The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
683018
Posts in
27753
Topics by
4096
Members - Latest Member:
MrSunshine
July 15, 2025, 05:49:17 PM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General On Topic Discussions
|
Brian's Most Complex Composition?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
Author
Topic: Brian's Most Complex Composition? (Read 10277 times)
harrisonjon
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 423
Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
on:
November 11, 2011, 07:45:18 AM »
Surf's Up? Cabinessence?
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4940
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #1 on:
November 11, 2011, 07:49:33 AM »
I haven't ever investigated it myself, but I have heard Solar System ranks among Brian's most complex songs.
Logged
adam78
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 94
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #2 on:
November 11, 2011, 07:54:54 AM »
First answer off the top off my head....Til I Die...though i reserve the right to change. The progression of the chords used is just stellar! No ordinary songwriter could have done what he did on this song.
Logged
The Heartical Don
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4761
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #3 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:10:27 AM »
As a whole, for me it's Surf's Up. It helps a lot that it's my favourite pop song of all.
Logged
80% Of Success Is Showing Up
Dr. Tim
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 383
"Would you put a loud count on it for us please?"
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #4 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:13:10 AM »
This Whole World would qualify along with Surf's Up and Til I Die - all of them change keys every few measures. This Whole World never resolves; Surf's Up does at the end of each section (and, like Cabinessence, concludes with an unresolved chord on BWPS, a good move to set up the next movement). Til I Die only resolves at the repeated ride-out. More recently there's Midnight's Another Day. Granted this is a Brian trademark, insofar as Brian shoehorns "feels" and wildly different sections together and makes them fit. Compare favorably with Dennis's POB songs: he too would skitter off in different directions as the muse took him, but his songs came to a definite ending, or came back to their beginning (like River Song).
Logged
Hey kids! Remember:
mono mixes suck donkey dick
hypehat
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 6311
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #5 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:18:26 AM »
'Til I Die is wonderful, yeah. On the version I've learnt how to play, the chords are so simple and he makes the same changes a few times, but if you didn't know you'd swear he was flying all over the place. No-one could do that. Also has the fantastic BW trademark of a half-step keychange, from the last chord of the verse to the first chord. I love that stuff!
Wonderful is close, or Child Is The Father Of The Man - these complex songs always bat down the insane stuff with rather simple bits, which of course makes them even more fun to play. Something like Look springs to mind - the verses are intricate things with diminished chords and odd bass voicings all over the shop and then the chorus is just I-V-I.
Solar System is pretty out there, you're right.
This Whole World goes all over the damn shop - I think it uses nearly every major/minor chord? And you wouldn't know it to listen....
I'll have to sit at a piano tonight and play this stuff again! I love playing BW.
Logged
Quote from: ontor pertawst on October 06, 2012, 06:05:25 PM
All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on May 15, 2012, 12:33:42 PM
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?
Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
D Cunningham
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 136
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #6 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:26:16 AM »
A great topic. The definition of "complex" is a key. Deviation from I-IV-V-I is one thing. Of course,
then there are when to do that, how to do that, and even when not to. There lies the genius. Brian
knows...and he maintains and processes his ur-sound. And his ur-sound is worthy of a nation
and a century.
I think of poetry, where lots of amateurs figure they will be modern or post modern or post post
modern (whatever) simply by avoiding regular meter and rhyme. Snore.
Then there is Wallace Stevens.
Logged
cablegeddon
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 480
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #7 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:31:52 AM »
To me as far as notes, melodies and chords goes, it's Wonderful because the song constantly changes key.
Logged
Brian Wilson fan since august 2011
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #8 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:33:01 AM »
Depends what you mean
The most complex chords and arrangements are on the Pet Sounds album
The most complex structures are on the Friends, SMiLE ( only what was finished) and Smiley Smile albums.
As for complex melodies, they're all over the place, figuratively, literally and chronologically.
Personally I think structure is the most important aspect of music, as it is the container for everything, melody, harmony, counterpoint and rhythm. Also it works down on the level of these "lesser" aspects. Without structure, a melody is just random notes, rhythm just unconnected noises.
Structure is king, even the atonalists had to have some form of structure.
So though the chords and arrangements on Pet Sounds are very complex, the song structures themselves are quite basic. And while the structure of the songs on Friends are much more complex, (just listen to "When A Man Needs A Woman") the harmonic depth and the arrangements are (slightly) less adventurous than on PS.
Tough one, I think you'd need a doctorate in composition to answer this, and it would probably take a while.
«
Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 08:38:20 AM by Iron Horse-Apples
»
Logged
D Cunningham
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 136
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #9 on:
November 11, 2011, 08:58:02 AM »
Is Lee D. still around...
There was that nice video that Billy Hinsche created. He spoke about that single deviation in California Girls...where
Brian did something surprising and great...in the chords. I'm forgetting it now. A defining moment? So modest.
Logged
exposedbrain
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 79
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #10 on:
November 11, 2011, 09:08:52 AM »
Don't Back Down has some pretty wacky key changes
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4940
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #11 on:
November 11, 2011, 09:17:38 AM »
I love that Good Vibrations starts in Eb minor, goes into Gb major and steps up to Bb major and lands into F major and finally ends in Ab major. How awesome is that?
Logged
joshferrell
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1634
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #12 on:
November 11, 2011, 10:02:49 AM »
to me that's a hard question because he (and Dennis) did ALOT of complex songs..I do like the part of "IJWMFTT" when the music historian is talking about "warmth of the sun"and he explains the complexity of it..I htought that was pretty cool,maybe soomeone should do a whole "documentary" dvd dissecting Brians music,,I would buy that..
Logged
Mikie
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 5887
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #13 on:
November 11, 2011, 10:17:35 AM »
When I first saw the chords to Surf's Up, I figured that was it. Suspended and Diminished chords and all.........This Whole World too with the key change. Warmth Of The Sun is anudder one.
«
Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:22:05 AM by Mikie
»
Logged
I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
bossaroo
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1643
...let's be friends...
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #14 on:
November 11, 2011, 10:22:17 AM »
so hard to choose. Most of Brian's tunes have a degree of complexity as he'd already figured out things like The Four Freshmen by the time he started writing.
it's a mistake to focus just on Pet Sounds and SMiLE when there's earlier stuff like Warmth of the Sun and Girls on the Beach, to Back of My Mind and Let Him Run Wild, and later things like Still I Dream of It and Midnight's Another Day.
there's also a lot to be said for writing a complex song that flows so well it doesn't really
sound
complex. Great pop records like California Girls and I Get Around are deceptively complex. again there's so many to choose from.
Brian also wrote in flat keys a LOT, which seems more complex to me for some reason. Maybe because I'm a guitar player.
some are definitely harder and more involved to play than others. most will keep you on your toes though
Logged
shelter
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2201
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #15 on:
November 11, 2011, 11:47:49 AM »
I choose 'God Only Knows', because there's something mingblowlingly beautiful happing in literally every single second of that song. Just try to keep that up for 171 seconds straight, that's gotta be pretty darn difficult. It sure hasn't been done by anyone else before or since.
Logged
D409
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 359
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #16 on:
November 11, 2011, 11:52:20 AM »
Funky Pretty is quite complicated compositionally too, especially the multiple parts in the tag to fadeout.
Logged
adamghost
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2116
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #17 on:
November 11, 2011, 12:29:08 PM »
Harmonically, my uninformed vote would be for "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times." I say uninformed because I've never learned it myself, but I have learned, by ear, some pretty complex Beach Boys songs. Having said that, I once had a gander at the chords, being played and scored, and they scared the crap out of me.
Logged
Runaways
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2008
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #18 on:
November 11, 2011, 12:34:17 PM »
just from listening, i say surf's up. that melody is nuts
Logged
harrisonjon
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 423
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #19 on:
November 11, 2011, 12:56:14 PM »
"I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" is a great call. Even the tracking session without the vocal is other-worldly, then the vocal has some incredible modulation, like when he sings "happen again", or in the opening line where he doesn't seem to take a breath (very tricky meter).
And the "sometimes I feel very sad" section that was separated out on the box set. Incredible.
Logged
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2014
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #20 on:
November 11, 2011, 02:05:46 PM »
Quote from: bossaroo on November 11, 2011, 10:22:17 AM
there's also a lot to be said for writing a complex song that flows so well it doesn't really
sound
complex. Great pop records like California Girls and I Get Around are deceptively complex. again there's so many to choose from.
Well said. I've always considered that to be one of the many things that separates Brian from the pack - he makes the complex sound simple and easy. It never sounds forced - he isn't trying to be complex just for complexity's sake, which I think is something that a lot of artists try to do but often fail at. It wasn't as if he was sitting down saying "okay, I've got to put 3 cool key changes in this song, then figure out how to weave a melody around them." He just wrote from his heart, and luckily for us, the end result was songs like "Surf's Up," "Wonderful," etc.
Logged
homeontherange
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 244
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #21 on:
November 11, 2011, 02:13:14 PM »
The whole Pet sounds album is very complex. And many of the smile songs like surf's up and wonderful. This whole world is a bit over-rated when it comes to this I think. Just some basic key changes with regular chords. No complex harmonies or inversions, which pet sounds and smile are filled with.
Logged
SurfRiderHawaii
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2573
Add Some Music to your day!
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #22 on:
November 11, 2011, 02:38:34 PM »
"Surf's Up" - just listen to the First Movement music. Amazing!
Logged
"Brian is The Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his f***ing messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything" - Dennis Wilson
stack-o-tracks
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1408
The baker man
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #23 on:
November 11, 2011, 02:44:21 PM »
Chug-a-Lug
Logged
No mas, por favor.
jonjameshall
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 18
Re: Brian's Most Complex Composition?
«
Reply #24 on:
November 11, 2011, 03:02:00 PM »
musically, lyrically and conceptually - for me it has to be Cabin Essence (or Cabinessence if your on 20/20)
Logged
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 20 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...