New live Brian EP just released...

[Rocker]

And why do you think BW hates the greatest hits tours?

Don't think - know. Confirmed several times by folk who would know. New material engages him. GH doesn't, and it shows. Kenwood, anyone ?

I could understand this. He's doing these songs for decades now and probably has some bad memories connected with them. But why doesn't he change the setlist? He's in the position now to do so. In the Beach Boys it was another game, because there were 5 others who could outvote him. But now he's the one responsible for everything. Even if he has help from his people, in the end it all comes down to him.

Does it? I've often found myself wondering... if he does indeed favor records like Love You (or Friends) over other BB material, why don't we get to hear much more of that in concert? Why wouldn't he play songs like "Solar System", "Mona", "Airplane", and "Roller Skating Child"?

Indirectly that's my question. It's his name, if he doesn't wanna do it, he just should say "no". If he doesn't do it, there's nothing anyone could do.

[Sheriff John Stone]

And why do you think BW hates the greatest hits tours?

Don't think - know. Confirmed several times by folk who would know. New material engages him. GH doesn't, and it shows. Kenwood, anyone ?

I could understand this. He's doing these songs for decades now and probably has some bad memories connected with them. But why doesn't he change the setlist? He's in the position now to do so. In the Beach Boys it was another game, because there were 5 others who could outvote him. But now he's the one responsible for everything. Even if he has help from his people, in the end it all comes down to him.

Does it? I've often found myself wondering... if he does indeed favor records like Love You (or Friends) over other BB material, why don't we get to hear much more of that in concert? Why wouldn't he play songs like "Solar System", "Mona", "Airplane", and "Roller Skating Child"?

Indirectly that's my question. It's his name, if he doesn't wanna do it, he just should say "no". If he doesn't do it, there's nothing anyone could do.

An overwhelming part of touring is a business venture (you don't think Brian is touring because he LIKES it), and there has to be some strategy used in determining the setlists (see The Beach Boys).

For several reasons, Brian would not be the one to construct a setlist - if he wants to sell tickets.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I've been by Brian's site frequently this week, & there's been no mention of the live EP, which makes no sense.  Seems his management is giving the impression that they don't care about it.  With current record sales, you'd figure they'd milk/promote his EP relentlessly.  Oh well.

The problem with Brian's management imho is that they think Brian's name will sell it and therefor there's no need for promotion. BTW I have the feeling that all Beach Boys think that about themselve. That's why some are still trying to get their album released by a major label.

The problem with Brian's management is much simpler, and scarier, than that - they simply don't have the least idea of how to handle his career. About the only thing they've ever done right is get BWPS into the shops while the momentum was still rolling. They've not had a coherent, concerted touring policy since 2005, in the States anyway, they can't secure Brian a multi-release deal with any label and their recent handling of the band has been deplorable. They seem hooked on the concept of Brian as a major-league player when he is, if anything, a cult figure. I for one find it as amusing as it is ironic that the 'greatest hits' tours (which he hates, btw) consist almost entirely of Beach Boys material. Anything from Imagination or GIOMH ?  Nope. Take away the TLOS songs, and what you've got is, essentially, a Mike & Bruce setlist. Yet M&B get reviled for this, while Brian doesn't. Go figure.

AGD, Serious question: do you think the situation will improve in the future, either in the studio or live and why?

that's pretty much what i asked.. i'd like to hear AGD on the topic

Sorry, been away for a few days.

My thoughts - no, probably not, because for one thing, Brian is closing on 70 and always one to look for the easy life/path of least resistance (also, and never forget this, he is just as capeable of doing the manipulating as he is of being manipulated - he's just much more subtle at it). For almost anything to change, the management situation would have to be seriously revised - and that ain't gonna happen - or they have to suddenly start making smart decisions (ditto). FWIW, this is how I see Brian's career unfolding/closing down over the next few years (not necessarily in this order):

BWPS farewell tour...
50th anniversary BB 'reunion' (in whatever form)...
release of original Smile sessions box set...
release of BW Best Of 1986-20??...
the farewell world tour...

[The Shift]

FWIW, this is how I see Brian's career unfolding/closing down over the next few years (not necessarily in this order):

BWPS farewell tour...
50th anniversary BB 'reunion' (in whatever form)...
release of original Smile sessions box set...
release of BW Best Of 1986-20??...
the farewell world tour...

As he's already done a final Pet Sounds gig, and you're predicting a BWPS farewell tour and a farewell world tour, what are the chances that in his 90s he'll do a "Farewell to Farewell Tours" tour?

The problem with Brian's management is much simpler, and scarier, than that - they simply don't have the least idea of how to handle his career. About the only thing they've ever done right is get BWPS into the shops while the momentum was still rolling. They've not had a coherent, concerted touring policy since 2005, in the States anyway, they can't secure Brian a multi-release deal with any label and their recent handling of the band has been deplorable. They seem hooked on the concept of Brian as a major-league player when he is, if anything, a cult figure. I for one find it as amusing as it is ironic that the 'greatest hits' tours (which he hates, btw) consist almost entirely of Beach Boys material. Anything from Imagination or GIOMH ?  Nope. Take away the TLOS songs, and what you've got is, essentially, a Mike & Bruce setlist. Yet M&B get reviled for this, while Brian doesn't. Go figure.

This, I think, is right on the money. And a great shame. IMHO, the best integrity thing would have been to have the balls to allow Brian to go it alone as a solo artist, not as another Beach Boys tribute, which is what he's become with the greatest hits tours. It's many years since he had anything to do with that band and from the start he should have had a fresh start, including just a smattering of BBs classics in his setlists. That way he might have had smaller audiences for a while, but he'd've been his own man. I suspect it's far too late now to go down that road.

[phirnis]

As SJS has pointed out repeatedly, Brian's own music as a solo artist has been essentially "Beach Boys music", which I think might be part of the problem of him doing little else than BB tribute concerts (which I thoroughly enjoy, mind you, but that's not the point here). He probably should've done more of his own thing as a solo artist, no matter if he would've moved in a more experimental or rock'n'roll-ish direction (personally, I'd love to hear both from him).

[PongHit]

Seems to me they'd need an 'excuse' to tour SMiLE again, & I suppose a box-set of the original sessions could be it.

[Wilsonista]

I think the whole point of a Brian solo career, unlike others who leave bands to go solo, was to continue making Beach Boys music without having to deal with the actual members of the Beach Boys. Jeff Lynne  did the same thing too. In fact, Lynne took it one step further by re-recording note-for-note remakes of the ELO hits for the sole purpose of licensing the remakes  for use in films and commercials (and therefore cutting the label and his frmer bandmates out of the money).

As much as Mike bitches about how lousy the 88 album was, you know, he would have snapped up those songs if the guys had the chance.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I thought the whole reason underlying a BW solo career was because someone with the initials EEL decided it would be so.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think there's a third reason, which is also my opinion. I don't think Brian particularly cares for his solo albums. I rarely hear or read him refer to those albums/songs. And, think about it, how many songs from each album would be worth performing? Three at the most? Well, that would kill about about a half an hour of a show. And, I wonder what the reception from the audience would be? You could almost hear them counting until the next Beach Boys' classic is performed.

It's no secret Brian actively despises Imagination. In a rare moment of letting Brian actually be honest for once rather than shut him up or convince him to spout the company line, so to speak, Brian's interviews shortly after the release of Imagination admitted as much. He also made no bones about where the fault lie, either. (favorite quote: "...not my kind of music...well, vocally it is...")Same thing with GIOMH, although not nearly as obvious. That's the difference with TLOS...he actually liked the material, and it showed in his performance.

My thoughts - no, probably not, because for one thing, Brian is closing on 70 and always one to look for the easy life/path of least resistance (also, and never forget this, he is just as capeable of doing the manipulating as he is of being manipulated - he's just much more subtle at it). For almost anything to change, the management situation would have to be seriously revised - and that ain't gonna happen - or they have to suddenly start making smart decisions (ditto). FWIW, this is how I see Brian's career unfolding/closing down over the next few years (not necessarily in this order):

BWPS farewell tour...
50th anniversary BB 'reunion' (in whatever form)...
release of original Smile sessions box set...
release of BW Best Of 1986-20??...
the farewell world tour...

I wouldn't be surprised if the best of has one or new two tracks. Most of them do these days. I think Brian's going to release one more album, personally.
Also bolded part of the post for emphasis. I think the 2nd Landy era was proof. People tend to forget that Brian was getting what he wanted out of that deal, too. The fact that he was popping Xanax like candy was a revelation...we always jump on Landy for doping Brian up all of the time (and rightfully so...Brian's current state is a direct result of it), but the sad fact is Brian certainly didn't always mind.

[the captain]

I wouldn't be surprised if the best of has one or new two tracks. Most of them do these days.

If they do a final reunion album, I agree that there would likely be a few new tracks. "New," of course, meaning previously unreleased. It would be a selling point to have a couple new Love/Wilson tunes, at the very least one fun 'n' sun "rocker" and one nostalgic ballad. Various pros nail the tracks, the guys likely do their vocals without ever being in the same room as one another, guys from their respective groups with better voices do the harmonies so it doesn't sound awful, the real producer sweetens the whole thing (I'd assume Brian would have the title of producer) and presto, everybody can go out on a falsely happy note.

[Wilsonista]

I thought the whole reason underlying a BW solo career was because someone with the initials EEL decided it would be so.

One of the criticisms of his solo work has been "all he does is make BB records without the Boys. That's why his records suck!" (right, Sheriff John Stone?) Whether it was Landy who came up with the idea or not is not important.  What is important is the motivating factor behind the decision.  

[Wilsonista]

I wouldn't be surprised if the best of has one or new two tracks. Most of them do these days.

If they do a final reunion album, I agree that there would likely be a few new tracks. "New," of course, meaning previously unreleased. It would be a selling point to have a couple new Love/Wilson tunes, at the very least one fun 'n' sun "rocker" and one nostalgic ballad. Various pros nail the tracks, the guys likely do their vocals without ever being in the same room as one another, guys from their respective groups with better voices do the harmonies so it doesn't sound awful, the real producer sweetens the whole thing (I'd assume Brian would have the title of producer) and presto, everybody can go out on a falsely happy note.

And assholes on boards like this will forever bitch about the "deception". 

[the captain]

Who's bitching? Who's deceived?

I'll be honest, here, the more thought I've given it over the past few years, the less I care enough to bitch. The brilliance is already there, and I can listen to it anytime. Going out gracefully ceased to be an option a long time ago. If they want to make a few more (million) bucks in their sunset ride by having their managers, kids, backup musicians or whoever else put together a couple new songs for them, fine. If not, fine.

[Dr. Tim]

While I agree with both RobMac and AGD I would add the following:  for some years Brian got away with doing Mike & Bruce setlists because he had a band that could reproduce his songs the way he wanted to hear them - a composer performing his repertory - and for a time he got a charge out of doing that.  (Mike & Bruce are unabashedly throwing an oldies sing-a-long, which is a different, perfectly OK approach, though they add the occasional "deep track" here and there).  Now if not for the new material to keep him interesting and interested, Brian today would be just another legacy act doing the oldies for us bald-o baby boomers.  It's a paycheck, to be sure, but by now all these years later it could be a bit of a drag.  I mean, if you're going to the Borgata to hear John Kay's Steppenwolf, you aren't going to hear the new Concerto for Rock Band he wants to premiere, you're going to hear "Born To Be Wild" done JUST SO.

Now am I the only d*ckwad who's downloaded the goddam EP this thread is supposedly about?

[b00ts]

Now am I the only d*ckwad who's downloaded the goddam EP this thread is supposedly about?

Most likely, yes.

[Wilsonista]

While I agree with both RobMac and AGD I would add the following:  for some years Brian got away with doing Mike & Bruce setlists because he had a band that could reproduce his songs the way he wanted to hear them - a composer performing his repertory

Thank you. THAT is the key difference between a Brian hits show and the Mike and Bruce show. When it comes right down to it, EVERYONE plays the same damn songs. Brian's presentation is much more athentic.

[Jonathan Blum]

While I agree with both RobMac and AGD I would add the following:  for some years Brian got away with doing Mike & Bruce setlists because he had a band that could reproduce his songs the way he wanted to hear them - a composer performing his repertory - and for a time he got a charge out of doing that.  (Mike & Bruce are unabashedly throwing an oldies sing-a-long, which is a different, perfectly OK approach, though they add the occasional "deep track" here and there).

I have to say the Mike-and-Bruce-ness of Brian's setlists seems pretty seriously overstated to me.

How many times in the thirty or so years before Brian started touring did you get "Please Let Me Wonder" or "Marcella" or "The Little Girl I Once Knew" or "Add Some Music" in the Beach Boys setlist?  Let alone album cuts like "I Know There's An Answer" or "Vegetables".  These are all "deep tracks" -- it's just that we've learned to take these rarities for granted, ignore the fact that he's routinely playing an entire album cover-to-cover, and start craving "Honkin' Down The Highway" instead just for a perverse sort of variety's sake.  Our needs as fans get ever more obscure.

Now, the main band has closed the gap since '99 by playing a more adventurous setlist of their own -- in some shows, at least.  Which is good, it help keeps everyone on their toes.  But acting like there isn't enough material beyond the hits in a show which contains the whole of "Smile", "Pet Sounds", or "Lucky Old Sun" -- which together are by far the lions' share of Brian's shows -- seems kind of weird...

Cheers,
Jon BLum

[Pretty Funky]

Brian plays the Beach Boys hits because he blew away his best years in what could have been a successful solo career. If McCartney could manage both another band (Wings) and solo to keep in the charts, Paul Simon solo hits,  plus other artists then Brian (clean) could have done the same.

In 1988 at 46 years old it makes great press to launch a solo career but little else.

[Dr. Tim]

Wowie wow wow!  Price reduced to $4.58 on Amazon!  Look out for that thundering herd of music lover!

I must admit this is getting weird.  No word on the Le Chat Bleu, no Amazon customers seem to have reviewed it, absolutely NADA on the Capitol Records site (which is up to date).  Is this just an accounting move, put the thing out there as a loss leader, no one buys it so the company can expense the living f*ck out of it?  In that case it should have been a FREE donwload.  And eventually it may become one, give it a week or two and let's see.

Plus you can still stream  the far-superior 12/08 NPR live show. 

Nothing on Susan's site about this, either, though maybe no one's clued those folks in. Or it's just something we don't talk about...

Alternative bands will put out things on the Q.T. and let word of mouth build, like Green Day with Foxboro Hot Tubs, but I wouldn't think this sort of strategy would work on Brianistas. Given the total silence about it I have hard time believing it is entirely Brian's management's doing.  Or does someone know something I don't?  Anyone?  Anyone?

[b00ts]

Brian plays the Beach Boys hits because he blew away his best years in what could have been a successful solo career. If McCartney could manage both another band (Wings) and solo to keep in the charts, Paul Simon solo hits,  plus other artists then Brian (clean) could have done the same.

In 1988 at 46 years old it makes great press to launch a solo career but little else.

Interesting to compare McCartney to Brian Wilson, as the same complaints that are being made here can be leveled at McCartney's shows, except that he doesn't play his new album in its entirety - he plays 5 or so songs from it, interspersed through a set of mostly Beatles songs, with a few Wings and solo hits.

It's hugely frustrating to me, as a big fan of McCartney's catalogue. "Too Many People" from RAM is about as obscure as it gets. This seems to me, however, to be a function of McCartney's fame. He is so big that he can't play too many obscure songs, as people are going to see him for Beatles and Wings hits. Brian Wilson has a bit more room to stretch out, but he does have a touch of the same problem.

If the 'little else' in your statement is the huge amount of enjoyment I and many others have gotten from Brian's solo output, then right on! I agree with you, though; had BW started a solo career in the 70s, it might give him some 'solo hits' to play live.

- b00ts

http://www.thelatters.net <-- free music for you and your wife.
"Most people with low self-esteem have earned it." - George Carlin

[donald]

Solo career began with Pet Sounds and continued nicely with the release of Love You, followed by BW 88 and BW 98.

A solo album once every 10 years. 

[PongHit]

Solo career began with Pet Sounds ...

In some ways, I kinda think all the albums before PS were 'solo' too.

[jeremylr]

I wanted to go back a second & mention the live EP that's the subject of this thread.  Funny, but the sound is low on the iTunes download compared to other songs I download from there.  Don't know about Amazon, etc.  Also, you don't hear any applause or any comments from the band, just the music, which sounds note-for-note like the studio recordings.

[Dr. Tim]

No audience there, best I can tell.  It's just a live run-down of some of the numbers in the AOL studio, wherever that is.  You hear the band start and stop, with brief pauses in between tracks.  Seems like a lead-in promotional thing for those who've never heard TLOS instead of a bonus for those of us who already bought the whole work.  Dunno about overall volume, the Amazon download I got seemed OK, not too loud or soft. 

Whose idea was this?   And why don't they want to own that idea now?  Bueller??   Bueller??

[Awesoman]

Brian plays the Beach Boys hits because he blew away his best years in what could have been a successful solo career. If McCartney could manage both another band (Wings) and solo to keep in the charts, Paul Simon solo hits,  plus other artists then Brian (clean) could have done the same.

In 1988 at 46 years old it makes great press to launch a solo career but little else.

Interesting to compare McCartney to Brian Wilson, as the same complaints that are being made here can be leveled at McCartney's shows, except that he doesn't play his new album in its entirety - he plays 5 or so songs from it, interspersed through a set of mostly Beatles songs, with a few Wings and solo hits.

It's hugely frustrating to me, as a big fan of McCartney's catalogue. "Too Many People" from RAM is about as obscure as it gets. This seems to me, however, to be a function of McCartney's fame. He is so big that he can't play too many obscure songs, as people are going to see him for Beatles and Wings hits. Brian Wilson has a bit more room to stretch out, but he does have a touch of the same problem.

Actually, since Brian has been touring he has performed quite a few chestnuts; stuff we never got to hear in more recent years at the Beach Boys concerts.  It should be noted that the Mike/Bruce show now has a few more obscure titles such as "Good Timin'" and "'Til I Die" added to their setlist in recent years.