is related in the posts from "Beach Head" on this page:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=9651.0

Rieley at first appears to take "credit" for the decision on the grounds that it was "just a hook, not a song" -- whatever the hell that means -- before claiming the decision was "made by Dennis Wilson, with Brian Wilson and Carl Wilson and I supporting him". I personally find it a bit hard to believe that Dennis would have preferred having nothing at all on Surf's Up to San Miguel, but who knows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 20, 2021, 10:59:32 AM
Also quite a vocal reveal on Feel Flow. I think it sounds like Brian laying down a double-tracked sustained vocal during the instrumental/sax segment. Never picked up on that before!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on August 20, 2021, 12:43:12 PM
I have read both the Record Collector (#521) and the Shindig! (#118) cover stories. The RC one must be one of the best articles written lately about the group. The Dennis piece on Shindig! was largely built for archive quotes, but the Feel Flows era on Record Collector is well thought and has exclusive quotes from all the surviving bandmates (most interesting is Al Jardine talking about All This is That or Bruce Johnston on 'Til I Die -shame that they used "Brian"'s words from the WIBN book about that song) although the real attraction are the insights of Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile).

Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix



I'm familiar with the stereo Smiley Smile you did. I love the album in its own twisted way, anyway. Although the original is quite lo-fi, by "not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile" I meant that you said that you did not like the sound of it, technically speaking. That was another thing I liked about the piece: hearing from you and Alan Boyd's experiences as fans.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 20, 2021, 12:51:44 PM
So somewhere along the lines with all of the stuff about this set being moved up for later release I got it in my head that is was due for a late September release. Today I say it was due on Friday and my mind went nuts, I'm so looking forward for this, and instead of having to wait a whole month, as I previously though, it's only one week, AWESOME! ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on August 20, 2021, 01:09:13 PM
I have read both the Record Collector (#521) and the Shindig! (#118) cover stories. The RC one must be one of the best articles written lately about the group. The Dennis piece on Shindig! was largely built for archive quotes, but the Feel Flows era on Record Collector is well thought and has exclusive quotes from all the surviving bandmates (most interesting is Al Jardine talking about All This is That or Bruce Johnston on 'Til I Die -shame that they used "Brian"'s words from the WIBN book about that song) although the real attraction are the insights of Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile).

Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix



I'm familiar with the stereo Smiley Smile you did. I love the album in its own twisted way, anyway. Although the original is quite lo-fi, by "not a fan of the sonics on Smiley Smile" I meant that you said that you did not like the sound of it, technically speaking. That was another thing I liked about the piece: hearing from you and Alan Boyd's experiences as fans.

I was referring to the mono master used for the original release, not the recording


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on August 20, 2021, 01:46:38 PM
Understood.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RealBriefcase on August 20, 2021, 02:49:33 PM
Holy smokes, that new San Miguel mix is great! Especially enjoy how prominent the falsetto vocals on the coda are now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on August 20, 2021, 04:29:55 PM
Based on the snippets I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that this set will smash a lot of preconceptions held towards the Beach Boys as being a "surf group".

I think this will do more to open them up to a new audience than the Smile Sessions ever did. And for those who know how much Smile means to me, that is a HUGE revelation.


Absolutely!

If they get enough airplay - and if they're able to manufacture/produce enough copies......  😔😞🎼🎹🥁🎸


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 20, 2021, 08:17:58 PM
That "Feel Flows" track with backing vox is just astounding!

BTW, what happened to the Big Sur single on YouTube? I went to see it earlier tonight and it had been pulled.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 20, 2021, 09:49:37 PM
That "Feel Flows" track with backing vox is just astounding!

BTW, what happened to the Big Sur single on YouTube? I went to see it earlier tonight and it had been pulled.
It's still there for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 20, 2021, 09:50:10 PM
That "Feel Flows" track with backing vox is just astounding!

BTW, what happened to the Big Sur single on YouTube? I went to see it earlier tonight and it had been pulled.
It's still there for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on August 21, 2021, 05:54:52 AM
That "Feel Flows" track with backing vox is just astounding!

BTW, what happened to the Big Sur single on YouTube? I went to see it earlier tonight and it had been pulled.

It's missing from YouTube Music for me. There's a hole in my BB playlist where it goes, but I'll just fill it in on Friday. ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 21, 2021, 06:56:25 AM
Bit late to the party (been trying to limit computer use, I suffered a concussion 8 days ago) but these are both amazing as others have said. I think Feel Flows almost works better without the flute to be honest.

Didn't realize the set is out Friday. Thought it was the 31st.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 21, 2021, 07:16:55 AM
Bit late to the party (been trying to limit computer use, I suffered a concussion 8 days ago) but these are both amazing as others have said. I think Feel Flows almost works better without the flute to be honest.

Didn't realize the set is out Friday. Thought it was the 31st.
Are you alright?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 21, 2021, 07:46:25 AM
Bit late to the party (been trying to limit computer use, I suffered a concussion 8 days ago) but these are both amazing as others have said. I think Feel Flows almost works better without the flute to be honest.

Didn't realize the set is out Friday. Thought it was the 31st.
Are you alright?

I'm so so lol. Out on workers comp. Went to place the flag out on the gable of the historic house I work at when I slipped and banged the side of my head and shoulder. Been taking it easy since.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 21, 2021, 09:01:35 AM
My local tower records will be receiving stock in all formats

Puts me at ease 😌


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on August 22, 2021, 06:47:32 AM
Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix

Since we're on the topic, I'd like to ask about the intro of the stereo mix of With Me Tonight. Why was a different take used? Missing stems?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 22, 2021, 06:55:21 AM
Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix

Since we're on the topic, I'd like to ask about the intro of the stereo mix of With Me Tonight. Why was a different take used? Missing stems?

Mistake, apparently. It isn't missing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 23, 2021, 06:50:15 AM
Thanks for the positive comments. I think you should check out the stereo mix of Smiley Smile that we did several years ago and perhaps  revaluate the sound of the record. What we also discovered was the mono album had one if not two additional generations  of copies used to create fades and edits which given the production , greatly lowered the quality of the mono mix

Since we're on the topic, I'd like to ask about the intro of the stereo mix of With Me Tonight. Why was a different take used? Missing stems?

Mistake, apparently. It isn't missing.

Never noticed until now, but on closer listening the mono intro sounds like a far stronger take. Goes to show how Brian's discipline in the studio was essential for producing the best sound possible!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 23, 2021, 09:31:04 AM
Happy Feel Flows week  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 23, 2021, 10:51:51 AM
Happy Feel Flows week  ;D

Hard to believe that most of Dennis's early '70s solo work with Daryl Dragon is finally going to see release THIS WEKK, among countless other gems. Reminds me of the week that Made in California was set to come out, with "Wouldn't it be Nice (to Live Again)" about to be heard for the first time. It didn't disappoint and neither will this material, if the snippet of "Behold the Night" played on the Beard/Boyd podcast is any indication.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 23, 2021, 01:21:12 PM
Happy Feel Flows week  ;D

Hard to believe that most of Dennis's early '70s solo work with Daryl Dragon is finally going to see release THIS WEKK, among countless other gems. Reminds me of the week that Made in California was set to come out, with "Wouldn't it be Nice (to Live Again)" about to be heard for the first time. It didn't disappoint and neither will this material, if the snippet of "Behold the Night" played on the Beard/Boyd podcast is any indication.

I am very excited for "behold the night"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 24, 2021, 05:31:25 AM
How does a pre-order sell out?

(https://i.ibb.co/hMMBWyX/Screenshot-20210824-132717-Chrome.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DingDangIsTheGreatestSong on August 24, 2021, 06:15:16 AM
When do you think the BB official store will start shipping? Also some people are paying almost $200 for the 5 CD on eBay...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 24, 2021, 07:54:58 AM
I would guess in the next day or two


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2021, 08:41:12 AM
I've posted the uncut Howie Edelson interview on "Feel Flows" from Rock Cellar in another thread here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27882.0.html


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 24, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Hopefully "seasons in the sun" will be the next single. It would be a missed opportunity to not use that song to grab some causal fans or non fans attention.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 24, 2021, 10:37:41 AM
How does a pre-order sell out?


If HMV was only receiving "x" amount of copies in their allotment from the supplier and sold managed to sell through all of those through preorders; result = SOLD OUT.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on August 24, 2021, 11:59:04 AM
Hopefully "seasons in the sun" will be the next single. It would be a missed opportunity to not use that song to grab some causal fans or non fans attention.

Well, it's certainly coming out this Friday... along with quite a few other songs


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Unreconstructed Wilsonite on August 24, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a particular reason why Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again was excluded from the second disc tracklist?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 25, 2021, 02:00:20 AM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a particular reason why Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again was excluded from the second disc tracklist?

50 year anniversary sequencing dispute??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 25, 2021, 05:14:40 AM
Can’t wait to get my hands on the set! Trying to go pick it up fresh out of the shipping box at the record store first thing Friday! The folks at the store think I’m kinda nuts..


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Seagull Merlin on August 25, 2021, 07:10:10 AM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a particular reason why Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again was excluded from the second disc tracklist?

Maybe it was a case of available space on the disc??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 25, 2021, 07:20:01 AM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a particular reason why Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again was excluded from the second disc tracklist?
Does it really matter on what disc it is, I mean it's still on the boxset?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 25, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
OK just got notice from Amazon.de that my 5CD and 2CD sets have shipped, and are expected on Friday!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 25, 2021, 09:43:13 AM
Is anybody else checking their order status every few hours to see if it's shipped yet? I sure am.  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: roffels on August 25, 2021, 10:14:29 AM
OK just got notice from Amazon.de that my 5CD and 2CD sets have shipped, and are expected on Friday!

Is there content found on the 2CD set not available on the 5 CD set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 25, 2021, 10:39:51 AM
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 2: White Hot Glistening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cu3C05kXQQ


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 25, 2021, 11:07:51 AM
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 2: White Hot Glistening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cu3C05kXQQ


Beautiful! And some footage that I had never seen before


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Unreconstructed Wilsonite on August 25, 2021, 12:05:35 PM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a particular reason why Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again was excluded from the second disc tracklist?
Does it really matter on what disc it is, I mean it's still on the boxset?

Just found it odd, is all - given the inclusion of other unused tracks such as 4th Of July. But space constraints on the CD as suggested by SeagullMartin would make sense


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 25, 2021, 02:21:43 PM
Chapter 2: Awesome - so much new footage - what else are they sitting on? 3.34 footage of Carl singing Long Promised Road!!??

Less than 18 hours to go ... (here in Oz)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on August 25, 2021, 04:45:56 PM
/Users/MHL/Desktop/IMG_2498.jpeg


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 25, 2021, 07:15:15 PM
/Users/MHL/Desktop/IMG_2498.jpeg

Cant figure this out 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 25, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
Chapter 2: Awesome - so much new footage - what else are they sitting on? 3.34 footage of Carl singing Long Promised Road!!??

Less than 18 hours to go ... (here in Oz)

Right on Tony! - the advantages of living close to the International Date Line!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 25, 2021, 08:21:55 PM
/Users/MHL/Desktop/IMG_2498.jpeg

Cant figure this out 😂

Looks like Mark was trying to share an image with us??


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 25, 2021, 08:23:45 PM
Quote
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 2: White Hot Glistening

So we're back to "white hot" now?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 25, 2021, 08:26:42 PM
Quote
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 2: White Hot Glistening

So we're back to "white hot" now?

It was always 'white hot'


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 25, 2021, 08:28:02 PM
Mark's link is missing the front part of the URL.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 25, 2021, 10:22:51 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Vxb4jFc/Screenshot-20210826-061639-Instagram.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/D88XySx/Screenshot-20210826-061633-Instagram.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/nRkm68D/Screenshot-20210826-061645-Instagram.jpg)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 26, 2021, 06:12:43 AM
Are those photos above for sets on sale?

Just got my shipping notice for delivery tomorrow!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 26, 2021, 07:02:23 AM
It's now live on Spotify here in Australia.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on August 26, 2021, 09:30:06 AM
To Howie, Mark, Alan, and all who made this possible over the last couple years...

THANK YOU

I'm sitting here spoiling myself with samples and I cannot believe what I am hearing. This set was definitely worth the wait. Tomorrow will be amazing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on August 26, 2021, 09:43:11 AM
My reserved copy of the five-disc set is apparently sitting in a store less than five miles away... which is great. Not so great is that I'm not allowed to collect it for another 16 hours. But we've all waited this long... a few more hours won't make any difference.

Props to HMV in the UK for making it happen this time (assuming they haven't accidentally reserved the two-disc set for me instead of the five-disker... ;) )

And 'nul points' to Amazon UK for bogging it up big time... again!

Matt



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 26, 2021, 12:04:29 PM
It's now live on Spotify here in Australia.

YouTube Music here in NZ as well. 👍


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 26, 2021, 12:14:30 PM
Chapter 2: Awesome - so much new footage - what else are they sitting on? 3.34 footage of Carl singing Long Promised Road!!??

Less than 18 hours to go ... (here in Oz)

Right on Tony! - the advantages of living close to the International Date Line!!

Except that its 5.00am east coast Oz and my preordered itunes downloads haven't happened yet ... ggggrrrrr ... at least its up on Spotify


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 26, 2021, 01:09:10 PM
Just under 3 hours for me for steaming then off to get the 2cd in the morning from tower.

Thank you so much to all involved.. what an absolute treat.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bossaroo on August 26, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
OK just got notice from Amazon.de that my 5CD and 2CD sets have shipped, and are expected on Friday!

Is there content found on the 2CD set not available on the 5 CD set?

don't believe so. that would just be cruel



Quote
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 2: White Hot Glistening

So we're back to "white hot" now?

It was always 'white hot'

they're clearly singing 'white puff' on the track with backing vocals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slqn2juSrZI


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 26, 2021, 01:57:29 PM
The box set of 5 cd’s is sitting in a record store 35 miles away… I’m gonna be there when they open their doors at 10AM eastern time here in the USA.

The Sunflower album was the one that got me started on the Beach Boys. And Surf’s Up was the first album I bought as a new release…

I’m frantic….


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 26, 2021, 02:05:44 PM
The box set of 5 cd’s is sitting in a record store 35 miles away… I’m gonna be there when they open their doors at 10AM eastern time here in the USA.

The Sunflower album was the one that got me started on the Beach Boys. And Surf’s Up was the first album I bought as a new release…

I’m frantic….

Settle petal ... just know that its everything you expect it to be and more ... now take a valium and chill ... or crack open a bottle of wine


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 26, 2021, 02:25:38 PM
It's now live on Spotify here in Australia.

YouTube Music here in NZ as well. 👍


Not sure if it’s just NZ or zones where it is the 27th, but now officially released on YouTube as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 26, 2021, 03:23:49 PM
Doing my first listen now, finally!!  ;D ;D ;D

Homie, thank you so much! <3


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 26, 2021, 03:27:50 PM
Its up on Amazon Music. Holy Moly!!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 26, 2021, 03:37:43 PM
Marcella acapella YOWZA!
This Whole World extended YOWZA!!
The whole set YOWZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 26, 2021, 03:41:23 PM
Oh Good Lord.
I've. Got. A. Friend.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 26, 2021, 03:47:27 PM
Marcella acapella YOWZA!
This Whole World extended YOWZA!!
The whole set YOWZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOWZA!?

Don't you mean HUBBA HUBBA!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 26, 2021, 03:49:36 PM
Oh Holy Moly, just when you think you know everything Beach Boys this set comes out and blows you out of the bath with the bathwater. Everything about this set is bold, clear and amazing. Look what they did with e.g Soulful Old Man Sunshine! I mean, there's an additional 2 great albums of outakes in addition to Sunflower and Surf's Up. It's literally mind-boggling how creative and productive this group was in 1969/1971! It's crazy that a man of the musical talent Dennis had was never fully allowed or able to share it with the world until POB, by which time it was already getting too late for him.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 26, 2021, 03:50:37 PM
JUST GO STRAIGHT TO DISC 5!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 26, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
JUST GO STRAIGHT TO DISC 5!

Underrated comment right here! Biggest treat Beach Boys fandom will probably ever hear  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 26, 2021, 05:19:54 PM
OK, OK, OK, there are extra series of vocals on My Solution. Oh my Lord.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 26, 2021, 05:20:38 PM
Wowee. Perks of living in Oceania

Highlights for me so far:

- All I Wanna Do acapella
- All the Dennis stuff. I'm Going Your Way, Barbara, & It's a New Day new mixes sound great. Behold the Night, Hawaiian Dream - stunning!! Baby Baby was slightly disappointing though.
- Won't You Tell Me demo with organ with Brian vocal is actually beautiful - that arrangement works great on its own (in a minimalist way like Be Still), and the original lyrics are better.
- Til I Die alt lyrics - obviously not superior, but interesting to hear.

Wonder if the 2019 mix of Going Your Way with the double tracked lead vocal will be available again? Surprised it's not on the set - maybe it'll be on a 'leftovers' type digital release like Sunshine Tomorrow 2.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on August 26, 2021, 07:02:55 PM
Sonically this thing sounds far better than my already high expectations. That bass in My Solution! Wow. I’m floored.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 18thofMay on August 26, 2021, 07:34:35 PM
I really love Before


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 18thofMay on August 26, 2021, 07:36:08 PM
I really love lots of it


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on August 26, 2021, 08:07:46 PM
Looking like all the tracks are just straight available for listen now on the Beach Boys official Youtube. Not listed, but searchable. Tempting not to just dive right in, but I will wait.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on August 26, 2021, 08:18:13 PM
Straight to disc 5. Wow wow wow.

The Surf's Up 1st movement 1971 remake is really odd.
The Soulful Old Man Sunshine 2019 mix sounds *very* different. Was Don Ralke part of the writer credits on the original Endless Harmony release?

A small detail: "Sobra las olas" should actually read "Sobre las olas"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 26, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
Just spent a few hours with headphones on going over just about all of it.

It's nearly too much brilliance

Blown away. Greatest band ever


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 26, 2021, 08:21:44 PM
"It's a new day"  :o


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RealBriefcase on August 26, 2021, 09:29:43 PM
Is it just me or does Soulful Old Man Sunshine have a totally different vocal take? He doesn't say "shunshine" on this one, which seems to against that being the reason why Carl didn't want it out.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 26, 2021, 10:09:11 PM
Hopefully the beginning of a media blitz.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/aug/27/it-was-the-happiest-time-the-beach-boys-on-their-strange-second-coming

With band interviews phoned in.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 26, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
I think my favourite thing here is Old Movie. It was always obvious that setting an orchestra loose on Make It Good was a mistake, but I now feel it was no less so on Cuddle Up.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on August 26, 2021, 11:39:36 PM
I think It’s Natural is one of my favorites here. Should have been finished. I love the vibe and instrumental here.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on August 26, 2021, 11:46:59 PM
One of my favorite bits so far is the backing track of "When Girls Get Together"; it's just pure Brian. The instrumental/bg vocals version of "A Day in the Life of a Tree" is stunning too and "Marcella - a capella" is another highlight.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on August 26, 2021, 11:56:57 PM
Great to read the first series of personal impressions now - and the tempo they're coming in is just so entertaining; it's not often that just hitting the 'refresh page' button makes sense, but now it does seriously so.

I will go purchase the physical 5CD-set later in the day (it's 9 AM here in Holland); and all your posts really whet the appetite, so to speak.

So: keep 'em coming, people!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 27, 2021, 12:04:56 AM
Oh Holy Moly, just when you think you know everything Beach Boys this set comes out and blows you out of the bath with the bathwater. Everything about this set is bold, clear and amazing. Look what they did with e.g Soulful Old Man Sunshine! I mean, there's an additional 2 great albums of outakes in addition to Sunflower and Surf's Up. It's literally mind-boggling how creative and productive this group was in 1969/1971! It's crazy that a man of the musical talent Dennis had was never fully allowed or able to share it with the world until POB, by which time it was already getting too late for him.



Yes, IMO the Dennis material is the clear standout on this set, even amidst so much other wonderful music and mixes. "Ecology", with "All of My Love", the stunning "run, run, river run" section combined with what were previously known on various circulating tapes and boots as "Piano Duets" and the high-pitched "Quad instrumental" is just staggeringly beautiful when it finally puts it all together, as is the "Quadrex session" piece, also sometimes called "Carry Me to the Sea" which was often lumped in with the other fragments, but has now been fleshed out and given its rightful title "Before". "I've Got a Friend" is fragile and lovely, making one fervently wish that Dennis had made it a priority to lay down a vocal. Maybe someone will be brought it to give it a Taylor Hawkins "Holy Man" treatment someday. "Behold the Night" is an absolute gem, at least the first part, "Hawaiian Dream" is music to supremely relax by, but somehow "Old Movie" really brought tears to my eyes, thinking of his beautiful spirit and unfulfilled potential. It's important to try to see that particular glass as half full as much as possible, but he had so much to offer the world and for various reasons his talent didn't see its full fruition. This release really adds a lot to his legacy, as well as being chock-full of amazing remixes and other jewels. Many thanks to Alan, Mark, Howie, Stephen et al for their superb work, and fighting for its release. Just saw in an interview with Boyd and Linett that work on Carl & the Passions, Holland and live early '70s Carnegie Hall sets is already underway!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 27, 2021, 01:11:47 AM

 Many thanks to Alan, Mark, Howie, Stephen et al for their superb work and fighting for its release.
[/quote]

Amen to that!

I haven't been as thrilled about a retrospective Beach Boys release since those wonderful days of SOT boots - that moment of receiving a physical package shipped from Singapore, opening it and rushing to the CD player. This set really does pick up from where SOT boots left off ... 20 plus years and worth the wait to get it right. So excited about the next two years - So Tough, Holland and In Concert. Thrill me. Chill me. Complete me.

Thank gents!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 27, 2021, 01:14:35 AM
God bless Howie, Mark, Alan, Stephen, and everybody else involved. Gods among men. I'm almost in tears over some of this...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 27, 2021, 01:28:33 AM
God bless Howie, Mark, Alan, Stephen, and everybody else involved. Gods among men. I'm almost in tears over some of this...


I've been having "what the f#*k" moments all day ... but that might be the wine ... or that might be the wine ... or that might be the wine ... any way its dark here and I can drink all the wine I want.

PS Mr Desper all the way back then you took it to another level ... thank you.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 27, 2021, 01:37:51 AM
I have a feeling that the live version of Back Home is an edit of more than one performance. I don't know of any time where Brian and Al did a duet like that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 27, 2021, 02:05:43 AM
Does anybody else think that the demo of "Won't You Tell Me" sounds a lot like "Wind Chimes"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on August 27, 2021, 02:16:38 AM
God bless Howie, Mark, Alan, Stephen, and everybody else involved. Gods among men. I'm almost in tears over some of this...


I did find myself crying during "Old Movie". Such a poignant evocation of Dennis's sweetness, his lost years and missed potential really hit me hard in that moment, rare for me. Just noticed that the new mix of WiBNtLA has the backing track brought way up and the vocal pillowed in it, and the extended jam at the end features a hypnotic "live again" chant. Lest anyone think I'm exclusively focused on Dennis's contributions to the set, I'm not. There's so much to love here (Soulful Old Man Sunshine, anyone?) He's just the star of the night IMO.

The extended  'Til I Die with alt. lyrics, This Whole World long version, and so many other highlights. The mixes are all smooth as silk, so listenable and creative. A tour de force, or in other words The Force is strong with this box set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 27, 2021, 02:42:57 AM
I'm not sure my heart can take another set of this magnitude. But I'd happily take that chance. lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 27, 2021, 03:02:48 AM
Bit torn on the new master of Sunflower - the added treble makes the tape hiss really audible on some tracks (probably a gain staging issue from the time it was recorded, of course not really something you can fix just by remastering). It's a brittle sound overall. Funny sounding record down to the way it was engineered I think - it's got a bit of a brittle, plastic-y quality to it at times.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on August 27, 2021, 03:17:28 AM
Looking like all the tracks are just straight available for listen now on the Beach Boys official Youtube. Not listed, but searchable. Tempting not to just dive right in, but I will wait.

Can't wait...too long...

Wow wow wow wow wow!!!!!
💯💯💯🎼🎹🥁🎸

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n76kh6_m1eBHO7MNN7VZh6fTgXJnmx-Wc


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on August 27, 2021, 03:55:01 AM
Anyone know why the Surf's Up album pops up as "Remastered 2009" instead of 2021?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 27, 2021, 04:03:47 AM
Anyone know why the Surf's Up album pops up as "Remastered 2009" instead of 2021?

Seems to be an error, it's definitely a new master. It's probably meant to say 2019.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 04:36:37 AM
Good thing amazon didn't cancel me, my local record store was sold out of the box set, they got 3 copies in and all were gone by noon.

Picked up the 2cd set


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mooger Fooger on August 27, 2021, 04:54:16 AM
This set is more of a revelation to me than any other set released by the band before it (including the Smile sessions). The collective talent is astounding.

THIS is why I am and always will be a fan.

If this doesn't change people's perception about them as being a surf band, I don't know what will.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 27, 2021, 06:00:22 AM
It's out on Spotify in the States.

Skimming through it now for the time being. So amazing to hear Loop de Loop in great quality. Always loved that song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on August 27, 2021, 06:09:39 AM
Oh man... After this 20+ month journey we've all gone on... This is such a surreal listening experience... It's so bittersweet, thinking about what a completely different place I am in my life than when this crazy ride started... There are people who aren't in my life anymore that I spent hours theorizing and prattling into the night about this material and the various delays (like the obsessive fans and music nerds we are) and here I am finally hearing it, but by myself. There's so much personal emotional content intertwined with this incredibly emotional music... This set is special in a way that goes way beyond words...

And I wholeheartedly agree, there's plenty of fantastic material throughout all the discs, but CD5 is sure THE BIG ONE. I remember being in high school (I'm a younger guy) when The SMiLE Sessions box came out, and having not heard most of the circulating boots prior to that, I was totally blown away by every single disc. And even though we've gotten a flood of expanded/deluxe session box sets by classic/legacy acts in my lifetime, this is really the first time an ENTIRE set has left me in awe through each and every disc... The SUNFLOWER LIVE tracks really rock a lot more than I expected... The SURF'S UP BONUS TRACKS are absolutely essential outtakes... Both of the session discs totally exceeded my expectations for dissecting the albums, each one just had me literally head in hand... And I'm a sucker for the a cappella tracks, that's one of the things I was looking forward to most on this set... But CD5 is practically an embarrassment of riches... The Dennis 'suite' is pure magic... And the two 'Carl and the Passions' tracks just get you hyped for what's to come in the future...

I can't give enough thanks to Howie, Mark, Alan... To THE BOYS... To everyone who made this possible...

I'm gonna go out on the limb and say this set is easily (Archival) Album of the Year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on August 27, 2021, 06:29:15 AM
They certainly had more than enough material for one more high quality album in the early 70s. For me, Feel Flows makes it even clearer how the Surf's Up album was, at least to a certain degree, about renewing their image by picking material from the band's '70/'71 sessions that was going to make them appear hip and serious to a rock audience. I've often wondered whether it was a conscious decision to have no love songs on the album, especially after Sunflower, which had lots of them, was such a failure in terms of sales.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 27, 2021, 06:32:54 AM
Brian laughing like a maniac when Maury talks about "Won't You Tell Me" being one of their best vocals since Pet Sounds is both hilarious and unnerving at the same time.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: nts and the drum on August 27, 2021, 06:44:19 AM
Brian laughing like a maniac when Maury talks about "Won't You Tell Me" being one of their best vocals since Pet Sounds is both hilarious and unnerving at the same time.

True dat.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RONDEMON on August 27, 2021, 07:01:02 AM
"Won't You Tell Me" sounds like The Association — and that's a complement!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: GuyO on August 27, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
The mailman dropped off the box earlier this afternoon. I’m halfway through disc 2 and am very happy with the sounds and content so far.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: atroxi on August 27, 2021, 07:31:26 AM
All I can say is that acapella version of Marcella and the extended This Whole World have both taken up residence in my head, rent-free.  8)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 27, 2021, 07:50:01 AM
Oh how I would've wanted vocals on the extended This Whole World


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thatjacob on August 27, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
Bit torn on the new master of Sunflower - the added treble makes the tape hiss really audible on some tracks (probably a gain staging issue from the time it was recorded, of course not really something you can fix just by remastering). It's a brittle sound overall. Funny sounding record down to the way it was engineered I think - it's got a bit of a brittle, plastic-y quality to it at times.
I'm with you completely on that. It's far too compressed, as well. The rest of the box set sounds much better (even surf's up sounds better than Sunflower's new master), but the remastered versions of the albums aren't what I was really interested in in the first place. The outtakes are pretty fantastic. It's taking a while to digest all of the material, but I think I'm just going to make it into a playlist of the previously unreleased tracks (not just new mixes) and listen to it on a drive in a bit.

I was waiting on hearing the new master for sunflower to decide if I should buy that version on vinyl, but the Analogue Productions copy is sitting in my cart now...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on August 27, 2021, 08:57:28 AM
I have a feeling that the live version of Back Home is an edit of more than one performance. I don't know of any time where Brian and Al did a duet like that.


It actually was a duet between Brian and Al, but what they've done here is replaced Brian's live vocal with a studio take from the 15 Big Ones sessions. Here's the original:

https://youtu.be/X4GZHvHbQNI?t=3913


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 08:57:46 AM
Sweet and Bitter is just too good. Mike sounds great.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 27, 2021, 09:09:20 AM
For being a bed resting vegetable Brian sure did much on these sessions  ::)

Jokes aside, Good Time left me a bit in awe, there's something about it that sounds so timeless and modern.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Half Moon Bay on August 27, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
"Won't You Tell Me" sounds like The Association — and that's a complement!


I love that track,it teared me up, it was so unexpected. I don’t know the background or when it was recorded, but it sounds very much like a lost gem. Brian’s vocals and backing, sounds so poignant.  I would like to thank Amazon for not cancelling my order and delivering “Feel Flows”, today earlier than expected! A wonderful, unexpected surprise  :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 27, 2021, 10:05:03 AM
Too much to take in! I guess one word fits for now: Wow.

First impressions, the material from Dennis is amazing. As someone said earlier, Dennis could very well be the star of this box set. I got the feeling going track-by-track that the music was just pouring out of the man at this time, and the inevitable "what if?" aspect come up when you think how different things may have been if more of this music had come out at the time, and people didn't have to wait until 1977 and POB to hear the depth of his talent. Even on the instrumentals, you hear a deep soul flowing in the tracks that in terms of this band could possibly only be matched by that "X Factor" which marks Brian's best productions, that element that draws people in and gives them a sonic hug.

I'm listening through, and what strikes me about many of the tracks is just how non-traditional and experimental these chord progressions are in these songs. They're not doing standard rock chord changes, they're not doing "Blue Moon" doo-wop chords, they're not doing old boogie-woogie patterns as much as they would later...this is very, very progressive songwriting and chord construction for the type of band a lot of people thought these guys were.

"Won't You Tell Me" - Was Brian laughing at Murry's comment or at something else happening in the studio? I couldn't tell. What disturbed me was hearing Murry's voice say "Brian, I'm talking to you" like Brian was 10 or something. I tensed up hearing that, even though that demo is a treat over all.

And what also struck with that demo was hearing Brian using that type of vibrato while singing - More of a controlled crooner type of vibrato that wasn't really his trademark on those soaring 60's leads. Very interesting to hear.

Agreed with "twentytwenty" - So much for Brian being a vegetable and not doing much but lie in bed, right? Again, the proof is on the tapes. Was he as much to the forefront? Of course not, but man his presence is there on these tapes. And how great if not melancholy is it to hear *THAT VOICE* hitting the high notes which would soon disappear entirely from BB's music.

I'll say it again, Cool Cool Water is a masterpiece, and Mike sounds amazing on this. He *owned* that near-whisper, bass-baritone, close-mic'ed sound. The same sound as heard on "Meant For You", where he just gets really close to the mic and hits that range which resonates with the microphone, that's gold right there.

I have to be honest, when it comes to Surf's Up as a recording, I always lean toward the Brian-led vocals as appeared on the '93 box set, "Inside Pop", to a lesser degree the late '67 solo take...so it was interesting to hear them try to graft a BW vocal onto the current tracks. It *could* have worked, but it's a little odd to hear. I like how those takes on the box are less ornate, and can breathe more than the final released mix, which I think is too cluttered and too heavy on falsetto harmony vocals that are distracting. And what was really, really interesting was to hear on attempt where it sounded like they deliberately tried to make the song "heavier" in a rock sense, and it felt like they were trying to rock it up a bit knowing it would be a major release. But cooler heads prevailed I suppose, or maybe I'm just hearing the "rock" in that earlier unused attempt that is more my ears than the actual intent.

Anyway...wow.

There better be Grammy awards for this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 10:29:15 AM


There better be Grammy awards for this.

+1

I'm listening now and wiping away tears. So f*cking good, no words can express.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 10:38:25 AM
For being a bed resting vegetable Brian sure did much on these sessions  ::)

Jokes aside, Good Time left me a bit in awe, there's something about it that sounds so timeless and modern.

Mike really stands out on that track


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on August 27, 2021, 10:57:03 AM
Wow, Brian with the ghost-like whisper on the "Til I Die" alternate lyrics. Never heard that voice from him. You can feel the pain he was feeling when he wrote it. Chilling stuff.

Another "wow" for the "Won't You Tell Me" demo. Just when we thought we heard all of the golden-voice-era lead vocals from Brian, this pops up! When was this recorded? Pre-SOT sale?

Almost everything on this set is magic. I love how Mark stripped down some of the instrumentals for the "track and backing vocals" versions. So cool to finally hear alternate versions of these songs.

And yet I still can't fully make out what Carl's singing at the end of "All I Wanna Do", lol. It's clear that the beginning bit is "If you get lonely in the night..." Anyone decipher what follows?

Many thanks to all involved for putting this amazing set together!!






Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bonnevillemariner on August 27, 2021, 11:01:20 AM
I've never heard much of Dennis' stuff prior to today. That guy had music in his soul! Did the guys sing on his material, or am I hearing a wall of Dennis's?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 11:08:21 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/5x8yjcd/Screenshot-20210827-190407-Instagram.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/C87QF6q/Screenshot-20210827-190415-Instagram.jpg)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 11:15:30 AM
Who is that on 'baby baby'?

Why would they ruin such a good song with awful signing


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 11:29:50 AM
Some highlights so far:

- Add Some Music - Track & Backing Vocals mix... that intro section sounds almost like the 2nd coming of Sloop John B.
So beautiful and Brian at the top of his game, it recalls Pet Sounds backing tracks.

- Forever - Track & Backing Vocals mix... DAMNNNNNNN

- 4th of July ... the section directly before the flute outro, and the flute outro itself - wow. This mix is astonishing.

- My Solution - mindblowing.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 27, 2021, 11:32:27 AM
Who is that on 'baby baby'?

Why would they ruin such a good song with awful signing
Daryl Dragon, perchance? He has a co-writer credit, if the Wikipedia details are to be believed, and the song sounds very much to me like it was made up on the spot.

Speaking of writing credits, Awake is credited to Brian and David Sandler. Whatever became of Floyd Tucker?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on August 27, 2021, 11:41:14 AM
Who is that on 'baby baby'?

Why would they ruin such a good song with awful signing
Daryl Dragon, perchance? He has a co-writer credit, if the Wikipedia details are to be believed, and the song sounds very much to me like it was made up on the spot.

Speaking of writing credits, Awake is credited to Brian and David Sandler. Whatever became of Floyd Tucker?

Too bad they didn't make a descent recording... and more rockers like this!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 27, 2021, 11:56:46 AM
Had to do some phenagling t get my copy of the 5 cd box today, but so glad I did....this is magical!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 27, 2021, 12:01:33 PM
Listening on YouTube while waiting for the set to hit my doorstep, I had to start with Disc 5. This stuff is fantastic!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 27, 2021, 12:29:38 PM
Have a million words to say, but this set blows away even the highest expectations.

Those vocals, beyond words. You think it can't get more powerful and angelic at the same time, but there it is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 27, 2021, 12:38:02 PM
Too much to take in! I guess one word fits for now: Wow.

First impressions, the material from Dennis is amazing. As someone said earlier, Dennis could very well be the star of this box set. I got the feeling going track-by-track that the music was just pouring out of the man at this time, and the inevitable "what if?" aspect come up when you think how different things may have been if more of this music had come out at the time, and people didn't have to wait until 1977 and POB to hear the depth of his talent. Even on the instrumentals, you hear a deep soul flowing in the tracks that in terms of this band could possibly only be matched by that "X Factor" which marks Brian's best productions, that element that draws people in and gives them a sonic hug.

I'm listening through, and what strikes me about many of the tracks is just how non-traditional and experimental these chord progressions are in these songs. They're not doing standard rock chord changes, they're not doing "Blue Moon" doo-wop chords, they're not doing old boogie-woogie patterns as much as they would later...this is very, very progressive songwriting and chord construction for the type of band a lot of people thought these guys were.

"Won't You Tell Me" - Was Brian laughing at Murry's comment or at something else happening in the studio? I couldn't tell. What disturbed me was hearing Murry's voice say "Brian, I'm talking to you" like Brian was 10 or something. I tensed up hearing that, even though that demo is a treat over all.

And what also struck with that demo was hearing Brian using that type of vibrato while singing - More of a controlled crooner type of vibrato that wasn't really his trademark on those soaring 60's leads. Very interesting to hear.

Agreed with "twentytwenty" - So much for Brian being a vegetable and not doing much but lie in bed, right? Again, the proof is on the tapes. Was he as much to the forefront? Of course not, but man his presence is there on these tapes. And how great if not melancholy is it to hear *THAT VOICE* hitting the high notes which would soon disappear entirely from BB's music.

I'll say it again, Cool Cool Water is a masterpiece, and Mike sounds amazing on this. He *owned* that near-whisper, bass-baritone, close-mic'ed sound. The same sound as heard on "Meant For You", where he just gets really close to the mic and hits that range which resonates with the microphone, that's gold right there.

I have to be honest, when it comes to Surf's Up as a recording, I always lean toward the Brian-led vocals as appeared on the '93 box set, "Inside Pop", to a lesser degree the late '67 solo take...so it was interesting to hear them try to graft a BW vocal onto the current tracks. It *could* have worked, but it's a little odd to hear. I like how those takes on the box are less ornate, and can breathe more than the final released mix, which I think is too cluttered and too heavy on falsetto harmony vocals that are distracting. And what was really, really interesting was to hear on attempt where it sounded like they deliberately tried to make the song "heavier" in a rock sense, and it felt like they were trying to rock it up a bit knowing it would be a major release. But cooler heads prevailed I suppose, or maybe I'm just hearing the "rock" in that earlier unused attempt that is more my ears than the actual intent.

Anyway...wow.

There better be Grammy awards for this.

Really get a feeling for the strange relationship between Brian and his father, and this was not long before he died. Murry's voice and manner of talking is so condescending and lacking in sensitivity and it's almost like Brian giggles like a kid in response. Maybe his coping mechanism to bear growing up under the watch of such a - can I say cruel man. Murry's ego also comes through when he states it's the best song they've done in 5 years. Was the last good one perhaps Help Me Rhonda, Murry? Did your efforts as a producer bring out that extra syncopation in Al that finally nailed that record?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mikeyj on August 27, 2021, 02:07:44 PM
Of course I want to say a big thank you to all those involved in making this happen - especially Mark, Alan and Howie and of course Mr. Desper and the Beach Boys themselves!
This album was really the first Beach Boys album I can remember listening to and is a large reason I got hooked as a fan. This set - especially in these days of lockdown - is such a blessing! I have both the larger CD and LP boxes coming but I also bought the hi-res download too and even though I've only listened through once so far it is absolutely worth every cent and more cause I know this is one box I will enjoy for many years to come!

A few quick questions as it has been a while since I've heard some of these rarer tracks but are there group vocals missing on the choruses of Seasons in the Sun and also Sweet and Bitter? I was just expecting to hear a fuller group effort in those parts. As I say, maybe it's just me not remembering correctly. I feel like there might be subtle little things missing on other tracks too as well as many little additions that weren't present before. I just wonder (if I am correct in remembering) if we might see alternate mixes of some of these tracks in a digital only release?

Also interesting to hear the alternate vocal take of Forever including the slight lyric change. I actually got a bit emotional when I got to the Forever track and backing vocals. This music just means so much to me as it does to most of us!
So, again, a heartfelt thank you to those getting this beautiful music to us fans and I look forward to what else we have in store in the coming months and years!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 27, 2021, 02:51:51 PM
My set has arrived! Now to settle in for listening. :)

Some more reviews of FF:

From the Recording Academy / Grammys folks:
Brian Wilson Is A Once-In-A-Lifetime Creative Genius. But The Beach Boys Are More Than Just Him.
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-sunflower-surfs-up-boxed-set-carl-wilson-feature

American Songwriter:
Review: Beach Boys Fans Will Find a Treasure Trove of Rarities in the Expanded Editions of ‘Sunflower’ and ‘Surf’s Up’
https://americansongwriter.com/review-beach-boys-fans-will-find-a-treasure-trove-of-rarities-in-the-expanded-editions-of-sunflower-and-surfs-up



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Beach Boy on August 27, 2021, 03:04:03 PM
Good to see you back, Mikey. I am too very thankful for everyone getting this release done. I have received the 5 CD box set today, hadn't had the time yet to listen to it but will do it first thing tomorrow. Thank you guys again, actually there are some exciting releases coming out this year but this one takes the cake for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Waiting on Rolling Stone and pitchfork reviews


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: El Molé on August 27, 2021, 03:18:32 PM
Of all the box sets, digital releases and outtake releases we’ve had over the years, I have to say that this set really is the most extraordinary release of them all. The alternate mixes, backing track + vocals, and vocals only versions really do show this period to be something of a group vocal peak for the boys. Can any other era compare with the outstanding group vocals during this period?

I sometimes think that I’ve listened to the Beach Boys so much over the years that maybe there isn’t much more for the music to give, but this really is like hearing the music again for the first time. I’m hearing layer upon layer of beautiful new detail in tracks I’ve heard many hundreds of times before - things that were barely audible to me in their full mix presented here and standing up as highlights in their own right.

As a teenager growing up listening to capitol era CD twofers, with everything after 20/20 out of print, I can remember the thrill of hearing a snippet of “All I Wanna Do” whilst watching Endless Harmony and imaging what treasures those 70’s records might hold. I have the exact same feeling hearing the vocals only version of All I Wanna Do here - it is spine tingling. Maybe Pet Sounds represents a peak for Brian as a songwriter, producer, singer and arranger,  but I think this set makes it clear that for the group as a whole this period is their absolute peak (did any other group reach collective highs such as this?)

This whole thing is an utter joy and it is a privilege to be receiving this as a fan. Sometimes the hype and the waiting for releases can eventually lead to anticipated releases being something of an anti-climax, but this surpasses every expectation I held, by a considerable distance. It feels insufficient to say it, but all I can offer is the biggest “thank you” to Alan, Mark, Howie and anyone else involved in this for all that you’ve done to make something so incredible for us. You have presented this outstanding group at their absolute finest here and have created the most incredible showcase for their music. Thank you!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 27, 2021, 03:47:57 PM
It's amazing to me how a new mix can breathe so much life and vivid colour into music one is well acquainted with. So good. I am resisting jumping around from disc to disc. I am going to give this a strait listen from start to finish.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 27, 2021, 04:00:31 PM
Two initial thoughts and a question before I write my music column for likely publication Sept. 4.

1. What life-affirming music.
2. Beatles who?
3. I don't have the box at this point (listening via streaming) so I'd like to know who gets the credit this time for producing Susie Cincinnati. (The Beach Boys as on the single, Brian as on 15 Big Ones or Al as on Best of the Brother Years).
Kudos to all who worked on this box and bringing out the beautiful parts that were previously buried in the music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 27, 2021, 04:05:44 PM
I actually got a bit emotional when I got to the Forever track and backing vocals.
\

Me too.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 27, 2021, 04:12:13 PM
Of all the box sets, digital releases and outtake releases we’ve had over the years, I have to say that this set really is the most extraordinary release of them all. The alternate mixes, backing track + vocals, and vocals only versions really do show this period to be something of a group vocal peak for the boys. Can any other era compare with the outstanding group vocals during this period?

I sometimes think that I’ve listened to the Beach Boys so much over the years that maybe there isn’t much more for the music to give, but this really is like hearing the music again for the first time. I’m hearing layer upon layer of beautiful new detail in tracks I’ve heard many hundreds of times before - things that were barely audible to me in their full mix presented here and standing up as highlights in their own right.

As a teenager growing up listening to capitol era CD twofers, with everything after 20/20 out of print, I can remember the thrill of hearing a snippet of “All I Wanna Do” whilst watching Endless Harmony and imaging what treasures those 70’s records might hold. I have the exact same feeling hearing the vocals only version of All I Wanna Do here - it is spine tingling. Maybe Pet Sounds represents a peak for Brian as a songwriter, producer, singer and arranger,  but I think this set makes it clear that for the group as a whole this period is their absolute peak (did any other group reach collective highs such as this?)

This whole thing is an utter joy and it is a privilege to be receiving this as a fan. Sometimes the hype and the waiting for releases can eventually lead to anticipated releases being something of an anti-climax, but this surpasses every expectation I held, by a considerable distance. It feels insufficient to say it, but all I can offer is the biggest “thank you” to Alan, Mark, Howie and anyone else involved in this for all that you’ve done to make something so incredible for us. You have presented this outstanding group at their absolute finest here and have created the most incredible showcase for their music. Thank you!


VERY beautifully said


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 27, 2021, 04:44:59 PM

And yet I still can't fully make out what Carl's singing at the end of "All I Wanna Do", lol. It's clear that the beginning bit is "If you get lonely in the night..." Anyone decipher what follows?


It's 'If you get lonely in the night I'd come and be with you'


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on August 27, 2021, 04:48:45 PM
It's amazing to me how a new mix can breathe so much life and vivid colour into music one is well acquainted with.

Nitpicking but the Sunflower and Surf's Up albums themselves were just remastered, not remixed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 27, 2021, 04:49:13 PM
Two initial thoughts and a question before I write my music column for likely publication Sept. 4.

1. What life-affirming music.
2. Beatles who?
3. I don't have the box at this point (listening via streaming) so I'd like to know who gets the credit this time for producing Susie Cincinnati. (The Beach Boys as on the single, Brian as on 15 Big Ones or Al as on Best of the Brother Years).
Kudos to all who worked on this box and bringing out the beautiful parts that were previously buried in the music.

It says "Produced by Alan Jardine, Carl Wilson and Brian Wilson"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: smog police on August 27, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
"Won't You Tell Me" - Was Brian laughing at Murry's comment or at something else happening in the studio? I couldn't tell. What disturbed me was hearing Murry's voice say "Brian, I'm talking to you" like Brian was 10 or something. I tensed up hearing that, even though that demo is a treat over all.

I'm getting 'Beauty, Brian I'm talking beauty' from Murry here. He very definitely loves this song!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 27, 2021, 05:14:41 PM
For those who like a good VDPs quote. He mentions the FF period for the group in today’s LA Times.

: “These guys couldn’t get laid in a women’s penitentiary with a fistful of pardons.”

 :lol

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-08-27/beach-boys-surfs-up-sunflower-feel-flows


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Margarita on August 27, 2021, 05:25:11 PM
This got me all farklempt:

"The Beach Boys' catalogue follows you through life, like a musical calendar or diary.  In these confusing days when everyone is desperate for a little rest, a little kindness, and a little peace of mind - The Beach Boys feel like home.  They represent our past, present, and most beautiful key."

Thank you, Howie.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on August 27, 2021, 06:00:35 PM
Listening to Surfs Up and Sunflower on this set I kinda wish they had done new mixes of them. The new mixes sound a whole world better, no high end sharpness and no distortion on vocals.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 27, 2021, 06:48:47 PM
This release of "Awake" is everything I always wished it would be. So beautiful. My jaw is on the floor.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Join The Human Race on August 27, 2021, 06:49:03 PM
Fabulous work everyone, Howie, Mark, Alan, anyone else I missed. I may just be some random poster, but want to know the appreciation for your hard work over the years. I'll peruse over it all the next few days, definitely know what will fuel my morning walk tomorrow. Listening to Sunflower now; man, what a masterpiece. If Pet Sounds is Brian's masterpiece, Sunflower is The Beach Boys' masterpiece. Just wish Dennis would have been represented on the original Surf's Up album. Oh, and that Sunflower didn't bomb.  

Anyway, back to the chauffeur headquarters to smoke and listen more; with headphones like Brian would want.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on August 27, 2021, 07:01:48 PM
What stores are selling this?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 27, 2021, 07:05:56 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FKDzNmQ/Screenshot-20210828-030421-Amazon-Shopping.jpg)

Still battling on the charts all these years later haha


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 07:42:03 PM
Anyone else getting "don't talk put your head on my shoulder" vibes from the bridge of  "long promised road" at 1:22 on the track & background vocals mix?

Damn this set is TOOOOO good.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 27, 2021, 07:48:20 PM
It's amazing to me how a new mix can breathe so much life and vivid colour into music one is well acquainted with.

Nitpicking but the Sunflower and Surf's Up albums themselves were just remastered, not remixed.
I still sometimes hear things I didn't before, and are there longer fades?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 07:51:33 PM
For those who like a good VDPs quote. He mentions the FF period for the group in today’s LA Times.

: “These guys couldn’t get laid in a women’s penitentiary with a fistful of pardons.”

 :lol

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-08-27/beach-boys-surfs-up-sunflower-feel-flows

 :lol :lol :lol

(except Denny)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 27, 2021, 07:54:51 PM
There better be Grammy awards for this.
Not just the Grammy. The Nobel for promoting global harmony.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 08:08:50 PM
"A Day in the Life of a Tree" track & backing vocals


MIND ABSOLUTELY BLOWN


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on August 27, 2021, 08:14:32 PM
Duplicate post... several hours after the fact. weird.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on August 27, 2021, 08:29:34 PM
Having to make do with Spotify until September 14, apparently.

Just wanted to chime in with the massive thanks and appreciation for all involved in making this release possible from its conception (starting in '69) to finally entering the world.

I love hearing all of the new details in the mixes, and I just wanted to mention that I think one of the approaches taken here was not necessarily to make the best possible "new" version but rather make something for those of us who already have the originals embedded in our brains. I'm reminded about the quote about how the stereo Pet Sounds is not meant to replace the mono; same thing here. Hopefully I'm not wrong about that! But I can only imagine how hard it would be to devise so many satisfying new mixes given the wealth (or dearth, in some cases) of material available.

Happy listening, everyone!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 10:07:23 PM
Nice touch of placing "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) to Live Again" after "Til I Die" and "Surf's Up", thus restoring the intention of that song being last in the sequence of SU songs, which Denny was denied.

I have a hunch there are gonna be a bunch of little sweet heartstring-tugging touches like that, just waiting to be discovered in the set (be it sequencing, and many other deliberate choices that were made during mixing or choosing of takes), thanks to tasteful and well-thought-out work by the box's compilers. Great, great work, fellas.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 27, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
This release of "Awake" is everything I always wished it would be. So beautiful. My jaw is on the floor.

Ditto X10000


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on August 27, 2021, 11:46:07 PM
Regarding the Murry/Brian dynamic on the "Won't You Tell Me" demo, am I the only one who kind of think that they are both being deliberately condescending to each other? Murry saying that it was the best thing Brian had sung in five years, and Brian's overly dramatic laugh.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on August 28, 2021, 01:08:57 AM
Any reports on how the vinyl pressings are yet?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 28, 2021, 02:03:31 AM
I listened to some of it on youtube (I will have to wait for the big set, because I need to save some dimes). What I heard is beautiful! What great music - and great work done to present it. Thanks to all involved!

One thing that I am very happy about is that the live cuts don't have this strange delay as they did on the "Made in California" set. The recordings on FF sound great and man how they rocked on "It's about Time". It makes you want a set dedicated to their live performances of the early 70s.




Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 28, 2021, 05:10:20 AM
The importance of this set to my inconsequential existence.

I first became a Beach Boys fan when my brother Tom came into my room in 1970, placed headphones on my noggin, and set to spinning a Warner Brothers sampler LP on my turntable, The Big Ball.  He played This Whole World and that was it!  The band appeared on The David Frost show and I saw them perform Vegetables, Forever and Falling in Love.  He and I went to Bob Hyatt Stereo in Rochester NY and I bought Sunflower.  Didn’t know Brian from Carl.  A year later I bought Surf’s Up on the day it hit the stores, after having heard it previewed on East coast AM radio giant WKBW out of Buffalo NY - they played Student Demonstration Time and Disney Girls several times, overlaying their interjection of “WKBW exclusive” in the midst of each song to keep it from being booted.  So, those two albums got me rolling.

I became very involved with this band - did my two wacky newsletters and made friends all over the world, several of whom have since passed. And I’ve been waitin eagerly, as have we all, for this box set.

I very badly wanted to get this set as soon as the record store opened yesterday.  I had called on the 26th and was told “we have it but can’t sell it till tomorrow”.  Store opens at 10AM, I arrive at 9:30 wearing a Brian T-shirt, looking like an old idiot, but who cares.  Door opens at 10, I go inside - “we don’t have it, try again Monday “.  WHAT????? This store is 35 miles from my home, no big deal, but WAIT TILL MONDAY?  No freaking way!!!

I return home and call every record store reasonably near me.  No dice.  Though, one guy did say “I’m actually listening to the set on Spotify as we talk!”  I finally locate a store who had the 5CD set, asked them to reserve it for me, and headed out on my quest to North Olmsted, Ohio (well I’m goin back this summer, to OHIO).  A scant 260 mile journey! But I’VE GOT TO GET THIS TODAY!!!

I arrive and there is the most beautiful thing I’ve seen in a long time, Feel Flows!  Laid down my cash and went to my car and started with disc 5 and listened to the set on the 4 hour drive home. 

Mind blown!

Mind blown!

Mind BLOWN!!!!!

The highlights are -

EVERYTHING!!!

Thank you to all involved in this.  Thank you thank you thank you!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on August 28, 2021, 05:31:27 AM
"Baby baby":

My favorite from the box: "Baby baby"! Shows they were as good as the Beatles! However, the singing? Are they making fun of disabled people?
Too bad they didn't make a descent recording... and more rockers like this!!

"Behold the night":
My life is almost complete - I've heard the most beautiful song ever: "Behold the night". But oh how I wish the whole song would sound like the beginning of the song instead of wandering off...

I wonder if Mike & Co. will include any of Dennis's songs on the Feel flows world tour...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on August 28, 2021, 07:03:10 AM
I finally locate a store who had the 5CD set, asked them to reserve it for me, and headed out on my quest to North Olmsted, Ohio (well I’m goin back this summer, to OHIO).  A scant 260 mile journey! But I’VE GOT TO GET THIS TODAY!!!

I arrive and there is the most beautiful thing I’ve seen in a long time, Feel Flows!  Laid down my cash and went to my car and started with disc 5 and listened to the set on the 4 hour drive home. 

Mind blown!

The rest of your story is amazing, but THIS^ is truly supporting these guys - and by guys I don’t really mean the band as much as I mean Howie, Mark, and Alan (and others who helped with this set). What a great story!

The wife and I are in the final processes of buying our first home so I’ve had to put any extra money I have towards that…I had preordered the set on iTunes but I really want the physical set so I canceled the pre-order. I plan on getting either the 5 CD or the 4 vinyl set in the coming weeks and listening to it then. I’m leaning toward the vinyl set.

I’m so glad that everyone is enjoying the set. I hope everyone who helped make this is enjoying reading the reactions!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: jwoverho on August 28, 2021, 07:52:53 AM
Here's my latest revised SURF'S UP sequence:

Side One:
Don’t Go Near The Water
Long Promised Road
Take A Load Off Your Feet
Disney Girls
4th Of July
Student Demonstration Time
Surf’s Up

Side Two:
Feel Flows
Lookin’ At Tomorrow
Big Sur
Lady
A Day In The Life Of A Tree
‘Til I Die
(Wouldn’t It Be Nice) To Live Again


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 28, 2021, 08:15:47 AM
Thanks Mark, Alan and all the guys for including the live tracks from all the different decades.

These live tracks are gold!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on August 28, 2021, 08:31:18 AM
Here's my latest revised SURF'S UP sequence:

Side One:
Don’t Go Near The Water
Long Promised Road
Take A Load Off Your Feet
Disney Girls
4th Of July
Student Demonstration Time
Surf’s Up

Side Two:
Feel Flows
Lookin’ At Tomorrow
Big Sur
Lady
A Day In The Life Of A Tree
‘Til I Die
(Wouldn’t It Be Nice) To Live Again

That would've made an absolutely killer set! Nothing is lost, and so much is gained...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on August 28, 2021, 08:56:11 AM
Just got my copy today, so excited to dig into this!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on August 28, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Dennis...Dennis...Dennis...good golly! I don't think there was quite a full solo LP there--Howie and others can feel free to correct me, as there may be more to which they are privy--but listening to all of this abundance of material suggests that SURF'S UP had the potential to be a double LP literally bursting at the seams. The band was literally overflowing with creativity, to a point where all of it could've have done more harm than good in terms of their career.

Four sides of music, with all of Dennis' incredibly varied output repositioned in ways to not make it stand out too starkly. Consider:

Side One: 4th of July--Don't Go Near the Water--Long Promised Road--Take A Load Off Your Feet--Disney Girls--Student Demonstration Time
Side Two: San Miguel--Big Sur--Awake--Where Is She--Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again
Side Three: I'm Going Your Way--All of My Love--Before--Behold the Night--Hawaiian Dream--Old Movie
Side Four: Feel Flows--Looking At Tomorrow-A Day in the Life of A Tree--Til I Die--Surf's Up

That's a total of nine Dennis tracks on the double LP...nine out of twenty-two. Brian has five, Al two, Carl two, Mike two, Al & Mike one, Bruce one. That's probably too unbalanced for the band to have swallowed at the time, but holy moly Dennis was the elephant in the room and the approach taken to his material was clearly not sufficiently nurturing. They took the tracks that were the easiest fit into the band's style, but the material that would comprise a "Side Three" here was (mostly) something beyond what they could assimilate (and, indeed, some portion of it just never coalesced into full coherence--Dennis simply moved on and revised/set aside/revised again until the more congenial beachhead of Brother Studio and a few more years of assimilating the developing music of the seventies assisted him in pulling together the material that comprised POB).

It's almost as if Brother Studio was a grudging recognition that the band had to subsidize Dennis' work despite their inability to assimilate it into their overall identity. Of course, Dennis' volatility and addictive impulses made for a path to creativity that was as complicated and chaotic as the place that Brian was inhabiting in various stages of fragility and outright dyfunctionality from late '68 until he was dragged out of his hibernation (and back into Brother Studio) in '76.

But would a four-sided SURF'S UP have provided a better outcome for the band at the time? Jack and Carl found a way to kow-tow to the band's precipitous democracy with the assemblage of the 10-track LP, while stoking the fires of the ongoing Brian Wilson mythos (which is what really sold SURF'S UP to the general public--David Hepworth, in his book NEVER A DULL MOMENT--looking at 1971, the jam-packed "advent year" of rock--nails what the effect of the 10-track LP ultimately was...as he put it "they were the first band to create a tribute album to themselves" that also made it safe for the counterculture to like them). Could such calculation have been able to withstand the onslaught of the eleven tracks on Sides Two/Three, where the hidden underside of the band's creativity would have manifested itself (mostly via Dennis: eight of his songs are here, making those sides--which in those days would have appeared separate from one another--into a kind of de facto solo LP)?

It's an overwhelming, sad but joyous discovery half a century later, one that (IMO) vindicates all of the folks (raising my hand here) who've fervently felt that Dennis was in his way as unique and significant a songwriter as his older brother. Sad because it never was able to be fully realized; joyous because we finally get to hear just how unique and incredibly wide-ranging Dennis' musical world was, and have all of the materials with which to give him his proper due.

Of course the FEEL FLOWS set does even more than this, and that's to the infinite credit of Howie and Mark and Alan for all they did to ensure that all of this music would, at long last, finally see the light of day. Fifty years is a very long time to wait, but the payoff here makes it all worthwhile.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thatjacob on August 28, 2021, 09:43:37 AM
Listening to Surfs Up and Sunflower on this set I kinda wish they had done new mixes of them. The new mixes sound a whole world better, no high end sharpness and no distortion on vocals.
Or, you know, actually ran them through Desper's matrix like they were originally intended to begin with.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Awesoman on August 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AM
I'm still taking a lot of this in and haven't actually listened to the whole thing in full yet (I've heard most of it though).  A lot of the new stuff serves as a curiosity more than anything as a lot of the unreleased stuff sounds a tad unfinished.  And "songs" like "My Solution" would never stand on its own on any proper Beach Boys album.  I'm not complaining though.  Really glad they put this thing out though as it's well worth the purchase.  I don't know how much casual listeners will get out of it (other than the actual Sunflower and Surf's Up material themselves) but for the diehards like us this is an absolute treat.  Great job Howie and thanks for fighting to put this set out.  I look forward to hearing what you have in store for the Ricky/Blondie years! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thr33 on August 28, 2021, 10:24:46 AM
Agreed with "twentytwenty" - So much for Brian being a vegetable and not doing much but lie in bed, right? Again, the proof is on the tapes. Was he as much to the forefront? Of course not, but man his presence is there on these tapes. And how great if not melancholy is it to hear *THAT VOICE* hitting the high notes which would soon disappear entirely from BB's music.
Terrific post (and tremendous set btw, have been listening a lot the last couple days), but just wanted to highlight this paragraph, particularly the last sentence.

These sessions have been a goldmine, and even if this isn't Brian of the early-mid 60s, he can still pure those high notes. In the next couple of sets, we'll probably hear *that voice* for the last time. We have a good idea of when it happened (some point between the 1974 California Feelin' demo and the 1975 In the Back of My Mind demo), but it's going to be sad once we hear the last few unbooted recordings that showcase him losing it. Not to be overly dramatic.

As an aside, I really hope Feel Flows sells well. I think an In Concert box in a year or two, and a Brian's Back box in a few more years would be tremendous follow-ups. If Feel Flows is a commercial success (it already appears to be a critical one) we'll have more sets to look forward to from copyright extensions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on August 28, 2021, 12:00:56 PM
In the next couple of sets, we'll probably hear *that voice* for the last time. We have a good idea of when it happened (some point between the 1974 California Feelin' demo and the 1975 In the Back of My Mind demo), but it's going to be sad once we hear the last few unbooted recordings that showcase him losing it.

Do we know if there are any more unreleased/unbooted vocals from that time period? I definitely hope there's stuff that hasn't been reported on, but I think we've heard it all at this point. Well, minus the Sail On Sailor demo - which is from a few years earlier. But perhaps I'm forgetting something....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Australia loves some "Feel flows"

(https://i.ibb.co/4tDB6Z2/Screenshot-20210828-202503-Samsung-Internet.jpg)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 28, 2021, 01:56:03 PM
What’s that Australia website? Haven’t found any link for Aus/NZ physical copies yet myself.

Edit: Just found it listed on Amazon Aust.....finally! 👏👏👏slow handclap.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on August 28, 2021, 03:25:41 PM
Should definitely have remixed both albums. Well at least they have that as a future project!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wrightfan on August 28, 2021, 03:46:09 PM
Anyone know via the book who wrote It's Natural and when? Very interesting tune.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 28, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Anyone know via the book who wrote It's Natural and when? Very interesting tune.

Wilson/Sandler

I think that answers when as well :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on August 28, 2021, 04:56:31 PM

The recordings on FF sound great and man how they rocked on "It's about Time". It makes you want a set dedicated to their live performances of the early 70s.



And the sky hasn’t fallen down due to the lack of auto tune! (still pi$$ed about the C50 live album 👎)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: B.E. on August 28, 2021, 05:13:19 PM
And yet I still can't fully make out what Carl's singing at the end of "All I Wanna Do", lol. It's clear that the beginning bit is "If you get lonely in the night..." Anyone decipher what follows?

It's 'If you get lonely in the night I'd come and be with you'

Yeah, it's finally clear to me after hearing the 'vocals only' track!

"Won't You Tell Me" - Was Brian laughing at Murry's comment or at something else happening in the studio? I couldn't tell. What disturbed me was hearing Murry's voice say "Brian, I'm talking to you" like Brian was 10 or something. I tensed up hearing that, even though that demo is a treat over all.

I'm getting 'Beauty, Brian I'm talking beauty' from Murry here. He very definitely loves this song!

You're right, nice catch.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thr33 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:51 PM
Do we know if there are any more unreleased/unbooted vocals from that time period? I definitely hope there's stuff that hasn't been reported on, but I think we've heard it all at this point. Well, minus the Sail On Sailor demo - which is from a few years earlier. But perhaps I'm forgetting something....
Good question, I'm actually not sure. I hope there is.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on August 28, 2021, 05:32:50 PM
Listening to Surfs Up and Sunflower on this set I kinda wish they had done new mixes of them. The new mixes sound a whole world better, no high end sharpness and no distortion on vocals.
Or, you know, actually ran them through Desper's matrix like they were originally intended to begin with.

Having listened to the study videos I’m not a fan of the “3D” stereo, I can appreciate what they were doing but I can see why it was passed over.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on August 28, 2021, 05:36:05 PM
Sadly looks like my Amazon pre-order carries a date of late September or October. I could order new now and get it in two days, but at extra cost. Anybody having delays through their pre-order?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 28, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
Sadly looks like my Amazon pre-order carries a date of late September or October. I could order new now and get it in two days, but at extra cost. Anybody having delays through their pre-order?

Get on to customer service and see if they'll honour the original price


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 28, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
Anyone know via the book who wrote It's Natural and when? Very interesting tune.

David Sandler. I know that off the top of my head from reading the liner notes.

While we are on this, does anybody know who the liner notes credit as the writer(s) of “Carnival” and “Seasons In The Sun” respectively?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 28, 2021, 05:57:10 PM
Anyone have any info on who's playing what on "it's about time"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 28, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
Anyone know via the book who wrote It's Natural and when? Very interesting tune.

Wilson/Sandler

I think that answers when as well :)

Actually no Brian on that one. Just David.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 28, 2021, 07:00:30 PM
O also, is that really Brian taking the lead at the beginning of the alternate version of “Don’t Go Near The Water”? The part about how the water “killed” his dad. Weirdly crazily awesome.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 28, 2021, 07:15:52 PM
O also, is that really Brian taking the lead at the beginning of the alternate version of “Don’t Go Near The Water”? The part about how the water “killed” his dad. Weirdly crazily awesome.

Despite the fact that Al thinks that Brian sang that, it's Al singing it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on August 28, 2021, 07:25:43 PM
Anyone know via the book who wrote It's Natural and when? Very interesting tune.

Wilson/Sandler

I think that answers when as well :)

Actually no Brian on that one. Just David.

Oops! Me bad - read the production credit not the writing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on August 28, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
And yet I still can't fully make out what Carl's singing at the end of "All I Wanna Do", lol. It's clear that the beginning bit is "If you get lonely in the night..." Anyone decipher what follows?

It's 'If you get lonely in the night I'd come and be with you'

Yeah, it's finally clear to me after hearing the 'vocals only' track!

Ooh, good ear!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 28, 2021, 07:48:29 PM
O also, is that really Brian taking the lead at the beginning of the alternate version of “Don’t Go Near The Water”? The part about how the water “killed” his dad. Weirdly crazily awesome.


I nearly keeled over when I heard that for the first time 😂


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on August 28, 2021, 10:42:56 PM
O also, is that really Brian taking the lead at the beginning of the alternate version of “Don’t Go Near The Water”? The part about how the water “killed” his dad. Weirdly crazily awesome.

Despite the fact that Al thinks that Brian sang that, it's Al singing it.

Sure sounds like a reedy voiced BW to me. Any particular reason you’re so certain about it being Al? His other vocals on the tune sound wildly different.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 28, 2021, 10:55:28 PM
O also, is that really Brian taking the lead at the beginning of the alternate version of “Don’t Go Near The Water”? The part about how the water “killed” his dad. Weirdly crazily awesome.

Despite the fact that Al thinks that Brian sang that, it's Al singing it.

Sure sounds like a reedy voiced BW to me. Any particular reason you’re so certain about it being Al? His other vocals on the tune sound wildly different.

Well, I mean, other than it being his voice, I heard this version many years ago in a rougher form and before the track rolls Al is talking up until it's his time to come in.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 29, 2021, 12:46:34 AM
This is a great Mark Linett and Alan Boyd interview

https://youtu.be/AlXZqM8XrCM (https://youtu.be/AlXZqM8XrCM)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Heartical Don on August 29, 2021, 01:23:41 AM
Here's the commentary at Allmusic:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-mw0003538937


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on August 29, 2021, 01:54:48 AM
Sadly looks like my Amazon pre-order carries a date of late September or October. I could order new now and get it in two days, but at extra cost. Anybody having delays through their pre-order?

Get on to customer service and see if they'll honour the original price


To all UK based Fans who are yet to get the 5 CD Set , do try the rather wonderful shop (yes a real shop) Badlands In Cheltenham
They also have an on-line presence


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 29, 2021, 07:24:29 AM
Here's the commentary at Allmusic:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-mw0003538937

They confuse Dennis's All I Want To Do with Brian and Mike's All I Wanna Do.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on August 29, 2021, 07:25:37 AM
Here's the commentary at Allmusic:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-mw0003538937



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on August 29, 2021, 01:07:32 PM
Awesome songs both!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 29, 2021, 05:31:05 PM
Hi all, I had a set pre-ordered through ImportCDs months ago, but got a message a few days ago that my order was cancelled. On the product page I see the set is now listed as 'Back Order'. Did anyone receive their set through them?



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 29, 2021, 07:08:02 PM
Hi all, I had a set pre-ordered through ImportCDs months ago, but got a message a few days ago that my order was cancelled. On the product page I see the set is now listed as 'Back Order'. Did anyone receive their set through them?



I'm in the US.  I ordered from ImportCDs, too, and sent them a message asking if they could tell me when I could expect it.  I just checked my email and I, too, received a reply that said they don't have copies of it and so it is on backorder -- which means it could take 45 days to get to me!

What the f**k did Capitol do to screw up the distribution of this set?  I wish Howie, Mark, or Alan would come here and try to explain to us why orders have been cancelled by Amazon in the UK and by ImportCDs in the US!  Even with all the delays they still couldn't get the product out!  This is sad.  Just so sad.

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 29, 2021, 07:09:41 PM
As mentioned above, I haven't received my box set yet, so I just started to listen to some of it on YouTube...

...and, oh my... My Solution!  I've always loved the one bootlegged version I've heard and was eagerly awaiting to hear a clean copy, and it did not disappoint.  In fact, it surpassed my expectations! 

"I... must've... had to... leave the... room...for a bit" always cracks me up!

But the biggest surprise was the new(?) bridge!  I don't remember ever hearing that before!  And, boy, that is some frightening music!  Almost terrifying.  Nearly gave me chills.  Genius!

I'm so glad to finally hear this song in great quality! 


Also, "Seasons In The Sun" is better than I remember their version being. 

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 29, 2021, 07:33:46 PM
I went to my favorite record and cd store in Seattle today, they did have the two cd version on sale, but none of the variations, or the vinyl. I will say, though, our boys are much more generous on the two cd set, than Apple is with George Harrison's All Things Must Pass. The first cd of ATMP is just record one of the original album; the second cd is the second record of the original, plus Apple Jam. Seems very stingy to me. So let's praise our boys and their team for being generous this time around.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rich E P on August 29, 2021, 07:38:36 PM
I ordered all 4 sets because, as my wife likes to remind me, I have a problem when it comes to The Beach Boys.  I have been very excited about this release as it has been a favourite era of the band for me for a long time.  Only 3 of the sets showed up (the 5 cd set should be delivered in a week says amazon) which makes me sad as it was the one I wanted most but patience is good for the soul they say.  But loving what I have heard so far.  I haven't opened the vinyl sets and have been devouring the 2 cd set right now.  Damn.  So good.  An embarrassment of riches.  Some preliminary thoughts:

The bonus tracks alone on the 2 cd set are worth the wait, and worth their weight in gold.
These bonus tracks SOUND so good. I'm hearing so many fresh ingredients in these mixes.  Makes me appreciate each and every song even more.  Thanks Mark and Alan.
The guitar in this version of Soulful Old Man Sunshine is a revelation.  Who is playing that?  Must be a session guy?
Best version of Suzie Cincinnati ever.  It Rocks - HARD.
Love hearing more Brian vocals from this era.  So pure.  So much emotion. All the boys are singing like angels here.  No other band has singers this good.  Harmony arrangments this good.
As always the vocals only versions are beautiful revelations and are my favourite part of these sets.
Dennis material.  Wow.  And this was his greatest era for vocals which makes it even better.

And I haven't even finished the 2 cd set, because I keep hitting the back button to listen the the previous track multiple times.  These sets will keep me out of trouble for a long time.  So happy.

Big thanks to Desper for capturing so much of this magic so many years ago.  Big thanks to Howie, Alan and Mark for making this project a reality.  So many obstacles and delays but here we are.  You should feel proud.  Magnificent work here gents!  For so long this era has felt like a carefully guarded secret by many.  A hidden badge of honour among fans.  But this material deserves better.  Now is the time, and this team has done so much work to shine a light on it.  Thanks.

Biggest thanks to Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, Al, and Bruce who all shine here.  The sum is truly greater than the parts.  I love The Beach Boys.  This has been a tough time for so many, but this music has healing properties.  Gotta go listen some more!  Thanks!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WonderBill on August 29, 2021, 07:49:17 PM
Nice touch of placing "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) to Live Again" after "Til I Die" and "Surf's Up", thus restoring the intention of that song being last in the sequence of SU songs, which Denny was denied.

Well, sort of. I think Denny wanted his song to follow 'Til I Die. And so far, these two songs have been my favorite part of this set! Why in the world was the extended flute solo on To Live Again cut on the Made in California set? Was that a final decision that Denny originally made? It gives the song a whole new flair! It took me several times listening to take it all in. I also love the a capella coda on the alternate 'Til I Die! Gave me chills...

I'm already working on some unique mixes with these two songs as we speak. 90% of the BB music I have came from Scott G's blog in 2016... (and he is personally responsible for me becoming a superfan; thanks Scott!)

Scott's mix of 'Til I Die with the a capella coda faded out creates the definitive version in my catalog! I'm also probably going to use the Made in California mix of To Live Again up until the coda, as the guitar solo is more audible in that mix.

So far, the only thing that has disappointed me a bit is the new mixes of the album cut. I haven't heard them all, just a few samples, but so far they're sounding a bit lifeless, even if there is more bass added. Then again, Scott was always able to breathe new life into his mixes, and that's what I'm used to hearing.

Other highlights for me have been the new quality mixes of Seasons in the Sun, It's a New Day, and Awake (wow!)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 29, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Why are "Walkin'" and "Where Is She" on this set?  They're already on the one of the previous digital releases.  So why choose these for an encore presentation?  

Just to be clear, this is not a complaint, I just want to know what the reasoning behind it was.

They're both apparently new mixes, but I'm not hearing anything different in them.  Anyone hear something different?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on August 29, 2021, 08:06:41 PM
Sadly looks like my Amazon pre-order carries a date of late September or October. I could order new now and get it in two days, but at extra cost. Anybody having delays through their pre-order?

Get on to customer service and see if they'll honour the original price
Sadly they weren't of much help, and it'd be a good $40 difference to cancel and reorder. Guess I'll join y'all in the appreciation later!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on August 29, 2021, 08:22:05 PM
Hi all, I had a set pre-ordered through ImportCDs months ago, but got a message a few days ago that my order was cancelled. On the product page I see the set is now listed as 'Back Order'. Did anyone receive their set through them?



I'm in the US.  I ordered from ImportCDs, too, and sent them a message asking if they could tell me when I could expect it.  I just checked my email and I, too, received a reply that said they don't have copies of it and so it is on backorder -- which means it could take 45 days to get to me!

What the f**k did Capitol do to screw up the distribution of this set?  I wish Howie, Mark, or Alan would come here and try to explain to us why orders have been cancelled by Amazon in the UK and by ImportCDs in the US!  Even with all the delays they still couldn't get the product out!  This is sad.  Just so sad.

Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Ugh! Sorry to hear it... thanks for the reply though. Yeah, I guess I'll pursue it elsewhere.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Craig Feldspar on August 29, 2021, 08:31:57 PM
been listening the last few days and I am loving it! Oh boy they NAILED the Susie Cincinnati mix this time, this is my favorite mix of it by far. Also "Sound of Free" sounds really great, love the harder guitar sounds towards the end. Has anyone else listened to the Marcella acapella like 50 times? Holy heck Mike Love's bass parts on there and the "uh-huh" harmonies on the second verse are amazing. I think I just noticed something... Is that Dennis singing the "one arm, ONE ARM over my shoulder, sandals.. that dance, DANCE at my feet ,etc, Her eyes, THOSE eyes etc"  part on the left speaker second chorus starting around around 1:36??  it sounds like him and it's amazing and I never realized it until now.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 29, 2021, 08:56:19 PM
WOW!  WOW!  WOW!
Just listened to the track and backing vocals version of "My Solution"!
I love this just as much as the full version!   Sublime!  Exquisite!  A true masterpiece!

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 29, 2021, 08:57:03 PM
So nice to finally get the original "Loop De Loop Flip Flop Flyin' in an Airplane!"

I missed the sound of the plane buzzing the barn and the clucking of chickens, though.  Was that added by Alan in his remake/remix however many years ago it was?  I'd like to crib together a version that has this version plus the new spoken intro Alan added and the buzzing plane/clucking chickens effects.

"Loop De Loop" and "My Solution" were the two known things that I was really looking forward to in this set.  So glad to finally get them officially!


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on August 29, 2021, 09:21:15 PM
I know this is mundane and unimportant but my amazon.ca order for the 5CD finally shipped - so instead of Sept 14, I should get it next weekend. I only say this for the benefit of those who are in a similar boat.

To get back to the music, I have to once again praise Mike for his anchoring bass harmonies, like on the Disney Girls a cappella snippet. I recall reading Stephen Desper's Recording the Beach Boys and him mentioning Mike working the ribbon mic with his limited range/technique; he just nails it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bud Shaver on August 29, 2021, 11:09:38 PM
ImportCDs sent me a shipping notification on 8/25 the USPS tracker says it should arrive on 9/3. I placed my original order on 6/8.

My LP set is supposed to arrive on 9/2.



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on August 30, 2021, 03:56:32 AM
The mixing on this set is so damn good, I’m finding a new favourite with every listen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: RiC on August 30, 2021, 05:31:42 AM
Still waiting mine 4LP and 5CD copies to arrive, argh! Even though Beach Boys has a very tiny fanbase in my country, it seems all the versions except the 2 CD one, are selling very well. The big sets at the moment are almost sold out, but more should arrive this week with my copies. I hope the sells have been good in the States as well, so we could get the 72-73 era as a physical set eventually.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 30, 2021, 06:39:40 AM
Listened to this over the weekend as much as I could.

Amazing. I'm proud of Howie, Mark, and Alan for getting this thing out.

And, given the push last year to let the powers-that-be and the band know how much we wanted this, I'm proud of the fans for that push.

The set is overload, I don't even know how to "review" it as such. The vocal tracks on this stuff are beyond mind-blowing. You think it can't get more epic than the vocals-only Pet Sounds and Smile tracks, but here it is. So much intricate, rich vocal work, truly beyond what one can even imagine humans can accomplish. And Howie is right to hone in on Mike's bass vocals on some of these tracks. Maybe the best work, maybe the best *thing* Mike has ever done in his career.

Those little moments when some song you like is remixed and you hear a new little doodad or note you hadn't heard before? The instrumental and vocal tracks on this set have about TEN THOUSAND moments like that.

The way they are able to *still* continue to peel back layers of "This Whole World" to reveal new things is beyond impressive.

This Dennis stuff, I don't even have words. You have to believe all of these guys simply *forgot* about this material, including Dennis, as the years went on. And Howie's liner notes do a great job of highlighting how truly bizarre it was that the band was going out on tour and playing the hits in cheezy outfits, and then just nonchalantly coming back to the studio and cutting *jaw-dropping, progressive, mature* material. And doing it seemingly free of ego. The only downside was a contemporary seeming unawareness of how amazing the work they were doing was.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 30, 2021, 06:45:55 AM
Regarding Al on the alternate "Don't Go Near the Water", I think this highlights (as does "Take a Load...") how much Al could sound like Brian.

It sounds like Al to me, but he's either purposefully or just accidentally doing a pretty good Brian impression, not just in tone, but in that weird, kind of stilted child-like Brian talk-sing voice at the very beginning.

Al having such a disdain for the "Take A Load....." is so friggin' weird. I mean, I maybe get the root of where he's coming from in that he and Brian are singing in a slightly higher-pitched tone or something, but the fact that he finds the *performance* problematic but doesn't seem to have any problem with the seemingly goofy/slight nature of the composition/lyrics, well, that's our Al.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 30, 2021, 06:58:09 AM
While I think the main tone and takeaway from this set is the uplifting, positive nature of the set, and its release, and the music (obviously), and how for once we can briefly side-step all of the politics and interpersonal stuff, I do have to say that folks are *not* wrong for reading the Brian-Murry exchange as one that is *obviously* imbued with the epic drama of their lifelong relationship.

I think even people with overall very good relationships with their parents and other family can relate to those moments when, even well past childhood, a parent is, well, just kind of f**king with you (knowingly or unknowingly), and gaslighting you or patronizing you or being somehow manipulative, or using the relationship history in a not-so-nice fashion to brow-beat a situation or a conversation. The Murry bit here truly *is* cut from the same cloth as the "Rhonda" session. It doesn't mean Murry or Brian actually hate the song. But the whole thing is obviously weighed down by their relationship history. *Of course* Brian's laugh is what it seems to be; it's awkward and clearly exaggerated out of frustration/sarcasm, that seemed to be the only way Brian could vent back at Murry in these types of weird conversations. Much like the "Rhonda" session, Brian's old enough that he kind of bites back a little bit, but he's clearly weighed down by Murry here as well.

Not to over-analyze. But no, that exchange is not an innocuous exchange. Kudos for including it and letting it speak for itself. It's not some huge black moment on the set or anything. But it's a truthful little tiny moment of their relationship on tape.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on August 30, 2021, 07:52:21 AM
A question from a streamer to those lucky enough to have the physical release: Hawaiian Dream was written by Brian and produced by Dennis? Is that credit right?

And You Need a Mess to Stand Alone and Marcella are at the end as teasers for an eventual next box, right? According to the research included on the Bellagio site, there's a demo for Marcella from late december 1971, obviously not the vocal tracks we're hearing now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: monkee knutz on August 30, 2021, 08:06:08 AM
dupe


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: monkee knutz on August 30, 2021, 08:06:50 AM
Greetings all,
While waiting on my sets to arrive, I'm hoping that someone can confirm or deny claims that these sets contain different mixes between them.
I read somewhere back in June that a specific mix of this or that was exclusive to the 2CD set and not the 5 CD set itself, and vise versa. Does anyone else recall this tidbit/news in regards to them?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 30, 2021, 08:58:44 AM
The lack of group interviews for this release is so disappointing.

No indepth interview about this amazing period of time  :'(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: SonicVolcano on August 30, 2021, 09:56:20 AM
been listening the last few days and I am loving it! Oh boy they NAILED the Susie Cincinnati mix this time, this is my favorite mix of it by far. Also "Sound of Free" sounds really great, love the harder guitar sounds towards the end. Has anyone else listened to the Marcella acapella like 50 times? Holy heck Mike Love's bass parts on there and the "uh-huh" harmonies on the second verse are amazing. I think I just noticed something... Is that Dennis singing the "one arm, ONE ARM over my shoulder, sandals.. that dance, DANCE at my feet ,etc, Her eyes, THOSE eyes etc"  part on the left speaker second chorus starting around around 1:36??  it sounds like him and it's amazing and I never realized it until now.



Yep, the Marcella acapella track may even be my favourite of the complete boxset. Why was it included though? As a tease for the next release? Same for Mess of Help. I thought both were tracks from 1972 (So Tough era)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on August 30, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
The lack of group interviews for this release is so disappointing.

No indepth interview about this amazing period of time  :'(

Here's what you missed:

"I think my cousin Bri' was more interested in the drugs at that time."

"Til I Die is fantastic. It was Brian's last great song. I wrote Disney Girls because 22-year-olds smoking pot gave me the heebie jeebies."

"We usually ate all the food in Brian's fridge before we recorded. Surf's Up was kind of a drag because there were all these people around Brian's sandbox doing drugs. I kept out of all that! But... I should probably rerecord Take a Load Off Your Feet. Wait, was Vegetables on that album?"

"What? Surf's Up? Oh, yeah, that song was quite an experience. Van Dyke wrote that one in 15 minutes and I thought it was fantastic. Then we did Summer Days and Summer Nights, a real rock and roll type album."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on August 30, 2021, 10:44:37 AM
The lack of group interviews for this release is so disappointing.

No indepth interview about this amazing period of time  :'(

Here's what you missed:

"I think my cousin Bri' was more interested in the drugs at that time."

"Til I Die is fantastic. It was Brian's last great song. I wrote Disney Girls because 22-year-olds smoking pot gave me the heebie jeebies."

"We usually ate all the food in Brian's fridge before we recorded. Surf's Up was kind of a drag because there were all these people around Brian's sandbox doing drugs. I kept out of all that! But... I should probably rerecord Take a Load Off Your Feet. Wait, was Vegetables on that album?"

"What? Surf's Up? Oh, yeah, that song was quite an experience. Van Dyke wrote that one in 15 minutes and I thought it was fantastic. Then we did Summer Days and Summer Nights, a real rock and roll type album."


 :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 30, 2021, 10:45:21 AM
Just a random comment.  

These guys were obviously paying attention in the studio in the years prior to ‘69 and ‘70.  They picked up on the harmony stuff they’d heard/ performed with/from Brian. These vocals are what we will hear when we pass through the gates of heaven!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 30, 2021, 12:05:56 PM
Just a random comment.  

These guys were obviously paying attention in the studio in the years prior to ‘69 and ‘70.  They picked up on the harmony stuff they’d heard/ performed with/from Brian. These vocals are what we will hear when we pass through the gates of heaven!


Absolutely! I may be wrong on this but I seem to remember reading that the vocal arrangements were done by Al, Bruce and Carl if Brian wasn't interested. It's incredible what they were capable of. But also the music tracks.


To anyone with the physical release: Could somebody give me the dates and places for the early 70s live performances?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cristian Kiper on August 30, 2021, 02:15:11 PM
Greetings all,
While waiting on my sets to arrive, I'm hoping that someone can confirm or deny claims that these sets contain different mixes between them.
I read somewhere back in June that a specific mix of this or that was exclusive to the 2CD set and not the 5 CD set itself, and vise versa. Does anyone else recall this tidbit/news in regards to them?


Tidal has both sets available for streaming:

- San Miguel is 14 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out sooner.
- Susie Cincinnati has car engine noises at the beginning in the 2 CD set. These sounds are missing in the 5 CD set.
- I'm Going Your Way starts with 14 seconds of studio chatter in the 5 CD set. This is missing in the 2 CD set.
- Soulful Old Man Sunshine is 13 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out sooner.
- All I Wanna Do (A Capella) is 16 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out while they are still singing. In the 5 CD set it continues until they stop singing.
- (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again lasts 4:37 in the 2 CD set versus 6:50 in the 5 CD set.
- Behold The Night has a slightly shorter intro and a slightly shorter ending in the 2 CD set, it's 5 seconds shorter in total.
- All Of My Love/Ecology has a 30 second rehearsal at the beginning which is missing from the 2 CD set. Also, in the 5 CD set the "run run river run" section is twice as long. It's a 50 second difference in total.
- Awake begins with 30 seconds of studio chatter which are missing from the 2 CD set.
- Disney Girls (Live 1982) ends with Al saying "thank you, Bruce" in the 5 CD set. The track fades out before this in the 2 CD set.
- Disney Girls (Backing Vocals Excerpt) is 16 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it's missing half the track.

There may be more stuff that I missed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on August 30, 2021, 02:18:35 PM
Susie Cinc , Back home- 7/3/76- Anaheim
Disney Girls- Blossom Music Center  6/11/82
This Whole World - Groton, Ct 6/19/88
Riot In Cellblock #9- Big Sur  Festival 10/3/1970
Its About Time- Fillmore East 6/27/1971
Surfs Up- Chicago 8/15/73
Take Good Care of Your Feet, Add Some Music To Your Day-  NYC- 11/26/93
Student Demonstration Time- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72
Long Promised Road- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 30, 2021, 02:23:36 PM
Thanks for all your hard work, Mark.

The box set is truly incredible 🙌


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FlowsOfFeeling on August 30, 2021, 02:51:30 PM
Hot off the press, my best attempt at figuring out the lyrics for Dennis’s masterpiece Baby Baby.

Baby Baby
Tell me love is real
Baby Baby
Tell me love is true
Baby Baby
Tell me love is real

Shake it like a snake and I’ll give you a wink
Come on pretty baby won’t you do your thing
All I want to do with you is

Baby Baby
Tell me love is true
Baby Baby
Tell me love is true
Baby Baby
Tell me love is true

Baby Baby
Tell me love is true
Baby Baby
Tell me love is true
Baby baby
tell me love is true

Baby
I need you so
Baby baby yeah
Baby
I need you
Baby

My my my now
Come on pretty baby and shake your thing
Come on pretty baby I’ll give you a ring
All I want to do with you

Baby baby
Tell me love is real
Baby baby
Tell me love is true
Baby baby
Tell me love is true


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on August 30, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Anybody other than me freakin' lovin' the alt. God Only Knows lyrics?   :lol :lol :lol

"If you should ever leave us, we'd all have to move into Al and Lynda's bus..."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 30, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Greetings all,
While waiting on my sets to arrive, I'm hoping that someone can confirm or deny claims that these sets contain different mixes between them.
I read somewhere back in June that a specific mix of this or that was exclusive to the 2CD set and not the 5 CD set itself, and vise versa. Does anyone else recall this tidbit/news in regards to them?


Tidal has both sets available for streaming:

- San Miguel is 14 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out sooner.
- Susie Cincinnati has car engine noises at the beginning in the 2 CD set. These sounds are missing in the 5 CD set.
- I'm Going Your Way starts with 14 seconds of studio chatter in the 5 CD set. This is missing in the 2 CD set.
- Soulful Old Man Sunshine is 13 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out sooner.
- All I Wanna Do (A Capella) is 16 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it fades out while they are still singing. In the 5 CD set it continues until they stop singing.
- (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again lasts 4:37 in the 2 CD set versus 6:50 in the 5 CD set.
- Behold The Night has a slightly shorter intro and a slightly shorter ending in the 2 CD set, it's 5 seconds shorter in total.
- All Of My Love/Ecology has a 30 second rehearsal at the beginning which is missing from the 2 CD set. Also, in the 5 CD set the "run run river run" section is twice as long. It's a 50 second difference in total.
- Awake begins with 30 seconds of studio chatter which are missing from the 2 CD set.
- Disney Girls (Live 1982) ends with Al saying "thank you, Bruce" in the 5 CD set. The track fades out before this in the 2 CD set.
- Disney Girls (Backing Vocals Excerpt) is 16 seconds shorter in the 2 CD set, it's missing half the track.

There may be more stuff that I missed.

As much as I am an advocate for physical media continuing to exist, and I very much am, it's obvious that the space limitations of physical media came into play here which is unfortunate, but at least they have a longer versions available for streaming which most people easily have access to. It's nobody's fault; a disc in only hold so much content.

And in doing a cursory check I believe all of those lengthened tracks are that way as well on Spotify.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: FreakySmiley on August 30, 2021, 07:40:23 PM
Susie Cinc , Back home- 7/3/76- Anaheim
Disney Girls- Blossom Music Center  6/11/82
This Whole World - Groton, Ct 6/19/88
Riot In Cellblock #9- Big Sur  Festival 10/3/1970
Its About Time- Fillmore East 6/27/1971
Surfs Up- Chicago 8/15/73
Take Good Care of Your Feet, Add Some Music To Your Day-  NYC- 11/26/93
Student Demonstration Time- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72
Long Promised Road- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72

Thank you immensely for this information! But I must ask, if "Student Demonstration Time" was indeed recorded @ Carnegie Hall 11/23/1972, does that mean the tracklist on the back and liner notes are incorrect when they notate the track as (Live 1971)? If so that is quite a surprising error.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 30, 2021, 09:29:53 PM
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-and-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971/ (https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-and-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971/)

Pitchfork review.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 30, 2021, 09:31:17 PM
Does anyone notice Mike's 'baby' on 'forever' are nearly absent or is it just me


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: echo_orbiter on August 31, 2021, 01:02:59 AM
The review is up on Pitchfork. https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-and-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on August 31, 2021, 01:33:20 AM
Anyone else while listening to Dennis' "run, run, river run" portion think, wow, the backing track is essentially the main vamp for "Heroes & Villains!" 


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: superunison on August 31, 2021, 04:44:33 AM
Does anyone know offhand what the difference is between the book/liner notes in the 5CD set VS the 4LP set?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DennysDrums83 on August 31, 2021, 06:22:11 AM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Wirestone on August 31, 2021, 06:42:44 AM
Anyone else while listening to Dennis' "run, run, river run" portion think, wow, the backing track is essentially the main vamp for "Heroes & Villains!" 


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

And it turns into a proto River Song just a minute or two later!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: monkee knutz on August 31, 2021, 07:02:08 AM
Greetings all,
While waiting on my sets to arrive, I'm hoping that someone can confirm or deny claims that these sets contain different mixes between them.
I read somewhere back in June that a specific mix of this or that was exclusive to the 2CD set and not the 5 CD set itself, and vise versa. Does anyone else recall this tidbit/news in regards to them?


Tidal has both sets available for streaming:

.......

There may be more stuff that I missed.

Whoa! Thank you sir!
So no unique mixes, but rather edits and fades to fit that format. Good to know. Thanks again!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on August 31, 2021, 07:06:11 AM
Does anyone know offhand what the difference is between the book/liner notes in the 5CD set VS the 4LP set?

I only have the 5CD set, but since the book formats are different — 5CD is rectangular and the 4LP is square — there has to be some page layout differences.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 31, 2021, 09:06:25 AM
This release of "Awake" is everything I always wished it would be. So beautiful. My jaw is on the floor.

Ditto X10000

That's one of the keepers for sure, it's good everyone who wants to can hear it now. We get to hear *THAT VOICE* singing lead, brilliantly at that, at a time when I think many fans thought that voice was not going to be heard again.

What a great piece of tape that is, one of my favorites at this point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on August 31, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
Day 5 of having this box and it’s still blowing me away. And most people are oblivious to the existence of this music.  Only a select few “get it” but those numbers will grow as time passes.  Thanks to all involved. And Steve Desper is the unsung hero of this music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 31, 2021, 09:55:44 AM
"4th of July" (2019 Mix):

The beautiful meditative instrumental moment from 2:03 until 2:14 sounds like the Twin Peaks theme music, recorded 20 years earlier.

Does anyone else hear the similarity?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on August 31, 2021, 10:06:12 AM
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 3: Growing In Soul


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2J1F0J1e30


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on August 31, 2021, 10:31:42 AM
Susie Cinc , Back home- 7/3/76- Anaheim
Disney Girls- Blossom Music Center  6/11/82
This Whole World - Groton, Ct 6/19/88
Riot In Cellblock #9- Big Sur  Festival 10/3/1970
Its About Time- Fillmore East 6/27/1971
Surfs Up- Chicago 8/15/73
Take Good Care of Your Feet, Add Some Music To Your Day-  NYC- 11/26/93
Student Demonstration Time- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72
Long Promised Road- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72



Thank you, Mark! I tell you, I can't stop listening to "It's about Time". Carl's singing on the studio version is great already, but this live performance is breathtaking! What a singer!

Oh and let me add to all the thank yous and congratulations on the set! It sure looks and sounds like everything we could've hoped for when it comes to the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. I hope you guys know how much we fans appreciate that.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on August 31, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
86 on Metacritic from seven reviews - five 80s and two 90s.

https://www.metacritic.com/music/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971/the-beach-boys

Included is a four-star review from Rolling Stone, which I'm afraid isn't nearly as sharp as the great review they ran for Wake The World/I Can Hear Music.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-goes-deep-on-two-beach-boys-classics-1218719/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 31, 2021, 02:14:26 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on August 31, 2021, 03:08:50 PM
Susie Cinc , Back home- 7/3/76- Anaheim
Disney Girls- Blossom Music Center  6/11/82
This Whole World - Groton, Ct 6/19/88
Riot In Cellblock #9- Big Sur  Festival 10/3/1970
Its About Time- Fillmore East 6/27/1971
Surfs Up- Chicago 8/15/73
Take Good Care of Your Feet, Add Some Music To Your Day-  NYC- 11/26/93
Student Demonstration Time- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72
Long Promised Road- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72

I goofed on SDT it is actually from the Fillmore East in 1971 ...so the credit in the box is correct......


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on August 31, 2021, 03:39:44 PM
Mark and Alan interview with Varitey

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/music/news/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-interview-1235052996/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/music/news/beach-boys-feel-flows-box-set-interview-1235052996/amp/)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: as1972 on August 31, 2021, 03:44:51 PM
Susie Cinc , Back home- 7/3/76- Anaheim
Disney Girls- Blossom Music Center  6/11/82
This Whole World - Groton, Ct 6/19/88
Riot In Cellblock #9- Big Sur  Festival 10/3/1970
Its About Time- Fillmore East 6/27/1971
Surfs Up- Chicago 8/15/73
Take Good Care of Your Feet, Add Some Music To Your Day-  NYC- 11/26/93
Student Demonstration Time- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72
Long Promised Road- Carnegie Hall 11/23/72

I goofed on SDT it is actually from the Fillmore East in 1971 ...so the credit in the box is correct......

Mr Linett, from listening to copies of both shows online, Student Demonstration Time sounds a lot closer to the Carnegie Hall shows than the Fillmore East. I believe your initial assessment was indeed correct.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on August 31, 2021, 03:47:05 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: patsy6 on August 31, 2021, 04:54:32 PM
Received my set yesterday, and have listened to three of the five CDs so far. So well done!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on August 31, 2021, 06:41:36 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on August 31, 2021, 07:11:25 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bud Shaver on August 31, 2021, 07:18:19 PM
My 5 CD box set arrived from ImportCDs today. A couple days earlier than I had expected. Now I need to rip FLACs of the discs so I can enjoy it at work.

A big Thank You! to Mark and Alan for fulfilling a wish I've had for 30 years.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rebel on August 31, 2021, 08:21:00 PM
Do we know what if any participation Marilyn had vocally? Sounds like she is on Feel Flows backing, or am I mistaken?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Craig Feldspar on August 31, 2021, 09:40:05 PM
anyone else really digging "its natural" ?, It has a really cool feel to it with the keyboards, I am very curious to see how the finish song would have sounded.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on August 31, 2021, 10:58:40 PM
anyone else really digging "its natural" ?, It has a really cool feel to it with the keyboards, I am very curious to see how the finish song would have sounded.

Absolutely. As I said in another thread, it sound kinda like a proto-Love You with the sound of the keys, the synth bass and the heavy, loud drums. Nice little song David Sandler had right there. Truly too bad him and Brian didn't work together more. Perhaps there is more left in the vaults from their time working together.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cristian Kiper on September 01, 2021, 09:02:02 AM
anyone else really digging "its natural" ?, It has a really cool feel to it with the keyboards, I am very curious to see how the finish song would have sounded.

To me it sounds like something XTC could have recorded in the late 80s. Very cool song.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
anyone else really digging "its natural" ?, It has a really cool feel to it with the keyboards, I am very curious to see how the finish song would have sounded.

To me it sounds like something XTC could have recorded in the late 80s. Very cool song.

Good call! Very interesting track - really digging the organ sounds. And not just vintage XTC! On quite a few tracks throughout the set, there are musical elements, styles of playing, and sounds that would not be out of place on any number of 90's-2000's indie-alternative-lofi artists' albums. Like the Elephant 6 groups, Apples In Stereo, Animal Collective, Olivia Tremor Control, etc.

So it's interesting to hear what are unheard tracks from 70-71 sounding very much like what those specific genres of indie groups would sound like in their music 20-30 years later.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 01, 2021, 09:18:26 AM
Do we know what if any participation Marilyn had vocally? Sounds like she is on Feel Flows backing, or am I mistaken?

I think so, too. The lead up to the chorus sounds like Carl, Brian and Marylin to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 01, 2021, 09:29:18 AM
Do we know what if any participation Marilyn had vocally? Sounds like she is on Feel Flows backing, or am I mistaken?

I think so, too. The lead up to the chorus sounds like Carl, Brian and Marylin to me.

That'd be Carl, Diane and Marilyn.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2021, 09:32:26 AM
That "My Solution" backing track - Hell, if that were on an Elephant 6 label album it would be praised as lo-fi alterna-genius!  ;D

Maybe it's just me, but hearing the organ track on that one reminded me of that old "H&V Sessions" boot where there are tracks of similar creepy organ tracks being recorded for the "Intro". It has that nighttime, stoned kind of feel that could have fit on Smile had those H&V organ parts been used on a mix. Same with the tape delay percussion.

Add that now to Take A Load Off Your Feet as tracks recorded in 71 or so that had the Smile production and sonic touches which were dismissed 4-5 years prior.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2021, 09:36:58 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  :lol :smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 01, 2021, 09:43:26 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  :lol :smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Did they always play the same rare songs during the "unplugged" set on that tour as heard on the NYC recording?
It's great to hear them perform "Wonderful" a. o. but imo the electric keyboard sounds unfortunately haven't aged very well.







Do we know what if any participation Marilyn had vocally? Sounds like she is on Feel Flows backing, or am I mistaken?

I think so, too. The lead up to the chorus sounds like Carl, Brian and Marylin to me.

That'd be Carl, Diane and Marilyn.


Two out of three ain't that bad for my limited ability to pick out single voices, so I take it.  ;) Thanks!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on September 01, 2021, 09:51:07 AM
I could have sworn that Jack Rieley claimed that besides Charles Lloyd on sax and flute, that Carl and Annie were the only other two personnel on "Feel Flows." (And I can hear Brian on backing vocals on the new tracks.)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  :lol :smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.

"Take a Load Off Your Feet" is an even more interesting setlist inclusion for those late '93 shows because the added set of "rare" songs was ostensibly for the purpose of promoting the "Good Vibrations" boxed set, yet "Take a Load...." isn't on the set!

Another interesting bit about the '93 NYC songs that have trickled out on various releases is that, when the pristine soundboard of the show surfaced many years back (after having only been rumored to exist in prior years), I had wondered if they only had a DAT recording of the "house mix." But it appears they captured the show on multi-track most likely, as the mixes of these '93 NYC tracks on these official releases are more refined and balanced.

Conversely, I'm guessing things like "This Whole World" '88 on this set, or the 1995 live "Sail on Sailor" from the MIC set, probably only exist as stereo soundboard DAT recordings.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2021, 10:08:18 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  :lol :smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Did they always play the same rare songs during the "unplugged" set on that tour as heard on the NYC recording?
It's great to hear them perform "Wonderful" a. o. but imo the electric keyboard sounds unfortunately haven't aged very well.

There was only a short string of shows around November of 1993 when they did the full additional set. They didn't swap songs out, they just *added* a full extra set of about 15 songs, mainly to promote the "Good Vibrations" boxed set (although, as I mentioned, they ended up doing more a general set of songs that mixed rare songs and some "unplugged" selections rather than strictly only doing boxed set songs). They thought enough of this mini-tour to conduct full band rehearsals at Al's studio (a recording of the rehearsals circulates; on the extant recording Mike doesn't seem to be present). But it was a short string of shows; I'm not sure precisely how many. Looking at schedules, I'm guessing it was mostly just the 8 or 9 shows from November of 1993.

They *did* retain a few of these "deep" cuts into the 1994 setlist; I believe things like "Hushabye" and "All This Is That" stayed in for awhile.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on September 01, 2021, 11:58:20 AM
Well, as stated before, I haven't got the 5 CD set because ImportCDs told me they didn't have it.  But now someone is saying they got their copy from them!?  I hope I get mine soon!

In the meantime I did receive the 4 LP set from BeachBoys.com and got to read the booklet.  A very nice read.  And lots of great pictures.  
I've got two questions, though...

1)  On page 17, a picture of the tape box has "Games Two Can Play" and "Add Some Music", and an untitled song at the end of the tape.  What song is that?   I guess only Mark, Alan, or Howie could answer that, but I thought I'd ask.

2)  On page 35, the second page of the lyrics to "Surf's Up" we get the lines for the tag...

A children's song have you listened as they play
Their song is love and the children know the way
The Father
His care is done all the children carry on

My question....  WHAT?!   I haven't listened to the a capella version of the tag but are these lyrics on there?  My guess would be no.  And it looks as if the third line "The Father" is not completed.  I'm guessing it was supposed to have as many words/syllables as the first line, sung to the same melody, and the fourth line would be sung to the same melody as the second line.

Very interesting stuff!

Also, I love that someone drew ocean waves on the tape box of "Cool, Cool Water."   ;D

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


PS --  Spoiler Alert for anyone else who wants to try...


...Here's my attempt at a finished third line...  


A children's song have you listened as they play
Their song is love and the children know the way
The Father knows someday he will be gone
His care is done all the children carry on


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 01, 2021, 04:53:16 PM
UK chart info. Top 10 would be nice

Also aiming for Top 10 bows are Toyah’s Posh Pop (No. 9 via Edsel) and a five-disc boxed set of The Beach Boys’ Feel Flows: The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions 1969-1971 (No. 10 via UMC).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 01, 2021, 05:13:28 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").

At any rate, formal recording may not have commenced until the "jam session," which would mean early '72. What's more important (and more encouraging to a "Mess of Help" fanatic like me) is that Mark & Alan seem to have a similar affection for the track, raising hopes that they will give us even more glimpses at its production understructure when they gear up for the CATP/Holland set (which now seems to be a 99% lock given how the response to FEEL FLOWS is proceeding).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 01, 2021, 05:33:56 PM
99% lock is pretty confident, considering it’s The Beach Boys…


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on September 01, 2021, 06:17:57 PM
Not criticizing the set necessarily because it is fantastic but I wish the live selection on the Sunflower disc was just slightly different! Would have liked to see these two performances included instead of the two 15 Big Ones songs (which I know both dated back to the Sunflower sessions but still felt out of place to me).

“Cool Cool Water” TV Performance 1971
https://youtu.be/rUcDojcRiFM

“Forever” Central Park 1971
https://youtu.be/9hyp9b72jSE

Was also surprised to see a live version of “Feel Flows” wasn’t include on the Surf’s Up disc. This is the only live version of it I’ve heard but if it’s the only one that exists, I can understand it being left off the set as Carl is definitely struggling with the vocals (probably safe to say he was not sober that night). The Charles Lloyd flute solo is killer though, it’s a shame if there’s not a better performance from that period in the vaults. https://youtu.be/W1If_VGaiF0


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 01, 2021, 06:49:52 PM
99% lock is pretty confident, considering it’s The Beach Boys…

Point noted, but there's a lot of positive momentum that's gathered around this set--and with added management gravitas overseeing the bottom line (and the ongoing fault lines between factions), I'm a lot more optimistic that we'll get a CATP/Holland set next fall.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2021, 08:12:09 PM
So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 01, 2021, 11:51:33 PM
So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏



I think that's been fairly well-established for a long time in the case of Mess of Help. But he isn't on Marcella, the released version: his only appearance is a cameo in the tag that was entirely dropped from the mix.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 02, 2021, 12:03:30 AM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").


There's almost no dated documentation on anything recorded for So Tough apart from the AFM contracts, which at that stage of the group's career are fairly touch and go for reliability. But with Mess of Help, Carl's recollection of the 'jam session' a few weeks earlier and players like Doug Dillard getting a mention do appear to back the Jan 31 Beatrice AFM's credibility as the date of the basic tracking session. There's nothing further, officially. All we know is that it didn't turn from Beatrice into Mess until the later sessions in April after a tour. Mike and Al spent most of January and February on a TM course in Majorca before directly flying out to the Grand Gala Du Disque, so that puts all of the vocals in April, including "she don't know". (btw, the voice at the end is Mike commenting on his own round-ing, not Al)

On the other hand, the Feb 17 AFM for Marcella, Out in the Country and Body Talk might be a case of filing paperwork to cover for tracks recorded a few months before. Out in the Country clashes a lot with Don Goldberg's memory of recording the track. The later Feb 20 sweetening session for that song does seem to check out.

In that same interview mentioned above, Carl stated that recording for the album began in mid-December. The album sleeve says the same thing. Marcella was being talked about in the press as a potential single as early as October (as 'One Arm Over My Shoulder'), so a late 1971 beginning to the recording is plausible. Badman's info was otherwise basically made up by himself.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: bsten on September 02, 2021, 02:29:15 AM
1. Baby baby is a stand-out, kinda Beatle-ish. Reminds me of something John Lennon could have recorded for his Rock n roll album. Apparently it's one of Dennis's efforts. A pity they didn't make a descent recording, like Sea cruise and Got to know the woman. I'd love to know if there are more _real_ rockers like this in the can. And during what sessions was this recorded?

2. A sessionography (or whatever it's called) would be nice, and some sessions boxes... 😗 But as Mr Desper pointed out elsewhere, you cannot completely rely on session sheets/notes.

3. Guess there's some dirty/naughty stuff that was "banned" from the box (and other boxes for that matter)... 😀 We have the "moaning stuff", but I believe there's more than that... 😛

4. I've heard the Unplugged 93 recordings, excellent! But I feel sad, because it'll be another 20 years till we (eventually) get an unplugged/live box... I'll be dead by then... 😢


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2021, 06:17:30 AM
Not criticizing the set necessarily because it is fantastic but I wish the live selection on the Sunflower disc was just slightly different! Would have liked to see these two performances included instead of the two 15 Big Ones songs (which I know both dated back to the Sunflower sessions but still felt out of place to me).

“Cool Cool Water” TV Performance 1971
https://youtu.be/rUcDojcRiFM

“Forever” Central Park 1971
https://youtu.be/9hyp9b72jSE

Was also surprised to see a live version of “Feel Flows” wasn’t include on the Surf’s Up disc. This is the only live version of it I’ve heard but if it’s the only one that exists, I can understand it being left off the set as Carl is definitely struggling with the vocals (probably safe to say he was not sober that night). The Charles Lloyd flute solo is killer though, it’s a shame if there’s not a better performance from that period in the vaults. https://youtu.be/W1If_VGaiF0

There are several reasons those two TV broadcast recordings wouldn't be included on a set like this.

First, BRI doesn't own those recordings. They'd have to be licensed from the owners of the footage. I would assume one of the benefits of a set like "Feel Flows" is that it's all material owned by BRI (or Capitol/UMG), so they don't have to pay to license any recordings.

Second, I think the preference is to use live recordings where they have multi-track sources, and/or high quality stereo soundboard recordings. The sound quality on the extant recordings of those TV appearances, while not awful, would stick out on a set like "Feel Flows"; the recordings would sound thinner and mono.

I think they would go to more iffy-sounding sources for recordings if the piece in question was rare enough and indispensable.

If they wanted to start using more sketchy-sounding sources for the sake of completeness, they could also use the murky audio recording of the band's live take on "Slip on Through" from TV, or Carl's lead from 1988 or "Forever", or audience recordings of "Lookin' at Tomorrow" from the '71 or '83 tours, the live "Don't Go Near the Water" from '71, etc. I think the idea, especially on the live recordings on "Feel Flows", is not absolute completist-status, but just a presentation of some nice-sounding recordings of well-performed tracks.

And they did some nice work finagling a few of those things; I sense they had to extract "This Whole World" from 1988 from the medley they sometimes put it in on that tour, sandwiched between "California Dreamin'" and "Don't Worry Baby."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: yrplace on September 02, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
I wanted to stop by and post a public thank you to Jerry Schilling without whom the Feel Flows box might never have happened.

He championed the project and the music from the start, and everyone owes him a debt of gratitude for his help and support

Thanks Jerry !

Mark



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 02, 2021, 11:42:52 AM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on September 02, 2021, 12:33:41 PM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on September 02, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
Did anyone buy all four formats!?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2021, 01:01:56 PM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 02, 2021, 02:47:37 PM
So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏



I always believed you, Billy!  :3d


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bud Shaver on September 02, 2021, 06:55:17 PM
My vinyl set showed up today. Here's a little Forever for everyone to enjoy...

https://youtu.be/qIHIvT14pRA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 02, 2021, 08:10:47 PM
Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").


There's almost no dated documentation on anything recorded for So Tough apart from the AFM contracts, which at that stage of the group's career are fairly touch and go for reliability. But with Mess of Help, Carl's recollection of the 'jam session' a few weeks earlier and players like Doug Dillard getting a mention do appear to back the Jan 31 Beatrice AFM's credibility as the date of the basic tracking session. There's nothing further, officially. All we know is that it didn't turn from Beatrice into Mess until the later sessions in April after a tour. Mike and Al spent most of January and February on a TM course in Majorca before directly flying out to the Grand Gala Du Disque, so that puts all of the vocals in April, including "she don't know". (btw, the voice at the end is Mike commenting on his own round-ing, not Al)

On the other hand, the Feb 17 AFM for Marcella, Out in the Country and Body Talk might be a case of filing paperwork to cover for tracks recorded a few months before. Out in the Country clashes a lot with Don Goldberg's memory of recording the track. The later Feb 20 sweetening session for that song does seem to check out.

In that same interview mentioned above, Carl stated that recording for the album began in mid-December. The album sleeve says the same thing. Marcella was being talked about in the press as a potential single as early as October (as 'One Arm Over My Shoulder'), so a late 1971 beginning to the recording is plausible. Badman's info was otherwise basically made up by himself.

Thanks for your contributions guys. Seems there's a bit of a pickle in the ointment here - trying to sort this out [the mixed metaphor catches the worm, don't you know!]. I think that a lack of documentation/strong evidence doesn't really mean that no earlier sessions took place. That quote from Debbie Keil is pretty specific, and yet on the version of events that now seems to prevail, the lyrics were changed before they were ever recorded (except I guess maybe at the "Jam"). Like a lot of things, maybe the truth is somewhere in between - and maybe we'll never know for sure. Maybe a writing session or demo recording happened in 1971, and has not survived. Maybe not - maybe the dates are just wrong. In any event, hopefully the next box set will shed some more light, and if not that then at least provide us with continued fascinating listening.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 02, 2021, 11:46:49 PM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.

That clip was always disturbing to me. Especially when Fred goes “well, my friend is dead and the BB are still here.” Like, is Fred saying that the DJ dying was karmic punishment for not playing a new BB record on the radio in 1970?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 03, 2021, 12:24:57 AM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.

That clip was always disturbing to me. Especially when Fred goes “well, my friend is dead and the BB are still here.” Like, is Fred saying that the DJ dying was karmic punishment for not playing a new BB record on the radio in 1970?

I think that's a bit of a drastic interpretation. I suspect he's just making the point that the Beach Boys well and truly survived that low point in their career.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: terrei on September 03, 2021, 10:57:39 AM
Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself. Wouldn't "Leaving This Town" be a thousand times more fitting? The song is one of their proggiest, a Blondie/Ricky offering, and an underrated highlight, not to mention the group had "left town" in '72, both literally and musically.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2021, 11:07:05 AM
Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself. Wouldn't "Leaving This Town" be a thousand times more fitting? The song is one of their proggiest, a Blondie/Ricky offering, and an underrated highlight, not to mention the group had "left town" in '72, both literally and musically.

I'd wager part of titling something "Sail on Sailor" would be that it's, by leaps and bounds, the most recognizable song title from this era.

And um, yeah, I can't say I've met a ton of Beach Boys fans who would describe the song as "uninspired."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 03, 2021, 11:17:14 AM
"Steamboat: The music of the Beach Boys, 1972-74"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 03, 2021, 11:29:14 AM
I think it would be something like:

Sail on Sailor is the most recognizable song title from this window of time; if a "casual" fan could ever name or at least recognize a song from this era, that would be the one. It's a title that can be thematic enough for such a set (they continued to "sail on"; they kept working and making and releasing music!). The song title hasn't previously been used for any high profile compilations or sets. It's representative of one of the major changes of this era; having Blondie and Ricky in the band having Blondie especially present vocally.

In terms of marketing, if they didn't go with this title, then I wouldn't even see a reason to bother using another song title. At that point, just start coming up with new names. "Shaved Fish", whatever. I mean, we're not going for like exposé, blunt, negative, gritty titles. I don't think a working title for "Feel Flows" was ever "One Big Hyped Up Lie!"

"Sail on Sailor" makes perfect sense to me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 03, 2021, 12:02:15 PM
“Sail On, Sailor” UNINSPIRED??? Yikes! 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 03, 2021, 02:04:24 PM
"FUNKY PRETTY--The Politically Correct (but formerly and once again Politically Incorrect) Music of the Beach Boys, 1972-1974"  :hat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 03, 2021, 02:05:36 PM
“Sail On, Sailor” UNINSPIRED??? Yikes! 

To be fair to the OP, it's not ever said that the song "Sail On Sailor" is uninspiring, merely that the use of that title for a box set is uninspired. I read that as unimaginative, and I think it's a fair call. I'd prefer "Funky Pretty" or "Spark In The Dark" or even something that comes from the fairy tale 'lyrics'.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pixletwin on September 03, 2021, 02:54:19 PM
"Carry Me Home (To Your Record Collection): The 1972-1974 Sessions"

 :p


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on September 03, 2021, 03:45:01 PM
California Saga would also be a good simple but appropriate title.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on September 03, 2021, 09:24:21 PM
Personally, I would love them to go with more of the lyrical nod to the project naming (a la Sunshine Tomorrow), though I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on September 04, 2021, 04:19:30 AM
Dear Brother


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on September 04, 2021, 06:02:56 AM
Personally, I would love them to go with more of the lyrical nod to the project naming (a la Sunshine Tomorrow), though I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't.

Ooh they could call the next one “Beyond Tomorrow”.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 04, 2021, 07:56:16 AM
Dear Brother


I thought that one was saved for the SIP sessions set  ;D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jim V. on September 04, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
Dear Brother


I thought that one was saved for the SIP sessions set  ;D

No. That one will be called Oh Brother.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 04, 2021, 10:28:14 AM
California Saga would also be a good simple but appropriate title.

This actually seems quite likely to be what it winds up being called


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 04, 2021, 12:07:43 PM
Wow - #19 on the UK charts. Still waiting on Billboard.

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 04, 2021, 12:27:16 PM
If they attempt a Summer in Paradise box set, all three of Mark, Alan and Howie may need a therapist…


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on September 04, 2021, 01:28:48 PM
Fairytale Music-The Beach Boys 1972-74


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: juggler on September 05, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
If they attempt a Summer in Paradise box set, all three of Mark, Alan and Howie may need a therapist…

Oh, dear God, no.   Talk about "... leavin' no one safe in their home or their habitat."


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on September 05, 2021, 12:22:45 PM
Fairytale Music-The Beach Boys 1972-74


Hey, don't knock it - I really want to hear the Bart Simpson mix of Summer Of Love  :lol


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: feelintheflows on September 05, 2021, 05:36:20 PM
All This Is That: The Carl and The Passions - So Tough/ Holland Sessions


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: louielouie on September 05, 2021, 06:13:56 PM
Magic Transistor Radio: So Tough/Holland Sessions


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: louielouie on September 05, 2021, 06:14:32 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: louielouie on September 05, 2021, 06:15:35 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: louielouie on September 05, 2021, 07:05:53 PM
.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 05, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Dutch Treat


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 05, 2021, 10:27:04 PM
Dear Brother


I thought that one was saved for the SIP sessions set  ;D

No. That one will be called Oh Brother.

Oh Dear God


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 06, 2021, 02:17:49 AM
Personally, I would love them to go with more of the lyrical nod to the project naming (a la Sunshine Tomorrow), though I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't.

Ooh they could call the next one “Beyond Tomorrow”.

How about a nod to "Annie" with "Sunshine's Gonna Come Out Tomorrow"? Or not....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 06, 2021, 02:21:53 AM
"Steamboat: The music of the Beach Boys, 1972-74"

I'm liking it! Uh, I guess....high obscurity factor, at least. Of course, some fans might think they're shelling out big bucks for a classic Jerome Kern musical adaptation, or a Mark Twain-penned musical saga set on the Mighty Mississipp.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 06, 2021, 02:23:22 AM
Dear Brother


I thought that one was saved for the SIP sessions set  ;D

No. That one will be called Oh Brother.

IMO it should be "Brother, why hast thou forsaken me"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 06, 2021, 02:27:46 AM
If they attempt a Summer in Paradise box set, all three of Mark, Alan and Howie may need a therapist…

They'll all emerge from their mixing/editing rooms with shell shock, battle fatigue, a glazed look and the dreaded thousand-yard stare a la Syd Barrett.

Cancel, cancel....


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 06, 2021, 02:31:08 AM
California Saga would also be a good simple but appropriate title.

Yes, that would be a good name for it. It follows "Feel Flows" a bit more tongue-trippingly than "SOS" upon 1st consideration.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 06, 2021, 08:59:39 AM
“Sail On, Sailor” UNINSPIRED??? Yikes! 

To be fair to the OP, it's not ever said that the song "Sail On Sailor" is uninspiring, merely that the use of that title for a box set is uninspired. I read that as unimaginative, and I think it's a fair call. I'd prefer "Funky Pretty" or "Spark In The Dark" or even something that comes from the fairy tale 'lyrics'.

Not trying to drag this back into a debate or anything, but the original post in question said:

"Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself."

I don't know how that can be read any other way than saying the title is uninspired, and also that the "song itself" is inspired. To each their own of course, but somebody does appear to feel the *song* is uninspired.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 06, 2021, 09:20:20 AM
Or it could be a clumsily expressed reference to the line "uninspired, drenched and tired".


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on September 06, 2021, 09:27:24 AM
So Giggens was talking about Al rerecording the bass for seasons in the sun and that could've been a possible factor for the set to be pushed back. Do you guys think that could be the case? I mean, it really doesn't matter anymore but, hey, I'm curious  ::)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cool Cool Water on September 06, 2021, 11:24:28 AM
I recieved the LP boxset today. I also have the CD version of the boxset coming via post as well. "My Solution" sounds great on vinyl!  :afro



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on September 06, 2021, 01:24:21 PM
“Sail On, Sailor” UNINSPIRED??? Yikes! 

To be fair to the OP, it's not ever said that the song "Sail On Sailor" is uninspiring, merely that the use of that title for a box set is uninspired. I read that as unimaginative, and I think it's a fair call. I'd prefer "Funky Pretty" or "Spark In The Dark" or even something that comes from the fairy tale 'lyrics'.

Not trying to drag this back into a debate or anything, but the original post in question said:

"Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself."

I don't know how that can be read any other way than saying the title is uninspired, and also that the "song itself" is inspired. To each their own of course, but somebody does appear to feel the *song* is uninspired.

You got me - I should read a bit more carefully.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2021, 06:25:33 AM
So Giggens was talking about Al rerecording the bass for seasons in the sun and that could've been a possible factor for the set to be pushed back. Do you guys think that could be the case? I mean, it really doesn't matter anymore but, hey, I'm curious  ::)

Nothing like that was behind the hang-up/delay discussed last year.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 07, 2021, 10:23:00 AM
Feel Flows to debut at 9 on the billboard chart


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 07, 2021, 10:38:55 AM
The Beach Boys’ archival set Feel Flows: The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions – 1969-1971 debuts at No. 9 on Top Album Sales with 10,000 sold. It’s just the second top 10 for the band since the Top Album Sales chart launched in 1991. The group previously hit the region with the 2012 studio album That’s Why God Made the Radio, which debuted and peaked at No. 3 (June 23, 2012-dated chart).


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on September 07, 2021, 10:44:35 AM
The Beach Boys’ archival set Feel Flows: The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions – 1969-1971 debuts at No. 9 on Top Album Sales with 10,000 sold. It’s just the second top 10 for the band since the Top Album Sales chart launched in 1991. The group previously hit the region with the 2012 studio album That’s Why God Made the Radio, which debuted and peaked at No. 3 (June 23, 2012-dated chart).

Nice! And hey, it would've been 10,001 if my order wasn't cancelled!  :)



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 07, 2021, 10:57:49 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 07, 2021, 11:28:08 AM
That's very cool news!

I gotta ask this about "Marcella": Is this the master take? To me it sounds different to the master but maybe there was more work done for that. The "ooohhhh" in the beginning made me wonder at first if this is the vocal track for the "In Concert" version, but I guess it isn't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2021, 11:44:50 AM
What's weird is that the article notes it's the second time the band has hit the Top 10 since the advent of the "Top Album Sales" chart in 1991, yet it cites the #3 debut for "That's Why God Made the Radio", which I believe was actually in the full-blown main "Billboard 200" album chart.

The way these charts are tabulated, and which albums can go where, has changed so many times over the years. Add to that the fact that streaming vs. sales as measures for success has changed drastically even since TWGMTR in 2012. Which is probably why Billboard mentioned the TWGMTR comparison, because neither the "Top Sales" chart nor the current "Top 200" charts particularly resemble what the "Top 200" chart constituted back even ten years ago, let alone more.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 07, 2021, 11:45:11 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 07, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 07, 2021, 12:01:50 PM
Yeah, that's correct.

The album chart would be more up The Beach Boys alley. Most with any interest in listening to 'feel flows' would be inclined to buy it and not stream it.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Nathan Snyder on September 08, 2021, 07:11:28 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.

I'm pretty sure they count each disc in a boxset towards the total sold count which is why some companies like including a bonus disc to boost sales figures.   If I'm correct, the total number of boxset sales would be approx. 2,000 which seems more realistic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 08, 2021, 07:33:44 AM
A mere #83 on the Billboard Top 200. Still, 68 places higher than Sunflower ...

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 08, 2021, 08:48:50 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.

I'm pretty sure they count each disc in a boxset towards the total sold count which is why some companies like including a bonus disc to boost sales figures.   If I'm correct, the total number of boxset sales would be approx. 2,000 which seems more realistic.

I"m curious if it could work like that.

The albums sales chart includes both digital and physical full album purchases. The digital edition has no "discs", so I don't think a digital edition would count as multiple units. Also, this figure would presumably include other SKUs for the set such as the vinyl edition, and possibly the 2-CD version.

There may be some more convoluted formulas they use; I'm not sure. But I don't think the set has sold only 2,000 units across all physical and digital SKUs.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on September 08, 2021, 10:04:15 AM
Do these sales figures include orders that haven’t shipped yet?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on September 08, 2021, 10:39:48 AM
Kind of amazed that something like Queen Greatest Hits can still be as high as the top 20 selling albums in the entire country. Queen are great of course, but how many times can you hear "Bohemian Rhapsody" before you're wishing for someone to drive a screw through your ear drum with an electric drill?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: monkee knutz on September 08, 2021, 11:20:22 AM
Holyshitonastick!
The extended backing vocals version of This Whole World was worth the price of the box alone!
All hail Hal Blaine and his incredible sticks & skins work! WOWSVILLE!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 08, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Holyshitonastick!
The extended backing vocals version of This Whole World was worth the price of the box alone!
All hail Hal Blaine and his incredible sticks & skins work! WOWSVILLE!

It's Dennis Dragon on drums on This Whole World.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 08, 2021, 04:54:55 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 08, 2021, 05:40:55 PM
Thanks, Howie, that's very kind.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 09, 2021, 07:10:21 AM
Your new "Slip on Through" breakdown is great. I'm putting a link up on my FB page. This stuff needs to be seen indeed.

Your guitar breakdown awhile back on "This Whole World" was great. I'm curious if there's a way to do a breakdown on *why* the chord changes in "This Whole World" are so appealing. That song has like a million chords in it, and the changes make no sense yet make total sense. It's not something like, say, that rando Brian '77 track "Why", which while cool and interesting, sounds like some random weird jazzy chord changes. "This Whole World" keeps changing chords, almost like a runaway train, but they all sound right. The chords come back around and resolve and sound "right" at the end, but each chord change sounds "right" even before anything resolves. "Wonderful" is another one like that.

I'd have to guess some of what sounds right are the modulations/key changes, but my grasp of this musicological whatnot in terms of trying to describe what I'm thinking always comes it fits and starts. These videos *show* this stuff. Perfect.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 09, 2021, 07:56:04 AM
Definitely worth checking out!

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27900.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27900.0.html)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 09, 2021, 08:11:54 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.

I'm pretty sure they count each disc in a boxset towards the total sold count which is why some companies like including a bonus disc to boost sales figures.   If I'm correct, the total number of boxset sales would be approx. 2,000 which seems more realistic.

I"m curious if it could work like that.

The albums sales chart includes both digital and physical full album purchases. The digital edition has no "discs", so I don't think a digital edition would count as multiple units. Also, this figure would presumably include other SKUs for the set such as the vinyl edition, and possibly the 2-CD version.

There may be some more convoluted formulas they use; I'm not sure. But I don't think the set has sold only 2,000 units across all physical and digital SKUs.


Do these sales figures include orders that haven’t shipped yet?



The way "charts" are calculated and listed is so convoluted as of 2021, I doubt there are many even in the record business who could give a straight answer as to how it's done. When you're dealing with releases that have 3 or 4 types of media per release, including digital streaming and downloading, how in the hell could anyone tabulate all of it into one cohesive figure in order to form a "chart" of any kind?

It's absurd.

In previous decades I believe chart placement in terms of weekly sales was almost entirely based on how many orders were placed by the record shops to stock their shelves. Not by how many customers came into a shop and bought a copy of a record. Then they'd factor in airplay on the radio in different regions, and get their Hot 100 singles or Top 200 Album lists. So it could be rigged, and it was rigged, as in the famous case of Brian Epstein ordering something like 40,000 copies of "Love Me Do" for his NEMS record shop so the Beatles' debut single would appear on the UK singles charts.

I think most artists just take chart placement as the marketing opportunity it has become, and celebrate whatever number is listed by whatever convoluted formula "The Business" uses to calculate these things. I mean, seriously, does anyone think the numbers of the modern Top-40 type of genres are anywhere near accurate when you get a new unknown rapper with the prefix "Lil'" generating upwards of 10 million views in a week or two on YouTube, or some new unknown tatted-up country Bro with a designer trucker hat and ripped flannel shirt scoring similar numbers?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: William Bowe on September 09, 2021, 01:30:01 PM
Mark Lewisohn on the tale about Brian Epstein hyping Love Me Do into the British charts:

Quote
North-west sales this first Friday and Saturday – with the epicentre in Liverpool – sent Love Me Do straight into the Top Fifty, the one compiled for the following Thursday’s Record Retailer: it snuck in at 49 ... So freakish was all of this, rumours quickly took grip that Brian was hyping the chart, buying in boxes of Love Me Do to fake its position ... No one considered Brian’s membership of a committee that challenged suspicions of chart malpractice, or his resistance to faking My Bonnie into even his own shop’s published Top Twenty, or – most striking of all – the fact that, in 1962, it made no difference how many copies a shop sold of any record because the charts weren’t computed that way. Nems had been a ‘chart return’ operation for years – it still provided data to Melody Maker and also now to Record Retailer – but those papers’ weekly phone calls or printed questionnaires didn’t ask for sales figures, only for a shop’s bestselling records ranked from 1 to 30; the papers awarded thirty points to the number 1 record down to one point for the number 30, and calculated an overall national total. All the charts were produced this way, as they still were in America. Brian Epstein had no need to buy ten thousand Love Me Dos to fake it into the charts; he didn’t even need to buy one. He did buy a couple of thousand copies, because the majority of Beatles fans wanted to buy it from Nems’ three stores, and because he was the manager and agent of this band and EMI had sent him one free copy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 09, 2021, 02:33:51 PM
Mark Lewisohn on the tale about Brian Epstein hyping Love Me Do into the British charts:

Quote
North-west sales this first Friday and Saturday – with the epicentre in Liverpool – sent Love Me Do straight into the Top Fifty, the one compiled for the following Thursday’s Record Retailer: it snuck in at 49 ... So freakish was all of this, rumours quickly took grip that Brian was hyping the chart, buying in boxes of Love Me Do to fake its position ... No one considered Brian’s membership of a committee that challenged suspicions of chart malpractice, or his resistance to faking My Bonnie into even his own shop’s published Top Twenty, or – most striking of all – the fact that, in 1962, it made no difference how many copies a shop sold of any record because the charts weren’t computed that way. Nems had been a ‘chart return’ operation for years – it still provided data to Melody Maker and also now to Record Retailer – but those papers’ weekly phone calls or printed questionnaires didn’t ask for sales figures, only for a shop’s bestselling records ranked from 1 to 30; the papers awarded thirty points to the number 1 record down to one point for the number 30, and calculated an overall national total. All the charts were produced this way, as they still were in America. Brian Epstein had no need to buy ten thousand Love Me Dos to fake it into the charts; he didn’t even need to buy one. He did buy a couple of thousand copies, because the majority of Beatles fans wanted to buy it from Nems’ three stores, and because he was the manager and agent of this band and EMI had sent him one free copy.

Interesting info! But I would challenge Lewisohn's statement about how the charting process was done in America. That's not quite right, and I'll have to follow up with more info on that when I can find it. Sales were tabulated on how many copies were ordered. I don't know when or for how long that was done, but you didn't have individual record shops saying "we sold 200 copies of Record X" every week, it was how many copies were shipped.

I think. Lol.  :-D


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on September 09, 2021, 05:54:11 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E

Cool, with these kind of songwriters, it's pretty much almost all in the voicings.

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 09, 2021, 09:07:47 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E

Cool, with these kind of songwriters, it's pretty much almost all in the voicings.

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?

More accurately, some of those vocals were recorded with the tape running fast, and so played back at "normal" speed they sound lower and slower.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 10, 2021, 09:06:45 AM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E

Cool, with these kind of songwriters, it's pretty much almost all in the voicings.

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?

More accurately, some of those vocals were recorded with the tape running fast, and so played back at "normal" speed they sound lower and slower.

And that in itself is not a new technique at all, even though as of 1969 in pop and rock music the Beatles had been doing it perhaps most obviously since the song Rain, where they played the backing track much faster then slowed it down to change the texture - but hardly any listeners would have noticed, much like what the BB's were doing. And the pioneer of all this in popular music, Les Paul, was doing these things in the 40's. I just mention all that because it's always important to know the lineage and that a lot of these things were innovative as they were applied but were not new techniques.

Actually the most fascinating history on vari-speeding comes from the World War 1 era! Spies would record coded messages on primitive wire-type recorders, speed up the recording to where it was completely unintelligible, broadcast the message over short wave, and the recipients would record it over the air then slow it down to transcribe the message. World War 1, mind you. That's crazy stuff. But not relevant to Feel Flows, so I'll say sorry for the off-topic.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 10, 2021, 09:17:22 AM
Mark Lewisohn on the tale about Brian Epstein hyping Love Me Do into the British charts:

Quote
North-west sales this first Friday and Saturday – with the epicentre in Liverpool – sent Love Me Do straight into the Top Fifty, the one compiled for the following Thursday’s Record Retailer: it snuck in at 49 ... So freakish was all of this, rumours quickly took grip that Brian was hyping the chart, buying in boxes of Love Me Do to fake its position ... No one considered Brian’s membership of a committee that challenged suspicions of chart malpractice, or his resistance to faking My Bonnie into even his own shop’s published Top Twenty, or – most striking of all – the fact that, in 1962, it made no difference how many copies a shop sold of any record because the charts weren’t computed that way. Nems had been a ‘chart return’ operation for years – it still provided data to Melody Maker and also now to Record Retailer – but those papers’ weekly phone calls or printed questionnaires didn’t ask for sales figures, only for a shop’s bestselling records ranked from 1 to 30; the papers awarded thirty points to the number 1 record down to one point for the number 30, and calculated an overall national total. All the charts were produced this way, as they still were in America. Brian Epstein had no need to buy ten thousand Love Me Dos to fake it into the charts; he didn’t even need to buy one. He did buy a couple of thousand copies, because the majority of Beatles fans wanted to buy it from Nems’ three stores, and because he was the manager and agent of this band and EMI had sent him one free copy.

Interesting info! But I would challenge Lewisohn's statement about how the charting process was done in America. That's not quite right, and I'll have to follow up with more info on that when I can find it. Sales were tabulated on how many copies were ordered. I don't know when or for how long that was done, but you didn't have individual record shops saying "we sold 200 copies of Record X" every week, it was how many copies were shipped.

I think. Lol.  :-D

Just adding to this and what I think are some errors in Lewisohn's description: The chart systems in place at the time Lewisohn is describing were different between the US and the UK in one other major way: Radio airplay. In the US the charts also factored in regional radio airplay and individual stations' weekly surveys and airplay logs of what records their DJ's were playing. In some cases well throughout the 60's a record could be a top-5 hit in Boston but do absolutely nothing in Miami or whatever other regions were surveyed. This happened to the Beach Boys on multiple occasions, where a single like Wild Honey went top-5 in Detroit and Philly but barely cracked top-20 in other regions. So when the overall airplay was averaged out and the chart positions tabulated, Wild Honey looked like more of a slow-starter overall than it was in certain cities and areas.

In the UK, they had the government-run BBC playing the records. I don't believe any charts tabulated airplay as the US did because there was only one outlet for airplay, the BBC. If people wanted to hear rock and roll up to a certain time, they'd tune into Radio Luxembourg or later the pirate ship-based radio stations like Caroline. And those sure as hell were not being factored into chart positions in the music papers anywhere near what Billboard or Cashbox was doing in the US.

Just pointing that out to say there's more to the background than what Lewisohn suggested in that commentary, and even though it was great to read about the myth-busting regarding Brian Epstein stacking the deck with the Love Me Do single, it isn't entirely accurate to say the US and the UK did music charts the same way.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 10, 2021, 09:25:45 AM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E

Cool, with these kind of songwriters, it's pretty much almost all in the voicings.

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?

More accurately, some of those vocals were recorded with the tape running fast, and so played back at "normal" speed they sound lower and slower.

I actually think those were all recorded as-is, just with unusually low harmony voicings. Sounds like a Reggie Dingleberry idea.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 10, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
Is the Dennis material from the new set all that exists, or all that was recorded, of his solo project?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 10, 2021, 12:30:58 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here yet  -- but Joshilyn, these are brilliant and so important.
Keep going!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjiGUoB_0E

Cool, with these kind of songwriters, it's pretty much almost all in the voicings.

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?

More accurately, some of those vocals were recorded with the tape running fast, and so played back at "normal" speed they sound lower and slower.

I actually think those were all recorded as-is, just with unusually low harmony voicings. Sounds like a Reggie Dingleberry idea.

I agree they're singing low anyway, but to me it sounds more natural varispeeded up by about 5%.  It's not like double speed or anything.  Buy you may be right -- it's right on the line for me.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 10, 2021, 12:39:38 PM
And it's definitely worth noting anyway that it is pretty unusual to hear all the backing vocalists on a Beach Boys song keeping the chord voicings that low.  It's kinda nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 10, 2021, 12:41:20 PM
And -- if it is slightly tape-speed altered, and was Reggie's idea to do that, wouldn't it be hilarious?  One minute he's speeding up the tape to make Brian sound like a 10 year old, the next he wants the guys to sound as manly as possible.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 10, 2021, 12:48:35 PM
Wasn't it Bruce that had a quote at some point years ago that he didn't like that they sounded like "old men" on "Break Away?"

Which of course doesn't answer whether they ran the tape off-speed for that final chorus of backing vocals.

It sure sounds like they ran the tape fast to make the voices sound slow/low on regular playback. I can't think of another case of a full spread of backing vocals like that sounding so obviously off-speed. They were indeed gifted vocalists individually and collectively; perhaps they could actually mimic slowed-down tape. But it has all the hallmarks of slowed-down/altered speed.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Howie Edelson on September 10, 2021, 02:00:21 PM
There's one more POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA-era song that was left off the set.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 10, 2021, 02:01:50 PM
Ooh…saved for a possible end of year dump, perhaps ? 🧐



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on September 10, 2021, 02:21:43 PM
Are we allowed to know any details of it?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 10, 2021, 03:11:33 PM
And -- if it is slightly tape-speed altered, and was Reggie's idea to do that, wouldn't it be hilarious?  One minute he's speeding up the tape to make Brian sound like a 10 year old, the next he wants the guys to sound as manly as possible.

Maybe it wasn't all Reggie's idea: All the discussion about these lower register voices at this time reminded me how there was talk at this same time about changing the band name to something more "manly", like "The Beach Men" or even "The Beach", and even going back to the Wild Honey era there were reports that Brian was upset with the band being referred to as choirboys, with their trademark high-register vocal sounds.

So it would make perfect sense, and fit into the timeline, if they deliberately went for lower vocal sounds like the ones we're discussing to change that perception and maybe score a hit with a lower sound. Source of the band name topic: The Carlin book, for one.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 14, 2021, 03:57:16 AM
Are we allowed to know any details of it?

I think Alan described it in his ESQ interview a couple of weeks ago. He said it was pretty inconsequential, if that was what he was referring to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on September 14, 2021, 04:17:23 PM

There's a lot of stuff to discuss re: Feel Flows music and production. I've been humbly thinking of suggesting a new thread about it. Just a tiny example: the sound of the backing vocals excerpt of "Break Away". Are these slowed down?

More accurately, some of those vocals were recorded with the tape running fast, and so played back at "normal" speed they sound lower and slower.

Yes, I was oversimplifiying it. That was what I was thinking, the "Rain" technique.

Anyone has links to Desper discussing on this board the recording/mixing of the background vocals on Sunflower (eg. the This Whole World tag)? I don't know if it's compression or what, but they never sounded that thick, for lack of a better word.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 14, 2021, 09:21:17 PM
Feel Flows Billboard. Pretty cool! 👏👏👏

https://youtu.be/1BK2ZTBPygA


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: myonlysunshine on September 19, 2021, 08:50:22 AM
A friend of mine and I recorded a discussion/breakdown/video review of the Feel Flows set... and we wound up talking about the set for nearly 4 and a half hours :lol :https://youtu.be/W1QoT1zcMZI (https://youtu.be/W1QoT1zcMZI)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 19, 2021, 12:52:45 PM
Guys and gals, I'm going to buy the two-disc set tomorrow. Originally I wanted to get the five disc set, mainly because it has that killer live version of "It's about Time" on it. But I have to spend money on some other things in the coming weeks and therefore the 90 € for the set would be too much. I will be fine with the two discs, won't I?   :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 19, 2021, 06:01:53 PM
Rocker - I will pray that you find money under a couch cushion!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: obscurereference on September 20, 2021, 05:21:32 AM
Guys and gals, I'm going to buy the two-disc set tomorrow. Originally I wanted to get the five disc set, mainly because it has that killer live version of "It's about Time" on it. But I have to spend money on some other things in the coming weeks and therefore the 90 € for the set would be too much. I will be fine with the two discs, won't I?   :)
IF you don't mind a digital version, Qobuz have the 5 disc set in CD quality for £33
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/feel-flows-the-sunflower-surfs-up-sessions-1969-1971-super-deluxe-the-beach-boys/epf88ak49brsa


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 20, 2021, 10:53:11 AM
Thanks for your replies, guys! I'm afraid I sounded more desparate than I wanted to. All is fine. I'm very happy with getting the two-disc set (the store was closed today, so I'll go tomorrow during my lunch break). A friend of mine bought the five disc set (I think it has even been delivered already), so I will hear the "missing" songs.
But thanks again :)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 20, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
Two of the funniest moments of the box, both during My Solution :

Brian rolling/annunciating the letter "r" during the word "pRoduced" at 0:23 (was this an attempt at a Boris Karloff impersonation?)

Brian comically speeding up his spoken word lyric "...to all mankind" so that he gets to *barely* squeeze in all the awkward verbose words just before the chorus comes in at 1:10

I played this song for my mom who could not stop laughing. I guess this could be considered the spiritual sequel to Monster Mash?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on September 20, 2021, 03:49:22 PM
You know what THAT means!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on September 21, 2021, 05:31:30 PM
Yes, "My Solution" is hilarious.  I keep finding more things to laugh at!

I love that Brian chose the word "damsel."  Cracks me up!

And then you contrast the comedy with utterly terrifying bridge!  Whoa!

Love the production, too.  Brian was really mastering the synth, wasn't he?   That repeating synth sound "CHUGGA-CHugga-Chugga-chugga" is great.  And the sound of tapping glass as if someone is playing music on test tubes and vials.  Was anyone else is the rock world using the synth like this at this time?  I don't really know, but it does seem early to me for effects of this type.


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: debonbon on September 22, 2021, 02:39:56 AM
My Solution was hands down the song I was most looking forward to.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 22, 2021, 09:09:34 AM
Has there ever been any info on why My Solution was recorded in the 1st place?

There's no way this was ever done with the intent of it being an album track on any project, right?

I'm guessing it was just written/recorded for fun/as a goof, but wondering if anyone knows any other info.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: sloopjohnb72 on September 22, 2021, 11:11:07 AM
Has there ever been any info on why My Solution was recorded in the 1st place?

There's no way this was ever done with the intent of it being an album track on any project, right?

I'm guessing it was just written/recorded for fun/as a goof, but wondering if anyone knows any other info.

Considering Brian was planning to put it on an album in 1976, and it ended up (in re-written form) on Imagination, I don't see why they wouldn't have done it back then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on September 22, 2021, 06:23:37 PM
Has there ever been any info on why My Solution was recorded in the 1st place?

There's no way this was ever done with the intent of it being an album track on any project, right?

I'm guessing it was just written/recorded for fun/as a goof, but wondering if anyone knows any other info.

It was supposed to be a Halloween track - maybe a Halloween single?  Or Bside?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 22, 2021, 11:51:38 PM
Has there ever been any info on why My Solution was recorded in the 1st place?

There's no way this was ever done with the intent of it being an album track on any project, right?

I'm guessing it was just written/recorded for fun/as a goof, but wondering if anyone knows any other info.

It was supposed to be a Halloween track - maybe a Halloween single?  Or Bside?

He was recording it on Halloween, so that'd be hard to make happen.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 23, 2021, 06:58:21 AM
May Day, 1971:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zFZlyjnBw

Fascinating. At one point you're literally standing over Dennis watching him drum.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 23, 2021, 07:30:58 AM
That footage deserves its own thread!  What a great document.  Love to see Dennis and Daryl Dragon up there.  What a cool looking band they were at that point.  And even the hippies couldn't help but love singing along with Wouldn't It Be Nice.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 23, 2021, 08:37:52 AM
That footage deserves its own thread!  What a great document.  Love to see Dennis and Daryl Dragon up there.  What a cool looking band they were at that point.  And even the hippies couldn't help but love singing along with Wouldn't It Be Nice.

This is of course as most can probably tell the footage they used for that very short bit in the "An American Band" doc during the "Student Demonstration Time" bit.

I think some of this footage may have been up awhile back on one of the stock footage websites (Getty, or "Historic Films", etc.), but I think this is the first time the footage has had audio. It's not in-line audio, but it's actually almost more fascinating to hear the camera crew mic-ing this, as once it gets to the on-stage footage, it literally sounds (and looks) like what it would have been like to just wander around on stage during a BB show in 1971.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 23, 2021, 09:06:20 AM
So, rummaging through old lists of touring band members, would that be Jeff Kaplan on bass during "God Only Knows?"


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 23, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
So great to see more of this footage. I was hoping it would come out!
Not too long ago I read about this and also some recollections of people who attended the May day. Here's an article about it:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1990.msg669651.html#msg669651


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Shady on September 23, 2021, 10:45:55 AM
I can't stop listening to the "It's about time" track and backing vocals


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 23, 2021, 10:50:34 AM
Beautiful stuff, a reminder of a period of fleeting, youthful unity that could even forgive our boys for their "trespasses." The footage gives just about everyone a chance in the spotlight except good ol' Al, anchoring things as he would always do. Those shots of Dennis and Daryl are phenomenal, but so is the later sequence that shows Bruce with precision and low-key panache on GOK, helping to elevate it into a hymn of love--just what the doctor ordered for a concert held on May Day, 1971.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 23, 2021, 12:30:44 PM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 23, 2021, 12:38:53 PM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?

They had been doing "Riot" for a year or two, and I think they recorded "Student Demonstration Time" a few months after this May gig. My guess would be Mike is reciting his brand new, as-yet-unrecorded, re-written lyrics?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on September 24, 2021, 01:02:46 AM
I've never understood why they performed "Okie"  ??? I like the song but is it some kind of tongue in cheek joke? It's a bit subtle for that, no?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tom on September 24, 2021, 05:25:02 AM
I think they just played it cos they'd played it on stage with the Grateful Dead, and they were trying to play on the hip connection.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 24, 2021, 07:03:53 AM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?

They had been doing "Riot" for a year or two, and I think they recorded "Student Demonstration Time" a few months after this May gig. My guess would be Mike is reciting his brand new, as-yet-unrecorded, re-written lyrics?


According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Demonstration_Time) the album was released in August, the recording of the song done between November '70 and early '71. I'd think that by this time (May '71) they would do "Student Demonstratin Time". But maybe they only started doing it after the album was released?  ???


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 24, 2021, 10:13:44 AM
I've never understood why they performed "Okie"  ??? I like the song but is it some kind of tongue in cheek joke? It's a bit subtle for that, no?

The crowds at that time loved it by all accounts and recordings available. It was definitely tongue in cheek when artists like The Beach Boys performed it, playing up the lyrics like "we don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee" as pure parody and comedy for the counterculture. Merle Haggard himself wrote the song purely at face value after touring through those areas and seeing the differences between rural America and cities like San Francisco, and the song went to number 1 on the country charts, but later Haggard said he started to sing it and view it with a different perspective with a lot of events and years in his rearview mirror than he had originally.

The Grateful Dead also covered other Merle Haggard songs, bottom line is he wrote good songs that were popular and had a good country beat that bands liked playing, and with "Okie" it was a good laugh for the audiences who were smoking pot and dropping LSD so it turned into parody with a good beat. I thought The Beach Boys always knocked it out of the park with the song, and it got the crowds moving and grooving and singing along.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on September 24, 2021, 10:21:47 AM
I've never understood why they performed "Okie"  ??? I like the song but is it some kind of tongue in cheek joke? It's a bit subtle for that, no?

The crowds at that time loved it by all accounts and recordings available. It was definitely tongue in cheek when artists like The Beach Boys performed it, playing up the lyrics like "we don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee" as pure parody and comedy for the counterculture. Merle Haggard himself wrote the song purely at face value after touring through those areas and seeing the differences between rural America and cities like San Francisco, and the song went to number 1 on the country charts, but later Haggard said he started to sing it and view it with a different perspective with a lot of events and years in his rearview mirror than he had originally.

The Grateful Dead also covered other Merle Haggard songs, bottom line is he wrote good songs that were popular and had a good country beat that bands liked playing, and with "Okie" it was a good laugh for the audiences who were smoking pot and dropping LSD so it turned into parody with a good beat. I thought The Beach Boys always knocked it out of the park with the song, and it got the crowds moving and grooving and singing along.

Thanks. It just seems odd for a band that was perceived as square and actively trying to become more "hip" to sing this song. It's very close to the bone. I guess I'm not giving audiences enough credit.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 24, 2021, 08:12:00 PM
I've never understood why they performed "Okie"  ??? I like the song but is it some kind of tongue in cheek joke? It's a bit subtle for that, no?

The crowds at that time loved it by all accounts and recordings available. It was definitely tongue in cheek when artists like The Beach Boys performed it, playing up the lyrics like "we don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee" as pure parody and comedy for the counterculture. Merle Haggard himself wrote the song purely at face value after touring through those areas and seeing the differences between rural America and cities like San Francisco, and the song went to number 1 on the country charts, but later Haggard said he started to sing it and view it with a different perspective with a lot of events and years in his rearview mirror than he had originally.

The Grateful Dead also covered other Merle Haggard songs, bottom line is he wrote good songs that were popular and had a good country beat that bands liked playing, and with "Okie" it was a good laugh for the audiences who were smoking pot and dropping LSD so it turned into parody with a good beat. I thought The Beach Boys always knocked it out of the park with the song, and it got the crowds moving and grooving and singing along.

Thanks. It just seems odd for a band that was perceived as square and actively trying to become more "hip" to sing this song. It's very close to the bone. I guess I'm not giving audiences enough credit.

Plus it was a bit of a joke in that all of The Beach Boys minus Bruce and Al were getting buzzed on various different things by that point.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: The Cigarette Light Joke on September 26, 2021, 01:13:46 AM
Sorry if this has been covered.

What’s the deal with the ending of surfs up live in 73? The performance is beautiful, especially Carl's lead, and then there’s this really weird series of hits at the end. It sounds random to me, does anyone else feel the same way? Or am I missing some reference in the music?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 26, 2021, 10:09:02 AM
One of my favorite moments on the box that I've recently discovered is the live version of "long promised road", particularly when Carl starts singing "yeah, yeah" repeatedly during the bridge. It just feels like he's really getting into the groove of it.

I haven't deep dived into the live recordings of this era, so I don't know if that was just something that he did off the cuff this one performance, or if it was more of a recurring thing when they would play this song during the era, does anybody know?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: HeyJude on September 27, 2021, 09:08:28 AM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?

They had been doing "Riot" for a year or two, and I think they recorded "Student Demonstration Time" a few months after this May gig. My guess would be Mike is reciting his brand new, as-yet-unrecorded, re-written lyrics?


According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Demonstration_Time) the album was released in August, the recording of the song done between November '70 and early '71. I'd think that by this time (May '71) they would do "Student Demonstratin Time". But maybe they only started doing it after the album was released?  ???

I don't know what the definitive sessionography is on that one. In scouring for info, I see a notation for a mixing session for "Student..." in November '70, but then additional (presumably *recording*) sessions for it in July '71 in the midst of a flurry of "Surf's Up" album sessions.

I recall Blondie Chaplin saying his first Beach Boys session was playing bass on "Student...."; was Blondie really recording with the band as early as November 1970? Or would he have been at those mid-1971-ish sessions?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on September 27, 2021, 09:41:13 AM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?

They had been doing "Riot" for a year or two, and I think they recorded "Student Demonstration Time" a few months after this May gig. My guess would be Mike is reciting his brand new, as-yet-unrecorded, re-written lyrics?


According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Demonstration_Time) the album was released in August, the recording of the song done between November '70 and early '71. I'd think that by this time (May '71) they would do "Student Demonstratin Time". But maybe they only started doing it after the album was released?  ???

I don't know what the definitive sessionography is on that one. In scouring for info, I see a notation for a mixing session for "Student..." in November '70, but then additional (presumably *recording*) sessions for it in July '71 in the midst of a flurry of "Surf's Up" album sessions.

I recall Blondie Chaplin saying his first Beach Boys session was playing bass on "Student...."; was Blondie really recording with the band as early as November 1970? Or would he have been at those mid-1971-ish sessions?


Good question. I don't know. Maybe C-Man or Ian know more about this.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WillJC on September 27, 2021, 11:07:29 AM
How come that they sing "Riot in Cell Block #9" and afterwards Mike is citing the lyrics to "Student Demonstration Time"?

They had been doing "Riot" for a year or two, and I think they recorded "Student Demonstration Time" a few months after this May gig. My guess would be Mike is reciting his brand new, as-yet-unrecorded, re-written lyrics?


According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Demonstration_Time) the album was released in August, the recording of the song done between November '70 and early '71. I'd think that by this time (May '71) they would do "Student Demonstratin Time". But maybe they only started doing it after the album was released?  ???

I don't know what the definitive sessionography is on that one. In scouring for info, I see a notation for a mixing session for "Student..." in November '70, but then additional (presumably *recording*) sessions for it in July '71 in the midst of a flurry of "Surf's Up" album sessions.

I recall Blondie Chaplin saying his first Beach Boys session was playing bass on "Student...."; was Blondie really recording with the band as early as November 1970? Or would he have been at those mid-1971-ish sessions?

The November 1970 mix was used on the album, with the July 1971 AFM certainly an after the fact writeup for appearances. By rule of thumb and other evidence, so are the others from late in that month.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 29, 2021, 01:33:49 AM
Two of the funniest moments of the box, both during My Solution :

Brian rolling/annunciating the letter "r" during the word "pRoduced" at 0:23 (was this an attempt at a Boris Karloff impersonation?)

Brian comically speeding up his spoken word lyric "...to all mankind" so that he gets to *barely* squeeze in all the awkward verbose words just before the chorus comes in at 1:10

I played this song for my mom who could not stop laughing. I guess this could be considered the spiritual sequel to Monster Mash?

I used to share "My Solution" sometimes on Facebook years ago, and one former member of Curt Boettcher's band The Millennium (if you haven't heard their amazing album "Begin", check it out) insisted that it had no merit whatsoever and shamed me for sharing it. I said that it was deadpan and funny, neither one of us would back down, we got into an argument about it, and he wound up de-friending me over it. Sheesh!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 29, 2021, 04:05:53 PM
Two of the funniest moments of the box, both during My Solution :

Brian rolling/annunciating the letter "r" during the word "pRoduced" at 0:23 (was this an attempt at a Boris Karloff impersonation?)

Brian comically speeding up his spoken word lyric "...to all mankind" so that he gets to *barely* squeeze in all the awkward verbose words just before the chorus comes in at 1:10

I played this song for my mom who could not stop laughing. I guess this could be considered the spiritual sequel to Monster Mash?

I used to share this song sometimes on Facebook years ago, and one former member of Curt Boettcher's band The Millennium (if you haven't heard their amazing album "Begin", you have to check it out) insisted that it had no merit whatsoever and shamed me for sharing it. I said that it was deadpan and funny, neither one of us would back down, we got into an argument about it, and he wound up de-friending me over it. Sheesh!

WTF?! Musicians should never discredit other musicians like that , and for him to be a complete prick as well? Crazy.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on October 02, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Well, it was only a matter of time 'til something like this was done....  :lol


LL Cool J vs The Beach Boys - It's About Time You Got Knocked Out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKcQ8Zs_ML8


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on October 02, 2021, 05:56:29 PM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on October 03, 2021, 01:58:48 AM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.


I was trying to find that on youtube, but couldn't do so. But I saw this shout-out to Dennis from 1984 (ca. 1:30:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stC-XRBp_rM


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 03, 2021, 12:31:04 PM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.


I was trying to find that on youtube, but couldn't do so. But I saw this shout-out to Dennis from 1984 (ca. 1:30:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stC-XRBp_rM
And no response of any kind from the audience.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: buddhahat on October 04, 2021, 03:36:02 AM
Bit late to this one. The Feels Flow vinyl set was a birthday gift so hadn't listened to any of this set until Friday.

Just wanted to say what a delight this is and say a massive thanks to all those involved in making it a reality, Howie Edelson, Mark Linett & Alan Boyd - I'm sure there are many others pushing to get this stuff out there - thanks for all the hard work.

Now listening, via Apple Music,  to the stuff not included in the vinyl and as ever with the Beach Boys, the backing tracks are blowing me away!! They're like distinct little works of art in themselves - always seems to be something unique to the Beach boys, this, as I don't find other bands' backing tracks or session material nearly as satisfying, even The Beatles.

I still have to digest it all but the biggest initial knockout was the backing track to ADINTLOAT. That just floored me. One the last 5 or so  years my listening habits have gravitated away from the BBs a bit, but every now and then I'll hear something like this and be reminded that no one can compose like BW. Of course, the other band members are heavily represented on the set which gives it a musical diversity that I haven't experienced on previous BB archival releases.

Great stuff and well worth the wait!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Matt H on October 04, 2021, 11:24:43 AM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.


I was trying to find that on youtube, but couldn't do so. But I saw this shout-out to Dennis from 1984 (ca. 1:30:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stC-XRBp_rM
And no response of any kind from the audience.

That was incredibly awkward.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: WindChimes529 on October 05, 2021, 01:07:49 PM
Sorry if this has been covered.

What’s the deal with the ending of surfs up live in 73? The performance is beautiful, especially Carl's lead, and then there’s this really weird series of hits at the end. It sounds random to me, does anyone else feel the same way? Or am I missing some reference in the music?

I sort of thought the same thing myself when hearing it the first time. Scanning another live version of the period, it seems this was the typical ending. The ending I've heard on a couple of '74 versions is more abrupt with fewer "hits" at the end.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Cabinessenceking on October 05, 2021, 02:54:11 PM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.


I was trying to find that on youtube, but couldn't do so. But I saw this shout-out to Dennis from 1984 (ca. 1:30:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stC-XRBp_rM
And no response of any kind from the audience.

That was incredibly awkward.

The presenter kind of mucked it up though and I don't think people were apathetic about Dennis' passing but rather didn't know what to do because it seemed the presenter was about to say more.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 06, 2021, 01:02:44 PM
Has anyone noticed that the sound quality of "I've Got A Friend" isn't as good as the rest of the Dennis titles? There is a lot of hiss, and what seem to be crackles, for lack of a better term.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: pdas1996 on October 14, 2021, 04:15:32 PM
I don't know if this has happened on any of the other streaming services, but all of the subtitles (Live/year, backing track, etc.) have disappeared from the album's YouTube Music page.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Jay on October 14, 2021, 04:41:51 PM
I don't know if this has happened on any of the other streaming services, but all of the subtitles (Live/year, backing track, etc.) have disappeared from the album's YouTube Music page.
Some are subtitled and some aren't.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on October 18, 2021, 02:24:15 AM
Beach Boys - Feel Flows Unboxing & Review | Vinyl Rewind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0lMQffqcuc


You get a very nice look at the vinyl version. The reviewer has some issues with the tracklisting though (he had hoped that you get both albums as they were released originally on vinyl and the bonus tracks on separate discs). Personally I don't care about that but then I'm no vinyl collector.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 18, 2021, 01:22:49 PM
Now that's a great unboxing - would love such a thorough review of all 4 releases/editions.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on October 22, 2021, 08:46:26 AM
Here's a reply from Stanley Shapiro to an article about Dennis in Shindig.   I think most will find it very interesting!

You can find the article here... https://www.shindig-magazine.com/?p=4986


 Stanley Shapiro says:

October 20, 2021 at 11:36 am

My name is Stanley Shapiro…
I wrote 100% of the words in the song WOULDN’T IT BE NICE TO LIVE AGAIN. I wrote those words long before Dennis met Barbara Charren and the song had NOTHING to with Barbara whatsoever… As a matter of fact I was with Dennis when we met Barbara for the very first time at the Hamburger Hamlet in the Westwood Village next door to the theater on the corner.
I wrote the song as a part of a six page letter appealing to my girlfriend to come back after she moved out and moved in with an older man who was an associate of Bill Hayward (the co-producer of EASY RIDER).
Dennis and I agreed to write the songs for the movie… but, NOT that particular song. I wrote that song in 1969… not 1971.
These are the facts… my girlfriend came to ‘Hollywood’ from the Midwest to visit her long time friend who was living with Hayward at the time. She moved in with me before production on EASY RIDER began. She was smitten with the movie business and, after we were invited to a dinner party at Hayward’s home in the Hollywood hills, met a picture producer who was 26 years older than she. She was an aspiring actress and he enticed her with the loan of a Mercedes Benz 280 SE convertible and the use of his Bel Air residence. She fell for that and moved in with him. I was heart broken and pleaded with her to come back in a six page letter, in which I penned the poetic song.
I sent the letter to her and a few days later it was returned unopened. I opened the envelope and left the letter on my kitchen table. Dennis read the letter and pleaded with me to let him use it in a song. I turned him down…
(and, for the record, at that point Darryl had nothing to do with it)…
I didn’t like his suggestion that Dennis was a reincarnation of ‘Wagner’ … an anti-Semitic Nazi who was sympathetic to Hitler in WW2.
A couple of weeks later I got a call from another producer who asked me if I heard what happened to my girlfriend..
I was devastated to learn that she had taken her own life after a falling out with the movie maker, and Dennis begged me, once again, to let him put the words to music. This time I acquiest to his persistence and let him record it…
the two of us own that song 50/50 and Daryl Dragon owns none of it.
Mike Love hated the song and the two of us as well. Dennis went to war over the inclusion of the song on the Surf’s Up album and decided to yank it off after a bitter fight over the lack of interest on the Beach Boys part, telling them they weren’t worthy of the song.
On the way out of the studio he turned and told Mike to go back and write something ‘earth shaking’… like a few more stupid ‘car’ songs. It was a bitter disappointment and wound up in the vaults at Capitol Records.
It was rediscovered by Alan Boyd (the Beach Boys archivist and award winning documentarian after Dennis died).
It was subsequently covered by a little known group called CHAOS and wound up being placed on the ballot for a Grammy nomination as the SONG OF THE YEAR.
In the end, the Beach Boys did nothing to use it or promote it, and it stayed hidden in the vaults for an eternity.
Mike Love replaced the song with an inappropriate ‘tune’
called Student Demonstration Time using the music from another song composed by Mike Stoller… WHAT A GENIUS!!!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Tony S on October 22, 2021, 12:24:09 PM
Thanks Stan....love all of the details there, and your setting the record straight. Would love to hear more of your stories about Dennis and your times together. Tx Again.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: TonyW on October 22, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
I would just like Mr Shapiro to know that the day I first heard WIBNTLA it replaced Student on the version of Surfs Up I listen to.

Thank You Dennis thank you Mr Shapiro.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 22, 2021, 04:01:29 PM
Great words from Stanley Shapiro

It's really unconscionable that this wonderful song was omitted in favor of SDT.

My mother is a child of the 60s who attended Berkeley and was part of People's Park, she was there and lived it, and I recently played her SDT for the first time, and about halfway through it she thought it was so horrible - lyrically speaking she found it incredibly emotionally tone deaf and insulting  - that she wanted me to turn it off.

I happily obliged.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on October 25, 2021, 07:31:08 PM
Interesting that virtually all the outsiders who came into the group’s orbit to collaborate with one or more of th group have nothing but negative impressions of our boy Mike.  To be fair, Student Demonstration Time wasn’t the only song Mike had going at this time - there was Big Sur, an excellent song that had nothing to do with cars.  And Roger Christian was the better car song writer anyway.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on October 27, 2021, 01:54:03 AM
To be fair, in terms of universal public appeal (which isn't everything, I know) the Beach Boys' car songs WERE kind of "earth-shattering". Anyway, it is well known that the relationship between Mike and Dennis was very complex to the say the least.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Don Malcolm on October 27, 2021, 01:40:16 PM
I think Stan's comments, while written with a level of venom that must be taken into account by the reader, reveal the dark underside of the band's "democratic renaissance." It's clear that the stakes had grown higher in the time frame between SUNFLOWER and SURF'S UP, and the jockeying for position became more intense, fueled further by Carl's symbiosis with Jack Rieley. Clearly Jack had something of a "perfect storm" of personalities to contend with regarding the band, and he kind of had to sacrifice Dennis and his burgeoning creativity to keep the strife from spiraling out of control. And he had to find a way to stop the bleeding commercially, which involved invoking the SMiLE myth, pushing ecology, and building up Carl as the steady hand, while somehow maintaining at least an armed truce with Mike and Al (who was in a kind of "non-aligned" mode at that time).

SURF'S UP achieved its goal of getting the band out from under their tainted image, but it probably helped to drive Brian further into his emotional malaise, because by tying "Surf's Up" back to the band, his path as a "stand alone" figure was exponentially problematized. Thus his songwriting got quirkier and it was up to Carl and others to complete the tunes in the studio. The newer recording approaches were not his cup of tea, and there's a lot of documentation about difficulty with his ear in this time frame (some of which may have been used as a smokescreen by Carl, but at least some of it was true).

The problem for the band was that none of the other songwriters--Dennis, Carl, Bruce, Al, Mike--were capable of producing hits. They all came up with good to great material, but none of it registered in the swirling world of late 60s-early 70s rock, and none of it could cut beyond Brian and the SMiLE myth. That shadow was cast over everything. Dennis was their best bet to add a dimension to the band's work that might have gotten past that, but the band kept shelving the tunes that had that potential. But his lifestyle and image were also at odds with the quality of his music, which made it harder for the rest of the band to fully accept him as their best shot to forge at least a parallel commercial identity alongside the combination of the early years and the '66-'67 artistic tsunami.

If Jack had had his act together (I'd say it was about 60%) he'd have found a way to let Dennis open for the band with a portion of his material, after which he would've moved from the piano to the drums as part of the BB show. That way a more organic line could be drawn between what he wrote for the band and what he wrote for himself. When Jack said that the band blew it, he was right. But he blew it, too--he did not serve everyone's interests as optimally as he should have. (Not that 95+% of anyone else trying to manage this aggregation would've done any better, of course...)


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mtaber on October 27, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
I think Jack did about all he could in the shiitshow that is “Beach Boys politics”.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on October 27, 2021, 07:27:59 PM
Well said, Don - I think you present the situation in a very insightful way, if "insight" is the right word to describe thoughts on the situation from those of us who weren't actually present. Again, well said.

A couple of thoughts - (1) yes, none of the guys except Brian really had the goods to musically deliver "commercial" songs at that point (Mike previously had the knack for delivering commercial lyrics for Brian's tunes, but the subjects he'd had commercial success with previously were mostly passé at this point - "Good Vibrations" being a probable exception)...but would Brian have even been able to deliver music that was commercially relevant in the early '70s, assuming he even wanted to? "Sail On Sailor" would come close a couple of years later, but even that wasn't a huge hit, just kind of a medium hit, and not even the first time around, really...and, (2) I think Carl's belated emergence as a songwriter at this point cannot be understated...remember, Carl wasn't really writing songs before '71, not even on Sunflower, just helping the others finish theirs in one or two cases...suddenly, he's putting music to Jack's words (or the other way around), and contributing two majorly significant tracks. Maybe Jack's thought was, "Well, Dennis had the spotlight on the previous album, with four of his songs....let's give Carl a chance in the spotlight now."  Yes, it's a shame that a Dennis song or two wasn't also included, though. Truthfully, each side of Surf's Up is about four minutes shorter than the second side of Sunflower, so it's not as though there wasn't room for two of his songs on there...


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on October 27, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on October 28, 2021, 05:26:07 AM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on October 29, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 

It would've been fine trimmed down imo, the outro is it's weakest part


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: rasmus skotte on October 30, 2021, 01:46:31 AM


The problem for the band was that none of the other songwriters--Dennis, Carl, Bruce, Al, Mike--were capable of producing hits. They all came up with good to great material, but none of it registered in the swirling world of late 60s-early 70s rock, and none of it could cut beyond Brian and the SMiLE myth. That shadow was cast over everything.

Well, wouldn't it be fair to say that until then, at least CARL and AL were capable of producing a minor hit each (not as songwriters, sure) but as PRODUCERS: i CAN HEAR MUSIC  and COTTON FIELDS (re-produced single version)?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: c-man on October 30, 2021, 07:57:24 AM


The problem for the band was that none of the other songwriters--Dennis, Carl, Bruce, Al, Mike--were capable of producing hits. They all came up with good to great material, but none of it registered in the swirling world of late 60s-early 70s rock, and none of it could cut beyond Brian and the SMiLE myth. That shadow was cast over everything.

Well, wouldn't it be fair to say that until then, at least CARL and AL were capable of producing a minor hit each (not as songwriters, sure) but as PRODUCERS: i CAN HEAR MUSIC  and COTTON FIELDS (re-produced single version)?

Yes, but working solely with covers as material...not a great way to boost your cred in the early '70s "hip" culture, especially coming from a band that once produced self-penned hits. If you had strong, contemporary "hit" material of your own, maybe you could get away with a cover now and then.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mrski on October 30, 2021, 01:13:26 PM
   My 5CD set (Made In The EU) arrived yesterday. I would like to ask if anyone else has experienced a similar thing...

I should point out that I like the ‘archive’–type releases and historically have bought all of the boxed sets. HOWEVER it seems that I virtually always have  somekind of a problem with them. Not with the music itself, but the quality of manufacture!

Good Vibrations Box : Faulty disc (“In My Room“ demo) had to send it back... :'(

Pet Sounds Sessions : No problems... :)

US Singles Box : Not played it – still unopened and shrink wrapped! :-D

Smile Sessions Box : Faulty disc (“Surf’s Up“) had to send it back... :'(

Made In California Box : I too had that issue where the actual time of the tracks on one of the discs didn’t correspond to the tracking/playing of the actual disc, meaning one song cut off 2 or 3 seconds early and these 2 or 3 seconds appeared at the start of the next track. Remember?! Had to ask for a replacement disc... (I received a US disc incidently as a replacement, even though I had bought the EU version.)  >:(

So when I ordered Feel Flows I just knew something would be wrong with it even before I opened the package...! And sure enough...

Has anyone else had this problem with an EU Feel Flows : When I open the ‘book‘ the essay and the track listing is UPSIDE DOWN  :o Yes, my first page is an upside down #48!  :o The picture of the band on stage. But upside down! All the other pages continue all the way through to page #1 – ALL UPSIDE DOWN!! The CDs are then the right way up...

You know, for some people these sets cost a lot of money. This is such a basic mistake that it just shouldn’t happen. Does quality control not exist at the manufactures?

What do I do? Send it back??? >:(


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on November 01, 2021, 12:21:50 PM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 

Jack and Carl decided Surf's Up needed to be on the album and to be the closer, and wanted to give the impression that Brian was more involved with the album than he was.  It appears this was felt to be what was needed to enhance the commerciality of the project.  I don't think Jack had a problem with Dennis' songs (he wrote the lyrics to 4th of July) and from everything he's said since he would much rather have jettisoned Al's songs or Mike's SDT than Dennis' songs, if he had a choice.  Dennis wanted more of a say and Carl and Jack had their own ideas of the track order.  Really it was kind of petty for Dennis to pull his songs, but there was definitely a power struggle between Carl and Dennis, and Carl won.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 01, 2021, 05:46:37 PM

US Singles Box : Not played it – still unopened and shrink wrapped!

Not really sure how this qualifies as a "defect", at least not a defect in the product.

Has anyone else had this problem with an EU Feel Flows : When I open the ‘book‘ the essay and the track listing is UPSIDE DOWN  :o Yes, my first page is an upside down #48!  :o The picture of the band on stage. But upside down! All the other pages continue all the way through to page #1 – ALL UPSIDE DOWN!! The CDs are then the right way up...

In my set the entire booklet was upside down, every page and the covers, then I just stood on my head while I read it - it's all good now, except for the headaches I get.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: twentytwenty on November 02, 2021, 08:16:50 AM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 

Dennis wanted more of a say and Carl and Jack had their own ideas of the track order.  Really it was kind of petty for Dennis to pull his songs, but there was definitely a power struggle between Carl and Dennis, and Carl won.

Imagine the coming years if Dennis had won the battle. It would've been glorious!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 03, 2021, 05:33:04 PM
Just wondering about the various releases.

I know the 5CD set is the most comprehensive with the 48 page booklet.

What do the other releases come with?

The 4LP set looks like it comes with a 36 page booklet and a 'poster' - is there a difference in the written content of the booklet, or just less pictures?

The 2 CD is a short booklet with no essay - about 12 pages, is that right?

Is there any substantive booklet with the 2 LP set? If so, how many pages? What is omitted?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on November 03, 2021, 11:37:01 PM
Just wondering about the various releases.

I know the 5CD set is the most comprehensive with the 48 page booklet.

What do the other releases come with?

The 4LP set looks like it comes with a 36 page booklet and a 'poster' - is there a difference in the written content of the booklet, or just less pictures?

The 2 CD is a short booklet with no essay - about 12 pages, is that right?

Is there any substantive booklet with the 2 LP set? If so, how many pages? What is omitted?


I've got both the 5 & 2 CD Sets , so sadly can't comment on the vinyl release(s)

The 2 CD Set comes with a 20 Page Booklet with the Howie notes on the inside of the gatefold


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: thetojo on November 04, 2021, 04:56:29 PM
Just wondering about the various releases.

I know the 5CD set is the most comprehensive with the 48 page booklet.

What do the other releases come with?

The 4LP set looks like it comes with a 36 page booklet and a 'poster' - is there a difference in the written content of the booklet, or just less pictures?

The 2 CD is a short booklet with no essay - about 12 pages, is that right?

Is there any substantive booklet with the 2 LP set? If so, how many pages? What is omitted?


I've got both the 5 & 2 CD Sets , so sadly can't comment on the vinyl release(s)

The 2 CD Set comes with a 20 Page Booklet with the Howie notes on the inside of the gatefold

Thanks.

Any more on the vinyl sets? Didn't anyone buy them?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: 37!ws on November 07, 2021, 05:57:20 PM
So last night at the Dolenz / Nesmith show in Milwaukee, I saw a guy wearing a tie-dye Feel Flows t-shirt! Dude -- if you're reading this, my wife wants to know where you got the shirt!


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Dan Lega on November 12, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Regarding the booklets... I bought the 5CD and the 4LP.  I have not checked them closely, but the written material from all reports is the same in both. 

I will report there is a nice difference in the LP booklet vs. 5CD -- the pictures of the handwritten lyrics for Surf's Up are much larger in the 4LP booklet!  So there are differences in layouts, and therefore in picture sizes.  It probably works both ways, some pictures are larger in one than the other.


Love and merci,
Dan Lega


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Pablo. on November 17, 2021, 02:09:29 PM
Mojo reissue of the year:

THE BEACH BOYS
Feel Flows:
The Sunflower &
Surf’s Up Sessions
1969-1971 (CAPITOL/UMC)


A treasure chest from the
post-Smile shipwreck of
Hawthorne’s finest thrilled
us in 2021. AL JARDINE
and BRUCE JOHNSTON
receive MOJO’s laurels
from BILL DeMAIN.
EVEN HARDCORE Beach Boys fans
well-versed in the bounty to be found in
the years of Brian Wilson’s evanescence
were enthralled by the five discs of Feel
Flows. But as a gratified Bruce Johnston
and Al Jardine remind MOJO today, the period
was anything but plain sailing for the band.
“We were just out of sync with the times,” says
Jardine. “To put it in surfing terms, sometimes you
catch the perfect wave and take it as far as you can
go. Other times, you know you’re going to get wiped
out. So you go under and start all over again.”
In late 1969, waves had submerged The Beach
Boys’ boardwalk empire. No hits, no record deal,
and with Brian sidelined, no creative leader. Yet
they emerged from the fathoms not just with
trinkets and curios, but awe-inspiring treasures
worthy of Pet Sounds and Smile.
“When the famous surfer
blond bushy-tailed guys fell out
of favour, we grew up,” says
Bruce Johnston. “And that
period from ’69-71 was the
highlight of my whole Beach
Boy life.”
Part of growing up was
balancing fun, fun, fun with
work, work, work.
“Every day, we were like
journeyman carpenters,” says
Jardine. “We’d go in the studio
and record. It didn’t matter if it
was something esoteric and
weird. We regenerated,
reinvented. The performance
band was still in bondage to
doing the hits, but in the studio,
we were creating music for a
future. We just didn’t know the
future would take quite this
long to happen (laughs).”
With Brian “reclusing in his
room”, as Johnston puts it, Carl
Wilson stepped up as unofficial
leader. “No one can fill Brian’s
shoes. But Carl was able to
manage some good traffic at
that point. And Feel Flows is up
there with The Trader as one of his shining moments
as a writer.”
Meanwhile, Jardine raves about Dennis Wilson’s
contributions, notably Forever and Sound Of Free.
“Unfortunately, he had to compete with his brothers
for track selection. But his songs were just, wow,
right there, the way they hit you. He should’ve had
more success than he did.”

That’s not to take anything away from their own
songs. Jardine’s eco-conscious meditation Don’t Go
Near The Water was prescient. “I thought maybe
I should write about something more than just
staying on top of the water riding the waves and
instead look at what’s underneath.”
Meanwhile, Johnston’s dewy memory lane waltz
Disney Girls revealed him as a keen acolyte of Brian’s
orchestral pop. Of its inspiration, Johnston says,
“Remember Marilyn on The Munsters? The nice,
normal one. I was Mr Marilyn (laughs). I never did any
drugs. I saw them undo Brian and some of my
friends and thought, Oh my God. As a teenager
in the Eisenhower ’50s I was the same kind of
square guy, holding my girlfriend’s hand in the
backseat of her parents’ car while Old Cape Cod
by Patti Page played.”
Those songs and more are
currently shoring up the setlists
of two separate road bands.
But how is touring against a
lingering Covid backdrop?
Johnston and Jardine’s
responses reveal not only
political leanings but ongoing
friction. “A lot of warm bodies in
those seats, dying to get out of
the house,” says Johnston, who
with Mike Love – and Love’s son
Christian – leads The Beach
Boys. “We probably lost about
four or five concerts. And I’m
still living.”
Jardine, who’s out with Brian
Wilson and Blondie Chaplin, says,
“It’s crappy. The demographic
of our band and bands like the
Stones are down about 50 per
cent, because they don’t want
to come out and get exposed. It
would be better in this day and
age if we could all be together on
the same stage at the same time.”
And with The Beach Boys’ 60th
anniversary coming in 2022,
could that reunion perhaps
happen? Jardine: “Brian’s people
want it. I want it. I’m sure Bruce
does. So it’s really up to Mike,
if he wants to join the party or not.” Johnston says,
“I asked Mike about it and he said, ‘Maybe we’ll do
a concert or two together. Who knows?’”
“I think he’ll come around at some point,”
Jardine says. “We should do at least a dozen big
shows in the major capitals. I mean, why can’t we
put the fans ahead of us for a change and give them
what they want?”

BRIAN SPEAKS!
Or rather, e-mails MOJO
about his most celebrated
songs on Feel Flows.
’Til I Die: “It’s what I was feeling
in my soul and my heart at that
time. And my love for life at the
same time.”
Surf’s Up: “Really complex
lyrics and the melody was such
a beautiful feeling for me
when I finished it.”


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mrski on November 22, 2021, 11:43:51 AM
Can anyone give me a hint on how to post a picture...?! Hope this does it...!!!

Anyone notice anything wrong here?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rob Dean on November 22, 2021, 12:15:50 PM
You are certainly not alone, a good number of people (me included) have found the inners of the booklet to be upside down - Quality Control ???????


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Emdeeh on November 22, 2021, 02:42:18 PM
Is it the entire book inners that are upside down or just some pages?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: mrski on November 24, 2021, 12:49:21 PM
Is it the entire book inners that are upside down or just some pages?


The entire book inners are upside down, CDs are the right way up...  :-\


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: phirnis on January 19, 2022, 04:40:47 AM
Brian made an awful lot of music during those sessions for someone "reclusing in his room". But I get it, hewasn't the leader he had been before, that's certainly true. Anyway, this was a nice read.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Ian on February 11, 2022, 03:15:49 PM
Yeah that chestnut was put to rest a while ago. Brian was not totally in control but he was still a part of the team up to 1972 and everyone still wanted his input. The flame still burned but I think he was a bit lost without that control and leadership


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 23, 2022, 07:22:02 AM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  :o (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

Jack and Carl decided Surf's Up needed to be on the album and to be the closer, and wanted to give the impression that Brian was more involved with the album than he was.  It appears this was felt to be what was needed to enhance the commerciality of the project.  I don't think Jack had a problem with Dennis' songs (he wrote the lyrics to 4th of July) and from everything he's said since he would much rather have jettisoned Al's songs or Mike's SDT than Dennis' songs, if he had a choice.  Dennis wanted more of a say and Carl and Jack had their own ideas of the track order.  Really it was kind of petty for Dennis to pull his songs, but there was definitely a power struggle between Carl and Dennis, and Carl won.

COMMENT to Bicyclerider:  From where I was sitting as all this swirled around me . . . As I recall:  (1) the song, Surf's Up's inclusion in the album was a directive issued by  Warners' Mo Ostin., not Jack nor Carl. (2) It was Dennis who insisted that other band member's songs be included in SU since SF was dominated by Dennis' efforts. There is only so much room on an LP and Dennis wished other band members fill the vinyl with their creations for this second album produced by The Beach Boys, not Brian. There was no power struggle between anyone. There was discussion, yes, but a power struggle? No. The understood and agreed upon pecking order was:  Record Company, Carl, everyone else. ~SWD



Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bicyclerider on July 11, 2022, 10:35:05 AM
Interesting you mention Mo Ostin.  Van Dyke Parks, who worked for WB at the time, was quoted as saying something along the lines of "If they include Surf's Up the next album will be a hit" in the 2 part Rolling Stone article that came out at the time (and fueled many a fan's interest in the Smile tapes, me among them).  So it seems likely Van Dyke was in Mo's ear about the song and that's how he came to request/demand the song be included.

So as far as you remember Stephen there's no truth to the story that Dennis wanted "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" to follow Til I Die as the final track on the album?


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on July 12, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Interesting you mention Mo Ostin.  Van Dyke Parks, who worked for WB at the time, was quoted as saying something along the lines of "If they include Surf's Up the next album will be a hit" in the 2 part Rolling Stone article that came out at the time (and fueled many a fan's interest in the Smile tapes, me among them).  So it seems likely Van Dyke was in Mo's ear about the song and that's how he came to request/demand the song be included.

So as far as you remember Stephen there's no truth to the story that Dennis wanted Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again to follow Til I Die as the final track on the album?
COMMENT to Bicyclerider:  VDP may have been a nudging Mo; can only speculate. I will tell you that it did not take Mo's suggestion for SU to be part of SU, but nevertheless, his endorsement, encouragement, and wishes cannot be overlooked. It is, after all, the title of the album. Reality Check -- at this time, the BB organization was broke. That includes everyone's benefits or salary and living expenses, so things continued via anticipated royalty payments being fronted by Warners. So even a hint from THE MAN MO carried much weight.  
As to your second question:  'live again was not finished or even close to being finished when the lineup question arose, if it ever did.  Such decisions were left to Carl. Dennis was, at this time, spending most of his time on his boat. If anyone was pressing Carl about song lineups, it would have been Jack R. But then, Jack and Carl were not be best of buddies.
I watched over time as Carl would be approach by many of the players with suggestions about the album lineup. He would respectfully listen, nod his head as if understanding, make a note ----- and then do whatever he damn well wanted to do.
And so you know . . .  when you say, "album lineup" it is not just a list of songs, written on a napkin or computer file, there is more to it. First a list is suggested. But to really understand (hear) how each song will play into the next you must listen, not in your head, but in reality. That means the list has to be assembled (edited together) into an actual playable collection of songs. Usually previewed by listening for a few days to a cassette containing the assembled playlist. I assembled several of these for Carl for SU, each list was quite different, as he evaluated the feel of the overall album as well as how each song segues into the next.
I should point out that on an LP there is only room for X number of songs. Usually about 10 or 12 songs . . . divided by six song writers' royalties, means that income for each group member will come from two songs. This is not all their income, but a substantial boost to the general income of each band member. So not only is the musical quality considered, but other factors must be included in this process -- including income from royalties. In other words, Carl had to make song decisions that were not only affecting how the album "played," but how the income from that album "played" income-distribution wise, as well.
As I have pointed out before, the producer of SF & SU was not Brian Wilson, it was a group effort PRODUCED BY THE BEACH BOYS, with equal production rights (read income) going to Brian, Carl, Dennis, Alan & Michael; Bruce was salaried but retained writer's royalties.
A track list with PRODUCED BY BRIAN WILSON would not take into consideration anyone's income. Everyone's income remained the same no matter the play order. The majority of writer's royalties went to Brian. But with individual writers and director/producers, calculating income has changed. Enter stage center -- Beach Boy Politics. Follow the money.
Using this viewpoint, Sunflower was Dennis heavy. Dennis felt he had rescued the group from financial disaster by having songs ready for inclusion onto an album before the other group producers were ready. But the fact remains, the record company was demanding a product, now! At that point you give over what you have ready and hope it is accepted. ...You know the history.
Dennis and I had many dinners together and spoke about many things. Among his feelings Dennis expressed how he felt it time for him to step aside and let the other producers have their vinyl real estate. This is good politics. Dennis was being fair. Fate had handed him a good hand, so now the karma must be returned. Dennis was big on karma. And besides that, he wanted to be apart, and to write. Internally Dennis was yielding to the inner call of harmony and song writing. No longer was that calling satisfied by drumming or even singing. It had to be more creative, coming, not from another author, but from his conception. Something from nothing. Notes evoking emotion from blank paper. So off he went, not with drumsticks, but with pen in hand.
 
I hope this lends a little perspective to the history.
~Stephen W. Desper


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Mitchell on July 16, 2022, 09:04:57 PM
Thank you (as always) for sharing your perspective and insights. I think what you said about Dennis captures what we got to hear on Feel Flows.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Rocker on July 20, 2022, 09:54:24 AM
Good to see you, Stephen! I just had to think about you, 'cause "my" soccer team just lost against Kaiserslautern on the Betzenberg. If I remember correctly you mentioned that you was stationed around there.

I've nothing to add on-topic wise. Probably I mentioned it before, but this era of work ("Sunflower"/"Surf's Up" a.s.o.) feels so exciting and creative. To experience it in real time must've been something. And it's great to learn new things about the band's inner workings.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on July 21, 2022, 07:26:55 AM
Good to see you, Stephen! I just had to think about you, 'cause "my" soccer team just lost against Kaiserslautern on the Betzenberg. If I remember correctly you mentioned that you was stationed around there.

I've nothing to add on-topic wise. Probably I mentioned it before, but this era of work ("Sunflower"/"Surf's Up" a.s.o.) feels so exciting and creative. To experience it in real time must've been something. And it's great to learn new things about the band's inner workings.

COMMENT to Rocker:  Indeed, Kaiserslautern was my military home for three years. The US Army operates a large film studio complex in that historical town where I was stationed. Thank you for stirring the many fond memories of those times ... traveling around Europe making movies at Uncle Sam's expense.
The band's inner working is a complex, multi-layered, series of interactions that will be over-analyzed and scrutinized by generations yet unborn, and long after the band's existence. Fascinating, for sure.
  ~swd


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: DJ Mark David on October 18, 2022, 11:31:23 AM
After seeing how the Feel Flows CD boxes came down in price ($50!) since their release I’m considering waiting a bit with the Sail on Sailor box as well.


Title: Re: Feel Flows box set
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on March 12, 2024, 04:11:09 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/1bcesbj/the_beach_boys_seasons_in_the_sun_2019_alternate/