What studio album is the third pillar?

[rab2591]

Explain.

[Newguy562]

Can we use another example besides U2?

Radiohead?

The Bends - Today (The beginning of their sound.)
Ok Computer - Pet Sounds (Their peak)
Kid A - Smile (Most creative album they released.)

The Kinks?

Something Else - Today
The Village Green Preservation Society - Pet Sounds
Arthur - Smile (Hit or Miss)

Michael Jackson?

Off The Wall - Today
Thriller - Pet Sounds
Bad - Smile (Hit or Miss)

Pink Floyd?

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn - Today
The Dark Side of the Moon - Pet  Sounds
The Wall - Smile

The Who?

Tommy - Today
Who's Next - Pet Sounds
Quadrophenia - Smile


WOW! Those were amazing examples

Those are terrible examples. especially the Floyd one.

why?

[Newguy562]

Newguy, I have agree with Aegir. Hardly any of those make any sense. If anything, Kid A is Radiohead's Pet Sounds, and they haven't had a "Smile" yet. The Kinks I'll agree with.. Michael Jackson... shouldn't even be compared. Pink Floyd really shouldn't be either. And as for The Who, I think you're an album behind on each. It should be 'Sell Out' matched up with 'Today', 'Tommy' matched up with Pet Sounds (tho this is of course a loose interpretation), and Who's Next/Lifehouse matched up with Smiley Smile/Smile

how is kid a pet sounds? lol...why shouldnt mj be compared?..why not pink floyd?...and i do agree with you for the who

[Paulos]

Newguy, I have agree with Aegir. Hardly any of those make any sense. If anything, Kid A is Radiohead's Pet Sounds, and they haven't had a "Smile" yet. The Kinks I'll agree with.. Michael Jackson... shouldn't even be compared. Pink Floyd really shouldn't be either. And as for The Who, I think you're an album behind on each. It should be 'Sell Out' matched up with 'Today', 'Tommy' matched up with Pet Sounds (tho this is of course a loose interpretation), and Who's Next/Lifehouse matched up with Smiley Smile/Smile

how is kid a pet sounds? lol...why shouldnt mj be compared?..why not pink floyd?...and i do agree with you for the who

Is quite simple - Kid A could be considered Radiohead's Pet Sounds as it sounded radically different to what they had done before...like Pet Sounds.

[MyGlove]

Exactly Paulos. And OK Computer was still the warm up in my opinion, just like Today is now considered the warm up for Pet Sounds. As for MJ and Pink Floyd, the albums that you compared are way too different. Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Today? Dark Side and Pet Sounds, i'll give you that, because of their acclaim, but the Wall and Smile are nothing alike. I can't even make up a reason to try to compare those. I'll stop being hard on you though haha we pretty much love the same music i think, so and it was at least an interesting sidenote 

[Arturo Bandini]

Personal tastes aside I think fans and critics easily rate Today!, Pet Sounds, and Sunflower has the three best Beach Boys albums.  Any fan of any band depending mood or day could a have a favorite at that point in time which could change regularly.  Like as of today the Beach Boys albums I have in heavy rotation are All Summer Long, Holland, 15 Big Ones, Pacific Ocean Blue/Bambu (I Know its a Denny album) Keepin the Summer Alive, and BB85.   None of those are probably better than their "3 Pillar albums"

And looking back it is probably their 3 best albums w/ no filler or turds on the tracklisting.  Dodging these filler/turd "songs"  seems to be almost a Beach Boys fan art form especially younger fans like myself who have the leisure of going back to the discography and deleting the turds/filler (Bless You iTunes).

this give me an idea for a thread..................

[Newguy562]

Exactly Paulos. And OK Computer was still the warm up in my opinion, just like Today is now considered the warm up for Pet Sounds. As for MJ and Pink Floyd, the albums that you compared are way too different. Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Today? Dark Side and Pet Sounds, i'll give you that, because of their acclaim, but the Wall and Smile are nothing alike. I can't even make up a reason to try to compare those. I'll stop being hard on you though haha we pretty much love the same music i think, so and it was at least an interesting sidenote 

off the wall was building up his style and hype just like today
thriller is the magnum opus just like pet sounds
bad is a brand new sound that makes you wanna dance and moonwalk and so is smile 

hey good music is good music its great to see people on here that listen to the same music as myself.

[runnersdialzero]

...

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Explain.

Explain why U2 are crap?

[Nicko1234]

Personal tastes aside I think fans and critics easily rate Today!, Pet Sounds, and Sunflower has the three best Beach Boys albums.

Generally speaking that's probably so. But Surf's Up and Holland do get quite a few mentions too.

I think that the critics in the U.K. and U.S. seem to have slightly opinions though (could be wrong here).

I've seen career retrospectives in the U.K. which state that the albums from Pet Sounds through to Holland are all worth listening to and Today but none of the others. Some American critics seem to look on the early albums with more kindness.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

It seriously bugs me when the early albums get written off. Yes, Surfin' Safari is far from great (although they were basically kids when they made it don't forget...) and Surfin' USA has too many instrumentals (although the non-instrumentals are all great), aside from that i'd say they're all terrific albums.

Surfer Girl - aside from the throwaway Surfers Stomp, from start to finish a great album, with a solid 3 or 4 outright classics

Little Deuce Coupe - all of the new material is at the very least pleasant, and often fantastic (Custom Machine, Spirit of America)

Shut Down Vol 2 - aside from some occasional obvious filler, an album most bands would kill for: Fun Fun Fun, Dont Worry Baby, In The Parkin Lot, The Warmth Of The Sun, Why Do Fools..., Keep An Eye On Summer. And Carl's songwriting debut rocks!

All Summer Long - John Stebbins is right: one of their best!

The problem for the BB's is that their very best material is SO good that everything else gets overlooked!

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Apologises, I meant JON Stebbins. And i've got your (fantastic) book directly in front of me on my bookshelf as i type as well... Poor show

[Nicko1234]

I think one issue that many people have is that when the band made filler it was so blatantly obviously filler. All of those albums suffer from it.

Another problem is that many of the best songs have been heard so many times on the greatest hits compilations meaning that some people (unfairly perhaps) wouldn't be particularly bowled over by them on the studio albums.

[Arturo Bandini]

Personal tastes aside I think fans and critics easily rate Today!, Pet Sounds, and Sunflower has the three best Beach Boys albums.

Generally speaking that's probably so. But Surf's Up and Holland do get quite a few mentions too.

I think that the critics in the U.K. and U.S. seem to have slightly opinions though (could be wrong here).

I've seen career retrospectives in the U.K. which state that the albums from Pet Sounds through to Holland are all worth listening to and Today but none of the others. Some American critics seem to look on the early albums with more kindness.

Nicko I agree with your assesment from the UK US perspective bc from 67-74 the Beach Boys sales was mediocore to poor in the US.  While during that time the BBoys sales in the UK remained quite strong.  So UK retrospective might lean more towards these years than a US one.

Dont get me wrong I love Surfs Up and Holland its just the musical depth and the strength of the track are better on Today! Pet Sounds and Sunflower.  Take away Bull Sessions w/ Big Daddy and a medicore 'At My Window' you have three perfect albums that are orginal, groundbreaking, and influential in their own ways. 

I think Surfs Up and Holland fall a bit short.  'Take a Load off Your Feet' and 'Student Demonstration Time' are pretty below average tracks.  Though the last half of Surfs Up is down right amazing and sandwich in a decent 'Lookin At Tommorow' song (Man I wish they woulda let Dennis throw in a couple tracks like '4th of July' and 'Carry me Home' and Surfs Up possibly surpasses Sunflower and Today!)  Holland is pretty solid throughout not really a bad track on it eventhough 'Beaks of Eagles' comes close.  It is just Hollands highs never reach the highs of the '3pillar albums' or consistenly stay there.  I have to stop now or I am going to type I novel...haha

[Nicko1234]

I think Surfs Up and Holland fall a bit short.  'Take a Load off Your Feet' and 'Student Demonstration Time' are pretty below average tracks.  Though the last half of Surfs Up is down right amazing and sandwich in a decent 'Lookin At Tommorow' song (Man I wish they woulda let Dennis throw in a couple tracks like '4th of July' and 'Carry me Home' and Surfs Up possibly surpasses Sunflower and Today!)  Holland is pretty solid throughout not really a bad track on it eventhough 'Beaks of Eagles' comes close.  It is just Hollands highs never reach the highs of the '3pillar albums' or consistenly stay there.  I have to stop now or I am going to type I novel...haha

Dennis should have let himself throw in a couple of songs. Foolish and childish to cut them.

He also should have stuck around to finish the vocal to Sail On Sailor. The song would have been better with him (or Carl) on lead vocals and would have stood a much better chance of becoming a hit. It could have been something for him to sing in concert for years to come.

[hypehat]

It wasn't Dennis' decision to cut himself out of the Surf's Up album, it was Carl's - they had an argument about sequencing, and Carl responded by axing his songs from the album.

Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again and 4th Of July were his two offerings, I believe, although apparently WIBNTLA isn't finished, so I may be talking out of my ass. 

[drbeachboy]

It wasn't Dennis' decision to cut himself out of the Surf's Up album, it was Carl's - they had an argument about sequencing, and Carl responded by axing his songs from the album.

Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again and 4th Of July were his two offerings, I believe, although apparently WIBNTLA isn't finished, so I may be talking out of my ass. 

While you are correct about the argument, I believe Dennis made the decision to pull his songs off of Surf's Up. He wanted his songs to end the album.

[Arturo Bandini]

It seriously bugs me when the early albums get written off. Yes, Surfin' Safari is far from great (although they were basically kids when they made it don't forget...) and Surfin' USA has too many instrumentals (although the non-instrumentals are all great), aside from that i'd say they're all terrific albums.

Surfer Girl - aside from the throwaway Surfers Stomp, from start to finish a great album, with a solid 3 or 4 outright classics

Little Deuce Coupe - all of the new material is at the very least pleasant, and often fantastic (Custom Machine, Spirit of America)

Shut Down Vol 2 - aside from some occasional obvious filler, an album most bands would kill for: Fun Fun Fun, Dont Worry Baby, In The Parkin Lot, The Warmth Of The Sun, Why Do Fools..., Keep An Eye On Summer. And Carl's songwriting debut rocks!

All Summer Long - John Stebbins is right: one of their best!

The problem for the BB's is that their very best material is SO good that everything else gets overlooked!

I think the average music fan dismisses their early work as throwaway surf and car songs.  Which some of it was, but that was only a small percentage of their catalog.  The Beach Boys were working against a record company who wanted to constantly to throw 2 or 3 LP's out a year, so most of their early LP's suffer from being rushed.  Like I mentioned in a previous thread the best way to look at the early LP's is to throw away the "turd" and filler songs then combine the LPs that dropped that year.

But as we all know a lot of their early work was brillant, the LPs just werent consistant from front to back.  I rank the pre Today! albums like so:

All Summer Long
Summer Days (and Summer Nights!!)
[Easily their 2 best early work LPs, Brian slowly crafting a full LP worth of brillant material]

Surfer Girl
Surfin USA
Shut Down Vol 2
[Above average LP's that contain some absolutely brillant songs but suffer considerably from filler tracks such as half assed instrumentals and uninspired covers or poor surfer/car songs]

Surfin Safari
Little Duece Coupe
[For me easily the worst LP's from their early years.  Surfin Safari sounds like a group of overwelmed kids w/ a few good ideas trying to make a quick buck off the surfing craze.  Little Duece Coupe just a collection of their worst and in my opinon format for their songs, about cars!  and cmon for those who like it you cant defend the fact that two songs that appeared on the previous Surfer Girl LP now appear on Little Duece Coupe.  That just epitomizes the laziness and lack of orginality into this "concept" album (Sorry Disney Boy)

[hypehat]

It wasn't Dennis' decision to cut himself out of the Surf's Up album, it was Carl's - they had an argument about sequencing, and Carl responded by axing his songs from the album.

Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again and 4th Of July were his two offerings, I believe, although apparently WIBNTLA isn't finished, so I may be talking out of my ass. 

While you are correct about the argument, I believe Dennis made the decision to pull his songs off of Surf's Up. He wanted his songs to end the album.

Ah ok, thanks for refreshing my memory 

[drbeachboy]

Summer Days... is not a pre-Today album. It was the next album after Today.

[Arturo Bandini]

Summer Days... is not a pre-Today album. It was the next album after Today.

Damn your right thanks for the correction, I also mix that up because Today! the feels like the natural transition into Pet Sounds. 

In reguards to my previous post just scratch Summer Days off, though I do rank it right up their w/ All Summer Long

[Nicko1234]

Surfer Girl
Surfin USA
Shut Down Vol 2
[Above average LP's that contain some absolutely brillant songs but suffer considerably from filler tracks such as half assed instrumentals and uninspired covers or poor surfer/car songs]

Surfin Safari
Little Duece Coupe
[For me easily the worst LP's from their early years.  Surfin Safari sounds like a group of overwelmed kids w/ a few good ideas trying to make a quick buck off the surfing craze.  Little Duece Coupe just a collection of their worst and in my opinon format for their songs, about cars!  and cmon for those who like it you cant defend the fact that two songs that appeared on the previous Surfer Girl LP now appear on Little Duece Coupe.  That just epitomizes the laziness and lack of orginality into this "concept" album (Sorry Disney Boy)

I think that's doing Surfer Girl a disservice. It only contains probably 3 filler songs. Surfin USA and Shut Down Vol 2 have far more imo.

[Arturo Bandini]

Surfer Girl
Surfin USA
Shut Down Vol 2
[Above average LP's that contain some absolutely brillant songs but suffer considerably from filler tracks such as half assed instrumentals and uninspired covers or poor surfer/car songs]

Surfin Safari
Little Duece Coupe
[For me easily the worst LP's from their early years.  Surfin Safari sounds like a group of overwelmed kids w/ a few good ideas trying to make a quick buck off the surfing craze.  Little Duece Coupe just a collection of their worst and in my opinon format for their songs, about cars!  and cmon for those who like it you cant defend the fact that two songs that appeared on the previous Surfer Girl LP now appear on Little Duece Coupe.  That just epitomizes the laziness and lack of orginality into this "concept" album (Sorry Disney Boy)

I think that's doing Surfer Girl a disservice. It only contains probably 3 filler songs. Surfin USA and Shut Down Vol 2 have far more imo.

Definetly rate Surfer Girl higher than Surfin USA and Shut Down, so maybe since I flubbed by putting Summer Days...on there I could elevate Surfer Girl w/ All Summer Long.  Now theres a debate which pre Today! album is best All Summer Long or Surfer Girl?  I couldnt even decide right now

[Paulos]

It seriously bugs me when the early albums get written off. Yes, Surfin' Safari is far from great (although they were basically kids when they made it don't forget...) and Surfin' USA has too many instrumentals (although the non-instrumentals are all great), aside from that i'd say they're all terrific albums.

Surfer Girl - aside from the throwaway Surfers Stomp, from start to finish a great album, with a solid 3 or 4 outright classics

Little Deuce Coupe - all of the new material is at the very least pleasant, and often fantastic (Custom Machine, Spirit of America)

Shut Down Vol 2 - aside from some occasional obvious filler, an album most bands would kill for: Fun Fun Fun, Dont Worry Baby, In The Parkin Lot, The Warmth Of The Sun, Why Do Fools..., Keep An Eye On Summer. And Carl's songwriting debut rocks!

All Summer Long - John Stebbins is right: one of their best!

The problem for the BB's is that their very best material is SO good that everything else gets overlooked!

Um, what copy of Surfer Girl do you have?

[Liamo]

Friends.

I know that a lot of people like Sunflower, I find it beautiful too, but it lacks a certain charm that SMiLE, Pet Sounds, and Friends have. To me Pet Sounds has a deeply depressing and beautiful personality. SMiLE has a quirky baroque personality. Friends has a mature, quirky, beautiful personality.

Sunflower to me is just a mash up of incredible songs. The album has no personality to me. Production-wise it never flowed well to my ears...I love every song on that album, but as a whole it just doesn't flow well, imo.

I agree..Friends for the mood it conveys, the contribution made by the others makes it a real band effort (something Sunflower gets alot of credit for) and for the bravery of putting out an album that went so against the prevailing trends of the day