Smiley Smile

[Daniel S.]

On the Hawthorne CD they have a track of the Beach Boys doing Good Vibrations in Hawaii '67, and they're doing it Smiley Smile style and it sounds fucking awesome.

[Cam Mott]

Smiley is mostly the BB on instruments (or at least could be played by them in concert) and mostly Mike and Brian on lyrics.

Mike has only a credit for the [precursor/template-of-Smile] pre-Smiley "Good Vibrations" and a co-credit, along with Brian and VDP [though VDP claims no credit], on the Smiley "She's Goin' Bald"  and NO credit on the other 9 Smiley songs: another unexplained mystery of Mike's supposed complicity in the destruction of [and supposed jealousy over] SMiLE for the creation of Smiley.

Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?

[I. Spaceman]

Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?

I love ya Cam, but don't you ever get tired? At least you've amended it to music/instrumentation this time.

[Cam Mott]

I love ya Cam, but don't you ever get tired?

Back at ya on both counts.

At least you've amended it to music/instrumentation this time.

Just trying to stick to the topics. Can you point out any?

[Jeff Mason]

Can anyone point out where any of the Beach Boys have complained about any of the SMiLE music or the SMiLE arrangements or instrumentation?

Can anyone point to ANY quotes other than quickies for teen mags (I mean the famous Denny one) where the BB say ANYTHING about Smile or Smiley in 1967?  Other than the radio interview Ian alluded to earlier which really says nothing. 

Thought so.

Cam, that sword cuts both ways.  Any BB quotes you have are after the fact, once it was obvious that they made a mistake as a group in not releasing Smile.  I would take any quotes with a grain of salt either way after 1967.  And let's leave it here because we have already proven that none of us will change your mind and you probably won't change ours either.

[Cam Mott]

Can anyone point to ANY quotes other than quickies for teen mags (I mean the famous Denny one) where the BB say ANYTHING about Smile or Smiley in 1967?  Other than the radio interview Ian alluded to earlier which really says nothing. 
 

Thought so.

Here are a few:

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966


Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”

“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67

Cam, that sword cuts both ways.  Any BB quotes you have are after the fact, once it was obvious that they made a mistake as a group in not releasing Smile.  I would take any quotes with a grain of salt either way after 1967.  And let's leave it here because we have already proven that none of us will change your mind and you probably won't change ours either.

See above re. after-the-fact. If we observe your restrictions we will have almost nothing to go on because almost all quotes from everyone involved are after the fact; I personally don't agree with your restrictions or assessment of their credibility. 

You leave it where you wish and I don't expect you to change your mind but you may if you decide to.

[Jeff Mason]

Cam first posts:

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966

Since this was obviously done during the Euopean tour, it doesn't quite capture the period well enough, since most of the issues that were supposed to have happened were in December and beyond.

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

OK, that is one.  But of all of the BB involved and all of the supposed fighting, I would argue that Al was most likely of the original band to have liked it.  If you were to have said that Al liked it, I would not find it hard to agree with you.

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”
“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Very vague and non-specific.  Sounds like he is trying to tow the company line.  No reference to specific Smile music.  You have one with Al, but not with Mike.


Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67

I don't think anyone ever argued that Bruce hated Smile.  But Bruce's opinion didn't really count yet, did it?

The main people who were said to have been opposed were Mike and Carl.  You have one vague Mike quote.

See above re. after-the-fact. If we observe your restrictions we will have almost nothing to go on because almost all quotes from everyone involved are after the fact; I personally don't agree with your restrictions or assessment of their credibility. 

You leave it where you wish and I don't expect you to change your mind but you may if you decide to.

That's my point.  All we have are considered after-the-fact quotes.  And the BB have not been consistent in their stories since then.  You make it sound like Mike has always been a Smile cheerleader, and yet that simply isn't true.  When we give you quotes that show he disliked it, you pull out some other quote that says Yes he did.  I would argue that once their popularity hit bottom and it was obvious that they made a mistake, it would have been foolish to have said that they hated Smile.  So all non-contemporary quotes (and you just admitted that there aren't that many and none are that useful either way) must be considered with that in mind and the greater evidence considered.  The greater evidence to everyone but you, when factoring in the views of all others who were there on the outside, was that there was significant resistance to the lyrics of Smile at the very least.

Cam, I used to think like you.  I believed that Smiley WAS Smile, that Brian just changed his mind and that was that.  After hearing Smile, seeing Beautiful Dreamer, and reading the 1969 Vosse interview, I just can't maintain that anymore.  Smile as finished was just too good, and I think that Brian knew it could be in 1967.  Certainly Smiley WAS a choice by Brian, certainly Brian was the one who junked Smile, but to say that Mike and maybe Carl weren't influences on that decision is short sighted.  As were drugs and issues that Brian had with VDP.  I suspect that VDP had issues with multiple BB.  I can grant you ground on those if you can admit that maybe, just maybe, Mike had some serious issues with the lyrics and was upset that he was shut out on two straight projects.

[I. Spaceman]

Great job, Jeff.

[Cam Mott]

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”  Nov 19 1966

Since this was obviously done during the Euopean tour, it doesn't quite capture the period well enough, since most of the issues that were supposed to have happened were in December and beyond.

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

OK, that is one.  But of all of the BB involved and all of the supposed fighting, I would argue that Al was most likely of the original band to have liked it.  If you were to have said that Al liked it, I would not find it hard to agree with you.

Hasn’t Al been lumped in with the haters by Brian recently?  Al says he was humiliated by singing the animal noises on H&V doesn’t he?

By the time of the first quote Al had sung on GV, WC, HOR/CE, CIFOTM, IIGS, Wonderful plus Prayer and IR, over half of the album, by the time of the 2nd quote he had also sung DYLW, MOS, SU and H&V.

Mike Love: “’Good Vibrations’ put us back in the spotlight. Now we’re in again.”
“Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks.” “That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months.
Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggerred. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.” Jan 7 1967

Very vague and non-specific.  Sounds like he is trying to tow the company line.  No reference to specific Smile music.  You have one with Al, but not with Mike.

Brian has done “more and more and greater and greater things” up to January 7 but that is vague? Well, I disagree, this seems plainly spoken and inclusive and shows support for Brian and Brian’s new music including SMiLE.

Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”  May 7 67

I don't think anyone ever argued that Bruce hated Smile.  But Bruce's opinion didn't really count yet, did it?

Hasn’t Bruce also claimed humiliation at their treatment by Brian in singing the animal noises; does that [and Al’s complaint over the same thing] show sensitivity or insensitivity to Bruce’s/group opinion?

The main people who were said to have been opposed were Mike and Carl.  You have one vague Mike quote.

Brian has widened that circle considerably recently but maybe we shouldn’t consider that as it is so after-the-fact.

As to the rest of it, we just can’t agree I guess.  You ask for and decry the lack of contemporaneous narratives, they are provided, as have other been, and they are dismissed as illegitimate.  Where are the contemporaneous statements about disliking the SMiLE music?

After the fact narratives are suspect but 4-decades-after-the-fact narratives should be accepted as revelatory?  You will have to help me out with how the Boys’ statements about SMiLE have been inconsistent or contradictory, only contradictions in Brian’s statements spring to mind.

Imo, somehow the Boys’ concerns and opinions have not been seen as legitimate professional, constructive and creative criticism; an entitlement of being part of the group. The greater evidence shows me that the Boys had a few opinions and concerns which they expressed about the SMiLE album that they supported and admired [even when Brian didn’t] and those few opinions and criticisms were either ignored/dismissed by Brian or the Boys were willing or convinced to even support those concerns as all of them were committed to tape by the group. The same goes for the overly ignored like narratives of concerns and criticisms by Brian’s collaborator; somehow those alleged problems between the 2 collaborators are seen as far less significant and, unlike with the Boys, there doesn’t seem to be a general problem with accepting that VDP was both critical and supportive.

I used to think like you do but I don’t see Smiley as SMiLE, Smiley is what Brian wanted to do instead of SMiLE and again over any group objections [which were more strenuous over the SMiLE songs and recordings being junked according to Brian] but still with their support.  To me it seems like there is a resistance to acknowledging how much the Boys were willing to lump and give up and give in for the sake of Brian’s muse.

[Evenreven]

Why does it have to be that complicated?
Maybe he just dug the sounds they were coming up with, and decided to put em out!

But Mike didn't raise any issues that we know of and fully cooperated with Smiley.  He did (unless you are Cam) raise concerns and interfere with Smile.  So what's up with that?  And how does that play into Brian's decision?  Let's take your view -- you say that it is an FU by Brian (I don't agree, but work with me).  Given that, why did he choose to make it an FU, and why did Mike say OK to that but reject Smile?  I don't want to start the Thread, but I *am* interested in the dynamics of Smile going to Smiley and the band members views, each one and their thoughts.  All I have seen is Al who seems to have been disheartened by Smiley over Smile.  But it got approved by the band for release.  How?

Just VERY curious, that's all.

Absence of Van Dyke Parks lyrics. That's my answer. Obviously Mike and Van Dyke do not like each other. They have completely different sets of values concerning art, with Brian somewhere in the middle. The songs that got axed were the most Van Dyke-ian of the lyrics; Cabinessence, Do You Like Worms, Surf's Up... Completely different animals, lyrically, than Veggies, Heroes and even Wonderful.

This is the only reason for the band's acceptance of Smiley I can think of, Jeff. I'm curious as to what you think about this.

[Jeff Mason]

I don't have official documentation on this (and I would love to see Peter Carlin's book shed some light later in the year), but my gut tells me that Carl had some serious issues with performing Smile live, since the live band was getting lambasted as it was by certain quarters of the press (and if you hear the boots from Michigan, you can see why).  So Smiley gets by Carl because they can perform it.  And it gets by Mike for the reasons you specify.  That's what I have long thought but there is such an absence of commentary that it is just speculation.  FWIW I think that Al and Denny probably preferred the old Smile but weren't as influential on Brian's decision making process.

The fact that four of the core five were all clearly ingesting mass quantities of pot by this time probably helped as well.  And yes, that means Mike.  He is high as a kite while doing (absolutely perfect!) vocals for Wind Chimes according to SOT 18.

[Evenreven]

Good post. Both the pot and the live angle is definitely to taken into account as well. But while you say it's speculation, it's not exactly clutching at straws either. Mike "couldn't relate" to the lyrics, and the problematic ones are shelved. Even if it's not as clear cut as it may seem, I'll bet a whole Dunkin' Donuts shop that the lyrics were an important factor.

[Mitchell]

When did they ever perform anything from Smiley Smile, aside from Good Vibrations and Heroes and Villains? I could see Carl's point if they subsequently went out and did Whistle In, Little Pad, and With Me Tonight live, but they didn't, did they? Also, I'd love to see them do She's Goin' Bald live!

[Jeff Mason]

They did do Getting Hungry at Hawaii.  Basically they didn't do any touring during the Smiley era.  Once they toured again as before, they were touring for Wild Honey in October/November.

[Mitchell]

Well, that doesn't really prove that Carl was worried about replicating it onstage, though he may have been; do we have any other evidence to support this?

[Jeff Mason]

I said it was speculation!!!!


Check out the Smile Shop board -- Peter Carlin has an interesting take on it.

[Mitchell]

Smile Shop? What's that? 

[Cam Mott]

What Peter says fits in with what has been said by the BBs about why Smiley:

1.Brian said at the time he was working too hard for too little satisfaction,

2. Brian apparently told Taylor at the time he felt SMiLE was over-elaborate and outdated,

3. Brian said in that radio interview at the time that "they" wanted a different mood and approach

4. Mike said of Smiley "Brian played the tapes [of songs from "months ago"] again a few times and found it necessary to skip some songs" and "some songs have changed completely".

5. Carl said 15 years later Brian couldn't or didn't want to make a "heavy art album" but wanted to take it easy and make a homespun version.

Smiley took just as many instrumental sessions as Pet Sounds [more actually], so it doesn't seem like less work as far as studio time, although I didn't add up the hours.  That's adding 2 GV sessions to PS and only adding 3 pre-Smiley sessions for Vt and H&V used in Smiley to Smiley dates from June 5 thru July 14. I'm assuming less time was needed for arrangements since fewer instruments were involved although some times it is harder to simplify. 

Doesn't seem to be documentation of Smiley vocal sessions that I'm aware of like there is for Pet Sounds.  Lockert tells of a single all day or all night vocal session; perhaps that was it?  Don't know whether Smiley would have required less, same or more vocal arrangement man hours as Pet Sounds. 

The home studio certainly made it possible for the sessions to blocked for a shorter start to finish album period and I'm sure it made for a more relaxed atmosphere but I'm wondering if Smiley was really, or how much it really was, "easier" or less work.

[Jeff Mason]

Yeah, I think I am with you on all of that.

[Jason]

I should send each and every one of you guys here a copy of Os Mutantes' first album if you all dig Smiley Smile so much. It's THAT good. PM me if you're interested.

[Compost]

When I first heard this album, as a closet Beach Boys fan, it made me realize that I was in fact cool, while everyone else was lame.  This album has all the potency of a hot-knife session.

5

[Evenreven]

Also, I'd love to see them do She's Goin' Bald live!

YESYESYES! Me too! They could have inhaled helium on-stage!

[mike8902]

Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

That's your opinion now. Let the album settle with you.

In a few months you'll be back, speaking of a different tone.

[Chris D.]

Absolutley terrible. How could they release this after pet sounds? Even if they just released the unfinished Smile sessions it would be light years beyond this crap.

Maybe they did it to piss off sentimental knobs like you.

? Just throwin' it out there...