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Author Topic: Where does "Carl and the Passions - 'So Tough' " rank?  (Read 9880 times)
chrismooremusic
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« on: September 09, 2009, 04:10:14 PM »

Hi all.  I've been doing a lot of talking and writing about "Carl and the Passions - 'So Tough' " lately, and I'd love to see you all weigh in.

Where does "Carl and the Passions" rank on your list of favorite/best Beach Boys albums?

I wouldn't compare it to "Pet Sounds" or even "Today" and I do think "Sunflower" is the quintessential seventies album, but "Carl and the Passions" has to be a contender for next best seventies album, right?  Maybe with "Holland" as a runner up?

Agree / disagree?

My full review of the album is here:  http://laptopsessions.com/archives/1259  -- whether you visit the link or not, I'd love to read what others think!
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 04:17:33 PM »

I love "So tough". I'd say it is one of my favorite 70s albums (can't give a number, sorry). But I think that they should've gone on with what side one promised: a very Rock- or R'n'B-album (how about a 70s Wild Honey-album?). Dennis' songs and "All this is that" (which I all love) don't fit in there. There are certainly better albums as a whole (Holland for example) but I like this one very much.


Oh, and I love the title
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 04:38:00 PM »

I like it as well. "He came down", a nice song about the Maharishi.. and the Beach Boys manage it to sound like a whole choir.

"Cuddle up" is one of my favorite songs of all times.

But all in all, the album doesnīt make so much sence. The Fataar/Chaplin Songs sounds just like the Flames and donīt have anything to do with the Beach Boys. Not that I donīt like it, but ya know.

All in All itīs ... Iīd say one of my 10 favorite Albums of the Beach Boys. So there is the first row with Pet Sounds, Holland, Sunflower, followed by Friends, 20/20, Wild Honey, Surfīs up, Today, Love you... and then Summer Days and Carl & the Passions... huh, I am good, am I not?
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the captain
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 04:43:46 PM »

I think it is the Beach Boys' fifth best 70s album (Love You, Surf's Up, Sunflower, Holland). If you mean where does it rank among all 70s albums (not just Beach Boys), I doubt it would make my top 50. Maybe not my top 100. It's good, I like it. But there are a lot of great albums in that decade that it doesn't compete with for me.
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 04:52:32 PM »

I love both of those albums, very solid, and best of all far different from anything else in the catalogue.
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 04:56:43 PM »

I'll go :

1. Love You
2. Sunflower
3. Holland
4. Carl & The Passions (but it's gaining)

This album has grown on me considerably through the years. It's good; two more songs would move it into the very good/great status. There are no clunkers or wince-moments. Brian's two songs are top-rate, I can actually enjoy the Chaplin/Fataar tracks, but the clincher is Dennis' contributions. "Cuddle Up" gets my vote for the most underrated Beach Boys' song.
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mikeyj
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 05:07:56 PM »

Well since others are listing their favourite 70s albums I'd go:

1. Sunflower
2. Love You
3. Surf's Up
4. Holland
5. Carl & The Passions - "So Tough"
6. L.A. (Light Album)
7. M.I.U. Album/15 Big Ones
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 05:11:13 PM »

Why the title Carl and the Passions, So Tough?  What does that mean?
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Eric Aniversario
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 05:14:40 PM »

I'd say that CATP ranks in my top 5 BB albums of all time...I've always liked it way better than Holland.

1. Friends
2. LA Light Album
3. In Concert
4. Carl & The Passions - So Tough
5. 20/20
6. Sunflower
7. Summer Days & Summer Nights
8. Love You
9. Summer In Paradise
10. Wild Honey

Ranking *only* the albums from '70 to '80:

1. LA Light Album
2. In Concert
3. Carl & The Passions So Tough
4. Sunflower
5. Love You
6. Surf's Up
6. Keepin' The Summer Alive (Tie)
8. MIU Album
9. Holland
10. 15 Big Ones (a distant 10th)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 02:02:56 AM by Eric Aniversario » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 05:14:56 PM »

Carl and the Passions was a band name for the guys in the early years--whether real or just messing around, I don't recall. So it was a nod to those years. "So Tough" I think is just the name of the album by "Carl and the Passions."
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 05:21:08 PM »

I'd say that CATP ranks in my top 5 BB albums of all time...I've always liked it way better than Holland.

1. Friends
2. LA Light Album
3. In Concert
4. Carl & The Passions - So Tough
5. 20/20
6. Sunflower
7. Summer Days & Summer Nights
8. Wild Honey
9. Love You
10.  Summer In Paradise

Interesting, so you put Summer In Paradise above Pet Sounds and Today!! That's cool if you do, but I just find it strange because I'd imagine that you are one of the few people who feel that way. Cool that you have Friends on top though, because even though I know it's not the groups best album it's probably the one that I listen to most often
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Eric Aniversario
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 05:27:30 PM »

I'd say that CATP ranks in my top 5 BB albums of all time...I've always liked it way better than Holland.

1. Friends
2. LA Light Album
3. In Concert
4. Carl & The Passions - So Tough
5. 20/20
6. Sunflower
7. Summer Days & Summer Nights
8. Wild Honey
9. Love You
10.  Summer In Paradise

Interesting, so you put Summer In Paradise above Pet Sounds and Today!! That's cool if you do, but I just find it strange because I'd imagine that you are one of the few people who feel that way. Cool that you have Friends on top though, because even though I know it's not the groups best album it's probably the one that I listen to most often

Yeah, I love both Pet Sounds and Today...they would probably rank in my top 15, but I've always enjoyed SIP more.  I took a lot of heat back in the day on the Cabinessence board for that.  It's funny, while you were quoting my post, I was changing the order around a little bit, and SIP wound up one notch higher... Smiley
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mikeyj
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 05:54:34 PM »

Yeah, I love both Pet Sounds and Today...they would probably rank in my top 15, but I've always enjoyed SIP more.  I took a lot of heat back in the day on the Cabinessence board for that.  It's funny, while you were quoting my post, I was changing the order around a little bit, and SIP wound up one notch higher... Smiley

Fair enough and that's what counts doesn't it? Whatever you enjoy more.
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the captain
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 06:17:11 PM »

I was going to go the same route, mikeyj and eric a. I was going to note how 1) inexplicable I find those rankings, and how 2) cool it is to make them without any boring attempts at attention-grabbing.
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 09:31:33 PM »

This is just off the top of my head. Sometimes I like one better then another but the positions never change much. 
1. Sunflower-A+
2. Pet Sounds-A+
3. Today-A
4. Wild Honey-A
5. All Summer Long-A
6. 20/20-A
7. Friends-A-
8 Summer Days-A-
9. Shut Down 2-A-
10. Surfin USA-A-
11. Holland-B+
12. Surfs Up-B+
13 So Tough-B+
14 Live In London-B
15 Concert-B
16. Surfer Gir-B
17 Smiley-B
18 Party-B
19.Little Deuce Coupe-B
20. In Concert-B- (docked a full grade for too many oldies and no Dennis)
21. Safari-C+
22. Xmas-C+
23 15 Big Ones-C
24. MIU-C
25. La Light-C- (Would be about a grade higher without Here Comes The Night)
26 Love You-C- (Can't get past the vocals or the lyrics overall. A few real gems)
27. KTSA-C-
28.Still Crusin-D+
29. 85-D
30. SIP-D-
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2009, 10:24:50 PM »

85 after Still Cruisin?? you're nuts!
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 12:52:28 AM »

It's by no means a favourite as big as Love You, Surf's Up, Sunflower, and Holland, the latter one of which sounds like a much more fully developed version of what the BB were aiming at on So Tough to these ears. Depending on the mood I'm in, I might even prefer listening to 15 Big Ones, which has grown on me enormously due to its overall pure Brian-ness. That said, So Tough still strikes me as very good record and I really like to give the group credit for this one being so different from anything that had come before.
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2009, 02:59:05 AM »

I really like the 6 Beach Boys songs on CatP/So Tough and it`s just a shame that the two Flame songs don`t fit at all. It might have worked better if they had gone back to some of the unreleased stuff from the Sunflower period and included 2 or 3 (re-recorded) songs from that.

I don`t like the album half as much as Sunflower, Surf`s Up or Holland...but I prefer it to anything that came later. It`s probably around my 10th favourite I would guess.
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2009, 03:14:00 AM »

'All This Is That' and 'Cuddle Up' are among my favorite BB songs, 'He Come Down' is fun and 'Marcella' is OK, but I don't care for the other four songs.
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 03:18:56 AM »

I wish it was a little bit longer - what's there is pretty good (aside from He Came Down, which is a bit much), but it's a little underwhelming at 8 tracks. Mess Of Help, Cuddle Up, Here She Comes and Marcella (although that is seriously underpowered) are my picks.

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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2009, 03:27:23 AM »

85 after Still Cruisin?? you're nuts!
Somewhere Near Japan is the lone reason I like it more.
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shelter
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2009, 04:07:51 AM »

85 after Still Cruisin?? you're nuts!

Apparently I'm completely out of my mind then. 85 is my least favorite BB album and I kinda like Still Cruisin'.
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2009, 05:17:41 AM »

I think "You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone" is one of the best opening cuts on a BB album, period.  That came out of left field to me.  I have a feeling a lot of folks back then didn't think the BB were capable of such a rocking, powerful song.  They're a rock band on that one.  It deserves more attention than it gets, but that's my opinion.  That's one I'd play to people, & I'd tell them the band's identity after they heard it.

I love Marcella, obviously.  Shoulda been a comeback hit single, we all know.  I also enjoy All This Is That.  They really create a tranquil feeling & vibe on that one.  I even like "Here She Comes."  Maybe that's because it sounds so different to most any song they recorded.  The drums are way up front, with a good guitar solo.  It makes me appreciate the contributions of Blondie & Ricky.

 Hold On, Dear Brother's country flavor & the gospel vocals/organ on He Come Down are a plus, too.  Basically, to sum up, a lot of the songs are enjoyable because the boys were stretching their musical boundaries.  This unfortunately didn't happen very often after Holland.

One thing I don't like about the album are the slower songs.  I disagree with their choice of putting them all together on the 2nd side.  An earlier reviewer mentioned this, too.  The first few times I heard the album, it was hard for me to resist moving on to another track.  I believe in spreading them out.  I love Dennis, but I liked his song variety more on Sunflower.  This may sound terrible, but he sounded too over-wrought & dramatic to me on CATPST.  Regardless, Cuddle Up is better than Make It Good.  You've gotta say this, Dennis's voice was excellent on this album.

I'm not good at ranking albums, but I'd put it in my Top 5 BB albums, along with any from 1968--1973.  I first heard CATPST on the 2 for 1 cd with Holland, & I think of those 2 albums as a whole.  So, they both rank high on my list.  Here's my attempt at ranking, in no particular order:


Carl & The Passions
Holland
Sunflower
Friends
20/20
Surf's Up
In Concert from 1973
L.A. Light Album
Pet Sounds



.....Still got to hear the pre-Pet Sounds albums (some of the 1965 LPs would get into the Top 10 no doubt) in their entirety along with their post 1979 stuff...........
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 05:19:51 AM by jeremylr » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2009, 07:10:40 AM »

85 after Still Cruisin?? you're nuts!

Apparently I'm completely out of my mind then. 85 is my least favorite BB album and I kinda like Still Cruisin'.
85 would be my least but I like Getcha Back. Bad Mike stuff from the 81-00 era I expect, the Brian stuff on 85 is simply awful. I hate Levine's production.
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2009, 07:22:18 AM »

I hate Levine's production.

Me too. It sounds more dated now than anything Brian produced in the 60s.
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