The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => 1960's Beach Boys Albums => Topic started by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on December 24, 2005, 12:14:35 PM



Title: Smiley Smile
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on December 24, 2005, 12:14:35 PM
Discuss, review and rate Smiley Smile, released September 1967.

(http://www.smileysmile.net/images/albums/smileysmile.gif)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 24, 2005, 01:44:08 PM
Fascinating. Utterly fascinating. 5 stars all the way.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on December 24, 2005, 01:46:23 PM
Not a favorite, but it is the disc (after Pet Sounds) that shoved me out of my little condescending "Beach Boys are a silly, simple surf group" mentality.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 24, 2005, 03:13:11 PM
My favorite BB album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: st2580smile on December 25, 2005, 04:37:55 PM
Have to admit. My favorite.
True zen rock.
Need more.
Wore out several copies.
Then again, I'm strange.
Pete


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: JRauch on December 26, 2005, 03:47:12 AM
A creepy, strange, interesting, haunting and moving record. And only a shadow of SMiLE.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on December 27, 2005, 05:00:19 AM
There really ain't nothing like it... But not everything on it can be liked.

Getting Hungry (moments of the verse aside) is simply crap... and the album does sound half assed, it comes and goes...  Very few of the tracks have any real emotional ressonance... The humming on "Little Pad", the coda of "Windchimes" are notable exceptions.

It almost seems too "intellectual" in that sense, but then, "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" do to me too...  I can't help 'thinking' while I'm listening to it, because there isn't much for me to emotionally cling to... I just don't "respond" to the album at all in that sense.

That said, I think it's a fine album... fer what it is.

3 stars.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on December 27, 2005, 09:18:14 AM
Definitely not a bunt. Not a Grandslam. I'd say Homerun, certainly! This is the LP that made me realize the Beach Boys were more that the hit tunes. I like the scaled back production making it beautiful in a different way than SMiLE would have been. It unfortunately has to dwell in the shadows SMiLE and people can't hear it for what it is. I'm with Ian... One of my faves, too! Woody Woodpecker Symphony seals the deal!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SurferGirl7 on December 27, 2005, 11:51:48 AM
Strange album. I can see why people didn't like it.  :-\






Two stars. A good album to put on 45 speed though  :D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: donald on December 27, 2005, 01:38:24 PM
I've always thought it was Brians way of responding to and fucking with the naysayers, critics, and those who only payed attention to the money making pop singles.

I do like woody woodpecker


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 02:04:32 PM
I'll actually call it worse than Carl. It's a strike out. Whiffing.

 ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 27, 2005, 04:21:04 PM
Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it. Same with Love You.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 04:22:01 PM
Thank you for speaking the truth without apologies.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 27, 2005, 04:29:30 PM
Thank you for speaking the truth without apologies.

f*** sugarcoating.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 04:30:57 PM
Quote
f*** sugarcoating.

Except on girlfriends. Yummy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 27, 2005, 04:32:13 PM
Quote
f*** sugarcoating.

Except on girlfriends. Yummy.

Amen brother.

I love the lack of filters on this board. Free speech returns with a vengeance!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 04:55:05 PM
Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it. Same with Love You.

Well, I happen to like Love You, so that won't work with me.

I still think Smiley sucks.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 05:53:01 PM
Well, it really doesn't!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 06:08:51 PM
haha.

 ;)

It's the least played Beach Boys' record I own. That's probably why I say that, for one.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 06:15:16 PM
Yeah, it's #1 for me, but I'm weird.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 06:16:11 PM
Why, man, why?

How could listen to 'Gettin' Hungry' repeatedly?



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 06:19:03 PM
It's the album I have turned more people on to the BB's with than any other. It's the one that fried my brain. It's TRULY psychedelic. It's truly angry. It's the album that SMiLE WAS!
I love every single second.
It belongs on the shelf with Syd Barrett and Roky Erickson. It's the sound of a disintegrating consciousness.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 06:27:00 PM
I don't know how anybody could be turned onto the Beach Boys with that record.

That's like saying you could turn somebody onto Paul McCartney by playing 'Freedom'.

 :D



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 06:31:47 PM
It's really not. Seriously. It's Pete Townshend and Robbie Robertson's favorite BB album. And mine.
Some people prefer the BB's to be square and un-weird I guess. That's why SMiLE was canned. And why he made an even weirder one to spite everyone.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 06:38:08 PM
It probably has something to do with the fact that I find the Today! and Pet Sounds albums to be unmatched in Brian's catalogue. That's the type of material that I think suits him best.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 06:45:27 PM
It probably has something to do with the fact that I find the Today! and Pet Sounds albums to be unmatched in Brian's catalogue. That's the type of material that I think suits him best.



I think his creativity knows no limits. He can do it all, from pop to rock to white soul to jazzy things to avant-pop progressivism.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on December 27, 2005, 06:50:53 PM
I'm really digging this argument guys, I'm somewhere between the two of you... but it's great to see such opposing views without insults bandied around everywhere...

Keep it up, you fags.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 06:54:36 PM
Ain't no argument, my man, just a respectful disagreement among intellectual peers.
You shrimp-barbyin' makeup-wearin' Finn-worshippin' fool!  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 27, 2005, 07:02:16 PM
I respect you guys for lovin' Smiley Smile.  ;)

But when I put it on in the car to maybe give it another chance, it goes something like this.

Heroes and Villains comes on. I listen to about half of that. I skip the track because I've heard it so often.

Vegetables comes on. I love that thumping that Brian's doing on the bass. So simple, yet I love it. I liked the spliced in section of the original Smile version.

Fall Breaks comes on. I listen to that...

Then I start to wonder what the hell is going on...

hehe


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 07:03:17 PM
I respect you guys for lovin' Smiley Smile.  ;)

But when I put it on in the car to maybe give it another chance, it goes something like this.

Heroes and Villains comes on. I listen to about half of that. I skip the track because I've heard it so often.

Vegetables comes on. I love that thumping that Brian's doing on the bass. So simple, yet I love it. I liked the spliced in section of the original Smile version.

Fall Breaks comes on. I listen to that...

Then I start to wonder what the hell is going on...

hehe

You know, that's exactly my reaction too!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SurferGirl7 on December 27, 2005, 07:49:12 PM
Those who don't like Smiley Smile don't get it. Same with Love You.


Oh I get it but have you ever seen this article: http://earcandymag.com/humorsmileysmile.htm 

To me that sums up why I don't like it. It's too sarcastic in my opinion.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 07:50:49 PM
One of the best pieces of rock writing I have read. By my man Chris.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on December 27, 2005, 08:30:42 PM
I don't know how anybody could be turned onto the Beach Boys with that record.
Worked for me! Spirit of America, a Ronco Greatest Hits package & Surfin Safari were the first 3 I owned. Then came Smiley Smile. I had to dig deeper. I thought the same... what-in-the-hell-is-going-on??? Then it clicked. Then it stuck. Then it deranged. Then it helped derail. Then came the onset of obsession & quest for more treasures. Dig in my good friend Einey, dig in.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 27, 2005, 08:33:22 PM
Quote
Then it clicked. Then it stuck. Then it deranged. Then it helped derail.

An autobiography, by Rip Taylor.

Great description of a classic.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on December 28, 2005, 04:59:25 AM
Imo, one of the challenges of being a Brian/Beach Boys fan.  An acquired taste and underappreciated [because of a bad rep as a settle or bunt?] as it exists now, but a sorta stereo  ;) or non-muddy mono mix release would bring out all the deceptively simplistic complexity and give this baby a whole life imo.  Maybe as a bonus on the twofer?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: donald on December 28, 2005, 11:21:38 AM
Perhaps we should bring back foda.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 29, 2005, 06:33:05 AM
Foda has its own inimitable charm. As does merda.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on December 29, 2005, 09:10:07 AM
fodaing... that makes me laugh !!!  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: pins on December 29, 2005, 09:50:52 AM
i love smiley smile, but i can certainly see why some people don't.  i think it's very understated, and of course far removed from pet sounds (and i'm sure at least a little bit of a disappointment for those expecting SMiLE).  nevertheless, i find it to be a very charming record.  i like the stripped down, unfinished feel of it.  when i first heard it i was fascinated.  this probably sounds stupid, but it really made me appreciate the beach boys vocal harmonies more than ever.  until i heard smiley smile all i'd listened to was pet sounds and friends/20/20 - but on smiley smile, many of the songs are just vocals accompanied by one or two instruments and they basically hold the songs together.  maybe this doesn't make sense, i don't know.  ;)

the only song on smiley smile i can't listen to all the way through is 'wind chimes'.  i actually really like the style of it, but it's just a bit too out of tune/'experimental' for me (not forgetting the evil/scary chord in the middle of it that makes me jump out of my skin every time i hear it).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on December 30, 2005, 05:19:05 AM
It was the first BB album I heard. I always thought it sounded a little phony, kind of like when they posed as hippies in the seventies. To me they always sounded a little lost, as if they were trying to get into a new style, that they couldn't really fathom, so they made some funny noises to make it "avantgarde". "Fall Breaks" is the best track, but some of it like "With me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sounds very undeveloped, the kind of stuff that might pop into the head of any songwriter, when they sat down at a piano. Three stars.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on December 30, 2005, 05:34:25 AM
"With me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sounds very undeveloped, the kind of stuff that might pop into the head of any songwriter, when they sat down at a piano.

Damnit, I wish something that good would pop into my head when I sat at my piana. :(


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on December 30, 2005, 06:32:17 AM
"With me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sounds very undeveloped, the kind of stuff that might pop into the head of any songwriter, when they sat down at a piano.

Damnit, I wish something that good would pop into my head when I sat at my piana. :(

Okay, what can I say without insulting you, but to me it just sounds tired. "With Me Tonight" sounds like some very basic barbershop and "Whistle In" sounds like an attempt to ape a McCartney-march like "Penny Lane", but without mustering McCartneys melodic inventiveness. People compare "Smiley" to "Love You" and to me one of the differences is that even though "Love You" isn't perfect, there's a feeling of resistance and trying to do something, on "Smiley" it's just like they're going through the motions.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 30, 2005, 10:49:03 AM
Quote
Okay, what can I say without insulting you

Oh, Soren, how I didn't miss you on this board.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 30, 2005, 01:05:07 PM
Smiley just sounds like they didn't give a sh*t.

That's another reason I don't like 95% of it.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 30, 2005, 01:06:29 PM
Smiley just sounds like they didn't give a merda.

That's Keepin' the Summer Alive.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on December 30, 2005, 01:07:18 PM
Yeah, that one too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 30, 2005, 01:24:10 PM
Smiley just sounds like they didn't give a merda.

That's another reason I don't like 95% of it.



I think they really did, but about a different thing. The sessions sound very controlled and purposeful to me. And the Silver Platter Service interview following the album indicates that the vibe and sound was a definite artistic decision.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on December 30, 2005, 04:02:01 PM
Quote
Okay, what can I say without insulting you

Oh, Soren, how I didn't miss you on this board.

Yeah okay, it did come out harsher than I meant it, I'm sorry, I was in a hurry if that's an excuse.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 30, 2005, 04:03:56 PM


Yeah okay, it did come out harsher than I meant it, I'm sorry, I was in a hurry if that's an excuse.

Søren

No excuse for nastiness.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on December 31, 2005, 01:50:17 AM


Yeah okay, it did come out harsher than I meant it, I'm sorry, I was in a hurry if that's an excuse.

Søren

No excuse for nastiness.

No of course not. It just came out nastier than I intended, sorry bout that.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on December 31, 2005, 03:33:41 AM
Smiley just sounds like they didn't give a merda.

That's another reason I don't like 95% of it.



I think they really did, but about a different thing. The sessions sound very controlled and purposeful to me. And the Silver Platter Service interview following the album indicates that the vibe and sound was a definite artistic decision.

Is it really a "don't give a merda" rush job if it took 14 instru sessions to produce 10 songs when the norm was 3 or maybe 4 instru sessions to produce 10 songs? Is 300+% or 400+% over-production really a rush job?

Less is more often.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 31, 2005, 10:18:19 AM
Exactly, and it was meant to be spare. Do you need two months to make that version of Vegetables?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on December 31, 2005, 12:04:25 PM
"With me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sounds very undeveloped, the kind of stuff that might pop into the head of any songwriter, when they sat down at a piano.

Damnit, I wish something that good would pop into my head when I sat at my piana. :(

Same here.  And it isn't that different from the Smile version.  I think the real problem people have with Smiley is that it ruins the image they want of the Beach Boys, and as I've said before, shows antagonism for the fan instead of being peaceful and mildly different like Friends or 20/20.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on December 31, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Exactly.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on December 31, 2005, 07:54:45 PM
Someone awhile ago said that everyday after work he'd get home and listen to Smiley Smile just to chill out and feel good. I think that's one of the greatest compliments an album can recieve.

I feel the same way about it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on December 31, 2005, 07:55:16 PM
Smiley Smile is best appreciated when it's listened to in the dark. Seriously. Try it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 01, 2006, 12:50:46 AM
Same with Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on January 01, 2006, 02:26:10 AM
Is it really a "don't give a merda" rush job if it took 14 instru sessions to produce 10 songs when the norm was 3 or maybe 4 instru sessions to produce 10 songs? Is 300+% or 400+% over-production really a rush job?

Less is more often.

I haven't heard the Smiley sessions tapes, but could it be that like Smile, Brian simply had no idea how Smiley was going to fit together... or even sound?

Also, I imagine the drugs no doubt f***ed up the instrumental sessions a whole lot...  Alot of piss-farting I'd presume.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 01, 2006, 03:08:51 AM
Since when is f***ed-up a bad thing?
Maybe he wanted a bizarre, disconnected and avant feel. Ya think maybe Brian Wilson knew exactly what he was doing? Or maybe he wanted to present an accurate musical picture of where his head was at, disturbed and out-of-focus.
Either way, he acheived his goals.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on January 01, 2006, 03:31:52 AM
The Beach Boys played most of the instrumental tracks?  And were stoned out of their minds... I can imagine it taking a long time is all.  They didn't appear to be particularly dynamic at the time from what I've read, so whether it was intended as a 'dont give a merda rush job' I don't know... it may have been, and that could have been one of Brians goals.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 01, 2006, 04:03:49 AM
There isn't much in the way of instrumental tracks. Most of the songs contain extremely bare, stark instrumentation, and they already knew a lot of vocal parts.
There doesn't seem to be much reason the album would take that much longer to record than, say, the Party or Surfin' USA albums.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on January 01, 2006, 09:18:16 AM
"With me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sounds very undeveloped, the kind of stuff that might pop into the head of any songwriter, when they sat down at a piano.

Damnit, I wish something that good would pop into my head when I sat at my piana. :(

Same here.  And it isn't that different from the Smile version.  I think the real problem people have with Smiley is that it ruins the image they want of the Beach Boys, and as I've said before, shows antagonism for the fan instead of being peaceful and mildly different like Friends or 20/20.

I think people are underestimating themselves, to me songs like "With Me Tonight" and "Whistle In" sound like something most people could come up with. Maybe  they would have worked as fragments in a bigger context,  but I don't  think they are very good as stand alone pieces. The image of BB's have been ruined time and time again, by the various incarnations they have appeared in, so I doubt if that's the  problem that some people could have with "Smiley Smile", at least if they know the entire output of the group. I don't know if the problem with Smiley is, that it was worked into the ground, sort of like the H&V single, which ended up sounding very undynamic. It's a little like "Vegetables" where I think you have a very good version on the "Hawthorne" compilation, where they include some more chords in the part where they're scatting and it sounds really good and opens up the song, but for some reason it was edited out of the "Smiley" version. Maybe that was one of Brians problems at the time, that he was so afraid of sticking out, that he edited everything down to a point, where less isn't more, it's just less. At any rate that's how I think Smiley sounds, flat, castrated and claustrophobic.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 01, 2006, 01:11:15 PM
You, again, are just explaining the greatness of the album.
Yes, you or I COULD have written Whistle In. But we didn't, or anything comparable.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 01, 2006, 04:51:52 PM
Quote
The image of BB's have been ruined time and time again, by the various incarnations they have appeared in, so I doubt if that's the  problem that some people could have with "Smiley Smile", at least if they know the entire output of the group.

Right, but people here constantly complain about their particular image of the group being ruined.  It's a huge issue, not just a given.  Some people have a problem with the Mike Love Beach Boys, and think he's ruined the group's image as intelligent songwriters.  Others seem to hate Smiley Smile for forcing them to really analyze what sounds like "half-assed" noise instead of just drooling over the same, easy, old bits over and over again ("That tag from 'Fun Fun Fun,' far out!").  If Brian was trying to compete with the best of the 60s, he succeeded with Smiley Smile so much that it hurt.  It makes the Smile fans look traditional, and I think that's the problem people have with Smiley Smile.  A lot of fans like to gush about Brian's perfectionism and the layers of hidden complexity in his best known songs.  I think they resent him for putting out an album that is as beautiful as anything he wrote earlier but sounds, superficially, like amateur work.  It fucks with the Brian Wilson image too much by showing him as a creative guy willing to put one over on his fans to see why they really liked him in the first place.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 01, 2006, 05:41:55 PM
You're batting a thousand today, Chris.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 01, 2006, 06:07:06 PM

Right, but people here constantly complain about their particular image of the group being ruined.  It's a huge issue, not just a given.  Some people have a problem with the Mike Love Beach Boys, and think he's ruined the group's image as intelligent songwriters.  Others seem to hate Smiley Smile for forcing them to really analyze what sounds like "half-assed" noise instead of just drooling over the same, easy, old bits over and over again ("That tag from 'Fun Fun Fun,' far out!").  If Brian was trying to compete with the best of the 60s, he succeeded with Smiley Smile so much that it hurt.  It makes the Smile fans look traditional, and I think that's the problem people have with Smiley Smile.  A lot of fans like to gush about Brian's perfectionism and the layers of hidden complexity in his best known songs.  I think they resent him for putting out an album that is as beautiful as anything he wrote earlier but sounds, superficially, like amateur work.  It fodas with the Brian Wilson image too much by showing him as a creative guy willing to put one over on his fans to see why they really liked him in the first place.

You all see this post? Yeah this one, right here. He gets it. All you nay-sayers don't get it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 01, 2006, 06:15:01 PM
Thanks babiez.  I kn0w u b3 pl4y1n h4rdb4ll w1t th1z bunt 2.  Same to you, Jason.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 01, 2006, 06:42:24 PM
Chris D. =  8)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on January 01, 2006, 10:49:44 PM
When I first listened to Smiley Smile, I thought it was really cool because most of the songs sounded really off; it was a favorite to play in front of my friends and say, "This is the Beach Boys". Now, I really have no desire to listen to it, and when I do, I get bored towards the end, even though I like all the songs.

3/5, but still my least favorite Beach Boys album (keep in mind, I haven't heard any of their 70s stuff yet)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on January 02, 2006, 10:25:01 AM
Quote
The image of BB's have been ruined time and time again, by the various incarnations they have appeared in, so I doubt if that's the  problem that some people could have with "Smiley Smile", at least if they know the entire output of the group.

Right, but people here constantly complain about their particular image of the group being ruined.  It's a huge issue, not just a given.  Some people have a problem with the Mike Love Beach Boys, and think he's ruined the group's image as intelligent songwriters.  Others seem to hate Smiley Smile for forcing them to really analyze what sounds like "half-assed" noise instead of just drooling over the same, easy, old bits over and over again ("That tag from 'Fun Fun Fun,' far out!").  If Brian was trying to compete with the best of the 60s, he succeeded with Smiley Smile so much that it hurt.  It makes the Smile fans look traditional, and I think that's the problem people have with Smiley Smile.  A lot of fans like to gush about Brian's perfectionism and the layers of hidden complexity in his best known songs.  I think they resent him for putting out an album that is as beautiful as anything he wrote earlier but sounds, superficially, like amateur work.  It fodas with the Brian Wilson image too much by showing him as a creative guy willing to put one over on his fans to see why they really liked him in the first place.

How about the fans that just think the album sucks? The same fans who like Pet Sounds and Wild Honey, but don't like the crap inbetween the two?



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 10:37:17 AM
I put on Smiley Smile for the first time in quite a while--I don't want to guess how long--and recall now the same feelings I had when I first bought it (having had some vague understanding that Brian Wilson wasn't a silly surfer and was about to release a masterpiece, only to instea,d fade away and release lesser albums with hints and clues--not really correct, but my impetus to listen at the time).

"Damn, this isn't what I expected at all. It's...weird...creepy... I'm going to listen to it again...fascinating."

I still don't rank it among the band's best albums, but I am very interested by it. The juxtaposition of a few fully developed singles with minimalist versions of songs (themselves developed to varying degrees) makes me as a listener question what it is I'm looking for in this or any other album. Obviously, for many listeners, this won't be rewarding, because what they are looking for are "Brian Wilson productions," meaning full band harmonies, big instrumental tracks and the like. Breaking down songs to their essences--a line here, a melody there, an overwhelming bass part played on the organ and bass guitar everywhere and maybe this or that harmony--is a somewhat exciting insight into the mind of the composer. It's "MTV Unplugged" a couple of decades early: break things down and get to the heart of the matter.

And on the less intellectual level, I laugh half a dozen times or more in a full listening to Smiley Smile--no, I'm not smoking while I'm laughing ( ;))--and that matters, too. Perhaps Smiley Smile is just stoned guys having fun, but when one of those guys is a brilliant composer and the others are talented musicians in their own rights, that makes for a fine album. It's fun.

I still rank it well below my favorites: the Smile tracks, Pet Sounds, Today!, Friends, Love You, Holland, Surf's Up, and Summer Days and Summer Nights. But I do rank it right with those next albums, which for me would be Wild Honey, Surfer Girl, All Summer Long, etc.  There is plenty to love, and doing so doesn't take anything away from my love of other, wholly different albums.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: andy on January 02, 2006, 10:47:52 AM
I think it's essential listening. Easily 5 stars.

And I don't think there many albums that deserve a full remix treatment as much as this one does. The Beach Boys at their vocal timbre peak, imo. Breathless.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 10:51:52 AM
Oh yeah, and for those who were knocking With Me Tonight earlier in the thread as something anyone could have written, I really, really disagree. I think it's among the most beautiful pieces of music and best recorded vocal bits I've ever heard. I absolutely love it, and it is one of my favorite Brian Wilson songs. It is a perfect combination of Brian's influences, with doo-wop and spirituality all wrapped up together into a piece of music that is every bit as affecting as Our Prayer. As anyone in the stomach-ache thread knows, I am somewhere in the agnostic range, but it is this sort of Brian Wilson piece that makes me feel, if not believe in, God.

(Oh, and the "good" cracks me up, because it sounds like Zappa's voice.")


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 02, 2006, 10:56:38 AM


And on the less intellectual level, I laugh half a dozen times or more in a full listening to Smiley Smile--no, I'm not smoking while I'm laughing ( ;))--and that matters, too. Perhaps Smiley Smile is just stoned guys having fun, but when one of those guys is a brilliant composer and the others are talented musicians in their own rights, that makes for a fine album. It's fun.




Yes!

If Brian Wilson's genius only lent its hand to huge Pet Sounds-like things then i'd get fed up soon.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: brother john on January 02, 2006, 11:03:28 AM
The problem with Smiley Smile, as I see it, is partly that its all in mono, at a time when most other artists were releasing records in stereo, but also that the mixing/mastering gives it such a dull sheen. Listening to the released version is akin to sticking your head in a bucket of glue while listening.

I know it's a pretty challenging album due to the eccentricty and surrealism of its tracks, but I heard a fan mix in stereo a year or two ago (thanks to a saint on this board - god knows where he got it from) and it REALLY opened my eyes to it. This version just sprays over the released one: its so much more dynamic, and I fell in love with it at first listen. IMHO this is probably nearer to what Brian envisaged Smile as being. I know it'll never happen, but, under the auspices of one our favourite experts, Mr Desper perhaps, it should be re-mixed a re-released. Good god! Lots of people do re-mixes of other peoples' work, and this album would just blow people away if was heard in a more sympathetic format.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 11:05:37 AM
Listening to the released version is akin to sticking your head in a bucket of glue while listening.

Maybe that would make listeners appreciate it properly...

 :D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: brother john on January 02, 2006, 11:15:11 AM
Listening to the released version is akin to sticking your head in a bucket of glue while listening.

Maybe that would make listeners appreciate it properly...

 :D

I'd just like to say Listen again, before going on to say that sticking your head in a big bucket of weed might also be a potential enhancener for the uninitiated listener... ;) :o :P


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 12:19:20 PM
Quote
The image of BB's have been ruined time and time again, by the various incarnations they have appeared in, so I doubt if that's the  problem that some people could have with "Smiley Smile", at least if they know the entire output of the group.

Right, but people here constantly complain about their particular image of the group being ruined.  It's a huge issue, not just a given.  Some people have a problem with the Mike Love Beach Boys, and think he's ruined the group's image as intelligent songwriters.  Others seem to hate Smiley Smile for forcing them to really analyze what sounds like "half-assed" noise instead of just drooling over the same, easy, old bits over and over again ("That tag from 'Fun Fun Fun,' far out!").  If Brian was trying to compete with the best of the 60s, he succeeded with Smiley Smile so much that it hurt.  It makes the Smile fans look traditional, and I think that's the problem people have with Smiley Smile.  A lot of fans like to gush about Brian's perfectionism and the layers of hidden complexity in his best known songs.  I think they resent him for putting out an album that is as beautiful as anything he wrote earlier but sounds, superficially, like amateur work.  It fodas with the Brian Wilson image too much by showing him as a creative guy willing to put one over on his fans to see why they really liked him in the first place.

How about the fans that just think the album sucks? The same fans who like Pet Sounds and Wild Honey, but don't like the crap inbetween the two?




Yep, those are exactly the type of morons Chris is talking about.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 12:30:00 PM
Quote
How about the fans that just think the album sucks? The same fans who like Pet Sounds and Wild Honey, but don't like the crap inbetween the two?

You can never "just" like or dislike something.  There are always reasons, whether you try to figure them out or not.  If you have serious emotional problems you go to a psychologist to figure them out, right?  So why not try to understand why you react a certain way to this album?  I think if fans just want to be lazy and say the album just sucks, they don't deserve to listen to any music.   That's the same mentality that killed Smile, the album that is the reason for this site existing in the first place.  And that's something I'll never get about a lot of Beach Boys fans.  Somehow many Smile fans are able to praise Brian's "weird" lost music while totally trashing the amazing, "weird" stuff he actually finished ("Smiley Smile," "Love You").  That kind of mentality makes the Beach Boys looking outdated and boring to non-fans more than Mike Love ever could.

As for a remix, I don't begrudge people wanting to hear the music differently, but I think the album's non-dynamic sound is part of the whole concept.  Marilyn said Brian's reaction to the Beach Boys' dismissal of Smile was something like "You think you can do it better, go ahead assholes," and Smiley Smile was his way of saying it -- not just to the band but also to the fans.  It's like Brian is saying, "You think I'm cracking emotionally and out-of-control?  Here's out-of-control for you."  The music just wouldn't be right conceptually if it was exciting in the same way as "Surfin' Safari" or "Little Honda" or any of those earlier songs.  I don't think any 60s band would have had the guts to put out something so counter to their image as this is.  At least not any major chart acts.  Coming after Pet Sounds and Smile it makes you wonder why people were upset that Dylan went electric.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 12:31:15 PM
I think if fans just want to be lazy and say the album just sucks, they don't deserve to listen to any music.

I'm not sure if I could disagree with any statement about music more than I do that one.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 12:31:42 PM
Although it would fit in quite well on a Cecil Taylor message board.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 12:37:19 PM
He's totally right, of course.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 12:38:01 PM
Which of us is right?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 12:42:51 PM
Chris D.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 12:46:10 PM
Well, damnit, now I need to disagree with both of you.  It is the most pretentious of sentiments for an artist to expect that an audience "do homework" for his or her art's sake. If an audience wants to study it, fine. But to expect it? Where do you get off?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 12:49:18 PM
That's not what he said, at all.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 12:54:07 PM
I think if fans just want to be lazy and say the album just sucks, they don't deserve to listen to any music.

To insist that a fan who has a negative reaction toward music take the time to reason him- or herself through it and explain on some detailed level why that may be seems awfully pretentious of an artist. If someone likes it and doesn't know why, fine. If someone hates it and doesn't know why, fine. No analysis is required.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 01:00:08 PM
No, if someone is dealing with music negatively or positively on a purely reactionary level, then pretending it's analysis, that's the problem.
If Joe Blow heras it and goes "It's weird, huh-huh, it sucks!" that's one thing. But on a review thread where we are here for the express purpose of studied analysis, it damn well is the time to analyse closely what someone's real reasons are for liking or disliking.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on January 02, 2006, 01:04:57 PM
Quote
How about the fans that just think the album sucks? The same fans who like Pet Sounds and Wild Honey, but don't like the crap inbetween the two?

You can never "just" like or dislike something.  There are always reasons, whether you try to figure them out or not.  If you have serious emotional problems you go to a psychologist to figure them out, right?  So why not try to understand why you react a certain way to this album?  I think if fans just want to be lazy and say the album just sucks, they don't deserve to listen to any music.   That's the same mentality that killed Smile, the album that is the reason for this site existing in the first place.  And that's something I'll never get about a lot of Beach Boys fans.  Somehow many Smile fans are able to praise Brian's "weird" lost music while totally trashing the amazing, "weird" stuff he actually finished ("Smiley Smile," "Love You").  That kind of mentality makes the Beach Boys looking outdated and boring to non-fans more than Mike Love ever could.

Oh, I can just like or dislike something quite easily, and for just one reason if it's a good one in my mind. In this particular case, I have several reasons why I dislike Smiley.

Fans have nothing to do with the Beach Boys looking outdated and boring. That's the band's fault. Horrid handling of their catalogue, too numerous to count greatest hits collections, the Beach Boys endless touring jukebox, the 'un-hip' striped shirts, the PR nightmares over the years (members suing members), Brian's mental illnesses, Charles Manson, etc. etc. etc.





Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:06:23 PM
No, if someone is dealing with music negatively or positively on a purely reactionary level, then pretending it's analysis, that's the problem.
If Joe Blow heras it and goes "It's weird, huh-huh, it sucks!" that's one thing. But on a review thread where we are here for the express purpose of studied analysis, it damn well is the time to analyse closely what someone's real reasons are for liking or disliking.

No arguments there.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:08:31 PM
Smiley Smile rocks and the only people here who get it are me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:08:39 PM

Fans have nothing to do with the Beach Boys looking outdated...

Actually, fans have everything to do with any band "looking outdated." After all, what is outdated other than popular culture deciding that something is no longer stylish? It is completely an invention. No band would ever be outdated if not for the concept of fans (and companies) moving on to force a new "in."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:09:29 PM
Smiley Smile rocks and the only people here who get it are me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.

Aw, shucks. Ain't I somethin'? And to think, I'm one of the people who said it's only an OK album. (Maybe Jason didn't read my posts closely.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:12:45 PM

Aw, shucks. Ain't I somethin'? And to think, I'm one of the people who said it's only an OK album. (Maybe Jason didn't read my posts closely.)

You still get it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:13:41 PM
I'd have to agree with that, I guess.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on January 02, 2006, 01:24:31 PM

Fans have nothing to do with the Beach Boys looking outdated...

Actually, fans have everything to do with any band "looking outdated." After all, what is outdated other than popular culture deciding that something is no longer stylish? It is completely an invention. No band would ever be outdated if not for the concept of fans (and companies) moving on to force a new "in."

The Beach Boys were once the 2nd most popular group in the world. The fans had nothing to do with it from that point. It was all up to the Boys whether they would stay in that spot or fall off the face of the earth. Did the same fate happen to the Beatles? The Stones?

I would suggest that the artist is the one holding the cards.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:26:18 PM

Fans have nothing to do with the Beach Boys looking outdated...

Actually, fans have everything to do with any band "looking outdated." After all, what is outdated other than popular culture deciding that something is no longer stylish? It is completely an invention. No band would ever be outdated if not for the concept of fans (and companies) moving on to force a new "in."

The Beach Boys were once the 2nd most popular group in the world. The fans had nothing to do with it from that point. It was all up to the Boys whether they would stay in that spot or fall off the face of the earth. Did the same fate happen to the Beatles? The Stones?

I would suggest that the artist is the one holding the cards.

The artist could be considered to be holding the cards if holding the cards means bowing to the whims of the public's taste. If an artist is going to do whatever that artist is going to do regardless, and live with the public's reaction, then the fans are holding the cards.

I'd say, with any true/honest artists, the public is holding the cards.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on January 02, 2006, 01:33:39 PM
Did the Beatles ever cater to the whims of the buying public, or in their case was it: they could sh*t a brick and sell it like it was gold?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 01:34:38 PM
Definitely.
As Paul said, "Thank You Girl was really just a way of saying thank you for buying this record".


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 01:35:21 PM
I think if fans just want to be lazy and say the album just sucks, they don't deserve to listen to any music.

To insist that a fan who has a negative reaction toward music take the time to reason him- or herself through it and explain on some detailed level why that may be seems awfully pretentious of an artist. If someone likes it and doesn't know why, fine. If someone hates it and doesn't know why, fine. No analysis is required.

I don't think it's pretentious at all, and I don't even see why the act of analysis should be forced.  If you love something a lot, why wouldn't you involuntarily think about it to the point of thorough analysis?  I think if you're going to really criticize something you need to have specific reasons for it, whether you' think it's a model worth imitating or as an example of what not to do.  What's pretentious to me is casually dismissing someone's hard work without even offering your own creation as an example of how things should be done, whether that creation is more music or a thought-out criticism or whatever form of expression you like.  A casual dismissal implies that the person has such little regard for music that I don't think they deserve it.  If you're going to treat music as a cheap commodity then are you really fit to judge it?  I don't think so.  If you can't be bothered to explore why something is bad, then how can you ever expect to find something good?  It's the definition of pretention to arbitrarily knocking down albums, in this case, as if the musician owes you the albums and has nothing better to do than flirt with your own laziness.

Quote
Oh, I can just like or dislike something quite easily

Then explain how that is possible.

Quote
Fans have nothing to do with the Beach Boys looking outdated and boring. That's the band's fault. Horrid handling of their catalogue, too numerous to count greatest hits collections, the Beach Boys endless touring jukebox, the 'un-hip' striped shirts, the PR nightmares over the years (members suing members), Brian's mental illnesses, Charles Manson, etc. etc. etc.

A trend can only happen if people follow it, so the ones you mention (striped shirts, for example) would require the approval of a certain number of fans.  Even you focus on certain aspects of the band as being necessary parts of their character, those aspects being trends because you associate their popularity within a certain timeframe.  Somehow you even manage to view mental illness and a cult leader as trends because they can become "outdated."  By portraying the aspects of the Beach Boys you mention as trends integral to their overall character you force the band to be a certain thing.  In other words, The Beach Boys would not be the Beach Boys without Brian's mental illness or Charles Manson.  This is what I was pointing out about people forcing Smiley Smile to not be what the Beach Boys are about musically.  They see the album as being out of character.  Yet it exists, so this issue cannot be reconciled within the fans who oppose it.  You cannot pick and choose from a band's history what makes up their character.  It's all part of their character.  Your own feelings about what they should be are an entirely different subject.  You cannot decide what is real about them or what isn't, but you can decide what you like or don't like.  When a large number of fans don't like something, as many did when turning against the striped shirt image, the trend is over and the fans have made the band outdated.  If Brian's mental illness, Charles Manson, striped shirts, and poorly mishandling your catalog surged in popularity then the Beach Boys would no longer be outdated because the fans would offer new approval.  So they have a lot to do with  making a band outdated.  The band can only be itself.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:36:20 PM
In re E=MC2

That's not the point: I'm not saying success or acceptance is based solely on catering to the whims of the public; but that if one stays true to his/her/their artistic interest(s), the public disapproval is an absolute possibility, whereas it is more of an assurance of success to pander to the public (although certainly no guarantee).

(And, by the way, yes. Magical Mystery Tour.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
Quote
The Beach Boys were once the 2nd most popular group in the world. The fans had nothing to do with it from that point. It was all up to the Boys whether they would stay in that spot or fall off the face of the earth. Did the same fate happen to the Beatles? The Stones?

I would suggest that the artist is the one holding the cards.

If that were true then every artist would be number one.


Did the Beatles ever cater to the whims of the buying public, or in their case was it: they could merda a brick and sell it like it was gold?

They admitted to wearing the matching suits to cater to the public.  You rarely become popular because a lot of people love everything about you.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:37:27 PM
That's not the point: I'm not saying success or acceptance is based solely on catering to the whims of the public; but that if one stays true to his/her/their artistic interest(s), the public disapproval is an absolute possibility, whereas it is more of an assurance of success to pander to the public (although certainly no guarantee).

I guess Talking Heads were just lucky when they added all the worldbeat influences.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:41:51 PM
If you love something a lot, why wouldn't you involuntarily think about it to the point of thorough analysis? 

I was thinking the opposite way--if I dislike something, should I be forced to consider and analyze it thoroughly? After all, I didn't like it. I want to put it behind me. That isn't to say that I may not be missing something by a quick dismissal, but I'd have every right to do so.

Although as I consider it, there is music (and art of other media) that I enjoy and don't want to analyze more deeply. I tend to analyze music, but certainly don't think it's a requirement. And I more rarely analyze any other art form. I don't think that cheapens my opinion in the least. If pushed, I could explain my like or dislike, but don't believe I have to explain it ahead of time just to "validate" my opinion.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 01:42:58 PM
Chris, you are the world's foremost authority on SMiLEY, I proclaimed it, so mote it be.
And keep it up.
SMiLEY is an ancient falling-down house, beckoning us in to see it's beautiful ugliness.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: HighOnLife on January 02, 2006, 01:43:28 PM
I don't see Smiley Smile as out of character at all. I think for Brian's state of mind in early 1967, it was quite in-character. True, you cannot remove Smiley from their catalogue as if it never existed, just as you cannot remove Stars & Stripes from their catalogue.

Are you suggesting that fans must love the whole catalogue?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:44:22 PM
I don't see Smiley Smile as out of character at all. I think for Brian's state of mind in early 1967, it was quite in-character. True, you cannot remove Smiley from their catalogue as if it never existed, just as you cannot remove Stars & Stripes from their catalogue.

Are you suggesting that fans must love the whole catalogue?

That would mean we would have to love Keepin' the Summer Alive. That would suck because that album sucks, even more than Summer in Paradise.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:45:35 PM
SMiLEY is an ancient falling-down house, beckoning us in to see it's beautiful ugliness.

I'd be an a$shole to note a typo, eh? So I guess I won't.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 01:48:35 PM
SMiLEY is a typo, beckoning us to correct it's beautiful wrongness.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 01:50:12 PM
If you love something a lot, why wouldn't you involuntarily think about it to the point of thorough analysis? 

I was thinking the opposite way--if I dislike something, should I be forced to consider and analyze it thoroughly? After all, I didn't like it. I want to put it behind me. That isn't to say that I may not be missing something by a quick dismissal, but I'd have every right to do so.

Although as I consider it, there is music (and art of other media) that I enjoy and don't want to analyze more deeply. I tend to analyze music, but certainly don't think it's a requirement. And I more rarely analyze any other art form. I don't think that cheapens my opinion in the least. If pushed, I could explain my like or dislike, but don't believe I have to explain it ahead of time just to "validate" my opinion.

I might buy that if you never complain about music you don't like.  And maybe you don't, I don't know.  You do have a right to not analyze music, but the artist has a right to keep it to themselves -- like the original Smile tapes.  I know I wouldn't put a lot of effort into releasing my work if I knew the responses were just going to be along the lines of "It sucks" or "It rules."  Even Brian analyzed all the stuff he liked, practising to Four Freshmen records on his piano to understand how they were done so he could replicate that since he liked the records so much.  You're able to enjoy Brian's music because of his analysis and study.  I'm willing to pay him back in kind.

My original issue was also more with people who said they didn't have to have reasons for liking or disliking something.  I don't see any possibility for that and no one's come close to convincing me.  The best response yet is still along the lines of, "I don't wanna" or "I don't have to."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:50:18 PM
SMiLEY is a typo, beckoning us to correct it's beautiful wrongness.

Resist the urge to correct grammar...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 01:51:41 PM
SMiLEY is grammar, be...oh, forget it.

Right on, Chris.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:52:21 PM
SMiLEY is a typo, beckoning us to correct it's beautiful wrongness.

Resist the urge to correct grammar...

It's somewhere between a struggle and an impossibility. And the drunker I become (which is already significant), the harder it becomes.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 01:53:05 PM

It's somewhere between a struggle and an impossibility. And the drunker I become (which is already significant), the harder it becomes.

sh*t happens.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 01:53:48 PM
I don't see Smiley Smile as out of character at all. I think for Brian's state of mind in early 1967, it was quite in-character. True, you cannot remove Smiley from their catalogue as if it never existed, just as you cannot remove Stars & Stripes from their catalogue.

Are you suggesting that fans must love the whole catalogue?

No, I'm saying you can't remove it, which you agree with.  But more than that, I'm saying even the worst Beach Boys album is as much the Beach Boys as their best one.

Quote
Chris, you are the world's foremost authority on SMiLEY, I proclaimed it, so mote it be.
And keep it up.
SMiLEY is an ancient falling-down house, beckoning us in to see it's beautiful ugliness.

And thank you.  Great comparison.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 01:56:28 PM
My original issue was also more with people who said they didn't have to have reasons for liking or disliking something.  I don't see any possibility for that and no one's come close to convincing me.

I agree with most of what you're saying, actually. But with the above sentences, if you hear something on the radio once--and you think it's poop--do you really analyze what it is you dislike? It isn't to say that you don't have some kind of reason for your initial reaction, but do you consider it, or do you go by your initial reaction? I would think that for the bulk of the trash that exists, you simply (or, not to make assumptions, I simply) dismiss it. That isn't to say I can't consider and reason my dislike. it's just to say that, if I don't want to hear something again, I certainly don't want to put forth the thought that goes into analyzing what I don't like about it.

All this is moot for something that a person is going to take the time and trouble to post about. Anything that is important enough to comment publicly about is important enough to consider.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 02:08:08 PM
I just came to this conclusion. Smiley Smile is both the first lo-fi album and the first slowcore album. Seriously.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 03:23:25 PM
You've now used three stupid catch-phrase subgenres to describe Beach Boys albums in the past few minutes.

Please quit it. They're just records. Not emoslowcorediylofiindiehardcorethisandthat. Records.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 03:25:27 PM
But just what constitutes a "record" anyway? Discuss.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 03:29:56 PM
But just what constitutes a "record" anyway? Discuss.

Shouldn't that be a thread unto itself?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 03:30:35 PM
Not really!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 03:50:36 PM
Quote
But with the above sentences, if you hear something on the radio once--and you think it's merda--do you really analyze what it is you dislike?

I do!

Quote
You've now used three stupid catch-phrase subgenres to describe Beach Boys albums in the past few minutes.

Please quit it. They're just records. Not emoslowcorediylofiindiehardcorethisandthat. Records.

Hahaha!  And that would also make those sub-genres seem even more pathetic in that they're so far behind.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 03:53:09 PM
Quote
But with the above sentences, if you hear something on the radio once--and you think it's merda--do you really analyze what it is you dislike?

I do!

Not that I'm not largely guilty of the same, but that depresses me, in that I think it takes away from the aesthetics of music. It is unfortunately that we over-intellectualize everything.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 05:06:54 PM
But if it's second-nature, it's not really work, it's just natural.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 05:14:56 PM
You've now used three stupid catch-phrase subgenres to describe Beach Boys albums in the past few minutes.

Please quit it. They're just records. Not emoslowcorediylofiindiehardcorethisandthat. Records.

Peter Reum uses them too, and I suppose he's just some hack who doesn't know what he's talking about, right?

You want the Beach Boys to get some long-awaited youth support from this generation? Market their albums as pioneers of emo, slowcore, or lo-fi, people will jump all over them.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on January 02, 2006, 05:29:16 PM
Quote
The image of BB's have been ruined time and time again, by the various incarnations they have appeared in, so I doubt if that's the  problem that some people could have with "Smiley Smile", at least if they know the entire output of the group.

Right, but people here constantly complain about their particular image of the group being ruined.  It's a huge issue, not just a given.  Some people have a problem with the Mike Love Beach Boys, and think he's ruined the group's image as intelligent songwriters.  Others seem to hate Smiley Smile for forcing them to really analyze what sounds like "half-assed" noise instead of just drooling over the same, easy, old bits over and over again ("That tag from 'Fun Fun Fun,' far out!").  If Brian was trying to compete with the best of the 60s, he succeeded with Smiley Smile so much that it hurt.  It makes the Smile fans look traditional, and I think that's the problem people have with Smiley Smile.  A lot of fans like to gush about Brian's perfectionism and the layers of hidden complexity in his best known songs.  I think they resent him for putting out an album that is as beautiful as anything he wrote earlier but sounds, superficially, like amateur work.  It fodas with the Brian Wilson image too much by showing him as a creative guy willing to put one over on his fans to see why they really liked him in the first place.

How about the fans that just think the album sucks? The same fans who like Pet Sounds and Wild Honey, but don't like the crap inbetween the two?



Yes, I agree but instead of discussing the actual music, you always get the argument that the reason, that people aren't that crazy about Smiley must be because it ruins their image of the BB's. I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't like an album, because it presented a slightly different image of BB's, if the music was actually really great.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 05:35:08 PM
Quote
But with the above sentences, if you hear something on the radio once--and you think it's merda--do you really analyze what it is you dislike?

I do!

Not that I'm not largely guilty of the same, but that depresses me, in that I think it takes away from the aesthetics of music. It is unfortunately that we over-intellectualize everything.

Ian's response nailed this perfectly.  It's second-nature for me and loads of fun.  I hear a song that excites me and I take it apart.  I want to know why I think it's good.  And you're way off saying that my attempt to fully appreciate music is damaging to music's aesthetics.  Aesthetics is the appreciation of something, and I mean to do that for real.  For example, I just got Pulp's Different Class album for Christmas and can't stop playing it, especially the song "Disco 2000."  What made me really take notice of this song?  Reading the lyrics.  I got hooked immediately from a reaction to the lyrics which included full-on analysis.  I could post pages for you about this song, and it's my desire to absorb every corner of its being which lets me love it so much.  If I just wanted a catchy tune for the background I could find that anywhere, and I'd probably own 20-30 albums tops.  I'm not Ian, but I own a lot more than that.

For me the bottom line is two-fold: I would like to make a living off of my writing so I find it beneficial to analyze all art in order to improve anything I create (monks did this with books and we call it glossing--no one would argue that was useless); and I think an understanding of yourself and surroundings is absolutely essential in order to not be used by those surroundings.  That is, we like to pretend so much of our behavior is just human nature, is involuntary or burned into our DNA, but that isn't the case.  For example, we practise sexuality, not just intercourse.  Intercourse is natural, sexuality is an invention.  Say you have a couple into bondage.  You can't tell me they just naturally like something which isn't man-made.  If I were in that couple, I would be compelled to understand my sexual fetish in order to get the most out of it.  I don't see that as negative or over-intellectualizing at all.  If someone wants to pretend their tastes are incidental, that's their loss.  They will be a lesser person for it.  I want to understand myself inside and out, and push harder for that every day because the brain is a complex tool that we barely understand and aren't even ready for.

I realize in these rants I tend to try pulling in a lot of comparisons that may not be necessary, but if I'm still unclear look at it this way: my desire to create the best things is sort of like a competition.  I wouldn't advocate creating for other people at the expense of your own goals, but you could still see it as a competition.  In that sense it's not unlike two warring nations.  You would expect a nation at war to learn all it can about the enemy, right?  No one would say, "You guys won, but you really over-intellectualized that war, didn't you?"  The country that doesn't do the research loses and has to absorb itself into the culture of the winning country.  Think of all the people on this site who bitch about new music not being as good as the 60s.  If you're not going to analyze the stuff you can't expect it to be good.  Casual response is going to generate casual product.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 05:38:08 PM
I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't like an album, because it presented a slightly different image of BB's, if the music was actually really great.

Søren

Isn't that why Brian said people weren't ready for Smile?  And considering that, has anyone here actually said it was a good idea to shelve Smile (especially for that reason) in 67?

Quote
You want the Beach Boys to get some long-awaited youth support from this generation? Market their albums as pioneers of emo, slowcore, or lo-fi, people will jump all over them.

Right thing for the wrong reasons.  Shouldn't they like the music on its own terms, not because it's been remixed/reworked/reworded/repackaged to fit current trends that won't mean sh*t in a few years anyway?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 02, 2006, 05:47:09 PM


Quote
You want the Beach Boys to get some long-awaited youth support from this generation? Market their albums as pioneers of emo, slowcore, or lo-fi, people will jump all over them.

Right thing for the wrong reasons.  Shouldn't they like the music on its own terms, not because it's been remixed/reworked/reworded/repackaged to fit current trends that won't mean merda in a few years anyway?

That's something that most likely will never happen. The young people who post here (myself included) are rare breeds, we get the music. I like to think of Brian Wilson as a, if not the, pioneer in the so-called "indie" movement, a good 20 years before such a movement really existed. There are plenty of indie purists out there, and a little clever marketing of Beach Boys music towards a younger audience could do nothing but good, in my opinion. If the genres don't last, who cares? There will always be that fan base out there. Pet Sounds gets approval like this from younger audiences, but the whole catalog deserves such praise.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on January 02, 2006, 05:54:19 PM
I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't like an album, because it presented a slightly different image of BB's, if the music was actually really great.

Søren

Isn't that why Brian said people weren't ready for Smile?  And considering that, has anyone here actually said it was a good idea to shelve Smile (especially for that reason) in 67?


That's what Brian thought, but who says he was right and it could just as well be an excuse for not releasing some music, that he after all wasn't so sure about .

Søren



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 06:00:45 PM
Quote
That's something that most likely will never happen. The young people who post here (myself included) are rare breeds, we get the music. I like to think of Brian Wilson as a, if not the, pioneer in the so-called "indie" movement, a good 20 years before such a movement really existed. There are plenty of indie purists out there, and a little clever marketing of Beach Boys music towards a younger audience could do nothing but good, in my opinion. If the genres don't last, who cares? There will always be that fan base out there. Pet Sounds gets approval like this from younger audiences, but the whole catalog deserves such praise.

I agree about them being a huge influence on indie stuff.  I just don't think they should have to alter their image to seem cooler.  But you are right about the influence -- their adventurousness is severely underrated.

Quote
That's what Brian thought, but who says he was right and it could just as well be an excuse for not releasing some music, that he after all wasn't so sure about .

Whether he was right or wrong you say that his thinking it was inappropriate stopped him.  That's the important thing, and it says to me how foolish it is to care so much about keeping with that the audience thinks is your image.  Especially if you're going to throw out music like that.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 02, 2006, 06:53:34 PM
Quote
But with the above sentences, if you hear something on the radio once--and you think it's merda--do you really analyze what it is you dislike?

I do!

Not that I'm not largely guilty of the same, but that depresses me, in that I think it takes away from the aesthetics of music. It is unfortunately that we over-intellectualize everything.

Ian's response nailed this perfectly.  It's second-nature for me and loads of fun.  I hear a song that excites me and I take it apart.  I want to know why I think it's good.  And you're way off saying that my attempt to fully appreciate music is damaging to music's aesthetics.  Aesthetics is the appreciation of something, and I mean to do that for real.  For example, I just got Pulp's Different Class album for Christmas and can't stop playing it, especially the song "Disco 2000."  What made me really take notice of this song?  Reading the lyrics.  I got hooked immediately from a reaction to the lyrics which included full-on analysis.  I could post pages for you about this song, and it's my desire to absorb every corner of its being which lets me love it so much.  If I just wanted a catchy tune for the background I could find that anywhere, and I'd probably own 20-30 albums tops.  I'm not Ian, but I own a lot more than that.

For me the bottom line is two-fold: I would like to make a living off of my writing so I find it beneficial to analyze all art in order to improve anything I create (monks did this with books and we call it glossing--no one would argue that was useless); and I think an understanding of yourself and surroundings is absolutely essential in order to not be used by those surroundings.  That is, we like to pretend so much of our behavior is just human nature, is involuntary or burned into our DNA, but that isn't the case.  For example, we practise sexuality, not just intercourse.  Intercourse is natural, sexuality is an invention.  Say you have a couple into bondage.  You can't tell me they just naturally like something which isn't man-made.  If I were in that couple, I would be compelled to understand my sexual fetish in order to get the most out of it.  I don't see that as negative or over-intellectualizing at all.  If someone wants to pretend their tastes are incidental, that's their loss.  They will be a lesser person for it.  I want to understand myself inside and out, and push harder for that every day because the brain is a complex tool that we barely understand and aren't even ready for.

I realize in these rants I tend to try pulling in a lot of comparisons that may not be necessary, but if I'm still unclear look at it this way: my desire to create the best things is sort of like a competition.  I wouldn't advocate creating for other people at the expense of your own goals, but you could still see it as a competition.  In that sense it's not unlike two warring nations.  You would expect a nation at war to learn all it can about the enemy, right?  No one would say, "You guys won, but you really over-intellectualized that war, didn't you?"  The country that doesn't do the research loses and has to absorb itself into the culture of the winning country.  Think of all the people on this site who bitch about new music not being as good as the 60s.  If you're not going to analyze the stuff you can't expect it to be good.  Casual response is going to generate casual product.

I understand you. I just don't agree with some of what you say. And I don't plan to, nor do I expect you to agree with me.

And who cares? It's just f@cking pop music.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 07:07:39 PM
We care. And that's why we're here, dude. To argue and analyse music.
If you don't dig it, don't take part, don't read it.
But don't pass it off with some jiveass comment that simply signifies you've lost the argument.

Chris, man, I knew you would love Different Class, I FODA KNEW IT! Disco 2000 is the single of the 90's, bar none.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 02, 2006, 07:34:25 PM
5. And it's not just 'cause I love this album. This is the REAL psychedelic acid album. To me this in the same league as Oar by Skip Spence. I don't want to throw words like "genius" around, but it's amazing where this album can take you. Don't get to hung up on "production value." Just go with it.  In a sea of posers trying to capitalize on peace, love and psychedelia - Skip Spence, Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett were really showing you what was on the other side.

f*** the Beatles.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 02, 2006, 07:42:07 PM
Damn right!!!!!!

That's the reason people don't dig the SMiLEY. Because they don't "get" Syd Barrett, Roky Erickson and Skip Spence.
Does ANYONE here who does not like SMiLEY like any other bizarre, intense twisted psych?
It's the same deal, guys. Listen.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 02, 2006, 08:08:07 PM
Quote
Chris, man, I knew you would love Different Class, I FODA KNEW IT! Disco 2000 is the single of the 90's, bar none.

You're exactly right, as usual.  Best 90s single, easily.  He squeezed a long story into a short song as well as anything by Steely Dan and makes Ray Davies look like a caricature artist in comparison.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 03, 2006, 09:32:59 AM
I loved Smiley Smile from the moment I heard Vegetables and it just got better from there. Funnily enough, this album "sounds" like the Beach Boys more to me than anything else. For some reason I identify with their voices on the album, especially during Wonderful's party break.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 12:00:40 PM
Welcome back, Mitchell!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on January 03, 2006, 01:17:58 PM

Quote
That's what Brian thought, but who says he was right and it could just as well be an excuse for not releasing some music, that he after all wasn't so sure about .

Whether he was right or wrong you say that his thinking it was inappropriate stopped him.  That's the important thing, and it says to me how foolish it is to care so much about keeping with that the audience thinks is your image.  Especially if you're going to throw out music like that.

No I was talking about how some music would be received if it momentarily ruined the image of a band, it seems that you agree, that if the music is great people will listen anyway.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 03, 2006, 05:20:19 PM
We care. And that's why we're here, dude. To argue and analyse music.
Of course we care, and that's obviously why I'm here. My point was that at a certain point, when neither person is really presenting new arguments, but they don't agree, you need to just agree to disagree. And because it's pop music (beloved, but not exactly a nuclear arms treaty or anything), we don't have to come away with an agreement. Sometimes you just have to drop it and move on, you know?

If you don't dig it, don't take part, don't read it.
My ongoing arguments would obviously show I dig it enough to take part in it, and that I'm reading it. I wasn't being dismissive of Chris D., I was just saying nolo contendere.

But don't pass it off with some jiveass comment that simply signifies you've lost the argument.
Take it as my loss if you want. I don't. But as you once said to me, don't tell me what to do, man--especially if you misunderstand the intention of my post.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 05:43:09 PM
I think new arguments were being presnted by Chris D. I certainly have never read them before. And who's to say that everyone here has heard and read all the same things? Maybe others, less enlightened than you, dig reading it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 03, 2006, 05:44:24 PM
You guys need to chill out, it's music for f***'s sake.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 05:46:35 PM
That's even more of what I'm talking about.
Music is my religion, man. I take it seriously. Very seriously.
So, if you don't have anything more constructive, that's cool, but don't dampen or cheapen the discussion.
Music is not JUST anything. It's THE thing.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 03, 2006, 05:48:13 PM
I wouldn't say music is my "religion", it's more like my bread and wine.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 03, 2006, 05:51:52 PM
It's absolutely central to my life, no doubt about it. But it isn't to everyone's, and is differently important to everyone. We, being people who spend spare time talking in detail about it, obviously all care more than most. But I'm not going to get too worked up about disagreements about how a person should listen to it or think about it, since I don't believe there is any certain way that people should listen to or think about it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 05:55:38 PM
I would die for Rock and Roll because God gave it to me to enjoy. It's saved my life many times.
I'm just not into the pooh-poohing everyone does when a discussion gets heavy. Why shouldn't it get down there? It's key to what makes us who we are.
I mean, if everyone wants to get to a level of "Man, that new Byrds box is amazing", then that's fine, we can do that.
personally, I prefer this more.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 03, 2006, 06:10:21 PM
I'm not sure how one goes about dying for rock 'n' roll, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it. But I can't really imagine a rewarding life without music. And I'm glad to discuss it daily in depth. Just don't talk down to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 06:14:22 PM
I wasn't buddy, I thought you were.

I just miss the days of real gen-u-WINE passion about rock, the days of Lester Bangs, Marcus, Patti Smith, Townshend, all that. When digging a band was like being in a gang, taking a side, being FOR something.
I see a lot of mellow relativism in regards to music and it's just not for me. I guess I was born a little too late.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 03, 2006, 06:16:46 PM
That's even more of what I'm talking about.
Music is my religion, man. I take it seriously. Very seriously.
So, if you don't have anything more constructive, that's cool, but don't dampen or cheapen the discussion.
Music is not JUST anything. It's THE thing.

Without trying to stir things up too much, I have to back Ian up here.  A year or so ago I would've agreed with you, Luther and Jason.  Sure, it's just music.  But even the trendiest, momentary music can be affecting.  Caring so much about music goes beyond caring about just music or some musical style.  It's caring about what other people have to say and how they say it.  It's how you express your romance with a complicated invention we have called communication.  Caring about music, or anything, just shows that you're interesting in being alive.  A nuclear arms treaty might have more serious effects on us in that it could end our existence, but inventing nuclear arms in the first place is just careless.  Making music takes care.  There's no way I could justify treating something as beautiful as music as less important or valuable than a weapon someone is going to make just to have power over me.  I'm giving myself to someone who wants to say something to me.

Edit:
Quote
And I'm glad to discuss it daily in depth. Just don't talk down to me.

Right on.

Quote
I see a lot of mellow relativism in regards to music and it's just not for me. I guess I was born a little too late.

Right on.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 06:21:39 PM
Thanks, Mr. D. Your thoughts and writings, your FEELING about art serve as an inspiration to my head.
Right/Write on, my friend.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 03, 2006, 06:49:07 PM
Thanks, Mr. D. Your thoughts and writings, your FEELING about art serve as an inspiration to my head.
Right/Write on, my friend.

Likewise, and thank you to you, Luther, and Jason for making this an active thread.  I crave the fanatacism as much as you and it's very heartening to see someone who wants it as badly.  You were born loving this stuff.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 03, 2006, 07:06:54 PM
That's even more of what I'm talking about.
Music is my religion, man. I take it seriously. Very seriously.
So, if you don't have anything more constructive, that's cool, but don't dampen or cheapen the discussion.
Music is not JUST anything. It's THE thing.

You know what? I retract my last few statements. Music is my breath and life-essence and I wouldn't have it any other way. I enjoy talking with you guys, even when all we do is disagree.

Smiley Smile fucking rules.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 07:12:11 PM
And you guys rule too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 03, 2006, 07:18:35 PM
Bottom line though, FUM HIM THE MOURDOROUS BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Praise him and you are as bad as I am!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 03, 2006, 07:24:35 PM
Let us all stay teenage gamblers listening to the radio.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 03, 2006, 07:26:15 PM
Ya'll can sing Danny Boy on my lap any time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 03, 2006, 07:30:18 PM
Ya'll can sing Danny Boy on my lap any time.

Only if we get to sit in your rainbow cup.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on January 04, 2006, 12:10:36 AM
Smiley Smile rocks and the only people here who get it are me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.
No way man! Gotta and me to the list. I ain't been active in this thread, but I'd put SMiLEy in my top 3, ONLY because I can't decide which I like better- SMiLEy, Sunflower or Pet Sounds. All induviduals onto themselves and to one another. DON'T make me have to choose! It's just not possible. ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: donald on January 04, 2006, 07:43:44 AM
Here's one take on Smiley Smile.  There are the two mega hits...H&V and GV. 
Much of the rest is bits and pieces of SMiLE stuff....unfinished...deliberately presented as such and in a fashion reminescent of the Beach Boys Party concept...........

Hey kids! Listen, trip along,  as the BeachBoys get STONED, giggle,  and workup some groovy new psychedelic songs for you!  (CARL!! grab that roach in the ashtray!!!)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 04, 2006, 10:46:56 AM

No way man! Gotta and me to the list. I ain't been active in this thread, but I'd put SMiLEy in my top 3, ONLY because I can't decide which I like better- SMiLEy, Sunflower or Pet Sounds. All induviduals onto themselves and to one another. DON'T make me have to choose! It's just not possible. ;)

Preach on, brother.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Old Rake on January 05, 2006, 07:33:38 AM
Quote
me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.

HELLOOOOOOOOOO! I've only been singing the thing's praises loudly and vocally since, oh, I dunno, *I STARTED THIS DANG BOARD!*

Five star album, couldn't live without it, like it almost as much as Smile, la-de-da, frickin' RULES.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 05, 2006, 07:46:10 AM
I remember when you (I think it was you) posted a link to an archived post by someone about how Smiley Smile was SMiLE from years ago... it was a great read.

Also, I read a book from my university library last year; a collection of essays about 'advances' in popular music or something. The essay about The Beach Boys was primarily about how brilliant Smiley Smile was. It was cool.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 05, 2006, 03:04:29 PM
Quote
me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.

HELLOOOOOOOOOO! I've only been singing the thing's praises loudly and vocally since, oh, I dunno, *I STARTED THIS DANG BOARD!*

Five star album, couldn't live without it, like it almost as much as Smile, la-de-da, frickin' RULES.

John Lane and Dan Addington used to go on and on about how great Smiley was to until you'd want to hurl. :-*


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 05, 2006, 08:48:40 PM
I would die for Rock and Roll because God gave it to me to enjoy. It's saved my life many times.
I'm just not into the pooh-poohing everyone does when a discussion gets heavy. Why shouldn't it get down there? It's key to what makes us who we are.
I mean, if everyone wants to get to a level of "Man, that new Byrds box is amazing", then that's fine, we can do that.
personally, I prefer this more.

?????

IS there a new Byrds box?????


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 05, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote
me, Ian, Luther, and Chris D.

HELLOOOOOOOOOO! I've only been singing the thing's praises loudly and vocally since, oh, I dunno, *I STARTED THIS DANG BOARD!*

Five star album, couldn't live without it, like it almost as much as Smile, la-de-da, frickin' RULES.

John Lane and Dan Addington used to go on and on about how great Smiley was to until you'd want to hurl. :-*

Dan came up with the "Smiley IS Smile" theory and he convinced me (at least until I heard the finished product -- now I just see it as another of Brian's ideas and artistic choices).  This was at least 6 years ago now.  These debates are hardly new and there is a strong allegiance to Smiley throughout the BB world.

I wish I had had $100 to spare.  I would have asked Brian to give me his thoughts on Smiley Smile and why he did it and what he thought of it today.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 05, 2006, 08:54:47 PM
I don't like having my name repeated, over and over, as "getting" anything. I never seriously claim to get anything more complicated than a sandwich...and not a fancy one.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 06, 2006, 08:05:09 AM
See, I love Luther because he GETS that he doesn't have to say he gets it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 06, 2006, 01:25:56 PM
...

(Luther doesn't respond, and the group sits in silence, waiting. See, he's off reading some highbrow Pynchon, Joyce or some such stuff--cover held high so passersby can read it!)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 06, 2006, 04:55:18 PM
Let us all stay teenage gamblers listening to the radio.

That's going to be the title of my biography.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 06, 2006, 05:01:59 PM



That's something that most likely will never happen. The young people who post here (myself included) are rare breeds, we get the music. I like to think of Brian Wilson as a, if not the, pioneer in the so-called "indie" movement, a good 20 years before such a movement really existed. There are plenty of indie purists out there, and a little clever marketing of Beach Boys music towards a younger audience could do nothing but good, in my opinion. If the genres don't last, who cares? There will always be that fan base out there. Pet Sounds gets approval like this from younger audiences, but the whole catalog deserves such praise.




I don't give a crap if "younger generations" get it or not. The Beach Boys have sold millions of records. I don't care if trendy posers dig them. foda indie rock.

If some phony is too much of an a-hole that he can't think for himself, and is fixated on a band's image, then he don't deserve to hear Brian's beautiful music anyways.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 06, 2006, 05:26:01 PM

foda indie rock.


This line seems out of place in the rest of your post. One can be an indie rocker and not mindlessly follow trends, etc. In fact, I'd say the percentage of indie artists who stay true to their own tastes is far, far higher than non-indie artists. After all, they don't have the backing of gigantic corporate machinery "encouraging" them one way or the other.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on January 06, 2006, 08:29:26 PM
Is it possible to make 'psych' music, without the use of drugs?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 06, 2006, 10:57:08 PM
Is it possible to make 'psych' music, without the use of drugs?

YES!
See the sunshine-pop movement, e.g. Free Design, Cowsills, etc.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 07:41:55 AM
I don't give a crap if "younger generations" get it or not. The Beach Boys have sold millions of records. I don't care if trendy posers dig them. foda indie rock.

If some phony is too much of an a-hole that he can't think for himself, and is fixated on a band's image, then he don't deserve to hear Brian's beautiful music anyways.

f*** indie rock? A lot of those fucking indie rockers are Brian's biggest fans!

And you'd better learn to love the younger generations who love the Beach Boys because they're gonna be the ones carrying the torch of your favorite band when you and all the older fans are dead. Several young people post here (myself included, been a fan since age 16) and are among Brian's biggest fans. And if you're calling the younger fans who post here poseurs, well you're sorely mistaken.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 07:51:56 AM
Ahaha. A little harsh, but good enough.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 07:53:40 AM
The original post was harsh.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 07:59:48 AM
Out of curiosity, why was "younger generations" in quotation marks? Are they not actually younger? Are you being ironic when you say younger generations, thus meaning the older generations? Hmm...

Anyway, I think that entire sentiment (and maybe Jason's response) comes down to the same old, somewhat tired debate between generations.

I think both older, original fans and new ones are necessary. Young fans can't ever quite understand a band on its original level, in its original context. They can read, or see documentaries, etc., but those are filtered through someone else's view. If you weren't there, you missed the original context, period. Younger fans, though, are able to do something else that's equally important in the criticism of music, and that's the exact opposite: hear the music out of context. They have more of an ability to be objective, to remove the Beatles from Beatlemania, to take away the media of this band or that, to leave the happy, drug-hazed flower power in the dirt and listen to the music on its merits.

The funny thing is, especially with a band so past its prime, sorely lacking in any real widespread, serious commercial acclaim the past X years, that fans argue about how one should best like them, as opposed to just being glad somebody else does.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 08:02:49 AM
I agree wholeheartedly, Luther.

The younger fans play a very important part in Beach Boys fandom, they can get their friends into the music. It's worked with me and a few of my friends. More younger fans is better than no younger fans to carry the torch.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 08:11:08 AM
In fact, it's younger fans who are absolutely necessary to 1) continue to guarantee ongoing sales; and 2) bring fresh vitality to the listening experience, keeping the band from being seen as the oldies act the touring version has long since become. BRI shouldn't pander, or forget about the people who actually shelled out the $(X) for Sunflower the first time around (all 15 people who bought it...), but neither should the organization--or the original fans--ignore or criticize those people who are discovering this music as NEW music.

It's this phenomenon, largely, that keeps the Beatles planted solidly in the realm of legendary. Yes, yes, they were supremely popular at the time. And they created a phenomenon that nobody else did, or has (arguably...I certainly don't have the facts to back that up). But that every single generation of new fans "discovers" the Beatles, and takes a different angle (hence "Pepper" as the unquestioned best album for a while...followed by the rougher-edged white album as the best...followed by the song-oriented "Rubber Soul," etc.), makes them essential for everyone, all the time.

Failure for new fans to continually find and make their own the Beach Boys has already hurt them, probably several times over. Why leave them on the oldies stations? Why criticize young fans because you think their motives impure?

(This has been fun. I don't even know if anyone disagrees. I'm just ranting. But now I am going to go read a book. Have fun tearing me a new one in my absence, if you'd like, or fighting amongst yourselves. I'll be back later to survey the carnage.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 07, 2006, 08:25:47 AM
The Beatles seemingly always had amazing publicity that only encouraged the peoples reception to the group.

30 years after the band ended there's still a new book released every .4 seconds documenting events that were written in every other book.

Keeping their name present through the years is a sure way to always attract consistent sales in the future.

Now consider the Oldies stations on the radio. You've got 50% of the music on there that is considered (and sometimes is) so cheesy and unhip or whatever, and you'll not find books or writings about them in mainstream stores.

"The Beatles Are Coming!"  vs.  "I Know Brian's Dad".


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 07, 2006, 09:13:24 AM
Is it possible to make 'psych' music, without the use of drugs?

YES!
See the sunshine-pop movement, e.g. Free Design, Cowsills, etc.

(http://bapresley.com/silverthreads/fun/themes/cowsills3.jpg)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Beckner on January 07, 2006, 09:27:41 AM
Last I knew Lovestein is 25 so I dont get it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 09:29:04 AM
Doesn't matter how old he is. It's the argument itself.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 09:29:41 AM
I dunno Luther...if he's indeed 25, then why would he trash his own generation? Makes no sense to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 09:31:09 AM
It still wouldn't change the argument. If I came on here and said men should be exterminated, it doesn't matter that I am one. My position deserves to be argued against.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 09:32:07 AM
Men are vain, greedy, brutal assholes who have just about ruined this planet...

Ahhhhh we love you Mr. Carlin.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 09:33:05 AM
Dear Mr. Carlin,

I actually don't love you. I do find you somewhat amusing.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Signed,
Luther


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 07, 2006, 10:54:55 AM
Yeah, I'm 25.

I wasn't saying screw the young folk. What I was saying was trying to make the Beach Boys look "trendy" so people will give other albums, besides Pet Sounds, a chance is a complete insult to the band and Brian Wilson.

And there are a lot of posers who won't pretend to "like" something unless it's been labeled "hip" by their lame brethren. And after they bash the Beach Boys for not being cool they go and put on their favorite emo band. God knows they're not lame.  ::)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 07, 2006, 10:56:42 AM
Yeah, I'm 25.

I wasn't saying screw the young folk. What I was saying was trying to make the Beach Boys look "trendy" so people will give other albums, besides Pet Sounds, a chance is a complete insult to the band and Brian Wilson.

But weren't they already trendy back in the early 60s?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 07, 2006, 10:57:41 AM
I don't know if music that was commercially succesful was considered trendy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 07, 2006, 10:58:46 AM
I dunno Luther...if he's indeed 25, then why would he trash his own generation? Makes no sense to me.

I hate my generation.

Why don't you all just ffffffff fade away.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 07, 2006, 11:12:51 AM

And there are a lot of posers who won't pretend to "like" something unless it's been labeled "hip" by their lame brethren.

Sad but true.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 09, 2006, 09:08:00 AM
I was listening to the SortaStereo version of Smiley and wondering again how Smiley gets held up as an example of formula, safer, more commercial music. Fall Breaks, off melody woodwinds, odd ball percussion, minimalism....?

Another thing, how is Smiley less esoteric lyricwise:  What is the meaning of "Remember the day, remember the night, all day long. Whistle in"?  Remember what day, why, forget the day and night at night? Why? Whistle in what? Why? Has what to do with remembering the day or night?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 09, 2006, 11:28:46 AM
I don't think anyone considers Smiley Smile "safer" or "formula". And we know where the discussion of "what were they thinking?" leads. I wish someone would talk to Brian and Mike and the rest of the guys about it.

That said, Smiley is miles more complex than people think, which is part of the brilliance.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 09, 2006, 03:30:56 PM
What did Mike Love think about Smiley? Has he given any interviews about how Smiley came to be?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 09, 2006, 04:31:55 PM
Mike said somewhere that he cared not about the music but for the lyrics to be understandable and relatable to their main fan base. He said he encouraged creativity music-wise and with all that but always wanted some safe lyrics for the kids.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Don't Back Down on January 10, 2006, 09:08:13 AM
I think what I hate most about this is the part after the lines "She belongs there left with her liberty never known as a non-believer" section, I don't like the "won-won-won-wonderful" sounds like kids are singing it, aside from that I think I can stand the album. I enjoy "Gettin' Hungry", "Little Pad", but I enjoy "He Gives Speeches" more than "She's Goin' Bald" lyric wise, I enjoy the melody and rhythm.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 10, 2006, 10:29:23 AM
I think what I hate most about this is the part after the lines "She belongs there left with her liberty never known as a non-believer" section, I don't like the "won-won-won-wonderful" sounds like kids are singing it, aside from that I think I can stand the album. I enjoy "Gettin' Hungry", "Little Pad", but I enjoy "He Gives Speeches" more than "She's Goin' Bald" lyric wise, I enjoy the melody and rhythm.

"He Gives Speeches" has to be one of the worst things in the whole SMiLE Sessions era. I always imagined it to be sung with a snarl that none of those guys had. Something raspy and cold like Lennon's vocal on "I Am The Walrus". Possibly Brian's most boring an unemotional vocal (though I suppose this was in relation to the words). The only thing that saves it is the hiigh parts/handclaps/and the great sounding drums.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 10, 2006, 10:38:54 AM
I really like HGS, myself.

I also really like the women singing "won-won wonderful"... It has a really cool vibe, even if it's kinda creepy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 10, 2006, 11:49:30 AM
I also really like the women singing "won-won wonderful"... It has a really cool vibe, even if it's kinda creepy.

That sounds like a sped-up tape, or a bunch of women with really annoying voices.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 10, 2006, 12:07:34 PM
From the SWD Thread on the old Smiley board:
Quote
WONDERFUL

Baldwin Organ and cellest at first with Carl

Wa Wa Wonderful is wives singing segment

Children, who I think were Carl's (that would be Jonah), were present at the vocal recording and ask to be quite, but the whispers were kept in the mix because of the "party" section

Harmonica

Party like sounds of family gathering, a seperate recording. Audree (mother), Dennis and Brian are named. All the wives and other friends are in the mix. Piano* in background with organ.

Brian at piano*

Na-Na is Brian & Carl

*The piano has a special tuning practiced by some piano tuners who tune studio pianos. It widely detunes the second and third string of the note set.


In Windchimes the "honk" -- do you mean at 1:26, the organ stop in tape echo?

~swd


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 10, 2006, 01:25:00 PM
I love He Gives Speeches. I also dig the creepy-sounding wives part of the Smiley Smile Wonderful--but the unreleased (till box set), Smile-era Wonderful is easily my favorite.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 10, 2006, 02:19:55 PM
I love He Gives Speeches.

I like the words, like the musical theme, bassline of Wind Chimes all that....just Brian's bored as heck voice makes me cringe.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on January 10, 2006, 08:22:55 PM
I also really like the women singing "won-won wonderful"... It has a really cool vibe, even if it's kinda creepy.

That sounds like a sped-up tape, or a bunch of women with really annoying voices.
I always thought it was the boys just singing high-pitchedly.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 10, 2006, 08:24:35 PM
"high-pitchedly"?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on January 10, 2006, 08:30:33 PM
In a high-pitched manner.

I have an adverb problem.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 11, 2006, 06:21:33 AM
Nope, it's the wives.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on January 11, 2006, 10:31:35 AM
The recent chatter here makes me wonder how Mike let Smiley Smile 'slip on through' when he gave SMiLE the big thumbs down. Smiley is by far weirder that the finished SMiLE would have been. Maybe Mike liked the more organic feel to Smiley?
I totally dig all the weirdness on this record: uke, giggles & laughs, crunching veggies, 'bom-bom's' in Fall Breaks, sha na na's in Bald, way out man, way out. How this cannot be dug is beyond me! Way bizarre.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 11, 2006, 11:23:56 AM
Mr. Knutz, you are moving toward something called The THREAD round these parts.  In essence, it involves why Smile died and how involved the BB and Mike in particular were in that death.  It turns into a holy war of sorts.  Smiley is the big thing there.  Any explanation of the demise of Smile must account for Smiley.  And anyone who blames it all or mostly on Mike must explain why he hated Smile and loved Smiley.

For my money, I would say this regardless:  Smile was mostly studio musicians and outside lyricists.  Smiley is mostly the BB on instruments (or at least could be played by them in concert) and mostly Mike and Brian on lyrics.  For whatever reason, this made Smiley more appealing to band members at that time vs Smile.  Beyond that I risk the thread.  In fact, I may have triggered it, as Cam would say that Mike would have preferred Smile over Smiley but that Brian chose the change over band members' objections.

I will say this -- the silence of other band members, esp Brian, about Smiley is deafening.  Had I $100 to spare, I would have asked Brian to give me his view on why he did it and what he thought of it then and today.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 11, 2006, 12:55:01 PM
I do remember someone complimenting it to him somewhere and Brian thanking him and saying that he liked it, too. No idea where I heard that, though.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 11, 2006, 12:59:00 PM
He put it on his Top 5 BB albums in 2004.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 11, 2006, 01:00:03 PM
OK, so he likes it -- why did he do it?  What was he up to? Details, man, details....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 11, 2006, 01:01:29 PM
Have you heard the Silver Platter Service interview from 67?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 11, 2006, 01:20:28 PM
Yep -- not enough detail, esp in the context of the history.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on January 11, 2006, 01:29:24 PM
You're spot on and I'm full on aware of the history as well! It's interesting since there are some answers and double the amount of opinions as to why it went that way. If only more undercurrents could be uncovered & elaborated upon. Interesting answers lie within and yes, many arguements are there as well! :)

A buddy of mine cannot stand Smiley, but loves SMiLE. He just gets angry and can't listen to it. It frustrates him and I find that amusing! "I... I... I can't... can't listen to it." He associates them too closely, as where some of us can look at both seperately and comparatively. I dig 'em both equally and love the scathing histories behind both.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 11, 2006, 01:41:13 PM
Why does it have to be that complicated?
Maybe he just dug the sounds they were coming up with, and decided to put em out!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 11, 2006, 01:44:05 PM
Why does it have to be that complicated?
Maybe he just dug the sounds they were coming up with, and decided to put em out!

Isn't allowing someone that luxury--to just dig or not dig the sounds--something you and Chris D argued against earlier in this thread? It seems to me that you were requiring listeners to analyze music, that liking it just because you "dig it" implies you're lazy. Are you putting more responsibility on listeners than on the artist?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 11, 2006, 01:48:48 PM
Yes.
What a work of art is, is a discernment best made by the listener, not the artist.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 11, 2006, 01:54:28 PM
But artist as listener has insight that a listener can't have, and therefore may be in a better position to judge. (Often not, as many artists are poor judges of their own work, at least in the popular opinion, probably because they're too close to it.)

I think you're wrong if you call it a responsibility of the listener. A right, maybe. But a listener shouldn't be required to do homework on a song that turns out to be a thoughtless accident involving last night's beans and some running tape (for a fictional example).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 11, 2006, 02:17:25 PM
Why does it have to be that complicated?
Maybe he just dug the sounds they were coming up with, and decided to put em out!

But Mike didn't raise any issues that we know of and fully cooperated with Smiley.  He did (unless you are Cam) raise concerns and interfere with Smile.  So what's up with that?  And how does that play into Brian's decision?  Let's take your view -- you say that it is an FU by Brian (I don't agree, but work with me).  Given that, why did he choose to make it an FU, and why did Mike say OK to that but reject Smile?  I don't want to start the Thread, but I *am* interested in the dynamics of Smile going to Smiley and the band members views, each one and their thoughts.  All I have seen is Al who seems to have been disheartened by Smiley over Smile.  But it got approved by the band for release.  How?

Just VERY curious, that's all.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on January 11, 2006, 02:52:04 PM
Complicated or not- it's just interesting. Insight makes it a bit more phun.
Not that I find one version superior to the other, but why ditch versions of Veggies & Wonderful that are amazing and recreate something different? Simply to avoid using those versions because of what they were associated with?
I recall the first time I heard Smiley's Wonderful, it was strangely uncomfortable as a tune by itself AND I had yet to hear SMiLE's Wonderful. I love them both, and to see an artist turn the production around and go the extreme opposite is amazing to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on January 11, 2006, 03:14:11 PM
The Smiley Smile versions of all the Smile tunes were, to me, my first exposure to the songs. All of them: Wonderful, Wind Chimes, H&V, etc. And I liked them in the same oddball, creeped-out way I do now. I consider them all inferior, but still worth hearing.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 12, 2006, 09:09:29 PM
Quote
Isn't allowing someone that luxury--to just dig or not dig the sounds--something you and Chris D argued against earlier in this thread? It seems to me that you were requiring listeners to analyze music, that liking it just because you "dig it" implies you're lazy. Are you putting more responsibility on listeners than on the artist?

I'd probably place more responsibility on the artist.  They must know what they are putting out there.  They may not know when they are creating.  That's fair.  I think it's best to create spontaneously and then analyze while editing prior to release.  But I really despite it when people say, "I just create this stuff and let fans decide what it means," even though artists I love do that.  It's so lazy and irresponsible, and a total betrayal of their intellectual skills.  If you're not going to think about your work, why should I?

And "luxury" is the perfect word for what you describe.

Quote
Not that I find one version superior to the other, but why ditch versions of Veggies & Wonderful that are amazing and recreate something different?

Because Smiley is a different album with a different concept.  The new approach would sound ridiculous if elements of the old approach were placed within it that explicitly.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on January 12, 2006, 09:37:36 PM
Quote
Not that I find one version superior to the other, but why ditch versions of Veggies & Wonderful that are amazing and recreate something different?

Because Smiley is a different album with a different concept.  The new approach would sound ridiculous if elements of the old approach were placed within it that explicitly.
Not necessarily. Can you say Good Vibrations and Heroes & Villains??


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on January 13, 2006, 07:14:09 AM
"Good Vibrations" works because conceptually it couldn't be any different.  It has to sound like science-fiction.  A "Smiley style" version just wouldn't be right.

"Heroes and Villains" already is the Smiley version, different than what we know from the Smile stuff even if it contains large elements of Smile.  My point was that it's still not too explicit, whereas dropping the first version of "Wonderful" next to "Gettin' Hungry" would be a bad idea.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on January 14, 2006, 12:14:22 AM
On the Hawthorne CD they have a track of the Beach Boys doing Good Vibrations in Hawaii '67, and they're doing it Smiley Smile style and it sounds fucking awesome.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 14, 2006, 01:20:36 AM
Smiley is mostly the BB on instruments (or at least could be played by them in concert) and mostly Mike and Brian on lyrics.

Mike has only a credit for the [precursor/template-of-Smile] pre-Smiley "Good Vibrations" and a co-credit, along with Brian and VDP [though VDP claims no credit], on the Smiley "She's Goin' Bald"  and NO credit on the other 9 Smiley songs: another unexplained mystery of Mike's supposed complicity in the destruction of [and supposed jealousy over] SMiLE for the creation of Smiley.

Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 14, 2006, 01:48:26 AM
Quote
Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?

I love ya Cam, but don't you ever get tired? At least you've amended it to music/instrumentation this time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 14, 2006, 03:06:42 AM
I love ya Cam, but don't you ever get tired?

Back at ya on both counts.

At least you've amended it to music/instrumentation this time.

Just trying to stick to the topics. Can you point out any?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 14, 2006, 06:55:02 AM
Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?

Can anyone point to ANY quotes other than quickies for teen mags (I mean the famous Denny one) where the BB say ANYTHING about Smile or Smiley in 1967?  Other than the radio interview Ian alluded to earlier which really says nothing. 

Thought so.

Cam, that sword cuts both ways.  Any BB quotes you have are after the fact, once it was obvious that they made a mistake as a group in not releasing Smile.  I would take any quotes with a grain of salt either way after 1967.  And let's leave it here because we have already proven that none of us will change your mind and you probably won't change ours either.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 14, 2006, 03:09:31 PM
Can anyone point to ANY quotes other than quickies for teen mags (I mean the famous Denny one) where the BB say ANYTHING about Smile or Smiley in 1967?  Other than the radio interview Ian alluded to earlier which really says nothing. 
 

Thought so.

Here are a few:

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966


Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”

“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67


Cam, that sword cuts both ways.  Any BB quotes you have are after the fact, once it was obvious that they made a mistake as a group in not releasing Smile.  I would take any quotes with a grain of salt either way after 1967.  And let's leave it here because we have already proven that none of us will change your mind and you probably won't change ours either.

See above re. after-the-fact. If we observe your restrictions we will have almost nothing to go on because almost all quotes from everyone involved are after the fact; I personally don't agree with your restrictions or assessment of their credibility. 

You leave it where you wish and I don't expect you to change your mind but you may if you decide to.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 14, 2006, 08:37:06 PM
Cam first posts:

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966

Since this was obviously done during the Euopean tour, it doesn't quite capture the period well enough, since most of the issues that were supposed to have happened were in December and beyond.

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

OK, that is one.  But of all of the BB involved and all of the supposed fighting, I would argue that Al was most likely of the original band to have liked it.  If you were to have said that Al liked it, I would not find it hard to agree with you.

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”
“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Very vague and non-specific.  Sounds like he is trying to tow the company line.  No reference to specific Smile music.  You have one with Al, but not with Mike.


Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67

I don't think anyone ever argued that Bruce hated Smile.  But Bruce's opinion didn't really count yet, did it?

The main people who were said to have been opposed were Mike and Carl.  You have one vague Mike quote.


Quote
See above re. after-the-fact. If we observe your restrictions we will have almost nothing to go on because almost all quotes from everyone involved are after the fact; I personally don't agree with your restrictions or assessment of their credibility. 

You leave it where you wish and I don't expect you to change your mind but you may if you decide to.

That's my point.  All we have are considered after-the-fact quotes.  And the BB have not been consistent in their stories since then.  You make it sound like Mike has always been a Smile cheerleader, and yet that simply isn't true.  When we give you quotes that show he disliked it, you pull out some other quote that says Yes he did.  I would argue that once their popularity hit bottom and it was obvious that they made a mistake, it would have been foolish to have said that they hated Smile.  So all non-contemporary quotes (and you just admitted that there aren't that many and none are that useful either way) must be considered with that in mind and the greater evidence considered.  The greater evidence to everyone but you, when factoring in the views of all others who were there on the outside, was that there was significant resistance to the lyrics of Smile at the very least.

Cam, I used to think like you.  I believed that Smiley WAS Smile, that Brian just changed his mind and that was that.  After hearing Smile, seeing Beautiful Dreamer, and reading the 1969 Vosse interview, I just can't maintain that anymore.  Smile as finished was just too good, and I think that Brian knew it could be in 1967.  Certainly Smiley WAS a choice by Brian, certainly Brian was the one who junked Smile, but to say that Mike and maybe Carl weren't influences on that decision is short sighted.  As were drugs and issues that Brian had with VDP.  I suspect that VDP had issues with multiple BB.  I can grant you ground on those if you can admit that maybe, just maybe, Mike had some serious issues with the lyrics and was upset that he was shut out on two straight projects.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on January 14, 2006, 08:41:55 PM
Great job, Jeff.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 16, 2006, 05:45:39 AM

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966

Since this was obviously done during the Euopean tour, it doesn't quite capture the period well enough, since most of the issues that were supposed to have happened were in December and beyond.

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

OK, that is one.  But of all of the BB involved and all of the supposed fighting, I would argue that Al was most likely of the original band to have liked it.  If you were to have said that Al liked it, I would not find it hard to agree with you.

Hasn’t Al been lumped in with the haters by Brian recently?  Al says he was humiliated by singing the animal noises on H&V doesn’t he?

By the time of the first quote Al had sung on GV, WC, HOR/CE, CIFOTM, IIGS, Wonderful plus Prayer and IR, over half of the album, by the time of the 2nd quote he had also sung DYLW, MOS, SU and H&V.

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”
“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Very vague and non-specific.  Sounds like he is trying to tow the company line.  No reference to specific Smile music.  You have one with Al, but not with Mike.

Brian has done “more and more and greater and greater things” up to January 7 but that is vague? Well, I disagree, this seems plainly spoken and inclusive and shows support for Brian and Brian’s new music including SMiLE.

Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67

I don't think anyone ever argued that Bruce hated Smile.  But Bruce's opinion didn't really count yet, did it?

Hasn’t Bruce also claimed humiliation at their treatment by Brian in singing the animal noises; does that [and Al’s complaint over the same thing] show sensitivity or insensitivity to Bruce’s/group opinion?

The main people who were said to have been opposed were Mike and Carl.  You have one vague Mike quote.

Brian has widened that circle considerably recently but maybe we shouldn’t consider that as it is so after-the-fact.

As to the rest of it, we just can’t agree I guess.  You ask for and decry the lack of contemporaneous narratives, they are provided, as have other been, and they are dismissed as illegitimate.  Where are the contemporaneous statements about disliking the SMiLE music?

After the fact narratives are suspect but 4-decades-after-the-fact narratives should be accepted as revelatory?  You will have to help me out with how the Boys’ statements about SMiLE have been inconsistent or contradictory, only contradictions in Brian’s statements spring to mind.

Imo, somehow the Boys’ concerns and opinions have not been seen as legitimate professional, constructive and creative criticism; an entitlement of being part of the group. The greater evidence shows me that the Boys had a few opinions and concerns which they expressed about the SMiLE album that they supported and admired [even when Brian didn’t] and those few opinions and criticisms were either ignored/dismissed by Brian or the Boys were willing or convinced to even support those concerns as all of them were committed to tape by the group. The same goes for the overly ignored like narratives of concerns and criticisms by Brian’s collaborator; somehow those alleged problems between the 2 collaborators are seen as far less significant and, unlike with the Boys, there doesn’t seem to be a general problem with accepting that VDP was both critical and supportive.

I used to think like you do but I don’t see Smiley as SMiLE, Smiley is what Brian wanted to do instead of SMiLE and again over any group objections [which were more strenuous over the SMiLE songs and recordings being junked according to Brian] but still with their support.  To me it seems like there is a resistance to acknowledging how much the Boys were willing to lump and give up and give in for the sake of Brian’s muse.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on January 16, 2006, 07:11:38 AM
Why does it have to be that complicated?
Maybe he just dug the sounds they were coming up with, and decided to put em out!

But Mike didn't raise any issues that we know of and fully cooperated with Smiley.  He did (unless you are Cam) raise concerns and interfere with Smile.  So what's up with that?  And how does that play into Brian's decision?  Let's take your view -- you say that it is an FU by Brian (I don't agree, but work with me).  Given that, why did he choose to make it an FU, and why did Mike say OK to that but reject Smile?  I don't want to start the Thread, but I *am* interested in the dynamics of Smile going to Smiley and the band members views, each one and their thoughts.  All I have seen is Al who seems to have been disheartened by Smiley over Smile.  But it got approved by the band for release.  How?

Just VERY curious, that's all.
Absence of Van Dyke Parks lyrics. That's my answer. Obviously Mike and Van Dyke do not like each other. They have completely different sets of values concerning art, with Brian somewhere in the middle. The songs that got axed were the most Van Dyke-ian of the lyrics; Cabinessence, Do You Like Worms, Surf's Up... Completely different animals, lyrically, than Veggies, Heroes and even Wonderful.

This is the only reason for the band's acceptance of Smiley I can think of, Jeff. I'm curious as to what you think about this.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 16, 2006, 08:31:47 AM
I don't have official documentation on this (and I would love to see Peter Carlin's book shed some light later in the year), but my gut tells me that Carl had some serious issues with performing Smile live, since the live band was getting lambasted as it was by certain quarters of the press (and if you hear the boots from Michigan, you can see why).  So Smiley gets by Carl because they can perform it.  And it gets by Mike for the reasons you specify.  That's what I have long thought but there is such an absence of commentary that it is just speculation.  FWIW I think that Al and Denny probably preferred the old Smile but weren't as influential on Brian's decision making process.

The fact that four of the core five were all clearly ingesting mass quantities of pot by this time probably helped as well.  And yes, that means Mike.  He is high as a kite while doing (absolutely perfect!) vocals for Wind Chimes according to SOT 18.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on January 16, 2006, 08:51:48 AM
Good post. Both the pot and the live angle is definitely to taken into account as well. But while you say it's speculation, it's not exactly clutching at straws either. Mike "couldn't relate" to the lyrics, and the problematic ones are shelved. Even if it's not as clear cut as it may seem, I'll bet a whole Dunkin' Donuts shop that the lyrics were an important factor.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 16, 2006, 09:37:20 AM
When did they ever perform anything from Smiley Smile, aside from Good Vibrations and Heroes and Villains? I could see Carl's point if they subsequently went out and did Whistle In, Little Pad, and With Me Tonight live, but they didn't, did they? Also, I'd love to see them do She's Goin' Bald live!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 16, 2006, 09:51:51 AM
They did do Getting Hungry at Hawaii.  Basically they didn't do any touring during the Smiley era.  Once they toured again as before, they were touring for Wild Honey in October/November.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 16, 2006, 10:24:51 AM
Well, that doesn't really prove that Carl was worried about replicating it onstage, though he may have been; do we have any other evidence to support this?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 16, 2006, 10:49:15 AM
I said it was speculation!!!!


Check out the Smile Shop board -- Peter Carlin has an interesting take on it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on January 16, 2006, 11:26:58 AM
Smile Shop? What's that?  ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on January 16, 2006, 10:29:31 PM
What Peter says fits in with what has been said by the BBs about why Smiley:

1.Brian said at the time he was working too hard for too little satisfaction,

2. Brian apparently told Taylor at the time he felt SMiLE was over-elaborate and outdated,

3. Brian said in that radio interview at the time that "they" wanted a different mood and approach

4. Mike said of Smiley "Brian played the tapes [of songs from "months ago"] again a few times and found it necessary to skip some songs" and "some songs have changed completely".

5. Carl said 15 years later Brian couldn't or didn't want to make a "heavy art album" but wanted to take it easy and make a homespun version.

Smiley took just as many instrumental sessions as Pet Sounds [more actually], so it doesn't seem like less work as far as studio time, although I didn't add up the hours.  That's adding 2 GV sessions to PS and only adding 3 pre-Smiley sessions for Vt and H&V used in Smiley to Smiley dates from June 5 thru July 14. I'm assuming less time was needed for arrangements since fewer instruments were involved although some times it is harder to simplify. 

Doesn't seem to be documentation of Smiley vocal sessions that I'm aware of like there is for Pet Sounds.  Lockert tells of a single all day or all night vocal session; perhaps that was it?  Don't know whether Smiley would have required less, same or more vocal arrangement man hours as Pet Sounds. 

The home studio certainly made it possible for the sessions to blocked for a shorter start to finish album period and I'm sure it made for a more relaxed atmosphere but I'm wondering if Smiley was really, or how much it really was, "easier" or less work.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 17, 2006, 12:26:09 AM
Yeah, I think I am with you on all of that.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on January 17, 2006, 09:55:43 AM
I should send each and every one of you guys here a copy of Os Mutantes' first album if you all dig Smiley Smile so much. It's THAT good. PM me if you're interested.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on January 17, 2006, 11:41:56 AM
When I first heard this album, as a closet Beach Boys fan, it made me realize that I was in fact cool, while everyone else was lame.  This album has all the potency of a hot-knife session.

5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on January 18, 2006, 08:53:29 AM
Also, I'd love to see them do She's Goin' Bald live!
YESYESYES! Me too! They could have inhaled helium on-stage!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 07, 2006, 01:42:18 PM
Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 07, 2006, 02:10:10 PM
Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

That's your opinion now. Let the album settle with you.

In a few months you'll be back, speaking of a different tone.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 07, 2006, 04:09:47 PM
Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

Maybe they did it to piss off sentimental knobs like you.

???? Just throwin' it out there...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 07, 2006, 04:19:50 PM
The unfinished SMiLE sessions, while fun to listen to, would definatly not have topped Smiley Smile.

For SMiLE to work it needs to be completed like a complex jigsaw puzzle. With just the parts, it's still nice, but it's not the full deal/story/picture by any means.

Smiley Smile is a unique album. It will stay that for a long time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 07, 2006, 04:34:38 PM
Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

Don't let the door hit your ass.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 08, 2006, 12:50:19 AM
Come on, look at his username, he's just trying to cause trouble. Don't fall for it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 08, 2006, 12:51:30 AM
AND it's the same guy who posted that fake history in BB Discussion and is NOW posing as Desper in the Desper thread.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theCOD on February 08, 2006, 04:01:58 PM
It's great to see that some people don't just think of Smiley as a SMiLE replacement.  It is my favorite album of all time.  I can listen to it over and over and never get tired of hearing it.  I can listen to it no matter what mood I'm in.  If I'm happy, I love it.  Sad, love it.  Pissed off, love it.  I'd take Smiley over any version of SMiLE.

So, yea, I think it's good.  I give it a 5.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 08, 2006, 04:10:25 PM
Welcome back!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 08, 2006, 04:25:24 PM
I love Dennis' brief appearances throughout Smiley.

"Tinkliiiiiiing".


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 08, 2006, 04:56:42 PM
I like to puff the ganja while I listen to Smiley Smile, man. :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 08, 2006, 05:02:42 PM
I like to tinkle.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 08, 2006, 05:03:05 PM
I like to puff the ganja while I listen to Smiley Smile, man. :)

Does anyone know of a direct refernce to what Carl Wilson spoke of with Smiley and the drug-rehabilitation-places?

He said that people who were on bad trips had been issued Smiley Smile and calmed right down. I've always wondered where this came from exactly and if there is any evidence supporting it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 08, 2006, 05:06:30 PM
I like to tinkle.

You're just a regular old tinkler, aren't you?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 08, 2006, 05:06:54 PM

Does anyone know of a direct refernce to what Carl Wilson spoke of with Smiley and the drug-rehabilitation-places?

He said that people who were on bad trips had been issued Smiley Smile and calmed right down. I've always wondered where this came from exactly and if there is any evidence supporting it.

I believe that was an 80s quote.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 08, 2006, 07:10:50 PM
I meant does anyone know where Carl got his info from about that stuff?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 09, 2006, 01:09:51 AM
Quote
The unfinished SMiLE sessions, while fun to listen to, would definatly not have topped Smiley Smile.

For SMiLE to work it needs to be completed like a complex jigsaw puzzle. With just the parts, it's still nice, but it's not the full deal/story/picture by any means

I totally disagree. The smile sessions alone are in my top 5 albums ever, even though it's not complete. All I'm saying is even if they released the unfinished smile sessions it would've done way better than smiley did. Wind chimes, Wonderful, and Vegetables just ruin smiley smile for me. It hurts me to think that the rest of the band listened to the beautiful smile versions of these songs and came to the conclusion that re-recording "frankenstein versions" of them would be better. The only reason I gave Smiley Smile a 2 is because of Little Pad and Gettin Hungry, but it hardly saves it from going under.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 09, 2006, 01:13:14 AM
It's great to see that some people don't just think of Smiley as a SMiLE replacement.  It is my favorite album of all time.  I can listen to it over and over and never get tired of hearing it.  I can listen to it no matter what mood I'm in.  If I'm happy, I love it.  Sad, love it.  Pissed off, love it.  I'd take Smiley over any version of SMiLE.

So, yea, I think it's good.  I give it a 5.

Me too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 10, 2006, 02:32:53 AM
I think Heroes and Villains is by far the worst rerecording on Smiley Smile.. there was absolutely no reason not to include a better version.

Wouldn't it be something if they recorded a "Smiley Smile version" of Good Vibrations? I can just picture it now, just bass for nearly the whole song, Carl vocally screeching the theremin line, the original Tony Asher chorus but not as upbeat, and at the end of the song all the sudden someone shouts out "Aaah, earthquake!" and there's rumbly sound effects, everyone's screaming, then it all fades away and goes into a wonderful a capella fadeout of "I don't know where but she sends me there, my my my what an elation.."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 08:14:09 AM
That sounds rad. I've always been a sucker for bizarre low-key versions of Good Vibes.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 10:46:27 AM
man, this album was just the worst thing brian wilson di until his solo stuff.  how can anyone, i mean anyone say that this was good? smile, not the new one but the stuff that wasnt released, the session tapes are amazing. surfs up, wonderful, heroes and villians. those songs got butchered in smiley smile, that album got them kicked out of the counter culture scene, it was avant garde it was crap. and  believe me i love the beach boys and have to defend them all the time to people who wont even give em a chance, i think ive heard almost everything they have donw and smiley smile is by far at the bottom of that list of songs. 

if you like this, i think its not actually for liking it, its because you would like anything they did, its the same way when u see some pink rocker listening to some terrible band, he doesnt really like the new punk band but just goes with it because its punk.

 reading this almost made me flip out, i just dont see how anyone could say that perhaps the most amazing album of the last fifty years is not as good as this crap. this album  serves as a head stone on smiles grave , nothing more. anyone who enjoyed the original smile has to be offended by this.  hell, the people who made it said it sucked, brian wilson said it was a piece of sh*t. " a piece of sh*t, an absolute piece of sh*t." maybe that doesnt matter to you guys, i will just have to laugh if i hear anything about mike love being the real brains behind the beach boys or something like that.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 11:19:24 AM
hahaha, mike they think you are posing as desper haha. mike 8902, dude u  nerds are crazy, oh and u should listen to that bbs documentary. i have it on my computer and they trash smiley smile pretty badly.  anyone who isnt a die hard beach boys fan hates this album, its so bad.
mike8902 is his screen name because his actual name is mike, not in reference to mike love


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 11:24:19 AM
Is that crack? Cool! can I have some?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 11:37:06 AM
ya re release it on smiley smile and the song becomes quite ironic
good vibrations = while the song would only give you bad vibrations


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 11:51:04 AM
Hey, I asked you for some crack! It's not polite to not answer, man.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 11:55:03 AM
man, this album was just the worst thing brian wilson di until his solo stuff.  how can anyone, i mean anyone say that this was good? smile, not the new one but the stuff that wasnt released, the session tapes are amazing. surfs up, wonderful, heroes and villians. those songs got butchered in smiley smile, that album got them kicked out of the counter culture scene, it was avant garde it was crap. and  believe me i love the beach boys and have to defend them all the time to people who wont even give em a chance, i think ive heard almost everything they have donw and smiley smile is by far at the bottom of that list of songs. 

if you like this, i think its not actually for liking it, its because you would like anything they did, its the same way when u see some pink rocker listening to some terrible band, he doesnt really like the new punk band but just goes with it because its punk.

 reading this almost made me flip out, i just dont see how anyone could say that perhaps the most amazing album of the last fifty years is not as good as this crap. this album  serves as a head stone on smiles grave , nothing more. anyone who enjoyed the original smile has to be offended by this.  hell, the people who made it said it sucked, brian wilson said it was a piece of merda. " a piece of merda, an absolute piece of merda." maybe that doesnt matter to you guys, i will just have to laugh if i hear anything about mike love being the real brains behind the beach boys or something like that.


You really need to get the foda off this board. You're an idiot.
Thank you.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 10, 2006, 11:59:31 AM
Hey, I asked you for some crack! It's not polite to not answer, man.

Haha, don't waste your time with this guy.  I should'nt even expend this energy, but 1) he thinks we should listen to Brian's opinion about Smiley Smile because he made it, but not think Brian was right to trash Smile????

Anyway -- I had a long post full of insults, but the troll is not worth the energy.  It's hard enough getting the real fans to appreciate Smiley.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 12:03:38 PM
My nice plan was to ask a question about crack for every post, but you and Ian destroyed it. Thank God.  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 10, 2006, 12:07:31 PM
Haha, that would have been funny!  My approach was directing him to a would-be Sandbox thread: "I Am an Attention-Seeking c***."  Yours is much funnier, buddy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 12:09:17 PM
No way, man. Yours would have been much better. Creative hyperlinking as insult is rad.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 12:10:50 PM
Quote
My approach was directing him to a would-be Sandbox thread: "I Am an Attention-Seeking c***."


HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 12:13:19 PM
troll what the hell are u talking about? im pretty pissed off at this album, i came on here because my friend told me there was actually people who liked smilely smile. i didnt believe him, i checked it out, and its true.
how am i an idiot? because i dont like the one of the worst albums ever, U2 has a tough time making sh*t worse than this. smile is my fav album, pet sounds could be too, i think the beach boys are maybe the best band of all time, who knows. im an idiot cause i think this album sucks? dude take  a step back and look at this album just as music and not as some crazy obsesssed fan ( im guilty being one too) and i dont see how you could think it is good. why would you not even bother posting back to me, cause i dont agree? i think i like the beach boys just as much as you and i just get so mad when i see people like this  on punk, hardcore, metal, or beach boys  message boards that think they know everything and never admit anything the people did was bad. u cant rate smiley smile a 5, iits a 1. pet sounds is a 5, good vibrations is a 5. and dont tell me i havent listened to this album, or i dont know anything about the beach boys, ive read all the crap you guys have.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 12:15:33 PM
troll what the hell are u talking about? im pretty pissed off at this album, i came on here because my friend told me there was actually people who liked smilely smile. i didnt believe him, i checked it out, and its true.
how am i an idiot? because i dont like the one of the worst albums ever, U2 has a tough time making merda worse than this. smile is my fav album, pet sounds could be too, i think the beach boys are maybe the best band of all time, who knows. im an idiot cause i think this album sucks? dude take  a step back and look at this album just as music and not as some crazy obsesssed fan ( im guilty being one too) and i dont see how you could think it is good. why would you not even bother posting back to me, cause i dont agree? i think i like the beach boys just as much as you and i just get so mad when i see people like this  on punk, hardcore, metal, or beach boys  message boards that think they know everything and never admit anything the people did was bad. u cant rate smiley smile a 5, iits a 1. pet sounds is a 5, good vibrations is a 5. and dont tell me i havent listened to this album, or i dont know anything about the beach boys, ive read all the crap you guys have.

Take some Percocet, drink a lot of whiskey, and see what happens. We'll all be better off.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 10, 2006, 12:17:46 PM
Don't tell anyone to get off this board, every person has a right to express their opinion. Have you ever heard of Free speech?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 12:18:04 PM
troll what the hell are u talking about? im pretty pissed off at this album, i came on here because my friend told me there was actually people who liked smilely smile. i didnt believe him, i checked it out, and its true.
how am i an idiot? because i dont like the one of the worst albums ever, U2 has a tough time making merda worse than this. smile is my fav album, pet sounds could be too, i think the beach boys are maybe the best band of all time, who knows. im an idiot cause i think this album sucks? dude take  a step back and look at this album just as music and not as some crazy obsesssed fan ( im guilty being one too) and i dont see how you could think it is good. why would you not even bother posting back to me, cause i dont agree? i think i like the beach boys just as much as you and i just get so mad when i see people like this  on punk, hardcore, metal, or beach boys  message boards that think they know everything and never admit anything the people did was bad. u cant rate smiley smile a 5, iits a 1. pet sounds is a 5, good vibrations is a 5. and dont tell me i havent listened to this album, or i dont know anything about the beach boys, ive read all the crap you guys have.


You're not an idiot because you don't like SMiLE. You're an idiot because you are stupid. If I were a moderator I would erase your posts. If I were God I'd erase your existence.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 12:18:39 PM
Don't tell anyone to get off this board, every person has a right to express their opinion. Have you ever heard of Free speech?

Whoa whoa whoa...who told anyone to get off the board? Methinks you're reading too much into my posts, sir.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 12:19:22 PM
Don't tell anyone to get off this board, every person has a right to express their opinion. Have you ever heard of Free speech?

I'll say what I want, moron. You and your crony, get married and jump off a cliff.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 10, 2006, 12:20:47 PM
If I were a moderator I would erase your posts. If I were God I'd erase your existence.

Reread that as an irate Arnold Schwartzeneggar, dude.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
Matt and Mike, we don't hate you because you don't like Smiley Smile. We hate you because you have the audacity to tell us how you think we think. That's a no-no, son.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
If I were a moderator I would erase your posts. If I were God I'd erase your existence.

Reread that as an irate Arnold Schwartzeneggar, dude.

Awww man, that's good.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 10, 2006, 12:28:34 PM
troll what the hell are u talking about?

You came here to piss off a few people that love the album.  If your posts contained some essence of grammar, I might take you seriously.

Quote
im pretty pissed off at this album

Why?  No one else gives a f*** about it.

Quote
i came on here because my friend told me there was actually people who liked smilely smile. i didnt believe him, i checked it out, and its true.

I have friends who rush to tell me that people online are talking about obscure albums that no one gives a sh*t about, too.

Quote
i think the beach boys are maybe the best band of all time

Quote
because i dont like the one of the worst albums ever

Makes sense.

Quote
who knows.

Not you.

Quote
dude take  a step back and look at this album just as music and not as some crazy obsesssed fan ( im guilty being one too) and i dont see how you could think it is good.

We've all taken a step back and written about it a lot more than you ever will.  Try creating something yourself instead of starting your posting history here with sh*t like "This is one of the worst albums of all time."  If you don't like it, try listing some reasons why instead of calling worthwhile posters here deluded.  If you can't -- wouldn't your time be better wasted with PS2?

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i think i like the beach boys just as much as you and i just get so mad when i see people like this  on punk, hardcore, metal, or beach boys  message boards that think they know everything and never admit anything the people did was bad.

There are other people out there that are actually allowing you to listen to and discuss music?

Quote
u cant rate smiley smile a 5, iits a 1.

1) You can't fucking type.  We all make mistakes, but you are one.

2) If we can't complain to you for hating the album, why can't we call it a 5?  Why are you telling us what to think if you don't like that being done to you?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 12:30:41 PM
FU CK ING PWNED.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 10, 2006, 12:32:05 PM
(http://home.comcast.net/~phantomlord13666/pwned.jpg)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 10, 2006, 12:35:14 PM
--- Back to the music ---

I Listened to Smiley Smile today and kept it on repeat.

I had it on while writing a paper which I was having trouble concentrating with. I sat down and listened through the first two cuts, then during Fall Breaks I went back into writing and out poured the paper. It helped.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 10, 2006, 12:39:47 PM
Hahaha, great picture, Ian.

H&V, I've written to Smiley a lot.  It's a really comforting album, partly because it's honest.  They're not consoling you with forced optimism.  So I think that album can help you through tough times, or just help you get things done, like a paper.  What was your paper on?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 12:58:35 PM
hahahahaha
owned? ok.  you definitly showed me, maybe im just as bad for responding to this. this would be such a better conversation in person.  now im wishing i had made sure the grammar was all perfect, i didnt think anyone would care cause it is the internet. im not reading any of these posts worrying about grammar, but thats not even the point. maybe i was a little too insulting with my initial posts, ok thats fine.  its just... this album, this album is soooo bad.  for better or for worse the beach boys are something that comes up everyday in conversation in the crowd i hang out with,  i dont come on to these boards that often because this is different than talking about a band and listening to the music and disecctiing with someone and lookin at different session tapes, its just not the same. plus these boards are filled with alot of dicks that spend all their time posting on boards like this and are good at getting away from the topic and fights start and then its just insults back and forth with little do do about the topic. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 01:01:27 PM
i dont have these message board fights often, or really ever. however i would like to argue with you the guy who dissected my posts about smiley smile, i never talked to anyone before that liked this album so at least give me that


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 01:02:17 PM
I don't think these boards are full of dicks. In fact, most of the people here are wonderful. The 'dick' percentage has increased the last few days, though.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 01:03:59 PM
I'm a dick, Even. I'll admit to it too. I'm not a nice guy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Evenreven on February 10, 2006, 01:06:28 PM
Yes you are!  (http://www.driftingalong.com/wp-images/smilies/hug.gif)

(a nice guy, that is. Not a dick.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 01:09:48 PM
Don't flatter me. I'm not easy to get along with.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 01:12:58 PM
ya because i joined right? haha. the funny thing is, u guys want to say im a dick too and are pissed at me prejudging you assuming that if you think one thing you think another. we could actually probably have conversations about this great band that alot of people cant,  face the facts though. you are all nerds, geeks, freaks, whatever. i am too. we ALL are, we are on a smiley smile message board discussing a band that most teens today laugh at. ok, we all suck. as much as it pisses me off that people on here like smiley smile, at least you know what it is,  at least i can fight with you about smiley smile sucking or not, and its not about whether or not the beach boys were a good band at all


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 01:14:10 PM
Well you have a long way to go before you convince some of the more prestigious posters here, not to mention our fearless leader.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on February 10, 2006, 01:33:40 PM
Well you have a long way to go before you convince some of the more prestigious posters here, not to mention our fearless leader.
Our fearless leader... This guy?!! Nope....

OHHhh... THIS guy!!
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/99f8d9184f.jpg)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 10, 2006, 01:33:49 PM
wait we arent geeks for discussing this on this board? cause im sure 99% of the general population would laugh at both sides of this argument.
i just think the album is bad, i think it shouldve had a different name or something, plus it upsets me to hear sych horrible rendintions of such great songs. how can you get mad at a guy when he doesnt like to hear what he considers to be the best songs written in the last fifty years butchered and distorted and changed all around.

whether or not it is better or worse is opinion, i will agree to that, but cant you see how if smile is your fav album, smiley smile could have the tendency to really piss you off.   the ablum gives me bad vibes, to me its like a zombie version of smile. a ghost of it or something. i dunno, theres bad vocal tracks on it, laughing, mess ups, slow stupid version of wind chimes.  i dont think i would hate this album nearly as much however if smile had been released, i think its a combination of the weird renditions plus them not releasing the far better album(smile)

i got really mad too and was pissed when i made my first post cause i just read a post that said the orignal smile tapes are only fun to listen to for a novelty aspect, or something to that affect. its my fav album of all time i think, even unfinished. i feel bad for anyone that doesnt feel that way, i feel like your missing out, i wish you could understand the way that album makes me feel, then maybe u would be arguing on my side, not against me and insulting someone who loves brian wilsons music 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 10, 2006, 01:36:21 PM
Kevin I thought our fearless leader was the fella in your avatar.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: monkee knutz on February 10, 2006, 02:32:08 PM
My mistake! See above edit! The Wine-stoned Cowboy.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 12:15:03 PM
Whatever happened to a good old debate? You guys obviously don't engage in them much, you just throw insults at someone who has a different opinion. I don't see how anyone was being a dick except you guys. Is it okay to like smiley smile? Yes cause it's your own opinion. Is it okay to hate smiley smile? YES. No one is telling you how to think, I think it's the other way around. We just said that we hate smiley smile, and you and your nerd friends gang up on us and hurl insults.

Quote
There are other people out there that are actually allowing you to listen to and discuss music?

What is your problem? Me and matt are constantly discussing the beach boys and having insightful conversations. In fact Matt is my favorite person to discuss music with. He knows what he is talking about, because we are both avid musicians so we can actually discuss music face to face, in depth, instead of on a board where assholes like you bitch about typos and grammar.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 12:17:04 PM
Go and discuss it with Matt, then! Just remember to use protection!
We'll have fun being nerds here and making fun of people we don't like.  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 12:22:01 PM
OOOOOO OWWWWWWNEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDD


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 12:24:29 PM
If you two have such insightful conversations then why don't you prove it? Maybe then we'll all get off of your backs. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 12:25:48 PM
Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. Haven't seen any insight yet from the butt brigade.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
Guys, we can take differing opinions here. But when you come on and try to tell us how you think we should think and how you THINK we think, that's a problem. You're the ones who look like assholes, not us.

Hell, we should start a flame-war thread in the Sandbox if these two guys don't wise up.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 12:58:07 PM
Okay you want to know what is wrong with smiley smile?

Heroes and Villains- Pretty much the same as the Smile version EXCEPT they left out the "In the Cantina" section which makes me pretty angry.
Vegetables- I think this is crap. I hate the "low-key" aspect of this version with the stupid bass playing the roots most of the time. The Smile version had much more going on. Innovative percussive fills, better vocals, and just a far superior arrangement.
Fall Breaks and Back To Winter- Probably the weirdest smiley track, but in a bad way. It gives me really bad vibes and is really bland. Fire from the Smile sessions is just so much better.
She's Goin Bald-  One of the only reasons I gave Smiley a 2. I like this version of the song except the end.
Little Pad- Another one I like, but I have a feeling if it was a Smile arrangement it would've been way better, I'm not a fan of the laugh/singing parts.
Good Vibrations- The best version of the song, but it should've been the climax of Smile and not Smiley.
Wind Chimes- This song is one of the reasons I really hate Smiley. They took every bit of energy and emotion out of the Smile version when they re-recorded this "frankenstein version". The backround vocals just flat out suck, and I simply can't comprehend the reason people like this more than the smile versions. The "Tinkling" part makes me want to throw up. Just terrible.
Gettin Hungry- Another okay song. But it's just okay. Mediocrity.
Wonderful- The other reason I really hate Smiley. The arrangement is very similar to wind chimes. The Smile version of this is perhaps the most beautiful piece of music I've ever heard, and the Smiley version is probably the worst piece of music I've ever heard. No emotion and no depth.  I just don't know what the boys were thinking on this one. Brian must've been very pissed. 
Whistle In- Stupid and bland.

I really don't know what else to say about this album. The Beach Boys arrangements of Brians songs are just terrible period. Brian Wilson is the best songwriter and arranger ever, not the beach boys. This album is what happens when you don't give Brian full control. This album ruined the Beach Boys career whether you guy's want to admit it or not. Pet sounds was them at the top of a mountain and Smiley Smile is them all falling off the peak and landing 300 feet below.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:00:37 PM
If you listen to the session tapes for this album, Brian is VERY much in charge. And yes, it did ruin their career. But we've had almost 40 years to listen to it. Some of us appreciate it for what it is. For me, it's a very relaxing album.

You left With Me Tonight out, by the way.  ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:01:53 PM
Wind Chimes is my favorite BB recording, ever.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:02:21 PM
Sure, it's relaxing but I'm just very mad that smile wasn't released and this was that is all. And with me tonight is okay too, but again it's kind of bland.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:03:29 PM
Quote
Wind Chimes is my favorite BB recording, ever.


It's one of my favorites too but NOT the smiley version.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:04:03 PM
SMiLE was released. It's name was changed to SMiLEY SMiLE.
The SMiLE version of Chimes is bland and undynamic to my ears.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:04:13 PM
What if I told you Smile WAS finished contemporaneously (reasonably)?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:07:43 PM
Quote
SMiLE was released. It's name was changed to SMiLEY SMiLE.
The SMiLE version of Chimes is bland and undynamic to my ears.

I just really can't understand where you're coming from, sorry. Clean out your ears maybe?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 11, 2006, 01:12:34 PM
wind chimes is bland? wow man. if you think the smile version is bland how could you define the smiley smile version as any but.  and are u seriously resorting to calling me a fag? the butt brigade? im not calling you gay, questioning your sexuality, and you would never say that to my face if we were discussing this.  honestly, i want to discuss this but stop taunting me in ways you never would in person.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:13:25 PM
He does have a point, Wind Chimes isn't one of the better examples of Brian's production genius in its Smile incarnation. It benefitted from a minimalist version that appeared on Smiley Smile. The tune is more beautiful that way.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 11, 2006, 01:14:06 PM
anything but*
and that guy from the bbc program said it best when he said the name smiley smile serves as a headstone for smile


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 11, 2006, 01:15:08 PM
im not talking about 2004 smile, im talkin about the old stuff.  im never reffering to the 2004 smile


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:15:38 PM
Smile was finished in 1971 by Brian Wilson. Just not many people know about it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:16:19 PM
wind chimes is bland? wow man. if you think the smile version is bland how could you define the smiley smile version as any but.  and are u seriously resorting to calling me a fag? the butt brigade? im not calling you gay, questioning your sexuality, and you would never say that to my face if we were discussing this.  honestly, i want to discuss this but stop taunting me in ways you never would in person.

Oh, yes I would. And more.

Chimes on SMiLEY is creepy, melting and intense.
It's just a nice little transition on SMiLE. On SMiLEY it's a major work.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:17:08 PM

Chimes on SMiLEY is creepy, melting and intense.
It's just a nice little transition on SMiLE. On SMiLEY it's a major work.

I agree 100%, man. Great post.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:19:30 PM
Quote
He does have a point, Wind Chimes isn't one of the better examples of Brian's production genius in its Smile incarnation. It benefitted from a minimalist version that appeared on Smiley Smile. The tune is more beautiful that way.

Well we both have different definitions of beauty then. The smile version is upbeat, happy sounding and then goes into a rocking breakdown part and eventually goes into the beautiful "Whisperin winds send my wind chimes a tinklin". The Smile version of that section is my definition of beauty. I would say that arrangement shows brians genius in all forms. The upbeat verses, the rocking breakdown "bom bom bom" and then the beautiful accapella outro. Smiley smiles version is SO bland and has NO dynamics.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:22:17 PM
Brian produced the Smiley Smile version, man. Listen to the session tapes. Brian is clearly the man in charge of the Smiley Smile sessions.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:23:34 PM
Quote
smile version is upbeat, happy sounding and then goes into a rocking breakdown part and eventually goes into the beautiful "Whisperin winds send my wind chimes a tinklin".

That's the 2004 version.

SMiLEY has no dynamics???? HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
That Chimes DEFINES dynamics. You have to actually TURN UP THE VOLUME TO HEAR THE ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you think dynamics are?
Bland??????? It is one of the most malevolent and eerie pieces ever released by any artist!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:24:59 PM
Quote
Brian produced the Smiley Smile version, man. Listen to the session tapes. Brian is clearly the man in charge of the Smiley Smile sessions.

Well maybe he was, but he was under enormous pressure from the band and the record company and sacrificed his visions of grandeur to make them happy and he lost himself in the process. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:26:48 PM
I don't know man, he seemed to be really into that minimalist sound, so much so that he accompanied the band to Hawaii for two shows and arranged all the material in the same minimalistic manner. The tapes are out there, listen to them. Smiley Smile is the natural evolution of Smile in Brian Wilson's mind.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:27:21 PM
Quote
That's the 2004 version.

Ummm well you clearly don't have the 66 smile sessions I have. I've heard it with my own ears. And yes it is the 2004 version of smile too, but it was intact in 66.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:28:32 PM
Yes, all those sections existed in '66. The "whispering winds" section on Smiley Smile's version of Wind Chimes is also a Smile-era recording.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:30:40 PM
Quote
That's the 2004 version.

Ummm well you clearly don't have the 66 smile sessions I have. I've heard it with my own ears. And yes it is the 2004 version of smile too, but it was intact in 66.

I had all the sessions when you were listening to Van Hagar.  ::)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:31:19 PM
Dude I have it all and some unbooted stuff too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:31:52 PM
Well, PM me!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:32:24 PM
Brian seemed to be into, because he just wanted to make everyone happy. Why is that up until 2004 whenever Smile was mentioned in an interview he says it's a "bad area for me". He was obviously hurt that the rest of the guys didn't want to go along with his beautiful vision of Smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:33:32 PM
The rest of the guys? They were all for it, except for Mike, who still did his work on the material. Believe me, they were mostly FOR him. Wasn't it Dennis Wilson who said that Smile was so good that it made Pet Sounds stink?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:33:43 PM
Well the sessions I have Wind Chimes is pieced together exactly as I stated.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:34:58 PM
Mike Love drove Van Dyke away, and Brian had no one left to bounce the ideas he was going for off of so he abandoned it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:35:30 PM
Brian seemed to be into, because he just wanted to make everyone happy. Why is that up until 2004 whenever Smile was mentioned in an interview he says it's a "bad area for me". He was obviously hurt that the rest of the guys didn't want to go along with his beautiful vision of Smile.

He associated SMiLE with his mental breakdown. SMiLEY and Love You are FAR weirder than SMiLE. Why were those allowed to be released by those mean mean men, the BB's?

Van Dyke does not agree with that version of events, Mike.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:35:51 PM
Mike didn't drive anyone away. Van Dyke doesn't say that either.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:37:27 PM
VDP SOLELY lays the blame for his departure at Brian's feet. He had a record contract and an album pending. He didn't have time to babysit Brian any more.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:38:02 PM
Ian, check your PMs.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:40:25 PM
I don't know man I've heard van dyke say he was getting pissed off by mike love and I have an interview of him saying " When it came to the point that I was getting in the way of brothers and their relationships, I decided to back out" or something to that extent.

Also Smiley Smiles credits say Produced by The Beach Boys. It was the first beach boys album that didn't credit brian as sole producer. And yes Love you is just as weird as Smiley, but it's a very good weird, where smiley is a bad vibe weird(for me at least). I love Love You. Brian had complete creative control over Love you and he didn't over Smiley. He might've had a lot of control of Smiley but not all of it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:42:10 PM
He did have complete control over Smiley Smile. In fact, the Smiley Smile sessions were considered Smile sessions!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:44:13 PM
I dont know man I can't agree with you. We have conflicting sources of information.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:44:35 PM
He did not have complete control of Love You. It was finished by Carl after Brian abandoned it.

VDP WAS pissed off by Mike, but you know, that didn't stop him from appearing again for Sail On Sailor, Day In The Life Of A Tre, and, yes, SUMMER IN PARADISE!!!!!!!!!!
VDP was tired of the weirdness Brian was exhibiting. Exactly what Mike was tired of.
The reason VDP and Mike dislike each other is because they are smilar.
They both used Brian to further their own artistic vision (witness Brian saying it was scary SMiLE because he felt VDP was "controlling" him).

Have you heard the SMiLEY sessions, Mike?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:45:37 PM
I'm sorry, my information and sources are impeccable. That is how it went down.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 01:51:46 PM
I think you guys are twisting the facts. Why isn't Brian credited as the sole producer if he had complete control? When Brian is credited as Sole producer, brians stamp is all over it. Everything up to Pet Sounds and the Smile sessions. And then boom a weird change of direction when brian isn't a sole producer on Smiley. And then finally when brian is credited as sole producer on Love you, the magic is back, his stamp is all over it. And not so much on any of the other records. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 01:54:14 PM
It was Brian's idea to put the "Produced By The Beach Boys" tag on the album. Why, I don't know. Good old Brian, I guess.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 01:57:32 PM
I think you guys are twisting the facts. Why isn't Brian credited as the sole producer if he had complete control? When Brian is credited as Sole producer, brians stamp is all over it. Everything up to Pet Sounds and the Smile sessions. And then boom a weird change of direction when brian isn't a sole producer on Smiley. And then finally when brian is credited as sole producer on Love you, the magic is back, his stamp is all over it. And not so much on any of the other records. 

HAVE YOU HEARD THE SESSIONS????

Brian is as in control there as any sessions before that.
His stamp is all over SMiLEY. What BB records that Brian did not produce sound remotely like it?
There's plenty of other Brian stuff that sounds exactly of a piece.
The BB's wanted to do stuff like I Can Hear Music. Brian wanted spare minimalism.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 02:01:43 PM
I've heard some of the smiley sessions not all. And again, he had control but not COMPLETE control. He abandoned his brilliant complex ideas because "No one wants to help me look for places, where new things might be found."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 02:12:05 PM
SMiLEY is a different complexity. The vocals are just as, if not more, complex, than anything the band did. He wanted to highlight the voices, not obscure them with music, as a reaction to his feelings that with SMiLE he had (direct quote) "gotten into a bag that was no fodaing good for vocals".


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 03:21:07 PM
It's true that the Smile Vocal parts aren't as complex as their earlier material, but the music really really shines. The Smile version vocals of the songs are very neat and tidy, where the smiley smile versions sound off-beat at times and not well rehearsed.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 03:22:51 PM
It's true that the Smile Vocal parts aren't as complex as their earlier material, but the music really really shines. The Smile version vocals of the songs are very neat and tidy, where the smiley smile versions sound off-beat at times and not well rehearsed.

Smile vocals aren't as complex as the earlier material? I have to disagree, man. The Smile vocals are their most complicated vocals. If you listen to the sessions, they would go over tiny sections as many as 50 times before Brian was satisfied.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 03:28:35 PM
Don't get me wrong I think they are complex. But I think like "And your dreams come true" and the today vocal arrangements are more complex than the smile vocals(minus Our Prayer), because Today and their earlier stuff focused mainly on the vocal parts, and smile was a double-whammy of music and vocals.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 03:35:20 PM
Smile focused almost entirely on the vocals, Smile's music isn't really complex, either in its chording or its production. A lot of the tunes are three-chord jams that you could do on a few acoustic guitars. Pet Sounds has more intricate music, but Smile has more intricate vocal parts.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 03:43:42 PM
Well yes, the chord structure is simple but the layering of the smile music is what's complex. There are so many things going on. I agree that pet sounds had much more intricate music. Aside from Our Prayer and Heroes and Villains, they've done more complex vocal arrangements. Their earlier vocal work had a lot of 5 part harmonies, and you don't see it as much on Smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 03:48:49 PM
I don't think there's much going on in the Smile productions. Not as layered as Pet Sounds' tracks were. Guitar, bass, piano, organ, harpsichord, drums, occasional string sections, percussion. Nothing you can't find on Pet Sounds, but used sparingly.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 03:50:39 PM
What about Cabin Essence? The "Who Ran the Iron Horse" part I think there is a ton of stuff going on. I agree that it's not as layered as Pet Sounds, and that's what makes Smile more accessible.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 03:51:27 PM
All I hear on Cabin Essence are fuzz bass, cello, percussion, and maybe a guitar.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 03:53:45 PM
I hear string bass, and more.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 03:59:35 PM
I meant to include the grand coulle part also.  drums, a clownhorn type instrument, guitar, fuzz bass, a guitar hitting the strings on the very head of the guitar to make it sound like a railroad crossing, the vocals sweeping up and down some weird scale, tambourine,strings. I would say that's pretty layered, but not as much as pet sounds of course. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 04:01:11 PM
Why does something having MORE sound-layers automatically make it superior to your ears?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 04:01:18 PM
Exactly.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:07:56 PM
Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like sh*t.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:09:01 PM
OOO OWNEEEEEDDD


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 04:09:28 PM
Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like merda.

Not telling you how I think, the exactly was directed at you.

Layers don't mean sh*t, what matters is a good song. Both Pet Sounds and Smile have them. The Smile songs on Smiley Smile are still the songs.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:11:46 PM
I was referring to ian about the telling me how I think.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 04:12:07 PM
Ahhhhhhhhh.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 04:13:38 PM
Well first of all because it shows how complex brians ideas were, and that he could fill the song to the brim with instruments and still make it accessible. He "saturated the tape with sounds".

Now, adding a ton of layers doesn't mean it's automatically superior to my ears. Listening to Pet Sounds on first listen, I never really thought how layered it was because it just sounded good to me. Then as I got more and more into the album I began realizing how brilliantly put together it all was.

And now here you are telling me how I think. You are contradicting yourself buddy. You can add a ton of layers and have it come out like merda.



You are contradicting yourself, asswipe, because you praise Brian's layered productions while denying him the true complexity of trying different things on different records.
SMiLE is mostly comprised of droning 2 and 3-chord hypnotic patterns. The 66 production attempts to distract from this with bells and whistles. Brian got honest with SMiLEY and produced tracks that are true to the spirit of the compositions, as the PS productions are true to the spirit of truly complex, symphonic chordal patterns.
You want Brian to be complex? Try Girls On The Beach, for my money the most head-spinningly modal song he ever composed.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:21:17 PM
Well we're back to the point. Brian WAS doing something different than pet sounds. Smile would've been a much better approach than smiley smile. He could've done a smiley smile type album after he released the real smile. I'm just angry that Smile was sacrificed for that album.

And I agree that Girls on the Beach has brians most interesting chord changes. Simply Brilliant.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 04:25:22 PM
OK then!
Let's move on to posting about what you DO like.
You see, the reason you got such a harsh welcome here is that you made your first posts harshly attacking something many people hold dear. That, my friend, is the definition of a troll.
Tell us what you love, show your knowledge, THEN tell us what you don't like, and we'll all take it well.
Become a valued member of the board, I would welcome that.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 04:26:07 PM
Me too, man. I'm enjoying this conversation here. You guys definitely have some potential for some great conversations here.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:29:13 PM
Hahah well I had to get it out of my system. I just really haven't met anyone I know that likes smiley smile and then I came to the board and so all this praise and I had to express my opinion. You guys shouldn't be so harsh off the bat, we're all on this board for some sort of debate, so let's start off like that!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 04:29:39 PM
Yes, now go in the other threads and get to know people!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 11, 2006, 04:32:05 PM
Agreed.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 04:32:14 PM
 ;D

Hazing is a fraternity tradition.

Good to meet you, Mike.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 11, 2006, 05:32:00 PM
You have to give it to him, even while backing down and compromising his thoughts he still stuck by his word of disliking the album.

Smile's Vocal Parts - Just as rehearsed and figured out. CIFOTM, Cabinessence, DYLW, HnV, etc.

To justify Smiley for being more stripped down and simple, you have to realize the natural progression Brian was leading down. He had started off with complexity, testing the boundaries with that which ultimatly resulted in Pet Sounds. Then he started trying simple stuff. Much like the Beatles making 3-4 minute Sitar-Drone pieces which still hold form as pop music. He then applied his newer, less complex, yet still brilliant music to detailed yet sparse productions. That's why we have all of the, "Slice Of Life" tunes from the years after. Just his natural progression as a songwriter, exploring all of his abilities and ideas.

Simple fact is, Brian Wilson could make a fart sound complex and beautiful. He's got the spark.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 11, 2006, 05:52:48 PM
you know what a good way to describe smiley smile ? if you have seen that movie sgt pepper with the peter frampton doing musical versions of the beatles, thats what smiley smile is to smile. maybe the album would be ok to me if smile had been released, as kind of a weird parallel universe version of smile, but instead it just is a reminder of brian losing control of his life. to me at least


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 05:54:18 PM
I thought Brian lost control of his life during Smile. You don't hear of any breakdowns or freak-outs during the Smiley Smile period. Smiley Smile was safer for him.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
you know what a good way to describe smiley smile ? if you have seen that movie sgt pepper with the peter frampton doing musical versions of the beatles, thats what smiley smile is to smile. maybe the album would be ok to me if smile had been released, as kind of a weird parallel universe version of smile, but instead it just is a reminder of brian losing control of his life. to me at least

But the Pepper movie versions are mainstream, safe and orchestrated.
SMiLEY is frail, damaged and uncommercial.

I don't see the comparison.
One is safe, one is brave.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 11, 2006, 06:18:40 PM
Smiley Smile does actually scare people.

I played it for someone who thought the Beach Boys were all Fun, Fun, Fun and they were physically and mentally uncomfortable during the whole play. They weren't ready for it.

Not that I love the album because it scares some people. It puts the exact opposite emotion in me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 06:19:32 PM
It saved a friend of mine's life during a bad acid trip.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 06:20:44 PM
I think Smiley Smile is scary music. Evil, even. That's why I love it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 11, 2006, 06:24:10 PM
I think Smiley Smile is scary music. Evil, even. That's why I love it.

It can go both ways.

Some days Wind Chimes is loving, etheral, and breezy. Other days it's dark, dreary, and unwelcoming.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 06:25:14 PM
Exactly. It's what you bring to it. It's an emotional mirror.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 11, 2006, 06:28:35 PM
Seriously, sit in the dark, smoke a little weed, and listen to Smiley Smile. You will be blown away.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 11, 2006, 08:58:09 PM
I just listened to the album.

My setting:

Bedroom.
Lights off.
TV off.
Fan off.
Heat vents OPEN.

How I heard:

Speakers from stereo.
On Bed.
Propped up on some books.
Me slunched on bed.
Staring at the ceiling.

What I heard:

Beautiful music
Inspirational music
Spiritual music

....................................

It made my night.

I am cheesy.  :D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 11, 2006, 09:25:14 PM
Quote
I am cheesy. 

No, you just know what's goin' on!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on February 11, 2006, 10:16:42 PM
"Whispering winds" is one of the most beautiful, moving passages in the Beach Boys catalogue.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 12, 2006, 04:25:17 AM
u think that the movie sgt pepper isnt friggin weird? that movie is as smiley smile as it gets. i have smoked weed and listened to smiley smile, its better to smoke to smile in my opinion still. everything you say to me about smiley smile can be felt better in smile.  the weirdest thing thouhg i cant seem to understand is how anyone can like the twisted versions of the best songs maybe from smile which are wind chimes and wonderful. the smiley smile versions of those songs make me cringe, they were maybe the coolest songs from smile, even the unfinished wind chimes is just amazing.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 12, 2006, 09:57:28 AM
Wind Chimes was actually finished during Smile. Wonderful was finished once and attempted three other times.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 12, 2006, 10:28:51 AM
well, im sure there is a finished version of wind chimes out there, but ther version i have is different than the 2004 version, they go on for a while in that heavy part where as in the 66 one its only a few measures


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 12, 2006, 10:35:01 AM
There was a comp reel made of the work on Wind Chimes, it featured the verse, the "chorus" and the tag. Didn't feature the bridge that was on BWPS, but that was recorded in '66.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 12, 2006, 03:48:44 PM
Why do people so many people use the "SMiLE" capitalization on Smiley Smile? The Ms, Ls, Es, and Y are lowercased too, ya know..


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 12, 2006, 06:18:56 PM
i was not prepared. in 1990.

i tripped to the 2 fer in '91...i descibed it s a Warner bros. cartoon show, with each tune
serving as individual shorts. very pastiche/pastoral.

my friends girlfriend literally swooned at the harmonies of their hearts were full....
i'll never forget this moment. definately made a believer out of my friend this night.

then we came down to the wonderful psychosis that is UMMAGUMMA!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 12, 2006, 07:28:13 PM
Purveyors of outrageously gorgeous psychedelia and back again. This set proves that the greatest American rock band was also the most experimental.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 13, 2006, 03:30:30 AM
What a curious read the last 10 pages of this thread have been...  This is stream of consciousness type crap, so excuse me if I contradict myself.

Well, Smiley Smile... I spun you tonight, in all your glory... and I suppose if there's one BB's album that polarizes opinion, it's you... as the 27 pages of this thread demonstrate.   I can't remember what rating I gave this album, I believe around 3 1/2, which after my listen this evening, seems fair. 

This may achieve the reactions, "Oh, that's too low for this masterpiece!" or "Too high for this pile of crap!"... Because that's what Smiley does.  I would imagine that, if Brian was 'in control' as many of you contend, then his intention was to split the fan base into those who 'get it' and those who don't.

But is there anything here to 'get'?  Ian, Chris, et al would contend absolutely that there is...  That this is genius fractured through the smokey haze of Brian Wilsons living room.  This is correct.  Other's say that it's too experimental, too uncommercial.  This too is correct.  And once again, people say that's it's a steaming pile of crap.  I wouldn't tell them they're wrong. 

Because I feel that Smiley can be everything, nothing or anything you want it to be. I believe Ian used the term "it is what you bring to it"...  some days the album is a 4 1/2 star effort for me, others, it leaves me cold and I would be tempted to give it a lowly 1.


So what do I like about it?  The apparent spontaneity of proceedings, there's flair in these vocals... "You're too late Mama, ain't nuttin' upside yo head!"... It doesn't sound like the rehearsed to buggery schmuck of the Pet Sounds vocals... there are bung notes throughout, and yet there's a 'vibe' established that can't be attained through "spit 'n polish".   The stripped back arrangements really make the vocals come to the fore.

Wind Chimes has been hotly contended, and personally, I think both versions are flawed, and they come out about even.  Smiley has the 'vibe', and yet Brian makes it blatantly obvious through sound effect what the song is about,  NOT communicating in music.  What I like about the Smile version (apart from the gorgeous trumpet line) is the fact that Brian uses Marimbas to communicate the idea that the song is about Wind Chimes, without actually using chimes.  What I mean is, if you got rid of the vocals, the Smile version is cleverer in that you'd guess the song was maybe about Windchimes, without actually hearing a chime anywhere.  This is brilliant.  Paints a brilliant picture musically without words, while it's the vocals on Smiley that bump it up.

What don't I like about Smiley...  It's too short.  The album is just too, freakin' short.  Just as a mood is established, it's gone. 

While I respect it's sonic brilliance, the album really leaves me feeling cold and disconnected more often than not.  "With Me Tonight" for example, is probably the only track that really leaves me speechless for it's beauty... Of course there are glimpes of heartbreaking beauty throughout... Windchimes coda, Little Pad humming (my personal favourite) Getting Hungry verses (Mike sure was a great soul singer... "If it weren't for the love of a woman..."), etc...  But these, I feel, are too few and far between.

But then, I'm not terribly moved by BWPS or much of the Smile material in general... or much Pet Sounds... so, who knows...  It must be me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 13, 2006, 01:42:20 PM
Best review in the whole thread.

Great post.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 13, 2006, 03:31:07 PM
'ey thanks Heroes, appreciate it...

It's a real bastard of an album in that sense...

Sometimes I'll stick it on, expecting it to be great, and I'm dissapointed.

Othertimes, I can put it on, expecting it to be great, and it exceeds my expectations.

Or I'll put it on, not really expecting much at all, and it could be great, or worse than I remembered.

Regardless of my mood, it just... plays games with ya.  Very interactive record.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 13, 2006, 03:38:47 PM
Bollocks to you, mr. clown face! enough tommyrock, rubbish and balderdash!!!!!
 YOU creep me out w/ this avatar you got.

Smiley Smile is the plumbline to which ALL psychedelic records of Any time
will bow to and wish they would make!!!!!

Once again to you, Split Enz is not my example of Power pop. I say this...
they are Genesis ripoffs in the first order.

Crowded House were better. dont dream its over has mendala concert written all over it.
they were real.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 13, 2006, 03:40:57 PM
'ey thanks Heroes, appreciate it...

It's a real bastard of an album in that sense...

Sometimes I'll stick it on, expecting it to be great, and I'm dissapointed.

Othertimes, I can put it on, expecting it to be great, and it exceeds my expectations.

Or I'll put it on, not really expecting much at all, and it could be great, or worse than I remembered.

Regardless of my mood, it just... plays games with ya.  Very interactive record.

Man I respect every word you say, mainly due to your signature animation.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 13, 2006, 04:01:09 PM
Ahh yes, Edward Van Helgen.  It's a shame when you have to draw your pistol and blow his banjo in two :(

theeponymuseudonym, it seems there is a bee in your bonnet.  Have we met?  Are you from the other forum, but with a pseudonym?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 13, 2006, 04:31:01 PM
no we haven't
please allow me to introduce myself....
i am a beach boys fan from wayback.

i am sorry if i hd offended you, mn.
just feeling a little randy.
pleae dont let this message board become too PC.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 13, 2006, 04:48:09 PM
Buggarshitbum.  There, completely un-PC.

No offence mate, you just left me more confused than anything...  Randy is good, when called for.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 13, 2006, 05:09:54 PM
really, what is your avatar? it provokes many a thought in me

Smiley Smile and Wild honey are Brian & Dennis....there.

i have no avatar, minataur, nor cyclops either


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 12:48:50 PM
i just think it sounds bad, we could talk about what it meant or this and that for hours, i just think it doesnt sound good when you first listen to it, if you werent a beach boys fan and just heard the album. like, if you didnt know a musical genius and a great group of guys were behind this, you might want to call it crap.  but then again i might alos hate it more cause it is the twisted version of smile to me and it is a reminder of smile not being released and all that goes along with it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 12:50:57 PM
Yeah, we know. Tell us what you DO like.
I've turned more people on to the BB's through SMiLEY than any other LP, including PS and SMiLE. And that's a fact, Jack.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on February 14, 2006, 12:51:47 PM
That just means you know cool people, Ian.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 12:52:55 PM
why am i supposed to say what i do like on the smiley thread


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 12:53:54 PM
How about posting in SOME OTHER threads, instead of spouting the same boring garbage to people who don't agree with you?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 12:54:40 PM
i like games that two can play


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 12:55:27 PM
hahah sorry


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 14, 2006, 12:56:11 PM
Games Two Can Play you like more than Smiley?

Excuse me, but....


































 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 12:58:33 PM
i like games that two can play


Me too!

Let's talk about that groovy tune in the GV box thread.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 02:31:15 PM
do u got  a band or anything jason or ian?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 14, 2006, 02:38:20 PM
They're a singing duo.

You might know them by their real names,

Simon & Garfunkel.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 02:39:58 PM
simon and garfield? never heard of em


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason Penick on February 14, 2006, 02:49:09 PM
Wow, how did I manage to miss out on a 28 page thread on Smiley Smile?

5 stars, easy.  Simply the most uniquely beautiful musical work I've ever encountered.  How so much soul got packed into just over 20 minutes is beyond me.  Nobody could ever hope to replicate this, though many have tried.

I don't believe Brian wanted "Good Vibrations" to be on Smiley, and it doesn't fit the vibe at all, but dammit it's hard to argue against the inclusion of one of the greatest singles of all time.

"Little Pad" might be the most gorgeous thing ever recorded by anybody.  Those humming voices are the sound of Brian checking out to lunch and never coming back.

Dig the way they effortlessly trade lead vocals on part one of "She's Going Bald".  Vocally, this is the most incredible album I've ever heard.

The glitches in the audio only add to the overall character of the record, and the way they recorded it in a modular fashion was so cutting edge as to be revolutionary.

I will discuss any aspect of this album with anybody at any time!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 02:50:26 PM
You're just the man we need, Jason.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason Penick on February 14, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Glad to be of service.  Viva la Smiley Smile revolution!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 14, 2006, 03:01:26 PM
  Nobody could ever hope to replicate this, though many have tried.


This is so true. How many bands/independant songwriters have tried to take the Smiley route with their songs. They come off as very forced, not genuine at all. Smiley Smile may be the only album that could pull off such a sound with such style and grace enough for hundreds to follow at home. I doubt there will ever be an album like this again in the future history of pop music.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 03:03:33 PM
this album takes longer to listen to than it did to make it


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 14, 2006, 03:05:58 PM
this album takes longer to listen to than it did to make it

I bet none of us on this board could replicate a single one of those songs with as much feeling as the BBoys put into them.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 03:13:46 PM
lets hope that isnt true, and i mean that in a good way.  if in my entire life i cant make something as good as say the worst part of smiley smile, then that sucks. and it sucks for all of you too if you guys cant create something better than whats on this, and are u seriously saying this album is better than pet sounds? i dont think anyone would agree with that except 5 or 6 people.  if we have to have an arguement on pet sounds vs smiley smile, thats just sad. its you not me whos missing something when they listen to these albums


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 03:23:01 PM
Without a doubt the most boring poster that should be banned ever.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 03:24:39 PM
why exactly would i have to be banned? cause im boring? you really dont like when someone has a different opinion than you do you?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 03:29:15 PM
NO YOU DON'T, YOU STUPID MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL YOU'VE BEEN DOING IS TELLING US WE'RE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE LOVE THE ALBUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOTHING YOU SAY IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UNDERSTAND, JERKOFF???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 03:30:54 PM
i understand, you dont have to get like that. believe me you are pissing me off just as much as i seem to be pissing you off. take some comfort in that.
but at least we seem to probably agree that the beach boys rule


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 03:32:29 PM
this album is like a bad episode of aqua teen hunger force


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 14, 2006, 03:41:02 PM
We can't turn believers into non-believers, but it sure is fun listening to these dumb insults over and over.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 03:44:09 PM
We can't turn believers into non-believers, but it sure is fun listening to these dumb insults over and over.

You're insulting yourself with every post, d*ckhead.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 14, 2006, 03:55:48 PM
bahahaha


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 03:57:17 PM
Exactly my reaction when I followed the link in your signature.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 04:00:40 PM
this is what i dont get though, why would someone who loves smile, loves pet sounds, and is really familar with the entire catalogue be a d*ckhead for not liking this. i dont even know if you suck or anything, i just cant believe you like this album, do you make your own music at all? i wouldnt mind hearing it if you do, and not so i can trash it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 14, 2006, 04:02:33 PM
Oooo a sad attempt at a low blow


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 04:03:40 PM
Oooo a sad attempt at a low blow

Yeah, I thought your music was a sad attempt and it blew, too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 04:05:07 PM
link up your music


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 14, 2006, 04:07:18 PM
“Neither cast ye your pearls before swine.”


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 14, 2006, 04:11:38 PM
hahaha, are you for real man? link up something you been a part of, none of us are recording in major studios or studios at all so who cares, im actually interested in what the music you would make sounds like.  im not gonna hold you to the same standards i hold the beach boys, so im not gonna trash your songs if they dont have the best quality or were recorded with bad equiptment.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 04:33:39 PM
Quote
are u seriously saying this album is better than pet sounds?

That's the reason I'm here.

Quote
i dont think anyone would agree with that except 5 or 6 people.

Glad to see you're getting the most out of high school.


Quote
if we have to have an arguement on pet sounds vs smiley smile, thats just sad

Better than talking about how Pet Sounds really started on side two of Today!...again, and again, and again...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 14, 2006, 04:40:52 PM
Better than talking about how Pet Sounds really started on side two of Today!...again, and again, and again...

Yeah, we all know Today! whips Pet Sounds anywho... and Smiley ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 04:43:39 PM
on & on u go dombedoodah


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 04:58:07 PM
Yeah, we all know Today! whips Pet Sounds anywho... and Smiley ;)

Not even close, Aussie.   :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 14, 2006, 04:59:24 PM
Let MI speak his mind, his signature makes him automatically the coolest person on the board. Even cooler than Ian. And that's hard to do.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 05:03:34 PM
Let MI speak his mind

I am.  When have I stopped him from talking on this site?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 14, 2006, 05:06:20 PM
Never. But I don't want Mr. Idyll to be discouraged by the rampant disagreement others have with him.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 05:07:57 PM
I missed this.  Who was disagreeing with him, and where?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 14, 2006, 05:08:32 PM
Remember when he posted his less-than-glowing review of Pet Sounds? He was jumped on.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 05:14:32 PM
In the Pet Sounds thread?  Other people got jumped on as much as him.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 05:37:49 PM
pet sounds and smiley smile are Brian and the boys starting to seperate spiritually...

i dont think they came back until Sunflower, then not again, til 15Bigones, inmho...
then after brian is back-- '85, then never....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 05:41:24 PM
Even Friends?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 05:44:05 PM
that wa in my outlook, a fractured group endeavour. Mike & the maharishi's

I LOVE MY FRIENDS, chris
meant 4u


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 14, 2006, 05:49:17 PM
Matt & Mike

Are you brothers?

Anyway, I listened to whichever one of you had the High Fives music and it wasn't bad at all. I prefer the Hawaii song to the other two, and the Lego one wasn't my sort of thing at all.

No Smiley Smile though....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 14, 2006, 05:54:57 PM
that wa in my outlook, a fractured group endeavour. Mike & the maharishi's

I LOVE MY FRIENDS, chris
meant 4u

I'm sure you do, I just meant: do you really think Brian and the group were that separated, which you kind of answered now anyway.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 06:03:47 PM
i will tell you this man, no eternal reward will forgive us for wasting the dawn....

and, it was Brian testing out his new home studio w/ the boys. i wish i heard more from Bruce on this one.

Smiley Smile 2 the bright side!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 14, 2006, 06:09:03 PM


and, it was Brian testing out his new home studio w/ the boys.


Interesting.

Could Smiley Smile have been achieved to the full extent we know it as in a professional studio?

Booking time, set in stone hours, etc...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 06:53:43 PM
a good tangent heroes...i'm pondering, maybe Brian started to believe his own hype and maybe putting the studio in was a way to cutdown all the hangers on...forgive me vandyke parks....

no calls from korthoff,parks or grillo!!!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 14, 2006, 07:00:11 PM
I'm always three pages behind in this thread; I have responses to things that were 20 posts ago and are now irrelevant..

Leave some time for the people that have a life, geeze!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 14, 2006, 07:02:23 PM
well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse us!!!

haha


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 14, 2006, 09:14:12 PM
Quote
Matt & Mike

Are you brothers?

Anyway, I listened to whichever one of you had the High Fives music and it wasn't bad at all. I prefer the Hawaii song to the other two, and the Lego one wasn't my sort of thing at all.

No, we're friends and thanks for checking out the music.


Title: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Daniel S. on February 16, 2006, 08:49:09 PM
Who came up with the song order on Smiley Smile? Did the boys do it together? Is there any reason why one song would come before another one?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: runalot on February 16, 2006, 09:39:00 PM
Not only that, but whose idea was it to call it "Smiley Smile"? Why not a totally new name?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 01:23:53 AM
Because it was a distorted, deconstructed and melted SMiLE. Truth in advertising.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Bicyclerider on February 17, 2006, 06:54:43 AM
Barry Turnbull, a cousin of Brian's?  (Peter Reum I think answered this question as to who Barry was) named the album.  don't know the circumstances of how he named it or why, however - perhaps Peter could.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 17, 2006, 08:07:01 AM
Ian kind of sussed out Brian's little jokes with album sequencing for us.

Wind Chimes - Gettin' Hungry

ITBOMM - Bull Sessions

etc

So I imagine Brian had the final word on the sequencing of Smiley Smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 08:08:17 AM
Brian was the one IN CONTROL of Smiley Smile, why wouldn't he have the final say on the album? The other band had nothing to do with the production. The session tapes are evidence of this.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rocker on February 17, 2006, 08:13:06 AM
Brian was the one IN CONTROL of Smiley Smile, why wouldn't he have the final say on the album? The other band had nothing to do with the production. The session tapes are evidence of this.

He might have been in control, but he didn't want to have "Good Vibrations" on it . So he had not TOTAL control if that's really true....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 08:14:22 AM
But he eventually allowed it on there, didn't he? Brian trying to please everyone.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rocker on February 17, 2006, 08:17:29 AM
I don't know if he allowed. But when he tries to please them with that, why shouldn't he also please them with other parts of the album?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 08:18:21 AM
I don't get what you mean, can you please elaborate?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on February 17, 2006, 08:23:50 AM
“Smiley Smile” puts forth the idea that the album was even more fun that Smile, which surely it is not. But wouldn’t the band or one of Brian’s friends or associates stop him and say, “you know Brian, I think the Smile stuff was cooler that this.”
Maybe they were still thinking Brian knew what he was doing.

I like to think we can get an idea of Smiles lineup based on Smiley. Maybe Wonderful would have appeared late in the album.

GV was the hit single and needed to be included. The record label wouldn't have let that one slip by.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 08:26:39 AM
Well that brings up an interesting point. The Smiley Smile sessions were actually considered to be Smile sessions. I see Smiley Smile as the natural evolution of Smile in Brian's mind. Minimalistic and harsh.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rocker on February 17, 2006, 08:28:02 AM
I don't get what you mean, can you please elaborate?

Well, I mean you said that Brian tried to please everybody with putting "vibes" on SS. So, how do you know that he didn't do the same with other parts of that album ,e.g. the sequence? So he was probably not in control, at least not in that way....

@ Bubba Ho-Tep :
I think Brian knew exactly what he was doing with SS


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on February 17, 2006, 09:02:20 AM
Well that brings up an interesting point. The Smiley Smile sessions were actually considered to be Smile sessions. I see Smiley Smile as the natural evolution of Smile in Brian's mind. Minimalistic and harsh.

Which doesn't say much for Brian's mind.

Why bother with Surf's Up when you have Gettin Hungry?



Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 09:03:11 AM
Well it's no secret that Brian's mind during the Smiley Smile period was the equivalent of a pile of bricks. He obviously thought Smiley Smile was the sound he was looking for. Who are we to disagree?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Daniel S. on February 17, 2006, 09:39:53 AM
The name Smiley Smile.
Because it was a distorted, deconstructed and melted SMiLE. Truth in advertising.



Yeah, but whose idea was it?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on February 17, 2006, 09:50:59 AM
yeah, well I think you're the same guy.  pathetic.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Roger Ryan on February 17, 2006, 09:51:10 AM
Carl has said that "Wild Honey" was an album for Brian to cool out to, but I think "Smiley Smile" suits that purpose as well. After completing the "Heroes & Villains" single (that had to happen, right?), Brian avoided anything heavy or complicated. He was still looking for an upbeat, happy follow-up to the preceived downer of "Pet Sounds", but it also had to be psychedelic to compete with everything else going on in '67. The result was "Smiley Smile". The fact that the album ended up sounding darker and more depressing than "Pet Sounds" is probably an inadvertent side effect of Brian's mental state. I'm certain Brian thought SS was the kind of humorous, fun album that would be appropriate for the Beach Boys; the opposite of "SMiLE" which he believed was too complicated, heavy and ego-driven to release (or complete).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Chris D. on February 17, 2006, 09:54:06 AM
“Smiley Smile” puts forth the idea that the album was even more fun that Smile, which surely it is not.

It's supposed to imply insincerity.  It's not a real smile, it's a smiley smile.  It's like a smile, but it's not.  Just like the album.

Quote
Because it was a distorted, deconstructed and melted SMiLE. Truth in advertising.

Yes.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 10:08:35 AM
Quote
It's supposed to imply insincerity.  It's not a real smile, it's a smiley smile.  It's like a smile, but it's not.  Just like the album.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 17, 2006, 12:55:47 PM
They have the same personality and writing style, but it's probably just because they're both morons.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 01:51:55 PM
Tell me, why the HELL would I do something like that? What would I benefit from by posting as two people? The people on this board almost ruin the beach boys for me. To know there are morons out there that like such an amazing songwriter/band as Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys really disheartens me. Maybe it seems like me and matt have a similar personality because we're actually friends in real life and discuss the Beach Boys in face to face conversation. Unlike you nerds who wish you had real friends, so you post on tons of forums like this one so you can simulate human interaction.  You people are sad.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:01:52 PM
Quote
The people on this board almost ruin the beach boys for me.

What a drag. Better go back to your aerobics workout to the music of Loverboy with Matt. COOL people like Loverboy and aerobics.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:10:45 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Stop resorting to childish insults, it's not so good of a tactic when all you can come up with are stupid gay jokes over and over. Really, what is your problem? I came on here to express my dislike for smiley smile, and all I get are retarded insults from you and your equally un-intelligent allies on this forum. You people take all the fun out of the beach boys. You're the same on every forum.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 02:11:50 PM
Well at least we have them typing in sentences for once.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:13:58 PM
Quote
I came on here to express my dislike for smiley smile

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason you came on was to express negativity.
So that's what you get back!
See how that works?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:16:43 PM
When have I not spoken in sentences? "Them"? It's just ME my name is MIKE i'm not the same FCKING person as matt.

Quote
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason you came on was to express negativity.
So that's what you get back!
See how that works?

You people clearly don't know how to debate due to your lack of human interaction. When someone expresses they're opinion and it's negative to you, you should question them like an adult rather than resorting to dumb insults.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:18:29 PM
Has anyone ever heard the word "decency"?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 17, 2006, 02:20:04 PM
When have I not spoken in sentences? "Them"? It's just ME my name is MIKE i'm not the same FCKING person as matt.

Quote
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason you came on was to express negativity.
So that's what you get back!
See how that works?

You people clearly don't know how to debate due to your lack of human interaction. When someone expresses they're opinion and it's negative to you, you should question them like an adult rather than resorting to dumb insults.

You never debated.  You only said people who liked Smiley were stupid.

If you think no one noticed the leap in your spelling skills, you're the idiot.  Before today you made theeponymuseudonym look like fucking Thomas Jefferson.  But I'm sure you're him, too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 17, 2006, 02:21:58 PM
Someone needs to get Charles to do some spring-cleaning on this thread. It's become one big argument, who wants to read that? That's really pathetic, on the parts of everyone who dared feed the trolls (myself included).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:22:43 PM
Mike, you have just gotten back what you gave.
Decency is NOT telling people they are wrong and crazy for liking an album. That's what you came on here to do.
You stated your opinions bullishly and stupidly.
You have not been decent or smart ONCE in this thread.
Therefore you get indecency and stupidity back.

You want a serious discussion? OK. here's a question:
One of the coolest guys here is Andreas. He can't stand SMiLEY. No one takes issue with that.
Why do you think that is, Mike?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:23:13 PM
HAHAHAHA. No all I said was I can't comprehend why people like this album. You people can think all you want. I am one person, and only have one username on this board. I actually have a life, so I don't have time to post as 30 different people.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:27:11 PM
Quote
Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

That was my original post. I never called anyone stupid for liking smiley smile. I was automatically labeled a "troll" and you went with it, and any insults I dished out were in my defense. You are the trolls who are against free speech.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:30:56 PM
No, I'm against people who come on a message board solely to spread negativity.
Foda you and the skateboard you rode in on.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:36:05 PM
Damnit man, my objective was not to spread negativity. There always needs to be two sides of the coin. I don't know why you don't get it. They balance each other out.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:36:38 PM
Haven't you learned anything from Clockwork Orange?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:40:34 PM
How not to adapt a great piece of literature into a godawful and pretentious bit of overrated garbage that should only be cut up for use as ukelele picks?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 02:42:45 PM
Well we disagree on something else too then. The book is great, and the movie is just as great and I bet you were pissed cause they left out the last chapter in the movie.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:45:37 PM
Partly that. I just don't like Kubrick's snide and condescending tone and unoriginal visual sense in all his work after 2001.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 02:46:47 PM
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stop it, you are pretentious man. STOP IT. WHAT MOVIE HAVE U MADE WHAT MUSIC HAVE YOU MADE?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 17, 2006, 02:47:35 PM
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stop it, you are pretentious man. STOP IT. WHAT MOVIE HAVE U MADE WHAT MUSIC HAVE YOU MADE?

What have you done to say something's good?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 02:48:48 PM
im not ripping apart things that are clearly great and beyond anything i could do.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris D. on February 17, 2006, 02:50:56 PM
It's easy to like things because other people do, isn't it?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:52:43 PM
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stop it, you are pretentious man. STOP IT. WHAT MOVIE HAVE U MADE WHAT MUSIC HAVE YOU MADE?

Plenty. I can criticise film because I have properly studied it.
You are ripping apart things that are clearly great.
And for saying that people are crazy for liking SMiLEY, I would only like you to say it to me in person.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 02:53:30 PM
yeah i like the beach boys cause everyone i went to school with loved them let me tell ya.  clockwork orange? yeah i didnt watch that on tv when i was like 13. if anything, im guilty of not liking things other people like.  


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 02:54:25 PM
i would say it your face in a second an anything else i would want to say, i dont fear any violence or debate


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 02:55:58 PM
You wouldn't have the time.
Stop being queer for this thread and create some threads about what you do like.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 17, 2006, 03:14:43 PM
Mike & Matt,

Try posting about an album you do like, in its appropriate place. You'll find your thoughts will be well taken and everyone will have a fine time. The major problem everyone here has with you is that you've not yet made any worthwhile posts. All it seems you've done is come on here to insult the people who enjoy this album. I know that's not actually what you came here for, but since you're both such great fans try posting about something you like about the BBoys.

And since when is a person a "nerd" for being part of a message board? Perhaps there aren't 600+ people in each of our immediate locations, of whom we can discuss such things with. I sure know that there's not a single person in my school who I could have a conversation with about the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 17, 2006, 03:26:20 PM
Actually I see you're starting to spread out to the rest of the board.

It's not as bad as you think here, you'll gel right in soon.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 03:29:05 PM
im fine with that, this is just crazy anyways.  i guess we all get a little touchy with the beach boys. its actually kinda funny, and h&v we are all nerds for posting on this board. i can accept that, i read lord of the rings too.  they have message boards just like this, and they have people who know all the stupid sh*t thats on every page and the most random obscure facts about stuff that doesnt matter, and i love that. its a great escape, as are the beach boys, you can get lost listening to all the albums.  i think the funniest part of fighting on this board about the music is the fact that since we are here you can pretty much bet that we like this band alot more than most people. this is really just a big fight about who "gets it" gets which album, smile, smiley smile, pet sounds whatever.
and to the part about postin on stuff i do like, i havent cause i feel like if i said anything that most likely been posted already and just get trashed for it


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 03:33:52 PM
Quote
i havent cause i feel like if i said anything that most likely been posted already and just get trashed for it
 

You won't. Try it.
But PLEASE capitalise your sentences and use punctuation.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: matt 1234 on February 17, 2006, 03:39:59 PM
I will try.  Proper puncuation and spelling isnt important to me, when i see things written wrong or spelled wrong i just correct it while reading. To me its the point thats being made, not the pen writing it.  But i can understand how its annoying, sorry


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 03:41:07 PM
No problem. Good luck to you on the board.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 17, 2006, 03:46:07 PM
Good Vibrations

The Pocket Symphony

As I type i'm listening to an orchestra do this song. While it seems none of them really know the song to the exact detail and feel, (some parts seem a bit off as someone not so familar would fall trap to playing) it is still an amazing sound. I really can't think of another single which tops this from any year, ever. Even if you listen to Todd Rundgren's cover of GV and the Beatles' Rain and Strawberry Fields Forever, it's clear which song blows the other two right out of the water. Great song. Amazing recording.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 03:47:55 PM
Imagine flipping it over and hearing Let's Go Away for Awhile.
Nice post, totally agree.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: RobtheNobleSurfer on February 17, 2006, 04:28:33 PM
Or more like a smile to hide the anger.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: RobtheNobleSurfer on February 17, 2006, 04:44:06 PM
Quote
I came on here to express my dislike for smiley smile

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason you came on was to express negativity.
So that's what you get back!
See how that works?

The smile you send out returns to you" - Indian Wisom


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: RobtheNobleSurfer on February 17, 2006, 04:49:07 PM
I'm listening to the sessions of Smiley.

The finished Smiley is in my Top 5 BB albums simply because it is so unlike anything in their catalogue. So weird. So strange, yet so alluring at the same time. The darker tone that drive these versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes, for example seem almost passive agressive. The "forced" or "angry" smile, if you will.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on February 17, 2006, 04:55:30 PM
I came on here to express my dislike for smiley smile, and all I get are retarded insults from you and your equally un-intelligent allies on this forum. You people take all the fun out of the beach boys.
What an amusing debate!  I've resisted the temptation to comment, but this logic is startlingly hilarious:  I came on here to express my dislike for smiley smile [but] you people take all the fun out of the beach boys.

Now think about that for a moment, please...

Are you ready for the results?

Here they are:

You are stupid

Follow H&V's advice and try posting something positive (even though it won't be fun according to your logic).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 05:17:26 PM
You just twisted my quote around to serve your purpose. I could start a bunch of threads about positive things, but if I did you assholes would say it was "boring" or something and just put me down. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 05:48:43 PM
Quote
if I did you assholes would say it was "boring" or something and just put me down. 

Nope. Try it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 17, 2006, 07:27:59 PM
Damnit man, my objective was not to spread negativity. There always needs to be two sides of the coin. I don't know why you don't get it. They balance each other out.

Following that logic, I have some suggestions....

Find a Charlie Chaplin board and tell everyone there that movies need a soundtrack to be worthy of consideration.
Find a board devoted to film noir and make an argument for colorizing movies.
Find a Star Wars board and tell them that Lucas can burn the negatives to the original trilogy and no one should dispute that authority.
Find an Elvis board and tell them that he stole his Vegas act from Tom Jones.

All of these are opinions that people have spoken.  I have heard them all expressed.  I totally disagree with all of them and to be honest consider them to be very ignorant.  I can handle it when people offer those ignorant opinions in the "real world", as they don't know any better.  But in my own world, I would hope that people know better.  I would get very angry if someone offered up opinions like these just to "balance" out things.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion.  But you are WWAAAYYYY out of line to impose your aesthetic judgment as an absolute upon a board that by its very name holds up the album you ridicule as a great album.

Try this exercise.  Since most of us weren't around or were too young 40 years ago, this should be easy -- take Smile totally out of the picture.  Imagine the Beach Boys the way the rest of the world does -- as surfing goody two shoes.  Think of just the hits.  Then in THAT context play Smiley Smile, not as a Smile substitute, but as just another BB album.  Listen to it then, and see if it doesn't sound different.  The melodies are consistently a huge cut above most other 1967 music, the arrangements are too creative to have been thrown together at random haphazrd, and the vibe is an eerie mesmerizing groove.  I have never been high or stoned, but listening to Smiley, I don't think I need to -- that album alone can alter consciousness.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 07:52:18 PM
But look at this side of the argument. In 1966 The Beach Boys came out with Pet Sounds and although not everyone "got it" the people who did get it were blown away. Now, if you were one of the people who were totally blown away by the brilliance and grandeur of pet sounds you would be thinking "This guy can do anything he's gonna blow the music world away with whatever he does next". And then you wait and you wait, you hear the smile rumors and are expecting something so brilliant, but all you get is the simple smiley smile. In my opinion there was no evolution from Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile, it was Brian de-evolving, because of his fractured ego. And the only point I wanted to get across on this board was that I think Smile was the right successor to Pet Sounds. It was a step in a new direction, but he stayed on the same level of brilliance. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 17, 2006, 08:14:03 PM
Mike, that's the only argument that was said for almost 30 years!  Smiley was consistently slammed, mostly by those who lived through that time, for just the reasons you give.  If people keep trumpeting the same lines fed them by Rolling Stone in the 60's, you will find...

-- The Monkees were pure bubblegum with nothing interesting of lasting value
-- The Stones' Satanic Majesties was a horrible mistake
-- Sgt. Pepper is the greatest album ever
-- the Beach Boys were irrelevant in everything they did after Good Vibrations.

It's not 1967, and all of the rhetoric is long gone.  None of these opinions are universal anymore; in fact, I think the opposite of all of them -- Majesties is one of the best Stones, the BB's best music was 1966-1973, the Monkees are one of the best acts of the 60's, and Pepper is vastly overrated.  Or take this: people slammed on Ram by Macca because it wasn't lyrically profound, as if he were morally required to trumpet counterculture values with every release to be worthy of consideration.  In 2006, no one really cares much about that.  Now people hear Ram and think, wow, what a great album!  The same thing is happening with Smiley.  It's OK if you don't like it, but if you start telling others how it SHOULD be, no one will take you seriously.

For example, all of this posturing misses what I REALLY like.  My Beach Boy fandom was average until I heard Sunflower.  That album made me a Beach Boys fanatic.  It totally blew me out of the water and rocked my world.  It still does.  I can't imagine another BB album better for me.  And that includes Pet Sounds.  Critically, I can see that Pet Sounds is great and I totally get why people rate it so high.  But it is not the one I reach for the most -- that would be Sunflower.  I think it is a better Beach Boys album in that it is truly the Beach Boys, and not Brian and his singers (which IMO is a valid critique of PS -- it is a Brian Wilson album with guest BB vocals).  But do you hear me telling the Pet Sounds fans that they should prefer Sunflower?  Or that Sunflower is the greatest album ever? (OK, you may hear me say that... ;D)

Taste and preference are great to talk.  The moment it becomes forced upon someone, the joy is gone.  I can't force Ian Wagner to admit that Abbey Road is the greatest album by the Beatles, he can't force me to like the Velvet Underground, but we are still very friendly with each other (and FWIW share a LOT of our tastes).  When we disagree, we joke around a bit.  Make dumb comments.  But we don't get ticked.  I have seen Ian disagree with lots of people without acting this way.  That should say something -- your valid opinion is getting missed by your delivery.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 08:37:12 PM
Great stuff, Jeff, thanks for stating my feelings so much better and peaceably.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 08:56:09 PM
Well first of all I was the one insulted first. I insulted the album not anyones opinions. Everyone took it to heart. I guess a lot of people can't get past the first impression.

I form my own opinions before I read other peoples opinions. The first Beach Boy music I heard besides the early stuff was Smile, and I was just totally blown away, and then I read about Smile and got really into the Beach Boys. And after hearing smiley smile my opinion was pretty much the same as the "universal opinion". I happen to think what they said was correct(in my mind). I can see past bullshit rhetoric dude. I agree that Sunflower is in the same league as pet sounds (I still like pet sounds a little better). I think the rolling stones suck. Like a rolling stone, and I can't get no satisfaction are clearly not the greatest songs ever.

I would have no problem with smiley smile if Smile was released. I just think Smile was sacrificed for smiley smile and I'm not cool with that.
 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 17, 2006, 08:59:24 PM
(opening a kettle of worms....)

So what was your opinion of Smile 2004?  And did you see the tour?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:04:42 PM
Edit: What I meant to say was I insulted the album smiley smile and not anyone personally.

I think Smile 04 is just okay. I don't like some of the production aspects( too much digital samples of harpsichords etc..) and Brians voice sounds protooled and is obviously not what it used to be. I prefer to listen to the unreleased 66-67 material of smile. And yes, I did see the tour it was pretty sweet to see him in the flesh performing smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 09:06:11 PM
Read the beginning of Jeff's first post again, Mike.
You don't seem to be understanding our point.
In an online community, you need to not make a negative first impression.
It's the SMILEY SMILE board!
Would you go on the Pinkerton board and say Pinkerton sucks?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: b.dfzo on February 17, 2006, 09:06:40 PM
Protooled?  I think, of any of his album, BWPS showcases Brian's most pure vocal performance, to these ears. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:10:37 PM
Okay well I'll say Brian gave it his absolute best shot at the vocals for Smile. His voice is just not even close to what he could once do with it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:12:37 PM
Well, tough! I have 5 or 6 friends who are into the beach boys and evey one of them doesn't like smiley smile at all. So I never even knew there were people out there that liked smiley smile. Sorry!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 09:15:49 PM
Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard!  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:18:41 PM
sweet


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: b.dfzo on February 17, 2006, 09:20:32 PM
His voice is just not even close to what he could once do with it.

Hate to say you're just preaching to the choir, Mike.  That's been been apparent for about the past 30 years.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:24:36 PM
haha, just making sure.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 17, 2006, 09:25:44 PM
Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard!  ;D

King of Anglia take two, perhaps....?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: b.dfzo on February 17, 2006, 09:28:26 PM
I just noticed in my previous post, I said 'been' twice.  But, you know what?  That's not a mistake - it's just double the freshness!  I'm going to start deliberately typing words twice for extra extra added emphasis.  Is that cool cool?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 10:04:14 PM
Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard!  ;D

King of Anglia take two, perhaps....?

Hope so!!!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason Penick on February 18, 2006, 01:08:49 AM
I don't have much to add here, except that the sequencing on that album is genius.

Key moment:  "Whispering Winds" outro into the blaring Baldwinisms of "Gettin' Hungry".  Can you say, "dynamic tension"?  (And if you do say it, best to use your top Pete Townshend impression.  ;D)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 02:40:47 AM
John Entwistle!


 ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: jazzfascist on February 18, 2006, 05:42:06 AM
Brian was the one IN CONTROL of Smiley Smile, why wouldn't he have the final say on the album? The other band had nothing to do with the production. The session tapes are evidence of this.

I don't think you can take session tapes as final evidence of this, they are kind of aural snapshots of the sessions and don't tell the whole story. According to Keith Badman Brian was only sporadically in control and Carl is quoted as saying: "We'd just let the tape machines roll. We'd just make up stuff and just do it. There wasn't any real effort into that album. It was very simple. It was more like a jam album" (pp. 188). So it sounds like SS was very underproduced and also like it was more or less a collective effort. The producer credit on the album also bears that out.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Old Rake on February 18, 2006, 06:41:41 AM
Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

If people are surprised Brian is in charge of this album, has NOBODY heard "Beach Boys Party" or "HELP Is On The Way" or the Fairy Tale or "Love You?" Or the "Lei'd In Hawaii" concerts or the aborted sessions for the re-done fake live album? Or even the chanting sessions with the Vosse Posse while the Beach Boys were away? The "loose, off the cuff, funny" Brian is just one of several Brians that occasionally surface creatively -- the meticulous craftsman is the other main one. "Smiley Smile" was indeed a logical extension of that creative thread he started back on "Party."

People always think "Party" was just a throwaway between REAL Beach Boys albums. I've always thought it represented a new mode of creation for the big guy -- in which he figured out that he LIKED tossing stuff off like that. I don't think its a throwaway at all, it represents the beginning of one of the threads which you can trace through his entire career. "Smiley" is just one stopping off point.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 06:55:44 AM
Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 07:28:29 AM
Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Um...not really.  Carl, Al and Dennis were there playing guitar, bass and percussion on many of those tracks.  Brian pretty much just did the organ and piano (and maybe harmonica). 

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 07:31:37 AM
Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be?

There are also some tapes from those sessions where the other guys were in the control booth producing, while Brian was out in front of the mic.  Not that the overall concept wasn't Brian's...but he WAS allowing the others to "help" out on production a bit more with that album.

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 18, 2006, 07:42:03 AM
Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Um...not really.  Carl, Al and Dennis were there playing guitar, bass and percussion on many of those tracks.  Brian pretty much just did the organ and piano (and maybe harmonica). 

C-Man

Which for most tracks is all that there is.  But you make one major omission -- that is Brian's bass on Vegetables.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 08:13:21 AM
Yeah, leaving H&V and GV out of consideration, and not minding percussion you have:

Vegetables:  Brian on Bass, could be anybody on "pitcher".

Fall Breaks:  Organ dominated, I'd guess Brian on Melodica too.

She's Goin' Bald:  Just Organ, really.  Could be anybody on Bongos.  Piano.

Little Pad:  Brian at piano, presumably Chuck Berghoffer is on there somewhere, and per Brian, Al Vescovo.  Carl on Uke?

With me tonight:  Organ, bass drum could be anybody.

Wind Chimes:  Organ, anybody could be on percussion, Carl presumably on the minimal guitar.

Gettin' Hungry:  Organ, sounds like Brian on Bass to me, guitars, maybe finally both Al and Carl?

Wonderful:  Organ, some piano.  All Brian.

Whistle In:  Piano, hard to tell who is on bass.  Sounds like whoever it is that plays a lot on Wild Honey and Friends.  But it could be anybody really.

Seems like Brian played about everything to me.  I really don't think Al or Dennis had a lot to do, other than sing.





Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 08:14:27 AM

Which for most tracks is all that there is.  But you make one major omission -- that is Brian's bass on Vegetables.

Correct you are.  And that was done at Western (I think), as opposed to the home studio.
By the way...anyone else think it weird that there are so many songs on "SS" that start with the
letter "W" ?  Were the Wilsons trying to tell us something about how cool that letter is?

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: jazzfascist on February 18, 2006, 08:20:01 AM
Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

I just don't think that you can take the tapes as some final evidence, especially since you don't have tapes of every single session, that was done, you have to piecemeal your understanding of what happened together, by using the various available sources and weigh it against each other. Just because Brian doesn't cry into the microphone and it sounds like he was in control, doesn't mean he actually was in control and Carl's statements tells another story, as does the production credit. As c-man points out you can also hear the others producing in the booth. Brian was probably still the man when it was about getting things down on tape, but if you take Carls statement seriously, it also seems that now the artistic direction also came from the others in the group. Also the album doesn't sound like it was a sharply conceived minimalist album, but rather as something that doesn't go too deep and was loosely jammed together.

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS. Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Well he didn't play everything and SS is also almost an acapella album, so the rest of the group was very responsible for that part, also by that logic would you say that Hal Blaine and the rest of the Wrecking Crew were in control of those albums, where they did most of the instrumental work.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 08:22:52 AM

Little Pad:  Brian at piano, presumably Chuck Berghoffer is on there somewhere, and per Brian, Al Vescovo.  Carl on Uke?

Gettin' Hungry:  Organ, sounds like Brian on Bass to me, guitars, maybe finally both Al and Carl?

Whistle In:  Piano, hard to tell who is on bass.  Sounds like whoever it is that plays a lot on Wild Honey and Friends.  But it could be anybody really.

Seems like Brian played about everything to me.  I really don't think Al or Dennis had a lot to do, other than sing.

Really?  Brian said Al Vescovo is on "Little Pad"?  When and where was that?  BTW, Vescovo's not on the AFM sheet.  Neither is Berghoffer.
To me, the electric bass on "Gettin' Hungry" sounds like it's played with a pick...therefore probably not Brian.   More likely Al Jardine IMO.
For "Whistle In", the AFM sheet lists only Brian and Carl (and engineer James Lockert and contractor Diane Rovell), so I'm thinking Brian on piano, Carl on bass.

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 08:51:06 AM
Like a rolling stone, and I can't get no satisfaction are clearly not the greatest songs ever.



Two different artists there....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:03:12 AM
Quote
Brian said Al Vescovo is on "Little Pad"?  When and where was that? 

Damned if I remember.  I should have saved it.  It was a fairly contemperaneous interview, I think, where the interviewer asked Brian to talk about Smiley Smile a little bit.  I'll dig around to see if I can find the reference - however, Brian may very well have been confusing Little Pad with Diamond Head.

There are sessions for "hawaiian song" on several days, I was under the impression according to Badman that Berghoffer was present at the July 21 session.  Not that I can really hear any String Bass on Little Pad.

Quote
For "Whistle In", the AFM sheet lists only Brian and Carl (and engineer James Lockert and contractor Diane Rovell), so I'm thinking Brian on piano, Carl on bass.

That would certainly make sense...I just feel a little more panache in the little descending lines than I'm familiar with Carl having on bass.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 18, 2006, 09:25:47 AM
That was an interview from the earlier part of the 90's, where I can verify without any doubt that Brian DID credit Al Vescovo with playing lap steel on "Little Pad". The whole interview was posted once on this board a few years ago, so it probably still exists in full somewhere. Brian says a few lines about various Smiley tracks, nothing shocking - but interesting since he rarely talked about Smiley Smile's tracks. And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad? I don't understand that - give Brian at least some credit that he'd remember if Al Vescovo played steel guitar on Little Pad! ::).

I had the full interview but I lost it - all I have are a few random quotes.

Here's another quote from that interview that many folks seem to forget when discussing the origins and history of Fall Breaks:

FALL BREAKS...
BW:That was sort of a song about a cold winter scene. We tried to paint a picture of winter and then spring, but we called it fall. The idea was that it went to spring, late summer and then broke in the winter, We used the "Woody Woodpecker" theme because it was descriptive to us of spring and summer.




Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:30:33 AM
Quote
And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad?

Just considering all the angles.  The steel on Little Pad seems basic enough for one of the Boys to handle, plus no Al on the AFMs.  I tend to believe that Al was there, as to me the Steel seems nuanced enough to be a pro.  But you kind of have to remain eternally sceptical of all possibilities in the "session credits" line of "work."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 18, 2006, 09:42:33 AM
Quote
And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad?

Just considering all the angles.  The steel on Little Pad seems basic enough for one of the Boys to handle, plus no Al on the AFMs.  I tend to believe that Al was there, as to me the Steel seems nuanced enough to be a pro.  But you kind of have to remain eternally sceptical of all possibilities in the "session credits" line of "work."

Too many angles?  :)

Not to sound cheeky here, but I doubt the Boys could have tuned the steel guitar the proper way without asking someone, let alone have played such a smooth and as you said "nuanced" slide part that remained perfectly in tune. That's the real bear on that instrument - intonation.

On a related note, the octave-slide "Theremin" line on the song Wild Honey sounds simple enough that I could teach any non-musician how to play it on Mike's "Ribbon Controller" in 30 minutes. Yet, they called in Paul Tanner, the pro,  to do that part. Probably for similar reasons as they called Vescovo to play that steel on Little Pad. ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:44:38 AM
I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 18, 2006, 09:59:35 AM
I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong[/i].

 ;D :D :)

A brilliantly witty response - Cheers! Your sense of humor on these boards is second to none, I mean that seriously.



(This post puts me at 19, I think your count is close to 40.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 18, 2006, 10:37:55 AM
Who are the girls that sing "won..won..wonderful?" on the SSmiley verison?
this part always thru me. it's a little out of tune but not much...a very different arrangement


Was this more Carl than Brian's arrangements on Smiley?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 10:39:31 AM
Smiley's arrangements reek of Brian Wilson's hand. The organ-based arrangements was his idea.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 18, 2006, 10:59:03 AM
you answered half of my question, Doc.

who are the girls.....


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 11:00:50 AM
The wives.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 11:41:52 AM
Quote
Two different artists there....

Of course. I know that. I think rolling stone magazine picked those as the best songs of all time on two different polls.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on February 18, 2006, 11:48:30 AM
Are you sure it's girls and not a speeded up  or altered tape a la She's Going Bald?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason Penick on February 18, 2006, 12:10:33 PM
This has been nagging me for some time now, and I guess this is the right thread to address it.  There was an interview with Alan done around the time of Smiley recording, where he says something to the effect of "we recorded a song all in Hawaiian and it's the best thing we've ever done."  Can anybody site the date or provide the exact quote?  I used to assume he was talking about "Worms", but obviously that song had lyrics in English written for it.  Could he have been talking about "Hawaiian Song" (of which the beautiful wordless harmonies were later grafted onto "Little Pad"?)


Interesting progression from "Worms" >> "Little Pad" >> "Diamond Head".  Some of my very favorite stuff Brian has ever done. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rocker on February 18, 2006, 12:15:02 PM
This has been nagging me for some time now, and I guess this is the right thread to address it.  There was an interview with Alan done around the time of Smiley recording, where he says something to the effect of "we recorded a song all in Hawaiian and it's the best thing we've ever done."  Can anybody site the date or provide the exact quote?  I used to assume he was talking about "Worms", but obviously that song had lyrics in English written for it.  Could he have been talking about "Hawaiian Song" (of which the beautiful wordless harmonies were later grafted onto "Little Pad"?)


Interesting progression from "Worms" >> "Little Pad" >> "Diamond Head".  Some of my very favorite stuff Brian has ever done. 

I think those quotes are somewhere in the "discussion"-thread of Smiley Smile in the Review-Section of this board.

But what is "Hawaiian song"? Never heard about it. Was it recorded during Smile? Maybe someone could PM me some "infos" ?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on February 18, 2006, 12:17:53 PM
Quote
Two different artists there....

Of course. I know that. I think rolling stone magazine picked those as the best songs of all time on two different polls.
No, no, one's the best song of all time, the other one's the second best song of all time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 12:37:44 PM
[
Not to sound cheeky here, but I doubt the Boys could have tuned the steel guitar the proper way without asking someone, let alone have played such a smooth and as you said "nuanced" slide part that remained perfectly in tune. That's the real bear on that instrument - intonation.


Lennon burned it up on "For You Blue"!

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason Penick on February 18, 2006, 12:38:32 PM
But what is "Hawaiian song"? Never heard about it. Was it recorded during Smile? Maybe someone could PM me some "infos" ?


Recorded June 19-21, 1967 at Brian's home studio.  A section of this (I'm assuming the wordless stuff) was later added to "Little Pad", but the complete recording remains unheard.  Musicians include Al, Brian, Carl and Dennis.  As H mentioned, Charles Berghofer also was listed on the session on the 21st.


I'm gonna go hunt for some quotes now.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 18, 2006, 12:45:40 PM
I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong.

Aside from the one "Sloop" vocal session we know about, has anyone discovered other sessions Mr. Wong assisted on?

Itriguing subject, the whole "second engineer" (aka "assistant engineer", aka "tape operator").  
Although Abbey Road had 'em pretty much at the start of the Beatles' recording career, I'm guessing independents like Western and Gold Star didn't until later.  Listening to the Beach Boys' session tapes from the 3-track era, it seems that Chuck, for instance, is rolling and queing the tape himself.  Maybe they brought the tape ops in when they went to 4-track?  Does anyone know?  Also, according to the Preiss book, Phil Kaye (whom I saw a recent picture of a few years back in one of those recording magazines like Mix) and Jim Lockert did some work on "Pet Sounds"....could they have been assisting Chuck or Bo David?  Or maybe they did some vocal or mixing sessions that we don't have documentation for...?

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason Penick on February 18, 2006, 12:58:27 PM
Well looks like Alan Boyd already answered my question in a previous thread:

Alan, do we know about the following tracks?
"Good News" (06.11.67)
"Hawaiian Song" (06.21.67)
"Good Time Mama" (06.26.67)
"Untitled #2" (07.06.67)
The only thing I've been able to deduce (via the Badman book) is that part of
"Hawaiian Song" ended up in "Little Pad".
Has any of this stuff ever been described in detail by Brad Elliott or one of the
upper echelon researchers? I love Smiley and am totally intregued that there
might be some bona-fide outtakes from those sessions.

I've heard the HAWAIIAN SONG - it's the tracking session for a section of
LITTLE PAD. Haven't heard those other Smiley Smile session tapes, though.
Alan


Turns out the quote from Alan (Jardine) was earlier than I expected too.  The inference that it was sung in Hawaiian was actually the interviewer's, who must have been referencing "Do You Like Worms".

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 12:59:39 PM
Are you sure it's girls and not a speeded up  or altered tape a la She's Going Bald?

I had been told by a very credible source that it was a sped up tape, but one of our homely scholars here (forget who) told me it was in fact Marilyn and Annie Wilson.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason Penick on February 18, 2006, 01:13:06 PM
One more tidbit I stumbled upon while reading Badman.  "During a 1968 interview for US Earth News Radio, Brian says that the Beach Boys almost broke up for good over the decision not to release 'Surf's Up' now."  By the word "now", Badman is apparently referring to around the time of the Inside Pop special (April 1967).  This raises the following questions:

-- How "complete" would a mid-1967 version of "Surf's Up" have been?

-- What would they have released it as; an album track or a 45?

-- Was there any consideration towards including it on Smiley Smile?  Would they have gone with the full studio version in such a case, or re-cut it a la "Wonderful" and "Windchimes"?  (Maybe just the Brian solo version with some harmonies added?)

-- The critical question:  Who was for or against releasing it?  If Brian wanted it released, who could stop him?  (I realize I'm drifting into "the thread" territory-- sorry!)


I've never seen this quote referenced before in any thread, but it seems critical.  All I've ever heard before is that the "vocal sessions (for 'Surf's Up') had gone very badly, " but the band almost breaking up over whether or not to release it?  Isn't that something of a bombshell?  ???


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 01:13:59 PM
It has the timbre of Marilyn's voice which I can pick out. She pops in on a few tracks in the Beach Boys albums. Busy Doin' Nothing has a bit of her.

No way it's a sped up tape of the BBoys themselves.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 01:15:35 PM
Quote
Two different artists there....

Of course. I know that. I think rolling stone magazine picked those as the best songs of all time on two different polls.

Ah gotcha


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:17:56 PM
Quote
No, no, one's the best song of all time, the other one's the second best song of all time.

I think Like a Rolling Stone is up there, but definitely not number 1, and I think satisfaction is not even in my top 1,000 songs. I really don't like the Stones.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 01:28:37 PM
I've read that story too, and I think it was Brian who didn't want it released at that time. It wasn't finished, at least not to his satisfaction. But who knows? He thought differently of it in 1970 when Carl went back to it and added some flourishes and vocals.

Brian's quite indecisive on that song. On the BBC Radio 1 documentary of Smile, he called the '71 Surf's Up a piece of sh*t. Said he didn't know why they let a record go out like that.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 01:34:01 PM
That does not mean they're not great. Which you should admit.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:39:01 PM
I'll admit that other people think they're great. I don't think they're anything special. I think there are hundreds of songs better than satisfaction. That song is pretty boring to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:39:59 PM
Although it was the first riff I learned on guitar, but if a person who just picked up the guitar can play that with ease I don't think it should be considered the number 1 song of all time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 01:43:42 PM
Wow, man. That's not what rock is about. Rock is primal. Rock IS something a kid can do the first day he picks up a guitar. That does not mean things that are more complicated don't have validity, but rock is Louie Louie and Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow, I Wanna Be Your Dog, it's That's All Right Mama, Tutti Frutti.
Complication simply does not make ANYTHING better, particularly in rock.

And, objectivity means being able to see the qualities of something without necessarily liking it yourself. It's a good quality.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:59:07 PM
True, but I don't think this is good primal rock to my ears. Chuck Berry did it better.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 02:02:38 PM
Fair enough. I think Keith would agree.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 02:30:31 PM
I'm pretty sure he said let a "vocal go out like that". That makes more sense to me because I find that Carl's lead hardly compares to the lead Brian did in the original sessions.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on February 18, 2006, 03:08:07 PM
Are you sure it's girls and not a speeded up  or altered tape a la She's Going Bald?

I had been told by a very credible source that it was a sped up tape, but one of our homely scholars here (forget who) told me it was in fact Marilyn and Annie Wilson.

Somewhere earlier in this thread, I posted a quote from Stephen Desper, who answered this very question for me on the old board. I reposted it here but I can't be bothered to go through it again. Anyway, he said it was the wives.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on February 18, 2006, 05:56:21 PM
I really hate strongly opinionated dickheads who feel whatever they think is right and if you disagree then your just wrong. And of course they just love to declare what SUCKS! and what doesn't SUCK. Kinda boring. Wouldn't you guys agree?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 05:58:39 PM
I really hate people who really hate strongly opinionated dickheads who really hate stuff!!!!!!!  ;D
Yeah, man, although we've all been guilty of that at one time or another.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on February 18, 2006, 06:00:07 PM
True, very true.  :-*


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rerun on February 18, 2006, 06:24:59 PM
About the title... I just always assumed that they had already done advertising for "Smile," so, to still capitalize on the marketing, slightly changed the name so it would still be recognizable.  Afterall, they couldn't realease it as "Smile" since it wasn't.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: jabba2 on February 18, 2006, 06:46:45 PM
I've read that story too, and I think it was Brian who didn't want it released at that time. It wasn't finished, at least not to his satisfaction. But who knows? He thought differently of it in 1970 when Carl went back to it and added some flourishes and vocals.

Brian's quite indecisive on that song. On the BBC Radio 1 documentary of Smile, he called the '71 Surf's Up a piece of merda. Said he didn't know why they let a record go out like that.


You sure Brian wasnt referring to the rest of that album? I heard he really disliked STD.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Mitchell on February 18, 2006, 09:51:55 PM
You sure Brian wasnt referring to the rest of that album? I heard he really disliked STD.

Yeah, it wasn't "Beach Boys" enough. He just didn't support Mike fodaing with the formula, I guess.

I'm pretty sure I have read a Brian quote about Surf's Up the song being "a piece of merda vocally."


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Rocker on February 19, 2006, 05:20:26 AM
Here ya go, it's at the end:  http://rapidshare.de/files/13622566/BBC_Radio_One_Story_of_Smile-_06-_Going_Insane_and_Surf_s_Up.mp3.html


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: c-man on February 19, 2006, 06:37:23 AM
I dunno, I always got the impression that Brian didn't like the way his solo piano performance was tacked onto the part with Carl singing to make a complete take.  I think his problem was with his part of it.  Sounds fine to me, of course, but apparently he had planned that "second movement" to have strings and be fuller sounding, therefore he didn't like the quasi-demo quality of what became part of the master.

C-Man


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 19, 2006, 03:21:56 PM
Boy...the part with vocals sure is sped up. Was that done by Murry?

:lol:


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 19, 2006, 05:21:34 PM
one thing that really amazes me about SmileySS, beside the overhauling of Brian's Smile tunes, is their use of manipulated tape & the machienes to further an exotic sound. no flange, heavy delays or any thing extrordinary, just enough that  fits in the organic demo-like quality of the LP as a whole. Of course,Tons o'Splicing,though...but just like in"GV", SSmiley & the Boys use splicing like an Effect--not just  means to "EDIT".

anyone care to elaborate on this point further?

P.S.- Brian once said that 2 min. was like 2 hrs. on drugs...anybody think this is why Smiley Smile and some outtakes like Bin Way too Long, as well as what came to be Cool cool Water, are more like vignettes of a wacky cartoon series, instead of balls-out songs, like on Wild Honey or SunFlower?

anybody out there even care>??


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 19, 2006, 05:31:49 PM
I think they're songs, or song-like material, but they're of a mosaic, just like Smile. Been Way Too Long is the natural evolution of the modular method Brian pioneered with Good Vibrations.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 19, 2006, 06:13:51 PM
slicing is an art in/of itself...what do u say about the drug question?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 19, 2006, 06:54:41 PM
So much interesting stuff can be done with splicing both tape and using it effectively digitally. Such a cool sound emerges from splicing a vocal out instead of a natural "pull the faders down slowly" way. It's just a bit risky if you haven't got the time or patience to mess up.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Andreas on February 20, 2006, 02:24:40 AM
Wow, 37 pages? I haven't read them, but let me comment on the album: I can't stand it.

Why is that? Because I compare it with Smile or Pet Sounds? Because the low production values ruin it? Because it reeks of sabotage? Maybe these points play some role. But I love Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20, and the same could be said about those.

Good Vibrations doesn't belong on this album, it was released one year before. Heroes And Villains is still a great song, even in this edited version, but once I heard all the alternate sections, I can't really enjoy this mix anymore. With Me Tonight is a nice tune, but I prefer all three other versions. Fall Breaks is a minor favorite of mine, but it's not exactly full of variety. And Whistle In is a promising snippet, one of the highlights.

I have talked about Gettin' Hungry before, but boy, how annoying is that one. Every milli-second of it. Easily the worst recorded two minutes of Beach Boys from the 1960s. My last description was "something I could write within two minutes if I were drunk". Yes, still fitting.

The Smile leftovers Wonderful, Vegetables and Wind Chimes are very frustrating, since they intentionally play the sincerity and effort of the older recordings down. Yes, there is the lovely "whispering winds" section, but mixed so low that you have to turn up your stereo so loud only to be shocked by...see last paragraph. Carl's lead vocal on Wonderful can only be understood in an ironic way, along the lines "this is a beautiful melody, so I will sing it as bad and as uninterested as possible."

Little Pad and She's Going Bald are typical effects of drugs. Hillarious when you are stoned (and in the studio during the recording and mixing), but dull when you are sober. I don't have any problem with music created under the influence of drugs, but the result should be enjoyable without the help of them.

I gave it two points, mainly for Fall Breaks and Whistle In and the acceptable With Me Tonight.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: OLD GREGG on February 20, 2006, 02:37:35 AM
Wow, 37 pages? I haven't read them, but let me comment on the album: I can't stand it.

Why is that? Because I compare it with Smile or Pet Sounds? Because the low production values ruin it? Because it reeks of sabotage? Maybe these points play some role. But I love Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20, and the same could be said about those.

Good Vibrations doesn't belong on this album, it was released one year before. Heroes And Villains is still a great song, even in this edited version, but once I heard all the alternate sections, I can't really enjoy this mix anymore. With Me Tonight is a nice tune, but I prefer all three other versions. Fall Breaks is a minor favorite of mine, but it's not exactly full of variety. And Whistle In is a promising snippet, one of the highlights.

I have talked about Gettin' Hungry before, but boy, how annoying is that one. Every milli-second of it. Easily the worst recorded two minutes of Beach Boys from the 1960s. My last description was "something I could write within two minutes if I were drunk". Yes, still fitting.

The Smile leftovers Wonderful, Vegetables and Wind Chimes are very frustrating, since they intentionally play the sincerity and effort of the older recordings down. Yes, there is the lovely "whispering winds" section, but mixed so low that you have to turn up your stereo so loud only to be shocked by...see last paragraph. Carl's lead vocal on Wonderful can only be understood in an ironic way, along the lines "this is a beautiful melody, so I will sing it as bad and as uninterested as possible."

Little Pad and She's Going Bald are typical effects of drugs. Hillarious when you are stoned (and in the studio during the recording and mixing), but dull when you are sober. I don't have any problem with music created under the influence of drugs, but the result should be enjoyable without the help of them.

I gave it two points, mainly for Fall Breaks and Whistle In and the acceptable With Me Tonight.

Every reason you state for disliking it is exactly why I love it..  :)

37 pages is definitely an impressive number.. a sign that like all the best art it divides opinion among those that claim authoritive knowledge on the subject of musical expression.. it's still just as subversive and beautifully ugly as it ever was as shown by the strong reaction it gets from most everyone, whether they love it or otherwise there is no doubt that it causes a need to express the feelings that it stirs up.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 20, 2006, 02:48:07 AM
'ey, great review Andreas...  agree with alot of it, not with some others... but an outstanding piece of writing nonetheless.

I disagree though that 20/20 is 'minimalist' production... it's nearly all huge to my ears.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 02:55:14 AM
Quote
an outstanding piece of writing

???
Fine opinions, well put, but?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 20, 2006, 03:09:59 AM
Haha, well his grammar and paragraphin' were tops Ian ;)

Don't be sad mate, I got 6 CD's today...

Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy (I'm sure to dig this one)
Sarah Blasko - The Overture and the Underscore
Jeff Buckley - Grace
Kevin Borich - Celebration
Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run (just single disc, the set is too expensive at the mo)
Genesis - Nursery Cryme

Barely heard a thing by alot of them, hope it's all good.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 03:11:52 AM
Quote
Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run (just single disc, the set is too expensive at the mo)
Genesis - Nursery Cryme



 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Andreas on February 20, 2006, 03:13:19 AM
Quote
an outstanding piece of writing

???
Fine opinions, well put, but?
Ahem, I did not intend to write an essay, and I am not the world's greatest writer. :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 20, 2006, 03:17:46 AM
Well ya did fine Andrea...

now let's get back on topic.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 03:18:52 AM
No offense intended, I thought it twas a fine, woefully wrong, but very well-put post!  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Matinee Idyll on February 20, 2006, 03:23:52 AM
Off topic again, Ian, of the CD's I bought, what won't require my full attention for a first listen?

Just listened to Kev, what a great guitarist, who next?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 10:47:54 AM
The 4 I know all require full attention!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 20, 2006, 11:53:01 PM
[
Not to sound cheeky here, but I doubt the Boys could have tuned the steel guitar the proper way without asking someone, let alone have played such a smooth and as you said "nuanced" slide part that remained perfectly in tune. That's the real bear on that instrument - intonation.


Lennon burned it up on "For You Blue"!

C-Man

 ;) Yes he burned it up, and it's a bitchin' lap steel part, but he's out of tune - by even the most relaxed standards of playing a lap steel guitar with good intonation. Some of the outtakes are even worse...
But did it matter in that context? Of course not, it's a cool part that fits the tune like a glove.
(http://www.thecanteen.com/johnslide.jpg)

 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: theeponymuseudonym on February 25, 2006, 12:20:13 AM
I TRULY DISLIKE 2004 SMILE, 1 YEAR ON....

JUST SAW HIS LENO APPERANCE....EMBARRASING!!!!

NO SOUL, JUST BORING FANGEEKS NOTE4NOTE PROFESIONALISM!!!!!

GIMME DRUNK DENNIS ANYDAY!!!
HEY MR. FOSKETT, SLIM IT DOWN FER F**** SAKE.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 25, 2006, 02:47:26 PM
Charls, PLEASE ban this guy.
I'll make u breakfast in bed for a week.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: OLD GREGG on February 25, 2006, 04:11:18 PM
Charls, PLEASE ban this guy.
I'll make u breakfast in bed for a week.
And ill make you breakfast in bed..


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: NC on February 28, 2006, 10:55:52 AM
I never understood why this album didn't do better on the charts. With the mega-hit GV making it's first album appearance, and H&V was a modest hit too?  ::) Could it be that by 1967 the BBs were a singles act only?



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 28, 2006, 12:42:50 PM
People didn't want a freaky art album by squares.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on February 28, 2006, 12:43:37 PM
By 1967, nobody cared enough.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: NC on February 28, 2006, 01:50:55 PM
People didn't want a freaky art album by squares.

Funny. It's the squares make the BEST art albums!



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason Penick on April 06, 2006, 12:01:38 PM
For me, the ultimate statement of Brian Wilson's artistic genius would have to be Pet Sounds.  However, this quirky little record, derided by many if not most Beach Boy fans, has risen to become my personal favorite, surpassing the wonderful Friends, the lost SMiLE album and even the mighty Sounds itself.  To think that one record could possibly speak to my soul so directly, embed itself in my subconscious, and leave its imprint on my brain so that I can instantly recall every nuance of every song even after I've gone months without hearing it, is incredible. 

The trip starts inside the Little Smiley Cabin as pictured on the record sleeve, located somewhere in the jungles of Oahu, as you recline listening to the edited 45 version of your all-time favorite Beach Boys song, "Heroes & Villains" on the turntable.  While some fans dislike this particular edit, it's the one you grew up on; and as such no other version can ever meet or surpass it in your humble estimation.  And, oh yes, you adore the sound of the Baldwin!  The clock indicates it's lunch time, where you will feast on the minimalist masterpiece "Vegetables", which utilizes to incredible effect the sounds of pouring water and celery chomping as its percussion track.  (Name one heralded indie band that's clever and cool enough to do something so bizarre yet utterly great, even though it's nearly forty years after the fact.  Hell, name one indie band that can sing harmonies anywhere near as good as what you hear on here! )

You now exit the Little Smiley Cabin for a trip into the heart of the jungle on "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter", where you are simultaneously frightened and amused by what you see.  You reckon it's hard to think of another musician who is as good at using melodies to conjure images in your mind as Brian Wilson, and this track is the perfect example of that.  Next, a trip of a decidedly different sort, as you drop acid and head to Mike Love's girlfriend's house and discover to your horror that "She's Goin' Bald", man!  The freakiness of the sped-up wall of Beach Boy voices is almost too much... Luckily you've cooled down from your trip as you make our way out of the jungle, and back to your "Little Pad" on the beach.   The harmonies and steel guitar here are at once peaceful and yet reminiscent of the increasing mental instability of the head Beach Boy.

The acid is kicking in even more and now you're feeling those good ol' "Good Vibrations"; keying in to what surrounds you every day, but which you are usually too busy or distracted to appreciate.  Set up a lawn chair outside the little pad, and listen to the waves and the sound of "Wind Chimes" as the sun begins to set.  You're groovin' along with a peaceful buzz, when you see that hot girl walk by in the two piece bikini.  Makes you wish you had one to call your own.  Too bad you're normally too busy busting your ass under the hot Hawaiian sun to have enough time to dedicate to one special lady.  Seeing her walk by now, you know you're "Gettin' Hungry" for that kind of woman.  Then suddenly you flash back to your childhood, and that experience you had with that girl you met that one summer when you came up to stay with your gram.  Something had changed profoundly by the end of that summer-- she was no longer the little girl you once knew.  You groove on these feelings as the acid wears off, and decide that the experience was indeed "Wonderful", despite the mixed emotions you felt at the time.  At peace, you find yourself whistling a simple melody, and vowing that you'll remember this day and night all day long the next day.  You walk back into your pad and put "Heroes and Villains" on the record player...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on April 06, 2006, 12:28:26 PM
Great review!

I never thought of Whistle In in that way.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on April 16, 2006, 07:58:42 PM
I think the instrumental track for "Wonderful" is so unbelievably sad sounding.  I was listening to it in the car the other day, stopped at a traffic light, and watching the pedestrian people go about their mundane little journeys (much as I was) was just so sad...and at the same time so comforting, so lovely.

This is the enigma of Smiley for me:  so fodaed up, so beautiful.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Malc on April 19, 2006, 12:15:59 PM
Does ANYONE know as to who/how/what provided the fantastic front cover to "Smiley Smile" ? Any ideas as to who painted the artwork ?? A great cover in my opinion ... but I was kinda hoping someone could shed some light on it for me.
 :-\


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: punkinhead on April 19, 2006, 06:26:00 PM
honestly, it's better than Smile, IMO


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on April 19, 2006, 09:25:04 PM
honestly, it's better than Smile, IMO

The album artwork or the music itself?

I've often wondered if the change of album titles (SMiLE to SMiLEY SMiLE) was due to someone disliking SMiLE's album cover. They already had it printed ---- like 400, 000 copies or whatever. That means if they didn't like it they would need new ones printed ---- Now as SMiLEY SMiLE with the revised artwork. I too like SS's cover a lot better. I stare at it for minutes at a time --- barely looked at Smile's to be honest. I consider the cabin to be the one from Cabinessence. The same one that was in Brian & V.D.P's mind while writing and recording the song. The album itself, now SMiLEY does sound like a bunch of whacked-out musicians playing stoned and crazy music to each other. Though it was meticulously recorded, it sounds very loose and laid back.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mitchell on April 20, 2006, 07:08:36 AM
I picture the cabin as being the Smile Shop from Frank Holmes' art, which I also completely adore. I just love the idea that the beauty of the original SMiLE music is within the twisted, creepy jungle of Smiley Smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: punkinhead on April 20, 2006, 07:26:50 PM
i enjoy the album cover a whole lot. it's like the animals that the BB were visiting in pet sounds came out to see Brian and cheer him up  ;D


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on April 23, 2006, 09:57:59 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Rousseau

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=%22henri+rousseau%22+&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images


The Smiley Smile album cover is a knock off/rip off of a French artist named Henri Rousseau. The only major difference is they (or whoever painted the album cover) inserted the Smile Shop, from Frank Holmes original cover, into the jungle.

Here are a few pics of Rousseau's jungle paintings


(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/190/rousseautherepastofthelion8pp.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4029/665pxhenrirousseau0119ys.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2886/11rousseau0xx.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4820/junglesunsetprintc100326512td.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6012/rousseu18yj.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)




Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on April 23, 2006, 10:31:07 PM
GREAT post.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on April 23, 2006, 10:47:07 PM
thank you.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Burnley Vest on May 03, 2006, 08:19:21 AM
"Whistle In" sounds like an attempt to ape a McCartney-march like "Penny Lane", but without mustering McCartneys melodic inventiveness.
"Whistle In" is indeed a fragment, and BW is aping someone, but it ain't McCartney. Both Wilson and McCartney are superb melodicists, and "Whistle In" obviously isn't an attempt at a great melody line, but McCartney's bouncing marches owe a lot to his love of Pet Sounds, nay? And if you try singing the"Gotta keep those..." melody from "GV's" over "Whistle In", you'll find that it's very easy...same bass line, similar if not same chords (I haven't studied this), although in a different key.

Brian is aping himself here, and rehashing a fragment from the same side of the L.P. to boot!

As to the larger question, I also gave Smiley 3 stars. I LOVE weirdness; "Diamond Head" and "Transcendental Meditation", for instance, are two of my absolute fav BB tracks. But this one doesn't have the care evident in the better "Produced by the Beach Boys" works, and it's just too much of a sorry substitute for "SMiLE".


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Burnley Vest on May 03, 2006, 11:48:59 AM
-- The critical question:  Who was for or against releasing it?  If Brian wanted it released, who could stop him?  (I realize I'm drifting into "the thread" territory-- sorry!)
What is this "the thread" of which you speak. I've seen this repeatedly mentioned on the board, and would like to be enlightened (or disturbed, or entertained, or disgusted or....)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on May 03, 2006, 12:19:05 PM
"Whistle In" sounds like an attempt to ape a McCartney-march like "Penny Lane", but without mustering McCartneys melodic inventiveness.
"Whistle In" is indeed a fragment, and BW is aping someone, but it ain't McCartney. Both Wilson and McCartney are superb melodicists, and "Whistle In" obviously isn't an attempt at a great melody line, but McCartney's bouncing marches owe a lot to his love of Pet Sounds, nay?

I think McCartney was more influenced by ragtime/ english musichall music in his use of march rhythms. He wrote "When I'm Sixty Four" which is also a march, when he was 16 and the only march type of rhythm I can hear on PS is "God Only Knows". I think if you listen to McCartneys basslines, he very often falls into a march type of rhythm, so I think it's something very inherent in him. But yeah, Brian had been using march-type rhythms before, the chorus to "California Girls" and "The Little Girl I Once Knew" comes to mind. "Whistle In" just sounds very McCartneyish to me or maybe like Burt Bacharach.

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: jazzfascist on May 03, 2006, 12:24:21 PM
-- The critical question:  Who was for or against releasing it?  If Brian wanted it released, who could stop him?  (I realize I'm drifting into "the thread" territory-- sorry!)
What is this "the thread" of which you speak. I've seen this repeatedly mentioned on the board, and would like to be enlightened (or disturbed, or entertained, or disgusted or....)

I think it's a discussion concerning whether Brian abandoned "Smile" of his own free will or if he gave it up because of the resistance from the rest of the group. It also includes a discussion of whether "Smiley Smile" is really "Smile", meaning that this is what Brian really wanted to do.

Søren 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on May 03, 2006, 12:30:56 PM
Interesting post about the artwork. Now, who was the influence to use such work for the Smiley album cover?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: punkinhead on May 11, 2006, 11:22:04 AM
i like wistle in, but everyone always says it's from heroes and villains. to me, it's totally the hawaiin chant from do you like worms


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on May 11, 2006, 11:28:32 AM
i like wistle in, but everyone always says it's from heroes and villains. to me, it's totally the hawaiin chant from do you like worms
I can hear it, I can hear it...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vega-Table Man on May 25, 2006, 12:52:03 PM
Hi folks,

This is my first post on the board. I've been enjoying this Smiley Smile thread very much, reading all the different opinions (pro and con) and thoughts about it ... It's an album that seems more compelling to me all the time, and one I can't seem to stop listening to lately. There's just something about those voices.  :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jonas on May 26, 2006, 09:43:53 AM
I hated 'Goin Bald' because it wasn't true to 'He Gives Speeches' but man, the more I listen to it the more its growing on me. sonofabi...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on May 26, 2006, 09:46:38 AM
I heard Bald first, so I've never been able to get used to Speeches.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on May 28, 2006, 12:27:53 PM
I heard Bald first, so I've never been able to get used to Speeches.

He Gives Speeches baffles me sometimes. This was the same guy who made "Kiss Me Baby" or the stunning instrumental 'Pet Sounds". Now he's doing this song, and what is it really? A bit of piano, a great snare and kick sound, an almost spoken word vocal with a high whining one in the back; It's hardly as brilliant as anything he'd done before, but maybe that was its intention?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: Cam Mott on June 04, 2006, 12:40:23 PM
Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

I just don't think that you can take the tapes as some final evidence, especially since you don't have tapes of every single session, that was done, you have to piecemeal your understanding of what happened together, by using the various available sources and weigh it against each other. Just because Brian doesn't cry into the microphone and it sounds like he was in control, doesn't mean he actually was in control and Carl's statements tells another story, as does the production credit. As c-man points out you can also hear the others producing in the booth. Brian was probably still the man when it was about getting things down on tape, but if you take Carls statement seriously, it also seems that now the artistic direction also came from the others in the group. Also the album doesn't sound like it was a sharply conceived minimalist album, but rather as something that doesn't go too deep and was loosely jammed together.

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS. Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Well he didn't play everything and SS is also almost an acapella album, so the rest of the group was very responsible for that part, also by that logic would you say that Hal Blaine and the rest of the Wrecking Crew were in control of those albums, where they did most of the instrumental work.

Søren

Carl has said directly twice, I believe, that Brian was the producer of Smiley Smile. Once in the 80s Himes interview and once in a recorded interview from the 60s Alan Boyd discovered.  Jimmy Lockert told me that Brian was the only producer of Smiley but Peter has said that Jimmy told him something different.

What is being called producing sounds to me like no more than someone being Brian's ears in the booth when he is in the studio.  I seem to remember on previous albums the same thing done by Chuck, Jerry [an engineer at Columbia], Van Dyke, other BBs [memory vague] and even Michael Vosse.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 04, 2006, 06:01:33 PM
This is one album that desperately needs a stereo remix (and Wild Honey, too). The sound of the SOT set is freaking awesome.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile sequence
Post by: jazzfascist on June 05, 2006, 11:53:33 AM
Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

I just don't think that you can take the tapes as some final evidence, especially since you don't have tapes of every single session, that was done, you have to piecemeal your understanding of what happened together, by using the various available sources and weigh it against each other. Just because Brian doesn't cry into the microphone and it sounds like he was in control, doesn't mean he actually was in control and Carl's statements tells another story, as does the production credit. As c-man points out you can also hear the others producing in the booth. Brian was probably still the man when it was about getting things down on tape, but if you take Carls statement seriously, it also seems that now the artistic direction also came from the others in the group. Also the album doesn't sound like it was a sharply conceived minimalist album, but rather as something that doesn't go too deep and was loosely jammed together.

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS. Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Well he didn't play everything and SS is also almost an acapella album, so the rest of the group was very responsible for that part, also by that logic would you say that Hal Blaine and the rest of the Wrecking Crew were in control of those albums, where they did most of the instrumental work.

Søren

Carl has said directly twice, I believe, that Brian was the producer of Smiley Smile. Once in the 80s Himes interview and once in a recorded interview from the 60s Alan Boyd discovered.  Jimmy Lockert told me that Brian was the only producer of Smiley but Peter has said that Jimmy told him something different.

What is being called producing sounds to me like no more than someone being Brian's ears in the booth when he is in the studio.  I seem to remember on previous albums the same thing done by Chuck, Jerry [an engineer at Columbia], Van Dyke, other BBs [memory vague] and even Michael Vosse.

Well, why should they say it was produced by Beach Boys on the cover, if it was in fact produced by Brian Wilson alone, that would be sort of giving up a selling point. Carl has also said, that it was an album, that they jammed together. I also think that if you listen to SOT 18, you don't hear a lot of Brian, except for the instrumental tracks, which he and maybe a couple of other musicians produced. When it comes to the vocals you don't hear that much of him, it seems that everybody was involved in deciding, which was the best recording and so forth, it doesn''t sound like him guiding them, as you can hear on other bootlegs

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on June 05, 2006, 12:44:24 PM
Brian is definitely in charge of recording the instrumental parts if only because the tracks start with those before vocals were added.  And on vocal sessions, at least in the one Wind Chimes session, Brian is as in control as any of them would be -- considering that they are all high as kites, most obviously Mike. 

Why make that production credit?  Politics?  Group harmony?  Brian wiping his hands clean of the mess?  Any number of reasons.  In 1967 most fans weren't reading the production credits too closely, I would think, as opposed to 1976 where it WAS a selling point.

Did Brian produce it like he did the Smile sessions?  No, they weren't that professional.  But was it Brian's artistic drive behind the scope and content of the sessions (along with some input along the way)?  I think so.  Based upon subsequent albums (like, say, Love You) Smiley is clearly the voice of Brian Wilson, however and for whatever reason it was made.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on June 05, 2006, 12:45:06 PM
BTW -- it is really weird to see a list of threads all started by Buckwheat....

OTay...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on June 06, 2006, 05:08:10 AM
Brian is definitely in charge of recording the instrumental parts if only because the tracks start with those before vocals were added.  And on vocal sessions, at least in the one Wind Chimes session, Brian is as in control as any of them would be -- considering that they are all high as kites, most obviously Mike. 

I don't know about that, they run through "Wind Chimes" a number of times, without any interference from Brian, even though they make mistakes and so forth, it doesn't particularly sound as if he's guiding them, rather it sounds more like they're making up their own performance. Brian also sounds a little tired and depressed on some of those outtakes.

Quote
Why make that production credit?  Politics?  Group harmony?  Brian wiping his hands clean of the mess?  Any number of reasons.  In 1967 most fans weren't reading the production credits too closely, I would think, as opposed to 1976 where it WAS a selling point.

Maybe the fans weren't reading the production credits too closely, however Brian was known as the mastemind and I would say that a Brian Wilson production still guaranteed a certain quality and was a selling point. I think  it was probably him wiping his hands of the mess, he didn't want to take responsibility for something he didn't feel that associated with.

Quote
But was it Brian's artistic drive behind the scope and content of the sessions (along with some input along the way)?  I think so.  Based upon subsequent albums (like, say, Love You) Smiley is clearly the voice of Brian Wilson, however and for whatever reason it was made.

I don't think you can compare those two albums, they were both strange yes, but "Smiley" was a sort of psychedelic album whereas  "Love You" was more of a punky album.

Søren



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on June 06, 2006, 06:02:26 AM


Quote
But was it Brian's artistic drive behind the scope and content of the sessions (along with some input along the way)?  I think so.  Based upon subsequent albums (like, say, Love You) Smiley is clearly the voice of Brian Wilson, however and for whatever reason it was made.

I don't think you can compare those two albums, they were both strange yes, but "Smiley" was a sort of psychedelic album whereas  "Love You" was more of a punky album.

Søren



Sure you can compare them.  First off, Brian plays most of the instruments on both.  Second off, look at the lyrics to "She's Going Bald."  Compare to "Solar System", "Good Time", or "Airplane".  Forget the Love or Parks credits, I would lay money on those being Brian's words largely and it clearly is the same voice.  Compositionally, both from music and lyrics, these are both albums I call "unfiltered Brian Wilson".  He wrote most of it alone, played most of it, and did it all from his own perspective.  Forget the ambiance, where one is psychedelic and one is punk basement -- these two albums bear all the same fingerprints of creation.  Perhaps Carl did help out on finalizing both of them, but I doubt he added much in the ways of inspiration, putting the finer touches on Brian's babies all the way.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on June 06, 2006, 10:27:33 AM


Quote
But was it Brian's artistic drive behind the scope and content of the sessions (along with some input along the way)?  I think so.  Based upon subsequent albums (like, say, Love You) Smiley is clearly the voice of Brian Wilson, however and for whatever reason it was made.

I don't think you can compare those two albums, they were both strange yes, but "Smiley" was a sort of psychedelic album whereas  "Love You" was more of a punky album.

Søren



Sure you can compare them.  First off, Brian plays most of the instruments on both.  Second off, look at the lyrics to "She's Going Bald."  Compare to "Solar System", "Good Time", or "Airplane".  Forget the Love or Parks credits, I would lay money on those being Brian's words largely and it clearly is the same voice.  Compositionally, both from music and lyrics, these are both albums I call "unfiltered Brian Wilson".  He wrote most of it alone, played most of it, and did it all from his own perspective.  Forget the ambiance, where one is psychedelic and one is punk basement -- these two albums bear all the same fingerprints of creation.  Perhaps Carl did help out on finalizing both of them, but I doubt he added much in the ways of inspiration, putting the finer touches on Brian's babies all the way.

They're two very different albums, Smiley is a minimalistic almost acapella album, whereas "Love You" has multilayered instrumental tracks and sounds very different. Compositionally Smiley is more strange with the helium voices, strange musical inserts and  so forth, whereas Love You has much more conventional song structures, the same goes for the lyrics which are almost all boy-girl lyrics. Of course both albums bears Brians imprints but of the two, "Love You" is probably the most unfiltered Brian,  together with an album like "Pet Sounds"

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on June 06, 2006, 10:43:19 AM
Geez, Soren, you make Love You sound so conventional!   ;D

I see the same voice making lyrics like these:

"You're too late mama, ain't nothing upside your head!"

"When she saw her shining forehead didn't stop she swooned to the ground, laughed so hard I blew my mind."

"Well, oh my, oh gosh, oh gee, she really sends chills inside of me"

"If Mars had life on it, I might find my wife on it"

"My girlfriend Betty she's awful skinny, and so she needs her falsies on."

"Pat, pat her on her butt."

That my friends, is unfiltered Brian Wilson.  So are the quirky sounds of the Woody Woodpecker Suite and the freaky sound of, well, the whole blessed Love You album which is the second weirdest BB album ever (Smiley being the weirdest -- see any connection there?).  You focus on the sound of the album, whereas I focus on the voice.  Only on these two released albums is Brian Wilson, man-child who never grew up, with locker-room humor, on full display with no regard to chart potential.  The same voice made Adult Child as well.  If you say you love Brian Wilson, you pretty much must mean this stuff, since the rest was Brian Wilson doing what was required to make a hit.  These albums were Brian being Brian.

And I would argue that PS IS filtered Brian, since Tony Asher wrote most of the words.  Maybe they were Brian's thoughts, but Asher also molded them by his style as well.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Beach Boy on June 06, 2006, 01:40:02 PM
hi!

hmmm, i don't like smile so much, but this album is great for me, there are some songs, that are very nice

i like "whistle in", one of the best songs from the album is vegetables too

peter


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Ebb and Flow on June 06, 2006, 02:28:40 PM
Even though the state of recording seems unquestionably dark and drug influenced, this album has the most cohesive sound of any album I've ever heard.  Simplistic and beautiful at times, disjointed and frightening at others.  "Little Pad"  "She's Goin' Bald" and "Whistle In" are some of the catchiest melodies, ever.  I don't think any of the re-records from smile (Wind Chimes, Wonderful) are better than the Smile versions, but their arrangement on this fits the rest of the album perfectly, and the songs are still good.  And obviously the leftover scraps (H&V, GV) are great too.  When a band can make something high that's actually worth listening to, that's saying something.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on June 09, 2006, 04:01:35 PM
Geez, Soren, you make Love You sound so conventional!   ;D

I see the same voice making lyrics like these:

"You're too late mama, ain't nothing upside your head!"

"When she saw her shining forehead didn't stop she swooned to the ground, laughed so hard I blew my mind."

"Well, oh my, oh gosh, oh gee, she really sends chills inside of me"

"If Mars had life on it, I might find my wife on it"

"My girlfriend Betty she's awful skinny, and so she needs her falsies on."

"Pat, pat her on her butt."

That my friends, is unfiltered Brian Wilson.  So are the quirky sounds of the Woody Woodpecker Suite and the freaky sound of, well, the whole blessed Love You album which is the second weirdest BB album ever (Smiley being the weirdest -- see any connection there?).  You focus on the sound of the album, whereas I focus on the voice.  Only on these two released albums is Brian Wilson, man-child who never grew up, with locker-room humor, on full display with no regard to chart potential.  The same voice made Adult Child as well.  If you say you love Brian Wilson, you pretty much must mean this stuff, since the rest was Brian Wilson doing what was required to make a hit.  These albums were Brian being Brian.

And I would argue that PS IS filtered Brian, since Tony Asher wrote most of the words.  Maybe they were Brian's thoughts, but Asher also molded them by his style as well.

I think the lyrics on "Love You" and "Smiley" are completely different. On "Love You" the lyrics are childish/amateurish and on "Smiley" they are more impressionistic and poetic. IMO "Vegetables" and "Little Pad" are the only songs that have lyrics, that might resemble the type of lyrics on LY, but so do "Busy Doin Nothing" and "I Went To Sleep". Also most of the  lyrics on "Smiley" were for a large part written in collaboration with other people, plus the rest of the band obviously influenced it, so I don't see why it is particularly unfiltered Brian.

Søren



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on June 09, 2006, 05:42:59 PM
Unfiltered does not preclude collaboration.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: jazzfascist on June 09, 2006, 06:12:20 PM
Unfiltered does not preclude collaboration.

Sorry, but I was told that PS wasn't unfiltered Brian because Tony Asher wrote the lyrics

Søren


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: I. Spaceman on June 09, 2006, 06:21:07 PM
Hmm, I see. I'd call PS unfiltered, but it also feels more "interpreted" by Asher in a formulaic pop-writing way.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jeff Mason on June 09, 2006, 07:53:04 PM
Hmm, I see. I'd call PS unfiltered, but it also feels more "interpreted" by Asher in a formulaic pop-writing way.

I agree.  VDP gets credit for starting the lyrics but Brian was the one finishing them -- and I don't seriously think Mike did much of anything (except maybe "Getting Hungry").  Example: She's Going Bald -- VDP did the silken hair, more silken hair part that we know from speeches.  But I credit all of the rest to Brian, Mike Love credit be damned.  And VDP may have written the lyrics to Wonderful, but Brian's arrangement (and the interlude) undercut the serious nature of the lyrics for an absurdity that is only Brian.  VDP started it in Smile, but Brian finished it alone his way, then gave Mike Love the credits since he was grousing about getting co-credits all along.

PS is not what I called unfiltered Brian because Brian was still trying to make art in some ways by others' rules.  He did it very well, and he found someone who could communicate his thoughts well, but still that interpreter added something to it as well, plus the album just is missing the goofy side of Brian -- it isn't a balanced picture of Brian's heart like Love You was.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on June 10, 2006, 01:34:45 AM
Pet Sounds in some ways is Brian at his most filtered.  I mean, certainly the most filtered of albums that he was fully in charge of.  Asher seems to have had a fairly significant musical as well as lyrical influence, the studio musicians were at the height of their collaboration with Brian, and Brian was taking the classic "Spector arranging" formula to the limit (it would bust open for Smile.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Rocker on June 10, 2006, 09:09:43 AM
i like wistle in, but everyone always says it's from heroes and villains. to me, it's totally the hawaiin chant from do you like worms

I never thought about that, but you're right. It's almost the same melody. Thanks for pointing that out.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on June 11, 2006, 01:24:04 PM
It seems to me to SMiLE was the most filtered Brian because of the lyrics.  I don't think Brian had input to the lyrics and VDP must only mean he was putting a sylable to each note when he claims just following Brian's ideas/lead.

Smiley then seems to be VDP heavily filtered out by Brian making it mostly Brian with only 2 credits for Mike.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: shelter on September 02, 2006, 02:39:25 PM
I don't really like this album. Too much insanity for my taste.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Daniel S. on September 02, 2006, 03:06:20 PM
How many times have you listened it it?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Summer_Days on September 12, 2006, 08:48:09 PM
*sigh* I don't know what to make of Smiley Smile sometimes

Let me be clear. I enjoy the record, mostly, but it's mere existence as it is just turns my brain upside down at times. It's like Smile is some novel akin to the Iliad and Smiley Smile is the Cliff's Notes written by, well, Mike Love. It's the over-simplification of precious Smile tracks that nearly ruins Smiley for me. Plus, if the Beach Boys supposedly hate Brian's Smile songs so much, then HOW COME after that album is shelved, (much to Mike's relief I can guess) WHY do they insist on recording half-baked versions of gems like Wonderful and Wind Chimes anyway?? WHY?!? It all drives me to distraction; Smiley Smile is an oxy moron. If Smile was deemed unreleasable because of it's weirdness, than WHY ON EARTH is Smiley there in its stead, being A HELLUVA LOT WEIRDER and then some?? Grrr...

That said, I do love many things about this record, namely With Me Tonight, Fall Breaks And Back To Winter, the terrific H&V single, and the delightful Gettin' Hungry.

Other things, like the previously mentioned cannibalized Wind Chimes and Wonderful plus the really silly things like She's Goin' Bald and Little Pad drive me bonkers. WTF? I DO like them, but I have trouble understanding why these tracks are here instead of Smile beauties.

When I first bought the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey two-fer, I immediately fell in love with Wild Honey. I guess I still listen through Smiley with baited breath for WH to arrive, and that might not be so good for me if I want to understand this crazy album. Despite the fact I find it to be very enjoyable for the most part, I don't know if I'll ever understand Smiley Smile after all.

*sigh* Brian, is this record a sarcastic insult of Smile (be it waged by you or the band) or an honest attempt at recreation/reimagining it?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on October 25, 2006, 10:29:09 PM
The first time I listened to it I was quite upset after hearing the real Smile songs in documentaries. However, its really grown on me. Tripped out beauty, a step away from Friends.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on February 23, 2007, 03:11:47 PM
I just have to say my peace, I did join a little late. Like someone wrote on this post, what other band from in the 60's would have the chutzpah to even put out an album like this? The band showed courage in putting out an album of this music to the world. I agree with Luther that With Me Tonight is on par with Our Prayer. I can't get enough listens of that song. Little Pad really takes me away when I am barely holding on in the real world. Fall Breaks is a real work of art....it is a painting to me. Smiley Smile rules...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on February 23, 2007, 03:25:12 PM
I agree with Luther that With Me Tonight is on par with Our Prayer.

Did I say that? Wow, well I'll be damned. I don't remember that. I don't know if I think it is on par with Prayer, actually...I wonder if I was more drunk than usual when I said so. When did I say so?

(I do love it, by the way. And in fact I probably like it as much as Prayer. But I don't think it is as good as Prayer from a compositional standpoint.)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on February 23, 2007, 03:32:30 PM
It's an incredible album - one of my absolute favourites.  'Wind Chimes' and 'Wonderful' are as haunting and unsettling as the SMiLE "originals" are beautiful and transcendent; that the two versions of each song achieve equal yet opposite results represents, to me, an astonishing talent.  

'Little Pad' and 'With Me Tonight' are gorgeous and never fail to move me.  

'Vegatables' trumps the other versions with its simplicity; 'Heroes' gives me a contact high.  Love it, love it, love it.

And 'Fall Breaks..." is a nightmare - scares the sh*t out of me in a curiously pleasing way.

Essential listening: 10/5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on February 23, 2007, 03:39:44 PM
Hmm...I'm no mathematician, but I don't think that works out.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on February 23, 2007, 03:57:16 PM
My apologies Luther... On pg 8 you said it was every bit as affecting of a song as Our Prayer. I agree with you 100%. It's like Our Prayer, but with words.... I remember the first time I heard it.... on the GV box set.... I was just amazed at it's beauty. Still am.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Compost on February 23, 2007, 04:10:42 PM
Hmm...I'm no mathematician, but I don't think that works out.
Just a little hyperbole to underscore my love for this album...

...and 'Whistle In' is a simple little pleaser - love the background vocals.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on February 23, 2007, 04:20:38 PM
No apologizes necessary for me forgetting what I say. I just forgot, that's all.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: mikeyj on March 17, 2007, 07:55:54 PM
It's like Smile is some novel akin to the Iliad and Smiley Smile is the Cliff's Notes written by, well, Mike Love. It's the over-simplification of precious Smile tracks that nearly ruins Smiley for me. Plus, if the Beach Boys supposedly hate Brian's Smile songs so much, then HOW COME after that album is shelved, (much to Mike's relief I can guess) WHY do they insist on recording half-baked versions of gems like Wonderful and Wind Chimes anyway?? WHY?!? It all drives me to distraction; Smiley Smile is an oxy moron. If Smile was deemed unreleasable because of it's weirdness, than WHY ON EARTH is Smiley there in its stead, being A HELLUVA LOT WEIRDER and then some?? Grrr...

Other things, like the previously mentioned cannibalized Wind Chimes and Wonderful plus the really silly things like She's Goin' Bald and Little Pad drive me bonkers. WTF? I DO like them, but I have trouble understanding why these tracks are here instead of Smile beauties.


I could be wrong but I think one of the reasons why Mike didnt want Smile released but didnt mind Smiley is that he had no involvement in songwriting with SMiLE whereas he has a few songs that hes written on Smiley (eg: Gettin Hungry, Good Vibrations, Shes Going Bald)

Anyway, that aside, I think this is a solid album (I dont think its as great as some people make out when you put it in to context of what could have been) but still an enjoyable listen (on the most part anyway). I think it has its charm but SMiLE wouldve been so much better. The one bit I really hate in the album is in She's Going Bald (the sped-up voices) whos idea was that? That really annoys me, the rest of the album I enjoy though. I give it a 4


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris Brown on May 11, 2007, 07:50:28 AM
Ok I know this thread has really died down, but I've been really digging this album lately (even more than usual) so I figured I'd share a few thoughts.

For a long time, I really thought this was Brian's "sabotage" or "I don't give a rip" album.  Just seemed like he couldn't care less and just threw something toghether.  I thought the Smile re-cuts were so much worse than their original versions (namely Wonderful and Wind Chimes).  I didn't understand why so many people raved about it.

Then, at some point, I "got it".  Now I really feel like this was Brian at his weirded-out best.  It was such a radical change for him, yet he pulls it off without missing a beat.  Going from the beauty of Pet Sounds and the sophistication of Smile, Smiley sounds like its coming from a totally different artist.  I guess I started to realize that the album sounds like it does for a very specific reason.  It's not underproduced because Brian didn't care...it was a conscious artistic choice.  Brian had the guts to put out a low-fi druggie record at the peak of the big production era (that he was a big player in to begin with!), not caring what the industry thought or what it might do to the group's career.  It is interesting that after Smiley, groups like the Beatles started backtracking from the big productions too. 

The only complaint I have about the album is the inclusion of Good Vibrations, as it totally doesn't fit sonically with the rest of the album.  Obvioiusly this was not Brian's idea, but I still always skip it when I listen to Smiley.  Without GV, Smiley is the most cohesive record I've ever heard, even more cohesive than Pet Sounds actually.  The tracks are so sparse, yet the vocals fill them out beautifully.  No reverb, no super sophisticated harmonies, no huge orchestral arrangements.  Just a group of guys, a bass, an organ (not to mention the occasional de-tuned piano), and lots of hash.  The sound is so creepy and disturbing at times, yet other times provide sheer beauty (best example being the Wind Chimes fade).  Wonderful creeps me out completely, but somehow still retains its beauty.  Even Whistle In grew on me; I didn't like this one at first.  I was like "wow, that's all there is?"  But I love it.  The way the harmonies are arranged is subtle yet brilliant, and it has that great Brian-like "marching" quality to it that I really like. 

Oh, and the one other thing I love is Brian's "prank" of mixing the Wind Chimes fade really low so you crank it up to hear it, then starting Gettin' Hungry with that loud guitar.  Scared me half to death the first time I hear that.

I love this record!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vega-Table Man on May 11, 2007, 08:26:38 AM
The tracks are so sparse, yet the vocals fill them out beautifully.  No reverb, no super sophisticated harmonies, no huge orchestral arrangements.  Just a group of guys, a bass, an organ (not to mention the occasional de-tuned piano), and lots of hash.  The sound is so creepy and disturbing at times, yet other times provide sheer beauty (best example being the Wind Chimes fade).

You nail the album here ... A huge part of the album's appeal for me is that unique combination of just a few very simple instruments and the voices, and that "dry" recording technique. The importance of the sound of that de-tuned piano to the album's character was really driven home for me when I heard some of the piano tracks isolated on the SOT Alternate Smiley Smile disc; it's a beautiful, very distinctive sound and it's a big part of why I love the album.

And that "Wind Chimes" tag is one of my all-time favorite Beach Boys moments. Just gorgeous.

Great post, Chris. Your views on (and experiences with) this album mirror mine to a "T." Like you, I've been "really digging" and rediscovering the album lately so your revival of the thread is very timely for me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris Brown on May 11, 2007, 12:55:13 PM
Thanks VT...I totally hear you about the de-tuned piano.  First time I heard Wonderful from that SOT with just the piano it blew my mind.  I don't know how or why Brian got into that sound during that particular era, but its just the creepiest sound I've ever heard to come from a piano. 

I love the Wind Chimes tag too; that was also really cool to hear more clearly on SOT.  I was glad when Brian revived it for BWPS.  Vocal arranging at its very best.

I've really been trying to capture a "Smiley" vibe in my latest recordings, and its a lot of fun.  The difficulty is trying to straddle the line between being inspired by the techniques and outright copying them.  But I just find it so fascinating to see what can be done with only a de-tuned piano, organ, bass and some voices. 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on May 11, 2007, 01:42:14 PM
Did you ever notice the the beginning of Getting Hungry sounds like an alarm clock??? It makes sense because the first lyric is, "I wake up in the morning, just to...."

Little things like that make this album really special. There are a lot of layers for such a sparsely produced album...that is very beautiful and expressive to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris Brown on May 11, 2007, 02:47:50 PM
Did you ever notice the the beginning of Getting Hungry sounds like an alarm clock??? It makes sense because the first lyric is, "I wake up in the morning, just to...."

Little things like that make this album really special. There are a lot of layers for such a sparsely produced album...that is very beautiful and expressive to me.

Actually I never thought of that way, but you're right, it fits really well.  I'm actually not a huge fan of Gettin Hungry, but just for the effect it gives after the Wind Chimes tag, I always listen to it anyways.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vega-Table Man on May 11, 2007, 04:23:56 PM
I've really been trying to capture a "Smiley" vibe in my latest recordings, and its a lot of fun.  The difficulty is trying to straddle the line between being inspired by the techniques and outright copying them.  But I just find it so fascinating to see what can be done with only a de-tuned piano, organ, bass and some voices. 

Cool. I'd love to hear your recordings.

I'm in the planning stages for some new recordings myself, and at least one or two are good candidates for Smiley-type sounds, which will be fun to try to capture. (I'm waiting for delivery of a Hammond M3 organ before I start ... it ain't the Baldwin, but at least it's no synth!)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris Brown on May 11, 2007, 07:17:01 PM
I've really been trying to capture a "Smiley" vibe in my latest recordings, and its a lot of fun.  The difficulty is trying to straddle the line between being inspired by the techniques and outright copying them.  But I just find it so fascinating to see what can be done with only a de-tuned piano, organ, bass and some voices. 

Cool. I'd love to hear your recordings.

I'm in the planning stages for some new recordings myself, and at least one or two are good candidates for Smiley-type sounds, which will be fun to try to capture. (I'm waiting for delivery of a Hammond M3 organ before I start ... it ain't the Baldwin, but at least it's no synth!)

I'll be sure to post them whenever I'm finished (might be awhile hah).  Unfortunately all I have to work with is my Yamaha keyboard and the synths that come with it.  There's actually a really cool sounding de-tuned piano (I don't even have to manually de-tune it), and there are some decent organ sounds as well.  Nothing that sounds as cool as a Baldwin, but maybe I can get closer with some EQ tricks. 

The nicest part about recording Smiley style is not having to worry about too many instruments overloading the mix and having to fight for space.  I tend to over-orchestrate and then I have trouble separating all the different sounds.  So its definitely nice to just have a few simple instruments to worry about, and thus be able to focus more on vocals. 

I'd love to hear your stuff too whenever you finish it!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vega-Table Man on May 12, 2007, 03:31:53 AM
I tend to over-orchestrate and then I have trouble separating all the different sounds.  So its definitely nice to just have a few simple instruments to worry about, and thus be able to focus more on vocals. 

Wow, are you ... me?  :-D

I'll try to post mine too when I'm done.



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on May 12, 2007, 06:18:48 AM
I tend to over-orchestrate and then I have trouble separating all the different sounds.  So its definitely nice to just have a few simple instruments to worry about, and thus be able to focus more on vocals. 

Wow, are you ... me?  :-D


I think it's a common curse of anyone who has the tracks to spare. And since the advent of digital recording especially, we all have the tracks to spare. That self-discipline is a bitch to exercise.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Chris Brown on May 13, 2007, 10:15:16 AM
I tend to over-orchestrate and then I have trouble separating all the different sounds.  So its definitely nice to just have a few simple instruments to worry about, and thus be able to focus more on vocals. 

Wow, are you ... me?  :-D


I think it's a common curse of anyone who has the tracks to spare. And since the advent of digital recording especially, we all have the tracks to spare. That self-discipline is a bitch to exercise.

Yeah I think you're totally right about that...I just made the move up to 24 track and my first reaction was that I had to fill them all!  I had an 8 track before so I was really limited in what I could do as far as number of instruments, so now I have to resist the urge to throw everything I can think of in there.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on December 04, 2007, 08:28:48 PM
I read all 68 pages of this thread today, and I learned absolutely nothing. NOTHING.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on December 05, 2007, 03:34:24 PM
You learned that you have plenty of time on your hands.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: TimeToGetAlone on March 05, 2008, 03:33:08 PM
Smiley Smile is a very difficult one for me to review, but you especially need time to relisten to and get a full perspective of it.  At first, it overwhelmed of disjointed fragments, which it could be considered somewhat.  The sounds for the most part are quite pleasant even with the weaker tracks though, and lose marks mainly for cohesiveness between the sections or just missing out on what makes some songs so good.  I don't like to compare it to SMiLE, partly because that would be unfair and also considering I like to hear the music in itself.

Heroes and Villains - 5/5
Vegetables - 4.5/5
Fall Breaks and Back To Winter (Woody Woodpecker Symphony) - 3.5/5
She's Goin' Bald - 4/5
Little Pad - 4.5/5
Good Vibrations - 5/5
With Me Tonight - 4.5/5
Wind Chimes - 4/5
Gettin' Hungry - 3/5
Wonderful - 4/5
Whistle In - 3.5/5

Which ends up to a 4 rating, which describes my thoughts fairly well I guess.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: shelter on March 07, 2008, 03:19:12 AM
Until a few weeks ago, Smiley Smile and Wild Honey were two of my least favorite Beach Boys albums... I don't know what happened, but now I just can't get enough of these albums. I've been playing the 2fer-CD once or twice every day for the past two weeks...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Alex on March 07, 2008, 02:59:15 PM
Smiley Smile kicks ass for just one reason: LITTLE PAD! :ohyeah


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Ana-Lu on April 16, 2008, 11:47:49 AM
The only for drawback about Smiley Smile (for me) is that "Good Vibrations" seems very out of place on it.  I know they had to include it.  In the days of cassettes, I threw in "You're Welcome" and "Mama Says" and pulled GV, and I liked it much more.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vega-Table Man on April 20, 2008, 09:43:23 AM
Smiley Smile kicks ass for just one reason: LITTLE PAD! :ohyeah

Oh yes indeed ... That has become one of my favorite BB tracks ever. Those sections with the hummed melody are to die for.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: BiNNS on April 25, 2008, 09:06:50 PM
this was the second BB album i ever bought. it was a confusing, bizarre listen...and i LOVED it. Up until that 1st listen, i had no idea that the beach boys were so "weird". 'getting hungry' is the only low point on the album for me. i don't know if i'm the only one, but i actually prefer the smiley version of vega-tables over the SMiLE version.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: lance on May 01, 2008, 03:12:19 AM
Hmmm...Getting Hungry is one my favorite songs on the album. I love that organ.

Having just heard the CD for the first time, I think it might be my favorite BB's album, or in the top five anyway. She's Going Bald me is ridiculously dated, but hte rest of it literally sounds fresher and more modern than even the original Smile recordings(which are brilliant and timeless but have a sort of sixties thing going).

I love the minimalism of it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Poprocks on June 13, 2008, 10:15:35 PM
Wow.... just... wow.  It's hard to compare this with Sounds since it's so different, but they're both absolutely terrific records.  From a technical standpoint, going song-by-song, I'd say this is more like a high 4.5 to me because of Gettin' Hungry.  But hell, I can fully tolerate that song.  And as a whole, I absolutely love this record.  It has influenced me so much as a musician.  Truly underrated and under-appreciated (not so much by you folks, but by the "general population" :-)

I've played She's Goin' Bald so many times that it has forever skewed my brother's last.fm statistics.

5 stars.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: carl r on August 07, 2008, 12:43:51 AM
As I was familiar with the BWPS tracks before I heard this album I tend to discount them. Certainly I think the live DVD version of Smile contains some of the definitive versions of these - perhaps with the exception of windchimes, which is a  brooding presence here on smiley smile, rather than being digitalised and perhaps a bit too clean.

Overall, the album lacks a bit of swagger and groove. Wild Honey sort of compensated afterwards. The vibe is a wrecked-out kind of calm. Half the songs are like incantations. The fundamentalist Christians who see the Beach Boys as a Satanic influence would be able to make this their first article of evidence. Especially if you spiked them first. Not sure if anyone knows of a Daevid Allen album, "The Death of Rock"... with the same sparse organ accompaniment.

What is inimitable though, are the tunes, which at their best (Little Pad, Whistle In, With Me Tonight) sound like works of effortless brilliance. That's what genius is, I guess. The lack of overall momentum can make the album seem a bit ponderous. But I'd give it a 5, as it's drenched in something very special.  classic, understated psychedelia


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on August 07, 2008, 03:33:56 AM
The only for drawback about Smiley Smile (for me) is that "Good Vibrations" seems very out of place on it.  I know they had to include it.  In the days of cassettes, I threw in "You're Welcome" and "Mama Says" and pulled GV, and I liked it much more.
You know how when you listen to an album so much you know the sequence of all the songs and when a song from an album ends you hear the next one in your head, even if it doesn't play?

I never really listened to Good Vibrations until I got Smiley Smile (my third Beach Boys album, after Pet Sounds and Little Deuce Coupe, and the first one that made me a fan). So now, whenever I'm listening to radio or a compilation or something, and I'm listening to the studio version of Good Vibrations, and it ends, the first thing I hear in my head is "On and on she go, dumby doo da, on and on she go dumby doo". Whenever I think of Good Vibrations, it's in the context of it being a Smiley Smile album track.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on August 07, 2008, 03:34:56 AM
By the way, I wish I could change my vote. I gave this a 3, it's definitely at least a 4.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: The Heartical Don on August 18, 2008, 10:15:07 AM
5. No other rating is possible. It's weird, one of a kind, totally sui generis, as my postman said. I recall spinning a cassette of it on a hot summer day in the garden of my parents' house. My brother and I were sharing a beer. I never used marijuana, but this album made any psychoactive substance of that kind redundant anyway.
It is often wrongly described as a lesser, inferior sibling of the real deal. Which is nonsense. It exists in another universe. Songs like 'Wind Chimes' give you an eerie sense of hotness, laziness, claustrophobia, being somehow oppressed. And in this sense it's the dark side of 'In My Room' - two snapshots from the same life, expressing similar feelings. No so nice feelings.
Some tracks are minor ones. 'Getting Hungry' does not impress me that much. Same for 'Whistle In'.
But that does not subtract from its merits on the whole.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Poprocks on August 18, 2008, 08:37:37 PM
The other day, I was in the car with my dad (he hates BB/BW) and I decided to pop this CD in... he was truly weirded out by it.  At the end I said "Yeah... only the fans like this record," to which he responded, "True."

Ha ha ha..... oh well, I'm glad a lot of "normal" people don't like it - it makes the record more special to us weirdos.... right?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: The Heartical Don on August 19, 2008, 10:00:18 AM
The other day, I was in the car with my dad (he hates BB/BW) and I decided to pop this CD in... he was truly weirded out by it.  At the end I said "Yeah... only the fans like this record," to which he responded, "True."

Ha ha ha..... oh well, I'm glad a lot of "normal" people don't like it - it makes the record more special to us weirdos.... right?

...is a good point. Like lots of 'normal' people don't like Van Gogh paintings ('a child could do that too'). IMHO Smiley Smiley is a piece of art. Not easy art; not always fitting the situation. A bit like Charles Ives, in fact.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on April 07, 2009, 03:48:15 PM
This record is completely, totally, 101%, positively, incredibly, terrifically, utterly, honestly, physically, morally, psychologically, economically, technically, theologically, anatomically, automatically, and brilliantly insane. 5.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: sofonanm on April 07, 2009, 09:40:26 PM
The only for drawback about Smiley Smile (for me) is that "Good Vibrations" seems very out of place on it.  I know they had to include it.  In the days of cassettes, I threw in "You're Welcome" and "Mama Says" and pulled GV, and I liked it much more.
You know how when you listen to an album so much you know the sequence of all the songs and when a song from an album ends you hear the next one in your head, even if it doesn't play?

I never really listened to Good Vibrations until I got Smiley Smile (my third Beach Boys album, after Pet Sounds and Little Deuce Coupe, and the first one that made me a fan). So now, whenever I'm listening to radio or a compilation or something, and I'm listening to the studio version of Good Vibrations, and it ends, the first thing I hear in my head is "On and on she go, dumby doo da, on and on she go dumby doo". Whenever I think of Good Vibrations, it's in the context of it being a Smiley Smile album track.

Totally agree.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: the captain on April 08, 2009, 06:23:38 PM
A bit like Charles Ives, in fact.
Except way, way, way, way, way worse.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Menace Wilson on May 01, 2009, 01:30:41 PM
5 big ones from me.

After many years of ignorantly dismissing the BBs as simply a "surf" group, I took a chance one day and purchased Pet Sounds and the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey twofer at a 50% off clearance sale.  That day was the major turning point in my musical life.  I thought, "Any group that can record Pet Sounds, then turn around and do this...deserves some serious investigation!"  I wasn't aware of the whole story with Smile at that point, so I just accepted Smiley Smile at face value.  From the start, I thought it was a weird, beautiful, earthy, creepy masterpiece. 

Heroes And Villains- I love the rumbling bass organ in the choruses...brings to mind a gothic cathedral, and sets the tone for the creepiness to follow.  Love the dry, fragile, harmonized vocal parts.  To me, this is a very underrated rendition of H&V.

Vegetables- Rhythm section consisting of a badly played bass guitar (with flubbed notes left in) and a jug!  This is not your mother’s Beach Boys.  Great sound effects.  The last couple of sections/modules are gorgeous. 

Fall Breaks And Back To Winter- One of my favorite tracks on the album.  Brian Wilson as the phantom of the friggin’ opera.  Super weird.  Love the croaking vocals (?), the freaked out percussion, the woody woodpecker bits, and that omnipresent organ!  Love it more than Mrs. O'Leary's Cow.   

She’s Going Bald- Like this much better than He Gives Speeches.  That’s some janky old school pitch shifting towards the middle!  The boys are trying to be funny, but it's too late...the worm has turned.   

Little Pad- I put this on a comp that my wife and I listened to while on honeymoon in Hawaii, alongside Martin Denny, etc.  The hummed vocals and slide guitar are beautiful.  It’s like there are ghosts in this recording.

Good Vibrations- Greatness, of course.

With Me Tonight- My hands down favorite of the album.  There’s something so beautiful about this song that it gives me goose bumps.  After listening to the session tapes from Unsurpassed Masters, I realized that the “GOOD” bit was actually shifted over a bit so that it landed on the beat.  An edit, not an accident.  Fantastic.  And again, the organ blows my mind.       

Wind Chimes- Like bachelor pad music for Dr. Phibes to relax to.  Gotta wonder whether Wilson realized how creepy this stuff was getting.  The jarring SPLATTT!!! that happens late in the song definitely suggests that there is some heavy psychological drama at play here, that Wilson is deliberately f-ing up his own creations.   

Getting Hungry- Maybe others could have written a song like this, but nobody else could have delivered it the way this is delivered.  Think about the creative choices going on in this track.  Listen to the bit where it all comes to a halt, and then a slowed down voice sings “I’m getting hungry, hungry for…” and then a super high falsetto Brian comes in and finishes the line “MYYYY kind of woman!”  No surprise at all to find out that Syd Barrett was a big fan.   

Wonderful- Sounds like the song itself has been corrupted, soured.  A musical genius self destructing…repellant and thrilling at once.  It’s like Wilson is channeling the id of the southern California sunshine pop scene, forecasting the unpleasantness that would come in the following years. 

Whistle In- Another track that sounds like it was recorded deep in the dead of night.  After the fade the listener is left to wonder what the hell just happened.

Listened to it as I was typing this.  What a friggin amazing album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SmileySam on July 01, 2009, 08:13:22 PM
I'm not sure what to think of Smiley Smile....One thing is for sure...its their most NEATEST album. A couple of things I could do without would be the increasingly higher-pitched harmonies on 'She's Goin' Bald'. The first time I heard it, I didn't know what the hell to do or where the hell this was going for that matter. Another thing I dislike is at the beginning of 'Little Pad', there is laughing over decent backing vocals. Other than those 2 things, I think its a very interesting album and is enjoyable to listen to.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Aegir on July 15, 2009, 12:54:26 PM
The things you complained about are some of my favorite elements of those songs.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SmileySam on July 17, 2009, 11:28:11 AM
Love the harmonies on 'With Me Tonight'


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: sleeptalk on October 03, 2009, 12:09:46 AM
i think this record absolutely sucks. talk about failed potential...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Don_Zabu on March 26, 2010, 04:08:57 PM
I gotta ask: if the other Beach Boys thought Smile was too strange to unleash on the world, why was this okay to release?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: LetHimRun on April 02, 2010, 04:54:53 PM
In my playlists, I like to take out Good Vibrations and Heroes and place them in line for when they came out as singles (You're Welcome is apart of that for Heroes), so I use tracks 2-5 and 7-11 as "Smiley Smile." Going by that, I give it a 4. It still has some of the great moments from SMiLE, though some are diluted, but are still very good. Only a couple of places in it make me sit on the fence, but I can usually put up with those short instances and enjoy the album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: elchriso on April 22, 2010, 10:51:28 PM
I gotta ask: if the other Beach Boys thought Smile was too strange to unleash on the world, why was this okay to release?
Probably just got so fed up with a year's worth of recording sessions they just said "screw it" and recorded what they could with what was left of Brian's mind at that point as quickly as possible


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Don_Zabu on August 20, 2010, 10:21:22 PM
What's interesting to me about this album is that, even though the writing is sub-par and weird as hell, it still features harmonies of the Beach Boys still at their vocal prime. Makes for an intriguing combination, to say the least.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SmileySam on August 23, 2010, 05:13:30 PM
It's one of those albums that are in desperate need of a good bath in remastering. Same with Wild Honey.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Paulos on September 08, 2010, 03:02:05 PM
It's one of those albums that are in desperate need of a good bath in remastering. Same with Wild Honey.

Count Today! in for the remastering process, sounds so muddy at times its no wonder that 7 of the albums songs have had new stereo remixes done.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: rab2591 on September 08, 2010, 03:52:09 PM
It's one of those albums that are in desperate need of a good bath in remastering. Same with Wild Honey.

Ooooh! I would LOOOOVE to see a remaster of 'Wild Honey'....

I think a proper mono remastered 'Surfer Girl' album would be great too!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on September 08, 2010, 06:02:24 PM
   

Wind Chimes- Like bachelor pad music for Dr. Phibes to relax to.  Gotta wonder whether Wilson realized how creepy this stuff was getting.  The jarring SPLATTT!!! that happens late in the song definitely suggests that there is some heavy psychological drama at play here, that Wilson is deliberately f-ing up his own creations.   




See, having listened to the SOT sessions of this tune, the fact that Brian seems to have put the 'jarring splatt' to cover up a certain.... eff up of sorts makes it all the better.

I love Smiley Smile. A beautiful record, in all it's oddity.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: RadBooley on September 22, 2010, 10:08:15 AM
Please don't hate me for saying this but I've never really been able to like Smiley Smile all that much. I suppose it's just a matter of me listening to BWPS and many other SMiLE bootlegs for a solid 6 months or so before I finally gave Smiley a shot. Listening to the lush arrangements of the SMiLE tracks makes it sort of hard to appreciate the bare, low-fidelity versions in Smiley Smile all that much. Good Vibrations feels totally out of place in the album and Heroes and Villains doesn't seem to fit in very well with the rest of the material either.

I understand why this album came out but it doesn't make it any easier for me to listen to.  :(


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: ukulelejesus on September 22, 2010, 06:41:57 PM
I'd sort of given it a surface listen ebfore. Really giving it a thorough examination for the first time now.

Jesus Christ I can't believe someone let Brian record this.

That's what I usually think about a good Brian Wilson album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: ukulelejesus on September 22, 2010, 07:01:13 PM
This album is straight up Lovecraftian.

You can't rate it or any individual song except Good Vibrations with proper numbers that only have one value. You'd need some kind of non-euclidian compound meta-variables or some merda to put a rating on it. I heard this AFTER BWPS and even after SMiLE sessions and mixes so I'm familiar with all the sounds first. Holy merda, it's the thing that should not be. It's beautiful and messy and shitty and deliberately self sabatoging, decrepit, angellic, hilarious, evil, creepy, unpleasant thing. Everything you can say makes it good equally makes it bad. It's nothing at all. You can't listen to it without getting it. If you can't get it, which may not be your fault, it may be Brian's for being intentionally awful and alienating, if you can't get it it's clearly horrible, and legitimately so. If you can get it it's the most amazing thing. I wonder what it owuld have been like back in the days if you had heard Pet Sound, didn't follow the news and didn't know much ro anything about Smile, and then heard this.

It can't be evaluated because it's some formless ever shifting formless nameless thing.

I don't get how anyone can call this album half baked, because the mixing board was fucking high by the time they were done.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Cam Mott on October 06, 2010, 04:53:29 PM
I never much liked SS until I got to hear the raw tapes. The final mix leaves me cold for some reason.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on October 07, 2010, 01:43:32 AM
I don't get how anyone can call this album half baked, because the mixing board was friggin' high by the time they were done.

This should go on the sticker of the inevitable 50th anniversary reissues...  :lol


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dr. Tim on November 09, 2010, 01:45:25 PM
I heard this for the first time when it came out, as a young sprog knowing nothing of the recent tortured history of the band at that point.  It was billed as hippy-dippy-trippy, and who was I to say different?  That's how I listened to it for decades.  I loved the stoned humor of it all.

It doesn't need another remastering.  Mark Linnett did what he could with the HDCD version a ways back and I'm not sure it can be improved much.  It just sounds like that.  A stereo mix of the multi-tracks, stripping off all the old tape noise, would be a fascinating listen (suggested by someone above - Cam maybe?).  But no one will put it out, as no one would buy it besides me.  The "Hawthorne" "Vegetables" suggests what it might sound like.

Playing it recently, though, I must agree with uke's "Lovecraftian" tag to descrbe the effect of this LP all these years later.  From which follows my agreement with Cam that the whole thing sounds a bit cold -  especially now with my "studio ears"  I can hear the tape edits and other tell-tale signs of how it was put together at the time.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dunderhead on November 11, 2010, 01:10:27 AM
I have a vague understanding that smiley smile can never appear in stereo, Vegetables and Heroes and Villains being the two exceptions. It's been discussed many times that Good Vibrations vocal tapes were lost/destroyed. The way i've herd it is that all the vocals were actually done during the final mixdown of the album, meaning there are no vocal tapes for any of the songs. Vegetables being the exception as you can see on agd's site it was the only song recorded anywhere besides Brian's home studio, with vocal sessions being done June 3rd at Sound Recorders.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: branaa09 on November 14, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
Actually, Vegetables and Heroes and Villians were remixed in Stereo for the Hawthorne Legacy Set. As for Good Vibrations, the 8-Track Tape for the vocals is lost. The vocals weren't done during the Final Mono Mixdown. If you listen to The Carl Wilson Coda on Disc 2 of the Hawthorne set, you can hear a little snippet of the only available real Stereo Vocals. The "Ahhhh" part. It's kind of like a teaser, leaving you more of a feeling of how it would sound in Stereo. The Instrumental Sessions exist, but that's it unfortunately.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Myk Luhv on November 14, 2010, 08:48:26 PM
How in the hell do you manage to lose something so important like the vocal session tapes for "Good Vibrations" in the first place? goshdarn.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dunderhead on November 15, 2010, 01:24:24 AM
Actually, Vegetables and Heroes and Villians were remixed in Stereo for the Hawthorne Legacy Set. As for Good Vibrations, the 8-Track Tape for the vocals is lost. The vocals weren't done during the Final Mono Mixdown. If you listen to The Carl Wilson Coda on Disc 2 of the Hawthorne set, you can hear a little snippet of the only available real Stereo Vocals. The "Ahhhh" part. It's kind of like a teaser, leaving you more of a feeling of how it would sound in Stereo. The Instrumental Sessions exist, but that's it unfortunately.

yeah that's what I was getting at. All of the songs (besides Vegetables, Heroes, and Good Vibrations) had their vocals recorded during the final mixdown. The way I understand it that session was held during an all-nighter at Wally Heider's studio and all the vocals were added then meaning there are no multitrack tapes for any vocals besides those done for Vegetables and Heroes.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on November 15, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
How in the hell do you manage to lose something so important like the vocal session tapes for "Good Vibrations" in the first place? goshdarn.

The story goes, they were recorded at Columbia* studios, and thus stored where Columbia stored all their tapes - in a disused cinema in LA, apparently without much rhyme or reason. Sometime between 1966 and 1970, the building became full and they decided to just chuck out everything - I seem to recall they weren't too concerned about BB's tapes because of the poor sales they were making at the time... It's heartbreaking.

*Sure I don't mean Capitol? I mean, I thought Brian didn't like recording there, but I've got a little nagging thing which tells me I'm wrong...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on November 21, 2010, 12:00:32 PM
I have a vague understanding that smiley smile can never appear in stereo, Vegetables and Heroes and Villains being the two exceptions. It's been discussed many times that Good Vibrations vocal tapes were lost/destroyed. The way i've herd it is that all the vocals were actually done during the final mixdown of the album, meaning there are no vocal tapes for any of the songs. Vegetables being the exception as you can see on agd's site it was the only song recorded anywhere besides Brian's home studio, with vocal sessions being done June 3rd at Sound Recorders.

Even Vegetables and Heroes and Villains in their stereo remixes are missing parts on the original versions. So technically, they're not exactly TRUE stereo.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: drbeachboy on November 21, 2010, 01:08:17 PM
Even Vegetables and Heroes and Villains in their stereo remixes are missing parts on the original versions. So technically, they're not exactly TRUE stereo.
Can you explain further? Are there just missing overdubs that were done during the mono mix? Or, is part of the mono mix used in the stereo mix similar to WIBN? I think the former would still constitute true stereo, while the latter would be not so true.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on November 21, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
Even Vegetables and Heroes and Villains in their stereo remixes are missing parts on the original versions. So technically, they're not exactly TRUE stereo.
Can you explain further? Are there just missing overdubs that were done during the mono mix?

This. There's a keyboard part missing during the fade of Vegetables, and I can't remember what's missing from H&V.... it certainly sounds all there.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jason on November 22, 2010, 03:18:42 PM
In Vegetables, the vibes part during the end refrain (the Smile bit) is missing, as that was overdubbed during the mono mixdown during the Smiley sessions. In Heroes and Villains, during the "just see what you've done" bit, the organ is missing. And some of the vocals sound heavily Pro-Tool'd, especially during the "la la la la" bit when the vocals seem to flang a bit.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 23, 2010, 03:00:19 AM
Quote
And some of the vocals sound heavily Pro-Tool'd, especially during the "la la la la" bit when the vocals seem to flang a bit.

So I guess I wasn't crazy thinking I heard pitch correction used.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on February 02, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
Found an original mono pressing of this for £12 today! *dances a happy dance*


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Bleachboy on November 01, 2011, 09:09:57 AM
Really didn't like it at first when I new what the real SMiLE could have been. Now that I know, I think it's a good companion to TSS. I really like She's Going Bald, much more than He Gives Speeches. Wonderful is also great, exept the little harmonica-like sounds in the back, way out of tune. I really like the female vocals on "Won won wonderful" and I'm thinking about making that little tag the intro of Wonderful in my SMiLE remix (If I Pitch it up a seMi tone or entire tone and if I manage to isolate it with the help of lossless SOT 18?). Wind Chimes is terrifying, completely opposite feeling than the SMiLE version. I like the changing chord on the middle 8 too. Fall Breaks is really great because of the added vocals, the instrumental track really doesn't feel right though.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: wokka on November 15, 2011, 04:52:03 AM
i just love this album...and yet it took my a while to come around to it..oddly it was my young sons favourite, he loved all the weird .kooky,strange stuff, so it was the one we played the most..and now i just love it..there is no other album by anyone ,at any point that is quite like it..space out, weird,beautiful,psychedelic,waked out...and awesome...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Jay on November 21, 2011, 02:47:06 AM
When I first got Smiley Smile I hated it with a passion. I had been listening to the Smile part of the Good Vibrations box set for years, and was in love with Do You Like Worms and the Heroes and Villains outtakes. When I bought Smiley Smile, all I expected to get the best of the Smile "left overs". I wasn't as big of a fan as I am now, and didn't know much about the background of Smile and Smiley Smile. Over the next year or two I let the cd gather dust. Then for some reason I decided to break it out, and listen to this weird Frankenstein's monster of an album all the way through. I'm glad I did, because I now love it, and rate it as one of their best albums ever released.

Smiley Smile is one of the strangest, creepiest, most beautiful albums ever recorded. The beautifully creepy Fall Breaks And Back To Winter. The wonderfully weird version of Wonderful, with the weird organ(or was it piano?), and the almost whispered vocal. The rather off key female voices.  ;D The majestic "nah nah nah" interludes The strange laughing in Little Pad, and the seemingly random hawaiian section. The weird tape streching and sped up voices in Little Pad. The downright evil, sinister sounding Wind Chimes. My all time favorite part of the album is With Me Tonight. Carl's vocal is one of the most beautiful vocals of his career. The "good!" from the control booth is both hilarious and scary at the same time. The quiet section leading to the "ahhh" group vocal that raises and lowers is magical. Smiley Smile is one of the stranges things I've ever heard. The edits are sloppy as hell, and the music at times randomly changes direction. The group seems at times uninterested, and the whole thing sounds like a parody of what an album should sound like. I wouldn't have it any other way.  :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: smile-holland on November 21, 2011, 10:38:15 AM
Something totally else; I accidentally stumbled on this record last weekend at the Utrecht Record Fair:

http://www.cduniverse.com/images.asp?pid=7083179&style=music&image=front&title=Osibisa+%2D+Osibirock+CD

Apart from the cover art no similarities with the BB at all, but I found it funny to see that there were more artists that were fond of Hinri Rousseau's paintings. They even mention him on the back of the sleeve (according to the sleeve-info the painting is called "Negro attacked by a Jaguar" - apologies for the use of the N-word, folks).

(http://i40.tinypic.com/1zn9atc.jpg)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on November 21, 2011, 04:55:46 PM
smiley smile is better than love you :p


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on November 21, 2011, 05:00:40 PM
i love smiley smile, but i can certainly see why some people don't.  i think it's very understated, and of course far removed from pet sounds (and i'm sure at least a little bit of a disappointment for those expecting SMiLE).  nevertheless, i find it to be a very charming record.  i like the stripped down, unfinished feel of it.  when i first heard it i was fascinated.  this probably sounds stupid, but it really made me appreciate the beach boys vocal harmonies more than ever.  until i heard smiley smile all i'd listened to was pet sounds and friends/20/20 - but on smiley smile, many of the songs are just vocals accompanied by one or two instruments and they basically hold the songs together.  maybe this doesn't make sense, i don't know.  ;)

the only song on smiley smile i can't listen to all the way through is 'wind chimes'.  i actually really like the style of it, but it's just a bit too out of tune/'experimental' for me (not forgetting the evil/scary chord in the middle of it that makes me jump out of my skin every time i hear it).
the only song i can't listen to on there is "she's goin bald"


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on November 21, 2011, 05:07:04 PM
Smiley Smile is best appreciated when it's listened to in the dark. Seriously. Try it.
yes it's best in the dark and high.
pet sounds is best played in the morning with the curtains open. :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hapman on November 22, 2011, 12:09:04 AM
Smiley was the second BB album I heard (the first being Pet Sounds of course) paired with Wild Honey (1990 2 fer). I really loved Pet Sounds but Smiley Smile was the real beginning of my BW obsession, that was the first time I heard something I didn't expect at all from a mainstream 60s pop group. I found the whole thing kinda eerie, with lots of magical & weird wtf moments (Fall Breaks, the bridge of Wonderful, the scary noises in Wind Chimes, the sped up voices in She's Goin' Bald) - all this eerie madness and the unusually lo-fi production work affected me deeply - I felt like someone put my own emotional state on tape 13 years before I was born - I was quite young & naive back then you see. I read Leaf's notes in the booklet and that was when I learned about this thing called SMiLE. Then a few months later I bought the GV box set with all the original SMiLE tracks on it, and that was it - I was completely lost in a never ending BW obsession, started collecting bootlegs, making SMiLE mixes etc etc. Smiley Smile was my first really deep encounter with the wonderful world of Beach Boy music, so I have very fond memories of listening to it in my room in complete darkness. Oh, and I know that better versions/mixes of H&V have surfaced/been created since then, but for me nothing can beat the Smiley version with that massive Baldwin overdub on top of the whole thing. 5/5 definitely.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on February 20, 2012, 10:04:56 PM
5.

Smiley got me into the Beach Boys. So it's not Smile... doesn't bother me. I love it! I actually prefer She's Goin' Bald to He Gives Speeches. The Smile version of H&V doesn't have that terrific prominent 'dee-dee-dee-diddly-dee' hook at the end of each verse that the Smiley/single version does. The 'wind, whispering wind' chant at the fade of Windchimes likewise sounds better to my ears here. In fact, I love the Smiley takes on Wonderful and Windchimes just as much as i do the Smile versions (my favourite moment on the album is the first 'one-one-wonderful', when it sounds as if the band have all been inhaling helium). My only complaint is, funnily enough, Good Vibrations, which is just clearly out of place here.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on February 20, 2012, 10:06:51 PM
"In Fort Worth, Texas there is a drug clinic which takes people off the streets and helps them get over bad LSD trips. They don't use any traditional medical treatment whatsoever. All they do is play the patient our Smiley Smile album and apparently this acts as a soothing remedy which relaxes them and helps them to recover completely from their trip." – Carl Wilson, (1970)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on February 20, 2012, 10:13:19 PM
"In Fort Worth, Texas there is a drug clinic which takes people off the streets and helps them get over bad LSD trips. They don't use any traditional medical treatment whatsoever. All they do is play the patient our Smiley Smile album and apparently this acts as a soothing remedy which relaxes them and helps them to recover completely from their trip." – Carl Wilson, (1970)
he was joking right?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on February 22, 2012, 10:51:56 AM
Dunno. presumably they had to skip passed GV and Gettin' Hungry...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Menace Wilson on February 24, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
This album is straight up Lovecraftian.

You can't rate it or any individual song except Good Vibrations with proper numbers that only have one value. You'd need some kind of non-euclidian compound meta-variables or some merda to put a rating on it. I heard this AFTER BWPS and even after SMiLE sessions and mixes so I'm familiar with all the sounds first. Holy merda, it's the thing that should not be. It's beautiful and messy and sh*tty and deliberately self sabatoging, decrepit, angellic, hilarious, evil, creepy, unpleasant thing. Everything you can say makes it good equally makes it bad. It's nothing at all. You can't listen to it without getting it. If you can't get it, which may not be your fault, it may be Brian's for being intentionally awful and alienating, if you can't get it it's clearly horrible, and legitimately so. If you can get it it's the most amazing thing. I wonder what it owuld have been like back in the days if you had heard Pet Sound, didn't follow the news and didn't know much ro anything about Smile, and then heard this.

It can't be evaluated because it's some formless ever shifting formless nameless thing.

I don't get how anyone can call this album half baked, because the mixing board was f*cking high by the time they were done.
  I love this post.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on February 24, 2012, 04:02:26 PM
This album is straight up Lovecraftian.

You can't rate it or any individual song except Good Vibrations with proper numbers that only have one value. You'd need some kind of non-euclidian compound meta-variables or some merda to put a rating on it. I heard this AFTER BWPS and even after SMiLE sessions and mixes so I'm familiar with all the sounds first. Holy merda, it's the thing that should not be. It's beautiful and messy and sh*tty and deliberately self sabatoging, decrepit, angellic, hilarious, evil, creepy, unpleasant thing. Everything you can say makes it good equally makes it bad. It's nothing at all. You can't listen to it without getting it. If you can't get it, which may not be your fault, it may be Brian's for being intentionally awful and alienating, if you can't get it it's clearly horrible, and legitimately so. If you can get it it's the most amazing thing. I wonder what it owuld have been like back in the days if you had heard Pet Sound, didn't follow the news and didn't know much ro anything about Smile, and then heard this.

It can't be evaluated because it's some formless ever shifting formless nameless thing.

I don't get how anyone can call this album half baked, because the mixing board was f*cking high by the time they were done.
  I love this post.
the crazy thing is i heard pet sounds then heard of smiley smile i had no idead of smile :/..it scared the sh*t out of me but eventually grew on me now i love it :)...it has it's own place in their catalog


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: CanaanDavis on February 24, 2012, 04:35:10 PM
Smiley Smile is wonderfully dark.  It has a special place in my heart.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: rab2591 on February 24, 2012, 04:47:02 PM
I fall in and out of this album.

Somewhere on this thread/forum is a post where I praise Smiley Smile up and down......Sometimes I find it fascinating and beautiful - but other times it really does scare the hell out of me haha.

So I really don't know what to think of this album: which is why it is brilliant to me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Ovi on February 25, 2012, 09:01:14 AM
Sorry, but I really can't get into this one.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm sort of a 'new' Beach Boys fan, in terms that by the time I got a chance to explore their albums beyond 'Pet Sonds', the 2011 new and completed 'SMiLE' came out. Thing is, I don't ever see myself wanting to hear this instead of the actual 'SMiLE'. I like 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes' and 'Vegetables' a lot (the Smiley versions), but that's about it. We've got inferior 'Good Vibrations' and 'Heroes & Villains' versions and some decent songs with good moments here and there.

Now, I won't vote it a 1 or a 2 or a 3 because that would be ignorant from me (seeing that most people here tend to vote it a 4 or 5). I will give it a few more listens, but eventually I will shelve it and come back to vote it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Lowbacca on February 25, 2012, 10:22:39 AM
Sorry, but I really can't get into this one.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm sort of a 'new' Beach Boys fan, in terms that by the time I got a chance to explore their albums beyond 'Pet Sonds', the 2011 new and completed 'SMiLE' came out. Thing is, I don't ever see myself wanting to hear this instead of the actual 'SMiLE'. I like 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes' and 'Vegetables' a lot (the Smiley versions), but that's about it. We've got inferior 'Good Vibrations' and 'Heroes & Villains' versions and some decent songs with good moments here and there.

Now, I won't vote it a 1 or a 2 or a 3 because that would be ignorant from me (seeing that most people here tend to vote it a 4 or 5). I will give it a few more listens, but eventually I will shelve it and come back to vote it.
The SMiLE Sessions are not a "completed SMiLE" or even the "actual SMiLE". There won't ever be either. ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Ovi on February 25, 2012, 10:26:44 AM
The SMiLE Sessions are not a "completed SMiLE" or even the "actual SMiLE". There won't ever be either. ;)

You're right. The point was that whenever I convince myself to give 'Smiley Smile' a try, I end up listending to the 'SMiLE Sessions'.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Puggal on March 12, 2012, 10:49:42 PM
How can any sane person give this a five after the majestic Pet Sounds? It's good (and not much worse than SMiLE would have been, I'd argue), but certainly no FIVE.




Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on March 12, 2012, 11:22:06 PM
I give this a 4 when I first heard this it scared the sh*t outta me :/ I was afraid to check out the rest of their work but i love the rendition of the smile songs...I don't think its a abortion i think it's the cruel/evil/pain behind a pretty smile.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Paulos on March 13, 2012, 08:19:01 AM
How can any sane person give this a five after the majestic Pet Sounds? It's good (and not much worse than SMiLE would have been, I'd argue), but certainly no FIVE.




Because maybe some people hold an opinion that's different to yours?  ::)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on March 13, 2012, 12:16:37 PM
How can any sane person give this a five after the majestic Pet Sounds? It's good (and not much worse than SMiLE would have been, I'd argue), but certainly no FIVE.




That's a bizarre opinion. I don't rate Smiley Smile in comparison to Pet Sounds, I rate it entirely on it's own terms; and as far as experimental low-fi avant-garde pop goes Smiley Smile is a classic. Hence I gave it a 5.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Puggal on March 13, 2012, 09:22:37 PM
It really isn't a bizarre opinion. Taking both albums at face value, Pet Sounds is clearly superior; it has lush and cohesive production, emotional, relatable lyrics, and some of the most memorable pop songs of the twentieth-century on board.

I like Smiley Smile for its lo-fi production and quirky atmosphere (besides the dubious inclusion of Good Vibrations), but, taking it at face value, it is clearly not as good as Pet Sounds. But it is good.

There are days where I would give it a five, but I always remind myself how disappointed I was when I first heard it and how annoyed I am whenever Good Vibrations plays (I love that song, of course, but it's a sore thumb here).


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on March 14, 2012, 05:28:09 AM
It really isn't a bizarre opinion. Taking both albums at face value, Pet Sounds is clearly superior;

Yeah I'm going to stop you right there....  ::)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Puggal on March 14, 2012, 04:07:26 PM
U prob think that Holland is better than Pet Sounds 2!!!!! GOSH


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on March 16, 2012, 01:25:54 AM
U prob think that Holland is better than Pet Sounds 2!!!!! GOSH

There's a Pet Sounds 2?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: hypehat on March 16, 2012, 03:03:36 AM
U prob think that Holland is better than Pet Sounds 2!!!!! GOSH

I honestly can't believe I have to explain that one album is not 'clearly superior' to another as if that is a quantifiable statement with clear and irrefutable evidence. But then, this IS the internet.  ::)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: MBE on March 16, 2012, 03:49:10 AM
You know I was playing this for my soon to be wife and she seriously would like to play the record (I am doing vinyl of course) during the dinner! That's why I love her.  Great quotes at the bottom hypehat


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Puggal on March 16, 2012, 10:18:39 AM
U prob think that Holland is better than Pet Sounds 2!!!!! GOSH

I honestly can't believe I have to explain that one album is not 'clearly superior' to another as if that is a quantifiable statement with clear and irrefutable evidence. But then, this IS the internet.  ::)

Can u plz rite mi term papers 4 me. K thnx.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 16, 2012, 08:35:46 AM
After listening to the smile sessions, this album seriously messes with the listener by having songs hinting at the greatness that would have been smile in 1967.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Melissa on April 19, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Top 3 favorite Beach Boys albums


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on April 26, 2012, 01:05:24 AM
Anyone else prefer a lot of the Smiley Smile versions of the Smile songs to the actual Smile versions themselves? Or is it just me?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Manchini on May 01, 2012, 12:36:39 AM
I remember when I first heard Smiley Smile, and I was annoyed because I thought it would be spectacular, profound, because this whole Smile thing was supposed to be a big deal. And I just thought it was plain lazy.

Of course, it grew on me in no time.

First off, the album cover: it's one of my favorites of their whole catalogue.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. Heroes and Villains : Not my favorite version of the song, and not even a song I've ever been that excited about in the first place. But me being jaded doesn't make the song any less great. 4/5

2. Vegetables : Not a thrilling song, but a nice sonic experience. Crystal clear highs and mids and that huge bass sound; very earthy. 3/5

3. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) : Fun and eerie. Not a track I ever choose to listen to on its own, but when I do listen to this album I let it play as a whole, and it is an integral part of the album. 3/5

4. She's Goin' Bald : Always been one of my favorites. Reminds me of Hitchcock or Twilight Zone, or some similarly old, bizarre psych-thriller. Always enjoyed the ascending diminished chords in the middle section. 3/5

5. Little Pad : My favorite song from the album. Great mood in this little utopian island treasure ... I think the sloppiness only bothered me on first listen, years ago. Now it's just a part of it's liveliness. 5/5

6. Good Vibrations : The majesty of this one just doesn't make sense with the goofiness of the rest. That said, it's not jarring or anything. It actually follows "Little Pad" really well. 5/5

7. With Me Tonight : If "Fall Breaks..." is Hitchcock, then "With Me Tonight" is Capra. Great feel. I do wish this track was a little more fleshed out, I think. I feel that way about several on this album. 3.5/5

8. Wind Chimes : Simply not as good as the proper Smile version. Too slow. Still, I'd rather have both versions than only one. 4/5

9. Gettin' Hungry : Wish the organ wasn't so ear-shattering. It's a very cool tune, but I'd like it more in the Wild Honey style, more guitar and drum based. 3/5

10. Wonderful : Nowhere near as good as the Smile version. It's a funny scene (with help from the middle section), but too slow and breathy. 3/5

11. Whistle In : Perfect way to conclude. Love the chord structure, simple as it is, and the vocals. Like "With Me Tonight," I wish it was longer, maybe had another section or something. 3.5/5

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I like to imagine this album as something like Marty Robbins' Song of the Islands album. There's some kind of concept in here -- not intentionally, and not pretentiously -- but I mean strictly in my imagination when I reflect on all the times I've listened to the album. It's like an album about watching a collection of vintage short films. That's exactly the concept and imagery I've been meaning to ascribe to Smiley Smile all these years. Yes ... there it is.

4/5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on May 02, 2012, 02:30:32 PM
Tremendous collection of songs! Jolly love it! Surprisingly, it turned out to be the only album where I like all tracks! In other LPs there's often from 1 to 3 or more songs I consider weak. The biggest gems of crown: Wind Chimes, Fall Breaks (& Back to Winter), Good Vibrations, Whistle In. IMO. 
you even  like she's goin bald?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on May 02, 2012, 06:50:44 PM
,Yes. You know I never deal with the text in any song.  Music is more important, If I like melody then it's in my favorites.
what about the creepy sped up voices?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Quzi on May 02, 2012, 10:52:25 PM
What?! Are you high Newguy?! (Probably not otherwise you'd be appreciating Smiley Smile a whole lot more :lol) She's Goin' Bald absolutely slays  :rock

The first section's melody is super stellar, the lyrics are fun and not derivative, different voices are flying everywhere, the faux-50s commercial ending is just bursting with personality and IT REFERENCES goshdarn BLOWJOBS.

What the hell is not to like about this golden ditty?!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on May 02, 2012, 11:18:42 PM
What?! Are you high Newguy?! (Probably not otherwise you'd be appreciating Smiley Smile a whole lot more :lol) She's Goin' Bald absolutely slays  :rock

The first section's melody is super stellar, the lyrics are fun and not derivative, different voices are flying everywhere, the faux-50s commercial ending is just bursting with personality and IT REFERENCES goshdarn BLOWJOBS.

What the hell is not to like about this golden ditty?!
the sped up voices are very scary :O i love the beginning that's about it..i tried a million times and i just can't get into that song that for that reason.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on May 03, 2012, 12:56:18 AM
What?! Are you high Newguy?! (Probably not otherwise you'd be appreciating Smiley Smile a whole lot more :lol) She's Goin' Bald absolutely slays  :rock

The first section's melody is super stellar, the lyrics are fun and not derivative, different voices are flying everywhere, the faux-50s commercial ending is just bursting with personality and IT REFERENCES goshdarn BLOWJOBS.

What the hell is not to like about this golden ditty?!
the sped up voices are very scary :O i love the beginning that's about it..i tried a million times and i just can't get into that song that for that reason.
[/quote]

She's Goin Bald is my favourite song on the album. It's way better than He Gives Speeches. And the sped up vocals section is the BEST BIT!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: MBE on May 03, 2012, 02:28:07 AM
While Love You never really grew on me this has. I don't think it's near their best but it has a weird charm quite apart from Smile. I think Smile being put out really let me enjoy this more.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Amazing Larry on May 25, 2012, 01:15:41 AM
I remember when I first heard Smiley Smile, and I was annoyed because I thought it would be spectacular, profound, because this whole Smile thing was supposed to be a big deal. And I just thought it was plain lazy.

Of course, it grew on me in no time.

First off, the album cover: it's one of my favorites of their whole catalogue.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. Heroes and Villains : Not my favorite version of the song, and not even a song I've ever been that excited about in the first place. But me being jaded doesn't make the song any less great. 4/5

2. Vegetables : Not a thrilling song, but a nice sonic experience. Crystal clear highs and mids and that huge bass sound; very earthy. 3/5

3. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) : Fun and eerie. Not a track I ever choose to listen to on its own, but when I do listen to this album I let it play as a whole, and it is an integral part of the album. 3/5

4. She's Goin' Bald : Always been one of my favorites. Reminds me of Hitchclock or Twilight Zone, or some similarly old, bizarre psych-thriller. Always enjoyed the ascending diminished chords in the middle section. 3/5

5. Little Pad : My favorite song from the album. Great mood in this little utopian island treasure ... I think the sloppiness only bothered me on first listen, years ago. Now it's just a part of it's liveliness. 5/5

6. Good Vibrations : The majesty of this one just doesn't make sense with the goofiness of the rest. That said, it's not jarring or anything. It actually follows "Little Pad" really well. 5/5

7. With Me Tonight : If "Fall Breaks..." is Hitchclock, then "With Me Tonight" is Capra. Great feel. I do wish this track was a little more fleshed out, I think. I feel that way about several on this album. 3.5/5

8. Wind Chimes : Simply not as good as the proper Smile version. Too slow. Still, I'd rather have both versions than only one. 4/5

9. Gettin' Hungry : Wish the organ wasn't so ear-shattering. It's a very cool tune, but I'd like it more in the Wild Honey style, more guitar and drum based. 3/5

10. Wonderful : Nowhere near as good as the Smile version. It's a funny scene (with help from the middle section), but too slow and breathy. 3/5

11. Whistle In : Perfect way to conclude. Love the chord structure, simple as it is, and the vocals. Like "With Me Tonight," I wish it was longer, maybe had another section or something. 3.5/5

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I like to imagine this album as something like Marty Robbins' Song of the Islands album. There's some kind of concept in here -- not intentionally, and not pretentiously -- but I mean strictly in my imagination when I reflect on all the times I've listened to the album. It's like an album about watching a collection of vintage short films. That's exactly the concept and imagery I've been meaning to ascribe to Smiley Smile all these years. Yes ... there it is.

4/5
What's a Hitchclock?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Lowbacca on May 25, 2012, 07:13:20 AM
I remember when I first heard Smiley Smile, and I was annoyed because I thought it would be spectacular, profound, because this whole Smile thing was supposed to be a big deal. And I just thought it was plain lazy.

Of course, it grew on me in no time.

First off, the album cover: it's one of my favorites of their whole catalogue.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. Heroes and Villains : Not my favorite version of the song, and not even a song I've ever been that excited about in the first place. But me being jaded doesn't make the song any less great. 4/5

2. Vegetables : Not a thrilling song, but a nice sonic experience. Crystal clear highs and mids and that huge bass sound; very earthy. 3/5

3. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) : Fun and eerie. Not a track I ever choose to listen to on its own, but when I do listen to this album I let it play as a whole, and it is an integral part of the album. 3/5

4. She's Goin' Bald : Always been one of my favorites. Reminds me of Hitchclock or Twilight Zone, or some similarly old, bizarre psych-thriller. Always enjoyed the ascending diminished chords in the middle section. 3/5

5. Little Pad : My favorite song from the album. Great mood in this little utopian island treasure ... I think the sloppiness only bothered me on first listen, years ago. Now it's just a part of it's liveliness. 5/5

6. Good Vibrations : The majesty of this one just doesn't make sense with the goofiness of the rest. That said, it's not jarring or anything. It actually follows "Little Pad" really well. 5/5

7. With Me Tonight : If "Fall Breaks..." is Hitchclock, then "With Me Tonight" is Capra. Great feel. I do wish this track was a little more fleshed out, I think. I feel that way about several on this album. 3.5/5

8. Wind Chimes : Simply not as good as the proper Smile version. Too slow. Still, I'd rather have both versions than only one. 4/5

9. Gettin' Hungry : Wish the organ wasn't so ear-shattering. It's a very cool tune, but I'd like it more in the Wild Honey style, more guitar and drum based. 3/5

10. Wonderful : Nowhere near as good as the Smile version. It's a funny scene (with help from the middle section), but too slow and breathy. 3/5

11. Whistle In : Perfect way to conclude. Love the chord structure, simple as it is, and the vocals. Like "With Me Tonight," I wish it was longer, maybe had another section or something. 3.5/5

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I like to imagine this album as something like Marty Robbins' Song of the Islands album. There's some kind of concept in here -- not intentionally, and not pretentiously -- but I mean strictly in my imagination when I reflect on all the times I've listened to the album. It's like an album about watching a collection of vintage short films. That's exactly the concept and imagery I've been meaning to ascribe to Smiley Smile all these years. Yes ... there it is.

4/5
What's a Hitchclock?
That thing behind the old man:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt2kkyC49Y1qaqd0qo1_400.jpg)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: vandykepeter on May 29, 2012, 06:04:07 AM
The first Beach Boys related album I ever heard was Brian Wilson's "Smile" - and I loved it! Listening to that album for years before listening to Smiley Smile, I was shocked to hear Smiley Smile! How could the band abandon the magic of Smile and make Smiley Smile in its sted?

At first I hated it with a passion - it wasn't Smile! How could it even try to compete? But after listening to it for a while, at least two of the arrangements gained ground with me. I like the minimalist arrangements of "Wonderful" and "Wind Chimes". They bring out the wild and beautiful nature of the songs. "Vegetables" is also arranged in a very minimalist way, but it doesn't accomplish anything by being stripped down, because it didn't add anything to the mix. Ultimately it just felt like it's being "dumbed down". Unfortunately! It's so beautiful on The Smile Sessions and BW's Smile.

Ultimately it pales next to the Smile project. The pleasant moments on it brings it up to a 3. Considering how much worse they have put together, it's a fine album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: musicismylife101 on June 27, 2012, 03:55:51 PM
Harmonies are great on this! Is it just me or did everyone else have trouble identifying who sang what? At times they all can sound alike! Wind Chimes, Vegetables, Good Vibrations, Little Pad, Wonderful, She's Goin' Bald..... Screw "mainstream"! I like weird and psychedelic stuff!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Newguy562 on July 06, 2012, 06:28:32 PM
It used to scared me so much..it was so bizarre ..I look at Smiley Smile as Smile's mentally ill & evil little sister :) you might think it's strange but you gotta love it no matter what. lol(it just takes hell of time to get used to it and takes you to a dark atmosphere..i suggest you never listen to this during an acid trip lol)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Reddiwhip on August 24, 2012, 02:49:57 PM
I always like to tweak Smiley Smile / Wild Honey / Friends so that I get a more Hawaiian, more lush feel.  This tracklist also has some of the best chanting on record:

Heroes and Villains
Can't Wait Too Long
Little Pad
Diamond Head
Surf's Up (autumn 1967 demo)
Good Vibrations
With Me Tonight
Passing By
Let the Wind Blow
Whistle In
Cool, Cool Water (autumn 1967 version)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on August 24, 2012, 03:05:32 PM
I actually think it's worse when listening in an altered state. For a Beach Boys album, it's pretty 'dark' in spots.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on October 03, 2012, 12:25:06 AM
It is indeed an inferior product to what was produced for Smile but on its own merits, it is a 5-star album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: punkinhead on October 10, 2012, 12:41:13 PM
I always like to tweak Smiley Smile / Wild Honey / Friends so that I get a more Hawaiian, more lush feel.  This tracklist also has some of the best chanting on record:

Heroes and Villains
Can't Wait Too Long
Little Pad
Diamond Head
Surf's Up (autumn 1967 demo)
Good Vibrations
With Me Tonight
Passing By
Let the Wind Blow
Whistle In
Cool, Cool Water (autumn 1967 version)
Thanks for giving your self-made tracklist here, Reddiwhip! I'll definitely check it out! Good to see Can't Wait Too Long in your comp!
That's one hip album right there!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dr. Tim on November 28, 2012, 09:51:20 PM
I'd always liked this LP for what it was because I didn't know the backstory when I bought it in 67.  Just thought it was ultra-psychedelic in a lo-fi "Virgin Fugs" kind of way, with the big band numbers to give it heft.  Didn't they mean it to sound like that in the first place?  Well didn't they?

Once I heard it with more open ears, on better gear, I still loved it but I could hear something that left me cold, maybe Brian's couldn't care less approach.

But now we have the new mono/stereo remaster, which is why I'm back.  Maybe it was my older player, but the new HDCD mono master sounds fine, quite lush, not as cold and distant (as does the prior two-fer; maybe it's the same mono remastering).

But the stereo (with the exception noted below) is an absolute eye- and ear-opener for me.  I know a lot of the cognoscenti including Ian hate it.  But I like like like it in stereo.  I love things like "Vegetables", "With Me Tonight"  and "Little Pad" all spread out, with all the detail.  The greatest revelation is "Fall Breaks", which intrigues me again as a piece of music and not just a "Fire" rewrite.  I love the little cross-channel ping-pong stuff Mark throws in throughout; though done in 2012 it makes the whole thing sound even more like the summer of 1967. Warm and clean.  I will be playing this one a lot.  The fake stereo GV I can ignore if I don't play it with headphones.   Well they gave it a shot I guess. I do NOT hear the bad edits some claim, and I have A/B'ed the stereo and mono versions, and checked the LP too.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Manchini on November 29, 2012, 07:44:35 PM

What's a Hitchclock?

The god damned stupid fucking word filter. Glad my review was so interesting that the word filter's bullshittery was the only bit deemed worthwhile!  ;)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dudd on February 20, 2013, 02:33:56 PM
Really depressing album. The versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes here are just horrid when you compare them to the versions on Smile Sessions... I wouldn't say it's a terrible album but it's definitely uncomfortable to listen to. Even the classics like Heroes And Villains and Good Vibrations are kinda shrouded in the dark atmosphere the album creates. Gah... it's a tough listen.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Les Garçons de la plage on February 24, 2013, 10:01:12 AM
Time has only improved this album, probably not the most praised of its time during the late 1960s. And not depressing, what on earth is depressing about this album? Just listened to the stereo version at Spotify, hmmmm should I invest in an actual CD (I don't buy almost no records these days...)?
5/5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Heteronym on February 26, 2013, 08:54:40 AM
I love Smiley Smile.

Yes, maybe Brian was acting as if he couldn't care less, but there's more to it in the story. Why did he chose those arrangements, why those songs, who those voices? He had an ideia, a plan. Smiley Smile, at least for me, was never a random record. It means a lot and it's a great prove of Wilson's genius.

The biggest crime that Smiley Smile (did not) commit was not being SMiLe. If the fans can overlook this and face the album for WHAT IT IS they'll find an amazing piece of psychedelic music, full of incredible harmonies and sparkles of genius. The concept was too different than anything Brian had ever recorded. There is no use in trying to find the original Wonderful in the SS version, thus the latter should not be blamed in the comparison (can you guys imagine what it'd be like for the angelical Wonderful to come up with its harpsichord in the middle of Smiley Smile? It wouldn't work within the album). What, I guess, most people didn't get at the time (and a lot of them still don't) is that the whole concept changed. SS was never supposed to be SMiLe. Brian might as well have changed the name of the songs and given the album a different name (though I love the actual one), but he didn't, and the hype over the original Smile was a luggage too heavy for any other albums to carry.

Musical context often f*** things up. If SS hadn't come as a "replacement" or anything after months of expectation for Smile and maybe if Brian was together with the psychedelic musicians in the UK (of course the american fans who were Dancing, Dancing, Dancing and singing Wouldn't It Be Nice couldn't accept anything different than that), this album would get a lot more recognition. It's fucking awesome and goes to show how Syd Barret got nothing on the sunny, dumb and funny Beach Boys.

That being said, I of course understand the confusion Smiley must have caused at the time. But, oh, well, screw it! Screw the context. I'm listening to this thing 40 years after its released and sounds great. I don't care about "what Brian should have done to please the public of 1967" nor things like that. Musical quality is the most important thing and Brian would go on to record another two amazing albums that maybe didn't have any similarity to what people were listening at the time (Wild Honey and Friends). And thank God he did!

Smiley Smile is one the best albums of the 60's, as SMiLe itself would have been too, but in a different category. Maybe in a more "pop" category and everything, but that doesn't make it BETTER. They are so different. There is no use in comparing how one is beautifully produced and the other is a bunch of stoned guys playing in their living room. The concepts are almost opposites.

As for the tracks:

Yeah, I feel Good Vibrations shouldn't be there, but I can live with that because it's got that great weirdness into it. I found it incredible how the harmonies pretty much make the songs all alone. They carry the whole thing and it's great. Wind Chimes, Fall Breaks, Wind Chimes, Little Pad...maybe that was the BB's harmony at its peak. How can one not be blown away?!

On, and by the way, I've read some post talking about the Mutantes' first album. Yes!! If you like Smiley Smile, you'll love Os Mutantes. They are from Brazil and get a lot of praise in the UK (just like The Beach Boys! The hell with the "american band" stigma!)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Please delete my account on March 03, 2013, 12:28:12 AM
I love Smiley Smile.

Yes, maybe Brian was acting as if he couldn't care less, but there's more to it in the story. Why did he chose those arrangements, why those songs, who those voices? He had an ideia, a plan. Smiley Smile, at least for me, was never a random record. It means a lot and it's a great prove of Wilson's genius.

The biggest crime that Smiley Smile (did not) commit was not being SMiLe. If the fans can overlook this and face the album for WHAT IT IS they'll find an amazing piece of psychedelic music, full of incredible harmonies and sparkles of genius. The concept was too different than anything Brian had ever recorded. There is no use in trying to find the original Wonderful in the SS version, thus the latter should not be blamed in the comparison (can you guys imagine what it'd be like for the angelical Wonderful to come up with its harpsichord in the middle of Smiley Smile? It wouldn't work within the album). What, I guess, most people didn't get at the time (and a lot of them still don't) is that the whole concept changed. SS was never supposed to be SMiLe. Brian might as well have changed the name of the songs and given the album a different name (though I love the actual one), but he didn't, and the hype over the original Smile was a luggage too heavy for any other albums to carry.

Musical context often f*** things up. If SS hadn't come as a "replacement" or anything after months of expectation for Smile and maybe if Brian was together with the psychedelic musicians in the UK (of course the american fans who were Dancing, Dancing, Dancing and singing Wouldn't It Be Nice couldn't accept anything different than that), this album would get a lot more recognition. It's fucking awesome and goes to show how Syd Barret got nothing on the sunny, dumb and funny Beach Boys.

That being said, I of course understand the confusion Smiley must have caused at the time. But, oh, well, screw it! Screw the context. I'm listening to this thing 40 years after its released and sounds great. I don't care about "what Brian should have done to please the public of 1967" nor things like that. Musical quality is the most important thing and Brian would go on to record another two amazing albums that maybe didn't have any similarity to what people were listening at the time (Wild Honey and Friends). And thank God he did!

Smiley Smile is one the best albums of the 60's, as SMiLe itself would have been too, but in a different category. Maybe in a more "pop" category and everything, but that doesn't make it BETTER. They are so different. There is no use in comparing how one is beautifully produced and the other is a bunch of stoned guys playing in their living room. The concepts are almost opposites.

As for the tracks:

Yeah, I feel Good Vibrations shouldn't be there, but I can live with that because it's got that great weirdness into it. I found it incredible how the harmonies pretty much make the songs all alone. They carry the whole thing and it's great. Wind Chimes, Fall Breaks, Wind Chimes, Little Pad...maybe that was the BB's harmony at its peak. How can one not be blown away?!

On, and by the way, I've read some post talking about the Mutantes' first album. Yes!! If you like Smiley Smile, you'll love Os Mutantes. They are from Brazil and get a lot of praise in the UK (just like The Beach Boys! The hell with the "american band" stigma!)

well said.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on March 03, 2013, 07:09:58 AM
It probably has something to do with the fact that I find the Today! and Pet Sounds albums to be unmatched in Brian's catalogue. That's the type of material that I think suits him best.



Why can't you like both? It doesn't have to be one or the other.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Puggal on March 06, 2013, 12:17:27 AM
Really depressing album. The versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes here are just horrid when you compare them to the versions on Smile Sessions... I wouldn't say it's a terrible album but it's definitely uncomfortable to listen to. Even the classics like Heroes And Villains and Good Vibrations are kinda shrouded in the dark atmosphere the album creates. Gah... it's a tough listen.

This is exactly the way I feel when I listen to Smiley Smile. However, I love the claustrophobic atmosphere in all its dissonance.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Dudd on March 06, 2013, 10:31:49 AM
Really depressing album. The versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes here are just horrid when you compare them to the versions on Smile Sessions... I wouldn't say it's a terrible album but it's definitely uncomfortable to listen to. Even the classics like Heroes And Villains and Good Vibrations are kinda shrouded in the dark atmosphere the album creates. Gah... it's a tough listen.

This is exactly the way I feel when I listen to Smiley Smile. However, I love the claustrophobic atmosphere in all its dissonance.
I guess, but it's just... GAH! What it could have been, man....

Gotta say though, on relistens a few of the tracks are growing on me. She's Goin' Bald is very funny, despite the chipmunk noises (I've heard a few seamless mixes putting it with He Gives Speeches from SMiLE Sessions), and With Me Tonight has that gorgeous harmony going on.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Gabo on May 26, 2013, 05:35:53 PM
Smiley Smile is my second most played Beach Boys record. It's probably their second best collection of melodies, behind Pet Sounds. 5 stars



Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on June 05, 2013, 04:59:28 PM
This album was worth making just for With Me Tonight. I get such a sense of comfort and hope from that song....ever since I first heard it on the GV Box in the late 90's. Beyond my dumb words to even describe it. I close out my SMiLE mix with this song, the way I remember it closing out the SMiLE sessions on disc 2 on the GV Box.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mahalo on June 06, 2013, 05:49:51 PM
Does anyone know which vocals or parts in particular were sung or played in the swimming pool and bathroom, or were they all done that way?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vegetable Man on June 27, 2013, 04:03:03 PM
Back in my Junior High School Days, I was a huge Beatles fan. However, I was ready for something new to have on my iPod. At the time, I was only aware of the Beach Boys' surf/summer-fun music, but I was still willing to give them a chance. Then one night, while listening to "Good Vibrations" on YouTube, I noticed an interesting looking song in the suggestion box: "Vegetables". One listen and I was immediately hooked. After that, I looked up the album it was on. Something called "Smiley Smile". Then I learned the whole "Smile" story. I was intrigued. Then I started listening to other cuts, such as "Wonderful", "Gettin' Hungry" and "She's Goin' Bald". My friends thought I was going crazy when I showed them "With Me Tonight" and told them It was one of my favorite Beach Boy songs.

Even after the release of "The Smile Sessions", the album still holds up. There's hardly any comparison between the two albums. I have to be in a mood to listen to "Smile", but I can listen to "Smiley Smile" whenever I feel like it. You get a sense of intimacy when listening to the album, something that's lacking from "Smile". There's more charm to the record, as well. The underproduced sound that runs through most of the album is a refreshing change after the over-the-top production values of the mid sixties. This album stands alone as one of the prime examples of why i like The Beach Boys. It's hard to explain why I like it so much, but then again, a lot of the Beach Boys story is hard to explain.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Heysaboda on June 27, 2013, 04:08:22 PM
Back in my Junior High School Days, I was a huge Beatles fan. However, I was ready for something new to have on my iPod. At the time, I was only aware of the Beach Boys' surf/summer-fun music, but I was still willing to give them a chance. Then one night, while listening to "Good Vibrations" on YouTube, I noticed an interesting looking song in the suggestion box: "Vegetables". One listen and I was immediately hooked. After that, I looked up the album it was on. Something called "Smiley Smile". Then I learned the whole "Smile" story. I was intrigued. Then I started listening to other cuts, such as "Wonderful", "Gettin' Hungry" and "She's Goin' Bald". My friends thought I was going crazy when I showed them "With Me Tonight" and told them It was one of my favorite Beach Boy songs.

Even after the release of "The Smile Sessions", the album still holds up. There's hardly any comparison between the two albums. I have to be in a mood to listen to "Smile", but I can listen to "Smiley Smile" whenever I feel like it. You get a sense of intimacy when listening to the album, something that's lacking from "Smile". There's more charm to the record, as well. The underproduced sound that runs through most of the album is a refreshing change after the over-the-top production values of the mid sixties. This album stands alone as one of the prime examples of why i like The Beach Boys. It's hard to explain why I like it so much, but then again, a lot of the Beach Boys story is hard to explain.

To me there is a direct line from Smiley Smile to Vampire Weekend.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Vegetable Man on June 27, 2013, 06:12:56 PM
Back in my Junior High School Days, I was a huge Beatles fan. However, I was ready for something new to have on my iPod. At the time, I was only aware of the Beach Boys' surf/summer-fun music, but I was still willing to give them a chance. Then one night, while listening to "Good Vibrations" on YouTube, I noticed an interesting looking song in the suggestion box: "Vegetables". One listen and I was immediately hooked. After that, I looked up the album it was on. Something called "Smiley Smile". Then I learned the whole "Smile" story. I was intrigued. Then I started listening to other cuts, such as "Wonderful", "Gettin' Hungry" and "She's Goin' Bald". My friends thought I was going crazy when I showed them "With Me Tonight" and told them It was one of my favorite Beach Boy songs.

Even after the release of "The Smile Sessions", the album still holds up. There's hardly any comparison between the two albums. I have to be in a mood to listen to "Smile", but I can listen to "Smiley Smile" whenever I feel like it. You get a sense of intimacy when listening to the album, something that's lacking from "Smile". There's more charm to the record, as well. The underproduced sound that runs through most of the album is a refreshing change after the over-the-top production values of the mid sixties. This album stands alone as one of the prime examples of why i like The Beach Boys. It's hard to explain why I like it so much, but then again, a lot of the Beach Boys story is hard to explain.

To me there is a direct line from Smiley Smile to Vampire Weekend.

Most definitely.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: scooby1970 on July 01, 2013, 06:32:18 AM
For years I tried to love this album, after all, with "Heroes And Villains" and "Good Vibrations" on it (and of course "Vegetables") it had to be a good album. It grew on me over the decades of listening, and then I bought the Stereo re-release on CD and it's become an all-together different monster and I just can't stop playing it. A 4/5 for me now, so much has opened up now it's in stereo.

:) Mark


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Amazing Larry on July 10, 2013, 12:43:54 AM
Does anyone know which vocals or parts in particular were sung or played in the swimming pool and bathroom, or were they all done that way?
The beginning of "Little Pad" sounds like it was recorded in the shower just after a bong sesh.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Orange Crate Art on July 11, 2013, 07:13:56 AM
Even though I consider Pet Sounds their best album of the 1960's, I like Smiley Smile best for some reason. I've worn-out several copies of Smiley Smile. I love how it's hardly 'produced', it's just 'recorded'. Yes it's a bizarre album. Yes lots of people were dissapointed by it. Yes it's short and basic and spooky sounding. But it works on so many levels for me. And the vocals are just amazing in many areas (Little Pad, With Me Tonight). Not an album to surf to...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: BeHereInTheMorning on July 11, 2013, 05:36:03 PM
An inside the park home run.

4.6, rounding it up to 5.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: bluesno1fann on August 30, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
Another album that never quite grew on me.
But I do agree it's quite a piece of work.
I would still take the Smile Sessions over this anyday, however
I am a fan of "Gettin' Hungry"!
3 out of 5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: RiC on November 17, 2013, 07:46:47 AM
Highly underrated album, but it's not perfect. I prefer Smile Sessions over Smiley.

1. Heroes and Villains : 5/5. Masterpiece and a classic version, maybe not the best but still a classic.
2. Vegetables : 4/5. Smile Sessions version is better.
3. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) : 4/5. Underrated! I find this piece very scary!
4. She's Goin' Bald : 5/5. Classic! Makes me laugh every time.
5. Little Pad : 5/5. Another perfect one. I love the Hawaii feel.
6. Good Vibrations : 5/5. This doesn't really belong on this album, but it's still a perfect song. BUT the full version from Smile Sessions is better.
7. With Me Tonight : 4/5. Great one!
8. Wind Chimes : 4.5/5. Scary as hell!
9. Gettin' Hungry : 5/5. So cool! Love it :)
10. Wonderful : 4/5. Great song but I'm not that big of a fan of Wonderful. I prefer Wind Chimes.
11. Whistle In : 4/5. Genius and a funny closer.

4/5 for the whole thing. If they could've somehow dropped Good Vibrations and added couple more "weird tracks", I'd consider 5/5 rating.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: punkinhead on November 17, 2013, 08:12:24 PM
I've plugged the 1967 rehearsal in Hawaii of Good Vibrations for the Hawthorne CA album and took out the studio cut of GV on Smiley, it seems to fit better for my way of living.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 12, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
If you grew up in that time this LP was a disappointment .. After watching BW do Surfs Up on TV + all the hoopla + magazine articles + hype Jeez this was a letdown.  A very strange LP that takes warming up to .. Do I like it.. ? Yes.. 4/5.. BUT.. When the SMILE boots started comin out in 80's and the 93 box set stuff + the 1988 compilation came out + Vigotone + SOT stuff  + the Smile box set 2011.. I don't think ive listened to this LP since the early 90"s .. All the Definitive stuff from Smile is on those so this LP is Charming at best..  Inventive + Harmless Smiley Smile is to me.. The MEAT is somewhere else.. Back in 67 this LP made you scratch your head..?


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: slippingonthrough on February 20, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
The Most Strangest Follow-up Album in history.
This album is a bit too weird for me. The version of Heroes and Villains on this is not as good as the one on the SMiLE Sessions. Good Vibrations is just simply out of place. The other songs sound like they're trying to annoy their record company.  On the upside there are some great harmonies and melodies on here.

3 Stars

I find it weird how popular this topic is. It's more popular than Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on June 17, 2014, 12:38:38 AM
This ones tricky. Definitely not the horrible album some make it out to be, but it's not perfect either. It's certainly a work of art, just as innovative and cool as SMiLE wouldve been, but in a totally different style. Then again, that's the issue--this album has always been, and most likely always will be compared to the greatest album never released. And because of that, its contemporary and historical reputation has unfairly suffered.

I admit, when I first listened to it I was massively disappointed. I'd heard it was a stripped down version of this legendary, amazing album that had been scrapped. When I heard this, I couldn't help but think "really...that's it?" but further listenings and research into the SMiLE/Smiley sessions gave me a deeper appreciation for it. I now respect it as an essential piece of the SMiLE puzzle (I think a lot of the zany ideas here reflect some of the plans for SMiLE) and as its own standalone album.

It took serious guts to release this in the peak of the psychedelia/production race. In a way, Brian was still way ahead of his time, beating everyone to the "back to basics" approach. It's just he was so far ahead, no one appreciated it at the time.

While I think it was a mistake to do this album and not stick it out with the original SMiLE project, now that we have TSS it's much easier to judge the two separately (maybe if Smiley's title wasn't a callback itself tho, it'd be even easier...) I took off one star because Good Vibes absolutely doesn't fit and ruins the otherwise cohesive flow of the music. While I think they're inferior to their SMiLE counterparts, the rerecorded Wonderful, Wind Chimes, etc still sound awesome. 4/5


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Little Pad on August 23, 2014, 05:08:26 PM
4/5, would be a 5/5 if it didn't have H&V and GV (both songs are great, don't get me wrong, but they're just really out of place imo), and it doesn't seem like anyone else here's that into "Gettin' Hungry". The rest is great though, even if it takes a while to grow on you. I think I might actually like the version of "Wind Chimes" on Smiley better than the Smile version.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Please delete my account on August 25, 2014, 01:30:52 AM
@Little Pad: I love Getting Hungry, and you're far from alone in preferring the Smiley version of Wind Chimes. The Smile version (particularly that big wordless chorus) is much too jarring and bombastic. In an ideal world, Brian would have finished Smile when he was good and ready by which point Wind Chimes would have reached its calm and soothing ("Smiley smile") final state and the original bassline/general musical idea would have found a happy home in Can't Wait Too Long.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Little Pad on August 26, 2014, 03:40:47 PM
and it doesn't seem like anyone else here's that into "Gettin' Hungry".
You mean to say you're dependent on others' opinions? Or is it an odd phrasing?

Phrased it weird, oops. What I mean is that I don't dig it, and I noticed a lot of others don't either.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mr. Verlander on August 29, 2014, 06:28:26 AM
Part of the appeal for me is that you feel like you're right in Brian's living room when they're doing it.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: KDS on April 13, 2015, 07:55:12 AM
I know a lot of Brian fans like this album, but I'm sorry I'm not one of them. 

The only reason I give this one a three is for the inclusion of Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations.  Plus, I do like Wonderful (even if I prefer the Smile Sessions version).  And, call me crazy, but I like Fall Breaks Back to Winter, with vocals from Fire. 

Other than that, I have to say most of this album is filler, and hardly the follow-up that Pet Sounds deserved. 

I know I'm in the minority, but personally, I think Smile is overrated, and I think the other Beach Boys should've stepped up to the plate sooner to avoid the band falling out of the public eye. 

I think this is, by far, the worst Beach Boys album of the 1960s, and the worst during their creative years (62-73).   

I think Wind Chimes on this is pretty tough to listen to, and I've never been a fan of any version of Vegatables.  (Although I prefer to hear Paul McCartney eating celery than doing music with Kanye West). 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: undercover-m on May 06, 2015, 09:43:28 PM
So I heard Pet Sounds playing in this cafe and ended up having a nice conversation about PS, except the guy said he was really only familiar with that and Endless Summer (which he said he wasn't as big of a fan of)... so I threw it out there that he should listen to Smiley Smile. Which I now think might have been bad because in that moment I forgot how WEIRD it is and just that I loved Vegetables and Heroes and Villains and... whoops. I'm not sure what albums you guys suggest to others when trying to get them into the Beach Boys? (I should have suggested the not-as-dark SMiLE.)

Also, I sense a disliking for Gettin' Hungry... but I personally like it. But again, I'm weird :)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Please delete my account on May 07, 2015, 01:01:10 AM
I love "Gettin' Hungry" too and everything else on this amazing album.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: KDS on May 07, 2015, 06:51:12 AM
I haven't actively tried to get anybody into The Beach Boys, other than my fiance.  

I would think it would be best to start with the early days and Pet Sounds to whet their appetite.  Then, ease them into late 60s / early 70s material.      Then, if they want to hear more, Smile / Smiley Smile.  If they're really really curious, then I'd tell them to carefully pick through the rest of the catalog, but advise them to keep their expectations pretty low.  

  


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: JK on May 07, 2015, 07:32:09 AM
I gave it 4/5 as I've never liked "Gettin' Hungry". I think it's because of the loopy verse----pity, because the organ sounds great. And it's a great album otherwise, after the initial shock (I bought it when was originally released).   


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: undercover-m on July 13, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
Pardon if this has already been discussed... but Smile was shelved, and yet a track as weirdddd as "She's Goin' Bald? made it on the record?

Also, I kinda like this song. It's funny, which blends into the smile theme I guess :P


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on August 15, 2015, 11:27:56 PM
Pardon if this has already been discussed... but Smile was shelved, and yet a track as weirdddd as "She's Goin' Bald? made it on the record?

Also, I kinda like this song. It's funny, which blends into the smile theme I guess :P

SMiLE wasnt abandoned for being too weird. It was abandoned because VDP quit, Brian couldnt or wouldnt finish the elements and wasted too much time noodling with the singles, the tinkering with said singles created gaps in the other songs he couldnt or wouldnt fill again, he felt he had missed the moment, he probably felt unworthy or unable to complete such a grandiose task, it would have been maddening to edit together back in those days, and... (on and on, etc etc)


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Bean Bag on September 01, 2015, 12:07:22 PM
Like Surfin' Safari -- Smiley Smile is an honest, raw album that could have only happened when it did.  Not necessarily a "product of its time" since that term is usually reserved for things that are merely repeating or echoing the trappings of the day (and often little more).  Smiley Smile is not that at all.  It's totally off the beaten path.  Boldly going where no one has gone before.

It might be the weirdest album ever made.  Dumb and scary, beautiful and corny.  It's low key and kind of tossed off -- and I can't imagine what people must have thought of it when it came out.  If I had a time machine...


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: JK on September 01, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
It might be the weirdest album ever made.  Dumb and scary, beautiful and corny.  It's low key and kind of tossed off -- and I can't imagine what people must have thought of it when it came out.  If I had a time machine...

Well, this buyer initially felt bewildered and, I confess, cheated. It took me several months to get over that initial disappointment but by the winter of '67 I couldn't get those strange songs out of my head. i still love this album. It has this wonderful and (at the time) quite unique intimacy, like the candle-lit scenes in Kubrik's Barry Lyndon... 


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Bean Bag on September 01, 2015, 08:03:52 PM
When I bought it, I had no preconceived ideas about what to expect.  So this was my reaction too.  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and I was quite angry.

Not too long after, it eventually became integral, inspiring and influential.  It's still pretty flippin' weird though!


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on September 03, 2015, 06:01:59 PM
When I bought it, I had no preconceived ideas about what to expect.  So this was my reaction too.  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and I was quite angry.

Not too long after, it eventually became integral, inspiring and influential.  It's still pretty flippin' weird though!

That describes my reaction fairly well too


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 26, 2015, 04:08:44 AM
1. Heroes and Villains : 5/5
2. Vegetables : 3/5
3. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) : 4/5.
4. She's Goin' Bald : 3/5
5. Little Pad : 4/5
6. Good Vibrations : 5/5.
7. With Me Tonight : 4/5.
8. Wind Chimes : 5/5
9. Gettin' Hungry : 4/5
10. Wonderful : 3/5
11. Whistle In : 2/5

The guys drop a cyanide pill on their career with this one. One of the most unique albums ever made by anyone and free from the flab from SMiLE's more pretentious moments. Wonderful pales next to the more developed version though.
Overall 4/5.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: TMinthePM on January 26, 2016, 02:51:44 AM
I posted the following in another thread but think it will be lost when that thread sinks from sight. Which probably won't matter to anyone, but it's my 2 cents worth on the subject. And by the way, the 2012 stereo version is a revelation:



I have, filed away somewhere, an article entitled “Smiley Smile is Smile,” written by I can’t remember who and don’t know when, but posted somewhere on-line sometime around the year 2000, plus or minus 4 or five years before or after.

OK, so there’s my bow to the citation gods, but what follows is not really about that article.

Well, yes it is, insofar as what I’m about here takes the idea that Smiley was not merely a poor substitute, but in fact a perfectly logical, internally consistent, culmination of the Smile project. And that as released was poorly mastered, improperly sequenced and, despite the fact that all the pieces were readily at hand, inexplicably incomplete.

An incomplete album, the pieces of which can now be brought together to reveal a coherent artistic statement, on a par with Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, which must remain the benchmark against which all others are measured.

Guitars have been almost wholly removed, producing a minimalist aesthetic that is nevertheless “musical” – these guys were not simply producing an aural account of their hash parties – although the sweet, dreamy aroma of hashish does indeed permeate

The 1967 production is muddy, the 2012 Stereo Remaster reveals, not a stoned out indulgence, but rather a masterwork.

Here then is Smiley as I believe it should have, and could have, been released:


 1. Well, You’re Welcome (Smile Sessions)
 2. Heros and Villains (2001 Stereo Mix) edit sections sequence from 1,2,3,4 to 1,3,2,4
 3. Wonderful (2012 Stereo)
 4. Gettin' Hungry (2012 Stereo) edit out 1st instru section to “I wake up in the morning…”
 5. You're With Me Tonight (Previously Unreleased)(Hawthorne)
 6. With Me Tonight (2012 Stereo)
 7. She's Goin' Bald (2012 Stereo)
 8. Whistle In (2012 Stereo)
 9. Good Vibrations (Concert Rehearsal) (Previously Unreleased) (Hawthorne)
10. Mama Says (2000 Wild Honey)
11. Vegetables (Stereo Extended Mix) (Previously Unreleased) (Hawthorne)
12. Wind Chimes (2012 Stereo)
13. Fall Breaks And Back To Winter (Woody Woodpecker Symphony) (2012 Stereo)
14. Cool, Cool Water (Track)/ Water [Stereo Mix] (Unsurpassed Masters)
15. Little Pad (2012 Stereo) edit out
16. Surf's Up (1967 Solo Version)(Bonus Track)(Smile Sessions)
17. Cabin Essence (Smile Sessions)
18. Cabin Essencence Tag (Unsurpassed Masters)

Running Time: 42:22


Well, You’re Welcome serves as a doormat greeting, inviting us to enter the Smiley reverie - and down the rabbit hole. Released as the flip-side to Heros and Villains.

Heros and Villains launches the listener off on a trip to the frontiers of the American psyche, circa 1967 and is thus perhaps best understood metaphorically. It’s start/stop structure has always bothered me, so rearranging the sections yields a nice flowing shuffle before introducing the music-box motif.

Carl’s whispering lead into Wonderful flows easily out of the dancing fade out of Heros as we turn inward, entering a kind of Alice in Wonderland scenario, with its veiled references and sexual allusions, the “god vibrations” interlude something like the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party.
 
Getting’ Hungry may have served as something of a joking jolt following the “whispering winds” on Side Two but when placed after Wonderful on Side One takes on a different, I don’t know, accent – Wood blocks over a repetitive whirligig organ line - tension and release, tension and release. Lop off the first section so the song begins with Mike intoning the words “Well I wake up in the morning…” The bass note that accompanies his first syllable is the same as the na-na-na-na-na that ends Wonderful. I see the claustrophobia of the work-a-day office world alternating with landscapes drawn from a spaghetti western – trippy.

You’re With Me Tonight “with a smile” provides a nice little break in the unfolding stream of melo-dramas, a peak of the band at work in the studio reminiscent of earlier such appearances. And, of course, the ensuing little ditty conjures visions of, how shall we say – oral contraception?
“On and on she go down-be-do-down – on and on you go.” Hmmm…

She’s Goin’ Bald – Psychedelic Coasters – what are they doing here I forget. Is it Little Egypt or Along Came Jones? I get dizzy just thinking of this tune.

Coming up for air - Whistle In – “remember the day-ay, remember the night-night, all day long” – WTF??? – what does it mean? Whatever, this sweet little chant bookends Well, You’re Welcome. Between the two are five boy-meets-girl songs, the standard subject of a pop-tune, all psychedelicized to reveal whole other dimensions of meaning. Hendrix said the BBs reminded him of a psychedelic barbershop quartet (quintet?) He must have been referring to Smiley.

The single most important change in this reconfiguration is the removal of the studio hit single version of Good Vibrations at the heart of the song cycle. The dry rehearsal in its place fits perfectly the minimalist aesthetic of the album, enlightening all that has preceded it and all that will follow. The boy/girl theme is elevated to the plane of cosmic consciousness – sex as the dance of the universe.                             

Mama Says’ childhood admonitions serves here as a grounding and short interlude between what might have been sides one and two had the album been fully realized.

Side Two leaves girl/boy concerns behind on a meander thru a Wonderland of psychic landscapes - The Elements. A 16 beat bass-note (from Hawthorne, appended here) provides a nice, and again, minimalist, intro to the suite – earth, air, fire and water - Vegetables, Wind Chimes, Fall Breaks and Cool Water. Lyrical content, such as it is, takes second place here to what can only be described as musical equivalents to impressionist paintings – gurgling, gulping, whooping, wavering, babbling, ornamental vocal filigree – interspersed, inter-cut and overlaying the barest of instrumentations – bass notes, woodblocks, bells. Who knew that Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (Woody Woodpecker Symphony) is in fact the legendary lost Fire from Smile, reduced to the flickering flame of a candle? And can anyone tell me the aural inspiration for Cool, Cool Water the purist of psychedelic vocal soundscapes? Was there an experimental “classical” composer working with such voicings whose work served as a model for these?

We surface, finally, within landfall and the refuge of a Little Pad “…in Hawaii,” but press on to the finale with, first, the portentous Surf’s Up, which pulls together, elevates and deepens all that has preceded, followed by the mysterious, majestic Cabinessence, which recapitulates and thus encloses all that intervened within the Americana theme initiated by Heros and Villains at the outset of the song cycle - a trip to the frontiers of the American psyche, circa 1967.

Nothing tops Cabinessence, which is perhaps the supreme masterwork in the Beach Boys’ catalogue.

Except perhaps a snippet of the fading vocal tag, minus vocals, that miraculously reveals a delicate Arabesque dancing as thru a window.

From all the above it can be seen that Smiley Smile was Smile, or the logical culmination of the experiments and explorations of the Smile sessions reduced to the barest minimum. The record suffered, however, by the fact that it was poorly mastered, improperly sequenced and, despite the fact that all the pieces were readily at hand, inexplicably incomplete.

To sum up:

The remastered 2012 stereo version of Smiley Smile reveals a beauty and delicacy that was lost or obscured in the muddy 67 release.

Of the missing pieces –

Well, You’re Welcome was complete, released as a flip-side but withheld from the album.

Good Vibrations rehearsal was in the can.

Alternate Vegatables was in the can.?

Mama Says is a Smile leftover released in this configuration on Wild Honey. But I’m not sure when this version was recorded.

Cool Water Chant is from the Wild Honey sessions, but hadn’t it first appeared during the Smile sessions.

Surf’s Up, from the WH sessions, works beautifully as a solo vocal/piano piece and took how long to record – 3 minutes?

Cabinessence was largely complete as the session tapes demonstrate, and might have been completed in relatively short order.

As for the sequencing – the record is a mess as released and thus incomprehensible. The addition of the missing pieces almost compel the sequencing outlined above to reveal – Smile - as it might have been.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: yonderhillside on February 17, 2016, 06:56:29 PM
Speaking of "Cool, Cool Water" - does anyone know the EXACT date when the "Water Chant" section from said song, as well as "I Love To Say Dada" was recorded? In AGD's session notes he has a session for "Cool, Cool Water" October 29th, which is after listed dates pertaining to versions 1 & 2, which I'm assuming are related to versions 1 & 2 according to Smile Sessions boxset (I could be assuming wrong). I've heard here and there that the "Water Chant" as we know it, from those songs, wasn't recorded until the Wild Honey sessions so I'm guessing this would be the earliest date of this song, aside from previously listed versions that do not contain that chant.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: JK on February 18, 2016, 06:39:49 AM
I have, filed away somewhere, an article entitled “Smiley Smile is Smile,” written by I can’t remember who and don’t know when, but posted somewhere on-line sometime around the year 2000, plus or minus 4 or five years before or after.

Is this it?

http://earcandy_mag.tripod.com/rrcase-2.htm


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 02, 2016, 12:48:05 AM
I will defend this album to my dying day. Not it's not Smile, it's not even Pet Sounds....it doesn't want to be either. Amazing vocals on this album - amazing because they were probably stoned when they did them! But also amazing because there's so little instrumentation around them...it's almost the Beach Boys acapella. Just brilliant stuff.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on May 28, 2016, 06:09:23 PM
I'm conflicted whether I prefer the stereo or mono version, because the stereo version is fantastic and really opens the songs up, but on the other hand it kinda gets rid of the low-fi charm of the mono version.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: Adult Child on February 06, 2017, 03:46:10 PM
I only rated it a 4 because Pet Sounds is a 5. So 4 in this case would be a classic. Pet Sounds is beyond classic for me.


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: The Loud Braggart on April 03, 2017, 11:51:59 PM
Can someone please quote the one message where a user listened to Fire (Mr. O'Leary's Cow) in her car when it started raining and the song seemed the go on an eternity? I like to read that one but I can't find it anymore in the pile of replies on this topic.
EDIT: It was on the SMiLE topic, sorry.
EDIT: I can't find it on BWPS either. :(


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: JK on April 04, 2017, 05:30:50 AM
Can someone please quote the one message where a user listened to Fire (Mr. O'Leary's Cow) in her car when it started raining and the song seemed the go on an eternity? I like to read that one but I can't find it anymore in the pile of replies on this topic.
EDIT: It was on the SMiLE topic, sorry.
EDIT: I can't find it on BWPS either. :(

It's way back in the BWPS topic. Aegir posted it on January 3, 2006: 

One of the first times I was listening to SMiLE, I was driving in heavy pouring rain. My destination was far off, however, I was feeling pretty confident I would get there safely and without any problems... until Mrs. O'Leary's Cow came on! The sirens, the moaning, the feeling of imminent danger! It seemed so long during that listen; I thought it would never end! I wanted to scream!

Just as I was pulling into the driveway, it ended. The ensuing sounds of the opening of In Blue Hawaii comforted me. After "Feel like I was really in the pink", I put my car into park, took out the keys, and walked inside.

5/5 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,35.msg3495.html#msg3495


Title: Re: Smiley Smile
Post by: lordshoggoth on January 09, 2018, 12:12:13 PM
This record made zero sense to me until I took a nap during the day while listening to it. Drifting in and out of sleep at different parts of the album feels like the way it was meant to be heard. Now it's in the top 5 for sure, even Gettin' Hungry which I have a strange affection for, and Woody Woodpecker which manages to take the already terrifying Mrs. O'Leary's Cow and make it even more spooky.