Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[Roger Ryan]

I have a question about I Just Wasn't Made For These Times(the song). It's probably something that a lot of people here know, but it's just something that has bugged me. When Brian sings "sometimes I feel very sad", what is Mike(?) singing at the same time underneath Brian? I've never been able to make it out.

In case it wasn't the Spanish vocals you were asking about, the countervocal to "Sometimes I feel very sad" is reportedly "Can't find nothing I can put my heart and soul into" (although I will often hear this as "Don't know what my heart and soul are into"). And I believe it's Brian doing that vocal since his is the only voice heard on the song, right?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have a question about I Just Wasn't Made For These Times(the song). It's probably something that a lot of people here know, but it's just something that has bugged me. When Brian sings "sometimes I feel very sad", what is Mike(?) singing at the same time underneath Brian? I've never been able to make it out.

In case it wasn't the Spanish vocals you were asking about, the countervocal to "Sometimes I feel very sad" is reportedly "Can't find nothing I can put my heart and soul into" (although I will often hear this as "Don't know what my heart and soul are into"). And I believe it's Brian doing that vocal since his is the only voice heard on the song, right?

Taken from the Columbia tape log, of the seven vocal tracks on this song, one says 'group': the other six say 'Bryan'.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Such a memory loss isn't all that amazing. I mean, it's incredible that Brian even knows who he is when you consider all the drugs he took. And of course, although I remember that this story is true and that I read it somewhere, *I* can't remember where... and that's only 13.5 years ago. And I haven't taken a fraction of the drugs Brian did through the years...

MattB

Ummmm... box set released 1997... this is 2009... my math makes that 12, not 13 1/2. 

[Wirestone]

Except that the reporting of Brian's response and reaction were printed in successive Breakaway with Brian Wilson newsletters of 1996. So the 13 years is more accurate.

[Andrew G. Doe]

'Course - forgot it was supposed to be a 1996 release. Still got the promo cassettes from '96 somewhere.

[Chris Brown]

I have a question about I Just Wasn't Made For These Times(the song). It's probably something that a lot of people here know, but it's just something that has bugged me. When Brian sings "sometimes I feel very sad", what is Mike(?) singing at the same time underneath Brian? I've never been able to make it out.

In case it wasn't the Spanish vocals you were asking about, the countervocal to "Sometimes I feel very sad" is reportedly "Can't find nothing I can put my heart and soul into" (although I will often hear this as "Don't know what my heart and soul are into"). And I believe it's Brian doing that vocal since his is the only voice heard on the song, right?

Taken from the Columbia tape log, of the seven vocal tracks on this song, one says 'group': the other six say 'Bryan'.

Which all makes perfect sense (aside from the misspelling); the group sang the spanish backing vocals (and the harmony stack at the end, presumably), and Brian sang (and doubled) the three other lines ("sometimes I feel very sad," "can't find the right thing I can put my heart and soul into," and "people I know don't wanna be where I'm at") and obviously the lead. 

[Matt Bielewicz]

Funny, isn't it, how you remember some things accurately but not others — I knew I'd read that in 1996 and not 1997, but can't remember where it was that I read it! It may have been an edition of 'Breakaway...' from back then, yes — I was never a subscriber, but people used to post bits on-line and perhaps that was one of them (or were the newsletters even up in full at Brian's old site? I can't remember). So when I read that, that must have been after work was complete on the Pet Sounds box in 1995-6, but before it actually came out in 1997.

MattB

[metal flake paint]

I've always been curious about any other songs The Beach Boys performed during the New Year's Rockin' Eve ABCTV show, 1974. There is/was footage on Youtube of the band playing "Good Vibrations" (group) and "Darlin" (with Chicago). Carl, Al and Mike also provided harmonies on "Wishing You Were Here". Apparently "Surfer Girl" was played too although, to the best of my knowledge, footage of this has not yet surfaced.

A photo of the band taken at the show reveals Carl playing a 12-string guitar which he didn't use during "GV" or "Darlin'". I doubt that it's a shot of them playing "Surfer Girl" either as the tambourine seems out of place and Carl is standing back from his mic in a song which features full group vocals throughout.

This is purely my theory:

Al is upfront and seems to be singing lead. Carl and Al appear to be playing an A chord. Mike is on tambourine suggesting an uptempo number. In Concert features such a song which was transposed from its original key of C sharp to the key of A during this period: "Help Me Rhonda".

I also recall seeing a banjo resting on top of one of the amps. IIRC Al played the banjo at Wembley in 1975 and that concert included "California Saga/California" so is it possible they played that here too?

Cool performances by The Beach Boys (despite Dennis's absence) and ones that I hope would see legitimate release someday.

[smile-holland]

Nice theory, Loaf. I hope there's anyone that could tell more about it.

I've always been curious about any other songs The Beach Boys performed during the New Year's Rockin' Eve ABCTV show, 1974. There is/was footage on Youtube of the band playing "Good Vibrations" (group) and "Darlin" (with Chicago). Carl, Al and Mike also provided harmonies on "Wishing You Were Here". Apparently "Surfer Girl" was played too although, to the best of my knowledge, footage of this has not yet surfaced.

Footage of all 4 songs exists, and circulates among collectors. From time to time you'll see it on YouTube, but apparently those who own the copyrights of that broadcast keep a good eye on it...

[shelter]

Why is '409' (#76) on almost every Beach Boys hit compilation while 'Heroes And Villains' (#12) and 'Be True To Your School' (#6) are often missing?

Where does the story come from that The Beach Boys returned from Japan and found out about "all that weird new music" that Brian had been making, when the only things that Brian recorded during their absence was 'Let's Go Away For Awhile' (shouldn't be too weird for a band that had already released 'The Nearest Faraway Place' en 'Summer Means New Love'), 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' (probably the most "normal" song on the whole record) and the intro of 'You Still Believe In Me'?

- How could 'Pet Sounds' chart so (relatively) low in the US when it had more US top 40 hits than any other Beach Boys album before or since?

- Who compiled the 'Best Of The Beach Boys' LPs (from 1966/1967/1968) and what was he smoking at the time?

- Why didn't the band return to "the formula" when Brian stepped back in 1967?

[hypehat]

Why is '409' (#76) on almost every Beach Boys hit compilation while 'Heroes And Villains' (#12) and 'Be True To Your School' (#6) are often missing?

Where does the story come from that The Beach Boys returned from Japan and found out about "all that weird new music" that Brian had been making, when the only things that Brian recorded during their absence was 'Let's Go Away For Awhile' (shouldn't be too weird for a band that had already released 'The Nearest Faraway Place' en 'Summer Means New Love'), 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' (probably the most "normal" song on the whole record) and the intro of 'You Still Believe In Me'?

- How could 'Pet Sounds' chart so (relatively) low in the US when it had more US top 40 hits than any other Beach Boys album before or since?

- Who compiled the 'Best Of The Beach Boys' LPs (from 1966/1967/1968) and what was he smoking at the time?

- Why didn't the band return to "the formula" when Brian stepped back in 1967?

huh? You're a few years off with that one. and traditionally, instrumentals were filler/b-side material.

I imagine the lyrics to WIBN might have been a turn off.
Plus, just because the songs weren't recorded doesn't mean they hadn't been written. Brian probably played them to the group at his house.

I guess this also has been covered..... but was Pet Sounds really undermined by Capitol? I've read stories about them not sending out more copies to stores and whatnot, although these sound slightly spurious.

And i suppose they just didn't want to follow the same old schtick, although that doesn't explain Do It Again. I guess they got tired of it too, although a little too late.

Thats my guess, anyway.

[shelter]

huh? You're a few years off with that one.

You're right, of course. Slip of my mind.

[shelter]

I imagine the lyrics to WIBN might have been a turn off.
Plus, just because the songs weren't recorded doesn't mean they hadn't been written. Brian probably played them to the group at his house.

I don't see how the lyrics to WIBN could've been a problem. A year before the summer of love, they were singing "Gee, I wish we were old enough to get married so that we could finally sleep together". Must've sounded pretty conservative even for that time.

And besides that, to my ears there really isn't that much on 'Pet Sounds' that would've been terrible out of place on side B of 'Today!' - apart from maybe a few experimental things like the YSBIM intro or the "woo-woo machine" on IJWMFTT.

So what I'm really wondering is: were people really so worried about the actual sound of the slower songs on 'Pet Sounds', or was it just because there were so many of them? Imagine if side A of 'Today!' would've been identical to side B... I guess Brian would've gotten the same kind of resistance as he got with 'Pet Sounds'.

[hypehat]

The lyrics to WIBN are melancholy stuff. It's attached to an estatic arrangement which distracts from their emotional punch,  but still they're as sad as hell. The group/label wanted happier material, i'm guessing.

I can't picture a lot of Pet Sounds on Today - the arrangements are more complex, and the subject matter slightly more emotional too. But i get what you're saying.

I guess some just thought it was not what the public wanted. I'm not sure whether record buyers minded so much, or were that hostile to it - as you mentioned, Pet Sounds had more hits on it than their other albums.

[Jon Stebbins]

Why is '409' (#76) on almost every Beach Boys hit compilation while 'Heroes And Villains' (#12) and 'Be True To Your School' (#6) are often missing?

Where does the story come from that The Beach Boys returned from Japan and found out about "all that weird new music" that Brian had been making, when the only things that Brian recorded during their absence was 'Let's Go Away For Awhile' (shouldn't be too weird for a band that had already released 'The Nearest Faraway Place' en 'Summer Means New Love'), 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' (probably the most "normal" song on the whole record) and the intro of 'You Still Believe In Me'?

- How could 'Pet Sounds' chart so (relatively) low in the US when it had more US top 40 hits than any other Beach Boys album before or since?

- Who compiled the 'Best Of The Beach Boys' LPs (from 1966/1967/1968) and what was he smoking at the time?

- Why didn't the band return to "the formula" when Brian stepped back in 1967?

409 was the band's first "Car" hit...and it was a bigger hit than Surfin' Safari in some major markets across the U.S.

Pet Sounds charted relatively low because it didn't sell well enough to chart higher. LP charts are based on sales...singles charts are a mix of sales and radio play.

Someone at Capitol with no aesthetic skills.

The band didn't return to the "formula"...because Carl and Dennis (combined with Brian) had more leverage over direction than Mike...and the "formula' thing is mostly BS anyway.

[Nicko]

The band didn't return to the "formula"...because Carl and Dennis (combined with Brian) had more leverage over direction than Mike...and the "formula' thing is mostly BS anyway.

Is that true of 1967? I would have thought that Mike would have had more say than Dennis at that point as he was co-writing almost every song on Wild Honey. But the band hadn't recorded any cars or surfing songs for a while and Mike was probably happy to write songs about other subjects.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The band didn't return to the "formula"...because Carl and Dennis (combined with Brian) had more leverage over direction than Mike...and the "formula' thing is mostly BS anyway.

Is that true of 1967? I would have thought that Mike would have had more say than Dennis at that point as he was co-writing almost every song on Wild Honey. But the band hadn't recorded any cars or surfing songs for a while and Mike was probably happy to write songs about other subjects.

Yes, I found that interesting, too. I'm used to reading that Carl and particularly Dennis weren't taken seriously as composers, had their songs rejected, and ultimately lost out on most votes. I guess that happened when Brian began "to give" his vote to Mike.

[Jon Stebbins]

The band didn't return to the "formula"...because Carl and Dennis (combined with Brian) had more leverage over direction than Mike...and the "formula' thing is mostly BS anyway.

Is that true of 1967? I would have thought that Mike would have had more say than Dennis at that point as he was co-writing almost every song on Wild Honey. But the band hadn't recorded any cars or surfing songs for a while and Mike was probably happy to write songs about other subjects.

Yes, I found that interesting, too. I'm used to reading that Carl and particularly Dennis weren't taken seriously as composers, had their songs rejected, and ultimately lost out on most votes. I guess that happened when Brian began "to give" his vote to Mike.

I think SJS is confusing '67  with '76...I wasn't specifically talking about CW & DW's songs anyway, that would be irrelevant since neither had written much yet...but I was referring to aesthetic direction of the band. Also... I never said Dennis had more say than Mike in '67...he didn't. I said In 1967 Carl and Dennis(combined with Brian) had more say over the direction of the BB's than Mike. They did. Therefore if Mike really wanted to "return to the formula" he would have needed an ally like Brian or CW+DW to pull it off.  However, I also said that the "formula" thing is mostly BS anyway...meaning that none of them (including Mike) truly wanted to return to the formula. That's been hyped out of proportion. The orig. question was...why didn't they return to the formula when Brian receded in '67. Right? That question assumes Mike had the power and the desire to do this, since HE is the one always charged with wanting to return. But the answer is HE had neither.  I would have thought you guys could have gleaned that from what I wrote the first time...didn't expect to have to spell it out for you. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I would have thought you guys could have gleaned that from what I wrote the first time...didn't expect to have to spell it out for you. 

Sorry you had to "spell it out" for us, Jon. We'll try to do a better job next time at understanding you the first time, then we won't have to inconvenience you into "explaining" your thoughts.

[KokoMoses]

The "formula" thing has always bugged me too. Not so much as to debate if it's BS or not. I think it's both true AND  b.s, but that's another argument. What I don't understand is the whole problem with Mike apparantly pushing for a return to it. Or whatever the case: the Beach Boys degenerating into a hits only travelling jukebox that was dragged out of some garage where it had sat since 1965. As myself and others have stated, the Beach Boys were always ahead of the curve in so many ways. Pretty much every major band has returned to "The Formula" at some point or another. Go see U2 and tell me how many songs they play from the POP album! Fogerty now plays all the old Creedence Hits! There are other examples, but it doesn't even matter. Just how many surfing or car songs did the Beach Boys record and release since Do It Again in 1969? I'm assuming that surfing and or car songs mark the criteria as to what is usually negatively referred to as the formula that Mike supposedly was pushing for! If this is the case, he pretty much failed!

[Nicko]

Everybody needs someone to blame and sometimes the criticisms of Mike have been fair and sometimes they haven't been. The formula has been returned to several times in Brian's solo career as well though which many people choose to ignore.

[runnersdialzero]

Has it ever been said what linked "Time to Get Alone" to Smile? It was apparently considered for Brian Wilson Presents Smile.

Or has it been confirmed that "Can't Wait Too Long" has origins in the Smile sessions?

[hypehat]

Or has it been confirmed that "Can't Wait Too Long" has origins in the Smile sessions?

The riff is pretty much identical to Wind Chimes....

Here's one. Were there an alternate set of lyrics to Don't Worry Baby? If Brian was shopping it to Spector, it would have to have been from the female perspective, girl groups and all that. Any ideas?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Has it ever been said what linked "Time to Get Alone" to Smile? It was apparently considered for Brian Wilson Presents Smile.

Or has it been confirmed that "Can't Wait Too Long" has origins in the Smile sessions?

If you don't mind, runnersdialzero, I'd like to throw "Diamond Head" and "Tones" (was Brian involved) into your question also....

[runnersdialzero]

The riff is pretty much identical to Wind Chimes....

Pretty similar, although it seems there's more to it than just bearing resemblance to the chorus of "Wind Chimes".