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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: guitarfool2002 on August 31, 2016, 08:42:02 PM



Title: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: "I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody."
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 31, 2016, 08:42:02 PM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)




Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on August 31, 2016, 08:53:07 PM
(https://65.media.tumblr.com/ceb8b872cc857729af6f1bf6d5f47d4b/tumblr_ocg1zmltUT1qzd1yeo1_400.jpg)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: 18thofMay on August 31, 2016, 09:02:45 PM
Wanker


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 31, 2016, 09:03:39 PM
What do you expect from a 3rd rate british  version of Bubba the Love Sponge?

edit...


heh...'Love' sponge....cause he sponges up all of Mike's 'Love'.

I made a funny!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 12:58:25 AM
This guy is a 'wanker'. He wants to kill every member here? Glad he put that out there...perhaps he's not sure how the law works? Now *THAT* is a 'wanker'. What a fucking tool.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 01, 2016, 01:09:54 AM
What do you expect from a 3rd rate british  version of Bubba the Love Sponge?

edit...


heh...'Love' sponge....cause he sponges up all of Mike's 'Love'.

I made a funny!


2025: Iain befriends a depressed former WWE wrestler Bad News Barrett and offers up his wife to cheer the guy up. He then secretly tapes the encounter and leaks it to Gawker, not knowing that Gawker ceased to be in 2016.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 01:15:37 AM
Quote
2025: Iain befriends a depressed former WWE wrestler Bad News Barrett and offers up his wife to cheer the guy up. He then secretly tapes the encounter and leaks it to Gawker, not knowing that Gawker ceased to be in 2016.


(http://fullredneck.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Hulk-Hogan-Meme-12.jpg)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 01, 2016, 01:40:16 AM
Note to the 'nicer' board. Your call, but the 'arseholes' here would ban this tool.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: JK on September 01, 2016, 01:49:24 AM
Just when the air seemed to have finally cleared and the two boards could get on with their lives. Pity.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 01, 2016, 02:02:09 AM
It's very much a Wilson/Love type vibe going on at the moment between the camps boards.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on September 01, 2016, 02:30:00 AM
 :jedi
this is becoming my favoritve emoji, I can use it for nearly every post and topic these days.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 01, 2016, 02:37:27 AM
:jedi
this is becoming my favoritve emoji, I can use it for nearly every post and topic these days.

Well there are at least two super-annoying people (IMO) on that board (who shall remain unnamed) so in my mind it's got 2 strikes against it already. That being said, can't we all just get along (both forums I mean)?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on September 01, 2016, 02:42:38 AM
I'm on both boards, am I a suspect?  :o


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 01, 2016, 02:45:30 AM
....or the potential mass murderer?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: JK on September 01, 2016, 02:57:51 AM
I'm on both boards, am I a suspect?  :o

Certainly not. I'd say you were a credit to both boards. :=)

can't we all just get along (both forums I mean)?

Yes, I'm sure the two can get along. In fact it's already been that way for quite long stretches at a time...


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on September 01, 2016, 03:10:04 AM
gee, I wish both boards could get along in all seriousness, we are all supposed to be here
to love and share our joy for this wonderful band, it's members and fellow contributors.
sometimes we all need to pull our heads in for stepping over a line, we are human at the
end of the day.  Occasionally it takes someone else to tell us 'hey', then we have to process that
and then react. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree on certain things that come along
because we can all be pretty head strong when we feel we are right.
easier said than done I know, but, if it keeps the peace, it would make everything worthwhile.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 01, 2016, 03:27:06 AM
gee, I wish both boards could get along in all seriousness, we are all supposed to be here
to love and share our joy for this wonderful band, it's members and fellow contributors.
sometimes we all need to pull our heads in for stepping over a line, we are human at the
end of the day.  Occasionally it takes someone else to tell us 'hey', then we have to process that
and then react. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree on certain things that come along
because we can all be pretty head strong when we feel we are right.
easier said than done I know, but, if it keeps the peace, it would make everything worthwhile.


Peace is overrated. I kid.  :p


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Ang Jones on September 01, 2016, 03:41:52 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.







Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 01, 2016, 05:58:09 AM
He says we're batshit, but he's the one who said he wants to kill us.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Lee Marshall on September 01, 2016, 06:02:59 AM
In NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM are we "the biggest bunch of arseholes online."  Now that Iain's not here anymore it's become a complete impossibility.  He is the scale-tipper...the difference maker...the ass-hole enchilada.

Now?

This place has the 2nd "biggest bunch of arseholes online".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't believe I'm still alive. :hat


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 06:25:19 AM
gee, I wish both boards could get along in all seriousness, we are all supposed to be here
to love and share our joy for this wonderful band, it's members and fellow contributors.
sometimes we all need to pull our heads in for stepping over a line, we are human at the
end of the day.  Occasionally it takes someone else to tell us 'hey', then we have to process that
and then react. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree on certain things that come along
because we can all be pretty head strong when we feel we are right.
easier said than done I know, but, if it keeps the peace, it would make everything worthwhile.


This is the best, most logical, post I've seen on here in quite some time. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SurferDownUnder on September 01, 2016, 06:26:36 AM
Luckily for me I don't give a f*** what he thinks anyway  :afro


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 01, 2016, 06:27:26 AM
hehe! :lol

For the genius of Iain Lee.... ::)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 06:29:50 AM
Very disappointing. It's worth pointing out that that video comes from June 15th (at the latest), and yet he spent 2 and 1/2 more months on a board he seemingly detested so much and whose members he had that level of animosity and disdain for.

Mere days ago, 2 1/2 months after his comments in that video, he posted this:

I get the feeling some people don't like me here. If I've done anything wrong, I apologise. Should I see myself out? I really don't want to be somewhere where people aggressively dislike me. (You'll say no one has been aggressive except me...ok...eye of the beholder and all that)

Serious question. I like the BB. I like talking about the BB. This thread is no a sh*t stirring thread. Swear on my life that's not why I started it. I assumed a few more of you might had proofs and heck, it comes out soon. This was a genuine attempt to get a conversation going. But. There are a few of you who won't believe that and so constantly take shots and have digs at me. If you'd rather I left, I'll go.


That someone would say, outside of the board, such bile-filled things about the board (even if done in a "comedic" setting), and then post months later playing the "victim" and seemingly not understanding why people might dislike him or take issue with his comments, tells me he was either "punking" the board all along and purposely being a sh*t-disturber and essentially what I believe in wrestling would be called "the heel" (no, I haven't watched wrestling since I was about five years old), and/or he just really likes being dramatic and maudlin when people don't agree with him.

Maybe it's a bit of both, but his first posts on the board (Why do you hate Mike Love?, or wording something along those lines), coupled with making the comments in that video and then *continuing* to post on the board for months suggests to me it's mostly about just being a s**t-disturber. I have no reason to doubt he likes the BBs, but perhaps because he's a "comedian" by some definition, he continued to willingly play that "heel" role here and then relish not only the criticism, but the resulting "playing the victim" bit in the aftermath.

As I told him directly in a recent thread, I feel he pretty much *used* the board to manufacture ammo in his pro-Mike article. I presume he left out of his article that he had to troll a board to elicit what he felt were negative comments about Mike.

So he started his time here as a literal s**t-disturber, and apparently for the length of his time here continued to vacillate between s**t-disturbing and then incredulously wondering why people didn't "like" him more.

I get the sense, and this is being as generous as possible, that he both wanted to be a s**t-disturber and also wanted to be, on his own terms, a nerdy BB fan and chat about the band. He wanted it both ways.

To get things a bit more back on topic and not about a person, I also sense he's a younger (relatively) and newer fan of the band, and as I've been saying, I think there's a small "new wave" of fans who haven't spent decades being into the band haven't had Mike Love challenging their bulls**t detector for all that time, so they're more likely to seem confused as to the level of animosity and criticism leveled towards Love.

If you've gotten into the band in the last 5-10 years, you've been able to become *very quickly* a near-expert on the band via Wikipedia, other websites, *this* board (ironically), and so on. There are a million online resources, tons of books, and downloading all of the band's stuff (both official and otherwise) is now just a click away. So you can absorb all of that without having nearly as much context about things like the ills that Mike Love has inflicted over the years (and not just Mike but a myriad of things that *contextualize* the band's history).


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: kermit27 on September 01, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
I don't think I've ever seen fans of a band who are like fans of the Beach Boys.  Weirdest group of people.   :-D


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 07:36:40 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling. 

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert. 

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me. 

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 07:37:18 AM
I guess maybe because I've been on the internet for now over 20 years, I've seen far, far weirder groups of fans. Even just among music fans.

This place is often more analytical than other places, but that's what separates it from the "everything is awesome!!!!" communities online. With all due respect, I'm glad this board isn't the "Endless Summer Quarterly" of message boards. Those things have their place too.

I *do* think there are very few cases where a main member of a band has such a large number of detractors among that band's actual hardcore fans. And while I think as fans some self-reflection is always important; we do need to look at how we're acting and our attitudes, I think that interesting factoid about BB fans has far more to do with *Mike Love* than it does the fans. The fans aren't the ones saying and doing all of the things Mike says and does.

I was talking awhile back with someone and we were trying to determine if a George Lucas-Mike Love analogy was apt enough. That is, a main creative figure in a franchise where huge droves of fans heap such scorn. I think the analogy is good enough to make a very general comparison, but I don't think even George Lucas is quite as deserving of the criticism quite as much as Mike is.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 07:46:09 AM
I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling.  

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert.  

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me.  

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love.  

I think the problem, though, is that valid criticism in response to a specific issue (e.g. a Mike interview) is lumped in with "blind hatred."

I also think Mr. Lee doesn't come to such a conversation with much credibility, as he came on the board and egged on what he knew was such a divisive issue. He *starts* a thread about why people don't like Mike Love, and then complains about there being too many posters criticizing Mike? He *literally* asked for it!

That it eventually became obvious that he simply used the board to supplement an article he was writing (rather than doing actual research and reading the board's TEN YEARS of posts to learn more than anything he would ever need to know to write such an article) made the whole thing even more troubling.

A conversation about fan negativity is one worth having. But the guy who stoked the flames, then said pretty nasty stuff about the fan community, and then continued to post here, is *not* someone with credibility to speak to such a conversation.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
I guess maybe because I've been on the internet for now over 20 years, I've seen far, far weirder groups of fans. Even just among music fans.

This place is often more analytical than other places, but that's what separates it from the "everything is awesome!!!!" communities online. With all due respect, I'm glad this board isn't the "Endless Summer Quarterly" of message boards. Those things have their place too.

I *do* think there are very few cases where a main member of a band has such a large number of detractors among that band's actual hardcore fans. And while I think as fans some self-reflection is always important; we do need to look at how we're acting and our attitudes, I think that interesting factoid about BB fans has far more to do with *Mike Love* than it does the fans. The fans aren't the ones saying and doing all of the things Mike says and does.

I was talking awhile back with someone and we were trying to determine if a George Lucas-Mike Love analogy was apt enough. That is, a main creative figure in a franchise where huge droves of fans heap such scorn. I think the analogy is good enough to make a very general comparison, but I don't think even George Lucas is quite as deserving of the criticism quite as much as Mike is.  

I've been on a lot of band/artists boards, and I've seen some divisive band members (Gene Simmons of KISS comes to mind).

But, I've never seen fans who defend those members get attacked and accused of "being on payroll."  So, it's not so much the dislike of Mike that I have an issue with, it's the venom and ridiculous conspiracy stuff directed as fans who dare say something nice about Mike (ie. a poster supposedly being supplied concert tickets by Mike's camp).  

Example, roughly 20 years ago, when Pink Floyd was still an active band, there were the Roger fans v the Dave Fans, but I never saw a fan who praised The Division Bell or P.U.L.S.E. get accused of being on David Gilmour's payroll.  Same with the Sammy Hagar v David Lee Roth thing.  

I think fans can disagree and still be civil and respectful.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 07:56:19 AM
Luckily for me I don't give a f*** what he thinks anyway  :afro

Yes - He talks out of his a**, pretty much all the time, and with the right group of people who know nothing about his subject matter, gets some chuckles.  I loved it when, in the same post after replying to my calling him out on his previous SS bullsh*t, he told me to "calm down" (you know, the "little woman was all emotional," right?), he immediately then starts his little girl pout about how maybe people don't like him and maybe he should take his toys and go from the board. If the PS board wants him, great.  I'll never go there anyway, so I won't have to endure this fool again, that is, unless he sends a hit man to my house.

This clearly is the year of the completely reckless, semi-literate clown getting lots of air-time.  Hopefully, we've seen the last of this one.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 08:00:22 AM
The "payroll" stuff gets way too muddy, because I think sometimes it's meant a bit more figuratively.

I tend to doubt much of anyone literally puts fans on the payroll, like actually paying them money, to say nice things about them (and/or attack the "opposition").

It's a much more subtle, muddy situation. It's more like there is a very small number of people who are not objective because of perks or simply out of being in the vicinity of one particular member of the group.

If someone gets free tickets or free backstage passes all the time, and/or gets other stuff comped by, let's say Mike, and they also regularly defend Mike (sometimes against pretty indefensible stuff) and also tend to, say, criticize Brian more, I would question that person's objectivity. It doesn't mean they're literally "on the payroll."

Even muddier is the seeming "objective" fan or journalist who only has regular contact with one member. So someone who is, let's say for example, on the outs with Brian's "camp" but regularly talks to Mike and people in Mike's camp, who gets backstage passes and whatnot, they get all of their information and "intel" from one source. They may either turn their blinders on or genuinely (and naively) believe what they're "hearing" is the full truth and act accordingly. They talk to Mike, Mike's nice to them. Maybe they hear a bunch of negative stuff about Brian and Brian's camp when they run in those circles. So then maybe some stuff that reflects pretty negatively on Mike is ignored, and things that might reflect negatively on Brian (or Al) are highlighted.

There are plenty (in fact most) of people on this board who are fans and nothing more, never talk to any insiders or anyone from any "camps."

But there are folks who *do* talk to one, two, or all "sides." Some of those folks have their head screwed on straight and can remain analytical and objective as they take in all of this "intel" and information. Others, either through an agenda or opinion they already have, and/or because of the "input" they get from one "side", run with that and end up potentially compromising any objectivity by feeling the need to defend that "side."


Title: every member of this forum should be thrown into a creek
Post by: halblaineisgood on September 01, 2016, 08:01:58 AM
noun, Chiefly New York State.
1.
a channel; creek; stream; river: used especially in place names:
Kill Van Kull.





Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 08:12:30 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling. 

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert. 

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me. 

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love. 

Please specify who these people are who express "outright hatred" for Mike.  What attacks do Mike's fans endure that are any worse than the attacks/challenges that Brian supporters have faced here, whether it's about recorded music, concerts, whatever?

As I said before, I've never seen a death threat against Mike here, yet I just saw one against me - most of us, I guess - by some disingenuous semi-comedian (Pickle Brothers, anyone?) for posting a challenge to the little whiner's intentions.  I think he's proven my point about why he was here.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 08:13:14 AM
The "payroll" stuff gets way too muddy, because I think sometimes it's meant a bit more figuratively.

I tend to doubt much of anyone literally puts fans on the payroll, like actually paying them money, to say nice things about them (and/or attack the "opposition").

It's a much more subtle, muddy situation. It's more like there is a very small number of people who are not objective because of perks or simply out of being in the vicinity of one particular member of the group.

If someone gets free tickets or free backstage passes all the time, and/or gets other stuff comped by, let's say Mike, and they also regularly defend Mike (sometimes against pretty indefensible stuff) and also tend to, say, criticize Brian more, I would question that person's objectivity. It doesn't mean they're literally "on the payroll."

Even muddier is the seeming "objective" fan or journalist who only has regular contact with one member. So someone who is, let's say for example, on the outs with Brian's "camp" but regularly talks to Mike and people in Mike's camp, who gets backstage passes and whatnot, they get all of their information and "intel" from one source. They may either turn their blinders on or genuinely (and naively) believe what they're "hearing" is the full truth and act accordingly. They talk to Mike, Mike's nice to them. Maybe they hear a bunch of negative stuff about Brian and Brian's camp when they run in those circles. So then maybe some stuff that reflects pretty negatively on Mike is ignored, and things that might reflect negatively on Brian (or Al) are highlighted.

There are plenty (in fact most) of people on this board who are fans and nothing more, never talk to any insiders or anyone from any "camps."

But there are folks who *do* talk to one, two, or all "sides." Some of those folks have their head screwed on straight and can remain analytical and objective as they take in all of this "intel" and information. Others, either through an agenda or opinion they already have, and/or because of the "input" they get from one "side", run with that and end up potentially compromising any objectivity by feeling the need to defend that "side."

I don't doubt there are people on this board who are legit fans with no ties (like myself), and oftentimes fans are the ones who're called "fools" by one side or another because we don't pick a side......or we pick the "wrong" side.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 01, 2016, 08:14:06 AM
No, I'm never going to be friends with anyone who says he's gladly kill me and my friends (hopefully not serious) and calls me and my friends the worst "arseholes" in the Internet (and this IS serious).
Not with anyone (namely, the Pet Sounds forum) who gladly hosts such a "tool".
Sorry, kds. Universal peace is impossible, as much as I'd wish for it.
I tend to take death threats, and heavy insults, seriously. My bad, I know.  >:D


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 08:23:25 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling. 

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert. 

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me. 

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love. 

Please specify who these people are who express "outright hatred" for Mike.  What attacks do Mike's fans endure that are any worse than the attacks/challenges that Brian supporters have faced here, whether it's about recorded music, concerts, whatever?

As I said before, I've never seen a death threat against Mike here, yet I just saw one against me - most of us, I guess - by some disingenuous semi-comedian (Pickle Brothers, anyone?) for posting a challenge to the little whiner's intentions.  I think he's proven my point about why he was here.

It's not just specifically Mike's fans who get attacked.  Debbie, you always go on the offensive anytime a fan posts a review of a Brian show who says things like "Brian seemed out of it,"  "Brian wasn't as engaged as one show or another,"  or "Brian's vocals were off this particular night" regardless of the fact that said poster may be posting a positive review of the concert, you harp on the one criticism and accuse that person of "not getting it."  Debbie, you have a unique insight into the world of the Beach Boys, but instead of sharing your knowledge with fans, you seem to be more interested in putting them down.  

I didn't mention anything about death threats, and I'm not speaking specifically about Ian's comments.  I'm just speaking specifically to the root of the issue most people seem to have with this Board.  

As I'm sure you know, I'm on this board as well as Brian's Board, and the Pet Sounds Board.  On both the BW Board and the PS Board, it seems fans can disagree and keep it civil, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  

I'm not particularly interested in putting one side against another because, shouldn't we all be on the same side?  Aren't we all Beach Boys fans at the end of the day?  Regardless of whether or not we put Love You in our top three albums.  Or enjoy listening to Kokomo on a summer day.  Or don't much care of the No Pier Pressure album.   Or enjoy seeing Brian's band more than Mike's, or vice versa.  Or pine for another C50 style reunion.  



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 08:26:44 AM
No, I'm never going to be friends with anyone who says he's gladly kill me and my friends (hopefully not serious) and calls me and my friends the worst "arseholes" in the Internet (and this IS serious).
Not with anyone (namely, the Pet Sounds forum) who gladly hosts such a "tool".
Sorry, kds. Universal peace is impossible, as much as I'd wish for it.
I tend to take death threats, and heavy insults, seriously. My bad, I know. Evil

Universal peace is impossible.  And I'm not here to defend a death threat. 

But, I find it childish and silly for fans of the same band to fight to the point that a rival board needed to be created. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 08:52:49 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling.  

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert.  

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me.  

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love.  

Please specify who these people are who express "outright hatred" for Mike.  What attacks do Mike's fans endure that are any worse than the attacks/challenges that Brian supporters have faced here, whether it's about recorded music, concerts, whatever?

As I said before, I've never seen a death threat against Mike here, yet I just saw one against me - most of us, I guess - by some disingenuous semi-comedian (Pickle Brothers, anyone?) for posting a challenge to the little whiner's intentions.  I think he's proven my point about why he was here.

It's not just specifically Mike's fans who get attacked.  Debbie, you always go on the offensive anytime a fan posts a review of a Brian show who says things like "Brian seemed out of it,"  "Brian wasn't as engaged as one show or another,"  or "Brian's vocals were off this particular night" regardless of the fact that said poster may be posting a positive review of the concert, you harp on the one criticism and accuse that person of "not getting it."  Debbie, you have a unique insight into the world of the Beach Boys, but instead of sharing your knowledge with fans, you seem to be more interested in putting them down.  

I didn't mention anything about death threats, and I'm not speaking specifically about Ian's comments.  I'm just speaking specifically to the root of the issue most people seem to have with this Board.  

As I'm sure you know, I'm on this board as well as Brian's Board, and the Pet Sounds Board.  On both the BW Board and the PS Board, it seems fans can disagree and keep it civil, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  

I'm not particularly interested in putting one side against another because, shouldn't we all be on the same side?  Aren't we all Beach Boys fans at the end of the day?  Regardless of whether or not we put Love You in our top three albums.  Or enjoy listening to Kokomo on a summer day.  Or don't much care of the No Pier Pressure album.   Or enjoy seeing Brian's band more than Mike's, or vice versa.  Or pine for another C50 style reunion.  



I do point out to people that certain gestures and facial expressions of Brian's don't mean what they think when he's onstage.  I thought that was offering insights on how to "get" Brian.  Apparently not?  I didn't realize that I was "going on the offensive."  

I did point out that uneven vocals in live shows may have a lot to do with NOT using vocal processing when performing onstage.  Brian has, oddly, been accused of vocal processing at the same time that he's accused of being "uneven."  I found that hypocritical from Mike's fans when some videos I've seen online of Mike's band (apparently live?) certainly reek of those tools.  I thought maybe it was something to do with the poster adding this until Stephen Desper - a man I used to love watch working the board both in the studio and at BB concerts - came away from an M&B concert with the conclusion that this was what Mike's band was doing at a fairly recent show.  And he posted it here and I appreciated his honest clarification of what I was hearing.

Does that make me a "Mike hater?"  Seriously, I'd like to know.

Believe it or not, I talk to "both sides" as well.  I just despise lies and hypocrisy and it shows, I guess.  I do try to educate, and I guess some sensitive types get their feelings hurt. It wasn't my intention.  I just don't know how fragile some people are or aren't.

I know you weren't the one to claim death threats against Mike.  That would have been Mike's SS online attorney who was attempting to derail, yet another thread.

But I just had a death threat launched against me.  Having that idiot call me an "arsehole" is something I took as a compliment.  I'm glad I got under his thin skin.  Should I be ignoring that because, you know, we fans all have to get along?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Ang Jones on September 01, 2016, 08:54:41 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 08:58:37 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling. 

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert. 

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me. 

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love. 

Please specify who these people are who express "outright hatred" for Mike.  What attacks do Mike's fans endure that are any worse than the attacks/challenges that Brian supporters have faced here, whether it's about recorded music, concerts, whatever?

As I said before, I've never seen a death threat against Mike here, yet I just saw one against me - most of us, I guess - by some disingenuous semi-comedian (Pickle Brothers, anyone?) for posting a challenge to the little whiner's intentions.  I think he's proven my point about why he was here.

It's not just specifically Mike's fans who get attacked.  Debbie, you always go on the offensive anytime a fan posts a review of a Brian show who says things like "Brian seemed out of it,"  "Brian wasn't as engaged as one show or another,"  or "Brian's vocals were off this particular night" regardless of the fact that said poster may be posting a positive review of the concert, you harp on the one criticism and accuse that person of "not getting it."  Debbie, you have a unique insight into the world of the Beach Boys, but instead of sharing your knowledge with fans, you seem to be more interested in putting them down.  

I didn't mention anything about death threats, and I'm not speaking specifically about Ian's comments.  I'm just speaking specifically to the root of the issue most people seem to have with this Board.  

As I'm sure you know, I'm on this board as well as Brian's Board, and the Pet Sounds Board.  On both the BW Board and the PS Board, it seems fans can disagree and keep it civil, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  

I'm not particularly interested in putting one side against another because, shouldn't we all be on the same side?  Aren't we all Beach Boys fans at the end of the day?  Regardless of whether or not we put Love You in our top three albums.  Or enjoy listening to Kokomo on a summer day.  Or don't much care of the No Pier Pressure album.   Or enjoy seeing Brian's band more than Mike's, or vice versa.  Or pine for another C50 style reunion.  



I do point out to people that certain gestures and facial expressions of Brian's don't mean what they think when he's onstage.  I thought that was offering insights on how to "get" Brian.  Apparently not?  I didn't realize that I was "going on the offensive."  

I did point out that uneven vocals in live shows may have a lot to do with NOT using vocal processing when performing onstage.  Brian has, oddly, been accused of vocal processing at the same time that he's accused of being "uneven."  I found that hypocritical from Mike's fans when some videos I've seen online of Mike's band (apparently live?) certainly reek of those tools.  I thought maybe it was something to do with the poster adding this until Stephen Desper - a man I used to love watch working the board both in the studio and at BB concerts - came away from an M&B concert with the conclusion that this was what Mike's band was doing at a fairly recent show.  And he posted it here and I appreciated his honest clarification of what I was hearing.

Does that make me a "Mike hater?"  Seriously, I'd like to know.

Believe it or not, I talk to "both sides" as well.  I just despise lies and hypocrisy and it shows, I guess.  I do try to educate, and I guess some sensitive types get their feelings hurt. It wasn't my intention.  I just don't know how fragile some people are or aren't.

I know you weren't the one to claim death threats against Mike.  That would have been Mike's SS online attorney who was attempting to derail, yet another thread.

But I just had a death threat launched against me.  Having that idiot call me an "arsehole" is something I took as a compliment.  I'm glad I got under his thin skin.  Should I be ignoring that because, you know, we fans all have to get along.

Debbie, you may have been trying to offer insights at how to better enjoy a Brian Wilson concert, but it doesn't often come out that way.  I'm just paraphrasing here.  But I've seen you address such posters saying things to the likes of "this is BS" or "why can't you stop complaining and enjoy" to that effect.  Maybe if you used a little more tact, you can actually help out some fans who're new to the fold, and maybe not quite aware of Brian's tenancies on the stage. 

I never said you were a Mike hater, and there you are, getting defensive.  I'm just trying to have a dialog. 



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 09:08:19 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 09:22:12 AM
I would, as objectively and humbly as possible, suggest that if you joined the board in the last year or so and may not have experienced much or any of the first ten years of this board, I would say it may have been those no longer here that contributed heavily to the perceived problems on this board.

Just because another board was created with a very small pool of members/posters, still in the "new relationship" phase, and there aren't fights breaking out left and right, it doesn't mean the people on *that* board had nothing to do with the problems that led them to their new board.

What I don't understand is the continued references to this board on the new board. Even when people there post the reasons they like the new board, they have to mention *not* just things they like about the new board, but reference *this* board. Ironically, it reminds me a bit of when Mike is asked why he has maintained his health, and rather than say what he *is* doing and has done (living a healthy lifestyle, etc.), he has to instead mention the bad things the Wilsons did that he *didn't* do.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 09:23:14 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 

I'm guessing you never saw the "Cab Board", "Male Ego" board, "Shut Down", "The Smile Shop", etc in their heyday?

The myth that everyone got along and all was peace love and flowers until this board came along is a load of bull. Ask those who were there and maybe those who were banned from those forums too, KDS.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2016, 09:27:18 AM
The "payroll" stuff gets way too muddy, because I think sometimes it's meant a bit more figuratively.

I tend to doubt much of anyone literally puts fans on the payroll, like actually paying them money, to say nice things about them (and/or attack the "opposition").

It's a much more subtle, muddy situation. It's more like there is a very small number of people who are not objective because of perks or simply out of being in the vicinity of one particular member of the group.

If someone gets free tickets or free backstage passes all the time, and/or gets other stuff comped by, let's say Mike, and they also regularly defend Mike (sometimes against pretty indefensible stuff) and also tend to, say, criticize Brian more, I would question that person's objectivity. It doesn't mean they're literally "on the payroll."

Even muddier is the seeming "objective" fan or journalist who only has regular contact with one member. So someone who is, let's say for example, on the outs with Brian's "camp" but regularly talks to Mike and people in Mike's camp, who gets backstage passes and whatnot, they get all of their information and "intel" from one source. They may either turn their blinders on or genuinely (and naively) believe what they're "hearing" is the full truth and act accordingly. They talk to Mike, Mike's nice to them. Maybe they hear a bunch of negative stuff about Brian and Brian's camp when they run in those circles. So then maybe some stuff that reflects pretty negatively on Mike is ignored, and things that might reflect negatively on Brian (or Al) are highlighted.

There are plenty (in fact most) of people on this board who are fans and nothing more, never talk to any insiders or anyone from any "camps."

But there are folks who *do* talk to one, two, or all "sides." Some of those folks have their head screwed on straight and can remain analytical and objective as they take in all of this "intel" and information. Others, either through an agenda or opinion they already have, and/or because of the "input" they get from one "side", run with that and end up potentially compromising any objectivity by feeling the need to defend that "side."

The whole idea of "payroll" as a thing that actually happens shouldn't be *that* preposterous. Whether anyone thinks anything remotely of that nature has ever happened in regards to this band is one thing, but nobody should be naive enough to think that stuff never happens in the entertainment industry or with politicians.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 09:32:57 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 

I'm guessing you never saw the "Cab Board", "Male Ego" board, "Shut Down", "The Smile Shop", etc in their heyday?

The myth that everyone got along and all was peace love and flowers until this board came along is a load of bull. Ask those who were there and maybe those who were banned from those forums too, KDS.

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.  

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 09:33:34 AM
The thing too is that when someone is accused of "being on the payroll" and immediately makes some joke about how they're "still waiting for a check in the mail" or something, *that's* why I think that, if the assertion is that someone is advocating for a "side" because of some sort of influence or perk, it has to be specified.

When someone says they're not getting checks in the mail, that doesn't address what other perks or influence may exist.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
The thing too is that when someone is accused of "being on the payroll" and immediately makes some joke about how they're "still waiting for a check in the mail" or something, *that's* why I think that, if the assertion is that someone is advocating for a "side" because of some sort of influence or perk, it has to be specified.

When someone says they're not getting checks in the mail, that doesn't address what other perks or influence may exist.

I think when one says they're waiting for their check, they're addressing the ridiculousness of the accusation. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2016, 09:41:41 AM
The thing too is that when someone is accused of "being on the payroll" and immediately makes some joke about how they're "still waiting for a check in the mail" or something, *that's* why I think that, if the assertion is that someone is advocating for a "side" because of some sort of influence or perk, it has to be specified.

When someone says they're not getting checks in the mail, that doesn't address what other perks or influence may exist.

I think when one says they're waiting for their check, they're addressing the ridiculousness of the accusation.  

I find it funny that it just so happens that the people who dodge the payroll question directly, or who don't address any other perks which may exist, just happen to be the people who dodge various questions (unrelated to "payroll") the most on this board. As in dodging a question in the middle of a back-and-forth conversation (again, unrelated to "payroll"). This is super rude and infuriating during a conversation supposedly between two mature adults.

And I only really see that happen from people from 1 side of the BB political spectrum (admittedly only a few people from that side do this dodging to that degree).  Why do you think that is? It's not an accident.

And I think the reason for this is because they *know* in their hearts that some things cannot be defended, but they are too stubborn to admit it for some strange reason - which again, begs the question of them potentially being incentivized.  And the worst part is - they won't even address the fact that they dodge questions. They dodge the questions about dodging questions. It's preposterous. THIS is the type of behavior which helps contribute to boards imploding. Because when someone has made an inarguable point, and someone else refuses to admit it... 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 09:42:15 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 

I'm guessing you never saw the "Cab Board", "Male Ego" board, "Shut Down", "The Smile Shop", etc in their heyday?

The myth that everyone got along and all was peace love and flowers until this board came along is a load of bull. Ask those who were there and maybe those who were banned from those forums too, KDS.

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

And your statement in bold is exactly what you're missing by making these overreaching comments about the boards. If you don't know the history, if you don't have the perspective or context, you don't know what preceded this board and who was involved (and banned) from some of those boards that you've never seen. Consider how many of the "conflicts" were the same actors doing and saying similar things a decade prior to you becoming a fan. It's a shame those boards collapsed and took their archives with them, it gave absolution and whitewash by default. Maybe you'd be able to see more of the background first before judging this or any other board as you've been doing.

It doesn't develop in a vacuum.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 09:43:26 AM
Iain Lee comments on the Smiley Smile board at 45:15 into the video. Published June 15th, Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast - with Iain Lee #101.

"I'd kill everybody on that board. Everybody, without shadow of a doubt, yeah."

https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s (https://youtu.be/fp8a_G6YsnA?t=45m15s)

Twitter today:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/iain%20lee%20tweet_zps5kcxonul.jpg)

'This place [Pet Sounds forum] seems nicer'? Ignorance is bliss. Instead of writing off all of those who dislike Mike Love, perhaps he should try to find out why. But if he has read the book and still doesn't know, I suppose there's no hope for him.






I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling. 

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert. 

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me. 

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love. 

Please specify who these people are who express "outright hatred" for Mike.  What attacks do Mike's fans endure that are any worse than the attacks/challenges that Brian supporters have faced here, whether it's about recorded music, concerts, whatever?

As I said before, I've never seen a death threat against Mike here, yet I just saw one against me - most of us, I guess - by some disingenuous semi-comedian (Pickle Brothers, anyone?) for posting a challenge to the little whiner's intentions.  I think he's proven my point about why he was here.

It's not just specifically Mike's fans who get attacked.  Debbie, you always go on the offensive anytime a fan posts a review of a Brian show who says things like "Brian seemed out of it,"  "Brian wasn't as engaged as one show or another,"  or "Brian's vocals were off this particular night" regardless of the fact that said poster may be posting a positive review of the concert, you harp on the one criticism and accuse that person of "not getting it."  Debbie, you have a unique insight into the world of the Beach Boys, but instead of sharing your knowledge with fans, you seem to be more interested in putting them down.  

I didn't mention anything about death threats, and I'm not speaking specifically about Ian's comments.  I'm just speaking specifically to the root of the issue most people seem to have with this Board.  

As I'm sure you know, I'm on this board as well as Brian's Board, and the Pet Sounds Board.  On both the BW Board and the PS Board, it seems fans can disagree and keep it civil, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  

I'm not particularly interested in putting one side against another because, shouldn't we all be on the same side?  Aren't we all Beach Boys fans at the end of the day?  Regardless of whether or not we put Love You in our top three albums.  Or enjoy listening to Kokomo on a summer day.  Or don't much care of the No Pier Pressure album.   Or enjoy seeing Brian's band more than Mike's, or vice versa.  Or pine for another C50 style reunion.  



I do point out to people that certain gestures and facial expressions of Brian's don't mean what they think when he's onstage.  I thought that was offering insights on how to "get" Brian.  Apparently not?  I didn't realize that I was "going on the offensive."  

I did point out that uneven vocals in live shows may have a lot to do with NOT using vocal processing when performing onstage.  Brian has, oddly, been accused of vocal processing at the same time that he's accused of being "uneven."  I found that hypocritical from Mike's fans when some videos I've seen online of Mike's band (apparently live?) certainly reek of those tools.  I thought maybe it was something to do with the poster adding this until Stephen Desper - a man I used to love watch working the board both in the studio and at BB concerts - came away from an M&B concert with the conclusion that this was what Mike's band was doing at a fairly recent show.  And he posted it here and I appreciated his honest clarification of what I was hearing.

Does that make me a "Mike hater?"  Seriously, I'd like to know.

Believe it or not, I talk to "both sides" as well.  I just despise lies and hypocrisy and it shows, I guess.  I do try to educate, and I guess some sensitive types get their feelings hurt. It wasn't my intention.  I just don't know how fragile some people are or aren't.

I know you weren't the one to claim death threats against Mike.  That would have been Mike's SS online attorney who was attempting to derail, yet another thread.

But I just had a death threat launched against me.  Having that idiot call me an "arsehole" is something I took as a compliment.  I'm glad I got under his thin skin.  Should I be ignoring that because, you know, we fans all have to get along.

Debbie, you may have been trying to offer insights at how to better enjoy a Brian Wilson concert, but it doesn't often come out that way.  I'm just paraphrasing here.  But I've seen you address such posters saying things to the likes of "this is BS" or "why can't you stop complaining and enjoy" to that effect.  Maybe if you used a little more tact, you can actually help out some fans who're new to the fold, and maybe not quite aware of Brian's tenancies on the stage. 

I never said you were a Mike hater, and there you are, getting defensive.  I'm just trying to have a dialog. 



I didn't know that I was getting defensive about the "Mike hater" question.  I thought I was simply asking a question.  Please point out my defensiveness in that question.

I do find it almost entertaining, but not quite, that you keep accusing me of being aggressive in defending Brian, when that's essentially what you do for Mike both here and on BW under the veil of being impartial.  I don't have a problem with that as long as you can get away with it.  But you keep trying to characterize me (and pretty much any other fan of Brian's) as aggressive, condescending, etc.  We're pretty open about our preferences.  I don't think that makes a person unfair.  I thinks it makes us more transparent.  I also don't think insisting on being impartial makes that a reality.

Being accused of being defensive for asking a simple question strikes me as a bit odd.  Was that your answer as to who the Mike haters are?  I'd still like to know who you happen to be referencing.  If it's not me, who are you specifying?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.  

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

But I think, when you're talking about the nature of this board and its members over the last year, the history of those other BB boards *does* add some context. A bunch of the people on both boards came from those boards, and the oldtimers know which of them have been saying the same stuff for all these years, as well as the few who drastically changed their tune for whatever reason, and all the in between.

As I've mentioned many times, I've been going back and forth with Cam for SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN YEARS now, in particular on his often inflammatory anti-Al Jardine tact as well as the "never admit you're wrong" tact when it comes to anything to do with Mike Love. This includes over a DECADE on this board. So when someone says alternate opinions aren't allowed, my tedious near twenty-year slog going back and forth with Cam tells me otherwise in a pretty strong way.

Others I disagree with post here. People ARE allowed to have any opinion they want. If they choose to leave, they choose to leave. If they're banned, it's not because of an opinion, but because some sort of rule was broken.

I've often said that Brian and BB fans can sometimes be too defensive and too forgiving. I think on occasion the defenses of Brian have become excessive and silly. I think on occasion the defense of Brian's concerts or, say, the NPP album, have been a bit over the top. But that's nothing in comparison to the ZILLION times Mike has come out of the woodwork to insult Brian and pretty much everybody else in the band outside of Bruce and Dave.

As a newer fan, you may not be aware that this anti-Brian tact on the part of Mike (and a few of his supporters) has, for whatever reason, been ratcheted up just in the last few years, post-C50. So the occasional overly-defensive attitudes when it comes to Brian do have some context. Some of those folks know what's going on behind the scenes to varying degrees. It's isn't just fans with opinions.

Read Mike's interviews last year about Brian and "Love & Mercy" and Brian's new album. That's a *campaign* against things in my opinion, not just opinions and statements. And I think at least a small segment of "fans", both knowingly and unknowingly, end up being a part of campaigns like that.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 09:48:29 AM
TBH I think that fans respond in kind. So if there is a band which has factions and divisions, that is mirrored in the fan base.


There may be a division between fans when a band is fractured, but as I said I've never seen it with as much venom. 

I'm guessing you never saw the "Cab Board", "Male Ego" board, "Shut Down", "The Smile Shop", etc in their heyday?

The myth that everyone got along and all was peace love and flowers until this board came along is a load of bull. Ask those who were there and maybe those who were banned from those forums too, KDS.

I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

And your statement in bold is exactly what you're missing by making these overreaching comments about the boards. If you don't know the history, if you don't have the perspective or context, you don't know what preceded this board and who was involved (and banned) from some of those boards that you've never seen. Consider how many of the "conflicts" were the same actors doing and saying similar things a decade prior to you becoming a fan. It's a shame those boards collapsed and took their archives with them, it gave absolution and whitewash by default. Maybe you'd be able to see more of the background first before judging this or any other board as you've been doing.

It doesn't develop in a vacuum.


If those archives did exist, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and take a look at them.  

But, unfortunately, that's not the case.  There's only the here and now.  And, here and now, this forum isn't a pleasant place to be.  And unfortunately, the lack of certain posters who were banned hasn't changed that.  

I can only go by seeing posters get accused of being on Mike's payroll for not liking Brian's No Pier Pressure album.  Were all those posters were criticized NPP the same troublemakers you allude to?  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 09:54:51 AM
I was not on those boards, so I can't really speak for them.  I can only speak for the three I've been on.  I'll admit, I'm a fairly recent convert to The Beach Boys universe.  But, I'm also a music geek who has been participating in music related forums and social media pages since I had dial up internet.  

And, as I've pointed out, I've not seen a board for any band, at any time, that has as much conflict as this one.  

Here, it seems like people are not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms to one side.  And trolling is tolerated if it conforms to that side.  

But I think, when you're talking about the nature of this board and its members over the last year, the history of those other BB boards *does* add some context. A bunch of the people on both boards came from those boards, and the oldtimers know which of them have been saying the same stuff for all these years, as well as the few who drastically changed their tune for whatever reason, and all the in between.

As I've mentioned many times, I've been going back and forth with Cam for SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN YEARS now, in particular on his often inflammatory anti-Al Jardine tact as well as the "never admit you're wrong" tact when it comes to anything to do with Mike Love. This includes over a DECADE on this board. So when someone says alternate opinions aren't allowed, my tedious near twenty-year slog going back and forth with Cam tells me otherwise in a pretty strong way.

Others I disagree with post here. People ARE allowed to have any opinion they want. If they choose to leave, they choose to leave. If they're banned, it's not because of an opinion, but because some sort of rule was broken.

I've often said that Brian and BB fans can sometimes be too defensive and too forgiving. I think on occasion the defense of Brian have become excessive and silly. I think on occasion the defense of Brian's concert or, say, the NPP album, have been noticeably over the top. But that's a separate issue from the ZILLION times Mike has come out of the woodwork to insult Brian and pretty much everybody else in the band outside of Bruce and Dave.

As a newer fan, you may not be aware that this anti-Brian tact on the part of Mike (and a few of his supporters) has, for whatever reason, been ratcheted up just in the last few years, post-C50. So the occasional overly-defensive attitudes when it comes to Brian do have some context. Some of those folks know what's going on behind the scenes to varying degrees. It's isn't just fans with opinions.

Read Mike's interviews last year about Brian and "Love & Mercy" and Brian's new album. That's a *campaign* against things in my opinion, not just opinions and statements. And I think at least small segment of "fans", both knowingly and unknowingly, end up being a part of campaigns like that.


I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2016, 09:58:42 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on.  

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me.  

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews.  
 

But while some Brian fans ABSOLUTELY unfairly and unjustly trying to diminish some of Mike's admittedly great contributions to the band, one doesn't see Brian himself ever doing it. This contrasts with Mike himself, who takes it upon himself to passive-aggressively put down Brian (with say, the Autotune comment, just to name a few - which of course, ironically, is something Mike himself is guilty of using in his own music!)

This difference in how the two men conduct themselves in public interviews is a major source of why people feel the way they do about Mike. That this is something difficult for anyone to understand or to admit (not referring to you, KDS) is baffling, and is at the center of why the BB camps are like the Middle East of rock and roll. Anyone who can't admit that Mike is being sh*tty and absolutely, laughably hypocritical with the Autotune comment is just his enabling crap behavior with fanboy drooling defense.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 10:00:27 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 10:03:43 AM
This difference in how the two men conduct themselves in public interviews is a major source of why people feel the way they do about Mike.

Exactly. Some people just want to ignore the stuff Mike says (a few, very few, actually try and fail to defend his most inflammatory comments), and that's fine. But it's unfair to ignore (or dismiss or minimize) what Mike himself says, but then try to paint fans *commenting on his comments* as the ones who are the a-holes in this equation.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 10:04:44 AM
Speaking only for myself. I would NEVER diminish Mike's artistic contributions.  I just have an issue with how's he's been behaving recently


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Shady on September 01, 2016, 10:05:53 AM
He's too thin skinned for this place.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 10:07:40 AM
He's too thin skinned for this place.

Perhaps, but I think that has the potential to paint this place as heavier than it actually is. I think of it more as a case (if we're talking about Mr. Lee) of "can dish it out but can't take it", or something along those lines.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 10:08:27 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 10:11:27 AM
Speaking only for myself. I would NEVER diminish Mike's artistic contributions.  I just have an issue with how's he's been behaving recently

OK, some more common ground, Billy.  That's pretty much how I feel. 





Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 10:15:29 AM
I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

By that point, though, the user had created a different user name to hide behind (breaking another forum rule in the process) and seemed to be doing little but trolling the place.

We all get pushed to various points reading all sorts of stuff here. The lack of restraint in posting something that vile is indicative not of anybody "pushing" that person, but rather is reflective of that person who posted it. There's no defense or explanation for it in that particular case.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 10:17:59 AM
I think there's really no more than one or two people who I would say are literally seemingly *incapable* of not exclusively diminishing Mike's artistic contribution to the history of the band.

The most intractable attitudes I've ever seen on this board have come from a select very small group of people who are *incapable* of ever admitting fault or blame in any way concerning Mike and Mike alone.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 10:18:22 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 10:20:07 AM

I think the problem, though, is that valid criticism in response to a specific issue (e.g. a Mike interview) is lumped in with "blind hatred."

I also think Mr. Lee doesn't come to such a conversation with much credibility, as he came on the board and egged on what he knew was such a divisive issue. He *starts* a thread about why people don't like Mike Love, and then complains about there being too many posters criticizing Mike? He *literally* asked for it!

That it eventually became obvious that he simply used the board to supplement an article he was writing (rather than doing actual research and reading the board's TEN YEARS of posts to learn more than anything he would ever need to know to write such an article) made the whole thing even more troubling.

A conversation about fan negativity is one worth having. But the guy who stoked the flames, then said pretty nasty stuff about the fan community, and then continued to post here, is *not* someone with credibility to speak to such a conversation.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 10:29:42 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 10:31:50 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



OK, so you are just going to pretend there's not a problem on this board?  I've tried to be civil.  Hey Jude, Debbie, CP, and Billy, I thank you for doing the same.  

Meanwhile, guitarfool, instead of participating in a dialog, you're just telling me to go elsewhere?  Am I reading that correctly?



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 10:33:38 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 10:39:46 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 01, 2016, 10:41:33 AM
Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 10:45:26 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: JK on September 01, 2016, 10:52:28 AM
Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

The voice of reason.

And yes, Mike's Beard has irrevocably blotted his copybook.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 10:53:19 AM
Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

Mostly,  as the problem people have left.  Case in point, the 'man' the original post was discussing.  As mentioned previously,  he made this video months ago and then stayed until recently.  Does anybody remember his very first post concerning Mike? Came across like was some kid doing a paper or something as opposed to the f-level wannabe radio punk he really is. He was trolling us the whole time and stirring sh*t the entire time. People like him, and Cam Mott, those are the bad elements.  
Someone wants to defend Mike, go head.  I don't see HOW the past few years are defendable  but whatever. Debate is fine. It's when people act like sh*t stains,  or start doing sh*t behind people's backs to cause sh*t,  well, f*** that noise


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 10:54:51 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 11:00:22 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 11:16:36 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 11:25:56 AM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Kds...they respond like that because they've been driven to it and provoked in to it. And as far as being bullied be a use they didn't like Brian's last album, again, speaking only for myself...there a certain group of people whose sole purpose is to tear down Brian in order to boost Mike. Granted that percentage is small, but those are vocal enough that others who gave valid criticisms got lumped in with people like Autotune and Sheriff John Stone, fairly or not.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 11:39:41 AM
Kds...they respond like that because they've been driven to it and provoked in to it. And as far as being bullied be a use they didn't like Brian's last album, again, speaking only for myself...there a certain group of people whose sole purpose is to tear down Brian in order to boost Mike. Granted that percentage is small, but those are vocal enough that others who gave valid criticisms got lumped in with people like Autotune and Sheriff John Stone, fairly or not.

So to tear people down for criticizing NPP is OK because they might be one of the very few who supposedly have an axe to grind against Brian? 



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 11:45:46 AM
Kds...they respond like that because they've been driven to it and provoked in to it. And as far as being bullied be a use they didn't like Brian's last album, again, speaking only for myself...there a certain group of people whose sole purpose is to tear down Brian in order to boost Mike. Granted that percentage is small, but those are vocal enough that others who gave valid criticisms got lumped in with people like Autotune and Sheriff John Stone, fairly or not.

So to tear people down for criticizing NPP is OK because they might be one of the very few who supposedly have an axe to grind against Brian? 



I literally had just posted 'fairly or not'. Did you not see it? (Asking, not tearing you up)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 11:46:35 AM
Kds...they respond like that because they've been driven to it and provoked in to it. And as far as being bullied be a use they didn't like Brian's last album, again, speaking only for myself...there a certain group of people whose sole purpose is to tear down Brian in order to boost Mike. Granted that percentage is small, but those are vocal enough that others who gave valid criticisms got lumped in with people like Autotune and Sheriff John Stone, fairly or not.

So to tear people down for criticizing NPP is OK because they might be one of the very few who supposedly have an axe to grind against Brian? 



I literally had just posted 'fairly or not'. Did you not see it? (Asking, not tearing you up)

I did.   But it seemed like you were OK with the criticism, be it fair or unfair. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 12:04:32 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 01, 2016, 12:24:22 PM
Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

Hear, hear, +1. And nice to have you back BTW Emily, I enjoyed your back and forth with Rocky. Boy was that a thread from a morbidly fascinating version of Hell.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Quincy on September 01, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Well Motts gone I think KDS is filling up the slack!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on September 01, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling.  

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert.  

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me.  

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love.  
[/quote

I think the problem, though, is that valid criticism in response to a specific issue (e.g. a Mike interview) is lumped in with "blind hatred."

I also think Mr. Lee doesn't come to such a conversation with much credibility, as he came on the board and egged on what he knew was such a divisive issue. He *starts* a thread about why people don't like Mike Love, and then complains about there being too many posters criticizing Mike? He *literally* asked for it!

That it eventually became obvious that he simply used the board to supplement an article he was writing (rather than doing actual research and reading the board's TEN YEARS of posts to learn more than anything he would ever need to know to write such an article) made the whole thing even more troubling.

A conversation about fan negativity is one worth having. But the guy who stoked the flames, then said pretty nasty stuff about the fan community, and then continued to post here, is *not* someone with credibility to speak to such a conversation.

Lee was textbook passive-aggressive in his final comments here, "I will gladly just leave if it will make you folks happy" etc. Those types are frequently the most disingenuous and two-faced, in my experience.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 12:39:31 PM
Kds...they respond like that because they've been driven to it and provoked in to it. And as far as being bullied be a use they didn't like Brian's last album, again, speaking only for myself...there a certain group of people whose sole purpose is to tear down Brian in order to boost Mike. Granted that percentage is small, but those are vocal enough that others who gave valid criticisms got lumped in with people like Autotune and Sheriff John Stone, fairly or not.

So to tear people down for criticizing NPP is OK because they might be one of the very few who supposedly have an axe to grind against Brian? 



I literally had just posted 'fairly or not'. Did you not see it? (Asking, not tearing you up)

I did.   But it seemed like you were OK with the criticism, be it fair or unfair. 

I didn't say that I was. If I did, wouldn't I think it was all fair? Think , McFly.

Point is, the f*** wits and sh*t weasels (to borrow a phrase) have ruined it for every body, and caused people to get jumped on that didn't deserve it.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on September 01, 2016, 12:53:37 PM
Mr. Lee was canned by the BBC. Judging from that, his behavior on this board, and now these comments, he is obviously dealing with some behavior issues. Death threats are no laughing matter. If he were here in the US, I would be filing a police report. Good riddance!

I must say, except for a couple of exceptions, this board is a much nicer, friendly, more respectful place these days.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 01, 2016, 01:01:13 PM
Sure ORR, and I add that it looks as lively as ever, contrary to what somebody predicted (or wished). :)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 01, 2016, 01:03:19 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

From whom?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 01, 2016, 01:03:58 PM
Welcome back ORR! 8)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 01:13:43 PM
I don't think it's so much the dislike of Mike Love that he finds troubling.  

But the outright, hatred towards Mike that has a tendency to derail music based threads.  Or the attacks on posters who might dare to defend Mike, write something positive about a Mike show, or say something negative about a Brian Wilson song, album, or concert.  

I know there's a lot that Mike has done to make people dislike him.  But the blind hatred to the point where some people want to completely dismiss any positive contribution to The Beach Boys makes no sense to me.  

There are far worse people who get far less crap from their fans than Mike Love.  
[/quote

I think the problem, though, is that valid criticism in response to a specific issue (e.g. a Mike interview) is lumped in with "blind hatred."

I also think Mr. Lee doesn't come to such a conversation with much credibility, as he came on the board and egged on what he knew was such a divisive issue. He *starts* a thread about why people don't like Mike Love, and then complains about there being too many posters criticizing Mike? He *literally* asked for it!

That it eventually became obvious that he simply used the board to supplement an article he was writing (rather than doing actual research and reading the board's TEN YEARS of posts to learn more than anything he would ever need to know to write such an article) made the whole thing even more troubling.

A conversation about fan negativity is one worth having. But the guy who stoked the flames, then said pretty nasty stuff about the fan community, and then continued to post here, is *not* someone with credibility to speak to such a conversation.

Lee was textbook passive-aggressive in his final comments here, "I will gladly just leave if it will make you folks happy" etc. Those types are frequently the most disingenuous and two-faced, in my experience.


Thanks for bringing this back on-topic.  Iain is typical of a certain type who seems to enjoy success for a brief time - all gunslinger, fiery aggression (stupid death threats) when people who don't know what he's talking about are cheering him on.  Then, when someone calls him on his sh*t-stirring ulterior motives here, he gets "all hurt and pouty."  Right.  Enough of the manipulation. I can't imagine why this guy would be missed here or anywhere else.  

I'm sure he'll enjoy his new fellow posters, though.  He isn't the first of them who've moved to "the other board"  who remind me of him - some, of course, due to a valid ban here, others because they're getting more attention there - whatever.  Those who are actually interested in the facts will keep coming here - and all those folks who are selling their books, cds, etc. will post on all the boards as usual.  If this guy writes a book, would we even want to know about it?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 01:22:29 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

From whom?

Can't speak for him so I really can't say.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 01:24:10 PM
Mr. Lee was canned by the BBC. Judging from that, his behavior on this board, and now these comments, he is obviously dealing with some behavior issues. Death threats are no laughing matter. If he were here in the US, I would be filing a police report. Good riddance!

I must say, except for a couple of exceptions, this board is a much nicer, friendly, more respectful place these days.

Yea! Good to see you ORR.  And as Thorgil said, it's as lively here as ever.  We certainly don't need disingenuous blow-hards who are trying to manipulate everyone - fake tough guys one minute, crying that no one "likes me" next.  Please grow up.  The other board is probably more appropriate to this guy's emotional age.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 01:29:07 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?

Well, I'm glad that you, GF, and Billy have approached my posts today with the level of maturity I've sadly come to expect from the SSMB.  

My posts here have nothing to do with the death threats you keep bringing up.  I don't condone them.  

But, like I said earlier, I've participated on message boards (music, sports, tv, movies, etc) for almost 20 years now, and I've never experienced the toxicity that exists here.  




Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 01:33:50 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?

Well, I'm glad that you, GF, and Billy have approached my posts today with the level of maturity I've sadly come to expect from the SSMB.  

My posts here have nothing to do with the death threats you keep bringing up.  I don't condone them.  

But, like I said earlier, I've participated on message boards (music, sports, tv, movies, etc) for almost 20 years now, and I've never experienced the toxicity that exists here.  




Although it may be "immature" of me to bring this up, the Iain Lee death threat is the topic of this thread.  Would it be okay with you if we continue that discussion?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 01:33:57 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on.  

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me.  

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews.  



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

From whom?

Can't speak for him so I really can't say.

Are we talking about the same guy who was also making anti-Trans comments? I got complaints form several people about him.

And what do you mean about my level of maturity?  I've been calm this whole time but now I am a little peeved. Please explain.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: KDS on September 01, 2016, 01:55:54 PM
Basically, Billy, I hoped to bring to light some of the perceived problems with this board.

Debbie, GF, and to a lesser extent yourself decided you'd rather go on the offensive rather than have a productive dialog. 

So, I know all I need to know.  The Smiley Smile Message Board is a haven for Brianistas.  Anyone with an opinion which doesn't follow the Brianista agenda probably shouldn't post there. 

That's pretty much what I expected.  Thought I don't really understand how people who worship a man who has spent over half a century creating beautiful, life changing music can be so bitter, crass, and hate filled. 

As I've said many times on here.  I'm a fan of The Beach Boys.  I'm a fan of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar, and yes, Mike Love. 

I gladly pay to see Brian Wilson and his great band and Mike Love and his great band, and enjoy every note. 

I listen to everything from Surfin to No Pier Pressure, and everything in between, some more than others. 

But, for my own well being, I'm taking an extended leave from this board before a certain small portion make me start resenting the very music that I love enough to make me sign up for such a message board. 



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 02:01:19 PM
What constitutes "toxic" is of course open to interpretation, but I can't imagine staying in a place that I found to be, over the course of 20 years of internet browsing, the most toxic place I'd ever seen.

Let me be clear, this is not a hint or implication or wish for anyone to leave this board. I just have to wonder why we have now more than one example of someone characterizing this place as *the worst place on the internet" who for some reason seem to keep coming back here.

Now, I think such a characterization is beyond ridiculous, and it suggests to me either huge amounts of hyperbole or having lived the most sheltered of sheltered internet existences. I could find stuff a hundred times worst than the worst thing ever posted here in a few short minutes by perusing the YouTube "Comments" section on countless videos there.

Back to the idea of coming back here despite finding it the WORST place ever on the internet, I think *THAT* is perhaps why we end up in these super "Meta" discussions about the board itself. People who want to be here are here. Most people who don't want to be here aren't here. I think that makes for a pretty calm situation. So maybe it's the people who seem to have utter contempt for the board but who keep coming back, often to remind us all how awful it is here, who are causing these circular debates.

I agree with Emily and others. It has been pretty good overall here. Not perfect; it never has. Considering the feeling I think many (including myself) had a year or two ago when Mike's book was announced that every corner of the BB internet universe would implode once the book hit, I think things are pretty okay.

I've seen the same two usual pro-Mike suspects (one now gone) criticize the criticism of the book, one s**t-disturber who pre-judged anyone who would be critical of the book the same way he apparently feels those people would criticize the book itself (that person is now also gone), and that's mostly it.

Beyond that, we're getting into a bunch of circular semantics where we're talking about the criticism itself, or the state of the board itself.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 02:11:54 PM
Basically, Billy, I hoped to bring to light some of the perceived problems with this board.

Debbie, GF, and to a lesser extent yourself decided you'd rather go on the offensive rather than have a productive dialog.  

So, I know all I need to know.  The Smiley Smile Message Board is a haven for Brianistas.  Anyone with an opinion which doesn't follow the Brianista agenda probably shouldn't post there.  

That's pretty much what I expected.  Thought I don't really understand how people who worship a man who has spent over half a century creating beautiful, life changing music can be so bitter, crass, and hate filled.  

As I've said many times on here.  I'm a fan of The Beach Boys.  I'm a fan of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar, and yes, Mike Love.  

I gladly pay to see Brian Wilson and his great band and Mike Love and his great band, and enjoy every note.  

I listen to everything from Surfin to No Pier Pressure, and everything in between, some more than others.  

But, for my own well being, I'm taking an extended leave from this board before a certain small portion make me start resenting the very music that I love enough to make me sign up for such a message board.  



How am I going on the offensive?   I wasn't being snarky or offensive when I asked earlier. ..I really don't know why you feel that way towards me. I meant what I said when I said I respect Mike's musical contributions.  Keep in mind you're talking to someone  who LIKES Looking Back with Love and hates Imagination.  I don't think much of him as a person, I think he bullied Brian for far too long, I think he's two faced and a phiny. But I will give him his fair due artistically  when he deserves it.

Brian Wilson is not just my musical hero...hrs my personal hero and meeting him is on my bucket list.

If everything I said above makes me a Brianista,  then f*** it...I'm a Brianista and proud of it

If you want to leave then do so, but it's your own decision.  I'm not asking you to, telling you to, or forcing you to. Just do it or don't,  hug if you do, please don't go on that other board and say how I forced you out.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2016, 02:12:16 PM

As I've said many times on here.  I'm a fan of The Beach Boys.  I'm a fan of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar, and yes, Mike Love. 


I'm a fan of all those guys too, including Mike. I like Mike tracks *including* many that he did not do with Brian. Doesn't mean that I won't call out his BS when I believe it's justified to do so. I think the vast majority of people here would agree with this sentiment.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 02:14:29 PM
So, I know all I need to know.  The Smiley Smile Message Board is a haven for Brianistas.  Anyone with an opinion which doesn't follow the Brianista agenda probably shouldn't post there. 

It's unfortunate that this generalization, incorrect in my opinion, has to made.

I've been posting on this board since almost Day One almost eleven years ago, and I've posted plenty of things critical of Brian. I've posted things supportive of Mike.

I've taken a pragmatic, realistic approach to Brian's shows and agreed with the observation that on occasion in past years his shows occasionally veered into "Weekend at Bernie's" territory.

I've explained how I felt Mike, out of all three of Brian, Mike, and Al, somehow managed to put the best solo track on the "Hallmark" CD.

Despite defending Al against tons of unfair attacks, I've called BS when appropriate as well, about how he doesn't manage to finish projects and never got traction trying to tour.

I gave a very middling review of Brian's "No Pier Pressure", have gone on record that the Gershwin album doesn't do much for me and "Lucky Old Sun" doesn't do a great deal more for me. I've mentioned how multiple cover albums from Brian isn't ideal.

I've explained many times how I agree with another observation made a few years back that Mike probably owes the survival of his touring reputation entirely to the talents of Scott Totten at this stage.

I don't think people are being attacked or discouraged from stating opinions.

Where do most of the disagreements occur? When Mike opens his friggin' mouth in interviews. That's the sticking point. The problem isn't Brian fans defending him too much (which does happen sometimes). The problem is the hands-off approach and/or benefit of the doubt afforded by some to Mike.

Simply put, some fans aren't willing to afford him that benefit anymore. He has burned through it. So yes, to defend Mike or ignore things he says is going to highlight a fundamental and core difference of the sort of ethos we take towards loving this band.

Fans haven't changed a great deal in the last few years. Mike's attitude and venom has, and that's simply going by public statements and events and not even getting into the behind-the-scenes stuff.

I think both the band and fandom has hit a bit of a fork in the road, and Mike has chosen the path to be, again to borrow a phrase used by someone in the past, remembered as a hun.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on September 01, 2016, 02:16:13 PM
I think he bullied Brian for far too long, I think he's two faced and a phiny.

I believe dolphin fanatics like Mike Love spell it "finny" but, personally, I always respected the fact that he was a finny.

 :)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 01, 2016, 02:18:39 PM

Keep in mind you're talking to someone  who LIKES Looking Back with Love and hates Imagination.  I don't think much of him as a person, I think he bullied Brian for far too long, I think he's two faced and a phiny. But I will give him his fair due artistically  when he deserves it.


Totally, Billy.

And all the people who are so defensive of Mike, saying that he never bullied Brian... what if Mike one day (unlikely of course) states that he's sincerely sorry and regretful for ever having done actions that came off as bullying (directed at Brian). Would those ultra-defensive people then finally say that it's good that Mike is making peace with past actions? Or would they double down and say "damnit Mike, you should never apologize for something you never did!", insisting that Mike was coerced to make a false statement, because it's 110% impossible to conceive of Mike Love bullying someone?

I just don't get the logic of people putting their heads in the sand about emotional bullying and this band. I asked Cam a question about if he himself has ever been emotionally bullied for years by a family member of his, and OF COURSE got zero response, and only snark, but I honestly want to know: have people (who absolve Mike completely from remotely having ever inflicted emotional bullying on Brian) ever THEMSELVES been on the receiving end of emotional bullying tactics by someone close (family or not) for many years? Where lots of little things add up over time?  

I just can't see someone who has endured deep pain from an emotional bully (I have) looking at the Mike/Brian relationship over the years (even from our outsider perspective)... and honestly thinking to themselves that this looks like something where nothing of the sort happened with Brian on the receiving end of bullying from Mike.

I think only someone who themselves is a bully, or has no empathy at all (basically the same thing) could not understand the concept, and not at all see how it could - at times - apply to Mike/Brian. It doesn't mean Mike is the big, bad, wolf, or that he has no good person qualities (he most certainly does). Certainly it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Melinda must feel that Mike has bullied Brian at times. So someone like Cam, denying bullying has ever taken place, is in effect saying that Brian's wife has it ALL wrong and is full of sh*t, just because trustworthy Mike says so.

Remind me of how it's a characteristic of bullying people to admit to being bullying people? It does happen sometimes, with lots of deep personal growth and reflection... but just as often (if not more often), bullies deny it until their dying day.

People who defend bullies are often bullies themselves, and defending the indefensible (with childish, question-dodging tactics) is the main reason for the fracture in this band's online communities.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 02:26:12 PM
I think he bullied Brian for far too long, I think he's two faced and a phiny.

I believe dolphin fanatics like Mike Love spell it "finny" but, personally, I always respected the fact that he was a finny.

 :)

Lol...I hate this phone.

Yeah I meant 'phony'


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
The problem isn't even so much the few people with intractable positions. Those are frustrating, and don't help. But here's part of the problem and where some of the disagreements occur:

Let's take a random issue such as, let's say, Mike calling Brian controlled and medicated.

A couple of people will stubbornly try to defend such comments as 100% fine and dandy. That's not the big problem, though.

It's the waffle-ish, fence-walking, sometimes well-intentioned hands-off attitude another still somewhat small segment of fans sometimes take. I'm not saying people aren't allowed to have any opinion, nor am I saying someone can't have a centrist position on something. But the *refusal* to just condemn a given statement and not qualify it with a bunch of other stuff is where we often get hung up.

My position is that nobody has to step up every time (or any time) and condemn something Mike does or says when it seems appropriate. But if you're not, don't lump all the people that do together as being too negative, or mean, or whatever other adjectives are floating around. If you think Mike's awesome and want to ignore other stuff, cool. But don't get on my jock for pointing out that Mike was a d**k in an interview. As I've said, you can sometimes call the criticism redundant. But the criticism of the criticism then becomes redundant too, and it all started with stuff Mike did or said.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 02:32:56 PM
Basically, Billy, I hoped to bring to light some of the perceived problems with this board.

Debbie, GF, and to a lesser extent yourself decided you'd rather go on the offensive rather than have a productive dialog.  

So, I know all I need to know.  The Smiley Smile Message Board is a haven for Brianistas.  Anyone with an opinion which doesn't follow the Brianista agenda probably shouldn't post there.  

That's pretty much what I expected.  Thought I don't really understand how people who worship a man who has spent over half a century creating beautiful, life changing music can be so bitter, crass, and hate filled.  

As I've said many times on here.  I'm a fan of The Beach Boys.  I'm a fan of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar, and yes, Mike Love.  

I gladly pay to see Brian Wilson and his great band and Mike Love and his great band, and enjoy every note.  

I listen to everything from Surfin to No Pier Pressure, and everything in between, some more than others.  

But, for my own well being, I'm taking an extended leave from this board before a certain small portion make me start resenting the very music that I love enough to make me sign up for such a message board.  



I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "on the offensive."  Wow - " bitter, crass, and hate filled." When did that happen?

I guess I'll never know since the guy is doing the usual little shuffle done by those thinly-veiled Kokodopes who post here, calling me a "Brianista"while claiming their love of the whole band.  When they don't get their way (whatever that would be - maybe winning an unwinnable debate?), they make dramatic exits and announce their move to the new Kokodope board.  It almost looks like a plan.  Whether it is or isn't, who cares?  They'll never answer a direct question, respond to a direct challenge when something isn't accurate in their statements, nor will they engage in any specifics about their perceived insults, etc.  I'm not certain how I'm supposed to improve my "immature" behavior when I don't know what horrible thing I've apparently done.

Oh, well.  I guess I'll just keep on "immaturely" asking questions and see what happens.  And there's a guy outside my door resembling Iain Lee waving a Virgin Atlantic airline ticket apparently purchased with my miles and in his other hand is his recently purchased American gun.  Gotta' go.  Now, are we back on topic after that last little drama?



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Don Malcolm on September 01, 2016, 03:05:42 PM
Debbie, I guess this is not the best time for me to say how much I admire how you...shoot from the hip!  :hat



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 03:09:56 PM
Quote
I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "aggressive."  

And now he's saying we're being too 'defensive', yet told me I was going on  the 'offensive'. One moment I'm being level-headed, next minute I'm 'immature'.

I'm done trying to make sense of it. I tried.

Now for the original topic, this guy Iain...

he's now playing the victim on the BS forum, talking about how he's heartbroken and everything. You know, the same guy who said he'd kill everybody here...the same guy who started a thread about Mike trying to *start* arguments and lied about why he was doing it? What we have here is a 43 year old man acting like a petulant child. This is someone who I initially thought had some integrity about him (going off on that bigoted bitch from a militant Christian group, for instance) but has proven to be exactly the same cocky phony-baloney radio type as all the rest. He's the REAL 'Mr. sh*t Stirrer'.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
Debbie, I guess this is not the best time for me to say how much I admire how you...shoot from the hip!  :hat



Yep, I'm the gunslinger here - a 64-year-old woman who has never fired a gun. But I did look after BW during the late 70's/early 80's.  I think I earned my military fatigues, even if I can't fit into them anymore.  ;-)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 01, 2016, 03:13:05 PM
Glad to see this community being better than ever despite the drama from Mr. Lee!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 03:22:29 PM
Quote
I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "aggressive."  

And now he's saying we're being too 'defensive', yet told me I was going on  the 'offensive'. One moment I'm being level-headed, next minute I'm 'immature'.

I'm done trying to make sense of it. I tried.

Now for the original topic, this guy Iain...

he's now playing the victim on the BS forum, talking about how he's heartbroken and everything. You know, the same guy who said he'd kill everybody here...the same guy who started a thread about Mike trying to *start* arguments and lied about why he was doing it? What we have here is a 43 year old man acting like a petulant child. This is someone who I initially thought had some integrity about him (going off on that bigoted bitch from a militant Christian group, for instance) but has proven to be exactly the same cocky phony-baloney radio type as all the rest. He's the REAL 'Mr. sh*t Stirrer'.

I was just waiting for the verification of what obviously was coming.  Thanks for having the stomach to look on that site.  I'll never go there. 

Poor, poor baby Iain.  Bait people, then say you want to kill them, and when you're caught, you play the poor little victim.  There has to be a frikkin' playbook being handed out to these people.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 03:26:48 PM
Quote
I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "aggressive." 

And now he's saying we're being too 'defensive', yet told me I was going on  the 'offensive'. One moment I'm being level-headed, next minute I'm 'immature'.

I'm done trying to make sense of it. I tried.

Now for the original topic, this guy Iain...

he's now playing the victim on the BS forum, talking about how he's heartbroken and everything. You know, the same guy who said he'd kill everybody here...the same guy who started a thread about Mike trying to *start* arguments and lied about why he was doing it? What we have here is a 43 year old man acting like a petulant child. This is someone who I initially thought had some integrity about him (going off on that bigoted bitch from a militant Christian group, for instance) but has proven to be exactly the same cocky phony-baloney radio type as all the rest. He's the REAL 'Mr. sh*t Stirrer'.

I was just waiting for the verification of what obviously was coming.  Thanks for having the stomach to look on that site.  I'll never go there. 

Poor, poor baby Iain.  Bait people, then say you want to kill them, and when you're caught, you play the poor little victim.  There has to be a frikkin' playbook being handed out to these people.

Yeah. Oh well, just best to let them wallow in their own feces ::)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 03:28:01 PM
Debbie, I guess this is not the best time for me to say how much I admire how you...shoot from the hip!  :hat



Yep, I'm the gunslinger here - a 64-year-old woman who has never fired a gun. But I did look after BW during the late 70's/early 80's.  I think I earned my military fatigues, even if I can't fit into them anymore.  ;-)

Hell yeah you earned it and then some.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: halblaineisgood on September 01, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
...who is this dude and why is everybody talkin' about him?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 04:11:37 PM
...who is this dude and why is everybody talkin' about him?


Oops, I see nearly your whole post has disappeared, so my post will look ridiculous, but here it is:

I'm obviously not one of the esteemed people you're looking for, since you've already acknowledged my presence in a form I didn't quite follow.  You're pleased, but then again you're not that I'm still around?  Fine with me, if I read it correctly.

Nevertheless, I'm wondering why this guy is trolling a BB MB and writing fluff pieces for Mike Love if he's so esteemed these days.

I think that's a legitimate thing to consider.  But I'm probably not esteemed enough.  You'll all have to let me know.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: The_Beach on September 01, 2016, 05:01:56 PM
ahah that interview is too funny! What is his user name here?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 05:09:33 PM
It was Iain Lee, but he asked us to delete his account


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: halblaineisgood on September 01, 2016, 05:29:55 PM
.

You're raggin' on my post billy??   
If I am ruining the forum or whatever and have to be accountable I will remove the dot and post something inflammatory again. Just say the word.





Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 05:42:00 PM
Yeah, I'll never understand the need for some to tear others down to bring one up. Or the need to take potshots at others and then saying it's 'pathetic' when the potshots are returned.

Hypothetically ::)

But enough about the BS forum...

we got Ricky Gervais's reject to discuss!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 01, 2016, 05:53:02 PM
Honestly, I think the problems on this board have been resolved, except for the occasional attempt to continue arguing about what the problems of the board used to be.
I also don't think that Mike's Beard is somehow free of responsibility for his own language, nor that disagreeing with someone is equivalent to not allowing them to state their opinion.

Hear, hear, +1. And nice to have you back BTW Emily, I enjoyed your back and forth with Rocky. Boy was that a thread from a morbidly fascinating version of Hell.
Thanks! I've had a pretty hectic summer.
I agree that Iain Lee was very passive-aggressive from the start.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 01, 2016, 05:55:04 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?
That's a pretty disgusting collection of insults you've borne here. Sorry for that.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 05:59:43 PM
It was Iain Lee, but he asked us to delete his account
 So.. he's gone.That explains it.
 I was looking just now for it, I couldn't find hide nor hair of it.

When did he register anyways?

He really should have jumped on the Mike Love-Lovetrain back in 2012. Those were the days... for sweet ,sweet love of mike love.

And pretty much the entire history of this place was the day or were the days or were the was oah uhhh.....ANYTIME except NOw would have been better to pander to fans on a pro-love platform.
 I gotta' assume all the forums that predate this one would've been a better place to come out of the love-closet.

He's not ready for reality. The initial Brian-worship that leads to Mike- apologetics-- has he gone thru this??
which  leads to acceptance.
acceptance of the whole group's  talents .
and then the humble realization of the initial appreciation of Brian-and validating that, and recognizing that your first instinct was the correct one???

(Recognizing brian as best -not as a superhuman deity-- but as god-given fluke of a talent who developed the skills, and was clearly the best on hisown merits, and not on the basis of the initial blind hero worship. ** therefore mike can still be good too and al (or "la: as I call him) and all those other bastards  :3d )



The MYTH THE LEGEND!!!!!~

yeah, dude....we all know Mike is good. asshole.





I must say, as someone who was around when Brian was horribly misdiagnosed, getting the wrong meds, etc., and I still tried to help him get along anyway as a friend - I find it hilarious that there are people here who think I'm some wide-eyed person idolizing him (I'm not saying that about you, HBIG.  I doubt they'd have survived that period of my life, much less, that period of Brian's life. He is one tough cookie.

I know who Brian is - the wonders and the amazing challenges, and the regular guy who likes hamburgers, steak and pizzas, and who can be a real pain in the ass, although it's always pretty funny when he is.  

The BBs were his baby, then his albatross, and he decided he wanted them back 50 years later.  He got the value of their voices - always - and he loved his family.  So did most of the rest of us.

Melinda came along at the right time.  When he was ready for a new life.  Very cool.  

The fact that Mike Love still seems to want to be a jerk about all this appears to be a fact, Jack.  We'll see how this book goes.  The previews aren't promising.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 01, 2016, 06:08:20 PM
My view, for what it's worth, is that there must be very few Beach Boys fans who are not 'Brianistas'. How could one be a serious BB fan with any knowledge without recognizing that his extraordinary talent is what makes Beach Boys music extraordinary?
Regarding this board, it seems to me that most (non-Sandbox) strife was centered around Mike Love, Mike Love interviews and Mike Love lawsuits. And I agree with Hey Jude/CD that a big problem was that there were a few fans that dug in against acknowledging that some of what Mike Love has said and done has been pretty egregious, and other fans thought that not acknowledging that was, itself, pretty egregious.
I also think there have been a few posters who intentionally obfuscate.
It seems that with the two boards, peace can reign, and it has for most of the summer. I've noticed a few people manage to converse at both boards without difficulty. Those are people who were mainly not involved in the ML disputes. But it seems there are a few who like to come back here just to keep arguing that old argument, and to blame this board for the old arguments or to blame one side (the ones who primarily reside at this board) for the old arguments. Certainly it takes at least two sides to have an argument, and some of the primary arguers are primarily at the other board.
For my part, I agree that much of what Mike Love has said and done has been pretty egregious. But I have no desire to argue about it.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Debbie KL on September 01, 2016, 06:09:12 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?
That's a pretty disgusting collection of insults you've borne here. Sorry for that.

No big deal.  Just a typical day online.  It's so funny that the most irate posters here seem to throw a tantrum and go off to "the other board" when they don't win a debate.  There are political figures everywhere enduring far worse than I - and certainly far worse than these wimps - endured.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 01, 2016, 06:14:14 PM

I've read pretty much every Beach Boys related interview since 2012 that I can get my minds on. 

Sure, I don't like a lot of what Mike has to say.  And he does tend to repeat himself.   To say it's an anti-Brian campaign seems a little silly to me. 

And we're hitting some common ground now, HJ.  When you said some of the people who rush to the defense of Brian can be "over the top."  That's true.  And the same Brian fans can be a little over the top on their criticisms of Mike, or anyone in his camp, to the point of trying to diminish his contributions, which is the same time of revisionist history that Mike sometimes spews in interviews. 



I have to say that at the point Mike tried to empathize with the point of view of Evan Landy last year, it very much reeked of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" tact. Also, his David Beard interview/monologue ("hopefully there's no autotune") read very much as part of a campaign. I guess we can parse the definition of a "campaign", but basically what I mean is a continued effort to downplay/negate something rather than it just being random "stream of consciousness" ramblings.

Maybe Mike doesn't see it as "anti-Brian", but more "anti-the people around Brian", but it's the same thing, and the "people around Brian" stuff also is insulting to Brian.

As for having some context about past posts/archives relating to those who left this board for the other, here's one post from someone who used to post here and now posts on that other board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23872.msg577773.html#msg577773

Does that read like someone escaping a bad board, or someone being a part of what is bad about a board?

I remember that well.  But I also believe the poster was pushed to the point where he thought it was necessary to hurl those insults.  A little tact would've been nice, though.  

Nice spin, KDS. Says all we need to know. Maybe...just maybe...not lying and not creating fake aliases and using IP maskers to hide behind an alias and evade a ban would have been the "tactful" way to act. After that, all else is bunk no matter how necessary hurling insults you think would be after the initial lie. But, that's past history. You know where to go to "like" as many sh*t-stirring posts as you can like in one sitting.



Unbelievable, huh? Where does this apologist draw the line?

Debbie, is this you being "helpful" again?  By insulting me?  I'm a Mike apologist now? 

No, I'm calling you a Mike's Beard/China Pig apologist, appropriate to your post.  How did I provoke that little creep into talking about Brian "dumping my saggy ass" to the point that you defended him? 

Please tell me how you didn't "insult" me in that?

Debbie.  Firstly, I don't agree with what he said, and I do think it was disrespectful.  I apologize if you took what I said about him being pushed to say that as an insult to you, as I didn't mean it that way.  

But, as I said before, your efforts to "help" fans understand Brian Wilson are often not very tactful, and can come across as insulting.  Like when one poster, observed that he'd seen Brian in concert three times, and each time, Brian was "worst than the last time."  You came back saying that was utter BS and that person didn't "get it."  Can you see how that can be off putting?  

How else was I supposed to take your defense of that poster?  He "hurled insults" because he was "pushed", even though he was posting after being banned under an essentially "illegal" screen name?  So I wasn't delicate enough with certain posters, and that's your equivalent?  You are clearly making the point about why you're here, and it certainly isn't about being "fair and balanced".

If you look at my post, I said that I thought that post from the ChinaPig was disrespectful.

I've already apologized, and I'm making an attempt to illustrate why some people have a problem with this forum.  And so far, you and Guitarfool are doing a wonderful job proving my point.   

Yes, you used the word "disrespectful," but you also said that he was "pushed" to "hurl insults."  You very clearly said that, too - right? I still am trying to understand that comment.  People who hurl insults, quite frankly, I'm happy to have on that "other forum."  I don't think most of us here care to have people posting who have bullied, harassed and made "joking" death threats against people.  Nor those who have lied, and/or made racist, misogynist comments.  If you want that kind of board, I have a pretty good idea where you can find it. 

So the point GF and I are making on your behalf is?  That we don't agree with you and say so?  Help me out here.

The point you and GF are making for me is that you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem on this board.  And the attitudes of both of you are a big part of that problem.  You have both been disrespectful at various times towards me, and others on the board, whose opinions don't always jibe with your opinions. 

I've seen people who say that the constant complaining about Mike is tiresome called a fool, and a mod agree with it.  I've been posters (and this term is overused, but apt here) bullied for saying that they didn't care for Brian's last album.  I've seen posters' intelligence insulted because they enjoyed a Mike and Bruce concert. 

And when I tried to bring up some of these issues, I get insulted myself, or my point gets turned around. 

That's fine. 

Please explain the "problem" on this board - "debate" possibly - that isn't on other boards?

I can't quite make sense of your 2nd paragraph.  At some point you reference being "bullied."  That much I could make out.  How were you "bullied" that any one of us hasn't encountered here or elsewhere?  Good heavens.  I've been called a cheerleader, told I had "my claws out," been accused of having a "cat fight" with a woman who was advocating illegal downloads, harassed every time I posted for 10 days, told to move my "saggy ass" on, and on other boards, accused of being a fraud until a long-time friend posted in support of me, just as a few examples.

That's what we endure online, like it or not.

I'm not clear who insulted you or how - or what this has to do with some fool making stupid death threat against posters here. 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, other than to complain about this board, the mods and the posters here. 

If that's the case, we've heard your complaints.  Is that it?
That's a pretty disgusting collection of insults you've borne here. Sorry for that.

No big deal.  Just a typical day online.  It's so funny that the most irate posters here seem to throw a tantrum and go off to "the other board" when they don't win a debate.  There are political figures everywhere enduring far worse than I - and certainly far worse than these wimps - endured.
For sure.
I, for one, am extremely pleased to have someone with your experience, knowledge, and sense contributing to the board. Thank you.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 06:39:08 PM
Quote
I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "aggressive."  

And now he's saying we're being too 'defensive', yet told me I was going on  the 'offensive'. One moment I'm being level-headed, next minute I'm 'immature'.

I'm done trying to make sense of it. I tried.

Now for the original topic, this guy Iain...

he's now playing the victim on the BS forum, talking about how he's heartbroken and everything. You know, the same guy who said he'd kill everybody here...the same guy who started a thread about Mike trying to *start* arguments and lied about why he was doing it? What we have here is a 43 year old man acting like a petulant child. This is someone who I initially thought had some integrity about him (going off on that bigoted bitch from a militant Christian group, for instance) but has proven to be exactly the same cocky phony-baloney radio type as all the rest. He's the REAL 'Mr. sh*t Stirrer'.

If anyone starts feeling bad for Mr. Lee, let me mention that on his Facebook page he not only has posted a link to this thread seemingly trying to paint the board as the bad guys even though the thread title and his very own Facebook post contain his own "joking" threat, he has also allowed a comment from someone else on his post where the commenter suggests luring Beach Boys fans into a theater for a fake Beach Boys gig and then filling the theater with deadly gas. Hilarious, right?

But apparently everyone on this board is an American with no sense of humor. *That's* the problem apparently.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1139417299485362&id=160579384035830

The guy even missed the obvious opening for a joke about how "Brianistas" wouldn't show up for a BB gig anyway.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Is anyone in Mr. Lee's circle capable of comedy that's more creative than death threat scenarios stolen from a "Scooby Doo" episode?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 06:57:51 PM
He's the new Dane Cook for the millennial generation.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 06:59:22 PM
Is anyone in Mr. Lee's circle capable of comedy that's more creative than death threat scenarios stolen from a "Scooby Doo" episode?


That's hilarious considering he's on the level of Scrappy Doo .


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
Like watching a Bewitched episode with Dick Sargent.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 01, 2016, 07:01:36 PM
Or the Three Stooges with Curly Joe.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 01, 2016, 07:04:00 PM
That's hilarious. The screencap that got used.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 07:05:30 PM
Or Blue's Clues without  Steve


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 07:07:14 PM
That's hilarious. The screencap that got used.

I almost did five Brians. Or Iain Lee in Mike's place :lol


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2016, 07:07:53 PM
That's hilarious. The screencap that got used.

I still can't tell if the guy is just trying to be ironic. It's essentially "Look at these assholes who started a thread about me to criticize me. But please ignore that the thread and entire  conversation revolves around me saying two months ago I wanted to murder everyone on the board."


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: rab2591 on September 01, 2016, 07:13:14 PM
Quote
I would really have enjoyed a clear, simple answer as to how kds has been insulted, etc. - particularly by me, from my perspective. But every question I asked regarding something more specific that I could understand about this was, apparently another insult? I can only assume that was the case, since I never received a direct answer.  I wonder how asking a question for clarification is being "aggressive."  

And now he's saying we're being too 'defensive', yet told me I was going on  the 'offensive'. One moment I'm being level-headed, next minute I'm 'immature'.

I'm done trying to make sense of it. I tried.

Now for the original topic, this guy Iain...

he's now playing the victim on the BS forum, talking about how he's heartbroken and everything. You know, the same guy who said he'd kill everybody here...the same guy who started a thread about Mike trying to *start* arguments and lied about why he was doing it? What we have here is a 43 year old man acting like a petulant child. This is someone who I initially thought had some integrity about him (going off on that bigoted bitch from a militant Christian group, for instance) but has proven to be exactly the same cocky phony-baloney radio type as all the rest. He's the REAL 'Mr. sh*t Stirrer'.

Wait, Iain is 43? Given his little tirades I thought at best he was mid/early 20s. But if this board has taught me anything in the last couple years it's that no matter what your age is or how gray your beard you can still do and say the most childish sh*t.

He should definitely feel at home on the BS board (great title for that btw). And Billy, you summed up pretty perfectly why people get so defensive about the anti-Brian sentiment around here. And I have said repeatedly there are things I don't like about NPP, but I also realize that Brian is a human being just like us who poured his heart and soul into that record...so I try to be a bit tactful about my criticisms.

The horrendous PM rumors I read about Melinda, the hysterical defense Sheriff John Stone laid out of his years of utter nonsense (I mock Brian's music and those close to him because I love him!), the outlandish and utterly psychotic lengths people will go to defend Mike Love - all of this now has a little pleasant cesspool on that other board...and it's nice to see that people of that calibre are quitting this board and continuing to join that board...So hopefully this forum and the Brian Wilson forum can get back to constructive talk about the music.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 07:20:06 PM
Yeah, it's like this board needed a colon cleanse.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Jay on September 01, 2016, 07:38:00 PM
I think we may still have a turd around here.  ::)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 01, 2016, 07:39:21 PM
Nah he flushed himself although his account is still active...guess that makes him a floater!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Jay on September 01, 2016, 07:45:51 PM
Let's hope he doesn't stink up the place to much.  ;D


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 01, 2016, 08:06:50 PM
Nah he flushed himself although his account is still active...guess that makes him a floater!

 :lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Please delete my account on September 02, 2016, 01:35:53 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but I see the phrase "death threats" is being loosely tossed about.

Being a fan of the Richard Herring podcast, I heard this episode when it first appeared , and thought nothing of it. It's a humorous discussion. RH asks often outrageous or ridiculous questions and sometimes unexpectedly interesting answers are elicited. In this case the question was, who would you kill if you could be certain of getting away with it? Now, a boring answer would be "no one" or some terrorist leader. Instead, (having just come from being tarred and feathered on this message board), he vented a little with this hyperbolic answer. I found it funny. It was obvious hyperbole. I didn't take it personally, because I knew he wasn't talking about me. It was almost flattering we were worthy of mention. And of course the audience found it hilarious he (or anyone) was ever on a Beach Boys message board in the first place.

And now suddenly this is worthy of it's own post? In the ON-TOPIC section? And just when things looked they had calmed down a bit and peace reigned again?

Please delete my account. I'm as against that ridiculous Mike Love character as the next guy but that doesn't mean I can't agree to disagree with people who defend him.

Yes, I am a member of the Pet Sounds board, yes, there are a few bad apples there too. But at least you can block/ignore them there, which function would have come in very handy on this board.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on September 02, 2016, 02:22:37 AM
First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation and just flat-out mean-spirited jealousy that was directed towards him was almost comical - and it was actively encouraged by those who should have known better.

But while you're all busy bitching on this depressing site, Iain will no doubt continue to have articles published in respectable music magazines and oversee successful record reissue campaigns - not bad for a '3rd rate british [sic] version of Bubba the Love Sponge'. Oh, and a 'wanker' and a 'fucking tool'. Where are the moderators in all of this uncensored abuse??

I don't even really know why I've even logged back on here again. I guess I wanted to see if things had improved - but no, clearly not.

Right, I'm off to Brighton to see Brian at the Brighton Festival with my lovely wife... Bye - enjoy bitching in my (permanent) absence :)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Ang Jones on September 02, 2016, 02:28:16 AM
The insults and throwing a wobbly certainly aren't unique to the Smiley Smile board. I was involved in a FB thread yesterday in which several really nasty remarks about Mike were made but my suggesting that Mike had a history of litigation was the one that elicited a very rude response from one guy (now unfriended and blocked!).

Mike often comes in for criticism because of the kind of comments he has made and no doubt with the book shortly to be on the shelves we'll see more of it. Brian is far less contentious and so I would be surprised if his book causes the same - or anything like the same - amount of bad feeling.



Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Bittersweet-Insanity on September 02, 2016, 02:34:37 AM
damn, this place is falling apart. Hold yer hats, Sailors! :police: think we're in for a rough tide


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Tab Lloyd on September 02, 2016, 02:45:06 AM
Disney Boy, too cool for school. I guess murder humour is your cup of tea. 'Comic effect'...you mean like the joke about Manson blowing the black guy away and stuffing him down a well. That was quite a howler, whaddnit? No one spins a yarn like Mr. Love. Of course he was only 'exaggerating'...after all it might sell a few more copies before it goes to the bargain bin.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Smilin Ed H on September 02, 2016, 03:49:42 AM
damn, this place is falling apart. Hold yer hats, Sailors! :police: think we're in for a rough tide

No it's not. Where's the evidence? Where did anyone say that? Where? Where? Just your opinion, I know.

Tell you what, kids, if you feel the threat is genuine, report him. If not, man (or woman) up and ignore it, but - and I'm saying this as a Brianista of several years standing, who has very little time for the opinions of a couple of posters on PS (one of whom still posts on here under the same name) - I'm out of here.  Close my account.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: JK on September 02, 2016, 04:01:41 AM
Tell you what, kids, if you feel the threat is genuine, report him. If not, man (or woman) up and ignore it, but - and I'm saying this as a Brianista of several years standing, who has very little time for the opinions of a couple of posters on PS (one of whom still posts on here under the same name) - I'm out of here.  Close my account.

Damn! That means I'm on full-time obituary duty...

Goodness----you will be greatly missed, sir. Luckily there's still the Friday Night Boys blog. And, of course, your posts at PS...


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2016, 05:05:57 AM
First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation and just flat-out mean-spirited jealousy that was directed towards him was almost comical - and it was actively encouraged by those who should have known better.

So Iain comes here provoking a board on a very sensitive issue, and we're the ones to blame for the petty sniping? Two hours of research using the very obvious "search" button at the top of the page could've elicited the very answers that Iain was supposedly looking for. Instead, he chose to, as AGD put it, stir the pot (on a board already full of arguments about this very issue).

As for the original "research" thread... yes, it was a conscious stirring of the pot by the author. Otherwise he would have titled it something decidedly less provocative than "Why Do You Hate Mike Love" - say, "What Do Posters Here Think Of Mike Love".

So we all give our opinions in a 37 page thread, and Iain seems to completely ignore the obvious rational arguments. Instead, we hate Mike Love because he supposedly hated Pet Sounds. We hate Mike Love because of his feud with Dennis. We hate Mike Love because of Kokomo. We also hate Mike Love because of his nasaly voice. And that's it. NOTHING mentioned about the lawsuits unless I skimmed over that (especially the one a decade ago over a picture on a freebie CD), the comments about Al Jardine in that lawsuit, nothing mentioned about Mike continuously insinuating Brian is controlled, Mike's seemingly snide outlook on Brian taking prescription meds, Mike's comments that Brian is handled, overweight, out of shape, can't sing like he used to, a solo single of Brian's would be great if there's no autotune, etc etc. I'm sure Iain culled his research from a multitude of sources, but it seems like he ignored the blatantly obvious arguments about why a lot of people have a negative outlook towards the man. Is it any wonder people weren't too happy with Iain after that, especially after "stirring the pot" on a board already awash in turmoil over that very issue?

As for the killing comment - of course it's not genuine, it's just in very poor taste. I'll say that had OSD made that same comment jokingly there'd be an uproar and he would most likely have been permabanned here and elsewhere.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Robbie Mac on September 02, 2016, 05:07:52 AM
And joking about killing people is not funny.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2016, 05:18:39 AM
And joking about killing people is not funny.

This brings up a thought I had about all the violence here in America lately. I went to a Brian concert a couple weeks ago and on that very night in the very same small city two people were brutally stabbed (supposedly an attempted decapitation) by someone claiming to be a member of ISIS. The night Brian sings "a lot of people out there getting shot, and it really scares me" there's a brutal attack on an innocent couple in the same city Brian is singing in. It's crazy just how pervasive senseless violence is becoming in America, and making jokes about killing (especially after Orlando) is probably not the best route to take...and you're right, it's not funny at all.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 02, 2016, 05:21:45 AM
Well said rab2591!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Pacific Ocean Blue on September 02, 2016, 05:38:10 AM
I'm sure there's more to worry about than someone saying that on the internet  :lol


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 06:21:59 AM
Uggh, c'mon. The point IS NOT so much that these ridiculous, uncreative, unfunny "death threats" were real.

The point is that if someone HATES a message board that much (listen to how he talks about the board, ignore even the actual death threat remarks; he sounds like he hates the place and has already sworn it off), why would they come back and continue to post for over two months after that?

Like a few folks, his apparent purpose for continuing to be here was:

1. Complain about how much the board sucks.

2. Stirring up s**t. (He seemed to believe over two months ago that being "pro-Mike Love" was the root of the problem, so he responded by continuing to go out of his way to post "pro-Mike" comments and also insult others by assuming anybody critical of Mike was pre-judging and a "hater.")

3. Play the victim ("Why don't people like me? What did I do?")

So back to the question: Why would someone with so much vitriolic, emphatic disgust for a board come back and continue to post for over two months after expressing such feelings? The only answer I can think of is that he was trolling the whole time.

So, the issue isn't that Mr. Lee likes Mike Love. The issue isn't that people came into this not liking Mr. Lee. The issue is that Mr. Lee trolled the board *repeatedly.*

Let's be clear: Saying things in support of Mike is *NOT* in and of itself "trolling." It becomes "trolling" when you insult and condemn a board, making sweeping generalizations and assumptions about a board, and then continue to post on that board.

Look at this guy's old posts. It reads like he *went out of his way* to egg people on so that he could play the victim. Again, look at his posts after his "article" on Mike was published but *before* anybody read it. He comes on *assuming* he's going to be attacked. He doesn't try to understand why some people might have felt he trolled people on this board and used the board because he was too lazy to do more original first-hand research on the legitimately worthwhile topic of why there is so much disdain for Mike. Look at that YouTube video again. He actually thinks (or at least claims to think) that people are giving him s**t simply because he likes Mike Love. He totally missed the point from the beginning! (Or, just as likely, was trolling the whole time).

And finally, I'm additionally troubled by Mr. Lee's actions and comments, both before and after "leaving" this board, because I think his continued disparagement of this board has an air of "cyber bullying" accusations (to be clear, I don't think anybody has used that term, but my opinion is that that is being alluded to), and that's where his Facebook post and resulting response comments come into play. Because, regardless of how "serious" any of the "joking" death threats are, his post and its resulting comments on his Facebook page contains *numerous* references to violence, and a bunch of people (I'm assuming Iain Lee groupies) who probably know nothing about the Beach Boys or this board offering disparaging comments (and, again, some "joking" death threats) about this place.

On top of everything else, the guy isn't funny. Can't someone at least make fun of this place and be funny about it? This place (and other boards and BB fandom in general) *IS* totally ripe for being made fun of. I'd be less annoyed by this guy if he had even been kind of a dick but did or said something where I could at least say "Okay, well that *was* pretty funny, though. I'll give him that."


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 06:29:44 AM
First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

As I said previously, the point isn't that the death threats are legit. They're not funny either; you're epically failing as a comedian usually when you have to scream at everybody "Get a sense of humor! C'mon!"

The point is that he clearly hated this place, yet continued to post here, with posts doing the very thing he already claimed was raising the ire of the board, and then playing a victim when criticized. The point is that the only person who says a place is the worst place on the internet of all time, yet continues to participate in that forum, is trolling.

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation

Mr. Lee is the one who now *clearly* was doing the provoking. The timeline concerning his initial posts, followed by writing his article, followed by his comments and assumptions about how people would react to the article, followed by the timing of that YouTube video and its comments, followed by his additional two and half months on this board suggest he was the one all along doing the provoking.

I don't even really know why I've even logged back on here again. I guess I wanted to see if things had improved - but no, clearly not.

You do know that you don't have to log back on to view the board, right? I think what actually happens is that people who come on for the *sole* purpose of telling us how awful the board is are doing so because they *like* posting that sort of stuff. Otherwise, what's the point?

I for one choose *not* to spend my time logging onto forums that I *don't* like for the sole purpose of telling them that they suck.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 02, 2016, 06:58:51 AM
I agree, HeyJude. I don't consider Iain Lee's comment to be a literal death threat. I think it underscores that his claims of just trying to be a friendly poster were disingenuous.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 07:25:14 AM
First of all, Iain was clearly - clearly - exaggerating for comic effect. Anyone who genuinely thinks he meant he really would kill everyone on Smiley Smile needs to urgently acquire a sense of humour... (It's just a guess, but I'll bet he's had a look at this thread and had a right good chuckle!)

Secondly, is it any wonder Iain gave up on this place? The level of petty sniping, deliberate provocation and just flat-out mean-spirited jealousy that was directed towards him was almost comical - and it was actively encouraged by those who should have known better.

But while you're all busy bitching on this depressing site, Iain will no doubt continue to have articles published in respectable music magazines and oversee successful record reissue campaigns - not bad for a '3rd rate british [sic] version of Bubba the Love Sponge'. Oh, and a 'wanker' and a 'fucking tool'. Where are the moderators in all of this uncensored abuse??

I don't even really know why I've even logged back on here again. I guess I wanted to see if things had improved - but no, clearly not.

Right, I'm off to Brighton to see Brian at the Brighton Festival with my lovely wife... Bye - enjoy bitching in my (permanent) absence :)
Can I have your gear?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2016, 07:33:54 AM
On top of everything else, the guy isn't funny. Can't someone at least make fun of this place and be funny about it? This place (and other boards and BB fandom in general) *IS* totally ripe for being made fun of. I'd be less annoyed by this guy if he had even been kind of a dick but did or said something where I could at least say "Okay, well that *was* pretty funny, though. I'll give him that."

This brings to mind Bill Burr's epic Philly rant. The crowd was ignoring him the moment he got on stage and he thus launched into a diatribe wishing death, violence, terminal illness on the audience (YIKES!), but he also pointed out hilarious observations about the city, it's culture, and it's inhabitants. By the end of his allotted time he got booming applause...because most of what he said was actually funny. Also, Bill Burr didn't quit going to Philly after that.

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 02, 2016, 07:37:48 AM
The humor in the situation is how when Iain first appeared with his "Why Do People Hate Mike Love" thread, many of the same people now embracing him and joining him on the "nice" place were the ones calling him a troll, calling for him to be removed and the thread locked or deleted, and openly challenging his motives and even attacking him personally. And the reason why centered around the assumption that his post was going to be an exercise in "Mike Bashing", and that he was here to start a round of Mike bashing, i.e. "trolling".

Then when it further developed, his article which he was purportedly "researching" via his posting experiment here seemed to ignore or leave out many of the actual insightful comments and opinions, and instead focused on the lowest-level "bashing" Iain could excise from the board, in order to I suppose prove his point and make all of it look like gutter-level sniping. Which, as others have said, I found to be a pretty glaring flaw of his article considering we could read both the raw data as posted here and the finished result which had been selectively edited and excised to paint the worst picture of this board and people among the fanbase who may have issues with Mike's actions or words.

Selective editing is a dangerous tool when in the wrong journalistic hands, but one bonus of a message board is how anyone can now go back to that thread and see some of the comments Iain either ignored or conveniently left out in order to sell the premise of his article. And they can see all the "nice people" calling for his head when they thought he was here to bash Mike. It's not the same demographic Iain is currently railing against on his social media network, and the nice place.

So, that's where all of that came from. It's funny to see how things get flipped and the facts distorted or changed entirely over time and with changing agendas.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 07:47:41 AM
One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

To be honest, a main reason why I doubt the assumption that people thought much about his article one way or the other is that I think many didn't and still haven't read it.

How many here, especially outside the UK, wanted to pay a pretty hefty price tag for an imported issue of a magazine for one article? I don't think a lot people wanted to shell out $10 at Barnes and Noble for one issue of this magazine, and it appears you *still*  can't even read the article online without a subscription to the magazine.

The impression I got is that he started the "why do you hate Mike Love?" thread, wrote the article, and was all giddy and "tee hee hee!" about it because he knew he had done a bit of a "bait and switch", and then hoped and assumed (wrongly as it turned out) that he would *blow everyone's mind* and piss everybody off with his article. I think not only did he *want* that reaction, but he kinda didn't even really get a big reaction out of it and had to kinda make up some of the "reaction" part of it too.

So not only is the "reaction" as he later characterized it one that he desired in my opinion, but I think he also had to kind of exaggerate the level of interest and simple readership, because few US fans (and probably other fans around the world) were going to pay the price of a CD to buy an issue of Record Collector for his one article.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 07:59:57 AM
I used to be a fan of Mike's. Still a fan of his contributions to my favourite group ever, and especially of his stellar bass/baritone voice.
Like Billy, I probably like Looking Back With Love more than Imagination. If "Mike Love Not War" (would have been the best title ever!) had been released, I'd have bought it!
But... I lost any patience I had about his interviews/lawsuits/books/whatever shenanigans, and most of all about many of his "fans". People who defend the indefensible. Who sometimes try to rewrite known history, and will ignore evidence if it doesn't meet their agenda. Who won't miss any chance to provoke and insult anybody who is perceived as a "Brianista".
By the way, I'd like to understand how could "Brianista" ever been meant as an insult by so-called BEACH BOYS FANS. I mean, who else composed 90% of all that wonderful music? Mysteries...
And, no, death threats may be not serious (hopefully!), but aren't particularly funny. Ever.  
This board, thanks to Charles, Billy, Craig and all the good people here, ROCKS. More than ever. :thewilsons


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: rab2591 on September 02, 2016, 08:10:52 AM
One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

To be honest, a main reason why I doubt the assumption that people thought much about his article one way or the other is that I think many didn't and still haven't read it.

How many here, especially outside the UK, wanted to pay a pretty hefty price tag for an imported issue of a magazine for one article? I don't think a lot people wanted to shell out $10 at Barnes and Noble for one issue of this magazine, and it appears you *still*  can't even read the article online without a subscription to the magazine.

The impression I got is that he started the "why do you hate Mike Love?" thread, wrote the article, and was all giddy and "tee hee hee!" about it because he knew he had done a bit of a "bait and switch", and then hoped and assumed (wrongly as it turned out) that he would *blow everyone's mind* and piss everybody off with his article. I think not only did he *want* that reaction, but he kinda didn't even really get a big reaction out of it and had to kinda make up some of the "reaction" part of it too.

So not only is the "reaction" as he later characterized it one that he desired, but I think he also had to kind of exaggerate the level of interest and simple readership, because few US fans (and probably other fans around the world) were going to pay the price of a CD to buy an issue of Record Collector for his one article.

This is a very good point. I noticed the thread where Iain announced that the article had been released was only four pages long (as opposed to the 37 pages his initial "why do you hate Mike Love" thread got). His article wasn't controversial in the conventional sense, and it raised a lot of good points about Mike Love (those parts were actually an enjoyable read). The perplexing part of his article was what was missing. Sure, some fans despise Kokomo and a few can't stand his voice - but do those irritations take precedence over the bleedin obvious controversies Mike has sparked with his comments about Brian in recent years? Does his feud with Dennis hold a candle to how fans feel about Mike's lawsuits? I think not. I wish everyone here had had the opportunity to read the article - because the void of any mention of the lawsuits or Mike's recent comments about Brian are completely mind-blowing.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 02, 2016, 08:19:56 AM
Of course, if one looks at this through a Trump lens, Iain Lee's become the most talked-about person among Beach Boys fans, and has probably gained some fairly devoted fans himself.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 02, 2016, 08:23:21 AM

One more thing I want to point out (just got around to watching the video podcast in question) - Iain says that people here hate him because he wrote an article saying he likes Mike Love. Who here had this opinion (besides maybe one person)? I don't think anyone here hates Iain, or anyone else for that matter, because he likes Mike Love. When Mike apologists cherry pick, duck, dodge, ignore rational arguments regarding the man, that's when some here develop an irritation for those people.

That's literally nearly the entire reason for the friction between the online communities of the BBs.  Some things are just not excusable, but some fans have the inclination to proactively go out of their way to defend certain things that are indefensible. WHY??? Is the whole reason that happens simply because they think he's getting too much unfair hatred about other stuff (absolutely true), so it's best to just defend every single thing - without nuance to admit that some things are just sh*tty, period - in an attempt to just paint him in an overall better light? I just don't get it.

Like why every single BB fan, including FDP, including Mott, can't just say Mike's a giant hypocrite (for example) for Mike's putting down of Brian for Brian's use of Autotune, when Mike unquestionably uses pitch correction (or actual Autotune) - and poorly -  on his own stuff. How on earth is stating that Mike's being a big hypocrite about that topic any kind of arguable statement?  

And Mike's one to talk about Brian getting fat. Mike has probably given more business to tailors to give more slack to his shirts in the last few years than he has paid in alimony. Which, I should add, I could care less about. It's just the hypocrisy that bugs the sh*t out of me, and that's the only reason I mentioned it, and bust his balls about that topic. With Mike's hypocrisy so blatant (these are just a couple of minor examples), why is it a mystery to anyone such as Iain why people have a problem with many of Mike's actions?

Mike has made some rad musical contributions, but that doesn't give him carte blanche to act like a hypocritical tool (with the additional unattractive quality of being self-righteous about it) whenever he chooses, even if his feelings are hurt about other legit things.

The sooner ALL fans can agree on that, the less enabled Mike will be to put his foot in his mouth (and get away with it by having people defending such actions online). Mike's biggest fans should *want* Mike to make less of an ass out of himself in interviews. Stop the defense and stop the enabling.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 08:28:52 AM
Of course, if one looks at this through a Trump lens, Iain Lee's become the most talked-about person among Beach Boys fans, and has probably gained some fairly devoted fans himself.
Sure! If you want fans but know no other way, just be an "arsehole" (the real thing, not the supposed Smiley Smile version). Your fellows will flock to you!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 08:44:37 AM
The humor in the situation is how when Iain first appeared with his "Why Do People Hate Mike Love" thread, many of the same people now embracing him and joining him on the "nice" place were the ones calling him a troll, calling for him to be removed and the thread locked or deleted, and openly challenging his motives and even attacking him personally. And the reason why centered around the assumption that his post was going to be an exercise in "Mike Bashing", and that he was here to start a round of Mike bashing, i.e. "trolling".

Then when it further developed, his article which he was purportedly "researching" via his posting experiment here seemed to ignore or leave out many of the actual insightful comments and opinions, and instead focused on the lowest-level "bashing" Iain could excise from the board, in order to I suppose prove his point and make all of it look like gutter-level sniping. Which, as others have said, I found to be a pretty glaring flaw of his article considering we could read both the raw data as posted here and the finished result which had been selectively edited and excised to paint the worst picture of this board and people among the fanbase who may have issues with Mike's actions or words.

Selective editing is a dangerous tool when in the wrong journalistic hands, but one bonus of a message board is how anyone can now go back to that thread and see some of the comments Iain either ignored or conveniently left out in order to sell the premise of his article. And they can see all the "nice people" calling for his head when they thought he was here to bash Mike. It's not the same demographic Iain is currently railing against on his social media network, and the nice place.

So, that's where all of that came from. It's funny to see how things get flipped and the facts distorted or changed entirely over time and with changing agendas.
Just to be clear, I stated in PSF that I in fact was one of those people here that was calling him out when he opened that thread on Mike. Still, what he did here is yours and Billy's concern, not mine. You do as you see fit.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 09:04:59 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there", in the a "Refugee from the Dark Side*" thread). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly - pun intended - peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.

* It's surreal. Now we are "the Dark Side". But then, having suffered from asthma all my life, probably a Darth Vader costume would fit me... :jedi


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 09:13:26 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 02, 2016, 09:14:50 AM
Good riddance to that bunch. ::)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 09:16:48 AM
Good riddance to that bunch. ::)
Right back atcha, fellow.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 02, 2016, 09:19:33 AM
Now go kneel at the feet of your mega mod....


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 09:20:57 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...
Craig is not my "leader" in any way (I don't have one). He's one of the most savvy Beach Boys scholars I know, and one of our two excellent moderators. :love


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 09:24:35 AM
Can we just close this thread now? As much as it turns my brain to mush trying reason out why a procession of people who *hate* this board so much seem to not be able to resist continuing to be here, I imagine we've exhausted the exploration of Mr. Lee until or unless some other information pops up.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 09:28:25 AM
Agreed.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 09:36:48 AM
Now go kneel at the feet of your mega mod....
Kind of ironic coming from you, wouldn't you say, considering...


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 02, 2016, 09:43:19 AM
I want to write a message directly to Iain regarding his claims, and what he has been telling his social media audience (and others) about certain things that happened here. It's not to stir sh*t, it's not to cause tensions, but he is making some claims that can and will be addressed by "the other side" of the issues so everyone can make their own judgements.

I will do that within the next day due to my work schedule. If a separate thread as a direct (and public) message to Iain and his audience who seem to be clicking on the links to this board is warranted, please let me know and it will be done.

Otherwise, I don't see this thread being locked if people have something to say and haven't had a chance yet. And I'm simply unable now to write what I feel has to be written.

Suffice it to say, what Iain is telling his audiences is not entirely accurate, and as someone who tried both directly and indirectly to reach out to him multiple times publicly and through third party members here who said they were in contact with him, I want the record to be set straight so everyone knows all sides before passing judgement on anyone or anything. Because as it stands now, you're getting only a portion of what actually happened, and it's not fair to all involved.

Iain was given multiple chances publicly and privately to tell his side of things, and invited to engage in discussions about his article and other things too. He chose not to, and instead in June said what he said before his current round of posts. Now I/we get a chance at a rebuttal and clarification. That's how discussion works.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 02, 2016, 09:45:01 AM
Dr Beach Boy - You're still welcome to take part in the discussions here. But if your purpose is to come here to agitate and confront people, it's not welcome. Tend to your own business, or take a hike entirely.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Emily on September 02, 2016, 09:52:01 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...
drbeachboy, it seems there's commentary on each board about the other. Obviously, things would be more pleasant if that stopped on both sides. I don't support it here. But crossing over to the other board just to criticize seems like an extra unnecessary step. It's clear that there's acrimony both ways. It's like former roommates who ended up quarrelling. While they will each complain to their friends about each other, it's not helpful to keep going to the former roommate's apartment to tell him how much he sucks.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Debbie KL on September 02, 2016, 09:56:27 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...
Craig is not my "leader" in any way (I don't have one). He's one of the most savvy Beach Boys scholars I know, and one of our two excellent moderators. :love

While I never go to that board, I've certainly appreciated Craig's and others' references to various of us being trashed - some possibly even libeled/defamed - there.  We also deserve to know that some  fool has "joked" publicly about wanting to kill us while still posting here and trying to pretend to be anything but a troll - playing the "poor me, no one like's me. I'll stomp off now", card.  I like being informed without my having to go to those "peaceful"  ::) boards, FB pages (or whatever) myself.  I'm aware of some of the posters there and have no desire to ever interact with those folks again, so this is my "peaceful" place, along with BW.  

My only curiosity remaining about the guy is how he could have once worked for BBC, apparently lost that job, and is now at the level of trolling BB-related message boards to write attack pieces.  How sad, if that is indeed true.  If he wants to whine publicly for attention these days, fine. I'm happy to avoid those places and be spared that.  

 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 02, 2016, 09:56:33 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there", in the a "Refugee from the Dark Side*" thread). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly - pun intended - peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.

* It's surreal. Now we are "the Dark Side". But then, having suffered from asthma all my life, probably a Darth Vader costume would fit me... :jedi

 :woot :woot :woot


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 02, 2016, 09:59:39 AM
Good riddance to that bunch. ::)

Instead of wasting valuable space, just imagine 37 woots!!


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: The_Beach on September 02, 2016, 10:00:23 AM
 :bw :pirate :violin :ninja :jedi :spin :smash :whatever


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 10:02:33 AM
I should mention that my suggestion to close the thread was really mainly due to another person popping up who doesn't want to be here yet can't stop themselves from posting here for some reason.

Emily's post on this is perfectly put. The posts contained within each board referencing the other are often silly and unneeded (e.g. "I joined here to get away from that other board"), but it takes an extra step and extra purposeful action to go onto the board you ostensibly have so much disdain for, to mainly continue to snipe.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 10:03:50 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...
Craig is not my "leader" in any way (I don't have one). He's one of the most savvy Beach Boys scholars I know, and one of our two excellent moderators. :love

While I never go to that board, I've certainly appreciated Craig's and others' references to various of us being trashed - some possibly even libeled/defamed - there.  We also deserve to know that some  fool has "joked" publicly about wanting to kill us while still posting here and trying to pretend to be anything but a troll - playing the "poor me, no one like's me. I'll stomp off now", card.  I like being informed without my having to go to those "peaceful"  ::) boards, FB pages (or whatever) myself.  I'm aware of some of the posters there and have no desire to ever interact with those folks again, so this is my "peaceful" place, along with BW.  

My only curiosity remaining about the guy is how he could have once worked for BBC, apparently lost that job, and is now at the level of trolling BB-related message boards to write attack pieces.  How sad, if that is indeed true.  If he wants to whine publicly for attention these days, fine. I'm happy to avoid those places and be spared that.  

 
amen


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: Debbie KL on September 02, 2016, 10:06:17 AM
Doctor, please let us "wallow in our own feces" (I'm quoting one of your posts "there"). Neither Billy nor Craig ever go to disturb your havenly (pun intended) peace there. Pay us the same respect.
I can't speak for the board obviously, but speaking just for myself: please let us alone.
You betcha! Tell your fearless leader Craig to stop referencing us in here and I will be quite happy to leave you wallowing...
drbeachboy, it seems there's commentary on each board about the other. Obviously, things would be more pleasant if that stopped on both sides. I don't support it here. But crossing over to the other board just to criticize seems like an extra unnecessary step. It's clear that there's acrimony both ways. It's like former roommates who ended up quarrelling. While they will each complain to their friends about each other, it's not helpful to keep going to the former roommate's apartment to tell him how much he sucks.

Emily - It would be nice if it all ended.  I'm well aware that several people on the "peaceful" board don't like me.  Happily, I don't care, have no intention of going there and whining about it and I don't have to look at it if they make a comment.  I don't foresee this ending in the near future, sadly.  Some people seem to still want to settle scores and keep popping up here.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: joshferrell on September 02, 2016, 10:16:20 AM
I guess maybe because I've been on the internet for now over 20 years, I've seen far, far weirder groups of fans. Even just among music fans.

This place is often more analytical than other places, but that's what separates it from the "everything is awesome!!!!" communities online. With all due respect, I'm glad this board isn't the "Endless Summer Quarterly" of message boards. Those things have their place too.

I *do* think there are very few cases where a main member of a band has such a large number of detractors among that band's actual hardcore fans. And while I think as fans some self-reflection is always important; we do need to look at how we're acting and our attitudes, I think that interesting factoid about BB fans has far more to do with *Mike Love* than it does the fans. The fans aren't the ones saying and doing all of the things Mike says and does.

I was talking awhile back with someone and we were trying to determine if a George Lucas-Mike Love analogy was apt enough. That is, a main creative figure in a franchise where huge droves of fans heap such scorn. I think the analogy is good enough to make a very general comparison, but I don't think even George Lucas is quite as deserving of the criticism quite as much as Mike is.  
I don't know,,,Lucas DID create Jar Jar Binks...I would rather put Kokomo on repeat for 2 hours then have to watch Jar Jar Binks for 2 hours...  :lol


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: joshferrell on September 02, 2016, 10:18:09 AM
(http://i64.tinypic.com/103s678.jpg)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 10:33:02 AM
For those needing to keep track, it appears the Facebook commenter's "lure Beach Boys fans to a theater and poison them with gas" comment has been removed (presumably either by Mr. Lee or the commenter; I believe those are the only two that can do that).

A comment critical of Mr. Lee has also been removed.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 02, 2016, 10:38:22 AM
Good riddance jerk.... ::)


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: Emily on September 02, 2016, 10:42:25 AM
I guess maybe because I've been on the internet for now over 20 years, I've seen far, far weirder groups of fans. Even just among music fans.

This place is often more analytical than other places, but that's what separates it from the "everything is awesome!!!!" communities online. With all due respect, I'm glad this board isn't the "Endless Summer Quarterly" of message boards. Those things have their place too.

I *do* think there are very few cases where a main member of a band has such a large number of detractors among that band's actual hardcore fans. And while I think as fans some self-reflection is always important; we do need to look at how we're acting and our attitudes, I think that interesting factoid about BB fans has far more to do with *Mike Love* than it does the fans. The fans aren't the ones saying and doing all of the things Mike says and does.

I was talking awhile back with someone and we were trying to determine if a George Lucas-Mike Love analogy was apt enough. That is, a main creative figure in a franchise where huge droves of fans heap such scorn. I think the analogy is good enough to make a very general comparison, but I don't think even George Lucas is quite as deserving of the criticism quite as much as Mike is.  
I don't know,,,Lucas DID create Jar Jar Binks...I would rather put Kokomo on repeat for 2 hours then have to watch Jar Jar Binks for 2 hours...  :lol
I FULLY agree. Lucas has done great damage to the actual product. Ugh. What happened to the Star Wars that I used to know?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 02, 2016, 10:55:41 AM
Basically, Billy, I hoped to bring to light some of the perceived problems with this board.

Debbie, GF, and to a lesser extent yourself decided you'd rather go on the offensive rather than have a productive dialog. 

So, I know all I need to know.  The Smiley Smile Message Board is a haven for Brianistas.  Anyone with an opinion which doesn't follow the Brianista agenda probably shouldn't post there. 

That's pretty much what I expected.  Thought I don't really understand how people who worship a man who has spent over half a century creating beautiful, life changing music can be so bitter, crass, and hate filled. 

As I've said many times on here.  I'm a fan of The Beach Boys.  I'm a fan of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar, and yes, Mike Love. 

I gladly pay to see Brian Wilson and his great band and Mike Love and his great band, and enjoy every note. 

I listen to everything from Surfin to No Pier Pressure, and everything in between, some more than others. 

But, for my own well being, I'm taking an extended leave from this board before a certain small portion make me start resenting the very music that I love enough to make me sign up for such a message board. 



Oh, No!! How will we manage to thrive here?? Only an extended leave? When you come back (and you will...soon to be exact) make sure you find a way to grow a bit of hard bark so you don't get easily insulted and run away with your young tail between your legs. Have fun over at the snoozefest while it lasts.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 11:13:54 AM
I love how the 'peace and love' board has many (but not all) of its members be people who leave here in a huff because of all of the 'negativity' yet are continuing to throw pot shots, yet can't handle it when it's thrown back their way. Nice guys, huh? Oh, and even better...a member here signed up over there and did an introduction...and then was attacked by those same people! I guess the kindness and peacefulness only applies if you're part of the clique . Craig and I have not registered accounts there to bash people either.

Keep all of the above in mind if you do register an account there and you're not a part of the clique.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 11:35:10 AM
Dr Beach Boy - You're still welcome to take part in the discussions here. But if your purpose is to come here to agitate and confront people, it's not welcome. Tend to your own business, or take a hike entirely.
I was agitated here first. I was only responding to your post. As you say, I am still welcome to take part in discussions here. There was no need for the others to come after me before you had a chance to respond.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum: \
Post by: thorgil on September 02, 2016, 12:02:12 PM
Doctor, you can't write that we "wallow in our feces" (and there is no need to "spy", it's there for everyone to read, took me all of a whoppin' minute to reach it) and act all surprised and offended if one of the "wallowers" takes a quite civil exception.  
Someone said that you can decide to be either friend or tyrant, but not both at the same time. Meditate on that, it's not only valid for politics.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 12:09:39 PM
Quote
Someone said that you can decide to be either friend or tyrant, but not both at the same time.

Well said.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 12:22:03 PM
Doctor, you can't write that we "wallow in our feces" (and there is no need to "spy", it's there for everyone to read, took me all of a whoppin' minute to reach it) and act all surprised and offended if one of the "wallowers" takes a quite civil exception.  
Someone said that you can decide to be either friend or tyrant, but not both at the same time. Meditate on that, it's not only valid for politics.

I have no problem with the swipes, I expected it. What I have a problem with is Craig telling me "But if your purpose is to come here to agitate and confront people...". I wasn't agitating or confronting. I came in to confirm Craig's point that I originally took offense to Iain's Mike Love thread when he first started it. You and Smile Brian took swipes at me and I responded and defended myself.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 12:30:36 PM
Quote
You and Smile Brian took swipes at me and I responded and defended myself.

Then expect us to respond and defend ourselves when we are called 'loonytunes' and things like that.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 12:37:26 PM
Quote
You and Smile Brian took swipes at me and I responded and defended myself.

Then expect us to respond and defend ourselves when we are called 'loonytunes' and things like that.
And you and Craig better expect a response from me, as well. All's fair, baby! Peeps are leaving here again lately, What the hell is going on, Billy? I don't keep up like I used to. Your spying caper brought me in this time. I would invite you to join since you been there so much, but I know you wouldn't accept, so why bother, right?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 12:42:10 PM
My spying caper? Is that like your own spying caper? Or is it different because it's you? I was informed about the swipes from the usual suspects against us and yeah, I took the piss out of it a bit with my signature. Who is the one coming in here constantly posting?


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: drbeachboy on September 02, 2016, 12:46:15 PM
My spying caper? Is that like your own spying caper? Or is it different because it's you? I was informed about the swipes from the usual suspects against us and yeah, I took the piss out of it a bit with my signature. Who is the one coming in here constantly posting?
Here is the difference my friend; I am a member here and have every right to come and go as I please. You come into PSF and snoop and ferret around. I come here logged in every time I visit. 


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 12:48:47 PM
Quote
Here is the difference my friend; I am a member here and have every right to come and go as I please.

Not anymore, hypocrite.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: HeyJude on September 02, 2016, 12:51:20 PM
Here is the difference my friend; I am a member here and have every right to come and go as I please. You come into PSF and snoop and ferret around. I come here logged in every time I visit. 

Why can't people visit a board without creating an account and logging in? Most message boards have tons of guests, who are not signed in for all sorts of different reasons.

I would imagine most people don't create accounts on boards if they don't plan on posting.

It's plainly obvious that anybody and everybody on both boards can *see* both boards, and some are reading both boards for any number of reasons. If you don't want unregistered users seeing a board, then it has to be completely password-protected to even view, which I'm sure some boards are.


Title: Re: Iain Lee's Opinion Of This Forum:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 02, 2016, 12:52:55 PM
I ended it...some people cannot man or woman up and admit to their own faults. I'm also going to lock this .  I suggest those here avoid taking swipes at them; hopefully those who are members of both sides that are still here avoid doing the same there.