What's the Earliest Recorded Evidence of Brian's Vocal Deterioration?

[MBE]

Well, when did Brian start using cocaine?
And when did he become a heavy smoker, because I think I remember reading that he wasn't a heavy smoker in the 60s.

Carl said the cocaine problem got bad in 1972 but he probably first tried it late 1968. There has been no info on Brian's vocal from Don't You Just Know It except the Elliot book that's why I wonder.
Still California Saga is OK by me. He never had the tone of sweetness you can still hear there.

[Quzi]

I think Brian's deterioration wasn't just fuelled by booze, drugs n' smokes. You gotta remember that in the early sixties, he had live performances to keep his voice in shape, even when he stopped touring for 1965/66 he had sessions for Today!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!), Party, Pet Sounds, Smile, occasional TV appearances etc. etc. he was pretty regular with using his voice. The dude was treating his pipes with less practice from '67 - '73, evidenced by less leads, less background vocal appearances and more time spent between each recording sessions. If he had a little vocal coaching in '69-'71 I doubt the shrillness and deterioration people describe would be as prominent. I'd wager 70% of the change of the timbre of his voice from '65 to '71 was reversible.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

His weight gain I'm sure affected it as well.

[harrisonjon]

The 'Forever' scream is on an official release (Hawthorne), not just b**ted.

[Dave Modny]

The 'Forever' scream is on an official release (Hawthorne), not just b**ted.

Yes, it is on there as well -- around the 2:45 mark. Sure to clean the wax out of anyone's ears if they're wearing headphones!

[Paul J B]

For those who were there from the beginning.....When 15BO's came out were you not shocked at Brian's vocals? His voice may have changed a little during the late 60's early 70's, but since he had very few lead vocals I don't think the average fan would have noticed anything until 15BO's. It must have stunned people.

[guitarfool2002]

For a comparison, listen to Harry Nilsson in the 60's versus his later vocals. It's the same effect caused by too much booze, cigarettes, and cocaine, in whatever measure each of those substances are abused. The early-to-mid 70's was a terrible time for overindulgence.

Honestly, singers like Sinatra and Dionne Warwick smoked heavily for years, and managed to maintain their voices for the most part well into their 60's and beyond. Many, many singers smoked and drank heavily yet stayed somewhat the same vocally. But as soon as you get into the other stuff, as heavily as some do, you'll hear the voice go downhill pretty fast. Of course, you have John Lennon too who was Harry's partner in crime, a chronic heavy chain-smoker, and listen to his recordings from 1980: Lennon's was still a strong voice that had pretty much kept his full range.

It is sad because that Brian voice in the 60's was angelic, and the guy had an innate ability to automatically sing in tune with whatever he was doing or hearing. That falsetto was as good as any male falsetto in all of pop music history. You hate to see something like that go away.

[Sheriff John Stone]

For those who were there from the beginning.....When 15BO's came out were you not shocked at Brian's vocals? His voice may have changed a little during the late 60's early 70's, but since he had very few lead vocals I don't think the average fan would have noticed anything until 15BO's. It must have stunned people.

I wasn't there from the beginning. I was hooked in 1974-75 by Endless Summer and Spirit Of America. I quickly read a couple of books and bought as many older albums as I could find. I did my homework and knew the guys' voices pretty well.

Yeah, it was shocking and stunning when I first bought/heard 15 Big Ones. It was a little uncomfortable; I had mixed feelings. It was a new Beach Boys' album, produced by Brian Wilson, "Rock And Roll Music" was a hit, and the band was all over the place. You wanted to be happy and positive and go with the flow and enjoy the experience - which I did. But there was a nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right. I can remember one time, listening to Side B of 15 Big Ones, with Dennis singing "In The Still Of The Night" and Brian singing "Back Home" and parts of "Just Once In My Life". And I remember thinking that, while I might be enjoying this album (I still think it's one of Brian's best produced albums), the general public isn't going to like this, mainly because of the vocals. I was thinking that this album was ultimately going to disappoint (in comparison to Endless Summer), and the band was going to pay for it, which they did.

There's a lot of reasons for the lack of critical and commercial success of BB albums in the late 1970's, but I put the vocals right near the top.

[harrisonjon]

re. Sinatra, Warwick(e), Lennon:

I think all those cases can be disputed. Sinatra's vocal changes were noted by many, such as:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/music/sinatra-det.php

But generally you're right that cocaine would have wrecked these voices rapidly and more fully than was the case. Billie Holiday is an obvious example, croaking away on her last album sounding like she was in her eighties even though she was only 44. She may actually be the closest comparison to Brian.

Can we think of other singers whose decline was documented as clearly as Holiday's and Wilson's? Harry Nilsson, noted. Chet Baker, maybe? Dennis Wilson?

[Mikie]

"Forever scream"? Who's screaming? That's his natural voice! And who said anything about it being booted?

[Bean Bag]

Even the breakaway demo shows Brian's voice slowly going downhill.

Yeah, this is what I've always thought.  1969.  He still hits the notes...but the sweetness is gone.  It's a little more forced and nasal (?).  During the classic years, his falsetto is glassy smooth, with a lot of body, warmth and roundness -- and when double tracked it just shimmered and sparkled.

But around 1969, and I've always pin-pointed Breakaway, it's sounds thinner, less body, a little shrill and squeaky.  The notes are there but something's missing.  It could be his heart's not in it... and he's just phoning it in ... but I suspect it was more than that.

Smiley, Wild Honey and Friends don't exhibit these qualities... he still sounds like he always did.  20/20 is mixed.

As a result... the 69-72 period is actually my least favorite phase of Brian's voice.  Because it sounds more forced.  I actually prefer his 8-packs-a-day sound on 15 big ones.  But that's me!   

[Bean Bag]

I think Brian's deterioration wasn't just fuelled by booze, drugs n' smokes. You gotta remember that in the early sixties, he had live performances to keep his voice in shape, even when he stopped touring for 1965/66 he had sessions for Today!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!), Party, Pet Sounds, Smile, occasional TV appearances etc. etc. he was pretty regular with using his voice. The dude was treating his pipes with less practice from '67 - '73, evidenced by less leads, less background vocal appearances and more time spent between each recording sessions. If he had a little vocal coaching in '69-'71 I doubt the shrillness and deterioration people describe would be as prominent. I'd wager 70% of the change of the timbre of his voice from '65 to '71 was reversible.

Good points.  I think that played a role.  But cigarettes... whew.  You don't hear it too much these days... but think Lucille Ball.  Smokes really drag the vocal chords to hell and back.

But age, in general, changes quite a lot.  No singer can hit the notes at 50 that he/she hit at 16.  If they can... the timbre and power will have lessened.  But you're right... since Brian's changes happened quite early in life, lack of practice and effort and all that, certainly would have diminished it.

[Mikie]

Honestly, singers like Sinatra and Dionne Warwick smoked heavily for years, and managed to maintain their voices for the most part well into their 60's and beyond. Many, many singers smoked and drank heavily yet stayed somewhat the same vocally.

Agreed. And I always wondered about that. I don't understand it. Even Whitney Houston held it together after doing all that coke and drink. I guess some people's vocal chords are more sensitive to it than others, I dunno. Coke goes down the pipe like shrapnel, tearing like small pieces of glass as it goes, and hash burns like a mofo. Maybe that combo. But I always wondered how a lot of other singers got away with all that partying and their voice wasn't thrashed like Brian's.

Look at Carl Wilson. He smoked like a chimney for years and drank for awhile and did a little smack too. But I don't hear his voice deteriorating much, if at all. Maybe because he exercised his voice a lot from being on the road.

[Mike's Beard]

I think Brian's best vocals were in the early days of "In My Room", "Your Summer Dream", "Don't Worry Baby" etc. That early 1950's Doo-Wop influenced style was fantastic. By "Friends" he really did start sounding like Mickey Mouse! He must have known too because suddenly Carl started getting all of his leads.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Whitney Houston did indeed lose her voice... Listen to any live recordings from the last few years of her life. It scary.

Coke also is killing Mariah Carey's voice.

[guitarfool2002]

Honestly, singers like Sinatra and Dionne Warwick smoked heavily for years, and managed to maintain their voices for the most part well into their 60's and beyond. Many, many singers smoked and drank heavily yet stayed somewhat the same vocally.

Agreed. And I always wondered about that. I don't understand it. Even Whitney Houston held it together after doing all that coke and drink. I guess some people's vocal chords are more sensitive to it than others, I dunno. Coke goes down the pipe like shrapnel, tearing like small pieces of glass as it goes, and hash burns like a mofo. Maybe that combo. But I always wondered how a lot of other singers got away with all that partying and their voice wasn't thrashed like Brian's.

Look at Carl Wilson. He smoked like a chimney for years and drank for awhile and did a little smack too. But I don't hear his voice deteriorating much, if at all. Maybe because he exercised his voice a lot from being on the road.

It's one of those mysteries along the lines of those people who smoke regularly for decades and never develop lung cancer, while others who barely if ever smoked for any substantial periods of time die from lung cancer. Likewise, those people who eat unhealthy, drink, smoke, etc yet live into their 90's while some people who are very physically active and fit die before age 40 of natural causes.

I'm wracking my brain trying to find others, but I think Harry Nilsson may be the worst case of what we're talking about. yet Lennon, his partying buddy, came out of it sounding like Lennon where Harry's voice was just destroyed...which is a real shame, it happened in a matter of years rather than decades.

Carl is a great example of the opposite: I might be missing a few examples, but on all of the concerts, tapes, videos, etc up until the time he passed away, I cannot think of one where we can hear the effects of his heavy smoking on his vocals. He always sounded like Carl, and even going back to the mid 60's you see candid photos or vids of him and he was rarely without a cigarette in his hand.

[Mikie]

Yeah, and lookit George Burns. They say one cigar is equivalent to 5 cigarettes. Dunno if it's true, but he lived to be almost a hunderd! And another guy I knew, newspaper columnist Herb Cain from the S.F. Chronicle. He quit smoking 20 years before he died of lung cancer!!  So.........it's about the individual and their own sensitivities, I guess.

[Bean Bag]

I think Brian's best vocals were in the early days of "In My Room", "Your Summer Dream", "Don't Worry Baby" etc. That early 1950's Doo-Wop influenced style was fantastic. By "Friends" he really did start sounding like Mickey Mouse! He must have known too because suddenly Carl started getting all of his leads.

Actually, I want to change my answer... you're right.  Even by Friends it was changing.  I previously said 1969, 20/20, Breakaway.

[Bean Bag]

Actually Sinatra's voice did change too.  He was buttery smooth -- insanely so, smoother than Bing!! -- in the 30s and 40s.  He developed a bark in the 50's and 60's.  It worked for him.  He knew what to do with it.

Instead of dreamily crooning... he used it as an added edge.  "Luck...be a laaady... tonight!"

Badda bing.

[Paul J B]

For those who were there from the beginning.....When 15BO's came out were you not shocked at Brian's vocals? His voice may have changed a little during the late 60's early 70's, but since he had very few lead vocals I don't think the average fan would have noticed anything until 15BO's. It must have stunned people.

I wasn't there from the beginning. I was hooked in 1974-75 by Endless Summer and Spirit Of America. I quickly read a couple of books and bought as many older albums as I could find. I did my homework and knew the guys' voices pretty well.

Yeah, it was shocking and stunning when I first bought/heard 15 Big Ones. It was a little uncomfortable; I had mixed feelings. It was a new Beach Boys' album, produced by Brian Wilson, "Rock And Roll Music" was a hit, and the band was all over the place. You wanted to be happy and positive and go with the flow and enjoy the experience - which I did. But there was a nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right. I can remember one time, listening to Side B of 15 Big Ones, with Dennis singing "In The Still Of The Night" and Brian singing "Back Home" and parts of "Just Once In My Life". And I remember thinking that, while I might be enjoying this album (I still think it's one of Brian's best produced albums), the general public isn't going to like this, mainly because of the vocals. I was thinking that this album was ultimately going to disappoint (in comparison to Endless Summer), and the band was going to pay for it, which they did.

There's a lot of reasons for the lack of critical and commercial success of BB albums in the late 1970's, but I put the vocals right near the top.

WOW....Had the same thing happen starting with Endless Summer as well!

I was still new to the Beach Boys and thought a lot of Brian's singing on 15BO's was Denny at first. As the years unfolded it was really sad to realize that the guy with the gift of a voice/falsetto had become the worst voice in the band. Even though his singing is hit and miss today, it's really amazing that we have been able to witness some decent vocals again from Brian all these years later.

Another person that clearly trashed their voice in huge part to cocaine is Stevie Nicks. The using caught up with her like night and day in/around '84.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Good call on Nicks.

Carl's voice did change though. His voice was much sweeter in the early seventies than in the latter part of the decade.
Tom Waits is another good example. If one heard his pre-debut material then heard him after his third or fourth albums...

[Dave Modny]

"Forever scream"? Who's screaming? That's his natural voice! And who said anything about it being booted?

What would you call that moment during the trail-out at 2:45 on the Hawthorne, vocals-only mix then? Sure sounds like a scream to me. A wordless "shriek" perhaps...lol?

2:45:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k


BTW, I'm the one who said that a vocals-only mix was b**ted (as well as being on Hawthorne). Goodbye Surfing, Hello God, I believe. Now, I'm not saying I would own such a thing. That's just wrong. 

[Amy B.]

Actually Sinatra's voice did change too.  He was buttery smooth -- insanely so, smoother than Bing!! -- in the 30s and 40s.  He developed a bark in the 50's and 60's.  It worked for him.  He knew what to do with it.

Instead of dreamily crooning... he used it as an added edge.  "Luck...be a laaady... tonight!"

Badda bing.

I wonder what his bobby soxer fans thought when that voice changed! It's funny to see that skinny kid crooning away in the films from the 40s.

[Amy B.]

I think Brian's best vocals were in the early days of "In My Room", "Your Summer Dream", "Don't Worry Baby" etc. That early 1950's Doo-Wop influenced style was fantastic. By "Friends" he really did start sounding like Mickey Mouse! He must have known too because suddenly Carl started getting all of his leads.

Actually, I want to change my answer... you're right.  Even by Friends it was changing.  I previously said 1969, 20/20, Breakaway.

The Beatles stopped touring too, and their voices didn't change. Well, Paul stopped doing his Little Richard screaming, but that's about it. Maybe George's voice thinned out, but it worked for him. It's only in the last couple decades that Paul's voice has really deteriorated, probably due to age.

[Mikie]

"Forever scream"? Who's screaming? That's his natural voice! And who said anything about it being booted?

What would you call that moment during the trail-out at 2:45 on the Hawthorne, vocals-only mix then? Sure sounds like a scream to me. A wordless "shriek" perhaps...lol?

2:45:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k


BTW, I'm the one who said that a vocals-only mix was b**ted (as well as being on Hawthorne). Goodbye Surfing, Hello God, I believe. Now, I'm not saying I would own such a thing. That's just wrong. 

You're right!!  I totally forgot that it was booted way before the Hawthorne release!  On Vigotone, around 2001!

But his voice. It was thin, but that was his normal voice on that. Just like the Spring album. Until 2:45 when it becomes a shriek as he attempts an even higher note at the end. Dunno if he could hit a note that high before that, but it didn't sound good. Never was meant to be heard of course......