Previously released material on The Smile Sessions?

[Micha]

I'm not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version. Actually that would surprise me. On BWPS, the famous "blueprint", they follow the earlier recorded version of Wind Chimes. Actually only the arrangement for the first section is used from the box set version.

Again, I don't think that Linett is using the word blueprint in the way that you're suggesting here.

Actually, I'm not suggesting how he uses that word at all, and I was naive enough to think that calling it "the famous blueprint" would make the irony clear in how I used the word myself. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

and it would be a decent guess to say that GV would have either ended side one (alla "Sloop John B") or started side two (as it did on Smiley Smile).

Yes, that's just a guess. The single from "Party" was last on side two, so why not put GV there? (Yes I know, "Barbara Ann" wasn't meant to be a single, and it was Capitol's decision to make it one after the album had been delivered...) Makes a better closer to me than Surf's Up no matter what Vosse says.

Apparently releasing "BA" was Brian's idea. I know...

[Jim V.]

and it would be a decent guess to say that GV would have either ended side one (alla "Sloop John B") or started side two (as it did on Smiley Smile).

Yes, that's just a guess. The single from "Party" was last on side two, so why not put GV there? (Yes I know, "Barbara Ann" wasn't meant to be a single, and it was Capitol's decision to make it one after the album had been delivered...) Makes a better closer to me than Surf's Up no matter what Vosse says.

Apparently releasing "BA" was Brian's idea. I know...

You aren't being serious are you? That would kinda throw the whole Capitol trying to ruin "The Little Girl I Once Knew" theory into a bit of confusion.

[Andrew G. Doe]

and it would be a decent guess to say that GV would have either ended side one (alla "Sloop John B") or started side two (as it did on Smiley Smile).

Yes, that's just a guess. The single from "Party" was last on side two, so why not put GV there? (Yes I know, "Barbara Ann" wasn't meant to be a single, and it was Capitol's decision to make it one after the album had been delivered...) Makes a better closer to me than Surf's Up no matter what Vosse says.

Apparently releasing "BA" was Brian's idea. I know...

You aren't being serious are you? That would kinda throw the whole Capitol trying to ruin "The Little Girl I Once Knew" theory into a bit of confusion.

Read it in someone's memoir of the period, and it was very precise & detailed.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I'm not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version. Actually that would surprise me. On BWPS, the famous "blueprint", they follow the earlier recorded version of Wind Chimes. Actually only the arrangement for the first section is used from the box set version.

Again, I don't think that Linett is using the word blueprint in the way that you're suggesting here.

Actually, I'm not suggesting how he uses that word at all, and I was naive enough to think that calling it "the famous blueprint" would make the irony clear in how I used the word myself. 

OK, well, then, I'm confused. Why are you "not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version"?

[Roger Ryan]

I'm not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version. Actually that would surprise me. On BWPS, the famous "blueprint", they follow the earlier recorded version of Wind Chimes. Actually only the arrangement for the first section is used from the box set version.

Again, I don't think that Linett is using the word blueprint in the way that you're suggesting here.

Actually, I'm not suggesting how he uses that word at all, and I was naive enough to think that calling it "the famous blueprint" would make the irony clear in how I used the word myself. 

OK, well, then, I'm confused. Why are you "not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version"?

One really big reason would be to include something previously unreleased on the first disc giving that disc greater appeal. Then the assembly heard on the GV box set can be relegated to an alternate edit on the second disc. Since I believe the GV box set version was edited together by Mark anyway (although the segments were included in that order on a tape reel with leader inbetween, right?), it's not like an official Brian edit/mix is being replaced  with something new. Arguably, following the BWPS edit of "Wind Chimes" would be honoring Brian's wishes as much as the GV box set version.

[juggler]

and it would be a decent guess to say that GV would have either ended side one (alla "Sloop John B") or started side two (as it did on Smiley Smile).

Yes, that's just a guess. The single from "Party" was last on side two, so why not put GV there? (Yes I know, "Barbara Ann" wasn't meant to be a single, and it was Capitol's decision to make it one after the album had been delivered...) Makes a better closer to me than Surf's Up no matter what Vosse says.

Apparently releasing "BA" was Brian's idea. I know...

You aren't being serious are you? That would kinda throw the whole Capitol trying to ruin "The Little Girl I Once Knew" theory into a bit of confusion.

Read it in someone's memoir of the period, and it was very precise & detailed.

Yes, Ken Mansfield's book.

Very cool story of Brian walking into Capitol with an acetate of Barbara Ann and declaring to a skeptical Mansfield that the song would be the BBs' next single.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&lpg=PA17&ots=sTxlHMPVW5&dq=%22ken%20mansfield%22%20%22barbara%20ann%22&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Andrew G. Doe]

and it would be a decent guess to say that GV would have either ended side one (alla "Sloop John B") or started side two (as it did on Smiley Smile).

Yes, that's just a guess. The single from "Party" was last on side two, so why not put GV there? (Yes I know, "Barbara Ann" wasn't meant to be a single, and it was Capitol's decision to make it one after the album had been delivered...) Makes a better closer to me than Surf's Up no matter what Vosse says.

Apparently releasing "BA" was Brian's idea. I know...

You aren't being serious are you? That would kinda throw the whole Capitol trying to ruin "The Little Girl I Once Knew" theory into a bit of confusion.

Read it in someone's memoir of the period, and it was very precise & detailed.

Yes, Ken Mansfield's book.

Very cool story of Brian walking into Capitol with an acetate of Barbara Ann and declaring to a skeptical Mansfield that the song would be the BBs' next single.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&lpg=PA17&ots=sTxlHMPVW5&dq=%22ken%20mansfield%22%20%22barbara%20ann%22&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=false

Bless you. Memo to self - start writing this sh*t down.

[Micha]

I'm not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version. Actually that would surprise me. On BWPS, the famous "blueprint", they follow the earlier recorded version of Wind Chimes. Actually only the arrangement for the first section is used from the box set version.

Again, I don't think that Linett is using the word blueprint in the way that you're suggesting here.

Actually, I'm not suggesting how he uses that word at all, and I was naive enough to think that calling it "the famous blueprint" would make the irony clear in how I used the word myself. 

OK, well, then, I'm confused. Why are you "not so sure that Wind Chimes will be just the box set version"?

Because that version always seemed incomplete to me. When I first heard it I remember thinking "That's all?" Later someone supplied me with mp3s from the SOT series featuring session excerpts which had a complete instrumental take "5" from an early session which I liked better. It went: 2 verses - chorus - tinkly bit - chorus - another instrumental bit - ending chorus.

The box set version, if I remember correctly, was mixed from a tape that contained a re-recorded verse section (chopped off about 1/8 of a bar too early) with Carl's lead, a chorus from the first session (astonishingly one with a clarinet mistake) with vocal overdubs, and a re-recorded tinkly bit. As the other three sections weren't copied onto that tape, the tinkly bit was mixed as a fade for the box set. No one can tell whether the last three sections would have been added by Brian had he done a final mix in 1966/67 or not.

The BWPS version contains all 6 sections from the early take as opposed to the box set version that only contains the first three. The arrangement for the first section on BWPS follows the one on the box set. So it wouldn't surprise me if they created a new version with all six sections from the old tapes - you don't even need digital technology to do that, you could cut it on a tape recorder.

I wonder how long the tinkly bit would be in that case. In the original recording it's 4 run-throughs, the re-recorded tinkly bit has 6 complete run-throughs, and on BWPS it's only 2.

[Bicyclerider]

Since Brian rerecorded the verse section, and the fade/multiple pianos bit, that means the original take 5 would no longer have been in consideration for the final master.  the multiple pianos redone section is too long to take the place of the original section, and certainly sounds like a fade.  But I see your point - since we don't have a final mix, just the multitrack edit with the counting inbetween two sections, we don't know what Brian would have done with those in a final mix.  The fact that he used the original chorus backing and overdubbed it, then edited it into the two new pieces, suggests that he wasn't going to use the original ending chorus or instrumental break section - because why not edit those in while you're editing in the chorus for overdubs?  But we don't know what he would have done further with the song if he had completed it.  I wonder if Bruce or Alan had a Wind chimes acetate with the Vosse described mix - that would be interesting to hear.   

[Micha]

But I see your point

I'm pretty glad about that, because I'm not a native English speaker and it took me quite some time to write that post. 

There's one thing about your post though that I don't understand, which may be due to my English or a misapprehension of mine about that tape we're talking about:

because why not edit those in while you're editing in the chorus for overdubs?

Could you be so kind and try to explain me a bit more detailed what you mean by that?

That piece of tape is so strange anyway. The first section is chopped off too early and still got vocals overdubbed, the second section (chorus) is counted in twice, and they even try to overdub on the counting in as if they were hearing it for the first time, a chorus take was used that featured a mistake. Was that done for practising purposes only?

[BiG GRiN]

Hi fellows. I am sorry but I have a silly and naïve question asked a million time maybe, but I never understood why 'Good Vibrations' is always added into the SMiLE album (SMiLE fan mixes and bootlegs); according to all the sources I read through the years and answer given by Brian himself in an interview, GV never intended to be part of SMiLE. I always read it was the 'link' between "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE"; started during Pet Sounds sessions, achieved in the beginning of the SMiLE sessions. I can't see myself anything in common between GV and SMiLE.

[hypehat]

Capitol would have most likely insisted on its presence due to it being the big single at the time, and it not belonging on any album prior, much like Sloop John B in relation to PS.  It ended up on Smiley Smile, after all, where it actually does sound out of place!

[bgas]

Hi fellows. I am sorry but I have a silly and naïve question asked a million time maybe, but I never understood why 'Good Vibrations' is always added into the SMiLE album (SMiLE fan mixes and bootlegs); according to all the sources I read through the years and answer given by Brian himself in an interview, GV never intended to be part of SMiLE. I always read it was the 'link' between "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE"; started during Pet Sounds sessions, achieved in the beginning of the SMiLE sessions. I can't see myself anything in common between GV and SMiLE.

Maybe just google a bit for the Smile back cover and you'll see at least one thing in common

[doinnothin]

Yeah, it's fine to leave it off if you're doing a personal mix or "as Brian intended". If you're trying to put out an "as it would have been released in 66/67", than it's tougher to justify. I imagine a lot of people put it on because 1) there's not an overabundance of completed material for SMiLE, so it helps fill it out 2) it does have a lot in common in terms of modular production style, and musical themes 3) they like it.

[BiG GRiN]

Hi fellows. I am sorry but I have a silly and naïve question asked a million time maybe, but I never understood why 'Good Vibrations' is always added into the SMiLE album (SMiLE fan mixes and bootlegs); according to all the sources I read through the years and answer given by Brian himself in an interview, GV never intended to be part of SMiLE. I always read it was the 'link' between "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE"; started during Pet Sounds sessions, achieved in the beginning of the SMiLE sessions. I can't see myself anything in common between GV and SMiLE.

Maybe just google a bit for the Smile back cover and you'll see at least one thing in common

  Are you talking about BWPS or the original cancelled and never released album? if you are talking about the 1966's cancelled project, there is no definitive back cover. Only speculation and tracklist signed by Carl.

[BiG GRiN]

Yeah, it's fine to leave it off if you're doing a personal mix or "as Brian intended". If you're trying to put out an "as it would have been released in 66/67", than it's tougher to justify. I imagine a lot of people put it on because 1) there's not an overabundance of completed material for SMiLE, so it helps fill it out 2) it does have a lot in common in terms of modular production style, and musical themes 3) they like it.

Good point.  modular production very similar on GV and H&V. A giant puzzle of short musical pieces.

[drbeachboy]

How about the Good Vibrations X3 across the front of the album cover? That tells me that whether by design or by Capitol, it was to be included. Welcome!

[bgas]

Hi fellows. I am sorry but I have a silly and naïve question asked a million time maybe, but I never understood why 'Good Vibrations' is always added into the SMiLE album (SMiLE fan mixes and bootlegs); according to all the sources I read through the years and answer given by Brian himself in an interview, GV never intended to be part of SMiLE. I always read it was the 'link' between "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE"; started during Pet Sounds sessions, achieved in the beginning of the SMiLE sessions. I can't see myself anything in common between GV and SMiLE.

Maybe just google a bit for the Smile back cover and you'll see at least one thing in common

  Are you talking about BWPS or the original cancelled and never released album? if you are talking about the 1966's cancelled project, there is no definitive back cover. Only speculation and tracklist signed by Carl.

Ahh Grasshopper, you see not the cancellation  makes it the definitive back cover? 
and then flip the cover as drbeachboy has so grandly pointed out and find GV X 3
just go with the power of the schwartz and you'll be fine

[BiG GRiN]

How about the Good Vibrations X3 across the front of the album cover? That tells me that whether by design or by Capitol, it was to be included. Welcome!

Maybe it was to be included or not, who knows. Same with "Sloop John B" on Pet Sounds. Not intended to be included, but asked/forced by Capitol.
You know, I was just asking/wondering/waiting for opinions. And I am just agree with Brian and others, about "GV" was the perfect link between Pet Sounds and SMiLE. It makes perfect sense. The greatest song/production/piece of art, before the greatest album of all time.

[Jason]

Maybe it was to be included or not, who knows. Same with "Sloop John B" on Pet Sounds. Not intended to be included, but asked/forced by Capitol.

Wrong. Brian's handwritten Pet Sounds tracklist included Sloop John B. You were saying?

[BiG GRiN]

Ahh Grasshopper, you see not the cancellation  makes it the definitive back cover? 
and then flip the cover as drbeachboy has so grandly pointed out and find GV X 3
just go with the power of the schwartz and you'll be fine
[/quote]
You miss the point young pal. The fact that GV was printed on the front and back cover, doesn't mean Brian and Van Dyke wanted to add the song into the album.
See 'Sloop John B' and Brian interviews. And instead of argue, you can just tell me what do you think? take a deep breath and relax

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Maybe it was to be included or not, who knows. Same with "Sloop John B" on Pet Sounds. Not intended to be included, but asked/forced by Capitol.

Wrong. Brian's handwritten Pet Sounds tracklist included Sloop John B. You were saying?

That wasn't Brian's handwriting. Probably Carl's or Diane's, or....oh, Pet Sounds. 

[Jason]

Ahh Grasshopper, you see not the cancellation  makes it the definitive back cover?  
and then flip the cover as drbeachboy has so grandly pointed out and find GV X 3
just go with the power of the schwartz and you'll be fine
You miss the point young pal. The fact that GV was printed on the front and back cover, doesn't mean Brian and Van Dyke wanted to add the song into the album.
See 'Sloop John B' and Brian interviews. And instead of argue, you can just tell me what do you think? take a deep breath and relax

The foder?

[BiG GRiN]

Maybe it was to be included or not, who knows. Same with "Sloop John B" on Pet Sounds. Not intended to be included, but asked/forced by Capitol.

Wrong. Brian's handwritten Pet Sounds tracklist included Sloop John B. You were saying?

Hi. Never seen Brian's handwritten Pet Sounds tracklist. Only read and heard Brian explained why 'SJB' appears on Pet Sounds.
Because of Capitol asked for a potential hit and they thought 'SJB' could be the hit, among weird and non top selling songs.
Plus 'Sloop John B' has nothing in common with the Pet Sounds concept album Brian and Tony intented to create. No link with personal, intimate, melancholy, loss, all themes Brian wanted to express.