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Poll
Question: Rate Smiley Smile
5 - 104 (47.3%)
4 - 53 (24.1%)
3 - 37 (16.8%)
2 - 16 (7.3%)
1 - 5 (2.3%)
0 - 5 (2.3%)
Total Voters: 200

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Author Topic: Smiley Smile  (Read 147981 times)
c-man
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« Reply #550 on: February 18, 2006, 08:14:27 AM »


Which for most tracks is all that there is.  But you make one major omission -- that is Brian's bass on Vegetables.

Correct you are.  And that was done at Western (I think), as opposed to the home studio.
By the way...anyone else think it weird that there are so many songs on "SS" that start with the
letter "W" ?  Were the Wilsons trying to tell us something about how cool that letter is?

C-Man
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jazzfascist
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« Reply #551 on: February 18, 2006, 08:20:01 AM »

Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

I just don't think that you can take the tapes as some final evidence, especially since you don't have tapes of every single session, that was done, you have to piecemeal your understanding of what happened together, by using the various available sources and weigh it against each other. Just because Brian doesn't cry into the microphone and it sounds like he was in control, doesn't mean he actually was in control and Carl's statements tells another story, as does the production credit. As c-man points out you can also hear the others producing in the booth. Brian was probably still the man when it was about getting things down on tape, but if you take Carls statement seriously, it also seems that now the artistic direction also came from the others in the group. Also the album doesn't sound like it was a sharply conceived minimalist album, but rather as something that doesn't go too deep and was loosely jammed together.

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS. Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Well he didn't play everything and SS is also almost an acapella album, so the rest of the group was very responsible for that part, also by that logic would you say that Hal Blaine and the rest of the Wrecking Crew were in control of those albums, where they did most of the instrumental work.

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« Reply #552 on: February 18, 2006, 08:22:52 AM »


Little Pad:  Brian at piano, presumably Chuck Berghoffer is on there somewhere, and per Brian, Al Vescovo.  Carl on Uke?

Gettin' Hungry:  Organ, sounds like Brian on Bass to me, guitars, maybe finally both Al and Carl?

Whistle In:  Piano, hard to tell who is on bass.  Sounds like whoever it is that plays a lot on Wild Honey and Friends.  But it could be anybody really.

Seems like Brian played about everything to me.  I really don't think Al or Dennis had a lot to do, other than sing.

Really?  Brian said Al Vescovo is on "Little Pad"?  When and where was that?  BTW, Vescovo's not on the AFM sheet.  Neither is Berghoffer.
To me, the electric bass on "Gettin' Hungry" sounds like it's played with a pick...therefore probably not Brian.   More likely Al Jardine IMO.
For "Whistle In", the AFM sheet lists only Brian and Carl (and engineer James Lockert and contractor Diane Rovell), so I'm thinking Brian on piano, Carl on bass.

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Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« Reply #553 on: February 18, 2006, 08:51:06 AM »

Like a rolling stone, and I can't get no satisfaction are clearly not the greatest songs ever.



Two different artists there....
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« Reply #554 on: February 18, 2006, 09:03:12 AM »

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Brian said Al Vescovo is on "Little Pad"?  When and where was that? 

Damned if I remember.  I should have saved it.  It was a fairly contemperaneous interview, I think, where the interviewer asked Brian to talk about Smiley Smile a little bit.  I'll dig around to see if I can find the reference - however, Brian may very well have been confusing Little Pad with Diamond Head.

There are sessions for "hawaiian song" on several days, I was under the impression according to Badman that Berghoffer was present at the July 21 session.  Not that I can really hear any String Bass on Little Pad.

Quote
For "Whistle In", the AFM sheet lists only Brian and Carl (and engineer James Lockert and contractor Diane Rovell), so I'm thinking Brian on piano, Carl on bass.

That would certainly make sense...I just feel a little more panache in the little descending lines than I'm familiar with Carl having on bass.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #555 on: February 18, 2006, 09:25:47 AM »

That was an interview from the earlier part of the 90's, where I can verify without any doubt that Brian DID credit Al Vescovo with playing lap steel on "Little Pad". The whole interview was posted once on this board a few years ago, so it probably still exists in full somewhere. Brian says a few lines about various Smiley tracks, nothing shocking - but interesting since he rarely talked about Smiley Smile's tracks. And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad? I don't understand that - give Brian at least some credit that he'd remember if Al Vescovo played steel guitar on Little Pad! Roll Eyes.

I had the full interview but I lost it - all I have are a few random quotes.

Here's another quote from that interview that many folks seem to forget when discussing the origins and history of Fall Breaks:

FALL BREAKS...
BW:That was sort of a song about a cold winter scene. We tried to paint a picture of winter and then spring, but we called it fall. The idea was that it went to spring, late summer and then broke in the winter, We used the "Woody Woodpecker" theme because it was descriptive to us of spring and summer.


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« Reply #556 on: February 18, 2006, 09:30:33 AM »

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And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad?

Just considering all the angles.  The steel on Little Pad seems basic enough for one of the Boys to handle, plus no Al on the AFMs.  I tend to believe that Al was there, as to me the Steel seems nuanced enough to be a pro.  But you kind of have to remain eternally sceptical of all possibilities in the "session credits" line of "work."
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« Reply #557 on: February 18, 2006, 09:42:33 AM »

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And why bother to plant seeds of doubt with Brian's memory on this topic of Little Pad?

Just considering all the angles.  The steel on Little Pad seems basic enough for one of the Boys to handle, plus no Al on the AFMs.  I tend to believe that Al was there, as to me the Steel seems nuanced enough to be a pro.  But you kind of have to remain eternally sceptical of all possibilities in the "session credits" line of "work."

Too many angles?  Smiley

Not to sound cheeky here, but I doubt the Boys could have tuned the steel guitar the proper way without asking someone, let alone have played such a smooth and as you said "nuanced" slide part that remained perfectly in tune. That's the real bear on that instrument - intonation.

On a related note, the octave-slide "Theremin" line on the song Wild Honey sounds simple enough that I could teach any non-musician how to play it on Mike's "Ribbon Controller" in 30 minutes. Yet, they called in Paul Tanner, the pro,  to do that part. Probably for similar reasons as they called Vescovo to play that steel on Little Pad. Wink
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« Reply #558 on: February 18, 2006, 09:44:38 AM »

I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #559 on: February 18, 2006, 09:59:35 AM »

I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong[/i].

 Grin :D Smiley

A brilliantly witty response - Cheers! Your sense of humor on these boards is second to none, I mean that seriously.



(This post puts me at 19, I think your count is close to 40.)
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« Reply #560 on: February 18, 2006, 10:37:55 AM »

Who are the girls that sing "won..won..wonderful?" on the SSmiley verison?
this part always thru me. it's a little out of tune but not much...a very different arrangement


Was this more Carl than Brian's arrangements on Smiley?
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Jason
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« Reply #561 on: February 18, 2006, 10:39:31 AM »

Smiley's arrangements reek of Brian Wilson's hand. The organ-based arrangements was his idea.
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« Reply #562 on: February 18, 2006, 10:59:03 AM »

you answered half of my question, Doc.

who are the girls.....
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Jason
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« Reply #563 on: February 18, 2006, 11:00:50 AM »

The wives.
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mike8902
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« Reply #564 on: February 18, 2006, 11:41:52 AM »

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Two different artists there....

Of course. I know that. I think rolling stone magazine picked those as the best songs of all time on two different polls.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #565 on: February 18, 2006, 11:48:30 AM »

Are you sure it's girls and not a speeded up  or altered tape a la She's Going Bald?
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« Reply #566 on: February 18, 2006, 12:10:33 PM »

This has been nagging me for some time now, and I guess this is the right thread to address it.  There was an interview with Alan done around the time of Smiley recording, where he says something to the effect of "we recorded a song all in Hawaiian and it's the best thing we've ever done."  Can anybody site the date or provide the exact quote?  I used to assume he was talking about "Worms", but obviously that song had lyrics in English written for it.  Could he have been talking about "Hawaiian Song" (of which the beautiful wordless harmonies were later grafted onto "Little Pad"?)


Interesting progression from "Worms" >> "Little Pad" >> "Diamond Head".  Some of my very favorite stuff Brian has ever done. 
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« Reply #567 on: February 18, 2006, 12:15:02 PM »

This has been nagging me for some time now, and I guess this is the right thread to address it.  There was an interview with Alan done around the time of Smiley recording, where he says something to the effect of "we recorded a song all in Hawaiian and it's the best thing we've ever done."  Can anybody site the date or provide the exact quote?  I used to assume he was talking about "Worms", but obviously that song had lyrics in English written for it.  Could he have been talking about "Hawaiian Song" (of which the beautiful wordless harmonies were later grafted onto "Little Pad"?)


Interesting progression from "Worms" >> "Little Pad" >> "Diamond Head".  Some of my very favorite stuff Brian has ever done. 

I think those quotes are somewhere in the "discussion"-thread of Smiley Smile in the Review-Section of this board.

But what is "Hawaiian song"? Never heard about it. Was it recorded during Smile? Maybe someone could PM me some "infos" ?
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« Reply #568 on: February 18, 2006, 12:17:53 PM »

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Two different artists there....

Of course. I know that. I think rolling stone magazine picked those as the best songs of all time on two different polls.
No, no, one's the best song of all time, the other one's the second best song of all time.
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« Reply #569 on: February 18, 2006, 12:37:44 PM »

[
Not to sound cheeky here, but I doubt the Boys could have tuned the steel guitar the proper way without asking someone, let alone have played such a smooth and as you said "nuanced" slide part that remained perfectly in tune. That's the real bear on that instrument - intonation.


Lennon burned it up on "For You Blue"!

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« Reply #570 on: February 18, 2006, 12:38:32 PM »

But what is "Hawaiian song"? Never heard about it. Was it recorded during Smile? Maybe someone could PM me some "infos" ?


Recorded June 19-21, 1967 at Brian's home studio.  A section of this (I'm assuming the wordless stuff) was later added to "Little Pad", but the complete recording remains unheard.  Musicians include Al, Brian, Carl and Dennis.  As H mentioned, Charles Berghofer also was listed on the session on the 21st.


I'm gonna go hunt for some quotes now.
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« Reply #571 on: February 18, 2006, 12:45:40 PM »

I could teach a baby to be a second engineer, but Brian insisted on Winston Wong.

Aside from the one "Sloop" vocal session we know about, has anyone discovered other sessions Mr. Wong assisted on?

Itriguing subject, the whole "second engineer" (aka "assistant engineer", aka "tape operator").  
Although Abbey Road had 'em pretty much at the start of the Beatles' recording career, I'm guessing independents like Western and Gold Star didn't until later.  Listening to the Beach Boys' session tapes from the 3-track era, it seems that Chuck, for instance, is rolling and queing the tape himself.  Maybe they brought the tape ops in when they went to 4-track?  Does anyone know?  Also, according to the Preiss book, Phil Kaye (whom I saw a recent picture of a few years back in one of those recording magazines like Mix) and Jim Lockert did some work on "Pet Sounds"....could they have been assisting Chuck or Bo David?  Or maybe they did some vocal or mixing sessions that we don't have documentation for...?

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« Reply #572 on: February 18, 2006, 12:58:27 PM »

Well looks like Alan Boyd already answered my question in a previous thread:

Alan, do we know about the following tracks?
"Good News" (06.11.67)
"Hawaiian Song" (06.21.67)
"Good Time Mama" (06.26.67)
"Untitled #2" (07.06.67)
The only thing I've been able to deduce (via the Badman book) is that part of
"Hawaiian Song" ended up in "Little Pad".
Has any of this stuff ever been described in detail by Brad Elliott or one of the
upper echelon researchers? I love Smiley and am totally intregued that there
might be some bona-fide outtakes from those sessions.

I've heard the HAWAIIAN SONG - it's the tracking session for a section of
LITTLE PAD. Haven't heard those other Smiley Smile session tapes, though.
Alan


Turns out the quote from Alan (Jardine) was earlier than I expected too.  The inference that it was sung in Hawaiian was actually the interviewer's, who must have been referencing "Do You Like Worms".

Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966
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« Reply #573 on: February 18, 2006, 12:59:39 PM »

Are you sure it's girls and not a speeded up  or altered tape a la She's Going Bald?

I had been told by a very credible source that it was a sped up tape, but one of our homely scholars here (forget who) told me it was in fact Marilyn and Annie Wilson.
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« Reply #574 on: February 18, 2006, 01:13:06 PM »

One more tidbit I stumbled upon while reading Badman.  "During a 1968 interview for US Earth News Radio, Brian says that the Beach Boys almost broke up for good over the decision not to release 'Surf's Up' now."  By the word "now", Badman is apparently referring to around the time of the Inside Pop special (April 1967).  This raises the following questions:

-- How "complete" would a mid-1967 version of "Surf's Up" have been?

-- What would they have released it as; an album track or a 45?

-- Was there any consideration towards including it on Smiley Smile?  Would they have gone with the full studio version in such a case, or re-cut it a la "Wonderful" and "Windchimes"?  (Maybe just the Brian solo version with some harmonies added?)

-- The critical question:  Who was for or against releasing it?  If Brian wanted it released, who could stop him?  (I realize I'm drifting into "the thread" territory-- sorry!)


I've never seen this quote referenced before in any thread, but it seems critical.  All I've ever heard before is that the "vocal sessions (for 'Surf's Up') had gone very badly, " but the band almost breaking up over whether or not to release it?  Isn't that something of a bombshell?  Huh
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