Brian's mental history

[Aegir]

Yeah, but marijuana doesn't mess with your brain anywhere near as much as things like acid or cocaine or whatever perscription stuff Brian was on during the Landy years do. Brian would be a pretty normal guy (comparitively) if he only smoked pot for a few years and never did anything else.

[jmc]

Actually, I think Audree talked out of the side of her mouth too.  At least when she was older.  I recall from one of the biographies where she's interviewed that she spoke out of the side of her mouth a bit.  Maybe its on that side of the family and Carl and Dennis take after Murry in that regard.

[Jay]

I just saw something on TV not to long ago, that kind of fits in this topic. In 1995, there was a documentary that aired on TV called "The History Of Rock&Roll". I can't remember the exact month it aired, but I do remember that the program was dedicated to Jerry Garcia, who had just died. The program was a series of hour long "episodes" that lasted for about a week, I think. In one episode, Brian is interviewed and he slurrs his speech so badly that you can hardly  understand what he's even saying.

[lance]

In the brief interview on the Ready Steady Go! performance on youtube, Brian is talking out of the side of his mouth. He was young then and it looks okay on his fleshy, youthful face. As an older man it looks kind of funny, but I think it has been there all along.

I had a friend who was also a brilliant artist(though not famous) and he went crazy and was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia, which later was changed to bipolar disorder. He saw visions of hell and became convinced that if he didn't mutilate himself, he would go there. He ended up cutting off his arms.
I o nly knew him on medication and he was very kind,  lucid, a bit odd but cool. When I imagine Brian, I think of my friend.

Anyway,  he was convinced that hard drugs(specifically ecstasy taken in the late seventies, early eighties when it was still very new) was what kicked his mental problems into full gear.

 I think most people can do drugs like acid and so on and come out of it more or less normal, but I think it's possible that for the unlucky few like Brian or my friend they trigger a psychotic reaction that just just might have stayed dormant otherwise.

[adamghost]

I thought the most logical explanation for the side-mouth thing was Brian's unilateral deafness?  It would be a natural thing to aim your speech toward the side of your head you could hear out of.

[Ron]

I've seen Carnie speak out of the side of her mouth.  If Audree did it as well later on in life, it's not hard to know why.  They were both subconsciously mimicking Brian.  People do that all the time, I find myself doing some of the quirky things my friends do sometimes when I'm near them.  For instance if I have a friend who's really quiet, I'm probably going to speak a littler quieter when I'm around them.  If I have a friend who uses a lot of arm movements when they talk I might be more prone to do that a little bit when I'm around them.  It's completely natural.

I know a little girl who's mother has a severe limp because she had her hip replaced.  She's pretty young, about 35 or so, and this little 6 or 7 year old girl walks with the same kind of limp that her mother does.  There's nothing wrong with her, she's just used to seeing her mother walk that way so it's natural for her to imitate it. 

As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way.

Finally, like always, we have to understand that Brian has mental illnesses.  Ask your audiologist friend if somebody who's mentally ill might try speaking out of the side of their mouth to better understand their voice. 

[Fun Is In]

"As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way."

Well, that's a post hoc argument.  That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect.

Do you know of other cases of people with unilateral hearing loss who speak out of the sides of their mouth? If not, it would make sense to look for another explanation in Brian's case. You MAY be right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[37!ws]

Y'know, it just occurred to me...my mother, like Brian, is about 95% deaf in her right ear (and had/has an abusive father -- the man's still alive, which is why I say "has," but he hasn't abused her in, oh...about forty years, which is why I say "had" - and it makes me wonder if she truly was born that way or got that way later on and just doesn't remember for sure -- she says she was born that way), and she tends to talk normally, although sometimes when she emphasizes things, she does sort of "favor" one side of her mouth...next time I see her, I'll make a note of it...of course, I will have a bit of trouble explaining why I'm taking notes on her speech patterns...if anything, I'll just say that I'm doing a study of Chicago accents...

[The Heartical Don]

I don't want to interfere with all the interesting hypothesizing going on here, but...
isn't there a more down-to-earth explanation possible? Perhaps Bri suffered a broken jaw in his youth? Or had unilaterally have some molars pulled in his early adolescence (it happens, you know)? That would be a perfectly plausible explanation for talking with one corner of his mouth being a bit more down, and the other seemingly being used for expressing language more...

[Andrew G. Doe]

"As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way."

Well, that's a post hoc argument.  That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect.

Do you know of other cases of people with unilateral hearing loss who speak out of the sides of their mouth? If not, it would make sense to look for another explanation in Brian's case. You MAY be right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

My father was totally deaf in one ear (unlike Brian, who has residual hearing (maybe 5%) in one) from a very early age, and he never spoke out of one side of his mouth. Ever.

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, so it's Wikipedia and all that that entails, but as we're all discussing Brian's problems, here's their description of tardive dyskinesia:

"Tardive dyskinesia is characterized by repetitive, involuntary, purposeless movements. Features of the disorder may include grimacing, tongue protrusion, lip smacking, puckering and pursing of the lips, and rapid eye blinking. Rapid movements of the arms, legs, and trunk may also occur. Impaired movements of the fingers may appear as though the patient is playing an invisible guitar or piano. For comparison, patients with Parkinson's disease have difficulty moving, while patients with tardive dyskinesia have difficulty not moving.

Other closely related neurological disorders have been recognized as variants of tardive dyskinesia. Tardive akathisia involves painful feelings of inner tension and anxiety and a compulsive drive to move the body. In the extreme, the individual undergoes internal torture and can no longer sit still."

That sure made me stop and go "Jesus..."

[No. Fourteen]

"As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way."

Well, that's a post hoc argument.  That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect.

Do you know of other cases of people with unilateral hearing loss who speak out of the sides of their mouth? If not, it would make sense to look for another explanation in Brian's case. You MAY be right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

What about Rob Lowe?  He's deaf in one ear, and has some kind of physical tick when he speaks. 

(I assume some are asking "Who the hell is Rob Lowe?")

[Fun Is In]

OK, so it's Wikipedia and all that that entails, but as we're all discussing Brian's problems, here's their description of tardive dyskinesia:

"Tardive dyskinesia is characterized by repetitive, involuntary, purposeless movements. Features of the disorder may include grimacing, tongue protrusion, lip smacking, puckering and pursing of the lips, and rapid eye blinking. Rapid movements of the arms, legs, and trunk may also occur. Impaired movements of the fingers may appear as though the patient is playing an invisible guitar or piano. For comparison, patients with Parkinson's disease have difficulty moving, while patients with tardive dyskinesia have difficulty not moving.

Other closely related neurological disorders have been recognized as variants of tardive dyskinesia. Tardive akathisia involves painful feelings of inner tension and anxiety and a compulsive drive to move the body. In the extreme, the individual undergoes internal torture and can no longer sit still."

That sure made me stop and go "Jesus..."

I've met some people with both conditions. It can get pretty dire all right. 
Not all are full-blown cases like the descriptions, thankfully.

[Ron]

"As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way."

Well, that's a post hoc argument.  That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect.

Do you know of other cases of people with unilateral hearing loss who speak out of the sides of their mouth? If not, it would make sense to look for another explanation in Brian's case. You MAY be right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

My father was totally deaf in one ear (unlike Brian, who has residual hearing (maybe 5%) in one) from a very early age, and he never spoke out of one side of his mouth. Ever.

Was your father mentally ill?  Brian's certainly does many things most people don't.  Thanks for the link about Dyskinesia, that's interesting info.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"As for the audiologist who's never heard of somebody that's unilaterally deaf speaking out of the side of their mouth, how does he explain Brian's case then?  Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.  If I was 5 or whatever or born deaf on one side I can see where I'd develop that quirk, even if it doesn't make you hear better, you might TRY to speak that way to make it more audible and perhaps it's just a habit that stuck, even if the audiologist says it's useless to speak that way."

Well, that's a post hoc argument.  That doesn't make it wrong, just suspect.

Do you know of other cases of people with unilateral hearing loss who speak out of the sides of their mouth? If not, it would make sense to look for another explanation in Brian's case. You MAY be right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

My father was totally deaf in one ear (unlike Brian, who has residual hearing (maybe 5%) in one) from a very early age, and he never spoke out of one side of his mouth. Ever.

Was your father mentally ill?  Brian's certainly does many things most people don't.  Thanks for the link about Dyskinesia, that's interesting info.

Nope, all the lights were on and everyone was home. 

[endofposts]

Maybe Brian's tendency to talk out of one side and his deafness are related because he has nerve damage?  His deafness was diagnosed as nerve damage-caused, and the facial nerves branch out of some of the nerves related to hearing.  Maybe the particular nerve that's damaged that caused the deafness branches to the facial muscle on that side of his face. 

[Fun Is In]

Maybe Brian's tendency to talk out of one side and his deafness are related because he has nerve damage?  His deafness was diagnosed as nerve damage-caused, and the facial nerves branch out of some of the nerves related to hearing.  Maybe the particular nerve that's damaged that caused the deafness branches to the facial muscle on that side of his face. 

If that was the case, he'd be unable to produce a symmetrical smile. It would be lop-sided.
He still can produce a symmetrical smile as we see in the recent photos.

[endofposts]

Maybe Brian's tendency to talk out of one side and his deafness are related because he has nerve damage?  His deafness was diagnosed as nerve damage-caused, and the facial nerves branch out of some of the nerves related to hearing.  Maybe the particular nerve that's damaged that caused the deafness branches to the facial muscle on that side of his face. 

If that was the case, he'd be unable to produce a symmetrical smile. It would be lop-sided.
He still can produce a symmetrical smile as we see in the recent photos.

But I have seen a couple of photos where he had a lopsided smile, where he's smiling on one side and the other side of his mouth doesn't.  It might be more of a weakness on one side than total damage.  What caused it is not clear, or whether it is related to the hearing loss, or it's just a coincidence it's on the same side.

[Wirestone]

[Roger Ryan]

We also know Brian's right cheekbone was damaged. He had an implant put in in the late 80s while under Landy's care (I think this was one of the times where the surgical team recognized he was on way too much medication), but had it removed in '93 or '94. Seems to me that this could have an effect on one's smile or other mouth movements.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That ain't a smile, that's Brian wanting to get the photoshoot over and done with. 

[Fun Is In]

Agree with AGD's comment about that particular facial expression 

The other problem with the theory of the crooked mouth aiming toward the deafer ear due to damage to two nerves (on the same side) is that if the nerve damage was on the same side for both of the nerves involved, the deafer side would also show facial muscle weakness (droopiness), not strength (pulled farther out on that side).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Plus, unless they reversed the negative on this shot - that's the wrong ear. 

[Jay]

I can do a lopsided smile too, and I'm 100% mentally normal(I think  ). It all depends on the mood the person is in. There have been many times where I've had my picture taken, and done exactly what Brian is doing in the above picture.

[Mark H.]

A couple of points:

I'm a physician and I've seen lots of TD over the years and Brian doesn't have it.

Brian very well may have suffered an anoxic brain injury or small stroke over the years.  We don't know how many ambulance runs for unresponsiveness he's been subject too over the years; however,  I doubt his current medical problems are lasting effects directly related to any medications Landy may have given him.  Landy's a great villain (no pun intended) but name me a psychiatric medication that can permanently "damage" your brain.

Brian does have obvious anxiety issues in public settings. On the other hand, he looks like an elderly mentally ill patient who's just sort of reached the "burn-out" phase of his illness.  If you don't believe me visit a homeless shelter or geriatric inpatient psychiatric unit - you'll see lots of Brian look alikes.  Most mentally ill patients aren't multimillionaires.

In the end I think it is a bit creepy to discuss the guy's medical condition on a public forum.  Really it's his business and no-one else's....and yeah I'm guilty for chiming in but there is a lot of misinformed wild speculation going on here and I think it deserves a generalized response.