Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

[Cabinessenceking]

All this back and forth over one song is driving me nuts. Its one DW song that is probably great, but nothing magnificent like BW's best works. If people agreed to the offer by beachboys_fr, so be it. If others are waiting for MIC set to have it, thats the way to go in my opinion.

but it might be the last great track out there. And it will fill a much needed space in the early 70's in my beach boys chronological playlist!

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

It'll be on the box. This guy will have nothing except a story.

Don't trade. Wait. I'd bet good money on that.

[Mikie]

Brian couldn't touch Dennis, post 'til I die', in my opinion. Ridiculous as this thread is........

And you just made it more ridiculous with that statement.

[Wirestone]

Dennis, much like Carl, wrote a handful of arguably great songs. Both were studio wizards. But neither one could sustain the songwriting at anything approaching a stable standard of quality.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Brian couldn't touch Dennis, post 'til I die', in my opinion. Ridiculous as this thread is........

And you just made it more ridiculous with that statement.

Having an opinion isn't ridiculous.

Trying to belittle someone elses opinion because you don't agree with it? That's ridiculous.

You have a nice day, little man!

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Dennis, much like Carl, wrote a handful of arguably great songs. Both were studio wizards. But neither one could sustain the songwriting at anything approaching a stable standard of quality.

I disrespect your opinion because I disagree with it

Seriously though, what Brian song post 'til I die' comes close to 'Baby Blue', or 'thoughts of you', or 'time'. You'll note there is no question mark ending that previous sentence. That's because it's not a question.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And now it is grammatically incorrect!

[drbeachboy]

Dennis, much like Carl, wrote a handful of arguably great songs. Both were studio wizards. But neither one could sustain the songwriting at anything approaching a stable standard of quality.

I disrespect your opinion because I disagree with it

Seriously though, what Brian song post 'til I die' comes close to 'Baby Blue', or 'thoughts of you', or 'time'. You'll note there is no question mark ending that previous sentence. That's because it's not a question.

Good thing it is only your opinion, because had you stated it as fact, you'd be very, very incorrect. As for songs as good or better, off the top of my head, imho "Rio Grande", any of the last 4 songs on TWGMTR, "Midnight's Another Day". Don't get me wrong, I love Dennis' music, always have, but Brian is in a whole other world when taking in his whole body of work. Also, why use "Til I Die", wasn't WIBNTLA written before it or at least around the same time?

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Good thing it is only your opinion, because had you stated it as fact, you'd be very, very incorrect. As for songs as good or better, off the top of my head, imho "Rio Grande", any of the last 4 songs on TWGMTR, "Midnight's Another Day". Don't get me wrong, I love Dennis' music, always have, but Brian is in a whole other world when taking in his whole body of work. Also, why use "Til I Die", wasn't WIBNTLA written before it or at least around the same time?

I'm talking about songs Brian has actually written, not heavy co-writes that are essentially pastiches of his earlier work (and one of those is SO a pastiche of Dennis).

Can't take his whole body of work into account, because that's not the point I'm defending. If we were taking into account his whole body of work, then I wouldn't have said something like 'Brian couldn't touch Dennis', because it would be clearly ludicrous.

I use 'til I die' as my cutoff, because I think it's the last thing Brian wrote that justifies his 'genius' tag.

Kinda baffled that it's even a discussion point really...the sixties were Brians 'time', the seventies were Dennis's. I'm fed up of saying that's just my opinion. It's a fact now.

[Jon Stebbins]

Dennis, much like Carl, wrote a handful of arguably great songs. Both were studio wizards. But neither one could sustain the songwriting at anything approaching a stable standard of quality.

I disrespect your opinion because I disagree with it

Seriously though, what Brian song post 'til I die' comes close to 'Baby Blue', or 'thoughts of you', or 'time'. You'll note there is no question mark ending that previous sentence. That's because it's not a question.

Good thing it is only your opinion, because had you stated it as fact, you'd be very, very incorrect. As for songs as good or better, off the top of my head, imho "Rio Grande"...

Love it when people use Rio Grande as an example of Brian's superiority to Dennis as multiple insiders (people with access to Beach Boys tape archive) have repeatedly said that Brian lifted considerable parts of that from 70's Dennis demos and/or early 80's Dennis/Brian demos.

[drbeachboy]

I know all about the history of Rio Grande. The point was limiting great amounts of Brian's output, but essentially hardly any of Dennis'. It is not Brian's fault that Dennis started later. As I stated, I am a very big fan of Dennis' musical output. Also, to Bergen...., Dennis had many co-writers, as well.

[Nicko1234]

Kinda baffled that it's even a discussion point really...the sixties were Brians 'time', the seventies were Dennis's. I'm fed up of saying that's just my opinion. It's a fact now.

Not a fact at all.

I agree with you that Til I Die is Brian's last great song. But the fact remains that the songs that Brian wrote or co-wrote for CATP and Holland are generally considered to be better than Dennis's. I'm sure you would find a lot of people who value later stuff like Good Timin', California Feelin' (we may hear it in a superior version on the box set perhaps), some of the Love You songs and My Diane above many of Dennis's songs from that period too.

Brian could still write a song at this point but didn't always have the inclination to complete it.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

But the fact remains that the songs that Brian wrote or co-wrote for CATP and Holland are generally considered to be better than Dennis's. I'm sure you would find a lot of people who value later stuff like Good Timin', California Feelin' (we may hear it in a superior version on the box set perhaps), some of the Love You songs and My Diane above many of Dennis's songs from that period too.

Hahah...this is so tenuous.

"fact remains" "generally considered" and "a lot of people" crack me up the most. Meaningless waffle that add no weight to your opinion.

I could quite easily say that "a lot of people think River Song is the best Beach Boys related recording of the seventies". Do you get me?

Brian's songs better than Dennis's on CATP? LOL.

Probably said this before on the board, but California Feeling leaves me cold. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's a BAD song, but it's certainly not an incredible one. Good Timin' I love because it's the Beach Boys, but in the grand scheme of things it's just another radio friendly 70s soft rock track, that people REALLY want to be amazing because it's co-written by Brian Wilson.

g*ddamned Brianistas!

[SMiLE Brian]

Nicko1234 is last person you could ever consider as a brianista.

The fact is that Brian could still do work better than Dennis' when he felt like it, which was rare during the 1970s but still happened from time to time.

[Jon Stebbins]

I really hate Brian and Dennis comparisons when they turn competitive. No need for that. they were so different, and so similar too. Brian was Dennis' musical GOD. No way they should be compared by saying one is better or one doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath. Brian will always be more accessible and more commercially viable, but Dennis was equally unique and similar in that music flowed from a spiritual place and through him, and to us. For that we are lucky. I love them both so much, and I'm so happy they gave us what they did.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I know all about the history of Rio Grande. The point was limiting great amounts of Brian's output, but essentially hardly any of Dennis'. It is not Brian's fault that Dennis started later. As I stated, I am a very big fan of Dennis' musical output. Also, to Bergen...., Dennis had many co-writers, as well.

I feel like you've waded in here without a point, with all due respect.

Someone cast doubt as to whether WIBNTLA was going to be all that, so I stated my opinion that basically the best thing about The Beach Boys in the 70s was Dennis's material, therefore I'd guess that yes, it IS going to be all that.

The wider question of Brian vs Dennis is utterly irrelevent.

Sure, Dennis had co-writers too, but I don't really get the impression he wrote a verse of a song and then someone else cobbled it together and went 'tada! it's a stunning return to form'!

[Lowbacca]

[...] they were so different, and so similar too. [...] No way they should be compared by saying one is better or one doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath. Brian will always be more accessible and more commercially viable, but Dennis was equally unique and similar in that music flowed from a spiritual place and through him, and to us. For that we are lucky. [...]

Amen. Well put.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

The fact is that Brian could still do work better than Dennis' when he felt like it, which was rare during the 1970s but still happened from time to time.

On tracks such as?

[SMiLE Brian]

Til I die
Marcella
Funky Pretty
Sail on Sailor
Funky Pretty
Good Timin
Its Ok
California Feeling
Had To Phone Ya
Love You album.
My Diane

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

So everything except the real chud off MIU, pretty much?

Hahah- give me a break. 

I mean, sorry, my mistake- you've made me realise that nothing Dennis did was anywhere near as good as Funky frickin' Pretty

[Mike's Beard]

I'd say that Mt.Vernon and Fairway was Brian's last stab at utter genius. I do think Dennis surpassed Brian in the 70's but that the turning point came a good few years after 'Till I Die was recorded.

[SMiLE Brian]

So everything except the real chud off MIU, pretty much?

Hahah- give me a break. 

I mean, sorry, my mistake- you've made me realise that nothing Dennis did was anywhere near as good as Funky frickin' Pretty

You made remember how abrasive you can be at times.

Brian's rare productions were highlights of the 1970s albums and that says a lot since Brian barely cared anymore in his BBs work.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

You made remember how abrasive you can be at times.

Brian's rare productions were highlights of the 1970s albums and that says a lot since Brian barely cared anymore in his BBs work.

That's because I feel like I'm being attacked for very politely (to start with) stating a pretty uncontroversial opinion, and have been on the receiving end of some really rubbish debating tactics "most people think"...etc

I disagree that Brians productions were the highlight of the '70s albums after Surfs Up.

Cuddle Up and Make it Good tower over the rest of C and the P in my opinion. I love the entire thing, it's one of my favourite BB albums, but what Dennis was AIMING for was so much more interesting. Brians tracks are great, but they are pretty simple tunes, (mostly produced by Carl?) It's kinda like comparing Creedence Clearwater Revival with Scott Walker. Dennis's tracks are the sort of thing that make a guys reputation, Brians are ace, but they are no Good Vibrations, Cool Cool Water or God only Knows.

Everything on Holland is great, I fail to see that Funky Pretty is a highlight any more than Steamboat, or Big Sur...it's a bang on, solid album.

Brian takes all the production credits on 15 big ones and Love You, no 'Brian highlights' here. For what it's worth Love you is up there with POB, CATP and Sunflower as my favourite BB record

MIU Blows.

Brian's barely there on LA, which is totally made by Dennis's contributions.

[Nicko1234]

Hahah...this is so tenuous.

"fact remains" "generally considered" and "a lot of people" crack me up the most. Meaningless waffle that add no weight to your opinion.

I could quite easily say that "a lot of people think River Song is the best Beach Boys related recording of the seventies". Do you get me?

Brian's songs better than Dennis's on CATP? LOL.

Sorry but you seem to have rather a one-eyed view of this topic.

If somebody stated, 'River Song' is a very highly rated track by many people' then I would absolutely agree. Not tenuous at all. Surely more relevant to this discussion than saying, 'I like Dennis's songs so it's a fact that they are great'. 

You can laugh at Brian's songs on CATP but how many compilations or live albums has Marcella appeared on in comparison with Dennis's two tunes? That is something quantifiable and something even you couldn't dismiss as 'meaningless waffle'. 

[Nicko1234]

That's because I feel like I'm being attacked for very politely (to start with) stating a pretty uncontroversial opinion, and have been on the receiving end of some really rubbish debating tactics "most people think"...etc

Nobody has attacked you as far as I can see. But you seem to be saying that just because you believe that Dennis ruled the 1970s that that makes it a fact.

I certainly never used the phrase 'most people think' and I don't think it's particularly controversial to argue that a song like Sail on Sailor, for example, is more celebrated than the songs Dennis was contributing at that time. I don't use that based on my opinion but on its appearances in the setlists and on compilations, the number of times it has been covered, polls on this board, statements from band members themselves etc.

Mr Stebbins is right as well. There is no need for arguments about, 'Dennis was better than Brian in the 1970s'. Certainly no need to state that opinion as a fact.