Previously released material on The Smile Sessions?

[OBLiO]

I'll play Devil's Advocate for this discussion and ask whether original intent is a song-by-song deal, because discussions a few months ago centered on the Fire-H&V Intro track. As it appeared on BWPS they were joined, and that was the "Fire" element in that section. Yet the argument of original intent was the basis for saying it was a David Leaf creation and not Brian's original intent for the tracks in 1966-67. And thousands of people who didn't own the bootlegs and heard the track for the first time on BWPS now know that track as Fire because that's how it eventually appeared, no matter what Brian's intent would have been.

With Fire and H&V Intro appearing for the first time officially as one track, original intent from 1967 was relevant, but with Good Vibrations it's not?

Song by song is difficult to determine mainly because the edits are not done. How would the recorded pieces be edited? I don't think the original intent is important as the final result. There are interchangeable sections in the music and some edits of the original recordings could have been repeated more than once in different places in the entire structure. The 2004 Fire is different than the '66 Fire but is still a functioning piece of music where it is even if it was meant to appear somewhere else. I think original intent is based more on what story you want to tell. Good Vibrations potentially could have been dropped from SMiLE, as well, even after it was decided to go on the record. I remember George Martin saying he was pressured to release a single prior to Sgt Pepper. Even after all the years passed and all the accolades, he still believed that Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane should have been on Pepper and not released as a single. Let's say Pepper was never released and put it in SMiLE's shoes. For years, tapes turn up and it's in bits and pieces and all that. In 2004, a version is presented by Paul including Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, and Only a Northern Song... and eventually a version with the original recordings. I wouldn't mind the three extra songs and I would expect the 2004 track listing, no matter the original intention. As far as the late additions, transitions and such, there are workarounds... just replace that stuff with something else and adjust the editing in those spots, but leave the 2004 story intact.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Number one, the post is homophobic. Calling BW fans Brian-fellating is calling them gay -- as a slur. It's not appropriate.

Brian has many female fans. Your point is at best 50% valid.

That was a joke, of course, in response to a mild over-reaction.  Within the confines of this board, the point was understood as intended.

[guitarfool2002]

It was common practice in 1966-67 for record companies in the US more than the UK to build albums around a single - whatever single was the current "hot" single for any given artist would usually have been used as the driving force to market and sell the album. Everyone pretty much knows that from their own album collections and their own knowledge of their favorite bands and can point to at least a few examples where this was the case.

So again I'll say the fact that Good Vibrations was the current "hot" single for the Beach Boys would have been the driving force of whatever album would have been next in line for release. In Jan 1967 that was Smile, in summer 1967 that was Smiley Smile but that album had the more current single "Heroes" as the lead track...yet Good Vibrations by then at least 7 months old and having expired it's top-10 shelf life, was included.

Why was that older single included? To drive sales, and I'd guess they got at least a few thousand more sales from fans who wanted Good Vibrations on an album and the only place to get it was Smiley Smile.

The Beatles did it with the US "Magical Mystery Tour" album: Instead of releasing an EP as they did in the UK with only the film soundtrack songs, Capitol threw together the most recent Beatles singles so US fans could buy them on an album, despite the fact that one single was a year old at the time.

That was Capitol's marketing in 66-67, plain and simple, and for Brian to not have gone along with it would not have made sense, since including the single on your next album equaled more sales and more distribution. Convince record shops to order 250 copies versus 25 copies by saying "Good Vibrations" is on this album! Bingo...more orders come in.

So that is the background as I see it for including "Good Vibrations" on Smile, and then Smile: It was standard procedure and a no-brainer if Capitol and Brian wanted to increase sales.

But this is after GV was re-recorded and released as a hit single, and after it had been recorded ostensibly for inclusion on the Pet Sounds album with Brian's collaborator Tony Asher.

The evidence stacks up: Tony Asher originally wrote the lyrics, not Van Dyke Parks, and the song appears on a tracklist memo for Pet Sounds a week or so after the first recording session in Feb. 1966.

So the genesis of that song was not something which directly led to it being included on Smile or Smiley Smile or even BWPS...and the fact that it was released or almost released in those ways was a byproduct of the way things were released at that time more than Brian creating a song which was always fated to be part of the Smile song cycle: it was nothing more than a Pet Sounds album track which then became the BB's single in fall '66 and ended up on the next Beach Boys album as a sales driver.

[Bicyclerider]

I feel like we're arguing about nothing - no one is saying (are they?) that when Brian first started recording GV he meant it to be part of Smile.  We know it was originally to be on Pet Sounds.  If that's what you're arguing, no one is disagreeing.

As far as GV not being part of the Smile sessions, technically there is some overlap (Wind Chimes).  The song changed dramatically from it's initial PS incarnation.  And Brian asked Van Dyke to write lyrics for the song - hmmm, that seems to bring it a little closer to a "Smile era" track, doesn't it?  But again, all this is really irrelevant to the question of whether Brian intended to include GV on Smile - not if he intended to include it in Feb 66 before the Van Dyke Parks collaboration was even an idea in his mind, but if during the preparation of Smile (tracklist, cover prep) Brian meant for it to be included.  And he obviously did.

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe it isn't anything specific to the last few pages of this thread, but my point isn't to "argue" anything and instead to say I think Good Vibrations appeared on Smile in spite of what Brian was doing at the time with Smile: It was the current single and not part of a larger grand scheme Brian had in his mind for the song. Naturally the current single goes on the next album as I described a few minutes ago. Good Vibrations had as much to do with Smile as it did with Smiley Smile. There, I said it.

I admit I'm a bit warped sometimes in my thinking, but I'd rather see Good Vibrations considered on its own merits as one of the best singles ever recorded instead of part of Smile, which I think detracts from the uniqueness of both GV the single and Smile the album project.

[bgas]

Maybe it isn't anything specific to the last few pages of this thread, but my point isn't to "argue" anything and instead to say I think Good Vibrations appeared on Smile in spite of what Brian was doing at the time with Smile: It was the current single and not part of a larger grand scheme Brian had in his mind for the song. Naturally the current single goes on the next album as I described a few minutes ago. Good Vibrations had as much to do with Smile as it did with Smiley Smile. There, I said it.

I admit I'm a bit warped sometimes in my thinking, but I'd rather see Good Vibrations considered on its own merits as one of the best singles ever recorded instead of part of Smile, which I think detracts from the uniqueness of both GV the single and Smile the album project.

You're losing me now; first, everything was about intent. now it's about condsidering GV on it's own merits.  Really, I haven't seen anyone challenging it's merits.
Maybe you need to step back and think. Intent is gone, passe.
Let's talk about something else

[RagingSea]

Maybe it isn't anything specific to the last few pages of this thread, but my point isn't to "argue" anything and instead to say I think Good Vibrations appeared on Smile in spite of what Brian was doing at the time with Smile: It was the current single and not part of a larger grand scheme Brian had in his mind for the song. Naturally the current single goes on the next album as I described a few minutes ago. Good Vibrations had as much to do with Smile as it did with Smiley Smile. There, I said it.

I admit I'm a bit warped sometimes in my thinking, but I'd rather see Good Vibrations considered on its own merits as one of the best singles ever recorded instead of part of Smile, which I think detracts from the uniqueness of both GV the single and Smile the album project.

Jesus dude!!....do you yak and yak just for the sake of yaking?
Give it a little rest...Please!

[pixletwin]

Maybe it isn't anything specific to the last few pages of this thread, but my point isn't to "argue" anything and instead to say I think Good Vibrations appeared on Smile in spite of what Brian was doing at the time with Smile: It was the current single and not part of a larger grand scheme Brian had in his mind for the song. Naturally the current single goes on the next album as I described a few minutes ago. Good Vibrations had as much to do with Smile as it did with Smiley Smile. There, I said it.

I admit I'm a bit warped sometimes in my thinking, but I'd rather see Good Vibrations considered on its own merits as one of the best singles ever recorded instead of part of Smile, which I think detracts from the uniqueness of both GV the single and Smile the album project.

Jesus dude!!....do you yak and yak just for the sake of yaking?
Give it a little rest...Please!

Best first post ever. Coming out to say shut up. 

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe it isn't anything specific to the last few pages of this thread, but my point isn't to "argue" anything and instead to say I think Good Vibrations appeared on Smile in spite of what Brian was doing at the time with Smile: It was the current single and not part of a larger grand scheme Brian had in his mind for the song. Naturally the current single goes on the next album as I described a few minutes ago. Good Vibrations had as much to do with Smile as it did with Smiley Smile. There, I said it.

I admit I'm a bit warped sometimes in my thinking, but I'd rather see Good Vibrations considered on its own merits as one of the best singles ever recorded instead of part of Smile, which I think detracts from the uniqueness of both GV the single and Smile the album project.

Jesus dude!!....do you yak and yak just for the sake of yaking?
Give it a little rest...Please!

Best first post ever. Coming out to say shut up. 

First post or someone hiding behind another name? Give me a fucking break.

If I "yak" too much on this board than I'll consider myself in damned good company.

[drbeachboy]

Keep on yaking! Personally, I enjoy your posts and you know your stuff.

[guitarfool2002]

Thank you Dr.! That was nice to read. I get carried away sometimes, no doubt. 

It will be interesting to see who this "RagingSea" really is or was back in 2006...and if "RagingSea" doesn't like what I have to say, don't read it, simple as that. I see smoke being blown all over certain topics but I stay out of it before telling someone else to shut up, especially if I've contributed nothing at all to the discussion onto which the smoke is being blown.

[pixletwin]

Keep on yaking! Personally, I enjoy your posts and you know your stuff.

Ditto. Isn't yaking kind of the point of a message board? 

[Jason]

For all of you who are bitching about yakking -

"...with regard to freedom of speech there are basically two positions: you defend it vigorously for views you hate, or you reject it and prefer Stalinist/fascist standards." - Noam Chomsky

[hypehat]

Can't we all agree that Mike is a dick, and that's exactly why we love him

Indeed!

[buddhahat]

I think Good Vibrations fits perfectly within the rest of Smile musically. The only thing that doesn't fit is the lyrics.

GV fits musically very much with earlier tracks such as Wind Chimes, Look, Wonderful. These all feel like a development of his Pet Sounds style. LTSDada, Great Shape, Barnyard, cabinessence and Worms feel more of a precursor of the 67/68 albums to my ears. I think Smile is a real transition period stylistically for Brian, but I guess that's obvious when you listen to how different PS and Smiley sound!

[brother john]

I agree with guitarfool that GV really doesn't belong on Smile, for all the reasons he suggested, and because musically, sonically, emotionally, lyrically its so at odds with most Smile. Smile is by turn either quite dark or quite frivolous or juvenile, and GV is a piece of pure, accessible pop. I've always thought of GV as a piece of music that exists in and of itself with no ties to any other BB project. It was a single, and that's it. It's always kinda bugged me that it got attached to Smile, and I'm glad to hear people questioning that here on the board. 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I think it ties in with SMiLE because it was the beginning of how Brian decided to record things in sections. GV was the blueprint of how he was going to work on the next album.

[John Manning]

I think Good Vibrations fits perfectly within the rest of Smile musically. The only thing that doesn't fit is the lyrics.

Agree. Musically at least one of its themes is echoed in another SMiLE piece but lyrically it has more to do with the likes of "Little Miss America".  If only VDP had agreed to write fresh lyrics…  maybe for the Deluxe 10th anniversary edition of BWPS…?

[BiG GRiN]

In the 'Bible', (maybe full of mistakes?) the original proposed artwork for SMiLE album looks like that, with no mention of Good Vibration.

Maybe it was only a first draft?

[Peter Reum]

There are several variations of the Smile front cover....some of which have Good Vibrations under the Smile logo, and some that don`t...None of them is the "actual cover."

[filledeplage]

Can't we just all compromise that Brian and Mike are  both important to the music success story known as the Beach Boys. Before the offstage craziness consumed both of them, they were just two cousins wanting to perform in band and make music. That music turned out in the long run as the greatest music ever written. So lets just raise a glass and appreciate the three brothers, cousin, and a friend from Hawthorne California.

Smile Brian - I'll raise a glass to your best post!  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mr Skeleton, say hello to Miss Closet.

[SMiLE Brian]

whatever....

[Mike's Beard]

Can't we just all compromise that Brian and Mike are  both important to the music success story known as the Beach Boys. Before the offstage craziness consumed both of them, they were just two cousins wanting to perform in band and make music. That music turned out in the long run as the greatest music ever written. So lets just raise a glass and appreciate the three brothers, cousin, and a friend from Hawthorne California.

 

[Mike's Beard]

Still laughing.