What if the Beach Boys had recorded "That Lucky Old Sun"?

[the captain]

If every hypothetical thread were shot down as pointless or stupid, we'd probably have about 10 threads on this board. It's just fun. For f***'s sake. Not everything has to be serious digging deep into the minutiae of who farted during which session. So people wanted to play 'what if?' Not the first time, not the last. I don't think it's a sin to say "oh, Mike would have sounded good on this song or that."

[sockittome]

Hypothetical question: What if the BB had recorded "TLS" in the mid-late 70's? How do you think it would have been received? Also, whom do you think would have taken the lead on each of the songs?

I can definitely hear Carl singing "Morning Beat," Mike on "Good Kind of Love," and Dennis on "Midnight's Another Day." What do you guys think?

Shame on you for even suggesting such a thing!  I hereby sentence you to 6 straight hours of listening to SUMMER IN PARADISE on repeat mode!

Just kidding, really.  Have fun with it.  It's what the board's here for. 

[Jon Stebbins]

This is another one of those "what if my dog pooped gold nuggets?...kind of threads. [...]  I think what I'm trying to say is, for me, the premise is too flawed to take seriously.

Jon, you're right in asserting that LOS is a product of the now. In every respect. From that point of view, the initial post makes no sense.

But there is another, subjacent element that could be inferred from this whole topic: that Brian Wilson’s solo music is Beach Boys music sung by others. Now that could hardly move a number of die-hard BW fans: after all, Brian is the Beach Boys and all that…  But it is still a sour reminder of their wrongness to some superfan-authors that to this day preach about Brian having within himself this incredibly innovative, ultra-original, never-ending cascade of masterful genius music that an evil environment insists in dampening.

There’s never been any of that. In the then and in the now, BW’s music, solo or not, is beach boy music.

Oh yeah...I'm with ya on that. He can't really get away from it because what he does that is so great( and what the Brian Wilson band does that is so great) is create or re-create elements of the BB's  bliss. There are cases of him attempting to artistically ditch the BB's...but they always find him because he literally cannot get away from his own blood and soul...Smile(the best parts have the BB's bliss)...Love You(The Night was So Young...hey they found him again). When Brian hits the mark there is no doubt that the sound is BB's in one way or another. Even a Day in The Life Of A Tree sounds BB's...it has an element of the back seat of Murry's car with a nightmarish twist. I think the premise of this thread mainly turned me off because of the '70's suggestion...TLOS being so incredibly un-'70's at its absolute thematic and stylistic core. But yes if we took the best or peak voice of every Beach Boy and inserted them into TLOS in their appropriate places...those voices would certainly not be out of place with this material. He writes for the spectrum that those voices inhabit at his creative core.

[Jon Stebbins]

If every hypothetical thread were shot down as pointless or stupid, we'd probably have about 10 threads on this board. It's just fun. For foda's sake. Not everything has to be serious digging deep into the minutiae of who farted during which session. So people wanted to play 'what if?' Not the first time, not the last. I don't think it's a sin to say "oh, Mike would have sounded good on this song or that."

Right...so take your own advice and stop taking what you perceive as too much seriousness so seriously.

[the captain]

Don't take what I take too seriously as people taking things too seriously too seriously.

[Jon Stebbins]

Don't take what I take too seriously as people taking things too seriously too seriously.

Seriously?

[the captain]

Seriously. So anyway, if Dennis had recorded Pacific Ocean Blue as a mid-80s rap-meets-rock album, I think the Rev. Run would have sounded good on "Rainbows."

[sockittome]

This is another one of those "what if my dog pooped gold nuggets?...kind of threads. [...]  I think what I'm trying to say is, for me, the premise is too flawed to take seriously.

Jon, you're right in asserting that LOS is a product of the now. In every respect. From that point of view, the initial post makes no sense.

But there is another, subjacent element that could be inferred from this whole topic: that Brian Wilson’s solo music is Beach Boys music sung by others. Now that could hardly move a number of die-hard BW fans: after all, Brian is the Beach Boys and all that…  But it is still a sour reminder of their wrongness to some superfan-authors that to this day preach about Brian having within himself this incredibly innovative, ultra-original, never-ending cascade of masterful genius music that an evil environment insists in dampening.

There’s never been any of that. In the then and in the now, BW’s music, solo or not, is beach boy music.

Oh yeah...I'm with ya on that. He can't really get away from it because what he does that is so great( and what the Brian Wilson band does that is so great) is create or re-create elements of the BB's  bliss. There are cases of him attempting to artistically ditch the BB's...but they always find him because he literally cannot get away from his own blood and soul...Smile(the best parts have the BB's bliss)...Love You(The Night was So Young...hey they found him again). When Brian hits the mark there is no doubt that the sound is BB's in one way or another. Even a Day in The Life Of A Tree sounds BB's...it has an element of the back seat of Murry's car with a nightmarish twist. I think the premise of this thread mainly turned me off because of the '70's suggestion...TLOS being so incredibly un-'70's at its absolute thematic and stylistic core. But yes if we took the best or peak voice of every Beach Boy and inserted them into TLOS in their appropriate places...those voices would certainly not be out of place with this material. He writes for the spectrum that those voices inhabit at his creative core.

It's like trying to get John Fogerty to stop sounding so much like Creedence!  Same principle.  He WAS the sound, even though the other guys had a place in it. 

[Smilin Ed H]

"I think that Mike could've written just as good of lyrics for TLOS!"

Not by the late 70s.  Early, maybe, in places.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with a couple of points.

First, TLOS could've absolutely come out of the 1970's, especially the mid/late 1970's. There are a half dozen or so songs that could be used to construct a 1970's TLOS - "California Feelin", "Good Timin", "Back Home", "It's A Beautiful Day", "Endless Harmony", "Proud Mary", some of Love You, and even "Mike Come Back To L.A." And, it's not just the lyrical content; the songs have a similar feel. It's not a leap at all to envision Beach Boys' voices over TLOS. I don't see Brian breaking any new ground with TLOS; some linking of tracks with some awkward-sounding spoken words. That's a good description of BWPS - or "Mount Vernon And Fairway".

Second point....To say that Brian "can't get away from" the Beach Boys' sound. Well, he could have. He just chose not to, or no longer has the ability to. By scrapping SMiLE in 1967, many people have written that Brian "gave in" to the needs and wants of the group, and gave up his own personal, artistic vision. But, if you take a close look at the songs that Brian actually contributed to subsequent albums, you will find that they are really "out there". Brian DID abandon the classic Beach Boys' sound, either intentionallly or unintentionally. He basically wrote and recorded whatever the hell he wanted - commercial or not. After listening to those songs for the past 40 years, we're used to them by now. But, when they came out, there had to be a lot of "what the fu--" moments. "W. Woodpecker Symphony", "Gettin' Hungry", "I'd Love Just Once To See You", "Busy Doin' Nothin", "I Went To Sleep", "A Day In The Life Of A Tree" (most of it), "You Need A Mess Of Help", and even "Love Is A Woman". Those are just a few examples; they are NOT Beach Boys-sounding songs. Oh, I love 'em all. They're all "Brian", but they're not all classic Beach Boys'.

So, where am I going with this? When Brian chose (?) to be a solo artist, and step outside of the Beach Boys, and create the music in his head, stretch out a little (his words, not mine), music fans were led to believe that we might get something different, something "out there", at least something uniquely creative. What we got were Beach Boys' albums. All of them.

[Jonathan Blum]

This is another one of those "what if my dog pooped gold nuggets?...kind of threads. I mean if you really want to put some serious thought into this...TLOS is totally informed by the '60's, '70's, '80's, 90's, '00's...by Brian's past catalog...by Landy, David Leaf, Joe Thomas, Melinda...and all of ours and the media's post 90's perceptions of Brian. Its a reaction to the post BWPS market. Its not a retro sounding record and the compositions are completely conscious of the now.

...But the thing is, I don't see why that rules out wondering what it'd have been like if the Beach Boys sang on it now.  As in, if this were one of the reunion records some people are desperately holding out for.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[the captain]

For me, that makes the game much easier. It wouldn't sound nearly as good as it does. Whatever they could do then, none of the sexagenarians sings anywhere near as well as the people in Brian's band. I know some of you think magic blend conquers all, but I don't agree--at least not after all these years through such strained vocal cords and with so few Wilsons.

Obviously a lot of people feel the opposite.

[Dancing Bear]

Unlike Brian Wilson 88, I don§t think that TLOS would have been better with the other Boys...it is too self-consciously "solo", it is too autobiographical for anyone to sing it other than Brian Wilson.

Hasn't Brian said that some of those self-pity lyrics in TLOS were Bennet writing about himself? Maybe Brian was trying to communicate something. 

[Jon Stebbins]

This is another one of those "what if my dog pooped gold nuggets?...kind of threads. I mean if you really want to put some serious thought into this...TLOS is totally informed by the '60's, '70's, '80's, 90's, '00's...by Brian's past catalog...by Landy, David Leaf, Joe Thomas, Melinda...and all of ours and the media's post 90's perceptions of Brian. Its a reaction to the post BWPS market. Its not a retro sounding record and the compositions are completely conscious of the now.

...But the thing is, I don't see why that rules out wondering what it'd have been like if the Beach Boys sang on it now.  As in, if this were one of the reunion records some people are desperately holding out for.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Well ...the premise stated by the thread creator was..."What if the BB had recorded "TLS" in the mid-late 70's?"...and that's what my post that you copied was responding to...just to be clear. Later down the thread I also commented about the BB's "voices" from whatever era replacing the voices on TLOS which is a much different thing. I like the name Jon...its a classic.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Hey, maybe that European (I think) web site devoted to all the hidden malignant and downright Satanic significance to be found in the BB's music was on the right track after all!!

 

 

[Jonathan Blum]

Well ...the premise stated by the thread creator was..."What if the BB had recorded "TLS" in the mid-late 70's?"...and that's what my post that you copied was responding to...just to be clear. Later down the thread I also commented about the BB's "voices" from whatever era replacing the voices on TLOS which is a much different thing. I like the name Jon...its a classic.

Fair enough -- that's what I get for paging back and forth between the "fantasy BW solo" thread and this one too quickly.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[KokoMoses]

I love the idea (or the idea OF the idea) and think it's perfectly valid.

The Beach Boys were ALL great singers with unique, individual uneffected voices that really sounded like no one else. And when locked in harmony they were simply mindblowing.... As great as Brian's band is, they just don't have that same magic as vocalists. They tend to sound bland, charachter-less, and wimpy to me. This is probably not a reflection on their own talents but rather the massive shoes that they are (like it or not/admit it or not) filling.

Brian sound great, but not like he did back in the day, so having Mike, Al and Bruce (who still sound pretty much the same as they ever did, especially Al) singing would be amazing, and would have certainly given TLOS a special magic.

[Jim McShane]

I love the idea (or the idea OF the idea) and think it's perfectly valid.

The Beach Boys were ALL great singers with unique, individual uneffected voices that really sounded like no one else. And when locked in harmony they were simply mindblowing.... As great as Brian's band is, they just don't have that same magic as vocalists. They tend to sound bland, charachter-less, and wimpy to me. This is probably not a reflection on their own talents but rather the massive shoes that they are (like it or not/admit it or not) filling.

Brian sound great, but not like he did back in the day, so having Mike, Al and Bruce (who still sound pretty much the same as they ever did, especially Al) singing would be amazing, and would have certainly given TLOS a special magic.

MAYBE in the studio, but I doubt they could have pulled it off live. I disagree with your characterization of the BW band vocals, they just have a slightly "lighter" blend than the BBs.  But regardless, to do what they do live I think was beyond the old BBs. Not that they didn't do some great shows, but the BW band is the best live band I (and many others far more musically skilled than I) have ever heard.

[KokoMoses]

Isn't that kind of like saying Beatlemania is better than the Beatles?

I mean, Beatlemania might BE better than the Beatles in terms of all their harmonies being spot on and note perfect every song/every time and their playing might be more polished and tighter than the actual Beatles...... BUT.....

........ they're NOT the Beatles.

.... Brian's band is NOT the Beach Boys....

[donald]

Just sounds like more longing for that original Beach Boys sound.    It would be really nice to hear Carl and Al back doing ANYTHING with Brian.   But that isn't to be.   Maybe Mike and Al someday soon before it is too late.

But I have to say, the TLOS band sure have a nice sound of their own that I have come to really appreciate.

[KokoMoses]

please don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brian's band. I've seen him/them several times, and it's always an amazing experience...... but yeah, it really is just a bit of longing for those wonderful individual voices of the Beach Boys.

[the captain]

Isn't that kind of like saying Beatlemania is better than the Beatles?

I mean, Beatlemania might BE better than the Beatles in terms of all their harmonies being spot on and note perfect every song/every time and their playing might be more polished and tighter than the actual Beatles...... BUT.....

........ they're NOT the Beatles.

.... Brian's band is NOT the Beach Boys....

It would be more like that if someone from Beatlemania had put together and gotten released an unfinished Sgt. Pepper, and another one had gotten together with Paul and co-written a very solid album. As much as people want the Wilson band to be nothing but soulless, lifeless karaoke machines, it just isn't true. Everyone is entitled to his opinion over which is better, but belittle the other in the process isn't really necessary.

[Jim McShane]

.... Brian's band is NOT the Beach Boys....

Didn't say they were. Don't want them to be. They have earned the right to be who they are.

[KokoMoses]

Understood, but to claim that The original Beach Boys couldn't ever pull off onstage what Brian's current band does, is somewhat rediculous and is belittling to the original Beach Boys who actually originally sang all the parts that the current band are imitating (Yes, imitating: obviously TLOS being an exception) .... They are not soulless karaoke robots, but don't have the warmth or the character of The original Beach Boys. Carl (the greatest singer of all-time, IMHO) Al, Dennis, and (yes) Mike sounded like no one else in the world: the guys in Brian's band could be anyone in the world and you could swap out any one of them for anyone else.

It's not necessarily an insult, it's just that "thing" that seperates legendary bands/singers from others.

[the captain]

I don't think there is anything ridiculous at all about saying the Beach Boys couldn't perform as accurately on stage as Brian's band does. I've never heard anything to convince me otherwise. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to know for sure, in that the Beach Boys weren't able to perform live in an environment with quality monitors with which to hear themselves--at least not when they could sing anywhere near their peaks. But don't assume that just because they put the music on album, they could pull it off so well live--not in terms of accuracy. You can talk about the intangibles/imaginary stuff all you want and there is no disputing such things. But hitting the right notes: nope. Nowhere near as consistently good.