Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: "I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody."

[rab2591]

And joking about killing people is not funny.

This brings up a thought I had about all the violence here in America lately. I went to a Brian concert a couple weeks ago and on that very night in the very same small city two people were brutally stabbed (supposedly an attempted decapitation) by someone claiming to be a member of ISIS. The night Brian sings "a lot of people out there getting shot, and it really scares me" there's a brutal attack on an innocent couple in the same city Brian is singing in. It's crazy just how pervasive senseless violence is becoming in America, and making jokes about killing (especially after Orlando) is probably not the best route to take...and you're right, it's not funny at all.

[SMiLE Brian]

Well said rab2591!

[Pacific Ocean Blue]

I'm sure there's more to worry about than someone saying that on the internet 

[HeyJude]

Uggh, c'mon. The point IS NOT so much that these ridiculous, uncreative, unfunny "death threats" were real.

The point is that if someone HATES a message board that much (listen to how he talks about the board, ignore even the actual death threat remarks; he sounds like he hates the place and has already sworn it off), why would they come back and continue to post for over two months after that?

Like a few folks, his apparent purpose for continuing to be here was:

1. Complain about how much the board sucks.

2. Stirring up s**t. (He seemed to believe over two months ago that being "pro-Mike Love" was the root of the problem, so he responded by continuing to go out of his way to post "pro-Mike" comments and also insult others by assuming anybody critical of Mike was pre-judging and a "hater.")

3. Play the victim ("Why don't people like me? What did I do?")

So back to the question: Why would someone with so much vitriolic, emphatic disgust for a board come back and continue to post for over two months after expressing such feelings? The only answer I can think of is that he was trolling the whole time.

So, the issue isn't that Mr. Lee likes Mike Love. The issue isn't that people came into this not liking Mr. Lee. The issue is that Mr. Lee trolled the board *repeatedly.*

Let's be clear: Saying things in support of Mike is *NOT* in and of itself "trolling." It becomes "trolling" when you insult and condemn a board, making sweeping generalizations and assumptions about a board, and then continue to post on that board.

Look at this guy's old posts. It reads like he *went out of his way* to egg people on so that he could play the victim. Again, look at his posts after his "article" on Mike was published but *before* anybody read it. He comes on *assuming* he's going to be attacked. He doesn't try to understand why some people might have felt he trolled people on this board and used the board because he was too lazy to do more original first-hand research on the legitimately worthwhile topic of why there is so much disdain for Mike. Look at that YouTube video again. He actually thinks (or at least claims to think) that people are giving him s**t simply because he likes Mike Love. He totally missed the point from the beginning! (Or, just as likely, was trolling the whole time).

And finally, I'm additionally troubled by Mr. Lee's actions and comments, both before and after "leaving" this board, because I think his continued disparagement of this board has an air of "cyber bullying" accusations (to be clear, I don't think anybody has used that term, but my opinion is that that is being alluded to), and that's where his Facebook post and resulting response comments come into play. Because, regardless of how "serious" any of the "joking" death threats are, his post and its resulting comments on his Facebook page contains *numerous* references to violence, and a bunch of people (I'm assuming Iain Lee groupies) who probably know nothing about the Beach Boys or this board offering disparaging comments (and, again, some "joking" death threats) about this place.

On top of everything else, the guy isn't funny. Can't someone at least make fun of this place and be funny about it? This place (and other boards and BB fandom in general) *IS* totally ripe for being made fun of. I'd be less annoyed by this guy if he had even been kind of a dick but did or said something where I could at least say "Okay, well that *was* pretty funny, though. I'll give him that."

[HeyJude]

First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

As I said previously, the point isn't that the death threats are legit. They're not funny either; you're epically failing as a comedian usually when you have to scream at everybody "Get a sense of humor! C'mon!"

The point is that he clearly hated this place, yet continued to post here, with posts doing the very thing he already claimed was raising the ire of the board, and then playing a victim when criticized. The point is that the only person who says a place is the worst place on the internet of all time, yet continues to participate in that forum, is trolling.

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation

Mr. Lee is the one who now *clearly* was doing the provoking. The timeline concerning his initial posts, followed by writing his article, followed by his comments and assumptions about how people would react to the article, followed by the timing of that YouTube video and its comments, followed by his additional two and half months on this board suggest he was the one all along doing the provoking.

I don't even really know why I've even logged back on here again. I guess I wanted to see if things had improved - but no, clearly not.

You do know that you don't have to log back on to view the board, right? I think what actually happens is that people who come on for the *sole* purpose of telling us how awful the board is are doing so because they *like* posting that sort of stuff. Otherwise, what's the point?

I for one choose *not* to spend my time logging onto forums that I *don't* like for the sole purpose of telling them that they suck.

[Emily]

I agree, HeyJude. I don't consider Iain Lee's comment to be a literal death threat. I think it underscores that his claims of just trying to be a friendly poster were disingenuous.

[thorgil]

First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation and just flat-out mean-spirited jealousy that was directed towards him was almost comical - and it was actively encouraged by those who should have known better.

But while you're all busy bitching on this depressing site, Iain will no doubt continue to have articles published in respectable music magazines and oversee successful record reissue campaigns - not bad for a '3rd rate british [sic] version of Bubba the Love Sponge'. Oh, and a 'wanker' and a 'fucking tool'. Where are the moderators in all of this uncensored abuse??

I don't even really know why I've even logged back on here again. I guess I wanted to see if things had improved - but no, clearly not.

Right, I'm off to Brighton to see Brian at the Brighton Festival with my lovely wife... Bye - enjoy bitching in my (permanent) absence

Can I have your gear?

[rab2591]

On top of everything else, the guy isn't funny. Can't someone at least make fun of this place and be funny about it? This place (and other boards and BB fandom in general) *IS* totally ripe for being made fun of. I'd be less annoyed by this guy if he had even been kind of a dick but did or said something where I could at least say "Okay, well that *was* pretty funny, though. I'll give him that."

This brings to mind Bill Burr's epic Philly rant. The crowd was ignoring him the moment he got on stage and he thus launched into a diatribe wishing death, violence, terminal illness on the audience (YIKES!), but he also pointed out hilarious observations about the city, it's culture, and it's inhabitants. By the end of his allotted time he got booming applause...because most of what he said was actually funny. Also, Bill Burr didn't quit going to Philly after that.

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

[guitarfool2002]

The humor in the situation is how when Iain first appeared with his "Why Do People Hate Mike Love" thread, many of the same people now embracing him and joining him on the "nice" place were the ones calling him a troll, calling for him to be removed and the thread locked or deleted, and openly challenging his motives and even attacking him personally. And the reason why centered around the assumption that his post was going to be an exercise in "Mike Bashing", and that he was here to start a round of Mike bashing, i.e. "trolling".

Then when it further developed, his article which he was purportedly "researching" via his posting experiment here seemed to ignore or leave out many of the actual insightful comments and opinions, and instead focused on the lowest-level "bashing" Iain could excise from the board, in order to I suppose prove his point and make all of it look like gutter-level sniping. Which, as others have said, I found to be a pretty glaring flaw of his article considering we could read both the raw data as posted here and the finished result which had been selectively edited and excised to paint the worst picture of this board and people among the fanbase who may have issues with Mike's actions or words.

Selective editing is a dangerous tool when in the wrong journalistic hands, but one bonus of a message board is how anyone can now go back to that thread and see some of the comments Iain either ignored or conveniently left out in order to sell the premise of his article. And they can see all the "nice people" calling for his head when they thought he was here to bash Mike. It's not the same demographic Iain is currently railing against on his social media network, and the nice place.

So, that's where all of that came from. It's funny to see how things get flipped and the facts distorted or changed entirely over time and with changing agendas.

[HeyJude]

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

To be honest, a main reason why I doubt the assumption that people thought much about his article one way or the other is that I think many didn't and still haven't read it.

How many here, especially outside the UK, wanted to pay a pretty hefty price tag for an imported issue of a magazine for one article? I don't think a lot people wanted to shell out $10 at Barnes and Noble for one issue of this magazine, and it appears you *still*  can't even read the article online without a subscription to the magazine.

The impression I got is that he started the "why do you hate Mike Love?" thread, wrote the article, and was all giddy and "tee hee hee!" about it because he knew he had done a bit of a "bait and switch", and then hoped and assumed (wrongly as it turned out) that he would *blow everyone's mind* and piss everybody off with his article. I think not only did he *want* that reaction, but he kinda didn't even really get a big reaction out of it and had to kinda make up some of the "reaction" part of it too.

So not only is the "reaction" as he later characterized it one that he desired in my opinion, but I think he also had to kind of exaggerate the level of interest and simple readership, because few US fans (and probably other fans around the world) were going to pay the price of a CD to buy an issue of Record Collector for his one article.

[thorgil]

I used to be a fan of Mike's. Still a fan of his contributions to my favourite group ever, and especially of his stellar bass/baritone voice.
Like Billy, I probably like Looking Back With Love more than Imagination. If "Mike Love Not War" (would have been the best title ever!) had been released, I'd have bought it!
But... I lost any patience I had about his interviews/lawsuits/books/whatever shenanigans, and most of all about many of his "fans". People who defend the indefensible. Who sometimes try to rewrite known history, and will ignore evidence if it doesn't meet their agenda. Who won't miss any chance to provoke and insult anybody who is perceived as a "Brianista".
By the way, I'd like to understand how could "Brianista" ever been meant as an insult by so-called BEACH BOYS FANS. I mean, who else composed 90% of all that wonderful music? Mysteries...
And, no, death threats may be not serious (hopefully!), but aren't particularly funny. Ever.  
This board, thanks to Charles, Billy, Craig and all the good people here, ROCKS. More than ever.

[rab2591]

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

To be honest, a main reason why I doubt the assumption that people thought much about his article one way or the other is that I think many didn't and still haven't read it.

How many here, especially outside the UK, wanted to pay a pretty hefty price tag for an imported issue of a magazine for one article? I don't think a lot people wanted to shell out $10 at Barnes and Noble for one issue of this magazine, and it appears you *still*  can't even read the article online without a subscription to the magazine.

The impression I got is that he started the "why do you hate Mike Love?" thread, wrote the article, and was all giddy and "tee hee hee!" about it because he knew he had done a bit of a "bait and switch", and then hoped and assumed (wrongly as it turned out) that he would *blow everyone's mind* and piss everybody off with his article. I think not only did he *want* that reaction, but he kinda didn't even really get a big reaction out of it and had to kinda make up some of the "reaction" part of it too.

So not only is the "reaction" as he later characterized it one that he desired, but I think he also had to kind of exaggerate the level of interest and simple readership, because few US fans (and probably other fans around the world) were going to pay the price of a CD to buy an issue of Record Collector for his one article.

This is a very good point. I noticed the thread where Iain announced that the article had been released was only four pages long (as opposed to the 37 pages his initial "why do you hate Mike Love" thread got). His article wasn't controversial in the conventional sense, and it raised a lot of good points about Mike Love (those parts were actually an enjoyable read). The perplexing part of his article was what was missing. Sure, some fans despise Kokomo and a few can't stand his voice - but do those irritations take precedence over the bleedin obvious controversies Mike has sparked with his comments about Brian in recent years? Does his feud with Dennis hold a candle to how fans feel about Mike's lawsuits? I think not. I wish everyone here had had the opportunity to read the article - because the void of any mention of the lawsuits or Mike's recent comments about Brian are completely mind-blowing.

[Emily]

Of course, if one looks at this through a Trump lens, Iain Lee's become the most talked-about person among Beach Boys fans, and has probably gained some fairly devoted fans himself.

[CenturyDeprived]

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

That's literally nearly the entire reason for the friction between the online communities of the BBs.  Some things are just not excusable, but some fans have the inclination to proactively go out of their way to defend certain things that are indefensible. WHY??? Is the whole reason that happens simply because they think he's getting too much unfair hatred about other stuff (absolutely true), so it's best to just defend every single thing - without nuance to admit that some things are just sh*tty, period - in an attempt to just paint him in an overall better light? I just don't get it.

Like why every single BB fan, including FDP, including Mott, can't just say Mike's a giant hypocrite (for example) for Mike's putting down of Brian for Brian's use of Autotune, when Mike unquestionably uses pitch correction (or actual Autotune) - and poorly -  on his own stuff. How on earth is stating that Mike's being a big hypocrite about that topic any kind of arguable statement?  

And Mike's one to talk about Brian getting fat. Mike has probably given more business to tailors to give more slack to his shirts in the last few years than he has paid in alimony. Which, I should add, I could care less about. It's just the hypocrisy that bugs the sh*t out of me, and that's the only reason I mentioned it, and bust his balls about that topic. With Mike's hypocrisy so blatant (these are just a couple of minor examples), why is it a mystery to anyone such as Iain why people have a problem with many of Mike's actions?

Mike has made some rad musical contributions, but that doesn't give him carte blanche to act like a hypocritical tool (with the additional unattractive quality of being self-righteous about it) whenever he chooses, even if his feelings are hurt about other legit things.

The sooner ALL fans can agree on that, the less enabled Mike will be to put his foot in his mouth (and get away with it by having people defending such actions online). Mike's biggest fans should *want* Mike to make less of an ass out of himself in interviews. Stop the defense and stop the enabling.

[thorgil]

Of course, if one looks at this through a Trump lens, Iain Lee's become the most talked-about person among Beach Boys fans, and has probably gained some fairly devoted fans himself.

Sure! If you want fans but know no other way, just be an "arsehole" (the real thing, not the supposed Smiley Smile version). Your fellows will flock to you!

[drbeachboy]

The humor in the situation is how when Iain first appeared with his "Why Do People Hate Mike Love" thread, many of the same people now embracing him and joining him on the "nice" place were the ones calling him a troll, calling for him to be removed and the thread locked or deleted, and openly challenging his motives and even attacking him personally. And the reason why centered around the assumption that his post was going to be an exercise in "Mike Bashing", and that he was here to start a round of Mike bashing, i.e. "trolling".

Then when it further developed, his article which he was purportedly "researching" via his posting experiment here seemed to ignore or leave out many of the actual insightful comments and opinions, and instead focused on the lowest-level "bashing" Iain could excise from the board, in order to I suppose prove his point and make all of it look like gutter-level sniping. Which, as others have said, I found to be a pretty glaring flaw of his article considering we could read both the raw data as posted here and the finished result which had been selectively edited and excised to paint the worst picture of this board and people among the fanbase who may have issues with Mike's actions or words.

Selective editing is a dangerous tool when in the wrong journalistic hands, but one bonus of a message board is how anyone can now go back to that thread and see some of the comments Iain either ignored or conveniently left out in order to sell the premise of his article. And they can see all the "nice people" calling for his head when they thought he was here to bash Mike. It's not the same demographic Iain is currently railing against on his social media network, and the nice place.

So, that's where all of that came from. It's funny to see how things get flipped and the facts distorted or changed entirely over time and with changing agendas.

Just to be clear, I stated in PSF that I in fact was one of those people here that was calling him out when he opened that thread on Mike. Still, what he did here is yours and Billy's concern, not mine. You do as you see fit.

[thorgil]

Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there", in the a "Refugee from the Dark Side*" thread). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly - pun intended - peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.

* It's surreal. Now we are "the Dark Side". But then, having suffered from asthma all my life, probably a Darth Vader costume would fit me...

[drbeachboy]

Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.

You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...

[SMiLE Brian]

Good riddance to that bunch.

[drbeachboy]

Good riddance to that bunch.

Right back atcha, fellow.

[SMiLE Brian]

Now go kneel at the feet of your mega mod....

[thorgil]

Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.

You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...

Craig is not my "leader" in any way (I don't have one). He's one of the most savvy Beach Boys scholars I know, and one of our two excellent moderators.

[HeyJude]

Can we just close this thread now? As much as it turns my brain to mush trying reason out why a procession of people who *hate* this board so much seem to not be able to resist continuing to be here, I imagine we've exhausted the exploration of Mr. Lee until or unless some other information pops up.

[thorgil]

Agreed.

[drbeachboy]

Now go kneel at the feet of your mega mod....

Kind of ironic coming from you, wouldn't you say, considering...