Death Of The Beach Boys

[petsite]

I know it has been said many times in the past (on this very board) but I think it bears repeating (after reading about the comings and goings with the tour group Mike heads up).

The Beach Boys suffered a terrible loss when Brian quit touring in 1964 and quit producing their records in 1967. When Dennis died on December 28th, 1983, The Beach Boys as we knew them ceased to be. Carl and the rest of the group kept the heart and soul going until February 6th, 1998. After Carl died, the Beach Boys were no more. Period. End Of Story. No, then weren't just down another member. They ceased to exist.

Some music reference books currently in publication correctly state "The Beach Boys - 1961 to 1998".  The group died that day. The collection of people touring with Mike and Bruce are called the Beach Boys because the term "Beach Boys" is now a brand that is up for sale to the highest lease payer. If someone came in and said they would guarantee 15 million dollars in fees for the trademark, the board members of Brother Records would have to accept the offer and pull the license from Mike and Bruce. Otherwise, the board members could be sited for fiduciary misconduct.

Just wanted to add my $.02.

[thomasogg]

Careful, mush. I stated pretty much exactly what you've just said in that first paragraph recently and ended up getting told 'boy you are going to look a fool' and 'get an education' by none other than Mr Jon Stebbins. Even though what you've just said is of course true - look above, even the South Park guys agree.

[thomasogg]

I claimed, for instance, that if, as some people say, the Beach Boys still excist as a band, then that meant if Mike were to get sick and pull out of a show, but Bruce and the crew still played the gig, then that, according to them, and despite containing not one single original member of the band, would still consitute 'the Beach Boys'. I argued that if that were the case it was utterly ludicrous! If not, then the argument is over. They don't excist anymore. It is exactly as you described in your second paragraph.

[the captain]

It's just not a topic with an actual answer. So anything anyone says is an opinion, maybe interesting but not more valid than any other.

[thomasogg]

Personally I wish they'd split up round about 1974-75 - at that point they had yet to release a bad album, some interesting mis-fires sure, and some bizarre curios, but nothing terrible. 15 Big Ones and MIU would soon put paid to that... Although their critical standing does seem to improve with every passing year, they did their rep a lot of damage during the late '70s and '80s. So I wish they'd split on a high with Holland and having proven themselves as an incredible live band.

[oldsurferdude]

Therapy is the only way to cure those who believe the Beach Boys still exist-it is sad to see all those poor souls on the BBB carry on like they do about the Mike & Bruce tribute band with a few changes in personnel and how those changes may affect the way they sound-I guess they just don't really know any better or have not had the chance to see the real band in concert-As alot of people here and everywhere have said, "no Wilsons, no Beach Boys". Seeing the tribute band that has the "license" to call themselves the Beach Boys does not constitute the Beach Boys in any way, shape or form. Yes, I liked the Cowsills in high school-they had a few hits, but to think that one of them is a Beach Boy is absurd! It is all over for them for being thought of as a "group". Tribute band, yes, and not the best one out there by any means.

[the captain]

Seeing the tribute band that has the "license" to call themselves the Beach Boys does not constitute the Beach Boys in any way, shape or form.

Sure it does. The legal way, shape and form. I personally couldn't give a f*** less about them, but then again I wouldn't have paid more than about 15 cents to see the band after 1980 or so. And hence back to the initial point: the Beach Boys DO exist now, just in a very different form that isn't interesting to most people. But they do exist and to some people they exist in a worthwhile form.

[oldsurferdude]

The Beach Boys exist??? The Hell they do-anyone with any brains knows that up front-get with it man-

[thomasogg]

I suppose it's all down to which you consider the more worthy really: a load of lawyer-approved, court-settled documentation, or the actual human beings who made the music that we spend all our time talking about on this website?

[mikeyj]

Do the Beach Boys exist?

Yes in name they do

Do they exist as we all loved them?

No.

I don't see the point of arguing. Just move on...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I know it has been said many times in the past (on this very board) but I think it bears repeating (after reading about the comings and goings with the tour group Mike heads up).

The Beach Boys suffered a terrible loss when Brian quit touring in 1964 and quit producing their records in 1967. When Dennis died on December 28th, 1983, The Beach Boys as we knew them ceased to be. Carl and the rest of the group kept the heart and soul going until February 6th, 1998. After Carl died, the Beach Boys were no more. Period. End Of Story. No, then weren't just down another member. They ceased to exist.

Some music reference books currently in publication correctly state "The Beach Boys - 1961 to 1998".  The group died that day. The collection of people touring with Mike and Bruce are called the Beach Boys because the term "Beach Boys" is now a brand that is up for sale to the highest lease payer. If someone came in and said they would guarantee 15 million dollars in fees for the trademark, the board members of Brother Records would have to accept the offer and pull the license from Mike and Bruce. Otherwise, the board members could be sited for fiduciary misconduct.

Just wanted to add my $.02.

Depends what you mean by "The Beach Boys". For touring, any member of the corporation who conforms to the license issued by BRI can legally call themselves The Beach Boys. Not up for grabs to the highest bidder at all. Follow the rules, pay the cut, the name is yours.

As for recording, the situation is much more clear cut - for any new release to be credited to The Beach Boys, it has to feature Brian, Mike, Alan & Bruce.

The Beach Boys have 'died' many times... 1964, 1967, 1972, 1977, 1983, 1996, 1998. Thing is, no-one told them so they just kept on truckin'. Personally, they died creatively in 1973, emotionally in 1983 and for all intents in 1998. But that's just my 2¢.

[Aegir]

I think the reason that the current band is not considered the Beach Boys by many is that they're just performing songs that have been around for years and featured people like Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Al (and Dave) on the recordings.

Let's contrast that with a group like the Four Freshmen, who, with no original members, are still releasing albums and in 2000 were voted Vocal Group of the Year. If Brian had the license to the Beach Boys name, and released his solo albums as Beach Boys albums, I think people here would see that as being more legitimate. But it's not.

[kookadams]

That's pretty lame to say they should've broken up in the mid 70s; Love You is a great album, MIU us a decent album. As for dieing, the Beach Boys will never die, their spirit of true rock n' roll will always live on, but as far as the actual band goes it pretty much is dead, Carl and Dennis can never be replaced and with all the horseshit Mike Love has caused sh*t will never be the same in general.
-Josh

[Magic Transistor Radio]

To many casual BB fans, it doesn't matter who is on the stage. Its the songs that they want to hear. I suppose it helps that at least one original member is on the stage, making it more then a tribute band.  But I bet many casual fans have no clue who the original BB are and could care less.

To anybody on this board, being more serious BB fans, we need more then to see a bunch of guys playing the hits on stage.  In the last 10 years, Brian has made a come back and his shows are much more representative of what the BB really are. In other words, music from all eras. As a matter of fact, many of us would take Al Jardine's sets more seriously then Mikes, right?

[Steve Mayo]

Seeing the tribute band that has the "license" to call themselves the Beach Boys does not constitute the Beach Boys in any way, shape or form.

Sure it does. The legal way, shape and form. I personally couldn't give a foda less about them, but then again I wouldn't have paid more than about 15 cents to see the band after 1980 or so. And hence back to the initial point: the Beach Boys DO exist now, just in a very different form that isn't interesting to most people. But they do exist and to some people they exist in a worthwhile form.

i have seen quite a few beach boys shows over the years. the early '70's, they were great. but i'm glad i went after '80 also. saw many "average" shows but some were as great as any era i had seen them in. the shows were worth the ticket price for sure. and i can listen to a lot of them over and over again. i taped many of the concerts i went to. the june 1984 concert in huntington, wva was as good as any show i had ever seen. the songs were mostly the hits, not like the early '70's material, but the playing, leads, background vocals were stunning at that show and came out great on my tape of that show. i love listening to that tape, esp. wendy.  so, for me anyway, i'm glad i went to many concerts after '80. plus i got to drink all that beer...... 

but i have only seen the "tribute" band once and left early cause that version of the group just wasn't the same. but i saw many good and great shows after 1980.

but to each their own i guess.....

[Pretty Funky]

No New Album-No Beach Boys IMO

[the captain]

The Beach Boys exist??? The Hell they do-anyone with any brains knows that up front-get with it man-

Learn some manners, "dude." And work on some logic.

[the captain]

No New Album-No Beach Boys IMO

I've thought that, too. But then that logic only works for people whose personal appreciation of the Beach Boys consists of studio albums, new product. If it takes newly released albums to make a band, then no band existed before the phonograph was invented. And I'm sure there were bands that, if they weren't comprised of long-dead people, would disagree with that. And even saying "fine, but they have to perform new music," doesn't work, because plenty of acts throughout the years didn't do new material--especially in jazz and folk.
 
The most important part of your post, the most correct part, and the part I can't fathom other people not understanding, is the "IMO."

For those who have such definitive answers, don't you notice the diversity of opinions others have? The other "definitive answers"? That probably ought to tell you to reflect on what you believe and whether it's really so factually definitive. (Hint: It isn't.)

[Fun Is In]

I agree that there are both legal and personal answers to the question.

For me personally, they died as a performing group the 4th time I saw them.
It was in the late 80s. They put on such a poor show that I was mortified to have taken my friends to see them.  I wouldn't go back again.

For me personally their potential as a recording band died with Carl Wilson.

The group of people currently touring undoubtedly put on a better show than the last one that I saw.......but they also charge a lot more and lack all Wilson's. I call them "Mike Love Presents the Music of the Beach Boys", which is not a bad thing. More power to him/them for keeping the flame of live performance of the music of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys alive.

If the survivors got together and recorded, they could call themselves whatever the contracts allow...but they might do better to update an old moniker and call themselves The Survivors than The Beach Boys.

But, really, for the future, it's the music that counts.

[oldsurferdude]

The Beach Boys exist??? The Hell they do-anyone with any brains knows that up front-get with it man-

Learn some manners, "dude." And work on some logic.

Deal with it, and while you're speaking of logic, your "frothing at the mouth" posts could easily be condensed into one or two meaningful sentences-bit wordy aren't you?

[the captain]

No.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Beach Boys exist??? The Hell they do-anyone with any brains knows that up front-get with it man-

Learn some manners, "dude." And work on some logic.

Deal with it, and while you're speaking of logic, your "frothing at the mouth" posts could easily be condensed into one or two meaningful sentences-bit wordy aren't you?

The Beach Boys exist - unless something cataclysmic has happened in the last few hours, Brian, Mike, Alan & Bruce are still alive, thus The Beach Boys exist, albeit in a condition of stasis. Who was that on the roof at Capitol ? Wasn't Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, for sure.

[oldsurferdude]

The Beach Boys exist??? The Hell they do-anyone with any brains knows that up front-get with it man-

Learn some manners, "dude." And work on some logic.

Deal with it, and while you're speaking of logic, your "frothing at the mouth" posts could easily be condensed into one or two meaningful sentences-bit wordy aren't you?

The Beach Boys exist - unless something cataclysmic has happened in the last few hours, Brian, Mike, Alan & Bruce are still alive, thus The Beach Boys exist, albeit in a condition of stasis. Who was that on the roof at Capitol ? Wasn't Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, for sure.

Ok, you're right-the only thing I would add is "...the individual Beach Boys exist". But in terms of a "group" they do not exist.

[thomasogg]

That's pretty lame to say they should've broken up in the mid 70s; Love You is a great album, MIU us a decent album. As for dieing, the Beach Boys will never die, their spirit of true rock n' roll will always live on, but as far as the actual band goes it pretty much is dead, Carl and Dennis can never be replaced and with all the horsemerda Mike Love has caused merda will never be the same in general.
-Josh

Not as lame as describing MIU as a decent album. Brian coulda released 'Love You' as a solo, Dennis coula released 'Baby Blue' & 'Love Surrounds Me' on Bamboo (this is, before anyone starts replying, purely in my ideal hypothetical vision), and we'd have all been spared 15 Big Ones, 'Brian Is Back', MIU, most of KTSA, dancing cheerleaders etc. and their back catalogue would remain an untarnished gem!

[Sheriff John Stone]

The Beach Boys aren't dead because the members, or potential members of the group aren't dead - literally and physically. As long as Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David are alive, there is still potential, possibilty, hope, dread - put in your own word - that The Beach Boys COULD perform music.

To say a group is dead means "final", that they are gone, will NEVER be around again. But, what if California Governor Arnold Swartzenegger announces some mega-concert to benefit the victims of the fires in California. And what if Arnold publicly invites The Beach Boys to perform, and personally telephones the guys. And they agree. Is it possible Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David could get together, rehearse a set, and perform at a concert as THE BEACH BOYS. Yes, it's possible. So, as long as it's possible, then The Beach Boys can't be pronounced dead - yet. On life support, but not dead.

For those who subscribe to the No Wilsons-No Beach Boys school of thought, I ask you who released "Come Go With Me" on MIU and as a Top Ten single? Al Jardine's Endless Summer Beach Band? According to the definitive vocal thread, no Wilsons appeared on that record....