The Stephen Desper Thread

[petsite]

Hey Stephan, I am sorry to have blundered so badly on my inquiry about CottonFields in duophonic sound. I meant the version recorded by Alan Jardine at Sunset Sound.  From what Alan Boyd now says, the duophonic version could have come from Capitol when it was processed into duophonic for the Stateside release of Sunflower.

I feel like such an ass. Again, sorry for the mix-up.

I had interviewed Brad Elliott for my website PETSITE about 5 years ago about his assembly of the 1983 LP "Rarities" for Capitol.  He had this to say about the tape he found in Capitol's vaults:

BE: The tape inventory sent us to an odd reel stored separately from the mono single masters. When I pulled it out, it was a tape that had three or four different mixes of Cotton Fields -- all the single version, but all slightly different. The first mix on the tape was the one used as the single, while the other mixes included the sound of a child speaking (somewhat like the "Hi" at the beginning of The Trader). I remember there was one mix where the child's voice preceded the beginning of the actual song, and I think there were two mixes where the child's voice was mixed into the song at different points. Since the original single version had never been released on a U.S. album at that time, I chose to go with the mix used on the single. In retrospect, I wish I'd used one of the other mixes, simply because it would have been different.

Always interesting stuff. Again sorry about the confusion.

Bob

[Andrew G. Doe]

Jeff, I seem to recall that other 45s around the end of the decade were still mono mixes, due to demand probably.  I think Friends/Little Bird had single mono mixes done, Do it Again, Bluebirds, perhaps even Breakaway.  So the Cotton Fields 45 would have just been the last 45 that was exclusively mono before the stereo age truly took over.

A side, yes... but the two versions of "Susie C", respectively the B sides to "Add Some Music" & "Child Of Winter" (1970 & 1974, almost 1975) were both mono. I think...

[Andreas]

There are still some issues that I find confusing. All these points were discussed several times now, and I am sorry to bring them up again, but I see conflicting information and I am not sure what is the definitive answer.

No disprespect intended to anyone.

1. Cotton Fields, single version produced by Al. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he mixed the single version in stereo and that the single used a fold-down of that mix. This was a misunderstanding, correct? The single version was mixed at Capitol, only to mono, and without Desper's involvement?

2. Loop De Loop, 1969 version. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he did not mix any version back then and that the song was not finished until 1998. Correct or incorrect?

3. Friends, the song. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he did not do any mono mix of that song, and that the single used a fold-down of his stereo mix. Correct or incorrect?

4. Breakaway. It was suggested by aejitzsche that there was a mono single mix. To the best of my knowledge, this was a stereo single, and no mono mix exists (unless it was folded down in other countries). Correct or incorrect?

5. Bluebirds Over The Mountain. Apparently, there is a true mono single mix. Who mixed that?

6. Susie Cincinnati. Was there a dedicated mono mix?

[Jeff Mason]

Jeff, I seem to recall that other 45s around the end of the decade were still mono mixes, due to demand probably.  I think Friends/Little Bird had single mono mixes done, Do it Again, Bluebirds, perhaps even Breakaway.  So the Cotton Fields 45 would have just been the last 45 that was exclusively mono before the stereo age truly took over.

A side, yes... but the two versions of "Susie C", respectively the B sides to "Add Some Music" & "Child Of Winter" (1970 & 1974, almost 1975) were both mono. I think...

The first version definitely was.  Interesting, and that combined with Stephen's response answers my original question -- Al wanted mono mixes for the extra punch, and that is probably why a stereo mix was never done.  Sounds like Al had Stephen mix it that way on purpose.  Of course, a stereo mix of Susie had to be done for 15BO and that's why we got that one.

Andreas, the original singles mixes were used in GHV2.  Only I Can Hear Music and BreakAway were in stereo.  This means, A side at least (don't know about B sides), Friends and Bluebirds received true mono mixes.  No documentation as to who made the mixes.  As far as Do It Again, Stephen has told that story before anyway. 

[Stephen W. Desper]

There are still some issues that I find confusing. All these points were discussed several times now, and I am sorry to bring them up again, but I see conflicting information and I am not sure what is the definitive answer.

No disprespect intended to anyone.

1. Cotton Fields, single version produced by Al. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he mixed the single version in stereo and that the single used a fold-down of that mix. This was a misunderstanding, correct? The single version was mixed at Capitol, only to mono, and without Desper's involvement? I made a mono folddown of the Al/Brian version for Alan.  He decided to re-do the entire song as a side project on his own.  We were busy in the studio and/or with other stuff.

2. Loop De Loop, 1969 version. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he did not mix any version back then and that the song was not finished until 1998. Correct or incorrect? Incorrect, I guess.  Final mix was not until '98 so the word "any" is not correctly used. Should have said did not mix any final version. There were plenty of mixes. I have the acetates to prove that. But a mix does not become final until it is released or accepted by the record company. However there were mixes approved by Alan -- then disapproved the next day.  With Alan you never get a definite answer as the guy just cannot make up his mind.

3. Friends, the song. Mr. Desper has written on the old thread that he did not do any mono mix of that song, and that the single used a fold-down of his stereo mix. Correct or incorrect?  I mixed in stereo. Jimmy Lockart could have pulled a single mono mix.  I don't remember.

4. Breakaway. It was suggested by aejitzsche that there was a mono single mix. To the best of my knowledge, this was a stereo single, and no mono mix exists (unless it was folded down in other countries). Correct or incorrect?  I mixed in stereo, but Brian has mixed versions in mono. Don't know what is in the vault.

5. Bluebirds Over The Mountain. Apparently, there is a true mono single mix. Who mixed that?  I can't remember if I did or not. Everything was mixed at one time in stereo. I could have pulled a mono mix. I doubt anyone else would since the multi-tracks were under my care, but it was a long time ago.    

6. Susie Cincinnati. Was there a dedicated mono mix? I can't remember if I did or not.  Everything was mixed at one time in stereo.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Jeff, I seem to recall that other 45s around the end of the decade were still mono mixes, due to demand probably.  I think Friends/Little Bird had single mono mixes done, Do it Again, Bluebirds, perhaps even Breakaway.  So the Cotton Fields 45 would have just been the last 45 that was exclusively mono before the stereo age truly took over.

A side, yes... but the two versions of "Susie C", respectively the B sides to "Add Some Music" & "Child Of Winter" (1970 & 1974, almost 1975) were both mono. I think...

The first version definitely was.  Interesting, and that combined with Stephen's response answers my original question -- Al wanted mono mixes for the extra punch, and that is probably why a stereo mix was never done.  Sounds like Al had Stephen mix it that way on purpose. At the time, Alan was most familiar with mono production. Of course, a stereo mix of Susie had to be done for 15BO and that's why we got that one.  Susie was recorded for stereo and mixed in stereo. If a mono mix exists it is undoubedly a folddown.

Andreas, the original singles mixes were used in GHV2.  Only I Can Hear Music and BreakAway were in stereo.  This means, A side at least (don't know about B sides), Friends and Bluebirds received true mono mixes.  No documentation as to who made the mixes.  As far as Do It Again, Stephen has told that story before anyway.  Jimmy Lockart did mono mixes for Brian all the time.  I did stereo mixes as did he.  The finals were in stereo. Friends' songs were not recorded with stereo in mind but could be mixed that way. Starting with 20/20 the production values all had stereo in mind as the end product.  

~swd

[Andreas]

Thank you. That clears most things up. So we don't really know if the Friends single received a dedicated mix or just a mono fold-down.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Steve, Mr. Alan Boyd posted the tracksheets for the two 8-track tapes that recorded "All I Wanna Do" on his thread:

1st generation
All I Wanna Do

1 - left drums
2 - guitar
3 - Right drums
4 - piano
5 - bass
6 - Roxi
7 - Doubled Roxi
8 - Out of Tune Roxi

2nd generation ?
1 - L Stereo
2 - Fuzz
3 - R stereo
4 - Mike
5 - L OD stereo
6 - Double BG (gtar - trump - Ztar and Ztar OD crossed off)
7 - Right OD stereo
8 - Du Duits


Do you know what a "Roxi" is?  I really think it's a pretty amazing mix considering it's from 8-track.  I imagine the mixdown would have been quite involved.

[Jeff Mason]

Thank you. That clears most things up. So we don't really know if the Friends single received a dedicated mix or just a mono fold-down.

I gave it a listen today -- it doesn't sound like a folddown. But you are right, we are in the dark without documentation.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

From AGD's esteemed "Bellagio" site:

The mono mix - a true mono mix, not collapsed stereo - of the "Friends" single is available on 20 More Good Vibrations - The Greatest Hits Volume 2.
 

[Bicyclerider]

Susie Cincinatti is a dedicated mono mix - I have it on the flip of Add Some Music and the sound effects come in and out at different parts of the song.

Friends and Little Bird received mono mixes - the mixing session tapes are on the boot Goodbye Surfing Hello God.

[c-man]

Do you know what a "Roxi" is? 

"Roxi", I would imagine, is the RMI Rock-si-chord electronic keyboard. 
Check out this website, and go to the link "The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly":

http://www.alphabeck.co.uk/hoep/epianos.html

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

That would make a lot of sense, particularly as the RMI is labeled as such on the 'Til I Die tracksheet.  I was trying to think of phonetic homonyms, but couldn't. 

OK, so that brings up another question:  Is "Piano" as listed on the tracksheet an acoustic piano?

Also, "Ztar"?

[c-man]

Also, "Ztar"?

I've always been intrigued by the twangy, electric (or "coral") sitar sound in the verses of that song, so my guess is it is whatever produced that sound. 

BTW, this song/production is probably the one "unknown" BBs track I would play to someone who only knows the hits.  One of their best recordings ever, in my opinion.

C-Man

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I've always been intrigued by the twangy, electric (or "coral") sitar sound in the verses of that song, so my guess is it is whatever produced that sound.

Then what sound is represented by track two on gen one, "guitar"?

One of their best recordings ever, in my opinion.

Absolutely.  You did good, Steve.

[Jonas]

We've had this discussion on the board a lot and I dont wanna bring it up again and the search on here kinda sucks. So, that being said, who did the falsetto parts for 'Be Here In the Mornin'?

Thanks :X

[Jeff Mason]

I've always been intrigued by the twangy, electric (or "coral") sitar sound in the verses of that song, so my guess is it is whatever produced that sound.

Then what sound is represented by track two on gen one, "guitar"?

One of their best recordings ever, in my opinion.

Absolutely.  You did good, Steve.

Agree with that, esp with the Moog wash.  As far as that sound goes, it sounds like a processed Carl guitar lead to me -- that is Carl's style.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

who did the falsetto parts for 'Be Here In the Mornin'?

Al.

[Mitchell]

Just a random question that I don't recall seeing answered before:

Who played the Jew's harp on Cotton Fields (Single Version)? Also, do you have any tips for avoiding the 'clinking' when recording a Jew's harp (some clinking is heard in Cotton Fields, unfortunately)?

This got lost in the shuffle...

[Jonas]

who did the falsetto parts for 'Be Here In the Mornin'?

Al.

You know, I sent you a PM asking that cos I figured you'd remember, but your inbox is full

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think PMs are glitched out right now.  Nobody's seem to work.

[Jeff Mason]

Maybe Charles disabled them...?

[Bicyclerider]

Al did the falsetto parts but they were speeded up - that's not his natural falsetto.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Maybe Charles disabled them...?

Should be working now.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Al did the falsetto parts but they were speeded up - that's not his natural falsetto.

Yeah it is.  See Loop De Loop, et al.  It's not even that high.  Just a comfortable tessitura.  Al sang just as high in mixed voice on Cotton Fields.