Fifty Years of the Beatles poll

[Ron]

But.... all my favourite Beatles songs are singles! 

My old favourite used to be Help! but I haven't listened to that for ages.

Ticket To Ride is my favorite Beatles song. It is nearly flawless in production, execution, lead vocal and mostly for Ringo's drumming.

I agree it's a near perfect track.  Lennon's vocal is artwork in itself.  Paul's backup vox are great too, when I was younger I used to listen to it over and over again, alternating between who I would try to sing along with.  Ringo's drums are just super cool on this track, it's a good song to play for somebody, and say "Listen: Ringo was great" because they can't refute the evidence on that song.  It's also a fun song to play on guitar, you can work those little fills in.

[Lonely Summer]

I would've chosen Meet the Beatles if it was on there. Yes, Meet...not With...the Smithereens thought enough of it to cover the entire album.

[hypehat]

But.... all my favourite Beatles songs are singles! 

My old favourite used to be Help! but I haven't listened to that for ages.

Ticket To Ride is my favorite Beatles song. It is nearly flawless in production, execution, lead vocal and mostly for Ringo's drumming.

I agree it's a near perfect track.  Lennon's vocal is artwork in itself.  Paul's backup vox are great too, when I was younger I used to listen to it over and over again, alternating between who I would try to sing along with.  Ringo's drums are just super cool on this track, it's a good song to play for somebody, and say "Listen: Ringo was great" because they can't refute the evidence on that song.  It's also a fun song to play on guitar, you can work those little fills in.

Agree 100% (which is rare for us, Ron  ) Paul's 'harmony'/screaming like a badman totally makes it for me. In mono it's an absolute sledgehammer too. Love those tom rolls Ringo does when it goes back into the verse. Such power!

[pixletwin]

I just can't get into the US Rubber Soul. Without Nowhere Man, Rubber Soul just can't be Rubber Soul.

[drbeachboy]

I just can't get into the US Rubber Soul. Without Nowhere Man, Rubber Soul just can't be Rubber Soul.

I guess you just have to be an old head. At the time, no U.S. citizen had any idea that Capitol futzed with the orignal tracking. We got those on Yesterday... and Today. I never heard the original until I bought the original CD version back in 1989-1990 or so.

[hypehat]

Exactly - it took me forever listening to the UK Rubber Soul (the one I always knew) and thinking 'man, this made Brian make Pet Sounds! Rad!' until I realised, well.... that it didn't 

Haven't tried the US sequence, honestly. Maybe if I can stop listening to the Persuasions for five minutes, I will.

[Newguy562]

Exactly - it took me forever listening to the UK Rubber Soul (the one I always knew) and thinking 'man, this made Brian make Pet Sounds! Rad!' until I realised, well.... that it didn't 

Haven't tried the US sequence, honestly. Maybe if I can stop listening to the Persuasions for five minutes, I will.

i'm very sad ..

[vintagemusic]

I haven't voted yet. I have about five favorites, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White Album and Abbey Road
all for different reasons. Lennon's favorites were the first album and The White album I think.

Rubber Soul was the first complete album, where the songs had a connection with each other, more than just a dozen
unrelated tracks strung out together to complete an album. It had a vibe, and the running order was important, and it
had that hippie acoustic vibe.

Revolver was the peak in a way, swinging from Baroque classical influence ala Vivaldi on Eleanor Rigby, to the Goons influenced
and old English Vaudville and effects of Yellow Submarine, to the acid drenched book of the dead inspired Tomorrow Never Knows
to the cinema verite of Harrison's opening hhumm two three four on Taxman.

Sgt Pepper, gave the impression to the listener of the first true concept album, with the crossfades, sound effects and alter ego
of the Sgt Pepper band. Although song for song, Rubber Soul and Revolver may beat the Pepper songs in a one against one line up.

The White album with it's stark white blank cover, 30 songs, 30 Beatles songs! on  one album in 1968! swinging from Blackbird to
Yer Blues and Helter Skelter! Where for the first time, possiibly Harrison wrote the best tune on the album. Ringo said in a fairly recent
interview ' That';s a lot of information on one album" So yeah maybe Geogre Martin's idea of paring it down to one album with the     14 best
like Revolver, Ringo joked, there should have been two albums "white and whiter" Lennon also re-emerges on the WHite album with parity to Macca.

Abbey Road, possibly the first popular Symphonic Rock, with the complete medley on side two. Lennon once said, "thats was all bits of unfinished
crap and George Martin just snipped them altogether.  By Contrast George Martin said, Side one was for John, the simpler rocknroll side, and side
two with the symphonic medley was more for Paul McCartney. George Harrison again emereged with arguably the two best songs, the Classics
Something and Here Comes the Sun, Where Lennon had stumbled and not had a lot of finished songs for either Let it Be or Abbey Road, where
it sticks out like a sore thumb on Let it Be, it worked to their advantage on Abbey Road, because Lennons cool little bits, helped the Medley and
Harrison elbowed two fantastic songs onto the album. Of course its partially a myth, because if you listen to the 68 white album demos of Polythene
Pam and Mr Mustard, they are pretty well formed and finished. It's just they were like Lennons earlier abstract period where he wrote songs about
characters like the Norwhere man or Dr Robert, and Lennon had disavowed that kind of work in favor of the simplistic primal method like I want you
and Dig A Pony.    


So I'll vote for one, but I'll regret it, because those are my top five.   the reason I don't include Mystery Tour is because in my heart Penny Lane
and Strawberry Fields are really Pepper songs, as they were originally intended, and once you do that in your mind, Pepper becomes gigantic
and Mystery Tour looks more like the EP it was intended to be. Although song for song, the released 11 song Mystery Tour is hard to beat. Two or
three clunkers and 7 or 8 classics, but cobbled together from various singles, not really recorded as an album.

[Newguy562]

I haven't voted yet. I have about five favorites, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White Album and Abbey Road
all for different reasons. Lennon's favorites were the first album and The White album I think.

Rubber Soul was the first complete album, where the songs had a connection with each other, more than just a dozen
unrelated tracks strung out together to complete an album. It had a vibe, and the running order was important, and it
had that hippie acoustic vibe.

Revolver was the peak in a way, swinging from Baroque classical influence ala Vivaldi on Eleanor Rigby, to the Goons influenced
and old English Vaudville and effects of Yellow Submarine, to the acid drenched book of the dead inspired Tomorrow Never Knows
to the cinema verite of Harrison's opening hhumm two three four on Taxman.

Sgt Pepper, gave the impression to the listener of the first true concept album, with the crossfades, sound effects and alter ego
of the Sgt Pepper band. Although song for song, Rubber Soul and Revolver may beat the Pepper songs in a one against one line up.

The White album with it's stark white blank cover, 30 songs, 30 Beatles songs! on  one album in 1968! swinging from Blackbird to
Yer Blues and Helter Skelter! Where for the first time, possiibly Harrison wrote the best tune on the album. Ringo said in a fairly recent
interview ' That';s a lot of information on one album" So yeah maybe Geogre Martin's idea of paring it down to one album with the     14 best
like Revolver, Ringo joked, there should have been two albums "white and whiter" Lennon also re-emerges on the WHite album with parity to Macca.

Abbey Road, possibly the first popular Symphonic Rock, with the complete medley on side two. Lennon once said, "thats was all bits of unfinished
crap and George Martin just snipped them altogether.  By Contrast George Martin said, Side one was for John, the simpler rocknroll side, and side
two with the symphonic medley was more for Paul McCartney. George Harrison again emereged with arguably the two best songs, the Classics
Something and Here Comes the Sun, Where Lennon had stumbled and not had a lot of finished songs for either Let it Be or Abbey Road, where
it sticks out like a sore thumb on Let it Be, it worked to their advantage on Abbey Road, because Lennons cool little bits, helped the Medley and
Harrison elbowed two fantastic songs onto the album. Of course its partially a myth, because if you listen to the 68 white album demos of Polythene
Pam and Mr Mustard, they are pretty well formed and finished. It's just they were like Lennons earlier abstract period where he wrote songs about
characters like the Norwhere man or Dr Robert, and Lennon had disavowed that kind of work in favor of the simplistic primal method like I want you
and Dig A Pony.    


So I'll vote for one, but I'll regret it, because those are my top five.   the reason I don't include Mystery Tour is because in my heart Penny Lane
and Strawberry Fields are really Pepper songs, as they were originally intended, and once you do that in your mind, Pepper becomes gigantic
and Mystery Tour looks more like the EP it was intended to be. Although song for song, the released 11 song Mystery Tour is hard to beat. Two or
three clunkers and 7 or 8 classics, but cobbled together from various singles, not really recorded as an album.

no lennon's favorite was magical mystery tour ...at least one of the last interviews he did he said that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

no lennon's favorite was magical mystery tour ...at least one of the last interviews he did he said that.

He said it was "one of" his favourites, not his favourite. I think based on most of the things he's said, it seems like The White Album was his favourite.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Also, it wasn't from one of his last interviews. It was from his guest spot as a Radio DJ in 1974. See about 12 minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXJhTbVqlC0&feature=related

[vintagemusic]

Although Lennon is generally considered to be straightforwared and honest. Sometimes Lennon would
change his mind, or say things he happened to feel at that moment only. Or disparage things McCartney
would get more credit for, out of jealousy.

Lennon is clearly on record however, for liking the first Beatle album (Please Please Me) and the White album.
However if you listen to bootlegs of Lennon, you will often hear him playing McCartney songs like Another Day
or Yellow Submarine, so you know he bothered learning how to play Uncle Albert for one jam.

Lennon barely admitted he played Band On The Run, but as insecure as he was, we probably know he
played it a ton, and Wildlife and Ram had some subtle digs about Lennon "Too Many People" and Lennon
responded with How Do You Sleep, so Lennon must have been listening secretly. So is it any surprise
Lennon always picks Beatles Albums, where he is more in the forefront.

Unlike 67 and 69 where McCartney got more songs on the albums than Lennon, the White Album
Lennon had a dozen songs, and they were highly regarded. His 67 songs, I am The Walrus, Lucy In the Sky
All You Need is Love and Benefit of Mr Kite, were highly regarded too, but McCartney got the title songs, and
more songs, so Lennon always disses those albums as being too "McCartney" though secretly I think he
was pleased, when his paranoia was not getting the better of him. Talk about an insecure guy, Yet McCartney
is similar, talking about Lennon songs after his death, and inferring he wrote parts of them like Lucy in the Sky
and Benefit of Mr Kite, thinkgs McCartney never said while Lennon was alive.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I think too that he liked PPM and The White because they were perhaps the least glossy. He always criticized what he called "production bullshit" and lamented that Abbey Road was a return to this after what, to him, were more "real" efforts - The White Album and the Get Back sessions.

[Ron]

That's how I read John too. 

[vintagemusic]

That's how I read John too. 

You guys are both right certainly. On the other hand Lennon was a very contrarian guy. Double Fantasy
on the other hand was about as glossy and slick as you could get. The top session guys in New York
Tony Levin on bass, Levin is/was one of the best slickest guys on the planet. Jack Douglas is a fairly
slick producer, on the other hand, instead of a surefire winner with his comeback album, Lennon turned
it into the "Double Fantasy" trip, a so called love dialogue between John and Yoko, most people I knew
who were into Lennon, bit their lip and bought the album because for cryin out loud! there were seven
brand new John Lennon songs! Most people (no offense Yoko) just lifted the needle and skipped her songs
or burned a homemade cassette with just the seven songs.


So you know, mr antiproduction  anti jiggery pokerty made a totally slick album, with the best session guys
around,    on the other hand, splitting the album with Yoko alternating songs, probably was the unhappiest
thing you could do to a lot of older Lennon fans, IHe kind of had to go for a slick production with her singing
and writing, she was never gonna be able to sing passable vocals in a quick , raw or unplugged kind of album.


John Lennon was very believable in   defending any point of view, and six months later he was liable to be doing
the opposite.


John Lennon on Plastic Ono Band, I don't believe in Elvis, Zimmerman, Beatles, I-ching, I just believe in me, Yoko and me
The stunning raw stark, barely overdubbed masterpiece. And what had Lennon been doing just before that?
he had been   in therapy with his current guru Arthur Janov, and who played drums? A beatle Ringo Starr, and who
produced the album, another musical guru, Phil Spector.


I love Lennon more than any other musical Icon in history, except the Beatles as a whole, what did Lennon say shortly
before his death about the Beatles, he said, I don't care one way or the other if I ever see any of them again, if your'e
into that Beatles getting together, go listen to the old records he said.

What did Jack Douglas publicly disclose not long ago, that secretly before his death, Lennon and McCartney had had a writing
session, were planning to both play together to back Ringo, and get George Harrison aboard when the time actually came. so
yeah the Beatles were gonna get together in the studio with new songs, and be Ringo Starr's back up band! so by opening the
door that way, it would open the door, to other reunion possibilities. What did Lennon say about the Beatles, he said, "It doesnt
matter if George and Ringo are there or not, because me and Paul wrote the music, but what did he do in acual practice, he made plans
to record with Ringo, while he is telling a reporter it doesnt matter to him if he ever sees them again for the rest of his life.

John Lennon is hard to take at face value. He reminds me of a bi polar girlfriend I once had, who would say she wanted to get married
and have children one day, and sleep with the next door neighbor the next day


I voted Revolver, for best album, it had the most parity between the three Writers, the most different styles of music on one album
from Vivaldi to dance hall to acid rock, to motown to Indian music to lyrics about a lonely spinster, the tibetan book of the dead, and
politics of the revenue service. There is no right answer, a case could be made for about seven or eight of their studio albus

[vintagemusic]

That's how I read John too. 

You guys are both right certainly. On the other hand Lennon was a very contrarian guy. Double Fantasy
on the other hand was about as glossy and slick as you could get. The top session guys in New York
Tony Levin on bass, Levin is/was one of the best slickest guys on the planet. Jack Douglas is a fairly
slick producer, on the other hand, instead of a surefire winner with his comeback album, Lennon turned
it into the "Double Fantasy" trip, a so called love dialogue between John and Yoko, most people I knew
who were into Lennon, bit their lip and bought the album because for cryin out loud! there were seven
brand new John Lennon songs! Most people (no offense Yoko) just lifted the needle and skipped her songs
or burned a homemade cassette with just the seven songs.


So you know, mr antiproduction  anti jiggery pokerty made a totally slick album, with the best session guys
around,    on the other hand, splitting the album with Yoko alternating songs, probably was the unhappiest
thing you could do to a lot of older Lennon fans, IHe kind of had to go for a slick production with her singing
and writing, she was never gonna be able to sing passable vocals in a quick , raw or unplugged kind of album.


John Lennon was very believable in   defending any point of view, and six months later he was liable to be doing
the opposite.


John Lennon on Plastic Ono Band, I don't believe in Elvis, Zimmerman, Beatles, I-ching, I just believe in me, Yoko and me
The stunning raw stark, barely overdubbed masterpiece. And what had Lennon been doing just before that?
he had been   in therapy with his current guru Arthur Janov, and who played drums? A beatle Ringo Starr, and who
produced the album, another musical guru, Phil Spector.


I love Lennon more than any other musical Icon in history, except the Beatles as a whole, what did Lennon say shortly
before his death about the Beatles, he said, I don't care one way or the other if I ever see any of them again, if your'e
into that Beatles getting together, go listen to the old records he said.

What did Jack Douglas publicly disclose not long ago, that secretly before his death, Lennon and McCartney had had a writing
session, were planning to both play together to back Ringo, and get George Harrison aboard when the time actually came. so
yeah the Beatles were gonna get together in the studio with new songs, and be Ringo Starr's back up band! so by opening the
door that way, it would open the door, to other reunion possibilities. What did Lennon say about the Beatles, he said, "It doesnt
matter if George and Ringo are there or not, because me and Paul wrote the music, but what did he do in acual practice, he made plans
to record with Ringo, while he is telling a reporter it doesnt matter to him if he ever sees them again for the rest of his life.

John Lennon is hard to take at face value. He reminds me of a bi polar girlfriend I once had, who would say she wanted to get married
and have children one day, and sleep with the next door neighbor the next day


I voted Revolver, for best album, it had the most parity between the three Writers, the most different styles of music on one album
from Vivaldi to dance hall to acid rock, to motown to Indian music to lyrics about a lonely spinster, the tibetan book of the dead, and
politics of the revenue service. There is no right answer, a case could be made for about seven or eight of their studio albums

[Ron]

I kind of believe the story that Lennon's ex-manager (or whoever) was pushing around a few months ago, that by "Double Fantasy" Lennon was a completely different man, and that he was even ashamed of some of the things he'd done when he was younger (some of the political stuff).   

I think he spent his entire life searching for his identity.  When I think of him though, I always think of the hippie, anti-war Lennon, which is pretty noble I suppose.  He essentially pulled that off so well, that he sacrificed his own identity for that 'movement'.  I never saw him as a hypocrite for his positions, either, which is RARE.  Most of our modern war protesters have a problem with a war depending on who started it.  Lennon was simple against all war.  I can admire that. 

I think by Double Fantasy, however, he had gotten to a different place in his life, had matured a little bit and was rethinking his previous positions on anything and everything.

Personally I can't listen to Double Fantasy much at all, it's not the John Lennon I prefer.  My John Lennon has a little more teeth

[vintagemusic]

I kind of believe the story that Lennon's ex-manager (or whoever) was pushing around a few months ago, that by "Double Fantasy" Lennon was a completely different man, and that he was even ashamed of some of the things he'd done when he was younger (some of the political stuff).   

I think he spent his entire life searching for his identity.  When I think of him though, I always think of the hippie, anti-war Lennon, which is pretty noble I suppose.  He essentially pulled that off so well, that he sacrificed his own identity for that 'movement'.  I never saw him as a hypocrite for his positions, either, which is RARE.  Most of our modern war protesters have a problem with a war depending on who started it.  Lennon was simple against all war.  I can admire that. 

I think by Double Fantasy, however, he had gotten to a different place in his life, had matured a little bit and was rethinking his previous positions on anything and everything.

Personally I can't listen to Double Fantasy much at all, it's not the John Lennon I prefer.  My John Lennon has a little more teeth


That's fascinating how you put that Ron, I don't know who you mean by his ex manager guy, but the way you surmise he was ashamed of
his earlier, sitting in a paper bag talking to the press, or posing nude frontally for the avante gard sound effects album, or getting so involved
with the American radical left, fascinating idea.


Double Fantasy may not have much "teeth" as you aptly put it, except for I'm losing you, which is a little watered down with the slick production
But Double Fantasy allows us to see Lennon the pop craftsman, like we hadn't seen him since 64-65. His lyrics weren;t as interesting to me as
his   65 lyrics, the mystery of Norwegian Wood or What is a Day Tripper? but melodically, Woman, and the classic Single Starting Over, and beautiful Boy
show us the craftsman who wrote, If I fell, Norwegian Wood and Girl. I don;t find listening to him speak about his day with Yoko quite as fascinating
as the mystery of Girl (1965) but I think it was the first time since then, that he returned to that type of crafted hit style writing, so you prefer Plastic Ono
Band or the White album, ok great, I might too, but I do love his Rubber Soul period, and there are shades of that. But though Douglas was a decent producer
they didint get the understated perfect Harrison style guitars, or McCartney's harmonies, or George Martin's frugal 4 track production style, but It was clever
of Lennon to create a whole album around the semi fictional John and Yoko domestic myth, and do that early tunesmith thing. Who knows what he might have
done next, perhaps a return to psychadelia, with some new Strawberry Fields or Dear Prudence type tunes, though I doubt it, Judging from the demos, I think
he had another good album to go , its tragic we can never hear the Boulvard of Broken Dreams, that Douglas says was superb. He was just getting warmed up
He had covered the domestic family life thing, he needed a new subject..

Revolver Baroque to India, to Motown, most diverse album, but without some of the Pepper pomp, and incredibly done on a four track OH MY GOD
So was Pepper, but the part they leave out, was it was more like about three or four four tracks! When they remix these albums, and they still
have the pre bounce down reels, so instead of a four channel mix, these later albums like Pepper will probably have like 12-15 channels to mix
its gonna be rad, we may change our minds when we hear Pepper and the White album remixed. Revolver, I"m not sure how many additional
pre bounced multitrack reels there are, to make bigger mixes

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Great points guys.

I suppose though that I still feel I can reconcile Double Fantasy with what he said about "production bullshit" elsewhere. I think that Lennon mostly throughout his whole career still wanted records that sounded good and felt right. I remember reading an interview dating to the mid-70s where he critiqued Blood on The Tracks because of its production and suggested that he could make Dylan albums sound better with stronger production. What one thinks about that is another matter!

I think his criticisms of McCartney's first album in particular came down mostly to its production both because Lennon had his own particular taste about production and because he was surprised that the man who made him work endlessly in the studio produced something that sounded so dashed off.

What I think he had a problem with was, say, the studio trickery of Pepper and the over-instrumentation on both Pepper and Abbey Road. Even upon release of Imagine, he talked about how he saw the necessity of "sugar-coating" the songs to make it easier for the listener. Double Fantasy may be slick but it's also fairly simple. Despite the general slickness of the tunes and the strong musicianship, it's still a straight up 14-track record of mostly pop (or, from Yoko, pop-art) songs.

I also don't see much of Lennon being "ashamed" of anything he had done. Even in his final interviews he was still espousing pretty much the same political position from the 69-72 period. Nevertheless, what he had done was, like many guys who were in their 20s in the 60s, settled down. An album like Double Fantasy, for example, really appealed to my father. It was released the same year that I was born and I think that Lennon captured the way a lot of people who grew up in the 60s were actually feeling in 1980. While I might say that the songs were not necessarily as strong as mid-60s Lennon, I still nevertheless think that the album is proof that he was still capable of very effectively capturing the general feeling of his age group in song, in my opinion, better than any other person of his era. There were lots of guys whose main motivation was singing "Give Peace A Chance" in 1969, who, eleven years later, would be just as motivated to sing "Beautiful Boy" to their child. That, I think, was Lennon's real profound skill as a songwriter.

[hypehat]

All of John Lennon's solo albums are slickly produced though, so I don't get the distinction. Plastic Ono Band may not have overdubs, but it is certainly not lo-fi and is immaculately arranged and thought out, unlike the majority of McCartney I for instance. And the guy carried on using Phil Spector, the most obvious record producer ever, and then produced albums full of big LA session arrangements until Walls And Bridges. Viewed that way, Double Fantasy isn't dramatically different from his solo career.


Also, just to lay some truth on you, Yoko Ono is a great songwriter and noise musician, and the moronic pop culture trope that she broke up The Beatles doesn't mean you can dismiss the entirety of her work. Every Man Has a Woman Who Loves Him, Kiss Kiss Kiss, I'm Moving On, Yes I'm Your Angel (hey, if Paul can do it).... great songs, and certainly as good as anything John was writing for that record. Also, Walking On Thin Ice, Nobody Sees Me Like You Do, her Plastic Ono Band album..... 'Nuff Said.

[Ron]

I kind of believe the story that Lennon's ex-manager (or whoever) was pushing around a few months ago, that by "Double Fantasy" Lennon was a completely different man, and that he was even ashamed of some of the things he'd done when he was younger (some of the political stuff).   

I think he spent his entire life searching for his identity.  When I think of him though, I always think of the hippie, anti-war Lennon, which is pretty noble I suppose.  He essentially pulled that off so well, that he sacrificed his own identity for that 'movement'.  I never saw him as a hypocrite for his positions, either, which is RARE.  Most of our modern war protesters have a problem with a war depending on who started it.  Lennon was simple against all war.  I can admire that. 

I think by Double Fantasy, however, he had gotten to a different place in his life, had matured a little bit and was rethinking his previous positions on anything and everything.

Personally I can't listen to Double Fantasy much at all, it's not the John Lennon I prefer.  My John Lennon has a little more teeth


That's fascinating how you put that Ron, I don't know who you mean by his ex manager guy, but the way you surmise he was ashamed of
his earlier, sitting in a paper bag talking to the press, or posing nude frontally for the avante gard sound effects album, or getting so involved
with the American radical left, fascinating idea.


Double Fantasy may not have much "teeth" as you aptly put it, except for I'm losing you, which is a little watered down with the slick production
But Double Fantasy allows us to see Lennon the pop craftsman, like we hadn't seen him since 64-65. His lyrics weren;t as interesting to me as
his   65 lyrics, the mystery of Norwegian Wood or What is a Day Tripper? but melodically, Woman, and the classic Single Starting Over, and beautiful Boy
show us the craftsman who wrote, If I fell, Norwegian Wood and Girl. I don;t find listening to him speak about his day with Yoko quite as fascinating
as the mystery of Girl (1965) but I think it was the first time since then, that he returned to that type of crafted hit style writing, so you prefer Plastic Ono
Band or the White album, ok great, I might too, but I do love his Rubber Soul period, and there are shades of that. But though Douglas was a decent producer
they didint get the understated perfect Harrison style guitars, or McCartney's harmonies, or George Martin's frugal 4 track production style, but It was clever
of Lennon to create a whole album around the semi fictional John and Yoko domestic myth, and do that early tunesmith thing. Who knows what he might have
done next, perhaps a return to psychadelia, with some new Strawberry Fields or Dear Prudence type tunes, though I doubt it, Judging from the demos, I think
he had another good album to go , its tragic we can never hear the Boulvard of Broken Dreams, that Douglas says was superb. He was just getting warmed up
He had covered the domestic family life thing, he needed a new subject..

Revolver Baroque to India, to Motown, most diverse album, but without some of the Pepper pomp, and incredibly done on a four track OH MY GOD
So was Pepper, but the part they leave out, was it was more like about three or four four tracks! When they remix these albums, and they still
have the pre bounce down reels, so instead of a four channel mix, these later albums like Pepper will probably have like 12-15 channels to mix
its gonna be rad, we may change our minds when we hear Pepper and the White album remixed. Revolver, I"m not sure how many additional
pre bounced multitrack reels there are, to make bigger mixes

Lets see, I'll look up the tracklist to make sure I'm not overlooking anything:

I feel guys like him have long careers full of lots of albums; I definately don't see Double Fantasy as a high point, just like I don't see, oh... "McCartney II" as a high point for Paul.  Sure there's enjoyable things on there, but it pales in comparison to some of the other stuff he's done... It's the problem that songwriters of this caliber always have, their latest music will always be compared to their greatest, which isnt' really fair, but it is what it is. 

I also think it's not really fair to judge Lennon by just this one album, he certainly didn't think he was going away, and I doubt he would consider it his best or anything, so I don't want to be too judgemental about it, but it's just not all that to me.  "Just Like Starting Over" and "Watching the Wheels" of course are great, and "Beautiful Boy" and "Woman" are both great songs too, but it's all so milky white.  The first time I heard that filthy version of "Just Like Starting Over" I thought "YEAH! He hadn't completely changed!". 

You're right, it's a return to his pop songwriting style, and that's great, but will this even come close to touching "In My Life" ?  Or "Ticket To Ride" ?  Or "Help" , or even "I'm a Loser" ?  It's not even recognizably by the same songwriter in my opinion.... even the vocals don't hold up.  There's nothing wrong with the songs, or the vocals, but they're not even on the same level as his great stuff. 

Again, though, this was just a period in his life, but I feel most of the music was kind of drab and even a bit boring.  Out of the bunch, I might point to "Woman" as being the best written, and that's saying something. 

[Ron]

Also, just to lay some truth on you, Yoko Ono is a great songwriter and noise musician, and the moronic pop culture trope that she broke up The Beatles doesn't mean you can dismiss the entirety of her work. Every Man Has a Woman Who Loves Him, Kiss Kiss Kiss, I'm Moving On, Yes I'm Your Angel (hey, if Paul can do it).... great songs, and certainly as good as anything John was writing for that record. Also, Walking On Thin Ice, Nobody Sees Me Like You Do, her Plastic Ono Band album..... 'Nuff Said.

Yoko may be a great songwriter... but I wouldn't know, because her performance skills are so god-awful that it's impossible to suffer through any of her songs enough to judge whether it has any merit.  She would have been much better served letting her ego fall away and write the songs for John to sing, instead of her.

With that said though, I mean she can do whatever she wants, I know she has her fans and I doubt she cares if people like me who prefer music that's soothing to the ear like her or not.

I don't thik she broke up the Beatles, and I don't have any problems with her, I just havent' heard 1 song she ever wrote that I could make it all the way through. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

You're right, it's a return to his pop songwriting style, and that's great, but will this even come close to touching "In My Life" ?  Or "Ticket To Ride" ?  Or "Help" , or even "I'm a Loser" ?  It's not even recognizably by the same songwriter in my opinion.... even the vocals don't hold up.  There's nothing wrong with the songs, or the vocals, but they're not even on the same level as his great stuff. 

I think, at least, the line "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" is as apt and eloquently put as anything on the songs you mention. But does the song itself hold up as well? Probably not. Still good though.

And McCartney II is a gem.

[Ron]

McCartney II may have been a bad example, it was just a album that popped in my head, but even then: better than his earlier work?  Hell no.  I liked all the technoish stuff on that album, though, wasn't the 'cool' version fo Comin' Up on that one?


HEY! by the way! Am I the only one that was blown away the first time I heard "Waterfalls", because TLC obviously ripped the entire song off?  Or is that just a phrase that I'm not familiar with?  The chorus is almost identical, I"m shocked that Paul never sued TLC over that.  Or was there a sample there that I'm not aware of? 

[MBE]

I just can't get into the US Rubber Soul. Without Nowhere Man, Rubber Soul just can't be Rubber Soul.

I guess you just have to be an old head. At the time, no U.S. citizen had any idea that Capitol futzed with the orignal tracking. We got those on Yesterday... and Today. I never heard the original until I bought the original CD version back in 1989-1990 or so.

I like both but knew about the British ones way before CD because I had some good discography books. I voted for it as either version is my favorite Beatles record.