Death Of The Beach Boys

[Pretty Funky]

So if the Thames should flood Paul and Ringo, plus the drummer who filled in for Ringo during the Australian Tour could reform the Beatles?

edit...forgot Pete Best.

[Jon Stebbins]

The Beach Boys aren't dead because the members, or potential members of the group aren't dead - literally and physically. As long as Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David are alive, there is still potential, possibilty, hope, dread - put in your own word - that The Beach Boys COULD perform music.

To say a group is dead means "final", that they are gone, will NEVER be around again. But, what if California Governor Arnold Swartzenegger announces some mega-concert to benefit the victims of the fires in California. And what if Arnold publicly invites The Beach Boys to perform, and personally telephones the guys. And they agree. Is it possible Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David could get together, rehearse a set, and perform at a concert as THE BEACH BOYS. Yes, it's possible. So, as long as it's possible, then The Beach Boys can't be pronounced dead - yet. On life support, but not dead.

For those who subscribe to the No Wilsons-No Beach Boys school of thought, I ask you who released "Come Go With Me" on MIU and as a Top Ten single? Al Jardine's Endless Summer Beach Band? According to the definitive vocal thread, no Wilsons appeared on that record....

I agree with SJS on this one...technically. For me the BB's died in Dec. 1983, well really before that, but I didn't know it yet...I held out hope until then. But as SJS so nicely stated there are enough of the original guys left that a band called the Beach Boys could legitimately record something new. I'm not saying I'd like it...but maybe I would...I doubt it...but who knows? But if they wanted to do something then they should. It won't be a possibility for much longer. We are not the Beach Boys so we don't get to decide. Those guys have a connection that goes so much deeper than lawsuits and cheerleaders and bad records and other embarrassing reasons as to why they are dead or should not try to resuscitate. They are the only guys in the world who can say they are original  Beach Boys, who even with the bad stuff were one of the greatest pop acts in history...pretty important stuff. If they want to add one last wheezing chapter to the story I say Go For It! I'd want to do it if I were them. They'd get to laugh at Brian's unintentional jokes, and not laugh at Mike's intentional ones. They'd get to harmonize, maybe not too good, but wouldn't you wanna try it one more time just to see if the motor still turns over? They could be Beach Boys for a minute...man that has got to be fun. All the perfectly sensible reasons as to why they are dead, and shouldn't try to be anything else, don't take into account that these guys are like a really dysfunctional family that still could show up for Thanksgiving dinner at the same table one more time... and perhaps enjoy the meal.

[melissalynn]

Well said, Jon.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'd love it if the surviving members did come together for a final album. It'd be a sure hell of a better way to go out than Stars & Tripe. For me, Still Cruisin' was the point where the band became a self-parody. SIP was a Mike Love solo album in all but name. And Carl was the end of the BB, but not in the way that you might think. For it was Carl who killed the mid-90s reunion attempt. Brian & Mike were working together, the harmonies were killer on "You're Still a Mystery", "Soul Searchin" was also a gem...who knows how good the end result would've been? Maybe Carl was already sick by that point, because Brian sure got pissed at him from everything I've heard or read, and he was supposedly always in Brian's corner.

What actually happened? I keep hearing conflicting stories...

[pixletwin]

My take is a simple one:

When Brian dies, so do the Beach Boys.

[thomasogg]

But only mortals die. (Cue vomit)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Shoot, Brian will probably outlive them all.

My take is a simple one:

When Brian dies, so do the Beach Boys.

I agree, except I'd add Mike ,too. Whatever you feel about him, the BB couldn't exist without him.

[thomasogg]

That's pretty lame to say they should've broken up in the mid 70s; Love You is a great album, MIU us a decent album. As for dieing, the Beach Boys will never die, their spirit of true rock n' roll will always live on, but as far as the actual band goes it pretty much is dead, Carl and Dennis can never be replaced and with all the horsemerda Mike Love has caused merda will never be the same in general.
-Josh

Actually, I've been thinking about this since and the way I see it is this: The Beatles knew when to split up. There catalogue is so impressive because there's so little in it that can be considered genuinely bad, even the mis-fires are generally great, or at least interesting. The same can be said of the Beach Boys up until 1974-5. But they didn't know when to split, and so there back catalogue is instead full of genuinely bad songs, which would not be the case had they split at the time I've suggested. I think awful albums like MIU and the appalling career choices they made during the 80's (cheerleaders, Baywatch appearances, the Fat Boys) continue to damage their rep, and it would've been worth having 'Love You' as a Brian solo, or even - gulp! - not at all, for the band to have called it a day mid-seventies and left behind one hell of a great bunch of albums and a very dignified musical career. Amen.

[MBE]

Mike and Bruce occasionally do a show that does the whole spectrum and their orchestral show in Chicago this spring did the legacy proud. It wasn't the Beach Boys but an artistically valid tribute. Sadly most of their shows aren't, but to me it proves Brian and Mike could artistically blend pretty well if their respective "people" wouldn't get in the way. Certainly they did on Soul Searchin and She's Still A Mystery. Would that be the Beach Boys? In a way but not totally .

Sadly the original Beach Boys did pretty much die with Dennis, and  things like the 1993 box set  tour or the Don Was sessions were few and far between. Just a few flickers of life, but overall it was over. As a consistently thriving group it ended in 1975. The Chicago tour was like the grand finale. I have to agree they should have broken up then (I don't like Love You), but until the end of 1983 there were still moments that felt right. They were happening less frequently but the original chemistry was there. Honestly even when they did work with Brian after 1983 most of it was Stars and Stripes quality. Yet I admite things like Their Hearts at the Regen ignagural showed that they could have contnued properly if the will had been there. So (to use the death analogy) they got ill in 1976 became comatose 90 percent of the time after 1983, and the plug was pulled in 1998. I don't care about legal things, or any of that because I have to go on what I feel inside.  There is a Beach Boys but not The Beach Boys.

[8o8o]

IMO "The Beach Boys" will never die or cease to exist, they're always around - because their music will always be around, it's bigger than the band and bigger than any of the individual members.

It's like John Lennon once said "If you want The Beatles, play one of the records".

[Dancing Bear]

IMO "The Beach Boys" will never die or cease to exist, they're always around - because their music will always be around, it's bigger than the band and bigger than any of the individual members.

Right on.

What we have today is BRI, a business enterprise. The majority of its members are happy with the way things are right now. Sure, any fan has the right to disagree and this is the right thread to voice such opinions, but the constant whinning when anyone dares to comment positively on the Mike & Bruce show gets very tiring.

[donald]

On another thread, on another site, there was recently a discussion of band survivors doing their old group's material (e.g. Macca doing Beatles songs).

Not a problem.  Who wouldn't want to hear a surviving Beatle doing a Beatles song?

But he doesn't call himself the Beatles.  It is Paul McCartney and his band doing Beatles songs co-written by Paul.

David Gilmore can do Floyd songs.  Ray Davies can do Kinks songs.

And Mike Love or Brian Wilson can do BeachBoys songs.

My opinion is that using a group name after most of the original members are gone, is wrong.  It cheapens things.

It reminds me of those James Patterson Novels where the cowriters are listed in small letters at the bottom of the cover.    People may know its not totally authentic but they so want a new Patterson novel that they are willing to believe.

Personally, when I first heard that Carl had cancer,   I was deeply saddened not only by his illness but at the impending loss of the BeachBoys.  It was that clear cut in my mind.


Having said all of that, I hear that Mike's touring band is quite good and worth seeing.

[Emdeeh]

...and it would've been worth having 'Love You' as a Brian solo, or even - gulp! - not at all, for the band to have called it a day mid-seventies and left behind one hell of a great bunch of albums and a very dignified musical career.

Nothing personal Thomasogg, but I hate this type of sentiment.

I'm glad the BBs didn't break up earlier (and as far as I'm concerned, they actually DID break up in 1998 and have not reformed, that's just two BBs touring together nowadays). A lot of good things happened to me because the BBs stayed together as long as they did, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. And while their albums weren't as consistently strong in the '80s as in earlier times, there were still some gems on them, imho.

I'm also still ticked off at the Beatles for breaking up when they did. Granted, they broke up because they couldn't work together any more, so I understand why they split. However, I don't respect artistes for calling it quits early in their careers just to preserve the image of their legacy. Keep on playing for the love of it, even if you're not making money from it anymore, and don't be concerned about whether you're having a glorious, "dignified" career arc or not.

All imho, of course, and your mileage may vary.

[Beach Boy]

I wouldn't say that the Beach Boys died in 1983, because Dennis wasn't longer a Beach Boy anymore, he wasn't treated like a Beach Boy by the others I might say, that's one of the saddest things. 

[Pretty Funky]

I agree with that. I still liked to think that the BB's continued after Dennis's death for a very selfish reason. Despite his later contributions both on lead vocal and song-writing, to me he was not really part of the original Beach Boy sound of say 61-63. This to me was Mike or Brian on lead with both adding either their bass or falsetto as the case may be.Then Carl and Al (or Dave) on background vocals. This is in no way to be read as being critical of Dennis!

From 83-96, there was always the chance or hope that Brian would be included in a project or touring and this sometimes was the case so for me, the original BB's sound was always a possibility. From Feb 98 this chance was gone forever. Just like in 1980 the Beatles were gone forever.

As far as the Mike and Bruce show or any well known band reforming.The less original members, the more they open themselves for criticism so they have to learn to take it.

[MBE]

I wouldn't say that the Beach Boys died in 1983, because Dennis wasn't longer a Beach Boy anymore, he wasn't treated like a Beach Boy by the others I might say, that's one of the saddest things. 

Well I know you have seen that 1983 video of them playing at the ballpark and probably the July 4th 1984 one as well. Brian isn't nearly as into the 1984 show, and Dennis' presence still made a difference at the shows he attended even in 1983. Watch them both and you can really feel the difference. Sure he was gone at the very end but I am sure he would have come back.

The Other Anonymous Jon can back me up here but Dennis  played a lot and sang a fair amount from 1961-1963. In fact he sang more lead lines then any other member other then Brian and Mike.

[Jon Stebbins]

I agree with that. I still liked to think that the BB's continued after Dennis's death for a very selfish reason. Despite his later contributions both on lead vocal and song-writing, to me he was not really part of the original Beach Boy sound of say 61-63. This to me was Mike or Brian on lead with both adding either their bass or falsetto as the case may be.Then Carl and Al (or Dave) on background vocals. This is in no way to be read as being critical of Dennis!

From 83-96, there was always the chance or hope that Brian would be included in a project or touring and this sometimes was the case so for me, the original BB's sound was always a possibility. From Feb 98 this chance was gone forever. Just like in 1980 the Beatles were gone forever.

As far as the Mike and Bruce show or any well known band reforming.The less original members, the more they open themselves for criticism so they have to learn to take it.

Even if you're not being "critical" of Dennis you are being inaccurate. As MBE alluded to...Dennis sang at least as much if not more than Al and Carl in the '61 - '64 period. Certainly more DW lead lines than either of them, and his voice is in the far majority of the harmonies, on virtually all the hits from the beginning until '65. And yes he played the drums on most everything until '64 and then probably more than half after that. So explain why he's not "really part of the original Beach Boys sound."

[Pretty Funky]

For me Jon its like drinking a wine. I may not know what it is, the grape, year, vineyard etc, but I just know what I like.
The Beach Boy sound, My Beach Boy sound, is what Mike, Brian, Carl and Al were able to sing away from the studio and its assistance. It is what got Brian interested ie four part harmony/ four freshman.
Its hard to explain those four voices. It is just the perfect blend for me and it ended when Brian quit. Of course the music got better. I have said before I prefer the 67-73 period over anything else but that sound was unique to that very early time.
Yours and others BB's sound may be different to mine. Thats great, and what makes the band and its music so special to so many people.


Can I direct you to a few performances that demonstrate what I am trying to say? One would be from the "Lost Concert" when Mike tells how they go about writing a song. When they step up to sing "Little Deuce Coupe" and those voices kick in its just magic for me.

"Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsV28gzJfj8

"When I Grow Up To Be A Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODndrI8l8pk

Despite the above, I have always enjoyed the whole Beach Boys ride, good and bad. I very seldom listen now to the period covered above.

Hey...If its a crime to love tight, four part harmony live, lock me up!

[Wilsonista]

Dennis was just as much a part of that Four Freshmen sound as anyone else.  He was part of the f voice blend when Al wasn't in the group.  he sang lead vocals before Brian even THOUGHT of giving a song to Al.  And, most importantly, Dennis was Brian's first and perhaps his greatest muse.  That alone should trump anything any of the other BB had to offer.

[the captain]

That alone should trump anything any of the other BB had to offer.

I can't agree with that. Inspiring Brian to write about surfing does not trump singing "God Only Knows" or the verses of "Good Vibrations." Or, for that matter, co-writing things like "California Girls" and "I Get Around."

[MBE]

Dennis was just as much a part of that Four Freshmen sound as anyone else.  He was part of the f voice blend when Al wasn't in the group.  he sang lead vocals before Brian even THOUGHT of giving a song to Al.  And, most importantly, Dennis was Brian's first and perhaps his greatest muse.  That alone should trump anything any of the other BB had to offer.

Boy all I can say is right on about what Dennis contributed but I can't imagine a Beach Boys without any of the original six members (Al and Dave, not Bruce). Without Dennis they wouldn't have been the Beach Boys period. Their appeal image wise and their innante authenticity would be at least cut in half.  Also for dissentors of how Dennis fit vocally there when he sang harmony on Hearts (for example the 1962  version on the box set)  it is much more rich and resonant.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

If David Marks had stayed, I personally feel that the artistic decline wouldn't have happened until much later. It's interesting to think how that would've turned out...

[Dancing Bear]

If David Marks had stayed, I personally feel that the artistic decline wouldn't have happened until much later. It's interesting to think how that would've turned out...

If David had stayed he could have stagnated as a guitarist, just like Carl. But I didn't read the book.

[Wilsonista]

If David Marks had stayed, I personally feel that the artistic decline wouldn't have happened until much later. It's interesting to think how that would've turned out...

If David had stayed he could have stagnated as a guitarist, just like Carl. But I didn't read the book.

I didn't either.

And I think you're right. BB music didn't provide much opportunity for a budding guitar shredder to really work out his guitar chops.

[Jon Stebbins]

For me Jon its like drinking a wine. I may not know what it is, the grape, year, vineyard etc, but I just know what I like.
The Beach Boy sound, My Beach Boy sound, is what Mike, Brian, Carl and Al were able to sing away from the studio and its assistance. It is what got Brian interested ie four part harmony/ four freshman.
Its hard to explain those four voices. It is just the perfect blend for me and it ended when Brian quit. Of course the music got better. I have said before I prefer the 67-73 period over anything else but that sound was unique to that very early time.
Yours and others BB's sound may be different to mine. Thats great, and what makes the band and its music so special to so many people.


Can I direct you to a few performances that demonstrate what I am trying to say? One would be from the "Lost Concert" when Mike tells how they go about writing a song. When they step up to sing "Little Deuce Coupe" and those voices kick in its just magic for me.

"Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsV28gzJfj8

"When I Grow Up To Be A Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODndrI8l8pk

Despite the above, I have always enjoyed the whole Beach Boys ride, good and bad. I very seldom listen now to the period covered above.



Hey...If its a crime to love tight, four part harmony live, lock me up!

Basically all you are saying is that you prefer the live sound, minus the textured vocal from Dennis that is prominent on the hit versions of the songs you use as example...on the live versions Al slides into Dennis' vocal spot for the most part. On the studio versions of When I Grow Up and LDC Dennis' voice is more prominent than Al.