1996

[the captain]

cheerleaders...I enjoyed seeing them. They didn't block my view, they improved it!

This amuses me. And it isn't wrong. And the fact is, it gets to the heart of one of the great Beach Boys debates. If you want to get a clean look at Hired Musician #3 to see if he is using the same voicing on such-and-such chord that Carl used back at the Isle Of Whatever festival because replicating such things is oh so important, you care because it's distracting from what matters. And if you're going to listen to songs that make you feel good, you don't mind them--you recognize the cheese, and go with it because it's all in fun.

High art.

Fun.

(Somewhere in between? Common sense?)

[Chris Brown]

I think that perhaps financial reasons played a part in it. We all know that The Beach Boys were huge in the 1960's, but by the 1990's they were playing country fair's. Think about this: would you rather sing a dud like "Kokomo" and make a million dollars, or sing a song like Feel Flows and...not make a million dollars?  Maybe the group didn't argue against Mike out of sheer need to be financially secure?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! There was and is a lot of hypocrisy going on.

But back to the cheerleaders....I've never been able to figure out why they/that upset so many people on this board. They didn't bother me. I enjoyed seeing them. They didn't block my view, they improved it! All they did was dance to a couple of oldies, enhanced the song if you will. If they bothered you so much, you didn't have to watch them. I actually heard a lot of applause when they were on stage.

Brian brought out power tools for "The Workshop Song", vegetables for "Vega-tables", and a fire hose for "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". I guarantee it, GUARANTEE IT, if he would've brought out cheerleaders for "California Girls", people would've applauded it and proclaimed him a genius for it.
   

I think the problem that many have with the cheerleaders is that their presence takes away from the music, which is supposed to be the focal point.  Obviously by that point in time, the music wasn't their primary concern ($$$).  The cheerleaders did not "enhance" the song at all; they were just a distraction.  Not only that, but they reinforced the band's "oldies" image.  Taking the band in that oldies direction led directly to their creative death, and promoted the ridiculous stereotype (which still exists) that all the Beach Boys ever did was car and surfing songs.  So I guess it isn't so much the cheerleaders themselves, but rather, what the cheerleaders represented.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Chris, you're right, by that time the $$$ was the primary concern, but you don't really believe that the cheerleaders' presence "takes away from the music".

Did you or anybody else really want to focus on Al's guitar playing on "California Girls", or Mike Kowalski's drumming on "Kokomo", or Bruce's piano playing on "Do You Wanna Dance"? C'mon, they just stood there! Carl rarely played a solo.

Without getting into what the guys might've done with the cheerleaders off stage - yes, I know Mike even married one - their purpose was simple - to add a little or to spice up the shows. And that's all they did. It was harmless fun. It didn't affect their creativity or anything like that. Like I said in an earlier post, Brian would've been praised as being creative if he did it.

I'm sure the use of the cheerleaders had to be voted on - and of course, people will single out Mike Love - but he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Maybe there was grumbling about ticket prices or the length of the sets or the age of the members or whatever. So they decide to add a little excitement to the show. Big deal. I didn't hear any boos, mostly overwhelming applause. It's just another lame excuse to take a shot at Mike Love.

[Emdeeh]

As a woman, I really didn't want to have anyone blocking my view of Carl Wilson -- or any other of the guys -- onstage. Dancing girls just don't DO anything for me... I wanted to see the BEACH BOYS, dammit!



The worldview's a little different from the distaff side of things.

[Wilsonista]

Chris, you're right, by that time the $$$ was the primary concern, but you don't really believe that the cheerleaders' presence "takes away from the music".

Did you or anybody else really want to focus on Al's guitar playing on "California Girls", or Mike Kowalski's drumming on "Kokomo", or Bruce's piano playing on "Do You Wanna Dance"? C'mon, they just stood there! Carl rarely played a solo.

Without getting into what the guys might've done with the cheerleaders off stage - yes, I know Mike even married one - their purpose was simple - to add a little or to spice up the shows. And that's all they did. It was harmless fun. It didn't affect their creativity or anything like that. Like I said in an earlier post, Brian would've been praised as being creative if he did it.

I'm sure the use of the cheerleaders had to be voted on - and of course, people will single out Mike Love - but he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Maybe there was grumbling about ticket prices or the length of the sets or the age of the members or whatever. So they decide to add a little excitement to the show. Big deal. I didn't hear any boos, mostly overwhelming applause. It's just another lame excuse to take a shot at Mike Love.

My God.

1. Brian's shows would never, EVER have dancing cheerleaders.  Having the Suedes dancing during the encores, perhaps, but not the cheesefest that the BB cheerleaders represented.

2. The cheerleaders WERE Mike's idea.  Go back and re-read Carlin if you don't believe me! Mike's idea, loved by Bruce, disliked by Carl (who put up with it anyway - probably as a way of throwing Mikey a bone), and absolutely despised by Al ( having a dancing routine as part of your act meant that their set list and repertoire was now limited).  I don't know what Brian thought, probably didn't care.

Brian's use of props during the SMiLE shows can't be compared to the cheerleaders and any attempt to do so is foolish.

[Wilsonista]

As a woman, I really didn't want to have anyone blocking my view of Carl Wilson -- or any other of the guys -- onstage. Dancing girls just don't DO anything for me... I wanted to see the BEACH BOYS, dammit!

Margaret, for once I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[Aegir]

I think the cheerleaders were a dumb idea. I think they add nothing to the show; they're a complete distraction.

Yes, I would much rather look at Al playing guitar on California Girls. He's one of the f*cking Beach Boys! And who decided which chords that Al should on CG? BRIAN WILSON! A CHORD PROGRESSION DESIGNED BY BRIAN WILSON!!! That's much better than I'm some girl.

And I don't give a darn what Brian Wilson fans think. I don't even like Taylor Mills.

[Dancing Bear]

Brian brought out power tools for "The Workshop Song", vegetables for "Vega-tables", and a fire hose for "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". I guarantee it, GUARANTEE IT, if he would've brought out cheerleaders for "California Girls", people would've applauded it and proclaimed him a genius for it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The cheerleaders WERE Mike's idea.  Go back and re-read Carlin if you don't believe me! Mike's idea, loved by Bruce, disliked by Carl (who put up with it anyway - probably as a way of throwing Mikey a bone), and absolutely despised by Al ( having a dancing routine as part of your act meant that their set list and repertoire was now limited).  I don't know what Brian thought, probably didn't care.

Brian's use of props during the SMiLE shows can't be compared to the cheerleaders and any attempt to do so is foolish.

RobMac, I believe you. But who's to blame?

1. Bruce loved it.
2. Carl put up with it.
3. Al despised it. How did he vote?
4. Brian probably didn't care.

So, based on that, who's to blame? Again, it's Mike Love trying something, anything, to change things up, give the fans something extra, AND THE OTHERS GOING ALONG WITH IT, PROBABLY VOTING FOR IT, then Mike Love being singled out and criticized for it.

And I don't think comparing The Beach Boys using cheerleaders to Brian's using props is foolish at all. I think it's calling the kettle black.

[Wirestone]

Oh come on. The cheerleaders were and are stupid. There's a difference between whimsy (power tools on a song that used power tool sounds originally) and sexist pandering. And if Brian kept using the power tools for song after song during Smile, you can bet people would say it was stupid.

[oldsurferdude]

The cheerleaders WERE Mike's idea.  Go back and re-read Carlin if you don't believe me! Mike's idea, loved by Bruce, disliked by Carl (who put up with it anyway - probably as a way of throwing Mikey a bone), and absolutely despised by Al ( having a dancing routine as part of your act meant that their set list and repertoire was now limited).  I don't know what Brian thought, probably didn't care.

Brian's use of props during the SMiLE shows can't be compared to the cheerleaders and any attempt to do so is foolish.

RobMac, I believe you. But who's to blame?

1. Bruce loved it.
2. Carl put up with it.
3. Al despised it. How did he vote?
4. Brian probably didn't care.

So, based on that, who's to blame? Again, it's Mike Love trying something, anything, to change things up, give the fans something extra, AND THE OTHERS GOING ALONG WITH IT, PROBABLY VOTING FOR IT, then Mike Love being singled out and criticized for it.

And I don't think comparing The Beach Boys using cheerleaders to Brian's using props is foolish at all. I think it's calling the kettle black.

Anyone remember Al Coholic on the old Ego board? Well, now there's a Mikaholic on this board-and with such incredibly lame rationalizations he floats trying to save the "hallowed" reputation of the Lovester-Damn!! This guy is a one man army-and I mean ONE man. Pack it in stone-Mike Love's reputation was already established years ago-If you feel so driven to clean up his messy name, why don't you hang at the Lovester's site-it's the only thing that's more pathetic than Mike.

[Dancing Bear]

You guys gotta understand Mike has a thing with cheerleaders - He even married one. 

[Wilsonista]

Thank you, Clay.

Stone, I don't know who voted for what,  neither do you.  However, Carl "putting up with it" is not the same as approving it. That's Cam Mott logic. I do lots of sh*t in my life that I don't approve of . It's doesn't mean I actually like it.  why didn't Carl object? Others in this thread have already speculated. I'm not going to rehash what others have said. Al, however went ballastic. If there was a vote, I would absolutely believe it if I heard that he had voted against it.  Face it, the cheerleaders were a lame idea that managed to suck out the last vestiges of what was great about a great live rock and roll band.  

[Mark H.]

 Face it, the cheerleaders were a lame idea that managed to suck out the last vestiges of what was great about a great live rock and roll band.

   I won't even go there....

[Dancing Bear]

 Face it, the cheerleaders were a lame idea that managed to suck out the last vestiges of what was great about a great live rock and roll band.

   I won't even go there....

LOL

Loosen up, guys, cheerleaders in oldies concerts, oh my. By those high standards of 'keeping the legacy' Brian shouldn't get near a stage.

[Beach Boy]

I don't even like Taylor Mills.

My opinion is that she is just there for the audience. 

[carl r]

Mike Love is an interesting fella IMO, and would make a good subject of a psychoanalytic biography. When I've seen him interviewed or camping it up on stage, he always seems on the verge of self-parody, like a very brittle, effeminate version of Mick Jagger. He's probably personable to some degree, but you wouldn't leave your kids with him. Quite funny how Brian gathered the reputation for eccentricity with Mike around. I have a nagging suspicion, that whilst I don't advocate violence in any form, Mike would have benefited from a good slap around the head every now and then. Dennis Wilson obviously thought so.

[MBE]

I think the idea of cheerleaders was one of Mike's worst but hate seeing this turn into an anti Love thread. They are so passe. I've said it 100 times, but if Mike didn't have the talent of his cousins, he added a lot to the group and they wouldn't have been the same without him. No matter how corny the shows got, that does not take away from songs like Do It Again, almost the entire Wild Honey LP, Big Sur, and countless others.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think the idea of cheerleaders was one of Mike's worst but hate seeing this turn into an anti Love thread.

Which, of course, it did and usually does. Which is the only reason I was posting. While the cheerleaders never bothered me, really, I could give a merda either way.

The bigger point is why place ALL of the blame on Mike Love? RobMac made a few statements about how the other guys might've felt about the cheerleaders. I used his statements to make my point. And then he said, "You don't know who voted for what". Well, somebody voted FOR the cheerleaders other than Mike. Why not hold them accountable? And THAT is the issue.

This is becoming a trend on this board. Mike Love comes up with an idea to improve The Beach Boys. It might be the craziest, dumbest, loopiest idea that you ever heard. I'll admit that. Some of Mike's ideas are stupid. But, then, his ideas become reality. Why? Because they were APPROVED BY A VOTE BY THE OTHER GUYS! So who's really to blame?

I'm not absolutely sure, but I would think that having young ladies come out on stage during a Beach Boys' concert and dance to some of the songs would be something that would have to be discussed and voted on by the band. I don't think Mike Love would be able to DICTATE something like that. So Mike brings up the idea and it's passed. And that's important - it's passed.

If the idea was so bad, that it demeaned their legacy, thwarted their creativity, and publicly embarrassed them, then how could it possibly get passed? Because BRUCE liked the idea. CARL let it pass. BRIAN didn't care. I would love to know how AL voted.

Why is there no outrage at Bruce for liking the idea? Why not blame Carl for "letting it go". And, God forbid, we blame Brian for not caring. Why didn't they just vote Mike down, and all of his other crazy ideas. Then there wouldn't have been any cheerleaders. Or, maybe they DIDN'T think it was such a bad idea at that time. You can't have it both ways, because then it becomes hypocrisy.

[Smilin Ed H]

Crap management?

[Wilsonista]

OK.

If there was a vote.....

1. Bruce wouldn't had any say one way or another because of his status as "hired hand".
2. Carl, by the late 80's was probably tired of always fighting Mike over the shows.  He probably gave in in the spirit of "social harmony".  Doesn't excuse his action, but I'm flabbergasted that you aren't even trying to look at it from Carl's (or anyone else's standpoint except for Mike's). I can understand Carl's position.
3. Brian's solo career was already in  full swing. Landy probably thought "ehh. Whatever".
4.Al DID object strongly to cheerleaders and did fight Mike. Hell, he fought Carl too over the repertoire.  I can handle you blaming Carl and Brian (more like grdgingly tolerate), but  you are dead wrong in blaming Al. It was hardly his fault that he was outvoted (if a vote did happen).

[Jon Stebbins]

OK.

If there was a vote.....

1. Bruce wouldn't had any say one way or another because of his status as "hired hand".
2. Carl, by the late 80's was probably tired of always fighting Mike over the shows.  He probably gave in in the spirit of "social harmony".  Doesn't excuse his action, but I'm flabbergasted that you aren't even trying to look at it from Carl's (or anyone else's standpoint except for Mike's). I can understand Carl's position.
3. Brian's solo career was already in  full swing. Landy probably thought "ehh. Whatever".
4.Al DID object strongly to cheerleaders and did fight Mike. Hell, he fought Carl too over the repertoire.  I can handle you blaming Carl and Brian (more like grdgingly tolerate), but  you are dead wrong in blaming Al. It was hardly his fault that he was outvoted (if a vote did happen).

Yeah...but what comes around goes around. Al voted with Mike and against Carl and Dennis on countless artistic issues in the mid to late '70's..and that started the dominoes falling directly towards those cheerleaders. He sold out in the '70's and then tried to reverse it in the '90's...too late.

[Aegir]

You guys gotta understand Mike has a thing with cheerleaders - He even married one. 

Two, in fact. One of his first wives was a cheerleader he knew in high school, and he's now currently married to one of the former Beach Boys cheerleaders.

[adamghost]

Mike Love is an interesting fella IMO, and would make a good subject of a psychoanalytic biography. When I've seen him interviewed or camping it up on stage, he always seems on the verge of self-parody, like a very brittle, effeminate version of Mick Jagger. He's probably personable to some degree, but you wouldn't leave your kids with him. Quite funny how Brian gathered the reputation for eccentricity with Mike around. I have a nagging suspicion, that whilst I don't advocate violence in any form, Mike would have benefited from a good slap around the head every now and then. Dennis Wilson obviously thought so.

A fairly down-to-earth person who once was around the Beach Boys quite a bit "back in the day" once said to me, "the problem with Mike is he always took himself so damn seriously."  Which to me was a pretty illuminating statement.

[Dancing Bear]

You guys gotta understand Mike has a thing with cheerleaders - He even married one. 

Two, in fact. One of his first wives was a cheerleader he knew in high school, and he's now currently married to one of the former Beach Boys cheerleaders.

Yeah, but that would ruin a perfect quote of "Brian's Back".