SMiLE Sessions box set!

[rab2591]

My two cents, Bill has a well and thoroughly researched hypothesis, just as most of us do. And like most of our hypothesi, it ebbs and swells in acceptance. I don't happen to be convinced but respect Bill's work. Also, even though I'm sceptical, I will not be shocked if some day [maybe soon] it is revealed by Brian and VanDyke that back in the day it was very much intentioned as a zen koan.

Indeed. I really dig both Fishmonk's and Bill Tobelman's posts....and it's nice to see some alternate theories regarding SMiLE - sure, some have the right to be refuted, but nonetheless talked about and thoroughly discussed - not that anyone else has said otherwise however.

[hypehat]

I don't really know what exactly is being argued against. Bill is trying to make an overall point how zen spirituality and psychedelic drugs influenced smile and AGD and others are focused on attacking any inconsistencies in the individual points.

The scope of Bill's argument isn't really being addressed. It's like criticizing the pyramids for a few chipped building blocks.

Try reading my posts again - yes, I'm citing specific examples, but only to illustrate how there's another possible explanation, and that's Bill's big problem - he can't see, or even admit, there might be a more prosaic explanation. He's invested so much time and effort in his Zen approach that to admit even the possibility that his premise might be groundless is impossible. He's coming at this with a closed mind, an idee fixee: that there is only one possible explanation, and that he's discovered it.  I'm willing to admit that there might be some truth in this and am willing to explore that possibility, up to a point - and that point is round about when someone claims that "the glass was raised" really means "the fireman opened the window".

But, as previously stated, now I realise it's all an elaborate - and successful - leg-pull, no need to exercise the grey matter any further. 

This, pretty much. Although much more reasoned than my diatribes. You are twisting everything to fit a rather unique explanation for this material and it doesn't work, in myy opinion. Sometimes, it's just Mike Love drinking some damn milk. 

[Bill Tobelman]

I gave Andrew this one.

David Leaf's SMILE film has Loren talking about Brian's 1st trip. Brian is in the bedroom, head buried in pillow, crying about his parents. Later Brian emerges saying "enough of that crap" (I paraphrase).

Compare that with the printed BWPS lyric, "Sonny down snuff, I'm alright."

I think I got the analogy one wrong on this one Andrew. Sorry about that.

[OBLiO]

hello everyone,

new member...

My very first interpretation of the SMiLE album cover for BWPS, and this is before I started researching
anything about SMiLE, is this: I saw the little "i" in the title and that sparked my curiosity.
Why the little "i"? I had heard "hang onto your ego"... then I took the remaining letters and noticed
they spell the word "ELMS" backward and  thought "hey cool" - ego in check amongst the Elms reversed.
I wasn't trying to read into anything, but that was my initial interpretation, which is the point of art, anyway.

Not sure if this was mentioned in this discussion, yet. Brian lived in Laurel Canyon and that area was a
hub for the counter culture at that time. Drugs, especially LSD, and mysticism, especially eastern, were
prominent at that time. I know that Brian moved out of Laurel Canyon around the time of SMiLE.
Does anyone know the exact time he moved and why? I had assumed it was to get away from what
was happening there at that time.

A couple more of "MY" interpretations:  

Wonderful - possibly the "tree of liberty" which did exist at one time on the east coast and I have even
conjured up the statue of liberty in the imagery.

Vega-Tables - Vega is a star in the Summer Triangle along with Deneb and Altair. Vega reaches zenith in
August which is Autumn... Harvest time. Looking at Frank Holmes artwork, there is a crack between the
field and the room... a table with the word Vega written on and charted as it moves across the sky.
Also stories related to the star placements at this time relate to transformation and spiritual enlightenment.

The milk picture could have been just Mike drinking milk, but at some point someone said "hey cool lets
use that picture because we have cows on the album"

Wish they could have finished the record back then because the music is "wow" and Van Dyke was able
to express what Brian was into and what he was feeling at the time.

[Jeff]

So how many of you would believe that one of the 1940s Woody Woodpecker artists hid modern art images--including phallic symbols--in the cartoon?  If you've read the NY Times today, you'd probably believe it, since there's an article about it.  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/arts/design/woody-woodpecker-and-shamus-culhanes-animation.html?hp

But absent the article, I have no doubt that AGD, hypehat, et al., if they were cartoon fans, would ridicule this idea mercilessly.  We'd hear over and over that sometimes a woodpecker is just a woodpecker. 

But sometimes it's not.

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew said:

Try reading my posts again - yes, I'm citing specific examples, but only to illustrate how there's another possible explanation,

You're right Andrew, there are other explanations. Yours are absolutely fine. The album was meant to be presented without explanation & you're free to choose what you like.

and that's Bill's big problem - he can't see, or even admit, there might be a more prosaic explanation.

We've had 44 years of prosaic explanations. I grew up with prosaic explanations and am surrounded by them. They rule the SMILE world. After 14 years of a theory that hasn't been disproved all I have to show for it is one paragraph in the wikipedia SMILE page and some nice people who tell me they like my stuff.

He's invested so much time and effort in his Zen approach that to admit even the possibility that his premise might be groundless is impossible. He's coming at this with a closed mind, an idee fixee: that there is only one possible explanation, and that he's discovered it.

I wish it was groundless, then I would be bowling or something instead of typing.

It was my hope early on that someone would take over this SMILE stuff for me. It was more fun to be just a fan & take it as presented. I was hoping someone smarter, wiser, and a better writer than me would take the ball & run with it. Then I could sit back & enjoy again.

Andrew, you were dead right about the 12 track handwritten note to Capitol records. Before that I had blindly not questioned the common assumption that it was Brian's writing. Thank you for the truth.

The mistake most SMILE fans make is that they fail to question everything. They should totally question any and all statements and claims made by me. We should question ourselves and our musical heroes as well. This is how we can find the truth.

It should be like a science. The best answer is it until a better one comes along. I had a theory & tested it. It needed a lot of refinement along the way but the basic premise never changed.

I'm willing to admit that there might be some truth in this and am willing to explore that possibility, up to a point - and that point is round about when someone claims that "the glass was raised" really means "the fireman opened the window".

By breaking the lyrics up into smaller bundles and taking them out of context new possibilities of meanings arise. They can be related to Brian Wilson's spiritual experiences. This creates an alternate layer of meaning to the piece. It's real fun to explore this stuff & laugh at what you come up with. You can't prove you're right & you can't prove you're wrong. It puts the original fun feel back into SMILE. I hope some folks will join me someday in this endeavor, or even better--I hope someone takes the ball & runs with it.

It turns SMILE into the spiritual record Brian Wilson originally claimed it was, and reinforces the idea that this piece of art was on another level entirely.

[OBLiO]

Hi Bill,

For what it's worth, I DIG your website and your writings. I sought the "How To Speak Hip" album out and
listened to it. Also, I remember visiting a mutual friend in Laurel Canyon about 15 years ago and he was a
surfer and heavy into Native American Spirituality. I see the connections you discovered and they are present
and prevalent even today. The only thing I can say about the use of LSD is that it is not needed to achieve
enlightenment, but it was sold that way when it was new and did influence many top artists at that time.

There is another thing about the Elements section: in eastern philosophies there are more than four elements.
Wood and Metal, i.e.  In India, "ether" is considered an element.
Zen Gardens use rock formations: earth water fire air sky in an ascending order.
Also when I hear the end of You Are My Sunshine... that long legato cello descending, I can see books melting
on the shelves after reading your thoughts on that.

Not taking sides here, just saying thanks for your work.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So how many of you would believe that one of the 1940s Woody Woodpecker artists hid modern art images--including phallic symbols--in the cartoon?  If you've read the NY Times today, you'd probably believe it, since there's an article about it.  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/arts/design/woody-woodpecker-and-shamus-culhanes-animation.html?hp

But absent the article, I have no doubt that AGD, hypehat, et al., if they were cartoon fans, would ridicule this idea mercilessly.  We'd hear over and over that sometimes a woodpecker is just a woodpecker.  

But sometimes it's not.

You'd be surprised what pops up in some old Betty Boop cartoons - or maybe not, come to think of it...  BTW, read the article (interesting and thank you) and there's not the slightest inference that there's any such image in a (hur hur) Woody film. So in this case, a woodpecker is just a woodpecker.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I gave Andrew this one.

David Leaf's SMILE film has Loren talking about Brian's 1st trip. Brian is in the bedroom, head buried in pillow, crying about his parents. Later Brian emerges saying "enough of that crap" (I paraphrase).

Compare that with the printed BWPS lyric, "Sonny down snuff, I'm alright."

I think I got the analogy one wrong on this one Andrew. Sorry about that.

No problem - happens to me all the time. Usually much more embarrassingly.

By breaking the lyrics up into smaller bundles and taking them out of context new possibilities of meanings arise.

Ah, that's a terrible thing to say to a researcher !  Goes on all the time of course, mostly in advertising: if a film review says something like "if you like mindless, plotless, clueless movies that would insult the intelligence of a fern, you'll love this", on the ads and posters it'll be "you'll love this !". Simply, taking anything out of context invalidates it. I could claim that "Fun, Fun, Fun" references Native American myths and oral tradition... and you'd rightly laugh in my face.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not sure if this was mentioned in this discussion, yet. Brian lived in Laurel Canyon and that area was a
hub for the counter culture at that time. Drugs, especially LSD, and mysticism, especially eastern, were
prominent at that time. I know that Brian moved out of Laurel Canyon around the time of SMiLE.
Does anyone know the exact time he moved and why? I had assumed it was to get away from what
was happening there at that time.

According to the tireless Mott, C., Brian moved to Bellagio in April 1967, as I recall: if I'm wrong, he'll correct me.

Wonderful - possibly the "tree of liberty" which did exist at one time on the east coast and I have even
conjured up the statue of liberty in the imagery.

Yup - 'liberty trees' were common in revolutionary times: Boston used to have a famous one.

Vega-Tables - Vega is a star in the Summer Triangle along with Deneb and Altair. Vega reaches zenith in
August which is Autumn... Harvest time. Looking at Frank Holmes artwork, there is a crack between the
field and the room... a table with the word Vega written on and charted as it moves across the sky.
Also stories related to the star placements at this time relate to transformation and spiritual enlightenment.

Ummmmmmmm... the autumnal equinox in the northern hemisphere is either the 22nd or 23rd of September. August has never been autumn. Also, "Vega-table" - Frank's stated that's a visual pun.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian and Van Dyke are embarrassed of smile. At least to some degree.

Neither of them look exactly embarrassed about it in London on February 20th, 2004.

[buddhahat]

So how many of you would believe that one of the 1940s Woody Woodpecker artists hid modern art images--including phallic symbols--in the cartoon?  If you've read the NY Times today, you'd probably believe it, since there's an article about it.  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/arts/design/woody-woodpecker-and-shamus-culhanes-animation.html?hp

But absent the article, I have no doubt that AGD, hypehat, et al., if they were cartoon fans, would ridicule this idea mercilessly.  We'd hear over and over that sometimes a woodpecker is just a woodpecker. 

But sometimes it's not.

Cheers for that - fascinating read.

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew G. Doe said:

Simply, taking anything out of context invalidates it.

So then, in the case of the Woody Woodpecker artist cited by Jeff those hidden single frame pieces of art should be ignored because they are taken out of the context of the moving picture.

Doesn't it come down to the question of artistic intent?

Artists are not advertisers (well for the most part at least).

But Frank Holmes is an artist & when Chris Allen (Open Sky) asked him Frank said that he deliberately puts the hidden meaning type stuff into his art.

[Bill Tobelman]

Oblio said:

The only thing I can say about the use of LSD is that it is not needed to achieve
enlightenment, but it was sold that way when it was new and did influence many top artists at that time.

Right you are. It was sold as a shortcut to enlightenment. Likely many were fooled by thinking their experience was something more than what it was. Others used it as a starting point down their life/path.

There is another thing about the Elements section: in eastern philosophies there are more than four elements.
Wood and Metal, i.e.  In India, "ether" is considered an element.
Zen Gardens use rock formations: earth water fire air sky in an ascending order.

This is also true, the basic elements differ depending on where you are and what you're into.

Similarly, SMILE largely depends upon Brian's surroundings and his influences. This is why I goofed when I started my webpage. I was too Zen oriented and not enough Brian Wilson oriented.

And thanks for your kind words. Let's both take the side of truth.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew G. Doe said:

Simply, taking anything out of context invalidates it.

So then, in the case of the Woody Woodpecker artist cited by Jeff those hidden single frame pieces of art should be ignored because they are taken out of the context of the moving picture.

Doesn't it come down to the question of artistic intent?

Artists are not advertisers (well for the most part at least).

But Frank Holmes is an artist & when Chris Allen (Open Sky) asked him Frank said that he deliberately puts the hidden meaning type stuff into his art.

No... I was referring to your comment about taking lyrics out of context. You can't ignore the cartoon frames, because they are unquestionably present in the finished item... but to take a lyric like this:

The glass was raised
A fired rose
The fullness of the wine
The dim last toasting

(and that's what Brian sang in December 1966)

... and then extract the first line from the context (established by the preceding line "the laughs come hard in old lang syne") and twist it to mean "the fireman opened the window" - as you have - is nothing short of laughable.

What about the line "Two step to lamplight cellar tune" ?

Well, it's obvious to me - "Two-step" is a reference to Murry, of course, and as we all know, he turned the garage at the Hawthorne house into a music room for Brian: there were two steps down into the room (see, another pun/clue: Brian obviously told Van Dyke about the music room), hence "cellar tune", because you have to go down to get to a cellar, and what do you do in a music room ? Make, or play music, tunes. Brian also had his bed in there, and doubtless had a desk lamp on his bedside table to read by (as you can see, Brian changed "lamplit" to "lamplight" to confuse the issue - but don't ask him why, he'll never tell you). So, there you have it - that line of "Surf's Up" is about Murry converting the garage for Brian. No question.

That little bit of complete fantasy took me as long to write as it does to read - I was making it up as I went along - but you see how easy it is to both extract meaning where none exists and also make a plausible case for it being correct ?

[Mahalo]

...all of this is only the initial arguing, for when the set comes out there will even more debates about track order, inclusions/exclusions, much less than the meaning of the words themselves...

Do those who are so confident of the meanings of the lyrics understand that they are just interpretations, nothing proven more? I think the only intention VDP ad BW had was to keep those lyrics artistic and poetic, with intent of meaning but vague enough to spark imaginative individual interpretations.

[The Shift]

...all of this is only the initial arguing, for when the set comes out there will even more debates about track order, inclusions/exclusions, much less than the meaning of the words themselves...

Do those who are so confident of the meanings of the lyrics understand that they are just interpretations, nothing proven more? I think the only intention VDP ad BW had was to keep those lyrics artistic and poetic, with intent of meaning but vague enough to spark imaginative individual interpretations.

Good point - perhaps a good reason to avoid the box set like the plague!!!   

[Sam_BFC]

What about the line "Two step to lamplight cellar tune" ?

Well, it's obvious to me - "Two-step" is a reference to Murry, of course, and as we all know, he turned the garage at the Hawthorne house into a music room for Brian: there were two steps down into the room (see, another pun/clue: Brian obviously told Van Dyke about the music room), hence "cellar tune", because you have to go down to get to a cellar, and what do you do in a music room ? Make, or play music, tunes. Brian also had his bed in there, and doubtless had a desk lamp on his bedside table to read by (as you can see, Brian changed "lamplit" to "lamplight" to confuse the issue - but don't ask him why, he'll never tell you). So, there you have it - that line of "Surf's Up" is about Murry converting the garage for Brian. No question.

That little bit of complete fantasy took me as long to write as it does to read - I was making it up as I went along - but you see how easy it is to both extract meaning where none exists and also make a plausible case for it being correct ?

I think this is highly encouraged in literary analysis in education.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Funny thing is, that whether or not Brian and Van Dyke were intending the album to be a Koan - that's exactly what it is and has been and will continue to be.  A puzzle, mystery, which has no answer, but which through the process of attempting to figure it out will either lead you to madness or enlightenment.  How long have we all been debating, arguing and trying to "figure it out"?  Ha ha ha - jokes on us all!  
The fact that the album went unreleased and was left in pieces only made it more of a koan than it would have been had it been completed and released.  I find this all very amusing.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Funny thing is, that whether or not Brian and Van Dyke were intending the album to be a Koan - that's exactly what it is and has been and will continue to be.  A puzzle, mystery, which has no answer, but which through the process of attempting to figure it out will either lead you to madness or enlightenment.  How long have we all been debating, arguing and trying to "figure it out"?  Ha ha ha - jokes on us all!  
The fact that the album went unreleased and was left in pieces only made it more of a koan than it would have been had it been completed and released.  I find this all very amusing.  

Entirely true... but I don't think that was the original gameplan.

[buddhahat]

Funny thing is, that whether or not Brian and Van Dyke were intending the album to be a Koan - that's exactly what it is and has been and will continue to be.  A puzzle, mystery, which has no answer, but which through the process of attempting to figure it out will either lead you to madness or enlightenment.  How long have we all been debating, arguing and trying to "figure it out"?  Ha ha ha - jokes on us all!  
The fact that the album went unreleased and was left in pieces only made it more of a koan than it would have been had it been completed and released.  I find this all very amusing.  

Too true. The greatest lesson Smile can teach us: Accept it as it is.

[Bicyclerider]

You'd be surprised what pops up in some old Betty Boop cartoons - or maybe not, come to think of it...  BTW, read the article (interesting and thank you) and there's not the slightest inference that there's any such image in a (hur hur) Woody film. So in this case, a woodpecker is just a woodpecker.

Yeah, but in my case, an uncommonly LARGE woodpecker!

[Andrew G. Doe]

You'd be surprised what pops up in some old Betty Boop cartoons - or maybe not, come to think of it...  BTW, read the article (interesting and thank you) and there's not the slightest inference that there's any such image in a (hur hur) Woody film. So in this case, a woodpecker is just a woodpecker.

Yeah, but in my case, an uncommonly LARGE woodpecker!

Mrs. Bicyclerider might like to have a say here... 

[Cam Mott]

According to the tireless Mott, C., Brian moved to Bellagio in April 1967, as I recall: if I'm wrong, he'll correct me.

Yep, signed a contract for the house in late March and the press reported they were already moving in early April.

[ESQ Editor]

I specifically asked Brian and Van Dyke about the Zen interpretation, and they both said "no." Van Dyke further said, if there was it was accidental.