Smiley Smile

[Jason]

The original post was harsh.

[the captain]

Out of curiosity, why was "younger generations" in quotation marks? Are they not actually younger? Are you being ironic when you say younger generations, thus meaning the older generations? Hmm...

Anyway, I think that entire sentiment (and maybe Jason's response) comes down to the same old, somewhat tired debate between generations.

I think both older, original fans and new ones are necessary. Young fans can't ever quite understand a band on its original level, in its original context. They can read, or see documentaries, etc., but those are filtered through someone else's view. If you weren't there, you missed the original context, period. Younger fans, though, are able to do something else that's equally important in the criticism of music, and that's the exact opposite: hear the music out of context. They have more of an ability to be objective, to remove the Beatles from Beatlemania, to take away the media of this band or that, to leave the happy, drug-hazed flower power in the dirt and listen to the music on its merits.

The funny thing is, especially with a band so past its prime, sorely lacking in any real widespread, serious commercial acclaim the past X years, that fans argue about how one should best like them, as opposed to just being glad somebody else does.

[Jason]

I agree wholeheartedly, Luther.

The younger fans play a very important part in Beach Boys fandom, they can get their friends into the music. It's worked with me and a few of my friends. More younger fans is better than no younger fans to carry the torch.

[the captain]

In fact, it's younger fans who are absolutely necessary to 1) continue to guarantee ongoing sales; and 2) bring fresh vitality to the listening experience, keeping the band from being seen as the oldies act the touring version has long since become. BRI shouldn't pander, or forget about the people who actually shelled out the $(X) for Sunflower the first time around (all 15 people who bought it...), but neither should the organization--or the original fans--ignore or criticize those people who are discovering this music as NEW music.

It's this phenomenon, largely, that keeps the Beatles planted solidly in the realm of legendary. Yes, yes, they were supremely popular at the time. And they created a phenomenon that nobody else did, or has (arguably...I certainly don't have the facts to back that up). But that every single generation of new fans "discovers" the Beatles, and takes a different angle (hence "Pepper" as the unquestioned best album for a while...followed by the rougher-edged white album as the best...followed by the song-oriented "Rubber Soul," etc.), makes them essential for everyone, all the time.

Failure for new fans to continually find and make their own the Beach Boys has already hurt them, probably several times over. Why leave them on the oldies stations? Why criticize young fans because you think their motives impure?

(This has been fun. I don't even know if anyone disagrees. I'm just ranting. But now I am going to go read a book. Have fun tearing me a new one in my absence, if you'd like, or fighting amongst yourselves. I'll be back later to survey the carnage.)

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

The Beatles seemingly always had amazing publicity that only encouraged the peoples reception to the group.

30 years after the band ended there's still a new book released every .4 seconds documenting events that were written in every other book.

Keeping their name present through the years is a sure way to always attract consistent sales in the future.

Now consider the Oldies stations on the radio. You've got 50% of the music on there that is considered (and sometimes is) so cheesy and unhip or whatever, and you'll not find books or writings about them in mainstream stores.

"The Beatles Are Coming!"  vs.  "I Know Brian's Dad".

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Is it possible to make 'psych' music, without the use of drugs?

YES!
See the sunshine-pop movement, e.g. Free Design, Cowsills, etc.

[Beckner]

Last I knew Lovestein is 25 so I dont get it.

[the captain]

Doesn't matter how old he is. It's the argument itself.

[Jason]

I dunno Luther...if he's indeed 25, then why would he trash his own generation? Makes no sense to me.

[the captain]

It still wouldn't change the argument. If I came on here and said men should be exterminated, it doesn't matter that I am one. My position deserves to be argued against.

[Jason]

Men are vain, greedy, brutal assholes who have just about ruined this planet...

Ahhhhh we love you Mr. Carlin.

[the captain]

Dear Mr. Carlin,

I actually don't love you. I do find you somewhat amusing.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Signed,
Luther

[Daniel S.]

Yeah, I'm 25.

I wasn't saying screw the young folk. What I was saying was trying to make the Beach Boys look "trendy" so people will give other albums, besides Pet Sounds, a chance is a complete insult to the band and Brian Wilson.

And there are a lot of posers who won't pretend to "like" something unless it's been labeled "hip" by their lame brethren. And after they bash the Beach Boys for not being cool they go and put on their favorite emo band. God knows they're not lame. 

[Jason]

Yeah, I'm 25.

I wasn't saying screw the young folk. What I was saying was trying to make the Beach Boys look "trendy" so people will give other albums, besides Pet Sounds, a chance is a complete insult to the band and Brian Wilson.

But weren't they already trendy back in the early 60s?

[Daniel S.]

I don't know if music that was commercially succesful was considered trendy.

[Daniel S.]

I dunno Luther...if he's indeed 25, then why would he trash his own generation? Makes no sense to me.

I hate my generation.

Why don't you all just ffffffff fade away.

[the captain]

And there are a lot of posers who won't pretend to "like" something unless it's been labeled "hip" by their lame brethren.

Sad but true.

[Cam Mott]

I was listening to the SortaStereo version of Smiley and wondering again how Smiley gets held up as an example of formula, safer, more commercial music. Fall Breaks, off melody woodwinds, odd ball percussion, minimalism....?

Another thing, how is Smiley less esoteric lyricwise:  What is the meaning of "Remember the day, remember the night, all day long. Whistle in"?  Remember what day, why, forget the day and night at night? Why? Whistle in what? Why? Has what to do with remembering the day or night?

[Mitchell]

I don't think anyone considers Smiley Smile "safer" or "formula". And we know where the discussion of "what were they thinking?" leads. I wish someone would talk to Brian and Mike and the rest of the guys about it.

That said, Smiley is miles more complex than people think, which is part of the brilliance.

[Daniel S.]

What did Mike Love think about Smiley? Has he given any interviews about how Smiley came to be?

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Mike said somewhere that he cared not about the music but for the lyrics to be understandable and relatable to their main fan base. He said he encouraged creativity music-wise and with all that but always wanted some safe lyrics for the kids.

[Don't Back Down]

I think what I hate most about this is the part after the lines "She belongs there left with her liberty never known as a non-believer" section, I don't like the "won-won-won-wonderful" sounds like kids are singing it, aside from that I think I can stand the album. I enjoy "Gettin' Hungry", "Little Pad", but I enjoy "He Gives Speeches" more than "She's Goin' Bald" lyric wise, I enjoy the melody and rhythm.

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

I think what I hate most about this is the part after the lines "She belongs there left with her liberty never known as a non-believer" section, I don't like the "won-won-won-wonderful" sounds like kids are singing it, aside from that I think I can stand the album. I enjoy "Gettin' Hungry", "Little Pad", but I enjoy "He Gives Speeches" more than "She's Goin' Bald" lyric wise, I enjoy the melody and rhythm.

"He Gives Speeches" has to be one of the worst things in the whole SMiLE Sessions era. I always imagined it to be sung with a snarl that none of those guys had. Something raspy and cold like Lennon's vocal on "I Am The Walrus". Possibly Brian's most boring an unemotional vocal (though I suppose this was in relation to the words). The only thing that saves it is the hiigh parts/handclaps/and the great sounding drums.

[Mitchell]

I really like HGS, myself.

I also really like the women singing "won-won wonderful"... It has a really cool vibe, even if it's kinda creepy.

[Jason]

I also really like the women singing "won-won wonderful"... It has a really cool vibe, even if it's kinda creepy.

That sounds like a sped-up tape, or a bunch of women with really annoying voices.