About Making Music.

[hypehat]

It won't be until sometime later this year - they have to sort out everything else like actors, finishing the script, etc, including people to sing it as my voice is not strong enough. It's a weird plot - a man finds out he has split personalities, which manifests itself as a doo-wop group.   

You're a braver man than I, although I have been working my way up to pickng apart BW's harmonies. It's testing the noodle, but i do like the challenge. Those are good songs, btw! Should have picked up on you dudes earlier 

[kwan_dk]

- a man finds out he has split personalities, which manifests itself as a doo-wop group.   

Oh man, I'd love to see this. That has to be the most wacky, yet brillant idea for a film I've heard about! 

And thank you for the kind words about our music...

[the captain]

Superass rough draft with unmixed track and scratch vocal just to flesh it out. http://www.sendspace.com/file/guqbm3

[hypehat]

Nice as usual, Luther - The chorus is ace  Hows the productivity these days?

My latest musical endeavour - 9 segues for the production of The Importance Of Earnest I'm going to be in over the weekend. Nice if only as experience for me to do the whole 'variations on a theme' thing. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zfr8zrj4bszftz4

[the captain]

Nice as usual, Luther - The chorus is ace  Hows the productivity these days?

Thanks. I am just getting going. Began this Sunday or Monday, I think it was, and will finish it up before long. Four more to go in short order.

[the captain]

Spent my post-work late afternoon working on another new recording. Like the last one, it's a silly childhood story with no real business being a song (but I think that's the fun ... and hey, it's not like anybody has to pay for them!). I really had a quick and fun time coming up with a bassline, and the acoustic guitars were simple. But now I'm not really sure what I want to do with it. There is a prominent octaved piano melody in the intro (and then that figure when it is repeated), but I can't decide whether and how to work it in otherwise. I hate to have something that prominent and then just remove it the rest of the tune, but it seems to be redundant or too busy when I add parts. I'll take a fresh stab this weekend.

[hypehat]

I shouldn't worry about that, but I'd have to hear it. In my experience, what usually gets me playing songs over and over are bits only repeated once or twice. Does it sound busy if you just stick it after the chorus?

Just had the following exchange.

Friend: so I'm looking for piano players for a BA animation project, and you make music, right?

Me: Yes, but i'm no piano player.

Friend: So you'll do it?

Oh well, I suppose it keeps me busy 

[the captain]

I think I found a workaround for my arrangement problem: I kept the primary piano part I wanted in and a going to mix down the other parts; then, I doubled part of the piano on electric guitar, with that meandering off its own way at other times. So I can really feature the bit I liked but then it naturally goes off into different directions as the song moves on, as opposed to abrupt new instrument or part. I think the instrumental track is 85% done (not counting mix) with vocals coming up before long. But now it's off to see the Fiery Furnaces.

[hypehat]

Have fun! and then post it!

[the captain]

Up next is going to be a tune called "Guilty Too," which I think of as a classic rock sounding thing, but I don't know that things sound to people the way I describe them to myself. (Turns out the references I have in my head don't always relate directly to whatever it is I am doing, more as an idea, a word, the sound of one small thing, not the song at large, etc.) So anyway, I am about to import Adam's drums. Tonight or tomorrow morning I'll get those together, then it's time for tracking.

[the captain]

I was working on the above on Sunday. Unfortunately, we were in our third consecutive day of heavy thunderstorms, and while I got a piano and an acoustic guitar track done, I also had to keep stopping because of REALLY loud rain and thunder. It was insane. (There is still an audible thundercrash at one point of the piano because I was sick of stopping and starting.) So anyway, I'm still at it. Just slow going. (Doesn't help that I don't have a bass line in mind. I thought it would come quickly, but it didn't.)

[hypehat]

Dude, not only was I loving I Struck A Nerve.... i found myself listening to To Spite Your Face and When You Lie afterwards... anf they still rock! 


Work on my latest fairytale project gathers apace. Here is an exceedingly rough voiced demo, to be sung by a girl and placed in context obvs. I am making these demos for the girl writing the prose around them, but figured it'd be nice for someone to hear.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2w29r2om1dbrlzr

[the captain]

Thanks. And downloading now.

[the captain]

It's nice. I don't think I will be shattering any dreams when I say that what you posted didn't floor me. It very much has the feel of a good piece of music intended to further a performance. And the music certainly can be brought back throughout a performance. I think it is successful.

[hypehat]

Yeah, my voice was definitely shot, I was a little hungover, and couldn't read my own writing and kept turning the page, so the performance can definitely be improved

[the captain]

Spent the past two hours or so working on the aforementioned track. Sadly, at least half of that was for a single rhythm guitar part that, once I got down cold and did a great take (if I do say so myself  ), I listened back and cut out about 80% of it: just wasn't going to fit--was getting too busy. Also got a bass part I'm happy with, some other simple little rhythm guitar things, and a banjo. Vocals (which is going to include quite a bit of backgrounds, so that will be time consuming) are all that's left. And mixing, of course.

[the captain]

Thinking about getting started on the 4th of the 5 songs I have more or less ready to go (i.e., having Adam's drumming). This next one is "Waste Not, Want," and it's quite a bit more aggressive than my usual songs.

[the captain]

Got drunk and evening's plans were canceled. That means I am seriously thinking about tackling the aforementioned tune now. But not about tackling it seriously. I think I need to pick up some wine. Then I might get after it.

[hypehat]

Intoxication is a blessing and a curse.... I find i tend to write better after a beer, but before long i get distracted, which doesn't tend to happen when i write 'dry'.

[the captain]

...a world where everyone with $2,000 worth of equipment and five hundred bucks in the bank is putting
out songs. The death of the long play album isn't helping much either.

Didn't want to further derail vintagemusic's thread with discussion of this, but I did want to talk about it. Namely, I don't think either of those two things (virtually anyone can release music; the album is losing ground as the dominant way to buy and hear music) is a bad thing at all. (I didn't even bother with the concept album quote, because frankly I abhor most of those.) What do you all think about these things? Is the music world better if we have stronger gatekeepers? Is an album the preferred method of delivery, as opposed to the individual song?

[vintagemusic]

...a world where everyone with $2,000 worth of equipment and five hundred bucks in the bank is putting
out songs. The death of the long play album isn't helping much either.

Didn't want to further derail vintagemusic's thread with discussion of this, but I did want to talk about it. Namely, I don't think either of those two things (virtually anyone can release music; the album is losing ground as the dominant way to buy and hear music) is a bad thing at all. (I didn't even bother with the concept album quote, because frankly I abhor most of those.) What do you all think about these things? Is the music world better if we have stronger gatekeepers? Is an album the preferred method of delivery, as opposed to the individual song?

Before the album emerged as the dominant form, we had plenty of history of the single song being dominant.
So I would say the obvious answer is  it's better for people who want to concentrate on single songs. Clearly
in an album context you can do more and say more. But with Brian Wilson's pocket symphony of Good Vibrations
we see just how great, and how many twists and turns you can take in three and a half minutes.

As far as a gatekeeper (record companies) certainly in my view, they deserve a lot of the blame for the state of
the music business. However changing technology, tastes, and the worst economy since the 1930's doesn't help.
I think it's very telling, that 40-50 year old music by the Beatles, or Beach Boys or Pink FLoyd can dominate the charts
on Itunes or Amazon a half century after release. I think SMiLE may do very well, and one reason is because many
people prefer the sound to most of todays contemporary groups. Every era can't be a golden age, for whatever
reason we have been for 10-20 years in a dismal age for popular music. Certainly their are triumphs in recent music
history but I don't see anyone who compares with The Beatles, Beach Boys, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, The WHO,

There is so much music from so many venues by so many artists, and it's all recorded mechanically, everyone has access to the same sounds, you know when Brian Wilson used the theremin on Good Vibrations, you couldn't push a button, a guy had to
come in and play in pitch, getting sounds was part of the art form and arranging technique, thats mostly a lost art
everybody has the same sounds. We tried really hard on my last thing playing wooden coconuts and real drums
and weird little ukelele's and bailakas and whatever we could to get sounds. Tom Petty on Wildflowers uses all organic
sounding stuff. Dylan, Beach Boys, Beatles, Who Pink Floyd as soon as they come on you know who it is, even if
you never heard the song before. IT was much better if you could get airplay and a record deal before and some
commitment from the label, but now, there are like ten people that get a gold record and it used to be like 500
or a thousand. I Know famous people putting out records and selling like 800 copies. I'd say anything is better
than what we have now. What we have now is terrible for almost everybody. I think 40 year old re-issues make
more money than just about anything else. It's important to make a few bucks now and then to keep doing the
music. Otherwise it eventually comes to an end in your life as anything but an avocation.

[the captain]

I think we are diametrically opposite in everything. (Apparently other than liking beach boys music.) I don't believe in golden ages (or rather believe that every age is a golden one). I don't think we're in a dismal age at all.

[vintagemusic]

I think we are diametrically opposite in everything. (Apparently other than liking beach boys music.) I don't believe in golden ages (or rather believe that every age is a golden one). I don't think we're in a dismal age at all.

What??

You don't think the age of the Beach Boys, Beatles, Dylan in his prime, Pink FLoyd, Simon & Garfunkel, Janis Joplin
Hendrix, The WHO, STones, Byrds, CSNY, Steely Dan, Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead, Aerosmith, Elvis, was better
than what we have now? Hello ? what universe are you in ?


Music sales are down to a pittance,, hall of fame acts are scrapping to make a few bucks, record companies
are going belly up left and right, job layoffs in music have been horrendous, only a tiny handful of acts have
made money, and many of those aren't even musicians or songwriters, just rappers or packaged acts. Only
the EMI back catalogue of Beatles, Pink Floyd and Beach Boys, has staved off one of the four majors (EMI) from
going belly up, and they may still. And its not just the death of the record company, as we understood it, almost
no artists are making money, except for a lucky few vintage acts hitting the road with their oldies hits, U2
McCartney, Tom Petty, The WHO, Roger Waters has trouble selling out 500 seat theatres, as does Roger Daltrey
Ringo Starr, and most surviving hall of fame acts, how many seats does Al Jardine sell for a show ? Three Dog Night
plays amusment parkls and thats a good gig for them. They sold 50 Million records!  50 Million! and they play shows
on cruise boats with a buffett!

Look you must be a young guy, and young people being optimistic  about their own generation and music, is a good thing.
but the music business is like something that has been nearly killed by a plague, there is just no money in it for
most people that used to make a decent living. Just jackals cleaning the bones of the carcass. I personally believe that
just like the old record companies, the digital retailers get first looksee at the numbers and my personal belief is
they rip off the artists with fake numbers just as bad as the standard record companies usually did.

Mo Ostin where are ya! Come Back!

On the positive side, people with talent can market an album or single and record it with a very small investment
out of their own pocket that would have been impossible before  pro tools and downloads, so in that respect it is a good thing.

[Austin]

You don't think the age of the Beach Boys, Beatles, Dylan in his prime, Pink FLoyd, Simon & Garfunkel, Janis Joplin
Hendrix, The WHO, STones, Byrds, CSNY, Steely Dan, Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead, Aerosmith, Elvis, was better
than what we have now? Hello ? what universe are you in ?

So in the 20-30 years of music represented by the list above, you picked 16 successful artists. Which would be impressive if you disregard the hundreds of artists from the same time span, whose music has long since been forgotten to history, often deservedly.

I'll give you this: I don't know if we'll ever have another Beatles or Brian Wilson for the kind of music they made. But who's to say we won't discover some new way to capture or shape music? A few centuries of music history suggests we will; I doubt that a Chicago or New Orleans recording engineer from the 1910's could even fathom the possibilities available from equipment 50 years in the future.

Music sales are down to a pittance,, hall of fame acts are scrapping to make a few bucks, record companies
are going belly up left and right, job layoffs in music have been horrendous, only a tiny handful of acts have
made money, and many of those aren't even musicians or songwriters, just rappers or packaged acts.

In the words of Peter Venkman: cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!

I really like this quote from Mick Jagger:

But I have a take on that — people only made money out of records for a very, very small time. When The Rolling Stones started out, we didn’t make any money out of records because record companies wouldn’t pay you! They didn’t pay anyone!

Then, there was a small period from 1970 to 1997, where people did get paid, and they got paid very handsomely and everyone made money. But now that period has gone.

So if you look at the history of recorded music from 1900 to now, there was a 25 year period where artists did very well, but the rest of the time they didn’t.

Granted, I doubt Jagger is analyzing the industry in extreme detail, but I think his point is apt: a gargantuan, lucrative record industry is the exception, not the norm.

(Also, I love putting his name in the author thingy, as if he reads this board.)

Edit: This thread is awesome. Maybe I should post something of my own here; seems like a pretty constructive group.

[vintagemusic]

You're a pretty sharp cat Austin, and I don't disagree with you really. or Mick Jagger.
But it's those 25 years that people got paid, that represents (for the most part) the
golden age of pop. Hey Gershwin, Cole Porter, Hoagy Carmichael, There has always
been great stuff around, but if you like to play the four/four and write your own tunes
and make a little record out of it, it is a dismal time. You need a hit to be a draw, and
getting a hit with something inspired by Brian Wilson or The Beatles is almost impossible.
Especially if you're a white guy from America. Its All the chicks now, Lady Gaga or Amy Winehouse
or rap music or hip hop, just about everything I would rather rip my fingernails out than
listen to (Amy Winehouse excepted She's good)

I never did it for the money, and protools and download sales have made it possible for me
to release an album every few years on a small budget without support of a standard record
company. So there is good and bad in everything. I don't need to go begging to a label for a
couple hundred grand just to record ten songs. Ten songs they would supervise, cull. shape
and generally mess with.

Something else will emerge you are right of course.

Finally I would say this.. I think there is a symbiotic relationship between the great artists and albums
and their fans, the label, the times, the technological advances, and the management. Without Chuck Britz and
Larry Levine and the A&R people at Capitol, and response of the fans, would a Good Vibrations be possible?
I think great artists in part respond to the challenge and circumstance. Brian Wilson really wanted to outdo
the Beatles and vise versa in a type of collegiate rivalry. Without the label grooming these acts and backing them
for half a dozen albums at least, and the competition between acts, the notice of critics, Would John Lennon have
ever written Norwegian Wood or I am The Walrus without the system and paradigm that was in place. Don't you
need a George Martin and EMI and a six abum contract to get to that point. Is some marvelous protools gear and
microphones that mimic a U87 really enough?

Paul Simon once said "think too much"