What's the Earliest Recorded Evidence of Brian's Vocal Deterioration?

[seltaeb1012002]

WTF is up with Brian's voice at about 0:52 on that YT link?! The 'you got me rockin' part sounds very odd.

Count me as one of those who think Brian's vocals were recorded later...his voice sounds thin as sh*t.

Very thin. It almost sounds like young Brian with the lung capacity and technique of post '76 Brian. The perfect transitional example.

The notes he's trying to reach are high as f*ck. I don't know if he would've been able to sound great on that part without slipping into falsetto no matter what year it was.

Just to play devil's advocate I think it could be as early as '70. Imagine if the guy on the Breakaway demo tried to sing this. The vocal tone is also not too dissimilar from the "Walkin" lead.

[MBE]

I don't make such a big deal about Don't You Just Know It. I think it's just an odd key for him, kind of like Bakers Man etc. Again people need to remember that his lead for Til I Die wasn't cut until spring 1971, his voice on Awake also soars that year, and Won't You Tell Him is wonderful as ever. I'd go as far as to say that if he got clean in late 1974 and lost the weight his voice would have been saved. Rolling Up To Heaven is evidence enough to me.

[runnersdialzero]

"Don't You Just Know It" sounds totally fine. 100% consistent with any other late 60s or early 70s vocal of his, albeit on a track that's much more upbeat than any of those songs. It'd be like if Brian had very few recorded vocals from 64-67 or something and people said his lead on the chorus of "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow" was evidence of deterioration, it's just a matter of it being a very different song when stacked up against, say, "'Til I Die".

Maybe that's what's throwing people off, I don't know, but I'm surprised people are going on about it as if it's the worst recording in the history of recorded history recordingangogmngrrrrrrrrrrr. I don't hear anything suspect on the Spring album etc. either. I listen to "Rollin' Up To Heaven" and it really, really does seem as though 95% of the transition from his Smiley Smile through Holland voice to the 15 Big Ones voice happened overnight. I listen attentively, I was one of those people that others whined about for having "dog ears" with the errors on TSS, I love studying Brian's voice and the changes in it over time, but I'm not hearing a lot of the stuff folks are talking about in here. Just me.

[seltaeb1012002]

He sounds like he just woke up on DYJKI. Definitely doesn't sound like he's particularly "feeling it" here, compared to Til I Die or Awake for instance. I wonder what the circumstances were behind the recording.

It also doesn't help that his vocal is mixed extremely low in the record. There's an outtake floating around with a double tracked lead which if I recall was somewhat better.

[MBE]

"Don't You Just Know It" sounds totally fine. 100% consistent with any other late 60s or early 70s vocal of his, albeit on a track that's much more upbeat than any of those songs. It'd be like if Brian had very few recorded vocals from 64-67 or something and people said his lead on the chorus of "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow" was evidence of deterioration, it's just a matter of it being a very different song when stacked up against, say, "'Til I Die".

Maybe that's what's throwing people off, I don't know, but I'm surprised people are going on about it as if it's the worst recording in the history of recorded history recordingangogmngrrrrrrrrrrr. I don't hear anything suspect on the Spring album etc. either. I listen to "Rollin' Up To Heaven" and it really, really does seem as though 95% of the transition from his Smiley Smile through Holland voice to the 15 Big Ones voice happened overnight. I listen attentively, I was one of those people that others whined about for having "dog ears" with the errors on TSS, I love studying Brian's voice and the changes in it over time, but I'm not hearing a lot of the stuff folks are talking about in here. Just me.

You got it right my friend.

[Dave Modny]

"Don't You Just Know It" sounds totally fine. 100% consistent with any other late 60s or early 70s vocal of his, albeit on a track that's much more upbeat than any of those songs. It'd be like if Brian had very few recorded vocals from 64-67 or something and people said his lead on the chorus of "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow" was evidence of deterioration, it's just a matter of it being a very different song when stacked up against, say, "'Til I Die".

Maybe that's what's throwing people off, I don't know, but I'm surprised people are going on about it as if it's the worst recording in the history of recorded history recordingangogmngrrrrrrrrrrr. I don't hear anything suspect on the Spring album etc. either. I listen to "Rollin' Up To Heaven" and it really, really does seem as though 95% of the transition from his Smiley Smile through Holland voice to the 15 Big Ones voice happened overnight. I listen attentively, I was one of those people that others whined about for having "dog ears" with the errors on TSS, I love studying Brian's voice and the changes in it over time, but I'm not hearing a lot of the stuff folks are talking about in here. Just me.

Yep, me too. It might not be a particularly earth-shattering or profound statement to make, but personally, I still think the tried and true, somewhere-in-1975 date is where I'd place the solid and marked deterioration (or the aforementioned "95%" of it...if you will). That's literally a different person's voice. I mean, even the guy on "Child Of Winter" from 11/74 is still "Brian Wilson: v1.0" to my ears (or perhaps, timbrally, v1.5).

That's where the hopefully forthcoming box set can really help fill in the blanks in giving us a closer idea as to when the big shift occurred. The precious few examples we have from early to mid '75 -- Boat To Sail, Help Me, Rhonda, WDFFIL -- offer few clues. Maybe that '75 version of ITBOMM holds the key? Or something else yet unheard...or a *bit* earlier?

Right now, "Back Home" is still the biggest star on the timeline for me.

[Jay]

One interesting thing that I noticed about the recording of Don't You Just Know It is that there are a few parts where Brian and Jan's "call and response" backing vocals don't always match. Possible evidence that they recorded their parts separately?

[clinikillz]

Am I the only one who can hear remnants of Brian's young voice in this live recording of "That Same Song" (awful song, in my opinion)? Anyone know what year this was recorded? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFeMd3HRtTg

[Cabinessenceking]

Am I the only one who can hear remnants of Brian's young voice in this live recording of "That Same Song" (awful song, in my opinion)? Anyone know what year this was recorded? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFeMd3HRtTg

the studio recording is aweful but that live version with the gospel choir makes it come so much alive, eccentric and VERY Brian

[Iron Horse-Apples]

After listening to the Beach Boys Ultimate Christmas set, I'd have to say that Winter Symphony is the missing link. You can really hear the transition between the young and old voice.

[Mikie]

While listening to Winter Symphony yesterday I thought the same thing. I was thinking it was a 1974 track, the vocals were actually recorded in 1977. A "transition track" to me would be a 1974-1975 Brian vocal. The last one I can hear is "Child Of Winter" in late '74.

Then there's "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from 1978 which confuses things. 

[schiaffino]

While listening to Winter Symphony yesterday I thought the same thing. I was thinking it was a 1974 track, the vocals were actually recorded in 1977. A "transition track" to me would be a 1974-1975 Brian vocal. The last one I can hear is "Child Of Winter" in late '74.

Then there's "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from 1978 which confuses things. 

Oh My God!!!! Just listened to 'Matchpoint of our love'....this is an amazing, amazing song!!!! And this is from 1978? From the MIU album??? And this is the same Brian that sang on 'Love You' one year before?

Have you guys seen this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qb9vV-H9ec

I think I found my latest BB obsession...I feel like a really really bad fan for not knowing this (I tend to ignore anything post LY)...what was I thinking??

[Andrew G. Doe]

One interesting thing that I noticed about the recording of Don't You Just Know It is that there are a few parts where Brian and Jan's "call and response" backing vocals don't always match. Possible evidence that they recorded their parts separately?

The better evidence is a booted version with only Brian's vocals.

[Alan Smith]

While listening to Winter Symphony yesterday I thought the same thing. I was thinking it was a 1974 track, the vocals were actually recorded in 1977. A "transition track" to me would be a 1974-1975 Brian vocal. The last one I can hear is "Child Of Winter" in late '74.

Then there's "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from 1978 which confuses things.  

Pretty close, Mikie, good memory - just had a quick look at the "Christmas with the..." track annotation by Brad Elliot;says the track sessions were '75 or '76 at Brother Studios; the vox and sweetenin' were Oct-Nov 1977 at MIU institute; so Match Point and WS are from the same egg.

Sorry if someone has also mentioned or linked, but thought the observations from C-Man's essay on POB and Dennis's vocals - while not answering the OP question - adds some context and confirms the 74/75 timeframe: C-Man notes a common factor to the change in their voices was the devastating psychological impact of Murry's death in '73 on Dennis and Brian, after which they aped Murray's manly chest register, evidenced in their speaking/singing voices.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The MIU sessions vocals - and never returning to that quality again - is more perplexing to me than any period.

In my opinion, the deterioration around 1974-75-76 can be explained in one word - cocaine. Not smoking, not drinking, not being rusty, not trying to sound masculine. I have a feeling that Brian CONTINUALLY went over to friends' houses (or in his room) and snorted large quantities of cocaine. I don't think Brian or anybody else could predict what voice Brian would be "left with" after scorching his vocal chords. Well, we found out in early 1976. It couldn't be much worse.

But, to some extent, he healed. While Stan & Rocky's methods of handling some issues could be questioned, I believe they did an excellent job in the short time they were hired to rehabilitate Brian physically. There was a huge difference in just one year from the Brian Wilson of 1976 and the Brian Wilson of mid-late 1977. As someone who purchased MIU on the day it was released, I was ecstatic. Not only could I live with Brian's MIU vocals, I liked them. And, then again, he was gone.

No lead vocals on L.A. Light Album, no lead vocals on Keepin' The Summer Alive. No lead vocals again until 1985. WTF? That's almost 8 long years of no Brian Wilson lead vocals on a Beach Boys' album! Those smooth, fairly calm, "normal", Brian vocals of 1977 were so short-lived. How frustrating. I love "Winter Symphony", 'Matchpoint", and "Wontcha Come Out Tonight". I could easily live with his falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", on "Belles Of Paris", on the end of "Winds Of Change".

But, for some reason, when he re-merged the second time with Landy, he was employing that shouty, boisterous vocal style. Ugh. And, very rarely, and not consistently until around Gershwin and Disney, did Brian ever return to his relaxed singing style. Very frustrating. 

 

[MBE]

One quick thing is that Cool, Cool, Water has vocals from the Smile., Wild Honey, and late Sunflower sessions from Brian and he is a perfect match.

[wantsomecorn]

How far apart were Brian's vocals for "She's Got Rhythm" and "Matchpoint" recorded? Matchpoint sounds great, almost like his pre-15BO years, but "She's Got Rhythm" sounds like the early form of his newer, "shouty" vocals. Could he have just been having a good/bad day on each recording, or is it because he's straining himself trying to do his old falsetto on She's Got Rhythm?

[MBE]

Both were fall of 1977. Brian was straining on the high notes on SGR so that's why you here a difference. Matchpoint was a better registar for him post 1974.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I never had a problem with Brian's falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", maybe because it was following his vocals from 15 Big Ones and Love You. Considering where he had been a year earlier, it's quite remarkable. And, there aren't many (any?) better falsettos in the ensuing 35 years. Maybe a slightly better intro would've helped?

[MBE]

I don't mind it either but he sounds more Frankie Vali than Brian Wilson there.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I fucking hate the Four Seasons.

[MBE]

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I f***ing hate the Four Seasons.

Ok not that bad. I understand their appeal but it isn't for me.

[The Heartical Don]

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I f***ing hate the Four Seasons.

Don't really hate them, but cannot stand Valli's voice either. It's a bit like the Rubettes' Paul da Vinci.

[John Manning]

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I f***ing hate the Four Seasons.

Don't really hate them, but cannot stand Valli's voice either. It's a bit like the Rubettes' Paul da Vinci.

Blimey Don, the Rubettes! One of the first records I ever bought was Sugar Baby Love… Girlfriend was a bit horrified when it came on the radio yesterday and I could sing along!

[The Heartical Don]

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I f***ing hate the Four Seasons.

Don't really hate them, but cannot stand Valli's voice either. It's a bit like the Rubettes' Paul da Vinci.

Blimey Don, the Rubettes! One of the first records I ever bought was Sugar Baby Love… Girlfriend was a bit horrified when it came on the radio yesterday and I could sing along!

 

You can sing that high?