50th Anniversary, The SMiLE box, the reunion, new material and things to come

[John Manning]

It's time to put the kettle on...   

[Nicko]

WELL BUTTFUCK

There's no argument to that...

[Sheriff John Stone]

While I don't think there will be a reunion concert, if there would be, and if they wanted to incorporate "guests", I think the guests should have to have a connection to the song(s) they're performing on - which would eliminate outsiders like McCartney.

Vega-Tables?

I actually associate Paul McCartney more with his praise of Pet Sounds than him sitting in on a session of "Vegetables". But, as somebody mentioned, I don't think it would be a good idea to go the 25th Anniversary route and bring on guests (i.e. Belinda Carlisle, Gloria Loring, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, or even Ray Charles), no matter how great they may be. I would like to see the focus on The Beach Boys five surviving members. The other "guests" I mentioned, The Honeys, Glen Campbell, Blondie & Ricky, and even Dean Torrence (who could also serve as MC) were an actual part of the history, and could actually add some sentimentality to a reunion concert. Wouldn't it be kind of cool to have those "old friends" make an appearance. You could even have Van Dyke Parks play the piano for "Heroes And Villains", or accordian for "Lahaina Aloha".

[The Heartical Don]

While I don't think there will be a reunion concert, if there would be, and if they wanted to incorporate "guests", I think the guests should have to have a connection to the song(s) they're performing on - which would eliminate outsiders like McCartney.

Vega-Tables?

I actually associate Paul McCartney more with his praise of Pet Sounds than him sitting in on a session of "Vegetables". But, as somebody mentioned, I don't think it would be a good idea to go the 25th Anniversary route and bring on guests (i.e. Belinda Carlisle, Gloria Loring, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, or even Ray Charles), no matter how great they may be. I would like to see the focus on The Beach Boys five surviving members. The other "guests" I mentioned, The Honeys, Glen Campbell, Blondie & Ricky, and even Dean Torrence (who could also serve as MC) were an actual part of the history, and could actually add some sentimentality to a reunion concert. Wouldn't it be kind of cool to have those "old friends" make an appearance. You could even have Van Dyke Parks play the piano for "Heroes And Villains", or accordian for "Lahaina Aloha".

OK with me, as long as the whole casts ends the show with an 8 minute singalong/karaoke version of Kokomo. A classic, generation-spanning achievement.

[buddhahat]

Obviously BWPS has come out since then - that's why I say that if there is a Smile box set, put BWPS on it. It's relevant, it's good, and it pleases everyone - Brian's proper, completed version of it is presented alongside the original tapes, nothing is overshadowed, etc. etc. etc.

I doubt that's realistic at all.

Firstly because the record labels wouldn't agree to it.

Secondly because I guess the band members wouldn't agree to it.

Thirdly, how would it not be overshadowed??? One disc you get to hear Brian in the 60s, the next you are listening to his voice 40 years later.

Practical reasons aside, I think it makes perfect sense to have BWPS represented in some form, either included on a cd, or have the original sessions sequenced a la BWPS, as closely as the original song structures will allow.

I think the one glaring problem with a smile box is how to sequence it. You either arrange the sessions chronologically and leave it at that (a bit dry, I think many would agree), or you set aside part of the box as a playable Smile 'album'. If this is to happen, it would seem crazy to toss Brian & VDP's 2004 sequence out the window wouldn't it, certainly in favour of an arbitrary imagining of how the album might have played in 67?

Maybe the presence of BWPS in a smile box might prompt the other BBs to dig around in their archives for evidnce of a solid 67 sequence. Mike: "Oh wadda y'know, Hereos was supposed to be 12 mins long - listen to this Brian!"

The only other solution as I see it, would be to use the handwritten list as a guide, but peronally I'd prefer a nod to the BWPS sequence.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm predicting a 50th Anniversary SMiLE boxed set in 2016 or 2017. I think it'll be similar to the Pet Sounds boxed set, maybe four or five CD's with track/vocals only and various versions/mixes.

What I would really like to see is a single CD released, a sampler if you will. You've seen these type CD's; the Byrds immediately come to mind. I'd like to see this single CD have each SMiLE song represented (I think it would fit on an 80 min. CD), with the most "finished" tracks put in a logical sequence. Now, that's the million dollar question(s). What are the most "finished" tracks and what sequence do you use? I think the "experts" chosen to assemble the songs could tackle the most "finished" question without too much controversy, but what sequence do you use? I wouldn't go with a chronological approach and I definitely wouldn't go with BWPS (because that was sequenced for a live performance). I do think if the people sequencing the songs stick to the consensus (whatever THAT means but you know what I mean - the safe route) -  and state ahead of time that it is in no way the FINISHED SMiLE sequence (unlike what Brian Wilson said in 2004), then I think the sequence would be accepted. It's just a sampling taken from a boxed set, that's all, not the definitive sequence.

EDIT: I almost forgot....I'd like to see that single CD use Frank Holmes's original cover and artwork.

[Dr. Tim]

I'm one of those who doesn't see this happening, unless Brian changes his mind since his statement it would only come out "over his dead body".  Which might be the case by 2016 or 2017 (no Sheriff you weren't being morbid - I am)

Also - sorry, fellow fans - while musicheads would grab it, the further out this goes, the less interest there will be among music consumers generally, assuming they aren't getting all their music via subscription services or download/upload servers by then.  Hard copies and maybe a vinyl pressing will be luxury items for collector-types who dig that sort of thing.  Over time the public will more and more be consigning the BB to the boomer oldies scrapheap along with the Drifters, Four Seasons, CCR, the Rascals and other perfectly good bands but the memory thereof recedes as the years advance.

The speculation of what such a box set would contain is interesting, though.

[Bean Bag]

I'm predicting a 50th Anniversary SMiLE boxed set in 2016 or 2017. I think it'll be similar to the Pet Sounds boxed set, maybe four or five CD's with track/vocals only and various versions/mixes.

A SMiLE box would be great if it could give us;

1.  Great Sound Quality.  I forget what I have and where I got it...but I hope all this stuff (and more) exists somewhere, untouched for 40 years -- in pristine MASTER TAPE quality.  I have high-hopes on this.  At least an improvement over what I have -- which is why it's number 1.  A SMiLE box MUST deliver on this.   

2.  Alt Mixes.  Like the discovery of the Alt Heroes mix...I'd love to hear what other acetates or mixdowns exists.  It seems unlikely to me that Brian didn't mix down a bunch of this stuff -- to take back to the pad to sample what he was working on ...and smoke big lsd-dipped hash joints (??) listening to it in the tent, eating hash brownies, while smoking pot.  There HAS TO be (or HAD to be) tons of mixes for this purpose.  While they might be hard to find, I stand by their existence...which is why its number 2.   

3.  All other New Finds.  Ah yes...the "un-booted."  Anything new.  A new vocal we never new existed.  A tag, a transition...anything.  I really don't remember all the sessionography stuff...so maybe there really isn't anything left to find...but...c'mon!  There's gotsta be sumpin!   


While I'd LOVE a single-disk SMiLE approximation...this isn't key to me...which is why I didn't list it.  It would be a MASSIVE bonus if Brian DID do this.   Frankly, I'd be just fine with a BWPS version of the original tapes...because it is EXCELLENT and hands down DESTROYS every other version I've heard/made -- and I'd rather have it done professionally (or possible by the man himself!) than for me to do all the work and stuff on my computer.     But its absence wouldn't be deal-breaker for me.

Regardless of what we get...a SMiLE box, I would be all over.  And it remains on my list of demands.    ...even if there's is NOTHING new or improved over what I have. Some list of demands!

[The Heartical Don]

I'm predicting a 50th Anniversary SMiLE boxed set in 2016 or 2017. I think it'll be similar to the Pet Sounds boxed set, maybe four or five CD's with track/vocals only and various versions/mixes.

A SMiLE box would be great if it could give us;

1.  Great Sound Quality.  I forget what I have and where I got it...but I hope all this stuff (and more) exists somewhere, untouched for 40 years -- in pristine MASTER TAPE quality.  I have high-hopes on this.  At least an improvement over what I have -- which is why it's number 1.  A SMiLE box MUST deliver on this.   

2.  Alt Mixes.  Like the discovery of the Alt Heroes mix...I'd love to hear what other acetates or mixdowns exists.  It seems unlikely to me that Brian didn't mix down a bunch of this stuff -- to take back to the pad to sample what he was working on ...and smoke big lsd-dipped hash joints (??) listening to it in the tent, eating hash brownies, while smoking pot.  There HAS TO be (or HAD to be) tons of mixes for this purpose.  While they might be hard to find, I stand by their existence...which is why its number 2.   

3.  All other New Finds.  Ah yes...the "un-booted."  Anything new.  A new vocal we never new existed.  A tag, a transition...anything.  I really don't remember all the sessionography stuff...so maybe there really isn't anything left to find...but...c'mon!  There's gotsta be sumpin!   


While I'd LOVE a single-disk SMiLE approximation...this isn't key to me...which is why I didn't list it.  It would be a MASSIVE bonus if Brian DID do this.   Frankly, I'd be just fine with a BWPS version of the original tapes...because it is EXCELLENT and hands down DESTROYS every other version I've heard/made -- and I'd rather have it done professionally (or possible by the man himself!) than for me to do all the work and stuff on my computer.     But its absence wouldn't be deal-breaker for me.

Regardless of what we get...a SMiLE box, I would be all over.  And it remains on my list of demands.    ...even if there's is NOTHING new or improved over what I have. Some list of demands!

I'd say that there simply has to be quite a lot of yet-unheard material. Unfinished, for sure; otherwise prolly more songs would have been used as 'luxurious filler material' like Cabinessence on 20/20. But with my statistical nose in full swing: it is unlikely, very unlikely that we have heard everything of interest (not that we ever bought and heard anything untoward, mind, we're good people over here, with a keen eye on the Law).

What if we founded a Hamburger-and-Pizza Delivery Service and brought Brian a truckload of our goodies every day (in secret, sneaking the stuff past his wife and managers) and asked him for a slight favor in return?

[Mike's Beard]

I[/quote]

OK with me, as long as the whole casts ends the show with an 8 minute singalong/karaoke version of Kokomo. A classic, generation-spanning achievement.[/quote]

True then for extra added value entertainment can a little ring be set up by the side of the stage so after the song ends Mike and VDP can duke it out once and for all in a boxing/wrestling match?  

[Sheriff John Stone]

While I'd LOVE a single-disk SMiLE approximation...this isn't key to me...which is why I didn't list it.  It would be a MASSIVE bonus if Brian DID do this.   Frankly, I'd be just fine with a BWPS version of the original tapes...because it is EXCELLENT and hands down DESTROYS every other version I've heard/made -- and I'd rather have it done professionally (or possible by the man himself!) than for me to do all the work and stuff on my computer.

What? After all of those great ideas from the "Your personal SMiLE mix" thread?

Seriously, I would want the single CD to be able to reach the masses, instead of a limited audience who would invest in an expensive boxed set. Wouldn't that SMiLE CD look cool in a CD bin right after Pet Sounds, unless, as Dr. Tim pointed out, there IS a CD in the next decade!

[The Heartical Don]

I

OK with me, as long as the whole casts ends the show with an 8 minute singalong/karaoke version of Kokomo. A classic, generation-spanning achievement.[/quote]

True then for extra added value entertainment can a little ring be set up by the side of the stage so after the song ends Mike and VDP can duke it out once and for all in a boxing/wrestling match?  
[/quote]

OK. But only if I get the chance to secretly inform VDP, so that he can train off that paunch he has beforehand... because I want him to win. It's not really rigging, this, it's creating a fair and balanced view on things, or something...

[Mike's Beard]

My money's on Mike. 

[Bean Bag]

While I'd LOVE a single-disk SMiLE approximation...this isn't key to me...which is why I didn't list it.  It would be a MASSIVE bonus if Brian DID do this.   Frankly, I'd be just fine with a BWPS version of the original tapes...because it is EXCELLENT and hands down DESTROYS every other version I've heard/made -- and I'd rather have it done professionally (or possible by the man himself!) than for me to do all the work and stuff on my computer.

What? After all of those great ideas from the "Your personal SMiLE mix" thread?

If they don't include a 1967 version of BWPS, it's no big deal, cuz I could (and would) just make one myself -- that was the point I was attempting to make there.  But since making my own BWPS out of the "improved sound quality" materials would be a lot of work...I guess I would appreciate it if they did this for me...   but it's not a deal breaker.

If Brian creates a NEW finished version, that's different.  Definitely include that -- that's huge!!!  But I'm not expecting him to.  Nor am I demanding that the producers of said box make a SMiLE mix -- as they see it -- outside of doing it BWPS style.  Anything else would just make it more confusing. 

Seriously, I would want the single CD to be able to reach the masses, instead of a limited audience who would invest in an expensive boxed set. Wouldn't that SMiLE CD look cool in a CD bin right after Pet Sounds, unless, as Dr. Tim pointed out, there IS a CD in the next decade!

That's a good point.  You know...I really can't imagine them not doing one.  Which do you think will appear;

1.  A 1967 BWPS?
2.  A new SMiLE mix by, I don't know...Mark Linnett or David Leaf, Bruce Johnston??  Paul McCartney?   
3.  Brian Wilson presents his own SMiLE mix tape?

4.  ...or all the SMiLE stuff really was completed afterall....and Brian just needed to assemble it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Seriously, I would want the single CD to be able to reach the masses, instead of a limited audience who would invest in an expensive boxed set. Wouldn't that SMiLE CD look cool in a CD bin right after Pet Sounds, unless, as Dr. Tim pointed out, there IS a CD in the next decade!

That's a good point.  You know...I really can't imagine them not doing one.  Which do you think will appear;

1.  A 1967 BWPS?
2.  A new SMiLE mix by, I don't know...Mark Linnett or David Leaf, Bruce Johnston??  Paul McCartney?   
3.  Brian Wilson presents his own SMiLE mix tape?

4.  ...or all the SMiLE stuff really was completed afterall....and Brian just needed to assemble it.

Choice 2. Or, more specifically, a TEAM consisting of guys like Boyd, Linnett, Leaf, etc.

Most samplers taken from boxed sets are done in chronological order, but SMiLE would have definite "flow" problems using that approach. And, if you're going to include stuff like "He Gives Speeches", "With Me Tonight", "You're Welcome", and "Tones", which I hope they would, then you can't use the BWPS sequence - because it would mess with THAT sequence by squeezing/inserting songs in there.

I don't have an answer other than grouping the stuff as Americana, childhood, elements, etc. At least we could keep the fades and not have to manufacture movements. Obviously, it will never please everybody - what else is new - but, again, state upfront that this is not trying to be the definitive SMiLE sequence. Brian took care of that in 2004.

[Bean Bag]

....hmm.

You know...I'm still haunted by a twelve track SMiLE.  I'm done (or am I) trying to make one.  BWPS is perfect and blessed by the artist.  It really is amazing...I stand by my comments!  But it's 17 tracks and three movements.  ?  That could not have happened in 1967!  Ahhhh!!!!!!

 

[Aegir]

this is not trying to be the definitive SMiLE sequence. Brian took care of that in 2004.

BWPS is not the definitive track sequence, it's the studio version of songs from Smile arranged for live performance.

[Sheriff John Stone]

this is not trying to be the definitive SMiLE sequence. Brian took care of that in 2004.

BWPS is not the definitive track sequence, it's the studio version of songs from Smile arranged for live performance.

My BWPS CD ain't no live performance!

[Bicyclerider]

We all remember Mike suing Brian over the release of BWPS, don't we?  He lost, but he would certainly sue over a release of the Beach Boys Smile tapes UNLESS he was given significant input (and royalties) from the project.
'
Knowing that, I would propose a one CD Beach Boys Smile with Mike completing the lyrics to songs like Song for Children (more like a sequel to "Roller Skating Child") and Child is Father of the Man ( "Dennis is the father of my grandchild"), and Mike replacing/altering the lyrics to Worms ("Rock, Rock, roll, Beethoven roll over" might work), Holidays ("Holidays in Kokomo"), I'm in Great Shape, Dada/Blue Hawaii, The Elements (some great Mike "fire" lyrics, maybe about some hot chick stoking his fire).  He might want to tackle rewriting Surf's Up (with more traditional surfing lyrics, subtitle the song "Do It Again Part 2) and the tag to Cabinessence, since those were his main objections to the album at the time.  Mike would sing most of the leads, with one for Al and one for Bruce.  Then they could take this new version of Smile on tour for the 50th anniversary tour, reuniting Mike, Al, Bruce and Brian for the last time!

[Jason]

I've said it before. I'll say it again.

Brian has final say on a Smile sessions release. And that came about from the blessings of Michael, Carl, and Al, who sold their rights to the Smile recordings to Brian, effectively making Brian the head honcho. Michael would have no case.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've said it before. I'll say it again.

Brian has final say on a Smile sessions release. And that came about from the blessings of Michael, Carl, and Al, who sold their rights to the Smile recordings to Brian, effectively making Brian the head honcho. Michael would have no case.

Agree. But I think the only interest Mike would have anyway would be how much his cut will be.

What do you think the chances are, that in the next 6-7 years, a sharp Capitol Records executive (and maybe even a fan of SMiLE) contacts Melinda and makes her an offer she can't refuse. Then, Melinda sells the idea to Brian, and before you know it, Brian is announcing that a SMiLE boxed set is coming out. Possible, probable, or no chance?

[runnersdialzero]

I think the one glaring problem with a smile box is how to sequence it. You either arrange the sessions chronologically and leave it at that (a bit dry, I think many would agree), or you set aside part of the box as a playable Smile 'album'. If this is to happen, it would seem crazy to toss Brian & VDP's 2004 sequence out the window wouldn't it, certainly in favour of an arbitrary imagining of how the album might have played in 67?

I think AGD said the original plans for the box were to include one disc with a  proper, playable version of the album as best they could manage with the original tapes.

I also agree about using the BWPS sequence - in fact, I'd hope for it.

[Jason]

Agree. But I think the only interest Mike would have anyway would be how much his cut will be.

What do you think the chances are, that in the next 6-7 years, a sharp Capitol Records executive (and maybe even a fan of SMiLE) contacts Melinda and makes her an offer she can't refuse. Then, Melinda sells the idea to Brian, and before you know it, Brian is announcing that a SMiLE boxed set is coming out. Possible, probable, or no chance?

Michael would gain, at most, performance royalties. If Michael were to try and sue again to try and get a bigger cut, it would simply be thrown out as a meritless case and the judge would rule that Michael sold his share of the rights to Brian.

Due to Brian owning the rights to the material, it's effectively in his ballpark as to what label puts it out. Most likely, he would have Capitol put it out because potentially shopping the recordings to another label for a release would most likely result in a suit from Capitol Records to gain control of the release in order to collect their share of the profits, or, even worse if Brian were to defend himself in that suit and win, Capitol could potentially thumb their noses at Brian, say "f*** you", and sue him for the sum of the recording fees that Capitol put up for the project - recording costs, musician fees, the junked covers. In that case, most likely, Capitol would definitely come out swinging with a huge paycheck from Brian.

[oldsurferdude]

We all remember Mike suing Brian over the release of BWPS, don't we?  He lost, but he would certainly sue over a release of the Beach Boys Smile tapes UNLESS he was given significant input (and royalties) from the project.
'
Knowing that, I would propose a one CD Beach Boys Smile with Mike completing the lyrics to songs like Song for Children (more like a sequel to "Roller Skating Child") and Child is Father of the Man ( "Dennis is the father of my grandchild"), and Mike replacing/altering the lyrics to Worms ("Rock, Rock, roll, Beethoven roll over" might work), Holidays ("Holidays in Kokomo"), I'm in Great Shape, Dada/Blue Hawaii, The Elements (some great Mike "fire" lyrics, maybe about some hot chick stoking his fire).  He might want to tackle rewriting Surf's Up (with more traditional surfing lyrics, subtitle the song "Do It Again Part 2) and the tag to Cabinessence, since those were his main objections to the album at the time.  Mike would sing most of the leads, with one for Al and one for Bruce.  Then they could take this new version of Smile on tour for the 50th anniversary tour, reuniting Mike, Al, Bruce and Brian for the last time!

[Cam Mott]

The other Boys sold their rights to the SMiLE recordings to Brian? Or, what? I don't think I follow.