50th Anniversary, The SMiLE box, the reunion, new material and things to come

[The Heartical Don]

I think he may have had visions of me petitioning to get Lady Ga Ga up on stage with them or something.

Don't knock the GaGa, she's the rare pop star in modern times who knows what she's talking about.

Eh, Dick, she actually can talk, I mean, produce decipherable strings of words?

[Mike's Beard]

I think he may have had visions of me petitioning to get Lady Ga Ga up on stage with them or something.

Don't knock the GaGa, she's the rare pop star in modern times who knows what she's talking about.

Great, I now of visions of her and Mike doing a raunchy cover of "Summer of Love" at the concert!

[Jason]

Eh, Dick, she actually can talk, I mean, produce decipherable strings of words?

Dude, I saw an interview with her on Oprah (of all shows), and she clearly out-talked and outwitted Oprah. I would argue it's not too hard to outwit Oprah, but Lady GaGa left her in the dust. We can disagree on her music (I don't love it, but it's something to shake your ass to), but she does have a fresh perspective on things and she does have some interesting things to say. I would argue that that is the reason she was completely shut out at the Grammy Awards, because the Grammy folks don't like artists who say stuff they don't like, or, God forbid, think for themselves.

[Bicyclerider]

While Capitol has a claim on the SMile sessions because they paid for them, Brian and BRI have physical possession of the tapes and Capitol would not release the sessions (and cannot, because they don't physically have them) without the artists' permission.  That would include I would think the surviving members of the group who perform on the tapes as well, Mike and Al.  If Brian signed off on a Smile box, Capitol might go ahead and release it over the objections of Mike and Al, but I doubt it, especially since Mike has proven himself litigation happy.

As long as Mike gets a cut, I'm sure he would go along with a release.

[The Heartical Don]

Eh, Dick, she actually can talk, I mean, produce decipherable strings of words?

Dude, I saw an interview with her on Oprah (of all shows), and she clearly out-talked and outwitted Oprah. I would argue it's not too hard to outwit Oprah, but Lady GaGa left her in the dust. We can disagree on her music (I don't love it, but it's something to shake your ass to), but she does have a fresh perspective on things and she does have some interesting things to say. I would argue that that is the reason she was completely shut out at the Grammy Awards, because the Grammy folks don't like artists who say stuff they don't like, or, God forbid, think for themselves.

Hmmm... thanks, I did not know that. I am a fan now.

[Cam Mott]

As long as Brian got all the cut, I'm sure he did go along with a release.

I know...I apologize...no group hug here I guess.

[The Shift]

Why can't they put it out to raise funds for Haiti or something? Ease our consciences at spending all that dough on music we already have, and quieten any tears about how big each band member's cut should be.

Bruce J talked about putting a box together for UNICEF back in the 80s (though it asn't his baby to play with really) so there might be sympathy in some quarters for such a plot.

[Dunderhead]

Honestly at this point I'd just like them to clean out the vaults. It would be nice if they put out two disc versions of all the albums. I'd like to see stereo mixes of the early albums, nonalbum tracks like The Little Girl I Once Knew, and all the still bootlegged/unreleased and unbootlegged/unreleased tracks out there. Just clean out the vaults I say, put Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again out there, officially release Looking Down The Coast. It would be nice if they just gave the whole recorded output the deluxe treatment and released it all as a big box set like The Beatles did last year.

[donald]

The entire output of the Beach Boys would be a much larger box than the Beatles. 

  I think a new box is in order.  The 93 box could easily be replaced and would sell well....IMO....that is id people are still buying CD's.  I bought the 2nd Byrds box and listen to it almost exclusively over the first one.

Add to that, a SMiLE set of some kind, and a new DVD career retrospective with a combination of the best of the existing footage along with unreleased footage....say of family movies, Billy H material, and so on.  Surely the BW birthday with Macca isn't the only party ever filmed.

And I want Merchandise!  Good merchandise.  I want a quality t shirt, license plate, and bumperstickers with the Coca Cola style logo.  The Mike and Bruce stuff has too many cheap looking car and surf designs and Brian's stuff usually ends up looking goofy.....they are buried in my t shirt drawer.

Remember the great BB t shirts of the 70's and early eighties?

I would love a reunion but I'm afraid I'd be disappointed with the inevitable compromise by committee.  But surely Mike and Brian could guest with each other a couple of times?

[Pretty Funky]

I would think Mike, Al and Bruce would be  for a release of any SMiLE tapes to compare, better or worse, with BWPS.

[The Heartical Don]

'Mike Love Presents The Real Smile'?

[Cam Mott]

As far as I can tell the Boys have always wanted SMiLE to be released by the group and even took the initiative to get Brian on board to release some of it and otherwise have been waiting around on Brian. I think that is part of what turns me off to BWPS, the Boys have been waiting for the time Brian gets on board to get it out and when he does in a big way, they are cut out all together [I presume] and sort of have their noses rubbed in it by hacking their songwriting from one of their songs.

Mike didn't have his finest human hour in his suit after BWPS but Brian, to me, didn't have his finest human hour in BWPS the album.

[The Heartical Don]

As far as I can tell the Boys have always wanted SMiLE to be released by the group and even took the initiative to get Brian on board to release some of it and otherwise have been waiting around on Brian. I think that is part of what turns me off to BWPS, the Boys have been waiting for the time Brian gets on board to get it out and when he does in a big way, they are cut out all together [I presume] and sort of have their noses rubbed in it by hacking their songwriting from one of their songs.

Mike didn't have his finest human hour in his suit after BWPS but Brian, to me, didn't have his finest human hour in BWPS the album.

Hmmm... you raise a moral point here, Cam. I can see where you're standing, I can emphatize. The Boys worked hard on Smile. It got aborted. 37 years later, it's released, but in an altered fashion, and Brian reaps all the praise.

But I don't think one should accuse Brian of being calculating, or having some sort of agenda. As the co-creator of Smile, and intellectual owner of the project, he was fully entitled to finish the project with his then-collaborator, and to play it live.

[Dr. Tim]

I think that is part of what turns me off to BWPS, the Boys have been waiting for the time Brian gets on board to get it out and when he does in a big way, they are cut out all together [I presume] and sort of have their noses rubbed in it by hacking their songwriting from one of their songs.

This was hinted at in the BWPS Final Verdict thread too.  So everyone's on the same page:  Mike did not lose any writing credit on GV, you can check the CD metadata, and of course the LP label.   He couldn't lose credit even if there was a plan to try.  It just would not have happened.  GV is a finished, published composition and even if a whole new lyric was substituted he would keep his co-author credit.  What happened of course is Asher's scrub verses were used too, resulting in a third co-credit.  I think Andrew pointed out they forgot to nail down Asher's OK before doing that, and had to scramble a bit.   Yes yes I know, the record cover does not give Mike or Asher a name-check; nor does it give name-checks to the Crows, or the authors of "I Wanna Be Around", "OMP" and "Sunshine".  But legally, the correct credits are given, somewhere, and the publishers were duly paid.

So whether Mike is aware of it or not - or likes it or not  - his name is on Smile, specifically, BWPS, and always will be.

[The Shift]

I think what Brian did with BWPS was the right thing to do at the time, as far as resurrecting the project goes, whether you regard it as the last word on SMiLE or not.

If he'd got the BBs back together to finish it, the result would have had the intellectual standing, taste and quality of another Stars and Stripes project* – nice but artistically void, an essentially pointless – and we'd all be dissing it to death right now, and crying into our mugs of tea about "what could have been".

* Anyone comes on and says that's their favourite album and I'll make 'em change my 11-month-old's next nappy**.

** That's "my 11-month-old's nappy", not "my 11-month-old nappy"***

*** I don't wear nappies, okay?

[The Heartical Don]

I think what Brian did with BWPS was the right thing to do at the time, as far as resurrecting the project goes, whether you regard it as the last word on SMiLE or not.

If he'd got the BBs back together to finish it, the result would have had the intellectual standing, taste and quality of another Stars and Stripes project* – nice but artistically void, an essentially pointless – and we'd all be dissing it to death right now, and crying into our mugs of tea about "what could have been".

* Anyone comes on and says that's their favourite album and I'll make 'em change my 11-month-old's next nappy**.

** That's "my 11-month-old's nappy", not "my 11-month-old nappy"***

*** I don't wear nappies, okay?

Yep. And we would, drunk from anger and regret, agree on one issue: Brian should have finished the damn thing by himself and have recorded it with his own band. He'd even might have considered doing it live, although that's very far-fetched...

[Cam Mott]

Sure, well within rights, nobody cheated of songwriting credit, still a great accomplishment, glad for Brian et al, etc., etc., BUT still a chicken dauber move toward the rest of the group to me.

[Mike's Beard]

What always bugs the crap out of me is when over zealous fans bash Mike over Smile. "Mike hated Smile! He's the reason it got shitcanned back in '67!" "Mikes 's criticism of the project caused Brian to have a breakdown and lose confidence in his abilities!"... and so on. What people seem to forget is that Mike WAS a member of the group and was perfectly entitled to voice his opinion (some might even argue obliged) on the material being produced in the studio. He was also fronting the band live and quite rightly had concerns about whether the existing live band could reproduce on stage the new songs. Now, I love Smile and think Mike was wrong but right or wrong it was HIS prerogative to make.  I also wonder if I would have readily agreed with everything Brian was doing if I'd been in Mike's shoes back then.

[oldsurferdude]

What always bugs the crap out of me is when over zealous fans bash Mike over Smile. "Mike hated Smile! He's the reason it got shitcanned back in '67!" "Mikes 's criticism of the project caused Brian to have a breakdown and lose confidence in his abilities!"... and so on. What people seem to forget is that Mike WAS a member of the group and was perfectly entitled to voice his opinion (some might even argue obliged) on the material being produced in the studio. He was also fronting the band live and quite rightly had concerns about whether the existing live band could reproduce on stage the new songs. Now, I love Smile and think Mike was wrong but right or wrong it was HIS prerogative to make.  I also wonder if I would have readily agreed with everything Brian was doing if I'd been in Mike's shoes back then.

Perhaps Brian didn't do everything that met with Mike's blessings however Mike's shoes as well as pockets were full of cash because Brian did what he did-the Lovester did well because of his cousin. He still does.

[Jason]

I always come back to this one conclusion regarding the whole Brian blaming Michael thing for Smile.

sociopath [(soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-uh-path)]

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.

[Mike's Beard]

But don't you find it a little hypercritical that whenever the two are feuding that's always the first shot fired across the bow - "You ruined Smile!" and yet at other times Brian will acknowledge that there were many reasons it didn't happen?

[Jason]

hypercritical

Eh? I've heard of being hypocritical, but what the hell is being hypercritical? Is that like being hypocritical on a caffeine binge?

[Mike's Beard]

That would be my spell checker not doing it's job.  Shall I write it on the blackboard correctly 50 times or something?

[Jason]

That would be my spell checker not doing it's job.  Shall I write it on the blackboard correctly 50 times or something?

50 times, yes. And then another 100 times, write "Brian killed Smile."

[A Million Units In Jan!]

What always bugs the crap out of me is when over zealous fans bash Mike over Smile. "Mike hated Smile! He's the reason it got shitcanned back in '67!" "Mikes 's criticism of the project caused Brian to have a breakdown and lose confidence in his abilities!"... and so on. What people seem to forget is that Mike WAS a member of the group and was perfectly entitled to voice his opinion (some might even argue obliged) on the material being produced in the studio. He was also fronting the band live and quite rightly had concerns about whether the existing live band could reproduce on stage the new songs. Now, I love Smile and think Mike was wrong but right or wrong it was HIS prerogative to make.  I also wonder if I would have readily agreed with everything Brian was doing if I'd been in Mike's shoes back then.

Well yeah, NOW it's obvious that there were other things involved. I think that quite a few of the BB fans have realized by now that  it wasn't just the 'Mike Love Hates SMiLE' show. The problem, though, is something that was brought up in another link somewhere a while back; that there had been alot of emphasis in the past on the negativity of the BB's toward Brian's 'New Music', and it was pretty much a one-sided story.
I'll tell you something. When I first got into SMiLE was when I really first got into the BB's. I had liked them before, but I didn't get them until I heard PS and SMiLE. So I started looking for whatever books or articles, documentaries I could. And most of them painted the same picture. That Brian was on the edge of the new horizon of music, he was creating stuff nobody had done yet. Everyone around him loved it. It was going to ruin The Beatles and The Beach Boys-with Genius Brian Wilson at the helm-were going to take over the world. Then, the BB's came home, heard the music, and made life a living hell for the poor Genius. They broke his heart and his spirit, and he had to SCRAP it.
Well, as we have all talked about before, the story goes a lot deeper than that, and there's blame to go around for EVERYONE. Brian, The BB's, The Vosse Posse, Capitol Records. It's a deep story, and we'll never probably know what the final straw was for Brian.