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Author Topic: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!  (Read 863180 times)
Zargo
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« Reply #6825 on: September 22, 2020, 07:54:22 PM »

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I canít find those quotes in the source provided. Iím assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org canít link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and itís another example of Mikeís support/involvement in the project:

ďAs a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group membersí strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.Ē

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.
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« Reply #6826 on: September 22, 2020, 09:03:25 PM »

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I canít find those quotes in the source provided. Iím assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org canít link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and itís another example of Mikeís support/involvement in the project:

ďAs a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group membersí strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.Ē

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things. 
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Zargo
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« Reply #6827 on: September 22, 2020, 09:52:09 PM »

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I canít find those quotes in the source provided. Iím assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org canít link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and itís another example of Mikeís support/involvement in the project:

ďAs a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group membersí strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.Ē

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things.  

I don't recall any of the Beach Boys "championing" too many releases outside of new solo albums, but I agree it would be nice if he did.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 10:05:42 PM by Zargo » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #6828 on: September 23, 2020, 08:18:38 AM »

Thanks, BBsCovers! For the life of me I canít find those quotes in the source provided. Iím assuming they are from page 2 of the rock cellar mag article which archive.org canít link to (and the original article is not found on Rock Cellars website). I found this quote on page 1 and itís another example of Mikeís support/involvement in the project:

ďAs a matter of fact, Mike was talking about how one of his dream projects would be a box set with one disc highlighting each of the group membersí strongest moments over the years, which is incidentally something that Mark (Linett) has been wanting to do for many years too.Ē

At this stage seven to eight years later with nothing to show of this "dream project", this story in retrospect really doesn't do Mike any favors.

I disagree. All sorts of projects, dream or otherwise get touted at some point and take a long time to (or never) to appear. It demonstrates a willingness to celebrate each Beach Boy individually and as something akin to equals. It doesn't quite fit the notion of Mike wanting to "be" the Beach Boys.

The point is that eight years later it hasn't happened,  Mike has NEVER mentioned it in an interview,  nor has he made any other moves to champion such things.  

I don't recall any of the Beach Boys "championing" too many releases outside of new solo albums, but I agree it would be nice if he did.

Exactly, the band members have often if not usually *not* seen the intrinsic value of their archives and of putting the music out for the sake of the music, and nothing more. They usually need some sort of outside impetus/motivation/lobbying, which is why I am so grateful for the folks working on these sets (Boyd, Linett, Edelson, and others in the past) doing so and making these things happen.

So I can't honestly give much credit to a band member one time, offhandedly on a whim mentioning some idea for a release like that. Of course everyone at one point or another *talks* about something that doesn't actually happen. A million things happen that can dictate that something one talks about doesn't end up happening. But in this case, the track record and evidence is that Mike Love has never shown a motivation to champion archival releases from scratch, or devising an idea and then working to make it happen. At best, he has *sometimes* supported things devised/worked on *by others* and signed off on those things. Which is great when it happens.

But no, I can't say with a straight face that Mike one time seven or eight years ago mentioning some idea for a boxed set is anything more than Mike one time offhandedly mentioning some idea.
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« Reply #6829 on: September 23, 2020, 09:31:46 AM »

I was really surprised when I saw the Mike&Bruce Beach Boys in summer 2017, and Mike never once mentioned the 1967 Sunshine Tomorrow archival set that was newly released. During intermission there was even a slideshow advertising Mike's book and other stuff for purchase, but no reference to it.

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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #6830 on: September 23, 2020, 10:01:34 AM »

I remember very well the case with Sunshine Tomorrow's release in the summer of 2017 and Mike's activities related to that release.

For those interested in more of that discussion, here is a discussion from that time which touched on that topic:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25259.0.html

For those not willing to read through a 3+ year old discussion, this is the recap.

"Sunshine Tomorrow" was released and got very positive response from the fans, as well as the music press who picked up the story. It literally did shed new light on what was a misunderstood and in some cases a misreported era of the band, and perhaps just as much an era of Brian Wilson's productions for the band. 2017 was of course the 50th anniversary of 1967's musical output, and knowing how this band/brand loves an anniversary, it was a good fit in terms of possible promotion too.

So the question I had then, and which others have raised in this current topic, was "Where was Mike Love?".

Mike and band appeared on a national broadcast of the July 4th concert. Mike had a chance to promote this archival set, a set featuring some truly stellar performances from Mike personally as well as the band as a whole, to a national TV audience full of potential buyers.

Mike said nothing about the 1967 release.

Instead, just days after "Sunshine Tomorrow" was released, Mike released his own music, a remake with a promo video shot in a hotel room, of "Do It Again" featuring Mark McGrath and John Stamos.

Mike promoted that on the TV broadcast, with both Stamos and McGrath on stage, as "our" new release. Not a word about the 1967 archival Beach Boys release that had dropped days earlier and was generating some buzz in the music press.

So the takeaway was watching the priorities play out for fans to see. The choice would be to promote both Sunshine Tomorrow and the Love-McGrath-Stamos release, or totally ignore the archival release and instead promote the Love solo release, and do so as "our new release", with the word our representing..."The Beach Boys" who played it on live TV for millions watching a holiday concert?

Mike of course chose the latter. And he piggybacked his own single release, the remake of a 49 year old Beach Boys classic, onto the release of archival material from 1967.

That's not the only time this happened, and yes once again it may be this one fan's personal hangup and gripe about the whole thing, but there is somewhat of a pattern behind this where Mike either ignores the archival material in favor of promoting his tours and touring band, or tries to piggyback his own releases onto something released featuring the original Beach Boys name and archival music.

Judge for yourself if the same deja vu will happen all over again, to paraphrase the great philosopher Yogi Berra.
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« Reply #6831 on: September 23, 2020, 10:45:04 AM »

I remember very well the case with Sunshine Tomorrow's release in the summer of 2017 and Mike's activities related to that release.

For those interested in more of that discussion, here is a discussion from that time which touched on that topic:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25259.0.html

For those not willing to read through a 3+ year old discussion, this is the recap.

"Sunshine Tomorrow" was released and got very positive response from the fans, as well as the music press who picked up the story. It literally did shed new light on what was a misunderstood and in some cases a misreported era of the band, and perhaps just as much an era of Brian Wilson's productions for the band. 2017 was of course the 50th anniversary of 1967's musical output, and knowing how this band/brand loves an anniversary, it was a good fit in terms of possible promotion too.

So the question I had then, and which others have raised in this current topic, was "Where was Mike Love?".

Mike and band appeared on a national broadcast of the July 4th concert. Mike had a chance to promote this archival set, a set featuring some truly stellar performances from Mike personally as well as the band as a whole, to a national TV audience full of potential buyers.

Mike said nothing about the 1967 release.

Instead, just days after "Sunshine Tomorrow" was released, Mike released his own music, a remake with a promo video shot in a hotel room, of "Do It Again" featuring Mark McGrath and John Stamos.

Mike promoted that on the TV broadcast, with both Stamos and McGrath on stage, as "our" new release. Not a word about the 1967 archival Beach Boys release that had dropped days earlier and was generating some buzz in the music press.

So the takeaway was watching the priorities play out for fans to see. The choice would be to promote both Sunshine Tomorrow and the Love-McGrath-Stamos release, or totally ignore the archival release and instead promote the Love solo release, and do so as "our new release", with the word our representing..."The Beach Boys" who played it on live TV for millions watching a holiday concert?

Mike of course chose the latter. And he piggybacked his own single release, the remake of a 49 year old Beach Boys classic, onto the release of archival material from 1967.

That's not the only time this happened, and yes once again it may be this one fan's personal hangup and gripe about the whole thing, but there is somewhat of a pattern behind this where Mike either ignores the archival material in favor of promoting his tours and touring band, or tries to piggyback his own releases onto something released featuring the original Beach Boys name and archival music.

Judge for yourself if the same deja vu will happen all over again, to paraphrase the great philosopher Yogi Berra.

I remember that well, and it was utterly shocking. 

This music from sunshine tomorrow was not only great music that was getting great reviews and positive reevaluation, but it was a rare instance where there was undeniably a great Brian Wilson AND Mike Love collab from years earlier that was getting a bunch of newfound public attention and praise, but somehow he chose to largely ignore that, and instead piggyback on BBs music being in the news by releasing utterly embarrassing new drek with McGrath, stuff that ranks among the absolute worst of the worst for him, and that's really saying something.

Trying to understand how his mind works is a very difficult thing, but all I can think of is that he thought a remake would gain traction and get him a bunch of accolades from the M&B-attending meat and potatoes crowd. And that archival stuff, no matter how highly reviewed, would not.

That's certainly a disturbing yet plausible theory about what's happening here, if it comes down to him being obsessed with branding the band in a certain way and not having the public focused on stuff that doesn't have the "classic" sound that low-information fans are most familiar with. And i'm surprised Mike doesn't have a line of stage banter that says "I love the poorly educated".
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« Reply #6832 on: September 23, 2020, 12:41:34 PM »

The mismatch between "the band" as it exists historically and the branded touring operation using the name is always going to be a problem.

There's no precise, perfect way to balance those two things; it's a flawed, dysfunctional set up that is a result of historically flawed (or non) management and various band members not protecting the legacy properly. But they certainly could have and still could do better than they have in trying to keep a "touring band" going while also keeping the historical "band" going as an artistic force via archival releases, etc.

Mike just doesn't try. In the aftermath of 1998, he went out of his way to *not* associate his touring brand with former members. There was a good number of years there where Mike almost never even *mentioned* Al's name let alone talked about *working* with Al again.

In more recent years, it might seem like Mike has softened on this stance, using old footage on screens at his shows of former band members, etc. But all he has really done is found the limits to how much he can *use* those elements of the band's legacy without it hurting his current touring band which doesn't match that legacy at all (in a literal sense; it doesn't have the same members).

2020 has mostly been a dead year for every element of the band and its branding (both the historical group and Mike's touring brand). They've been lying dormant now for over six months, and what do we have to show for it? An embarrassing single from Mike, a bunch of  "Throwback Thursday!!!!" posts from Brian and Al on social media, and a hand full of Mike concerts that are of questionable safety.

There are a hundred things the *brand* could have done over the last six months to keep themselves and fans active, even if the band members don't want to actually do anything *together*. If they were willing to actually work together, there are a thousand things they could have done.

But nothing. A beautiful boxed set ready to go, and instead we get drive-in-theater Mike gigs and "anniversary reviews" of old albums in fanzines.

Al has had his own studio literally a 10-second walk from his front door for over 40 years now, and he almost never puts anything out. Wtf?

And it isn't only band members. Where's Carl's estate? I'm not even talking about BRI activities/votes. Surely Carl has solo demos and things like that that could have been released. Has Dennis's family tried to make any Dennis releases happen?

With the partial exception of Brian who has at least remained relatively active on various levels (even if sometimes solo), I'm not willing to give much of anybody in that organization credit for actively spearheading much of *anything* to do with their archive or legacy, and certainly not Mike for one time eight years ago offhandedly mentioning an idea for a set (and for all we know, his vision for even *that* set may have involved mostly just a repackage of previously released songs).
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« Reply #6833 on: September 23, 2020, 12:57:38 PM »

Agree with all of this, HeyJude. It is completely dysfunctional.  Sad

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« Reply #6834 on: September 25, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »

Do you ever wonder if you are reading too much into an off-hand quote Mark made 7 years ago.
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