Smiley Smile

[I. Spaceman]

I think you guys are twisting the facts. Why isn't Brian credited as the sole producer if he had complete control? When Brian is credited as Sole producer, brians stamp is all over it. Everything up to Pet Sounds and the Smile sessions. And then boom a weird change of direction when brian isn't a sole producer on Smiley. And then finally when brian is credited as sole producer on Love you, the magic is back, his stamp is all over it. And not so much on any of the other records. 

HAVE YOU HEARD THE SESSIONS?

Brian is as in control there as any sessions before that.
His stamp is all over SMiLEY. What BB records that Brian did not produce sound remotely like it?
There's plenty of other Brian stuff that sounds exactly of a piece.
The BB's wanted to do stuff like I Can Hear Music. Brian wanted spare minimalism.

[mike8902]

I've heard some of the smiley sessions not all. And again, he had control but not COMPLETE control. He abandoned his brilliant complex ideas because "No one wants to help me look for places, where new things might be found."

[I. Spaceman]

SMiLEY is a different complexity. The vocals are just as, if not more, complex, than anything the band did. He wanted to highlight the voices, not obscure them with music, as a reaction to his feelings that with SMiLE he had (direct quote) "gotten into a bag that was no fodaing good for vocals".

[mike8902]

It's true that the Smile Vocal parts aren't as complex as their earlier material, but the music really really shines. The Smile version vocals of the songs are very neat and tidy, where the smiley smile versions sound off-beat at times and not well rehearsed.

[Jason]

It's true that the Smile Vocal parts aren't as complex as their earlier material, but the music really really shines. The Smile version vocals of the songs are very neat and tidy, where the smiley smile versions sound off-beat at times and not well rehearsed.

Smile vocals aren't as complex as the earlier material? I have to disagree, man. The Smile vocals are their most complicated vocals. If you listen to the sessions, they would go over tiny sections as many as 50 times before Brian was satisfied.

[mike8902]

Don't get me wrong I think they are complex. But I think like "And your dreams come true" and the today vocal arrangements are more complex than the smile vocals(minus Our Prayer), because Today and their earlier stuff focused mainly on the vocal parts, and smile was a double-whammy of music and vocals.

[Jason]

Smile focused almost entirely on the vocals, Smile's music isn't really complex, either in its chording or its production. A lot of the tunes are three-chord jams that you could do on a few acoustic guitars. Pet Sounds has more intricate music, but Smile has more intricate vocal parts.

[mike8902]

Well yes, the chord structure is simple but the layering of the smile music is what's complex. There are so many things going on. I agree that pet sounds had much more intricate music. Aside from Our Prayer and Heroes and Villains, they've done more complex vocal arrangements. Their earlier vocal work had a lot of 5 part harmonies, and you don't see it as much on Smile.

[Jason]

I don't think there's much going on in the Smile productions. Not as layered as Pet Sounds' tracks were. Guitar, bass, piano, organ, harpsichord, drums, occasional string sections, percussion. Nothing you can't find on Pet Sounds, but used sparingly.

[mike8902]

What about Cabin Essence? The "Who Ran the Iron Horse" part I think there is a ton of stuff going on. I agree that it's not as layered as Pet Sounds, and that's what makes Smile more accessible.

[Jason]

All I hear on Cabin Essence are fuzz bass, cello, percussion, and maybe a guitar.

[I. Spaceman]

I hear string bass, and more.

[mike8902]

I meant to include the grand coulle part also.  drums, a clownhorn type instrument, guitar, fuzz bass, a guitar hitting the strings on the very head of the guitar to make it sound like a railroad crossing, the vocals sweeping up and down some weird scale, tambourine,strings. I would say that's pretty layered, but not as much as pet sounds of course. 

[I. Spaceman]

Why does something having MORE sound-layers automatically make it superior to your ears?

[Jason]

Exactly.

[mike8902]

Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like sh*t.

[mike8902]

OOO OWNEEEEEDDD

[Jason]

Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like merda.

Not telling you how I think, the exactly was directed at you.

Layers don't mean sh*t, what matters is a good song. Both Pet Sounds and Smile have them. The Smile songs on Smiley Smile are still the songs.

[mike8902]

I was referring to ian about the telling me how I think.

[Jason]

Ahhhhhhhhh.

[I. Spaceman]

Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like merda.

You are contradicting yourself, asswipe, because you praise Brian's layered productions while denying him the true complexity of trying different things on different records.
SMiLE is mostly comprised of droning 2 and 3-chord hypnotic patterns. The 66 production attempts to distract from this with bells and whistles. Brian got honest with SMiLEY and produced tracks that are true to the spirit of the compositions, as the PS productions are true to the spirit of truly complex, symphonic chordal patterns.
You want Brian to be complex? Try Girls On The Beach, for my money the most head-spinningly modal song he ever composed.

[mike8902]

Well we're back to the point. Brian WAS doing something different than pet sounds. Smile would've been a much better approach than smiley smile. He could've done a smiley smile type album after he released the real smile. I'm just angry that Smile was sacrificed for that album.

And I agree that Girls on the Beach has brians most interesting chord changes. Simply Brilliant.

[I. Spaceman]

OK then!
Let's move on to posting about what you DO like.
You see, the reason you got such a harsh welcome here is that you made your first posts harshly attacking something many people hold dear. That, my friend, is the definition of a troll.
Tell us what you love, show your knowledge, THEN tell us what you don't like, and we'll all take it well.
Become a valued member of the board, I would welcome that.

[Jason]

Me too, man. I'm enjoying this conversation here. You guys definitely have some potential for some great conversations here.

[mike8902]

Hahah well I had to get it out of my system. I just really haven't met anyone I know that likes smiley smile and then I came to the board and so all this praise and I had to express my opinion. You guys shouldn't be so harsh off the bat, we're all on this board for some sort of debate, so let's start off like that!