Beach Boys beat Beatles in 1966 music polls

[Mikie]

Question o' the day:

By the way, I'm suppose to be looking for parking places at Candlestick Park right now for Paul's concert (in memory of the last Beatlle concert ever played here).

OK, what guitars were used to play the riff on the recording of Day Tripper and who played them?

I know those who will answer will also know the correct opening chord played on Hard Day's Night.

[kookadams]

Anyone who thinks the beatles could sing better than the BBs is just stupid, I dont care how blatant that is, the beatles were to george martin as the muppets were to jim henson, you cant change history and anyone that doesnt like that I say ignorance is bliss . The beach boys were a real rock band who could produce and arrange their own music and had a natural ability for christ sake, it was rare then and rare now .

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Anyone who thinks the beatles could sing better than the BBs is just stupid, I dont care how blatant that is,

It's not blatant, it just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how art functions.

the beatles were to george martin as the muppets were to jim henson,

That certainly explains the overwhelming success of Matt Monro...  

Now here's me being blatant: While the statement that George Martin was responsible for The Beatles is an oft-heard claim, it is misguided and essentially serves to demonstrate that the person making the claims knows very little about The Beatles or, for that matter, George Martin.

The beach boys were a real rock band who could produce and arrange their own music and had a natural ability for christ sake, it was rare then and rare now .

And, yet, The Beatles were better.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

1 - "SFF" is a better production than "GV" ?  With the world's most obvious edit ? Seriously ?

This kind of sounds like Phil Spector's critique of GV. Personally, I don't think the edit in Fields is that obvious, let alone "the world's most obvious" - sure the tempo changes but that could have been done live, even though it wasn't. At any rate, while I prefer GV as a song and as a production over SFF, they are both remarkable productions and I don't find it at all strange that someone is making the case for Fields over Vibes.

[pixletwin]

Anyone who thinks the beatles could sing better than the BBs is just stupid, I dont care how blatant that is, the beatles were to george martin as the muppets were to jim henson, you cant change history and anyone that doesnt like that I say ignorance is bliss . The beach boys were a real rock band who could produce and arrange their own music and had a natural ability for christ sake, it was rare then and rare now .

I was wondering how long it would take before Joshua started to share is scholarly opinion on the origins of the Beatles successes.  

[pixletwin]

1 - "SFF" is a better production than "GV" ?  With the world's most obvious edit ? Seriously ?

This kind of sounds like Phil Spector's critique of GV. Personally, I don't think the edit in Fields is that obvious, let alone "the world's most obvious" - sure the tempo changes but that could have been done live, even though it wasn't. At any rate, while I prefer GV as a song and as a production over SFF, they are both remarkable productions and I don't find it at all strange that someone is making the case for Fields over Vibes.

I like the "obvious edit" in the same way I like the tape crinkle in GV; It's endearing.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Agreed!

[Niko]

1 - "SFF" is a better production than "GV" ?  With the world's most obvious edit ? Seriously ?

This kind of sounds like Phil Spector's critique of GV. Personally, I don't think the edit in Fields is that obvious, let alone "the world's most obvious" - sure the tempo changes but that could have been done live, even though it wasn't. At any rate, while I prefer GV as a song and as a production over SFF, they are both remarkable productions and I don't find it at all strange that someone is making the case for Fields over Vibes.

I like the "obvious edit" in the same way I like the tape crinkle in GV; It's endearing.

Where do you hear the tape crinkle? I've listened to GV a thousand times, but the tape crinkle doesn't ring a bell.

[pixletwin]

1 - "SFF" is a better production than "GV" ?  With the world's most obvious edit ? Seriously ?

This kind of sounds like Phil Spector's critique of GV. Personally, I don't think the edit in Fields is that obvious, let alone "the world's most obvious" - sure the tempo changes but that could have been done live, even though it wasn't. At any rate, while I prefer GV as a song and as a production over SFF, they are both remarkable productions and I don't find it at all strange that someone is making the case for Fields over Vibes.

I like the "obvious edit" in the same way I like the tape crinkle in GV; It's endearing.

Where do you hear the tape crinkle? I've listened to GV a thousand times, but the tape crinkle doesn't ring a bell.

Listen to the organ at about 0:05/0:06. I am pretty sure it is standard knowledge.
 
http://youtu.be/Eab_beh07HU

If I remember right, the tape reel had been dropped prior to mix down or some such.

[Niko]

Ah, I've noticed that before - thanks for clarifying what it was for me.

As for the Beatles vs Beach Boys...

I am of the opinion that The Beach Boys are the superior group if you're comparing the two band's bodies of work as 'art'. There's depth, variety, quantity and a very high standard of quality + all the odd sh*t like Love You. However, if someone were to say the same thing about The Beatles, I would never say they were wrong - both groups created stunning music that stands as the pinnacle of pop music. I usually just don't bother comparing them

[pixletwin]

I agree. Just playing through Beatles and Beach Boys songs on the piano it becomes very obvious very quickly that there is a complexity to the way Brian constructed a song of a kind one doesn't find in a Lennon/McCartney song.

That being said, I love the both. I burned out on the Beatles a while ago, but they hold an equal place in heart to the Beach Boys but each on it's own very different merits.

[SMiLE Brian]

This thread is awfully kooky.....

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I agree. Just playing through Beatles and Beach Boys songs on the piano it becomes very obvious very quickly that there is a complexity to the way Brian constructed a song of a kind one doesn't find in a Lennon/McCartney song.

That's probably true. However (and this isn't directed toward you) if my central requirement was complexity, I probably wouldn't be listening to either the Beatles or the Beach Boys.

[pixletwin]

I agree. Just playing through Beatles and Beach Boys songs on the piano it becomes very obvious very quickly that there is a complexity to the way Brian constructed a song of a kind one doesn't find in a Lennon/McCartney song.

That's probably true. However (and this isn't directed toward you) if my central requirement was complexity, I probably wouldn't be listening to either the Beatles or the Beach Boys.

I totally agree. It's not the complexity which attracts people 30/50/100 years later. It's the heart of the artists and that is why we are still talking about the Beach Boys AND The Beatles all this time later and will still be talking about them 100 years from now.

[Moon Dawg]

  George Martin didn't "make" The Beatles. The content was always there but he did much to help the form. Their recorded work would have suffered without Martin's production to be sure.

  In terms of rock & roll power, philosophical content, and perhaps musical complexity, The Who (at their best) blow The Beatles away. Did The Who have a better or more consistent career than The Beatles? Nope.

 Compared to The Rolling Stones (or Elvis) The Beatles knew nothing of the blues. That sort of emotional depth was beyond them.

  Was there ever a greater narcissist in the history of rock & roll than Lennon? I doubt it. At least Brian Wilson had the humility not to proclaim his own genius.

  In his way George was the coolest of The Beatles. He didn't crave attention the way John and Paul did.

 

[Niko]

I agree. Just playing through Beatles and Beach Boys songs on the piano it becomes very obvious very quickly that there is a complexity to the way Brian constructed a song of a kind one doesn't find in a Lennon/McCartney song.

That's probably true. However (and this isn't directed toward you) if my central requirement was complexity, I probably wouldn't be listening to either the Beatles or the Beach Boys.

I totally agree. It's not the complexity which attracts people 30/50/100 years later. It's the heart of the artists and that is why we are still talking about the Beach Boys AND The Beatles all this time later and will still be talking about them 100 years from now.

As a musician though, it is fun to break apart Brian's compositions. It adds an extra layer of fun and interest for me - the techniques involved in crafting the layers of sound, the way the notes stack and the complex chord structures. All of it supporting what is, at face-value, accessible pop songs.

The Beatles were very clever in the way they made their songs, but I wouldn't call any of it complex. The Abbey Road medley is full of clever musical ideas that I'm jealous I didn't come up with myself...Pet Sounds and Smile are full of complex musical ideas that make me envious of the musical portion of Brian's brain  

[SMiLE Brian]

The Beatles' genius was how consistently great their music was. Everybody knows their songs to some degree since it was so well made and catchy to boot.

[pixletwin]

Was there ever a greater narcissist in the history of rock & roll than Lennon? I doubt it. At least Brian Wilson had the humility not to proclaim his own genius.

Not sure what that has to do with their musicality. That is a very immature way of weighing an artists work against another.

[Niko]

Rubber Soul to Abbey Road is just album after album of genius.

Within the Beatles catalog, for me, it comes down to Abbey Road or The White Album. Two very different but equally brilliant albums. White Album is almost performance art in its presentation and structure, while Abbey Road is a polished to perfection album of great songs. I'd probably pick The White Album as the superior one though....

Why is Sgt. Pepper so highly rated? It's a great piece of work, but the best album ever made? I can't agree with that - its not even the best Beatles album! My opinions aside, I can't view it objectively as superior than the two albums that followed.

[Moon Dawg]

Rubber Soul to Abbey Road is just album after album of genius.

Within the Beatles catalog, for me, it comes down to Abbey Road or The White Album. Two very different but equally brilliant albums. White Album is almost performance art in its presentation and structure, while Abbey Road is a polished to perfection album of great songs. I'd probably pick The White Album as the superior one though....

Why is Sgt. Pepper so highly rated? It's a great piece of work, but the best album ever made? I can't agree with that - its not even the best Beatles album! My opinions aside, I can't view it objectively as superior than the two albums that followed.

  Mr Kite, Fixing a Hole, Within You Without You, Good Morning Good Morning. Those are all average tunes by Beatles' standards. The concept "let's put on a show"...didn't Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland do that at MGM back in 1939?

[kookadams]

Rubber Soul to Abbey Road is just album after album of genius.

Within the Beatles catalog, for me, it comes down to Abbey Road or The White Album. Two very different but equally brilliant albums. White Album is almost performance art in its presentation and structure, while Abbey Road is a polished to perfection album of great songs. I'd probably pick The White Album as the superior one though....

Why is Sgt. Pepper so highly rated? It's a great piece of work, but the best album ever made? I can't agree with that - its not even the best Beatles album! My opinions aside, I can't view it objectively as superior than the two albums that followed.

rubber soul thru abbey rd??? No way! Meet the beatles thru rubber soul is more accurate.

[Niko]

I've never really liked early Beatles songs too much - atleast not in the way I like the early Beach Boys songs. Both had that rudimentary fun and catchy sound, but both grew 'through' it at about the same pace.

Rubber Soul to Abbey Road is just album after album of genius.

Within the Beatles catalog, for me, it comes down to Abbey Road or The White Album. Two very different but equally brilliant albums. White Album is almost performance art in its presentation and structure, while Abbey Road is a polished to perfection album of great songs. I'd probably pick The White Album as the superior one though....

Why is Sgt. Pepper so highly rated? It's a great piece of work, but the best album ever made? I can't agree with that - its not even the best Beatles album! My opinions aside, I can't view it objectively as superior than the two albums that followed.

  Mr Kite, Fixing a Hole, Within You Without You, Good Morning Good Morning. Those are all average tunes by Beatles' standards. The concept "let's put on a show"...didn't Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland do that at MGM back in 1939?

I've always ignored the concept...and Day in the Life never impressed me. So many music fans hold in such high esteem, but when I listened through the Beatles catalog with no one's opinions but mine shaping the songs I liked the most, Day in the Life was just another song on Sgt. Pepper...not the towering pillar above the rest of the album that it is so often described as.

Or visualized, like in this photo.

[Niko]

rubber soul thru abbey rd??? No way! Meet the beatles thru rubber soul is more accurate.

Dude, Aby Rd is awesome.

[kookadams]

The beatles NEVER had the kinda consistency album-wise that the beach boys had. The beatles had meet hard days night, help and rubber soul before the hippie era sucked the life outta rockNroll while the beach boys had bitchin albums from 63 to 73, and a joke 'filler' track here and there doesnt weaken the album, it adds character...the beatles after revolver werent even a 'band' anymore, they were a acid-fueled studio group and the quality of those last three albums (sgt pep, white and abbey) altho highly regarded doesnt even touch their output of 64-66, I dont care what some think about that cuz rockNroll was a thriving force the first half of the 60s and as vietnam got more intense it took a pretty big toll on the consumption of quality music in america; look at how well the beach boys did in europe and outside the US, americans just didnt care about rock anymore til the mid 70s when endless summer and the ramones got it back on track/ yeah Ive gotten flack for making these kinda responses but ya cant dictate the past you can only reflect on what happened and revert to it in any instance.

[Moon Dawg]

  Always thought "A Day in the Life" was SGT PEPPER's moment of true brilliance. "I Am the Walrus" was their greatest 1967 track in my view.

  Come to think of it, The Beatles do seem to have hundreds of great songs...